Marriage Builders
How do you go dark with a elementary age child in the house ?

Doesn't that create a toxic environment, given the already selfish, angry and vengeful personality of a cheating spouse ?
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
How do you go dark with a elementary age child in the house ?

Doesn't that create a toxic environment, given the already selfish, angry and vengeful personality of a cheating spouse ?

What is your understanding of Plan B, because I don't understand your question.
DD.

I have 2 elementary age children in my house and I am in a very Dark plan B in a very very small town! You dictate how it works NOT her! My ww has and still try's to get me to break it--I have once in 6 months.

So it can be done.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended

But what if you can't seperate.....and you are still sharing the same residence,
Trying to maintain a consistent environment for the benefit of your child, but the cheating spouse is staying in a guest room.

Cutting off all communication would create a hostile environment that is detrimental to the child. Which is what I want to avoid....and not break apart their world by requiring spouse to leave and take the child making me a part time dad.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended

But what if you can't seperate.....and you are still sharing the same residence,
Trying to maintain a consistent environment for the benefit of your child, but the cheating spouse is staying in a guest room.

Cutting off all communication would create a hostile environment that is detrimental to the child. Which is what I want to avoid....and not break apart their world by requiring spouse to leave and take the child making me a part time dad.
Welcome to MB, DD.

Becoming a part-time parent is indeed the last thing most of us want, but it will be the outcome if your wife continues the affair. That is, unless you are saying you will live in the same house with her indefinitely, while she carries on her affair.

If she carries on the affair then either she will leave you to be with OM, or she will pressurise you, up to and including going to court, to get you out of the home. In either of these scenarios you will be a part-time father.

In your position, assuming you have done Plan A for a reasonable amount of time in order to lay the groundwork, I would go to court first, before she does so, to get HER out of the home. As the child's father, you should argue and demonstrate that you are capable of caring for your child whilst she is not, because she is having an affair. Get the best lawyer you can and fight for residential custody (or whatever it is called in your state).

What you are doing by living together isn't Plan B. Either continue Plan A for longer (and I would not blame you if you have had enough of that) or take legal action to enforce Plan B.

That is, unless you are prepared to live in the same house with your wife while she conducts her affair, indefinitely.

You should post your full story on the forum Surviving an Affair. This forum is not the place to discuss Plan B.
If she is refusing to end her affair, she needs to leave the marital home. Only then can you do Plan B. Plan B is to completely separate from the adulterer. You can't do that while she's sleeping in the guest room.

And why the heck is she sleeping in the guest room?? Did you not help her pack her bag?

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Trying to maintain a consistent environment for the benefit of your child, but the cheating spouse is staying in a guest room.
Talk about a toxic environment! Your WW is an unsafe person to have around your child. And your child is probably very confused by what is going on. Have you explained to your child that mommy has a boyfriend, and that it's wrong for married mommies to have boyfriends?
Originally Posted by PTH
DD.

I have 2 elementary age children in my house and I am in a very Dark plan B in a very very small town! You dictate how it works NOT her! My ww has and still try's to get me to break it--I have once in 6 months.

So it can be done.


Not talking to your spouse, I envision being akin to "giving the cold shoulder".
and ignoring a person.

I'm struggling with how that impacts a child, to see dad engaging in behavior
We have told our child is rude and bad.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended

But what if you can't seperate.....and you are still sharing the same residence,
Trying to maintain a consistent environment for the benefit of your child, but the cheating spouse is staying in a guest room.

Cutting off all communication would create a hostile environment that is detrimental to the child. Which is what I want to avoid....and not break apart their world by requiring spouse to leave and take the child making me a part time dad.

DD, Plan B is a separation and will not work if you are living together. Plan B PREVENTS a hostile environment because you are not living together.

What kind of Plan A have you done? What have you done to bust up the affair?
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by PTH
DD.

I have 2 elementary age children in my house and I am in a very Dark plan B in a very very small town! You dictate how it works NOT her! My ww has and still try's to get me to break it--I have once in 6 months.

So it can be done.


Not talking to your spouse, I envision being akin to "giving the cold shoulder".
and ignoring a person.

I'm struggling with how that impacts a child, to see dad engaging in behavior
We have told our child is rude and bad.

Giving your spouse the cold shoulder is bad for your marriage. And living in the same house while giving your spouse the cold shoulder WOULD create a toxic environment. That is why you shouldn't do it. What you describe is NOT PlanB. Plan B is a SEPARATION. If you live together you are not separated.
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We have told our child is rude and bad.
I don't understand this sentence.
-maritalbliss

I was referring to not responding, or ignoring a person.

Devoted Dad, I would suggest that you click on the notify button and have your thread moved to the Surviving an Affair forum.

Do you want to save your M? Would you like help doing so?
I thought it was a general question about the plan, didn't see the forum you mentioned.

I submitted a Chang request.
DevotedDad, how young is your child?

If you click on the NewlyBS link in my signature, you can read through a thread that wil help you navigate this site, as well as answering the questions(on this thread please) so we can help you better.

As all of the other posters have stated, you can NOT Plan B while living in the same house.

You can't do a plan B from the same house.
Dr. Harley recommends to many men that they do not go to plan B but work their best plan A to win their spouses back to them. To wait out the affair. You, as long as you are living in the same home with your wife and communicating with her.....should do the best plan A you can. Invite her to sleep in the marriage bed. Be welcoming and show her the best you.

If it becomes too dreadful for you and you can not continue in the plan A....you must write a beautiful love letter to her (the plan B letter at marriage builders) and then go to plan B. Only if you can not bear plan A any longer and are tempted to resort to lovebusters http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html
which would doom your marriage to end anyway.

Plan B is for your own sanity.

Lots of us here have children with the waywards and are able to have zero contact with them as we try to move on out of the drama of the affair. It can be done. The children are doing as best as they can, given the circumstances. They see one parent being strong for the family by having self respect in a horrible situation.
Originally Posted by reading
You can't do a plan B from the same house.
Dr. Harley recommends to many men that they do not go to plan B but work their best plan A to win their spouses back to them. To wait out the affair. You, as long as you are living in the same home with your wife and communicating with her.....should do the best plan A you can. Invite her to sleep in the marriage bed. Be welcoming and show her the best you.

If it becomes too dreadful for you and you can not continue in the plan A....you must write a beautiful love letter to her (the plan B letter at marriage builders) and then go to plan B. Only if you can not bear plan A any longer and are tempted to resort to lovebusters http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html
which would doom your marriage to end anyway.

Plan B is for your own sanity.

Lots of us here have children with the waywards and are able to have zero contact with them as we try to move on out of the drama of the affair. It can be done. The children are doing as best as they can, given the circumstances. They see one parent being strong for the family by having self respect in a horrible situation.

THIS!!
I am currently in plan B with two kids. My wife has custody of kids right now. I use a IM to facilitate times of pick up and drop off. So this is very doable. Stay dark it is hard. I am still learning to keep dark and not peek. DO NOT PEEK. IT HURTS! It is a learning process but I find myself growing personally stronger and more confident in myself. I know I am also healing and protecting myself. Prepare yourself LISTEN to these vets they are so great and will not steer you wrong. Keep the faith and fight the good fight. Hold your head high knowing you are doing everything you need to do to save your family!

Sorry did not see that you were still in same house. PLAN A while in the same house. I tried plan A also while separated. The things she said to me was awful and painful. Plan B has protected me from this and I have saved the love I have for her if she decides to stop affair and reconcile I have deposits still in my love bank for her that I can utilize to start building a strong foundation for marital recovery. Until that time I will stay in plan B and be a great father to my kids, and continue learning to be a better great husband for when my wife is ever comes out of the fog!
Got it.

Near impossible to do with a spouse who isn't cooperative, so I guess I'm stuck.
Plan A has only resulted in more brazzen behavior and a statements like "not going to stop because i don't want to", and when I communicate things our child says, like "I miss mom, when's mom coming?". I am accused of using her emotions against her. Patience and praying, and trying to effect changes both in myself and the relationship have been met with resistance, discredited and as a result appear to have yielded nothing.

Seperation is just another word for "trial divorce", and asking her to leave is effectively volunteering to kick our child out of my life, at best resulting in only experiencing 50 % of their growing up. Not what I want and I can't volutarily break up my family.

Seems hopelessly deadlocked.



Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Got it.

Near impossible to do with a spouse who isn't cooperative, so I guess I'm stuck.

The only thing on this site that is near impossible to do with an uncooperative spouse, is recovery. Plan A and Plan B are the plans you use while the affair is active.

Have you read ALL of the info on this site? How old is your child? Also, please answer the other questions on the NewlyBS thread please, it will help us help you.
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Seperation is just another word for "trial divorce", and asking her to leave is effectively volunteering to kick our child out of my life, at best resulting in only experiencing 50 % of their growing up. Not what I want and I can't volutarily break up my family.
A wayward wife who is flaunting her affair in your face is another word for "divorce". Is that your goal?

No one said anything about your child leaving. WW, yes. But she isn't taking your child with her. Your child stays in the safety and security of his home.

Let your WW know that you will not stand idly by and tolerate her disgusting behavior. You will not allow your child to see his mother behaving like a common tramp. She'll have to do that out of your marital home so that your child is not exposed to her dreadful behavior.

I would suggest you lock down your finances. I would clean out all of your joint checking & savings accounts. Leave just enough to keep the accounts open. Put the rest in an account that only you can access. Cancel credit cards that she can use. If there's a balance and you can't cancel them, direct the card issuer to suspend the card so it can't be used.

Lock down any retirement accounts so she can't pilfer them. Think of any other avenues she can use to get at family/marital money and lock them down.

This may sound drastic, DD, but we've had plenty of posters on here whose wayward went to the bank and cleaned out all the accounts in order to have money to support the affair.

After you have done this, inform her that you will not be financing her affair. She'll have to come up with the scratch to do that on her own.

I know this was intended to be humorous, but I can relate to 90 % of what it describes in my spouse. Appears my spouse, may be experiencing an MLC.

MIDLIFE for Dummies

Especially, " Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. "

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2458276&page=3
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I know this was intended to be humorous, but I can relate to 90 % of what it describes in my spouse. Appears my spouse, may be experiencing an MLC.

MIDLIFE for Dummies

Especially, " Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. "

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2458276&page=3
MLC is a handy term that means nothing. Your WW is having an affair because she has poor boundaries with men and saw an opportunity to have one. We've had waywards on this board from their early 20s to their 70s.
Intentionally general to maintain anonymity...

How old are you? How old is your WS(wayward spouse)?
Early 40's, late 30's

Do you have any children? How old are they?
1, elementary

How long have you been married? Is this the first marriage for both of you?
10, yes

How did your WS meet their AP?
Dancing, at a "girls night out"

How long did the A last?
Ongoing 11 months, refuses to stop.

How did you find out about the A?
Cellphone bill.

Have you ordered the book Surviving an Affairby DrHarley? Have you read it?
No book, but have read website content. Trying to adapt to unique circumstances.....but from the preceding responses, not possible.
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Trying to adapt to unique circumstances
DD, you are going to get bogged down if you try to convince yourself that there is something unique about your circumstances. If you spend much time on this site, you'll learn very quickly that affairs are all pretty much the same. The names are different. Other than that, they're all quite unoriginal.

Who is OM? Do you know him? Have you got his name? Have you exposed this affair to anyone who can help you influence your WW to end the A?

Have you confronted OM and told him to leave your wife alone? How about OM's family? Most importantly: IS HE MARRIED?
You said you did Plan A but the most important part of Plan A is exposure to bust up the affair.

Who has this been exposed to, if anyone? Do you know who this OM is? Is he married? Is he on FB?
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Intentionally general to maintain anonymity...

How old are you? How old is your WS(wayward spouse)?
Early 40's, late 30's

Do you have any children? How old are they?
1, elementary

How long have you been married? Is this the first marriage for both of you?
10, yes

How did your WS meet their AP?
Dancing, at a "girls night out"

How long did the A last?
Ongoing 11 months, refuses to stop.

