My wife left over a month ago, I've been trying to open up and work with me at all. She said she needed space, then she said she didnt want to work on it at all, refused MC, Now she says she doesnt love me anymore and wants a divorce. i've been told on MB101 that shes giving me all the speech of a wayward, but i've snooped all i could, and have come up with nothing. I've came out and asked and shes denied it, i believe her 100%. I understand this is an affair board but maybe someone here can help me. I think my wife's affair is with herself. I need advice on how to coax her out of keeping up her defenses, and at least attempting to work on things with me.

We've been married 11 months now, we're 24(me) and 23(her), have been in a relationship for the better part of 8 years. We've had a very happy relationship but recently with the stresses of being laid off 3 separate times, and attempting to go back to school, i have let her emotional needs fall apart. I feel SO hopeless with things right now, and I want to do everything i possibly can to fix our marriage. I love her completely, and i'm working as hard as i can to fix myself to move forward with fulfilling her emotional needs. I'm hurting so horribly bad from this and its the most difficult thing i've ever been through.

I realize i've made mistakes but i want to reconcile my marriage, I'm ready to put in any work i have to, but she is being compeltely unwilling to do anything. Help me, please.

24 minus 8 = 16

Have you finished your education?
Are you looking for a job, or for a career?

Besides trying to restore your young marriage, what OTHER life goals do you have?

Tell us a little more about yourself.

stev,

Have you read all the way through this site's Basic Concepts?

Like i said, i've been laid off 3 times over the past few years. I had decent jobs in construction and for the big 3 for a while. We moved back in with my mother since then, and i decided to go to school to become an Engineer, so i've been going to school full time for 1.5 years now, unemployed, trying to get a job... (Detroit kind of sucks for that right now, i am trying though) This past semester things really fell apart, i took way too many classes, and none of them were easy by anystretch , Pre-calc, chem, physics, economics, and English Comp 2. I wanted to get things done faster so i could eventually start my career, and give us financial security. This was a huge mistake, and was very stressful on me, between that and us living at my parents house (neither of us liked that at all) She also got laid off, ~4 months ago, but found another job in her field relatively quickly with a better job title, but she still hates that field. Her biggest complaint is she feels like she is taking care of me, and things are not 50-50, I agreed with her, and said i want to take care of eachother and do the things that i should have been doing all of this time... She says its too late. (shes not just speaking of financially, shes talking emotionally too.)

Yes, i have. I've read everything. I just don't know how to do as it says, 'throw an olive branch' when she is completely dead set against working on things at all.

And yes, i understand we were young going into things but things just... worked, and they worked well. I assumed they would keep working like they were, but they did not, and i realize my mistake in this. And now things are at the point of breaking i think... Shes reclusive to me, and will not talk... and all i can do is worry about where things are headed.

Stev,

""but i've snooped all i could, and have come up with nothing.""

What have you done?

Checked the phone records? Put a GPS gadget on her car, showing you where she goes when she is not at work? Put a voice activated recorder in her car or at her new place, by the phone. Searched her computer for other email accounts, facebook, myspace, adultfriendfinders??

Have you driven by her new place at different hours of the day and night, checking to see if her car is there or a different one is parked there next to hers?

So she is employed and her paycheck is paying the rent at the new place? So living with your folks was that terrible that she took a hike??

Needing her space is the key give away that there is more to this than meets the eyeball. I say snoop as hard as you can.....what else you got to do?? Sorry, not that funny I know.

There is that pesky VOW too, for better or worse, richer or poorer..that she seems to have forgotten.

Her actions and words are those of a wayward. TOTALLY!! Snoop harder. Sometimes the BS does not snoop that hard because down deep they don't want to find anything.

Also waywards lie bigtime. So when you ask her, of course she will deny.

Is she slimming down and taking better care of her appearance? New clothes? New hair style?

What do her friends say about it?

Good luck brother.

kirk

The place she moved into was a place that we bought with our tax returns... we were moving in there because we hated it at my parents. She did this in the middle of the moving process, and just last week dropped off my things from the place.

I have accesss to her e-mails, facebook, bank account, phone, i've driven by the place, i've stopped by randomly, i did look through it before she took my key, nothing.

Her friends say she is being honest, and that shes just tired of me not taking care of her emotions, they don't have a reason to lie to me.

no new clothes, no new hair style, no taking better care of her appearance. nothing different. Not even anything different with what she does, besides spend time with me.

