Thank you for taking the time and effort to read this letter. I am writing this in hopes that your BS has brought you here in order that you might understand you are not alone in your thoughts and feelings. It is intended to give you a measure of comfort and hope that you can feel safe as you come out the fog that has enveloped you so tightly over the past weeks, months, or years.
I do not know m any of you by name, nor do I know of all the details or circumstances surrounding your life, or your affair(s). What I do know is that we share two very important things in our lives and makes us somewhat connected as a WS. I am hoping that I can help you come back to the light, so that you can come back to the light that has, for so long, shielded you with that dense fog you may still be in.
The first thing that we share is the love of a person that totally, completely, and unconditionally stand by our side. Through thick and thin, for better or worse, in our darkest hours, we have someone that has always believed in us, and still does. They have put up with our lies, our anger, our accusations, and maybe in some cases verbal and/or physical abusiveness. They have watched us trash us the things they believed in more than anything in the world...our marriage, our vows, our trust and our love. In spite of it all, they see in us their hopes, their dreams, and their futures. They can't, nor do they want to, see themselves without us for the rest of their lives. They accept our imperfections and our infidelity as we have strayed from that which we know is wrong. They have continued to believe in us and want to help us right the ship and stay the course. They are willing to forgive us, grant us our mistakes, and come home to rebuild that life and make it better. They know they are not perfect, as well.
They know they have made mistakes. They need us to open up, talk to them and give them answers so that they can learn, heal, and help repair the damage. They will accept their responsibility in these things. Can you?
We, most of us, alsoe have children that look at us, and see only the love of a Mom or a Dad. They don't see us as imperfect, scared, or angry. They see us as a shelter, a safe haven where they can laugh, cry, hurt, be silly or serious, and tell us their fears or fantasies. We are their safety net when they fall. They look to us for answers in life, no matter how big or small the answers are. Our life changed, no matter much we didn't want it to when we helped create that life. We owe our children the best chance to learn from us. We owe them our unconditional, total, and complete love, so that they can start on the journey with as few bumps and bruises as possible. They look to you for truth in their lives. To deny them that chance, is a travesty.
You took an oath, in your heart and mind, to protect and defend and teach YOUR child, as soon as they were created. So, you see, you have people in your life that believe in you, love you, accept you, want you, need you, cherish you, and the list goes on and on.
I know for a fact, that many of you, when with the OP, badmouth your spouse. You tell the OP how they do all the right things, fill you up, make you feel alive, do all the things your spouse does not, or used to do. You tell this person they are everything you ever wanted. They arouse you, they make you happy...interesting how you told your spouse that at one time too. And, the truth is, if you were to search your heart, you are not letting them do that now. They want to, they beg you to let them try...you justify your A, by telling them "I just don't feel that for you anymore", "I don't know if I want to be married anymore", "I dont know what I want", and a myriad of other flimsy reasons and excuses to buy time to spend with the OP. You give justifications that are so superficial they can't hold water.
We even search our minds to think of everything that our spouse ever did, no matter how insignificant, how long ago it was, in order to make us feel better about cheating. We can find any reason to blame our spouse for US deciding and making a conscious choice to cheat and find a reason to say it is ok.
What we should be doing is finding every reason for our BS to forgive us. We should be finding every reason to stay together, to come home, to make it right, to be a family...loving and supportive, forgiving and trusting. And you know what? Those reasons are there...everyday...the smile, the laugh, the tears, the love....they are there each and everyday!! Just look!!!
The second thing we share is the fact that we are all weak!! I know full well the pain, anger, frustration, fear, embarrassment, passion, fun, laughter, love, fear, and all the rest of the wide range of emotions of having an A.
I know what is like to have that OP fill up your senses...so full and so fast you wonder how you ever made it without them. The sex is great, the passion is overwhelming, you can't wait to see them, touch them, hear them...all the while drifting further and further from your marriage...lost in the fog. NO matter how we justify it, that other person...is a cheater, as well. They know we are married and they choose to cheat with us. And in many cases, probably have before, and have told the other person they are with, all the same, exact things they tell us. "You are my soulmate" "you are the only one for me" etc etc. We have heard em all and said em all. We have been told they can make us happy "for the rest of our lives". WE have been so blinded by it all, that we give up family and friends we have had for years, in order for this OP to feel safe with us and convince them how we feel. We take all the energies that we don't use at home, and give them to someone "new". We spend money, time, and energy to build something with someone exciting, instead of spending that with someone that knows us and truly loves us.
You see, the truth is, that we, both members of the affair, are very good at one thing....telling each other exactly what we want to hear. We put together elaborate speeches, write poetry, find mushy cards, send the "perfect" gifts, say the right things...all for this other person. Both of us continue to hone our "cheating" skills to the point of perfection. What ever happened to doing that to your spouse, instead of leaving them at the side of the road with a flat tire? We have derailed their entire life and emotionally checked out...in order to make us feel better about the affair. That simply isn't right. We took years to build something. We may have taken several years to weaken the foundation of it. But in one simple night of lust, and that is what it is, lust, we tried to destroy it. If we truly "loved" this person, if we truly believed what we were doing is right, true, and good, there would be no indecision on our part. There would be no hesitancy at all.
The bottom line is that, you can trust the person you are cheating with less than you can trust yourself. It is a proven fact that only 25% of all affairs ever make it. Deep down in your heart, you still love your spouse, and you know it. You don't want to give up the excitement and passion you have found. The truth is that your marriage will never again go back to what it was. The blind faith in each other is gone....it is replaced with doubt and fear. The wonderful thing is that you now have a chance to "rediscover" your spouse, your marriage, and your family.
It is not as hard as you may think, but will take some dedication on your part. But the beauty of the whole thing is you will be stronger and more in love than you ever thought you could be. You create new memories, new routines, a new life. You re-commit, reinvest your time and energies in that which truly loves you.
The truth is most affairs end when the OP either gets what they thought they needed from you, and even more of them end when the OP finds another WS. Oddly enough, you weren't enough for them either. In the end you are left with no loving spouse, no children, no family, no friends.....and your OP that was so steadfastly dedicated to you is off romping with "the love of their life".
I know from whence I speak, my friends. I know of the pain, the sorrow, the hurt, the look in my childrens eyes when I left the house. I hear the sounds of my W crying, begging, pleading, and hurting. I now see what a fool I was.
I now spend everyday, more happy than I ever thought I could be. If the world were to end tomorrow, she would know I loved her as no other. No, she won't ever forget about the A, and along the way, there will be things that will trigger her mind, but, she has forgiven. You need to talk to your spouse to help them. YOU are the only one that can help them. They need you, much more now than ever before. You have to swallow that pride of yours, for them to heal. You have to open your life up to them, and hide nothing. You have to make it about them. The affair was making it about you, so now you owe it to them, no matter how embarrassed you are, no matter how much you don't wnat to talk about it, to make it about them. Their piece of mind, their feelings are all that matter.
They know, from being here, what they need to do in order to help meet your needs. It is now up to you, to learn what you need to do in order to meet theirs. And make no mistake about it, it will be hard work, but it is oh so worth it!! This person you married, is willing to work with you in order to show you the love you deserve!!
Are you willing to work to show them how much you truly love them??
By being here, at Marriage Builders, they have shown that they are willing to adopt the principles that it takes to put their marriage back together. They have pledged their love, and even their support, to your recovery, as well as theirs. They have accepted the crumbs you have offered them, while knowing full well you were at the buffet with the other person in your life.
You have one of the strongest, most committed, most wonderful, loving, and caring people in the world on your side. Don't expect them not be angry from time to time. Don't expect them to be perfect, let you off the hook, and not talk about it with you. They need and want to understand you and all the things surrounding what happened. It is part of the healing process.
What you can expect is love, honesty, and the rebuilding of your marriage.
They know what it takes to make things work now. They also know that they, as well as you, have to be stronger than ever before in their life, if this is going to work. That is why they are still here...they understand.
They even know, that you may backslide in the beginning, but are willing to deal with that, in order to preserve and protect that which they believe in ......YOU. I implore you, WS, burn off the fog. See the sand that is your foundation for the affair. There is no solid basis for this relationship..it is all smoke and mirrors that reflects this "love" you have found. Run, do not walk, back home and give your marriage all the energy, gifts, poems, cards, and love that you have given to the affair. The results are remarkable. But you have to be willing to be honest with yourself, first of all. You have to admit there is a problem, and you have to be willing to fix it, with your spouse, a counselor, whatever or whoever it takes to fix it. You have to be willing to want to be there in mind, body, and spirit. You will find a love more wonderful than anything you knew before.
I hope this helps, in some way, to show you what life can be after an affair. I know that I am blessed with the most wonderful person. I was given the opportunity to feel what life was like without her, and it was not what I wanted. I found the answers I sought...I found them both here, and in her arms. I can only hope, that in some small way, you find the same thing, and that I helped the fog to lift. If you ever wish to talk to someone who understands what we WS go through, then feel free to write *edit* There is a path back home. You need only choose it! Keep the faith!
*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*
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This was written by long-ago poster, Trueheart. A classic.
When a parent has an affair what lessons are being taught to the children? What rules of life are being learned? Julie was a happy-go-lucky eight-year old. She was at the top of her 3rd grade class, loved playing with her friends, riding her bike, and drawing. Her parents loved her and she loved them.
One day after school mom introduced Julie to two girls who were close to Julie's age. Mom said that she was taking care of them for a friend named Josh. Julie enjoyed playing with the girls and looked forward to them coming again.
In fact they would come over quite often with their dad. But it was only when Julie's dad was out of town. Sometimes Josh stayed late -- long after Julie had gone to sleep.
One day dad came home from his trip. As he was hugging Julie he asked, "How is my princess? What did you do while I was away?" Julie started telling him about the new puppy that "Uncle Josh" brought to the house. Dad knew that mom had been helping someone with child care, but when he heard it was "Uncle Josh" he became a little suspicious.
"How often do you see Uncle Josh?" he asked. With a smile Julie said, "Oh, he comes over every day to help mom when you're gone." Mom looked at Julie with a stern face. But Julie didn't understand why she was becoming upset. Her dad started asking her mom questions and their voices became louder and louder. Julie was sent to her room.
As Julie listened outside, her door she heard her mom say, "Josh is just a friend. Aren't I allowed to have friends. Why do you have to be so jealous? Don't you trust me?" Julie finally heard her mom say that she would never see Josh again if that's what her dad really wanted.
After a couple days, mom and dad started talking to each other and mom and dad seemed happy again. They all returned to their routine of life and Julie started to forget about that horrible night.
But the next time dad went on a trip, mom did not keep her promise. She told Julie that the babysitter will be taking care of her that night. But mom wouldn't tell Julie where she was going. As mom left the house she saw Josh help mom into his car. "Why is mom seeing Josh when she promised never to see him again?" Julie asked herself.
When dad returned, mom lied to him. When he asked her if she had seen Josh while he was gone she said, "No." But dad pursued the subject and continued to ask her what she did. Finally she said, "I can't take this invasion of privacy" and that her life was "none of his business." She got up, started to pack her suitcase and gave Julie a kiss with the promise to see her tomorrow. She left that night leaving Julie feeling abandoned by her mother.
Julie didn't understand what had happened. She thought it was her fault -- maybe she had done something to make mom leave and cause this terrible punishment. She cried inconsolably. Dad tried to soothe Julie but nothing helped. She cried herself to sleep.
The next morning Julie went to school but did not say a word. Her teacher asked what was wrong, but Julie wouldn't respond. Her eyes just filled with tears.
When Julie saw her mom she cried and pleaded for her to come home. Julie promised to clean her room every day and wash and dry the dishes. But nothing worked. Mom didn't come home.
After a month mom changed her mind. Julie was so excited when she heard the good news. But her happiness turned to despair when she was told that her mom had forced her dad to move away so she could come home.
Julie had come to trust and depend on her dad in the last month and appreciated him more than she ever had in the past. Now she was about to lose a parent she loved and trusted all over again.
These experiences were only the beginning for Julie. In the months to come mom and dad would unknowingly teach Julie more lessons about life.
Children learn from their parents. In fact parents are the most influential guides in a child's life. Many will see their mannerisms and phrases being used by their child. But parents are more than models for mannerisms and phrases. They are models for crucial aspects of life: a work ethic, intimate relationships, friendships, domestic skills, communication, and problem-solving skills. Lessons about life are being taught when a parent has an affair -- lessons that they usually don't want their child to learn.
The first lesson a child learns is,
How to deal with emotional pain. Children whose parents are experiencing marital conflict feel many emotions -- guilt, confusion, loneliness, sadness, fear, worry, abandonment, and many other excruciating feelings. When a child is losing the security base of a strong marriage they are bombarded with pain.
So how is a child supposed to soothe their pain and the feeling of helplessness? And how does a child gain control in an uncontrollable situation? Out of the need to defend against these uncomfortable feelings comes a new rule about life --
If a problem arises it is better to deny that there is a problem than to face it and feel the pain. Julie came to believe this rule. She would think,
"This is how married people lived. Nothing was wrong about this situation. There really isn't a problem here. Just look the other way." A child can defend themselves from the bombardment of emotional pain through the defenses of denial and justification.
But this new rule did not help teach Julie how to solve crucial problems that would face her later in life. Instead of facing and solving those problems, she would deny their very existence and look the other way as it would grow and eventually overwhelm her.
Julie was also being taught a second lesson,
How to lie. In order to maintain a secret second life, wayward spouses need to keep up the deceit. After Julie started living with her mom, she was asked not to talk to dad about Josh. She was further instructed to tell dad that she hadn't seen him. Mom explained that it is better that dad just doesn't know "because we don't want to make him upset." Julie remembered how upset dad was when he found out about Josh. She didn't want him to get angry at mom. So with this newly learned habit of lying for mom, came a second rule about life --
Lying is allowed if it spares another from pain or spares yourself from punishment. Another rule from this lesson on deceit is that
Lying is allowed when it protects your privacy. Everyone has a right to privacy in their life, even if it involves hurting people behind their back. Julie was told over and over that it was not dad's business to know what mom does. This was meant to justify the fact that mom was lying to dad. Although Julie's mom was a very honest and open person before the affair, mom became quite an expert at deceit and privacy. Julie was watching her model every step of the way.
A third crucial lesson is,
How to be thoughtless -- doing what you please regardless of how it affects other people. Julie would learn how to take advantage of her friends and family when there was something in it for her. She would learn how to disregard others' suffering because she had a right to enjoy life to the fullest. All wayward spouses hurt the people they care about the most. Wayward spouses rationalize that they had to look out for themselves which is why they developed the relationship outside of their marriage in the first place. Their actions seem to benefit themselves in the short term, but it has disastrous effects on members of their family.
Marital discord is hard enough on children. It undermines the basic security needed for them to learn and grow. But to add infidelity to a troubled marriage turns a problem into a disaster. Parents who have an affair are teaching their children very important rules that are likely to be followed for the rest of their lives. It ultimately not only undermines their marital relationships but it also seriously hurts their own chances for success in most other areas of life.
Parents have a responsibility to teach their children the importance of honesty and the importance of thoughtfulness -- considering other people's feeling when decisions are being made. To do otherwise is not only terribly irresponsible, but may tend to perpetuate the learning of these rules of deceit and thoughtlessness for generations to come.
But even after the mistake of an affair, it is possible to make a conscious choice to change the disastrous consequences. I have counseled many parents who could see what they were teaching their children by having an affair. It motivated them to end the affair and explain to their children how wrong they had been. Although it was extremely difficult and very humbling, they were not only able to save their marriage, but also able to correct the lessons they had taught their children.
They followed a step-by-step guide that is now available in the book I wrote with Dr. Harley, "Surviving an Affair" (Harley/Chalmers, Revell, 1998). They first took extraordinary precautions to separate from their lover. Then, with their spouse, they followed the Four Rules that Guide Marital Recovery. As they followed this plan and modeled new behaviors they started to teach new lessons:
How to solve conflict through negotiation; How to be open and honest about every part of life; How to protect their spouse from their own thoughtless behaviors; and How to be an expert at caring for their spouse. A person involved in an affair, whether is it secret or not, must take a hard look at the messages they are sending their children. Are they s eeing mom and dad living secret lives where privacy and lying are the norm, making choices that are thoughtless to their spouse, and accepting infidelity because it looks out for #1? Or are they seeing mom and dad spending time to love and care for each other, protecting each other from painful behaviors, being honest, working out conflicts together, and modeling faithfulness because it protects loved ones?
What lessons are you teaching your children? Are you protecting your marriage from infidelity? Are you making sure that your children will not learn the unwanted lessons of denial, deceit, and disregard for others?
Children can learn unwanted lessons from an unfaithful parent. But these lessons can be changed. A wayward spouse can decide to model new behaviors and teach new lessons. Think about it -- it could be the greatest gift you will ever give to your children.
Dr. Chalmers is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and the co-author of "Surviving an Affair" (Harley/Chalmers, Revell, 1998).
I discovered my husband's affair in May. He was very repentant, ended it and has been working very hard on our marriage ever since. I was not familiar with Marriage Builders at the time and I just followed my instincts. I suppose we are in recovery.
But our communication skills are almost non-existent. We only talk about things that are "safe." My husband’s idea of dealing with his affair is to put it behind us. I need to talk about it to heal. I am still having nightmares and sleeping little. I know nothing about this woman, including her name. He has refused to give me the information because he feels it is over so what difference would it make now. He has agreed to counseling but has been dragging his feet.
Our communication skills are so poor that I can't even bring up his affair for fear of "rocking the boat." He will not read any books or discuss the reasons for his affair with me. I am terrified it will happen again.