How did you find out about the A?
Cellphone bill.

Have you ordered the book Surviving an Affairby DrHarley? Have you read it?
No book, but have read website content. Trying to adapt to unique circumstances.....but from the preceding responses, not possible.
Are you being mysterious in order to tease? Do you think it brings more interest to your story?

How would giving your ages identify you?

I am particularly keen to know how old your child is. The term "elementary" does not mean anything to me, my dear Watson, even though I am British. Is your child 2, or 8? How would it identify you to give that detail?

That detail matters when it comes to our advice about handling this.
If the A has gone on this long, you need to get your exposure done. Can you compile a list of people for exposure? Consider WW's parents, siblings, clergy, etc. Anyone whose opinion or respect she looks up to who can help you influence her to end her A.

You'll need to hit OM's side as well.

NOTE: Do NOT tell your WW about exposure! Do not threaten to expose the affair - just DO it.

The better your exposure, the angrier she'll more than likely be. That's what you want. Don't be afraid to do this - it's your single best tool for busting up the affair.

Dr.Harley, clinical psychologist and owner of this site, says:
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Another exception to the Policy of Joint Agreement when confronting infidelity is what I've called, "exposure." I highly recommend that while in plan A you tell your friends, family, the lover's spouse, your pastor, and possibly your wayward spouse's employer that your spouse is having an affair. It's a very controversial recommendation, and a clear violation of the Policy of Joint Agreement. But I've found exposure to be one of the most effective ways to end an affair quickly while in plan A.
SugarCane, elementary means elementary school, about grades 1-6, about ages 6 - 11.
Originally Posted by markos
SugarCane, elementary means elementary school, about grades 1-6, about ages 6 - 11.
Old enough to be told that mommy is doing a bad thing, DD.
Originally Posted by markos
SugarCane, elementary means elementary school, about grades 1-6, about ages 6 - 11.

A child that age should be told about the affair, during exposure and in an age appropriate way(ie. Mommy is having an affair. That means that Mommy has been dating OM. It is wrong to date someone else when you are married).

Also, a child of that age can walk to a car, waiting in a driveway. That makes exchanges easier.
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Are you being mysterious in order to tease? Do you think it brings more interest to your story?
Are you serious ?
Do you know what exposure is?

Have you exposed WW affair?
DD, don't waste precious time.

Go post by post and answer all the questions.
I think I've made a mistake, out of desperation.
Sorry for wasting everyone's time.
If you are desperate this is the best place to be.
But you have to believe and trust the program.

You are wrong if you think she can't move out.
It might not be fun, but thats a consequence of wrecking your family. Stop protecting her from the consequences.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I think I've made a mistake, out of desperation.
Sorry for wasting everyone's time.
That's up to you, DD. But before you go, think about this: you have put up with your WW's devastating betrayal of you for ELEVEN months. That's ELEVEN MONTHS GONE FROM YOUR LIFE. You'll never get those back. Is that how you want the next eleven months to go? Or the next year? Because I promise you that that's exactly what is in store for you. Your WW will be living the life of Riley. She'll have everything she needs: access to her child, financial support for whatever she wants to do, a roof over her head and her OM. You'll have...a wayward wife sleeping down the hall from you (when she's not overnighting with OM) who has zero respect for her shell of a man husband who is willing to live with a wife who is catting around with another man. At least until she gets so disgusted with living with you that she dumps you and goes off with OM. THAT'S when the weekend visitations with your son will kick in.

Or you can expose and kill the affair. Your call.
Your only mistake seems to be ignoring the advice on how to bust up this affair.

Read this:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2376609

Good luck!
No offense, but there is no unique set of circumstances. We all have little tweaks of how we got where we are. We are universally the same though which is why marriage builders concepts and plans are the way to go. For real.

I am all for vagueness, I myself am vague. Its just how things are for some people.
You can still study up the books and so on and make plans. Plans that are better than grasping for ways to manage your situation.

I will say that this seriously IS the place to be to work through your betrayel.

A non cooperative wayward spouse is the norm, not rare. If they were cooperative, they would have discussed cheating on you before the fact, and they don't. YK?
He's not going to make it. I feel sorry for his son frown
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
If you are desperate this is the best place to be.

You are wrong if you think she can't move out.
It might not be fun, but thats a consequence of wrecking your family. Stop protecting her from the consequences.


Lexxxy, I can say with 100% certainty that I am right, because after being 'told' by my spouse "If I leave, he goes with me."
I've consulted a local attorney who confirmed that there was nothing I could do to prevent my spouse from removing our child from our home should she leave. My only option at that point would be to file for dissolution of our marriage along with a petition for custody in order to "get him back".

And, I'm trying to protect our child from the negative consequences and minimize the impact of her bad behavior choices....nothing I've done has any intention on "protecting her from the consequences."

I am not trying to be argumentative, because I know that most people here are well intentioned and from what I've read seemingly caring people, otherwise I would've remained a lurking.

But earlier this afternoon, smug comments like this:
"Are you being mysterious in order to tease? Do you think it brings more interest to your story? " frankly annoyed me rather than helped me.

P.S. I have read "His Needs Her Needs".....I've read so many books since D-Day, trying to identify and make changes for the 50 % responsibility I own that contributed to the deterioration of our marriage, that I forgot the title.

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Lexxxy, I can say with 100% certainty that I am right, because after being 'told' by my spouse "If I leave, he goes with me."
I've consulted a local attorney who confirmed that there was nothing I could do to prevent my spouse from removing our child from our home should she leave.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????? Um, yeah, there's something you can do: YOU TELL HER SHE IS NOT TAKING YOUR SON OUT OF HIS HOME.

Pretty easy, really.

Have you told her she needs to leave yet? DD, she's been dumping on you for a year. Tell her she has to go. You've put up with this disrespect long enough/

YOUR SON STAYS WITH YOU.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Lexxxy, I can say with 100% certainty that I am right, because after being 'told' by my spouse "If I leave, he goes with me."

DD, the path you are taking now will lead to a situation where you end up being kicked out of your own home, and your WW moving the OM in to take your place. Is this that what you want? If not, you've GOT TO GET OFF THAT PATH.

Your WW is brazenly carrying on her A in front of you. She is showing you that she has absolutely no respect for you at this point.

You are not earning her respect by allowing her to continue to do what she's doing without consequences.

You can start by (a) securing your finances, then (b) filing for D, for sole use of your home, and for 100% custody. By filing first, YOU get to control the situation. Filing for D doesn't mean that you will end up getting D'd, as you can call the process off at any time.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Your only mistake seems to be ignoring the advice on how to bust up this affair.

Read this:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2376609

Good luck!


SusieQ,
It took me a while to read through that post.

While I can relate to some of the elements, such as "Fear of �pushing her further away�. I would have to add "Fear of losing their child(ren)."

Once you accept the reality you are know facing as a result of your spouses choices, you not only have to consider that your response to your spouses choices will impact yourself, but your innocent child. Because the BS doesn't care about anyone but themselves, IF the LBS becomes selfish too and focuses of "finding their happiness too, like the BS, that leaves an innocent child traumatized WITH no responsible logical adult
looking our for their well being.

I guess what I've not seen in either "His needs, Her Needs" or "Love Must Be Tough" is any consideration for the impacts on children...both focus on the BS and LBS as if children are not to be considered.

I guess I was really looking for input, and being able to relate to others, facing similar circumstances, who have young children to consider. (And no, I'm not saying older children are irrelevant, just different circumstances.)

DD.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
[
And, I'm trying to protect our child from the negative consequences and minimize the impact of her bad behavior choices....nothing I've done has any intention on "protecting her from the consequences."

DevotedDad, I agree that you should be concerned about the impact of the affair on your child. As such, the best thing a betrayed spouse can do for his child is protect that child from a divorce. The best way to avoid divorce is to kill the affair. And what is the most effective way to kill the affair? Exposure. Exposure of the affair gives you the very best chance to save your marriage.

Those of us here in recovered marriages attribute our saved marriages to exposure. In some cases, exposure ended the affair the very day it was exposed. In others, it hastened its death. The reason is because affairs thrive on secrecy. Keeping it a secret only serves to ENABLE it. Exposure is ruinous because it ruins the fantasy. It is like turning on the lights in a crack house and inviting in a crowd of people. It is no fun to get high when everyone is watching!

Have you exposed the affair? Is the OM married?
MB

I am not kidding. Like I said,

I have no legal recourse to prevent it.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
MB

I am not kidding. Like I said,

I have no legal recourse to prevent it.

Just wanted to point out that there is nothing stopping you from taking your child back. If she has a right to take the child, so do you. We have had many men on this forum who got primary custody of their children and full possession of their homes just by hiring an aggressive attorney who filed on grounds of adultery. [in many no fault states, adultery is taken into consideration]

That being said, it might never come to that point if you can kill the affair. What kinds of things have you done to kill her affair?
I realize, I've enabled to a degree, because I felt if there was any chance of reconciliation, in hopes that she would "come to her senses", exposing (a.k.a, effectively smearing her) would be viewed through the affair prism/logic of an "act against her"...
worthy of unforgiveness.

And in the long run, "telling everyone" would serve only to negatively impact her willingness to be cooperative, and highly likely to cause acts of vengeance should I end up being a part-time dad.

I understand the logic of exposure, but looking at the big picture, and given the fact that there really is no one whose opinion she would consider valuable, other than a close personal friend who she's already rejected because she's expressed her extreme displeasure with her continued bad behavior.

Nothing seems to matter anymore, other than what she wants.

Trying to work with what I have, while praying and focusing on my relationship with our child. Hence, my comment about "unique circumstances".

In reality, a cookie cutter approach is not always possible.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I realize, I've enabled to a degree, because I felt if there was any chance of reconciliation, in hopes that she would "come to her senses", exposing (a.k.a, effectively smearing her) would be viewed through the affair prism/logic of an "act against her"...
worthy of unforgiveness.

And in the long run, "telling everyone" would serve only to negatively impact her willingness to be cooperative, and highly likely to cause acts of vengeance should I end up being a part-time dad.

I understand the logic of exposure, but looking at the big picture, and given the fact that there really is no one whose opinion she would consider valuable, other than a close personal friend who she's already rejected because she's expressed her extreme displeasure with her continued bad behavior.

Nothing seems to matter anymore, other than what she wants.

Trying to work with what I have, while praying and focusing on my relationship with our child. Hence, my comment about "unique circumstances".

In reality, a cookie cutter approach is not always possible.

The fact is, due to much of this country still being 'pro mother' you might not get the best deal in divorce. However, the fact also is you cannot continue to let this affair be rubbed in your face.

My dh did this with his now XW. He kept being 'nice' because he didn't want to lose his kids. He ended up losing his kids, his wife and everything he owned. He should have fought MUCH harder. He wishes he had.
It is really frustrating that we have to ask for four pages before you will tell us that you have not exposed and don't want to expose. *sigh*

I would really appreciate it if you would answer the question as to WHO OM is (coworker?), if he is married & if his BW has been informed.
{I've consulted a local attorney who confirmed that there was nothing I could do to prevent my spouse from removing our child from our home should she leave. My only option at that point would be to file for dissolution of our marriage along with a petition for custody in order to "get him back".}

Then you need to consult a different attorney/s-my WH/now X filed and paid money for an aggressive attorney IMO due to having and continuing to have affair/relationships with OW1 and now OW2/now current GF and his recreational drug use thru our marriage.

I strongly encourage you to CYA/protect your child. My WH/now X filed and that included a temporary parenting plan that was jacked up. Our DD was being shuttled back and forth on a nightly basis and this was what they considered to be in the best interest for our child! my first lawyer didn't bring up the infidelity, drug use til way late in the process and by that set precedent for "equal" custody.

Don't threaten, bargain, or make your WW aware of your intentions-find lawyer review sites and to find out what former clients have rated/remarked about the lawyer that you've consulted or will use.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
And in the long run, "telling everyone" would serve only to negatively impact her willingness to be cooperative, and highly likely to cause acts of vengeance should I end up being a part-time dad.

