It's been 2 yrs since d-day. I thought things were going ok, I know we have problems but I didn't know it was getting this bad. After a nice 4th of July BBQ my husband tells me he thinks he's done and he just can't seem to get past what happend. He says he still loves me and he still loves our son (OC) but he just can't seem to move past that our child was born from the A.

He works long hours, barely ever home so how does he expect to work on us. We went to a MC for 5 sessions and then quit. How is that trying? I don't want to throw away 6 yrs of M without trying everything to save it.

My family seems to thinkg there is another woman. I'm not sure what to think about that. I mean if he was going to why after 2 yr? Why after having a child together? Yes this did seem to come outta the blue. He seems to have shut me out completely now. He's been sleeping on the couch since the 4th but he did come back to the bed last night. He didn't take the leave (time off) that he planned and put in for because we were going to go to FL but decided not to. H is in the military. His command don't have a class on deck so he just goes in for PT (physical training) then supposed to come home but goes in at 6am and don't come home until 1pm. I asked him to take the leave so we can deal with everything but he don't seem to want to and says that they already canceled his leave but all he has to do is ask for it back.

H has gotten more and more angry over the years and has become violent at work not at home. I've asked him to go get help but he just don't seem like he wants to get it. He says he don't think talking to someone will help but how will he know if he doesn't try. I'm trying to convince him that he needs the help not just for the M but for his career.

I'm not sure what else to do but I don't want a D, I love my H very much but what can I do? Any advice?

marinemom,

Your entire post is filled with me me me me me.

I do not see one bit of empathy for the unthinkable torment you dumped on top of your Betrayed Husband. You went out and got pregnant by another man, and clearly felt entitled to have your husband stay in the marriage with you and raise this child (and yes, your post is filled with entitlement.)

Entitlement is the hallmark of a wayward.

Do you think your lack of empathy has anything to do with why your husband is giving up?

Am I reading your signature right that this OC was born to you in 04? Did the affair go on all the time until 08 when the DNA test was done? At the very least you kept the secret tht this OC was another man's for 4 years? You allowed him to love another man's child thinking it was his own?

The A ended in in 05 and the OC was born in 05. I came clean in 08.

The BS always has the option to walk - they may not be able to recover. That's just a fact - not everyone can forgive and rebuild.

That said, you were here back when the A was brought to light. You know MB, I'm assuming. The path to recovering a marriage from an A is a very straight, and narrow one. It requires strict adherence to a PLAN.

How well did you do at sticking to that plan?

No Contact?
Extraordinary Precautions?
Complete transparency and Openness and Honesty?
Rebuilding implementing the MB Concepts, including:
Meeting ENs
Avoiding Love Busters
15+ hours of UA time
Radical Honesty

From your post it seems you didn't do very well in at least the UA time.


From what I've seen - after an affair complacency has no place in a marriage (actually, it has no place in a non-affair marriage too). If you saw problems they should have been addressed. Just going 'ok' isn't going to be good enough, not for recovery.

Oh, I was off on the year the child was born....ok, 3 years is a long time. I am not sure how your BH has managed to stay with you this long.

I am of no help here. Sorry.

It may very well be that he originally wanted things to work out. But the constant reminder that the child is not his that he thought was his after 3 years just has gotten to be too much. There's no way I would raise another man's child.

I don't see anything in your post what you have done to make your husband feel like you won't do this again.

MM
I feel sorry for your family. And I feel sorry for you that you seem to want this union, and you own actions have negated that.

Here is me 0.02 (worth every penny)
You spent your entire post telling us what is wrong with your H. You have quite a list there.

Yup.

The thought behind MB system is to first work on yourself.
Work on your actions and communications with your H.

It is very, very easy to place blame on someone else. I lived this life for 4 years. Guess what? They do not have to accept your blame.

You have to start on yourself, and hope for the best.

I am glad you came here, many waywards do not have the guts. Hang in there.

Actually two years was a very angry time for me as well. A BS spend months trying to save the M and then, after a time (like 2 years), they feel confident in the M and that the A is over so only then can they start to deal with the feelings they supressed for so long. I don't know much of yor story but i doesn't surprise me that two years has brought anger to the surface.

If you follow the MB plan, Plan A is a humiliating experience but you do it because there is no better choice. You aren't allowed to be angry so yu swallow it. Once you are no longer afraid WS will leave, then your personal demons come to play.

Again, I don't know your sitch but anger after two years doesn't surprise me.

I feel sorry for this child, he has been living thinking that your husband was his father, now he'll be gone and wont even understand or comprehend what happened to his "daddy?"

I do not blame your husband for wanting to leave, that would be the biggest shock anyone can endure.

So I do not feel sorry for you, considering this was your mistake, so I feel sorry for the child and the husband. Because if you look at it, HE is the one that lost a family.

I don't have a single memory from 2 years old.

I have memories from when I was two and younger, but that is not the point.

MM, let me ask you has your H been deployed? If so how many times and when. I am thinking that there may be other issues involved with this and it sure would not hurt to check them out. If he has been deployed since he found out the truth how was he when he came back?

Finally, I do recall speaking with you when you were here before. I don't know if this was mentioned, discussed or ignored, does your son have physical characteristics that make him appear markedly different from your H?

Your H may be hitting a rough patch. I think your instincts to go on leave are good, but I also think there are other things going on here. I notice you two have not had more children is this planned or was it planned. Again, how old is your little boy?

Must go, but will be back.

God Bless,

JL

JL, I think they did have a daughter together in 09.

mm, I don't think this is out of the blue. My reading of your posts since 2008 finds that your H always found the OC situation problematic.

Please tell me whether you ever got a proper DNA test done. You had your doubts about the validity of the home test you did, and throughout 2008 you said you were saving up to do a different kind. Did you ever do that?

OK i'm going to try to hit on everything but it might be all over the place so sorry.

No another DNA test wasn't done but that was due to H not wanting to waste the money and he didn't see the point and I can't force him to do something he don't want to.

Yes we did have another child in 09 but that was something he wanted.

Our son to me looks like my H well my H dad but H says he sees the OM.

I haven't had any contact with the OM and he actual tried to contact me on FB but as soon as I saw it I didn't even read it and showed my H. I have been completely honest with H. H has all my passwords can look at my emails, FB, phone everything anytime he wants. I haven't kept anything from him since. I stay at home with the kids only talk to my family and now go to the gym. We've talked about me going back to work now that our lil girl is a yr old and no longer breast feeding to help with bills and it will probably help with the fights about him not being home since I'll have other people to talk with and not just the kids.

With his job right now it is hard to get to spend time together, H is either at work and when he is home he wants to sleep. No the EN haven't been being met by either of us.

I'm in no way blaming my H for what happend, and I never said that. I know I'm to blame but I also know I can't be the only one that is trying to work and make changes and think things are going to get better. I've been trying for months to get H to go talk to someone to help deal with his anger. I'm not blaming him.

Both of us slide back into our same old habits and using LB and getting angery with eachother. I was upset that he wasn't home or when he was would sleep, yell at the kids for nothing, and never help around the house. H was upset that I wouldn't have sex with him enough.

I know I'm the one who screwed everything up to begin with that all this is my fault but I want to work and heal our marriage. I just want him to get the help he needs for his anger. I got a real wake up call when he said he wanted to leave and made me realize that I wasn't doing what I should of been doing to help him and that I was just being naive and thought he wouldn't leave.

I want to get away just me and H to try and rekindle everything and work on us but it's hard to get him to take the leave and go. H is a highly driven man and a huge workaholic so getting him to take time off is like pulling teeth with him.

This whole talk about getting divorced really woke me up and I just hope it isn't to late and H is willing to still try. H made a appointment to go talk to a person about everything and he says he's going to go all in and not hold back so I'm just hoping it helps. I'm starting to stop fighting with him about his work since he can't do anything about it and hopefully me getting a job will help also so I can make friends and not rely on just my H, I think that has been a big issue. Also I'm going to start meeting his needs regardless of mine and hopefully within time he'll start meeting mine.

I would get one done anyway, just to be for sure for sure you don't have to let husband know if you don't want to get his hopes up, ask your parents to help pay for it, they will understand.

Call it finger pointing, blaming, case building or whatever you want- I pulled out just a few of the statements that are going to block any real communication with your H.

The sooner you learn this, the better. Took me years.

You do not need to convince anyone here that you are good and your H is the "bad element" - we all are bother here because we want to help- not take sides.

With this formatt as a communication style who would want to have a conversation with you? Your H sounds like a negative, rude, angry, small dude...hey, don't blame ME for saying this..- I am just reading the facts from your stated case.

sorry the text box is acting up. Personal recover can not start until you abandon this mindset.
(p.s. the yellow comments are on the right track, imho)

The child is going to be 5 in December.

Ok I'm sorry barbiecat but I'm not blaming him at all and if you want to twist my words to suit your need to put down others than just stop commenting on my post because nothing you are saying is helpful what so ever.

YES I'VE SAID OVER AND OVER THAT WHAT I DID WAS WRONG. I GET ON HERE FOR ADVICE AND HELP NOT TO HAVE MY WORDS TWISTED AND BE TOLD THAT I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING RIGHT AND THAT I'M BASICALLY A PIECE OF CRAP.

DANG IT IM TRYING AND TRYING AND ASKING FOR ADVICE. I'M NOT LOOKING TO BE PUT DOWN. IF ALL YOUR GOING TO DO IS PICK AT WHAT IM SAYING THAN PLEASE STOP. YOUR NOT HELPING AT ALL.

How excatly do I get a DNA test done without letting my H know?? It's a cheek swab. I don't know any other way to get one done without him knowing.

Why would you sneak around to get a DNA test?

Speaking as a BH, getting over fact that my FWW chose to involve herself in a PA was difficult enough for me to accept, and even now, 5 years after D-Day, I still struggle at times, wondering if I made the right decision to recover.

If she had added to that burden an additional one of three years of choosing to deceive me about the paternity of a child that I thought was mine, frankly, I think I would have gone completely crazy.

You have placed an INCREDIBLE burden of pain on your H. I'm sorry, but I really didn't get the impression from your post that you recognize this much, if at all.

I'm not. That wasn't what I was trying to say. Man nothing I say comes out right... I was trying to figure out why they would say to get another DNA test done without telling H. I don't think you can.

I've wanted to get another DNA test done, a legit test done, not a threw the mail test. But they on site tests are alot of money and H don't see the point in getting another one done. I guess he dont want to see it come back and say out son isn't his or it's just about the money... im not sure why he don't want to do another one.

I'm sorry if everyone felt that I was trying to blame my H and that I didn't understand and accept that what I did was horrible because I do. I just didn't want to write an enitre page to try and explain everything. Plus I was on here before and went over all that and didn't feel the need to go over and over trying to make you people understand that I feel remorse. And yes I'm probably not expressing myself in words very well but I try to just ask what I'm dealing with at that moment not go into my whole situation every single time.

I don't think it's about blaming your H, but more about understanding and showing empathy for what your H is going through. I didn't sense that from your post.

MM,

You never answered my question about deployment. What is the situation with your H and deployment? Many men come back and have a hard time adjusting. Throw in your situation and this may be more than he can handle, particularly if he is dealing with issues from the deployment.

I know he won't want to address this, but I personally know a few young men, marines that have several deployments into combat zones and came back with PTSD. They actually had to be treated for it and it came close to braking up their families.

I look forward to your answer.

God Bless,

JL

Do not worry, I will not read nor post here again. If you only want to hear "you are right!" you will have a hard time finding that here, tho..

I was not talking about your intentions, but your way of processing and communicating. O.K.- in MB terms, communicating with your H with constant justification is a real LB-- if you mean to infer the criticism it or not.

How can I twist words when I did not alter your writings at all? I just pointed out key phrases and sentances that YOU wrote... sorry..

I did not say you were a "piece of crap", nor should you feel like one.

You are miles from where you need to be, in your thinking about personal recovery. You have to start there. I will let the other kind posters and readings here guide you through the rest.

Good luck to you.
PS MIM: I am talking not about "blame for the A", but a constant justfication/onice <sp? for the issues that are destroying the current relationship. I personly figured this out the hard way.

Hm. I thought barbiecat was the author of the first piece of good, constructive advice you received. She wrote on your first page:



Please don't call for the cavalry and then shoot them down for coming.

If it helps, my experience is: if I feel inordinately emotional about something, (especially anger, defensiveness, guilt), I stop and try to honestly figure out why. Am I mad to cover up my own failings? Do I have problems to address on my own instead of being so defensive toward others?

This is hard. It takes repeated humility and keeping your eyes on the prize. And on the right path to getting there. You've got that path with MB, I think, now it's up to you.

I don't think anyone likes to keep being put down over and over no matter they might have done. We got on here 2 yrs ago when this all came out but both my H and I quit coming here because yes there were people on here that would give good advice and did it with tack but then people get on here and basically make you feel like crap even though you already feel bad and all they really do is hurt. Then when I get on here and voice how I'm feeling or about what's happening GOD forbid because everythings all my fault and even though I trid and tried I can't do everything on my own and think there is going to be any real improvments. Yes I understand the automatic response is to jump to my H's defense but none of you really know everything that is going on and the more I try to explain the more everything slaps me down and says basically I don't have a right to be happy I should just have to suffer for the rest of my life because of my mistake and I should feel like crap. I don't know how many more times I can say that I already do hate what I did and wish like hell I could change what happend but I can't and I have to move on and not dwell on what I can't change but just make sure I never put myself in that situation again and work on my marriage. But nobody seems to care and it's all about how I hurt my H and for crying out loud, of course someone would get defensive if all they are getting is your wrong your wrong.

When my H got on here it's not like anyone helped him either it was all OH MY GOSH, OH MY GOSH, I can't believe that happend, I couldn't raise another man's child, I would leave, blah blah blah...... HOW IS THAT HELPING???

And yes I know someone is going to say im lashing out at other's and not accepting blame blah blah blah..... that about all I ever hear. It seems everyone expects me to lay down and I should let my H walk over me for the rest of my life and god forbid if I say that he is doing something wrong how dare I. He couldn't do anything wrong everything is all my fault even if I didn't do anything at that moment but because of what happend it's all going to be my fault for the rest of my life. REALLY???

ok, I will try one more time:

I don't doubt that your extreme defensiveness is what your BH hears, too.

We are trying to tell you that if you want to save your fatally damaged marriage, you will have to do a few things all by yourself:

1) Drop the anger, frustration and defensiveness. Replace it with kindness, humility and empathy instead.

2) Stop SAYING how sorry you are, and SHOW your BH through your ACTIONS that you truly are sorry for betraying him. What are those actions? They are kindness, humility and empathy.

And if you consider "humility" to be the same as "humiliation" - if you consider "being humble" to be the same as "crawling" or "eating sh*t" - then I suggest, in all seriousness, that you get good professional counseling to help you understand the difference between "humility" and "humiliation."

I suspect this is the root of the problem. You show no humility because you consider that to be punishment, crawling, eating crap, etc. etc. etc.

But without humility there can be no remorse.

Without remorse there can be no empathy.

Without empathy there is zero chance of recovering your marriage.

I hope you will think about this.

My wife's affair in 2008 produced our first, and so far only child. I am attempting recovery and trying to raise the OC as my own. So I believe I may have a unique perspective on your situation.

First I will attempt to answer you actual question.

"Why Now"?


There are three possible reasons.

1. A BS going through recovery will go through phases such as anger, hopelessness, hope, peace, acceptance, etc, etc. And a BS can bounce from one to the other randomly. This can last up to 5yrs and in a case like yours with an OC as a first child and a deception about paternity it could take LONGER! This may simply be one of the stages of recovery, and may pass in time.

Just work to be the best wife you can be and meet every emotional need you can.

2. He has simply come to the conclusion that after two years of trying to accept what has happened that he simply cant. Some BS's cant get over the betrayal, no matter how much they want too. This is even more possible in a case where adultery has produced an OC.

Just work to be the best wife you can be and meet every emotional need you can.

3. He has meet someone else and is at a minimum having a one sided Emotional Affair.

Snoop and find out.





Now, on too what others are saying.
They are not slamming you, they are saying you need to change the way you think about your affair for your own good. Weather you see it or not, your post's are full of justifications for your affair, and finger pointing as too why your recovery is not going as planned.

Your Husband can also pick up on this, and let me tell you, after a wile it gets old.

