Hello all,
I just wanted to bring this up because I do not want to quit reading or posting on this forum so I am going to need some help here maybe from the vets but from all of you really.
I am in IC and have many friends who know my story.
They are all telling me (and they all seemed to be telling me this yesterday..it was like a avalance of the same advice..) that after 5 months now of my WH showing nothing towards me and of him living alone and still seeing OW and of him being alienated from me even when we were still together should give me a clear picture that this is really really over.
I told all these people, including my IC, that on this MB forum there are 1,000s of examples of situations similar to mine and that people do R sometimes.
IC told me that H's behavior goes beyond him having an A. She said ok the A hurts you, but really your H has other isssues going on and I can assure you that from his behavior he will not get back to you even if he leaves OW. He has been cold, heartless and distant for 2 years now and during these 5 months you guys were apart he made no effort to R in spite of your NC letter etc..
IC told me I should not come to this MB site any longer as it feeds me with false hope. She used the analogy of alcohol or food in a 12th step program. Just quit the substance of your addiction.
I explained to her that this forum actually encourages me to move on and yes to leave the door open but not to be a doormat. I also told her that it is my choice to leave a door open even if everybody thinks I should move on and call my M over.
Anyway she said that that was her advice and she would use all the tools possible now to not think of my M and my H and she strongly believes that not reading about A and infidelity all the time would help me heal.
This was also confirmed by 2 good friends of mine who checked the forum and said: yes is good at the begining but now you know what your path is... why keep fueling your thinking with these WS stories or BS stories?
I do not want to believe that me posting here or reading posts keeps me stuck. I find support here.
I do admit I am hoping to save my M and when I say this my friends say I really live in an illusory world as they see no way on earth my H will ever come back.
Please give me some hope. I do NOT want to leave the forum!
blessing

My 2 cents:

I think they are right in the sense that staying on this forum keeps the subject of infidelity and your marriage present all the time in your thoughts. I have found that in many ways I feel better when I don�t read here and I have gone for long spells not reading MB.

I have recently started reading and posting because i was on holidays but I should quit now. It�s not good for me to focus in infidelity so much.

Like you I had hope for my marriage for a long time. Now I don�t really want the marriage but I still won't give up on the hope that WH becomes a decent person again. I hope never to give up on that... I realize that it is a catch 22 situation. I don�t realy want to recover the marriage because not only would it be really hard but I just don�t think that it would be possible for me to get over all that has happened in these 5 years and even the way things were during my marriage. So I don�t think it is possible, but that doesn�t mean I would not like WH to stop being a liar, a cheat, an adulterer etc.

So personally I agree with your IC and friends. MB is an addiction too.

I have to quit!

I personally see both sides of the argument. Initially this website is a lifesaver for BS and even WS. It helps to see that we arent freaks, that we are acting normally when recieving such traumatic news, as well as offering a way forward along which ever path we choose to take R or D.

Again intially the support is more valuable than the triggers this site may give you, however I think there definately comes a time when the support needed isnt more than the triggers causing you to be held back from moving on.

Since I have stopped working with OW my W has made strong progress and its allowing us to focus on us and our M and that alone. Sometimes I see her reading threads and it triggers her and I wish she wouldnt get so involved until she is strong enough to do so. However she nows asks many questions about how to deal with or move on with our current situation so for me the balance is still favourable to stay.

I do think that for you; however little I know about your personal situation; the time has come to leave this site and focus on improving yourself personally and creating the best life around you that you can and if your WH comes to his senses then so be it. At least youd be in a better place to recieve him back and work on R.

Once you are in a strong place and you have a happy and successful life around you, come back and share your experiences as the vets do, but for now I agree with your IC, friends and ccbis.

Good luck

Atena:

When I read your posts, your raw pain is so apparent, I believe that an IC might want to steer you away, (even for a lack of any better ideas) because it is so hard to listen to someone so genuine -- and in pain.

I came here for help with an EA, It really, really helped, but now I am at an impasse on certain items, my H does not drink the MB Kool aid, but I find good things to read and make myself a better person.

