[s]Okay, so I'm new here. I've been reading some posts for a couple days now, but haven't posted myself. My husband and I have been married for nearly 8 years. We were both raised as Jehovah's Witnesses and anyone who's familiar with the group would know that they have very strict rules and guidelines for how you are to live your life. Members only date with marriage in mind. You didn't date to have fun. There was no premarital sex so dating had to be chaperoned. As I'm sure you can imagine, there are a lot of young couples getting married. We were 19. It was very rocky at times. We made each other very happy, but there were a lot of issues early on. Part of the issues were due to just adjusting to each other. We'd never been alone before. We eventually worked through those issues and things got better.
We'd bought a house and had been remodeling it for awhile. Shortly before our second anniversary, my husband found some information we'd learned in the church very unsettling. I myself had chosen to ignore a lot of what we learned feeling like I could never live up to their standards anyway. He did a lot of research and talked to some of the more "mature" ones in the congregation and seemed to find some peace with it for awhile. However, gradually over the next 3 1/2 years he became more depressed and withdrawn. On September 13th, 2008, my husband finally couldn't keep it from me anymore. It wasn't just one thing he didn't agree with anymore, there was a whole list of things. Over the next 6 weeks we argued back and forth about who was right or wrong, but ultimately his decision was to leave the organization. I had done my own studying about the issues that were important to me and came to the same conclusion a short time later. It was the best decision we ever made and we immediately started to get closer. Everything was better. We were really happy. That's been 2 1/2 years. I know that's a lot of background information, but it will make sense.

On March 10th, my husband told me that he'd been thinking a lot about some things he'd missed out on as a result of being raised as Jehovah's Witnesses. While he loved me more than anything and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, he regretted not having the opportunity to be single and have fun. He'd thought about asking me for an open marriage, but had been worried about saying anything because he knows I'm incredibly insecure about myself and didn't want me to think that he didn't want me.I was in shock. I told him I understood how he felt and I did, but I didn't tell him how it truly made me feel. I was always afraid that my husband would get tired of me and want someone else and leave me. I felt like this finally confirmed it. He felt better after telling me and was somewhat prepared to drop it...at least for now. After several days of going back and forth in my head, I finally decided that we would do it. That was St. Patrick's Day. I told him to come up with his list of rules and I would come up with mine. We had similar rules, no friends and no relationships.
The next day, the 18th, this friend sent me a message on Facebook telling me he hated me for being such a "cool wife". He said he couldn't understand why I'd agreed to that, but it was nice that I wanted to make my husband happy. He then asked me how he could get on "the list". I told him right away that it would never happen because he's my husbands best friend and I couldn't do that to him. He is also married and his wife is expecting their first baby next month. I thought he was just joking initially and didn't tell my husband. On the 23rd or 24th, he started sending more messages."If we weren't all friends would you consider me if we met somewhere?" He was attractive, but I was not attracted to him. I told him I might, but it still would never happen. He would reply with "is it because you don't find me attractive?" Again, I would assure him that I found him attractive, but this was not going to happen. I kept feeling the need to make him feel better, but I knew what I was doing was wrong. He was very persistent for a couple days and I started flirting back. After two or three full days of flirting....a lot of flirting (I'm not very busy at my job)we sent pictures via text message. That was the 26th. We continued to text every day for the next week and then he started asking when we would have sex. I told him I didn't want to risk my relationship and I didn't want anyone to get hurt. He kept saying I had a free pass and he could live with whatever he did. I still didn't want to hurt anyone. On April 3rd, my husband and I went to this friend and his wife's house for the evening. It was the first time we'd actually seen each other since the whole thing started. The next day, he became more insistent that we see each other. I put it off saying it wouldn't work and it was too risky. He told me my husband would have a lot of experiences and this could be my one. I still don't know why I agreed to it, but I did. We planned for me to go to his house two days later. April 6th. Almost two weeks since I'd started flirting with him.
Ultimately, we did not have sex. We attempted, but because of some medication he takes, he could not. I was glad. It all felt wrong and I didn't want to be there. I finally left. The entire drive home all I could think about was that I'd just done something I never thought I'd do and I hated myself for it. I felt dirty and ashamed and guilty. I still didn't end it. I didn't know how to. I'd just done the dumbest thing of my life and I knew it and I still didn't know how to stop it. Two days later, on April 8th, my husband growing suspicious about a picture I sent him and what I'd said about it decided to look at my phone. The one person I never wanted to hurt felt destroyed and it was all my fault. In one moment I had killed our relationship and taken away his best friend. I've felt a constant sickness ever since. There has been absolutely zero contact with this person since that day. I didn't want him. I had no attachment to him. I've always wanted my husband, but I'd made a horrible mistake. The most important things to my husband were "nobody we know, and no relationships". I did both.
Since then, we've been on quite a roller coaster. I stayed with a friend for a few days and then moved back in due to financial concerns. We attempted to live like roommates for a couple weeks, but that didn't work. He felt that I didn't have a right to ask where he was going or what he was doing when he went out. He had told me that he didn't know what he wanted to do about us, but that he wanted to do his own thing for awhile. That might include dating other people. I tried to agree with that for awhile, but I was terrified that he would meet someone better than me and not want to try to fix us. I've checked up on him on FB and his phone, but that obviously doesn't help anything. He doesn't think the trust can ever be repaired or that he can ever get over what I did. As of today, he wants us to separate for awhile. He loves me and wants me, but he doesn't know if he wants to try to fix us. So, now I have to try to back away from my best friend and the person I love most in this world completely while he tries to figure out what he wants to do. My sister has offered me a place to stay so at least I'll be with family, but how do I not talk to or see someone that has been the most important part of my life for the last ten years? I know this is long and I apologize. If you made it all the way through, thank you. Please help.