What can i do besides spy on it? I hate having nothing to DO about it. I hate the feeling of sitting back and watching things fall apart, and i cannot assume she is going to 'wake up', but i do not know how to bring her back towards me instead of away from me.

I'm not trying to seem like i'm in denial about anything, The only evidence i have is her attitude and her word, which i'd like to say i can trust somewhat.

Wow stev, since you both bought the place why was she the only one to move in. Did you both sign the papers or lease? What gave her the right to move in and not you? Just curious how this came about? You may have a right to be there if you have no signed separation agreement. At this stage it seems you need to plan A and that's tough to do when you're living apart.

I most likely do have the right to be there. This first started she said she just wanted a little space, so she moved out there while we were still painting... I kept bothering her, and i brought up that i could live there if i wanted, she freaked out, called people in my family to get me out and took my key. IF we could talk honestly i think things would improve... but i'm being completely sidelined.

explain that please?

Why would she want you out of a house that you both planned to live in together? Was buying this place a goal for both of you?

Her freaking out because you offered to live there screams something is wrong that she does not want you to know about. That is why I put up a red flag.


She has all the signs of a wayward.

We had planned it for a while, and planned to live there together, like i said, i had my stuff there before she dropped it off.

I know she has all the signs, but without proof, i cannot do anything about that.

How can i get through to her to understand things, i mean... Shes threatening to move out of state and change her name if i keep bothering her about things.

I'm desperate for help with this, wait-and-see is only making things worse, i think. I want to save our marriage, our relationship is something that i have always held as my number one priority. And even if she is wayward, i would still love her like nothing else.

Stev,

I would be SHOCKED if she doesn't have an OM and isn't in an affair, at least emotionally. All the important signs are there--refusing to engage you in conversation, emotional withdrawal, refusing to explain, moving away, impeding your physical access, etc.

Women very RARELY separate unless they have someone else on the side to run to (physically and/or emotionally). Her denials mean absolutely nothing. Every BH here has been told those same lies by his WW when he asked her directly. You must discover the affair in order to expose it, you must expose it in order to break it, and you must break it in order to make recovery possible. She's not going to listen to you or communicate openly with you as long as she has an OM on the side meeting her ENs.

You need to find out asap. Get back in that place of yours.

I dont think my marriage is going to work at all. Shes refusing to talk to me anymore. Doesn't want to hear what i have to say. I might have an idea now who the affair might be, but i honestly have no proof of anything, and i do not believe it is physical, yet.. I feel trapped and like there is absolutely nothing i can do but wait for her to hand me papers, i hate this completely.

The possible OM is a friend of both of ours who has been in a bad relationship for a while, and recently left his girlfriend, and i just found this out. He has been 'helping' me try to get her to talk to me, but i'm afraid i was shafted in the process.
I went over there yesterday and he was there watching movies with her, shes never shown any sign of attraction to him at all, even after we've been separated, but i think he has been giving her advice that has been sabotaging our relationship now.

Do you think that it is too late?
What can i do now that she will not talk to me at all?
She has said she does not want me around the house at all and shes suggested calling the poliece if i do.

Please, I want my marriage to work, and I am so afraid that it will not now. She says she plans to file as soon as she has the money to. She seems to have a complete disregard of my feelings at all, and has said 'this isn't that emotional for me.'

There's your guy. I'll bet my house payment on it. You have two avenues for spying now - check out both of them. Keep an eye on his place and hers and document when you see them together.

EXPOSE!!! Even if you don't have proof, him being over there with a married woman is proof enough!

EXPOSE to EVERYONE!

And I can pretty much promise you that it is. Sorry

Yup it IS a PA SORRY !! marital is right!

What exactly should i do? I'm not sure what to think. I'm not sure what to do. I can barely believe that she'd want to leave me, let alone that shes having an affair. Should i confront them? I'd blow up...

No don't confront them, they will just deny it...trust me!!

Tell everyone!

Family
friends
co-workers
her family and friends
Church friends
Pastor

Tell everyone that your wife have left because she is having an A with so and so (who ever his name is)

Once you expose start being in plan A

Read this

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1640788&page=1

1) Move back in. It's your place. If she won't let you in, call the cops and have yourself let in. It's your place and she cannot legally get you out.

2) Snoop all you can and cut off all access to this OM. He's the one fooling around with your WW. Get some sort of proof, and expose immediately. I'd also maybe get some "big" friends to confront this OM and get him to leave your WW alone and cut off all contact.

