I just wanted to let those who have helped me and have been following my stitch, I'm back! I had to pull my thread down because I wasn't sure if someone was reading it. I will post an update soon. I have to remember where I left off. There have been some changes.

Here is an update. Gathered evidence and exposed. After about 2 days WH still didn�t realize because he didn�t return calls.

I asked him if he wanted to work on the marriage the morning of the 12th. He said no so I asked him to leave.

That afternoon got a text asking what I told and to whom. I didn�t respond. He sent another less friendly on that night asking the same thing, didn�t respond. He e-mailed the next day even shorter �so you aren�t going to tell me anything.� As he got more angry he started telling people things like
It�s a good thing he is taking the high road and not talking about my colorful issues. When people pressed he took it a step further and said it was all a lie and I was slandering him. Here are some lovely FB quotes. The really bad one was deleted.
There are always two sides to a story, especially when one side is so egregious
Character assassination reveals the weakness of the assassin...
Thanks to all my good friends for your support!
Seeing as how all my family and his family know what is going on and are FB friends with him you can imagine how they feel about this. The only replies or likes were from a couple of people who don�t know what is going on. They thought he was just being funny.
I finally reached out and texted him inviting him over for the day on Monday because the kids have the day off. He got here just before noon. He was very stiff uncomfortable and barely got out a hey when I saw him. As the day progressed he got more comfortable. It was interesting to watch. He changed into comfy clothes, lounged on the couch. Then, he took a shower and got into sleep pants. I thought to myself, I hope he doesn�t think he�s staying. Then my little one looks at me with bright eyes and says �Daddy's staying home.� I said no, who told you that? She said �Daddy did, we took a vote.� I have been pretty good at keeping focused on the positive but that made me so angry. I had to figure out a way to talk to him not knowing where he was mentally. I finally talked to him and he let me have it saying he talked to people I lied to and straightened out the story. Those people and his councilor said I had no right to make him leave and to get back into the house.
In that talk I let the following out not telling him how I know.
I told him I knew about the condo. wiggle wiggle lie lie. I gave him the address Quiet.

Then I brought up the cashed in stocks and rolled over the 401K with money taken out of that. I told him I was worried we were going to get slammed at tax time and I was also afraid we would loose the house.

Finally I mentioned he lied about staying over his friend V's house. (I pulled this one out of the affair stuff when he was denying that) There was denial. Then I told him I knew about the hotel. He didn't seem to react to it. I don't remember the babble. I talked a little more and we hugged and ended the conversation. Next day all quiet on the western front and he is nice and helpful. Has been ever sense.

So we have had a "time out" where he has been running things by me helping out etc. I have been plan A'ing. Now I need advice on my next planned step. I am going to mention to him that we need to talk about the finances and get a game plan together. Then I am going to tell him we need to sit down alone together and talk about what direction we are going in the marriage. We need to pick a direction and make solid plans to move in that direction.
That will give him a day or two to think before he has to pick a direction.
Thoughts?

Swallowed hook line and sinker. Now who is on the hook the BS or the WS?

@LGLG - Glad your back. So let me ask you. The last couple of weeks of drama and kicking him out of the house was so that you could go back into Plan A with WS back into the home?

He's so full of $h!t it's not even funny. He's playing you. He plans on taking this thing further underground since you don't appear to be rolling over and taking it. He needs to buy some time to figure out his next step now. Proceed with caution.

I admit I was caught off guard when he said he wasn't leaving. The heat is on because he is getting caught up in the lies. The plan was for him to leave the house if he was done. I felt he needed to be shocked into reality. He thought he could just take his time and leave when he was ready. It rattled him but not enough. I invited him over to hang with the kids as a plan A see what your missing thing. Then I was going to stay in plan A for a bit and move to dark plan B. Obviously that failed so I have to try a new plan. That is what I am working on now. That and not going off on a huge LB rant. I still shake my head at his behavior.

Do you have any advice?

Do you have any advice for how I should proceed?

I will Jmwc,
Can you give me any advice for the MANY family members that want to help shake him? They are asking me what to do and what to say.

Also, do you have any advice on what to do next? I am open to any advice.

I forgot to mention. When I realized WH was planning on staying I called my BIL and his GF and left messages. I never heard back. I was going to have him come talk to his brother. I was ticked off at WH and was questioning if my calls were being ignored. GF called me the next day. She seemed a little off and in talking she was giving me advice like I was a kid. You to need to talk etc. She said BIL called me but I didn't answer the phone. No call from him registered on my phone. Jury is still out on if they ignored the call but I suspect so. I called my SIL also and she didn't call back. I did get an e-mail from her the next morning asking me if everything was ok. She was at her mom's house late that night taking care of her.
I went to see MIL today. Got more filler for the cracks in his stories. At one point MIL said she doesn't understand why someone would have an affair with him. I thought that was an odd statement and she misspoke. Then she said "If you were single would you have an affair with a middle aged balding fat man?" For once I was speechless.

People want to tell me what he is saying about me and what his story is. I have heard some of it. I've gone back in forth on this. Will it help to know? I know the truth, will it make me want to tear holes in his story?

Still thinking of throwing a surprise party only the guest of honor won't like it.

Hi LGLG. was looking for you a few days ago and was worried. i just want to say one thing. you are NOT going crazy. NOT. i know there are and will be times when you feel like you must be mad or loco, bc YOU can see the truth and no one seem to be able to @ times. from your BiL, his GF, your SiL and your MiL... your WH is back spinning the BS and they are buying it somewhat. YOU know the truth. it is pretty self evident.

from an independent observer here, how do you explain buying a friggin condo? without telling your W and the mother of your 4 children? YOU are the one drinking? WTF? and then how about spending the night at some apt complex and then a hotel when you have a perfectly good home w/ a wife and family? there have been times when i questioned my own sanity, but that is what happens when you deal w/ a WS. it is like that movie Dark Knight. Heath Ledger played the Joker and he ultimately killed himself. supposedly went crazy bc he "bought" into the character too much. too close ot the flame? dont know. no one ever will. there will be times when you will ask yourself "how can it be? have i come to the wrong conclusion?" NO. you have not.

you need to piece together a readable chronology of events if you have not already done so. lay out a detailed list of the whos (I know, hard here), whys and whats. his counter allegations i would say are almost beneath you. you are the one who is the sole provider for those children bc you are the one not engaged in risky and addictive behavior, be it the A, his drug use or alcohol use. you are not the one engaged in extremely risky financial moves that is potentially jeopardizing the family.

as far as your children go, my kids reacted the same way to my W when her A's were revealed to them less than a month ago. my W was livid and they sided w/ her (bc they want to keep the family together and little do they know of their father's behavior to dissolve the family and end his M). but the seed was planted. cover that one up honey is what i said. you be the one to explain it to them later on when are family is no more. sure don't tell the children? but let them start pondering what mommy or daddy has done.

my thoughts are with you. prayers as well. God is with you LGLG.

LGLG, I wondered what happened to your thread. Good to see you back.

My thoughts are that you should have ended that conversation with a goodbye and not a hug.

You realize that he probably used his child to get himself back into the house, right? He may have said something like Hey, let's ask Mommy if I can stay tonight. You'd like that, wouldn't you? If that's what went down, it's freaking shameful for a father to do that.

Is anything really resolved, then? The condo and the other things you listed? It sounds as though it's being slowly swept under the rug and that you're losing confidence in your ability. Time to get it back, LGLG. You did it before and can do it again.

Savemymarr, Thanks for the post. Yours actually helped me realize what info I didn�t post in my first one. I tried to get the basic stuff that happened before I left then move on.

I did have a couple of maybe I�m crazy moments before and just after the exposure. Then another one when he �took a vote� and I reached out to his family and no one called back. I actually had a brief moment of �Maybe I am crazy and dreaming all this and I am going to wake up in the hospital!� That passed pretty quickly. WH is the one who tells me people believe him. Do I? If someone does it is one of his fake friends. His SIL (actually all his siblings) believe me. Some were a little confused by his spin, he can be convincing but after I talked to them it made WH look even worse. Now they not only believe me but now they know he lied to cover it up. I think what he has done I think his BIL and his GF made a poor judgment call if they did tell him to move back in. I saw GF at his mother�s house. It was the first time I saw her, another SIL�s and MIL. It was a little awkward but I just went about as normal and then they did. I know they love me and believe me they just didn�t know how to act. SIL (that I talk to a lot) mentioned to me that it will be awkward at first and she is right. People sometimes don�t know what to say. I have to keep that in mind. I know it must be tough for the in laws. WH is their flesh and blood but they are closer to me and know me better.

I had a couple of these. Not anymore, no one that I know is buying his BS. He is just in la la land. Talking to people (if he really is) he knows will buy his BS and avoiding those who won�t. Those that don�t buy his BS that he has talked to all talk is through text and e-mail. That gives him enough time for him to think of a spin before he replies. That is why it is critical for someone to catch him face to face before he can spin.

This one is true in the emotional and spiritual way. WH is the breadwinner. (when he is working) Per our agreement when we first starting having children I have been a SAHM. He wasn�t as helpful with the menotnunus stuff like feeding, diapers and baths but he played with them and talk with them. The change happened a few years ago, I suspect he started using coke and has been on and off. I don�t have solid proof. People keep asking me how the kids are doing. The truth is they are doing just fine, they are used to Daddy being busy. WH just doesn�t get that. I even brought that up on Monday. I talked about him not spending time with the kids when that was the purpose of him coming over. He said I talked to them and then they did their own stuff like they always do. I said, doesn�t that tell you something? The next day he was much more engaging. I think after observing me chatting and laughing at things they and their friends do he realized he had no idea who or what we were talking about.

How far do I have to go with this? It could be a novel!
I have done some of it. Every time I talk to someone another lie comes out.

Pull a full and complete credit report. Have you done this yet? We have had BS lose thousands and thousands of dollars because WS moved money before moving out.

Plan A is good, but it does not mean plan doormat.
Your instincts are getting better (BS o meter). What are your support people telling you?

What does he say about the condo? The missing money?

Not probably, did and it pissed me off to no end. It wasn�t an ask mommy, it was far worse. He casually asked the older kids if they wanted him to move back in. From talking to them they said yea ok or something like that. They had no idea what he was up to. He asked the same thing to the little one. Of course she said yes. He asked her last and after she said yes he told her we took a vote and the yes� win.

The day after he moved himself back in something came in from our mortgage company. I opened it and it wasn�t about the mortage on this house, it was the condo. It was an I�m sorry we can�t process your loan because� the credit information incomplete box was checked. Condo is now gone.

No sweeping things under the rug. Either he stays, cleans up everything under the rug and steam cleans the rug and kisses my a�. or he takes the rug and everything under it and leaves. I don�t think I have lost my confidence, I just need help with a STRONG plan to light a bone fire under him.

Can I pull a credit report on him? Some of his stuff won't show up on mine.
Condo, he lied at first. Then he said I knew he got approved for a loan, he told me and I knew he was moving out. (went with the ok, she knows about the condo I will just try to convince her I told her about the loan because she already knew I was moving out)
He didn't say anything about the money, moved the conversation to something else. This is why we need a serious sit down. That was not a planned confrontation.
I don't understand what you mean by what are my support people telling me? That WH is a bleep?

My thoughts and my advice is this. You need to Plan A for a little while. Get your Plan B figured out. What are you going to do to get into Plan B? Get your ducks in a row.

Why do I say this? What has changed in your sitch? Think about it. Did your WH change? NOPE. The only thing that changed was how YOU look at it. Nothing else has changed. I think you are being gaslighted my friend.

So, now you need to take a breath, look at your sitch and devise YOUR plan. Not one that is contingent on what your WH does or doesn't do.

My plan is to talk to him and get a direction. Then go in that direction. I can still Plan A while we are moving in the direction, right?
If he says he is still done I will tell him he needs to find a place and set a solid date. I will even offer to help find one for him. I will also tell him that his place needs to be at least 5 miles away for ME. (trying to think of the wording here. I need a buffer zone. I also need help with the wording when he starts his BS about being close for the kids.) This is when I will let him know it is in his best interest to be out by the 1st because my parents are coming. He is so far gone I don't even think he realizes how much they hate him right now.

I know WH hasn't changed, he just knows I am not as much of a pushover as he thought. What do you mean by "The only thing that changed was how YOU look at it" ?

In order to make my plan don't I at least need to confirm if he is still done? If he says he is in and doesn't SHOW me that then that means he is gaslighting, what do I do then? I honestly want to find some condos or apartments FOR rent, print them out and put them on his nightstand. I know he is also going to pull the "we don't have the money now for me to move out" (ummm... and who's fault is that?) I will tell him to use his money that he has in his account.

Ok, it took me a while but I think I got it. I have been off MB too long.

I will ask WH if he is still done. Should be a yes by his actions. (or should I even ask?)
Then I will say, ok we need to get a plan together so we can move forward. (before this I will HAVE the apartments and condo's printed out) I will hand him the printouts and say, I found these, they are all available by Feb. 1st. Then I will move forward with my plans. In my stick I will also tell him that while he is in this house he needs to respect me and not come and go like he is single. I will also expect him to co parent.
How's that for a plan?

Advice?

Keep him on a very short rope. And you are the one setting conditions that he has to abide by, not the other way around. No more leaving at night and going out for hours on end. He comes home and spends time with the family. No more girlfriends. He writes NC letter to one/all of them. No drugs. No spending family money like a drunken sailor behind your back. He also needs to be transparent and account for his time, check in with you if he has to be gone. No more secret life. These need to be the conditions for him to be allowed back into the house. He can't just come back and say, "I know you kicked me out, but I am going to do what I want and stay here." If he doesn't meet those conditions, file for legal separation and get him removed from the house, finances separated, support in place, etc. He needs to know there are consequences for acting the way he was acting and you will not just roll over for him. You need to show tough love to an addict. Any weakness will be exploited.

No, don't help him move out. That's his problem, for his big-boy pants.

It's fine for you to set a date in the near future when he needs to be moved out. Hold to it, and just fog talk and change the subject whenever it comes up.

I'm guessing at least some of his family members are a bit rattled by having him lie to their faces. If they speak out, good, if not, don't stress it. Just by him (and OW) knowing that people know and disapprove, it's putting pressure on the A already. Getting blasted by family and friends is just a cool bonus.

Stay strong - he's the one who is crazy right now. Make your home a haven, avoid R issues as much as possible, and continue to snoop.

You can do this.

My only concern is that we have a current poster, who's WH took out a $150,000 credit line (against the marital home) and gave it to the OW.

Everyone believed that she (BS) would be able to get this money (or at least 1/2 of it) back. By all standards of justice, this should be a no brainer.

She recently has had poor luck in court and it appears that she will NOT get it back, - not anytime soon then, but the final divorce paperwork is not settled yet.

jmwc95,
This is my plan if he says he is committed. The problem is after he pulled his crap on Monday things had to settle a little, I needed to think, reset and make a plan. During the conversation he said he was still done. At one point near the end he did say he wasn't sure and had to think about it.

I have to talk to him so I am CLEAR on what direction he is moving in. He has to say it. He already knows what direction he is moving. Either he is still leaving and making plans (can you say underground?) or he wants to stay and is trying to do so with as little consequences as possible.
He is helping around the house, running things by me including informing me of where he is going and who he is meeting. He hasn't gone out much. Job interviews and meeting a friend (I know and like) to discuss what happened in the interview. This could be him trying to work his way in or it could be playing nice while he makes his exit plan.

I need advice on what to say and how to ask him this. No wiggle room. This needs to be done asap, like today or if it doesn't work for ME, then tomorrow.

If I just say what you posted he may say "I told you I was done." He needs to be vulnerable and admit he wants to stay married if that is what he wants. Then I will tell him what what you said.
If he is out then I will say what I posted before. Find something to rent that we can afford (give him a price range). Use the money he has saved to pay his bills. If he balks at getting a no frills place I will ask him "What is more important, you have a nice place with amenities or your children have a roof over their heads and having their basic needs met." I may throw in "After we are no longer financially tied and child support and alimony are settled you will be able to buy your on place." Hmmmm.... I wonder if he thought about Alimony?

WOW!
Sad thing is he can't do this to me. We really don't have anything left. I can't seem to get the ones that love us to wrap their heads around that. Family members tell me to protect the savings, save the house. The house is upside down and there IS no savings. He cashed in the only stocks we have left. The only thing that I can try to get frozen is his retirement money. I am not sure if/how I can do that. Yes, I know call a lawyer asap. I can at least wrap my head around him doing this to me but the fact that he really doesn't believe this effects the kids is incomprehensible.

Do you know where I can get a deal on a short choke collar?

barbiecat,
I am still wondering what you meant by this question? They are asking me what to do and what to say.

Oh, and one of my close friends works for a company that manages huge apartment complexes. She could e-mail him. I am not responsible for what she says though!

Yes she knows.

hi LGLG. your H is not your H. he is some effing alien whose head is in his culo (Scarface = rear end). he is trying to cake eat. he is "helping" and stil doing his married living single bit. time to put up or shut up WH. [censored] or get off the pot. i am not as experienced as some of the other posters, but you are doing great. this can be VERY confusing to deal with i know. easy to post about, read about (someone else's experiences) but having to live it? wow.

plan A, plan B. that's it. if need be, plan D. while you are doing the 1st, think about the 2nd. for all intents and purposes your H has not been living up to his end of the bargain. he is not employed is he? he in engaging in stupid, poorly thought out behavior playing everyone at risk.

his family is just that. HIS family. it is good that they support you on a level but as a poster said above they are having some difficulty teasing thru the BS. it will gel in time. it will make a difference but maybe not now. you have planted your seeds. you are doing a great job under very trying circumstances.

think plan B and what you need to do to implement it. plan D too. what would that take. tough love. no more codependency. your H needs to be the man he thinks he is. dont know if he ever considered himself a man of honor. most guys fancy themselves as being "good guys" or men of honor. your H? right now, nothing could be further from the truth. you are an angel. remember it is HE that is the problem.

following the right course can be hard @ times but it is within you.

Oh, believe me, I know my husband is gone and WH is here. I also know I may never see my husband again. I hear you about the pot. Used that one a few times in talking to people. That and put up or shut up�. And get out!

I agree about the plans. I am not messing around. I have to talk to him. Make solid plans and execute them whether he likes them or not. If he stalls or balks about moving out I will remind him of the deadline and if he hasn�t found a place he likes he will have to find somewhere to live temporarily. If need be I will have him served. I don�t give a flighing [censored] if he calls me every name in the book. Anyone who actually believes what he says is not someone that I care about anyways.


It is already gelling with them. His mom was a little confused after talking to him. He was planting the seeds months in advance. I think her gut was telling her one thing and after he LIED to her she started questioning her gut a little. Now she knows her gut was right. They are a little torn because they believe me. So now they are left with a family member doing something so horrific to someone they love dearly, me. They were all worried I was going to leave the family. They understood I had every right to but they love me. I told them although there will be some major changes I will still keep contact with the family. That was a relief to them all. My SIL that I talked to first a long time ago actually started sobbing on the phone when I told her she will always be my sister. They will, that I know. I just won�t be around at family functions were he will be present. I have also made it clear that if I go into Plan B I am not to hear anything about him and he me. They all understand that.

Working on both plans right now!
You have me at codependency. I take ownership of that one. I didn�t realize I was doing it but I did and I am done doing it.


Yes he did and he was many years ago. When I think back it is mind blowing. If someone told him this is where he would be in the future he would have told them they were nuts. His moral, ethical, spiritual and financial beliefs and values have been lowered over the years but more so over the past 2-3 years and plummeted the last 3-6 months.

I spit my coffee out on this one. He has said to me before (when he obviously has issues with himself so he has to take me down a few) �Everyone thinks you are so perfect. They don�t know you the way I do.�
Thanks for the laugh!


Oh, he has been blame shifting me for years convincing me it was me not him but believe me I KNOW he is the problem. I�m on the road now, and I know I can do it. Thanks for the encouragement.

LGLG, I think that where you are having the problem with all of this is, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR WH WANTS. You see, what you need to do is Plan A your WH until, let's say, the 1st. That will be your Plan B date. Up until then, you make home nice and pleasant and you plan for YOUR finances and visitations for YOUR children. Write out your Plan B letter. Have an addendum about finances and visitations and file for LS if need be. Get your IM set up. Go DARK.

DON'T figure out WHERE your WH will and will not live, it's not up to you. He can live in his car, live at his parent's, heck he can live in a cardboard box for all you care.

It is out of your control and you will no longer have any say in HIS life. He needs to take care of himself. What you need to do is remove YOU and YOUR CHILDREN from his life. He needs to change his current path before he can come home to you.

I thought your husband purchased a condo? Can't he live there?

Do you have copies of all the bank account statements so you know what he (and you) have in there now and before?

Where is this condo. Ask him to sell it and give you the money. Or go live there himself and get OUT.

I understand it doesn't matter what he wants. He isn't going to get it. The reason I wanted to talk to him is clarification on what direction he is (or thinks he is) headed. Because of the crap he pulled on Monday I want to know I have it clear in my head. He may be thinking he has decided to stay and he is doing what is required of him. I want to talk to him to help ME not for him. Does that make sense?

I thought I addressed the condo. Financing didn't go through. A letter came in the mail and I opened it.

I am printing them out for the last few months and following the money trail. I also am checking all paperwork. I wish I could find out what is in his checking account but I don't have access to it. I could ask Nephew to call as WH but that is unethical and I think that is too much to ask of him.

Ok scotland you can stop banging your head on the desk. Sometimes I need to think for a while and process things. I have been working on these things. Guess what the date is? Feb. 1st. While I was doing my thinking a lot of things were running through my head. I usually go through a list of things I want to say to him and have to process it before I get why I can't. I guess I'm a thinker.