I hope my advice gives other points of view. If it is helpful or not, I do not know. I have helped some and that makes it workth it.

Good luck to you

When friends and IC tell me to stop thinking of H because it is over...it really pains me. That is when I turn to MB bacause I know that here nobody will ever tell me that there is no hope for me to R my M.
But deep inside I know my WH has huge issues and that the choice he made to completely alienate himself from me, son and family are keeping him in a spot where is getting harder and harder for him to make ammends and un-do all the wrongs he has done to us all. He might not even see it as doing anythiing wrong...so we are dealing with a hightly entitled person.
So where do I turn for support at this difficult time?
Everybody tells you to go on with my life but there is no recipe to do that nor steps one can take.
These are emotional issues and they can't be resolved with a "move on" piece of advice....
blessing

Atena, I am a BS and also a Counselor. I get really cranky when an IC or MC tells any BS to move on. If a soldier coming home from Iraq, or a woman who had been raped, was suffering from PTSD would a therapist say, "OK, it's time to move on. And while you're at it give up your support group of the people who have been through the same thing and understand how you feel." Do me a favor, copy what I just wrote and ask her to respond. I'd be really interested . Does she understand or even buy that a BS has PTSD?

OK, in saying that, as your therapist she will have to help you work through this trauma in order for you to start moving forward at some point. You are not ready to make the break, but at some point if you continue to get nothing from you WH that will be necessary.

Finally, you need to monitor what you read here. I remember I went through a phase that I was trying to help a bunch of active WSs over on the Recovery forum. All of a sudden I realized it was just triggering me too much and affecting me with my H. I also had difficulty reading posts from the Just Found Out BSs. You need to know what sets you back and not go there. IOW, don't spend hours reading everything and not living your life. If you can't monitor yourself than maybe try taking a week off just to see if you feel better or not. If you need the support here stay firm. You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. Good luck!

It is present anyway...how do you erase 20 years of M? I have a son with my H...he is present and I can't nor want to erase him! We are in the process of selling our joint-owned A nest appartment, how can feeling not be raw?
If I do not read and post here I feel worse.
blessing

One more thing I forgot to say. For some people part of trauma recovery is telling there painful story over and over until it loses it's emotional impact. I posted a lot here, and also required that my H let me get out my pain about what he did, in order to get over the pain. Friends who haven't experienced infidelity are not really going to get this. A therapist should, but as I've seen by many posters, don't always get it either. Luckily we had an excellent MC and I had an IC who did get it.

I have found that reading MB can trigger me. I take a few days off when that happens. It happened more in the beginning, not so much, now. Actually, reading newly betrayed posts is sometimes good confirmation for me that the whole affair thing is oh so common, and follows and oh so typical course. What happened to us isn't so weird and unusual, after all

I think it's a caring gesture that your IC and friends counsel you to consider not reading this site, because they have your feelings in mind. However, only you can know how you feel by being here. Does reading MB make you feel better overall? Or are you generally stressed/anxious/triggered by reading posts? If you are finding that the latter is normally the case, you might want to consider not visiting the site for a week or so to see how that makes you feel.

You may be missing some of the intent of Plan B. True, plan B allows the door to stay open for recovery, but it is critical that during your plan B, you work towards your own personal recovery. If you are constantly thinking about your WH and hoping for that light bulb to go off in his head, then you really are holding yourself back. Plan B is to work on yourself. When you get to the end, you will be healthier regardless of what becomes of your marriage. Some BS's actually don't even want their
WS back after Plan B, even though the WS has turned around and met all the conditions. Why? Because their perspective changed as they healed emotionally and distanced themselves from the drama.

You won't stop thinking about him immediately - it's more of a gradual thing. But do take steps to remove reminders and triggers from your life. Get rid of, or at least put away and momentos and photos. Paint some rooms in your house. Buy new linens for your bed. Buy new clothes right down to the underwear and socks. Recreate yourself and your surroundings with things that are yours alone and not part of your marriage. You will still think about him too much for your own good, but less than you are now when you wake up in a room that you have never spent with him before, and eat in a kitchen he's never had a meal in before.

