Marriage Builders
I have been reading on this forum this last week and I may have started out wrong.

My husband has been "friends" and talking to this girl at his work from the first of December or thereabout, from what I can collect. On December 8 I caught him passing facebook messages discussing our marriage in ambiguous terms. I told him this is inappropriate and is how affairs begin and asked him to stop. He said that he would stop talking to her on facebook and that he hasn't talked to her on the phone (not sure that is true).

They went underground and continued talking. He thought he could just be "friends" with her... he started saying weird things to me about leaving me and the kids. I told him I wanted us to be married and I loved him and let's go to counseling. He kept saying we just need to "talk" to each other. When he announced that he wants to leave at the end of January I freaked out... he agreed to counseling and I set it up. Each of us individually with the same counselor with the idea to eventually share the same session.

One week ago today I discovered one sexually explicit message (text) sent to an unknown number. It came out that day that he has "fallen in love" with someone else.


I told him that I wanted him to stay at his parents. I told him I love him and I want to work things out. We have 4 children. He took his stuff and went to her house and has been staying there all week.

He has been coming back to visit the kids and even to spend some time with me. It is weird. He says he loves both of us.... or he said that once... mainly he says he loves her.

Exposure... his parents know, his siblings and their husbands know, my parents know, my friends know. The people at his work don't know, I don't know how to get the message to them. Her family and such do not know. I have been reading that exposure is the first step. But how do I do it? These people are not in my loop. He is just avoiding everyone who knows... his family....

This weekend we are already scheduled to go out of state for the weekend. I am not sure how to act.

We had already started counseling... so I do have that.

Advice?





I am sorry that this has heppened to you. As you see now, it is vitally important that affair partners stay away from each other.

Now, you say that he has moved in with the OW, but he still comes "home" to visit with the kids? Well, that is a good thing according to the MB plans because that means that he is a cake-eater and these plans work best on a cake-eater.

Is this the first marriage for both of you? How old are you both? How, long have you been married? How old are your children?

You will need to find out all that you can about OW and her family. You will need to expose to their workplace as well. You should send a registered letter and CC it to at least 3 people so no one is tempted to throw it out and sweep this under the rug. You need to do this all in the same day so the AP's can not turn this into the fact that you are some nut case who thinks everyone is trying to sleep with her husband.

Is OW married?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
I am sorry that this has heppened to you. As you see now, it is vitally important that affair partners stay away from each other.

Now, you say that he has moved in with the OW, but he still comes "home" to visit with the kids? Well, that is a good thing according to the MB plans because that means that he is a cake-eater and these plans work best on a cake-eater.

Is this the first marriage for both of you? How old are you both? How, long have you been married? How old are your children?

You will need to find out all that you can about OW and her family. You will need to expose to their workplace as well. You should send a registered letter and CC it to at least 3 people so no one is tempted to throw it out and sweep this under the rug. You need to do this all in the same day so the AP's can not turn this into the fact that you are some nut case who thinks everyone is trying to sleep with her husband.

Is OW married?

Yes he is a cake eater. The first time he came home after the revelation you could see on his face that he missed us... he said "This feels like home."

This is our first marriage, we have been married 12 years, the kids are 6, 4, 3, 1.

OW is technically married but the papers for her divorced are filed. She has 3 kids of similar ages to our kids.

Do you think it would be wise to expose next Monday when we get back from the trip? Maybe on the trip I can... hmmm... "Plan A"?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 09:15 PM
Also, can I get sued for slander if I expose?
No. You cannot get sued for SPREADING THE TRUTH AROUND.

The OW would like you to think that. I certainly did not. In fact, I deposed the ow (two of them) in my D, and NAMED THEM in the papers, which are now public record for the world to see if they should so choose to.

You need serious intel and recon on ow. Expose like mad to everybody you can. Find out her name, city, where SHE works, and if her job has any connection to your WH's job and if so, expose in that way too.

Learn the carrot and STICK of plan A (which includes nuclear exposure) and also read and read the Operation Investigate board to find out how to do that intel and recon. Personally, I prefer a PI b/c that information they find is legal and can be used in court, and they're experts in getting photos and evidence.

You have 4 precious children who depend on you right now, to help daddy get out of that hell-bound tailspin he is in right now. The ow is going for YOUR jugular vein and your kids'. She has nothing to lose at all, in fact she's filing for divorce. Deal with her HARSHLY and have NO MERCY. Expose her. And threaten to depose her too, and expose to her BH and her entire family (the PI can help you find it).

Your WH still is interested and wants his w, home, and family. That part is good. Now strike while the iron is hot! The OW has to go NOW. Do not worry what a skank will say. Having proof and the truth is certain that she can never say you are slanderous to her.

If she is rutting in the mud like a pig, with a married man and father, then SHE IS RUINING her reputation, and you're just showing her the mirror of what she is doing. That's it. Trust me, she has no care or love for your kids, and she is a danger to your family. She wants you to step aside and let her have your husband, your house, time with your kids, and your assets.

GIVE THE OW NOTHING BUT HELL. I mean it!

This is coming from a sweet, God-fearing, educated, loving mommy who is a Tiger mom when it comes to standing up for my son! The OW doesn't stand a chance against you, when you have MB and the wisdom of years of experience on your side with an invisible army of US here with you!

Now start your plan and do it! Operation "Stop Skanky" has now begun.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 09:28 PM
Where do I find more info on the "carrot and stick of Plan A"?

This weekend we are supposed to be visiting WH's sister. I was thinking of exposing right after we get back. Chances are if I expose now he will still be throwing his fit and refuse to go.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 09:32 PM
They do work together -- but their job you can't get into. It is security entrance and such. So I don't know how to spread it around there....
You need to expose AT ONE TIME so WH will have hundreds of little fires to put out, and that there can be no chance whatsoever of anybody warning him or the ow before hand that it's coming.

I'll try to find the carrot and stick for you too.

As far as their job goes, you get IRREFUTABLE PROOF and hire a PI. Then you send such proof (copies of course, as you will have the originals) to their employer and the HR department and expose. We don't mean get into their actual work-place, just expose and it's effective when given to HR.

Lots of sexual harassment lawsuits happen because of affairs in the workplace, and it's a ticking time bomb to an employer. Personally if it were me, I'd angle for the OW to be the one fired. But I'm like that.
Posted By: Mulan Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 09:46 PM
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 09:53 PM
I could use facebook to find her family and friends. What would I write?
Originally Posted by mehr
Also, can I get sued for slander if I expose?

You can be sued but they cannot win if it is the truth. It is not against the law to speak truth in most countries.
You can get sued these days for almost anything.

It's the proof of the accusation that matters, like MelodyLane said!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 10:04 PM
Ok so if I have no "proof" that could win in court, i should not expose?
Of course not, you already HAVE good proof. The texts can be proven where they came from.

right now, you have to expose. Let the skank ho have to figure out how to stop you, odds are she can't.

Why worry what an OW thinks anyway. Does her knowing your husband is married and a father of four precious children stop her from having sex with him? obviously she could care less about you or the children.

Have no mercy on her. Follow plan A and read up on the Operation Investigate board to find out good ideas and what to do.

Most judges (should it ever go to court, and if things are done well, like plan A and B and MB principles, it may never get that far hopefully) would agree that if your H received a text message from a woman divorcing that was sexually explicit, and he responded back to her with something showing possible extramarital affair...that's pretty good proof.

I just went for the jugular b/c this ow didn't stop. I also had a WH who denied denied at all cost, his being in an affair. He was a gaslighter, who tried to make me think I was imagining things, like his affair, and I had the proof also to show him what he was doing. And that I wasn't afraid to use it to save my family.

Do not be afraid to do any of this! When you feel that irrational fear take hold, remember that the OW was not fearful to try to steal and sleep with your husband, who is married to you and dad to your children. Never be afraid to stand up to the OP! You're standing up for your marriage and I applaud you!

You're standing up for your family now! That is you being a hero.
Originally Posted by mehr
Exposure... his parents know, his siblings and their husbands know, my parents know, my friends know. The people at his work don't know, I don't know how to get the message to them. Her family and such do not know. I have been reading that exposure is the first step. But how do I do it? These people are not in my loop. He is just avoiding everyone who knows... his family....

Who told his family? You?

I would plan a nuclear exposure that is done in all the same day. You might do it like this:

1. expose to the workplace with our sample letter. SEnd to the director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee's supervisors

2. expose to the OW's facebook friends by sending out a private message to her family and friends. SPACE THEM A MINUTE APART SO YOU AREN'T SHUT DOWN FOR FLOODING. Copy and paste all her contacts into a WORD doc and send them our sample letter. Change your facebook picture to one of you, your H and your children.

3. your children should be told of the affair. This affects their life so they have a right to know the truth.
Please read Dr Harley's newsletter about exposure. While there are no guarantees, it is your best hope of saving your marriage. Exposure


Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BW


Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
Exposure... his parents know, his siblings and their husbands know, my parents know, my friends know. The people at his work don't know, I don't know how to get the message to them. Her family and such do not know. I have been reading that exposure is the first step. But how do I do it? These people are not in my loop. He is just avoiding everyone who knows... his family....


Who told his family? You?

I would plan a nuclear exposure that is done in all the same day. You might do it like this:

1. expose to the workplace with our sample letter. SEnd to the director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee's supervisors

2. expose to the OW's facebook friends by sending out a private message to her family and friends. SPACE THEM A MINUTE APART SO YOU AREN'T SHUT DOWN FOR FLOODING. Copy and paste all her contacts into a WORD doc and send them our sample letter. Change your facebook picture to one of you, your H and your children.

3. your children should be told of the affair. This affects their life so they have a right to know the truth.

Where is this sample letter? Yes I told his family that night. I told them that I hoped he would stay at their house but theball was in his park.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 10:35 PM
I see its in the next post
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 10:36 PM
The problem with the work letter is it is not true, I don't think it is primarily in the workplace and I don't think it is effecting their work...
Mehr,

Doesn't m.a.t.t.e.r. So, delete "primarily". What you think isn't the point...what an EMPLOYER thinks does and it cannot be ignored. They will have to address it. Remember, the point is to END the affair. Trust me from a personal perspective; affairs in the workplace are nightmares for employers. Actually, just rumors of affairs are nightmares for employers. But, someone internally or externally calling it out??? Holy crap-storm. Been there, and let me tell you, employers will meet behind closed doors and discuss the least "messy" way to make it go away. I don't care if the employer is (see edit). They WILL make it end at their place of business. Been in too many of those meetings over the years, and it p-sses people off! They are wasting time, wasting resources, consulting HR and legal, and ticked that the crap-storm potential is taking their time so that 2 people can blank it up at 10 p.m. once a month. Trust me, it doesn't matter.

That's what you want to happen. You want it to end.
Originally Posted by mehr
Where is this sample letter? Yes I told his family that night. I told them that I hoped he would stay at their house but theball was in his park.

Did you tell them about the affair? Do they know about the OW? Will his mother go pay that skankho a visit?
Originally Posted by mehr
The problem with the work letter is it is not true, I don't think it is primarily in the workplace and I don't think it is effecting their work...
They won't zero in on that word, mehr. What WILL jump out at them are the words SEXUAL HARASSMENT. Employers do not want to see that phrase connected to their company.

And mehr? Don't warn them before you expose. Just DO it - don't give them a head's up or they'll have time to paint you out to be a jealous lunatic.
Originally Posted by mehr
The problem with the work letter is it is not true, I don't think it is primarily in the workplace and I don't think it is effecting their work...

The letter is a SAMPLE. You alter it to fit your situation. If they are having a workplace affair, it most certainly is effecting their work, though.
Originally Posted by Surfer88
Been there, and let me tell you, employers will meet behind closed doors and discuss the least "messy" way to make it go away.

Amen. I have been in some of those meetings, too. Employers just want to do everything to cover their butts and make the problem go away. Workplace cheaters are walking loose cannons and are dangerous to the business. They are about as unprofessional as it gets so the many companies will want to try and get them out.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:20 PM
They don't have work phones or work computers. This is in a factory. He loads trucks and brings samples to her in the lab and she tests them. So there would be nothing to track that I know of. They just "met" there and started talking outside of work. It would be helpful if they were put on opposite shifts, but I don't know what would happen if I sent that letter. I sort of feel like a psycho wife if I did that...
Originally Posted by mehr
They don't have work phones or work computers. This is in a factory. He loads trucks and brings samples to her in the lab and she tests them. So there would be nothing to track that I know of.

Sure there is. If they see each other at work, they are probably doing something. Don't get so hung up on this. Just send the letter, tell them about the affair and let the company investigate. For all you know, they are getting it on in the broom closet.

Quote
They just "met" there and started talking outside of work. It would be helpful if they were put on opposite shifts, but I don't know what would happen if I sent that letter.

Putting them on opposite shifts will not resolve the problem.

Quote
I sort of feel like a psycho wife if I did that...

Feelings are not truth. You are not a psycho wife in reality.
Originally Posted by mehr
They don't have work phones or work computers. This is in a factory. He loads trucks and brings samples to her in the lab and she tests them. So there would be nothing to track that I know of. They just "met" there and started talking outside of work. It would be helpful if they were put on opposite shifts, but I don't know what would happen if I sent that letter. I sort of feel like a psycho wife if I did that...
Send it anyway. You'd be surprised at what that letter can accomplish.
Originally Posted by mehr
I sort of feel like a psycho wife if I did that...

Not to be harsh, but by not exposing, you greatly increase the odds you will not be a wife at all, soon.

He WILL be mad when you expose. But he is not capable of making rational decisions right now. If you want your marriage to survive, you need to fight against his affair with everything you have.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:27 PM
The other question I have, he plans to travel out of town with us this weekend. Should I wait until that is over so that he can see that I am willing to reconcile/meet his needs? If I do it *right now* I am afraid that he will not go on the trip. Also I wonder if this really does work? Won't it just be "well now that everyone knows, might as well divorce and marry her..." The stigma is one of the things that keeps him from doing that, I believe. He seems to think she is his perfect match. frown
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by StuckWaiting
Originally Posted by mehr
I sort of feel like a psycho wife if I did that...

Not to be harsh, but by not exposing, you greatly increase the odds you will not be a wife at all, soon.

He WILL be mad when you expose. But he is not capable of making rational decisions right now. If you want your marriage to survive, you need to fight against his affair with everything you have.

Why is that? Like I said, he already thinks she is his perfect personality match.... I think he wants to marry her....
Originally Posted by mehr
The other question I have, he plans to travel out of town with us this weekend. Should I wait until that is over so that he can see that I am willing to reconcile/meet his needs? If I do it *right now* I am afraid that he will not go on the trip.

It might be a good idea to go on the trip and then take a day next week to expose.

Quote
Also I wonder if this really does work? Won't it just be "well now that everyone knows, might as well divorce and marry her..." The stigma is one of the things that keeps him from doing that, I believe. He seems to think she is his perfect match. frown

What you are doing now does not work. While there are no guarantees, exposure is your best chance. It is no fun to carry on an affair when everyone is looking with disgust on their faces. Especially if you expose to her family. That will ruin the future of the affair with her family when they know your H is married.

Your plan does not work and you are headed for divorce now. You have nothing to lose.
no mehr. you have been given a gift from God. a workplace A? she is in the midst of a D? wow. lucky bc as the posters stated above, these 2 people engaged in inappropriate behavior in the workplace are about to get a rude awakening. be merciless. this woman who is in the midst of getting a D is trying to steal away the father of 4 children?! WTF. wonder how she'll like losing her job bc of what she has chosen to do. do NOT hesitate. if you do, then you will look back at the chance that you had here and express ever lasting regret that you did not act decisively and definitively. you will be the one looking at the dissolution and end of your family as you know it.

your H is NOT in his right mind for why would you jeopardize your family, your W and your 4 children for OW in the midst of her own D w/ 3 children of her own to support? inform her STBXH as well. how someone would seek to jeopardize the M of someone else knowing what doing such a thing would entail is beyond selfish. your H is not thinking with the head betw his shoulders. do not believe one thing he tells you either. he is not in his right mind. NOT. you need to be.

you have small children whose father is acting in a way that is not rational or reasonable. do not show mercy. none. you have come to the right place. we are here for you. i am a rookie compared to the great posters here like Melody, maritalbliss and others. go for the jugular. your family and your future are dependent upon you being strong and decisive. no 2nd guessing either.
Originally Posted by mehr
[Why is that? Like I said, he already thinks she is his perfect personality match.... I think he wants to marry her....

Right. So it is your goal to ruin the affair with exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing it will help ruin the fantasy. She won't look so pretty anymore when everyone is looking on with disgust and horror. Shines the light of reality on the ugly affair. It is like bringing in a crowd of onlookers to the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. It is no fun to get high on crack when a crowd of people are watching with disgust.
Originally Posted by mehr
Why is that? Like I said, he already thinks she is his perfect personality match.... I think he wants to marry her....
this is all BS. don't believe him. you are the W and mother of his children. he is blind to reality right now. will be for months to come. get ready to act. listen to Mel and others. do not believe 100% of what he says and only 50% of what he does.

you need to get to her family bc it will shame her as it should. a divorced mother of 3 is chasing after a married mother of 4. it is an illusion. it is a fantasy. do NOT believe anything else.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
She won't look so pretty anymore when everyone is looking on with disgust and horror. Shines the light of reality on the ugly affair. It is like bringing in a crowd of onlookers to the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. It is no fun to get high on crack when a crowd of people are watching with disgust.
it's like the movie hall pass. once the focus is directly fixed upon her, the warts will pop out. she will not be this radiant creature. she will be a husband-stealing, home-wrecking ho, and that will be obvious to everyone looking on. it IS fantasy. worse case scenario, he will leave you for her and eventually the reality will set in. he will realize that he left his W and 4 children for the fantasy of OW and her 3 children. they are not his children and right now it is all about the excitement. THAT cannot last.
Mehr, I have not seen a single person that exposed, regret it. BUT, I have seen many who have either regretted not exposing, or exposing too late.

I myself, followed MB. I exposed, Plan A'd and now I am in Plan B. I am BETTER than I was, and I am CERTAIN that I am better than I would have been.

Please, listen to these posters and EXPOSE this.

You have some heavy hitters on this thread posting to you already, you don't know how lucky you are. Take advantage of that and expose.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
It might be a good idea to go on the trip and then take a day next week to expose.
[/quote]

Well if you are the expert that is what I will do. I will wait until the day after we get back, unless he agrees to break all contact, etc. then. One week until exposure day.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
While there are no guarantees, exposure is your best chance. It is no fun to carry on an affair when everyone is looking with disgust on their faces. Especially if you expose to her family. That will ruin the future of the affair with her family when they know your H is married.

My fear is that her family will not care, or that they have already propagated a story over there....
MEHR -- LISTEN to the people here! YOu are getting the best help from MB, Mel, SMM...listen up!

There is a woman set out to destroy your family. Let's see...if some stranger walked into you house and cuddled up on your couch, what would you do? You'd unleash holy h-ll, I would hope. And, would you be worried that your family would think of you as a psycho wife? I think not.

Many BH's here say things to each other like "grow a set", get some "bal-s", etc. You need to do the same. You need to put your armour on, get a "set", and protect your WH and your kids from the viral bull these 2 are in the midst of.

Others will weigh in, but to address your question about the weekend...I'd do it on Friday, and go away for a great plan A weekend.
Holy responses, batman. Nice for you, MEHR! You've got the best here!
If everyone knows, and he divorces you and marries her then EVERYONE will only think about one thing when they here your WH name and the OW name...

"They broke up a lovely family, and now the two cheaters are married"

Nothing good will come to there reality IF they marry, trust me.

Every single day they will live with the pain they have caused both sides of the families.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:56 PM
Any advice on how to act this weekend with him? Obviously I am still reeling and going back and forth between despair and hope...
Originally Posted by mehr
unless he agrees to break all contact, etc. then. One week until exposure day.
want a surprise? he won't break all contact. he might tell you that he will, but rest assured the lies will continue and this will dive underground. forget "trust but verify" too. it is "don't trust AND verify." prepare for all out exposure to his job as well. that will torpedo this. he will be angry, livid, in a rage. be not afraid. that is to be expected and do not be surprised by it. if you hold back then guarantee that you will deal this the death blow that you need to. it is like cutting the chicken's head off. the chicken will run around for a some time afterward but eventually it WILL keel over and die. an A exposed to the light of day w/ the fantasy ruined does not last long. you heistate and you lose. take the shot.

OW w/ an impending D is engaged in a workplace romance w/ a married father of 4? WTF?! if she loses her job, too bad. shouldve thought twice before trying to steal someone's else H.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
If everyone knows, and he divorces you and marries her then EVERYONE will only think about one thing when they here your WH name and the OW name...

"They broke up a lovely family, and now the two cheaters are married"

Nothing good will come to there reality IF they marry, trust me.

Every single day they will live with the pain they have caused both sides of the families.

I told him that very thing....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/14/11 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by savemymarr
Originally Posted by mehr
unless he agrees to break all contact, etc. then. One week until exposure day.
want a surprise? he won't break all contact. he might tell you that he will, but rest assured the lies will continue and this will dive underground. forget "trust but verify" too. it is "don't trust AND verify." prepare for all out exposure to his job as well. that will torpedo this. he will be angry, livid, in a rage. be not afraid. that is to be expected and do not be surprised by it. if you hold back then guarantee that you will deal this the death blow that you need to. it is like cutting the chicken's head off. the chicken will run around for a some time afterward but eventually it WILL keel over and die. an A exposed to the light of day w/ the fantasy ruined does not last long. you heistate and you lose. take the shot.

OW w/ an impending D is engaged in a workplace romance w/ a married father of 4? WTF?! if she loses her job, too bad. shouldve thought twice before trying to steal someone's else H.

Oh I see what you mean... expose anyway. Okay. Maybe I should go with this Friday idea.... although she will likely text while we are up there, not sure I want him distracted with the drama I just created in her life wink
Originally Posted by mehr
My fear is that her family will not care, or that they have already propagated a story over there....
doesn't matter. light of day will do its' trick. get after her family, STBXH, friends, FB, etc. the workplace is the topper. life is not fair and you don't have to be in the fight for your marriage and your family.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
While there are no guarantees, exposure is your best chance. It is no fun to carry on an affair when everyone is looking with disgust on their faces. Especially if you expose to her family. That will ruin the future of the affair with her family when they know your H is married.

My fear is that her family will not care, or that they have already propagated a story over there....

Why would this be an issue? They may not care. That does not make a difference. There will be some in her family who will not welcome a married adulterer.

And even if your H will end his affair this weekend, the affair should still be exposed. Exposure shines the light of reality onto the affair and helps the affairees see how stupid it is. His workplace needs to know regardless so they can take steps to stop the affair.
Look. Plan A like heck on this trip and then unload hell on the affair when you return.

An old saying around here is this.."M can survive exposure, but a M cannot survive a prolonged affair."

your WH will get over being mad, but your M will not get over an affair that drags on and on and destroys your family.

That woman wants YOUR life. She will lie and twist things around to your WH. She will do anything and everything she can to get YOUR LIFE...and that will include trying to get at YOUR KIDS.

I should know. My xh's ow/wife did that.

She had no problem with a married daddy. Nope. These types, these OW, especially one who has filed for divorce has ZERO options left.

her only option is YOUR HUSBAND AND YOUR LIFE. She is going for YOUR jugular. You beat the beotch to the punch first and go for hers!

I guarantee you, her family will want to know your information and whatever she says to your WH, is lies! It is all 100 percent lies!

Affair partners also lie to each other, and know that too.

Exposing this far and wide at the same time eliminates the affairees from getting their crack-infested heads together to come up with a fogged-out plan. Like painting you as a scorned wife or a crazy person.

Do a kick butt plan A right now. Do it! Learn what your H's top EN's are and go for that. Make home loving, warm, and inviting. Cook his favorite meals, and give him attention.

One thing I did which pissed off the ow? I gave my x a hickey. It showed her (I put it somewhere nobody else could see it) that we were intimate. Drove her bat sh*t crazy. (I loved that part). Do that! It's war girlfriend! You are declaring war on the ENEMY OF YOUR MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN. That would be the ow.

You have a baddie ow on your hands. A seriously desperate one. So I would exhaust every and any measure I could to get to her and destroy this.

Expose her and destroy the affair. Exposure is like throwing water on the wicked witch of the west. She'll melt and scream. Arrrrrgh! She will not be able to handle all the truth and the "loooove" and the "specsulness" of their affair will suddenly be sleazy and evil and everybody will she she is a total skank.

Make the beotch melt. Make the affair die. Toss some water and some truth into it!

Just like this! She is trying to throw some fire onto your house and kill your family and marriage. Make it over! Make HER MELT!


Now until the day you expose do this:
1)gather intel on everybody you will expose to and especially on HER side and to the company.
2) NOBODY must know ahead of time. it is the act of simultaneous exposure that will be like that cold water in the OW's face! and in WH's face too!
3)Plan A your butt off! Make your WH so confused he won't want to leave your side! You can do this (winkey winkey). Search out his most important EN's and focus and zero in on them.

In doing these things, you will do this! Now focus on the beotch melting and tell HER: i WILL get YOU my not so little pretty! (ok, that was totally ripped off from the Wizard of Oz!) But I do bet she has a wart and some ugly green skin!


One bit of real life advice too...OW are always a trade-down. Never as good or attractive as the real thing (you). Be confident! She's a skank-ho contaminating the petri dish of the world! Toss some truth and water on her!
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
If everyone knows, and he divorces you and marries her then EVERYONE will only think about one thing when they here your WH name and the OW name...

"They broke up a lovely family, and now the two cheaters are married"

Nothing good will come to there reality IF they marry, trust me.

Every single day they will live with the pain they have caused both sides of the families.
it wont come to that bc once you act, boom. watch the roaches scurry into the cracks and out of the light. it will be too much for them to bear. your H will be shocked.
Originally Posted by savemymarr
OW w/ an impending D is engaged in a workplace romance w/ a married father of 4? WTF?! if she loses her job, too bad. shouldve thought twice before trying to steal someone's else H.

The OW is married?? If so, her H should be at the top of the exposure list.
Exposing to BH (OW's) will be like a DOUBLE pail of water dumped on her!

She is burning his house,their family down...he deserves to know the truth too! He could become a great ally in helping end the affair.

But her BH needs to know and is a huge exposure target too!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
3)Plan A your butt off! Make your WH so confused he won't want to leave your side! You can do this (winkey winkey). Search out his most important EN's and focus and zero in on them.

One bit of real life advice too...OW are always a trade-down. Never as good or attractive as the real thing (you). Be confident! She's a skank-ho contaminating the petri dish of the world! Toss some truth and water on her!

Unfortunately he has already gone to live with her so I won't be seeing him until Friday night when we leave. frown


And she IS a trade down... not to be arrogant, but even he said that. He said you sure look better but it isn't always about that. She is overweight and I am 100 pounds and with a nice figure after 4 kids. Take that skanky!!!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:07 AM
I can't seem to figure out her ex's name.... frown
Originally Posted by mehr
she will likely text while we are up there, not sure I want him distracted with the drama I just created in her life wink
let her text. gird yourself for lots of anger and recriminations. as for when you expose, you have to look at the pro's and con's of doing so on Fri or after the w/e.

PRO on Fri
1. shock to your H and OW before a supposedly "relaxing" family getaway. he will be beside himself w/ anger.
2. sooner the better?


CON on Fri
1. your H may very well cancel the trip or not go with you
2. need to be well thought out exposure. be detailed. i think you CAN do it.

wonder what MB or Mel thinks about this?
word for word this truth. make this a fun trip. family time. then boom. wreck it. your H's head will be spinning.
Originally Posted by mehr
Unfortunately he has already gone to live with her so I won't be seeing him until Friday night when we leave. frown
no sweat. when you see him Fri night, be smoking hot. wear the things he likes. smell nice, exude sex appeal. you are leaving THIS for that?

And she IS a trade down... not to be arrogant, but even he said that. He said you sure look better but it isn't always about that. She is overweight and I am 100 pounds and with a nice figure after 4 kids. Take that skanky!!!
i heard the same thing from my WW. i lost weight, have toned up, make 3x the salary... it is SO true about the affair down. he IS blind. CLUELESS. typical of this sort of thing.
Originally Posted by mehr
I can't seem to figure out her ex's name.... frown

Do what you have to do to figure this out. Go over to the Operation Investigate forum and use the resources to find out his name and contact info.

TODAY, go to the OW's facebook page and copy and paste all her contacts into a WORD document. Go through her contacts and RANK the family and friends in exposure order. Rank them according to their importance to the OW, such as 1. mother, 2. dad, 3. aunt, 4, grandmother.... You get the idea. Then move onto married friends.

When you send out facebook emails, you will want to expose in that order.
Originally Posted by mehr
I can't seem to figure out her ex's name.... frown
what state do you live in? i live in CT. i googled "CT case lookup" which enabled me to look up family, criminal and civil cases in our state, which includes divorce proceedings. try it in your state. it is not hard to find it. think. where does she live? do you have friends at the company where they work? what town? yellow pages? yahoo it. if you people search on intellius lotsa times it will pull up her H's name as well. try it.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
I can't seem to figure out her ex's name.... frown

Do what you have to do to figure this out. Go over to the Operation Investigate forum and use the resources to find out his name and contact info.

TODAY, go to the OW's facebook page and copy and paste all her contacts into a WORD document. Go through her contacts and RANK the family and friends in exposure order. Rank them according to their importance to the OW, such as 1. mother, 2. dad, 3. aunt, 4, grandmother.... You get the idea. Then move onto married friends.

When you send out facebook emails, you will want to expose in that order.

I did find out whoher mom and brother are.... none of her other relatives have become apparent.... the other names I don't know from Adam, and there are a lot o them. Not sure who to choose, but can't mail all 280 of them...
hate FB btw. in a pinch you can post it on her FB page once it has been fully exposed. let her have to delete that. i wouldn't know where to begin with that.
Originally Posted by mehr
I did find out whoher mom and brother are.... none of her other relatives have become apparent.... the other names I don't know from Adam, and there are a lot o them. Not sure who to choose, but can't mail all 280 of them...

Use your best judgement and try to select about 35-40 of them, based on how influential you think they might be. Target especially those with the same last name, because that will likely be her husbands family member.

In the meantime, I would plan to send an exposure letter to his workplace so it arrives on the same day you do the rest of the exposures. Send the letter certified to the Director of Human Resources and cc a key VP and both their supervisors. Be sure and put the cc on the letter. Mail them all at the same time. This ensures that no one will give into the temptation to throw the letter away.

I would also expose to his family members again. Tell them your H is living with the OW during the week and ASK THEM TO USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO PERSUADE YOUR WS TO END HIS AFFAIR. Ask your MIL to pay this ho a visit or a phone call and try to run her off. [if you were my DIL I would do this for you - I would personally go over there and raise holy hell and kick my son's [censored] for acting so trashy and shaming his momma]

Time all your exposures in the SAME DAY so it is a tsunami effect.

And yes, there will be some who will call you a "psycho" and put you down. They are crapwits and their opinions don't count. You will also have lots of people who will support you and take up your cause! Those are the ones who count.

Your H will be furious and will threaten to divorce you. Expect it. It means nothing other than he is angry that you interfered in his affair. It will blow over.
Quote
Well if you are the expert that is what I will do. I will wait until the day after we get back, unless he agrees to break all contact, etc. then. One week until exposure day.


mehr, take this opportunity for the next week to be at your absolute Plan A best. What are his needs - what is important to him? Take a few minutes and read about Emotional Needs here.
Don't talk to him about this - read about Emotional Needs and work on what you think his top 5 are.
Originally Posted by mehr
Oh I see what you mean... expose anyway. Okay. Maybe I should go with this Friday idea.... although she will likely text while we are up there, not sure I want him distracted with the drama I just created in her life wink

You want him distracted by the drama when he is WITH HER! grin When the nuke explodes, I would not be available. [Linked Image from pic4ever.com]
p.s. when he is with you and your children, I would not tolerate any contact between him and the OW. That should NEVER be tolerated. NEVER.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
Well if you are the expert that is what I will do. I will wait until the day after we get back, unless he agrees to break all contact, etc. then. One week until exposure day.


mehr, take this opportunity for the next week to be at your absolute Plan A best. What are his needs - what is important to him? Take a few minutes and read about Emotional Needs here.
Don't talk to him about this - read about Emotional Needs and work on what you think his top 5 are.


Well he is not living here... I won't see him until Friday.... at best I can occasionally call and text him and be caring and interested. Should I do that?

His needs-- affectsion (hard to do through phone), admiration, and conversation.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Your H will be furious and will threaten to divorce you. Expect it. It means nothing other than he is angry that you interfered in his affair. It will blow over.
too true. do not believe 100% of what he says. how can you believe someone right now who is engaged in A w/ STB divorced mother of 3 who i a pale shadow to what you bring to the table and is the mother of his 4 children. blah, blah, blah when he says it. take no stock in it. he will probably say
"i never loved you"
"i haven't loved you in years"
"we shouldve never gotten married"
"we were too young"
"there is no hope for us"

yadda, yadda, yadda.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
Oh I see what you mean... expose anyway. Okay. Maybe I should go with this Friday idea.... although she will likely text while we are up there, not sure I want him distracted with the drama I just created in her life wink

You want him distracted by the drama when he is WITH HER! grin When the nuke explodes, I would not be available. [Linked Image from pic4ever.com]

This sounds like a good idea.



I have identified her husband.... I think her FIL... her mother, her brother, and some other relatives that I am not sure how they are connected. Also her best friend....

It is on.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by savemymarr
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Your H will be furious and will threaten to divorce you. Expect it. It means nothing other than he is angry that you interfered in his affair. It will blow over.
too true. do not believe 100% of what he says. how can you believe someone right now who is engaged in A w/ STB divorced mother of 3 who i a pale shadow to what you bring to the table and is the mother of his 4 children. blah, blah, blah when he says it. take no stock in it. he will probably say
"i never loved you"
"i haven't loved you in years"
"we shouldve never gotten married"
"we were too young"
"there is no hope for us"

yadda, yadda, yadda.

How do I know it won't be true???
Originally Posted by mehr
I can't seem to figure out her ex's name.... frown
Go to www.intelius.com Search her name - it will bring her up with 'associated names'. Her H's should be there, especially if they're not divorced yet. You'll also get other names too - they'll probably be parents, grandparents and siblings. You might have to pay 1.95 to get all the info - not a bad investment.
Originally Posted by mehr
[
How do I know it won't be true???

If you took the booze away from a falling down drunk and he screamed and threatened and called you names would you wonder if it was true?
Quote
Well he is not living here... I won't see him until Friday.... at best I can occasionally call and text him and be caring and interested. Should I do that?

His needs-- affectsion (hard to do through phone), admiration, and conversation.
Don't make it a point to call him to do this. But when he calls you, to check on the kids, etc., be at your Plan A best.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
Oh I see what you mean... expose anyway. Okay. Maybe I should go with this Friday idea.... although she will likely text while we are up there, not sure I want him distracted with the drama I just created in her life wink

You want him distracted by the drama when he is WITH HER! grin When the nuke explodes, I would not be available. [Linked Image from pic4ever.com]

This sounds like a good idea.



I have identified her husband.... I think her FIL... her mother, her brother, and some other relatives that I am not sure how they are connected. Also her best friend....

It is on.

Good girl! smile Get your list in order.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
[
How do I know it won't be true???

If you took the booze away from a falling down drunk and he screamed and threatened and called you names would you wonder if it was true?

Is it really like that though... when will he come down from this retaliation phase?
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
Well he is not living here... I won't see him until Friday.... at best I can occasionally call and text him and be caring and interested. Should I do that?

His needs-- affectsion (hard to do through phone), admiration, and conversation.
Don't make it a point to call him to do this. But when he calls you, to check on the kids, etc., be at your Plan A best.

mehr, when you are with him, just focus on these top 4 emotional needs, because they are the INTIMATE emotional needs:

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Recreational companionship
conversation

Focus on being as pleasant as possible between now and next week. I would expose this affair wide and far, give him a couple of days to end his affair.

If he doesn't end the affair, you will want to shut the door in a dark Plan B and not allow him to have any contact until he ends his affair. As it is now, he is getting his needs met in TWO places and is cakeeating. The longer this is allowed to go on, the more entrenched the affair and the harder to break up. But if you remove yourself entirely, the OW will be expected to meet ALL his needs and she won't be able to do it. It will cause great conflict in the affair and it will start to crumble without you there to prop it up.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
[
How do I know it won't be true???

If you took the booze away from a falling down drunk and he screamed and threatened and called you names would you wonder if it was true?

Is it really like that though... when will he come down from this retaliation phase?

When the affair is killed and the fog blows over. That is why we are guiding you to kill the affair. And yes, an affairee is high just like a dope head or an alcoholic. They are high as a kite and have the same mentality.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
Well he is not living here... I won't see him until Friday.... at best I can occasionally call and text him and be caring and interested. Should I do that?

His needs-- affectsion (hard to do through phone), admiration, and conversation.
Don't make it a point to call him to do this. But when he calls you, to check on the kids, etc., be at your Plan A best.

mehr, when you are with him, just focus on these top 4 emotional needs, because they are the INTIMATE emotional needs:

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Recreational companionship
conversation

Focus on being as pleasant as possible between now and next week. I would expose this affair wide and far, give him a couple of days to end his affair.

If he doesn't end the affair, you will want to shut the door in a dark Plan B and not allow him to have any contact until he ends his affair. As it is now, he is getting his needs met in TWO places and is cakeeating. The longer this is allowed to go on, the more entrenched the affair and the harder to break up. But if you remove yourself entirely, the OW will be expected to meet ALL his needs and she won't be able to do it. It will cause great conflict in the affair and it will start to crumble without you there to prop it up.

How do you do a dark plan B with 4 kids? Right now he comes to the house to see them.


Its probably silly but I worry she WILL be able to meet all his needs.... except for his conscience...
Originally Posted by mehr
Is it really like that though... when will he come down from this retaliation phase?

He may or may not be angry about exposure. His reaction has nothing to do with anything. Think about it. Expect a reaction and be prepared to NOT react in kind. He yells, "You've done it now, I'll never come back!" Your response, "I am doing whatever it takes to protect our family. Would you like a cookie dear?" He yells, blah, blah, blah. You respond, "I am doing whatever it takes to protect our family. Are you sure you don't want a cookie?"

The point is that you remain cool, calm and collected. Don't let him rattle you. In fact, once you start the exposing, don't even answer the phone until you're done.

We've seen it happen 100s of time. They either get very angry (AT FIRST) or they crumble. Either way, the damage is done. Their affair is no longer the fun little secret, everybody important knows. It will cause HUGE problems between your WH and OW. Bet on it.

Just prepare to weather the storm. Your marriage will survive his anger, it will NOT survive his continued affair.
You have to PLAN for your Plan B, it's not something to be done lightly. With four kids, you'll have all of that spelled out in your Plan B letter as to how visits will go from now on. He will not be welcome in your home during this time.

Do you have a good friend or a relative who can act as an intermediary or family who would be willing to serve as a pick-up/drop off for the kids?

How old are your kids?
Originally Posted by mehr
How do you do a dark plan B with 4 kids? Right now he comes to the house to see them.

You change the locks and don't allow him in the house. Then he has to take the kids to McDonalds and the park for his visitation. Allowing him in the house gives him a family fix and helps him pretend like he isn't abandoning his kids. He needs to feel the full consequences of his actions with you making this emulate DIVORCE. In Plan B he should get a taste of his FUTURE if this goes to divorce.

Quote
Its probably silly but I worry she WILL be able to meet all his needs.... except for his conscience...

That is doubtful. If she did he wouldn't be hanging out with you. And you have something she doesn't: a HISTORY and his kids. She will never be able to compete in that regard. And just ask yourself what kind of a skank does a married man? A real low down, selfish loser. Not the kind of person who is a giver. She is a taker. And a taker will RESENT being asked to meet all his needs.
How old are your kids?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 01:33 AM
They are 6, 4, 3, 1. I think that I could drop them off at his parent's house for them to visit. He can't pick them up because we only have one vehicle big enough for all of them and I have it. I don't want him taking MY KIDS to go see her anyway.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
That is doubtful. If she did he wouldn't be hanging out with you. And you have something she doesn't: a HISTORY and his kids. She will never be able to compete in that regard. And just ask yourself what kind of a skank does a married man? A real low down, selfish loser. Not the kind of person who is a giver. She is a taker. And a taker will RESENT being asked to meet all his needs.

Actually she sounds like this needy emotionally unhealthy girl who makes him feel good about himself. Really good.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 02:08 AM
Okay I've been reading around and I have a question. Is Plan B effective at all? How high is the failure rate? The affair has only been since December, emotional at first and physical, as best I can tell, less than a month. I guess if it goes to divorce, I'd like to be the one to file and get the upper hand to take care of the kids. Just trying to figure out my risks. I sure hope it doesn't come to that.... we have 4 kids that need their daddy.... and I am a stay at home mom and this decision could change our whole life. I am so sad that he won't make the decision with his head that is right because he thinks he "loves" her.

Also I might have to move quickly to divorce because I am fully financially dependent on him. I suppose I would known within the week if he is taking themoney from me. frown
Can't answer your questions specifically bc am not vet like MB or Mel but can say that you have no choice but to fight. You CAN do it. I believe in you. Yours is the cause of right and might. Your H is NOT in his right mind. Not. It's simple. As much as he spews, NONE of it is true. None. Do not let him fool you. OW wants a man to replace her STBXH. Your H. And she cannot replace you. Your are the mother of his 4 young children. You are by far superior to the OW. He is not in his right mind. THAT will become apparent with time and with you taking action. I'm confident for you. Call me crazy. I'm some random dude on a forum. But we are all here for one another, anonymously or not. smile
And I'm dealing with SAHM of 5 children who has had 2 A's in 2 years. She has talked lotsa BS about being done. Done? The script is always the same more or less. Don't be fooled.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 04:14 AM
Ok.... I have made a battle plan... still wondering about plan B. But, for plan A.... the plan is this. When we leave for our trip on Friday at midnight I will be asking him to shut off his cell phone (and let me put it in my bag) and have a family weekend with us just and not her. If he committs to this, then Operation Reveal starts Friday at midnight. Let her deal with the chaos or revelation for 3 days before he returns, hopefully unsuspecting and having had a great time with his wife. Then he will be mad, but hopefully the revelation will already have done much "killing" in the heart of the OW.
There is a huge question to answer here and I'd like other vets here to help on this one too.

Should Mehr expose during the vacation or after?

My opinion on this Mehr, is to wait and plan A your butt off on the getaway with DH. Look your best, smell your best, have cute clothes and undies, etc. Court him like you did when you were dating and if the kids are with you, have one night and have an arranged babysitter.

I'd be playful and get him to turn the phone off.

When you return, after an amazing plan A weekend, and a wonderful time, send him back to where he came from and then expose! Let him have to deal with her during that time. Or else my other idea, is to expose and go immediately upon exposure after this weekend, into a dark plan B.

My thoughts are, possibly let them implode upon each other with a huuge, gargantuan, nuclear explosion of truth! You send him the plan B letter too, which is in fact, a love letter telling him how you want to have a better marriage than before, for you two to fall deeply into love again, but that as long as he's in this affair, it is not something you can continue to deal with as it's too painful.

I think a cake eater like your WH will lose his marbles if you did that, after the most loving and amazing weekend in the world.

You always do an amazing and wonderful plan A, and follow up with a dark, dark plan B.

What are the thoughts of some others here?

Should she (sorry to jack your thread, but asking for thoughts)expose during the weekend? Or should she wait and expose after the weekend? Or should she wait until after the romantic family weekend and do a simultaneous nuclear exposure and go into a very dark plan B? Penny for your thoughts.

I think you supply a good deal of his EN's yet still. And he may very well have a great amount of attraction for you too. Play on his top EN's this weekend and look amazing! Cook his favorite foods, or go to favorite restaurants. Make amazing memories...memories he CANNOT ever give up. Make it so darn hard for him to want to carry on an affair when you go into a dark plan B.

Make him wanting YOUR cake and yours only. You can do it. And while you're doing this, you're throwing water on the green, ugly beotch, melting her and her evil OW plans!

Btw, you're doing great! Good in sticking to the MB plans. However each unique situation deserves a little bit of introspection and wisdom. The folks here are absolutely amazing!

My M didn't make it, but my x is a serial cheater, and divorcing the ow/wistress/wifey now. I however, am happy beyond belief, have full custody of my child, and used my MB skillz to strengthen my M to my husband (we married end of July, 2010)and he to I! MB is the plan and way to live!

Hugs to you..you can do it! and get a big pail of water ready to throw on the OW and watch her melt!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 12:14 PM
My thought was being that if I exposed right when we left, she would have 3 days to deal with the drama on her own, and when people asked about this situation, she would have to say that he is with his wife and children for the weekend (hmmmm not such a dead marriage, eh?). I know he has told her it is with the wife and children, but the truth is, I got a babysitter for 3 kids... I am only bringing my nursing 1 year old, and I have a babysitter for him too so we can go out on dates while there, I just can't be away from him for 3 days. It would also make me slightly giddy, giving me an easier time doing Plan A at all, knowing that she's at home dealing with drama, like a secret I have from DH ...


I also would like to see what a Plan B letter might look like. I think if I expose this way I would want to give him the Plan B letter when he is leaving my house to go to her house after the trip.
mehr, I would not do it like that, because your plan depends entirely on one thing: him not talking on his phone. He will talk on his phone and when that happens your weekend is going to blow up and you will have lost an opportunity to leave a really good taste in his mouth.

Better to make the very best of this weekend, and then come back and blow things up when they are together. You want them to be together when you do this so your H sees the meltdown.

If you do it like this, his last memory of you will be wonderful when he has to deal with her meltdown. She will be going nuts. grin You want him to be there when that happens.
Quote
Actually she sounds like this needy emotionally unhealthy girl who makes him feel good about himself. Really good.
This is good. Needy, emotionally unhealthy girls are not attractive in the long haul. Couple that with her inability to meet all of his needs and whammo - dead A. Coupled with exposure, of course. That's what will put the stake through the heart of this. wink
Originally Posted by mehr
I also would like to see what a Plan B letter might look like. I think if I expose this way I would want to give him the Plan B letter when he is leaving my house to go to her house after the trip.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I would get that today and read through it so you understand what you are dealing with.

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My thought was being that if I exposed right when we left, she would have 3 days to deal with the drama on her own, and when people asked about this situation
I'd say to let this blow up in their faces simultaneously after your weekend together. If he's not around she'll be forced to do damage control on her own, and then she can let him know the story she spun. She'll have too much time to settle things down before you get back. You want them both scrambling for cover at the same time.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 01:44 PM
Ok. It waits. It will be harder to do Plan A. frown He "loves" her and they are so well suited, supposedly.... barf... it is really hard not to act frantic and pleading the whole time.


Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
I also would like to see what a Plan B letter might look like. I think if I expose this way I would want to give him the Plan B letter when he is leaving my house to go to her house after the trip.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I would get that today and read through it so you understand what you are dealing with.

Yes it is coming in the mail.... maybe today, maybe tomorrow?
Mehr,
I heard all that crap as well, that the OW was his soulmate thing and how happy she made him, that story changed a whole lot when the secret affair was out in the open and everyone else knew including his children.......
Let the exposure happen, let it happen hard and as intense as you can do it. Fantasy hits reality...........don't help him, he will be mad, the madder the better.....that way you know it has worked.....
If he doens't stop, PLan B, don't talk to him, let him feel what his life will be without you and your family...........It works and works fast when that reality hits him, it's tough to do, but stay focused on the future not the pain you will feel today. Let that strength enpower you, you have a history that is stronger than you think..............rely on that strengh even if it takes a bit for him to realize what he is actually doing..........
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Ok. It waits. It will be harder to do Plan A. He "loves" her and they are so well suited, supposedly.... barf... it is really hard not to act frantic and pleading the whole time.
Oh, well, just puke
mehr, these little protestations of love mean nothing. Try not to remind him of the things he's saying when the two of you are in recovery, so as to not embarrass him too much.

Wacky waywards... sigh
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by jessitaylor
Mehr,
I heard all that crap as well, that the OW was his soulmate thing and how happy she made him, that story changed a whole lot when the secret affair was out in the open and everyone else knew including his children.......
Let the exposure happen, let it happen hard and as intense as you can do it. Fantasy hits reality...........don't help him, he will be mad, the madder the better.....that way you know it has worked.....
If he doens't stop, PLan B, don't talk to him, let him feel what his life will be without you and your family...........It works and works fast when that reality hits him, it's tough to do, but stay focused on the future not the pain you will feel today. Let that strength enpower you, you have a history that is stronger than you think..............rely on that strengh even if it takes a bit for him to realize what he is actually doing..........

I wish I had been reading here to start, when I found out, because I revealed to his family right away. So he's just avoided them. I was hopeful that would end it.... I wish i could have exposed all at once, now I fear "what is left" won't be enough of a tsunami.
mehr, sorry if I missed this: how long have you been married? How old are your kids?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 05:20 PM
We have been married 11 years and have 4 kids under 7.

I really want to do the right thing here. I get exposing to her people. But who else? Do I find anyone who works where they work? It is a VERY big company, and I am finding people who have listed that as their workplace but I can't be sure they even know who my WH and OW are. I am also not sure about sending the letter to corporate since it could be slander. I really need a lawyer to call me back...

If I expose to his work place my in laws will never forgive me. My FIL works there too. It might also be biting the hand that feeds me if he loses his job...

Oh! And also, how do I decide who to expose to in his world? The form letter about her doesn't work in his world.


I am just doing my research.
Why doesn't the form letter work in his world?
Originally Posted by mehr
If I expose to his work place my in laws will never forgive me.

Shouldn't they be wondering if you will ever forgive their cheating offspring, instead?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 06:39 PM
[quote=RidicSit]Why doesn't the form letter work in his world? [/quote

Well is there a way to change it to... dear friends of my husband, ...??

I am speaking of the form letter that starts "Dear friends of Skankyhola" ...

I am just in a panic today, feeling like this will never happen and he is going to marry her.
Mehr,
don't look it like that, send an email out to everyone he knows, his work, his family, your family, the OW's family, friends.........the more the better, let him feel the brunt of his choices, he will be mad, so what, just keep saying you are fighting for your marriage and your children's lives and father......
don't take blame for anything, these were all his decisions alone......
be controlled and caring........tell him if he continues with the OW you have to be out of his life that it is just to painful for you to live through this, watching him live a life with someone else, you set up an IM so you can pass the children back and forth there and let him live the life he thinks is better........sit back and watch things fall apart in fantasy land.......
don't be scared, you have this site now.......use it to give you support.......
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by jessitaylor
you set up an IM so you can pass the children back and forth there and let him live the life he thinks is better........sit back and watch things fall apart in fantasy land.......

Does that take a long time? I just got the book, Surviving The Affair
Well, of course the form letter does not mean you should send it unchanged and leave the word "Skankyhola" in it.
The idea is to adapt the letter to suit your situation.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/15/11 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by happyheart
Well, of course the form letter does not mean you should send it unchanged and leave the word "Skankyhola" in it.
The idea is to adapt the letter to suit your situation.

Well of course not... lol... sorry I didn't know I was being so confusing. I did already adapt the letter and have it saved, to send to HER friends and relatives. But the question is, what about HIS friends/work place aquaintances? The letter doesn't quite fit, I was wondering if there is one for a husband
I used the same one for both, just changed the name. It worked quite well. It was short and sweet.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/16/11 01:07 PM
Thanks smile

I am just in active waiting mode.... trying to prepare for the weekend, and then exposure day right after I get back.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/16/11 08:20 PM
OMG.... this dude is crazy.... he went to counseling today. The counselor (who I also see separately) urged him to wait 6 months before doing anything legal. He said he is definitely going to do that and he doesn't know which way he will go. I remained calm on the phone, but truly I want to throw up. He thinks it is okay to do this for 6 months? To live with his girlfriend and put me through this? I don't think I can do it. I don't think I can be the back up plan.

I have a suspicion.... which may or may not be true. he may be waiting 6 months so that he can say he separated and pretend like it wasn't an AFFAIR.... I hope that exposure day ruins that.
Originally Posted by mehr
I really want to do the right thing here. I get exposing to her people. But who else? Do I find anyone who works where they work? It is a VERY big company, and I am finding people who have listed that as their workplace but I can't be sure they even know who my WH and OW are. I am also not sure about sending the letter to corporate since it could be slander. I really need a lawyer to call me back...

If I expose to his work place my in laws will never forgive me. My FIL works there too. It might also be biting the hand that feeds me if he loses his job...

sigh...........I guess no one else here can address this post and post the standard workplace exposure letter?? this is very frustrating to me!

mehr, the way you expose at his workplace is send a certified letter to the Director of Human Resources, ccing a key VP and their supervisor. The cc is important because it prevents anyone from giving into the temptatation to throw away the letter. If you don't expose the affair wide and far you won't have in-laws anyway, so that is a moot point. If they are trying to keep this affair a secret, then they are part of the problem. You can't throw your marriage away just to protect your in-laws. Affairs thrive on secrecy and everyone should know about it.

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

Originally Posted by mehr
I have a suspicion.... which may or may not be true. he may be waiting 6 months so that he can say he separated and pretend like it wasn't an AFFAIR.... I hope that exposure day ruins that.

WE don't care about his plan, we care about your plan! Pay it no mind!
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he may be waiting 6 months so that he can say he separated and pretend like it wasn't an AFFAIR.... I hope that exposure day ruins that.

This is what will happen with FULL EXPOSURE. That's why it is important for you to expose this all at once. One of the most important things is that they will not be able to play this as some "romance" and that everyone will know the truth.That is the one reason that I don't regret having exposed to everyone I could....including their workplace.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/17/11 09:45 PM
I'm sick today and I called him to ask if he would watch the kids and he didn't answer. Today my heart is starting to get hard. How can he be such a selfish [censored] and do this to his kids?
That's what they do, mehr. Someone once compared a wayward to an alien inhabiting your spouse's body. It seemed to fit, in my case.

You mentioned a concern over being sued for slander by exposing to the workplace. As long as you're telling the truth you'll be fine. Besides, the last thing your husband or OW is going to want to do is to go to court and have you bring their affair to light.

You'll be fine. Expose to the workplace. If he loses his job, that's his fault for having an affair. It would actually be a good thing because it will reduce the amount of time that he has contact with OW.

But he's going to have to leave that job whether he gets fired or not. He can no longer work there or have any contact with OW, and that should be a condition for your wanting to stay in the marriage.

Oh, and it doesn't matter all that much, but how do you know that OW is in the process of getting divorced? Did your husband tell you that? There's a decent chance that you haven't been told the complete truth in that regard. Make it a priority to speak to her husband either in person or on the phone. If he's in some custody or alimony battle, if there even is a divorce in process, I guarantee that he'll be interested in what you have to say.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/18/11 12:48 PM
He will be getting the letter on Monday night.

How do you know when it is the right time to move to Plan B?
Mehr,
Good Luck with your plan A on the weekend and the exposure when you get back, stay strong and keep your eye on the big picture.......your husband will be mad, mad is a good thing, you will knowing exposure is having an impact.......
(hugs)
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/22/11 04:45 AM
We had a pretty good weekend.... got back tonight.... he was acting fully husbandish all weekend. He was affectionate, we had sex, we had fun.... he says he can't decide what he is going to do but he has very strong feelings of love for her and he is not sure about me, how all he feels about me, something like that.

Just executed Exposure. I hope it was a wide enough net. I am nervous to see what happens.
Stay strong, mehr! Did you contact the employer?

Stand back and watch the crap hit the fan in front of him. When he raises a big stink about what you've done and says that he was thinking of coming back but not now, just don't engage him--tell him you're fighting for your marriage and will not be dragged into an argument with him.
Mehr,

you are telling my story my husband was just like yours saying the same things to me, exposure killed his affair, made him really see himself for what he was doing to me and our family.............
sit back and watch it all fall apart, he will be mad, the madder the better, means it's working.
the next while will be difficult for you, just keep posting and gaining your strength back here.........
Originally Posted by mehr
We had a pretty good weekend.... got back tonight.... he was acting fully husbandish all weekend. He was affectionate, we had sex, we had fun.... he says he can't decide what he is going to do but he has very strong feelings of love for her and he is not sure about me, how all he feels about me, something like that.

Just executed Exposure. I hope it was a wide enough net. I am nervous to see what happens.
Excellent, mehr! Now remember - he may well respond like a cat in a bag. Don't let that throw you! You stay calm. Remember this sentence: I love you and I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage." Because he's probably going to be very upset and ask you why you would do such a crazy thing as tell everyone his "secret".

We're here in case you need some support if the firestorm hits. Good job, mehr!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/22/11 01:10 PM
I know that she didn't know we went out of town with just one kid, riding in the same vehicle, slept in the same bed, etc. etc. She thought we took the kids to see his sister and we are not together.... seems to think we are in a different place in our relationship than we are... she even asked him if we would be staying in the same room, he said he told her "I didn't think about that." Yeah, right! Of course we slept in the same room, his family wants us to work this out and is not at all okay that he is cheating and thinks he loves someone else.

He kept texting her over the weekend.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/22/11 01:14 PM
So I got one facebook response from person in their circle but not mine that said, I understand you are going through a hard time but this is not a good thing to do, please don't communicate with me anymore.
mehr

Sounds like you played this just right. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Keep up the plan A work. Remember, the exposure fall out is going to be dramatic.... but will blow over.
The angrier and more drama... the better. (Tho it will not seem like it at first - you will be blamed for EVERY COTTON PICKEN THING WRONG WITH THE WORLD!)

He WAS going to work on the M... but big old bad you(fill in the blank)
You broke the TRUST.

It is all fogbabble cr@p. Put on your orange nuclear protective gear and suit and wait it out.
Originally Posted by mehr
So I got one facebook response from person in their circle but not mine that said, I understand you are going through a hard time but this is not a good thing to do, please don't communicate with me anymore.
You'll probably get a few comments like that, typically made by people who don't want to 'get involved' or who don't understand how to kill an A. Don't be distracted by that. Your goal is not to win some stranger over to the proper way to stop an A, it's to get the word out to anyone who can put pressure on the APs to end the A.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/22/11 01:25 PM
Yeah, its hard to get responses like that. frown
tighten your seatbelt, when the news hits crap will hit the fan.......don't worry about anyone but yourself and just keep saying you will do what you have to save your marriage and family and that you love him with all your heart.
Who have you all exposed to??
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Who have you all exposed to??

unfortunately it came in two waves because right when I found out I told his family and my family and my circles of friends and our church, so he has been completely avoiding all of those people..... but then just now it was his work and her circle of relatives/friends that I could manage to find...

I had the oddest response. Hold on and let me type it up.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 01:29 AM
I had typed this to a friend, I altered to remove the names. This morning he was coming over to visit with the kids and watch them while I went to counseling:


I was thinking about exactly how the response to the exposure letter came from WH.... see, first he came into the house and he said "I was sleeping good until 5 am when her exh called to say he got a certain note. He said he didn't really care but he wanted her to know about it." I smiled and said nothing.

He brought it up at least two more times before I left for counseling, like "Man I am tired. After that 5am call I had trouble getting back to sleep."

In my opinion he was fishing for some sort of response and I gave none except to appear politely interested.

Then when I came back from counseling and he was leaving and on his way out the door and he says "He read the note to us and she was really mad, but I was trying not to laugh because it was so you." I said, "Oh?" and he said "Yeah but she was mad so I tried not to laugh." I said joking, "Yeah. You know you like me." He just smiled like he agreed and got into his car.

The more I have thought about it I think that he sounded proud or admiring about the note.... that was the feeling..... is that not the most bizarre thing EVER?
Well, I'd say he doesn't really give two bits about his girlfriend if he's laughing at what limited exposure has hit her. Since it didn't affect him personally, then it didn't matter to him and would make sense. Now, since OW is reported as mad, then that's a good thing. You want her to be catching hell from her folks as well.

I'd say so far, so good.

Wait until he gets it from his employer, friends and family. If he's like most, he'll change his tune real quick once it starts happening to him and will start blaming you for having the audacity to get upset that he's an adulterer. That's ok if he does that---just try not to laugh in his face.

Have you had any response or indication from others that anyone has said anything to him?
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Who have you all exposed to??

unfortunately it came in two waves because right when I found out I told his family and my family and my circles of friends and our church, so he has been completely avoiding all of those people..... but then just now it was his work and her circle of relatives/friends that I could manage to find...

I had the oddest response. Hold on and let me type it up.

To WHOM did you expose this week? Did you expose the affair to their workplace like we instructed?
Originally Posted by mehr
The more I have thought about it I think that he sounded proud or admiring about the note.... that was the feeling..... is that not the most bizarre thing EVER?


This is not bizarre. It is an admirable trait to exhibit self confidence. To stand up for your M "is" impressive. Even in this wharped situation, your WH knows a good quality when he sees one.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 06:49 PM
He called an hour ago on the way to his counseling session and says he woke up this morning and was really thinking about things. He says he misses us but is in so deep he doesn't know how to get out. We talked about these things while he drove there. I am praying the counselor has the right words.
Originally Posted by mehr
He says he misses us but is in so deep he doesn't know how to get out. We talked about these things while he drove there. I am praying the counselor has the right words.

Try not to engage him in this fogbabble. Next time try

WH: I miss you but am in so deep with OW that I don't know how to get out.
You: So you feel bad, huh?
WH: Yeah.
You: Then quit cheating on me.

Don't let him try to make you feel sorry for him. His line about being in too deep just translates into "I want both of you in my life and am trying to figure out how to make that happen." He wants to you say "Oh, I understand and am soooo sorry that you're going through this, awww, poor pitiful you." Gimme a break!

So did you expose this to his workplace? Anyone else? Have you seen or heard anything to indicate that the exposure is having an effect on him?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 06:58 PM
Well, hopefully its more than fog babble, but it may not be. We talked about moving, and he said "but the kids like their house, and this will set us back for years" and I said, I don't care we can live in a shack, the kids do not care about this house as much as they do you...

yes I exposed to his workplace.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 07:00 PM
We are in Plan A if it matters.... so showing that I care about his feelings seems to be important at this point, but that doesn't mean I am going to "accept" the affair either. I still am carrot dangling. wink
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 07:33 PM
Yup, he called after counseling and was effectively bargaining.... said it would be too hard to leave his job because we need the money, and if he broke things off with her it would be over... blah blah blah.... I told him it was non negotiable.

What do I do next?
Stick to your guns, don't buy his justifications he is cake eating don't let him, it's her or you and your marriage........
No Contact with the OW for life. it's the only way that is acceptable, if he refuses, Plan B.
If you stop meeting his needs he will be forced to self reflect and live the life he has chosen.......the longer you engage him the longer he will think he has the right to continue the affair..............He won't have any reason to stop if you still care about him, you and the marriage and kids have to come first........
hang in there...
You let him know that NC is the first step to recover from his "being in too deep." You are willing to do whatever it takes to repair the M, but you will not allow him to have two women meet his needs. Your H is a junkie that needs help, and that help starts with complete NC.
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He says he misses us but is in so deep he doesn't know how to get out.
I remember someone who once said "When you're digging yourself in too deep, put down the shovel." Simplistic, but accurate. Tell him to put down the shovel. Tell the OW "It's over."
Originally Posted by mehr
Yup, he called after counseling and was effectively bargaining.... said it would be too hard to leave his job because we need the money, and if he broke things off with her it would be over... blah blah blah.... I told him it was non negotiable.

What do I do next?

What did he say when you told him it was non negotiable? Does he know you exposed at work? Did you REALLY expose at work? How did you do it?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 08:16 PM
Yes he knows that I told work, he says he is not looking forward to going to work since people have heard. His response to it being non-negotiable was non-committal... he didn't really say much. I know/assume that after he got off the phone he went to talk to her because he didn't have to be at work for an hour... so gag. He says she understands him and knows him really well and could see he was having doubts this morning *roll eyes*
he won't de fog until the affair ends and there is no contact in place, until then he will not think logically..............don't believe anything he says right now, his actions will tell you the truth, don't panic it's a slow road, with lots of hurtful bumps, don't let it get the better of you.......
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/23/11 11:43 PM
Apparently he did not go to her house, he went to DQ and met his dad... his dad is obviously in favor of him staying with the marriage. Interesting. Yes.... his actions will speak...
I certainly hope the heat is on the ow, and that she feels the firestome falling around her!

Wishing the absolutely best now! Remember, exposure does work! Just knowing there WAS any reaction is good. And wh going to see his dad is good! I think the snippet about the ow thinking your WH had "doubts" was great news!

But the affair won't end until NC is firmly in place. Ow needs to be fired and out of the workplace! I certainly hope this happens soon. Stay strong and know exposure DOES work!
Originally Posted by mehr
Yup, he called after counseling and was effectively bargaining.... said it would be too hard to leave his job because we need the money, and if he broke things off with her it would be over... blah blah blah.... I told him it was non negotiable.

What do I do next?

Stick to your guns, you said the right thing. One of them will have to leave the job. Since you cannot predict what she's going to do, he should leave now as a condition for you staying in the marriage.

I asked my wife to do that the day of exposure and she quit that afternoon. It's been rough financially but, you know what, we somehow have managed to make it work. It's not as comfortable, but I wouldn't trade all the money in the world for the opportunity to have a good marriage. I think you probably already know that, but will throw it out there just in case wink

Take care, hope your husband starts waking up very soon.
Originally Posted by mehr
Apparently he did not go to her house, he went to DQ and met his dad... his dad is obviously in favor of him staying with the marriage. Interesting. Yes.... his actions will speak...

Mehr, HOW did you expose to his job? I hope you're not telling him about all of the advice you're getting. Are you? Please don't because it will give him an opportunity to spin things to his version.

Hang in there and know that you have a ton of support from us. If you need to vent come here and do it. (((Mehr))))
Originally Posted by mehr
Yes he knows that I told work, he says he is not looking forward to going to work since people have heard.

mehr, who did you tell there and how did you tell them? Did you officially notify Human Resources and ask them to take action?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 03:52 PM
No I didn't write human resources, I just told some of his coworkers.

He went back to her house last night and is there now. frown
Originally Posted by mehr
No I didn't write human resources, I just told some of his coworkers.

He went back to her house last night and is there now. frown

mehr, when we discuss workplace exposure, we mean official exposure to Human Resources. Telling coworkers will avail you absolutely nothing because they have no power over the affairees.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 03:58 PM
Well.... I am scared to write to human resources.... if he gets fired and then divorces me anyway, I will hurt myself a lot financially. I already will be in poverty and unable to care for the kids.
Sorry, that isn't going to do the job. The co-workers could care less and relying on a rumor mill is risky as the story will fade from memory.

You have to involve his boss and the people that sign his paychecks. You have to involve people that have a vested interest in not getting themselves involved in a sexual harrassment lawsuit or by losing money over ineffective employees.

Write a letter, today, to his boss or human resources or whoever it is. Make sure it is to mulitple people, all the way up the chain.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 04:03 PM
I don't think that whether or not human resources knows is going to effect whether he stays with her...
Originally Posted by mehr
Well.... I am scared to write to human resources.... if he gets fired and then divorces me anyway, I will hurt myself a lot financially. I already will be in poverty and unable to care for the kids.

But he has to leave that job anyways...that's the price he will have to pay for what he did. That's the cost of his affair if he wants to stay married to you. That's his problem, he caused it, not you, ok!

And trust me, the courts will make damn sure that you don't do without if he divorces you. Again, that will be his problem.

See, he has to get out of this job to get away from this OW if you don't want to divorce. How he gets out the job doesn't really matter, because the end-result is the same: He doesn't work there.

And once you're ok with that possibility, and the financial issues that result, you'll see that it doesn't matter how he leaves and that, actually, him getting FIRED makes it easier. That way, you don't have to convince him to get away from the job and OW. Someone else decided that for him, and it'll make contact more difficult.
If he broke things off it would be over?? For the A, or your M? I'm confused. If he is indicating that the M is over if you make him end the A, then you have a pretty clear answer as to what to do. When attempting to end an A, you cannot live in fear that it will end in D. If you do nothing, it will eventually end in D anyway.

You cannot accept the A to continue. He is a serial cheater and you will not accept living under those conditions. My mother divorced my stepfather with 4 kids and no job after years of emotional abuse from him. Guess what? We survived.
Originally Posted by mehr
I don't think that whether or not human resources knows is going to effect whether he stays with her...

You bet it will IF you frame it from the perspective of his having an affair with a co-worker opens up the company to any number of sexual harrassment lawsuits and loss of productivity.

But, no, he does have to decide whether or not to stay with this bimbo. But he needs a little push to get him started...and losing his job will be a good way to start making him see that there are indeed consequences for bad behavior.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
And trust me, the courts will make damn sure that you don't do without if he divorces you. Again, that will be his problem.

I see what you mean about if he gets fired it would be easier.... but what you wrote here is not true. I have already gone to see a lawyer, and I know that there is only so much of his money they will take because they won't leave him unable to support himself. As a stay at home mom with 4 children under 7 I will win every penny besides what they deem "required" to support himself. So if he gets fired and divorces me and can't find another reasonably paying job, ALL of the money that was lost will be money that would have been mine. frown

I wish he hadn't gone back to her house.... I don't know why he is doing this....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Wisertoday
If he broke things off it would be over?? For the A, or your M?

If he broke things off with her, it would be over with her.... she wouldn't take him back...
Originally Posted by Wisertoday
You cannot accept the A to continue. He is a serial cheater and you will not accept living under those conditions. My mother divorced my stepfather with 4 kids and no job after years of emotional abuse from him. Guess what? We survived.


In complete agreement. Doing nothing will get you nowhere.

My WW had to quit her job with OM, period. We immediately we into the red the first month but, guess what, other doors opened and we're still alive.

As long as contact continues at work, the affair will not end. Period. I tried that line of thinking for eight months--fear of the financial impact if she left that job--and it got me nowhere. The affair flourished with no interference from me.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 04:12 PM
If we are going to be together then yes he needs to leave the job. I told him that yesterday and he did not like it. But what I am afraid of is him getting fired and then divorcing me anyway.
Originally Posted by mehr
I don't think that whether or not human resources knows is going to effect whether he stays with her...
Here are your options:

1. Say nothing to anyone: the A will steadily grow and he will very likely leave you.
2. Say something to people who have no power to influence him to end the A: the A will steadily grow and he will very likely leave you.
3. Say a little bit to a few people: Your WH will have ample time to realize that you're starting to spill the beans. He and OW will spin your story to make you out to be a nutjob, and he'll claim he left you because of that.
4. Blow the lid off and tell people in a position to make him uncomfortable by continuing the A: that would include employers, relatives, friends, clergy, etc - anyone he needs to be in good graces with.

Your most powerful target is the employer. Unfortunately, you've already tipped this to his co-workers, so the element of shock will be removed at his job when the you-know-what hits the fan there. But you can still really rock the boat by going to HR, his immediate supervisor and the CEO.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by mehr
I don't think that whether or not human resources knows is going to effect whether he stays with her...
Here are your options:

1. Say nothing to anyone: the A will steadily grow and he will very likely leave you.
2. Say something to people who have no power to influence him to end the A: the A will steadily grow and he will very likely leave you.
3. Say a little bit to a few people: Your WH will have ample time to realize that you're starting to spill the beans. He and OW will spin your story to make you out to be a nutjob, and he'll claim he left you because of that.
4. Blow the lid off and tell people in a position to make him uncomfortable by continuing the A: that would include employers, relatives, friends, clergy, etc - anyone he needs to be in good graces with.

Your most powerful target is the employer. Unfortunately, you've already tipped this to his co-workers, so the element of shock will be removed at his job when the you-know-what hits the fan there. But you can still really rock the boat by going to HR, his immediate supervisor and the CEO.

He's already left me.
Quote
He's already left me.
I mean, as in divorce.
Originally Posted by mehr
He's already left me.

To be with the OW, right? He'll most likely come home once the A is exposed. Things won't be all roses with the OW once their little bubble is busted. The reality of what he's done will start to sink in.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/24/11 04:26 PM
The thing is I have told EVERYONE but human resources. His family knows so he avoids talking to them, he doesn't see anyone else who knows either, except her side of people who sound like low class people who won't care. Yesterday was the first time he's talked to his dad at all. He is definitely uncomfortable because everyone knows....
Hey, mehr, I'm really not trying to come across as a bulldozer with you. I do understand exactly what your saying...just trying to gauge whether you value the marriage or money more.

And that's not said in a judging manner--you may honestly not care about the marriage any longer and are just in survival mode. If that is the case, and you are ok with a divorce, then don't do anything that would alter his ability to pay alimony and child support.

Either way you move is going to result in a difficult situation. Divorce or reconciliation--there is no easy alternative here. It's just the way it happens sometimes and it sucks. But sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils and go with it in the hopes that the end-result will have made it worth the pain.
Northwood has two very rational choices. You will learn that the human spirit is capable of enduring amazing trials and tribulations. My mom raised four kids after her D on $2.90 an hour, and attending nursing school full time. It wasn't easy, but she did it. Your spirit could be as strong as hers, I'm sure.

What you can't do is live in fear of the unknown.
Originally Posted by mehr
He's already left me.


Then you have nothing else to lose right? So do the FULL exposure at work to the HR.
You are sitting here right now and the ONE thing that might get your husband back is to expose both of them to HR, and he is at the OW house probably having sex with her and your worried that he will divorce you??

I would be exposing this to EVERYONE work, HR, OW family and friends etc...
Originally Posted by mehr
He is definitely uncomfortable because everyone knows....
But that's just it - you haven't exposed to the people in a position to pressure him to end the A. His employer is No. 1.

And don't underestimate OW's family - don't assume that they are low-class with no morals. You don't know that. You can never know for sure where you'll get the most support. Cover your bases.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/26/11 11:19 PM
Okay, I am sorry... I did it wrong... I am trying to find out who I should contact within the company... it is a HUGE company... world wide. I am scared.

From surviving an affair, he's totally doing that thing where they committ slightly one way and then the other way. He is just fence sitting. I guess its a good sign that he thinks about his family at all...

A good sign is from his employer when they call both into the boardroom separately and discuss who gets fired.

Until you do that, there's possibly not going to be enough pressure. IT MUST COME from ALL SIDES. That means family, spouse, friends, and of course, WORK.

He must see the only logical choice is to end the affair or face personal ruination. And then and only then can he end the horrible addiction to killing his marriage and family. After all, that is what the affair does.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 03/26/11 11:27 PM
How long does this usually drag on? One day it feels like he is about ready to reconcile and the next he is more distant.
Originally Posted by mehr
How long does this usually drag on? One day it feels like he is about ready to reconcile and the next he is more distant.

Until he hits rock bottom or accepts the ruination that peachy describes:

Originally Posted by peachyisback
He must see the only logical choice is to end the affair or face personal ruination. And then and only then can he end the horrible addiction to killing his marriage and family. After all, that is what the affair does.

For my wife, she sat on the fence for seven or eight months until I had her quit her job where OM worked. That was in January and the withdrawal took about a month and a half. She slowly started coming back into the marriage but was hesitant because, after all, the affair wasn't the real issue. It was all the crap that we'd done to each other over the years. Last Thursday she said she's in 100% and I have no doubt that she means it.

So, for me, it took from January to March 24--but she had quit her job and there was no contact save one email a week later.

You'll know it when you see it. As someone else said, there is one moment, one conversation, where you know you're going to be ok if you can just avoid screwing things up! smile

To get him to hit rock bottom, you're going to have to go completely bat-poop crazy on him with exposure. His world needs to be shaken from the very core in order to make him turn the skank loose. A gentle shake won't do it, it has to be an earthquake.

Posted By: mehr WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/11/11 12:28 PM
This is a fragile situation, and I am super nervous that he will return to her. It came to where my Plan A was working very well and he felt the love for me, and then he missed his kids, and he was coming in and out of the fog from the start but yesterday he finally broke it off with her and brought his stuff home. He says it is over and she will be too mad for there to be anything to ever happen again.... but I know better. I feel like this situation only half died a natural death, despite him choosing me/us he is still not over her. He is sad today. I read here that we are not in recovery until the extraordinary precautions are in place, I agree, and that is what we need to set up. Maybe I shouldn't have let him return until we had them in place, but I felt like even if he goes back this will hurt their relationship (him leaving her) so I did. Any advice?
Originally Posted by mehr
This is a fragile situation, and I am super nervous that he will return to her. It came to where my Plan A was working very well and he felt the love for me, and then he missed his kids, and he was coming in and out of the fog from the start but yesterday he finally broke it off with her and brought his stuff home. He says it is over and she will be too mad for there to be anything to ever happen again.... but I know better. I feel like this situation only half died a natural death, despite him choosing me/us he is still not over her. He is sad today. I read here that we are not in recovery until the extraordinary precautions are in place, I agree, and that is what we need to set up. Maybe I shouldn't have let him return until we had them in place, but I felt like even if he goes back this will hurt their relationship (him leaving her) so I did. Any advice?
mehr, you're going to have to bring us up to speed. Can you go back to your old thread and do that? It's hard to follow posters when they start new threads.

