Marriage Builders
Posted By: Devastated_Again He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/04/11 03:13 PM
For more than 20 years I thought my husband and I had been happily married and we have four beautiful children. I took precautions and also know that I had met most of his emotional needs. Few years ago in 2008, I accidentally discovered my husband had SMS flirting with a woman (let me call her AA). Although it wasn't an affair, it was a blow as I had always trusted him, he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone, overcame my sadness and forgave him. Then 6 months later in Jan 2009, I again accidentally discovered he re-contacted AA, the one he flirted previously. That was the second blow, I cried and cried, but he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone and again forgave him. We went on with life and everything seemed to be fine until March this year, my live-in-domestic-helper (let me call her CC and we have had a few domestic helps within the past 20 years) told me that she and my husband kissed and hugged. As I had been very nice to her, she felt guilty and told me about it. I confronted my husband and he admitted his wrong and asked for forgiveness. I was devastated and couldn't stop crying. To cut the story short, CC finally left, I forgave my husband, we attended a marriage weekend and he has changed since then. Our marriage has been good since then, our sex live is great, but somehow at the back of my mind, I always felt that he was hiding something. Two days ago, I told him my hunch, he initially denied and said nothing happened. I then let him read Dr. Harley's article on "Honesty and Openness" and "The Policy of Radical Honesty-Historical Honesty", he finally confessed that he had heavy patting with three previous domestic helpers and two of them he had sex with once. The last one was BB, the domestic helper replaced by CC for about 6 months. Now he told me his dark secrets, I am now completely lost. I know he really loves me, he is a good father and committed to the family. But why?
Posted By: reading Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/04/11 03:38 PM
Well, do not forgive for a while. That will come WAY down the line if things improve to a place where your marriage is healthy.

It is good that CC told you. Yay for her.
It is good that your H has shown a bit of open and honesty. That is to be welcomed by you. Encourage that to give you info about what you are dealing with and get more in the future from him.

Study Marriage Builder concepts over and over again and hire no more women to keep house.
Why? He has very, very weak boundaries with women and that is the tip of the iceberg of his problems.
It is NOT about you. You are not the problem.
Hopefully you will get more input from others here and direction to look for dealing with this.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/04/11 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
For more than 20 years I thought my husband and I had been happily married and we have four beautiful children. I took precautions and also know that I had met most of his emotional needs. Few years ago in 2008, I accidentally discovered my husband had SMS flirting with a woman (let me call her AA). Although it wasn't an affair, it was a blow as I had always trusted him, he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone, overcame my sadness and forgave him. Then 6 months later in Jan 2009, I again accidentally discovered he re-contacted AA, the one he flirted previously. That was the second blow, I cried and cried, but he was remorseful and begged for forgiveness. I didn't tell anyone and again forgave him. We went on with life and everything seemed to be fine until March this year, my live-in-domestic-helper (let me call her CC and we have had a few domestic helps within the past 20 years) told me that she and my husband kissed and hugged. As I had been very nice to her, she felt guilty and told me about it. I confronted my husband and he admitted his wrong and asked for forgiveness. I was devastated and couldn't stop crying. To cut the story short, CC finally left, I forgave my husband, we attended a marriage weekend and he has changed since then. Our marriage has been good since then, our sex live is great, but somehow at the back of my mind, I always felt that he was hiding something. Two days ago, I told him my hunch, he initially denied and said nothing happened. I then let him read Dr. Harley's article on "Honesty and Openness" and "The Policy of Radical Honesty-Historical Honesty", he finally confessed that he had heavy patting with three previous domestic helpers and two of them he had sex with once. The last one was BB, the domestic helper replaced by CC for about 6 months. Now he told me his dark secrets, I am now completely lost. I know he really loves me, he is a good father and committed to the family. But why?
Welome to MB, DA.

The answer to "why" is the same for all of us; we are all capable of having affairs if we do not erect good boundaries when we are around members of the opposite sex.