I did say something to him a little while ago. I went in the FL room to look for something. I didn't realize WH was in there. I casually said something like "Hey, I don't know where you are with your plans. I just wanted to let you know my parents are coming in on the first. I'm sure you don't want to be here when they get here." Then I left the room. Some may think that was not a good move. I didn't say it to warn him of my date, I guess it may have been a warning fire LB across his bow. As an added bonus it felt GOOD!

You are thinking of being waaaaaaay too helpful for WH. You don't help him move out or figure out what he's going to do. The two things you may do for him involving moving out while still in Plan A are:

1. If need be, if he absolutely won't do it, pack his things in boxes and set them out front when it's time for him to leave.
2. Let him know how much money you expect from him each month once he is gone, so he has an idea how itty bitty bittle he has left to live on. HOW he lives on what's left really isn't your problem. So he lives in a cardboard box? Supervised visitation with a family member who has a home.

That's the extent of your concern - letting him go, and refusing to let the kids stay with him in their own little cardboard boxes.

Neak,
I got it Neak. I have been going about my business and planning. Last night I went out with 2 of the kids to hang out down town with their friends from church. It is like a festival they have every 3rd Friday. I walked around with the adults and the kids ran around with different groups. I brought home food for the 2 kids at home and fried green tomatoes for WH. He was very excited and thanked me. He was very nice, brought me water in bed because I was too cold to get out. He kept coming in, asking me things etc. Then he said "Hey, can we sit down and talk on Sunday?" I said "Sure" smiled and went about my business. That should be an interesting talk.

I was out with 2 kids all morning and into the afternoon. When I got home I noticed the mattress WH had been sleeping on was gone. He must have either rented a moving truck or had a friend help him move it. He may have taken more stuff, don't know, don't care. Little DD and oldest son were here all day. DD seems fine and didn't say anything. Oldest son obviously knows something but I didn't ask. Doesn't effect my plans just makes things easier on me. The only thing is dealing with DD. She is going to be crushed again. I hope she says something to him.

Hey LGLG!

Sorry you're going thru this, and the Ws at this juncture of the ema, is likely to gaslight you and admit crazy crazy lies to others to justify his behavior.

You would roll over laughing (although I didn't at the time when I found out)at the lies my xwh told others after i exposed to him and during the D. He told people he had sole custody of our child. He even told two women he met that he had sole custody of our son and that he had to divorce me b/c I was in an insane asylum. Yep. And I only found that one out b/c a friend of mine (a doc) went out on a date accidentally with the SAME women my then seperated xh did. Isn't it funny that a man who is clinically diagnosed with two personality disorders could call his more than sane ex wife crazy? It's called lies and justification. Don't buy into it. He's also gaslighting you trying to make you think he didn't buy that condo.

They will lie their butts of. And here's what you need to do.

I always advocate hiring a PI. You can have them investigate a few issues and it won't cost that much. Just get the proof 100 percent that 1)he's having an affair 2)he bought a condo with family monies.

that's all. You have irrefutable proof and the world needs to know that. It's perfectly fine to re-expose with that valid truth. I did. And it's hard to compete with that if you're a wayward you know?

Verifiable truth is the way to go. They can't wiggle their wormy way around it.

Hugs, stay strong, and go with getting the truth. Then you can calmly show it to your family and mutual friends and even friends of the OW and re-expose. Don't let him bully you or his family and friends into buying his bulls((t.

I have to bite my cheek from laughing. I don�t laugh when he uses the kids. He has been planting seeds of doubt about me for months with others including the kids. He also tells my son things, like when he moved out some stuff today. Then my son is caught in the middle. After I asked him to leave I had to tell our little one. She was crushed of course. Then he pulls the crap he did on Monday knowing full well he isn�t staying. Now DD thinks he is staying and her heart is broken again.

Here�s the kicker that happened today. Last night he asked for the food stamps card. Yes we are on food stamps and he is on unemployment. I thought he was going to use it to get some food for the house. Now I know he used it for himself. Literally taking food from his own children�s mouths.


I already did this and more. I have more than enough proof. He has done the lying and people who count know the truth. He is avoiding his family and any contact from anyone who might say something he doesn�t like. This is another reason he has to go. He is using me (duh) and the kids as a cover. Acting like we are a family and everything is the same. He is a HUGE cake eater.

BTW, just in case you missed it. The condo fell through but I have the paper trail from when he looked at it to offer, to loan application, to letter stating they could not proceed because they were missing financial credit information. My BIL has been watching it to see if it went through and it hasn't. He took a mattress, blanket, pillows & TV stand. He may have taken some other small stuff but I think he is staying in a friends spare room. He has packed NOTHING. He is going to be a busy man.



I have exposed to loved ones and friends. I will have to pull out the nuclear bomb on him. I may need help on how to do that. He is SO far gone it isn�t even funny. Well, it is funny to watch him lie and think he is fooling me but not funny because of what it is doing and will do in the future to the kids.

The loan did not go through because of missing info. Can you call the bank and see if he is trying to add the financial info and proceed with the loan?

Banks are desperate (but conservative about lending, thank goodness) for loans now (or the service fee/loan innitiation fees) associated with this type of transcaction.

I am really really good with finances about credit now. I was Iin the bank last weel to be added on my college students account -- and EVEN I was talked into applying for this "better" credit card account (that I did not even want) with a zero intrest rate for 6 mos. - but goes to 19% in Summer... HELLO? what was I thinking? I am going to candel it this week.

(((LIGTG)))

I can't get information if I am not on the loan application. I am looking into Lawyers today. I have to see one ASAP, I should have done already done it. My mistake. (gave myself a 2x4 for you) I guess I thought after exposure he would at least move out quietly. I have to go the legal route. I know it is common here (sadly) but I have trouble wrapping my brain around how someone who used to have a great moral, ethical and financial compass could become a person lacking in all. I person that the old H I used to know would despise.

Hey, I just thought of something. I can just ask WH if the loan is going through. Why didn't I think of that before?



Just having a little laugh at myself this morning.

Just got the mail today. I "accidentally" opened something for WH. It was a collection notification. He has been getting them regarding the apartment he rented 2 years ago. (Duh, I know) He signed a 12 month lease (told me it was 6) and wrote a letter to the managers at the 6 month mark claiming he was moving over seas and needed to get out of the lease. Yea, like they weren't going to check that little fact. So WE owe because of HIS actions. This notification says that they have reported it to all 3 credit agencies. So, as I thought he got rejected for a mortgage because of his own stupidity. Well that and the fact that he doesn't have a job. I put the opened mail with the rest of his unopened mail. I will tell him I opened it by accident. I know he won't believe me but that's not my problem. It will send him a clear message that I know he has been avoiding dealing with it and that is the reason it got rejected not because I was late paying the mortgage this month. He can blame me all he wants, the TRUTH is in the collection notifications.

Don't lie. Just say, "Married people don't have secrets from each other." Every time he complains or accuses you of violating his privacy, repeat it.

You can't get information from the bank, but you can sure give it. I would call up, ask to talk to a manager, and let them know very nicely that you and WH are still married, not legally separated, and they will need to have you sign a quitclaim if any deal in the future is to go through, as well as receiving paperwork from the bank specifically stating that you are not liable in the event that WH skips on them. Be sure to ask for the full name and title of the person you talk to, and write it down.

That will help to protect you, and get an additional bit of exposure done, too. Once they know you're in the picture, they would be fools to proceed without having you sign off.

Thanks for the advice Neak.
I didn't have to say anything about the letter that came in. He took the mail and went through it. He saw it, he knows I saw it but didn't mention it.

Here's a little update. WH went to a concert Saturday night (must be nice) and didn't come home. I thought he was gone, wrong. He came home Sunday morning like nothing was going on. He was fast asleep on the couch when I took the kids to church at 6pm. After church was youth group so we didn't get home until after 9. He was still here and ended up spending the night on the couch. He got up in the morning yesterday, got dressed and headed out. I got an e-mail from him. He mentioned finances etc. and then told me he was going to his mom's in the afternoon. I didn't read it until the evening. As I suspected, he made it a light visit with no talk of what is going on. I am sure he made it seem like he was doing it for her but we all know it was an evasion move.

He came home all happy and in a good mood. Mentioned they made brownies etc. It was his not to subtle way of letting me know I didn't fool her into believing my lies. Gotta have another talk with her, she is going to be angry about the latest crap he is pulling and the fact that he is still lying to her. His family are the ones that can have the greatest impact but they are so messed up it isn't helping.

I went to the store with the food card. No food came into this house and I knew he used it but I didn't know how much he spent. (I know, STUPID me) There was around $250 left when he used it. There was $31.09 left. At one point last night I casually asked him what he bought with the card because I didn't notice anything new and I want to make sure I don't buy duplicate items. I really caught him off guard with that question. He stumbled with his words trying to think fast. He mumbled Pizza and some other stuff. I forget, I will have to look at the list. Ummm... yea.

Today we finally had a talk. There were tense moments where he started to get angry but I managed to keep things down. I may have LB'd a little but over all I think I did well. He brought up the stories I was telling people. I told him I told people the truth. He tried to get me to bite on that one. What he did say that shows a change is he said "your truth" not "lies and slander" We talked about the kids and he insinuated I talked to the kids with out running it by me per our agreement and I was keeping him from talking to them. I told him I told them the truth. They deserve to know the truth, they are living in this house and they see what is going on. I also said I am not keeping him from talking to his own children, he can talk to them any time he wants. We talked about him moving out and my parents coming. He said "You told me you didn't want me here when they get here." (I said they were coming and I'm sure he doesn't want to be here) I told him, you said you were done 3 months ago. I can't put my life on hold for you. Some back in forth there but I made my points about this being his decision and not what I wanted. I want my old H back. I told him the terms. etc. He also said something about papers arriving soon. I asked him if he filed. He said "Well, I am in the process." (ok) I brought up the fact that there was only $31.09 left on the card and it wasn't even enough to cover what I bought yesterday so we don't have any $ to feed the kids until the 10th. THAT one hit him, that I know. Then I got up and went about my business. He didn't move for a while. A little later our paths crossed and I said nicely "Did you eat? would you like me to make you some eggs?" He mumbled no thank you. After a while he lightened up and we talked pleasantries. I was on the lap top looking at coupon sites when he came over and told me he was heading out for a bit. (I could tell he was feeling uneasy) I said "oh, ok." He stood there for a bit then moved closer to me, put his hand on my shoulder and started squeezing it. I put my hand on his, he didn't move his hand. I got up to give him a little hug. It turned into a long tight hug. Then he said "ok, I'll see you later." and walked off. My laptop is right by the front door and he didn't go that way so I thought he went to get something. It took about 5 minutes to realize he went out through the garage. Is someone feeling a little guilty?

So, how do you guys think I did?

I think you did great, lglg. Considering I would have tossed him out on his ear by now

I am worried that he is using your house as a flophouse, coming and going as he pleases without any spousal effort at all. And what worries me about that is that puts you in danger of having your love bank completely drained, with no room for recovery.

Tell us about Plan B. What are your thoughts on that?

I did toss him out remember? He came back! He's like a darn stray cat.
He IS using me and the kids as a cover (pretending he is a family man) We talked about this today. I didn't say what I just told you. I told him it was unfair to the kids that he moved back in with out consulting me knowing he was only staying for a while and still planning to move out for good. (Blah Blah) I told him now the little one thinks everything is fine and she is going to be crushed when she is told the truth. He said something like "You're going to talk to her?" I said "You can tell her, I think that is a great idea" I also mentioned the other kids know the truth and know you are only here for a little while. They are smart, they see what is going on. Right now I can not make him leave. I have an appointment with a lawyer. I have to legally make him leave. I have been working on my plan B letter but I am having some problems wording it. I know I am supposed to say something about me creating an environment that made is affair possible. I KNOW I have made mistakes but I just can't say that. You know my stitch, it's a mess. I am also having trouble finding an IM. I have asked a couple of non-family members but they aren't comfortable doing it and I understand. I may have to use a family member for now and switch it in the future when I find the right person. I am thinking of asking his sister, he will love that.

Plan B day is fast approaching. It's exactly one week from today. (But who is counting) That is the day my parents arrive and they will be here for a couple of weeks. My mom will stay longer if I need her to.

Speaking of mom. WH said I didn't want him here when they get here. What I said was "I'm sure you won't want to be here when they get here." I didn't correct that today. What is he thinking? (I know) I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks if he is here they will just talk about things like always. My dad wants to kill him! So back to mom, what do you think about me bringing the subject up. Correct the misunderstanding of what I said. Then say "If you want to talk to mom I am sure she will talk to you." If he says yes, game on! I will give my mom some advice on what his tactics are (avoiding blame shifting) and let her loose.

Any time he tries to say, "You told me to..." just shrug, smile, and say, "It's your choice."

Also, I would change the pin on your card TODAY. I think you can do that over the phone, but do whatever you have to do to protect that important resource.

I am very bad, but I would (after changing the pin to something he cannot possibly guess), leave it in a very accessible place WITHOUT telling him it's changed. Let him explain to the cashier as he tries over and over and over again.

"Of course I changed the pin, WH. I will do whatever it takes to make sure our babies get the food they need, and that it doesn't get diverted outside the family."

Neak,
I would LOVE to do that. I did change the pin and hid the card. He can't use it anyways (neither can I) because it doesn't reload until the 10th. I will be so dark by then I won't be able to see my own feet.

Now you have me fantasizing about WH ringing up hundreds of dollars of food and having the card rejected. It's making me giggle.

I am still working on my plan B letter. I am having trouble because I don't have an OW name. It is more of a WH dating and HO'ing around. I also don't have 100% proof he is doing coke but all signs point there. I know he has mental & Psychiatric issues. I will try to address those as best as I can.

Still haven't gotten a yes for an IM. I asked SIL and I am waiting to hear back. I know I should try to find a non-family member but I can't find someone who will be neutral. Most people want to rip him a new one right now and have told me just that when I asked them.

Then don't mention a name. Instead of "NC with OW" it will be "NC with any OW's, precautions to demonstrate to me that there will be no more OW's, and continuing treatment for your substance abuse issues, and complete honesty regarding all of the above".

Thanks Neak. I was at the pharmacy yesterday and saw a home cocaine test kit. I thought if only I could get him to pee in a cup. I almost bought it anyways. I am not doing WH's laundry so he as been piling it in the corner of the LR. I snooped there a little while ago. I found a hand mirror that had been in our bathroom right by his stuff. I went through his clothes carefully feeling for anything. As I put his clothes back the way there were, I noticed a rolled up ball of aluminum foil. I should have bought the test. So I know I should test it but I think I need a witness to see where it was and what the test shows. While I am testing I should test the razor blade in the bathroom. I think he is doing it in the house in our bathroom. Of course he is also doing it when he isn't here.
Any advice on how to proceed with this would be gratefully appreciated. I don't expect him back here until later tonight but I only have so much time in between kids stuff to test it and figure out what to do. Now I feel very confident I can say treatment for cocaine abuse.

Why not call the police and ask them if you can bring in those items for testing? Tell them you strongly suspect your H is doing cocaine, and why.

It's not your job to protect him from the full consequences of his choices - it is your job to protect your kids and get him out of the house asap till he has a track record of trustworthy, abuse-free behavior.

I think you should test it so you can tell him you did. It won't be unimpeachable to anyone else, but who cares? YOU'LL know without a doubt, and he'll know that you do. It will lend you more mental mettle to move to Plan B, you know?

Thanks to you both. Both ideas sound good. I am not sure what angle to take. I will think about it (not long just a get my head together time) and buy the kit so I have it on hand.

Either way I will let those I exposed to know what I found. Any more advice would be welcomed. I don't want to miss anything that may help.

Marritalbliss, you were right. I thought he was doing cocaine. He behavior was clearly showing that is the case but I had no solid proof. Now I have proof I can actually see and touch. I don't know a lot about cocaine but I do know people use mirrors I'm not sure why, maybe so they can see if they missed some? I am guessing they wrap it in aluminum foil. Again I don't know why, maybe it doesn't stick to it or so they can see it better?
When I confront him there will be the usual denial and he will go further underground correct? So I have to expose the latest info before I confront him right?

I don't know who wants me to move to Plan B more, you or me! Just 5 more days. Less if after I confront him he leaves and doesn't come back or call me.

Also, should I take pictures of where everything is? I am thinking it won't hurt and may help.

Also maybe video tape me testing everything with something on the video that shows the date?

More thoughts and questions.
When I confront WH do I show him what I tested or just tell him I found his drug paraphernalia and tested it?

I know I have to tell the kids what I found. Should I show them the test results? Would it be a good idea or a bad idea test it in front of them after I tell them what I found? I will explain to them that I am showing them what I found not to shame dad but to wake him up. I am pretty sure they know I am doing this out of love. I am trying to get dad to realize he has a problem and needs to seek help.

Hmmm, probably just tell them. Maybe even wait until after you have him leave.

Don't mention any detailed source information to WH. Just tell him you know he is doing drugs and you have proof. He already knows, so you don't have to prove anything to him.

Then do not let yourself be drawn into an argument, and don't give away your sources.

Thanks Neak, you have been a great help.
So I am going to test the items first. I know what I found I just hope there is something on them to show up on a test. Should I put the mirror and razor blade back where they were or take them. If I take them he will know what I tested. I think he forgot about the aluminum foil. I am going to keep that. Should I confront tonight when he comes home or wait until the morning just before he leaves? I am thinking the morning will be safer for me. Maybe walk out at the same time he does like I am heading out also. Confront him and leave in my car. I don't want to be in the house alone with him just in case he goes off.

LOL! Cocaine Use 101:
Cocaine comes in flaky chunks and is cut up/shaved with a razor blade into a fine powder. Users prefer to cut it on a mirror because, unlike plates or glass cutting boards, mirrors are smaller and more easily handled, and because you can run a razor against the glass of a mirror and not cut into it like some plates and cutting boards.

Some other signs of cocaine use:
Paper currency of his that appears to have been rolled up into a straw, where the bill may want to 'curl'. You may find traces of white powder on them. Snobby coke users prefer $20 bills (I have no idea why) but obviously any bill will do.

Coffee stirring spoons from fast-food restaurants. They used to actually make a teensy spoon for coffee, until they realized that people were using them to snort. Now the stirrers are the same size, but the bowl of the spoon is flat. Avid coke users still use them for smaller snorts.

Foil is used to transport coke because the coke won't stick to it like it would a plastic bag. It's also easy for the user to lick the coke residue from foil, as opposed to dregging it out of a plastic bag. You should also look for pieces of paper that appear to have been folded into squares. Users will transport smaller quantities in those.

And NO, I'm not a user. But I had a relative who got into trouble with coke and I got quite a lesson in it before he got clean.

Either put the items back (except it sounds like keeping the foil is fine), or replace them with an identical item if you can.

As with any snooping, you have to cover your tracks or they will just be more careful the next time.

MB...wow, just wow.

I swear on everything I have - Diet Coke is my addiction.

That makes sense.


I have found these over the years. I think there is one in one of his drawers. I knew what it was used for. Again, couldn�t prove it but now I can. I still think he went on binges over the years and some how stopped for a while. This time he has gone too far to stop on his own.


Hey, I got this one right!


Sure Marritalbliss, Is that what you tell yourself to sleep at night?

How about this:
Different drugs affect the body in different ways but the symptoms of addiction are exactly the same regardless of drug-type. As drugs gain more control over the body and mind, and as they exert more control over an individual's life, the journey which begins as substance abuse transforms into drug addiction. Because of their biased perspective, it is all too common for the unfortunate person experiencing this process to deny the enormity of their problem. Whether it is for you or for someone you care for, familiarize yourself with the common signs and symptoms of drug abuse and addiction to determine if a problem exists.

Reading this is just confirmation of what I already know. He is past substance abuse and is an addict.

LOL! How's this for pathetic: when I can't sleep I replay every stroke of my golf game in my head!

Seriously - yes, I would say your H is an addict. Very few people have coffee-stirrers in their drawers.

Golf game? Are you saying even thinking about playing golf puts you to sleep?


Marritalbliss my dealer in coke.... information. I am in between kid pick ups so I am going to go get the tests. Never thought I would say that. I didn't read the box yesterday but I did see it said one time use so I will have to get at least 2. I am assuming it is a urine test so it is more than likely a strip test. I will have to carefully pour water over the mirror with a bowl under it. Same thing with the foil only I will open it over the bowl and put it in. I will try to use as little water as I can. What do you think?

Cocaine Residue Test Kit
Check this one out. You'll get 10 tests, which is way more definitive than you need, but is better than one or two. Plus, you don't have to deal with the water/bowl issue. This is a swab kit.

There are a lot of them online - check into these. Maybe you can get a swab kit wherever you got your original kit.

LGLG: Wow...I stopped by to catch up on folks and got hooked by your story.

Where is your H getting money to do drugs or anything else if he's not working? If he has access to your joint funds, shouldn't you seek a freeze on them so he can't ruin you and your kids financially?

I'm sorry you're going through this....sounds like this has been in his past if he's moved out previously and is being tracked down for payments for a past apartment.

I hope for your sake and your kids you can separate yourselves from his self-destruction. Can't be good for two boys 16 and 18 to be around this kind of male role model.

Thanks, I could have used this information an hour ago.

Well get ready to have a good laugh at LGLG...
I bought the test. I carefully opened the foil in a Ziploc. It was a Hershey kiss wrapper. I still think he is an addict. I am back to where I was with no solid proof.

