Marriage Builders
Posted By: SidneyT Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 02:31 PM
I think I am in shock right now, and I'm not even really sure where to start.

On Monday of this week, I noticed a very questionable message posted on my husband's Facebook page from a female 'friend'. It said something to the effect, "I didn't mean to make you mad, I just want you to be happy!" When I questioned my husband about this, he denied knowing what it was about. After I made him go look at the message, he told me that she had been at the New Year's party (that he told me was only guys) and that he had smoked pot with her (something truly ridiculous as he was getting ready to start a govt. job) and that this girl had 'encouraged him' to leave his family and pursue writing. He said that, because of the pot, he 'played into it'.

So basically he went from being remorseful about what he did and giving me his Facebook password (for transparency) to CHANGING his password and then....defriending me!!!

He also told me he didn't love me and wanted a separation. He kept throwing things up from the past (years ago) that I have done that have destroyed our marriage and his love for me.

I, and my kids, are all in shock about this because he never mentioned being so unhappy before.

I appreciate any thoughts or feedback.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 03:20 PM
Welcome to MB, Jill.

Has your H actually left? Your thread title suggests so, but your story says he just threatened. Where is he living? What do you know about the other woman (OW)? Is she married? Do they work together? Has he now changed to the govt job? Does she live locally?

See if you can get someone who is still his friend to tell you what is going on on his page.

Please move this thread to the forum Surviving an Affair. You will get help from people used to advising on affairs. Click "notify" and ask a moderator to do this for you.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 03:27 PM
Some other things that have been going on with my H:

1) About two months ago he quit his job out of the blue and hadn't even discussed this with me and he didn't have another job lined up.

2) After quitting his job he took himself on a two week vacation half-way across the country. He saw his brother for 3 days of the trip, otherwise he was alone.

3) He has been very protective of his phone, he sleeps with it and always has it on him. He turned all the ringers to silent so incoming messages won't be heard.

4) He has had huge overages on the phone bill due to texting so much. In Dec. the bill was over $100 extra because of all the texting.

5) He downloaded over $100 worth of music, it was so much that the bank even called him to verify it was him making the charges.

6) He has changed all his passwords: e-mail, phone records, Facebook, etc.

7) The day he moved out he took our computer and switched it out for a brand new one. He said he didn't want me to have any information I would 'use against him'.

8) He told me he just can't be himself with me, can't be who he really is.

9)Has a history of abusing Ambien, keeps filling the prescription even though he knows he abuses it and it causes him to have really strange/frightening behaviors.

10) He finally got a govt. job, but days before he was to start he ended up taking his old job back (the one he quit because he hated it so much).

He, of course, denies an affair and gets outraged that I would even question it.

Please help give me some insight! I feel like I'm dealing with an impulsive, irresponsible teenager instead of a 42 year old man.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 03:32 PM
SugarCane- Thank you so much for responding!

I have asked for this to be moved the the other forum.

Yes, he has moved out. Right now he's staying in a hotel, but he just told me yesterday that he found an apartment in a nearby college town that he will be moving in to.

The OW (which he denies is, of course) lives about 2 hours away. He says she is a 'trouble maker' and that he would never want to have anything to do with her.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 03:39 PM
This all happened in 6 days? There are many red flags in your situation, you need to read up on plan a right away.
Spend as much time as you can reading on the site.

Try as hard as you can to not LB (read) right now.


Also more infomation is needed. M how long? kids how many waht ages?
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 03:48 PM
Yes, this all started just this past Monday after I found the mssg. on FB from another girl.

We have been married 7 1/2 years and have 1 dau. (age 6) together and one dau. (age 14) from my first marriage.

I will start reading. I read a lot on this site years ago (much to his dismay, he hated it) but I need to re-read everything. He even mentioned Marriage Builder's when he said he wanted a separation...how he was sure I'd get on here and everyone would convince me he was having an affair, which he denies!
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:12 PM
Also, I just asked a mutual friend to look at his FB page and she told me he has defriended her, too! He doesn't want me to have access to anything!!!

Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:12 PM
Jill you need to get up to speed on spying.
Can you put a GPS on his car?
Do you have a detailed phone bill with OW's number (its obvious that is who he is texting...)
Do you know OW's name? Can you do some facebook spying? Check out her page, find her friends and friends of friends?
Can you put a keylogger on his new computer? That will capture his passwords....

Collect this information to start. So that you can be ready to expose this affair. There is no doubt he is having an affair.
Its almost ridiculous how obvious he is...

You already know that, right?

His 2 week trip "alone"....BS.
This has been going on much longer than 6 days....
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:15 PM
Jill mentions the New Year party. She does not suggest that the affair has been going on for only six days, just her discovery of FB and his moving out.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:32 PM
Jill, Lexxy is right, your H is having an affair and it has probably been going on for some time. Who is this OW?

Your solution is to quietly snoop and get the goods. Then expose the affair. Stop asking him, and start finding out on your own.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:39 PM
You don't have to get a confession from him.
Like ML said, work AROUND him.
Investigate her, get the details on her.
Find out if she's married or has a boyfriend.
Find out who her family is.

How about his family? Are they likely to support you (emotionally) if he is having an affair? Will they disapprove?

Posted By: reading Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:43 PM
He is having an affair (he is right we would say he is.)

He is partially in denial (if he doesn't outright admit it to you, it doesn't exist and interfer with his fantasy relationship), part of him knows it is wrong though the addict in him will not give up the rush of the affair.

He left and took all incriminating evidence to prevent you from knowing without a doubt the truth.

You can work a plan A when interacting with him to calm him down. He is like a deer caught in a trap. Knows there is no easy way out.

Plan A and then once you have the love built a wee bit back (it will take some time) you can be in a position to decide on the plan B timing, etc.

Lure him back towards you and the kids and then there is a more even playing field.

My 2cents

Posted By: Miss M Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:46 PM
If your WS has mentioned MB, I am pretty sure he has been on here and armed himself with a lot of the info here about proving an affair and has changed all passwords, gotten a new computer to prevent you from proving he is having an affair.

He is also gaslighting you.

Sorry to see you here, but welcome.

You will get a lot of good advice here.

Best wishes,

Love in Christ,
Miss M
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 04:50 PM
Not that it is any justification, but can you tell us he is saying about your treatment of him over the years?

I'm not saying that you were bad to him at all. I am well aware that waywards need to find justification for behaving immorally, and so they look back on the marriage and say it was terrible, it is all the BS's fault and nothing can be done now. We should ask them why they never communicated this before an OP came on the scene.

Also, was either of you married when you met?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:03 PM
If Jill Mack is your real life name, change your posting name.
Posted By: Soolee Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:06 PM
I'm just curious what brought you here over 6 years ago when you registered? Not that it matters, but was there a problem then as well?
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:07 PM
As far as the spying, he has basically made it impossible for me to do so right now. He has changed his passwords, he put the phone in his name and changed the on-line billing access so I no longer can view it, he took all the old phone bills and he removed the computer from our home.

As far as what he's throwing in my face: When we first married I had previously been cheated on by my first husband. My DH was a person that had a LOT of female friends. He is a marriage and family therapist, so he not only worked with a lot of females, he took great delight in being the 'go-to' guy for them when they needed advice. When we got married I told him I needed very firm boundaries and I needed to know that we would not be maintaining close relationships with people of the oppisite sex. This is basically what started about two years of fighting between us. I never felt secure with him and I always felt he was hiding stuff from me. I became very jealous and suspicious, which was conviently then the focus of our problems instead of what was and was not being done to make me feel secure. That's when I started visiting on here. He also had (and has) a very close male friend that he spends hours talking to on the phone. I have resented this because I can see a direct coorelation between the time he spends talking to this friend and the quality of our relationship declining.

We went through a lot of marriage counseling and I felt like we finally got to a good place. I felt secure and confident in the boundaries he had with other women and I felt like we had moved on to a better place in our marriage. That's why I was so surprised when he started throwing this all up in my face again. I had started to feel a little uncomfortable when he got Face Book (about 4 months ago) and the sheer number of young, single girls he felt he needed to be friends with. When we had our fight on Monday he mentioned that he is a person that likes to have close female friends more than male friends and that when he is married to me he knows he can't have that. He can't 'be himself'.

And no, neither of us were married when we met. I had been divorced for 3 years when we met and he was single, never married before.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:18 PM
What is gaslighting?

I really appreciate all of your feedback. Thanks so much.
Sorry you're here Jill. Just a suggestion...If you know the OW's name, go copy all her FB friends onto a word doc; I'd also try to find any other of WH known friends' FB's and see if any friends are the same. Have you tried opening a new FB account? if he blocked you and didn't deactivate his acct, maybe you can still view his friends. Is OW married?

Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
What is gaslighting?



gaslighting <~~~ LINK

a simple google search ...
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:26 PM
OW is not married. She's someone he went to high school with and who he describes as a 'trouble maker'. He swears she would be the last person he would want anything to do with.

After she posted that mssg. on his FB he said he was so mad he told her he didn't 'need this kind of drama' and he said he defriended her as well.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
What is gaslighting?



gaslighting <~~~ LINK

a simple google search ...

Thank you. I searched on this site and didn't see it. I wanted to make sure I had MB's definition in case it was different from Google's.
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
OW is not married. She's someone he went to high school with and who he describes as a 'trouble maker'. He swears she would be the last person he would want anything to do with.

After she posted that mssg. on his FB he said he was so mad he told her he didn't 'need this kind of drama' and he said he defriended her as well.