For the serial cheater like your H, sloppy boundaries mean that he flirts routinely around women and takes any available opportunity to take things further. Indeed, he pushes to make things go further.

Who was AA? Was she a woman from work? If so, it looks as if your H will take any and every opportunity to get a bit on the side with an available woman. You can stop having domestic servants in the home, but you cannot cut off all his contact from all women. Do you want to go forward in marriage with a man like that? He can change, but he needs to practice Extraordinary Precautions with every waking moment. How will you know if he really does this?

I'm sorry to say that I don't think you have been told the full truth about the extent of his affairs. In your position, I wouldn't be prepared to go forward unless I knew the whole truth. I would schedule a polygraph for him and make sure he goes through with it.

You can read more about polygraphs in our forum Operation Investigate.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/04/11 04:06 PM
ITA - schedule that poly. He more than likely has given you the bare minimum of his activities with other women.

Forgiveness should follow remorseful actions, Devastated. You forgave, but neither of you changed the conditions that led to these affairs in the first place. Must you have a single woman living in your home? That's the perfect set-up for a cheater!

Your WH has done nothing to earn your forgiveness. You had no standards set for allowing him to remain in the marriage, so he lived up to none.

Do you want to remain in this marriage? I would suggest you get the book "Surviving an Affair" - you can get it on this site (click on the Bookstore link) or on online bookstores.

I would also suggest that both of you get tested for STDs as soon as possible. I suspect he's had much more sex than you know. Who knows what cooties even ONE of those women was carrying? frown
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/04/11 04:34 PM
DA, welcome to Marriage Builders. I agree with Sugarcane that there are probably others. I would set up a polygraph test for him and 2 days before give him a list of questions. Give him one last chance to come clean before the polygraph.

I would find out who AA is and expose that affair. Is she married?

In general, the conditions that led to the affairs has to change. No more female domestic help [or maybe hire elderly grandmothers] and no friends of the opposite sex. He should give you passwords to all of his cell phone and email accounts and pledge to never spend the night apart again. Taking those steps will make it harder for him to carry on the secret second life necessary to conduct an affair.
Thank you for your replies. I think I am in a denial mode, still believe that he has told me the truth. I don't know AA, but I will ask my domestic help to go. I will get him to go for a polygraph test.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/05/11 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
Thank you for your replies. I think I am in a denial mode, still believe that he has told me the truth. I don't know AA, but I will ask my domestic help to go. I will get him to go for a polygraph test.
Please don't leave us, DA. I am very worried about you.
Posted By: reading Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/05/11 12:51 AM
Denial mode.
A super fun place to be. Where we believe our honeys and know they are our partner and team mate.
Alas.......the secret second life of a wayward is a complex and fairly scary thing to explore.

Stay with us here and let us help you avoid some common and timewasting actions or nonactions.

K?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/05/11 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
Thank you for your replies. I think I am in a denial mode, still believe that he has told me the truth. I don't know AA, but I will ask my domestic help to go. I will get him to go for a polygraph test.
DA, what questions do you plan to have him answer on the poly?

Why do I get the feeling that you have NO intention of having him take the poly? Why do I have the feeling that you're going to smooth over his indiscretions because it will require effort and conflict to do otherwise? Why do I get the feeling that you wish you'd never posted here?

Do you want to save your marriage, or not??
Posted By: Migs Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/05/11 01:50 AM
DA, I totally agree with the rest. I was gaslighted FOR TWO YEARS. I believed my POS stbxH was NC with OW. I wanted to believe this so badly.

Like you, I told no one of my sitch for TWO YEARS. No exposure, nothing, b/c I "believed" it was a ONS.

I broke every MB "rule" for breaking up affairs and you can see the outcome in my sig line.

If you want to save your M, you MUST follow the steps here. I truly believe you are not being given the whole truth...imho...

