Help! this is my 1st try at this. I am sitting here home alone because I am in a terrible slump and my husband (who had the affair on me) decided to go away for the long weekend because he can no longer take that I haven't gotten over this yet and reminding him how bad he was. This weekend is the 1 yr anniversary I discovered the affair which had gone on for a year before I finally found ALL the evidence. Happy anniversary. Sick I know. The problem is they are both very well known in public and very out there and work together in church. Absolutely nobody knows about the affair so absolutely nothing has changed not to draw attention and bring up questions. What tipped the scales again is that we obviously have mutual friends and were all together a few days ago and she intentionally walked up to my child sitting next to me and initiate a conversation with my child then walk away. I almost threw up. I'm still sick. I wanted to call her on it and tell her parameters that she can't cross. My husband on the other hand said not to go there because God calls us to forgive and I need to forgive her and move on. Yes the affair is over, yes he has changed his behavior. He still works side by side with her at church so no one finds out and I feel trapped because I know I don't think I could live with anybody finding out or destroying our children. Both parties are married with children. Does anybody know how to handle the other woman still being everywhere in our community and our life.

How does it feel to be an enabler?

Sorry you are here but welcome.


Nope, he went away because he is still seeing the OW.

Are you ready to stand up and fight for your M and end this A????

.................because we can help you do that.

But we can't help you if you continue to enable the A.......

Enabling and volunteering to be an accessory to the crime comes at a very high price. You are paying that price by keeping the secret of the infidels. That is good for the affair but, as you can see, it is not good for you.


Did you open your Bible and check out what he said? Where does it say that "forgiveness" means hiding the wrongdoing of sinners? Where does it say that you should forgive UNREPENTANT SINNERS who still live in sin under a veil of secrecy?

I betcha he wasn't throwing around bible quotes when he was involved in an affair. His use of them now is seems far too convenient and more than a little hypocritical. However, hiding behind one bible quote unfortunately leaves him at odds with other bible quotes and stories.



Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. Ephesians 5:11


Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you,[a] rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:3-4

no he is not with her. He has all our children. He is destroyed by all the pain this he has caused. He is devasted by the christian witness he has destroyed. His behavior has completely changed. He cries just wanting me to have joy again. But we both know we don't want to draw any attention to this so I don't know how to get over that feeling of being trapped.

OK so he has no access to a phone or a computer?????

Because my WH has contact with his OW constantly even when he has his two children....

What a crock. God condemns adultery!

imtrampled, you need to leave this community. That is the only way you'll be able to recover from this terrible thing that your husband and that skank did to you.

im, who knows about the affair? I suspect your wayward husband and you both decided to avoid airing your dirty laundry - bad choice.

Just not "destroyed" enough to repent and end contact with his lover, huh? And what makes you believe he is not with the OW? How do you know? Your children have already been introduced to his lover so they are accustomed to her. They have been dragged down into hell too.


You mean HE wants to cover up his crime and you are helping him hide it so he can continue his affair.

Why have you not informed OWH of the A? Do you not think he has a right to know...just as you did?

If you don't care about saving your M, at the very least give the OWH a chance to fix his....

God help you when your child finds out that you ALLOWED her to be exposed to this vile monster. SHE WILL BLAME YOU FOR THAT. You should have protected her from her daddy's adultery partner. I have no doubt that your DD has seen the OW ALOT and is being told she is "daddy's friend." It is very likely he is with the OW now.

But since you have helped the OW and her lover keep the affair secret, your H is free to take your kids around her.

And she does this because she knows that SHE CAN. She knows that she can do whatever she wants including having an affair with your H and approaching your children in public and you will do....nothing....

As long as they work together the affair continues and unless you are willing to wake up and do something about it, there isn't much that we can do to help you.

Destroyed yet he thinks it is OK to see his OW at work every day and for OW to approach your children in front of you....

You are being gaslight'ed...big time!

When I showed him all the evidence as I found all the emails, all the texting and phone log he flopped open Proverbs 5 1-12 which was worn out in his book. He says she wanted everything and according to all the emails she definitely did, but he said by Gods grace he never became intimate with her but she wasn't afraid to tell him what she wanted and what she could do for him and he wasn't afraid to say how attracted he was to her. It still makes me ill thinking the conversations they shared. But then he would have moments of sanity and he told her to leave him alone several times and I can see the gaps in the emails but some how she would worm her way back in. It usually came back with her asking how to deal with her own marriage problems. He said once he realized what he had gotten himself into he did everything to hide it so I wouldn't find out until he figured out how to get out of it himself. But am I supposed to be happy that they didn't become intimate. I am crushed by feeling so violated by all the secret talks and him exposing our private life with her. And is that the reason to leave her in our life.

Why do you choose to live like that when you don't have to?

You could have killed this sinful, despicable affair a long time ago by just exposing it. Instead, you have become the accessory to the crime.

WHY?? Why would you do that to your children?

Your H is probably with her now and I have no doubt your kids have been exposed to her numerous times. They are being taught that wrong is right by your husband and probably sense something is wrong.

But since no adult will validate their sense of right and wrong, they are thinking there is something WRONG with them. Do you think that is right to do to a CHILD?

