How do you discuss your pre-affair relationship with your BS without making it seem like you're justifying your affair? Any tips?

The reality is that the marriage was already not working well before the affair, which has a lot to do with why I began to seek out someone else to fill my emotional needs. But sharing that info makes it seem like I'm trying to say that my BS left me no choice than to have an affair, which is not the case. It was my choice to cross that boundary and to betray him.

I also have been sharing that I have hope that our relationship can become stronger now that we're faced with having to deal with my affair. My BS responds to that by saying, "But we didn't NEED this to strengthen our marriage." I agree, but I want to hold on to hope that we can come out of this together and with a better relationship. Is that so wrong?

I received my Surviving an Affair book yesterday and have already felt that Sue's story describes mine almost perfectly. I'm still trying to lose this emotional attachment that I carry with me for the OM, but not entirely sure how to lose that altogether other than to just give it time. I assume that if I don't allow him to "deposit" into his account, the feelings I have for him will fade. Any thoughts on this?

Better relationship?

How about just different with a lot less trust, respect. With a lot more suspicion, less hope, less confidence.

I mean ultimately, that we will have a better relationship, once the trust and love have been restored.

If the M was so bad before the A why did you not divorce you H first and then go and have another relationship.
What were you thinking while you were bonking OM and still living with your H?
I am just curios to know because you must have told yourself stuff to make yourself feel that what you were doing was ok.
blessing

My thoughts are that you need to first, stick to ONE thread(no I am not the thread police but it IS easier). Second, you learn how to be a better spouse and STOP lying to yourself and your BH. Third, you need to learn all about MB and implement the concepts into YOUR daily life. That means ALL OF THEM. You work on YOUR side of the fence. If your BH doesn't come along, then you will most likely move on. This time, do it the right way.

Have you thought about calling the Harleys? Have you shown your BH SAA? Other than understanding Sue's POV, what else did you learn from the book?

She was SAHM, that is why she didn't divorce then seek someone else, geez how else was she going to feed herself and the kids and have a place to stay.

Trust restored? You know for a fact he will eventually trust you again?

Sorry,
maybe I feel this very personally, but when people say that the M was not working way before the A and that therefore they seeked emotional comfort outside the M..I can't help but hear the very words my WH told me twice (he had 2 As).
I do not think she learned anything from SAA if she still talks that way.....
blessing

Redeem_Me,
Please stick to one post. It gets confusing when there are several posts made by the same person. It takes effort for others to go back, find and then read previous posts so they can get a better idea of what is going on. Please ask the mods to condense your posts into one post.

There is still much to be learned. Read READ and READ some more.

Hi RM-

I would recommend that you get "Torn Asunder" as well as reading all the things you can here on MB and in SAA. It's by Dave Carder, a Christian Minister who also is a specialist in working with infidelity in M.

The book has some good information on dealing with the marital history that contributed to the A and some other stuff...

Hang in there-

I wish you luck! I am a BW & it hurts so much!!! I too am learning a lot from SAA & love this site.

If your BH needs to ask questions about what lead you to the A, I would suggest to you to be honest with him at all costs without getting mad, angry, defensive, or blame him which it sounds like you're not really blaming him. Maybe continue to tell him how this was never his fault. That yes your M had problems...whose doesn't...let him know that you take full responsibility for going outside of your M. Yet, as you get further into the SAA book, you will see that all of us spouses have responsibilities to each other.

You can help him along the way & he can help you. You guys can fall back in love with each other & really seek to be experts at meeting each others top EM's.

Good luck to you!
You are at the right place.
Send your BH here, have him read SAA.
Let him get advice from others...it has helped me so much!

One of the things that separates the MB program from other less successful programs is that Dr. H does not recommend couples go back into the past and discuss all that was wrong.

Doing that keep couples focused on their past failures and opens the door for further love busting and resentment.

Discussing all the ways the your husband failed in meeting your ENs and LB'd you, will not help create romantic love. It will do just the opposite.

Instead, turn your focus to today. Ask yourself how you can best meet HIS ENs and avoid LBing him in any way. Plan out a weekly schedule where you can spend 15 or more hours together meeting the intimate ENs (RC, affection, conversation, and SF).

THAT is how you fall back in love with each other.

Of course, the step before all this is to examine all the areas of your life where you left doors open for others to meet any ENs, and then fix that. Create boundaries that prevent anyone from meeting your ENs. Those boundaries are called extraordinary precautions. Those precautions demonstrate to your husband that you are going to BECOME trustworthy. He'd be crazy to ever trust you if you don't have solid EPs that eliminate outsiders from having opportunities to deposit love units.

All his failures...all your failures...none of it matters in the process of creating romantic love.






Yes, it is so wrong.