Actually it has the opposite effect! Just ask those of us who have saved our marriages. Keeping it a secret will lead you to divorce. What it does is ruin the affair which causes the wayward to become more likely to work on the marriage. You are more likely to end up a part time dad if you DON'T. The worst thing you can do for your marriage is help hide the affair, because affairs thrive on secrecy.

Enabling your wife's affair is to contribute to the demise of your marriage and your child's family. You become an accessory to the crime by doing nothing. That is certainly not in your child's best interest.

As Dr Harley, who has saved thousands of marriages, would say, it is very hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. And keeping the affair secret is to ENABLE it.

Being an enabler is a complacent approach that reflects a lack of caring to your wife. On the other hand, exposing the affair and fighting for your marriage shows her you DO CARE.

Here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, says about exposure:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery." here


Some applicable radio clips where Dr Harley discusses how hard it is to save a marriage when you enable the affair: here

And another clip of a caller who saved his marriage by exposing it [his wifes affair was killed that very weekend by exposing it - they are now well into recovery]: here

Quote
In reality, a cookie cutter approach is not always possible.

Would you concede that -in reality - perhaps you are not the best judge of that? And that perhaps you are the least objective person on this thread? think
A cookie cutter approach IS always possible since there is such little variance in the whole deal from couple to couple. Names are different. Addresses of homes are different. How the affairees met (meaning where) varies by work/neighbors/friends/gym/hobby
but the plans work since they are basically remarkably alike.
You put your instinct aside and use them and wind up in a better place than not using them. No guarantees the marriage survives but the betrayed one gave it their best, strong shot to rebuild a healthy marriage. Not a crippled one or one at all costs.
DD. Please listen to the advice you have been given. Your situation is not unique, not a bit. A textbook affair. Young child. Husband afraid to expose. You WILL lose your wife and child if you continue to play by her rules. Get your self respect back and fight for your family and son. Expose this nasty affair, PLAN A like mad. Man up! Your son will respect you for doing EVERYTHING in your power to fight for your marriage and make it fantastic.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
It is really frustrating that we have to ask for four pages before you will tell us that you have not exposed and don't want to expose. *sigh*

I would really appreciate it if you would answer the question as to WHO OM is (coworker?), if he is married & if his BW has been informed.


SQ,

If you don't like the way I communicate, then please feel free to ignore me.

I didn't say "don't want to", I said the benefit is nil and the negative impacts are multiple and long lasting in the big picture. How do you get someone to care what someone else thinks ? Additionally, given our litigious society, I have reservations about things like "slander", "liable" even if they are not true, they are still expensive to defend against.....not interested in adding to the existing challenges already facing.

WHO OM is ?
A morally bankrupt individual, not worthy of the effort it would take me to spit, and certainly not worthy of my time or attention. Because, if it weren't him, it would be someone else. Right or wrong, I have focused my attention 100% on my spouse, keeping my family together, and taking responsibility for identifying and attempting to change the circumstances I have control over.

if he is married ?
Don't know,and I'm not aware of any way to find out.
I know a name and obviously cellphone, but nothing other than that. (See response above.)

&

if his BW has been informed ? See previous answer.

If you go away, I hope you go away happy, not frustrated.
MelodyLane,

I read the hyperlinks you provided.

And the following excerpt I am responding to in order to provide a clear indication of the circumstances, via () below.

"To whom should it be exposed? I recommend that family (estranged from and whose opinions literally mean nothing), friends (already said, sole close friend knows and has been ignored), children (too young to understand), clergy (has stopped attending church and was never close to the priest anyway), and especially, the lover�s spouse (Unknown) be informed. Exposure in the workplace (unrelated to employment) depends on several factors."

Hence, my struggling to figure out what parts, if any, I can and can't use given the circumstances....because I know I need to do something.

If the whole enchilada is required, I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
[
I didn't say "don't want to", I said the benefit is nil and the negative impacts are multiple and long lasting in the big picture. How do you get someone to care what someone else thinks ? Additionally, given our litigious society, I have reservations about things like "slander", "liable" even if they are not true, they are still expensive to defend against.....not interested in adding to the existing challenges already facing.

You don't know that the benefit is "nil" and are not the best judge of that. Keep in mind that your best thinking has led your marriage to this terrible place. We are trying to help you turn this around. Your "reservations" are not rational, given that the truth is a defense to slander and libel.

I have been on this board for 10 years and have never seen a single case of slander brought due to exposure, however, I have seen hundreds of divorces filed when a BS didn't do anything to kill the affair. It is not in a waywards best interest to bring such a suit for obvious reasons.

Realistically, your greatest threat is divorce, not a slander lawsuit. There are only positive benefits from exposure. There are multiple negative consequences from the inevitable divorce that will come from enabling the affair, as you are learning the hard way.

I would implore you to accept that you don't have experience at fighting infidelity and let us help you.

Quote
A morally bankrupt individual, not worthy of the effort it would take me to spit, and certainly not worthy of my time or attention. Because, if it weren't him, it would be someone else.

Actually not. The reason it is this OM is because he did the best job of meeting your wife's EN and she is addicted to him. She is not addicted to someone else, after all. Saying he is not "worthy of your time or attention" is about like the French saying the Germans were not worthy of their attention as they invaded their country. If your country is being invaded, as your marriage is being invaded, then you had better learn everything you can about your enemy so you can vanquish him. You have to vanquish this enemy in order to save your marriage.

DD, I say this with kindness, but you do not have good instincts about infidelity and your ostrich strategy is going to lead you straight to divorce. Even if this affair ever does die a natural death before your marriage ends in divorce [unlikely] your wife will just go onto the next OM because she will still be wayward and because she knows you don't care much about your marriage. Your complacent approach reflects a lack of caring.

If you want to turn this around, you are going to have to set aside your complacent approach and do a little work here. We would be happy to help you but there is nothing we can do if you refuse to help yourself, my friend.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
MelodyLane,

I read the hyperlinks you provided.

And the following excerpt I am responding to in order to provide a clear indication of the circumstances, via () below.

"To whom should it be exposed? I recommend that family (estranged from and whose opinions literally mean nothing), friends (already said, sole close friend knows and has been ignored), children (too young to understand), clergy (has stopped attending church and was never close to the priest anyway), and especially, the lover�s spouse (Unknown) be informed. Exposure in the workplace (unrelated to employment) depends on several factors."

Hence, my struggling to figure out what parts, if any, I can and can't use given the circumstances....because I know I need to do something.

If the whole enchilada is required, I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I would begin by getting as much information as possible about the OM. Find out his marital status, get a list of his facebook friends. Start making up a list of your wife's family, such as her parents, grandparents, siblings. I would also enlist the priest to speak to her.

Are your children age 4 or older? If so, then they should be told of the affair.

But first things first. Get all the pertinent information about the OM and come back here. We will help you with next steps.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
[
if he is married ?
Don't know,and I'm not aware of any way to find out.
I know a name and obviously cellphone, but nothing other than that. (See response above.)

START HERE. Find out his marital status, occupation, address, family members [esp. wife's name]. Get as much information as possible about him. That's where we start.
http://www.veromi.net/processor.asp
intelius.com
peoplefinder.com
whitepages.com
anywho.com

You can find local PI's right here: PInow.com

when you get his address, you can go to zillow.com to map out his house.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
http://www.veromi.net/processor.asp
intelius.com
peoplefinder.com
whitepages.com
anywho.com

You can find local PI's right here: PInow.com

when you get his address, you can go to zillow.com to map out his house.


Veromi returns an interesting result.

I contacted a couple of pi's, one supposedly with 12 years experience and a former federal officer 23 years, who told me, there was no way to determine solely from a name an individuals marital status.



Originally Posted by DevotedDad
[

Veromi returns an interesting result.

I contacted a couple of pi's, one supposedly with 12 years experience and a former federal officer 23 years, who told me, there was no way to determine solely from a name an individuals marital status.

You can hire a PI to find out who he is and do a background check on him. It is pretty routine. Just keep trying until you figure it out. Also, be sure and check facebook and see if you can find something there.
Also, intelius and whitepages.com both have reverse cell phone look ups. They are hit or miss, but it is worth a try. Usually a PI can ID someone with just the cell phone #.
Unbelieveable,

I googled "veromi review" and found http://people-search-services-review.toptenreviews.com/peoplefinders-review.html

Which pointed to Peoplefinders as their #1 most comprehensive results search engine.

And lo and behold, discovered OM's wife - for free.

Wow.

Thank you, MelodyLane.
Good job, my friend!! smile
http://pipl.com/
http://www.zabasearch.com/
Wife on Facebook "friended" to OM.

This keeps getting better and better.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Wife on Facebook "friended" to OM.

This keeps getting better and better.

Copy all of his contacts into a WORD doc tonight and save it, please. See if you can ID his parents and other family members.

Good job on sleuthing!!
OM Married, possibly with a child. (Shared, pic of young child "friended" by both wife and OM Facebook pages.

Sad.
DD, take it from me, the first days/weeks/months after exposure may be hell, and all may seem lost, but it WILL kill the affair.

Right now you have NO CHANCE of saving your marriage, there is a 3rd party, you have NO MARRIAGE. You keep on this path and you WILL get divorce.

When the affair is killed, you actually stand a chance to safe your marriage. It is no guarantee, of course not, but you have a chance then, you don't right now.

Don't be vindictive with exposure, do it in a loving but determined way.

And absolutely include OMs family. It wasn't until I did that that I actually killed the affair, all of a sudden it came on everybody from all sides, and the fantasy was over. It may take some time, and you will be the source of their anger, but telling the truth is reality, they can not run away forever.

But the manner of exposure is very important, loving, but determined.

And if it makes you feel any better, the Mayo clinic also recommends exposure to kill affairs and work on the marriage.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by SusieQ
It is really frustrating that we have to ask for four pages before you will tell us that you have not exposed and don't want to expose. *sigh*

I would really appreciate it if you would answer the question as to WHO OM is (coworker?), if he is married & if his BW has been informed.


SQ,

If you don't like the way I communicate, then please feel free to ignore me.

I didn't say "don't want to", I said the benefit is nil and the negative impacts are multiple and long lasting in the big picture. How do you get someone to care what someone else thinks ? Additionally, given our litigious society, I have reservations about things like "slander", "liable" even if they are not true, they are still expensive to defend against.....not interested in adding to the existing challenges already facing.

WHO OM is ?
A morally bankrupt individual, not worthy of the effort it would take me to spit, and certainly not worthy of my time or attention. Because, if it weren't him, it would be someone else. Right or wrong, I have focused my attention 100% on my spouse, keeping my family together, and taking responsibility for identifying and attempting to change the circumstances I have control over.

if he is married ?
Don't know,and I'm not aware of any way to find out.
I know a name and obviously cellphone, but nothing other than that. (See response above.)

&

if his BW has been informed ? See previous answer.

If you go away, I hope you go away happy, not frustrated.
I can't let this pass.

This is an INCREDIBLY rude post to make to someone who put in time here to try and help you. We all have children and jobs and housework to take care of and we are not obliged to come here, but we do so because we have known the pain of affairs and we want to help you stop this affair and stop the break up of your family. What you have done so far has only ensured the break up of your family if you carry on. We have been through the steps: traced the OP and informed the spouse, and in many case that exposure alone has ended the affair. If it hasn't we have done a proper Plan B. We haven't lived in the house and been civil to our spouse while they continue to flaunt the affair in our faces. Your wife is doing that with your approval, since you have decided to protect her from exposure to OMW. You have, in fact, given your wife approval to sleep with another man.

You would not be in your position now had you read the many threads here and learned from their exposures (I believe you said you had been lurking, in your first post).

Some of us have made terrible mistakes and suffered and learned from them, and we come here to help others like you. How DARE you tell SusieQ that if she doesn't like how you post, to take a hike!