Why won't you stand up for your marriage and your children?

ther are so many twists to this entire scenario. Her husband did find out, she told him, but because they didn't become intimate her husband didn't care. The OW has become vile toward MH immediately after the 2 of us finally broke it off with her. It ended with an email that we composed together stating that I know everything and she is done. MH became transparent after that and his cell and emails have become fully accessable to me and he showed me everytime she tried to get in contact with him. So I really saw the claws come out. Side by side we stood watching the text come thru and we did not respond back and so they became more and more vile. But then the vile anger came out in me of how he could ever get messed up with someone so sick. There is no other way to explain it. Now that her words are gone, the ugly is all that is left. She is so sick to think that she had no problem with him betraying me, but she could not handle him cutting all contact off with her and she did everything to painfully manipulate. This affair is text book. That stuff I was going thru made me feel like I was loosing my mind. Then I read a book and it was like it was written about me. I went thru every stage there was.

Have you spoken to him yourself??

Did her husband tell you with his own lips that he knows of the affair? Have you shown him all the emails and texts? HOW do you know he knows?

And the fact that your H still sees her at church and takes her messages is enough to tell me he is not serious AT ALL about recovery. He has not even ended contact.

And yes, you will lose your mind, because the affair has not ended. Your H is the alcoholic who still drinks. You haven't even done STEP ONE that is required for recovery.

By keeping the affair secret, you have allowed it to continue.

he wasn't afraid to say how attracted he was to her.

It really sounds like he needs to recognize his involvement too. Matthew 5:28 says: But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Also, they may not have been intimate (sex) but they did have intimate conversations that should NEVER have taken place.

This needs to be exposed. Rest assured Ephesians 5 is your biblical back-up for exposure. God will honor this. It will not be easy but He will get you thru it. Begin with her BH.

imtrampled, you are in such a BS fog that I am not sure that we can get through to you.

If your WH is so "destroyed", then have him take a polygraph to PROVE to you that this was not 1) a physical affair and 2) that the affair is over. I can guarantee you that he will NOT agree to take that polygraph because he is still lying to you.

And please read all that Dr Harley has written about affairs. There is NO RECOVERY as long as the affairees have any contact at all....the affair continues.....

Good luck!

imtrampled,

Appropriate name. I have been where you are. The OW in my sitch was a neighbor and someone I believed to be my friend. Our kids were best friends. My DH and OW also wanted to sweep it under the rug. My OW also persisted in using my kids to initiate contact and also to make herself look like the "good guy." I had no idea what to do and thought I should just "forgive" and get on with life.

I can tell you first hand that you will die a death of a thousand cuts if you continue to live the way you are and I don't know how you have made it through one year without going completely insane.

Listen to the people here. You have gotten sound advice.

Click on the "How to survive Infidelity" link in the red box on the right of this screen and start reading. Things will then start to make sense to you.

Educate yourself on affairs and how to recover from them. You have a lot to learn ... so did I. You CAN recover from this but not by the current path that you are taking.

You need to gather evidence and expose her at your church. I believe that this is a biblical method of dealing with her.

Do not be swayed by your husbands words. He is complicitly involved.

imtrampled, this is simple:

1) Expose the affair instead of covering it up. That includes telling leadership of the church, as well as telling the OW's husband yourself.

2) If the leadership of the church reacts properly, they will request that one of you (either you & your H, or the other couple) leave the church for good. If they do NOT take this fundamental step to separate affair-partners, then it means that they have not a clue about how to deal properly with affairs, and that you'll be better-off in another church, one whose leaders have a clue.

3) Give the other couple one week to leave the church; and if they don't, then you & your husband leave & find another church.

Look: I'm a guy who got into an affair with a woman that I sang with on a church music team. I've seen this stuff from the inside. I know what I'm talking about.

My marriage wasn't saved by covering up the affair. My life wasn't turned back around from the verge of a cliff by pretending it didn't happen. My wife didn't recover peace-of-mind by allowing anyone to misuse holy scripture to scare her away from doing what needed to be done to save our marriage. The Bible I've read is very big on the light of truth, not covering up lies. (You can look this up yourself.)

You're never going to feel secure as long as she's in contact with your husband. Why do you put up with it? Don't you want to save your marriage?

Ping me back here if you have questions about any of this.

Why do you permit the other woman to still be in your lives?

Your marriage will never recover -- you will never feel emotionally safe, no matter what else you try -- as long as your husband & his other woman remain in contact.

As for your children being 'destroyed' by finding out about the affair, consider this: When your marriage crumbles, they'll find out ANYWAY, plus your marriage will be gone. Don't you think THAT will affect your kids pretty adversely? But that's exactly where you're headed.

The way you handle this is you let Truth take precedence over false-fronts. End the facade your husband & this other woman continue to live. And if your husband is part of the church leadership, then the longer the coverup goes on, the more complicit you will be in the scandal. You are God's creation! So please respect yourself enough to refuse to live these lies any longer.

I am here to encourage you, not to criticize you. I want you to know that there IS hope for marriages hit with infidelity. There IS forgiveness. Love casts out fear. Just as God says. I know this.