The trauma of an affair to a BS can be as devastating as a rape or death of a child according to Dr. Harley's experience with a vast number of BSs. You have emotionally raped your BH and are now telling him what a great opportunity that rape has brought upon him.

That's just sick! And incredibly cruel!




Perhaps viewing him through the lens of reality instead of the fantasy you've created might turn your stomach when you think of him.

This is like saying, "Yes, it's MY fault I actually had sex with OM; but it's YOUR fault that I wanted to."

No, R/M, it is not wrong. It is very much right. To be more forceful, it might be said that the very point of this site is to make everything you do, from now on, geared toward constructing a better relationship with your husband.

Without getting into the "how" for the moment, I just want to tell you it can be done. My wife had become dissatisfied with a number of details in our marriage (which she never clearly told me about). She took the unfortunate path that you did, looking for comfort from another man. Our explosive and, quite candidly, terrifying confrontation, if it did nothing else, showed her how deeply and totally committed I was to making our union better.

It has been only a year since that awful night, and it was something I would wish on no one. But the joint commitment we made to fix the problems and create a better marriage was really the key, and seriously the only necessary, ingredient.

But.......your husband, the injured party, drives the bus here. In my case, I had almost 38 years of wonderful linkage with this woman, and could take the long view that she had earned at least an attempt on my part to reconnect. I pray you can elicit the same effort from your husband.

Simple, you don't.

I've yet to see where MB is about digging into the past. Dr H actually discourages rummaging around in the past. MB is about changing your behaviors to meet your husbands needs, provide extra-ordinary protections, avoiding love busters.

You can do all of that without dredging up the past.

Once you've demonstrated the value of the MB program to your husband by acting out your part, you can us the POJA to negotiate for your needs met.

But frankly, you have to first convince your H that the MB program is worthwhile by demonstrating the benefits of that program to him.

I don't know how far you are from D-Day, but since you've only been registered here for a week, I'm thinking it may be way premature to put your needs first.

Your husband has to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are in NC, that you are 100% committed to him and the marriage before you are in any position to negotiate for him to make changes.

Even then, it's not about the past, it's about now and the future.
Yep, so don't do that again. You don't need to dig through the past to avoid having an affair. You certainly don't need to find fault with his approach to change your personal behavior.

Again, would he say his needs are met? Does he trust you? Until he can trust you, and he decides what it takes to trust you, you really are not in a position to find fault with his approach to marriage.

You really are not in a position to negotiate for changes.
What's wrong with just validating that you probably didn't need an affair to have a better marriage? Why not just agree, tell him he's right, an affair was not needed to have a better marriage.

Then, instead of talking about it, show him the better marriage by doing your part. Talking solves very little. Action speaks 1000x as much as talking.

So what is your plan to show him a better marriage?

Stop worrying about his deposits and concern yourself with how you are going to make deposits into his life. You are in withdrawal. The best way to forget about the OM is to find ways to meet your H's needs.

If your life becomes all about him, there will be no room for the OM.

SMB, great minds think alike.

Great post

Outstanding post, EE!!!

Yes, they do. I even you while you were me.

That's too funny!!

Try this instead:
"I am willing to do whatever it takes to make our relationship stronger." Period, full stop. (Not "now that we're faced with having to deal with my affair" -- which can sound to a BS's ears an awful lot like "now that you pushed me into an affair.")

Like SexyMamaBear indicated, you need to focus toward the present & future, on each day going forward: What will you do today to meet your husband's needs? What will you do to protect his feelings & ease his fears, to make yourself available to him with your time, to be honest with him in everything, to learn & care for his needs? What will you do the next day? "Hoping" for him to make changes is something you can do at night when you're having trouble falling asleep; but otherwise it is non-productive, as it takes your focus away from where it needs to be, which is on the changes you need to make.

With folks like you & me, the thing is, we can't undo our past misdeeds. The way you "deal with" it is to conduct yourself irreproachably in the present & future, with complete patience toward him. If he hasn't sicked a lawyer on you already, then you are playing with house money, and you ought to be & act grateful for that. If you want him to gradually regain a measure of trust for you over time, then you have to be willing to commit an act of trust toward him on a sustained basis, through your good conduct & attentivenesss toward his needs.

Redeem me -- I noticed your first post date was about a week ago.

I am a WS, A started early March with discovery date one mid April, scope discovered early May, essentially separated until 6 days ago and with exactly 6 days more than you on this forum. Bear in mind I may say things that are WAY off base but the other forum members will be quick to point that out, and then I will learn too.

First, breathe. I mean that literally. You haven't told us much about your situation and we hope you will -- this is a safe place for you (you will seriously not believe that A LOT). But you have been holding your breath since you started the A, and now you are still holding it, getting your defenses ready for the fallout so you want to push your timetable to get it over with. Redeem_me -- this part of the process is SO not about you.