FWIW, I've been here a long time since the final nail was driven in the coffin of my M. There have been many times I wanted to quit this site but something draws me back. There are still some people who's stories I would like to know the outcome to. I am in the final stage of what I believe to be my last business interaction with my WXH - I'm waiting for payment from him for a small claims court case that I won. I have set that date (Feb 18) as my "quit" date for MB. I haven't opened any new BS threads in a while and I've resisted posting to many when I realize someone else is going to say much the same thing. But it's been a long, slow process to get to this stage. It is an addiction of it's own, but given the trauma that a BS endures, this is not a bad place to be.

+10 awesome post, CV55!

atena, CV55 is exactly right. If you had been raped, would the counselor be telling you to "move on?" I don't think she understands what she is dealing with here. You do have post traumatic stress disorder. You have been through TWO affairs over the past five years. I can't imagine how she believes you can give up your support group so soon.

And more importantly, you do not have false hope. You know that the odds are very slim and have a healthy perspective. While you still hope he will change - on an emotional level - you know he may not and are prepared to accept it.

Atena, one thing that helped me recover was coming here and helping others. When I am helping others I am not obsessing with myself. You have been so helpful to others here and have SO MUCH TO GIVE! But if you feel it triggers you, I can understand why you would need to take a break.

t/j to CV55, did you see Dr Harley's new book for counselors? Effective Marriage Counseling

Atena, the MAIN reason you are a little more obsessed with your H is not because you come here, but because you SEE HIM AT WORK! It is pretty hard to ever effectively detach under those circumstances.

If your WH is still seeing the OW then you need to be doing a solid plan B.

Working where the WH works is a bad idea. Job market is bad, loss of benefits, reduced pension, are the costs of mental health.

If you want to stay in plan B forever fine. You want to wait for WH to file first fine. Your not ready to do anything at this point fine.

Not having 100% NC not fine.

Atena,

Forgive me for not knowing already but are you in Plan B?

The reason I ask is that a good Plan B allows you to step back from the drama and raw emotional stuff of the affair so that YOU can heal and recover without eliminating the possibility of reconciliation in the future.

For Plan B to give you a chance you have to stop dealing with the affair and focus on other things. You don't have to move on in the sense of leaving WH behind, but you do have to move forward to find a way to live your life that is not encumbered, for lack of a better word at the moment, by the stuff that surrounds the affair.

Plan B isn't a shift in game plan as much as it is a time out. It is a time to lick your wounds, reach some sense of stability in your life and not have to focus on his crap and the drama and pain it leaves in its wake.

Some gain great strength from being here. Others can have their strength zapped by reading and empathizing with all the newbies. Sometimes just when you think you've seen it all, felt it all, have emotional detachment figured out and can navigate other folks' lives without being hurt by their pain you find yourself curled up in a ball crying because of some event or series of events on the forum.

I don't say you need to leave the forum and I don't suggest you give up on possible restoration and rebuilding of your marriage. I do suggest that you stop dealing with ANYTHING WH does, says, thinks, feels or announces in a press release on CNN. Start to live YOUR life. Find a life that YOU can live that doesn't include any part of him. While you are doing that, wait to see if the affair implodes and if he ever extracts his cranium from his anus.

You don't have to give up hope, you just have to stop hanging on some expectant outcome for your daily life. Read Queenie's thread (when you have a couple of months or so ) and see that people around her, even some here, said she was a fool, that her H would never return to her no matter what and that even hoping that it might someday work out was being a fool or worse.

Many if not most of these people were serious friends of hers. A lot of them religious friends. Not one of them had any experience to know how to advise her. None of them had ever attempted to recover a marriage that was so lost and broken. Today Queenie has moved her thread from SAA to Recovery because her husband is home and they are trying to rebuild what is left of their lives.

I heard a preacher on the radio a few days ago talking about answers to prayers. He said God can give us three answers. 1) Yes! (How we love it when He says yes!) 2) No! (Even NO! can be a comfort because we know it is NO) or 3) Wait for me to answer. It is this third possible answer that drives us to insanity. We don't know if God will say "yes" or "no". While we wait it sure looks and feels like "no" to us. And for those who don't understand the way God can and does work, "wait" is not much of an option. People around us, especially those who have not experienced the pain of infidelity have no clue how a marriage can recover.