But: To get where you want to be in your relationship with your husband, you need to separate the affair partners permanently -- that's step #1 in saving a marriage & making it better than it was before the affair. If that requires telling other people why, then you must expose the affair.

imtrampled, I'm so sorry you have found yourself in this position, but you have discovered Marriage Builders and you will get some very good help.

You have basically been in some sort of "Plan A" for a year now, which is extremely detrimental to your health.

From the veteran posters' advice so far, here is an the outline of what needs to happen:

1.) Set up a polygraph test to get all the information you will need to know the extent of the affair. Get a good tester. It will be worth it for the peace of mind that you at last have all the necessary information.

2.) Make sure the OW's betrayed husband knows. Don't take anyone's word for it; talk to him yourself to make sure. His watchfulness on their end will make the adultery more difficult.

3.) Inform your husband immediately that in order to recover the marriage, a No Contact letter must be handwritten by him, delivered by you, and adhered to. He must never see or be in any form of contact ever again with his adultery partner. It may mean a move from the community. A move is not the worst thing that can happen.

4.) It sounds as though he has given you his passwords, so that's good. You both need complete transparency in all aspects of life. You need to know at all times what his schedule is and how the family monies are being spent.

5.) He must commit to rebuilding the marriage. (Marriage Builders principles are a great way to start, and in the opinion of most of the posters, the BEST way.)

Your marriage cannot possibly recover if he still sees the OW or in any way is in contact with her. The contact will keep him from rebuilding the romantic love with you and is besides a terrible offense to you.

If he does not cease all contact with OW immediately, expose the affair. This will shed light on the adultery and cause them to see the light of day. Your husband may become very angry, but the adultery needs to be exposed, so people can not only support you but also pressure him to end the contact. Your children need to know, too.

The vets will give you some great spot-on advice. Please listen to them.

I think the question you have to ask yourself is this how much longer do you want to live the life you are living, I think this is a situation that will change who you are and you will eventually break down and you will live a very unhappy life.......
I would speak to your husband and just tell him that this does not work for you and that if he insists on life like this that you should separate until he is ready to live his life without his OW in it........
I also agree that you should speak to the OW's husband yourself...........this situation is not right.........your husband needs to step up to the plate for you and your family......not protect and stay in contact with his OW, he needs to stop hiding behind scripture..............he is doing that to control you..
You need to give yourself boundaries and don't settle for less than that, if your husband is forced to think about ending the life he knows he might not think the life you are living right now is worth losing everything for...........
but he will never have to chose which life if you enable him to have the one he wants.............
It starts with you being firm about what you need, this isn't just about him.....

imtrampled, please listen to Gloveoil and expose this affair wide and far. Your children need to be told also. I suspect your kids have been exposed to this skank on more occasions than you are aware of. They are probably very confused because their dad is teaching them wrong is right.

When I was a little girl, my dad introduced me to his mistress. [he had her laid up at a motel] This did not seem right to me, but since no adult validated my instincts of right and wrong, I concluded I must be a stupid girl since what seemed wrong to me apparently was not wrong to adults. My mother cried and cried, but never said anything against this affair. Her silence was the same as endorsement.

I learned early on to doubt my instincts about right and wrong and grew up profoundly morally confused. Don't do that to your kids. Tell them about the affair and tell them that OW is the enemy of their family. Explain to them what is wrong with adultery. Please guide them through this tough time and help them understand what is happening to their family.

The deacons and elders (and pastor if he's not the pastor) need to know about this. It is not good to cover up sin, let alone to cover it in the church. One or the other needs to find new employment, there can be no contact between them for life. Sin has repercussions. Here are a few that your H will have to live with:

1) Living a life of repentance before you (this will have to last until you are satisfied, not him) per II Corinthians 9-11

2) He needs to break contact with the one with whom he sinned. Not give him the opportunity to sin again. That means no contact for life with the other woman.

3) She needs to have no contact with your family

4) Because sin has repercussions (even though forgiveness may be given), he now has a different set of rules he must live by. He gave up that freedom when he had an affair.

5) Nathan help David accountable for his adultery with Bathsheba. Your husband needs to be accountable too. The nature of his sin and the nature of his position in the community makes him publically accountable. It should not be covered up.


Love covers a multitude of sins, but not every one. Likewise, forgiveness is a process, not a single act.

CV

And matthew 18 as well. The cover up will destroy the church when it comes out... And it will come out.

What does real repentance look like Biblically?

Here is a short excerpt from a paper I wrote on this:


It is clear that Paul has discipline in mind as he speaks to the Corinthians. Though he was saddened by the fact he had to admonish and rebuke, he saw the necessity of it as well as the subsequent fruit. Paul�s admonition brought what he describes as, a godly grief and as such says they suffered no loss. That is, no damage was done to their souls as a result of the rebukes. What Paul is rejoicing in then is what the puritans refer to as a �true evangelical repentance�, that is a lasting repentance which is for the right reasons, the nature of which he goes on to describe in subsequent verses.

2Co 7:10-11 for godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (11) For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.