For example, if you have ever uttered the sentence
"I know what I did was wrong, but (Put any text you want here)" Then you really, really, just have absolutely no idea what you actually did, and how much damage you did.

You need to change your way of thinking so that sentence goes
"I know what I did was wrong, and there is no excuse for it"
And there should be no "Buts" following it, anywhere.

Does any of this make sense?

I really like what you wrote Gack

I read this entire thread twice. Please point out the specific posts, sentences or posters that can support the above statements. I did not see them.

You were rightfully questioned about your seeming lack of empathy for your husband and his emotional situation. You were asked a couple of respectful questions that you ignored.



You clearly are too defensive to handle the self introspection and personal accountability usually recommended by the members of this forum.

I would recommend you seek help directly from the Harleys.

Good luck to you and your husband.

Marinemom,

Nobody is telling you you have to suffer for the rest of your life and have no right to be happy. Nobody has even said anything like that.

It is clear that you are not listening to what people are telling you, because you are upset at them for things they never did say.

Unless you can learn to listen, you probably won't be able to get the help you are looking for.

MM,
I am NOT going to put you down, or attack you, or judge you in any way. Why? Because I recognize that the fact that I was at one time a BS does NOT imbue me with a holier-than-thou aura that brings with it omniscience and great wisdom. Would that everyone on this site took that disclaimer seriously.

Here is what I have to offer:

Your situation cries out for honesty from your husband. It may well be that that honesty will bring with it more pain than you can bear. I believe your husband recognizes that his pysche is unable, at least at this time, to accept the existance of the child in question under his (shared) care. I give him credit for manfully trying to endure such feelings for the time since he learned of the child's parentage.

What triggered his new (expressed) resentment is not specifically evident to me here in cyberland, but can probably be surmised. One of the constants in life is that children grow and develop. It is one thing to consider an OC as an infant, merely eating and sleeping, and be able to suppress the underlying resentment. (Who can't endure a baby, whatever its source?) Now the OC is walking, talking, reasoning, acting and behaving as a human, and the knowledge of that growth and development, with its ongoing reminders that the OC is not learning, growing, etc, as a continuation of your husband's genetic line, is probably too much for him to accept.

So, if he cannot bear to be with the OC, is there any feasible way to continue to be with you? No, because there is (my assumption) ZERO chance that you would decide to give up you child as a condition to retain your husband (I'm not suggesting it, just pointing out the imbalance you're asking him to accept.) Millions of years of human development have conditioned you to nurture almost any children, and him to reject raising those that are not his.

Sometimes our mistakes are irrepairable. It would have been grand if your husband had had the fortitude to believe that raising another man's child could be validating to your husband, in that at least his values and beliefs, if not his DNA, would go into that OC's future accomplishments. If he cannot accept that, if he cannot take that charitable view, then I see little hope for your future together.

JL,

He has deployed but just stayed on ship never saw any action and that was back on 06. When he came back there were no problems.

I was on the other hand was diganosed with ptsd due to my deployment (we were attacked) and due to the sudden death of my young niece right after my son was born. I was on meds but am no longer.

I don't think his deployment is an issue because he actually wants to be deployed over to the sandbox instead of on a ship again he don't feel his deployment was a real one.

It is so silly to let this situation continue without being certain of your son's paternity.

To be clear: I don't think that your recovery will be assured simply because a reliable test shows your son to be H's. I know as a BS that recovering from a spouse's betrayal is sometimes impossible even when no OC is involved.

Am I right in saying that you were separated at the time of the affair? If so, while married is still married and you should not have had an affair, separation is sometimes treated by spouses as being "free". I can see that you might not have seen things in 2004 as you see them now, having found MB.

From what I understand, you used contraception every time with OM, and that is why, when you discovered your pregnancy, you did not think that the child could be his. When you reunited with your H, you did not tell him either about the affair or that the child might not be his. Both decisions were wrong, and I know you acknowledge that now.

However, you have always doubted the veracity of the test, because it showed many markers that were similar to your H's markers. Additionally, your H and OM are of different racial backgrounds, and yet both you and your H believed this child to be H's, until the affair was made known. Your son must look similar to your H to some degree for that to have happened. Does your son look similar to your daughter? Given that race is a factor, does it not show?

(You don't have to give me details of the racial difference, just whether, in your opinion, it shows or not.)

It would be unjustifiable for your H to leave the daughter that he knows IS his, because he thinks that your son is not his, when in fact he might be. This is all for the want of a proper test, which you have not managed to do for 2 years.

It might be possible to get a covert cheek swab done by taking your H's toothbrush (and getting him another!) Change all the family's toothbrushes at the same time and say that they needed changing. Please do all you can to get that test done.

If the test comes back as before with no match to your H, then you must face the fact that he does not seem to be able to care for another man's child. And, as I said, if the test shows that your son is also H's, this does not solve the problem of your affair and marital recovery.

There are also strong indications that your H has had an affair since D Day. That too must be investigated - but the test is critical. GET THIS DONE!

thank you Gack1 & neverguessed and everyone else. I know I am very defensive and I do get mad when I view peoples harsh comments as attacking me. I have viewed many replies as saying I should suffer and take all H anger and shut up because I had the A and that's that. It comes across that way to me. Yes I think I do need help myself for many reasons but I guess I've tried to deal with H's feelings and issues and not my own. I guess to me I've been trying and H hasn't when that isn't the case otherwise he wouldn't be here. Yes I do think he needs more help but I realized when H said he was leaving that I was naive and I wasn't really doing much to help. All I did was complain about him never being home, his anger, and him not helping with the house. Why would he want to come home when all we did was fight. I do see that now I really need to change but I'm afraid that I woke up too late. I do fear that there is another woman and a EA behind why the sudden change. How do you go from hugging saying I love you in the morning and then that afternoon say I'm done. That's why I see is as sudden. I know there is more going on than just H can't deal with OC. I think it's a combination of everything, yes our son could be the root but not the cause. I don't know if anyone understands what I mean. I think the fights, my lack of understanding (or caring) for his work hours, me not meeting his PN adding to the fire and made everything worse. I want to believe that if everything else was good in our M, I was meeting all his needs, EN and PN, that he would have a easier time dealing with his feelings about OC. H says he loves OC and considers him his son and no matter what H is his dad. That is why I think H wanting to leave is more about the other issues than just the OC. I don't know if I've explained it well enough for you to understand what I mean. And I in no way meant for it to be taken that the OC being born isn't a problem for my H so please don't take it that way.

Sugarcane, thank you I understand what your saying and I'll have to look into whether it can be done that way so not to give false hope to my H. Thank you I'll call around about that tomorrow. I don't want people to think I am trying to lie to my H by doing this without is knowledge but just I need the other test for me to be certain.

when it comes to the racial difference i'm white, my H is spainish and the OM was black. Bothe children to me look alike at least when i compare baby pics. My son has more or my nose and my daughter has more of my husbands and that is a major factor as to why H says he don't see him in our son.

Does/did your husband know OM?

I have read your whole thread, and I very rarely answer a thread but yours just struck a nerve. You are former military and so you know that being in the military is much more than a job, it�s a lifestyle where norms of an 8-5 job just don�t apply. So with this understanding or perspective, one would wonder why you are complaining about his hours at work? I don�t think your anger/fear stems from his hours at work as much as it is from your desperation that his seeming reticence to spend time with you is a sign that things are not going according to your plan to get past what you have done. After all, if everything was going according to your plan, your husband would not only have accepted your (as in you singular because it isn�t his child, now is it?) child, but would not have any residual anger and would be invested in the relationship and manifest it as being willing to meet the needs that you say you have. You get angry with him because he is not acting or behaving in a manner that you want. My question to you would be why do you expect him to?
There are several men on these boards that have been willing to raise the product of their wife�s stupidity as their own. I guess you can look at this from two different poles of thought. One would be that the husband is a saint of a person that can accept this type of betrayal and move past it because they see something that is retrievable (I would say that this is a very very small percentage of the male population); the other pole would be people that for whom this would be incomprehensible, representing the majority of male opinion. I don�t think that you really have a grasp at how a man would feel about not only having his wife bear the first child of their marriage as a result of infidelity but compounding the betrayal by letting the poor sap believe the child was his. I would have had a legally binding DNA test performed and once the results came back I would have moved out, filed for divorce and informed just about everyone, to include the state child support agency, as to whose child it really was. And after everything was over, one day there would be a reckoning with the POS who was your AP.
So perhaps now you see how MOST men would react to having their wife give birth to their firstborn child with another man as the father. So tell me, how would most men react when they are trying to deal with this type of betrayal and then have to deal with the source of that betrayal whining and complaining about not playing along by her rules? The poster that you�re pissed at? Probably the best friend you have on this thread. In this post to you, I have not used disparaging language or a hostile tone of voice, I have attempted to portray how most men would feel given what you have done, and how incredulous one would be as to just how selfish and entitled you are.
Sorry, but I�m not going to wish you luck, if I could speak to your husband directly I would counsel him to leave you; why delay the inevitable? As an aside, I would counsel the same to Gack. Of course by this point, you understand that I reply to you not from a sense of helping you but from a sense of empathy for your poor husband � you can do with my post what you will.

marinemom

Get your BH to come here and post on his own.
Maybe you can make a phone call to the Harley's to give you a game plan.

A BH stays with the WW and OC only if his value of keeping his WW and family life is worth the cost, not just in dollars, of having to raise the OC.

yes gack H has met OM because he was a former co worker of mine.

Now I'm not trying to complain or in any way seem entitiled but I am trying to get another's view on some things that are going on that have me concered.
H recently password protected his phone
his passwords have all changed
texting all day long, says to his brother and co workers
on the computer all the time
never used to be on facebook now on all the time
phone never leaves his side takes it everywhere even when inside the home (says it's because he don't want the kids to get it)

Please I'm not trying to point fingers or make H seem like he's doing something wrong I just want to know if anyone else thinks that he's hiding something. H used to only have 1 password for everything but not anymore. I asked H today what his password was for his phone and he told me somebody's name (a former students of his or that's what he told me) I didn't check but it sorta shocked me. I'm not quite sure what to do. I just recently in a way woke up and realized that I wasn't doing what I needed to do in order to help heal my M but Im afraid it maybe to late and H found someone else (maybe not physically but emotionally). H says that if there was someone else he'd tell me but I just see alot of what he is doing to be what I did 5-6 yrs ago during my A. I'm not trying to say that he is and maybe i'm just being paronid, I just want other's take on it. If there is another woman than it's not like I can really be mad at him I guess.

H came on here 2 yrs ago when the A came out but he choose to stop. I can ask him but I can't force him to. I'm lucky that he is choosing to go talk to a therapist. Even though there are many things that I've wanted to try (like going away just the 2 of us, going to this marriage builders group thing here that the base holds, going to another MC, etc). It's just hard to do any of these things since H always working. it's 7 days a wk dawn to dusk, over night duty every 3-5 days. So when I say he works alot i mean alot. I just can't get H to do any of these things. We went to a MC 2 yrs ago when all this first came out but we both stopped going becuase we were able to talk on our own and didn't see the point anymore but I want to see if it might help again now since things have gotten real bad and now that i'm in a way out of a fog and able to see what I was doing this past yr has been more harmful than helpful. I'm just afraid I woke up to late. H has just cut me off completely, barely talks to me when he gets home just goes straight for the laptop and stays on until early morning after i've gone to bed. When H and I talk about everything he says he thinks he might be done NOT that he is done. I'm just confused. I trying to figure out where we are, if there is any hope at us working through this. H never gives me a straight answer, Im not sure if he really knows. He says he don't want to give me false hope but hope is all I have what else is there. Like i've said i'm not sure whether it is to little to late.

Also now there is this mountian biking thing. All the sudden H wants to go mountian biking. Says a co-worker has been asking him to go and he wants to try it. H went the other day to a c-workers house to look at buying his bike and today is out trying it. H texted me and said he had a blast and he's hooked on it. But we live on the east coast of NC, the terrain is mostly flat. H says he almost went off ridges. Am I just being parnoid???

Yes he is hiding something. That sounds exactly what a WS would do.

Elaborate.

Gack, americanjin is basically saying that my H should just leave and my M isn't worth trying to save. If I read his post correctly that is what I got from it. Those are the posts that I just don't listen to.

I asked H again about doing another DNA test and he finally agreed to do it even though he says he's already accepted that our son isn't his. So I've contacted DNA Diagnostic Center about getting on done with them. I'm also going to contact DNA service of america and talk to them but I'm not sure which company I should go with. I guess both companies are well known and it's not like the $99 mail in test like we did before.

Well, that's your option, I kinda get the feeling you only want to listen to people who agree with you.

You don't seem to fully understand that one of the most joyous occasions in any man's life is the birth of his first child, especially if it's a boy. And you just destroyed that time for him, everytime he looks at your son, he's got a constant reminder of what you did, never mind how you compounding the error by allowing him to think everything was fine for two years. No matter how much of a happy face he tries to put on it, or how hard you try to make it right between the both of you (and reading your thread I have to wonder just how you're trying all that hard), this is never going to go away. Perhaps it would be different in a long term marriage where the OC is after the other children, as has happened in some posters marriages here. But short term marriage, wife bears the child of another man, it's pretty much a no brainer for 98% of all men that you may talk to - get divorced and ensure you're not stuck paying for a child that isn't yours. THAT is is what you are up against, and that is why I think that even if you put a LOT of effort into repairing your relationship it wil ultimately prove to be futile.

Maybe it would be best for you to have a DNA retest, a good lab to use would be LabCorp. If it comes back that your husband is not the father of the child, it is not only him that has to make a decision but also you. I would imagine waiting for the other shoe to drop would be like conducting a marriage under the sword of Damocles.

If your husband is having an affair right now, then he is wrong. I could never understand the revenge affair thing, why bring yourself down to that level?

I am glad to hear that your H has agreed to a retest, mm. It is vital that this issue is cleared up for good. Get it done, and don't let the opportunity pass by!

marinemom

I'm not against you or any WW trying to save their marriage. But somethings for you to think about.

Dr Harley say's when spouses are young, no COM, short marriage, and an affair where the WW has an OC it's usually best for the BH to divorce and allow the OM and WW to marry and let them raise the OC. Best for the OC to be raised by both bio parents.

Your not middle aged, no COM (children of the marriage).

Why does your BH want to raise another mans child?

People ask about just compensation after an affair.

How can your first child ever be your husband's?

How can your first child be BH's son?

Who was the OC named after, BH, BH's dad, OM?

Then how can BH now have a son named after grandpa or himself?

What will you do if BH decides to stay and try to have kids with you, but you can't get pregnant?

Or you have two DD's but no DS.

Will you be willing to keep going until you giver your BH a DS?

Even if it means you'll have enough DD's to have your own softball team?

Do you think that your being faithful to your BH for the rest of your life will be enough?

The Road...the way I understand....the OC was born in 05.....and COM was born in 09.

TheRoad,

We do have a COM. And my son was named after my grandfather and H.

Where does Dr Harley write this?

TheRoad, you used to use a line about people needing to check their "reading comprehension skills". This couple had a daughter in 2009. This has been stated in this thread and is in her signature line.

If you are referring to the new DNA test; again, if you read, you will see why the home test result is in doubt.

He does not seem to want to do that now, but when mm first came to the board in 208, he seemed prepared to try. He himself posted here in 2008, and he decided when he first found out about the child that he would stay. He wasn't forced to stay then, and he isn't now. Only he knows why he chose to stay in 2008, but without COM to consider then, his main motivation must have been his feelings for his wife.

You can read his thread to find out his reasons and feelings then.

Are you suggesting that daughters mean nothing to a husband? Are you suggesting that the daughter he now has gives him no reason to stay? Are you saying that only a son makes a man feel like a father?

Some men have a strong desire for sons. Do you read Shakesphere? It has been long documented.

I think AJI and TR are pointing out the added humiliation and conflict that her H may be feeling. They are trying to let MM know what her husband, like many men may be feeling.

I do know that men AND women often have a strong desire for sons. Yes, I have read "Shakesphere" (Shakespeare), but I do not think one needs to read him to be aware of that!

TheRoad's post suggested that having only daughters would not make a man feel like a father. I think that would be news to the world's happy fathers of daughters only.

Is the "added humiliation" you are referring to the humiliation of his own child being a girl? If not, what do you mean by "added humiliation"?

