Marriage Builders
Posted By: YEG 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 05/06/10 06:59 PM
First of all I read all the help on the MB website and the newbie threads. Very helpful and when you said that these are all remarkably similiar they wernt joking. many were IDENTICAL quotes.

Im a 33 year old BH. About 2 weeks ago my 33 Year old WW lost her job. While assuming control of alot of bills I found she was talking to the OM for HUNDREDS of hours on the phone and in text messages.

I immediatly went to a divorce attorney who set me up with a Private eye. It took them only 2 days to catch her. My d-day was 5/1/10.

Against my attorneys advice I confronted her the next day after she returned from her trip. When confronted with the details of her affair she admitted to me that she has been having the affair for over a year.

I forced her to confess to her parants(she needed some council since I was filing divorce papers for a adultery divorce in SC immediately)

She has since told the OM and he has confessed to his parents.

My lawyer advised me to exit the house and begin a seperation which I did. SHe was worried I could get manipulated into forgiving and voiding my adultery claim risking alimony)

1 problem. I still love my wife and want to give her another chance. I found the MB community and immediatly felt hope. I printed out all the advice to give to her that seemed to outlay a plan for recovery. I gave it to her and am making what efforts I can to meet her EN while staying out of the martial home. I have ordered 2 copies of SAA and am committed to the recovery plan and am currently putting Plan A into action.

Questions

the OM is a master sargent in the airforce. As a former Sailor of 9 years I know its against the UCMJ. I know the OM from 15 years ago but havent talked to him since. Should I inform his command or call him directly to avoid contact with her and threaten to inform his command?. SHe has begged me not to since she is claiming resposibilty but I see now that he is expected to do that. His parents do know and all 3 of our parents know each other.

I think I made a mistake and left the martial home sooner. I am supporting her and trying to provide for her EN instead of him. Trying to ween WW of OM. I feel I can only do so much outside the home. I am looking into a post nuptial aggreement option to protect my rights while attempting Reconciliation. Is the effective?


Or Is it better to stay away during the 3 week withdrawal period and then attempt to come back?

There is a risk of me smothering her now. She has lost her job and husband within 2 weeks. She says she needs some time to recover and process. I feel im showering her with too much attention now. How much should I give her?

Thank you in advance for any support. I sincerly appreciate it.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 07:27 PM
Welcome to MB. Sorry you are here. Having said that, this is the best place you can find yourself in a time like this.

You say that your In-Laws know and OMs parents know. How do you know that? Did your WW tell you that? Because Waywards LIE.

You are out of the house? Do you have intentions of moving back in? It will be easier to try to recover if you live together.
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 07:30 PM
I'm pretty new but I know one thing for sure:

GET YOUR A$$ BACK INTO THE HOUSE!

Others will help more.

Good luck.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 07:39 PM
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The OM is a master sargent in the airforce. As a former Sailor of 9 years I know its against the UCMJ. I know the OM from 15 years ago but havent talked to him since. Should I inform his command or call him directly to avoid contact with her and threaten to inform his command?. SHe has begged me not to since she is claiming resposibilty but I see now that he is expected to do that. His parents do know and all 3 of our parents know each other.

Yes, inform his command. A person in his position should not be committing adultery. He is not worthy of his position. Regardless of that, he will be given a direct order never to contact your WW again. If he violates it, he's toast, so he will DEFINITELY not contact your WW again.

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I think I made a mistake and left the martial home sooner. I am supporting her and trying to provide for her EN instead of him. Trying to ween WW of OM. I feel I can only do so much outside the home. I am looking into a post nuptial aggreement option to protect my rights while attempting Reconciliation. Is the effective?

What do you want? You need to decide. Do you want to TRY to reconcile, or do you want a divorce? As for protecting your rights, just don't have sex with her until you are convinced that she is back and committed to the relationship, or don't have sex with her until she signs a post-nup. Either way, if you decide you want to reconcile, the best way to do that is in the marital home.

[quote]Or Is it better to stay away during the 3 week withdrawal period and then attempt to come back?

It will be better for you to be away, but it may not be better for your marriage. If you are disciplined, stick with plan A, and don't let her get to you, then it is best for you to be there. You want her to transition from OM meeting her needs back to you. She'll likely do that if you are there. If you aren't, you risk someone else being there to do so.

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There is a risk of me smothering her now. She has lost her job and husband within 2 weeks. She says she needs some time to recover and process. I feel im showering her with too much attention now. How much should I give her?

You want to subtly meet some of her needs (like conversation) while avoiding love busting, conversation talk. Don't go overboard or over the top. Cook dinner, clean around the house, make small talk. That is all for now until she seems more receptive.

Again, you need to decide what YOU want to do. If you have no kids, it's perfectly fine to want to walk away. If you don't think she can stay faithful, that's fine if you want to walk away. It's your choice. But decide what you want, get a plan, and stick to that plan.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 08:01 PM
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You say that your In-Laws know and OMs parents know. How do you know that? Did your WW tell you that? Because Waywards LIE.


Thanks for the reply Scotland

I confronted her at her parents house. Since they were there they could watch the baby. After she confessed to me I told her she needed to confess ton her parents since she would need money for legal fees since I knew my lawyer was out for blood. I witnessed her confess to her father and mother so i know it occured. I can not confirm that OM parents know. I have avoided contact with them and the OM.

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You are out of the house? Do you have intentions of moving back in? It will be easier to try to recover if you live together.


My lawyer advised me to leave the house. So I did. I thought it was hopeless at first due to the duration and of the affair. It wasnt till after I had moved out and filed the inital complaint that I found MB and realized there was real hope.

I want to re enter the house but dont wanna lose the legal advantage I have. There is a concept in SC law called forgiveness. If it can be proved I forgive the past adultery I could open myself up financially considerably. I have a very good job and she is unemployed. I am consulting my lawyer but she wants me to finalize a 3 month SC divorce and only then go back. This is unacceptable to me and I dont want to lose my window of fighting for my wife.

I am talking to her on the phone and spending time in the day with her. I am just avoiding staying overnight with her. I am trying to support her EN though as best I can. I am fighting as hard as I can using the tools ive found here.

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I'm pretty new but I know one thing for sure:

GET YOUR A$$ BACK INTO THE HOUSE!


Thanks MargieLoll . I want to. I just dont wanna give up another form of pressure. THe legal pressure of the copious amounts of documentation I have. I paid $2400 on one night of a PI chaseing WW across 2 states. I just dont wanna run back blindly and I want to trust her intentions but I obviously cant. Since WW lie about anything.

Im almost afraid to eat dinner with her and the baby since she invited me over. I want to though so Im taking that risk.

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Yes, inform his command. A person in his position should not be committing adultery. He is not worthy of his position. Regardless of that, he will be given a direct order never to contact your WW again. If he violates it, he's toast, so he will DEFINITELY not contact your WW again.


Thanks jmwc95. I am afraid to only because she is begging me not to and she is seriously considering cutting off all contact with him. If she agrees and he continues I will use that avenue. I know at a minimum they will issue a direct order to kill contact with WW. It seems better for her to come to the decision without threats than with them.

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You want to subtly meet some of her needs (like conversation) while avoiding love busting, conversation talk. Don't go overboard or over the top. Cook dinner, clean around the house, make small talk. That is all for now until she seems more receptive.


Im offering to do stuff with her she wanted me to do before. Like day trips I was too "busy at work" to do before. Im doing the stuff I should have been doing all along to prevent the affair.

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Again, you need to decide what YOU want to do. If you have no kids, it's perfectly fine to want to walk away. If you don't think she can stay faithful, that's fine if you want to walk away.


i have a child age 4. i also love my WW and dont want to lose her. So im fighting for her.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 08:05 PM
Who is your lawyer, Dr. Nick Riviera? I have always heard that you should NEVER leave your house. It absolutely kills your custody rights. Who is getting custody per the separation?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
Who is your lawyer, Dr. Nick Riviera? I have always heard that you should NEVER leave your house. It absolutely kills your custody rights. Who is getting custody per the separation?

I moved out 1 day before we filed the complaint. The lawyer said it was a minimal risk since the there was such a small period of time between filing of the complaint (first formal court notice) and seperation. It was only 1 day. It would have been worse for me to sleep with her and get accused of forgiving her and lose my grounds of adultery.

Legally she is screwed. I have photo evidence from a licsenced Private eye. Its a third party and very compelling in court. I also have 12 months of contact with him for sometimes hours a day. legally im in a very strong position. Custody is the only weak area since I am a shift worker and she is a stay at home mother(albiet forced due to her getting fired). If the divorce does go through Im allowing her to have primary custodial rights since IMO its better for the child due to our work schedules.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 09:26 PM
IF you want to save your marriage, exposing to the OM's CO is NOT optional. They are addicted, and unless given a reason to not contact each other, they will continue. Read up on Gerkaguards story. His WW and OM are both Army officers. He exposed to both of their chains of command and there is an investigation underway. It's the best chance you have at saving your marriage.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/06/10 09:32 PM
Why are you worried about saving OMs job anyways? Your WW and OM didn't give a crap about you. You need to expose this to anyone who can put pressure on the affair. You will not use it as leverage. It is not to be done out of retaliation. It is done because it needs to be done and it is the right thing to do if you want to do it the MB way.
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If the divorce does go through Im allowing her to have primary custodial rights since IMO its better for the child due to our work schedules.

So, because it's better for your daughter to stay with her mother and be exposed to the OM due to your work schedules? Are you not concerned with your daughter learning that having affairs is what you do when you get the least bit unhappy in a marriage?
YEG,

Before you start making decisions to counter your lawyer, who is protect YOU by the way. AND, before I offer you any advice I would like to know something.

WHERE DOES YOUR w STAND ON THINGS RIGHT NOW?

Has she ceased contact with OM?

Does she say she wants to save the marriage?

What actions has she taken to indicate that she wants to save the marriage?

What actions is she willing to do to indicate she wants to save the marriage?

Are you willing to remarry her if there were a divorce and she made things safe for you?

Has she given any indication as to why she had this affair and why she would not have another affair?

I look forward to your answers.

JL
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 02:34 AM
Thanks for all the responces

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WHERE DOES YOUR w STAND ON THINGS RIGHT NOW?


I confronted her with the affair on Sunday may 2nd. WW tried to lie at first but when presented with the very detailed accounts of her night the PI was following her she confessed.

I didnt present her with the option of a possible reconciliation without a divorce till yesterday May 5th. I admit my first reaction was to divorce and be done. When i presented it to her I brought to her the MB series on coping with and infedility and asked her to read it. She is stil punchdrunk but has made process in the packet, and Our SAA copies are on their way.

She is still very lost. Today i think the alien let her loose for the first time. WW confessed to me that she is still considering the NC and will have the answer soon. We spent dinner together where I used tools here to show her the type of man i can be for her.

The conversation was draining us both and I needed space. so i politly left on good terms.

So nutshell she is still deceding if she wants to do NC.

How long should I let her decide]\

She has had almost no contact since the A is that possitive at this early stage?

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Does she say she wants to save the marriage?

She told me today that she has not given up on our marriage. She also has says she is almost sure how long it will take. How long should I give her?

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What actions has she taken to indicate that she wants to save the marriage?
Invited me over for dinner and time with my daughter. She cooked for me and bought pasteries for desserts. she talked to me about the subject openly and honestly. She just didnt know what her final decision will be yet.

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What actions is she willing to do to indicate she wants to save the marriage?


She made a good dinner and invited me to ride to charlotte with her for a day trip. Day trips were always something i avoided but I accepted to show her I will meet that need.

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Are you willing to remarry her if there were a divorce and she made things safe for you?


Yes, I am also ready to stop the process if she makes a committment to SAA and MB way. Also has to commit to NC with the OM. Im forming a gameplan based onif she accepts the NC. If she doesnt then the divorce procedes at a breakneck pace.

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Has she given any indication as to why she had this affair and why she would not have another affair



4 years ago WW EA began after she had our daughter. I contractor working country wide. I had to care for my new child and wife. She felt abandoned with a new born she was afraid of. she turned to her Hish school best friend for help instead of me since I couldnt meet that need. He was stastioned in KOREA but was able to talk to her and meet her need.

PA appeared because I wasnt doing the recreational activities i should be. I was lazy and didnt wanna go on a day trip. Not thanking her for dinner.

So WW went to florida to see a Gin blossoms concert with the OM and it grew from there.

She is answering what She will do for not having another affair now. She is still thinking.

I just dont know how longer I shoud permit that.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 03:47 AM
YEG,

You just don't get it yet. You don't understand how affairs work. Leaving it up to your WW to abide by NC for life on a several year long affair is so utterly foolish. Your WW is an addict and she CAN'T go full NC. It is IMPOSSIBLE for her. She's not going to do it. Sure, she may agree to it for a while, but eventually the addiction will kick in and she'll find a way to go behind your back and contact him again. Then you'll wonder why things aren't getting better until eventually your marriage continues to go downhill and you get divorced. It's completely predictable. She will not go NC on her own. If you are too proud for her not to choose you and only you right now, then go ahead with the divorce.

However, if you want to save your marriage, this is what you do. Expose to OM's CO. I will give you a 99% chance of recovering your marriage if you do that. OM will be completely out of the picture. You may be WW's second choice now, but once you are through recovery, she'll thank you for fighting for her during these difficult times, and you'll be her first choice the rest of your lives if you continue to follow the MB program.

YEG, you don't even realize how easy you have it. Most of the BH's would kill to be in your position. The steps to marital recovery are:

1) Kill the affair.
2) Rebuild your marriage.

You have the magic bullet to save your marriage and solve your problems and you won't even use it. What a shame.
Posted By: americajin Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 04:20 AM
YEG, you need to contact this guy's unit commander. If you don't want the guy to get into serious trouble you could always state in your letter that if all contact ceases immediately, you don't need it to go any further. Personally, I don't see why you'd want to do that. If some guy was trying to break up my marriage and putting me at risk of losing custody of my kids, and he was burning in front of me, I wouldn't piss on him to put out the flames, but that's just me.
Posted By: RIF Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 06:02 AM
Hi YEG - Welcome to MB.

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WW confessed to me that she is still considering the NC and will have the answer soon.


IMHO, there is no "consideration" for NC. If you truely want a chance to rebuild your M, then you need to expose to OM's C-of-C... don't wait for your W's decision, and don't let her know when you expose... she will find out soon enough when OM contacts her again.

Semper Fi,

RIF
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 11:46 AM

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She has since told the OM and he has confessed to his parents.

How do you know this? Don't believe anything your WW or her OM say.

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My lawyer advised me to exit the house and begin a seperation which I did. SHe was worried I could get manipulated into forgiving and voiding my adultery claim risking alimony)

Is this so important to you that you are willing to lose your marriage and avoid alimony, as opposed to saving your M and not having an alimony issue at all?

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the OM is a master sargent in the airforce. As a former Sailor of 9 years I know its against the UCMJ. I know the OM from 15 years ago but havent talked to him since. Should I inform his command or call him directly to avoid contact with her and threaten to inform his command?.

Expose this scumbag and let him deal with the consequences. Your WW didn't make him commit adultery on her own.

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Or Is it better to stay away during the 3 week withdrawal period and then attempt to come back?
I'm no attorney, but I AM an adultery survivor. As a survivor, I would tell you to GO HOME. And what's a three week withdrawal period? There is no set time for going through withdrawal. But I CAN tell you this: withdrawal cannot begin until No Contact has been established. And she's probably not going to be able to establish NC if she's sitting at home with no job, nothing to do, except pick up the phone and talk. Who do you think she's going to call?

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She says she needs some time to recover and process. I feel im showering her with too much attention now. How much should I give her?

Your M needs your attention right now. She can process everything with you there. If you aren't there she's an addict whose bottle (the cell phone) is constantly in reach and there's no one to stop her from using again.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 12:38 PM
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You just don't get it yet. You don't understand how affairs work. Leaving it up to your WW to abide by NC for life on a several year long affair is so utterly foolish. Your WW is an addict and she CAN'T go full NC. It is IMPOSSIBLE for her. She's not going to do it.


I dont know how affairs work. Its hard for me because I did nothing but trust her for years. Now Ive gotta assume everything that is coming out of her mouth is a lie.

We spent time together last night and I told her about the MB way of informing all parties. I told her I was getting advice that I needed to inform his command. She said "please don't" and said she does not respond well to ultimatums.

Im not trying to protect that but im afraid it has the possibility of alienating my wife forever.

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IMHO, there is no "consideration" for NC. If you truely want a chance to rebuild your M, then you need to expose to OM's C-of-C... don't wait for your W's decision, and don't let her know when you expose... she will find out soon enough when OM contacts her again.


She told me she just needed a couple more days to decide. Can that hurt? Wouldnt it be better for her to decide on her own? To choose me over him then hold her accountable.

She hasnt committed to NC yet. God I want her too but im afraid if I try to push her too hard towards it will push her away.

Posted By: MargieLoll Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
She said "please don't" and said she does not respond well to ultimatums.

There's no ultimatum, it's not "do this or else". There is no option. Do it. If she establishes NC-still do it.

Originally Posted by YEG
Im not trying to protect that but im afraid it has the possibility of alienating my wife forever.

She will get over it. They almost always do.

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 01:10 PM
[quote=YEG] We spent time together last night and I told her about the MB way of informing all parties. I told her I was getting advice that I needed to inform his command. She said "please don't" and said she does not respond well to ultimatums.

Im not trying to protect that but im afraid it has the possibility of alienating my wife forever.

[quote]

Do NOT discuss exposure with her! You are putting her on notice and she will have time to spin the story before you do it! By the time you expose, she will have already gotten to your contacts and told them that you are a.going through depression and are experiencing psychotic breaks that make you think she's having an affair, or b. You're going through mid-life crisis and for some weird reason have decided she's having an A with the military guy, maybe because you've always been jealous of him, blah blah blah.

Tell her you've rethought your position on exposing and that you won't do it! LIE to her about this!!!

Don't mention this site anymore, either! You are giving away all of your tools to combat this affair, YEG. I think you're doing that as a way of reasoning with her so she'll see the light. Well, she's NOT GOING TO SEE THE LIGHT.

No more MarriageBuilders talk until she's established NC and you've exposed. Can you do that?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 01:14 PM
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She told me she just needed a couple more days to decide. Can that hurt? Wouldnt it be better for her to decide on her own? To choose me over him then hold her accountable.

She hasnt committed to NC yet. God I want her too but im afraid if I try to push her too hard towards it will push her away.

You can't push someone into someone else's arms when they're already there, YEG.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
You just don't get it yet. You don't understand how affairs work. Leaving it up to your WW to abide by NC for life on a several year long affair is so utterly foolish. Your WW is an addict and she CAN'T go full NC. It is IMPOSSIBLE for her. She's not going to do it.


I dont know how affairs work. Its hard for me because I did nothing but trust her for years. Now Ive gotta assume everything that is coming out of her mouth is a lie.

We spent time together last night and I told her about the MB way of informing all parties. I told her I was getting advice that I needed to inform his command. She said "please don't" and said she does not respond well to ultimatums.

Im not trying to protect that but im afraid it has the possibility of alienating my wife forever.

Quote
IMHO, there is no "consideration" for NC. If you truely want a chance to rebuild your M, then you need to expose to OM's C-of-C... don't wait for your W's decision, and don't let her know when you expose... she will find out soon enough when OM contacts her again.


She told me she just needed a couple more days to decide. Can that hurt? Wouldnt it be better for her to decide on her own? To choose me over him then hold her accountable.

She hasnt committed to NC yet. God I want her too but im afraid if I try to push her too hard towards it will push her away.

You don't negotiate with terrorists, and you don't negotiate with a WW either. Quit telling her about marriage builders. Trying to educate a WS is a love buster. You don't get it. WSs cannot be reasoned with. You need to kill the affair first, then you can reason with her once she has gotten through the withdrawal of her addiciton. Sure she'll say that she won't forgive you if you tell OM's command. That would kill her affair for good. She doesn't want that. She wants to be able to keep her options open. Quit telling her about the advice you are getting on here. She will only use it against you. If you expose to OM's CoC, you will alienate your WW - for about 3 weeks. After she gets through the worst of withdrawal, she's going to want some man meet her needs, and she's going to gravitate toward the father of her child. You need to understand, she's not your wife anymore. She's an addict, incapable of making rational decisions. You need to help make those decisions for her if you want to protect your family.

Here are my thoughts. You can either:

1) Not expose to OM's CoC, he continues to contact your WW, you get divorced, then it's legal for him to be with your WW, and he's raising your child.

2) Expose to OM's CoC, your WW is pissed for a month, and then after withdrawal is complete, you use the MB principles to recover your marriage, and YOU raise your child.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
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She told me she just needed a couple more days to decide. Can that hurt? Wouldnt it be better for her to decide on her own? To choose me over him then hold her accountable.

She hasnt committed to NC yet. God I want her too but im afraid if I try to push her too hard towards it will push her away.

You can't push someone into someone else's arms when they're already there, YEG.

And you can't push someone into someone else's arms when that someone else has been given a DIRECT ORDER not to contact your WW or it will be the end of his military career.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 03:37 PM
UPDATE

I took the first step for exposure today. I told her friend that she was "staying at" when she cheated about the affair. She was shocked. She asked me what I felt she should do with the information. I didnt have the answer.

When I contact people what SHOULD I say? I told her it wasnt about punishment. It was about exposing it to the light.

I also contacted my lawyer and said I didnt want a divorce. She said I could see her but not to stay overnight and sleep in the same bed.

Is that acceptable in the MB way? Honestly I expect her to freak out when she finds out the exposure.

Her friend said I was maybe doing the wrong thing informing her friends since my wife is such a private person naturally. Am I?


I spent last night with her. We talked about the relationship. Should I do that? She hasnt committed to NC yet.

What should I do in the house with her? we had a nice dinner last night and spent time with the baby. Its very emotionally draining though.

If I get too drained do I back off a bit?

Posted By: MargieLoll Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 03:43 PM
1) Expose to EVERYONE right now. Not one person at a time here and there. If you do that it will lose its effect. Say that your WW is having an affair. You would like to save your marriage and you would appreciate their support in helping you do that. Others here will be able to say it better.

2) Are you doing Plan A? Not staying overnight and not staying in the same bed is ok, even in Plan A I believe as long as you are just putting your best foot forward. Again, others here can help more on that.

2) You shouldn't get into deep conversations about the relationship right now. Just insist she implement NC asap and continue your best Plan A.

Good luck! Sorry I can't help more.
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 03:56 PM
I'm not a legal whizz by any means, but I'm pretty sure that having sex again is viewed as implied forgiveness in some states. I would definitely follow your lawyer's advice on that one.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
UPDATE

I took the first step for exposure today. I told her friend that she was "staying at" when she cheated about the affair. She was shocked. She asked me what I felt she should do with the information. I didnt have the answer.

When I contact people what SHOULD I say? I told her it wasnt about punishment. It was about exposing it to the light.

I also contacted my lawyer and said I didnt want a divorce. She said I could see her but not to stay overnight and sleep in the same bed.

Is that acceptable in the MB way? Honestly I expect her to freak out when she finds out the exposure.

Her friend said I was maybe doing the wrong thing informing her friends since my wife is such a private person naturally. Am I?


I spent last night with her. We talked about the relationship. Should I do that? She hasnt committed to NC yet.

What should I do in the house with her? we had a nice dinner last night and spent time with the baby. Its very emotionally draining though.

If I get too drained do I back off a bit?

You are in the process of "Exposure Lite", trickling the exposure out here and there. This will NOT be an effective exposure and may well backfire on you. The exposure has to be done to all contacts, all at once, as a tsunami.

Get your list together now. Who can exert pressure on your WW and her OM to end this A? His CO, his family, your family, hers, all of her friends, FB friends of both of them.

Do not trickle this out, YEG. Your WW can be as private a person as she wants, but committing adultery isn't the act of a private person. Privacy is for when you go to the bathroom. SECRECY is what she is involved in, deceptive, cruel, marriage-threatening SECRECY.

I'm not sure where your attorney is coming from. Have you talked to other attorneys? The last thing I would consider would be leaving my unfaithful spouse.

Dealing with an A is emotionally draining, with her or without her. It's going to require some strength, YEG. Muscle up and prepare to save your M.
Posted By: RIF Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 05:31 PM
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Im not trying to protect that but im afraid it has the possibility of alienating my wife forever.


Hi YEG - She obviously wasn't worried about alienating YOU forever by sleeping with the OM. Why are you protecting her "honor" and the OM???

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She told me she just needed a couple more days to decide. Can that hurt?


Sure it can hurt! She will have time to warn the OM, and possibly even his command... OM-"You see commander, there's this crazy guy, and he's been stalking me for over a year. He's probably going to give you a call and tell you that I've been having an affair with his wife..." or OM to his wife-"Yeah, you know YEG, he's gone off the deep end! He actually thinks that I've been having an affair with his wife... I can't believe it... I feel so sorry for YEGand his wife."

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Wouldnt it be better for her to decide on her own?


Want to be me $100.00 that her answer will be *** NO! *** ?

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God I want her too but im afraid if I try to push her too hard towards it will push her away.


YEG - She's ALREADY away from you.... she's been with the OM and she misses HIM. You're getting great advice from people who have been where you are... Those of us that have been around here have seen this very same situation over and over and over. You can take the advice given you, and form a plan and act, or you can pick bits and pieces of the advice that you like, but I can assure you that it won't be nearly as successful.

I know that this is hard, but if you want to save your M, you need to expose it and have your W cut off all contact with the OM forever.

Semper Fi,

RIF
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 05:43 PM
When you expose, you need to let the people know that you are willing to save your marriage. That you know that there will be no possibility in that if the OM is still in the picture. You ask them for their advice and help. Let them know that they need to speak to your WW and let her know how they feel about the affair.

You need to do this in a NUCLEAR way.

Your Dear Wife is GONE. You have a WAYWARD wife. She looks like your dear wife but she is a LIAR. You need to do what you can to protect yourself from this enemy to your marriage.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 07:58 PM
Thank you all for the support. I would have been so clueless without yall.

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You need to do this in a NUCLEAR way.

ironically im in the nuclear community.

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You are in the process of "Exposure Lite", trickling the exposure out here and there. This will NOT be an effective exposure and may well backfire on you. The exposure has to be done to all contacts, all at once, as a tsunami.

Ive disabled the forums on the router at the house now. So i feel fairly safe posting here now after telling her.

I was a coward and was afraid to do it myself. My best friend at work contacted the command for me when he saw the pain I was going though Did I screw up?

He contacted his first sargeant. I belive this is the air force equivalent of the command master chief in navy terms. he informed him that the OM was having an affair with a married woman for over a year. He offered to provide the private eye report and phone records.

The First Sargeant was SHOCKED at the allegations. Apparently OM is a model airman. He committed to contacting him in the next day or so and responding back. I will be sure to follow up and if I dont recieve a response in the next day or so im going to contact the IGs office as reccomended.

Im not spiteful but im coming to realise he needs to be held responsible for his actions. Hopefully this will scare him off. They have known each other for a long time and were ex fiances at one time. Im hoping he wont sacrifice his career for her. WS claims OM never asked WS to leave me for him. Is that important or is that just trying to protect him?


Ive got my copy of SAA and im implementing plan A with no reservations. Im exposing her to everyone.

Im contacting all her friends that I can find including the ones she claims to have talked too.

Im studying the website and book like it was the bible. Im trusting the MB way and God to help me through this.


Honesty time though. Im scared to death. Im afraid of this. I felt that she was about ready to swear NC and I may alienate her forever. Im trusting the process and Im doing it anyways but im afraid of whats going to happen when she finds out.


Im no longer informing her about this website. Im trying to correct my past mistakes handling this.

Questions

I asked her if she wants to watch a movie with me today. This is one of the EN I wasnt meeting before. Is this a wrong move?

Im afraid of trying TOO hard and smothering her. She agreed to watch it with me. Is this a trap?


I also asked her if she wanted to go out of town the weekend. Just a small trip to a city about an hour away to shop for the childs Bday. She also agreed with this.

Is this a mistake?

im trying so hard to fight now. Im calculating and orchastrating all the contact I do with her now.

Thanks for the guidance. I need the help.
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 08:01 PM
I don't think asking her to watch a movie and go on a trip was a mistake at all. BUT does she realize you've exposed her yet? And that you called the OM's command? Just be prepared that she may change her answers when she finds all that out.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 08:13 PM
Boy, you are all out of sorts. Calm down. Take a deep breath. She won't recommit to the marriage for probably at least six months, so you will completely wear yourself out over this if you don't know how to manage your stress. If you need it, you might want to take some anti-depressants to help get you through this. I know I needed some back when I was in your situation.

I'm glad your friend did what you weren't able to do. (It also has the added benefit of her not being able to blame you.) I would follow up with OM's chain of command and give them your evidence just to make sure this isn't just swept under the rug.

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I asked her if she wants to watch a movie with me today. This is one of the EN I wasnt meeting before. Is this a wrong move?

No, you are meeting her need of recreational companionship. Now, it isn't the best thing to reconnect because you are going to spend 2 hours not talking to each other, but if she likes movies, then this is a good thing.

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Im afraid of trying TOO hard and smothering her. She agreed to watch it with me. Is this a trap?

Put on a good face. If she acts like you are smothering her, cool it for a little bit. It's a complicated dance. You'll know when she's agreeable to spending time with you and when she isn't. Paranoid? How could it be a trap?

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I also asked her if she wanted to go out of town the weekend. Just a small trip to a city about an hour away to shop for the childs Bday. She also agreed with this.

Is this a mistake?

No. Why would it be. When you are hanging out with her, just keep the conversation light. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK. Even if she starts it (she may try to bait you into a fight). Talk about current events, joke around, just be charming and humorous.

You'll do fine. Just keep coming back here when you need us.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by MargieLoll
I don't think asking her to watch a movie and go on a trip was a mistake at all. BUT does she realize you've exposed her yet? And that you called the OM's command? Just be prepared that she may change her answers when she finds all that out.

Ditto to that. Once she finds you have (or you friend has) exposed to OM's command, she'll be pretty awful to you for about 2-3 weeks. Just expect it, and prepare to deal with it. Don't get baited into any fights. Let her vent and walk away. Do not try to explain. No explanation is going to be good enough. She'll get it out of her system in a few weeks. In the meantime lay low and avoid lovebusting.

Read up on all the basic concepts, articles and Q&A columns at the top of the page, and get a good idea on her ENs and your LBs. Work to get that straightened out for a very good plan A. Learn to show discipline and control yourself during her outbursts.

Where you going this weekend? Charleston? I lived in Florence, South Cakalaki in 2002-2005.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 08:48 PM
Quote
I don't think asking her to watch a movie and go on a trip was a mistake at all. BUT does she realize you've exposed her yet? And that you called the OM's command? Just be prepared that she may change her answers when she finds all that out.

No she doesn't. The OM work hammer most likely wont fall until sunday or monday. Im sure i will know exactly when it happens though.


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Where you going this weekend? Charleston? I lived in Florence, South Cakalaki in 2002-2005.

We are heading to Charlotte NC. OM is actually at Shaw AFB. I think hes in intellegence (no pun intended)


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Boy, you are all out of sorts. Calm down. Take a deep breath. She won't recommit to the marriage for probably at least six months, so you will completely wear yourself out over this if you don't know how to manage your stress. If you need it, you might want to take some anti-depressants to help get you through this. I know I needed some back when I was in your situation.

I have been on anti depressants for a while. Physically I feel better than I have in years though. The 3 day D Day unplanned fast cleansed my system and ive been eatting healthy since then since I can only handle lite fresh foods ATM.

Im trying to not get worked up. I just didnt realize how much I loved my wife till i found out. I realized that I had been neglecting her for years. There is alot of guilt I have for that on my side.

Im worried about the OM since they have been close for so long. They were engaged at one time. In retrospect I was the OM back then. I was providing for her EN. They had their own problems but I drove a stake in their relationship as well.

I think that is partially why he had the affair with her. He feels I ruined their engagement. They werent married though and they have no kids. They were engaged for maybe a year and it was already on the rocks when I entered the picture.

Weve been married for 7 years. i fear him and what he is doing for to me and my family. Now I find out she has been having an EA on and off with OM for almost 4 years. Im afraid I wont be able to beat him
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 09:03 PM
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Im worried about the OM since they have been close for so long. They were engaged at one time. In retrospect I was the OM back then. I was providing for her EN. They had their own problems but I drove a stake in their relationship as well.

I think that is partially why he had the affair with her. He feels I ruined their engagement. They werent married though and they have no kids. They were engaged for maybe a year and it was already on the rocks when I entered the picture.

Do you watch The Office? Here is a quote for you: "BFD, it's not married." Sure, in retrospect it might not have been a good idea to get involved with a woman who was engaged because that shows a willingness to jump from one relationship to the next, but the past is the past, and she wasn't married.

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Weve been married for 7 years. i fear him and what he is doing for to me and my family. Now I find out she has been having an EA on and off with OM for almost 4 years. Im afraid I wont be able to beat him

Guess what? You have the LAW on your side. I'm sure he does not want to ruin his military career and leave with nothing but a dishonorable discharge. Now, I would defer to RIF on this, he's done some adultery investigations in his time, but as long as he isn't booted out of the military, I don't think you'll have to worry about him again because he'll fear the consequences of contacting your WW again. He's the one that will need to be afraid of YOU. Hopefully, RIF will post on here with more detail later. He's currently in Iraq, so it's probably midnight over there now. He usually posts from 11pm-3pm. He can guide you through this process to make sure you don't have to worry about OM again.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 10:35 PM
YEG, watch my virtual lips: NUCLEUR EXPOSURE!!!! You are Exposing Lite!!! Hit everyone NOW! OM is going to go to your WW as soon as he's approached by his CO. They will know what you are doing and they will proceed with damage control.

Nooo

Sure, take her out of town. Then tell her EVERYONE IN THE FREE WORLD KNOWS. Let her blow her stack.

Stop reacting in FEAR, YEG! Did you not read my story?????
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 10:41 PM
I don't get it. BHs lately seem to be folding like paper in front of their WWs.

EXPOSE. NUCLEAR. EVERYONE! NOW!

YOUR MARRIAGE CAN SURVIVE HER ANGER BUT NOT HER AFFAIR!
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 11:12 PM
It's not just the BHs it's all the BSs and it is frustrating. Sorry Yeg. Listen to BLISS.

Noone who posts on here regrets exposing. The only thing regretted is not exposing, exposing too slowly or not exposing enough. We have enough of those people on here. So EXPOSE already. DO IT.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/07/10 11:16 PM
Why do you ask if you 'screwed up' by letting his command know about the affair, when this is what we were trying to get you to do yourself?

The cat is out of the bag so to speak now. Complete the exposure tonight. It is far more effective if you tell everyone as soon as possible. Your WW will be furious, but it is better to have her angry initially, instead of drawn out over time. Trust me on this one.

I know it is scary. I was scared too. It's time to get over your fears and 'man up' for your marriage.

What advice would you give to a friend in the exact same position that you are currently in? Well, we are your friends and we are giving you some solid advice here, backed up by many who have used this MB principles and come out the other end in much better shape (some recovered, some not).
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:08 AM
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YEG, watch my virtual lips: NUCLEUR EXPOSURE!!!! You are Exposing Lite!!! Hit everyone NOW! OM is going to go to your WW as soon as he's approached by his CO. They will know what you are doing and they will proceed with damage control.


Ive gone Nuclear as yall are speaking now. Im taking your advice.

I KNOW the following people know. Either by telling them myself or witnessing her tell them.

-Her mom and dad.
-Her sister
-People close friends at church.
-ALL her friends but 2 (I dont have their home numbers and couldnt reach them at work.) I WILL contact them ASAP
-Her old job the WW just got fired from
-OM parents
-OM military command

Her father appears vehemently on my side. (I know cant quite trust him) and when I mentioned that getting OM to stop contact was key he said "dont even wanna know what im doing"

I am 90% sure she got the first calls tonite. We spent the afternoon together. While together WW got a few texts from her friends but didnt call them back. When i called back later WW was very short.

BS- How are You?
WW-Fine
BS How was your night?
WW Fine
BS I am looking forward to the trip tommorow.
WW (just muttered)

This is her natural reaction to trouble. She clams up. Weird thing was that she still agreed to go with me. Not sure why?

The storm is brew. Hopefully we can have a good day before it goes to poop.

Ill be honest the last few days I feel like a man. Standing up and being proud. Not a lapdog begging for scraps. I feel really proud for standing up for my marriage.
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:11 AM
OMG I'm so happy for and proud of you! Good job and congrats!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:15 AM
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Stop reacting in FEAR, YEG! Did you not read my story?????


I couldnt find it. Can you link or PM it please?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:19 AM
Quick question. Alot of my family and stuff are upset of the way im exposing WW. They think its gonna backfire.

Can you give me a few statements that I can throw at them when they ask?
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:25 AM
Affairs are based on and carried on in secrecy. The more people you expose to, the less secrecy they have. Plus the more people who know and can support you in the fight to save your marriage.
Posted By: Gerkaguards Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:30 AM
In the end, it doesn't matter what people think. As long as you know you're doing the right thing. Blow it wide open.
Posted By: Mr_Recon6mo Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 05:08 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quick question. Alot of my family and stuff are upset of the way im exposing WW. They think its gonna backfire.

Of course they do think so, as you did yourself few posts ago. And as we all BS-s do.

But ask yourself, how many marriages they have saved? The founder of MB strongly insists to expose and he has saved tons of marriages.

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Can you give me a few statements that I can throw at them when they ask?

In order to save your marriage, you have to kill this affair, your WW won't do this yourself as you have already seen.

The main statement should be - I'll do anything to save my marriage.

Posted By: nesre Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 05:31 AM
Yeg


Originally Posted By: YEGQuick question.
" Alot of my family and stuff are upset of the way im exposing WW. They think its gonna backfire."

Exposure is the best tool that a BS can use to KILL an A
You can live with anger FROM YOUR SPOUSE in the M but it won't survive with a 3rd person.


FROM THE NEWSLETTER:
So when a betrayed spouse asks for my advice, I usually take the position that infidelity is the greatest betrayal of all. After an affair, trust -- an essential ingredient in marriage -- is dashed. If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
The rest of the article.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2266646#Post2266646

nESRE
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 11:11 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quick question. Alot of my family and stuff are upset of the way im exposing WW. They think its gonna backfire.

Can you give me a few statements that I can throw at them when they ask?

The marriage counselor who I'm consulting specializes and infidelity, and he strongly recommended it. His philosophy is the best way to save your marriage is to kill the affair, and the best way to kill the affair is to expose your WS to the consequences of their actions. Affairs are like any other addiction (gambling, alcohol) and cheating spouses will only end their affairs when the consequences are too great to continue them. Basically, it's tough love.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 11:13 AM
Thanks guys.

Nesre thanks for linking that. SAA sometimes reads different to me than whats suggested on here. Amplifying information helps alot.

I talked to my parents yesterday. They already knew but i told them I was 100% committed to saving my marriage. I explained them that exposure was PARAMOUNT. That we had to cut A off at the head.

They also sounded like I did. That informing his command was harse. I told them that they BOTH did this together. He knew we were married. There are consequences he well knew prior to commiting the A. Why feel sorry for him? Especially if exposing him to his command can SAVE my mariage.

My mother reluctantly agreed. She is just worried about the baby.

Ive got the faith of the newly converted in the MB way. Im following my PLAN A now.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 11:26 AM
To continue my explanation from the previous post:

Most WS "get over" exposure once they get through withdrawal from their affair partner and they can think clearly again. At the point, they understand that committing adultery is way worse than just telling people that your spouse is committing adultery. They were just pissed that you spoiled their affair and they will say anything to manipulate you into keeping their dirty secret and say anything once you have exposed to punish you.

Most WSs don't leave their BS after the A is over because they weren't going to leave the BS before the affair. Otherwise, they would have left BEFORE the affair. No, they simply wanted to get the needs met that weren't getting met by the BS. The BS was still meeting some of their needs, but not of all their most important ones to their satisfaction. So once the affair partner is out of the picture, they want their needs met, and some are better than none. This is the opportunity for the BS to start meeting the needs he/she wasn't and the affair partner was, and meeting these needs will get the WS fully on board again in the marriage. Then you can set up boundaries together to protect the marriage from outsiders in the future.

This is the psychology behind Dr. Harley's strategy for using exposure to fight affairs, and he's usually dead on.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 12:14 PM
Quote
This is the psychology behind Dr. Harley's strategy for using exposure to fight affairs, and he's usually dead on.

I understand the strategy and it makes sense. I buy into it. Im just like alot of guys are I think. My wife has always been private. Thats one of the factors that allowed this. Exposure went against the stuff Ive done for 7 years. Stuff ive been doing for the last 7 years obviously hasnt been right.

I realise now it was the correct thing to do. Im glad I did it. I know the storm that is brewing though.
Posted By: saynomore Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 12:36 PM
I'm so sorry for what you are going through, Yeg. You are so fortunate to have found MB before you went through what many of us have all ready lived through. There is no way of dealing with an A that is easy or that does not hurt.

I am still fighting the symptoms of PTSD because I handled my H's A so poorly. I set the R bar too low. I am convinced that any way but the MB way is like being raped and having your rapist move in next door to you. You tell yourself that chances are that he will never do it again but you live in constant terror and anxiety.

Make MB counseling a requirement of you staying in the M once she is out of her fog. You are doing great,Yeg. Some BSs take weeks or months to change their thinking and take the action that you have taken in the last 24 hours.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
I couldnt find it. Can you link or PM it please?

I thought I'd posted it on your thread. Sorry about the chastising blush

Here ya go, in a reply on Andy's thread last week:

andy, in my sitch the OWH:
1. Wussed around for 3 months, crabbing at his W that he didn't like her having a 'special friend' who was male. She said he was "too controlling." So he shut up because he didn't want to make her mad. AND THE AFFAIR CONTINUED.

2. Threatened to expose the affair to me. And wussed out. OW and my FWH decided he was all bluff. AND THE AFFAIR CONTINUED.

3. Threatened to expose to their employer. She started coming into the breakroom every day, talking about what a jealous nutcase her H was and how she hated him, they were going to end up divorced because of it, etc. See what she was doing? She was spinning the potential exposure because he warned her he was going to do it. AND THE AFFAIR CONTINUED.

4. Called my FWH, in a 'man-to-man' talk, to convince my H to stop seeing his W. My H agreed that the relationship 'may' have started to drift into an inappropriate situation. But of course he was in the fog, AND THE AFFAIR CONTINUED.

5. Called his MIL to tell her what her daughter was up to. WW didn't listen to the one lone voice in the wilderness. AND THE AFFAIR CONTINUED.

Finally, FINALLY, after dinking around for over THREE MONTHS, OWH exposed the A to their employer, their friends, the rest of their families, and ME.

THE AFFAIR ENDED THAT DAY.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Thanks guys.

Nesre thanks for linking that. SAA sometimes reads different to me than whats suggested on here. Amplifying information helps alot.

I talked to my parents yesterday. They already knew but i told them I was 100% committed to saving my marriage. I explained them that exposure was PARAMOUNT. That we had to cut A off at the head.

They also sounded like I did. That informing his command was harse. I told them that they BOTH did this together. He knew we were married. There are consequences he well knew prior to commiting the A. Why feel sorry for him? Especially if exposing him to his command can SAVE my mariage.

My mother reluctantly agreed. She is just worried about the baby.

Ive got the faith of the newly converted in the MB way. Im following my PLAN A now.

Ya done good, YEG! hurray Expect some negative reactions to the exposure. These will come from ignorant folks. And I'm not being mean, here, but they ARE ignorant in killing affairs. That is not their area of expertise, correct? Remember that. Do not be deterred from what needs to be done. In the end they will understand, but for now their opinion of exposure is of little value. What IS of value is that they support you in trying to save your M.

YEG! hurray
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 01:11 PM
First friend called

We were supposed to go to Charlotte today. I get to the house at 8 AM and shes still in bed. I made her coffee and set it up by bed with a card I got for her.

WW out of bed. MAD I made her coffee and ignored the card. WW took a shower and went down stairs. I asked her how the coffee was because i didnt know how to use new coffee pot.

Her answer - "You could always just call my friends and ask them!"

I just stood there tall. I didnt apologize and she didnt ask.

This is the first week ive ever felt like a REAL man.

She is literally stomping around the house in front of me trying to get me to respond.

Funny thing though. She is still going to Charlotte. Travel and getting out of the house is SUCH a big EN that even though she is livid with me she is still going.

Its gonna be a rough ride but im going to weather it like the man I am.


If she asks WHY I exposed her what do I tell her?
Posted By: Gerkaguards Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 01:18 PM
To save your marriage.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Its gonna be a rough ride but im going to weather it like the man I am.
If she asks WHY I exposed her what do I tell her?

Waaa-HOO, YEG! Ride tall in that saddle! The day will come when she'll look at you as her hero! hurray

Well, it's pretty simple, isn't it? You tell her the truth. You exposed this terrible thing because you love her and your M and will do anything you must in order to save it.

When she whines "But you didn't have to tell everyone! You could have just talked to me" blah blah blah, let her know that the secrecy method didn't seem to do much for killing her A.

Then repeat again "I love you and our marriage and will do whatever it takes to save it."

And then immediately go to:

"Hey, there's a neat little restaurant at the next exit. Wanta stop and get a bite to eat?"
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 02:35 PM
YEG, you are doing great! It may not feel like it at times, but you are. She is going to resent you being nice to her. It will make her mad. Ignore it.

Stick to your guns here. You did do the right thing and you did it for the right reasons- to try and save your marriage. She is angry because you are shining the light of truth into her dark, secret fantasy.

When she does ask about why you exposed, just stick to the mantra, "I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage" and then try to deflect or change the subject. Try to avoid relationship talk if you can.

Remain calm, cool and consistent and strong in your beliefs. She won't show it, but she will respect that over time.

You feel like a real man because you are behaving like one. This is what I was trying to get at earlier. Taking positive ACTIONS is empowering for YOU. You will start to feel better and sort of 'rise above' the emotional calamity. The trick here is to stay consistent and to avoid LBs.

Also remember to have NO EXPECTATIONS! It is going to take some time for the fog to lift. Do what you can to destroy the affair and at the same time, meet your WW's needs as much as she will allow you to.

You really are doing great. Keep up the good work.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:38 PM
Never forewarn about exposing. Never use it as a bargining tool. Just expose. Expose now.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/08/10 04:51 PM
Worried about the baby. What baby?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/09/10 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Worried about the baby. What baby?
baby = 4 YO girl
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/09/10 01:11 AM
Anything else? Or was this a drive by?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/09/10 03:45 AM
Latest.

HDe got exposed be time.
After she finished stomping aroun the house trying to pick a fight and telling me that my plan had failed and she was going the other way. Which makes no sence since she was alredy his, Hense why I fight.

She kept on the chrade for about 15 minutes Finally she sat down to watch a moving. I asked to sit next to her. "Its your couch" at this point im almost laughing its so funny. We sit through 5 minutes of 300 and she starts getting up and standing in the kitchen.

ME-"ready to head up to charlottE?"

WW- "not sure i even wanna be in there.

So i ge her into the car. Dammit she tried not too but she had tons of fun around ikea, and all over charlotte. I even got her to commit to let me help her with baking cakes next week for girls party.

Way back she was very quiet. didnt wanna respond. Deep in thougt jsut kept the convo lite. Only thing she said stupid to me was "Just remember your just fighting over me"

My responce" Im fighting for the women I love and our child together. Im a man that is handling his buisness. Hes the one scared now hes outted. If he feels guilty good for him. He desearves it."

Good night. Im going to meet the WW tomorow to go to church. Got her another hand made card a open hart necklace and earring set.
Posted By: nesre Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/09/10 07:05 AM
Yeg

You did great with exposing. Good for you. I waited too long in my case and trickeled out some along the way. Until I went all the way there were no good results.

I know from your posts you said you were doing a lot of reading on the site. Please make sure you understand this and if you have any questions post them

Way too many people go to PLAN A and it ends up being Plan Doormat. It goes way too long and that is not what the Plans are about. Read Carefully.

Vets correct me if I am wrong but I believe for men Dr.Harley recommends approximately 6 months max for Plan A.

What are Plan A and Plan B

This is out of the NOTABLE POST THREAD and was put together by Pepperband. Thank You Pep.

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#1836781 - 03/05/07 08:35 PM Misapplication of plan A [Re: Pepperband]
Pepperband
Member

Registered: 10/20/00
Posts: 26843
Loc: Shrek's Swamp Misapplication of Plan A ... by Distressed

I may be opening up a can of worms, but I read so many posts from people struggling with the implementation of Plan A that I thought I'd open up a philosophical discussion. Before expressing my opinions, I need to be clear that I myself did do Plan A for about 18 months in total. So when I'm critical, accept that I'm criticizing my own behavior in the hopes that others can learn. Here goes.
I am a great believer in the Harley methodology and it helped me work through a horrible situation. However, I am convinced that there is no greater misunderstanding and misapplication of techniques than in the betrayed's use of Plan A. FAR, FAR too many betrayed's seem to believe that if they stop love busting, go to great efforts to meet the wayward's needs (while the affair continues), and don't bring up OR talks or any issues, their spouses will eventually come back. While the spouses sometimes do come back during Plan A, it is my strong belief that their coming back is much more related to the natural death of their affairs than any action the betrayed is taking.

Plan A serves one narrowly defined purpose only. Its purpose is for the betrayed spouse to demonstrate for the wayward spouse the behavior he/she is capable of should the wayward ever decide to return to the marriage. That's it. It does not and cannot be used to: 1) win the spouse back from the OP, 2) recreate love from the wayward while the affair continues by meeting emotional needs, 3) unconditionally demonstrate love and self-sacrifice from the betrayed, or 4) create guilt within the wayward.

While the positive aspects of Plan A are useful, they come with a very high negative cost if it goes on too long. The backlash to the betrayed's self-esteem grows over time as disrespectful behavior from the wayward is not only tolerated, but often rewarded. The betrayed forgets what it's like to respect him/herself, and just accepts whatever crumbs the wayward offers. Worse still, the betrayed remains so engrossed in the effort to meet the emotional needs of the wayward, that they're not focusing on developing a separate life. This doesn't always happen, but it happens far more often than it should.

I believe the Harley's are frequently misunderstood about Plan A. Their intent is for a SHORT Plan A, just to demonstrate the changes. Normally, they recommend going to Plan B at separation or after just a few months of Plan A. Plan B is almost always necessary according to the Harley's. Their advice is clear, but many people do not apply it as advised. Plan A goes way too far.
Unfortunately, it's best to accept that once someone decides to leave, whether they choose to come back is completely out of the control of the betrayed. The primary influences on the wayward's behavior are some combination of the state of the affair and the character of the wayward, not the actions of the betrayed. That's why Harley says go to Plan B and stay there. It's basically designed to allow a maximum waiting period for the affair to end. _________________________
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~


Also, very soon a No Contact letter that you approve of will need to be written and mailefd by you to the OM. There are a lot of good examples here when that time comes. Just post asking for one and we will find some that should work.

I don't mean to bog you down with info but from what I am told Recovery is extremly hard. Taking these steps will help the two of you along the way should she decide to really commit to the M again.

Another good post for For referance. This is by Mark 1052. Thank you Mark.
Post about Newbies By Mark 1952

Hope this helps

Nesre
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/09/10 12:03 PM
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Also, very soon a No Contact letter that you approve of will need to be written and mailefd by you to the OM. There are a lot of good examples here when that time comes. Just post asking for one and we will find some that should work.


WW brought up the NC. Said she would HAVE to talk to him at least 1 more time. I told her there were better ways than doing it over the phone or in person. I mentioned a letter. Of course she was very hurt by this. I think it was the thought of not being able to give a formal goodbye. At that point I just backed off and changed the subject of conversation to something lively.

Thanks for linking that clarification. I have probably been implementing it wrong. I will town down the deep conversations even more and just focus on meeting needs.

Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/09/10 12:42 PM
No changing the subject on NC. You see ALL WS try the, "I just need one more time." It leads to, "Just one last time." If it is done face to face, it is so they can get one more time to "knock boots." If they do it over the phone, they can make it sound like it isn't their idea. If you aren't in on the convo, they will make plans on NEW ways to stay in contact. NO NEGOTIATIONS ON THIS. DrH recommends a NC LETTER. That is written by HER and okay'd by YOU and SENT by YOU. There are some examples on here that you can get her to copy. When she does write that letter, put the rough draft up here for others to comment on it. You can do this.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/09/10 12:49 PM
hi there, yeg
I just wanted to add my support for you and your fight to save your marriage.
You are a good man and if you follow the plan that the good people on this site give you about exposure and meeting her needs you will come out of this in a good place.
Even though she will be mad, she will also notice you are fighting for her and your family, she is going to feel important to you and that's probably what she has been missing.....
Be strong even when it feels like you are going backwards, it feels like that for a while at first. She will be mad, but grateful later in the process...
It doesn't happen quickly, they say about 6 months to get her fog of the affair to lift and think like a normal person again. I found it wasn't my husband during that time it was like he was possessed by some selfish person I didn't know....
He found his way back and she will too.......
Hang in there, support is here and it will give you the strength to go through this process.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 01:46 AM
Mothers day report

Spent the day with the wife and her parets. Went to church and afterwards cooked dinner for her with her father. WW was in a mopey mood all day. Just kinda drug around and staring at walls and stuff. I would ask her questions and try to spark conversation. She just gave me one word answers to everything

Overall a very draining day. Im still staying at night with my parents and she basically said it was time to go home at 9 pm. Told me I needed to get some sleep before work tommorow.

I made her a handmade card with caligraphy I picked up off the internet and gave her a open heart necklace and earrings shes wanted for a while. She just hugged on the baby and loved on her. Barelly said anything to me. Im jelious of my own daughter when i see WW smile at her and hug her and hold her.

Im plan A and i know im just there to meet her needs. What do I do when she pushes me away because im being too smothering? I know I cant believe her. Still giving me the "I need time to think" garbage.

She did watch a little of a movie with me before she asked me to leave for the night. I think that was herway of tossing me a crumb.

Should i be asking her everyday if she has talked to the OM? That seems like a LB. I want to keep them backpedaling but i dont wanna push too hard.

Is there any advice yall can give me to keeping my energy level up? Bad fog days like today are hard to get through. Its just really hard to just smaile and take her standoffish nature.

I think I may have to go to letter format. That may get me an easier way to tell her how I feel about her without being overbearing.

I just pray to God every night for strength. I feel like im running on fumes and im so desperate for a kind word from her.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 01:53 AM
I would back off a little bit on telling her how YOU feel. Quite frankly, she doesn't care at the moment. It is all about HER and her needs. Use that to play into it.

Stay away from relationship talk and remember, NO EXPECTATIONS. This is going to take a lot of time. It is hard and draining. Re-read the Plan A carrot and stick again. Meet her needs that she will allow you to, and don't push too much. It may appear overbearing and 'smothering'. Stay cool and take care of yourself too.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 01:55 AM
Good news though is the OM should be gettting Exposure ambush by his supervisor early tommorow. I pray that will end the affiar. She has been feeling heat pretty hard. Time for the OM to get a taste.

Even if this does cut the head off she will probably be moping pretty much for another week before she agrees to NC.

All i am doing is telling her I love her and that she is special to me. Im just trying to spend the time with her I should have been for years. all WW says is you cant make it up in 1 night. Meanwhile im pulling my hair out thinking "YOU WOULDNT YET ME!! YOU WERE TOO BUSY GETTING IT FROM OM!!!!"

Its very frustrating.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 01:58 AM
Quote
I would back off a little bit on telling her how YOU feel. Quite frankly, she doesn't care at the moment. It is all about HER and her needs. Use that to play into it.


Very true. Barelly looked at me when I talked. I know this last a longtime. Its just hard to keep up the energy for it.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 02:02 AM
Okay, for now, STOP TELLING HER YOU LOVE HER AND HOW SPECIAL SHE IS.

Ummmmmm, one thing though, I forget, why aren't you living in YOUR home? That needs to be corrected.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 02:37 AM
She will probably be 'mopey' for much longer than a week. I think it usually lasts around 3 weeks AFTER no contact is established. Be patient, and remain consistent. She needs to see you consistently meeting her needs, or at least showing the ability to meet her needs without smothering her. It is a very fine line, but as time goes by you will get the hang of it. I've been doing it a while myself and getting better day by day.

Scotty is right. You need to move back home. Don't make a big deal about it, just grab your stuff and go back home.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 02:57 AM
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Im plan A and i know im just there to meet her needs. What do I do when she pushes me away because im being too smothering? I know I cant believe her. Still giving me the "I need time to think" garbage.

Don't be too clingy. Don't try to snuggle up. Just meet the needs she'll allow you to meet and back off the ones she doesn't want you to. At the first sign of resistance back off, and just meet the needs she'll allow you to meet. Try again later. Rinse, lather, repeat. It's a complicated dance, but with practice you can learn to master it. Make yourself available, but not too available. Makes plans and hang out with your friends to let her know you are still living your life and not just hovering over her all the time.

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Should i be asking her everyday if she has talked to the OM? That seems like a LB. I want to keep them backpedaling but i dont wanna push too hard.

No, you snoop and verify yourself. OM will soon be given a NC order, so if your snooping uncovers a breach of NC, you report OM to his CoC. Problem solved. Whenever there is contact, you need to respond with consequences. Since the consequences will be greater on OM's side, you deal with it from that angle.

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Is there any advice yall can give me to keeping my energy level up? Bad fog days like today are hard to get through. Its just really hard to just smaile and take her standoffish nature.

Suck it up. You know your goal, and hopefully with our feedback you understand that things aren't going to be very good for the next six months, so you expect that and chalk it up to the pain that's necessary for the gain.

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I think I may have to go to letter format. That may get me an easier way to tell her how I feel about her without being overbearing.

She knows how you feel. There is no need for love letters right now. If anything, I would send positive notes and emails thanking her for a wonderful dinner and the like.

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I just pray to God every night for strength. I feel like im running on fumes and im so desperate for a kind word from her.

You better fuel up because you have a LONG way to go. Getting NC w/ OM is the first step.

The next step is getting with your lawyer and devising a way to get you back in the house. To this point, it seems to me that your lawyer has been awful thus far. She should have realize that maybe you weren't in the best frame of mind after just finding out, and that maybe you didn't know what you wanted. Sure, moving out will ensure your WW won't get alimony. That's a good plan if that's what is most important to you. However, she just handed over a slam dunk custody case to your WW that would relegate you to a one day a week and every other weekend dad. You march into your lawyer's office tomorrow and tell her that you want to move back into your house because that is where you need to be to plan A your WS and your daughter means more to you that any potential alimony. If you don't want to lose that, just don't sleep with her until she is committed to the relationship again (and I'm betting that you wouldn't get offered right now anyway). Ask your lawyer for the best way to accomplish your goal.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 04:13 PM
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Okay, for now, STOP TELLING HER YOU LOVE HER AND HOW SPECIAL SHE IS.


I'll do that. Definatly doesnt seem to be helping any anyway.

Quote
Ummmmmm, one thing though, I forget, why aren't you living in YOUR home? That needs to be corrected.


Im trying to develop a re-entry strategy. Problem was we have been sleeping in seperate beds for months. When I go back I dont wanna do that again. She also is telling me she needs space to make her decision.

In the end her decision of NC is HER decision. I can't force her to do it. If she isnt committed to NC, radical honesty, joint agreement and transparancy in the relationship it wont work.

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No, you snoop and verify yourself. OM will soon be given a NC order, so if your snooping uncovers a breach of NC, you report OM to his CoC.


Got webwatcher on order. She thinks her computer is safe so I can at least filter it that way. I think attacking the affair from the OM angle will minimize negative feelings with my WW.

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You better fuel up because you have a LONG way to go. Getting NC w/ OM is the first step.


I know. Its one reason I post here is so I can vent and get support. I couldnt manage doing this alone.

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You better fuel up because you have a LONG way to go. Getting NC w/ OM is the first step.


I wasn't the best client either. I was a basket case.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 05:25 PM
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She also is telling me she needs space to make her decision.

The only reason she needs space it to continue her affair. Don't smother her, but don't feel the need to give her space to help make her decision. She's just trying to buy herself more time.

Quote
In the end her decision of NC is HER decision. I can't force her to do it. If she isnt committed to NC, radical honesty, joint agreement and transparancy in the relationship it wont work.

Again, you are not understanding things properly. Yes, NC is her decision, but you need to attach negative consequences for her making contact so that in the end, choosing NC is the easier path. Waywards ALWAYS take the easy way out, so make it hard to continue contact. Every bit of contact should be re-exposed to her family and OM's CoC. I would first sit down with her family and tell them your definite intentions of saving the marriage. Also, when you are back in your house, ENFORCE MARITAL BOUNDARIES. She is an addict who can't control herself. Don't let her contact OM in YOUR HOUSE. Block his email and phone number. I put a strict lockdown on contact w/ OM. She knew I wasn't going to allow it anymore. I deleted all OM's contact info from her phone and email and got rid of old cell phone bills with his number on it (She pretty much only called him and she didn't have his number memorized, so it took her probably a week to find his number again). Don't allow contact in your house. If she wants to contact OM, she can go stay with HER parents. You aren't leaving.

She isn't going to commit to NC and radical honesty, transparency, and POJA UNTIL she's already gotten through withdrawal. You are putting the cart before the horse. Get NC established, get her through withdrawal, keep meeting the needs she allows you to meet while avoiding LBs, and THEN get her on board with the MB stuff. You are at the very minimum 2-3 months away from that. Focus on today.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 07:21 PM
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She isn't going to commit to NC and radical honesty, transparency, and POJA UNTIL she's already gotten through withdrawal. You are putting the cart before the horse. Get NC established, get her through withdrawal, keep meeting the needs she allows you to meet while avoiding LBs, and THEN get her on board with the MB stuff. You are at the very minimum 2-3 months away from that. Focus on today.


See thats one thing I didnt know. I thought that the purpose of Plan A was to solely show my WW that I'm willing to meet needs.

Im monitoring all the phone access that I can. Ive got a Webwatcher OTW. Right now she is recieving alot of pressure from friends, family and myself to cut off the A. last time I can tell she contacted him was on 5/4/10.

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Every bit of contact should be re-exposed to her family and OM's CoC


i will do that. So far I havent CAUGHT any. Of course Im limited to what I can do. If I catch her I will re expose to family and OM COC.


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She isn't going to commit to NC and radical honesty, transparency, and POJA UNTIL she's already gotten through withdrawal.


I guess I got the order messed up there. I KNOW recovery cant begin until the A ends. For that NC has to be established. I thought that when she agreed to NC that she had to agree for POJA, transparancy and honesty at the same time. I understand it may be hollow.

I think I may be just getting conflicting advice from my therapist. He insisted that when she went NC that I needed to insist on POJA etc at the same time.

So do I wait for POJA and stuff till withdrawals end? What do I do when she goes NC? I guess im just kinda lost.

Ill post my Current plan atm and yall can comment on it.

Exposure - achieved
Keep pressure on her and get to agree to NC - In progress.
Help through withdrawal. (not sure how to identify when this is over)
Get her to agree to POJA, Rad Honesty and transparancy

Im not trying to deviate from the MB system. Its the closest thing I have to a handbook. I just put myself at a disadvantage from the start by moving out and Im trying to recover.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 07:42 PM
BTW Jim I started reading your story as well.

The advice from Foreverhers (the poker analogy) and the dos and dont that Marshmallow provided helped alot.

I try to save stuff like that I see so I can refer to it often. It provides me with inspiration and helps me keep on track.

I KNOW ive been guilty of saying "I love you" too much since Dday. Ive also been too preachy saying "look at how ive changed".

Im toning it down and getting back into the house ASAP. It may be just back into the spare Bedroom but thats at least back in the house.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/10/10 08:45 PM
The purpose of plan A is to put yourself in the best possible light to show your WW what you will be like in the future when/if she recommits to the marriage. Your goal is to use the carrot and the stick. The carrot is to try and meet her ENs that she will allow you to meet with no expectations that she will meet yours and to avoid all lovebusting behavior other than exposure. The stick is to expose your WW to all the consequences of her actions. This includes mostly exposure but also things like boundary enforcement (i.e. you aren't allowed to contact OM in our home, I'm not footing the bill for you to run around on me, etc.).

She's not going to commit to anything until NC and she gets through withdrawal and you have made enough love bank deposits to interest her in the relationship again (you can't make many love bank deposits when the affair is ongoing). Withdrawal happens in about 3 phases. The first phase is the first 2-3 weeks, and the WS acts like their life is going to end, they hate you for ruining the relationship with their soulmate, they tell you this doesn't mean we're getting back together, and they pine for their affair partner constantly. The second phase goes until about the 2-2.5 month phase. They are functional again, but they think about the OM from time to time, if the OM calls they will jump right back into the A, they are questioning whether or not they should get back with you if the OP is out of the picture, they don't work on the relationship, but they stop saying they hate you or want a D all the time. Then the 3rd phase last until about the six month phase. They'll do some work on the relationship, they start questioning their relationship with their affair partner and start to see the other person for what they truly are, but if the other person makes contact, there is a decent chance they will jump ship again, but there isn't much of a desire to contact the other person anymore, etc. After six months, the fog should be over, unless the affair was going on extremely hot and heavy for more than several years. Your situation might take longer than 6 months, but since there was distance involved, it might not be as bad as if they saw each other on a weekly basis.

Once you are at about the 3 month stage of NC and your WW is showing signs of working on the relationship again, that is when I would start introducing the MB concepts.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:07 AM
UPDATE

First and foremost

IM BACK IN THE HOUSE

I told her I was OMW home and id bring home the milk she wanted. When I got home she was finishing up dinner. I asked her what was for dinner and complimented her.

Then I told her I was moving back in the house. She freaked out and said no your not. I told her I thought it was best for my marriage... then I asked her what kind of chicken it was.

She calmed down for a bit and jumped on the computer while I was getting the 4YO ready for bed.

Afterwards I asked her if she wanted to watch ou shows together. SHe asked me when I was going home to my moms and I told her I wasnt.

At that point she said again she wasnt ready and I told her I was there to stay.

Then she tried to grab the 4yo and leave but after i called her bluff she let the 4YO stay in bed and left herself. Said she was going to her parents to stay. At that point I said have a good night and she left.

I warned her dad the hornet's nest was on its way over and he said he would do what he could to fix it. Im sure she will slip in about 11ish after Im in bed for the night. She already said she was spending the night there with the 4YO tommorow so its not really an issue.

Honestly Im sad I caused a LB in not respecting her feelings but it was neccessary. you cant watch your flock for wolves when your not in the field.

I also took the night away to install webwatcher. So now i can cut off that avenue of contact. It definatly is a PITA to set up but looks like its rolling now.

She definatly pissed as crap at me but its not like she has many options at this point. the OM is effectively out of the picture with the COC on his butt.

Im hopeing she will reluctantly "give me another chance" soon. I'll have my head held high when she chooses too.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:09 AM
It was not a LB to move back in if that's what you were talking about.

You are taking charge and when she is defogged she will thank you.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:09 AM
You also did very well not to let her take the 4 YO. Never let her leave with the kid, that is a mistake many men make and live to regret.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:20 AM
YEG- You did awesome. I am proud of you my friend. Now, it is not a LB to stand up for yourself. Plan A isn't kiss WW's butt at all costs.

Now after moving back home and standing up about the kid not leaving, how do YOU feel right now?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:34 AM
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Now after moving back home and standing up about the kid not leaving, how do YOU feel right now?

pretty good. She is at her parents house so she would be safe but it was a matter of principle.

Kinda if you are gonna carry on like a kid you can do it by yourself.

One thing that REALLY pissed me of was during the A she met him TWICE with the kid. Just for lunch but it REALLY pissed me off. Even at the time when I didnt know (or wouldn't see) the A.

He even sent her a birthday card last year from UNCLE OM.
i confronted her about it then but she claimed it was a figure of speech. Man I was stupid.

its nice standing up like a man though.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:44 AM
Ughh checked the messages today. OM texted Her. GRRRRRRR

QUESTION

i asked her what he had to say in the text. She refused to tell me. She is already seething at me. I definatly didnt help any by asking her.

Did I screw up? If I see a text or call from him should I ask her about it?

I immediately exposed her to her dad. Now she is saying she is staying at her dads again tommorow.

Im sure I did the right thing but I need reassurance. WW is just SO upset.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:45 AM
I NEVER understand the "Uncle" term being used for OM or BF's of Moms. I mean, how confusing for kids. My Mommy is having sex with my uncle. puke

YEG, you did very well. I am sure you feel GOOD because you know you are headed in the right direction. Keep it up. What are you planning next? Ramping up Plan A?
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:46 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Ughh checked the messages today. OM texted Her. GRRRRRRR

QUESTION

i asked her what he had to say in the text. She refused to tell me. She is already seething at me. I definatly didnt help any by asking her.

Did I screw up? If I see a text or call from him should I ask her about it?

I immediately exposed her to her dad. Now she is saying she is staying at her dads again tommorow.

Im sure I did the right thing but I need reassurance. WW is just SO upset.

Do you pay for the cell phone? If so, cancel it.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:04 AM
YEG,

You are doing good but you need to realize that your wife is going to be furious after exposure. That's OK, it's all part of it. She will say some horrible things to you. Ignore it. THrough all this you need to remain "James Bond". Think calm, cool, collected, and confident. Don't be frazzled by her outbursts or mean things that she will say.

Let her stay at her dad's. He is much better than the OM and will probably have some positiv influence over her as well.

Hang in there, and use this time to start planning out your Plan A, and reading on here. What are your plans to meet her top ENs? How are you going to prevent yourself from committing LBs? How are YOU going to change your behavior to be a better man?

Work on you. Her anger will take care of itself.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:20 AM
Quote
Hang in there, and use this time to start planning out your Plan A, and reading on here. What are your plans to meet her top ENs? How are you going to prevent yourself from committing LBs? How are YOU going to change your behavior to be a better man?

Im currently in plan A.

I am currently running again. She really got into running about 6 months ago. So ive asked her several times to go running with her

She loves to get out of town for the weekend so im doing that as well. Took her off this weekend and we had alot of fun.

I never supported her ideas for the marriage. I need to do this better.

I always supported her very well finacially but not her financial ideas. When she lost her job I didnt support her. i just worried how I was gonna fix it. I screwed up that chance.

Currently when she tries to pick a fight with me I just change the subject. Like when she was mad at the moving back in plan.

She is getting very tired of the "im just a man trying to save his marriage" answer. i need a better babble counter phrase there.


Thanks for answering. This was literally keeping me awake so hopefully i can get some rest before work tommorow. Probably gonna have to follow up with the OM COC since he texted her again. If they haven't questioned him yet I might ramp it up a notch and go to the IG's office. She is already as pissed as Ive ever seen her so one more thing isnt gonna matter.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:23 AM
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Do you pay for the cell phone? If so, cancel it.

I do pay for it. I would rather be able to monitor it though. That way I can document it to the OM COC for his investigation if needed. I dont care if he gets in serious trouble I just want the contact to STOP NOW.

If the first sargeant we talked to wont take action i can find someone who will.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:25 AM
Keep saying that you are a man trying to save his marriage. It WILL get through to her. It will just take a while.

Keep saying it!
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Probably gonna have to follow up with the OM COC since he texted her again. If they haven't questioned him yet I might ramp it up a notch and go to the IG's office. She is already as pissed as Ive ever seen her so one more thing isnt gonna matter.

Good attitude. You are already 'dirty' so you might as well jump in the mud! Seriously though, the IG may be the way to go and I suggest you do it soon. They HAVE to investigate all allegations where the 1SG may choose to try to sweep it under the rug.

As far as her picking fights with you, try to be a good active listener. Try not to argue too much, but say things like, "you have given me a lot to think about here. Let me get back to you on this if I can." You should also repeat her complaints back to her to show that you are listening and understand her (even if it is ridiculous). Say something like, "so what I hear you saying is that you feel I was never doing xxxxxx enough and that made you feel angry". Try not to argue or sell your point. She isn't interested yet as it is still all about her.
Posted By: Mr_Recon6mo Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Ughh checked the messages today. OM texted Her. GRRRRRRR

QUESTION

i asked her what he had to say in the text. She refused to tell me. She is already seething at me. I definatly didnt help any by asking her.

Did I screw up? If I see a text or call from him should I ask her about it?

I immediately exposed her to her dad. Now she is saying she is staying at her dads again tommorow.

Im sure I did the right thing but I need reassurance. WW is just SO upset.


You did the right thing. You are not the one who is cheating.

But you need to do more serious snooping if you want to know the truth. You are not gonna get it from active wayward!

If your WW gets busted for contacting OM or vice versa, DO NOT reveal your source!

Just use every tool available to snoop, collect (and store!) the information and expose. If you hesitate, come here and we will help you to pick the best course of action.

You are doing great. Much better than most BS-s in your situation.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:55 AM
For the cell phone, go to the Spying 102 thread and read about flexispy. Put it on her cell phone when she is asleep. Also, who is your cell phone provider? If it is Verizon, I believe they allow you to block numbers. Block his phone number on your home line and her cell phone. Block his email address on her email. Watch for prepaid calling cards. I would check my WW's purse every morning. Forward any contact on to OM's CoC.

GREAT JOB GETTING BACK IN THE HOUSE!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 07:52 AM
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If your WW gets busted for contacting OM or vice versa, DO NOT reveal your source!

Im going to mainly go at the A from the OM angle since he is much more vulnerable. I will continue to ask her about contact but if she says "F off" I'll back off. The point taht im not going to tolerate it is made

Not planning to reveal I called them much less my source. They sure dont tell me when they call.

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Block his phone number on your home line and her cell phone.

only have the cell phone. She owns the vonage line.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:28 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
UPDATE

First and foremost

IM BACK IN THE HOUSE

hurray That's how you do it. Nice, YEG!