Ok stop laughing now. I am back to sqauare one sort of. So now I have to somehow test the mirror. The test that I opened and now can't return says to only use urine. I will have to take the mirror and put it some place until I can get a swab test. They had tests for pot, coke, 5 types of drugs and 8(?)types of drugs but all the test were urine tests.

ladylonglegs,
He cashed in stocks. I have no idea how much of that $ is left. I can't keep him from using the bank accounts, he is on them. I just checked this afternoon and in 2 days he has spent $450 at Kmart, $100 and walmart and the big one is $2500 to paypal. We are going to start bouncing stuff soon. I can open my own account and only put a little in at a time. I didn't want to open one because he would be able to bring it up in divorce papers. Of course I can bring up his. I was keeping what I had in cash. He may be doing the same thing for all I know. He needs an intervention or to hit rock bottom. You would think he would be there by now.

I am trying to get us away from him. I informed him my parents are coming in on the 1st. That doesn't mean he won't be here anyways. He is so out there he may make tea and cookies for their arrival. If he is here I will tell my parents they can and should say exactly how they feel.
Thanks for your concern.
LGLG

When I found out my H was cheating, I went immediately to attorney and he told me any joint checking or other accounts I was entitled to 50% of and I could withdraw those funds and open my own separate accounts he couldn't use. Can you do this to preserve some money for you and your kids?

Also, if he's spending like crazy, should you get your name off all joint credit accounts so you won't inherit half the debt should you divorce?

LLL, I don't think she can remove her name from any accounts, but she can set the limits on the accounts to the lowest they will allow her to go.

Maritalbliss,
I am going to call both banks and see what I can do.
Does anyone know how to capture the screen? I want to print out all the account info but I also want to have a back up. I can't cut and paste. It comes out a mess.

Shift PrtScn then Ctrl v on a word page- you can size the image later.

If you use a laptop you should check if you have to use the Fn key first.

I have a Fn key.
This is going to take a while. How do I make the print smaller on my web page? I know I have done it before and it is simple but I forgot!

I did print everything out and hid the copies. I can always go into the bank and get past activities I just want to make sure I have the info on hand just in case someone decides to change the passwords with out telling me.

Here's how I do mine - hopefully your screen is set up the same way:
Look down on the right corner of the screen. Do you see a number? Right now mine says 100%. There is a down arrow next to it. If you click on that arrow it will show different options for your page size.

<Ctrl><-> keys. I believe they work in both IE and Firefox.
You can also go to menu, select <File>, then select <Print>.

ladylonglegs,
I have been a SAHM for almost 18 years. That was our plan, he works and I take care of the kids. Looks like that worked great for him. He is the only one bringing in $ so I have to be careful not to tick him off or he might cut me off financially. If you asked me just a couple of months ago if I thought he would ever do that I would have said no. Now I know he is capable of doing just about anything to protect his dirty secrets and dark lifestyle. Also the stocks he cashed in were in his name only. We have some in both our names so I need to sign off on those. (not much but something) He has a few 401K's from different jobs and they are in his name only. This is why I have to be careful and plan out my moves.

Don't worry about ticking him off. If he cuts off the $, you can file for an emergency support hearing. The judge will make him pay.

You'll be ok overall, just make sure you put enough funds in your own name to last a week or two while you're going through the process.

Neak,
I am going to open my own checking account. I will only put enough in there to cover any checks I write. I have some emergency money left from the safe stash. (I'm sure that is ticking him off already)My parents will help out if I need them too. I don't want to do that unless I absolutely have to. He will only blow through more money. If he asks me where that money is and why I didn't put it in the checking to pay bills I will ask him why doesn't he put the money he got from cashing in the stocks and the 401K rollover into the checking.

And now I have official permission to tick off WH. Thanks Neak!

I don't recall if you have an attorney or if you have a problem affording one, find the reduced fee assistance. In most states earned marital income during the time of a marriage is considered joint property no matter who's name's on it. So, your H cannot claim all income as his alone just because he worked and you stayed home contributing to the family by raising your children and caring for the home. You should be entitled to 50%. You're letting him freely spend your future financial stability by not challenging this legally. You have a lot to lose here.....please seek legal council on this....you really can't afford not to.

ladylonglegs,
I am going to see a lawyer next week while my mom is here. Guess who is footing the bill?
I know I am entitled to 1/2 of everything including retirement. He cashed in the stocks and rolled over the 401K with out my knowledge. I only found out through snooping. I would have found out about the 401K yesterday because the tax document came in. I don't know how long it would have taken to find out about the stocks. I haven't seen anything tax wise for it. I know he has taken some tax stuff and hid it. I found them. The crazy thing is the stuff he hid was for things he hasn't touched. I think HE has no idea how much money he has taken and from where. I have to check everything to make sure it is all there. The last thing I need is the IRS on my back.

Also I put a hold on the mail yesterday. I will be picking it up at the post office on Wednesday.

I bet he thinks it's strange that we have a few days with out any mail.

Crazy weekend.
He does have the condo and has had it for a while. He hasn't closed on it yet so they must be letting him use it until it closes. (long story about how I found out) After I found out my youngest asked me if Daddy went back to his condo townhouse. So he told the kids a day or so ago but didn't mention it to me. This is his MO. He tells one "safe" person that he doesn't have to give answers to and lets the information trickle to everyone else. That way he doesn't have to answer to anyone and gets out of dealing with the mess he is making. Once again using his own kids for his agenda.
We had a few tense conversations over the weekend.
He asked me where the $ I TOOK was. I asked him where the money he got from the stocks, 401K and cash he took out of our accounts was. He said "It's there." I said "Oh, I didn't see it I must have missed it." He called me passive aggressive. Like I didn't see that one coming. Thought of saying "Of course it's there, where is there?" but I would have gotten the same answer. I know, there is no talking to him and I am wasting my breath. My SIL has told me to answer a question with another question. I know I should but it is so crazy and out of character for me it takes some getting used to. Who would have thought being open and honest would be a bad thing. He was so po'ed about the $ he went through all my stuff looking for it. Then he was calm and friendly a few minutes later.

He came in this morning irritated. He asked me for the desk I was using. Then he said "Can I take the TV in the bedroom? I know you don't want me taking that." and he pointed to the BIG TV (that is his and I don't like it.) I said "Actually I was going to suggest you take it, it's yours and I don't want it." He said something about the kids wanting it but realized I wasn't budging on that. He said "I know you don't want me here when you parents get here but I will have to come back with some friends to move the TV" I corrected him on what I actually said (I know stupid me). Then he went on and on about remembering EXACTLY what I said and it's not like I am not known for muddling my words. People have noticed that and commented on that, even the kids. (Once again using the kids to prove his point) This is what he does to me. I know what I said, I tried to made sure the wording was not subject to interpretation. I guess there is no such thing in dealing with him. He was also hinting in his comment that "people" he has talked to now know I am not the person they think I am. I know in time they will figure out the truth.

I also used the "I'm sorry you feel that way" line and it ticked him off. He chuckled (mean chuckle) and mumbled something to the effect of "that would be something PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE you would say." (He didn't use those words but that is what he was implying)
So should I expect him to get mad when I respond to fog talk and say what I said?

He left a while ago. I got this e-mail from him just a few minutes ago. I think he is still upset with me.

Let me know when you deposit the other 4k into the account.

Also, let me know when would be a good daytime to come get the big tv you want me to get. I opted for the small tv as it would be easier to do because I can carry it myself. Me getting the big tv means you are asking me to rent a truck so I'll incur that cost.

Let me know otherwise.

Ok, first it is $3000 not $4000 and I hope he isn't holding his breath on that one.
How do I word my response on the TV and all his crap. Apparently he isn't planning on renting a truck to get the rest of his stuff. Should I make a list of things he can take and send that to him? (Do it in a nice way)

Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. And please keep it PG. I have a lot of NC17 suggestions running through my head already.

This is how I want to respond.
Dear WH,
Let me know when you deposit the funds you have taken into the account.

I realize you need to rent a moving truck and co-ordinate with your friends to move all of your stuff. Let me know what weekend in February works best for you and I will have someone here to let you in. I have thought about items you can take from here that will be useful for you.
Green sleep sofa. (The kids can use it when they are there)
Living room tables.
Funky chair.
Both spare dressers.
Stereo and Stereo cabinet.
TV in the Florida room.
If you can think of something else let me know.
BS

Sheesh...


Dear Mr. Jack Rear-end,

Let me know when you deposit the funds you have taken into the account.

You are absolutely right. I'll keep the large tv and you have the small tv.

What other items are you requesting to remove from your marital home?


Keep it short and sweet. Put it all on him.

Stop reacting to WS. Start acting on WS

Thanks Clark. He's a keeper isn't he? Why I am letting him go I have no idea...
I WANT him to take the big TV and ALL his crap including the items I have nicely offered to him that I also don't want. He wants me to keep the TV because it is inconvenient and will cost him money and time to move it. He wants the small TV because he has either bought or is going to buy a nice one for his place and use the small one for his room. BTW the small one he wants is the very nice flat screen from the bedroom (the nicest and newest one we own) not the 3 older ones we have in the Florida room. Only the best for him!

He has to rent a truck anyways to get all his crap out of here. I'm sure he is thinking he can leave his crap here and start over. (this is not a storage facility) Him taking all his stuff is not just about getting it out of here, it is about him dealing with his mess and not leaving it for someone else to clean up. This is what I want and will demand. If he balks at taking his stuff he will find it in the trash pile.
Can you make all that information into a short e-mail for me?

Thanks, I needed that! When I read the first quote I thought I missed someones post! BTW, can I send the first one?

Psst.... They both convey the same information. The cool thing about trying to recover your marriage is that you can send either one.

YOUR ARE IN CONTROL. YOU ACT. YOU DON'T REACT.

You really need to read Neek's Story.

Can you send me the link or point me in the right direction to find it? I want to read it later after the [censored] stops playing the doting concerned Dad and crawls back into his hole.

Start Here

LGLG, I don't fully understand your sitch, so I am going to ask you some questions before I advise you. Don't do anything just yet. I know that you are going to want to answer this quickly, but I have found that it is better to have a well thought out plan and then act on it.

Okay, so are you entering Plan B on tomorrow as previously stated?

Do you still hold marital recovery as something that you might want?

Have you been Plan Aing?

Have you spoken to an attorney? Do you know what you can do legally?

Do you have everything ready for plan B?

Why are you giving your WH anything from your home when he moves out? Is it something that you need to do? He should only be taking what is HIS and his alone, no marital property.

Thanks, I will read it tonight.

Scotland I don�t fully understand my stitch. I agree with you completely on everything you say on the quote above.

No I am not because I don�t have the plan all together. I want to go dark not weak. I have not found an IM. Everyone I have asked doesn�t want to deal with him including his own sister. He FINALLY agreed to meet with her tonight. Maybe after talking to him she may change her mind.

Yes I want that if he comes out of the fog and does what it takes to make it work. Obviously, if he doesn�t I don�t. Isn�t plan B for me and if it helps bring him around great if it doesn�t I am at least healing myself?

Yes as best I can. I have been nice and have tried my best not to get sucked in when he gets angry.

I am seeing an attorney this week. My mom is coming in tomorrow night and she is going with me. I have already read up on FL laws and I am prepared for the worst. Alimony and child support are directly tied into his income. He isn�t working. I do have a copy of a job offer he got from the company he is contracting for. The problem is I don�t even know if it�s real. He could have made it himself. Seeing the lawyer will help with my plan and put it into action.

I am only giving him what is his and what I don�t want. There are items I wanted to get rid of a long time ago but he didn�t. He is only going to buy new stuff and spend more money. Maybe I will have a yard sale. The TV he wanted to take is marital property and I want that TV. That is why he is mad. He wants to take the best of everything and leave me with crap.

I had quite a few setbacks this weekend (even car problems) but want to get back on track with a solid plan before going dark.
Advise away, hit me with a few 2x4's if needed. All I want is a solid plan and peace in my life. Peace won't happen until the plan is in place.

Fwiw, I'd let him have to buy what he gets and then have your attny (if it goes to court for anything) ask him how much he spent on his new toys at apartment to show disposable income he's not possibly reporting. You could have them ask him on the stand how he paid for his new toys and where the $ came from.

My xh was self employed and they do stuff like that (lie about income of lack of income). My xh said his company was in trouble, yet he pulled in over 500k, had a lakehouse, a boat, and sportscars (luxury). But he couldn't pay his cs on time.??

Personally he would leave all the best stuff and everything but the clothes on his wayward back and send him off and begin plan B.

Lglg, you have a great perspective and sunny outlook, despite the storm you're weathering

Your post gives me some more things to think about. I had to laugh at this..
Really? They lie?

He has a lot of boxes of paperwork, books manuals and other stuff. I WILL toss it when I can legally do so but I would rather have him do the work and be faced with the huge pile. I was actually thinking of making a pile in the garage with it. This would be for ME. It will also show him how much stuff he has and he will have to make the decision of what to do with it. He leaves it, it gets tossed, not my problem.

Really? Can you tell WH that?

BTW I love your sig....

I would say that you can't actually enter Plan B until all of your WH's things are out of the house and he can no longer come into your house. You don't want him to get a family fix. Whatever he doesn't get before your Plan B needs to be moved out by someone else without WH even seeing your home.

Plan B is about you. I just wanted to know what your intent was before I advised you on anything in case it differed with what you wanted.

The kind of IM you need, does it need to be someone to exchange children? Does it need to be someone to take calls, or could they do it with text messages or emails? The answers to these questions may help open up your options for an IM.

Do you need any more help with your Plan B preparations? Throw stuff out here so we can help you sort it out. You don't need to do this alone and there are many of us out here who have either done Plan B or helped others do it.

I was hoping to have someone to filter e-mails, texts or calls but I think it isn�t going to be that easy with WH. I may need someone local just in case he decides he can pop in.

I would love some help and guidance on plan B. I have been working on the letter but have to post it for some feedback.

I didn�t hear from my SIL after she met with WH. I decided to check my e-mail. This was what she sent.

Tell him to take what ever he wants those things aren't what's important. You will set up a time to be out with your mom and he can make arrangements to pick up the stuff when your Dad is there. You would like to continue a civil /friendly relationship for the well being of the kids. Truce on any nasty comments or accusations because everything will come out in the end. From now on all communications regarding property and financial responsibility will be between HIS lawyer and YOUR lawyer. The paper trail will HAVE to be produced and your wrong about being able to do anything about it. Oh and by the way, my parents are staying indefinitely, so please call before you come over for the kids.

It looks like it didn�t go well.

Did your SIL write this to YOU? Is she telling you that you should let him have whatever he wants from the house? Also, is she talking about nasty comments from you to your WH? You can NOT maintain a "civil/friendly" relationship with your WH, especially during a Plan B. And no one in their right mind would tell you that you need to.

And the stuff about sending things through your lawyers, that's fine, but she isn't one, right?

I am actually angered by this email. What are your feelings about it?

If you were thinking about using this SIL as your IM, I would say, NOPE. Bad choice. You will only get more heartache than necessary. Keep thinking.

You will need to have plans in place in the event that your WH does try to come over after you have entered Plan B. Even if you think that he won't, most do. You need to have a plan in place n just about everything and keep a calm and cool head. See why it is so important for you to fog talk things? You don;t want anything to be changed around on you.

My advice, get your ducks lined up for Plan B, find that IM, stay calm and collected, and breathe.

Scotland,
That was what my SIL said I should say to WH. She is even more ticked off at him now that she finally got to talk to him. I got another e-mail from her saying she asked him a couple of times where he was staying but he avoided the question. Never mentioned the condo or the money. He talked about upcoming job interviews and small talk. When she finally had enough she told him basically what she told me to tell him but without the lawyer part.

I will post more in the AM. Our little one is sick and I am just getting her settled in and I am beat.
Thanks for being there for me.

I went to bed and before I fell asleep, I realized that I may have been wrong about that email. I am glad you corrected me.

There will be more people telling you to say differing things and most of the people who don't know MB will tell you what they think would be best for you. I stay that you need to stick to your plan and get advice from the vets on what to do and say.

That is what is great about my support system (including inlaws). They want to help and give me advice but they know I am getting help from MB and they support what I am doing and plan on doing. I hear a lot of "You know what is best. You are doing so well staying calm and true to yourself. And my favorite is "You're back!" I had become a shell of myself over the years with out realizing it. Now my head is clear, I am strong and I am moving forward. If WH wants to move in that direction with me, great. If he doesn't I am not going back to get him.

I went to bed after I posted. My DD was in my bed trying to go back to sleep. When she came in earlier she felt a little warm but not warm enough for me to be concerned. She couldn't sleep, she was restless. I felt her head 1/2 hour later and she was hot. She had a 103 temp! I got her medicine. It took about an hour for her to cool down enough to sleep. She was very upset, talking about death (her, me and WH) Then she brought up WH leaving. I have told her a few times that dad decided he didn't want to be with mommy anymore. He doesn't think it will work and it is best for him to leave. Apparently she is confused because Dad told her it was my decision and I asked him to leave. How do I handle this? I don't want to confuse her but I also don't want to get her stuck in the middle of his BS mess. I did get her calmed down and she finally fell asleep around 2:30. I fell asleep around 3 and got up at 6. I am beat but I have to get things done before mom and dad get here.

Good news is she seems much better this morning and her temp is down to 99.7. I am keeping her home with me today. As an added bonus that means I won't be alone with WH and his mood swings.

Here is what I am thinking of sending to WH. Note I do not even mention the $.

Let me know what weekend in February works best for you and I will make sure someone is here and the house is available for you to move all of your stuff. While you have the truck anyways you can take the big TV. That way you only have to rent the truck and have your friends help one time. Why don't you take one of the 3 TV's in the Florida room? That way you will have one and when you get your big TV you can move the smaller one into your bedroom.

I am still in plan A but I need to use a little stick. Thoughts?

I'm starting to wonder if the reason he doesn't want to take the big TV is just in case he changes his mind or has already planned to come back at one point. Him taking the big TV is more of a reality check than a possession I don't want. It isn't a trigger for me but an annoying constant reminder of WH.

@LGLG - Quite trying to convince your WS.


You are not giving him a chance to learn POJA. Giving him reasons why he should take the big TV, is not your job. You also are not giving yourself a chance to be Open and Honest. You feel that if he takes the other TV then he is taking advantage of you. So if any negotiation that may occur, he will be trying to make offers to you from a false position. So he will not be able to offer anything to satisfy your position. This can turn out frustrating for you. Another thing is that he may know what your position is and feel manipulated by you.

Gotcha, I still have a lot to learn. In a nut shell I am too concerned about him screwing me over and I am not being honest about how I feel.
I want the TV in the bedroom.
I want to discuss and come to a POJA on any items he wants to take that are not his.
I want him to get his stuff out of here.
I want to live in my home in peace.
I want him to respect me and my home. He has his own home. He is a visitor here. He needs to call and make sure his is welcome to come visit. He needs to give me the house key and use the doorbell.
I'm sure there is more but that is the jest of it. Of course the part about him coming here at all will change when I go into plan B.

He filed. I didn't get the official paperwork but got an advertisement from another lawyer with the case number.

@LGLG -

bwahhahhaaa!!!!! You got him reacting to you.

This means he filed a few days ago ('prolly Firday). After the petition is entered by the court, you may get many, many offers from other attorneys to represent you.

I lived through this cr@p. In my situation, we have decided to struggle through, but the petition was "on record" for 90 days until it expires. Those letters, hurt.

At first I thought they were like "divorce ambulance" chasers, but after reading them (and boy, did I), I found the info interesting...
AND
I learned how the Attorneys have way, way different attitudes about divorce. Crutial to taking your first steps.

sidnote.
You are going to have to be served, once that is official, you will have a timeline to respond to petition.

I am sorry, I read a lot of threads, do you have counsel?

Really? Is that what it was? I didn't think of it that way. Now I am curious. Make my day and tell me your thoughts.

It was filed on the 26th so he saw a lawyer before that. I guess for once he wasn�t lying when he told me it was in process.

I haven�t read up on your stitch, what do you mean by struggle through?
Actually the letter didn�t hurt. I did have a jolt when I first saw it but after I opened it and read the info there was a sense of relief.

What did you find interesting?
What do you mean by different attitudes?

He knows that you know about the condo. From what info you have passed onto us, it is not secured into his possession (bank loan). He knows that you know about the marital assets that he has taken and hidden.

I believe that he is now try to deflect you from stopping the securing of the condo.

You need to see an atty. I believe that an attorney can have those assets locked down such that neither of you can access them except for the maintenance of the marital home (mortgage, utilities, and upkeep) or medical, until a division of assets is decided by the courts. See an attorney.

Did WS fill out bank loan stating he was married or separated. Wouldn't bank like to see those D papers?

If he buys a condo while still married that asset is yours also. But in today's real estate market is that really a good investment.

Not legal advice. See an attorney about your rights and what actions you want to take

I know I am going to be served. Getting the letter today was good for me. Now I know it will be coming any time now and I know what to look for.
I got a referral for a lawyer a friend of a friend used. She had a similar situation regarding the financial issues. I called the lawyer and talked to the secretary for a while. The first available appointment isn�t until Monday. I told her about my stitch and asked her if it will hurt me by waiting that long. She said not really. Once he filed there is a standing hold on all finances. I could see someone sooner but it wouldn�t be someone highly recommended for my situation. She told me I have 20 days to respond after I receive the paperwork. If I can dodge them for a day or so that would be good. She told me it is ok to sign for it and not to worry about it. She also told me to call back if I get the name of the other lawyer. Here�s the juicy part� She asked for a number to reach me and I gave her the home number. She asked if it was ok to call and I said I have nothing to hide, if he answers just ask for me. Later on she mentioned us still living together and I told her about the condo. I told her he was in the process of buying it or may have already closed. He didn�t consult me on the purchase. There was a pause and she said �So, you didn�t sign anything regarding the purchase?� I told her I didn�t. She said �Well, that is going to be an issue for him because you need to sign off on it. Either he didn�t disclose he was married or there may be a forgery issue.� DOH! LGLG is chopping at the bit!