Because a son will always carry the family name. I am not saying it means anything to me, but to quite a few people, it does.

This father was lied to for three years about his parentage of his child. Now, his namesake, - if this marriage lasts and they have no other or female only children - is not even genetically his.

Don't beat me up over this.

�The Road...the way I understand....the OC was born in 05.....and COM was born in 09.�

A girl not a boy is the way I�m understanding it.

�We do have a COM. And my son was named after my grandfather and H.

You mean the OC is named after them.

So if you have another child with BH how will his bio child be able to be named after him?

John I for the OC, John II for BH�s son?

�Where does Dr Harley write this?�

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5063b_qa.html

�TheRoad, you used to use a line about people needing to check their "reading comprehension skills". This couple had a daughter in 2009.�

You got me.

�If you are referring to the new DNA test; again, if you read, you will see why the home test result is in doubt.�

I�ll wait and see how this plays out.

�Are you suggesting that daughters mean nothing to a husband?�

Your reading comprehension is off as well. I did not suggest anything negative about DD�s. Everyman wants a son. If life only hands him DD�s then that�s it. However now that there has been an affair all bets are off. WW gave OM a son but what will she do to give BH a son?

BH�s have to face that there maybe a type of SF that WW would never do for BH but did for OM. Now that list can be lengthened with WW gave OM a son but not me.

�Some men have a strong desire for sons.�

Thank you Doc.

�TheRoad's post suggested that having only daughters would not make a man feel like a father. I think that would be news to the world's happy fathers of daughters only.

Is the "added humiliation" you are referring to the humiliation of his own child being a girl? If not, what do you mean by "added humiliation"?�

Again you should stop making suggestions about what you think I said because of your poor reading comprehension skills.

Never said that the BH will never feel that he measures up to being a man if he does not have his own son with WW.

BH will feel that his WW gave to the OM things that she should only of given to BH. Things that she can�t never take back, undo.

Marinemom please answer these questions instead of avoiding them.

Marinemom avoided the question of how many daughters will she give birth to give her BH his own son. Being most families only want two COM.

What are you going to do if you can only afford to raise two COM, how will you be able to give BH his own son?

Marinemom how you name BH�s bio son after BH now that you have named OC after BH?

Well said Doc

and before you add another obvious question, yes, I know many men either foster, adopt or otherwise raise children that are not their own DNA.

But MOST of these men know this AND make that choice beforehand.

This poster is best helped by learning the value of RH and POJA -

This is negative about DDs. This doesn't sound as if the "Ds" are very "DD" at all:


The post was addressed to docholiday, The Road. The "you are referring to" was referring to his/her post, not yours! Dear me, I don't think my reading comprehension skills are the ones in question here!

"The post was addressed to docholiday, The Road. The "you are referring to" was referring to his/her post, not yours! Dear me, I don't think my reading comprehension skills are the ones in question here!"

I can tell who said what. Unlike some that can't realize that when one finishes reading a thread and clicks on the last post is not necessarily replying to the last post, just where the next poster just clicked to say something.

Clever way for you to avoid all of my latest responses.

Marinemom, what's up with my questions? We don't have to agree but I want to know your latest thoughts.

My reading comprehension skills have completely deserted me now. I can't understand what on earth this is saying!

TheRoad, I asked you where Dr Harley had written this, and you linked

What to Do When you (or Your Spouse) Becomes Pregnant with a Lover's Child: Letter no.2

However, my reading comprehension skills find this in that advice column:

There are many important issues to consider in deciding your future together. If your daughter were your only child, and if your wife were still in love with her ex-lover, who happened to be single and wanted to marry her, I would lean toward encouraging you to divorce. But since she is the mother of your two children, no longer loves her ex-lover, and wants to save her marriage, I would encourage you to remain married and raise all three children together.

(The daughter in "if your daughter were your only child" refers to the OC.)

IF all those conditions were met, i.e. there were no children of the marriage AND the wife was still in love with the other man AND the other man was single and wanting to marry WW, Dr Harley would encourage the BH to divorce her.

However, since, in the case he is advising, WW IS the mother of the BH's children, AND she no longer loves her OM, AND she wants to save the marriage, he would advise that they stay together and raise all 3 children together.

That is the Harley advice that should be given to mm's BH should he choose to post again, because these are the exact conditions surrounding his marriage.

If, having tried to make the marriage work he finds he cannot do so, he has every right to leave. However, mm is here for MB advice, and that is given in the cited letter by Dr Harley.

Questions about how many children she is willing to give him to get a son are a distraction from marriage building.

He was deceived to have a second child (actualy his first) because his WW lied to him and hid the truth.

Would of this BH of had this second child if he had known the truth?

Witholdng the truth should be enough justification for the BH to walk away from this if he so desires.

What was done here is nothing more then a woman trapping a man into marriage by getting him to knock her up. She got pregnant the second time to get BH in the family nest.

When if the truth came out in time this BH should of stepped aside and let the OM take his rightful place as husband and dad of his family.

While this WW was getting screwed, she screwed over the OM's right and responsiblities to be a dad, and screwed over the BH by lying to him until she hoped enough time and another child to trap him from wanting to leave.

Marinemom how are you going to undo all these wrongs?

I wish Marinemom would answer for herself.

TR: Maybe she's not answering because your questions are rather offensive, and your assumptions aren't even based on the facts in her situation.

I'm pretty sure that her BH knew about the fact that their older son wasn't biologically his when they decided to have their daughter. The baby is just a little over a year old and her BH has known about the biology of the first child for 2 years.

I have to wonder why you worry so mucha bout OM's rights over and over again, TR? OM was the interloper in another man's marriage. Yes, marinemom was wrong to deceive her BH about the paternity of her child. That has been dealt with. Her BH knows the truth. They have a COM and that cannot be undone. The BH has been raising the OC. It is his child biology or not. He is the "daddy".

If the BH now wants a D, it is his choice. However, the truth is 2 years after dday is a tough time for nearly all betrayed spouses.

I just went through a complete and total meltdown last month. It is nearly 2 years since my last dday and nearly 1.5 years since we started visitation with the OC. The anger and fresh feelings of betrayal and devastation caught me completely off guard. I was ready to jump ship and really nobody would blame me for those feelings. However, like marinemom, my FWH is remorseful and doesn't want a D. He was bowled over by my feelings of wanting to D again.

So, lets help marinemom because she is here seeking help.

She did not "trap him from wanting to leave" by getting pregnant before revealing.

The BH did know the truth before the second child was conceived. Both WW and BH were posting here in 2008, just after D Day and the DNA test, before the conception of their daughter.

The BH appeared to commit to the marriage and bring up the boy as his own, then they had a daughter, and now this difficulty has arisen.

With the affair and the OC, the BH has justification for walking away now if he so desires. He has had that justification since 2008, and nobody here has told him (or her) otherwise.

Dr Harley would advise him to stay and bring up both children, since his wife is not in love, or in contact, with OM, and she wants to save the marriage. He isn't here, so we should help the BW strengthen her marriage so that her H will want to stay.

Wow, there are a lot of strong opinions in this thread, and several strong assumptions.

I may comment on a few of them in time.


MM, have you snooped?
You need to!
I fear you H may be having a RA/PA.

Are you being the best wife you can be? Are you trying to meet your H's Emotional needs? You should be.

Excellent question. Are you and your H following MB, mm?

"I have to wonder why you worry so mucha bout OM's rights "

Not rights it's his getting away with not handling his responsibilities.

Yes none of this can be undone. It seems that the WW never admits to this.

The best way to keep the interloper (OM) out of the M is to not go after him for CS. Making him pay for his responsibilities (and yes the WW was responsible too) means opening the door for visitation with the OC. I can tell you personally that ongoing C with the xOP is not healthy for a M. My life would be pretty happy if I could completely rid our lives of the xOW.

So this is your agenda,TheRoad: making OM handle his responsibilities and making the WW admit that what she did cannot be undone.

This board is about marriage building. Dr Harley has given his advice to couples in an OC situation. If they want to rebuild their marriage, then NC with the OP is imperative. If there are children of the marriage, and if the WW is not in love with OM, is not being pursued by him and is trying to rebuild her marriage, then his advice is for NC with OM and for the BH to bring up all the children. Recovery from any affair is cripplingly hard, and is worse when there is an OC reminder to deal with. The best that can be done is for there to be no relationship with OP at all, even financial.

The BH does not have to stay and work on the marriage, but leaving his children will hurt him and them, and is unnecessary when the WW is not interested in OM and wants to rebuild the marriage. If he thinks he can try, then Dr Harley will help him achieve that best outcome in poor circumstances.

Yet your agenda remains to pursue couples in an OC situation and berate them for letting OM evade his responsibilities.

You are not interested in helping the couple strengthen their marriage and overcome the infidelity, as this board is.

You should leave couples in this situation alone.

As usual, we have another thread that's going to implode over things/issues that haven't even been raised. Don't think the OP ever brought up child support, making someone pay, yada yada yada. The one and only issue is whether the OP can determine in her mind if she is willing to put in the work necessary - according to MB principles - and whether her husband is really going to be receptive to her overtures,all this extracurricular activity is just a threadjack.

I have stated my opinion that it doesn't seem like her husband is going to be able to get past this, that she could be Joan of Arc, Mother Teresa, and whatever other saint you can roll into one person and it really wouldn't matter. While I think her behavior has been reprehensible, and I don't think she and her husband ever really tried to recover her marriage, I think the "help" we should give her is two-fold - a refresher course in MB principles and enough information from varying viewpoints or perspectives to let her make her own choice whether she can get her husband to go along with recovery or just acknowledge that he's never going to get over this.

"The best way to keep the interloper (OM) out of the M is to not go after him for CS. Making him pay for his responsibilities (and yes the WW was responsible too) means opening the door for visitation with the OC. I can tell you personally that ongoing C with the xOP is not healthy for a M. My life would be pretty happy if I could completely rid our lives of the xOW."

True.

Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. The pieces will never go back together again the way they should of been.

I don't think anyone is denying this, but what is your point in bringing it up over and over again? People can only work with the situation at hand. No one can go back and undo what has been done. The only choice is to move forward from where you are right now. Everyone can do that.

If indeed it is true, the OM has legal rights to his child.

This is where RH needs to come out. Maybe with a phone coaching, here. EVERYONE has limits, there is no shame to that. I am hoping this family can make it.

Sounds like both parties need to do some soul searching, put everything on the table and decide if they can live in a happy M with all these points validated, accepted and known.

Actually, her H is on the birth certificate, so he is the one who has legal rights to this child. The OM has no rights whatsoever as it stands now. In my state (CA) he never would, since there is a 2-year statute of limitations on contesting paternity.

True
But a very few of us, want to try.

Wrong

Nope, wrong. I have no idea what your story is doc but this is absolutely incorrect and please we are WAY off topic here. The topic is getting MM's marriage healing and helping her BH through the two year angry period.

MM, can you set up a counseling session with the Harley's?

OK whoa, John is my grandfather's name and OC has H middle name not first. So if we have a son together andhe wants to name it after him than he can but I wanted my grandparents names which I got John and Helen. I always said I'd want 4 children total 2 boys and 2 girls. H said we were done since he got one of each (this was said after he found out everything). If later on, if we stay together, and H wants to try for another boy than I'm all for that but we'll need to make sure we are both ready for that and we both agree that waiting until the first is outta diapers before adding another is smarter. Which is what happend with the 2 we have. If we can only afford to raise 2 children than that is something we'll have to talk about when that comes up i guess. I was able to stay home with the kids for the past few yrs but I've decided I want to go back to work now that DS is starting school and DD is a yr old and doing good with being watched by other ppl now. Might even work part time and go back to school part time, but that will depend on whether we stay together or not since I'll need to work full time to support the kids and myself if we don't.

I didn't mean to avoid any questions but just miss some and had alot going on lately. Order the DNA test yesterday. Going to get it done today and then it'll be 3-7 days for the results. Went with DDC. Also I have my counseling appointment tomorrow and H has is next week.

If there is any question I missed sorry just let me know. Things have been alright lately. I'm still unsure on where we stand. H is distant but at times affectionate. When I ask if we are trying or still getting separated H tells me both. So I'm confused. I'm still trying to work on the M by doing all the things that I realized I wasn't doing before that added to H stress and caused most of the fights.

mm, could you try to be more specific about what you are doing? What do you think your H's main ENs are? Did he ever fill out a questionnaire when he was here in 2008? Has he filled out one since? Getting that done would ensure that you are not missing the main things you should be doing.

What do you now realise that you have been doing to add to his stress and cause the fights?

Do your realise that the name "John" was just a random choice by TheRoad, like saying "John Doe"? It's quite funny that this is your son's actual name!

Wow I missed alot. I guess that's what I get when I don't get on here for a day. OK lets see if I can catch up on everything.

H knew about the A and the DNA test was done BEFORE we decided to have DD. I did not trap him by getting pregnant so lets just close that.

We each have counseling sessions set up separately first so we can work on ourselves first. I can't force H to try MC again later but hopefully his private sessions help some and he is more open to trying MC again.

I am being the best wife I can be NOW. Yes I wasn't in the past and I realize that now. I am making changes that I need to so I can be a better wife (IE: getting a job, meeting his EN & PN without getting upset about him not meeting mine since that will take time and I know that.

Yes my H does seem very upset because he does want a son and for his first born to be a son (as I did) and he feels as though it was stolen from him. I cannot change that and I do regret that fact. Yes DS might not be his bio son but H has raised him from birth, it's H's morals, values, and teachings being instilled into DS. Yes I did keep the truth from H and didn't tell him that I wasn't sure about who was the father and I truly regret that I was scared but that's no excuse for what I did. H may not be the bio father but he is dad.

Now as for the talk about OM not taking responsibility. I left that completely up to H as to if he wanted to tell OM about DS. I don't keep up with OM's life but H has. Issues started coming back up ever since OM moved back here from NY. OM is now married and has a son. *Again this is all found out by H NOT me, I want everyone to understand that so nobody tries to say anything about me being in C with OM* It seems that ever since OM moved back here that H has been thinking about everything a lot more. We were doing better until then. I'm not saying that is the reason for everything it's just another added stress on top of everything else. And I have said that I can't change what happened so I'm not sure why that keeps being said that I haven't admitted that when I in fact have.

Now I have started to think about if H and I do D should I then inform OM about OC. I'm feel it isn't right to have H pay CS for OC even though H says he will. H says that now but what about later on down the road when he has a new girl or a new family and no longer wants anything to do with OC. I'm just unsure about that whole thing.

OK now about the snooping. NO I haven't snooped. H did tell me the password to his phone and I have looked at it. Awhile back H was talking to this female co-worker a lot on the phone and by text and I found out and of course got upset. H then started deleting all the messages from just that female since it bothered me thinking that would be better. So there isn't anything on his phone (text wise) but he has erased them before. I don't want to start snooping around if he isn't doing anything wrong. Besides it's hard to do any real snooping with 2 kids and it's not like I can follow him to see if he's seeing another girl because he work training marines so for most of the time he's in the woods training.

First, yes it is funny that is my son's name and I didn't realize he was saying that by random I thought I must have said him name somewhere.

Yes H did fill out the questionare back in 2008 when we first read HNHN and we did all that stuff then. I recently found all the papers we did. No he hasn't filled out another one since and I'll ask him do it again but I'm not sure that he will want to. As I have said before H have become very distant towards me. Yes H has agreed to go talk to someone but he only did that to in a way shut me up. Like I said before when I ask H about where we stand he doesn't seem to know but says we are both trying and separating. H is more relaxed now and says he isn't sure if it's because he's on a break with work or if it's because he's fianlly got it all out (told me it was over).

H #1 need was Sex. Always has been and that was something I wasn't doing like before. So everytime I didn't want to H would like it was something about him and would wonder why he can't get any and OM could (he just told me about this). I did lose intrest in sex because I didn't like my body since having the kids and I wanted to lose weight. But also I was upset because of H work hrs, him never being home and never helping around the house.

That is another reason why I decided to go back to work. See I don't have any friends here and that's my fault for not going out to meet ppl and only had my H. So I would get angry about him working alot. I just wanted him home because he was all I had and I stayed at home with the kids all day and wanted an adult to talk to so I became dependant on him. That was the one of the main things we fought about. Which linked to the lack of sex (another BIG thing we fought about). Money wasn't a big thing but I'd get upset at him because he'd always go into the negative (thank god for the line of credit so no overdraft fees).