I told her I was OMW Okay, we know you're not the Other Man's Wife, so we'll let that slide since we're so giddy that you've re-taken your marital reins dance2 home and id bring home the milk she wanted. When I got home she was finishing up dinner. I asked her what was for dinner and complimented her.

Then I told her I was moving back in the house. She freaked out and said no your not. The fizzling noise you heard was her little "I'm single" fantasy life screeching to a halt I told her I thought it was best for my marriage... then I asked her what kind of chicken it was. What kind was it? JK! laugh

She calmed down for a bit and jumped on the computer while I was getting the 4YO ready for bed. "Dear POSOM: Can you believe my HUSBAND just moved back in to his house! I guess this isn't going to be that smooth after all! Dang! I might start de-fogging...better jump into the Infidelity Mobile and scoot out of here before the sense he's talking starts to kick in!"

Honestly Im sad I caused a LB in not respecting her feelings but it was neccessary. you cant watch your flock for wolves when your not in the field. Living in your OWN house, eating your OWN food and watching your OWN TV with your OWN wife is NOT a LB!

Im hopeing she will reluctantly "give me another chance" soon. I'll have my head held high when she chooses too.

Well done, YEG.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
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Block his phone number on your home line and her cell phone.

only have the cell phone. She owns the vonage line.

If you call Vonage from the Vonage line, you have the same last name as your WW, and you know the last 4 digits of her social security number, I bet they'd block the number.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 02:51 PM
DID I OVERPLAY MY HAND?

Affair phone.

After I confronted the WW last night about her calling him on the cell phone she is shopping today for a boost mobile phone. Shes getting an affair phone.

Should I back off on confronting her about contact or keep it up. Im making it more difficult but not preventing it.

Im gonna have to follow up with the 1st sargeant. Its not working with what I got now.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
DID I OVERPLAY MY HAND?

Affair phone.

After I confronted the WW last night about her calling him on the cell phone she is shopping today for a boost mobile phone. Shes getting an affair phone.

Should I back off on confronting her about contact or keep it up. Im making it more difficult but not preventing it.

Im gonna have to follow up with the 1st sargeant. Its not working with what I got now.

Oh, she's shopping for a new phone, is she? And how is she supposed to pay for this phone? She's unemployed, yes? You certainly should not be footing the bill for this, YEG. Have you closed joint accounts to cut off her ability to finance her A? If you're both on the accounts you won't be able to completely close them, but you CAN take the bulk of the money out. Leave her $10 for pocket money. Put the rest of the money where she can't get to it. Tell her when she comes home you'll discuss finances. Until then you're not going to fund her affair, for the phone or otherwise.

One thing that concerns me: OM's CoC was given this info second-hand by your friend. I think you should call this guy and make an appointment to see him in person. I'm afraid he's putting this on the back burner. After all, if YOU'RE not being aggressive about it, why should he?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
DID I OVERPLAY MY HAND?

Affair phone.

After I confronted the WW last night about her calling him on the cell phone she is shopping today for a boost mobile phone. Shes getting an affair phone.

Should I back off on confronting her about contact or keep it up. Im making it more difficult but not preventing it.

Im gonna have to follow up with the 1st sargeant. Its not working with what I got now.

Remove the SIM card from the affair phone and hide it. Let her know there will be no "affair phone" allowed while she is in the marital home. If she wants an affair phone she get go through the process of getting a divorce (over 1 year in the state of SC), and THEN AND ONLY THEN she is free to talk to whoever she wants, but not in the meantime. Don't get angry, just be calm but firm. You aren't going to tolerate it. Eventually, she'll realize that you mean business, and she'll give up trying to contact OM. You can separate accounts, but leave just enough available in her account for emergencies for your girl.

Get YOUR CoC involved as well as OM's CoC to get a NC ORDER ENFORCED! mad Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Make all sorts of noise until you get some action.

Remember, it is the AFFAIR that will doom your marriage. If you are successful in killing the affair, your marriage will most likely be saved.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 04:23 PM
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And how is she supposed to pay for this phone?


She has savings. She just got fired. we always had seperate accounts so I cant really do anything. The KL picked her surfing for boost mobile and locations she can buy it.

She hasnt got it yet.

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Get YOUR CoC involved as well as OM's CoC to get a NC ORDER ENFORCED! Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Make all sorts of noise until you get some action.


Im out the military so I have no COC. I just know how it works. We are contacting the 1st sargeant again and the IG office. Hopefully that will kill it.
Posted By: bitbucket Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
If she wants an affair phone she get go through the process of getting a divorce (over 1 year in the state of SC),

Actually that's the no-fault route; you have to live apart for a year. If he goes with adultery as the grounds it can go faster, and YEG has said he had a PI get the goods.
Posted By: suamico Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
She has savings. She just got fired. we always had seperate accounts so I cant really do anything. The KL picked her surfing for boost mobile and locations she can buy it.

She hasnt got it yet.
Hey YEG, I just read through all your posts. I couldn't stop reading until I got to the end. It was like watching a wilted flower come to life in full bloom. I am impressed. Not only did you grow a set of b@lls you really listened to the great advice you were given. So many BS think their situation is different and don't follow the advice they are given. That just prolongs the process.

As for the phone, do you think it is possible it is just a threat? Is she good with money? Maybe she did the math and realized she can't afford it. Exactly how much savings does she have? Who pays the household bills? Does she have access to any of your accounts?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 05:15 PM
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As for the phone, do you think it is possible it is just a threat?


It isnt just a threat because she didnt tell me. I snooped and found it out. I cant verify she got it though.

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Is she good with money? Maybe she did the math and realized she can't afford it.


She has ok savings. Not great. She will blow through it fairly quick though but still has it

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Exactly how much savings does she have? Who pays the household bills?


No idea on the amount.

I pay most bills she pays some too. I am plan a so I am fullfiling her FN

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Does she have access to any of your accounts?

I moved most money. I left some cash in the joint accounts so I would know if she was raiding them.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by bitbucket
Originally Posted by jmwc95
If she wants an affair phone she get go through the process of getting a divorce (over 1 year in the state of SC),

Actually that's the no-fault route; you have to live apart for a year. If he goes with adultery as the grounds it can go faster, and YEG has said he had a PI get the goods.

Right, but if SHE wanted a divorce, it would take her over a year to get it done.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 05:20 PM
YEG,

Just calm down and breathe. You, like many other BSs, just need to spy and monitor her to ensure NC. Keep an eye out for the affair phone or anything else. I'm sure you probably wake up earlier than she does, so you can do your snooping every morning. If she gets an affair phone, simply get the info from it, and disable it. She'll run out of money or willpower for affair phones eventually. You are in control. With any long distance relationship, you can eventually choke it to death, especially if OM is in the military AND your WW is unemployed.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 05:21 PM
While it is true that you are in Plan A and you should meet her needs, you should NOT finance the affair. You need to get creative about how you give her money.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
YEG,

Just calm down and breathe. You, like many other BSs, just need to spy and monitor her to ensure NC. Keep an eye out for the affair phone or anything else. I'm sure you probably wake up earlier than she does, so you can do your snooping every morning. If she gets an affair phone, simply get the info from it, and disable it. She'll run out of money or willpower for affair phones eventually. You are in control. With any long distance relationship, you can eventually choke it to death, especially if OM is in the military AND your WW is unemployed.

This OM is not married?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 06:16 PM
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This OM is not married?


Hes divorced. His ex wife was having an affair while in Iraq.

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You, like many other BSs, just need to spy and monitor her to ensure NC


I just want him to STOP CONTACTING her. I feel she will agree to NC but its much harder when he just doesnt care.

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With any long distance relationship, you can eventually choke it to death, especially if OM is in the military AND your WW is unemployed.


hes stationed in the same town for now. He has a transfer date but I dont know when.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
I just want him to STOP CONTACTING her. I feel she will agree to NC but its much harder when he just doesnt care.

Well, sure it would. Heck, we'd all be good to go if the OP would just go away! But look, YEG, it's not a matter of her agreeing to NC if he wouldn't care - she'd have no choice. It just isn't that easy. I think you're waiting for people to come to their senses, here. That's not going to happen. You've got to grab this bull and take it down.

On a previous post you said "We are contacting the 1st sargeant again and the IG office. Hopefully that will kill it." Who's the 'we' in this sentence?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 06:48 PM
Quote
Who's the 'we' in this sentence


My friend called since I didnt have the stones too.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 06:54 PM
If he is stationed locally, just go ahead and pay his CoC a visit in person. While you at it, you might want to tell him face to face (with your friend to keep anything from happening and do it in front of an audiend) to end his affair and cut off all contact w/ your WW. I would also make sure that the A is exposed to his family (you took your WW's word for it?) and his XW. Who knows if she was faithful to him. He might have been the one cheating on her and spun the story for sympathy.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
My friend called since I didnt have the stones too.

Okay, that's what I thought - I just wanted to make sure.

Well, the good news is you've got the stones now, right? So holster up, pick up the phone and tell this CoC (who puts his pants on one leg at a time, just like all us regular-type humans, don't forget) that you would like to schedule an appointment with him to discuss a serious personnel issue (or whatever you would call it in military-ese.) Give him your name. He will probably know why you're calling. He will also know that you are now cojone-laden and are ready to take the next step up the ladder, since he has so grievously neglected to take care of this.

This is a critical point of exposure that appears to currently be in the process of being swept under the rug. If he appears to be blowing you off, get his superior's name. You'll want to send a certified letter to both parties, just to make sure the cheese is binding.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 07:30 PM
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I would also make sure that the A is exposed to his family (you took your WW's word for it?) and his XW.


I have since verified his family knows. I dont even know the XW name much less where to contact her.

A complaint was filed with the IG office. Hopefully we will see how that goes.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
I have since verified his family knows. I dont even know the XW name much less where to contact her.

A complaint was filed with the IG office. Hopefully we will see how that goes.

Do you know anything about his background? Where he lived with XW? You can search county records online and sometimes find out that way. You can also google his name in intelius.com. It'll bring up his name and a list of names associated with his. Hers more than likely will be among those names if the D wasn't too long ago.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:40 PM
Need some inspiration

I KNOW im just starting the process but today was just a really hard day.

I let myself believe that my WW was about to go NC for me. I had no real evidence to back it up just the phone records I had available (with no calls since the 4th) and I thought my pressure on the OM was taking him out of the picture.

Now today I found she was browsing Boost mobile phones which serve only ONE purpose in a WW hands.

I KNOW I shouldnt be surprised. We just had a really good day on saturday. I was charming and we had alot of fun. It was like I saw a glimpse of my DW for a minute only to be lose in the fog.


Now the guilt and sadness of when I first found out is back. Its like I feel my guts wrenched out again.

If anyone has some coping techniques please lemme know.

Ive tried telling myself over and over "im doing the right thing" and "it is gonna get better". Ive tried exercise, watching TV and working. Nothing gets my mind off of this.

I know I shouldnt let it get to me like this but it is.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:44 PM
Wait 'til you have proof, and then if she gets the phone; see if you can get hold of it somehow.

She *needs* that next hit, and she's desperate to get it.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:45 PM
This is going to be of little consolation, YEG, but you'll hear this on here a lot: It's a marathon, not a sprint. It will be the hardest thing you will ever do. Bar none. I'm sorry. I wish I could take away what you're feeling, because it IS such an awful feeling. Internet hug coming your way, YEG.

Now. Having said all that stuff which is of no comfort, sorry frown you may want to consider seeing your doctor for anti-depressants. They have been a godsend for many on here.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:46 PM
Do you have a PS3? Or anything really. Get a violent videogame if you must; that helps me when I need to vent.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:53 PM
Here's some success story threads for you to read.

Mb Success's

success stories 2

There is much more out there. You just have to know where to look. Just off the top of my head, I know that Mr W, bigkahuna and a few others(DS7 interrupted my train of thought ARGH) are some successes too

You will see a lot of stories that are similar to yours and people who are just ahead of you in many ways. Have you read other's threads.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
If anyone has some coping techniques please lemme know.

Get a hobby. Just something to look forward to when you are having a bad day. I brew my own beer. It is sometimes very consuming to research some of the ingredients and techniques to make your favorite styles of beer.

I was also a drummer in a rock band, so sometimes I would like to rock out on the set.

Work out. Some more. Maybe start looking into some martial arts stuff (in case you ever run into OM wink ).

Talk to someone. It can be a friend (male) or a therapist, but find someone you get share things with.

Finally, vent here.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/11/10 11:59 PM
Oh Yea Jim too. He was the other person I was trying to tell you about as a FBH .
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/12/10 12:21 AM
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Now. Having said all that stuff which is of no comfort, sorry you may want to consider seeing your doctor for anti-depressants. They have been a godsend for many on here.

Already on 50 mg pristiq. My job is regulated by the federal government so im limited on what i can take. I would love to bump it up a bit to take the edge off but I cant afford to jeopardize my license.

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Talk to someone. It can be a friend (male) or a therapist, but find someone you get share things with.

I talk to my best work friend (hes a big fat italian guy so hes safe). He has been alot of help. I have a therapist ive been seeing. only can get in about every 2 weeks though. Problem with the therapist is he doesnt go strictly by the MB method so some of the stuff is counter what we say here. He does force me to deal with MY feelings though which i tend to shelve since im focusing so much on breaking up the A.

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This is going to be of little consolation, YEG, but you'll hear this on here a lot: It's a marathon, not a sprint. It will be the hardest thing you will ever do. Bar none. I'm sorry. I wish I could take away what you're feeling, because it IS such an awful feeling. Internet hug coming your way, YEG.

Its is some consolation. Just was a rough day. Gonna probally just take the ambien early and hope i sleep more than I did last night. Only got about 3 hrs sleep.


Quote
You will see a lot of stories that are similar to yours and people who are just ahead of you in many ways. Have you read other's threads.

i read some other threads. Seeing their wives slowly come around is comforting. So many people just say im wasting my time. Even her own friends. Her best friend basically told me she wasnt worth the pain I was putting myself through.

In the end this is something I MUST do i know however hard it is. I wanna have a clear conscience if DD4 asks my why mommy and daddy arent together anymore.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/12/10 12:48 AM
YEG, it sounds cliche`, but this will get better. You are really doing amazingly well, all things considered.

If you are like me, you want to see immediate results. Sometimes you feel that by just thinking about it you can WILL it to happen. I am logical, and I think "OK, I have listened to these people. I have done steps A-D like they said. Why is she still wayward? We should be recovering by now." Problem is I was listening to their advice, but not all their warning and cautions. Big among them is them telling me "this is going to take a lot of time". I get it now.

You are still getting some good advice. Do some stuff that YOU want to do. What made you happy before the marriage? Ride a bike. Exercise (great stress relief and method for positive change) regularly. See a movie. Read a book. Eventually, it will not be an all-consuming mental trap and you will begin to function a little better.

Maybe it would help you to write down all the reasons you want to recover your marriage, so when the going gets tough, you can look at it for motivation. I say this because you are going to have some bad days still. Sometimes it feels like you are making progress and then you will take a giant step backwards. It is a roller-coaster ride from he!!. Buckle up.

Just know that you are not alone here. Post here to vent or check out other threads. You will be surprised on how much good advice and tips you can pick up from others' threads too.

I know what you mean about other RLP (Real life people) suggesting to let it go. My family and WWs sister have told me the same. The thing is, you need to do what is right for YOU. Dr. Harley has a proven method after years of experience. I have faith in that.

Posted By: Noname2 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/12/10 03:49 AM
I have been following your thread here and I see a lot of the same crap I went through. Some of the best advice I received was to stand up for myself and be a man and that's where I'm starting to see you at now.

You know that she has not gone NC right? He is still contacting her and now she is shopping for a pre-paid cell phone. Plan A is about meeting her needs and eliminating LB's but at the same time you cannot be a doormat. She is still contacting OM so you are being a doormat. Stand up to her and let her know that you will not stand for this and be strong enough to not let her babble get to you.

It's simple if she continues to have contact with OM you have no chance and plan A means very little. Tell her to cut off OM period and don't let her say she needs time to decide this is your family you are talking about.

Your FIL seems like a great guy to have in your corner make sure you keep him informed of everything you see. My FWW parents were the greatest thing for me. They supported me and also put serious pressure on her to knock her crap off.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/12/10 12:23 PM
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You know that she has not gone NC right?


Yea im painfully aware of that.

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She is still contacting OM so you are being a doormat. Stand up to her and let her know that you will not stand for this and be strong enough to not let her babble get to you.


I have. So far every contact Ive re-exposed to her parents. If i see the phone I will make it unusuable but I dont think she has gotten it yet. From the tabs I kept on her she didnt have time to make it to the store.

Since the 4th I only have 1 VERIFIED contact attempt. That was a text that he sent her on the 10th. She did not respond back on either house phone or the computer.

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It's simple if she continues to have contact with OM you have no chance and plan A means very little. Tell her to cut off OM period and don't let her say she needs time to decide this is your family you are talking about.


Im working the OM pressure side of it. We are going to follow up today with his COC.

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Your FIL seems like a great guy to have in your corner make sure you keep him informed of everything you see.
he is providing alot of support. He helped his other daughter go thorugh the same thing. Both the FIL daughters have now had an A. Hes a good guy and he deserves better.

Update.
WW spent last night with her parents. SHe finnally is talking to me somewhat. Ill see what happens tommorow. Hopefully she can get past me moving back in.

I dont mind giving her time alone to think. I jsut wanna be in the house together to supervise it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/12/10 11:29 PM
Latest update

I got a text at work today. "We need to talk tonite"


Immediately my mind started racing. Is she going to agree to NC? Is she telling me its over?


Rest of work was terrible. Kept thinking about what it was about. Finally the time came.


She wanted me to move back out the house.

She is saying that its too soon and she needs space. She needs to decide if our marriage is worth saving.


I was devastated. I had let my hopes get up and once again dashed on the rocks of Plan A. I know its a marathon not a sprint but for a minute though I thought I might be the exception.


I asked her if she had talked to him lately she said one time for about 10 minutes. That hurt too.


I know not to believe the WW babble of "dont know if our marriage can be saved." Thats babble 101. They all say that.


I told her that I would allow her to have time without me but I would stay in the house. If she needs time to think she can do it at her parents or upstairs in another part of the house.


I asked her to respect me enough to not contact him. She agreed to that and I told her I would ask her about contact and would appreciate her being honest with me. She agreed to it but I know thats a lie too. I cant control what she does at another house.


I have the GPS ready for installation. Just need to get the time to put it on. Hopefully Ill get it tommorow.


As far as the current plan it remains pretty much the same.

Plan Aing WW. Im trying not to focus too much on the past. Just showing her how ive changed without being too preachy and pushy. its definatly Caught her off guard.


Still pursuing stopping the A at his end through COC.


Meeting EN
-She has agreed to a date night. That will give me a chance to sshow her im willing to get out of the house
-The out of town trips was a little much pressure I think to soon. Ill present the ideas to her and see what happens. it will show im willing to meet it.
-I think she likes the new stronger man. At least she says she does.
-WW is still spending alot of time with her parents. I can live with that especially if she is being monitored
-Im trying to avoid LBs. I agreed to her spending some time apart from me to think. Its minimal risk and shows her im willing to let her make up her own mind rather than bullying her.


Questions

The WW said basically told me that she has had to make the decision alot of times in the last few years to continue in the marriage or quit.
She says she needs time to make up her own mind because this one is for all of the marbles. She says she know at this point she cant continue her relationship with us both. its one of the other.

This sounds like typical WW babble. What should i take from it though?

I know I can't trust her that she will try to keep us both if possible. Just wonder if there was anything i coud derive from it though.

Is it usual for them to need time to make a decision? How long do they usually need?

Im pretty much in a holding pattern until she makes up her mind on NC right? Nothing I can really do but avoid LB and try to meet EN right?
Posted By: Mulan Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/12/10 11:46 PM
YEG - I've only got a sec right now, but DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOME!! That's the worst thing you could do right now. You will hear more on this later from many posters. DO NOT MOVE OUT NO MATTER WHAT WW SAYS OR DOES OR THREATENS!!!!
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/12/10 11:49 PM
NOPE. What you do is YOUR plan. THis is where you have become a little confused about Plan A and have slipped directly into Plan DOORMAT.

Now did you read about ENs? Did you fill out the EN questionnaire as if you were her? There have to be some complaints she had about your marriage BEFORE she started her A.

Re-read the ENs. You will need to re-read about Love busters too.

She doesn't need time to think. She needs you to back off so she can continue with her affair.

Your plan of attack is to do a superb Plan A. Have you seen carrot and stick of Plan A ? Do you understand it? Ask questions if needed.

You need to devise a superb Plan A. Also, STOP WITH THE RELATIONSHIP TALK. You KNOW she is contacting OM. She knows she is contacting OM. She is still in an ACTIVE affair. You need to treat her as such. YOU CAN NOT TRUST HER. SHE IS LYING.

Don't leave your house. You also shouldn't agree to let her have space. Tell her that you thought about it and you will not let her have any space. Don't tell her she can sleep somewhere else. She is your wife, she should be sleeping in your marital bed. If she doesn't want to, don't tell her you condone it. You may as well tell her you condone her affair.
Posted By: suamico Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
She is saying that its too soon and she needs space. She needs to decide if our marriage is worth saving.

If she needs space she can find in in your house or elsewhere. DO NOT move out. I know you love her but she is trying to make things easier on HER not you or the kids. "FOG"

Originally Posted by YEG
I was devastated. I had let my hopes get up and once again dashed on the rocks of Plan A. I know its a marathon not a sprint but for a minute though I thought I might be the exception.

I know you are hurt and hoping you were the exception you knew you could be the norm.

Originally Posted by YEG
I asked her if she had talked to him lately she said one time for about 10 minutes. That hurt too.

Sorry about that. She very well be lying about this too.



Originally Posted by YEG
I told her that I would allow her to have time without me but I would stay in the house. If she needs time to think she can do it at her parents or upstairs in another part of the house.

Good job

I asked her to respect me enough to not contact him. She agreed to that and I told her I would ask her about contact and would appreciate her being honest with me. She agreed to it but I know thats a lie too. I cant control what she does at another house.

[quote=YEG]YEG, you do know asking this will fall on FOG ears. So why ask now?
I have the GPS ready for installation. Just need to get the time to put it on. Hopefully Ill get it tommorow.

Keep working TEG. It must be tough but keep coming here for advice from people who know where you are and where you are going.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 01:15 AM
YEG,

Calm down, take a deep breath. Unfortunately these latest developments are just par for the course for a WW. Just know that your situation is no different, and many of us have recovered. Just another day on "As the Wayward World Turns." Remember, we told you that she is an addict who will refuse to give up her drug willingly. She'll try to negotiate just one more hit, and then she'll do it again. That is why you take the decision out of her hands by exposing to OM's CoC. Just keep following up on that. I would also give OM a call as well. You tell him to stay the hell away from your WW because every contact he makes will be forwarded on to his CoC, and that isn't a threat, it's a promise. If he values his government pension, he'll learn to drop it ASAP.

Again, calm down. You've got about 6 months of this, so try not to wear yourself out.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 01:57 AM
Quote
YEG - I've only got a sec right now, but DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOME!! That's the worst thing you could do right now. You will hear more on this later from many posters. DO NOT MOVE OUT NO MATTER WHAT WW SAYS OR DOES OR THREATENS!!!!

I did NOT move out.

I told her I would stay in the same room that ive stayed in for about 6 months.

If she needs to go elsewhere in the house she can. If she wants to go to her parents house i cant stop her though.

Quote
Now did you read about ENs? Did you fill out the EN questionnaire as if you were her? There have to be some complaints she had about your marriage BEFORE she started her A.

i have. I know where I goofed before. Some are easy fixes (travel and what not)

Others are much harder (supporting her in the way she wants to be supported)

Quote
She doesn't need time to think. She needs you to back off so she can continue with her affair.

i told her I would not tolerate her talking to him on the phones I control nor would I tolerate her slipping out to be with her. I told her I will fight for her every step of the way that im not going to allow him to take my wife and family.

Quote
Calm down, take a deep breath. Unfortunately these latest developments are just par for the course for a WW. Just know that your situation is no different, and many of us have recovered. Just another day on "As the Wayward World Turns."

To be honest im not near as upset as last night. last night I was like a baby. I prepared for the worst today so I wasnt exactly surprised when it happened. I WANTED it to come my way though.


Quote
every contact he makes will be forwarded on to his CoC, and that isn't a threat, it's a promise.

im keeping my hands clean with the reporting buisiness. I have friends working that angle for me.

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 02:13 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
[quote]
im keeping my hands clean with the reporting buisiness. I have friends working that angle for me.

Are you saying that you are letting your friends talk to his CoC? Have you not actually spoken to him yourself yet? Do you realize that this makes you look like a wuss who is too chicken to make a fuss for his wife??
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
every contact he makes will be forwarded on to his CoC, and that isn't a threat, it's a promise.

im keeping my hands clean with the reporting buisiness. I have friends working that angle for me.

I hope it is just because your friends are in the military and know the right people to get this moving. Otherwise you need to do it yourself. Either way, you call up OM and let him know you will NOT be f'ed with.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 06:26 PM
OM CONTACT

Talked to the OM today. He answered his phone at work.

Was about 10 minutes. He didn't exactly say much. I told him that I had the phone records and a PI report. I told him I know exactly when they had met. I TOLD him to NEVER contact my wife, daughter or anyone in my family AGAIN.

All he could say was you need to be having this conversation with your wife. I told him HE was the one who barged into MY marriage. He CHOOSE to do commit the A.

I got pretty worked up one momment and the guy told me to calm down. I couldnt believe it.

I told him what would happen if he ever contacted WW again. His 1st Sgt questioned him about it earlier so i can get him for violating a direct order.

So in reality I know this is just going to make them go underground deeper. Im watching though. He knows I DEMAND that he stop talking to my wife. He knows im not weak.


IMO im not the only one that the WW lied too. I dont think he had a CLUE I knew as much as I do and can prove.


Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 06:28 PM
ANd yet he's shocked that WW would lie to him? Pardon me while I rotflmao
Originally Posted by YEG
OM CONTACT

Talked to the OM today. He answered his phone at work.

Was about 10 minutes. He didn't exactly say much. I told him that I had the phone records and a PI report. I told him I know exactly when they had met. I TOLD him to NEVER contact my wife, daughter or anyone in my family AGAIN.

All he could say was you need to be having this conversation with your wife. I told him HE was the one who barged into MY marriage. He CHOOSE to do commit the A.

I got pretty worked up one momment and the guy told me to calm down. I couldnt believe it.

I told him what would happen if he ever contacted WW again. His 1st Sgt questioned him about it earlier so i can get him for violating a direct order.

So in reality I know this is just going to make them go underground deeper. Im watching though. He knows I DEMAND that he stop talking to my wife. He knows im not weak.


IMO im not the only one that the WW lied too. I dont think he had a CLUE I knew as much as I do and can prove.

hurray hurray Good Job!!!! You have put OM on notice that you are not rolling over and playing dead, that you will fight for your family, and that there will be SERIOUS consequences if he insists on continuing with this.

Even though you may be fired up right now, when you're around your WW, keep your cool and be the best husband you can be. Follow up on your exposure to his command. It would be so much more effective coming from you as the betrayed husband though.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 06:45 PM
Oh, and if your WW is in contact...prepare for some venom. That would also let you know they're contacting each other.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Oh, and if your WW is in contact...prepare for some venom. That would also let you know they're contacting each other.

And then just forward that contact to his CoC and get him AGAIN for violating a direct order. He'll eventually learn. It's just takes waywards and affair partners a little while to learn.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Talked to the OM today. He answered his phone at work.

[Linked Image from freesmileys.org]

Slam dunk for YEG!!


Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 07:19 PM
Quote
ANd yet he's shocked that WW would lie to him? Pardon me while I rotflmao


Yea he should have known better. Hes not a stupid guy and I think he is just learning what a huge hornet nest he ran into.

Quote
Even though you may be fired up right now, when you're around your WW, keep your cool and be the best husband you can be. Follow up on your exposure to his command. It would be so much more effective coming from you as the betrayed husband though.


Well the initial guy tried to say that there wasnt anything they can do. He said he asked him about it but was very sketchy about it.

He basically made excuses for him. He spewed garbage like hes gonna need more than pictures of them eating together. I got a GPS track and pictures of them going to a hotel on a overnight trip. not to mention 12 months of phone records. Hews just trying to protect his boy and its sickning.

Quote
Oh, and if your WW is in contact...prepare for some venom. That would also let you know they're contacting each other.


Its only a matter of time. If she tells me about it it basically narcs him out though. So it will likely be passive aggressive. Thats more her MO. She hasnt learned its not really effective anymore. With holding affection from me has already happened she cant hurt me anymore with that.

So if she is pissed at me for no apparent reason its a good litmus test.

Anyways its another hurdle in their A. I just hope this is finnally enough.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/13/10 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
He basically made excuses for him. He spewed garbage like hes gonna need more than pictures of them eating together. I got a GPS track and pictures of them going to a hotel on a overnight trip. not to mention 12 months of phone records. Hews just trying to protect his boy and its sickning.

Keep going up the ladder until someone does something about it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Spread it all over the base yourself if you have to.

Maybe if they continue to try and sweep things under the rug, you can get a lawyer the deals with this kind of stuff and potentially open them up to legal action. Talk to you lawyer about this.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/14/10 02:54 AM
Quote
Keep going up the ladder until someone does something about it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Spread it all over the base yourself if you have to.


Im working the system now. OMis on his heels since I confronted him. I dont think he contacted the WW yet. Im sure he will but I doubt he will be doing it on MY cell phone. Probably just try to work around me and hope WW calls him from a land line I dont control. I told him I may not catch them chatting or meeting the first time but I WILL catch them and there will be hell to pay.


On a lighter not the WW and I had a really good night. I spent the afternoon with DD4. We made salads together and ran around the block.

When the WW got home we chatted alot. No relationship talk just normal chit chat about her day, how her friends were and DD4 birthday party this weekend.

We made plans to do some work at her grandma's old house and to go on a trip later in the month again. Which watched a couple of TV shows and called it a night.

I know that the Yo-yo tha is my WW will drop again. Its still nice to spend pleasant time with her. Im learning to temper my feelings/expectations though. Otherwise when the fog rolls back in and the alien pops out its too hard.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/15/10 02:52 AM
So the last couple of days have been pretty good. She seems to have got over the me moving in part. yesterday we talked about our days and random stuff for well over an hour. We watched 2 shows together and she even put her legs up on me. Its amazing how 3 weeks ago i took that for granted now its like heaven.

We are working on our daughters birthday cake together. SHe also allowed me to go to her grandma's house to put a temparary fix on a window pane that fell out.

She still doesnt want to be around me all the time and does go to her parents house (confirmed with GPS and call to parents house). Only thing I hate there is their pesky landline and cell phones which I cant track.

She is distancing herself physically from me. She says she is not ready to be held and hugged. I respect these wishes since forcing them on her just to meet my needs for affection would be a LB.

I have the GPS installed on her car. This time its mine and is prepaid for a year. The KL has also not revealed anything.

There has been no calls or contact from the OM since I confronted him. I think maybe he just thought I had checked out on my marriage and was waiting for the divorce. I dont think he EVER thought I would fight for her the way I am. I think the PROMISE to expose him again to his command if he contacted her again was effective. Time will tell.


So how should I feel?

She is allowing me to meet needs I havent met in years and seems genuinely interested in spending time with me.

Im avoiding relationship talk like the plague. I am complimenting her on her clothes and the great job she does with things. Im taking care of the daughter so she can do housework and relax some and have been going out of my way to help around the house.

She still hasnt agreed with NC though. im hunting and snooping for Affair phones and any evidence like crazy. Im asking her where she was the day in a polite way and she has been open with it. Even though I already confirm her location with track.

I think im to the point where I just have to be vigilent in my monitoring and avoid LBs and meet ENs she will let me. She still tells me that she is decided if our marriage is worth trying again. Especially since she knows that the OM will have to be out of the picture now since she was exposed.

Isnt it normal for them to put it off for a while? I know she is fiending for him right now.

I think im doing the right thing. just kinda need a warm fuzzy.



Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/15/10 11:47 AM
Keep up the good job. Yes, it is normal for the WS not to commit after NC is in place. My WW didn't show any commitment for almost six months after her last contact w/ OM. I didn't have SF w/ my WW for 4.5 months after her last contact (almost 10 months total, needless to say, I probably didn't last the longest that night).

You are doing things right, meeting her needs, avoiding LBs, and snooping to assure NC. If you are worried about her contacting OM at her parents, just let them know to watch out for you. I'm pretty sure you and her will get through this alright. Just remember it is going to take a while. Most succesful recoveries take at least two years.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/15/10 12:10 PM
Quote
Keep up the good job. Yes, it is normal for the WS not to commit after NC is in place.

Thing is she hasnt COMMITTED to NC. Right now its being kinda forced on her by me. There is nothing stopping her from picking up the phone and a friends house.

She TOLD me she wasnt going to contact him until she made a decision if she things our marriage is savagable. (We know what words are worth).

Ive done almost everything I can do to kill it though. It just seems like im in a do loop till she mentally commits to me again.

Now im holding OM to NC per my conversation with him. I made HIM a promise and a man keeps his promises.

BTW i watched fireproof for the first time last night. I was tearing up at the end. Just hits so close to home. Should be required watching for inspiration.

Quote
I didn't have SF w/ my WW for 4.5 months after her last contact (almost 10 months total, needless to say, I probably didn't last the longest that night).

Not even sweating that. Sure being with her would be great but we havent had SF but maybe 2 times in the last year. Last time being octoberish.

Pretty much my needs are living on fumes right now. Occasionally ill say something or do something and she will just smile and me like she really appreciates it. That really cheers me up.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/15/10 01:02 PM
Don't worry about her not committing to NC. She's an addict, and even if she promised NC, it would probably be a lie. Just keep snooping and make it difficult for her to continue contact w/ OM.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/15/10 02:16 PM
Quote
Don't worry about her not committing to NC. She's an addict, and even if she promised NC, it would probably be a lie. Just keep snooping and make it difficult for her to continue contact w/ OM.

Im the OMs worse nightmare. Im going to watch my flock
Originally Posted by YEG
Im the OMs worse nightmare. Im going to watch my flock

YES!!! Keep it up!!!!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/15/10 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
Don't worry about her not committing to NC. She's an addict, and even if she promised NC, it would probably be a lie. Just keep snooping and make it difficult for her to continue contact w/ OM.

What Jim said. You wouldn't expect a falling-down drunk to commit to important things, right? Not only that, if they DID would you take their word for it? Heck no - they're drunks! Same thing applies here.

You're doing great, YEG.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/17/10 02:45 AM
WW is currently in a self deprecating stage. Always talking bad about herself.

Like i mention how this myself and the OM had been fighting over WW for years. She made a comment "just remember what little yall are fighting over." She will be supercritical of how she looks and stuff too.

Seems like withdrawal depression but just checking.


had a good weekend. party went well. No hitches. In laws all played nice. no one took a swipe at the WW pinata.

We went tot the movies on saturday. First time in months. She was kinda down in the dumps. There werea few long looks like she alsmost wanted me to kiss her. Didnt try since she has been avoifing physical contact with me. We did hold hands in the car. That was a pretty good breakthrough.

Anyways everything seems to be going to plan

BTW This weekend im setting up a surprise date for us in charleston. Was gonna take her down to High Cotton (fav steak place). Its abouta 60 minutes away and we have early reservations so we can make it back home in time. Im wearing a brand new suit she is gonna love I picked out just for this night. Im really excited.

Question
Lets say the dinner runs too long. Do I suggest a room for the night or suck it up and drive back? I dont wanna make her uncomfortable but would love to curl up with her all night.

Too much too soon or just let her kinda guide me with comments?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/17/10 03:16 AM
Don't mention OM. That will only prolong withdrawal.

As for the date, I wouldn't suggest a room. Let her suggest it if she is tired.

Keep up the good work.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/17/10 11:27 AM
Quote
Don't mention OM. That will only prolong withdrawal.


That makes sense. I havent mentioned him lately. I'll continue with that plan though.

Quote
As for the date, I wouldn't suggest a room. Let her suggest it if she is tired.


Thats pretty much what I was thinking. I doubt she will suggest it and dinner is early enough that we can easily get home by 10ish at the latest.

One thing she is pressing is that she wants to take it slow. I think thats fair so im supporting it and not trying to press her into stuff she isnt ready for. She is starting to feel safe I think.
What happened with your friend and the military isn't surprising. The problem is that you are having someone do your dirty work for you rather than you doing it yourself.

If I was a commander and had a guy in my unit that was well respected and liked, I would need A LOT more than a third hand account of adultery to confront him.

If I had the woman's husband call me up and tell me that OM in his unit was having an affair, that would be a very different story.

I might ask for evidence and would certainly have enough with what you have to at least directly confront the guy and give him a good butt chewing and then issue him a direct order to stop contacting your wife. Any break of that order would be followed by a court-martial.

This is why it is important that YOU contact OM's chain of command and speak to his commander directly.

Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/17/10 08:12 PM
I agree completely here. I think you need to become personally involved in this for the CoC to give it the merit it deserves. Not to be done in a spiteful way, but just like any other exposure.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/18/10 12:02 PM
Wifes depression is just killing her atm. She jsut wants to sitt around all day and mope. I really wish I coulod livel her up more. In stead i just chit chat with her and tell her he hair looks great,

Maybe she will clear the flog for friday. we are going to hihg Cotton in charleston. Gonnahave some steaks with bernaine sauce.

Im all decked out in A blue pinbstrip number and lime green SHIRT and tie.

Maybe I need a nice cologne.

Other thing im doing is im giving and giving but the wife is basically just sitting there. She is just in such a depression.

Im assuming thats normal for this point.

While i was writting this I got a panic yell from the wife. Apparently DD4 hasa stomach bug and puked all over the wifes bed.

We gave DD4 a bath and i got all the soiled sheets and put them in the wash for her. She asked me to go get some cokes and ginger ale from the store which I did.

I had already taken my medicine for the night which includes ambien. It makes me very emotional so i sorta broke down. I was babbling a bit and the wife told me this.

She told me the reason why she was keeping me away was because she wanted to protect me from myself. She didnt wanna see me ruin the work i did. Pretty sure she was talking about the divorce.

Is this just WW babbling? Not sure how to interpret that.
Posted By: nesre Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/18/10 12:25 PM
Yeg

Don;t have much time right now but this article by Dr Harley talks about the partner going through withdrawal. It is mainly the bottom 1/3 near the bottom but the whole article is good.

Read Me

Sound like your W may be there which believe it or not is a good thing!

Nesre
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/18/10 10:34 PM
I thought that might be it as well. Call it cautious optimism.

Problem for me is that the temparary hearing for the divorce is in late june. I do NOT want to go through the process but i want her to go NC before I call it off. Im trying to get the process started for a reconciliation agreement but I want to include her in that decision.

I know I cant make this marriage work by myself. I need her to want to save it too.

I know shes the equivalent of a falling down drunk still but I dont want to go through the pain of having the divorce over my head. I know in her depression its hard but its hard living seperated in our own house too.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 01:39 AM
PARENTS AND BROTHER THINK IM MAKING A MISTAKE

I spent the afternoon with the WW. She asked me to watch a show and we talked. The subject of reconciliation came up again. She told me she was still thinking about it. She told me that she didnt want me to stop the process yet because my parents would get on me for opening up legally to her. I told her that my parents would understand regardless.

She told me that after years of asking she is finally getting the things she always asked for. She just wonders if it is too late.

Then i get to my moms house. I told her that the WW is still thinking about it. Mom lays into me how she is worthless and I am oging about this all wrong. I should be avoiding her and letting her feel the pain of what its like without me. She says all im doing is rewarding bad behavior and encouraging another affair. The WW was always very secretive and mom says she cant live with that anymore.

Mom also says im doing all these great things for her and geting nothing in return. Im just gonna set her up on a pedestial and she will walk all over me.

IMO im making progress with the WW. She CANT provide for me needs right now. She is in the fog and is only 17 days after D-Day.

If I treat her well and make her feel safe eventually our love bank will fill up and she will WANT to meet my needs.

Please tell me im doing the right thing. I dont want to go back to being a weak man. She WILL have to make changes. First I have to show her the man I am becoming.

please give me some feedback that im not all AFU on the process.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 01:44 AM
Ya know, YEG, your Mom sorta kinda has MB thoughts in mind, she's just got them in the wrong order. smile She's being protective of her child. I can't fault her for that. You're doing the right thing. Keep it up.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 02:51 AM
Hi Yeg:

I have followed your thread with great interest and I am pulling for you.

I am 59 y/o and my wife had an affair several years ago. All that stuff is behind us and we are doing well.

What I see in your thread is that the two of you were VERY distant from each other and hence the affair developed. In one thread you implied that you used to sleep in separate quarters before d-day. At age 33 that is unthinkable and tells me the two of you were miles apart.

Affairs can develop even in perfect marriages where there is no distance between the spouses and even then it is difficult to have success.

You are only a couple of weeks past d-day and I can see your wife checked out a long time ago and hence this is going to take a very long time to work out.

Concentrate in maintaining NC for your wife and endure the withdrawal. Do not attempt to be romantic. IN doing so you probably look very strange to your wife because she was getting her needs met by OM for over four years.

Four years is a long time and you will have to have a lot of patience before she comes around. She needs to get over OM and this will take some time.

So I suggest PATIENCE and do not try to speed things up.

As for OM--------- you need to pay a personal visit to his COIC or NCOIC and discuss the issue.

I also believe that your wife is the type of woman that needs to have her ENs met 24/7.

I will say that I admire your tenacity and that you are on the right track. However, this will take a lot of time.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 03:00 AM
You are doing the right thing. The best way to motivate her to make some changes is to show her that you've made some changes first.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 01:16 PM
hi Yeg,
You are on the right track, she needs to see and believe in the things that were missing in the relationship......
She has for years believed that what she needed wasn't going to come from you.
She wanted it to be you, she loved and married you......
Be the man she always dreamed you would be and eventually she will see that you are worth believing in and committing to your marriage...
She will slowly think of your needs and when you see some little things happening(holding hands in the car) you will know she is starting to think about the possibilities.......
You can not rush this, just enjoy spending time with your wife and being in heaven as you describe it. She will eventually fall in love with you again like you have with her......I'm always amazed at how it hits us that we really do love our spouses when we are faced with losing them........
I'm sorry we have to get to that point but it doesn't mean we can't get back to what we should have been doing in the first place....
I'm proud of you for trying and not expecting a whole lot yet.....
It's all worth it but it does take time.........
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 04:09 PM
Quote
I have followed your thread with great interest and I am pulling for you.


Thanks stanley. I appreciate the feedback. It really keeps me grounded on the bad days and is sort of my light at the end of the tunnel. Its nice to know there is hope.

Quote
What I see in your thread is that the two of you were VERY distant from each other and hence the affair developed. In one thread you implied that you used to sleep in separate quarters before d-day. At age 33 that is unthinkable and tells me the two of you were miles apart.


Its true. She told me last June that she had been thinking about seperation. I thought about moving out but instead I moved intot he spare bedroom. Now I know that last June was about the time the PA started.

Looking back now I was a fool for letting it ge that bad. After we got married I slowly just let our marriage decay. I wasnt putting anything into it and eventually she reached out to someone else.

Quote
You are only a couple of weeks past d-day and I can see your wife checked out a long time ago and hence this is going to take a very long time to work out.


Agree totally.

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Concentrate in maintaining NC for your wife and endure the withdrawal. Do not attempt to be romantic. IN doing so you probably look very strange to your wife because she was getting her needs met by OM for over four years


Im watching the lines and she knows it. She tells me when she calls strange numbers. She has been fairly honest on contact since D-Day and there is no action on the KL, GPS or the phone in over a week. Cant find a affair phone either so I think she outgrew that.

I am taking her out on dinners and such. Im keeping the conversation light and avoiding physical contact unless she initiates it.I am taking her on day trips since that is a major need of hers.

She told me last night that she is finally getting the changes she wanted for years. She just wonders if its too little too late. I suspect If I continue to meet her needs and take it at her pace she will come to decide its worth it to give our marriage one more chance. Thats all I really want is a chance at recovery free of the 3rd person in our M.

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So I suggest PATIENCE and do not try to speed things up.


Its hard. She is worth it though so im willing to wait.

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As for OM--------- you need to pay a personal visit to his COIC or NCOIC and discuss the issue.


In my conversation with him I told him if he contacts her again I will go up the chain. Ive decided I wont do it till he contacts her. They may be liars and dishonorable but I am not. I will keep my promise to him if he contacts her again.

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I also believe that your wife is the type of woman that needs to have her ENs met 24/7.


She is. I always thought since she was so independant on the outside that she didnt. I couldnt have been more wrong. She just has DIFFERENT EN that I never considered. She doesnt crave affection or SF. She REALLY wants conversation, Recreational companionship and admiration though. If she doesnt get those she quickly loses patience and seeks them elsewhere.

She looked for these from me when her and the OM were engaged and now she went back to the OM for them when I was didnt provide them.

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I will say that I admire your tenacity and that you are on the right track. However, this will take a lot of time.


Well I have a very 1 track minds. Its a weakness. When i tend to want something I focus all my efforts on it. Be it work, play or my marriage. Im pretty much devoting all my time to her that she will allow me.

The key will be if we can get out of the woods. I have to take steps in my life to avoid falling into old traps. I now appreciate her more than ever so I should be able to do that.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
She told me last night that she is finally getting the changes she wanted for years. She just wonders if its too little too late.

If she says this again, just confidently state that it isn't too late. Lead by example. If you believe you can work it out, she'll start believing. Just keep meeting her needs and she'll start seeing that for herself.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/19/10 04:41 PM
Great point. There is no expiration date on lifelong vows (til death do us part).

Keep up the good work YEG.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/20/10 04:25 AM
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She REALLY wants conversation, Recreational companionship and admiration

My wife's No,1 EN is admiration. The reason she had an affair was because OM gave her admiration.

If your wife wants admiration give it to her even if it sounds too corny. Praise and praise non stop. What may sound like too much may be just right for her.

The need for admiration is a risk for an affair. So this can never stop----------------it has to be a life-long mission.

My wife still resonates and reverberates with remarks of admiration, her facial expression changes and it clearly hits home quite well.

Any woman that loves admiration is likely to avoid any judgmental remark like the plague. Do not challenge her because her defense shields will go up and she will stop talking.

Good luck!

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/20/10 04:51 PM
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If your wife wants admiration give it to her even if it sounds too corny. Praise and praise non stop. What may sound like too much may be just right for her.

The need for admiration is a risk for an affair. So this can never stop----------------it has to be a life-long mission.

My wife still resonates and reverberates with remarks of admiration, her facial expression changes and it clearly hits home quite well.

It DEFINATLY yields results. I also agree that this will always be a weak point with her. SHe wants her ideas to be taken seriously. She likes me to say thanks you alot.

I thanks her for EVERYTHING now. Thanks for cooking. Mm the pot roast is great! I really enjoyed the movie tonite and spending time with you.

She eats this up.

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Any woman that loves admiration is likely to avoid any judgmental remark like the plague. Do not challenge her because her defense shields will go up and she will stop talking.

Good luck!

That is EXACTLY my wife. She doesnt want me to give her solutions. She wants me to support her in HER discovery of them. If I press to hard she clams up. She just wants me to hug her and say everything is going to be alright.

Thanks for insight. Was unsure if I was meeting this EN right. I feel at least im on the right track now.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/20/10 05:16 PM
I read a big chunk of affair emails between my wife and her OM. The OM used the technique of admiration to the point of being extremely corny and excessive. Sometimes he was way over the top, however, it worked like a charm.

Women that seek admiration also love to be told they are beautiful at all times. You can say it several times in a row and the effect persists.


Perhaps I sound too sarcastic, but I believe this is true for the folks that need admiration.

It is also possible your wife may feel you are judging her with the way you look at her or even if you make a non-related comment about something else.

You will also discover that there are infidelity topics in the news, TV, and basically everywhere. You must be careful as to what you say about this.





Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/20/10 05:37 PM
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I read a big chunk of affair emails between my wife and her OM. The OM used the technique of admiration to the point of being extremely corny and excessive. Sometimes he was way over the top, however, it worked like a charm.

I have 0 emails. Just massive phone logs and the PI report. I know from when THEY were engaged she would call me and just complain about how bad he was. That was the crack in the marraige that he exploited to slither back in. Then over the years she gave up.

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Women that seek admiration also love to be told they are beautiful at all times. You can say it several times in a row and the effect persists.
She says this makes her uncomfortable. Instead I focus on how nice her hair is how good the dress or shoes look on her.

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It is also possible your wife may feel you are judging her with the way you look at her or even if you make a non-related comment about something else.

You will also discover that there are infidelity topics in the news, TV, and basically everywhere. You must be careful as to what you say about this.

I was judging her before. Now when i talk to her I always look her in the eyes and smile.

Your not kidding about infidelity on TV. Its EVERYWHERE. I basically just ignore it because I dont wanna dwell on the past. I focus on my positive past and future and assure her that we can do it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/21/10 02:59 AM
Quick update

Another positive day. We went to DD4 grad party. We sat together and we went out afterwards to eat. She brought up relationship talk. She basically asked why I wanted her back so bad. She pointed out he fact that she was distant, not affectionate and wasnt even close to meeting my needs.

I simply told her I wanted her back because I have faith in our marraige. I did bring up the fact that I get this from a strong conviction that God is looking out for our marriage. I didnt try to invoke a sense of religion on her though she claims to be religious and the "limbo" (her words) our marriage is in is terrible.

We ended up going for coffee afterwards. She once again brought up "to little to late". I stated that the changes I have made are real as is my love for her. She said she was waiting for the other shoe to drop. For me to get angry about her losing her job. Bizzare because her losing her job isnt even in the same realm as the pain her A has caused me.

Anyways we have our big night out. Looking forward to it. Even though she is still keeping her distance from me her hard candy shell is cracking. As always im cautiosly optimistic but im still watching for "outside influences".
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/21/10 03:05 AM
I think you are doing a great job when spending time with her, keep telling her that she is worth the effort and that your marriage means everything to you...
Tell her it's never to late to change and learn....
Just try to meet her needs and eventually she will do small things for you as well, that's when you will know she is softening to your efforts...
Take your time and enjoy being with her again.......
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/21/10 12:32 PM
Who did WW work for, and was it with OM?

Could her affair of caused her to get fired?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/21/10 03:35 PM
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Who did WW work for, and was it with OM?

OM works for the military. WW worked for the government but in a completely different location and section of the government. Their work never overlapped.

As for her getting fired it was for cause. There was a date something was required to be completed by and it didnt get done. The paperwork got fudged instead of owning up to it.

Its seemingly unrelated but there is no telling if the guilt and turmoil in her life didn't contribute to the lack of judgment.

For my plan A im not focusing on past events. Im supporting her just watching DD4 and getting another job when she is ready. She is working part time and I make enough money to keep us fairly comfortable.

In the past I always worried about money more than her feelings. That was a serious LB. When asked about it I told her im just here to support her in whatever decision she wants to make. She is more important to me than an extra 0 in my account balance.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/22/10 04:59 AM
UPS AND DOWNS

Well tonight was our big date. WW has been ill for a few days. I met her at the house and went running then later picked up some stuff for her from the drug store. After i got back she mentioned that she wanted to go to a store that just happened to be in the city we were going to. Thats when i told her our plans for the evening. She was very excited.

WW said, "I dont know if the cold or the plans but just take this." Then she came in next to me and asked for a hug which I gladly gave. Didnt say anything just took it at face value.

We went shopping after we got to the city we were visiting. i paid for all the stuff. She pretended to object and even tried to push me away from the card reader at one of the stores. I just told her no and refused to let her pay. She just said how weird it was and let me.

We had a very nice dinner. We watched the people walking on the sidewalk and kept the conversation pretty light.

When we were done we were walking to the car. She turned to me and said she really had a good time and thanked me.

Then she said, "Dont read anything into this, just accept it" Then she grabbed my hand and we held hands back tot he car.

Car trip back wasn't as smooth. About half the way back (was about a 90 minute drive) she started crying. Basically told that she had serious doubt if we could make it work. She made comments like its been great for a week and a half but she was waiting for the down cycle. I assured her we would stick together and i would take care of her.

I then asked her to just let me stop the D process. She again refused. She said she still needs time to decide if our marriage can be saved. I assured her it can and i had faith in us. Told her i thought God was looking out for our marraige and would help us out.

She then told me she wasn't sure what God wanted us to do. I didnt comment on that because it seemed so preposterous to me that God would want us to toss away our vows and get a D. It still hurt though.

I told her i felt like there is a giant hourglass in the background. I told her that soon a date would be set for the temparary hearing (actually is already set for late june I just didnt wanna give her a deadline). I told her they would serve her the complaint which looks aweful. I told her that i would have to write up a deposition saying all the stuff she did wrong as would our families. I told her that there would be discovery where we would be forced to answer all kinds of questions. I told her I didnt want that because I DONT wanna know details. I also never wanna see the OM but he inevitably would be dragged into the D hearing.

I told her I just wanted to focus on our future together and move forward with our life. Still she said she didnt want me to stop the process until she had made a final decision.

The conversation was going no where so i changed the subject. Rest of the way home mainly sat in silence.

When we got to the house we watched about and hour and a half worth of TV. I asked her if we could curl up the couch together so i could hold her. She said she would lean against me. So she watched the shows with her head on my lap. I ran my fingers through her hair the whole time and she didnt object. Even assured me that it wasnt hurting once.

When she went to bed I tucked her in. I asked her if she wanted me to hold her till she ent to bed. She agreed but only if I didnt sleep in the same room as her. So I did that and returned to my bedroom.

Overall the night was a success. We seem closer than we have been in years but she still refuses to stop the D process.

I dont know what to do.

The temp hearing is in 3 or 4 weeks. I dont want to put us through that pain of seeing the complaint papers where she so publically gets called an adulteress. I dont mention the A much really at this point. I try to just focus on our future. I know that EP will have to be taken so it never happens again but she isnt even accepting the way out of this nightmare im offering.

OM contact is still negative so hes not influencing this. its just a question of her wanting to keep trying. She is letting me meet more and more needs which is good but she doesnt wanna commit to reconciling.

She will be served 10 days prior to the hearing. What should be my plan of attack regarding the hearing? Do I let her get served then go for a continuance to put off the pain of seeing the statements from everyone? Do I not let her get served before I postpone it?

To make this clear im NOT going to go through with it. I will drop my complaint before I do that. Just didnt know if it would be better to let her feel the pressure of the D she doesnt wanna stop a little.

hopefully it wont come to that but i have to have a contingency plan.

Her parents come back from vacation this weekend. Maybe their support can convince he to stop it sooner rather than later. Just dont wanna blow the good progress im making.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/22/10 12:41 PM
Sometimes people procrastinate until deadlines (especially your WW). If you continue to do a good plan A and she's been out of contact w/ OM for what would be about 6 weeks at that time, I bet she'll drop it the day before the hearing. Remember how withdrawal works. After 2-3 weeks, the worst is over. After 2-3 months, most of it is over, and after 6 months it should be complete. I think you'll see your WW commit to the marriage again in the 3-6 month timeframe. Just keep up your plan A changes.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/22/10 01:27 PM
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After 2-3 weeks, the worst is over
Right in that time frame. Although they have spoke once on the phone since then. Things are a 1000 times better in just a few short weeks.

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Sometimes people procrastinate until deadlines (especially your WW). If you continue to do a good plan A and she's been out of contact w/ OM for what would be about 6 weeks at that time, I bet she'll drop it the day before the hearing.


So let her get served?

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Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.


I guess seeing the iniial divorce filing wouldnt be a huge negative. its a REAL consequence for her actions seeing $$$ and reading taudry words like "adulterous relationship with another man" and "now and forever barred from alimony" could be classified as a stick.

Im just in such a weird spot. We have already agreed that if we reconcile we want a reconciliation agreement. She is worried that my family will think she just got back with me to clear my bar on alimony and the $$$ consequences of her actions (8k legal and PI fees. Reduced child support due to getting deemed income). So WW wants it so I wont have a rift between me and my parents.

The agreement will have to be approved by a judge. So i dont wanna push off the date before its neccessary. That way the agreement could be approved and we could be DONE with this disquesting process.

At the hearing though all the statements from family members and myself will presented and she will get a copy of them. Though she KNOWS my parents and family are EXTREMELY upset with her and MUCH less amicable to her than me. I dont want WW to EVER read the word they are gonna right about this. I also dont want to ahve to get her Dad and mom involved but i will have to have them write up a statement as well since she confessed to them. Awkward.

So its a wierd game of chicken. How close can i get to the edge without falling off the cliff.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/22/10 03:49 PM
She is confused and uncertain because in her mind she is in love with OM.

I know you do not want to reveal MB methods, but I would explain to her the physiology of falling in love as well as the brain chemistry changes. Helen Fisher has written about this quite a bit.

If she knows her withdrawal will end at some point then she will be more positive about the future.

When my wife was in withdrawal she knew quite well the treatment was NC.

One more question:

If she was to divorce you. IS OM viable and available for a relationship with her?

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/22/10 05:52 PM
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If she was to divorce you. IS OM viable and available for a relationship with her?

Yes. he already told WW that he wanted to be with her. he is single. The only negative is that he is soon transfering overseas. So if she was to chase after him it would either cost her DD4 or if the judge refused me custody she would be taking DD4 away from me, her parents and my parents. All of which spend considerable amounts of time with her.

It would also cost him his career since I would do everything in my power to ensure that he gets punished to the maximum extent possible.

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If she knows her withdrawal will end at some point then she will be more positive about the future.

She has been better as the contact has been cut. She just seems like she is trying to drag it out.
Posted By: Gerkaguards Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/22/10 06:00 PM
If OM is single, I seriously doubt his command gives a damn about his contact with your wife. While it's certainly not honorable behavior, it's also "Not their problem." That's how most commanders would see it, IMO.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/23/10 05:06 AM
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Yes. he already told WW that he wanted to be with her. he is single. The only negative is that he is soon transfering overseas. So if she was to chase after him it would either cost her DD4 or if the judge refused me custody she would be taking DD4 away from me, her parents and my parents. All of which spend considerable amounts of time with her.

I don't think judges allow one parent to take a child away from the other parent if you have dual custody. She will have to be close to you for many years to come.

I am sad to hear OM is single. He could be a pain in the rear for years to come.

As of now the only thing that you must concentrate on is NC. BTW, NC must be hermetic, no text, emails, no reading of old emails, not looking at photos, etc.

My wife's OM was 2000 miles away and completely not viable even though he was single. She had no choice but to go NC, there was no future in there. IN fact, at d-day I begged her to leave the house and go live with OM, but she refused.

Anyway keep up the NC and keep the divorce proceedings alive.

I have to warn you that most WWs manage to break NC at some point.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/23/10 05:42 AM
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If OM is single, I seriously doubt his command gives a damn about his contact with your wife. While it's certainly not honorable behavior, it's also "Not their problem." That's how most commanders would see it, IMO.

He wont go to the brig. Not stupid enough to think that. They DO care if he violates orders. In all honesty since I confronted him he hasnt talked to her once. Hes got 17 years in. Its just not worth it for him to lose his retirement for a girl that already dumped him once and most likely wont follow him to his next duty station.

NEW WEIRD UPDATE FROM BIZZARO LAND

So tonite I think I finally got the breakthrough on the root cause or the BIG need I wasnt meeting.

Whenever she came to me with a problem instead of just comforting her i would always try to solve it. All she wanted me to do was hold her and tell her everything was gonna be OK. Somehow I managed to mess that up for 7 yrs now.

We were watching a show and one of the scenes triggered that. I did my best to comfort her but she still had to put space between us. She called me from her parents house to let me know she was safe and mentioned me not meeting her need. I told her I know I had screwed up in the past but I was a new man. I told her I had finally figured it out and would be there for her in the future.

All she could get out was, "Is all ive been asking for for 7 years now!" before she started crying and had to hang up the phone.

I gave her a few minutes then went over there. I got there and just held her for a few minutes. She realized she had forgotten her pillow at our house and I went back to get it. When i came back I ended up watching a movie with her and tucking WW into bed. Then i went back to our house.

So I think im dealing alot with a loss of trust. Kinda bizzare since SHE was the one cheating on ME but its still a real issue with WW. Im doing the best to be there for her but its hard to make up for 7 years of doing something wrong in a few weeks.

I FEEL like we are making progress. She is coming to me now for me to hold her when she is sad. She is wanting me to be there for her. She is letting me take care of her. She is still procrastinating with letting me call of the D though.

I guess she is just gonna drag it out. Its not a HUGE deal since she isnt contacting OM. Just wanna get past this so we can keep working on our marriage without the D over our head.
While I wouldn't be completely dismissive of her EN, I would also keepin mind that WW'es rewrite history.

So right now you're the most insensitive a$$ in the world.

I look back now at what my ex complained about me and I take it with a grain of salt on some things.

Listen a lot and repeat things back to her. Yes, you have things you need to fix, but nothing justified her affair, as you already know.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 11:35 AM
small step backwards today.

We were picking up MIL and FIL for when she returned from a trip yesterday. She was distant all day. Keeping me at arms reach all day.

She was sick all weekend so that might be part of it. Hasnt been able to sleep well and has been cranky. Just know we are Back to the one word answers and such. She is uncomfortable letting me touch her again too.

Its disheartening because just a couple days ago we were holding hands and having a great time. Few nights ago she laid her head on my lap and let me run my fingers through her hair while we watched a show.

She stayed at her parents last night. I had DD4 and she was pretty much crying for her mom till she went to bed. Before I went to sleep I called WW. She was tired and said she was going to bed. Let her know that DD4 was upset. Alot of that has to do with the fact that she is staying away at her parents house alot. Wanted her to know that her actions are impacting negatively on DD4.

Overall not a huge blip though. The past week or so has been pretty good considering.

I think ive decided that I will let WW get served the papers at least. Maybe seeing that complaint paperwork for real will be the stick it takes to commit back to the marriage. She still has 3 weeks to do her "thinking".

Probably will not have the temp hearing though. Will seek a continuance if she hasnt decided by then. Just dont want her to have to see the statements from me and my family.
Statements from your family donļæ½t matter unless they are made on the stand and under oath. Trust me on that. Judges donļæ½t care what someone writes on a piece of paper. They dismiss them as heresay.

They do have a psychological impact on your WW, though.

Family testimony could be helpful, but judges also understand that your family will say good things about you and vice versa.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 03:46 PM
Quick Update STDs and Temp Hearing.

I made an appointment for this afternoon to get screened for STDs. Its something I wanted to do for a while. I asked her "If I had to be worried about". She said no. Honestly I cant trust her though right now.

We have used protection since DD4. So I should be ok. Just had to know for sure. I told her I was going to the Dr. She asked me why and I told her. She was a little down about it but she couldn't blame me. Its not like the OM was exclusive with my WW.

Also if I could get some more thoughts on how far I should let the D go.

Can read past posts if you want but it boils down to this.

I initially filed for a D when I found out. Now I wanna save my M. She doesnt want me to stop the process till she has completely decided to recommit to the M.

I THINK the initial hearing is scheduled for the 21st ish of June which means she will me served 10 days prior. She knows Ive filed but she doesnt know the date.

I want her to feel some pressure. I dont want to actually do even the temp hearing though. I dont want her to have to see my families (and her's) statements that will be presented there. Things are going to be rough for a long while with my fam anyways. Dont wanna make it harder.

on the other hand she is delaying this decision. She is adamant about not stoping the D process till she makes the decision.

So how far do I let it go?

Im leaning right now to letting her get served then ask for a continuance. I KNOW im not going through with the process but its a REAL consequence.

Thanks
Yeg
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 03:52 PM
If you don't want to divorce and it doesn't hurt you legally to stop the proceedings, you can stop the divorce whenever you want, although the prospect of getting divorced might motivate her into working on the marriage more quickly. It's up to you. If you don't want a divorce, just drop the divorce. It doesn't matter what she wants, it's your life too. You can always re-file if you want to.
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
Statements from your family donļæ½t matter unless they are made on the stand and under oath. Trust me on that. Judges donļæ½t care what someone writes on a piece of paper. They dismiss them as heresay.

They do have a psychological impact on your WW, though.

Family testimony could be helpful, but judges also understand that your family will say good things about you and vice versa.

This is not true in South Carolina. From my understanding, no one testifies at the temporary hearing and the Judge makes his rulings based on affidavits filed by the parties each stating their position. This is why Yeg is worried I think... about her seeing his and other's affidavits about why Yeg should be granted temporary relief based on his assertions of adultery.

The Judge will determine whether temporary alimony is required, child custody, support and visitation issued... based on those affidavits and who he believes.
However, temporary rulings are just that, temporary. A final ruling (decree) won't be made until the end of the case after all the evidence is presented and heard.

I believe this temporary hearing will be a strong dose of reality for his wife about what her life may look like if she continues on the way she is. It IS scary and a crap shoot for Yeg, but at this point, his wife is already gone... and he needs to protect himself IN CASE she doesn't come around.
In a way, youļæ½re making it easier for her since she can always say, ļæ½I wanted to fix things, but he filed.ļæ½

I say this: You want to save your marriage, so withdraw the D. Put it in her court. That would be a gesture that says, ļæ½Iļæ½m willing to save my marriage. I wonļæ½t do your dirty work for you. I wonļæ½t D. I will work on us. If you want a D, you can file.ļæ½

Thatļæ½s my advice. Youļæ½re setting up a good precedent by maintaining a good custody schedule with your son. Keep that up and keep documenting when you see him and what you do with him. Thatļæ½s important.

You mentioned that you worry sometimes that your son may not be your son. Is there anything to make you think so? You willing to test his DNA?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 07:22 PM
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I say this: You want to save your marriage, so withdraw the D. Put it in her court. That would be a gesture that says, ļæ½Iļæ½m willing to save my marriage. I wonļæ½t do your dirty work for you. I wonļæ½t D. I will work on us. If you want a D, you can file.ļæ½

If it comes down to it I WILL drop it. Or she will have to refile or whatever her options are. I have 0 intentions of going through with it.

She doesnt want me to stop it yet because she claims she doesnt want my family to think she is a gold digger and recommitting to the marriage to wipe my bar on alimony (forgiveness is a defense for an affair in SC).

I WANT to have a reconciliation agreement in place. It makes me feel safer. IM the victim here. Do I want the security more than I do want to save my M? No. I DO want her to feel the pressure a bit.

Right now she is still staying in the family home, she sees our child everyday and she isnt feeling much financial pressure. Im still meeting her needs. Only thing that has changed for her is OM isnt contacting her.

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Youļæ½re setting up a good precedent by maintaining a good custody schedule with your son. Keep that up and keep documenting when you see him and what you do with him. Thatļæ½s important.

I see DD4 everynight at least. I get to come over and tuck her into bed. Ive actually seen her much more than that since I still spend alot of time with the WW.

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You mentioned that you worry sometimes that your son may not be your son. Is there anything to make you think so? You willing to test his DNA?

The first year or so she wasnt in contact with OM that I ever found it. DD4 was one of the main reasons she reached out for him. So im almost 100% sure she is mine. In all honesty I dont wanna know different because that would be a GIANT hurdle for me to clear.

She has assured me that the PA began about a year ago which is what I figured. So in the end no Im not going to pursue that.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
She doesnt want me to stop it yet because she claims she doesnt want my family to think she is a gold digger and recommitting to the marriage to wipe my bar on alimony (forgiveness is a defense for an affair in SC).

Does dropping the divorce constitute forgiveness or do you have to have SF? If you drop the case now and don't have SF, can you still refile claiming adultery? Either way, if you need to refile again, all you have to prove is inclination and opportunity. She won't leave you except for OM, so if she does end the marriage, you have her tracked to prove future opportunity, and I think you pretty much have inclination as a slam dunk.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 08:01 PM
Quote
Does dropping the divorce constitute forgiveness or do you have to have SF?

Depends on the judge. My lawyer strongly recommends I get the D. Im not doing that but I think its prudent to ask for a Reconciliation agreement. Ill talk to the lawyer about the temp hearing. I can tell you they dont take testimony just the statements.

Quote
Either way, if you need to refile again, all you have to prove is inclination and opportunity. She won't leave you except for OM, so if she does end the marriage, you have her tracked to prove future opportunity, and I think you pretty much have inclination as a slam dunk.

Opportunity is a PITA to prove. Expensive too. It cost me 2500 last time.

In the end going as far as Im going is only meant to be a cattle prod. Its the cold shower of consequences. She just seems to be a fence sitter procrastinating this decision. Not surprising since she ALWAYS procrastinated on things.

If I just drop it out right she can basically wait indefinatly. Im willing to wait but it hurts so bad. This limbo of half way seperated sucks. I know im preaching to the choir. Sitting in the doctors office and talking to him about STDs was just the latest in the demeaning world of D.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Opportunity is a PITA to prove. Expensive too. It cost me 2500 last time.

You have GPS on her car, right? You are telling me that you can't prove she's in contact w/ OM again? You can track her wherever she goes. If her care is at OM's place, I seriously doubt opportunity would be that hard to prove, especially with her previous inclination.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/24/10 08:26 PM
Quote
You have GPS on her car, right? You are telling me that you can't prove she's in contact w/ OM again? You can track her wherever she goes. If her care is at OM's place, I seriously doubt opportunity would be that hard to prove, especially with her previous inclination.


You got a point. She doesnt know about the KL or GPS.

Hopefully it wont EVER come to that. She still has 4 weeks till the temp hearing. We have made so much progress in just a few short weeks.

I appreciate your feedback Jim. Ill prepare my statements like im going to go through with the hearing and ill make the decision on it closer.

I think alot of the reason I'm sweating it is because today and yesterday were just really foggy days. The weekend was so much fun so I was due for a letdown.

i'll just put my faith in God and my marriage and hope she comes about the decision.

Im also thinking about the contacting the harleys for coaching services. Any thoughts?

My local personal counciler is good but its hard to argue with their track record. it IS their plan as well. A close friend is having his first appointment with them tommorow. I'll see how his goes. Its alot of money but its worth it to sav my marriage.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/26/10 12:27 AM
Inspired by a friend.

At work I have a blood brother. He is going through the same stuff with his WW. He is fighting for his M. I refered him to Dr H and he had wonderful results.

Ive decided im making the appts with Dr H as well. Hes the BEST at this and id be a fool to not use that resource. I spent tons of money to end my M. Its time to spend real money to save it.

Ive also contacted my lawyer. The D is off. I cant talk out of both sides of my mouth.

Ive getting some great advice but i cant go through the program half way.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/26/10 11:13 AM
Great news. Fight the best you can. Does your F post here?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/26/10 04:02 PM
Quote
Does your F post here?

No but encouraged him too. He is reading the articles and stuff.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/26/10 09:01 PM
Can anyone direct me to some good bible verses and explanations (I'm not a real bible expert at all) that I can present to her when she talks about God?

I mentioned to her that God HATES divorce. She countered me with a verse that read something like if a man's wife commits adultery he has the RIGHT to cast her aside and divorce her.

I countered that instead I wanted to support her through this. I didn't want a Divorce. Thats why I stopped the D process.

Here are some ones I found

Matt:19
John:8
1st Chronicles:7

My wife is from a preachers family so she knows the bible better than me. She may SAY she doesnt know what God wants her to do. Thats just the fog justifying actions though. She knows in her heart right from wrong.

Ive never asked for this before but any prayers anyone could send my way would be sincerely appreciated.

Little update to lighten the mood. Told her last night that I didnt want a D anymore and have stopped the process. I told her that love doesnt use a hammer to get its way.

Also told her that I have contacted Steve Harley and that he is for real. He can help us through this as he has helped 1000s of couples. I gave her his number and invited her to make an appointment that it was prepaid. Didn't ask for a commitment just want her to gather information.

I basically tried to show her that there was a way out of this besides D. Hopefully Steve can help me with a good plan.

Also i contacted my PI about researching if the WW got an A phone. He can do it but its pricey ($225). Probably am going to do it because if she has one im going to have to find it.

Best of luck to everyone.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/26/10 11:56 PM
Shop around. I think a PI should be able to get that info for cheaper. Give a shout out on now_what's thread and get his PI's info.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/27/10 09:28 PM
Had first appointment with Steve Harley today. I strongly recommend it if you have the means. I was doing most of the stuff he said already but its comforting to know that its going as good as can be expected.

He encourages the WW to challenge him. So im currently dropping carrots (meeting needs) and hoping for comments like "where was this guy 7 years ago".

He stresses the importance of a plan and not running around spending energy without purpose.

I feel I have a solid plan now.

Currently Im trying to show her that there is a better way to live than in the misrable limbo we are now. Im to encourage educating ourselves to find out this plan. The key is to get her curious about the steps we can do to save our M. From there I direct her to SH and he sells her the plan.

So my review of the services are an A+.

I know I got a long way to go but there is progress.

As far as the WW we have spent the last few nights together. since the weekend she hasnt allowed me to touch her or anything like that but thats to be expected. Its frustrating but to be expected.

We got into a religous debate. She basically said I did my homework and backed off. Said she disagreed with my interpretation but didnt want to be in a theological debate. More like she knew her position was untenable and backed off.

Also kinda manhandled her a bit (not physically). Told her I wouldnt be intimidated by her anymore. That she could be upset all she wanted but I would still take care of her.

Also told her that although I have the RIGHT to divorce her I CHOOSE to stay with her through bad times. I told her I was man enough to take care of her and not shrink away. Also told her there was no expiration date on M vows.

She looked me in the eyes while I talked to her. SHe actually smiled a little. At heart she wants to be told what to do and lead out of the woods.
hurray hurray

As a PK myself, I know we can be among the most stubbon when it comes to things "religious". MrRollieEyes

She knows what's right. Definitely sending some prayers your way!!