Paul now, after having established what true repentance is, grief borne from God, he now proceeds to describe what the nature of true repentance looks like. The apostle tells us that godly grief produces in the broader sense, repentance, or turning from sin, that leads to , that is, salvation. This contrast of true and false repentance is first put in the context of salvation versus death, speaking of our eternal state. It is in this context that true Christian repentance is explained. True Christian repentance is repentance without regret as the ESV states. Perhaps a better rendering of verse 10 might be this:

�For sorrow according to God accomplishes a reformation (or repentance) that saves and is irrevocable (without regret), but the grief of the world fashions (or brings) death.�

The true work of God, Paul says is one that does not bring regret, because it is not a false repentance. The apostle describes a repentance that is irrevocable because it is a God-given repentance and thus, we do not have to despair over it. The contrast with a worldly grief, that is a temporary turning from the sin, is in Paul�s understanding a matter of life and death. So true repentance then produces a desire, which may be evidenced visibly in the repentant believer. So as Paul begins his discourse in verse 11, we see the product, or fruit, of what God-given repentance brings.

Paul in verse eleven gives us seven marks of true repentance. Let�s consider each one in order:

1. Earnestness: Firstly and most generally, there is an earnest desire that becomes a Christian who is truly repentant. This σπουδή (spoude) signifies haste, or a speed that accompanies repentance. I believe that what Paul is trying to get across to his readers is that when the offending party encounters God-given repentance there is a haste or speedy desire to make things right. It is recognition that the offending party desire to make things right before God and his fellow man. Calvin notes in his commentary that this earnest desire �we may understand from what is opposed to it; for so long as there is no apprehension of sin, we lie drowsy and inactive. Hence drowsiness or carelessness, or unconcern, stands opposed to that earnest desire� � This earnestness then is tied to the desire to speedily remedy the wrong done by the sinner.

2. Eagerness: Secondly, there is an eagerness to clear yourself. Literally, to give an apology or defense. Calvin notes that rather than give a defense or excuse for the sin, the word �� (apologion) is used in the sense of asking pardon. The plea, or apology, then is not to excuse the sin, but rather to seek mercy and forgiveness from the one who has been offended . The idea is akin to coming and throwing yourself at the mercy of the court rather than giving a defense of your case to prove your innocence in the particular matter. This signifies a differentiation in attitudes. The person who has not truly been apprehended by God with true repentance seeks to justify or give reason for the sin committed, but the person truly gripped by a godly sorrow has a humble and contrite attitude. They do not seek to give an explanation for why they sinned so much as they seek mercy for their sin, recognizing that they are without excuse.


3. Indignation: This is indignation towards their sin and even against themselves. This is a righteous, godly indignation, which accompanied with the other evidences, does not lead to a morbid introspection, but rather an outcry against the sin committed. The sinner then seems angry at the sin and even at themselves for having engaged in it, knowing that there is only himself to blame for having engaged in that sin. This is more intense than sorrow Calvin says, because it has become the first step towards hating evil . Thomas Watson comments in his treatise on true repentance that our indignation and sorrow for our sin should be of the same measure as the sin committed . He notes that the failure to weep over our sin is directly connected to our view of the riches of Christ�s mercy and grace poured out upon us !

4. Fear: What alarm or terror Paul says was produced as a result of repentance. This alarm, this phobos), derives from a sense of divine judgment. This stems from the knowledge that at the last day, every man must give account for his own actions. Proverbs tells us that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.


5. Vehement desire: Paul accompanies fear with vehement desire, or longing. Whereas fear may stem from a natural inclination, according to Calvin, this longing is a more conscious desire rooted in the desire to not commit the sin anymore and thus risk God�s condemnation .

6. Zeal: Paul builds to a climax his exposition of the fruits of repentance. Building off the previous two fruits, fear and longing, Paul adds zeal which is a more intense form in this context of longing. This zeal stems from a desire to make things right as the offender desires to give evidence of his repentance.


7. Revenge: Paul finishes out his discourse on true repentance with revenge. ἐκδίκησις (ekdikesis) means vindication or retribution. True repentance then, also bears the mark of one who wants to vindicate themselves through the demonstration of their repentance. It may be that Paul here has in mind I Corinthians 11:31, where he tells them that if they would judge themselves, they would not be judged by the Lord. Paul here is telling us that if we would judge ourselves, then there would be no need to be chastened by the Lord. Private offenses, says Calvin, need not be handled publicly, but as in the case of the man who was openly sinning by sleeping with his father�s wife, there needed to be a public chastening and also a public repentance on the part of the Corinthians for their tolerance of such a sin .


In some instances, as evidenced in Paul�s description of our 7th point (Revenge), restitution may be in mind. For instance, if a man has taken the goods of another, he may seek to offer repayment for it. This must be a heartfelt restitution. In Luke 19:8, Zacchaeus offers to restore what he stole four-fold. This is a principle which was derived from Numbers 5:7. Important also to note is the fact that this idea was not limited to physical goods (land, money, goods), but extended to false accusations as well. Some sins though, may be so grievous that restitution may never be able to be provided. This must be kept in mind as we cannot separate the doctrine of repentance from Christ our great high priest. It is not possible for us to recompense God for sin against His Holy nature. So how is such a thing accomplished? It is only accomplished in the person and work of our savior, Jesus Christ. Christ has made restitution on our behalf before the Father. He has paid what no man can and has satisfied the righteous requirements of God�s law. Likewise, there may be instances where sin against our brother or sister is so great that restitution may not be possible. It is here also that the grace of God must cover our infirmities. Truthfully, the burden of this rests upon the offended party rather than the offender since it is the offended party who has to provide grace and mercy. Thomas Watson notes that the true child of God seeks the most to be revenged of the sins which have offended God the most . It may be that one of the best ways to avenge the sin is recompensing the one offended.