They all believe, like many of us when we arrived here, that any marriage that broken is dead, beyond all hope and should be put down out of a sense of mercy. But most people also don't really trust God, even among the religious. God can heal a marriage that is broken way beyond anything we can imagine. (Read the OT book of Hosea for an example of God's healing and restoration)

So it is perfectly acceptable to wait in spite of what the skeptics suggest. You do need to stop dealing with WH and the affair all the time and begin to step back from the drama and allow yourself time to heal. Like CV55 suggested, you should probably stop yourself from getting involved in any threads that trigger you so easily and simply take the advice, comfort and strenght that comes from being encouraged by friends you've never met IRL yet understand what your heart is feeling right now because we've all BTDT and got the scars to show for it.

Hang in there, Atena. Don't let what people who mean well but have no clue what even they would do in your situation dictate how you feel or what you do. But do start walling off the love you have left for WH in case you need to draw on it for recovery. If you expend it all now, it's like using all your ammo for target practice and when the war resumes, you'll have nothing left but emptiness.

Mark

Atena,

I am now D but still come here. I guess I don't get triggered as much as I get confirmation.

And there is at least one case (Johnstwin) where there was a remarriage after D. I think there are others but I can't remember who they were.

Do whatever helps you get through this. For me, it was coming here....

Atena,

I don't think there exists a more supportive site for marriage anywhere. Or one with a more concrete and doable program. The only regret I have is that I didn't find this site sooner.

Some people will not get MB, and I think on some levels my wife does not. However she does give thanks for the improvements in me and our marriage in her prayers. BTW I have noticed that a great many people who view themselves as secular disparage anything even moderately associated with Christianity.

NJ

Atena,

I think a couple of things keep you stuck and filled with false hope.

I think the most liberating thing in the recovery process (personal, not marital) is the understanding that you can be happy again without that person in your life. There comes a point where you're even happy to have them out of your life.

It doesn't come overnight. Nor is it something that is sudden. It just evolves that way over time. Like the literal healing of a cut. Hurts a lot at first. Hurts less and less day after day.

But you're stuck because you still see your WH at work, which is terrible for you. You're partly stuck being on this site.

Why? I had a fantastic therapist. She wielded the 2x4 and was awesome in whacking me when I needed it. One of the things she said was that it is a fallacy to believe that talking about a problem helps you "talk it out". She said that it generally keeps you stuck and reliving the moment/event/tragedy/trauma. Every retelling is simply stirring the pot.

I use to come on here and vent and vent on other people's threads about their WS but the reality was that I was venting about my own.

I was pretty much ordered to get off MB and took many, many months off.

It was a real transition period in my life. I went through the final stage of healing and reached acceptance.

I started dating again after not doing so for almost a year. I was able to go on dates with barely a mention of my ex (which is super important).

I've met a wonderful woman who I have been dating for over a year now and am engaged to.

I just recently returned to MB and post to some folks to throw in my views now and then.

What do I recommend to you? Find new outlets for your pain that can help distract you.

Set MB down for a few months. We'll still be here. But a break can help the healing. Many, many vets go through spurts of posting. They'll post for a period of time, then you don't hear from them for months, then they chime in again.

Take a full break from MB. Don't read it, post on it, or anything.

Get to a point where you are removed from your WH in every way (including seeing him at work) and insulate yourself from him.

Find a Divorce Care group near you. Go out with those folks once a week. You'll eventually graduate from that group as you feel better.

Become involved in a church or gym. Join a club of some type.

Start living again.

The best friends I have gave me the 2x4 now and then to shake me out of where I was stuck and it was exactly what I needed. One in particular pointed out to me that hanging out with my divorced friends who were hurting and griping about their exes kept me stuck and it was VERY true.

This isn't to minimize what you've gone through. It hurts like he77 and you're in good company here. But you do need a break to help you move on.

Try it for two months. Come back and see how you feel.

help, thisis a great post. Very nice.

atena, I do not know your story well but I am familiar with the circumstances.