Thanks Clark_kent,
I am feeling better and more confident by the minute. I think WH has made things worse for himself. I don't think he told his lawyer the truth about the condo. I wouldn't be surprised if he asks me at the last minute to sign. I will tell him my lawyer has advised me not to sign anything.

(((((LGLG)))))

Sorry that you found out about the filing in this way, that has to hurt.

What you need to tell your daughter is the truth, since your WH isn't. I forget, how old is she?

Now, about the letter about his things. You need to keep a lot of the things out of there about what he can do with the things in HIS place. He could sell them, and it would be of no concern to you. HE isn't your problem anymore. He has chosen to be on his own, let him be on his own.

I would write a letter more like this,


Speak to an attorney and find out what you will legally be allowed to do with anything that he doesn't remove on that day. I packed all of my WHs belongings and that is ALL that he got. A couple of months later, he wrote to the IMs and was expecting to get the computer. NOPE. He got HIS personal items and that is IT. Anything else can go through lawyers(although neither of us have filed yet).

Take care of that munchkin.

BTW, could the condo be in someone else's name? Could he have given someone else the down payment?

UPDATE:
He did close on the condo. I checked the public records and it is listed as the 27th. I don't know if that is when it was recorded or when he closed.
I am trying to figure out what I am looking at.
There are 3 banks involved.
WELLS FARGO BANK NA ATTY IN FACT
HWBC BANK USA NA TR
HOME EQUITY LOAN TRUST SERIES AVE 2006 AF1

I think he closed before he filed. Either way he is in big trouble because I didn't sign anything.

Depends on where you're reading the names of those. Are they the Grantors on the deed? It sounds like he bought a foreclosed condo.

See if you can find another doc in his name that was filed at the same time. That should be his mortgage.

Well, now that's an interesting point. I think your state is a dower state and may require you to 'sign off' on the condo, releasing your interest in the mortgage. I would check with an attorney about that.

Unless he paid cash and didn't take out a mortgage...do you think that would be possible?

He did buy a foreclosed condo. The paperwork I found was with wells fargo.

I was told by the lawyer's secretary that I made the appointment with that it is a law that I have to sign off on it. (of course that was off the record because she can't give me legal advice.)
all three of the banks are pointing to him. Then the one that says TR at the end is him pointing back. I think that is the bank that owned it.

Reading it again this is what I think.

HWBC BANK USA NA TR
HOME EQUITY LOAN TRUST SERIES AVE 2006 AF1
are the banks that owned it.
The thing that makes me nervous is this.

WELLS FARGO BANK NA ATTY IN FACT
Att in fact sounds like he just used the mortgage company to close and he did pay cash.

The more I think about it the more I believe he did buy it outright before he filed. I hope the lawyer can get a copy of all transactions in his checking account to show he took funds from our banks, stocks and 401K to pay for it. It may not matter anyways because if he owns it outright it is still 1/2 mine.

All of the banks you've listed sound like the typical 'owner' of the property. They're legally required to list their ownership that way on the deed.

I suspect he paid cash, because I think your state is a dower state. If that's the case, the lender would have wanted you to sign off on the mortgage.

And, of course, you know you have a legal right to a portion of the condo ownership because of those same dower rights.

Yes I own 1/2 of it. I was thinking about it and trying to figure out how he could justify his actions and it hit me. A few months back when he said he was done and became single, we had a conversation. He said "I was thinking and instead of renting I should buy. There are a lot of good deals out there. It would be a great investment for the kids future." I said something to the effect of we should discuss this before he signs anything or does anything that involves our finances. I guess he took that as we discussed it so I knew about it all along and I am a liar.

I need advice please!
I was going to send my "This is not your home so stop popping in and btw get your crap out of here" speach to WH last night. I wasn't quick enough. He comes here around 8pm and makes himself at home. Hanging with the kids, getting on his laptop. I knew he wasn't planning on leaving. I got him alone and told him how I feel, told him he has his own home. He told me this is his home where his kids and his stuff is and he has every right to be here. A few exchanges later he left the room. I didn't know what to do at that point. I thought about calling the police but not knowing his mental state I don't know what would happen. He has checked everything out to make sure he does everything legally.
Suggestions please.

I don't know how it works where you live, but here, I wouldn't be able to call the police on my WH because he has ALL legal right to live here too.

What I would suggest is that you keep Plan Aing, which includes making your plans for Plan B. As soon as you are ready for Plan B, pack up his things. Get him a message letting him know that you need to talk. Tell him that this is hurting you too much and you need for him to go. He may not go, and you will need to know what you can do legally, if it comes to that.

You are still in Plan A, and the worst part about Plan A, is that you have to deal with a cake-eating wayward. It is a very emotionally taxing time and that is why DrH suggests a short Plan A for women. Take care hun.

You, my dear, need a very, very precise, determined attorney.

Your WW is so very flagrent and abusive (and fast and loose with YOUR money at this point). He obviously seems to use you as a doormat at this point.

He is going to have 1000 excuses and reasons (for the future of the kids) and these is going to be no reasoning with him.

You can not plan A yourself into financial ruin.

Have you done a net search about attourneys that serve your county?

Then tell him you own 1/2 of his new "forclosed condo" and YOU have every right to be there. request a key. OR a buyout of 1/2 the ammount paid for the condo.
Fog talk his hinney at every point. Get some legal help before you are broke.

This is the problem. Maritalblis stated she was concerned about my love bank depleting and at the time it was pretty low. I am getting to the point that it may become empty very soon.

He can legally come and go as he pleases. I know he has checked into the laws and has carefully planned this out for months.

Then what is YOUR plan? Will you be moving out temporarily until he decides to leave? Of course, you will take the kids with you. I am NOT suggesting this as your plan, I am just throwing out options. Brainstorming this sitch to figure out what is the best option for YOU and your kids. When you brainstorm, you start looking at ALL of your options and you can figure out a PLAN.

Thanks Scotland.
He will call my bluff but that is his problem. I think I will rent a hotel for a few days until my parents get here. (they aren't coming until the 15th) We need a fun time after all the drama that is going on.

Throw more ideas please! OH! I could take the kids to his sister's house!

Scotland,
You have opened a sick can of worms. WH is all about the kids. He doesn't want me. I should pack a bag, tell him I am going on a vacation and tell him to call me when he has moved out. He will have to do everything I do for the kids. LGLG likes this plan.

barbiecat,
This is what I am dealing with. I have an attorney but my appointment isn't until Monday. It is a REALLY good attorney who has handled many cases like mine and has been highly successful.

I brought this up in our talk last night. I said "How would you feel if I had a key to the condo and came and went as I pleased." He said he was fine with that. So I said "Ok then give me a key." I am still waiting on my key. I think I will ask him for it over and over (nicely though) until it drives him nuts.

Actually, I can hire a lock smith and have him change the locks. It's legally mine right? I think that is just crazy enough to work! This is what I will say to him. "WH, can you make me a copy of the key for the condo today?" If he says no or puts me off I will say "I don't want to incur the cost of a lock smith." Love it,

I just thought of something else. His secret checking account that has only his name on it. That is 1/2 mine too isn't it? I would love to see the statements for it for the last couple of years.

I found this

order of temporary exclusive occupancy.

I looked it up and found this.
Avoiding a hearing can be crucial, since it is typically 30 to 60 days before a decision on the application is reached by the supreme court.
I can't believe there is no legal way to make him leave. He is gone for now but I know he will be back and changing the locks will be a waste of my time.

Don't ask for the keys to the condo. What if he gives them to you?

Say:
Since you are not going to be staying at our other property. How would you feel about us selling it?

I really don't think you should bog down much with interchanges on the condo. Now Plan A is not necessarily all light and fluffy, and if things were at an earlier stage you would need to confront, and confront some more.

However, with D papers filed, WH having done a big illegal naughty, and you about to retain an attorney to fight for you, let her. You have someone else to do the bulldog work on this one so you don't have to.

Now if he brings up the condo, I think it would be fine to say (if you're going to say anything), flirtily and teasingly, "Where's the key to my other property?" Personally, I favor letting it be a big surprise as to just how much trouble he's in with that.

The things you need to most worry about are:

1. Not blowing your Plan A with lovebusters. He's earned them, but you're better than that. Even if you can't bring yourself to be loving (and I hope you can), at least be cheerful and polite. Don't waste all your hard work by letting loose just before you go to Plan B. Staying at a hotel for a couple days is a fine idea, till your parents can get there to back you up.
2. Tell the truth to your daughter. Even if she's as young as 3, she will understand, "Daddy has a girlfriend. It's not ok for married people to have other boyfriends or girlfriends. That's why he's leaving. It's not because of me, and it's not your fault, either. It's Daddy's choice."
3. Find an IM, or even more than one. An MB IM(s) might be able to handle the written message passing, and a backup IM nearby might only need to be available to come to your support if he shows up in person.
4. Meet with your attorney. Of course you were going to do this one anyway. Most urgently, find out what she can do about the condo, and about keeping WH out of the house. That will give you some idea where your thoughts and plans need to go as far as keeping him out for Plan B. Know your legal options.
5. Finish your PBL.

That's plenty to get started with. Keep sailing on, no matter what he does. Be thankful that you have a good attorney who can run interference for you. You can do this.

One more thought, regarding what a prize he is: any WS would behave this way, given the chance. The only thing that stops any WS from running off and buying a love shack outright is not any shred of common decency. It's just a lack of cash. WH isn't special, even in this. He's just like all the rest.

Neak, I don�t know if I love you or a hate you lol!
It was suggested that I read your stitch. I started reading it a little while ago and it�s like a great book you can�t put down! The only reason I stopped reading it was to come check my thread but I am going back to my novel after I post.


I hear you.

I was thinking about this myself. What do you think about me being nice and friendly and saying something like this.
WH, I am sorry I was short with you last night. I still feel you are being disrespectful to me by coming and going as you please but I should have expressed my feelings more calmly. Or I could just not say anything at all like you suggest.

I know I have to work on this one. Is that why you made it #1? Any ideas of what I can do will be appreciated.

Here�s the problem. There isn�t any OW that I can point to. He has been actively dating and HO�ing around. I don�t know if there is anyone current. He spends most of his time here or at his condo. He may be bringing or has brought someone one there but he knows I know where the condo is and I can see it from a few places without actually driving to it. I haven�t sat down with the kids and discussed the current situation. They know he took money and he bought the condo but I have to make it clear to them that he did it behind my back. I also have to let them know he filed last week. I just found that out yesterday.

I forgot to mention this but my sister agreed to do it. I explained the whole concept and she said she will do it and stay neutral and calm. Funny thing is she is the one that I would think would be the last one to agree to it.

I have a running list of questions already started.

Every time I am hit with another thing he has done I have a moment of disbelief. Then I remember that he is just like every other lying cheating scum bag. I shouldn�t be surprised at anything he does.

I have gotten numerous complaints. They make me happy.

An apology would definitely be in order, but ONLY about you. "WH, I'm sorry I was short with you last night. I shouldn't have spoken to you that way. Would you like a cup of hot chocolate?" As soon as you bring up what you did, you might as well have not apologized at all, and kept things from getting actively worse. He isn't willing to hear what he's doing wrong.

When you're tempted to lovebust, bite your tongue, get away from there, come on here and vent...do anything you have to do to keep from dumping on him. Remind yourself how hard you've worked, and you don't want to sink to that level.

On the other side of that, try and deliberately meet at least one EN a day, of his top EN's. You can text him with something that you used to appreciate about him, just don't use the words "used to", lol. "Sweetie, all those times you [insert nice thing he used to do], I really appreciated that." Etc.

It will be hard for your sister to IM for you and remain neutral. That doesn't mean she can't do it, but she will have to be very vigilant of her reactions. She will want to return the ire he gives her, and she will want to defend you. She must not! Have her read the IM thread to get a good picture of what she needs to do. If at any point she can't do it any more, it doesn't make her any less of a wonderful, caring person.

It should make you happy and proud. I can�t wait to read it all. And I am trying not to read anything current that you post about yourself so I don�t spoil the ending.
So is that something I should do at some point today if/when he comes here or if it comes up?
I did feel the anger welling last night. I know I had a right to be angry but I think the fact that I was barely functioning from lack of sleep the past few nights my patience was thin as it was. I didn�t get much sleep last night either. I will watch my tongue for any signs of wagging today. My lap top was in the living room and he was in there on his laptop. I don�t feel comfortable coming here to post when he is in the room. I have moved my laptop to the Florida room on the other side of the house.
That�s easier said than done. I can�t remember that far back! I will have to do some thinking and writing and I am sure I will come up with something.

I did explain to her that he may say things she isn�t going to like but she can�t react. I told her she is like a filter. Take in what he sends her, filter out the personal stuff and just pass on the facts regarding the kids, finances and other non personal important stuff to me. I told her she can't tell me what he says because it won't help me and may hurt me instead. She really got the reasoning behind Plan B and how it is about me healing not about him. It made complete sense to her. I know if my sister gets to the point she can�t do it she will tell me right away. I have to look up the IM thread and do a cut/paste into an e-mail for her to print out and read.

An apology sounds good. Don't make it too downcast or "woe is me for I have been bad," just a simple I'm sorry I spoke to you like that, and cheerfully moving on to something else more upbeat.

Once you start thinking about it, you'll remember all kinds of good things about WH before he was WH.

Well, my first chance to do a nice thing and reach out to him turns out to be something I wish I didn't have to tell him.

I got a text from his sister's husband and it wasn't great news. I sent this e-mail to WH.

SISTER was rushed to HOSPTIAL this morning with chest pains and swollen extremities. She had an EKG, MRI and blood work. They are waiting for the results. She is sedated and resting comfortably. They are keeping her overnight. I will let you know if I hear anything else. I am praying for her. I'm sorry WH, I know you two are close. I will be praying for you also.
I am sending you a big hug.
BS
It was from the heart and I do feel for him and his whole family.

I got it, casually say it and move on.


He has been gone a long time really. Something changed in him back in 2003-2004 (man was he mean) Then over the years he would come back but never all the way back. This is by far the worst he has been. That is why I know there is something else wrong, not just him sleeping around. Could be drugs or mental/psychological issues. I just don't know.
I do remember lots of things. Many things off the top of my head (and they usually make me laugh) Who would have thought I would miss him sneaking up behind me and slapping my rear. Or hiding around a corner and waiting for me to walk by so he could pop out and scare me. He was such a proud, responsible man with a very fun loving side. That is what keeps me going. The chance that he may be that again.

Off Topic...
WOW Neak! I am on page 5 and I just read the letter OW sent you. I know at the time it must have been very painful but I was laughing my [censored] off! Check in later, your novel is waiting...

I don't know if WH got my e-mail about his sister.
I got another text from BIL stating she has limited movement in her hands. They are running more tests and they don't know what is wrong yet. He said when she is awake she is in good spirits and joking around with everyone.
I think if I don't hear back from WH by the time I get the next update I will call him. Not that he will actually answer but at least I will be able to leave him a message.

about your SIL.

Don't worry, I think it's pretty hilarious, too. If it was someone else's letter that they posted on here now, I could have a field day with the translation.

LGLG Sorry about your SIL. Is this the same SIL who spoke to your WH a few days ago?

I hope that they figure out what is ailing her so they can help her quickly.

Neak, I have been reading all afternoon. I think the kids feel abandoned! I have read many exchanges between you and OW. I am on page 10 around one year past DD. I have to stop now or I never will and the kids will starve! One thing I noticed while reading your stitch is the person that wrote that seems nothing like you today. I can actually see the transformation as I am reading.
Take care and thanks for the hugs. I am praying for SIL and the whole family.

Scotland. This is the SIL up north that was the first person I told what was going on. This was before I really snooped and found out how bad it was.

SIL that talked to WH lives locally. It is a family with many issues. Most of the siblings have issues with another sibling. All of this IMO has been caused by MIL pitting them against each other starting when they were young. It is really sick. MIL has gotten much better but the damage has been done. I am closer to every one of them and their spouses than any of them are to each other. That is just sad. SIL husband texted ME at the request of SIL. He stated he would text SIL down here and a BIL up there later. WH may be po'ed when he finds out I got a text and he didn't but he will have to deal with that. He hasn't talked to SIL in months.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, I am praying it isn't anything serious and she makes a speedy recovery.

lglg, don't talk to your H about your SIL. I don't want to be cold, but he has a blood family that can call him.

Don't call him.

Maritalbliss, I can always count on you to be a total biiieautiful person with great insight.


I haven't heard any updates, I am hoping no news is good news. When I first heard about it I was thinking stroke or heart attack.

lol MB,
I just re-read your post after I responded and realized I thought you said bloody not blood!

Ok, there is one thing that doesn't sit right with me and is bothering me. (Ok, one in particular at the moment)
The papers were filed last Wednesday and when I told the lawyer's secretary that she found it odd that I haven't been served. I still haven't been served. Any thoughts on why?

Either way, LOL!

I was thinking the SAME thing....

I sent an e-mail to SIL earlier today responding to something she sent me.

Here is what she said:
He assured me during our conversation, that even though he was 'moving on', he was going to take the high road and do 'the right thing'. In his mind, what's right for him is the right thing, apparently.

Here is what I sent:
That is just it. He knows what is right. He knew the right thing was to buy the condo no mater what I thought so he just did it. He knows we should just get a divorce instead of working on the marriage so he filed. He knows the kids need him here so he comes here. This is how his mind works. I'm the one who is not thinking things through so he has to make sure he is the one who is looking out for the kids.

While I was out shopping a little while ago a light bulb started to glow. The more I thought about it the brighter it got. He may not be trying to rob me blind. Weird to think about, I know. He has control issues. He has issues of being right. (actually it is more of a fear of being wrong.) He has always had them to an extent but they have gotten far worse over the past few years. So maybe it wasn't him taking all the money so I wouldn't have it but him taking control and doing things the way he thinks they should be done because, he is always right. Add that fact that he is also selfish and self centered and there you go. One big [censored].

Last night before we had our unproductive talk I knew he was going to stay by the way he was acting. He knew my parents were coming in and I didn't tell him their fight got canceled. I assume he figured it out. He may have been angry that I didn't tell him they weren't coming. He was also angry a couple of weeks ago when I first told him my parents were coming and I said "I'm sure you don't want to be here when they get here." He is adamant that I said I didn't want him here. I didn't but so what if I did. He doesn't want to be around me anyways. Again, a control issue. He left this morning with out a word and hasn't come back. He hasn't contacted me or the kids. Could he actually be hurt because he thinks I don't want him around? Not because he actually cares about me but because he has lost control over how I feel?

There was plenty of growth even just in the time since I compiled my story in one place. If you go back and actually read my early posts on their original threads, the difference is startling.

I'm not that person any more.

Should I continue on with the one I am reading or should I stop and read the one you just posted first?

Definitely finish the one you're on. It's much more concise, and contains quite a bit of info I never thought to post at the time.

The first 5 or so pages contain the main part of the A. The rest is more of a R journal, and having to deal with the OW time and again.

Oh, boy. I think I know the personality type you are talking about.
This could be my H. We are working on the M, but he has done many similar things (names off accounts) to me.

I guess you have to live with one to understand. Nonetheless--

You still need to protect yourself. He is trying (and winning) to run the show, it is deplorable that he is doing everything he thinks he can get away with.

It creates huge resentment. Here is the kicker... YOU are expected to just go along with it.

Is your H an engineer?

Ok good, because I didn't hear back from you and I couldn't wait to finish the book! All done with that one. Today I will read the other one.

barbiecat,
So you know what I am dealing with. I am trying to protect myself. There is a status quo order in place so he can't do anything drastic on the financial front.

He is a IT manager, same thing!

One word.
Boundaries.

Set up a bunch to protect yourself.

Try not to rationalize/think through/analyze his actions, he is doing enough of that for himself.

I beleive my H loves me, really I do. He believes his actions are O.K.
He has done crummy stuff to the marriage, (but so have I)

It would be easier (and make more sense) to glue two eels together than to get a straight story/apology. Pointless.

Keep up with the reading and posting, the advice has all been spot on.

I was waiting for someone to comment on my post last night. A few hours after I posted it I said to myself, someone is going to give you a 2x4 for trying to figure him out. I�m just glad it wasn�t Neak or Scotland, it would have left a mark. Lol!
I know what you are talking about. It can be quite frustrating and I am sure it makes your recovery even more difficult. We both have head strong men that have insecurity issues they don�t want to admit to never mind work on.
This made me laugh!
I know, the support and advice here is amazing and I am so grateful to all the people on MB who have tried to help me.

I never got around to adding a sig but looking at yours it is pretty close.
Me; W 44
Him; H 44
2 boys
2 girls
DS17
DS15
DD14
DD8
Married 20 years in April
13 good ones....the last 7 with times not worth living
You have more years married and I have more kids. I have more rough years but there were good periods in there. This April will be hard for me and I know it. Not only is my Birthday in April but as you can see a big anniversary. We will make it to the 20 year mark but not the way I had hoped. I don�t hold any false hope we will make it to 21.

lol Neak!!!
I clicked on the link to read your thread and I got a great surprise. Did you send her to me?

Neak,
I already clicked on and read Neak's Story
I clicked on I'm not that person any more. and got a much needed visitor.
Finally I clicked on My Blog but I�m not sure where to begin.
Is there another thread I was supposed to read? I tried to find it through your user name but MAN do you post a lot!