This may seem like a hard view of repentance, especially in light of the modern evangelical view of sin where grace is cheapened by a �soft repenting�. That is, a repenting that does little introspection does not search the heart and has a view that �God will just forgive whatever I do if I just ask�. Yet, we see David�s words in Psalm 51 regarding how we should view our own sin, where in verse 3, David says �my sin is ever before me�. David�s intent here is not that the threat of God�s judgment is ever before his eyes; rather it is the idea that our hearts should break because our own sin has grieved our comforter. David is saying �my sin is my own fault, and my own sin is before my face� In the Old Testament evidence of true repentance was shown outwardly through various means (shaving one�s head, weeping, sitting in ashes, and clothing one�s self in sackcloth), but in the New Testament Paul shows us a better way. Paul tells us in this passage 1) Our repentance must me God-inspired in order to be genuine repentance 2) Genuine repentance has genuine fruits 3) real repentance is not short-lived (as evidenced in the nature of the fruits it bears), hence the irrevocable nature of the salvation which leads to repentance.




Concluding remarks:


It is important to note that these outward manifestations are evidences of an inward work of the Holy Spirit, for without the Holy Spirit, no true repentance could take place. Paul saw the evidence of true repentance. Paul�s concluding remarks is that they �proved themselves innocent at every point�. This means that he was able to see the evidences of a true repentance in them as they were spurred on by their zeal to prove it. We see that such repentance is also profitable in that comfort is provided to the truly repentant. This is seen in Paul�s general manner towards the Corinthians as he seeks to encourage them as well as the tone of Paul�s words that Christ provides comfort to those who mourn, and even though their sin has caused them sorrow, their repentance if followed by encouragement from the comforter who brings peace in the midst of our turning.
There also appears to be a difference in humility versus humiliation in this passage. Paul sees their repentance and says in essence �it is enough�. He is not requiring them to go beyond the bounds of what Scripture requires. Paul�s primary concern is that their earnestness, their genuineness is seen by God. This is displayed in verse 12 where he says that he desires that they see their care for them is evident in the sight of God. One of the great treasures of the Gospel is that God grants pardon to us in Christ if we truly seek him in repentance. As the great work of the Holy Spirit grips us and takes hold, peace begins to reign in our life knowing, trusting, and resting in the knowledge that not only has Christ defeated death, but He has also defeated sin. It is a living in the midst of the already/not yet. Knowing that God has already justified us, he has already given His Son, our redemption has already been accomplished, His Words of Promise have already been written for our instruction, and yet, we still see through a glass darkly. We have not yet seen the fulfillment of the sanctifying work of the Spirit, Christ�s Kingdom has not yet been finally established; death while defeated has not yet been eradicated. It is the knowledge that we are living in the midst of redemptive history and God�s plans are being worked out in and through us, yes even in the midst of our sin, and His glory is displayed in our repentance.

sorry, the garbage is the greek font that didn't post...

Awesome posts by Celticvoyager! I wanted to comment on the point above and add that when the bank robber robs the bank, you don't "forgive" him by sweeping his sin under the rug and giving him the keys to the bank. You forgive him when he has truly repented, and you don't ever give him the keys to the bank.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with hiding sin. And the issue here is that the sin has not stopped. I don't believe the affair has ever ended. The affair has been hidden by lies and now imtrampled has co-opted those lies by helping the hide it.

If this guy is a position of authority in the church, he needs to be removed because he is an unfit to lead. He is the fox in the henhouse and church members need to know he is not safe to their own marriages.

If your husband is serious about repentance, show him this thread. (You have nothing to lose, because if you & he stay on your present course, you will lose your marriage.) How he responds will tell you how genuine his repentance is.

In fact, if he is serious, have him come here and talk to me and argue & reason it out ...
...Christian sinner to Christian sinner...
...person with "public position in the church" to another person (formerly with) public position in the church.
I'll even talk with him offline if he wants.
He's salvageable, and so is your marriage, but you guys don't have forever before it runs aground on the shoals and founders completely. A year is an awfully long time for any couple to have swept an affair under the rug while the affair-partners remain in contact all the while. It's like trying to suture up a stab wound while leaving the knife-blade inside the victim. And a year after the affair was discovered is an awfully long time for him not to realize this. You can't keep living day-in & day-out facing such callous disregard for your feelings.

im,

I am not surprised that you have not gotten over this yet. Your WH allows the OW to spit in your face and then twists the meaning of the bible around to make you feel like YOU are the one with the problem.

Your WH is a cake eater and is getting his needs met by two women.

To repeat what others have said, here is what you must do if you really want to save your marriage:

1. Expose to the church and to the BH.

2. No Contact at all with OW for life.

3. Complete transparency on WH part.

4. Commitment to a marriage recovery program preferably MB.

5. Move to new community.

Don't be fooled by your WH tears...his actions do not show sincere remorse when he continues to have contact with OW ( a person who almost destroyed your family).