We went for a few counseling sessions over a year ago (before affair, communication issues) and it was a disaster. It was so much psycho-babble that neither of us could stand it. Where should we go from here?
Please advise.
K. R.
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Dear K. R.,
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.
I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.
Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
Hello unfaithful LURKERS. If you are the "other person" in someone else's marriage .... This is for you.
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The Lover's Perspective on Infidelity
Letter #2 Dear Dr. Harley,
As I read your suggestions regarding affairs, I don't see any compassion for the lover. You suggest that the lover never be seen again, to just get out of the picture.
I have built a relationship with a man over a period of 10 years and the last 3 have been sexual. I want to spend the rest of my life with him, because being in love is such a beautiful experience, something I may never experience with anyone else.
I believe he is a gift from God. In all of its wrongness, there was so much right. I don't believe something so beautiful, could not have been a gift from above. But he does love two women, and we can't live in this triangle forever. He has chosen to try and make it right at home, and I cannot prevent him from trying. But we work together and neither of us can leave town. There's no chance of us escaping that way. And I can't stop loving him.
How can the lover stop this triangle? Tell me that even if he divorced his wife and we were to get together, it wouldn't work because it was built on such an ugly foundation. Ugh! How can two people with eyes wide open, be so blind?
S.B. Dear S.B.,
One of the most destructive and painful acts that one human can do to another is to have an affair with his or her spouse. Most women would rather be gang raped than to have another woman have sex with their husbands. Most men would rather have their arms cut off than have their wives in someone else's arms. That's why I am so much opposed to affairs, and why I try so hard to help couples prevent them.
People try to justify their behavior by creating a belief system that supports it. In your case, you try to believe that God had something to do with your affair. I've heard it expressed many times, but it can't possibly be true. God would never give you someone else's husband, because to do so would create so much pain for his wife and children.
Married men are out of bounds for you. You must find love and happiness among those who are not married because to do otherwise is the most cruel and self-centered thing you can do to a woman and her children. It may have been bliss for you, but it was a nightmare for your lover's wife.
You are right when you suggest that, even if he divorced his wife and married you, the relationship would not work. Most affairs don't end in marriage, and most of those that do, end in divorce. Affairs are definitely not the way to find a life partner.
My advice is for you to leave the job where you work with your lover. The longer you stay, the longer you will feel depressed and lonely if he reconciles with his wife. I know that you want to stay, out of hope that you and he can renew your affair. But that hope is terribly misguided.
You feel that you may never experience the love you have with anyone else. The love your developed with your co-worker grew out of a long friendship, and you may be feeling that you are running out of time. But not all great relationships take 10 years to develop, and the experience you have can shorten that time considerably. What is most important is your recognition of how much you need a man that meets certain emotional needs. When you find that unmarried man, you will not only find fulfillment in your life, but most importantly, your happiness will not be the cause of someone else's sorrow.
(I received the following letter from S.B. as her response to my answer)
Dear Dr. Harley,
I know married men are out of bounds for me, I wasn't looking for such a relationship when this started. I also know this was destructive and painful to his wife and children. I never said it was right. You yourself wrote that people get into this foolish act because their needs are unmet.
But I do believe that God brought this man into my life and me into his. Perhaps it was to tell us to never do anything like it again, and to show us what we were missing and what steps we need to take to get on a right track.
Guess what? Sin is NEVER a "gift from God".
Can you see the BIG LIE she is telling herself?
Can you recognize the whopping sense of ENTITLEMENT she has? She thinks it is OK to help herself to another woman's husband.
Adultery is wrong. You know it is wrong. Adultery is never the right thing to do. Adultery is never a gift from God.
If YOU are the OTHER woman, or the OTHER man ..... Use a crow-bar and pry yourself OUT of where you never belonged.
unfaithful LURKERS .... Sometimes we hear you say....
"We never meant to fall in love. It just happened."
Well, THIS is simply not true. There are steps and choices along the way.
Here is a road map to destruction.
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Anatomy of Adultery 15 Steps of Unfaithfulness
How does adultery "happen?" People don't just decide one day to hop in bed and be unfaithful to their spouse. Adultery is the culminating act of a dozen or more tiny steps of unfaithfulness. Each step in itself does not seem that serious or much beyond the previous step. Satan draws a person into adultery one tiny step at a time. And he does this over time so that our conscience is gradually seared. This makes it easier to take "just one more step" thinking such a tiny step won't hurt us.
The following "15 steps" which analyze how adultery "happens" are based on scores of interviews, counseling, and correspondence with church folk who fell into unfaithfulness. Our question: "How did this happen... what were the tiny steps which led to this mess?" While the order varied from case to case, the following is the general progression which surfaced in most incidents. This is not some sort of theoretical list. These are the actual steps taken by scores of church people who wound up committing adultery and regretting it later. Some of these people sobbed deeply as they shared, hoping that their own pain and failure might save other marriages. This information comes to you at great expense.
This chapter doesn't have any preaching or analysis... that is left to you. Here we offer you cold word-for-word quotes. You and your Sunday School class can draw out the lessons. How did these lives get ruined? How does it start?
1. Sharing Common Interests. "We just had so much in common, it was uncanny."
"She and I both enjoyed music, and we were attracted to each other."
"He was so spiritually-minded... I'd been looking for someone to share my spiritual struggles with."
"We both loved horses, and started riding together."
"We both shared a burden for the church and especially children's work."
"She was the first woman I'd ever met who liked the outdoors, even hunting and fishing -- I was fascinated!"
2. Mentally comparing with my mate. "My husband wasn't interested much in spiritual things, but this man knew so much about the Bible."
"She was slim, attractive, and dressed sharp -- quite a difference from my wife who didn't take care of herself much at that time."
"She was so understanding and would listen to me and my hurts -- my wife was always so busy and rushed that we didn't have the time to talk.
"My husband just would never communicate -- he'd come home from work and just sit there watching TV. I finally gave up on him. Then this man came along who was worlds apart from my husband -- he was gentile, loved to talk, and would just share little things about his life with me."
3. Meeting emotional needs. "He understood how I was feeling and offered me the empathy I was hungering for."
"She was there when I needed her."
"My ego was so starved for affirmation that I would have taken it from anyone -- I guess that's what started the whole thing."
"No one had ever really believed in me until he came along. He encouraged me, inspired me, and believed so deeply in what I could become."
"My wife was busy with the kids and not at all involved with my work. This girl admired me and treated me like I was really somebody. It felt so good."
4. Looking forward to being together. "I used to dread going to work, but after we started our friendship, I would wake up thinking of how I would see him later that day... it seemed to make getting up easier."
"I would think of being with her the whole time I was driving to work."
"I found myself thinking of him as I got dressed each morning, wondering how he would like a certain outfit or perfume."
"I looked forward to choir practice every week because I knew he would be there."
"Every time I drove by her house I would think of her and how we'd see each other that Sunday."
5. Tinges of dishonesty with my mate. "When my wife would ask if she was with the group I'd pretend I couldn't remember... right there I started building a wall between us."
"I would act like I was going to practice with our ensemble, but actually I was practicing a duet with him."
"Once my wife asked about her, but I denied everything, after all, we hadn't done anything wrong yet. Now I see that this was one of those exit points where I could have come clean and got off the road I was speeding down."
"Whenever we got together as couples I would act like I didn't care about him, and afterward I would even criticize him to my husband. I guess I was trying to hide my real feelings from my husband."
6. Flirting and teasing. "I could tell from the way she looked at me. She would gaze directly into my eyes, then furtively glance down my body then back into my eyes again -- I knew then that she was interested in more than my friendship. But, I was so flattered by her interest that I couldn't escape."
"Then we started teasing each other, often with double-meaning kind of things. Sometimes we'd tease each other even when we were together as two couples. It seemed innocent enough at first, but more and more we knew it really did mean something to us."
"We would laugh and talk about how it seemed like we were "made for each other" so much. Then we'd tease each other about what kind of husband or wife the other one would have been if we'd married each other."
"He had those killer eyes. When he'd look at me in that "special way" I would just melt. It was hopeless fighting my urges -- he had me."
7. Talking about personal matters. "We would talk about things -- not big things, just little things which he cared about, or I was worried about."
"We'd meet together for coffee before church and just talk together."
"I was having problems with my son and she seemed to understand the whole situation so much better than anyone else I talked with. I'd tell her about the most recent blow-up and she would understand so well. We just became really deep friends -- almost soul-mates. That's what's so weird about all this -- we never intended for it to go this far."
"I had lost my Dad just before we got to know each other and he had lost his mother a few years earlier. He seemed to understand exactly what I was going through and we would talk for hours about how each of us felt."
"I was so lonely since my husband died and hungry for someone to share life with. Then he began to call just because he cared. I loved hearing his caring voice at the other end of the line, even though I knew he was married."
"We spent so much time together at work that I swear she knew more about me than my wife ever did -- or even cared to know."
8. Minor yet arousing touch, squeeze, or hug. "He never touched me for months. Then one night after working late, we were walking toward the door when he said 'You're so special, thanks for all you do..." then he turned and hugged me tenderly, just for a second. I loved how I felt for that moment so much that I began to replay it over and over again in my mind like a videotape. Now I know that I should have stopped it all right then. I never intended to ruin my family like this."
"She was always hanging around our house and was my wife's best friend. Often she would stay late to watch TV, even after my wife went to bed. She would sit beside me on the couch and I was drawn to her like the song says... like a moth to the flame."
"He would often pat me on the shoulder -- you know, in appreciation for a good job I'd done. But I knew it meant more than that."
"The first time she touched me was when we were doing registration together. We were sitting beside each other. I'd say something cute or funny and she would giggle, then under the table she'd squeeze the top of my leg with her hand. That was really exciting to me."
"Every time she shook hands with me at the door she seemed to linger, sort of holding my hand more than shaking it. No one else would notice, but I knew there was more to her touch than appeared to the eyes. She knew too."
9. Special notes or gifts. "He would write these little encouraging notes and leave them in my desk, pocketbook, or taped to my computer. They didn't say anything which could be traced. If anyone found them they wouldn't suspect anything. But we both knew what was going on, we just didn't want to stop yet."
"I would sometimes call him and leave a short message on his answering machine. He would leave little notes in my Bible."
"He would buy me a little gift -- not that expensive, but it always showed he had taken extra thought to get exactly what I liked. Of course everyone else thought he was just being a good boss."
"She started leaving unsigned notes to me in my desk sharing her feelings for me. It scared me at first, because I thought someone would find one. But after a while I found myself looking forward to the next one, even though I knew the risk."
10. Inventing excuses to call or meet. "I started figuring out ways I could drop off something at her house when her husband was gone. He and I knew each other and I would always return borrowed tools in the afternoon when I knew she'd be there alone."
"I would wait until the end of the workday then I'd call him just before closing time about something I'd made up as a 'business question' and we'd talk."
"The more entangled we got, the more I planned times where he and I could practice together. We started meeting more often."
"She started arranging her schedule so that her husband dropped her off at committee meetings. I would hang around and offer to take her home, acting with as much nonchalance as I could muster up."
11. Arranging secret meetings. "By now we both were so far gone that we started meeting secretly at the mall parking lot. It know now how foolish this was, but I was driven by something other than good sense at that time."
"We started arranging to work evenings on the same nights, then we would leave early and meet each other in the dark parking lot."
"I started making sure he knew my travel schedule so we could attend the same conferences. We still weren't involved physically at that time, but there was such excitement and romance to it all... even the secrecy seemed to make it more exciting."
"She would sometimes call me just before lunch and we'd sneak through a drive-up together, and then spend the rest of my lunch hour talking quietly to each other."
12. Deceit and cover ups. "Once we were meeting secretly I had to invent all kinds of stories about where I'd been to satisfy my wife. By now I had built a towering wall of dishonesty between us."
"Pretty soon my whole life was full of lies. I'd lie about where I was going, where I'd been, and who I'd been with. The more suspicious my husband got, the better liar I became. But he knew something was going on. It's hard to lie without people suspecting it."
"I joined several groups so that I would have an excuse to be away in the evenings."
"She would ask when I'd gotten off work. I'd simply lie about it, and she never knew what hit her. How can I ever regain her trust now?"
"We agreed that if anyone saw us driving around we would both tell the same story: that my car wouldn't start, he stopped to help, an we were going together to get a new fuse to replace the broken one he'd discovered."
"By now my whole life was a lie, so I began telling them regularly to cover up our little meetings."
13. Kissing and embracing. "The whole thing seemed so exciting by now. I was such a fool. We were meeting secretly and both of us were fearful of being caught. But that only seemed to increase our common ground. When we'd meet, we would embrace as if we'd not been together for years -- like in the movies when someone comes home from the war."
"Once we started meeting secretly the end came fast. We kissed and hugged like two teenagers going parking for their first time."
"It just felt so good to be hugged and loved by somebody who really cared about me."
14. Petting and high indiscretion. "At this point my glands took over. I forgot reason altogether and was willing to risk everything for more."
"It was like I was a teenager again -- going too far, then repenting and promising to do better; then just as quick I was hungrily seeking more sin."
"When my husband and I were dating we struggled with 'how far to go.' Well, here I was again struggling over the same issue. Friendship with this guy didn't seem so wrong. But now were we're going further than I ever intended. But, I felt curiously justified going exactly as far as I had with my husband when had been dating. In a way, I think some of my resentment against my husband's constant pressure on me started coming out. I'm not saying that it wasn't wrong. Just that I kind of felt justified."
"At about this time I began fooling myself into thinking I was heroic for not going "all the way." That's what I wanted to do. But by doing "everything but" I fooled myself into thinking I was successfully resisting temptation. What I didn't realize was that, not only was what I was doing wrong, but that eventually I would take the next step. It's just not possible to freeze a relationship -- you have to go ahead with it, or break it off totally."
15. Sexual intercourse. "Soon I quit resisting and was swept into outright adultery."
"One thing led to another and finally we ended up in bed with each other."
"Though we never intended it to go that far, we eventually went all the way and had sex."
"One night we couldn't seem to stop ourselves (at least we didn't want to) so I completed my journey of unfaithfulness to my husband -- I had sex with this man."
To the LURKING OW who thinks she will "be with" a married man ..... Someday .... If only his wife or his kids did not stand in the way of your ..... "love" ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't (doesn't) have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you really are or really need (or whatever) - and he's the first person to really do that, or the first one in a long time, now isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, have fun with and just relax and be yourself, isn't it? And he can lean on you!
All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for lately and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable.
He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for (even if you didn't know you were looking), because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you.
He's really sincere this time.
He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right?
Not with you. You're special. You can fix him. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his ****** with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you. You can save him. So what when he had his problems he used her for a while, with you he will be different, you're special.
He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women.
That doesn't mean that he'll be in turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?
So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.
So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 3 (or four) decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.
And those stories of how his wife has emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too!
If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.
Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance".
It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.
He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.
So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.
Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.
Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with (his wife, or whoever). He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.
He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history of pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.
The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now thinks he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU. This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.
Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it, or whoever), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.
And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU.
He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.
He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.
It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbecoming when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times and threw things! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM.
Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.
And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.
And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you.
He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. If he breaks his word, it won't be his fault, someone else drove him to do it.
With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omit the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!
And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way?
So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.
And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandoned her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.
And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.
And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.
He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.
You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?
And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.
But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.
He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.
You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.
YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play head games anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old Kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his ****** together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.
He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.
You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You say the words "My MM" ..... Instead of telling yourself the truth. MM is not yours. He is another woman's husband.
Unfaithful LURKERS ..... Not sure how to end the insanity that has become your life? Think you need "closure" with the adultery partner?
Listen to what Dr Harley has to say .....
Quote
How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.
Whenever I look at the feature "Who's online" I see REGISTERED and I see HIDDEN (also means registered) , and I see GUESTS ( probably unregistered LURKERS).
Usually, there are far more guests than registered.
Made me think geeze someone needs to post to that group. At least some of them must be suffering under the weight of their double life.
haha Pepper, I'm not talking about Mr. T...actually, I'm talking about all of those accusatory eyes. :-) But I think it's cute. Thanks for all of your great posts.
Great posts. Well written and you are probably bang on the mark about the unregistered lurkers needing help and they would be well served if they just came out of lurk mode and said hello.
For unfaithful LURKERS who are "only" having an emotional affair ....
Please read:
Originally Posted by Pepperband
This is an excellent exchange written by BARNBOY
Barnboy: "Steven Harley had some words about spending time trying to define what an affair is:"
Quote
Discussions (or arguments) about what to include or exclude from the definition of marital infidelity is an effective way to get lost down a path where "Left Brainers" typically dwell and where "Right Brainers" typically get offended. The bottom line to the question is, "Specifically, what was it about the inappropriate relationship' that caused the damage in the marriage?" Was it the sex ([insert definition here]), the emotional bond, the amount of time spent together, the physical attraction? What was it? Talk about it. Get a clear understanding. If you don't understand how or why it happened and why it hurt the spouse, the probability of it happening again is very high.
Asking others to define the term for you is not the answer. If you boil it all down, you are left with the fact that you both need to work together in developing a plan to prevent this "beast" from ever attacking your marriage again. If you don't know what it looks like, if you don't know where it hides, if you don't know what its touch feels like, then how will you ever protect your marriage from its venom again?
Barnboy:"Independent behavior + dishonesty about it with a member of the opposite sex is, to me, infidelity. I don't really consider it "adultery" unless it involves sex, but a partner doing things with a member of the opposite sex and lying about it qualifies as infidelity and an affair in my book."
Original poster:"I very recently found out about an EA my spouse was having..."
Barnboy: "Correction: Unless you have evidence that it is over, and extraordinary precautions in place to prevent its recurrence, your husband is involved in an ACTIVE and CURRENT affair, and it should be treated that way."