It seems to me that alot of our problems would be solved by me going back to work and school.

I wanted to wait until or DD was a yr old and no longer breast feeding which is now. I again just fear that it's all come too late. That even though I've come up with a solution to our biggest fights (not to say that the A isn't a problem, we just didn't fight about it) it's all just come to late and H has already given up.

Your H was triggered by OM moving back. Can you talk to H about not keeping track of OM? I think he needs to stop obessesing about what OM is or isn't doing unless HE contacts one or both of you.

I've told H over and over to stop obessesing but he don't. H did at first alot and checked on OM all the time but then when he moved to NY, H eased up and only would check on OM occationally when he would think about the A. Then when H checked on OM and found out OM moved back here H is checking on him not as much as the begining but alot more than before.

I started thinking that H didn't want to move on and H wanted to hold onto all the anger and all the thoughts. H is also changing the events on what happend. Now I have forgotten alot about what happend(as in the small details) but H seems to have a daily video diary of the whole event. But now when H starts talking about the A and everything that happend back then I think he is remembering it like he wants to and not how it actually happend. It's just small things he'll say and when I try to tell his that isn't what happen H gets upset. It was 5 yrs ago and with me the days run all together and I can't remember each and every day but H swears he does and even what OM was wearing. Which could be true but when H changes something that I do remember or he assumes alot on what went on between the OM and I and I try to correct him and give him the truth it's like he wants to remember it the way he wants and isn't interested in the truth.

This is another reason why I wanted him to go talk to someone so maybe someone else can explain to him and show him that he is obessesing and it isn't healthy for him or the M.

Counseling with the Harley's would be your BEST bet. Most counselors are anti-marriage.

Yup, and they don't even realize it.

Yes it seems that way but we just aren't able to afford Dr H. I thought about talking to them but right now we are already living paycheck to paycheck (another reason why I need to go back to work) and tricare pays for our counseling but I don't think it'll pay for the Harley's unfortuntly. I wish I could but i'm stuck with what I can get. We are trying to talk to female counselors this time since we have only talked to males before and they did no help.

I understand about the money issue. I would love to counsel with the Harleys but we are in bad financial shape right now as well. Just remember that some C's can do more harm than good for a marriage. Why not get "Love Busters" and the work book that goes with it and work through that together?

I think we do have LB, I'll have to check but all my books are in the attic since the move. Also, I'm not sure about how I'd do about snooping on H to see if he is seeing another woman. Any ideas on what I could do? I feel I might need to find out so I know if that is something that is in the way of helping my M.

Does he use a computer at home? If so, put a keylogger on the computer. Do you have access to his cellphone records to see who he texting or calling?

He has his own laptop that I have access to during the day while he is at work so I thought about getting a keylogger and finding out who he is always chatting with on FB. But there are so many out there what is a good one? Also his cell phone is another thing. That thing never leaves him anymore and he's always texting and that is what bothers me so trying to get a cell phone spy thing that involves me having to have access to his phone is hard to do. Also I looked at placing placing a VAR and GPS in his car but will the VAR be activated by music?? I guess I want to be sure there isn't something going on so I know where we stand. If there is someone than I need to deal with it if we are going to have a chance at healing. I just don't feel right spying on him when he hasn't done anything to me to not trust him.

Plus I'm not sure how i'd go about getting these things without him knowing. We have a joint account and he has access to all my accounts, credit card everything.

mm, he has done quite a lot since D Day for you not to trust him. He has talked about having his own affair, and he has become very secretive with his phone. There have been enormous red flags over his behaviour for nearly two years.

This does not negate your affair dishonesty about your son, but a BS's affair is as much a threat to the marriage as the original affair, and it is just as wrong. You won't find out whether there has been an affair unless you snoop, and you DO have strong reasons for snooping.

Yes, a VAR will be activated by music, but that is not a problem. You will just have to listen to a lot of tedious other stuff until you hear him talking. He is unlikely to have the music up so loudly that you cannot hear what he is saying - because he will want the recipient to hear what he is saying!

I used a VAR on my H a few times, and had to listen to underground train noise, station announcements, daily conversations at work - all sorts, for a few hours. But I did hear him tell his OW that he wan't going to see her again, and put the phone down on her. That was worth listening through the other stuff!

Is his cell a work issued phone? Can you access the phone records? I highly recommend a VAR. I put one in my home when I was gone for a weekend and found out my H had an affair phone with the OW. I heard several hours of one sided conversations.

His cell is a personal phone and we have a family plan but I asked sprint about getting records (IE texts) and they said I couldn't even though I was the primary. I have access to all the calls but without knowing a phone number I have no clue what to look for. And now that he never leaves his phone I can't use a cell phone sim card reader.

What do I look for? There are so many VAR's out there I'm not sure what i'm looking for.

We started having SF again, I wasn't sure about whether I should be since he was saying he was leaving and i didn't know where we stood. Like I said before with no kissing thing the first time he wouldn't even kiss me duing and still doesnt at all during the day and barely during SF. It seems like he's just going thru the motions but not really there (if that makes any sence). I guess it just for the PN and not the EN. Do I just start out my meeting his PN's until he decides to let me back in to meet the EN?

Please I need help ASAP.... i found H is having a PA with OW (co-worker) who is also married. What do I do. I'm pissed, feel sick, can't sleep..... can i really be upset? I did it 5 yrs ago. I can't expose it at work it'll ruin his career plus he didn't do it to me. WHAT do i do???

You handle this just like any other A is handled. Just because you did it, does not justify your H having an A of his own. I learned this the hard way when my H had an A and then I had one several years later. There is NEVER any excuse for an A. You have every right to be upset.

You're going to have to expose it to everyone, and that includes his place of employment. He isn't going to be able to stay at this job anyway, if you hope to save your M, because there's no way to do that if he continues to work with the OW. You've been here for awhile. You know what you need to do.

Read this thread mm, and read the link it contains to exposure.

I'm sorry you have found this out.

When do you expect the test result?

You have been here long enough to know the drill.

EXPOSE.

He is military exposing to work would hurt him since he wants to stay in which would hurt my family. What do i do?

plus all i have is some texts messages between them very clearly talkin about the sex they had but is that enough do i need more before i confront him?

I should get the results for the test on thurs (tomorrow)

mm,

You must read and discuss a lot more here before you confront him. For the moment, do not give away that you know ANYTHING, and later on, when you do confront, do not tell him that you have seen his text messages.

It is critical that you NEVER reveal how you got your information. If and when you decide to give the marriage another chance, you will have to continue spying on him. You might not like the thought of that (I remember how you resisted spying just recently) but if you do not do it, your H will be able to pull a false recovery on you.

My H did that to me, because after I confronted him in 2003 and we decided to work on the marriage, I trusted him to end the affair. It never occurred to me that, after we had nearly split up, and after the happiness we appeared to be finding in (false) recovery, he would keep his affair going on the side. It was easy for him to do this because she lived in another country and he saw her when he travelled there.

I discovered the continuing affair in 2005, a full two years after the first D day, and getting over what he had done by deceiving me for two years nearly destroyed me. To make matters worse, on confrontation I told my H that I had seen him texting (though not that I had read the texts) and after that he simply left the company phone at work, instantly depriving me of any more knowledge. He then kept the PA going for another 16 months (3.5 years PA in total), and I felt that as I was unable to prove that he was still seeing OW, I could not wreck the children's home. This half-knowledge and his gaslighting drove me to a near nervous breakdown, and recovery, when we finally entered it, has been very difficult.

Most importantly, the EA that lingered after the PA ended was only stopped by my discovering these forums, listening to the advice that I read here (I was too nervous to post), and exposing to the OWH. I'd had his contact details for nearly two years by then. I found them easily on the internet.

It was only when I read here that I realised that I had been enabling the affair for 4 years by not contacting OWH. I did not expose before because I did not want to break up her family and I did not want to jeopardise my own marriage by invoking my H's anger with me. What I never grasped until I read here was that I was allowing OW to break up my marriage by protecting the affair with silence.

It isn't easy to expose in the military, or in any situation where a job is at stake, but it must be done if you are to give your marriage a chance. Without exposure it stands no chance. You can choose to protect your H's career, but you can kiss your marriage goodbye while you do it.

Please read the "Exposure" thread that is linked on the "newly betrayed posters" thread. There are long discussions between posters about why exposure is necessary, how it works and what happens if you do not do it.

Additionally, you could take a look at a few threads in the Military Marriages forum here. Those posters have dealt with the same issues surrounding affairs between military personnel that you are facing.

Reading these forums is a quick way of getting your questions answered. Please do as we say and read!!!

Wait for this result before you have any talks with H.

If it turns out that he is not the bio father, and since he has probably been having this affair (or others) for the two years since you first came here, you might have to conclude that he is not committed to building a new marriage with you and his daughter.

Ok it's just o i act normal like i dont know anything. I just feel sick and dont think i can make myself sleep with him. It sounds like they are having unprotected sex by the way they were talking. That could explain why i've been having so many probles lately but i'm calling today to go see a obgyn. How much do i need, do i need pictures of them together. I'm so lost. Ok i'm gonna go read now.

No, mm. you do not need pictures. Most people never get pictures! The text messages are enough.

Do not have sex with him until you enter recovery, get HIM STD tested and you have a way of spying to know whether he is adhering to NC. Your health is at risk now. We have had posters pick up the HPV virus and develop cancer from their H's PA.

We are only talking about a couple of days of avoiding sex, and trying to not to arouse suspicion that you know about the affair. I imagine that you will be in a position to confront by the weekend - having read here and knowing what to do.

Once you confront, then you can openly refuse sex until he is STD tested. Even after that you must use condoms, because he could carry on the PA whilst lying about NC.

He's heading for a child with this woman, but let's hope that does not happen.

so i just wait.... i dont think i can it's making me physically sick. How do i go about exposing. I read where it talks about who to expose to but not how to go about doing it. Im not good at hiding my emotions and he's been asking about if im mad or is something wrong. I really need some advice. I can't keep acting like eveything is ok. he is home now and it's killing me. I printed out the texts but do i show him and be like WTF i dont know how to do this.

When he asks you what is wrong, you can respond with, "I am feeling sick." THAT is the TRUTH. You most definitely ARE.

Get the evidence you have and put it somewhere safe. Do you have a family member, or a friend that can hang onto it for you?

You need to get OW's info too for her family friends and H if she is married. Does she have facebook? You should copy all of her friends and keep it somewhere that your WH can't find it.

Now, after you compiled your list of exposure targets, including your WH's command, you will start calling, emailing and messaging. This needs to be done all at one time.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2266646#Post2266646


from Schoolbus

MelodyLane wrote this

and this is about exposure targets.

so do i expose first then confront him??

Expose first, otherwise WH and OW will have a chance to get "their" story straight. You do not want them getting together against you on this. You want this to be an ambush. This is your best weapon to end it.

Yes you will need to talk to his CO. I would make that my first stop since to end this they can NEVER have contact again.

Do not worry about his career at this point, he is not too worried about it or he would not be in this position. The reprimands he will suffer for this are a result of his actions, not your being honest. Think about it this way, it is not wrong to report a crime, it is wrong to do the crime. That is what an A is, a crime against the M.

After you speak with his CO, then tell OWH. Then move on to friends and family. But you need to try to accomplish this all in one day. Nuclear!

He will find out and be PISSED. This is a good sign, the angrier he is about the exposure, the more damage has been done to the A.

ok got it im starting now. thanks

((((mm))))

Good luck! Stay Strong.

Remember, whatever happens you are fighting for your marriage. You should never apologize for doing the right thing.

do i need to write a letter of can i just go talk to his co and show him the texts?

what about her co?? she is on a temporary duty, so do i go tell her co too? because once she is finished they work side by side again so I'm not sure.

Yep. Her CO would be on your list of exposure targets.

Writing to the COs would be so they can't sweep it under the rug.

You WILL get some mixed responses to your exposure though. Don't get discouraged, this is the RIGHT thing to do.

i don't have time to write a letter plus H is home all day today so i can leave to kids with him while i go do all this but he seems to know that something is wrong with me cause he has been hovering over me and trying to check what im doing on the computer all the time. but i'll try to see what i can do but is a letter nessasary cause i know the xo of the base (used to be my xo) but i think that would be taking it to far.

You could talk to the COs today AND send a letter so that it is more official. Your WH is worried because he has a feeling he may be caught. He can't come out and say, "Did you find out about my affair?" Wouldn't THAT be interesting?

You won't have to worry about confronting him either after the word starts getting back to him about the exposure.

I am sorry, I haven't read all of your thread but, does everyone know about YOUR affair? If not, you will need to expose yourself as well as your WH.

my family and his know, plus H told some of his co-workers but that's about it for mine. H didn't expose that's why i feel bad about doing this to him. but he didn't find out about mine until i told him 2 yrs after NC

You shouldn't feel bad. Had your WH come here, we would have advised him to do the same thing. It is the advise that is given to EVERY BS. Although you are also a FWW, you are a BW NOW. Our advise won't waiver.

Now, understand that you may get some people on his side telling you that you are getting what you deserve and that your affair in some way gives him justification for his affair. THEY ARE WRONG. There is NO justification for an affair. NEVER.

Just get through the list of people and say what is suggested. Remember, you are doing this to try to save your marriage.

If you want to throw him off for a bit while you get this done, google stomach flu and bring up the first relevant page. Then excuse yourself, but forget to drop the window.

That way, when he looks at the computer it will confirm you are not feeling well.

In the mean time, I would head out to a copy center and make copies of the text msgs to take with you. Make sure you have a copy for your self, one for his CO, her CO, and OWH at least.

I agree that you can send the letter later.

ok thank you. I guess i do fell like i deserve this and was the one who in a way forced H to tell his family because he just didn't want to tell anyonw his personal biz but I told him that nobody's option matters to me just his so they could all hate me and i don't care. OK I'm going to go talk to his CO now since he can stay here with the kids to make it easier for me to do all this. Thanks.

He did come here for a while, but I have been unable to find his thread.

Oh, Okay. Didn't know.

MM, I tolerated two A's, an OC and multiple false recoveries because I thought I deserved it due to my past A and my covering it up for 8 years. The truth is, you came clean and you have worked at being a better wife and mother. You do not "deserve" this and the best thing you can do for your marriage, your kids and yes even your WH is to expose. What your WH is doing is destroying another man's marriage. Is that ok because you "deserve" it?

I know I don't actually deserve H's affair I guess it's just my guilt of my own A.
I did confront him today. H claims that is is only the sex and there is no feelings, it was just about the sex. BUT he had sex with me that morning than that afternoon at work [censored] her twice. WTF!? I wanted to confront OW in person but H messed that up by calling her and I wasn't able to keep my cool and started screaming at her. OW claims that her husband knows but I think that is a load of [censored]. I am hesitant about telling OWH and H work. OWH is also military and apparently is here. They are supposly getting D. I tried to contact the H on facebook to have him call me but he asked OW about it instead. So I don't know.

H says he wants to work us out but I don't think I can move forward knowing they are still working together but the only way to have one removed would be to tell the comands which would end in a NJP and him not being able to reenlist. But how do I move on knowing that H can see her anytime at work??

Plus it was unprotected sex, H didn't think about bringing me anything so of course I need to be tested now especially since I've started having problems (down there) in the past month. AHHH so what if H gives me a STD that is supposed to cancel out me having OC.....

I tried to be calm but I ended up getting upset at some of the things he said. like he felt like he needed to get even and now that he did he's willing to move on.

H claims that he did alot of thinking last night and he was planning on stopping the A and wanted to work on our M but I don't believe that at all.

I expect that you know he's posting here now. I'm worried about his knowing all your strategies and pre-empting them.

I don't know, H claims he'll take a lie test every other wk if need be.

I want to confront the OW.... is that a good idea??? I;m afraid I might lose it but I want the OW to tell me to my face Y.

And, this would help recover your marriage ... how?

Your H USED HER BODY for sex.
He's made that plain and clear.
She has little to nothing to do with the state of your M.

I guess Im just pissed off and really want to knock the OW out. I wanted to confront her face to face and tell her to leave my husband alone or I would expose to the military (OW & H work).

If you want to "confront" someone, confront OW husband.
Tell him about the PA.
Tell him about unprotected sex.

There is a purpose to that confrontation.

You carry a weapon sometimes?
Not a great idea while you are this mad.