Are they still working together?
Mehr,

It is better to have him home so you can work through all the things you need to work through, you have to set up boundaries he will have to abide by, he will have to be transparent and work together in a good plan to rebuild your marriage.....
You will have to set up those extra ordinary precautions it is going to take, if that means leaving his job he will have to do this, no contact is a must for now, it should be a deal breaker............
listen to the advice the vets will give you, put a plan in order and move towards rebuilding.....
jessi
Originally Posted by mehr
This is a fragile situation, and I am super nervous that he will return to her. It came to where my Plan A was working very well and he felt the love for me, and then he missed his kids, and he was coming in and out of the fog from the start but yesterday he finally broke it off with her and brought his stuff home. He says it is over and she will be too mad for there to be anything to ever happen again.... but I know better. I feel like this situation only half died a natural death, despite him choosing me/us he is still not over her. He is sad today. I read here that we are not in recovery until the extraordinary precautions are in place, I agree, and that is what we need to set up. Maybe I shouldn't have let him return until we had them in place, but I felt like even if he goes back this will hurt their relationship (him leaving her) so I did. Any advice?

Of course this will continue to be a fragile situation because he still works with OW. All of the MBers told you to expose at work and gave you letters, how to make contact etc. Instead you have set yourself up for your WH to continue to the A and still be at home.

It will not die a natural death till he quits or she leaves.

You need to keep your thread as one so people do not have to search for your older posts.
mehr, could you ask the mods to combine your SEVEN threads into one so we can all follow along and we don't waste anyone's time advising the same things you have already been advised or asking you questions that have already been answered. It's a lot easier for us to follow your sitch and advise you more effectively.

I fear that you have set yourself up for a false recovery. I pray that isn't the case, since false recoveries hurt more than the original betrayal.

If your WH EVER has any contact with OW, the affair continues. And remember, waywards LIE.
Mehr, make sure you get access to everything and I mean EVERYTHING. He has to be an open book. He needs to let you know what he is doing at all times so he needs to check in frequently. I have already been in a false recovery and it hurts like heck. Protect yourself, he needs to earn your trust and that takes a long time, so he needs to really work on that. If he is sincere about working on your marriage he will do whatever it takes.

Still hoping and praying.
Originally Posted by mehr
I read here that we are not in recovery until the extraordinary precautions are in place, I agree, and that is what we need to set up. Maybe I shouldn't have let him return until we had them in place, but I felt like even if he goes back this will hurt their relationship (him leaving her) so I did. Any advice?

mehr, did you let him back without a NC letter? Did he switch phones with you and close out any other means of communications he had with OW (such as FB/email)? Will he be transparent (giving you access to all records and accounting for all of his time?)

You can get the other EPs into place later but if he will not do the above then you are on the fast track to a FR...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/12/11 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by mehr
I read here that we are not in recovery until the extraordinary precautions are in place, I agree, and that is what we need to set up. Maybe I shouldn't have let him return until we had them in place, but I felt like even if he goes back this will hurt their relationship (him leaving her) so I did. Any advice?

mehr, did you let him back without a NC letter? Did he switch phones with you and close out any other means of communications he had with OW (such as FB/email)? Will he be transparent (giving you access to all records and accounting for all of his time?)

You can get the other EPs into place later but if he will not do the above then you are on the fast track to a FR...


He wrote a no contact letter but I didn't get to see it. So I'm sure I wouldn't have approved of everything in it. He went with his dad to get his stuff and gave me his phone when he got back and said to delete if she sent anything. She didn't. We changed the phone number on his phone yesterday. He asked me to deactivate his facebook and email, so I did. They do still work together, he goes back to work tomorrow and I am worried about it. The job is a problem. The rest of his time is with us. Everything else is covered.

About the "seven" threads, that was super rude. If you don't want to read this thread, then don't.
Quote
About the "seven" threads, that was super rude. If you don't want to read this thread, then don't.

Bwahahaha...that wasn't RUDE, it's actually rude to have a bunch of threads going ~ it mucks up the board. It's also to your BENEFIT to have only one thread going, you will get more advice because people won't get so frustrated trying to catch up on your threads. It's standard board policy to remind new posters to stick to one thread. It wasn't rude in the least, but your comment was funny so that's good. smile

Re: his job. It's non-negotiable that one of them needs to leave. That should have been one of your criteria in order for him to move back home. I've been through a false recovery and trust me, you don't want that.

One of them is going to have to leave the job. If POSOW won't, then your H will have to. NON-NEGOTIABLE.
Originally Posted by mehr
About the "seven" threads, that was super rude. If you don't want to read this thread, then don't.

My feeling is that when you are new in a new culture, the culture tells you what is rude, rather than you being the one to tell them they are rude. Different cultures have different standards. Most message boards I've been on, posters may start up lots of different threads. The culture here is different. The culture here is also OLDER, WISER, and more HELPFUL.
Originally Posted by mehr
They do still work together, he goes back to work tomorrow and I am worried about it. The job is a problem. The rest of his time is with us. Everything else is covered.

This is a good example of why it is BEST to stick to one thread. If I had gone back to read your first few posts and seen this was a workplace A, my advice would have been different.

One of them needs to leave the job, period. The NCL and other EPs are basically meaningless if they are seeing each other at work. The addictive thoughts and feelings are triggered and your H's w/d clock gets set back to Day 1, each time = NO RECOVERY is POSSIBLE.
Mehr, just ask the mods to merge your threads hon. It just makes it easier for people to help you. No offense was intended. We're rooting for you and your marriage! smile
I have no idea if you have been given this info in your other threads so just in case you haven't, please read:
Read my lips: No Contact means No Contact
Originally Posted by mehr
About the "seven" threads, that was super rude. If you don't want to read this thread, then don't.

WoW !

Best of luck to ya !
mehr.....rudeness is the least of your issues here! You must talk to your H about his work. How is he going to find a new job quick.
You will be lucky if he agrees to get another one somewhere else and you can stay in the same home.
You might need to move far to work on the marriage. Some married couples do that in order to have a chance to save their marriage and the family unit.
That your WH did not let you see the letter speaks volumes here. He is NOT serious about protecting you and the marriage. He is still cake eating. He is.
I am afraid this is just round one.
Hope not but be prepared.
Hey mehr,

The reasoning behind a single thread is so that people can remember your story. It's nothing insidious, just something for your benefit so that folks don't forget about you.

...unless you want us to forget about you, but then you wouldn't bother posting. confused

Otherwise, people don't remember what your story is and move on. Too, people won't get those nice email responses when a new post is added to your (old, unused) thread and assume that there is no news on your front.

So, if you want to bounce ideas off others, it's nice to stick to a single thread. The moderators can help you out with that.

Take care. Oh, and Scotland wasn't trying to be rude to you. Quite the contrary--she was trying to help you out. Ok?

Originally Posted by mehr
We changed the phone number on his phone yesterday. He asked me to deactivate his facebook and email, so I did. They do still work together, he goes back to work tomorrow and I am worried about it. The job is a problem.

You're off to a good start, but, yeah, that work thing is going to trump everything else. You already sense that, I imagine.

Quote
About the "seven" threads, that was super rude. If you don't want to read this thread, then don't.

Thank you.

I won't stay off of your thread if I feel I have relevant MB advice to give you. One day, you may even thank me, or you won't. Either way, I will be helping you try to get your marriage on track and helping other lurkers who are too afraid to post.

So, number one thing you need to do is get your WH to agree to leaving his job. That should have happened before he was allowed to move back in, but since he has already moved back in, you just need to get him to agree to it now. If he doesn't, would you be willing to go into Plan B?

Don't set the bar for recovery low. You will be risking your marriage and your own happiness and sanity if you do.
Originally Posted by Scotland
[quote]About the "seven" threads, that was super rude. If you don't want to read this thread, then don't.

Mehr, sometimes people start many threads because they are not aware how the board works. Sometimes people start another thread because of the possibility of the WS reading their thread and protect themselves.

Then there are some who start different threads because they don't agree with advice given and then stop posting and then start another thread when the next "crisis" happens hoping for "new advice".

You received so much great advice and refused to listen or believe in it. If you exposed you would not have to worry about the job situation.

I hope that you fall under the first 2 categories. Please listen to these good folks here. They know.
Mehr,

Good to know he's coming home, bad to know he's still working eight or more long hours of the day in close proximity to the posow.

And I wish and want the best and a great recovery for your M, but hope that my words dig in the back of your subconscious to the point that you see it is imperative that you expose this affair to the powers that be at work and end this destructive affair now and forever.

Seeing the ow at work is like dangling crack every day in front of a crackhead. One day he'll lower his boundaries and the affair will resume. It's not if, it IS WHEN.

Alot can happen in eight hours, or even in 30 minutes or a lunch hour if you know what i mean.

I would imagine it would be difficult to go to work WITH him, sit by him all day, and be his chaperone, so the smarter thing to do to prevent the affair from resuming is to make sure one or both parties associated with the affair are terminated and forever gone from the workplace.

My answer with regard to this situation will always be the same. Unless the affair has harsh, harsh consequences, like earning ability and the ability to pay for a mortgage, for kids, for family, then the affair and the marriage will both limp along until a divorce happens.

Please read up on the concept at MB of what is called extraordinary precautions. These are barriers you and your spouse put in place together as a team, to ensure that the chances of an affair ever resuming are little to zero. It has to be done and followed, especially since your husband is quite affair-fogged still and quite susceptible to falling back into the role of being like a crackhead junkie with the ow.

Originally Posted by peachyisback
Seeing the ow at work is like dangling crack every day in front of a crackhead. One day he'll lower his boundaries and the affair will resume. It's not if, it IS WHEN.

Agreed 100%. At first, I didn't expose and tried to let my wife end her affair with her co-worker on her own timing. After a "heart to heart", she made it about a week after "ending it" before resuming the affair with her co-worker. Trouble is, it took me another two months to figure it out because she/they had learned how to go even further underground.

She said she could handle it, it was over, and we needed the money. Trust her, she said. Without a doubt, it was the dumbest thing I ever believed. She just wasn't strong enough (no boundaries) and I sure as hell didn't make that mistake again.

Don't you do it either, ok?







here's another scenario that us, as women might understand.

Let's pretend you work in a shoe department at a high end department store and every day you go into work, you are confronted with a pair of gorgeous heels that you just lust after.

You don't actually buy the shoes, but each day entering work, you get secretly happy when you see those shoes. You think how great they'd look with an outfit, and you imagine wearing them.

It is only a matter of time that you use your employee discount to toss aside all your week's earnings as one day you're going to go and in a fit of shopping lust, purchase the shoes.

You are tempted by what you see each day. Kinda like the line from "Silence of the Lambs" when Jodie Foster figures out the motive of the killer and why he killed. He coveted what he saw EACH DAY.

And each day, for eight hours, and maybe during a long lunch hour, they will be in close proximity. One day he might want to have a "goodbye talk" with her over that lunch hour. It might even be with him wanting to really have an ending talk. But it might end differently, with them having a nooner instead. He will see her. He will remember what they have physically done together. She will see him and she will remember. She, the OW WILL COVET what she sees EVERY DAY AT WORK and Mehr, that would be YOUR HUSBAND.

Do you wish this to continue? Can you survive under this type of emotional pain each day? For each day you let this affair go on at work, it is like death by 1,0000 paper cuts. Each day as you kiss him and send him off to work, it will hurt. You will feel and know SHE is there. And you will imagine things like I wrote to you, and you will worry and experience sadness in silence.

Unless you choose to stand up and confront the affair at the heart of it, the workplace. Where they met.

You can do it.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/14/11 08:37 PM
I didn't get the latest replies until today, but I did get the ones from the first day after I made this, and I believed you that we are not in recovery until the job was gone and we were talking about him quitting the job today. But he just kept laying in our bed, clearly in a bad withdrawl. He left midday today to run an errand to his mom's house and sent a text message saying He is sorry for hurting me but he has to be with her.

So, he is gone again. I know that he loves me but she is newer and his feelings for her are more passionate. I am going Plan B now, he has had enough cake eating and his last memories of me will be positive and of me being very understanding about him being sad, and of me being encouraging and loving.

When he was with her, he missed us and loved us. But when he came home all he could think about was her and how happy he was with her.

I am just hurting and don't have the energy to do anything else. I have to figure out how to get a job with 4 small children, stuff like that....
[[[[mehr]]]]]]


Please put all of your focus into a dark Plan B. As you said, he is accustomed to cake-eating so it is just a matter of time before he comes to you for his "fix".

Do you have an IM? Has that IM read the training manual here on MB? Have you blocked all of the ways that he may try to contact you?
Curiosity did you ever expose the affair to workplace and friends? I believe in MB principles but the exposure thing I am having second thoughts..I feel in my case it brought her and OM closer...whereas before she was nice and empathetic kind of toward what I was feeling, it was completely gone after that...exposure drove her to file for divorce and experience hatred for me...that continues 3 months out..the workplace exposure is all she focuses on really
Here, read THIS on how to Plan B correctly.

Don't worry about finances right now, put it in your addendum that he is still responsible for finances, even though he will not be living at home.

I also suggest you re-expose (assuming you exposed in the past), nuclearly this time.

You need to expose to their work, his family, her family and all of their friends.

This is exactly why they cannot work together. Put it in your PBL that you will not even consider recovery unless he quits his job (or she does).

(((hugs)))

I went through a FR too and I also had 4 young children. You will be ok, but please listen to the advice here. You can get into a dark Plan B quickly but you need to focus and work hard.

Are you good at following a plan?
mehr, don't just pop in and give updates. OK?

MF has been where you are and KNOWS what she is talking about! Open up a dialogue with her and let her help you! You are going to need a ton of support...

Hang in there!!
Mehr,

You started off great here at MB, but fell short in executing the proper plan A which calls for nuclear exposure EVEN IN THE WORKPLACE.

And that is why he's off again to teeter totter, do the emotional see saw back and forth to the posow yet again.

YOU have to KILL the affair. YOU MUST expose them AT WORK or this will do nothing but emotionally kill YOU by 1,000 paper cuts until you wave the white flag, surrender to the evil affair, and give the s*utty ow what she wants (to destroy your marriage and the lives of you and your little kids).

There has to be no safe zone for your wh and the ow now. Work CANNOT BE A SAFE ZONE. That is why the heat of exposure must be lit! Light the fires n kick the tires! Time to let the human resources office, all the coworkers, and even the prez or ceo of the company KNOW THEY HAVE TWO POTENTIAL LAWSUITS on their hands and two ticking time bombs. Plus it's damn immoral at the center of everything.

Get started reading the link that MF gave you to learning what the best plan B can be and get the paper and ink (and favorite perfume. Something I did to my plan B letter to trigger a memory and an attachment to me even though I was gone..and it worked).

Your kids depend on you to go to WAR against this affair 100 percent! Not 80%. Not 90%. Not even 99%. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT WAR.

No skirting the whole MB plan anymore Mehr. It's time to WORK THE PLAN that WORKS!
His going back is normal! Its in the book Surviving An Affair.
Sue goes back after initially coming home.
Go dark to plan B for him and stay dark and firm and have some hope though you move forward without him at least for the forseeable future.

Now, OW will have to meet all his needs. Ha! She can not (unless she is unique and I am betting she is not!)
I mean DARKER THAN DARK plan B. And you have to expose. Make it tough to have their little "lurve cocoon" at work, their "rutting lair" and make that place a PLACE OF TORTUROUS STRESS where their neighbors and bosses put them under the scrutiny of being like a microbe under an electron microscope because everybody WILL KNOW THEY ARE HAVING A SLEAZY AFFAIR.

You gotta take out the comfort zone of work and the core of where the affair began.

He has to know he can't come home and eat a good meal or hug the kids and put them to zzz at night. He has to know that Mehr will not be there to have a delightful conversation with him each night or feel the love of affection after he comes home from work. No sleeping in on saturdays with Mehr and have the kids come running into the room jumping on the bed.

Nope. It will all be gone and he will SEE what a BLEAK AND DISMAL future it will be with his skanky rutting partner, the posow, a woman who DOES NOT LOVE YOUR KIDS, just loves wanting to steal your home, your money, and maybe your husband. Trust me, the ow NEVER really wants the kids.
((((mehr))))

Sorry this has happened to you. Take a moment and breathe. Do you have your Plan B all planned out? Is there anything we can help you figure out? You CAN do this.

You are going to prepare yourself for a dark as night Plan B and you will execute it perfectly. Then, in a short time, you will start to feel better. I can PROMISE you that as long as you stick to MB and execute it as best as you can, you WILL be better.
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He left midday today to run an errand to his mom's house and sent a text message saying He is sorry for hurting me but he has to be with her.
mehr, did you expose this?
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
mehr, did you expose this?

Don't believe she told her husband/OW's employer...yet?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/15/11 02:31 AM
I was somewhat prepared for this. I told one of my friends on Sunday night that if he does go back to her, hopefully it at least damages their "magical" relationship. She seems to think they have a future together.... together forever... so that is why I allowed it despite him not having left the workplace. NOW I will not allow him to return without leaving the job first.

I did read Surviving an Affair... more than once. I already had my Plan B letter written and was going to give it to him when he left to go back to her place on Sunday. It felt like time. I had already talked to my in laws about being the intermediary and dropping the kids at their place when he asks to see them. Instead that day he and his dad went and got his stuff and came back here. He is a huge cake eater. He's gone back and forth between us all month, OW has no idea about the cake eating.

Once he was here, it was clear that I was not going to tolerate contact with her and he struggled with withdrawl. He was very genuine in his effort I believe, changing his phone and all, but he got weak.

I am reading that thread about doing Plan B right.

I said in my last thread, some of the people at his job know. I just can't expose with the letter because I don't believe it would do good. I guess I'll have to live with that choice if this goes to divorce.... I think I can. It is a huge workplace and I don't think that either of them would get fired. I talked to someone that I know that works there about this.

Thanks for the support... sorry about all the threads.
Well, if you ever want a real chance at recovery, that job needs to go FIRST. So, next time, he doesn't even speak to you while he is still working there. I think it is a mistake not to tell the workplace, and I hope you aren't going to take any further short cuts with the MB plans. This is all or nothing to be its most effective. Half azzing it will get you half azzed results(if that). Don't be one of those people who look back and say, "If only."

Also, having your ILs as IMs is a BAD BAD idea. I dunno if they would work out well as a drop off place either, but you need to find yourself someone else as an IM.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/15/11 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Well, if you ever want a real chance at recovery, that job needs to go FIRST. So, next time, he doesn't even speak to you while he is still working there. I think it is a mistake not to tell the workplace, and I hope you aren't going to take any further short cuts with the MB plans. This is all or nothing to be its most effective. Half azzing it will get you half azzed results(if that). Don't be one of those people who look back and say, "If only."

Also, having your ILs as IMs is a BAD BAD idea. I dunno if they would work out well as a drop off place either, but you need to find yourself someone else as an IM.

I agree, the job will need to be gone before I will speak to him about restoration.


I was just reading that in laws are bad IM's.... having trouble figuring out someone else... I don't want him in our home, and I don't want to drop the kids off at HER place.... thinking.
In Plan B, he can NOT be in your home and you would NOT go to her place, EVER.

As far as your IM, do you have any friend who can help you? She needs to remain neutral. I first used a couple who are friends to BOTH WH and I. It didn't work out because it was emailing and they lost internet. Then I used a friend of mine, who has no love lost with WH and she is really STRONG, and that didn't work. My current IM is golden and I am glad to have the peace of mind knowing she is taking care of it for me.

Rack your brains, think think think. Who could you use?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/15/11 03:28 AM
What would happen if instead of using my friend the IM, he sent msgs through his parents anyway? I have a friend in mind but if I were to guess, he'd send msgs through his parents anyway... might be worth a try though
Your WH will NOT like using the IM especially in the beginning...he may even freak out...so whoever you chose will have to be able to remain calm, neutral and be a good filter.

Please have them read this: LINK
Originally Posted by mehr
So, he is gone again. I know that he loves me but she is newer and his feelings for her are more passionate. I am going Plan B now, he has had enough cake eating and his last memories of me will be positive and of me being very understanding about him being sad, and of me being encouraging and loving.

When he was with her, he missed us and loved us. But when he came home all he could think about was her and how happy he was with her.

I am just hurting and don't have the energy to do anything else. I have to figure out how to get a job with 4 small children, stuff like that....

The job is what is sealing the 2 of them together. I know this stuff is hard - - I lived through this also.

It concerns me that you will try and find a job with 4 children but you can't expose at work.

Do the Plan B, send him a letter with everything spelled out but understand as long as he is working with her the addiction is there. You need to blow this out of the water. Who cares what he thinks, she thinks, FIL anyone. You are trying to save your M. Don't tell him -- just do
Originally Posted by mehr
I agree, the job will need to be gone before I will speak to him about restoration.

Then, if his job must go before you even consider taking him back, then there's no reason not to expose to his workplace.

Not following your logic here...you stand a good chance of actually speeding up this process by exposing to his employer.
Originally Posted by mehr
I said in my last thread, some of the people at his job know. I just can't expose with the letter because I don't believe it would do good. I guess I'll have to live with that choice if this goes to divorce.... I think I can. It is a huge workplace and I don't think that either of them would get fired. I talked to someone that I know that works there about this.

mehr, your best shot is sending the letter and I would also re-expose the A all around letting folks know that your H has abandoned you and the kids for OW. Did you expose to the OW's folks, etc?

Even if they aren't fired, it DOES make an impact knowing that they have been exposed. My sister's H had a workplace A and she sent the letters and did a NUCLEAR exposure, including to their mutual FB friends and OW's relatives on FB. An investigation was done and it was documented, they weren't fired but it did KILL the A!

Please rethink your strategy here.
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I was somewhat prepared for this. I told one of my friends on Sunday night that if he does go back to her, hopefully it at least damages their "magical" relationship. She seems to think they have a future together.... together forever... so that is why I allowed it despite him not having left the workplace. NOW I will not allow him to return without leaving the job first.
I'm sorry to hear that he's gone back to OW, mehr. But not surprised. You have been selective about listening to the posters here. That's not unusual. Quite a few betrayeds don't get the concept of exposure because it sounds disloyal to their spouse, or they're afraid the spouse will get mad/fired, etc. That's when they start figuring out how to cut that part of the process out.

The problem is that they give up on their main opportunity to separate the affairees when they decide that their situation is an exception to the rule.

If you don't wish to expose that's up to you. But please, please consider following the advice given to you about Plan B!
Okay, Mehr. You cut corners on exposure and now you are trying to cut corners on Plan B. When you decide that you want to follow MB advice and actually do ALL of it, instead of picking things you like, like you are picking items off of a menu at a restaurant, you will see a real difference. What is your goal here? An amicable D, or a real chance to save your marriage? It's your life, so it's your choice. I hope you make the right one.
Hi Mehr,

Okay now is the time to go dark and really make him live his life without you in it.....this is the only way he will figure out which relationship is more important, the best way to have him really figure out the OW is to have him live the life with her, let her fill all his needs, watch how quickly she will disappoint him.......Don't worry about the finances he can't just leave you high and dry the courts will not allow this..........
let him take the kids, let the OW feel like what life will be like with 4 kids along with your husband.......maybe not something she really planned on.
Don't fill any of his needs, none, go dark, no contact........send him that Plan B letter, get an IM so the transfer of the kids can happen without you having to see him.............
Let it play out, work on yourself and make sure you do not take him back while he is still in contact with the OW any longer......
Stand up for yourself, be strong, you deserve to be respected not disrespected.......being firm on your boundaries it's the only way it works.........
jessi
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/15/11 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Okay, Mehr. You cut corners on exposure and now you are trying to cut corners on Plan B. When you decide that you want to follow MB advice and actually do ALL of it, instead of picking things you like, like you are picking items off of a menu at a restaurant, you will see a real difference. What is your goal here? An amicable D, or a real chance to save your marriage? It's your life, so it's your choice. I hope you make the right one.

How am I cutting corners on Plan B? I am not trying to.

Yes I did expose to her family/friends, etc.

About the job... suppose I send that letter.... trying to work the nerve.... where is that pesky form letter... I had it written up before.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/15/11 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by jessitaylor
Hi Mehr,

Okay now is the time to go dark and really make him live his life without you in it.....this is the only way he will figure out which relationship is more important, the best way to have him really figure out the OW is to have him live the life with her, let her fill all his needs, watch how quickly she will disappoint him.......Don't worry about the finances he can't just leave you high and dry the courts will not allow this..........
let him take the kids, let the OW feel like what life will be like with 4 kids along with your husband.......maybe not something she really planned on.
Don't fill any of his needs, none, go dark, no contact........send him that Plan B letter, get an IM so the transfer of the kids can happen without you having to see him.............
Let it play out, work on yourself and make sure you do not take him back while he is still in contact with the OW any longer......
Stand up for yourself, be strong, you deserve to be respected not disrespected.......being firm on your boundaries it's the only way it works.........
jessi

I am doing all of this... definitely. I was afraid he would come back for his stuff so I gave it to his parents and they said they would let him know they have it. That way he has no excuse to stop by our house.
good job
be strong dont give in................a good plan gets good results.
jessi
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Maybe I shouldn't have let him return until we had them in place, but I felt like even if he goes back this will hurt their relationship (him leaving her) so I did. Any advice?
Now you're seeing the results of not following a plan. He returned home to the same situation. You set the bar so low that he didn't have to do anything but continue as normal.

Do you understand that Plan B is to protect YOU? It is to protect any love that you have left for him.

Here's Dr. Harley on Plan A & Plan B (bold emphasis mine):
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Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.


You can read more about it here.
Re-exposing is crucial here ~ I would expose again and DEFINITELY to the workplace. That's really non-negotiable. That could very easily be the final nail in the coffin for the A.

Even if they don't get fired they will be humiliated in front of their co-workers, everyone will know what a homewrecker the OW is and the female co-workers will want to keep her away from their husbands and the male co-workers will see her as a snake. Your H will be seen as a scumbag.

These are CONSEQUENCES of their A. They SHOULD be ashamed and humiliated and trust me ~ when their co-workers find out and your H and the OW see the disgust in their faces when the truth comes out, that alone could very easily kill the A.

That is how my H's A died, the day I exposed.
Do you see what not exposing the workplace did?

It allowed them to carry on their A. No one there knew (or not nearly enough people) and they felt "safe" to carry the A on.

You said you know he loves you...but that the addiction is too strong. Think of your H as an alcoholic ~ if he was trying to get clean, would you let him go to a bar? Of course not.

Posted By: mason Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/15/11 03:07 PM
Please expose at work... it did not break up my husbands affair, but they were investigated and embarrassed. I do not regret it. My husband too, tried to reconcile, 3 wks later he said he wanted a divorce. I had no boundaries. Then Go to Plan B immediatly. I have not spoken or seen my husband since he told me he wanted a divorce. Get in control and Plan B is the only way.
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How am I cutting corners on Plan B? I am not trying to.

Yes I did expose to her family/friends, etc.

About the job... suppose I send that letter.... trying to work the nerve.... where is that pesky form letter... I had it written up before.
Okay, hang on a second, mehr. Get yourself pulled together, here. You're trying to do everything all at once now. Form a PLAN. What is your PLAN?

How did you expose to her family and friends? Who actually knows? Her parents? What was the response to your exposure?



Mehr, the way I see you cutting corners is by still trying to use your In-laws as your IMs. You have seen and read that that is a BAD BAD idea. We told you that you needed to expose to the workplace, and you decided it wasn't for you, even though you were told it was part of the plans. Now, we are telling you to find someone else. You need to find someone else to be your IM.

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A sample exposure letter, written by Brit's Brat, a MB member and corporate attorney:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS

hope this helps and I hope you go through with exposure at the workplace. It IS important.
It's time to either roll over Mehr and let the skanky immoral ow come into your house. Why not go give her your house key? And remind the kids to be nice and polite to her too, since you're NOT ENDING THIS AFFAIR by EXPOSING it to the utmost of your ability.

Either you roll over Mehr, going "paws up" or else you stand up as a woman and mother and fight this with every bit of energy you have.

Also a bit of legalese to you too...DO NOT GO GET A JOB. Why? You need to be seen LEGALLY AS A FULL TIME STAY AT HOME MOM. For the calculation of 1)child support and 2)for securing FULL CUSTODY of your children.

If you should have to file legal separation paperwork, you need to be able to prove those two things for honestly, a settlement to go your way.

Trust me, my xh tried to get me to go to work for quite a while as our son was very young.

Mehr, child support is calculated on incomes. He pays less if you earn more. Get it?

DO NOT GO GET A JOB. If you're hurting for money, realize this jacka@s of a man, is FINANCING AN AFFAIR too, and that is expensive. YOU make him pay if things are getting tought $-wise.

Now expose at work or this will be in the end a divorce, rather than a dark plan B and possibly separation.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 01:49 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
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How am I cutting corners on Plan B? I am not trying to.

Yes I did expose to her family/friends, etc.

About the job... suppose I send that letter.... trying to work the nerve.... where is that pesky form letter... I had it written up before.
Okay, hang on a second, mehr. Get yourself pulled together, here. You're trying to do everything all at once now. Form a PLAN. What is your PLAN?

How did you expose to her family and friends? Who actually knows? Her parents? What was the response to your exposure?

Ok. I am going to expose to the work place. That really scares me and I don't know why. I am going to ask one of my other friends to be the IM... but I can still use IL's house as a place for him to visit them right? Because I don't want him in our house or he might sneak marital property.

How did I expose... well I called people the night I found out. Lots of people. His family knows, our friends, my family, our pastor. Then I came on here and you guys said to also tell HER people. So I did that through facebook messages.... I did research, found out who her mama is wink and her brother and her brother's wife, etc. and I gave them a version of the form letter you guys gave me.

The response... his family is trying to get us back together... everyone in our circle is not okay with this.... her circle though, sounds like trailer trash. So they are okay with it. Though i heard that her brother was mad at first at the OW, but then became mad at me (I presume after she gave her version of the story)... a couple people wrote back and said "Not my business." So the rocks they can hide under are all in her circle because his family won't tolerate it.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 01:52 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
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Maybe I shouldn't have let him return until we had them in place, but I felt like even if he goes back this will hurt their relationship (him leaving her) so I did. Any advice?
Now you're seeing the results of not following a plan. He returned home to the same situation. You set the bar so low that he didn't have to do anything but continue as normal.

You know, I don't think I can agree with this... because in Surviving an Affair Sue asked to return home once and Jon accepted... I do see what you are saying, but Dr. harley didn't tell Jon not to accept...

I think doing it a second time would be extremely stupid though. The job would have to be gone...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 01:59 AM
I'm sorry I lost it, does anyone have a copy of that form letter for exposing to work?
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You know, I don't think I can agree with this...
And you think doing it your way is working?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 02:02 AM
I am too beat up for this... just beat me up some more... this site is so harsh frown
Scotty posted the BritsBrats letter for you, scroll up.

mehr, don't despair. Fight, OK? Use all the tools you've got. Expose and then do the best Plan B you can. Yes, you are going to get some 2x4s but you are ALSO getting tons of great advice and support.

Hang in there.
Originally Posted by mehr
I am too beat up for this... just beat me up some more... this site is so harsh frown
Oh, mehr, honey! Please don't bail now! And please don't think we're being harsh! We've been where you are! Please, please will you let us help you?? Don't leave here, sister! We want to help you save your marriage!

Please, please expose.

mehr hug
Look, I had to get some 2 x 4's also Mehr.

Your have four little reasons why you need to try and try with all your might. We care believe it or not and we don't know you.

It's not harsh. It's trying to get you to kill the affair and the safe zone is at work right? It can no longer be their comfort zone. We're pulling for you, but you kept saving the one place, their affair spawning nest, the office, as a place that so far, has been EXPOSURE FREE.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 03:00 AM
I see the letter.... I am typing one up.... I tried to do research though and could only find HUGE big wigs in the company...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 03:02 AM
Do I have to ask them to call me... lol.... I think I am going to pass out in fear....
Originally Posted by mehr
I see the letter.... I am typing one up.... I tried to do research though and could only find HUGE big wigs in the company...
I remember the site, mehr - did you manage to narrow it down to a more local exposure? You figured out the right departments?

You can do this, sweetie!

Sincerly yours,
A fellow poster WHOSE HUSBAND'S AFFAIR ENDED THE DAY THE OWH EXPOSED THEM AT WORK.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 03:36 AM
No I haven't narrowed it down. I think I will use the compliance and ethics guys and the human resources guy. Whoever is in charge of the general area that they work in would be nice... but I don't know who he is...
DEFINITELY use the Ethics & Compliance guy. I am that in my company and assure you that it is part of my job to make sure these types of things are investigated when the come to our attention.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 04:01 AM
So my friends said basically no to being the intermediary... they think no contact is a good idea but I should use the in laws... but that isn't going to work and that is already obvious. I had explained this no contact thing to them. I was asking if they could watch the kids for a bit on Monday, and MIL says "Did you ask WH?" Ummmm...

Also if I expose to what is WH/FIL's work place, I think I can count them as lost friends.

Not sure who to ask next, most of my/our closest friends are relatives... brothers, sisters, parents...
Posted By: weolm Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/16/11 04:50 AM
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
DEFINITELY use the Ethics & Compliance guy. I am that in my company and assure you that it is part of my job to make sure these types of things are investigated when the come to our attention.

In your experience, if the exposure letter is found to be true by corporate investigation, what are the results. Is it always termination, a stern warning, etc.? I know every company is different, but is there some sort of generalization?

My WW works for a Fortune 100 company with 40K employees, so I would assume that they don't need the hassle and relieve her of her duties. Or must the company find hard evidence of company resources being used, even if they know the affair has occurred?
Originally Posted by mehr
Not sure who to ask next, most of my/our closest friends are relatives... brothers, sisters, parents...

Do you have any relatives nearby?

Oh, and screw what your in-laws say or think about you exposing to your husband's employer. If they haven't come down on their son like a ton of bricks for this, then they aren't friends of the marriage and you should keep them at arms length. Remain civil for the grandkids, but just know who your real friends are.

Just my opinion, but if someone stays silent and doesn't openly condemn bad behavior, then that person is just as guilty as the person that openly supported bad behavior.
weolm,

What an employer does depends on that specific employer, their company policies and the circumstances. I work for an EXTREMELY large Fortune 100 company (130,000 employees). In my company, because of the way our company policies are written, the affair must somehow affect the workplace before action will be taken. Just the existence of an affair is not enough. So, for example, if the affair partners work in a supervisor/subordinate relationship, we would likely rearrange the work relationship so the one no longer reports to the other. If the affair partners are using company resources to further their affair (e.g., company cell phones, travel, expense accounts) more serious discipline up to and including discharge would be considered.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/18/11 11:21 PM
I sent the letter today to just the two people, hope it is enough. I did say how it was affecting their job, I know they have both made mistakes because of the distraction, and that they spend time chatting on the clock. I mentioned both. We will see. It was very scary to send.

Today my in laws told me that WH wants to see the kids on his next days off at their house. It made me cry. I know its good he wants to see them, but just the whole.... him moving on in his life, being with her and being okay with not being in contact with me ... it feels a lot like divorce. I am so sad, I don't want this for the kids and I miss him.

my in laws are terrible intermediaries but I am having trouble finding another. My parents are not geographically close enough to be doable.
I think you need an IM who only does the communication aspect of the whole thing and maybe use the in-laws as a drop off point.

I am always unsure if my advise is sound, but if I had no one local to screen my e-mails etc, then I would go to whoever would be good. I have read so many stories where this was an issue.

I have thought about this question, but never had to do it.

Hang in there OK, I feel so bad for you. I am so sorry you are going through this.

HU
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/18/11 11:56 PM
Well here's a real problem I can't figure out. WH has an unusual schedule because of where he works, and so he wants to see them Thursday and/or Friday.... while the in laws work.... so I will have to drop them off in his presense... I have no idea how to manage this with Plan B.... He works over the weekend when other people have off....
Great job on the exposure to the workplace. So is the exposure complete now?

Originally Posted by mehr
so I will have to drop them off in his presense... I have no idea how to manage this with Plan B....

How old are your kids? Can he come to the house, stay in his car and they walk out themselves?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 12:28 AM
Kids are 6, 4, 3, 1 ... and no because I have the van and they can't all fit into his car...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 12:29 AM
Oh and yes, that should complete the exposure.
What kind of car does he have? Maybe he should have thought about seeing his kids before he left them.

I think I would be so angry I would let HIM figure out how he plans on seeing his kids, not your problem.

Do not make this easy on him, this was his choice, not yours!

HU
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 12:57 AM
Yeah, I've thought about that, but how would we afford all new carseats? Ugh-- we have no money because he is spending it all eating at fast food restaurants with HER. Apparently neither of them can cook.

In some ways Plan A was easier for me than Plan B. With Plan A I could see the constant waffling... one day "I miss you, I love you" ... then cold and distant... I had something to do, like a job.... with Plan B I just wait and I have NO IDEA what is going on. For all I know he's having a blast with her and he's glad I finally went away. frown
He must finance his KIDS before his AFFAIR. That is part of plan B. If he will not pay for his children, then the law will make him.

You must make things extremely difficult for him and for the affair.

Tough tacos if this guy spends all the family money eating out. His KIDS and his WIFE have to eat too, you know?

Plan B is good. It will make him miss home and the kids and you. It makes the posow 100 percent in the situation to have to make him happy and fill all his EN's. Trust me, if he was waffling at all, he will be making huge giant waffles in the next few weeks!

The ow cannot fill that goal, thus if the grandparents are horrible IM's (sounds like they are borderline enablers of your wh and his affair) then they cannot be used. Their house is not your waywards' safe zone for his seeing his kids.

You need to also make sure the grandparents KNOW and will not ENABLE your wh in allowing the posow around the kids at all at their home.
Oh Mehr,

My heart breaks for you. Did you say your family does not live close?

I can't imagine being at home with 4 little ones, changing diapers and feeding mouths. You really need some time to just have some down time.

Maybe someone will come on with an answer for you. I am really stumped.

HU
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
He must finance his KIDS before his AFFAIR. That is part of plan B. If he will not pay for his children, then the law will make him.

You must make things extremely difficult for him and for the affair.

Tough tacos if this guy spends all the family money eating out. His KIDS and his WIFE have to eat too, you know?

Plan B is good. It will make him miss home and the kids and you. It makes the posow 100 percent in the situation to have to make him happy and fill all his EN's. Trust me, if he was waffling at all, he will be making huge giant waffles in the next few weeks!

The ow cannot fill that goal, thus if the grandparents are horrible IM's (sounds like they are borderline enablers of your wh and his affair) then they cannot be used. Their house is not your waywards' safe zone for his seeing his kids.

You need to also make sure the grandparents KNOW and will not ENABLE your wh in allowing the posow around the kids at all at their home.

He definitely was waffling all the time, its why he came home.... but then once home I was not tolerating him to have both of us, so he went back.

I am paying bills and getting groceries and stuff on the day he gets paid, get the mnoey before he spends it. There still isn't enough for new carseats. I also called and reported the credit card lost or stolen so that he can't run up any more debt... only a couple hundred, but I could see he was not getting that we don't have the money.

Its so hard not to see any waffling. I worry he really doesn't miss me. I don't think I have been so insecure before!

i have determined that she snuck in and stole his intimate conversation need with her midnight chats when they got off work... affection/sex followed that, I need an STD test because there was cross over (sigh)... and even when the cat was out of the bag he couldn't stay away from me... every time he visited he would say "You are so hot. Man you look good. People would say I am crazy if they saw the two of you."

So... need I am currently meeting (or was the day I went Plan B)... domestic support and/or family committment... physical attractiveness... and in his words (stupid wayward), sexually "so many more possibilities with you" (I guess because I am thin and she is not) .... soooooo whatever the heck that means...

edit to add: Forgot about recreational companionship. He had that with me until he moved out and then she took that place, although in Plan A he was getting it both places. In his words... referring to his affair... "We just have fun together." Grr.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by peachyisback
He must finance his KIDS before his AFFAIR. That is part of plan B. If he will not pay for his children, then the law will make him.

You must make things extremely difficult for him and for the affair.

Tough tacos if this guy spends all the family money eating out. His KIDS and his WIFE have to eat too, you know?

Plan B is good. It will make him miss home and the kids and you. It makes the posow 100 percent in the situation to have to make him happy and fill all his EN's. Trust me, if he was waffling at all, he will be making huge giant waffles in the next few weeks!

The ow cannot fill that goal, thus if the grandparents are horrible IM's (sounds like they are borderline enablers of your wh and his affair) then they cannot be used. Their house is not your waywards' safe zone for his seeing his kids.

You need to also make sure the grandparents KNOW and will not ENABLE your wh in allowing the posow around the kids at all at their home.

He definitely was waffling all the time, its why he came home.... but then once home I was not tolerating him to have both of us, so he went back.

I am paying bills and getting groceries and stuff on the day he gets paid, get the mnoey before he spends it. There still isn't enough for new carseats. I also called and reported the credit card lost or stolen so that he can't run up any more debt... only a couple hundred, but I could see he was not getting that we don't have the money.

Its so hard not to see any waffling. I worry he really doesn't miss me. I don't think I have been so insecure before!

i have determined that she snuck in and stole his intimate conversation need with her midnight chats when they got off work... affection/sex followed that, I need an STD test because there was cross over (sigh)... and even when the cat was out of the bag he couldn't stay away from me... every time he visited he would say "You are so hot. Man you look good. People would say I am crazy if they saw the two of you."

So... need I am currently meeting (or was the day I went Plan B)... domestic support and/or family committment... physical attractiveness... and in his words (stupid wayward), sexually "so many more possibilities with you" .... soooooo whatever the heck that means...

Plan B can be a mindset as much as literal. IMO, and many will disagree, you can make it worse by insisting on a dark plan B when you have a baby in arms. I never did dark plan B, but I definitely benifited from the concept. I would drop ds off with not even a glance toward XH. You have to cut off your emotions COMPLETELY from him. Pretend he doesn't exist. NOTHING. No animosity, no love. Just blank. Hand over the baby, the bottles and the diaper bag and walk back to your car.

((((hugs))) I know it is tough.

My suggestion is you pass kids over to ILs and have IM tell him to figure out how to cart all four kids in a vehicle without using the one you are using.
Maybe you can have ILs come to get kids from your car to take in to him too?
Have a better intermediary and
detach.
Do not let him be coddled by wondering how he will manage the fathering duties without your assistance. He is a big boy. He should be able to brainstorm ideas that don't include utilizing you as his hired nanny/chauffer
PLEASE DO NOT DO A WATERED DOWN VERSION OF PLAN B.

It may be harder in your sitch, but you need to figure it out. Any contact with your WH STRENGTHENS AND FEEDS THE AFFAIR. You don't need that. As you said, an EN you were meeting was PA, if he sees you, you fill it.

So, what kind of visitation schedule are you going to have? And have you separated your money yet? Do you know what you could legally get for CS? All of these things need to get figured out.

And being in Plan B, you shouldn't know that he is going out to eat. You shouldn't know ANYTHING about him, including how much money he doesn't have, etc. Plan B IS a state of mind, but that means that you have to change your way of thinking.

You need to be able to control the dropoffs and pick ups. What time do his parents leave for work and when do they arrive back home? It may put your children in some discomfort having to wake up to go there early, but it is what you need to do so you don't see him. Come on Mehr, think. You are doing so well. There takes some planning and work to get into a solid Plan B. In the end, it's worth it.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
And being in Plan B, you shouldn't know that he is going out to eat. You shouldn't know ANYTHING about him, including how much money he doesn't have, etc.

I know because of online banking, I do know how much child support I could get and its a lot less than i am getting by not separating the money. We aren't talking about money, I just look online, and spend what there is.

I am thinking about how to do this drop off thing.... I am lost on how to have him avoid seeing me when he wants to see them on a weekday.... I want to do this right, but I don't know how.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 02:07 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
You need to be able to control the dropoffs and pick ups. What time do his parents leave for work and when do they arrive back home? It may put your children in some discomfort having to wake up to go there early, but it is what you need to do so you don't see him. Come on Mehr, think. You are doing so well. There takes some planning and work to get into a solid Plan B. In the end, it's worth it.

Trouble is I am getting no support for Plan B. Everyone thinks I am being stupid, pretty much. They go to work by 8am. My WH works until midnight. They are supposed to ask what time he wants them, but if I were to guess it is not going to be 8am, kwim??
Originally Posted by mehr
They go to work by 8am. My WH works until midnight. They are supposed to ask what time he wants them, but if I were to guess it is not going to be 8am, kwim??

Okay, can I say 'boo hoo hoo' if he wouldn't get his beauty sleep? See if you can drop the kids off a few minutes before 8am. Say to ILs it is the best time for YOU (with a sweet, firm voice and smile as you say it). Hand the lovely kiddies over and be off (without WH seeing you).
If they don't like it, your IM could suggest he get himself a family friendly ride to fetch them at a better time for him (elsewhere, someplace you would feel comfortable about them being for handoff).

A hassle? Yes. For both you and WH? Yes.
A taste of reality about life without Mehr? Yes
And vice versa, you figuring out how to mother the kids without the support of a faithful spouse.
&#mn those waywards....they suck (first time I've said it.

I just brainstormed a bit to get you thinking of solutions Mehr. You get those wheels turning to figure out how you will do this.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 02:28 AM
Originally Posted by reading
Originally Posted by mehr
They go to work by 8am. My WH works until midnight. They are supposed to ask what time he wants them, but if I were to guess it is not going to be 8am, kwim??

Okay, can I say 'boo hoo hoo' if he wouldn't get his beauty sleep? See if you can drop the kids off a few minutes before 8am.

I can do this. I just gave in laws a reason why I need it to be 8am. They said they would ask. Grr.

But then they don't get off until 4pm again -- my 1 year old is still nursing and i can't be apart from him for more than 6 hours ...

Plan B with small children is such a PITB!!
1 year old.....six hours.....hmmmmmm.
The nursing duo (you and one year old) may need to stretch that feeding to work.
(I nursed all of mine and the last until he was....uh....just about to turn ....uh...four)
I know of what I speak (the dread of the child wanting mommy and mommy feeling full and longing to be there for child.
PITB? Yup. Yup. Yup. But a blessing to the betrayed too. More blessing than PITB which is why we believe in it so much.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 02:44 AM
Originally Posted by reading
1 year old.....six hours.....hmmmmmm.
The nursing duo (you and one year old) may need to stretch that feeding to work.
(I nursed all of mine and the last until he was....uh....just about to turn ....uh...four)
I know of what I speak (the dread of the child wanting mommy and mommy feeling full and longing to be there for child.
PITB? Yup. Yup. Yup. But a blessing to the betrayed too. More blessing than PITB which is why we believe in it so much.

yes, very uncomfortable, he probably only goes around 4 hours b/w nursing when we are together. I can do 6 pretty well. Not sure about much more than that. Also how do I get him to LEAVE their house so i can go get the kids. Hmmm. He will have no reason to leave because OW works nights.

So this works huh.... he can't see me? I mean even a visual gives him a fix? Why is that? I suppose for drop off I could open the van, throw the kids into the driveway and drive away LOL... ok not quite...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 02:54 AM
I had a thought. WH generally comes in the garage door at his parents house. I could be watching through the window and as he goes in that door, I can walk out the front door and get in the van and drive away. Kids are safe and there's no contact.
Quote
My parents are not geographically close enough to be doable.

There is no reason for them go be close by. We were in So Cal and our IM was in a differnt state, halfway across the country. It doesn't matter, it's all done by phone and email anyways.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 03:00 AM
Oh, well I was thinking as a switching the kids person... you are meaning for communication.... how do i change it to someone new when we are already in no contact?
Originally Posted by mehr
Kids are 6, 4, 3, 1 ... and no because I have the van and they can't all fit into his car...

We had 4 kids as well and guess what...my H had to sell his beloved X-Terra and buy a new car. smile

That is part of the consequence of having an A. If you D, he will need a new car anyways because you won't be sharing a car. So he might as well get on it and get a new car. That is what I told my H to do when I went to Plan B and he did it.

Our kids were just a little bit older than yours...10, 8, 6 and 3 when I went to Plan B.
Quote
Yeah, I've thought about that, but how would we afford all new carseats? Ugh-- we have no money because he is spending it all eating at fast food restaurants with HER. Apparently neither of them can cook.

Please re-read my Plan B thread ~ this isn't your problem to worry about...it's HIS.

Tell him he needs to find a way to transport all of your children safely and that he won't be using your carseats or your car.

In some ways Plan B needs to emulate what a D would be like ~ he needs to face the CONSEQUENCES of his A.

Can't afford to buy car seats or a new car? Too d*mn bad. Then he can't afford to have an A or get a D so he had better pull his head out of his *ss pretty d*mn fast and start fixing the mess HE made.

DO NOT FIX THESE PROBLEMS FOR HIM. You need to see that by doing so you are making this A EASY on him.
Quote
Hand over the baby, the bottles and the diaper bag and walk back to your car.

NOOOO!!! Bad advice.

If you see him you will NEVER and I do mean NEVER get emotionally stronger. This will keep you a basket case.

It will also meet the need of his to see you....you do not want to meet that need!! If he gets his fix of you this way that will give him enough fuel to last a while longer without you.

Don't do this. This is not Plan B.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by Scotland
And being in Plan B, you shouldn't know that he is going out to eat. You shouldn't know ANYTHING about him, including how much money he doesn't have, etc.

I know because of online banking, I do know how much child support I could get and its a lot less than i am getting by not separating the money. We aren't talking about money, I just look online, and spend what there is.

I am thinking about how to do this drop off thing.... I am lost on how to have him avoid seeing me when he wants to see them on a weekday.... I want to do this right, but I don't know how.

See my previous post. Drop them off somewhere (the friend who was originally going to be your IM?) and get the heck out of Dodge before he arrives. Do the opposite at pick-up time.

And again I must reitrate ~ it is HIS PROBLEM to figure out how he is safely going to car them around. This is a FANTASTIC problem to have, actually, because it is going to open his eyes to what this POSOW and stupid affair are costing him.

Let the consequences hit him square in the face. Do not shield him from these consequences.

Capiche?
Mine are 7, 5, 3, & 1 - do you guys have any thoughts on WH leaving us for OW with so many young kids?

I am thinking part of my WH (only 33) issue is a midlife crisis. He became stressed by all the kids and responsibility and it sent him over the edge. My WH has no clue the devastation.

If my WH ever comes out of the fog I cannot imagine the depression he will likely sink into. Any simularities?

I just sent OW email tonight letting her know when they come home from deployment I will be deposing her in divorce and lawsuit (infliction of emotional distress & mental anguish)
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by Scotland
You need to be able to control the dropoffs and pick ups. What time do his parents leave for work and when do they arrive back home? It may put your children in some discomfort having to wake up to go there early, but it is what you need to do so you don't see him. Come on Mehr, think. You are doing so well. There takes some planning and work to get into a solid Plan B. In the end, it's worth it.

Trouble is I am getting no support for Plan B. Everyone thinks I am being stupid, pretty much. They go to work by 8am. My WH works until midnight. They are supposed to ask what time he wants them, but if I were to guess it is not going to be 8am, kwim??

Send word through your IM:

"The children will be at __________at 8 am (or whatever time is convenient for you). They are expecting you to pick them up promptly at 8:05 am. I will expect them back at their house at ________."

Don't even mention the car or carseat thing. Let him figure it out. If he asks, your IM needs to tell him he needs to figure it out and he won't be using your car or the carseats.

Simple.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Mine are 7, 5, 3, & 1 - do you guys have any thoughts on WH leaving us for OW with so many young kids?

The OW in this case has 3 small kids of her own.... figure that out.
Originally Posted by mehr
Oh, well I was thinking as a switching the kids person... you are meaning for communication.... how do i change it to someone new when we are already in no contact?

You let the new IM notify him. smile
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 03:18 AM
Hmm. Interesting. Have him figure out the car / car seat thing. I don't know how this will work... but lets follow it to the natural conclusion... he brings my kids to meet ugly OW.... am I okay with that? What if that gives her the opportunity to score emotional points with my kids who are so little that they will not understand she is destroying our family?
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Mine are 7, 5, 3, & 1 - do you guys have any thoughts on WH leaving us for OW with so many young kids?

The OW in this case has 3 small kids of her own.... figure that out.

They aren't thinking about any of the kids...they are in Fantasy Land.

Wait until reality hits them. 7 young kids isn't quite so romantic and fun, especially when half of them aren't yours, LOL.
Originally Posted by mehr
Hmm. Interesting. Have him figure out the car / car seat thing. I don't know how this will work... but lets follow it to the natural conclusion... he brings my kids to meet ugly OW.... am I okay with that? What if that gives her the opportunity to score emotional points with my kids who are so little that they will not understand she is destroying our family?

Tell your oldest kids all about her and that she is a Mean Lady (that is what my kids called the OW for a long time...every time they prayed they said "Dear God, please keep that Mean Lady away from our Daddy!".

Also put word in through the IM that you will not tolerate the children being around her and if you find out that they are, you will be in a lawyer's office ASAP having it written up that your H is not allowed to have OW around your children and that when this goes to D you will have your lawyer make sure she is called in to testify and prove that she is the reason these children no longer have an intact family.
IOW, she will go on record as being a homewrecker.
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
See my previous post. Drop them off somewhere (the friend who was originally going to be your IM?) and get the heck out of Dodge before he arrives. Do the opposite at pick-up time.

And again I must reitrate ~ it is HIS PROBLEM to figure out how he is safely going to car them around. This is a FANTASTIC problem to have, actually, because it is going to open his eyes to what this POSOW and stupid affair are costing him.

Let the consequences hit him square in the face. Do not shield him from these consequences.

Capiche?

Send word through your IM:

"The children will be at __________at 8 am (or whatever time is convenient for you). They are expecting you to pick them up promptly at 8:05 am. I will expect them back at their house at ________."

Don't even mention the car or carseat thing. Let him figure it out. If he asks, your IM needs to tell him he needs to figure it out and he won't be using your car or the carseats.

Simple.

OMGosh! This is perfect in my opinion! I support this idea!
Times two.

Sometimes simple is better. Let him figure it out.
Mehr,

I agree with MF, you need to allow his choice to have some pretty harsh consequences.

Listen to her she gives great advice and has helped many who actually do as she says and in many cases saved their marriage. From reading your post I know that is what you want!!

HU
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Also put word in through the IM that you will not tolerate the children being around her and if you find out that they are, you will be in a lawyer's office ASAP having it written up that your H is not allowed to have OW around your children and that when this goes to D you will have your lawyer make sure she is called in to testify and prove that she is the reason these children no longer have an intact family.

So.... the drama of today.... get a text message from MIL, says, he can see them on Friday how do I want to do this.... I said i will drop them off at 10am (as this is a convenient time for me and I will use the plan I wrote above about walking out the front door as he walks in the side door) and pick up Baby at 4pm since he will need to nurse, and I will come back and pick up the others at 7:30pm (this is not too inconvenient because I live 1/2 mile from my in laws).

She writes back that WH was wondering if I could leave the carseats and he can use their van to take them somewhere. I wrote back and said he can buy his own carseats, and if he is thinking of having my children around her I will be calling a lawyer to prevent that (ummm but do I really have a leg to stand on? How can I prevent this because I am serious and will call a lawyer if there is a way-- I live in Illinois)

Where is he going to take them anyway, we can't even pay our bills because he's wasting so much money on the affair...

I also was wondering if me being a witch isn't going to destroy what I did with Plan A? I mean.... where is the line.... how will he know that I still love him when I am being harsh?



Argh. Help.
I think you did great, you put your foot down.

You know you cannot be afraid of your cheating husband, right? Try not to operate under the fear that your standing up for yourself will cause him to divorce you. That's what he wants you to think but, face it, he's a coward with no moral leg to stand on and you know it. You know you're the better person (and parent) here. If he wanted a divorce, he'd have filed by now.

You weren't a doormat today and, honestly, he doesn't really care about you right now...not like that. He only cares that you'll hang around and let him get some EN's met.

So don't worry about hurting his feelings as he sure hasn't shown much consideration for yours.

You did good, ok?
Quote
I also was wondering if me being a witch isn't going to destroy what I did with Plan A? I mean.... where is the line.... how will he know that I still love him when I am being harsh?
You're not being a witch. You're taking care of yourself. Don't buddy up with him and help him. He'll have to go get his own set of car seats. Maybe he can donate blood or platelets or something to come up with the cash. Or skip dinner out with OW.

This is just the beginning of the logistics hurdles he's going to be facing in Plan B. Don't help him with this.
Minimal info to him. Nothing disrespectful, angry, demanding.

Be factual.
I will do this.
He needs his own car/carseats.

Regarding OW being with them.......good for clarifying that info to MIL.
Now, don't mention OW again to MIL....if you find the kids have been around OW, talk to a lawyer about it right away to get info about legal matters.

You go girl.
Originally Posted by mehr
if he is thinking of having my children around her I will be calling a lawyer to prevent that (ummm but do I really have a leg to stand on? How can I prevent this because I am serious and will call a lawyer if there is a way-- I live in Illinois)

Ask an attorney about it. If you have any dirt on her (drug abuse, a penchant for animal sacrifice, past criminal history, etc.) then it'd probably help your case.
Unless you start spouting lovebusters to MIL that H will hear tell of.....
there is no undoing of your plan A. Don't fret about consequences messing up plan A.
Listen to todays (Tuesday, April 19th) rebroadcast of the MB radio show.....there was good stuff about a man re-directing his thoughts to himself and his kids while undergoing D with his WW. Though he was encouraged to plan A...the sentiments about how he should be thinking about things was, I thought, so very true to plan B selfprotection too!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
I also was wondering if me being a witch isn't going to destroy what I did with Plan A? I mean.... where is the line.... how will he know that I still love him when I am being harsh?
You're not being a witch. You're taking care of yourself. Don't buddy up with him and help him. He'll have to go get his own set of car seats. Maybe he can donate blood or platelets or something to come up with the cash. Or skip dinner out with OW.

This is just the beginning of the logistics hurdles he's going to be facing in Plan B. Don't help him with this.

So... how does this work? Won't he be thinking, she's mad and not very nice now so I would definitely never want to go home? Especially since in his words the OW is so "sweet" ... sigh...

I wonder if he will get in trouble at work.... that should be interesting
Do you have an IM yet? The IM should be the one handling the discussions about visitation, finance, etc in a completely neutral fashion.

And just remember that part of Plan B is giving your H a taste of what D'd life is going to be like. Don't worry about him not liking it! smile
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by reading
Unless you start spouting lovebusters to MIL that H will hear tell of.....
there is no undoing of your plan A. Don't fret about consequences messing up plan A.
Listen to todays (Tuesday, April 19th) rebroadcast of the MB radio show.....there was good stuff about a man re-directing his thoughts to himself and his kids while undergoing D with his WW. Though he was encouraged to plan A...the sentiments about how he should be thinking about things was, I thought, so very true to plan B selfprotection too!

Ok great I have been trying to listen to the radio program so I will do that. I am not spouting love busters except for maybe that threat about a lawyer .... not sure if she translated that one to him or not.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 08:30 PM
So I just got a text message from WH .... says "I worked over the last 4 nights and am going in early tomorrow and am working 12 hours on Sat/Sun" ....

I did not respond, obviously, but I am trying to figure out why he is sending me this message. To let me know he is making overtime so we will have money? Because he meant to send it to Her?
Originally Posted by mehr
So... how does this work? Won't he be thinking, she's mad and not very nice now so I would definitely never want to go home? Especially since in his words the OW is so "sweet" ... sigh...

He's so foggy from the fumes of his A that he likely has already been telling himself things like this along the way to make himself feel better about what he is doing.

Please remember a part of Plan B is to let go of what happens in the A now. I know it's easier said than done...
Are you in Plan B yet?
Originally Posted by mehr
So I just got a text message from WH .... says "I worked over the last 4 nights and am going in early tomorrow and am working 12 hours on Sat/Sun" ....

I did not respond, obviously, but I am trying to figure out why he is sending me this message. To let me know he is making overtime so we will have money? Because he meant to send it to Her?
You should not be getting these, mehr. Block his number and let your IM remind him that he is to have no contact with you.

Your IM is your MIL? I don't like the sound of that...
Originally Posted by mehr
So... how does this work? Won't he be thinking, she's mad and not very nice now so I would definitely never want to go home? Especially since in his words the OW is so "sweet" ... sigh...

Sure, the thought may cross his mind, but (look) he knows that he's screwed up and is doing something wrong and he knows that you're right and that he's wrong. Admitting that, of course, is a completely different task order.

If you're in Plan B, though, then you really need to stop worrying about how he is taking things. I know, you cannot just turn it off, but please make an effort to focus on yourself, ok?

Do you have any thoughts for another IM?

There should be no transfer of information on what someone thinks or is doing emotionally. Just the facts and nothing else. You shouldn't be hearing anything about him other than that he is still breathing and has (some marginal sense of) brain function present.



Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Are you in Plan B yet?

Except for the part where I have no proper IM, yes.... since last Thursday.

If Plan B works... does it usually take a long time? I don't know how long I have in me... the whole him returning to her drained quite a bit of my love for him and this feels less like a freeze than a slow leak....
Originally Posted by mehr
So I just got a text message from WH .... says "I worked over the last 4 nights and am going in early tomorrow and am working 12 hours on Sat/Sun" ....

I did not respond, obviously, but I am trying to figure out why he is sending me this message. To let me know he is making overtime so we will have money? Because he meant to send it to Her?

Change your cell number today. You'll feel better without having these constant triggers.

You have a house phone with Caller ID, right? If so, then do not give the cell number to your MIL. She can contact you, during an emergency, via the house phone.

If you get an IM that you can trust, then sharing the new cell number is a different story.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
There should be no transfer of information on what someone thinks or is doing emotionally. Just the facts and nothing else. You shouldn't be hearing anything about him other than that he is still breathing and has (some marginal sense of) brain function present.

Well, that's all there is .... Plan B is harder for me than Plan A.... is that weird? At least in Plan A I had a sense for what was going on. Now I have no idea what is going on except that he is breathing, and somtimes that's too bad because I could use the life insurance. Kidding... I think.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by mehr
So I just got a text message from WH .... says "I worked over the last 4 nights and am going in early tomorrow and am working 12 hours on Sat/Sun" ....

I did not respond, obviously, but I am trying to figure out why he is sending me this message. To let me know he is making overtime so we will have money? Because he meant to send it to Her?


Change your cell number today. You'll feel better without having these constant triggers.

You have a house phone with Caller ID, right? If so, then do not give the cell number to your MIL. She can contact you, during an emergency, via the house phone.

If you get an IM that you can trust, then sharing the new cell number is a different story.

What do you mean by trigger? We actually only have cell phones, ugh... this gets worse and worse.... where is my dark hole to climb into
Plan B is so you can get yourself and your life back in order and let him see what life is like without you. Whether or not he comes back to the marriage is inconsequential, as, in the end, you'll be able to live your life without him. You may not like that conclusion, but you'd at least be at peace and away from all of the drama.

Every time you get something like that text from him, you're going to start wondering about him, what he's doing, where he's going, did he mean to send me that text, did he mean to send that text to her... It's a reminder (or trigger) that gives you an emotional reaction to someone that you're trying to get over. Like smelling a cigarette if you've quit for a month, or tasting a beer if you've been sober for a year. It sets you back.

Originally Posted by mehr
At least in Plan A I had a sense for what was going on. Now I have no idea what is going on except that he is breathing, and somtimes that's too bad because I could use the life insurance. Kidding... I think.

That's the point of Plan B. To remove yourself from the damaging lifestyle (his antics with OW) and rebuild your own life independent of his to the extent possible.
Starting plan B is rough. You must undergo withdrawal from him (kind of how he has felt getting rid of OW and why he went back to her) and be more of a self contained unit of parenting and life. It is weird and you will be blue/depressed while you get your bearings and new way of living.
How long will plan B take? No one knows.
The darker you are, the better chances of it not being as long til his A dies a natural death.
The longer plan B goes....the less you will feel like you need to have him come back. The less you will focus on him and more on you. That isn't a bad thing though it sounds like it at the place you are at.

Be strong. As dark as you can. Block his number from your cell and get an IM who is more neutral to communicate children/finances.

And be hopeful WH will get it together but know that

you can only control yourself.

He is going to have to work through his lots of stuff on his own. OW will not be able to help him do it. In a sense, you are proving YOUR metal in life here. Unpleasant to do but pays off in spades as you go.
Oh dear, mehr. Instead of worrying about Plan B working on ending the A...let's focus on getting your Plan B in order, pronto!

You need to get an IM. Brainstorm. Another person is using a coworker, is that possible? I have heard of people using neighbors.

Yes, you need to change your number. Think PITCH DARK plan B...no contact whatsoever! You should also think about changing your locks because once he starts to miss you and home life, he WILL be looking for his "fix" and you need to prevent this from happening, mehr.
You are struggling so badly in Plan B because an IM is CRUCIAL.

I just can't emphasize that enough. You are still part of the A drama without an IM and that is what Plan B is supposed to protect you from.

You have GOT to come up with another IM. Think...hard. It doesn't have to be someone nearby. It's all done via phone calls and emails anyway. Someone in Japan would work for crying out loud.

Get that new IM set up today. It's really that crucial.

Also, I don't think it's a good plan to be going to the in-laws for drop off and pick up. That is waaaay too easy on him. Can you use some other friends for drop off and pick up? Your WH needs to WORK a little at picking up and dropping off his own children.



If you are in Plan B I would delete the text and tell IM to remind him you are not reading any texts messages from him and for any messages for you are to go through your IM.

Do you have anyone else other than inlaws to be your IMs? I would try to find another one just in case.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/19/11 10:08 PM
I did already change the locks on the house on Saturday... was most concerned with him coming in and sneaking things out...

I might need to go back and look at the answer to how I change IMs while in Plan B.... I don't even like my in laws being this involved.... I could ask my parents I suppose?
mehr, your inlaws are too close. You need a third party who is not a blood relative. Someone more neutral. Do you have a friend or babysitter who could do this?
A friend or distant relative (cousin, maybe?) ~ not parents or in-laws ~ would be best for an IM.

You change the IM by letting the NEW IM email/TM him and tell him "From now, please send all correspondences through me."

It's simple. I had to change IMs in the beginning of Plan B as well and this is how I did it.
Mehr, as reading has said, let's not focus on how long you'll be in Plan B, let's get you into the safety of it first and we will talk about the rest later.

Plan A is hard, Plan B is harder and I have been told that recovery is harder still. But, being in Plan B for 16 months, I can tell you that Plan B doesn't seem as bad anymore. Once you get into a solid Plan B, you will start to heal and gain the advantages of Plan B.

First, you need to get a new IM TODAY. Then, you need to figure out a new place for drop offs and how to work out what you will do about nursing the 1yr old. You coming early to pick up the 1yr old and leaving the other children, how will you be CERTAIN that WH won't see you? And walking out one door while he is walking in another, how are you going to control that? You CAN'T control what he does, if you could, he wouldn't be having an A in the first place.

So.....get a new IM and fifure out a way to drop off and pick up the kids so there will be NO CONTACT.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/20/11 01:42 PM
I have a new IM.... friend.

The pickup situation is a problem, I don't want to see him ... for one thing because I am angry and I don't want to undo Plan A by death glares or something... I arranged 4pm because my MIL will be there at that point, I can ask her to bring the baby out to me at the van, hopefully she will do that because they do not agree with what I am doing.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/20/11 01:47 PM
But again, he doesn't have a vehicle that he can transport them and if I force the situation to where he can't see them without a van then my enabling in laws will buy a van and carseats for him. As it is, my in laws may buy carseats for him anyway since I said no. I can hope not. They really don't want him and OW together, they are horribly embarrassed, but they don't understand tough love. I am trying to delay him taking them in a vehicle to go see the OW.

I don't think that my leaving is a problem, I can simply look out the window and exit accordingly, no need to control him-- its hard to explain the set up at their house. Its pick up that will be a problem. I may be able to talk in laws into making him leave before I pick them up at 7:30. Again, they don't GET it.
Quote
But again, he doesn't have a vehicle that he can transport them and if I force the situation to where he can't see them without a van then my enabling in laws will buy a van and carseats for him.
This is not your problem, so don't get caught up in it.
If ILs buy him a van/carseats that is their choice.
Again, you can only control
yourself.

Is your friend who is going to be the IM in close enough proximity that you can use her for a drop off point? Using the in-laws is a really bad idea all around.

How about a neighbor? That was my first plan until I realized our kids were old enough to walk out the door and into my H's car by themselves. That is another option, BTW, if your oldest is capable of getting the baby out to the car without your help. You can shoo them out the door, lock it, and watch from inside (without your H seeing you) to make sure they get to the car ok.
DO NOT let your H use your car or carseats. That would a big breech in Plan B. He needs to FEEL the consequences of his actions.

mehr, how is exposure at the work place going?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/21/11 12:16 AM
I am not letting him use the van or carseats. I haven't heard anything from the workplace.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/21/11 02:46 AM
He has sent message through the new IM that he can see them regularly on all his days off from now on. I feel like my heart is being ripped out .... like he is moving on, my kids are going to have a broken family.... I hate this.
It does feel like your heart is ripping out. It does BUT if you go dark and do not see him, talk with him, write or read from him, etc......
you will get stronger and you will get to be a force to be reckoned with should he ever end his A and ask to rebuild with you.
You won't take crumbs from him. Nope.

So know that what you are feeling is normal, human, real BUT this is the very best way to walk through the gauntlet of emotions. By trying to not consider what he is doing. It takes practice but you get better and better at it.

Will the kids have a broken family? They already have one BUT there is a bit of hope if you stay true and strong.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/21/11 03:39 AM
It makes no logical sense for him to be with her... Saturday before last, right before he left her, he said he always knew it would have to end with him coming back to me... he said she was "wearing off".... ugh then what happened? Why is this happening? I am going crazy. frown
It is happening because though he wanted to stop his A, he got depressed and missed her meeting certain emotional needs she met that made him fall in love with her (love bank account....remember that is what the feeling of love is so don't panic at the word).
He couldn't stand the withdrawal and contacted her and they were on again.
Simple and common.

Now, you need to have your own withdrawal from him. Imagine....hmmmm....that is kind of the horror he felt not contacting her (yuck) and that is why he blew it and had to go back with her.

Now....you have to protect yourself and see if the A dies a natural death. It might take some time and you have to go through your own withdrawal and keep yourself busy so time flies by and you don't spend it in despair but instead recovering from the most horrible experience and come out of it (with or without him in the future) as a truly fulfilled, amazing woman.

Dr. Harley says to consider antidepressants during this time to help ride it out with a clearer head.

I your H ever comes back, suggest he take some for a while too.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/21/11 04:06 AM
He is actually already on antidepressants.... he got on them shortly before the truth of the affair was revealed.

Stupid affair needs to die a natural death sooner than later....
It would be delightful on several levels if it were sooner but try not to think about the length.
Just try not to.
Just try to refocus away from him and back to you, you, you, the kids and you, you, you!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/21/11 04:17 AM
I am trying to set up to go to college this summer or fall.... its all a bundle of complicated details....
Originally Posted by reading
you will get stronger and you will get to be a force to be reckoned with should he ever end his A and ask to rebuild with you.
You won't take crumbs from him. Nope.

Agreed.

I think it's a matter of you getting to a place where you don't feel like you *need* to be married, but that you *choose* to be married. That is, that you don't accept being married to this man at all costs. That, although you would always have certain regrets, that you could walk away from this with some sense of peace in your decision.



Originally Posted by mehr
It makes no logical sense for him to be with her... Saturday before last, right before he left her, he said he always knew it would have to end with him coming back to me... he said she was "wearing off".... ugh then what happened? Why is this happening? I am going crazy. frown

((((Mehr)))) I was married for 26 years and my son was 10 when we divorced. I KNOW how hard it is. Plan B will help you heal. I went straight to Plan Divorce--but I still used plan B to an extent even after the divorce was final when things got really bad for me. It does help you to not see him. Do your best to put him out of your mind completely. You will get better at this with practice.

I know you are devastated, but you will either have a restored marriage (and NOT settle for his crumbs) or you will not. Either way you will be ok in the long run. I know because my marriage did not recover, but I am ok now. Better than ever actually.
Originally Posted by mehr
He is actually already on antidepressants.... he got on them shortly before the truth of the affair was revealed.

Stupid affair needs to die a natural death sooner than later....

I think it was meant for YOU to go on ADs, LOL. I highly recommend Wellbutrin. It totally saved me during the FR, Plan B and real recovery.

You also might ask for something to help you sleep (Ambien?) if you aren't sleeping well. Sleep deprivation will make you feel much worse emotionally. I know you're breastfeeding so ask your doc what can be taken right now.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 01:32 AM
My husband took our kids out in public with his sleasy affair partner today!!!

Is there anything I can do to prevent this? Should I even try? They are so little they just think these are new friends.... SIGH

I am very upset.
Of course you are upset. Anyone would be.
Breathe.
Breathe.
Breathe.

Tomorrow, call a couple attorneys to talk with over the phone and lay out your situation and get input. They usually give phone advice for free when doing a first call (only charging when you choose them and go in to see them at the office).

Meanwhile, calm as much as you can and know that you will tell the four and six year old in a calm, factual way what is going on. So they can ride the family rollercoaster and be braced for the ride.

Breathe.
((((Mehr))))

It SUCKS when the APs decide to try to make it look legit. This is why exposure is SO important.

Don't concentrate on WHY he did what he did, just how You can fix what YOU did.

You are NOT going to want to go through this again. So, what steps would you take next time to ensure that this doesn't happen again(the false recovery, I mean).

Now, did you get the IM sitch figured out? Are the drop offs and pickups going to happen with NC whatsoever?

You will also need to ensure that you don't find out anything about what your WH is doing with OW. This will keep you stuck and won't help you. Take care of yourself and those kiddos.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 02:10 AM
I found out because it was the first thing my 6 year old said when he got in the car.... we went to Dairy Queen with [name]!!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 02:11 AM
I mean..... do I have to let my kids be around her?? smirk
You may not be able to stop it. Find out your legal rights. In my case, I sadly CAN NOT. frown

I know that with young children, you are going to hear things about WH and OW. I was talking about people other than your children. You will get enough glimpses of A-land without unwanted info from outside sources.
So sorry you are going through this. {{{{mehr}}}}

Scotty is right, APs do this to try to normalize the A.

Please schedule an appt to see a lawyer. I have heard you can often get some free advice during the consultation. Maybe send a message through the IM that you are going to fight this and DO NOT want your kids around OW??? (I am not sure if this is a good idea, hopefully others chime in on this).

Hang in there!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 02:39 AM
I'm not letting him know anything, but I have already consulted a lawyer and I will give them a call on Monday.

So that's what this is.... he's escalating it (when he said before we went no contact he wouldn't bring the kids around them) in an attempt to normalize? To make their relationship seem legitimate?

Mehr, APs have HUGE entitlement thoughts. They believe that they are justified in doing what they are doing. They need to show that they ARE "soul mates" puke

It is all part of the fantasy. Also, OW and WH want the kids to be okay with it. Then WH will feel less guilty.

You don't need to actually vilify WH and OW to the children. What you do is say things like, "It is wrong to have a girlfriend/boyfriend when you are married to someone else." "It is wrong to date someone who is married to someone else." These are lessons that you want your children to learn anyways, and when they put together that that is exactly what your WH and OW are doing, you can be there to support their views. It is, afterall, something that you and your WH wanted to teach your children before his A right? You haven't changed your POV. grin
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Mehr, APs have HUGE entitlement thoughts. They believe that they are justified in doing what they are doing. They need to show that they ARE "soul mates" puke

It is all part of the fantasy. Also, OW and WH want the kids to be okay with it. Then WH will feel less guilty.

Right and that's part of the problem here because they are so little, they probably will be okay with it (except the 6yo who is upset), she has 3 little kids too so new playmates.... yes I need a barf emoticon....

He's gotten foggier in the last week, I guess. Because he didn't seem to have any desire to bring the kids around her before. I guess now that I am out of the picture ....
Wanna hear what my WH had planned for "us" before he found out about Plan B? He was going to move in with OW. He would come into MY home and watch the boys so I could go to work. I would take the car(we only had one, which he took. It still has payments on it which I can't afford) and go to work. When I arrived home, he would go "home" to OW. When I needed groceries, we would go shopping "together." puke This would have allowed his fantasy affair and his real life to never mingle. Well, that blew up real quick didn't it?

My children met OW on Christmas day. And guess what they had for dinner that first christmas? Nachos. And OW has a 12 year old D. That's right, a new playmate. They don't often get along, especially my DS8 and OWD12.