I am not going to read all that. Please condense down to 3 paragraphs and break your posts into paragraphs. If you want help, please make sure your posts are readable, short and concise.

Thank you and welcome to Marriage Builders.

Okay. I've tried to shorten it.... a lot. I'm sorry there's so much info there.

When I started reading this, I thought it was about your affair; but as a I read further, I realized that it is really more about you & your husband not agreeing on what "marriage" means.

I know the pop-culture current is to say that "marriage" is whatever anyone wants to redefine it as; but that's not the definition here. "Open marriage" is an oxymoron. If it's "open," it's not a marriage.

If your husband is not interested in marriage, then the best option for you is to get divorced, before either of you goes around sleeping with other people.

You should also exercise the decency to let this other man's wife know what you & he were up to. She has a right to know what her husband has been doing, so that she has a chance to fix her own marriage, if she & her husband both still believe in marriage; or give her the right to make an informed choice to get out, if her husband truly believes that a wife who sleeps around is a "cool wife."

I let her know exactly what happened.

We need about 1/10th of that to GET your situation. More is not better if you want people to understand your situation and take the time to read through it. We don't need alot of superfluous information.

Can you cut that back to about 3 paragraphs?

regretful,

Welcome to MarriageBuilders. I'm sorry you have the need to be here but you will get lots of helpful advice & suggestions.

After reading through your story it's pretty obvious you and your H do not value your marriage or each other and have taken no steps to protect those very important things. You might have the chance to correct that.

PLEASE take the time to read the articles on this website. Read the concepts and principles of MarriageBuilders.

Is there any chance you can call the radio show and present your situation to Dr Harley? There's no charge and it's completely anonymous. Click on the MarriageBuilders Radio link for instructions.

Good luck to you!!

I've read your betrayed husband's story on another site. He is very hurt, angry, confused and heartbroken

Regretful,

Am I understanding this right?

Your husband wanted an open relationship where he could play the field.

YOu both agreed no friends

you tried it with his best friend but he couldn't follow through because he was on meds

Your husband found out and now is upset, not because you were unfaithful, but because you broke the rules...

Is this the short and skinny of it?

CV

The MB concepts still apply here.

First take full responsibility for what you did. Just because he "gave you permission" does not mean it was a good idea or the right thing to do. I've been there and I am dealing with the after math of it. He most likely did not think you would really take him up on offer.

Open relationships bring nothing but disaster and poor boundaries that lead to heart break.

Your husband is the one who wanted to have the open marriage. Now he has to live with the consequences.
First he basically told you that he wanted to have sex with other women but he also wanted you to continue to iron his shirts and take care of the children.
Now he wants to hold this over your head. He basically wanted out of the marriage anyway. Now you have given him a reason to blame you.

Anyway, you did not even have sex with his friend, while he did who knows what with other women...

Allthough I think it was an absolutely bad idea in the first place, this open marriage thing, you must be honest and decide if you want to be married to a man who treats you the way he does and second, if you want to be a woman who has sex with other people (s husbands).

If you have decided on that you can decide to MB with your husband.

Godd bless you

That would be accurate.

Because of out history, I understand why my husband asked what he did. However, I was not completely open with him about my feelings. If I had, it would not have continued. I still made a decision to form a relationship with his best friend. I don't understand why, but i'm not making any excuses for it.

I'm getting help for my depression and I wholeheartedly hope my husband xhooses to work on this marriage with me. I hope he can see we're worth it.

Regretful,

You do realize what your husband is saying is nonsense, right? My W was 15 and I was 17 when we met. We never "played the field" before marriage. She was my first and I was hers. I am now 41 and she's a little younger... I suspect, that he asked for an open relationship to alleviate the guilt feelings he was having because there was someone else already.

I know very little about being Jehovah Witness outside basic theological tenets. What would happen if you went and spoke to your pastor there, or the leaders at your church? I suspect they would confront him wholeheartedly on this, right?

Also, have you ordered Surviving an Affair? You may want to do that, and in the meantime, read some more of what's on the website about husbands and affairs. This will strengthen your knowledge and help you make informed decisions. Is it possible that you formed this relationship with his Best friend to make him jealous?

CV

That is my impression, too. I think he has engineered himself an excuse to bail on you and your marriage. He was probably dissatisfied before (possibly due to secretly forcing you to compete against someone else) but didn't want to be so low down as to end the marriage himself, so he set up some "new rules" and tricked you into agreeing to them so that either he could blame the downfall of the relationship on you, or he could set up a situation where he could still stay married to you and pretend to keep his self-respect while banging somebody else.

I would want to start snooping on this man immediately and find out what he is doing and what he has done.


I agree that exposing this adulterous behavior to your church and to anyone else that your husband respects is a very, very good idea! Shine light onto this darkness.

By the way, I agree that "playing the field" sexually before marriage is nonsense. Saving oneself for marriage is still a great idea, and there have always been people who have done this, and there still are.


Yes, definitely get this book.

Also, check out on this website:
* Dr. Harley's advice for surviving infidelity http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html
* Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts for a marriage full of romantic love http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

This will strengthen your knowledge and help you make informed decisions. Is it possible that you formed this relationship with his Best friend to make him jealous?