Breathe. You will get through this, but not if you aren't breathing. And I am talking about you -- not your H or your M. It is counter-intuitive, but you must take care of you. Set a timer for 30 seconds and tell yourself all the things you like about you. Try to sleep, eat and exercise, try to meditate, whatever. . Assign time when you will think about ANYTHING but the nightmare you are in. You are gathering energy for the fight of your life -- would you try to run a marathon without training?

Give up on the justifications. There isn't one. It makes no difference whether your H is the most hateful human being on the planet. You don't get to do this to him, period. You can fight the justification war to your and your M's death if you like. You will still lose. Give up now, start to build your self esteem (which knows there is no justification) and decide to build something new.

Lose your need to explain. You want to tell him the background of the relationship because you are trying to justify your own bad behavior by somehow explaining that there was some prelude to your cruel decision. Your job is to be open to giving him the information that maters to him. Be open to what he wants. This isn't about you.

Come back here: I'm watching you, I get it, when I don't get it others will tell me, but whatever you do come back here. You will be beaten about the head and shoulders because at times that is what you need. The learning curve here is steep, but do you really want to prolong this?

I've been with my H for 35 years -- he was my first date when I was 15. I have in turn intensely hated, loved, despised, resented, adored, admired -- you name it him. What you and your H are feeling today will change 5 times tomorrow, 100 times in the next month, 1243 times in the next month, and 1,234,769 over your next 35 years. Don't be self indulgent and dwell on this time as determinative of what is to come. There is hope. I promise.

And come back here.

And one more thing. Write down your thoughts about how you got where you are when they come to you. Don't dismiss them or criticize yourself for having them, but write them down so you don't lose that piece of the history that got you where you are today in a frenzy of remorse and wanting to put it all behind you.

What you experienced with your H that set the context for where you are was real and painful and powerful.

Your H and your M has paid the highest possible price for that information -- table it for sure for now, accept that is it no justification, but don't dismiss it either. Been together for 35 years - none if it ever, ever goes away. It just goes underground and then there you are, married for 25 years and having an A and more or less clueless as to why. If you follow this program, you will have a voice in a healing, hopeful way if you want to.

Pull out the questionnaires here and do them. You have to start somewhere. My BH and I did the EN one today, and when he showed me my results -- my "report card" -- I felt smug -- his looks nothing like mine which is a black hole of unmet needs. And then I said -- "wow, what I great wife I am! Except that tiny little detail of going to bed with someone else!"

The questionnaires will give you a place to start -- go through them and pick the one or the part of one you think you can tolerate going through that isn't hugely scary where you know you can disarm for the moment. For example, my H has one habit that drives me mad -- I have been walking 12 steps behind him my whole life. I have put that down to him being tall, etc, but I started our conversation with this non explosive habit issue and told him it made me feel unimportant. He had no emotion invested in his behavior, he was truly sorry, he said he would never do it again, and we had a moment of understanding and agreement. We need a million more of those -- but we started with the one.

Redeem_Me, you need to 86 your idle time when you allow your thoughts to drift to OM. You need to fill it by spending time with your H, or, if H is not around, by doing things for your H. Or use the time to plan fun things that you will do with your H. Sitting around in a self-pitying state thinking about how much you miss OM & his attention & his emails & phone calls, & the anticipation of seeing him, etc., is a dead-end. Find a female friend who supports your marriage in whom you can confide -- somebody who can help hold you accountable. Withdrawal is a *itch, and you're right, it takes time, but you can beat it more easily if you are active, not passive about it. So get active & keep busy.

I will second what Gloveoil said and add to it. I think I remember from your other threads that you are a Christian. Romans 12:2 says "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind..." For a Christian, the ultimate, number one, Bible-ordained, absolute way for a mind-renewal (which is part of what a wayward needs) is God's Word. So read it, copy it, meditate on it. Go through Psalms, buy Kay Arthur's "Lord, I Want to Know You," get into it. For a Christian, time spent like this is NEVER wasted, I don't care what is going on in your life.

I don't know where sapphire is, but that is one major thing she had to do to get herself through this was to bridle her thoughts. She forced herself to think of me when OM popped in her mind, or sought to do something else like go to work or read a book. She trained herself not to think of OM. I very proud of her.

As for your BS I see a need for him to jump on the MB bus with you.

I think the real question is how do you convince your BS that your current marriage needs to change without bringing up the past?

Redeem_Me

From this site:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5061_qa.html


If the link doesn�t work, copy and paste it into your browser. It�s this article:

Coping with Infidelity: Part 3
Restoring the Marital Relationship, by Dr. Harley

God bless,
Rose

Sorry to have started another thread. Didn't realize that I should keep my posts altogether. Not sure how to combine them now exactly. How do I contact a moderator?