I never got a reply from WH about his sister. He didn�t call the kids. He came in just after 10. Apparently he is still mad at me for something he feels I did to him and I am in day 2 of the silent treatment. I wonder where he got that from? At one point we were alone. He tried to walk past me before I could talk to him. I asked him if he got my message. He stopped, turned around and said no. He was itching to get away from me and was very annoyed with me. I told him what was going on with his sister. He mumbled ok as he was already walking away. He didn't seem concerned at all. He may be concerned and upset but he won't share that with me and he won't let it show in front of me. WH was asleep in DD�s room this morning. (at least pretending to be) I left to bring the little ones to school around 8. He was gone when I got home. I'm guessing he will be back late tonight and the silent treatment will continue. How can I plan A when he comes in late, leaves early and my existence is a LB?

One thing I forgot to mention. When I was still in my own fog running around like a nut trying to fix the things he felt were LB�s, I cleaned out the FL room. (This was before I got the I�m done speech) He was complaining about the house not being cleaned. I would clean a room or 2 completely top to bottom. Most of the time he wouldn�t acknowledge that I had done it or I would get a �living room looks good.� Instead he would just complain about another room or another thing I was doing wrong. He complained that he couldn�t find a comfortable place to do his important job search and work. So I spent an entire day cleaning the whole FL room. It was divided into an office and play room for the kids at one time. He never really used the office part and the kids kind of took over. Everything was organized and spotless. THAT he noticed and commented on. In his desk I found a small note I wrote for him a long time ago. I think it was either when he was in WI and we hadn�t moved up there or when he moved back here and we were still in WI. I think it was when we were moving back here. The note said this:
WH,
I love you so much and miss you more than you could ever imagine. I can�t wait to hold you again. I miss those beautiful blue eyes and that warm smile.
Love,
BS
I put the note in the top drawer and forgot about it. Yesterday when I moved my laptop into the FL room I noticed a small piece of paper on the desk right in front of where you would sit. I turned it over and it was the note. Hummm�
I know he did that on purpose to send me some kind of message. I guess he thinks I'm a mind reader!

A Firm Hand On The Tiller

I have been thinking of plan A things to do that don't involve me actually talking to him. I can keep working on making the house clean, tidy and organized. I will have to step it up a notch and make sure all the main rooms are spotless. Not an easy task with 4 kids, 2 extra in the afternoons and more friends who stop by but I can do it.
I need to think of other ideas not related to the actual house. Things that are more personal between the two of us.

lglg, you're going to scrub until your bones show and he'll still find something to complain about. Next thing you know, you'll be varnishing the workbench in the garage and organizing the nuts and bolts according to size and date of purchase. And then he'll find fault with the attic!

It's not the cleanliness of the house that has his panties in a bunch. You know that. So don't knock yourself out sanitizing the mud room.

Stop for a sec. Write down on a piece of paper what your plan is. Because I'm confused - first he was in the house, then he was out. Then he had a condo, then he didnt, then he did. Then you were going to Plan A, then change the locks and Plan B, but you reorganized his office for him. I'm losing track!

How do you see the next, say, TWO weeks proceeding? Do you see a time when you will write the Plan B letter and put it out on the porch with his things?

Sorry - I'm trying to keep up with your sitch but I'm starting to get confused.

Maritalbliss,
You know I can�t properly function and be productive with out a well placed 2x4!

I know he will find fault no matter what I do or how well I do it. Cleaning the house would be something I would be doing for everyone including me. I realize that IF he does come around I won�t know what particular things I did that stuck with him. I think of it like this. My parents did things that they thought would be something I would remember for ever. In talking to them and telling them my most vivid happy memories of childhood they are surprised at what I remember. You never know that something you do now will affect someone else so much they hold on to that memory. I don�t know what is going to stick with him so it would be a waste of time trying to figure it out. I just have to think about what makes (or used to make) him happy and if it is something I would want to do for him then I will do it. I won�t do anything I feel is enabling him or feeding his self absorbed personality. Does this make sense?

I may have not been clear of the office reorganization and cleaning. I did that 4-5 months ago. That is when I found the old note. I put the note in the drawer and it had been in there until some time in the past few days. He must have gone in there for something and found the note. He didn�t take it, put it back or throw it away. I thought it was interesting and it did peak my curiosity but I can�t waste time trying to figure it out.

What I want and what I can do are complicated by WH�s foggish behavior. In regards to the condo, everything I found out about it I did through snooping. He told me nothing including the fact that he actually closed on it. I asked him to leave, he did. My plan was to Plan A him for a while with him outside the house. I felt I needed to do this because I was an LB to him and my LB was draining because of his behavior. He moves himself back in and I can�t do anything about it. Well, I could have called the cops. I could have changed the locks and had the cops called on me. He is a stubborn, pe�od [censored]. Then he moves some of his stuff out but is still coming here. I try to express how I feel about his disrespectful behavior and that does no good. (I know I didn�t do it well) I know there are others out there that may be worse but the man he is now is the most self absorbed person I have ever met.

I do see a time. I have to wait until I can legally keep him from coming and going as he pleases. That is part of my plan. I will be seeing my lawyer on Monday. I still haven�t been served and I am not sure why it is taking so long. If I am not served by Monday I will have to serve him. (Of course I will not do this if the lawyer comes up with any reason it is not in my best interest.)
I am going to plan A as best as possible. Continue with getting everything in order and ready for plan B. Dodge any dog poop thrown my way with a great big smile. Try my very best not to engage in non-productive discussions with WH. Then, when I can legally make him leave I will assess where things are and how much work is left to do. Make sure everything I need to do before dark plan B is done. Then I push the button. As for what needs to be done (before you ask) I have to make sure I have taken care of anything that may be an excuse for him to break plan B. I KNOW he is going to try something with in days but the less he has to work with the better. I have an IM and I am working on 1-2 backups. I want to have an IM team in place. I will let everyone involved know what I expect including our children. They will be the ones he tries to get info to be through.

I have been thinking about all the obstacles I will have to deal with in plan B. Location being a big one. OUR condo is only 1.4 miles away so seeing each other by chance is going to happen. Seeing him because he purposely wanted to will also happen. Our home is on a small cul-de-sac located off a somewhat busy road that connects 2 major roads. He will be driving down that road often and will be able to see the house and what is going on here. Then there are the kids activities such as track, softball, baseball, chorus concerts and plays. All of these are things I normally take care of and attend. He hardly ever attended them in the past but I am sure now he will be attending most of them. This is my biggest concern. I can handle everything else but I want to attend these things. How do I do that and remain dark if he just shows up? I know I will have to be the one who leaves and that sucks. I will explain to the kids what I am doing and why. That way if he does try to approach me or just show up at the house they know if I walk away why I am doing it. I would love to be able to say he wouldn't do something stupid in front of the kids but I know I can't. I just hope he doesn't.

I know he will send a snow storm of e-mails to the IM in the beginning. I had an idea that I wanted to run by you all. What if I set up an e-mail address specifically for the IM's. I will give them the address and password. Then they can check it more frequently and if one is working or isn't available a day or 2 the other one can check it. If he doesn't get a response for a while he is more likely to try and contact me directly. I will tell them they shouldn't jump and respond to several e-mails in a day but use their best judgment on whether something is important or just BS.

In regards to my last post I just remembered a VERY important thing I need to have done when my parents get here. Our car died many months ago. We tried to sell it for parts with no luck. We had to push it in the garage when we had the roof replaced. It is still in there. I plan on having a "push the car out of the garage and off to the side in the driveway" party. Followed by a "take everything out of the garage, sort, throw out and reorganize the garage" party. Then I will have my stuff organized. WH's stuff together for removal by him or trash and I can park my SUV in the garage so he can't see it when he drives by.

@LGLG -

I want to say this as kindly as possible, but you are in Plan Whatever.

You have the ability to recover your marriage.

Where is your center?

You are constantly reacting to your WS. STOP! Your WS is not the enemy.

I ask you again what plan are you in?

I agree with Clark.

#1. Stop trying to guess what he will do! Pontification and Bloviation! (bug IM's... drive by house...)
< I have that bottle of Elmers and 2 eels for you.>

Right now, you are not in the drivers seat. To turn this bus around you are going to have to take the wheel. (and not cover your eyes.)

Open them up. What really do you want to do? I think you are learning the basics about what you need to do
#1. STOP reacting like chicken little -- that used to be my job, it is thankless.

He is counting on you for these hysterics. He will play you like a fiddle and leave you. (Saying to everyone; "See!?! My crazy BS!")

Change it up by going 180 on his bum. The advice has been great that you have been given here, but you have got to tell us what you want.

Clark I don�t want to be in plan whatever. You don't have to be nice about it. Start yelling at me and say. Stop doing xyz, Do abc! I do want to recover my marriage. I think maybe there is something subconcious I am saying to myself that makes me think that it can�t possibly happen. WH will never change. I have to work on squishing that voice and believe in myself.

I�m not sure what you mean by this. Where I am happiest at and most comfortable?

I know, I am being my own worst enemy right now. See response above. I think because I have reacted to him for so long it is almost like I have to reprogram myself.

A weak, not so organized plan A that needs an adrenaline shot.

I will get back to replying to you all 2X4ing me. (I know, I deserve it!)
During the course of the day I have been e-mailing WH back and forth. He sent the first one. Short and steaming with piss-n-vinegar. I responded nicely and added in a little innocent sweetness with something I needed to tell him. There were several back and forth's and he started to soften and is now joking around with me.
So I am turning around the Plan A bus and I am going to drive it right up his A**.
Oh, that's not right. It must be a type O. I meant Adorable heart. I may have more questions and advice because I need to keep this bus driving in the right direction.

BTW, I noticed he went from replying to my e-mails after he made me wait for a while to replying right back.

Barbiecat, now I can�t get that visual out of my head.

I am learning the basics about what to do but I am not there yet obviously. I know I need to stop reacting, I need to learn HOW to stop reacting. I need to reprogram my thought process. There are things he does and will do that I don�t like and have no control over it. I have to stop taking it personally and seeing it as a negative and use it to my advantage. Let him think he is getting the better of me, who cares. I will show him how nice I am and what he is giving up. (No, not let him walk all over me) I will know my plan and goals and do the work to get to them. If I mess up, oh well just keep driving the bus.
Kill him with kindness.
You get more flies with honey than vinegar.

I want to never go back to the way I was emotionally and mentally. That is #1 for me no matter what. I want a marriage that has respect, love, admiration, compassion and affection. I want a marriage where we both feel loved and appreciated for who we are, not what the other wants us to be. I want to work together to help each other with our own personal issues. This will help us to become better people and with that make our relationship stronger. I know there are no guarantees when or if that will ever happen but I won�t ever know if I don�t try my best.

Here is a trick question. Which is the correct answer.

You ask WS to do something for you.

WS Answer 1: FU I don't want to do it.

WS Answer 2: Of course my loving dear.

Which answer do you want? 1 or 2?














It doesn't matter which one. They are both wayward answers, until WS commits to recovery, they are wayward.

While you are in Plan A your response to either answer should be designed to meet WS ENs. Loving, caring, and no LBs.

It doesn't matter the answer, your response is always the same. Of course you will have two different responses. But the response will reflect the love and care you feel for your WS without being a doormat.

What are your WS Top ENs?

I looked at the questions and said neither!
Admiration
Affection
Domestic support
Financial support

Just passing quickly through.

This is my earliest thread here, starting with my very first post.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=118185&Number=1359661#Post1359661

If you click on my name, and "show all user's posts" or something like that, then go to the very very end which contains my earliest posts, you will find several threads. Anything between April 05 and the end of June 05 was during the A.

Oh good another juicy Neak novel!

Someone came home this afternoon and is still here. He was distant at first but I won him over. I did a stellar plan A today if I don't say so myself. I didn't have any moments where I felt any anger toward him. If I did I was ready to pull out my visual of a certain poster holding two eels and trying to superglue them together.
I have my visuals to help me.
Eels & superglue- check
Red cape- check
bus- check
2x4- LOOK OUT!
I don't know if he is staying but I am not staying up to find out. I told DD she had 5 minutes on the computer and then she had to go to bed. I was walking by her room a little later and heard her voice and WH's. He is putting DD in bed and reading to her. He also did other nice things. (Not those nice things.) I will update tomorrow when I'm not tired. I hope I am not catching what the kids have.

LGLG, well I see that some well meaning and well-deserved 2x4s have been given to you.

I want to touch on the IMs email. Please don't make the mistake I did. I not only created the email, but the IMs didn't change the password. Guess what I did? I logged into it a few times. Yep. I broke Plan B. I felt like I HAD to do the IMing when I was too impatient for the IMs to do it and when they had gone on vaca without me knowing. I learned my lesson the hard way and I am here to pass on my "wisdom." So in short, the first thing that IM needs to do when they get the email addy is to CHANGE THE PASSWORD. And, NO TELLING THE IM HOW TO ANSWER. You need to know NOTHING other than what the IM NEEDS to send to you. I would be willing to be your email IM, if you so wished. I am CERTAIN that other MBers would also want to be. Ask the mods to pass on your email addy to me and I will get it all set up, if you so desire.

Now, about finding the posts by a user, what you do is show posts and then click on the tab that says, topics created, go to the last page and work your way back. That's what I do.

WOW!
I logged into face book to see if I had any messages from WH's family that contacts me that way. There was a message from one of WH's friends that I sent an exposure letter to!
BS, I'm so sorry I just logged into my account for the first time in months. I can only hope that someone has stepped up and things are better for you and WH. Please let me know if or how I can help.

I couldn't find a number for him at the time of exposure. A little while ago I did find one but I don't know if it is current. I am going to call it and also respond to his e-mail with my number. I'm thinking with what he just found out he will be checking his messages. I will tell him he can help. I need to tell him the TRUTH, let it sink in because he is going to be in shock and then work together to find out what mutual friends he can contact and tell the truth to. Then have them all confront WH. I think that he has to get them to meet with him and not tell them why. Then tell them in person. If he gives them a heads up that it is about WH and WH has already gotten to them they may warn WH. Thoughts? Advice?

Well, that is a nice way of putting it. I still have the lumps! Lol!

I thought about this too. Then I thought�.

So I guess I thought of this solution before I had to make the e-mail address.

Really? Thank you so much! I would be grateful to have you as one of my e-mail IM�s. You guys know the plan and know just about every WW trick in the book. You could have some fun with WH as a bonus.
Do you mean pass on my e-mail address or the one I will use for Plan B?

Well, I just got off the phone a little while ago with WH's friend JA. We had a long talk. He wasn't as shocked as I thought he would be. He told me he hasn't really talked to WH in a while and they are more acquaintances than friends. I did get some more info on things that happened in the past. JA worked with WH back when he got fired 7 years ago. I told JA that I thought although the job and management were horrible WH got himself fired with his abrasive hard attitude. JA agreed. At one point he said to me, you know WH when he sets his mind to something that is it. I don't want to say he is... (I said "Stubborn?") and JA laughed and said "yea, he is."
So he is willing to help if he can but WH has already cut him out. We talked about who else I could reach out to and he did mention one guy that I thought about but decided not to reach out to. I didn't have his info but JA gave it to me. This guy is a sweetheart to the point of being a pushover sometimes. He is also a salesman so that is an interesting combination. WH doesn't have much respect for the guy. But it wouldn't hurt to contact him. WH's partner in crime V is also friends with this guy and also doesn't have much respect for him. WH and V have a superiority complex that is masking their real feelings. JA and I also talked about V and he feels the same way. The two of them are like "brothers" and it is a very toxic relationship. They enable each other.

JA and I left it at he is going to think about everything and see if he can come up with something he can do or someone he can think of that can help.

So how did your Plan A work last night?

You tell me! Here is the e-mail exchange. I did cut out as much as I could and left important stuff.

Me:Chase has called a couple of times and left prerecorded messages.
CVS left a message about some important prescriptions that have been auto refilled and haven't been picked up. Usually they call with an automated message stating they are ready but there was no message on voice mail. They may have called and either someone answered the call and forgot to forward the message or someone listened to the messages and forgot to say something.
CVS ***-***-****
Also DS2 asked me to ask you if you had the track schedule with coaches number on it.


WH:For Chase, I need the password you set up to login online, and also the code that was just sent to your AT&T cell phone.
I don't have his track schedule - he handed it to me and I looked it over then handed it back to him because he was going to get his report card for me, which I haven't yet seen.


Me:I don't remember setting up a login but maybe I did and forgot. I will check into it now. If I made an account I would have used a usual password and username and logged the information somewhere. Here is the code *****. I will e-mail you back if I find the login info.
I will talk to DS2 about the track schedule. I haven't seen his report card either. After I take an antacid and some aspirin, I will ask him for it and put it on the fridge.
He was not feeling well this morning but seems better now.
BS

WH: You set up the login as 2****. I just need the password so I can get this done


Me: password starts with 9*******
Wells Fargo called and they wouldn't speak with me. I did pay the mortgage and set up the auto pay out of grow so that is all set.
DS2 found the track schedule on the dining room table.
(right after this one I sent)

Me: I forgot to mention I got 3 more texts in a row from chase. Do you need those codes?

WH: No, I need the password for the 2***** account you set up

Me: It was in the e-mail I sent this morning about DS2's track schedule.
9*******

No response on that one. I�m sure he checked to prove me wrong and found out I wasn�t.
Then I sent this one. These are things I needed to talk about in a non-threatening way. I know he changed the password for oldchecking and has the atm cards and he knows it too. I can�t call him on that but I can try to work around it. I also got some LB deposits for working on the budget, cutting the budget etc. His EN�s for financial and domestic support. Oh, and admiration too by asking for his help because he is so smart. (I knew what program to use)

Me: I couldn't log into oldchecking for some reason so I had to reset the password.
I want to keep a really close eye on that account so I need to check it a couple of times a day. The funds are low and some auto pay items may come through. I am double checking to make sure I didn't miss an auto pay and also still working on a realistic budget using the numbers on the account and trying to figure out how we can cut costs.
I didn't see the cards and I haven't found them so they may have gotten lost in the mail. They have expired. I may have to request new ones. I also have to make sure I haven't missed anyone who uses them for auto pay because they are no longer valid.
I am also working on putting together a detailed registrar for the new checking account. I want to add more information than the usual Walmart -$100. something like walmart- 35 clothing 40 food 25 health and beauty. I have been keeping receipts and writing details on the back that I might need. It will take a while to get it up and running but once I have a system in place it should be much easier and in the long run help make things run smoother. Can you think of a program that would work best for this? It doesn't have to do the math for me. I am more interested in detailing actual items and cost. If it can do both, great.
Thanks,
BS

WH: Microsoft Excel is perfect for what you are talking about. And it will autosum the numbers for you

Me: Cool, thanks!
I have been meaning to get more proficient in excel. No time like the present. I'm sure I will let a few *%$# words out at first but after a while I will get the hang of it.

WH: I have used excel for almost 20 years, and I still let *%$# words out

Me: Oh great, something to look forward to. When I am in my 60's I'll still be *%$# at my screen. Of course by then there will be lots of advances in technology so who knows what I will be *%$# at.

No reply back but he showed up here less than an hour later.
When he gets here he isn�t angry but there was a uneasy feeling. I just went about my business and when I had something to talk to him about I did. There was some joking around. He did some helping out. The door bell didn�t ring so he tried to fix it. He told me about it. He talked to me about the chase auto loan being on auto pay and it was all set. Things like that and kid stuff. We have 1 kid that I watch before and after school. I was also watching the girl that I take to and from school while her mom was at the Dr.�s. DD1 also had a friend over so it was a fun lively home. I was picking up around here and realized I hadn�t planned dinner. I decided to throw together some quiches for dinner. When they were done I asked WH if he would like some. He was caught a little off guard and said �yes, what kind did you make.� I told him sausage & meatball and sausage, meatball, onion, pepper & mushroom. He smirked and said �meatball? What did you do just go threw the fridge and toss things in?� We laughed and I said �Well, I tried to work with what I had here. People put hamburger in their omelets don�t they?� Later on I mentioned that I totally forgot the cheese. WH said it didn�t matter it still tastes really good. I said thank you with a smile and moved on to other light subjects. I was getting ready to bring DD1 to softball practice when WH asked me if I was staying with DD1 or coming back for a bit. I told him I should be coming back. He asked if I could pick up cough medicine for DS2. I said I had planned on getting some at one point because I checked all the bathrooms and didn�t find any. He laughed and said �I already checked the MB and was just getting ready to check the other 2 so I guess I shouldn�t bother.� We have a laugh. I come back with the medicine and some other groceries and put them inside the front door as I unload them from the car. The next thing I know WH has already brought them in the kitchen and is � done putting them away. We talk for a bit then he hangs out with the kids in the LR. I clean up the kitchen but leave the quiche out on the stove. I go get DD1 and when I get back he had already put the quiche away and (gasp!) cleaned the stove top. I wasn�t feeling well and this is the point I posted last night.

After I posted I came out to the kitchen and WH was out there. I had Theraflu in hand. WH said I should take something like what I gave the kids. He checked the Theraflu ingrediance to make sure I didn�t overdose by taking something else. (maybe he doesn�t want to kill me) Then he gave me a hug and said he was taking off now because I need to get a good night sleep. He said he hopes I feel better and then he left. Haven�t heard from or seen him since.
Thoughts?

Sorry it is so long. I wanted to make sure you saw the actual exchanges in order just in case I said or did something that wasn't meant to be an LB but could be one. I am learning!

Be absolutely cautious here, LGLG. Understand that while what you are doing is to fight for your marriage, you are also talking about your problems with a member of the opposite sex.

I'm not making any assumptions about you, but this is like handling a hot rock. Limited, focused interactions - don't get tied up!

How did you meet the above.

Did you meet any of the 4 Intimate Needs?