I am completely confused, I called the domestic help whom he said he had kissed and sex with, she said NO. Now I don't know whom I am going to belive...
I checked online and there isn't much available in Singapore, I am going crazy, I don't want to continue anymore
Only police has polygraph test, but it's rarely available here
When my wife confessed the number of times she had sex during her first A, I called the OM to verify. He said she was crazy and they only did it once. Denial is a crazy thing.

Singapore, right? I bet they'd take a little extra money for a poly at the police station...
CV, no, the police wouldn't do that, not in Singapore. At the time of writing the first post, I still believed my H told me the truth but the rest of you didn't think so, and you were right. Guessed I was too blind. I was too upset to go to work, so I took a day off, that was when I called BB, the domestic help, whom I had treated very nicely during her employment with us. Then she said nothing happened. It drove me crazy, I was confused and angry. Everybody was lying to me! I got so upset that after talking to her I text my H, scolded him B-----d! He replied "What Now? Why can't we move on?" I cried non-stop at home, was hoping that he would come back, but he didn't. He called but I didn't pick up the phone, half an hour later, he text me whether I wanted him to come home, I didn't reply him as I made up my mind already. He still didn't admit, I was ready to walk out the marriage, it was too much to bear. I took my credit card, passport, a notebook which I could book a ticket online and left the house. I text him that there was no need for him to come back as I already left home. I also let him know that I talked to BB and contacted the other domestic help. I was still confused and didn't know who lied to me, my H or BB. I scolded my H that he was a perpetual liar and a serial cheater. I told him I would not trust him anymore.

I went into a metro, just sat there trying to clear my mind. I text him there was no point to continue and turned off my phone after that. When I turned on the phone again, he was calling me, but I cut it off. He was begging me to go home to talk about that, so I gave him an ultimatum, "Only complete honesty can gain back my trust. If you are willing to come clean with all the women involved in the past, who they were and how long the affair lasted, then I am willing to talk." He didn't reply for a long time, I told myself, that's it, I lost my battle. Yet, I made up my mind that I would not go back until he agreed, there was no compromise, I was determined not to be hurt by him anymore.

I was heading to the airport when my H replied ok. I reached home about an hour later and was no longer the forgiving, loving wife. He then passed me a note and said he was too ashamed to tell in front of me. All of you were right! He had more than he admitted the day before. Apart from the two domestic helps he had sex with, he also had sex twice with AA (who was another domestic help) in her employer's residence! Despicable! Disgusting! Shameless! He had two more one-night-stand while he was on attachment in Thailand. I asked why why? What have I done that he had to have all these extramarital sex? Did I not satisfy him? Did I fall short of anything? BTW, I am not old and ugly, I always maintain myself so that my H will be proud of me when we go out together. He couldn't find a reason to blame me. He said none of the sex involved love. My H begged me and told me that it was all in the past. After the last incident with CC, he is closer to God now and memorizes Bible verses to remind himself not to fall into temptations. He has made a commitment to God that he will not cheat again. He has also agreed that he would be very guarded and draw clear boundaries. No time alone with women, meet my most important emotional needs, i.e. Honesty and Openness. In order not to put himself in a temptation again, he has also agreed not to have any domestic help after the present contract expires, our current domestic help is like an old grandma. Sorry for being so long-winded, I need to explain everything before I could ask the following questions:

1. Can someone have sex with another person without love?
2. Can I trust him that he had told me all his past sexual encounters?
3. Finally, shall I give him another chance?