He is definitely in an affair. Removing her from his friends list means nothing. My Wxh removed my cousin and they just took their conversatons to Yahoo chat.

However, it is possible that this FB friend is NOT the OW he is in an affair with. Might explain why he is ticked at her for bring suspicion upon him about his real affair.

Can you get access to his phone records before he switched them to his name only?
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 05:47 PM
I have wondered if there is someone else besides the girl from FB. He also struck up a friendship with a female from his past that he used to be romantically interested in (they were very good friends, but apparently never officially dated). I discovered this about two weeks ago and that was a source of friction between us. I told him it seemed like a really unwise step to seek out old female friends at a time when he was not feeling good about himself(from being unemployed for over two months). That particular friend is married.

Unfortunately there is now no way for me to get his phone records since he took all of the bills with him when he moved out.

One thing that might happen is that I could get a paper phone bill in the mail for this past month. I wouldn't be surprised if he requested to cancel paper bills and have it all on line. He's been very thorough.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 06:01 PM
Sounds like you need to hire a PI, Jill. I am so sorry for your pain.

God's blessings,

Say
Was your name previously on the phone bill? You could call the phone co. And tell them you need the phone records from when your name was on the account. Same thing with bank records.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 06:35 PM
The phone bill never has been in my name, although I paid for it out of my bank acct. After months of telling DH that he needed to watch the # of text messages, I finally reached a point (after having the bill be over $100 more than usual) of telling him he was to take over payment of it all.

Our bank accounts have always been separate.

What amazes me is how he can now act as if nothing in the world is wrong. He almost acts cheerful and offers to shovel the drive, get groceries, etc. I am so mad and disgusted right now I can barely even stand to look at him.
His behavior sounds very much like my WH. I think the "nice" gestures are a way of appeasing his guilt; except my WH would alternate between the "nice, cheerful" guy and an evil vindictive demon sort. I also think they are trying to look like the good guy. JMHO
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 07:01 PM
I think you're exactly right. Before this all came out he had been really short-tempered and irritable around the house, more than usual. It was very uncomfortable to be around him the past couple of weeks. And the kicker is that he walked out the day I came home from having a surgery! He tried to explain to my mother that he hadn't planned on doing that and had planned on helping me out. Trying to sounds like a good guy even though the facts show otherwise.

I have been keeping his mother informed about everything I know. She's very shocked but supportive of me and the kids. I have no idea what he has told her, but I'm fairly certain it involved putting all of the blame on me.

She's a psychologist, so I think she 'gets it' better than most people. Plus, she's been through this with my DH's father (her ex for many years), who had an affair and has always been a very miserable person.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Jill mentions the New Year party. She does not suggest that the affair has been going on for only six days, just her discovery of FB and his moving out.

Obviously.

If he went from electronic disclosure to underground, home to hotel to an aparartment lease in just a few days, I'd bet he is flip flopping all over the place and does not know what the heck he's doing. I wouldn't put much thought/worry into what he is saying right now, I bet he is going to change back and forth quite a few times.

Do you think his actions are "trying to teach you a lesson" from snooping on him in the first place? Childish I know.

This still does no change the fact the you need to read, find out the best snooping procedures (so an opportunity does not present itself and go undone) car phone/gps, computer keylogger, account numbers and records-- you need to educate yourself on this stuff.

Yep, the irritability before leaving was the same for me; except I thought it was stress form his deployment. Also lots of support from MIL. Also lots of lies and exaggerated truths being told about me so WH can look good and I can look bad.

I would bet money that your WH is having an affair. It took me 3 months of searching to find out for sure who it was, but keep in mind my WH affair was taking place halfway across the country. Also, it turned out it wasn't who I first suspected.

You have the benfit that it is much closer to home. Find out who it is for sure and then expose it.

I spent 3 months feeling helpless. It may sound weird, but i feel better knowing; not so helpless, I'm no longr wondering in the back of my head if I'm imagining it.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 07:52 PM
I'm not being very clear.

I think Jill knows very well that her H is having an affair. I think she was saying that she has evidence that it goes at least as far back as the New Year party. She was not saying that it has only happened in the last 6 days.

I think she is bewildered at how he could deny the FB entry on Monday and have moved out by Friday. I don't think she is bewildered about whether there is an affair, or what an affair is, but about how her life could have turned upside down in 4-5 days.

I don't think she is looking for us to tell her he is having an affair, but for help with what to do now.

Sorry Jill, to speak for you, but I am trying to clarify my own statement. If I am wrong about your knowledge, please tell me.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 08:06 PM
So my 7 year old dau. just came back from spending the night in a hotel (with a pool, of course) with DH. She came home dressed head to toe in new clothes, new gifts, pizza and ice -cream. She was so excited about her new 'princess bed' that daddy bought her for his 'new home'.

I know the Disney Land dad thing is going to happen, but wow...he didn't hold back on this!

Now he wants to know when he can see her again. I told him next weekend. He wanted her to stay the night with him during the week and I said no, it's too disruptive to her schedule. Besides the fact that he is chronically late for everything (she'd be late to school) her school is over 45 minutes away from where he's staying.

I don't know where to go from here.
Posted By: reneem Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 08:13 PM
I feel your pain. My husband and I have been married 9 years and were high school sweethearts. He all the sudden one day told me he didnt love me anymore and that there was no hope for us. We've had communication problems at times and focused so much on our two little boys but he just gave up one day and acted like he hated me all the sudden. I've been a mess and this has been going on for 10 weeks. He's been staying at his parents house and just found out this Monday that he was having an affair with the girl up the road, who we all knew, she's just turned 22 and he's 34. I don't get it! I confronted him about the message I heard and he didn't know what to say. I've been waiting to see what he may say to me, praying he's sorry and wants to finally try counseling or something but he hasn't done anything. He came to get the boys last night to go swimming and thanked me for letting him have them. I don't know what to do. I'm wanting to try to make the marriage work before he gets a divorce, or if he has.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 08:31 PM
((((Jill)))),

I am so sorry you are here. Of course you are in SHOCK.....you have just been dealt the 2 of clubs in your poker hand!!!...I suspect a dirty dealer.

BUT, since you came here, you have a whole arsenal of weapons at your disposal. That's the good news.....

I second Mel's advice. You need to snoop, snoop, spy and snoop some more. I feel for you. I was in exactly the same position 2 yrs ago. My H moved out, I had NO CLUE what was going on, H had spun me a story so good, I couldn't find info. for nearly 4 months. DROVE ME BATTY!!!!

Of course, he was threatening me with everything under the sun in order to get me not to snoop...and it worked....for awhile.....then the good people here helped me out, and with some major good snooping, a little luck, well, I got EVERYTHING......

First off, you said you have a DD14...does she have a FB page???....If so, has he friended her???...if she doesn't, well it might be a good time to let her have one..... wink. He probably won't friend her, but that's okay, it just puts HIM in an akward position. Try it anyway....

Second, get a GPS on his car. This is much cheaper than the PI route. You can track his where abouts.

Third, if you still have set of keys to his car (mine took my set, so this didn't help me, but I'm looking for holes here....), put in a VAR (voice activated recorder).

The GPS won't need a second set of keys, so that you can do anyway. Then plan for a weekend when you and some friends can follow him.

Next up, is meeting his EN'S. Do you know what they are?? Read up on here about them and try to figure them out. It is important that you do this part. You want to make the home a warm and inviting place. A place he misses and WANTS to come back to......

And lastly, take care of yourself. I know it is hard to get any sleep and to remember to eat. But you need to keep up your strength. You have two wonderful girls who need their mom......

Hang in there....the road is only beginning

not2fun
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 09:30 PM
Thank you all again for the advice and support. And yes, I think I am convinced there is an affair (it's all staring me right in the face), it's just hard to get past the 'what if's' that he planted in my mind where he blames me for his misery and leaving. Going from Monday discovering the FB mssg. from OW to Wed. him moving out has left my head spinning.

Since he is aware of MB he already knows all of the tricks to discover things...I actually tried the Voice Recorder thing years ago and he found it. He is now living in a different town so it would be harder to put the GPS thing on his vehicle, but it could be done.

As far as emotional needs, that's tough. Like I said I am so disgusted with him right now I cannot even look at him. I have changed our locks and I will no longer let him in our house. I felt I had to do that after he removed our computer from our home...I had no way of knowing what else he would take from the house. Maybe that's wrong and I should be welcoming him with open arms. Honestly, I'm just not there yet and don't know if I'll ever be.

Again, thank you so much for validating what I have seen right before my eyes (but what has been twisted around with crazy-making and denial). I'm so grateful for all the support and information!

Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/30/10 09:52 PM
Jill,

Every betrayed spouse (BS) who comes here has the choice to make over whether they wish to try to save their marriage or not. If you decide you'd rather not, that's your decision and no one will blame you for it or hold it against you.

In fact, after coming here and working with the great 'veterans' who've seen and done it all, I came to the realization that "recovery" for me meant NOT staying in the marriage, but to work on becoming a better person. I am pursuing that goal even now.

This site is Marriage Builders. If you want to try to save your marriage, this is the best bet going. No guarantees, of course. But if you give it your all, you'll find peace knowing you did everything you could. And that alone is worth the effort!

Dealing with someone who knows MB and the concepts will make it tricky but not impossible. The one thing that has become apparent to me is that waywards screw up. After all, isn't that what an affair is in the first place? Your husband is no different. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. There are "pros" here who will tell you how to work around the defenses he's erected. And he WILL screw up.