Original poster:"What is bothering me now is that he refuses to admit anything...........and he knows I have proof. Instead, he has chosen to try and figure out just how much I DO know versus coming clean and getting over it."
Barnboy: "This is the behavior of an active wayward spouse, straight out of the playbook. Their goal is to try to misdirect you in several ways with each piece of evidence: 1. "Gaslight" you, make it your fault, make you question your judgment. 2. Claim these are the actions of people who are "just friends", no matter how inappropriate. 3. Establish how you learned of their actions in order to remove those methods of communication and drive their relationship deeper underground to avoid detection. DO NOT inform him of how you learned each piece of evidence. That will only be used to make sure that snooping method won't work again!
No member of the opposite sex should be allowed to fill a spouse's need for intimate conversation, affection, sexual fulfillment, or recreational companionship. That is how affairs start.
Advice: 1. Buy a copy of Dr. Harley's "Surviving An Affair". Right now. Drop what you're doing, order it, call around to bookstores, whatever, get a copy in your hands. 2. Once you've read the book, implement Plan A immediately. 3. Plan to expose this affair in a very directed fashion. For instance, I collected names, telephone numbers, and email addresses of every friend and relative of my wife's who I knew was a friend of our marriage. Then in a two-day span, I called them all. My script started the same way each time: "Dear friend, I called you for some advice. My wife is having an affair with (other person). I recently discovered it's been going on for the past (length of time). It has not yet become sexual as far as I know, but I don't know what to do about it. You know her so well, I could really use your advice." Expect to receive a mystifying array of responses, but don't plan to act on them; plan to act on Dr. Harley's Plan A from Surviving An Affair. 4. Learn to share the truth of the hurt of the affair with your husband without disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts, or selfish demands.
Your goal here in Plan A is to show your husband what a loving, warm, supportive, and wonderful spouse you can be, and exactly how much he stands to lose if he continues to pursue this affair. If after some time period you set during which you can continue to meet his needs expecting nothing in return he does not abandon his affair partner, you'll move to Plan B.
And we'll cover that in another discussion. Learn the plan to work through Surviving An Affair right now."
The adultery-based marriages are pretty ugly to the majority of posters on this forum. Your marriage will be called an "affairage".
If you have ALREADY married your adultery partner, and then find that he/she is currently cheating on YOU .... You are not treated as other betrayed spouses are treated on the forum.
Just be warned....
You'd be better off skipping the message boards, and calling the Harley counseling center.
A sampling of what Dr Harley says about his experiences with married adultery partners:
Quote
I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.
Correction, it is soul shattering. You will find yourself left with shards of the person you once were or believed yourself to be. The shards can be used to rebuild yourself into a better person, spouse and parent but only through a thorough self examination (after the rectal spelunking is complete) and a humbling of spirit.
Bear in mind those lurkers who have not yet stepped over the line but are considering it...the scars last a lifetime.
Remember this too lurkers...where ever you go *you* go. You cannot run away from yourself by divorcing your spouse or abandoning your children. First step is to look deep into the mirror and see the truth of what is reflected back at you.
is when they KNOW their actions will be judged because they KNOW they have acted badly!
A person never says:
"I educate my child .... please don't judge me." "I've been faithful to my vows ... please don't judge me." "I got an A on my book report ... please don't judge me." "I exercised and watched my diet and lost 35 pounds ... please don't judge me."
They might say:
"I don't make my child attend school ... please don't judge me." "I've cheated on my spouse ... please don't judge me." "I failed my book report ... please don't judge me." "I ate 12 donuts and sat around on my butt all day and now I am fat ... please don't judge me."
It is a that your conscience bothers you when you say:
"Please don't judge me"
You know your actions deserve scrutiny - but you reject that very same scrutiny.
Chlamydia is known as a "silent" disease because the majority of infected people have no symptoms. If symptoms do occur, they usually appear within 1 to 3 weeks after exposure.
In women, the bacteria initially infect the cervix and the urethra (urine canal). Women who have symptoms might have an abnormal vaginal discharge or a burning sensation when urinating. If the infection spreads from the cervix to the fallopian tubes (tubes that carry fertilized eggs from the ovaries to the uterus), some women still have no signs or symptoms; others have lower abdominal pain, low back pain, nausea, fever, pain during intercourse, or bleeding between menstrual periods. Chlamydial infection of the cervix can spread to the rectum.
Men with signs or symptoms might have a discharge from their penis or a burning sensation when urinating. Men might also have burning and itching around the opening of the penis. Pain and swelling in the testicles are uncommon.
Pepperband, this thread is working! There are so many more coming to the forum. Some to stay and some book it out as soon as they see they are not going to get praised just for coming in.
I know this is not all the way to the bottom but I am going to bump it back up to the top.
Lurkers, there is help here. Your life can be so much better. Stop the hiding and the covert action that is destroying you, your spouse and your marriage. There is comfort in marriage, in honesty, in rules and in the spouse who loves you.
DancesWithGoats, can I ask you a few questions? My WH is also a serial cheater. 1st one was 6 months after we got married & ended when his job transferred him to our home town vs. driving 40 mins away.
2nd & 3rd ones were within the last year & a half. The 3rd one only lasted 2 1/2-3 months, my WH thought he fell in love with this last one. The other two were only about "getting off" as he put it.
How do you deal with this emotionally? My WH broke things off with the last OW & came back to me (he was staying in a trailer my parents set up for him to give him alone time) after he confessed all of his A's to me on D-Day.
After they kept communicating, my WH telling the OW that he is sorry, that he thinks he made the wrong choice, asking her what she wants. The OW telling him that he did make the wrong choice but she knew that he'd always pick me over her in the end. With contact still being made...myself & a friend exposed the latest A to her BF & family & the OW sent my WH an NC e-mail. There has been ever NC since ;-) I keep checking up on him though to make sure of it as it's only been a little over a month.
I'm in Plan A right now. There are days that my WH reaches out for me & others that he doesn't. How long, with him thinking he loved the OW, does it take for the fog to lift? How soon should I start pushing for counseling?
DancesWithGoats, can I ask you a few questions? My WH is also a serial cheater. 1st one was 6 months after we got married & ended when his job transferred him to our home town vs. driving 40 mins away.
2nd & 3rd ones were within the last year & a half. The 3rd one only lasted 2 1/2-3 months, my WH thought he fell in love with this last one. The other two were only about "getting off" as he put it.
How do you deal with this emotionally? My WH broke things off with the last OW & came back to me (he was staying in a trailer my parents set up for him to give him alone time) after he confessed all of his A's to me on D-Day.
After they kept communicating, my WH telling the OW that he is sorry, that he thinks he made the wrong choice, asking her what she wants. The OW telling him that he did make the wrong choice but she knew that he'd always pick me over her in the end. With contact still being made...myself & a friend exposed the latest A to her BF & family & the OW sent my WH an NC e-mail. There has been ever NC since ;-) I keep checking up on him though to make sure of it as it's only been a little over a month.
I'm in Plan A right now. There are days that my WH reaches out for me & others that he doesn't. How long, with him thinking he loved the OW, does it take for the fog to lift? How soon should I start pushing for counseling?
Thank you for your time!
It probably would be best if you copy your post and then paste it to begin a new thread asking DWG to help you specifically.
I don't think it is possible for you to misconstrue the Harleys' Plan for Recovery with this video like the way you did w/ SAA. I'd advise you to watch the video in its entirety on the home page (the entire video is 30 mins, this is part 4 of the series on youtube). But at least pls watch the below clip starting at 4:57 (this is at the end of the video and a summation of the plan).
Steve Harley (beginning at 4:57): "As you have just heard infidelity is an emotionally traumatic event. A marriage that has experienced infidelity has been severely injured and must be properly treated.
Can you treat the injury without the help of a coach or counselor? It is possible but very difficult because the actual treatment must be carried out by the one who had the affair. Unless the wayward spouse really understands the details of how to successfully treat the wound, I strongly advise against doing it on your own.
When looking for someone to help your marriage recovery successfully make sure the plan includes at least the following elements..." 1) NC 2) WS assumes FULL responsbility for their OWN actions 3) Reveal Details of the A at soonest appropriate time 4) Detailed Plan to Independently Prevent Reoccurence of another A (EPs) 5) Detailed Plan to Fall in Love & Stay in Love [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/user/MarriageBuilders#p/a/u/0/j3K_0Mte5Sc[/video]
I was walking down the street - there was a big hole in the sidewalk - I fell in. It wasn't my fault, and it took me a long time to get out of it.
Chapter 2
I was walking down the street - there was a big hole in the sidewalk - I tried to avoid it but I fell in. It wasn't my fault. It took me a long time to get out of it.
Chapter 3
I was walking down the street - I saw the big hole in the sidewalk, but I fell in it anyway. It was my fault, but I knew how to get out of it quickly by now.
Chapter 4
I was walking down the street. I saw the big hole in the sidewalk. I carefully walked around it.
Originally Posted by Requirements for Recovery, by Dr Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.
I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.
An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts Basic Concepts as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
These are the defects for marriages between the spouse and the OP.
1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a switch that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.
2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.
3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.
4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.
5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.
6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and people who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.
7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.
8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.
9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.
10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have already demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.
11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.
12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.
Scott Evil: It's no hassle... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: But... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: I'm... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: All I'm say... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: There gonna get a... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: I'm... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: I'm just... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: Would... Dr. Evil: Sh!... Knock-knock. Scott Evil: Who's there? Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: But... Dr. Evil: Let me tell you a little story about a man named Sh! Sh! even before you start. That was a pre-emptive "sh!" Now, I have a whole bag of "sh!" with your name on it.
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First, email your questions to Joyce at jharley@marriagebuilders.com. Then, she will respond to you within a day by return email, and give you a toll-free number and specific time to call Dr. Harley directly during the show where he will answer your questions about marriage
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The following is the all-too-common WAYWARD script.
-------------------- MIDLIFE for Dummies
Welcome to the wonderful world of Mid Life Crisis!! You are about to embark on one of the most perilous journey's you have ever taken. A journey fraught with intrigue and guaranteed to turn you inside out! This book is designed to help you make sure you get the most emotional bang for your buck. In these pages are the "how to" answers to the questions you have been asking yourself about damaging as many people as you can along the way. Come on and dig in, it's time to get this Roller coaster rolling on down the tracks!!
Chapter 1 Choosing the correct speech
There are 4 basic speeches for you to choose from. They are:
a) I love you but I don't know if I'm in love with you.
b) I've never loved you, and we should never have gotten married.
c) We got married to young. I never knew anything besides you.
d) You tricked me into marrying you, I would never have done it otherwise.
Once you have decided on which speech to give, you need to cause as much anxiety in your spouse as you can before you actually give it. Continue to the next chapter for Lessons in building anxiety.
Chapter 2 Lessons in building anxiety
You will find these lessons to be helpful in causing anxiety in your spouse and others (depending on the level of pain and damage you want to cause), not just prior to giving the speech, but throughout your MLC.
Lesson 1 Monstrification of your Spouse
This is easy to accomplish. Simply think of only the "bad" things that your spouse has done throughout your entire relationship. Have one of those "angel" spouses? No problem, just remember how bad she always makes you feel. DO NOT under any circumstances remember fondly your spouse, or anything they have done for you. Remember, they are going to be the cause of all of your problems, so it is imperative that you convince your self of this first.
Lesson 2 Emotional Detachment
This will be very easy to do after accomplishing lesson 1. All you have to do is start reminding yourself that you don't care about them, what they feel, what they want, or if they hurt. Simple! Every time you remind yourself of this, you will get further and further away from your relationship emotionally. Now, that wasn't too hard was it? On to lesson 3
Lesson 3 Mass confusion and Indecision
This lesson requires a little more thought and attention. You must constantly practice saying "I don't know" to ANY and ALL questions. That is imperative!! Your spouse (and others) must never know precisely what is going on in-side your head. Also, never let them know where you are going, where you have been, who you were with (this will go hand in hand with the lesson on the Other Person, or OP), or whether or not they can expect you to return home.
Lesson 4 Lies and Deceit
To get the most damage, and cause the most pain, you must lie and decieve at every opportunity. And to really achieve hall of fame status, you should be very inept at it, so that everyone knows that you are lying, or suspects, but can't prove it initially. This works very well for the following chapters, OP and Cake Eating.
Chapter 3 The Other Person (or OP)
Now it is time for you to succumb to temptation. You KNOW all of those other women/men want you! They have been coming on to you for years!! It is time for you to give them their chance at having some of you. Make sure that you leave a very confusing trail for your spouse to follow. One that lets them suspect, but have to dig and sneak (to make them feel worse about themselves) to find the information they need to prove it. Hold out admitting the affair as long as you can, and don't admit it ever, if you can get away with it.
Chapter 4 Cake Eating
This chapter is designed to string your spouse along in uncertainty as long as possible, because as long as they have hope, they won't be able to go out and find their own lives and be fulfilled. Why should they get to do that, while you are so miserable? They shouldn't!! So, make sure that you are affectionate occasionally (not too often, as this will raise anxiety levels), that you drag your feet about making a decision on the marriage, and that you leave and come back several times (as many as you can get away with).
Chapter 5 History Revision
It is very important that you revise the life you have lead with your spouse. You must use words like: Always, Ever, Never and All of the Time. Always precede the statement with the terms: you, I, and we. As in "you always nag me" "I never ever (double bonus here) get to do what I want" and "We have to do what you want all of the time". This will help to make your spouse feel like the way you are behaving is all their fault, and can cause them to feel even worse about themselves than they already did!!
Chapter 6 It's all about you!!
Remember this is all about you! What you want and need, RIGHT NOW! You shouldn't have to wait until you can afford something, just go on out and get it! You deserve a new haircut, new clothes, and some new toys. You've worked for it. You would probably look great in that new Convertible, or on that new Harley!! So don't hesitate! You live in the here and now! So why wait until tomorrow!!
Remember, the word is CRISIS and if you are in one, EVERYONE else should have to ride the Roller coaster with you! It's no fun taking a ride alone, and you know what they say about misery loving company! Go on out there and get started, so much pain and damage, and so little time!
Chapter 7 Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away
This chapter is to help you deal with the problems that your spouse will try to cause. We don't want you to have to "deal" with anything, now do we? You shouldn't have to "think" about any "issues" right now, except those that concern you "feeling good". The best way to handle this, is to Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away. Any time someone tries to make you see a more "reasonable" stance on a subject, simply Avoid making a reply...stare out into space, as if you are thinking about something important, and they will become uncomfortable and leave you alone. If there are responsibilities that need your attention, simply ignore them. You don't have to do anything you don't feel like doing. And the best for last is Run Away! This can be accomplished in many different ways. OP's can help you Run Away from all of these "problems" as well as Alcohol, Drugs, New Sports Cars....etc the list is endless. Of course, you can always just leave...but remember not to let them know where you are going, and if you'll be back!!
Chapter 8 MC and Therapists:
Your spouse may ask you to go to counseling with her/him. This is only useful to make them feel better. It cannot possibly have anything to you so there is no reason for you to follow-up with anything suggested--it doesn't matter to you. The only thing you should look for is more reasons (excuses) for avoiding, running and ignoring (see previous chapter).
Chapter 9 I Don't have to if I Don't Want to and You Can't Make Me!
Remember that this is about YOU, and what YOU want and how YOU feel!! No one else is important, so don't let them make you feel as if you have to listen to anything they say. Your spouse will try to help you of course, because they love you. Don't let them get away with giving you unwanted advice. Let them know in the teenage vernacular, that they can't make you do anything. This is important, you must be as childish as possible!! Any truly adult behavior on your part will only convince them that you are listening to what they are saying, and you will have to start back at the beginning. Of course, this technique can be used knowingly to cause more confusion and chaos, just beware of the danger, you don't actually want to start acting like an adult!!
Chapter 10 "How to threaten" and/or "How do move out".
You threaten to move out for weeks or months but you don't. (*)You tell your spouse that you got too much on your plate right now to look for a flat but that you will do so in 2 weeks time. After 2 weeks, repeat from (*).
If your wife wants to come too close to you, like entering your bedroom to talk to you, tell her to stay away or you will move out. When she replies that you will move out anyway tell her that you will move out faster if she comes any closer
Chapter 11 Art of Clinging
The Art of Clinging to the End of the Mattress without falling off the matrimonial bed while still sharing it with your spouse.
Chapter 12 Advanced lessons
This is usually reserved for those in more difficult situations, where the LBS has responded not by tossing you out, threatening to leave, or filing for divorce, but instead persists in not only OFFERING to cooperate, but actually MAKING THE CHANGES you said you needed.
"I am tired of living like this/I don't want to live like this anymore/I am not going to live my life like this?" often is coupled with another advanced tactic, "It's not you, it's me".
This line is most effective AFTER the LBS has jumped through hoops and bent over backwards. It basically confirms that no matter what changes the LBS is willing to make, the incompatibility lies within the MLCer, who has no intention of, or implied desire or ability to, compromise.
Appendix
HOW TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE THINK SHE IS CRAZY
1. When confronted by the evidence of an EA or PA, become very indignant. Stress that the LBS is obviously just a jealous sob/bi*ch, and you are entitled to "buddies" of the opposite sex.
2. Never, ever answer the question, "Are you okay? Is there something wrong?" with a direct answer that might actually lead to a discussion that might help the marriage. Continue to never talk to spouse, never give her/him a personal compliment or touch of affection and by all means work on the "cling to the edge of the mattress to avoid touching" manoeuvre that is so successful in making your spouse crazy.