Thank you for taking time to read and reply.
Posted By: happyheart Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/05/11 12:16 PM
1. yes
2. no
3. maybe
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/05/11 12:39 PM
DA,

First of all give yourself some time to think this through and set up some safety nets for you........
I think your husband's openness about his sexual activities is a good thing, it does show he is trying to be a better man now, it all starts with the honesty and openness if he and you can consider rebuilding your marriage, I know it is hard to hear it, and you have to tell him you have to have it all that any trickle truth later down the road will set you back..........
After you have everything and you are sure there isn't any more contact with any of them then you can take a bit of time and think it through and decide if this is something you can over come..........
There are no guarantees in this world with any relationship, an old one a new one...........
If you are willing to start again that is what you must do, put the bad behind you and focus on today and tomorrow........
You are trying to make sense of something that you can't, selfishness like this does not make sense.............that is a cross he will have to bear it has nothing to do with you or anything you did.
It isn't easy but if you look at it as an opportunity to have a better marriage then it might be a worthwhile effort...........
No marriage is without some issues, financial, abuse, drugs, alcohol........if you started again with someone else they come with baggage as well.........
My advice would be to give yourself time and not rush into any decisions and when you do you do it on your terms........for your sanity and safety.........
good luck and welcome aboard, this is a great place for support ....
jessi
Posted By: Grace4me Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/05/11 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
1. Can someone have sex with another person without love?
2. Can I trust him that he had told me all his past sexual encounters?
3. Finally, shall I give him another chance?

Good morning DA,

I'm not what everyone here calls a "vet" but I am a FWW and a someone who's worked very hard to turn from a lifestyle of lying...

So, can you have sex with someone without loving them? You sure can and I would venture to say that most way-wards do.

As far as the whole truth goes...for most way-wards it's become a habit to lie to their spouses, and probably to most folks around them. While your husband may have very well been truthful in what he's told you so far, it's likely that there is more that needs to be told. As the days, weeks and months go on you will likely find that you have many questions that you NEED answered. It's probably going to be difficult for your H to break the pattern of lying to you, but it can be done if he's willing to put in the effort.

Now, should you stay? Only you can answer that. If you do, it will be the hardest thing you've ever done. There is a lot to be gained and Dr. Harley's books have wonderful tools for both of you. If both of you are willing to work crazy hard and endure with each other down this exceptionally painful road, it could be a new beginning for your marriage.

I will pray for you both today.

Grace
Thank you Reading. He has indeed very weak boundaries with women and we are working on some rules and boundaries now. MB is God sent, without it and all of you, I wouldn't have been able to pull through; I would still believe my husband had told me all his past; I wouldn't realise I needed steps to work on the marriage. I am grateful of all your cares even though I don't know you and I am half the world away from you.
Posted By: Surfer88 Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/06/11 06:08 AM
Have you read the Basic Concepts here? If not, do that first.
Dear SugarCane, you are right to say that all of us are capable of having affairs. Years ago, I was emotionally attached to a man, then I read MB articles and cut off the attachment. Yes, my H's sloppy boundaries allowed himself to get into temptations. I am not sure whether he can practice Extraordinary Precautions with every waking moment, I am still fearful.
Maritalbliss, I have followed your advice to have him decide on remorseful actions and I have also order the book Surviving An Affair. I was worried when you mentioned about STD, so I went to the Internet but I do not have symptoms of STD. I am truly grateful for your advice.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/06/11 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
Dear SugarCane, you are right to say that all of us are capable of having affairs. Years ago, I was emotionally attached to a man, then I read MB articles and cut off the attachment. Yes, my H's sloppy boundaries allowed himself to get into temptations. I am not sure whether he can practice Extraordinary Precautions with every waking moment, I am still fearful.

DA, he should set up his life in a way that he can't be tempted. For example, he should stop all overnight travel. That is an invitation to an affair. All household help should be elderly grandmothers or MEN. You should both brainstorm about ways to set up his life so it will be impossible to have another affair.