It is hard, plan B, but it also offers some great benefits. I hope you give it the time and energy to benefit you.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 03:20 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Wanna hear what my WH had planned for "us" before he found out about Plan B? He was going to move in with OW. He would come into MY home and watch the boys so I could go to work. I would take the car(we only had one, which he took. It still has payments on it which I can't afford) and go to work. When I arrived home, he would go "home" to OW.

This is what Plan A felt like..... he was living with OW, and was still coming to OUR HOUSE to watch the kids for all the normal things/appointments that he used to be with them for. I had to do Plan A though. I am glad it is over because I couldn't have continued without love busting. I did a very good job I think with Plan A.

I wish my kids were older so they could reject the OW better than they will as tiny tots. I thought my baby smelled weird and now I know why.... frown

I wish this would get less fun for him!!

We are having significant financial issues. We still share an account. I can see that we both ran out the first day and spent a bunch, or I know I did, got groceries and gas and anything we needed, before he spent the rest on fast food and fun with the trailer trash chick (which he already has, holy cow they can spend money).

Not sure at what point he will get sick of sharing so much money with us....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 03:23 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
It is hard, plan B, but it also offers some great benefits. I hope you give it the time and energy to benefit you.

To add to my last post though, I had a pretty good day until I learned what my children were doing. frown

I took a math assessment test and registered for college classes. I am preparing to be a nurse. Unfortunately all I REALLY want to do is be at home with my kids and continue homeschooling them, but I'm trying to move forward.
Life had other plans for you right now. Make it the best life you can.

As far as the finances go, have you figured out what you are going to do when he only gives you what he is legally supposed to? How will you pay your bills? Will you need to move? etc? Just some other things to think about. This way, you will be prepared.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 03:51 AM
Yes I have thought this through... kind of complicated and I don't want it out in public in case WH ever finds this iykwim...
Yes, and I respect that. Just wanted to make sure you had that covered.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/23/11 04:55 AM
I have somewhat of a plan, but I'm still lost.... how is that... is it Monday yet so I can call the lawyer...
You will learn that staying still is a very useful tool in life.
That means you don't jump to react to each event but sit and ponder other things while you previously would have jumped up and responded immediately.
Time IS your friend.

It helps calm you before making decisions or taking actions and you ask yourself "Is any action needed at all here? Really?"

Monday will be here soon enough and you can talk to the lawyer and have had a day or so to practice being still.

Today, take the children out for a nice activity.

Refocus on you and you with the kids.

Refocus on your positive actions as a parent and a person.

Pep talk done for now.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/24/11 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Plan B is good. It will make him miss home and the kids and you. It makes the posow 100 percent in the situation to have to make him happy and fill all his EN's. Trust me, if he was waffling at all, he will be making huge giant waffles in the next few weeks!

The ow cannot fill that goal, thus if the grandparents are horrible IM's (sounds like they are borderline enablers of your wh and his affair) then they cannot be used. Their house is not your waywards' safe zone for his seeing his kids.

You need to also make sure the grandparents KNOW and will not ENABLE your wh in allowing the posow around the kids at all at their home.

My in laws actually said No he could not borrow their van, once they knew he was taking my kids to see her. They also said that they didn't want to meet her and she wasn't allowed in the home. So... go them!

He was waffling MAJORLY in Plan A, but I think what terrifies me so much about yesterday is that I worry it means he is planning to marry her and that's why he introduced the kids into the situation.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/24/11 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by reading
You will learn that staying still is a very useful tool in life.
That means you don't jump to react to each event but sit and ponder other things while you previously would have jumped up and responded immediately.
Time IS your friend.

It helps calm you before making decisions or taking actions and you ask yourself "Is any action needed at all here? Really?"

Monday will be here soon enough and you can talk to the lawyer and have had a day or so to practice being still.

Today, take the children out for a nice activity.

Refocus on you and you with the kids.

Refocus on your positive actions as a parent and a person.

Pep talk done for now.

That's a good one... thanks.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/24/11 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Also put word in through the IM that you will not tolerate the children being around her and if you find out that they are, you will be in a lawyer's office ASAP having it written up that your H is not allowed to have OW around your children and that when this goes to D you will have your lawyer make sure she is called in to testify and prove that she is the reason these children no longer have an intact family.

What do you know that I don't know.... lol
Quote
My in laws actually said No he could not borrow their van, once they knew he was taking my kids to see her. They also said that they didn't want to meet her and she wasn't allowed in the home. So... go them!

He was waffling MAJORLY in Plan A, but I think what terrifies me so much about yesterday is that I worry it means he is planning to marry her and that's why he introduced the kids into the situation.
Waywards think all kinds of weird things, mehr. He's probably looking for deserted islands to buy for the two of them. crazy

What I suspect he is doing is attempting to normalize this skank's place in his life. As long as the kids aren't allowed to be around her, he won't be able to do that.

Don't concern yourself with his mindset right now. He has no mind right now. It's a fog-swamp.

DO make it a point to give your in-laws a big hug for standing up to him and for your marriage! You go, mehr's in-laws!! hurray
Marital's right Mehr. What the #1 and ultimate goal of any crazy wayward, esp one who has left the family home and is shacking up with their skankho or male skankho, is this..ACCEPTANCE of the affair and of their skank partner.

That is why he wants to get the kids around her. You see, most families (even most enabling ones for the ws) really aren't ok with the affair partner being there at all. And especially not around kids. If they let the kids around her, then it's a slippery slope. If the ow is anything or somewhat decent around the kids, they'll tolerate her around them, simply because she didn't eat them or lock them in the closet the last time she saw the kiddos. Then life for the wayward can come SOMEWHAT close to normal for him/her. However IT WILL NEVER BE AS BEFORE.

This is why the affair has to stop. Of course, if the ws ends up ever trying to do something so stoopid as to marry the ow/om, they will end up divorced, but it will mean your kids are around the ow/om. And lemme tell you from experience, the ow/om WILL NOT LOVE YOUR KIDS as you love them, or as your ws loves them either. It's all just pretend crap.

So kill this affair. And send over something delicious and a card or flowers for your inlaws for them being superduper marriage heroes!

I guarantee your wh will begin the huge big time waffling even more when he finds out that you LEGALLY will not allow the kids around ow. In my state, it is normal divorce or separation language to have written in the following (or something similar): "When children are in the custodial home there are to be NO overnight visitors of the opposite unless it is a FAMILY MEMBER". Failure to do so, will or can result in you taking a sorry wayward back to court and challenging any bit of custody the ws has. I ought to know. I had that one written in my sep and divorce decree, and when I went back to court about a year after divorce (due to nonpayment of cs), I pulled that angle too, and got the judge to take away a bit more of my xwh's custody time. Now I'm sole custodian.

Anyhow, you hold the waywards' feet to the fire girl! Do it! he has to know that Mehr don't play that, and that you are out to kill this affair! You don't want a skank playing mommy around your precious kids, and you do not want a skank in your lives at all! Plus you aren't taking this lying down!

Go Mehr! You can kill this affair!

here's something sneaky you can do too. If you're in a dark plan B, you can have a GORGEOUS photo of you and the kids (like a huge 8 x 10) made (and have your hair and makeup done) and look like a gorgeous movie star and leave that huge photo of you and the kids in plain sight whenever wh comes over to his parents' house. He will SEE that, remember how his parents HATE the ow and the affair, and see and remember how lovely and wonderful you are and how he misses his kids.

And of course, your inlaws can show him such a lovely (either post Easter gift or early mothers' day gift) you gave them!

There are lots of subversive things you can do to re-emphasize your presence to your wh even in plan B, WITHOUT HAVING YOU BREAK plan B you know? I did sneaky sneaky things. Sadly I busted somewhat up my xwh's affairage, but it was too late b/c he'd married her. About a year after the affairage he tried to get me to come back, even luring me to a new home he was building and how he used MY OLD INTERIOR AND ARCHITECTURAL ideas in the new home (like a counter to ceiling aquarium in the foyer/close to kitchen)and told me how miserable he was and missed "us".

So yea, MB works. But work it hard now Mehr! Time is ticking and you need to kill this affair before it has a chance to mutate and grow into an uglier monster than it already is.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/25/11 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Marital's right Mehr. What the #1 and ultimate goal of any crazy wayward, esp one who has left the family home and is shacking up with their skankho or male skankho, is this..ACCEPTANCE of the affair and of their skank partner.

You... all of you.... are right. This really rings true/makes sense to me. I really hope that his parents saying "no" to acceptance is ringing in his mind, maybe bringing a moment of clarity to the fog.

Thanks for the encouragement. The pick up/drop off situation seemed to work well. He wasn't there when I dropped them off, his mom was, I ran out the door to avoid him being there before I left, and then when I picked them up I was super nervous but he had already left and his parents were waiting. I thought it was very odd at the time, but then I thought if his parents were not accepting of the fact that he introduced the kids to the OW he probably left when they got back from dinner to avoid hanging out with them.

I had my intermediary send a message saying that on his next days off I will drop the kids off at 3pm at his parent's house. I happen to know from Before that she works at 4pm, and lives 20 minutes from his parent's house, so that should prevent any opportunity for them to all meet up for a happy playdate. I have not in any way let WH know that I know about his introduction.... nothing. I am being as Dark as I can be.
Mehr, great job. Keep as dark as you can. I know it is hard at first, but it DOES get easier.

Take care of yourself. Those kiddos need a mom who is healthy.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/25/11 01:28 PM
waiting for a call back from the lawyer
Stay strong.
Are you reading up about a good plan B?

It is crutial that you do this step correctly.
Plan B is really survival mode for the BS

It will save your sanity, or at least a ton of wear an tear on you.

{{{mehr}}
Double post.
Triple post.
Oh good grief...now they're all gone.

Be back later.
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Oh good grief...now they're all gone.

Be back later.

Will do you a favor, here's what you posted per the email notification that I got:

Originally Posted by MarriedForever
I would talk to your kids ALLLLL the time about the mean lady daddy is hanging out with.

Tell your 6 year old that that is daddy's girlfriend and that is NOT OK WHEN YOU ARE MARRIED. Tell him flat out that she is trying to take your place and pretend to be YOU.

Tell him you still love Daddy and want him to come home but not until POSOW is gone. Tell him it hurts your feelings so badly that daddy has a girlfriend and that as soon as daddy dumps her, you want to try to fix things with daddy but that it can't happ! en until she leaves Daddy alone.

A 6 year old can understand this. Talk to him in age appropriate language. Do NOT try to shield your H from the consequences of his own children knowing what a piece of scum he is.

Let your children put this pressure on him. That is a GOOD thing. Do not direct your children to talk to him about this, simply tell your children the TRUTH and let THEM talk to their father about it.

This is what I did and trust me...what our kids came up with was farrrrr better than anything I could have told them to say.
Oh phew, thanks so much, that's much easier!
I totally agree with what MF, through North's save wink , wrote.

That's the way I told it to my children. They understand it that way and when they ask questions, I answered them honestly and in an age appropriate way. I make sure that I tell them that Daddy isn't necessarily bad, and that OW may seem nice, but what they are doing is wrong and they both know it. My DS8 sometimes thinks that OW is just being funny with some of the comments she makes(he still doesn't understand sarcasm) so I let him know that she actually means something else. He understands well enough, I do worry that he will cross over, to the dark side. I stay on top of it. grin
mehr, sorry your kids are being exposed to this.

This A needs to be killed...what is happening at work? I am surprised no one has contacted you back yet especially since this could be a sexual harassment for the Company.

If their jobs take a stand it will help your cause.

Can't believe that he is taking your kids out in public with the OW especially with the work situation. Not smart.
Refresh my memory, did this get exposed to the workplace?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/27/11 12:46 AM
Originally Posted by hope3343
mehr, sorry your kids are being exposed to this.

This A needs to be killed...what is happening at work? I am surprised no one has contacted you back yet especially since this could be a sexual harassment for the Company.

If their jobs take a stand it will help your cause.

Can't believe that he is taking your kids out in public with the OW especially with the work situation. Not smart.
I haven't heard anything, which makes me nervous, but it is a HUGE worldwide company and it was sent to several big wigs, so maybe it takes some time because they have a lot in their dish? I don't know. Best case scenerio right now would be if they moved them to opposite shifts (day/night) and they are no longer able to spend any time together -- that would be awesome.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/27/11 12:47 AM
Oh and yes, not smart!? He has lost his mind though, a lot of things don't make sense. He spent 100 on carseats to introduce our children to his sleasy AP when he knew we were already treading water financially.
mehr, see if you can find a sort of local number and follow up on this. Ask for the person you sent the exposure letter to. If you can't get them, get their secretary. Keep talking to people until you can connect with someone.

They should not bury this - your WH's company is a very big one, so your work may be harder. Don't let that stop you.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/27/11 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
mehr, see if you can find a sort of local number and follow up on this. Ask for the person you sent the exposure letter to. If you can't get them, get their secretary. Keep talking to people until you can connect with someone.

They should not bury this - your WH's company is a very big one, so your work may be harder. Don't let that stop you.

I only sent it a week ago... it probably took a few days to get there... it may just be too early.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/27/11 01:04 AM
Or maybe they are watching them to see if its affecting their work, since they don't have a policy about this kind of thing. I had mentioned their chatting and mistakes .... so maybe they are wanting to see evidence.
Originally Posted by mehr
Or maybe they are watching them to see if its affecting their work, since they don't have a policy about this kind of thing. I had mentioned their chatting and mistakes .... so maybe they are wanting to see evidence.

What did the lawyer say?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/27/11 01:10 AM
Oh, the lawyer, he said there is nothing I can do right now since there is nothing filed so according to our state we are just happy lovebirds, however if/when I file I can list her by name on the divorce.

So my strategy is what I had planned before anyway, I sent word through the intermediary that I will drop the kids off at his parents 3pm Saturday and Sunday. I did not specify why, but I wouldn't be surprised if he figures it out. She works, unless her schedule changed but hers was always the same. No time for playdate. His response was "ok."
Ok. Of course there's nothing the lawyer can do. YOU have to ask for sep papers to be filed, and a temp order to be put in place. You also need to get $ secured for alimony and cs b/c this guy will spend his last dime on trying to make the crazy ow skank happy.

You also need that sep agreement and order to ensure the kids WILL NOT BE EXPOSED to the ow. you can easily have this written in, and into the sep order.

A separation order or temp order IS NOT A DIVORCE decree so understand that Mehr. It goes well along with plan B for the wayward who squanders family monies and isn't honest with them, and for a wayward who wishes to defile his own children by exposing them to his nasty, immoral affair.

Call lawyer and get this done. Your inlaws need to be in on some of this. You need to tell them that you intend to make things not easy for the affair and ow. That you want to let wh see what he really stands to lose, and also you're scared he's squandering family monies and you have the kids to feed and clothe and take care of since he ABANDONED the family.

You should also cite that to your attorney. An emergency order/temp order for support (cs and alimony) and for ensuring the moral integrity of the non-custodial home when the kids are allowed to see the wayward husband, so that they aren't exposed as such young children to a very immoral extramarital affair. You also NAME HER and call her into the courtroom for the emergency hearing that day.

Trust me, the ow doesn't want to have to testify that she has spread her legs and destroyed a marriage and family. This is like throwing the bucket of water on the wicked witch of the west.

make it really painful for ow! Make it! She also has to be made to know that you aren't going to allow your WH to spend money on her or the affair, because your children and you need it. OW hate when you take their affair $ away.

You see Mehr, my xwh's affair wife thought OUR FAMILY MONIES were instantly hers. And that was just not so. I had to hold his feet to the fire for anything and everything.

But the quicker you make things in plan B utterly miserable for the affair mongers, then the better the chance the affair dies a miserable death. Make it inconvenient. Make visitations for daddy inconvenient for him to bring ow around kids, and make it ILLEGAL for him to do that. Make him be forced to prioritize his $, and trust me, that will further drive a wedge between them. And with the temp order, MAKE THAT OW stand up in court and testify to her wicked actions. She will be wanting to run away from this situation so fast it will make wh's head spin.

The other thing is this. If you secure monies for cs and spousal support, it takes a huge bite out of the money for the building of their rutting lair (aka wayward lovenest). They need money to feather their rutting lair. You have to buy a bed for the rutting lair and that costs $. Some kind of furniture. Maybe some food? You have to make it as hard on them financially as you can make it.

Your wh has to see a distinction between the truth of what his life was with you and the kids (stable, loving, family, warm home, place of comfort and familiarity with loving wife) to the rutting lair with the ow (not enough $, not allowing ow around kids, embarassment in court, exposure further of the affair, having his parents hate ow, etc). There has to be a STARK contrast for the fog to begin to clear. Plus he'll begin to want what he had. I guarantee that Mehr!

A wayward is really screwed up in the brain. They change their minds from one second to the next. One minute they want their affair partner. The next minute it could be a double cheeseburger served to them in the bahamas at a resort. Next minute they want to enter a Tibetan monestary. Following moment they want to come home to the one they betrayed and put this crap behind them.

you just don't know what a wayward is thinking. The Bible puts it very clearly about the mindset imho of the wayward. The Good Book says this: "A double minded man is unstable in ALL of his ways". Your wh is a double life and double minded man. A ww is a double life and a double minded woman. They are told to us by GOD THAT THEY ARE UNSTABLE IN ALL THEIR WAYS.

So, how to help them stabilize? Give your marriage and family a chance? Easy. DESTABILIZE the affair which is bringing the destruction to its' greatest extent.

I know now 100 percent I helped even after my divorce end their stupid affairage. I never accepted it. I didn't validate it. I held his feet to the fire. And ow's feet too. I made him go to court every time he screwed up, and I never allowed too much time with ws over at their house with my child.

My son never called ow anything except Ms. X. He called her Miz X (her first name). My xh tried so hard to get him to call ow "momma X" but he refused. My son was barely in pre kindergarten at the time and still refused to accept the ow, and it was b/c I did not accept the affair!

You have better chances Mehr. ihad a different set of circumstances before me. Trust me, a very pregnant ow with an agenda is the hardest thing to go up against. Had she not been preggers, I think I would have easily ended up busting them up for good. However, thankfully and mercifully, God had a far far better plan for my sweet child and I, and in time I marrid the one God wanted for our lives, not my xwh.

So make things bad, horrible, evil, and tough on the affair mongers. Take their money away! Keep them from setting up their skanky rutting lair. Keep ow away from the kids and embarass her publicy on the stand in a court of law, in front of a crowd of people and MAKE her have to explain why she spread her legs repeatedly and tried to break up a family and steal money even more from that family by encouraging their dad and husband to abandon his wife and kids. (that's the angle your lawyer paints!)

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 04/27/11 06:46 PM
I like the sound of that, but there is a problem. Instead of taking their money away, at this moment, i would be giving them more money to play with. At best, I can win about 50-60% of his income. Right now I am using 80 or 85% and he's wasting the rest on fast food and movies with her. If I do that, I will be in some serious financial straights for which there is no easy answer, although I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.

I will file for legal separation the instant he takes away the direct deposit or I am getting less money this way than i would that way.

I love the idea of her having to take the stand and all....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 01:13 AM
Today he saw the kids for the first time in 8 days... 3pm to 7:30pm. His parents weren't there so I went out the front door when I saw he was going in the side (I watched out the window) so there was no contact there. When it was time to pick them up I was worried how I was going to pull it off and as I went to the front door he went out the side-- not sure if he is respecting my wishes (wouldn't be totally unlike him) or if he is avoiding me as well. I am wondering.

The last time he saw the kids my 6yo said that WH told 6yo that mommy and daddy don't get along. 6yo said that today he told WH "I know how to get you and mommy to get along. You just have to stop playing with [OW's name]." 6yo says that WH's response was "awww" and that's it. He said "he never says anything, just awwww!" I told him that there isn't a lot to say when you are doing the wrong thing.

Interesting, though.
Mehr, even you seeing him to watch for him to come and go, or him seeing you IS contact. It is visual contact. It still does damage to you. Protect yourself.

Sorry I can't help more right now, just a little down myself from a sort of contact in Plan B. It threw me for a real tailspin and I didn't even have any real contact, direct or visual with WH. I just heard about someplace that WH took the children. You need to protect yourself.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Mehr, even you seeing him to watch for him to come and go, or him seeing you IS contact. It is visual contact. It still does damage to you. Protect yourself.

Sorry I can't help more right now, just a little down myself from a sort of contact in Plan B. It threw me for a real tailspin and I didn't even have any real contact, direct or visual with WH. I just heard about someplace that WH took the children. You need to protect yourself.

I actually did not see him. He parked on the side of the house, I just saw his car pull in. The whole thing is upsetting though, regardless. I don't think he did see me at all. Just doing the best I can, really.... there's nothing easy about this no matter what....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 01:38 AM
I spend way too much time wondering if he even misses me or thinks of us at all.... frown
Originally Posted by mehr
I spend way too much time wondering if he even misses me or thinks of us at all.... frown

Completely NORMAL.

You really need to start focusing on YOU and your children and not on your WH. I KNOW how hard it is, believe me. It takes practice and time. You need to just keep reminding yourself to refocus. You will have slips, but they will come less often.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 02:17 AM
It seemed right at the time but now I wonder if I went into Plan B too fast.... I just read this

"ROMANTIC INFIDELITY

Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continuing living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate-someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own-is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.

People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born-any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. "

He was depressed... that's exactly what happened.... I wish i could share this with him, somehow... argh
Again, TOTALLY NORMAL. And also residual effects from "contact."

I went through pretty much the same thing at first, and sometimes feel it as well. You could never educate a wayward. Even if you were speaking to your WH, your attempt at education would be worse for your marriage. Screwy huh?

And another thing, my WH was depressed too, because of his A. That was something that took me a long time to realize. The WS actually suffers from depression due to the choices they needed to make to become wayward in the first place.

I only give you a little while in Plan B before I pull out the big guns and hit you with some 2x4's so get ready. grin

Take care of YOURSELF.

Have you ever read my novel.....ummm I mean, thread? It is long, but I tried to keep it as real as possible to try to help others. It's funny, because I don't even recognize that person anymore. I can bet that you won't either, given some time in a dark Plan B.
mehr-

My husband's infidelity, and his dumsel in distress ( love that article- my counselor had me read that a long time ago) was exactly that described scenario. She was a twit, and he tried to be her savior. So stupid. But I Plan A'd too long, but went to Plan B within a few days of posting on here.

I still maintain it saved my marriage. Don't second guess yourself. Trust yourself. You're a smart cookie. And no dumsel in distress.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by RidicSit
mehr-

My husband's infidelity, and his dumsel in distress ( love that article- my counselor had me read that a long time ago) was exactly that described scenario. She was a twit, and he tried to be her savior. So stupid. But I Plan A'd too long, but went to Plan B within a few days of posting on here.

I still maintain it saved my marriage. Don't second guess yourself. Trust yourself. You're a smart cookie. And no dumsel in distress.

That's exactly it... in Plan A I heard from him plenty about how he is essentially saving her, because her soon to be exhusband was horrible, she isn't very good looking and has 3 kids.... he said I would have a better chance to find someone (raise eyebrows, what a weird thing to say)... so he is playing the savior/rescuer. I said something about it to him and he said I am right. Um but yet he continues.

What happened in your plan B? Was it a long time? Have a thread about it?

I can't help but feel that I don't have as long in me as Dr. Harley recommends (2 years total).... if their relationship doesn't flop by soeme point .... I am just going to be ready for Plan D.... I don't know how long though.... I guess I'll know when I see it.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
And another thing, my WH was depressed too, because of his A. That was something that took me a long time to realize. The WS actually suffers from depression due to the choices they needed to make to become wayward in the first place.

He was depressed even before but it got worse when he started the affair (hindsight). I hope he is HORRIBLY depressed right now. He needs to hit rock bottom ... fun just prolongs the affair.
You can read my thread. smile I exposed in March- kicked him put and went to B at the same time- he came back, then I sent him out again, because his withdrawal was so bad, but we started to heal beginning in September. And he moves in soon after that.

It was a longterm affair. And horribly messy. I can't believe some of the things I listened to. But affairs are ugly and hurtful, but things can turn around. They can.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 03:14 AM
As best as I have been able to uncover, this started as an inappropriate friendship sometime in the late fall, by December I think he started to have some feelings, and it didn't get physical until......... end February? Possibly 1st of March to be exact, they day he helped her move (but I didn't know at the time). I believe the feelings were revealed b/w them in middle of February, I am basing this on his rapid change in demeanor, it could have been earlier.

So this isn't a long term affair... so she isn't "old news" yet....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/01/11 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by RidicSit
You can read my thread. smile I exposed in March- kicked him put and went to B at the same time- he came back, then I sent him out again, because his withdrawal was so bad, but we started to heal beginning in September. And he moves in soon after that.

It was a longterm affair. And horribly messy. I can't believe some of the things I listened to. But affairs are ugly and hurtful, but things can turn around. They can.

How do I find your thread? I was expecting a link in your signature or something....
Affairs, I am convinced occur when people of the opposite gender spend any time alone together.
Walking
Talking
Eating
etc.
It is so amazing that there are not more affairs destroying marriages and families now that I think of it.
I don't think being depressed is the factor that sways things.
Either a person starts spending time alone with a person of the opposite gender and keeps crossing lines of betraying their spouse or they don't cross the lines. It is a constant choice an individual makes.
The smartest choice is at the start. To never be alone with anyone who is the opposite gender for any reason.

I so believe this now.

I do.
I think being depressed doesn't=affair. I think *some people choose to self medicate in a depression, and the boundaries and choices go away faster than they would in a non depressed person, because the thrill gives them a hit faster. I don't think emotionally healthy people have affairs. I don't think emotionally healthy people are affair partners.

Mehr- look under my username, and view posts. I would prefer not to have a direct link in this thread, but you can find my thread that way. smile
Wow...love that quote. Thanks. Nik
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/02/11 11:15 PM
I have decided to file for legal separation. I made an appointment with lawyer tomorrow. I hope they don't give me too hard of a time being a separation and not a divorce. This scares me a lot, I feel like by getting the ball rolling he might just keep it rolling into a divorce.... you know, since I am forcing him to lawyer up anyway. frown

He is just spending too much money and the money stress is affecting me so it has to go. We are not in contact (Plan B) but I check our online banking and in the last 10 days he has spent 478 dollars on eating out, movies, gas and groceries.... for one person (okay 2 since apparently he has to pay for her eating out every day, and 1 person doesn't spend 30 dollars at olive garden). I spent 262 on gas and groceries for 5 people. There is no money to pay the bills because he has been so foolish about the money. I had my intermediary let him know how much we have and he kept spending anyway. So I guess I have to do something legal.

But this is very scary close to divorce. I wonder if it is over.

I am wondering if I should include a letter to DH for him to get just after being served... maybe from his parents... to explain that I am still committed to him. I am not sure he would still think so after I file... What do you think???
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/02/11 11:38 PM
I see I forgot to post this, but my 6.5year old son came home yesterday after "visitation" and said that when daddy was leaving before I got there he told daddy to stop "playing with" [name of OW] and come home and daddy said something about mommy telling him bad things (like maybe he thought I was prompting him but I am not) and 6.5yo kept insisting he needs to stop what he is doing and WH said "I love you, I love you, but me and OW get along and its what its supposed to be like..." over and over and 6.5yo didn't like that, he says "daddy should tell the truth and stop" ...

Something like that, 6.5 year old was telling me this so I don't know that I understand all that was said.

Quote
because her soon to be exhusband was horrible, she isn't very good looking and has 3 kids....

Does your H have the same OW mine had? LOL. I heard these exact same things.

YOU are doing great Mehr for going for the legal separation. Please serve him and depose the ow. Let them know you want (your mean bulldog attorney you get) an immediate hearing as he is destroying your family finances, and you are being placed in dire circumstances.

You get him on the stand. You get OW ON THE STAND too. You depose them in front of God and everybody!

It is ok to tell his parents, but I'd just say I still love my H, but I cannot allow our family to be put in peril and in financial jeopardy as he is putting his affair and his hobag ahead of his children and wife and the obligations.

I would also, if possible, ask for far more than you think. My old attny did this. You ask for far more, you make the WS see the writing on the wall, that they will go down if they go to a final hearing in court, and then they settle for a bit less, which is really more $ than you wanted anyhow.

My situation was wierd financially. It seemed like I got alot, but in reality my xh reported very little and shifted $ overseas and in different accounts all over the place (we had forensic accountant and he couldn't find it all). But when we had to negotiate with the actual monetary disclosures that he presented, it looked like I got a sweet deal. Better than most, but in light of his real worth (and the debt he left later on) it wasn't that great. But we tried the ask very very high, settle for better than we'd get if we went by the basic court numbers.

Do not feel sorry for your wh. He is lying to and emotionally harming your children by forcing them to be around the ow. I'd stop this right now and revoke him seeing them with ow around. Because of this, I'd ask for SOLE CUSTODY and for the ow to not be around when on visitation (if any) with their father.

How sad he is harming the emotions of the children. Waywards do not care who they hurt. Just lie and rewrite the truth and history.
Legal separation is a scary step but by its pure nature (you are not filing for D) it signifies you want to work on the marriage. If he makes it into a D it is not because you got the ball rolling.
If he makes it into a D, it will be because he is trying to prove to his OW that he 'loves' her.
We know that love is nothing more than love bank deposits that reach a certain level.
As betrayed spouses we also know that 'what goes up, can go down'.
Now stay dark. Even if he turns the legal sep into a D.

The best thing you can do is simply protect your finances and stay dark. Dark.

Your 6.5 year old is a doll.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by Scotland
And another thing, my WH was depressed too, because of his A. That was something that took me a long time to realize. The WS actually suffers from depression due to the choices they needed to make to become wayward in the first place.

He was depressed even before but it got worse when he started the affair (hindsight). I hope he is HORRIBLY depressed right now. He needs to hit rock bottom ... fun just prolongs the affair.

My H was depressed as well...we had just met whom we suspect to be his birth mother and several counselors have said it was the perceived rejection from the adoption that sent him into a depression. She was at a funeral with her son who looks exactly like my H. It was so weird.

IDK if that is true or not but looking back it could not make better sense.

It really doesn't matter. The bottom line is if they had had better boundaries, depressed or not, an A would not have happened.

Hang in there. It does get better. Don't second guess yourself. You are doing the right thing. If you got back to my posts and late Feb/early March 2007 you can see I was in a place similar to you.

I didn't post a lot while in PB because I knew my H was reading here but you can still see some of what was going on.

We are getting closer to fully recovered every day, BTW. In PB you will recover no matter what, either in the M or by yourself. PB is the safest place for you. smile

Hug that baby and Mehr?

PROTECT that baby from further emotional harm from their wayward bio dad.

It is not divorce yet. But you are going to have to stand up and do what's right for yourself and the kids right now. It sets a precedence as to you being tough, not taking what he's doing, and showing him you will not allow him to mentally and emotionally harm the kids!

Do all of this and stay dark! Dark and remember..have no mercy on the waywards. They have shown none to you, your children, or to the family finances. Stand strong and tall!

Praying for you all.
P.S. you have exposed to her STBXH, right???

This A is probably the reason they are divorcing. Please tell me you exposed to him...that is SO important. OW lie all the time ~ they may or may not be divorcing, do not take your H's word for it nor the OW's. Talk to OWH yourself.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/02/11 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
You get him on the stand. You get OW ON THE STAND too.

I will if I can!!! You can bet that and trying to make her Not be at visitation are high on my list of desires. I hope I have a lawyer that will help me with that.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/02/11 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
P.S. you have exposed to her STBXH, right???

This A is probably the reason they are divorcing. Please tell me you exposed to him...that is SO important. OW lie all the time ~ they may or may not be divorcing, do not take your H's word for it nor the OW's. Talk to OWH yourself.

Yes I did, and its not why they are divorcing unfortunately.... she is trailer trash and is surrounded by trailer trash, it appears even her ex is one of those. He didn't seem concerned about his children being around a married man.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/03/11 12:06 AM
Okay so you guys think a note to him is not a good idea? I will at least let his parents know why I am doing it (but not until too late to warn WH), his mom told me on Sunday that his dad called him up and left another message telling him he doesn't agree with what he is doing. Awesome! Bring on the pressure ...
I missed it, what's the note for?
Mehr, maybe NO note is best.

Trust me, they know why. And you need to find the recent thread about "the art of war".

You do not play into your enemy's hands. Your inlaws, as kind as they may be, might accidentally leak this into to the wayward husband. DO NOT TIP YOUR HAT..DO NOT GIVE ANY WARNING.

This needs to come as a shock. A hard hitting hammer of truth! (dang, now I sound like Charlie sheen!)

If you contact them, do not do it in writing (in case they change sides..blood water thick thing you know), just give them a friendly call from a cell phone. AFTER you serve him.

And listen to me my friend, YOUR ATTORNEY WORKS FOR YOU, it is not the other way around. You make them do what your wishes are! I am so tired of this stuff about what an attorney wants blah blah blah. I told my attorneys what they would do and what I desired. And trust me, I had a really really bad evil wayward, one of the worst, with tons of money who legally could keep attorneys burying me in paperwork. But I was hard lined, held his feet to the fire.

You can always expose to the ow's side AFTER the legalities are laid out.

Your FOCUS right now Mehr, IS ON GETTING AND HIRING A MEAN, BULLDOG JUNKYARD DOG GROWLING ATTORNEY! And filing like I said. 100 percent custody, barring ow from seeing them and the horrible emotional pain inflicted on your children courtesy of your husband, HUSBAND HAS ABANDONED your FAMILY (this is another ground) and that husband is having an adulterous affair with a (named) Mrs. Skankyho, and you also cite that your husband has squandered marital assets paying only for the affair and not taking care of his financial obligations.

You go for the jugular Mehr. It is not against your H, it is against him as a wayward and alien, and the ow, and the AFFAIR.

Grounds:
adultery
abandonment
emotional cruelty to you
emotional cruelty to the kids

I agree. Don't tell the in-laws. When they call you, as they most likely will, after you have filed, just let them know that you needed to do this to protect your finances and your children. That it saddens you, but you need to protect your children.

Now, about this bank account. It's a GIANT hole. Have you opened your own account? You will need to do this, once you can so you can mentally separate from your WH further. Also, you will need to protect YOUR money.

(((((MEHR)))))
No note to WH.

Don't tell ILs til the legal separation is filed and underway. Then, tell ILs you love WH, want to reconcile and pray the affair dies but must protect yourself and the children legally.

Then, if WH turns the legal sep into a D.....stay the course. Stay the course.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/03/11 01:58 AM
Question.... if WH doesn't have any cash, but his income is too high for legal aid, how does he get a lawyer?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/03/11 02:06 AM
Um to clarify, not that I want to fix it for him, I actually want it to be AS HARD AS POSSIBLE and I am worried if there is no other way his parents will bail him out.... I hope not. I definitely will not be telling them before he is served.
Originally Posted by mehr
Question.... if WH doesn't have any cash, but his income is too high for legal aid, how does he get a lawyer?

Not your concern when you go to Plan B. He will find a solution of some sorts. His parents......you can't control what they choose to do for WH either.

You can control your own actions and the model you set for your children when they watch you dealing with this.
Then you don't worry about what the alien wayward has to do. It is advantage: Mehr!

Sorry to be like that, but you need to watch out for yourself right now. My x IL's also went with the blood is thicker than water route and unwisely chose their wayward son to support.

YOU support the kids and yourself and your family and friends do too!

If given a chance afterward, let your iL's know you love them, and that you hope that soon he will realize that things cannot go on like this or he will lose his marriage and family forever. That you are simply making sure that you and the kids are protected financially since he's supporting financially his affair and ow and that you are protecting the kids from the horrible emotional trauma from being exposed to the affair.

That's like your mantra to the inlaws. Give them no furter information at all. Or none. Mehr, they already know what is going on here.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/03/11 02:52 AM
Does Plan B really maintain what's left of the love? I feel like its still draining out...
Then it means you're OVERDUE for plan B and you need to pursue that and a legal separation right now.

You're under severe mental strain right now.

Seriously, when a guy is being DOWNRIGHT EVIL and emotionally harmful to your kids, I could care less if my love for him would be staying or waning. I'd want to protect my kids. Get legal help now.
Originally Posted by mehr
Does Plan B really maintain what's left of the love? I feel like its still draining out...

It does. It helps you recover your authentic self and think clearly but it sort of is there to draw on if the wayward ever is seriously ready to carry his part of the load to recover the marriage.

I consider it a 'pause' button.

One that is being held by an increasingly stronger and stronger person (the betrayed one).
Originally Posted by mehr
Does Plan B really maintain what's left of the love? I feel like its still draining out...

I have to tell you, the longer I read here on the forums, the less I worry about the A ending and I worry much more about the BS's LB$ & respect for the WS ~ the reserve being enought to work through a recovery.

I agree with Scotty, you need to open your own account (or do whatever you need to) so that you aren't seeing what he is doing with his $$... You are mentally still too involved in what the waywards are doing. You've got to separate yourself from it completely.

{{{mehr}}}}
Good for you Mehr, you are doing the right thing.

In case you missed it ( smile ) I'll repost what Peachy said. It's excellent advice. I'd print it out, take it to your attorney and say "Here, THIS is what I want to happen."

FYI, my neighbor had a "no overnight visitors" thing written into his separation (and later divorce) agreement, so go ahead and put whatever you want in there.

Originally Posted by peachyisback
And listen to me my friend, YOUR ATTORNEY WORKS FOR YOU, it is not the other way around. You make them do what your wishes are! I am so tired of this stuff about what an attorney wants blah blah blah. I told my attorneys what they would do and what I desired. And trust me, I had a really really bad evil wayward, one of the worst, with tons of money who legally could keep attorneys burying me in paperwork. But I was hard lined, held his feet to the fire.

You can always expose to the ow's side AFTER the legalities are laid out.

Your FOCUS right now Mehr, IS ON GETTING AND HIRING A MEAN, BULLDOG JUNKYARD DOG GROWLING ATTORNEY! And filing like I said. 100 percent custody, barring ow from seeing them and the horrible emotional pain inflicted on your children courtesy of your husband, HUSBAND HAS ABANDONED your FAMILY (this is another ground) and that husband is having an adulterous affair with a (named) Mrs. Skankyho, and you also cite that your husband has squandered marital assets paying only for the affair and not taking care of his financial obligations.

You go for the jugular Mehr. It is not against your H, it is against him as a wayward and alien, and the ow, and the AFFAIR.

Grounds:
adultery
abandonment
emotional cruelty to you
emotional cruelty to the kids
Okau MEHR, now you have been given my gentle 2x4s, but I see that it didn't work for you and you need some GIANT ones. twoxfour grumble

On another thread which you started, http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...at&Number=2504719&gonew=1#UNREAD you asked about how a Plan B effects a WS. As a BS IN Plan B, you shouldn't give a rat's azz. I know it is hard to understand this at first, but you need to get on board with Plan B. You may think that you are in Plan B, but you aren't in it completely......YET. With our help, you can be, and soon. Listen to what we are telling you and DO what we advise and you will be feeling better in no time.

Understand this, Plan B is not simply about no direct communication with your WS. It is a state of mind. It is a LIFESTYLE change. You need to refocus your thoughts to YOURSELF and YOUR recovery.

Of course your LB is taking a hit, you're not in a true Plan B. You CAN be. You need to make that choice right now. Do you want to have a chance to recover your marriage? If you still hold out that hope, right now, as you are reading this, you need to listen up and follow through. What you need to do is get yourself behind the darkest Plan B curtain you can and STAY THERE.

Come on Mehr, I am not telling you this to harm you. I want to HELP you. We ALL want to help you. So, Get into that dark as night Plan B and flourish in it.

Have you made a dent in reading through my thread yet? I go into Plan B around Page 44. You can see what has happened to me before that day and since. You let me know if you see a difference. And I had holes in my Plan B. I suffered because of them. My LB has taken hits. It's a good thing I started with as large a balance as I did, or I would have been done a LONNNNGGG time ago.

I don't know what will help you get into the right mindset. I don't know what words I can express to help you WANT a better life for you than the one you have now. I so desperately want to get you into a dark Plan B. How can I help you achieve that? What can I do to help you, Mehr? I am in pain for you.

As I see it, you need to do some things TODAY to get into the darkest Plan B possible.

I will tell you that I still don't like your visitation arrangements. We can tackle that after we have filled up the other holes, but I believe those are part of the reason that you have been having such a difficult time with plan B. It would be my advice to plug this hole up, RIGHT NOW.

Next, you need to get rid of that bank account. You CAN NOT know what your WH is spending where. What happens when you look at the account? You see that he has spent X dollars at X place and you get MAD. You think about who he spent the money on and you KNOW what he is doing. That is NO Plan B. Get a legal document to FORCE him to pay what he is supposed to. Whether he gives you the money or not, will be another issue. But, the only things that you should know about HIS money is whether he gives you what he is supposed to.

Then, change your way of thinking and STOP THINKING about your WH. It takes practice. It is hard work. Thing is, recovery(so I have been told) is harder than Plan B, so get yourself ready for a long hard road.

I want you to FLOURISH in Plan B. I want you to flourish in LIFE. Come, walk with me in the darkness of Plan B. I am here, holding your hand and guiding you. I PROMISE that if you do a truly dark Plan B, you will feel WONDERFUL and STRONG in no time. Join me?
mehr, what are you doing to keep busy? This will help keep your mind off of your WH. Here are some things I did during Plan B:

~went out to dinner/movies with girlfriends every time FWH had the kids

~redecorated the MA bedroom, MA bathroom, main hallways and entryways. This took a LOT of time and I had fun doing it. Use freecycle for supplies if you don't have money for them (we didn't either but I didn't care ~ I figured if WH was out screwing around, I could use our credit cards to make our house nice for me and the kids)

~went on a couple of small trips ~ one to visit a friend I met from MB, another to Palm Springs with our kids and some friends

~got a new haircut and exercised like crazy

~went on walks at the beach with girlfriends every chance I got

~had dinner with friends and family so the nights weren't so long

Do whatever you need to do to keep busy. Your mind has too much time to think about what your WH is/isn't doing and that isn't helping you.

Mehr - I have been in a dark Plan B for a couple weeks now, and it is amazing the difference. My mind is focusing on me. I am doing individual counseling, exercising my hinny off, and engaging my children much better.

I have so much hope that my POSWH will see the light of day sometime. I am not going to say I am sitting around waiting for him, but I will admit I have hope.

My hope today focuses on our four children (7,5,3 &1), so for me reconciliation is mostly about them. I am able to forgive him because the greatest gifts I can give to my babies are

1) A healthy Mom
2) The family back
3) Forgiveness so they can see a healthy marriage

Now my POSWH is 10' deep in dung at the moment. Today it seems hopeless that he will return. I know I am changing, and I know his #1 EN is physical appearance.

Guess what I will look like when I meet him in court sometime this fall? Not only will I look like the wife of his youth, but he will see that I am not a fat, lazy, knitter, who sits around all day compromising my health.

How did I deplete my POSWH bank, by showing him I didn't care enough about my health.

Granted my breasts will still sag (breastfed for years) my stretch marks will still be there, but my overall health will be great. I plan to run a 15K in October.

Go Dark and only focus on you, your children, and what you want out of life.

Reality is they are sleeping with another, they may break up with their Wh#@$, and they may go and still sleep with another. You cannot have you mind wrapped around their wayward behavior. The statistics are in your favor. There will be a time in the future where he will want you back. You have to be prepared for that little moment of opportunity (even if you are divorced) to either fully reconcile, or officially be done with him.

Wrap you mind around all the reasons you deserve a husband:

1) I am a great wife
2) I am a great wife because I can massage feet the best
3) I am a great wife because I change thousands of poopy diapers
4) I am a great wife because I can cook him his favorite meal
5) I am a great wife because I have empathy for him
6) I am a great wife because I can make him laugh
7) I am a great wife because I am there for our babies
8) I am a great wife because I can load a dishwasher while cooking
9) I am a great wife because I mop the floor on my hands and knees
10 I am a great wife because .....

Keep telling yourself hourly, daily, weekly why you deserve a great husband because you are a great wife. There will only be two options either for him or for another man. That doesn't change who you are as a wife.

I pray for you and all the waywards because the empathy we have for them as they self - destruct is profound. I just pray they will come out of the dung and breathe our sweet air.

God Bless
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/03/11 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Understand this, Plan B is not simply about no direct communication with your WS. It is a state of mind. It is a LIFESTYLE change. You need to refocus your thoughts to YOURSELF and YOUR recovery.

Yeah this is confusing to me... because it seems to me that if I move on in life without him, it would be hard to go back. I don't know how to explain it... almost like, I worry I won't want him back if I allow myself to get complete over him, but then I'll feel morally obligated....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/03/11 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
mehr, what are you doing to keep busy? This will help keep your mind off of your WH. Here are some things I did during Plan B:

~went out to dinner/movies with girlfriends every time FWH had the kids

~redecorated the MA bedroom, MA bathroom, main hallways and entryways. This took a LOT of time and I had fun doing it. Use freecycle for supplies if you don't have money for them (we didn't either but I didn't care ~ I figured if WH was out screwing around, I could use our credit cards to make our house nice for me and the kids)

~went on a couple of small trips ~ one to visit a friend I met from MB, another to Palm Springs with our kids and some friends

~got a new haircut and exercised like crazy

~went on walks at the beach with girlfriends every chance I got

~had dinner with friends and family so the nights weren't so long

Do whatever you need to do to keep busy. Your mind has too much time to think about what your WH is/isn't doing and that isn't helping you.

I took your advice and was reading some of your old threads last night. Of course once this legal separation goes through we are going to be in poverty so I am not going to have money for fun.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/04/11 01:05 AM
Ok saw the lawyer today, he tried to talk me into a divorce and could not understand why I wanted a separation... he said I would pay more money this way.... but I stuck with the separation... anyone else have that experience?

The lawyer said there was nothing I could do to keep the other woman from being involved in the visitation unless I could prove she was a danger to the kids from drugs or something like that. frown Maybe that is the case in this state or something ...

But the grounds is listed as adultery and with Her Name on it.

Money is going to be a big problem for us.... since we are suddenly going to be living on 1/2 income but with 5/6ths of the family. But I am on board with the healing thing, I was listening to MB radio about it. I am still concerned that if I heal up I won't want him back at all, but then it sounds like in "Plan C" I won't want him back either sooo....
Mehr, sorry I didn't get a chance to address your concern earlier. My internet goes a little screwy with rain and wind. Guess what was happening today?

Anyways, I too had and sometimes have those same fears about moving ahead. What I have come to learn is that the marriage I once had is gone. The DH I once thought I had is long gone. I am no longer the person I was before I learned of my WH's A. In all of this, I NEED to move forward. I need to go ahead in life and become the person who I want to be. The best me that I CAN be. There have been many changes, some small and some large. I have done it ALL with ME in mind. Even if my WH were to come back, it wouldn't be to the marriage we once had, nor would I want that again. I will not settle for that type of marriage again. My bar is set HIGH.

I will expect, from my next relationship, a lot more than what I got from this one. I will not SETTLE for less than what I can offer someone else. And with the help of MB, I have learned how to be a spectacular wife to someone. I have learned how to have a spectacular marriage and I will NOT settle for less. It doesn't matter WHO that person is in that new relationship(I am still holding out hope that it will be my WH) is, I will NOT SETTLE FOR LESS THAN SPECTACULAR. For this to happen, either with my WH or without, I will need to heal and become the strongest person I can. THAT is Plan B. Healing one's wounds and becoming stronger because of those wounds.

So, Mehr, although you might be frightened at the prospect of losing your WH, understand that you will need to learn that you don't want your WH. You want someone BETTER. It could be him, and maybe no one, but you won't settle.

So, how are the plans coming along for plugging up those holes? As Pep just mentioned on my thread today, you need to do things that are uncomfortable and not easy, to grow(okay, she said it a bit differently). Baby steps forward. Don't look at the big picture, just the day to day, small changes. When you look back at this thread next year, you will be AMAZED at the difference.
Yes. Attorneys push for D vs LS. I've experienced it and probably every one else too.

Yay on the grounds! hurray

Face it, no matter what, once your WH started the A.....the finances were going to take a hit. The fog is oblivious to it as it pulls into the coast to envelop the wayward.
Ok. YOu have the bulk of the family living with you, so you simply file for appropriate child support AND spousal support as you are not to live in poverty with a wayward with no responsibilities living it up.

And tell the attorney if he/she doesn't do what YOU say, you'll fire them.

Seriously, you file for SOLE CUSTODY because of the immoral living conditions of your wayward husband, living under same roof as other woman. You also cite that no member of the opposite sex is to reside or spend the night under the same roof as your wayward husband, unless they are related by blood.

You CAN do that. Meanwhile, make the attorney realize that it is EXPENSIVE to raise the kids, and your wh has to PAY for that.

Also, ask for all attorney expenses to be met at the first hearing. WH must pay for that too.

Soon your wh will learn he cannot have the kids around ow as he wishes, esp not when she cannot spend the night (great if they're shacking up together) and that he can't have affair money to play around with either.

No court will let the mother of the kids who is innocent and being taken advantage of by a wayward spouse go huntgy or her kids and live in poverty. Get over that now! Your wh will be solely working to support his family even if he does not reside under the same roof. He'll "get it" soon. smile

Meanwhile attorney works for you. YOu do everything legally possible to make it so horrible and bad and inconvenient for the ow to be in the same zip code as your kids.

also, maybe DO find a private eye or search out legal records of the ow. You never know. With a confirmed liar and cheat, who knows...maybe she DOES have a criminal record of sorts? Maybe there are huge skeletons other than the affair in her closet. If it were me, I'd have HER investigated. Again, that is all bonuses when you do go to court.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/04/11 01:29 AM
He said there is NOTHING I can do.... frown

And I just looked at our account and despite us being negative 20 dollars.... he spent another 33 dollars today on eating out..... I am STEAMING.... feeling a little "Plan FU" over here.... I am paying the house payment on Thursday even if it bounces the account and he can't eat for the week....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/04/11 01:31 AM
They need to serve him faster. I need to be out of this mess with MY money in MY account. This is going too slow for me already ....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/04/11 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Also, ask for all attorney expenses to be met at the first hearing. WH must pay for that too.

Now that's an interesting idea, why didn't I think of that .... I will call and ask about that.

In the mean time, he said there is absolutely nothing that can be written in the visitation. Is that an Illinois thing? He said definitely there is nothing. All I can hope is that my 6.5yo and 4yo make her life hell and do not accept her ...


No money for a private eye or anything....
Mehr, YOU CAN ASK FOR SOLE CUSTODY.

That you CAN AND SHOULD DO!

The no overnight visitor of the opposite sex is COMMON language in a separation and or divorce decree. Very common. It is added in for the welfare of the children, since in many divorces, the law recognizes that one parent just ever so slightly MIGHT be a bit wayward and not be a good role model.

See?

Make it so. (Captain Picard)
You can always ask for something. They might say no but you
nothing ventured
nothing gained.
Seriously, the language is normal in many many states Mehr. You don't want to subject the children to repeated immorality and confusion. Most lawyers are well-versed this is common too.

I didn't even ASK bout this one, but my attorney wrote it in. He said, "well in your given circumstances I thought you needed this in it." He was right. Not a big deal actually. But a HUGE DEAL to and possibly a deal breaker with the affairmongers.

Makes the rutting lair NOT to be confused with the place of visitation for his children. See?

And you do ask for sole custody. You can even ask for a mental evaluation of your ws if you so desire. If my xwh ever tries to counter me in court, I'll simply require him to have one!

It will be placed as burden of proof onto your wh as to HOW he is good enough to get custody. You see, when a wife or husband comes out shooting with that, the judge wonders what the heck IS that other party DOING to make them want to limit time with the other parent. Must be the whole smoke/fire thing.

Sets the mood for your lawyer, creates the atmosphere of you winning and then you just provide the evidence.
If you are placed in dire financial straits and he is stealing money out of the accounts, then on behalf of your kids, you go before a judge or have your attorney GET an emergency hearing.

Over 2 years ago I went in myself (had my own evidence in hand, based on court rulings and other documents filed with our courts in non-divorce related situations regarding my xwh) and visited with the assistant to the judge at about 4:30 pm on a friday. Couldn't get there any earlier as I had to work and the court building closed at 5.

I was granted at 4:45 pm an emergency hearing the following monday. Less than 72 hours later based on the severe evidence I had. I have also had 2 other emergency hearings but my former attorney secured them for me within one week.

My xh got served about 8 am on saturday morning telling him he had to show up MONDAY morning at 9 am for the hearing. He went DOWN big time.

If he is causing harm financially to the kids by stealing joint monies and leaving you with nothing, that is part of the abandonment grounds as well as a good reason why you should have sole custody too, as he is NOT being a good parent and not caring if his own kids eat food or starve.

Start thinking with your head, not being reactive and emotionally thinking. I am not being mean, but trying to coax out of you the amazing and wonderfully thinking Mehr that is in there! Step away from the emotional feelings, and realize, you are not in such a bad position (aside from him stealing $). You use legal ju-jitsu with his own actions being made as a weapon against him. Let his own negative energy be used against him in court. He steals money? Great. You get an emergency hearing and get that money back, and a temporary ruling for the separation agreement too!

And the sep agreement will establish the fair and proper amount of child support, spousal support so that you are treated well and the kids aren't placed in jeopardy. Also in that emergency hearing you get full custody of kids, since he abandoned the family home for an immoral adulterous relationship, also having stole joint family monies, placing the children and wife in dire straits, simply so he could carry on his affair.

That's the whole jist of the arguement your lawyer will make.

You can get alot of that done in the emergency hearing. I did in mine. (the first one). I was awarded in that hearing, the grounds I sought in the separation agreement, and monies for back chld support and alimony, and legal fees, and retained a large majority of custody.

if things go to divorce, he will have to prove all the grounds false to get the original sep agreement changed up for the divorce decree.

Lose/lose for the wayward spouse. Huge win for Mehr and the kids.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/04/11 02:34 AM
I am definitely asking for sole custody....
Peachy, sometimes, legally, you can't do a thing about APs being around the kids. I can't. Legally, here in Canada, it doesn't matter. And, generally, my attorney fees are paid by me, and the courts don't believe in a mom, even if she were a SAHM, to not support herself and her children. If I didn't have a job, I would have had to go get one. I can't ask for more than what is figured out my HIS income. Although, even if I had a GREAT paying job, he would still have to pay CS, due to the fact that he has them less than 40% of the time. Sometimes, laws suck.

Mehr, it is great to have this advice from people who have gone through it already. Although some states have different laws, see what things Peachy has suggested that can work in your sitch.
Mehr,

do your children get upset being around the OW? If so tell attorney this and say that your WH will have to pay for counseling if he continues bringing them around the OW.

Why are you leaving money in your account? Take it out and pay a bill and just say it is all gone for this month.

blessings
Quote
do your children get upset being around the OW? If so tell attorney this and say that your WH will have to pay for counseling if he continues bringing them around the OW.
I would take this up a notch and put a clause in there about him being responsible to pay for couselling for the kids, period. He's the one bollixing up their lives.
@Scotty:
Here in the US the wordings of my sep/divorce decree regarding there not being members of the opposite sex when the child are in the custodial home (unless they're married) is very very common and in many states. Also, I got a job also too. Sure did. You have two separate households and each head of household has to run it, but the main factor is ONE of the two households if kids are involved, they will require more money for that household to run.

If there are parameters placed around the noncustodial home, such as the provision above, it makes it hard for the affair partners to live together, or else the live in partner (ow or om)would have to go elsewhere and stay when the children come to visit the wayward spouse. It certainly LIMITS the time around the op. Until my xh married the ow, it stopped most of that cold, and my son wasn't around her.

Of course, if there is emotional cruelty shown that the children have endured at the hand of the ws, because they are EXPOSED to the affair and the dissolution of the family as they know it, most likely in the US, a judge would rule in the best interest of the children, thus that would also keep an ow or om away from the kids.

There are lots of things you can do. Those are just a few. A good attorney can get creative too.

However if the affair partners marry, then there is little to be done to stop the op/affair marriage partner from being around the children, unless there is a great difference in custody. Like the bs parent has the kids the majority of the time, and the ws parent gets the kids on weekends, or twice a month weekends. Or like me, I got sole custody. That definitely would limit things.

One great thing about the US, is that if there is a great difference in incomes (like my xwh and I as he made about 5x more than I did) they will try to make sure there isn't some insane drop off in manner of living and they'll get some sort of spousal support. In the south, it is common. I got some, but it was not near enough for me to not work. I had to go back to work.

If you have a state where you can list a reason or fault for the divorce, as my state is, you can use that as leverage in negotiation as if the grounds for the separation or divorce are significant, the judge might feel so inclined to rule more so in favor of the more innocent spouse.

My xwh knew that I had significant evidence and several grounds for divorce, all proven clearly, so it was assumed (and it happened every time I had to go to court against him) that he'd always have to foot the legal fees. I'd always get them awarded me.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/06/11 08:56 PM
I think I am starting to get the hang of Plan B and what it means. I have been reading more threads here.

Last couple days I've been thinking-- who am I apart from WH? What do *I* want? I mean so many of the things I do have to do with him. For example, most of the things I cook I make because he likes them.... the way I wash things, the places I go, the music that I listen to, even the TV shows that I watch. That is not to say that he decided these things for me but they were a collective effort. A lot of the things I do seem to surround him and his presense in my life.

I found a couple journal type entries in the last year, where I sat down and wrote out what I was experiencing. I realized when I read them what a horrible husband he was in 2010. I mean we've had good years and bad years like anyone, but in 2010 he was the epitomy of selfishness. Now I can place a reason on it, he was depressed, but that doesn't make an excuse either. He chose to do some of those things or make me feel those ways.

Now I feel like I have an Opportunity .... Plan B can allow me to heal and grow more as a person. Then (like you guys said) whether or not he comes back to me I can move forward. One thing is for sure-- I don't want the WH of 2010 back. He's going to have to be willing to commit to recovery and to growing as a person too. There have been times I've felt like I have been changing and he has chosen not to come with me.

Last year I truly did EVERYTHING... we had 4 kids under 6 and he was refusing to change diapers or help.... again, I can say he was depressed (and unmedicated at this time), but he also made a choice to disengage from the family. Then after he was medicated he continued to use it as a reason to not help with anything (but he was cheating on me by this point too).

I remember a week before D-day it was his day off and he was just laying in bed all day and I was getting really upset with him and I knew the counselor had given him the assignment to wake up by taking a shower and getting more involved. So when he finally got out of bed and into the shower I was relieved. But then he got dressed, put his hat on, said "If you think I don't help much now, see what happens next" and he left the house. I was speechless and gave him an hour to himself before texting, "can you come back before 4yo's swim lesson?" The answer was "no." I was left getting 4 kids ready and to swimming lessons, and all I had wanted was to spend a little time with him as a family.

The sad thing is, now that he is gone, I haven't noticed a difference in my work level around the house. He truly wasn't helping or involved at all. He had completely detached from the family.... and I *think* he had done that before she had really entered the picture.

So.... as horrible as this is and as much as I wish he had worked on things the right way instead of cheating on me, I don't have to go back to that.

The question is, again, who am I apart from WH? What do i want to do? Yesterday and today I started to get some "dreams" and ideas of what I want to do now, regardless of whether he comes back.

I hope he does return though because we have 4 kids and over 12 years together and I think there is something so good about him-- he could be SO much better than he chose to be. But we all have those failing moments right? Whether he redeems himself properly is up to him now.

WH should be getting served early next week and I can't wait for FREEDOM from his crazy choices. The kids and I are truly going to be in poverty and we are applying for food stamps frown ... but I am also returning to college to be a nurse so its just one step along the way.

Onward and upward....
Hind sight is 20/20 in regards to being proactive or nipping things in the bud. Sometimes, even if you knew, you were only able to control yourself.

I know I tried implementing so many things to make my marriage better over the years and my H didn't 'feel' like putting the effort into a brilliant marriage. I, in plan B, no longer make excuses for his renters mentality. I can say for sure, I was a good sport and as accommodating as a wife could be (as you said about music and foods and etc).

Plan B is good.

as you said
onward and upward.
(((((Mehr)))))

You are getting it. Great job. It's not an easy path you have chosen, but it is very rewarding.

I am proud of you. Keep moving forward. laugh
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/07/11 12:52 AM
I finally got this thread condensed with my first one! smile
Regarding the finances, if you can't get an emergency hearing to secure them, then I suggest you begin making HUGE withdrawals and paying cash for everything. Withdrawal all it, in fact, if that is what you need to take care of your children.

Open up a separate account with just your name on it and transfer enough for the mortgage and bills. Do this NOW so that he cannot continue wiping you out.

Having an affair does not mean he is entitled to spending his children's housing and grocery money. What an [censored].
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/10/11 11:23 PM
He just doesn't get it about the finances. That is one area I have always taken care of for him and before me, his mom. I know it is a good move to get the legal separation and let him learn to take care of it himself.

No update really.... just going along day by day.... today was the first time I've caught a visual of him, though. He came to pick up the 6 year old for tball, I opened the door and send him out, and I had to pick up the baby who stood in the doorway. At least I was looking good. But he looked good too-- I didn't like that so much. I would have liked to see him looking visibly stressed. But who knows.

Other than that... its been a dark Plan B.

I am reading through mimi's Plan B thread right now...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 12:29 AM
Ugh.... 6year old came back in the house crying, he cries every time he says goodbye to his dad.... he said he told daddy that I miss him (as in me, his wife), uhoh.... I worry he will think I told him to say that and i did not....

He sent a message through the intermediary as to when DS' picture day is for tball. He uses that intermediary so faithfully, not like so many of the Plan B threads I read where he dislikes it... I almost think he likes being out of contact....

smirk
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 12:30 AM
Someone encourage me I am not just wasting my time doing Plan B instead of getting a divorce.... double ugh.
Who knows what your WH is thinking or doing and for how long he will continue to do so......no one knows.

You can't tell how long that will be BUT being in plan B is best for YOU.
Even if you get a divorce, it is the best road for you to be out of the circle of betrayal.

You work on you. Eat healthy foods, get some exercise, nurture the kids. Adore the kids.

The children are going to be sad. They want their Dad. Dad doesn't want them enough to stop his affair now or yet.

Only time, and riding it out in plan B allows for recovery of yourself and or the marriage.
Mehr,

Most likely his dad (wh)is trying to say lies and rewrite history to even a child, so seriously you need to consider getting only full custody with the children. It is horrendous the lies that unrepentant waywards will tell the kids.

Talk to your child (possibly tape it with a var) and give it to a child psychologist if the child is always always visibly shaken and cries after leaving their dad. He might be doing what my xwh did to my son which was tell him something like "daddy doesn't really love mommy, but like a friend, and Miss X is who daddy loves" or something crazy like that. Have your child communicate openly with you and find out if the ws is saying horrid things like that.

A wayward who has left the family home and is living with or almost living with their ow or om is dangerous to if the children's mental health. They are. The ultimate of selfishness. Usually they force the kids to be around the affair partner or try to force some kind of contact and say horrible or outlandish things to the kids to try to sway them.

My xwh did that. And I caught him doing it. Got it nipped in bud.

This is why I am an advocate for going for full custody as an affair is also emotional abuse too, for not only the bs, but TO THE KIDS as well. You're being too nice Mehr.

He has to see the distinct difference. He still has not had a reality wake up call as of yet. He needs that separation agreement and the words SOLE CUSTODY and the grounds of adultery, mental cruelty and abandonment staring him in the eyes and needs to read in that document the name of the other woman.

Once he sees you're not playing around, a bit more reality will come crashing down. Plus as I've said, divorce if done right (with you having uuber mean lawyer who will bite his *ads off)will become expensive for a wayward and they won't enjoy their newfound fantasy at all.

This is why I think coming down hard and fast on the affairees as quick as you can in plan B is the best, once plan B is entered.

They have to see there will be no nicey nicey. No shared holidays. No friendly visits. No holiday outings. No shred of what was once a happy family if they continue with the affair. They will see what a divorce because of an unrepentant and harmful affair looks like.

Also, getting full custody is great for plan B! You can ask for it in the sep agreement, and I might add, please get an endorsement from a child psych or their pediatrician showing that the stress of having them around their wayward daddy and the hobag is too much emotionally and is HARMFUL to the children. Judges understand that.

I got custody pretty easily. I showed the pain caused my son courtesy of his crazy wayward daddy.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 01:33 AM
Even with sole custody he gets visitation. He doesn't really see the kids all that often right now, but you're right, it upsets them and I wish I could just skip it. Him being dead would be easier than this. I pray that God can change his heart and bring him back to sanity before he does too much more damage to the kids.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 01:40 AM
For example, before tonight, it was the Sunday before last... over a week... since he had the kids. He is seeing them 4.5 hours on Thursday and Friday. I can't take any more time away from him even with sole custody.

In my state, they are even forcing me to take a class on how to be a good parent during a divorce/separation (you can imagine what this contains).

The courts don't care here at all if the kids are sad about the situation.
I'm by no means a vet here, but in reading your thread I keep getting the impression that your attorney is not listening to you. If he says he can't put anything in about the ow, I'd want him to explain exactly why. If it's in your state law, ask to see the law. Often professionals just do what they've always done. You need to approach your interactions with him as the strong, smart woman you really are and push for what you need.
Originally Posted by mehr
Ugh.... 6year old came back in the house crying, he cries every time he says goodbye to his dad.... he said he told daddy that I miss him (as in me, his wife), uhoh.... I worry he will think I told him to say that and i did not....

He sent a message through the intermediary as to when DS' picture day is for tball. He uses that intermediary so faithfully, not like so many of the Plan B threads I read where he dislikes it... I almost think he likes being out of contact....

smirk

My FWH used our IM faithfully as well.

When DS cries after your WH drops him off, it is ok to let him call his Daddy and tell him he loves and misses him and wants him to come home. It is good for WH to know how his children are hurting over his selfish choices.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 03:21 PM
DS asks him to come home every time he says "goodbye".... so he knows...

Just need to vent.... we are already in the red, and last night WH thought we had enough money to go to the movies and out to eat with OW. I can't wait until I can't see that crap!! He is so stupid. I have always taken care of the money for him, and we had just enough for our life. We cannot afford 4 kids AND for him to go on dates with his mistress.

OW has her kids every other week, this is the week she doesn't have the kids.... he always spends more on these weeks. Its like they re-enter the fantasy where they are dating, instead of cheating and each with a family.

Thanks MF.... maybe it doesn't mean there is no hope.... frown
MEHR...take the freaking money OUT OF THE ACCOUNT.

You are enabling his affair by allowing this. That money is needed to FEED YOUR CHILDREN. I am sorry to sound harsh but you are not caring for your children by allowing this.

Your children's needs come FIRST, before your ahole WH's desires to have a mistress.

Why are you not doing this??? There is nothing stopping you from doing this and I cannot for the life of me figure out why you are allowing it.
Completely agree.

You know when he gets paid, right? Assuming a direct-deposit going through at midnight on Thursday, I'd be at that bank when it opened on Friday.

If need be, open your own account with the same bank. Empty the joint account and deposit it all into the new account. Set up online bill pay, etc. and you're set.
Originally Posted by mehr
Just need to vent.... we are already in the red, and last night WH thought we had enough money to go to the movies and out to eat with OW. I can't wait until I can't see that crap!! He is so stupid. I have always taken care of the money for him, and we had just enough for our life. We cannot afford 4 kids AND for him to go on dates with his mistress.

OW has her kids every other week, this is the week she doesn't have the kids.... he always spends more on these weeks. Its like they re-enter the fantasy where they are dating, instead of cheating and each with a family.

Why would you give him YOUR house money to spend on his AFFAIR? He needs to understand the consequence of this. NO MONEY. You are trying to figure him out as a logical person.

HE is an Alien. Trying to figure out his actions is like trying to figure out a rock. You can't.

Concentrate on yourself and let him fall. Get to the bank. You have 4 children not 5. Take care of them. Blessings.
Refresh my memory, isn't there an option for court-ordered financial support or something?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
MEHR...take the freaking money OUT OF THE ACCOUNT.

You are enabling his affair by allowing this. That money is needed to FEED YOUR CHILDREN. I am sorry to sound harsh but you are not caring for your children by allowing this.

Your children's needs come FIRST, before your ahole WH's desires to have a mistress.

Why are you not doing this??? There is nothing stopping you from doing this and I cannot for the life of me figure out why you are allowing it.

I CANNOT take the money out of the account because there is NO MONEY. We are in the red.... literally. He is using the credit link attached to the account, knowing we are negative, to go on dates.The real money is already spent.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Refresh my memory, isn't there an option for court-ordered financial support or something?

I am trying to get that, its taking forever. I also applied for "food stamps" because we are just that bad off, but that is taking forever too. Ridiculous, it is...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 05:59 PM
Okay. So I know what I need to do, having thought about what is said here. I have to figure out how to cancel that dang credit line, and get my own account, take my money out each time he is paid .... I keep expecting him to stop the direct deposit but he hasn't.... no complaint about that of course, but its weird.

He still hasn't asked me for divorce or anything. Its like he's checked into virtual reality vacation...
Close the credit line. Simple.

Do this TODAY. And in the future, begin withdrawing all funds as soon as they are deposited into an account with only your name on it so that you can pay the mortgage, bills and buy food for your children.

Document what you are spending money on so that if he ever b*tches about it you can prove you were only protecting your children from his wasteful spending.
Originally Posted by mehr
Its like he's checked into virtual reality vacation...

Yeah, right.
MrRollieEyes
Except for some minor details like .....

Quote
4 kids: 6, 4, 3, 1

Pretty sobering ....

Originally Posted by mehr
Okay. So I know what I need to do, having thought about what is said here. I have to figure out how to cancel that dang credit line, and get my own account, take my money out each time he is paid .... I keep expecting him to stop the direct deposit but he hasn't.... no complaint about that of course, but its weird.

He still hasn't asked me for divorce or anything. Its like he's checked into virtual reality vacation...

If he does anything with the money you file for D and ask for an emergency hearing to get that money back into the account so that he can support his four children and wife!
MEHR;
I am so sorry for you. This is one of the worst type of situations that I see BS with families in.

You can not "cancel" a credit line that has a balance on it, unless you pay off the balance.

You may, however, be able to get your name taken from the account (or not assessed with 1/2 the debt for future purchases.)

Get more legal advice on this specifically.

You may have to go to the bank/credit line guaranteer.sp? and tell them what is happening - re: the credit line, but they may freeze the family account.

But if there is no money in the account this may be a mute point. That is why you have to talk to private counsel first.

Truth is-
I do not think your H is going to keep direct depositing money when he finds out you are not going to give him carte blanche spending priveleges - especially on a credit line that YOU will be 1/2 responsible for in the future.

But what is worse is the unresponsible spending that is going on under your nose.

You are going to have to make some real tough calls here. If you "grab" money from a joint account, it is going to be a "one trick pony" and you are going to have to have a legal plan in place.

Originally Posted by barbiecat
You can not "cancel" a credit line that has a balance on it, unless you pay off the balance.

You may, however, be able to get your name taken from the account (or not assessed with 1/2 the debt for future purchases.)

Get more legal advice on this specifically. You may have to go to the bank and tell them what is happening - re: the credit line, but they may freeze the family account.
But if there is no money in the account this may be a mute point.


Truth is-
I do not think your H is going to keep direct depositing money when he finds out you are not going to give him carte blanche spending priveleges - especially on a credit line that YOU will be 1/2 responsible for in the future.

But what is worse is the unresponsible spending that is going on under your nose.

You are going to have to make some real tough calls here. If you "grab" money from a joint account, it is going to be a "one trick pony" and you are going to have to have a legal plan in place.

Mehr, Maybe I've missed this but why can't you get an emergency hearing to get support for your kids from their loser father?

DD into an account that is in the red is of no use to you. You need money given to you, in YOUR account every week, or payday, so you can pay the bills and feed your kids! The money that is/will be owed to the account with the credit line is a seperate issue...I would definitely be arguing (through attorney) that he be responsible for paying that back.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
You can not "cancel" a credit line that has a balance on it, unless you pay off the balance.

You may, however, be able to get your name taken from the account (or not assessed with 1/2 the debt for future purchases.)

Get more legal advice on this specifically. You may have to go to the bank and tell them what is happening - re: the credit line, but they may freeze the family account.
But if there is no money in the account this may be a mute point.


Truth is-
I do not think your H is going to keep direct depositing money when he finds out you are not going to give him carte blanche spending priveleges - especially on a credit line that YOU will be 1/2 responsible for in the future.

But what is worse is the unresponsible spending that is going on under your nose.

You are going to have to make some real tough calls here. If you "grab" money from a joint account, it is going to be a "one trick pony" and you are going to have to have a legal plan in place.


If his direct deposit comes in tomorrow morning, I could possibly pay it off and cancel the credit line. That is what I will try tomorrow morning.

There really isn't much to take, anyway. I think I should start by shutting down the credit line and buying groceries and then send a message through the intermediary that there is no credit line, just bouncing, and I left him ____ dollars for the week after buying groceries.

That is my plan, if things go well tomorrow....

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by barbiecat
You can not "cancel" a credit line that has a balance on it, unless you pay off the balance.

You may, however, be able to get your name taken from the account (or not assessed with 1/2 the debt for future purchases.)

Get more legal advice on this specifically. You may have to go to the bank and tell them what is happening - re: the credit line, but they may freeze the family account.
But if there is no money in the account this may be a mute point.


Truth is-
I do not think your H is going to keep direct depositing money when he finds out you are not going to give him carte blanche spending priveleges - especially on a credit line that YOU will be 1/2 responsible for in the future.

But what is worse is the unresponsible spending that is going on under your nose.

You are going to have to make some real tough calls here. If you "grab" money from a joint account, it is going to be a "one trick pony" and you are going to have to have a legal plan in place.

Mehr, Maybe I've missed this but why can't you get an emergency hearing to get support for your kids from their loser father?

DD into an account that is in the red is of no use to you. You need money given to you, in YOUR account every week, or payday, so you can pay the bills and feed your kids! The money that is/will be owed to the account with the credit line is a seperate issue...I would definitely be arguing (through attorney) that he be responsible for paying that back.

I don't know. I asked about it and they are having trouble finding my WH to even serve him. You see, I do not know the address where he currently lives and his workplace is HUGE and has a gated entry... private property.... so he isn't even served yet.... maybe today?? Geez I hope so. What a nightmare. I can't afford for them to spend a ton of money just finding him, just getting a legal separation is a lot of money.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by mehr
Its like he's checked into virtual reality vacation...

Yeah, right.
MrRollieEyes
Except for some minor details like .....

Quote
4 kids: 6, 4, 3, 1

Pretty sobering ....

I know, right!!! He has lost his mind!! I am by far the better woman.... I do not get it. I just keep saying that "I do not get it" also "this does not make sense"

This does not make sense...
If his direct deposit comes in tomorrow morning, I could possibly pay it off and cancel the credit line. That is what I will try tomorrow morning.

You may be better off keeping all of the cash, and letting the credit line float for now. I don't know. Sounds like you are in for a fight.

What about appealing to his family? or the local church or food bank? Surely there are people who can help you right now?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
If his direct deposit comes in tomorrow morning, I could possibly pay it off and cancel the credit line. That is what I will try tomorrow morning.

You may be better off keeping all of the cash, and letting the credit line float for now. I don't know. Sounds like you are in for a fight.

Its a risk.... but if he doesnt change the direct deposit, I pay it off and just buy groceries... I may be able to get another paycheck out of it.... know what i mean? It feels like I am in a game of russian roulette, trying to make sure the kids and I aren't the biggest losers....

I already know that once the legal sep is through, he is going to be far better off than we are. The court won't take enough money for us, we will get around 50% for 5 people and he will get the other 50%.... that's crap.

So he can continue on his vacation....

SIGH. IS THERE ANY HOPE.... where is the guy that I would have, before this, always described as reliable, loyal, and dependable? He must be in that body somewhere. Please God, change his heart.
This is one of the oldest tricks in the WS playbook (to become irresponsible with money, and to "starve out" the family.)

Courts see this all. the. time.

Hold his feet to the fire.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by barbiecat
If his direct deposit comes in tomorrow morning, I could possibly pay it off and cancel the credit line. That is what I will try tomorrow morning.

You may be better off keeping all of the cash, and letting the credit line float for now. I don't know. Sounds like you are in for a fight.

Its a risk.... but if he doesnt change the direct deposit, I pay it off and just buy groceries... I may be able to get another paycheck out of it.... know what i mean? It feels like I am in a game of russian roulette, trying to make sure the kids and I aren't the biggest losers....

[color:#990000]I already know that once the legal sep is through, he is going to be far better off than we are. The court won't take enough money for us, we will get around 50% for 5 people and he will get the other 50%.... that's crap.[/color]
So he can continue on his vacation....