She probably is wide-eyed (inside) watching her husband transform to the man he needs to be when it comes to handling her. Her respect level for you has probably jumped through the roof.

Good job!!!
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/27/10 10:12 PM
Glad to hear it YEG! Keep working the Plan and keep your head up. Stay consistent and watch your expectations. This may take a while.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/27/10 11:08 PM
GREAT JOB YEG. You are in control and you are doing the best things for your M. KEEP IT UP.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/28/10 02:26 AM
Update.

First of all I got word back on my STD tests. im clean.

WW really hurt me on this though. I told her while we were watching a show that I had heard back from the Dr and the results. She said said she knew I would be fine but I needed to find out for myself. She then said she was anal about that stuff. I asked what she meant. She then told me that she had made me take the test prior to us having SF 8 years ago. I then asked she made him take the tests prior to her having an A. She said he had taken a round of tests after his M ended due to an A.

I just let it drop there but it really hurt me. It almost seemed to me that she had been PLANNING to have an A. Honestly i think she was just justifying her actions to herself but the thought that it was premeditated just made me a bit sick. I held it in though. I did bring up the conversation and its not like it matters anyway how it started.

It just hurts when she talks about it so matter of fact. There was no shame in her voice. Almost like she was proud for being so responsible cheating on me.

Anyways. Its not like telling the WW that cheated on you that you didn't catch sewer slime from their disquesting roll in the cesspool is ever an easy thing.

Earlier in the night we had a bump but I recovered nicely. I was asking her about her day and her plans for tommorow. she told me she was going out. I asked with who. Really wasnt trying to dig much into it. She spouted off ina quick sentance the people she was gonna be with and the times and locations. Then she gave me a disapproving half smile.

I just told her thank you for letting me know.

Rest of the night went pretty easy though. Sat on the couch and watched a show. No contact or anything but we chatted. She really is an funny person that i just enjoy playing around with.

She still wont commit to th weekend. I want to cook dinner for her with candlelight clear the table, sit in frion of her an sing More that Words,

Its hookey but it like to sing it for her, When that bombs Im going to cook her some asian inspired meal

Hopeflly she will love it. Im about to buy a great necklash taht monnny has been wantings.

Also looing for cruising, time ti get away,.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/28/10 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Update.

First of all I got word back on my STD tests. im clean.

WW really hurt me on this though. I told her while we were watching a show that I had heard back from the Dr and the results. She said said she knew I would be fine but I needed to find out for myself. She then said she was anal about that stuff. I asked what she meant. She then told me that she had made me take the test prior to us having SF 8 years ago. I then asked she made him take the tests prior to her having an A. She said he had taken a round of tests after his M ended due to an A.

I just let it drop there but it really hurt me. It almost seemed to me that she had been PLANNING to have an A. Honestly i think she was just justifying her actions to herself but the thought that it was premeditated just made me a bit sick. I held it in though. I did bring up the conversation and its not like it matters anyway how it started.

It just hurts when she talks about it so matter of fact. There was no shame in her voice. Almost like she was proud for being so responsible cheating on me.

Anyways. Its not like telling the WW that cheated on you that you didn't catch sewer slime from their disquesting roll in the cesspool is ever an easy thing.

Earlier in the night we had a bump but I recovered nicely. I was asking her about her day and her plans for tommorow. she told me she was going out. I asked with who. Really wasnt trying to dig much into it. She spouted off ina quick sentance the people she was gonna be with and the times and locations. Then she gave me a disapproving half smile.

I just told her thank you for letting me know.

Rest of the night went pretty easy though. Sat on the couch and watched a show. No contact or anything but we chatted. She really is an funny person that i just enjoy playing around with.

She still wont commit to th weekend. I want to cook dinner for her with candlelight clear the table, sit in frion of her an sing More that Words,

Its hookey but it like to sing it for her, When that bombs Im going to cook her some asian inspired meal

Hopeflly she will love it. Im about to buy a great necklash taht monnny has been wantings.

Also looing for cruising, time ti get away,.

Have you already taken your Ambien for the night? laugh

Keep up the good work.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/28/10 02:43 AM
You are doing great YEG. Keep your expectations in check. She did justify her actions to herself. They all do. They HAVE to, in order to carry it out. Sounds like you are doing an awesome Plan A. Keep it up.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/28/10 03:09 AM
"She then told me that she had made me take the test prior to us having SF 8 years ago. I then asked she made him take the tests prior to her having an A. She said he had taken a round of tests after his M ended due to an A."

Ask WW if she got to see the results of the STD tests. Also ask if WW was the only SF partner for the OM after he took his tests. And how WW knew what the OM said was true.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/28/10 10:55 AM
Quote
Have you already taken your Ambien for the night? laugh

Yea its pretty obvious when I do that. Its funny rereading the post and you can see it degrade as I go on. Sad thing is the only reason I still take it is because I dont dream when im on ambien. Otherwise I just had nightmares all night about the OM taking my WW and child.

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Ask WW if she got to see the results of the STD tests.

Of course she didnt. I already know that. She never saw mine. In all honesty I just told her I got tested as part of annual physicals in the military. I think it was true but id pretty much had said anything back then for SF.

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Also ask if WW was the only SF partner for the OM after he took his tests.

Already know that. He was dating another girl he knew from high school and supposedly had SF within the last year. I remember her acting all jealous over it. Another sign I overlooked.

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And how WW knew what the OM said was true.
Because he told her and he would NEVER lie to her.

I know what she was saying was just justifying her conduct. "I knew I would never HURT my BH because the OM took a test." I know she just doesnt wanna believe that her actions could have hurt me. She knows how much she hurt me already and doesnt wanna think that her thoughtless actions could have permanently scar me.

I know its just babble. I expect it at this point but it still hurts me when I hear it.

BTW her parents are pushing her to take a round of STD checks. It will be a term of reconciliation in the future from me as well.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/29/10 12:36 AM
Another hoo hum night.

WW was in full force today. I got home and she was just kinda ignoring me. I tried to spark up a conversation but she just kinda blew me off. She did agree to let me take her and DD4 out to dinner. We had a decent time though she fakes happiness when she is around DD4. I think she might just have to get lubed up for conversation. usually after about an hour or so of me being home she will warm up a bit. Especially if I sucker her in with a subject we have a common interest in.

After we got back she stayed for a bit then left. She went to her parents house to spend the weekend. Ive been trying to get her to commit to dinner on saturday but she keeps saying I dont know like she has other plans. I tried to ask what they were but she wasnt giving me anything. She knows im watching and even when im just asking about her plans trying to spark a conversation she takes it as me snooping.

For example i asked her if she had big plans tonight. her answer was she was going to her parents house and would take her 5 minutes to get there. She invited me to call and check out her story.

i walked her out and told her she didnt hae to stay away this weekend. That she could stay with me. She just said "im going".

At that point I just walked back in the house so i wouldnt cry in front of her.

Even after all this crap I still am waiting for an ahh ha moment that i know will never come. Just waiting for her to click and realize what she has right here. it happened before when we were dating but I know it doesnt work that way.

My taker is just screaming for her touch. I just want her to hold my hand or give me some sort of sign. She is purposely holding back this weekend. I think she wants alone time to work through this in her head and she knows that I want to spend time with her. That or she is testing my resolve.

Steve Harley told me in the session that she is frozen. he said some people are terribly afraid of regrets. So they agonize over every decision and prolong it as long as possible. The cure he said was education. Leading her to buying into the "ideal scenario". That being a place that she is truelly in love with the father of her child and happy. Hopefully she will consider letting me make an appointment for her with Steve H.

I think I made the right decision calling off the D. I think WW wanted ME to D her. Do the dirty work for her. It would be a way she could justify D to herself. She could always say that she was doing it to make me happy and give herself the high moral ground. I think she is in a way trying to push me away from her with her actions as well. Testing me so to speak.

Im up to the challenge though. My DW may be gone but so is the WW's doormat spouse. She is really attracted when i bully her. She likes me saying no to her. She will say she will pay for something but backs off once I do it. Doesnt even really put up a fight anymore.

We did have a pretty good time shopping. Were looking at clothes for DD4. While she avoids having a relations with me ATM she definatly not troubled with having a relationship with my friends mastercard and visa.

I did by her a present today. Bought her a venetian glass necklace and matching earrings from the jewelry store. I knew she was going to stay at her parents so i actually left the necklace and a "thinking of you" card on her bed there. i called it a pre-anniversary gift. Our real anniversary is next month so I will give her the matching earrings then.

Also brought up the idea of a cruise together later in the year. She has ALWAYS wanted to go on a European cruise. Sent her the dates and details. She seemed intrigued by it. Of course no commitment but she is a needs freak and im sure the wheels are turning.

She is noticing the stuff im doing for her. She tells me thank you. Small victory but I gotta take what I get.

Saw my local personal therapist today. Told him about seeing Steve H. for marriage coaching and shared with him my plan. He said it was well organized and seemed impressed with my resolve not to take the easy way out. he asked me a couple of what if questions. Like what if the WW makes contact with the OM. in the end he knows im stuck in a holding pattern till the WW "thaws out" and makes a decision.

Im still confident that she will choose our M. The other option is just not that appealing. So much pressure from her side of the family and church not to D. She doesnt have the money to D me. Especially when I told her I would contest it and go bankrupt before I gave up. I think she will try to freeze me for a few more weeks then begrudgingly agree to recommit to the M. She will probably try to turn the tables on me but im not gonna bite. I have control and she recommits on MY terms.

Alright some questions-

Anyone have some counters for when I ask her her plans and she takes it as snooping? I've been just politely saying thank you and I appreciate her telling me. Thought someone else might have something better.


Originally Posted by YEG
Anyone have some counters for when I ask her her plans and she takes it as snooping? I've been just politely saying thank you and I appreciate her telling me. Thought someone else might have something better.

This is easy: Don't.

Become friendly, but no more. Don't ask her what she's doing, or where she is going.

You're too available. Be less so. Here's the 180. It's a good guide:

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."
back to top


Disclaimer: The 180 is not an MB concept. But many BS have used it and liked it. I noticed immediate results (though I didn't have the strength and confidence to fight divorce).

But I implemented the 180 and saw an immediate reaction. Here's the text from another post:

Fundamentally, it is all about personal empowerment and rebuilding your self esteem. It is not about manipulating your spouse and when this is not understood it interferes with the results. The goal of the 180 is to become the type of person that you want to be. Here's what I understand to be the fundamental basis for it:

1) Master your thoughts.

Ultimately, you determine what thoughts you give attention to and those thoughts will set into motion the dynamics that will affect you. If you tend to focus on the negative you increase the probability that you will become your own worst enemy. It is important to realise how your thoughts create your expectations of the future. By increasing your positive focus you will increase the chances of bringing in positive energy to your life. This does not mean that youļæ½re being unrealistic or naive. It simply means that you are choosing to focus your thoughts and energy on success instead of failure and on the good parts of your life instead of the bad. You want to cultivate the thoughts that you want to have through positive affirmation.

2) Adjust your attitude.

Our attitudes determine our thoughts which translate into intentions which leads to actions. We can be very realistic about the challenges we face, but still form the inner resolve to focus on our belief that we can overcome obstacles and bounce back from adversity. To do so takes belief and patience with ourselves, sustained motivation and energy, accepting our personal responsibility, and willingness to perservere. If your attitude is peaceful and positive then you are in the best position to have the focus and energy available to find solutions. Grace under pressure displays your courage and fortitude even when you are fearful and anxious.

3) Practice acceptance.

Acceptance is something to do for yourself when you are ready to let go of the anger. When we can't accept the situation, we have less energy to spend on the present because we are holding on to bitterness about the past. Acceptance does not mean condoning what has been done or passively enduring mistreatment. It means that you are ready to move forward unencumbered by bitterness or anger.

4) Look for the lesson.

Experiences can lead us to new growth, understanding, and maturity. It is important for us to examine and redefine these experiences to be able to discover and access our hidden strengths and resources that we didn't know we have and learn about ourselves.

5) Continue to nurture yourself.

Make a commitment to continue to nurture yourself so that your energy and vitality will remain high. You are not being selfish to honour your needs, but are providing new growth and fresh perspective.

6) Examine your character.

As humans we all have strengths and weaknesses. It is important to be able to do an honest self appraisal so that we can be real about ourselves. We are all responsible for our character, qualities, and actions and for the effects that they have. As conscious beings, we are also able to acquire those qualities that we desire and it is up to us to use them beneficiently.

So there you have it. My personal understanding of the conceptual basis of the 180. The above represents a strategy to take with our lives, and the 180 list provides us with the tactics. Keep the strategy and end goal in mind at all times and alter the tactics as necessary.
In the end, it's all behavior intended to get you to move to a healthier place. Right now she sees you as a lost puppy dog.

You want her to see you as a man.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/29/10 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
In the end, it's all behavior intended to get you to move to a healthier place. Right now she sees you as a lost puppy dog.

You want her to see you as a man.

I understand what your saying. Im trying to look strong even though i feel weak. I feel like a lost puppy dog.

I will incorporate some of the ideas though. I need to stop sweating her time on the computer and stuff. Need to stop sweating if she goes to her parents. not like she is meeting OM there.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/30/10 03:04 AM
Positive night. Its all relative I guess.

WW has been sleeping at her parents lately. The whole I need space to think stuff. Bleh. I did get to spend the day with DD4. We had a pretty good day though WW was off being introspective.

DD4 kept asked where mommy was. i told her mommy didnt want to stay with daddy right now. She thinks Mommy is just sad. From the mouth of babes. DD4 wanted to talk to her so I let her dial WW, MIL and Fil looking for them. Non answered so she left some pretty sad messages begging for mommy to come home. Don't like seeing my daughter suffer but WW needs to hear those calls.

I didnt call her all day. WW called looking to talk to DD4 which I just let her have the phone. I invited her to dinner which WW was noncommital about.

Glad she did because I had shopped all day to set up dinner. Candles, dessert and made one of her fav dishes. Finally WW called saying she would be there in a half an hour.

DD4 ended up staying so WW could see her. Derailed the romantic dinner plans I had but it was still pretty productive.

When DD4 had to go potty she told me she had gotten the present I had left for her at her parents house. She wasnt wearing it but she is going to wear it tommorow for church. I spent to much on it which she commented on. She also made the comment that she feels im trying to buy her back. I didnt admit to it but she isnt totally off base. She likes expensive things and loves jewelry though so its not like she is turning it away.

That led into a discussion about change. I talked about the belief system change Im undergoing. Told her that change without a belief system is temparary while this is not. She said she has noticed the difference. About that time DD4 came back and ended that conversation before i got to deep.

During dinner we got into the subject of our prior vacations together. We were reminiscing about a painting we bought in the room on that cruise. She said that was a great trip. I agreed with her. She also said that it felt like a lifetime ago. Cant argue with her there. I pointed out I think we have another great cruise in us. She didnt comment about that. I have planted the seed of going on her dream cruise later in the year. Just sent her some info on it and the days I can take off of work that match up with it in an email the other day. Its another carrot that she might take a bite out of.

I brought up some pictures we took on a past cruise. It was the first time we had SF. She commented that was the cruise that started it all. WW also said that felt like 2 lifetimes ago.

Rest of dinner went well. WW and DD4 got in a pie in the face contest. It was a genuine momment that we all shared. All i could think about though was how much id love to just kiss her with her face all covered in pie. I dont know if she read my mind or if I gave it away with the body language because she backed off a bit. At least I didnt make a move on her.

DD4 went to bed and we watched some shows together. It was one of WW favorite shows that I recently started watching. Kinda exploited the Rec companionship thing I little but I genuinely like it. She ended up staying 2 hrs.

After the first show I made her stop it. Told her I wanted to give her the other present. She tried to tell me I didnt need to do it. I just made her pause the show. Thats when i sang her the song that i had been practicing. Couldnt look at her when i sang it but singing was always a turn on for her. She thanked me for the song and I apologized for not remembering all the words. After that i just got back on the couch and we watched the next show. Didnt push my luck any.

When the show was over I knew she was leaving so i went in the kitchen to do dishes. Small victory for me because usually I aske her to stay and not leave. This time I just let her go upstairs and get her stuff. She told me she was going like she was just running to the store. I said ok and just walked her out to the car. She sat down and I closed her door for her and waved goodbye. No pathetic scene at the car this time. Im making small progress on the me front. I just turned and went back inside so if I was gonna lose it she couldnt see.

Overall a good night i guess. I kept my taker at bay and she left on a good note.

FIL called me earlier in the day as well. He is a very good ally and we talked about my frustration. He is frustrated too especially at the way its starting to affect DD4. He was hoping that WW would confide in her Mother today. Thats who she was spending the day with. My FIL is getting pretty upset at the fence sitting. He is tired of this limbo too. Probably shouldnt get him so involved in the process (oops almost said recovery. wishful thinking). He is a sympathetic ear who WANTS me to stay with his daughter and I dont have many of those.

Pretty solid plan A today though. I screwed up on a couple of spots but overall a good effort. Just wish that cured the pain i am feeling in my gut. My broken heart just hurts but writing about it helps.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/30/10 04:10 AM
That sounds positive YEG. I wonder if the presents and singing to her may be a bit over the top at this point? You know your wife better than anyone, but it seems almost a bit desparate. You may want to show her that you are going to be OK without her too.

I would tone it down a little bit. Just my opinion and overall, if it made you feel good to do it than so be it. I think bringing out the pics from the previous cruise was good. It's good to have her remember better times.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/30/10 12:32 PM
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I wonder if the presents and singing to her may be a bit over the top at this point?

Expensive Presents are. Im learning from that though. That one was something DD4 really wanted to give her for mothers day and i didnt wanna drop the $$$ on it 7 days after D-Day when OM smell was almost still on her. Its was a 1 of a kind and I didnt want someone else to buy it. Should have held it off till our real anniversary next month though.

Wasnt a total negative though since one of the big differences between me and OM was the fact her always forgot her birthday and was cheap. Im sure the connection was lost though since she is still in the revisionist history phase.

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You may want to show her that you are going to be OK without her too.
I did focus some on this as well. Like the 180 stuff. In the past I said the changes I made were for her. Now I focus on them being for me and how they will help me in future relationships.

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if it made you feel good to do it than so be it.

Good is relative. Its about long term gain. If I tell her i love her and I cant live without her that makes me feel better short term. Long term its a negative though since it makes me look weak and begging.

Overall I think im running a solid plan A. 1 key is learning from every interaction though. Im trying to do that.

Im also feeling pressure to make up for everything RIGHT NOW. I need to just calm down and let the Holy Spirit do his work. I really think God is working in my M. I just need to stop mucking it up with unwise attempts.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/31/10 03:45 AM
NEW DILEMMA

Decent day starting off. WW stayed night with parents. Nothing new there. She is basically leaving our house at 10 or 11 each night and just sleeping at her parents house. Dont like it but cant control it.

We met at church. Had a good sunday school. Subject was fervent righteous prayer. She also caught me praying when she came to church. All good things. Had the usual after church meal. Surprisingly she wanted to ride home with me. Also afterwards I asked her where she wanted to go. She said since you asked Id love to have a cup of coffee. I gladly took her to Starbucks and we walked around a bit.

Fast forward a bit. Im at home and I receive a text from her. Apparently one of DD4 favorite characters is comeing to an amusement park in WW college town next weekend. I reply back do you want me to get tickets. She says we will talk about it.

We talk later and she wants to go. We had already talked about going out of town this weekend. Here is the catch. Her college town is where she and the OM were visiting when I discovered the A a month ago. Its where she called me with him in the car and lied to me. Its the last place WW and the OM had SF.

Naturally that town is LOADED with triggers. From the PI calling me constantly, searching every motel room in town to the motel she actually stayed with him at.

Its also one of her favorite places in the world.

Ive decided if she is willing to go with me I will go with her. If we are to make a M of it eventually I will have to go back. Its also a very good opportunity to fill the Love bank. Travel is WW FAVORITE thing. Its a HUGE recreational interest of hers. DD will also be there so that will cut off any relationship talk. The draw of maybe even curling up with her at night is a huge incintive. If nothing else it will be the first time I have slept in the same room as her in months.

I always knew id have to revisit that place. I just always thought id have more time and maybe a re commitment to the M first. D-Day + 1 month is awfully soon.

Any thoughts on revisiting the Discovery Day location?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/31/10 04:08 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
NEW DILEMMA

Any thoughts on revisiting the Discovery Day location?

Has your WW wanted to do anything like this before? Would you consider taking DD by yourself? The reason I ask this is because your posts appear to be auditioning for her - the gifts, the singing, the dinner - now going to an Amusement Park for DD. It sounds fake to me - unless you've always done this sort of thing. If you have that's one thing. If not, your WW may see this as manipulative. I know I would.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/31/10 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
NEW DILEMMA

Decent day starting off. WW stayed night with parents. Nothing new there. She is basically leaving our house at 10 or 11 each night and just sleeping at her parents house. Dont like it but cant control it.

We met at church. Had a good sunday school. Subject was fervent righteous prayer. She also caught me praying when she came to church. All good things. Had the usual after church meal. Surprisingly she wanted to ride home with me. Also afterwards I asked her where she wanted to go. She said since you asked Id love to have a cup of coffee. I gladly took her to Starbucks and we walked around a bit.

Fast forward a bit. Im at home and I receive a text from her. Apparently one of DD4 favorite characters is comeing to an amusement park in WW college town next weekend. I reply back do you want me to get tickets. She says we will talk about it.

We talk later and she wants to go. We had already talked about going out of town this weekend. Here is the catch. Her college town is where she and the OM were visiting when I discovered the A a month ago. Its where she called me with him in the car and lied to me. Its the last place WW and the OM had SF.

Naturally that town is LOADED with triggers. From the PI calling me constantly, searching every motel room in town to the motel she actually stayed with him at.

Its also one of her favorite places in the world.

Ive decided if she is willing to go with me I will go with her. If we are to make a M of it eventually I will have to go back. Its also a very good opportunity to fill the Love bank. Travel is WW FAVORITE thing. Its a HUGE recreational interest of hers. DD will also be there so that will cut off any relationship talk. The draw of maybe even curling up with her at night is a huge incintive. If nothing else it will be the first time I have slept in the same room as her in months.

I always knew id have to revisit that place. I just always thought id have more time and maybe a re commitment to the M first. D-Day + 1 month is awfully soon.

Any thoughts on revisiting the Discovery Day location?

If you can handle it without lovebusting, then do it. If you have any anti-depressants/anxiety medication, you might want to make sure you are on it.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/31/10 12:20 PM
You going with WW and DD is different then WW and DD going without you.

Go for it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 05/31/10 12:59 PM
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Has your WW wanted to do anything like this before? Would you consider taking DD by yourself? T

Her college town has always been a favorite place of hers. We have been dozens of times together. Even to the amusement park with DD4. We have been on several trips since D-Day and she has enjoyed them all.

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The reason I ask this is because your posts appear to be auditioning for her - the gifts, the singing, the dinner - now going to an Amusement Park for DD.

Gifts are too much. Im toning those down.

Dinner was actually part of the love dare. I have cooked like this in the past so Its more a way of showing her the person that she has lived with for the last 2 years is gone.

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The reason I ask this is because your posts appear to be auditioning for her

Cant help but agree with you. In a way i am auditioning for her. Im also trying to show her the positive changes ive made in my life. Its a fine line that I know I cross.

I m very aware of the manipulative aspect of things. I am trying to counter that back cutting relationship talk, not following her around the house and stop trying to paw her every time we have a tender moment (keeping my taker on lockdown). VERY difficult task.

I am seeing some feedback though. She talked to her mom about the A and returning to the M a bit the other day. So she is reaching out a bit. The talk of "its too late. Not sure we can make it" has been notably absent. She has been coming around the house and even asking me to do things with her. Time is working its magic.

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If you can handle it without lovebusting, then do it. If you have any anti-depressants/anxiety medication, you might want to make sure you are on it.

I can do that. I have been able to control LB quite easily. She hasnt really baited me into any fights. The pawing is the hardest thing to stop but Ive done that ok the last few days.

Upped my dosage of ADs. I got plenty so that will be no problem.

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Go for it.

I will if she wants to go. Issue is she may have plans with her Mother that day that she already committed too. I'll just see how it plays out. Honestly Im just going to go and have a good time with the DD4. I'll focus my attention there. If WW wants me to meet a need (although just going is a huge one) I will do that.

Any more thoughts suggestion on revisiting the last place WW and OM were together? The D-Day Location?

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/01/10 02:40 PM
Bump for some more feedback.

Relatively good weekend. Spent a lot of good time together and avoided most R discussion. WW is now talking with her Mother about the M. Mother wont tell me the contents of the discussion though. She is a good women so I hope she is guiding her well.

My FIL and I had a good discussion. Mostly it was on patience and letting her come to her decision. I again stressed my desire to do what it takes for my M and focused on the future. Not the past. He also encouraged me to join WW this weekend at WW college town.

Pretty much in a holding pattern still. She is letting me spend alot of time with her. She did try to bait me into a small fight yesterday but I didnt bite. She calmed down pretty quick. She was having dizzy spells should I supported her as best I could. WW cooked a decent dinner that the family enjoyed.

No contact with the OM since May 10th. That was the only call and text since D Day weekend as well. Exposure looks like its been effective.

At the moment all indications are positive. She has acknowledged regret for her A. We have both apologized for our past mistakes. She is also been receptive to the changes I have made in my life. She has said things have been good since D Day. She is still waiting for me to revert to old habits though.

Any more thoughts suggestion on revisiting the last place WW and OM were together? The D-Day Location?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/01/10 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Any more thoughts suggestion on revisiting the last place WW and OM were together? The D-Day Location?

Yeah, quit dwelling on it.

It's not like that was the only reason she went to that city or why she is going back. Sure, you probably don't want to stay at the same hotel, but other than that, calm down and try to have some fun. Give yourself another couple months to fill up her lovebank, and she'll commit to the marriage. It's not like she has been trying to divorce you. She has shown zero inclination to leave the marriage. Just keep meeting her needs, and eventually she'll slowly start meeting yours again.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/01/10 04:54 PM
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Yeah, quit dwelling on it.

It's not like that was the only reason she went to that city or why she is going back.

I will. Im just going to go and have fun if she wants to go. Spend a lovely day with my WW and DD4.

I just feel I have to script out every interaction still. Its tough. The not pressuring and biding my time is just not something I do well. I'm a "here is the problem, here is the solution" type. She is a over analyze type of person. I'm being patient with her and doing the right things in the house.

Since Im getting no feedback from WW on what Im doing just getting it from here instead. I know im doing the right things. Just desperate for reassurance since the stakes are so high and the turmoil my life is in sucks so much.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/01/10 05:04 PM
Has she filled out the ENs and LB questionnaires? I would get her to do so. Let her know you it doesn't mean that she has to commit to the marriage yet, but it will give you a good roadmap as to how to fill up her love bank and get her re-engaged. We can help you brainstorm ideas on how to meet her needs as well instead of just flinging stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks. No pressure, just give them to her and let her know she can fill them out at her convenience.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/01/10 05:32 PM
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Has she filled out the ENs and LB questionnaires? I would get her to do so.

No I gave her SAA though. She also has Steve Harley's office number and a prepaid appointment that she just needs to set up a time.

I told her that appointment is just for information and no commitment. I think its much more likely she will talk to him than fill out a questionnaire. Ill get TONS more mileage out of WW talking to Steve as well.

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We can help you brainstorm ideas on how to meet her needs as well instead of just flinging stuff against the wall and hoping it sticks.

ill fill one out for her and post the results.

From my appointments I know Steve has them fill out a Love bank inventory for the appointments. Though I dont think he shares them yet.

I know how "frozen" my wife is ATM. She is basically trying to avoid tipping her hand in any direction till she has made up her mind on recommitting to the M. She told me that she doesnt want to complicate things by moving back prematurely. So the odds of her filling out the forms are near nil ATM.

Sadly Im just in a holding pattern till she makes up her mind. It blows but its where I am. looking at alot of others threads i realize how good I have it atm. Ive already seen gains and its only D-Day + 1 month (happy 1 month anniversary!).

I have been reading poor BT's thread. When the 28th came up and and he found proof my heart was beating a million times a minute for him. I KNOW that hurt and I almost started crying for him in the middle of class.
Expect no reassurance from her. Expect little to nothing from her.

You want results? Dial it back. Youļæ½re doing too much and are likely smothering her. Read the 180 again.

As far as going back to the college town, look at it as a way to reclaim your marriage and give her new memories of the place.

If you canļæ½t handle the triggers, however, then decline the trip and go elsewhere.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/01/10 05:53 PM
Quote
You want results? Dial it back. Youļæ½re doing too much and are likely smothering her. Read the 180 again.

I have been doing too much. She knows how I feel. She sees me filling her ENs. Being pathetic is not attractive.

I'm going for the quiet, confident strength angle. When she reaches out for me Im there but otherwise im giving her the space she desires.

Im needy on here mainly because I have to get it out of my system here since I CANT do that at home. I am becoming a better person for me. The next person that loves me will benefit from those changes. I want it to be my WW but I understand It will take a while.
Try the 180 for a few days. Seriously, it gets results.

She likes the attention you give her, she just doesn't want so much of it.

She'll also be a lot more attracted to you if you seem to have a life outside of her.

Think of what it was like when you were dating. How attrated were you to a woman that called you 24/7 and wanted to do everything with you and gave you no space?

I know it's easier said than done. I was as desperate as you are. I saw results with the 180, which isn't Plan "Be an A hole". It really is about restoring confidence in yourself, being cool, and becoming James Bond: A cool guy who is attractive.

She doesn't want to do something? Ok. Head out with DD4 on your own. She can come along if she wishes.

Want to go out for the night and she doesn't? Go out. Meet up with a guy friend for a beer. Invite her and tell her where you'll be.

Want to go on a bike ride and she doesn't? Go.

Get the picture? Don't base your actions on her. Base them on what you want to do. Lead and she will follow. It might take her a bit, but she'll eventually follow.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/01/10 06:52 PM
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How attrated were you to a woman that called you 24/7 and wanted to do everything with you and gave you no space?

So true. It wasnt till I stopped mooning over her and starting dating another girl till she wanted a committed relationship. We were married a year later.

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She'll also be a lot more attracted to you if you seem to have a life outside of her.

I am running and doing stuff out of the house now. I go shopping. Im buying a new slimmer wardrobe. Ive already lost 15 pounds and 2 inches off my waist on the weight watchers/ infidelity diet.

I do ask her if she needs stuff though but I dont freak if she doesnt want it. I am trying to hone in my lvl of care. I dont want to go to a ignore her and be rude to her plan though since I want to meet her ENs.

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It really is about restoring confidence in yourself, being cool, and becoming James Bond: A cool guy who is attractive.

Im trying for that. Im a work in progress.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/02/10 02:22 AM
Trip to my WW's college town is a go this weekend. With or without her.

Told her I was taking DD4 up there because she will enjoy it. WW said she would go for our daughter. Not sure if she plans to stay in the same room, get her own hotel room or just drive up the same day. i know she is willing to do that since she drove the 7 hr round trip twice in 48 hrs to roll in the gutter with the OM.

Regardless its a good chance to show im not afraid of the place. It also travel and thats WWs favorite thing. She has perked up on all of the day trips so far. Im looking forward to doing the amusement park with DD4 and hopefully filling the wifes love bank some more.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/02/10 12:24 PM
Quick question

The wife has been making comments like, "Ive got to learn to do this on my own." Kinda referring to life without me.

Should I read anything into it?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/02/10 12:33 PM
I thought WW wanted you to go with her to college town with DD, now she doesn't?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/02/10 02:22 PM
WW is going with me. Thats still on.

Its more just a separate issue. She is deathly afraid of bugs. usually she runs and gets me. Last night she insisted on killing it and disposing of it. When asked WW said. "I have to start to learn to handle these things on my own"

She has been insisting on dealing with DD4 by herself.

These are really the ONLY negative signs. She has been open to me spending time with her and doing trips together. This weekend she may even sleep in the same room. We will see on that.

Just not sure if I need to be worried. Not much I can do anyways.
Posted By: Mememe Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/02/10 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Not much I can do anyways.


Exactly, you can only control your actions. Focus on you and DD, you will drive yourself nuts if you try to work out what everything she says and does means.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 01:19 AM
Bad night.

Not terribly bad but i didnt play it well. been depressed all day. Didn't do well at a test at work but im getting used to that. Havent been able to study really since D Day.

Its also the 1 month anniversary of me confronting my WW.

I missed my DW so much today. I came home kinda down and the 180 feel apart.

Time I saw her I asked for a hug which she gave. She held me for like a minute and asked whats wrong. Just told her im having a rough day.

I brought them pizza and went running with DD4. My WW wasnt feeling well so went to bed. I asked her if she could talk to me for a minute. I wanted to go through Steve harley's script again and see if she would committ to an appointment next week. She said she would talk but didnt want to because she was feeling poorly. I just dropped it then since I could tell she wasnt up to it.

before i left her I gave her a hug. While she didnt hug me back (She was holding a book) she didnt stop me. She also allowed me to kiss her on the forehead a couple of times.

I asked her for a kiss (yea I know I was being needy) and she politely declined. I knew she would but I just had to ask.

At that point I got some composure and left the room before I did something stupider.

Overall she didnt act upset by it. I just looked kinda pathetic and needy. I'll bounce back though tommorow. Looking forward to this weekend and maybe getting to stay the night in the same room as her. I miss her so much.


Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 12:58 PM
Bumping. The one month anniversary of Mr Toads wild ride (PI chasing her across 2 states) has got me down.

Just need some motivation.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Bumping. The one month anniversary of Mr Toads wild ride (PI chasing her across 2 states) has got me down.

Just need some motivation.

Just ensure there is NC between WW and OM and keep up your plan A, and I promise things will be better in a couple months.

It sounds like you need a vacation. When you get down, start researching and planning your next vacation. Where do you want to go? I'm heading to Ireland next Wednesday for 9 days. Whenever I get down or stressed, I just do a little more research on things I should see when I am over there. Back when I was starting recover, I was planning a trip to the Pacific Northwest. We spent a week going through Portland, Columbia River Gorge, Columbia Valley wine country, and Seattle. In about another month when she's a little less wayward, maybe you can start planning a trip with her. Planning a trip is fun and meets ENs.

Where would you like to go?

I can tell you, for the money, I don't think you can beat Mexico. I went to the Riviera Maya last fall for a weak and it was awesome and relaxing. I just looked it up. If you can get your ILs to watch the kid for a week, you can get 8 days/7 nights all inclusive at a nice resort (we stayed at the Iberostar Tucan and I would recommend it) for under $2000 total (in October, which probably would be the best month to go). You can't get airfare and a hotel for a week anywhere else that cheap, and then all your meals are included as well. I'm spending $2000 just in airfare to Ireland. Luckily, the best man in my wedding got transfered there for 6 months and we have free lodging.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 03:40 PM
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It sounds like you need a vacation. When you get down, start researching and planning your next vacation.

Good idea.

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Where do you want to go? I'm heading to Ireland next Wednesday for 9 days. Whenever I get down or stressed, I just do a little more research on things I should see when I am over there.
Ive floated the idea of a European cruise to the WW. She wants to go im sure but wont commit till she recommits to the M.

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In about another month when she's a little less wayward, maybe you can start planning a trip with her. Planning a trip is fun and meets ENs.

She will be all about this. Im planning the trip mid august. Hopefully that will be enough time for her to defog enough.

This is her dream vacation that she always asked for and I never wanted to go. She is starting to get over stuff like that.

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I can tell you, for the money, I don't think you can beat Mexico. I went to the Riviera Maya last fall for a weak and it was awesome and relaxing. I just looked it up. If you can get your ILs to watch the kid for a week, you can get 8 days/7 nights all inclusive at a nice resort (we stayed at the Iberostar Tucan and I would recommend it) for under $2000 total (in October, which probably would be the best month to go)

The European cruise is like 900 a person. Gotta pay for airfare there though so its gonna be pricey as well. The dates of the cruise just fit so well into my work schedule.

Great idea though. Ill start looking at excursions and locations and sending her the brochures on it. That way she can see im serious and she will get more and more curious.
When you're needy, you turn her off. Keep that in mind when you find yourself in that place.

Find a way to detatch emotionally. It's tough, but you have to find a way to do it.

I've lived what you're going through. It's like a thirsty man hoping for a drop of water.

Whatever she gives you will be out of pity. Keep that in mind.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 05:34 PM
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Whatever she gives you will be out of pity. Keep that in mind.

So true.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 07:12 PM
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I asked her for a kiss (yea I know I was being needy) and she politely declined. I knew she would but I just had to ask.

Remember one thing:

You will not be sad anymore after two years.
If she is truly NC she will not miss OM at some point.

There is hope.

This sadness does not last forever.
She will not be attached to OM forever.

Hermetic NC is key to your success.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 07:48 PM
Quote
You will not be sad anymore after two years.
If she is truly NC she will not miss OM at some point.

Here is her deal with going NC. She wanted to move back in the house. She didnt want to recommit to the M yet (still hasn't). I said OK but I would NOT tolerate her contacting the OM in anyway.

She agreed to those terms. She KNOWS im watching the house phone and her cell phone. Im also monitoring her car and computer without her knowledge.

I have only seen 1 incident of her doing anything close to inappropriate. She went to the OMs facebook page and read the comments. Didnt even look at the pictures. It showed her there 2 minutes. She did not send him any messages.

OM hasnt attempted to contact my WW. He knows im watching and I can push even harder at his job.

As always though I cant monitor every route of contact. The search for A phones yielded nothing. So right now she is maintaining NC, I just would feel more comfortable if she would talk to Steve Harley.

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There is hope.

I know I need patience, time and consistency. An empty promise of recommitting to the M isnt what I want. I think she knows that and that is why she is holding off. She has had moments of clarity. She is acting more and more human.

Maybe alot of this melancholy is just a hangover effect from the last 2 horrible years. It was just so bad for so long. Now I know the problem and I just want to FIX it. I know its a long process by now. Just kinda wish she would throw me a bone every once and a while.

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This sadness does not last forever.
She will not be attached to OM forever.

I know it wont. I just hope she just decides she wants to put in the work and rebuild instead of just tapping out of the M and starting over. I know its unlikely and I shouldn't feel that way. I just worry.

Sad thing is I KNOW all the answers to this crap. I KNOW what id post to someone else that was dealing with this. Its just seeing the long term solution and not acting on short term gains.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 08:28 PM
You have a keylogger. Block OM's facebook page. Even pseudo-contact like that can set back withdrawal. It's like an alcoholic drinking nyquil or listerine because it's the best thing they've got.

IF this continues AND you continue to make love bank deposits, you will see some progress in a month or two.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 08:43 PM
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Block OM's facebook page

Hmm not a bad idea. I thought about logging onto her Facebook and defriending him. See if she sent him a new facebook friend request. Kinda like a little test.

I dont wanna give away the KL though. So ill just block the myspace page with my router.

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IF this continues AND you continue to make love bank deposits, you will see some progress in a month or two.

I know. It just seems SO LONG. I know in the grand scheme its not though.

My lawyer is gonna be calling me tomorrow. Gonna have to hear an earful about pulling the plug on the divorce. She thinks im crazy to let her off the hook without WW making serious improvements first.

Im doing the right thing though. I wanna treat my WW with love and respect. Not threaten her with the hammer of divorce.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
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Block OM's facebook page
My lawyer is gonna be calling me tomorrow. Gonna have to hear an earful about pulling the plug on the divorce. She thinks im crazy to let her off the hook without WW making serious improvements first.

Is she your lawyer or your mom? Seriously? She seems to be a little too personally attached to this.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/03/10 09:02 PM
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Is she your lawyer or your mom? Seriously? She seems to be a little too personally attached to this.

She is concerned because the lawyer has seen this path before. She says typically it will last about 6 months then the guy is back in her office again having to hire another PI to prove an affair.

The lawyer wants to give good council I think and protect me financially. Im just not willing to divorce my wife to be 100% safe then try to date her again. There is no amicable divorce.

She thinks im just setting myself up for failure given the duration of the A.

In the nd its my wife and my life though. So if I want to not get divorced thats what im doing. Especially since im not putting timelines on myself.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/04/10 12:29 AM
Your doing well YEG. About the 'neediness' though, at least you now seem to recognize that you are doing it. Try to pinpoint the exact moment you lower your boundry and just before that point, go to the store for something. Anything. Just get away.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/04/10 03:01 AM
My Guilt

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Try to pinpoint the exact moment you lower your boundry and just before that point, go to the store for something. Anything. Just get away.


Been happening alot lately. I think i figured out the reason.

I feel terrible about the way I treated my WW in the past. I went on the road as a contractor when she needed me most. She has a newborn at the time, she needed me and i wasnt there for her. That was the crack that the snake snuck in.

My wife was desperate for support from anyone. I CHOOSE not to give it to her. I didn't know what i was doing then. Why couldnt i have just took the time to learn about my marriage then?

The WW and i had a long talk tonite. I asked her what she was thinking about. basically looking to direct her to Dr. Harley. She told me that she was deciding if she is willing to give it one more try. She tried before. She asked me for help SOOO many times. I ignored her pleas. Only know when I find some OM has snuck into her life do I get concerned. Only when threatened with D do I take action. I just feel VERY guilty and VERY sorry about my past actions.

She also told me that we were pretty much in the middle of our last chance. If I hadnt have already made changes in my life she would be out the door. That hurt. Its not just all wayward speak either. I ignored her for so long. I put my career and happiness ahead of hers. There is a reason I feel terrible. I should. I feel just as wayward as she does.

Dont get me wrong. She told me she is sorry for the A. She knows she did wrong. Its not like she is saying my actions justified it. She told me that I didnt cause the affair. That I didnt push her into it. She went into it on her own. That doesnt stop me for feeling like I pushed her into the arms of another man. I did in alot of ways. I ignored the warning signs. I ignored her begging for help. She didnt verbalize it but I knew my wife.

I hope I sincerely never forget this guilt though. I want to be the man she needs SO much now. I KNOW I love her. I know that I have to put effort into my M. All I want is another chance to show her.

Im about 90% sure she is going to recommit to the M at this point. She has shown zero interest in the OM since D-Day. In retrospect it almost looks like it was the rare event that the fog lifted when i exposed. She isnt judging me between him and I. She is judging me by my past action.

I know that the since she was involved in the EA/PA I didnt have a real shot. I could have stopped it way before then though. I just didnt take care of my buisiness so somoene else stepped in to take care it for me.

Im more certain than ever i need to back off some. She has asked me for space to decide I need to meet that need. She has told me that we are already in our last chance (which means she hasnt given up yet) and that she still loves me. She has basically agreed to NC. She is just wary that once she recommits ill go back to my old ways. I cant blame her.

I NEVER want to be that person again. My family needs to be the most important thing in my life. I need to put her needs ahead of mine and let her make her decision instead of constantly hounding her. Its hard enough as is.

Its probably a good thing i dont get off so easy and have to pay this penance to win her love back. Maybe ill remember this later. That way ill treasure every moment I have with her in the future instead of taking it for granted.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/04/10 03:41 AM
YEG,

I know and understand what you are talking about regarding guilt. Hindsight makes us 20/20. Regardless of how bad you were as a husband- you did not cause her to stray. She chose that path and it is NOT because you made her do it. I'm not saying you were an angel and I'm sure you have many faults pre-A.

Your WW had 3 choices when faced with your innattention.

1. Confront you and separate if you didn't change.
2. Divorce you due to your lack of giving or whatever you want to call it.
2. Maintain status quo.

Having an affair is NEVER an option in a marriage. You are not at fault for her choices. Sure, your failings as a husband probably helped to set the conditions to make an affair possible, but it was NOT the cause. At worst, you are 50% responsible for setting conditions. But that's it. Bottom line is that it was a decision your WW made herself, and she needs to reap the consequences of that decision.

Now, if and when she chooses to work towards rebuilding the marriage- that is where you continue to show your improvements and understanding of your own shortcomings and work TOGETHER to prevent those conditions from presenting themselves again.

That is my take anyway. I feel very strongly about this because I too was not the best husband to my WW. I wasn't horrible either, and I'm positive you were not either. I admittedly took her and her love for granted and I will forever be sorry for that (and I have told her this). Short of real abuse, the act of adultery is never deserved. Probably not even then. She had the right to leave you or end the marriage. She didn't have the right to bring another man into your marriage. Got it??

As Dr. H says, ALL of us are wired to have an affair. It is a choice that each wayward makes on their own however. It took me a while to get this too. In fact, early on I think I enabled her affair by taking all the blame of our problems due to my own guilt as a husband. Looking back, I now KNOW that I was a good husband. Just not as good as I should or could have been. I personally take zero percent of the blame for the affair, but I own up to 50% of our problems pre-affair. I have learned so much from MB and other sources, I could never go back to living like that again.

By the way, my MIL shared an article about the 'walkaway wife syndrome' that she found. I really think it fits my situation almost too well. I posted it on my thread, but will share it here too because I have a feeling that you may see many similarities too. If you do, maybe this might be something to share with your wife.

Either way, I'd be interested to hear what you think about it.

Walkaway Wife Syndrome
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/04/10 11:23 AM
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Hindsight makes us 20/20.

WW told me the same thing.

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Regardless of how bad you were as a husband- you did not cause her to stray. She chose that path and it is NOT because you made her do it. I'm not saying you were an angel and I'm sure you have many faults pre-A.

Honestly I dont think im responsible for her deciding to have the A. That was her decision and she told me as much. I really did set the stage for it though. The A was wrong. But its almost like a symptom of the larger underlying problem. The REAL problem was me not taking care of her and meeting her needs when I should have.

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Bottom line is that it was a decision your WW made herself, and she needs to reap the consequences of that decision.

She is facing those consequences. She knows if she walks now she walks away with little to nothing. She has no job, will be barred from alimony and likely face reduced child support due to losing her job for cause. I think these will help give me that one more chance.

I think if she recommits she will recommit completely to the process. Its literally our last shot. We both know we are teetering on the edge of D.

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She didn't have the right to bring another man into your marriage. Got it??

I understand she didnt have the right. I almost think I deserved it. It took something that hurtful and that drastic to wake me up. Even when I smelt the A going on I choose to ignore it. It wasnt till she lost her job that I snapped out of it.

I sometimes think that God was trying to wake me up for years. I just wasnt listening. Now only after she has given up and doesnt need me anymore do I make changes. My actions just make me sick. Especially since I knew I wasnt doing what she needed but was too greedy to change first. I put it all on her.

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Looking back, I now KNOW that I was a good husband.

I took care of her financially. I ignored her biggest needs though. Thats my fault. I reluctantly helped around the house some and with DD4.

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I have learned so much from MB and other sources, I could never go back to living like that again.

I wont ever do that again. I wont forget the A. I also wont forget my faults either. I want to give my wife unconditional love. Something I never did before.

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By the way, my MIL shared an article about the 'walkaway wife syndrome' that she found. I really think it fits my situation almost too well. I posted it on my thread, but will share it here too because I have a feeling that you may see many similarities too. If you do, maybe this might be something to share with your wife.

Either way, I'd be interested to hear what you think about it.

Im going to give you my take on it. I have to start class though. Ill post up later.

Thanks SOL. I appreciate you chatting with me about this stuff.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/04/10 04:47 PM
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In the early years of marriage, women are the relationship caretakers. They carefully monitor their relationships to make sure there is enough closeness and connection. If not, women will do what they can to try to fix things. If their husbands aren't responsive, women become extremely unhappy and start complaining about everything under the sun...things that need to get done around the house, responsibilities pertaining to the children, how free time is spent and so on. Unfortunately, when women complain, men generally retreat and the marriage deteriorates even more.

After years of trying unsuccessfully to improve things, a woman eventually surrenders and convinces herself that change isn't possible. She ends up believing there's absolutely nothing she can do because everything she's tried hasn't worked.

Mine didnt happen quite that way. It was a significant event (having a baby) that changed our marriage. She asked me to do stuff but I didnt. THe end result was the same though. After a couple of years of asking she checked out.

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That's when she begins to carefully map out the logistics of what she considers to be the inevitable, getting a divorce.

While she's planning her escape, she no longer tries to improve her relationship or modify her partner's behavior in any way. She resigns herself to living in silent desperation until "D Day." Unfortunately, her husband views his wife's silence as an indication that "everything is fine." After all, the "nagging" has ceased. That's why, when she finally breaks the news of the impending divorce, her shell-shocked partner replies, "I had no idea you were unhappy."

She would occasionally ask me for help. Eventually after she checked out thats when the OM checked into her life. She just did that instead of push for a divorce.

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Then, even when her husband undergoes real and lasting changes, it's often too late. The same impenetrable wall that for years shielded her from pain, now prevents her from truly recognizing his genuine willingness to change. The relationship is in the danger zone.

She knows that walls there. She is worried about opening up to me again. Its tough for her. She feels she wasted years on me changing. Only now when she doesnt need me anymore is she seeing those changes.

The article is pretty much dead on.

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If you're a man reading this and your wife has been complaining or nagging, thank her. It means she still cares about you and your marriage. She's working hard to make your love stronger. Spend time with her. Talk to her. Compliment her. Pay attention. Take her seriously. Show her that she's the most important thing in the world to you.

Its what Im doing. I think she will give it another chance. I look forward to the work though. I want the love of my life back.

Thanks for the link
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/04/10 04:57 PM
I'm glad you found some things in common too. I agree about the 'steps towards divorce' not being right on. I think in our cases, our WWs took the steps to allow the affair. I think working towards divorce on their part would have been better. I thought it was a very good article too.
Posted By: loaded Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/04/10 09:31 PM
I gotta say that I read this entire thing, and it took me two days, but it answered a lot of the questions that I have had about Plan A and such. Thanks for posting your experiences.

I had the same situation present itself in that I was in the middle of a legal proceeding and we were "thinking" of working things out. There was a "Rule 11" agreement that we could both agree to to put things on temporary hold for a while. You have to realize that a lot of things in a divorce don't actually include a judge if you can both agree on the issues. It might be possible in SC, I'm not sure. Might be worth checking out.

In my case I had the PI info, and records and testimony and such, and it ended in me basically getting everything. The house, the kids, child support...This was a far greater motivation, it seemed, for my WW to consider working things out, than shutting down everything and showing her some bold move that proved my love for her. This might or might not be MB, but is my personal experience.

It is really hard to trust a person's motivations and things especially when you are talking about property and legality, and such. I respect that it's terribly hard on you as well.

I have to say that I am envious of your tenacity and willingness to accept the wisdom that has been offered by all the very knowledgeable people behind you on this board. I wish that I had done things a bit differently...exposed "nuclear" and been less emotionally volatile.

One thing that I have noticed recently is the fact that you seem to be crumbling within yourself with the pain of losing this battle. I hope that you do not give up, but I would agree wholeheartedly with the 180 advice that you have been given. It would bring some sanity to you as well. People want what they can't have typically. Show her love and such, but def. do some things without her that make her a bit jealous. Skydive, fish, something completely out of the ordinary. When she learns about it, just tell her that if she wants to come you will let her know next time and she can come, but you didn't think she was into that sort of thing. This drove my WW completely nuts. Ina good way. I got so used to doing the laundry, the bills, the yard, that I found myself completely boring compared to the guy that she would go out and party with and sleep with all night. I didn't used to be that way, but over time, I was!

It will give you some self confidence. It will make you interesting. Sure you might think or her the whole time, but trust me there will be another time that you can take her.

Sooner or later she will realize that this affair was completely a mistake. My WW was severly beaten by OM one night after they had a fight. That officially ended their relationship, even though I didn't really play all the cards right. You never know...Esp. when God is guiding you. He can keep your way straight even when you don't know where you are going!

You have a good level way of approaching this situation and I think it will work out...But I personally don't know how to handle the legal aspects of the situation. What I chose was to go through with the divorce, and then if she chose to work things out, then we could when I held all the cards. That's just me. Typically the person who files first has the most control over the situation, and with her income not supportive of a legal battle...well...There has to be some way to postpone things w/o closing the book on the whole thing.

Good luck bro!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/06/10 03:07 AM
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I gotta say that I read this entire thing, and it took me two days, but it answered a lot of the questions that I have had about Plan A and such. Thanks for posting your experiences.

Thank you for taking the time to read it. If the pitfalls I fell into help anyone else its worth it.

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I had the same situation present itself in that I was in the middle of a legal proceeding and we were "thinking" of working things out. There was a "Rule 11" agreement that we could both agree to to put things on temporary hold for a while. You have to realize that a lot of things in a divorce don't actually include a judge if you can both agree on the issues. It might be possible in SC, I'm not sure. Might be worth checking out.

To the best of my knowledge there is little interaction with the judges in SC after the temparary hearing. If parties agree they rubberstamp the agreement. Mediation is required in SC.

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In my case I had the PI info, and records and testimony and such, and it ended in me basically getting everything. The house, the kids, child support...This was a far greater motivation, it seemed, for my WW to consider working things out, than shutting down everything and showing her some bold move that proved my love for her. This might or might not be MB, but is my personal experience.

Whats done is done for me. It isnt just a olive branch to the WW. God hates divorce and I wanted no part in it. If she pursues it then i will fight her till the end.

I dont want to use it as a hammer. Its a leap of faith but one I made.

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I have to say that I am envious of your tenacity and willingness to accept the wisdom that has been offered by all the very knowledgeable people behind you on this board.

just wish i had knew about this stuff when my M was falling to pieces. There is no instruction manual for this stuff.

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One thing that I have noticed recently is the fact that you seem to be crumbling within yourself with the pain of losing this battle. I hope that you do not give up, but I would agree wholeheartedly with the 180 advice that you have been given. It would bring some sanity to you as well.

The uncertainity in my life is taking its toll. Every night I watch her walk out is pain for me. The guilt I feel is horrible as well. I do blame myself for letting the cracks develop in my M. Its just such a heavy load to bear. Im seeing fruits but until she has recommitted herself I cant rest.

The OM as far as i can tell is out of the picture now. Its just me and her. She just isnt sure she has another enough energy left to try it again. She spent so much over the years. I should be happy with the effort she is putting in I know but I want my wife back. I want our chance at recovery.

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Sooner or later she will realize that this affair was completely a mistake.

She already regrets it. I honestly think that when i busted her so completely and the massive exposure that I made her do killed the fantasy completely. They both knew the party was ending soon anyways since he was transferring overseas.

Im completely willing to forgive and move forward. I just want her to come with me.

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You never know...Esp. when God is guiding you. He can keep your way straight even when you don't know where you are going!

I trust God with my burdens. I think he is watching out for my M. It still hurts to see her walk out every night even if it is just to her parents house. I have prayed for hours for God to give me patience, and to touch my WW heart. I have prayed that her carries these burdens for me since I can feel myself buckling.

I wont give up on my wife. It just brings me to tears that she gave up on me. Now Im fighting years of inattentiveness to bring her back home,

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My WW was severly beaten by OM one night after they had a fight. That officially ended their relationship, even though I didn't really play all the cards right.

Im sorry she went through this. Im glad she had you to depend on.

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Typically the person who files first has the most control over the situation, and with her income not supportive of a legal battle...well...There has to be some way to postpone things w/o closing the book on the whole thing.

Well its tied up atm. I wont serve her papers. My lawyer is seeking a continuance that hopefully they will grant without her being served. If not I will drop the complaint (probably lose my grounds as well since it will be interpretted by a judge as forgiveness). If not I will have 60 days from the date of filing the complaint to serve her. That puts me early August. Hopefully by then it will be a non issue. Im not going to continue on though with the process though since God hates divorce.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/06/10 03:25 AM
Report from the WW college town.

First of all she went. DD4 talked her into going rather than coming up today. She insisted on getting her own room though.

Decent ride up there. She was fairly withdrawn though.

We get to the town i had to drive right by the hotel I busted them in. I just stared it down though. I refused to look away. My stomach dropped though when i saw it. I kept wondering what room they were in.

The town itself was a non issue though. So many good memories that the bad ones didnt overwrite it. We talked about some of them too. The A barelly came up all weekend.

Good day at the park with DD4. We had alot of fun. ALso ate at the WW favorite restaurants. On the way back she was gonna stop at a high end asian resteraunt. She asked me if it would be ok if we just did osmething small in Ikea's cafeteria instead.

I told her "Id go with you anywhere". She thanked me for saying that. She said it was one of the sweetish things ive said to her since I wasnt trying so hard.

One big event though. After she had said good night last night she closed the door (our rooms were connected). I immediatly just started praying and reading my bible. I also ended up crying. It happens alot after she leaves me for the night. She ended up coming back in to check on the DD4 and caught me though. I broke down.

We ended up having a long talk (didnt really want to do relationship talk but had to at this point). I told her how much I was hurting and how hard this was on me. I also told her my guilt. She said it wasnt my fault at all for the A. She also told me that she was just as wrong as me during the M. Didnt make my pain go away though. Also told her about my feelings about God. She understood. She told me that she believes the changes I made in life are real. She just doesnt know if she can go through another recovery attempt. That is really hard to swallow. My cp is running over with motivation about the M. The though that she could give up is crushing.

She says she doesnt wanna stay at the house with me because she doesnt want to put me and DD4 though any unneccessary pain. If she comes back she wants to be committed to me. She doesnt wanna come back and get my hopes up just to dash them in a few weeks if she cant get motivated and just quits. She also doesnt wanna confuse DD4 by moving in and out.

So im still in the misrable holding pattern. I cant do anything but let her work it out in her own mind and trust in the Holy Spirit to touch my wife. Thats what im praying for. I want this to work out and I dont wanna live my life without her.

Also the WW told me she had read the copy of SAA I had given her. She doesnt believe in it like I do but she read it. Not sure what that means. Trying to push her towards the program right now is a LB. There will be a time for that just not yet.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/06/10 03:26 AM
It is allowed when adultery is involved.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/06/10 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
It is allowed when adultery is involved.

Yes. Good point. I appreciate that YEG is hoping to save his marriage, but God will not be against him if he can't save it. And God is not against any BS who choses divorce on the grounds of adultery. That points to the devastating effects of it...that God would allow a marriage to be end over it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/06/10 12:29 PM
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Mat 19:7 They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"

Mat 19:8 He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

I have the right to do so but I am not exercising my right. There are many stories of forgiveness in the bible. I want to forgive my wife and honor my vows. I want to protect my family.

Im "all in" as some say.

on another note I really have to find a better way to deal with my personal guilt and neediness. TOO MUCH RELATIONSHIP TALK. I have to find a way to limit it.

I think I am going to have to designate a day in my mind to talk about it. Just force myself to hold back till then. I dont want it pushing my WW farther away to lighten my burdens.
Posted By: loaded Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/07/10 03:29 AM
Hey, Yeg, everyone here respects what you want. I had to come to grips that it wasn't something that I could MAKE happen or fix...There is another person here in this equation. Everything is probably going to work out the way it should, esp. if you give it up to God, like it seems like you are trying to do.

This process was complete hell on me, and I'm sure it has been for many others, hence the need for the anti-depressants and tears and counseling...Sometimes it still is terribly difficult months later.

I'm more coming from a perspective of your personal well being. I am encouraging you to find some kind of an outlet. I completely relate to your feelings of trying so hard and being so focused. This is a complicated game of chess now. You have a wonderful set of educational tools, and after a bunch of matches (figurative) you will ultimately prevail. It might not be exactly as you expect it to be though because each game is different and each victory or loss is going to be different.

I found those same sets of passages in the Bible...the main focus should be peace. God also says in heaven there is no marriage or divorces...

Seriously...go tire yourself out somehow. I bought a workout DVD set and put all my aggression and frustration into it, just so I could sleep at night! I lost tons of weight and get tons of attention now. It's a HUGE confidence booster. Ultimately, you don't want to come across as someone with no options, relationship wise. It's kinda like dating again. The marriage factor normally takes people who are dating a while.

For me its six months later, we are divorced, and living together. Our relationship is better than it ever has been. It was like we got rid of the old crappy one and got a new upgraded one. Not really what I would like to have happen, but things work out in weird ways. If a man's steps are from the Lord then how can he know his path?

Just don't force it, or smother her. Just be like Fonzie...Cool...all girls like that!


__________________________________________________________
Me (BS) 32
Her (WW) 34
Married 12 years
DD8, DS10, DS12 in my custody
Divorce Final Jan 2010
NC w/ OM since Feb
Status - In remission prognosis good
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/07/10 11:27 AM
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Hey, Yeg, everyone here respects what you want. I had to come to grips that it wasn't something that I could MAKE happen or fix...There is another person here in this equation. Everything is probably going to work out the way it should, esp. if you give it up to God, like it seems like you are trying to do.
I got to think it will. MIL and FIL appreciate what Im trying to do. My parents understand but wish I would do it concurrent with the legal process.

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This process was complete hell on me, and I'm sure it has been for many others, hence the need for the anti-depressants and tears and counseling...Sometimes it still is terribly difficult months later.

yeap. On pristiq 100mg, a marriage couch, personal psychiatrist. There is nothing I can do about it either. I just have to stay in pain till she makes up her mind.

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I'm more coming from a perspective of your personal well being. I am encouraging you to find some kind of an outlet.

I am running again. Ran 3.4 miles yesterday. Ive lost 20 pounds and at least 2 inches off my waist. Its tough because if I do stuff I dont see DD4 as much. Often after DD4 goes to bed the WW asks me if I wanna watch TV or something with her. I want to put in the time and meet her needs so I do that. Its tough.

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This is a complicated game of chess now. You have a wonderful set of educational tools, and after a bunch of matches (figurative) you will ultimately prevail. It might not be exactly as you expect it to be though because each game is different and each victory or loss is going to be different.

I honestly dont know what Im going to do if she says she is done. All signs have indicated that she is willing to try once again. I think she is just seeing if the changes I made are real (kinda testing me) and doesnt wanna rush into a recovery to quick.

If she goes the other way I just dont know.

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I found those same sets of passages in the Bible...the main focus should be peace. God also says in heaven there is no marriage or divorces...

Im going to look for those. I need that.

WW was reading Leviticus the other day. She made the comment that women are not highly thought of. She had a few passages highlighted on strength.

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Seriously...go tire yourself out somehow. I bought a workout DVD set and put all my aggression and frustration into it, just so I could sleep at night!

Well im off the Ambien. Thats a good sign. Work is what it is.

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I lost tons of weight and get tons of attention now. It's a HUGE confidence booster. Ultimately, you don't want to come across as someone with no options, relationship wise.

Facts are what they are. I will survive. I make a very good income for SC and will be a caring, considerate mate for someone. I would like for that to be my WW but if she doesnt thats ok. I will likely file again and go plan B.

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For me its six months later, we are divorced, and living together. Our relationship is better than it ever has been. It was like we got rid of the old crappy one and got a new upgraded one. Not really what I would like to have happen, but things work out in weird ways. If a man's steps are from the Lord then how can he know his path?

Its tough. Im definitely not judging anyone else s path.

Thanks for chatting. It does help.
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/07/10 12:24 PM
YEG,

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WW was reading Leviticus the other day. She made the comment that women are not highly thought of.

For what I think is the biblical view of marriage and of women, look at this: The Perfect Marriage

You can read the whole thing if you want to but the part where I explain what the word translated as "rib" in Gen 2:21 is what I think applies here.

Mark
Posted By: loaded Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/07/10 09:38 PM
"If a man's steps are from the Lord then how can he know his path? "

That was a quote from Proverbs...

My WW was saying the same types of things about the way that women were treated and how they were not respected in the Bible and such as well. Might be careful with the quoting until you can find some verses that show otherwise. Proverbs 31 may help...but you don't want to make it sound like you are ready for her to get back to work either!

Probably see more of the status of women being lower in the Old Test, than the New...

Keep yer head up!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/08/10 12:51 AM
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My WW was saying the same types of things about the way that women were treated and how they were not respected in the Bible and such as well

She is just cherry picking Old testament scripture to try to justify her actions. I think she is self loathing a bit. She is angry at herself for what she did. She has made comments like I deserve more than she can provide for me.

I deserve what God promised me. My second half. i just want her to uphold the vows she made. Not im gonna quit when things get too hard. I had my fingers crossed during the forsake all others part too.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/08/10 03:38 AM
Just cant catch a break sometimes.

All was great today. no relationship talk. DD4 was sleeping in bed and I was fixing to go home.

Then DD4 asked me to quit my job so I could spend all day with her and mommy. That really hurt me. I said I couldnt but mommy will take good care of her.

Then DD4 got upset at me having to leave. She was trying to make me hold WW hand and get into bed with them. I pretty much lost it and had to go.

I went downstairs and was fixing to leave. WW made an excuse to come downstairs and talk. She said I needed to work with her not to upset the baby on this.

i said, "Do you know how much this hurts? There is nothing I wouldnt want more than curling up with you in bed and holding your hand. I cant do that. You wont let me."

At that point she backed off. She was trying to bait me into a fight and I had to walk away.

She is doing this mock seperation sham. She is the one that cheated and let that evil into our M. She is the one that didnt keep her wedding vows. She is the one hurting DD4. This "time" she needs to be thinking about recommiting to the M is her doing. Not mine. Ive told her for weeks it is affecting DD4 and me.

What she doesnt know is her time with me on plan A is coming short. I have maybe another month of Plan A in me. I still dont have a real NC in place. She hasnt recommited to the M and we are still sleeping in seperate beds. There is no transparancy yet and she hasnt committed to a recovery program. She is already running low on $$$. Her 6 month supply of saving is almost gone already after a month. Thats WITH me still paying for a ton of stuff.

I hope she recommits to the M before I have to go dark plan B. I dont want her to have to expierence that and I dont wanna have to not be around DD4 as much. I have to preserve my love bank and I cant wait forever.

Im definatly in personnel recovery. I have options open to me. I make a good living and im not a beast to look at. The weight is falling off of me now. I want my WW to love me and recover with me. I realise that she may say no though. If that hasnt then Ill move on.

Im not giving up. She has to be willing to commit to have a M worth saving. If she isnt committed to that then ill just be back her in a year or so. Im still plan A but I can feel the Love Bank being sapped away.
Posted By: mindshare Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/08/10 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Im still plan A but I can feel the Love Bank being sapped away.

Stay in touch with these feelings YEG. It's critical that you monitor your own LB and that you are aware of your own feelings. Make sure to jump into Plan B before it is too late. Once the LB is completely empty you may find it is impossible to turn things around and attempt to save the marriage. I'm not saying you need to jump into Plan B today but I am cautioning you to keep in touch with your own feelings and WW's balance in your LB and make the jump before it's too late.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/08/10 02:33 PM
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Stay in touch with these feelings YEG. It's critical that you monitor your own LB and that you are aware of your own feelings. Make sure to jump into Plan B before it is too late. Once the LB is completely empty you may find it is impossible to turn things around and attempt to save the marriage. I'm not saying you need to jump into Plan B today but I am cautioning you to keep in touch with your own feelings and WW's balance in your LB and make the jump before it's too late.

Im taking the pulse of my LB always Mindshare. Im writing a "why am I doing this list" to remind why she is worth it. She isnt carrying on the A anymore. She just wont recommit to the M. So the balance isnt screaming down. Its just hard seeing her do this to me and DD4.

The D is still quasi active. I want to keep it open so I can use a legal seperation to aid going to Plan B. I wish there was another option.

I just have to prepare myself for the possibility that she may never recover or isnt willing to put in effort in recovery. I think my M is worth saving. I cant do this by myself though.
Posted By: YEG Hmm Almost like she is PAing me - 06/09/10 11:08 AM
INTERESTING NIGHT

Work was uneventful. Did my usual call home during the day to ask her how her day is going and if she needed anything.

She said it was going pretty good. Hmm. She almost always sounds upset when im calling home. Like she thinks im snooping on her. She was talking almost like she was being fake.

No big deal. fast forward a few hours. Got off work and ran 3.4 miles. Running is a big part of my Personal R plan. I really am starting to feel alot better about myself. I actually am starting to believe it WILL be ok. I WILL be happy again. I still want it to be with the WW but if its not thats ok.

Got home and saw DD4 and the WW. WW once again being almost cheery. Still came across as a bit contrived. I asked her again if everything was ok. She reassured me it was. She has never shared her thoughts with me. Im still a bit leery. She hasnt earned back any trust really yet.

I take a shower and cut up and apple and a cucumber for DD4 and I to share. WW says she has dessert and had made some no bake oatties. They were really good. While she is walking around the kitchen we had a genuine conversation about the usual blather of the day. Nothing deep at all. The weird thing was she started it. She chatted with me. I didnt have to pull teeth out 1 word at a time.

She tells me there are some new shows on tonite. We watch them together. Chatted a few times while she made her own dinner.

Was a pretty good night overall. Not sure if she was pissed at me and just faking it or she was just being chatty. I encouraged it and I liked it. Im just so use to her being deceiving. Ive been lied to our entire M. If she is trying though I do appreciate it and will support it.

No physical contact but I have backed off from that anyways. A pity hug is empty. I dont need the physical reassurance. Personal R isnt just a BS idea I see now. It really is helping since its cut my neediness a lot.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: Hmm Almost like she is PAing me - 06/09/10 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
INTERESTING NIGHT
Personal R isnt just a BS idea I see now. It really is helping since its cut my neediness a lot.

This is interesting. Glad to hear you are feeling better. I think she is going to come around. It really hasnt' been that long and I think she is still suffering withdrawal.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Hmm Almost like she is PAing me - 06/09/10 03:09 PM
Don't ask her if everything is ok.

Don't ask her what she's thinking.

Don't seek reassurance.

Act as if all is good in your life with or without her.

That makes you more attractive.

Don't seek pity hugs.

Posted By: YEG Same old same old - 06/10/10 11:02 AM
Pretty much the same story tonite.

Went to MIL birthday dinner. All had a very nice time. After that we went and bought a DVD player for DD4 real bday. Normal chat.

Got home, put DD4 to bed. Asked her if she wanted to watch TV with me. She said sure. So we watched an hour. At least I got her off the computer for a bit.

After the show was over she was ready to leave. I was in and out. When WW said she was ready to go I just said OK and stood in the living room door. She looked at me a second then crossed the room and gave me a big hug.

The hug surprised me a bit. I could tell she was going to do it with the way she was just kinda hanging out pretending to read a paper. When she hugged me it felt sincere. She put her head on my chest and hugged back. I just put my arms around her and stroked her hair with one hand. After about 20 seconds she pulled away and we parted.

Still dont know quite how to interpret this. Its only 2 nights in a row as compared to the 2 years in a row she was running around in an A. I dont know if she is doing it because she thinks she should or if she is starting to feel some contrition and is close to returning to the M.

In the end it really doesnt matter since it doesnt change my actions. She is still wayward and Im still in plan A and 180.

Im meeting her needs as I can. If she wants more I give it to her. I did NOT get upset when she was leaving me. No tears or anything like that. Im sure she picked up on the fact I didnt like it much (we have been M 7 yrs so she knows me). I didnt beg or anything.

So Ive been running a pretty consistant plan A and 180. No LBers. No relationship talk. I finally have been able to repress it some. I just see it as fruitless anymore so im not as tempted.

She is heading off back up to her college town with a girl friend of hers. I will confirm its with her or I will take the 4 hr drive myself to check on them. She is taking DD4 so I don't think there is much risk. So I get tonite off of plan A.

Going to go running again today. Should be good.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Same old same old - 06/10/10 11:34 AM
Just keep doing what you are doing Yeg,
It sounds positive to me......You will have moments when you aren't so strong, walk away for a moment and pull yourself together......
Keep up the running and taking care of yourself, it always makes me feel better.....
Don't push her, let her do the thinking and planning........like the hug......her idea.
She had to think about doing that and why she was doing this......
That to me is a good sign........
Stay cool and easy to be with, laugh a little when you are together.......
She will start to want that again, to be happy with you....
Be patient and keep your eye on the big picture....
(((HUGS))))
Posted By: schtoop Re: Same old same old - 06/10/10 11:39 AM
Stay stong, YEG.

Good job with the running. A few weeks after D-Day I was finding it harder and harder to get motivated for my routine runs. One day I just sat down and cried about halfway through my long run for the week.

But now the running really is theraputic. I've found some nice trails to run on and threre's something peaceful about striding quietly through the woods. Ran my fastest 5K that rivaled my old high school times just a few weeks ago.

I sincerely hope that your WW is slowly coming around. With mine, all the talk of "not trusting the changes", "too late", "don't want to get your hopes up", and "can't commit to recovery", all this rhetoric was just a justification for still being wayward. She was in contact with the OM (and others) the whole time.

I sincerely hope that is not your case, the hugs and the time you are spending together is a good sign that you may be making some progress. I'm just very jaded right now to those kind of statements.
Posted By: YEG Re: Same old same old - 06/10/10 01:26 PM
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But now the running really is theraputic. I've found some nice trails to run on and threre's something peaceful about striding quietly through the woods. Ran my fastest 5K that rivaled my old high school times just a few weeks ago.

I started running again after D-Day. Wife likes to run alot. She has done a 1/2 marathon. I use to run alot. So I started it as RC but it really is helping me now. It is therapeutic. I really check out of my problems for 45 minutes or so. It also is toning my legs alot so I know im getting sexy again.

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With mine, all the talk of "not trusting the changes", "too late", "don't want to get your hopes up", and "can't commit to recovery", all this rhetoric was just a justification for still being wayward. She was in contact with the OM (and others) the whole time.

Still NC that I can find. Ive been snooping for cell phones and other signs. I have the house alone tonight so im gonna toss the room good. She isnt making foggy statements like that. She has told her friends that she believes the changes I made are real. She is noticing.

She isnt committing to recovery yet of course. She is being honest though and saying its because she isnt sure SHE has the will to do it. Its not a BH issue.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Same old same old - 06/10/10 02:54 PM
Her sudden cheerfulness is a little concerning. Sometimes, a WS will become all happy and light if contact has been made. Normally, if there is no contact, a WS would be going through some withdrawal and nothing is right in their world, almost as if they are in mourning. I think someone commented on another thread how their angry, sullen, and quiet WS was suddenly walking through the house whistling and they knew something was up.