Also, the fact that OW feels comfortable in approaching your children is a huge to me.

I believe that you have come here because your gut is telling you that something is wrong here. ALWAYS listen to your gut.

My apologies for not posting sooner. I was riding the circuit today... One sermon here in town and then a 2.5 hour drive to preach again out west.

Glove is right. If he wants to talk to someone in the ministry he can contact me as well. This is VERY serious. And you realize that as soon as contact is broken there is a chance she will nark on him anyway, right?

On another note, I suspect it was more than an EA.

CV

I'm really sorry you're here. I know that a lot of harsh words have come your way.

You want an easy answer on how to change this situation. The reality is that there is no easy answer.

What strikes me about your husband is that he is an abuser. Why? How could a God loving man be so?

Because he is EXACTLY the kind of hypcrite that Paul writes about in Romans. He talks to the talk and doesn't walk the walk and it is through his behavior that he will turn people away from God by exemplifying exactly the kind of hypocrite Christian that turns non-Christians off, and rightly so.

Why do I say he's an abuser? Because any time you've shown some spine he pulls out the Bible and starts using it against you to keep you in line and control you.

The reality is that adultery is one of the worst forms of abuse someone can inflict on their spouse.

I can also tell you that I'm 100% certain that the affair is anything BUT just emotional.

You need to contact the OWH. Taking your H's word that he already knows and doesn't care is a load of bull. Again, he's controlling you.

The only way you will stop this entire situation is by taking a stand for your marriage and doing the hardest thing you will ever have to do: expose.

Exposure kills affairs because affairs thrive in secrecy. And Melody is right, you're an enabler if you don't stand up for yourself and expose this affair.

You need to expose it to OWH, your parents, his parents, and your close friends and relatives.

Exposure is the only thing that will end your nightmare.

If you want easier answers, then you won't find them here.

So stop letting him use religion as a means to control you.

I say all of this in the spirit of encouragement. You can do this!

One more thought: If you can't be strong for yourself, then be strong for your children.

Trampled, you say you can't live with your children finding out. The problem is that they will find out, if not now, later in life. They already KNOW something is badly wrong, they just don't know what. Say you continue to live with this coverup. What happens to their Christian walk when they find out as adults that they were living a lie while growing up? Their own faith will be questioned. They may believe that this Christanity stuff is a bunch of baloney. They will resent their father for what he did AND you for covering it up.

Let me tell you a story. We had some very good friends who we attended church with. I was part of the music ministry. Our pastor and the wife of our friends were also on the music team. It was suspected that the pastor and this woman were having an affair. Her husband suspected too but did nothing. Eventually the pastor and others began telling this man that he wasn't doing everything God had planned for him. He would disappear for weeks, not attend church, and refused to become more involved in the church. The pastor was "counseling" the wife. Together they made everyone think that their spouses weren't really walking the walk. One Sunday, the wife announced that she was stepping down from the music team for awhile because she was divorcing her husband because he refused to listen to "God".

What we know now is that this man was hurting and that his faith in God was destroyed by what his wife and the pastor were doing. My daughter was close friends with their daughter and ended up overhearing a voicemail from this "pastor" to her mom telling her how much he loved her and couldn't wait till they could be together. She got her divorce and a few months later the pastor stood up in front of the church and announced that they were shutting the doors. Many people were devastated.

To this day, he is still with his wife and the OW is still single and pining over him. The pastor and his wife are leaving the state but are going to allow this OW to move into their house while they are gone. The pastor's wife STILL doesn't know.

The children of the OW are so messed up. Drugs, abortions, and more. All because their dad refused to stand up for his family and expose it all. He could have saved his family, but instead chose to help them keep the secret.

Many people who attended this church also felt betrayed, by the leadership, by this pastor, by this woman. Many left the church (any church) because they were so shaken.

Lives were destroyed by this secret. It affected my own marriage. My husband walked away from his faith shortly after all this went down. I quit going to church myself.

Please don't keep this ugly secret. Expose it for what it is and let God begin to truly work the healing in your marriage and prevent disaster for your children.

IMT;

I am not as well versed in the Bible as the other posters, but one thing I do know is that Jesus always told the truth.

I think he knew the intent of his father pretty well.

No matter how hard it was going to be for him, or how much trouble he knew was going to get into, from the time he was "lost" as a child in the temple up to and including his earthly death -
--- --- -- he. always. told. the. truth.

Your husband is trying to imply that God wants you to ignore the truth..

This woman and your husband have wronged you.

This woman is continuing to abuse you by contacting your children, in front of you.. she is continuing to intimidate you.



Matthew 18:15-17
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.

But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

This woman needs to beg your forgiveness. She needs to leave your family alone, and never have contact with your family again.

I think the vets have summed up what your wandering husband needs to do pretty well.

Forcing you to stay silent and allow this woman contact with your children (while you sit there and smile??)is a deliberate twisting of the word of God, I believe.

Your husband is doing this for many reasons, fear being one.

..and I guess a strong attraction of your WH to still see/talk to/seek out and counsel his affair partner.

The reason it is eating you up inside is because you know this is wrong, and you are being forced to comply to twisted logic.