3) If you can't get NC and things don't improve quickly (within 2-3 months), file for D and move on. I don't care how long you've been together. You are young and don't have any kids together and there are PLENTY of better women out there that won't cheat on you after 50 years, much less 11 months of marriage. The last thing you want is for her to pull this again 15 years from now and break up your family when you have children. Is this the ideal person you want mothering your children, teaching them right from wrong?

I agree with JMWC you need to move back in! You helped get that place, move back in when she is not there, and say..

"I helped get this place, its mine just as much it is yours. If you don't like it...THEN YOU LEAVE!"

If you dont have the keys to the place, buy new locks, break in and change them

I think i need more proof before i do anything. Him just being there does not even tell me they're having an affair at all. I dont mean to be an idiot, but how can i get more proof, if they're cheating they'd just do it at our place where i already know they go sometimes.

GET BACK IN YOUR PLACE!!!!

If you want to wait to get more proof that is your choice, we can't make you do anything, just advise.

But seriously you really need to move back in...

You are still married, that is still your place, get it back!!

Are you gunna let her walk all over you while she is cheating and sleeping with another man in your place?

Get some balls and do what is right!

MOVE back in...sorry if I'm yelling, but you really gotta think about this.

she has threatened to leave the state and change her name if i pushed for being in the home.I am affraid that because i have not lived there before they will not recognize it as my home.

It's easier to figure out that your WW is cheating if you actually live with her. That is why she locked you out, so it is harder to catch her. Once home, you can also prevent OM from entering your place. He is not welcome.

About OM, are you bigger than him? More physically intimidating? I would go visit him with a bunch of your friends (to keep you from doing something stupid), get in his face, and tell him he is not welcome having any contact with your WW anymore and he better back off. I would then go to his parents and explain to them that after he broke up with his GF, he and your WW started hanging out more, and now she is being secretive and wants to move out. Tell them you know something is going on and you will be looking for proof and that they should advise their son not to meddle with another man's wife. At his age, parents may have some influence over him.

BFD. Idle threats. What will happen if she leaves the state and change her name? YOU DON'T NEED DOCUMENTATION THAT IT IS YOUR HOME. It is her home and you are married. Therefore, it is YOUR HOME! Besides, just get some documentation and take it to a locksmith to let you in. Then change the locks to a key you have if you can't find the other one. Grow a pair and stand up to your wife.

BTW, you wife has ZERO respect for you because you will just do whatever she tells you to do like a puppy dog. Newsflash. You don't have to do everything she tells you. You can take control instead of ceding everything to her. You being a tough, strong man although pissing her off, would make you much more attractive in her eyes.

Lets think about it this way. Lets assume that it is a PA like you are being told.

Every night you are not in that house they are engaging in SF. That means OM has direct and free access to create that bond with YOUR wife while you are twiddling your thumbs at your moms house.

GET BACK IN THE HOUSE TODAY.

Will she be POed, yes. So what. You will be denying OM secret access to your wife, that should be a fair trade for you.

Call her bluff.

If things continue on like they are now, your marriage is over.

If you peacefully move back to your home and start trying to win her affections back, and she actually makes good on this threat, then your marriage is still over, but at least you will respect yourself better!! You will be more equipped to deal with the loss of the marriage.

OR, if you peacefully move back, you might win her back to a marriage that is better than ever before.

You can roll over and do nothing because she might end it all. But she's already ended it all. How much worse can it get? And if you do nothing, you will hate yourself for not trying.

Lets think about this SOME MORE shall we??

WHEN you move back in, the worst is that she will change her name and move out of state??..so what? Would you rather stay at your parents house while she is having sex with your friend in YOUR BED!!?

Or would you rather move back in take control of your marriage and fix anything that is left?

Chances are she wont move out of state...she will move in with the guy she is sleeping with...and that my friend will be enough proof that SHE IS CHEATING!!!!!!!!!!!

DO us all a big favor, and get in that house like...YESTERDAY!!

Talk to a lawyer so you can find out your fears are unfounded. You'll be able to do a lot more when you're not afraid. Unless this home was purchased in her name, it's yours, too.

Do you own the home outright, or are you paying a mortgage?

And, again, call her bluff!

It is a trailer home, its in her name, and there is a lease on the lot, also in her name.

stev,

There are people here who have recovered healthy marriages full of romantic love from far worse than this. Just so you know.