CV [/quote]

We left the church because it's basically a mind control cult. We don't have any associations with any current members and that's perfectly fine with both of us. His request stemmed from the fact that you aren't given a choice to stray from their rules. If you do, they kick you out and lose everything. Family, friends, everything you've ever known. Neither one of us was truly free to grow up like normal kids and make normal mistakes.

However, I do know that he freely made the decision to get married as did I. He regrets ever having told me his idea and what he was feeling, but I still have to accept responsibilty for my actions. Maybe deep down I did resent him for bringing it up and that's why I didn't stop it. I don't know for sure. I do know that my husband still is and always has been the man of my dreams. I'll do whatever it takes to repair the damage.

I have been reading the info on this site, but have not yet gotten the book. I'll add it to my list of reading.

Hogwash.

Isn't this really a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Jehovah's Witnesses did not invent marriage. They didn't invent or discover the parameters that have made marriage good and rewarding for thousands of years for people across many cultures and religions. One of those parameters is fidelity. Infidelity hurts people whether they are part of a religion or not.

Chafing under the rules of a religion might be a great reason to leave a church, but to me it seems like a terrible reason to obliterate marriage vows.

Infidelity is not a "normal" mistake. It's common, but that does not mean it is a desirable experience in life. Likewise for "playing the field" sexually before marriage. It may be something that a lot of people do, but that does not make it a good idea!

Lots of "normal" people lead completely miserable lives. Did you know that the most common cause of depression in women is their relationship with their husband or boyfriend? 20% of marriages remain happy long term, and people who have studied those marriages say that they do very predictable things that make that marital satisfaction predictable. One of the things they do, regardless of faith or lack of faith, is be faithful to each other, emotionally and physically.

To me this makes about as much sense as shooting your children because your childhood was unhappy. Why shoot your marriage just because some years of your life were wasted with the wrong church? If you were prevented from making some mistakes in life, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO MAKE THOSE MISTAKES NOW? It seems to me that missing some of the mistakes in life might be one of the GOOD things that came out of your upbringing.

Do you and your husband have any children, by the way? How long have you been married?

Well I am not sure how Prisca really feels ....

Seriously, this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Everything has rules. Rules define boundaries. Boundaries are there to make us feel and act safe. the JW's may have had extreme or unhealthy boundaries, but it doesn't negate the need for boundaries in general.

One of the funniest lines of "hogwash" (quoting prisca here) I ever heard was at a wedding reception, and I think it's very telling. The best man stood up and said "Marriage... it's not just a word, it's a sentence."

How untrue! It appears this is your H's view of marriage. He's received a sentence that he doesn't want to serve, yet the truth is, it is self imposed. A choice entered into freely. I am sure he didn't get married just so he could have sex.

This is a heart issue... it is not about missing out on something he feels he *needed*.

I strongly suspect that what he feels is that he "deserves" something... He deserves the right to do whatever he wants because he felt he was being controlled and wants to exercise control in every way he can.

I believe most A's are about control... feeling like you are out of control and wanting to take control of their lives again. The truth is, we are all beholden to someone. We have wives, husbands, bosses, kids, the IRS... God... And we are never in control. I can't control the rain we are getting.. nada...

Think about it.

Also, have you told the OM's wife what has happened? I think you may need to confess to her what you did. Come clean. Have you ended your relationship with the OM? I cannot remember if you posted this or not. Absolutely no contact.... Whether his junk is broke or not, you *must* break all contact with him... Forever.


CV

Next month will be our 8th anniversary. It's always been a happy time for us because it was the best decision we ever made. We always set aside time to really celebrate it. We usually plan our summer vacation around it. I never believed we ever took our relationship for granted. We were both stupid for thinking we could handle an open marriage. We both regret where it has led us. I know it's difficult to imagine what we were thinking, but I know my husband wasn't truly looking for a way out. He's always been a wonderful and loving person. We clearly both have a lot more growing up to do. We don't have any children.

I completely ended contact the day my husband found out. I was not attached. I deleted every picture I could find of him on our computer from times we'd all spent together. I wanted to completely erase him from our lives.

I did come clean to his wife. I let her know exactly what happened, when it started, what we talked about and when we made our attempt. I've never heard anything back from her.

And is your husband done with this "open marriage" idea? If so, what has he put in place to assure that he never does this again?

CV

At this point he doesn't know what he wants. He's scared to work on it right now. He doesn't know how to get over it or if he can. Regardless of how or why it started, I still hurt him.

He's asked for time apart. He still very much loves me and wants me, but he wants time to work on himself. He feels embarrassed and emasculated because of my actions. He wants time alone to rebuild his confidence and figure out what he wants with a clear head. He said three months, but I don't really know how to handle that. I worry that he'll enjoy being on his own and stop thinking about me. I have exhausted every possible solution I can think of though. I have to let him decide.

That's not the way to save your marriage. The way to save your marriage is to have more time together. Almost every time a spouse says they need "time alone" to "think" what they really want is time to be with the other person.

Hon, it's time to figure out what he's been up to.

I agree that time apart isn't the answer, but I have to let him decide that on his own. I can't force him to agree with me. I have to prepare for the possibility that he won't come back to me no matter how desperately I want him to. I just don't know how.

no, no, no.... You *don't* let him decide that on his own... That's what got you into this mess... Him making decisions on his own and you going along with them.

For a marriage to work, there has to be joint decisions made. That means you have to sit down with him and talk respectfully about the benefits and the cons of separating. The statistics of working out a marriage while separated are not good.

As far as convincing him, begin reading here . It is about converting your spouse who believes differently, but read what he is saying about how to approach communication. We are not trying to "force" someone, but we are pleading our case before them, encouraging them to view what we believe is right.