I am sorry you are here. I am sorry that you are being pressured by the one you love to continue to harm yourself, and your family by hiding the soil of his emotional affair (P/A?) against you.

Barbie has hit an important point:

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. - Christ as God came and took on humanity in truth. John goes on a few verses later to tell us that the truth came through Jesus.

John goes on a few chapters later to record for us Christ's own words:

Joh 8:31-32 "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, (32) and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth. (john 15 &16)

Paul picks up the same thing in I Corinthians 13:6 where he tells us that love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

Does this mean that the truth is easy and always pleasant? No! It means that we take comfort knowing that it is the truth that sets us free. Lying, covering up, hiding brings bondage and oppression. Sin begets more sin. Bringing the truth to light is freeing, and we rejoice not in the pain of what the deed was, but in the fact that we stand open and clear before God and man... With a clean conscience.

The 9th commandment: Do not bear false witness still applies to us as much as don't kill and don't commit adultery. It is a pretty simple command from scripture. In the Hebrew it reads like this:

lo anah shav ed reyah:

no giving witness of lying/false testimony of your neighbor ( brother, companion, fellow, friend, husband, lover, neighbour)

look at all those different types of people that are included in the meaning of that one word that is translated as neighbor... Covering for someone's sin is lying. it is giving a false testimony. You are projecting an intentionally false image of that person(s) when you cover for them.

The truth is what needs to be told to your church and your children. So they are free to understand rightly as well

CV

im,

You and your husband are living your lives believing that nobody else knows.


This is like walking around with a rag over your eyes believing nobody can see you.

The only way you will EVER experience any peace in this church is to go to the pastor and tell him what happened.

You will not experience any peace if you change churches, because you cannot leave the truth hanging in the rafter of the church - the rumor mill will worm its way to your new church.

Find your peace with confession and guidance with your pastor.


Your religion is literally BASED IN FORGIVENESS

for the sake of your children


use your own tenets to save your marriage.

Thanks, Schoolbus. I agree with your point, assuming your point was that they can't simply change churches and NOT further expose the affair to anyone at all.

imtrampled is so new to MB concepts that the fundamental importance of exposure (in killing affairs & ensuring that they stay dead) is foreign to her. In the same way, the (I would say even more) fundamental importance of "no contact, for life" is also foreign to this poster.

I believe it was not your intention for it to be so -- and I don't think this is what you meant -- but I think that, taken out of its context, your statement above could be misconstrued to suggest that changing churches won't help. When rather, indeed, it might not only help, but might possibly be a sine qua non, a factor without which her marriage can't recover, if the other woman insists on staying put. It may well be that imtrampled & her husband can only establish no-contact by changing churches. (Not necessarily, but possibly, this may turn out to be the case.) At this point, it at least needs to be on the menu of options for imtrampled & her husband.

If they change churches, that does not preclude a reckoning with their obligations at their original church. I do agree that the context in which this affair has taken place requires, at a minimum, that that church's leadership be informed of what's been occurring under their watch; and possibly that the broader church be informed, depending on specific circumstances & the affairees' particular positions (to which we're not yet privy). However, I just want it to be perfectly clear to imtrampled that changing churches may need to happen in order for the marriage to recover.

FWIW, my wife & I changed churches after my affair. In the days & weeks after my affair ended, the necessity of this for us became clear enough to my wife & to our marriage counselor and finally to me. We'd told the church leadership of the affair within 24 hours after d-day, but in our circumstances, the move away from that church was also necessary. From a recovery standpoint, even though the other woman & her husband also left that church, being in that church still would've been a tremendous source of ongoing triggers for my wife & me both had we remained there.

First off, sheesh! I don't know what is worse, my typing or my creative spelling, MB I apologise.

Glove Oil makes an excellent point. MB thinking is probably a 180 for IMT. Her current thinking has been in place for months, after a horrible shock. Sometimes the BS feels shame, too.
These emotions can make you vunerable.

I am not speaking for IMT, I have been there, under different circumstance, and basic, fundimental changes in rational thinking do not come in an instant.

If someone tells you what to think, and you agree to this thinking for a long time, well - ie; if someone tells you something enough, you really can start to believe it.

We can not expect IMT to change her thinking without reading the MB rationale behind it.

IMT;
No one here will blame you for the A your H had.

No one thinks your stupid, no one wants you to leave.

I dont know why but I sense a lot of shame in play here, on a lot of levels.

Maybe my spider sense is off tonight... but.

You should not feel shame because you cant automatically forgive this A. That will come, but for most it takes time.

Here at MB we think about marriage and recovery differently than most.
This even includes some marriage counselors.

What you seem to be describing is silent inaction and quietly painful to you.

To "MB ears" it is a screaming siren with red flags.

It is an excellent place for you to be.

You should read Surviving and Affair- right away.

It has nothing to do with "reading MB rationale," but with enabling. What do you want her to go read to get that? I can think of nothing. She doesn't need to read a book to get that. She can read the posts here telling her to stop being an enabler. And yes, we do expect IMT to stop enabling by reading our posts. That is the point, after all. We give her advice for a reason: THAT SHE WILL USE IT.