3. Always bear in mind that your spouse will expect you to want to at least give them the chance to "fix" the marriage. Since you have already checked out emotionally (of course NEVER tell them that!), you are under no obligation to actually listen to anything they say or acknowledge anything they do. This tactic is also extremely beneficial when they employ the MLC diet. When they lose a massive amount of weight and you are in ear shot of someone who mentions to spouse about the weight loss, say "Are you losing weight? Why don't you ever tell me things?"
4. Of course one of the most successful ways to drive them crazy may only be used when you have earned the MLC Black Belt. Go to marriage counselling for months, let them pour out their soul to you and the counsellor and let them believe they are actually accomplishing something. Then arrange things so the spouse finds you in your own home with OP. This will accomplish two things: a. She will finally have to understand how lucky you are to have found your "soul mate" and b. She will be doubly betrayed because she thought you were actually working on the marriage.
DON'T LET YOUR SPOUSE GET TOO INDEPENDENT - STATEGIES FOR SUCKING YOUR SPOUSE BACK IN
1. Make negative comments about OP or the chances that the relationship with OP will succeed. HOWEVER, under no circumstances, make any commitment to end the relationship with OP.
2. Make veiled hints about suicide or excessive drinking or drug use. Be erratic and hard to contact.
3. Do random acts of kindness such as yard work or something. That will keep your spouse confused and hopeful.
4. Make vague comments hinting that things might work out between you and your spouse IN THE FUTURE. HOWEVER, under no circumstances take any actions to work anything out.
CUSTODY Using the kids to your advantage.
If you have children, they can be extremely useful for inducing fear and panic in your spouse. Recommended phrases include, "You're poisoning my kids against me", "You put that idea into their heads", and "You need to do [insert pertinent action here] for the sake of the kids'." Remember, your spouse, being a responsible and loving person, is not only trying to cope with his/her own feelings, but trying to protect the children, and you can use that to your advantage.
Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. It doesn't matter if you feed them ice cream for breakfast and have them watch "Hellboy" when they asked for "Veggie Tales", you Just Wanted To Make Them Happy, and since YOU are the best judge of Happiness, that makes you Super Parent. You can use this opportunity to trash talk your spouse ("Isn't this more fun than what Mommy/Daddy would let you do?" "Mom/Dad doesn't know how to relax.") which of course, will be repeated back to your spouse so you get the benefit of destroying their self-esteem second hand.
Highly advanced MLCers may want to start casually using the word Custody, but be very, very careful. While useful for sending your spouse into a state of panic, you certainly do not want to be responsible for a bunch of kids who will seriously cut into your personal fun time. The word Custody should only be used in a casual tone of voice for the most devastating effect.
BUTTON PUSHING
You (the mlcer) know a lot about your spouse. You know what pushes their buttons to get them both upset and/or happy. You have the power, you can do it! So using the kids to upset them is fair game (see section on how to use "custody" to upset them but not take on the "custody"). And if that ever stops working, find something else. Suggestions might include pets, valuables in the home, their appearance, family, career. Nothing is out of your reach since you have put in so many years getting to know your spouse--use what you know.
THE BLAME GAME
By now, you should be aware that all of this MUST be your spouses fault, however, your spouse may not understand this completely yet, so you need to start planting the seeds.
There are several ingenious ways to put the blame on your spouse, and we will be exploring them all.
Method 1: The Non-Blame Statement
I'm trying not to blame YOU
This statement implies that you are "not putting the blame on them" but on closer look (which your spouse is guaranteed to be doing) The words actually put all of the blame on the spouse (where of course we know it belongs).
Method 2: The Passive Blame Statement
I don't think that I can live with you. My opinion never mattered to you. I cant' live like this. We rarely have fun anymore. I don't want to live this way anymore. (There are many more I'm sure you can think of)
These are passive statements that don't actually assign blame to your spouse, but your spouse will definitely get the idea if you use them. They can't help but see that it MUST be them that makes you feel this way.
Method 3: The Direct Blame Statement
You never listen to me. You never put creases in my pants. You use bagged salad. You never keep the house clean. You are going to do it your way.
All of these are direct statements of blame. You should mix actual faults with things that don't really matter to make it more confusing, and make your spouse feel as bad as possible about themselves.
Your spouse has probably already started doing the hard work to look inside his/herself (Yuck, what an awful thought!) and will take on all of the faults you list to try and correct them. This will keep them occupied for awhile, and you can avoid any serious relationship talks while they apologize for and try to fix all of their own faults. Make sure that you don't actually accept the apology, that way you can continue to bring the fault up which will slow down their self improvement process. Remember, they are working on becoming better human beings, and you wouldn't want that to happen to fast, as that would interfere with your ability to string them along.
Note: NEVER ACTUALLY ADMIT TO ANY FAULTS OF YOUR OWN!!!! REMEMBER, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! YOU ARE THE GOOD ONE, AND HAD THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, LIE, SPEND MONEY, OR ANY OTHER THING, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BAD!!!
let's not forget "We're just incompatible - we always were."
Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL. If all else fails, put the LBS down for being so willing to change herself for your needs. Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL."
How to keep you spouse guessing...be mean one minute threatening divorce, etc then next day be kind and sweet almost the way your spouse remembers you..rinse repeat....
HOW TO CONTINUE THE CRAZINESS ONCE SEPARATION/DIVORCE IS AGREED UPON
1. Even though by now you, dear MLCer, have done everything human possibly to convince your spouse that you do not love him/her and want out, when the time comes to actually file, DON"T DO IT! This is the coup de gras of MLC. Absolutely DO NOT TAKE THE INITIATIVE. This is a most vital and awesome crazy-maker. Holding out will force your by now totally devastated spouse to finally throw up his/her hands and seek legal counsel.
2. Once the LBS has had enough and decides that divorce is in their best interest, you have won HUGE points here. Refusing to be the one to file now puts YOU in the role of victim, bringing you all the attention and pity necessary to allow you to again regain your image of the abused one in all this. Now you can, with absolutely NO guilt, tell everyone the divorce was your LBS's idea (which of COURSE it was!) and they will assume that: a. the LBS lost all that weight and obviously has been involved in an affair, and b. the marriage ended because your LBS spouse is going through a -
YES! THE PINNACLE OF CRAZINESS! - Midlife Crisis!!
This was perfect! I actually laughed out loud a couple times relating my conversations with my WH.
Thank you! I don't feel all that crazy now!
Yeah,
My favorite bit:
Quote
Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. It doesn't matter if you feed them ice cream for breakfast and have them watch "Hellboy" when they asked for "Veggie Tales", you Just Wanted To Make Them Happy, and since YOU are the best judge of Happiness, that makes you Super Parent. You can use this opportunity to trash talk your spouse ("Isn't this more fun than what Mommy/Daddy would let you do?" "Mom/Dad doesn't know how to relax.") which of course, will be repeated back to your spouse so you get the benefit of destroying their self-esteem second hand.
Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. It doesn't matter if you feed them ice cream for breakfast and have them watch "Hellboy" when they asked for "Veggie Tales", you Just Wanted To Make Them Happy, and since YOU are the best judge of Happiness, that makes you Super Parent. You can use this opportunity to trash talk your spouse ("Isn't this more fun than what Mommy/Daddy would let you do?" "Mom/Dad doesn't know how to relax.") which of course, will be repeated back to your spouse so you get the benefit of destroying their self-esteem second hand.
This reminds me of somebody.....but who could it be...
verb [ intrans. ] (of a person or animal) be or remain hidden so as to wait in ambush for someone or something : a ruthless killer still lurked in the darkness.
� (of an unpleasant quality) be present in a latent or barely discernible state, although still presenting a threat : fear lurks beneath the surface | [as adj. ] ( lurking) he lives with a lurking fear of exposure as a fraud.
� [ intrans. ] read communications on an electronic network without making one's presence known. ORIGIN Middle English : perhaps from lour + the frequentative suffix -k (as in talk).
There has NEVER in my 5+ years here been a better time to start posting on these forums. Dr. Harley and the moderators have done a tremendous job making this forum, once again, a safe place to discuss Marriage Builders and helping people as opposed to a private chat forum and endless attacks (with the ensuing meta-discussions) by trolls, frauds and other individuals unfamiliar with the program and seemingly opposed to it's concepts and principles for whatever reason.
MB is a tough place. We will challenge betrayed and wayward spouses alike. We PROMISE not to sugarcoat our helpful advice. We WILL confront your thinking and maybe even your beliefs but for those that stick around and come out the other side...it is very much worth the endeavour.
The path to marital recovery is very narrow and we'll do are best to keep you on it.
thank u so much for posting all of this! i'm a new Italian on MB. The Midlife for Dummies is my W in a nutshell. that is the essence of her. she has been in the habit of trolling thru my phone looking at my browser history bc she is curious what i'm posting on MB. also my notes app bc that is where i "leave" things that are on my mind or various phrases, sayings, etc. i made a point of pasting a lot of the above in there hoping the W might actually look. doubt it bc why "should i bother?"
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.
I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.
How does it feel ... living a secret life so far away from what you know is good & right?
Adultery will never make you a better person. Adultery always leads to pain for the guilty as well as the innocent. Adultery is death to your goodness.
So, what is it like? Do you *think* you might be happy if you married the person you committed adultery with? You know, the other adulterer? It might look like this. Written by NewCreation on 02/17/2011
Originally Posted by NewCreation2011
My perspective is from that of the OW who became the new wife. I hope this helps someone.
You will get to be responsible for destroying the life of another woman. You will get to be responsible for destroying the lives of all children involved. No, children are not resilient. They are sponges and take in everything around them whether they are capable of processing it or not. And when they are not able to process their world being shattered and all the conflicting messages about right and wrong, you will get to deal with all their issues and mistakes and anger as they grow up. You will have to know all the while that whatever is happening is a direct result of your selfishness. If the child fails at school, can�t control their anger, becomes promiscuous, falls into addictions, can�t maintain good relationships of their own you get to know in the back of your mind and deep in your soul that you are responsible for what molded that child. Whether you admit it or not, you WILL know. You will not be able to fix this; it will not work out, smooth over, or ever be okay. Even if you look like the Cleavers on the surface it is under there bubbling and will come out. Don�t think you are special and you will escape this result.
Maybe right now you are in a place where you are in deep denial about the children and you don�t give a crap about the BW. Let me appeal to your sense of selfishness then and tell you what you personally are going to suffer in the years to come�
You are marrying a cheater. Someone who didn�t like what they had at home so they went looking for something better. Or maybe you offered him something better? It doesn�t really matter who started it, who lied more, it doesn�t even really matter if you were tricked into a relationship not knowing he was married at first. Your consequences will be the same. You now have a spouse who gave up one family and chose you and yours. Feels great right? Think again. How long do you think it will take before you stop feeling like a prize?
The minute things go wrong, and face it, in all marriages there are these times, he is going to be looking at you and wondering if you were worth it. And you will feel it. Even if he doesn�t say it right out. He is going to realize that this marriage requires just as much work as the old one did and you are not nearly as perfect in real life as he thought you were and he is going to be angry for what he has sacrificed for you. Now you get to be insecure and feel like you are always fighting to be worth it to him.
You are going to be labeled as the [censored] for the entire rest of your life. No matter what changes or personal revelations you come to, you will be the [censored] that wrecked a home and stole a husband. There will be innumerable family conflicts over this. You are likely to have his kids hating your guts forever. This means that every holiday, school concert, soccer game, big family event like graduations and weddings, and grandkids (yes, it will last that far and long) will be sources of conflict instead of happy times.
You will probably not be invited to a lot of things that your spouse should be attending with his children. You may show up anyway, asserting your position as the new wife. But it will be a conflict. You spouse will have to over and over choose between you and his original family. He is going to resent you for this. You are going to get so tired of constantly being the center of conflict and so tired of all the hate directed at you and no one is going to sympathize with you. When you do impose yourself where the BW and her children and extended family and friends are you will feel the scarlet letter that you wear burning in your chest no matter how high you try to hold your head. I promise you, you will. You and your stolen spouse will fight over this more than you can imagine in the years to come.
And guess what?! When he starts to pull away from you and works late more, or isn�t insatiable in bed with you anymore, or cuts his hair a new way you are going to be terrified. You are going to be terrified because you know exactly what he might be doing next. You are going to be suspicious probably before he actually even does anything because you already know he is untrustworthy.
Chances are he is going to cheat again too. Except this time on you. Now, you get to feel the pain of being a BW doubled by the pain of realizing exactly what you did to someone else. The guilt and shame on top of your already devastating pain from being cheated on will be unbearable. Now listen to this closely NO ONE IS GOING TO CARE!! You are going to hear and know that you should have known better and have the old adages about cheaters thrown in your face over and over. You will not be able to come somewhere like these boards for support because they are going to crucify you! You will be all alone with your pain and your heartache with no one to blame but yourself.
Do not think you are special. DO NOT THINK IT WON�THAPPEN TO YOU!!!!!!!!!! The stats are overwhelmingly high. No one gets married thinking that their spouse will cheat. No one. I promise you are not different or better somehow.
Occasionally an affair partner will grow a conscience and want to be a good person and here is what happens�
Now, let�s say that you make changes in your heart and your life. Let say you find God or in whatever way it comes to you, you realize that you have done something horrendous. Okay, now you actually do care about those kids and that BW. Well too bad. You can�t fix it. Yes, God will forgive you if you repent. Not many others will. And you will have one heck of a time trying to forgive yourself. You will feel sick and ashamed all the time. You will cry many bitter tears.
You will not be able to look at your spouse and feel the same way you once did. All of your memories of when you first met, your first kiss, the early days of your relationship will be tainted. All of those memories that are supposed to be sweet will be sour. You will not be able to enjoy them because you know that whole time it was wrong, wrong, wrong! What are you left with? Not much.
You are going to try to offer apologies, you are going to try to figure out what you can possibly do to make amends and there are going to be no easy answers. You will be told by many that you can�t repent and stay married. You will be told by just as many that if God has forgiven you that another divorce would be just another sin. You will make yourself crazy over this because you want to do the right thing for once in your life and you have put yourself in a situation where it is impossible to know what that it.
Also, if you are one of the few who have this attack of conscience at some point down the road, you are still going to be dealing with all the same stuff above that the unremorseful affair partner is dealing with except it�s probably going to hurt you even more because you now genuinely care. Too bad no one will think you are sincere or trust your words. Why should they, remember what you did?? Of course you do, now go cry some more as if it will help.
There are no time machines people!! You are making a mess bigger than you can ever clean up!!
There is really a lot more I could say about how this is going to play out but this is already getting very long.
Like I said, this is from my perspective but just change the pronouns and it is the same for anyone entering into an adulterous relationship. Man or woman, whether you are the WW, WH, AP, it�s going to end in ruin.
You have been warned.
And if anyone out there is currently involved in waywardness and wants to ask me something, fire away! I will answer any and everything asked if it will get you to stop what you are doing and reconcile your family before it is too late.
Unfortunately if you are already married to your AP don�t bother asking me. I can�t help you because I cannot help myself. I live in the ruins of my own creation. You like me should have seen the light sooner. Sorry.
To the BS out there who may read this, I can only hope that knowing that your spouse is not going to be happy and their AP is not going to be happy helps you feel a little bit vindicated. I promise you that even if they look like the picture of happiness on the outside they are not. They have a cancer eating their souls. You can have a better life. They won�t.
Bump for anyone who might be lurking tonight, needing help. Are things not going quite according to plan? You're not happy with your mate, and you're not happy with yourself? Still doing things you wish you could stop?
Not the guy you wanted to be? The kind who pays cash for hotel rooms?
Not the kind of guy who does this sort of thing to his wife behind her back?
Having a hard time living with what you've been doing?
Come clean. There's a way back.
Stick around. Read...
Awright, so you let things go too far. You thought you could stop. It's fun when you're with her -- she's pretty into you, huh? But when you're back home with your wife & kids, you feel guilty... trapped in what you've been doing. Can't dare let your wife find out, right? So you're just gonna try to keep up the deception, is that it? And you think that'll work, long-term? You got a plan for that?
Lurker, remember when you used to celebrate your anniversary? Now you're not sure whether you will or can again? I'm celebrating #19 this week. Time was, I was afraid I wouldn't see #17. You can still fix things. You can have a marriage that's better than it ever was before. But man, you've got to choose what's right while there's still that chance. 'Cuz the deeper you get in & the longer you stay there, the harder it's gonna be to get out with the things that'll truly matter to you one day.
Tired of not knowing how this'll end for your children, and scared of those moments & hours when you don't even care?
Hating how, afterwards, it doesn't feel completely right?
Tired of looking at that woman in your mirror and wondering who she's become, and of not being sure you even like her anymore?
You can change your marriage. You can make it better than it was.
This other guy is not the answer for you. I think that, deep down, you know that, don't you?
Then 'fess up. And read up.
So this other guy sweeps you off your feet. But does he trust you? Do you feel like you can trust him? If he had to choose, would he choose you?
You husband chose you. Maybe he ignores you. Maybe he's not a great listener. Maybe he's put on a couple of pounds. Maybe he's gotten a little lazy. Maybe he takes you for granted. But he doesn't deserve what you're doing to him. You swore to him that you wouldn't. You swore without condition. And back then, in your heart of hearts, you meant it, too. You can't rewrite that.
All that other stuff can be fixed. But what you're doing now can't be fixed. It can only end. You need to decide if it ends with you still being able to be someone you can be proud of again, someday.
Today, I present an analogy to the "gift" that the repentent wayward moving towards recovery now knows - the gift they would wish on nobody else;
If you dislike adultery being analogized to canceer, I suggest you view the damage adultery does to the betrayed spouse, the children, family, friends... and ultimately, the wayward spouse themselves.
"Sin in it's ordinary progression first deceives, next hardens, and then destroys." - John Thornton
Thinking about this quote in the context of a wayward mind ....