SIGH. IS THERE ANY HOPE.... where is the guy that I would have, before this, always described as reliable, loyal, and dependable? He must be in that body somewhere. Please God, change his heart.
Who told you this?
I would second the local church avenue. My girlfriend used to work at one and they do provide emergency assistance to families. I'm sure any church will be happy to assist you and your children with what you are going through.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by barbiecat
If his direct deposit comes in tomorrow morning, I could possibly pay it off and cancel the credit line. That is what I will try tomorrow morning.

You may be better off keeping all of the cash, and letting the credit line float for now. I don't know. Sounds like you are in for a fight.

Its a risk.... but if he doesnt change the direct deposit, I pay it off and just buy groceries... I may be able to get another paycheck out of it.... know what i mean? It feels like I am in a game of russian roulette, trying to make sure the kids and I aren't the biggest losers....

[color:#990000]I already know that once the legal sep is through, he is going to be far better off than we are. The court won't take enough money for us, we will get around 50% for 5 people and he will get the other 50%.... that's crap.[/color]
So he can continue on his vacation....

SIGH. IS THERE ANY HOPE.... where is the guy that I would have, before this, always described as reliable, loyal, and dependable? He must be in that body somewhere. Please God, change his heart.
Who told you this?

The lawyer. Now if he made twice as much money, we would get a lot more. But the issue is that the court won't take so much money from him that he can't afford to survive, and he doesn't make enough money to support two households. So we lose. It sucks.
[quote=mehr CANNOT take the money out of the account because there is NO MONEY. We are in the red.... literally. He is using the credit link attached to the account, knowing we are negative, to go on dates.The real money is already spent. [/quote]

Ok if they do not let you cancel the credit line account, have them reduce the amount of available cash to what you owe. Then you do not have to worry about paying it all back and save the cash for your family.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 08:30 PM
Oh man there is a check in the mail for his car..... he got in an accident... he wants to use it to buy a used car to replace his current one.... I don't want to just hand him all this money. We are negotiating through the intermediary. I just sent a msg that we can't afford the car he picked out. Pray this doesn't go badly, that he doesn't think I am being vindictive, but I am NOT just going to hand him this much money to go buy himself a nice new car. No.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 08:30 PM
He needs to stop this craziness and come home!!!
Originally Posted by mehr
Oh man there is a check in the mail for his car..... he got in an accident... he wants to use it to buy a used car to replace his current one.... I don't want to just hand him all this money. We are negotiating through the intermediary. I just sent a msg that we can't afford the car he picked out. Pray this doesn't go badly, that he doesn't think I am being vindictive, but I am NOT just going to hand him this much money to go buy himself a nice new car. No.

split the money, tell him that is how Divorces work .
It's marital money. Tell him you want half of it. Forum members- what the H can she do about this? She cannot just cash it if her name isn't on the check.

Dammit, too bad you didn't toss the check in the trash. You really need something legally binding here.
mehr, whose name is on the check?
can't she deposit the $$ in the joint account and then make a withdrawal two separate transactions.............if it's in his name.....and they have a joint account........
Someone has to endorse the check...
Actually, if for example the check is made out to him and they have a joint account, no endorsement is needed. She just writes the a/c number on the back. Then she can transfer out her half.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:08 PM
It says to Mr. Mehr AND Mrs. Mehr :P

Awesome....

Well I decided after a few messages that this particular issue needed a phone call. I know that he wants to think I am vindictive and a witch, so I wanted to use tone of voice to be reasonable but have boundaries. But... he did NOT answer the phone. So I sent a text directly to him "call when you want to talk about the car"

He texted back "what is there to discuss?"

Then when I didn't respond "I need a new car. what is there to discuss?"

I still didn't respond. He will have to call me, and I have all the time in the world. He can keep driving his junker while he works that one out. I am going to use my tone of voice and calmness to assert that I am not being vindictive but

1. We cannot afford the car he's picked out
2. The kids and I are in poverty, so I want half of the cash
3. He needs to be shopping for a van because we have 4 kids and I won't be dropping them off once the legal separation is through


Prayers!!! ... that I can be calm and kind while asserting these boundaries. I don't know how long it will take him to figure out he needs to call me.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:09 PM
By the way the fact that he is "Plan B"ing me is not a good sign for the marriage!!! frown
How often is he seeing his children?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:16 PM
Once a week on average? It tends to be two days in a row and then about 10 days before he sees them again. Why do you ask?
Originally Posted by mehr
It says to Mr. Mehr AND Mrs. Mehr :P

Prayers!!! ... that I can be calm and kind while asserting these boundaries. I don't know how long it will take him to figure out he needs to call me.

Who cares if he is Plan B'ing you. DO NOT GIVE HIM THE CHECK. He will just sign your name. Need to meet at the bank, sign the check together and then transfer your 1/2 out. Send a note to the IM that the vehicles he is looking at is overbudget with 5 other people in the family. Please look at cars with your half of the insurance money.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Originally Posted by mehr
It says to Mr. Mehr AND Mrs. Mehr :P

Prayers!!! ... that I can be calm and kind while asserting these boundaries. I don't know how long it will take him to figure out he needs to call me.

Who cares if he is Plan B'ing you. DO NOT GIVE HIM THE CHECK. He will just sign your name. Need to meet at the bank, sign the check together and then transfer your 1/2 out. Send a note to the IM that the vehicles he is looking at is overbudget with 5 other people in the family. Please look at cars with your half of the insurance money.

I have to be careful here. I am an ENTJ and he wants to think of me as a harsh mean lady, he has told me as much. So my response to D-day surprised him, he said that many times too. I don't want to fulfill the part of him that WANTS to think that. But I do want to have good boundaries and draw a line. So this is why I think that breaking Plan B once is a good idea, in this one instance. But I have been doing a very dark Plan B.... now I know why its been so easy, he must have no desire to contact me since he didn't even answer when I called him. SIGH.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:23 PM
As in, he thinks she is "sweet" and I am "cold" -- that's not true at all, but that's the way he's spent time painting it.
I wouldn't break B for this.

Do not try to contact him again. Go darker now again. Stop breaking plan B.

Do not text him. Block his number from texting you.

The check? If you have an attorney, call them and ask what to do. If you don't (I forget if you do), call one and ask over the phone for quick info. It should be free info. Super common and simple and an attorney wouldn't mind telling you if they might end up with you as a client some day.

Meanwhile, make a copy of the check.

Perhaps an attorney will tell you that
you will need to write
"deposit only to account (then your bank account number)"
so that WH would have to scratch it and initial it or be unable to cash/deposit it elsewhere.

Don't panic.

Breaking B is a slippery slope. You will find reasons to do it along the way but you never really have to! See it a your personal challenge to ride through with knowledge and creativity to not break it.

You just set things back to zero for you and your WH in his affair.

Be still.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:42 PM
Oh man I just remembered that tomorrow he is seeing the kids. Now I am worried he will try to talk to me about it in person, and I don't want that. On the phone it would be easier to maintain my cool and remember what I want to say....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by reading
I wouldn't break B for this.

Do not try to contact him again. Go darker now again. Stop breaking plan B.

Do not text him. Block his number from texting you.

The check? If you have an attorney, call them and ask what to do. If you don't (I forget if you do), call one and ask over the phone for quick info. It should be free info. Super common and simple and an attorney wouldn't mind telling you if they might end up with you as a client some day.

Meanwhile, make a copy of the check.

Perhaps an attorney will tell you that
you will need to write
"deposit only to account (then your bank account number)"
so that WH would have to scratch it and initial it or be unable to cash/deposit it elsewhere.

Don't panic.

Breaking B is a slippery slope. You will find reasons to do it along the way but you never really have to! See it a your personal challenge to ride through with knowledge and creativity to not break it.

You just set things back to zero for you and your WH in his affair.

Be still.

I haven't been breaking it though. I worry that through text everything will come across so cold and vindictive. ???
Tomorrow, do not talk to him about it in person. If he approaches you and gets to in front of you....say "I am sorry, we will resolve issues through the intermediary." Then, bat your eyes, give a cute half smile and leave.
Go back to the safe haven of your castle walls.
texting is breaking it though.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:49 PM
I haven't talked to him since 4/14 directly in any way.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 09:50 PM
oh, right, the text.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/11/11 10:49 PM
Ok I sent a message through the intermediary that he needs to find a vam about half that, since we have 4 kids and I won't be able to drop them off much longer.

No response yet. I am super depressed tonight, since he is clearly ignoring me and hates me.... probably never going to come back..... our poor kids frown
Originally Posted by mehr
Ok I sent a message through the intermediary that he needs to find a vam about half that, since we have 4 kids and I won't be able to drop them off much longer.

No response yet. I am super depressed tonight, since he is clearly ignoring me and hates me.... probably never going to come back..... our poor kids frown

You don't know he won't come back. I think the real question is will you WANT him back by the time he does.

Yes, your poor kids....it is not ideal being from a divorced family. However, this is not YOUR fault....you didn't cause it and you can't cure it. You just have to be the best mom you can be with the circumstances you have in front of you.


(((Mehr)))
Okay, My head hurts from all of the smacking I have been doing to my forehead reading what you have been writing about.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Yes, you are MAD. That is when you need to stay in Plan B even more. And all of this talking through the intermediaries, what for? YOU figure out what you are going to be able to legally do with the cheque. Don't let him see your hand. This is a WAR and you intend on winning, right?

Also, do you understand that you are in Plan B. That means that what type of car he buys, or doesn't, is no longer any of your concern. You need to get that line of credit paid off. Then, you take half of the money left over. That's where your interactions with your WH about that cheque begins and ends. GET OUT OF THE DRAMA.

Look, you started out today worrying about how you were going to shut down that line of credit and feed your children. Your answer came when that cheque came in. Take the chance you have been given. It could not have worked out better for you than it did right now.

You DID break Plan B, and you intended on breaking it even more by talking to him. DON'T DO IT. There are going to be many more times when you are going to want to break Plan B, but none of them will ever be worth it.

And, if your WH comes and tries to talk to you directly, you say, every time, over and over if necessary, "Are you ready to end all contact with OW for life?" Unless his answer is yes, you say, "Contact my IM when you have." AND WALK AWAY, HANG UP. Whatever.

You were worried that he was using the IM. Well, of course he was. He got YOU to break Plan B and play into his hands and game. STOP THE INSANITY. GET OUT OF THE DRAMA. That is what Plan B is for.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Also, do you understand that you are in Plan B. That means that what type of car he buys, or doesn't, is no longer any of your concern. You need to get that line of credit paid off. Then, you take half of the money left over. That's where your interactions with your WH about that cheque begins and ends. GET OUT OF THE DRAMA.


You were worried that he was using the IM. Well, of course he was. He got YOU to break Plan B and play into his hands and game. STOP THE INSANITY. GET OUT OF THE DRAMA. That is what Plan B is for.


The first part.... I am concerned about what car he buys because I KNEW from Plan A time that he was looking at cars we CANNOT afford. I am not about to hand over this check and have him using even a couple hundred from our account. He DOES NOT GET IT.... WE DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY.... somewhere in his brain, in the fantasy, we are able to afford this.


So.... you think he wanted me to break Plan B so he could be the strong one? I am not following what you mean exactly.
Originally Posted by mehr
I haven't been breaking it though. I worry that through text everything will come across so cold and vindictive. ???

Sorry, but, who cares if he thinks you're cold and vindictive. He, after all, hasn't given much thought to how you feel through all this, has he?

Don't you dare say a word to this man other than asking him if skank is still around. Ok?

Go to the bank with this check, deposit it and hope like hell that you can withdraw half of it the same day. They may require you to wait until it clears.

Then take your half, pay whatever bills you need to pay and when he raises a stink about it just ask if the skank is still around.

Who cares what kind of car he buys. Not your problem.

C'mon mehr, don't start slipping now, ok? You've been doing real good here.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 12:48 AM
My 4 year old says she does not want to see daddy tomorrow. She wants to hang out with me, she says. "I'm so sad at daddy because you never came home..."

frown frown
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 12:52 AM
she says "I don't like him and I don't want him to see this girl." frown
The children are working out stuff for themselves. It is so tough to deal with.
I usually say to my kids "I understand. I love you. I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I am here for you. You can count on me."
Ok Mehr.

Time to get the lawyer to WORK for you (and do WHAT YOU SAY) rather than the other way around. I would call my attny in the am and say the following:

1)I cannot feed my kids as we have no money
2)I NEED AN EMERGENCY HEARING asap b/c we aren't being given money from my cheating husband who is spending it on the ow while we starve.
3)he got A HUGE CHECK because he wrecked his car and is trying to use ALL THAT MONEY to buy a brand new car he can't afford to impress his mistress rather than giving me half since I can't eat.
4)Since he is emotionally disturbing the children, I am asking you to NOW SET UP AN EMERGENCY HEARING FOR ME and I WANT SOLE CUSTODY OF THE KIDS.
5)WH barely sees the kids anymore, muchless provides for us at all.
6)I may not be worth much now, but I am a human, and as my attorney, I employ YOU.

Next call the local wic agency and find out about the SNAP food program for those who are in dire need. Right now you qualify.

You see, once I remember eating only spaghetti because I had to give my son and pets the food with meat back when I was so broke b/c my xwh did the same thing. Claimed he couldn't pay cs or anything and I had just started all over again in a far away state with no family. Few friends. I was financially ruined by the man, but went to court and fought and fought and then got some justice.

It took a few years to get the final justice though.

Right now girl, you're fighting a full fledged alien. Imho, any man who wouldn't feed his own kids before the belly of a tramp is no man at all. A pathetic creature.

it's time to stand tough Mehr. You do WHATEVER you can for your children. You stand up to the evil and go plan B on him and also secure full custody. This guy doesn't want kids around his fantasy affair.

My xwh did the same thing. On weeks when his wistress wife didnt' have visitation with her child from a prior relationship (she was never married, and her xboyfriend had PRIMARY custody of their son..what kind of mom has that? A SLEAZY one who was shacking up with a married man, that's who!), they would go out and pretend they were dating. Freaky scary.

My xwh crapped away over 120k before we could get him into court, rest he hid with inlaws and more he hid overseas. All we could trace was approx 120k. It was disgraceful.

Quit w/the emotions Mehr. Right now you have kids who are devastated, and a cupboard which might be bare. YOU have to take some action right now to do what is right for those kids! You call your parents, your inlaws, anybody who can help and tell them "My husband is having an affair, spending $ left and right on the other woman and leaving us to starve with no money and FOUR children."

You call the attorney first in the morning! Next, the local wix office and get some food assistance or call a local church. Quit worrying about what the wayward is or is not doing.

If you take care of business, I sure DO know what your wayward WILL BE DOING SOON if he doesn't keep up his responsibilities. He will BE DOING TIME. Have your attny ask him how he feels about the color orange. Is it his color?

Time to be tough. Right now is not about marriage building. Or affair stopping. It is about RAISING CHILDREN AND BEING A RESPONSIBLE PARENT. And that also means going to court to support them and to secure their not so distant futures by having them reside WITH YOU ALONE due to the extreme emotional abuse handed down by their uncaring and unproviding father who has ABANDONED the family.

Here's your grounds in case you forgot and the basis for you getting an emergency hearing for the establishment of support and custody:
1)abandonment: he left the home and marriage and children to go and live with another woman, a married one (isn't she?)
You don't even KNOW where he lives anymore.
2)adultery: he is living with his affair partner in plain sight
3)emotional abuse: You are traumatized by this event, by the sheer abandonment and the kids are devastated, crying, sobbing, and worried about what will happen to them and why their daddy DOESN'T SEE THEM anymore.
4)financially impoverished: He refuses to pay any amount of money or a fair amount towards child support (WHICH SHOULD BE SUBSTANTIAL IF FOUR KIDS..HE WILL BE LIVIN MEAGER NOT YOU MEHR!)He has provided NO financial help and only pays for dates with his mistress, and is trying to buy a BRAND NEW CAR after wrecking his present car, and steal JOINT FAMILY MONIES in order to do so.
5)You're starving! You all need THE BEST SETTLEMENT you can get. The upper upper limit of the range of child support AND you also get SPOUSAL support, since you're mom to all four kids.
6)Because of the emotional abuse of the kids and their being completely distraught and his absence and abandonment of the kids, YOU SEEK FULL CUSTODY of the kids.

This is what you ask for and what YOU TELL THAT D@MN ATTORNEY TO DO FOR YOU TOMORROW MORNING AS SOON AS THEIR SHOES WALK IN THEIR LEGAL OFFICE.

Trust me, there's nothing more a family judge hates to see than a man run off and squander family assets, spending like he's Trump, while he abandons his wife and kids leaving them to hang in the breeze, suffering. NO judge allows that to happen. And if your wh doesn't comply when you get your emergency decree, he will go to jail.

Stick to plan B too. Let wh hear from the IM AND YOUR LAWYER AND THE JUDGE NOW.

Look Mehr. With a little security and peace of mind and money in the bank and food on the table, life will not be as bad. Trust me, I've been here before. Once you can breathe a little, you begin the moving forward business, which is good smile.

maybe the wayward will wake up. Maybe not. But YOU will recover from this and move forward!

Albizia I hope you read this because this was directed soemwhat towards you too!!!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 01:55 AM
WH responded through the intermediary reminding me about the money I moved within a few days of D-day to my parent's account. I moved it because 1/2 of it is going to our property tax which should be coming in the mail this month, we have to pay for the whole year. The other 1/2 is going for the lawyer and that is cutting it close. That's why I haven't been touching that money, its not just "free money up for grabs"

Anyway he said "you moved that money, and I need this money for a car, that is not asking too much"

Really? He is leaving us in poverty and he deserves a car?

Plan FU.... began. I AM ANGRY.

I left a message for the lawyer to call me back on my rights with this check. I want half of it. He can get a car payment after the legal separation goes through.
You have got to get your lawyer involved. I went on the believing my wayward and by the Grace of God was only saved by the military. My POSWH actually cut us off financially months ago thinking as a deployed soldier he could get away with it. The saddest part is I had to fight him tooth and nail with JAG. He was not going to pay.

Do not contact him, do not contact him. Everything goes through your lawyer. You better print out what Pep said and take it there in the morning. Add a Morals Clause to visitation also. You are now a German Shepherd and you will take downt he criminal.

You cannot think of your WH at the moment. He will screw you over until tomorrow. Maybe soon he will wake up and smell the roses, but as long as he is fogged out you have to treat him like a very high crack addict. What would you do if crack was his addiction? You certainly would protect your children and finances before you did anything else in your life!!!!

If you are a Christian woman you may want this prayer and say it daily: Acts 26:18 (fill in your WH name).

God Bless
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 02:12 AM
Sorry, he can get a VAN payment. Because I am not going to be dropping the kids off after the legal sep goes through. He better really figure that one out... he completely ignored that.
No plan FU. Put the anger in a box.

Steely resolve. Firm boundaries. Protection of your children and getting a hold of protecting the finances as best as a lawyer can.

Steely resolve. Your new mantra....at least for now.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 03:26 AM
I haven't let him know about any of my anger at all. I think he's baiting me, he WANTS me to get mad.... that's my suspicion. Again, I think he wants to see my as vindictive and cold. So.... like you said.... firm boundaries... continued Plan B....

I am seething tonight. Especially after looking at the bank account. He gets paid tomorrow and after paying off the credit line there is likely to be about 100 dollars for the whole week. Unbelievable.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 04:56 AM
Its been a rough day..... tomorrow I drop kids off for "visitation" and I don't want to. They come home so confused and unhappy. I wish he would just stay away if he is going to do this to them.

It is still so confusing to me how he can go from Plan A, where he really liked/loved/missed me to easily accepting and possibly even enjoying Plan B, where he seems cold and far off. I just don't get it. I know -- I am not supposed to think about it-- but how can I not?

I get to thinking maybe I am just wasting my time and money and I should have just gone for the divorce.

I made a list of things to ask the lawyer tomorrow.
Originally Posted by mehr
Its been a rough day..... tomorrow I drop kids off for "visitation" and I don't want to. They come home so confused and unhappy. I wish he would just stay away if he is going to do this to them.

Then don't do visitation tomorrow.

He's acting like a POS and the kids are getting screwed up.

Simple as that.

Oh, and ditto what peachy said. Lest my post get censored, I'll leave my thoughts at that and hope that tomorrow goes better for you.
You can not pay off the credit line and starve your children. That is going to be a formula for disaster.

Did you have the credit line canceled/revoked/lower limited? Do not kid yourself, Mehr, WH is about to (and probably has) taken out other lines of credit.

Document everything you spend, places you go. keep all reciepts. In the end, when he has racked up thousands in debt (and is trying to deliver you HALF of the "marriage debt") you will need some documentation to prove you did not agree to money borrowed/spent. Your attorney should have already sent a cease and desist credit/selling note.

I am sorry if this upsets you, or you think I am just fanning flames. I assure you I am not.

The best you can do right now is to do everything in your power to make sure your name/credit rating is not attatched to those new cards.
I am so sorry that you are going through this.
You alrealdy HAVE taken out the money for an atty.

Time to spend some.

{{mehr}}
Mehr, THERE IS NO LONGER ANY "WE" IN PLAN B. That's what I don't think has fully sunk in yet. You need to concerned with YOU and YOUR children.

This is NOT atypical of a wayward. You were worried that your WH was unlike others, can you see the similarities now? They are selfish TURDS. They care about NO ONE but themselves. They will let their children starve, and they don't give a darn about the person whom they are married to. That's how they can be so cruel. They only care about themselves.

Now, what you need to do is let your WH learn what real consequences are. Let him fall on his AZZ.

Find out what you can do about the cheque, legally. Don't make it wishy washy either. Ask your lawyer, "If I deposit this cheque into a joint account, pay off line of credit(if you haven't already)and then take out half, will WH be able to do anything about it?" If the answer is, "Yes, he can XX," weigh out the pros and cons and see if it worth the risk. I would say that it is.

Mehr, new motto for you, "There is no WE in Plan B." Rinse and repeat as necessary. You need to do things to protect yourself and your children. You have a wolf in the hen house. Protect yourself.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 02:07 PM
Oh my goodness.... for some reason his check is SMALLER than usual.... so if I pay it off, there's 70 dollars left.... UMMM.... time to call lawyer...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 02:10 PM
Both of the lawyers are in court all morning..... ugh I am stressed.
Seek out the Paralegal or tell them it is an emergency- children are starving help WH is taking all the money. Go there and demand you be seen you have an emergency.

Your lawyer's office will find someone to help you (at least they should be).
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 02:25 PM
I called and paid off the credit line and they are going to have a paper for me to sign to cancel it, I'll drag all the kids in to do that.

There's 50 dollars left and I am going to go and take 25 of that. I do have some cash in the house I have been saving if I really need it, for food or something. Maybe we will qualify for food stamps soon.

I just think it needed to be paid off and closed.

Waiting to hear what I can do with this check though before I do anything.... I want half of it.... again, he will be able to afford a car/van payment since he will still have 50% of the income after the separation.
Yes, yes, yes you must push on the lawyer and relay how dire your financial sitch is. If they are a part of any size of firm, they have enough support staff that can get something going for you ASAP.
Originally Posted by mehr
I called and paid off the credit line and they are going to have a paper for me to sign to cancel it, I'll drag all the kids in to do that.

There's 50 dollars left and I am going to go and take 25 of that. I do have some cash in the house I have been saving if I really need it, for food or something. Maybe we will qualify for food stamps soon.

I just think it needed to be paid off and closed.

Waiting to hear what I can do with this check though before I do anything.... I want half of it.... again, he will be able to afford a car/van payment since he will still have 50% of the income after the separation.

Take all the $50 because he'd sure do it to you.

Like someone else said, this was probably a one-trick pony here and you won't get this chance again. Next time, I'd bet his paycheck goes into a separate account that you have no access to.

As for the insurance check, just get your half of it now. It's your money, too, because you are married to him. Got that? Don't hesitate with this kind of thing, because he'll screw you over before you can blink.
Originally Posted by mehr
Oh man I just remembered that tomorrow he is seeing the kids. Now I am worried he will try to talk to me about it in person, and I don't want that. On the phone it would be easier to maintain my cool and remember what I want to say....

I haven't finished reading yet but I sure hope you did not talk to him. You will have blown all of your hard work in PB if you did...will keep reading but DO NOT BREAK PLAN B.

If you did, your word now means nothing to him. You said "no contact" and then you contacted him. Do you see the discrepency here????
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Take all the $50 because he'd sure do it to you.

Like someone else said, this was probably a one-trick pony here and you won't get this chance again. Next time, I'd bet his paycheck goes into a separate account that you have no access to.

As for the insurance check, just get your half of it now. It's your money, too, because you are married to him. Got that? Don't hesitate with this kind of thing, because he'll screw you over before you can blink.


I suspect that's what has already happened and that is why his check is less than it usually is.....he has redirected part of his pay into a separate account.
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Take all the $50 because he'd sure do it to you.

Like someone else said, this was probably a one-trick pony here and you won't get this chance again. Next time, I'd bet his paycheck goes into a separate account that you have no access to.

As for the insurance check, just get your half of it now. It's your money, too, because you are married to him. Got that? Don't hesitate with this kind of thing, because he'll screw you over before you can blink.


I suspect that's what has already happened and that is why his check is less than it usually is.....he has redirected part of his pay into a separate account.

Agreed. Take all of the money. He does not get one dime to spend on his TrashHo.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 03:14 PM
I don't think he's directed any money anywhere, his check was only 50 dollars or so shorter than usual.... enough that maybe he worked a half day? Something like that? He is at an hourly job. If he were directing money I would think he'd do more than that.
It doesn't matter, take all of the money. $50 isn't nearly enough to support you and 4 children for a week so he gets none.

That is the consequence of having an A and recklessly spending money on POSOW.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 03:19 PM
Oh my goodness, I can't do it... there are two auto payments that are supposed to come out this week.... like the trash service.... I need them paid.... I have to leave at least some of the credit line.... this is so beyond control.

He is normally not like this. He has lost his mind.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
It doesn't matter, take all of the money. $50 isn't nearly enough to support you and 4 children for a week so he gets none.

That is the consequence of having an A and recklessly spending money on POSOW.

Its so angering!!! He spent 50 dollars on a "date night" two nights ago, and then 25 yesterday on eating out with her. What an idiot!!
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
It doesn't matter, take all of the money. $50 isn't nearly enough to support you and 4 children for a week so he gets none.

That is the consequence of having an A and recklessly spending money on POSOW.

Its so angering!!! He spent 50 dollars on a "date night" two nights ago, and then 25 yesterday on eating out with her. What an idiot!!

Send a message through the IM that he must stop spending money because there is not enough left to pay the bills.

Then do as we have said ~ go open up another account with JUST your name on it and begin transferring everything over so that you can pay the bills.

Can you open up a credit line in JUST your name and close the one with his name on it?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
It doesn't matter, take all of the money. $50 isn't nearly enough to support you and 4 children for a week so he gets none.

That is the consequence of having an A and recklessly spending money on POSOW.

Its so angering!!! He spent 50 dollars on a "date night" two nights ago, and then 25 yesterday on eating out with her. What an idiot!!

Send a message through the IM that he must stop spending money because there is not enough left to pay the bills.

Then do as we have said ~ go open up another account with JUST your name on it and begin transferring everything over so that you can pay the bills.

Can you open up a credit line in JUST your name and close the one with his name on it?

I have already sent that msg through the intermediary, he IGNORES it and goes out and spends anyway.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 03:33 PM
He seems to think he is entitled to spending on dates and that he is doing us some great favor by continuing his direct deposit. I am "applying" some of this to the situation since I haven't heard from him directly, but in Plan A he seemed to think he was being a stand up guy since he was allowing the direct deposit to continue, despite the fact that even then he was overspending and starting to drown us.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
It doesn't matter, take all of the money. $50 isn't nearly enough to support you and 4 children for a week so he gets none.

That is the consequence of having an A and recklessly spending money on POSOW.

Its so angering!!! He spent 50 dollars on a "date night" two nights ago, and then 25 yesterday on eating out with her. What an idiot!!

Send a message through the IM that he must stop spending money because there is not enough left to pay the bills.

Then do as we have said ~ go open up another account with JUST your name on it and begin transferring everything over so that you can pay the bills.

Can you open up a credit line in JUST your name and close the one with his name on it?

I have already sent that msg through the intermediary, he IGNORES it and goes out and spends anyway.

Everytime he does it, send another message. Ask the IM to pass the numbers along, i.e. "There is $___ dollars in the account and on Monday $____ are going out to pay the garbage bill. DO NOT WITHDRAW ANY MONEY."

Originally Posted by mehr
He seems to think he is entitled to spending on dates and that he is doing us some great favor by continuing his direct deposit. I am "applying" some of this to the situation since I haven't heard from him directly, but in Plan A he seemed to think he was being a stand up guy since he was allowing the direct deposit to continue, despite the fact that even then he was overspending and starting to drown us.

He's in full-blown lalaland. He isn't thinking. He is high on his A. Ignore what he "thinks". You are the only sane one right now so do what you need to to protect yourselves and your kiddos.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 03:38 PM
How long will he be high??

I hope the lawyer calls soon....
Originally Posted by mehr
I am seething tonight. Especially after looking at the bank account. He gets paid tomorrow and after paying off the credit line there is likely to be about 100 dollars for the whole week. Unbelievable.

Do not pay off the credit line....just adjust the credit line to what you owe and then pay minimum payment so he cannot keep withdrawing from it. You need all cash on hand.
Originally Posted by mehr
How long will he be high??

As long as he's in contact with the crack pipe.
Originally Posted by mehr
I called and paid off the credit line and they are going to have a paper for me to sign to cancel it, I'll drag all the kids in to do that.

You should have not paid all of it. Just adjusted the limit but since you did GO TODAY and sign to cancel. You cannot leave this open even though you have payments to be made. Take the cash you have in reserve and deposit the day of auto payments so it goes out or cancel the auto pay and write checks.

He will continue to spend. You need to protect yourself. My XH put himself into full blown bankruptcy. They are truly out of their minds.

It is time to put on your shielf of armor and protect your family.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 04:00 PM
I tried to adjust the limit but they said I could not do it, I would have to go and apply for a new credit line. I weighed my options and decided closing it was preferable to him running up another huge debt by next week. I'd rather balance at zero than keep running negative.

The good news is that the food stamp people called and said she doesn't know an amount yet but I can pick up the card tomorrow.
Originally Posted by mehr
The good news is that the food stamp people called and said she doesn't know an amount yet but I can pick up the card tomorrow.

whoa whoa...first step in protection of your children. I would not advise your WH that you have gotten food stamps because then he might think it will give him the liberty to spend even more.
Originally Posted by hope3343
Originally Posted by mehr
The good news is that the food stamp people called and said she doesn't know an amount yet but I can pick up the card tomorrow.

whoa whoa...first step in protection of your children. I would not advise your WH that you have gotten food stamps because then he might think it will give him the liberty to spend even more.

Absolutely. In PB he does not need to know what you are doing anyhow.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 05:52 PM
I never told him about that.... are you crazy..... sly as a fox over here. He doesn't even know I applied for that or anything else.

Wayturd sent message through intermediary that I should give the insurance check to his parents so he can get a different car.

FAT CHANCE.

What are you doing with the insurance check? Are you waiting for an attorney to advise?

I'd cash it, take half and sock it away.

As for your garbage bill, pay it late if you have to choose between it and eating. Seriously. Just toss the trash bags in the backyard if you have to. It's not permanent, you won't always be living like this.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 06:31 PM
Yes I am waiting to hear from the lawyer.
You know, there's an old saying that seemed appropriate with regards to that check.

Sometimes it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Get where I'm going with that? If there were ever extenuating circumstances, I think now would apply.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 08:23 PM
Maybe.... but there's no harm in waiting either, with the check in my possession.

I just dropped the kids off and I have NOTHING to do because I have no money, not even gas money. So here I am at home. Think I will watch a movie and eat cookies without any little people begging me for some.

I need better plans for tomorrow ...
Originally Posted by mehr
Maybe.... but there's no harm in waiting either, with the check in my possession.

I just dropped the kids off and I have NOTHING to do because I have no money, not even gas money. So here I am at home. Think I will watch a movie and eat cookies without any little people begging me for some.

I need better plans for tomorrow ...

Don't hold that check too long. He could call the insurance company and say it is "lost" and have a new check issued. I have seen it all done before!
Mehr...WHY on earth are you allowing him to have the children at all? Why when he has abandoned the family home and is not providing?

If you want to get sole custody, you quit giving the babies over to the man who is inflicting emotional ABUSE upon them ok?

Let me tell you how I got the last emergency hearing. I went and patiently, right about fifteen min before 5 pm, and sat in the waiting room of the paralegal/laywer who is the asst to one of the judges. I talked to her friendly, had IN HAND in manilla folder, all the data showing my dire situation, and she felt so bad for me she walked in on the judge, showed him my docs (NO ATTORNEY WITH ME AT ALL) and told him I needed that emergency hearing. That was on a friday at almost 5 pm.

Xwh was served by the sherriff at 8 am saturday morning, telling him he had to be in court on monday. THE NEXT IMMEDIATE monday. That's what I'd do if I didn't have the kids with me. I'd march down to the courthouse. Tell them your lawyers won't get back to you, and that you're down to less than 75 bucks for you and your FOUR VERY SMALL CHILDREN. Show them proof of abandonment, affair, and the financial crisis.

YOU in the future, DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS GO with a man who is not interested in their survival or their well-being. If you are letting them go with the wayward for some sort of visitation, then it is if you are APPROVING of them being with a cad who could care less if he pays cs or alimony or even if they eat or if they cry and scream because the man lives with an adulteress.

Just use your head all the time. Take out ALL the emotions. Plan B and right now is also about Plan Mehr. Meaning YOU take back your family, your sanity, and your kids. YOU PROTECT YOUR KIDS!!! If you are not at a point where you will walk thru fire for them, uphill a 100 miles, or stare down a tiger, then you're not yet in mama GRIZZLY bear mode yet. YOU are fighting for the survival of your family now!!!

If my xwh Darth, even tries to hurt or bother my son one darn inch, I swipe him down legally with my paw and perfectly manicured nails. He never gets up. I stay on him until he is defeated. Always.

It is my way of the jungle now. This mama grizzly takes no prisoners. When is mama grizzly Mehr going to get in this mindset and do the same thing? DO IT NOW.

An unrepentant wayward when they are in full swing affair mode, will FINANCIALLY DESTROY their family. Get that? Do not allow him to do that.

All you are to do in plan B is worry about getting things as GOOD AS THEY CAN BECOME for you and the kids. You can make things really hard on their affair, take away their play money (which is YOUR MONEY), and inject a huge amount of reality into their sick little rutting lair. Other than doing that, you don't care what he does, what he eats, is the ws eating, is he able to drive a car, is he able to do a darn thing. YOU GO DARK. The only way plan B is ever lifted is that he agree to immediatley end the affair, send a NC letter, and impliment a willingness to work with Dr. Harley AND ALSO SIGN A POST NUPTIAL AGREEMENT GIVING YOU EVERYTHING or else the idiot doesn't even come home, even if he tries.

Do you get it? It is no longer about him. It is about you, the kids and survival. And about you getting and hitting the affair HARD. YOU secure safety and sole custody of the kids to keep them from dealing with more pain of having to be around them as its' breaking their heart. YOu deal with getting monies together to be able to have a safe and happy home. And YOU work on Mehr becoming ao gorgeous strong and independent woman.

If you want to know what I used to play on my Ipod when I went thru this, here are some tunes to take you out of feeling sorry for yourself:

[list]
[*]Survivor by Destiny's Child, Fighter by Christina Aguilera, and Before He Cheats by Carrie U.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
[quote=mehr]
Don't hold that check too long. He could call the insurance company and say it is "lost" and have a new check issued. I have seen it all done before!

Good point! I will go tomorrow. I jsut really want to hear from the lawyer on it, since like I said, he referenced some money I "took" back in March right after d-day. I need to make sure I do the right thing.

Also since it says Mr. AND Mrs. I am pretty sure I can't cash it even if I want to. I could deposit it but I don't trust it sitting there for a couple days. Its puts me in an icky position.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Mehr...WHY on earth are you allowing him to have the children at all? Why when he has abandoned the family home and is not providing?

If you want to get sole custody, you quit giving the babies over to the man who is inflicting emotional ABUSE upon them ok?

Let me tell you how I got the last emergency hearing. I went and patiently, right about fifteen min before 5 pm, and sat in the waiting room of the paralegal/laywer who is the asst to one of the judges. I talked to her friendly, had IN HAND in manilla folder, all the data showing my dire situation, and she felt so bad for me she walked in on the judge, showed him my docs (NO ATTORNEY WITH ME AT ALL) and told him I needed that emergency hearing. That was on a friday at almost 5 pm.

Xwh was served by the sherriff at 8 am saturday morning, telling him he had to be in court on monday. THE NEXT IMMEDIATE monday. That's what I'd do if I didn't have the kids with me. I'd march down to the courthouse. Tell them your lawyers won't get back to you, and that you're down to less than 75 bucks for you and your FOUR VERY SMALL CHILDREN. Show them proof of abandonment, affair, and the financial crisis.

YOU in the future, DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS GO with a man who is not interested in their survival or their well-being. If you are letting them go with the wayward for some sort of visitation, then it is if you are APPROVING of them being with a cad who could care less if he pays cs or alimony or even if they eat or if they cry and scream because the man lives with an adulteress.

Just use your head all the time. Take out ALL the emotions. Plan B and right now is also about Plan Mehr. Meaning YOU take back your family, your sanity, and your kids. YOU PROTECT YOUR KIDS!!! If you are not at a point where you will walk thru fire for them, uphill a 100 miles, or stare down a tiger, then you're not yet in mama GRIZZLY bear mode yet. YOU are fighting for the survival of your family now!!!

If my xwh Darth, even tries to hurt or bother my son one darn inch, I swipe him down legally with my paw and perfectly manicured nails. He never gets up. I stay on him until he is defeated. Always.

It is my way of the jungle now. This mama grizzly takes no prisoners. When is mama grizzly Mehr going to get in this mindset and do the same thing? DO IT NOW.

An unrepentant wayward when they are in full swing affair mode, will FINANCIALLY DESTROY their family. Get that? Do not allow him to do that.

All you are to do in plan B is worry about getting things as GOOD AS THEY CAN BECOME for you and the kids. You can make things really hard on their affair, take away their play money (which is YOUR MONEY), and inject a huge amount of reality into their sick little rutting lair. Other than doing that, you don't care what he does, what he eats, is the ws eating, is he able to drive a car, is he able to do a darn thing. YOU GO DARK. The only way plan B is ever lifted is that he agree to immediatley end the affair, send a NC letter, and impliment a willingness to work with Dr. Harley AND ALSO SIGN A POST NUPTIAL AGREEMENT GIVING YOU EVERYTHING or else the idiot doesn't even come home, even if he tries.

Do you get it? It is no longer about him. It is about you, the kids and survival. And about you getting and hitting the affair HARD. YOU secure safety and sole custody of the kids to keep them from dealing with more pain of having to be around them as its' breaking their heart. YOu deal with getting monies together to be able to have a safe and happy home. And YOU work on Mehr becoming ao gorgeous strong and independent woman.

If you want to know what I used to play on my Ipod when I went thru this, here are some tunes to take you out of feeling sorry for yourself:

[list]
[*]Survivor by Destiny's Child, Fighter by Christina Aguilera, and Before He Cheats by Carrie U.

Nothing that you say seems to ring a bell for me. I am told if I keep the kids from him when he asks that will HELP his case.

Even with sole custody he gets visitation. The courts don't care how sad they are.

That's how it works here.... I don't know what else to say....

I am just trying to protect MYSELF by letting him see them. I don't want to look bad in a court case.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 09:04 PM
I have ASKED for emergency child support..... I am feeling really ignored by my lawyer who has still not called me back..... I know they are busy, but I have no money..... this is so ridiculous.
Oh honey -- Your WH does not want custody of those children.
You really don't need to worry about how you will look in a court case.

He wants to be a single guy having fun with his young OW.
He doesn't want to be daddy -- and certainly not fulltime daddy.
He is counting on you to be a good momma. And he just wants to see them now and then.

If you make the rules, he will follow them.
All he tried to do was show off for OW. And used your kids to do it. You have to put a stop to it. He will follow your rules.




Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Oh honey -- Your WH does not want custody of those children.
You really don't need to worry about how you will look in a court case.

He wants to be a single guy having fun with his young OW.
He doesn't want to be daddy -- and certainly not fulltime daddy.
He is counting on you to be a good momma. And he just wants to see them now and then.

If you make the rules, he will follow them.
All he tried to do was show off for OW. And used your kids to do it. You have to put a stop to it. He will follow your rules.

You're right, he doesn't want custody... he has never asked for custody... he just wants to dump 4 kids on me.... maybe I will cancel tomorrow, if the kids come back upset. He's just seeing them a few hours each day.

The lawyer called and said I can cash the check if I want, its my money too. Now I just have to see if the bank allows me to cash it with just my signature. ...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 09:32 PM
What happens if I cash it and WH gets a car loan without my permission? Won't I owe half the loan?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 09:42 PM
Well the bank is going to be closed before I can get there so I will go in the morning. I pray they will cash it even though it only has my signature and it has two names on the check.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/12/11 10:37 PM
Guys..... my sister in law says that marriage builders and not talking to my husband is unbiblical... and that I should do the love dare instead.....
I have been reading and posting here for a little over three years. My husband and I have been SUCCESSFULLY following the MB program since February of 2010.

I have found nothing in MB that is contradictory to the Bible. Instead, it provides the most practical approach in dealing with a difficult situation.

BUT, you have to follow the program with as little deviation as humanly possible. Not the approach you have been using so far. I understand how difficult it is. I have been there and did not always follow the program as closely as I would have wished.

AM
Originally Posted by mehr
Guys..... my sister in law says that marriage builders and not talking to my husband is unbiblical... and that I should do the love dare instead.....

Is your SIL either a bible scholar or a licensed psychologist? If not then why bother stressing yourself out with her opinions?

Dr. Harley is a Christian. He recommends nothing that is anti-biblical. Many of us here are Christians who would not blindly follow advice that was anti-biblical.

Relax. You are fine. smile
Marriage Builders is logical. It is fair. It is respectful. It rocks.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 12:36 AM
So great, my in laws brought and paid for take out. So WH didn't have to worry about actually feeding the kids. Then my mother in law went to tball practice WITH him and the kids. So he didn't have to watch 4 kids on his own. Meanwhile we have no money for food let alone take out, and when I take them to tball I have to watch all of them on my own. It feels frustrating.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 12:59 AM
If I cash this whole check and keep it, he is going to be seriously angry. Won't that hurt chances of recovery? Selfish move?
MEHR!!!!!

STOP IT!

Woman up! Stop worrying about hurting your chances of recovery. You need to take care of your children. But you're cowing to this [censored] who doesn't even care if his children HAVE FOOD!

What is the matter with you? Stop this. You are smarter than this. You are braver than this. You are better than this.

Cash the everloving check. If he gets mad- why the heck do you care? Will him being mad over a check ever even compare to how RIGHTFULLY ANGRY you should be at him right now?

Look. I know this is hard. I've stood in your shoes. It got ugly. My husband said awful things and did awful things. But do you know what changed the tide? Pepper and Melody and Scot and Markos told me to WOMAN UP and fight like the person they knew I could be. I stopped worrying about him being mad at me. I stopped. And I acted.

If you have to, you go stand in that lawyer's office in the morning and get an order for support down. Cash that check. Take YOUR money. And stay the heck away from your husband and his enabling parents- while he is out screwing someone else.

Trust me. Right now? He isn't worried even a little about whether or not you are mad at him. He isn't thinking about you at all- he's got a fictionalized version of you in his head, a horrible awful mean wife- who isn't you, and until that affair is busted up- he can't *see* you. He only recognizes the *you* he's created to allow himself to cheat on you.

Originally Posted by mehr
Well the bank is going to be closed before I can get there so I will go in the morning. I pray they will cash it even though it only has my signature and it has two names on the check.

Mehr, you might try this. Take that check to the bank and fill out a deposit slip for "less cash". Leave maybe $100 of the total of the check in the account and then take the rest in cash.

Hang out at the attorney's office if necessary! (Thanks Peachy!) If you've already paid a retainer, then you need to get tough with them. Bring ALL the kids with you, bet that'll get their attention (lol). Insist that they file a TRO immediately! They can even ask for an ex parte hearing (without notice to your husband) if you have proof (bank records) that he is purposely causing harm to your family by depleting the family income and wasting it on OW. The Judge will issue an immediate order ORDERING him to STOP doing certain things, it will set up visitation (if the Judge thinks it's appropriate) and will be in effect until a divorce is granted. You would then have a CERTAIN income to rely on for you and the kids.

I hope you are keeping meticulous records that will show a chronological snapshot of your financial situation throughout all of this. Keep a running tab of how much of the marital assets he is wasting on OW. If you get to divorce, you may be able to have that $$ deducted from his 1/2 of any assets awarded. Enforcing such a judgment may be tough, but it can be done (ask Hope, she did it... she's a hero in my book!).

If you're in a community property state, unfortunately you are going to be held responsible for 1/2 of the debts incurred up and to the date of separation (which will be stated in your original petition for divorce). Sadly, this may not stop the creditors from coming after you. Why am I telling you this? Because

LIFE IS NOT GOING TO GET BETTER AND THE MADNESS WON'T STOP UNTIL YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

If you haven't already, remove your name from any joint accounts and/or credit cards.

Please stop the insanity. STOP ALL communications. If there are financial decisions to be made, YOU make them. Why would you rely on a wayward to make ANY good decisions? Financial or otherwise.

Please, please, listen and act.

Hon, I KNOW how you feel. There are many of us here who know how bad it hurts. Heck, I ended up losing my home, my job, my car and my dignity when all of this went down in my life. I was DAYS away from the divorce when things finally turned around and the madness stopped.

HOPE is not a plan.

Dr. H's plans for "SURVIVING" an Affair are the best out there but they are USELESS if you don't follow them as prescribed.

If you keep going like you're going (wringing your hands, worrying and fretting about his every move, and HOPING that things will change), you're going to end up a divorced single mom struggling for the rest of your life -- but NOT because you're divorced, but because you refused to take charge of YOUR own life.

Even if you end up divorced (and that's not the worst possible outcome here) you CAN make a better life for you and your kids. It is possible!

Recovery is ALSO possible, but make it on your terms. If you do a TRUE Plan B, you will be amazed at how your outlook will change.

((Mehr))

Do you really want to be married that badly?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by RidicSit
MEHR!!!!!

STOP IT!

Woman up! Stop worrying about hurting your chances of recovery. You need to take care of your children. But you're cowing to this [censored] who doesn't even care if his children HAVE FOOD!

Oh, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to think like that.

Quote
Trust me. Right now? He isn't worried even a little about whether or not you are mad at him. He isn't thinking about you at all- he's got a fictionalized version of you in his head, a horrible awful mean wife- who isn't you, and until that affair is busted up- he can't *see* you. He only recognizes the *you* he's created to allow himself to cheat on you.

Oh.... right.... this makes sense....

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Dr. H's plans for "SURVIVING" an Affair are the best out there but they are USELESS if you don't follow them as prescribed.

If you keep going like you're going (wringing your hands, worrying and fretting about his every move, and HOPING that things will change), you're going to end up a divorced single mom struggling for the rest of your life -- but NOT because you're divorced, but because you refused to take charge of YOUR own life.

Even if you end up divorced (and that's not the worst possible outcome here) you CAN make a better life for you and your kids. It is possible!

Recovery is ALSO possible, but make it on your terms. If you do a TRUE Plan B, you will be amazed at how your outlook will change.

((Mehr))

Do you really want to be married that badly?

Okay. So what do I need to do? How can I do this better? Lay it out for me! I am being a slow learner....

Mehr,

I am a mom to four small babies like you. I have been cut off financially from my WH. I am eating beans/rice, and will probably head to food stamps soon (we used to make $200k together before this awful nightmare). Working with military lawyers to finally get some child support.

He is a deplorable wayward at the moment. I am in a dark Plan B, and I have hope to reconcile. My situation is close to yours.

One thing I am learning is the darker I stay the healthier I am becoming. The more I work on myself emotionally, physically, spiritually, and mentally, the more I realize I am a good wife, mother, friend, sister, and daughter.

You have to take a stance for you today. I am sorry you WH sucks. I am sorry my WH sucks. My life is black and white from the way it was before all because of an affair. My world crumbled like sand with this awful beast. I cannot control that now Mehr. I can only control my situation today. I have to start over today and be the best mom I can be for my four babies.

My POSWH wants to be a bachelor, still not sure if he is seeing POSOW, but he sure as heck doesn't want his family he created. He is running scared from life. I think he is having serious depression and narcissistic personality issues. Whatever the heck has his soul today I can do nothing about.

Our WH's aren't coming back today. They aren't man enough to pay for their four babies. They don't give a rats azz about us, our family, our life, our home, our history.

They have thrown away their heritage, their dignaty, their character, their integrity, their souls. It might seem like they are getting away with it because yes today they are getting away with their crimes.

Mehr - it will not be long that it starts to crumble. It won't be long before their guilt starts to consume them. They will wrestle in their sleep. They will try to keep the lies straight. Their world will slowly start to crumble, and time will have worn out the best of them.

Mehr - your WH may never walk through that door to kiss you on your lips again. You may never feel that clavicle in his chest. You may never give him a foot rub, or cook his favorite meal. I am sorry Mehr. We (You and I) have been thrown out like trash, and our children are now burden by becoming the landfill.

Mehr - please look at yourself today and realize you caused none of this. You have a chance to lay your head on your pillow tonight and have peace. Mehr - you have to let him go. You have to realize if you allow him to keep you in this state then you will forever be stuck and your life will be no better than his.

His life is already awful, horrible, terrible, deplorable -- Our WH's are turds.

Pick yourself up - realize you deserve an honest, open, trustworthy relationship filled with joy, happiness, and peace.

You have to stay in today, which means you have to put yourself and those babies above all else. Your Plan B if executed properly will get you to the next level. You just have to do ...
Originally Posted by mehr
So great, my in laws brought and paid for take out. So WH didn't have to worry about actually feeding the kids. Then my mother in law went to tball practice WITH him and the kids. So he didn't have to watch 4 kids on his own. Meanwhile we have no money for food let alone take out, and when I take them to tball I have to watch all of them on my own. It feels frustrating.

The same thing used to happen to me. It was incrediby unfair AND incredibly frustrating.

But the thing is...you shouldn't even know this. Protect yourself from obtaining this info. This isn't helping you.

Life is not fair ~ period. It will never be fair. The knowledge of this unfairness is only going to hurt you.

Stop getting this info.
Originally Posted by mehr
Okay. So what do I need to do? How can I do this better? Lay it out for me! I am being a slow learner....

Start with taking all of that insurance check for the support of you and the kids.

The bank may not cash it outright unless you have a matching amount in the account. They'll accept it for deposit, but funds may not be available immediately.

Who cares if he gets pissed.

Then do what the others suggested about camping out at your (starting-to-seem-lousy) attorney's office and get the courts involved with this.

This is nuts. You're on food-stamps and your mother-in-law is acting like a dingbat along with her son.

So do those two things tomorrow and get back some control over your life. You'll feel better.
Posted By: Xau Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 08:13 AM
Indeed take all the cash, his mother can feed him. Make sure you check the account early on a daily basis and draw the money before he get his paws on it.
Do his parents understand the entire situation?

Do they know there is less than a hundred dollars left to feed their grandchildren for 2 weeks?

I am sure that he has spun his "side" of to them. (you took all the money out, you have hidden cash...ect. ect)

Sometimes (not all) INL's and family can be helpful in getting some issues resolved.

I would tell them, and your fam, too. the simple facts, the facts only, and maybe there can be of help to you right now.

I would be angry as he(( if my sister was in a situation similar to yours and I was not privy to it.
Bring your "troops" around you.


Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by mehr
Okay. So what do I need to do? How can I do this better? Lay it out for me! I am being a slow learner....

Start with taking all of that insurance check for the support of you and the kids.

The bank may not cash it outright unless you have a matching amount in the account. They'll accept it for deposit, but funds may not be available immediately.

Who cares if he gets pissed.

Then do what the others suggested about camping out at your (starting-to-seem-lousy) attorney's office and get the courts involved with this.

This is nuts. You're on food-stamps and your mother-in-law is acting like a dingbat along with her son.

So do those two things tomorrow and get back some control over your life. You'll feel better.

Well there is ten dollars in the account, and I can't deposit it or he will withdrawl it. I'll just show up with the check and see if they will cash it or not. Then I can make decisions.

My in laws dont know about the food stamps. Anything they knoew, my husband might know, and I don't want him to know that.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by mehr
Okay. So what do I need to do? How can I do this better? Lay it out for me! I am being a slow learner....

Start with taking all of that insurance check for the support of you and the kids.

The bank may not cash it outright unless you have a matching amount in the account. They'll accept it for deposit, but funds may not be available immediately.

Who cares if he gets pissed.

Then do what the others suggested about camping out at your (starting-to-seem-lousy) attorney's office and get the courts involved with this.

This is nuts. You're on food-stamps and your mother-in-law is acting like a dingbat along with her son.

So do those two things tomorrow and get back some control over your life. You'll feel better.

Well there is ten dollars in the account, and I can't deposit it or he will withdrawl it. I'll just show up with the check and see if they will cash it or not. Then I can make decisions.

My in laws dont know about the food stamps. Anything they knoew, my husband might know, and I don't want him to know that.

Don't tell her about the food stamps but tell her about how there is $10 in the bank and you have no money to feed the kids.

And camp at your attorney's office with all four kids until he gets something done!!!!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 02:19 PM
I sent a text to my MIL about the state of the finances. We will see if she gets mad. Which she might.
Originally Posted by mehr
I sent a text to my MIL about the state of the finances. We will see if she gets mad. Which she might.

Stop trying to do what you "think" is the "right" thing and do what you can for your family. Who cares if your MIL gets mad. You are not a young girl waiting for approval but a mother with 4 children to feed.

Take that check NOW. Go to the bank and deposit it in a NEW account that you will set up today and deposit the full amount in. you might have to wait till the check clears. DO NOT PUT THAT CHECK in the joint account.

On the check sign your name and then under his name write "For XH full name". Bank will not question this. Don't point it out just DO.

I am giving you step by step instructions ...Learn NOW and DO...Please reread all of these posts and see the common theme.

You need to stop worrying about making him mad, or upsetting him. You are looking for your H and right now he is not there. PROTECT YOUR FAMILY.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 06:32 PM
I don't know what you mean by that. I am just going to sign it, walk in there and calmly ask to cash it. If they say no I am going to see if I can deposit and write a check for cash. If that's a no.... I don't know... atm? That wouldn't allow me to take it all out though.
Posted By: Xau Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/13/11 06:39 PM
You can't cash the cheque, cash can only be drawn once the bank has cleared it and that takes a few days. You may get away with depositing it into an account in your name as the cheque has your name on it as well, depends on the teller.
Originally Posted by mehr
I don't know what you mean by that. I am just going to sign it, walk in there and calmly ask to cash it. If they say no I am going to see if I can deposit and write a check for cash. If that's a no.... I don't know... atm? That wouldn't allow me to take it all out though.

Usually unless it is a certified check or money order the bank will hold it for 3 business days till it clears.

1. Call the bank and ask if you have to wait for an insurance check to clear or can you get cash immediately

2. If you can get cash, sign your name, under his name put "for WH name"...cash the check and leave

3. If the check has to wait 3 business days, do not put in joint account. You sign the check and put "for WH name" under his name. Create new account under your name ONLY. Deposit it there. Wait till it clears and remove your 1/2. At that point you should have heard from attorney.

It is Friday...you need to do this today so you have money over the weekend.
Right now, if you have time before 5 pm, go to the family court, where the divorces happen, or superior court, and enter the office of the judge. Talk SWEETLY and urgently to his assistant/paralegal/attny who is working with him. Hopefully you have with you all documentation.

If so, show them what is going on, show them you're broke and your H has abandoned the family, taken the money, you're starving along with your kids, and he's living with some other woman and refuses to give you his address.

Tell the person you need an emergency hearing NOW. That you can't live like this, have less than 100 to your name, and just got on food stamps because hs is STEALING YOUR ASSETS.

If you do this, I bet you will get an emergency hearing asap AND you do this without your attorney.

This is how I got my last emergency hearing. Do not be overly emotional, state the facts, but state them urgently. Show them your photos of kids if they aren't with you. Tell them your attny has not gotten back to you and you're frightened because you don't have monetary resources for your family and are concerned because YOU ARE THE GOOD MOM and b/c your H has ABANDONED your family, is having an affair, is not PROVIDING FOR THE CHILDREN, and because you are now in financial ruin.

Imho, this is worth a shot. If it worked for me then it will work for you. One thing I did was have with me all my legal docs and all information regarding to the emergency hearing I wanted. I showed how my xwh was a harm and unable to be a good parent to my child, how the situation had turned EXTREMELY DIRE and that something had to be done right now.

The assistant told the judge about me, he was taken my information and folder by his assistant, reviewed it, and being compassionate, with 10 minutes to 5 pm on a friday, he agreed to an emergency hearing the next monday. 3 DAYS LATER. My xh got served the next morning by the sherriff on a nice saturday. Boy was he surprised. So surprised, his attny couldn't make it on the next monday. smile

Do I have to say that I kicked his butt yet again?

Mehr, your mil is showing you that blood is thicker than water. Don't reason with her. She is enabling him and the affair. She may not be evil as my xmil and xfil are (horrible, evil enablers and affair-mongers themselves), but she is probably knowing her pos son will be going down very soon for what he has done (in the legal sense) and she just is in denial.

Either way, leave her be. Let her be misinformed, it's NOT ABOUT THEM ANYMORE. You are in plan B. Sooner or later your xmil and xfil and anybody who wishes to know WILL know b/c your xwh will be found guilty of abandoning his family and squandering joing assets illegally because he is in a sleazy affair and the ow's name will be forever on a legal document and I hope that b*tch gets grilled by the judge on the stand and has to recount in front of hundreds of strangers and townsfolk, maybe her neighbors even, how she conspired willingly with your wh to defraud his family and cheat them out of a dad, money, food to eat, a roof over their heads, and how she helped him break the heart of his wife too.

Soon enough this will come. But it WILL NOT HAPPEN unless you get to the judge or get somebody to that judge TODAY. Get tough Mehr. It is not about them now. Let the legal system and reality shoot em' straight between the eyes. They will feel that. Sometimes all you can do is let the law and let God deal with them.

Usually when this kind of stuff hits the fan is when the affairees rethink their sleazy situation. It becomes: too expensive, too embarassing, too messy, too complicated, no more mystery, no more fun, no more secret thrills for it's all out in the open. THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.

One day maybe he'll see the light and come home or he won't. Imho, now it doesn't matter b/c YOU ARE IN PLAN B which is plan recover, plan protect your kids, and plan protect your heart from the further destruction that is a severely wayward spouse.

Imagine a wayward (a really bad one) is like a tornado. They swirl around them, with danger flying around them sucking in people, things, until they become so destructive they take down anything in their paths. You prepare for that coming storm with a plan (MB). You were in plan A, which was to stop the storm, but it didn't. Now you're in plan B, where you hunker down, get in the storm shelter of plan B and ride out the storm. It will pass.

Trust me, every single wayward, including my xwh regretted what he did. He regretted everything. But that didn't stop him from doing horrible, harmful, evil things and squandering assets and ruining my credit. And I did as well as any bs could do in such a situation. Do you think my xwh cared if he squandered over 500k in assets, just BLOWING it on women, vegas, gambling, trips to the carribbean, sports cars, boats, presents, diamonds, and furniture? No. Not at all. He could spend all that and NOT PAY HIS 500 A MONTH CS AND 500 A MONTH SS.

Did he care that I had to start over all again, without any money, little savings (used that to pay attorneys), and alone? Did he care he ruined my credit? No. No. and No.

Never ask yourself "how could he do that" or cry over it. If they are wayward THEY WILL DO THAT and more if given any chance. So take it away from them. And also ask for SOLE CUSTODY OF THE KIDS. That's top.

Get to the d*mn judge now Mehr. Get tough! I'm tired of reading all this stuff. Get the $. Keep the $ let the court sort out what he gets to have and what HIS KIDS AND YOU NEED TO LIVE and how he needs to face reality.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/14/11 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Imagine a wayward (a really bad one) is like a tornado. They swirl around them, with danger flying around them sucking in people, things, until they become so destructive they take down anything in their paths. You prepare for that coming storm with a plan (MB). You were in plan A, which was to stop the storm, but it didn't. Now you're in plan B, where you hunker down, get in the storm shelter of plan B and ride out the storm. It will pass.

Trust me, every single wayward, including my xwh regretted what he did. He regretted everything. But that didn't stop him from doing horrible, harmful, evil things and squandering assets and ruining my credit.

Hunker down to weather the storm.... I like that one.

So.... I fell off the wagon today. Go ahead, get the 2 by 4's.... maybe a couple 4 by 4's.... I messed up.

My van wouldn't start. So I called my in laws, who live close, but they were out of town. So my WH had to come over and jump the van so I could drop the kids off at the in laws house. I couldn't help it, I asked him to stop what he is doing.

He said, "No. I don't want to."

Sounded a bit like a toddler...

When the kids overheard what I said they asked daddy to stop and come home too. He freaked out, "not in front of the kids."

By that point van was charged so we each got in our vehicle, drove to in laws (couple blocks), dropped kids off and I left. As I left I heard my 4 year old yelling at daddy "You are making bad choices! You need to stop!" (snicker)

He also showed some of his hand today.... whether intentionally or not. He brought a sprinkler for the kids. I asked how he paid for that? He said cash. I said how much cash do you have? He says, not much. Hmmmmmmmmmm. What really gets me is that I can't figure out how he got the cash.... maybe cashback at Walmart? There are no withdrawls. At best his most recent check was a bit small.....

So about the insurance check-- I cashed it. There was a little trouble with it, they had to call a manager, I had to play it cool ..... but I walked away with cash.

I got a food stamp card today too, the lady said there should be money on it by tomorrow. I actually started crying at the counter, I felt kind of stupid. But.... whatever gets the kids fed as I am trying to get through college.

Speaking of college-- did I mention I go back in a month? I was in college until my 4yo was born, so I have general classes done... it should take me 5 semesters (I hope) to become a nurse! smile

I am back on the Plan B wagon. I know after seeing how cold and uncaring he was today that this is the right thing. I couldn't be around that.... it would be too hard.... but I am sad that he doesn't seem to care at all. Its been one month since he was at home sleeping in my bed... and more than sleeping... ugh... and now he's acting like we're divorced and have been for a long time. Cold cold cold.

I will proceed with the plan and grow stronger.
Use a little $ to join AAA the car club. You can join as a single person (no family plan for you!)

Worth it.

The tow truck drivers will be your new guys to call first with car trouble. They are usually quick as a wink to arrive.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/14/11 03:35 AM
I think the final issue in the Plan B is the legal separation. Once that is through, I will tell him it is time to pick up his kids for visitation, and I will have my own bank account with my own money. I really need this.
Quote
Speaking of college-- did I mention I go back in a month? I was in college until my 4yo was born, so I have general classes done... it should take me 5 semesters (I hope) to become a nurse!

I am back on the Plan B wagon. I know after seeing how cold and uncaring he was today that this is the right thing. I couldn't be around that.... it would be too hard.... but I am sad that he doesn't seem to care at all. Its been one month since he was at home sleeping in my bed... and more than sleeping... ugh... and now he's acting like we're divorced and have been for a long time. Cold cold cold.

I will proceed with the plan and grow stronger.
hurray hurray

Mehr, you'll never be able to figure out why a WAYWARD does the things they do. If you do, you should figure out a way to bottle it and sell it. You'll be rich overnight!

Seriously, if there was ever a situation that called for Plan B, it's yours. I don't think you need to wait for a "legal separation" though because your WH is already out of the house. As long as you have separated your finances, arranged for a GOOD IM and child transfer, and have a STELLAR Plan B letter, you're good to go.

I think you'll be amazed at how Plan B will feel once you get there. It will be hard at first, very hard, but each day that passes in a SUCCESSFUL and TRUE Plan B, will get better and better.

Originally Posted by mehr
So about the insurance check-- I cashed it. There was a little trouble with it, they had to call a manager, I had to play it cool ..... but I walked away with cash.

Good to hear. Did you take all of it?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/14/11 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
As long as you have separated your finances,
I can't do this. He is my/our only income.

I have all the of money from the check and he does not know I cashed it.
Until you have a court order from him to do otherwise, keep the cash in a safe place. Make him do the leg work to get the cash from you.

If you can, only use it for food, gas, anything associated with your kids. Keep all the receipts.

Trust me a judge will look at your situation and will not bat at eye if you are using the money for your family. Once the judge hears the reasons your lawyer presents, the judge will have no option but to look at your WH with utter disgust, and then joking in his mind say,

"You POS - I should make you to take the bus or walk your azz everywhere!!"

The law will be on the side of you kids - don't worry!
Originally Posted by mehr
I have all the of money from the check and he does not know I cashed it.

Good job!
hurray
Mehr...good @ the check.

But PLEASE stop trying to find ways to suck in the wh or find out what is floating in wh's brain.

Right now, he did one good thing AND YOU BROUGHT THE KIDS TO THE IL'S HOUSE. Why why why why why why.

I told you, SOLE CUSTODY is the only way. YOu cannot show the courts you rely on the IL's or your WH in any way, and in plan B you cannot either.

Why why why do you try to engage EITHER of them. (wh or IL's). Look. The IL's are probably sad their son is a pos. I'd never myself allow my son to ever do that. But they did and NOW THEY ENABLE HIM.

So you're supporting THAT enablement system by bringing the kids over there and letting bad daddy see the kids. What did bad daddy do? Oh he jumped off the car.

I'll bet your neighbor would have done it or anybody ELSE IN THE WORLD BUT WH.

YES, btw, HE IS HIDING $ FROM YOU RIGHT NOW. I wouldn't be surprised if he did what my xwh did too...which was illegally gift it to his PARENTS and they also helped him hide the $ from me.

So they're in the enemy camp right now. Look Mehr. ANYONE WHO ENABLES THE AFFAIR IS THE ENEMY. Enemy of the marriage and family. So they fall into plan B too. And they are not to be trusted on any level.

Your wh knows his clock's gonna get cleaned by the judge. He will be viewed as a horrible person. Why on earth after that vehicle drove DID YOU NOT GO AND CAMP OUT AT THE JUDGES' OFFICE yesterday?

You need to be on your lawyers like fleas on a hound. They need to work for YOU. And they also need to find out where your wh is hiding money. THAT HAS TO HAPPEN TOO and another thing your attny needs to have the judge make him answer. If not, he can get thrown in jail.

Your wh is thinking of only one thing..MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME.

Not "uh oh, have I screwed up?"

Nope. Yours is bounding head first at top speed and if he's a tornado, I'd say he's a P-3 (Peachy scale 3) tornado and gaining strength as he and his evil, selfishness, and infidelity swirls around him going faster and faster. The only thing that can stop him IS THE JUDGE right now. The judge and something called reality.

Stop worrying about the

M. It is NOT a M right now anyway. And if and when he loses the wayward self, and wishes to return, then it is only up to YOU if you would even accept him back but that's so far away right now that you cannot think of it. Just know "he's danger. He's getting more wayward".

Odds are he's getting help in what to do from the ow or from your IL's. Did you ever btw have a woman to woman confrontation w//the ow? Did you? Did she ever hear the words that you will drag her into court, that she is going to be held accountable for her evil and disgraceful and nasty actions? Did she?

Good for the food stamps too. But Mehr. If it were me, even fi my car wouldn't start, I'd call my neighbor and have them DRIVE me to the damn judge.

You have to help stop the tornado right now. You have to secure an emergency hearing. Your lawyers don't seem very good to me right now, and they don't seem to want to fight for you or the kids at all. Just my .02. I'd almost demand my $ back and go call up every attny who is recommended well and ask "how mean are you? How could you help a mom of 4 kids who is basically starving and has been abandoned by their husband and father? How HARD WILL YOU LEGALLY FIGHT FOR ME?" I'd tell them I didn't have much money, but that I really needed strong legal help.

Your attny needs to know that either they do that (AND YOU TELL THEM WHAT i SAID..the how hard will you fight for us) or they're fired b/c they have not done one thing to help you in a very dire situation.

I had a lawyer who would file a motion so quick it would make your head spin during my time divorcing and separating from darth. You need one like that. and one who will actually GET AN EMERGENCY HEARING. If not, you tell them you're firing them, want your $ back, and will get an attny who will or YOU will. (after all I MYSELF WITHOUT ANY DAMN ATTORNEY GOT AN EMERGENCY HEARING FASTER THAN MY OWN PAID ATTNY'S DID FIVE YEARS EARLIER).

I know you want to hear hearts and flowers and how he will end with the ow and come back home and that you'll all forgive and forget but Mehr girl, that is NOT HAPPENING NOW AND MIGHT NOT.

The very best and only chance imho of the wayward ever reconsidering his position is for a few things to happen.
1)the court slams down on him so hard that he can't speak for days because the actual reality has hit him and shot him b/w the eyes.
2)he realizes that he won't have a swingin' rutting lair to take his wench posow. He won't be able to afford it.
3)he realizes the world WILL VIEW HIM AS THE AWFUL SWIRLING ADULTEROUS TORNADO after he takes the stand and has to ADMIT TO THE WORLD what he has done.
4)he might not see the ow as he did before, and neither will their home town or community after the posow takes the stand and is brought to her skanky and diseased knees as she has to explain to hundreds how she conspired to destroy a marriage and keep four precious children from having food on the table.
5)When people on the street will begin to hear of what he has done. When "word" other than from the exposure you did (hell I say keep on exposing always) makes things suddenly ANYTHING BUT FUN in affairland.

You see, the only thing you can do in plan B is let them see REALITY but take away the wayward glasses. Rip em' off. You let them see less money, everybody thinks they s*ck as people and are pos's, the affair is viewed as ugly, bad and the truth gets out, and that he's a horrible daddy and husband. Oh and you TAKE AWAY THE PLAY MONEY (your joint assets) FROM THE AFFAIR so the affair just isn't any more fun.

YOU CAUSE EXTREME STRESS AND HORRIBLE INJURY TO THE AFFAIR. Reality does that and the judge can be your friend. It is all how you paint it to the judge and if your attny can do a decent enough job at it.

Want to hear what my xwh was told (paraphrased) by the judge after he was discovered (it was valentine's day of all days, that i was in court for the emergency hearing)he'd squandered over 30k in assets OVER ONE WEEK and yet couldn't pay my cs or ss and refused to help us survive (my child and I) after he left?

The man (my xwh) wore a fine suit and his rolex watch into court that day striding in with an ego the size of godzilla. All puffed-up, prideful, and of course wayward. Across the courtroom was me, dressed in a nice dress. I was told by my attny to not wear my huge wedding ring (which I ended up selling to even afford to feed my child), and a nice church dress and flats.

My attny was good. He was like a local "matlock" and liked too. But he was sneaky. He found out the day before and got access to a secret bank account of my xwh and found out what he'd really done with the money and that there was NO REASON why he couldn't pay us just bare minimums and found more.

I was called to the stand (hundreds in the courtroom)and was scared to death but I was confident it had to be done. My attorney asked if I'd heard of such and such bank acct. I did not. He asked me to show him my own bank account. It was like yours, almost zero. I told him I'd fed my son well, giving him all he needed to eat, but that I'd lived off of spaghetti and sauce for about 2 weeks as I wasn't yet working but was interviewing for jobs. The judge looked horrified and turned and looked at me with compassion. Everybody in court was horrified too watching and hearing.

Then the attorney asked me if I knew where my husband who had ABANDONED me was the weekend before (my attny kept using key words and emphasized them always like ADULTERY ABANDONMENT, MENTAL CRUELTY, ABSENT FATHER, ETC). I said I had no idea where he was (I was in plan B). He told the court that my xwh had been in Las Vegas, spent over 20k gambling and staying in one of the finest suites at Cesar's Palace, that he'd also spent 12k on furniture for his rutting pad, and that as of the day before, for Valentine's day, he'd sent TWO DIFFERENT WOMEN two dozen roses, and spent over 500 on Victoria's secret purchases.

I openly began to cry and wept and wept in public like I'd never done. And my attorney PLANNED that to be my response to get the most gutteral reaction from both the judge and everybody in that d*mn courtroom. The baliff handed me tissues and tried to even hug me. The judge excused me from the stand, said I could go to the restroom and cry if I needed to, and I walked out to the restroom for a few minutes. A few ladies from the courtroom, TOTAL STRANGERS, came in, following me, offering love, prayers, and hugs until I walked back in.

I walked back in and my xwh was on the stand. He was being grilled by the judge hard. I mean HARD. His attny tried to spin things, but the judge at one time point blank asked him how many women was he having affairs with? Mind you, the main ow, monkeyho WAS IN THE COURT AND GOT DEPOSED TOO. She found out that day SHE WAS NOT THE ONLY OW. When my xwh was trying to explain away (poorly) his actions in vegas, the judge saw a glimpse of his flashy rolex on his wrist.

the judge went insanely angry. HOW DARE YOU SIR, MOCK ME, MOCK YOUR WIFE, THE MOTHER OF YOUR CHILD AND THIS COURT BY WEARING INTO THIS ROOM A ROLEX LIKE THAT WHEN YOUR POOR WIFE HAS HAD TO EAT SPAGHETTI, FEEDING ONLY MEAT AND VEGGIES WHICH SHE CANNOT EVEN AFFORD TO HER CHILD WHILE YOU'RE LIVING LIKE A KING IN LAS VEGAS EATING AT FIVE STAR RESTAURANTS? He then said, "I should make you take that d*amn watch off, and hand it over to your w, but I won't. I'll make it easier for her and give her all she needs from you and all she and that child need to survive. I cannot WAIT to hear of all the fun you've had from your mistress sitting out there too. Which one is she?

The judge at the end of the trial before his final verdict (100 percent in my favor and all my attny costs paid too)he looked at my xwh and said, "If I ever catch you in my court room doing any of these evil kind of things again, I will throw this (a huge book on his desk) right at you." I swear he said that.

After the judgement went down, people actually clapped. My attny said he hadn't seen that happen in years and as we walked out, the strangers in there slapped me on the back, telling me "you take it to him" and "You take care of that child, we're praying for you" and "way to go" like I was a prize fighter who'd just won the world champ belt.

Meanwhile my heart broke that day further, but I knew who and what I was dealing with and I did whatever I had to do for my child b/c it was clear that as long as my xwh was a wayward, there was NO HELPING OR GETTING THRU TO HIM. The only thing that did or ever did was self-preservation, fear of being thrown in jail, legal actions, and further embarassment.

Oh his ow and him slunk out of the courtroom, and my attny's paralegal watched that part and stayed behind. She said women called the ow HORRIBLE names as she walked out. I think "home wrecker" was the mildest and said vile things about my xwh too as they slunk out of the courtroom.

You see Mehr. I LIVED THIS. And sometimes waywards get THIS BAD AND YET MARRIAGES RECOVER. But sometimes waywards get THIS BAD AND MARRIAGES DO NOT. Mine didn't. But I recovered myself and my child and we did pretty darn well.

It was hard for several years, and I worked my butt off, but it paid off. The evil affairs have ended. The tornado for the moment (the p-5) in my life has stopped swirling, and I am peaceful, happy, my son is great, and I'm thrilled to be married to the most wonderful, loving, handsome, and amazing man in the world. No matter what you go through, what matters most is WHAT YOU DO DURING THAT STORM and HOW you weather it.

So do not think that you or others here are the only ones going thru this mess. Many others have too.

But one thing is clear. When and if the wayward gets so bad that there has to be swift, hard, and decisive legal action, you REMAIN IN A DARKEST OF PLAN B AND LET THE LAW DEAL HARSHLY WITH THEM. You will when when the wayward is either stopped, (meaning the ws is no longer wayward) or SUBDUED (if they remain an unrepentant wayard as my xwh is still to this day).

My heart also recovered too, Mehr. I wish I could make all of this go away for you and other women and men here. I wish I could wave a wand and make everything go to the place it was before the affairs began but I can't. But I CAN ARM YOU WITH the truth and with logic and with advice.

It is the only reason I'm here. To help others who need help to make good decisions so they can be good parents and get thru this mess. To help victims of the evil tornados everywhere.

PM, she is already IN Plan B. Or at least she is supposed to be.

You aren't going to get away without at least one twoxfour

Do you live on a desert island where there are no neighbours? Seriously.

There are going to be MANY reasons to break Plan B. You need to find the reasons to stick to it. Next time that you want to break plan B(and there WILL be a next time), I want you to come here and post FIRST. Then wait until you have at least 10 responses to that post before you make the decision to break Plan B.