A good place to start is with this: Get a pencil and paper handy...

Write at the top of it Marriage:

now make a list of everything you believe marriage is supposed to be... All the good stuff.. Protection, respect, love, support, selflessness.... All of it, even if ti seems silly and unimportant...

now make another list with the same title...

Write down everything you believe it is NOT supposed to be... Scary, hurtful, lonely, dishonest...

Understand where I am going?

Before you can really begin to plead your own case, you need to know what you believe marriage is supposed to be.

Then when he comes home from work, cook him a big dinner, get him a nice glass of whatever he likes to drink, sit down with paper and a pen and ask him to do the same...

Compare the lists... Tell him firmly that you love him, and you are going to fight for these things you believe and share in the marriage. For those things you want in your marriage... honor, trust, respect, commitment... Let him know you love him, you are not forcing him to stay or go, but you are fighting for him because you love him.

DON'T Argue! TALK. This is really important. a gentle word turns away wrath... Don't respond in kind if he gets upset.

Okay, so first off. If you didn't want an open marriage then why the hell did you AGREE to it? He set up ground rules, two very specific ground rules, and you broke them. Why?

So, you claim that you had a relationship with his best friend but intercourse never happened due to his inability to Ummm....rise to the occasion. However, you continued to see him. So, you're telling me any other time you saw him resulted in his failure to perform?

I don't know what to tell you, do you know if he ever hooked up with anyone? I mean if he tells you he didn't...I have a tendency to believe him. I mean, he can prove that you cheated on him, but you can't. I think that he was weak at the moment with his crisis in faith and didn't know how to deal with it. And said something and agreed to something that was incredibly stupid. But, now you are BOTH paying the price. I strongly recommend that you two seek counseling for your marriage if he'll agree to it.

regretful,

You got caught up using your religion and marrying young to justify both of your desire to look outside the marriage.

Open Marriage = Oxymoron

If you were not in agreement with your church, find another that values marriage.

You have taken the first step in finding a way to fix your M.

Blessings.

I have told him repeatedly that I will continue to fight for this marriage. It is the most important thing to me and I won't stop until there is no hope. I have continually asked him to see a MC with me, but right now he won't agree to it. Because he feels so hurt, he feels he needs to build himself up right now. I can't fault him for that. He has decide that we're worth spending the time on. He knows exactly where I stand. I love him and will do whatever it takes. Until he feels the same, I can only work on my own issues. I will continue to assure him that I love him and want to spend my life with him. I don't think I can insist we work on this. I feel if I do he'll leave. I can't handle that right now.

Your history has nothing to do with it. Many, many people do not screw around before they settle down and marry. The truth is he wanted to bang some strange and you went along with it.

I felt that agreeing to it was the only way to make him happy. In retrospect, that was a horrible idea. I needed to stand up for how I felt, but I was afraid he would resent me. That's just one of many irrational fears that I have.

I only saw this man once. Every other contact was via text message or facebook. The entire relationship from the time I started flirting until my husband found out lasted two weeks and a day.

I believe him when he says he hasn't been with anyone. He could have at this point if he'd wanted to, but he hasn't. I am going to counseling myself and he knows he has an open invitation to come with me anytime.

Regretful,

I think that what Crossbar was asking was why did you choose to break the 2 specific rules your husband had set for you both?

Why did you choose his best friend instead of say a co worker, a guy at a bar or the mailman?

So.. have you formed a plan for what to do yet?

CV

When I agreed to the plan I had no intention of sleeping with his friend or breaking any of the rules. I had never considered sleeping with him before it started and wasn't even attracted to him. I truly didn't think i'd end up sleeping with anyone. I thought i'd go out with my friends and just have fun, maybe even dance with some guys. I never thought myself capable of this.

My plan right now is to move from my friend's couch to my sisters house. My husband and I are still talking and right now it's very open and without anger. I hope it continues and he sees the value in working on us the way I do.

Is he willing to let you move back in? it really is the best way to work on your marriage.

At this time he is not.

You didn't break your original marriage vows. Why did you chose to break the vows of no one you both knew and no friends?

I don't know why I did it. I know that sounds like a cop out, but I honestly never intended to do it. From the first time I flirted with him on March 23rd to the morning my husband found out on April 8th, I felt horrible. I lost seven pounds because I couldn't eat, I spent entire nights awake. I didn't sleep more than a couple hours a night. I was not attracted to this other man, but I still did it. I had actually made plans to go away for a weekend with my friends somewhere more than two hours away just to make sure that if I did happen to meet someone, the chances of running into them ever again would be very little. But we didn't make it to that weekend. I ruined everything before that.

Ok pardon my confusion here...

As I was understanding what your husband was suggesting, the open marriage thing was about pursuing sex, not relationships...

There were clear boundaries to NOT pursue a relationship, but just get some nookie.

I really think one of the thing you should do regretful is a long hard search as to why you decided to pursue a relationship and not just say "let's get it on".

I suspect you are not being honest with yourself as to why you followed through with this particular course of action...

1. The guy pursued you, but you didn't tell your husband he was pursuing you

2. You let him catch you, despite your claims there was no interest

3. Not only did you engage with him emotionally, you decided you would give sex a try (and I am guessing there were actions leading up to the sex that were engaged in.. Kissing hugging, petting maybe..)

4. despite being "open" you decided to hide it. Why is that? Because you *knew* it broke the rules, right?

Regretful, it wasn't like you said "hey... bob smith has asked me to have a little fun, I'm taking him up on that on Friday honey.." Instead, you pursued a romantic relationship (albeit a short one), exchanged pictures with a guy you weren't interested in, and engaged in an attempt.