I hope now you are beginning to see how your spinelessness has led to your eating the crap your wife has dished up for you. Whether you act on exposure or not, you owe Susie an apology. And when you go to Walmart this weekend, buy a dose of humility. It will serve you well.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Unbelieveable,

I googled "veromi review" and found http://people-search-services-review.toptenreviews.com/peoplefinders-review.html

Which pointed to Peoplefinders as their #1 most comprehensive results search engine.

And lo and behold, discovered OM's wife - for free.

Wow.

Thank you, MelodyLane.
hurray Okay, NOW we're rolling! It was pretty clear OM was married, since your WW is still home.

Keep going, DD. Compile your list. Copy his FB friends to a Word doc.
Quote
I contacted a couple of pi's, one supposedly with 12 years experience and a former federal officer 23 years, who told me, there was no way to determine solely from a name an individuals marital status.
rotflmao Well, heck, DD. I don't have any PI experience at all, and I could have told you that! Of course you can't! Common sense will tell you that!

Be clear: the info you need is not going to be handed to you on a silver platter. You're going to have to roll up your sleeves and do some work, here.

BTW - I'm one of the people MelodyLane was talking about when she was talking about exposure. My H's affair was killed the DAY it was exposed. Killed DEAD. smile

Your WW's may take a tad longer because it's become entrenched. I do think you'll get your WW back. But you've got to follow the steps and stop fighting us.
Cane,

It is not "we" to whom I am speaking, it is you.

Thank you for your opinion, your altruism is evident.

In the future, you might want to consider your own tone in your initial as well as subsequent communications, the proverbial, "remove the stick from your own eye, before focusing on others" will serve you well.

If you feel that you are wasting your time, by all means stop doing so and ignore this thread.

I will not be offended.
DD, Sugarcane has been here a long time and is trying to be helpful. It gets frustrating when members are trying to give you the tools to pick yourself up out of the ditch and bust up the affair.

You have the typical scared to act because of possible ramifications. She was trying to help you and you dismissed her.

It would be better for you to take in what others are saying rather than dismissing them so easily just because they're saying something you don't want to hear. If you don't want to listen, then just ignore them. But if you start waving your hand at a few members here and there, you'll find the number of posters wanting to help you diminishing in numbers very quickly.
Quote
If you don't want to listen, then just ignore them. But if you start waving your hand at a few members here and there, you'll find the number of posters wanting to help you diminishing in numbers very quickly.
Yep. And you just dismissed a couple of very big hitters, DD.

Assemble your most important tools for tackling your WWs affair. Those tools include people here.
I have been here for four years, I am well aware that I can ignore a poster if I'd like to.

But since I am rooting for your marriage, I choose to give you a gentle 2x4 to get you to answer the questions that you and I both know you were purposely trying to sidestep around.

Your response was uncalled for, especially given that you have just arrived here and you KNOW you were being evasive, and SC was right to call you out on it. If you continue to be so defensive & rude, you are going to lose out on some good resources here on this site.

BTW, I KNOW all about being scared and hand-wringing. Not only have I just gone through the nightmare of discovering affair # 3 & 4, exposure, but also going into Plan B and now Plan D. Through this process I have had wonderful friends that don't just tell me what I want to hear, but push me when things get tough and I need to act. That is true support and I am thankful for it.

Now you owe SC an apology. Good luck!
OK just some of my experience on taking advice on here. When I first starting getting advice. I was like my wife wouldn't go that far wouldn't do that. I acknowledged what was being said but did not take it to heart. Until it really starting getting worse. Listen to these vets from the get go. I do wonder if I had listened first and done exactly the steps that I was told to start doing when they told me to do it, if I would be where I am now. My wife filed for divorce. The OM was charged in past with electronic solicitation of a minor. She has custody, was playing family with my kids around this piece o'poo. Everything you get from here is awesome advice if you want to save your marriage listen please. If not don't. If your marriage can't be saved taking the steps and advice they tell you to will protect you and allow yourself to heal up and become a stronger person please listen before you get to where I am at.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Cane,

It is not "we" to whom I am speaking, it is you.

Thank you for your opinion, your altruism is evident
.

In the future, you might want to consider your own tone in your initial as well as subsequent communications, the proverbial, "remove the stick from your own eye, before focusing on others" will serve you well.

If you feel that you are wasting your time, by all means stop doing so and ignore this thread.

I will not be offended.
"It is not 'we' to whom I am speaking, it is you"? What the heck does that mean? I spoke to you. Was that not clear?

My initial post to you was to tell you that you cannot Plan B whilst living in the house with your wife. Why should I tone that down?

It is YOU who needs to consider your tone when you are dismissing people who are here to help you. I don't have any stick in my eye. I have not dismissed the help of those who try to drag me out of the mess I am in in my marriage, and I never said that I was wasting my time.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
In the future, you might want to consider your own tone in your initial as well as subsequent communications, the proverbial, "remove the stick from your own eye, before focusing on others" will serve you well.

suggestion: you might want to consider your OWN TONE before you make snippy little posts like this to very the people you have asked for HELP. None of us have to help you. We all have families and lives of our own. Who has time to post to someone who repays our charity with ungrateful little tomes like this?

Sugarcane and Susie are both valuable, knowlegable posters who are in a postion to help you quite a bit. Running them off is not WISE. You can use all the help you can get and if you are going to treat board members like this, I am sure not willing to sacrifice any of own time here either.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Are you being mysterious in order to tease? Do you think it brings more interest to your story?
Are you serious ?


This is help ?

This is what set the tone with me.

And SQ was collateral damage.
I do owe SQ an apology,
and it will be forthcoming.







Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Are you being mysterious in order to tease? Do you think it brings more interest to your story?
Are you serious ?


This is help ?

This is what set the tone with me.

And SQ was collateral damage.
I do owe SQ an apology,
and it will be forthcoming.

This is gratitude? crazy You are shooting at the helicopters. Do you plan on running off everyone with your ingratitude?

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Are you being mysterious in order to tease? Do you think it brings more interest to your story?
Are you serious ?


This is help ?

This is what set the tone with me.

And SQ was collateral damage.
I do owe SQ an apology,
and it will be forthcoming.

Stop this DD. What you are doing is not uncommon, but trust me it will NOT serve you well. Bring a little humility to the table. Stop focusing on the manner of delivery and instead focus on the message and the advice. These people are very skilled in helping men like you in the situation you are in. Please listen to them.

Sometimes their manner is no nonsense because they hear the same story day after day. Day after day they watch men like you reject their advice and subsequently watch marriages crash and burn.

Back up, slow down and LISTEN. READ. Post questions. Listen carefully to the replies. Read some more. You have a lot to learn and fortunately you have stumbled upon an invaluable resource---the vets on this board.

Post details when asked. No one here is interested in tracking you down and stealing your children, but details of ages, length of marriage, identity of OM DO matter. No one asks questions here out of idle curiosity.
DD, THIS was my first post to you. I took some time composing it and I don't see anything wrong with its tone.

I'm sure you thank me for it, although you haven't said so.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended

But what if you can't seperate.....and you are still sharing the same residence,
Trying to maintain a consistent environment for the benefit of your child, but the cheating spouse is staying in a guest room.

Cutting off all communication would create a hostile environment that is detrimental to the child. Which is what I want to avoid....and not break apart their world by requiring spouse to leave and take the child making me a part time dad.
Welcome to MB, DD.

Becoming a part-time parent is indeed the last thing most of us want, but it will be the outcome if your wife continues the affair. That is, unless you are saying you will live in the same house with her indefinitely, while she carries on her affair.

If she carries on the affair then either she will leave you to be with OM, or she will pressurise you, up to and including going to court, to get you out of the home. In either of these scenarios you will be a part-time father.

In your position, assuming you have done Plan A for a reasonable amount of time in order to lay the groundwork, I would go to court first, before she does so, to get HER out of the home. As the child's father, you should argue and demonstrate that you are capable of caring for your child whilst she is not, because she is having an affair. Get the best lawyer you can and fight for residential custody (or whatever it is called in your state).

What you are doing by living together isn't Plan B. Either continue Plan A for longer (and I would not blame you if you have had enough of that) or take legal action to enforce Plan B.

That is, unless you are prepared to live in the same house with your wife while she conducts her affair, indefinitely.

You should post your full story on the forum Surviving an Affair. This forum is not the place to discuss Plan B.
Below was my second post to you. You wouldn't give the age of you child as you were trying not to be identified.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Intentionally general to maintain anonymity...

How old are you? How old is your WS(wayward spouse)?
Early 40's, late 30's

Do you have any children? How old are they?
1, elementary

How long have you been married? Is this the first marriage for both of you?
10, yes

How did your WS meet their AP?
Dancing, at a "girls night out"

How long did the A last?
Ongoing 11 months, refuses to stop.

How did you find out about the A?
Cellphone bill.

Have you ordered the book Surviving an Affairby DrHarley? Have you read it?
No book, but have read website content. Trying to adapt to unique circumstances.....but from the preceding responses, not possible.
Are you being mysterious in order to tease? Do you think it brings more interest to your story?

How would giving your ages identify you?

I am particularly keen to know how old your child is. The term "elementary" does not mean anything to me, my dear Watson, even though I am British. Is your child 2, or 8? How would it identify you to give that detail?

That detail matters when it comes to our advice about handling this.
I thought the age of your child was very important, because if she was 2, then perhaps you could not make her understand about the affair, but if she was 8, then you most certainly could. This was all connected to ending the situation of your living in the house with your wife and trying not to let your child know that you are estranged because she is having an affair. You should not have been trying to do that - not if you were trying to use Marriage Builders, anyway.

The details we were asking were important, but you seemed determined not to tell us something as non-identifying as the age of your child. Did you know that you would be advised to do things differently once we knew the full details of what you hadn't done so far? Since you've been here for a while, you must have done.

Other people had frustrations with your evasions too, and the evasions were all connected with your unwillingness to do anything to fight for your family. Exposure is the first tool in the affair-fighting armoury, and that includes exposing to the other person's spouse, and to your children.

It turned out that not only had you not exposed to anyone, you hadn't even tried to discover OM's identity. You hadn't tried to bust up the affair, and you were willing to le your wife live with you and have sex with whomever she pleased - and you were asking about Plan B under those circumstances. What a mess. No wonder this information had to be dragged out of you.

Well, you don't have to answer any questions, and you do don't have to take any advice - though I am at a loss to know why you wouldn't fight for your child's future.
We've seen this before, DD. A poster will come here, full of of anger, hurt and frustration over their spouse's infidelity.

They come here for comfort and commiseration. And you'll get a good dose of that. But you're on a site that is unlike many others. Most sites will commiserate with you, and that's ALL they'll do. That's easy. We don't do only that, here.

When a poster like you comes on the board, we immediately pull out our marriage-saving equipment and get to work. That's sometimes startling to a new poster and they balk at the thought that they may be able to help themselves. Many times they don't like hearing what they need to do to try to end their spouse's affair. It's unsavory to them, maybe. Or maybe it sounds like too much work, or maybe it sounds too intrusive into their spouse's secret life. We try to disabuse the betrayed spouse of those notions while outlining what they can do to try to end their spouse's affair.

DD, your WW's affair is garden-variety. I know you think it's 'different' or that your situation is 'special' but I can assure you that it is not.

For you to distract yourself with side-topics like taking exception to the posting styles of some posters is a time-suck. Don't waste your time there. Listen to what they are saying. There is a wealth of knowledge here. USE US. That's why we're here. We've been in your 'special' situation.

As far as the posters you've dismissed: I happen to 'know' them well from my posting time here. I know they are quick to forgive the outbursts of new posters because they know you are hurting. I suspect Susie and Sugar will be on deck and ready to help you, because that's why they're here. (My apologies to Susie and Sugar for speaking for them smile )

So please listen to what they advise and let's try to get your wife back home with you, okay?
First I want to say, that I appreciate the clarifications posted my everyone, as well as the rational advice offered,
especially SC & SQ to whom, as a result I owe apologies.

I can see and admit, that I was myopically focused on comments taken out of context.

And I read other things, posted by the same individuals with the same tainted perspective. I was out of line.

And for that, I formally apologize to SC and SQ.