I KNOW how hard it is to change your life and realize that you don't have your rock anymore. I KNOW. We ALL know.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/16/11 01:08 AM
I know Scotty, I know.... hehe... not that this makes it "okay" but as a way of explanation, my sister in law had been messaging me that very day about how I shouldn't be "ignoring" my husband because it isn't Biblical and this or that other way would work better..... so when my van broke, and I called up my in laws (since they live a few blocks away) and they said they were out of town but they could call WH .... I said ok. I was starting to get confused.... sometimes I have to learn the hard way. I definitely didn't help the situation.

I will say that this being the first time I've gotten a look at him in a month: He's gained some weight.

I realized a couple hours ago that yesterday was 1 month in Plan B.... I didn't notice that yesterday... I think that's progress.

Today I hardly thought of him, when I did pray for him it was almost like he's becoming less real in my life. He's ... away? It just feels different. I even find that I care less... just a little...

I just finished reading Love Must Be Tough by Dr. Dobson. It seems to go right along with Plan B. I did notice him mention exposure and not shielding the wayward from the natural consequences of their behavior, letting reality hit them and emotional pain. I also noticed that he called infidelity an addiction just like Dr. Harley.



Okay, next time someone says that it isn't biblical to ignore your WH, you need to say something like this, "It isn't biblical to commit adultery."

I am also quite sarcastic(as a Canadian, it's what we are good at) and I would probably say something like, "It's against biblical and human law to commit murder, so I decided ignoring would be a better option."

I believe that you should keep your in-laws at arms length. They are not supporting you in your efforts to stick to a solid Plan B, and are instead encouraging you to go along with your WH's interests. It needs to be all business with them. You need to find some other people you can rely on instead. Give it some thought.
Mehr,

Matthew 18, verses 15 - 17: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

That one little section appears to strongly recommend exposure for the purpose of bringing the sinner to repentance. If the sinner will not repent and keeps on doing that sin, he is shunned.

Exposure and Plan B is not done to hurt your spouse but to kill the affair and bring him back. I hate it when people use religion to advocate some sort of a doormat kind of treatment, as though, simply because we are Christians mean we are to allow all kinds of bad behavior because of some kind of "love" or "compassion."

Further, there were instances in the Old Testament (can't quote them right off the bat) where God Himself left His beloved people to fend for themselves because they kept rebelling against Him, committing adultery with other gods.

Not a Bible scholar here, but I wanted to offer to you a way to refute those who would have you become a Christian doormat.
Originally Posted by 51CD30
Mehr,

Matthew 18, verses 15 - 17: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

That one little section appears to strongly recommend exposure for the purpose of bringing the sinner to repentance. If the sinner will not repent and keeps on doing that sin, he is shunned.

Exposure and Plan B is not done to hurt your spouse but to kill the affair and bring him back. I hate it when people use religion to advocate some sort of a doormat kind of treatment, as though, simply because we are Christians mean we are to allow all kinds of bad behavior because of some kind of "love" or "compassion."

Further, there were instances in the Old Testament (can't quote them right off the bat) where God Himself left His beloved people to fend for themselves because they kept rebelling against Him, committing adultery with other gods.

Not a Bible scholar here, but I wanted to offer to you a way to refute those who would have you become a Christian doormat.

May not be a bible scholar, but you did a good job.

You may also want to consider Hosea chapters 2 and three. Hosea is told to take an adulterous wife to himself. She is a textbook wayward. Selfish, lying, self-serving... Hosea tells us that exposure is necessary (I will uncover her nakedness), then he is told to cut off all her avenues for adultery... Then when she hits rock bottom (plan B), (She shall pursue her lovers but not overtake them, and she shall seek them but shall not find them. Then she shall say, 'I will go and return to my first husband, for it was better for me then than now.' )

it is only then that she is brought in with terms and conditions

Hos 3:1-3 And the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman who is loved by another man and is an adulteress, even as the LORD loves the children of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love cakes of raisins." (2) So I bought her for fifteen shekels of silver and a homer and a lethech of barley. (3) And I said to her, "You must dwell as mine for many days. You shall not play the whore, or belong to another man; so will I also be to you."

So there you go.. the basic outline for the MB program...

I think I will work this week on taking the terms, phrases and ideas from MB and lining them up this way with Scripture. A bit of exegetical work for any Christian on the list who is interested... just don't know where I should post it...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/16/11 04:45 PM
Good stuff!!! smile

Sometimes I am still surprised that I am here a single mom of 4.... did not see that coming.

And yes, I STILL want to know what typically happens in affairland in Plan B.... aren't there posts about that? laugh
There are posts.....somewhere in the plethora of them.
One of my favorite statements about the waywards in plan B is from Longhorn's notable posts (from 2005) in the notable posts section of the forums. It states

"In Plan B, you cut off all communication with your wayward spouse. Having shown them how wonderful a person you can be as a marriage partner, you remove yourself from their lives to show them how bad it is out there without you. In Plan A, fence-sitting is almost unavoidable. Your wayward spouse gets some of their emotional needs met by you and others met by the other person. In Plan B, you suddenly, and completely, stop providing those needs you had been filling for your spouse. When they aren’t being met, it increases strife in that fantasy world your spouse and his or her partner in adultery have in common with only each other. Strife begets pressure. Pressure begets unhappiness. Unhappiness begets separation…and you win."



Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/16/11 06:24 PM
Is there a way to change the title of this thread?
Try going back to your very first post and clicking on edit.

If that doesn't work you could ask the mods if they are able to do it. Click notify on that same first post to ask the mods and tell them what you want it renamed to.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/17/11 02:24 AM
Thank you.... yeah the edit on the first post isn't there maybe because of the merging of the two threads....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/17/11 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by reading
There are posts.....somewhere in the plethora of them.
One of my favorite statements about the waywards in plan B is from Longhorn's notable posts (from 2005) in the notable posts section of the forums. It states

"In Plan B, you cut off all communication with your wayward spouse. Having shown them how wonderful a person you can be as a marriage partner, you remove yourself from their lives to show them how bad it is out there without you. In Plan A, fence-sitting is almost unavoidable. Your wayward spouse gets some of their emotional needs met by you and others met by the other person. In Plan B, you suddenly, and completely, stop providing those needs you had been filling for your spouse. When they aren’t being met, it increases strife in that fantasy world your spouse and his or her partner in adultery have in common with only each other. Strife begets pressure. Pressure begets unhappiness. Unhappiness begets separation…and you win."

Thank you.... I think I just need to hear there is some hope.... its in there somewhere....
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by reading
There are posts.....somewhere in the plethora of them.
One of my favorite statements about the waywards in plan B is from Longhorn's notable posts (from 2005) in the notable posts section of the forums. It states

"In Plan B, you cut off all communication with your wayward spouse. Having shown them how wonderful a person you can be as a marriage partner, you remove yourself from their lives to show them how bad it is out there without you. In Plan A, fence-sitting is almost unavoidable. Your wayward spouse gets some of their emotional needs met by you and others met by the other person. In Plan B, you suddenly, and completely, stop providing those needs you had been filling for your spouse. When they aren’t being met, it increases strife in that fantasy world your spouse and his or her partner in adultery have in common with only each other. Strife begets pressure. Pressure begets unhappiness. Unhappiness begets separation…and you win."

Thank you.... I think I just need to hear there is some hope.... its in there somewhere....

I'm with you on this one. As one who has just been in Plan B for about a week, I've always thought that it was more a less the sign of the death of the marriage. I haven't read of too many marriages that have survived Plan B. This gives me a little hope as well. I know there's no guarantees but there's nothing wrong with being somewhat optimistic.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/17/11 02:47 AM
I don't know about that.... it does feel particularly hopeless, but I read on some thread that it nearly always has to go to Plan B before they finally stop and come back to the marriage.
The ones which are successful also INJECT AS MUCH PAIN AND STRESS into the affair from afar as possible.

Thus, plan B in letting the affair partner meet all the EN's is self destructing. You see, when there's suddenly less $ for the affair (if there is a support and custody monetary and visitation sep plan in force), everybody knows what they're doing is wrong (more stress on them and disdain), and the ws is seeing the children far less and is not allowed to have them around the kids, and also when some of their other main EN's aren't getting met b/c the BS is out of the picture...

then we WS comes back.

We have many WS come back home during plan B. heck even my uuber xwh wanted to come home, but it was a totally different situation b/c the ow was pregnant. I actually DIDN'T want him back.

MB is the best plan of attack there is. It is a proactive one. It reserves and saves your sanity, self respect, and creates a path towards marital healing should the affair end. It also fosters personal healing too, if the wayward remains just that.

Will those who have had their spouses back after plan B please come in and give your thoughts? We need some MB encouragement here!
By forcing reality onto the affair (and not breaking plan B) through the means I said above (and you not even seeing them or uttering a word to them) you can break the affair down from afar and put so much stress on it that it will break!

That is why I believe when you go to plan B, you really let them have reality of what it is like when you're divorced. You MAKE them pay either cs or alimony, they aren't welcomed back to your house (as long as the affair is alive), they aren't allowed usual parenting scenarios, and you make sure everybody AND the mailman knows they're cheaters.

As much pressure as you possibly can.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/17/11 03:50 AM
I'm on it.... I am going to be getting child support AND alimony...
Good for you, you're doing the right thing.

Did you ever get any grief over cashing that check? Of course, in Plan B, you wouldn't hear anything either way smile
Originally Posted by marksaysay
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by reading
There are posts.....somewhere in the plethora of them.
One of my favorite statements about the waywards in plan B is from Longhorn's notable posts (from 2005) in the notable posts section of the forums. It states

"In Plan B, you cut off all communication with your wayward spouse. Having shown them how wonderful a person you can be as a marriage partner, you remove yourself from their lives to show them how bad it is out there without you. In Plan A, fence-sitting is almost unavoidable. Your wayward spouse gets some of their emotional needs met by you and others met by the other person. In Plan B, you suddenly, and completely, stop providing those needs you had been filling for your spouse. When they aren’t being met, it increases strife in that fantasy world your spouse and his or her partner in adultery have in common with only each other. Strife begets pressure. Pressure begets unhappiness. Unhappiness begets separation…and you win."

Thank you.... I think I just need to hear there is some hope.... its in there somewhere....

I'm with you on this one. As one who has just been in Plan B for about a week, I've always thought that it was more a less the sign of the death of the marriage. I haven't read of too many marriages that have survived Plan B. This gives me a little hope as well. I know there's no guarantees but there's nothing wrong with being somewhat optimistic.

We are a Plan A/Plan B success story. There are some! Your best bet is to follow the plan to a tee.

IME, those who half-*ss it lessen their chances of recovery considerably.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/17/11 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Good for you, you're doing the right thing.

Did you ever get any grief over cashing that check? Of course, in Plan B, you wouldn't hear anything either way smile

He doesn't know I cashed it that I know of. The last time he had asked me about it through the IM, I sent a message back saying that we should discuss this (through IM) once the legal separation is through. I haven't heard anything since.

** The reason I said that is I didn't want to say "I am taking all the money" until he's agreed to my terms, hopefully. wink
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/17/11 04:37 PM
We had an Emigrant Direct savings account a few years back, i don't think there was much money in it but he must have closed it and taken what was there... there was a 7 dollar deposit into our account from it yesterday (saw on account), which is weird, but I do know that he had cash (when he came to jump my van the day I broke Plan B) and I didn't know how he had gotten it so this may answer the question.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/19/11 01:43 AM
!!!! It came out in the paper that I filed for dissolution of marriage!!!! I filed for legal separation, and I had no idea that anything would be public in the paper!! Is that normal!!! My in laws called me, all a flurry ....
Originally Posted by mehr
!!!! It came out in the paper that I filed for dissolution of marriage!!!! I filed for legal separation, and I had no idea that anything would be public in the paper!! Is that normal!!! My in laws called me, all a flurry ....

So what, your inlaws are surprised you would file for divorce? There isn't much difference between the two anyway....just a matter of semantics.

What did they expect you to do? Just take what their son is dishing out?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/19/11 01:52 AM
Its a small town, I want it to say LEGAL SEPARATION. No "dissolution of marriage".... then people might think he is unmarried and able to bring his skankyho around town!!! Not okay!!!
That is weird.
Can you find out from the paper or attorney what the scoop is........

could both legal separation and divorce be considered dissolution since the assets are being legally divided?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/19/11 02:32 PM
I am not sure, I will call this morning.

In other news, WH's direct deposit has come in at 9am every Thursday morning and today it is 9:30am and it is not there. So I think he finally stopped it. Calling my lawyer...

It is amazing to what depths the wayward will sink, hurting their family. How can a good family man do this, when 1 year ago he would have CONDEMNED the same behavior in someone else? How?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/19/11 02:48 PM
So the lawyer says we can't get an emergency hearing until he has been served!!! This is SO RIDICULOUS

He hasn't been served because we couldn't FIND HIM.... I finally got his address on Friday....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/19/11 03:30 PM
Through intermediary, the answer to, when are you going to drop off money for me to pay the bills? The answer is "use the insurance check its more than I make in 4 weeks" .....


Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/19/11 03:53 PM
I am at a particularly hopeless point in which I don't know why I didn't just file for divorce instead of legal separation. Does this really happen.... do they really sink to a point where they leave you penniless and destitute and then they still return someday? Why am i doing this to myself? Should I even waste any more of my young years when i could just heal and meet someone else who wouldn't do this to me? It is like he is a completely different person, and I hate him right now. It was just barely over a month ago he was having sex with me and saying I love you, and now he's just gone and shows no signs of remorse or ever wanting to come back....
Originally Posted by mehr
I am at a particularly hopeless point in which I don't know why I didn't just file for divorce instead of legal separation. Does this really happen.... do they really sink to a point where they leave you penniless and destitute and then they still return someday? Why am i doing this to myself? Should I even waste any more of my young years when i could just heal and meet someone else who wouldn't do this to me? It is like he is a completely different person, and I hate him right now. It was just barely over a month ago he was having sex with me and saying I love you, and now he's just gone and shows no signs of remorse or ever wanting to come back....

You don't have to make long term decisions today. Today all you have to do is figure out how to take care of your children's (and yours) physical needs. You need the court order that says your WH has to pay you X amount of money. Then you will need to see what other financial aid is available to a mother of 4 young children.

I do not think your attorneys are doing a very good job for you. Have you given them money? If not, and maybe even if you have, think about firing them. You are in dire straights and you need an attorney to step up to the plate for you.
Mehr, just a note to say I think of you often. Sending positive thoughts your way for strength.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/19/11 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
You don't have to make long term decisions today. Today all you have to do is figure out how to take care of your children's (and yours) physical needs. You need the court order that says your WH has to pay you X amount of money. Then you will need to see what other financial aid is available to a mother of 4 young children.

We are going to be okay. He is right, I do have the insurance money. I think they can backdate child support to this date.... I hope. He should get served tomorrow FINALLY. My lawyer said we cant get an emergency cs hearing until he is served. Argh! It should be soon.
Indeed, ride the latest attraction he deals you.
He is trying to justify his continued affair with baiting you to REACT.

You decide what you will do based on logic
not emotions

Emotions are fleeting things that don't make good choices.

You file legal sep and later D if you decide to at that time.

You get legal help supporting you and the kids and if it doesn't happen this second due to the serving of stuff....it WILL happen in good time.

Be still.

Phew (the rollercoaster ride can be so very exciting and breathtaking sometimes.....eh?)
Oh LET him do that (and you can go to the court if you will and wait for the assistant/paralegal to the judge and try what I did on my own or let your attorney get that Emergency hearing)! LET THE CRAZY WS do that!

NOT paying you cs or ss when he abandons the family and is having an adulterous affair and caused severe emotional abuse to his wife and kids WILL MAKE HIM HAVE TO PAY because the judge doesn't like that.

Expect all kinds of monkey business from him! Stupid and evil, vile things. A very very wayward wayward spouse will do them. My xwh tried that until the court slapped his hand to the tune of over 10k. And the idiot tried it a SECOND time too (the not paying part) to try to get me to sign HIS version of our divorce settlement agreement. Again, the judge yelled at him this last time, and told him he never wanted to see him in his court again, and if he did, he'd throw his book (law book on his desk. A really really big one he pointed to) AT HIM literally.

I think it's time with a bit of $, to get a private eye to do some legwork on the ow esp since we have an address as to where their stinky, rutting lair is now. I say she MAY very well have some skeletons in her closet which NEED TO BE EXPOSED and she NEEDS TO KNOW SHE'S GETTING DEPOSED. Wow, that ended up being kinda poetic, like the poetic justice you will be given soon.

Let your lawyer toughen up or fire them. YOU run this show, and your lawyer WORKS FOR YOU MEHR. Not the other way around at all.

YOU tell them what you want done and they legally try to do it. I would have HIM SERVED and the POSOW SERVED as soon as the clearance and date are set for the emergency hearing.

Now as for your enabling the ws inlaws...what I'd tell them is the "play dumb act". I'd play dumb about the divorce. Say "I didn't have any idea. My attorney is HANDLING EVERYTHING since we're placed in such a difficult situation right now because YOUR SON AND OW (insert her real name) are starving me and my children. It's not what I want, but my attorney has to stand up for me SINCE FEW ARE.

Remember when dealing with the IL's Mehr..blood IS ALWAYS thicker than water. So deal with them sparingly and don't allow them to be the IM or drop off point anymore. As far as you're concerned right now FROM THIS SECOND FORWARD YOU BEHAVE AS IF YOU HAVE SOLE CUSTODY. NO MORE VISITATION TO THEM OR TO IL'S.
One beautiful part of plan B Mehr is this. If and when a legal sep is entered, having a MEAN, BULLDOG MEAN ATTORNEY can help bust up the affair faster. Make it totally not fun and downright messy and scary for them.

Make it so scary for the ow. Get every bit of indecent information you can on the ow, and have it paraded into court. Hell, I did. And it worked wink

My xwh was having two affairs with one main ow (the awful monkeyho). It busted up the affair with monkeyho big time.

NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE TROUBLE FOR THE AFFAIR! Make it horrendous to be them. B/c the more trouble the affair is, the quicker reality hits them and they begin to turn on each other, arguing back and forth and in the end, one or both will drop it b/c it's just not worth losing the family, money, and reputation over it.

Not romantic at first, but killing the affair CAN be done in a distant and dark plan B WHEN SO MUCH PRESSURE AND PAIN is put onto the affairees (which they rightly deserve btw) to end it. Use every way legally to do so.

It's doomed anyway. Affairages rarely last.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/20/11 02:53 AM
Make trouble for the affair.... ok... let me think on that.

Why couldn't he be found, I thought he was staying with his parents?

Personally, I think it's time for a call to your in-laws (this is a slight breach in Plan B, I KNOW THAT).

Ask them to help put pressure on him to do the right thing and not strap you financially. Explain to them that the REASON you cashed the insurance check is because your H had already SPENT THE MONEY on his affair. Tell them there was nothing left to feed their grandkids and pay the bills and mortgage because he keeps SPENDING ALL OF THE MONEY.

Tell them you are at a complete loss as to what to do and you fear he is going to continue to leave you penniless. Ask them to use their influence to get him to quit screwing you financially.

Wayturds like this infuriate me.
Hi Peachy and Mehr,

Sorry - not to t/j here, but I am also in Plan B. I am going to use your post Mehr because I think it may have some information helpful for you.

Peachy - I just sent another letter to all my WH's facebook friends he is deployed with because he is returning in July. Just to remind them I am still fighting for my marriage. I love my WH, and he has abandoned us for OW. Do you recommend something like this?

Mehr - you may also want to get out the word you WH has skipped town, you are looking for financial security, and could use all the help from friends and family to hunt down the TURD!!

I know my case is different because my POSWH used his deployment to abandon his family. I used the military legal system to try and bust up his affair. He is still super pissed. I am sure with this new round of facebook emails he is going to hit the fan again.

I just wanted OW to know I still haven't given up on my marriage. My four babies want daddy to come home and I spent most of the letter soliciting prayers and using God to reach my WH.

Any thoughts?

Thanks Tough~

Sorry to t/j Mehr!!!
Posted By: atena Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/20/11 12:25 PM
itistough,
I really feel for you. 4 kids, small ones. I know your WH is in the fog, deep thick one. I just hope he gets out of it before it is too late.
Sometimes the A is an escape from it all. He feels completely free and young again and without commitment. It must feel very good for a while.
But then at some point he will hit the ground.
WHEN is the issue. In some cases it only takes a few months, in others it might take years or they really never return.
Dr. H said not too long ago in one of his radio shows that if the feeling of love was not there for a long while the WH would have a hard time even imagining to have it again for the BS.

Sometimes when a guy get the taste of freedom he continues on that track even when the A ends.
but in your case it is very hard to tell because it is still to early.
I will send prayers your way!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/20/11 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Why couldn't he be found, I thought he was staying with his parents?

Nope he's living with Her.... the only time his parents see him are when I drop off the kids at their house for him to see.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/20/11 08:34 PM
.... which I am not doing anymore. Now he is informed he needs to pick them up at my house. Haven't heard a response to that yet but the message was sent via IM.
Why is that? Why is he picking them up at your house? Why Mehr?

I would guess, that the inlaws (the ones ENABLING his affair PRETENDING they didn't know where their own son lived) aren't going to be involved right now?

It is ok. All is FINE. You want the ws to be off kilter now. I'd go a step further and say he IS NOT HAVING THE KIDS b/c he's abandoned his family and you do not know where he lives. One thing's for sure, the environment he is in might be horrible.

Seriously, find out about the ow. Have some intel done on her. She may very well BE a person with a shady past if nobody wants to disclose their "secret, hiding, rutting place" ok?

What WAS your wh's plan? To live with the ow and have his parents cover for him, lying saying they didn't know where he was all the while he would come and see his kids a few hours a week at their house? That and not pay for his kids and basically pretend to disappear off the face of the earth?

That's the angle my lawyer would play up. Why? Because I paid them to. You employ the lawyer. Now you remember this!

You're doing very well. The plan of the WS, posow, and his parents are falling apart. You called his bluff. Who is this ow anyway? Who is she?

Now to IITL: (tough love)

I think you need to continue with the main thread from your situation b/c people will get a teeny confused if you ask questions and they get compounded into somebody else's situation. However,...GOOD for exposing again! My belief is that the affair, no matter what plan you're in, needs to have as much negative pressure placed on the affair as you can have.

Mehr and IITL: There is a special place built for wayward daddies who do not help their kids, disappear, and think they can do nothing. IT IS CALLED JAIL and they need to fear that place! Your ow needs to FEAR YOU TOO because she needs to be (exposed if you already haven't to high heaven)exposed and PLCED ON THE STAND in the court, spilling all her dirty, skankyho secrets and that's something she'd hate too.

Listen, please do not go easy on their posow ok? Why? THE OW DOES NOT LOVE YOUR KIDS. YOu need to bust this up asap. She sure doesn't and her encouraging your husband to sleep with her and abandon the kids and YOU is proof enough. The ow NEVER wants the kids really, but will pretend to be nice around your wh just to get what she wants. That's what the posow wistress who married my xwh did. She "pretended" after all was done, that she really did want to be a stepmom. Never did and when she and my xwh's affairage crumbled, she also disappeared from my sons' life. Poof! The wicked witch was gone.

Moral to my story is HAVE NO MERCY on either of them. Remember the MB mantra: A Marriage can survive Exposure, it CANNOT survive a prolonged affair! So even from a distance, it can be busted up.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/21/11 01:41 AM
I don't know if anyone is reading this thread.... but I need some advice..... what a bad day..... I took my name off one of our bank accounts, it only had 300 dollars in it, but I forgot a bill floating in the mail... the power bill. It came in today, signed by me, and the bank called him to ask him if he wants to pay it .... he said no. That is so vicscious. He is also sitting over there with a full paycheck.

Why AM I doing visitation? This is ridiculous. Are you sure it doesn't make me look bad to just say FORGET IT? If you aren't paying me CS until the court says so, I am not giving you visitation without a court order either.

Its hard to say that since I am so tired frown

But this does get ridiculous....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/21/11 01:42 AM
I feel powerless.... very powerless.... I have no idea what I can even do to the other woman.... and yes my attorney seems more and more unhelpful.... but its too late, legal separation has been filed.

Today I wish it was a divorce because I just hate him.
Originally Posted by mehr
I feel powerless.... very powerless.... I have no idea what I can even do to the other woman.... and yes my attorney seems more and more unhelpful.... but its too late, legal separation has been filed.

Today I wish it was a divorce because I just hate him.

Mehr,

I follow your thread. I check it every day. I wish I had some wise words for you right now. My thoughts and prayers are with you though. I understand powerless. It is frustrating.

CV
Posted By: AndyM Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/21/11 02:08 AM
Mehr - Please try to document all of this stuff when it happens. This shows you how deep the fog is with your WH. I would pull all visitation until you get some CS. Your lawyer seems incompetent, if he can't get you some cash to pay bills.
Mehr, I read your posts daily. I haven't much to offer you because, even though I've been on this road longer I'm in the same place you are. I did finally get CS, but WH is balking about paying money for spousal support. All Waywards are big jerks.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/21/11 02:35 AM
He is obviously being petty and vindictive... to send back the power bill..... I have NEVER known him to be that way.... EVER..... I am so confused frown
{{{{mehr}}}}}

Have you thought about calling another lawyer? Does your WH's family know what he is doing? Can they come down on him? I wish I had more advice for you... Waywards ~ args!
Let his folks know for sure.

And keep a journal to document if you are not already doing so.

I would allow visitation if that is going okay. I don't think financial child support and visitation go hand in hand in particular.

Document that you and the kids are not being financially supported and take the high road. The firm "I am getting legal separation but I am beyond this drama road"

Ugh to your WH.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/21/11 01:01 PM
The only thing I can come up with why he would send the power bill back is that he is baiting me for a response. I think he wants me to be cold and angry, so he can see that, instead of remember that up until the minute he left on 4/14 I was nothing but kind and understanding. That's the only reason i can think of.

I remember back in March we were talking about the money and he said, "I would never take the money because that would hurt the kids." Of course he was already hurting the kids. But now he is even returning their power bill unpaid. He is stooping to lower and lower levels.

I won't take the bait.... but its really hard not to say anything about this.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/21/11 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by HopeandGrace
Mehr, I read your posts daily. I haven't much to offer you because, even though I've been on this road longer I'm in the same place you are. I did finally get CS, but WH is balking about paying money for spousal support. All Waywards are big jerks.

I can see him being this way, I hope there is some way for the courts to help me.

Thank you guys for listening.
I know how hard it is not to 'take the bait' and it gets easier as you get alternative ways to work stuff out which is kind of 'cool'. You problem solve on your own while letting legal sources do all the financial stuff to him. Once the legal ball is truly rolling, you will be able to sit back and watch with a bit less anxiety about your bills.

Stepping back from the drama is so very much the best way to go.

Anything that comes at you can be deflected this way.

It protects you.

I would call his parents and ask them to cover the power bill so your children can have light and keep the food in the fridge from going bad. Tell them that he's playing money games and if they're okay with their grandchildren going without food and shelter, you know who they are.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/21/11 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by reading
I know how hard it is not to 'take the bait' and it gets easier as you get alternative ways to work stuff out which is kind of 'cool'. You problem solve on your own while letting legal sources do all the financial stuff to him. Once the legal ball is truly rolling, you will be able to sit back and watch with a bit less anxiety about your bills.

Stepping back from the drama is so very much the best way to go.

Anything that comes at you can be deflected this way.

It protects you.

Right... hopefully now that he's been served (Friday) I can get an emergency hearing for support...
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
I would call his parents and ask them to cover the power bill so your children can have light and keep the food in the fridge from going bad. Tell them that he's playing money games and if they're okay with their grandchildren going without food and shelter, you know who they are.

I second this if you cannot get immediate help via the courts.
I don't understand why Mehr can't get an emergency hearing. ?? Didn't Peachy and Barbiecat weigh in and say it can and should be fairly easy to accomplish?

((Mehr)) I don't reply to you, but I read every word. I am terribly frustrated for you, to say the least.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/22/11 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by Surfer88
I don't understand why Mehr can't get an emergency hearing. ?? Didn't Peachy and Barbiecat weigh in and say it can and should be fairly easy to accomplish?

((Mehr)) I don't reply to you, but I read every word. I am terribly frustrated for you, to say the least.

My lawyer told me that I could not get an emergency hearing until he got served which FINALLY happened on Friday afternoon. So I am calling him again Monday.

So get this.... today he sent me a mean message DIRECTLY.... it said "Need my shorts. Im not paying for ur netflix and dish so u better change that"

The idiot doesn't know I already cancelled netflix, and that I tried to transfer dish into my name and they said they would have to talk to him so I am not worried about it for now. Its coming from an account with my name not on it. He can call and change it.

Since I know you are going to say, block him, and right now I'd really like to.... I have so many small children and I worry they will get hurt and he might need to get ahold of me quickly.... smirk

He has only sent a couple messages since going Plan B....

Today the kids came home from visitation all excited about their new toys that daddy bought them .... that they had to leave at grandma's house.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/22/11 01:15 AM
How DO I block a number? Because I think its time. I don't need gems like that. I do worry about the kids getting hurt though.
If you can't figure out how to block his number, you should just change yours.

This is not good for you. This will really send you in a tailspin.
I thought about something else too. Does he leave messages on an answering machine? If so, unplug it. I had to do that at the beginning of Plan B for a while.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/22/11 01:40 AM
Nope he never calls. I think he hates me.
Emails then? How is he contacting you then?
If your kids are hurt, he can take them to a doctors office or emergency room or call an ambulance.
Even if you were a physician yourself......WH telling IM about the emergency would allow as much time for you to collect yourself to get to and attend your child.

He is mean and mad cause of the check you cashed. Tantrum about you not giving it over to him for the car. Plain and simple. Tantrum that he isn't your boss anymore/head of the house.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/22/11 02:05 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Emails then? How is he contacting you then?

Text messages only... and like 3 total since he left 4/14....

I am SO SAD. I do not recognize this guy at all. He buys toys for the kids and then won't let them bring them home... its like a bad movie...

frown frown frown frown
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/22/11 02:09 AM
Well.... I can't block the number without getting my own account, because I don't have access to the account.... I better leave it alone for now for Money reasons. I will act like I didn't get the text and not respond though. I guess that's it for now.
Mehr, I follow your thread daily. I feel your pain and frustration. My WH says he will quit his job to avoid paying child support. You and your children are in my prayers.

Torn
I believe that you can make a folder for a number and then the texts automatically go in there. Then, you would just not read them.

If he buys them toys, they should stay where he is.

Do you pack the children toys and clothes when they are going to be with WH? He should have his own things where he is. He needs to take care of them himself. That is part of being away from you. If you are doing this, it would be meeting an EN.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/22/11 04:30 AM
His PARENTS are helping him take care of the kids. He still isn't watching all 4 himself. My kids told me how daddy and grandma and grandpa took them to the toy store today.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/22/11 11:55 PM
He sent me two text messages today, one to say "there was a tornado in northern Minneapolis" (where we used to live) -- not sure if he meant to do that or what?

And then a second message to say that our son has some toys he wants to bring home and he is okay with that as long as they come back next time. !!! ???

I am going to have the IM remind him to send messages through them. I am SO down today.... its so boring to be single.... no one to keep you company or something....
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 12:11 AM
Like that tornado message is exactly the kind of text he would send me Before .... little chit chats .... frown
so sorry you are dealing with this, what part of IM doesn't he understand. it's just jerky. ((((mehr))))
mehr, don't read his texts. Just delete them! I know it's hard but this is going to keep you stuck...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 01:07 AM
And THEN.... when he and his parents drop off the kids, he COMES TO THE FRONT DOOR and starts telling me about how our 1.5yo fell down and hit his head.... really?? I don't tell him about falls like that, its completely unnecessary. I stood behind the door while he talked and didn't say a word. Then he went away. I had the IM send him a msg saying to please not come to the front door.

Hello you are breaking my heart every day, don't come and try to chit chat with me!!!! frown
Don't let him get his fix...

How can you prevent this from happening in the future, mehr?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 01:15 AM
Wait, hold the phone... he's actually attempting to break Plan B.... maybe he cares after all... or maybe he is still trying to live out his fantasy where we are all friends.... hard to say.
Mehr, you are focusing on the wrong thing. your WH isn't unusual. He is the same old typical wayward. And that being said, you need to know that this is the best place for you. Follow the MB plans. Stop focusing on his contacting you. Or if he doesn't contact you. What you need to do is get YOU to stop finding out about it.

You need to plug up this hole. You keep feeding the A and setting yourself up for a fall.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 02:22 AM
How am I feeding the affair?..... how do I plug holes.... my IM sent message reminding him not to message me or come to the front door...
You feed the affair by allowing him to continue to get ENs met by you which in turn, allows him to continue cake eating. There have been cases of cake-eating WS's for DECADES.

Before I found MB, and before I KNEW about the A, I allowed that to happen. I may never recover my marriage because of it. I did too much damage.

How you plug up holes is by not allowing him to break through,

BTW, next time he sends you a text, IGNORE IT.

No reminder message through the IMs.

You didn't get a message.

Get it?

Also, you need to re-focus off of your WH and onto you.

I know from where I speak. I am having a rotten day today, and I know that it is from the minimal contact that I had. Some close encounters of the wayward kind, as I call it. Now, I am in a spin that has me reeling. I know what it feels like to be out of the drama and out of the tailspins, but I also know what it felt like before.

i remember what it was like to have that connection, but I was worth more.

you are worth more.

Walk the Plan B walk. Do it better than I ever could.

Plug up the holes.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 02:42 AM
I didn't talk to him and I stood behind the door so I don't see how I can be meeting his emotional needs.... I have to take care of the kids so i guess in some distant way I meet the domestic support one, but I can't stop doing that.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Mehr, you are focusing on the wrong thing. your WH isn't unusual. He is the same old typical wayward. And that being said, you need to know that this is the best place for you. Follow the MB plans. Stop focusing on his contacting you. Or if he doesn't contact you. What you need to do is get YOU to stop finding out about it.

You need to plug up this hole. You keep feeding the A and setting yourself up for a fall.
yup.
Posted By: Kirby Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by mehr
I didn't talk to him and I stood behind the door so I don't see how I can be meeting his emotional needs.... I have to take care of the kids so i guess in some distant way I meet the domestic support one, but I can't stop doing that.

mehr, I'm not one of the experts and so take what I say with a grain of salt. But, part of what Plan B accomplishes is healing for the BS. When you stand behind the door, but you know that he's there, it's damaging for YOU.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 02:05 PM
I didn't have any other option.... I was trying to get the kids into the house....

It appears he is getting a lawyer and mentioned to my lawyer all the money that I "blew" through.... the money that I moved for our property tax bill which is quite large and should be here this month.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 02:15 PM
I just got this text message

"U want to talk to me u can text me directly if i continue getting lectures from [IM] i will block her number"


What do I do now!!!!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 02:21 PM
I'm going to pretend I didn't get it.

I have reason to believe my in laws are paying for his lawyer.
Get rid of the cell.
Get a prepaid for now.....$100 for 1000 minutes.

Then, you will stop getting his texts that you can't block.

He is trying to control you and goad you and is tantrumming and you can stick to your plan if you

have your own attorney
keep using IM (sure, he can block them and have NO venue of communication...let him)


You document all the chances you are giving him to
see the kids
communicate civilly through an intermediary


You hold the reigns. He is trying like heck to grapple them back from you. Boo hoo hoo to him.

You can be peeved by his actions. You can be puzzled and appallled AND you can still love him but not enable his affair and craziness to suck you into the vortex of toxicity.

It is exhausting until he gets it. Until he realizes it is not his game anymore.
rcoaster
I would just not even mention the text to IM.

I would continue as I had planned using IM or nothing....and as mentioned if you can not block him cause he is on that cell account.....use a prepaid phone if you need one.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 02:48 PM
This just gets worse and worse....
Originally Posted by mehr
This just gets worse and worse....
{{{mehr}}} Hang in there, sweetie!
Posted By: Kirby Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by mehr
I'm going to pretend I didn't get it.

Yes. Pretend you didn't get it.

Also, if the IM is lecturing him, then you might need a new IM.
Originally Posted by mehr
This just gets worse and worse....


Cause he is upping the anti to get you to 'behave' and acquiesce. The self preservation things you have done with $ are scaring him and he is reacting with anger (anger=fear) and trying to blameshift the whole mess he made onto

little old you

You need to not take any bait to react but continue to follow your plan and respond to situations with making choices based on your and your children's financial security.

No lashes back at him----------- that would feed him more to get even nastier.

It sucks. No two ways about it.

If you stick to your guns now and act like a responsible, clear thinking, nonconversating in person self....he WILL get with the program. He WILL eventually stop attacking you with his words and finances and nastiness.

Stay your course. Add no fuel. Clearly plan.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by reading
Originally Posted by mehr
This just gets worse and worse....


Cause he is upping the anti to get you to 'behave' and acquiesce. The self preservation things you have done with $ are scaring him and he is reacting with anger (anger=fear) and trying to blameshift the whole mess he made onto

little old you

You need to not take any bait to react but continue to follow your plan and respond to situations with making choices based on your and your children's financial security.

No lashes back at him----------- that would feed him more to get even nastier.

It sucks. No two ways about it.

If you stick to your guns now and act like a responsible, clear thinking, nonconversating in person self....he WILL get with the program. He WILL eventually stop attacking you with his words and finances and nastiness.

Stay your course. Add no fuel. Clearly plan.

I am trying... its like he is just starting to grasp what this is going to mean for him financially.... what his life is going to look like....
Your IM shouldn't be lecturing him. Does she have the training guide? Less is better than more. Remain neutral & filter passed messages. That is her job!
I would not be surprised if the 'lectures' were basic, simple facts.
Maybe IM is lecturing and maybe IM is sending info and WH just is rebelling getting it from other than directly mehr.
What do you think mehr? Ask IM if they are sending basic unemotional facts back and forth or more complex messages. You don't have to tell IM about the text but can inquire if they are communicating basic facts only to check in on how they are doing at the procedure. Gotta love any IM. IMs are heaven sent.

A good one is worth their weight and more in gold.
Every time you see his TMs it is setting you back. Every time.

Are you going to plug up that hole or are you going to keep looking at his messages?
Have your IM re-send your Plan B letter, highlighting the part where you state it is just far too painful to be in contact with him since it is your desire to save the M as well as the part where you stated that you are not using the IM as a punishment but as a way to save you from the pain of communicating with him.

If the IM doesn't have a copy of your Plan B letter then just ask IM to reiterate these points above.

He's foggy and as usual, is in "me me me" mode ~ completely ignoring the fact that you are in immense pain over his continued A and betrayal.
P.S. he tried conversing with you about your 1.5 year old to try and ease some of his guilt. He MAY also be testing the waters to get some ENs met. Your best bet is to do what I suggested above so that he is fully aware that they ONLY reason you are not communicating with him is because it hurts you terribly.

Post what you are doing to ask the IM to send before you send it. In this case, I think it's ok for the IM to pass along your exact words.
Originally Posted by reading
I would not be surprised if the 'lectures' were basic, simple facts.
Maybe IM is lecturing and maybe IM is sending info and WH just is rebelling getting it from other than directly mehr.
yup.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
P.S. he tried conversing with you about your 1.5 year old to try and ease some of his guilt. He MAY also be testing the waters to get some ENs met. Your best bet is to do what I suggested above so that he is fully aware that they ONLY reason you are not communicating with him is because it hurts you terribly.

Post what you are doing to ask the IM to send before you send it. In this case, I think it's ok for the IM to pass along your exact words.

Interesting. Doesn't him thinking of me over here in pain meet some kind of emotional need?
He really isn't aware of your pain. If he was, he would not be doing what he is doing.
It is all about his own feelings.
Your pain to him is so vague and he is not allowing himself to feel true empathy for you as the woman who you truly are.
You know that.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
P.S. he tried conversing with you about your 1.5 year old to try and ease some of his guilt. He MAY also be testing the waters to get some ENs met. Your best bet is to do what I suggested above so that he is fully aware that they ONLY reason you are not communicating with him is because it hurts you terribly.

Post what you are doing to ask the IM to send before you send it. In this case, I think it's ok for the IM to pass along your exact words.

Interesting. Doesn't him thinking of me over here in pain meet some kind of emotional need?

No, there is no EN for acknowledging your spouse's pain, LOL.

He has shoved your pain to the back of his mind. He doesn't like thinking about it. It causes tremendous guilt, so what does he do? He acts pissy towards you and hopes you will act pissy right back so that he can cover up the thoughts of your pain with a "see, I told you she was a b*tch".

This is why NC is best. He can't get to you and you can't fall into his trap of acting the way he wants you to act.
Exactly! What MF said smile
There is (and I agree) NO en that is met by acknowledging that you're in pain at all. In fact I don't think he is even at all FEELING or UNDERSTANDING your pain b/c a ws is in a totally different mindset and thought process because he's an addict.

Imho, when the ws actually goes so far and I mean SO SO FAR by abandoning their spouse and children and goes to actually live (aka shack up in the rutting lair) with the op/om, there is some SERIOUS SPIN that has to internally happen and a mental flip, if you will, for the ws to even buy their own b*llsh*t. You'd have to be higher than a kite to believe that it's ok to do that.

Thus, he will use ANY AND ANY REASON WHATSOEVER to paint Mehr in a bad light and will stop at nothing to get his own SELFISH SELFISH EN'S met by whatever means necessary. Imho, the FEELING OF admiration and the other other needs the op gives to the ws, is what perpetuates the addiction. While that happens, it also is important to know that the skanky op CANNOT MEET THE NEEDS regarding home, family, comfort, etc. And deep deep down somewhere, the ws longs for life BEFORE THEIR MORAL FALL, before the abandoned their home.

Even my xwh did this. He even felt that and he's one of the worst ws' I've ever heard of. Just unfortunately was my xwh. The Bible calls it and says "lies began lies". They've dug a little hole by starting the affair. Then to validate and make it ok to sleep around with the skanky op, they dig deeper, a larger hole. Eventually if the ws gets foggy enough and becomes super addicted to the main en's getting met, he'll dig a hole deep enough to get to china if he's/she's not stopped.

So one bad deed and lie will lead to a bigger bad deed and bigger lie. And so on. People wonder, how CAN they do these things to their families? Well its' easy when you have to justify your bad actions and choices and refuse at all to carry any blame or responsibility, and run around with an out of control "taker" in full control.

My friend here, a few years back, likened it to a drunk driver behind the wheel of a vehicle. Swerving left and right, speeding out of control, hitting and running over anything and anyone in their path, and that drunk driver WON'T stop sometimes until they hit a concrete wall. When a wayward gets THIS BAD, you have to either bring that wall TO THEM or divert them into it. They have to hit rock bottom themselves.

Sadly Mehr, go dark and quiet and forget about any innuendo or "hidden messages" from your wh. You will go totally fricken insane if you listen to every little teeny miniscule sound byte from him that might sound anything close to normal or close to what he used to say or say to you or feel about you. He's an alien hon. He's outta control. His drunken and high taker is at the wheel, and he's like that driver. YOU bring the wall to him, by making trouble in the affair. Make it hard. Make it difficult. Make being with the skank PAINFUL AND EXPENSIVE.

That's what I'd do. Bring the concrete wall TO him. And stay dark. You doing that is actually doing him a favor. We know that any affair doesn't usually last and their "run" or shelf life is rather short. Even affairages do not last. Seriously...you get two VERY DUMB takers out of control and a so called relationship built on lies and mistrust and gaslighting others and public and family disdain? Recipe for an affairage straight outta He-ll.

Stand tough. Get that emergency hearing. NO MERCY. BRING THE WALL TO HIM.
No you cannot withhold visitation because they withhold child support. They are considered separate issues in the court of law. To withhold visitation will look bad for you as it makes it look as if you are using the children as a pawn to get money. By the same token, for him to not pay the power bill when his children are living there will look very bad for him. So will his not paying child support as ordered. In Oregon they can imprison you and take away your driver's license for not paying support.
Actually, when my kids' dad and I divorced I was told I was required to notify him of anything medical or academic (all doctor's appts even though he wasn't taking them and they were teenagers, and I had to provide copies of report cards, etc.) I scanned/emailed them.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
P.S. he tried conversing with you about your 1.5 year old to try and ease some of his guilt. He MAY also be testing the waters to get some ENs met. Your best bet is to do what I suggested above so that he is fully aware that they ONLY reason you are not communicating with him is because it hurts you terribly.

Post what you are doing to ask the IM to send before you send it. In this case, I think it's ok for the IM to pass along your exact words.

Interesting. Doesn't him thinking of me over here in pain meet some kind of emotional need?

No, there is no EN for acknowledging your spouse's pain, LOL.

He has shoved your pain to the back of his mind. He doesn't like thinking about it. It causes tremendous guilt, so what does he do? He acts pissy towards you and hopes you will act pissy right back so that he can cover up the thoughts of your pain with a "see, I told you she was a b*tch".

This is why NC is best. He can't get to you and you can't fall into his trap of acting the way he wants you to act.

Ok I had the IM send that message. I was meaning it seems like... he gets to sit over there knowing that I hurt over him... I hate him being over there thinking he can have a jolly old time and come back when he's ready.... I guess there is no preventing that.
Just to note..In my state, i have full custody of my son. It is up to ME whatever kind of contact, IF he has contact with his dad, and if and only if and when under supervised visitation with my consent.

Getting sole custody is key. This is why I advocate ALWAYS getting a PI to investigate the wayward down to the nitty gritty and also the affair partner.

sometimes...some very unusual skeletons emerge from their skanky closet!

As for darkness and plan B, Mehr, when you quit allowing him entry into your world, or your mind, and you go dark, and you simply live your life wonderfully, believing each day is a blessing, HE WILL SOMEHOW get wind of that and that is imho, revenge. Simply living well.

When he finds out he has hurt you or he thinks you will wait longer, that's just giving the affair MORE energy. More time. Any contact between you two is like this. You see, when you fight against him, it gives HE AND THE SKANKYHO A REASON TO FORGE A BOND, in this case they are banded together against you. You MUST STAY DARK so that the bond can be broken in the skanky affair. You must make the affair so darn miserable, broke, and unhappy that they begin to turn on one another like people crash landed on a desert island with nothing to eat...cannibals!

Make them want to tear each other apart. You can do that and a good lawyer can certainly do that. Mine did smile

It is important to not leave any stone unturned. You're fighting for your family. Here's what my latest lawyer told me. He said, "well it's like this. You either get custody of your son, 100 percent, or you're dealing with this maniac for another decade or so or the rest of your life. He's always going to try to rain on your parade somehow, stick it to him NOW and then he will learn his place."

Also, if your ws decided the affair was not for him, and he becomes a de-fogged un-wayward one day, he will come crawling back on his hands and knees terribly embarassed of all of his evil and vile stunts. Respecting YOU and your stance, and you being beautiful and strong, the opposite of the wench, will help be like a distant beacon which might light the way home. Time will only tell if he goes further down the wayward path or if he comes home. YOu needn't worry about which path it is.

What counts is YOU get sole custody and good support for the kids and for you, and then let the wayward hubby sort his soul out in time. In the meanwhile, you are the mom of your kids, happy, and not scared always about $ as much. In plan B, the thoughts of the ws is not what counts right now. Your kids need their stable mom, food on the table, a roof over their heads, and clothes on their backs.

Your IL's are totally enabling your ws and I hope you get that now. In fact, they could be subpoenae'd too. Won't it look great to the court that they would not give their dil their wayward sons' address so she could get him served because he was not paying any cs or ss at all and starving them? They are accomplices to his crimes imho. I'd also wonder if the kids are around the ow at their home too. Makes me think they require a visit (secret) from a PI to find out.

I think there are alot of things going on Mehr. Cry at night when nobody is there, or vent here. But you be strong during the day, because your work is for getting the kids and a good settlement and making sure the affair has so much trouble coming its' way that they simply don't want to be IN it anymore. Reality and the stick of it, has a fun way of destroying affairs once the nitty gritty aspects are revealed.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
You'd have to be higher than a kite to believe that it's ok to do that.

Thus, he will use ANY AND ANY REASON WHATSOEVER to paint Mehr in a bad light and will stop at nothing to get his own SELFISH SELFISH EN'S met by whatever means necessary. Imho, the FEELING OF admiration and the other other needs the op gives to the ws, is what perpetuates the addiction. While that happens, it also is important to know that the skanky op CANNOT MEET THE NEEDS regarding home, family, comfort, etc. And deep deep down somewhere, the ws longs for life BEFORE THEIR MORAL FALL, before the abandoned their home.

I believe that. I really hope she is love busting. I pray for all kinds of conflict to enter their relationship and issues they have to deal with that bring out their bad sides.


Quote
My friend here, a few years back, likened it to a drunk driver behind the wheel of a vehicle. Swerving left and right, speeding out of control, hitting and running over anything and anyone in their path, and that drunk driver WON'T stop sometimes until they hit a concrete wall. When a wayward gets THIS BAD, you have to either bring that wall TO THEM or divert them into it. They have to hit rock bottom themselves.

I am praying for that wall of brokenness too. I think he's just starting to realize how much this is going to cost him. But of course I have no idea what else is happening. I will stay dark and quiet and just keep praying for the best preparing for the worst.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/23/11 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Just to note..In my state, i have full custody of my son. It is up to ME whatever kind of contact, IF he has contact with his dad, and if and only if and when under supervised visitation with my consent.

Getting sole custody is key. This is why I advocate ALWAYS getting a PI to investigate the wayward down to the nitty gritty and also the affair partner.

It doesn't work that way here at all. He will get visitation, even if he is a drug addict or low down criminal. (which he isn't) They believe here that fathers are Just That Important. I even have to take a parenting class to get the legal separation. Its probably going to be filled with garbage about working together with the other parent....

Quote
When he finds out he has hurt you or he thinks you will wait longer, that's just giving the affair MORE energy. More time.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of.


Quote
Also, if your ws decided the affair was not for him, and he becomes a de-fogged un-wayward one day, he will come crawling back on his hands and knees terribly embarassed of all of his evil and vile stunts. Respecting YOU and your stance, and you being beautiful and strong, the opposite of the wench, will help be like a distant beacon which might light the way home. Time will only tell if he goes further down the wayward path or if he comes home. YOu needn't worry about which path it is. /

He's going to have to come crawling at this point. The standards have gone wayyyy up.

One thing I still haven't heard from you Mehr..is about the skeletons in the closet issue.

You see, the value of getting a PI right now and having them dig up some nasty bits of information on the OW and your WH (sure there are lots) are invaluable. YOu see, sometimes you can settle things like any separation agreement OUT of court. You can do this.

having some JUICY EVIDENCE which you intend and your lawyer intend to place before the court and God and the whole world, as part of a legal document anybody can access, is HARD NEGOTIATION POWER.

I think you should borrow some $ from your parents or friends and somehow get a PI. You'd be amazed what you would find out. I found out my xwh's new affairage wifey had a one time drug problem. It put heat on the affairage, and it also stopped her being ever alone with my child (even after their marriage) and it also pushed more custody my way (before I got sole). I also dug up more financial dirt on my x and how he was lying in his financial disclosure. We had a bit of negotiation power in the end. It was still not what he was worth (the settlement) but what he admitted to was ok. And he barely got my son that much after that. Plus, knowing his "perfect, soulmate affairage wifey" used to have a drug problem? Oh he did NOT KNOW ABOUT THAT!

You see, finding out really nasty bits about the affair partner, the one they wish to have around our children, can BACKFIRE. Especially if it is nasty stuff your PI finds out. Like she owes tens of thousands of dollars or she has a rap sheet with the police, or like the wistress, had a former drug problem, or say she has broken up several other marriages, or embezzled or something. I am sure where there is RAMPANT LYING and sneaking, there is more.
I'd have my PI work like a dog getting intel on the ow and on wh since things don't make sense about where he moved and why he refused to give his forwarding address after abandoning the family.

Then I'd get the PI to overnight or fax all documents and findings to the lawyer and tell them to play dirty.

You might get alot more going your way. Plus, if he finds out that his skanky mistress ACTUALLY IS a skanky mistress through certain findings, it causes terrible terrible problems with the affair and helps break it up too, while ALSO helping you win your court case. I mean, seriously, my xwh had no idea, the woman who he'd just married, who he'd carried on an illicit affair with, who had his baby almost out of wedlock with, had NEVER graduated from high school and had been a druggie before she was a model.

Oh he LOVED LOVED knowing about that!(giggle). And she was never allowed to ever be really alone around my child if he was over there. Plus I forwarded the info to her x fiancee (who she cheated on with my xh) and he got FULL CUSTODY of their son whom they had together.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/24/11 04:12 AM
Are there any free public record websites online?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/24/11 04:44 AM
Also, where is this intermediary "manual" that someone mentioned?

I am having trouble with changing the cell phone because I love to text message people and i would miss that oh so much.... shocked .... I know, right? But since he's been reminded and he responded okay to the IM, maybe I will just leave it as is unless he does it again....
Originally Posted by mehr
Okay I've been reading around and I have a question. Is Plan B effective at all? How high is the failure rate? The affair has only been since December, emotional at first and physical, as best I can tell, less than a month. I guess if it goes to divorce, I'd like to be the one to file and get the upper hand to take care of the kids. Just trying to figure out my risks. I sure hope it doesn't come to that.... we have 4 kids that need their daddy.... and I am a stay at home mom and this decision could change our whole life. I am so sad that he won't make the decision with his head that is right because he thinks he "loves" her.

I'm kind of curious about the history of success/failure of Plan B, too. It seems like there are two opinions on the goal of Plan B. One is that the goal of Plan B is personal recovery. I totally get that and it seems to be a good way to achieve that. However, with all the focus on exposure, etc, the second goal of Plan B seems to be to get the WS back home. And I'm wondering how effective Plan B really is at the second goal, statistically.

Regardless, Plan B is still good. Because even if goal #2 isn't achieved, then it's all the more important to Plan B for goal #1. But I am still curious.
Dr. H has been a relationship counselor for years and he advocates plan b when anything else is only going to further destroy the remaining LB.

There are no other plans out there that are "better".
In fact, many "plans" seem to be watered down MB ideas.

There are other forums, but I think by far MB is the most well thought out option.
If there is a better option out there, I have not read about it.

No one can make a WS come home.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/24/11 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Hyacinth
Originally Posted by mehr
Okay I've been reading around and I have a question. Is Plan B effective at all? How high is the failure rate? The affair has only been since December, emotional at first and physical, as best I can tell, less than a month. I guess if it goes to divorce, I'd like to be the one to file and get the upper hand to take care of the kids. Just trying to figure out my risks. I sure hope it doesn't come to that.... we have 4 kids that need their daddy.... and I am a stay at home mom and this decision could change our whole life. I am so sad that he won't make the decision with his head that is right because he thinks he "loves" her.

I'm kind of curious about the history of success/failure of Plan B, too. It seems like there are two opinions on the goal of Plan B. One is that the goal of Plan B is personal recovery. I totally get that and it seems to be a good way to achieve that. However, with all the focus on exposure, etc, the second goal of Plan B seems to be to get the WS back home. And I'm wondering how effective Plan B really is at the second goal, statistically.

Regardless, Plan B is still good. Because even if goal #2 isn't achieved, then it's all the more important to Plan B for goal #1. But I am still curious.

Ahhh.... I wrote that two months ago.... alas for back when I was in Plan A....

Anyway.

I have decided to garage sale all of the baby stuff. If WH comes back, he's getting a vasectomy. If I want to have a baby with a different husband someday, I wouldn't want to use the same stuff I think it would be "triggering."
Plan B IS mostly about protecting your LB. It has been stated that the biggest chance of NOT having marital recovery is actually the BS not wanting to recover. This gives YOU a better chance.

You need to do MB with NO EXPECTATIONS.

That means that Plan A is done without expecting anything from your WS and Plan B, DITTO.

MOST affairs die a natural death within 2 years, so there is no coincidence that DrH has stated that a BS should be in Plan B for 2 years.

I myself, am in no hurry to get remarried, or even be divorced, so I am okay staying in Plan B for 2+ years, for personal recovery alone.

I can see how eventually, even with the minimal breaks that I have in my Plan b, that I would get to a point where I wouldn't even consider marital recovery. I am not there yet, but I can see how I could be.

That's why it is very important to plug up those holes. You need to protect YOURSELF AND YOUR LB.

There is no guarantees with Plan B, for marital recovery, but it is your best option. I'll take that chance any day.
Posted By: IzzyB Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/24/11 07:07 PM
mehr, i have just found this site and it has helped me immensely, if only to help me be strong. I so admire that you have been able to follow plan b at all, I am not so strong. I have cried when I read your posts, the pain these situations cause is unbelievable! I also have been a stay at home mom for over 10 years and he left us in shambles. What I wanted to say, besides offering my prayers and any support I might can give, is that how can a man who says he loves us do this to us? I dont get that at all. I have come to realize that he loves himself more and he has sacrificed his family for himself. YOU and your children deserve much, much more than what your husband has to offer. I could not BELIEVE my husband did this to us, AND now OW is pregnant. I also am feeling the heartache and pain, my littlest wanted his daddy back home. But in my case, the trust is destroyed forever and I find myself wondering why I have so little self respect for myself that I even give him the time of day. Hang in there, girl. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/24/11 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Plan B IS mostly about protecting your LB. It has been stated that the biggest chance of NOT having marital recovery is actually the BS not wanting to recover. This gives YOU a better chance.

You need to do MB with NO EXPECTATIONS.

That means that Plan A is done without expecting anything from your WS and Plan B, DITTO.

MOST affairs die a natural death within 2 years, so there is no coincidence that DrH has stated that a BS should be in Plan B for 2 years.

I myself, am in no hurry to get remarried, or even be divorced, so I am okay staying in Plan B for 2+ years, for personal recovery alone.

I can see how eventually, even with the minimal breaks that I have in my Plan b, that I would get to a point where I wouldn't even consider marital recovery. I am not there yet, but I can see how I could be.

That's why it is very important to plug up those holes. You need to protect YOURSELF AND YOUR LB.

There is no guarantees with Plan B, for marital recovery, but it is your best option. I'll take that chance any day.

I can't imagine waiting 2 years in Plan B.... maybe if God called me to.... but otherwise I think after a year I will be done. Time itself works against me. Even now I think back to how he was in 2010 and I wonder why I would want that back? COULD he be better, yes, but I also found a few journal entries that I brought to the counselor, how I was being treated around Christmas.... not cool.... I think it COULD be better and I think he is a good guy essentially, but if he lives this out for 2 years I will no longer believe that.
It is easy to begin to lose hope in plan B. Why? Because IF you have gotten to the stage where the waywards' actions and affair WARRANTS YOU TO MOVE to plan B, then things are a bit worse.

There are imho many ws' out there whom upon exposure drop the op like a hot potatoe. And there are some who continue to negatively spiral further down after exposure and are the hard ws' to break. If you get to plan B, then it's an entrenched affair imho.

So, that is that. Plan B is a way to remove yourself from the drama and has MANY HIDDEN and many OPEN bonuses to it. One is that when you remove yourself from the drama, and reality begins to be up against the affair, they can't band against you. It will no longer be "us" vs. bs anymore. See? That is one huge thing I can tell you from having lived thru this. For a good long while it was my xwh and ow versus me. They would band against me and it was THE ONLY D*AMN THING THAT ACTUALLY UNIFED THEM AT ALL. You see, it is easy to make the bs look like the bad guy IN THE BEGINNING OF THE AFFAIR isn't it?

I mean, for an affair to even happen, there is twisting and rewriting of truth, and so much lying that you cannot imagine. Thus, you HAVE to be the bad guy, even if you're by no means that way at all. You were SPUN that way.

The other good thing about plan B is the reality factor of it. You're not there to meet the important EN's like family, home, comfort, and yes, there are loving en's that you filled. So the skanky op has to do ALL OF THAT and more. Plus if you can get either very limited time with the kids around the ws and hopefully the kids NEVER around the op at all, then the ws feels the absence from the home EVEN STRONGER. They feel the void. And then there's getting hit with paying cs or ss and not being able to support an affair, second residence, and all bills for two households either. So that's another love buster to the skanky affair.

So here's a rundown of plan b and it's GOOD POINTS: you remove yourself from their seedy little sleaze triangle, you make the op meet all the en's, you take $ away from the affair, the ws sees the kids far less, sees the bs NEVER, and has to begin to face reality.

When your wh runs into a friend from church or a relative, (whom I hope you have exposed to), then they will say something to them. Everybody will know about their little secret, and it won't be pretty to them. They'll FEEL the repercussions of their actions.

So imho, some of the really powerful stuff happens in the plan B. Not to mention, if you go to court, you RE EXPOSE all over again, in the court of law, in front of hundreds of people from your town, and get the affair partner to be exposed too! Double win! Plus, there's the feeling of going into that courtroom and having a judge lecture the ws too that usually happen.

People say plan B doesn't work, but there are lots here who have had plan B work for them.

My xwh's affair basically ended six months after his affairage to the wistress, which would have placed it directly at the two year mark, when he lamely tried to ask me out (which I DECLINED as he was married), and tell me how he'd made a horrible mistake being with her, getting her pregnant and marrying her. But alas, I don't date married.

Usually imho, the affair WILL end sometime during the first two years. Too much life and too much loss of their stupid fantasy. It is basically doomed.

So don't give up. YOU work it HARDER than A sometimes, if it has to get to that point.

And it is up to you, if and when you ever choose to have the WS to come back, and it is up to you if at any time you decide you've had it with them period. Others may do something different, but when the ow was pregnant, I decided to divorce him. However, (for the poster who has the ow pregnant above) there are many marriages saved who have an oc.

During plan B you do recover yourself. I mean, it is the weight of being with a wayward, interacting and the crazy making that's gone. Many many times the ws DOES INDEED COME BACK, but even if they don't, guess what? You got yourself back and I'm glad I did the whole MB plan.

My M didn't survive, but then again I had one of the worst MB offender ws EVER! But his actions and attempt to reconcile at the 2 year mark were right on target wtih MB. I also have to say, knowing MB and its' precepts, has helped me in my new marriage and helps us have the marriage I always dreamed of! I am happier now than ever.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/24/11 09:04 PM
Thanks for all your words!!

I will say that he told me that she has her tubes tied.... so there shouldn't be an OC.... but if there were there would be only two acceptable options for me, one he never sees the child or two he and I adopt the child and she never sees the child. That's all. No triangles.

I just don't know if I have it in me to wait two years. But maybe that is what God wants me to do. One day at a time... I don't think I can set an end date for Plan B yet.
Posted By: Kirby Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/24/11 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
My M didn't survive, but then again I had one of the worst MB offender ws EVER!

Peachy, do you have a thread somewhere telling your story? I'd love to hear your experiences with MB.
Posted By: IzzyB Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/25/11 09:32 AM
[quote=IzzyB YOU and your children deserve much, much more than what your husband has to offer.

I am so new to this and have been reading many many posts. IN NO WAY did I intend to imply anything opposite of MB and vets advice. Offering support only.
Posted By: atena Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/25/11 02:08 PM
Mehr,
Quote
I think it COULD be better and I think he is a good guy essentially, but if he lives this out for 2 years I will no longer believe that.

This sentence was an eye opener to me! Yes, if they can be with trash (OW) for so long they can never be the good guy they once were. They are far far gone.
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/25/11 02:18 PM
Hi peachy
so your WH marriage to OW lasted from 2004 to 2011, 7 years?
Quote
For a good long while it was my xwh and ow versus me. They would band against me and it was THE ONLY D*AMN THING THAT ACTUALLY UNIFED THEM AT ALL. You see, it is easy to make the bs look like the bad guy IN THE BEGINNING OF THE AFFAIR isn't it?

I am convinced that this, at the beginning of the A, is the glue that keeps them together as OW hears all the things WH does not like about BS and modifies herself accordingly to fit what WH wants from a woman. SO she molds herself to be the anti-BS.
But after a while when, like in my case, exposure was wide and far and I really give them no trouble whatsoever....

I guess they could still be bitching about me exposing to all and making a big deal out of him leavin me when he had warned me he would. So why can I be so hard headed!
But still, after almost 2 years that game can't hold much longer.
I think what holds them together is the anti-BS personality the OW has developed. Up until she adores the WH and pretends to be the opposite of the BS, then the A goes on as WH choices keep being validated by OW.
When OW turns into the sewage and witch she actually is....the story might end. If it does not, then WH ends up spending lots of years of his life in a landfill.
blessing
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/25/11 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Hi peachy
so your WH marriage to OW lasted from 2004 to 2011, 7 years?
Quote
For a good long while it was my xwh and ow versus me. They would band against me and it was THE ONLY D*AMN THING THAT ACTUALLY UNIFED THEM AT ALL. You see, it is easy to make the bs look like the bad guy IN THE BEGINNING OF THE AFFAIR isn't it?

I am convinced that this, at the beginning of the A, is the glue that keeps them together as OW hears all the things WH does not like about BS and modifies herself accordingly to fit what WH wants from a woman. SO she molds herself to be the anti-BS.
But after a while when, like in my case, exposure was wide and far and I really give them no trouble whatsoever....

I guess they could still be bitching about me exposing to all and making a big deal out of him leavin me when he had warned me he would. So why can I be so hard headed!
But still, after almost 2 years that game can't hold much longer.
I think what holds them together is the anti-BS personality the OW has developed. Up until she adores the WH and pretends to be the opposite of the BS, then the A goes on as WH choices keep being validated by OW.
When OW turns into the sewage and witch she actually is....the story might end. If it does not, then WH ends up spending lots of years of his life in a landfill.
blessing

Yeah... some thoughts on this.... April 9, 2011.... the day that my husband came home and said a lot of things, one of them being that he isn't sure she REALLY likes all the same things as him or if she just likes them because he likes them. HMMM. He had a full day of clarity. I hope there's love busters all over the place over there. Trouble is Dr. Harley says its after marriage that women want to go their own way (recreationally)... so OW will I suppose continue "liking" all this stuff for who knows how much longer.

She is definitely the anti-BS. We are even opposite in myers briggs personalities, if what WH said is accurate.
Hey Mehr, just wanted to reach out and say I feel your pain. My WH keeps on trying to contact me too. Its painful for me when he does that because if he misses me so much like he says then why continue on with OW? Who understands these people?! I got a lot of great info from the people that posted on your thread so thank you all for that from me also! clap

Keep strong Mehr! And remember you have a friend here, and maybe we can get through this and learn together.

Live and learn! {{{{mehr}}}}
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/26/11 08:43 PM
Just feeling very fearful today.... I had been calling the lawyer, asking when can we get a court date? The secretary finally told me that we HAVE TO wait 30 days from when he got served (5/20) and there is nothing we can do until then, and even then we have to get a court date and not sure how quick that will be because my county requires both lawyers to be on a conference call to even set it up.

So he is sitting over there with a full paycheck, and all the money I have is all I will have for an undetermined amount of time. There is no protection for mothers..... he is punishing me for cashing that check.... and now he can have all the fun he wants.... and I have no idea when I will have any money than what I have now..... how can a decent man go SO BAD. I cannot conprehend what is happening to my life.... all I do is deal with things.... and he gets a vacation.... and he dumped 4 kids on me.... I hate him.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/26/11 09:06 PM
Does anyone know if with a legal separation I can sell the house? I am going to need to find something cheaper.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/26/11 09:08 PM
Then again I wouldn't qualify for another house because I have no job.... I am truly stuck in the worst possible spot with no options...
Is the house in both of your names? If so, you might want to tell him that you cannot pay the mortgage. Any money you have will have to go to food and necessities.

Also:

Check out local food banks
Power companies have programs to help those in need
Ask for help at your church

And document everything you have to do to survive. It will help out in court.

Also re-expose to everyone, that he has left you destitute.
You are again waiting on YOUR LAWYER who imho, isn't doing a good job of protecting you. They are trying to get a REGULAR hearing...I SAY YOU GO TO THE COURTHOUSE like I've been telling you to do, and talking to the judge's assistant or somebody there to find out how to get an EMERGENCY hearing since things are so dire.

Why are you waiting to try this approach? If your lawyer cannot try to get you AN EMERGENCY HEARING they aren't much of a lawyer at all and are not protecting you or your kids.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/26/11 10:13 PM
Maybe things are different here?? They said there is NO WAY to get a hearing until he's responded and he gets 30 days.... I feel like I have no options....
Well, interesting.
Guess you have to use the car insurance $ you planned on saving for security.
Ugh.

Document all funds spent. Keep reciepts of everything and start a spreadsheet with categories. Don't leave out a single dime.

Document, document, document.

When the hearing finally happens.......take all documentation with you.

Originally Posted by mehr
Does anyone know if with a legal separation I can sell the house? I am going to need to find something cheaper.
You can't sell it alone. I don't know what state you're in, and I don't know if you're both on the title, but you'll at minimum need his signature on the deed. Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear frown
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/26/11 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by reading
Guess you have to use the car insurance $

Yup and that's just the way he planned it.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by reading
Guess you have to use the car insurance $

Yup and that's just the way he planned it.

Well, he didn't plan on it but he is having a tantrum and figures you are against him cause you didn't hand it over to him and gosh darn it he thinks he is very clever making you use it.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/27/11 01:10 AM
I kinda feel like I am against him right now! I sure wish I could be the one putting pressure instead of the one experiencing it. I guess time will correct. Maybe child support and alimony will hit during a week when OW and her kids are being super annoying and he'll have time to rethink his life.
Originally Posted by mehr
Maybe things are different here?? They said there is NO WAY to get a hearing until he's responded and he gets 30 days.... I feel like I have no options....
I've seen three different lawyers regarding my own situation and on certain topics I've gotten three different answers about what is possible and what is not. From the ones who tell me something is not possible, what I've found it really means that they don't want to fight for that specific thing for some reason. Maybe it is hard to get, maybe there is a chance they won't get it and they'll look like they failed; there are a lot of people who would rather give up without trying than try and fail at something.

I say start interviewing other lawyers until one tells you what you want to hear. On one hand they're not going to go so far as to promise you something they don't know for sure they can get, but if one says it's possible and they'll try, that's the kind assertiveness and aggressiveness you want.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/27/11 02:56 AM
I don't have enough money to get another lawyer. frown
You know Mehr , I get this . I am on food stamps and medical assistance and I never thought I would be. I do not even know day to day how I am going to pay the bills, but I know no matter what , we will be okay. We are not to blame, and though it doesn't feel like it, we are slowly but surely getting stronger. I did not want to tell anyone how bad my situation was, but I did, and they helped. Whether with food, or a bill. No one knows your in a bad place with the kids, unless you tell them . Nobody likes ugliness and they will help. Mehr, I am in a bad place with my boys , I am in foreclosure and have no steady income. But it will be ok. I promise. We will be OK.
Hey mehr, wow you've gone through so much since I last read your post! I know how it feels to feel so helpless. The first 7 months after dday, I had no choice but to stay living with WH. I had zero income of my own and I was pregnant. The pain I went through living there and knowing he was going to go see OW and him still sleeping in the same bed as me was indescribable! I live on my own now but with very limited income. I have applied for medicaid because my WH failed to pay our insurance and they closed it. I have also applied for food stamps. I've always said I would never do this, but uou have to do what you have to do to keep your family safe. WH only gives me $240 a month for DD. That doesn't go very far since I'm the one doing the transporting from my house to his for DD.

Look into government help for now. The resources are there! And fight girl! Don't give up until you get what you need from this irresponsible man!
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/28/11 03:10 AM
I am going to call legal aid on Monday and see if we would have to start over if I could get a lawyer through them... I don't have time to start over, but it doesn't seem that my lawyer is really very interested in helping me.... that's the way it feels anyway.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/28/11 03:14 AM
Ok I HAVE TO ask... how long does the "soul mate" stage last? How long until he no longer thinks she is his perfect match?

Again, NO IDEA whats going on in affairland, so this question is just out of the space in my head.

Don't hit me with too many boards.... but tell me how long!!

Praying....
A minute, one day, one hour, one year, one decade, one century. It doesn't matter to you.

I look at it this way, my WH is not at home working on our marriage, so whatever he thinks and does has no bearing on what I am doing and what MY plans are.

I have an end date for my Plan B, and that means that is when I will enter Plan D. If my WH hasn't pulled his head out of his azz by then, then it is what it is. If he does, we shall see. I will not, however, ever communicate directly with my WH or OW as long as the A is still on(OW, I won't communicate with again).

I know that these thoughts come up. I know that you can become obsessive about when this will be over and how much more of this you will have to endure. I used to even say that as long as I KNEW that my WH would come back, one day, I would be okay. Guess what? I don't know that my WH will come back, and I am still going to be okay.

When we tell you that you need to re-focus, you need to try to do it. Small steps at first. That way, you will feel better and better.

You can do this. One foot in front of the other, one step at a time.
The soul mate stage is more likely to end (the affair dying a natural death) if you stay out of the drama and have no (zero) contact.
The marriage fuels the fantasy romance of the affair.
If you are totally out of it........it has to sink or swim without you.

So. No answer on the time frame.

Just know that your lack of participation in the triangle is the best approach.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/29/11 03:34 AM
Well, we have no contact, I hear nothing from him at all... he hears nothing from me....

The more I think about my lawyer the more upset I get. I really don't think he is helping me out.
Originally Posted by mehr
Well, we have no contact, I hear nothing from him at all... he hears nothing from me....

The more I think about my lawyer the more upset I get. I really don't think he is helping me out.

Not hearing from your WH is a good thing in Plan B, you just don't see that yet.

Mehr, I know it's hard and the legal system does seem to grind slowly. Did you ask your attorney's office about an emergency ex parte hearing for a TRO and support? (WH doesn't have to be present for that, but does gets an opportunity to respond later.) What state are you in? I know that some jurisdictions will do this and some won't unless there is some kind of family violence involved.

If you feel like your attorney is blowing you off, please go back to his office and wait until you are seen. Now, I understand if the process IS at a point where his hands are tied from moving ahead any further, but it is his JOB to make you understand the whys and why nots. He works for you. Unfortunately, there may not be anything else that can be done legally until your husband answers (responds) to the suit.

Do you belong to any church? Sometimes churches have ministries that will help you out. If not, call your local United Way office and tell them your situation.

Please start acting on this now because sometimes these places that will help have their own slow process or waiting lists.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/31/11 12:06 AM
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Originally Posted by mehr
Well, we have no contact, I hear nothing from him at all... he hears nothing from me....

The more I think about my lawyer the more upset I get. I really don't think he is helping me out.

Not hearing from your WH is a good thing in Plan B, you just don't see that yet.

I think I get it... it keeps my life relatively calm instead of being face to face with the reality of what he is choosing to do....

It being a holiday, I wish I had a "normal life" like all the other people around me. I want to have a normal marriage and family and not this broken mess...
Posted By: AndyM Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/31/11 12:55 AM
Hang in there Mehr! This too, shall pass. It's tough when you're in the middle of it, but it'll pass eventually. I've been on the 'coaster all day with more mood swings than usual. I just tried to keep busy and that helped a bit.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 05/31/11 02:12 AM
Originally Posted by AndyM
Hang in there Mehr! This too, shall pass. It's tough when you're in the middle of it, but it'll pass eventually. I've been on the 'coaster all day with more mood swings than usual. I just tried to keep busy and that helped a bit.

Keeping busy helps, and even without him being around, I get on my own roller coaster.... tonight all I want is him to care enough to stop what he is doing... and I get to these points where I feel like, if he really isn't going to come back, I don't want to waste all this time waiting for him... but I am so sad because I love him and wanted to be with him until I die... and if he marries her and I marry someone else, our kids will always have to deal with two homes... even when they are adults....
(((((Mehr)))))

I remember having these same thoughts last year. This year, not so much.
I don't know if this will help, put it's part of the process. I dpn't think about that as often as I once did. I am much calmer and much more healed. As long as you stick with the steps and listen to people when they tell you to get those holes plugged up and start thinking about things other than your WH, it will get better, I promise.

Just Sunday night, however, I told my DSx2, "When I made the decision to have children, I chose someone whom I trusted. I made the decision believing that I would be raising these children with someone whom I loved and who had the same morals and values as I did. That I wouldn't be doing it alone. Well, that's changed, and that makes me mad." I am hoping to raise good and decent men, husbands and fathers. smile

Take care of yourself. laugh
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/01/11 10:56 PM
Ugh... so today he sent IM messages about wanting the kids earlier than the original schedule, but we have one appointment to work around, and of course.... it is when the other woman is not at work.... so I just know she is involved. I could see I couldn't put it off, so I had the IM send him a message saying I don't want our kids around his affair partner because it really upsets them.

Now I am waiting on response... I just have a bad feeling about this. My kids are already confused, and they are so young, and it would go a long way in his fantasy if they would like her...
How do you know the OW is not at work?
Unless he actually gets them and have them meet with her...do not anticipate. Also, don't anticipate they will like her should they be placed in a situation where they do meet with her.
Also, do not outguess DH's agenda.