Thanks HHH,
I know to be extra careful when talking to anyone of the opposite sex. There was no personal stuff said that could lead down any road I shouldn't walk down. We stuck to the facts on what WH has been doing. He did say something about me focusing and protecting me and the kids because I have no control over what WH will do. He also made a comment about how he only goes on FB every month or so to catch up with family. He has known many friends who got caught up on FB and did things they shouldn't do. I said "Like WH." We talked a little about the dangers of FB and other sites like that and boundaries. He also brought up what he went through in his first marriage. He was the BS. He said it was really hard on the kids and told me to watch them for any signs of stress or rebellious behavior. I asked about his wife and told him to tell her I said "Hi". (she is a really nice person and I like her a lot) He suggested I give her a call some time when things settle and meet her for coffee.

Admiration
He likes to feel needed and likes it when I ask him for help with something he is knowledgeable about. That is why I asked his advice on setting up a very detailed checking registrar that will keep track of what we spend and what we spend it on. He also took the initiative on the doorbell and I didn�t interfere or try to fix it myself. I thanked him for trying to figure out what was wrong with it. I thanked him for putting the groceries away and for putting DD to bed because I was sick. (there may be more I am forgetting)
Affection
This is a tough one right now because he didn�t want me near him. The hug last night shows me he is open to it again so I can start touching his arm when I talk to him or ask him if he would like a back rub if that opportunity comes up. Verbally I have been affectionate. I have to step it up a notch with some innocent flirting.
Domestic support
Taking care of the house and the kids. Making sure they are happy and have what they need. Asking if he needs anything when he is here. Making the home a comfortable place to come to. Not just cleaning but filled with love, laughter and fun. Laughter is a big LB deposit for him. He loves to laugh and make others laugh.
Financial support
I don�t work but I think working to cut spending is financial support.

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Family Commitment
Admiration
(I put these in so I have them on hand to cut and paste when needed to post. Also for a reminder!)

As for the 4 Intimate Needs.
Sexual Fulfillment
Physical Attractiveness
Recreational Companionship
Is the forth Affection or conversation? They both can be intimate needs IMO.

We can�t go there with the first one. I don�t know where he has been.
I have been dressing casual but nice. No sweatpants, sweatshirts or t-shirts.
Nice shirt & jeans. I pull my hair back in a ponytail like WH likes. No make-up like he likes.
I do have a question about this though. He has said many times I don�t need make-up I am beautiful naturally. BUT I have noticed he is physically attracted to high maintenance woman. Maybe he likes me natural or maybe he wants me to stay natural so I don�t attract other men.
Recreational Companionship is another tough one. He doesn�t want to do anything recreational with me. I have to brainstorm on this one.
I have been engaging him in conversation when he wasn�t in a ticked off closed off mood. I just have to keep that up and avoid getting sucked in when he is moody so it doesn�t accelerate.

Well, well...
I haven't got served yet but I did go back onto the county web page and they have updated the file to include WH's lawyer's name. It is a pro-Dad lawyer. Right on her website's main page it says.
Dads Divorce.com connecting fathers with resources.
This should be interesting...
I have added his Attorney's name to the long list of info to give to my lawyer on Monday.

Sexual Fulfillment......one way to meet it without actually having sex is to flash some b@@b when he is looking and say nothing. Wink. (make sure the kids aren't in the room and can see....protect innocent onlookers...lol)
Etc.
Be creative with this.

Wear makeup and be high maintenance sometimes to balance out his actual desire (he might like no makeup but if he is going for women who wear it.....he is torn on his attraction obviously). Cover both basis while still in plan A.

Thanks reading,
How did you know WH is a b@@b man? lol!
Before the last couple of weeks of h$ll. When he "was done with the marriage" but still living here, there were a few times I had innocently been getting dressed when he walked in on me.
I have also had to stretch a few times to reach something and my much thinner belly was exposed. There are also times I need to bend over to get something while I am wearing my form fitting jeans. He tried not to let me know he noticed but.. he noticed. I will step that up with doing it in a way that he knows I am doing it on purpose.

I got a text from WH a little while ago.

DD wants me to take her out for the day tomorrow. Any Issues?

Do you know how hard it was not to send the reply that popped into my head?

I replied.
Sounds great! I won't say anything.

I said I won't say anything because once DD knows something exciting is coming up there is the the Spanish inquisition she puts us through.

Sounds like crabby WH is back today.

BTW is it alright if I do something that may annoy WH but there is no way he would know I did it on purpose? I know this is going to sound silly but one of the things he does that is part of he gets the best mentality is where he parks his car. Well it WAS on the right side and I took that over so when he comes he has to park on the left. When I got home tonight I backed my truck up on the left. It's a silly thing but it made me laugh. I am just going to park where ever I want.

I would advise to do nothing different in parking until Plan B.

Then ALWAYS park in his place.

ITA

If I ALWAYS park in his place I will have to walk 1.4 miles home.

I forgot about something funny that happened yesterday. We have one knife block that has several large knives and 4 steak knives. We also have a small block with 6 steak knives. I didn't see the small one. I looked a bit to see if it got pushed behind the coffee pot. I looked briefly a couple of times before it hit me that he took it. Then I thought, I bet he took the best knife we have. It even has it's own sleeve and spot in the drawer. OF COURSE he took it! I actually laughed.

It doesn't sound funny. Sounds like to me he is LBing. I hope that your not trying to hide your feelings behind a facade to us? WS yes. Us no.

Clark, I actually did find it funny. Is he being a selfish, self centered ba$stard? YES. But I can honestly say sometimes it is laughable and predictable. I really don't care that he took the best knife. I may not have noticed for weeks. Now things like the TV he want's to take I do care about and he isn't taking it period. I don't want to get into a debate over every little thing, I want to make a stand on the big ones. That is my personality. When I make a stand on something those who know me take notice. I know you guys haven't seen that yet but it's in there and when it comes out I think even WH will stand frozen in fear.

wow, 2 texts in one day. I feel so special.
This one was sent just before 11PM.

Didn't get the job with EMC. Now waiting to hear back on two others.

I will send back a sweet one with emotional support.

Sorry honey, I'm sure the right one will come at the right time.
He must have found out some time today and may be drowning his sorrows in a vat of beer.

I noticed this post on his FB wall from this morning.

Scars are souvenirs you'll never lose

Once again no one that posted knew what he was talking about and joked around. Poor WH, he's scared.

Good interaction!

And you'd better hide anything else little you don't want to lose.

Thanks. I really think not having him here is the best way to Plan A him. When he was coming and going as he pleased it was a HUGE LB for me. I got the best nights sleep that I have had in a long time. He is coming some time soon to take DD for the day. She gets to see his new condo for the first time.



Everything that means something to me I don't think would take. He is all about the best material stuff. I will have to really think about things though. Do an inventory of the whole house and hide anything I don't want him to take. Better yet, put it in a storage bin marked "MY STUFF do not take" And put the bin at the foot of my bed.

WH hasn't brought it up in a little while but I know he is going to ask about the $ I am holding on to again. Talking to him about how I need it as an emergency fund and how he has taken tons of money he could put in there is a waste of time. I was thinking of saying something like this.

WH, we aren't going to agree on some financial issues and it would be frustrating for both of us to try. Lets just leave that for our Lawyers to sort out.

Maybe add something positive about making the time we spend together happy/fun. Something like that.
Thoughts?

No, no, no. No "MY STUFF do not take". That is an open invitation to take it. Far better to put it in the garage in a box labeled "lace and doilies".

Shhhh, don't tell, but Neaksis puts stuff she doesn't want her kids to find in boxes marked "figurines", and I put mine in boxes marked "math textbooks". So far, neither one of us has ever had a problem.

You're on the right track in your answer by keeping it light and positive. I would recommend gently asking him when he is putting back the money he took out, and then changing the subject.

lol Neak!
I wasn't actually going to do that. That would be the first box he would look in and he would take stuff he didn't want or need. Hummm... Maybe I will do that and put random stuff in there and see if he takes it.

Anything I find that I don't want him to take I can just box up and drop off at my friends house until after I go into plan B. I can't think of anything right now but I'm sure I will find something when I go through stuff. I have been "cleaning out" on and off for weeks now. I have been wanting to do it for a long time but now I have extra incentive.

I was thinking about the stuff he has taken. I get why posters say all things that are marital should stay here. I think him taking stuff will make that stuff a constant reminder of me. Isn't the point of him taking all his stuff out of here not only because it is his and he has to deal with it but also so there are no reminders of him here? He will think of me every time he uses the knife. I wonder what he will be thinking?

I'm sorry, this talk of disguising stuff has me thinking about one guy during a New York City garbage strike, who to get rid of his garbage, gift-wrapped it and put it in his car...

Thieves got it all the time.

Thanks Neak.
Yesterday DD1's friend came home with her after school. She was spending the night so they could work on a project together. (Still haven't really gotten anywhere with it!) It wasn't too long before I discovered DD's friend H has a HUGE crush on DS2. It looks like he likes her too but it is more her than him. Lots of flirting going on between the 2 of them. It is actually cute to watch.

This morning I got up, had my coffee got some housework done and took a shower. I got dressed in a cute outfit so I would look nice when WH got here. I don't dress nice just for him but for me also. DD and her friend needed fabric paint and some other stuff for their DNA project. (I can't wait to see the finished project) WH had not arrived yet. I left to get gas and get the stuff they needed. As I was heading back WH texted me.
Hi I'm here-DS2 has a 100 temp, gave him Ibuprofen.
I got home 5 minutes later and he was still here. DS2 was laying on the couch in the family room and H was laying down next to him. (Humm..) WH and DD's were in the room also and they were all joking around. WH and I were talking about DS2 being sick. I said to H "I don't want to hear it if you get sick." WH laughed and said "I said the same thing." Later WH came up to me smirking and asked me what was up with them. I told him it has been going on from the moment she got here. We joked around a lot. WH mentioned that DD2 wanted to come back here to hang around with DD1 and her friend after she went with WH to check out the condo and have lunch. DD2 walked in right after he said that. I told DD2 that H was going to spend the night again so she will be here. Just go with Dad and have a good time. (He aint getting off that easy!) I noticed WH checking me out a few times. I had on a nice snug black shirt and nice jeans. I was doing dishes when he came in and said he was taking off. He came right over to give me a hug. I said something to the affect of my hands were dirty so I didn't want to get anything on his shirt. I hugged him with my arm. He rounded up DD2 as I washed and dried my hands and headed to the door. He was already 5 feet out the door and DD2 was just out the door when I called her back for a hug. As I was hugging her WH came back and gave me a big hug and there was a more obvious checking me out. Scan on the "girls" and right down to my belly.

Thanks for the idea!

WH came back here with DD around 7. We joked around and I caught WH checking things out.
I had all our boxes of pictures on the bed. I was going through them looking for pictures of the kids especially ones with WH and the kids. I am putting a scrap book together to give to him. I am going to put some pictures with me in it too. It will be something he can look at and reminisce when I go dark.
He came in when I was going through it and saw a picture of his old car by a couple of piles of pictures. He picked it up and smiled. He picked up one of the envelopes of pictures by the one of his car. He started looking through it and got excited because it was really old friends he hasn't seen in ages. Then I saw a little change in him like it hit him that he doesn't see those people anymore. Little does WH know all the other envelopes with that one are also his pictures. Not just pictures of his friends he misses but ones that he has cut out of his life for a good reason. I won't be there when he goes through them but I wish I was a fly on the wall! He also went through one of the envelopes on top of a container I had not gone through. He was smiling as he went through them. After he left I checked to see what they were. It was pictures of the 2 of us during the construction of our very first home. From sitting on the lot to moving in the first day.
We talked before he left. He gave me a big hug. I said "We're going to church at 10 tomorrow, then to the youth group Superbowl party. I know you are going to a Superbowl party so I guess I will talk to you on Monday." He mumbled something about how I know he likes to go to the 8.. I kind of tuned out the BS because I know he doesn't go to church. Then he was asking all kinds of questions about the youth group party. Finally he said "Is this something I would be aloud to go to?" I said "Sure!" This should be interesting...

I am still laughing about the New York guy. Neaksis said Monk should have tried that.

There are some beautiful Plan A moments going on here. Carry on as you are, while continuing to get ready for Plan B. It's not too early to start thinking about how very high you want to set the bar.

Neak, I still visualize me doing something like that to one of his boxes. I know when he takes them he won't go through them. He will be wondering for weeks where the rancid smell is coming from.
I have been thinking about Plan B and where the bar should be set. I've decided to go with Olympic poll vault. What do you think?

I got this text from WH.

Hi-I am sick this am. Head stuffed. Didn't make it to the 8am mass. I most likely wont stop by the youth group thing.

Poor thing is sick so he will miss the Superbowl party he had planned to go to.
Maybe I will text him back and say
WH, sorry you are so sick. I don't think it's a good idea to go to the party. Do you want to come lay on the couch here to watch the game? You can have home made soup instead of wings.

Actually I need to shorten the text. He knows I don't text well.

Sorry U R sick. Don't think the party is a good idea. Want to lay here and watch the game w/kids? Soup&Meds for game food.

The @#*& can opener? SERIOUSLY?!?!?!
Yes I sent him an e-mail. I told him I needed it this morning and looked everywhere. I asked him if he happened to have taken it. I'm betting he is going to say he took ONE of them. There is only one, the other one broke and I just bought that one not too long ago. I took this opportunity to address the knifes. I asked him to let me know what else he took so I don't find out when I need it and if there is anything else he wants to take please discuss it with me.
ARGH!

Told you it was Love Busting.

You need to get control of this. Nothing leaves the marital home. No TVs. Nothing. Only his clothes.

Do not be a doormat. Do it with Plan A.

Olympic pole vault = good

You do need to confront on the things he is taking. Say nicely, "No marital property leaves the home until the judge says it leaves the home." Don't argue or try to actually stop him, just verbally confront/acknowledge that what he is doing is not ok.

Whatever he takes, even if it's small like a can opener, document it.

I understand Clark_kent, even if I don't care if he takes it don't let him anyways. I am going to have a face to face talk with him the next time he is here.

WH better do some serious training then!

I get it. Saying this will feel weird to me. Not telling him not to take anything, just the wording. Does that make sense?

You decided you wanted to leave. The kids and I were not involved in your decision. We deserve to have our home remain the same way it was when you decided to leave. Other than your personal possessions, everything in this house is part of our home and will remain here.

Is that ok? If he says anything (and you know he will) I won't reply or if I do it will be short. I'm sorry your upset, would you like a cup of tea? I have been dying to use that one but an opportunity hasn't come up. Actually I did use it but it wasn't in the heat of the moment. It was a plan A icebreaker when he was PO'd.

Ok, I will start the list and if I find anything else I will add it to the list.
Good thing I am a better person or I would do something he wouldn't like with the can opener.

In looking around at other posts I saw someone list things to get done before plan B.
1. Separate funds. (I am opening a checking account this week with my mom on it) I have $ hidden in cash.
2. Tax documents (got all docs)
2. Title to the car. He is on the title. Do I have to wait to go to plan B or can I have that in process through my lawyer? I won't even say he would never do that to the kids because he just may.
Thoughts?

The only thing I would change in the way you rephrased that would be "the kids and I deserve". He couldn't give a rat's patootie what you and the kids deserve. I would use a word that carries implications for him, such as "illegal" or something similar.

No reason to wait for Plan B if the car title is the only obstacle. Your attorney can handle that one. Just be careful so he can't successfully sell it out from under you. (The Club was a very good idea.) Even if it gets changed in your favor down the road, that would be terribly inconvenient.

Sounds like you're getting pretty close.

Neak,
Thanks for the advice. Actually because he filed we are in a standing order.
In Florida divorce cases, a standing temporary domestic relations order applies. A standing order is an order permanently in place. Florida's domestic relations order applies to a variety of divorce issues, including child support, property, non-disparagement and physical contact.
I will talk to my lawyer about this today.

My parents are supposed to come in tomorrow night, YA!
As for the car, I will also bring this to the lawyers attention. The ONLY reason he would take it from me would be a vindictive one. He has the brand new car (and hefty car payment). My car is 12 years old, has over 150,000 miles and is in the later stages of life. Poor green monster! I am going to have my Dad look at it when he is here. There are a lot of things wrong with it that are annoying but too expensive to fix. They are mostly electrical and Dad is good at electrical things and although he hasn't done it in many years he has worked on a lot of cars.

Tonight I have to work on Plan B stuff. I have to get the letter finished and post it. I have to pick a day. I have to get all information about plan B to my IM.

Look what I found...

Alimony
While fault is not required to obtain a divorce in Florida, fault is examined when a court determines an alimony award. For example, if one spouse was an abuser or committed adultery, the court is permitted to consider those circumstances when awarding the victim spouse alimony. Additionally, if the spouse seeking alimony committed adultery, the court may decide not to award her alimony at all.

A Florida court examines several other factors in addition to fault. They include: the length of the marriage, the standard of living the spouses enjoyed during the marriage, each spouse's age, each spouse's physical and mental health and each spouse's income or ability to earn an income.
Rehabilitative Alimony
In addition to general alimony, Florida permits courts to award "rehabilitative alimony." Rehabilitative alimony was established in Kristensen v. Kristensen, a 1983 Florida divorce action. The court's opinion stated that rehabilitative alimony could be awarded temporarily in order to allow the financially weaker spouse to "obtain new skills, education and/or other rehabilitation." This means that the alimony will be paid for as long as the receiving spouse needs to be trained in order to reenter the work force or to find sufficient employment to support herself.

I love the first few sentences. Boy is he going to be pissed when that comes out. Also my standard of living through out the marriage up until a few years a go was very nice. I will make sure I mention that to my lawyer. I will also mention that I emotionally and physically supported him through 10 years of school. During those years he got an Associates, Bachelors and then Master degree.

I definitely think I qualify for rehabilitative alimony. I have been a SAHM for almost 18 years.

All the way up to your Masters, baby.

I see my lawyer at 1. Any last minute advice?

Went to see the lawyer. I had to fill out paperwork and the appointment before me was running late. The lawyer had an emergency hearing at 2. She apologized and asked if I could come back at 4 so I can have a full appointment and not be rushed. I said that would be fine. I did talk to her a little and gave her some information. I told her that WH filed almost 2 weeks ago and I haven't been served. She thought that was very strange. I also told her we live in the county just south of her and WH's lawyer is from the county east of us. She did a little "humm.." Then she said lawyers from that county tend to interpret the law as 50/50 equal right down the middle. She said that is the ending point. The judges in the county where we live and he filed understand the laws and follow them. That should work in my favor.

Well, that was depressing. At least I had done some research before hand so I was prepared. The divorce laws in FL suck. Even my lawyer thinks so.

I can not legally make him move any of his stuff or prevent him from taking any of his stuff or even prevent him from entering the home. My lawyer suggested I take anything of sentimental value that I don't want him to have and put it somewhere outside the home. She gave me "Home work". It is documentation of all assets and liabilities. Then there is an 11 page document I have to fill out about the kids called a parenting plan. We also have to go to a mandatory parenting class. she gave me a punch list of all financial documents she needs 2 copies off. I can't stur the pot until I have all of that stuff and getting it together while mom and dad are here works out for me. I told the lawyer about WH's checking and credit card that I do not have access to but know exist. She said even if he paid cash for the condo he had to list his martial status for the deed. Hummm... She also said she can't guarantee anything but she can go after him for liquidation of marital assets before filing. I am ok for now regarding the finances (he can't touch them) but have to think of a new plan to move forward. I can't plan B him if he can just come by anyways. Oh and she said anything he bought after filing for the condo or any big item not for the family is his liability alone not mine. So any charges on his credit card are his.

Throw stuff at me and see what sticks.

quote
I can't plan B him if he can just come by anyways

Yes you can plan B him anyway.

(don't be the one who tells him his 'rights' for a start)

You CAN Plan B him, it's the WAY you do it that will count.

See, in my case, I actually have nothing legally written that says that we are even separated. My WH COULD come here, walk in and even move back in WITH OW if he desired. Legally, he COULD do that, but he hasn't. When I entered Plan B, I packed up his things, put them on the porch, gave him the Plan B letter, asked for his keys, spoke to him for 30 minutes about how I couldn't continue like this anymore, and he left. It wasn't easy, but what could he do? Move in with OW, that's what.

It wasn't something that was easily done, but I was prepared. I had had conversations with my WH before I entered Plan B. I told him what he could expect if we went to court in regards to custody and CS. My addendum to Plan B outlined these things and since I knew what was legal he hasn't argued it, yet.

Not necessarily. In my state it isn't necessary for the Grantee (buyer) to have his marital status on the deed. It's only when they become the Grantor (seller) that marital status is an issue.

Even if you did change the locks against your attorney's advice, as far as I know the worst case scenario would involve him going to the judge and you being ordered to provide a key.

Even without that, there are ways to make it very, very difficult for him to get into the house. For example, you can change the garage door opener, and put some of Pep's famous hotel locks on all the doors. Use sticks or broom handles to block all doors and windows, and leave the main locks still the same.

He might break a door or window to get in, but by the time you, not knowing that it was him, call the police and make a full report, he may decide it's too much trouble.

As a women, living alone, I would feel compelled to install "additional" locks and security measures for my own well being. :-)

I realize I can plan B. I want to stay as dark as possible for as long as possible. I need to figure out how to do it in the most productive way. I won't tell him is rights. He already told me them. I have to somehow get him to believe breaking plan B and coming here uninvited is not in HIS best interest. I have been brain storming on this and have some ideas.

This is what I was thinking about. Ways to Plan B when we both know I have no legal standing to keep him out. Telling the kids what I am doing will help. They will know he isn't supposed to be there and they can remind him if he shows up. I was thinking of doing exactly what you did. Talk to him, make it clear what I want, ask for the keys and give him the letter. Then change the locks that day.