I too work with my XWH. It is a challenge every day. I also work with the OW too. Try to throw that into the mix.

No matter how much you can try to Plan B; there is always that possibility of seeing them. Very hard to stay dark.

Like you I was M long term - 22 years. We were D in 12/09.

In the real world outside of MB, everyone thinks I have "moved on", I am doing "incredible". If they only knew. I still have love for my XH. I don't talk about XH to my family much anymore and I try to keep busy.

Is MB holding me back from living? No, if anything it saved me by making me "want to live". I have made some great friends here where I could call them in the middle of the night if need be..(luckily I have not had to!)

If you feel good coming onto the board -- you decide. When I came here I looked for answers; I looked for hope; I looked to save my M. So many help me and I was blessed. Now if anything even though my M is over, I try and help others even to just say it is alright and sorry to find yourself here.

You decide. take care.

Thank you all for coming to the rescue, your posts are truly truly helpful to me.
I am at times surprised on how much I can put up with during this time of my life
I am basically homeless and getting really tired of being a guest at different friends and living out of a suitcase for 5 months now. I am looking for a place,but till I sell the house I can�t afford a big rent as I have half of the mortgage.
I am getting a master degree and it is very demanding at a time where I can�t concentrate
I have a full time job (thank god!)
My son left for college in sept so I also have empty nest syndrome.
Of course my H left me for OW�
At times I think I am a saint!


I do not think my IC understands the gravity of my situation.

It I hard to do this because my life has been shattered by his decision and I can�t take that out of my mind given I do not even have a place of my own thanks to his decision to have A with neighbor.


I will give it 2 years, till Sept 2011, then I will have to tell myself that there is no hope.


I am not sure�.I fantasize a lot about him coming back to me and everything being all right after that. It helps to see that even desperate cases like mine can R.
I am not sure I will be able to stay away from the forum for long. I will try. Maybe it will help.
In the meantime I am going to look for help out there and see if I can find a better therapist.

Blessing to you all and thank you !!!!!!!!

"+10 awesome post, CV55!"

Thanks Mel! I have probably written that same exact thing at least 5 other times on here. I really get so saddened when I hear ICs and MCs giving that kind of advice to their clients. It actually makes me sick. Every now and then my H will tell me that what I needed to get over the trauma took a real toll on him. I understand that. I made him look at a very dark part of himself because I needed that to heal. Unfortunately if he wouldn't have gone there with me, if we hadn't of had a MC who understood I needed that to heal, we just wouldn't be married now.

Thanks for the info about Dr. Harley's new book. I'd like to read it. I'm pretty sure I don't want to work with couples, but in the back of my mind I think someday I'd really like to help BSs who are going through this experience, whether they get back with their WS or not. Just help them negotiate through this experience. I really think that when a therapist tells someone it's time to move on, it's because they want to move on. I've had the opportunity to work with some folks over a period of time and have seen first hand that when people can talk about the trauma, whatever it is, they begin to recognize how it is influencing their present. When that happens they begin to get in control of their feelings and slowly the past gets put in the past where it belongs. The other thing that many don't realize is that the trauma of the A often triggers early trauma or difficulties that people had pre-A. This sh!! is complicated! If I have time one day I'm going to post the clinical criteria for PTSD. I looked at it once and I fit most of the criteria early on.

Atena, follow your gut on whether you need this place or not. I don't know your story or how long ago d-day was, but you still seem very raw. As the one poster said, if you can find a support group in your town that would be great. But you need support from people who understand. As far as fantasizing that your H will come back, it helped me a lot to say the Serenity Prayer. I never prayed that my H and I would stay Med. I prayed that whatever was the best outcome would occur. Try to keep an open mind that maybe the M will work out, or maybe you will end up having a much better life without your H. HUGS!

Someone I know has become an awesome counselor! Not that I ever had any doubt that would happen!

Atena, follow your gut, as has been recommended, and follow your heart as well. People here are grounded, and base their advice to you on PRINCIPALS, rather than good intentions.

The words may help you come to decisions you need to make, but your heart will tell you if it's time to move on.