Hang in there, Jill (by the way, I second the notion that you might want to change your handle if that's your real name). He's won Round One right now. But this is a title bout, and you're stronger than that!
Quote
She's a psychologist, so I think she 'gets it' better than most people. Plus, she's been through this with my DH's father (her ex for many years), who had an affair and has always been a very miserable person.

So like Father like son? sounds like your H actually has the same genetic makeup as his dad, which doesn't bode well for success. . .

I would think that his FOO family of origin is his real issue, and not you. . . he is just acting out the same behaviors which are in his genetics. . .

sorry, best to procedd straight to lawyer to get him a quick dose of reality before it gets way too wierd

wiftty
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by WhenIfindthetime
Quote
She's a psychologist, so I think she 'gets it' better than most people. Plus, she's been through this with my DH's father (her ex for many years), who had an affair and has always been a very miserable person.

So like Father like son? sounds like your H actually has the same genetic makeup as his dad, which doesn't bode well for success. . .

I would think that his FOO family of origin is his real issue, and not you. . . he is just acting out the same behaviors which are in his genetics. . .

sorry, best to procedd straight to lawyer to get him a quick dose of reality before it gets way too wierd

wiftty
All of us have half the genetic make-up of our fathers! What an odd statement.

However, I have never seen evidence that having an affair is genetically determined. Certainly, there seem to be social and cultural factors which might make infidelity more or less acceptable. In France, as I understand it, it is not frowned upon for a man to have a discreet mistress in an otherwise happy marriage. In societies such as the UK and USA, where traditional marriage is in long-term decline, we seem to have lost the sense of disgrace attached to an affair (in my view). Here, affairs might well appear in different branches of a family.

If families have tolerated affairs in one generation it might be easier for the next to have them, but affairs are not genetic, as far as I know.

Jill should be encouraged to think about whether to attempt reconciliation or whether to let this marriage go, but her H's genetics are not an issue. Dr Harley does not base his advice around that factor at all.

Jill came to MB, so rebuilding her marriage must be the way she is leaning at the moment. She should not be told to divorce now because her H's father had an affair.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 09:55 PM
I am really surprised by my feelings right now. Of course I'm hurt and angry, but the one feeling I didn't plan on having is ...relieved???

I'm just wondering if this is common, this early in a separation (remember, I just found out H wanted a separation this Monday and he moved out two days later on Wed.)???

Of course I have so much confusion about everything since it all seems so out of the blue, but I am really shocked by how I almost feel relieved that he is gone (he has been so moody, irritable and selfish for a really long time) and the lack of interest I have in trying to 'fix' anything right now.

Just wondering if these are common feelings at this stage or if this reveals something deeper, like a marriage that isn't really worth saving anyway?
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 10:50 PM
FWIW Jill, I had that same feeling and also felt guilty about it. There were a lot of other emotions too, and most of them were in the forefront, but I knew inside me there was a small corner that felt relief.

Looking back, I know now that what I felt was a sense of liberation. For so long I had been "walking on eggshells" and letting myself be emotionally tortured by my wife.

Call it my co-dependency. I wanted to make her happy and not make her angry. I had gotten to know her "hot buttons" and tried to stay clear of them. Because when she was triggered, her wrath, although not loud and violent, was intense and focused. On me.

When she left, I knew I didn't have to suffer from the emotional battering I had unknowingly allowed myself to be subjected to.

It's now been three months. I'm in the darkest of Plan B's right now, and I can tell you that I'm actually sleeping better now, and I have no problem keeping my own company!
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
FWIW Jill, I had that same feeling and also felt guilty about it. There were a lot of other emotions too, and most of them were in the forefront, but I knew inside me there was a small corner that felt relief.

Looking back, I know now that what I felt was a sense of liberation. For so long I had been "walking on eggshells" and letting myself be emotionally tortured by my wife.

Call it my co-dependency. I wanted to make her happy and not make her angry. I had gotten to know her "hot buttons" and tried to stay clear of them. Because when she was triggered, her wrath, although not loud and violent, was intense and focused. On me.

When she left, I knew I didn't have to suffer from the emotional battering I had unknowingly allowed myself to be subjected to.

It's now been three months. I'm in the darkest of Plan B's right now, and I can tell you that I'm actually sleeping better now, and I have no problem keeping my own company!

Wow, this post is stunning because it describes me to a "T". The eggshells, the wrath, etc. It had gotten to the point where it was just easier to keep all my feelings inside because it wasn't worth the anger that was sure to follow if I were to dare share anything that he didn't like.

His mother just e-mailed me (the psychologist that I thought 'got it'). She says she does not believe he is having an affair and is only guilty of showing "poor judgement" by smoking pot with the other girl. In other words, she is believing everything he has told her (that his reason for leaving is my fault). I shouldn't be surprised by that, but I am disappointed and hurt.

Maybe my own pride, if nothing else, will prompt me to want to get a P.I. to find the truth. I honestly feel like he has cut off all other ways for me to spy or get info. on him without going this route.

And in honor of crazy-making, is it possible that he in fact was just so miserable with me that he did want to leave and found this facebook discovery the easiest route to go, without having an affair??? And is it possible he covered up all his tracks so well not because he had anything to hide, but rather because he's familiar with MB and didn't want me to 'read into' anything???
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 11:27 PM
Peace of mind is priceless, Jill. Get the PI and yes, anything is possible with a wayward but you will make yourself crazy trying to figure out his motives.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
Wow, this post is stunning because it describes me to a "T". The eggshells, the wrath, etc. It had gotten to the point where it was just easier to keep all my feelings inside because it wasn't worth the anger that was sure to follow if I were to dare share anything that he didn't like.

His mother just e-mailed me (the psychologist that I thought 'got it'). She says she does not believe he is having an affair and is only guilty of showing "poor judgement" by smoking pot with the other girl. In other words, she is believing everything he has told her (that his reason for leaving is my fault). I shouldn't be surprised by that, but I am disappointed and hurt.

Maybe my own pride, if nothing else, will prompt me to want to get a P.I. to find the truth. I honestly feel like he has cut off all other ways for me to spy or get info. on him without going this route.

And in honor of crazy-making, is it possible that he in fact was just so miserable with me that he did want to leave and found this facebook discovery the easiest route to go, without having an affair??? And is it possible he covered up all his tracks so well not because he had anything to hide, but rather because he's familiar with MB and didn't want me to 'read into' anything???
At the risk of incurring the wrath of the marriagebuilders here, if you think your experience is similar to mine, I can only offer you the same advice that I received:

Check out the possibility that your H has a personality disorder. Wouldn't that be something for his psychologist mother???

A few resources links:There are others, but these might open your eyes a bit...
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by saynomore
Peace of mind is priceless, Jill. Get the PI and yes, anything is possible with a wayward but you will make yourself crazy trying to figure out his motives.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thank you. I'm wondering how a PI would be able to track anything if it's all long-distance and/or online? I feel like a lot of our problems started after my H got Facebook and started reconnecting with all those long lost 'friends'.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 01/31/10 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
Originally Posted by saynomore
Peace of mind is priceless, Jill. Get the PI and yes, anything is possible with a wayward but you will make yourself crazy trying to figure out his motives.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thank you. I'm wondering how a PI would be able to track anything if it's all long-distance and/or online? I feel like a lot of our problems started after my H got Facebook and started reconnecting with all those long lost 'friends'.
Jill, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

If Facebook is a key, you can use it effectively in exposing...
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/01/10 12:27 AM
He is definitely having an affair, you just haven't figured out with who yet. I would recommend you take the following steps:

1) Hire a PI. I'm sure a PI can follow him and find out with who. They are professionals.

2) Expose. Once you have proof of his affair, his mother will be a whole lot more willing to put pressure on your husband. Ditto for other people. That is why he is being so secretive. He knows getting found out and having his affair exposed will ruin it.

3) File for legal separation if your state allows it. You want him to get hit hard, real hard. Nothing to throw cold water on an affair like real world consequences he hadn't thought of. Get custody firmed up, get support removed directly from his paycheck, make him pay for legal bills, protect your own finances. Right now he thinks he can walk all over you. Let him know that will not be the case.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/01/10 01:24 AM
Wow Fred, the personality disorder is an issue that has come up again and again in this marriage (I am actually a Clinician). Early on in our marriage I was convinced he was Borderline PD, but of course I never got very far in getting any help with that, and he resented the heck out of me even bringing that up. I'm sure he's at least BiPolar with OCD tendancies. His father is Narcissistic PD, which I've often wondered if H shares some traits with as well.

And Jim, thank you for that very specific and excellent advice. I'm reluctant to tell exactly what I'm planning to do, as I'm not convinced he's not on here following what my next move will be, but let's just say that is very helpful and I will tell more at a later time.

Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/01/10 04:10 PM
Do you all recommend I contact the the girl via FB (the one he partied with and who encouraged him to leave his family) and ask her what happened the night they were together?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/01/10 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
Do you all recommend I contact the the girl via FB (the one he partied with and who encouraged him to leave his family) and ask her what happened the night they were together?

Do you think you can discern truth from lies from a complete stranger on FB?
I'm pretty certain I couldn't.
Hire a PI.
You'll need a reliable source for facts.

Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/02/10 12:42 AM
Ok, I won't bother with possible OW then. Thanks.

I have another question. When my H changed out our computers and installed a brand new one in our house before he left, is it possible he could have put some kind of keylogger or tracer on it without me knowing? Could he get access to to that kind of thing long-distance? Is there any way I can tell on my computer?