* * *

I know it sounds like I'm trying to justify my affair. I'm really not. I think, if my BH was here, he could attest to the fact that I am doing my best to take responsibility for my behavior. Really, the problem is that I have had time to sit with this and decide to move beyond it; my husband, though, has just recently been blindsided by this information. I want to remain hopeful for us both, as I am the one who really needs to prove that I am wanting to make a positive change and desire to be with him; but he doesn't always appreciate when I talk about my hope for the future. Just a fine line really, maybe someone out there gets it.

It was said to keep myself busy when I think of the OM. I absolutely agree with that and have noticed that helping at times. I definitely am thinking, "Why did I do this? How did I let this happen?" and also thinking of the many ways that the OM wasn't really a good guy for me, so that's good, too (right?). It's helping me to let go of my feelings for him, and also helping me to realize that I made the right choice in choosing my husband over him.

I've been giving my husband hugs here and there, and he's welcoming them. We're making progress... Not sure how we'll be able to handle resuming a sexual relationship, but I'm hoping that comes in time. We've actually both felt like going there, but our reasons are vastly different. I want to prove my love for him, and he wants to out of anger and (for lack of a better word) "reclaim" me. (Don't worry, he's not possessive of me; he's very respectful.) I think it's natural for men especially to feel that way, though, like it's instinctual. Any thoughts on this?

I'm mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausted from the events of this past week, so I apologize that my posts are all over the place... Just trying to work through this...

Thank you all for your words of encouragement AND discouragement (in a good way). I do need to keep my thoughts on how to show my H love during this time and what I can do to become a better wife.

Reedem_Me

This is true:
�he doesn't always appreciate when I talk about my hope for the future�

because this is true:

�my husband, though, has just recently been blindsided by this information.�

He is in crisis mode right now, which is not a good time to try to convince him of your side of the situation.

You can�t change someone else, you can only change yourself. Begin to do whatever you have to do in order to become the best person you can be. Determine to be the best wife you can be, no matter how your H acts right now (do not accept emotional abuse and violence, of course).

�and also thinking of the many ways that the OM wasn't really a good guy for me, so that's good, too (right?).�

Do not think of OM at all.

�Just a fine line really, maybe someone out there gets it.�

We get it, but it�s not a �fine line.� There is a very distinct line between an H in crisis mode and a WW deciding �to move beyond it.� He needs time to decide what he wants to do, and time to heal and recover. The amount of time he needs will be on his personal schedule.

This is the voice of experience speaking here � I am an FWW.


God bless,
Rose

RM, as Rose said, it is not a fine line.

Did you read my earlier post to you? Your husband has been through a trauma comparable to rape. Let that sink in, RM. If you can understand the immensity of the blow he has taken (and no, you don't yet understand, but I have hope that you will), you can then begin to nurse him back to health.

You cannot treat cancer with an aspirin and some hope.

You cannot treat a heart attack with an Alka-Seltzer and some hope.

You cannot treat head trauma with a bandaid and some hope.

Hope is good. But you've still got to have the proper instruments and medicines necessary to treat the life-threatening injury.

Trying to find a "positive" from the affair is not the right approach to demonstrating hope. All that does is minimize the enormity of his suffering and is disrespectful to him.

A better approach would be to DO the steps of MB on your side. That will SHOW him your hope. We can all talk about hope, but what does it LOOK like? SHOW HIM your hope by creating the best darn marriage you can on YOUR side.

He won't start creating it on his side for a long time. Why? Because he's in ICU and still trying to live through the next few hours. It's a long road before a BS leaves ICU and gets to go to the "main floor". He cannot carry his side right now. If you are serious about recovery, you need to carry both of you for awhile.

P.S. To contact the mods, click on the "Notify" button at the bottom right of any post on your thread.

Better for you to hear from some of the FWWs on this, I think.

But my 2 cents, for what it's worth:
Your reasons for resuming sex don't have to be the same as one another's. My wife also went through a spell where sex was partly about re-staking her 'claim' on me. There were also times when she didn't want to touch me. (BSs have to fight through horrible mind-images re: the physical aspect of the affair.) I let her take the initiative; I didn't feel I was worthy of her, and I sure as heck was not going to push her re: getting back to sex. But I also sure as heck wasn't going to rebuff her. So my suggestion for you is, take it as fast/far as your H wants to take it. (Not having been a BH myself, I can't speak to whether a BH would be more "okay" than a BW with a WS taking the initiative.) But bottom-line, physical closeness is important; affection and SF are likely among the ENs that were previously going unmet for one or both spouses; and it can help your recovery.

P.S. -- Make sure you've gotten tested, though.