I do agree with others that it would be far better for you to find employment elsewhere. The constant contact with WH and OW does you far more harm than anything you read on MB.

best wishes
sd

Hey there SD! Thanks for the kind words. The other day I was calculating how much money we would have in our bank account if H didn't have his stupid A, and I would have taken that ridiculous test in 2003 and gotten a job back then. Not that what I do is exactly a money making job, but I figured at the minimum we'd have about $70,000 extra bucks in the bank. I guess I need to deal with that past fact. I've been nice and haven't shared my recent calculation with H.

Maybe if you have some time in the near future we can catch up over in the recovery forum. I noticed a post from Bob P that I didn't see which I have to respond to also. Nothing like my war time buddies of 2004!

My gut feeling tells me not to make any decision right now. It has been 5 months since H and I no longer share the same roof. My H falls in love with people very easily and the OW is around a lot so I think that he really fell in love with her and has intense feelings for her now. But knowing him it will not last that long and he will then have to decide if to try to contact me for R or not.
As things are now, of course him coming back would seem impossible. But miracles happen.
I am going to fire my IC and wish that you CV55 would go into IC. I would be your first customer!
thank you and blessing

Yes, seeing my H at work is a killer. I can't change job yet, but I will one day. I am waiting for a promotion and if that flies then I will be more markatable and will be able to pursue a job elsewhere.
blessing

Atena, I too need to continue to work in the same place as XH and OW. My DD is in school and will not graduate for another 1.5 years. Will not make any decisions till that time. I even turned both XH and OW in to HR and XH got demoted and they both still work there. Can't believe that neither got fired. Finally got to a point that I had to let it go and have karma work on both of them.

Continue to post. This is a long process and if anyone tells you otherwise they are wrong. I read that it takes at least one month for every year of M to heal after D. That leaves me with 21 months and I am sure I will keep posting here during all of it.

I find this board healing; it gives me strength; I could show my weaknesses. No IC can provide that. take care.

Pardon me while I stick my big nose in your business....
If what you write is true, he's a big risk in the future as well .... because what you've written is a picture of a man with little or no ability to develop a mature love that lasts.

I'm not sayin' I'm jus sayin' .... think about this.

Atena, before you fire your IC I would suggest you talk to her. The mark of a good therapist is that he/she is willing to work through some conflict if it comes up. Talk to her about this thread. If she gets defensive, doesn't believe that a BS has been traumatized, tries to dictate whether you should or shouldn't come to MB, then I'd dump her.

In line with what Pep wrote, it sounds like your H is more than your "run of the mill" WS, but could be more of the serial cheater variety. If that is the case I hope you value yourself enough to not wait around until Sept. 2011. And if by some "miracle" he would want an R with you, I hope you get to the point of thinking, "Do I want a R with him?" And make him earn his way back into your life again.

Oddly enough, when my H was in his A, unbeknown to me, I was working with a wonderful lady who had gone through he!! because of her cheating H. Actually was homeless for a while, clinical depression, etc. She worked really hard to get a job, a small apartment, become emotionally stable, but just wasn't ready to "untie the knot" as we'd refer to the M in her therapy. I knew she should dump the guy. No doubt about it. But you can't make anyone do anything. So do you know what finally made her untie the knot and really not want to have anything to do with her H anymore? She was diagnosed with leukemia and died about 4 months later. I'm not trying to be depressing here. She was one of my favorite clients. Just value yourself!

You are the best judge of whether this forum is helpful to you or not, and even if you decide it is, there may be times you need to take breaks. That's fine.

If you're triggering too much from the regular threads but don't want to leave for a bit either, hang out and chat on Idiotville, or the Feminine Hygiene Products, or anything similar. You're still in the same group of people, but focused mostly on just chatting and not so much adultery.

I have been sleeping 2 hours a night for the past month. Yesterday I had a breakdown and could not stop crying.
My doctor prescribed AD to me and I started yesterday. I feel like all the thoughts have been removed from my head now and I totally stoned...but I guess I needed it after 6 years of h@ll for my H's two affairs and now all the crap related to the separation..not having a home etc...
Blessing

{{{{{{atena}}}}}}

It's all I got to give.