Sorry if these questions are ridiculous. I am really struggling on focusing and trying to read as much as possible, it's just been very difficult. Between the shock of all this and trying to recover from the surgery I just had, I am struggling to focus.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/02/10 01:12 AM
Oh, it's very possible, Jill, and yes, keyloggers can be set to send the results to a remote email account. Your H could indeed be tracking everything you write.

I think that the very sophisticated keyloggers need specialist detection. You might have to take the PC to the shop and pay for this.

Others know more about the technical side, but as to the possibility - yes.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/02/10 01:48 AM
Oh wow, another thing to worry about.

Is it usual for cheaters to be interested enough to do something like this, or do they just usually worry about covering up their own tracks and getting out?

He is very litigtion-minded...(narcissistic father was attorney who made his career out of suing people) so maybe he's 'collecting evidence'????
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/02/10 02:00 AM
Well, you first asked whether it was possible, not whether it was usual.

I wouldn't say that it is usual, based on the many stories I have read here, nor is it likely, exactly.

It is more "usual" for a WS to go to great lengths to avoid being caught, and if they are technologically aware, to search for the BS's keylogger, and disable it. Alternatively, they will stop using the home PC. You can always find a PC to use elsewhere!

I have never read of a WS removing the existing PC and leaving behind a brand new one with a spying device.

However, it is possible that this is what he has done, and also, your H is familiar with this website, so it is likely that he is reading here..
Geez, I wish I'd have known that sooner.
I had a crazy thought...if all the MB'ers pooled thier expertise and spying techniques we could open a chain of P.I. agencies around the world. It would be like the McD's of spying. I dunno, I have weird thoughts sometimes...
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/02/10 02:48 AM
That has already happened.

A poster in Australia couldn't afford a PI in one of the US states, where her H was working. A poster here volunteered to spy, and got photos of H and OW together in a public place.

I don't know what happened after that.
Posted By: Miss M Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/02/10 07:33 AM
If your WS has mentioned MB, I am pretty sure he has been on here and armed himself with a lot of the info here about proving an affair and has changed all passwords, gotten a new computer to prevent you from proving he is having an affair.

Just a reminder of what I posted to you earlier.

Also ITA with SugarCane.

I have never read of a WS removing the existing PC and leaving behind a brand new one with a spying device.

However, it is possible that this is what he has done, and also, your H is familiar with this website, so it is likely that he is reading here..

Is there some way you can check the new computer to see if it has spyware?

Love in Christ,
Miss M
Hi JM,
I'm jumping in because I can relate to your story. I put up with increasing hostility and distance for almost 8 months before I was blindsided with a WAH and then discovering an A.
You are getting great advice and support here.

You are relieved because you now know you are not crazy, you know the hostility you have been dealing with are not because of you. WAS's cook up all kinds of "reasons" to justify their behavior. I was told, I was a bad wife, mother, housekeeper, you name it. I took these complaints to heart, and still sometimes wonder but I know intellectually these complaints are NOT valid.

The "gaslighting" is crazy-making! You are free of that now that he is gone. Being lied to by the person you trust most is hard to accept. His perceptions of reality are twisted right now and it is best you do not believe anything he says and hardly anything he does. You cannot reason with a irrational person (unless maybe if you are trained in cognitive behavioral therapy).

Here is a list of distorted thinking patterns. We all use them from time to time.
They are called distorted thinking, due to their irrational nature. Most of the time we use them unknowingly, therefore, by becoming more aware of our own distorted beliefs, we can rationally challenge the beliefs and change. Upon changing, our mood can positively change as well. Being able to identify them in you H, will free you to move forward.

1. Filtering: You take the negative details and magnify them while filtering out all positive aspects of a
situation.

2. Polarized Thinking: Things are black or white, good or bad. You have to be perfect or you are a failure.
There is no middle ground.

3. Overgeneralization: You come to a general conclusion based on a single incident or piece of evidence. If something bad happens once you expect it to happen over and over again.

4. Mind Reading: Without their saying so, you know what people are feeling and why they act the way they do.
In particular, you are able to divine how people are feeling toward you.

5. Catastrophizing: You expect disaster. You notice or hear about a problem and start the what game: What if
tragedy strikes? What if it happens to you?

6. Personalization: Thinking that everything people do or say is some kind of reaction to you. You also
compare yourself to others, trying to determine who is smarter, better looking, etc.

7. Control Fallacies: If you feel externally controlled, you see yourself as helpless, a victim of fate.
The fallacy of internal control has you responsible for the pain and happiness of everyone around you.

8. Fallacy of Fairness: You feel resentful because you think you know what is fair but other people will not agree with you.

9. Blaming: You hold other people responsible for your pain. Or take the other tack and blame yourself for
every problem or reversal.

10. Shoulds: You have a list of ironclad rules about how you and other people should act. People who break the
rules anger you and you feel guilty if you violate the rules.

11. Emotional Reasoning: You believe that what you feel must be true-automatically. If you feel stupid and
boring, then you must be stupid and boring.

12. Fallacy of Change: You expect that other people will change to suit you if you just pressure them enough.
You need to change people because your hopes for happiness seem to depend entirely on them.

13. Global Labeling: You generalize one or two qualities into a negative global judgment.

14. Being Right: You are continually on trial to prove that your opinions and actions are correct. Being wrong is unthinkable and you will go to any length to demonstrate your rightness.

15. Heavenly Reward Fallacy: You expect all your sacrifice and self-denial to pay-off, as if there were someone keeping score. You feel bitter when the reward does not come.

16. Passive Thinking: You believe that your wants, needs and rights are not important enough to assert with others.

Also, you need to know exactly what you are dealing with. Do you have a friend that can follow him for a few days or rent a car and do it yourself? I would advise Not confronting H with what you find right away. You will need multiple sources/instances because they tend to try to continue gaslighting with only one or two pieces of "evidence". Try to get the whole story first.

Then you can make a plan and we will help you!
T/J-- TAG - this is GREAT info... in fact I copied it to my notes on Facebook because there are some others in my life who need to see it. (Is that distorted thinking? lol)

End T/J
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/02/10 11:18 PM
throughagrinder...WOW, what an amazing post full of invaluable information. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you, and all the others, that have posted on here!!!

Thank you so much! I'm reading and re-reading everything!

I just think of all the people out there that have this happen to them and don't know about this website....and believe all the lies and bull they are told!
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 02:35 PM
So my H just left me a mssg. saying he has filed for legal separation and I should be getting the papers in the mail either today or tomorrow.

I made an appt. with a lawyer soon after he left, however they were not able to get me in until next week.

Does it make any difference that he filed before I did? Is it common for Waywards to do this so soon after leaving?
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
So my H just left me a mssg. saying he has filed for legal separation and I should be getting the papers in the mail either today or tomorrow.

I made an appt. with a lawyer soon after he left, however they were not able to get me in until next week.

Does it make any difference that he filed before I did? Is it common for Waywards to do this so soon after leaving?
Jill, where do you live? Some states don't even recognize "legal separation," so this could be just a smokescreen.

My sense is that waywards go one of two ways regarding separation: They either talk a big game and then never do anything, or they file right away.

Remember, filing means nothing. In some cases it can set the ground rules for property and child support for future consideration, but it is not a divorce (which my attorney made perfectly clear to me when The Leopard and I put together our Separation and Property Settlement Agreement. Incidentally, Virginia is one of those states that does not recognize "legal separaion").
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 03:00 PM
I'm in KS.

I think he wanted to make sure that he gets to see our daughter (even though I have been fine with letting him see her when he wants to) and he said this would help 'map out visitation for Holidays, etc."

I also wonder if this helps him to feel even more removed from being married, thus making his affair seem a little more 'ok'.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
I'm in KS.

I think he wanted to make sure that he gets to see our daughter (even though I have been fine with letting him see her when he wants to) and he said this would help 'map out visitation for Holidays, etc."

I also wonder if this helps him to feel even more removed from being married, thus making his affair seem a little more 'ok'.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I know for a fact that my WW seems to think that being "legally separated" grants her immunity from sleeping with someone else.

It's all bullch!t.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
I can't speak for anyone else, but I know for a fact that my WW seems to think that being "legally separated" grants her immunity from sleeping with someone else.

It's all bullch!t.

Yep, just as I suspected in my case as well. Thanks for the input.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 03:48 PM
Get a good lawyer and hit him hard. Get as much custody as you can (you can always let him see the kids more than custody calls for) and get the child and spousal support deducted straight from his paycheck. Make him pay for legal fees as well. You want this separation to be as uncomfortable as possible. This is his "trial" to see what getting divorced will feel like. Let him know the grass isn't greener. At the very least it will put a strain on his affair.
Posted By: LostHusband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 04:14 PM
Jill, I can't speak for all of KS but I can speak for the Salina courts which unless your in KC should be par for the course. I have no knowledge about legal seperation. But likely your atty will file an answer to his petition which will outline a bit of your case. From there y'all will have an initial appearance at which time "Temporary Orders" will be argued and issued for custody and support. Kansas changed their support laws about 4 years ago and the HIGHLY favor the custodial parent with little regard to time spent with the non-custodial as was the case before. The chances of him being the custodial parent or 50/50 custody are almost nil unless you're nuts and/or you agree to that. Around here he would likely get every other weekend and a weekday evening. Of course this is all subject to the Judges temperment which your atty should be able to advise you of. Then y'all will be ordered to Mediation, this is where the real work can be done. A good mediator is priceless.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 06:56 PM
Wow, I just had another thought.

My husband is very familiar with a lot of the lawyers and judges in town, as he does a lot of testifying for his job. They have always liked him because he is very thourough in testifying, and they tell him so.

He has made friends with many of them between hearings. This cannot be good for me.