If it works for the change in schedule without all the conjecture, allow it.
If it doesn't work for your plans don't agree.

YK?

Ok Mehr.

Take a proactive stance. Tell via IM that "our children will NOT BE EXPOSED to your destructive affair. They are confused enough and will not be around in immoral situation. No spending the nights when and if she is there."

This is something you must must stick to. What is the story with this ow anyhow? Who is she? What's her story? I've said time and time again, (and what I DID AND WHAT HELPED DESTROY THE AFFAIRAGE) and keep my son from even the ow who became his w (my xwh never let her alone around my child much after he found out) that the info I got from the PI WHEN I HAD THE OW INVESTIGATED showed she had a very dark skeleton in her closet. One that my xwh DID NOT KNOW ABOUT.

So his perfect lying posow, who he married, had a very dark secret that would not fare well if I took him back to court (so I used it at every turn). I suggest you also get the goods on the ow too. I bet if she can lie, cheat and conspire to kill a marriage, she has done some really bad stuff too!

Stand firm. Let him know and DEMAND your attny get an emergency hearing asap.

Of course you miss him. You miss the good times. You miss what could be. Did you ever see the movie "men in black"? My son loved that movie, and he himself, in all his five year old wisdom back then, explained the behavior of his horrible wayward daddy to me in an analogy from men in black.

Daddy is like the mean farmer who wasn't nice to his wife and then got too close to the crashed alien space ship. He was pulled into the ship, and then the alien walked around looking like Edgar, the bad farmer. He wore an "edgar" suit. Daddy has AN ALIEN INSIDE OF HIM.

That is what a wayward spouse, the really really wayward ones, the ones who move out and cheat and abandon their families are like. There is only ONE WAY TO DEAL WITH this type of ws. And it is TO DEAL WITH THEM HARSHLY TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.

Having them have life and legalities simply "not work for them" is the quickest way for them to bottom out and maybe, just maybe "see the lighthouse" within you or the way back home. Some do come back, others who are really bad waywards don't. And they'll continue to wreak more havoc and destruction than you can imagine.

Thus, you're doing THE RIGHT THING by reacting as harshly as you can in dealing with them b/c if they do not come back, they will learn how to live life ON YOUR TERMS, not their foggy wayward terms. Trust me, I did this and dealt with it.

Your interaction and any at all messages filtered thru your IM show a very foggy man even from a distance.

Sure, I missed the man I married. I DID NOT MISS THE ALIEN though. And when I divorced him, I buried the man I married emotionally. Thus I was going to be able to move forward.

The waywards, if they choose to forever remain wayward do not heal. They get WORSE. Like an alcoholic or drug addict. Much worse.

I think you're doing great, and don't worry. Life needs to smack this guy upside his head right now. Let things spiral downward for him and let the skanky ow be known that YOU WON'T LET YOUR KIDS AROUND HER because of the immorality and because also of the MENTAL TRAUMA AND EMOTIONAL HARM the affair has done to the kids because of their DAD'S AFFAIR AND ABANDONMENT. That is what you parrot to him only via the IM. Kids not around ow because of DADDY'S AFFAIR AND ABANDONMENT OF THE KIDS AND ALL THE EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL TRAUMA AND IMMORALITY. Just too much for them.

You stick to this and to your guns and please, please, get some serious intel on the ow. Your wh might thank you one day too. I found out the intel on my xwh's new wife (we'd just divorced and he instantly remarried her within days of it) and when my xwh found out, it threw him for a loop and he even left her for a few days. I found out via a PI and intel, that she had had a drug problem in her early 20's.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/02/11 02:42 AM
I can't. If I keep the kids from him it will look bad for me in court. frown
You're not keeping the kids from him, you're keeping them from the EMOTIONAL DAMAGE THE AFFAIR AND OW HAS CAUSED.

That is the way to say it. He must arrange to have the kids when she is not there. After all, it is IMMORAL.

There's no judge saying diddly squat right now. You're going for full custody so I'd just stand my ground. Let daddy play daddy but not when skankho is around. Kids do not need to be exposed to that!

Mehr...can't equals won't.

YOU CAN get intel on the ow. Like I repeat over and over, THERE PROBABLY ARE VERY DARK SKELETONS IN HER CLOSET SHE DOESN'T WANT UNCOVERED. Your job is to uncover them!

When I revealed to my xwh what the PI found (I went after this angle a bit later at the end of the divorce), it seriously shook up my xwh and suddenly he wonderd who the heck was the man shacked up with? He saw the posow in a not very good light and suddenly freaked out.

I think if that had been done much earlier, that it would have been a quite effective tool in breaking them up as well as the affair. You see, if you find out something really really awful about the om or ow, then the WS thinks on a different level...DO I WANT THEM AROUND MY KIDS NOW? My xwh was suddenly not wanting his live in mistress at all to be around my son after that. And he has tried to take custody of his daughter with ow from her b/c of her shady past.

OW don't make good mommies and OM don't make good daddies. Thee is ALWAYS something to find. Judge will love it too.

What about the identity of the ow? Who is she? How does she know wh? You haven't revealed much about her.
Originally Posted by peachyisback
You're not keeping the kids from him, you're keeping them from the EMOTIONAL DAMAGE THE AFFAIR AND OW HAS CAUSED.

That is the way to say it.

Agreed. If it ever comes up in front of a judge, take the offensive, turn it around on your husband.

Seriously. What do YOU have to be ashamed/scared of here? You did nothing wrong.

Refresh my memory, don't your husband and OW work together?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/02/11 05:13 AM
Yes they do work together!! and I wrote a letter to the work and I didn't hear back..... I don't know if anything happened because of Plan B....

She is a nearly divorced woman that was looking for someone serious to replace her 3 kid's dad with..... she found my husband..... the rest is history.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/02/11 05:14 AM
She is 24.... had her first kid at 17..... she seems very much like trailer trash.... but he thinks she is wonderful
Mehr - this is so doomed for failure. A woman who wants a man to replace and become daddy when he is not doesn't have much of a success rate.

It is built on nothing. As her kids grow, they will grow to hate your husband.

I am with you on wanting the two of them to blow up now, but it hasn't happened yet. Wait until Christmas. You will be having your Tree, Santa, and all the great things happen with your kids.

He will look at her and her kids and wonder, why am I here when I should be there watching them open presents.

Patience is our necessity at the moment.

Tough~
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/02/11 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by peachyisback
You're not keeping the kids from him, you're keeping them from the EMOTIONAL DAMAGE THE AFFAIR AND OW HAS CAUSED.

That is the way to say it.

Agreed. If it ever comes up in front of a judge, take the offensive, turn it around on your husband.

Seriously. What do YOU have to be ashamed/scared of here? You did nothing wrong.

Refresh my memory, don't your husband and OW work together?

See I am getting mixed messages. I have other people telling me that the courts don't care that she is his affair partner and that if I keep the kids from him it will look bad for me in court.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/02/11 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Mehr - this is so doomed for failure. A woman who wants a man to replace and become daddy when he is not doesn't have much of a success rate.

It is built on nothing. As her kids grow, they will grow to hate your husband.

I am with you on wanting the two of them to blow up now, but it hasn't happened yet. Wait until Christmas. You will be having your Tree, Santa, and all the great things happen with your kids.

He will look at her and her kids and wonder, why am I here when I should be there watching them open presents.

Patience is our necessity at the moment.

Tough~

Actually her kids love him. Back in Plan A I heard about it.... because their dad cusses at them.... they told their daddy they wanted their mom to be with MY HUSBAND and not him.

The IM didn't tell me exactly what he said, but he basically is saying that the kids like her and they are just confused because I call her mean lady. That's not true though, I taught them what the Bible says about marriage and that you shouldn't date while married, and they only met her once and that was before they knew she was "dating" daddy and tearing the family apart.
Of course, in fantasyland, ALL the children just LOVE all the AP's.

I teach high school, lemme tell you, with 20 + years expereince, -- I find it a VERY rare situation where a step -mom, step - dad, mom's - boyfriend or dads girlfriend is even tolerated by the children.

Usually a 5 letter word is used to refer to them, and it is almost never "mommy" or "daddy". grumble

BTW-
Why is your IM telling you this stuff? This is only hurting you, and is not important to your recovery.
Fantasy. (that the kids would love her considering what she is doing)
Blameshifting (that you are the one causing the children confusion)
Justification (that you are even questioning the effect on the kids)

You need to continue to request that the children have no contact with OW.
You need to see how your lawyer can have that aspect of the situation legally addressed.
You allow full access to WH of the children with the stated caveat they not be exposed to OW
If he does expose kids to her anyway, you document and reiterate that they are not to be exposed to her but document offering access to the children. That you are not trying to stop his access.

Hope that makes sense.

The children will take their strength from you. How you stand up for the family but are supportive that they have some sort of relationship with their father. You build an awesome life with the children and let WH brainstorm his own side of the fence. He does think his new life is better but he might not always think so.

Stay focused on you. Focused on the children being given the best place to ride the storm with you and to thrive and try not to fret if the kids ever wind up seeing OW. Ideally they won't but if they do.....the fantasy is not sustainable when reality is faced with it.

So. Continue requesting through IM and lawyer no children meeting OW but if Wh does it....reiterate through your intermediaries, legally if you are able to and ride that offense the best you can with no lovebusting and breaking your plan B.

You can control your self. Control plan B. Control how the children are nourished while with you.



Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by peachyisback
You're not keeping the kids from him, you're keeping them from the EMOTIONAL DAMAGE THE AFFAIR AND OW HAS CAUSED.

That is the way to say it.

Agreed. If it ever comes up in front of a judge, take the offensive, turn it around on your husband.

Seriously. What do YOU have to be ashamed/scared of here? You did nothing wrong.

Refresh my memory, don't your husband and OW work together?

You need to be specific when this is addressed.

You are not keeping him from the kids just from his bad example. He is free to see the kids as arranged but not with his trailer trash. The court will not frown unless you tell him you cannot see the kids at all. You just have proper boundaries in place till court tells you otherwise.
Get legal advice from a lawyer, probably not the one you have right now, on what you can LEGALLY do to keep your children away from OW.

Here, where I live, I actually couldn't do anything and I would have lost full custody if I tried to keep the kids from visiting WH when he is living with OW. It would have looked very bad for me. But, I knew that, from a legal standpoint, so I had to do what I could. And I bet, if you asked my WH what my kids think about OW, he would say that they like her. But, in reality, they call her, "Evil princess beep." The "beep" is there way of not swearing, and apparently stands for the "b" word. That they came up with all on their own.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/03/11 01:40 AM
The lawyer I have said there is nothing I can do. I didn't ask about what visitation he can have or anything about that, the last time I called with a question they basically told me to stop calling them because its costing me money.

But seriously, I said he could take them at 11 tomorrow despite knowing she will be there. If I say no will it make me look bad in court? I am terrified....
What you state is that the affair is emotional trauma and the ow has, along with the affair caused emotional abuse and the MAIN FACT is it is IMMORAL to live in sin, openly committing adultery within the little eyes of children who do not need to be exposed to this kind of danger.

CAN'T OR WON'T.

You CAN prove that the affair (your lawyer can) has emotionally hurt the children and that the children DO NOT NEED TO SEE IN FULL VIEW AN AFFAIR BEING CARRIED ON IMMORALLY IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES.

IT IS SIMPLY THE WORST KIND OF PARENTING. The kind of abuse that DOES NOT LEAVE A MARK on the skin. But it does on their soul and lives.

Please please get this ow exposed TO HER FAMILY TOO and also dig deep and get a PI and find things out about her. Anybody going so low as to stoop to break up a marriage with kids HAS TO HAVE SKELETONS in their closet. They need to be exposed!

HAVING THAT EXTRA evidence also kept the ow in my case, limited to when and how she was around my child. and that was AFTER MY DIVORCE AND WHEN HE'D MARRIED HER TOO. So it can be done. You do not stop.
There is a WAY to go about this. And it needs to be set in motion also in your sep papers. You need to have it hammered out in the papers that the kids OF COURSE will see their dad for visitation, but that you have PRIMARY AND SOLE custody and that you only send them to him WHEN IT IS ok with you, and WHEN THEY WILL NOT BE EXPOSED TO THE ADULTERY AND AFFAIR and no overnight visitors of opposite sex not related (this is common wording in divorce and sep papers where I live).

If he violates this after the sep hearing, then you drag him into court on contempt charges.

IF YOU FINALLY DO AS I SAY, and GET THE INTEL ON THE OW AND FIND OUT HER SKELETON IN HER CLOSET, expose it surprise in court, then you might could get an order or protection for her to be kept away from your kids. You MUST DIG DEEPER. I guarantee something isn't right with a woman like this. She could have a drug problem (present or past), she could have some interesting police record, she could be a kleptomaniac or theif or have a dui or some sort of jail record.

YOU FIND THAT OUT. You keep digging and the RIGHT attorney doesn't stop either and fights for you and your kids.

NEVER ROLL OVER and accept what you think is your fate. Never.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/03/11 02:42 AM
I did expose to her family, with the letter from here.

I don't know how to get skeletons in her closet.... is there a free way to do that?? I know that her dad is the town drunk and her mom is such trailer trash that during Plan A when WH and I went away for the weekend her mom asked OW if she was worried that he would go back to me??? What??? They are trashy people....
Mehr, I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say I read your entire thread and I so feel for you. You are an incredibly strong person.

hug
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/03/11 05:26 PM
I let him take the kids at 11am today.... I had a garage sale this morning and one of my friend's came to help. I was in the house when WH came to get them (on purpose) but I was seriously incensed when he had the nerve to walk into the garage to show them some catfish he had in a container.... then said he didn't have the carseats, they were at his parents (who live close to me/us) and would have to come back for them.... comes back 15 minutes later... is he crazy?? why would he have the nerve to just walk into the garage and hang out showing some fish around?? You are cheating on me fool!!! BE ASHAMED!!!!
I am so not surprised he walked in and showed the fish.
Waywards have a lot of nerve cause their world is askew in selfness.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/03/11 06:29 PM
But who is this guy!!!! Where is the normal guy!!!!

Yes, I am so triggered...
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/03/11 06:41 PM
I definitely feel that if it weren't for the money stress, this all would be so much easier. When i read other people's threads it seems like many of them don't have the money stress that I am dealing with.

I think I will really 'stabilize' and start doing a lot better if I can get a favorable ruling in terms of financial support. So I just have to hang on for another month....
WE ALL had money stress when we went thru this. LOTS. Sometimes you have to ask your relatives or friends to help you out when it comes to something as crucial as securing sole custody and keeping ow away from kids.

I'd contact a PI and have not only her but her trailer-ish family investigated if it were me. You might get a mother load of information.

The only other way free is to go to the courthouse, and see if they have any documents (court or judgement related) against her and her relatives. But you must pay for the copies (but like a few cents per page to have them printed). Go to every courthouse. Family law court, superior and criminal court. Get names and if possible, addresses and or birthdays on all of them. Go after it. YOu have to do the work somehow.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/04/11 01:03 AM
Okay so as expected he took the children to their smutty rutting lair. Should I send any messages to him about this through the IM?
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/04/11 01:51 AM
They hung out with her and her kids in their two bedroom apartment.
I read your last two posts. I am not sure what you could/should do. Just wanted to let you know I read them.
Try to ride the emotions about it but transcend above them this evening to a calmer place and we will all sleep on it and try to collect our thoughts and give you input on it tomorrow.

Breathe.
I have no clue. What has your legal counsel said about your position here? You have none? If you don't, I think I would reiterate through IM, a nonemotional statement of "Mehr supports you spending time with the children but requests that you do not expose them to (OW name) in the future. She requests that you find another way to spend time with them and nurture your relationship with them during this difficult time ".

Have her put it in an email and make sure she is keeping copies for future reference should you need to show that you are allowing him access but also, respectfully putting the children in his hands.

He is trying to make it that you are the wicked witch having the kids diss OW. That you are a biotch. He is going to try to goad you and paint you as such for the forseeable future. Do your best to be matter of fact with the legal system and through IM, do not be baited into breaking plan B (I think he is kind of trying to get you to do so).

You are a woman who is his wife and the mother of his children.

Someone,find the 'red cape' post for her.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/04/11 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by reading
I have no clue. What has your legal counsel said about your position here? You have none? If you don't, I think I would reiterate through IM, a nonemotional statement of "Mehr supports you spending time with the children but requests that you do not expose them to (OW name) in the future. She requests that you find another way to spend time with them and nurture your relationship with them during this difficult time ".

Have her put it in an email and make sure she is keeping copies for future reference should you need to show that you are allowing him access but also, respectfully putting the children in his hands.

He is trying to make it that you are the wicked witch having the kids diss OW. That you are a biotch. He is going to try to goad you and paint you as such for the forseeable future. Do your best to be matter of fact with the legal system and through IM, do not be baited into breaking plan B (I think he is kind of trying to get you to do so).

You are a woman who is his wife and the mother of his children.

Someone,find the 'red cape' post for her.

Yes, that is the kind of message I want to send. I do have a problem though -- WH does not have email so it would need to be a text message. Those get deleted. I guess I could save my copy that is sent to the IM ... ??? In this case, she could forward my exact words you think?
You stick to your guns and you say that the kids are having issues with his adulterous affair and the emotional harm it is causing.

What I did were:
1)get info and background on the skanky ow
2)not tell A SOUL but get the kids to a child psych to get them to SHOW and DOCUMENT that his affair and exposing them to adultery is causing EMOTIONAL ABUSE. This can be easily done.

The whole "integration" phase of getting the affair partner around the kids is DANGEROUS DANGEROUS and shows the affair going off in a different direction potentially.

What if daddy found out his skankho had a dui? Would he consider marrying somebody like that wondering what would happen if she strapped those kids into their carseats with her driving? What if he found out skankho had an arrest record where she had some kind of violence or domestic violence record? Would he feel safe if he found out she was violent or had those tendencies? What about if she had done drugs in the past?

Not only will those things MAKE THE WAYWARD THINK TWICE about putting the kids around them, but THE JUDGE WOULD THINK TWICE about putting the kids, YOUR KIDS around the affair partner. This is why I say go go go find out about her past! Beg borrow and get money for a PI or be prepared to instantly begin the legwork to get this done.

Also, get the kids to a child psych right now! Get it DOCUMENTED that the affair is causing emotional harm and damage to the kids now. It is. They may appear fine around skankho and daddy, but they're truly not and WE KNOW THAT. This MUST BE DONE.

If that is done also, the JUDGE WILL THINK TWICE of having the kids around ow ever or the affair. And also gives you SOLE CUSTODY.

They are trying to paint the picture of everybody being ok, it's just that daddy is with a new lady now. That is the scary dream of the waywards and they will work together to try to force this down everybodys' throats.

Your job is to further expose the ow by digging out her shady past. They pretty much all have them in one way or another. My old lawyer once said this.."You know, women or men for that matter, who are so deeply involved in an affair that they will be okay with breaking up a family with kids, HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING SERIOUSLY wrong with them."

I found out my xwh's affairage wife HAD A PAST OF DOING DRUGS. My xwh had instantly married her after the divorce and the info came in 2 weeks before it was final. He later recanted and said had she not been pregnant, he wouldn't have married her KNOWING SHE DID DRUGS in her past. It truly freaked him out and we threatened further modifications, so she was never left around my son alone ever when over at the affair rut lair house.

I am SURE 100 percent this is one of the KEY PIECES which led my xh to eventually want to dump her. Apparently he tried to divorce her the following summer. But the outlaws (my x inlaws) talked him out of another divorce.

When they're this much dug into the affair, when they're IMMUNE as it would seem to HARMING THEIR OWN KIDS AND FORCING THIS DOWN THEIR THROATS, and WHEN THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTING THEIR LEGITIMATE FAMILY, YOU GO TO EVERY AND ANY LENGTH TO STOP THIS!

You stop this now. You do the least, which would be to take every effort known to man and womankind and SECURE SOLE CUSTODY. First step in breaking the cycle.

Two failproof ways are to 1)get kids to child psych and document legally that they are being emotionally harmed by their fathers' abandonment of the family. You see by daddy bringing them to the rutting lair, HE IS TRYING TO GET OUT OF THE ABANDONMENT charge, so you STOP THEM from going over there. It's all strategy from here on out
2)You get the background and all negative information you can on the OW and USE IT AGAINST HER. You go after her with everything you have. Borrow or do whatever you can to get a PI to help you or line up your options and search thru the court house records for everything you can find.
The biggest chance of this affair ending is that real life intervenes and does so SOONER rather than LATER.

We teach people how they can treat us. My lawyer once told me "YOU teach that cheating husband of yours to treat YOU AND THE CHILD with RESPECT and you do that by slamming hard down on him legally right now giving him not one inch and bringing hell on earth to his mistress."

How can you accomplish this? I told you how.

I suggest this to EVERY BETRAYED SPOUSE who may be fighting for their kids.

The affair then has a good chance of breaking up if daddy (or mommy if she's wayward) finds out he/she lost the kids because the AFFAIR IS SHOWN WRONG by the judge dude. And if their RUTTING PARTNER is found to be UNFIT to be around the kiddies, courtesy of something in their skanky past, then a RE-ASSESSMENT of their situation goes on almost immediately. Probably will then kill off the ever-entrenched affair where they are living together.
In our last court appearance, right before the divorce, before we ended up in a last minute settle (we were ordered back), my lawyer got the ow on the stand and her roomate, which was AWESOME. The roommate told the judge that yes, they together had done drugs in their apartment (her friend she lived with).

What happened at that same time, was when the OW'S EX FIANCEE AND DAD OF HER CHILD found out about what our PI FOUND OUT, he went to court, got an emergency hearing and HE GOT SOLE CUSTODY AWAY FROM THE OW and to this day, he has sole custody OF HER SON.

Because of me smile Because I was GOING TO PROTECT MY SON AGAINST MY XWH AND OW. Thank God I found out and got a PI.

Anyhow, you should have seen the look on my xwh's face in court when my lawyer called the friend into the court. Her roommate had been (PI found out) busted for drugs. OW didn't think that this could ever come out. But I found out.

My xwh had a look of sheer horror and turned to look at ow in row behind him with that same look and one of DISGUST when the judge was questioning her roomate (ex room mate b/c she was now shacked up with my husband and her child).

REALITY had hit my then wh. He had sitting in the row behind him, his mistress who was almost 8 months pregnant, and he just found out she was involved in illegal drug use.

SCARED MUCH? Oh yes he was. He looked at me like "OMG. What have I done?"

THIS IS WHY YOU GET DIRTY AND FIGHT. Odds are you'll find something out. That and the info from a child psych is PRICELESS and will secure custody.

Look, the OW is neither Beaver cleaver's mom nor is the OM Mr. Brady from the Brady Bunch.

They are evil, conniving, lying, cheating, and STEALING people who have no second thought about hurting or harming kids, breaking their hearts and homes forever, muchless the hearts of the betrayed spouses, whom they'd run over with a heartbeat.

You fight back with intelligence, knowledge, and with sometimes getting some professional help (child psychologists and PI).

You put the proof of the affair being bad (all knowledgeable psychologists can tell you it hurts kids period) BACK UPON THE WAYWARD AND THEIR AFFAIR PARTNER. Never ever let them shove the "brady bunch" scenario down on you if you have kids. Never.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/04/11 09:32 PM
I am so overwhelmed by this.... I am afraid that instead a child psych will tell me that I am upsetting them by telling them that dating while married is wrong.... what if it backfires against me....

Also I have no money for a PI. I have to eat and pay bills and I can only do that for another month because all I have is all I have, and its going to be another month before I get any CS.... possibly more. What if I shell out $300 just to find out she has absolutely nothing in her past??? It could be a waste of time and effort and I will feel stupid. I guess I could pay the 35 dollars for all these sites online that want me to pay.... they may not be efficient though and show me anything either... I don't know how they work.

I cleaned out my text message box.... so many "I love you's" from WH from just 2 months ago... or he sent "I can't wait to see you" while living with the other woman.... these were during Plan A of course. And now.... ??? How can you go from THAT to THIS?
I know it is overwhelming. It sucks majorly to deal with. I am so sorry.

Have your IM keep your emails and try to keep her text messages to WH in her phone. I know there are ways to print them out but having them on her phone is a record.

Send the message through her that I noted earlier AND try to press your lawyer to make a stance for the children being exposed. Or, call around to see if any other lawyer is game to give it a go.

I understand about the PI being expensive. I never hired one but got real good at finding out stuff here and there on my own.

Now that you are in plan B.....I think it best to ride the train and stay focused on you.

It is awful that the kids are being exposed to the OW but know that the fantasy romance is not as lovely with six kids in the mix (alas.....kids mess up romances) Read the part in surviving an affair where Sue and her OM ignored the kids for each other pre- plan B and did vice versa post- plan B.

(maniacal laugh here)

and

hugs
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/05/11 02:16 AM
The idea that it wouldn't be as great of a fantasy with the kids all around has occurred to me.... but what MORE appears in my mind is my kids liking her, or accepting the situation. They are SO little, they will barely remember mom and dad being together.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/05/11 09:56 PM
Thank you reading.... I have been thinking about this. Well, trying not to, but I have been thinking about it anyway. Sigh.

I think I am going to call the doctor tomorrow and see about antidepressants. I feel really snippy with the kids, often on edge...

This morning while getting ready for church I found a letter written from my husband to me in 1999 when we were dating -- he talks about how he will wait however long to marry me and how he knows he is in God's will and it makes him so happy.... along with all the usual mushy gushy "I love yous" ... so sad to see that we have come to this.... please God, I pray he (and she) feels guilt and conviction every waking moment and then has dreams about it at night. Amen.
What about YOU DOING THE FOOTWORK and going to the courts yourself? That is the other option I keep telling you about. It takes hard work though and you need the ow's real name and if you can, her address and names of her relatives or whoever she lived with.

Take that to the courthouse.

Find or get a referral from your church about a FAITH BASED child psych and call and explain to them how it is HARMING them.

I wasn't made of money either, but my then wh was. I didn't have access to alot of $ either. But had a few friends and my grandparents loan me $ for an attny and for the PI.

My lawyer also told me if I went to the courthouse and did that work, it's cheaper that way too. Many of us have walked this path before.

It is just playing smarter than the ws.
Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/05/11 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by peachyisback
What about YOU DOING THE FOOTWORK and going to the courts yourself? That is the other option I keep telling you about. It takes hard work though and you need the ow's real name and if you can, her address and names of her relatives or whoever she lived with.

Take that to the courthouse.

Find or get a referral from your church about a FAITH BASED child psych and call and explain to them how it is HARMING them.

I wasn't made of money either, but my then wh was. I didn't have access to alot of $ either. But had a few friends and my grandparents loan me $ for an attny and for the PI.

My lawyer also told me if I went to the courthouse and did that work, it's cheaper that way too. Many of us have walked this path before.

It is just playing smarter than the ws.

To me doing the footwork... yes it is possible... I am having trouble functioning though... and I have 4 kids under 7. Ever go into a courthouse with 4 kids under 7? Or a bank? I take them everywhere with me now because I have no backup.... rarely get a minute to myself...

I really do need to see the doctor.

Posted By: mehr Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/05/11 11:35 PM
And tomorrow I am going to the aid office with all 4.... and the grocery store.... by the end of the day I am so so spent.... I cannot tell you how exhausting it is... my husband practically abandoned me when the 4th baby was born, made me do it all myself.... I wish I had 2 kids right now. Just 2. When I have 2 kids it is like a day off.
Do see your doctor. Know that anti-Ds take a while to kick in.
Perhaps there is something you can take that would work more quickly and still keep you functioning to care for the kids and not bother the little one you nurse.

After the birth of a child is a common time men cheat. Do not feel that you are alone in that. It is cruel-er but a time when you were even less able to meet his needs and he turned away from you and not to you.

You are not alone. We all understand here.
Posted By: mason Re: WH has broken off with OW and come home... - 06/06/11 03:31 PM
Mehr, My husband starting cheating on me when my son was 1. It must be common, he can go for two weeks without calling the boys. He does not want the responsibilty of a family. It is sad how they can turn away from their families. I guess it does break up the fantasy having kids around, you do not have to worry about a babysitteer. I feel for you, I am snippy with the boys sometimes and I only have two. Four kids are a handful, try to stay patient.
If you are going to go on a anti-depressent, ask for some xanax to help, while the AD's take a while to come into effect.
Hang in there. It is a roller coaster for sure.

Definitely see your doctor about an anti-depressant. I had been on anti-depressants and in therapy once before years ago, so on D-Day, before I even confronted WH, I called my doctor for an appointment to get medication and also get a recommendation for a therapist. I knew this situation was going to be more than I could emotionally handle without help.

You have it even harder than me with four kids instead of my only two and your youngest only being a year old. I know I struggle with having the time and energy to do everything I need to do. Remember that right now things do not have to be perfect. Aim for "good enough."

My DS5 is starting with his child psychologist tonight. If you want details about what his therapist says, let me know. I've already met with her twice. Both my therapist and his told me what to watch for to see if the situation is affecting my kids. Some of the big things were regression (like sleep disturbances or accidents) and seeking security/self-soothing (like using a binky more than usual or another security object).

Are your IMs still your in-laws? I worry about that not helping the situation because they won't filter well enough. One of the biggest things that sets me back is hearing ANYTHING about WH. People have a hard time understanding that I do not want any new information. I do not want to hear about him. If I bring him up that's one thing, because it might be I am trying to process something that's already upsetting me. But no one else should bring him up first, ever.

I also fought the battle of not having OW around my kids and for now I seem to be successful (although I worry that his cooperation on that could change at any moment). One thing that I think helped there was having everyone I could confront him about not exposing our kids to that. I had also talked to three lawyers and only one was assertive and aggressive enough to be willing to fight for that, but that gave me the confidence to stand up for it. I made it very clear I was not depriving him of his kids; he could have them whenever he wanted. What he could not do was expose our kids to his A or OW in any way. I know he spoke to a lawyer over this and he tried to bully me into giving in, but eventually he was the one who did. I don't have any idea why because my IM filter is that good.

Are you doing anything to keep a positive attitude, like keeping a gratitude journal? I journal every night before I go to sleep, even just for five minutes. Believe it or not, it really helps. It might not be for you, but there is something that will work for you.
Good for you Hyacinth! See Mehr? You CAN get the ow away from your kids. And if you're in a state where there's alienation of affection YOU SUE HER TOO.

The child psych can help you with that. You find one who is able to give court testimony and you also ask for the information to be sealed only to you, unless YOU SAY IT IS TO BE PUBLIC. That way no matter the psych's outcome, you control it and whether the court sees it or not. Does that make you feel better?

There are attorneys who will fight for you. YOU tell them what to do.

If you have the name of this OW, I'd be exposing her left and right and re-exposing her too.

You might have to bring them to the court w/you or have a friend GO WITH YOU and watch them for a few minutes while you get your information. YOu do what you have to.

AGAIN, YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. Things rarely fall into your lap. In beating a wayward who is ahead in the lying and cheating category, you have to wake up a bit earlier to go to war with them. You see you have to out connive them. YOu have to out smart them. And the waywards think they have the market cornered on the espionage department.

YOu show the WS that you aren't to be messed with. And that the affair CAN be broken by hard, cold, facts and a darn legal judgement that slaps the affair across its' ugly face.
Okay. Today I went to an interview to try to get aid $$ (with all kids of course), then took the kids to the store. Then I came back here and was in a dark place.

Tomorrow I have to go to the doctor and the daycare to get things squared away and then I must call a new lawyer. Before tball. Okay and I should call the pastor I saw and see if he has a child psych recommendation.

I must do this.
Good Luck, Mehr. I have my boys for three full weeks (happy about that) My WH has to be at a trade show in New Orleans with OW. He does not realize he will only see the boys for one wknd this month, he did not ask me to switch. Again, lack of responsibility or wanting to be with his kids. Document everything, I am, so when I go in front of a judge they can see they see them. Hang in there. I the end of my rope to with little hope of reconciliation. I still pray the husband I knew will come back!! I think we all do...
Good Mehr! You're making steps ahead. Good for you! Keep on going. Little steps ahead. YOu can beat the alien wayward! You can beat this affair!

Just focus on:
being good mommy
staying healthy
KEEPING FOCUSED ON THE PLAN
securing full custody
securing good financial settlement in sep agreement from the wayward

You know..once the affair Is LEGALLY established in the sep agreement hearing, GETTING THE ALIENATION OF AFFECTION SUIT AND GETTING IT WON SHOULD BE A PIECE O' CAKE smile
That's a good point peachy... today I talked to one lawyer, he said that it would cost more if I switch lawyers but I could still do that, and that keeping other women away from my kids is generally not imposed .... I spent 7 hours driving around getting birth certificates, filling out 4 sets of forms at the day care, getting these forms signed by friends to witness that the kids live with me.... it was busy.

Now I am wondering if I just shouldn't bother with a new lawyer for the legal separation.....

I didn't always do so well today. I feel like I can barely keep going. I have a doctors appt tomorrow and counseling if my friend can watch the kids...
Well that's good, but seriously, if you took some of the steps I told you about, the ow AND THE AFFAIR would be kept away from the kids.

I'm not the only one who has done this. Many here have. You're not keeping the WAYWARD PARENT FROM the kids, just the kids from the emotional abuse and trauama of their selfish and evil affairs, which are not condusive to being a good environment for a child to be around in anyway.

If that lawyer won't work with you, then you FIND A LAWYER WHO WILL FIGHT WITH YOU, side by side. Call around. And btw, you ASK FOR ALL YOUR LEGAL costs to be paid for by your wh. Also, the alienation of affection should be a slam dunk. A lawyer who wants to win a second suit and get paid for that too out of your winnings, would love to have you for a client.

Peachy, I am sorry but I need to step in here a minute.

I don't know what the laws are like where Mehr lives, but I can tell you that where I live there is NO WAY to keep my children away from OW. If I denied visitation to WH because he is with OW, I WOULD LOSE CUSTODY. I definitely don't need my children around OW MORE than they are now. The only possible way that I could keep OW away from my children would be immediate PHYSICAL danger. No judge is going to let me keep my children away from my WH because his A is emotionally damaging. I would risk losing my children and being put under investigation by CPS. I am NOT going to risk that, and if Mehr can do some investigating to find out if it IS possible to keep her children away from OW, then I would say go for it. But telling her over and over again that she needs to do it, when she has stated that she has spoken to more than one attorney and they say it isn't possible, isn't helping Mehr, or other who may be lurking and also can't do anything about it.

I envy the fact that you WERE able to keep OW away, I wish it could have happened in my case, but it couldn't.

Mehr, what did you do TODAY for you? What colour are your toe nails? Mine are painted BLACK and I think it's kinda cool. laugh
Stepping in here too, but IT CAN and is done all the time. She needs to TRY. There is NO HARM IN TRYING.

If they MARRY then keeping the ow away from the child is even harder.

That's why I searched and searched and found out the past of ow, and the arrest history of her former apartment room mate for drugs. Got the admission that ow did drugs (when her little boy lived with her too) by the friend of the ow.

YOU get what you can get and try and one point that is TERRIBLY VALID is getting the child psychologist to show that the AFFAIR IS EMOTIONAL ABUSE. That way the court is presented that THE AFFAIR IS BAD, thus the kids are away from THE AFFAIR AND THE OW, but not from the wayward spouse. That way you can limit the involvement and presence of the ow.

In my case, even though my xwh married "it", when he had found out just a few weeks before that she had done drugs in front of her OWN CHILD, he was lectured to NOT HAVE THE OW ALONE around my child and my xwh did do that. Heck I think it scared him to have him (child)around her.

Mehr also is in the unique position to sue the other woman. She lives in an alienation of affection state and I have a friend, former MB'er here, who sued the om and won in his AoA state too.

Not that hard once the legal system SHOWS the affair is fact and a contributing factor to its' demise was indeed THE AFFAIR.

One thing Scotty, legalities are fluid. You can always go back if interesting information surfaces, say on your wh's ow. And in the eyes of a court, certain activities are considered harmful to kids, like drug use, violence, and emotional abuse. So you can renegotiate anything legally at any time you like in the future.

Key is YOU DON'T DENY CUSTODY TO WS because of OP. You deny the EXPOSURE to the affair to the kids because of its' harmful effects, like say asbestos. And it's easily proven that an affair can be emotionally damaging to the kids. If the OW is part of the affair, which she is, then SHE IS DAMAGING TO THE KIDS, not the wayward dad or mom alone. It's how it is presented.
It's presented like a disease causing factor, or a form of emotional or child abuse basically. Like it's something harmful, which we know it 100 percent absolutely IS.

It's so good Mehr that you are seeing a doctor and seeing a counselor too.

In plan B personal recovery is something too that shold be given alot of priority! Good for you!

Do something special for yourself, like Scotty said to do. I'd take long bubble baths at night. That was my "me" thing I'd do.

Tell us one great fun thing you'll do for yourself right now!

You're doing good. You're making steps to ensure the kids are safe, and getting the financials in order, so that's awesome. And I know it's hard with little ones all around. So when maybe they're alseep tucked in bed, you can have a bubble bath maybe or do something like paint your nails/toenails!

I like hot pink for summer. My toes are hot pink right now smile
Originally Posted by Scotland
Peachy, I am sorry but I need to step in here a minute.

I don't know what the laws are like where Mehr lives, but I can tell you that where I live there is NO WAY to keep my children away from OW. If I denied visitation to WH because he is with OW, I WOULD LOSE CUSTODY. I definitely don't need my children around OW MORE than they are now. The only possible way that I could keep OW away from my children would be immediate PHYSICAL danger. No judge is going to let me keep my children away from my WH because his A is emotionally damaging. I would risk losing my children and being put under investigation by CPS. I am NOT going to risk that, and if Mehr can do some investigating to find out if it IS possible to keep her children away from OW, then I would say go for it. But telling her over and over again that she needs to do it, when she has stated that she has spoken to more than one attorney and they say it isn't possible, isn't helping Mehr, or other who may be lurking and also can't do anything about it.

I envy the fact that you WERE able to keep OW away, I wish it could have happened in my case, but it couldn't.

Mehr, what did you do TODAY for you? What colour are your toe nails? Mine are painted BLACK and I think it's kinda cool. laugh

Here is something that may be the case, but I don't WANT to accept: Maybe I can't keep her from them. But then maybe 4 kids will be sobering for her, also. If kids mess up fantasies....

Obviously I do not want to use the kids in this way... but maybe God can use it for good...

Thank you for the support.

I wasn't really able to do anything today for me .... this is my busy last week before I start college again and will be even more busy. Ugh.
Originally Posted by peachyisback
It's so good Mehr that you are seeing a doctor and seeing a counselor too.

In plan B personal recovery is something too that shold be given alot of priority! Good for you!

Do something special for yourself, like Scotty said to do. I'd take long bubble baths at night. That was my "me" thing I'd do.

Tell us one great fun thing you'll do for yourself right now!

You're doing good. You're making steps to ensure the kids are safe, and getting the financials in order, so that's awesome. And I know it's hard with little ones all around. So when maybe they're alseep tucked in bed, you can have a bubble bath maybe or do something like paint your nails/toenails!

I like hot pink for summer. My toes are hot pink right now smile

I know I will feel better once the financials are in order. I want that court date, i want this settled and his income coming this way.

I am not sure what to do for personal recovery... hmm.
Mehr - Something that is helping me cope in Plan B is my ability to look at my WH's infidelity as an addiction, and I was his codependent enabler.

My IC and I have made great progress with me by seeing how codependent I was with my WH all these years. He and I spent many years in the Taker/Giver role; I gave and he took.

It is still hard to let him go, but it is getting easier. Realizing I cannot do anything about his current out of control addiction helps to focus on me, the only person I can control.

That is why Plan B is there because it is your only option to detach from this awful addiction. Dr. H knows that healthy detachment will preserve the love you have, but keep you from emotional scars. You have to treat your WH as a crack addict. Read and research everything you know about addiction. It will help you understand yourself better, how you are not part of this, and how the wayward can only come out of this on their own when they are ready.

Treat OW as the pipe, and dig for information on her, so you can protect your children.

Would you change how you handle the situation if you knew your husband was at a crack house everyday with his pipe?

Cheers Tough~
I'd have a whole lot more legal recourse for keeping the kids away, that's for sure...
I found this and thought it may help you.

Let me explain this in a different context. When I first discovered my WH's affair I fearful for his future. I was plotting all types of strategies to help him.

Our MB based MC was very matter of fact, but not lacking in compassion or faith. She reminded me that I had had a very good rational talk with my WH about infidelity for years. I had also had a second rational conversation with him on Dday. Both times he rejected my advice. There was nothing else I could say. I had to commit my WH to God in a new way, as many times as necessary every day, and let God do His work in His time, even if it meant negative consequences in my WH's life.

The abuser must recognize the consequences of his/her actions. My MC reminded me that God loves my WH more than I do. Not only does God love our kids more than we do, but also His love and ability to work on our WH's behalf are stronger than our love and ability. I am watching that principle work and it is rewarding and humbling to watch.

My MC explained detachment has to be learned by all family members of addicts otherwise you will live your life in an unhealthy and abusive relationship.

Your children are smart and resilent and will know the difference between right and wrong. You have no ownership or control in anything that happens in your WH's life.

This is for your emotional well being. It is difficult because we don't want the outcome we have been given. We don't want the crap our waywards just handed us, but there is nothing we can do. It is our reality, and we are either going to sink or swim.

I strongly encourage you to seek help for codependence. It will allow you to learn about the DJ called control. You will find when you change the DJ you begin to forget about the wayward.

Tough
What I'll say over and over is this. YOU DON'T KEEP THE KIDS FROM THE WS. You keep the kids from being EXPOSED TO THE AFFAIR (hence the affair partner too).

You show and prove that the affair is harmful emotionally to the kids. that is NOT USING THE KIDS it is also protecting them! You have to.

If you live in a fault state, have alienation of affection laws in your state, then by golly, I'd bet it's pretty darn common that you have commonly written into separation agreements and into divorce decrees this: "no overnight visitors of opposite sex allowed when children are in the home of the parent with custody or visitation".

That goes for BOTH betrayed spouse AND wayward btw! That simply means, you don't have exposed to your kids, skanky people shagging mom or dad under the same roof when your kids are visiting you or in your custody. IN GA IT IS ALMOST ALWAYS WRITTEN IN as in many other states too. I did NOT ASK MY LAWYER, she wrote it in.

I've also seen the custodial parent get smacked for that too, meaning after sep/divorce, they suddenly "meet" somebody, begin dating them and having them spend the night while the kids are there.

This is a simple way also to keep the ow from at least spending the night in front of the kids.

Fwiw, before my xwh married the pregnant ow, she could not then live with him and had to go out and get an apartment again. For six months. Before our sep agreement, she had left her old apartment and moved in with him. He'd gotten a bachelor type condo in a trendy area of town when he decided to go wayward with her.

But you sure also try for sole custody also.

But there is no reason at all why you do not try to do the above things. No reason.

I NEVER SAID to keep your WH from seeing the kids. Just make it HARD FOR THE OW AND THE AFFAIR to be around the kids. It IS HARMFUL. It is bad for them. And it also is a tool to possibly kill the affair off more. Another way to make trouble for the affair.

You're mission right now, in plan B is to:
*ABOVE ALL PROTECT THE KIDS (but still let them see dad in a healthy environment)
*secure for yourself and the kids a decent financial agreement in sep papers
*make sure you and kids have health insurance provided by wh in the sep agreement
*get any and all negative info on the ow including police reports
*see if you can see a child psych to get it proven that the affair is harmful (which we know it is)
*SIMPLY ADD IN USUAL sep/divorce language about "no overnight visitors of opposite sex under roof while kids are in custody/visitation". You can allow your relatives in same house though. But NOT BOYFRIENDS OR GIRLFRIENDS OR SKANKYHOS. This is commonly written in to protect the children from the affair or immoral conduct/sleeping around wherever they are. It DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR WH. He can see the kids, he just cannot have ow spend the night. See? She must leave the home when it's bedtime. If she breaks the rule, then he is brought BACK to court on contempt charges.
*file alienation of affection lawsuit against the ow because IT IS A FACT they're having an affair and he is living with her because she lured him there. She is stealing your family monies, and now she'll have to pay up to YOU and the kids! I wish this law was on the books in every darn state.

I have TWO FRIENDS who took their x spouses back to court b/c they had girlfriends sleeping at their houses when the kids were there visiting daddy on visitation. Both won the contempt charges too. Their x husbands had to pay legal bills and also got lectured too and one got less custody as a result.
You have so much on your side Mehr! Including the state you reside in.

make the most of it and do what you can. Nobody is saying that he should not be their daddy. It is just that most states DO have some sort of way you can easily keep the kids safe from either infidelity or immoral behavior. And that goes for SEPARATED and even DIVORCED couples.

it was written in my sep and divorce papers too. In my now dh's divorce decree from his xww the same thing written in. In two of my friends in TN it is in their decrees too. All it means is that you can't sleep around in front of your kids. Affair or NO affair. You shouldn't do it b/c it is HARMFUL.

Plus as my family court judge saw it, he said that "when the child is there, you should have as your focus YOUR CHILD."

When the judge read part of the decree about the "no overnight visitors of oppoisite sex" part, my xh actually ASKED the judge how that worked. He was schooled by the judge biiig time! The judge said "It's not good for your son to see you as a negative example sleeping with somebody you're not married to or somebody that is't moral. That's not good parenting." He then went on to say that THIS IS JUST THE WAY IT IS in this state.
Here's a link to a similar scenario where the xw moved her boyfriend in with her and what the response from the family lawyer expert was:
No Overnight Visitors and Live-In Boyfriend


Many times (and in my papers)it is defined as from 8:00 pm until 8:00 am. So they have to get the heck out! No boyfriends or girlfriends in the home during those hours when the kids are with their parent.
Also prevents sneaking in/out of the home late at night or early in am too! This is usual again. Normal wording added in in many states.
Mehr:

Plan B will be a good thing. Find out (legally) what you really can do to prevent OW from being around your children.

Do those things.

Then let it rest and concentrait on you. If it works out, great. I do not think you should obsess about this (it goes against the philosophy of plan B too.) or ANY situation that you have limited control over.

You will soon learn (and I believe the crux of plan B is) the only person you can "control" is yourself.
Not your WH
Not the OW.



Hey Mehr!

Peachy and Itstough are giving you some really great strategies.

The most important is for you to change your mindset.

This is not about keeping your kids away from WH or OW.
Its about keeping your kids away from an unhealthy situation.
So you make that definition. You lay out how destructive the affair is for the kids. And you reasonable request "No affair between the hours of 8-8."
Then it becomes his CHOICE between having his kids or having his *****.

And if you can find added reasons why OW is not a healthy person for little kids to be around, ALL THE BETTER!
And you might dig up a few surprises for WH....maybe she's not "all that"...
Quote
Scotland.
... telling her over and over again that she needs to do it, when she has stated that she has spoken to more than one attorney and they say it isn't possible, isn't helping Mehr, or other who may be lurking and also can't do anything about it.

All due respects, ITA. >Ital mine<
I am so lonely! How do people do this Plan B stuff so long? I know what I want -- I want my husband back. But if he's not coming back I want to find someone to be with... ahhhhh.

I must be the worst person at being "alone."
Mehr,
It is hard to be alone, I feel it too. I have really been alone for nine months now, and it does get easier. The hardest for me is my weekends without the boys. The house is so quiet I want to scream, and I do sometimes. I have broke plan b and it makes it worse and you get more angry instead of healthy. They are not coming back right now and on whatever level we need to accept that. That is reality and a tough pill to swallow.
Hope this help, stay well.
Mehr, it is hard to stay in Plan B and to feel alone, but it does get easier, trust me. Also, breaking Plan B is worse than actually being in it. Be very careful right now because you are highly suseptible to having an affair of your own and I would hate to see you as a WW.

What you are feeling is your ENs not being met and your Taker wants out real bad. Do you have an end date for your Plan B? Also, if you do things to take care of yourself, your Taker won't come out as often. I do still think about what it would be like to date someone else but I still really want my WH to be that man(well not thw WH but the one he could be).

If your WH came knocking on your door right now and asked you to take him back, would you? If the answer to that question is that you would take him back, then I would say stay thw course and stay dark.

So what are you going to do tomorrow for YOU?
It is important to know that the situation right now is dictating WHY you are in plan B Mehr. There are very very destructive forces going on right now.

It is normal feeling overwhelmed as a mom, sad, depressed, and angry. and all at the same time.

But it is not hopeless. What I did was find new friends (moms too) and go do kid-related fun things. I took my child to the park often, we took long walks, we'd take little weekend day trips here and there, and go to museums, zoo, etc. I also became a voracious reader too during that time.

When I'd get frustrated with housework, being alone, the overwhelmed stuff, I'd take my child to a park and take a long walk.

Once I landed financially a bit better on my feet after the sep agreement, I took my child on a short vacation too.

And each night I had my bubble bath.

I'll tell you like my sweet now-gone grandmother told me when I felt like you, "Honey, this won't last forever, either he will change his tune before it's too late, or else in the near future you'll meet a truly wonderful man."

She was right. WE don't know what will happen. But you claim this, YOU will not be alone forever. You don't know what the future brings. It could bring a more beautiful tomorrow if you just have faith.
You're not the worse person at being 'alone'.
Humans want companionship. They want affection/sf/conversation/admiration/etc.

Being alone sucks. Especially in the earlier stages of plan B.

Eventually you will embrace and become friends with that feeling. If your WH comes back soonish.....you won't get that delightful experience....(gotta lol at this but it is true).

Embracing the sensation of loneliness can be spiritual. You transcend your emotional needs to see yourself from a place where you view yourself as a human being. In a way you never did before.

I suggest you have an end date in mind for your plan B (not etched in stone but to refer to in your journey) and that will help a lot.

How do you decide an end date for Plan B?

I would still take him back. I don't want to date someone new, I want a whole family for my kids and for them to see their parents in love. The idea of having stepparents for my kids makes me so sad.

Tomorrow I start college again.... that should keep me real busy and hopefully with something else to keep my focus on. I am still waiting on a court date.

Later today WH gets the kids, I offered to drop them off since I am going out with my friends... unfortunately both of our sets of parents are out of town so I will possibly see him in this transaction, but if I can manage I will walk out the front door as he walks in the side. I am going to be looking good though since I am going out with friends so if he does see me at least I won't look bad. But I will not talk to him or interact, I just have to get the kids to the same location as him this time. My goal is to stay as Plan B as I can considering the timing.
Dr. Harley suggests that if your spouse isn't back to commit by two years after plan B is implemented that you consider filing for divorce to officially end the marriage BUT he does note that many couples stay separated for the rest of their lives for various reasons.

You might set a date that you are willing to stay separated and not file for a divorce. Then, should that date come and you are not ready to do it.....only YOU can decide.

Meanwhile, your wayward might come back to rebuild or he might file or you might decide you really ARE ready to file.

Your plan B is your show. Mehr's show.
Eggsackly! Perfect reading! Mehr, YOU ARE IN CONTROL NOW. Get in the drivers' seat and drive this car!

YOU say what happens. YOU decide when to say when, but Dr. Harley says most affairs end within 2 years. My case happened same way, but he married "it" (wistress) b/c she was pregnant.

Thus, when he wanted to end the affairage with her and tried to come home to me, I didn't want anything to do with him. It was MY call and when I filed for divorce it was MY call too. I'd been "done". But Dr. Harley was totally on target with the timing of when the relationship with his skank ow would tank. Haha! Good rhyme. When the skank would tank! Sounds like an adult novel by Dr. Seuss!

Again, look good, be calm and cool and have QUIET CONFIDENCE. No fear, nothing. Just kind QUIET CONFIDENCE. Confidence even from a distance is sexy. interact as little as possible. Maybe say only 1-3 words and that is IF YOU ONLY HAVE TO.

Heck if it were me, I'd be looking like Ihad somewhere IMPORTANT to go, and be dressed up lookin' hot. Make him wonder. I'd say nothing to the wayward, but be maybe wearing a short skirt, heels, look fabulous, and walk around getting the kids in their carseats, all the while saying NOTHING and making the wayward foggy right back, making him wonder.

My male friend used to do this to his wayward wife, when their IM would be unavailable. He'd look fabulous, smell fabulous, give the ww ZERO ATTENTION, and put his kids in their carseats and then turn on some cool music and drive off. She told him after she came home, that she always wondered WHO was he going to see, and she secretly thought he was amazing looking so great and being that quiet confident guy. A very different person from the begging, pleading, and sad guy she saw earlier.

So yea, it works.
Mehr, I am sad that you are going to have some sort of contact with your WH today because I know how much damage it causes to a person in Plan B. I hope that you can come up with better ideas in the future. Also, how much communication is going through the IMs? You should even be limiting that time as well


As far as what date you should pick to end your Plan B I will tell you what I have decided for myself. My MINIMUM time in Plan B will be the 2 year mark(that is in 6 months so - see it going longer than that to be honest. I will not have any direct communication with my WH as long as his affair is on. I will move to Plan D after a certain amount of time, if my WH hasn't filed first. But even if I am D, the A is too harmful to me and my children. I won't interact with him directly to protect myself and them. That is just my take on what I am going to do. Hope it helped
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Again, look good, be calm and cool and have QUIET CONFIDENCE. No fear, nothing. Just kind QUIET CONFIDENCE. Confidence even from a distance is sexy. interact as little as possible. Maybe say only 1-3 words and that is IF YOU ONLY HAVE TO.

Heck if it were me, I'd be looking like Ihad somewhere IMPORTANT to go, and be dressed up lookin' hot. Make him wonder. I'd say nothing to the wayward, but be maybe wearing a short skirt, heels, look fabulous, and walk around getting the kids in their carseats, all the while saying NOTHING and making the wayward foggy right back, making him wonder.

That's exactly how I played it. I looked really good, I had a quiet confidence, I left. I really did go out. As I walked out the door he stopped me by saying "hey! ... if you give me a voided check I can get you money."

So when I came back I gave him one and he left. We'll see. Personally I think it was an afterthought because he felt like he needed to say something.

It was hard to see him... but I can only do the best I can do.

Tommorrow the kids are in day care for the first time in their life... and i am taking a Chemistry class... aiming to be a nurse.
Do you have an IM?
Mehr;

You know that this set your plan B back to day one, right?

Don't worry, I doubt any one has done plan B perfectly from the get go.

Re read the reasons behing plan B, make another game plan and start over (when you feel you can.)
... It will make sense to you at some point.
>> sorry <<<

Originally Posted by Scotland
Do you have an IM?

Yes I do, she and her husband live in another town. We have been using my in laws house as a drop off point, but they are on vacation this week, and my parents got back from their vacation today.

I don't feel set back to day 1.... I feel a little stronger today. I went to college class, my kids seemed to like the day care so far... I am taking care of business with the kids and with everything without him. I am starting to get that feeling that I don't "need" him and that if he comes back it will benefit him and the kids more than me personally. Of course I still love him, but I feel okay today. Maybe not tomorrow. Who knows.
Mehr,

You see how your babies do? They start by turning over, then crawling and then take those first baby steps.

That is the path to your own journey. Baby steps. Some days you will fall and even get hurt but just keep picking yourself up and keep going.

Your children will be your inspiration for your success every day. The days we can't go on for ourselves , we go on for them.

Terrific step in going back to school. I truly commend you on this.

Blessings.
My lawyer sent the response to the legal separation in the mail.... WH petitioned for divorce, and to say that I am keeping the kids from him.

I feel like I am dying... I wish I had never had 4 kids with this man.... how can he just abandon his family like this.... what a waste of 12 years.
Have you been keeping a journal of how often he actively tries to spend time with the children? If not you should start one. That sort of proof can be VERY good on your side in court.
Yes I have one.
Just today before I got the divorce papers my daughter was saying she wants a family with her daddy in it. He is making this decision for the whole family and hurting the kids and I so badly.
Mehr, it is just paper. That is all. The lawyers are the ones who work at this.

YOU pay the lawyer to do what you tell them that you want them to do.

Don't worry about what or what wh does or doesn't say or put in them. He is FOGGED OUT HON. He is not in his right mind.

Of course, he'll use the "you're not letting me see the kids" routine for a scare tactic, but that's all. in reality he has done this:

1)harmed the children emotionally by exposing them to a very very negative and immoral lifestyle, confusing the kids and making them hurt by having the affair.
2)abandonment of the family and financial abandonment too.
3)for many days you weren't even sure where this guy was.

He has TEN MILLION things going wrong for his case, and remember, you're NOT KEEPING THE KIDS FROM HIM. Nope. You're going to let your kids see him, but NOT BE ENTANGLED, EMOTIONALLY ABUSED, AND HARMED BY HIS AFFAIR. that is the difference. You are protecting the ones who have been harmed.

He can see the kids whenever he wants. From 8 pm until 8 am the next day, he cannot allow the skank over to his home.. You will not allow overnight visitors of the opposite sex when the children are in the custodial/visitation home. So they can see daddy, BUT NOT BE EXPOSED TO THIS IMMORAL AND MENTALLY ABUSIVE SITUATION. See the difference?

So don't listen to the scare tactic of a psycho wayward right now. It's like listening to a crack addict ramble on or a drunk. They simply don't make sense, but like to stir up trouble.

Your kids are hurt, confused, and they need mommy to stand strong right now. You cannot make anybody do anything in this world, but you can be a good parent, and you can DEMAND that your wh respect you and demand that you get a good separation agreement.

Hopefully that affair WILL end, as I believe it will, and others do, and of course Dr. Harley. Most DO end by the 2 year mark. And when they end (like my xwh)it ends UGLY and very very badly. We don't know which way yours will go. you do have a very very foggy wayward H who is deeply entrenched in his affair.

All you can do is stand up for your kids and for a good agreement now, and also stand up and say "no my kids will definitely see their dad, BUT NOT BE EMOTIONALLY ABUSED BY BEING VICTIMIZED BY THE AFFAIR OR OW. They see dad. They do NOT SEE DADDY'S UNHOLY AFFAIR. There is a difference!
There is no way I will be able to hold out for 2 years. We are about 6 months in, 3 months from exposure and d-day.... and he's already done all this.
Of course he responded he wants a divorce and not a legal sep.
He is still blameshifting and tantruming that you are not giving him Mehr cake.
Just plug along.
Ask your attorney how to get the most you can get and the best way to protect the kids from further damage.
How to get WH to financially support the household.
Then,come here and get our various inputs to make your legal gameplan.

Don't panic.

Marriage
Separation
Divorce

All events. You can handle anything that comes your way.

So.
Let attorney duke it out for you and you stay dark.

And extra snuggles and fun for the children!
I don't think he cares about my cake.... or me.... or the kids. I just feel hopeless.
You are wrong.

There would be no conflict if he didn't care.
He is peeved that you are being one strong woman.

The three stages of marriage
intimacy
conflict
withdrawal

Conflict means he is feeeeeeling something though he is claiming to all the world and you that he does not.

Keep that in mind as you deal with the situation and feeling hopeless is just a step in collecting yourself to deal with the mess. It is not hopeless but you can only control YOU.
Mehr, think of when one of your kids has a tantrum...

They kick an scream and hold their breath...because they want it. Once you don't feed into their holy terror they pick themselves up from the ground and "get over it".

He is trying to get a reaction from you. don't take the bait.
Originally Posted by hope3343
Mehr, think of when one of your kids has a tantrum...

They kick an scream and hold their breath...because they want it. Once you don't feed into their holy terror they pick themselves up from the ground and "get over it".

He is trying to get a reaction from you. don't take the bait.

There you go.

He does give a damn, Mehr. It's just his mindset is more akin to a toddler than an adult at the moment. Just try to remember that, and (if your kids are like mine) I'm sure your kids will give you plenty of examples to compare him to smile

Mehr,

this is a difficult stage to get through you are receiving good advice here, they are spot on with your husband's approach, he has lost control of you and he doesn't like it, he will now understand that if he doesn't change he will lose you, let him process all this. Mehr, this is a Marathon not a sprint.......you have to hang in there and let the thinking and processing happen........
Right now your job is to live a better life than you had with him........concentrate on your life and your school and the kids..........
Let him worry about his f-ed up life he has chosen for himself.........
Let him figure out how dumb he is, and how the OW isn't worth all this and all he is going to give up..........
It takes time............
jessi
Thank you guys.... maybe there is some hope.... you guys make me think it is possible he cares in some small way .... I have an appointment with a new lawyer tomorrow and I let the other one go.

He filed for "temporary relief" about visitation, its a good thing I have these logs showing that I have never kept the kids from him when he asked. He just doesn't ask all that much.
And, I will give NO reaction. But now that I know he filed this BEFORE I "saw" him on Sunday (see post about that) I know why he looked so darn baffled.... I was looking good and confident and happy.... he probably did not know I hadn't gotten the papers yet.
Mehr,

I know how hard this is. I am in almost the same position as you. I filed legal separation and my WH retaliated with D - that was almost 5 months ago. He told me that he'd let me know if he was going to file D - nope, just surprised me with it. The D process is slower than molasses. I have no agreement in place at this time and probably won't for months, at this rate.

After 5 months of all kinds of crazy making, I have only given in to the temptation once or twice to email him - once or twice too many. I hate to say it, but I think that just feeds the drama.

He doesn't pay support...crickets. I call my atty. He's late to pick up or drop off..I just put it in my journal. It all goes in the file to bring before a judge. It all hurts like hell but I funnel it into my journal.

I feel my WH and probably yours are looking for the attention. My WH is definitely the type that prefers negative attention over none. He was probably hoping for some reaction - so it was good you didn't give him one.

Keep calm. Smile. But avoid as much as possible.

You can do this! I know what it's like to miss your H but he's not your H right now...he's been body snatched. Let the OW deal with the crazy person he is.

That's scary because we absolutely need his money. The divorce can take forever and I don't care, but I need child support.
Mehr,

I end up getting the support...it just takes some effort to get it. I decided not to file temporary orders just yet but may do so if I continue to have the issue.

Be prepared, though, as your WH may play lots of games with you - to get attention, make you mad, out of his own selfishness. Whatever the reason...mine likes to use my daughter and money to get to me. Yours may use something else.

Be strong. Know your rights. And don't be afraid to get what you need from him.

I have a new lawyer, I met with him yesterday. He is going to call on Monday to get us a court date for support. He seemed to think it might be possible on a temporary basis at least to keep the other woman away from the kids, it depends on the judge. Getting child support and other support is the highest priority right now.
Originally Posted by mehr
I have a new lawyer, I met with him yesterday. He is going to call on Monday to get us a court date for support. He seemed to think it might be possible on a temporary basis at least to keep the other woman away from the kids, it depends on the judge. Getting child support and other support is the highest priority right now.

hurray hurray I am so happy to read this. It makes a HUGE difference when you have a proactive attorney who is willing to fight for you. I have no doubt he'll be able to get a temporary hearing, which is what we've said all along that you needed. A judge will order support in the interim, especially in light of the fact that your WH has all but abandoned his children. His attorney probably read him the riot act about visitation and support (if he's an ethical attorney) and you'll get some kind of financial support. As for the OW, I've seen such a clause written into temporary orders AND carried over to the final decree.

Good job for taking this positive step for you and your kiddos!
YES !
hurray
weightlifter

Great news!!

I'm calling my atty on Monday as I am tired of getting support on my WSTBXH's schedule. I was supposed to get it by today and of course, nothing. It gets later and later each month.

I've been playing nice to avoid court but I am out of patience.

Good luck with court, Mehr. Good job.
AWESOME NEWS!!! Woo hoo Mehr! YOu gota a new attorney!!! Yay!

Now remember HOW YOU KEEP the ow away from the kids is from the "no overnight visitors of opposite sex from 8 pm -8 am" clause written in. MOST judges consider this normal and a very MORAL way to deal with kids in a separation or divorce. It is to PROTECT THE KIDS from harmful actions of the parents.

Thus, without actually SAYING it, you are protecting the kids from the OW. Your wh will KNOW THAT TOO. And guess what? If he VIOLATES THAT? You file contempt charges and take him back to court and have him pay attorney fees for you.

As you will HAVE HIM PAY YOUR ATTNY FEES FOR YOU NOW since he's being and behaving as a deadbeat daddy.

GET THAT CS and also ask for SPOUSAL SUPPORT TOO as you are owed this. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO DEMAND THIS.

This is when the rubber hits the road and this will be what pulls ws incidentally, away from his fantasy life. He will see that HE CANNOT just dump off a wife and kids and he won't be able to have the kids around the wench overnight either. Thus no FAKE FAMILY VACAYS with the ow too!

You come in and drop a giant bucket of ice cold water onto the affair.

So so happy you got an attorney WHO WILL LISTEN AND DO SOMETHING for you and the kids!
His lawyer sent my lawyer a note saying I took "all this money" so we shouldn't need temporary relief. I mean. Really. What money do they think I have been buying toilet paper and paying the house payment with? Its not still sitting here!!!!

My husband..... so crazy.... In march after d-day he said "I won't take the money because that would hurt the kids".... and now he is fighting me over all of this.... claiming crazy things and escalating the situation..... WHY ????

She can have him.
Mine is doing the same thing. For six months he provided for our family. Then when he dumped me the second time for OW he just cut us off.

I have been fighting him on it for four months. Because I chose to fight he said to me in an email awhile back,

"You want me to come back to you? You are ruining my military career by fighting me on child support. You say you love me, but your actions speak otherwise. How can you be fighting me on this?"

Never trust a wayward orally - it must all be written down and notarized!!!!

Wayturds just suck!!!
He is wayward and he is ANGRY that he isn't getting his way.

Waywards are like 2 year olds throwing tantrums.

Just stick to your Plan and remember, whatever he does, don't break Plan B.

Originally Posted by Scotland
He is wayward and he is ANGRY that he isn't getting his way.

Waywards are like 2 year olds throwing tantrums.

Just stick to your Plan and remember, whatever he does, don't break Plan B.

I don't even get what his way is!!! I asked him through the IM how he is going to have the kids every other weekend (like he filed for in the temporary relief) if he only has 1 out of every 3 weekends off? He didn't respond. He does not make sense. He is INSANE and ILLOGICAL and completely stupid!!!! She can have this version of him because I don't know who this man is.....
My take from observation.

WHs are used to having wifey take care of the kids so they can work and play and date OW and still be a family man.

They are used to being adored by wifey and leading wifey in all family proclamations about family mottos.

Logic was handled by wifey in daily family matters. She did the grunt work. The tactical daily planning and implementation.

(This would be for men who are wayward....not sure what wayward womens' mindsets are).

During plan B, WHs are beside themself trying to get their balance to handle parenting and continuing the affair. It is tougher when wifey doesn't co operate with direct interaction. They can barely manage the various balls in the air without their wives.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Never trust a wayward orally -
Wayturds just suck!!!
cry
shocked
rotflmao


Do you have ANY IDEA how difficult it is for me not to take your comments and turn them into a 20 minute comedy routine?



I am showing so much restraint at the moment it's making my armpits sweat.
Mehr just checking in.

Don't be surprised or figure out their thinking. They aren't thinking just traveling through the fog.

Every day they wake up and take their "stupid pill" and just wander around going in circles saying "where am I".

Sad but true
Originally Posted by hope3343
Mehr just checking in.

Don't be surprised or figure out their thinking. They aren't thinking just traveling through the fog.

Every day they wake up and take their "stupid pill" and just wander around going in circles saying "where am I".

Sad but true

And the theory is that it wears off within 2 years for most of them.... I guess.... I see now why Jon in the book starts asking, why is he waiting? ...
Mehr - stick with me! You and I are on the same page today. Granted for some odd reason my LB is draining in Plan B.

I have to say if he files for divorce when her returns from deployment I may just throw in the towel. Not sure yet. All I know is I would really love to just beat the two of them down right now. twoxfour

Tough~
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
my LB is draining in Plan B.

Mine is too.... for me it is the money thing, the fact that he is not providing for the kids and I has me really upset even without talking to him. What kind of hateful selfish jerk....
Really, it's not your place any more to follow him around and try to inject sanity and common sense into his folly. It's up to him to figure out how he's going to have the kids and work.

Your part in this is to question the kids (gently, very gently) after they have a weekend with him working. Who took care of them? Were they supervised? Etc. And if he cancels visitation because he's working, document it down the minute, and ask for more custody and more money.

Are they around OW already? If so, first ask your lawyer if there is any way to prevent this. Some states have great laws that can work to your advantage. If not, you still have a couple of options. One is to express, through IM, that you are not ok with the kids being exposed to his adultery partner. Firmly but politely say that you expect him to keep them away from her. Some waynerds will actually give in to this request even when they are not legally obligated to do so. And lastly, if he's in-your-face they're going to be around OW and you can't stop me, have your IM notify him that you expect the OW's name, address, phone #, and social security # so you can run a criminal background check on her prior to her being around your children.

You have lots of strong options in this. Reminding him that he might have underestimated his use of time isn't one of them. wink
I have asked him through IM not to have them around her but he refuses to listen. So far I haven't had luck preventing it legally but still working on that.

The last two days he took the kids to the lair. Yesterday she apparently gave my daughter a bath with her daughter and I can see she painted my daughter's toenails and fingernails. She is playing mommy with my kids. I'm sure he loves that. Its so infuriating.
Then through your attorney, or if not then through IM, request her full info for a criminal background check.

If you have even part of her info, like her first and last name, you can at least run her through the Megan's Law website and make sure she's not a convicted sex offender. (She's probably not, but find out everything you can. She wouldn't be the first OW to have some kind of criminal record, if she did, and the more you know the better armed you can be.)

IM: WH,
Although Miss OW does not appear on the list of local sex offenders, it is important to make sure she does not pose any other kind of physical risk to the children. Please provide her full information as soon as possible, so a full criminal background check can be run.
Thank you,
IM


If he actually sends the information, I will be surprised. The reason it's important to ask, is that it shows you are very concerned for the children's welfare, especially when it comes to throwing them around a complete stranger of already-proven immoral character. She is not a part of the family, but a robber and destroyer. She could be an axe murderer for all he knew or cared when he brought her around the children, without stopping to question her history or ensure their safety. (She's probably not actually an axe murderer, either.)

Being vigilant enough about your children to question the history of un-vetted strangers who are allowed to care for them (AND GIVE THEM BATHS - YUCK!!!!) demonstrates the level of concern a good parent should have for their well-being.

Having OW mad about being assessed as a potential criminal is only a happy side bonus. The fact is, children are at greater risk of abuse from their parents' girlfriends/boyfriends than almost anyone else on the planet.

Your children are blessed to have a good, vigilant mom like yourself.
Sorry to T/J a little Mehr.

Neak - I have a couple questions. I love this approach to other to the other woman. I plan to also do the same thing with my WH's POSOW.

Where I struggle is because it is such a huge love bank withdrawal. I posted on another thread how the value systems of WH and I are completely different now. Both Mehr and I stand for moral character and our WH's stand for criminal behavior.

I am struggling with the logic because I am in Plan B to save my marriage. Each time I stand up for moral character to my WH I feel like I am draining all love out of him. Almost to the point of putting hate into him.

Mehr and I both are on the same page with this. My brain says do not compromise strong moral boundaries, but my heart feels like I am bleeding him dry of love.

Can you shed any more light on the logic of this?

Thanks Tough~
Bravo to Neak for a practical insight.

When our children are at school we know that all teachers and workers have criminal checks

Even when I volunteered at my church I had to have a criminal check.

But here is this OW who you know nothing about giving your child a bath?

I am sure it is innocent and her way of playing Mommy Dearest but if you don't let your children around strangers and your WH is obviously not thinking straight, it would be a reasonable request.

If he balks and thinks you are being unreasonable (jealous) then it makes him look bad especially if something turns up.

Don't talk to him, stick with your IM, when you send something about the kids through the IM, always use "We statements". eg: "We both want is best for our children"; "We need to protect our children" "our children are having issues". When you make I statements it puts WH into a challenge. Makes sense?

Even though you are apart give an "as if" type of responses that you are both on an united front which will also upset OW.

Put the shoe on the other foot, tell WH if I was seeing someone would you feel comfortable with him giving your children a bath.

Blessings.
First of all nothing the ow does IS innocent. She is behaving inappropriately around your child "giving her a bath" as that is an intimate act only for parents or for a child old enough to do alone.

I would have the attny send a flaming letter out to not do that, and to NOT HAVE THE KIDS IN A SITUATION WHERE THERE IS ADULTERY being slammed in their faces. I would have the attny send a cease and desist letter that there should be "no overnight visits of the opposite sex while the child is in the house' paving the way for the COURTS to allow this language in the sep documents.

You are still sending them over and there needs to be a strong show of force here by you and the new attorney that THIS BEHAVIOR IS NOT TO BE TOLERATED.

Question: Can you finally get the attny to have somebody do a criminal background check on ow? This really needs to be done. You need to get her in a bad bad light.

Having her bathe your child is one thing.

I had my attny do this very thing to my xwh's ow. he wrote a scathing letter to her that she is not to touch my child when naked and that this would be addressed in court. My xwh's ow tried giving my male child a bath and I was able to shut that down in court 100%. The judge said it was improper too!

You gotta stand up Mehr. Do not take this. The waywards will creep their agenda forward each day by mere inches. They will push boundaries a little more..and a little more...each day and hope that in time, you will relax YOUR GOOD BOUNDARIES and let them have their sinful lifestyle and actions become THE NORM. That's their goal, for it to become THE NORM.

It is NOT NORMAL. Never has been. Only with your approval can it become the norm. So never approve. I didn't.

I used each day to fight AGAINST the affair and the affairage for the sake of my child, and slowly took everything back until the point where I obtained full custody.

Also, get that attny to sue the ow for alienation of affection. Btw, you can use her getting to your kids, as proof she is out to destroy the family and marriage. Esp if she has spent the night with your H in front of the kids. Huge point and it should be an easy legal win. You SHUT HER DOWN NOW.

You are NOT POWERLESS. You have believe it or not, the law on your side, God on your side, and the good ideas and help from the people here on your side and friends and famiy. So stand tall AND GET WORKING and shut this b*tch down NOW. Slap her down legally.
You need to have the mindset Mehr that if the marriage ends, the fight to make sure your kids is still top priority.

Right now you're in plan B and your wh is in an entrenched affair and he may or may not come back. The best chance of that happening is to make as much trouble for the affair.

having the ow give your kids a bath when they'er naked is a gimme to your lawyer. Your lawyer should USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY to paint ow in a negative light. It's simply inappropriate and skeezy behavior for her to do that and she needs a cease and desist letter that she is not to do that. And that "any visitor of the opposite sex is prohibited overnight when the kids are in the home of the non custodial parent for visitation".

that is how how begin to shut the ow down. You also paint her as a disturbed woman seeing your children naked too. You don't know who she is, and your H is allowing a stranger to be in a room with your child naked alone with her and THAT IS NOT GOOD PARENTING. Most judges would side with that too. All in how your attorney paints it.

But her doing this with your kids (bath thing) and the painting of toenails, and spending the night with your kids PRETENDING TO BE MOMMY is an ace in the hole for the whole ALIENATION OF AFFECTION LAWSUIT. it is something you use for your advancement of that and you would WIN HANDS DOWN.

That is another way to shut down the ow.

I know one person who used to be on MB who GOT THAT RULING and won that lawsuit (alienation of affection) and it was easily proved!
The kids tell me that recently, OW and WH have moved into a HOUSE!!!! This is really bad for my court case to get alimony from him... if he has committed to a certain amount of housing costs, that is $$ I can't get out of him. I may not be able to stay in this house. All I know is-- I still don't have a court date yet!!!! And this is the second lawyer. I feel like hyperventilating. My anxiety is through the roof.

They are over there playing house and she's playing wife and mother. I feel ill. I'd say its going to be a long time before he even considers having any regrets, he seems to be having a marvelous time.... ROBBING HIS OWN KIDS....

I hate that I always seem to learn this stuff on a Saturday and then have to wait for Monday to call the lawyer.
Originally Posted by mehr
I hate that I always seem to learn this stuff on a Saturday and then have to wait for Monday to call the lawyer.

Think of it this way... it gives you a few days to get yourself together and then to present a well thought out plan of attack first thing Monday morning.

I'm so sorry this happening.
Originally Posted by mehr
Yesterday she apparently gave my daughter a bath with her daughter and I can see she painted my daughter's toenails and fingernails. She is playing mommy with my kids. I'm sure he loves that. Its so infuriating.
Oh no she di'int!

Mehr! This is so wrong. Even if she had your WH's permission to do so, it is still wrong. In fact, if anything sexual had happened to your daughter while OW was bathing her, the Courts would say that WH is also guilty for allowing it to happen! How many stories have you read on the news where BOTH parents were charged with child abuse even though only one of them did the deed. The parent who turned their head is just as guilty. Same thing here. Even though nothing sexual happened (this time) WH was still exposing your daughter to possible danger. OW may be harmless (as harmless as an OW can be) but you don't know that.

Your attorney needs to run with this one. Seriously.