From my understanding here in FL you have to list it on the deed. My lawyer seems to think it is important. It will also give even more proof that he dissolved marital assets with out my knowledge before he filed. The law is either one of us could have spent the money on anything we want. But you can't knowingly defraud your spouse.

I checked the deed for our home. The deed looks like this:

sellers name, a single person
WH and my name, Husband and wife
This is why my lawyer is checking the deed.

The garage door opener will be reprogrammed when my Dad is here. I am also changing the locks on the garage side door and the door in the garage that goes in the house. We don't have keys for them anyways. Then I will change the front door lock after I go into plan B. I need to find ways to make it difficult for him. Calling the cops on me would make him look bad in front of the children so he may think twice about that one. I could put 2 locks on the door and have one of them only locking from the inside. Then I can just lock that and go out through the garage.
BTW my lawyer didn't say I can't change the locks etc. All she said was he has a right to enter the house. I think that she chose her wording carefully on purpose.

Are you suggesting I get a chastity belt?

No, but that isnt' a bad idea.

I just meant if you install deadbolts or put in a really loud alarm system...no one would fault you and how can you possibly remember to tell him as you are sooo busy?

ok, this is what I am thinking of doing.
While my dad is here change all the locks and reprogram the garage door opener. Hide all the keys except one. I will hide that one in the yard somewhere as an emergency in case I lock myself out. Go in and out of the house through the garage. WH will be able to come over but he will have to ring the door bell. If WH demands a key I will tell him I will give him one after he gives me a working key for the condo. (I will have to make sure it works first)
Thoughts?

There are some great new locks on the market that have codes instead of keys.
Each family member gets their own code, and you are able to view their comings and goings online.

Might be useful. If you were compelled to give WH a code, you could disable it later. And you could monitor your DS's (make sure they are home by curfews, etc.)

I saw those lexxxy and I was drooling! They are expensive and won't work with the current door. BUT I could talk to my parents about getting new front doors and locks. I have wanted new doors since we moved here 4 years ago. It is a double door entry so that is why I would have to get 2 instead of one. Maybe Papa and I can do a little price shopping to see how much they would cost. Who knows, maybe we can find a deal on them. He can help me install them while he is still here. Funny thing, when I asked WH to leave a few weeks ago I bought a gallon of exterior paint that was on the clearance rack. I liked the color and it was only $5. I was planning on painting the front doors and shutters with it. Like a fresh new look to the front of the house. Maybe I was meant to wait until I got new doors.

I hear ya, sister, and you're right. What I'm saying is that some attorneys are anal about the maritals on deeds and some are not. If he paid cash for the property then he doesn't have a lender demanding proof of marital status be listed on the deed. Your state may very well accept deeds without a status for the Grantee. My state is the same way.

The best way to be sure is to call your county's auditor's office and ask them if they will record a deed if the Grantee's marital status isn't on it.

I just realized WH had a perfectly good reason not to put me on the deed. He will be single by the time he sells it. Why didn't I realize that before.


I will check into that. There isn't anything I can do right now but it will come in handy if we get to that point. So far no one has come knocking at the door with something for me to sign. I did a search to try and find out if there is a time limit for me to be served. If there is I will be served the day before I bet. That gives me more time to get my ducks in a row. I'm just a busy bee working on my homework. I know what career I don't want to get a degree in, financial auditor!

Yes, but he'll still be married when it comes time to address all of your assets. That condo is part of your marital estate, regardless of whether or not your name is on the deed. I wonder if he thought about that...

No he has that way-foggy-thought-thinking a' goin on.

Oh, he is thinking a lot. The problem is it is wayward thinking. He does realize I own 1/2 the condo but I don't know if he thought about that before he bought it. He was too focused on his narrow minded goals. Typical wayward tunnel vision.
I think his plan was to say he was done and move out with the door still open if he decided to forgive me and give me another chance. I blew that plan out of the water when I asked him to leave. He bought the condo so if he decided to move back we could just rent it out. Every time I do something assertive that does not work for his plans he gets pissed and has a knee jerk reaction. THAT is why he filed. After he filed he didn't know what to do next because he may want to move back in. That is why I haven't been served. He is waiting until the 11th hour. If I get served he will drag that out too. By the time we get to that I will have already gone into plan B. (Yet another monkey wrench in his plans) I believe that will be the true test, what he does after plan B is implemented.

Hope you are patient. He has 90 days from filing the petition to "serve" the paperwork.

I lived through this charming scenario. He believed, I guess that I was going to "straighen up" and "fly right" - he even actually said that he was going to come home, flop the papers down in front of me and " I <Barbiecat> would know that he was serious!"

My opinion of him sank the lowest it had ever been in 24 years, and I still have an uphill battle desiring him as a trustworthy spouse. It has been almost 12 months.

Really sh!tty way to treat your spouse, does a lot of damage, and brings tons of resentment to filter through later. Fogsters and their "plans".

...sigh... I wish I was as forgiving as some of the MB posters, here. It is not in my genetic make up, and I have to work at it every day.

But I want to give you hope that filing and divorcing are two different animals. It does not mean things are over by a long shot.

It's much easier to forgive someone who is fully repentant. Even then it takes time.

To be fully accurate, you can't complete the whole forgiveness/restoration process until they are penitent, but you can begin the process before they are completely sorry for what they've done, and before they have totally defogged.

According to Dr. H, in a nutshell you will almost certainly have to begin R before they are repentant when it's a WW, but it doesn't work nearly so well to begin R with a WH who isn't sorry at all. Even if they're extremely foggy, the WH needs to be farther along in the process to successfully keep going, I guess. It takes WW's much longer to be sorry for what they did.

Weird, huh?

I was wondering what the time frame was and I couldn�t find it anywhere. Is this true for all states? It is not going to change MY plans I was just curious. There is no way in he!l I am going to stay in limbo for 90 days.

I�m sorry you went through such a horrible nightmare. Is he showing remorse and working on the marriage?

Oh, I know this. I think he knows it too. When I went on the county website to look it up the first thing that struck me was the word defendant next to my name and plaintiff next to his. It didn�t bother me but I bet it bothers him. I'm not the one who wanted this, I have done nothing wrong. There it is on the county website for anyone to see.

Well, I was wrong about why it was taking so long to get served. I just got the papers in the regular mail today. I guess he wanted to have my parents here to console me when I get it. I read it over and found parts of it laughable. The cover letter states
WH requested that we refraind from having you personally served with his petition for dissolution of Marriage in order to reduce and embarrassment and to show his desire to resolve this matter amicable by including the Petition with this letter.

Embarrassment for whom?
It also says if they don't receive acceptance by 10 days I will be formally served. I guess I am waiting another 10 days!

Oh, and one of the kids birthday's is wrong.

I have a question.
If I let my lawyer know I received it and let her know I want to wait to be officially served does she have to disclose to WH's lawyer that I did receive it? I want to ask her some questions regarding it but don't want to have it known I did receive it.

I have also been thinking about having a chat with WH. I was going to send him an e-mail today asking him to meet with me somewhere but I was going to post here first. Then I got the mail.
I want to meet with him and have my coming to Jesus talk. Lay everything out on the table. A pre-plan B talk. Any suggestions?

I know of no law that says your attorney has to disclose anything to the other attorney unless required to do so by the court.

I think it would be a good idea to come out with it and let her know that you've been 'served' and you've got questions about it to ask of her. Tell her you're not interested in responding to the papers at this point.

Thanks Maritalbliss,
I called and left a message. Hopefully I will get a call back some time this after noon.
Do you have any advice on what to say and not say when I talk to WH? I know he isn't open to hearing what I have to say or how I feel but that doesn't matter. I just have to say it as calmly and clearly as possible. It may be the last time we have a heart to heart so I am going to make it count. (Well, a heart to WW)

That's a tough one. The reason I say that is because it's very unlikely that you will be able to say anything to him that will strike a chord at this point.

If it were me? I wouldn't say one word to him. You have been served. It would all go through attorneys at this point, and I would cut him loose to hit rock bottom on his own.

I know it is very unlikely that anything I say will get through to him. My reason for talking to him would be for me. It would be for closer so I can move forward. If it does resonate with him in the future and he does a 180 great, if he doesn't I have said my peace and I will know I have done everything I could. He can hit rock bottom on his own. Does that make sense?

Oh, I know you wouldn't do it!

But, do you see where there would be no true closure in sitting down with him and watching him mentally dismiss you?

I would concentrate on a nice, tidy Plan B letter.

I, too, would advise that you not have The Talk.

Be very cheerful and upbeat. If he asks whether you've gotten Anything in the mail, say something deflective (but still honest). "Are you expecting a check? Lol." "I get the mail every now and again. It's SO BUSY right now with my family here." Or something similar.

Then tra la la, on to another subject.

Your PBL is all the warning/appeal he needs. If he doesn't respond to that instantly (and he probably won't), he wouldn't have responded to your talk, either. And a talk at this point may give him enough of a hint of your upcoming Plan B that it may lessen the impact of suddenly going dark.

Just carry on as you are, happy and vibrant, you and the home comfortable and warm to be around, and get ready for Plan B.

Allrighty guys, you know best so I have to just have faith. Plan A now and continue getting my ducks in a row for plan B. Also, because my parents are here I can't plan A as much. What do you suggest I do? My parent HATE him so he won't be coming here for 2 weeks.

I did send him an e-mail about something good regarding one of the kids. I will keep doing that.

I suspect he'll find ways to be in contact with you. 'Happy happy lglg' whenever he calls.

He did ask me if I wanted him to take DD1 to her practice on Thursday. He said he was going to watch her practice. He said if he takes her I would have time to spend time with my parents. (Isn't he thoughtful?) I was thinking of going to her practice to watch and chat with him. I just found out DD2 has her first practice on Thursday also. DD1 is at a different ball field from 7-9 and DD2 is the local field 6:30-8 so we both will be a different ball fields. I will wait until after he replies to my first e-mail before I tell him. I can make my response fun and light hearted. Maybe he will swing by DD1's practice and chat.

Ok, I re-read this and suspect you may know what he is going to do. Am I missing something?

I say that because I suspect he's going to need a little EN dose of home and you.

I wouldn't chat with him, sister. At the ballfields or anywhere else. You're going to convince him that he can have a friendly divorce. It's one thing to Plan A an unsolicited call from him at this point, but don't show him that you choose to have a friendly gab with him.

And...I like to think of the Plan B letter as closure enough.
It lets you speak about your deep love and conditions for a marriage with you all in one.
A Plan B letter allows for no regrets in the future for YOU!

Make the most of each opportunity he gives you for the SHORT time before you go dark; just don't chase him, or be clingy/needy.

His consequences are going to come crashing down soon enough.

So I should be a chased woman?
I know he is going to need EN dose of home and me. He keeps saying it's home and the kids not me. I know better.

I have to finish up my letter and post it. I also have to pick a date. I hear you about MY future. It is my love you, good bye letter. If he decides he made a mistake and agrees to the conditions, great. I will keep moving forward and not wait or look back. Plan B= Plan ME.

If he reaches out to me, Plan A. Otherwise I am just so busy I haven't had time to check in with him. You don't have to worry about me being clingy/needy. Been there, done that and have the scars to prove it. NEVER again no matter what happens.

WH replied to my e-mail with a very friendly text.... Too bad I didn't get it. If he asks I will remind him nicely that I don't like to text, I don't check for texts and I don't always know I have gotten one. E-mail or phone calls work much better for ME.


Yes I know it is an LB and a control tactic on his part. If I texted him he would have replied with an e-mail.

Ok Maritalbliss, you are going to love this one.
Around 9:30 DD2 comes hopping into my room and hands me DS1's cell phone. It was WH. He had talked to all of the kids then asked DD2 to hand the phone to me. He was quite chatty. I plan A'd him but after a while I felt he was getting too much EN's from me. He was talking about his day, his job searching, his concerns about not getting 2 of the jobs and really wanting to find a job. He did start out by asking how my visit with my parents was going. I casually mentioned I was beat and he said me too. Then after a couple of unexpected yawns from me (followed by an I'm sorry about that hon) He said "Well, I think you should head off to bed soon. I'm sure you had a busy day and need a good night sleep." That was the longest phone call I have had with him in months. Gotta cut them short from now on. Don't want him getting to much of the LGLG magic!

Write this on your arm (Really, get a pen)

"There is power in silence." When you feel like communicating with him (about something not necessary- other than kids) Pull up your sleave and read this.

It has stopped many a stupid thing from coming out of my mouth
Tho my H may not agree.

What plan are you in?
A or B?

lol narbiecat.
Why would your H not agree?
I only talk to him about the kids, house related or financial. I try to make it short and sweet.

I am in plan A getting everything ready for plan B. Papa and I are going to go get new locks and reprogram the garage door opener.

I said "it has STOPPED many a stupid thing from coming out of my mouth"...

Many.... but not all.

I find duct tape works pretty well.

I forgot to mention this but the other day I had made a magnet for WH with a picture of the kids. I didn't hand it to him, I just stuck it on the side of his car. He hadn't mentioned it and neither did I. I got a text this morning from him thanking me for it. Oh, I mean I didn't get a text...
I think he was waiting for me to ask him about it and when I didn't he said something.

Learn to text! I never did til my plan A.

If texting is your WH's mode of love talk.....show in plan A you are wlling to do it and do it well.

Then be dark in plan B and should you ever recover the marriage....you can be love texting fools.

It shows a bit of how you are willing to meet his needs if he meets YOURS.

Don't be afraid to chat for as long as you're in Plan A. It was fine to excuse yourself after a while, but don't be scared to meet those needs. He reached out to you, and you were there - FANTASTIC!!!

It's simple, mundane conversations like that which will be one of the things he misses most during Plan B.

I still remember the first time AJ wanted to actually talk to me after the A started. I had so quickly gotten used to him not wanting to talk, that I kept having the urge to cut him off and hang up. It was very uncomfortable, but a part of me (most likely the prompting of the Holy Spirit, since this was long before I found MB), told me this was a good thing and to go with it.

That was one of the milestones of the A, where he began letting me meet some of his EN's, even if it was sometimes grudgingly. Another milestone was when he started being occasionally affectionate again, but that was later on.

So while being cautious of one extreme, of running after him and trying to cram EN's down his throat, also avoid the other extreme of shutting him out before Plan B.

Don't make so much effort that you are exhausted, and don't give up on making an effort, either. Keep balanced. The beauty is there is no one right answer. Even within the boundaries of a textbook Plan A, there is room for individual creativity.

I think you handled that whole thing very well, and would like to see you do more of the same while in Plan A.

I did text back. Funny, he does text but last night he actually talked to me on the phone. I really filled a lot of his ENS. He is concerned (scared) he isn't going to find a job. I reassured him something will come along soon. Told him he is doing great. Made some helpful suggestions that he appreciated. This is the one EN he has that no one else can fill. No friend, family member or OW (if there is one at this point). He is only really emotionally open with me. He would have to make himself openly available to someone else before they could give him the support he craves and I don't think he is trusting enough to do that. This I am sure of and will be a reality check for WH when I go dark.

The only thing I was worried about is him thinking I am making it easy for him to D.

The only reason I had a little hesitation was I thought I shouldn�t meet his EN�s too much. When we talk again I will just go with it.

WH is already there. The problem is he is still going through with the D.

I guess I have been cautious of meeting his needs because he thinks this is how our happy D is going to be. So I will plan A when the opportunity comes up but I won�t call or reach out to him unless I have a very good reason. Not to just chat.

Thanks, that makes me feel good. I want to show him what a wonderful wife, mother and person I really am. I don�t want to give him any impression that I am a pushover. If he does come out of the fog he will have issues with my assertiveness. If I show him the soft side now and later with an added stick it will help.

You will baffle him. Before long, he will ask you if you're ok with the D, or something similar. When that door opens, march right through it, with a smile and maybe a tear.

"I don't want a D. I will not make a D easy for you. I believe in M, and I believe in us. What you are doing is very painful to me, but for now I am choosing to focus on being the best W I can...to show you that I've learned from my mistakes and that I believe we can be happy together again."

How much EN to give is always a delicate dance. Pray for guidance, and follow your instincts. Chat for a while, but for you (not necessarily for everyone), it might work well to be the first to hang up, before he's quite ready. (But after you've met a bunch of EN's.)

You did well at that already, excusing yourself when you were tired. Maybe next time talk a little longer, and still say good-bye first. Maybe once in a while talk shorter. It just depends...being a little unpredictable can be a good thing.

Thanks Neak,
I have been doing some plan A'ing. I haven't been able to post because between my parents being here and the daily kids activities and needs I haven't had much time.

I will try to post an update on communication with WH and (fair warning) a rant about my parents. They love me and are trying to help but they are driving me nuts! I did speak up and tell them what was bothering me and why.

(((LGLG)))

Just ensure that when you talk to your parents, you tell them that you know that they are trying to support you in the way that they know how, but what you could really use is the support for what YOU have already chosen. I still get people asking me about what I am doing. As long as I stay strong in my plan and explain that it is something that comes from a psychiatrist who has helped THOUSANDS of couples. I give them the info about this site and explain MB. I guess the way I explain it, and having STRONG convictions that THIS is what I want to do, people generally back down and only say something against WH. Then they feel there is a chance to tell me to give up and move on(of course by this they mean DATE ).

Remember, you are a mother too, and what would YOU do in this sitch? Probably the same thing, before you found MB right? Surviving from an affair, either with or without your spouse, is not something that is widely known. That's why I was so HAPPY when I found this place. It makes so much sense and it WORKS.

I did talk to them last night. I did loose it a bit but I had to stand up for myself. As soon as I walked in the door my dad made a comment about how much stuff I bought and asked me if I bought out the store. (I bought a few food items and several house hold items we were out of. It wasn't that much stuff) They have been saying things like you have too much crap, you should throw stuff away or sell it on e-bay. They also point out home improvement stuff I don't have the money to do and won't do unless I know we aren't going to loose the house. I understand they are trying to help. I explained to them that I know all these things need to be done but I have to deal with the immediate future stuff first and then work on the other things when I can. It was a little tense. I changed the subject and talked light hearted. My mom gave me a hug and told me she loves me and they just want to help. I told her I understand that and when they bring up things I need or should do it just puts more pressure on me. Normally after I would stand up for myself with my Dad I would get the silent treatment from my dad but not this time.

The other day my mom said to me �Don�t date.� Like I needed someone to tell me that!
BTW, where are you in your stitch? I see you are in plan B and WH is still with OW. Are you still willing to work on things if he repents and makes amends?


I guess I would be doing the same things they are doing. The weird thing is they have seen WH a couple of times and they haven�t really said anything to him. They are in shock at how he acts like everything is normal. My dad even said that if he didn�t know what was really going on he would have no clue. I am so grateful I found MB too. Even if WH never comes around I know I tried everything I could. If I didn�t find MB I would have made terrible mistakes and would have kept in contact with him after D. Not now�

SIL told me yesterday her husband was able to look up the deed to the condo and it does say "married person" next to WH's name.

Where am I in my sitch? I am still in Plan B and with having small children, it isn't as dark as I hope. By that I mean, my children tend to tell me things that happen with WH and OW when they are there. It is hard to hear about these things but I need to let them talk when they need to. They are dealing with their anger a bit better too. It's harder to see my children deal with the abandonment of their father than for me to deal with the betrayal of my husband, KWIM?

Would I attempt to recover my marriage to my WH? Mostly, my answer to that is, "yes, as long as he is willing to meet ALL of my requirements for recovery." I would not even consider attempting recovery with anything LESS than that. There are days though, where I really don't know if I am going to really want hijm back. These past few days, I have been processing a lot about my sitch and honestly, I have been quite sad. I am worried that if I let WH go completely, I won't ever want him back. I think about all of the pain I went through during the A, during Plan A and now in Plan B and I don't want to "waste" it and then I realize that it would NEVER be a waste UNLESS I started communicating with my WH while he was still in an A and if I didn't follow the MB way. So, in short(hehehehe IMAGINE the LONNNNNGGGGGG answer), I am a work in progress. It's no picnic, but it could be a lot worse.

I know what you mean. I am angry about what he has done and is doing to me but not as angry as other BS�s get. I think it is because I need to stay focused and realize it is on him not me. It is when it affects the kids directly that sets me off.
WH does come here and visit with the kids. He has no clue how disconnected he is from them. They love him, but they are so used to him not being there emotionally and physically for them on a constant basis. My parents notice how disconnected the kids are from WH. They are relieved to see how well adjusted the kids are given the circumstances�. They realize that it�s because I have always been there for them and always will.

I feel the same way. He will not have any say in the conditions I put down. If he has an issue with them then I have my answer about whether he really wants to recover or not.

It�s hard I am sure. I will know how hard when I go dark. You just have to keep reminding yourself that you deserve a loving respectful spouse. You will never have that unless he comes out of the fog, confesses, makes amends and meets all your requirements. If you give in and break plan B that would be you not thinking well about yourself not him. You rock, you rule!

Speaking of going dark, is that date still Mar 1st? Are you fully prepared? Do you have everything figured out? Do you need any help? I believe that the more prepared you are, emotionally and functionally, for Plan B the easier it is to execute and STAY dark in Plan B.

Actually I haven't picked an exact day. I originally picked February 1st but that didn't work out. I have to get some things done before hand. We got the car out of the garage and started the clean-up in there. Dad is going to help me program the garage door opener and we are going to get new locks for the front door. I have a mental list in my head of what needs to be done but not on paper so I need to do that. Can you give me some pointers as to what I need to have done before plan B? I think I am mentally and emotionally prepared, it's the functionally part I have to work on.

