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Posted By: disgustedandsad trying to make it through - 06/18/10 12:49 AM
Hello everyone,

I have been reading and posting a bit for a couple of months but have not told my entire story. I have been afraid because the OW had been hacking into my computer last fall, before our wireless network was as secure as it is now.

My Story:

My H and I have been married for 8 years. It is the 2nd marriage for both and we both had 2 daughters. At the time of our marriage they were 4, 7, 12, and 14. My daughters were with us most of the time, but did visit their father often. As they got older, their activities changed and we went from less of a formal visitation schedule to a more fluid one.Their father was flexible and so was I. My step-daughters' mother, however, hated my H for divorcing her and devoted her life to alienating the children. I won’t tell the stories; nobody would believe them. It’s been a nightmare and a big stress on our marriage.

The year after we were married, my H was laid off from his job. He has a profession that is not in much demand, and he didn’t want to move to areas where it was because of the children. I agreed with him, and I picked up extra work, working more like 50 hours a week. He did some adjunct teaching to earn money, and picked up more of the household chores.

More stresses

It worked for about 3 years but he got more and more depressed and sunk into a huge depression. Our family doctor gave him medication, and the medication gave him a psychotic breakdown one day. He became, literally, crazy, and violent. I called the police; he was arrested. It was terrible. He now has a misdemeanor on his record; it was reduced because of what is called “involuntary intoxication” – he was prescribed the medication.
Meanwhile, I could not take the stress of trying to work so much. My thyroid gave out, I was exhausted, and I could not lose weight. We finally decided we had to move so he could get a full time job and I would work only one job. He still had to support his children, of course, but we had to find another way.
My youngest daughter was about to start her senior year of high school when he found a job two states away. We decided to have him move to an apt., start house hunting, come home every month, and then when school was out I would join him. We did this. My youngest started college that fall. We had a new house, were making some new friends and learning about our new state.

The A

The A didn’t start until 2 years later. My H was angry and blamed me for his arrest record because I had called the police. I tried going to counseling with him and he wouldn’t take responsibility. Everyone who knew us knew he felt that way, and nobody ever agreed with him, until a co-worker did. A female co-worker. The A started in August 2008 and I discovered it July 29, 2009. I discovered the secret email account and about 400 emails with about 200 of them having photos attached. Photos of her naked, them having sex, posting them online and sharing with others, talking to others about swapping mates for sex. I spent a lot of time screaming and vomiting. I found out it happened in my bed, and took all my bedroom furniture, bedding, photos on the wall, etc. to the dump.
Once the OW found I knew, she claimed she had tried to end the relationship earlier. This was a lie because I found out about it when I found a text message from her that day. Then she went to HR at work and said he was harassing her. There was a full investigation, and they both ended up fired or forced to resign because they had sex at work. She is now filing restraining orders saying that she did not post the photos online. She is doing this because I forwarded all the emails and photos to her H, who divorced her and is going for custody. We have spent about 15k in legal fees. We are not done yet.
D-day is coming next month, and I am so far from healed. So much of the past year has been taken up with the job investigation and loss and the court case which has dragged on 6 months. My H is going to IC and we are going to MC with an infidelity-trained therapist. I go to a BAN group every other week. I have read SAA and bought Love Busters and HNHN. My H is reading them too. I see him making changes but I am so far from healed and it’s been a year, almost. He is trying to learn to meet my ENs. I am really not that interested in meeting his. I know I should; I am angry and resentful and that isn’t serving anyone well.
That’s my story.
Posted By: schoolbus Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 01:22 AM
D&S,

I have to ask a very tough question:

You have decided to save your marriage - do you expect to do that if you continue to carry anger and resentment?


Another one:

Do you love your husband?



I want to assume that you love him, and you want to save the marriage. Or, that you want to love him and save the marriage.

Either way, the anger and resentment need to go away...to make room for the love...


I know a lot about anger and resentment. Maybe too much. Anger can eat you up and kill your spirit.

Do you see the anger reducing over time, or is it increasing?