I suspect that maybe there was a revenge factor for you. If not, your H was not filling your ENs and you decided that you were going to let this guy do it.

Let's face it, your husband worked really hard to get you on board and you were hurt by that, right?

Being the list guy I am... Take a paper and pen... Write down everything you were feeling during those conversations, and determine why you would do such a thing. Heck, even if the relationship was open, there was no impetus for you to have to follow through right? You could have allowed him to pursue and stayed perfectly faithful.

CV

Regretful,

I have had a similar situation and it seems followed a similar path. My BH wanted to pursue external relationships that we would both be aware of. I chose to have an EA/PA instead that was completely deceptive.

I try very hard to not blame his request for my actions. I could have chosen to not agree to his request and told him how it made me feel...instead, I found my own completely inappropriate "solution."

In retrospect, I think what hurt me the most was he even entertained the idea to begin with. It hurt that he wanted to share me period. In my fantasy, I was able to make believe that the OM would not have made such a choice...this is in fact ludicrous since he was already aware he was "sharing" me and clearly didn't have a problem with it.

As you can see, my solution to my husband disrespecting me, was compounded by letting another man disrespect me.

Now my BH and I are in agreement that we will never consider opening up our marriage again...I think part of me will always wonder if he is missing the idea but I intend to live up to that regardless of what he says or does...something I should have done from the getgo.

Actually Celtic. In Regetful's defense, one of the side deals, if I'm reading this right, is that they wouldn't bring any "hook ups" to light to the other person. To keep it secret and no details. But, I'm getting a feeling that her husband may have been sensing that there was problems in the marriage. Sensing these problems may have resulted in a stupid decision as to opening up the marriage in order not to lose her.

I mean, she hooked up with his best friend. Now, I'm reading that she planned a get away weekend with the sole purpose to hook up with a ramdom stranger and her husband didn't make any moves at all. Leaves me to believe that she was more into the idea of going outside the marriage than he was. I'm sorry if this is a little too....harsh...but it's how I'm seeing it.

1. When he initially started pursuing me I thought it was a joke. I didn't say anything to my husband because I was afraid of causing a problem between them.

2. When my husband asked me for the arrangement it made me feel like he didn't want me anymore. When the friend started pursuing me more aggressively, I felt wanted again.

3. All we ever talked about was sex. We didn't talk about our days or anything else. The day we made the attempt, he told me a little about his issues and I told him some about mine, but I was not attached emotionally so it was easy to break contact once my husband found out.

4. I did know it was breaking the rules. That was the first thing I said to this guy when he started his pursuit. I told him it would never happen because it breaks the rules and I'm not going to hurt my husband.

We planned to each go away and not be in our immediate areas so we didn't have any uncomfortable run ins with people. We weren't going to talk about what we did. We knew it would make us uncomfortable to talk about it. That should have been a huge clue that neither one of us could handle it.

There is no excuse for what I did and I don't want anyone thinking that I'm trying to avoid responsibility. It doesn't make sense to me. My marriage has always been the most important thing to me. My friends have always made fun of me because I won't even smile at guys. If they try to talk to me, or dance with me when we're out, the first words out of my mouth are "i'm married, I'm not interested" and I usually accompany that with shoving my ring in their face.

I hate what I did.

Sunny,

What you're saying makes a lot of sense to me. I've always had very low self-esteem and my husband always told me how much he loved me, always told me I was beautiful, could never keep his hands off me. No matter what I thought of myself, I knew how much he cared about me and that he didn't want anyone else. I always worried that he would grow tired of me and I was terrified of losing him. When he asked me for an open marriage, it confirmed my worst fears. That I wasn't good enough and he was finally tired of me. No matter what he said to the contrary at the time, saying he wanted to sleep with other people said the opposite to me. That is what hurt the most. Not feeling like I was good enough for him anymore.

The OM may have filled that void temporarily because he was pursuing me while my husband was going to be pursuing others. The OM however, was pursuing my friend as well. He was calling me a whore for ever considering sleeping with strangers. He made me feel even worse than my husband had.

Crossbar,

The weekend away was to make sure that if I did meet someone, I'd probably never see them out again. My husband had plans to go out with his friends as well, but we wanted to make sure that we wouldn't be running into each other. Even though we'd made the plans to go away though, I still didn't think I'd end up hooking up with anyone.

OK, that puts a lot more into perspective than before...

I'm not as quick on the draw as others here, but what is extremely evident to me is that there is some work that needs to be done by both of you. If he is not willing, you can pursue yourself anyway.

What you need to do is read the pages (if you haven't already done so) on the website about boundaries. This is a good place to start.


Then you need to put EPs (extraordinary precautions) into place for yourself. It sounds like you had them in the past but let your defenses down.

My thought is that not only will this help you get back on track personally, but it will also give you something you can show to your husband to reassure him it is not going to happen again. A starting point if you will.

CV

Okay, I'm not gonna bash on ya anymore! He messed up and you messed up. He can take the blame for 50% of the screw ups in your marriage and you have to own up to the other 50%. BUT, you have to own up to 100% of the affair. Because, let's face it, you had the affair. So, don't go blaming him or pointing fingers saying that this is what we agreed upon...yada...yada... Because when it comes down to it. It was you who was kissing another man, it was you who was touching a man intimately that wasn't your husband.