1. Deception. We talk about wayward "fog", which is verbal expression of the self deception that goes on in a wayward mind. Deception which allows a so called "normal" person to commit adultery. "The enemy" is the ultimate liar. What deception does is this, deception makes swallowing a deadly poison seem like a desirable choice. This is the point in adultery where the waywards telling themselves lies might be shocked into reality by exposure. perhaps not, but it is possible. Truth & light are kryptonite to the deception. I am talking about the wayward losing his/her mind.
2. Hardening. Now, about the wayward's heart. It hardens. The wayward heart becomes callous. The wayward heart becomes closed off and insensitive to the pain and devastation their adultery causes. The wayward can even accept the broken hearts of their own children if that pain supports their adultery. The wayward becomes impervious to empathy. Cry all you want, your tears have no meaning for the hardened heart of a lost wayward. Your tears, your pain only annoy the hardened wayward heart.
3. Destruction. And finally, the wayward's soul. The sin of adultery destroys the wayward's soul. The spiritual essence of humanity is nowhere to be found in the wayward. Integrity has been cast off in order for the adultery to continue. The wayward does not go on his/her merry way unscathed. The wayward is the most wounded of all. The destruction of a once beautiful soul, now made ugly by sin, is heartbreaking.
There is a progression to this loss. Humans are vulnerable to temptation. Temptation feels good. But, giving into the sin, and living in the sin is life changing. Soul changing.
We can actually SEE it sometimes. We can actually SEE the cold eyes of the hardened heart. We can actually SEE the lifeless eyes of the soulless.
You're here because you've had an affair, but you haven't brought yourself to tell your spouse. There's definitely a reason why you landed this page and why you continue reading. Perhaps it is guilt, fear or just morbid curiosity of what you can expect when you tell him or her? Whatever your reasons are, I am glad you're here because I will be your tour guide of what you can look forward to should you decide to continue your affair. Are you ready?
So your marriage sucks because you don't have fun together any more, have nothing left in common, nothing left to talk about and sex is non-existant, right? But along comes a friend who you can talk to about everything and they're able to connect with you on every single level! How incredible is THAT?! Your needs are FINALLY being met. You go home and look at your spouse with complete distain and wonder how you ever ended up marrying them because they don't even know YOU let alone what you actually want anymore. Onward matey, into the fog!!!
You don't want to get caught and so you decide to be clever and put your friend's phone number in your cell, but list it as a different name. Oops! Egg on face because you WILL get caught. Did that. You need something that is untraceable so you'll just get a prepaid phone instead. Yep, got caught doing that, too. As clever as you think you are, you have to realize that it's all been done before you and that people (as much as you think they are) aren't oblivious to your sneaky ways.
Your spouse is now falling apart and things are worse off now than they were before you even started talking to your friend. You feel bad but can't break things off with your friend because of the the euphoria you feel when you're with them. No one understands you like they do. Plus, your marriage is definitely over so screw it.
You continue to fantasize about what things would be like if you were to start a new life with your friend. How much better they would be for your children. How vacations and holidays would be so much more fulfilling than the shear misery you live with now, right? Let's take a look at that.
Believe it or not, there was a time when you felt exactly the same way about your spouse as you do now with your AP. That's what brought you two together! You had balance, holidays were special, you had this invisible force shield that no one could penetrate because you couldn't imagine life without them. Think back and REALLY remember those days because they didn't disappear.
You only have one soul and it cannot be split into two distinct people. That's not the way God designed you. What you have with one person, you will not have with another. You'll have a completely different life, that's true. But you will be missing crucial pieces that truly matter. You won't be able to turn to your AP and say, "Remember when ________ happened? That was so funny!" You won't be able to talk about life changing moments of when your children were born, when you bought your first house, when you saw each other through major illnesses. Your affair is based on things that cannot sustain a real relationship as real as it may seem to you now. Lust fades, the truth prevails and fun will diminish with the harsh onset of reality. You'll find that your friends and family will pull away from you and you'll be left wondering why they don't want to meet your friend?
If you think that things are complicated now, wait until you have to deal with the complexities of maintaining an affair under a crumbling marriage! You will lose everything. Your marriage, family, friends, house, savings, maybe your job, definitely your reputation but most of all, your soul. I am starting a new life but unfortunately it isn't with the man I married. It is alone. The holidays aren't what the used to be, songs that meant something to us bring tears to my eyes, places we used to frequent hurt to go to, and part time parenting is extremely painful.
Think long and hard about what you're doing and what you have to lose. Humility and radical honesty are key. You're dealing with many people's lives here, not just your own.
"Sin in it's ordinary progression first deceives, next hardens, and then destroys." - John Thornton
Thinking about this quote in the context of a wayward mind ....
3. Destruction. And finally, the wayward's soul. The sin of adultery destroys the wayward's soul. The wayward does not go on his/her merry way unscathed. The wayward is the most wounded of all. The destruction of a once beautiful soul, now made ugly by sin, is heartbreaking.
Am I an Evil Betrayed Spouse for not feeling bad if my WW is "wounded" by her own actions?
Am I evil for wanting to see my WW suffer a bit from the results of her own actions? (But I can't see it, if in fact it's happening, because she left me and won't speak to me now because I exposed her and removed the facade of decency that she hid behind.)
My last 3 months has been a living he!!.....getting better each day. If I could KNOW that she's suffering even HALF as much as I have these last few months......That would satisfy my selfish side! Does THAT make me evil? I want to be a better man......a better Husband......but I'd like to know that my WW has lost some sleep due to the results of her own actions.
Am I an Evil Betrayed Spouse for not feeling bad if my WW is "wounded" by her own actions?
Am I evil for wanting to see my WW suffer a bit from the results of her own actions? (But I can't see it, if in fact it's happening, because she left me and won't speak to me now because I exposed her and removed the facade of decency that she hid behind.)
My last 3 months has been a living he!!.....getting better each day. If I could KNOW that she's suffering even HALF as much as I have these last few months......That would satisfy my selfish side! Does THAT make me evil? I want to be a better man......a better Husband......but I'd like to know that my WW has lost some sleep due to the results of her own actions.
Bill - the goal is to move your personal recovery away from this thinking.
This thinking will only stifle you as you work through this nightmare. We, BS's, all have these type of demonic thoughts racing in our brains. As time goes on and the Wayward continues thier decent into He!! you can also decend with them.
This is the point you jump off the devil's train, and move yourself to the safe arms of the ones that love you. She has to move that speeding train herself, and only she has the emergency shut off button.
When you want revenge or you think of evil towards her, try to take your memory elsewhere. The day she wakes up and her pain will be far greater than ever imagined.
You are a praying man, work through prayer to have her feel you, hear you, and stay connected. As time goes on you will see how GOD is working his hinny off on her. Work on you to get to that place of stillness.
Turn you light on for her, so you can steer her through the fog. Let GOD bump the waves on her vessel so it is pointing in the right direction. Believe me he is using wind, rain, fish, and all his power so those waves will go in the direction towards your marriage. Right now she is fighting the wheel because she doesn't know what direction she should be heading.
Am I an Evil Betrayed Spouse for not feeling bad if my WW is "wounded" by her own actions?
Bill - the goal is to move your personal recovery away from this thinking.
This thinking will only stifle you as you work through this nightmare.
This is the point you jump off the devil's train, and move yourself to the safe arms of the ones that love you. She has to move that speeding train herself, and only she has the emergency shut off button.
The day she wakes up and her pain will be far greater than ever imagined.
You are a praying man, work through prayer to have her feel you, hear you, and stay connected. As time goes on you will see how GOD is working his hinny off on her. Work on you to get to that place of stillness.
Turn you light on for her, so you can steer her through the fog. Let GOD bump the waves on her vessel so it is pointing in the right direction. Believe me he is using wind, rain, fish, and all his power so those waves will go in the direction towards your marriage. Right now she is fighting the wheel because she doesn't know what direction she should be heading.
And God works through YOU itistoughlove !!.....and the others on this forum!!! THANK YOU!! I'm laying in Gods arms on a daily basis!!......but I KNOW the enemy puts those thoughts into my head! I want what God wants!!! KEEP ME STRAIGHT!!!
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
Facebook Your job Your recreational activity Your gym Your child's school Your travel Your friend/neighbor Your church Secrecy under the guise of 'privacy' Going to bars
Eliminate the conditions that made your affair possible.
Hello unfaithful lurkers ! PS: I decided to 'bump' this because I noticed there are 131 Guests !!!!! Some of you lurkers must be wayward & looking for a way out of your hellish world.
That was my reaction too, a very powerful and frank insight. No point sending it to my WH though as he is still under the illusion that his and OW's situation is 'different' as they are 'soulmates' and what they have is 'special'.
Funny how he used those exact same words to describe us not so long ago...
UNFAITHFUL LURKER .... Welcome to MARRIAGE BUILDERS A forum where you will be asked to take personal responsibility for your choices .... No "Yes butt" allowed. We'll just laugh at your "yes butt".
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Until the wayward spouse or the betrayed spouse accepts that they alone control themselves, they are immune to all our MB 'teachings'.
"The Devil made me do it." <~~~ External locus of control. "It just happened." <~~~ External locus of control. "I couldn't stop myself." <~~~ External locus of control. "He/She made me break Plan B." <~~~ External locus of control. "You made me run back to the OW/OM." <~~~ External locus of control.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Those with a high external locus of control believe that powerful others, fate, or chance primarily determine events.
External locus of control = "I not responsible for what I did or what I will do." External locus of control = "No MB Plan will really work, because outside forces cause me do what I do." External locus of control = A serious lack of personal boundaries.
Waywards or betrayed spouses with external locus of control will be far more likely to feel they are a victim. Powerless. Useless. Caught up in circumstances which they have no power to change.
A cop out? Maybe. A personality style? Certainly.
A person who feels they are without power over themselves will claim no responsibility for their actions. After all, it was not their fault. Some other force caused them to act the way they act.
If you see a MB'er who is sticking to their PLAN, the odds are great that that person has an Internal Locus of Control.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Those with a high internal locus of control have better control of their behavior, tend to exhibit more political behaviors, and are more likely to attempt to influence other people than those with a high external (or low internal respectively) locus of control. Those with a high internal locus of control are more likely to assume that their efforts will be successful. They are more active in seeking information and knowledge concerning their situation.
When dealing with an MB'er with a high level of self control, you are less likely to hear the "Yes, but ...." (Which drives me NUTZ )
When a MB'er asks questions about the plans .... I see a betrayed spouse (or a former wayward) with personal self control and that person will usually have success in life no matter what happens with their marriage.
I observe that couples who both think that outside forces control them have a very low chance of MB success. We can cram MB theory/Plans/articles down their throat until the cows come home .... "Yes, but ..." will usually prevail.
When is it "the fog" and when is it an ingrained style of coping with life? It's sometimes difficult to determine. Especially after trauma. Or, during a period of severe emotional pain. And, it is very difficult to say if this will turn around when there is depression or anxiety at play. However, I think that over time, people will either take their known attributes and make the most of what they have, or they will throw themselves on the floor, have a pity party tantrum and announce to the world their victimization status. Thus releaving themselves of any personal responsibility.
UNFAITHFUL LURKER .... Welcome to MARRIAGE BUILDERS A forum where you will be asked to take personal responsibility for your choices .... No "Yes butt" allowed. We'll just laugh at your "yes butt".
We even search our minds to think of everything that our spouse ever did, no matter how insignificant, how long ago it was, in order to make us feel better about cheating. We can find any reason to blame our spouse for US deciding and making a conscious choice to cheat and find a reason to say it is ok.
The following is the all-too-common WAYWARD script.
-------------------- MIDLIFE for Dummies
Welcome to the wonderful world of Mid Life Crisis!! You are about to embark on one of the most perilous journey's you have ever taken. A journey fraught with intrigue and guaranteed to turn you inside out! This book is designed to help you make sure you get the most emotional bang for your buck. In these pages are the "how to" answers to the questions you have been asking yourself about damaging as many people as you can along the way. Come on and dig in, it's time to get this Roller coaster rolling on down the tracks!!
Chapter 1 Choosing the correct speech
There are 4 basic speeches for you to choose from. They are:
a) I love you but I don't know if I'm in love with you.
b) I've never loved you, and we should never have gotten married.
c) We got married to young. I never knew anything besides you.
d) You tricked me into marrying you, I would never have done it otherwise.
Once you have decided on which speech to give, you need to cause as much anxiety in your spouse as you can before you actually give it. Continue to the next chapter for Lessons in building anxiety.
Chapter 2 Lessons in building anxiety
You will find these lessons to be helpful in causing anxiety in your spouse and others (depending on the level of pain and damage you want to cause), not just prior to giving the speech, but throughout your MLC.
Lesson 1 Monstrification of your Spouse
This is easy to accomplish. Simply think of only the "bad" things that your spouse has done throughout your entire relationship. Have one of those "angel" spouses? No problem, just remember how bad she always makes you feel. DO NOT under any circumstances remember fondly your spouse, or anything they have done for you. Remember, they are going to be the cause of all of your problems, so it is imperative that you convince your self of this first.
Lesson 2 Emotional Detachment
This will be very easy to do after accomplishing lesson 1. All you have to do is start reminding yourself that you don't care about them, what they feel, what they want, or if they hurt. Simple! Every time you remind yourself of this, you will get further and further away from your relationship emotionally. Now, that wasn't too hard was it? On to lesson 3
Lesson 3 Mass confusion and Indecision
This lesson requires a little more thought and attention. You must constantly practice saying "I don't know" to ANY and ALL questions. That is imperative!! Your spouse (and others) must never know precisely what is going on in-side your head. Also, never let them know where you are going, where you have been, who you were with (this will go hand in hand with the lesson on the Other Person, or OP), or whether or not they can expect you to return home.
Lesson 4 Lies and Deceit
To get the most damage, and cause the most pain, you must lie and decieve at every opportunity. And to really achieve hall of fame status, you should be very inept at it, so that everyone knows that you are lying, or suspects, but can't prove it initially. This works very well for the following chapters, OP and Cake Eating.
Chapter 3 The Other Person (or OP)
Now it is time for you to succumb to temptation. You KNOW all of those other women/men want you! They have been coming on to you for years!! It is time for you to give them their chance at having some of you. Make sure that you leave a very confusing trail for your spouse to follow. One that lets them suspect, but have to dig and sneak (to make them feel worse about themselves) to find the information they need to prove it. Hold out admitting the affair as long as you can, and don't admit it ever, if you can get away with it.
Chapter 4 Cake Eating
This chapter is designed to string your spouse along in uncertainty as long as possible, because as long as they have hope, they won't be able to go out and find their own lives and be fulfilled. Why should they get to do that, while you are so miserable? They shouldn't!! So, make sure that you are affectionate occasionally (not too often, as this will raise anxiety levels), that you drag your feet about making a decision on the marriage, and that you leave and come back several times (as many as you can get away with).
Chapter 5 History Revision
It is very important that you revise the life you have lead with your spouse. You must use words like: Always, Ever, Never and All of the Time. Always precede the statement with the terms: you, I, and we. As in "you always nag me" "I never ever (double bonus here) get to do what I want" and "We have to do what you want all of the time". This will help to make your spouse feel like the way you are behaving is all their fault, and can cause them to feel even worse about themselves than they already did!!
Chapter 6 It's all about you!!
Remember this is all about you! What you want and need, RIGHT NOW! You shouldn't have to wait until you can afford something, just go on out and get it! You deserve a new haircut, new clothes, and some new toys. You've worked for it. You would probably look great in that new Convertible, or on that new Harley!! So don't hesitate! You live in the here and now! So why wait until tomorrow!!
Remember, the word is CRISIS and if you are in one, EVERYONE else should have to ride the Roller coaster with you! It's no fun taking a ride alone, and you know what they say about misery loving company! Go on out there and get started, so much pain and damage, and so little time!
Chapter 7 Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away
This chapter is to help you deal with the problems that your spouse will try to cause. We don't want you to have to "deal" with anything, now do we? You shouldn't have to "think" about any "issues" right now, except those that concern you "feeling good". The best way to handle this, is to Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away. Any time someone tries to make you see a more "reasonable" stance on a subject, simply Avoid making a reply...stare out into space, as if you are thinking about something important, and they will become uncomfortable and leave you alone. If there are responsibilities that need your attention, simply ignore them. You don't have to do anything you don't feel like doing. And the best for last is Run Away! This can be accomplished in many different ways. OP's can help you Run Away from all of these "problems" as well as Alcohol, Drugs, New Sports Cars....etc the list is endless. Of course, you can always just leave...but remember not to let them know where you are going, and if you'll be back!!
Chapter 8 MC and Therapists:
Your spouse may ask you to go to counseling with her/him. This is only useful to make them feel better. It cannot possibly have anything to you so there is no reason for you to follow-up with anything suggested--it doesn't matter to you. The only thing you should look for is more reasons (excuses) for avoiding, running and ignoring (see previous chapter).
Chapter 9 I Don't have to if I Don't Want to and You Can't Make Me!
Remember that this is about YOU, and what YOU want and how YOU feel!! No one else is important, so don't let them make you feel as if you have to listen to anything they say. Your spouse will try to help you of course, because they love you. Don't let them get away with giving you unwanted advice. Let them know in the teenage vernacular, that they can't make you do anything. This is important, you must be as childish as possible!! Any truly adult behavior on your part will only convince them that you are listening to what they are saying, and you will have to start back at the beginning. Of course, this technique can be used knowingly to cause more confusion and chaos, just beware of the danger, you don't actually want to start acting like an adult!!
Chapter 10 "How to threaten" and/or "How do move out".
You threaten to move out for weeks or months but you don't. (*)You tell your spouse that you got too much on your plate right now to look for a flat but that you will do so in 2 weeks time. After 2 weeks, repeat from (*).