Please listen to pep and do not confront the OW. Tell the OWH. He is owed the truth even if they are getting a divorce.

I don't carry a weapon so thats ok but H does keep his gun with him (has consealed weapons permit). The OWH is also military and the only problem with exposing to him is the fact that he might tell the command and which i don't want done. However like I said I can't even begin to work on my M while they are still working together but can't change that unless I do tell the command

So MM, you didn't tell ANYONE today about your WH's affair? You only confronted WH? Now OW knows too? Bad move. Now they can just take it underground and hide it better. They can paint you as a jealous wife who is suspicious about everything.

You need to expose to your WH's and OW's COs ASAP.

No i told his family and mine and a friend. I tried to talk to OWH but have no way of contacting him i tried facebook i but he called her instead of me. No i haven't told his job but I'm still unsure about that because it will hurt him being miltary and it's not like he can just quit or request a transfer. And for the next yr they will be working together and I know I can't even think about trying to work on us with them working together but i'm still stuck.

I was military during my A, H didn't expose my A (now I also got transfered and no longer had any contact and I stopped the A myself it wasn't found out about). His was found out about and he isn't able to transfer but if I go to his job they will NJP him and that will hurt us (we won't be able to money wise deal with him getting in trouble). And definatly if we do stay together i'm just hurting my family so i'm torn.

also they could try to paint me as just a crazy wife but i have the proof of the A. I have them talking about them having sex that day. So it'll be hard to hide it then.

I was unhappy earlier today when you decided to confront him right away. My advice had been to read the site carefully first, and to read the Military Marriages forum to see how the military deals with affairs between personnel. You were so unsure about exposing at work that I did not think you would do this. I also did not want you to give away how you found out about the affair, because that source of information would be closed to you forever.

I felt strongly that you needed to read the site, calm down and approach exposure strategically. In some situations you only get one go at getting this right.

Instead of working out to whom and how you needed to expose, and writing the letters to his work, finding OWH's contact details and making sure you could reach him, you have ended up just where I warned you not to be. Your H knows your methods, he has warned OW who will try and keep her H and you apart, and you are backing out of exposing at work. You are preparing to let them work together at the expense of your marriage.

I have not read many WSs who drop the affair immediately on D Day. Most WSs that I have come across try to maintain contact, at least for a while.

How will you know whether there is contact now? If he shows you his phone, you know he will either have deleted all messages, or he will be using a different phone.

If you no longer worked together and the affair was long over by the time H found out, there was no need to expose him at work.

His circumstances are very different from yours in 2008.

This is not about being "fair" to him since he was "kind" to you; this is about stopping dead the affair and protecting your marriage. If they continue to have contact at work, the affair will continue and your marriage might well end. Your WH might still have his income after that, but the children will no longer have their father living with them and you will be financially poorer anyway.

I know I was trying to keep it in but I really couldn't. It' was all over my face and even my theripist said that. Like I said they can try to deniy but i have the proof and I didn't say how I got them just that I got them. But even if he does delete them sprint records them and i can go online and see that they have been talking.

I really tried to but with him being home and acting like nothing was wrong and then when i said we needed to talk he rolls his eyes and gets all pissy with me like him having to talk to me was just horrible. I have nobody here all my family is 8 hrs away and I couldn't just sit by and act like everything was fine.

I know i messed up somewhat but i am scared and confused. I love H very much and want so bad to make our M work and get back what we had. But like I said if we do stay and work it out exposing to his job would hurt us too.

I only say this because I went through a false recovery, and I wouldn't want anyone ever to experience that. I tried to give you a flavour of what mine was like, but really, I cannot capture my distress with words.

I don't believe your H's instant regret and desire to work on the marriage. I think that will come with time, especially if you calm down and handle things properly, but I simply don't believe that he is sincere today.

About the sprint records: he will read this thread and know all about this, now. You will never see OW on his sprint records again.

I'm not talking about the records that you already have; I'm talking about their future contact, which is a certainty. He will lie about NC and use another phone, one that you do not know about.

H says he is willing to take a regualar lie detector test

Ok maybe this is me being a b@#$h, but if I were standing in your shoes atm, the #1 thing WH could do to start making things right would be for him to go tell his CO about the A.

You are super worried about them working together, and if he wants to really fix this, he knows she will have to be out of the picture altogether.

Plus it will show that he is willing to take accountability.

I say this because I know that one of the biggest helps I have had from WH during our recovery was when he told his boss about the A. And in my case OW was not a co-worker. But it helped because he had someone that could effect his pockets that knew about it and that made me feel more secure in his sincerity to recover.

With all you have learned here, are you willing to take the word of a WS that he will do something in the future?

Will you have the money to pay for regular lie detector tests? They cost a few hundred dollars each time

Will you be able to force him to go regularly? What consequence will you impose when he throws a fit at being "treated like a criminal" and refuses to go?

You should get the DNA result today. Please tell us the outcome.

Ok well H did tell his company gysgt today. I told H that he should tell him so it may in fact lessen the blow if he stood up and admitted what he did. Then of course had the gysgt call me to verify that H did in fact talk to him. I know it was the gysgt because i have a call roster of all his co-workers (from before I told him I knew) and I have his old phone which also has the gysgt's number. So H did in fact tell gysgt everything and he asked me what I wanted to do and I told him that basically I don't want to ruin H career with a NJP but they couldn't continue working together. So he is working on trying to get H pulled from the company and transfer with the gysgt at the end of this class back to headquaters. Gysgt said that he'd be working with him and like 4 other guys and that's it there and H would have alot more time to spend with us to work on our problems. H would no longer be working the long hours and would be home alot more. So hopefully that all happends becuase I told him I couldn't wait another year until he would be up to tranfer outta his command and b billiet back into the fleet. I should in fact get the test results back by like 6pm today as long as everything went ok but now I also need to go get tested for any std's since H was having unprotected sex with the OW.

I want to make this work and I pray to god that the gysgt is able to get H outta there without having to declose what happend to the higher ups and get H in serious trouble. But the gysgt knows who the OW is also so he'll be able to keep an eye on them until he can get H transferred because they are so short staffed right no that he won't be able to move H until the class ends (28 days) so we'll see.

The fact that he confessed and is working to get reassigned is huge. Can you encourage him to continue posting here? What about signing up for counseling with the Harleys or doing the on-line course?

I know it is since he is risking getting into huge trouble. And right now he is working but I'll see if he'll continue to post here once he gets off. I'm very happy that he was willing to tell work and try to get transferred to prove he is willing to actually try to make our marriage work. Now i'm just worried that if i refuse to have sex with H he'll just start another A or continue to see the OW. What are the steps for this sorta thing?

In my case, since I knew I had already been exposed to what ever (luckily there was nothing) because WH was sleeping with both of us, I made him go get tested.

When that took too long for teh results to come back (I was impatient) I got myself tested.

In the meantime, I had some very frank discussion with WH about that fact that he risked not only my health but our son's as well.

At that point in time I could just see him catching something like HIV and passing it to me. Then me being a mom, would clean a cut on DS and pass it on to him unknowingly.

This was my biggest fear and that cause a couple of loud AOs because of that fear until after the results were back.

I sat down and explained the realities of chlamydia, gonorrhea, and herpes to WH. Including the fact the herpes can be transferred by skin to skin contact, no fluid necessary. And that the other two could cause me to become infertile without any symptoms. I think this scarred the H@ll out of him, because he had to sit down and think through the ramifications.

So after that I insisted that WH use condoms until I was ready.

Use condoms and INSIST he get tested, too.

i know i've been exposed because WH has been sleeping with both myself and OW. I'm going to try and get tested today so i'll cross my fingers. I can't wait until my GYN appt on the 2nd. I also told H that he had to be tested also. I'm just worried about if I wait to long until i was ready to have sex with him again that H will just go find it else where again.

If this is true, do you really want to be married to someone so selfish and unremorseful? That is what we call a DJ, mm. You are assuming he would just run off and have SF with someone else if you are not available.

Do you know the result yet, mm?

NO... I got a phone call from them today saying it would be tomorrow because the lab needed more time. Which they told me could happpen since i got the 23 markers instead of the normal 16.
Plus they do 2 separate test which is why we had to send muliple samples. So I can't complain to much since I wanted this second test done.

DJ??? I'm not sure what that is. But no I don't want to be with someone who is going to be that selfish but at the same time I know SF is H #1 need and I have not been doig my job so OW did. That is my fault for creating that hole in my M and I realized that a few wks ago but it was already to late since the PA had already begun.

We exposed to some friends today about both our A's and it came as a shock to them cause they didn't expect it since we seemed to communicate fine with eachother but not good enough. Which I told H today that if we were really going to make this work he had to talk to me and let me know what bothers him otherwise how can I know to make adjustments and vise versa but I have to learn how to stop just nagging at him and just explain what I mean. I have to stop assuming that H should know what is bothering me and know how to fix it. Yes we have been together for 10 years but we also have drifted apart these past yrs and aren't as close as we used to be. I want that friendship back, that trust and feeling of complete love and warmth that I got with him. The connection I felt by just being near him which would be all I needed from him to know he loved me too. We were so happy and I did mess it up with my A. I hate what I did to him but I can't change the past and now realize that I have to forgive myself first in order for H to forgive me too and vise versa. Now I still love my H and I honestly can't even begin to picture my life without him so I am ready to fight for him which is why I haven't been pissed and angry with him (even though I have a right to) but what he did today showed me that he is willing to lose his job in order to save us and that really meant alot to me. I love him so much and short of murder I'm pretty sure I'll be able to move past this as long as he is willing to also.

Dear MM;

Earlier I misspoke. I did not mean that your OM (if the true bio father) has current legal rights to his son, that will only happen if the H challenges parentage. Fact is bio parents do have, in many cases tremendous influence in their children�s lives. Many judges see a moral obligation for relationships with bio parents. At this point you are lucky, it is up to you to decide that, unles your WH challenges parentage.

Those of you who think bio dads who are were not married to the mother of a child have no rights, I wish you could speak directly to my SIL�s judge. Thousands of CS dollars and forced/welcomed visitations every week cannot be wrong.

On the other side, your son has a right to know the medical history of his bio father. Did you say the OM was African American? What about family history of sickle cell? cancers? diabetes? blood clots and heart health? Some of these diseases are overrepresented in the black community, this medical history could save your son�s life in the future.

I doubt deciet will.

H and I had already talked about telling son but once he's old enough to understand. And yes I agree that we do need the OM medical history but H needs to get it I refuse to make any contact with OM the only other option is having my sister get the info from OM. I just think that H is putting it off because he may be afraid that the OM will want to step in and be part of son's life and I serious doubt H is going to be ok with that at all.

There is no need for the child to have contact with the father to mitigate these factors. There is no need for mm to have this knowledge either.

A family history of Sickle Cell, for example, means nothing unless the child himself has the gene. The only way to know that is to test the child, using a simple blood test. The gene is not automatically passed from parent to child. There is a roughly one in four chance that IF the father has the gene without symptoms, the child has the gene. If he has the gene without symptoms (i.e. if he only has the trait and not the full-blown disease) then it will not affect his general health, ever. It might be something that doctors need to take into account if he ever has an operation, because of the factors affecting blood and oxygen.

It will be important to know whether he has the trait when he is at the point of having children. If both he and his wife have the trait, then the child could have the full-blown disease. If only one of them has it, then the child could never have the full-blown disease.

If the bio father has the full-blown disease, then the child has a 50% chance that he inherited the gene, but in this case, if the mother does not have the gene, then the child can never have the full-blown disease.

The son's Sickle Cell status can be found out with a simple blood test. Contact with the bio father is completely irrelevant.

The same basic principle is true for cancer, diabetes, blood clots and heart health. There is no need for the child - or the parents - to have contact with OM in order to protect their son's health. They need to control the environmental factors, such as diet and exercise, that increase the risk of those diseases - as we all need to.

If the boy is carrying the full copies of the genes for the full-blown illness - such as with Sickle Cell (or Huntington's; more common amongst Caucasians than Africans), then there is nothing that can be done currently to stop the illness developing, or to cure it.

In a purely medical sense, it does not help a child's health to know that its parent has a disease like Sickle Cell (or Huntington's), because the child needs to know whether he himself has the gene. If he has the gene that leads to the full-blown disease, nothing can be done to stop it developing. If he has only the trait, then the importance is felt at the point of the child having his own children with someone who also has the trait, or disease.

The child should know whether he has a trait, because he might want to take this into account when he chooses a wife with whom to have children. The only way to establish whether he has a trait is to test him; not to ask the bio father about HIS health.

mm; no you don't.

mm,

Neither I nor the previous poster is an expert about what needs to be known about OM's health.

I recommend that you ask your son's doctor about this issue. The question is not whether it would be helpful to know, but whether a doctor needs to know. If he or she says that he needs to know, then you risk threatening your marriage by telling OM that he is the father to get the data; I believe he knows nothing about this now.

How do doctors deal with the health of adopted children - not where full histories are known, but in other cases? How do they cope when the father turns out not to be the bio father, years down the line? How do they cope in those unfortunate cases where the mother does not know who the father is?

Doctors look after the health of people whose histories are not known all the time. How have they done this until now?

.........seriously.

http://www.genetichealth.com/resources_adoptees_and_genetic_information.shtml

MM: I hope your son is also your WH's. I would seriously research and talk to your son's doctor if that is not the case.

Be on the safe side, read. Good points, posters...
I know you will put your son first. Whatever is needed (or not needed).

Onset age and medical hisory have relavance, but do not listen to me, there are many, many articles about this.

Here is one. Good Luck to you.

Barbiecat, what do you mean by "seriously"?

From the article you linked:

"It is also important to know your true ethnic and racial heritage, because some ethnicities are more likely to be affected by certain conditions; for example, Ashkenazi Jews are at higher risk than the general population for breast and possibly colon cancer. Certain genetic disorders that can be screened for at birth, such as G6PD deficiency, are more common in other ethnic groups. Many such diseases can be detected early and result in fewer complications if the physician knows there is a family history, or is aware there may be a reason to do early screening."

If this child is biologically OM's, then the child's ethnic and racial heritage is known. When you tell the doctor about your child's parentage mm, he or she will know to screen for the Sickle Cells trait, and any other common African American diseases for which screening is available.

The article did not say that medical information must be sought where it is not known. It points out, also, that contacting biological parents for information is likely to result in ongoing contact. For some adopted children and parents, contact is fine, but it is not good in an affair/OC situation. You should realise the implication of informing OM of his parentage your son on your marriage mm, and take Dr Harley's advice of NC with OM for any reason, if you and your H are committed to recovering your marriage.

I think MM shouldn't count her chickens before they hatch. The latest DNA tests results are not even known yet. Did you ever get the results of that test MM?

The result is due today, pm.

I was responding to the post above mine today, which I think gave wrong information about the need to contact the bio father (should OM be the bio father).

I agree with the other posters that said there is no need to get medical information from the OM. I am praying that your child is your WH's but if he isn't there is NO reason to contact the OM. There are millions of people in the world that don't know who their parents are and don't have their medical back ground.

As an adopted adult, I managed to make it quite nicely without knowing any medical history about either side of my bio heritage. I didn't baffle doctors or anything. Millions of healthy adopted adults are walking around without the slightest knowledge of whether their bmom had breast cancer or their bdad had heart disease. I do know my bio heritage now (not really what I would have chosen), but it wasn't necessary.

I haven't recieved the results yet but I should by the end work hours today as long as they don't call me again and say the lab needs more time. I agree that with not needing the information the only reason it was brought up was because H did say that he did want to tell DS later on about it, that H is not bio father. That was H choice and I'll stand by what he wants to do but that will come later on when DS can really understand and right now at 4 it's just too young.

Thngs have been going real well today H truly seems like he is wanting to try this time. Not like 2 yrs ago when but honestly willing about trying otherwise H would of never told his job. I'm hoping for the best and giving it my all. I will not give up on my M without on hell of a fight. I'll keep you all informed on how things are going. Thanks for all the advice. Even though you guys didn't like how I handled it (confronting before exposure) I realized that would of done more harm that way. This way I made H stand up and admit what he had done and take responsiblity for his actions.

Your son should be told in an age-appropriate manner, when he is old enough to understand, about his parentage.