I hope I'm wrong. Just be diligent in your verification of no contact.

You're doing great Yeg!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Same old same old - 06/10/10 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Her sudden cheerfulness is a little concerning. Sometimes, a WS will become all happy and light if contact has been made. Normally, if there is no contact, a WS would be going through some withdrawal and nothing is right in their world, almost as if they are in mourning. I think someone commented on another thread how their angry, sullen, and quiet WS was suddenly walking through the house whistling and they knew something was up.

I hope I'm wrong. Just be diligent in your verification of no contact.

You're doing great Yeg!

ITA. YEG, I'd fire up your buggy and go to her college town. The fact that she's taking DD is no guarantee that this is an innocent visit. Didn't you mention before that she went there with OM? I think you need to go there and confirm this.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/10/10 05:26 PM
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Her sudden cheerfulness is a little concerning. Sometimes, a WS will become all happy and light if contact has been made.

I thought about this. Im a little concerned as well. Gonna defiantly snoop she is gone. She isnt bouncing off the wall happy clicking her heels but she just seems less depressed.

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The fact that she's taking DD is no guarantee that this is an innocent visit.

I agree. I have verified her friend is with WW. I can verify that she is with the friend she said she was. I KNOW that friends will sometimes cover for other friends.

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Didn't you mention before that she went there with OM? I think you need to go there and confirm this.

Yea this is where the PI caught them. Ill check OMs house for his car. If hes not there then Ill do the 3 1/2 hour drive.

I agree that there is definatly a risk associated with it.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/10/10 07:33 PM
even if she's not planning to rendezvous w/ OM (seems unlikely in terms of sheer logistics--DD present=dealbreaker, i should hope) you know it's going to bring back memories...

devil's advocate, here: maybe she's testing herself to see how she handles those memories. and maybe her cheerful outlook means she's feeling pretty confident that she can squelch 'em. be ready for possible weepiness upon return.

hey--you're doing a KILLER job, outlook, actions, words, everything--keep it up!

p.s. re Leviticus, she's probably in a mindset where she's dying to feel slighted and therefore justified...she's not ready for scripture about godly wives, except maybe the milder stuff in Proverbs (survey field, clothed in scarlet, family rise up, call her blessed, etc.). that's stuff ANY wife would aspire to. anything smacking of submission is going to feel like condemnation to her right now.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/10/10 07:36 PM
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I can verify that she is with the friend she said she was. I KNOW that friends will sometimes cover for other friends.
So you know you shouldn't trust her friend, right?

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Ill check OMs house for his car. If hes not there then Ill do the 3 1/2 hour drive.
What are her logistics concerning this trip? Is she driving? Is her friend driving? Who's driving. I'm asking because if she's got a vehicle, OM's car will more than likely BE in his driveway. Don't trust that.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/10/10 08:20 PM
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devil's advocate, here: maybe she's testing herself to see how she handles those memories. and maybe her cheerful outlook means she's feeling pretty confident that she can squelch 'em. be ready for possible weepiness upon return.

We were just in College town USA (just a made up name) last week. We went up there together. She said that she had more fun than she expected (with me).

As far as self testing maybe.... She goes to College Town USA alot. Very few times it was with him. That just happens to be the place I caught them at and the last rendezvous location. They went all over the SE together to whatever event she wanted to go. She went for the RC of traveling, he went for the SF.

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be ready for possible weepiness upon return.

Im past the initial worrying about all her up and down moods. It still bothers me but i just deal with it.

THe BIG reason she wants to go to College Town USA is because the theme park there. We bought season tickets to it. So she can go for free and get a trip out of town. WW and her friend are childhood buddies. They use to go to the park as kids and now they are taking THEIR kids there.

I dont know if they are sharing a hotel room (friend and her). If they are then they will have 3 kids under the age of 5 staying in the room with them. We do have a cabin up there but WW usually stays in town.

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So you know you shouldn't trust her friend, right?

I do NOT trust her friend. Especially this one since she started dating him while he was still married to his ex-wife. She has always been nice to me and she doesnt hate me but I dont think she would want to test their friendship by disapproving of her sneaking around.

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What are her logistics concerning this trip? Is she driving? Is her friend driving? Who's driving.

Her friend is driving. WW car is in her friends driveway (confirmed). OM is NOT riding up with them as DD4 is a blather mouth and would DEFIANTLY narc on WW. DD4 knows OM. WW took her to meet him a couple of times for lunch. DD4 would remember his name and would tell everyone she saw "uncle" OM.

Om was so cocky he sent her a B-day card last year addressed "Uncle" OM. I freaked out at the time. I told WW thats what stepfathers are called. I let WW gaslight me. I just wish I had followed up more then. That was my first hard indication that something wasn't kosher. I jsut couldnt believe my WW would actually betray me like that. What a fool I was.

Anyways

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I'm asking because if she's got a vehicle, OM's car will more than likely BE in his driveway. Don't trust that.
I think OM would have to ride up today to see her. I will call his desk at work today and tommorow and see if he answers. Most likely he isnt doing the 7 hr round trip if he only has 12 hrs off. Logistically it would be alot easier to just try to sneak around here while im at work than dodge 3 kids.

Now Would he do it? Probably. Ill just see if I can verify it locally.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/10/10 08:42 PM
maybe we're all overemphasizing the importance of this CollegeTown outing--glad you're on your toes, though, and seeing the situation clearly.

i haven't read every single post in this thread, but OM sounds tacky and cheap (birthday card is sickening) and i'm sure that, on some level, your wife recognizes this in him.



Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/10/10 09:33 PM
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maybe we're all overemphasizing the importance of this CollegeTown outing--glad you're on your toes, though, and seeing the situation clearly.
We could be wrong of her motives. We are NOT over emphasizing it though. I have assume she is always looking for a way to get around me and resume contact with him. I have to protect my family. Its good to look at this stuff from as many ways as we can.

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OM sounds tacky and cheap (birthday card is sickening) and i'm sure that, on some level, your wife recognizes this in him.
When she broke off their engagement it had alot to do with his cheapness and being insensitive to her feelings. He forgot her on major holidays. Didnt get her presents. He never wanted to fly to visit her. She had to come out with him. He would blow her off to visit his family.

When they were engaged I was the OM. She would call me and complain about him. We had dated before but never anything serious. I was living half way around the world so it was just by phone. I got deployed in the middle of their engagment. I told her have a nice wedding and a good life because I would NOT be involved with a married woman. I didnt call her for 8 months. I got curious and called to catch up. Turns out she wasnt married and the wedding was on indefinite hold. I ended up transferring an hour from her and the engagement fell apart shortly after I got back.

I probably had something to do with it. If they were married we would have been in an EA. They weren't M though. I realize that now and I feel guilty about what I did somewhat.

That was 8 years ago now. I KNOW from what his family says he blames his failed engagement on the OM (me). I dont know who he blames for the other 2 engagements of his that failed. Engaged is NOT married though. She never took vows till death to you part with him. She doesnt have a child with him.

The point is that to him im STILL the man that ruined his engagement to her. To HIM they are soul mates and I just got in between them. He blames me for ruining their engagement. Thats why he had no problem sleeping with a married woman. He felt I deserved it. THe only reason he is backed off is because he has 17 years in the military. Thats alot of time to risk over a woman that already spurned you once.

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on some level, your wife recognizes this in him.

I dont know what she thinks about him. I think she is sorry for the pain she caused me. I think she still feels a bit entitled to the A thats just conjecture though.

She is starting to realize just how important she is to me. That I WILL fight for her. I think she is also starting to realize that she appreciates me more than she ever knew. We shall see I guess.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/11/10 11:11 AM
She is staying in the same room as her friend. I ended up not going up there. I went by his house and doorbell ditched him. He answered so he isnt at college town USA.

Kinda juvenile but it was effective enough.

We talked a bit on the phone. Probably about 5 minutes. Pretty good for us on the phone. Usually she will barely bother saying hi.

She got upset when I asked her what hotel she was staying at. She still is very touchy about that. Very passive aggressive and defensive. "well we are staying at the holiday inn I think. I would give you the room number but the phone is unplugged because friends kids are trying to call out. Ill be glad to take pictures to prove it for you if you want me too."

I just said thank you for telling me and changed the subject. I hope she doesnt think we can just sweep this under the rug and move on. Im NOT going plan C.

Anyways thats the latest.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/11/10 01:10 PM
I don't like that she can't understand that she can't have over night trips on her own. redflag

I don't like the remark: I think it's a Holiday Inn, she doesn't know, this statement only plants seeds of doubt. redflag

As to I'd give you the room No.: is not the same as giving you the room No. Blocking you from checking up on her. redflag

As to the excuse that the plug was pulled to keep the kids from making calls: can't the kids be told touch the phone and I'll break your hands. redflag

Something smells.

You had the wrong OM, OM2, WW is not where she says she is or with who she is with? rant2
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/11/10 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
I don't like that she can't understand that she can't have over night trips on her own. redflag

I don't like the remark: I think it's a Holiday Inn, she doesn't know, this statement only plants seeds of doubt. redflag

As to I'd give you the room No.: is not the same as giving you the room No. Blocking you from checking up on her. redflag

As to the excuse that the plug was pulled to keep the kids from making calls: can't the kids be told touch the phone and I'll break your hands. redflag

Something smells.

You had the wrong OM, OM2, WW is not where she says she is or with who she is with? rant2

ITA. I don't like this YEG. It really smells. redflag
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/11/10 02:10 PM
Never even considered the possibility of another OM. Its certainly possible.

I can tell you nothing has come up on the KL. She didnt delete her old conversations from the OM. They are still there. Jokes about "poking" each other on FB. Made me sick.

Nothing I can do now about this trip. I'll have to be extra paranoid and snoop even more.

I have discussed the need for EP. I have told her what Im gonna expect. She hasnt decided to commit to the M yet. She just agreed not to talk or email OM.

Thats why im in PA and not injury recovery. Im treating this as an active affair. My PB is already planned out. Im ready to go FULL DARK when necessary. I still have a fairly good balance in the Love Bank so im going to continue to hold out. If I find contact though thats a pretty big negative. Im sticking to my 180 plan as well. It helps protect myself from these actions.

Im not getting gas lighted by these actions though. I agree with you there are some serious red flags.

I might have to consider bringing up EP earlier than I wanted. I wanted to use Steve Harley to introduce these for me. Might have to change that plan.

Probably going to make a strategy session with SH this next week. See what he thinks I need to do.

Thanks for the input guys. Wish I had made the drive now so I would know for sure. I might look for a local PI in Boone as well. Maybe I can hire him on a job by job basis. Dont really wanna drop another couple of Gs for another retainer.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/11/10 02:25 PM
First im not defending the actions here. Just stating why she said she did these things.

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As to the excuse that the plug was pulled to keep the kids from making calls: can't the kids be told touch the phone and I'll break your hands. redflag

My child 4 years old. Her kids are 2 years and 9 months. They were with them there when I talked on the phone. I heard their voices and was confirmed with DD4 phone conversation.

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As to I'd give you the room No.: is not the same as giving you the room No. Blocking you from checking up on her. redflag

Bleh got me there. That is classic WW misdirection. Should have insisted. I just would feel more comfortable if she would agree to give me this stuff.

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I don't like that she can't understand that she can't have over night trips on her own. redflag

She would say she wasnt alone. She was with her friend.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 01:32 AM
Things are taking a turn for the worse.

For weeks now ive been seeing us make progress ive thought. We have been spending time together. She has been showing me some affection. A few hugs here and there. The last week I worked a really good 180. met her needs without acting pathetic.

Today after I got back from my run she walked in the door. She showed me a dress she bought DD4.

I aksed her if we could talk. We hadnt tlaked about the relationship all week so she agreed. I asked her for the truth and she gave it to me.

I asked her if she is close to returning home and recommitting to the M.

She told me she was seriously considering moving out.

That was the opposite of all the indications she has been telling me. For weeks I have felt us getting closer. Taking very baby steps back to each other. Now she is running away again.

There may have been contact this weekend. She insists there wasnt but WW lie. She knows Ive promised the OM hell if he contacts her again.

I had just spoke to her father yesterday. She had been telling him that we were slowly trying to work things out. He was quite shocked with the lastest turn of events.

WW said that she sees how hard im trying. She says she is just so unhappy though still. I told her she had been in an A for 2 years now. We have only been trying a month. She said that the A didnt have anything to do with it (whatever). She just wants to be happy again. I wanted to just scream "Your unhappy because you have betrayed your entire family and yourself by falling in love and F&&&ing another man!" I didnt though.

I brought up the idea of talking to Steve. I told her our M deserved a full recovery effort. That I wanted her to move back in and fully commit to the MB recovery program. I asked her to please let me make an appointment for her with steve. All she would say is she will consider it.

After that I asked her if she is talking to God about our problems. She immediatly clamped up. I could tell I hit a raw nerve. All she said is, "Are you seriously asking me that?"

I knew the conversation was over so i took a shower. It was 100 degrees out today when i was running so I was soaked. She was in her office when I told her I was going to pick up DD4. She saw me and she just let loose with the tears. She was besides herself crying her eyes out. I got down and just held her. I held her in my arms and i told her I loved her. I told her everything is going to be alright. After crying about 4 minutes or so she told me to leave and pick up DD4.

I went immediatly to FIL house. I told him the latest turn of events. I told FIL exactly what she had said. Her FIL has condemned the A strongly. He has been my greatest ally and I hope he continues to be. He had been taking a passive role. Letting WW come to them for council. He said he is going to be more active. He also led me to believe he will be more active in the OM counter squad and find out exactly when he is transferring away. its supposed to be soon.

While this sucks Im not exactly surprised. I have been preparing to go to plan B for a while now. Everything is lined up. I just was hoping she would be the exception that didnt have to put herself through that pain.

Her FIL agreed that I should cut all support but whats legally required if she moves out. I told FIL it wasnt to punish her but give her a taste of what life would be like after the D.

It will be pretty gloomy for her. Im going a full dark pitch black plan B if she leaves. Everything is going away. Being she got fired from her job she has no income except what ive been providing. She will have to live in her Gmothers old house. Im sure FIL will pay for some utilities but she has a very expensive appitite. She has already burned through most of her 6 months of savings in just a month. She has significant credit card debt (about 10k I think). She also has a 400 dollar a month car payment. Not to mention that she will have to find money for her phone and health insurance.

I dont think she will be happy if she moves out. I feel downright scared for her honestly. Ive shielded her for years from the pains of money. She is about to get a taste of real life which I dont think will be very pleasant. I dont think OM will bail her out either. Especially if it risks his precious career. Hes also cheap always has been. Dont think hes going to wanna funnel money into someone he is going to be leaving in a few months. He loves her though so who knows.

PB will help me in my recovery at least. Ill be able to save tons since im not going to be spending close to the amount I was taking WW out and on vacations to try to show her the new improved me. Ill have more time to run and stuff. That will be good.

I need some support tonite. Its just really sad hearing that I just cant make her happy. I dont want to lose my wife. Im keeping it together but its really tough. Please someone offer some insight. Even if its just offering prayers thats appreciated too.


Im willing to just place this in Gods hands. If she leaves thats all I can do. My wife is worth this hell but the thought of investing all this effort just to fail is really hard.

Here are some examples of how over the place she is. She has talked to me about buying property with her in College town USA. She is talking about things she wants to do around the house. She was taking day trips with me to all over the state and saying how much fun she was having. Now i hear she is misrable and upset because she cant get happy.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 02:09 AM
I know you will get some real advice and support from the vets soon, but I wanted to say that I don't think it is as bad as you are thinking it is. I think she misses the OM. I think she knows she will likely never see him again and she is struggling terribly...looks to me like you just keep plan A'ing.. I think she burst out crying after telling you she is thinking of moving out because reality IS setting in. Saying she is 'thinking about moving out' and her actually moving out are two different things.

Hang on. I don't think hope is anywhere near gone.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 02:20 AM
Quote
She told me she was seriously considering moving out.

Sorry to hear things got a bit rough.

If WW is truly NC and if OM is the person you describe I would expect a different behavior. This is a puzzle and perhaps you should consider a different approach.

If there is NC perhaps she is simply in deep withdrawal. Theat would explain everything------including the tears.

You know her better than all of us that have been following this thread. What is your gut telling you?

By reading your words I only see the following possibilities:

She is still in contact with OM.
She is in deep withdrawal.

Not sure about your so-called needy behavior. It does not sound like you are acting like that.


Have you asked her if she loves OM? Have you asked her if she is in withdrawal?

Being a WW is not easy because she has to give up OM and try to reconnect with you at the same time. This has to be a very difficult task.

I believe that some wayward folks are prone to be in la-la land and are dreamers. They tend to stay in Disneyland as long as they can.

I will pray for you.

God Bless!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 08:47 AM
Quote
You know her better than all of us that have been following this thread. What is your gut telling you?

My gut says she probably has had some contact with him. Not like before but I know she has at lest been on his facebook page.She hasnt been messaging him though. Her FIL has been asking her every night if she has been contacting him. WW tells him no. She tells me no as well.

If I could verify contact I would inform his command again. I cant find that though.

Quote
Have you asked her if she loves OM? Have you asked her if she is in withdrawal?

She no doubt is in love with him. Both the Om and I have been the 2 great love interests in her life. She has told him on facebook before I confronted him that WW loves OM. All kinds of sexual flirting.

When i asked her she always said she doesnt know and she is trying to figure that out. I have talked to her about withdrawals. She pretty much just ignored me.

Quote
Being a WW is not easy because she has to give up OM and try to reconnect with you at the same time.

Its not easy. She doesnt want to commit to either side and is fence sitting. She wont come home and let me meet all her needs. She wont completely swear off the OM. Its forced NC atm not NC by choice. She wont let me meet her greatest need (travel). Id love to schedule a cruise together. Thats tons of UA time. WW wont go. She is refusing to go on dates with me. Says they arent helping even though while on them she has a good time. She is just pretty much avoiding UA time.

She also lost her job at the same time I found out. Thats another reason for her to be unhappy. She is dealing with alot of stuff.

It will probably require PB to let her hit rock bottom. I just dont want to see her suffer but atm she is blaming me fo all her unhappiness. She is just not happy and she is married to me and its been bad for so long. SO therefore it MUST be me causing it. No way that the OM is causing it. No way that DD4 being upset because mommy wont stay with daddy anymore is it. The guilt from living a lie for years and lying constantly is the cause.

I think she knows deep down inside that what she is saying isnt true. She just isnt ready to do the things necessary to be happy yet.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:24 AM
What you are doing wrong:

You are trying to educate your WW.

You are doing relationship talks.

You are appearing weak and needy.

You are not letting WW have the time to let your changes register enough so she will feel confident that they are permanent.

You are allowing your WW the time to come out of withdrawal for the OM.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:54 AM
You need to sit tight. Plan A. After four weeks you can suggest lets call the Harleys to have them give us their opinion on where we are at. Just throw it out there, don't sell it, don't explain it, then just let it go for now.

Is your WW being transparent?

Then hold on to that and verify NC.

Your WW has been banging her OM for two years. Most likely it has been longer because WW's tend to minimized. This is why your WW is still pining for her OM. Withdrawal from an affair of this length takes time. WD can take up to six months.

WW villified you to justify her doing the OM. She now has to justify to herself that the OM is a POS for sleeping with a MW.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 06:38 PM
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Is your WW being transparent?

Not really. She equates my promise to continually inform his command every time he breaks NC as a threat. So she isnt contacting him. She sint being transparent though. She knows I am watching all the phone lines. She knows I have people watching his house. She knows I call and check up on her. When I do she gets upset though.

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Your WW has been banging her OM for two years. Most likely it has been longer because WW's tend to minimized. This is why your WW is still pining for her OM. Withdrawal from an affair of this length takes time. WD can take up to six months.

She claims she has only been sleeping with him for just over a year. She told me checked out of the M in august of 08. I call that the start of the EA/PA. In reality the EA began way before that im sure. Probably about 5 years ago off and on. Ir went supernova when our counciling attempts failed.

Im going to keep my PA going for a bit more. I thought about withdrawing away somewhat but I believe thats a bad way to go into PB. I want to be there one day showing her im giving it my all and just Poof when my PB date arrives.

Ive put off the divorce papers getting served. I believe I will use the papers getting served at the 60 day point from filing as an entry to PB. That will give her over 60 days of good PA time. She has noticed the changes. She sees how much im trying. She just is feeling unhappy constantly. Its like all my attempts to connect with her are just derailed.

Quote
WW villified you to justify her doing the OM. She now has to justify to herself that the OM is a POS for sleeping with a MW.

I hope she comes to that conclusion. I fear that she will just never be happy again. She began being unhappy when she called the OM then went deep into a depression when she started the EA. She completely checked out when the PA started. There is a reason I KNEW when the EA/PA started. Its because I could see the changes. I hate seeing her in such pain. For all she did to me I want to just hold her and protect her. I dont want to put her through a PB scenario but im prepared to do it.

Im definatly making another appointment with steve this week. Maybe he can give me some hope. ATM im at my low point.

BTW quick update. Took DD4 to church today. WW asked me how I was doing. I said I was doing as good as I could. i also said God is helping me carry these burdens. THen I waslked away. When she was leaving she told meshe would call me on her way home. She is going with her MIL and FIL to a show today a state away. I told her ok and walked off.

Im trying to amp up the 180 actions while meeting needs.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 06:41 PM
Still would like some more advice please. Im really scared still. Even if its just a promise to pray for me that would be appreciated.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 07:44 PM
Pros do you think I should give her my ENQ? Should I give her one to fill out?

I want to meet her needs but I dont want to misstep. I feel right now it would just fall on deaf ears.
Posted By: lildoggie Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 07:58 PM
I actually came here to talk about intimacy and how your not in sync with your W etc, but having read back only 2 pages... redflag redflag redflag

I believe there is contact, and that your in a false recovery. Your WW is behaving EXACTLY like my H did. Look harder and deeper into places she can make contact. Really stretch yourself. I finally found the deep underground contact Flick and PQ were making was via pictures they joint bought and sold on 'owned' on facebook. You can message previous owners of the pictures and it's really hard to find as a snooping spouse.

Not only would I not bother giving her your ENQ which trust me, she will not take notice of. I believe you need to continue your plan A (expect nothing, be the better person, apply stick as required) until you NEED to go to plan B.

And remember, plan A is being a welcome home mat, not a door mat.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 08:09 PM
Quote
I believe there is contact, and that your in a false recovery. Your WW is behaving EXACTLY like my H did. Look harder and deeper into places she can make contact. Really stretch yourself. I finally found the deep underground contact Flick and PQ were making was via pictures they joint bought and sold on 'owned' on facebook. You can message previous owners of the pictures and it's really hard to find as a snooping spouse.
Im certainly not in a false recovery because we never even started to recover. Im treating it a an active affair. All I can say is that viewed every webpage she visited on my computer. There are no suspicious pages. I could call her friend but that would be a waste of time. She wouldnt give me a straight answer anyways.

Quote
(expect nothing, be the better person, apply stick as required)
I need to keep my expectations in check. Thats for sure. I really thought we were making progress. The only thing I know for sure is my wife is so lost and foggy. Maybe new pressure will help out some.

I finally confided in her uncle the preacher at church. He is giving me lots of guidance and said he will support me in a custody battle. He cant sway her like her parents can though so hes little help on the exposure front. His praying with me gives me comfort though. He was SHOCKED when I told him about the affair.

Hopefully there will be some sort of a breakthrough. Im about ready to go ballistic on his command. There was a small shot there last time. If I break that boundary Im going HUGE next time. Basically everyone on the AFB is gonna know about the A and the OM. Pictures, phone records, facebook pages, GPS reports. He is going to wish he was dead.

Thank you for responding Lildoggie. Its been a really tough weekend.
Posted By: Mememe Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 08:28 PM
Try to stay cool and calm Yeg. I found these words from Nelson Mandela useful

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The generosity of the human spirit can overcome all adversity. Through compassion and caring we can create hope. We can create hope.

It sums up the carrot of plan A for me, it's all about you giving without demanding.

listened to this about 20 times today



Posted By: lildoggie Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 08:29 PM
Quote
Im certainly not in a false recovery because we never even started to recover.

ok, then her weekend away was the contact point.

Oh, and dont bother about the ENQ because as said before, when your the BS, you're the enemy, for as long as the A goes on.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 08:33 PM
I agree with lil'doggie and would not try the questionaires just yet. Stay calm my man and pull the reigns in on those expectations. You have been working this program for about a month. Stay focused and stay consistent. Keep working 'your plan' and stay above the fray. Remember you are not dealing with your wife, you are dealing with the alien still.

About going ballistic on his command.....

I wouldn't go as far as publicly sharing the details and pictures. I would find his commander and his local IG (inspector general) office and explain the situation to them in a letter or phone call. I would tell the commander, and let the commander know that the IG office has also been notified. This will force him to take action and initiate an ivestigation. If you expose in some other public way so that "the whole AFB will know", you will come off as very vindictive and desparate. Keep it professional.

I know it's hard, but do something fun or nice for yourself today. Go see a movie. Get your head out of the situation at least for a little bit.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 09:03 PM
Quote
Keep working 'your plan' and stay above the fray.

Im trying. Its hard not to just want to walk away or go crazy.

Quote
I wouldn't go as far as publicly sharing the details and pictures. I would find his commander and his local IG (inspector general) office and explain the situation to them in a letter or phone call. I would tell the commander, and let the commander know that the IG office has also been notified. This will force him to take action and initiate an ivestigation. If you expose in some other public way so that "the whole AFB will know", you will come off as very vindictive and desparate. Keep it professional.

Ill only use the CO and the IG office. I thought about using the base command as well but thats probably overkill.

Quote
I know it's hard, but do something fun or nice for yourself today. Go see a movie. Get your head out of the situation at least for a little bit.

Im going to run in 100 plus degree tempatures probably about 3.4 miles. I just have to get out. Running blanks me out of this stuff. It gives me a small reprieve. It will also use up most the day so I wont have to deal with the alien much. She can see my frustration and I dont want her to see me downtrodden.

Ill be there to put DD4 to sleep. Then ill pack up for work tomorrow. Ill ask her if she wants to watch a movie and that will be it.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 09:15 PM
YEG,

I know what you mean about the internal debate on going crazy or keep trying. That's why it's so important to take care of yourself and to remember WHY you are trying to save your marriage.

About running in 100 degrees....

Is this normal for you? I mean, are you OK to be running in the heat like that? As long as you are in shape for it, running is great. Just drink water.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 09:21 PM
Quote
About running in 100 degrees....

Is this normal for you? I mean, are you OK to be running in the heat like that? As long as you are in shape for it, running is great. Just drink water.

No its not really normal. I did it yesterday though. Ill hydrate. Its kinda a purge by fire thing. Maybe its my catholic roots poking out. I sometimes just have the urge to purge pain with more pain.
Posted By: _SOL Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 09:37 PM
Running is great for relieving the stress, but do it smart and don't overwork yourself. It's OK to work hard and sweat out the pain, but when it's that hot it can be dangerous. You don't want to end up with heat stroke. Just pay attention to how your body is reacting and if you need to, just turn around early or take a breather.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 09:53 PM
been there, done that, and it DOES work. we're grown-ups and trust that you know your limits, so i won't reiterate the bit about hydration. i encourage it--it's better to exhaust yourself physically than mentally or emotionally. in fact i've found physical exhaustion helps get everything else in perspective and lets you come home in a more serene state of mind.

plus, as you said, you're getting a little leaner and buffer each time; that can't hurt. what author said: "suffering does fine work with the chisel"? Doctorow? Huxley? Bueller? Anybody?
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 10:03 PM
Hi Yeg,

You did me a favor of posting to me quite awhile ago, and I quite honestly got lost in myself and did not post back to you. But, I appreciated your post to me.

Am 67 years old now and will be age 68 in another 8 days. I have studied the info here as well as other's threads. Fortunately for me Yeg I had a woman who when we were younger I did not have to go thru this. I doubt if I would have been near as stong as you are now.

I respond to you now because you are looking to decide what to do.

Just based on me and my experience, and fact that I was raised catholic as well, and just male instincts, I would now get to your Plan B like Now. I am not usually harsher than The Road, but this time I feel so.

The critical point in my reasoning is that you both have a 4 yr old daughter together. Yet your W thwarts her affair in your face despite that, and despite your hurt. The ocasional hugs and looks or whatever else do not seem at all sincere to me. This is a very small population here at MB I believe. In the real outside world I do not think that many husbands would stand for this. Period. It is not that I do not respect MB concepts, it is because I think many men in this situation are pretty decisive and do not even come here. I would not allow my W to take off despite her feelings. That in itself I believe, breaks the M covenant. Obviously you won't be able to stop her, but you should have given her consequences or be prepare to do that.

I cannot execute a Plan A or B with my W due to her housing situation. I try my best with the A. However, when she gets down and attacks me for the best I can do, and becomes cold and distant and expects me to try to work miracles for Her, I give her a 180 for several days. It works. But then it now seems it occurs more often again and again. Look Yet, I am not young, but I am not going to sacrafice my life for her. Your situation is not like mine, but it is in a way that your W is not responding at all. Many women today I think have lost it - the meaning of the instituion of marriage. And, they have acquired the knowledge and the taste for aggravating if not downright insulting their men for the purpose of pursuing their own goals and desire. This has to be anathama in the eyes of God.

Imho Yeg you need to give her a good taste of what like would be like now w/o you and your dau.

I will say a special prayer for you tonight.

Tom









Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
She got upset when I asked her what hotel she was staying at. She still is very touchy about that. Very passive aggressive and defensive. "well we are staying at the holiday inn I think. I would give you the room number but the phone is unplugged because friends kids are trying to call out. Ill be glad to take pictures to prove it for you if you want me too."

I don't believe she is there. She made up the story about the phone so you wouldn't call. She is lying about where she stayed.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
[I finally confided in her uncle the preacher at church. He is giving me lots of guidance and said he will support me in a custody battle. He cant sway her like her parents can though so hes little help on the exposure front. His praying with me gives me comfort though. He was SHOCKED when I told him about the affair.

Ok, YEG, this part really concerns me. Is there a reason why the uncle was not exposed to before? Will he speak to your wife about her affair?

Are there any other exposures that need to be done?

Quote
Hopefully there will be some sort of a breakthrough. Im about ready to go ballistic on his command. There was a small shot there last time. If I break that boundary Im going HUGE next time. Basically everyone on the AFB is gonna know about the A and the OM. Pictures, phone records, facebook pages, GPS reports. He is going to wish he was dead.

This is something that should not be delayed, YEG. Exposure should be immediate and nuclear. All of this should be sent wide and far. To his parents, friends, relatives.

Can you bring me up to speed about what exposures you have done?

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by SickofLimbo
Running is great for relieving the stress, but do it smart and don't overwork yourself. It's OK to work hard and sweat out the pain, but when it's that hot it can be dangerous. You don't want to end up with heat stroke. Just pay attention to how your body is reacting and if you need to, just turn around early or take a breather.

I so agree with this! When my XH left, I threw myself into exercise. It was my only relief from the horror. And I established lifelong exercise habits.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:25 PM
MORE ADVICE

" I said I was doing as good as I could. i also said God is helping me carry these burdens. THen I waslked away."

Your told no relationship talk and you still do. You come across as a wuss. Weak men are attractive to women.

As the godfather (marlon brando) said: you gotta act like a man.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:28 PM
I guess you are a little slow on the up take.

"Pros do you think I should give her my ENQ? Should I give her one to fill out?

I want to meet her needs but I dont want to misstep. I feel right now it would just fall on deaf ears."

No. does the N or the O confuse you, or is it when they are put side by side?

No relationship talk. Plan A the best you can. What her faults with you are, are needs that you can meet.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/13/10 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
I don't like that she can't understand that she can't have over night trips on her own. redflag

I don't like the remark: I think it's a Holiday Inn, she doesn't know, this statement only plants seeds of doubt. redflag

As to I'd give you the room No.: is not the same as giving you the room No. Blocking you from checking up on her. redflag

As to the excuse that the plug was pulled to keep the kids from making calls: can't the kids be told touch the phone and I'll break your hands. redflag

Something smells. Expose were the OM works.

You had the wrong OM, OM2, WW is not where she says she is or with who she is with? rant2

Thank you melody it confirmed my suspicion that this affair is still on.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 01:05 AM
First of all thanks for the many replys. It was just a rough day.

The run was very therapeutic. Pain sometimes clears the mind. It did in this case.

Quote
Just based on me and my experience, and fact that I was raised catholic as well, and just male instincts, I would now get to your Plan B like Now. I am not usually harsher than The Road, but this time I feel so.

The critical point in my reasoning is that you both have a 4 yr old daughter together. Yet your W thwarts her affair in your face despite that, and despite your hurt. The ocasional hugs and looks or whatever else do not seem at all sincere to me. This is a very small population here at MB I believe. In the real outside world I do not think that many husbands would stand for this. Period. It is not that I do not respect MB concepts, it is because I think many men in this situation are pretty decisive and do not even come here. I would not allow my W to take off despite her feelings. That in itself I believe, breaks the M covenant. Obviously you won't be able to stop her, but you should have given her consequences or be prepare to do that.

Im considering this. Im going to schedule an appointment with steve harley when his office is back open. They are closed on mondays. Ill get his take on it. Ill also get his take on how to handle the impending serve papers or drop the case date.

Quote
But then it now seems it occurs more often again and again. Look Yet, I am not young, but I am not going to sacrafice my life for her. Your situation is not like mine, but it is in a way that your W is not responding at all. Many women today I think have lost it - the meaning of the instituion of marriage. And, they have acquired the knowledge and the taste for aggravating if not downright insulting their men for the purpose of pursuing their own goals and desire. This has to be anathama in the eyes of God.
i think she feels sorry for me. I know she wishes I had never found out. She does not like what she is putting me through. I think thats one of her major reasons she wants to move out. To end my suffering. Thats just the side reason though. She also wants to carry on her A easier.

Quote
Imho Yeg you need to give her a good taste of what like would be like now w/o you and your dau.
its coming there. Im going to have a hard time getting custody though. It will also set off her motherly instincts and she will go nuts. It will probably set her family off against me as well.

Quote
I will say a special prayer for you tonight.

Tom
Thanks Tom. I sincerely appreciate that.

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Ok, YEG, this part really concerns me. Is there a reason why the uncle was not exposed to before? Will he speak to your wife about her affair?

Are there any other exposures that need to be done?

I should have exposed to him initially. Just didnt think it would be helpful since he wont confront her. Im seeking prayer support from him.

There really is no one else.

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Can you bring me up to speed about what exposures you have done?
MIL, FIL, her sister, her uncle, OM, OM command, om parents, all my family, her 3 best friends.

As of now only the FIL is providing steady pressure on her. The MIL will talk to her but doesnt force the issue. OM command confronted him. I just read the riot act to OM and threatened re exposure to his command every time I caught him contacting her. I havent caught anything yet thats concrete to go back to them.

Im going to find the PI is what now thread. Do a search for the boost phone online see if they can find an account open.

Quote
Your told no relationship talk and you still do. You come across as a wuss. Weak men are attractive to women.

As the godfather (marlon brando) said: you gotta act like a man.

No. does the N or the O confuse you, or is it when they are put side by side?

No relationship talk. Plan A the best you can. What her faults with you are, are needs that you can meet.

Im learning from the mistake. I got complacent and let expectations creep in on me since it seemed to be improving. I deserve the 2x4 to the skull.

Im just going to run PA and not ask anymore. I swear this time. I dont wanna know the answer anyways since it seems unlikely PA will work.

Question - What do I do if she brings up relationship talk? What if she tries for affection (hug and stuff)?

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 11:16 AM
WW is breaking down

After the day of hell I was at the house waiting for the wife to get home. She got home with DD4 at about 9ish. She was with the MIL and FIL at a show. I gave DD4 a hug and started putting her to bed. I walked by WW and said hi and asked her about her day.

She looked at me and started crying. I held her for a minute then DD4 came in and she stopped.

Later I passed her. More tears.

I walked into our bedroom. Shes on the floor crying. DD4 and me sat by her. I read DD4 her story and put her to bed. I went downstairs and started folding clothes.

WW made an excuse to go down stairs and sat by me. The tears were just flowing. I made small talk while I finished the clothes then I sat besides her.

I think overall I did really good. She just leaned on me and cried her eyes out for about an hour. I grabbed a washcloth and wiped away her tears. I just held her and stroked her hair. I told her everything was going to be alright. This usually just made her more upset because that is what she always wanted me to do when she had problems. She just wants someone to hold her and tell her everything was going to be ok.

Eventually she fell asleep on me. She woke up a bit later and I curled up behind her on the couch. I held her while she slept. A bit later she went up to bed and I curled up with her. She wasn't comfortable with me sleeping with her but she let me curl up with her a bit.

Here is how i plan A that night. I held her and was comforting to her. I did NOT ask her to tell me her problems. I did NOT do any relationship talk.

She made a couple of comments while she was crying.

"I just want to curl up into a ball." "I don't know how my life got so messed up."

I have no idea of the interpretation of this stuff. She could be trying to muster the courage to leave or she could be genuinely conflicted in her life. Only thing I know is she is a very sad person right now.

Anyone who has a guess what is going on please toss it out. Please evaluate my performance as well. Did I work the Plan A right? FWW especially since they might have been there.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 11:25 AM
""I just want to curl up into a ball." "I don't know how my life got so messed up."

Exposure and plan A is making her conflicted. Making her unsure that the OM will solve all her problems. Keep it up.

Next, you need pro help, call the Harleys on your own, cheaper then a divorce and a broken family for your daughter.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 11:29 AM
Quote
Next, you need pro help, call the Harleys on your own, cheaper then a divorce and a broken family for your daughter.

Ive already had my intial appointment. Im scheduling another one this week to fine tune my plan a and create a backup plan B. I bought the 5 session plan. Im saving one so she can call if she wants to for education and for steve to sell her the plan.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 11:54 AM
YEG, well how do YOU feel? I bet you feel like you did very well. I would agree that you did well indeed. Now do remember about NO EXPECTATIONS in Plan A though. Also, you don't really want to analyze her reactions. Honestly, it is crazy-making. Your WW could wake up and be completely PISSED at you for acting the way you did last night. Just remember that you want to stick to Plan A and not think about what she thinks about it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 12:04 PM
Quote
YEG, well how do YOU feel? I bet you feel like you did very well. I would agree that you did well indeed.

I think I did pretty good. I just want to do as good as I can.

Quote
Now do remember about NO EXPECTATIONS in Plan A though. Also, you don't really want to analyze her reactions. Honestly, it is crazy-making.
That Is so hard for me. I know I cant have expectations. I want to have my wife back so bad though so I tend to grab on to anything positive I can get. I have to curtail that though. That leads me to Relationship talks and other bad things.

Thanks for the post. I feel better than I did this weekend but I HAVE to learn to curtail that.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 12:16 PM
We all have problems with the no expectations part. It is something that all BSs have to deal with. We also all want our WSs to be our DSs again. We get glimpses at our DSs every once in a while during Plan A, but that WS alien comes creeping their head back in.

I am glad that you feel better. That is one of the perks of Plan A. There really are times when you feel better about what you are doing. Instead of looking to your WW's reactions o what you are doing, look at yourself. See the leaps and bounds that you are making. Gain confidence in how well you are accomplishing your daily goals of meeting ENs and avoiding LBs. You are doing a marvelous job.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 12:19 PM
Yeg,
You are doing great, holding her while she cries and telling her things will be alright reassures her she can count on you....
Letting her have her thoughts without any relationship talks shows her you are respecting her thoughts.....
It's all good, I know it's hard on you but this is a situation where you have to be very patient in the beginning.....
I'm glad you are talking to the pros, you are setting everything good in place now.......
I just enjoyed the little moments together with my husband when he was going through what your wife is going through, sometimes I thought I was making headway and then many times I thought I was just spinning my wheels. It takes some time.......
Just believe in what you had when you first married her, it was strong then and just a little lost right now, you are working towards having her fall in love with you all over......
just do little tiny things for her that she will notice, things that aren't expected, little touches, hugs if you can get her to.....
Tell her you love her and that you would like nothing more than to work on your marriage and enjoy your family together.....
good luck....(((HUGS))))
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by YEG



[size:20pt]Anyone who has a guess what is going on please toss it out. Please evaluate my performance as well. Did I work the Plan A right? FWW especially since they might have been there.

What is her explanation for crying? How does she explain this?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 01:31 PM
YEG, when folks say "no relationship talk" that DOES NOT MEAN you dont' ask questions about the affair and tell her how devastated you are. It does not mean you don't DEMAND that she end all contact with the OM.

Frankly, I don't really know what it means when someone says "no relationship talk" so perhaps someone could explain it to me..
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 01:33 PM
I didnt ask. I didnt want to get in a relationship conversation.

Quote
"I just want to curl up into a ball." "I don't know how my life got so messed up."
Thats the only thing she said.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
I didnt ask. I didnt want to get in a relationship conversation.

Quote
"I just want to curl up into a ball." "I don't know how my life got so messed up."
Thats the only thing she said.

YEG, it is ok to ask and discuss this with her. I don't understand the "no relationship talk" advice but you do need to be talking to her as much as possible about the situation.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Frankly, I don't really know what it means when someone says "no relationship talk" so perhaps someone could explain it to me..
I have taken issue with this before. It is commonly stated that being in Plan A means "no relationship talk". However, this is not something I understand Dr Harley to have said. In fact, he says this about Plan A:

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.


What Are Plan A and Plan B?

To negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover....

the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness...once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged...

In the negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed...the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended...

a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair...

None of these things is possible if there is "no affair talk". Dr Harley makes it clear that Plan A is a time for negotiation, and I cannot see how negotiation can be possible if there is "no affair talk". I have never seen Dr Harley use the phrase "no affair talk", or anything similar.
Posted By: Mememe Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 04:01 PM
So if that is the what, how do you do that? What kind of things would you say? I am in a similar position to Yeg, ww recommitted to om after exposure three weeks ago. Still very angry and no agreement to NC.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 04:11 PM
Meme,

Have you read Dr H's question and answer columns? He lays out a number of scenarios for dealing with WHs and (separately) for dealing with WWs.

He does not give you precise lines to speak, but he gives a general picture of what should be done in Plan A, which is to be thoughtful and considerate, but to let the WW know that you want the affair to end (with complete NC, and a job change or house move if necessary), and that you will not put up with the situation for long.

You can "negotiate" her ending the affair. The only thing Dr H says you must not do is commit the LBs of disrepectful judgements, angry outburst etc. And whilst selfish demands are another kind of LB, Dr Harley says that demanding an end to infidelity is not a LB. It is the only way for the marriage to survive.
Posted By: markos Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
YEG, when folks say "no relationship talk" that DOES NOT MEAN you dont' ask questions about the affair and tell her how devastated you are. It does not mean you don't DEMAND that she end all contact with the OM.

Frankly, I don't really know what it means when someone says "no relationship talk" so perhaps someone could explain it to me..

My understanding is it means you get answers to your questions early on and then stay away from it because dwelling on mistakes of the past or present is an enemy of good conversation.

It sure doesn't mean you tolerate the affair.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by markos
My understanding is it means you get answers to your questions early on and then stay away from it because dwelling on mistakes of the past or present is an enemy of good conversation.

It sure doesn't mean you tolerate the affair.
markos, how does that fit with Dr Harley's words about "negotiating" the end of the affair?

Dr H does say somewhere that once the affair details are out, the affair should not be brought up again, but my understanding is that he is talking about RECOVERY. (I am at work now and cannot look up the details.) About Plan A, he clearly talks about "negotiation".

I don't think that successful negotiation will take place if the BS brings up the ongoing affair every day. However, I think that a spouse could bring up the need to change jobs or whatever at the beginning, and then raise it again after a week. Dr Harley says in one of his Q&As that the BS should let the WS know "from time to time" that the couple needs to move away, and they would like that to happen so that the couple can recover. If the WS stalls this beyond a reasonable length of time for Plan A, then plan B is in order.

The alternative would be for the BS to ask for a move or job change early on, and then never mention the affair again and suddenly move out. Dr Harley does not recommend this; he says to "negotiate" NC for a fixed time.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 04:46 PM
This is where Dr H suggests occasional mentions of moving away. In this case, the BW believes that the affair is over, but Dr Harley warns her that her H and OW are still seeing each other, and that recovery is impossible while they still work together:

The first step is to be the very best wife you can possibly be. Do everything you can to meet his needs, and don't do anything to upset him. Set a period of time that you think you can do this without getting too upset, say, six months. Once in a while, tell him that you think both of you need a fresh start somewhere else.

If he does not respond to your kindness and respectful suggestions within that period of time you're ready for the second step: pack up yourself and your children and move near your family and friends for their support. It should be far away from his lover -- another city or even another state. Have absolutely nothing to do with him. Don't talk to him, don't see him.


What To Do With an Unfaithful Husband: Letter no.3

Dr H has amended his advice for 6 months to only 3-4 weeks for a wife. MelodyLane has the email advice he gave on the private weekend forum.
Posted By: Mememe Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 04:53 PM
Is that 3-4 weeks for a WW or for the BW to wait?
What about husbands?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 05:18 PM
3-4 weeks for a BW to be in Plan A.

As far as I know, he has not changed his advice for men in Plan A.

Meme, have you read the Q&As?
Posted By: Mememe Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/14/10 10:10 PM
Yes, I have read the Q&As but not the ones about WH.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/15/10 11:44 AM
Update from last night

Ended up taking a half day of work off. I brought lunch home and she was very thankful. She was still off emotionally yesterday. I took DD4 for my M house and spent the afternoon alone with the WW. Pretty non eventful she did give me a hug at one point though. We watched a movie and then I went running.

WW fixed a very nice dinner and I thanked her emphatically. I put DD4 to bed and we watched a show or so and then we watched an old black and white movie. I was doing household chores at the same time.

During the movie she stopped and asked me, "Why are you doing this?" I asked her what she meant and she said, "After what I said the other night (She was seriously considering leaving) why are you doing this?"

I told her, "Because I love you and I want to be a better person." She told me she knew how much I loved her and we shared a little hug.

She also let a couple things slip about the breakdown the night before. She said, "I havent dealt with losing my job, I really havent dealt with this (meaning the M on the rocks)" I just told her I was here for her if she wanted to talk.

She also told me she really appreciated me just holding her the night before. She said it was really nice.

She almost broke down again during dinner but was able to keep her composure.

Rest of movie watching was uneventful. Though she did let me curl up behind her while we watched the movie a bit. When the movie was over she retired to her private quarters and I went to bed for the night. I had placed a rose on her pillow from the garden (I grow about 200 different rose types). So she found that after I had gone. Hopefully she just didnt flop into bed on it.

Think she has pretty much maxed out her cards now. I think her one account is empty and she is down her last bank account. She has like 1300 dollars in it but still has to pay bills. So that will be gone in about a month im thinking. Then she will be flat broke and totally dependent on me for cash. That should end the "moving out" talk.

Pretty sure she is going out tonight with friends. Im going to do alot more due diligence checking up than I did before. Should be able to figure out with who.

No relationship talk really. Didnt get into her problems. I was just a ear if she wanted it. Im also keeping my expectations close to nil. It hurts seeing her close the door every night but there is nothing I can do about that. She has the fence post firmly planted up her A55 at the moment.

As always any interpretation on her thoughts last night is welcome.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/16/10 12:23 AM
Not much to update tonight.

She wanted alone time so I left her at the house (Monitoring is in effect) and took DD4 to eat with my grandmother. Though she needs this alone time to work on her problems all i can see her doing is watching movies and lifetime shows. Same old same old.

One of the local resteraunts is having a benifit for the oil spill cleanup. I invited her to it but she declined. Also reminded her out anniversary is next week. Im trying to find some black tie charity event so we can do some dinner and dancing. She LOVES getting all dresed up and playing the role of a socialite. Other options are trying to find a show or really nice resteraunt to go to.

I went in today and checked the side of her face for scratches. She asked me why. I said I was wondering if the rose I set on her pillow last night got her. She apparently really liked it because she started smiling and blushing.

She is starting to push back a little on the domestic support im providing. She is starting to feel bad because im doing all the dishes and laundry and vaccuming. So she wont let me take her plate into the kitchen. No big deal. Im still offering.

Th BIG news is I have my second apointment with Steve on Friday. The WW said she is considering talking to him. Thats better than the "absolutely not" that i was getting before. It will depend how she is feeling that day. If she talks to him it will be out of guilt but thats fine. She knows how much I want the M to work and how hard im trying. She thought id just quit after she told me she was seriously considering moving out the other day. When i didnt it threw her off. If she doesnt want to talk with him yet ill just use the appointment to talk about plan A stuff. Get some more tips on what I can do just at home.

Except asking her to talk to Steve no relationship talk. Its pointless anyways. I would rather not know anything than here the "I might move out" junk.

Wife hasnt left the house in 2 days. She is just sitting around. Im trying to get her out but she doesnt wanna go. So I spend time with her as best I can
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/16/10 05:07 PM
Noon update

WW is very depressed today. Called her on the phone and she was just down in the dumps. She didnt seem upset with me just sad.

I brought up our anniversary. I had been brainstorming on it all morning. I came up with a great plan. I was going to fly her up to atlantic city for a meatloaf concert and spend all weekend with her on the boardwalk. She said, "Thank you for the offer but no thanks."

I think the cash crunch may be biting her. She has a bit of money left but she is running out fast. Thats seriously cramping her style. I think the impact of losing her job and ruining her M is finally biting her. Not enough to give it another try but enough to make her sad. Definatly not enough to knock her off the fence.

I called her dad. I left him a message that she was really down in the dumps. Maybe he can do something for her. Gonna call her best friend as well. Maybe she can take her out.

Not sure how this impacts the M. I think she is just upset at herself in general and she has no idea how to get out.

My plan is to continue PA. She isnt going anywhere. I gotta trust that time will allow my love for her to pull her out. Really hope steve has some good advice on friday. I need some hope from somewhere. I really hope she will talk to him too. Even if its just to get him off my back the chatting to steve may help her.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/16/10 07:51 PM
Lawyer just called. She is making sure that I wanted to postpone the temp hearing still. She is concerned about me losing my bar to alimony.

Asked me what the status of reconciliation was. Stuff like that.

One thing the WW has never done is tell me she wanted a divorce. I dont wanna make it easier for her. She should be tortured with my company much the same way yall are tortured with my blogish updates.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/16/10 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
She should be tortured with my company much the same way yall are tortured with my blogish updates.

Hee Hee
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 12:35 PM
Pathetic outing last night

Once again my emotions got the better of me. Go ahead and post it. I know im supposed to be strong. That needy is weak. That crying is pathetic and it just pushes her away. I got it.

In the end im a person though. Just because Im a guy it doesnt mean I dont have feelings. I have needs. Just like she wants someone to hold her when she needs it so do I. Im a good guy and I didnt ask for any of this. I didnt invite this evil into my M. Im just the guy thats fighting for my wife and trying to save his family.

Bleh. So I go running and stuff yesterday afternoon. When im done I head home. DD5 (happy birthday) is at my parents house so its just me and her. She is still in her funk. One of her favorite uncles died the other day. That plus the pressure of her failing M and losing her job is getting to her I think. She is back tot he one word answers to everything. Im fine. The day was good. Drivel like that.

I go to load up the dishwasher and she stops me. No big deal. I start clothes in the washer. Nope cant do that either. She is basically just pushing back on all the things im doing to just be kind to her. We start talking about DD5 party today. She still is avoiding my family. She wants hers to come over though. This is really annoying me.

So all this stuff just starts adding up.Im getting more and more upset. I feel myself breaking down so I go to the stairs and take a break. I try to walk it off. Im trying to avoid the breakdown. She comes back in the room and starts the show. She isnt being mad at me or mean to me. Just distant.

In retrospect I cant even remember what triggered be but I started crying. I immediatly went upstairs to the bedroom and started sobbing my brains out. I was praying for help and strength and just pathetic. She slipped in and I didnt even notice till she said she couldnt tell if I was talking to her or not.

At this point I got up and just sat with her. We talked a bit on the floor. I basically just said how hurtful this was and how hellish being apart from her was. Im trying to win her back and help her find happiness again. Yet Im getting hobbled at every turn. She wont allow me to schedule dates with her anymore. She always has other plans. She wont go on trips with me. Thats her favorite thing to do and I cant meet that need. She thinks Im trying to buy her back. So not what im doing.

She gets frustrated and walks out. What kills me is that all I want is the same comforting she does. She gets upset and starts F*&&ing another man when I dont do it. Here I am emotionally devastated because of her selfish actions and she just looks at me and says she hates this hell we are living in that SHE created and she doesnt know if we can make it.

I just want to scream.

DD5 gets back home and we run to the store. We come back and she watches a movie. WW and me finish our show. Knowing that im in a very needy mood I tell her im going to leave for a bit. She tells me if thas what I want go ahead. SHe looks so hurt though. So I stay because I really just want to be with her. She allows me to lay besides her on the couch. It makes me a feel a bit better. She even put her hand on me for a moment. When she did I looked back and just said thank you.

After the show was over she announces that she is going on the treadmill. I ask her if I can stay with her. I just want to sleep in the same bed as my wife. She says she would prefer me not to. I knew it wasn't going to happen but I was already pathetic so who cares.

She heads upstairs and I start balling again downstairs. Just laying on the floor being pathetic and tearing all over the place.

I head upstairs to say goodnight to DD5. I tell WW by. She is running on the treadmill. I tell her good night and she calls me back several times. She tells me she is sorry for tonight. Not sure what she means. I apologized for my behavior as well. DD5 can tell im upset and gives me a big hug. She doesnt want me to leave. I tell her I have to and I leave crying.

That concludes my patheticness for the night. I get in a fight with my mother about DD5s birthday. Weee everyone is pissed at me. FML.

I just go to bed and text the WW nite. She actually texts me back. "gnite BS. I am sorry"

I respond "I just love you so much. I feel like part of me is gone"

Her reply "I know"

At this point sleep finally takes me and mercifully puts me out of my misery.

What did I learn? Nothing. I learned I cant contain my emotions. I am a pathetic human being. I learned that im despicable and unlovable. Ive been a doormat all my life and every girlfriend I ever had ended up cheating on me and leaving. Why should my WW be any different.

At least I didnt get angry and love bust. Yea! <Fist Pump>

Im tired. I get up for work every day at 530 am. I work till 530PM and do the 40 min drive home. Its 630 before I get home from running. I end up staying up late till 10 or 11 every night. Im mentally, physically and emotionally exhausted. I still love my WW very much but its so hard doing this. I do believe im getting returns out of my PA. I also want to keep in PA till the OM leaves the country. I feel I have a decent chance if I go to PB and he isnt around.

My eyes feel like they are going to just fall out. I cant study for crap. Only reason I am still passing tests is because I worked hard preparing for this class.

I know why im doing this. I know who im doing it for. I love my WW despite how much she hurts me. Im just tired. I just need some sort of break.

Maybe Ill borrow the cabin keys from my FIL and just do a prayer retreat to the Mountains. Maybe Ill just drive somewhere and sleep in a hotel for a couple of days. Just check out of my life for a weekend.

This is the hardest thing Ive ever done. Its even worse because all this could be for nothing.

Sorry for being a whiney B*)$# today. I just feel horrible. I want to throw myself in front of a tour bus.

Feel free to dogpile me for the 180 breaking down. I deserve it. I tried to do the right thing but failed like everything else in my crap life.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 02:46 PM
Sometimes I really hate my WW.

She is mad because I had the gall to invite my family to my daughters birthday party. She doesnt care about anything Im doing for her. She is just a cold woman.

I sometimes wonder why I even bother trying.

Im not giving up just she could have an ounce of gratitude about some of the stuff I do for her. Im the only income this family has. Im paying for her car, her car insurance, electricity, 2 mortgages, water, sewer, trash and most of the meals.

She is still paying for the cell phones, cable and internet. Thats until the savings runs out. Then ill be paying that too. along with her credit card debt (about 11,000 bucks worth). Thats more than I have after spending 8000 on a lawyer and PI.

She cant even be nice to me on the phone. She is just such a greedy person. She always said its all about her. I guess I should have listened harder.

I need to get away from this nightmare.

Somebody just say something.

Im not quitting. Im not going pb. Im just going out of my mind.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Sometimes I really hate my WW.

She is mad because I had the gall to invite my family to my daughters birthday party. She doesnt care about anything Im doing for her. She is just a cold woman.

Do not allow her to make you feel bad for involving your family in your dd's party.

It is no wonder you feel hate for her right now. It would be ABnormal for you to not feel hate toward someone who has betrayed you for so many years of your marriage. You haven't been in PA for very long. Please calm down and STOP having expectations. Have you read SOL's thread? He has done an unbelievable PA for over 6 months (granted much of that time he has been away for training)...and his attitude is amazing. He is calm, kind, polite...yet not desperate acting or needy (to his WW). He vents here of course...he has needs, he is sad that his WW has not responded better to his PA...but he is doing what he has to do to take care of himself.

Take away point YEG: STOP having expectations.

Originally Posted by YEG
Im not giving up just she could have an ounce of gratitude about some of the stuff I do for her. Im the only income this family has. Im paying for her car, her car insurance, electricity, 2 mortgages, water, sewer, trash and most of the meals.

She is still paying for the cell phones, cable and internet. Thats until the savings runs out. Then ill be paying that too. along with her credit card debt (about 11,000 bucks worth). Thats more than I have after spending 8000 on a lawyer and PI.

She cant even be nice to me on the phone. She is just such a greedy person. She always said its all about her. I guess I should have listened harder.

I need to get away from this nightmare.

Somebody just say something.

Im not quitting. Im not going pb. Im just going out of my mind.

I don't think it is time for PB yet. You just have to calm down and stop expecting anything from her. Stop being upset at her for her selfish attitude...calmly tell her your family WILL be invited and if she doesn't want to be around them then SHE can skip the party.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 03:54 PM
hey, YEG. i hate your situation and i'm sorry your wife is being so impossible. i always follow your posts but seldom have any words of wisdom, because you're already doing the right thing.

please don't feel like a whiny b**** for having human emotions. you have been the strong one through all this, you're the one with a solid game plan and the fortitude to stick to it, and you're fighting for your marriage because she isn't strong enough to do so. you've displayed patience and consideration for your wife that must take a superhuman effort.

let me remind you of what you're doing right: you don't lash out at her. you don't threaten her. you guard yourself against "LBing". you put roses on her ever-lovin PILLOW, for crying out loud.

you know that any perceived neediness pushes her away, and you've been mindful of that. but squelching a legitimate emotion and feeling like a jerk because you haven't successfully stifled an aspect of your personality?? oh HELL no. don't let anyone, including yourself, tell you it's weak or pathetic to cry over this. let me also note here that you WEREN'T seeking pity and comfort from her, she came to you.

from reading your posts re your own situation, and from reading advice and encouragement you've given other betrayed husbands, let me remind you that not only are the strong one in your marriage, you're emotionally strong in general. it takes a lot of strength to even be civil to a WW, let alone rally up and make an effort to be loving.

take care of yourself, YEG. you've got lots of people praying for you.

p.s. my husband got curious about MB, figured out who i was, and has read ALLLL my posts. he read a lot of BH stuff too, and he says you're one of the toughest guys on here and that you're handling your situation ADMIRABLY. he's an ex-Marine AND a Texan and doesn't dole out compliments liberally, so take it to heart.
Posted By: Mememe Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 04:03 PM
Don't be so hard on yourself Yeg, you are doing a great job. You've got a call with SH. He will no doubt give you more strength and help tighten up your Plan A. Have you read Mark's musings?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 04:19 PM
Quote
Take away point YEG: STOP having expectations.

I just wish it was that easy. I wish there was a turn off my feelings pushbutton. I know when its coming too. I can feel it building up over the course of the week. Eventually something sets me off then it all floods out.

Quote
hey, YEG. i hate your situation and i'm sorry your wife is being so impossible. i always follow your posts but seldom have any words of wisdom, because you're already doing the right thing.
I appreciate you following. I know I do the right thing most the time. I know what the books say. I do my research. Its just really hard to put it into practice. She checked out years ago. So its easy for her to turn off her emotions. She percieves she has unlimited time so she just wants to wait from a sign from somewhere. Its not like she is really working through anything. She is just sitting at home and wasting time. Avoiding her problems.

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please don't feel like a whiny b**** for having human emotions. you have been the strong one through all this, you're the one with a solid game plan and the fortitude to stick to it, and you're fighting for your marriage because she isn't strong enough to do so. you've displayed patience and consideration for your wife that must take a superhuman effort.

She COULD have done it. She was too chicken to tell me her feelings, wants and needs. Instead she choose to have an A. Now instead of woMANing up and joining the M again she is just avoiding everything.

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but squelching a legitimate emotion and feeling like a jerk because you haven't successfully stifled an aspect of your personality?? oh HELL no. don't let anyone, including yourself, tell you it's weak or pathetic to cry over this.
It is what it is. I want to be the strong man. I want to sweep her back off her feet with my charm again. At the same time though I want her to be there sorta for me. I know im wrong for wanting that. Its just my taker talking.

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let me also note here that you WEREN'T seeking pity and comfort from her, she came to you.
No but I wanted her there. I want her to hold me and tell me its going to be ok and we can work through this. She just refuses to. It makes me feel worthless. Like my love for her and the years of taking care of her while she was catting around mean nothing to her. The fact Im STILL HERE after her betrayal means nothing to her. There is no way I could treat anyone like she treats me. Its cruel that the person I love the most in this world treats me so bad.

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take care of yourself, YEG. you've got lots of people praying for you

I appreciate it.

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my husband got curious about MB, figured out who i was, and has read ALLLL my posts. he read a lot of BH stuff too, and he says you're one of the toughest guys on here and that you're handling your situation ADMIRABLY. he's an ex-Marine AND a Texan and doesn't dole out compliments liberally, so take it to heart.
Tell him thanks. I was only a submariner but I did stop in texas for a layover a couple of time and I appreciate it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 04:20 PM
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Don't be so hard on yourself Yeg, you are doing a great job. You've got a call with SH. He will no doubt give you more strength and help tighten up your Plan A. Have you read Mark's musings?

Ill check it out tonite. Got a Drs appointment and DD5 birthday party today. Thanks for the encouragement. Time to put on my big boy pants now.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 04:22 PM
YEG, i'm almost glad to see you angry. venting to us beats the heck out of snapping on her and undoing everything you've been working for.

let me put this in perspective: you've deliberately put your expectations on hold for a looong time. you've indulged her all-about-me attitude in an effort not to push her away. you've been solid in your Plan A.

look, you didn't marry a cold, unpleasant, selfish woman. yes, she's BEING cold, selfish, hideously unpleasant, and generally despicable. she's BEING totally unloveable...BUT YOU LOVE HER.

in this situation, it is NOT about her. IT'S...YOUR...KID'S...BIRTHDAY.

your proposed response goes a little something like this:
"i'm sorry you feel that way, but i don't feel like it would be fair to DD5 to tell her that grandma and grandpa can't come to her party because mommy doesn't want to see them. i hope you'll still be willing to attend, because it would be even harder to explain why mommy isn't coming to her party."

she may be a dreadful wife right now, but WWs don't lose their maternal instincts. no WAY she'll make her daughter sad on her birthday because she didn't get her way.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 07:58 PM
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she may be a dreadful wife right now, but WWs don't lose their maternal instincts. no WAY she'll make her daughter sad on her birthday because she didn't get her way.

She wont. She will go. I just REALLY need a break from her atm. Im going to take that this weekend. I dont care as long as she isnt there. Then again if she actually wanted to come with me id take her in a second. Ain't love grand.
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she may be a dreadful wife right now, but WWs don't lose their maternal instincts. no WAY she'll make her daughter sad on her birthday because she didn't get her way.

Seriously? I mean....seriously?

You are gonna have to change your name to RemainClueless if you truly believe that one.

Anyone that has been around these parts any length of time KNOWS that is not true.

Selfish is the waywards middle name.

committed
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/17/10 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by committedandlovi
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she may be a dreadful wife right now, but WWs don't lose their maternal instincts. no WAY she'll make her daughter sad on her birthday because she didn't get her way.

Seriously? I mean....seriously?

You are gonna have to change your name to RemainClueless if you truly believe that one.

Anyone that has been around these parts any length of time KNOWS that is not true.

Selfish is the waywards middle name.

committed

committed, i'm not denying that WWs become sociopathically egocentric, but we don't necessarily lose all traces of conscience. if that were true, we might be looking at a new Twinkie Defense: a pathological justification for bad behavior.


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committed, i'm not denying that WWs become sociopathically egocentric, but we don't necessarily lose all traces of conscience. if that were true, we might be looking at a new Twinkie Defense: a pathological justification for bad behavior.


RemainNameless,

The great majority of them do lose all traces of conscience...unfortunately. Children are totally forgotten in the quest for the affair.

The reason the "twinkie" defense isn't being used, is because waywards aren't being brought up on charges.

I would bet that a poll would show that the WS put the children's needs after their own need to pursue an affair.

Naturally, the WS would say that it didn't happen...while the BS would most assuredly KNOW that it happened.

committed
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/18/10 01:50 AM
Maybe we need to link RN to AB3's story.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/18/10 01:43 PM
Mixed Bag

DD5s party went well. WW did come. So did my family. Shocker everyone was well behaved. I dont know what she is thinking. Its not like people are going to attack her at a kids party.

I ALMOST got her to talk to steve. I was a hair away. She put it off to the VERY last minute. I called her at 1130 at night to see if she was going to.

She told me, "You know if I talk to this guy that doesnt mean im not going to leave."

I said I understood.

"Do you reallY?" was her answer.

She then sat on the phone for about 30 seconds. THen she finally decided she wasnt ready yet. I said OK.

I had my appointment with steve though. I went OK. Really not much we can do till WW calls him. We refined my PA a bit. My script to get WW to talk to him. He asked me if the relationship had just gone back underground. Said not that I can confirm.

We talked a bit about my energy level and possible plan B situation. Didnt focus on that since I still have alot of good PA in me.

We talked about the court case. None of her options to leave are good. So he doesnt think there is much risk about letting the case drop. If the OM was going to be in the picture more or she had a substantial income it would be another story.

Im doing the right stuff and I understand the MB concepts well. He is stressing that I keep pushing the education aspect.
I am to push the point that we need a plan to see things get better. That he can give us that plan. He also said it doesnt matter how WW comes to him. It just matters that she comes. He can deal with the "Im just here being a martyr for my husband and kid" situation.

Im definatly getting out of town this weekend. WW may actually go with me. Once she found out I was leaving she started getting interested. If she doesnt thats fine. Ill come back with more energy for my PA.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/18/10 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Maybe we need to link RN to AB3's story.
please do! AB3 full name, searchable?
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/18/10 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Mixed Bag

Im definatly getting out of town this weekend. WW may actually go with me. Once she found out I was leaving she started getting interested. If she doesnt thats fine. Ill come back with more energy for my PA.

good call. i know everyone's been telling you, "do something for yourself, YEG...go relax...take a break..." etc.

but everyone has their own internal thresholds that delineate how long you can tolerate a given situation, and your threshold is pretty high. i hasten to point out that this is not the characteristic of a doormat, but of a stoic.

sounds like WW is intrigued--maybe she'll come along...sounds like you're prepared to enjoy it either way!
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/18/10 07:01 PM
Ab3s Thread

His wife...well, it's a 70ish page thread. But you'll see.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 02:48 AM
Weekend update.

She did not go out of town with me this weekend. Not shocked really. She said she was almost out of money and couldnt afford to go. Not like I was going to have her pay for anything anyways.

What did she do instead? She went shopping. Typical.

Going to be completely honest with yall. Over the last few weeks my wife seems to have regressed. She isnt letting me do alot of stuff for her anymore. I think she feels guilty. I also think she is training herself to move out. Learn to be independent and that garbage.

I think her moving out at this point is very likely. I think she has it in her head that leaving the marriage is the only way she can be happy. So I think she is pretty much gone. She is trying to be polite when I do stuff for her.

Ive been talking it over with the FIL. He knows my position if she moves out. Ive asked him not to support her as well. I know he wont let her go hungry but I dont want him to support her living apart either. He told me to cut her off completely so Ill do just that. I pray for him nightly. He will be a huge ally in PB for me I hope.

im pretty set up for my PB. It would actually be better if she left in the next few weeks. I wouldnt have to refile a D complaint. I would just amend it for the custody changes. Just going to let the lawyer go at her a little for the temp hearing. Then ill get the OM in for a deposition ASAP so I can stare him down and make his life hell a few hours before he skampers off to europe. Then Ill put the brakes on the process. Ill make a last good bye letter to his command again to make sure he is afraid to death to contact her with her "new freedom".

From that point should be pretty typical PB. Sit on my hands, take care of DD5 and wait for WW to get tired of being destitute and living with her parents. Pretty rough landing for her. Together we make 150k last year. She will have to live in the little child support she will get from me. Probably about 600 a month. Thats assuming I dont get full custody and she owes ME. She went from a 50k a year job to nothing.

I love her and hope Im wrong but I just see the writing on the wall. For the time being im just continueing plan A and playing out the string. On the way back from my vacation I bought her a jar of mango sauce and her favorite cheesecake from cheesecake factory. She said thank you.

She was pissed at me though. DD5 was crying because mommy wouldnt come home. So I let DD5 call her. Mommy got mad at me because I didnt want to talk to her. Just didnt have anything to say to her. She then sorta eluded to the fact that I was making DD5 upset. I wanted to slap her through the phone. She has the A. She needs this time alone to "think if she wants to stay married". That effects both me AND DD5. Its my fault though.

Should be a lovely fathers day. Be nice to find your wife is tapping out of the M on father day.

Have a lovely weekend all. Going to clean the house for my latest PA event.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 03:30 AM
WSs absolutely believe that it must be us BSs that are MAKING the kids feel this. We know what the truth is, it is just too hard for them.

Keep to your Plan and you will come out on the other end okay.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 03:57 AM
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Keep to your Plan and you will come out on the other end okay.
Its all I got at this point. Of course that makes me light years away of my WW who has no idea what she wants.

edit- She actually responded to my goodnight text. I cant believe it.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 04:00 AM
Happy Father's Day, YEG.

i hate how this is playing out--sometimes i wish i could talk to your wife.

i forget--do you have a definite date on which to put plan B into effect? or is it contingent upon her? like, does she need to either recommit or move out by x date, or does plan a continue indefinitely unless she makes her decision by contacting OM?

if there's a set date, is she aware of it? is she maybe freaking out as this date approaches? (sorry to ask for info that's probably remedial.)

sure you recognize that you're extremely fortunate to have your FIL as an ally--do you realize the import here? Daddy's little girl is NEVER wrong, ALWAYS the princess. FIL must recognize you as a really, REALLY worthy husband.

again, i really hope you do have a great father's day--enjoy your daughter--you're doing a wonderful job of protecting her from the drama and keeping the family strong. you're doing a wonderful job across the board, in fact, and i hope sincerely that your wife will give herself back to you and stop making you sad. i'm speaking for everyone reading this: we all want you two to be happy together.

me and H are praying for your family.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 04:18 AM
RN, The BS doesn't tell the WS that he/she is going to go into Plan B. It is about Plan A until the last second before PLan B. Plan B is like a "Shock and AWE."

Also, a BS is not advised to give an ultimatum. A BS WOULD make DEMANDS that the affair STOP. Sometimes even letting the WS know that if the affair doesn't stop, that D will be the outcome. This is one of the ONLY times that DrH advises DEMANDS in marriage.

If the WS knew about Plan B before it's commencement, it would dilute it's effectiveness.

Have you read all of the material on this site? Have you read SAA? There is a lot of discussion about Plan A and Plan B. laugh
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 04:39 AM
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RN, The BS doesn't tell the WS that he/she is going to go into Plan B. It is about Plan A until the last second before PLan B. Plan B is like a "Shock and AWE."

Also, a BS is not advised to give an ultimatum. A BS WOULD make DEMANDS that the affair STOP. Sometimes even letting the WS know that if the affair doesn't stop, that D will be the outcome. This is one of the ONLY times that DrH advises DEMANDS in marriage.

If the WS knew about Plan B before it's commencement, it would dilute it's effectiveness.

pretty much what scotland said.

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Happy Father's Day, YEG.

Thanks. DD5 already leaked that they got me a shirt. So I will get something THIS fathers day. Didnt get anything last year. She said she had something special for me planned had to wait. After I complained 2 weeks later she got me a best buy gift card. Of course she was in the middle of her PA at that point. But I digress.

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i hate how this is playing out--sometimes i wish i could talk to your wife.
Wouldnt help. She is a "hard sell" thats the words she used the latest time I tried to get her to call Steve Harley. He thinks its amusing that she wants to make a decision first WITHOUT outside influence. To him thats like BUYING a car first and THEN looking up all the information on it. Its flawed logic.

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i forget--do you have a definite date on which to put plan B into effect? or is it contingent upon her? like, does she need to either recommit or move out by x date, or does plan a continue indefinitely unless she makes her decision by contacting OM?

Is there a plan A end date? There has to be. Its roughly 6 months after the start of PA or till my LB$ reaches critical levels. Steve is helping me keep track of that. Since the WW A is either so deep underground I cant see it or she called it off for now she is draining the bank too quickly. Its not like she is calling him from our home phone in front of me.

If i go PB now its because she FORCED me to by moving out,

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if there's a set date, is she aware of it? is she maybe freaking out as this date approaches? (sorry to ask for info that's probably remedial.)