So, how do we fix it? Action. You can tell him that you love him, you love your life with him and you'll do anything to fix this until the cows come home. He won't believe you. So, he doesn't want to go to marriage counseling just yet? Okay, then you get started on Individual Counseling to work on you! If he see's you're being proactive on trying to fix this, he might start working with you. And it wouldn't surprise me that when you do start to see each other that some hysterical bonding happens. That means that you and your husband end up sleeping with each other everytime you see each other. This happenes a lot and it doesn't last too long. It kind of a way that people try to lay stake to what they believe is their's and not the OM's. Don't take this as things are fine again. Because they are far from being fine. There's still a lot of work to be done.

I went back and reread. Thanks for pointing that out.

Ours lasted 2.5 years... The hysterical bonding... I think I am in need of a vacation...

Are you going to tell the BW of your OM?

^^^^^LMAO^^^^^^

This was definitely a wake up call for me. I'm not open to any sort of open relationship and only want to be with my husband. I've definitely turned on the part of my brain that was in control before in how I deal with the opposite sex. I feel like I've changed even what I'm wearing when I'm not with my husband. Instead of wearing things that made me feel good, but also may attract attention from others, I've been more conservative. I had really long hair that used to get a lot of comments and had been considering cutting it off for a change. This motivated me to cut it shorter than I had been planning. I don't want anyone to think I'm available. The only people I talk to other than my husband are my girlfriends, family members and now my therapist. I have put the precautions in place and I will stick to them.

My husband feels responsible for getting the ball rolling, however, I know that I and I alone am completely responsible for my actions. I do not blame my husband or the OM for what I did. My husband may have suggested something that hurt me and the OM knew my insecurities and played on them, but I did make the decision to do what I did. I know the problems that I have that put me in that bad situation and have already started individual counseling to work on those problems. I needed to get help a very long time ago and I didn't. I'm 4 sessions in and glad I'm doing it.

Hysterical bonding has been going on since about 6 days after my husband found out. It's definitely continued every time we see each other. Even if it started out in a huge argument, it ended up in bed. We know why it's happening and everyone I've talked to has said it's not necessarily a bad thing. I know it isn't a fix, but it's okay right now.

I have told her exactly what happened.

Really? You've been in contact with your husband since you've moved out? Okay good! How much contact do you two have? Do you talk everyday?
The hysterical bonding isn't a bad thing, but recongize it for what it is. Some people get lulled into believing that things are going back to normal, if not BETTER than before, it's just not the case.

Now, get ready for the emotional roller coaster. One minute, he'll love you and can't think of a life without you, then the next moment, he doesn't think you guys can work. One minute he'll be laughing and smiling, then next he'll be mad as hell. You just need to be understanding and supportive when this happens.

How did the friend find out you were a 'cool wife'? Was your husband bragging to his friends, or did you tell the OM?

Yes. I was out for the first week and a half staying with a friend. Then I moved back in for a couple weeks with the idea that we would live like roommates for awhile due to financial concerns, but that wasn't working. We were too together and then apart and I was checking up on him assuming he was seeing other people and it wasn't healthy. I'm back at my friends, but getting ready to move into my sisters place with her family for awhile to give him space. Hopefully, he'll at least continue talking to me and so we can work on our relationship that way, but he is too confused for me to be there every day.

Your roller coaster description is completely accurate though and in my emotional state it wasn't good for me either.

My husband's idea was something he'd discussed with this friend before he even told me.

Well, that's when you need to step up and admit you're wrong. You have to swallow your pride and take care of your man. I know you're hurting too. But you have to understand that he was cheated on. His pride and self esteem is non-existant and his male ego is down the toliet. YES! It was his dumb idea; however, you didn't have to follow through with it. Everytime he thinks of you right now the thing he's seeing in his head is you AND the OM. Your marriage is never going to be the same, it is always going to be different. You are always going carry the remorse and guilt over this and he's going to carry the pain of your affair. This isn't going to be easy. But one of the two of you has to step up and put their pain aside for the sake of the other.

Ugh.

Glad to see things have worked out so well for you both after freeing yourself from that cult.

I have admitted I was wrong every single day. I will continue to do so. He wants space to figure things out and work on himself. I'm giving him that. After some more discussion, we are going to continue talking about just normal things every day, but once a week we'll get together to really talk face to face. While apart we'll each work on ourselves. While it kills me not to see him every day, I know he needs this and I'm going to respect that.

Email the radio show and try to get on there to get some advice from DrH on how to proceed.

At this time I'm trying to work on myself and the issues I have that brought me here. My therapist who also specializes in MC has given me some direction on how to proceed. She has also invited my husband in for individual counseling. I feel like we both have plans on getting through our day to day lives right now and we'll continue to have some contact that will hopefully allow us to maintain open communication.

Skip the therapist and individual counseling. Your marriage is sure to fail that way. Instead, do this:

And see if you can talk your H into joining you...

I have to agree with Prisca here. Marriage is a team endeavor and requires team-work. Doing things apart from each other doesn't bring people together.

At this point, he doesn't want to work on things together. He wants time to decide if he wants to work on it at all. He's even mentioned possibly wanting to date other people. I admit that I have a really hard time with this. It's difficult for me to say that I'm not okay with it considering what I did. Saying it makes me feel like a hypocrite. However, at the same time, I know those actions wouldn't help us at all. So I do have to concentrate on working on myself. If he decides to follow through with that I could end up being completely without him and I've never been without him in my adult life. I want him to think about our nearly 10 year relationship and remember how good we were. We've worked through a lot of serious issues before and always come out stronger. I know we could make it through this too, but he has to want to.

Hon, your wayward husband has found an excuse to continue to sleep around on you, and you're rolling over and letting your marriage die.