One thing that I do have going for me right now is that he seems to just want OUT and doesn't really seem to care about personal posessions or money at this point. I know the fog can do that, and I also know that he might not always be so non-chalant (sp?) about it.

Again, thank you all for the input. It's really helpful!
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 07:22 PM
And by the way, have I mentioned that my husband is a Marriage and Family Therapist????

What a flippin' joke!!! mad
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
And by the way, have I mentioned that my husband is a Marriage and Family Therapist????

What a flippin' joke!!! mad
My wife was a substance abuse counselor. A lot of the counselors there had problems with overeating, prescription medicines, and just "stinkin' thinkin'."

The number of "counselors" in almost any helping profession who have issues far surpassing those of their clients is inordinately high. I think it's because they start defining themselves by what they do and not by who they are.

And I say this as one who spent more than 18 years as a non-clinical volunteer in a treatment center.

EDIT: Some of the reading and studying I have done as the result of my own marital meltdown suggests that a higher percentage of Borderline Personality Disordered and Sociopathic people find their way into the "helping professions." {Shudder}
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/05/10 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
And by the way, have I mentioned that my husband is a Marriage and Family Therapist????

What a flippin' joke!!! mad

Report him to the board.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 05:13 PM
Well, I got the paperwork. Only this paperwork doesn't say anything about a 'legal separtion', as my H said. It says 'Petition for Divorce'!

It also says he agrees to pay $400 a month....and that's it. The rest of EVERYTHING (house, bills, etc.) is all left for me to pay! Please tell me that a man cannot just decide to go get himself a new apartment and a new lover and walk away from his family only paying $400???

I see my lawyer on Thursday.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
Well, I got the paperwork. Only this paperwork doesn't say anything about a 'legal separtion', as my H said. It says 'Petition for Divorce'!

It also says he agrees to pay $400 a month....and that's it. The rest of EVERYTHING (house, bills, etc.) is all left for me to pay! Please tell me that a man cannot just decide to go get himself a new apartment and a new lover and walk away from his family only paying $400???

I see my lawyer on Thursday.

You were nice for long enough. Now it's time to show him exactly how much he will have to pay monthly to walk away. Hopefully, the single life won't feel as enticing if he realizes he'll be broke.

Again, as I said before. Your husband needs to be reported to the boards that he is accredited with. There is no way this man should be counseling other couples right now.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 05:24 PM
Jim, I will have to have solid proof before I report anything. But believe me, once I do I will not be holding back on my findings! This includes at his job, which is a Christian based corp. and would likely find an affair VERY distasteful.

As far as the divorce papers, will most lawyers (and judges) think his offer is as ridiculous as I do? Abandoning his family and paying only $400?

Also I've been wondering, are lawyers generally in favor of their clients hiring PI's? Are they good at recommending who's the best?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
Also I've been wondering, are lawyers generally in favor of their clients hiring PI's? Are they good at recommending who's the best?

It depends what state you are in. If you are in an at fault state, definitely, but in some no-fault states it doesn't even matter, so they figure why bother.

I'm sure some attorney's know some good PI's. I forgot that you had no proof of an affair yet. He's defitely in one, so I would get a PI so you have proof for your exposure.

And yes, $400 is a ludicrous amount. I forgot how many kids you have, but in reality, you should get over 50% of his income. That is, if he even has an income after you expose what you find.

In my opinion, he's really trying to protect the person he's having an affair with. He knows exposure will absolutely kill the affair. Maybe it is someone at this "Christian based organization" who he works with and knows they would lose both their jobs.
Posted By: LostHusband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 05:43 PM
Jill, Kansas is a no-fault state so PI stuff really doesn't matter. Depending on length of marriage and your ability to obtain gainful employment, Allimony may or may not be available for a period of time. As far as Child Support, there is a formula that is set up for that. Make sure you have copies of income taxes for the last couple of years as well as W-2's for this year if you can get them.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 06:07 PM
Thanks Bill. My H took all the income tax info. with him when he left. I do have his W-2's that came in the mail since he's been gone, can I legally open them and take them to my lawyer's? Also, keep in mind he quit his job (out of the blue) and was unemployed for 2 1/2 months before going back to the job he quit, so that will effect what his earnings look like, right?

I have a job and actually make more than he does, will that effect what he has to pay? I just can't get over the fact that he can abandon his family and not have to be responsible for any of our JOINT bills...like the mortgage.

And that's too bad about the no-fault state. I'm still going to get the PI for peace of mind, though.

I really appreciate all your input.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 06:14 PM
He's on the hook for the half the marital debt.

Getting a PI might not make much difference in the divorce, but it might make a difference for exposure, ending the affair, and saving her family.
If you filed joint returns, you can request a copy of the returns from IRS. If you paid a tax preparer to fill out your returns, you may be able to get copies from the preparer.
Posted By: LostHusband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
I have a job and actually make more than he does, will that effect what he has to pay?

Like others said, he will be on the hook for 1/2 of the Marital Debt unless y'all come up with some other solution in mediation. And yes, you having an income will be a factor in how the establish child support. If he was unemployed for 2.5 months last year then it's very important that you try to get the past two years worth of W-2's, if you can't get them, that's ok because your lawyer will request that his lawyer provide that information. His side would likely try to take that 9.5 months worth of money and state that as his yearly salary, but if you have a bulldog atty, that can be overcame. Basically what they do in Kansas is put what each party makes down on a worksheet that establishes the joint standard of living. Based upon that standard of living they determine what is spent on an average child from a household with that income. Then it's split out based on percentages of income with consideration to who pays for the insurance. Further, a percentage of liability is arrived at to cover uncovered medical/dental expenses.

As an example, I make around 65k, my eX makes around 35k so our standard of living is that of a family making 100k. Going by proportions I should contribute like 650/per month per child and she should contribute like 350, however I also pay approx 100 per month/per child for health care. Since she is the residentual parent I pay her around 550 per month per child and am responsible for 64.7% of all unpaid medical/dental.

As far as marital debt, we divorced back in '01 and did all of that through mediation. But in the end I took more of the debt but kept more of the assets.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/09/10 10:07 PM
With all this D talk, I just want to point out, your WH might not pursue this if you can find out who OW is and let exposure kill the affair. Since your WH is being SOOO secretive, I have to believe that he knows exposure will kill the affair. He's trying to get divorced before he is found out, so it seems like their relationship started out "legitimately." Look at work. That would be my first guess.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 01:59 AM
Thank you all for this info! Bill, I am praying that I have a bulldog lawyer...I guess I'll find out on Thursday!

And Jim, I am actually thinking more about work now, too (for the OW). He very abruptly (without talking to me) quit his job in Nov. and said he was unhappy there.

Then, the day after he told me he wanted a separation, he very suddenly took back the job he was supposedly so miserable in (giving up a very good govt. job offer he had that he was supposed to start in a few days, and which paid nearly $20,000 more)!!!

I wish I could be confident he wasn't on here reading....I could tell more about some of my suspicious, but I'll hold off for now.

Again, thanks so much for the input!
My WH pulled that crap. He quit his good govt job so that he could show in court no income. Now he can go live off OW. It should be lots of fun for them until the money is gone smile
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 02:22 AM
Originally Posted by ExpectsAMiracle
My WH pulled that crap. He quit his good govt job so that he could show in court no income. Now he can go live off OW. It should be lots of fun for them until the money is gone smile

That is truly low. Yuck.
Posted By: Holyheart Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 02:47 AM
The fact that he quit then got back his job leads me to believe that he's having the affair with either someone he works with or one of his patients. The "time off" was for the other party to disappear so there would be no link to him.

And yes about splitting the debt BUT... start snooping to see if you can find "non communal" debt like funds he spent on OW. Check out all the credit card statements BEFORE he takes you off accounts. Believe me -- my eyes were opened big time by how much WH spent on jewelry, clothing, cars, hotels, restaurants, etc. WHILE we were still married. Non-communal debt will NOT be split... it will go directly to his side of the ledger!

Check into joint lines of credit and if you don't need the funds get them frozen so he can't access them. If you anticipate needing them for lawyer fees then take a chunk before freezing them. You need a warchest to fight a wayward.

And I doubt he can just say "I'm giving you $400" without your attorneys agreeing or a judge approving.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 02:58 AM
Thank you Holyheart. Unfortunately, he had one-up on me as far as taking all of the 'evidence'. I was away having surgery the day after he told me he wanted a separation, so he had a lot of time to get his things together while I was gone(including taking the computer, bills and changing passwords). We didn't have joint bank accounts or credit cards, which is probably a good thing. Come to think of it, it had been quite a while since I had seen a credit card statement of his (maybe a few months).
Posted By: Holyheart Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 03:11 AM
Sneaky jerk. He probably learned a trick or two listening to other couples go through this while he offered tainted advice.

As for evidence, you might be surprised what you can dig up. Try running a credit report on him. There's a free one on line -- I think it's freecreditreport.com. Don't subscribe to anything or purchase additional services -- you just want the free report. Then answer the questions as if you are your husband. Enter his birthdate and SS#. It will ask questions like your mortgage company or previous address. Answer these as though you are him. When you pass, you will get a report for all accounts affiliated with him -- bank accounts, credit cards, lines of credit, etc. It will show balances and info. as to if bills are paid on time.

With this information, I was able to access WHs INDIVIDUAL credit card accounts. With the account number, I was able to phone the credit card company, input the account number, add WHs zip code and HEAR all transactions. This is how I learned of the funds spent on OW.