Nope doesnt know it. She KNEW I had divorce papers filed. Didnt bother her really that she could have been divorced in 3 months with nothing. She didnt even get a lawyer. She should have been served last week with a temp hearing date of June 22nd. Thats not happening though. I dont wanna send mixed signals. If she moves out ill be able to catch her soon enough again so I can re-establish my grounds pretty quickly. Not really concerned if the complaint gets dropped. Not like I want a D anyway.

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sure you recognize that you're extremely fortunate to have your FIL as an ally--do you realize the import here? Daddy's little girl is NEVER wrong, ALWAYS the princess. FIL must recognize you as a really, REALLY worthy husband.
Hes a good man. Sad think is he has 2 daughters. BOTH have cheated on their husbands. He got the other daughter to move back to her husband and they are relatively happy now. Ive confided in him for years the concern about my M. He knows I was trying. He NEVER even suspected an A. Neither of us did. He knows we have a kid together (obviously) and is concerned about DD5. The thought of WW running off to Europe with the OM has him concerned too. I dont thinkhe really wants to take over all her credit cards and debts too taht she will get stuck with. She has no job and very little prospects since the field she worked in she cant do anymore do to the conditions she got fired under. She basically lost her clearance and no govt agency will take her now. Its really sad.

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you're doing a wonderful job across the board, in fact, and i hope sincerely that your wife will give herself back to you and stop making you sad. i'm speaking for everyone reading this: we all want you two to be happy together.
I appreciate it. Im trying to keep my head up. Its getting easier the more she withdraws ironically. That drains the LB$ and makes me less apt to be needy since her acts disgust me so. After the nights that she is distant its easy to see her go. Its those nights where we bond that it sucks.

I want us to be happy together too. It was easy for me to make my changes since I wanted her so much. Its hard seeing her to drag her feet since it comes across as her just not caring about me. In the end though ill be ok either way. Im a young guy with a great job in a field thats exploding with opportunities. Ive learned alot from this experience and me fixing my problems will carry over to the next relationship. I hope thats with the WW but if its not then Ill get by. Only thing that sucks is buying so many new clothes. Ive dropped 4 inches off my waist so the suits I bought just a month ago Ive already had to get altered.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 04:56 AM
scotland, i thought i had read everything--i thought plan A is generally advised for 6 months max, w/ the understanding that plan B goes into immediate effect if WS fails to honor NC agreement. does WS share that understanding?? i had always assumed so--that's what one gets for assuming, huh?

i didn't know if WS would be advised of impending "deadline", whether BS would implement plan B whenever they reached their own personal threshold of tolerance, or whether BS would propose an internal PA goal and extend it/cut it short as WS's actions warranted.

so...it's arbitrary? bottom line, is the wayward spouse SUPPOSED to be aware that they have a finite timeframe in which they can decide to step up or step out?

this is fundamental, and i've totally misunderstood it. i have a solid grasp on what the intentions and goals of PA and PB entail, but i totally missed the basics: let me get this straight, WSs have no externally imposed ultimatum?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 11:50 AM
Sorry that I haven't posted lately. I just got back from Ireland last night. I know you are hurting. I really think you have done a great job of plan A. However, I think you should start planning for plan B. Maybe not yet, but I might not let the divorce drop. I might let it go on and get everything set up for plan B. Afraid you seem like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth? Don't worry about it. She has been using you for quite some time.

She has basically moved out already which will hurt her custody case. It doesn't matter as much about her being in the house during the day, but rather where the overnights are. That is how they determine custody. She has basically given you custody and you don't have to worry about spousal support. Your WW is broke, so let her feel the pain of leaving you. Once you get this all settled, then I would go to plan B. You have done a good plan A, and the consequences of divorce will hit her hard. When is OM going to Europe? He might not even be an option at that point. Either way, your WW can't go because she has a kid and can't leave the state.

Why does she not have a job yet? Is she even looking? Who cares that she can't get one in "her field." Go get a job at Walmart or Starbucks. Beggars can't be choosey. There isn't any job "beneath you" if you don't currently have one. It's all up from unemployed.

I think the simple fact of the matter is you need to make the best decisions for your life right now. That means protecting your assets and custodial rights while fighting for your marriage. Remember, not all marriages should be saved. Your mistake may have been marrying this woman and having children with her in the first place. Not all women are marriage material. You do a thorough plan A and possibly plan B to find that out.

Let me share something with you that I don't generally get into on the board. Yes, I ended my WW's affair and get her "committed" to the marriage. But looking back, I probably shouldn't have married her or even tried to save my marriage. My WW never committed to MB and is an obsessive control freak who wants to do things her way. She has a long list of compulsions and anxieties and my feelings and needs continue to get overlooked. I just got back from a 10 day vacation with her in Ireland and I'm seriously debating whether or not I should divorce her. I mean it is my vacation, and I couldn't stand her after 10 whole days together. She's like Kate Gosselin if you get my reference, and I don't want to involve children in it or go off and act like a douche (Jon Gosselin) later.

Bottom line is, I was once a very needy, emotional mess like you during my WW's affair. You do the plan A and possibly plan B to see if the marriage is actually worth saving, and then you need to not accept anything less than what you expect out of a marriage. Not all marriages should be saved. You will be better off as a result of the process, and whatever happens is for the best. You will grow and be a better man, and that is what you need to focus on, not things that you have no control over.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 12:39 PM
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Why does she not have a job yet? Is she even looking? Who cares that she can't get one in "her field." Go get a job at Walmart or Starbucks. Beggars can't be choosey. There isn't any job "beneath you" if you don't currently have one. It's all up from unemployed.
She is working part time for FIL. maybe 1 day a week. he is going to hire her permanently but its a huge downgrade from her old job. Right now she is just sitting around on facebook all day playing games avoiding problems.

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I think the simple fact of the matter is you need to make the best decisions for your life right now. That means protecting your assets and custodial rights while fighting for your marriage. Remember, not all marriages should be saved. Your mistake may have been marrying this woman and having children with her in the first place. Not all women are marriage material. You do a thorough plan A and possibly plan B to find that out.
I have thought about that. The what ifs. If she doesnt want to commit to the MB program. If she just drags back into the M because its the easy route. She has shown she is very prone to an A since she has been both the OW and the WW.

I guess the litmus test will be how she responds to Steve Harley. If she gets on board then I think we have a decent chance. If she refuses the program because its too hard....

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When is OM going to Europe? He might not even be an option at that point. Either way, your WW can't go because she has a kid and can't leave the state.
Not sure. Its supposedly soon. The FIL is trying to find out when he has orders cut. All indications are he is afraid to death of me causing more problems for him at work and loosing his retirement. 17 years in the Military is alot to throw away. Especially for a girl that already left him one time.

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But looking back, I probably shouldn't have married her or even tried to save my marriage. My WW never committed to MB and is an obsessive control freak who wants to do things her way. She has a long list of compulsions and anxieties and my feelings and needs continue to get overlooked. I just got back from a 10 day vacation with her in Ireland and I'm seriously debating whether or not I should divorce her. I mean it is my vacation, and I couldn't stand her after 10 whole days together. She's like Kate Gosselin if you get my reference, and I don't want to involve children in it or go off and act like a douche (Jon Gosselin) later.

I know what your saying. Im scared of recovery in alot of ways. My wife is an VERY private person and I think she is going to resist EPs alot. She has always said "Its all about me". I use to think that was a joke but anymore im not sure. I dont know if she will ever be truelly happy. She lost tons of her self esteem when she got fired from her dream job. Alot of her self worth came from that job. She isnt getting that same self worth from being a stay at home mom. She also gets a little upset at me as well. I operate a nuclear reactor with a high school education. She has a college degree and is in mensa and cant get a job right now.

To answer you earlier question she never looked for a job. When I confronted her about it she told me that she needed time to figure things out. She went to another town instead on a day trip. This was during the A and of course OM went with her. She was avoiding her problems and still is.

She is also very entitled. She is NOT a cheap date. She loves fine dining and the nicer things in life. She loves expensive paintings. When she worked I paid almost all of the bills. Now she isnt working and she is missing that stuff. If we stay together im going to have to tackle that sizable debt she built up. Not going to be a good time.

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Bottom line is, I was once a very needy, emotional mess like you during my WW's affair. You do the plan A and possibly plan B to see if the marriage is actually worth saving, and then you need to not accept anything less than what you expect out of a marriage. Not all marriages should be saved. You will be better off as a result of the process, and whatever happens is for the best. You will grow and be a better man, and that is what you need to focus on, not things that you have no control over.

Part of me hopes that she will leave. Then she can hit rock bottom and find out truelly what D would be like. I know there is life after this. If she recommits though we NEED a plan and I hope I can get her on the MB recovery bus.

I asked steve a question about what if she comes back reluctantly. He called that the Martyr mentality. The poor me im giving up my life and dreams for the greater good of the child and to take care of my husband. he needs me so.

Steve says that happens alot and he can work with it. Im really depending on him to try to reach her. Hopefully he can convince her that the program CAN work. Its possible she will get the holy spirit in her and commit like some of the other FWS on the board.

When things were going bad it was rough. When we went on trips together and had the massive deposits in the LB$ and TONS of UA time things got better. We didnt want to leave our little world on the cruise ship. Hopefully I can connect the 2 in her mind. That we can capture that. That it wasnt the location it was the UA time. With that much time together we can overflow the LB$. Thats my goal.

Its one of things I have to try in life. I have to try everything to save my M. If i dont ill never forgive myself. I just cant look in DD5s eyes and tell her daddy gave up on mommy. If she refuses to let me guide her back to the lighthouse then thats another story. I know you know what I mean.

Sorry the trip to ireland didnt go well. I know that expectations that arent met can be a HUGE drain on your LB$. I really hope you can turn the corner and salvage your M. Maybe a session or so with steve or jennifer could help? Maybe some professional councilling with a therapist for her other anxieties could help. My wife refuses to take antidepressants even though i think they would help her alot. I know the path your up against.

best of luck to you and look forward to chatting you up some more now you are back.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
...If she just drags back into the M because its the easy route...
If she refuses the program because its too hard....

Part of me hopes that she will leave. Then she can hit rock bottom and find out truelly what D would be like. I know there is life after this. If she recommits though we NEED a plan and I hope I can get her on the MB recovery bus.

I asked steve a question about what if she comes back reluctantly. He called that the Martyr mentality. The poor me im giving up my life and dreams for the greater good of the child and to take care of my husband. he needs me so.

Steve says that happens alot and he can work with it. Im really depending on him to try to reach her. Hopefully he can convince her that the program CAN work. Its possible she will get the holy spirit in her and commit like some of the other FWS on the board.

the martyr mentality--i though i was the originator of that term! YEG, i was the POSTER CHILD for the martyr mentality. look, here's something i posted forever ago on the other thread you had started:

Originally Posted by RemainNameless
i believe she has burned through her savings on purpose. on some strange level subconscious level that maybe only WWs possess, she knows that her mind is effed up and that she can't be trusted to do the right thing for you, for your child, or ultimately even for herself. maybe she knows that if she's financially independent, she will run away simply because because she can. she also knows rationally what a foolish and self-destructive decision that would be. so she's deliberately made herself dependent to stop herself from doing something dreadful. (on the con side, this tactic means she can still rationalize to herself that she WOULD leave, only she's "stuck".)


THIS PART'S IMPORTANT: if you DO go Plan B, and if she comes back penitent and remorseful and ready to commit fully, DON'T SECOND-GUESS HER MOTIVES. circumstances will tell you, "sure, she's had enough of being broke and she's groveling back because she depends on me. lucky me." in fact, though, just like the pain of physical exertion clears your head and allows you to see things for what they are? some people can't evoke that and use that as a tool. some people need to have painful circumstances "just happen" before they can see reality truly. it may be the jolt she needs to get her mind right.

here's another thought--she's an attractive, intelligent woman. she's in MENSA, for goodness sake. she's probably derived her confidence in the past from other peoples' perception of her. now she has every reason to feel like utter crap, she's probably avoiding Steve because she's convinced he's going to make her feel even worse, and she's face to face with the person who knows EXACTLY how far she's fallen and who has no reason to still love her, respect her, etc.

after my affair was really over, i wanted to disappear. i didn't want to run away w/ OM or anything, i just felt that i wasn't fit for human company. i wanted to become a hermit and go live in a cave in the woods until i could get my mind right. i fantasized about a separation NOT so i could prepare myself for a divorce, but because i wanted to go far away and come back a better, changed person who was WORTHY of my husband's love. it's damned hard to reinvent yourself when your BH is right there.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/20/10 11:01 PM
Quote
now she has every reason to feel like utter crap, she's probably avoiding Steve because she's convinced he's going to make her feel even worse, and she's face to face with the person who knows EXACTLY how far she's fallen and who has no reason to still love her, respect her, etc.
She doesnt want to give me false hope as well. She is ashamed about what she has done and her moral collapse. I have every reason to boot her out. She was never a dreamboat to live with. She never met all my needs (she use to meet enough though). Then she goes and has an A for her selfish reasons. She deserves to get thrown on her [censored] for her treachery.

She says she doesnt blame me being angry at her. I think she would LOVE for me to just get the D. Then she could be a real martyr and say how I booted her out. Never says the entire story of course.

Quote
after my affair was really over, i wanted to disappear. i didn't want to run away w/ OM or anything, i just felt that i wasn't fit for human company. i wanted to become a hermit and go live in a cave in the woods until i could get my mind right. i fantasized about a separation NOT so i could prepare myself for a divorce

I dont think she wants a D. She never once asked me for 1. She just expected it. Now she doesnt know what she wants. She spent SO damn long painting me as an ogre that she forgot im a decent guy at heart. The sad thing is she doesnt know that I can be an ogre. She will see some reprecussions if I enter PB.

Quote
but because i wanted to go far away and come back a better, changed person who was WORTHY of my husband's love. it's damned hard to reinvent yourself when your BH is right there.
I dont think thats it at all. Maybe in your case but I think she is being selfish and greedy and only cares about her own feelings. Thats the Wayward mentality. I dont think she will run off with the OM since he will be poison now. If she moves out she WILL get involved with someone though. Steve said serial cheaters do it because they have little control over thier emotions. They follow their heart no matter the cost. If its not this OM it will just be another. Especially if her needs arent getting met by anyone.

She WILL realize eventually that she misses me. I just hope its not too late.

I WILL NOT WAIT FOREVER FOR HER. There are plenty of other women that have been to the show. They want a professional man to take care of them and show them the love I can provide. In the 20s all women cares about was looks. In their 30s its all about security. I wont stay on the market long especially since im willing to work on a relationship.

While it will be pretty easy to find a suitable replacement for my WW it wont be easy for her to find someone that can be as good of a provider, father, and as understandable as im being. Cute divorced women are a dime a dozen. Men that can provide that security AND are willing to commit are NOT.

Im not a real believer in soulmates and the one true love thing. Dont get me wrong I love my wife. Im putting forth all this effort rearranging deck chairs on the titanic for her. I know the person she USE to be and want to see if I can be with HER again. I dont want to be with the women that raped me emotionally for years. That every time things get a little rough runs to an OM for a little sympathy. Im not a doormat anymore. I CAN DO BETTER. There is life after divorce. I want my old wife back or a new improved version. Not this wayward alien that made me feel worthless and unlovable.
Posted By: distanced Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/21/10 02:46 AM
yeg,
I read your thread and I agree with you.

Originally Posted by YEG
[quote]I WILL NOT WAIT FOREVER FOR HER.

...I know the person she USE to be and want to see if I can be with HER again. I dont want to be with the women that raped me emotionally for years. That every time things get a little rough runs to an OM for a little sympathy. Im not a doormat anymore. I CAN DO BETTER. There is life after divorce. I want my old wife back or a new improved version. Not this wayward alien that made me feel worthless and unlovable.

I am still waiting for WH to commit to NC. Since there is none, I find it really hard to relate to him and even his efforts of trying to fix the M when contact persists.
But I think you are doing really great, if only I can do the same as you, then maybe NC can come to my doorstep?

I will pray for you too.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/21/10 11:35 AM
Quote
I am still waiting for WH to commit to NC. Since there is none, I find it really hard to relate to him and even his efforts of trying to fix the M when contact persists.
But I think you are doing really great, if only I can do the same as you, then maybe NC can come to my doorstep?
All you can do is do the best PA you can. Its really sad but as my love for her gets chipped away I do a better and better PA. When she is mean to me or just doesnt care it just doesnt get to me as much. Maybe its the new dosage of anti depressants kicking in.


All we can do is follow the plan. It puts us way ahead of them since they really dont have any plan what so ever. They can try to push us away and we stand pat. If they run away we cant stop them. We can just stand at a distance and let them bang around blind in the room. Hopefully they will have the sense to turn on a light.
Quote
I will pray for you too.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/21/10 12:49 PM
Fathers day report.
Nothing big really happened till the end of the night. We went to church together. Message was on character. How you can measure your character as what you do when no one is watching. Also how all you do that you THINK is in private will eventually be revealed. Im sure she loved that.

She got me a very nice card, shirt and a pair of dockers.

Had a decent run. Lost about 2 pounds this week. Not bad overall.

End of the night she is fixing to leave. Im just folding clothes and doing the normal PA routine. She stops me and tellsme she is willing to do a day trip on sunday. Its our anniversary. The condition was that I couldnt buy her presents or a card. Told her that was unnacceptable because I had already bought her a present. She told me I was lieing.

So I brought her presents down and gave them to her. TOld her happy fathers day. She told me she wasnt a father and didnt get presents. I just told her I wanted to have our day trip. She then started getting upset because now SHE was going to have to estimate how much they cost and get me something the same value.

I got really pissed at this. I dont want her money. I just want to see her all happy when she gets things. So i told her that. I then asked her didnt she know how much I cared for her?

She said," I understand your afraid of losing me"

My head about spun off. I told that I NEVER stopped loving her or trying to do things for her. She wouldnt let me. I asked her if she knew how many times I tried to call her when she was with OM. How many messages were on the phone. I told her how much it hurt me. How I thought I was giving her what she needed by letting her go on all those trips by herself to "find herself". Mean while the only thing she was finding was another man on top of her. I told her that being raped by another man was a billion times less hurtful than the pain she had caused me. I wasnt exaggerating either.

I told her I should have known better that all the signs were there. The stone on her engagement ring may be loose but there was nothing wrong with the band. Asked her if she even remembered the last time she wore it. I basically just told her I never STOPPED loving her.

By this point she is crying. She just asked me, "When did I become such a horrible person?" I told her she wasnt a horrible person. She was a person that made mistakes. I told her im ready to forgive her. Im ready to start to try to recover our M. I think we need guidance to succeed but im willing to do it.

At this point she is just absorbed in her self pity though. All she would say was that she was a terrible person. I just held her and sopped up the tears on her cheeks with some napkins. I told her everything was going to be alright. I told her I was with her and would take care of her.

This went on for about 30 minutes. Finally she just wanted to go. I told her she needed to just stay. That she should just let me help her. I told her I had by hand out to her. That i wanted to pull her out of this. All she had to do was grab my hand. Just shook her little wayward head no.

I told her I wasnt going to run. That I was staying and had promised to love honor and cherish and thats exactly what I was doing. I also stressed this was definatly more towards the "bad times" but that we can recover from it. I told her That she cant make me run no matter how hard she tries. That I couldnt stop her from running away from me though. I would be there to pick her up when she was ready though.

I talked to her about using the love we still have for each other as a new foundation for our M. The good thing about hitting the bottom is that you can build on the bedrock. You can make things better.

In the end she ended up leaving. She was spent emotionally. I didnt get emotional at all. Said everything matter of fact.

The sad part is I now know that I WONT wait forever. I can feel my love for her getting chipped away a little every day. Its starting to bother me less and less when she leaves. She is killing the love I have for her. I can see why people HAVE to go to Plan B now. Im not at the minimum balance yet but I know its out there.

I can also see why people can get lost and get in an A themselves. You hurt so bad and just want someone to care for you. I can feel myself being more and more attracted to other women. Im basically having to set up EPs on myself so I wont be tempted. When Im running I dont LOOK at other women. I just put my head down and stare at the cement till they pass. I have to stop myself from even talking to women that arent my wife. I dont want to be tempted to tell personal information to anyone but her.

Sad thing is PA is actually going ALOT better the more I fall out of love with her. I feel like im just going through the motions and playing out the string. That she is already decided to leave. She just hast got the courage too. Its helping me run the 180 too. I genuinely want to do things for myself now. its not just an act. I just dont feel like a whipping boy anymore.

Im still taking care of her needs that she will let me. Im actually running a really GOOD PA atm. Not pushing anymore. No desperate compliments or trying to chat her up when she is not in the mood. Im not as tolerant of he little whims. While I want to take care of her im not afraid to manhandle her a bit and put her in her place. She kinda digs it a bit too I think.

I guess you should be careful what you pray for. I asked for patience and strength. I have that now. Its just because ive accepted that her leaving is inevitable now. That she is just working up the courage too. I EXPECT a PB situation. Im still doing a great PA and the 180 is finally working well. Its because Ive accepted the fact that she is already gone finally. Its sad but true.

The good thing though is by continuing to follow the plan the guilt I use to feel is gone. Im confident im doing everything that I can to save my wife. To pull her out of the abyss. If she doesnt want to grab my hand I cant force her.

They should put a sign on these boards. Abandon Ye all hope those that enter here. When hope goes it gets easier. I know that if she recommits I will be able to drive the recovery bus now because Im not interested unless its on my terms. Just her leaving doesnt bother me as much anymore. It would be a relief in alot of ways.

Please dont think im giving up guys. I am still doing the right stuff. I just refuse to slip on the same banana peel over and over and get my guts ripped out everytime the fog comes back in. Its better to pull back from the situation a little and save myself the HUGE LB$ withdrawals when she says the cruel things. By accepting that she is that alien and the lost little girl im slowing the erosion of myself.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/21/10 04:36 PM
Is what im feeling normal or is this a greater problem that I need to address?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/21/10 04:46 PM
Yes, it is normal. You are lovingly detaching from her craziness. Your lovebank is being drained.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 04:17 AM
Short update

Typical night nothing big.

I did break the no Relationship talk rule but for good reason.
I asked her if she has decided on anything yet. She says she is still deciding. I stressed the fact that i wanted her to return to the M. That i loved her and wanted to take care of her. I also pointed out the fact that I was ready to move past the A but i would ahve to have some answers first to lingering questions i had.

I also pointed out to her that i would need some boundaries. I didnt use those words. I pointed out the fact that she STILL has him on facebook. That it killed me everytime i walked in and see it minimized in her tray. Were they talking together? told her how much it was hurting me.

I also pointed out in very clear terms that i wanted honesty in my life. she asked for me or her. I said both.

I asked her what she would be willing to do if she decided she would recommit. She said she would talk about it then. I asked her what her plans were if she was to leave me. She said she would talk about that then. Basically totally noncommited to any thoughts on recovery. She is totally just avoiding that for now.

I told her that I was willing to work with her financially if she was to stay in the M.

I also told her that it hurts me SOO much what im going through right now. That because of this pain there was no possibility that we would stay friends if she were to leave me.

The big thing was that i asked her what her time frame was on a decision. days, weeks or months. She says she hoped it would be less than weeks.

Right before she left i asked her for an answer one way ot another by the end of the month. She told me she would try.

This is important because ill have to serve her early july if im not going to let my case drop. Id prefer to have an answer by then so I can decide if its going to be reconciliation papers or a petition for divorce.

We will see what happens.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 11:47 AM
WW is jerking you around.

To not let the date lapse. You must file and file now.

Divorces can and have been stopped. Marriages have been recovered after divorce.

Again why are you having relaationship talks?

Plan A her but do not say you will give her money. Stop all this desparate pleading. Stop telling her how her banging the OM is hurting you. Stop acting weak, needy, hurt, begging.

Plan A is about showing how you have changed. Showing is not telling her you have changed. Showing her how her life can be happier married to you then the OM.

Weak: why are you still on FB with the OM, why is OM not blocked

Strong: Close down FB I will not accept you conducting your affair in front of my face
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 12:07 PM
Quote
Again why are you having relaationship talks?

This one was to give her a deadline basically. That way I can serve her with a clear conscience.

Quote
Stop all this desparate pleading.

Was no pleading. No begging. I asked her what she was doing. No tears on either side for a change. Never once begged her to stay.

Quote
Stop telling her how her banging the OM is hurting you. Stop acting weak, needy, hurt, begging.

I thought I was supposed to tell her how her adulterous actions are hurting me and my family.

As per the OM on FB I kinda screwed up there. I just thought it would mean more if she removed him than I did. I KNOW from the KL that she has not spoke to him on FB since 5/12. She did go to his FB page one time though a few weeks ago. If she was chatting with him I would have done it.

Quote
To not let the date lapse. You must file and file now.
Its filed. I just have 60 days to serve her and that day is rapidly approaching.

If she was carrying on an active affair I would be much more aggressive. There is only 1 time that I that there was possible contact. I cant verify the contact though. No other contact that I can find.
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 12:07 PM
YEG,

I can't begin to tell you what to do. You must make that call yourself. But, as I said before, your WW is spewing the EXACT same flavor of fog talk that mine did.

"Still deciding" means still stringing you along with no intention of recommitting. I know this sounds harsh, but you can take it to the bank.

All this talk also means there is still contact going on. I'm 100% sure on that, and as long as there is contact there is no chance of her making any movement towards recommitting.

This will not change between now and the end of the month.
Posted By: mindshare Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 12:53 PM
I agree with Schtoop. She will continue with this as long as you allow it. Why should she make a hard choice? Fence sitting is so much easier!

That convo last night makes you still sound weak and needy. C'mon YEG! Why are you letting WW dictate the timeline here? You look weak to her and you are giving her all of the power. Bad choice. She will continue to fence sit as long as you let her. You set the deadline. If you need to know by the end of the month then set that deadline.

Sorry to smack you up side the head here but you are still sounding weak and needy. Not a good plan to get a WW off of the fence.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
In the end though ill be ok either way. Im a young guy with a great job in a field thats exploding with opportunities. Ive learned alot from this experience and me fixing my problems will carry over to the next relationship. I hope thats with the WW but if its not then Ill get by. Only thing that sucks is buying so many new clothes. Ive dropped 4 inches off my waist so the suits I bought just a month ago Ive already had to get altered....

She WILL realize eventually that she misses me. I just hope its not too late.

I WILL NOT WAIT FOREVER FOR HER. There are plenty of other women that have been to the show. They want a professional man to take care of them and show them the love I can provide. In the 20s all women cares about was looks. In their 30s its all about security. I wont stay on the market long especially since im willing to work on a relationship.

While it will be pretty easy to find a suitable replacement for my WW it wont be easy for her to find someone that can be as good of a provider, father, and as understandable as im being. Cute divorced women are a dime a dozen. Men that can provide that security AND are willing to commit are NOT.

That's you being strong. That's you, as JWMC said, "lovingly detaching from her craziness."

you've done a brilliant job with Plan A. it's LOGICAL to want to give her one last go at an open discussion of where your relationship stands, but here's the thing--she's starting to get weepy and remorseful, and if you give her something to rebel against, she will POUNCE on that.

do WE think you're being needy, whiny, etc? no. will your WW be able to skew your words and actions so she can keep believing that YOU'RE the bad guy? yes.

the date is an ultimatum in and of itself. don't let her last memory of Plan A be of perceived pressure and begging. does it matter that you're not really pressuring her or begging her? not to her, it doesn't. if she can remember it that way, it will allow her to continue to wallow in self-pity and delay the onset of fog-dispersion.

Plan B if necessary before her attitude breaks your resolve. she's wearing you down. maybe she needs to MISS you a little.



Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 02:48 PM
if you've got more solid Plan A-grade patience in you, take up a risky sport or an off-the-wall hobby or something. make some new friends (always respectful of boundaries, of course). build a house for Habitat for Humanity or something.

let her see a new and intriguing facet of your personalityso she can't twist her mental image of who you are and is forced to see you in a new light: hey, who's this interesting hard-working lean guy i've been seeing around the house lately? this guy's ELIGIBLE. oh wait...he's already my HUSBAND.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 05:23 PM
"This one was to give her a deadline basically. That way I can serve her with a clear conscience." puke

"Was no pleading. No begging. I asked her what she was doing. No tears on either side for a change. Never once begged her to stay." puke

I'll write it slow so maybe you will grasp it: n o r e l a t i o n s h i p t a l k.

Repeatedly asking WW if she is going to come back is begging even if their are no tears.

Assertive is go NC with the OM now or pack you clothes and get out now.

Yes that's being real strong asking the WW to decide if she is going to give up the OM as you hive her more time to keep banging the OM to make sure she likes SF with the OM more.

"I thought I was supposed to tell her how her adulterous actions are hurting me and my family." puke

You can not teach a WW.

"Its filed. I just have 60 days to serve her and that day is rapidly approaching."

Why give the OM 60 more days?

To bang your WW 60 more times.

Because you can't verify contact does not mean that their is NC.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 06:00 PM
Ill serve her if she doesnt make a decision by the end of the month. I wont let it lapse.

I can tell you I wont do any more relationship talk prior to the end of the month.

I will ask her if she has made a decision prior to me filing. It may be weak but one more time isnt going to matter. I'll file for custody and kick her out of the house if she doesn't recommit.

All I can tell you is I am getting No action on either the VARs, her cell phone, the GPS or the keylogger.

If she is still making contact then she will continue to have her [censored] glued to the fence. Then she will get tossed out and probably lose custody depending on what the judge thinks at least on a temp basis. If she is not then she will get pissed at the ultimatum and leave or decide to stay for the better good of our family.

Ill be honest with yall. Im starting to feel waywardish myself. I am starting to get attracted to other women again. I get curious what it would be like with another women that might treat me better. Im imposing EPs on myself to prevent one but its getting harder and harder to resist. When im running I dont even look at other women. I look at the pavement. At vacation bible school there was a nice looking girl on the stage teaching the kids. SHe had glasses and very nice black hair. All I could think about was how much she reminded me of my last GF before the wife and wondered if she was married. I had to force myself to look away and literally occupy my mind on other things.

In all honesty the WW hasnt met my needs in YEARS. Its possible she wasnt good M material from the start. Calling her a player maybe too harsh but she has cheated on a fiance, with a married man and now her husband.

Id rather bargain and be in a position of power during negotiations. Feel more cornered so she may be willing to participate in recovery. Even if she recommits she wont say what she is willing to do.

All I can go on is what I see and how she is responding. She seems to be going through withdrawals. Her parents and I speak everyday about it. They agree as well.

Its a crap place to be regardless. Ill just add a couple weeks after her being served then go plan b and be done with it. I can tell you at this rate ill make it maybe a year in PA. First boyfriend she openly gets im just getting the D. The hell with her.

I love my daughter but living life in a crap marriage with someone that doesnt want me and is doing the bare minimum to stay with me isnt my idea of a good time.

Im not giving up on WW yet. Its just getting harder and harder to deal with her and justify myself going through this pain for a woman who wont even reach out for the ladder out of the quicksand.
Posted By: ElunaInNC Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Ill be honest with yall. Im starting to feel waywardish myself. I am starting to get attracted to other women again. I get curious what it would be like with another women that might treat me better. Im imposing EPs on myself to prevent one but its getting harder and harder to resist. When im running I dont even look at other women. I look at the pavement. At vacation bible school there was a nice looking girl on the stage teaching the kids. SHe had glasses and very nice black hair. All I could think about was how much she reminded me of my last GF before the wife and wondered if she was married. I had to force myself to look away and literally occupy my mind on other things.

In all honesty the WW hasnt met my needs in YEARS. Its possible she wasnt good M material from the start. Calling her a player maybe too harsh but she has cheated on a fiance, with a married man and now her husband.

YEG, I have felt this way too. Like you I have placed strict EPs on my life to ensure I do not cross the line. But oh boy are there days that I really want to. I acknowledge that those feelings are currently rooted in the pain and anger I am feeling, and in order to save my M, I have to move past those feelings. You seem to understand that as well, so I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in those feelings.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by ElunaInNC
Originally Posted by YEG
Ill be honest with yall. Im starting to feel waywardish myself. I am starting to get attracted to other women again. I get curious what it would be like with another women that might treat me better. Im imposing EPs on myself to prevent one but its getting harder and harder to resist. When im running I dont even look at other women. I look at the pavement. At vacation bible school there was a nice looking girl on the stage teaching the kids. SHe had glasses and very nice black hair. All I could think about was how much she reminded me of my last GF before the wife and wondered if she was married. I had to force myself to look away and literally occupy my mind on other things.

In all honesty the WW hasnt met my needs in YEARS. Its possible she wasnt good M material from the start. Calling her a player maybe too harsh but she has cheated on a fiance, with a married man and now her husband.

YEG, I have felt this way too. Like you I have placed strict EPs on my life to ensure I do not cross the line. But oh boy are there days that I really want to. I acknowledge that those feelings are currently rooted in the pain and anger I am feeling, and in order to save my M, I have to move past those feelings. You seem to understand that as well, so I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in those feelings.

I can tell you, going to the gym to work out is a good thing for my health, but man, it's hard to keep from fantasizing about what it would be like to be with all the attractive, single women there.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Ill serve her if she doesnt make a decision by the end of the month. I wont let it lapse.

I can tell you I wont do any more relationship talk prior to the end of the month.

I will ask her if she has made a decision prior to me filing. It may be weak but one more time isnt going to matter. I'll file for custody and kick her out of the house if she doesn't recommit.

All I can tell you is I am getting No action on either the VARs, her cell phone, the GPS or the keylogger.

If she is still making contact then she will continue to have her [censored] glued to the fence. Then she will get tossed out and probably lose custody depending on what the judge thinks at least on a temp basis. If she is not then she will get pissed at the ultimatum and leave or decide to stay for the better good of our family.

Ill be honest with yall. Im starting to feel waywardish myself. I am starting to get attracted to other women again. I get curious what it would be like with another women that might treat me better. Im imposing EPs on myself to prevent one but its getting harder and harder to resist. When im running I dont even look at other women. I look at the pavement. At vacation bible school there was a nice looking girl on the stage teaching the kids. SHe had glasses and very nice black hair. All I could think about was how much she reminded me of my last GF before the wife and wondered if she was married. I had to force myself to look away and literally occupy my mind on other things.

In all honesty the WW hasnt met my needs in YEARS. Its possible she wasnt good M material from the start. Calling her a player maybe too harsh but she has cheated on a fiance, with a married man and now her husband.

Id rather bargain and be in a position of power during negotiations. Feel more cornered so she may be willing to participate in recovery. Even if she recommits she wont say what she is willing to do.

All I can go on is what I see and how she is responding. She seems to be going through withdrawals. Her parents and I speak everyday about it. They agree as well.

Its a crap place to be regardless. Ill just add a couple weeks after her being served then go plan b and be done with it. I can tell you at this rate ill make it maybe a year in PA. First boyfriend she openly gets im just getting the D. The hell with her.

I love my daughter but living life in a crap marriage with someone that doesnt want me and is doing the bare minimum to stay with me isnt my idea of a good time.

Im not giving up on WW yet. Its just getting harder and harder to deal with her and justify myself going through this pain for a woman who wont even reach out for the ladder out of the quicksand.

you ever wonder if she gets on here and reads your posts? i hope so.

i don't have to tell you this, you've obviously got the boundaries in place, but don't cheat. you already know the moral reasons, so i'll cut to the strictly practical ones: your conscience will beat you to DEATH, even if you never get caught.

look at it this way: you're facing the same temptations WW faced, and you're not tossing her over at the drop of a hat. and if anyone has fertile ground for RIGHTEOUS resentment and desire for recompense, it would be a betrayed spouse. glad you're aware and glad you're mindful of boundaries. protect yourself. there are predatory women out there on the prowl for mistreated husbands.

look, you've probably BEEN encountering temptation left and right, and are just now aware of it because you've been so focused on WW. be aware of attention from other women--it'll help you stay confident when WW is at her most difficult--but don't seek it. the last thing you need right now is a frickin Special Friend. if you resist it, you'll always be able to look yourself in the eye and KNOW you were always the good guy and that you did your level best to save your marriage, regardless of the outcome.

(worst case scenario, girls have a soft spot in their hearts for single daddies who get custody. awwww. sort of a wounded-soldier type thing.)

YEG, you deserve a happy marriage. i hope sincerely that it'll be a happy marriage to your current wife. don't let her make you sad and bitter and forget that you love her. even if you're basically resigned to amicable divorce at this point, don't lose hope. guard against expectations, but hang onto hope.

p.s. look, i know i'm always giving you these hyper-optimistic Pollyanna posts--"oh, excellent, she's on a hysterical crying jag? she's punching holes in the sheetrock with her bare fists? super, that means she's feeling remorseful! hooray, the fog is dissipating!" i'm not trying to paint you a picture, here, i'm just hoping for the best for you guys.


You need to show indifference. The only time you shouldn't is when she's on FB in the house and contacting him. That is when you should man up, turn it off, and tell her she can hit the road but that you won't be disrespected in your own home. Say it without anger. Offer her a cookie after you shut off the power to the computer.

YEG, it's all about being cool, indifferent, and carrying on with your life.

You deserve better. Showing a willingness to kick her to the curb says a lot more about how much you respect yourself than anything. The fact that you have papers moving forward is good. Have her served so she gets her dose of reality.

Forget all the drama she's spewing at you. It really is very simple. Commit to the marriage, accept that you guys have things to work on, and then get to it. If not, then she can hit the road. Life is too short to be spent worrying on a cheater and there are too many fine women in the world to worry about a disfunctional drama queen.

Would James Bond be dealing with all this drama?
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
You need to show indifference. The only time you shouldn't is when she's on FB in the house and contacting him. That is when you should man up, turn it off, and tell her she can hit the road but that you won't be disrespected in your own home. Say it without anger. Offer her a cookie after you shut off the power to the computer.

YEG, it's all about being cool, indifferent, and carrying on with your life.

You deserve better. Showing a willingness to kick her to the curb says a lot more about how much you respect yourself than anything. The fact that you have papers moving forward is good. Have her served so she gets her dose of reality.

Forget all the drama she's spewing at you. It really is very simple. Commit to the marriage, accept that you guys have things to work on, and then get to it. If not, then she can hit the road. Life is too short to be spent worrying on a cheater and there are too many fine women in the world to worry about a disfunctional drama queen.

Would James Bond be dealing with all this drama?

WHAT YOU SAID, HELP/DADS!!! LOVELY ASSESSMENT, SIR!

p.s. YEG, you can't fake indifference. if you've ever been in sales you know what's up w/ Indifference, Fear of Loss, etc. Help/Dads here is on point.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/22/10 10:33 PM
Quote
you ever wonder if she gets on here and reads your posts? i hope so.

I KNOW she doesnt. Its blocked on her computer.

Quote
YEG, you deserve a happy marriage. i hope sincerely that it'll be a happy marriage to your current wife. don't let her make you sad and bitter and forget that you love her.

Despite her best attempts she hasnt yet. Thing is she was NEVER cruel to me in person. We didnt fight ever. She just pushed me away slowly over the years. I let her since I thought she needed space. The only thing she ever did horrible to me was the A. Of course thats about the WORSE thing you can ever do to a person.

I still love her. Im still IN LOVE with her. She is just being distant. From the outside it wouldnt be bad but since thats what she has been doing while she was in the A for YEARS its more of a trigger than anything else.

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even if you're basically resigned to amicable divorce at this point, don't lose hope.
Amicable isnt going to happen. She is going to lose everything she has and will probably end up bankrupt. She might lose custody of DD5. I got a pretty good case since she makes HORRIBLE decisions. She lost her job due to fraud against the govt. She lost her top secret clearance. She participated in a 2 year A where she would pawn off DD5 so she could F(* a animal like the OM.

Quote
look, i know i'm always giving you these hyper-optimistic Pollyanna posts--"oh, excellent, she's on a hysterical crying jag? she's punching holes in the sheetrock with her bare fists? super, that means she's feeling remorseful! hooray, the fog is dissipating!" i'm not trying to paint you a picture, here, i'm just hoping for the best for you guys.

i know you are. I see it too and i want to interpret every one of her actions like she is coming back to the M. I use to. Id get all excited. Then the rug kept coming out from under me. After you slip on that banana peel a few times you REALLY lose those expectations instead of just telling yourself no expectations. It just hurts too much.

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Would James Bond be dealing with all this drama?

he was only married for like 10 minutes. He didnt have a chance to even cheat on her.

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You deserve better. Showing a willingness to kick her to the curb says a lot more about how much you respect yourself than anything. The fact that you have papers moving forward is good. Have her served so she gets her dose of reality.

Of course I deserve better. I have real doubts she will ever truelly commit to recovery. I wouldnt be surprised if im in the same predicament in a few years. maybe an EA then. maybe she just runs away. maybe another PA.

I will try to set boundaries. I will hope she buys into the MB program. I just have my doubts. She has been miserable for so long. I think she has been depressed for so long that it is all she knows. She just a sad person. Maybe its due to her being in a EA that turned into a PA. Maybe she has a chemical unbalance in her chemical levels in her brain. She wont take medicine though. My sister thinks she probably has a personality disorder. She wont get help though.

If I didnt have DD5 id leave her. It would be the smart move. I would get out SCOTT FREE. I just cant not honor my M vows. I have to be able to tell the wee one that I did everything I could for us.

Quote
Commit to the marriage, accept that you guys have things to work on, and then get to it. If not, then she can hit the road.

Of course its that simple. It is to you, me, her parents, my parents and the brick wall over there. Waywards are sometimes thick skulled though.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 02:47 AM
Welcome to YEG's boring blog entry of the day.

Non event last night. i went running for about 3 and a 1/2 miles. It sucked because it was HOT as all get out.

Got home and watched DD5 for a bit so WW could take a break. She ran on the treadmill and later went to her parents. She got home and cooked a pretty nice dinner. Chicken a la orange with some rice. I was sure to thank her for it.

After dinner she just read a book. I checked on her and she didnt need anything. Ended up leaving a bit later.

One thing i have noticed over the last few days. Her facebook time has cut WAY down. Computer time in general. maybe she actually IS thinking about WTF to do with her life. Maybe the prod the other day helped. maybe her dad is pushing her harder.

FIL warned me about deadlines and ultimatums. Said it would likely push her in the wrong direction. Dont really care anymore to be honest. I expect her to leave regardless. Will hurt but wont be a shock. MIL and FIL will fight my case while I PB I think. They dont want her living at their house with a 5 year old on their dime.

If she tells me she is leaving it relieves me of any guilt I have for serving her. What she going to say? I was going to recomitt to the M and give you the best B&*^(*B of your life!! Now im not because you served me divorce papers because I told you I wanted a seperation!

Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 04:25 AM
YEG:

I have followed your story for quite a while and I admire what you have done.

However, I believe you will likely fail with your current plan. I believe your WW is still in contact and in the affair.

If she is NC then she has absolutely nothing in her love bank and she does not love you and may never love you again.

You describe an extremely detached distant woman. From your own words I do not see any chance for success.

Furthermore, your WW has done this before. She left the current OM for you once. Now she has reconnected and she could very well be planning to leave you. These patterns tend to repeat, remember you once said you were the OM at that time.

You are only 33 years old!!!!!!! Do you know how lucky you are to be 33? YOU ARE A VERY YOUNG MAN!

Without trying very hard you could easily find a nice 25-30 year old single woman with no baggage that will love you and treat you like a prince for the rest of your life. You are exactly what these women are looking for.

I understand you have a strong desire to bond with your WW again. That is quite natural in the aftermath of D-day, but this will pass if you go NC or Plan B.

In my situation I stayed married because I was 53, had five kids (that did not know mom was an adulterer), and my WW worked her butt off to be a great FWW. She stopped the affair and worked very hard on the marriage. She even posted here as a FWW.

In your case: You are very young and have a highly disinterested WW. Even if she weakly decides to try I don't think her heart is in it. You will end up with years of chronic pain instead of a much shorter acute episode of pain if you proceed with the divorce.

I suggest you stop being to attentive and proceed with the divorce. If here is a chance for you this may very well be the only way to get your wife back.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 11:52 AM
Quote
If she is NC then she has absolutely nothing in her love bank and she does not love you and may never love you again.

You describe an extremely detached distant woman. From your own words I do not see any chance for success.

Its probably not as bad as what I make it out to be. Its not as good as it could be though. Maybe going to PB and making her see her family turn on her will help.

It might make her wake up. Dont know.

Quote
In your case: You are very young and have a highly disinterested WW. Even if she weakly decides to try I don't think her heart is in it. You will end up with years of chronic pain instead of a much shorter acute episode of pain if you proceed withy the divorce.

I suggest you stop being to attentive and proceed with the divorce. If here is a chance for you this may very well be the only way to get your wife back.

Ill see how it goes. Its bad. I know. I dont wanna give up yet but I see the writing on the wall.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
YEG:
Furthermore, your WW has done this before. She left the current OM for you once. Now she has reconnected and she could very well be planning to leave you. These patterns tend to repeat, remember you once said you were the OM at that time.

I do agree that she is very disinterested right now...just wanted to clarify that YEG was NOT the OM....she wasn't married to the OM. He has said he sees now that he might have been in the middle of them when they were engaged but I did not get the impression he was in a sexual relationship with her even. Also, I remember he said he did not speak to her for 8 months when he believed she had married the OM...when one or the other made contact again after 8 months he was surprised to learn she had broken off the relationship.

So while it is true she has a history with this OM....I wouldn't say she left him for YEG and certainly YEG was not the OM.
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 01:21 PM
I'm sorry to say this, I really am.

But, I believe that Stanley has nailed it.

Like my WW was, you wife is so far withdrawn that it will be damn near impossible for her to come back. The ONLY way back is with a full commitment, 100% effort from the both of you.

It was clear that my STBXW was never going to give that effort and I'm afraid you are in the same boat.

Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 02:16 PM
YEG:

I did not mean to say you were an OM---------I get the picture. However, this issue is that she has done this before and most people tend to repeat their behaviors and do not change.

I believe your only chance of saving your marriage is to actually start divorce proceedings.

I suspect your WW is too far gone or she is still in the affair.

I also worry about 25-30 years of unhappiness in the horizon with WW. OTOH, you could be extremely happy with a brand new woman and a fresh start.

I know this is a marriage saving web site and i actually saved my own marriage, however there are times when one must initiate the divorce.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 02:59 PM
Quote
I did not get the impression he was in a sexual relationship with her even. Also, I remember he said he did not speak to her for 8 months when he believed she had married the OM...when one or the other made contact again after 8 months he was surprised to learn she had broken off the relationship.
Here is what happened. I was dating her when I got transferred to another port 1000s of miles away. We were doing the long distance thing.

Meanwhile her OM she was engaged to at the time was about a 1000 miles away.

She told me they were engaged but we continued to talk. She would [censored] about her fiance to me and I would talk trash about him because he was being a jerk. I cared for her but nothing but nothing could develop I understood. Before my 6 month deployment I asked her if she still intended to get married to him. She said yes. Ok I basically said goodbye because I had no intention to mess around with a married women. Basically I was in a EA with a engaged women.

As far as sex she was saving herself for M. SHe didnt have SF with me or him. I dated her for years without any intimate contact. So while she was engaged I admit we kissed but that was it. So maybe it was a PA.

I came back from me deployment and waited a couple of months. I got curious and called. I found out their wedding was on hold indefinatly. We resumed talking and I transfered back to her state. She was still bitching about the OM and saying how bad he was. I fed the fire.

Shortly after I got back they called off their Wedding and we started dating. It was maybe a year after that when we started having SF. I was not her first coincidencly that was a Married man she dated for a while.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 03:06 PM
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I suspect your WW is too far gone or she is still in the affair.
I think the A is dead really do. She may just be too far now. She may be willing to work on the M. She has implied that she is holding back somethings because she doesnt want to lead me on.

Problem is I want to give her a chance. At the same time I dont want to waste time if she isnt going to commit. If she isnt able to give me an answer I dont see any reason why not to serve her.

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OTOH, you could be extremely happy with a brand new woman and a fresh start.
Yep I dont want the nagging doubts and what ifs that I will have to deal with. I feel I have to put every effort into it. IF it still doesnt work I will walk away with my head held high.

Quote
I know this is a marriage saving web site and i actually saved my own marriage, however there are times when one must initiate the divorce.
I appreciate the input. Recovery is VERY tough and if I call off the D I lose alot of my power. If I had to go PB later it wouldnt be as effective since she would have alot more wiggle room legally since I forgave her.

Every M cant be saved. I realize that.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
I did not get the impression he was in a sexual relationship with her even. Also, I remember he said he did not speak to her for 8 months when he believed she had married the OM...when one or the other made contact again after 8 months he was surprised to learn she had broken off the relationship.
Here is what happened. I was dating her when I got transferred to another port 1000s of miles away. We were doing the long distance thing.

Meanwhile her OM she was engaged to at the time was about a 1000 miles away.

She told me they were engaged but we continued to talk. She would [censored] about her fiance to me and I would talk trash about him because he was being a jerk. I cared for her but nothing but nothing could develop I understood. Before my 6 month deployment I asked her if she still intended to get married to him. She said yes. Ok I basically said goodbye because I had no intention to mess around with a married women. Basically I was in a EA with a engaged women.

As far as sex she was saving herself for M. SHe didnt have SF with me or him. I dated her for years without any intimate contact. So while she was engaged I admit we kissed but that was it. So maybe it was a PA.

I came back from me deployment and waited a couple of months. I got curious and called. I found out their wedding was on hold indefinatly. We resumed talking and I transfered back to her state. She was still bitching about the OM and saying how bad he was. I fed the fire.

Shortly after I got back they called off their Wedding and we started dating. It was maybe a year after that when we started having SF. I was not her first coincidencly that was a Married man she dated for a while.

Seriously, it was only a matter of time before this happened. If you do get divorced, you need to do one hell of a better job choosing a partner in the future. You should have never married this woman in the first place.

I think you need to go through with the D and plan B if for nothing else than to "break her" and get her to hit rock bottom so hopefully she comes to the realization that she can't continue to live the way she was living even before you got married. I'm not so confident that she'll ever change. She seems like a spoiled little daddy's girl who feels entitled to everything. Maybe hitting rock bottom will give her a "come to Jesus" moment.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 03:36 PM
Quote
Meanwhile her OM she was engaged to at the time was about a 1000 miles away.

She told me they were engaged but we continued to talk. She would [censored] about her fiance to me and I would talk trash about him because he was being a jerk. I cared for her but nothing but nothing could develop I understood. Before my 6 month deployment I asked her if she still intended to get married to him. She said yes. Ok I basically said goodbye because I had no intention to mess around with a married women. Basically I was in a EA with a engaged women.

As far as sex she was saving herself for M. SHe didnt have SF with me or him. I dated her for years without any intimate contact. So while she was engaged I admit we kissed but that was it. So maybe it was a PA.

I came back from me deployment and waited a couple of months. I got curious and called. I found out their wedding was on hold indefinatly. We resumed talking and I transfered back to her state. She was still bitching about the OM and saying how bad he was. I fed the fire.

Shortly after I got back they called off their Wedding and we started dating. It was maybe a year after that when we started having SF. I was not her first coincidencly that was a Married man she dated for a while.

Regardless of the details.

She has done this before and now she is doing the same to you. She has simply reversed the components of the equation. She probably tells OM how horrible you are. On top of that she also dated a married man in the past.

History is very important. It is not what people say, but what they have done in the past.

YEG: You are a very young nice man. Do not forget that!

My wife came from a family of cheaters and those memes are hard to break. Your wife may not be able to change.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 04:15 PM
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She probably tells OM how horrible you are. On top of that she also dated a married man in the past.

Im sure she did. I know she complained that I wouldnt take her anywhere. So what that I was at work. Didnt matter.

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YEG: You are a very young nice man. Do not forget that!
I dont forget but i am my own worse enemy. I KNOW there is life after D.

Its my love of family and need to take care of people that make me such a desirable mate. Im not willing to corrupt my values and risk guilt down the road though. She may have sold her values down the river but I am not willing to do that.

I hear your message loud and clear though. I want to keep my options open. I will welcome her back to try if she is willing but she has to make some changes too.

Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 04:36 PM
In the aftermath of D-day there can be a huge desire to bond. In my case I had an insatiable need to have SF 24/7 and my wife also participated in the hysterical bonding. She ended the affair, was committed to rebuild the marriage, and went through withdrawal. Nevertheless it was pure hell and something I will never forget. My life was changed forever.

My wife was a best case scenario for rebuilding a marriage and it was still a very hard thing to do.

I know you have this uncontrollable desire to bond and get your wife back. This desire is so strong that it clouds your mind and perhaps you could act differently in a year when the desire to bond is less.

Maybe you are unaware of how you write, but you describe a WW that is not interested at all. This could be a very long laborious road that ends nowhere and before you know it you will be 43 instead of 33.

I mention age because at 33 you are in the prime of your life and have the best cahnce of finding a great woman.

One more thing: Pay attention to the red flags. Your WW came from a family of cheaters and she had shown you she was capable of cheating and to be involved with married men. Your WW waved the flags and you did not see them or perhaps you wanted to ignore the flags.

This will be a great learning experience and you should consider DIVORCE.

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/23/10 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
Maybe you are unaware of how you write, but you describe a WW that is not interested at all. This could be a very long laborious road that ends nowhere and before you know it you will be 43 instead of 33.


One more thing: Pay attention to the red flags. Your WW came from a family of cheaters and she had shown you she was capable of cheating and to be involved with married men. Your WW waved the flags and you did not see them or perhaps you wanted to ignore the flags.

I totally agree with all that Stanley said above. I believe that is new information that she had an affair that went physical with a married man before she married you. THAT says a lot about her...she clearly didn't learn any lessons from that early life SIN because she has continued doing the same thing. Apparently marriage is not sacred to her.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 03:28 AM
There is a possibility I may be transitioning to PB soon. So i went ahead and made a first draft for yall to take a cut at.

=======================================================
Dear WW,

It pains me to have to write this. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. The direction that I must go now is not one of choice but of necessity.

I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize the error of my ways and have learned from those so I can prevent them in the future. I am truly sorry for helping to create and environment that has made it possible for your affair to OM possible. I did not realize how much you needed help with DD5 while I was on the road. I wish I could go back and take you on those trips away from the house. I never meant to make you feel like a shut in. I now see the things that I was lacking in. I just didn't understand how important that was to us.

The past 2 months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. My only saving grace is the memories of the love we once shared, of the all good times we have spent together, your extraordinary qualities that led me to ask you to spend your life with me and thought of us being together, someday happy again. Unfortunately, I now find those thoughts and feelings are slowly eroding away. Before I lose any more of the thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take steps to protect them.

WW, as you know I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One, in which we both feel loved, safe, honored and cherished. I simply can not continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage until you completely break from OM and recommit to our M. It has become too painful.

Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. To this end I ask you move out the house asap. I do not wish for either of our bonds with DD5 to suffer any further so I propose we split time with DD5 equally. I will take DD5 thursday, Friday and Saturday. You can take DD5 sunday, monday and tuesday. I will have DD5 one wendnesday you the next. I also will call DD5 every night that I dont have her to tell her good night and I invite you to do the same. I ask that we use MIL, FIL or M and F for these exchanges and to make that nightly call. I also will call DD5 every night that I dont have her to tell her good night. FIL has agreed to act as a intermediary for us. Any message you would like to relay to me I ask go through him.

For financial assistance I will begin paying you $600 a month apon you leaving our home or till a judge approves a formal seperation agreement. I will add you to my health insurance when you get me your paperwork but I ask you reimburse me. As for the cell phone You may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or see your own plan elsewhere.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with <OM> . I simply cannot be in contract with you any longer without your recommiting to the M. This separation is a necessity to preserve my love for you and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery!

I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation from OM. Until that time I will continue to pray for our family and us.

In my mind I will keep the vision of us takeing those trips together and loving each other in a M that both our needs are being met I still love you today; I just can not be with you or help you until you are willing to recommit to the M.

Your loving H
BH

================================================

This is borrowed heavily from the PB letters in the notable posts section.

As far as entry into PB I emotionally can actually take more. With my wife withdrawing though I feel I cant take the risk of calling off my D complaint. I want to give her more time to decide but feel its in my best interest to give her this time in a PB scenario.

The risk is too high that she will string me along inevitably risking my bar to alimony and custodial parent plee. While this isnt the optimal entry into PB I just do not have the confidence that she will ever come back to the light. I feel my WW will be a renter in our M as is.

PB will let her hit rock bottom and I will find out if she is truelly committed to the M.

With the OMs transfer to Europe I simply cant risk her getting custody and taking DD5 away from the country and from all her family.

If I go to PB I will likely fire a parting shot at OM through his command. Ill send his command the evidence and claim he contacted her again. I cant really prove it but it doesnt really matter since I will still get my violating a direct order claim addressed.

Honestly I dont think he has contacted her but i dont care. Why not if im going to a PB situation anyway when i have doubts that she will ever really make a good try at recovery.

==========================================

As far as the rest of the ever shrinking PA string I did a little good today.

We were cordial at the house. i brought her home her favorite coffee from starbucks. She enjoyed it. From there I left to take DD5 to Vacation bible school. I hung out at my parents for a bit. She has already left when i got back. Gonna send her a Good night text and hit the sack.

Ill post some boundaries for yall to have a cut on tommorow in case she does want to come back to the M. Hope springs eternal.

Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 04:00 AM
YEG, i have no constructive criticism at all. nothing to add or subtract. if this letter doesn't prompt a change of heart, nothing will. well, maybe plan b will. and not to be a crass materialist, but maybe that $600 a month will. i like the diplomatic way you phrased the cell phone bit, too.

i haven't stepped in w/ any of my typical Pollyannisms lately because sometimes you guys just need to talk man-to-man. you've got other BHs' take on it, but YOU know your wife. i think if you truly believed you'd married the wrong woman, you'd have thrown in the towel long ago.

i think the fellows would agree that this letter shows a healthy level of enough-of-your-bull****; i don't like the term indifference because you're not indifferent, you're just prepared to live a happy life with or without her, and it won't break you if she jumps ship.

the onus is on her now. poo or get off the pot, WW. glad to see you've got your conditions for reconciliation firm in your mind, can't wait to critique.

stay strong, sir.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 04:25 AM
The letter to Plan B shows YEG has a lot of class and is a nice guy.

In my life I have seen many controlling women that gravitate to nice men. I still think that YEG and the wife are not a match.

I believe the letter is way too nice and this is to be expected from a gentleman like YEG. The words are so nice that the WW may think that the letter is a bluff and not pay much attention.

I personally prefer a dry approach in a polite manner. I would add an explanation, but I would make sure it is not flowery.

WW believes she has YEG in her pocket or under her shoe. She will take YEG for granted as long as YEG shows any sign of being very available to her.

Romance 101 dictates that too much availability kills the passion or interest in many relationships. What makes a relationship exciting is the possibility of not having a secure relationship or competition. In fact, the competition of OP often creates that desire of the betrayed spouse to bond again with the wayward spouse.

If WW ever comes back it will be because YEG intends to divorce her.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 04:28 AM
The vets will probably be by later to modify your letter, so hang onto it.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 04:48 AM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
The letter to Plan B shows YEG has a lot of class and is a nice guy.

In my life I have seen many controlling women that gravitate to nice men. I still think that YEG and the wife are not a match.

I believe the letter is way too nice and this is to be expected from a gentleman like YEG. The words are so nice that the WW may think that the letter is a bluff and not pay much attention.


I personally prefer a dry approach in a polite manner. I would add an explanation, but I would make sure it is not flowery.

WW believes she has YEG in her pocket or under her shoe. She will take YEG for granted as long as YEG shows any sign of being very available to her.

Romance 101 dictates that too much availability kills the passion or interest in many relationships. What makes a relationship exciting is the possibility of not having a secure relationship or competition. In fact, the competition of OP often creates that desire of the betrayed spouse to bond again with the wayward spouse.

If WW ever comes back it will be because YEG intends to divorce her.

Stan the Man. I haven't read up on your thread, but i like your take on this situation. actually, no, i HATE your take on this situation, but only because i don't want to believe that's WW is irredeemable. the only part i disagree w/ in your quote above is the bit in bold there. i thought the letter showed admirable restraint. i couldn't write a classy plan b letter. i would grit my teeth and bear it until the only coherent words i could manage would be, like, " eff you, get out of my house."

the part i agree with most is your parting sentiment--
"if WW ever comes back it will be because YEG intends to divorce her."

i told him before, some people can't EVOKE their own pain--they can't come to a point where they say, "OK, self, you've screwed up. let's look at alllll the ways in which you've screwed up. let's think long and hard about the import of your actions. and now let's figure out how you can make amends." some people have to have pain handed to them by an outside party. if the threat of impending loss is what it takes to snap her back to reality, so be it, if she's willing to straighten up and fly straight.

i also think YEG's inherent niceness, which we all recognize, means that he can graciously bow out of Plan A with the right motive: preserving the love he has left for W. do we want him to tough it out until he can't help but hate her? GOD no. he's aware of his internal threshold for bs, and he's stepping out while he still has it in him to be kind.

yes, it sounds to me from YEG's posts that WW loves internal drama and thinks that star-crossed love must be the truest and most intense of all. i admit as a woman w/ a taste for bad guys that availability and security are less intriguing than distance and indifference. but why should YEG alter his personality and go from pillar-of-strength, man-for-all-seasons type guy to some type of black-hat villain just to appeal to her sense of mystery? becoming a man he's not to satisfy her whims...that sounds to me like the definition of wussy-phipped.[/b]
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 12:09 PM
Quote
if this letter doesn't prompt a change of heart, nothing will. well, maybe plan b will.

Maybe. I have to go through the process. The beauty of it is that it works either way. Her indifference is killing my love for her.

I LOVE roses. I have over 200 in my yard so ill compare my love to her to a rose.

My love is like a rose on the bush. When I discovered the affair that rose was plucked from the bush. Instead of just dropping it on the ground and stomping on it with AOs and DJs I choose instead to bring it inside and place it in water by educating myself and choosing instead to fight for her. Even in the vase the roses luster is starting to fade now. The petals are drooping and a few have dropped off. The rose just can't survive forever off the bush or me away from my mate. So now I have to take the drastic actions of PB. I must remove the rose from water itself the last connection with its host. I goes in a book away from the light in a dark safe place. No damage will be done to it since its protected from the elements. The petals will stay attached and the color will remain. Eventually though the rose will dry and lose all life but will retain its form and integrity. The insides will be empty though. Thats where I am atm. Im heading to Plan B. Eventually though my love for her will dry out. Its a very gradual process though. Ill emerge ok either way though.

Quote
and not to be a crass materialist, but maybe that $600 a month will.

Here is how I derived that number. I went to the child support calculator for my state. I inputed a salary of about 80K. Thats my average without overtime. I inputed a salary of 0$ for her. There is a very good chance the judge will deem her income though since she lost her job for cause 2 weeks before I filed. It also inputted me paying her insurance. So im failing conservative in my child support calculations. I do NOT want to present myself to the judge as a deadbeat dad either way.

$600 is peanuts for her. Just a couple months ago she made 50K a year. Ive been paying her $400 bucks a month just to watch her own child. So she will only get an extra $200 a month AND have to cover her health and car insurance (oops gotta include that in the letter WEEE). Looks like that $600 a month isnt going to go very far. Especially when she has at least 11K in credit card debt now.

I know that her parents wont let her go hungry. They wont let DD5 suffer. Ive talked to her dad and I think he is going to let her feel some of this pain and repercussions.

Quote
i haven't stepped in w/ any of my typical Pollyannisms lately because sometimes you guys just need to talk man-to-man.
Go ahead. I havent totally given up on her yet. Im just preparing a plan. Having a plan empowers me. Plan A only works 15% of the time. Going to Plan B happens. May be better in the long run anyways.

Quote
I believe the letter is way too nice and this is to be expected from a gentleman like YEG. The words are so nice that the WW may think that the letter is a bluff and not pay much attention.

When she gets served divorce papers and has to go to a temporary hearing for a separation agreement that she may lose custody and have to pay ME will get her attention.

Quote
WW believes she has YEG in her pocket or under her shoe. She will take YEG for granted as long as YEG shows any sign of being very available to her.

Romance 101 dictates that too much availability kills the passion or interest in many relationships. What makes a relationship exciting is the possibility of not having a secure relationship or competition. In fact, the competition of OP often creates that desire of the betrayed spouse to bond again with the wayward spouse.

I honestly dont know what she is thinking. Ive been married to her for 7 years and still dont know her thoughts. I dont think she is thinking. I dont think she has any plan but survival. I think she has mantra, catch phrases and other slogans but thats it.

The competition of the OM DID put a fire under my [censored]. Funny thing is she didnt want a committed relationship with me until I started dating another woman. Maybe life without me will wake her up.

Quote
he's aware of his internal threshold for bs, and he's stepping out while he still has it in him to be kind.
In all honesty I have plenty of PA left in me. I could go several months. Her increasing indifference and the risk of dropping the D complaint is my entry criteria.

Quote
it sounds to me from YEG's posts that WW loves internal drama and thinks that star-crossed love must be the truest and most intense of all.
I really dont think the OM has much to do with this. I havent been able to find any contact. I think she doubts her resolve to save the M. I left all the OM crap in the letter in case he is there still just way underground. If he is not it doesnt do any harm.

Quote
i admit as a woman w/ a taste for bad guys that availability and security are less intriguing than distance and indifference. but why should YEG alter his personality and go from pillar-of-strength, man-for-all-seasons type guy to some type of black-hat villain just to appeal to her sense of mystery? becoming a man he's not to satisfy her whims.[/b]

Im 33 years old. Im the person I am. Im not going to sell out my values and ideals to make myself attractive to a woman who has been carrying on an A for at least 2 years. I will meet her needs since I want to do that. Im not going to kick babies and rob banks to give her a high.
YEG,

I don't agree with your financial support. She wants to act single, then she can leave and support her own a$$. Be a man, grow a pair, and quit trying to soften the blow to someone that clearly needs the 2x4. 2x4s are all that WW's deserve. Some wake up when whacked with them, others down't.

You're also far too generous with your son.

It's really simple:

Get out, get a lawyer if you wish, but my son and I will continue to be a family. Until then, get out and don't come back until you get your head out of your a$$.

Getting your head out means cutting off all contact, full access to your passwords, accounts, and contacts, and total transperency on your part. I'm done playing games and walking on egg shells.

Contact X if you need to get a message to me regarding DD5, otherwise don't contact me until you agree to meet all of my requirements to come back.

There's no negotiating on this. You're destroying what little good will I have left for you. I'm taking this step to protect what little is left.

I'm not supporting you in any way and I'm protecting family assets from your behavior. If you wish to continue your adultery, then you can fund it yourself. I'm not putting a dime to supporting that.

My lawyer will be contacting you soon to arrange your child support payments.

YEG

In other word, YEG, quit trying to soften her landing. Let her smack into the bottom and let her know you have balls the size of Jupiter.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 01:57 PM
In all fairness to YEG, I think that is coming. He's just waiting for the legal aspect to run its course so he can get custody and any child support established (no spousal support), so he can go dark and not have to work on anything legally. I get the sense he's bot just about another month or two in him before he goes to plan B and cuts his WW off completely.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 02:07 PM
Quote
I honestly dont know what she is thinking. Ive been married to her for 7 years and still dont know her thoughts. I dont think she is thinking. I dont think she has any plan but survival. I think she has mantra, catch phrases and other slogans but thats it.

The competition of the OM DID put a fire under my [censored]. Funny thing is she didnt want a committed relationship with me until I started dating another woman. Maybe life without me will wake her up.

YEG:

The more I read your words the greater my conviction that WW is not a match. Within this context I believe you should stop Plan A and immediately go Plan B.

Realize that you can live without WW quite well and the reason you want to bond back with her is the OP effect on "hysterical or non-hysterical bonding". Your reaction to the affair is physiological and this is how humans react to competition.

What really bothers me is the fact that the roles are now 180 degrees apart:

At the onset you were the good guy and she used you as a sound board to put down OM (the soon to be husband at that time).

Later WW reconnects with former BF and he becomes OM. She tells OM about how awful you are and how she made a mistake by marrying you. These words were spoken more than once--------------do not doubt this.

What I get from the above is a woman that is self-centered and cannot process or understand the normal stages of a marriage where couples normally enter a period of calm and relaxation where there is no more relationship drama. It seems she thrives on the relationship drama. If she likes drama she will react positively to you as soon as you start divorce proceedings.

However, I believe you should not take her back even if she wants to come back once you initiate the divorce proceedings. In the end she will be herself and eventually repeat the cycle. As I said she is not a match.
I agree with the money! Even if the 600 a month is little, why give her anything? She is not your wife, the woman you married is far gone! Why support her in her A? My husband told me if I wanted to leave then I would get a job, he would not support me even if we were married for 7 years!

Sorry, the rest is good...not the 600 bucks a month part! I want u to take that out! smile

She wants to live single? Then by all means, let her live a single life smile
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 02:17 PM
Quote
Get out, get a lawyer if you wish, but my son and I will continue to be a family. Until then, get out and don't come back until you get your head out of your a$$.

Getting your head out means cutting off all contact, full access to your passwords, accounts, and contacts, and total transperency on your part. I'm done playing games and walking on egg shells.

I dont think that conforms with alot of the MB principles on the site. Thats a love buster. I am in plan a till I go plan b. I dont threaten her with whats coming. I just do it. Boundaries are important but they can only be discussed if she wants to come back.

Quote
I don't agree with your financial support.
Here are the facts. I work 50 hours a week and hour away from the house. She is unemployed and has been watching the kid every day. My mother watched DD5 when WW use to work. She cant watch her every day anymore. So WW will need to watch her some days. So split 50/50 custody is appropriate.

When I input the values for those in the child support calculator using split custody (which will not likly be granted most likely one or the other as primary) I got taht figure. $600.

Quote
In other word, YEG, quit trying to soften her landing. Let her smack into the bottom and let her know you have balls the size of Jupiter.
Im giving her what is fair. I'm not going to jeapordize my custody and relationship with FIL by being unfair. FIL is one of the biggest influences on her and will be huge in PB. I have to be fair to get that support.

As far as timetable to PB that depends on how far I can hold off serving the papers.Ill go PB prior to her getting served.


Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 02:22 PM
Quote
I agree with the money! Even if the 600 a month is little, why give her anything? She is not your wife, the woman you married is far gone! Why support her in her A? My husband told me if I wanted to leave then I would get a job, he would not support me even if we were married for 7 years!
Its child support not spousal support.

As far as the money ill talk to my lawyer and see what she says is appropriate. She wont get anything till she leaves the house.
If the money is only to help your child, then dont give it to your WW you think she cares? NO! Give the money to your parents or her parents and say "Ok I am giving you this money to make sure that my child is safe with the mother."

And the whole she's my wife and she needs 50/50, yes after the D you can by all means give her any $$ the judge says, but when she is not loyal and going around sleeping with OM, that is not your responsibility to financially take care of her, that was HER choice!

I understand that you work long hours and she took care of the child during that time, but look what happened? She found another man to fulfill her needs, are you really saying that you will support her by giving her 600 bucks a month, so she can still have money and go out with her man? I don't think so!

Give the money to whom ever she is staying with... which I hope its her parents! If not, and if she is going to stay with the OM, then she shouldn't be having the child 50/50 of the time, you want your child to see the OM with your wife? But if she will be staying with her parents, then tell her that the money will go to them to support your child, NOT HER AFFAIR!!
My lawyer told me something when I started my mess: IF THERE IS NO CHILD SUPPORT ORDER, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT!

So now you're falling into one of the other traps I fell into.

The reality is that you will have your own life and she will have hers.

That means that you will have to arrange for child care on the days that your son is with you and she will have to figure out what to do for herself.

That is plain reality. So giving her money when she's out gives her too much credit. If you really believe those $600 will go to your son, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Those $600 will go to support her affair.

Again, I understand where you're coming from. But you're not getting it. She doesn't deserve Mr. Nice Guy. She deserves Mr. Get the He77 Out of My House.

So perhaps you don't word things as harshly as I did.

But stop this idiotic idea of giving her money to support her affair, because that is exactly what you will be doing.

You may as well offer to sit by the bed with her and the OM so you can go fetch them water after they're done. That's exactly what you're doing by offering her money.

Shake off the Mr. Nice Guy. Your WW doesn't like Mr. Nice Guy.

I know I sound harsh. But trust me when I tell you that Mr. Nice Guy and easing her fall don't lead to anything.

Get yourself a daycare for the days you work. Offer it to her for the days she will have to work.

Go for full custody of your son and make her pay for CS. Show her that she will lose EVERYTHING by going down the path of divorce.

Make divorce as ugly looking as possible.

Stop being nice!

Posted By: ElunaInNC Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 03:33 PM
YEG,

I think what they are trying to say is stop Plan Aing your Plan B letter. Plan A her when she is with you, but don't try to use Plan A in your letter.

Most likely they are right that the $600/month will go towards the A. Perhaps it would be better stated that you will pay a daycare center directly, or you will repay FIL up to $600 for expenses while DD5 is staying with them.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 04:14 PM
Do not give WW money. It will only be used so she can go bang the OM.

When you have the kid for one week the expenses are yours. Her week it's her problem to come up with the money.

Plan B letter is too long you need to get to the point. WW's affair and reufusing to stop it has caused you to go NC with WW.

You want to recover the marriage but can not do so with the OM in the picture. For the marriage to be recovered WW has to go NC with the OM, get STD testing, be transparent with cell and computer so that NC can be verified.

During this time of NC all contact must be done through a third party. No exceptions. Unless their is an emergency as a child has to be hospitalized.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Do not give WW money. It will only be used so she can go bang the OM.

When you have the kid for one week the expenses are yours. Her week it's her problem to come up with the money.

Plan B letter is too long you need to get to the point. WW's affair and reufusing to stop it has caused you to go NC with WW.