I also have to admit, that I was to a certain degree overwhelmed by the volume of input received that I didn't as SW indicated, "Back up, slow down and LISTEN. READ." Thank you, SW.


Second,
Given the "forever" lifespan of information placed on the internet, I go to what some would consider extreme measures to protect my privacy and avoid disclosing information of any granularity on a venue that is literally by definition "wide open to the world" forever.

Circumstances, yes. Specifics that can be correlated, no.
Sorry, but that's not going to change. I will forever be what some consider "overly cautious" and question the "need to know" of information requests. I fail to see or agree there's a necessity of detailing for example, exact ages, locations, dates,
and circumstantial details from which one could infer a correlation. (bits of information, not necessarily disclosed all at once, but in multiple instances that can be "glued together" (i.e., 45m, 40f, Houston, 9m child) = fits the description of "The Jones" pathetic example I know but I think it demonstrates my point.) IF this detracts from the input that can be provided, I will accept that limitation.


DD
DD you need a plan, and the only question the vets will ask are the necessary questions to help make and execute the plan to be most successful. Not answering the questions will only lead you astray. And reduces your chances of success.

And I think a meteore will hit you before people will actually figure out who you are from answering the general questions.

In addition, you need to bust up the affair, and you can not do that secretly, things are going to come out.

I was horrified to share the dirty laundry, that was trashy I thought, invasion of privacy, a personal matter. But I had a choice, try to safe the marriage, or move on. And later on I discovered how many people already knew.

Anyways, don't disclose names etc, you don't want a google search to find you, but yes, do answer the questions so the vets can help you make the best plan possible for you! Good luck!
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
First I want to say, that I appreciate the clarifications posted my everyone, as well as the rational advice offered,
especially SC & SQ to whom, as a result I owe apologies.
You are very gracious, DD. I appreciate your apology.

Now, shut up and LISTEN! (Except when we ask you questions - then you may speak!)

twoxfour
Quote
Now, shut up and LISTEN! (Except when we ask you questions - then you may speak!)
That Sugar. She's a caution, ain't she. laugh

I understand your desire to remain private online because I am the same way. As far as how much info you need to give: We don't want names, locations or kid's names. Nothing like that. As a matter of fact, the moderators will edit those out as a way of keeping you safe on this site.

No one is going to ask you for identifying info. But there are general things you'll be asked so the posters can get a better sense of how to help you tackle this. If you don't know why the info is needed, ask. If you're comfortable with the reason, supply it. If not, just say you're not comfortable supplying that info. But again, the posters aren't going to ask you for personally identifying info.

DD, did you get the OM's wifes information? Did you copy and paste his facebook contacts into a word doc?
ML

I did.

There are a few "similarities"/duplicates on the friends lists between the wife's and OM's, with the saddest being a little girl, who I am assuming is the OM's child.

It adds to the hurt, knowing two innocent childrens families are going to be destroyed as a result of their parents selfishness.
I'm at the point that I can't tolerate the lying, the shamelessness and mallice anymore, because she seems perfectly content on keeping up her bad behavior until she forces me to initiate a divorce. (Which is what I believe she wants, to avoid her being tagged as "the bad guy".) It's such warped thinking, I have a hard time believing it's the same person who not too long ago said, "I love you."

I am considering exposure of the OM in an attempt to stop the affair, but I have to wonder if like I said earlier it will do anything other than ingrain the resentment and unwilling to forgive mindset and ratchet up the bad havior out of spite, worsening the circumstances for our child, and myself in the future.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I am considering exposure of the OM in an attempt to stop the affair, but I have to wonder if like I said earlier it will do anything other than ingrain the resentment and unwilling to forgive mindset and ratchet up the bad havior out of spite, worsening the circumstances for our child, and myself in the future.

Resentment is a consequence of the fog, which is caused by the affair. If you effectively kill the affair, this won't be a problem. What typically happens is that when the fog wears off, the WW actually THANKS the BH for the exposure, because it brought her back to her senses.

Now, you will rachet up the spiteful behavior if you do a half assed exposure. The reason is because a half assed exposure is just enough to piss off the affairees but not enough to kill the affair. It is like bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight. You just infuriate your opponent and cause him to shoot harder.

You WILL infuriate her when you first expose the affair. Just count on that. You have to understand that this is just like bringing in a crowd of people to the crackhouse to watch the crackheads get high. They are FURIOUS that you interrupted their high, but when the drug wears off, they are grateful that you got them out of the crackhouse. Do you see what I mean?

There are no guarantees with exposure, but it is your BEST CHANCE at saving your marriage. Like I said earlier, affairs thrive on secrecy, so there is no other weapon that is as effective as exposure in killing them.

Your marriage CAN survive her temporary fury over exposure, but it can't survive an ongoing affair. You should not be afraid of her anger. Just expect it and focus on killing her affair. THAT will give you the best chance of saving your marriage.

Exposure should be done with precision and thought to get the best outcome. It should be done on the same day in order to effect a TSUNAMI. You will want to CALL family members and the OM's wife personally. CALL THE OM'S WIFE FIRST AND THEN MOVE ONTO THE OTHER CALLS. Be sure and give the OMW's your wife's cell phone # and work # in case she wants to call her. You need to enlist her parents, close sibs, family members and friends to call her up and try and persuade her to end her affair.

When you speak to her folks tell them about the affair, explain you love your wife and are doing everything in your power to save your marriage. Tell them you are calling them because they are an influential person in her life. ASK THEM TO CALL HER AND USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO PERSUADE HER TO END HER AFFAIR. It would also be great if her parents could call the OM and tell him to BUZZ OFF. They should make it clear to your WW and the OM that he will not be allowed to darken their doorstep.

I would then move onto to a facebook exposure of the OM's contacts. Start with his parents. Ask them to call you personally. Expose to the OM's other contacts. If he has alot, then prioritize them starting with parents, family, married friends. Try and expose to the OMW's parents too.

Here are some sample letters you can use [be sure and change your fb picture to one of you, your wife, and your children] SEND THE LETTER OUT VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE AND SPACE IT 60 SECONDS APART SO YOU ARE NOT SHUT DOWN FOR FLOODING:

Quote
Dear friend of Joe Scumbag,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. Joe had an affair with my wife, Sally, from Aug until September. I believe that his friends should know this, so you can protect your marriage from him. My wife and I have 2 small daughters and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BH

***********************


Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW
After you have done this, I would sit down any children age 4 and above and tell them all about their mother's affair. Tell them why adultery is immoral and give them the NAME of the OM. He is the enemy of their family and they have a right to know who the fox in the henhouse is. Tell them you are doing everything in your power to save their family. They should feel perfectly free to question their mother on the reasons why she is destroying their family. That is their RIGHT.

They have to know the facts about the tension in their home or they will conclude they are the cause. Little kids can deal with the truth much better than lies and if you lie to them, you will just be teaching them that dishonesty is acceptable.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

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Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.


Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

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2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I'm at the point that I can't tolerate the lying, the shamelessness and mallice anymore, because she seems perfectly content on keeping up her bad behavior until she forces me to initiate a divorce. (Which is what I believe she wants, to avoid her being tagged as "the bad guy".)

You know what women want? They want a husband who will fight for their marriage and who is man enough to put her in her place. She hates you because you tolerate her abuse. Yes, she will be angry at first, but you will see her turn into a pussycat once she sees you won't tolerate the abuse anymore. She will take a new look at you if you start fighting.

And see, you are in a position to win. The OM is not going to leave his wife over a cheap piece of side action. And even if he did, their affair would never last. You are in the best position to win because a) you have history with her, b) you are the father of her children, c) you are her husband. You have a distinct advantage over this loser.

As soon as you start raising holy hell with loser boy, he will run like the dog he is. OM are pansies. You start giving him hell, and he will run. You can win if you just start fighting, DD.
Yes. WW will get hissing, spitting mad and she will get over it.
Expect it. Do not get mad back. Just deflect the venom (and it will be exorcist level stuff she will throw at you).
Yes. The kids will be upset. But them being upset by the truth is more empowering to them then being upset by the unknown situation in their family. Knowledge is power even for the young ones. They are people too you know.
p.s. if she tries to throw you out, tell her no thankee Bob!! smile And if she tries to take your children [a common threat] just tell her you will get a court order to bring them back and will use evidence of her adultery with a married man to do so. We had judges who were so infuriated at this ploy with a wayward wife who snatched the kids out of their home, that he gave the BH possession of the home and told the WW to go home and pack and get out!! And leave the kids with the H.

You need to paint her a very ugly picture of the future if she tries to bring any legal action. Remind her that you can subpeona loserboy to court to give testimony of his adultery, which would speak to her fitness as a parent.

Expect her to make some wild threats and just counter them calmly so she understands that you have the upper hand and won't be rolling over and playing dead. Most WW's have this fantasy that they can just kick their H out at will.

Here is the message you should be sending to this scumbag who has assaulted your family - you need to run that bastage off!!:

I understand the method.

But there's an aspect I don't think anyone's addressed.

Given, " Tell them you are calling them because they are an influential person in her life. ASK THEM TO CALL HER ANDUSETHEIR INFLUENCE TO PERSUADE HER TO END HER AFFAIR."

In the circumstance where there is no one from either her family or mine who would have any influence on her, and there is literally ONE friend who would remotely have an opportunity to "get through to her", and this friend knows the behavior she's engaging in and had / continues to express her displeasure and get her to wake up, and even her pleas of common sense fall on deaf ears.......exposure is of no benefit other than being viewed as smearing.

If there is any hope of reconciliation, the last thing I want is for "the world" to know about my wifes bad behavior.

This is why I am considering exposure from the OM perspective.

Does a "one sided exposure" have less of an impact ?
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
But there's an aspect I don't think anyone's addressed.


In the circumstance where there is no one from either her family or mine who would have any influence on her, and there is literally ONE friend who would remotely have an opportunity to "get through to her", and this friend knows the behavior she's engaging in and had / continues to express her displeasure and get her to wake up, and even her pleas of common sense fall on deaf ears.......exposure is of no benefit other than being viewed as smearing.

You don't know who will or won't have an influence on her, so don't pre-judge that. You don't know. So don't rule out anyone. Often NO ONE will have any influence over her, but having her hear from others will force her to see herself through their eyes. It is a much needed cold splash of reality. Just the exposure has a great negative effect on the affair and her attitude towards the affair.

Another way it has great benefit is your WW will know she can never have a future with the OM because if the whole family knows all about it, she can't ever bring him around. They will know she is shagging a married man so she can't introduce him as some new boyfriend in the future. '

Quote
f there is any hope of reconciliation, the last thing I want is for "the world" to know about my wifes bad behavior.

It is the exact OPPOSITE. If there is to be any hope of reconciliation, the last thing you want is for the affair to be kept secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy, after all! Keep in mind, exposure is a positive thing, not a negative thing.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
If there is any hope of reconciliation, the last thing I want is for "the world" to know about my wifes bad behavior.

Another way to look at this is that a halfway exposure is unlikely to lead to reconciliation because it is unlikely to be effective in killing the affair. Usually it has the opposite effect in that it causes more problems than it purports to solve.

Just know that if your wife is serious about reconciliation, exposure will not stop her. Wild horses will not stop her.
No luck looking up phone #.
Have a list of names from Facebook, but white page listings are empty.
And I hear the logic, but I know my wife, as well as the estranged nature of the in-laws, they barely and rarely talk, and there is no credence given when they do speak.

So, reality is....."the field of right people" is few and the best hope she's already and on ongoingly is rejecting her input.
Devoted,

If I can chime in here, because I would not have a marriage right now w/ out listening to mel, marital, etc. (and I didn't do it perfect, either).

I, too, thought we had NO ONE to expose to....haven't spoken to family in years, very few friends, etc.

I exposed to:

*W's aunt, uncle, 2 closest work colleagues (work affair)
*our children
*OMs mom, brother, 2 sisters, EMPLOYER

OM was fired from job within 2 HOURS of boss receiving exposure letter. Om went apesxxt at work, and toward my W.