SB
Posted By: schoolbus Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 01:23 AM
Oh, BTW, it is not unusual to have lots of anger at the one year anniversary time. Not unusual at all. I'm asking because I need to understand the overall trajectory of your anger level.
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 01:25 AM
I love my H, and I want to get rid of the anger and resentment. He is trying, and slowly succeeding, in changing what needed to be changed in him. It's been a two step forward, one step backward process. But it ultimately is forward.

It has reduced over time but there are bad days. It does eat me up!

Thank you for responding.
Posted By: schoolbus Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 01:37 AM
If the anger is reducing over time, then you are pretty normal! It's just pretty average to hit that one-year anniversary point and see a surge in anger and resentment. Sorry to have to tell you that - but it is the truth.

The two-year point is much better - I found myself more reflective at the 2 yr point. The anger died down - maybe because my H had more time to help me heal and payback work done by then. Also, I had done more internal work and reduced triggers and increased understanding by then, too.

Stay with the MB program - you will get through this. On d-day, you need to make sure you will be busy doing something you love to do. Don't be idle, don't make that day some special day to mourn.

Your husband ultimately will look back and completely understand what has happened - and he will take responsibility. You need to understand that your recovery patterns are very different. You are recovering from the trauma, and he is recovering from internal issues. He has devastated his own life, his family's lives, and his marriage - he has a great deal of internal reflection to do, lots of repentance, and lots of restitution. It takes time to figure out these types of issues - he has a great deal of work to do, and although sometimes as BS's we believe that the WS's get off "scot free", the truth is that they have internal struggles that are difficult and deep.

Can you imagine doing what he has done? Can you imagine inflicting this type of pain on someone you love, and then, trying to make up for this?
Can you imagine what might go through your own mind when you turn out the lights and try to sleep - after you have done this to your spouse and children?
Can you imagine trying to figure out why the he// you did this? Why you didn't stop when you could have, should have?

Like I said...the WS does not get off so easily.

Hang in there.

SB
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 01:58 AM
Thanks for saying I am normal! I haven't felt normal in a long time!!

I will make some good plans for D-day. That is great advice. I don't want it to creep up on me.

I love the MB ideas. My H likes them too. I can't imagine destroying my life the way he did. I know in many ways it was worse for him. I still have a great job, my friends and family were supportive and were furious at him when I exposed. I could have walked away and had the ability to support myself, keep my life except for him, and been all right (eventually).

I wish there were local MB support groups for couples - it sure would be a great support system!
Posted By: myfamilyilove Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:06 AM
Sorry for your pain. Sounds to me like the A is the least of your worries. Attempting R with a swinger would be extremely difficult. Seriously given all the other issues I'd be asking myself is it really worth the hassle
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:13 AM
I will NOT be a swinger, or be married to someone who is. He knows this.

It does concern me that he was looking at doing so during the A, with his AP, who would have done so according to the emails between them that I read.

It seems like even in their bad boundaries of having an A, they had even worse boundaries. If that makes sense?

I have an employee who works for me that does this, and she has 4 STDs and is an emotional mess. She's a poster child for anti-swinging. ICK.
Posted By: myfamilyilove Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:26 AM
Sorry I thought he had done some swinging - my bad. Yes safe sex usually goes out the window in affairs - after all they are 'soulmates' - yuck!

Maybe you should reconsider your choice of employee? I wouldn't have that woman anywhere near me
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:29 AM
He hadn't but he wanted to - and so did she. Actually having those emails has helped us in court while she played "harrassment victim" because our attorney actually tracted down two of the swingers and got statements from them.

The employee is actually in another state - I am a regional director for a large company and never see her. Her supervisor told me the details....ick!

I am still worried that swinging is something he wants, and could be a dealbreaker.
Posted By: myfamilyilove Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:33 AM
Well if it is you have no hope for recovery. Thats something you really need to sort out first
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:33 AM
Originally Posted By: disgustedandsad
II have an employee who works for me that does this, and she has 4 STDs and is an emotional mess. She's a poster child for anti-swinging. ICK.


DS, I am sorry you are here, but glad that you found us. The fastest way to get over this is to create a romantic, passionate marriage. It will help you overcome the resentment and help him fill the vacuum left by his affair. The fastest way to do this is by following Dr Harley's guidelines about undivided attention. It works and it works fast. In fact, Dr Harley says his program won't even work with out it.