Here is what it will take to recover from an affair:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
I have suggested to him that we would do daily devotion & pray together. Instead of waiting for Surviving An Affair to reach Singapore two weeks later, tomorrow I will borrow it from the library. I have also asked him to cut off all contacts of women who were involved with him. No more time spend alone with women. Well, he always allows me to read his text messages and I know all his FB, email accounts; he doesn't spend night out and only travels on official basis, but sigh, he took time off in the morning and went to the domestic help's place and he had one-night-stand while he was on overseas assignment. We did discuss what he should and should not do, but I will use Dr. Harley's book to work on the marriage. It sounds so easy, but I am sure it's going to be an uphill task.
Maritalbliss, MB is the best place I could have gone to, I am not leaving and I need your support. I want to save my marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
; he doesn't spend night out and only travels on official basis, but sigh, he took time off in the morning and went to the domestic help's place and he had one-night-stand while he was on overseas assignment.

DA, if he does leave town again, you would need to go with him. How often does he travel on business?
Reading, I am not leaving and I need your support.
Migs, I know I have broken many rules also. Thought that I was fine until...
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 01:00 AM
Quote
I was worried when you mentioned about STD, so I went to the Internet but I do not have symptoms of STD. I am truly grateful for your advice.
DA, please get tested! Many STDs are asymptomatic! Others require more than one test over a period of time. This is waaayyy too important to blow off by running a google search! Your physician will also perform a manual/visual exam and is trained to look for symptoms that you could miss.

Please do not leave your health to chance! (Ditto for your WH - he needs to be tested as well.)

Jessie, what do you mean by safety nets?

While I agree with you that it is a sign he is trying to be a better man, I am also getting more and more convinced that he still has not told me everything. There are still many questions unanswered, things in the past that I never suspected start to fall in places. It drove me crazy when I kept thinking that he was still lying to me about the past. I am still on the emotional roller coaster ride.
Grace, you have given me an insight of what a perpetual liar can do and the lifestyle of lying is something I couldn't have apprehended without your sharing. Yes, I believe my H still has hidden a lot from you and what I am going to do is to help me to tell me his past bit by bit. This is not to dig in to the past, but to help me to get out of the habit of lying. Thank you for your prayers and I ask God to give me wisdom.
Surfer88, yes I have read the Basic Concepts and will read Surviving An Affair with my husband, I am getting two copies.
Melodylane, I have suggested to him that we would do daily devotion & pray together. Instead of waiting for Surviving An Affair to reach Singapore two weeks later, tomorrow I will borrow it from the library. I have also asked him to cut off all contacts of women who were involved with him. No more time spend alone with women. Well, he always allows me to read his text messages and I know all his FB, email accounts; he doesn't spend night out and only travels on official basis, but sigh, he took time off in the morning and went to the domestic help's place and he had one-night-stand while he was on overseas assignment. We did discuss what he should and should not do, but I will use Dr. Harley's book to work on the marriage.

I am very burdened as I know it's going to be an uphill task as I know he's still hiding something.
Maritalbliss, I remembered there was one time my skin was very itchy, so it became swollen, I never thought that it was my H, so I didn't seek treatment. It's tearing me, ok, I will do it within this week. I will let you know the results.

I am pretty sure my H is still not telling everything, but he insisted that he did. I threw into a rage when I remembered how itchy and swollen I was. He even went to a pharmacy to buy fungus cream instead of seeing a doctor. He said AA somehow just suddenly texted him and targeted him. Common, AA wouldn't have done it so ramdomly, someone must have recommended my H to her. I think all his past flings were like one night stands, he rarely stayed out and often spent his nights and weekends with the family. I suspect my H is a sex addition.

The thing is that he's not going to tell me anything even I keep pushing. He's not going to tell me anything more in the past if I keep throwing my rage and walking out of house. It's very difficult to deal with a perpetual liar.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 02:25 AM
Quote
The thing is that he's not going to tell me anything even I keep pushing. He's not going to tell me anything more in the past if I keep throwing my rage and walking out of house. It's very difficult to deal with a perpetual liar.
DA, I am concerned that you seem to be approaching this in a lackadaisical manner. For example, I stressed the importance of being tested for STDs and your response is to google STDs and decide that you aren't infected. I did a simple google search ("STD symptoms). You know what came up on the first page? This:

"STDs often asymptomatic
You could have an STD and be asymptomatic � without any signs or symptoms. In fact, this happens with a lot of STDs. Even though you have no symptoms, you're still at risk of passing the infection along to your sex partners. That's why it's important to visit your doctor on a regular basis for STD screening, so you can identify a potential infection and get treated for it before passing it along to someone else.
"

Only after I pointed out the same thing did you decide that being tested might not be a bad idea. And that one point you had a suspicious skin problem?? doh2

You were advised from Day 1 to have your WH sit for a polygraph in order to confirm his truthfulness about the extent of his unfaithfulness. Your response?
Quote
Only police has polygraph test, but it's rarely available here


I took the liberty of checking out polygraphers in Singapore. There are many. Why are you not pursuing this valuable tool?

DA, there have been FIVE women that your WH has been unfaithful with - that you know of. And yet, in each case you've cried and have forgiven him - with absolutely NO conditions given to him for allowing him to remain in the marriage, and NO precautions to prevent another affair. DA, if I was naive enough to have a woman living in my house and then found out that my H was canoodling with her, that would be the last nanny to exist in my house! But you turn right around and hire another one??
crazy
Unsurprisingly, you now find yourself in the same place you were in years ago. Do you want to end this cycle of infidelity? I'm not convinced that you do.

Is it because you're afraid? I'm just not understanding you, here.
I only saw one and probably I didn't search hard enough. What am I supposed to say to him? Tell him that I don't trust him and that he must go to polygraph. I am afraid...

He has started to open up and told me some of his sexual activities, if I don't give him a chance now, he would regret his revelation and will never do so. I am afraid...
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
What am I supposed to say to him? Tell him that I don't trust him and that he must go to polygraph. I am afraid...
"BH, I love you and our marrige. But I will not live with lies between us. We cannot rebuild our marriage on a foundation of lies. I would like to schedule a polygraph examination for you so that I can begin to feel safe in our marriage again."

You DON'T trust him! You should NEVER have completely trusted him! He has proven that he will abuse that trust at every opportunity!

If your WH is truly repentent and remorseful, he will jump at the chance to prove that he is telling you the truth. If he dodges and weaves and gets upset at the thought of having to take the test, well, I guess that will tell you something else entirely, won't it.

ETA: I wouldn't suggest this as an idea. I would demand it as a condition for remaining in the marriage. If he can't fulfill this simple task after swearing to you that he's told you the truth, I'd tell him to get out.
Posted By: L2010NM Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 03:10 AM
DA, first of all, please get tested TODAY. He was playing with your life all these years.

In my situation, there was only one polygraph company in my town and he never got back to me. That delayed my H test by a few months. I had to look at another city (a 3 hour drive) to get my H tested. I was scared about my H polygraph results and that there could be more that the two other women but I needed to know and I compared it to having an operation or surgery. I would be scared but it needs to be done so you just do it. Please get it done, go to Malaysia or other neighboring country if you have to.
I had never suspected my BH because he is a very caring man, has been good to me, shows me lots of love and passions, a very good father, he takes care of all of us, he is committed to the family. Yet he has a dark secret.
Posted By: reading Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 04:12 AM
Dr. Harley says that many men have secret second lives.
Please don't angry with me as I want to be very sure and objective before I take the step. The purpose of doing polygraph is to know whether my H lies. There are three outcomes: Yes, No & Inconclusive.

Are there anyone of you whose cheating spouse went for polygraph and had a positive result, what happened after that?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 11:06 AM
But, DA honey - they aren't YOU! You're trying to see into your future based on what happened to someone else.Your goal right now is to determine whether or not your WH is lying to you. Until you know that, you can't take the next step. You've done that dance before, remember? :

You catch him. He swears to never do it again. You cry. He begs forgiveness. You forgive. Again and again.

As you've learned in the most painful way, this does not heal a marriage!