Nobody would blame you for throwing in the towel if she is in adultery, especially this early in marriage. In fact, many of us here could provide you some great support if that's what you want to do.

But you should know that there are people who have come back from worse than this, better than ever.


It probably is physical, but even if not, it really makes less of a difference than you might think. Most people recognize that a married woman dating another man is wrong, icky, and a betrayal of her husband.


No, it is not too late. Listen to the fine advice you will get here, and start reading up on everything you can so you will know how to use the tools here. Read the Basic Concepts, read the Q&A columns about infidelity, and read about Plan A and Plan B.


All of this stuff is typical for a woman doing this, and it can all be overcome.

Call her bluffs. Don't let her bully you into NOT trying to save the marriage.

The police can't steal YOUR home, which YOU PAID for.

She won't file for divorce, and even if she does, you can still recover. Filing is not final.

There's an alien in her that loves her adultery and will do everything possible to keep it, including making threats to you that she is too scared to ever carry out.

Are you paying for it? Did you put any money into it?

The thing about him is, he is living with his parents right now.

Everyone in my family keeps telling me just give her space, and to stop torturing myself over it.

How much financial loss are we talking about if you lose this?

It's about winning her, not the home, right?

If you lose her, courts can sort it out and make sure you get half. If you win her, you get it all.

Your family doesn't know $hit because they probably haven't been through this. Giving her more "space" means giving the affair more "space." Go over to OM's parents house and tell them he needs to stay away from your WW.

Then go back into YOUR HOUSE. It is marital property. If she owns it, and you are married. You own it. Quit being a pansy and making excuses to avoid conflict.

OK so you dont want to fix the Marriage? Then just file for Divorce and get this over with.

Found this in regards to martial assests in Michigan (I thought you said you were in MI)

"The court looks at property as marital or separate assets. Byington v. Byington, 224 Mich. 103, 568 N.W.2d 141 (1997); Reeves v. Reeves, 226 Mich. App. 490, 575 N.W.2d 1 (1997). Assets that are accumulated during a period of cohabitation before the marriage are not marital property. Marital property is that property accumulated through the joint efforts of the parties during the marriage. Leverich v. Leverich, 340 Mich. 133, 64 N.W.2d 567 (1954). It includes any assets earned up to the date of judgment (even if received after judgment). Byington, supra."

MOVE BACK IN NOW!!!!!

You've read the basic concepts, right? You saw how the love bank works, with deposits and withdrawals?

If you give her space, and you guys stop making deposits, what happens to her feelings of love for you? What happens to your feelings of love for her?


Yes, it would be wonderful if we could just not feel bad when people hurt us. That would be great advice if we could just change the way we feel.

But the truth is, feelings follow actions.

If you try to save your marriage and succeed, how are you going to feel?

If you try and fail, how are you going to feel?

If you don't try at all, how will you feel?

What's your decision steve? Are you going to sit there and watch your marriage fall apart?

or

Are you going to do something NOW, to change it and start doing something about it?

The first thing you need to do is move home. Get your butt back in there. After that, start snooping. Put a keylogger on the computer that she uses. That will get you info on her emails. Check her Facebook account for postings between them if she has one. Buy a VAR (voice-activated recorder) and put it in a hidden place in her car. Check her text messages and cell phone activity on the cell phone bill. Check any bank statements for unusual purchases. Check the car for any unusual items. I'm sorry to be blunt, but look for condoms/condom wrappers/soiled panties under the seats. Same goes for (sorry again) under the bed and in the bathroom wastebasket.

That should get you started.

And I've got to add, stev - this is war. You are in a war for your M. What I've told you to do may sound extreme. Trust me, it is not. You are not invading her privacy. You are invading her secrecy, which she has no right to have and withhold from you.

After you've confirmed the A, you need to be ready to expose it to the world at large - that's if you wish to kill the A, of course. I'm assuming you do. We'll help you with exposure after you've confirmed the A.

Do not tell her about this site. Do not threaten her by saying you're going to tell anyone about the A. It will drive the A underground and make it harder to kill. Come here first with your confirmation. This is critical.

Don't listen to anything she says. If she says the sun came up this morning, verify it. Waywards are notorious liars.

Consider hiring a private investigator.

Please listen! If you have any hope of saving this, please do what you are asked.

And one more please: get tested for STDs. Your regular doctor can do it; they have heard it all!