I don't understand why you think she can't follow the advice given here. We fully expect she will wake up and stop enabling her husbands affair. That is the point. We need to be encouraging her to take some decisive action now and stand up for her marriage, not giving her excuses to continue destructive behavior. When people come here for help they dont' have time to gradually change their thinking. The Titanic is sinking NOW, not next year, so urgency is important.

Yes, ML, but Barbiecat has just simply said that IMT needs to take time to read here. I didn't read any kind of "rationale", but rather to learn up on the priciples and educating herself right here.

Should she not learn/read Basic Concepts first? Maybe she's already done that..can't read the enire thread tonight. If she has, does she need help with Basic Concepts then?

No, the Basic Concepts will come in handy when she is ready for recovery. She is far from that point right now and needs to focus on the problem at hand. What Barbie said is that we cannot expect IMT to change her thinking without reading the MB rationale behind it. I disagree. There is nothing TO read about enabling. Everything has been said here. I expect her to change her thinking about the biggest problem, ie: enabling, by reading our posts. There is nothing about enabling in the Basic concepts, after all.

So no, I don't expect her to read the Basic Concepts at this time, which does not address her issue and would be a distraction. That will come in handy when she is ready for recovery.

p.s. we have told her everything in our posts that would help her at this time. For example, her next steps need to be exposure. We have explained this principle to her and when she responds, we can help her with a specific plan to do that. It would be good for her read Surviving an Affair, but it is not required to take first steps or to change her thinking about exposure.

"The Titanic is sinking NOW, not next year, so urgency is important."

Agreed, but folks need to learn the concepts first, no? If we (anyone...not YOU.. whoever) don't take the time, seems to me that there is so much time lost (wasted) with new posters fighting the game plans and such.

Yes, we are teaching her the concept of EXPOSURE right now. That is being taught right now.

Surfer, and once again I see you telling other posters how to post instead of picking up a shovel yourself. There is nothing stopping you from helping others here. Rather than trying to instruct those of us who are doing the heavy lifting, how about picking up a shovel yourself? I have a certain approach with newcomers and I am happy with that approach. But you are free to post whatever you choose.

You know what, ML? Point well taken. And jives with your new thread about the vet defintion. I've been here for almost 3 years (not registered for as many), and I can probably stop deferring to the "vets", huh?

Nah...not trying to tell other posters how to post...but, comes off that way, obviously. I'll be more confident in my posts. Thanks, sista.

IMT, are you still here?

Most likely she is not. But, she will return, when her sitch is worse off than it is now. And then she will be SCREAMING for advice. My hope is that she IS around now, and will take the advice already given.

How many times I have wished that I would have found MB earlier, but then I think, I may have been one of those posters who wasn't ready to actually do what it takes. When someone is at that point, you can see it, because they actually DO what is suggested to them.

Everyone needs time to process.

But --
What a great world it would be if everyone "got it" from the get go.

MB thinking IS different. If you do not understand the REASON behind a full, honest and concise exposure, it may make little sense to a new poster to do so.

Exposure can certainly go against many "gut feelings" some BS have. (In my first MB readings, myself included.)

I have hope that IMT is still reading..

....trust.
A new poster may not have trust in MB yet. I appreciate I walk a path, you use the freeway. The more MB I read, the more I got it.

But sending her off to read books will not help her understand what we are saying. Please let us help her instead of sending her off on wild goose chases. That is not helpful to her. Don't be part of the problem, Barbie.

When someone is bleeding out, the first move is to stop the bloodletting, not read a First Aid manual, yes?

The same idea applies here. IMT no doubt is reeling from her H's A, and is now finding out that covering up the sin and going on with their lives isn't going to work. That can be a paralyzing thought for some people.

But sending her off to read books will not help her understand what we are saying.
Sure it will.
Please let us help her instead of sending her off on wild goose chases.
Reading SA is not a wild goose chase, it is great advice for her.
That is not helpful to her. Don't be part of the problem, Barbie.
....wow. How where you get that? I did not realise I was part of this posters problems. Nor do I wish to add to them.

I advised her to read the MB material.
Unless there is something new from Dr. H. I have not read yet, I believe the best way to learn MB is to read Dr. H's words.

....pardon for my confusion! I am not here to quarrel, nothing I have said is against MB advice, nor do I feel advising reading SA is bad advice.

Everyone have a good day, Peace out.

What you are telling her is that she needs to go and read some more BEFORE she can take action. That is very counterproductive and I consider that kind of advice to be destructive. Of course we want her to read SAA, however, she is in a terrible situation that threatens her mental health. Action needs to be taken NOW, not later.

If you want to help here, then encourage her to take action rather than encourage her to drag her feet. Women have nervous breakdowns over affairs, Barbie. That is not the time to drag one's feet.

Let's read Dr Harley's own words about what to do when there is an affair:

here

Nowhere in his article does he tell someone they need to go off and read his books FIRST before they expose. If you have ever listened to the radio, he has told many a person to hang up and start exposing the affair. He doesn't tell them they have to wait and read SAA or HNHN first. He says expose it IMMEDIATELY. And if they balk, he PERSUADES them to expose the affair. IMMEDIATELY.

Now, would you mind too much if we try and help this lady?

;-)