Since you were married, whether or not a credit card was in your name or his, you should still try to find out if he used money on OW. HIS money is YOUR money while you are married.

Just don't give up trying to find ammo. You will need it.
Posted By: johnstwin Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 03:27 AM
freecreditreport.com requires that you enroll in a credit monitoring program.

The actual free credit report is through
annualcreditreport.com.

It's a sneaky marketing ploy.

Posted By: Holyheart Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 03:51 AM
Thanks, JT. And you can get reports from three different companies all from this site. I caution you about getting all three at once since you can only access from each company once a year.

So try to get one now, then wait a few months and use another company, then wait a few months for the last one.

Think of it this way -- knowledge is power. You HAVE to know what WHs been up to.
Posted By: LostHusband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/10/10 05:42 PM
Jill, also your attourney should talk to you about "discovery" he can request statuses of all credit cards with statements, retirement account, and basically anything else financially related....
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/12/10 03:42 PM
Update:

I went to my lawyer yesterday and he said "It sounds like your H wants to play bachelor for a while and have his cake and eat it, too". So he totally got it. He rec. hitting back hard and not messing around with the Legal Separation (as my H filed for) but shooting back with the D. I told him I wanted to make it as uncomfortable for him as possible. What do you all think?

I asked my H how long he'd been planning this (leaving) and he said, "I wasn't planning it but I was wrestling with it for probably a year and took steps in event either of us got to that point. And then that night (the night I found the FB mssg.) I knew I had no choice. And I'm horribly sorry about the timing and extra damage of that".

Does this mean he's been having his affair for over a year??? Or is this just his fogged mind?

Also, I saw him last night and almost laughed out loud....he has dyed his hair!!!! Is there a thread where we compare wayward spouses and see who's WS has displayed the most signs of a cheating spouse???? My H just might win!
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/12/10 03:45 PM
Of course I say that about the D and the dyed hair lightheartedly, but I failed to mention the part where I came home and literally stayed up all night crying last night.

This is so painful.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/12/10 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jill Mack
Of course I say that about the D and the dyed hair lightheartedly, but I failed to mention the part where I came home and literally stayed up all night crying last night.

This is so painful.

Get the PI, find out who OW is, get it exposed, and take the weight off of his chest. He knows what he is doing is wrong, but he can't stop himself. He needs this affair to be discovered so you can kill it for him.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/12/10 03:51 PM
I am NOT going to tell you that in time it will get better, because that used to drive me CRAZY. I just wanted to feel what I was feeling. So get it out. Do you write a journal? I have found that it is very effective to write what I am feeling, even if noone will read it.
Posted By: LostHusband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/12/10 03:52 PM
((((Jill)))), I understand it's painful, unfortunately I have experience in that area. And honestly, my xWS is still Foggy 9 years later, as a matter of fact I just got a self-centered, self-entitled, venom filled e-mail from her this morning which made me LOL.... I've said it before and I'll say it again, some people just don't get it and the sad/funny thing is that they don't even get what they don't get......

Anywho, if your atty says hit hard, then I'd follow that advice. Heck the fees are probably about the same. And just so you know, it's my experience that 97.3% of couples DO NOT DIVORCE AS FRIENDS. It's not a friendly transaction and friends do not do what has been done to each other to bring us to the place in life.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/12/10 04:09 PM
Good advice, LH

JM you should read ladylonglegs thread. I agree divorce is not a friendly transcaction, your best bet is a strong position, if you plan on doing this now.

Good Luck to you.
Quote
I wasn't planning it but I was wrestling with it for probably a year and took steps in event either of us got to that point.

took steps = screw BS over

Which means that you need to figure out if he has transferred any money into hidden assets, etc.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/13/10 07:09 PM
Well, Happy 40th Birthday to me. As if being dumped on the day I had surgery wasn't bad enough, it was also right when I turned 40. Ugh.

I'm having moments of panicking about what I'm doing with the lawyer. Is hitting back with the D the right thing? Is it too soon? Should I be fighting harder for my marriage, or is this the right step toward trying to snap him out of his fantasy world?

I don't even know for sure who/what exactly is going on in my marriage yet.

I'm so confused.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 02/13/10 07:19 PM
HappyBirthday
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 08:11 PM
Update:

Well, it's been two months since WH abruptly announced he wanted a separation and moved out. I STILL do not have proof of OW. I don't want to go into detail because my WH knows about MB and I don't want to give away what I am doing, however EVERYTHING I have tried up to this point has failed miserably. I have not given up and I am continuing to search. He has gone very deep and dark with hiding. This has been extremely frustrating because I KNOW how vital exposure is (and truth for my own sanity).

As far as me responding back to his request for Legal Separation with divorce, I have called my lawyer and cancelled that and now I am just agreeing to the legal separation. I realized how absolutely absurd it was for me to make such as monumental choice (divorce) just days after having this bomb dropped on me by WH. I cannot make a decision until I know the TRUTH about what is really happening in my marriage.

And interestingly enough, as mad and disgusted as I was with him right after D-Day, I have had a true change of heart and I actually want to try to work to save my marriage if at all possible.

He is living in a crappy old apartment right in the heart of a college town and he does his laundry in a laundry mat. It blows my mind to realize what he has thrown away (wife, family,house, reputation, finances, etc.).

I still have periods of wondering if I am just crazy- maybe he is not having an affair and did, in fact, want to get away from me like he has said. As we know, waywards can be very convincing in their DENIAL and all the roadblocks I've come up against in finding proof has been taking a toll.

Anway, my question is this: What plan should I be in right now? I have not been trying to talk much to my WH, however I did tell him that I still loved him and wanted to make our marriage work (His reply, "Thank you".). I don't want to make a mistake with this (I feel I have already screwed up so much) but I want to work the best plan while I'm trying to find out who OW is.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 08:44 PM
What happened with the PI Sidney? I'm not sure waht you can do blind.


God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 08:58 PM
The PI was a miserable failure. Way too busy with 'criminal cases' to be bothered with my case, and after one month still had not bothered to even find WH office! Wouldn't even return my calls until several days later. Fired that one and am now trying to find another...I live in a small area and that PI was the only game in town.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 09:42 PM
Whoop up a good Plan A, Sidney. It is not just a plan to show WH what a terrific W you could be but it is for you. It is a self awareness/self improvement plan. Get and read the books Love Busters and Fall in Love, Stay in love. Read everything on site about Plan A and other threads where folks are in Plan A.

Does he pick up your DD at your house? Be pleasant when you talk to him, make small talk about family things, make sure your home is warm and inviting. Start doing some things for you, work out, get your nails done. Let him know that you would prefer to work on your M but you are moving on with your life. You can make it obvious that you care for him without using the words.

There are many Plan A pros on here who will give you excellent advice and ideas and cheer you on.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 10:16 PM
Say, thank you so much! I have been floundering and spinning my wheels so much the past two months, so it is really nice to actually have a plan!!!

Plan A, here I come.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 10:25 PM
So when do you start? How much contact do you have with him? Does he ever come to your house?

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 11:03 PM
I start now!

Contact has been minimal, just sometimes seeing him when he comes to get/drop off DD. Before now I would have a hard time even looking at him, let alone speaking to him, but I have been a lot nicer lately and have engaged in conversation more. I confess, in the past I ignored his texts and phone calls as much as possible, but I have now been answering him and even starting some of them myself.

In the past when he came to our house he would stay outside, but I will now make a point to invite him in and and make sure it is very pleasant and inviting. One of the last times he came over we were all out in the backyard playing with the neighborhood kids, which is something he always enjoyed.

Just yesterday he said he needed some warmer clothes so I packed some up for him and offered to take them to his place (I was going to be in town already for something else)...even went in for a tour of his apartment.

As for my own growth, I have been working a lot on myself both physically (working out, eating healthy), spiritually (reading the Bible again and leaning on God completely) and emotionally (starting therapy with psychologist this week). I have tried to stay active and do things out of the norm for me (taking kids new places, socializing more, etc.).

I have realized how much I neglected stuff, both in myself and in our marriage. I can see the benefit in addressing this and making changes, hopefully for our future together but if not, then at least I will be a happier more fulfilled person.

Oh, and I am reading, reading, reading all I can about Plan A!
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/28/10 11:31 PM
Hooray for you! Plan A will prepare you for whatever happens. Even though I realized that my WH's A was 100% his decision, Plan A provided me with the opportunity to take an honest look at what kind of wife I had been and how I had contributed to the condition of our pre A M. I read the books, I learned to listen more than I talked, I figured out what my WH's ENs were, I learned to control my lovebusters and I prayed night and day that God would help me to love my H as God loved him, to value him as God valued him, to love him as God loved him, to forgive him as God forgives me and to be the best W that I could possibly be. As I felt myself changing, miracle of miracles, my H began to change back into the man that I had married. I honestly believe that even if he had not turned back into that loving man, the new Plan A me would have been more capable of dealing with that.

I don't mean to imply that it was overnight. There was alot of anger and grief to get through and it took months to get beyond the betrayal and trickle truth but this site, the good people on this forum and Plan A was the beginning for us.

I wish you well, I will be your cheerleader and I will add you to my MB prayer list.

God's Blesssings,

Say
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 03/31/10 07:30 PM
How's it going Sid??? You ok?

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/01/10 02:14 AM
Thanks for checking on me, Say.

Things are OK. I now know why eveyone talks about the rollercoaster ride infidelity takes us on. My feelings are all over the place! Some days I feel so strongly I want to try to save our marriage, and other days (like today) I have times of thinking there's just no way we would ever be able to overcome everything (like my WH said on D-Day, "There's just too much"). That's where I put my faith in God and know He will work things out for the best.