Everyone I think the OM is out of the picture and about to be deployed overseas. And YEG has filed for divorce and is considering having her served in the next few weeks before his time runs out to do so. I think the $600 he mentioned is what he anticipates to be ordered to pay. YEG, you may very well be ordered to pay cs in some amount, but I would NOT mention this in your plan B letter.

Will you have to have a temp hearing to get her to stay away from the house? Are you asking for full custody? Do you plan to let your WW watch dd while you work?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 05:50 PM
Quote
Everyone I think the OM is out of the picture and about to be deployed overseas.
I have snooped and searched and looked for contact and I haven't found any. The only evidence I have is her appearing to withdraw further and further.
Quote
YEG has filed for divorce and is considering having her served in the next few weeks before his time runs out to do so.
That is correct. If I don't file then the complaint gets dropped and that can be interpreted as forgiveness of the A.
Quote
I think the $600 he mentioned is what he anticipates to be ordered to pay. YEG, you may very well be ordered to pay cs in some amount, but I would NOT mention this in your plan B letter.
I wont get sole custody. I might get primary custodian but the wife will be allowed half the time with DD5. I dont want to cut DD5 off from her as that is bad for DD5. The complaint is VERY specific on NO BOYFRIENDS around DD5 while we are still married. That is very common in my state and judges take a very dim view on anyone that violates that. DD5 hasnt seen OM in about 9 months I believe so I have no reason to believe that WW will introduce OM to DD5 again especially when she knows im tracking her. She knows I have a PI retained.

Quote
Will you have to have a temp hearing to get her to stay away from the house?
Yes. I will move into my brothers/mothers house until then. It will only be a few weeks.

Quote
Are you asking for full custody?
Im asking for primary physical custodian with her having DD5 50% of the time.

Quote
Do you plan to let your WW watch dd while you work?
On her days yes. On my days my M will watch her.

======================================================

Here is my second shot at the PB letter.

Dear WW,

It pains me to have to write this. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. The direction that I must go now is not one of choice but of necessity. I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize the error of my ways and have learned from those so I can prevent them in the future. The past 2 months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. Before I lose any more of the thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take steps to protect them.

Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. To this end I ask you move out the house asap. I do not wish for either of our bonds with DD5 to suffer any further so I propose we split time with DD5 equally. I will take DD5 thursday, Friday and Saturday. You can take DD5 sunday, monday and tuesday. I will have DD5 one wendnesday you the next. I also will call DD5 every night that I dont have her to tell her good night and I invite you to do the same. I ask that we use MIL, FIL or M and F for these exchanges and to make that nightly call. FIL has agreed to act as an intermediary for us. Any message you would like to relay to me I ask go through him.

Child support will be provided as appropriate for the custody arrangements. I will also add you to my health insurance when you get me your paperwork but I ask you reimburse me. As for the cell phone you may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or seek your own plan elsewhere.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with <OM> . I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation from OM and recommitting to the M. Until that time I will continue to pray for our family and us.

Your loving H
BH
clap That one is WAY better smile
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 06:06 PM
"With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One, in which we both feel loved, safe, honored and cherished. I simply can not continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage until you completely break from OM and recommit to our M. It has become too painful."

i'd have left that bit in, just to make the cause-and-effect really clear to her.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
Will you have to have a temp hearing to get her to stay away from the house?
Yes. I will move into my brothers/mothers house until then. It will only be a few weeks

No, no, no! Do. not. leave your house. Why would you do that? Do not leave your house! You will ruin your chances of being given residency.


======================================================

Originally Posted by YEG
Here is my second shot at the PB letter.

Dear WW,

It pains me to have to write this. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. The direction that I must go now is not one of choice but of necessity. I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize the error of my ways and have learned from those so I can prevent them in the future. The past 2 months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. Before I lose any more of the thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take steps to protect them.

Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. To this end I ask you move out the house asap. I do not wish for either of our bonds with DD5 to suffer any further so I propose we split time with DD5 equally. I will take DD5 thursday, Friday and Saturday. You can take DD5 sunday, monday and tuesday. I will have DD5 one wendnesday you the next. I also will call DD5 every night that I dont have her to tell her good night and I invite you to do the same. I ask that we use MIL, FIL or M and F for these exchanges and to make that nightly call. FIL has agreed to act as an intermediary for us. Any message you would like to relay to me I ask go through him.

Child support will be provided as appropriate for the custody arrangements. I will also add you to my health insurance when you get me your paperwork but I ask you reimburse me. As for the cell phone you may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or seek your own plan elsewhere.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with <OM> . I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation from OM and recommitting to the M. Until that time I will continue to pray for our family and us.

Your loving H
BH

Your revised PB letter is much better, but don't mention financial support at all. Let her head spin off worrying aboaut it until the hearing.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 06:27 PM
Don't leave your house. Wait to give her the plan B letter once she is gone, but don't leave in the meantime.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 06:49 PM

Quote
No, no, no! Do. not. leave your house. Why would you do that? Do not leave your house! You will ruin your chances of being given residency.

My lawyer assures me that since ive filed already leaving wont be held against me. Im not abandoning her since its under a courts supervision.

As far as retaining the house its not really an issue. There is no equity in it and she cant cover the payments.

Quote
Don't leave your house. Wait to give her the plan B letter once she is gone, but don't leave in the meantime.

Here is my dilemma

I will have to serve her the papers well before the temp hearing. At least 10 days. I dont want her to see PB coming so I wanted to start PB prior to her being served. I cant PB and be at the house at the same time.

===================================================

WW actually returned a call today. She was in a pretty good mood. I invited her to do a couple massage with me tomorrow but she declined. She chatted about DD5 a bit. Seemed fairly warm to me for a change. She is going out with a friend tonite. Pretty sure its her old work friend and she is pro BS.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
No, no, no! Do. not. leave your house. Why would you do that? Do not leave your house! You will ruin your chances of being given residency.

My lawyer assures me that since ive filed already leaving wont be held against me. Im not abandoning her since its under a courts supervision.

As far as retaining the house its not really an issue. There is no equity in it and she cant cover the payments.

Quote
Don't leave your house. Wait to give her the plan B letter once she is gone, but don't leave in the meantime.

Here is my dilemma

I will have to serve her the papers well before the temp hearing. At least 10 days. I dont want her to see PB coming so I wanted to start PB prior to her being served. I cant PB and be at the house at the same time.

===================================================

WW actually returned a call today. She was in a pretty good mood. I invited her to do a couple massage with me tomorrow but she declined. She chatted about DD5 a bit. Seemed fairly warm to me for a change. She is going out with a friend tonite. Pretty sure its her old work friend and she is pro BS.

The goal of plan B is not to catch someone by surprise. Just stay in your home for your kids sake and to claim your home as your rightful domain. It doesn't matter if it is a surprise. Plan B is not some grand scheme.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
Sheļæ½ll be expected to work for herself and they will both be expected to get appropriate child care that they either both use or they have individual care.

If she doesnļæ½t work, then YEGļæ½s lawyer can file for voluntary impoverishment.

YEG, I too made the mistake youļæ½re on the path to making. I thought that if I didnļæ½t make the divorce a big fight that it would maximize our chances to get back together. I couldnļæ½t have been more wrong. Once sheļæ½s officially divorced sheļæ½ll happily continue her waywardness since she has no further obligation to you. All you will have done is made it easier.

Contesting it and making it a fight for both custody and property and putting her on the defense with charges of adultery shows major consequences.

Trust me when I tell you that you will not be ļæ½friendsļæ½ with your WW. As time goes on, your anger towards what she has done will simply grow. Youļæ½ll be disgusted over all of this. When the dust settles, the odds are high youļæ½ll feel nothing towards her and she will simply become a person you interact with when you have to in regards to your son.

Do I believe you should have 50/50 custody. Yes. But right now youļæ½re dealing with a fight that is all about appearances. Letting her know that she stands a chance to lose EVERYTHING is a arrow in your quiver to shake her out of her fantasy. That is what filing for the most and throwing her out on her butt is all about. This includes filing for full custody. She must believe you're willing to do this and that there is a chance it could happen!

If it goes down the path of inevitable divorce, then by all means, be Mr. Nice Guy then. But for now this is about the appearance that you will not take things lying down and arenļæ½t going to make it easy.

Your eventual outcome might be an agreement with 50/50. We're dealing with a psychological battle right now and the intent is to shake her out of her fantasy. THAT is why I'm telling you to be Mr. Harda$$. It isn't because I want you to crucify her. It has to do with shaking her awake. The way to do that to a WW is to throw the book at her.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 07:22 PM
I agree. Even if you have no chance in hell of getting full custody, at least file for it so she thinks it may be a possibility. Afterall, isn't she the one who said she's not even going to get a lawyer? Make her have to scrounge up the money to pay for one or risk losing full custody. If she realizes she's in store for a long, expensive, and drawn out legal battle, she might give in and commit. Your WW seems like a "path of least resistance" type person. She'll always take the easy way out. So if you make working on the marriage the "easy way out," you have a better chance of saving it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 07:40 PM
Thanks for the posts guys. Here is what my lawyer told me.

1- Its NOT likely that the judge will order out the child. Especially with the mother not working. Even under these circumstances. This is different from what she led me to believe before.

2- She is saying we can always dismiss this complaint and refile. It wouldnt really hurt me that much in the long run. Once again she was totally against this before. Bleh again.

3- Custody will be a problem. She says its unlikely I will get it even with these character issues. With my shift worker job they will likely see her as the primary care provider.

4- If WW stays in the house there is a good chance they will order me to pay the mortgage to preserve that asset. So ill be paying for the house anyways. Bills she would have to pay for water lights and all that stuff. They could take this into consideration for child support. They could choose to ignore it as well.

All in all NOT what I wanted to hear. Only good news is most likely I got a while longer before I have to serve her or anything. She said if I could get her to agree to leave that it would be much easier for the house stuff.

So ATM im going to keep PAing her. She really isnt that bad to deal with. Just distant. Ill see where it goes.

Quote
YEG, I too made the mistake youļæ½re on the path to making. I thought that if I didnļæ½t make the divorce a big fight that it would maximize our chances to get back together. I couldnļæ½t have been more wrong.

Maybe it would be better to just drop it and have her file then drag my feet. Force her to do the heavy lifting. Force her to get a lawyer. Go back to the original 6 months of PA timeframe. Or at least till OM is gone from the country.

Quote
Afterall, isn't she the one who said she's not even going to get a lawyer? Make her have to scrounge up the money to pay for one or risk losing full custody.
If she files then she loses any high ground on me going for custody.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 07:47 PM
Why would custody be that big of an issue. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but your WW isn't even living in your house anymore. Hanging out at the house is not the same thing. When is the last time she spent the night? Seems to me like she voluntarily conceeded the house to you.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm not a big fan of your lawyer. You should try and contact Eph525 and consult with his lawyer. He got full custody. I have his contact info. (BTW, he's from the Greenville/Spartanburg area).
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 07:57 PM
Quote
Why would custody be that big of an issue. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but your WW isn't even living in your house anymore. Hanging out at the house is not the same thing. When is the last time she spent the night? Seems to me like she voluntarily conceeded the house to you.

She doesnt always go to her parents house. Just sometimes. Other times she goes into her room. I welcome her to stay at the house when she wants to. Last time was 2 or 3 nights ago i think.

Quote
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm not a big fan of your lawyer. You should try and contact Eph525 and consult with his lawyer. He got full custody. I have his contact info. (BTW, he's from the Greenville/Spartanburg area).

I ignored alot of what she said at first since I was fully committed to pa. If I had forced the wife out from the very beginning when the WW offered id been in better shape from a legal standpoint.

Still hoping I dont have to do the divorce thing anyways. I might be painting things worse than they appear. I dont know if she will ever commit to the MB ideals though.

Regardless I really dont feel like rushing into a PB situation. Especially if the conditions arent going to be favorable. Better to just PA till I cant anymore.
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 08:07 PM
Here's my take,

It's a very risky thing to try to mix divorce proceedings with hopes for reconciliation.

To come out with a fair settlement, especially for men, you have to be all business, well prepared, and ready to go the distance. It is now a business deal and you need to take emotions out of it.

Going through the proceedings with hopes of reconciliation keep the emotions in play and soften your position. This will come back to bite you in the end when final settlement is reached.

If you want advice on how to win at the divorce game, I've learned a lot in the last few weeks and can help. But, that advice won't be MB's and it won't help you win your WW back.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Here's my take,

It's a very risky thing to try to mix divorce proceedings with hopes for reconciliation.

To come out with a fair settlement, especially for men, you have to be all business, well prepared, and ready to go the distance. It is now a business deal and you need to take emotions out of it.

Going through the proceedings with hopes of reconciliation keep the emotions in play and soften your position. This will come back to bite you in the end when final settlement is reached.

If you want advice on how to win at the divorce game, I've learned a lot in the last few weeks and can help. But, that advice won't be MB's and it won't help you win your WW back.

This is SPOT ON GENIUS.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/24/10 08:27 PM
Quote
Here's my take,

It's a very risky thing to try to mix divorce proceedings with hopes for reconciliation.

To come out with a fair settlement, especially for men, you have to be all business, well prepared, and ready to go the distance. It is now a business deal and you need to take emotions out of it.

Going through the proceedings with hopes of reconciliation keep the emotions in play and soften your position. This will come back to bite you in the end when final settlement is reached.

If you want advice on how to win at the divorce game, I've learned a lot in the last few weeks and can help. But, that advice won't be MB's and it won't help you win your WW back.

I dont want a divorce. The only reason I even filed was it was 2 days after I confronted her and I felt I had too.

I was pushing it now was for the separation agreement and to try to starve her out a bit. Now it looks like that wont happen as well. So im going to stay on the MB bandwagon a bit longer I think.
So is she out of the house?

That does work in your favor.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 01:50 AM
Quote
So is she out of the house?

That does work in your favor.


some nights yes. Some nights no. She is about half and half.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 02:04 AM
Quote
I was pushing it now was for the separation agreement and to try to starve her out a bit. Now it looks like that wont happen as well. So im going to stay on the MB bandwagon a bit longer I think.

YEG:

Regarding folks that divorce:

For most people divorce comes 2-3 years later----------sometimes much later. Very few divorce shortly after D-day.

Shortly after D-day I was completely paralyzed. I admire the fact that you did so much immediately after D-day. I also admire your tenacity with a WW that is unresponsive.

In any event, I suspect it will be a while before you proceed with the divorce. It must be very hard to initiate so quickly and this situation will play itself out over the next couple of years. Nevertheless, I can tell you that the prognosis is not good and at your age and with the kind of WW you have a divorce is the best solution.

But, what we say is meaningless---------you must go through all the stages and it is very early in the ball game.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 02:19 AM
So back on plan A.

Guess I never really left it. I never LBed or did anything against it. Just thought I was transitioning earlier than i thought.

Anyhows it went as good as possible. I ran then went home. Called her if she wanted anything. She needed milk for the house so I brought her that and her favorite cookies and some baby corn she likes to eat.

She has apparently been feeling under the weather lately. Didnt know that. Think that may be some of the reasons for her detachment some. Tonite she told me and acted fairly nice towards me. I got some pizza for us. The pizza place screwed up the order though. I ended up overeatting like crazy. It was just so tasty though. Good thing ive been running so much.

Seems genuinely excited about sunday. Ive set it up pretty nice. Im taking us about an hour away for our anniversary. We are going to the art museum there, maybe a choclatier and end up in a fairly upscale resteraunt. I have us reservations for early in the night so we can do it all in one day and drive back that night. She knows where we are eatting but has never been there. I also contacted the resteraunt. I arranged for them to order her a dozen roses for the table. They will give them too her when we get there. Also asked for a nice table with a view of the street. We had a really good time last big date out watching people wander the street. Maybe we can do that again.

We ended up watching an episode of a cooking show we watch together. Overall wasnt an exciting night but was a solid performance.

She ended up leaving just in time. When she told me good night I was getting upset. I didnt show it though. She probably could tell anyways since im not good at being decieving.

While I sat here typing this up the WW actually texted me good night. I thikn thats the first time she has done that in a long time. Im a little shocked.

Anyways maybe all isnt lost. Im sure my perception of how she is gets painted different with whatever mood im in that day. I just hope for a good weekend. Supposedly she is working with her dad tommorow so he might have some info for me tommorow night.

We have both been voicing our frustration over how long it is taking her to make a decision. Maybe the deadline at the end of the month will help. Hopefully she will open up to him some. He claims she is slowly saying more.

If anyone has something Polyanna to say im all ears.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 02:27 AM
Quote
Shortly after D-day I was completely paralyzed. I admire the fact that you did so much immediately after D-day. I also admire your tenacity with a WW that is unresponsive.

I just felt i HAD to do something. So I made a mistake and went to a lawyer too early I believe. Plan A is affecting her. I just wonder if its enough. She may be jsut too far gone. She may have jsut lost her moral compass for good. If all the positive PAing im doing and her family pressuring her cant help nothing will.

Quote
Nevertheless, I can tell you that the prognosis is not good and at your age and with the kind of WW you have a divorce is the best solution.

Is it ever good? I guess times when you catch them and they immediatly jump into hysterical bonding ill do anything mode it is. If I thought I could work a better plan B and be more effective id by pushing harder right now. With what I found out from the lawyer though I think I can be more effective and comfortable in PA. At least till she finally makes me cash my chips in.

Quote
But, what we say is meaningless---------you must go through all the stages and it is very early in the ball game.


I just wish i could see 3 years in the future and jump ahead.
Posted By: Noname2 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 04:47 AM
I don't think I have posted to you yet but have been following your thread. Every day when I read I feel your pain as I was there. Two separations for us the first was her idea and it was just to have her space to continue her crap. The second I finally had enough and said F-it. But now 1 1/2 years later things could not be better.

When my FWW was trying to decide what she wanted it was because she had something else on the side. I couldn't find anything to prove it was going on but I just felt it in my gut. I confronted the first OM and that was it for him. But she soon found another OM to replace him. The way you say she isn't making a decision makes me think either she is still involved with OM or there is a new one.

Some waywards get a pre-paid cell phone mine used a phone card. I know you have a keylogger but make sure you are digging in her stuff when you have a chance.

Your FIL sounds like a great person to have on your side. Without my FWW families support I dont' think I would have stuck it out.

You are running your plan A great from what I read on here. But I can tell you that my FWW never responded to any of my changes until I would say screw it and be ready to move on. It took me way too long to finally say I am done here unless you make these changes and end all this bullsh*t. Not until then did she finally wake up and see what she was about to lose.

Bottom line is stand up for yourself. If you don't want a divorce fine but let her know that you have had enough of being jerked around. Tell her to get her [censored] home and work on the marriage or you are moving forward with the divorce. Making demands may not be the MB way but I think that is what you need to do here. It worked for me and seems to be the only way to get through to a WW.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 11:24 AM
Quote
You are running your plan A great from what I read on here. But I can tell you that my FWW never responded to any of my changes until I would say screw it and be ready to move on. It took me way too long to finally say I am done here unless you make these changes and end all this bullsh*t. Not until then did she finally wake up and see what she was about to lose.

Bottom line is stand up for yourself. If you don't want a divorce fine but let her know that you have had enough of being jerked around. Tell her to get her [censored] home and work on the marriage or you are moving forward with the divorce. Making demands may not be the MB way but I think that is what you need to do here. It worked for me and seems to be the only way to get through to a WW.

I understand what your saying. Its definatly not the MB ways but it may come to that. Right now I believe my best chance is to follow the MB program. People have success when they follow the program. I just dont feel that freelancing is appropriate yet.

Right now im depending on FIL to provide the hard pressure. Im just focusing on PA. If she gives me an answer one way or another that will be an good entry point into new tactics.

Like I said before maybe she has to hit rock bottom. I would just bounce her now but I dont want her to stay in the house. So I gotta get her out first.

Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 11:47 AM
Demanding that your spouse ends their affair IS the MB way. Giving an ultimatum is not. Giving your WW a deadline when she needs to make up her mind, is not. Telling her that there is no infinite timeline that you will put up with her crap IS MB. As long as you tell your WW these things without LBing, it IS MB.

DrH has said that there are certain times in a marriage where demands ARE necessary and that in the case of infidelity, that is MOST definitely one.

Yeg, I am glad that you have a solid Plan and that you are executing it to the best of your abilities. I hear a bit of expectation creeping in though. Remember that there is no magic button to push and no magic amount of times to push it. It is not until a WS has become a FWS that they have let their BS know what effected them in Plan A and Plan B.

I think of it the way that children remember their childhood. I remember certain things from my childhood and my siblings remember others. Funny, since we lived in the same house and had most of the same experiences. I make sure to create as many memories for my children that are positive, I don't know what they will remember. Same thing for a WS.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 12:00 PM
Quote
I hear a bit of expectation creeping in though. Remember that there is no magic button to push and no magic amount of times to push it.

Ive had problems with that. Im getting better though. Partially because im getting frustrated and my declining balance in my LB$ is making me not care as much. Im doing the things that I should do in PA still. I just dont expect them to work as much anymore.

Quote
Telling her that there is no infinite timeline that you will put up with her crap IS MB. As long as you tell your WW these things without LBing, it IS MB.
Ive told her those things exactly. She knows that contact with the OM isnt acceptable. SHe insists there is no contact (we know what words are worth) and I cant find any.

What she is claiming she is doing now is figuring out if she has enough love for me left to try recovery. If she has the energy. If she decides she does then she will be willing to talk to steve and stuff.

Quote
It is not until a WS has become a FWS that they have let their BS know what effected them in Plan A and Plan B.
I truelly hope that I get to have that conversation some day.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 07:36 PM
Well finally got my answer.

I asked the WW today if she had made her decision. She said she had.

She is moving out of the house permanently. She wants a divorve.

I know what i do by the plan. I followed it.

I asked her if moving out of teh house is going to make her happy. She said she didnt know. Just what we are doing sint working for her. I asked her why she was giving up on DD5. I asked her if i just wasnt worth it.

She got really pissed when I brought up DD5. She told me she loved me but she jsut isnt happy doing this anymore. I told her i would being going for primary custody for DD5 so she didnt take her to europe. She got really pissed then. Thats pretty much when the conversation ended.

Im in my room crying now. Misrable. I feel uterally and completely unlovable and worthless.

I dont know WTF to do. I love her but I honestly dont want to fight a divorce. I should just say screw it and go PB, let the D train ride unless she pulls the emergency brake. Im really sad but not totally out of it.

I just feel stupid for even trying. I cant believe I had flowers for her all set up for our anniversary. Im 90% sure she only was going to make me happy one last time. Then drop the bomb on me afterwards.

I gave FIL a call heim sure is talking to her now. Who cares though. She is gone already. Hope she is nice and happy in her new life.

i on the other hand am misrable. What made me sucha terrible person that I not only get cheated on by the woman I loved more than anything in the world but then to not even geta chance to make it up.

At least I will ahve the comfort to know im going to leave her in squaller. She isnt going to get a dime from me. Maybe she will move out this weekend. Then i wont have to see her anymore. At least the limbo is over. She can go now and be nice and misrable and join the ranks of the pathetic.

ALl I know is at least for this moment I am done fighting it.
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 07:55 PM
Very sorry for you, YEG.

You have a choice to make now. Do YOU still want to fight for this marriage?? If yes, then let her move out, go to a very dark plan B, and delay the divorce proceedings the best you can.

If your answer is "no", you are done fighting for it, then you need to reach deep into your heart and flip a switch. It should become all business at that point and do what you need to to take the best care of yourself and DD5. Don't do anything out of spite, that won't help your case and won't be in the best interest of DD5. But do a ton of research, take ownership of your case, and be prepared!
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:00 PM
Quote
Well finally got my answer.

I asked the WW today if she had made her decision. She said she had.

She is moving out of the house permanently. She wants a divorve.

YEG:


I know you feel awful, but in the long run this is best for you.

This is better than spending 5-10 years chasing a marriage that will never amount to anything and wondering if she is still seeing someone else.

Look at it from this point of view:

Short term acute pain is better than long term pain with no good results at the end of the struggle.


You are a young man with your entire life ahead of you. This is extremely painful, but in the end you will be fine.

This is not about you! Do you realize she would have cheated to whomever she married. This has nothing to do with you.

You are also in the throes of the bonding that develops after D-day. This is a normal physiologic response probably related to sperm wars and it will pass.

Make sure you go NC with her. Healing is always faster after hermetic NC.

God Bless



Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:05 PM
Quote
You have a choice to make now.

I know. Im not going to do anything rashly. If im going to PB im going to wait till she is gone. That way I have the house.

The divorce papers happen when they happen. I wont speed them up.

My only decision is if I want to try to fight.

I honestly dont know what to do yet and Im going to think about it a few days.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:09 PM
Sorry for your pain, man. Look at the bright side. Now you'll probably be at least the custodial parent. After a year of separating from this awful person, you'll be much happier. Think of this as a get out of jail free card. She wasn't going to be a decent human being until she hit rock bottom. This will allow you to go to plan B AND get your custody and finances set. Who knows, after several months of plan B, she might realize she needs to change and will actually do it. Either way, you will never have to put up with her crap again.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
You have a choice to make now.

I know. Im not going to do anything rashly. If im going to PB im going to wait till she is gone. That way I have the house.

The divorce papers happen when they happen. I wont speed them up.

My only decision is if I want to try to fight.

I honestly dont know what to do yet and Im going to think about it a few days.

That's the beauty of plan B. You don't have to try to fight anymore. You just have to ignore her. The ball is in her court, and SHE will have to do the heavy lifting if she wants to come back. You've already done all the work you need to do. It's her turn.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:12 PM
I'm so sorry.
Plan BBBBBBBBBBB
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:13 PM
The worse part is the sense of uselessness I feel. The house is so empty. she is gone with her dad now. Guess he is talking to her.

I just want her to pull off the damn bandaid and be done. Just leave if your going to leave. Get your [censored] packed and go. Then i can go PB and rebuild whats left of my life and she can start a new one.

I just feel so misrable. I am not a bad man. I took care of her for years. Where is my thanks? Ohh wait I get cheated on and treated like dog poo. Thanks alot. I see guys treat their women like crap and they deal with it. I treat her to anything she wanted and I get cheated on and left not because im not worth the trouble.

Just get out of my life WW. Let me be. Im a good person. I dont deserve this. Just stop sucking my soul away. I think the only thing she studied was how to hurt me the most. So far she has that down. Only thing she didnt do was throw salt on my wounds and grind dirt in my eye.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:15 PM
Damn her!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:15 PM
Quote
This will allow you to go to plan B AND get your custody and finances set. Who knows, after several months of plan B, she might realize she needs to change and will actually do it. Either way, you will never have to put up with her crap again.

maybe. Then she comes back and does the same crap. Im just so punch drunk. Im such a fool.

I cant believe she let me spend all of those hours in preparing for a wonderful anniversary just to boot me away. It made me so happy thinking about her running around the town with me.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:18 PM
Writing my PB letter out now. And yes im leaving out the support part.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:19 PM
Post a copy of plan B letter.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:21 PM
Remember, this was a woman that cheated on her fiancee, slept with a married man, and then cheated for 2 years on her husband with her ex-fiancee. I'd say you'd be a hell of a lot better off without her. Heck, you probably have no idea how good a relationship with a woman can be. You've been accepting crap for years and thought it was just typical. Nope, there are women out there that are a million times better.

Now I shouldn't put the cart before the horse because you are still going to plan B, but listen, either way you wind up a winner. You either rebuild a marriage with your WW once she's broken and agrees to your PBL conditions, or you get out of an awful marriage. Either way, you will win. It's going to suck for a while, but once you get about 6 months of NC w/ her, you'll feel much better than before you ever found out about her affair.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
This is not about you! Do you realize she would have cheated to whomever she married. This has nothing to do with you.

This bears repeating. It isn't you YEG. It is her. She is not wife material and she clearly has no desire to be.

I'm sorry though. I feel your pain. I promise it does get easier.
Posted By: markos Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
This will allow you to go to plan B AND get your custody and finances set. Who knows, after several months of plan B, she might realize she needs to change and will actually do it. Either way, you will never have to put up with her crap again.

maybe. Then she comes back and does the same crap.

We won't let you settle for that. You don't deserve to ever face that again in your life.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:40 PM
Dear WW,

It pains me to have to write this. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. The direction that I must go now is not one of choice but of necessity. I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize the error of my ways and have learned from those so I can prevent them in the future. The past 2 months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost unbearable. I must now take action to prevent losing my felings for you.

I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. I will arrage a time for you to remove your things from our house. Your father has agreed to acta as am intermediary for us. He may call me to arrange a time so I can not be present for you to get your things.Also any message can be exchanged through him.

I will also add you to my health insurance on monday but I ask you reimburse me. I will continue to pay the car insurance but you will need to reimburs me for that as well. As for the cell phone you may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or seek your own plan elsewhere.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with <OM> . I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation from OM and recommitting to the M. Until that time I will continue to pray for our marriage and DD5.

Your loving H
BH
YEG, this wife that you envisioned a romantic anniversary dinner with does not exist in your WW. She is an ideal. You're on the right track about what a good marriage should like-- and it's frustrating and hurtful to you when trying to reconcile that with a selfish WW.

The WW you've been living with doesn't have it in her. I firmly believe that with a good and dark Plan B, you will come to realize that you ARE a keeper and worth a lot more than what you've been shown and led to believe by this WW who poses as your wife.

(((YEG)))
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:45 PM
Quote
I'd say you'd be a hell of a lot better off without her. Heck, you probably have no idea how good a relationship with a woman can be. You've been accepting crap for years and thought it was just typical. Nope, there are women out there that are a million times better.

I honestly DONT know what its like to be in a caring relationship. Im kinda curious though I admit. Im sad but its relieving in a way I admit.

Gonna call a locksmith tonite see if I can arrange for him to come out tommorow. Ill give her till the end of the night before I deliver the PB letter. That way i can warn FIL whats coming. My mom has DD5. She will end up watching her tonite for me.

It changes with the minute but atm I really dont feel like fighting for her anymore. If she comes back before the D fine. If not thats fine too. Im just tired of being hurt by her.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:47 PM
Quote
The WW you've been living with doesn't have it in her. I firmly believe that with a good and dark Plan B, you will come to realize that you ARE a keeper and worth a lot more than what you've been shown and led to believe by this WW who poses as your wife.

She doesnt know what she is losing. She is about to find out though. She has no plan. No job. No idea. She just wants to be happy. Her plan is to move into her Grand mas old house. how she is going to handle the bills no idea.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 08:50 PM
Sucks too. I bought a bunch of calligraphy stuff to make hand made cards for her. Ended up using one of the envelopes I bought for her for the Plan b letter.
Originally Posted by YEG
Dear WW,

It pains me to have to write this. It is truly sad what has happened to us and our marriage. The direction that I must go now is not one of choice but of necessity. I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize the error of my ways and have learned from those so I can prevent them in the future. The past 2 months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost unbearable. I must now take action to prevent losing my felings any remaining feelings I have for you.

I feel I must break off all contact with you. Except in the case of a real emergency I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. I will arrage a time for you to remove your things from our house. Your father has agreed to acta as am intermediary for us. He may call me to arrange a time so I can not be present for you to get your things. I choose not to be present when you do this. Also any emergency message can be exchanged through him.

I will also add you to my health insurance on monday but I ask you reimburse me. I will continue to pay the car insurance but you will need to reimburs me for that as well. As for the cell phone you may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or seek your own plan elsewhere.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know torturous pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with <OM>. I will only be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to construct a plan to ensure a total separation from OM and recommitting to the M. Until that time I will continue to pray for our marriage and DD5.

Your loving H
BH
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 09:30 PM
Ever notice these things always happen on the beginning of the weekends? Now I get to sit around all weekend twiddling my thumbs and being a baby.

Guess it doesnt matter when PB starts because it doesnt end.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 09:38 PM
well my emotional crash is over for now. Stopped crying. I LBed a bit after she told me. Nothing terrible though.

Im kinda disappointed my WW is such a coward. Didnt even want to try. She says she loves me but just isnt happy with where we are. No crap. She wont go anywhere with me. Wont give me a chance to build up her love bank. Wont talk to Dr H. Only thing she wants to do is run. Hope she keeps running a while. I dont think she can run away far enough to get away from herself. Its gonna be hard for her to pull herself up out of the cesspool of a life she has created for herself.

Anyways going to go watch some TV. Might try to run some later. Maybe I can run away for a bit just like she did.
Posted By: loaded Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 09:43 PM
Yeg, I got a bit backlogged and just got caught up on your posts...I basically had almost the same situation and have had the same experiences with women up to this point. They all have cheated on me, but! This experience has made me a lot stronger and I think it will for you as well.

My WW ultimately came back after she ran out of money, became homeless and lost in court. It was reality. Can you imagine how stupid you would feel if you were in her shoes after all that? I know that sounds harsh. I'm just trying to point out that this IS the best way for you right now.

My WW tortured the $hi7 out of me for weeks with the crying and the going back and forth from me to him. Letting me pay her bills and buy her jewelry and flowers, until one day, the divorce became final, and I threw her out of my life. I wouldn 't talk to her unless it was about arrangement with my kids, and she ultimately began to realize after dating and getting beat up by her boyfriend that I was not such a bad guy after all. I demanded at that point that she change all passwords, blah blah blah, but ironicaly it has worked out.

Point being that once people are ultimatly faced with the reality of their lives and the consequences as they have designed them to be, they are shocked at how ridiculous they have been acting. I think at this point you should be happy and hopeful for this Plan B, because you are going to be surprised at how good you feel when you don't have to worry about making someone else feel good all the time, and punishing yourself or hearing her punish you for all the bad things that you once did.

I'm telling you, man. In about two weeks you will feel pretty fickin good, and in about 2 months...?

I melted down and clawed and begged on my knees, and humiliated myself before MB. Looking at your posts, I feel like a shmuck that I did do as much pitiful crap as I did, but hey.

One thing you might consider are some other materials on becoming attractive and flitations and such. It will make you more attractive otherwise. Good Luck!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 10:54 PM
Quote
Point being that once people are ultimatly faced with the reality of their lives and the consequences as they have designed them to be, they are shocked at how ridiculous they have been acting.
She will regret it. Im sure of that.

Quote
I'm telling you, man. In about two weeks you will feel pretty fickin good, and in about 2 months...?
Im already feling better. I was down for 2 weeks when i found out about the A. Its been maybe 2 hrs and im ok. Not 100% but im functioning.

Quote
I melted down and clawed and begged on my knees, and humiliated myself before MB. Looking at your posts, I feel like a shmuck that I did do as much pitiful crap as I did, but hey.

Im not begging anymore. Its useless anyways. My sister yold me I needed to listed to what she is telling me. WW is done. She wants a D. She isnt that good of a prize anyways. ATM all WW needs to be doing is moving out of the house and out of my life. Im going plan B anyways. Not really to preserve my love for her as much as to ween me off of her. I dont want table scraps.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/25/10 11:01 PM
As we can all see this WW was just jerking her BH along. There should of been no flowers, no time to think it over.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 01:02 AM
Talked to the WW.

She was at her parents house. Told her I needed some time to think and would like for her to stay at her parents house until I decided what I wanted to do. I told her I was really hurt with how ive been treated the last 2 years and im not sure I wanted to be in the M. I told her I tried everything I could but I cant fix this by myself.

I talked to FIL briefly. Asked him when she was coming over to get her stuff. he seemed shocked. Dont know why. Its his daughter that wants a D. I almost said not me but I dont know if thats the case anymore. I may want one. I have to decide that on my own.

Its not a plan B letter but im not sure if I want to do that yet. Not sure if I want to head down that path.

All I know is I want some time to measure in my head how I want to proceed. I dont want her coming how to flop on my couch. I want her away. She will probably run to her OM. Not a big deal since im sure she has been all the while.

All I know is I ran the best PA that I could. I gave it all I could. I cant push a rope though. She has put 0 effort into this M for so long its pathetic. I will not settle for table scraps.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Talked to the WW.

She was at her parents house. Told her I needed some time to think and would like for her to stay at her parents house until I decided what I wanted to do. I told her I was really hurt with how ive been treated the last 2 years and im not sure I wanted to be in the M. I told her I tried everything I could but I cant fix this by myself.

I talked to FIL briefly. Asked him when she was coming over to get her stuff. he seemed shocked. Dont know why. Its his daughter that wants a D. I almost said not me but I dont know if thats the case anymore. I may want one. I have to decide that on my own.

Its not a plan B letter but im not sure if I want to do that yet. Not sure if I want to head down that path.

All I know is I want some time to measure in my head how I want to proceed. I dont want her coming how to flop on my couch. I want her away. She will probably run to her OM. Not a big deal since im sure she has been all the while.

All I know is I ran the best PA that I could. I gave it all I could. I cant push a rope though. She has put 0 effort into this M for so long its pathetic. I will not settle for table scraps.

Good for you. Be strong now. You deserve better than this. And it does get easier.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 01:32 AM
Quote
I cant believe she let me spend all of those hours in preparing for a wonderful anniversary just to boot me away.

OK, this is your mother speaking. Well, old enough to BE your mother. Good enough! Stop beating on yourself. Would you really have felt any better if she'd waited until after your big day to tell you? Personally, to me that would feel like adding insult to injury.

Quote
I will also add you to my health insurance on monday but I ask you reimburse me. I will continue to pay the car insurance but you will need to reimburs me for that as well. As for the cell phone you may either stay on our shared plan and reimburse me for half the bill or seek your own plan elsewhere.

Health insurance, I can see, but unless the car is in your name, the responsibility and the liability are hers. No phone...not unless you want to pay for it all. Because I'm telling you, if you pay upfront and expect to be reimbursed by a woman with no job and no sense of responsibility, I think you're just setting yourself up for my aggravation and hurt. Unless you're a masochist, I don't think you should do it.

Quote
I bought a bunch of calligraphy stuff to make hand made cards for her. Ended up using one of the envelopes I bought for her for the Plan b letter.

If you have it in you to be ironic, you could always do the envelope of your Plan B letter in calligraphy anyway. I don't remember ever hearing of anyone else ever doing that here before.

Buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

tl
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by thndrnltng
If you have it in you to be ironic, you could always do the envelope of your Plan B letter in calligraphy anyway. I don't remember ever hearing of anyone else ever doing that here before.

Buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

tl

Hee Hee.....I love this idea.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 01:40 AM
He could also sign his name, and write her name in the salutation, with calligraphy. If it happened to me I'd blow a mini-gasket trying to reconcile the writing style with the message in the letter. I'm sorry you're at this point, Yeg, but it still amuses me to think Plan B letter/calligraphy.mr eek

tl
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 05:37 PM
First of all the note itself was in print. The front of the envelope was indeed in my very bad calligraphy. So +1 for the BS.

First full day in Plan B has gone pretty well. Got a call into FIL to arrange for her to swap the car insurance to her name and tell her to split her cell off of my line. Im sure he is going to tell me she really isnt sure about leaving. My WW is a coward so she isnt going to admit it to her parents. Only reason she confessed to him about the A is because I forced her too. She also needs to come up with a date to get her stuff out of the house. That way I can change the locks.

Im going to make a appointment with the OMs command to update them on the continued contact of the OM with my WW. Gonna push the issue to IG office as well. Their may be no contact but who cares. I dont want her using him as a bank account for a custody battle in court. Also dont want DD5 living with them. That makes me sick.

I dont know why i was reluctant to go to PB before. I really feel alot better. Its very impowering. Their is no walking around on eggshells. There is no worry about "settling". There are just clearly defined conditions that she will have to abide if she wants to come back.

FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER I FEEL IM DRIVING THE TRAIN.

At this point im really looking forward to the D process almost. Its exciting because either way im getting a new life. I will be able to date someone who loves me and wants to invest in the relationship.

My WW may reach an epiphany and want to be that person. I doubt that since im going to make it really hard for her to step back into the house again now thats she is gone. She simply is a renter. She will do the minimum to get by and she is very selfish. She cares only for her happiness. She doesnt give a poop about MY HAPPINESS or DD5s happiness. There is just ME ME ME ME. Its all about ME.

On the other hand its exciting to think that one day i will be free to date other people. I will have a chance to find someone that really cares about me. I wont have to look down when a pretty girl walks by. Instead I can pursue a healthy relationship with someone that is willing to put WE before ME. I feel now that I learned all about meeting needs empowered to woo the ladies. I know how to attract them. I know the qualities I want in a person. I know how affairs start. I can use that knowledge with single eligible females to start a new relationship.

Honestly Im almost giddy. There is no worrying about the WW really. I dont concern myself about where she is. If she goes to OMs house ill document it for the court case but that is it. Im documenting everything. I have my calender that I sum up all the activities ive been doing with DD5. All the purchases ive made. That way I can show im the quality father she needs for custodial decisions.

There is no real worrying about how the WW is going to interpret legal moves I make. Who cares if she gets a lawyer. I ain't skared. They cant weave poo into gold thread. He cant hide the truth that WW is greedy and has no way to support DD5. She still hasn't worked more than 20 hours in the last 2 months. She has no money and will probably try to pursue the OM just for a soft pillow to land on. She needs the $$$.All the more reason why i cant let her get custody.

Thanks for all the support the last few days. I really feel alot better.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 05:39 PM
BTW all im changing the name of the thread. I want something to reflect the more positive evnts in my life.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Well finally got my answer.

I asked the WW today if she had made her decision. She said she had.

She is moving out of the house permanently. She wants a divorve.

YEG...I am so, so sorry. you were really good to her, and she never gave you a chance.

you seem more sad than angry. so we'll be furious on your behalf. unexpressed sadness when there's no shoulder to cry on...that'll wear you down and break you. a little righteous anger, unexpressed, will put a touch of fire in your eyes, give you energy, and allow you to focus on the REST of your life.

when you're pissed and trying to be nice, you come across as crisp and self-sufficient.
when you're sad and trying to be nice, you come across as weary.
RIGHTEOUS is your word of the day.

short term: take DD5 to the zoo and get some ice-cream or something. don't go out of your way to invite Ice Princess along unless she asks to come along. longterm: get the IP out of your house. she's wearing you down.

stay strong, YEG. sorry no Pollyanna today.

p.s. Read "The Art of Seduction." it's not as naughty as it sounds, it's a good practical compendium about personality traits and "types" other people respond to. good sales/pop psych tool; on my shelf next to "Art of War." it'll remind you what you've got going for you, whether IP (Ice Princess) bounces back or not. Ask the other BHs about it.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 05:48 PM
Quote
short term: take DD5 to the zoo and get some ice-cream or something. don't go out of your way to invite Ice Princess along unless she asks to come along. longterm: get the IP out of your house. she's wearing you down.

DD5 and I are going to take a nap then go to a walking trail together. She has been wanting to do that for a while now.

WW is gone. She is at her parents for good. I already told her to come up with a time to get her things so she can GTFO. I was very nice about it but firm. Im doing all communication through my FIL now.

I really do feel alot better today. I was better within 2 hrs last night. When i found out I was a mess for weeks. PB really is easier.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 05:49 PM
You beat me to the punch, dude! way to be righteous!! =0) whoa, that was meant to be a smily-face, but i like this guy better:

=0)
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 05:57 PM
Change the locks?
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Change the locks?

hmmm? i actually skimmed over that part w/out really registering it. i don't know if there's a legality issue w/ that in whatever state they're in, i've never been in that situation. is there an attorney in the house?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 06:09 PM
Change the locks.
Anyway.
She will not call the police.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH seeking help. New help thread - 06/26/10 06:38 PM
Im going to wait till she gets her stuff. Thats in indication that she is voluntarily moving out. Since that what she wants so she can "find her happiness" she is going to do it.

Ill consult with my lawyer first though. Dont want to misstep.

The big deal is I dont wanna get home from work and find her kicking her feet up watching TV from the comfort of my house. She can find her happiness where she left it in her OM's pants but she isnt going to cake eat anymore.

You take all of what im offering or none. Im NOT a fall back plan. Im NOT settling for crumbs.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/26/10 08:17 PM
Sooo bored.

DD5 is taking a nap. Ive been playing phone tag with FIL all day. He is supposed to call me sometime when he can talk in private.

For the last 2 months ive devoted my life to meeting all my WW needs. Now im just sitting on my hands. Its really tough. I basically have to find my own life now. There is no we, only me. Its hard because I want to fill the void in my life. I have been missing out on so much happiness.

I cant run around like she did. Im NOT going wayward. I have a huge need to feel close and safe to another person though.

Hopefully it will get a little better when DD5 wakes up though. We can do something together. The first part of the week is going to suck though. I have no one. WW is taking her sunday morning till I get home on thursday. All I have to welcome me is an empty house.

I can tell you one thing. Im going to get RIPPED. All I wanna do is work out and run anymore. I want to walk around outside and do stuff. Anything to pass the time. he hours are just dragging by.

I guess its better than getting gas lamped and treated like dog crap. Im defiantly not happy though.

Looking forward to going shopping with DD5. She really wants Milo and Otis. So im going to get it for her. basically all the time ive been spending on WW is going to DD5 now when I can. Hopefully that will fill my life some with happiness.

Tommorow will be the first time ive been in mass in a year. Looking forward to it. Ive been going to the WW church but im not anymore. I dont want the contact with WW. It wll ruin my PB. Looking for a adult bible study class. Maybe buy a devotional from the store.

Just talked to FIL again. WW told him that we got into a fight and thats when she said she wanted to move out and get a D. I told him it wasnt like that at all. FIL wants her to get a lawyer. I welcomed him too knowing that a lawyer is just going to tell her she is screwed. WW doesnt want that though he said. He is telling me she still hasnt made up her mind. Funny because she told me she had. He almost sounds upset because im making a big deal out of it. I told him im just tired of hurting and seeing my daughter hurt by WW selfish actions.

The one thing we could agree on is that WW needs time by herself. He wanted me to call her and work out these things. I told him id be willing to talk to her about how to save our M. I was not going to call her to chit chat though. He got upset that I was asking her to move out too. I just pointed out that it was the WW that wanted that. I was merely giving her what she wanted. He is very frustrated but so am I.

WW is really bothering me with all her lies. She needs to just be honest with her parents and tell them that our M is over if that is what she wants. I told FIl he needed to stop bad mouthing his future SIL too. He didnt find the humor there.

I also told him that I was staying in the house. im not moving out so she can "think". He thinks im making decisions I cant undo. I disagreed respectfully since she has made all the decisions to end our M.

Anyways Im glad im not in the day to day garbage. If she wants me she can come to ME. She can SHOW me she wants to save our M. Not let her daddy fight her fights for me. None of this garbage tippy toe drama. She needs to SHOW me she wants to save our M. Its like he wants me to accept that the 10% chance she is going to stay with me is enough to let her stay in the house. IMO she has made her decision. In her mind she has.

I think FIL is defiantly worried about a custody fight. I think he is right to worry.


Edit - Weight watchers is working great. Im down from 230 to 204 lbs. Ive also lost 4 inches off my waist. I was a 42" now im wearing 38" pants again!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 06:02 AM
Funny thing happened today.

I was happy in my attempt at PB. I had told her I wanted her to stay away but didnt deliver the letter.

I had DD5. DD5 starts asking for the WW. I tell her WW cant be around me atm. So DD5 gets upset. Its the usual. Crying because WW isnt there.

Then she says the kicker. If mommy doesnt love you maybe mommy doesnt love me too. Ughh so I had to call WW to tell DD5 that WW really does love her.

I get all emotional and WW starts freaking out. I tell her I cant talk to her.

About an hour later I get a text saying that we need to talk. No responce from me. Then she sends an email saying that we need to talk about DD5.

Fine. I tell her to come to the house. On the conditions that both sets of grandparents are there as witnesses.

So she comes over. What a merry bunch we were. I ask her to tell her parents what she told me about that she is leaving and wants a D. She says she cant remember. I did get her to admit that she said she is leaving though.

In reality she now claims she doesnt want to go. She doesnt want a D.

bleh. So we talk about how to handle DD5. We agree to how. My parents leave. FIL stays around though. We really start talking about our feelings though. She tells me that she has to decide if our M is worth saving. That if there is anything left to save. usual stuff.

We end up talking about 3 hours. She got alot of stuff out. We talked about money, what she wants in life (she has no idea), all kinds of stuff. We start talking about possible recovery plans.

We talked a few details about the A. She admits she told him that she loved him and he said the same. She also told me they always used protection when they had sex. i believe that since she made me use a condom too.

WW is going through alot of stuff. She basically has no identity atm. She has no plan in life. She has nothing. I tell her she has me.

We touch briefly on EP. I ask her about the reconciliation agreement. She says she has no problem waiving alimony or anything else I wanted. I told her we could include stuff too.

I also tell her about my condition of NC and transparency. She wasnt as receptive to that.

We started talking about sex. She says she knows thats off the table since id lose my grounds of adultery if we did that. I told her I could give a crap about that. She says she wants to protect me in case of a D. thats how we got into the Reconciliation agreement.

Overall nothing was decided. She acknoledged that im making all the changes she has wanted for years. She just wish I had done them a year ago. Or 5 years ago. She would have loved it then. She just doesnt know if she wants them now.

So we are basically back where we were a few days ago. Me brainstorming ideas. She is being a bit more receptive. She is telling me her feelings for what its worth. We talked about her going to cooking school or back to school for something. She talked to me about her guilt over money.

We are also pretty much back in PA. We are going to church together tommorow and she wants to go out for our anniversary as well. So we will see how that goes.

I also talked about why I wanted a chance to spend time with her.

Im still fighting for my life in there. it sucks. Its all I got though.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 12:19 PM
"We talked a few details about the A. She admits she told him that she loved him and he said the same. She also told me they always used protection when they had sex."

Tell WW you want her to take a polygraph. What happens just before the appointment is that the WW starts coming clean to avoid having to go.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 12:22 PM
Also no transparency no back home. You must verify NC. Don't remember do they work together?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 12:54 PM
Quote
Not only no SF because of adultery in court because WW must have STD test's done.

Im not trying to hop in bed with her. That will be a condition of the EPs and one im trying to get her to do anyways.

Quote
Also no transparency no back home. You must verify NC. Don't remember do they work together?

They do not work together.

I discussed her EPs to verify NC. I told her I would like to have a joint FB page with her or have her FB password. I also discussed having access to all her email and financials. She didnt freak out when I said this. She didnt give me an answer either way though. She has to think about it. This was about 3 hrs into our marathon talking session.

She is just so scared right now. Her entire world has crashed around her. She has lost everything. Now all she has is a husband that she doesnt even know if she still wants and her child.

Posted By: ElunaInNC Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
Not only no SF because of adultery in court because WW must have STD test's done.

Im not trying to hop in bed with her. That will be a condition of the EPs and one im trying to get her to do anyways.

Quote
Also no transparency no back home. You must verify NC. Don't remember do they work together?

They do not work together.

I discussed her EPs to verify NC. I told her I would like to have a joint FB page with her or have her FB password. I also discussed having access to all her email and financials. She didnt freak out when I said this. She didnt give me an answer either way though. She has to think about it. This was about 3 hrs into our marathon talking session.

She is just so scared right now. Her entire world has crashed around her. She has lost everything. Now all she has is a husband that she doesnt even know if she still wants and her child.


Please insist on either no FB or joint FB. The advantage of joint FB is you can control who is on the friends list and since no one know if you are on the chat or WW is on the chat, you have an upper hand there too.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
She basically has no identity atm. She has no plan in life. She has nothing.

The following link is to something on my "notable posts" thread.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=1836786

Written by a former Wayward man who had harsh(?) words for other waywards.
He has a talent for getting issues down to the bone. Feel free to borrow any of his lines. But, say them gently, with a soft facial expression, and a soft tone of voice.

You are doing great!
The 3 hour discussion puts YOU inside her head.
A person can only think about one thing at a time.
You've plan A'd yourself into her thoughts.
Which leaves less space for OM to occupy.

When she brings up the "Why didn't you make these improvements sooner?" ....

You reply:
"I am never going back to the way I was. I have changed. Even if we divorce, I am going to continue to learn and develop into a better man. For as long as I live."
Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 02:24 PM
Yeg,

When was the last time you and WW had a hearty laugh together?
One of the missing ingredients might be fun/laughter.

You can plan A her funny bone a little.

Such as:

"The other day I was thinking about (funny family story)" .... Tell the story. Then, laugh.

Text her a joke.

Watch a funny movie, then tell her about it.

Tell her something cute and funny DD5 said/did. (text/phone/email).

It is not necessary to be serious 24/7.

It you get the giggles, call her.





Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 02:47 PM
And another post on my "notables" ....

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=1836820

You still need to prepare yourself for Plan B.

The post is written by a BH who did an excellent Plan B.
His experience is golden.
His wife moved out and left the kids with BH.

Please, take the time to read this one.
Especially the part where Plan B is a door.

You need to keep Plan B in your pocket.
This also applies to early recovery fro any BS during early recovery.
Plan B preparations are like insurance for your safety and sanity.

By the way.
The man who wrote the post I linked ..... Is happily married to his FIRST wife.
They never divorced. dance2
They made another baby during their recovery!


Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 02:50 PM
Especially pay attention to this bit:



As I said, I think you have done a pretty good Plan A. I think she has seen it. I KNOW she has seen it. In her statements, she repeatedly refers to your changes. Sure, she calls them "lies." She has to call them lies, because if she were to accept them as truth, then she would also have to re-evaluate her position and what she is doing. And she isnt ready to do that yet. Instead, she sees your changes...but calls them lies.





Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 08:43 PM
I'm a little worried that you took your wife back within a matter of days, my husband told me he was not ready for me to come back home yet, he needed that time to heal, and it sounds like you need more time in plan B.

But I guess it's too late, all we have to do is wait and see if she is ready to change (which I doubt she will) if not...

Then plan B again! smile This time, don't let her come back till YOU ARE READY smile
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 09:47 PM
Quote
I was happy in my attempt at PB.


Plan B isn't to be "attempted". It is to be done...pure and simple.

I feel that you were looking for a reason to break it. There was no need to contact her. You wanted to call her...found a "reason" and did it.

The next time she will be prepared for you to "break" again.

Don't be so quick to use it when you aren't fully prepared to adhere to it.

committed
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/27/10 10:46 PM
YEG:

It appears WW came out of coma when you told her you want the divorce. Some women can be quite strange and I am reminded of my wife. In the recovery phase the word "divorce" had a much more powerful positive effect than anything nice I could do for her.

In any event good luck. I am glad you had this turnround.





Posted By: ManInMotion Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
It appears WW came out of coma when you told her you want the divorce.

More likely she was advised that what she was doing wasn't in her best interests, and she'd better act differently if she wants to benefit better in a D settlement, if it comes to that.

Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 04:13 AM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
I'm a little worried that you took your wife back within a matter of days, my husband told me he was not ready for me to come back home yet, he needed that time to heal, and it sounds like you need more time in plan B.

But I guess it's too late, all we have to do is wait and see if she is ready to change (which I doubt she will) if not...

Then plan B again! smile This time, don't let her come back till YOU ARE READY smile


true, that, Sapphire.

YEG, you sound like you're thrown off balance a little by WW's sudden change of heart--i hear neither rejoicing nor cynicism and distrust of her motives.

i'm not prepared to evaluate just where in the heck WW's coming from--i'd LOVE to believe, optimist that i am, that the impending divorce proceedings prompted some deep internal sea-change that enabled her to see the light. but i can just as easily accept the converse, that she's just scared of a divorce and all that entails. i hope it's the former.

one thing of which i am certain? like Sapph said,

This time, don't let her come back till YOU ARE READY smile

welcome her back with open arms...WHEN YOU'RE READY. but don't EVER let her think she's doing you a favor.

Congrats, YEG!!! I'm excited to hear what follows!

Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 04:15 AM
That's what I think too... I think her and daddy had a "come to Jesus" meeting and he told her how badly she's screwed up. In my legal mind, I'm thinking she's coming back to do the leaving right this time-- so she won't lose custody or child support. I hope I'm wrong, but this just happened a little too fast.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 12:34 PM
Whew. Lotta responses from the weekend. Here it goes. Ill do a post with all the responses. Then ill update on anniversary date yesterday.

Quote
Please insist on either no FB or joint FB. The advantage of joint FB is you can control who is on the friends list and since no one know if you are on the chat or WW is on the chat, you have an upper hand there too.

I brought up this idea. Im fine with her having her own page as long as I have access. I dont mind booting her friends off I dont care for.

Quote
Written by a former Wayward man who had harsh(?) words for other waywards.
He has a talent for getting issues down to the bone. Feel free to borrow any of his lines. But, say them gently, with a soft facial expression, and a soft tone of voice.
Ill check out all your links. gotta lot to catch up on and sometime today I actually have to do some work at work too. How silly.

Quote
The 3 hour discussion puts YOU inside her head.
A person can only think about one thing at a time.
You've plan A'd yourself into her thoughts.
Which leaves less space for OM to occupy.

She never brings up the OM. Never says he was so much caring or any of that BS. When i asked about it she said she was desperate for emotional support and looked for it anywhere. That was only when I asked though.

Quote
You reply:
"I am never going back to the way I was. I have changed. Even if we divorce, I am going to continue to learn and develop into a better man. For as long as I live."
"I am making these changes because I want to be a better persona better father and a great mate for someone. I would like that to be you but I understand it may not be. Thats ok too." Thats what I said.

Quote
When was the last time you and WW had a hearty laugh together?
One of the missing ingredients might be fun/laughter.
We joke around some but its defiantly more a serious tone. Ill work on that.

Quote
The post is written by a BH who did an excellent Plan B.
His experience is golden.
His wife moved out and left the kids with BH.

Please, take the time to read this one.
Especially the part where Plan B is a door.

You need to keep Plan B in your pocket.
This also applies to early recovery fro any BS during early recovery.
Plan B preparations are like insurance for your safety and sanity.
I know PB is still there. I still got the infamous calligraphy PB letter in my desk. Im prepared to go to it. I have to admit I dont want to pull the trigger though. I want her to say she is done and move out. That way I have NO regrets.

Right now I dont make the entry requirements to go to PB in my mind. She isnt leaving (Apparently she was still just "thinking" about leaving didnt actually want a divorce even know she said "im pretty sure I do want a divorce". I am still making progress in PA. Im also not frustrated to the point of not caring.

I did cut her off for a couple of days but that was too weigh if I was ready to go PB.

Quote
I'm a little worried that you took your wife back within a matter of days, my husband told me he was not ready for me to come back home yet, he needed that time to heal, and it sounds like you need more time in plan B.

But I guess it's too late, all we have to do is wait and see if she is ready to change (which I doubt she will) if not...

Then plan B again! smile This time, don't let her come back till YOU ARE READY smile

As per my feelings Im ready for her to come back. Im ready to start recovery. The A isnt a major hang up for me. It is what it is. Im not sweeping it under the rug. I do have some questions I want to ask as part of Just Compensation and I want steve to do the injury recovery with us. Then i want to close the chapter on the last few years and move on to the rest of our life.

As per her change of heart so quick I think the HUGE driving force was the effect it was having on DD5. The thought that DD5 would think there was even a possibility that one of her parents didnt love her had a HUGE effect on her. She wanted to
address that. What I ended up doing was forcing her to tell both our families what she told me though. She basically had to admit to her dad that she didnt want to continue on because she wasnt happy. Not because I wasnt doing enough or she didnt love me. Because she just wasnt sure if there was a M worth saving.

I think the shame factor kicked in alot. Also both families really harped on the effect that D has on kids.

I dont want to lead yall on yet though. The WW hasnt committed to the M again. We talked about the steps we needed and maybe doing it in steps so we can take it slow so she is comfortable. We talked about the pressure IM getting and the effect of having the D cloud over my head is hurting me. How her not taking EP and going NC is preventing me from feeling safe. She insists she isnt talking to him. Thats fine. So make ME feel safe and give me that transparency.

Im going to go to a step system to get to recovery.

Instead of just saying I want you to recommit im going to break the EPs into baby steps.

Step 1. She needs to sign a reconciliation agreement. Otherwise the D train keeps rolling and it gets ugly and will force entry into PB. She also has to go NC with the OM. If she is already doing it great. She needs to cut the possible paths of contact though so he cant slip back in. I dont trust him at all since her being married has NO deterrent on him. Also I feel very threatened by him because his stepfatherish overtures (the "uncle OM" card).

BTW the WW is still foggy on that. She said she never interpretted that as him wanting to be a step dad. DD5 calls a bunch of WW close friends aunts and uncles. It was like DD5 calling WW best friend an aunt. TO my knowledge though her BF was never sleeping with her though and ruining our M.

Step 2 will be moving back in the house. Maybe it will just be to the spare bedroom but at least thats closer. THis is the phase that WW will brainstorm with me and gather knowledge on recovery. Hopefully we can get Steve involved her in this phase.

Step 3 will be recommitting to the M and committing to a recovery plan. We will sleep in the same bed and live as a couple. She will wear her wedding band again. The we move onto recovery. No idea how that is even going to work. Ill cross that bridge when we get there.

Quote
Plan B isn't to be "attempted". It is to be done...pure and simple.

I feel that you were looking for a reason to break it. There was no need to contact her. You wanted to call her...found a "reason" and did it.

The next time she will be prepared for you to "break" again.

Don't be so quick to use it when you aren't fully prepared to adhere to it.

I didnt want to go PB. I thought I was being FORCED to enter PB because she was moving out.

I had to talk to her because DD5 was really upset. We did need to come up with a plan to handle her. I have to protect my child. Just in the process I found that she really didnt want to leave yet.

Did she learn anything? Dont know. I think she knows that im ready to cut her off. That im not afraid of the future either way and i wont beg her to stay.

I did got to PA again. Was it a mistake? Maybe but I think I really need more time to show the WW that my changes are permanent. She still thinks im going to throw money in her face. I use to do that when she would screw up with money. I need time to show her that we can be happy.

Quote
It appears WW came out of coma when you told her you want the divorce. Some women can be quite strange and I am reminded of my wife. In the recovery phase the word "divorce" had a much more powerful positive effect than anything nice I could do for her.

In any event good luck. I am glad you had this turnround.
Time will tell. Dont know if it was the D or DD5. Something gave her to strength and incentive to talk about EPs and stuff.

Quote
More likely she was advised that what she was doing wasn't in her best interests, and she'd better act differently if she wants to benefit better in a D settlement, if it comes to that.
Im not dropping the D unless she signs a reconciliation agreement.

Quote
YEG, you sound like you're thrown off balance a little by WW's sudden change of heart--i hear neither rejoicing nor cynicism and distrust of her motives
I thought she was done. I thought she was moving out and moving on with her life. I was finding peace in that. Now I find out she really isnt sure about it yet. So Im back in the limbo mobile and that just really isnt very fun. I still have the axe over my head. When the axe fell I was ok with it. Since she had pulled the plug any guilt I had was relieved. I did everything I could. I cant risk that I will have regrets so im back PAing it.

Quote
That's what I think too... I think her and daddy had a "come to Jesus" meeting and he told her how badly she's screwed up. In my legal mind, I'm thinking she's coming back to do the leaving right this time-- so she won't lose custody or child support. I hope I'm wrong, but this just happened a little too fast.

Its possible. WW was never a money grubber though. We have always had separate accounts. I do trust the FIL when he says that he wants us to be together. If she leaves HE will be supporting her since she has no job and no prospects.

I gotta take a test for work. Ill update on the anniversary dinner we had yesterday.
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 01:26 PM
YEG,

I hope things work out for you, but I'm sensing a couple of red flags.

The first is hesitancy to commit to EP's and total transparency. You need ENTHUSIASTIC agreement to these conditions, not just a head nod or an "OK". And do not compromise at all on these conditions. The very first inch you give on these she will take as a confirmation to push it further. Trust me, I know this from experience. Just a head nod or a quiet "OK" means she has every intention of continuing to sneak around with contact.

The second is she is still in mindset of "finding out if I can commit to the marriage." That means "I am not committing". The fog babble of your changes being too late is more of the same. You need 100% commitment NOW, or no moving back in. She can find out "If she wants to or can ever commit again" at her parents house.

I'm thinking that your wife is just scared right now and knows she is in no position to make it on her own at the present time. She is just biding time until she can figure out a better plan.

Oh, and I would suggest finding another intermediary if you end up extending your plan B or redoing it at some point. Your FIL may seem reasonable or even on your side right now, but blood is thicker than water and if she's living there, she is filling his head with lies and propaganda about you the whole time.

I like my in-laws a lot, but haven't had one word with them about our relationship since we filed for D. I assume that they have been fed a load of bull, but it's not my job to straighten them out at this point. They will always support their daughter (which they should), so there's no point in even trying.


Posted By: redzgirl Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Tommorow will be the first time ive been in mass in a year. Looking forward to it. Ive been going to the WW church but im not anymore. I dont want the contact with WW. It wll ruin my PB. Looking for a adult bible study class. Maybe buy a devotional from the store.
YEG, shortly after my D day, a coworker's wife (an angel) sent me a devotional book that has helped me. It's called "Jesus Calling: Enjoying Peace in His Presence" by Sarah Young. I highly recommend it..I open it every day and it hits me right square in the heart!
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
I can tell you one thing. Im going to get RIPPED. All I wanna do is work out and run anymore. I want to walk around outside and do stuff. Anything to pass the time. he hours are just dragging by.


Edit - Weight watchers is working great. Im down from 230 to 204 lbs. Ive also lost 4 inches off my waist. I was a 42" now im wearing 38" pants again!

I really like this!!

I started running over a year ago before D-day, but have been pretty dedicated about continuing my running and some light workouts. Shortly after starting running I dropped 35 lbs (That really pissed off the WW, she had never been successful with weight loss). Now I am competitive and even place in my age group at area 5K races.

Some friends of our have their daughters birthday party every June at their pool and it was Saturday this year. They are mutual friends of our, so I showed up at the party along with STBXW and kids. While I've never looked bulked up on muscle (my natural build is tall and slim), I am back at my high school weight and very fit.

It gave me a ton of confidence knowing I looked so much better than any of the other men that were there!
Posted By: mindshare Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Its possible. WW was never a money grubber though. We have always had separate accounts. I do trust the FIL when he says that he wants us to be together. If she leaves HE will be supporting her since she has no job and no prospects.

Keep in mind YEG that it might not be about money. It might be about custody of DD5. WW or even FIL may have already spoken to an attorney that advised her to get back into the house pronto. You cannot overlook this.

It seems to me that you are setting the bar too low. This has gone on long enough with her putting in no effort. It's time to put a stake in the sand and tell her that she needs to start putting in effort to work on the M. Starting with counseling with SH. I think you should make that a condition of her returning to the home period.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 02:25 PM
YEG,

She's coming back because she feels she has no better options. You killed Plan B too early.

The fact that DD5 was upset was an excuse for you to contact WW. It falls on you to comfort WW. The impact of D will be there on DD5 no matter what. Contacting WW to tell her that DD5 is upset is an excuse.

I know because I use to do the same thing. The guideline on contacting your WW regarding DD5 is that you don't unless there is blood on the floor somewhere or someone will die unless you talk to her.

Otherwise everything regarding DD5, such as school, can be handled via email.

Divorcing couples use the kids as excuses to talk to the other parent all the time. There is no need for the communication 99% of the time.

Console DD5 yourself. Your WW has no business doing so.

You can't guilt WW into coming back by using DD5's anguish as an excuse to talk to her. That is what is happening.

I know you don't see it that way, but having lived it myself, I look back and see I did that very thing.

Plan B means NO communication short of blood on the floor and imminent death. Otherwise you're enough of a parent to handle the care of DD5 all on your own without her input.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by mindshare
Keep in mind YEG that it might not be about money. It might be about custody of DD5. WW or even FIL may have already spoken to an attorney that advised her to get back into the house pronto. You cannot overlook this.

Agreed!
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by mindshare
Keep in mind YEG that it might not be about money. It might be about custody of DD5. WW or even FIL may have already spoken to an attorney that advised her to get back into the house pronto. You cannot overlook this.

Agreed!


Sigh....I really hope that is NOT the case...but unfortunately it can very well be!

I wish you didn't call her frown

Oh well...now all we have to do is wait and see right?

smirk <--crossing fingers

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 03:01 PM
Quote
Keep in mind YEG that it might not be about money. It might be about custody of DD5. WW or even FIL may have already spoken to an attorney that advised her to get back into the house pronto. You cannot overlook this.

Your right. I need to consider that.

I will still push her for a commitment to the marriage. She needs to give mean answer one way or the other.

We dont have to solve everything overnight but we need to work towards a common goal.

Quote
The fact that DD5 was upset was an excuse for you to contact WW. It falls on you to comfort WW. The impact of D will be there on DD5 no matter what. Contacting WW to tell her that DD5 is upset is an excuse.

I know because I use to do the same thing. The guideline on contacting your WW regarding DD5 is that you don't unless there is blood on the floor somewhere or someone will die unless you talk to her.

Otherwise everything regarding DD5, such as school, can be handled via email.

I PB resumes I will do this. I got upset and let my feelings get away from me.

Posted By: mindshare Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 04:14 PM
So what are you requiring from her at this time YEG? At an absolute minimum you should insist that she does a call with SH. I get the feeling you are letting her back home to separate bedrooms and right back into the same state of limbo you were already in previously. How is that helpful? I will tell you how it is helpful....it is helpful to her legal case to be back in the house with DD5. If she is back for the right reasons then make her prove it. Make her show you that she is going to give the M a shot.

Just returning to the way things were only hurts you. Better off not having her come back at all.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 04:25 PM
This may very well be a case of severe fog and withdrawal. However, she showed some life after she was told she would get the PINK slip.

We do not know why WW is changing her story. However, it is possible WW came back after her dad convinced WW she would lose everything. I don't think YEG should keep FIL up to date.

One would think that Plan B seems to get better results with this WW.

Like I said the insinuation of the word divorce always brought my FWW back to reality very quickly.

Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/28/10 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
The fact that DD5 was upset was an excuse for you to contact WW. It falls on you to comfort WW. The impact of D will be there on DD5 no matter what. Contacting WW to tell her that DD5 is upset is an excuse.

I know because I use to do the same thing. The guideline on contacting your WW regarding DD5 is that you don't unless there is blood on the floor somewhere or someone will die unless you talk to her.

Otherwise everything regarding DD5, such as school, can be handled via email.


I can relate, my friend. Learn from it and don't repeat it. Bestof luck.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 02:33 AM
Once more dear friends.

Here is the long awaited post on our anniversary. We went to church. At church i stood in front of teh entire congregation and read WW a piece of scripture about marriage. Short and sweet. i also read a poem about anniversaries. WW appreciated it but was a little uncomfortable.

Later we went off. We drove about an hour away. We went o an art museum. She was really how and uncomfortable but it was something different. We ate gelato, it was over 100 F so it was really good. Ended up going to a mall we use to live by. Reminisced some there and we bought a new pair of shoes for her. The ones she had were too uncomfortable and were cutting her feet.

After that we headed downtown again for dinner. Dinner was great. We talked alot. We are both foodies so it was alot of fun. She said she really enjoyed it. We had a few drinks there.

From the mall on things were really laid back. We chatted about old times, even flirted a few times. She said the wind was getting in her skirt. I was saying That makes 2 of us. She gave me "that look" the one that says I wanna slap you but really i dont.

Way back it was good. She slept most of the ways. I was singing in the car and such. She loves it when I sing but she said she didnt hear it.

Today things were status quo again pretty much though. We went to a nice italian place with DD5. It was tasty. We had a good meal then went for coffee. I paid for coffee she paid for the meal.

Then we sat down. earlier today I had written her an email about the 2 paths ahead of us. The path of divorce and the path to reconciliation. Of course she never read it. So I pretty much spelled it out for her.

She committed as well as she will (she always leaves herself wiggle room) to making a decision by thursday. The divorce path the conversation was very professional. She didnt fight any of it. She just listened. During the reconciliation part she started pulling away some. She would glance occasionally at the magazine. Didnt want to look me in the eye. I stressed the fact I was willing to be patient as long as we are committed to each other and moving forward.

I asked her if it would help if I left her alone the next few days. She said she think that would be best. Its her days with DD5 so she is going to watch her. Im going to be flying solo the next few days.

So here is the deal. Thursday Im either going Plan B or into recovery. My money is on PB. The weekend was good but I think she has already decided in her mind that the M is unsalvagable. Ive got a call into FIL to let him know the status. So he can push to give her guidance if she wants. Also to let him know to rent a truck if she doesnt want to stay and such. Hopefully the stuff with DD5 this weekend will help give her the strength to keep trying. She is learning the pain that divorce causes.

Good news is WW agreed to talk to Steve. She wants to ask him about how we can tell DD5 if we are getting a divorce. Dont really care as long as she talks to him. He will tell her the best way to handle it but i he will also try to sell her on staying as well. She will be in PB at that point but the doubt in her head may wake her up.

I can tell you all its going to be a combo plan B/D. im not calling off the D if i go PB. It may not be the best PB but at this point I want it done one way or another. My daughter is hurting by this limbo nonsense and I am hurting.

I want a health happy marriage. I want it with the WW but at this point Im not holding my breath. Im sure she will tell me she wants to move out almost but I know she will still really have not made up her mind. I think she needs a divorce trial run. She wants to test drive it. I know I have done everything I can to save the M and I sleep well at night. She can barelly sleep at all. I have learned to place it in Gods hands finally and that has give me strength. Plan B will work its magic either way. Either it will cure her or kick her. At this point im not really particular. My love bank is reaching critical levels so its time.

So its T minus 3 till decision day.

Side bar The wife returned my Gnite text tonite. Shocker.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 02:39 AM
This was the email I sent her. Its already sent but i figured yall might wanna see it.

Quote
WW,

You told me last night that everyone knows more about the divorce than you do. So im going to give you all the facts I have. Im doing this in email so its easiest to process.

First of all thank you for going to PLACE XXX with me yesterday. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for hugging me before I left as well. The affection really does mean something to me.

Saying that here is where the divorce stands and where I stand.