Sit down and think for a minute, DA. What are YOUR choices?

What will you do if the poly shows that he's lying? Because if you intend to issue him a blanket pass of forgiveness, you're also giving him a blanket pass to cheat on you with the next woman who strikes his fancy. Is that the kind of life you want? Because that's the life you've been living.

I know this is hard, DA, and I know you're in a terrible spot. But you're going to have to straighten your spine and demand the kind of marriage you deserve! Do you really want your children to grow up in a home where their father is a lying hound dog who screws the help while their mother cries gently into her pillow?? Come on, now, DA - you deserve better than that! They deserve better than that!

Do this: make a list of what you are willing to accept in a marriage. Then make a list of what you are NOT willing to accept. Bring that back here and let's look at it. That might help put us on the same page as far as what your goals are regarding your marriage and family.
What I am willing to accept in a marriage:
1. Complete honesty
2. Complete openness

What I am NOT willing to accept in a marriage:
1. Lies
2. Affairs

I contacted a polygraph tester and sent him the following questions.
1. Have you told your wife all the sexual activities you have had during your marriage?
2. Besides the women your wife already knows, were there any other women you were physically intimate or had sex with?
3. Are you hiding information about other relationships that you had with any other women?
4. Have you answered all of your wife's questions regarding all your affairs completely and truthfully?

I intend to have the test next Mon and talk to him on Sat, which gives him two days before the test.
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 12:47 PM
DA,
The safety nets are things you can do to protect yourself for now while you decide if this marriage is worth saving........
I would make sure you go see a lawyer see what your moves will be if you decide this relationship won't work for you......
I would make sure the financial part is separated for the time being so you are protected until you decide what your plan will be.
This is no longer about what he wants and needs, I agree with the others first all the truth has to come out, polygraph is the way you could be sure....others on the site have gone this route...........
You need to sit your husband down and let him know what you want and need to move forward in the marriage, he has changed everything and what you had and adhered to no longer has to stand, it is time for you to set your boundaries and he either lives within the those boundaries or you separate and let him live the life he is choosing.........
The life he has been living is over, if he is not willing to do the polygraph and give you the truth you say to him then I will never be able to move forward and believe your word...........
No Contact has to be established with the OW for life.........
He has to change everything about his behavior, no more contact with anyone of the opposite sex alone......no personal conversations, no connection at all......
You can't be a part of the life he is living any longer, the buck stops here with YOUR new plan, either he is in or he is out, even though he may not agree right away you have to stand firm, if he is serious he will do whatever you request to save the marriage and him............
The old marriage is over DA, your old ways of accepting are over......that has not worked.......it is time for you to start driving the bus of your own life
jessi
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 12:52 PM
Quote
I intend to have the test next Mon and talk to him on Sat, which gives him two days before the test.
Good. Get that test scheduled. Let him know that you will not accept his word because he has shown that his word means nothing.

You may likely hear a whole lot more to the story before the test. Waywards have a tendency to start 'remembering' things just before the test.

He'll give you some more info as a way to dodge taking the test. Insist that he take it anyway.
One more question, is it better to schedule polygraph test on Mon or Wed? Will weekend give my H too much or too little time? I will be firm on it and will not allow him to dodge the test.

Jessie, I take care of household finances. My H's salary is deposited into our join account. I manage his and my accounts through Internet banking which he doesn't use at all. So the safety nets are safe. All our properties are in joint names, so they are also safe.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He finally told me his dark secrets - 09/07/11 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by Devastated_Again
One more question, is it better to schedule polygraph test on Mon or Wed? Will weekend give my H too much or too little time? I will be firm on it and will not allow him to dodge the test.

Jessie, I take care of household finances. My H's salary is deposited into our join account. I manage his and my accounts through Internet banking which he doesn't use at all. So the safety nets are safe. All our properties are in joint names, so they are also safe.
DA, schedule the test for any day the polygrapher is available. It doesn't matter.