One thing I am so greatful for is that I have seemed to moved past the extreme punched-in-the-gut pain that I had been feeling. Is two months the magic mark for that? Or is it just a matter of time before that returns?

I've also had questions of wondering if my husband is Bipolar (I've wondered/suspected for years). Reading about spouses of Bipolar people is so eerie in the similarities. Of course, I know the addiction of the affair can make waywards act crazy, too....it's hard to know what's really going on since I don't know the truth.

Also, I've noticed WH has added almost every single one of his old girlfriends/interests/close female friends on his Facebook...something we of course had as a boundary in our marriage that we wouldn't do. Don't know why that should be so shocking and hurtful, since I think he's actually having an affair with someone, but it is.

Also, WH and DD-7 are leaving tomorrow to take the trip that we had been planning on taking together as a family for almost a year. It's stunning to me how much a wayward spouse gets to decide in so many people's lives.

I heard from my sister-in-law last night who said, I know (WH full name)'s beliefs and values and I KNOW he hasn't been unfaithful. Uh, ok. His mom has said the same thing, of course.

Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/01/10 12:50 PM
I need help!!!!

My WH just responded to an e-mail I sent him (it was about things like taxes and our DD's Dr. appt., etc) and then out of the blue he started talking about why he left.

He said that he did not leave me for the girl who left the FB mssg. and he of course said he was not having an affair with either that girl or anyone else.

Then he said, "I'm not against talking to you about all that has happened. I don't know if you would ever believe this, but it was all the other stuff and feeling like I was dying...not because of YOU but because of the relationship and all that it had put us through. I still feel like I have been running on a treadmill the past two months (since he left) and I don't feel any differently about us now then I did then.I don't blame you for filing for divorce and I honest to God hope you are doing OK".

I REALLY need some guidance here on how to respond to this...is he trying to open a door to communicate or is this just more denial and justification?

I originally responded to his legal separation with a divorce, however I rescended that and now have replied back with only an agreement to a legal separation, so I'm not sure why he still thinks I filed for divorce.

This is the most he has communicated with me about 'us' since he left, so I'd really like to not screw this up by replying in the wrong way.

Posted By: believer Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/01/10 02:07 PM
What he is saying is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..............

He IS having an affair and wants to throw you off track, probably so you will go easy on him in case of divorce.

Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/01/10 02:13 PM
The other strange thing he said was that me filing for divorce 'forced him to fight back just for his relationship with DD'.

That makes no sense, because he was the one that filed for the legal separation in the first place and had all the visitation already lined out at that time. My request for divorce (which has since been dropped) was only in response to his original filing.

And I've always been very flexible about him seeling our DD, so I'm not sure what he means by saying he had to fight back just to have a relationship with her???

Is this just a case of trying to blame me in order to alieviate his own guilt?

OK, I just re-read my post and I think this is just a case of fog babble. Am I right?

I'm still wondering how I should respond to his e-mail. Should I try to talk about the relationship or will that get me anywhere since he's in the fog?
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/01/10 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by believer
What he is saying is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..............

He IS having an affair and wants to throw you off track, probably so you will go easy on him in case of divorce.

We must have been posting at the same time.

OK, I totally get that it's blah. Do I ignore everything he said or respond to any of it?

Thank you!
Posted By: believer Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/01/10 03:29 PM
You can write back and let him know you understand that he was dying, that you don't want the same old marriage back, and you are sorry for your part in the way things went.

Please don't try to make sense of his blathering, it will just drive you crazy. He knows that he is having an affair, he knows that he filed.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/01/10 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by believer
You can write back and let him know you understand that he was dying, that you don't want the same old marriage back, and you are sorry for your part in the way things went.

Thank you, I really appreciate it. I will tell him just that.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/11/10 07:46 PM
Question: Why do men get their testosterone levels checked? Or rather, why would a married man who is separated from his wife and is 'supposedly' not seeing anyone else get his testosterone level checked?

I recently discovered that my WH got his checked about two weeks after he moved out. The only other time he has ever had it checked was when we were about to get married and he was concerned about his level being too low (i.e., performance and drive).

Tomorrow we have a court hearing about our legal separation and he just texted me saying he wants to talk afterward. I have no idea what this is about, part of me thinks he is going to tell me that he's ready to file for D. ???

Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/11/10 08:12 PM
Sydney, I think that you already know the answer to that. Your gut has already told you that there is an A. His actions point to it. I know that you want to believe that he is not but I would be very surprised if that were the case.

What has happened in the ten days since you last posted. Have you been able to initiate any Plan A activities? How did you find out about the testing?

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/12/10 04:30 PM
Well, WH has filed for divorce! We had another court hearing this morning (about legal separation) and WH has changed his petition to divorce.

He said he wanted to talk to me afterward, and I guess I don't know what I was expecting but I was very hurt.

He twisted everything around and, of course, re-wrote all of our history. He told me that not only had he been considering leaving for the past year (as he said earlier) but now he said he was miserable and wanting out our entire marriage!!!

He said he's doing better (since he's been gone) and that it seemed like I was doing better.

He said he wanted things to be on friendly terms and I told him I was interested in being his wife, not his friend and that I would NOT be his friend.

I was so mad and hurt. And of course he keeps denying there is someone else.

I feel completely defeated and like there is no hope. I'm mad, and I'm mad at God for keeping OW and the TRUTH about what is going on in my marriage hidden.

I don't really see the purpose in trying to talk to him anymore...nothing he says makes sense and he twists everything around to try to justify what he's doing.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/12/10 04:57 PM
hug Sydney. You did great in what you told him. Do not help him with his D. Don't stop til you find out who OW is. You know there is one. Find her and expose their filthy secret.

God did not do this. WH did. Keep your friendship open with God, you are going to need him and I would keep up your Plan-A wnenever you get the opportunity, texts, e-mails, when he picks up your DD. Your mantra should be I don't talk D, just M.

You will be able to regroup and continue in a few days. Filing does not a D make.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/13/10 01:11 AM
Say, thank you so much. You have been such a blessing!

I honestly feel defeated right now and completely discouraged about ever finding OW. He is being tracked and he is at home nights....even on the weekends!

I read some of his old journals and I am really disturbed by what I read. I have often thought WH was bipolar, but I am seriously questioning the possibility of Borderline Personality Disorder (I had questioned that years ago, much to my WH's fury). He fits so many of the criteria. I think Fred actually hinted toward that several pages back.

Over and over again in his journal I read about the chronic emptiness, seething resentment, black/white thinking, splitting (either putting someone on a pedestal or completely hating their guts), substance abuse, raging anger, thinking he (or others) are crazy or possessed or evil, depression so bad he felt suicidal, etc.

I have had thoughts throughout our marriage that I just couldn't compete with his mind, because I never knew what he was thinking and his thoughts so often seemed skewed. And I KNEW he resented me so much, so often.

Maybe my biggest hurdle isn't an affair, maybe my biggest hurdle is mental illness!

Oh, and today (out of the blue) my lawyer questioned WH's sexual orientation! This is another issue that seems to keep coming up as well.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/13/10 02:10 AM
You are in my prayers. You know that you are well within your rights, even in God's eyes to choose D and no one would blame you if you do. Just take care of yourself and your DD. Remember that Plan A is just as much about you as him. Go get a massage, take a class, highlight your hair, start an exercise program, remodel a room. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/15/10 11:47 PM
Well WH and I have been texting more and he even called me last night to talk about how things were going and why he left (still not admitting to affair, still no proof, and still rewriting our history). He actually thanked me yesterday after I said something he thought was funny and said it made him smile. That was the warmest thing he's said to me in the two and a half months since he left. I told him I was enjoying all of the beautiful flowers and trees he had planted that are in bloom now and what a blessing it has been to me (it has, it makes me feel closer to God to see such beauty).

Today I got the divorce papers in the mail and I just texted him and told him that it was sobering to see the papers in print and to realize that he has made all these monumental decisions in our lives and I've had no say at all about anything. I also told him I thought he was making the biggest mistake of his life.

He now wants to know why I think that and he said that I keep saying I would like our marriage to be different (I told him I didn't want the same old marriage but to work toward a better one) and he wants to know what this entails.

Is this where I basically come up with my part in why I believe our marriage was lacking? What do I say to him?

This is so confusing when I don't have proof of anything. I have followed him over his lunch hour and the past two days he leaves work alone and has lunch alone. I have someone checking on him at night and on the weekends and he's always home. I'm baffled.

Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/15/10 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by SidneyT
Today I got the divorce papers in the mail

Get an attorney.
Plan B his butt.

He thinks he's going to divorce you and retain your friendship as good as ever.
Is this your plan as well?
Plan "friendly divorce"?

I'd not allow him any access .... if this was happening to me.
The minute divorce papers arrived ... I'd never speak to him again.

But, your milage may vary.

Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/16/10 12:01 AM
Hi Syd,

I was wondering what was going on with you. Be honest with him about where you feel that you fell short. Tell him you have been reading some books and they were very convicting. Keep your cards close to your chest about this site but tell him that you have learned that love can die when a couple is not fullfulling each others ENs and that you think that the two of you could learn to fill each others needs again. Ask him if he thinks that you and him being in love like you were when you first married would be a better idea than divorce.

Be loving and kind, don't try to educate him and own up to your part in the problems in the M without absolving him of responsibility.

It is possible that there is no one else altough the signs point to there being someone. Keep your radar up and keep posting.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/16/10 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by SidneyT
Today I got the divorce papers in the mail

Get an attorney.
Plan B his butt.