Letting the 'world' know destroyed any hope that there would be any future between my W and this OM -- fantasy killed, done.

My W was spitting mad, angry, threatened divorce, moving out, etc. all the usual crap...this lasted for a weekend. Then done.

When W called family to 'complain' about my exposing -- how could I??? -- you know what their response was???

1. if you would've ended this on your own, the right way, H wouldn't have had to do this.
2. if you don't like the consequences, you shouldn't have had an affair
3. your H is simply fighting for his marriage and his family

THERE WERE NO ALLIES FOR HER -- REGARDLESS IF THE MARRIAGE WAS "BAD" BEFORE. NO ALLIES FOR ADULTERY!!!

That takes the oxygen right out...

Oh, OMs mommy called me too -- what a great conversation...let's just say after that, I knew my W's relationship w/ OM was over, and she wouldn't be getting invited to any family get togethers with OM anytime soon...oh, the things OMs mommy said about my wife.

And, I mentioned to my W, when I did file for divorce, I would be requesting the house, full custody...and subpeona the OM and all phone/work records, etc. that showed proof of the affair.

As was explained to me -- too many times before I listened -- exposure will not end your marriage....but an affair will.

The ONLY way to have a CHANCE to salvage your marriage?

EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE.

(BTW -- Mel's right, and unbelievably so -- a repentant wife committed to recovery is an incredible force. Can you believe that sometimes it is my W carrying me, the BS, through the tough days of recovery???).

Expose.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
And I hear the logic, but I know my wife, as well as the estranged nature of the in-laws, they barely and rarely talk, and there is no credence given when they do speak.

So, reality is....."the field of right people" is few and the best hope she's already and on ongoingly is rejecting her input.

Reality is.... The longer you wait the more damage gets done. The more the affair gets entrenched.

Stop letting fear control you. Exposure does not work if not done fully. Many WW won't listen to much after exposure. Though fear and will still react to exposure because they fear that people will know that they are acting as a woman of low morals (slut).
to second TheRoad:

I could've/should've exposed in December....I waited till March.

we're in recovery, but would've been a whole lot better, a bit further along, if I hadn't waited.

Get it done -- then you'll know who is truly pro-marriage, pro-family and who is not.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
And I hear the logic, but I know my wife, as well as the estranged nature of the in-laws, they barely and rarely talk, and there is no credence given when they do speak.

So, reality is....."the field of right people" is few and the best hope she's already and on ongoingly is rejecting her input.

Thats ok, most relatives are estranged in these situations. Thats ok. We know your wife too, and more than that, we know how affairs are busted up.
...if I knew how effective exposure would be (even though it seems so counter-intuitive) I would've done an even more sweeping exposure...a billboard would be pushing it, but I would've done it if it meant saving my marriage and keeping my family intact.

I am still embarrassed and regretful I didn't listen to mel, marital, etc. earlier, and they probably still think I am an idiot for hesitating, especially since seeing the results since march (not perfect, but progress).

Shed light on it, and it will die. maybe not immediately, but the affair will not be able to sustain itself and crush under the weight of what is good, not evil.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Have a list of names from Facebook, but white page listings are empty.

DD, with the facebook contacts, you will just send them a private message using the template I gave you. What are you checking the white pages for? For the OMW's phone #? If you can't get a # for her, you can send her a facebook message and ask her to call you.

What is the issue between your wife and her family members?

helpfordads, thanks for coming over and encouraging DD! You are awesome!
Thanks, Mel.

Time to pay it forward and help others not make the mistake of hesitating to do what needs to be done to kill an affair.

Hope you are well.

DD -- you can do this, and if you want to save your marriage, you must.

Good luck.
And I will add this

if the family has such little input into your W's life, exposing to them won't do anything negative for ya....so there is no reason to not do it with them. Same all other possible exposure points.

Originally Posted by reading
And I will add this

if the family has such little input into your W's life, exposing to them won't do anything negative for ya....so there is no reason to not do it with them. Same all other possible exposure points.

I agree with reading's reasoning. And even if they have very little influence over your WW, they can have a huge impact on the affair and be a great support to you. You will also gain support for YOURSELF from her family.

We have actually had mother-in-laws who singlehandedly busted up the affair!! MrW's mother in law ran off the OM herself by calling him up and threatening him. Affair ended that day!!

If my DIL called me up and told me my son was having an affair, you can bet I would be raising holy hell on the affair.
DD,

It pains me to write this, but when OMs mommy called me, she had much to say, including:

*"my son would never do such a thing"
*"I hope your W is seeing professional help"
*"your W was the instigator here, not my son"
*"maybe I'll contact your jobs and have you both fired, too"

and, as we ended the conversation:

*"I'll talk to my son....you both need to leave us alone and please don't ever send me a letter or contact me again"


Does that sound like the affair had any future after that??? And that wasn't even anyone related to my W -- not even family or friends!

Exposure works.
As ML indicated, "Exposure should be done with precision and thought to get the best outcome."

I intend to do just that.

Bare with me, because I am envisioning a lot of preperation, including legal counsel for a risk assessment of defending against a suite, baseless as it may be, responding , retaining counsel and defending to get it dismissed because there is no loser pays concept. =. $$$$
NG,

Where's your list of who/how to expose?

DD needs it, stat!
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
legal counsel for a risk assessment

This was my reply when they threatened to sue me for libel/slander.

'Go right ahead! Thank you in advance for providing me with further evidence of your affair with your phone records, email logs etc both privately and from you place of employment that we will subpoena during discovery. Didn't expect additional evidence would be that easy to get, again thank you! '

Never heard a peep of that again. They may threaten, but has the truth ever gotten anybody sued? That is just all empty, the harder they bark, the better your job at busting hte affair was!
Quote
I am still embarrassed and regretful I didn't listen to mel, marital, etc. earlier, and they probably still think I am an idiot for hesitating, especially since seeing the results since march (not perfect, but progress).
Now, Dad. Don't be hard on yourself. Granted, you WERE one of our tougher posters to drag on board with the concept of exposure smile. I admit I still have a few dents on my forehead from repeated exposure to the brick wall. banghead

But you did it, and saved your marriage! You're a hero to your wife! Good on ya! hurray I'm hoping for a similar outcome for DD.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
As ML indicated, "Exposure should be done with precision and thought to get the best outcome."

I intend to do just that.

Bare with me, because I am envisioning a lot of preperation, including legal counsel for a risk assessment of defending against a suite, baseless as it may be, responding , retaining counsel and defending to get it dismissed because there is no loser pays concept. =. $$$$
rotflmao On what grounds? Telling the truth? Tell them to bring it on!

Get your exposure done.
I was threatened with a lawsuit by OW and told her to go ahead and I would countersue her for all sorts of things. I never heard boo about it again.

The best defense for such a suit....is that what you exposed was truth.

Its a common ploy to shut a person up. Just be forewarned you probably will hear threats like that once the exposure is done.

Remember.....excorsist worthy threats meant to shut you up and control your actions.
I'm talking about what, I'm terms of circumstantial evidence is sufficient to
Support a statement such as "XYZ has been engaging in an affair with my spouse."
What is adequate "proof" to support that statement ?
Given there are no 'smoking gun' elements such as pictures, or eyewitnesses.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I'm talking about what, I'm terms of circumstantial evidence is sufficient to
Support a statement such as "XYZ has been engaging in an affair with my spouse."
What is adequate "proof" to support that statement ?
Given there are no 'smoking gun' elements such as pictures, or eyewitnesses.
Hasn't your WW already admitted it? Have you printed off OM's FB page? You can have cell phone records subpoenaed as well.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
As ML indicated, "Exposure should be done with precision and thought to get the best outcome."

I intend to do just that.

Bare with me, because I am envisioning a lot of preperation, including legal counsel for a risk assessment of defending against a suite, baseless as it may be, responding , retaining counsel and defending to get it dismissed because there is no loser pays concept. =. $$$$

DD, this sounds like conflict avoidance to me as it is based on an irrational assessment of risk. First off, it is not against the law in the US to tell the truth. Secondly, if you are threatened with such a lawsuit, you should WELCOME it, because it will force the affairees to produce all their communications under discovery. A cheater is not going to be apt to subject himself to such scrutiny. That is why in my 10 years on this board, after hundreds of exposure, there has never been a suit brought. There have been lots of threats and empty promises to do this over the years but no one has ever given us the pleasure of bringing such a suit for obvious reasons.

Most attorneys can be expected to tell you to take NO risk, so what do you do if you get one who tells you not to do it? Sacrifice your marriage based on a very irrational risk assessment?

If you are really concerned about lawsuits, you should be more concerned about the divorce suit you are currently headed for. If you don't expose the affair, you are very likely headed for divorce. That is a REAL RISK that you seem to be ignoring.
You can always say you will request polygraphs of all parties to prove the truth.
Seriously, do you believe they would go a law suit which will require that THEY get on the stand and make a statement and risk perjury?!
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I'm talking about what, I'm terms of circumstantial evidence is sufficient to
Support a statement such as "XYZ has been engaging in an affair with my spouse."
What is adequate "proof" to support that statement ?
Given there are no 'smoking gun' elements such as pictures, or eyewitnesses.


As an attorney myself, I've often suggested on MB that it may be prudent (if you don't have absolute proof of sex) to use the term "affair" rather than "adultery". An "affair" doesn't have to be sexual at all to be true...whereas "adultery' has a specific legal definition.

Doesn't matter much...they'll only sue if they think they can shut you up for the time being and prevent further exposure...which is why you get it done all up front and with one swoop. Then you can just say..."ooops, my bad. Didn't realize your friendship was big secret. I won't do it anymore"

After that...there's no sense in them suing you as public courtroom is the last place a wayward wants to be.

Mr. Wondering
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I'm talking about what, I'm terms of circumstantial evidence is sufficient to
Support a statement such as "XYZ has been engaging in an affair with my spouse."
What is adequate "proof" to support that statement ?
Given there are no 'smoking gun' elements such as pictures, or eyewitnesses.

What is your evidence of an affair?
Listen to Mr. W. He's an attorney.

You'll otherwise just waste your money.

Now, read other people's threads. You'll see what exposure does. Exposure KILLS affairs.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Bare with me, because I am envisioning a lot of preperation, including legal counsel for a risk assessment of defending against a suite, baseless as it may be, responding , retaining counsel and defending to get it dismissed because there is no loser pays concept. =. $$$$

Your plan is apparently to get a lawyer to tell you a worst case scenario about a groundless lawsuit so that you will decide not to expose after all. In the meantime, you will have taken so long to "prepare" that it will be too late for exposure to really be effective.

Have you read other threads here to see what worked and what didn't?
Originally Posted by reading
And I will add this

if the family has such little input into your W's life, exposing to them won't do anything negative for ya....so there is no reason to not do it with them. Same all other possible exposure points.


Except being viewed as an attempt to paint her in the worst light possible with as many people as possible out of spite.

Like I said, I would prefer to minimize the perception of doing this out of anything other than a "last ditch effort" to save my family from being destroyed.
It has nothing to do with smearing, although I fully expect it to be interpreted in the most negative perspective as possible.
And/or as my attempt to "play the martyr".
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Except being viewed as an attempt to paint her in the worst light possible with as many people as possible out of spite.

Yes, that is how she will view it. EXPECT it and EMBRACE it. She will accuse you of being spiteful, just as the falling down drunk accuses you of being spiteful when you take the keys to the car away.

Quote
Like I said, I would prefer to minimize the perception of doing this out of anything other than a "last ditch effort" to save my family from being destroyed.

Worrying about how you will be perceived is a waste of time. You have no control over the perceptions of your wife or anyone else. You need to worry about doing what you need to do to save your marriage.

Your wife will perceive you as "vindictive""hateful," blah, blah, blah..... That is an expectation. Some people will also criticize you for exposing. That is an expectation.