I am sorry, friend. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ATENA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} You have been triggered by dealing with the house sale, haven't you?

Yes, totally, it is very stressful. Plus I ran into H two days in a row and had to hear him talk to a collegue and laughing and acting as if he own the world. He sounded happy and full of life. He looked good.
On the other hand here is poor little me homeless and a nervous wreck.
He does not seem triggered by the sale of the house or by anything at all!!!!
On top of that, son is not answering my emails and everytime I call him he tries to avoid talking to me with the excuse he is in a hurry or something.
Why do I have to end up with the short end of the stick when I put every effort to save my M and put every effort to be a super good mom to my son...while my H just ignores him?
AM I getting hit by the karma bus?
blessing

"Why do I have to end up with the short end of the stick when I put every effort to save my M and put every effort to be a super good mom to my son...while my H just ignores him?
AM I getting hit by the karma bus?"

Atena, only have a minute so am going to write fast. A few years ago my SIL got hit by her H's 2nd A and I posted here for her. Her H wouldn't give up the OW, they both got a place in the community where she lives, and he appeared to be living the high life while she couldn't afford insurance for herself or her kids. Fast forward to the present. His son calls him by his 1st name now and both his kids don't respect him or have much to do with him. I saw him a few months back and he looked like crap. He looks like the loser because everyone knows she's the one who has kept her family together. And a year ago she reconnected with her old BF of about 25 years ago who is a really great guy. The karma bus for the WS isn't always immediate.

As far as you, sometimes you have to look at your choices and just pick the one that sucks the least to begin moving forward. Getting on an AD was a good start. Try to fake being positive even if you aren't. Try to get out of victim mode and do what it takes to get your son to talk to you.

I talked to son yesterday and he said he is just too busy. He is at a ivy league school and taking challenging classes. He said his dad never calls and he can't remember the last email dad sent him as it was a while ago.
As far as karma, I do not believe in it. If I did, then karma must be what I am going thru and maybe is what I deserve. H has never been hit by karma bus, he had another A 4 years ago and this is his second. I do not see him as having life bog him down.
He does what he wants and does not care about others. He does not have a "worry" personality and the thoughts that go thru his mind are far more limited than mine. I think they spell
s e x and f u n
That's it: simple mind = simple problems.
Basically, he cares less.
blessings

Sounds to me like he's 100% Taker and 0% Giver. What would anyone see in a person like that?

Money and good looks. That's what OW saw.

I just do not know how cope with some people..and good thing I am on medications!
Just a few minutes ago a collegue came up to tell me that she learned about us separating and she said that maybe the A was a symptom of the M being really over...she has a Ph.D in psychology and her H left her a few years ago for OW.

I really put her thru the ringer telling her that us women have to stop saying that all men are imature and that they all end up leaving us for OW because M is unhappy. I said we have to stop putting the blame on us. H have a choice and they choose to cheat!

She said she did not agree because she believes my H was testing the waters with this OW to see if he really wanted her or me....and that he might have come back...I can't believe it!!!!!!!! And she has a Ph.D!!!!!!!!! And she is a victim of an A. She confessed that she was more than devastated by it. Still we take all the blame as women. I swear it is my mission from now on to set the record straight about A and cheating and I will not spare ANY detail about the way my H handled the A and the cruelty he put me and my family to.
I am demolishing his image and I hope the image of all the cheaters in the world!
blessing

"He does what he wants and does not care about others. He does not have a "worry" personality and the thoughts that go thru his mind are far more limited than mine. I think they spell
s e x and f u n
That's it: simple mind = simple problems.
Basically, he cares less."

So Atena, why would you want to be with a guy like that? Seems to me the karma bus has actually hit the OW and run her over now. You deserve way more than that guy!

Atena, living well is the BEST REVENGE. You will get through this dark valley. You just have to keep walking. Straight ahead. straight ahead, straight ahead.

Yes, I should be very happy to not have him around and as you can see it helps me write these things down because when I read your responses then i really tell myself: ehi they are right! Who would want to stay with a jerk like this?
BUT maybe he does not act like a jerk with OW. Him being in love with her will make him the nice and affectionate guy I knew when he was in love with me....