If your wife wants to come too close to you, like entering your bedroom to talk to you, tell her to stay away or you will move out. When she replies that you will move out anyway tell her that you will move out faster if she comes any closer
Chapter 11 Art of Clinging
The Art of Clinging to the End of the Mattress without falling off the matrimonial bed while still sharing it with your spouse.
Chapter 12 Advanced lessons
This is usually reserved for those in more difficult situations, where the LBS has responded not by tossing you out, threatening to leave, or filing for divorce, but instead persists in not only OFFERING to cooperate, but actually MAKING THE CHANGES you said you needed.
"I am tired of living like this/I don't want to live like this anymore/I am not going to live my life like this?" often is coupled with another advanced tactic, "It's not you, it's me".
This line is most effective AFTER the LBS has jumped through hoops and bent over backwards. It basically confirms that no matter what changes the LBS is willing to make, the incompatibility lies within the MLCer, who has no intention of, or implied desire or ability to, compromise.
Appendix
HOW TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE THINK SHE IS CRAZY
1. When confronted by the evidence of an EA or PA, become very indignant. Stress that the LBS is obviously just a jealous sob/bi*ch, and you are entitled to "buddies" of the opposite sex.
2. Never, ever answer the question, "Are you okay? Is there something wrong?" with a direct answer that might actually lead to a discussion that might help the marriage. Continue to never talk to spouse, never give her/him a personal compliment or touch of affection and by all means work on the "cling to the edge of the mattress to avoid touching" manoeuvre that is so successful in making your spouse crazy.
3. Always bear in mind that your spouse will expect you to want to at least give them the chance to "fix" the marriage. Since you have already checked out emotionally (of course NEVER tell them that!), you are under no obligation to actually listen to anything they say or acknowledge anything they do. This tactic is also extremely beneficial when they employ the MLC diet. When they lose a massive amount of weight and you are in ear shot of someone who mentions to spouse about the weight loss, say "Are you losing weight? Why don't you ever tell me things?"
4. Of course one of the most successful ways to drive them crazy may only be used when you have earned the MLC Black Belt. Go to marriage counselling for months, let them pour out their soul to you and the counsellor and let them believe they are actually accomplishing something. Then arrange things so the spouse finds you in your own home with OP. This will accomplish two things: a. She will finally have to understand how lucky you are to have found your "soul mate" and b. She will be doubly betrayed because she thought you were actually working on the marriage.
DON'T LET YOUR SPOUSE GET TOO INDEPENDENT - STATEGIES FOR SUCKING YOUR SPOUSE BACK IN
1. Make negative comments about OP or the chances that the relationship with OP will succeed. HOWEVER, under no circumstances, make any commitment to end the relationship with OP.
2. Make veiled hints about suicide or excessive drinking or drug use. Be erratic and hard to contact.
3. Do random acts of kindness such as yard work or something. That will keep your spouse confused and hopeful.
4. Make vague comments hinting that things might work out between you and your spouse IN THE FUTURE. HOWEVER, under no circumstances take any actions to work anything out.
CUSTODY Using the kids to your advantage.
If you have children, they can be extremely useful for inducing fear and panic in your spouse. Recommended phrases include, "You're poisoning my kids against me", "You put that idea into their heads", and "You need to do [insert pertinent action here] for the sake of the kids'." Remember, your spouse, being a responsible and loving person, is not only trying to cope with his/her own feelings, but trying to protect the children, and you can use that to your advantage.
Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. It doesn't matter if you feed them ice cream for breakfast and have them watch "Hellboy" when they asked for "Veggie Tales", you Just Wanted To Make Them Happy, and since YOU are the best judge of Happiness, that makes you Super Parent. You can use this opportunity to trash talk your spouse ("Isn't this more fun than what Mommy/Daddy would let you do?" "Mom/Dad doesn't know how to relax.") which of course, will be repeated back to your spouse so you get the benefit of destroying their self-esteem second hand.
Highly advanced MLCers may want to start casually using the word Custody, but be very, very careful. While useful for sending your spouse into a state of panic, you certainly do not want to be responsible for a bunch of kids who will seriously cut into your personal fun time. The word Custody should only be used in a casual tone of voice for the most devastating effect.
BUTTON PUSHING
You (the mlcer) know a lot about your spouse. You know what pushes their buttons to get them both upset and/or happy. You have the power, you can do it! So using the kids to upset them is fair game (see section on how to use "custody" to upset them but not take on the "custody"). And if that ever stops working, find something else. Suggestions might include pets, valuables in the home, their appearance, family, career. Nothing is out of your reach since you have put in so many years getting to know your spouse--use what you know.
THE BLAME GAME
By now, you should be aware that all of this MUST be your spouses fault, however, your spouse may not understand this completely yet, so you need to start planting the seeds.
There are several ingenious ways to put the blame on your spouse, and we will be exploring them all.
Method 1: The Non-Blame Statement
I'm trying not to blame YOU
This statement implies that you are "not putting the blame on them" but on closer look (which your spouse is guaranteed to be doing) The words actually put all of the blame on the spouse (where of course we know it belongs).
Method 2: The Passive Blame Statement
I don't think that I can live with you. My opinion never mattered to you. I cant' live like this. We rarely have fun anymore. I don't want to live this way anymore. (There are many more I'm sure you can think of)
These are passive statements that don't actually assign blame to your spouse, but your spouse will definitely get the idea if you use them. They can't help but see that it MUST be them that makes you feel this way.
Method 3: The Direct Blame Statement
You never listen to me. You never put creases in my pants. You use bagged salad. You never keep the house clean. You are going to do it your way.
All of these are direct statements of blame. You should mix actual faults with things that don't really matter to make it more confusing, and make your spouse feel as bad as possible about themselves.
Your spouse has probably already started doing the hard work to look inside his/herself (Yuck, what an awful thought!) and will take on all of the faults you list to try and correct them. This will keep them occupied for awhile, and you can avoid any serious relationship talks while they apologize for and try to fix all of their own faults. Make sure that you don't actually accept the apology, that way you can continue to bring the fault up which will slow down their self improvement process. Remember, they are working on becoming better human beings, and you wouldn't want that to happen to fast, as that would interfere with your ability to string them along.
Note: NEVER ACTUALLY ADMIT TO ANY FAULTS OF YOUR OWN!!!! REMEMBER, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! YOU ARE THE GOOD ONE, AND HAD THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, LIE, SPEND MONEY, OR ANY OTHER THING, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BAD!!!
let's not forget "We're just incompatible - we always were."
Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL. If all else fails, put the LBS down for being so willing to change herself for your needs. Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL."
How to keep you spouse guessing...be mean one minute threatening divorce, etc then next day be kind and sweet almost the way your spouse remembers you..rinse repeat....
HOW TO CONTINUE THE CRAZINESS ONCE SEPARATION/DIVORCE IS AGREED UPON
1. Even though by now you, dear MLCer, have done everything human possibly to convince your spouse that you do not love him/her and want out, when the time comes to actually file, DON"T DO IT! This is the coup de gras of MLC. Absolutely DO NOT TAKE THE INITIATIVE. This is a most vital and awesome crazy-maker. Holding out will force your by now totally devastated spouse to finally throw up his/her hands and seek legal counsel.
2. Once the LBS has had enough and decides that divorce is in their best interest, you have won HUGE points here. Refusing to be the one to file now puts YOU in the role of victim, bringing you all the attention and pity necessary to allow you to again regain your image of the abused one in all this. Now you can, with absolutely NO guilt, tell everyone the divorce was your LBS's idea (which of COURSE it was!) and they will assume that: a. the LBS lost all that weight and obviously has been involved in an affair, and b. the marriage ended because your LBS spouse is going through a -
YES! THE PINNACLE OF CRAZINESS! - Midlife Crisis!!
Wayward lurker, have you ever wondered if a divorce will harm your children? It is *** wishful thinking *** to imagine your adultery/divorce will not have dire consequences for your kids.
The following statement is a popular myth that waywards tell themselves:
"The kids will be happy only if I am happy."
You can try to assuage your guilt by telling yourself "Kids are resilient" .... but telling yourself lies will not help anyone. Least of all your children.
Be honest. Adultery harms children. Divorce harms children.
Get a grip on your life and call Dr Harley for a roadmap out of this mess called ADULTERY.
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.
I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.
Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
Unfaithful LURKERS who's affair/adultery situation is " special " .... Please take notes.
The following is an ACTUAL post written by a wayward husband who found his way to MB after his long suffering betrayed wife had had "enough".
His words are written in black. My translations are written in red.
Originally Posted by Pepperband
PLEASE TAKE WITH A HUGE GRAIN OF SALT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ About 4 months ago, I fell for OW who is a teacher at my school.
About 4 months ago I decided to become a liar and a cheat
Within a little over 3 weeks, we had decided that we had to leave our spouses (she was married for six months) and be together.
I am prone to impulsive choices and capable of throwing my life away on a whim.
I told my W and OW told her H on the same night.
Please notice - I make NO MENTION of how my wife reacted to having me shoot her through the heart. I was not paying attention to my wife's feeling as I was shredding her soul.
It was EA until we left our spouses and then became a PE that night.
I could become sexually aroused with another man's wife while my own wife was emotionally hemorrhaging at home.
We stayed together for ten days and then I felt like I wanted to go back to my W and so I left the OW in a hotel room and went back to my W.
I do not mention remorse or responsibility - because I only want what I WANT - I WANT - I WANT
I cried like a baby that whole day and my W was so sweet and compassionate and caring.
Again - I am impulsive and only talk about MY FEELINGS MY FEELINGS MY FEELINGS
She took care of me and then the next day I went back to work, where I saw OW. I told my W that I needed space alone to clear my head and she told me to do whatever I needed to make myself better.
I returned to the heroin den and decided to take more heroin - because I WANTED TO - and no thought about breaking my wife's heart.
I lived in a back house alone for two days and then contacted OW and she spent a few days with me and my W had no idea.
I brought the heroin to my wife's home and drugged myself and lied about it. Aren't I cool?
Then I met with my W and told her that I wanted a D.
I told my W I wanted a D - but I forgot to notice my wife's reactions to this heart-breaking announcement.
I then semi-moved in with OW, but felt unsure of myself and sad.
My sadness matters. My wife's broken heart is not even on my radar.
I called my W a lot and talked with her and it felt good to be in contact with her.
I fail to mention how my wife felt because it does not matter to me, as long as it made ME feel good I would continue to abuse my wife's good nature and her love for me.
I then told the OW that I wanted to be back with my W and so I started sneaking around W's house leaving anonymous love notes, clues, etc. She caught me one morning and asked what I wanted. I told her I wanted to be with her forever. We moved back in together.
Now I find myself giddy with the affection of 2 women who both want ME ME ME ME ME ME. I get to go from one to the other making promises I cannot keep. I am high as a kite.
She wanted me to quit my job, but I said I couldn't.
Who cares what my wife wants? I sure don't.
I then started seeing OW at work in passing and more and more wanted to contact OW.
I wanted the affections of 2 women to continue. It's nice. I like it.
My W really wanted me to quit my job and I started to purposely distance myself from my W.
I mean, really, why should my wife be rewarded for her fidelity, her loyalty, her forgiveness, her care, her concern, her willingness to take me back after the most hurtful betrayal imaginable? It's better for me to hurt her more by DISTANCING myself and twisting the knife.
At this point, my W started reading from this website and she wanted me to go with plan A, but I jumped on the plan B alternative, saying I still needed time to think.
But, that was a lie, because I clearly am not thinking, only getting high.
Meanwhile, the OW and I started contacting each other via email at work.
I was rolling in cake, covered in frosting, gluttony and lust and coveting another man's wife. It was wonderful!
Weirdly, once my W and I decided that I should move out, we started cuddling with each other at night and I felt oddly close to her and like I wanted to show her my love for her.
I was rolling in cake, covered in frosting, gluttony and lust and happily and joyfully deceiving my good wife once more. It was wonderful!
But, I was also contacting OW and telling her that I needed to end my M if I ever was going to be with her.
C A K E C A K E C A K E - everywhere I see cake and I dive in face first!
However, OW and I were also sending sexual emails back and forth and it was exciting, but I also felt terrible for doing it.
In fact, I felt so terrible I continued to do it! Go figure!
The whole time, my W was reading my emails.
Do I mention how this must have made her feel? No, I do not, because it never occurred to me to consider my wife's feelings. CAKE CAKE CAKE
After I moved out and was living in our old house (during the time we were trying to reconcile, we moved into another place and once we decided on Plan B, I stopped moving my stuff, clothes mainly, and stayed in the old house we were renting), I sent a reply email to the OW about celebrating her birthday and how I loved her and mentioned something sexual.
Oops - this time I forgot to mention how "terrible" I felt doing this .... uh-huh!
My W read this email and called me over to her new place. She was furious and told me that she wanted a Divorce. I couldn't say anything. She was right. I had lied and cheated and I was a terrible husband and I kept hurting her and I couldn't quit my job and re-devote myself to her. So, the next day at school I was served D papers.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaa Mommie - where did my cake go?
In a way, I was secretly hoping that she would divorce me because I was not man enough to do it.
In fact, I TOLD her I wanted a divorce - remember? And I wanted my wife to do things for me as I was still stomping all over her heart .... YOU do the divorce dear, I'm busy boinking another man's wife. You don't mind, do you?
That was two weeks ago. I have been in contact with the OW and we have had dinner and been intimate a couple times.
Notice I never mention her HUSBAND, or his broken heart? I am really a good person though - you haven't walked in my shoes - you don't know what it's like - don't judge me - .... What was I talking about? .... Oh, yes, her husband .... Now let's talk about me some more .....
I can't decide if my wife was right, am I addicted to the OW?
Am I a good man? Am I a good person? Please don't let my vile behavior and callousness lessen your opinion of me.
Now, the OW is worried I am pulling away from her, because I have been.
This is not adultery in OW's mind - so the fact that I am pulling away from a married woman feels like a betrayal to OW - another man's wife.
I have been so sad the past week. I cry (full-on sobs, fall to the ground in pain crying) two to three times a day.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
I keep picturing everything that has happened and it feels me with the most terrible pain.
MY PAIN MY HURT MY TEARS MY CONFUSION MY FEELINGS
I love my W so much and for some reason, I did all this horrible stuff to her.
I love my wife so much that for some reason I don't mention *ONCE* her emotional well being or her pain. Oh well ....
Our M, pre-A was good.
No thanks to me.
I kept everything bottled up though so she had no idea what was going on with me and she is still reeling from me leaving her for OW.
Shucks! I slipped and mentioned my wife's feelings .... I better not make this a habit. Now , back to me and my feelings .... sorry for the slight detour!
I am at the point where I am contemplating quitting my job and begging for my W to take me back.
I want my betrayed wife to guarantee she will take me back BEFORE I end things with OW or take any steps to change jobs.
I get very sad when I think about it though because of how hard and uncomfortable it will be.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
I also think about how everyone tells me to leave my W alone and that we both need to move on.
But really, the best solution FOR ME is to keep both women thinking I am just about to decide to spend the rest of my life with her ....
I worry that I would quit my job and go back to my W and she would not take me back.
Why should my wife have a choice here? Has she no consideration for MY feelings?
Or, our M would be too damaged to repair.
Or, it would require me to do some difficult things I don't feel like doing and things that make me have to consider the feelings of others.
I worry about her family and friends hating me forever and having to be around them.
I do have my reputation and my feelings to consider, yanno?
I worry about quitting my job and disappointing my students and the other teachers that would have to pick up my slack.
Because even though my personal life has been a complete disaster - none of this has hampered my ability to concentrate on my students - no, really - I am an extraordinary teacher - really, I am.
I also worry about quitting my job during a recession.
Too bad I did not think about this before I dipped my pen into the work inkwell.
At times I think I should not go back to my W and beg for forgiveness unless I am 100% sure that I do not love the OW.
Does this make sense? I need 100% clarity that I do not love another man's wife BEFORE I ask forgiveness from MY OWN wife. I am an extraordinary teacher - did I mention that?
Sometimes, I feel like I really love the OW and I am afraid that I will ruin a future life with her if I stop contacting her.
If I stop contacting OW (another man's wife) I might miss out on some tasty cake. And with my sweet tooth, well, I deserve it.
Am I just grieving the end of my marriage and that is why I am entertaining the idea of quitting my job to return to my wife?
See, I am grieving for myself - and no one else.
I go to therapy twice a week (for the past month and a half) and I see no improvement.
Do you think I should stop lying to the therapist?
I am still scared and pathetic, sad and confused.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
I am so mad at myself for everything I have done to my W.
So mad in fact that I just sent a sexy text to OW (another man's wife).
I worry about her all the time and I feel like I want to keep her from anymore pain and go back to her.
I worry she and OW will both recognize how pathetic I am and both throw me into the ditch at the same time. I must move carefully here - if I want my cake to remain within reach.
But, what if I cause more pain?
What if I can't stop contacting the other man's wife?
What if she needs me to go away and not bother her so she can get stronger?
I'll throw her a bone - say what she wants to hear - and then when she's not looking - sneak around some more.
She did file for D, so I don't even know if she would take me back even if I quit my job, and then I could be without a job and without a home, without a wife.
I deserve a job, a home, a wife .... and an OW (another man's wife).
I know that had I not met the OW, we would be happy still and I would still be bottling things up and not talking to her about my EN's, but she would not be hurt, and I would not hate myself like I do now.
We were happy with me bottling things up, my lack of communication skills worked for us. What if my EN is having 2 women both wanting me? I think I hate myself because I can't have it all - I can't make a choice - I don't want to give up anything ....
What do I do?