That does not imply that you should contact OM EVER, for any reason.

mm, Dr Harley answered an email from a forum member on the Friday 16 July radio show. It is about whether a couple should have contact with the father's OC. This is not your situation, but Dr Harley also talks about contact with OM when the OC belongs to the mother. Please try and listen to it: http://richwith.com/mb/MB_071610.mp3

I hope the link works. If not, please let me know and I will ask someone to post it properly.

The email is addressed about half way through the broadcast.

In his answer, Dr Harley is adamant that, for the sake of the marriage, there should be NC with OM. When the OC belongs to the mother, he says that NC with OM is sometimes not possible because he enforces his right to see the child. In that case, pick-ups and drop-offs must be done through an intermediary, so that the married couple and OM never speak to or see each other. Even so, it is very hard to build a successful recovery with OM in the picture.

In your case, OM (if he is the bio father; I really hope he isn't) does not know about the child and so must never be told. That is the best way of ensuring a successful marital recovery from your affair. Your H needs to understand this. His desire to tell your son the truth about his parentage does not mean that OM should ever be told.

**edit**

Well, results are in and I guess I have to accept it now. DS is in fact an OC. I was praying so hard that the first one was wrong. I really wanted to change the test to say he was but I couldn't do that plus it would be wrong but oh how I wanted to. Now I'm just waiting on the results to my STD test. Should be in by Monday I have an appointment on Thursday to go back in but if they are done hopefully I can just walk in and get them. H still needs to get tested also.

I let myself get my hopes up and it hurts all over again to learn DS isn't my H's. H says he is ok and has come to terms with it but I still don't want to. Is it to much to wish that both labs messed up.

It is, mm. I'm sorry that this is the result.

Since your H still wants his marriage with you, you must use Dr Harley's advice about NC with OM for the rest of your lives. Do not let OM know about this, from you or from anyone else, otherwise he might go to court for visitation.

Have you listened to the radio broadcast yet?

NG, please try to contain your venom, and do not selectively quote me or use fantasy scenarios about visitation with bio dads that are not rooted in reality.

mm's BH decided he wanted to raise this child in 2008, when he found out about the affair and they had the first DNA test. He posted here at that time, and his desire to stay in the marriage was very clear. They had no COM yet, so nobody can say that he had a gun to his head. He knew the high costs of raising a child, and he knew he could take OM to court for CS, and he chose not to, because he accepted Dr Harley's advice that it is essential to keep NC with OM if the couple desires to recover their marriage. Dr Harley advises that since a claim for CS is likely to result in visits, and thus contact with OM, the couple should not ask for CS or let OM know about the child.

mm's BH CHOSE to do take this advice in 2008, with no COM (yet) to influence his decision.

He has the right, of course, to change his mind and ask for CS. However, if he does so, he will no longer be using the MB programme to rebuild his marriage. The marriage stands very little chance of survival if this couple establishes contact with OM.

If this couple now asks for child support, why would OM's lawyers advise him to come to any agreement about the amount? This couple will have to put their claim before a judge, who will decide on the level of CS and the OM rights to visits. The OM is not going to agree to even a reduced level of CS out of honour; he will insist on a judicial ruling. Why would he volunteer to pay, and yet not to see the child?

You, NG, might have issue with "ladies whose infidelities produce OCs", but this board is Marriage Builders, and the only advice given here should be Dr Harley's, not your opinion. If you cannot give mm and her H advice on how to rebuild their marriage (since that is what they both want) with NC from OM, as Dr Harley stipulates, then you should stay off her thread.

I have listened to the radio broadcast and I have no plans to inform the OM at all. The only way I would is if H and I do D then I would consider telling OM because I wouldn't feel right letting H pay CS for a child that isn't bio his. We were talking about later telling OC about OM and then the choice would be his on whether he wanted contact with OM. H says the only thing that he could not deal with is if DS calls OM daddy. H says call him father whatever but not daddy.

A reminder to keep posts helpful and productive to this poster. Let's stay focused on Marriage Builders concepts.

Thank you!

Things have been going good lately between H and I. H is being more affectionate and helpful around the house. H calls and texts me on a regular basis while he is at work. H talked to a ssgt at work who told him about a MC that does more than just listen to them and actually makes them do stuff to help their M which is great.

The only thing that is bothering me is that I keep having these flashes in my head about H and OW together. I keep trying to figure out what she did that I wasn't doing. I mean if it was just the SF than when I started giving him SF than why didn't the A stop? Also why did he kiss her? H always said that kissing was emotional and meant feelings so then why? H said that neither of them was looking for anything more than SF and that they didn't start out kissing because they agreed that it meant more than what they wanted but then decided that since they knew it meant nothing and since they both enjoyed kissing that they started. HUH?
Apparently this isn't the first time OW cheated on OWH she has been "around" with alot of men. That is what H was attracted to a woman who speads her legs for any man who asks. I saw OW the other day when I was visiting H at work, I just wanted to ram her with my van, is that bad?

I need one of those memory wipe thingys from The Men in Black movies. I mean I love my H and what he did was wrong but I want to kill her and not him.

Now I just have all these "whys" that are bothering me. You know the why did this happen, why her, was she better, etc...

mm,

It will take time for your obsessive thinking about this to fade. The affair appears to be over but you have not begun the hard work of recovery yet, and Dr Harley says that recovery from an affair takes between 2 and 5 years. Your marriage now has two affairs to recover from, so you cannot expect to feel normal right away.

You must follow Dr Harley's very precise plan if you want to make sure the affairs never recur. Only after the affair issues are dealt with will you be able to work on your feelings for each other.

I'm stealing this post that MelodyLane made to somebody else here today:

I'm going to try and find HNHN book outta the attic...(all my books are up there from the move) and I also think we got LB too. A "monkey wrench" just got thrown into our recovery process....I can't be mad though because it's not his fault nor would either of us want this. H aunt was given 2 months left (breast cancer), got the news last night and we live in NC and both our families live down in FL. Now H is depressed since we choose not to go down to FL to visit during his last break like we planned due to money. I tried to comfort H last night but he didn't even want to be in the same room with me and then for the first night since D-day H went to bed without me. I know he is upset and I shouldn't take it personal but it hurt that he didn't want me around him. H hasn't had to deal with alot of death on his side of the family his family seems to be mostly healthy (still has his grandparents and just recently lost his great grandmother). I've lost alot of family members even a 10 month old niece, so I actually see his situation as good (knowing upfront so he can say his goodbyes) all my family died suddenly with no warning. I guess I see death different but I wanted to be there for him since I knew he was upset but he just pushed me away.

Then I found a chat room website on his cell phone (mbuzzy.com). I didn't know how to take that. I mean is he still talking to her but using this chat room? H swears that he never went there and that it must of happened while the phone was in his pocket but then there is also A LOT of porno sites also on his phone, again H says it was due to co-workers asking him if he could watch porn on his phone but there are like 3 different sites on there.

Now with H family problems it's hard for me to be upset about things I find because I know he is already going through enough with his aunt dying. Should I just put my issues aside and let H grieve? I'm not sure what to do, this is a difficult situation since H isn't able to get down to FL right now and might not be able to since the military only gives emergency leave for immediate family only.

mm,

Your H isn't depressed because of his aunt's problems. He is either in withdrawal from the affair (which would be a good thing), or, my own feeling is that he is still in touch with OW. My experience is that neither party wants to give up the affair on D Day, and they keep in touch, to see whether another meeting is possible or at least, whether the OP is missing them.

Once the horror that you might have thrown him out on D Day fades, he feels resentful towards you for stopping the affair, and hence you see a mood change. If he is not prevented from making contact with OW he WILL make contact (or she will with him), and your marriage will continue to suffer.

Oh come on, mm. Why would co-workers ask to view porn on somebody else's phone? Why would they ask him to take the rap for something they were doing worng, and why would he agree to that?

My phone has never gone to a chat room while it was in my pocket, either. He is not telling the truth and you surely know this.

Your marriage cannot recover until he ends his affair and is honest with you about these other activities. Do not let the guilt from your affair and OC stop you from being firm about this. You allowed H to get away bad behaviour precisely because of your guilt, since 2008.

We have asked him to discuss this on his thread. He does not show a great deal of interest in posting here, which is another red flag.

I know I know now I found another text form H to OW but it's blank....I think they are still in contact but just not saying anythig so I won't find it.

What was the date sent?

It was dated today. I asked him about it and he says that is was a draft message that he found and deleted it. Which actually could be true because it also shows messages he "sent" to me that he never sent but are in his draft folder.

Talked to his 1stSgt today. I was kinda pissed cause I just say that message before going over there. I told the 1stSgt that i couldn't even start to heal my M while he was still working there in that company and that H had to get transfered. I guess H had been saying that but once the 1stSgt heard it from me I guess it confirmed that H really needed to go. I guess until he heard it from me, according to H, 1stSgt told H to get back to him after his class and if there was still problems than he'd see about getting him out.

H has really seemed to changed alot. H has become more like he was before. H has been coming home right after work instead of staying and being alot more affectionate towards me. H is cooking dinner and cleaning up after the kids eat. All the little things that mean alot to me. H said he was sorry about last night (pushing me away) but he wanted to get the thought of his aunt dying outta his head. H is very close to his aunt so I know he was very upset when he got the news last night and I understand how he feels losing a loved one. H didn't handle it right on how he treated me but I can't really be that mad cause I'd be upset to and all he wanted to do was be alone and try to keep busy doing something else.

I really want to believe that H has NC with OW. H does really seem to be trying this time. H is acting more like the man I married and not the angry man he became. Only time will tell on whether he really has changed but as of right now it seems to be going pretty well. Execpt for these bumps in the road and the hurdle on getting him transfered but we'll see.

I'm a bit clueless on text messages because I never use my phone for them, so please explain. If H found a draft and deleted it, would it be dated today?

Where did you find it? In the "sent" or "deleted" folder? If you delete one of the ones to you, what date will it show? Would it be empty?

Do phones save drafts of empty messages? I should think they save drafts of unfinished messages.

Explain, please!

I'm not sure on how the whole thing works but...yes the phone will save empty draft messages (it does on mine too). I didnt find it on his phone but online. It was already deleted off his phone. But like I said before when I looked on his phone there were draft messages to me and other guys that weren't sent but shows online as being sent. So I'm not sure about all that.

UGH... the past 2 days have been crappy for me. Seriously I need one of thoes MIB memory erasers. The thoughts going on in my head are killing me and then they get 10 times worse when H has duty (24 hr post), which is every 3 days. Since the A happened AT work and DURING work hours. Everytime H is at work I just get all these thoughts into my head.

STD test came back (for me) NEGATIVE!!!!! THANK GOD!!!! That was just for all the serious ones anyway I have to wait for my pap on the 16th for all the other ones. H got tested too but his results should be in either Fri (tomorrow) or Mon.

It's real hard for me since H and OW still work together and will until next month, when HOPEFULLY, they transfer H out. I'm really trying but I just can help it when all these thoughts run around in my head. Plus it's not like I can just show up and go check up on what H is doing. I can just show up but I can't just go walk over and see where he is at and what he is doing.

I suggested having H's family take the kids for the month until son starts school (hopefully) but with the thing going on with H's aunt I don't think they are going to want the kids down there right now.

I am glad to hear that the blood tests came back NEGATIVE for you. I know that at least is a sigh of relief.

yeah it was a huge relief. I still have to get tested for all the other STD's but at least any of the serious ones I don't have.

Ok I'm not sure on what to do anymore...... the way things are looking H command isn't going to let him transfer. Plus they are trying to dig deeper into why we are requesting the tranfer. H company gysgt knows the whole story but we were going to try to keep the higher ups in the dark about the details and just sya that H needs the tranfer for family reasons. Now it isn't looking good and more and more ppl are trying to dig into why.

The problem I face is the marines means everything to H, that was all he ever wanted to do and he loves his job. I don't want to take that from him by revieling what happened. I feel that if it comes out and H gets in trouble, most definatly gets NJPed and not allowed to reenlist it'll end up hurting our M anyway. It looks like a lose lose situation. I CAN'T act like everythings ok and move on to heal our M while H continues to work with OW but if H tells command to get transferred, gets NJPed and we end up D anyway due to H resentment towards me for making him tell his command and ruining his career.

What do I do??? I love H very much and want to be with him but I don't want him to lose his career that he loves nor can I deal with him working with OW for another yr at least.

HELP!!!!!!!!

MM,
I don't know your whole story, but am kinda in a similar sitch with my WH. He assaulted me and was arrested for it which is putting his future firefighting career in jeopardy. HE made the decision to come to MY house that night...HE chose not to leave when I asked him to...HE chose to have an A and POSOW is now pregnant. HE chose to put his hands on me in anger. Now HE has to live with whatever consequences come from that. I was talking to my BIL last night and its like I told him, he had ample opportunity to change his path at many stages of this "game" and he didn't. It will break my heart if he has thrown away his future for this piece of trash, but the way I see it, he chose to give up everything for her. They deserve each other...and nothing more.
In my heart, I truly believed that if he loved me the way I need to be loved by my H, there is NOTHING that he wouldn't do to be with me...but the reality is he is not willing to give everything up for ME. Fog or no fog, everybody has to live with the consequences for their actions.
Hang in there, girl! We women ALWAYS survive!!

H isn't a bad guy, he really isn't..... He messed up.... I'm not perfect either by no means. I set this whole mess in motion 5 yrs ago when I had my A. H had his A outta revenge 2 yrs after I told him about mine. We aren't perfect but I love him with all my heart. Yes I know that HE choose to have the A with a co-worker, HE put himself in this situation (H didn't expect me to snoop and find out) his plan was to tell me yrs afterwards like I did. I didn't make him stick it into that OW and risk everything but I am the one who told him that while he works with her I won't be able to work on the M. So in a way because I can't "deal with it" I'm ruining his career. AHHHH!!!!! I'm wondering if I should just give H a D and let him keep his career. Either way it don't look good for the M.

I'm still fairly new, so I hope I'm not mis-speaking, but it is my understanding that MB principles say EP's to have NC with AP. NC means NC. Vets???
And, at the risk of sounding harsh, don't you deserve to come first in H's life? Evidently, your A was not a deal-breaker for him or you wouldn't still be together. Two wrong turns don't make a right, but if you did what you needed to do for you guys to get past your A, then you aren't asking anything from him that you weren't/aren't willing to do yourself. Just a thought...

No i understand what your saying. I'm just not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel here. Either way I see it ending in divorce. If he chooses M over his career H ends up resenting me, if he chooses career I end up resenting him. I don't see any up side. H command don't seems to want to let him go without a reason but if the reason is told H gets in trouble. No up side.

Well last night was a knock down drag out...at least on my end. I got so mad at least i was just hitting him with a pillow though. There has only been one other time when I got this mad to where I hit H.... and that was back when we were separated and he came over and took beer from the fridge and hinted towards drinking and driving. Which in turn pissed me off that H would do something so stupid to want to hurt himself. And that is what happend last night. H went upstairs and grabbed the gun and was gonna shoot himself in the shoulder to get outta the company. I got so mad. First off he was gonna shoot himself but also because our daughter was sleep upstairs in her room and son was downstairs playing wii. It threw me into a rage. I was throwing the pillows at him and swinging (all just pillows). I of course waited until the kids went to bed before I lost it.
Another thing that I thought about afterwards is if H did shoot himself while at home, who do you think ppl would think shot him.... I mean really we are having M problems, I'd be suspect #1

Now of course in H own twisted way he ws trying to show me that he chooses me but didn't want to lose his career also which I don't want him to either but I don't want him to hurt himself either. UGH... and tonight he has duty so H won't be home at all which is going to drive me insanse because we had this fighter last night and the OW spreads real easy so now I'm going to think that he is going to find comfort in her.

Ok it's been a few days since anyone has replied to my posts. Im just wondering if i'm just being ignored now or what's going on. Things seems to be going good until today when I asked H if he has had any contact with OW at all since d-day and he admitted that she had asked him about whether or not he was going to attend the marine corps ball in nov. I guess he claims that she was tasked with getting everyone's status on the ball and whether child care would be needed. I'm just little upset since H choose to not inform me on contact and that I had to ask. Then of course I'm just mad that he has still had contact with OW no matter what it was about. I'm sure that if any information needs to be passed even just work related it can be done by a third party and H doesn't need to engage in any form of contact with OW.

I'm I overreacting??? I'm under the impression that their has to be NC completely and I know it might be difficult due to them still working together but it's still possible.

Well, I haven't posted on your thread before, but I have been reading along.