He thinks he's going to divorce you and retain your friendship as good as ever.
Is this your plan as well?
Plan "friendly divorce"?

I'd not allow him any access .... if this was happening to me.
The minute divorce papers arrived ... I'd never speak to him again.

But, your milage may vary.



Pep, I do have an attorney. I told him Monday after court (after he dropped the D-bomb and then wanted to talk) that I wanted to be his wife and wouldn't be his friend and I walked away. After that is when he suddenly started getting very chatty and friendly.

I will not be his friend if he divorces me! He told me he was still unsure about what he really wanted, and that his attorney told him if he didn't file D we would basically be in limbo and have to start over from square one (my atty. told me the same thing before court). That's why I was thinking I might still have a chance with Plan A, but you rec. going into B, huh?
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/16/10 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by saynomore
Ask him if he thinks that you and him being in love like you were when you first married would be a better idea than divorce.

That's a great question, Say. I will ask him this and mention the other issues you brought up. The way he's acting and talking right now he very likely will say that he was never in love with me at all, our entire marriage. I guess it's worth a shot, especially since we have not really communicated much at all since he left.

Thank you!!!

Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/16/10 02:01 AM
I seldom disagree with Pep but in this case, I do. I know very happy couples that have gotten remarried after years of divorce so I don't think that you should base your decision on him filing. Printed words are flat, Syd. Only you can gauge if you detect any sincerety in your H. His infidelity at this point is speculation until you prove it and you are certainly being proactive about that possibility.

I say proceed with extreme caution. Guard your heart. I posted before Pep how I would handle it. Can you afford a session with the Harleys?

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/16/10 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by saynomore
Only you can gauge if you detect any sincerety in your H.

I detect extreme confusion in him right now, and he even said as much after court. He doesn't know WHAT he wants.

Interesting you said that about guarding my heart. I have been praying all day for that very thing! I'm trusting God to work this mess out and to guide me, however today I realized I needed to start asking Him to protect my heart if the divorce is going to go through, because I'm not up for much more pain!


As always, thanks so much.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/16/10 02:21 AM
Oh, and yes I would be willing to do a session with the Harley's. Do you mean both of us or just me?
Posted By: Scotland Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/16/10 02:48 AM
I don't know if your H would even agree to coaching with the harleys but as far as what I have read on this site so far, no one has regretted calling. I think they know how to gauge your sitch better than we would. Take care.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/19/10 12:06 AM
You ok, Syd?

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Reva Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/19/10 01:03 PM
My WH did the same thing and still does sometimes. Because he comes to the house in the morning to get our ds off to school while I'm at work, he sometimes washes the dishes ... something he NEVER did in 15 years of marriage.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/19/10 04:31 PM
The other day (same day I got the divorce papers in the mail) I texted my WH and said, "It's just sobering, the monumental decisions that have been made in all our lives by YOU and I don't get to have a say in any of it. I think it sucks. I also think you are making the biggest mistake of your life".

WH texted back: "Why? What do you want to do, really?"

I replied back pretty much verbatim what Say rec. that I should reply to him (wanting a different but better marriage, getting back to how we were when we were in love, and working at meeting each other's needs, etc.).

WH: "I don't know. Yes, I did love you, but I don't know if I could again or could trust that you trust me. I'm not talking jealousy, just overall trust and comfort to be who we really are."

Me: "Well who are you?"

WH: (after about 20 minutes)- "I don't know this week. I truly don't. Right now I know that I need to be alone. That sucks, I know".

ME: "OK"

WH: "Thank you" (I took this to mean 'thank you for not pushing me any more with this right now')

Since he has left he has mentioned 'wanting to be who I really am' several times and I'm trying to know what that means. I think he is, too.

I've been reading a ton about MIDLIFE CRISIS and I'm wondering why we don't really hear more about this, as in that it is a true life stage that many men (and some women) struggle through (and it's not just a cliche', like I thought). I really haven't read too much about the Midlife Crisis on this board, but it seems like so many fit. Of course an A can often be part of the MLC, but sometimes it isn't.
Posted By: Reva Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/20/10 01:16 PM
Sidney,

The comment about your WH's sexual orientation raised a red flag for me.

Is there any possibility that your WH is gay? Has that ever come up in your marriage? If there is even the slimmest chance that this may be the case that would explain why you can't find evidence of an affair. If your WH is acting out on homosexual impulses, it is likely he is engaging in stranger sex or one-night stands. It would make sense that he is covering his tracks so carefully and maybe what he is hiding from you isn't evidence of an affair but evidence of gay clubs, porn and other activities.

It would also explain his waffling back and forth with you (although the same could be said for behavior because of an affair.) He may be going through periods of self-revulsion versus excitement versus shame versus guilt versus a whole new life.
Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/20/10 06:34 PM
Reva, the thought that my WH could be gay has come up time and time again over the years.

He has had a very close male friend (who is married) that has been a source of contention throughout our entire relationship. My WH has always called/texted this friend, repeatedly throughout the day and sometimes talking for very long periods of time (60-90 minute). If my WH and I would get in a fight, WH would go and call this friend and talk on the phone with him, which always ticked me off because I felt he was working out "our" fight with the friend instead of with me.

About two years ago my WH and this friend went away for the weekend to a sporting event. When WH came back, he said they got into a big fight and were no longer talking. He said the fight was over the fact that his friend was angry because WH had been sharing things with me about the friend's marriage and personal struggles and the friend felt this should remain private between he and WH. They didn't talk for nearly 9 months, but then they made up and the friend was once again on the pedestal and the phone calls/texts resumed.

The night of D-Day, WH had 17 texts messages back and forth to a phone number listed on his phone as being this friend. When I checked out the number it was listed as belonging to someone else (male) in a different state, though.

So yes, the question has come up before, both within myself and others (including some who read old posts on here, my lawyer, my friends, and a Clinician/friend I am close to).

My WH admitted to me recently that he did not feel he could be who he really is and said he had been hiding a lot from me the past year or so. ????
Posted By: Reva Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/21/10 11:56 AM
Sidney,

I'm truly sorry for what you're going through. I wrote what I did because I was once involved with a man that I loved and who said he loved me but something wasn't right. This was many years ago. He broke it off with me abruptly with no explanation why. It took him more than 20 years before he finally admitted his sexual orientation and "came out." It's heartbreaking when this happens in a marriage and when there are children involved. I don't know if Dr. Hartley has commentted on this type of infidelity but I hope some of the veterans will chime in here with some advice on where you proceed from here.

Posted By: SidneyT Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/29/10 02:39 PM
Well, I'm not 100% convinced that my H is gay. I read years worth of his journals and he was definately VERY interested in women and never mentioned men. The time a few years ago that I knew he viewed porn on-line I went back and checked on every site he visited and it was all hetero stuff. There is the enmeshed relationship he has with this male friend, however I wonder if it's more of a thing where he's put this guy on a pedestal (BPD trait) vs. a sexual thing. However, anything's possible and that relationship H has with the friend was definately very strange and not healthy for our marriage.

I have felt much better about everything lately. I've been going to IC and she has really helped open my eyes to how extremely pitiful our marriage had become. My H worked so hard to always keep me at arm's length, always wanting his 'private time', always taking vacations by himself, always going out to eat by himself, going to games by himself, etc. etc. He was very selfish!!! IC even asked me what my 'limit' would be with H, because our marriage had become so void. I realized I was so determined to not be divorced that I no longer even had a limt! Sad.

I learned years ago that for me to try to talk about anything that I was unhappy about in our relationship was NOT worth it. The horrible fights that would ensue (and never be resolved) and somehow things often became twisted around to be my fault wore me down to the point of just shuting up about things and letting them slide.

The theme in our house became, "Don't bother H because he's so stressed out (ALWAYS so incredibly stressed out) and needs his space". We all had to be in our rooms by 9:00 each night so H could have his damned space! I always felt like I was scurrying off like a scared mouse so H wouldn't get mad about anyone still being up in the family room interefering with his time. He even had his own office (and later took over the guest room, too), but he still demanded this. Talk about walking on eggshells!

So I am now at the point of actually finding H repulsive! I've been praying for God to guide my heart and perhaps I've found my answer!!! I honestly can't imagine getting back with him anymore. The peace I have in my heart (and in my home) is priceless and I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who seemed so resentful of me and determined to keep me at arm's length.

My H is now fighting childcare for summer visitation. My mom has watched our D since birth, and I told H I would be flexible about what he wanted as long as D kept the same childcare. I feel like she's been through enough as it is without now sticking her with some stranger all day long when she could be with people who actually love her. She herself does not want to be with someone she doesn't know (she's 7). So now it's back to court on Monday for this matter.

I find it odd that he would want to thrust her with some stranger because he has always been extremely hypervigilant and obsessed about our D being around anyone who might sexually abuse her. He has even gone to the extreme of not trusting our own mothers to protect her (drove 4 hours in the middle of the night one X-Mas break when he felt like his mom wasn't protecting her from a male cousin who might molest her). His rule was that our dad's were never to be alone with her. And last summer he made a huge deal out of our D spending one day with an 8-year-old boy at my mom's house because he said he could tell this boy was troubled and messed up just by looking at him and would probably try to molest our D.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Husband blindsided us by leaving.... - 04/29/10 02:47 PM
I am glad to hear from you, Sid. Seems like your WH has some strange ideas. Do you think he may have been molested as a child? I don't remember, are you in Plan B as well as Plan D?
Any continued contact with him will just add to your feelings of repulsiveness.

Still praying for you.

God's Blessings,

Say
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