Take this time to make your plan.

Send an email to attorney or have it written out concisely (saves time and money). Even if your state court will not care have your attorney send a letter to cease and desist. Make the attorney use we statements (As we want what is best for our children).

You are doing well even though you don't think so. Stay strong and continue to be a shining example for your children.

Blssings
Originally Posted by hope3343
Take this time to make your plan.

Send an email to attorney or have it written out concisely (saves time and money). Even if your state court will not care have your attorney send a letter to cease and desist. Make the attorney use we statements (As we want what is best for our children).

You are doing well even though you don't think so. Stay strong and continue to be a shining example for your children.

Blssings

Great advice Hope. Mehr, puhleaze listen to this.
Get and go after them mehr.

One other thing, STOP THINKING YOU ARE POWERLESS and that there is some special magic your wh has.

ALSO YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE WH LIVES. How normal is that? How normal is it that you send your kids off to stay for a weekend with a man shacking up with a strange woman and you don't know where this house is???? THAT MUST STOP TOO.

Pull your head out of the sand sweetie. WHO CARES IF HE HAS A MORTGAGE, THAT DOES NOT STOP THE FACT HE HAS TO PAY CS AND HE HAS TO DO IT NOW. That mortgage is new. Who cares. YOUR KIDS LIVE WITH YOU and he must pay up. Who cares what he SPENDS, his CS is based on what he ACTUALLY EARNS. In fact, if he marries ow, his income would increase if she works, and you should then ask for MORE CS.

You get AGGRESSIVE. Seriously. You got this crazy wh living WHO KNOWS WHERE with an aggressive and vile OW who has TOUCHED THE NAKED BODIES OF YOUR KIDS, and they are trying to dictate how it's gonna be to you.

Time to pull up big girl panties AND GO AFTER THEM. Legally hunt them down like targets right now, for it's the wayward you're after and the ow, not your H. He's NOT your husband right now, so understand that.

One day if he ever pulls his head outta his butt, he will thank you for that!

Again:
1)GO AFTER FULL CUSTODY. Have the lawyer send the letter (insert lots of "we" language as the other poster wisely suggested) and saY that NO OVERNIGHT VISITORS OF OPPOSITE SEX IN HOUSEHOLD FROM 8 PM TO 8 AM WHEN CHILDREN ARE ON VISITATION and also that there should be NO BATHING OR TOUCHING OF THE CHILDREN BY THE OTHER WOMAN, who is NOT A FAMILY MEMBER.

Also in the letter, you and attny demand THAT YOU BE TOLD OF THE EXACT ADDRESS OF THE OW'S HOME AND WHERE WH IS RESIDING. This will not fly in the court. And you as a good mother CANNOT ALLOW TO SEND YOUR KIDS TO A PLACE YOU DO NOT KNOW IS SAFE, OR WHERE IT IS IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY. Again pull your head outta the sand for that.

2)get the lawyer to have ow investigated and it might reveal a huge reason why the mystery surrounding WHY YOUR WH WON'T REVEAL WHO SHE IS OR WHERE SHE LIVES. That crap has to stop.

3)PURSUE NOW THE ALIENATION OF AFFECTION LAWSUIT. She is touching your kids, bathing them, trying to play mommy and SHE is the reason why your wh left home. SLAP HER DOWN with that and TAKE HER $. That will be a good life lesson to the wench. It might help her get out of her fog. Help the skank out, sue her!
I will call him on Monday.....

I just got a letter in the mail today saying that we have a court date set for August 11th-- legal separation and temporary support.
Hey Mehr,

I was thinking about something today. I know raising these four babies is absolutely exhausting. I admit I struggle daily, and I cannot even imagine what will happen to my WH when he has them as a single dad. I know for him his reality is going to be completely warped, and I know POSOW will not make it.

I was thinking about your WH. I wouldn't doubt he is feeling overwhelmed by four kids, job, responsibilities, etc. Part of me wonders if he snapped. I know you say she has her own three kids, so there are seven total. Well Mehr this has been happening for only three months now. Barely any time to really get the full picture. I say that because I am now single mom with four babies for almost eleven months now.

I am absolutely exhausted.

Get yourself healthy. Show you WH (if you still want him) that you can kick butt as a single mom, college student, etc.

This POSOW will not last. I know for myself as a very strong mom and amazing single mom; I can barely get it today.

Their affair will die sooner rather than later. He hasn't begun to see the crap on the wall with her yet. Soon he will. A woman cannot manage seven kids for long. Her true colors will show through and she will fail miserably trying to raise both.

You have the upper hand because you are an awesome single mom. Let him see that, and don't let them rain on your parade.

She is double bathing them already because she cannot manage the time, and is struggling. I double bath because of it. It makes my life easier. I am up at 0600 and I head to bed at 2100 with craziness all day.

It takes a special woman to handle these small babies. That POSOW doesn't have it.

Give it time and you will see it all come crashing down.

Tough~
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
I was thinking about your WH. I wouldn't doubt he is feeling overwhelmed by four kids, job, responsibilities, etc. Part of me wonders if he snapped.

I've thought of this.... he probably did. What's really bad is I have felt so tired and stressed out since #4's birth, I needed his support and received none.... neither of us had anything to give each other.... enter sleasy other woman.

I think God wants me to wait. I think stepparents are not ideal and being in a second marriage brings stress as well. With him committing to a house (I assume, I don't know if he signed the lease or just her) I'm thinking this means its going to be a long haul wait to even see if they make it or not.

So sad, so stressed...
The key is you don't want to make unnecessary Love Bank withdrawals. Frankly, a BS's ability to breathe is a $LB withdrawal, yet I still highly recommend breathing anyway.

What you want to avoid (no matter how justified) are things like angry outbursts, breaking Plan B of course if you're in it, name-calling of either WH or OW...anything that you do that wouldn't be classy and Christlike.

Some withdrawals are unavoidable. Expecting a WS to pay CS may withdraw love units, but there's nothing that can or should be done about that. Fighting aggressively for child safety or custody, ditto.

One example, after I had put up with weeks of all 3 of our children crying themselves to sleep EVERY NIGHT because their daddy wasn't home, and they were used to him being there, and no matter how hard I tried to be upbeat and cheerful I couldn't console them, I finally told AJ what they were going through.

He was furious. He blew up at me. He accused me of using the children against him, and said that SHE had predicted that eventually I would get desperate enough to do just that in order to try and hold on to him.

Should I have failed to tell him important facts about the reality of his own life? Absolutely not. In fact there were a whole bunch of things I should have told him, in hindsight. smile One hilarious thing is even if the kids had ever been exposed to her, I wouldn't have had to ask for a background check. AJ had already run one on her, since he was working as a PI at the time. rotflmao

So avoid the withdrawals you can, and combine fearlessness and tactfulness with the ones that must be done. Do it as nicely as possible, while still being blunt enough to be understood.

At whatever point he has his head inversion, he will thank you for being strong when he was weak.
Originally Posted by Neak
The key is you don't want to make unnecessary Love Bank withdrawals. Frankly, a BS's ability to breathe is a $LB withdrawal, yet I still highly recommend breathing anyway.

What you want to avoid (no matter how justified) are things like angry outbursts, breaking Plan B of course if you're in it, name-calling of either WH or OW...anything that you do that wouldn't be classy and Christlike.

Some withdrawals are unavoidable. Expecting a WS to pay CS may withdraw love units, but there's nothing that can or should be done about that. Fighting aggressively for child safety or custody, ditto.

One example, after I had put up with weeks of all 3 of our children crying themselves to sleep EVERY NIGHT because their daddy wasn't home, and they were used to him being there, and no matter how hard I tried to be upbeat and cheerful I couldn't console them, I finally told AJ what they were going through.

He was furious. He blew up at me. He accused me of using the children against him, and said that SHE had predicted that eventually I would get desperate enough to do just that in order to try and hold on to him.

Should I have failed to tell him important facts about the reality of his own life? Absolutely not. In fact there were a whole bunch of things I should have told him, in hindsight. smile One hilarious thing is even if the kids had ever been exposed to her, I wouldn't have had to ask for a background check. AJ had already run one on her, since he was working as a PI at the time. rotflmao

So avoid the withdrawals you can, and combine fearlessness and tactfulness with the ones that must be done. Do it as nicely as possible, while still being blunt enough to be understood.

At whatever point he has his head inversion, he will thank you for being strong when he was weak.

Oh good, I AM doing this. I am trying to find a way to keep the kids away from her. I do send messages telling him that I am NOT okay with the kids bathing with non family members because it is not safe, and when I figured out that they had moved today, I asked my IM to tell him I need his address so I know where the kids will be. If I don't get that address, I won't be letting him have the kids again unless the lawyer says that it would really hurt me. I need that address. I can't just not know where my kids are. I don't even know what town they live in now.

I haven't yet found a way to keep the kids from her, BUT, I do NOT think I am putting my head in the sand or being a pushover. I am being as strong as I can, but given that he's filed that I am keeping the kids from him, I am super glad I wasn't any more aggressive than I was about it because I have documented all of it and I did not keep the kids from him even while stating how this is affecting the kids.

He doesn't liek hearing how it is affecting the kids either. I've told his dad too so his dad could talk to him, an his dad said he won't call him back. Of course not. But he needs to hear it. Our 4 year old is having the hardest time.
Still, get it into the court documents that your children don't get nekkid with strange people. Or strangers. It needs to be in black and white, even if you live in a state that won't keep OW from overnights.

I just want to really encourage you here, both to carry on being strong with anything regarding the children, and with holding onto hope. Your M still has a chance, and only time will tell how it will turn out. It just isn't possible to predict at this point.

Don't dwell on it, or waste time speculating, since you're in Plan B, but don't give up on it, either.
Originally Posted by Neak
I just want to really encourage you here, both to carry on being strong with anything regarding the children, and with holding onto hope. Your M still has a chance, and only time will tell how it will turn out. It just isn't possible to predict at this point.

Don't dwell on it, or waste time speculating, since you're in Plan B, but don't give up on it, either.

Thank you for saying this. I really need to know that its too early to know and that there might be hope.

This is all still surreal to me. You are right that I need to avoid dwelling on it... I really need more brain food... I hope it gets easier not to dwell on it soon, I find it takes too much of my brain power still, everyday, wondering and worrying and praying for him. The praying can stay. I just pray every time it comes to mind right now which is way too stinking much. Its no wonder my anxiety is so high.
The last couple days have been better for me, maybe the antidepressant is starting to work. Its been about 3 weeks.

Our marriage was never perfect, but I didn't consider just leaving him because our kids deserve better than a broken family. I remember asking him though to work on some things and he would say "its not that bad"... he wasn't much for really connecting and improving things, but I am always interested in improving things. So I am starting to look back and see, well, if he doesn't come back... maybe I can find someone who is a little more interested in the relationship... or maybe if WH comes back, he will finally be interested. There were things WH did that were not right, he was not the perfect husband. I wasn't the perfect wife though, either. I just was COMMITTED to our marriage for both faith reasons and because of our children.

I am discouraged because I called my lawyer yesterday (Monday) at noon and its been 24 hours and I haven't gotten a call back yet. WH has already sent a message to IM asking when he can get the kids on Saturday and Sunday, but I don't want to respond until I hear from my lawyer...

So I got ahold of the lawyer today, and he said that the courts won't care about the bathing issue, but that it is entirely reasonable to refuse him visitation until he gives me the address where he is taking the kids. So I told WH that he couldn't take the kids there until I had the address and he finally gave up the address... it is a few blocks from one of my good friends. Now I know why he didn't want to give it up.

I HATE this powerless feeling, and everything he is doing with the kids (taking them to his rutting lair) and the fact that he isn't financially supporting us at all has Plan B draining my lovebank instead of freezing it. I feel quite a bit of animosity towards my husband.

The other woman wants to be me. She was pressuring him to get a house with her way back in March. I'm sure he got a house and filed for divorce just to prove to her his "committment."

I hate them both right now.
Originally Posted by mehr
I hate them both right now.

Me too.
Mehr --

Your lawyer is a [censored]. Your kids NAKED with a STRANGER is a BIG BIG deal.
I do not agree with your attorney.

Your attorney could at least send a letter independently requesting "in the best interest of the children right now" that your WH cease bringing the children around the OW. Mention the words - stress, confusion, poor sleeping habits etc.

Include that you want to take the children to therapy (which I am sure they do need being exposed to this) and want your WH to pay for all counseling costs. Even though legally it is not worth the weight of the paper it might make both of them think twice about what they are doing.

You are legally M and your children should not be exposed to this situation. It is confusing to the children that their Dad moves out and a strange women is there. This is not how a responsible father would introduce a new woman into his children's lives.


blessings.
This is my SECOND attorney..... maybe my state or area just stinks when it comes to cheating fools.
I do think that having IM mention the kids need to see a counselor and he will be billed for the cost involved is a good idea.

Start inquiring around for a good recommendation, the pediatrician should have a list and input.
Mehr,

Find a counseling service with sliding scale payments for children. We have 2 or 3 here that are Christian based. Have a counselor talk to the children and the impact this is having on them. Get a recommendation from the counselor and give to your attorney and he can sent it out to your WH. You don't have to go through court to get this approved.

When I was going through the D and "not cooperating" XH attorney would send letters threatening me with compliance blah blah blah. It was just a show and had no value in court but more of to get me to "play nice".

Since you do not know anything about this woman tell your attorney that you want a "criminal check" on her since she is bathing your children.


Good luck.

August 11th is the court date for legal separation and Support.... I have to make it until then.

This is the end of another two days where my husband had the kids and the other woman and they all had fun together. These are family times... it shoudl be mommy, daddy and the kids. Not "other woman" and my family. I am being replaced.

Last night I took the kids to fireworks with my parents. My little girl lay there on the grass and said she saw a star and she must wish on the star! then I heard her wish "I wish I wish daddy would come home"

Oh baby girl... me too...
((((mehr))))
Hang in there girl...You will make it!

(((mehr))) (((kids)))
Originally Posted by mehr
Last night I took the kids to fireworks with my parents. My little girl lay there on the grass and said she saw a star and she must wish on the star! then I heard her wish "I wish I wish daddy would come home"

Oh baby girl... me too...

And this is the effect of D on children. No matter how you think of the "fun" they are having, your kids are bright and know that it is the Mommy (you) who belongs in the picture. My heart was breaking reading that.

At the beginning of our seperation my D17 would ask her father to go to church and he did a few times then refused (I wonder why). There was a sermon about adultery and being a father to your children and my DD says "this is Daddy and he is not here listening".

No the kids are not "fine" and the impact on them is profound.

Blessings
Stay strong.

HOW are you pursuing hurting the affair? Please please also file charges against ow on alienation of affection. YOU must put pressure on the affair!

And please please make your attny follow up on ow background. something is fishy if for over a few months your kids went to see daddy at mystery woman posow's house. Something aint' right AND you let her bathe your kids. That should NEVER BE TOLERATED.

Has your attny ever heard of something called a molester? They can be the same sex. It is UNHEARD of having a stranger bathe children and that would be clearly wrong in many courts of law even after divorce, without the custodial parent being in the room.
No words of advice other than to say hang in there.
Originally Posted by hope3343
Originally Posted by mehr
Last night I took the kids to fireworks with my parents. My little girl lay there on the grass and said she saw a star and she must wish on the star! then I heard her wish "I wish I wish daddy would come home"

Oh baby girl... me too...

And this is the effect of D on children. No matter how you think of the "fun" they are having, your kids are bright and know that it is the Mommy (you) who belongs in the picture. My heart was breaking reading that.

At the beginning of our seperation my D17 would ask her father to go to church and he did a few times then refused (I wonder why). There was a sermon about adultery and being a father to your children and my DD says "this is Daddy and he is not here listening".

No the kids are not "fine" and the impact on them is profound.

Blessings

No the kids are hurting badly, and I feel powerless to protect them because there appears to be no legal channels to stop them from being exposed to the affair. All I can do is pray. I was just rocking my little girl and singing to her and she decided to talk about daddy and OW. She said that she doesn't want him to marry OW. She said she heard daddy tell OW something about getting married.

I hope I can drag out this divorce long enough for him to have time to think. He still hasn't KNOWN her for a year.... let alone "dated/cheated" with her...

I wonder how long I can drag it out.
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Stay strong.

HOW are you pursuing hurting the affair? Please please also file charges against ow on alienation of affection. YOU must put pressure on the affair!

And please please make your attny follow up on ow background. something is fishy if for over a few months your kids went to see daddy at mystery woman posow's house. Something aint' right AND you let her bathe your kids. That should NEVER BE TOLERATED.

Has your attny ever heard of something called a molester? They can be the same sex. It is UNHEARD of having a stranger bathe children and that would be clearly wrong in many courts of law even after divorce, without the custodial parent being in the room.

The lawyer said that its undoubtedly upsetting to me but that there is nothing I can do about the bathing right now and that it will make me look bad to make a big deal over "small things."

I have no money to file an alienation of affection suit right now. I am trying to figure out how I am going to pay the mortgage twice before even having a court date.

She didn't have a house, she had an apartment. My husband is either paying for the house, or went 1/2 with her to get it. It is a rental.
My daughter also said that daddy was talking about getting a bigger house with OW.

I know, Plan B...

But this guy is crazy. How, on half of his income, does he expect to qualify for another house? Even with their income together, I'm not seeing it...

I can see that my plan to try to keep the house until I can get through school is going to be fought. But if I don't stay here, I literally have no where to go. I was looking at 2 bedroom apartments and they are more money per month than the house payment to stay here.
I can't help but think this... it appears that he is really having a good time with her to be talking marriage and in front of the kids.... I wish their relationship would get rocky or something.
Mehr,

Just keep delaying the process in the courts, let the affair fall apart on it's own, real life, kids have a way of breaking down the romantic fantasy.
In the meantime try not to give him a lot of thought....Plan B is a good place for you to heal and figure out what your life will be.........
Just concentrate on school and those babies of yours......
hugs
jessi
You're right. It IS getting easier, slowly.... but it is. Less of my brain % is spent thinking about it.
Mehr,

filing the lawsuit for alienation of affection should be something your attny would LOVE to do b/c of the guaranteed win and recovery of legal bills and $.

You could even offer your attny up front a certain percentage of your monetary win, because YOUR CASE IS 100%. When you don't have lots of pocket money, an attny can in many cases be persuaded to represent you if they see a sizeable amount of $ to recover. Esp since this skankho is wanting to even buy a LARGER home. She's got $ somewhere. GO AFTER IT. For your babies and to destroy the affair (and her reputation a little more too).

And you do not know a thing about this woman. Who is she Mehr? WHAT DOES SHE DO for a living? Does she work? Does she have a criminal record? I find it literally hard to believe that an attorney who works with family law, esp in a fault state and a state with on its' books the alienation of affection laws, would NOT BE OUTRAGED that this unknown mystery ho, is seeing your kids naked and touching them.

Are you going to continue to say why you can't do this? Or are you going to TELL your attorney they represent YOU and that YOU want to protect your kids from this unknown enemy of your children and family and marriage?

Yup, the lawyer is YOUR employee. Just like politicians, sometimes they forget that.
Listen, I don't know where you guys heard its easy to win an alienation of affection or that there is money of it, that is not what I was told. I literally was trying to figure out how to pay my house payment this month and thinking who I should ask for a loan. I am not going to file an alienation of affection suit if my lawyer doesn't recommend it.

Its up to prayer now.
By the way it looks like I will get to talk to the Harley's themselves for advice.... hopefully that helps!
Love them - let me know when you are on so I can listen!
I am tempted to write the other woman on facebook.... tell me why I shouldn't.... sigh.... I feel like I want to do something.... you know?
Originally Posted by mehr
I am tempted to write the other woman on facebook.... tell me why I shouldn't.... sigh.... I feel like I want to do something.... you know?

You shouldn't because you are BETTER than that.

You shouldn't because it would do YOU NO GOOD.

You shouldn't because you are in PLAN B.

Do you look at OW's FB page? DO you look at WH's FB page? Do you snoop on them at all? When was the last time you heard something about either of them?

My husband does not use facebook. Her wall is private. What I hear about them comes through the kids.
Have you read my thread? If you have, have you seen the part about the "Daddy's in a pickle jar?" I think it might be time for you to have one of your own.

What hobbies have you decided to take up again? What do you do for MOMMY time? You need to do something. I know it is hard. You need to do something.

What are drop offs like when your WH has the kids? How does that work out?
Originally Posted by mehr
Listen, I don't know where you guys heard its easy to win an alienation of affection or that there is money of it, that is not what I was told. I literally was trying to figure out how to pay my house payment this month and thinking who I should ask for a loan. I am not going to file an alienation of affection suit if my lawyer doesn't recommend it.

Its up to prayer now.

Mehr,

Not all attorneys are created equal. Some barely got by in law school and some excelled. The same is true when they start a law practice..... some barely get by and some excell.

I recommend that if you live in a fault state that you ask your attorney to pursue a AOA suit. He may look at you funny or may jump on it, but the reaction you get bac from hime will tell you a great deal about his intentions in this case. If he is an attorney that is just interested in mediating through the divorce process, he will look at you funny when you suggest an AOA suit. If he is looking out for your interests and is an attorney that loves to win, he will jump on it with enthusiasm.

Again, not all attorneys are created equal!

If your hope is still to delay the divorce and help facilitate an end to the affair, then you need to be willing to take extraordinary steps legally and apply pressure to the affair by any means possible, otherwise you will see a mediated end to your marriage. This may even require a need to file a bankruptcy prior to the divorce becoming final as another delay tactic.

You must be willing to employ "The Art Of War" as a mindset along with prayer. You are afterall in a battle for your family and it is a battle for their hearts and souls too.

You must take the lead, even with attorney's.... They sometimes forget a family is at stake here and are willing to just mediate it all away. frown

I wish you well!



Originally Posted by mehr
I am tempted to write the other woman on facebook.... tell me why I shouldn't.... sigh.... I feel like I want to do something.... you know?


You shouldn't cause at this juncture it would fuel their relationship. It would be them against you even more. You would be shooting yourself in the foot. You don't need THAT.
She knows lots of things that you want to tell her already anyway (that she is blanking another woman's H, that your kids are now in a fractured family, that your H isn't really a catch.....she knows that deep inside somewhere).

Protect yourself legally, be above reproach as a woman and step out of the way of the mess your WH is in. Have nothing to do with it or OW.

I do think that your H is the issue here. He has a lot of stuff to work out inside him.
Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
Originally Posted by mehr
Listen, I don't know where you guys heard its easy to win an alienation of affection or that there is money of it, that is not what I was told. I literally was trying to figure out how to pay my house payment this month and thinking who I should ask for a loan. I am not going to file an alienation of affection suit if my lawyer doesn't recommend it.

Its up to prayer now.

Mehr,

Not all attorneys are created equal. Some barely got by in law school and some excelled. The same is true when they start a law practice..... some barely get by and some excell.

I recommend that if you live in a fault state that you ask your attorney to pursue a AOA suit. He may look at you funny or may jump on it, but the reaction you get bac from hime will tell you a great deal about his intentions in this case. If he is an attorney that is just interested in mediating through the divorce process, he will look at you funny when you suggest an AOA suit. If he is looking out for your interests and is an attorney that loves to win, he will jump on it with enthusiasm.

Again, not all attorneys are created equal!

If your hope is still to delay the divorce and help facilitate an end to the affair, then you need to be willing to take extraordinary steps legally and apply pressure to the affair by any means possible, otherwise you will see a mediated end to your marriage. This may even require a need to file a bankruptcy prior to the divorce becoming final as another delay tactic.

You must be willing to employ "The Art Of War" as a mindset along with prayer. You are afterall in a battle for your family and it is a battle for their hearts and souls too.

You must take the lead, even with attorney's.... They sometimes forget a family is at stake here and are willing to just mediate it all away. frown

I wish you well!

In an AOA suit you have to prove that the breakup really was the new person and that things were great before. I can say that 2010 was a rough year for us, I agree with readin gthat its mainly him... I know that sounds horrible... but here I was struggling along trying to keep up with 4 kids, and what he mainly did was lay in bed until it was time to go to work (he worked evenings) complaining he is tired despite having slept all night while I took care of the baby and then sleeping most of the morning since he worked the evening, and of course, he would complain there wasn't enough sex, we were both exhausted, it was a HARD year.

And of course now that we are getting to where we could all get more sleep and sex and such, he is gone.

I really don't think I could win an alienation of affection suit.

My main way that I can apply pressure to the affair right now is through MONEY.... his dad said the other day that my husband said he doesn't have any money right now so he cant give us any (my in laws are asking him for $$ I didn't ask them to, but they are)...

If he thinks he doesn't have money NOW....

I am praying hard for justice on August 11th at the court date for support. That will affect things greatly. The kids and I need the money, and the more I get from him the less he has for the affair.

I hae no idea what happens with divorces. Can any of you tell me? I am supposed to respond by tomorrow, I assume the lawyer is taking care of that. I don't know how you respond? I assume you don't just say "no thanks" ? wink But.... is there a way I can drag out the divorce to take as long as possible?

I know that my money issues are ugly. However, we are not near bankruptcy. We are very old fashioned with money and have no debt except for the house, and one student loan (his). To declare bankruptcy we would have to not pay the bills for a while. It isn't at that point now... and I hope it doesn't get there.

Debt is evil and I always avoid it.

By the way this is my second lawyer because I didnt think the first one wanted to help me.
Originally Posted by reading
Originally Posted by mehr
I am tempted to write the other woman on facebook.... tell me why I shouldn't.... sigh.... I feel like I want to do something.... you know?


You shouldn't cause at this juncture it would fuel their relationship. It would be them against you even more.

Thank you I needed to hear this.
Mehr,

I don't remember if you're in the States or Canada, but if you are in the states, please look into the "displaced homemaker" program for various types of assistance through that program. Esp since you have no financial support at this time and you are waiting on a CS hearing. A few years ago, there was $$$ for gas vouchers and other necessities for displaced homemakers. I'm not sure what's available in the current economic crisis, but please consider speaking to someone (knowledgeable) in financial aid at your school or you can go online and find out what your state offers.

I understand your wanting to follow the atty's advice with AoA. In so many states and provinces, there is no fault for A. The family and financials just get divided in half and everyone is expected to move forward as if nothing happened. My state is like that.

Keep on doing that dark plan b. That's the best thing you can do right now.

An OW should get only two pieces of communication: a copy of the PBL, and an original of the NC letter. Anything else is a waste of time.

Don't wrestle with a pig. You get muddy, and it makes the pig happy.

(Apologies to pigs.)
Originally Posted by mehr
I really don't think I could win an alienation of affection suit.

With all due respect to you, I think you're missing the point on this.

Your attorney can pursue this AOA regardless of whether you can win or not. Your attorney needs to know that your goal is to bring an end to the affair and to restore your M. He may jump on it easily and actually enjoy filing it. The costs to you may be minimal or may be nothing at all, but you won't know unless you ask, will you smile

The AOA will cause the OW to need to lawer up and will cost her a great deal of money just to seek counsel..... This will COST her.... Finally something that will get in HER back pocket and cause stress in her schedule....

The best part is after she lawers up and spends some time and money, you can always drop the case prior to depositions if your attorney thinks it's a waste of time at that point. But just filing is VERY inexpensive.... Ain't that beautiful!!!

It's all about "The Art Of War" smile
AND she will know that she has to get up on the stand, swear to testify to tell the truth, and then be GRILLED about her hoe-ness.
So a couple weeks ago, WH deposited a trite amount into my account. Then today he deposited the same amount. It appears that is how much he thinks he will be paying me. It is ridiculously low!!! I pray he is wrong. I can't wait for that court date and I pray for justice.... I can't believe all that he is putting us through.
Every time I start thinking about the money in particular, I start really hating him. I have no way to care for everyone, there is no job I can get that would offset the cost of childcare, and he seems to think he will be giving me just this small amount. I can see what he's calculating from, it would be the 40% child support based on the smallest amount he makes, when he gets no overtime. But he makes WELL OVER that on a regular basis because he gets overtime, he gets holidays, he told me originally he would never take the money because it would hurt the kids and now he is putting me in this position where I can't care for anyone frown

I am hoping to get alimony AND child support, and it'd be even nicer if he would pay half of my child care costs.
I just got off the phone with my lawyer. She said i will most likely get backdated child support to when I filed, and that they take into account what he has made on a regular basis over the past few years so even if he cuts back his hours in an attempt to pay a lower amount, it won't work. Stuff like that. I hope that court day is a day of reckoning when he actually has to face what he is doing. I think this trite amount of "support" is part of his fantasy. He thinks he will just have to pay this small amount, keep the rest for himself and his new life, and everything will be great.
Hang in there Mehr,
This is why there are courts of law to make people accountable for their actions.
When is the court date, soon?
People who have affairs live in the fantasy world, they really don't do the math or figure out the details of their lives, they are usually the ones that lose the most.....
wait it out Mehr........
stay dark when the s**t hits the fan.
jessi
Mehr,
Your WS is dreaming.
He will be paying a % for each child which adds up significantly, potential alimony (at least 3 years or up when you finsih your degree)
1/2 of all medical costs on top of the CS for each child including braces
Paying insurance for the children if you don't have any.

Hang tight till the case and try to get by with the little he gives you because he will have to pay back support from when papers are served.

You can't argue with a wayward because they have no soul when going through this. Be still and pray.

It will work out.

{{{{{Mehr}}}}} Keep us posted how this works out in court. I pray the judge will rule in your favor.
Loving your thread, only half way through, but feel a lot of similarities between my WH and yours.

It gave me some much need Plan B strength yesterday and today.

My WH was hostile and aggressive too, also the stuff about him being quite blatant was also there. After exosure he cried one time I knew he wasnt there, I was listening in on a VAR.

The most striking similarity for me though, was yours rolling ver to sleep when you confronted. Mine did the same, I was aghast as I hadnt been able to sleep in days.

Just wanted to say think you are amazing!
Our 4 year old daughter has been waking at night and screaming and kicking the wall and yelling things like "I want daddy to come home!!!!" ... and "I don't want other kids to use our daddy!!!" she is not doing very well and I need to get her in counseling.

I am going to have the IM inform him about how our daughter is doing. He needs to hear it, even if he denies it, because he seems to think this is all just a fun playdate and the kids like her.
Oh, mehr, I'm so sorry about your children. I don't post much to your thread, but I always keep up with your situation. You're about my daughter's age and your children are about the same ages as my grandchildren, so I think of your situation as though it was my daughter. Absolutely heart-breaking.

Please don't imagine that your WH is going to be too moved by the information about your 4-year-old. It's unimaginable how terribly self-centered waywards become. He is likely to think you're making it all up. Maybe not, but don't get your hopes up that it will change anything.

Do you have parents or family nearby who you could either move in with or gets lots of emotional and familial support through this? I just can't imagine trying to get through this on my own, especially with the difficulty the children are having. Not everyone has great parents but it might be worth considering. If it was my daughter, I'd want her very near by to give lots of support and love, even though it's not the same as having Daddy.
Originally Posted by mehr
Our 4 year old daughter has been waking at night and screaming and kicking the wall and yelling things like "I want daddy to come home!!!!" ... and "I don't want other kids to use our daddy!!!" she is not doing very well and I need to get her in counseling.

I am going to have the IM inform him about how our daughter is doing. He needs to hear it, even if he denies it, because he seems to think this is all just a fun playdate and the kids like her.

I'm sorry your baby girl is hurting. I don't think you should relay this message through your IM because you are setting yourself up for more disappointment. Even if he responds, YOU shouldn't be told what he says. That's why you're in Plan B. If anything, I would comfort her as best as you can, document it, and try to get her some counseling through the United Way or some other organization.
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Originally Posted by mehr
Our 4 year old daughter has been waking at night and screaming and kicking the wall and yelling things like "I want daddy to come home!!!!" ... and "I don't want other kids to use our daddy!!!" she is not doing very well and I need to get her in counseling.

I am going to have the IM inform him about how our daughter is doing. He needs to hear it, even if he denies it, because he seems to think this is all just a fun playdate and the kids like her.

I'm sorry your baby girl is hurting. I don't think you should relay this message through your IM because you are setting yourself up for more disappointment. Even if he responds, YOU shouldn't be told what he says. That's why you're in Plan B. If anything, I would comfort her as best as you can, document it, and try to get her some counseling through the United Way or some other organization.

I agree with PM 100%

DO NOT tell wayward husband ANYTHING going on in your home. If he is as whacked as I was, he will document it as way to establish your inability to parent these children and may even attempt to fight you for custody as a result.

Most attempts to reason with a wayward will backfire, they are whacked while wayward!

Stay Dark, No Communication will have better results than anything else you can think of.


Mehr,

From what I can see of your Plan B..... It's not dark enough!

You are still allowing your wayward husband and his AP to control your emotions. The desired outcome of Plan B is to level out the emotional rollercoaster and give you some peace.

You will need this time of peace to draw from in the very near future regardless of whether your wayward husband returns to the marriage or not.

I'm truly sorry your little ones are struggling so....


Mehr, hate to say I agree with the others. When my DD was having all kinds of issues and taking her to a counselor, I thought XH would be horrified and jump in.

Instead he whined a little and never went to see the counselor like what was suggested and out of that therapy DD decided she did not want to see XH.

Because your daughter is 4 and that your DD is on his insurance I would have the IM inform him that your daughter will be going to a counselor, therapist or family clinic with no explanation. If he asks why give him the phone number of the facility you are using. Let him figure it out.

And don't listen to any counselor who will tell you to accept the OW to make it easier for D. Find a Christian counselor who will build her faith.

Blessings
Originally Posted by hope3343
Because your daughter is 4 and that your DD is on his insurance I would have the IM inform him that your daughter will be going to a counselor, therapist or family clinic with no explanation. If he asks why give him the phone number of the facility you are using. Let him figure it out.

This is UNNECESSARY!

This man chose to ABANDON his family!!!!!!!

HE IS NOT ENTITLED TO ANY INFORMATION!!!!!


Stay Dark!
Stay Dark!


Other than your IM exchanging scheduled visitation information with WH, there should be no other information exchanged.

WH does not exist in the realms of your everyday life. He gave up ALL rights to information when he abandoned his wife & family.



While I agree that you shouldn't send anything through your I'm I will tell you about the way I handled it. When my DSs would cry that they missed their dad I would ask them if they wanted to talk to him. If they said yes then I would have them call. If they said no I would just hold them and listen to them until they felt better. Right now, when my DSx2 go to WH and OWs for the night, the night before they want a lot of my attention. After they come home, they are running around like crazy. It's sad for me, but I do what I need to.

This might not be the right thing to do, but it keeps me in as dark a plan B as possible while having young children.

I do agree with HPB that your Plan B hasn't been as dark as possible but if it is as you say, and there is no direct or indirect contact, then it is your thinking and your focus. You need to change that if you want to make some real progress in Plan B and your personal recovery.

I don't know if you answered me, but what are your child exchanges like? Is there indirect contact there? What do you talk about with your friends and family? Hint, it should be something other than your WH.

I understand that your financial sitch is eating at you, and it should. You should just make sure that you do this the right way and take care of your children and yourself.

If one of the children was taken to the ER or had a serious injury/illness, WH should be contacted then.

I like the idea of staying with, or even just visiting family members. The more family and friends that rally around the kids, the easier (less horrible) it will be.
Originally Posted by Neak
If one of the children was taken to the ER or had a serious injury/illness, WH should be contacted then.

While I was wayward, one of our sons had an injury that required an emergency room visit and multiple stiches in the top of his head.

Neither my wife nor any of the kids mentioned it for several weeks. I was furious when I found out!!!!

However, it was one of those moments that shocked me out of my fog, causing me to really wrestle with choices I had made. I realized, in that moment, I was losing my family and recognised it was my own fault. Regretfully, the fog arose again and again.

I'm in full agreement with Neak, I just wanted to share a story and express my desire for you to place the proper weight on what is truly serious enough to inform WH about.
Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
Originally Posted by Neak
If one of the children was taken to the ER or had a serious injury/illness, WH should be contacted then.

While I was wayward, one of our sons had an injury that required an emergency room visit and multiple stiches in the top of his head.

Neither my wife nor any of the kids mentioned it for several weeks. I was furious when I found out!!!!

However, it was one of those moments that shocked me out of my fog, causing me to really wrestle with choices I had made. I realized, in that moment, I was losing my family and recognised it was my own fault. Regretfully, the fog arose again and again.

I'm in full agreement with Neak, I just wanted to share a story and express my desire for you to place the proper weight on what is truly serious enough to inform WH about.

When I said to Mehr about just having IM tell him about going to counselor my initial thought was that he was not made aware he could use it against her in court.


But now hearing from a true wayward (Praise God ex- wayward) that how much out of it they truly are. You are correct don't tell him. He will either blame mehr that she is poisoning DD, not really care or be invested or just get mad.

I stand corrected. Tell him nothing but do take your DD to the counselor. She needed as much as my DD did and it did wonders.
Originally Posted by hope3343
Because your daughter is 4 and that your DD is on his insurance I would have the IM inform him that your daughter will be going to a counselor, therapist or family clinic with no explanation.

I am not able to do this because we have a 500 deductible and i have no money. I have to find a counselor that takes medicaid... I wonder if I can even find a Christian one that won't just make it an easier divorce and remarriage for him. Today my daughter was telling grandpa that daddy is going to marry someone else. Since I never mentioned marrying, I think this has to be coming from her time with WH.
Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
DO NOT tell wayward husband ANYTHING going on in your home. If he is as whacked as I was, he will document it as way to establish your inability to parent these children and may even attempt to fight you for custody as a result.

Most attempts to reason with a wayward will backfire, they are whacked while wayward!

Its too late.... I already sent the message... I hope he doesn't try to fight for custody. I will remember this from now on. I will send nothing else.

Is there a thread where you told your story? How did you stop being wayward? When did the "fog" wear off, etc.? What did you do while "whacked"??
Originally Posted by Scotland
I don't know if you answered me, but what are your child exchanges like? Is there indirect contact there? What do you talk about with your friends and family? Hint, it should be something other than your WH.

I understand that your financial sitch is eating at you, and it should. You should just make sure that you do this the right way and take care of your children and yourself.

Most of the time I drop the kids off at my in laws (couple blocks from my house) and then leave before he gets there. Every now and then I have to wait for him to arrive because they aren't there. For a short while I had him picking them up here but I no longer wanted to do that since SHE was going to appear in my driveway since they use her car and his car to get our four children to their lair.

Yeah I totally need to move on mentally. It is very hard. I think it just takes time. I need to not let him know what is going on even with the kids mental state, but it is hard because I see all the fallout and he thinks everything is just fine (I think). I don't want to put any more information to him though. He will just have to wonder what is going on... if he even cares enough to wonder. Sigh.
Originally Posted by Neak
I like the idea of staying with, or even just visiting family members. The more family and friends that rally around the kids, the easier (less horrible) it will be.

I would live with family if I had any family that would be able to take us but I don't. My parents start getting snappy with my kids after just an afternoon with them. They had two kids 12 years apart, and they cant handle more than one at a time.
Originally Posted by mehr
Most of the time I drop the kids off at my in laws (couple blocks from my house) and then leave before he gets there. Every now and then I have to wait for him to arrive because they aren't there. For a short while I had him picking them up here but I no longer wanted to do that since SHE was going to appear in my driveway since they use her car and his car to get our four children to their lair.

THIS is what is the main reason you are stuck. THIS is a HUGE problem for someone in Plan B. You are really going to have to change this.

What happens when you have to wait for him? Do you see him?

This needs to get plugged up and fast.
I walk out the front door while he is coming in the side door. I will work on the holes in this. I am practicing really letting him go right now. I packed up 2 garbage bags of his stuff to pass on to him.

My plan to go to college and get a nursing degree will work with or without him. And maybe once I have 'let go' and am not in the picture at all, the other woman will get comfortable and show her true colors and/or my husband will get comfortable and start acting more like he did here.... see how she likes having a man who is used to having everything done for him.
Do you have any aquaintances who could handle the switch off for you?
Trustworthy, willing people? Someone with a home between yours and the other home?

One thing I have learned in MB planning is to reach out to others for support and I have bonded more deeply than ever with general humanity.

Lots of people want to help. Its amazing. Its a-mazing.


This is why you are hurting Mehr. You aren't staying dark enough and it is keeping you in the drama and mindset of the affair instead of healing.

Doesn't mean that you won't heal, it just means that it will take much longer and you will go through a lot more hurt than necessary.

Brainstorm some ways to get this figured out so you can dark as night and you can really begin to heal.
Hear, hear! You won't know how badly this has been affecting you till you're fully dark for a little while. The difference is huge.
Most of the time my mother in law is there and I leave before he gets there. The other times, there is nothing I can do about it. There is no one b/w here and the lair as we live in a low populated area and my friends all live in "the city." I wish I had another option because I hate those times I have to actually deal with the trade off in any way.

I am getting to feeling better... even when it isn't visitation days, this whole thing just hurts, even whie I am able to realize that maybe I can find a better man. I am just not interested in someone who would dump his wife and kids for such selfish reasons, it completely turns me off.
Keeping it this way is allowing you to bleed a slow and painful death. You need to STOP the bleeding.

I can't stress to you enough how much you need to do this for yourself. hug
I don't know how to change the drop off situation. It works great when my in laws are home, not so great when they are not. Its part of the problem with living in a rural area..

No more visitations for another week... he gets them next Saturday.
Scotty managed ok even with p/u and dropoff at her home, as long as she had the strength to not look out the window. wink
Yea, I did. And I still do. It's hard not to look out that window, even now. But knowing that her ugly mugg is there too, and I may want to go out and AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh, well, you all get the picture. wink

Mehr, you are still suffering so far out, and I am hurting for you. Just trying to figure out ways to help you heal. I know it takes time, and everyone is different, just want to help. Please, try to think about ways you CAN make your sitch different and better for you.

Well, right now I drop them at in laws and then they get dropped off here. The reason I drop them at the in laws is because I don't want HER to pull into my driveway and if I made pick up here she would be in my driveway. Talk about triggering.

Speaking of that.... the most upsetting events for me right now are hearing from my 4 year old daughter about OW. Today I were in the kitchen getting dinner ready and she says, "OW washes the potatoes." Just a simple statement. It was so upsetting to me I couldn't get it out of my head and my mind wandered far even t if I am going to have to tolerate her at my kids weddings someday. Sigh. My daughter and I are close, but she is 4, so she comes out with these statements innocently, but it hurts and I worry the OW will replace me in my kid's hearts. I have to deal with all the hard stuff with the kids and they don't.
I actually don't see how having the pick up at my house would be better for me. If I can have self control not to look at home, I can have self control not to look at my in laws house either. I just walk out the front door as he is coming in the side door. Its not really any different.
I think I suffer because of my own mind and imagination. It is hard to turn it off. I just can't believe this is happening.
If you truly believe that the visitation switches isn't the prob, then let's focus on what you DO think the problem is.

Have you read my thread? Do you know about the "daddy's in a pickle jar"(aka the "Loonie jar")? If so, would you be willing to start one of your own? Every time that you think about, or talk about WH or OW, you are to put a dollar in the jar. At the end of the week, you use that money to do something fun with the children. Believe me, I was amazed at how many times I had thought about WH. frown

There is also the rubber band around the wrist. You wear one around your wrist ALWAYS and when you have a thought about WH or OW, you snap the rubber band against your wrist.

Are you up for either one of those?
Living as close to Canada as we do, we see Loonies every now and again. I always think of the Loonie Jar. grin
Hey, are you calling us Canucks, "Loonies?" Oh wait, you mean our dollar coins. wink

I am just glad that I didn't use Twonies. I would have been BROKE.

Mehr, are there any other triggers that you may have around the house? Pictures, gifts, etc? Anything that makes you think of your WH?
I have not changed any of the pictures in the house and some of them have him in it.... although one of our family pictures the kids knocked off the wall and the glass shattered.... it felt rather symbolic. Do I really need to change them? I don't want the kids to think I have given up hope, and also my in laws. So far they are still not accepting the OW and they know I am waiting.

I finally stopped wearing my wedding ring about a month ago.
I do think the main problem is in my head. I have a hard time letting go. I can work on retraining my mind. I do feel that I am getting stronger with time, maybe a little slowly but I don't know what is typical, but when I do have some emotional stuff to dump I come here so maybe you see the worst of it...
The pictures.

I kept a lot up until one day I decided to try putting them away and see how it felt.

It helped taking them down.

There are two pics up and they trigger me sometimes (one in a child's room and one in the living room which I kept up not due to WH but due to the other content).

I didn't tell the kids I would take pics down. I just did. They are welcome to look at photos from the photo collection.

The kids miss WH too. I think the pics reminded them how he chose to be gone from us and it added to their hurt.

They know I love their father. My actions have demonstrated that. They know I am open to a reconciliation if the affair ever ends and WH is capable of heavy lifting as a man.

They know. Your kids will know too.

They watch your actions.

You communicate when they ask to communicate.

You are their rock. (you have no choice and you simply are)
I think I might do the pickle jar, but for now I am just seeing if I can "turn my mind" when he pops into it. I do need to work on my own healing.... how do I go about doing that? Does it happen naturally as he is out of the picture? I feel a little better everyday... it is a slow process. Maybe it just takes time.

Going to college is giving me a sense of purpose and goals to aim for. I think pretty soon I will hold all the cards. The only thing I "need" from WH is some money, and the courts should take care of that... less than a month... it can't come soon enough.
It does take time.

You love him and always will even if you are more and more indifferent to him or angry that he did this.

You will think he is less handsome, smart, talented as time goes by too.......
: )

If he ever comes back to recover, you will be in a better place to clearly make decisions. You will be stronger and stronger.

It makes you become a woman to be respected and dealt with on a more deeper level.
Originally Posted by reading
You will think he is less handsome, smart, talented as time goes by too.......
: )

Yesss, I can already feel this happening. What I want most is to have an intact family for my children's benefit, and to stay the course on one marriage for life, but I can feel the shift of power changing even as he cannot see it. Pretty soon I will hold all the cards if he comes crawling back, and there will need to be a definite and apparent heart change because I will settle for nothing less.
Mehr,

I'm 7 months from last D day and 5 months from when WSTBHXH filed for retaliatory divorce.

I can say with 100% confidence that the less you have to do with your H, the better. I took down photos, packed up his stuff and removed any and all reminders. I haven't had a conversation with him in months. Email has been my savior.

I have seen him for divorce meetings and I finally (after all these months) feel capable of being in the same room with him without feeling overwhelmed. Like you, I feel more in control now than before...not of him but finally of myself and my future. It helped to finally get a written agreement about child and spousal support so I don't have to fight that battle every month.

You'll get stronger and more in control - not of the situation (because your wayward H is crazy) but of yourself which will make you a formidable opponent. If and when he wants to come back, you will be able to decide if it's the right thing for you.

Stay strong!
I feel good. I like being in college + being a mom more than I liked being a stay at home mom alone. I feel more challenged, and I have a clear goal, and I have somewhere to put my energy. And then when I am with the kids I am less burnt out and happier to see them. They seem to be finally getting used to the routine. I am signed up for 4 classes this fall, I am taking the test and applying to the nursing program on October. I am hoping to get in for the spring semester because I am in a hurry to get a degree and a good job. I really look forward to when I have a well paying job AND I get 40% of WH's income (that is the amount in Illinois he will be paying in child support even after I lose alimony, etc.)

So today I had some contact but there was no way to avoid it. My in laws are out of state, my parents are out of town, my intermediary worked. I just dropped them off and he saw me, I didn't really look at him. Anyway, THAT didn't bother me... what did bother me was finding a 30 page document in my mailbox from his lawyer (through my lawyer) asking all kinds of questions about my financial situation, and I don't even know the answer to some of them... marital v. non marital property, etc.... and then I find myself getting ANXIETY over what he is going to take from the house, knowing I won't be able to replace the TV (etc.) for years... I can't wait for August 11th (our first court date) to come and go because it is all so scary.
I am very disillusioned over my husband. Today I wish the divorce would go through today so that I could just move on.
Sorry this is so hard. You can make it.
Thank you, it is interesting to me how papers from a lawyer can cause more upset than being present in the same space with him. I really didn't know what else to do though. It will get easier.
Mehr, I used to panic everytime I got something from the sleazeball attorney that XH hired.

Don't panic thinking you will be giving away the farm. You won't .. Your children are young and if it ever comes to D, your WH will be in a financial mess. Remember it is the court that decides what he will pay not him.

I am impressed you are going to apply to nursing school instead of crawling under a rock and hiding while all of this is going on. Bravo.
And guess what! I have an interview at the college's library on Wednesday for a part time job...

I really like it when I don't have to deal with him for a while and I am just living with me and the kids.

I ran all kinds of figures on various incomes (worst case scenerio child support, best case scenerio child support + alimony) and my budget and I think things are going to be okay.

P.S. by the way the last few weeks he's started paying some child support, I think he can feel that court date approaching ... it isn't as much as I think he will have to pay, though, but its something

Wow! So today I got an auto-deposit from my husband's work place... he has figured out some way to put that straight in there, and he did it all on his own. This improves my view of him considerably.... I didn't realize how important finances were to me. Maybe he started to feel guilty or something.

I think this is a great sign. It is an action in the right direction - which is great!!!
Suggestions on how to tighten up Plan B?
Well you already know my thoughts on drop offs.

Also, when you send the kids with him do you pack them bags?

What types of things are being sent through the I.M.? Is there anything that really doesn't need to be sent? Like perhaps reminders about things?

Remember that when it is your time to have your children, it is your responsibility to find day care for them well he has the same responsibility.

On a couple of occasions I wasn't going to be there for drop of, so I had to call a family member or friend and ask them to be there for me.

When my WH was unable to take the boys because he was having surgery, I had to miss a dfay of work and I made him pay for the missed day of work.

We aren't a team anymore. We are separate people who happen to both be parents of the same 2 children.

What things can you think of? Remember it's all about YOUR mindset not HIS.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Well you already know my thoughts on drop offs.

Now that my in laws have been on vacation, I think there shouldn't be any incidental contact there. However, when he drops them at my house at the end of visitation it has been a real problem. The smaller kids simply refuse to come into the house and I frequently have to go out and get them or he carries them to the door to get them in.

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Also, when you send the kids with him do you pack them bags?

No/yes. He had to buy his own diapers, wipes, and a set of clothes for accidents (incidently, I believe his MOM bought all of that for him because she mentioned it once but whatever)... however my middle two frequently have accidents and come home in the exra clothes so then I have to send them back the next time.


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Like perhaps reminders about things?

Only about that stupid car insurance issue because he is costing me money, once that is separated I don't think there is anything. He can ruin his credit for all I care as long as he doesn't touch mine.


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What things can you think of? Remember it's all about YOUR mindset not HIS.

In regards to your post on that tangent thread, I believe I a building a life that doesn't have him in it, doesn't require him, and where I am not dependent on him for anything. My life has dramatically changed since he left in April. I have gone from being a homeschooling stay at home mom, to a full time college student with kids in daycare and school (soon). I had an interview for a part time job (not sure if I got it yet) this week and everything is just very different. We used to stay up late, sleep in late (because my husband works nights) and now the kids and I sleep early and get up early... I think my recovery is going pretty well ... however I still recognize it would be a lot simpler to reconcile than to find another guy and need to do the stepparents thing, etc. The old husband must be under there somewhere. For now, I move forward with a life that doesn't need him in it... I actually think I have more to offer him than he has to offer me from a practical standpoint. I still pray for him, I still love him (don't know why), I wish he would come back... but I guess time will keep working on those things. Overall I am feeling happier and more in control of my own life. And being a nurse is a good fit for me, I think, and then I can make the decision to either go back to homeschooling (while being a nurse) or pay for all my kids in the private school my sister went to.... it is a good school. Money will give me options.
The text message may have been the biggest breach for a while, but even when there is no direct C, there can be enough information to damage you that still gets through.

Really brainstorm how to get rid of the paper cuts. They may seem small at first, but they keep things all stirred up. One hurts quite a bit, two hurts terribly, and when you keep getting them day after day, the pain never stops.

As to the specific problem you mentioned with the little kids, do your absolute best to have someone else there to handle that for you. I completely understand having little kids that don't stick to the script, where an older child would respond to explanations or discipline.

If you have truly tried your best to cover each p/u and d/o with another person, and no one including your hairdresser or postal lady can make it, treat it as an unavoidable meeting like a court date. Look nice, don't be snotty but don't be friendly, that sort of thing.

That's your last-ditch plan, though. It isn't good for you, and has a high risk of prolonging the A, if he can get such a good fix of you. He might even try to set things up so the littles are naughty and you have to come deal with them. It's so much better to have someone on your team to be a buffer.

You already know what to do about the messages and IM problems, so other than the above, most of the battle will be in your own mind. Redirect your thoughts away from him, and onto positive subjects. Even when you pray for him, keep your focus on the good things. "Lord, forgive my WH and help him to be loving and kind, a good father, a righteous husband..." etc., rather than, "Lord, please help my WH to stop being so horrible, to quit committing adultery, and to stop abandoning his family."

You're strong, even stronger than you think. You can do this!
Originally Posted by Neak
The text message may have been the biggest breach for a while, but even when there is no direct C, there can be enough information to damage you that still gets through.

Really brainstorm how to get rid of the paper cuts. They may seem small at first, but they keep things all stirred up. One hurts quite a bit, two hurts terribly, and when you keep getting them day after day, the pain never stops.

Yes. I want it all to end. I sometimes finding myself wishing he would get in an unfortunate accident so this would all be over. frown

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As to the specific problem you mentioned with the little kids, do your absolute best to have someone else there to handle that for you. I completely understand having little kids that don't stick to the script, where an older child would respond to explanations or discipline.

If you have truly tried your best to cover each p/u and d/o with another person, and no one including your hairdresser or postal lady can make it, treat it as an unavoidable meeting like a court date. Look nice, don't be snotty but don't be friendly, that sort of thing.

I don't speak to him when it happens. I may just have to see if I can pick up the kids at my in laws house. I got tired of doing that, but at least I didn't have to see him then.

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has a high risk of prolonging the A, if he can get such a good fix of you.

I don't understand why just catching a visual of me prolongs the affair?
It's because it can fill an EN for him and he gets a rush, like a tiny hit, by seeing you. He feels OH SO GOOD. He KNOWS you are still there. Just don't do it, k?
Originally Posted by Scotland
It's because it can fill an EN for him and he gets a rush, like a tiny hit, by seeing you. He feels OH SO GOOD. He KNOWS you are still there. Just don't do it, k?

That's interesting. So you don't think this hit is a good thing, when he looks at me and thinks, wow she looks good and OW is overweight etc? I look much much better than the OW. I am not saying I am trying to get him to see me, but when I have had to get a kid from the front yard I an consoled myself thinking, well he can look at what he doesn't have because of his stupid choices. Let him think about that.

I am all registered for full time college classes this fall, and I got a student job in the library at the college too.... not too many hours, low paying, but it will get me back into the workforce (I haven't worked in 7 years) and hopefully supplement what I get at the court date on August 11. Also because it is a school library it will have major holidays closed which will be nice for the kids.

I have my oldest set up for school in a couple weeks and my others will continue at the same preschool/day care.

So things are going pretty well.... I STILL wonder what is going on in affairland though. I wonder if he is happy, or if things are cracking at all. I want my kid's daddy back in the house.
No it isn't good for him to see you. If it was good for your WH to see you then why would DrH suggest otherwise? It is a main part of Plan B and there is a reason for it.

Also, whenever you see him or hear about him it makes you think about him too much and you need to stop that.

Heck "I" look better than OW, and I ALWAYS have but it wasn't about looks so how is him looking at me now gonna make him want to come back? It wouldn't so I don't do it. Also, it is unattractive to a man to be chased by a woman and to be showing yourself as too available to him, or even waiting for him is going to make him stay away even longer.

Live your life as if he wasn't going to come home, ever(with exception to dating that is still off of the table at least until you are divorced). If it helps think of him as dead. In a lot of ways he is.
Mehr,

I just want to say that you have accomplished a lot for yourself in recent weeks, despite being in what is probably the worst trauma of your life. Kudos for getting yourself back into school AND getting a part-time job AND ensuring that your FOUR young children have as much stability as possible at home, school and daycare. That takes a lot of personal strength when you are under so much stress.

Live YOUR life. Don't worry about his. It will come apart at the seams before long, and you will feel more and more empowered as you accomplish your own goals.
Originally Posted by Scotland
No it isn't good for him to see you. If it was good for your WH to see you then why would DrH suggest otherwise?

I thought it was to protect me.
Maybe I should have put "?" instead of "." ... I just wasn't worried about it for that reason.... but I will see how I can manage this otherwise. Maybe the cold weather will have the kids running into the house wink ... but until then... I don't know??
Originally Posted by freefall
Mehr,

I just want to say that you have accomplished a lot for yourself in recent weeks, despite being in what is probably the worst trauma of your life. Kudos for getting yourself back into school AND getting a part-time job AND ensuring that your FOUR young children have as much stability as possible at home, school and daycare. That takes a lot of personal strength when you are under so much stress.

Live YOUR life. Don't worry about his. It will come apart at the seams before long, and you will feel more and more empowered as you accomplish your own goals.


I agree. You aren't doing everything perfectly, BUT you are doing a lot very well.

Also, Scottie's advice to think of him as dead is great. I did that with my XH during the darkest hours and it really does help.
Originally Posted by mehr
Originally Posted by Scotland
No it isn't good for him to see you. If it was good for your WH to see you then why would DrH suggest otherwise?

I thought it was to protect me.

It is mainly to protect you BUT it is also to make your WH see what life will be like without you. If he sees you he is getting his ENs met on some level even if it is small.
Okay, lemme see if I can clear this up

DO NOT LET YOUR WH SEE YOU.

There. Done.

Also DON'T SEE YOUR WH.

NO CONTACT.

Can I ask you something. I suppose I just did. Anyways, do you believe that if a WS gives up their A, but still SEE their AP on occasion, just at drop offs/etc, that THAT would be okay?
Originally Posted by mehr
[quote=Scotland]
That's interesting. So you don't think this hit is a good thing, when he looks at me and thinks, wow she looks good and OW is overweight etc? I look much much better than the OW. I am not saying I am trying to get him to see me, but when I have had to get a kid from the front yard I an consoled myself thinking, well he can look at what he doesn't have because of his stupid choices. Let him think about that.
Nooo
It took me forever to realize that it wasn't about how my FWH's xow looked compared to me, it was how she made him feel. The x-o-skank in our case was a real dog, over-weight, uneducated and really pitiful. I am very attractive, in-shape, educated, clean, high morals. Looks have absolutely nothing to do with their attraction to the OW. The OW was meeting my FWH's need to have a doormat who would do anything he told her and not question him. After D-Day he told me that the XOW had the nerve to ask him why he didn't tell her that we had moved our home to another location and he told her not to ask him about his life (what???). I can't believe what the OW settle for just to have any little piece of a MM. Makes me want to puke!

So it's not about her looks, the ow is meeting your DH's top needs. He sees her in an entirely different light than you. The OW filled in that gap in your M or your DH and will kill herself trying to meet your WH's needs. As hard as it may be for you, look past what the OW looks like and try to figure out what she is giving your DH that was missing in your M.

Good for you for returning to school.
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I agree. You aren't doing everything perfectly, BUT you are doing a lot very well.

Thank you...
Originally Posted by cobol_girl
So it's not about her looks, the ow is meeting your DH's top needs. He sees her in an entirely different light than you. The OW filled in that gap in your M or your DH and will kill herself trying to meet your WH's needs. As hard as it may be for you, look past what the OW looks like and try to figure out what she is giving your DH that was missing in your M.

I already know how she snuck in there, but its too late for me knowing to make any difference. All I can do is "let go" and wait.
Nope Mehr, what you need to do is "Let go and LIVE."

How long do you plan on staying in Plan B?
Originally Posted by Scotland
Nope Mehr, what you need to do is "Let go and LIVE."

How long do you plan on staying in Plan B?

I will stall the divorce if I can and as long as I am married I will obviously remain in Plan B. If the divorce goes through I may or may not date [others] depending on how I feel at the time and may or may not still remain open to reconcilation as well, but I will never be his friend or accept casual contact with him so long as I live unless he comes to repentance.
Mehr,

Just my .02 here. Dating right after a divorce is BAD BAD BAD. It is basically worthless. Your heart would be in no way healed and it would be akin to having (albeit legal) a revenge affair for your heart definitely will not have been mended, and NEITHER would the hearts of your kids, who have to learn how to adjust to such sad situations as divorce.

I didn't date for a few years after. What did I do? I worked on me. I travelled with my ds. I went on vacations with my girlfriends! It was awesome. And I went thru IC to heal ME after the horrific ordeal I went thru with Darth.

I knew it was time to begin dating again, when my son asked me about it about 2.5 years after the divorce. We were watching Crocodile Hunter (Steve was alive then..miss him) and my son looked up at me and smiled. He said, "mom, Steve I seems like such a nice man. Plus he likes animals like I do. He is always happy. I think we should go on our next vacation to Australia. You and I will go to his zoo and you will look pretty. He'll think you're pretty and then he will move to America and you can date him."

That was the signal my son wanted me to move on personally and re-enter dating again.

Sadly, I had to explain to my son that Steve was already happily married, and that we can't bring him home to America.

The next tv show came on with Brady Barr on it. My son then asked the same thing.."Hey mom. Look at this cool guy named Brady. He likes snakes. I do too. Do you think he's cute?"

You get the drift.

And NO I did not remarry a man named Brady either smile But my dh does love going off-roading in his tricked out jeep w/my son, is devoted to him, taught him to kayak, hike, etc. Gets dirty with him, and did manage to show him a shark under his kayak when we were on our family vacation this year.
ARGH... CLEARLY the drop off situation is NOT working on Thursdays and Fridays when his mom is at work, but I have good news. That is that from now on he will be picking them up from the daycare/school on Thursdays and Fridays.

Plan B was broken AGAIN today.... I waited for him to park his car and, i thought, walk into the side door, then i walked out the front. The kids were crying and clawing at me with the 4 yo and 7yo crying and saying "no, I don't wanna go see daddy.... noooo"... so I didn't notice until I finally closed the door that THERE HE WAS. He was standing there. He started with, "I know you don't want to talk to me, but..."

I walked back into the house and shut the door. I waited a minute and he was still out there. Then he walked into the front door and started again, "I just need to talk to you about the money." Meanwhile, the kids are clawing at me and crying "nooo, don't leave mommy... nooooo" I detach myself from the ones that have ahold of my clothes and walk out the front door and WH is saying "Its just about the money next week." My daughter chased me all the way to the car crying about not wanting me to go. I became angry and said "I don't care about the money, look at what you are doing to the kids!"

I don't think he heard me though because he was inside the door of the house. I then drove away.

Yes. I need a new drop off plan, PRONTO, because tomorrow is an issue.
Mehr,

I'm concerned about the trauma for your children. How often are they going back and forth between you and your husband? AND, is the OW present? Is there a guardian ad litem for the children? Their degree of distress when you drop them off seems really extreme and stressful for both you and the children, especially since they are so young.

Have you talked to any professionals (ie., attorney, guardian ad litem, therapist) about the difficulties the children are having?


Originally Posted by freefall
Mehr,

I'm concerned about the trauma for your children. How often are they going back and forth between you and your husband? AND, is the OW present? Is there a guardian ad litem for the children? Their degree of distress when you drop them off seems really extreme and stressful for both you and the children, especially since they are so young.

Have you talked to any professionals (ie., attorney, guardian ad litem, therapist) about the difficulties the children are having?

They see him 4 days in a 21** day cycle, yes the OW is involved in visitation, but not when I am there. My son (almost 7, this month) says he does not want to see daddy anymore. He doesn't want to visit him because he says he doesn't like the OW and that he hardly sees daddy anyway because there's always all these other kids there (not only OW's but also OW's best friend's 4 kids). But of course at his age he has NO CHOICE. My daughter, 4, just wants to be with me. I think she has a good time with daddy once she is with him. But she is really attached to me, especially since daddy left. I am the only stable thing in her life.

**Edit to clarify, its 2 days in a row Th/Fri then Sat-Sun on another week, and they do no overnights right now.
Mehr,

I am going to be very firm here. you get that lawyer to DO SOMETHING and YOU FILE FOR SOLE CUSTODY YOU HEAR ME?

This is simply too much for the kids and you're not doing anything about it, plus you are setting up a SLIPPERY SLOPE for how custody WILL GO AFTER THE DIVORCE do you know that?

The judge will SEE that you've been letting your crazy wh and his skankho (the one who bathes your kids you won't stop or get the lawyer to stop or investigate or file the alienation of affection suit against) GET THE KIDS REGULARLY and they don't want to go and they are now 100% officially traumatized by that. The judge will see that they are actively going over there and spending the night OFTEN and his ruling just may very well reflect that fact that it SEEMS like it is OKAY with you that your kids go over there and spend the night with skankho in the house and a wayward daddy being a bad daddy.

And don't think that seeing you and probably asking for TIME TO WAIT TO PAY HIS CS to you is eating cake. Nope. This man is out for HIMSELF. Number one.

Please stop all of this. Please. Go to a REAL plan B. MAKE YOUR ATTORNEY WORK FOR YOU AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU AND THE KIDS NOW. Stop wh from having the kids all the time.

Plus why are you letting him have the kids for overnights if the skank ho is spending the night??? Do you realize you can get this nipped in the bud if you do it right?
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Mehr,

I am going to be very firm here. you get that lawyer to DO SOMETHING and YOU FILE FOR SOLE CUSTODY YOU HEAR ME?

This is simply too much for the kids and you're not doing anything about it, plus you are setting up a SLIPPERY SLOPE for how custody WILL GO AFTER THE DIVORCE do you know that?

The judge will SEE that you've been letting your crazy wh and his skankho (the one who bathes your kids you won't stop or get the lawyer to stop or investigate or file the alienation of affection suit against) GET THE KIDS REGULARLY and they don't want to go and they are now 100% officially traumatized by that.

And don't think that seeing you and probably asking for TIME TO WAIT TO PAY HIS CS to you is eating cake. Nope. This man is out for HIMSELF. Number one.

Please stop all of this. Please. Go to a REAL plan B. MAKE YOUR ATTORNEY WORK FOR YOU AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU AND THE KIDS NOW. Stop wh from having the kids all the time.

Plus why are you letting him have the kids for overnights if the skank ho is spending the night??? Do you realize you can get this nipped in the bud if you do it right?

Okay I just called my attnorney and I will ask some more questions about this.

First, they are not getting any overnights. He drops them back off at 7pm. The youngest is still nursing. I also need to be VERY CAREFUL because he has already filed for a temporary relief for visitation and claimed that I am keeping the kids from him. I need to tread carefully. I am waiting for a call back.
Tomorrow, get a friend, family member, pastor, ANYBODY to take care of that drop-off. You definitely do not want to do that again. I don't say that to beat you up - you see that what you were doing, though it may have worked in the past, isn't working, and are taking steps to change it.

As to your interaction, you were ambushed and off guard. In a situation like that, unless you have your response planned in advance, it's very hard at the time.

Should you experience an ambush like that again, I would suggest that, rather than ignoring him, you briefly give him your full attention and ask, "Are you willing to give up all contact with the OW, forever?"

When he refuses, sputters, or whatever, you calmly and sweetly say, "Until then, we have nothing to talk about." And then walk away.

You want to do everything humanly possible to prevent these encounters in the first place, but if they happen despite all your precautions, it is better to answer like above if he tries to talk to you, than to ignore him. Or if he's not trying to talk to you, just smile, say hi, and leave.

By being nice, you refuse to let him hide in his rationalizations and justifications.

And when it's done, you go back to the drawing board and come up with even more precautions to keep a breach from happening again.

As to those poor, poor children, you need to deal with this on several fronts. One is to talk directly to them and give them a chance to say why they are so upset. Without coming right out and telling them, you are wanting to rule out some sort of abuse.

The other is to talk to them ahead of time, each time, and try to prepare them to leave you without totally having a breakdown.

There may be other things to explore in dealing with that, but those two suggestions are where I would start.

"temporary relief from visitation?" who's being relieved? you or WH? In my state minor kids always have a guardian ad litem who makes recommendations to the court after evaluating the children. If that's not the case where you live, an independent professional evaluation by a child psychologist should be part of your attorney's strategy. PUSH him/her on this.

I agree with Peachy here.

Originally Posted by freefall
"temporary relief from visitation?" who's being relieved? you or WH? In my state minor kids always have a guardian ad litem who makes recommendations to the court after evaluating the children. If that's not the case where you live, an independent professional evaluation by a child psychologist should be part of your attorney's strategy. PUSH him/her on this.

I agree with Peachy here.

him, apparently, since I was supposedly keeping the kids from him (which I was not)... we don't have one of those guardians, haven't heard of that...
Ugh just checked my voicemail and somehow I missed the lawyer's call back, I never heard the phone ring though.

The kids tell me they stayed at grandma and grandpa's today, so no OW. I am thankful for that at least.
I have an appt with the lawyer next Tuesday to discuss things, especially since our court date for temporary support is next Thursday.

This really is a roller coaster. I can go from feeling amazing and happy with life to feeling really sad and missing my husband all in the same day. I don't think he is ever coming back. She must be great.
I spent brain cells tonight thinking about how I should have stayed in Plan A longer. It was working... he was so close to returning to me... and then I vanished and the "sweet" other woman is now in my place... I am afraid they might actually be well suited and will make it work.
mehr - I'm no vet here, psychologist, or expert of any kind, but I think your feelings are normal. Don't even think that. Their relationship is built on fantasy - not reality. You may or may not get your husband back, but you can't doubt yourself like this. I know that's easier said than done - I have the same feelings. However, it's not healthy for you. Focus on things you can control, you and your kids.

Don't be surprised if all of this takes time. My current WW is my second wife. My first wife decided that she didn't want kids, a year AFTER we were married. That was a deal breaker for me and we divorced - about 18 months after the D was final, she tried to re-establish contact with me. I cut her off. I guess what I'm trying to tell you is not to give up hope yet. The fantasy will crumble. You may or may not recover your marriage, but this relationship won't last over the long term. The odds are against it. Hang in there!
Mehr;
Are your kids home now? It is very late, and if you got 'em, you need to be resting.

Mehr - You and I have to stick together. I go through the same emotions. One part of the day I am raging because life is tough raising these four kids by myself. Then by the afternoon I think - patience, consistency, and Plan B. I can do this. They have one year in already, and three months with full nuclear exposure.

Like Andy said - the relationship is built on nothing but fantasy. My WH is completely in lala land and has no clue about reality.

My kids hate the OW, and have no desire to be around her. My WH is trying hard to get them to like her, but kids aren't dumb. They know she is evil.

Stick with me here because we have to be strong and patient. I know staying in Plan B is helping tremendously. I have lots of time during the day when I am in prayer. I feel GOD is telling me to stay out of their lives. Let this affair crumble on its own. I am their common enemy, and for the longest time my WH's punching bag.

I am letting her be the punching bag and meet all his needs. From the couple times I broke Plan B I know she is failing miserable on EN's for him.

Tough~
Mehr - I read Mortaman, QueeniesAdventure, and Mimi's thread weekly for inspiration. Each of them had the guts to keep going.

Something that I think our WH's have in common is the way their lives got consumed by kids and they are both young men. An old poster named, LovingAnyway, has had great insight on how to change yourself to handle a husband who had the "Running Away or Escaping" coping mechanism.

I am learning how to let go of control and the expectations I have for what my WH needs to do in our home. My WH felt so controlled by me for years.

Part of the main attraction to OW is she doesn't care what he does. In his mind she isn't controlling him (yet, I can see how she really is controlling and manipulating him).

Overtime as the OW's true colors come to light I will look like a better alternative to my WH because he will see me as no longer trying to control him. Plan B helps that by removing ourselves from their drama.

Currently I am learning how to communicate my needs differently than before so he doesn't feel controled by me. Then there are no expectations from me for him. This helps because then I no longer build resentment when he doesn't do what I want him to do.

Tough
Mehr, it is completely NORMAL to think this. I had some of these same thoughts. Sometimes, I would even convince myself into breaking Plan B just to get a fix. I even thought that if he just saw me, he would wake up. I would tell myself that I couldn't though. I couldn't disappoint the many people here who helped me through those hard days. I couldn't let all of what I did be for waste.

Sometimes, I read someone else's thread and I think that I should have done that, I could have done Plan A better, if onlys. They don't help anyone. Besides, my WH is so wayward, it wouldn't have done any good. We could have been doing that stupid dance for years and years, and I would have cracked emotionally.

Do you remember how difficult it was during Plan A? Do you remember your worst day/moment during it? Think about how that felt and if you would want to feel like that again. My bet is NO.
quit thinking about your wayward husbands' mindset then or now.

It matters not.

What matters is NEXT THURSDAY ok?

Focus on what you would like the outcome to be for next thursday and write them here.

For starters, how about FULL CUSTODY?
Thank you all for your thoughts... I have that appointment with the lawyer on Tuesday to discuss the court date on Thursday. Today was a good day, hopefully tomorrow also.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Do you remember how difficult it was during Plan A? Do you remember your worst day/moment during it? Think about how that felt and if you would want to feel like that again. My bet is NO.

Yes, Plan A was tiring in many ways... it felt good to be doing something, but this is a much more restful place. I just feel like I have no idea what is going on over there, that is what I miss. When I was in Plan A I heard all of WH's doubts and things he doesn't like about the OW, and those things reassured me that there is hope. Now I just stew in my own fears that they are getting along wonderfully.

loveitough, I took what you said and decided to read mimi's plan B thread. She got a lot of good advice on that one.

Maybe there is hope, since my WH did attempt to cake eat a few times.... maybe.
Mehr, you need to stop focusing on him and the A. You are letting it eat at you. You really need something else to focus on.

When you talk to your friends and family what are you talking about?
Mehr,
I was gone for a week of 'old school' non technicological life and loved it.
Wow.
Anyway.....
aim for not caring a figs worth what is going on over there.

That IS possible. Also...it is awesome to be there, in that state of mind.

For real!

It takes time to want to be there but once you are ready, it rocks!
Okay, I will try. It is so hard.

Yesterday I met with my lawyer. Again, there is nothing I can do about the other woman being around my children.... please pay attention.... nothing. The judge doesn't care, no one cares. I feel like I am often beat up at MB about this, but it is what it is!!! So please stop trying to make me feel that I am not fighting the fight, which I am. It is out of my control, and I hate it.

TOMORROW IS MY COURT DATE... for
-temporary support,
-custody and a visitation schedule.

It would also be the legal separation but WH has not taken the required parenting class to do that, I don't care as long as I get money.

I will let you know how it goes.

The bad news is also that I asked how long the divorce will take, and he said there isn't a lot to fight about here so it could be done rather quickly. I said I am not in a hurry and would like it dragged out if possible.

Overall.... discouraged on several fronts: that I could be divorced by Christmas, that I can't do anything about the other woman being around my children.... encouraged that the lawyer thinks I may be able to get more money than I was planning, but we won't know until we see WH's paystubs tomorrow (he was supposed to provide them already but did not, he never gets anything done).

I want off this roller coaster. I wish he would drive off a bridge so I can be done with him and get the life insurance money. I hate that I have to tolerate him (and possibly her) for the next 20 years even if we divorce. I think I will never trust again. I never should have had kids with anyone and tied myself to their existance like this.
I have to laugh about the bridge.....cause I have thought very similar thoughts myself. It is sad to have those thoughts cross our minds. We are human though....

You HAVE fought the fight and still must.

Focus on yourself and the kids when they are with you. Try to release control of when they are with dad. Try to not let the anger and frustration about the state of things to take a hold of you. It is sucky. Yes it is. You can only control yourself. That is HUGE.

I will be waiting with baited breath to read how the court date goes.
Chances are, if you don't reconcile (and R is still a possibility), you'll only have to put up with this particular OW for a few months up to a couple years.

She's already toast, she just doesn't know it yet.
Oh my goodness, my lawyer just called, my husband is attempting to use a paycheck that is over a month old to calculate CS, because I know how much overtime he works in July. What a selfish idiot. I am so done with him.
Wouldn't many people try to use a paycheck that was less? It is human nature. Especially for a wayward.
Just deal with it and do not let it aggitate you more.
Stay on your toes but don't let him stomp on them and make you screech.
Your lawyer sounds like he (or she) is a good conduit to handle the issues that need to be tended to.
mehr --
if he wanted to speed this up -- he shoulda taken the class, right? He's dragging his feet too. Its just harder to see when you're in the middle of it.

Him not complying is his way of delaying.

Neak is right. This OW will be gone in no time.
And really? The kids interupting their romance might be just the ticket to blow it up. She can only be on her best behavior for so long. She'll show her true colors. And it will likely be over discipline of the 4 kids. Your Wh won't put up with her criticizing or disciplining his kids.
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
mehr --
if he wanted to speed this up -- he shoulda taken the class, right? He's dragging his feet too. Its just harder to see when you're in the middle of it.