Immediately after I found out I filed a complaint. That is the start of the divorce process. The original temparary hearing date was 6/22/10. That obviously did not happen. I wanted to give you the time to figure out what you wanted and to show you the changes in my life. Im up against a deadline now though. I must serve you soon or drop the complaint. That is why I am asking for an answer by the end of the month.

I dont want a divorce in any way. I believe we have learned alot from this about ourselves and each other. I believe the answers are out there. We need to find them. We can use knowledge that we find to rebuild our love for each other and create a wonderful marriage and family that we can thrive in.

There are 2 paths in front of us.

One is separation. If you tell me that you cant continue that is the path in front of us. If this is the road you choose id ask you to move your stuff out of the house. You will need to find your own car insurance and cell phone plan. I will continue to keep you on my health insurance until the divorce is final but id ask that you reimburse me. During the seperation I cant be your friend. That time for me will be used to preparing myself for life without the woman I love and taking the best possible care of DD5 that I can.

Know that I dont want this but I will continue with the divorce proceedings. If both sides arent committed there is no chance to repair our M and we should both find new lives. I want to be in a loving caring relationship with the woman I love. If that is not a possibility though I will look for happiness when the divorce is final.

The other plan is the one I would like to pursue.

This is the path of reconciliation and us moving forward hand in hand and saving our M. Its the path that we rebuild our lives together and solve our problems together as a team.

I know this is a very hard and long path but im willing to take that journey with you. I understand that happiness will be tough. It will be tough either way though.

If we do this I am willing to take it very slow though. I know that we cant just jump back in and be immediately happy.

There are 2 things that I ask if we go this path.
1- Committment to the M. This entails stopping the divorce process. I would like a reconciliation agreement. All I ask is that you waive any rights to alimony and a few other protections for the both of us. I dont think you want this regardless. This will allow my parents and family to see this and will aid us in reintroducing you to the family. They want to forgive and that will make it easier.

Id also like a commitment to educating ourselves on find a plan to save our marriage. There are programs out there I know will work for us. We just need to find them. When we get that knowledge we can put together a plan as a team to fight for our marraige. It will be hard work and im up for it. You are the love of my life and I want you with me till my last breathe.

Id also like you just to tell me that you are recommitting yourself to me. It may seem small but it will mean the world to me to hear those words.

2- Close up the remaining paths for contact with COM- I believe that you are not contacting him. I do not trust him entirely though. I feel he may try to contact you again. To this id like you to inform him via a letter that you have recommitted yourself to me and that you want to end all contact with him forever. I know this is a hard thing for you to do.

Id also like to have to have access to your facebook page, email to ensure he isnt contacting you there. I dont believe you are. I just want to be able to prove it to myself. I am open to discussion on this.

I understand you may not be ready for me to move immediately back into the house or the bed. I would like this but im willing to be patient. I would like you to move back into the house as soon as your ready but im willing for you to stay in the guest bedroom. Then as we become more comfortable with each other we can share a bed again.

I know money is a tricky point as well. Please know that I want to provide the best life I can for you and DD5. The changes I have made concerning money are real. I ask that you give me a chance to show them to you.

I want you to find happiness. I know I cant do that. I want you to find something that makes you happy. Be it school, cooking, cake baking, being a housewife, or going back to work. I will support you 100% in whatever decision you want to make. We can make changes to our spending habits and bills to allow us to do this. We will still be able to take those trips we always wanted and have a great life.

I honestly think that happiness is out there. We can find it together. Us being back together is part of it but not the entire solution. I look forward to finding that solution with you.

Please feel free to email me back any questions. I will also be by the house later so we can discuss it if you would like. If you need extra time this week to think im willing to give it too you. I would like to Call DD5 at night but im willing to give you complete privacy for you to think and pray on this decision.

Your Loving husband
BS
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 11:28 AM
I refused to read it because it was to long.

So I don't blame your WW for not reading it.

Also how many times have you been told to knock off relationship talk?

Yet you still do it. WW's are not going to listen. They refuse to be educated.

Stop begging your WW to come back to the marriage.

Yes I said stop begging. Your selling, eplaining, justifying to your WW the reasons to do so are only viewed by her as begging, being needy. Turns offs to women.

Alos stop telling FIL to do thingds as get WW a moving truck. If WW wants a D FIL is not going to help WW lose the house custody CS alimony.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 11:41 AM
This WW is turned off by needy behavior; I agree.

In fact, most women are turned off by needy behavior.

YEG, you are also an open book with no mystery-------- you are predictable.

This has Plan B written all over.

Do it and do not offer explanations.

Close the door, do not keep saying it is open.

Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 11:46 AM
I agree. YEG, your wife has no worries when it comes to you. She KNOWS she can pretty much do what she wants and you'll still be there, even if you carry on with the divorce. So far your ultimatums haven't worked... and I don't think they'll work now. Your wife needs a rude awakening and her safety net (You!) needs to disappear into a deep dark Plan B. Honestly.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 11:56 AM
yeg,
I just wanted to sign in and say that your fixer personality is taking over here, go to your Plan B unless she does a big change in attitude......
Take care of yourself and your child right now, make sure you take care of the legal things to protect your future how ever that unfolds......
Your wife knows all the points in order to make her decision, she is not willing to just jump in and commit to your relationship.....
My therapist says to me that I always want answers to my situation like Now.....he said don't do that, give it time to process all the stages of this situation.....I think you are the same.......
What I did for months with my husband was I just kept saying that if this is the decision he has made for himself and that the OW was what really made him happy that he could chose to leave me and his family as he had known it for 22 years.....
I told him that I loved him and that I didn't want our marriage to end and that I was hanging on to the man I used to know, the good man his family believed in......
I took all the steps to make that happen for him even though I was hurting, when it came down to him being free to making that decision he didn't want to and now is working towards being a great husband and feels regret for all the pain and confusion he has put apon this family.....
It almost seemed like being that soft place for him to be(Plan A) and accepting his feelings and owning my part in the marriage breakdown....it freed him to actually start think about what life would be for him without us and what life would be with someone he had only know for 6 months, no past, no history......a life time is a lot to give up and not usually the end result that the affair partner really thought about.....Be strong in who you are and if she choses not to stay with you in a good marriage let her go for now......when she wakes up you can always try again when she is thinking straight......don't take care of her anymore, let her feel what it will be like without you.....for now make it look like you are moving forward like she seems to want.........keep yourself busy..........good luck.....((hugs))
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 04:32 PM
YEG, i've highlighted my least favorite parts of this email. i'll let the vets advise on Plan B strategic advantage, but i'm just not liking this tone of acquiescence and you-can-have-whatever-you-want-if-you'll-just-come-home. you're talking to her entirely too much, and the more she waffles, the more you entice. STOP.

Originally Posted by YEG
First of all thank you for going to PLACE XXX with me yesterday. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for hugging me before I left as well. The affection really does mean something to me.
STOP IT!! you just said thank you to HER for the anniversary dinner YOU planned. and then "thank you for hugging me"??? do you feel like you owe her a thank you, for real?

Originally Posted by YEG
...Id also like you just to tell me that you are recommitting yourself to me. It may seem small but it will mean the world to me to hear those words.

if she's signing agreements with a poor-me attitude and not showing YOU some gratitude for being willing to let her have a second chance, you can smile kindly and take the papers back from her and say, "if you're not comfortable with the reconciliation agreement, maybe you shouldn't sign it now. i'd hate for you to make a decision you'd regret." SHE IS NOT DOING YOU A FAVOR. YOU ARE DOING HER A FAVOR.

Originally Posted by YEG
..id like you to inform him [OM] via a letter that you have recommitted yourself to me and that you want to end all contact with him forever...I know this is a hard thing for you to do.
nor should you CARE that it's a hard thing to do. no sympathy.

Originally Posted by YEG
...Id also like to have to have access to your facebook page, email to ensure he isnt contacting you there. I dont believe you are. I just want to be able to prove it to myself. I am open to discussion on this.

no you are NOT open to discussion on this, and you don't need to sound all apologetic about wanting access. its either a condition or it isn't. is it one of your conditions, YEG? then it's not arbitrary and she doesn't get to rearrange the boundaries you set.

Originally Posted by YEG
...I understand you may not be ready for me to move immediately back into the house or the bed. I would like this but im willing to be patient. I would like you to move back into the house as soon as your ready but im willing for you to stay in the guest bedroom. Then as we become more comfortable with each other we can share a bed again.
please. do you see the pattern of I WOULD LIKE OUTCOME A, BUT I"M WILLING TO SETTLE FOR OUTCOME B?
Originally Posted by YEG
...I know money is a tricky point as well. Please know that I want to provide the best life I can for you and DD5. The changes I have made concerning money are real. I ask that you give me a chance to show them to you....
[/quote]
let the divorced hard-a55es reply to this one re money--HelpTheLostDads, are you in the building?

YOU WOULD LIKE OUTCOME A, BUT YOU ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT OUTCOME B. YOU USED THIS "I WOULD LIKE/BUT I AM WILLING" LIKE 5 or 6 TIMES IN THIS ONE E-MAIL!!!! DON'T EVER LET HER THINK SHE'S DOING YOU A FAVOR!!!
[/size][size:17pt]
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 08:52 PM
Quote
This has Plan B written all over.

Do it and do not offer explanations.

Close the door, do not keep saying it is open.
She is going to close the door. I understand that. Im not a 180 guy. Sorry. I never was able to do it. PB starts in 2 days anyways. Shouldnt have broke it last time.

Quote
Your wife needs a rude awakening and her safety net (You!) needs to disappear into a deep dark Plan B. Honestly.
Yep. Its the only chance that she comes back now. Just hope I still want her when she does.

Quote
...Be strong in who you are and if she choses not to stay with you in a good marriage let her go for now......when she wakes up you can always try again when she is thinking straight......don't take care of her anymore, let her feel what it will be like without you.....for now make it look like you are moving forward like she seems to want..
If she isnt happy with me she needs to find her happiness somewhere else. Just rip off the bandaid and go.

Quote
STOP IT!! you just said thank you to HER for the anniversary dinner YOU planned. and then "thank you for hugging me"??? do you feel like you owe her a thank you, for real?
Kinda wanted to show her I appreciated it. I never use to say TY.

Quote
if she's signing agreements with a poor-me attitude and not showing YOU some gratitude for being willing to let her have a second chance, you can smile kindly and take the papers back from her and say, "if you're not comfortable with the reconciliation agreement, maybe you shouldn't sign it now. i'd hate for you to make a decision you'd regret." SHE IS NOT DOING YOU A FAVOR. YOU ARE DOING HER A FAVOR.
Im trying to get her to talk to steve. Steve just wants them there he can deal with the martyrs.

Its not going to matter anyways Im 90% sure she wants to go so she needs to leave already.

Quote
no you are NOT open to discussion on this, and you don't need to sound all apologetic about wanting access. its either a condition or it isn't. is it one of your conditions, YEG? then it's not arbitrary and she doesn't get to rearrange the boundaries you set.

NC isnt optional. How we handle the PWs and accounts is. I dont care if I have access to them As long as someone does.

Quote
YOU WOULD LIKE OUTCOME A, BUT YOU ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT OUTCOME B. YOU USED THIS "I WOULD LIKE/BUT I AM WILLING" LIKE 5 or 6 TIMES IN THIS ONE E-MAIL!!!! DON'T EVER LET HER THINK SHE'S DOING YOU A FAVOR!!!
is what it is. Its already sent. Being forceful isnt my strong point. Ill be able to handle Plan B. Thats where this bus is going anyways. Im not giving up but ive lost all hope for a Plan A recovery.

Not much really to say. It either will be enough or it wont. Im just ready for this part to be over. waiting till thursday was stupid since she has already made up her mind. Its all over but the crying now.

Plan B sucks but its the way it is. Ill get use to it. Going to work out today. Then im going to run a few miles. Wee.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 09:00 PM
Quote
Im not giving up but ive lost all hope for a Plan A recovery.


You DO realize that a Plan A recovery is VERY VERY rare, don't you? In fact, I can't recall a single instance where there was a recovery based solely on Plan A since I've been here. I could be wrong, I wouldn't be surprised about that.

A stellar Plan A followed by a very tight, dark Plan B is the order of things, and I think you've done a good job with your Plan A. There's no reason for you to completely give up at this point. In my mind, you're only half way through the plans. Let's see how this goes okay? I can hear the despondency in your words.

(((Yeg)))
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/29/10 10:13 PM
YEG! i read that over--"it's already been sent. it's...already been...SENT...?"
now i feel like a great big jerk for YELLING AT YOU!

you're right on all points, including the thank-yous--get her home and let Steve deal with her. keep your head up, buddy, you're doing brilliant. you can come yell at me on my thread! =)bring your 2x4s, people!

p.s. don't most people have to go to Plan B? isn't it really rare for Plan A alone to bring WS back to their senses? keep in mind, i didn't have the benefit of MB during the early days of our recovery, so i don't know the stats. i thought plan b was pretty much the rule, not the exception.[b][/b]
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 01:51 AM
Quote
You DO realize that a Plan A recovery is VERY VERY rare, don't you? In fact, I can't recall a single instance where there was a recovery based solely on Plan A since I've been here. I could be wrong, I wouldn't be surprised about that.


Here is my problem. The OM is totally out of the picture from all I see. She has no job. She has no income. Only thing she has to fall back on is her parents. She has a child with me. I have a great job. She admits to me that ive made the changes she has wanted for 5 years now and Im saying all the right things. She even says she loves me.

So why wont she give me a chance?

What sins did I commit that were so unpardonable? I can understand her cheating on me even. people make mistakes. After putting me through all that i dont even get a shot?

The other reason is I see PA recoveries all the time on here. WW when they are caught swear off the OM. They are hard. Dont get me wrong but people get through it.

Look at Rn. Once she was caught she went back to her husband. he didnt even have to PA her. We see FWS come on here asking how to get their BS back all the time. They are contrite.

I know they arent the norm but its hard.

Quote
now i feel like a great big jerk for YELLING AT YOU!
No worries. Honestly I dont care what people say. I just like to see responses to my thread. It makes me feel like im not alone in this.

Quote
A stellar Plan A followed by a very tight, dark Plan B is the order of things, and I think you've done a good job with your Plan A. There's no reason for you to completely give up at this point. In my mind, you're only half way through the plans. Let's see how this goes okay? I can hear the despondency in your words.
I follow procedures for a living. I know they work. I know this is my best chance. Honestly I feel like im mearly going through the motions though. I know what im saying to her is getting to her. What she is saying is getting to me too though.

We have been married for 7 years. The first year was great. The next 5 were rough and the last one was pure and total hell capped off in her F^&*ing another guy. She keeps pointing this out to me. maybe I should just start listening. Im Pam Polyanna talking to her. I say the right things but Im starting to doubt them myself. She just hurts me so much. Saying how I was such a terrible husband. Its garbage I know but what am i really saving?

The ONLY reason I havent tapped out yet is because I am scared that I will regret it later if I pull the plug too quick and I dont want the guilt of ruining my daughters life with a broken family.

I know my LB$ is running low. The keep going at all costs attitude is DONE. At this point I just want this over. One way or another. If I had my way it would be in a with her WW but the other option looks better everyday.

I know I wont be able to do a long drawn out scorched earth PB. If we go to it I will let the dates just fall where they may. Where the clerk schedules the court dates is how they will be. If she just bunkers down and waits it out then the M is over. Im not dragging my feet. If she shows contrition or ASKS for more time ill consider that. I just dont expect it.

In the end I kinda feel that i may have wasted 7 years of my life on a bad decision. I got a great daughter out of it but maybe the WW was never M material and I dont feel like wasting another 2 years on a sinking ship. I want love in and care in my life again and while im not going wayward for it im not going to think for a second that it will only be possible with WW.

Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 03:38 AM
Hang in there YEG. One of the most common things in a wayward is that they re-write history. She may have been happy in those years, you have to look at how you felt during that time to gauge how things really were. She is more or less lying to herself to justify her actions, still.

I still have a hard time trying not to believe the old lies that I heard months ago. I know they are not true, but every once in a while they will come back to haunt me. For example, today Sapph was frustrated with the kids when I got home. All she wanted was a little affection from me. I saw that she was sad and instantly thought about the lie that she was not happy for the last 5 years of our marriage. I had to ask her several times if it was the kids or the marriage that was frustrating her. She just told me that a little affection would make her feel better.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 04:20 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Look at Rn. Once she was caught she went back to her husband. he didnt even have to PA her. We see FWS come on here asking how to get their BS back all the time. They are contrite.

no sir. i'm contrite 2 YEARS after the fact, and if you want to know what took it took to get me there, you're going to hear it via email, because it's not fit for this forum. i heartily endorse Plan A and Plan B as described, because i KNOW i would not have responded to Plan A, and that Plan B would have been our first hope at recovery. Plan A AND Plan B would have given me perspective and reminded me of what my marriage was worth. as it stands, i'm on this forum 2 years later still trying to get my mind right.

Originally Posted by YEG
We have been married for 7 years. The first year was great. The next 5 were rough and the last one was pure and total hell capped off in her F^&*ing another guy. She keeps pointing this out to me. maybe I should just start listening. Im Pam Polyanna talking to her. I say the right things but Im starting to doubt them myself. She just hurts me so much. Saying how I was such a terrible husband. Its garbage I know but what am i really saving?
Wheels said it best. WE REWRITE HISTORY. she may very well believe right now that she can't recall a single happy moment out of those 7 years. SHE...IS...LY...ING. hopefully one day she'll recognize the truth--that you were probably good to her, and that she couldn't accept it because she was preoccupied w/ OM.

look, i'm not predicting outcome...your mind's in the right place and you're following through as you should--read Mark1952's thread on hope vs. expectations, though. i can't find the link. everyone's been telling you to you need to squelch your expectations, but that needs to be tempered by a hearty dose of hope.

email me, for real. **edit** i'll tell you precisely why i bounced back, and precisely why YOU are doing the right thing by adhering to Plan A and Plan B.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 03:21 PM
Quote
email me, for real.**edit** i'll tell you precisely why i bounced back, and precisely why YOU are doing the right thing by adhering to Plan A and Plan B.


RN:

Could you post a short summary as to why you bounced back? That will be helpful to YEG a large number of men in this forum.

Thanks

CIAO hurray
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 03:24 PM
Quote
Hang in there YEG. One of the most common things in a wayward is that they re-write history. She may have been happy in those years, you have to look at how you felt during that time to gauge how things really were. She is more or less lying to herself to justify her actions, still.

I still have a hard time trying not to believe the old lies that I heard months ago. I know they are not true, but every once in a while they will come back to haunt me. For example, today Sapph was frustrated with the kids when I got home. All she wanted was a little affection from me. I saw that she was sad and instantly thought about the lie that she was not happy for the last 5 years of our marriage. I had to ask her several times if it was the kids or the marriage that was frustrating her. She just told me that a little affection would make her feel better.

Maybe. I guess we will see. PB will work its magic either way.

Quote
no sir. i'm contrite 2 YEARS after the fact, and if you want to know what took it took to get me there, you're going to hear it via email, because it's not fit for this forum. i heartily endorse Plan A and Plan B as described, because i KNOW i would not have responded to Plan A, and that Plan B would have been our first hope at recovery. Plan A AND Plan B would have given me perspective and reminded me of what my marriage was worth. as it stands, i'm on this forum 2 years later still trying to get my mind right.

Id love to hear the story but im not comfortable doing private emails. Sharing personal topics in an open environment is fine for me but doing personal topics in private with a member of the opposite sex.

Its just a barrier I have to set on myself and I know you understand.

Quote
Wheels said it best. WE REWRITE HISTORY. she may very well believe right now that she can't recall a single happy moment out of those 7 years. SHE...IS...LY...ING. hopefully one day she'll recognize the truth--that you were probably good to her, and that she couldn't accept it because she was preoccupied w/ OM.

I just gotta hope in the program. She seems pretty clear headed already. Very calm and reserved.

Quote
look, i'm not predicting outcome...your mind's in the right place and you're following through as you should--read Mark1952's thread on hope vs. expectations, though. i can't find the link. everyone's been telling you to you need to squelch your expectations, but that needs to be tempered by a hearty dose of hope.

I dont think my mind is in the right place. I think it is giving up fast. The easy D path looks better and better. Maybe PB will help. Distance may make it easier.

I want some hope. Maybe I can get a call in to Obama for a hope stimulus package.

Seriously I want to do this. Im having a hard time with FILs just be patient comments. He doesnt like that I gave her a deadline. I didnt even give her a real ulitmatum. He isnt going to like her getting kicked out and I really dont care anymore. She is making this unbearable. If she wants time to think then go think. Its HIS daughter that is driving the M into the ground not me. The BS you BOTH caused this is getting annoying. I may have not been viligent and was not the best husband but I have taken steps to fix myself and the M. She has done nothing.
Posted By: atena Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 03:46 PM
ILs mostly are on the WS side...for obvious reasons. My FIL still does not understand why I left and later on asked WH to leave the marital home so I could have my home back..FIL thinks I should have not done that when WH had stated clearly for over a year that he wanted to move out ...and that he no longer loved me. Plus he had been in an A for over a year...but still FIL does not get it. They always say: it takes 2....
but it takes one to cheat...I did not make him.
blessing
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 03:51 PM
TJ/

Quote
email me, for real.**edit**. i'll tell you precisely why i bounced back, and precisely why YOU are doing the right thing by adhering to Plan A and Plan B.


RN... this is a HUGE no-no on MB and precisely why private messaging is disabled. This should be an automatic boundary for those in recovery. Do you see that?

This is an anonymous forum, no one knows you IRL or really anything about you. There's no reason to feel uncomfortable about sharing here... we've heard it all, and no one is going to look down their nose at you for sharing something like this. In fact, it would probably be MORE than helpful for some of the BHs on here to hear it.

/TJ
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 03:57 PM
Quote
mail me, for real. **edit** i'll tell you precisely why i bounced back, and precisely why YOU are doing the right thing by adhering to Plan A and Plan B. ]


Nope....

BAD...BAD.... Idea.

There should be NO emailing between members of the opposite sex on this forum....no PRIVATE conversations at all. This is what starts affairs.

committed
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 05:20 PM
Need some input here.

Tommorow the WW and I have a scheduled R talk to discuss her commitment to the M. I need a flow path for the possibilities.

First path is she is willing to recommit. This is unlikely and I donļæ½t think its going to happen. If it does then Im scheduling an appointment with Steve asap.

Second is she wants to separate. This is pretty likely. All the signs are pointing here. If she wants this what do I say?
I realize I cant convice her or educate her. My plan Is to ask her to move out of the house. Im also going to see if she will let me schedule and appointment with steve to talk about dealing with DD5 for the separation. She said she would talk to him for this.

Third Is she ļæ½thinksļæ½ she wants to separate and ļæ½mightļæ½ want a divorce. She will say she hasnļæ½t made up her mind yet. Thatļæ½s also pretty likely. Not quite sure what to do about this. Do I say I need space and ask her to leave? Then later I can give her the PB letter?

Help me come up with a script. I know im going to get the no R talk but this is my PB entry point. I need to know she isnļæ½t coming back in PA for my sanity prior to going PB.

Do I tell her that if she leaves Iļæ½m pursuing a legal separation? Or just let her wonder and sweat it. I must admit im worried I am giving her what she wants by going PB. Its been 2 months.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 05:26 PM
If she does not behave like RN or Sparkle you go to Plan B.

Plan A does not work well with her. She is a Plan B type WW.

I think you know this.

Good luck. In the end you will be fine regardless of the outcome. You are young and a great man. There are millions of women that are dying for men like you.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 05:32 PM
Quote
If she does not behave like RN or Sparkle you go to Plan B.

Plan A does not work well with her. She is a Plan B type WW.

I think you know this.

Good luck. In the end you will be fine regardless of the outcome. You are young and a great man. There are millions of women that are dying for men like you.
I accept that. Its the only thing thats going to knock her off the fence.

Im just looking for words to tell her. The conversation I should have.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 05:57 PM
On D-day i told my wife:

"It is over, I am getting a divorce". That was ,my Plan A-B in one.

With this info she became a cooperative motivated WW and therefore we were able to stayed married. IMHO, you need a motivated WW and your wife may need plan B to become motivated.

Listen to what she says and then announce you are going Plan B with no words regarding your willingness to take her back. If you say once again you are dying to take her back she will not take you seriously.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 06:18 PM
NO MORE THREAD-JACKING AFTER THIS, PROMISE!
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
Quote
email me, for real. ... i'll tell you precisely why i bounced back, and precisely why YOU are doing the right thing by adhering to Plan A and Plan B.
RN:
Could you post a short summary as to why you bounced back? That will be helpful to YEG a large number of men in this forum.
Iļæ½ll post it on my thread to avoid further T/J!
Originally Posted by YEG
Id love to hear the story but im not comfortable doing private emails. Sharing personal topics in an open environment is fine for me but doing personal topics in private with a member of the opposite sex. Its just a barrier I have to set on myself and I know you understand.
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
RN... this is a HUGE no-no on MB and precisely why private messaging is disabled. This should be an automatic boundary for those in recovery. Do you see that?
This is an anonymous forum, no one knows you IRL or really anything about you. There's no reason to feel uncomfortable about sharing here... we've heard it all, and no one is going to look down their nose at you for sharing something like this. In fact, it would probably be MORE than helpful for some of the BHs on here to hear it.
Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Nope....BAD...BAD.... Idea. There should be NO emailing between members of the opposite sex on this forum....no PRIVATE conversations at all. This is what starts affairs.

WHOA. YEG, Stanley, Committed, Meggy, and everyone else who happens across thisļæ½that was GRIEVOUSLY ill-advised and frankly stupid of me. I apologize, and I thank for stepping in to point out what really should have been obvious to me.

I saw that the PM feature was disabled, but I thought it was a tech glitchļæ½it never occurred to me that maybe the administrators realized it was a counterproductive feature for a MARRIAGEļæ½.BUILDERSļæ½.FORUM. And itļæ½s ironic, I posted last night that my internal boundaries are super-strict now, and Iļæ½m all wary and carefulļæ½evidently not so much. Eye-opener. THANK YOU, ALL.
This has led me to some serious thought about boundaries, which I now realize I totally lack.
Done thread-jacking, YEG, sorry!
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Tommorow the WW and I have a scheduled R talk to discuss her commitment to the M. I need a flow path for the possibilities.

STOP THE F-ING R TALK!

You are talking this thing to death. She knows what you want. You are tipping your hand for plan B. Have a date in mind, and if she doesn't fully commit by that date (without talking about it 500 times in between now and then), go to plan B and give her the letter. It's that simple. I don't understand why you need to rehash things out with her every other day. Stop it! It's only going to make her not want to be with you.

Shut up about it, plan A great (i.e. no R talk) for a little while longer, then - BAM - hit her with plan B. That's your plan. Quit with all the overanalyzing and talking through it BS. Maybe if you talk about it more with her for another 100 hours things will change. NOT!

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 06:58 PM
YEG, Mark just gave this advice to another person on another thread who is contemplating going into Plan B. I think you could use it too.

Quote
Before you deliver the Plan B letter, I would state clearly and without any Love Busters that he is now at a crossroads and must choose to either commit to coming home and working on the marriage or leave you alone and stop hurting you. His decision will determine if the Plan B letter is to be delivered. If that is the case, hand it to him and walk away.

No negotiations, no listening to him complain about how you are not being fair or any of that crap can be allowed. Put the ball in his court and see if he returns it or lets it pass.


Very simple... no deep heavy relationship talk, just spell it out... how it is for YOU. You are hurting me and I want it to stop. Either p**p or get off the pot.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 07:21 PM
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Before you deliver the Plan B letter, I would state clearly and without any Love Busters that he is now at a crossroads and must choose to either commit to coming home and working on the marriage or leave you alone and stop hurting you. His decision will determine if the Plan B letter is to be delivered. If that is the case, hand it to him and walk away.

No negotiations, no listening to him complain about how you are not being fair or any of that crap can be allowed. Put the ball in his court and see if he returns it or lets it pass.



Very simple... no deep heavy relationship talk, just spell it out... how it is for YOU. You are hurting me and I want it to stop. Either p**p or get off the pot.

Thats pretty eloquent. Thats what I will do. No trying to educate her. Just ask her if she is willing to commit. No answer or a no im leaving will be essentially the same thing.

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I don't understand why you need to rehash things out with her every other day. Stop it! It's only going to make her not want to be with you.

Its because I hurt. Im a fixer type. Standing back isnt my strong suit. It will be in a few days though.

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WHOA. YEG, Stanley, Committed, Meggy, and everyone else who happens across thisļæ½that was GRIEVOUSLY ill-advised and frankly stupid of me. I apologize, and I thank for stepping in to point out what really should have been obvious to me.

Its no big deal.

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I saw that the PM feature was disabled, but I thought it was a tech glitchļæ½it never occurred to me that maybe the administrators realized it was a counterproductive feature for a MARRIAGEļæ½.BUILDERSļæ½.FORUM. And itļæ½s ironic, I posted last night that my internal boundaries are super-strict now, and Iļæ½m all wary and carefulļæ½evidently not so much. Eye-opener. THANK YOU, ALL.

Lots of people here are needy. I know I am. I just have to be careful. I would be ok 99% of the time I talked to a person of the opposite sex. Its that 1% of the time im worried about.

Its weird because I can FEEL myself getting wayward the longer im in the ENs desert. I FEEL attracted to other women and just start wondering stuff. I just need a friend to talk too. Or there is nothing wrong with dating a person im probably getting a D anyways. Bad bad bad.

So to sum it up its not you its me.
Posted By: Mememe Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 08:01 PM
Yeg, if you haven't got a support network other than this forum then I would suggest getting an IC. I have one, it is just like rent a friend really. It really helps to talk about this stuff.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Its weird because I can FEEL myself getting wayward the longer im in the ENs desert. I FEEL attracted to other women and just start wondering stuff. I just need a friend to talk too. Or there is nothing wrong with dating a person im probably getting a D anyways. Bad bad bad.


That is exactly why you should have stayed in plan B, or move into as fast as you can! You are hurting! You need to get into plan B, to help you, remember plan b is for you not your wife.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 06/30/10 09:40 PM
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Yeg, if you haven't got a support network other than this forum then I would suggest getting an IC. I have one, it is just like rent a friend really. It really helps to talk about this stuff.

I have an IC. I just end up talking about the same thing I do here. My parents are decent as well but they want me to just dump the b&*(#. So i dont talk to them much about it.

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That is exactly why you should have stayed in plan B, or move into as fast as you can! You are hurting! You need to get into plan B, to help you, remember plan b is for you not your wife.

Hold me a spot. Ill be in the Plan B line really soon.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/01/10 01:56 AM
YEG,

The very frustrating thing about trying to help you is that people are giving you great advice, you seem to think you have the better answers, and you come off as needy, pathetic, and completely unattractive to the wife you claim you want back. We're telling you what you need to do, yet you refuse to follow the advice.

You are not a mystery. You are a pathetic puppy dog begging for scraps from the master's table. That is completely unattractive to your wife. You say you're not a 180 kind of guy. Well then you'll be a man who won't recover your marriage.

Being nice will not work. Talking about the relationship ad nauseum, will not work.

Carrying on with your life, pretending not to hurt or need her, will get you much further.

I may sound harrsh, but I'm speaking as a man who behaved as you're behaving. My ex never respected me because I never gave her a reason to. Learn from my mistake.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/01/10 02:56 AM
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You are not a mystery. You are a pathetic puppy dog begging for scraps from the master's table. That is completely unattractive to your wife. You say you're not a 180 kind of guy. Well then you'll be a man who won't recover your marriage.
Odds are against me anyways.

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Being nice will not work. Talking about the relationship ad nauseum, will not work.

Carrying on with your life, pretending not to hurt or need her, will get you much further.

I may sound harsh, but I'm speaking as a man who behaved as you're behaving. My ex never respected me because I never gave her a reason to. Learn from my mistake.


You sound harsh but I cant say your wrong. Alot of the reason she hasn't come back maybe was that I was too available. That will be remedied tommorow.

I couldnt do 180 during PA. i sucks A$$ at it. Gonna have to do a better job at PB. last time i wasnt quite set up. i didnt have my mind right and I let myself get sucked in the first speed bump I got. Everything is lined up now though. Im writing a new PB letter at work tommorow. Im using the PB letter from princessmeggy. DD5 will be at my moms house so she will be away from the fall out. I have DD5 till sunday at least so she wont witness WW breakdown. My parents can watch DD5 if I get too emotional. We all know I have a tendancy to do that. im transferring all the bills to my name from the house. That way she cant mess up my credit. Im dropping her off my cell phone plan.

As an aside I finished day 40 of the love dare today. I guess if there is ever a message from above to move to PB its now.

Should be a quick conversation at least. Hi how was your day? Good thats great. BTW have you decided to recommit to the M? No? heres your note. Exit stage right.

Sure her bag is already packed for the weekend so should be around long enough to eat dinner.

For once there will be no begging, pleading or educating.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/01/10 11:17 AM
nice job, Yeg....
This will make a huge difference for her, if you are gone she will be lost for a while....let that happen, stick with your Plan B and wait her out....
go on with your life, spend time with your kids........
let her feel you not being there for her, not supporting her financially......she will get the message real quick and that's what you are looking for......REALITY!!!!
I'm proud of you, you have learned a lot and have given it a great Plan A so far......but it's time for her to get off the fence.....one way or another your life will go on and be better for you with a little time......
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/01/10 04:51 PM
I weighed myself today.

Im back at 200 lbs exactly. I was at LEAST 230 on D-day 2 months ago to the day.

I ran for 50 minutes yesterday. Id guess around 4 miles. Was pretty good.

I should be under 200 by my next weight watchers weigh in day on monday. Gonna be nice crossing the mental block of 200 pounds.

Back to buisiness.

Plan B letter is written. Im mentally prepared.

One questions. Do you think its appropriate to take her out to dinner first or just go home and have the final go no go on the marriage for I give her the PB letter?
Posted By: pianogal01 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/01/10 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
I weighed myself today.

Im back at 200 lbs exactly. I was at LEAST 230 on D-day 2 months ago to the day.

I ran for 50 minutes yesterday. Id guess around 4 miles. Was pretty good.

I should be under 200 by my next weight watchers weigh in day on monday. Gonna be nice crossing the mental block of 200 pounds.

Back to buisiness.

Plan B letter is written. Im mentally prepared.

One questions. Do you think its appropriate to take her out to dinner first or just go home and have the final go no go on the marriage for I give her the PB letter?


As a FWW myself, I say don't take her out to dinner. Cut her off. I agree with the others, she has no respect for you because you keep throwing yourself at her and looking weak and helpless. Give her the note and walk away. She doesn't want you to be nice to her. And when she does, it's only to take advantage of your weaknesses and kindness. She's using you! She even thinks that she wants you to cut her off and leave her alone. When you finally go dark, she will start to realize what she has done, but as long as you keep coming back to her with your tail between your legs, she will NEVER respect you and what you have been doing to save your marriage. She will continue to sit on the fence and play you for a fool. You really look pathetic to her. I know that's not what you are trying to do and it's really because you love her and you are hurting, but trying to reason like that with a WS does NO GOOD AT ALL. Go dark...NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER. I can guarantee you that if my H had done things the MB way back then, we would have gotten back together much sooner and our recovery wouldn't be near as difficult as it has been.

Hang in there.

PG01
Posted By: loaded Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/01/10 08:34 PM
What is the purpose of taking her out to dinner?
Yeg, you have lost control of this relationship, and nothing you do at this point is going to get you control back except taking it back. The only way to do that is to go to Plan B.
You are kinda being a sucker here, Yeg. She has been using this same trick on you for a very long time, and she has the routine figured out.
Would you rather live with the same messed up situation for another couple years and then have her cheat on you again? Or would you rather get this overwith and possibly have her come back a willing participant in this relationship?
You can do it. Just ballz up and do it. It's what you BOTH need.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/01/10 08:40 PM
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What is the purpose of taking her out to dinner?

Well today was the soft deadline she had to give me an answer on if she is staying or going. I was going to give her that chance to get off of the fence on her own.

I was afraid to just walk right in and ask her. So i was going to offer dinner first. I guess it was one last PA attempt.

I will forgo it though. Wont mean nothing in the end anyways.

So ive got my envelope ready to go. Time to go home. Ill give yall an update later tonite.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/02/10 12:06 AM
PA is short for physical affair, not plan A.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/02/10 01:10 AM
hardly the point, though, is that, you think?

i'm dying of suspense. hope it goes as well as possible. we're all praying for you, YEG. keep us posted.

speaking of posted, i posted that thing on my thread.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/02/10 08:05 PM
How did it go YEG? We need an update.
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/02/10 11:59 PM
**edit**
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 12:29 AM
**edit**
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 02:31 AM
Rn..in front of YEG,

I apoligize to you.

I just hope he is okay.

Tom
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 03:31 AM
Im ok guys.

I cant post long. Things went very very weird and not in according to plan but nothing else does either.

Its a VERY long story taht I will post tommorow or when I have time to do it justice but it appears we are on a path to recovery.

Yea im as shocked as yall.

Anyways I need to get back to my WIFE. I slept in the bed and held her for the first time in MONTHS last night. I also got a kiss for the first time in probably half a year.

Ill keep yall updated.

Sorry aboutt he PA for plan a. Saw others use that and thought I would too.

FYI if your wife is a former electronic surveillance technician for the federal government dont try to put a keylogger on her computer.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 03:52 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Anyways I need to get back to my WIFE. I slept in the bed and held her for the first time in MONTHS last night. I also got a kiss for the first time in probably half a year.

let me be the first to say WHOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
congratulations, YEG!!! ENJOY, WW/NN!!!

Originally Posted by YEG
FYI if your wife is a former electronic surveillance technician for the federal government dont try to put a keylogger on her computer.
LMAO!!
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 01:43 PM
I would be cautious. Ths PLan B only lasted one millisecond.

RN:

As you know some women can act in a loving manner even when they don't feel it. Nothing wrong with that if it becomes a habit.

YEG:

We will follow along with you. We pray to God for a good outcome,

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 02:32 PM
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I would be cautious. Ths Plan B only lasted one millisecond.

Cautious is not the word. Its almost like im walking an even finer line than before. Its like its hanging ona string and im worried that even the smallest mistake will push her away.

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We will follow along with you. We pray to God for a good outcome,
Right now its really good. The long weekend came at a perfect time. Its still very weird since SOO much has happened. All im doing is trying to take care of her and meet her needs still. Im holding off all of the relationship stuff till I can get steve for an appointment.

There is alot of crap that went on friday night and ill share it all. Just cant till I got like an hour to put it all down.
Posted By: redzgirl Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 02:42 PM
[/quote]
Right now its really good. The long weekend came at a perfect time. Its still very weird since SOO much has happened. All im doing is trying to take care of her and meet her needs still. Im holding off all of the relationship stuff till I can get steve for an appointment.

There is alot of crap that went on friday night and ill share it all. Just cant till I got like an hour to put it all down. [/quote]

Hang in there, YEG. Like you, I am in a pretty confusing time in my situation, too. But, all I know is..if I work on ME, everything will work out like it's supposed to. (They weren't lying when they said this stuff is hard!) You and your family are in my prayers!
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 02:46 PM
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Cautious is not the word. Its almost like im walking an even finer line than before. Its like its hanging ona string and im worried that even the smallest mistake will push her away.

You should NOT be the one walking the line. YOU should be the one raising the bar. You would NOT want a FR. I have been told that those are WORSE than the original DDay.

What are the conditions that you have set for her? Where is that BAR? Don't lower it Yeg. You don't want a marriage at ALL costs. You need to set the bar HIGH. Please be careful.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 03:48 PM
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You should NOT be the one walking the line. YOU should be the one raising the bar. You would NOT want a FR. I have been told that those are WORSE than the original DDay.

Well I can tell you D-Day #2 was WAY easier than D-Day #1. Here is the 2 min version.

Just before I went to give her the last chance to recommit and give her the Plan B letter I felt the need to check her purse. While I did I bumped something hard in an outside cell phone pocket.

I opened it and I found her affair phone.

Quick scan of it showed he had contacted her after I called his command through a third party.

I looked through the texts and found 40 something from him and 14 from her. He had been fighting for her too.

Short of it I realized that they had met earlier that very day.

I went upstairs and after pinning her down she gave it up. SHe didnt believe I knew about the Aphone though. She accused me of fishing.

After that we started talking though. She quickly realized I still had a tracker on her car. She use to be in govt law enforcement.

I knew about her meeting him.

Later I confessed to her I had a keylogger on her computer. She had know about that almost instantly. She actually called the state law enforcement division to see the legality of it. That explains the frequent password changes.

Anyways we started talking. Kept talking. She thought I was gonna throw her out for sure. I told her that was NOT the case. I still wanted her to be my wife.

Anyways about that time she asked me what the envelope was for. i told her it was my Plan B letter. She has read SAA and she KNEW what that was.

About that time we went running together. We ended up driving all over the town looking for her favorite drink. We had a great night.

Apparently exposure had worked its magic. She had met him 2 times she said (matched up with the GPS logs). It was horribly uncomfortable. They had nothing to say in person. They were still talking on the phone though. I read the messages. Mostly him saying I love you baby again and again. There were some ILY back too.

In the end she just had realized that the WW/OM relationship was tainted. Between that and lieing to her parents about still contacting him she felt terrible.

She recommitted the marriage to me and we talked about EPs. I agreed for her to write a NC letter to him. She knows about the KL. The A phone was destroyed. She knows about the GPS now.

In the end though she is still very foggy. She is in love with 2 men still and she knows one of us is going to be VERY hurt. She wishes she could clone herself so both of us could be happy. I didnt bad mouth the OM. i was just a shoulder for her to cry on. She was also mad about me going back on my word of contacting the OM. She didnt know that he had called my work first.

We are planning a trip to College town USA this weekend just the 2 of us. We are looking for ways to get more in touch with each other. We both did alot of deceiving the last 2 months. We both see openness and honesty as key now.

Anyways thats the 10 cent version Ill flesh it out later.

Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 04:24 PM
YEG:

Do you realize it was quite obvious she was breaking NC?
It was obvious she was sitting in the fence and trying to keep both sides of the equation in a state of equilibrium.

However, this type of activity is not uncommon.

My WW was 100% dedicated to save the marriage and there was no "if or buts" that she would choose me over OM at all times. However, she felt awful about inflicting pain to OM and hence tried to provide some comfort to OM. Her OM also begged 24/7 and this has an effect in WWs that crave admiration.

I also learned that post D-day I LBd my WW 24/7 and she felt I was getting ready to divorce her. In other words she felt I could change my mind and see the lawyer. This made her to say enough encouraging words to OM in case her marriage did not survive.

In the end the only thing that works is hermetic NC.

I am worried that you have lost all surveillance, but as you will see--------------------------in the end it really does not matter. If she wants to break NC she will find a way.

Posted By: Pepperband Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 04:49 PM
YEG

Have you read This thread about FALSE RECOVERY?

FR = affair never ended or restarted during recovery
toe tap

(deleted extra crap)

Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 04:55 PM
I don't know, Yeg. She has still kept her affair phone until yesterday when you found it. If you had not found it, she would still have it.

They are still texting with I love yous. They have met up twice in person very recently.

She TELLS you it's awkward. However, her actions speak a whole different statement.

I wish you luck, and I hate to be negative. But all of this seems contrived on her part and she's saying what you want to hear so she is not thrown out. And you are so desperate to have her back that it seems like no matter what she says despiter her actions, you'll just take it at face value.

But I could be wrong. And I hope I am.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 04:59 PM
Ya sorry YEG...but I feel the same way.

Just sounds soo fishy!

All I can say really is good luck and I hope it's not a FR laugh
Posted By: InLikeFlynn Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 05:44 PM
You should of kept the phone and showed it to his Command. He was disobeying a direct order!!!! His career would have been over that instant!!
Posted By: AheadOfTheCurve Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 06:15 PM
YEG, this is not good. In my case, my then-WW promised NC, then proceeded to break it eight times before it stuck. I found her A-phone and destroyed it, so she found another way to contact him -- thru a skanky (now ex-) friend.

She fought it all like a bass pulled from a lake. And this was with an AP that was running like he77 the other direction as fast as he could because he'd successfully gaslighted his W and didn't want any more trouble.

I'm afraid she's playing you. Demand she write an NC letter -- and for her to write a letter to his command, giving details of recent contact.

If she's willing to toss him to the wolves, you MIGHT have something worthwhile.

Maybe.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 07:23 PM
YEG:

My FWW used to post here and she wanted very badly to save the marriage. And yet---she broke NC because OM was hurting and she was in withdrawal.

Many WWs feel they can only give up the affair slowly rather than suddenly-----hence they break NC to medicate the addiction. Even if your wife decides she wants recovery she will feel very bad about dumping OM. She may tell herself "I need to let him go slowly", but this slow maneuver is also for herself.

If a WW is hesitant about saving the marriage breakage of NC is almost a given.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 08:37 PM
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Do you realize it was quite obvious she was breaking NC?
It was obvious she was sitting in the fence and trying to keep both sides of the equation in a state of equilibrium.
yes this goes back to her fog and entitlement. In her mind since I broke my side of the bargain and contacted him directly our deal of NC was off. So she didnt feel bad about talking to him. yes its textbook WW behavior. Its entitled thinking.

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I am worried that you have lost all surveillance, but as you will see--------------------------in the end it really does not matter. If she wants to break NC she will find a way.

I will NEVER be able to prevent an A phone. Only now I know the extint of her knowledge about getting them without any paper trail. In her old job she use to have to research phone records on drug dealers and other bad guys. She still has friends that can help her on the inside. Her phone was totally off the radar. She claims she got an old friend in to debug the house. She is paranoid.

Only thing I can do is do my best to ensure NC. Thats it. The KL she will sniff out in less than a day just like last time. She isnt going to slip on a GPS banana peel again. She has twice now.

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Have you read This thread about FALSE RECOVERY?

FR = affair never ended or restarted during recovery
I have. It sucks. Im also backed up against a wall. My choice is to go Pb with a wife that is willing to take EPs and talk to steve or take a shot at recovery. Ill snoop as best I can but thats all I can do.

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I wish you luck, and I hate to be negative. But all of this seems contrived on her part and she's saying what you want to hear so she is not thrown out. And you are so desperate to have her back that it seems like no matter what she says despiter her actions, you'll just take it at face value.

But I could be wrong. And I hope I am.
It looks bad I agree. All I can do is give it a try though. Hope for the best. i know there are TONS of red flags.

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You should of kept the phone and showed it to his Command. He was disobeying a direct order!!!! His career would have been over that instant!!
Ive got the phone number. It isnt registered to her. She destroyed it. All i can do is if she leaves me anyways is go back and make a big stink. He is either going to korea, afghanistan or iraq soon. IMO that makes phone contact very likely since people are desperate for any support over there.

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I'm afraid she's playing you. Demand she write an NC letter -- and for her to write a letter to his command, giving details of recent contact.

If she's willing to toss him to the wolves, you MIGHT have something worthwhile.
She wont. Can tell you that now.

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My FWW used to post here and she wanted very badly to save the marriage. And yet---she broke NC because OM was hurting and she was in withdrawal.

Many WWs feel they can only give up the affair slowly rather than suddenly-----hence they break NC to medicate the addiction. Even if your wife decides she wants recovery she will feel very bad about dumping OM. She may tell herself "I need to let him go slowly", but this slow maneuver is also for herself.

If a WW is hesitant about saving the marriage breakage of NC is almost a given.
This is a very likely scenario unfortunately. Just going to hav to be vigilant and watch for the warning signs of contact.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 09:50 PM
YEG,

She is still an ADDICT, and will continue to display addict behavior. She may have "committed" just so you wouldn't expose anymore. You need to expose to OM's command, and you need to expose to her parents again. You also need to be even MORE vigilant about preventing contact until she gets through withdrawal.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 11:25 PM
YEG, i may have congratulated you too soon...you sounded so happy i figured the news was unequivocally awesome.

this makes me really uneasy...if she's been in constant contact with him, i don't know how she can be in the mindframe to make a decision re commitment at all, one way or the other. she's not speaking from a position of post-withdrawal misery...i don't know, i'm baffled.

i don't like the implications re keylogger discovery, a-phone (is it prepaid wireless or does OM have it on HIS account?), etc...it sounds as though she's almost proud to have gotten under your radar.

look, she very well may be legitimately sorry and ready to recommit fully to the marriage--but like Scotland said, don't let go of your conditions and don't fail to hold her accountable for fear of pushing her away.

stay cunning as serpents and gentle as doves--we all hope she does the right thing!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 11:27 PM
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She is still an ADDICT, and will continue to display addict behavior. She may have "committed" just so you wouldn't expose anymore. You need to expose to OM's command, and you need to expose to her parents again. You also need to be even MORE vigilant about preventing contact until she gets through withdrawal.

Absolutely.

She self exposed to her parents. I was there for it. They are pissed. Command is a much trickier point. If she finds out she will use that as an excuse to resume contact again. Im going to work on it though.

Right now I need prayers more than anything. Strength for WW to do the right thing. Strength for me not to LB. I also need to keep my needs in check.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 11:31 PM
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i don't like the implications re keylogger discovery, a-phone (is it prepaid wireless or does OM have it on HIS account?), etc...it sounds as though she's almost proud to have gotten under your radar.

Its progress.

No its under nobodies name. She KNOWS how to hide the paper trail since she use to FIND the criminals paper trail on prepaid cells off all the time.

I wouldnt say proud. Her parents feel VERY betrayed after giving her the time and space to make her decision. She lied to THEM as well. Dad is barelly talking to them. her excuse for lieing to them is really poor. She felt I needed her dad more than she did. So she lied to him so he wouldnt have a conflict of interest.

Yea its very entitled.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/03/10 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
[Command is a much trickier point. If she finds out she will use that as an excuse to resume contact again.

You didn't promise AGAIN not to contact his command, did you. If she is in TRUE NC, she won't know you contacted his command, After contacting his command, I'd let him know that you found the "affair phone," and remind him you will be going straight to his command every time he contacts your WW. I would let him know that he "lost the war" for your WW, so it would be in his best interest to surrender now and retreat than face certain death.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 01:30 AM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
Originally Posted by YEG
[Command is a much trickier point. If she finds out she will use that as an excuse to resume contact again.

You didn't promise AGAIN not to contact his command, did you. If she is in TRUE NC, she won't know you contacted his command, After contacting his command, I'd let him know that you found the "affair phone," and remind him you will be going straight to his command every time he contacts your WW. I would let him know that he "lost the war" for your WW, so it would be in his best interest to surrender now and retreat than face certain death.


Well there is a BAD side to that as well. He HAS been warned by his command. THere problem is now is he could get kicked OUT. That would be a disaster. He is from the same city as my WW. His parents live less than 1 mile from my parents and MIL and FIL. That would leave him very conviently right by me. With NOTHING over his head. He would have nothing BETTER to do than chase my wife.

Posted By: ManInMotion Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
Well there is a BAD side to that as well. He HAS been warned by his command. THere problem is now is he could get kicked OUT. That would be a disaster. He is from the same city as my WW. His parents live less than 1 mile from my parents and MIL and FIL. That would leave him very conviently right by me. With NOTHING over his head. He would have nothing BETTER to do than chase my wife.

Do it anyway. He has to see that you mean business, and this is the way to do it. If you do NOT do anything, he will likely see you as offering weak and ineffective competition to his efforts to steal your WW away from you.
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 07:30 AM
So let me get this straight. You won't talk to his command becaue he'll get kicked out and contact your wife. How is this a true recovery if you're scared that he'll contact your wife. This means that he has all the power and you have none. And they all know this. Your wife knows this.

Do you not realize you look weak willed? Do you think your wife really wants you if she views you as weak willed? He did not care enough to ruin you marriage. Why do you care enough to care about his career? I don't understand why you didn't take this phone to his command.

I wish some of you guys would take charge in your marriages.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 01:49 PM
Is the OM enlisted or an officer?

I am certain the military will not put up with affairs among active duty members. However, I bet they could care less if an active duty person had extramarital sex, particularly if the soldier is enlisted. Furthermore, this is not the 1940s-50s-------the military is much more liberal.

I don't believe it s the duty of the commanding officer to make sure soldiers behave like choir boys when they are off duty.

Exposure has been done on that end. Anything else may be perceived as harassment and if you harass somewhat regularly they will eventually retaliate. The OM retaliation may simply be persistent stalking.

As for breakage of NC:

Even the most dedicated and motivated WW may break NC even if they have no intentions of re-starting the affair. The addiction is difficult and many times WW feels sorry for ending the affair and causing pain to OM. It is very hard to go cold turkey in any relationship.

A good understanding of why there is such a thing as withdrawal is cruciual for the WW. It is also important to understand that romantic passionate love can co-exist with calm long term love and that OWs are often torn between these two. The good news is that romantic passionate love subsides with NC.

NC is everything and needs to be discussed with WW. Once she understands that NC is for her own good she may show more cooperation. If WW does not see why NC is so crucial she may interpret BHs actions as irrational or even controlling.

Lastly, you cannot make anyone do what you want them to do. Sometimes WW wants to leave the marriage despite your best wishes and all the Plan As and Bs in the planet. I never told my WW "don't leave the marriage". The door was always open if she wanted to leave.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Well there is a BAD side to that as well. He HAS been warned by his command. THere problem is now is he could get kicked OUT. That would be a disaster. He is from the same city as my WW. His parents live less than 1 mile from my parents and MIL and FIL. That would leave him very conviently right by me. With NOTHING over his head. He would have nothing BETTER to do than chase my wife.

Quit making excuses. Expose to his command. He's not going to get kicked out. Regardless of that, you said his fear was that he would have nothing better to do than chase your wife. HE'S ALREADY CHASING YOUR WIFE! At least make some consequences for his actions. You keep overthinking things. Just take quick decisive action. Remember, exposure kills affairs. Don't let the affair off the hook by refusing to finish it off.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 07:23 PM
Some days I just want to throw myself in front of a bus. Please tell me how pathetic I am. I really appreciate it. Im already a mass of cr&p that let his wife run around on him from years. I have no balls what so ever. Im afraid to death that my wife is going to leave me. Im a sad pathetic man and im surprised she made it with me this long. Id probably have cheated on me years ago and punched out.

To the point of just walking away from the whole thing. Whats the point anyways? I cant win. All im going to do is continue to get played and played until I have nothing left then she will just leave me.

Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Some days I just want to throw myself in front of a bus. Please tell me how pathetic I am. I really appreciate it. Im already a mass of cr&p that let his wife run around on him from years. I have no balls what so ever. Im afraid to death that my wife is going to leave me. Im a sad pathetic man and im surprised she made it with me this long. Id probably have cheated on me years ago and punched out.

To the point of just walking away from the whole thing. Whats the point anyways? I cant win. All im going to do is continue to get played and played until I have nothing left then she will just leave me.


What's going on? I thought she agreed to a recovery?
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 08:19 PM
YEG,

Just looked in here. I was on the computer to plan the meals and groceries I need to prepare for my own W coming here tomrrow for a couple of days. I am truely sorry to see you feeling like this YEG. I take it something serious happened that you had not anticipated. I hope that there are a few veterans still around this holiday to offer advice and encouragement.

YEG you are NOT pathetic. STOP IT!!. You have simply made a nymber of mistakes by going against MB concepts and the advice of others here. My gut feeling tho YEG is that you don't seem to be in a good enough emotional or mental state to handle this at this time. You need some relief. I would advise you to take a deep breath and as best you can get to your Plan B..finally. If this is just not an impulsive reaction on your part, and if your W did do something to cause you this much pain to relate your feelings in this manner, then you do need to back off from her. I can't remember if you are in IC YEG, but I would also advise you to locate a pro-marriage psychologist who is also very adept at promoting self change.

Well, will pray, is all I can do. Take very good care.

Tom





Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 08:49 PM
See I just feel like im gonna get snookered.

I thought I was doing the right thing by getting as far as I did. Now I just feel im wasting my time again. Ive been seeing all weekend how im a weak F@#$ up.

Now regular as clockwork she isnt so sure again. Its like she gave me just enough to keep me from tossing her. I KNOW she is cake eatting. She is keeping up BOTH on a string. Now she wants to see what this weekend really means. Bleh.

All she has been saying all weekend was how much fun we are having. Now she is unsure again if she has the energy to keep going.

At the same time she is holding my hand, kissing me and sleeping in the same bed as me.

its killing me. I feel like im getting totally PLAYED just like yall do. Now DD5 thinks everything is fine again. Now my parents are on board. Then she pulls this $hi+. So NOW if i go PB my parents arent ever going to support her. They feel we have already confused DD5 enough. Im going to look like an A$$ to her parents since im not happy being patient with her. I also am going to feel stupid kicking her out when she is making progress.

She will also run right to him as well. At least i wont have to witness it since all monitoring is off.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 09:00 PM
YEG:

I am not surprised at all she is in roller coaster mode and waffling back and forth.

I certainly did not expect a 180 degree turn around.

Why do you see this as a setback?

Don't fell bad because she is uncertain. This has nothing to do with you? Do not feel pressured by the mandates of MB. No one can do this perfectly and no WW turns around perfectly either.

Did you say she is holding hands with you and that you slept with her? That is a whole lot more than before!!!!!

Be nice, firm, funny, graceful. No not cry, beg, or talk about OM. Do not put OM down, that is a no no.



Posted By: atena Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 09:05 PM
It is hard, but you are in plan A and this is typical. She is taking you for a ride. What about practicing detachment?
If it is hard to sleep with her, and it must be given her crazy behaviour, you can ask her to please sleep in a different part of the house till she is sure she can be ok sleeping with you.
Do not attach yourself to her too much. Attachment is what brings pain. Jesus said so ( be ready do forsake your own mother etc...for me.) and Buddha said the same thing 600 years earlier. The root of all pain is attachement-desire.
It is human to be attached, but if you practice not having any expectations from her and if you say to yourself: am I happier alone or with this woman? Do I want to be happy without her or unhappy with her.
Ignore her. Be nice, do plan a but ignore her fits and tantrum. Pretend she is doing that to someone else, not you.
Live your life as if all the bad things are happeing to someone else, not you.That is the intro course to practicing detachement.
Try it, you will feel a lot more empowered. Take back your power. She has your power. You gave it to her. Come back to yourself. Love yourself.
blessing
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
See I just feel like im gonna get snookered.

I thought I was doing the right thing by getting as far as I did. Now I just feel im wasting my time again. Ive been seeing all weekend how im a weak F@#$ up.

Now regular as clockwork she isnt so sure again. Its like she gave me just enough to keep me from tossing her. I KNOW she is cake eatting. She is keeping up BOTH on a string. Now she wants to see what this weekend really means. Bleh.

All she has been saying all weekend was how much fun we are having. Now she is unsure again if she has the energy to keep going.

At the same time she is holding my hand, kissing me and sleeping in the same bed as me.

its killing me. I feel like im getting totally PLAYED just like yall do. Now DD5 thinks everything is fine again. Now my parents are on board. Then she pulls this $hi+. So NOW if i go PB my parents arent ever going to support her. They feel we have already confused DD5 enough. Im going to look like an A$$ to her parents since im not happy being patient with her. I also am going to feel stupid kicking her out when she is making progress.

She will also run right to him as well. At least i wont have to witness it since all monitoring is off.

YEG...i hate it for you, dude. i have no advice. you're getting advice from the hard-a55 dads who've been through it, all i can do is throw you a little perspective now n then, and if WW has ME confused and conflicted i can't even imagine where your mind's at. what is up with some plan b? if you're going to let her stay while she makes up her mind yet again, how bout this:

ok, re monitoring--would she offer in good faith to TELL you if OM tries to contact her? this is not as dumb as it sounds. it tells her, yes, i trust you, within reason, although you've given me reason not to. it puts the onus on her to NOT avoid getting caught, but to AVOID LYING. it takes all the fun little spy games and the accompanying illicit thrill out of the equation.
it says, "OK, WW, i'm not going to bother with monitoring, because it's eating up time that i could be spending doing something ELSE. if you want to kiss and hold hands and sleep in my bed, though, I'm going to ask that you extend me the courtesy of not conducting your affair while you're deciding.
do not call him or text him. OK? all i have is your word. if your word is worth anything--and i'm still prepared to believe that it is--i won't feel compelled to monitor. if he calls or texts you, you're to tell me immediately. OK? Ok."

it's asking her to do something because it's RIGHT, and it takes you out of the equation as a "common enemy" for WW and OM. and of course, if she breaks her word, Plan B on the spot. also, if you extend her the opportunity w/ an air of confidence, she's going to assume it's because you have some James Bond monitoring stuff up your sleeve. let her think you've got the eye-in-the-sky. let that serve as her conscience for a while til she gets her own back.

p.s. OM sounds like a scum-sucking mutant dinosaur toad.


("im not going to offer any advice," she advised advisorily).
Posted By: SugarCane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by RemainNameless
ok, re monitoring--would she offer in good faith to TELL you if OM tries to contact her? this is not as dumb as it sounds. it tells her, yes, i trust you, within reason, although you've given me reason not to. it puts the onus on her to NOT avoid getting caught, but to AVOID LYING. it takes all the fun little spy games and the accompanying illicit thrill out of the equation.
it says, "OK, WW, i'm not going to bother with monitoring, because it's eating up time that i could be spending doing something ELSE. if you want to kiss and hold hands and sleep in my bed, though, I'm going to ask that you extend me the courtesy of not conducting your affair while you're deciding.
do not call him or text him. OK? all i have is your word. if your word is worth anything--and i'm still prepared to believe that it is--i won't feel compelled to monitor. if he calls or texts you, you're to tell me immediately. OK? Ok."

it's asking her to do something because it's RIGHT, and it takes you out of the equation as a "common enemy" for WW and OM. and of course, if she breaks her word, Plan B on the spot. also, if you extend her the opportunity w/ an air of confidence, she's going to assume it's because you have some James Bond monitoring stuff up your sleeve. let her think you've got the eye-in-the-sky. let that serve as her conscience for a while til she gets her own back.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like incredibly bad advice.

This wife is till wayward, and a BS should NOT take the word of a wayward. No BS should be encouraged to trust his WS. Waywards lie about contact as naturally as breathing. This advice is leading YEG straight into a false recovery.

My being unable to monitor my H's affair, which took place when he worked abroad, did nothing to stop the illicit thrill he experienced by escaping from domesticity, his enjoyment of both mine and his OW's worship and his addiction to the meetings for sex. I became unable to monitor events because he caught on to the fact that I was reading his workplace mobile, and he simply left it at work. When he was forced to bring it home to take it abroad, he arranged with his girlfriend not to text him on it. For months I was unable to find out anything.

I eventually found out about the still ongoing affair (on about the 4th major D Day, after 3.5 years of the affair) when she did indeed text him on it - knowing that I would read the texts, and hoping that I would throw out H. She told me this in so many words when we spoke on the phone.

Dr Harley advises spying. I have never seen anything written by him that advocates asking a wayward to give her word.

I can see from what YEG writes that spying is nearly impossible with his very tech-savvy wife, but telling him to ask for her word, stop spying and then stick to his side of the deal when she will no such thing herself is dangerous.
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 10:32 PM
Stan,

Imho you are wrong. Romantic passionate love cannot co-exist with what you call long-term calm love. That cannot be the case for MOST people. Most normal people would react vehemtly against an invasion on their sacred trust, especially if children are involved. I feel this is a most immoral view of marriage, the strife that every married couple goes thru, and the sanctity of exclusiveness. Most of us have only one chance in life to have a sacred, exclusive, and sanctified relationship within marriage.

I am sorry but I have to strongly express my opinion agaisnt your's.

Tom
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by RemainNameless
ok, re monitoring--would she offer in good faith to TELL you if OM tries to contact her? this is not as dumb as it sounds. it tells her, yes, i trust you, within reason, although you've given me reason not to. it puts the onus on her to NOT avoid getting caught, but to AVOID LYING. it takes all the fun little spy games and the accompanying illicit thrill out of the equation.
it says, "OK, WW, i'm not going to bother with monitoring, because it's eating up time that i could be spending doing something ELSE. if you want to kiss and hold hands and sleep in my bed, though, I'm going to ask that you extend me the courtesy of not conducting your affair while you're deciding.
do not call him or text him. OK? all i have is your word. if your word is worth anything--and i'm still prepared to believe that it is--i won't feel compelled to monitor. if he calls or texts you, you're to tell me immediately. OK? Ok."

it's asking her to do something because it's RIGHT, and it takes you out of the equation as a "common enemy" for WW and OM. and of course, if she breaks her word, Plan B on the spot. also, if you extend her the opportunity w/ an air of confidence, she's going to assume it's because you have some James Bond monitoring stuff up your sleeve. let her think you've got the eye-in-the-sky. let that serve as her conscience for a while til she gets her own back.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like incredibly bad advice.

This wife is till wayward, and a BS should NOT take the word of a wayward. No BS should be encouraged to trust his WS. Waywards lie about contact as naturally as breathing. This advice is leading YEG straight into a false recovery.

My being unable to monitor my H's affair, which took place when he worked abroad, did nothing to stop the illicit thrill he experienced by escaping from domesticity, his enjoyment of both mine and his OW's worship and his addiction to the meetings for sex. I became unable to monitor events because he caught on to the fact that I was reading his workplace mobile, and he simply left it at work. When he was forced to bring it home to take it abroad, he arranged with his girlfriend not to text him on it. For months I was unable to find out anything.

I eventually found out about the still ongoing affair (on about the 4th major D Day, after 3.5 years of the affair) when she did indeed text him on it - knowing that I would read the texts, and hoping that I would throw out H. She told me this in so many words when we spoke on the phone.

Dr Harley advises spying. I have never seen anything written by him that advocates asking a wayward to give her word.

I can see from what YEG writes that spying is nearly impossible with his very tech-savvy wife, but telling him to ask for her word, stop spying and then stick to his side of the deal when she will no such thing herself is dangerous.

SugarCane, i'm sorry to hear of your situation. You're speaking from a position of experience, and your post made me realize i need to clarify, big-time.

right now he's not doing any monitoring at ALL, and she knows it. i assumed he was going to line up something, tech-savvy or not--in the interrim, what's wrong with ASKING for her word? it's legitimate even in plan a to DEMAND THAT ALL CONTACT CEASE. i took for granted that there would be new spying techniques lined up--otherwise how would he know whether or not she was holding up her end of the verbal deal?

at this point she's saying she's willing to recommit--which gives him a chance to impose conditions. to clarify--YEG, obviously you're not going to blindly trust her. spying reinstated go without saying.

SugarCane, thank you--i didn't mean for it to sound like he should actually give up on spying, i'm saying, don't let her think she's outsmarted you, and give her a chance AS A "RECOMMITTED" wife to prove her commitment with a simple TEST of good faith. and it's only a TEST if you can test it. i.e. if you're NOT monitoring her, how would you KNOW if she's keeping her word and therby hold her accountable?
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 11:32 PM
YEG

Looks like it going to rain here tonight but fireworks still on and my son and his intended are picking me up soon. Do you know what...I took my W to fireworks 43 years ago today to fireworks in my hometown in Wis. and we watched them and she was impressed.

Now a question for You. I would like to know how you would respond and address this situation. I am bringing C home here for tomorrow and Tues. Tuesday is her birthday and I am taking her out to dinner. Quick facts: married 41 years, she is in a nursing home, and we have not lived together since last end of August. So, when I talked to her today she is cold and upset that I did not make the effort to call her earlier, or try to get her here today. (risk is if she is discovered here could damage my lease on the condo). I told her last week we are sleeping on Our bed. She doesn't like it supposidly cause I snore and I really do and realize it and have bought otc meds.

I pick her up at 8 am tomorrow morning. So YEG, I am interested in Your view, would you push it or not. I want to ask you this becasue altho you are alot younger, and you do seem like a decent guy who i would like a comment from, but also to get your focus on trying to focus on otheres as well.

Thanks. Happy 4th and am off now.

Tom




Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by Tom2010
Stan,

Imho you are wrong. Romantic passionate love cannot co-exist with what you call long-term calm love. That cannot be the case for MOST people. Most normal people would react vehemtly against an invasion on their sacred trust, especially if children are involved. I feel this is a most immoral view of marriage, the strife that every married couple goes thru, and the sanctity of exclusiveness. Most of us have only one chance in life to have a sacred, exclusive, and sanctified relationship within marriage.

I am sorry but I have to strongly express my opinion agaisnt your's.

Tom

I am unable to do love like that and it seems you are the same.

However, everyday men and women indulge in cake eating affairs.

Furthermore, ask any cake eating wayward if it is possible to feel romantic passion for OP and calm long lasting love at home with the spouse.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by RemainNameless
[ok, re monitoring--would she offer in good faith to TELL you if OM tries to contact her? this is not as dumb as it sounds. it tells her, yes, i trust you, within reason, although you've given me reason not to.

RN, that would be dishonest and foolhardy. First off, he doesn't trust her. She is untrustworthy. And affording trust to an untrustworthy person is foolish and serves no purpose. He should tell her he DOES NOT TRUST HER and give her an opportunity to earn his trust.

Trust must be earned. And even then, it should never go back to what it was before. It was TOO MUCH TRUST that led to the affair in the first place.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by RemainNameless
[right now he's not doing any monitoring at ALL, and she knows it. i assumed he was going to line up something, tech-savvy or not--in the interrim, what's wrong with ASKING for her word?

A better solution than asking for the word of a liar is to ask for PROOF. If she opens up her life and makes it completely transparent, he won't have to ASK, he will be able to SEE with his own eyes. She will need to figure out how to PROVE she is being faithful.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
So let me get this straight. You won't talk to his command becaue he'll get kicked out and contact your wife. How is this a true recovery if you're scared that he'll contact your wife. This means that he has all the power and you have none. And they all know this. Your wife knows this.

Do you not realize you look weak willed? Do you think your wife really wants you if she views you as weak willed? He did not care enough to ruin you marriage. Why do you care enough to care about his career? I don't understand why you didn't take this phone to his command.

I wish some of you guys would take charge in your marriages.

YEG, are you telling me you have not exposed this affair to the OM's COMMAND? Why is that?

Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/04/10 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by RemainNameless
[ok, re monitoring--would she offer in good faith to TELL you if OM tries to contact her? this is not as dumb as it sounds. it tells her, yes, i trust you, within reason, although you've given me reason not to.

RN, that would be dishonest and foolhardy. First off, he doesn't trust her. She is untrustworthy. And affording trust to an untrustworthy person is foolish and serves no purpose. He should tell her he DOES NOT TRUST HER and give her an opportunity to earn his trust.

Trust must be earned. And even then, it should never go back to what it was before. It was TOO MUCH TRUST that led to the affair in the first place.

Melody, you are absolutely correct--SugarCane also posted an objection, and i realized i hadn't made it clear what i was suggesting: i apologize for the confusion.

Originally Posted by RemainNameless
right now he's not doing any monitoring at ALL, and she knows it. i assumed he was going to line up something, tech-savvy or not--in the interrim, what's wrong with ASKING for her word? it's legitimate even in plan a to DEMAND THAT ALL CONTACT CEASE. i took for granted that there would be new spying techniques lined up--otherwise how would he know whether or not she was holding up her end of the verbal deal?

at this point she's saying she's willing to recommit--which gives him a chance to impose conditions. to clarify--YEG, obviously you're not going to blindly trust her. spying reinstated go without saying.


SugarCane, thank you--i didn't mean for it to sound like he should actually give up on spying, i'm saying, don't let her think she's outsmarted you, and give her a chance AS A "RECOMMITTED" wife to prove her commitment with a simple TEST of good faith. and it's only a TEST if you can test it. i.e. if you're NOT monitoring her, how would you KNOW if she's keeping her word and therby hold her accountable?

I'm sorry for the confusion, all!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 12:07 AM
Thanks for the clarification, RN. Its important that he understand that it is excessive trust that leads to affairs.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 01:04 AM
I expect sporadic contact even if WW is dedicated to save the marriage. The contact will become less frequent over time ann then one day there will not be anymore.

With no ability to spy I see nothing wrong about asking WW to be truthful. There is nothing to lose with asking.

The important thing is to see some progress.

Can anyone avoid a false recovery?

Yes! Do not try to recover and get a divorce.

False recovery will have to be an acceptable risk.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
ICan anyone avoid a false recovery?

Well of course. That is why Dr Harley specifies a very strict path to recovery. A false recovery is much more painful than the initial discovery of an affair because by then, the BS is extremely beaten down. This is the main reason why Steve Harley recommends coaching with him BEFORE Plan B is ended, for example, in order to make sure there is a PLAN IN PLACE to recover the marriage. Without a plan it is a disaster.

The plan for recovery is very specific:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley in Requirements for Recovery
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
continued here
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 02:29 AM
Quote
If it is hard to sleep with her, and it must be given her crazy behaviour, you can ask her to please sleep in a different part of the house till she is sure she can be ok sleeping with you.
Nope being close to her physically is no problem. Ill hold her all day if she will let me.

Quote
p.s. OM sounds like a scum-sucking mutant dinosaur toad.
hes just a coward who is hiding behind my wife's skirt.

Quote
I can see from what YEG writes that spying is nearly impossible with his very tech-savvy wife, but telling him to ask for her word, stop spying and then stick to his side of the deal when she will no such thing herself is dangerous.

Pretty much is impossible to get anything on her now. She claims she had techs from her old job come through and sweep the house for bugs. Probably a fib but she DOES have access to equipment like that. Thats who found the KL.

Quote
Now a question for You. I would like to know how you would respond and address this situation. I am bringing C home here for tomorrow and Tues. Tuesday is her birthday and I am taking her out to dinner. Quick facts: married 41 years, she is in a nursing home, and we have not lived together since last end of August. So, when I talked to her today she is cold and upset that I did not make the effort to call her earlier, or try to get her here today. (risk is if she is discovered here could damage my lease on the condo). I told her last week we are sleeping on Our bed. She doesn't like it supposidly cause I snore and I really do and realize it and have bought otc meds.