Go check out these links:
Undivided Attention

Policy of Undivided Attention
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:35 AM
Originally Posted By: disgustedandsad
I am still worried that swinging is something he wants, and could be a dealbreaker.


The solution is to make your marriage much more attractive than the prospect of swinging. You can do this.

Does he look at porn?
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:36 AM
Yes, he looks at porn sometimes.
Posted By: myfamilyilove Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:42 AM
Perhaps you could use a little porn to spice up your sex life. Although very dangerous when viewed alone, it can be an effective tool for married couples to use TOGETHER. Obviously only if that is something you would be comfortable with. Anyway just a thought
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: disgustedandsad
Yes, he looks at porn sometimes.


That is not good. When he gets sexual enjoyment outside of your marriage it robs your own sex life. He enjoys your sex life less because he compares it to unrealistic people/situations.
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:45 AM
I am reading the Undivided Attention and I have to say that we don't do that. Most of the year, we are in the house alone (with 2 dogs and a cat). Right now, my stepdaughters are here for 4 weeks (3 weeks of this are left, and I am counting it down).

We do go out together to dinner and an event once a week (movie, comedy club show, etc.) but we definately don't do 15 hours together. We will both be on laptops working in the same room, but that isn't UA. We do errands together, and sometimes that is fun.

We don't have SF enough to meet his needs. I just had some surgery and can't right now but even before it, we weren't. All the photos I saw from the A would pop in my head often. I felt like a second choice. I feel that he is only committed to the M now that he is jobless, and in a tight spot and worried about what will happen when he isn't and things settle down again.
Posted By: myfamilyilove Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:48 AM
You have to MAKE time for each other 15hrs week min. If your M is truly important you will do it
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:51 AM
DS, that is what would give you the biggest bang for your buck and recover your marriage the FASTEST. In fact, Dr Harley says that it has to be 15 hours to MAINTAIN. It needs to be 20-25 to FALL IN LOVE, 15 to maintain.

And keep in the mind, the goal here is to FALL IN LOVE. It is not to create a peaceful co-existance, but to create romantic, passionate feelings of love. That is how this program differs from others.

The way my H and I do this is sit down once a week and actually schedule it out. That is the best way to get into the habit. Write out the times, the activity, etc and plan it out for the whole week.
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 02:52 AM
Thanks, we will do so. Can you give me some examples of what you guys plan out? I'd love to do enough to have the FALL IN LOVE feelings back.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 03:00 AM
Originally Posted By: disgustedandsad
Thanks, we will do so. Can you give me some examples of what you guys plan out? I'd love to do enough to have the FALL IN LOVE feelings back.



Do it in 2-4 hour blocks throughout the week and include SF as often as possible [I am not including here because it is TMI, but you get the idea]. Doing it in big lumps on the weekends doesn't work as well. Here is a typical week:

Monday 6 - 8 Dinner, chat about day

Wednesday - 5 - 8 early dinner, shopping at Walmart

Friday 6 - 8 catfish dinner, ride though new sub

Saturday 12-5 lunch, home show expo

Sunday: 1-5 house shopping in new subdivision, late lunch


The key is to actually PLAN it out like on a piece of paper together. You are more likely to do it if you do it that way, rather than winging it.

Then at the end of each date, write down your actual time together and then tally it up at the end of the week.

Please note that the time must be undivided attention in order to be effective. That means no friends, children, no one except you two. No movie watching or anything that takes your attention OFF each other.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 03:03 AM
DS, when you go out, dress up and look as pretty as possible. Focus on being as pleasant as possible. No fighting, no affair talk, no angry outbursts, and most of all: don't agree to an activity that makes you unhappy!!

Read this to see what I mean:

He loves Chinese and I love Mexican food. He hates Mexican and I hate Chinese. Lets say we practice a "compromise" and we go for Mexican one night and Chinese the next night. That means that I will be unhappy on one night and he will be unhappy the next because we are each gaining at the others EXPENSE for one night.