NC is essential. R cannot begin until there is NC. However, since your H is still working with the OW, it is going to be impossible to establish NC. I'm sorry, but it just won't happen. You guys are going to keep having these issues as long as he is working with her.

Right now, both of you have decided to put his career in the military above your marriage. You don't want him to lose his career, he doesn't want to lose his career, so your marriage takes a back seat to the career. These are the priorities you have chosen to establish, and every time your H has contact with the OW because of work (and it will keep happening) you suffer the consequences of that decision to put his career above all else.

Really, until your H stops working with the OW and you guys both decide to make your marriage your top priority, this isn't going to get any better.

And I'm very concerned for the children who are caught in the middle of all this. Your H is threatening to harm himself and waving around a gun with a baby in the next room. What if the gun had gone off and the bullet went through the wall and killed the baby? You two are playing a very dangerous game here, and it is only a matter of time before someone gets hurt. I just hope it isn't one of your kids. What are you doing with a loaded gun in the house with children anyway? Military or not, that's just inexcusable. If you have to have weapons in the house, they should be locked up and the ammunition should be kept in a separate location. Obviously, such precautions aren't in place, or your H wouldn't have just been able to grab the gun and start threatening himself.

This story does not seem destined to end well.

What writer1 said.

Not all situations can be saved. As long as his career is more important than your marriage, his career is all either of you will have.

There is a limit to how much damage you can heap upon a marriage, but this one just keeps on getting hit again and again. Affairs on both sides, an OC, continued contact, guns drawn in the house - you and your children are better off with you and WH living apart.

Don't wait until somebody ends up in the hospital (and it could well be one of the kids.) Live apart for a while until things cool off and then think about the next step.

You have both gone way too far to continue together.

ok first off the gun is not loaded and it is kept in the safe. It's not like we have a loaded gun sitting around the house, im not that stupid. H went upstairs got the gun and loaded it while i was downstairs. I ran up as soon as i heard the gun cocked and demanded the gun or else i was calling the police. I was highly angry that he even attempted loading the gun and chambering a round while kids were in the house. This isn't like a typical nor acceptable thing to be happening in the house. So on that front I do agree but I want to point out that I do require the gun to be unloaded and in the safe while in the house and we even have a portable car safe while transferring the the ranges.

Now as far as the issue with putting his career first. I';m not putting his career first we are just trying to figure out a way to get H removed from his current company without ruining his career. H's job is our primary and main source of income so I can't just up and ruin all that. If i did we would lose the house and we couldn't pay our bills and the family would suffer due to the lack of income until H was able to find a new job. Besides we would lose our medical and dental insurance and the children need that also so I'm not going to take all that away from our children just to punish my WH. SO we are currently trying other options before resulting in straight out informing his command on his A with OW. Now of course H won't be able to transfer until after the 17th of Aug, when the current class ends. It's just hard for me to deal with it until then since we aren't 100% sure they will be transferring H after the class but if they dont I am going to recommend with H tells command to get transferred or separation. I will not be able to wait around for at least another year unti; he is transferred out. But as of right now I am holding onto the hope that they will be able to transfer H after the class.

I just get on here to vent and get advice when I'm having a bad day. But please I would never put my children's safty at risk and I'm sorry if it came across that we just have a loaded gun laying around the house.

mm,

I would agree with the advice to separate if you and the children are at risk of violence.

Your last post, explaining that the gun is kept in a safe, provides slight reassurance, but the fact remains that your WH went to the safe, loaded the gun and threatened to use it. If he did that once he could do that again, since the basic conditions of the marriage are the same. Loading the gun as a response to your unhappiness at his affair is an extraordinary thing for him to have done, and you should worry about his stability.

I don't think that H should simply give up his job and bring financial hardship to the family, if there might be an alternative job in the near future. Do I understand correctly that there is a chance that he will be transferred this month? If he is transferred, how far will he be from OW? Will a transfer remove the necessity for them to communicate about workplace issues?

But what about if this does not happen? It sounds as if that will be the last opportunity for a year. If he does not get this transfer you cannot wait a year in the hope that he get one later. You need to actively pursue other job options.

I have taken care of the gun issue by changing the code for the safe and not giving the new code to H and also I separtated the ammunition and the gun.

Yes there is a chance that H will get transferred. The transfer will place him under a differnt command and in a different area (on the same base). This transfer will remove the need for H to have any contact with OW concerning work issues since they would no longer be under the same command and no longer working together. They would still be located on the same base but would not need to see eachother or have any contact. So even though they would still be on the same base I would be more than happy with the transfer.

Also it's not that i'd be waitng another yr in hopes of a transfer it is that is time will be up at the current command in a yr so unless he is forced to extend. He is currently on a temporary duty assignment, it was for 3 yrs and H only have another yr left until he goes back to his normal job.

I have a question....

Would you rather save your marriage or your husband's job?

If I had to choose, it would be my marriage, I didn't care how dependent I was with my husband's job, knowing everyday he is in contact with that OW would trigger me and we would not be going forward. Even if he told me the affair is over, do not believe him, he still cares for her, and every day when he sees her his feeling will grow.

I would get a job and tell him to quit and to find somewhere else.

How is your marriage by the way? Is it on recovery? Sounds to me IT'S NOT! Do you want to know why? Because he is still in contact with the OW.

Sigh...this is such a mess, I'm sorry I wouldn't care how much my husband got paid, how great the insurance was, or how great of a job he did at work. I would tell him "QUITE or I'm leaving, you choose"

H can't just quit, the military don't work that way. It would be nice but unfortuantly it don't.

I do choose my M over his career but as I've said it's not as easy as H just up a quiting, that isn't an option. I still have another 2 yr until he is up for reenlistment. The military isn't like any other job you can't quit they got you until your time is up and you either reenlist of EAS out like I did.

The M is in a slow recovery due to his still working around OW. H swears that he doesn't talk to her and avoids her at all costs but yes I don't really believe him, I want to but I just can't.

The only reason I am somewhat putting up with H still working with her is honestly it isn't like we have a choice (like I said H can't just quit). And due to the hardship it would place our family in for H to get NJP and then end up losing rank which would lose money and we would still have to wait until H reenlistment time (in 2 yrs) before he would be able to get out. It just don't make any sense to do it that way. That is why we are trying to get H a transfer without getting him NJPed. It's just not as simple as you all think it is due to it not being just a normal job. The military (in a sense) owns H until 2012, then he'll have a choice on whether or not to reup or get out. The only other option is if the military kicks H out (which rarely happens) and won't over an A you have to do some serious stuff to be kicked out.

MM your husband is in the military, he KNOWS gun safety. The fact that he lost control and went right for the gun without thinking about his family disturbs me. The gun is taken care of but your husband could still find another weapon. Is he seeing anyone for his issues?

Good, the ammunition should never be stored in the same place as the gun. My DH is a NRA safety instructor so I have learned a lot from him. A gun should not be loaded until you are ready to use it. It should not be cocked and should be pointed in a safe direction with your finger off the trigger. There are so many safety rules your husband broke it scares me.

Your WH knows the MB principals and this is what he does? I suspect there is still contact with OW

This is not good, they will still be working in the same place.
MM, I am confused. What would happen if the higher ups found out about your husband's affair?

If the higher ups found out he could get in trouble, get NJPed lose rank all that crap. So we are trying to do the transfer without them finding out. His gysgt does know the whole story but that is it.

They might be working in the same place but wont be working together like now. They currently see eachother daily even though H claims that he don't speak to her and avoids being near her they still work together. So if we are able to do the transfer they will still be working on the same base but won't be working together and wont have to really even see eachother unless by chance.

H has been seeming to be coming home right after work and wanting to come home as soon as they let him out. Unlike before H used to stay regardless even after they told him he could go home because he didn't want to come home.

And? Wouldn't him loosing rank be be a small price to pay if it saves your marriage?

But they will still be working together and they could run into each other. As others have stated the marriage will not recover unless there is NC and no chance of contact.

All of your justifications are simply proving what everyone here has been telling you. You and your H are choosing to place his career above your marriage.

OK look what you people don't seem to understand is that just because his command finds out doesn't mean they will separate H and OW. The military will just NJP them both but don't mean they will transfer one someplace else. Since they are both on a temporary assignment. Where they are isn't their actual job it is a special duty assignment like the drill instructors and recruiters. So basically just because they get in trouble and lose rank and money doesn't guarantee they will move H or OW.

What we are trying to do now is trying to get H transferred to another area/command. They might have to see each other when in passing but will not need to speak or work together at all. Right now we are trying to do what is best all around for the family as a whole not just me. We aren't placing H career above the M it's just we need the income and like I've said it's not as simple as you all seem to think. H can't just quit and just because we tell his command doesn't mean they will move one of them but it will guarantee H will lose rank and money that we need for the family. I just started a part time job and now have to pay for daycare also for me to be able to work. We can't afford for H to lose rank.

Does the fact that they still work together bother me. HELL YEAH! But I need to put my families needs above my need for him to pay for the A. I know I can get past the A, I love H very much and I'm not perfect either, I've made my own mistakes. And maybe H needed the revenge A to help him move past mine and force him to let go of all his anger that he's held onto for the past 2 yrs. Is it an ideal situation, no, but I'm not going to throw out 6 yrs of M and the chance at getting back to how we used to be and how close we were just because things aren't ideal. I love H and can't picture my life without him in it.

Well all I can say is...

Your marriage wont recover until they stop working together, and have a REAL NC. Good luck hope all goes well.

I'm not sure why we're arguing here.

mm, you feel that the strategy that you are following is the best for your family. You have heard from people who disagree with the line you are taking, but you have made your choice. I don't think we are going to change your mind.

Other posters: Like you, I think that this incomplete job change is dangerous for mm's marriage, but this is the solution that she and her H have chosen. I don't see the point in arguing with her.

I wish you the best, mm. I was drawn to your story because I respected your H for treating your son as his own, and I wanted to see you and your children in a secure, happy family. I am a firm believer in Dr Harley's advice for a job change and complete NC, so I cannot endorse what you are doing, but I hope your marriage survives and thrives.

SC: I don't think anyone is arguing with her. It's just that she keeps coming back and asking why her marriage isn't making any progress toward recovery, and we keep pointing out that she hasn't done the things necessary to make recovery possible. She's asking the same questions over and over and expecting a different response, and I don't think she's going to get it. Certainly she's free to disregard the advice she is being given, but she's going to have to accept the consequences of her choices. Failure to enforce NC = Failure to Recover the marriage.

But I wish her well too, and I really do hope mm and her H can work this out.

Indeed!

She is arguing with us. She doesn't need to!

MM:
One last time I'm going to give you some advice from a male perspective.

Forget for a moment the arguments for or against taking actions which possibly could damage your husband's career. If we could magically grant your family the transfer you want, separating your husband from his xAP, IT WOULD NOT FIX YOUR SITUATION, The underlying problem would just submerge for an indeterminate time, and surface yet again in some other manifestation.

You have implicitly acknowledged that your husband's affair is an outgrowth of his pain from trying to deal with your OC. In the long view, your husband's affair was/is not the cause, but merely the effect of the true problem between you. The rage in your husband which revealed itself in the loaded gun incident is terrifying. I have tried to make this clear to you that, IMHO, UNTIL YOU AND HE ARRIVE AT A PLACE OF ACCOMODATION WITH THE RAISING OF THAT CHILD, your marriage will not be healed.

I will go no further in my advice, except to say that, consistentt with the MB principle of POJA, I pray that you and he formulate a joint plan of action about raising that OC.

I really am not trying to argue with anyone I just am trying to explain the situation and that it isn't as easy as you think it is that H can just up and quit because he can't.

Its just trying to come to a good plan on what we can do with H being military and since the NC isn't as easy right now with him also being on a temporary duty assignment. This is just a difficult situation and it does bother me that there isn't alot I can do right now to fix the NC situation. It bothers me that he sees OW more than he sees me due to him working 18+ hrs a day and having duty every 3-4 days (which she isn't there during overnight duties).

H has been getting home earlier, hasn't been volunteering to stay later so others can go home and he is instead the one asking to go home all the time. H has been more helpful around the house and with the kids. He has also been nicer to me. I don't know if i'm just expecting too much from him right now because he is doing all he can to avoid OW and have NC with her as much as he is able to. He has admitted to contact twice (once when she was asking everyone about their marine corps ball plans and second when he was asking out loud where his cover was and she answered). H finally got the appointment made for a MC (a real pro m one according to a friend that see the MC themselves). It took awhile to get the appointment made which bothered me but H has always been a procrastinator so it's nothing new.

Things have just gotten to me lately just the thought that even after this class H has to go the the rifle range where OW will also be going to since they are both currently attached to the same command and I don't think they are going to let H out of going either. That is why I am also hoping on the transfer so that they aren't under the same command anymore and they might see each other depending on where H gets transferred to on how often they would see each other but they would have to reason to speak to one another nor have to be anywhere near each other.

I understand everyone's take on NC being a must but what about when it's not able to happened right away then what? I still want to make my M work but can it still work if H is honestly not seeing OW anymore and if he truly wants to make the M work and avoids OW. If H truly has no feelings for OW and it was purely just about sex than can it actually work?

No. If for no other reason, it cannot work because you will be eaten alive every time you have to watch him go out the door for the day and know he's going to be around her.

There's no way you can recover your marriage when one of you is eaten up with pain and resentment and anxiety, which you wil be as long as he is anywhere near the OW.

Sorry. There's no way around this, much as I know you'd like to find one.

MM, I know that you want to save your marriage. People here are telling you that as long as your WH is seeing OW in ANY way that the affair continues and there is no way to properly recover your marriage.

Where are you coming up with these excuses that he can NOT get a leave, that he can not get away from her. If he is the one telling you, this is his way of gaslighting you and trying to keep contact with his OW. DrH writes about how the WS will try anything to stay in some sort of contact with their AP. There are times that the WS will say, "We are just friends." There are also times that the WS will say, "I don't have any feelings for the AP anymore." This is all so they can still have their fix. They still get something out of it.

So you have two choices, you can have a recovered marriage or your WH can have his career. seriously? Which is more important? There has to be something that can be done. Your marriage needs to be number one for both you and your WH. Is it?

I was in the military and I've spoken to both his gysgt and 1stsgt and they are trying to get H a transfer but right noe they wont not until the current class is over. I"m not just getting my information from H. Plus like I've said I have also been in the military so I know how everything works.

Are you really okay with the excuse that it was "just sex?" I know that sex is different for men than women, but there was a woman involved in this. There definitely were some feelings and from what DrH has said, they will continue as long as there is any contact between WS and AP.

I know that your sitch seems like it is stuck. There has to be something you could do. I am not a professional and I feel like, IMVHO that you should go to Plan B until he is transferred, although I see that you say that he will still have some contact with OW. I think you should really call the Harleys and see what advice they have for you.

IMVHO?

I'm not ok with the excuse that it was just sex, no. I know there had to be something there otherwise it wouldn't of happend more than once. I'm not stupid and if my H is the type of guy that can have sex without any feelings than I think that is worse overall since that means he is really able to got cheat each and every time we have any sort of problems. So I don't buy that excuse not really.

IMVHO=In My Very Humble Opinion

Are you going to call the professionals so they can give you the advice? I know that there have been previous examples of people reconciling after an affair, but continued contact occurred between the APs and the affair reignited only more intense. The WS would leave the BS for the AP. We don't want you to go through that. Also, when a recovery has begun and the affair continues, which is most likely what will happen in this case, it is called a false recovery and they do more damage to the marriage than the DDay from th affair itself. Around here, everyone tries to keep anyone from dealing with a false recovery. Too many and YOU won't want to continue the marriage.

I understand that all of you are only trying to help me and I do truly appreciate it. I in no way mean to seem like I am not listening to you all. I am just weighing all of my options. I want my M to work, very much so. However because of H situation and since H can't just up and quit his job and it's not up to him on whether he can tranfer or not we are really waiting on the higher ups to make a freaking decision on whether they will approve his transfer request or not. In the military you really dont get much of a choice on where you go. I know personally since I was in myself. So i understand that it's not H choice to stay there and that he has talked to who he should to get transferred and it's up in the air right now on whether that will happen. Plus like I was saying before even if H told all the details on why we were requesting the transfer (I've seen it happen before) it doesn't mean they will transfer him either but just bust him down and then in 2 yrs not allow him to reenlist which just hurt this family. He'll still be forced to work with OW until it's his time up to leave in a yr. That is why we are trying to do it this way.