I pick her up at 8 am tomorrow morning. So YEG, I am interested in Your view, would you push it or not. I want to ask you this becasue altho you are alot younger, and you do seem like a decent guy who i would like a comment from, but also to get your focus on trying to focus on otheres as well.

As for me id try it. Do everything you can to avoid snoring (ironically the WW said that was a reason she didnt like sleeping in the same bed as me). Give the snore strips for your nose a try.

BTW Ive followed your threads for a while. Just haven't had much time lately with my world spinning off its axis.

Quote
RN, that would be dishonest and foolhardy. First off, he doesn't trust her. She is untrustworthy. And affording trust to an untrustworthy person is foolish and serves no purpose. He should tell her he DOES NOT TRUST HER and give her an opportunity to earn his trust.
Ive said that to her. Problem is she isnt willing to touch on EPs yet.

Hopefully I can get her to talk to steve. I think she will and he can sell them.

If not then im pretty much buying into a FR.

Quote
YEG, are you telling me you have not exposed this affair to the OM's COMMAND? Why is that?

I have. I havent re exposed a second time.

Quote
I expect sporadic contact even if WW is dedicated to save the marriage. The contact will become less frequent over time ann then one day there will not be anymore.

With no ability to spy I see nothing wrong about asking WW to be truthful. There is nothing to lose with asking.

The important thing is to see some progress.
I could deal with the contact if it was just that. Him constantly professing his love for her and her agreeing and sneaking around is unacceptable. Just because they didnt have enough time to have sex doesnt make it ok.

Quote
False recovery will have to be an acceptable risk.

There will be some considerable risk to it. Hopefully Steve can help me gauge and minimize it. Im kinda lost right now since my FBI Jr techniques are totally useless against the real FBI.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by YEG
[There will be some considerable risk to it. Hopefully Steve can help me gauge and minimize it. Im kinda lost right now since my FBI Jr techniques are totally useless against the real FBI.

YEG, there is a huge difference between taking appropriate risks and taking foolish risks. A reconcilation with NO PLAN for recovery is a foolish risk and an invitation to a false recovery. That is NEVER advocated by the Harleys. In fact, Steve coaches people to have their WS talk to him FIRST before reconciliation takes place to make sure the WS is willing and committed to recovery.

Your wife is NOT committed to recovery if there are not even EPs in place. That is the first STEP and that has not been taken, YEG.

If you set no standards for recovery, a cake eating WS will just live down to your standards. That is a huge mistake.

YEG, the OM needs to be exposed AGAIN if he is still in touch with your wife. Stop protecting him and start making his life a holy hell. That is how you ruin his affair. OM are weasels and cowards and they are not going to tolerate too much trouble over a cheap piece. Better to find one that is less trouble.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 02:45 AM
p.s. YEG, I may be preaching to the choir, but in MB terms, recovery means the end of the affair, affair proofing the marriage, and the CREATION of romantic love in the marriage.

You will find older posters who don't know this. When I arrived on this board, people RARELY even spoke about Marriage Builders and their idea of "recovery" was simply staying married. That is not what Marriage Buildrs considers to be recovery.

So when someone tells you that you should be glad to just be together, I would question their perspective on recovery, because you might find it differs GREATLY from what MB subscribes.

There is Plan A, Plan B and Plan RECOVERY. No in between. Dr Harley is very clear that Plan C [for compromise] is what will lead to a divorce.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 01:36 PM
Why are you no longer monitoring her? I don't care if she sweeps the car looking for devices. You should have GPS on her car. If she takes it off, then you know she is up to something. You should have a keylogger on her computer. If she takes it off, you know she is up to something. It should be a condition of allowing her to stay home. You keep accepting crumbs. No more neediness. If she isn't going to jump fully on board, then she can get out. Nothing angry or needy, just calm and stern.

YEG, whatever happens, she isn't going to commit to the marriage for SEVERAL months after NC w/ OM. You need to help her through these months and constantly VERIFY there is NC, otherwise, your situation won't improve. I guarantee you that she kept waffling for so long because she was in contact. She needs at least 2-3 months without any contact whatsoever for her to be able to commit. You don't need the commitment to the marriage right now as much as you need to verify NC. If you keep up the NC, the commitment will come.

You need to continue to monitor your WW. Not doing so is just asking for contact to continue. I don't care what your WW says. If she doesn't like it, she can go move back in with her parents and get nothing from you. YOU need to be the one in charge. I thought you were driving this train?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
Why are you no longer monitoring her? I don't care if she sweeps the car looking for devices. You should have GPS on her car. If she takes it off, then you know she is up to something. You should have a keylogger on her computer. If she takes it off, you know she is up to something. It should be a condition of allowing her to stay home. You keep accepting crumbs. No more neediness. If she isn't going to jump fully on board, then she can get out. Nothing angry or needy, just calm and stern.

YEG, whatever happens, she isn't going to commit to the marriage for SEVERAL months after NC w/ OM. You need to help her through these months and constantly VERIFY there is NC, otherwise, your situation won't improve. I guarantee you that she kept waffling for so long because she was in contact. She needs at least 2-3 months without any contact whatsoever for her to be able to commit. You don't need the commitment to the marriage right now as much as you need to verify NC. If you keep up the NC, the commitment will come.

You need to continue to monitor your WW. Not doing so is just asking for contact to continue. I don't care what your WW says. If she doesn't like it, she can go move back in with her parents and get nothing from you. YOU need to be the one in charge. I thought you were driving this train?

Yes!!!!
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by jmwc95
Why are you no longer monitoring her? I don't care if she sweeps the car looking for devices. You should have GPS on her car. If she takes it off, then you know she is up to something. You should have a keylogger on her computer. If she takes it off, you know she is up to something. It should be a condition of allowing her to stay home. You keep accepting crumbs. No more neediness. If she isn't going to jump fully on board, then she can get out. Nothing angry or needy, just calm and stern.

YEG, whatever happens, she isn't going to commit to the marriage for SEVERAL months after NC w/ OM. You need to help her through these months and constantly VERIFY there is NC, otherwise, your situation won't improve. I guarantee you that she kept waffling for so long because she was in contact. She needs at least 2-3 months without any contact whatsoever for her to be able to commit. You don't need the commitment to the marriage right now as much as you need to verify NC. If you keep up the NC, the commitment will come.

You need to continue to monitor your WW. Not doing so is just asking for contact to continue. I don't care what your WW says. If she doesn't like it, she can go move back in with her parents and get nothing from you. YOU need to be the one in charge. I thought you were driving this train?

Yes!!!!

I agree!
Great post!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 02:48 PM
YEG, get a plan in place FIRST. That has to come FIRST. You dont' reconcile and hope for a future plan. HOPE IS NOT A PLAN. That is not how this is done.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
: Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery.

In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 02:53 PM
YEG, I emphasize again that the definition of recovery in MARRIAGE BUILDERS TERMS is much, much more than just living together. It means the restoration of romantic love in an AFFAIR PROOFED marriage. Recovery will not happen by magic just by living together and hoping for the best.

PLEASE contact Steve Harley and let him help you negotiate the recovery of your marriage. And if she is not on board, then he can help you get back into plan B.

Having no plan like this is an invitation to a false recovery for no good reason.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 03:30 PM
Quote
YEG, there is a huge difference between taking appropriate risks and taking foolish risks. A reconcilation with NO PLAN for recovery is a foolish risk and an invitation to a false recovery. That is NEVER advocated by the Harleys. In fact, Steve coaches people to have their WS talk to him FIRST before reconciliation takes place to make sure the WS is willing and committed to recovery.

Your wife is NOT committed to recovery if there are not even EPs in place. That is the first STEP and that has not been taken, YEG.

I know what I got now isnt a recovery. I dont know what it is. I dont know if im in plan A still and she is just meeting some of my needs or what.

Quote
p.s. YEG, I may be preaching to the choir, but in MB terms, recovery means the end of the affair, affair proofing the marriage, and the CREATION of romantic love in the marriage.

I know it as injury treatment and recovery since thats the terms steve used to me but i KNOW you cant do recovery unless the underlying wound is treated first.

Quote
There is Plan A, Plan B and Plan RECOVERY. No in between. Dr Harley is very clear that Plan C [for compromise] is what will lead to a divorce.
Plan Craziness and confusion isnt what I want.

Quote
You need to continue to monitor your WW. Not doing so is just asking for contact to continue. I don't care what your WW says. If she doesn't like it, she can go move back in with her parents and get nothing from you. YOU need to be the one in charge. I thought you were driving this train?
Easier said than done. My WW is finally giving me attention and meeting my needs. Kicking her out once im making some progress just isnt that palatable.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 03:34 PM
Will you call Steve and get his help in getting her engaged in a PLAN?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 03:51 PM
Alright lets talk about plans then.

Here is where I am.

WW is sleeping in the same bed as me. No more going to her parents.
She is asking questions about cruises and things I had shown interest in that have a longer term than a day or so away.
She is asking questions about ending the divorce process.
She is showing me affection. She is caring for me when I get upset.
While she is VERY against me monitoring her she is trying to be open to me. She will tell me when she is on the computer and what she is doing.

Thats the good list.

bad list.
Showing pushback on EPs. She thinks its ridiculous for me to monitor her with GPS and KL.
Still very concerned about status of M long term. She is basically concerned about 3 or 4 months down the road everything falling apart.
Still not wearing her wedding band. Shows to me she is still unsure about the M.
No way to verify NC.

Things I believe but have no idea
She wants to save the M but is concerned with the damage we have done is too great.
Worried that ina few months we will be right back where we started. If thats going to happen why even try.
Concerned that given time I will fall back into old habits.
Doesnt want to hurt the OM. Doesnt want to cut him loose till she has completely decided. Basically wants him as a fall back guy.

The options I see
Return yet again to a Plan A behavior. Its basically what im doing now anyways. I met her needs with no expectation of having mine met. I think she likes what she is seeng she is just unsure if I can keep it up.

Plan B
Cut her off till she consents to all EPs.


Here is what im going to do.

Plan A.
Im going to stay in the house with her. Im also going to make an appointment with Steve. If she will go then she goes. If not I will get his guidance on what to do now.

Im also trying to get her to sign a reconciliation agreement. Thats for 2 reasons. It removes artificial timelines of a divorce from over our heads and it protects me. Im living in the same house as her again. My case is significantly weakened by that if she DID want to challenge the adultery claims.

As far as monitoring ill continue to snoop as best I can. No way I can get a KL on her computer. I still have the cell phones account i can monitor. She is also almost out of money so she is dependent on me for that too.

Going to ask for her bank access as well. Can monitor for A phones that way too.

I think the key thing is getting her to talk to steve. He can gauge her level of commitment and give me some idea on what to work on.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 03:54 PM
Quote
Will you call Steve and get his help in getting her engaged in a PLAN?

Absolutely. Im trying to push her that way. She is a slow mover by nature. She doesnt want to do anything quickly. She likes to mull decisions over.

If I try to push things on her too quickly she will shutdown. What Ill do is schedule and appointment and then tell her I have it scheduled. See if I can get her to take advantage of it. It will likely be a few weeks out since hes pretty booked atm anyways.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 03:58 PM
Quote
My WW is finally giving me attention and meeting my needs. Kicking her out once im making some progress just isnt that palatable.


NEWS FLASH!!!

That is NOT progress.

She can be meeting every need you have...and still be schlepping over to the OM and meeting his too.

Don't confuse CAKE EATING with progress...wrong wrong wrong..

committed
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
Quote
Will you call Steve and get his help in getting her engaged in a PLAN?

Absolutely. Im trying to push her that way. She is a slow mover by nature. She doesnt want to do anything quickly. She likes to mull decisions over.

YEG, I wouldn't even bring it up. Just get an appointment for yourself and let Steve guide you out of this.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Quote
My WW is finally giving me attention and meeting my needs. Kicking her out once im making some progress just isnt that palatable.


NEWS FLASH!!!

That is NOT progress.

She can be meeting every need you have...and still be schlepping over to the OM and meeting his too.

Don't confuse CAKE EATING with progress...wrong wrong wrong..

committed

Agree, this is not progress. Just the fact that she is still hiding things from you reflects someone who is not interested in recovery but in protecting her affair.

I don't see any progress here at all.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 04:03 PM
Yeg, you were in Plan B before, weren't you?
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 04:23 PM
Quote
NEWS FLASH!!!

That is NOT progress.

She can be meeting every need you have...and still be schlepping over to the OM and meeting his too.

Don't confuse CAKE EATING with progress...wrong wrong wrong..

YEG:

It seems to me that some folks expect instant conversion to hermetic NC and the end of withdrawal in one fraction of a second. With few exceptions I believe this is an unrealistic expectation. She will reach hermetic NC at some point down the road.

Her withdrawal will make her break NC and this will make he withdrawal longer. Do not have such high expectations or you will feel miserable again.

The forum member are correct and this is not recovery. However, this is a positive move towards recovery (when she is no longer in withdrawal and is in hermetic NC).

Lets pretend she is faking everything with you. She may very well be faking, but in the end love is a verb and not a feeling.

WW is not comatose anymore, she seems to be waking up. Keep up the good work. Do not whine or be needy. be cool and show no anger.


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
[It seems to me that some folks expect instant conversion to hermetic NC and the end of withdrawal in one fraction of a second. With few exceptions I believe this is an unrealistic expectation. She will reach hermetic NC at some point down the road.

Oh no, Stan, it is not an unrealistic expectation AT ALL to have a plan of recovery in PLACE, it is how this program works. He needs to stick to this program as subscribed and not settle for a false recovery.

I don't know why you would encourage him to believe that no plan of recovery will lead to recovery. If he settles for that, he might be facing years of on again, off again contact as you have. Do you want him to suffer the same fate? I don't.
Posted By: AheadOfTheCurve Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 04:35 PM
YEG, you have to stand firm. She must agree to NC, and write the letter. She needs to agree to KL and GPS so that YOU can verify NC. Anything else is insufficient.

As for my understanding of the adultery issues during a divorce, if you have sex with a WS, you've written off using adultery as a weapon unless they commit to the physical act again with their AP.

You might want to double-check on this, but that's what messed up Evander Holyfield's divorce from his WW about ten or so years ago. She talked him into the sack, then took his cash in the divorce settlement.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 04:46 PM
Stan-ley,

In all honesty this does NOT indicate a postive move toward recovery.

NOTHING indicates a positive move toward recovery more than a PLAN that is in place and one that SHE is doing.

committed
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Stan-ley,

In all honesty this does NOT indicate a postive move toward recovery.

NOTHING indicates a positive move toward recovery more than a PLAN that is in place and one that SHE is doing.

committed

I agree and disagree at the same time.

When I was a BH my view to WW was simple: "You are in the marriage or else I call OM so he can come and pick you up". I had no desire to work with a non-motivated WW.

I am no fan of Plan A when the WW is totally disinterested. In this instance it is all about Plan B.

This WW seems to respond to PLan B. YEG was in plan B for two minutes and WW showed signs of life.

I am not there with YEG and WW, but it is safe to assume she is in withdrawal and like all addicts will try to break NC to medicate herself.

I think YEG needs to ride this storm and wait for withdrawal to subside. Maybe you have an MB name for this.



Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
[
I think YEG needs to ride this storm and wait for withdrawal to subside. Maybe you have an MB name for this.

Yes, breaking Plan B before the WS has agreed to meet your conditions is called a FALSE RECOVERY. Almost every WS tries to get the BS to break Plan B when they start missing the BS. BUT, that doesn't mean they are ready to meet the conditions outlined in the Plan B letter. It just means they are testing the BS to see if he is SERIOUS.

YEG is not serious. And she knows this. He will settle for the lowest common denominator. Therefore, SHE will not be serious about meeting his conditions for recovery. She knows it is a joke.

If the BS allows them back in without meeting the Plan B conditions then the WS is LESS LIKELY to EVER meet those conditions because he is simply teaching her that he has NO CONDITIONS and she can do whatever she pleases.

This is what Dr Harley and Steve WARN Plan Bers about. But this advice has been ignored here and this is encouraged by some posters who have confused recovery with reconciliation. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Yeg, I will just mention again that a false recovery is worse than the initial D-Day. This is why it is so important to have a PLAN before you quit Plan B. I realize its more fun to tell you what you want to hear, but I fear for your future using this non strategy strategy.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 06:29 PM
YEG, this is why I think it is important to question those who would tell you this is going to lead to recovery. Their idea of "recovery" is probably NOT MB's idea of recovery.

To some, just staying married in a crippled marriage is "recovery." And that is where you are headed too if you allow your WS back with no plan of recovery.

Breaking Plan B because a WS is uncomfortable in Plan B is a huge mistake. Discomfort is a sign it is working.

REmoving the discomfort removes her motivation for change and disarms you of any leverage you might have had. In other words, Plan B was working so you stopped it.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 07:21 PM
Quote
This WW seems to respond to PLan B. YEG was in plan B for two minutes and WW showed signs of life.


Lorda Mercy...she didn't show signs of LIFE.

The majority...VAST majority of waywards react this way when they are IGNORED by their betrayed spouse.

It means that the WS is no longer driving the train and it doesn't sit well with them.

Your wayward wife returned to the marriage when you "threatened" to expose. I believe she told you that she would commit suicide if you did...so she in essence set the plan for recovery (a term I use loosely in your situation).

It is the wayward plan of "I will return home if you do not tell anyone". Somehow, I don't think that this is a strong plan.

committed
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 11:08 PM
There is a reason why there must be transparency and complete access and keyloggers and VAR, and GPS so you can verify NC.

What does yeg do?

Tells WW about all of his means of verifcation and removes them.

WW comes back home without NC letter and agreement to be transparent.

Why?

So she can claim you took her back and she has better legal standing in court in front of a judge. So she can get you to stop the divorce. So she can keep stringing you along and resume doing her OM when things settle down.

Answer: any one, any combination, or all of the above.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 11:21 PM
Talk to Steve and see what he advises. You have had GREAT dealings with him in the past. I KNOW he can help guide you through this.
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 11:39 PM
"They feel we have already confused DD5 enough."

Hi YEG,

Yep, I agree YEG and that would be my concern as well. Think of what has happened over the past two months. You moved out and then back in. Then your wife starts leaving home to stay with her parents at night. Then she leaves and is now back home. Pretty turbulent for a 5-yr-old.

I am not a Chicago Cubs fan, but I watch some of their games just due to them being on. It is disheartening tho even as a non-fan just to see their batters continue to flail away at the first pitch despite the coaches advice to be patient and pick their pitches. Lots of strikeouts, groundouts, leading to lost opportunities and a losing record. Just simply poor fundamentals and igoring advice.

YEG you are a good decent person. What I see tho is you being firm and committed up to execution. Then, when you get to the plate (as in your current Plan A and your just recently concluded Plan B) you flail away at her first pitch and, of course, fail to execute. Then you beat yourself up and become vulnerable to whatever she wants to throw at you to keep you on the defensive. I looked at one of your earlier posts and now I believe you broke your Plan B when your daughter became upset after you wife left and expressed that maybe 'if mom doesn't love you maybe she doesn't love me'. Apparrently you panicked, called your W, and you opened the door for her to return unscathed. I am just concerned YEG that you and your wife do not have much more margin for error in the in and out again, back and forth again stuff before the two of you really adversely unsettle and affect your DD. I say this because you are proceding now with a sort of 'mixed bag' plan that is neither based on MB nor at the advice of your coaches here. I just feel you are going to continue to flail away just like the Cubs, and that is going to cause more uncertainty, more partings and returns, and more stress for your DD.

I will say that of the BH's that I have seen here I felt that you were one of the people most likely most likely to save his marriage. Well, a lot of Cubs fans this season also felt that hey would get to the WS this year. Not.

So, for the sake of yourself, your M, your W, and esp. your DD please pay attention to your coaches here. Don't continue to flail away. The most important thing right now for you to committ to as they are advising you is to insist on no contact and complete transparency as a condition for staying to try to save your marriage.

Continued prayers and thoughts,

Tom
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/05/10 11:46 PM
Quote
Your wayward wife returned to the marriage when you "threatened" to expose. I believe she told you that she would commit suicide if you did...so she in essence set the plan for recovery (a term I use loosely in your situation).

I never made such threat. I wanted to avoid exposure as much as WW did. I would have never taken my wife back if I had to make a threat.

My only threat was: "There is the door------get out!" I even offered a divorce without using adultery as the cause.

Threadjack over

However, I now understand that to enter into intant hermetic NC is difficult even for the most remorseful dedicated WW.

How do deal with that?



Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 01:41 AM
Alright here is the update.

First of all the WW defiantly hasnt recommitted to the M yet. So im definatly not in recovery.

So thats out.

I thought it over all day WTF to do. So I had a short conversation with her. Here is what i found out. On friday the (butter) soft deadline I gave her for end of plan A she had pretty much decided to leave the house and force me into plan B. Fine thats what I expected. Alot of that was because she percieved me as being dishonest and manipulative by calling her OM after I said I wouldnt. Yes that retarded logic but she is wayward.

After we both came clean (or maybe it was she didnt have the guts to leave) she had decided she really wasnt sure on what she wanted. She is more torn than ever. She KNOWS im willing to do whatever possible to save the M.

Now she is asking for more time. She wants me to find out exactly when the papers have to be served. I told her never since id dismiss the whole damn divorce. She said no because she didnt want to decide a week later then leave and people accuse her of being a gold digger.

So tomorrow im going to find the exact date. My intentions are to stay in Plan A till that day comes then she will give me a decision. Is it super tough guy? Nope. But throwing her [censored] in the street over a few weeks seems premature. Especially if I can PA her a few more weeks.

I believe the extra time WILL give her more reason to stay. I believe that the extra time will show her im willing to meet her needs consistently over the long term. It will show her im willing to help out with DD5 even more. Also i think that she may feel more obligated to stay after DD5 gets more and more use to us staying together. She sees the family in action.

Everyone always says PB is for the BS. Only reason I was even going to PB was because the living arrangements were intolerable to me. Now those are gone. I have her besides me at night. I feel i can do a better Plan A from the same house as her. I can snoop easier. The KL is gone but I dont think will be using the computer anyways since she is worried that I may install another one. All I can do about A phones is the same thing I always did. Snoop for it.

So right or wrong Im gong to stay again in PA until she either decides to leave and forces PB, until PA is completely intolerable or Steve says to move onto PB.

Quote
YEG, I wouldn't even bring it up. Just get an appointment for yourself and let Steve guide you out of this.

I can tell you steve has been pushing to have WW call him since day 1. If she wants to call ill let her call. I will also make a independent appointment for myself as well though.

Grr wish I had never filed for the stupid D now. I let the dumb [censored] lawyer kinda push me into it. Really wish i had waited a few days to get my head around it.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 02:09 AM
Quote
Grr wish I had never filed for the stupid D now. I let the dumb [censored] lawyer kinda push me into it. Really wish i had waited a few days to get my head around it.

YEG:

I have given your WW the benefit of the doubt after coming back to you for a Plan B that lasted two minutes.

I WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She is playing you and she must think you are very easy to fool. She is back to her OLD self. She is back to the same WW that made you write the Plan B letter.

Plan A does not work with your WW.

The only thing that works is Plan B and a divorce.

Plan A is useless. Seen the lawyer to initiate the D was and is your only hope to get WW back. You must put her out in the street and go NC.

As I said I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and thought that you could tolerate her withdrawal. However, this is not withdrawal. She is acting in a cunning manner to get the best deal once she decides to leave you for OM.

WW did a number on you. I cannot believe you have posted the above. You are deep in BH fog. Yes, there is such a thing as BS fog.

Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 02:55 AM
Quote
First of all the WW defiantly hasnt recommitted to the M yet.

DEFIANT????????????????

YEG:

You consistently choose the position of weakness. Every forum member have told you that you are acting weak and needy yet you keep acting that way.

Posted By: pianogal01 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 03:58 AM
YEG,

You are not helping your situation at all. I'm afraid that if you continue on this path, you will lose ANY chance for recovery at all because you continue to enable her indecisive behavior. Your wife will not decide anything because she doesn't have to. She will continue the same patterns because you allow her to do so.

Originally Posted by YEG
I believe the extra time WILL give her more reason to stay.

You are partially right...Giving her more time, will give her more reason to STAY ON THE FENCE and play you for a fool, and hurt your daughter even more in the long run.

It's obvious here that you are an intelligent guy. It's obvious that you love your wife, but sometimes the greatest act of love is letting go. And you need to let her go if you want ANY chance of recovery.

You find living conditions tolerable because your WW is beside you at night? She's only there in body...When you kiss her, she is thinking of the OM. When she lays beside you, she's wishing she were laying beside the OM and sometimes the only way she can stand it is if she pretends it is him beside her, and not you. Is that REALLY tolerable?????

Do you want her to stay out of guilt? No, you want her to stay because she loves you...she chooses you...and she has stated that she is unable to do that right now. You have to make the choice for her, for now, because she can't. Set your boundaries. You have to refuse to live with a woman who is not devoted solely to you and your M. She's addicted, YEG. I know this is harsh, but her mind is NOT with you. It's with him, and those thoughts will continue if you don't change the path she's on.

How do I know this? Because I lived it every day for 6 months. And allowing this behavior out of her is NOT going to change her. The only way you are going to change it is to stop being weak and move to Plan B which says you will not tolerate this ANYMORE. PERIOD.

When my husband and I finally separated (and yes, I even filed for D), I was able to really start seeing the OM for who he really was...I was able to see that my H was going to move on and be FINE without me. And I suddenly realized that I might not be fine without him. But it was only after we separated that I saw that. As long as he tolerated my behavior, I could have kept going between both H and OM indefinitely. Your wife will too if you keep tolerating it.

Tough Love, YEG. Stop enabling her and start enabling yourself.

PG01



Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:04 AM
YEG, pianogirl is right. You have removed any and all motivation for your wife to work on this marriage. You have become the enabler of 2 adulterers. You have forfeited any and all leverage you had by taking her back unconditionally. By doing so, you are giving her expectations of entitlement and enabling her cakeeating.

This is a disaster and you are headed for a crash. Essentially you have handed the wheel to a drunk driver. Unfortunately, your little boy is in the back seat and you won't lift a finger to stop this car crash.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:17 AM
Quote
You have become the enabler of 2 adulterers.

YEG:

Melody is correct.

I am also worried about her defiant posture.
Once she makes you take divorce and Plan B off the table she will defiantly continue the affair.

She may even force you to accept an open marriage while she thinks about her indecision.
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:00 AM
Yeg, I really don't understand. If you were here to get guidance so that you can recover your marriage and you're getting it from people that have been in your position and know what to do but yet you won't follow it.

Instead of posting stuff like, "I know I'm a loser" and blah blah blah...stand up for yourself! Be a man, and take charge. No woman wants a man she knows she can push around and won't stand up for himself.

You're getting all comfortable and it's nice with her sleeping next to you. Yet, she's very likely to just walk out that door and you're twice as broken up than before.


Iļæ½d follow the advice of those on here and make your WWļæ½s head spin. Iļæ½d sit down with what it would take to stay in the house and until she is ready to commit to the marriage, she doesnļæ½t come back.

I canļæ½t believe you let her know you found out about the affair phone. I would have taken that damn thing to her OMs commanding officer. I wouldnļæ½t have said anything to her at all.

Stop being so happy to clutch at whatever she wants to give you at the moment. If you donļæ½t, there wonļæ½t be anything to clutch to. Yeg, stand up for yourself. She wonļæ½t respect you until you do. You have no surveillance on her now. Just because you know where sheļæ½s sleeping doesnļæ½t mean you know what sheļæ½s doing the other times. You think she wonļæ½t be doing this and you think she wonļæ½t be doing thatļæ½you thought she wasnļæ½t having an affair at one point.

I know youļæ½re not me. But, man, Iļæ½d be pissed off enough now to stand up for myself. Hereļæ½s the unfortunate part though. Eventually everyone gets tired of advising you and you not following it and then the advice stops. Good luck to you.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
No woman wants a man she knows she can push around and won't stand up for himself.


This is absolutely correct!!

My husband is just like you, nice guy, caring, loving, we call that "nice guy syndrome"

I told him, that he needs to be more assertive, because I felt like I was the man in the relationship, and I didn't like it!

I also told him, that I like it when he puts his foot down and told me "no, this is what it's going to be like for now on. When you come home." It was sexy! He was taking charge, and I was very attracted to it!

If he didn't do that, then we would be in the same situation you are in now, and to me...THAT IS NOT A RECOVERY!

Please YEG! We know you are smart guy, but are you really betting your Marriage because you "think" her parents wont approve now that she is finally "trying" to fix the marriage. (In there eyes anyway)

Are you really betting your marriage to "protect" your daughter? All I can see is that you are giving your daughter false hope to any recovery at all! It's going to happen YEG, one way or another she will mess up AGAIN, and that will hurt your daughter more!

So rip that band-aid right OFF as quickly as you can, and tell her to leave if she is not ready for a recovery!
Posted By: markos Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 02:57 PM
Yeg,

I think you're really making a big mistake.

You're compromising like crazy to let your wife back into your presence, and this is allowing her to not make the changes that need to happen to make your marriage wonderful so that it will be possible to heal from the adultery.

It sounds to me like you are so scared to death of the possibility of being alone that you will take her back almost no matter what.

I wish you felt that staying in a lousy marriage to a woman who had an affair is far scarier. I wish that scared the * out of you and that you wanted to avoid that at all costs.

Because then I think you'd have the strength to draw a line and say "Wife, if you don't want to live up to this bar, I don't want you!"

And then you'd skip a lot of heartache, and you'd either find out how wonderful things can be or find out you're better off without someone who simply doesn't want to reform.

Marriage Builders is not about sticking with a cheater no matter what.

Have you ever read the story of what Pepperband told her husband on D-Day?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=158318&Number=2293828#Post2293828

Look at the way she responded every time he said he didn't want to do what she said she needed done. Look at that resolve.

I wish everybody had that.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
No woman wants a man she knows she can push around and won't stand up for himself.


This is absolutely correct!!

My husband is just like you, nice guy, caring, loving, we call that "nice guy syndrome"
I too, was the "nice guy." I let The Leopard walk all over me during our marriage. I avoided arguments, preferring to keep the peace instead of risking war.

Then she firebombed the marriage, revealing her affair and saying she wanted out.

She immediately reminded me that she had no job, no money and no place to go. But she wanted to continue with OM, since our relationship was "over" and "hadn't been good for years" (Ha!).

I stupidly agreed to let her stay in the house for a month.

But I also went to a lawyer and drew up the papers. She was required to move out. I went into Plan B.

Tomorrow will mark the one month anniversary of our divorce.

I drew the line in the sand. Thanks to the folks here at Marriage Builders, I was able to rein in my "nice guy" and grow a pair.

She was (and is) a wayward spouse. I have been told that, to no one's surprise (but hers, perhaps), the affair is over.

So now she's out of the nice house I bought for her, she's without the Jeep I bought her (folks here will tell you of the new license plate I put on it) and she's without the supportive "nice guy" spouse she had. She now has to find someone else to provide for her, as she's ruined her credit, her career and her reputation.

Today, I have no problem being a "nice guy" again. I go to church, do community service, and am moving forward with my life.

Who says "nice guys don't win?"
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
I drew the line in the sand. Thanks to the folks here at Marriage Builders, I was able to rein in my "nice guy" and grow a pair.

This is what we all want you to do!
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 03:34 PM
Quote
the (butter) soft deadline


puh-leeeeeze....

This is a term that you continue to use. This literally means that YOU are "soft".

You can tell yourself that you are setting a boundary...that you won't accept it any longer after this "soft" deadling...but that means that you are NOT firm.

This is the plan...YOU lay it out...

No Contact, with a letter to be sent

Transparency in all activities

Accountability

Counseling with the Harleys

Those are just the starters for recovery.

STOP STOP STOP moving the boundary. Set it in stone...MAN UP.

committed

Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 03:45 PM
I don't think YEG will post again because he is keeping WW at home and calling the lawyer to call off the divorce.

I suggest we pray for a good outcome!!!!!!

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 03:55 PM
Just a heads up.

Im not ignoring yall today. Im at work and the web filter is kicking in on the last 2 pages of my thread. So I cant see any of the replies since last night.

I appreciate everyones interest in my predicament. Im not a coward avoiding the thread.

While im here ill tell you the latest. The WW asked me to draft an agreement waiving her rights to alimony yesterday. She also wants me to agree to her having a lower income for the calculation of child support. So her end being calculated at a rate of 25k instead of 50k since getting a job of that level want me very possible anymore for her.

Im sure the 2x4 are going to come out for this too.

Im thinking about dropping my divorce complaint against her. This would allow her to have as much time as she needs to mull things over. I havent talked to her about this though.

I also interpret what to do different than most. I dont feel that not going to plan b was a mistake. IMO I am responding to new information I was provided. I dont see how the WW wanting to spend more time with me and being honest with me is a bad thing. Ive seen her change over the past 2 months. She had a foot out the door before. Now she is sharing my bed again and curling up with me on the couch while watching movies.

I've made an appointment with steve for next week. Ill see how that works out.

Since there is no danger of missing a filing date Im also going to be able to not have relationship talks. So ill give the 180 a try again.

Anyways ill look at the replies ASAP tonite when I get home.

Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:03 PM
Quote
She also wants me to agree to her having a lower income for the calculation of child support. So her end being calculated at a rate of 25k instead of 50k since getting a job of that level want me very possible anymore for her.


I can imagine that you are seriously considering this faint

Quote
Im thinking about dropping my divorce complaint against her. This would allow her to have as much time as she needs to mull things over.


As much time as she needs?? shocked

As much time as she needs?? dontknow

That's a cake eater's dream come true.

Here's an idea....move the OM in with ya'll and save her the inconvenience of leaving the house to do him. MrRollieEyes

NOTHING would surprise me with you right now...NOTHING...

committed banghead

EDIT: Please change the ttle of the thread to a more accurate one, so that readers/posters can get the right impression of what is happening. Might I suggest..
Turning the wheel over to my WW so she can continue to drive it in the ditch

Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:04 PM
Quote
The WW asked me to draft an agreement waiving her rights to alimony yesterday. She also wants me to agree to her having a lower income for the calculation of child support.

Did I miss something? This means divorce is in her mind. She has consulted with a lawyer shocked.

In the mean time you want to drop the divorce. banghead

She is sleeping with you. Let me be blunt: Any SF?
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:16 PM
OK i can read page 64 now. I still cant read 63 though.

Quote
I don't think YEG will post again because he is keeping WW at home and calling the lawyer to call off the divorce.

I suggest we pray for a good outcome!!!!!!

Naa im not a baby about it. Ill show my face around here.

The post after post of people thinking im a retard are pretty discouraging though.

Quote
It sounds to me like you are so scared to death of the possibility of being alone that you will take her back almost no matter what.

I wish you felt that staying in a lousy marriage to a woman who had an affair is far scarier. I wish that scared the * out of you and that you wanted to avoid that at all costs.

Because then I think you'd have the strength to draw a line and say "Wife, if you don't want to live up to this bar, I don't want you!"

And then you'd skip a lot of heartache, and you'd either find out how wonderful things can be or find out you're better off without someone who simply doesn't want to reform.
No im not scared of D. Im scared I will get divorced and feel I didnt do everything to save my M. i probably wont end up in a perfect MB M. Alot of people dont. I think it can still be better than it was before. My WW was a flawed woman when i M her. I knew she had secrecy issues and a past when I put the ring on her finger.

If I truelly wanted to take the easy path I would have just kicked her aside from the start. I could have done it no problem. She wouldnt have fought me on it.

Quote
Have you ever read the story of what Pepperband told her husband on D-Day?
Ill read it later. promise.

Quote
This is a term that you continue to use. This literally means that YOU are "soft".

What good does it do to set a rock hard deadline and throw her and my child out of the house? I wont be able to keep DD5. No court will allow that since I work and she has been watching her for 2 months now full time. Thats what the lawyer told me.

I dont see how locking her out one day for the shock and awe of it when plan A is making her questions her past choices is a good thing. I can handle more plan a so why not continue it?

Ill try opera next. Mozilla got me page 64. maybe opera can get me 63
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
The WW asked me to draft an agreement waiving her rights to alimony yesterday. She also wants me to agree to her having a lower income for the calculation of child support. So her end being calculated at a rate of 25k instead of 50k since getting a job of that level want me very possible anymore for her.

Im thinking about dropping my divorce complaint against her. This would allow her to have as much time as she needs to mull things over. I havent talked to her about this though.

Let me get this right, she is threatening you with divorce. She wants to waive allimony and pay less child support so she can basically keep the money she gets, and keep you out of her life when she wants. While you are stuck to do her bidding.

Originally Posted by YEG
I also interpret what to do different than most. I dont feel that not going to plan b was a mistake. IMO I am responding to new information I was provided. I dont see how the WW wanting to spend more time with me and being honest with me is a bad thing. Ive seen her change over the past 2 months. She had a foot out the door before. Now she is sharing my bed again and curling up with me on the couch while watching movies.

YEG there was no Plan B thats why you don't regret it, and that new information is gaslighting! She gave you a bunch of bull so she can continue to cake-eat and threaten you with divorce if she doesn't get what she wants. This woman has more power over you, and you say thats its fine.

Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Here's an idea....move the OM in with ya'll and save her the inconvenience of leaving the house to do him. MrRollieEyes

^ I totally agree, you are fooling yourself, you are not fixing anything, your not protecting yourself, you are not looking out for your children. This sucks!
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
No im not scared of D. Im scared I will get divorced and feel I didnt do everything to save my M. i probably wont end up in a perfect MB M. Alot of people dont. I think it can still be better than it was before. My WW was a flawed woman when i M her. I knew she had secrecy issues and a past when I put the ring on her finger.

No MB M is perfect, but there is a difference between the people who follow the concepts and advice here and those who don't. Those many people who fail do not, and those who succeed, even in divorce, do apply these techniques to their life.

Originally Posted by YEG
If I truelly wanted to take the easy path I would have just kicked her aside from the start. I could have done it no problem. She wouldnt have fought me on it.

This path you have choosen seems pretty low resistance also. Soft deadlines, soft boundaries....soft, soft, soft....marriage.

Originally Posted by YEG
What good does it do to set a rock hard deadline and throw her and my child out of the house? I wont be able to keep DD5. No court will allow that since I work and she has been watching her for 2 months now full time. Thats what the lawyer told me.

I dont see how locking her out one day for the shock and awe of it when plan A is making her questions her past choices is a good thing. I can handle more plan a so why not continue it?

Plan ahead to fight for your kid, the kid does not have to go with her, there are other options even if your lawer will not admit it.

This is a weird situation you have put yourself in, and you did it all on your choice.
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 04:59 PM
This whole thing is making my head spin. When she tells you that she wants more time to think it over, it's so she can have more time to go hang out with OM, this is essentially an open marriage now and you are allowing it.

You tell your lawyer you want full custody. You tell him you want him to fight for that or you'll get another lawyer. Then you tell your WW that you are filing for full custody and she will pay you child support and until she is ready to fully commit to the marriage, you want her out and she can go live with OM.

Stop being nice and stand up to her. Even the women are telling you this. I'm not just spouting off some alpha male junk...she doesn't respect you because you're way too nice and she feels like she can fun all over you. Being nice is nice but too nice is asking for trouble.

And 2 months is a drop in teh bucket. There's no way I'd agree to alimony and dropping her CS calculation to 25K...I'd go for full custody and tell her you'll run yourself into bankruptcy fighting this.

There's no way I'd let some wayward spouse tell me how it's going to be. You need to become a shark.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:14 PM
I don't understand this YEG. Why are you discussing lowering HER child support number to 25K when you also talk about how you'll never get custody. If you don't get custody, you'll be the one paying child support, not her.

I'm afraid she is leading you by the nose straight to her dream divorce. She's setting you up my friend. I'm sorry you can't see it. It seems you so badly want to believe her that you've put on blinders to what's really happening here.

Too bad you can't get an emergency session with Steve. I think you really need it. Oh, and when you do talk to him, please don't sugarcoat it... give him ALL the info.

Still prayin' for you.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:21 PM
Quote
I don't understand this YEG. Why are you discussing lowering HER child support number to 25K when you also talk about how you'll never get custody. If you don't get custody, you'll be the one paying child support, not her.


I think its about the calculations...

When they use that "method" in CS....the amount is based on how much each party earns. She wants her earning amount lowered so that her contribution is lowered...thereby causing YEG to pay MORE in child support to HER.

That way...if there is large CS...she gets off easy because she doesn't have to report that to the IRS like she would have to Spousal Support. YEG cannot claim CS as a deduction but he would get to claim a deduction for Spousal Support. She has found her a way to come out a winner...and YEG a loser.

committed
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:21 PM
I think WW gave YEG some SF. He is very foggy!
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:23 PM
She has sought legal advice..and it is coming across as diabolical to me.

She is lining up her ducks.

Watch what you sign YEG...you might be signing over the farm.

committed
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:30 PM
Yeg, really man, when you see her tonight, I'd have that list ready of what it will take for plan B/D not to happen. The UA time, no contact, NC letter written, etc.

You're going to end up paying big time if she has her income lowered, so much so that it won't matter if you're paying alimony or not. It's not like you're being a jerk. You've been accomodating; she is the one trying to run off to a fantasy life.

You're not me, but here's how I would do this.
Contact your lawyer and let him/her know you want full custody. If they say "no way" find another lawyer.

You tell your WW that you are not taking back the divorce papers. That you have decided taht you are going for full custody and that in any case, her income will not be lowered. I would also tell her that I would be willing to bankrupt myself completely fighting this.

Ridiculous. Love her you do and she's taking advantage of that. You should be mad enough now that you don't want to play nice.
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:43 PM
Quote
She is sleeping with you. Let me be blunt: Any SF?

No i havent had SF with her. I havent had near SF.

Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:44 PM
Quote
There's no way I'd agree to alimony and dropping her CS calculation to 25K

No she is WAIVING alimony. Saying that she will bar herself.

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:48 PM
Quote
No she is WAIVING alimony. Saying that she will bar herself.

How big of her. NOT. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that she would have to claim alimony as income on her tax return. Child support doesn't have to be claimed.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:49 PM
redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag

Is all I have to say...sorry YEG, but atleast we can say we tried.

GOOD LUCK with the rest of you life...just remember...

WE TOLD YOU SO!!
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
No she is WAIVING alimony. Saying that she will bar herself.

How big of her. NOT. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that she would have to claim alimony as income on her tax return. Child support doesn't have to be claimed.


CORRECT!!!

That's why she wants her earnings (and earning potential) cut in half. She wants to have MORE child support since she doesn't have to claim it.

committed
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 05:56 PM
Does anyone else feel like they need to throw up??? I feel sick to my stomach that YEG does not see this....and I'm really sad, because I thought YEG was smarter then this...sigh...

PLEASE YEG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:11 PM
I just don't understand....

You came on here to help your marriage right?

And yet the plan you are in is heading to a big fat DIVORCE!!

If you where going this path why didn't you just sign the papers and get it over with?

Instead of staying in it this long??

I'm confused.

Help me understand, and don't say "she sleeping in the same bed as me" bla bla bla...wanna know why she is doing it?

Because she knows you are a nice guy, and as long as she "acts" like she wants to recover you will give HER ANYTHING!

SIGH...
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:25 PM
Wait...so alimony is claimed as income but CS is not? I didn't know that.

Oh hell, I'd definately bump her wages up to 50K, find a lower paying job, give her spousal support, and fight her on this until bankruptcy.

But this whole thing makes me angry and bitter. And, in the meantime, I'd expose OM for making contact a 3rd time so he's have to find a new career. There's no way I'd make this easy on anyone.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:26 PM
Look up pom's story. He rolled over and got taken for a huge ride because he started rolling over just like YOU!

You must take control back.

But, you clearly don't want to be told that. You want to be tld that your current course of action is okay. It's not.

Good luck.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Wait...so alimony is claimed as income but CS is not? I didn't know that.

Yes, just like Alimony is a DEDUCTION for the person paying it. But child support is not deductible (by the person giving it)...nor does it have to be claimed as income (by the person receiving it).

So...which one is a WS gonna want?

Doesn't take a degree in rocket science to figure that one out, does it. crazy


committed
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:30 PM
Here is her point about the child support.

The earning potential of 50k was based on her old job that she lost. Since she is barred from that field now she cant get a job that pays as much. She thinks that is unfair.

I dont think she wants a lifetime cap on her income being 25K. Just she is afraid that she will get screwed in the long run.

Ok. While writing this out I see your point. If she really wants to give it another try why would she be worried about leaving.

Ughh this sucks. I hate feeling manipulated but Im starting too see your point. Damn it.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Wait...so alimony is claimed as income but CS is not? I didn't know that.

Yes. This is true....

Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Oh hell, I'd definately bump her wages up to 50K, find a lower paying job, give her spousal support, and fight her on this until bankruptcy.

But this whole thing makes me angry and bitter. And, in the meantime, I'd expose OM for making contact a 3rd time so he's have to find a new career. There's no way I'd make this easy on anyone.

He still has a case for not paying ss under his state's law since she commited adultery. If he takes her back he loses that. I would make her sign a no alimony agreement and cs would be what a judge ordered...I would not agree to lowering it if I was YEG.

YEG she is running the show. You are allowing her to.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:34 PM
Quote
Since she is barred from that field now she cant get a job that pays as much. She thinks that is unfair.


Consequences from HER adulterous actions....not necessarily unfair.

Quote
Just she is afraid that she will get screwed in the long run.


So what does that mean??? That she is gonna put the screws to you then???

You need to look her in the eye and reply....

"so...YOU don't want to get screwed in all this mess...you want ME to get screwed....gotcha" crazy

Is there a crazy-making icon?????

committed
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:40 PM
[quote=YEGUghh this sucks. I hate feeling manipulated but Im starting too see your point. Damn it.[/quote]

THAT is exactly why we wanted you to see how we are seeing it!! Because she is cake-eating!

Talk to her tonight, and see if she will follow through and repair the marriage if not...KICK HER @$$ our NOW!!
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:42 PM
Yeg, I hope you do start to see the light. She has not committed to the marriage. She has gotten legal advice and she wants you to take back your divorce startings. She wants you to lower her salary cap so you'll pay more in child support. Do you see how well she is covering herself?

She cannot forecast that she will never get a job making that much.

We all have to lie in the bed we make. When we make bad decisions, we have to pay the piper. I'd still go for full custody. And I sure wouldn't lower her wages to 25K. She's feeling way too entitled here.


Yeg, please listen to all this advice you're getting. You're getting a ton of advice fromm FWW. If you're going to listen to anyone...listen to them.

You should be mad at this point and refusing to get treated like you are by your WW.
Posted By: happyheart Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 06:52 PM
If WW is smart (and she comes across as very smart to me) she will do what most people would do, which is: think ahead.
After the divorce - and she has clearly been stating that she is afraid that if she recommits the marriage is going to fail anyway - she must assure she has an income and she will probably want to keep the child of course.

FACT
WW has stated that she is worried that the marriage will end in divorce even if she does try

FACT
WW is smart enough to debug the house, get the log of the computer and have an affair phone which you haven't been able to detect for as long as this is going on (so much for your snooping abilities, Sherlock!)

FACT
In plan B, wife is without home and child - suddenly she has a
change of heart and wants to come back in the house (but not much else). This just so happens to help her custody case (just in case of course, she can't be that calculating can she?!)

FACT
wife wants to know how much longer it will take before the, for her so unfavorable, divorce claim expires. (Just because she wants to stay together, it is unimaginable that she is just putting up with me for a few weeks extra, because of a better divorce settlement for the next xty years???!)

FACT
wife wants to lower her end of the deal to 25k (just because she loves me so much of course and because we are not going to get a divorce anyway, right? It couldn't be because she is calculating her new net income which I will be paying from my oh so steady job right??!!! She wouldn't cuddle up to me to save herself from living in a tiny apartment with no money for the next 40 years, would she? I mean, some women would even go to such lengths as to throw in sf for that, but... not she... not my sweetheart?!
After all she has only been affairing on me for the past four years out of 5. And she is sorry.. Deep inside she is a decent person, isn't she?!)

FACT
If you drop the divorce, or the time expires, the ball is in her court. If she is interested in reconciliation she wouldn't be interested in the time frame anyway.

FACT
She is not acting as someone who is honestly putting in even
the slightest effort. Everything has to come from your side.

QUESTION
How does she treat people which she considers to have been mean to her, or how does she get her way with people who are her enemies? Does she yell at them in their face, or does she sneak around until she has what she wants? You should know her by now. This is important, because that is just how she is going to be treating you.

If you haven't got it by now, you are the greatest threat to her so far wonderful life. You can take away her house, her standard of living, her child possibly, her husband and her boyfriend.
She would be a fool, not being nice to you and my bet is, she is smarter than you.
Posted By: happyheart Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 07:15 PM
come on YEG, we all want you to make this work.
Man up. You have been seen to show courage before.
This is your only chance to decide on your life in 20 years from now.

You either want a wife that is fully committed or a new wife that loves you and wants to make YOU happy.

NEITHER IS GOING TO HAPPEN IF YOU GO ON LIKE THIS, YOU FOOOOOOOL!

Puleeeeeze think about this:

if she is not sincere you will not even have the money to support a new wife/family because you will be working 24/7 for a woman that wasn't good to you and a child that you only see every other weekend.

if she is sincere, and she commits under these conditions, your marriage might even be worse than how it was in the last 4 years.

Ten years from now, you will be pulling your (all grey of course) hair out for not seeing this.



The light at the end of the tunnel you are so eagerly running into, looks rather like a train in this case.


You need our prayers. - Do not jump off the bridge just yet when you finally see it, because there is still hope!
Posted By: YEG Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 07:24 PM
bleh page 67 is blocked.

OK. This is finally sinking in a bit.

Im just going to stay as is atm. Im going to wait till I talk to steve to do anything else.

Talked to my lawyer. Apparently reconciliation agreements are pretty complicated. She said anything we wrote up would not be valid in court anyways.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by YEG
bleh page 67 is blocked.

OK. This is finally sinking in a bit.

Im just going to stay as is atm. Im going to wait till I talk to steve to do anything else.

Talked to my lawyer. Apparently reconciliation agreements are pretty complicated. She said anything we wrote up would not be valid in court anyways.

I'm not sure why you need a reconciliation agreement drawn up by a lawyer. ?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 07:51 PM
Why don't you just legally divorce her and if she finally decides at some point that she wants to reconcile, she has to agree to all your conditions for reconciliation.

I remember one WS that posted here whose husband was a lawyer and made her accept a legal divorce where she signed away everything as a condition for taking her back. I think that may be Mrs. Vanilla? Either way. THAT is how you drive the train and get your WW to agree to YOUR conditions for reconciliation. That BS did not screw around.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 07:53 PM
He is not going to make it. YEG, you are being played like a fiddle and are headed towards disaster unless you wake up. There is nothing we can do for you if refuse to get off the train tracks.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/06/10 10:36 PM
Yeg, look at it this way, if you came up with a Plan B and stuck it out this time and she moved out, this is what would happen....she would them for the first time realize that you would no longer be in her life that has not happened yet and she has not had to feel what that would be like.....my guess is that she is thinking about you being different now and probably is a little torn about what she wants, she has had a little taste of the you she wants, this is exactly what you want her to miss....
Get your separation agreement ready and then have her move out, tell her that you cannot continue working on your relationship as long as she is involved with the OM...Tell her you deserve more than she is giving you and that you are willing to let her go so she can be happy.....
If she has been thinking at all about a future with you this will scare her, the thought of you being gone for good will force her to make her mind up once and for all, she has had enough time......Yeg, it's time OM or you.....
Make sure she knows it's all or nothing, no more thinking about it......
Even if she picks the Om, stay dark, don't contact her and let it just play out, affairs never work out, it's all based on fantasy, they don't really want to fill all their needs, they just want the good parts.....it will fizzle out....then she will see that what she has done was her worst mistake...
She might realize if she picks him and gives you up that just might be to big a price to pay.....
I remember my husband saying to me in the middle of the fogginess that if he were to explore his feelings for his OW that he knew that he would lose me for good and that was the reason he just didn't continue with the affair.......I made it clear to him that this would be the outcome if he chose her, I told him I had enough friends and that I would never have anything ever to do with him again. He knew I was serious and left him to chose in the end, I went to the bank, changed all the accounts, drew up a separation agreement, which I pretty much made him sign.....told him this was his decision and that he had made his choices....our agreement had him leaving our home of 26 years, the boys would continue to live with me when they were home, I think the thought of losing his life as he had know it was enough and the thought of never having me around again wasn't worth it to him........OW had only been in his life for 6 months.
Trust in what you can offer her, a future a family and a man that will forgive her. I'm sure you are scared but you have to be tough and believe in yourself and what you have to offer..........
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 12:17 AM
YEG:

Divorce her right away.

You can always take her back if she changes her tune.

Once you are divorce you can play all the scenarios you want with WW.

What do you have to lose?
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 12:28 AM
Okay, Yeg. I learned something this weekend. You see, you are a Buyer. You figured that when you married it would be FOR LIFE. You are having a hard time letting go of this one. THAT is OKAY. Problem is, your WW ISN'T a Buyer. She is a FREELOADER in your marriage right now. She CAN become a Buyer, but that ISN'T what you have right now.

You need to see that you CAN move on and that you WILL NOT deal with a marriage where you have a FREELOADING wife. That will NOT be okay with you in the future. ALL OR NOTHING.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
YEG:

Divorce her right away.

You can always take her back if she changes her tune.

Once you are divorce you can play all the scenarios you want with WW.

What do you have to lose?

His wife, Stan-ley. He could lose his wife.

YEG, if you don't want to divorce, STOP THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS. Don't play the game of 'who blinks first'.

Plan B I can see - but you have a WW who is wobbling on the fence. You want to divorce her so she can see the error of her ways? That's not going to work for you.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 12:59 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by Stan-ley
YEG:

Divorce her right away.

You can always take her back if she changes her tune.

Once you are divorce you can play all the scenarios you want with WW.

What do you have to lose?

His wife, Stan-ley. He could lose his wife.

YEG, if you don't want to divorce, STOP THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS. Don't play the game of 'who blinks first'.

Plan B I can see - but you have a WW who is wobbling on the fence. You want to divorce her so she can see the error of her ways? That's not going to work for you.


YEG already lost his wife.

The divorce is for his own protection.


YEG already lost the wife whether there is a divorce or not.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
His wife, Stan-ley. He could lose his wife.

YEG, if you don't want to divorce, STOP THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS. Don't play the game of 'who blinks first'.

He has already lost her. Now he stands to lose everything legally. He should NOT stop the divorce. If he plans on going into Plan B, which he should, he should protect himself legally.

He needs to go forward with the divorce in order to protect himself legally whether he wants one or not.. And then if she changes he can drop the divorce. But this way, he will be protected regardless of what happens.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 02:21 AM
If she changes after the divorce they can always remarry!

Where is johnstwin to prove it when we need her to be...
Posted By: TheRoad Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 12:43 PM
"If she changes after the divorce they can always remarry!"

Eactly, he doesn't get screwed in D court. Then they can recover with a prenup.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 04:06 PM
Here's what it looks like from where I'm sitting:
YEG, you started out pretty wussy. Nothing wrong with that - the business of being a BS takes some getting used to.

You Plan A'd your WW. Didn't work. (Probably because of the 'needy' nature of your actions.)

You start pondering the wisdom of D and share your thoughts with WW while she's playing single chick living with her parents. (And staying in contact with OM.)

You Plan B WW for about 5 minutes and fold the Plan like a tent in a windstorm when she starts making noise about returning to the M.

You have no Plan for recovery, but your threads all carry the same theme: You DO NOT want to D.

YEG, I think your WW began to see the light when you went to Plan B. I don't think you stayed in Plan B long enough. She appeared to become concerned because her life was becoming out of her control, and all of her selfish needs weren't going to be met. She tried to appease you in order to keep you and keep those needs being met.

She's been lying to you. She never ended contact with OM. I think you should Plan B her again, and this time make it a solid, stellar Plan B.

As far as the D goes - I suspect that your WW will accept that as the end of your time together. I don't think it will draw her back to you. If you must divorce her in order to protect yourself, I won't argue that with you.

I'm going to stand firm on this: IMO, your best bet is to Plan B your WW. I think you will lose her permanently with Plan D.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 08:31 PM
I wonder what happened last night with YEG and his wife...I really hope he talked to her, laying down what she needs to do to recover...and if she isn't....I REALLY hope he kicked her out and gave her his plan B letter.

YEG?? Any update??
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
I wonder what happened last night with YEG and his wife...I really hope he talked to her, laying down what she needs to do to recover...and if she isn't....I REALLY hope he kicked her out and gave her his plan B letter.

YEG?? Any update??

I think he's locked her in a closet and he's not going to let her out until she agrees to NC. That way he has her at home like he likes her and she can't do any damage.

I kid. I kid.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/07/10 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I'm going to stand firm on this: IMO, your best bet is to Plan B your WW. I think you will lose her permanently with Plan D.

I disagree with this. Divorce has never stopped a motivated spouse from getting back with her spouse, but it has prevented an entitled, destructive WS from destroying a BS legally. Filing for divorce will not stop her if she is sincere.

Filing for divorce and/or legal separation is always in order in Plan B to protect the legal interests of the BS. He should file for divorce and go into Plan B. It is not either or.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:55 AM
He HAS filed for divorce Mel, I think he was thinking about STOPPING the divorce now. I might be wrong, but that's what I saw.

Yeg, if you think that you can, you really SHOULD do a FULLY DARK Plan B.

Talk to Steve and see what he suggests but PLEASE be completely HONEST with what you are saying and what is going on. It will only BENEFIT you to be honest. laugh
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 04:31 AM
I suspect YEG's WW asked him not to post in MB anymore.
Posted By: Scotland Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 04:33 AM
Can't know for certain, but if that is true, we all know who is driving that bus now.
Posted By: DisplayName Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 04:55 AM
God, i hope not. i've followed this trainwreck for the last few days, but quit posting because i realized i was giving him terrible, hyper-optimistic advice. i HOPE he hasn't posted lately because he's been too busy laying down the law.
at any rate, i hope he doesn't get effed over re divorce. he's about the nicest guy on the planet, right? he deserves better. even if he's been warned a million times and couldn't bring himself to listen, i hate to think of what's happening to his family. eternal optimist that i am, i'd like to think he's out there telling WW what's what, and is prepared to protect himself if she balks. prayers for YEG's family, y'all.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 11:44 AM
Yeg, thinking of you and your family, stay strong......post when you feel you can, we are all here with you and worried about you.......we have all been here in this moment.......
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 12:45 PM
Quote
I disagree with this. Divorce has never stopped a motivated spouse from getting back with her spouse, but it has prevented an entitled, destructive WS from destroying a BS legally. Filing for divorce will not stop her if she is sincere.

The reason I am so strongly suggesting Plan B is because I knew a WW who had an A and was unable to get off the fence. Plan B was pulling her back to the M. Then she got the D papers and decided it had gone too far to repair the M. They divorced. She regrets it to this day. That WW sounds a lot like YEG's.

So we'll agree to disagree. smile YEG, what's going on?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
[
The reason I am so strongly suggesting Plan B is because I knew a WW who had an A and was unable to get off the fence. Plan B was pulling her back to the M. Then she got the D papers and decided it had gone too far to repair the M. They divorced. She regrets it to this day. That WW sounds a lot like YEG's.

But again, if that WW had wanted to save her marriage, the divorce would not have stopped her. The reason she didn't repair the marriage is because she didn't want to. Wild horses would not stop a WS from repairing the marriage if that is their choice. Not doing this leaves him at great legal disadvantage for absolutely no good reason.
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:17 PM
Quote
I knew a WW who had an A and was unable to get off the fence. Plan B was pulling her back to the M. Then she got the D papers and decided it had gone too far to repair the M

Of course she has regrets. A relationship with OM in daylight is not the same as a clandestine relationship in secrecy.

Her regret came too late-------and now she blames her ex H banghead.

Posted By: markos Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I'm going to stand firm on this: IMO, your best bet is to Plan B your WW. I think you will lose her permanently with Plan D.

I disagree with this. Divorce has never stopped a motivated spouse from getting back with her spouse, but it has prevented an entitled, destructive WS from destroying a BS legally. Filing for divorce will not stop her if she is sincere.

Filing for divorce and/or legal separation is always in order in Plan B to protect the legal interests of the BS. He should file for divorce and go into Plan B. It is not either or.

I think some people seem to be drawing a distinction between Plan B and divorce that doesn't necessarily exist.

Divorce is a legal tool that can be used to implement a Plan B. Separation is another available tool in some states.

Early in the process it's entirely possible to not make a final decision about which end goal you have in mind, or to be open to both.

And even in divorce, maintaining a Plan B-like level of separation from your ex-spouse, for your own good, seems like an excellent idea. Plan B is FOR YOU.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
I disagree with this. Divorce has never stopped a motivated spouse from getting back with her spouse, but it has prevented an entitled, destructive WS from destroying a BS legally. Filing for divorce will not stop her if she is sincere.

The reason I am so strongly suggesting Plan B is because I knew a WW who had an A and was unable to get off the fence. Plan B was pulling her back to the M. Then she got the D papers and decided it had gone too far to repair the M. They divorced. She regrets it to this day. That WW sounds a lot like YEG's.

So we'll agree to disagree. smile YEG, what's going on?

She regrets that her BS chose to end the marriage because of her adultery or she regrets that she couldn't WOULND'T get her [censored] off the fence?

The onus shouldn't be on YEG in this instance. If his WW were here, you could tell her that story...it pertains to her.

Divorce can happen when a WS fence sits.

They didn't get divorced because HE did something.

They got divorced because SHE did...and because she continued to fence sit...and cake eat. You cannot blame the BS for that one.

Consequences for her actions...she was evidently willing to risk it. Decision was taken from her hands...as well it should be.

committed
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by markos
[
Divorce is a legal tool that can be used to implement a Plan B. Separation is another available tool in some states.

.

Exactly. Filing for divorce doesn't mean you don't go into Plan B. It means you do both. And yes, it is simply a legal tool used to protect the BS and her/his children.

In most cases it makes more sense to just file for divorce instead of separation because if Plan B goes to 2 years, then you should just finalize the divorce and move on.
Posted By: Enlightened_Ex Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:32 PM
MB, you realize that the BH filing for divorce didn't cause the divorce to be final. Sure, it was an action that lead to the divorce being final.

What made it final was that BOTH apparently had given up.

How committed to the marriage was the WW if she gave up because her betrayed husband chose to divorce?

I can play speculation games too. What if she wouldn't have had the affair?

What if she would have ended the affair immediately, before he went into plan B?

I don't see how you can blame the BH for the bad choices of the WW? She had the affair, she didn't come back in time.

Her fault, game over.

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
I disagree with this. Divorce has never stopped a motivated spouse from getting back with her spouse, but it has prevented an entitled, destructive WS from destroying a BS legally. Filing for divorce will not stop her if she is sincere.

The reason I am so strongly suggesting Plan B is because I knew a WW who had an A and was unable to get off the fence. Plan B was pulling her back to the M. Then she got the D papers and decided it had gone too far to repair the M. They divorced. She regrets it to this day. That WW sounds a lot like YEG's.

So we'll agree to disagree. smile YEG, what's going on?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:34 PM
Quote
Consequences for her actions...she was evidently willing to risk it. Decision was taken from her hands...as well it should be.

Whoa - that's almost exactly what I told her! laugh

I guess my main point was that she had the decision taken from her hands when there was another way that might have kept them together. Her A was in the process of imploding when she got the papers. She thought she would be left with nothing, so she pulled the A back together.

Wacky wayward, I know. But YEG's WW sounds a lot like her.
Posted By: Enlightened_Ex Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
Consequences for her actions...she was evidently willing to risk it. Decision was taken from her hands...as well it should be.

Whoa - that's almost exactly what I told her! laugh

I guess my main point was that she had the decision taken from her hands when there was another way that might have kept them together. Her A was in the process of imploding when she got the papers. She thought she would be left with nothing, so she pulled the A back together.

Wacky wayward, I know. But YEG's WW sounds a lot like her.

So how is that the fault of choosing divorce? In fact, it sounds like choosing to divorce this WW was the right thing to do.

After all, if her concern was she'll have nothing, not how I've hurt my family, etc, then she was still wayward and not being drawn back into the marriage as you suggested, but being drawn back to marital assets that she didn't have.
Posted By: committedandlovi Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I guess my main point was that she had the decision taken from her hands when there was another way that might have kept them together.

Which is why it would be beneficial to share this if it was the wayward spouse that was posting.

I don't see the benefit of posting it to a betrayed spouse who is having a terrible time seeing the forest for the trees.

committed

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 02:54 PM
Quote
After all, if her concern was she'll have nothing, not how I've hurt my family, etc, then she was still wayward and not being drawn back into the marriage as you suggested, but being drawn back to marital assets that she didn't have.

I think she was beginning to defog when she got served, from the way she talked. That she was beginning to realize what she was losing by having her A. Then she got served and stayed with OM.
Anyhoo - wacky wayward, like I said. laugh

Sorry for the t/j, YEG!
Posted By: Enlightened_Ex Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
After all, if her concern was she'll have nothing, not how I've hurt my family, etc, then she was still wayward and not being drawn back into the marriage as you suggested, but being drawn back to marital assets that she didn't have.

I think she was beginning to defog when she got served, from the way she talked. That she was beginning to realize what she was losing by having her A. Then she got served and stayed with OM.
Anyhoo - wacky wayward, like I said. laugh

Sorry for the t/j, YEG!

Yeah, apparently it was the stuff based on what you indicated was her rationale for staying with the OM. It wasn't she was losing a great husband, it was she would be left with nothing. Not no one, but nothing.

She missed what he could provide, but not him.

It was good she got cut from the team. He made the right choice.
Posted By: Enlightened_Ex Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 03:07 PM
This really isn't a thread jack. Instead, it demonstrates that if you create the crisis of filing for divorce, you can see what your wayward spouse is made of. You can see what she values.

If she fights to save the marriage, for the sake of not losing a spouse who is valuable to her, she's a keeper.

If she fights for the stuff, that she's afraid she's going to lose the stuff, the kids, the income, then she is not recovery material.

I see it more as a test of the character of the WW. The result of the filing depends heavily on her character. If she demonstrates good character, the divorce can be placed on hold. If she demonstrates wayward character, it can be allowed to run it's course at almost any speed.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
This really isn't a thread jack. Instead, it demonstrates that if you create the crisis of filing for divorce, you can see what your wayward spouse is made of. You can see what she values.

If she fights to save the marriage, for the sake of not losing a spouse who is valuable to her, she's a keeper.

If she fights for the stuff, that she's afraid she's going to lose the stuff, the kids, the income, then she is not recovery material.

I see it more as a test of the character of the WW. The result of the filing depends heavily on her character. If she demonstrates good character, the divorce can be placed on hold. If she demonstrates wayward character, it can be allowed to run it's course at almost any speed.

I never thought about it, but you're right. Her throw-in-the-towel mentality says a lot.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
This really isn't a thread jack. Instead, it demonstrates that if you create the crisis of filing for divorce, you can see what your wayward spouse is made of. You can see what she values.

If she fights to save the marriage, for the sake of not losing a spouse who is valuable to her, she's a keeper.

If she fights for the stuff, that she's afraid she's going to lose the stuff, the kids, the income, then she is not recovery material.

I see it more as a test of the character of the WW. The result of the filing depends heavily on her character. If she demonstrates good character, the divorce can be placed on hold. If she demonstrates wayward character, it can be allowed to run it's course at almost any speed.

Excellent point. In my situation, I filed for divorce immediately. He did nothing to stop the divorce..WH rolled over quickly on custody, but fought over alimony and property. It sure made it clear what he valued.
Posted By: Enlightened_Ex Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 03:11 PM
So in other words, what drives behavior is character.

It's not events. Events only expose character.

A spouse filing for divorce doesn't drive the character of the WW being divorced. It exposes her character.

If she cozies up with the OM, then you have your answer. If she comes to your lawyers office and says, it's true, I hurt my husband and I'll agree to any terms to save the marriage, a post-nup, a pre-defined divorce agreement if I don't demonstrate my love and devotion to my betrayed husband, he can have it all because I've done that much damage.

I think any BH would respond to that sort of humility and contrition.

But if the WW just runs to the OM, is that because of a defect in his choosing divorce or in her character.

Her character 100% of the time is where the defect lies.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 03:51 PM
YEG WHERE ARE YOU??
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
So
A spouse filing for divorce doesn't drive the character of the WW being divorced. It exposes her character.
.

EXACTLY. It simply exposed her character and her true intent. We have had so many divorces stopped and marriages turned around the years, that I know from experience that wild horses will not a WS who is serious about saving the marriage. In the case you mention, MB, the WW was not serious at all or she would have done something. She did nothing. And the BS was better off without a WS who wasn't going to try anyway. And he was legally protected.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/08/10 05:16 PM
YEG,

Been catching up on your thread. There are TONS of parallels between what you're being fed and the situation I went through.

Please understand that while we pile on you, we're rooting for you. We WANT you to recover your marriage or get a good deal if you D.

But the problem is that you're not following the advice you're being given.

Like you, I had a WW that was very manipulative and played me like a fiddle. Like you I got sweet talked into certain divorce agreements which did nothing more than set her up to be in a great situation once we split.

This is where we offer the advice we offer. It comes from experience.

There is only one option for divorce: Full out war where you're looking to take anything and everything. Make divorce look so ugly and nasty that she doesn't want to go down that path and risks losing everything if she does.

This doesn't mean that will necessarily go down that path. It's a front to the concessions you can give at a later date to settle things. But the appearance must be that she is going to lose her shirt if she goes down that path.

She wants CS calcualted on $25k instead of $50k? Tough. Her earning potential has been shown to be $50k so that is what will be used.

She's lawyered up, so the odds are that she's following advice on how not to lose her shirt, which included moving back into the house and taking away your opportunity to file for abandonment, which set you up for your son.

The problem you have is the one I had. You love her and don't want this so you're playing a half a$$ed game where you hope she will wake up.

Well, she's not playing the same game. She's using your love for her to manipulate you into better deals for herself.

Trust me. I speak from experience. My WW took me on dates, had SF, promised me we'd be back together again after some healing time, and basically left me signing away everything.

Once the ink was dry, she ran off with her new found freedom, all our stuff, and the kids. So I was left holding empty promises and not much more. She left me unemployed, broke, without my kids, and depressed beyond belief. I spent about $70k to correct the errors and I'm really just now getting above water, 4 years after the D.

So remove your emotions. Don't think of her as your wife. Think of her as a person you don't trust that you have to sign a contract with.

So fight. Fight hard, be a hardass, and don't compromise.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/09/10 12:23 PM
YEG hasn't posted since the afternoon of 7/6...hope all is well...
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/09/10 01:36 PM
Listen to Helpthelostdads.... he always has good advice.

This is the way I see it and what I've stood by.

1) Divorce should not be used as a tool for reconciliation. Of course, when you are trying to recover, definitely paint the divorce process as painful and difficult as possible and make it a very unpleasant alternative to recovery. But, once the decision has been made to divorce and papers are filed, then the door to recovery is closed, permanently. I was not willing to take that step (divorce) until I was 100% convinced that it was inevitable. I just don't see holding onto hope when things are proceeding through the legal system, and I don't think it's a good way to force your spouse to make a decision.

2) Divorce is a business deal. You are trying to get the most custody and most money you can get in the deal. You must take the emotions out of it, wether they are anger and you are looking for retribution, or left over feelings for your spouse and trying to appease them. As in business, you can choose to be totally ruthless, or you can try to be as fair as possible - both approaches can be successful depending on the circumstances. However, you will never come out ahead by rolling over.

Get yourself a lawyer and plan and counter her every move. You can be sure that your wife is and she sounds like a smart one to me!
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/09/10 01:45 PM
Quote
But, once the decision has been made to divorce and papers are filed, then the door to recovery is closed, permanently.


Not true. We were three days away from the divorce being final when I stopped the divorce. Filing for divorce is for PROTECTION until the outcome is known. If recovery happens, a divorce can always be stopped. If it doesn't, then the protection is already in place.

With that said, if a divorce is filed, the person filing should seek all relief available to them and not hold back in hopes of recovery. That is the sensible thing to do. In Yeg's case, it is the ONLY sensible thing to do based on his WW's actions and behavior.
Posted By: schtoop Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/09/10 02:30 PM
Quote
But, once the decision has been made to divorce and papers are filed, then the door to recovery is closed, permanently.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating this approach for others, it's just the way I felt and what worked for me.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/09/10 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
YEG hasn't posted since the afternoon of 7/6...hope all is well...


Ya...I'm getting worried about him too...I wonder if there is a way we can email him can't we?
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/09/10 06:24 PM
Filing for divorce doesn't make things final. It certainly shows an ugly alternative to recovery.

But it's a path that should be followed if there appears to be a no progress being made by a wayward. It's ugly and it sucks, but having that in the back pocket is simply insurance and protection.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/12/10 09:09 PM
Yeg, you okay? Please post and at least say hi so we'll know you're okay.
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 07/18/10 09:33 PM
Hi YEG,

I have to assume at this point that you are not wanting to be bothered by an MB member, but nonetheless, I just wanted to say hi and bump your story up.

I hope that you and your W are making honest progress toward reconciliation and recovery.

On the other hand, I fear that you may be one of the BH's who stop in, look and listen, try hard, and then take your own advice and disappear. I hope that is not your case.

Anyway, good luck, and I hope you have brought enough of MB away with you to not only permit self-change, but to give you a good chance to save your M.

The best to you,

Tom


Posted By: princessmeggy Re: 33 BH Now Driving the Train - 10/01/10 09:40 PM
Hey Yeg, I was looking at another user's post and realized that you haven't posted in some time. What's up?
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