Do you want to work the MB plan?

you know this parable?


In a town there was once a judge who didn't fear God or care about people. In that same town there was a widow who kept going to the judge and saying, "Make sure that I get fair treatment in court." For a while the judge refused to do anything. Finally, he said to himself, "Even though I don't fear God or care about people, I will help this widow because she keeps on bothering me. If I don't help her, she will wear me out." (Luk 18:2-5)

If you want this to work, you are going to have to fight (not argue or be offensive mind you, but be persistent) to save your M. This means you may have to broach the subject a bit more often... There are many ways to bring the subject up.

CV

I truly believe that he hasn't done anything yet other than talk to other people. I know this by his own admission. However, he hasn't made me any promises. I desperately want to work whatever plan will get us on track, but I can't do it alone. I screwed up. I don't deny that. I never have. I'm getting help for the issues that I ignored for so long and brought me here. I I just don't know what to say anymore.

I've brought it up over and over and over again. Instead of it feeling like a plea to work on the most important relationship in our lives, to him it feels like I'm pressuring him to get over it and to be with me and work on it. I know how crazy I've been over the last several weeks. Sending desperate messages, sobbing uncontrollably, not eating because it makes me sick, missing work, drinking too much....etc. I don't want him to rush making a decision, I just don't want him to give up. I want him to say that maybe there is a possibility this could work so I'm really going to think about it, but not cloud that decision by seeing or talking to other people. Just because it's easier to talk to other people right now because they didn't hurt you doesn't mean that will be better. It just doesn't hurt right now.

I have a difficult time saying "I deserve an answer before you move on to someone else." It's what I want to say, but I don't feel like I deserve it after what I did. I feel like I'm hanging from a cliff and he has the ability to save me, but can't decide if he wants me around or wants to let me go. So I just keep hanging and I'll keep doing that for now.

Regretful, do you want to work the MB plan?

I do.

Call or email Dr. Harley's radio show program, tell him your story, and get some free, professional help.

It really is the best thing you can do for your marriage right now.

Well, at this point i'm done. He wants to live a single life and do whatever he wants. He doesn't want to be married. He doesn't want to answer to anyone or work on our relationship. He doesn't think he'll ever get over what I did. I'll be here. If he wants me than he has to want to work us together

regretful, I'm wondering if your H is using your infidelity as a stepping stone for getting out of a marriage he didn't want to be in. He's within his rights to remove himself from you after what you did, but it seems odd. He was all for it until you did it, and now he's checking out. Just makes me wonder.

I think he wants and has always wanted to see if there was something better, but just in case he didn't find it he's going to keep me around. I'm in no way condoning my behavior. He knows exactly how he hurt me before and how he continues to hurt me now. I love him more than myself, but he's killing me.

One thing you can do is tell him you don't agree with this. Tell him you hold him responsible for his part in the extremely destructive decision for BOTH of you to be unfaithful. Tell him that it is ridiculous for him to hold you accountable for your part and not to be held accountable for his part and that he's lying to himself if he holds you solely to blame. Tell him that you don't think being apart right now is going to help anything and that you are aware of a plan for recovering marriages in situations exactly such as yours, and tell him that you want to keep your marriage and work on this plan, and tell him that separation is not going to solve anything.

Your husband has been attempting to destroy your marriage, and I think you should stand up to him. He is every bit as much to blame as you. He was unfaithful from the minute he suggested that the two of you go outside of your marriage. In fact, he was probably unfaithful before that! He proposed a ridiculous and unworkable set of "rules," and for some reason you feel guilty for breaking them, when HE should feel guilty for proposing them! What he did was wrong, hon, and you should tell him that you hate what his idea did to your marriage and tell him that you want to start over!

Yes! Your husband has been just as unfaithful to your marriage as you have. This was all his idea! Infidelity is infidelity, no matter if you agree to it or not. He wanted to sleep around on you. He took steps to make it happen. It doesn't matter if you broke his silly rules. He was unfaithful by even suggesting them.

And he wants to act all hurt and innocent?

Why won't you call Dr. Harley?

Do you think someone who sees you as his fall-back plan in case he can't find anyone better is someone who is the best marriage partner possible for you?

Yes, you messed up. You didn't value your marriage enough to protect it. You were misled by a belief that somehow your previous faith robbed you of something you thought valuable... so you robbed yourself of something actually valuable.

Now, you know how valuable marriage is.

Doesn't sound like he does. You'd think almost losing you would help him see that, but it hasn't. Fundamentally his outlook that precipitated this horrific fall hasn't changed.

Sounds like he wants to be single... but know that he can come back to marriage if the single world slaps him in the face.

Are you comfortable with that?

I do hold him responsible for what he asked of me. He knows me better than anyone else and knows the struggles i've had for so many years. He had to know exactly how it would affect me. After that, I made a lot of things up in my mind that may or may not have been true and I was unfaithful. I don't believe for a second though that he was unfaithful. He acted selfishly, but I belueve he'd been faithful.

I would happily start over immediately if he will. I don't have much hope right now.

Bliss,

I had been wondering this for a while, but have been hesitant to speak. I would echo what everyone is saying here and confront him on it. A guy who has that idea is *not* happy in the marriage. He's used you as an excuse. If he doesn't want to talk, write a letter to him and hand deliver it. Tell him you screwed up big time with his besty, but not making the same mistake again and won't reduce yourself to "a 2nd place booty call" until he pulls his head out and makes a decision.

Adultery begins in the heart. In that sense, we have all been guilty of it one way or another.