It could work out though even with some sort of C right? I mean if there truly isn't any feelings at least on H part and he truly wants this M to work. It's possible.

Oh and we have a MC appointment finally set.

NO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

HOW MANY TIMES MUST WE SAY IT TO YOU.

NO CONTACT FOR LIFE! RELAPSE IS ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

/cough drop

If you want to go against what DrH has found to be the ONLY small path to recovery,then good luck. The NC rule is IMPORTANT. I see that you would rather have your WH have a career in the end then to ensure the best possibility of recovering your marriage. That is your choice to make.

DrH has stated that he has seen WH's leave their "recovered" marriages after 5 years of perceived happiness and move in with their OW. That is WITH DrH's help. Most likely due to continued contact, even "innocent." I am sorry. I am VERY strong minded about this because I "knew" that there was a relationship with my WH's OW 2 YEARS before I KNEW FOR SURE. I was gaslighted and had I DEMANDED that my WH quit his job and not contact OW anymore, he most likely wouldn't have continued and escalated his affair to the point where he has been living with OW for almost 8 months and I am a single mother to our 2 sons.

NO JOB IS WORTH YOUR MARRIAGE. Your WH can work at McDonalds as long as you guys are in a committed and recovered marriage. The choice is yours. I can only take so much of banging my head against the wall until I end up with a headache.

Read other people's threads. See that the advice is ALWAYS the same. read people's threads who HAVE recovered their marriages and understand that there HAS to be NO CONTACT FOR LIFE. IT IS A MUST.

In all the millions of posts here on MB, you will not find one where a marriage was recovered when the WS continued to be around the OP.

Not one.

Since you don't want to believe anyone here, please call the Harleys and let them help you.

So far, "Plan MarineMom" has only gotten you into the gigantic mess you're in now and you are only digging yourself in deeper.

Please call the Harleys before you find out how much worse things really can get.

It's real hard to have NC for life, in the marines anyway. The OM resently got restationed back here and I've ran into him at the store. Had no verbal contact whatsoever and just kept my head down and kept walking. I don't have the thought or feelings of wanting to go back to the OM at all so I don't really believe that it isn't possible because I know for me those feelings arent there anymore and seeing him didn't change that fact at all.

I guess that is why I beleive that it is possible for him too because for me I choose my H over the OM and even after seeing the OM after yrs didn't change anything for me because I still choice my H and don't want anything to do with OM.

Basically, you and your H are choosing his career in the marines over your marriage and hoping the marriage will still work out somehow. I don't know anyone else who has had success under these circumstances, and it certainly has nothing to do with MB, but there doesn't seem to be much else anyone can say. You've made up your mind, and I wish you all the luck in the world. I fear you're setting yourself up for certain failure, but only time will tell.

Well, my sister might be coming to live with us for awhile. She has finally decided to leave her POSWH. H has had many A every where they go. H constantly puts her down and tells her she is nothing and cheats on her all the time. The whole family has been trying to tell her that he isn't going to change and she needed to leave him but she always went back to him. Well it seems like she has finally had enough and might actually leave this time (she has said this many times but also said she still loved him). Well this time she says she feels nothing but anger when she thinks about him now and over the years with all the emotional abuse and PA she has finally cracked.

I have told her about this site and how it could do her good to talk other ppl that could give her advice on her PR. I told her about the HNHN book back in 08 when H and I read it and she went out and bought it and has been doing the MB on her end but BIL refused to even try.

I'm happy that she has finally saw that BIL is a POS and I pray she actually leaves the SOB this time.

She contacted BILOWH and OWH confronted his WW and got a confession and then OWH called my sister and let her know. I am afraid though that she is getting to close to OWH now. They spent all night on the phone until 7 am. She says that he is a real good guy and reminds her of our grandfather. I warned her not to get involved with him or even hang out until both were completely D. Otherwise the relationship will start out on a bad foundation. I'm just afraid that she is looking for comfort and that emotional connection and warned her that my own A started out as an EA. That she wouldn't either of them any good to start out that way.

But on the plus side if she does come live with H and I for awhile it'll be easier for H and I to go on date nights. Sis could stay with the kids and we would be able to go out and have the "us" time that we really need. H thinks it might actually be a good thing since she'll be able to watch the kids so I don't have to drag them out with me if I wanted to drop by while he was working. This could be a real good thing for our own R. Besides having someone home to talk to while H is at work or on duty and me being able to do surprise visits to H job without worrying about the kids

Besides it would help with the financial problems we have been having as of lately. Sis is going to work also so she would be able to help out on a few bills just like water and electric. Just the ones that would be affected by her living here. I would never charge my own family rent but I do expect them to help out and not freeload. We'll see how this works and if she even leaves this time. I truly hope so.

I know you want to help your sister, but right now I would ask her to stay with someone else, you and your husband is not at a good recovery to have another female in the home.

I'm sorry but I see All over this.

I am telling you right now...BAD IDEA!!!

oh no, H and sister wouldnt happen.

why would my sister coming would be a bad idea???

Uh, maybe because he is already proven to be unfaithful, and you are in a bad situation, you both are--

Do you not WANT to see how dangerous this is to your marriage?

And one other person living with you will be very hard. More problems will crop up with the sister there than will be solved by her being there to take care of the kids, etc.

That caring for the kids will get old quickly and then she will be catting around, living off you for free, etc.

It will go good for about 2 weeks, then war will erupt. Besides is your house large? Where will she sleep on the couch? In the garage?

well she is coming with my 2 nephews and she is already set up to work from home so she isn't going to be living soft free. But I've already told her she could stay with us how am i going just renig on the offer after it is made.

Our house is large enough and we have an extra room for her to stay in so she wont be on the couch.

Ya'll did it again you all got me wondering on whether or not it's a good idea to help my sis out. I've always jumped to help out my family without thinking it through all the way. h is the same way with his family. So everytime the fam has any kind of issues they always call us for help. Cuz even with all our problems we are still more stable than them... sounds bad but true.

UGH... i guess H and I need to sit down and really discuss this better before we decide on yes or no.

I just feel bad taking back the offer and even though she is my big sister I've always been there for her when she needed me.

Call her.

"After much thought, H and I decided we are unable to accommodate you in our home. If you need help locating another place to stay, let me know."

The thing is, you do not need to give her your reasons.
The REASON is, it will not work FOR YOUR FAMILY.

It is in the best interest of YOUR FAMILY that she stay elsewhere <--- that is enough explaination.

If she questions you.
Repeat.

"This is our decision. Do you want help finding a place to stay?"

Yes sorry, believe me, I had a sister and her husband live with us, and with all the tension from my husband and I because of my affair and trying to fix the marriage, it was HORRIBLE!

Even though my sister needed the help, her and her husband decided to get out of our house to be free from the tension.

I know you want to help, but you are not in a situation to help your sister when you yourself needs it. It's like the blind leading the blind, it doesn't work.

Just talk to her, she will understand, especially if her and her husband are in the same situation as you.

Scotland et al, unfortunately the military is not one of those jobs that you can quit and leave by giving two weeks notice. Berating her for what you see is their refusal to leave the job is not going to help because they really can't do anything about the situation other than perhaps volunteer for an overseas assignment - a possibility marinemom that you may want to look into - which again would require an approval. just up and leaving the military, especially in time of war, is known as desertion and the military kinda frowns upon that.

Marinemom, as I have stated in the past, and which was somewhat corroborated by one of the other male posters to your thread, the biggest issue you face (and what is driving all of your current difficulties) is if your husband is going to be able to get past the fact that you had a child with another guy and let him think it was his for two years. Everything else is secondary - the women posting here may disagree, but then again I don't think they really truly can understand how a guy would feel in this case. If you want to have any shred of a chance in recovering your marriage you and your husband are going to need some big help. Have you contacted Behavioral Health Services or the Family Life people on base to set up counseling? I think they would have a better idea of military life than a civilian counselor. If your husband cannot get past his sense of anger and betrayal (and as I've said, not many men could in these set of circumstances) with professional help, it's not going to really matter where he works, or where you live, etc, because the root cause cannot be resolved. If you feel that your husband CAN'T get past what has happened, then I would negotiate a divorce. If he says that he CAN get past it, then he needs to work with you to rebuild your family. The so called affair he had was to rub it in your face, there's no excuse that he saw it as ok to use another human being to exact revenge upon you - he doesn't exactly stack up well as far as moral position goes, now does he? But it does show the amount of anger that he has inside and the fact that whatever little that you did od to recover your marriage initially didn't work very well. So it's time for him to either crap or get off the pot.

Marriagebuilders is a GREAT program but it only works if both partners are truly interested in recovering the marriage. Otherwise it's a waste of time.

That is what I've been trying to say, thanks for explaining it more. Maybe since you also said it ppl will stop thinking that we are choosing H career over our M. Since that isn't the case.



I know we have our problems. H claims that he loves OC and will always see him as his son but at the same time says he feels like his first born son was stolen from him. I've stated if I had known that I was prego with OC and not HC I would of gotten an abortion (as horrible as some might see that I never wanted to have OM's C, I didn't want a C at 19 yr old either so if I had known I would of got one).
H says that he has let that anger go and that as messed up as it sounds that his A helped him let go.
No we didn't R right the first time we started out right but then just got lazy and stopped. I got fed up with H treating me like crap and using me like a doormat and H never got the help he needed to deal with the A he just pushed it down and let it fester and eat at him making him angrier and angrier.
Now we got to deal with both our A's. Of course I'm having a hard time because H works with OW and sees her daily. H claims to have nothing to do with her but their A was at work during work. I really want to believe him but I can't right now. I have no way to check on his stories, I don't have anyone to watch him and make sure he don't have C with OW and to make sure H is never alone with OW. All I have is what H tells me and how am I expected to believe that? When H found out about my A, OM wasn't around, lived in another state so it's not like H had to deal with the thoughts about me still having C or that I was still seeing OM but I do. Yes H has to deal with OC but so do I. I mean I honestly believed OC was HC. NO that don't make it better, it's still horrible what I did but I've forgiven myself for it. I wish I could change what happen but I can't and I wish that my son was H bio son so very much but I can't change that either. However I will not keep feeling like I should suffer for the rest of my life because of that mistake. I wouldn't change having my son for anything (I'd love to change his dna). I've accepted that life has to move forward and we can't dwell on the past. I know I can forgive H's A because I love him and want to be with him but until he has NC with OW I can't fully begin to start trusting him again. I know I can move forward because I want to be with H and want this M to be what I know it can be. No matter how crazy H drives me I still love him and can't picture my life without him in it. I want so bad to move forward but the daily C with OW is stopping me from being able to and that is what is killing me.

I�m willing to wait until the end of this class for H to transfer but if he isn't able to get one I'm not sure whether I'll be able to wait for a year. I really don't see me being able to. I really would love to be able to verify everything H tells me so I could begin to start trusting him again but that would involved getting a co-working involved and being able to believe that they aren't going to lie to me to help H.

Well giving Marinemom some "out" is not going to help her. I am not telling her to get her husband to give 2 weeks notice and quit the military, even thinking that I don't understand about the military would be a DJ. I DO understand. My bestfriend's husband is military. I also understand that MM COULD have her WH confess to his affair to his superiors and he would get busted down and possibly not have a career in 2 years. She is more worried about him keeping his job than about keeping her marriage.

No CONTACT is MB. telling her that she could save her marriage while there is still continued contact would go against MB. There is no way to get around no contact with MB.

Marinemom, it is your path to take. The path to recovery after an affair is a narrow one and ALL of the steps need to be taken. DrH states all of the time that MB is NOT a la carte where you get to pick which concepts you will and will not use. You have a lot to overcome and this marriage may not be saved. Even when people use MB there is no guarantee. Stick with MB for your BEST chance at saving your marriage. Your choice.

I have one more week until the class is over. His 1stSgt and SgtMaj has told H that they will give him and answer about the tranfer after the class ends. So we'll see in a week. If they wont transfer him then I will have H expose the whole truth to his command. I would rather H work at a fast food joint and have a chance to R than him continue to have daily C with POSOW.

I'm just trying it this way first to see if we can avoid the loss of rank and pay which right now would hurt this family very badly. I'm NOT putting H career first, Im trying to use some tack and avoid any trouble if possible BUT if they won't transfer than the gloves come off and they'll know excatly why "this spouse" wants H to be moved so badly.

I guess we'll see which path I will be taking in a week.

Oh and I've come to a decision about my sister coming to stay with us and you all are right it's not a good idea right now. I've asked friends for their "2 cents" and they agree with you all. There are pros and cons to her coming to stay with us, but I'm not sure if my M can handle the stress it will put on us with bringing my sister and my 2 nephews down here. I want to help but right now money wise and the stress it might put on my M is something I can't afford to chance right now. Besides I strongly disagree with my sis talking to OWH, she is falling for him (over the phone). I told her to stop but don't think she has listened and I don't want that drama brought here.

OK does anyone know of a good gps locator to use that ain't gonna skip around and place H across town when he isn't. I've been using 2 different locators for his phone and for the most part puts him where he is but then other times puts him clear across town. I started using a second one just so I would have 2 working since H was getting upset when I got upset about gps putting him across town instead of at work. The program always puts my phone where I am but it puts H across town sometimes when he is at work. I don't get it. I started using 2 so I could make sure it was the gps but then they both put him there and then one put him one place the other put him someplace other. I'M SO CONFUSED.

I want to begin to trust H again and R our M. H sent me a picture of him in front of the building at work holding another guys phone (for the time) to prove he was at work while the gps put him across town. This is driving me insane. What do I do?

I called his company gysgt today after i drove to H job during my lunch break but couldn't find him or get ahold of him on the phone to verify he was at work. His Gysgt reassured me that he keeps OW on a "very" short leash and does his best to keep them apart and limit any contact as much as possible. OW works directly for Gysgt. Gysgt said that she isn't even at work very much and only there when he needs her and then she is sent home while H is still working. So they aren't hooking up after work and Gysgt is making sure they aren't able to at work. He also told me that he informed OW that he knew about the A and that it better stop or else.

It makes me feel alittle better with the Gysgt watching them both and keeping her close to his side at all times while she is at work. He also told me he was nagging and still fighting the 1stsgt and sgtmaj about getting H transferred with him when he leave after this class ends. I still have my fingers crossed that they let H go after this class but it don't look good. 1stsgt said H is a good marine and don't want to let H go. Gysgt is trying to tell 1stsgt that what good will H be when his family is broken and falls apart due to them being selfish and wanting to keep H there.

One more week and I should get a response about H's transfer or not. Please send all your good wishes and prayers that they let him go. I really need them to so NC can be established.

I've been struggling with whether I should try and contact OWH again or leave it be. OWH got my email but choose not to contact me but instead called OW and asked her. I found this out from OW through a text message she sent H before she was confronted about me knowing. OW was actually texting me since I had H phone but she wasn't aware that I had it since H was with me and I had just confronted him. She stated that OWH got the email from me and then called her. OF course after she was confronted by me she claimed that her H knew about the A but I don't trust her at all so I'm not sure on whether I should bother trying again. OWH has my number since I put it in the email, now he could of put 2 & 2 together since in my email i said that I was H's wife and his wife works with my H and that he needed to call me asap that is was very important. So he might already know but I'm not sure. I have found out where he works and his work number finally since either his facebook account has been deleted or I've been blocked from seeing it (which OW did to me but when I logged onto H account she was still there).

Thoughts? Should I wait to see if H get the transfer first? Since if they don't I'm most likely going to expose fully. I refuse to let daily contact continue if I have a choice. I want to try it tackfully first and see if we can salvage H career but if they refuse to transfer H than it looks like I'll have to "play dirty."

*moved*

Can I bump this to my new name or bump my new name to this one? I changed name because H was reading all my posts and it was causing problems. I would come on here to vent and get everything off my chest since H wouldn't talk to me and then he'd get on here and read everything then get upset over what I said or what others would say.

My new name is Fighting4Family. I want to combine them if I could. Either way is fine just want to go back to just one name since either way H is going to read them regardless so why does it matter anymore.

Don't you think your husband will figure out your new name....now that you just posted it here??

he already did that's why im asking about combining (sorry this is MM) Also SR I see you've posted on DROs thread, DRO is my H) and yes a test was done twice and DS is in fact OC.