NEXT!
Make NO mistakes....it will be viewed as an attempt to be 'mean' out of spite.
It WILL. That means you hit a home run.
Waywards have a warped view of the world that means all things getting in the way of the fantasy romance are spiteful. Cause the world revolves around them while they are wayward.
You will get no rewards from the wayward for exposing but it is the right, strong, proper thing to do anyway. It is the right action even though some will see it as a campaign born from spite. Cause it isn't. They are wrong. You have to go into it knowing you won't get love immediately, but you do it anyway.
Oh. Those of us here know cause we lived it. And we would do it again. Whatever impact it had on the affair, we would do THAT important thing. It is that critical overall.
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And/or as my attempt to "play the martyr".
Exposure is done to bring light to the affair and to pull it out of the darkness where it thrives. The goal is to expose to someone/anyone who can influence your WW to end the affair.

Whether it makes you look good, bad or indifferent is not the goal.
I really appreciate all of the input.

Especially the distinction of terminology between affair and adultery.

Given, the only 'evidence' that exists is circumstantial but "hard"
is phone/text records.

Local Lawyer indicated expense of a PI not warranted because ultimately if things go down the path of dissolution, "No fault" makes it a moot point.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I really appreciate all of the input.

Especially the distinction of terminology between affair and adultery.

Given, the only 'evidence' that exists is circumstantial but "hard"
is phone/text records.

Hasn't your wife admitted to an affair? Her admission is a big portion of your evidence. And when you expose, you are simply going to say "According to the evidence, Joe Scumbag is having an affair wtih my wife, Susie, ............."

Quote
Local Lawyer indicated expense of a PI not warranted because ultimately if things go down the path of dissolution, "No fault" makes it a moot point.

BE sure and double check this. In many no fault states, adultery is taken into account. It is used to determine custody and property division in many no fault states. You have to keep in mind that the goal of an attorney is to take the easiest, softest path and facilitate a nice, easy "amicable" divorce. I would suggest you do your own research before you take his word on anything.
I think to some degree, I've been dealing with the warped perspective Reading
Referenced for so long, along with my personality of trying to predict someone's
reaction and what I will do if a.), if b.) or if c.) happens,

One thing I've learned is there are absolutely no limits to the waywards ability to twist things and be unpredictable and inconsistent with their pre-wayward selves.
ML

Admission is not proveable to the OM's spouse/family/friends.....that's all I'm saying.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
ML

Admission is not proveable to the OM's spouse/family/friends.....that's all I'm saying.

But it is evidence of an affair. And you can use it. You don't need to have a video of them having sex to expose the affair. You don't need to get into all that. Just explain that she is having an affair and has confessed this to you.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I
One thing I've learned is there are absolutely no limits to the waywards ability to twist things and be unpredictable and inconsistent with their pre-wayward selves.

VEry true. And this is an expectation. It is much like trying to control or anticipate the reaction of a falling down drunk. You can expect your wife to be infuriated, to make threats and to spin the truth.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I really appreciate all of the input.

Especially the distinction of terminology between affair and adultery.

Given, the only 'evidence' that exists is circumstantial but "hard"
is phone/text records.

Local Lawyer indicated expense of a PI not warranted because ultimately if things go down the path of dissolution, "No fault" makes it a moot point.
So when are you going to expose?
Don't know yet. When I'm prepared for the atomic fallout.

Financially, emotionally, and legally(having recieved advice on what she can and can't do in the aftermath, as well as actions I need to take to protect my child's and my own interests in the interim and long term should my spouse choose to not attempt to reconcile.)

And I don't know if, how or what to do with respect to handling our child.

It's a lot to digest.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
When I'm prepared for the atomic fallout.

I am not sure that I understand this hesitation. What choices do you really have? To allow your WW to continue to brazenly conduct her affair right in front of your face? After 11 months (or however long you said this has been going on for) I hope you now realize she is not going to end this on her own. She is probably waiting for the OM to tell her he is leaving his BW.

All this hashing out of every last detail to "prepare" yourself is not going to make it any easier to expose. You could analyze the what if's for the next three weeks and guess what? You will be just as scared to do it then as you are today.

I know how much it sucks because I just did it myself this past summer. After 3+ yrs of being on this site and being a fierce advocate of exposure, when it came time to do it myself, I was a mess and it was horrible. But you just have to make your plan, embrace the support that you have, and push through the fear.

Extra day you put it off hurts your chances of recovery and deprives the OMW of knowing what is going on behind her back which is truly a crime.

Has anyone here mentioned to you that most married men WILL NOT leave their BWs for the OW? Most of the time when BHs expose to the OMW, the affair ends. You should expose to all key targets in one fell swoop just to be sure to kill the affair dead and not just enough to drive it underground...
And PLEASE don't warn your WW or threaten exposure in an effort to get avoid it in the hopes that holding the threat over her head will get her to end the affair. That doesn't work and will backfire on you BIG time.
The only preparation for the atomic fallout is prepping yourself to appear calm in the face of the vile that will be flung your way.
Prepping yourself to breath through the flames spewed at you and to appear serene as you heart pumps at max speed within your chest.
That is the prep. Knowing its a coming and that you will need to not appear disturbed. Its all you can do.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
As ML indicated, "Exposure should be done with precision and thought to get the best outcome."

I intend to do just that.

Bare with me, because I am envisioning a lot of preperation, including legal counsel for a risk assessment of defending against a suite, baseless as it may be, responding , retaining counsel and defending to get it dismissed because there is no loser pays concept. =. $$$$

There is no way one can be sued for telling the truth.

**edit**

And, as you keep stalling, I hope you know how the OM is taking advantage of all the time you are buying him, and what he is doing to your WW.

What are you waiting for?

For the OM to knock up your WW?

Did you know that most WW and OM have unprotected SF?


**edit**
Has nothing to do with anatomy or biology,
It's common sense.

Being prepared for what you expect to happen,
Gives you the ability to deal with what you didn't expect to happen.

Only a fool would throw a grenade and not take cover.


Sorry, DD, but I aint buying it.

This is stalling tactic is very much in line with what we saw from you in the beginning of the thread when you wouldn't answer the questions about exposure.

As far as being "prepared", you were going to go into Plan B when you didn't even seem to fully understand what Plan B means and instead of asking more questions about Plan B was, you asked about the toxic environment it would create with a hostile WS.

Again, I will point out to you that no matter how much you try to "prepare" yourself, exposure is going to be tough especially if you are afraid to upset your WS.

This is very salvageable but you are going to have MAN UP and fight for your M. When you are ready to expose, let me know and I will come back and help you. Good luck.
SQ,

Thank you, for accepting my apology.

I have to do what I feel is best for me, and my child, and only I know what that is.

And I will be dealing with the aftermath, no one here will be impacted in the least.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
SQ,

Thank you, for accepting my apology.

I have to do what I feel is best for me, and my child, and only I know what that is.

And I will be dealing with the aftermath, no one here will be impacted in the least.
Only you can determine how you want to live as a family. I suspect your goal is to have a happy, intact family. If that's the case, you'll get plenty of agreement here.

Unless, of course, you want to kick your wife out and send her to OM. Maybe you think THAT'S best for you and your son. You'll get no argument from me if you really believe that.

But I think you need to get over the abrasive attitude you're currently laboring under. It's not helping you.

ARE YOU GOING TO EXPOSE YOUR WIFE'S AFFAIR? Because if you have no intention of doing so, you should let everyone know NOW. As a former betrayed wife whose husband's affair died THE DAY IT WAS EXPOSED, I'll waste no more of your time. As you sit, idly, examining your navel and whining about the lack of intact relatives. doh2
Quote
Only a fool would throw a grenade and not take cover.
Only a coward would hold the grenade and waffle over pulling the pin while he watches his loved ones getting blown up.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Thank you, for accepting my apology.

I assume you meant this to be facetious since I didn't mention anything about accepting an apology. To be honest, I am in the NE and have had no power and have been displaced since Saturday, staying at a hotel and now at my parents due to no power, food or heat at my house and had forgotten about that... Yes, I accept.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I have to do what I feel is best for me, and my child, and only I know what that is.

Presumably, saving your marriage would be best for you and your child, even at the expense of dealing with a raging WS for a few days. There is no saving the marriage until you end the affair first. There is no ending the affair or chance for recovery until you expose.

It really is that simple.
"Abrasive attitude' ????
SQ

No facieousness at all.

I assumed by the fact you responded at all and did not remain silent, that indicated acceptance.

Sorry about the weather calamity. Power is a necessity nearly as basic as water these days. :-(
DD,

You hesitate and it leads nowhere. The only way to end the affair is to expose it to those that will put the most pressure on it. It's really very simple. You expose to her family, his family, your family, your friends, her friends, and work if it is a workplace affair.

All this talk about protecting yourself is nothing more than stalling. No one on this forum has ever been sued for exposure.

It shows you have no knowledge of the law. Telling the truth isn't something you can be sued for. There is a thing called "discovery" where anyone suing you would have to disclose all documents that could be relevant to the case. That means they'd have to legally hand over all emails, texts, bank records, etc, that could matter.

That's evidence they would have to present, which would simply show you were telling the truth.

In terms of custody, it wouldn't hurt you. It takes a lot more than bringing adultery to light to hurt you and an affair is totally relevant since it exposes you to STDs, so you do indeed have a major stake in ending it.

So right now you're just stalling and giving a weak a$$ excuse for not taking action.

Enjoy twiddling your thumbs while OM does your wife. You may as well offer to bring her and him some water when they're doing screwing. Bring some fresh towels as well and standby for any other needs they may have.

Do you understand that this is enabling behavior? Do you understand that hope is not a plan?

Do you get the fact that we've been on this forum for years and know what works and have seen countless affairs end when the man finally mans up, grows a pair, and exposes?

Read a few threads and see for yourself.

Wake up and do something. Otherwise, fetch some water and some towels. Perhaps you can play some romantic music while they go at it.
Please listen to these guys I did not listen to them at first either. Things are better since I have listened if I had done what they said when they said to do it. I believe I would not have to worry about my wife having my kids around the OM who was charged with electronic solicitation if a minor. PLEASE Listen if not for you then for your child! FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT! If this does end in divorce be able to hold your head up high and so you fought for your family. You won't have to do what I occasionally do and ask what would have happened if I had listened to the advice given to me sooner.
"All this talk about protecting yourself is nothing more than stalling."

I can see how it could be viewed from that perspective.

But what I've yet to see acknowledged are the negative aspects, while emphasizing the imperative nature of exposure.

Is it completely outside the realm of possibility, that a spouse who views the exposure as mean and spiteful and is furious in their mind at being "smeared" and having their bubble burst....would be vindictive enough to clean out the bank account, charge up the joint credit cards ?

Everyone acknowledges that the WW is not "thinking straight or even remotely logically".....yet it seems perfectly acceptable to "poke the bear" without even making sure your rifle is loaded or you even have any means in place to protect yourself.

Sorry for the bad analogies.

I honestly don't understand the criticism of doing anything other than moving "full speed ahead".


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2486981

When Should An Affair Be Exposed?
By Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.
10.28.09

"Some feel that an affair should not be exposed to children. Granted, I would not tell a 3-year old about an affair,....But I would not hesitate to reveal an affair to a child 7 years or older.

Exposure to those between those ages should be a matter of discretion."

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
"
Is it completely outside the realm of possibility, that a spouse who views the exposure as mean and spiteful and is furious in their mind at being "smeared" and having their bubble burst....would be vindictive enough to clean out the bank account, charge up the joint credit cards ?

DD, all spouses do view exposure as mean and spiteful. That is an expectation. And yes, some have cleaned out bank accounts so it is a good idea to move any large amounts of money to a safe place if you have reason to believe she will clean you out. Typically we don't see a WS charge up joint credit cards. However, it might be a good idea to take your name off any joint credit cards if you feel this would be a risk.

This is the kind of thing we expect you to think through without our help. It is helpful for YOU to take a proactive approach and move your money and take other protective measures if you think it necessary.

I don't think there is much more we can help you with. We have spent an enormous amount of time with you and you don't seem to be willing to take any action. We have given you the tools, now it is up to you to use them or not.