Should I call OW's husband and apologize? WHAT? I don't even register him as a human being - why should I care about HIM? That's just silly
How do I get past what I have done?
And by "get past" , I mean pay no consequences.
This wayward/unfaithful fool is not "special". His delusional thinking errors are common. It's difficult for the foggy wayward/adultery-drunk spouse to see how really D.U.M.B. they are.
I sincerely hope this helps clear some fog for at least a few UNFAITHFUL LURKERS.
It's funny to read, HOWEVER it's also true that this fool lost his marriage. And that is NOT FUNNY. What a stupid waste.
WELCOME TO MARRIAGE BUILDERS WHERE WE WILL SOUND THE FOG-HORN TO HELP YOU CLEAR YOUR MIND.
This post is really REALLYREALLY excellent advice to a female (SKK) still wayward-wife, from a male former wayward husband (GloveOil) who has a fully recovered marriage.
Originally Posted by GloveOil
SKK, speaking to you as a man who had an affair 3 & a half years ago & who almost wrecked a wonderful marriage on account of it, indulge me for a moment while I unpack this for you with the benefit of some hindsight & perspective which you (to put it diplomatically) might yet someday acquire, with effort & thoughtfulness, if you so choose:
Originally Posted by SKK
I have had a sexual affair with a friends husband for the past 6 months. The sex has been extremely fulfilling, and this man has made me feel physical pleasure that I have not experienced before. My husband and I are in our mid 40's and have been married 19 years with two children. The other man has effectively ended the affair as he thought I was becoming too emotionally involved. Yes, I probably was. I think it's almost impossible for a woman to have sex without some level of emotion. I am ok with the affair ending. I knew it was wrong and eventually there would have been a lot of hurt and pain if it had been discovered. I am now working on rebuilding my marriage with my husband...
Working on rebuilding? How so? Rebuilding depends upon a foundation of truth. You have determined to try to "rebuild" upon a foundation that's hollowed-out from the get-go by the ongoing deception that you have decided to maintain. You think your husband doesn't sense that you're not being honest, transparent or open with him? What effect do you think that has on his willingness to make himself vulnerable to you? Do you think it's been a positive effect?
Originally Posted by SKK
...but I am finding that I am continually thinking about this other man. ...
Two thoughts can't occupy the same point in time, SKK. If you're continually thinking about your affair-partner, then you're not thinking about your husband, and not thinking about investing in your marriage. Marriage needs to be a full-time endeavor for it to work. You need to be all-in, not one foot (or one thought) on the boat and one foot (or thought) on the shore. Mentally, you continue to think about the other man more because you have not made a serious effort to foreclose to yourself the possibility of rekindling the affair at some future point. You can foreclose this by confessing to your husband and to the other man's wife, and by implementing a strict policy of no contact, for life. If you are serious about wanting to fix your marriage, that's what you'll do. Otherwise, you'll only be pretending (badly) to be serious.
Originally Posted by SKK
...Sex with my husband is not as fulfilling to me any more. ...
Funny, in your ill-fated post of 6 months ago, you said it was OK. So did your affair have a beneficial effect on sex in your marriage? I guess not. Now that's a shocker, there, isn't it? Did you buy into the commonly-held cultural myth that having an affair can shore up a marriage?
Originally Posted by SKK
...My husband has become a grumpy man, he spends most evenings working, and is short tempered with our children, ESP has little patience with our 12 year old daughter, whm he simply doesn't seem to connect with. ...
For the love of God, please stop with the "children" bit. Can you please answer: --Were you connecting with your daughter when you had your other man between your legs? --Were you being attentive to your children while you were texting and talking with him to set up each clandestine rendezvous? --Did you spend quality time with your daughter when you were en route to & from him? Of course not. Please just stop and listen to your own hypocrisy. As a parent who was guilty of the same sort of neglect, it makes me vomit. It should give you the same pause. Alleging that your spouse is a poor and neglectful parent to your children, when you have conspired to cuckold their father and maintain an ongoing deception against him, and when you spent months thinking foremost of your own satisfaction, is dishonorable, base and mean in the most pejorative senses of those words. Please do not continue with this line of discussion, except perhaps to apologize to every parent here. On this point, you are throwing stones from the cantilevered balcony of a glass house. You have no standing to criticize his parenting at this time. Just please stop, now.
Originally Posted by SKK
...How do I ssaints this marriage? I don't want to be with my ex lover, and he clearly wants to stay with his wife and family, but I am feeling very lonely and unloved, ignored even - most likely the very same feelings that led me to look outside my marriage for attention 6 months ago. ...
How about doing a mental, back-of-the-envelope calcuation to add up all the time that you have spent investing in your relationship with the other man. Your thougts of him, your conversations with him, your electronic correspondence, and the time you spent together, the time you spent traveling back and forth, and the time and mental energy you invested in keeping up your alibis and cover stories in order to maintain the deception. Add it all up. Over 6 months, I'll bet it came to a considerable number of hours, if not weeks' worth of time from your life. That is time that you could have invested in your relationship with your husband, but chose not to. Do you think your husband did not sense that he was no longer your first priority during this time? How do you think that may have affected his comfort level in investing emotionally in you?
Originally Posted by SKK
... How long do I work on this marriage? ...
A better question to ask is, when will you start working on the marriage? Hint: You start from the point of honesty. You're not there yet. You have not even begun to work on rebuilding this marriage. You have not been working on this marriage for at least half a year now.
Originally Posted by SKK
When do I say that I cannot live like this any longer.... We have grown apart n an emotional level. My husband rarely seems happy any more...
As I said, you have not yet begun to work.
The work of recovering a marriage begins with ending the affair properly (see links that have been posted to you by other posters), and it starts with honesty, with simple truth.
And the good news is, it can work. I'm living proof. The fact that my wife & I will celebrate our 20th anniversary later this month, more in love than ever, when it could've been all over before #17, is proof. But it has to start with honesty, and with humility to begin to see one's own shortcomings with some sense of perspective. Marital recovery needs to be a 2-way street, and if it is to work, then yes, at some point he will need to be willing to acknowledge ways in which he hasn't met your needs and to strive to improve upon that. But it needs to start from a foundation of truth -- there's no other way to marital intimacy.
You want to save your marriage? Then come clean. Get honest with your husband. Then come back and we'll walk you through the rest of it. If you're at all serious about this, that is.
Marriage Builders works. Cheating & lying are not marriage recovery tools.
Register and start posting to get REAL help. Glove Oil and many, many others can steer you down the MB path to recovery.
Why not give MARRIAGE BUILDERS a whirl? Obviously, what YOU are doing is a failure. What's the first thing you do when you find yourself digging a giant hole, and you are becoming trapped?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Dr. Harley said on the radio show the other day. There are three kinds of marriages.
1. The ones that both follow POJA and PORH and don't come here because they are living it
2. One spouse is trying to follow the program and the other spouse doesn't(these are the most he hears from)
3. The couple that even he can't help because they want to do their own thing
"It WORKS it you WORK it" <~~~ A well-worn AA slogan.
This post is really REALLYREALLY excellent advice to a female (SKK) still wayward-wife, from a male former wayward husband (GloveOil) who has a fully recovered marriage.
Originally Posted by GloveOil
SKK, speaking to you as a man who had an affair 3 & a half years ago & who almost wrecked a wonderful marriage on account of it, indulge me for a moment while I unpack this for you with the benefit of some hindsight & perspective which you (to put it diplomatically) might yet someday acquire, with effort & thoughtfulness, if you so choose:
Originally Posted by SKK
I have had a sexual affair with a friends husband for the past 6 months. The sex has been extremely fulfilling, and this man has made me feel physical pleasure that I have not experienced before. My husband and I are in our mid 40's and have been married 19 years with two children. The other man has effectively ended the affair as he thought I was becoming too emotionally involved. Yes, I probably was. I think it's almost impossible for a woman to have sex without some level of emotion. I am ok with the affair ending. I knew it was wrong and eventually there would have been a lot of hurt and pain if it had been discovered. I am now working on rebuilding my marriage with my husband...
Working on rebuilding? How so? Rebuilding depends upon a foundation of truth. You have determined to try to "rebuild" upon a foundation that's hollowed-out from the get-go by the ongoing deception that you have decided to maintain. You think your husband doesn't sense that you're not being honest, transparent or open with him? What effect do you think that has on his willingness to make himself vulnerable to you? Do you think it's been a positive effect?
Originally Posted by SKK
...but I am finding that I am continually thinking about this other man. ...
Two thoughts can't occupy the same point in time, SKK. If you're continually thinking about your affair-partner, then you're not thinking about your husband, and not thinking about investing in your marriage. Marriage needs to be a full-time endeavor for it to work. You need to be all-in, not one foot (or one thought) on the boat and one foot (or thought) on the shore. Mentally, you continue to think about the other man more because you have not made a serious effort to foreclose to yourself the possibility of rekindling the affair at some future point. You can foreclose this by confessing to your husband and to the other man's wife, and by implementing a strict policy of no contact, for life. If you are serious about wanting to fix your marriage, that's what you'll do. Otherwise, you'll only be pretending (badly) to be serious.
Originally Posted by SKK
...Sex with my husband is not as fulfilling to me any more. ...
Funny, in your ill-fated post of 6 months ago, you said it was OK. So did your affair have a beneficial effect on sex in your marriage? I guess not. Now that's a shocker, there, isn't it? Did you buy into the commonly-held cultural myth that having an affair can shore up a marriage?
Originally Posted by SKK
...My husband has become a grumpy man, he spends most evenings working, and is short tempered with our children, ESP has little patience with our 12 year old daughter, whm he simply doesn't seem to connect with. ...
For the love of God, please stop with the "children" bit. Can you please answer: --Were you connecting with your daughter when you had your other man between your legs? --Were you being attentive to your children while you were texting and talking with him to set up each clandestine rendezvous? --Did you spend quality time with your daughter when you were en route to & from him? Of course not. Please just stop and listen to your own hypocrisy. As a parent who was guilty of the same sort of neglect, it makes me vomit. It should give you the same pause. Alleging that your spouse is a poor and neglectful parent to your children, when you have conspired to cuckold their father and maintain an ongoing deception against him, and when you spent months thinking foremost of your own satisfaction, is dishonorable, base and mean in the most pejorative senses of those words. Please do not continue with this line of discussion, except perhaps to apologize to every parent here. On this point, you are throwing stones from the cantilevered balcony of a glass house. You have no standing to criticize his parenting at this time. Just please stop, now.
Originally Posted by SKK
...How do I ssaints this marriage? I don't want to be with my ex lover, and he clearly wants to stay with his wife and family, but I am feeling very lonely and unloved, ignored even - most likely the very same feelings that led me to look outside my marriage for attention 6 months ago. ...
How about doing a mental, back-of-the-envelope calcuation to add up all the time that you have spent investing in your relationship with the other man. Your thougts of him, your conversations with him, your electronic correspondence, and the time you spent together, the time you spent traveling back and forth, and the time and mental energy you invested in keeping up your alibis and cover stories in order to maintain the deception. Add it all up. Over 6 months, I'll bet it came to a considerable number of hours, if not weeks' worth of time from your life. That is time that you could have invested in your relationship with your husband, but chose not to. Do you think your husband did not sense that he was no longer your first priority during this time? How do you think that may have affected his comfort level in investing emotionally in you?
Originally Posted by SKK
... How long do I work on this marriage? ...
A better question to ask is, when will you start working on the marriage? Hint: You start from the point of honesty. You're not there yet. You have not even begun to work on rebuilding this marriage. You have not been working on this marriage for at least half a year now.
Originally Posted by SKK
When do I say that I cannot live like this any longer.... We have grown apart n an emotional level. My husband rarely seems happy any more...
As I said, you have not yet begun to work.
The work of recovering a marriage begins with ending the affair properly (see links that have been posted to you by other posters), and it starts with honesty, with simple truth.
And the good news is, it can work. I'm living proof. The fact that my wife & I will celebrate our 20th anniversary later this month, more in love than ever, when it could've been all over before #17, is proof. But it has to start with honesty, and with humility to begin to see one's own shortcomings with some sense of perspective. Marital recovery needs to be a 2-way street, and if it is to work, then yes, at some point he will need to be willing to acknowledge ways in which he hasn't met your needs and to strive to improve upon that. But it needs to start from a foundation of truth -- there's no other way to marital intimacy.
You want to save your marriage? Then come clean. Get honest with your husband. Then come back and we'll walk you through the rest of it. If you're at all serious about this, that is.
Marriage Builders works. Cheating & lying are not marriage recovery tools.
Register and start posting to get REAL help. Glove Oil and many, many others can steer you down the MB path to recovery.
The people here represent men and women trying to improve their marriages. Many have just begun, others are veterans of many years. All struggle with the challenges of marital love; although others have fallen into deceit and betrayal. When infidelity enters the relationship, we have here both betrayed(faithful) spouses (BS) and betrayers(waywards)(WS) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP), and all filled with pain.
All of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB). Initially the acronyms/abbreviations are overwhelming... check out a summary of them here Abbreviations-Acronyms There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the Marriage Builder's Home Page.
Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a sound understanding of Plan A and Plan B is crucial! For most everyone... Plan A... is an excellent starting point!
You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the Articles and Infidelity Q&A. The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the MB Bookstore... of most important for those marriages involving infidelity, or soon to be, is "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley. This is the 'bible' for this forum. Other books can be very useful as well... like "His Needs, Her Needs", "Love Busters", and "Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility". There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around.
Most of all... you will find compassion and love here. As an open forum there will always be some who come here not to help, but with other agendas; however, the vast majority of "members" do not judge... are not demeaning... and have no malice of heart! There are many who are here to simply help... and this includes not just for those betrayed... but the waywards as well! The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness. We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity. Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, deep depression, and on and on... Again, these are felt not just by those betrayed... but in time by the waywards too. Even when no infidelity is involved, similar feelings in marriages gone astray have overwhelmed so many.
Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without support. That's where we come in! We care... because we know how it feels. Believe it... You are not alone! Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!
You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... you are not alone!
There is never any guarantee to save all marriages... life doesn't work that way, unfortunately. The Harley's make no guarantees either... but offer the hope of self-improvement, self-healing and a refocusing of one's self to build esteem... and to live a life of satisfication again! We can, and do guarantee, to give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity.
Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ! Respond to those replying to your post! It encourages them to continue helping!
I've been speaking on behalf of some very dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used "we"! But... if you're here... join with them... they will join with you. We do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice based on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask!
To help us understand your situation a bit better, and for you to get more responses, it is recommended that you provide a "story" of yourself. Consider creating a "signature line" on yourposts that will tell members alittle about you-- WHO you are (BS, WS,etc) How long married,kids, current status, Affairs? How many, how long, with whom, current status of affair? ETC....
---------------------------------------------
There are several 'infidelity' forums to meet the needs of many and allow you to do some more specific posting... Marriage Builders 101 ... the Intro to Marriage Builders with general marriage building help based on Dr Harley's Concepts & Principles In Recovery ...when a commitment to work on marriage by both spouses has begun. Pregnancy/Child ...when the affair has resulted in a pregnancy/child Surviving an Affair ... the most used forum... very active!... very supportive!
There are many other forums... all of which can be reached from the Forums Index --------------------------------------------
Weekends and holidays tend to be slow... ...sometimes, very slow... Be patient with responses then...
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WELCOME TO MARRIAGE BUILDERS!
(originally posted by OneGoing--revised by JustUss to fix links)
DR. WILLARD F. HARLEY, JR. AND DR. JENNIFER HARLEY CHALMERS
Quote
CONTENTS 1. You Can Survive This Affair 9 2. It Could Never Happen to Me! 12 3. How Do Affairs Begin? 27 4. How Do Affairs Usually End? 37 5. How Should Affairs End? 51 6. Preparing for Marital Recovery 67 7. Marital Recovery Guided by The Rule of Protection 89 8. Marital Recovery Guided by The Rule of Care 109 9. Marital Recovery Guided by The Rule of Time 125 10. Marital Recovery Guided by The Rule of Honesty 138 11. ManagingResentmentandRestoringTrust:Completing Marital Recovery Part 1 153 12. RenewingMaritalCommitment:Completing Marital Recovery Part 2 162
Appendices A The Most Important Emotional Needs 173 B Emotional Needs Questionnaire 181 C Personal History Questionnaire 193 D Marital Recovery Agreement 211
About the Authors 217 Books by Dr. Harley 218
From Chapter One:
Quote
YOU CAN SURVIVE THIS AFFAIR If you are a victim of infidelity, you have been on the emotional roller coaster ride of your life. Most couples caught up in the tragedy of an affair tell us that they have never felt such intense emotions. They are overwhelmed by anger, depression, fear, guilt, loneliness, and shame.
A betrayed spouse will ask, How could my spouse do this to me� cheating on me, lying to me over and over again? I can never trust my spouse again. I have so much anger and resentment it scares me. My feelings go way beyond hurt�I can�t even put into words the pain I am feeling.
A wayward spouse often says, I used to beg my spouse for more attention but I never beg anymore�my lover gives me all the attention I need. But I don�t know if the attention I�m getting is worth the price. One moment I�m sure I�ve done the right thing. Then I look into the faces of my children and I�m not sure anymore. I don�t want to give up my family but if I give up my lover, I�ll be losing the best thing that ever happened to me. What should I do? I�m an emotional wreck! When a couple feel such strong emotions, many question if marital reconciliation is possible. How can we ever recover from such pain? And even if we recover, can we live with the memory of betrayal? Can we ever trust each other again? Can we ever love each other again?