Atena, you are renting space in your head to your XH. Stop doing that. It only hurts you and does nothing to him.

You remember the love bank concept, right?
WH's love bank with OW is full enough for him to desire a rental relationship with her.
Once the love bank account falls below a certain level, it will require too much effort on WH's part to maintain that rental. WH will say something like:

"It's not working out. It is time to move on."

"We just were not meant to be together."

and the really funny one...

"I deserve better."

Well, a piled higher and deeper degree does not always add up to a pile of wisdom.

"The marriage was over" is very easily said when a person has a renter mentality about relationships/marriage.

I highly recommend Harley's book
Buyers Renters Freeloaders

You need to educate yourself about this.
That's my loving advice for you.

Take care...

Yes, Fred..I know, it is my thoughts that are killing me I am always thinking about what he is doing with her.
As Pepper said, he is in a shaky situation with OW and the issue here is beyond OW. He is broken, messed up, shattered and lost. If you forget about your son, your family (ok, I am not including myself as he hates me) but one's son?!!! Then you are really messed up!
blessing

And, the subtext of those thoughts probably sound like:

"Not fair!"
"Where is the justice?"
"Why did this happen to me? To us?"

You probably also have some "What if" obsessions too.

"What if I had done XYZ, would it have ended differently?"
"What if ......"

It's never ending unless you make a decision to end obsessive thinking.

One way to do that is to answer your own questions, OUT LOUD !
I used to do this when I was walking in a park.
It kept me busy and kept strangers at a distance, because I appeared crazy

You know, this is exactly what I see in my WXH and his OW. But the truth is, he's not really that guy. He's really just a rude, thoughtless, self-absorbed jerk who's still in the phase of trying to impress her, just like he used to try to impress me. I KNOW who he is now and can't be fooled again, but she doesn't. She'll find out, however, in due time.

Imagine this: once you are free of him (legally and emotionally), you will be able to find someone who is actually nice and affectionate - because that's the way he is, not because he's trying to entrap you!!!! These guys are out there. And they don't lie and cheat and they actually place value on people other than themselves. It's hard for women like us to imagine this because we've invested so much of our lives in the other kind. But believe me, these men do exist!!!

Atena,

I think you are in the anger phase, and that is very good because it means you are going through the right steps of grieving.

Hang on! it will get better.

Atena, you are challenged as I am by seeing WH at work. It is a reminder.

When I know I am going to see XH and OW I say a prayer, take a deep breath and ask God to put on my "shield of armor" to protect me. It really helps.

We all go through the woulda, coulda, shoulda. How many times have i thought if I could turn back time. We can't.

We have to play what we are dealt with. But keep that Ace up your sleeve. Don't let your WH see you as a victim, it feeds into their arrogance and fog. When they see you as confident then they start to crumble.

Keep praying, drive away negative thoughts and yes post here.

Athena, I know what you mean about your friends telling you to move on. I keep telling people that the one thing I am utterly sick of is defending MY decisions.

I keep getting people telling me that I need to move on. Good for me, now I can find someone who will treat me better. I am a good person and I deserve better. "Once a cheater, always a cheater." That I am CRAZY for even thinking about forgiving him, it's done and he moved on. It's OVER.

I tell some people about this website, and explain the concepts on here. I tell them that MB concepts also encourage PERSONAL R. That my Plan B is to help me R personally and to remove me from the drama as much as possible(sometimes I get drawn in a little with WH's dealings with DS's).

It gets tiring sometimes, but people have noticed that I do seem to be handling this well. I tell them that it has to do with MB concepts. Then I tell them that if it helps me handle it well, isn't that a good thing.

I agree with many of the posters on here. When I am having an "OFF" day because I am stressed about something, I stay off of certain people's threads. I have also read people's threads who have R(either their M or through D) and see how it is possible. I help new BS's when I can. I re-read the articles and concepts on here.

One thing I found helps the best is writing my own journal. It is something that noone else ever will see and I don't read it again, but it helps to get all of my feelings out.