Him not complying is his way of delaying.

Neak is right. This OW will be gone in no time.
And really? The kids interupting their romance might be just the ticket to blow it up. She can only be on her best behavior for so long. She'll show her true colors. And it will likely be over discipline of the 4 kids. Your Wh won't put up with her criticizing or disciplining his kids.

She has 3 kids of her own... imagine them with SEVEN kids!!! These people are crazy. Granted, hers are only there 1/2 the time....

I am SO NERVOUS ABOUT TOMORROW....... court.
Honestly, I don't think he's stalling, he just doesn't get things done, he is too busy having a grand old time with the affair to have time for things like financial inquiries, or parenting classes....
He is dragging his feet girl. He really wants you and her.
Get it?
If he has to choose this second...he chooses her but her wants you both.
She is meeting certain needs that you couldn't (after having his babies) and you meet some she can't (you are mother to his many children!)
I think he's a full blown wayward Mehr.

I think he must be dealt with harshly in the courts right now to simply wash away some of this fog and bring in a hard dose of reality.

Right now HE WANTS THE AFFAIR. Period. If he wants otherwise, he can move home and stop all this stupidity.
Play.HARDBALL.

Do not feel sorry for the wayward. The BEST option for busting up this affair is THE COURT SHOWING HIM HOW IT WILL BE.

You do not engage in dealing with him at all. Let the lawyer handle it all. You just look great and be the decent, nice, mother.

MAKE sure this lawyer fights like a junkyard dog ok? Fights with all he's got.

Are they subpoenae-ing the skank ow? I sure hope so.
Bring out the 2 x 4 's.... I broke Plan B with a text message.
Originally Posted by mehr
Bring out the 2 x 4 's.... I broke Plan B with a text message.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??????????????
Um, double why????

(Since just one "why" was taken.)
... because I was angry. It wasn't a nice text message, but it wasn't super mean either. No name calling. Just, stop trying to make yourself out to be a good guy.

Oh well, don't care tonight, if it extends their affair, she can have him. I think its already too late and I don't want someone back who has hurt my children like this and has been having sex with someone else for months.
I am very nervous about tomorrow, and I hope I can come back with good news financially at least.
Even supposing you don't ever care for WH again. Texting him keeps you in the drama, keeps you in a place of pain and mental unease.

That's bad for you, and it's bad for the kids.
No 2X4s from me but as Neak said, it keeps your pain and mental unease greater.

Plan B
is
for
you

That is sucks for the wayward is gravy.

Now..........stop getting sucked into his vortex and tomorrow be one heck of a strong and powerful and non-engaging wife.

Do it.

Sleep well. You are going to be okay.
Yes I need to stay out of the drama.
Originally Posted by reading
No 2X4s from me but as Neak said, it keeps your pain and mental unease greater.

Plan B
is
for
you

That is sucks for the wayward is gravy.

Now..........stop getting sucked into his vortex and tomorrow be one heck of a strong and powerful and non-engaging wife.

Do it.

Sleep well. You are going to be okay.

Okay. Tomorrow after the court date will be a new day for me to escape from the vortex. I can and I will. I hope that I am taking $$$ with me. But then I will just buckle down on the things I can control-- my own life.
Mehr - I am in Plan B with four small children and the peace I am finally reaching is wonderful.

Every contact you have with him makes you the enemy. I realized that several months ago.

My WH needed me to be his punching bag. My WH is very wayward like yours. He withheld money from me and the kids, he made me out to be a horrible mother, and has called me every other name in the book. He has thrown me under the bus with OW, and all his wayward friends today.

After reading and reading and reading about this behavior I realized he needs me to be his enemy. He needs me to punch because my wayward is in his own he[[. It is easier for him to use me to get out his angries versus looking at himself.

I decided a while back I had enough punches. I wasn't going to let him break me anymore. I didn't want to be his enemy. I learned from this forum he and OW and all his friends can meet his needs.

My WH has tried extensively to break Plan B because they cannot meet his needs, his depression is getting worse, and he no longer can punch the crap out of me. My mom is my IM, and before I told her to stop she would forward me his emails about how depressed he was and how his stomach has a pit in the bottom and he needs us to be friends. I haven't asked her for while if he is still sending those emails because I want to do a true Plan B.

I know things are not all well in lala land. I sit most of the day in prayer for him. Asking GOD to hook him, break him, bring him home.

In the meantime I am becoming the wife that can meet his emotional needs. I am working really hard to lose enough weight to be 125 pounds so I am the wife of his youth. I should be there by Thanksgiving. Then the OW and I are finally on the same playing field.

I decided when I am 125 pounds I will allow him to see me when he picks up the kids. I will allow him to see a sexy hot mama. Yes I know this breaks Plan B at Thanksgiving. I am going to slip in a silent Plan A so he can see the PA in me. Then I go Black again and stay very dark. Then he will know - she did it. She actually lost the weight. She is the wife of my youth.

Last year at Christmas my husband returned to the marriage. I am praying GOD brings him home by Christmas this year.

If not then I am fully preparing myself internally to move on to a new husband. I am reading Lovebusters and HNHN weekly to improve myself and become the wife I want to become.

Like you I do not want to raise four babies on my own. My do over will be my do over. This means I want to attract a husband and father who is that buyer. Who wants to care, love, and protect me. I look forward today to have my current husband be that man. I am fully prepared for a new one it it comes to that.

Stay Dark - I guarentee you he is having AO's, DJ's and many lovebusters to her. He is in a dark place in his heart. This dark place doesn't have room for love. Let them use each other as their punching bags.

DO NOT BE THEIR COMMON ENEMY! Get out of the picture.

Things have a way of working themselves out also. Yesterday he bounced the child support check. I spoke to my lawyer and we are going to use child support enforcement to collect the money. My WH wanted to avoid this at all costs. I am also putting a petition in for more CS because my child care has now changed and is more expensive than orginally planned. I should be able to get another $600/month from him. He is going to be so livid, but the CS is what is hitting him the hardest.

OW is very expensive, and he is going broke faster than the stock market crashing.

Time Mehr - give this time to work itself out. There isn't one good thing for either of our situations that warrants our WH's to stay away long. The CS is going to knock it out of him the most.

Consistency and Time Mehr - We can do this together.

What woman really wants to support a man with four kids?

Well, I do wish you luck with today so you can the money you need to take care if those kids.

Now, I want to ask you something about your continued breaks in Plan B, "how's that working for you?". Who's plan are you working here? Are you trying to recover or do you like staying in this pain? It seems to me that it doesn't hurt enough yet, or you feel like you somehow deserve this. Which is it? Because personally, I don't enjoy staying in pain and that is why I CHOSE a different path.

I can't sit here and watch you do this to yourself and act like you have no control over it. Why are you intentionally making this harder on yourself than it needs to be? What are you getting out of it? Think about that.

I will tell you that this persoanl recovery gig isn't easy.

T/j Tough, my hope for you is that by thanksgiving, you won't want you WH so see you cuz you won't care what he thinks about how you look. I really hope you don't go through with this, cuz it sets your clock back to zero and then all of this work you did so far will be for naught. End t/j
I haven't been to court yet, it is this afternoon.

But... I want to say I am finally ready. I am finally ready to not allow my mind to think about him/them, and to do plan B right. The pickup situation should be resolving itself with the start of school next week, and after today whatever money I get (hopefully enough) I can live my life and let go of what happens with him.

My friend came over last night and talked to me and that was nice. She is my intermediary.

I am turning over a new leaf today. I am about to start a new semester, and it is a good time.
hug and pray
Wow, IITL;
What a post. I wish you all well.
The good news is that I got enough $$ to live on, we will still be in poverty, but its doable.

The bad news is that the kids will now be spending the night at the adultery pad. It cannot be prevented, I TRIED. None of them, including the judge cares. Here in the state of Illinois it is perfectly fine for me to get a boyfriend and bring them over for the night with my kids in the house. I wish he would drop off the face of the earth instead of be such a bad example to our children.

He appears to be in a bit of a hurry to finalize the divorce. Still no court date, but his lawyer was pushing on it so I think he is in a hurry. Not sure whether to call him crazy husband, wayward husband, or soon to be exhusband at this point. My guess is he is in a huge hurry so he can run a quick wedding with the other woman and try to get his family to accept her. They are still refusing to meet her and his family is important to him.

My lawyer says the divorce probably won't take long either, but he'll do what he can.

He's gained a lot of weight. He is not looking so good.

I still pray God brings him to his knees in a real change. I would never take this wayward version back it has to be the godly repented and broken version. Its POSSIBLE.... but my hope definitely dims. I am afraid I will be tolerating HER at my children's weddings. I think if he marries her, even if he doesn't like her, he will stick with it at that point because otherwise he would look the fool even more. That is why I want to drag out the divorce if possible-- he needs enough time to get sick of her.

But my feelings are definitely.... well, I don't like him. And he's overweight and unattractive.

I am WILLING for the sake of the children and my faith, but I am starting to think maybe I would do better to move on.

*edit to correct typoe -- they are NOW spending the night at the adultery pad
How about you disengage your thoughts. Work on it for now.
Neither consider whether you could ever reconsile nor whether he is not worth it.

Do not think about future child weddings (that would be years off) or anything
but
being the best woman and wife you are able to be. Do not expect perfection from yourself but expect you will do your best at any given time.

Release all need to know.

Release all need to do anything but follow your own plan, using plan B as your guide. It is trustworthy and will do you well. As well as can be given the situation.
Originally Posted by reading
How about you disengage your thoughts. Work on it for now.
Neither consider whether you could ever reconsile nor whether he is not worth it.

Yes.... you are right, and I am going to do this!!!

Mehr - I am 100% behind you. I had an awful day as a mom. I was frustrated all day by the lack of respect my kids have for each other. I felt overwhelmed by their fighting.

Then I just got so mad at WH because I cannot believe I am abandoned to do this all on my own. It is hard not to have a pity party as a single.

I walked down my stairs and just said to GOD well this is it. I cannot complain. I just have to do it. I have no choice. I have to raise them. Do the best I can and accept I am doing this all on my own.

I think tonight I will call a girlfriend. Cry some ... Then go to bed and hopefully sleep peacefully.

I still wake up thinking I am in a dream. Can this be real?
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Mehr - I am 100% behind you. I had an awful day as a mom. I was frustrated all day by the lack of respect my kids have for each other. I felt overwhelmed by their fighting.

Then I just got so mad at WH because I cannot believe I am abandoned to do this all on my own. It is hard not to have a pity party as a single.

I walked down my stairs and just said to GOD well this is it. I cannot complain. I just have to do it. I have no choice. I have to raise them. Do the best I can and accept I am doing this all on my own.

I think tonight I will call a girlfriend. Cry some ... Then go to bed and hopefully sleep peacefully.

I still wake up thinking I am in a dream. Can this be real?

Are you still a stay at home mom? Getting out and into college has REALLY helped me with the kids. Now, my "break" from parenting is not when my husband is helping me... it is when I am at school and we are apart. It makes me so much happier to be with them when I am with them, my time is more focused with them because it is limited. Maybe you need something besides parenting to focus on?
Glad you got the money. Now it's time to focus on you.

As far as you're concerned, he DID drop off the face of the earth. crazy
I agree!!!

But one last factoid because its kind of a big deal to me and I forgot to mention it earlier....

We have always lived debt free, no credit cards, never argued about money..... I learned today that he has run up **3000** dollars in credit card debt since May.... remember he is sitting over there with his FULL INCOME....


Wowza!
That is quite a tidbit.

Good thing you are financially separating things....and should get first dibs on dough!
Mehr,

Glad you got the $, but still think now you should fire this attny.

Sorry, but usually judges are more amenable to having kids remain with the mom especially if they are of a "tender" age meaning younger than age five, esp if they are a baby.

This whole ruling is crap to me. I am not convinced your attny fought terribly hard for this. You can always appeal anything and when it comes to the divorce hearing, I would get a MEANER attny and request a change of judge. You can get that.

Did your attny EVEN MENTION the no overnight visitors of opposite sex? Did this get mentioned or even written into the separation agreement? Did a FAIR amount of cs even get mentioned or did the attny simply go on the BARE STATE MINIMUMS established for the provision of the kids???

Keep your focus on the legalities right now, and answer this question....did at least, the judge say that wh has to pay for your attny fees regarding todays' appearance?

If so, then I'd FIRE the attny and go get a new one, since you know that your attny fees will get covered in the future at the next hearing. And you need to make sure there is a NEXT one, where you present the character of the ow, you SUBPOENA the ow, you GET THE OW LEGAL BACKGROUND, you get her income and find out how much she is making vs. how much she is spending of YOUR family assets with your still legal husband.

These are valid questions. You also can get the no overnight visits of opposite sex written in if you get an attny worth their salt.

I harp on this because it happens daily and it works. In my case it was first line of defense of my child against the affair. The no overnight visitor was one way to keep the two ow away from my son overnights. Also, we obtained paychecks and stubs and other information from my bank which refuted the smaller income statements my xwh gave the courts and I got a bit more cs ordered. Even a teeny bit of ss was ordered to me also, despite my having a good college degree.

So yea, a really tough attny is what is needed right now. Custody is THE MAIN THING. And that is a battle that is never, ever ever given up. It is a battle again for another day, and sadly, i think you need a new legal warrior at your side.
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Mehr,

Glad you got the $, but still think now you should fire this attny.

This is my second attorney.

Quote
Sorry, but usually judges are more amenable to having kids remain with the mom especially if they are of a "tender" age meaning younger than age five, esp if they are a baby.

The 1yo will come back to me at night.

Quote
Did your attny EVEN MENTION the no overnight visitors of opposite sex? Did this get mentioned or even written into the separation agreement?
I mentioned it. They said no.

Quote
Did a FAIR amount of cs even get mentioned or did the attny simply go on the BARE STATE MINIMUMS established for the provision of the kids???

I got more than I originally thought I would. He just doesn't make enough for me to get more, I hope our final amount is as good as this one.


Quote
did at least, the judge say that wh has to pay for your attny fees regarding todays' appearance?

No, I don't know how you do that. Most people pay for their own attorney in a divorce case.

But seriously, I've had enough. I can't take getting beat up about this anymore, I am going to take my mind off the affair and just live my life. If that means they win, so be it. I can't take any more.
They are not going to 'win'.

No matter what happens down the line.....your WH already lost.

Lost his integrity/honor, family intact, marriage with the one woman who stands the best chance at working towards a truly deep, fulfilling and happy marriage with him.

I like your statement that you are just going to live your life. Yes!
Originally Posted by reading
They are not going to 'win'.

No matter what happens down the line.....your WH already lost.

Lost his integrity/honor, family intact, marriage with the one woman who stands the best chance at working towards a truly deep, fulfilling and happy marriage with him.

I like your statement that you are just going to live your life. Yes!

I agree with all of that!

Apparently he IS trying to cake eat now. Today when dropping off the 1yo he tried to TALK TO ME at the door. I just smiled and shut the door. I am okay though. He's getting more insistant on trying to cake eat too, he sent a text message the other day that I ignored. No, I still don't have him on block, because we still share a cell phone plan with my in laws and you can't block someone on your own plan. Yes, I need to get another cell phone. I was just sort of floating along with the free cell phone while it lasted....

Anyway, whatever. Tonight is Battlestar Gallactica marathon night. Nurse baby, watch TV, fold a little laundry. I had a good day without the kids, I went out with a friend for fajitas, went to the library and got some books I like......
Mehr - I am finding the Child support may be the biggest factor to bringing my WH home. When I counseled with Steve that was his thought as well.

My IM just received an email.

"IM please let Tough know I have absolutely no money for August. My next paycheck is coming at the end of August. I understand the CS check bounced for August, so I will try to make sure it doesn't for September. Do you think I can put the money I owe the bank on a credit card? I wish Tough would talk to me. I hate my job and I miss her friendship."

I asked my IM to leave off the last statement so I am not triggered by false hope.

My CS is hitting him hard. His OW is expensive. I am just working on me now. I have to put him out of my mind. Each day is getting better.

WH has the kids this weekend as well. I am going to bed early, so I can get up and powerwalk in the morning.

Tough~
Try your best to stay DARK because these "little" things add up and soon enough, POOF your LB is EMPTY. Believe me, when it is empty, you are DONE. That is the biggest obstacle that your recovery has right now, you may not want to recover by the time your WH comes to his senses.

So......what books did you get?
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Mehr - I am finding the Child support may be the biggest factor to bringing my WH home. When I counseled with Steve that was his thought as well.

My IM just received an email.

"IM please let Tough know I have absolutely no money for August. My next paycheck is coming at the end of August. I understand the CS check bounced for August, so I will try to make sure it doesn't for September. Do you think I can put the money I owe the bank on a credit card? I wish Tough would talk to me. I hate my job and I miss her friendship."

I asked my IM to leave off the last statement so I am not triggered by false hope.

My CS is hitting him hard. His OW is expensive. I am just working on me now. I have to put him out of my mind. Each day is getting better.

WH has the kids this weekend as well. I am going to bed early, so I can get up and powerwalk in the morning.

Tough~

Your IM actually should have sent you pretty much NONE of that. See, if I were that IM, I would have probably only told you this, "Tough, WH will be getting his paycheck at the end of August." That would have been IT. See, the rest of it is bad too. You don't need to know about ANY of that. All you need to know is WHEN you are getting the money.
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Mehr - I am finding the Child support may be the biggest factor to bringing my WH home. When I counseled with Steve that was his thought as well.

My IM just received an email.

"IM please let Tough know I have absolutely no money for August. My next paycheck is coming at the end of August. I understand the CS check bounced for August, so I will try to make sure it doesn't for September. Do you think I can put the money I owe the bank on a credit card? I wish Tough would talk to me. I hate my job and I miss her friendship."

I asked my IM to leave off the last statement so I am not triggered by false hope.

My CS is hitting him hard. His OW is expensive. I am just working on me now. I have to put him out of my mind. Each day is getting better.

WH has the kids this weekend as well. I am going to bed early, so I can get up and powerwalk in the morning.

Tough~

My CS comes directly from his paycheck before he gets it, starting on the 25th. SO I don't have to worry about how much money he has. Wooo!

Originally Posted by Scotland
Try your best to stay DARK because these "little" things add up and soon enough, POOF your LB is EMPTY. Believe me, when it is empty, you are DONE. That is the biggest obstacle that your recovery has right now, you may not want to recover by the time your WH comes to his senses.

So......what books did you get?

That could happen... and recovery is so hard (I hear, and I am beginning to understand as I come out of the MUST SAVE THIS fog).

I think this time I will have my IM remind Foghead that I do not want to speak to him/text until he has ended the affair and moved in with his parents.

I got a couple biographies.... one is Mary, Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley.... I am on a history biography kick! I love to read.

My son starts his new school Monday, and I will spend 2 days rearranging the furniture in my house, then I start training for my part time job, and I start full time college the week after that. I am plenty busy for a good Plan B. smile
Being busy really DOES help. It was always those down times that I would have time to think about my WH and think about what happened.

I know that I started to become a comedy junky. I wold watch or read it whenever I could. It is important to learn how to laugh again. It really does help.

By the way.... I've now run my budget, and I am getting enough from Foghead that I don't even HAVE TO work... that's going to be gravy money, and I will save money in case I get less in the final settlement. And this job is at my college only during the week days b/w classes so it doesn't even take time from my kids. I am so blessed!
I am glad that some things are looking UP for you. It should be easier for you to keep dark. Remember, you would be suffering A LOT less if you were able to be darker.

I know that you don't feel like these small contacts effect you. I even saw you write on that other thread that you don't think that the contact sets you back to day 1, but I am here to tell you that it does worse than that. It makes you believe that you will be okay with a little more contact. And before you know it, you are back to full blown contact. You will be back in the drama again.

Stop focusing on if your WH is a cake eater, it is NOT a good thing. You don't want him to want you BOTH, you want him to become the man you need him to be and want ONLY YOU. OW was okay with him wanting both, don't stoop to her level.

I don't want to discourage you, I want only the best for you. You are doing GREAT things, I just know how much better it could be, and you are getting in the way.
Originally Posted by Scotland
OW was okay with him wanting both, don't stoop to her level.

No she wasn't, she had no idea he wanted both.

I am discouraged about the drop off situation. I just want the kids dropped off so when I get home, I am home. I guess I could ask to pick them up at my in laws, but it annoys me so to have to get back in my van and drive over there and load them all up (with small kids is a PITB). I will really think about picking them up. Tomorrow my family will be here so they can answer the door and get kids in.
Um, how do I stop obsessing about whether or not he wants to cake eat :P

Curse this kid-free night...
You stop obsessing about cake eating, by STOPPING.

Like I said, cake eating ISN'T good. You don't want someone who is a cake eater because he will always be looking for cake.

And you are wrong about the OW, because she knew he was married but still had an A. She knew you were in the picture. She convinced herself that he was telling her the truth, that he didn't want you, but he was still there. She was accepting crumbs. You don't want crumbs, you're worth more than that.

See, I saw a bit of a pattern here. Whenever someone talked about how your WH was showing signs of eating cake, you would break Plan B. DON'T DO THAT. Nothing you do is going to get him to come back. Nothing you don't do is going to get him to come back. It's not about you. It's never been about you.

Now, you need to just focus on YOU and YOUR PLAN.
Cake eating is NOT anything to get excited about seriously. My xwh wanted that for TWO YEARS POST DIVORCE. He was perfectly fine with us getting a divorce, and perfectly fine remarrying the other woman within 2 days of our divorce.

So it is not an honor he wants to eat cake.

when you worry about him and his "cake eating" you do break plan B.

Back to the attorney fees, I had EVERY PENNY of mine paid for. Many of my divorced girlfriends (all but 1) had their attny fees paid for. YOU ASK FOR IT in the petition, even your attny should have told you that. That's why I am worried about the attny you got.

And WHO exactly said they would not do the "no overnight visits" clause? Who said exactly they would not add it in? Again, you tell you attny what to do and they ADD IT IN to the petition. You mediate for that. If your own attny, whom YOU hired wouldn't do that, then that's a problem.

But if you're fine w/things, then ok with that. I just knew my attny IMMEDIATELY asked for all fees to be paid BY THE WAYWARD HUSBAND, the one who caused the divorce and had the affair, and that we added in that clause and got only a little bit of rumblings of negativity from my xwh and his attorney. The judge gave it to me (all attny fees) EVERY SINGLE TIME I went into court against him and it was several times. I paid only my attny retainer. That was all.

No need to even respond to what I wrote, but this is how it works in my state and in our neighboring states and how it worked for about everyone I know who is divorced.

I just wanted to make sure you did not deliberately go EASY on the wayward legally because you might have been afraid that taking a hard line on legalities might push him further away. I HAVE seen this happen over and over again though, sadly for the betrayed spouses. It doesn't work well taking that approach.

Stick to plan B and keep that as your plan. It will help emotionally. Focus on other things. Your new job, college, the kids, and read lots of books. That kept me very busy during the interim time of separation.

Wish you the best.
Originally Posted by peachyisback
I just wanted to make sure you did not deliberately go EASY on the wayward legally because you might have been afraid that taking a hard line on legalities might push him further away. I HAVE seen this happen over and over again though, sadly for the betrayed spouses. It doesn't work well taking that approach.

I assure you that is not the case. I would take him for everything and his clothes and leave him naked in the street, if the law would allow me. I want him as uncomfortable as possible.

Its not the cake eating talk that gets me to break it, its when he is trying to cake eat. I mean its not YOU.... its HIM.... and I know you are right, nothing I do or don't do will fix this.

I will ask about the attorney fees next time I hear from my lawyer. I hope it won't be for a while, I'd love this to just get set aside, but maybe WH is going to force it through.
It is REALLY upsetting when the kids get back from visiting him. My kids are very little and things come out that they did, and its SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO maddening that my kids go fishing with MY HUSBAND and HER.... all the time we could be having family time and instead my life is this, a divided family.
Yes. Yuck to the kids being with Dad and hEr. Yuck. Just yuck.
Do the best you can with that horror.
You will find a way to cope with time.
Yuck (again for it).
I am just so angry tonight!!! I hate visitation, I wish he would drop off the face of the earth. I have to tolerate him for the rest of my life because I had kids with him. I wish I had never had kids with him so I could just be rid of him forever.

When the kids come back from visitation, they scream and freak out, have a hard time readjusting. I get the hard job, he gets the good side of them and i get all the Big Feelings. I get told stuff like "I miss daddy now because he doesn't get me in trouble when I bite people."

I am so mad that he gets to just "visit" and dump everything on me, and I can't even be rid of him for good like I want to. Truly, I don't think that my breaks in Plan B are what's going to nail the coffin, its going to be the kids and visitation thing. What he is doing to OUR KIDS and rubbing the other woman and making it all out like it is some kind of a FUN TIME!!!!!!!!! It makes me so angry and hateful.

And the only thing I have to look forward to is him getting more visitation as they get older.
Originally Posted by mehr
.When the kids come back from visitation, they scream and freak out, have a hard time readjusting. I get the hard job, he gets the good side of them and i get all the Big Feelings. I get told stuff like "I miss daddy now because he doesn't get me in trouble when I bite people."

I am so mad that he gets to just "visit" and dump everything on me, and I can't even be rid of him for good like I want to. Truly, I don't think that my breaks in Plan B are what's going to nail the coffin, its going to be the kids and visitation thing. What he is doing to OUR KIDS and rubbing the other woman and making it all out like it is some kind of a FUN TIME!!!!!!!!! It makes me so angry and hateful.

And the only thing I have to look forward to is him getting more visitation as they get older.

Reminds me of the "Mean Mother" poem that goes around on the net. I will copt it hear if you haven't seen it.

___________________

"The Meanest Mother"

I had the meanest mother in the whole world. While other kids ate
candy for breakfast, I had to have cereal, eggs or toast. When others
had cokes and candy for lunch, I had to eat a sandwich. As you can
guess, my supper was different than the other kids' also.
But at least, I wasn't alone in my sufferings. My sister and two
brothers had the same mean mother as I did.
My mother insisted upon knowing where we were at all times. You'd
think we were on a chain gang. She had to know who our friends were and
where we were going. She insisted if we said we'd be gone an hour, that
we be gone one hour or less--not one hour and one minute. I am nearly
ashamed to admit it, but she actually struck us. Not once, but each
time we had a mind of our own and did as we pleased. That poor belt was
used more on our seats than it was to hold up Daddy's pants. Can you
imagine someone actualy hitting a child just because he disobeyed? Now
you can begin to see how mean she really was.
We had to wear clean clothes and take a bath. The other kids always
wore their clothes for days. We reached the height of insults because
she made our clothes herself, just to save money. Why, oh why, did we
have to have a mother who made us feel different from our friends?
The worst is yet to come. We had to be in bed by nine each night
and up at eight the next morning. We couldn't sleep till noon like our
friends. So while they slept-my mother actually had the nerve to break
the child-labor law. She made us work. We had to wash dishes, make
beds, learn to cook and all sorts of cruel things. I believe she laid
awake at night thinking up mean things to do to us.
She always insisted upon us telling the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, even if it killed us- and it nearly did.
By the time we were teen-agers, she was much wiser, and our life
became even more unbearable. None of this tooting the horn of a car for
us to come running. She embarrassed us to no end by making our dates
and friends come to the door to get us. If I spent the night with a
girlfriend, can you imagine she checked on me to see if I were really
there. I never had the chance to elope to Mexico. That is if I'd had a
boyfriend to elope with. I forgot to mention, while my friends were
dating at the mature age of 12 and 13, my old fashioned mother refused
to let me date until the age of 15 and 16. Fifteen, that is, if you
dated only to go to a school function. And that was maybe twice a year.

Through the years, things didn't improve a bit. We could not lie
in bed, "sick" like our friends did, and miss school. If our friends
had a toe ache, a hang nail or serious ailment, they could stay home
from school. Our marks in school had to be up to par. Our friends'
report cards had beautiful colors on them, black for passing, red for
failing. My mother being as different as she was, would settle for
nothing less than ugly black marks.
As the years rolled by, first one and then the other of us was put
to shame. We were graduated from high school. With our mother behind
us, talking, hitting and demanding respect, none of us was allowed the
pleasure of being a drop-out.
My mother was a complete failure as a mother. Out of four
children, a couple of us attained some higher education. None of us
have ever been arrested, divorced or beaten his mate. Each of my
brothers served his time in the service of this country. And whom do we
have to blame for the terrible way we turned out? You're right, our
mean mother. Look at the things we missed. We never got to march in a
protest parade, nor to take part in a riot, burn draft cards, and a
million and one other things that our friends did.
She forced us to grow up into God-fearing, educated, honest adults.
Using this as a background, I am trying to raise my three
children. I stand a little taller and I am filled with pride when my
children call me mean.
Because, you see, I thank God, He gave me the meanest mother in
the whole world.

written by Bobbie Pingaro (1967)

_______________________

You have a right to be Mad, especcially if he is playing "Nice Dad" and letting them run wild, and you are doing the real job of loving them and teaching them responsibility. When they are kids you are so mean, but when they get older they will understand that you were teaching and preparing them for life.

Some things they might not realize until they are 30, but the facts that you told them, will help to solidify good habits and descisions and by then, they will see who WH was, and how misleading being "Good Dad" was.

I still have troubles with my kids, because for years I would let it all be on my shoulders, to give my wife the chance to come to them someday, and say."Well when you were younger I did this and that, and that is why this and that happened, and it wasn't all your Fathers fault, that we struggled like we did. Thats a gamble I took, and a cross I bore, so my children would have a stable home while young. I sacrificed some of thier trust for them not having to deal with all the issues and drama of our problems. When they got older they figured it out, and I explained when nessesary, but they still don't completly get it, esspecially my daughter, my Sons do fine.

My daughter idolized my wife, because at one time, she was an awesome woman, crap i still love that woman, and she has been gone two years after years of crap that brought her to her grave, after she lost it. There is the problem though, DD got used to blaming Dad, and now she still does sometimes, because she was used to it. Its like she is still sticking up for Mom, when if I had brought out the truth when they were young, I would have crucified thier Mom, and who would have suffered the most? The children. No I manned up and took it, for the kids, and they might never see that I did it for my wife also, to break the line of the curse her family had laid at her feet for her children.

You can do it Mehr, and it will be for you that you will take it for your children. Yes you have the honor of teaching them how to live in the world, and he plays "fun dad" in fantasyland. They will realize what is the tough part of love when they get older, and will be stronger for it. Its for thier protection, even if they don't realize it now, or ever give you credit.

Like I said it is for you, and your conscience will be clean, that you lived well and taught your children, and as thier ages change, and they become more aware, you will be able to explain what happened in bits and peices as they can understand. They will learn to trust you and come to you for the harder questions in life, when they realize what they are, because you live in the real world, where people are important, not used for fantasys

But, you are going to have to deal with visitation either way, so making excuses as to why you break Plan B and why it's okay, is NOT okay with me.

I was only trying to help you by pointing out what you can do. We here are not "yes" men/women. When I see something that can be improved, I tell you. If I see a way that you are hurting yourself, I am going to tell you. The visitations will get easier. The fact that they "hang out" with OW, well a year and a half later, I can tell you it isn't any nicer to hear. It is nice that the kids don't like OW though, and that had NOTHING to do with me. I told them the truth, and that's it.
I am not making excuses for breaking Plan B.

What I said is visitation stinks, I hate it for my kids and I hate it for me, and every time they go and come back it drains my love more. I feel myself getting angry at the pain he puts me and the kids through.
Mehr,

The reason I keep poking you to make that attny do what YOU TELL HIM /HER TO DO is because none of this will stop until you 1)get full custody of the kids 2)find out with PI what is really going on with the ow and who she is and what is in her seedy past to use against her in court and 3)you make the attny do what YOU SAY to do, not what the attny does.

When you get mostly full custody you don't hear as much about what goes on in the rutting lair. You detach easier. You just do.

Not only is it BETTER for the kids and healthier to live with the responsible and good parent, but they will thank you as they age. My son has. He is SO glad I went to bat for him each time I did in court and that I pressed until I was awarded sole custody with ZERO visitation to my x unless I say it is ok and is with supervision. So I say no.

it is NOT ok that your wh is letting the kids do what they want. That's being a "disneyland dad" basically. My xwh was that, but when my little boy would assert his own feelings or wants or needs, or did something counter to what my selfish and entitled xwh wanted, he would rage at my son. Odds are your wh will treat the kids the same.

All is fine with the "disneyland dad or mom" until the kids show their OWN wishes or desires and it at some point will go against the wishes and wills of the wayward. That's when the kids btw, will see thru the facade of lies that the wayward weaves with their posom or skank ho.

But all of this CAN stop if you make that attny do what you say. That means exert force. That means you get that PI, you make the attny do some hard work and you make the attny work like mad to achieve full custody for you. There is also a tender age clause in many states, that says kids under 5 should BE WITH THEIR MOM OR PRIMARY CAREGIVER for a number of years.

Has your attny heard of that at all? It is common and we used the heck out of it. I think my attny had so many tricks up his sleeve, he made Matlock and the magician Kriss Angel look like amateurs. And he had to be that way, b/c my xwh was a street-wise ceo of a company with money to burn on the best legal help.

The best way out of this, is to pursue a hard-line approach with the wayward. If you give them an inch, they take ten miles. So don't. You punch hard and punch first and repeat.

Just know how you feel and know that the way out of this is to 1)do as Scotty says and STOP breaking plan B and 2)minimize as much as possible any time the kids have to be around the crazy wayward and his skank ho. That means TAKE ALL LEGAL means to secure full custody. 3)DRIVE the divorce. YOU drive it. YOU tell the attny what YOU want, after all your attorney works for you. YOU do not work for them.

And heck yes ask for all attny fees! And tell that attny you want a PI investigating that skank ho and what is really going on.

My lawyer (who was awesome) had a great quote. He told me that I of course, had to give my permission to get the PI to investigate both ow. Why? He told me that "if they are brazen enough women to go after a married man with a child, then they have zero morals and probably have some sort of criminal past or serious run in with the law at some time to be able to do such a thing."

I thought it was hogwash. But I did it. And lo and behold! He was right! The ow HAD a horrible past. One that ended up costing HER her custody of her own son from a past boyfriend. We even got testimony from him too, that she was a bad mom to their child. That along with the admission she had used illegal drugs in same home as her child pushed our legal case way in my favor. And how I beat a rich man.
Okay. I think the lawys must be different here and especially in my state. Here they do not take away visitation unless... well they just plain don't, even if the dad is a criminal.

Now about her background, I have done extensive searches online and couldn't find anything. I know you suggested going to the court houses way down in her county, but I am low on time and energy since I have so much to do (and I just started a new part time job today as well) and I can't afford a PI.... are there any reliable cheap places to get a background check online? Are those all scams or what?

Must go to bed, have to work again tomorrow...
Still wondering if there is a cheap way to get her background info. smile

Someone called me yesterday to say they are praying for my family. I was touched... God is faithful, and I am not forgotten.

Things look grim, but I am trying not to think about it. God knows what is going on and will work out all things for the good of the kids and I. It is a MAJOR battle inside my head to not let this take up too much brain space. I just keep pushing the thoughts out. I think I am one of my own worst enemies. I have the hardest time just letting go without moving on.
Mehr,

It's understandable, your situation is very tough....You are in God's hands and if your marriage is meant to be then it will be, you have to faith in all that is good.
This is up to your husband at this point.....
Stay dark, stay busy with your life and kids and just be still for now.........
Let God do his job..........
jessi
Mehr - I told my WH's OW that I will put a restraining order on her and subpoena her into court if she is around my kids. I told her I would put an FBI PI on her and find out about her drinking and driving.

My WH sent a message to the IM after I did this and was super pizzed. I spoke to my lawyer and she said I have every right to question her if she does drink profusely. I have every right to try and protect my kids from someone that is intentionally causing them harm.

I plan to put an RO on her if my eight year old comes home with any type of emotional stress from her. I will use that as a way to keep her from my kids. Intentional infliction of emotional distress.

I will find a way to RO the skanywho** - man I just hate her today!!!!
Originally Posted by jessitaylor
Mehr,

It's understandable, your situation is very tough....You are in God's hands and if your marriage is meant to be then it will be, you have to faith in all that is good.
This is up to your husband at this point.....
Stay dark, stay busy with your life and kids and just be still for now.........
Let God do his job..........
jessi

I will do.... I think this is what God wants me to do. I need to stop fretting and just be still. I have things to be thankful for. I just need to push all this out of my brain and grow strong again.
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Mehr - I told my WH's OW that I will put a restraining order on her and subpoena her into court if she is around my kids. I told her I would put an FBI PI on her and find out about her drinking and driving.

My WH sent a message to the IM after I did this and was super pizzed. I spoke to my lawyer and she said I have every right to question her if she does drink profusely. I have every right to try and protect my kids from someone that is intentionally causing them harm.

I plan to put an RO on her if my eight year old comes home with any type of emotional stress from her. I will use that as a way to keep her from my kids. Intentional infliction of emotional distress.

I will find a way to RO the skanywho** - man I just hate her today!!!!

Fight in any ways you have available. I certainly would do this if I could. I think what bothers me the most is that people here at MB do not seem to believe me that there is no way to keep her away from my kids. frown

I will fight in ways I have available, and I will learn to be still when I cannot.
Intelius is probably your best cheap resource. You can also just call a PI or two and see what they would charge to pull a background.

As to how you stop obsessing with the cake-eating, I have a few suggestions.

10. Wash your hair.
9. Give yourself a pedi.
8. Visit a nursing home.
7. Send an e-card to someone you haven't talked to for a while.
6. Draw a picture, even if you can't draw.
5. Sing a song, preferably something that will get stuck in your head.

4. Count your blessings. For now, limit yourself to blessings that have nothing to do with WH.
3. Take a bubble bath.
2. Either dress up for no reason, or dress down in cute pajamas, and then fix yourself something nice to eat.
1. Read your Bible.

I'm sure everyone else can come up with even more. The only limit is the edge of your imagination.
I am doing really well!!! School is just the distraction I need.

There is stupid stuff going on over here though, I need to call my lawyer.
No, Plan B wasn't broken. The stupid stuff involves that there is now 2 single women and 7 children living with my husband. 7 children not including HIS...

In a 3 bedroom rental.

And DH missed my son's doctors appt today, the one thing he was supposed to do since d-day other than play disney dad.
Some state laws require children of a certain age must have their own bedrooms. Please ask your lawyer to check this for you. Virginia requires that after the age of five.

To give you some good news Mehr - The POSOW dumped my WH yesterday. He is a mess. Staying dark to determine next action.

Tough
Awww, that's good. Where is your thread? She didn't sound all that committed to him to start.

I am not sure I really want him back anymore. He is so trashy now, he's joined her forest.
Hi mehr, I would not focus on wanting him back or not....as things are now he sure has no intention of R the M.
Focus on you and loving you.
Blessing
Yes, I really am doing well! I hardly think about him.... it barely even enters in my head now. But when it does, like right now, I just think, what a trashy being. But yeah, who knows. I like my job, I like college,.... good times.
Mehr, you are so young and you like to study and that is a life saver. Focus on getting an education. That will never betray you and will give you financial independence and self confidence, plus it will show others how smart and focused you are!!!
Your WH is a loser and there is nothing to miss so far. His choice of ow makes it clear what his values turned out to be. Till he shows you otherwise he deserves nothing frm you.
You are so much better than he can ever be,
Blessing
Originally Posted by mehr
Yes, I really am doing well! I hardly think about him.... it barely even enters in my head now. But when it does, like right now, I just think, what a trashy being. But yeah, who knows. I like my job, I like college,.... good times.

YOU are another MB success story !

hurray
SO.... it is official now.... I am filing for sole LEGAL and physical custody.... I already have physical, but I want to make all the decisions about their education and stuff, if I can win it... which is difficult to do here. But he doesn't care about their welfare at all.
Can I ask you what you mean about your WH missing a doctor's appt? Was he supposed to take him and he didn't?

You are sounding much better, and I believe that to be because you are doing your best to stay dark. Keep it up. darker you are, the better you will feel. Also, the distractions will help with your thought processes. Great work.
hurray Hear, hear!

The BIGGEST reason not to even worry one way or the other at this point, as to whether you want him back or not is:


From where you are now, you have no idea who he will be. There's no magic wand that will tell any of us what he's going to be after the A is over.

Wait and see. Till then, go to school, bake cookies for the kiddoes, and live a GREAT life!!! Oh wait, you already are... grin
Originally Posted by Scotland
Can I ask you what you mean about your WH missing a doctor's appt? Was he supposed to take him and he didn't?

You are sounding much better, and I believe that to be because you are doing your best to stay dark. Keep it up. darker you are, the better you will feel. Also, the distractions will help with your thought processes. Great work.

Yes I scheduled a school physical for my older (required) back in early July and I had to sweet talk just to get it this soon, its the ONLY parenting thing I have asked of him since he abandoned his family, and I didn't even really need his help except that it fell on his day to pick up the kids from school.... so what does he do? He shows up so late to the appt they wouldn't even see him. What an idiot. Oh and of course he brought his mistress to this too. Who cares if you are late if you brought the home wrecker. TBH, I still say if this divorce goes through I don't care about waiting for him anymore. If he then comes to realization and I am single, fine, but if he is too late.... too bad.
I want to add that I do feel much better. The most triggering thing that has happened recently was yesterday morning when he shows up in my driveway to drop off my son's booster from his fild trip at school (which he forgot and we had to wait to go on the zoo trip until he got there, again, he is an idiot) I didn't see him but my parents tell me that SHE was there. I know, they shouldn't have told me, but they don't get it. Anyway he was in my driveway with the affair partner... like he is entitled.... it took me over an hour to feel better.
I suppose that's a step up from seeing him/them yourself...

Document the missed appointment, and other than that, don't stress it. Next time you'll know what your days are and schedule it for then, and document that, too.

You can try, but you can't actually make your parents get it. Perhaps if they knew how badly the knowledge hurts you, and impedes your healing, they would be more thoughtful? If not, whenever possible have a more impartial friend or relative to assist in exchanges.

You're doing really well. hug
Mehr - I can see your stength through my computer screen. I just wanted to let you know I am here with you. I am fully behind you and your kiddos.

I pray for you, and I know 100% without a doubt you and I have great things coming to us from GOD. He will bless us with things we cannot even imagine today.

Stay tough and know we are here with your back and many prayers!!!

GOD Bless

Tough~
And......have IM request he buy his own car seats! No dropping them off for years and years and years.

Even spouses who are still together get seperate ones for their cars.

They are cheap at Walmart but.......your WH can figure out how to get some on his own.

If he has his own and was returning yours from the field trip.....next time tell the teacher/parents driving to send it with someone else, other than WH.
Reading took the suggestion right outta my mouth.

I heard a couple of things about WH and WF today too. Dust off and keep moving forward. And WF comes almost every time that WH drops and picks up DSx2. I find out from my kiddos. Sucks, but what can I do? I did say one time, to my mom and sister, that WH should drop her off at the corner, since that's where she belongs. It was a little venting.

And even better is that WSs don't even see how that could be wrong. They don't think anything of it. TURDS. laugh
He already has his own carseats, this one was because of the field trip.

He has grossly inappropriately matched carseats that are dangerous, but he has carseats.
hurray on him having some.

Boo on them being less than you would want them to be. That sucks but isn't surprising.
No, why would he care one bit about the kids.
I don't want him back. I am disgusted at the very thought of him. I can't wait until the divorce is through and I hope he has the smallest interaction in my life as possible. I haven't seen him or heard from him in weeks, but that's just how I feel. He is just trashy, just like her, and they deserve each other. I deserve someone better and there are a lot of fish in the sea.
Glad that you have that self respect mehr
All I can say is regardless of your moment to moment feelings, stick to Plan B. You could very easily swing to the other side and cry because he's not home.

Was there something that set these feelings off today? Where have your thoughts been recently? Hang tough. It's a long road, but one most definitely worth traveling.
I am sticking to Plan B because I have no desire to ever have contact with him....

I have been feeling really good about my life without him, and realizing that all is not lost just because he is gone.
I am so glad to hear this. I am happy for you. See what some much needed time in a dark plan B can do for you. How has school been? And more importantly, what colour are your toes? laugh
Good to hear from you mehr!

Originally Posted by Scotland
How has school been? And more importantly, what colour are your toes? laugh
rotflmao think rotflmao weightlifter

Good one Scotty, LMAO
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Originally Posted by Scotland
How has school been? And more importantly, what colour are your toes? laugh
rotflmao think rotflmao weightlifter

Good one Scotty, LMAO

Mine are pink and Mehr's are black and blue from kicking some butt ...ok imaginary
Mehr - Good to hear from you. I am right here with you today. I am turning that corner and welcoming divorce.

I am so proud of you. How is nursing school? I hope the courses are going well.

I think of you often and your four babies.

All my prayers and hugs!!! Tough~
Oh, dear. My toes are one pink and the rest nekkid. blush I know it doesn't matter that I'm wearing tennies, there is NO EXCUSE for such sloppiness!
How are you?
Hi Mehr,

Any updates? Hope you are doing ok!

ba




Thinking of you and your little ones!
Thinking of you and hoping you are well for Christmas!
Hi tough! I heard you on the radio show but I couldn't find your thread to comment. You are amazing and so strong. Your kids are lucky to have you fighting so hard to keep the family together. You can definitely say you have tried EVERYTHING! Best wishes this holiday season! Mehr, blessings to your family as well.
Ahh, I found my old thread. Its been a long time since I've been here, so let me recap. I am 32. My exhusband is 34. The other woman.... I lost track. 26 now? Here is what was in my signature:

EA Starts Nov/Dec 2010... PA Feb/Mar 2011
3/7/11 D-day. WH moved out. Plan A began.
4/10/11 Says he wants to be with us, writes NC letter, shuts down facebook, changes phone numbers, moves home. Didn't quit job where she worked.
4/14/11 WH couldn't make it through withdrawl and returned to her, Plan B begins
6/11 WH files for divorce in response to my request for legal separation and support.


In addition, after pressure from here, I informed his work of the affair. They demoted him shortly after when he made a mistake at work, I suspect the lack of respect is related. As a result when we went to court this year, I had my child support reduced by 1/3 because of his income reduction, despite the fact that he's been promoted again since. So.... wish I hadn't done that. It didn't change their relationship, and I am now deep in poverty with 4 children.

I also did Plan B from 4/14/11 until that following fall.

I went to counseling until I moved too far away.

I moved out of our family home and into town December 2011 after getting into the nursing program. He promptly moved into our family home with her and her kids. They have lived together for coming up on 2 years now. He is a 'daddy' to her 3 kids. He is barely a daddy to our 4 kids.

I stopped Plan B when I gave up. We don't really talk though, only necessary text about children and drop off. He is very rude to me through text, all the time. I suspect she has something to do with that because when we talk in person he is nice.

So... this is the update.

Is there any hope they may yet break up? I am majorly bummed about this since this means someday she'll be at my kids' weddings. Where did we ever get those statistics about how rarely those relationships make it? It seems like all the ones I know do make it. Now he is a 'daddy' to her kids so she has no reason to dump him. And he hinged everything on his relationship with her-- he'd look stupid to break up with her now. She also gets the vast majority of his money and our family home.

P.S. I don't want him back. I just want her gone and for him to find someone else.
Originally Posted by mehr
Ah
In addition, after pressure from here, I informed his work of the affair. They demoted him shortly after when he made a mistake at work, I suspect the lack of respect is related. As a result when we went to court this year, I had my child support reduced by 1/3 because of his income reduction, despite the fact that he's been promoted again since.

They demoted him and then promoted him later on? That sounds off.

Can you have your child support revisited?

(((hugs)))
Originally Posted by mehr
Is there any hope they may yet break up? I am majorly bummed about this since this means someday she'll be at my kids' weddings. Where did we ever get those statistics about how rarely those relationships make it? It seems like all the ones I know do make it.

Hi mehr, so sorry to hear this update. frown The statistics we gave you are accurate. 95% of affairs die within 2 years and never make it to marriage. Hopefully, this affair will eventually die. My XH is still with his OW after 14 years, so his affair is one of the very few that ever make it. Your H will eventually tire of the OW and find a new one probably.

As far as your child support, you should take him back to court pronto and get more money!
I thought that it was 3 years? The main reason being I remember a poster returning almost 3 years to the day after cutting of contact with his XWW, and he came back because she was suddenly begging contact with him?

Additionally - if Mehr has an open door of contact, even his rude little comments in addition to being "nice" while being allowed to have face-to-face contact is going to feed support to the affair. Either by virtue of a small amount of need meeting, or through his self-invented justifications to continue the affair.

Mehr - the man wrecked your marriage and family, the only sensible recourse is a life-long pitch-black plan B.

In short, he can go Firetruck himself.
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
I thought that it was 3 years? The main reason being I remember a poster returning almost 3 years to the day after cutting of contact with his XWW, and he came back because she was suddenly begging contact with him?

The average is 2 years.
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.
here

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
The only reason that I encourage a betrayed spouse to stick it out for 2 years after an affair is that 95% of them die a natural death by that time, and when that happens the fog lifts and the unfaithful spouse sees the light of day. But there's the 5% that don't, and end up marrying the lover. Only 30% of those marriages survive, but by that time so much damage has been done that reconciliation is unrealistic.
here

Quote
Additionally - if Mehr has an open door of contact, even his rude little comments in addition to being "nice" while being allowed to have face-to-face contact is going to feed support to the affair. Either by virtue of a small amount of need meeting, or through his self-invented justifications to continue the affair.

Mehr - the man wrecked your marriage and family, the only sensible recourse is a life-long pitch-black plan B.

AGree..

Quote
In short, he can go Firetruck himself.

Agree 1000%!! grin
Thank you for the update.

I am so sorry you have sacrificed so much in the demise of your marriage.

You did more than many wives in our society to protect and save it. You may feel that it was not worth it but you can be assured that you were a 'keeper' and your ex blew it. He blew it and part of him knows it.

You will never know his inner thoughts. Yes, it seems he is living the life with OW and her kids in your once family home BUT I will bet you that over the coming passing of time, it will turn out that it was a sad and pitiful attempt to recapture a tiny bit of the magic he once had with you.

May you do well in the future and look back on this time in your life as a crucial time of finding your true and powerful self.

You and the kids....may you all do well and have joy and have financial peace in life.
Mehr,
I remember your story as it so closely resembled mine. My WH never came back either and his affair started three years ago as well. He is barely a father to my two boys and only sees them 4 days a month. The OW has no kids so he is living large with no responsiblities as a parent. I want them to break up too...and find someone else. It is the fact it is HER, the OW that broke up your family.
My WH also filed. Go back to court and revisit child support.
You can seek a modification of your child support if his income has increased. Check with your local county court or online resources for your state laws. What is supposed to happen to the marital home per your divorce decree?

Quote
he'd look stupid to break up with her now.

That is a lovely sentiment for why a guy would want to stay with his ho...sounds blissful. flirt wink

Sorry for your hurt. Your ex is a moron.
Originally Posted by black_raven
You can seek a modification of your child support if his income has increased. Check with your local county court or online resources for your state laws. What is supposed to happen to the marital home per your divorce decree?

Quote
he'd look stupid to break up with her now.

That is a lovely sentiment for why a guy would want to stay with his ho...sounds blissful. flirt wink

Sorry for your hurt. Your ex is a moron.

X2
X3
I am in the current, rather strange, position of attempting to give some guidance to a woman who is now in affairage, and I would like to share with you what it's really like. It's probably not everyone's situation, but I believe it's a pretty typical scenario.

She is someone my daughter knows from church. Our "talks" have been through email, because we live a few states away. We started up our discussion last week. Her mother died when she was 12 and her father lives with his girlfriend on an opposite coast. She's a very pretty young woman who became friends with her now-husband while he was married. That's how it started.

She and her boyfriend started living together a few years ago. She became pregnant shortly thereafter. The little girl is now three. The young woman began attending church and started to examine her situation and felt pretty awful. So in July, she decided she didn't want to live in sin any longer and pressed for marriage, and the "I do's" happened.

The man cheated on his exwife numerous times and doesn't earn a living other than sporadically selling some things at auctions. He has gained 60 pounds since they started living together. She earns the money and cleans the house. She hates being with him, because he is so "selfish, lazy, and inconsiderate."

So I have been advising her as best as I could, trying to think of how Dr. Harley might respond in his respectful logical way of dealing with all the callers. I told her of the rather dismal prospects but suggested a Plan A and to prepare for a possible separation. His love bank balance in her love bank is already low.

She is seriously considering all I have told her and printed out the articles I linked for her. The reason she hates to leave? She feels stupid for having made such a gross mistake and that leaving is admitting it was a mistake. She feels bad about the affair and has nightmares about it now, but believed that they were in love and that since it was for love, it was okay to break up a marriage.

Being married to her affair partner made her feel more accepted, but this young woman is very very unhappy. Her husband sounds like a complete freeloader and does not believe in changing himself to meet her needs.

So....just saying, you don't really know what's going on in the private lives affairages. The ones who are lucky and have really made a go of the affairage often still regret their choice to leave for the AP, because it alienated their children and families.
Originally Posted by pokerface
Originally Posted by mehr
Ah
In addition, after pressure from here, I informed his work of the affair. They demoted him shortly after when he made a mistake at work, I suspect the lack of respect is related. As a result when we went to court this year, I had my child support reduced by 1/3 because of his income reduction, despite the fact that he's been promoted again since.

They demoted him and then promoted him later on? That sounds off.

Can you have your child support revisited?

(((hugs)))

Yes, they demoted him around October 2011. After working with the lower pay, he applied and got another higher paying position in May 2012. Because he made less money for the first half of this year, when we had our court date last month, his year to date income gave him a lower amount he had to pay. I can't get that changed any time soon because it is a recent change.
Originally Posted by black_raven
You can seek a modification of your child support if his income has increased. Check with your local county court or online resources for your state laws. What is supposed to happen to the marital home per your divorce decree?

He has to put it on the market on March 1 of this year. He is banking that it won't sell and he can get our equity by buying the house for what's left on the mortgage. I am banking that it will sell and we can split the profit. It could go either way.

They've done some landscaping there and have apparently made it their own and he wants to buy it and stay there. I think its really weird, the house that we picked out together and did specific upgrades on that fit my personality as the wife.
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Additionally - if Mehr has an open door of contact, even his rude little comments in addition to being "nice" while being allowed to have face-to-face contact is going to feed support to the affair. Either by virtue of a small amount of need meeting, or through his self-invented justifications to continue the affair.
a life-long
Mehr - the man wrecked your marriage and family, the only sensible recourse is pitch-black plan B.

To be honest, I don't really care if I am supporting their relationship at this point. I want them to break up, yes, but I don't want to have to do 3rd party contact my whole life. Its his problem if the only thing holding their relationship together is that he sees me twice a month at pick ups. We text when needed for pickup issues. He doesn't ask about the kids or keep up on things. We aren't friends, its all business.

See he wasn't one that cheated over and over. Just once. He was a decent guy, though I have no respect for him now. So it bums me out that she manages to steal a family man and have him raise her kids and they are happy happy. I hope he has some regret, somewhere, though I've never had a hint of it.

Something I do suspect is that most of the text messages are sent by her. It sounds like her syntax and not his. Just a side note.
Originally Posted by pokerface
Originally Posted by mehr
Ah
In addition, after pressure from here, I informed his work of the affair. They demoted him shortly after when he made a mistake at work, I suspect the lack of respect is related. As a result when we went to court this year, I had my child support reduced by 1/3 because of his income reduction, despite the fact that he's been promoted again since.

They demoted him and then promoted him later on? That sounds off.

Can you have your child support revisited?

(((hugs)))

My XH is still with his OW going on 4 years now. My best friend's XH married his OW and they have been married for 15 years now. My dh's XW is married to one of her OM for 2 years now....lived together for 3.

I am like you...I NEVER want my XH back but I really really really want him and OW broken up. I don't even care if he finds a new girlfriend/wife...just not this one. I too am not seeing the statistic in my own real life...but hey one can always hope.
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I too am not seeing the statistic in my own real life...but hey one can always hope.

The statistic is 95% of affairs fail within 2 years. That means 5% DON'T fail, so how are you not seeing that statistic? crazy
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I too am not seeing the statistic in my own real life...but hey one can always hope.

The statistic is 95% of affairs fail within 2 years. That means 5% DON'T fail, so how are you not seeing that statistic? crazy

In my own life, of the marriages that I know that have failed, more than 5% of waywards are still with their AP 2 years or longer after the affair began.
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
In my own life, of the marriages that I know that have failed, more than 5% of waywards are still with their AP 2 years or longer after the affair began.

But that is anecdotal evidence. It is not statistical evidence.
For example, in my house there are 100% Republicans. So would it be smart to say "I am not seeing the statistic of 50/50 Democrat to Republican?" My home does not represent the nation, but only a small, unrepresentative sample; ie: anecdotal evidence. Surely you can see the difference?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
For example, in my house there are 100% Republicans. So would it be smart to say "I am not seeing the statistic of 50/50 Democrat to Republican?" My home does not represent the nation, but only a small, unrepresentative sample; ie: anecdotal evidence. Surely you can see the difference?

Yes I do know the difference betweeen anecdotal and statistical.

Just saying of the first 10 marriages that came to my mind that I have personal knowledge of that failed due to infidelity, 8 waywards are still with their AP more than 2 years later.
Gotcha...
Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
The ones who are lucky and have really made a go of the affairage often still regret their choice to leave for the AP, because it alienated their children and families.

I came back just to read on this forum. I'm coming up on 2 years in less than a month. Its more than 2 years past the time he kept telling me he wanted to leave but that he would support me and the kids, and I didn't know why.

I just started a new job that's going to help with our finances. Its my first job actually in the health care field, which will really help me at graduation as I am in nursing school. I am looking forward to our future, but sometimes still feel haunted by the past.

I guess this is one of those days. My ex picked up the kids today. I put their coats on and sent them out with the bag and I stayed inside the house. Is that close enough to a Plan B?

Its pretty overwhelming to be a single mom to 4 kids. I have my calendar filled up with highlights on who needs to be where and when and whether the kids are going to after school care or whether I am picking them up.

WH really did lose his family when he left, and it hasn't gotten better. Their dad doesn't really come up around here, so I know he didn't hear it from me, but my 3 year old has recently learned the word 'hate.'

Today on the way out of the door to daddy's van my 3 year old resisted. "I hate daddy, I don't wanna go!" he said. I gave him a hug and said "I love you and I will miss you too, and I will be waiting until you come home in two days" and I bribed him with chocolate to head outside and I heard him talking on his way out the door, "I will come back... yeah.... I will come back..."

So sad. Sometimes the kids don't want to go, but they have to. Sadly I know ex thinks that I feed the kids all these ideas and that they don't come up with them on their own.
Originally Posted by mehr
Something I do suspect is that most of the text messages are sent by her. It sounds like her syntax and not his. Just a side note.

To update on this, I did find out she has been messaging me pretending to be him. One time I had to call and confirm something regarding the kids and he admitted it, and I said maybe it would be better if we just communicated over the phone when its necessary, which is barely ever, we got along fine in that conversation and everything was peachy.

The next day he tells me through text that he doesn't want to talk to me on the phone and we will either text or we will not speak.

Whatever. Its not like I am dying to talk to him either, but I hate it when she's sending me stupid messages like this:

me "I'll be at ds8's soccer game tomorrow, if you want to avoid taking a second trip to town I can take him then" (he had another event that night and I had offered to take him)

her, pretending to be him "okay my family will all be there"

me "your parents?"

her, pretending to be him, "no my family, [skanky] and the kids, not that its any of your business"

me "um ok..."

Next day at soccer game I exchange about 3 sentences with foghead. Foghead says "sorry don't know why she sent those messages"

o_O

Yes, I think I need to really think and revamp this communication thing. I thought texting was working when it comes to getting the kids where they need to be. He only sees them two weekends per month, never in between. That is the only time we communicate at all. But then I hate that he's telling me how and when I can communicate with him. Whaaaaat?

I shouldn't have asked "your parents?" that was my mistake. Live and learn...
Since you text, and talk on the phone with him, then no, you aren't in Plan B at all. Even if you see him at all, you wouldn't be considered in Plan B. ANY contact would be a breach in Plan B. It's really not the same thing to be doing what you are doing, and doing a proper Plan B.

Why aren't you in a full Plan B?
Why don't you have an IM?
Originally Posted by Scotland
Since you text, and talk on the phone with him, then no, you aren't in Plan B at all. Even if you see him at all, you wouldn't be considered in Plan B. ANY contact would be a breach in Plan B. It's really not the same thing to be doing what you are doing, and doing a proper Plan B.

Why aren't you in a full Plan B?

After plan A I started a full plan B in april 2011 with an intermediary as my best friend but eventually I got to where I didn't want him back and my personal healing was good too so I started doing it myself. I think that started in winter 2011/2012. My friend is very busy as am I and sometimes I need to get a message to him near instantly when were trading kids. So the intermediary was a bit problematic. So I stopped plan B.

I have no regrets about the time I did spend in plan B because it was huge in my personal healing. The situation with him stopped affecting my day to day. I learned that I could be a mom to these kids on my own. I started to hear my own inner voice and not the voice of who he said I was and who he probably still thinks I am.

I have recommended it to friends that have encountered a similar break up.

Anyway that's how that happened... I'm not sure where to go from here.
Just reading farther back, I've come a long way... But I am still imperfect. This is one of those gifts that keeps on giving. What I like about this place is the practical btdt. I'm still treading new water with everything and I come here in my weakest moments when I revisit my feelings or confusion about things. Just keep trying I guess... Kind of sick of having to deal with him but that's the problem with having kids and events.
You could get an IM and enter a full Plan B again. You can make it work, but you would need to be willing to stick to it. It definitely helps in the Personal Recovery.
Originally Posted by Scotland
You could get an IM and enter a full Plan B again. You can make it work, but you would need to be willing to stick to it. It definitely helps in the Personal Recovery.

I've been reading through and I broke plan B monthly. I didbt remember how often it was, i stink. Sigh.

I'm going to have to think about this. I don't even know how I would go about this... I don't know who could intermediate or how it could be done. I need to figure out what the need to know information is and how it could be communicated in the best way for both kids and I.

My ex likes to give a lot of ultimatums like the one I mentioned "you text or we don't communicate" so I have to prepare for dealing with that too.

Originally Posted by mehr
My ex likes to give a lot of ultimatums like the one I mentioned "you text or we don't communicate" so I have to prepare for dealing with that too.

But, you wouldn't have to deal with any of that if you are in Plan B. All of his avenues of contact would be cut off. So if he wanted to get a message to you, he would HAVE to go through the IM.
There isn't a way to block text messages on my phone. He'd probably keep doing what he wants....
Originally Posted by mehr
There isn't a way to block text messages on my phone. He'd probably keep doing what he wants....

All phones/networks can block callers. In fact, I can do this right from my phone. So I am pretty positive you can too.

I think you need to figure out why you would rather make an excuse than do this.
You would simply change all of your contact information, and keep yourself hidden away, safely, and dark.

Since you are able to have your children go out on their own, you won't need to see him for exchanges, but I would highly recommend that you have some place else to exchange them, or have someone else do the exchanges for you, and you not be there.

It's not too late to start a true Plan B. Since you recommend it to people, you know that it has benefits, why not see them for yourself?
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Originally Posted by mehr
There isn't a way to block text messages on my phone. He'd probably keep doing what he wants....

All phones/networks can block callers. In fact, I can do this right from my phone. So I am pretty positive you can too.

I think you need to figure out why you would rather make an excuse than do this.

I guess I don't really see the point in a plan b, I'd love to lose contact with him but with kids I don't see how using a third party would help right now.

It would cost 5 dollars a month to block a phone number on an iPhone, and if I change my phone number if my son needed to contact him about an event he'd already get the number.

Yup I guess I don't see the benefit right now as long as we have to share kids.
Originally Posted by mehr
I guess I don't really see the point in a plan b, I'd love to lose contact with him but with kids I don't see how using a third party would help right now.
Yup I guess I don't see the benefit right now as long as we have to share kids.

Didn't you say this:

Originally Posted by mehr
. Kind of sick of having to deal with him but that's the problem with having kids and events.

I guess we thought you were looking for solutions. Staying in contact with your XH keeps you enmeshed in the sick emotions associated with him and keeps you beaten down. Whereas, women who go into Plan B feel 1000% better by cutting off contact. They move onto a real recovery.

Do you think you might be addicted to him?
I will say this.....you have every right to do things the way you are currently doing them. You are choosing to directly communicate with him about kids.

It doesn't have to be done directly, but it is a conscious choice you are making.

That is okay.

Just know that if you ever choose to go to plan B for your own sanity......if you need it.....it CAN be done, an intermediary could be found to relay only important information about medical, educational, visitation schedules and you would get to be free of the nightmare known as ex. Kids could still have a relationship with him. It would be different but do-able.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by mehr
I guess I don't really see the point in a plan b, I'd love to lose contact with him but with kids I don't see how using a third party would help right now.
Yup I guess I don't see the benefit right now as long as we have to share kids.

Didn't you say this:

Originally Posted by mehr
. Kind of sick of having to deal with him but that's the problem with having kids and events.

I guess we thought you were looking for solutions. Staying in contact with your XH keeps you enmeshed in the sick emotions associated with him and keeps you beaten down. Whereas, women who go into Plan B feel 1000% better by cutting off contact. They move onto a real recovery.

Do you think you might be addicted to him?

I am thinking about this seriously. How do I find someone that would be willing to be an intermediary for me without thinking I am being ridiculous. How can I explain this?
I also just have to say, he buzzed my 3 and 4 year old boys' hair off again today. I hate it. frown
You could start asking potential intermediaries how they would feel about being the person who arranges visitations and etc. to protect you from the emotional upheavel of direct contact with your ex.

Just tell potential people that you are feeling the need to disengage more fully for health reasons.

If someone is amiable to doing it, tell them you need them to be a filter to send only facts to you.

Potential people would be those who can talk to ex without lecturing him or going off bowling with him.
Mehr, picking your IM depends mostly on the types of things your IM will need to do. Will you be able to have only email contact between the three of you? Are you ready to put in the little bit of extra work initially to get it all sorted out? How will the exchanges go? Are you willing to go dark?

I am more than happy to help your IM candidates sort through all of this, if need be. I know how much a good Plan B depends on a GREAT IM.
Mehr - consider this - every time OW communicates as if it were him, HE IS USING AN INTERMEDIARY!

Or at least he's allowing it to avoid conflict with OW.

You should be using an intermediary to avoid contact with HER. And her abusiveness toward you.

An intermediary boils things down to just facts.

As for the haircuts, shrug it off. The minute it no longer matters to you, the juice she gets from doing it loses it's potency.

Here's what you can tell from their behavior:
1. She's insecure. Otherwise, she'd butt-out of communication regarding your children.
2. She's giving him a rash about just about everything. She's love-busting the h*ll out of him. Oh Joy!
3. Cutting off contact removes the release valve on the pressure between the two of them. Let the cooking begin!
4. Even if you no longer want to reconcile your marriage, removing contact with you gets her out of the picture sooner.
5. She will be the one to cause most of the parenting conflicts because she feels threatened, she will do everything she can to keep the conflict about you. Plan B removes that blame from you, and even if he's got his head in a stinky dark place, even he will eventually see the irrationality of her issues.

Plan B is probably the best thing you can do for your children, because SHE is a threat to your babies' well-being because of her proven instability.
Originally Posted by mehr
...if I change my phone number if my son needed to contact him about an event he'd already get the number.

Get a cheapo pay-as-you-go phone that your son can call foghead with. When it's not being used, it's turned off and tossed into the junk drawer.

They (OW and foghead) are only doing these things because they get a rise out of you. Quit playing their game.

Yea they love your reaction to their ill gotten lives. Plan B and remove yoursf from it. Your better than that.
Could I use a boyfriend as a filter?

Our visitation agreement is that he picks them up from my town on his Fridays, and then I drive down and pick them up on Sunday. That really affects me because they are still living in MY house. My boyfriend has been driving down there with me and he sees how it affects me and he offered to drive down there and get the kids next time so I don't have to.
I would prefer to use email but I don't know his email address and he won't give it to me. Any time there's something to email like a flyer he has me send it to his mom who forwards it to him.
How long have you been dating? I wouldn't trust a boyfriend with my kids. But that's just me. Maybe you can negotiate a neutral drop off/pick up point, like MacDonald's in both your towns? That way you won't have to drive up to his "lurve nest".

Maybe the vets would have some better suggestions.
Mehr, I remember you from before and had wondered what happened with you.

I know two divorced people (5+ years) that still have contact with their xWSs and are still stuck in a bad place. Every time I see them, they have endless complaints about their exes and don't seem to have made much progress in their recovery. Do you want that to be you? Of course not. You want to RARELY think of him and OW.

If it makes you feel any better, this skanky OW is MISERABLE (and I know this because she sounds exactly the same as my xWH's OW) and it makes her feel better about herself to fight with you and have a reason to complain about you. That's how pathetic she is. Do you want to give her that? Of course not.
I haven't read your entire thread, just bits and pieces of it. I am a former MB member from years back who went through a horrible and very public affair with my XH. We divorced in 2006 and it was HORRIBLE at the beginning. Lots of drama, nasty text messages, emails back and forth, etc. I have learned many things over the years.

1. you cannot control what happens while the kids are in his custody. you do not have any say so as to what they can do or not do while he has possession of them.

2. Do not engage in any texts, emails, calls, etc. if he texts you, simply reply with yes or no. Do not engage with them. The more you do so, the more they will antagonize you. The best thing is to ignore the texts. Gets them every time. smile

3. Get your kids a cell phone. It will save you a lot of pain and agony. you do not need to have contact with him or her at all. you can add an additional line for $9.99 a month. They can text him, call him, he can call them do whatever they want at their discretion. Let them have their time with their dad.

4. Do not have any contact with the OW. The kids are yours and his, not yours and hers. If he is unable to conduct business in a mature manner, then you do it at another time. She does not have the right, now or ever, to conduct business with you regarding your kids.

5. Do not discuss your XH in front of your kids. they will eventually realize on their own what a POS he is and was.

You have a long road ahead of you. I have been in "Plan B" with my XH for 7 years now. I have no desire to see him or speak to him. When he picks up the kids, the go out the front door. We do not speak to each other. I think I have spoken to him a total of 5 times in the past 7 years. We can at least speak now civilly rather than yelling at each other or him insulting me and telling me how much better his life is now. Life is so much easier now. Eventually, you'll get tired of the drama and monotony of it that you'll shut down.

I also found that when I had a BF, things only complicated things. I found myself constantly talking about how bad XH was or he did this or that because the BF would bring things up...I realized I couldn't get away from it and I had to move on.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Mehr, I remember you from before and had wondered what happened with you.

I know two divorced people (5+ years) that still have contact with their xWSs and are still stuck in a bad place. Every time I see them, they have endless complaints about their exes and don't seem to have made much progress in their recovery. Do you want that to be you? Of course not. You want to RARELY think of him and OW.

If it makes you feel any better, this skanky OW is MISERABLE (and I know this because she sounds exactly the same as my xWH's OW) and it makes her feel better about herself to fight with you and have a reason to complain about you. That's how pathetic she is. Do you want to give her that? Of course not.

I have to agree...it is so much easier when you don't have contact with them. it really does. And under no circumstances, do you need to have contact with the OW. She thinks she can move on in and take over HIS role as the parent. if she tries, do not respond to her.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Mehr, I remember you from before and had wondered what happened with you.

I know two divorced people (5+ years) that still have contact with their xWSs and are still stuck in a bad place. Every time I see them, they have endless complaints about their exes and don't seem to have made much progress in their recovery. Do you want that to be you? Of course not. You want to RARELY think of him and OW.

If it makes you feel any better, this skanky OW is MISERABLE (and I know this because she sounds exactly the same as my xWH's OW) and it makes her feel better about herself to fight with you and have a reason to complain about you. That's how pathetic she is. Do you want to give her that? Of course not.

Okay. So I need to get rid of contact that keeps me down.

I am dating a guy that I do trust with my kids. He already watches them for some of my night/weekend work shifts when the day care is closed. He is very good with them and they trust him. And yes I am serious and aware of any potential abuse and have taught my kids what is okay/what is not and that they can tell me. Actually I worry more about abuse happening when they are in ex's care because he is very negligent and kids have gotten injured and left alone under bad circumstances. Still, like you said, I can't control that. But as a result I have made sure my communication with the kids is safe and open.

All that being said, would it be okay for boyfriend to do pick ups? Ex just opens door and ejects the kids from his/our house, so there isn't any communication necessary, but for me just *being* in our house's driveway and seeing OW's car there can really trigger me for hours. frown As far as meeting at a neutral location, he lives in a very small town and there isn't even a Mcdonalds, but even if there was I *GUARANTEE* that he would refuse to do anything other than pick up at his house like is written on the paperwork. He likes to do the opposite of what would help me or what I request even nicely.

How about for the rest of necessary communication I write an email to ex-mother-in-law. This would be events from during his visitation that the kids have interest/investment in, "Saturday Feb 14 DS's basketball game is at 1pm." or "DD has been invited for a birthday party on Feb 14, that is your day, here is the phone number to let them know if she can go or not." She is FAR from a neutral party and enables ex, but I suspect that there won't be any response from either him or her because there never has been when I've forwarded kid event flyers. So it'd be worth a try, future revision possible.

My oldest is 8. My second child turned 6 last week. So they are very young and not good at using a telephone for conversation, I would have to help them a lot. But that can be something to work on this year with calling other people so we can get there.
Regarding the telephone.
I have a 8 and 6 year old.
I don't help them with the phone at all (unless they ask) in which case I dial ex ww number and hand it to them.
I haven't heard her lying adulterous voice in months and I'm glad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Regarding the telephone.
I have a 8 and 6 year old.
I don't help them with the phone at all (unless they ask) in which case I dial ex ww number and hand it to them.
I haven't heard her lying adulterous voice in months and I'm glad

Yeah, that's good. When I was 7 I used the phone too, but my kids have never really had a reason to use a phone so they have no practice. shocked They have maybe used a phone 1 or 2 times. I am sure they will pick up the skill though.
I don't like the idea of you having your BF pick up the kids, only because when you start to enforce going dark, your WH and OW will most likely start to cause problems with your BF. If that is the best option for now, then use it, until it no longer works, and plan for that eventuality.

Now, I wouldn't suggest that you use your xMIL as an IM, but what you can do, is use your IM to send the messages to xMIL, and have the IM filter out them, to add an extra level of protection for you.
I did a free annual credit report today and found that the mortgage on our jointly owned home, that he and skanky live in, hasn't been paid since January and is already on the credit report. Sigh.

It is on the market to sell right now so I guess he figures he can get away with not paying it. So frustrating what a second rate person he's turned into. He's hurting his own chances of buying the house he supposedly wants to buy with skanky.
You can also just call the mortgage holder directly to see if it has been paid and what you can do. Can you find a way to pay it? A judge will most likely return your payments after the house sells. I assume he is under court order to pay it?
Update:

I have an intermediary, it's the same one I had short after he left. She is a friend of mine that I've vented about things many times and he/ow got very abusive towards me over text so it had to end. I blocked his number from my phone so he cannot reach me that way.

His new thing is to try to talk to me at pick ups. He keeps walking up to the front door and talking. It's upsetting to me. I asked my fianc� to answer the door this time to prevent it but he still talked to me when I had to walk my 3 year old to the door because he didn't want to go. Ex is trying to avoid using intermediary by accosting me at the door.

I got engaged and I am very happy. We are getting married next fall. It's a much healthier relationship than my marriage, which is sad... But it takes two to work on things.

My ex got married and I didn't realize for over a month after it happened. One visit my daughter came home and told me they got married and she didn't get invited but that the ow's daughter was the flower girl. Not sure if that's true or not, about the flower girl, they may have just gone to court. I'm glad my kids weren't there.

I kept my married name upon divorce because of the kids and I am looking forward to getting rid of it because it just gives me an icky feeling now.

Sometimes my daughter tells me about their fighting and how she's in charge, and I figure not all is well in paradise, but they got married anyway.

I am relieved to just be living my life and out of the drama. Life is good.
Oh and ex and ow bought a new, slightly larger house. I'm glad they're out of the home we bought, but I wish I had a bigger house. He got a new job which is reported to make 4 dollars an hour more and he isn't paying as much in child support as he should, but it costs Money to take him to court too.

It is true what they say, that the divorced man comes out better financially.
mehr,
Thank you for updating us.
It sucks that finances are shattered and or limited with divorce.

I am very glad that you found a new man to share your life with. I wish you both the very best.

Hugs to you and your children.

Hi Mehr,

I read your story and followed progress over the years. I hope you are happy...but, quick question. Are you happy? And, are you applying MB principals now? I hope so!
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