This is called sacrifice. And it leads to incompatibility and resentment. It leads to incompatibility because people won't do things that make themselves unhappy for long. I might go for Chinese 3 or 4 times and tolerate that nasty food, but pretty soon I will be finding reasons to AVOID going out to eat and he will be resentful, because people who practice sacrifice KEEP SCORE. He will be mad because I "OWE" him a Chinese night to pay for his MExican night.

The solution recommended by Marriage Builders avoids all that. Instead of going to ANY restaurant that one spouse doesn't like, the solution is to find a restaurant that BOTH LOVE. Mexican and Chinese are completely OFF our lists. In it's place is a list of restaurants we both like. This solution builds compatibility because it ensures we are BOTH happy.

And I did learn the HARD way that the agreement has to be enthusiastic. If the other person agrees reluctantly to avoid conflict, you have missed the point because the result will still be unhappiness which will lead to incompatibility.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 03:08 AM
Also, we avoid situations that cause stress and could lead to an angry outburst. For example, my H has low traffic tolerance. A single angry outburst over traffic can ruin our time together. He has learned to control his AO's, but still, we avoid traffic where possible so he doesn't get jacked up.
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 03:09 AM
Oh, thank you so much! I am will do my best to sit and plan with him and make sure the SF is in there too.

The Mexican and Chinese analogy is a good one because we do that a lot - not just with restaurants. We need to find things that we both enjoy! No more scorekeeping!
Posted By: TheRoad Re: trying to make it through - 06/18/10 11:05 AM
Normal to feel the way you are.

Recovery takes two to five years.

As to WH wanting threesome's still and now with you not necessary so. Most likely a need to keep the affair going. The affair was like a drug where they needed bigger doses to maintain a diminishing high.
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 06/20/10 10:26 PM
Thanks for telling me I am normal! A year seems like such a long time to still be angry and hurt!
Posted By: disgustedandsad Re: trying to make it through - 07/14/10 04:00 AM
So, tonight my WH tells me that he doesn't see why the BS has no responsibility in the A.

He wanted to discuss that and explore the idea.

This is after a year of IC and MC. He is reading Love Busters right now.

I just see the continued entitlement that he doesn't get. Here is what he said:

"But where is the part that the BS played in all of it? Or do BSes like to think that they had no part in the events? I don't think all A's are textbook except in the minds of those looking for them to be."

Is there any hope for this guy? Our MC is good - she is an infidelity expert. I just dont think he has been internalizing what he is told. I think he resisting taking full responsibility and making the changes needed.
Posted By: armymama Re: trying to make it through - 07/29/10 02:58 PM
Disgusted,

I saw your post on DoNoMo's thread on the recovery forum. I hope you have some good plans to keep you extra busy today.

Were you able to resolve the issue in your last post on this thread? Have you been able to schedule the UA time?

Hugs today.

AM
Posted By: Mulan Re: trying to make it through - 07/29/10 04:21 PM
Originally Posted By: disgustedandsad
So, tonight my WH tells me that he doesn't see why the BS has no responsibility in the A.


Did he talk it over with you first? Did he ask you if you were okay with him dating and sleeping with other women? Or did he make that decision entirely without you?

Quote:
He wanted to discuss that and explore the idea.


He wants to dodge responsibility for his own very selfish and destructive actions. He wants to blameshift onto somebody else.

Quote:
"But where is the part that the BS played in all of it? Or do BSes like to think that they had no part in the events? I don't think all A's are textbook except in the minds of those looking for them to be."


He wants somebody to tell him that you "drove" him to have an affair, so his choice was reasonable and it's not really his fault. Again: Blameshifting.

If the mariage was bad, he had two choices:
1) Talk to you about it and get professional help if needed.
2) Move out, file for divorce and THEN go look for somebody else.

Option 3, "have an affair withoug your spouse's knowledge or consent", was entirely his decision. That's why 100% of THAT responsibility falls on him.

Unless and until he accepts that, he still a walking foghorn.

Quote:
I think he resisting taking full responsibility and making the changes needed.


Uh, yeah. And good point. If it wasn't his fault and he did nothing wrong because YOU drove it to it, then why should HE change anything?

Big. Red. Flag.
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