As far as your finances go - I would suggest you get online and open an account at your bank in your name only. Then transfer the bulk of all of your funds into that account for safekeeping. The fact that he doesn't use the internet doesn't mean he can't get on the phone with his bank and transfer money out of your accounts.

You can always move funds back into the old accounts as necessary.
Quote
DA, schedule the test for any day the polygrapher is available. It doesn't matter.

As far as your finances go - I would suggest you get online and open an account at your bank in your name only. Then transfer the bulk of all of your funds into that account for safekeeping. The fact that he doesn't use the internet doesn't mean he can't get on the phone with his bank and transfer money out of your accounts.

You can always move funds back into the old accounts as necessary.

I normally transfer money to accounts in my name as saving and leave sufficient for household expenses. So yes, I have done that.

The polygrapher test has been scheduled on Monday morning (your time would be Sunday evening). I will talk to my H on Friday night, very scary...I have changed the questions too.

1. Are you lying to your wife how many times you had sex with those women you told her?
2. Have you told your wife all the romantic/sexual relationships you had during your marriage, in Singapore and overseas?
3a. Are you hiding information about any romantic/sexual relationships that you had with other women during the marriage?
3b. Besides the women your wife already knows, have you had any other romantic/sexual relationships?
(either 3a or 3b)

Any opinions on the questions?
After reading sex addict and serial cheater, I think my husband is one. Let me illustrate:

My husband and I have been married for 25 years, he is 49 and I am 48. We have 4 kids, aged 20, 18, 15 & 13. He is a very caring man, has been good to me, shows me lots of love and affections, a very good father, he takes care of all of us, he is committed to the family. We do quarrels, but overall our marriage is good and our sexual relationship together has been fulfilling. Then in 2008, that was the first time I discovered he was "flirting" with a domestic help. Let me show you the happenings:

I discovered:

1. In Jun 2008, he was texting and flirting with an unknown Domestic Help E
2, In Jan 2009, he sms Domestic Help E again
3. In Mar 2011, he kissed and fondled my own Domestic Help G

Then I had the hunch he wasn't truthful. So last weekend, I showed him Dr. Harley's articles of Honesty and Openness and asked him to be truthful, then he admitted the following:

1. In 2000, he had intimate relationship with my Domestic Help A and then had sex once
2. In 2002, he had intimate relationship with my Domestic Help B but no sex
3. In between, he went to Thailand for detachment, he had one-night-stand with Thai C
4. In between, he went to Thailand for detachment again, he had one-night-stand with Thai D
5. In 2008, for Domestic Help E, not just flirting, he actually had sex with her twice
6. In 2010, he had intimate relationship with my Domestic Help F and then had sex once

He doesn't travel much, actually very little, but it seems that whenever he was travelling, he had one night stand. He doesn't spend nights out and is always at home, but during weekday, he would take time off to sneak into Domestic Help's employer's residence to have sex with her (can you imagine the consequences if he was caught in someone's property and having sex with their domestic help!) At home, he screws my domestic helps. I had never noticed it because he didn't show affections towards them. He was very remorseful everytime when I discovered his relationships, but he continued.

After reading Dr. Harley's article on "What is Sexual Addiction?", which describes "If your spouse has sincerely promised to avoid sexual activities that offend you, your sexual relationship together has been reasonably fulfilling, and he or she continues to indulge in those offensive sexual activities, voluntarily expressing deep remorse, you're probably married to a sex addict." This was exactly what happened when I discovered his three relationships. Clearly he is a sex addict/serial cheater.

As he looks right into my eyes and lies to me for so many years, I don't think he has told me everything about his past relationships (thanks to all the advices from you). I have scheduled a polygraph test for him on Mon 12 Sep and I haven't talked to him yet.

If the test shows he is lying, which means he is in serious trouble. What can I do to help him and save our marriage?

I am very very afraid....the burden is heavy...I pray to God for His strength.
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