CV

He insists that I could have said no and he would have dropped it. As i've said though, I determined in my own mind that he wasn't happy and would resent me. He never said that would happen.

The hurt comes from who I was with. Deep down I think he knows he's not innocent. He knows he shouldn't have asked.

My work schedule and living situation are a little funky right now. Making posts from my phone at work is difficult enough. I have to sit down when I have enough time at my computer to email the radio show.

Oh, no, you don't, regretful's husband.

He is attempting to make you be the one who was holding the bag last and the true 'owner' of the blame. The outrageous thing was that he made the suggestion in the first place!

Knowing deep down is not the same as being confronted by his victimized wife.

He did tell me this at the time, but as I've said before, I'm crazy and made up a scenario in my mind that may not have come true. Dropping it then doesn't mean he would have dropped it entirely, but he would have done it.

He does deserve blame for asking me for the open marriage, something I obviously couldn't handle, but I deserve blame after that. He knows what he did and I know what I did. I don't want to keep rehashing the same thing over and over again. I want us to be able to move past it. Together or apart, constantly going over the same hurtful details won't help us. True, we both need help dealing with the feelings that brought us to the point where he asked me and I felt compelled to do it. I'm doing that now. I hope someday he'll do that also. I really did understand why he asked me, but it still hurt.

I have confronted him, but right now it only starts huge fights and I don't want that. I want to stop fighting about the same thing all the time. It's exhausting for both of us. We do love each other and don't want to keep hurting each other. So I don't want to keep trying to assign blame. He knows he asked something he shouldn't have, something he's very sorry for, but I know from that point forward I wasn't completely honest about how I felt and I pursued a course that did permanent damage to our marriage. All I want now is to be able to move forward. I know that means fixing the damage from the past, but it doesn't mean we have to keep dissecting it all the time.

Your H is fence sitting because your desire to save the marriage allows him that luxury.

If he's so adamant about not going to marriage counseling then it may be time for you to consider filing for divorce.

Now before somebody tries to crucify me for even bringing up such blasphemous suggestion, please realize that a divorce filing can be withdrawn. And of course it shouldn't be used as a manipulation tool to bring back a fence sitting spouse. The point is to convey to him that you have come to the realization that despite all your efforts to save the marriage that it is impossible to do so all by yourself and that if he's not willing to join you then it is time for the two of you to end the marriage and to go your separate ways.

This should not be construed as an invalidation of your efforts to save your marriage or to stop to doing so, but you should at least give it some serious consideration in lieu of his latest "He wants to live a single life and do whatever he wants. He doesn't want to be married"

This is absolutely correct. I haven't read this whole thread, but when a spouse refuses to commit to marital recovery there are only 2 outcomes: a long slow death of a thousand cuts that will eventually lead to a divorce or a divorce. The long road or the short road, in other words. Having no plan to recover is a plan to fail. \

As far as marriage counseling goes, traditional marriage counseling is so destructive to marriage that I would never trust my marriage to that. But there are resources here that can transform your marriage. It can be done on your own [if you are very self disciplined] or via the MB counseling center.

A shout out to TMCM: good to see you, friend!!

My husband has not refused to work on it altogether. He has asked for time to figure out what he wants. I am not filing for a divorce unless he makes it very clear that he never intends to work on it and doesn't want to be with me. I'm not doing either of us any favors by doing that. It's been only 6 weeks since he found out and i've spent a good portion of that time being pretty crazy. He's had to deal with my emotional breakdowns on numerous occasions which didn't allow him to deal with his own issues. Hopefully, having some time apart, but still talking will allow him to really think about what he wants. I know that being apart is not the way to work on our marriage, but he needs to have time to process everything.

Ok that's a good update. It shows that the marriage is not on life support just waiting for someone to pull the plug.

Just one favor, if you please. Why did you post the confusing and contradictory information below?:

On a couple of occasions he's told me he's done, that he didn't need any more time to think about it. Usually I respond by getting extremely emotional and calling him over and over again sobbing into his voicemail. That was a very bad day. In order to function at work I got angry. We both were and we both said things that were hurtful. We did work that out and have been talking since. I have to keep reminding myself that he's confused. He loves me and misses me, but he's still angry with me. I am the first to admit that I'm impatient. I know I want to work on the marriage and it's hard to put myself in his place to know how difficult it must be to make figure out what to do. So when he says things that make me feel like he's moving on or pulling away, I overreact. So, I apologize for posting the contradictory information. We have a lot of work to do if he wants to try. Until then, I have a lot of work to do on myself.

Since there was an attempt to have intercourse, there is still the possibility of you having contracted an STD from the OM. I say this because you and his wife may not be the only women that he has been intimate with. Have you gotten tested yet?

TreadJack Alert,

Holy Smokes, the CoffeeMan is back. Good to see you back CoffeeMan. Hope all is well with you.

JL

Hi JL,

Thank you and to MelodyLane as well.

My wife (second) died of cancer just a little over 2 years ago. The girls and I were devastated. But I am now a grandpa to a beautiful and healthy baby girl. Through sadness and happiness, life goes on.

My apologies to you OP, regretfulinMD, for the treadjack.

CoffeeMan,

I am so sorry to hear this news. On the up side congratulations on being a Grandpa. You have been missed.

God Bless,

JL

Just wanted to update everyone. We are going to work on this together. I don't know if he can get past this, but he's at least willing to put in some work now.

That he's willing to work with you is good news! Do you have a plan?

I'm saddened by this news.

Have you watched all the Harley videos?
Go to first thread (sticky) on this forum.