Our old neighbors from WI are coming down here the first week of March and staying for a month. They have their own place that is a 10 minute ride from here. They can be great support to me and also be on call if I need them.

WH just texted me.

You want to meet for Indian buffet?

So I guess I am going to lunch.

Dad thinks I should tell WH to pound sand, tick him off. I told him that would just justify WH's opinion of me being a btch. Dad doesn't understand what I am doing but he said everyone is different and it's my life. I'm glad we agree on one thing!

Lunch went well. I texted him back with.
Sounds Yummy. How about noon?
He texted back.
YES!
Then he called me when I was on my way. He wanted to know if I wanted him to pick me up. When I was parking the car at the restaurant he texted me to let me know he got a table. When I walked in the door he was smiling at me. (I did look hot) We had a nice lunch then went our separate ways. He mentioned he was coming by to see the kids later. He showed up at 8:30PM. He went right to his closet to look for his ATM card for the new checking account. He had it and I don't know what he did with it but I'm sure he thinks I took it. I was joking around with him and things were ok. Then he mentions he needs the food card. (Put on the brakes an LB for me) I told him the card was for the kids. He said it is for the 6 of us. (tension rises) I told him I didn't think we should talk about that now. He said "Ok, but I need it." He did come back to me later to give me a hug before he left. He is not getting that card. Any suggestions as to what to say to him?

You did good.

Say:

Have you explained Plan B to Dad?

And you could add "You are welcome to eat with us"

(tee hee.....don't add til March 1st)

Thanks.
Yes I have explained Plan B and A to both my parents. My mom is more supportive but doesn't agree with it. My Dad also doesn't agree with it and tells me so in a non-direct way. He follows it up with "It's your life, you do what you want." or "I'm not you so I don't know what you are going through." Your basic passive aggressive responses that I always get from him. Can you tell I have issues with him? I am doing a great job standing up for myself with him without being mean or angry. I just state how I feel and what I want.

As for saying "You are right, it for the six of us. Not for one of us." he is asking for it for the kids visit this weekend. I can remind him he spent $250 of it last month and didn't have the kids. If you break it down to daily use it is $26 a day so that was 9.5 days worth. Or I can just say I have to stock up with food because he left me with 31.09 last month and food was depleted.

Be open and honest. Stop trying to teach him.

Nope, don't remind him that he took it last month, HE REMEMBERS.

Have you hidden the food card? Just treat him the way you would a child asking for money when you aren't giving him any, IGNORE.

If you feel like you need to respond, yu could say something like, "The food card is used for feeding our children in their home, crazy weather we are having." Then move on. DO NOT engage. This is NOT something you need to engage with him about, cuz he isn't getting the card.

I know this is going to sound like a weird question, but being in Canada, I am curious. What is this food card? Is it like food stamps used to be(I only know about food stamps from TV)? Is it something that is based on need? How could you get a card for food if he was able to buy a condo? If I am wrong about what the food card is, I apologize, and plead ignorance.

This is an ideal response! He needs to be responsible for all their upkeep when they are away from the home. If he needs to (HA HA Mr. Condo Owner good luck!!!) he can apply for his own card.

He is separating the household into "his" and "hers". This is one instance you are agreeing with him.

Are you talking about my dad or my WH? Could be either.

Lol, I'd say both!

I know he remembers but he needs to eat, right?

Yes, I have it hidden when I need to. I take it out when I have to use it. I have to treat him like a child because he is acting like one.

I like this.
Yes it is food stamps only it is now like a re loadable ATM card. They put the $ for the month on the 11th and once it is spent you are SOL until the next month.

The food card is in his name because he is the one collecting unemployment. If he gets pissed and messes with it I will have to go apply myself. I am looking into what I can get if he does pull any crap with finances.

My parents are opening a checking account here in their names, putting $ in it and giving me the card and pin number for me to use. He can't get at that account.

I could say "The card is for our home. We still have the same expenses as we always have had. You decided to move out so you will have to figure out how to handle your own expenses. Would you like a cookie?"

It seems like you need to go apply for your own card. This is one thing you need to take care of for your Plan B. When is that date that you have picked for your Plan B?

Your WH. You can't convince him with any kind of arguments in your favor. He is freakin' wayward.

WS: Can I get the food card.
LGLG: No.
WS: It is for the six of us.
LGLG: No.

If you stop teaching him and just state your boundaries. He will have no other recourse with you. If he gets angry, just remove yourself from him.

Let's be honest, if somebody is going to sneak around and take a can opener and the "good" knife, how are you going to convince this Freeloader? He feels entitled.

When you start teaching/convincing him that he is wrong, what is his response going to be?

You need to start enforcing your boundaries, not convince him of your position. He knows what your position is. It's plain as day. Stop playing his game and play yours.

I haven't picked a date yet. I have to tie up loose ends like this one. I wasn't even sure I could apply because he had. I have to look into how that works. Even if I did get a card for me I still have to be prepared for him cutting me off financially. I haven't been served yet (should be Friday) so I haven't gone back to see my lawyer to get a temp order of child support. I am waiting for a call back from the lawyer about the retainer. It is $4500 and I don't have that kind of money. I don't know if I can put it on a credit card or if my parents can pay it for me. I don't want them to pay for it and have WH get out of paying. In the summons (that I didn't get) his lawyer put we are responsible for our own attorney fees. I am not sure if that is the norm or they are trying to get away with something. There are so many things to think about my head is spinning.

Mr. Creosote is really depleting my love bank. I have to go into Plan B soon. Before you all hit me with 2x4's I know I shouldn't have engaged in his BS.

WH is supposed to take the kids for the weekend. Silly me assumed that meant Friday to Sunday. DD2 was talking to me and she mentioned going to Dad's on Saturday.
I texted WH with this.
For the weekend, pickup Friday 5pm drop off Sunday 5pm? DD1 needs to be picked up at school 9pm Friday and has 2 games on sat.

WH:Pick up Sat AM.

ME:Usual time is fri-sun. We can talk about it tomorrow.

(I knew this was coming)
WH:?usual time?- I will pick them up Sat am. Sat and Sun, drop them off at school on mon. Done.

So, this needs to be addressed. SCHEDULED CONSISTENT pickup and drop off time and days. The kids are going to be pissed and I hope they say something to him. We go to church at 6pm then youth group until 9pm every Sunday. He knows this.

Here comes my rant so I don't go off on him.
I am going to get as many boxes as I can and start packing up his crap this weekend. I will just throw stuff in boxes, no neat packing. I will be doing this for me not to help him. Just looking at his stuff is a LB for me so if it is boxed up and in the garage I won't have to look at it. It will also be easier for him to pick it all up in one day. It is mind boggling how selfish, self centered and entitled he is acting. Oh, and I think maybe I will just pop in at the condo this weekend. Go right in and use his bathroom, then raid his fridge. I am sure I will be really hungry after all that packing.

@LGLG -

Another thing to have addressed by your attorney. Consistent custodial times. You should have, that if parent getting the children is late by one hour of pick-up time they will forfeit their custodial time.

Of course it is maddening that WS does this.

Oh and it doesn't sound like a rant. Sounds like a plan.

LGLG...in regards to the food stamp card...you need to contact your social worker and update your situation. Your H moved out, he is no longer considered a member of your household, that affects the amount of food stamps you receive, his income is no longer your income. You maybe able to get more benefits...also if he reports it and not you...your food stamps may be cut off without you knowing..since you said he filed for them.

Thanks Clark_kent.
Yes it is maddening. I went through the papers I got from my lawyer and in the parenting plan it states the non-custodial parent gets the kids 6PM Friday until 6PM Saturday. They also get them one over night during the week. If we can't agree on a day it will be Wednesday. I wonder if he even got all the informational papers from his lawyer that I got from mine. Even if he did he would only read the parts that benefit him.

I will try to get that done tomorrow. He moved out but nothing is official as in legal separation. That would be one of the many questions I would have to ask.

They will want to know he has moved out, even if nothing has been filed.

One other thing you need to ask about, I'm pretty sure that Social Services will act to make sure you get whatever money from him they think you should get. They don't want to pay extra benefits if someone within the family (CHEATING HUSBAND) is supposed to be paying, too.

Even if he doesn't have a job now, chances are they will keep an eye on that.

LGLG,

I just went through this myself. WH filed beginning of Feb. and I was FORCED into retaining an attorney so he can't sell our crap (okay, marital assets). I too had to borrow money for the retainer. I hated having to ask, but I didn't have anywhere else to go for it.

I don't know what state you're in,(Cal?) they might take credit cards where you're at, you never know until you ask, pretend you're someone else on the phone and ask.

In my state, Pennsylvania, you can ask the court to have the H (or vice/versa W to H)pay part of attorneys fees AFTER the D is settled, not before.

That stinks because most of the time (not always) the H leaves the W & family, and he's the main bread winner in the family. Most of the time (not always)it's the H that files first also.

Have a yard sale and sell his junk to get money for the attorney if you have to, but you have to do it.

Will do Neak.

Lol! CRAP� It just boggles the mind that they go right for the crap. No thoughts about the people around them. One day (if) they come out of the fog they will look around for emptional support and find themselves standing alone and wondering where everyone went and how long they have been gone.

I live in FL. The great no fault state.
I e-mailed my lawyer�s legal assistant with a bunch of questions including ones about the fee�s. She said I have to pay the full amount when I sign the retainer. It is $4500 but will be well worth it. I have seen his �demands� on his papers and he is really trying to screw me. The LA said I can put $2500 on a credit card but the rest has to be cash or bank check. (I guess they have had lots of people write a bad check, it is FL after all)

It is in my case, WH even stated that I don�t deserve alimony. There is also a part that says he is seeking any unequal distribution of assets. Huh? And assets that are pre-marital and non-marital. Double Huh? If it was aquired during the marriage it is a marital asset. We got married when we were 25 and I can�t think of anything of value that he would still have that he can claim. If he is talking about inheritances from his mom then that is laughable. The only thing she has is � a beach cottage up in Boston. She co-owns it with her twin sister and they both have 9 children. My MIL and her sister would rather give me the share than him. (Not that I would want it)


Funny you should say this. My dad has been cleaning out the garage and our sons have been helping. Dad told DS1 to take anything he wants and sell it on e-bay. Then put 20% in the family fund and keep the rest. My parents have given me some $ but they are giving some to the kids to put in their own checking accounts that I am trying to set up. That�s another pain in the assk. The bank requires a SS card (not just the number) to open accounts for minors. I have cards for DS2 and DD2 but need to go to the SS office to get one for the other 2 and myself. I don�t even know what I did with mine, I haven�t had to show it in years but now places are requiring that you show an actual card.

Hello all,
Sorry I haven't been here in a while. As you can imagine a lot has gone on since my last post. There have been many vindictive things he has done. There have been more discoveries of his financial adultery and it has been going on for far longer than I realized. During this time I was also doing some deep soul searching. All while getting ready for plan B. Then he did something that was so horrid I realized I have to go into plan D.

He had been hinting to people that I had colorful issues and skeletons in my closet. I kept thinking what could he be talking about? I found out about a week ago. My sister called me and told me something her son heard from my oldest's son's girlfriend. A few weeks prior WH sat the oldest kids down and told them this "Mom has herpes." "There are only so many ways you can get herpes." The kids never told me. I sat them down one by one and explained to them that I do have herpes 1. I got it some time in my childhood and have never had a symptom and that it isn't an std. I didn't have an affair, their dad did. He has been telling people all along I cheated on him and that is why he is divorcing me. Using the children like that is emotional and psychological abuse. It was like a switch went off in my head and I said "I'm done." I knew something was off with the kids but I couldn't quite figure it out. It must have been horrible for them not knowing what to do or who to believe. They understand now that he worded it in such a way to get them to draw the conclusion with out saying "Mom is having an affair." I worry about DS2, he says things that sound like they are coming right from WH's mouth.

I forgot to add that the date on the deed is December 28th. It wasn't filed with the courts until late January.

I am soo sorry, and I totally understand if that is your decision, have you gone to your lawyer about this yet?

good luck

Yep to Sapphire. I hate this for you, lglg. I think you're making the right decision. Please see your attorney asap.

Gone to my lawyer about the date on the deed or telling the kids lies?

To initiate D proceedings - you mentioned heading toward D, right? (I think I read that)

I have seen her and have been filling out the mounds of paperwork I need to get to her. He found out who my lawyer was and had his lawyer call her office. My lawyer said they would work with them. I freaked at first but my lawyer and her legal assistant are a God send. They want the paperwork (financial affidavit and parenting plan) by April 1st so they can go over it and make sure we haven't missed anything. Here in FL you can be divorced in as little as 45 days. I have a feeling that won't be the case here. Once we accepted my lawyer typed up my responses and had me look them over. I kept looking at some of them and thinking boy is he going to be pissed. I don't know if he had been given the paper work a head of time like I was so now he will be scrambling to get it together.

Yes, I would have had no choice but to respond to his petition at one point anyways and once that is done there is not much dragging feet room unless you contest it. Soon after I responded to the petition I came to the realization that there is too much damage done and this isn't God's plan for me.

I know it is very upsetting that he spread malicious ideas about you to smear your good reputation. I don't think that it is that unusual for waywards to do it....so try to keep your chin up about it as you make your legal moves now.

lglg

I know it is normal behavior for a WW but it was the fact that he said that to our children that made me decide I wanted to proceed with the divorce. He is very manipulative and I can see him using them to place doubt about me. I really have no clue who else he told other than his mother. I am sure now he already told people those lies before I exposed so that is why I didn't get any calls from his friends. I have nothing to be ashamed about but my private medical information is now out there. He had no right to tell people. I will say something about it soon, I just have to think about the wording. Oh, and he shut off my cell phone. The plan is in his name but I had authority on it. My lawyer sent a curt letter to his. I have a trac phone I have been using for emergencies and I gave the number for to the kids. I talked to DD2 who was at WW. About 1/2 later WH texted me the same info she gave me. Like I don't know what he was doing. I e-mailed him back this.

Please don't text me on my emergency phone. I get charged per text and I only have so many minutes.
That number is for the kids to reach me because I don't currently have my phone, as you are aware. You can e-mail me or call the house phone.
As for Sunday you can drop them off at 5:30.
Thanks,
BW

(WH)You've had that cell phone for over a month (???) I guess you don't remember the discussions...

(ME)This issue can be easily resolved. You can contact AT&T and release the number to me. Then I can get my own plan and keep the number.
Thanks,
BW

No response back. Notice I didn't bite on his comment. My lawyer said he did respond the other day stating I had another phone that I was using and he needed to get a new plan. He released the number to me. He hasn't so I sent him this in the middle of a few things I had to inform him of.

I need to get my new phone from AT&T. There are 2 ways to do this, together at the AT&T store or over the phone with both of us present. You will have to reinstate my number under a new plan (I will let you know what plan and what phone I need). Then you just tell them you want to release it to me, I say I will accept it. Also, the kids told me you got 4 new phones. So each one of them will have their own phone correct?

I stuck it right in between my response to a bank question and how the baby bunnies the kids found are doing.
I am going to have to e-mail my lawyer tomorrow if he doesn't respond.

Oh and one night he came over for a pop in to see the kids when ever I feel like it visit. He was pissed at me for something, who knows what. He decided he was going to stay the night. I asked him to leave. NO. I asked for the town house keys so I could go there. NO I told him he was not spending the night. He said watch me. I told him I would call the police. He said go ahead this is my house and they can't make me leave. Imagine the shock on his face when he was awakened by a 6'5" + 300 very muscular police officer calling his name... Yes I did. The police officer had a "talk" with WH and WH agreed with the officer that it was best for him to leave. The first thing the policeman said is "You have your own place to go right? It's not like your homeless. Doesn't see deserve to have her own place?"

Thanks for being there for me Maritalbliss.
The kids and I went to church tonight. I am always more calm and centered when I leave church.

Holy Cow, LIGTG;

I am proud that you stood up for yourself. I am so sorry that the privacy of your medical history was abused, my H did the same exact thing when I started to take Webutrin for dperession and anxiety. "Because don'tcha know, Barbiecat is on "THOSE meds".

There is just no way to describe the violation of privacy you feel. My husband abused me this way, has been told by counselors this was abuse....and I still doubt that my H "understands it" today! (the amount of abuse- and level of resentment this brings.)

Note of warning, if he is willing to stoop to this level, expect no text, email or conversaation you have with him not to be openly shared with others...(voice recorders, forward and copies.)
What a moron!

Why would you he this to the mother of your children???


Wow. {{{{{{LIGTG}}}}}}}}

I knew he wasn�t going to listen to reason. I had to take control with out loosing control so that is what I came up with.

My WH mentioned his �councelor� and others told him I was wrong to kick him out. (When he moved himself back in after the first time I asked him to leave.)I said you are seeing a counselor? He said "yes". I know this is BS because as soon as someone tells him what he doesn't want to hear he cuts them out of his life. They think they are right and no one will change their mind.
I do have to admit after WH had a talking to by the police officer he hasn�t tried to stay over. He has had them for 2 weekends and is making statements about his weekend and what the kids have planned so that is a huge improvement. When he comes to see them or take them for the weekend he still just walks in. He still goes to the fridge to get a drink or something to eat. That WILL stop the second my lawyer gives me the ok. Locks will be changed; he will get an official date all his stuff needs to be out etc. All of this will come directly from my lawyer in an official letter not from me.
I know he is sharing everything I do, say e-mail etc. with his �friends�. I think it drives him nuts when I don�t react to his crap. I have secret fantasies of one of them contacting me to ream me out and me spilling the beans about the truth.
Because he is a wayward. He is hurting the kids but he doesn�t want to hear that. He has been told by me and others including his own family this but he just babbles and blameshifts.

There are so many people who don't know what is going on and telling each person individually is getting draining. There are people I run into that don't know but either it is a quick passing or all the kids are there. I want to send a general e-mail to people that care about us but don't know. Something like this.

It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that WH has decided he no longer wants to me married. He decided he was done a few months ago. With out my knowledge or consent, he cashed in stocks & various money from our nest egg bought a town home and filed for divorce. Telling everyone individually was getting draining so I decided one e-mail to those who care about us but don't know would be best. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to contact me. Be assured that despite everything that is going on I am doing remarkably well. I have an incredible support system and God is by my side walking with me.

Looks OK.
Is it COMPLETE?

Oh I forgot add this at the end. How do I word his adultery because I know his has cheated I just don't know with whom or how many.

Suggest something like:

Our marriage has been severely damaged by WH's adulteries over the years.

Ohh... That's good!

With everything going on I totally forgot to mention something that happened last weekend.

I pulled my truck out of the garage and started my clean organize sort. We have a 3 car garage and about 1/2 is storage, boxes and yard stuff. A few weeks ago our oldest went in there, turned on the light and saw a rat go through a hole in the ceiling. Well there was rat poop all over the place. (GROSS!) WH had 4 boxes of crap from his job he quit over 2 years ago. In one of those boxes was FOOD! it was packaged trail mix, packaged tuna but it attracted the rat. As I worked on my separation of assets I discovered something. Everything that was his in card board boxes not sealed had rat droppings and bugs. Everything that I packed in plastic bins with tight lids are fine... Interesting huh?

Now his stuff is way away from ours. I plugged the hole, took care of the rat and bombed the garage for bugs. He can deal with the droppings and dead bugs. It will be a nice surprise for him. If he leaves it I will tell him if I have to rent a dumpster I will send him the bill.

No real updates here. WH is still in deep denial walking around like everything is fine. He doesn't call the kids every night like he said he would. He told the kids they would have their new cell phones Monday or Tuesday last week, still no phones. He worked the Knights dinner Saturday night. I dropped of 2 of the older kids to work the dinner. DD2 "helped" in the babysitting room. I dropped them off at 6:30, dinner was at 7:00. I picked up DD2 at 9:00pm and brought her home. DD1 called here on her dad's new phone around 10:30 and asked to be picked up. (now she knows he has the phones and is po'd that he hasn't given them theirs.) When I got there it was just all the people working the dinner. I walked in the door and and saw DS2. He gave me a big hug. Others saw me and came to give me a hug. WH saw me and after a while came over to say "Hi". He awkwardly gave me a hug and I gave him a 1/2 hug. I said "Hi" back and moved on to talking to others. I think he was a little shocked. I knew he wanted me to be there so he could "Play" the happy family but I wasn't giving him that. As I walked around to find DD1 to tell her I was there I was greeted by my other "kids". I could see WH watching me as each kid approached me with excitement and gave me a big hug and called me "mama C". I am sure it ate him up. I told DS2 it was time to go. He put his hands on my shoulders and we did a line dance towards the door. I felt his hands come off my shoulders. Apparently WH had something he needed to say to him. . Is someone jealous? No calls yesterday and no cell phones. I don't know if he is contacting them through e-mail. I want WH to be there for his kids but it isn't happening and they are starting to see things for what they are.

On top of all this Friday I started to have issues that led me to believe I was getting a UTI. I couldn't take it anymore so I went to the walk in clinic yesterday. I don't have a UTI but I do have blood in the urine. After asking me questions the Dr. told me it was kidney stones. Oh what fun, if I pass them it will be painful. If I don't I will have to have an operation. Anyone out there know what I am in for? Any advice on this?

Keep a very, very close eye on this. (UTI/stones)

It could be nothing. . It could be very, very painful.
There are a few different ways of passing stones...(ultrasound break up.. surgery, good old fashioned...well- er you know)

er, uh. Funny. When we were young we talked about the Rolling Stones.... now?......<sigh>.

Oh, I know! The Dr. told me it could be very painful.

We're not that old. I am too young to have a rolling stone!

Just so I am prepared, how long will it take for the stone to roll on out? Are we talking days or weeks?