From Chapter One:
Quote
If you are a wayward spouse or a betrayed spouse, you may be undecided as to what to do next. One moment you want to divorce your spouse, and the next you want to try to reconcile. That�s the way most people in your situation feel because there are advantages and disadvantages to both choices. Divorce carries with it the destruction of a family and the loss of a spouse you may still love, and yet reconciliation means you will be living with the scars of betrayal and the risk of another affair. Your emotional reactions may be so strong that you simply cannot make the choice right now.
Even if you have decided that marital reconciliation is impossible, or if it�s only you or only your spouse who wants to survive the affair and restore your marriage, I would like you to consider my strategy for recovery. It has proven successful for thousands of couples, and once you understand its objectives, you may be willing to try it. My plan is that narrow path that gets you beyond the affair, helps you make your marriage better than it�s ever been, and protects you from future affairs.
Time to own it, time to claim responsibility, time to hold yourself accountable!!!!!!
No more, I was manipulated.
No more, I was taken advantage of.
No more, I was lonely.
No more, I was mistreated.
No more, my needs were not being met.
Stop playing the victim!!!!!!!! Once you take responsibility for your choices you can move on to recovery. If you are still feeling justified, you can not move ahead.
I will NOT give OM any credit in my choice to have an A. It was my choice, he did not have a gun to my head, I'm smarter than his smooth talk, I'm smarter than his manipulation, he did not win me over. I chose it, because of who I was. Not because of who he was. Would I chose it again, not on your life!!!
I am owning my Affair. I am taking responsibility for it. It was ME, not my H's neglect, not OM, it was ME!!!!!!!!!!
I'm asking all other WS, to claim responsibility, to hold yourself accountable, to know that it was all YOU, and move on to working on you, to make sure this doesn't happen again. Find out why you chose to have an A, and improve on yourself.
Rebuild yourself and your M. Stand up and say,"I" made a mistake, I am sorry, and I will lead my life differently so I do not repeat history.
When you have taking control, when you have stopped pointing the finger, when you own it, you can then move on from it. I really feel this is a pivotal step to recovering a better you and a better Marriage.
Once I stopped being the victim of my H's past behavior, and of the OM's lure, I was able to really embrace my mistake, and work through it, and see me for who I was at the time. I was able to see how my character flaws played such a huge part in my choice to have this A.
I'm in no way saying be proud of what you did. Just in case somebody misunderstands me. I'm just saying, admit your failures, admit it was you and your choice alone, admit there is something about you, that needs to be improved.
No more victims, WS & FWS. It was a very bad choice we made, but it was our choice, stand up and claim it.
I had an Affair because of my character flaws, and I'm taking steps everyday to create a better me for myself and for my H, so our marriage can be blissful and affair proof.
BS, step aside and allow them to take full responsibilty for this. I know it is less painful to think OP had control, your S failed you, it is they who need to be held acountable.
I miss Pep. I just noticed her "taking a break" thread in other topics but hope she comes back soon. Until then, we can all benefit from bumping some of her wisdom.
I miss Pep. I just noticed her "taking a break" thread in other topics but hope she comes back soon. Until then, we can all benefit from bumping some of her wisdom.
I have been a long time reader of this site and must admit that advice given to all the people really helped me a lot.
I thought that today I will share with you something that I received from a friend which says a lot.
Interesting quote from the movie "Why did I get married?"
In most cases, especially in relationships, you will only get 80% of what you NEED and you will hardly get the other 20% that you WANT in your relationship. There is always another person (man or women) that you will meet and that will offer you the other 20% which is lacking in your relationship that you WANT
And believe me, 20% looks really good when you are not getting it at all in your current relationship.
But the problem is that you will always be tempted to leave that good 80% that you know you have, thinking that you will get something better with the other 20% that you WANT
But as reality has proven, in most cases, you will always end up with having the 20% that you WANT and loosing the 80% that you really NEED and that you already had.
Be careful in deciding between what you WANT and NEED in your life.
Adultery happens when you start looking for what you don't have. "Wow, this girl in my office is a real looker. But it's not her Wynona Rider features that got me. I'm crazy about her because she's also understanding, intelligent, tender - so many things that my spouse is not"
Somewhere along the way, you'll find a woman or a man who will be more charming or sensitive. More alluring. More thoughtful. Richer. Have greater sex appeal. And you will find a woman or man who will need you and pursue you and go loco over you more than your spouse ever did.
Because no wife or husband is perfect. Because a spouse will only have 80% of what you're looking for. So adultery takes place when a husband or wife looks for the missing 20%. Let's say your wife is melancholic by nature.
You may find yourself drawn to the pretty clerk who has a cherry laugh no matter what she says: "I broke my arm yesterday, Hahahaha . . .."
Or because your wife is a homebody in slippers and pajamas, smelling of garlic and fish oil, you may fall for a fresh-smelling young sales representative that visits your office in a sharp black blazer, high heels, and a red pencil-cut skirt Or because your husband is the quiet type, your heart may skip a beat when you meet an old college flame who has the makings of a talk show host.
But wait! That's only 20% of what you don't have.
Don't throw away the 80% that you already have!
That's not all. Add to your spouse's 80% the 100% that represents all the years that you have been with each other. The storms you have weathered together. The unforgettable moments of sadness and joy as a couple. The many adjustments you have made to love the other. The wealth of memories that you've accumulated as lovers.
Adultery happens when you start looking for what you don't have.
But faithfulness happens when you start thanking God for what you already have.
But I'm not just talking about marriage.
I'm talking about life!
About your jobs. About your friends. About your children. About your lifestyles.
Are you like the economy airline passenger that perennially peeks through the door of the first class cabin, obsessed with what he's missing? "They have got more leg room! Oh my, their food is served in porcelain! Wow, their seats recline at an 80% angle and they've got personal videos!"
I guarantee you'll be miserable for the entire trip! Don't live your life like that. Forget about what the world says is first class. Do you know that there are many first class passengers who are miserable in first class -- because they are not riding in a private Lear Jet?
The main message???
If you start appreciating what you have right now, wherever you are, you are first class!
Escaping the Jaws of Infidelity: How to Avoid an Affair
Letter #1
Introduction: Most of the letters I receive are from people whose spouses are having an affair. Affairs destroy families and the innocent spouses don't know how to respond to the unfolding tragedy they witness. But once in a while I receive a letter from someone who is about to have an affair, and wants help in how to avoid it. This week, I am printing their letters and my answers. Quite frankly, the only one who can avoid an affair is the one that is about to have one. While his or her spouse can make the job easier or more difficult, the spouse can't avoid it for them. So these letters from those who are tempted get to the heart of the issue, how to avoid an affair.
Dear Dr. Harley,
I have been married almost seven years to a wonderful man who treats me like a queen. I was pregnant when my husband and I got married, but I never experienced the passion for him that I know I can feel for a man. We now have four children and he has been a solid foundation for our relationship and our family. He has done whatever he can do to make me happy. I do not deserve him....
I am a very aggressive woman in my mid 30's, I love to party, dance and laugh. My husband, on the other hand is very passive and serious. He's just not much fun. The problem: I am gravitating towards an older man in his late 40's. A man with a tremendous zest for life, who too is married, and in the same business as myself. I have not had sex with this man, but I feel as though I am falling in love.
I am overwhelmed with guilt...I know that I am a horrible wife for feeling this way..PLEASE HELP!!
N.S. Dear N.S.
The man you are attracted to is meeting one or more of your emotional needs much better than your husband does. From your description he seems to be meeting your needs for conversation and recreational companionship. You have such a good time when you're with him that his account in your Love Bank has reached the threshold that triggers the feeling of romantic love.
It's not uncommon to find a person that does a good job meeting our needs, but it's dangerous when our spouses are doing a bad job. At first, we simply find ourselves in love with this person. If we also love our spouses, we shake it off and move on. But if we are not in love with our spouses, like you, we feel confused as to why we don't have the same feeling toward our spouses. Then, in an effort to make sense of it all, we think we are being cheated by our spouses out of what's rightfully ours, a fulfilling life. We think, if our spouses can't do the job, we have the right to find someone else who can, and we should grab the opportunity while it exists. It may be a once-in-a-lifetime chance.
Many faced with this dilemma are not in your position, where your spouse has dedicated himself to your happiness. They find themselves married to spouses who have ignored them or even abused them. It's much easier to justify an affair under those conditions. But since your husband has tried very hard to give you the best he has, and you have four children who need you to stay together, your feelings of guilt are quite understandable.
Although your husband has put a great deal of effort into making you happy, he has missed the target, apparently right from the beginning. His efforts have been misdirected. He wants to meet your most important emotional needs, but has never learned how. It is not his lack of dedication or good intentions -- it is lack of knowledge. But he can learn to meet your needs as well as anyone, and you can be more in love with him than you've ever been. When that happens, your marriage will be secure.
You are on the brink of an affair, and once you jump in, you may not be able to get yourself out before you have done untold damage to your family. Sooner or later most affairs die out, but in their wake they leave unspeakable pain. Your husband would rather have his hand cut off than go through the agony of your unfaithfulness to him. It is the most cruel decision you could possibly make. Avoid that choice at all costs. Instead, dedicate yourself to training your husband to become the man you've always needed.
First, you should avoid seeing the man at work altogether, and it will mean quitting your job. You are already addicted to him, and your emotions will control your decisions whenever you see each other. It won't be long before you have thought through a justification of your behavior, and then there will be no stopping you. You will lose all perspective and ruin your marriage and family, to say nothing about intentionally hurting a man who cares a great deal for you. Six months after your affair has started you will be so up to your eyeballs in guilt you will be contemplating suicide. Get this man out of your life at all costs!
Then, you should try to come to grips with what it is this man does for you that you need so much you'd risk giving up everything to have it. After you identify what it is about the other man that you find so attractive, try to teach your husband to do whatever it is. I understand personality limitations -- your husband is more passive, while this man is more aggressive, like you. But you should be able to identify your needs, such as conversation and recreational companionship, that can be met regardless of the personality type of the person you are with. I have seen remarkable recoveries of couples just like you with seemingly incompatible personalities. It turned out that their personalities were not incompatible, it was their habits and activities that were incompatible. Once their lifestyle changed, their marriages were terrific.
Four children can do a lot to change your lifestyle and your ability to meet each other's needs. You and your husband should create more privacy in your marriage and set aside time to be alone so that you can meet each other's most important needs. Your husband should be your favorite recreational companion. To give him a fair chance to succeed, make him your ONLY recreational companion for a while. Train him in on the activities you enjoy the most.
My book, Fall In Love, Stay In Love, will teach you to achieve exactly what you need: Compatibility. Read it with your husband, and build the marriage both of you need.
In most cases, especially in relationships, you will only get 80% of what you NEED and you will hardly get the other 20% that you WANT in your relationship. There is always another person (man or women) that you will meet and that will offer you the other 20% which is lacking in your relationship that you WANT
And believe me, 20% looks really good when you are not getting it at all in your current relationship.
I wanted to comment on the 80/20% post and say that if your relationship is missing 20%, that is a problem to be solved, not a condition to be accepted. If your marriage is not 100%, then you are doing something wrong in the program. A marriage that is lacking 20% is a marriage that is vulnerable to an affair if that spouse practices poor boundaries.
The moral of the story should be: don't settle for 80%! There is no reason to settle when you can have 100%.
When a man and woman get married, they think their feelings of love will last a lifetime. The vows and commitments they make depend on that assumption. But their passion for each other is usually short-lived.
Quotes from Dr Harley's book Love Busters.
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Some couples sustain it for just a few months or years after the wedding. For others, it's only days. And, when the passion goes, the commitments of marriage usually go with it.
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But I believe that couples don't have to accept the loss of love as inevitable.
Do you hear that lurkers!!! Dr Harley wants your marriage to have love & passion !!!! When there is love & passion, the commitments of marriage are joyful.
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Instead, they can restore the love they once had for each other. And once it's back, all thoughts of divorce or passionless love vanish.
Impossible, you may say. And it may certainly seem that way. When you're in love, it seems impossible that you will ever lose that feeling; and when you are "out of love", it seems impossible to get it back.
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Most couples I counsel don't believe they will ever feel that love for each other again.
And, I'd like to add .... during and/or after adultery ... we often hear the unfaithful spouse say; "Too much has happened"..... Pshawwwwwwwwwwwww
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But my methods for restoring passion do not require faith - they require action!
�Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins and loses one. Doesn�t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, �Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.� In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.�
Her thread begins January 2012 .... Her marriage in ruins. On September 13, 2012 she writes .......
Originally Posted by 15years
Sorry it has been awhile since I posted. Both Mr. XVY and I have been on here reading but it has been a very busy week.
Some amazing stuff has been going on this week. I don't even know where to begin. But unlike my normal lingering and talking too much self, I will keep it short and sweet.
Let me just say that Mr. XVY is giving us a shot, for real this time. He said that he would forever regret not giving his all to us one more time.
So up until 9/11/12 he has been holding back out of fear...justified fear...but fear. I think we both realized that O and H and POJA are absolutely necessary in our marriage for it to survive and we both feel really good about this.
Seeing Mr. XVY since he decided to, in his own words "move foward" is like night and day. He seems happy, loving, truly passionate. I know that we still have a LONG way to go and the roller coaster is still their but I think it clicked for both of us.
We need to move forward, clean slate, and use MB everyday in our marriage. We have been focusing on "true" UA time and just in the past couple of days have spent A LOT of quality time together.
Yesterday was the first day of our "New Beginning" which is ironic because it is exactly 10 months to the date of D-day.
He still says that he will probably not post on here, it is just not his thing but he has been on this site A LOT and I have caught him reading on here a number of times from his phone. Last night we read on here together.
For the first time we are truly being honest with each other and not being scared to tell each other how we feel. It is so strange but both of us were holding back for so long afraid what the other person would think or afraid that it would disrupt our marriage. Not realizing that actually holding back was destroying our marriage.
I just feel like a giant weight has been lifted off of both of us and we finally are on a road to a true happy marriage.
Thank you everyone and MB!!!! You will forever be my guide no matter what happens.
I am making this sound like a farewell post but it is quite the opposite. I am just so elated right now that I don't know what to say.
I don't know if there's been an announcement about this anywhere on the forum or the radio show, but it looks like Dr. Harley's complete set of books are now available on Kindle! Amazon emailed me to let me know that HNHN for Kindle had been updated and that I'm entitled to download the update since we own HNHN for Kindle. I hope this also means Love Busters has been updated, because previously they only had the old edition.
I don't know if there's been an announcement about this anywhere on the forum or the radio show, but it looks like Dr. Harley's complete set of books are now available on Kindle! Amazon emailed me to let me know that HNHN for Kindle had been updated and that I'm entitled to download the update since we own HNHN for Kindle. I hope this also means Love Busters has been updated, because previously they only had the old edition.
SAA is not a book of "punishments" designed to make the unfaithful spouse miserable. SAA is a plan for both spouses to follow a new way of living, where both spouses have their needs met, they are in love, and the marriage is protected against another infidelity. Try it on for size.
Lurker, You really haven't got any plan here, do you? You're thinking about 3 hours ahead. Well, maybe 3 days ahead, max, on your best days (which are fewer & further between). You've given up trying to do right.
You haven't thought ahead to when you get found out. You think it's still a matter of "if."
If this other chick is so great, why don't you man up & tell your wife? Why not spread the happiness by sharing your good news?
'Cuz you know, deep down, that this other woman has more issues than the New York Times in a month of Sundays, more problems than anyone you'd ever wanna spend the rest of your life with. Hell, if that weren't the case, you know she wouldn't be hanging out in hotel rooms with someone else's husband. You gotta laugh a little when you consider that you're not proof of her exquisite taste -- you're proof of how F'd up she really is. Laugh, 'cuz it's easier than dwelling on the fact that it's true...
But it's still a rush to get the easy compliments, the cheap attention, the easy piece. So you stay in it, to see where it might lead, on the off-chance that there just might not be a hard landing. Hey, maybe you used to believe in the Tooth Fairy, too...
Ever think about where your life will be in, say, 5 years? Will it be where you want it to be? Will you be able to say you're proud of what you've done & where you've gone between now & then? What if you & other chick move in... ever think about having to tell others how you became an item? Or have you stopped to think about how it'll feel knowing going-in that that's a story that you & she would have to lie about for as long as you're together? You feeling up for 20 or 30 more years of lies?
I know... you don't want to think about it, because you don't see any answers, except ones that you don't like. If you ever do think ahead, you're probably scared of what'll happen when it all blows up... it's like you've grabbed this tiger by the tail and you feel like you can't let go, so you figure might as well ride it to the bitter end & just see what happens.
Well... One of the problems with affairs is that you don't die when they end & your wife finds out. You'll wake up the next day (if you slept at all), and you'll find out that you're still alive, and that you'll have to start facing this stuff that you don't want to read about here, much less think about. And you'll be lying there awake, and trying to figure out how to even live with yourself. That day's coming. It's rushing at you, pal.
Might as well start facing it now. The sooner you do, the sooner you might be able to resurrect your dignity ... your integrity ... your marriage to the girl who once thought you were worth taking a ring from. You'd better level with her. The sooner you do, the sooner you might be able to look in a mirror & see again someone who's worth more than cold spit.
It's the rest of your life. Yours to save, or to throw away on this messed-up chick.
How will you feel 5 years down the road when poor boundaries and choices destroyed everything you once loved and cherished?
You got married and possibly had children for a reason, didn't you?
Stop only reviewing and magnifying the negative things about your spouse and re-discover why you felt so passionate about each other enough to share your vows together.
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/eyes/14.gif)
![[Linked Image from smileydatabase.com]](http://smileydatabase.com/s/916.gif)
to do the right thing.
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![[Linked Image from thesituationist.files.wordpress.com]](http://thesituationist.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/no-excuses.jpg)
that your conscience bothers you when you say:
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) 
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance 
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