I wish you the best. smile
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
DD, all spouses do view exposure as mean and spiteful. That is an expectation. And yes, some have cleaned out bank accounts so it is a good idea to move any large amounts of money to a safe place if you have reason to believe she will clean you out. Typically we don't see a WS charge up joint credit cards. However, it might be a good idea to take your name off any joint credit cards if you feel this would be a risk.

This is the kind of thing we expect you to think through without our help. It is helpful for YOU to take a proactive approach and move your money and take other protective measures if you think it necessary.


This is all I was referring to when I said I needed to prepare.

And I received feedback like,
"All this talk about protecting yourself is nothing more than stalling." "You hesitate and it leads nowhere."

Maybe it was because there was a presumption that the 'preparation' to which I as referring was "assumed".

I appreciate all of the input and assistance thus far, and will
continue to post questions to those who have been the benefit of trial by fire and are willing to share, because they are valuable perspectives.

I won't always agree, but I will always consider any input provided.

DD
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
"But what I've yet to see acknowledged are the negative aspects, while emphasizing the imperative nature of exposure.

This is not accurate. We have told you from the start about negative aspects of exposure. We told you right up front that she would be furious, enraged, and could be expected to make all manner of threats. So yes, we did tell you this.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
DD, all spouses do view exposure as mean and spiteful. That is an expectation. And yes, some have cleaned out bank accounts so it is a good idea to move any large amounts of money to a safe place if you have reason to believe she will clean you out. Typically we don't see a WS charge up joint credit cards. However, it might be a good idea to take your name off any joint credit cards if you feel this would be a risk.

This is the kind of thing we expect you to think through without our help. It is helpful for YOU to take a proactive approach and move your money and take other protective measures if you think it necessary.


This is all I was referring to when I said I needed to prepare.

And I received feedback like,
"All this talk about protecting yourself is nothing more than stalling." "You hesitate and it leads nowhere."

That is because it typically doesn't take this long for someone to expose. Even the most strategically planned exposure can be planned in 2 days. When someone does have questions, they present them in one or two posts, get their answers, and then proceed.

What other issues did you have questions about?
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
[
I appreciate all of the input and assistance thus far, and will
continue to post questions to those who have been the benefit of trial by fire and are willing to share, because they are valuable perspectives.

What are your other questions? If you post them here, I will answer them for you.
What's typical, certainly explains the sense of urgency and exasperation
I sensed in a lot of the responses.

If I am anything, I am atypical. :-)

One thing I was thinking about after seeing the OM's wall of pictures on Facebook and the pictures posted by OM's wife:

Out of consideration for the OM's wife, might it be worth contacting her First
Before opening up the apeture and exposing to the relatives and friends ?

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
What's typical, certainly explains the sense of urgency and exasperation
I sensed in a lot of the responses.

If I am anything, I am atypical. :-)

But you are typical for someone who is not very serious about taking the steps to save his marriage. That is the cause of the frustration you see. Someone who is serious takes about 2 days to put a plan together. I see no plan here after 4 days. People get frustrated when they decide they are more serious than you and tend to avoid such threads. I hope they are wrong about that and that you truly are serious.

Quote
One thing I was thinking about after seeing the OM's wall of pictures on Facebook and the pictures posted by OM's wife:

Out of consideration for the OM's wife, might it be worth contacting her First
Before opening up the apeture and exposing to the relatives and friends ?

Of course. And I suggested this very thing yesterday:
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
CALL THE OM'S WIFE FIRST AND THEN MOVE ONTO THE OTHER CALLS.
I didn't get that interpretation from that statement.

I read that as an order of operation, rather than a potential
For only contacting the OM's spouse.

My son is studying idioms at school...I have a good one "s*it or get off the pot" smile Seriously, you have nothing to lose (She's gone already! Your son WILL be from a broken home if she gets her way.) This is your BEST chance at salvaging your marriage. Analyze it to death, but it is your BEST shot at getting your wife home where she belongs. You can do it!!!
I see I didn't communicate my thought clearly .

Sorry, Ml.
I don't know of anybody who did not expose who saved their marriage. Everybody that did said exposure was the key.

Reality is, the longer you wait, the deeper the affair is, the less your change is.

The weaker you expose, the less your change is.

All success stories here have been trough this. Your WW looks down on you right now, she thinks you are a weak spineless POS, in her fantasy you don't measure up, you don't know what it is how to fight or treat a woman.

You burst that fantasy by exposure, all of a sudden you are fighting for her, you are with a spine. Her OM will throw her under the bus like garbage, and you will be there with an projection of a happy for filling marriage.

Again, the more anger there is, the better your job was, the more successful you'll be in the end. Stay calm. But waffle and you will lose everything, you do not stand a chance, no marriage, but a nasty bitter divorce.

Call the wife first, then swoop all at once. My mistake was to trickle expose which prolonged the agony.

The only reason people get divorced is affairs, even in the worst of marriage people stay together, unless there is a 3rd party.

You've been handed all the tools, as things happen, well be here to help you through, it always goes the same way, your situation is NO DIFFERENT then anybody else's. It is NOT atypical. Stay here long enough and you'll see a pattern with little deviation.
DD,

LISTEN, then DO!!!

There is no ending the affair or chance for recovery until you expose. Period.

I am the MB poster child for this.

It took @ 2 days to prep for exposure. That's it. 2 days. One day to make calls/send out letters.

My wife spewed for 2 days. That's it. 2 days.

Then, she had to decide -- marriage and the family, or her AP. Time to get off the fence, no more cake-eating.

To this day, she calls me her hero, thanks me for saving her, our marriage, becasue she was unable to get her head out of her a-- by herself....and I, her husband, rescued her, saved our family.

Stop delaying (I recognize that all too well). Get off your a--, man, and FIGHT FOR YOUR WIFE.

That's what your family is waiting for...be their hero.

If you doubt this, read the beginning of my thread -- December last year....sad and embarrassing. Could've killed her affair in December...I waited til March.

Don't wait. Expose.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
"Abrasive attitude' ????
Uh-huh. [Linked Image from pic4ever.com]

But now's not the time to debate posting styles. Time's a-wasting, DD. How's your exposure list going? Have you made a list of requirements to give your WW for what she'll need to do in order to return to the marriage if/when she storms off in a huff?
Here�s your plan:

Setup a new bank account and move all family assets into it. This takes about 10 minutes when done online.

As far as credit cards go: Any racked up debt will be split evenly in a divorce, so don�t worry about this issue. The last thing on her mind after being exposed will be to go shopping.

Call OM�s wife or tell her via email first. Give her your contact info.

Then proceed to tell everyone on the list.

After exposure is complete, expect for the hellstorm coming your way from her. She�ll spit vile venom at you, threaten divorce, and say idiotic things like:

�How can I trust you after you�ve done this!�
�I was going to work on us and give us a chance, but you just ruined it!�
�You�re just doing this out of spite!�
�Can�t you understand that it�s over between us?�
�How does smearing me help us?�
�You�re ruining his life!�
�You�re violating my privacy!�
�I can�t be in a house where someone is spying on me all the time!�

Etc. Others can weigh in with the responses you can expect.

Your response to all of this is always the same. In your best James Bond, �I will do what I need to to save our marriage.�

�Your affair caused this to happen, not my exposure of it.�

You say these things over and over and over and over as her world crumbles around her.

There is a chance she�ll run off to try to be with OM, but exposure to OM�s wife helps prevent this. She has no money otherwise, so she�s stuck.

Have a voice recorder handy to protect yourself against allegations of abuse, which sometimes happens, though rare.

So there you have it. You have it all laid out. A plan, the response that will come, and what you need to do.
Yep.

My W said many of the same things, cried, drove to Walgreen's.

OM isn't even married, has a bachelor pad....and still, W DID NOT RUN TO HIM!

Came back home 10 minutes later....even went together to our son's basketball game and out to dinner that night.

Why? Adultery is wrong, and running to OM would only be solidifying her immoral behaviors.

And I kept repeating:

"I will do what I need to to save our marriage and keep our family intact"

"Your affair caused this, NOT our marriage".

We're in recovery now...mnot perfect, but here instead of divorced and living with the tatters of a broken family.

Expose now.
Hey DD-
I just spent the last 30 minutes reading through this post. I didn't get all the way to the end though because I was getting just as frustrated as you.

I don't think people realize how rude they are when they reply. Yes, they may have "been there, done that, survived the affair", but it doesn't mean they can be a jerk to the "new people", such as yourself. What you are going through is VERY difficult. I know. I'm in the middle of it myself. I understand the roller coaster of emotions and not knowing from day to day what to do next. So I will give some advice without yelling at you for being hardheaded.

I also have young children. My wife left the house 5 months ago and hasn't returned. But she made it clear that she was leaving me, not our kids. I think that's total crap. She left the family...it's a package deal. But either way...she also said that the kids would never be taken from her. I consulted an attorney and called the local police dept. They told me the same thing you were told: I can't stop her from taking them. So no- it's not as simple as telling her "you can't take your child. He's staying with me." That sounds great, like you're standing up for yourself- but it's not legally possible. So what I did was file for primary physical custody. It infuriated her. But it was the only thing I could do to make sure my children were kept in a safe environment. The hearing isn't until next month, but at least I know I filed first and the situation seem to be in my favor (because I'm the stable one).

Next, I cut contact with her as much as possible. In your case, everyone is right...she needs to leave the house. (But make sure you file for custody first). Once she leaves, it'll be easier to distance yourself. I only talk to my wife when it involves the kids. I wish I didn't even have to do that, but it will show the courts that I'm willing to work with their mother and be a caring dad. It's unfortunate, but you have to play to the legal system...make yourself look as good as possible.

I exposed the affair to friends, family, and the church where she is employed. That's what everyone says to do, right??! Well, it didn't do a thing. She got really mad at me...I expected that. But nothing has changed one bit. But at least I know I did all I could. I was worried that I would look like a vindictive husband. I figured it would look bad for me in court. But the thing is, what you're exposing is the truth. You aren't slandering anybody because you're stating a fact. So she can't turn that around on you- you shouldn't worry about that.

This got pretty long- sorry. But I want you to know I understand your dilemma. Just stand firm and do what you KNOW is right- no matter how difficult. Take care of your child first (legally and morally). As for telling him about the affair, I don't think you need to go into detail. That's not always appropriate for a young child. Just say mommy is in a bad relationship that God isn't happy about. Something along those lines. I KNOW PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE WITH ME, BUT OH WELL.

Protect your finances and make it clear to her what you expect. She'll call you a jerk and every other name in the book, but deep inside, she'll know you're right. Whether she comes back or not, you can be confident you stood up for yourself and your child. Praying for you, brother. It will get even harder, but God will walk you through.
I forgot to mention-
Because the custody hearing hasn't happened yet, I'm forced to share my kids for half the week. They stay with her for 3 days, then 4 with me. I HATE IT! It's not right being forced into the part-time dad role. But if it has to happen for a while, just suck it up and pray with confidence that God will be your judge and jury!
"Mommy is dating a man and Mommy's are supposed to only date the Daddy, no one else. I am hurting a lot and trying to get Mommy to stop. Be sure that I will be strong for you and you can lean on me. This is tough stuff. You and I can talk about it" (hug to them)

I told my 9 year old this with genders reversed (my two older ones heard a slightly different version of basically the same) and it has served them well in this mess.
Mattyhild,

Good on you for your steps. There is nothing you�ve said that contradicts what we advise here. Exposure is effective more often than not, but it is also very dependent on how deeply entrenched the affair is. If it�s just starting, it usually kills it. If it�s deep and has lasted years, then it usually doesn�t, though conducting it is harder.

It also depends on the family dynamics. If the family is full of enablers, then it is easier to continue. If there is a good relationship with the in laws, then that helps. If there is a deep religious conviction against adultery, that helps.

Exposure is no guarantee. The only guarantee is that not exposing is enabling.

Filing first for custody if a big deal. It helps and is likely to be one of the things that will help wake a WW up. Mortarman is a very good example of a man who fought for custody and followed the given advice and had is WW wake up when it was clear that the WW would lose custody of the kids.

A 4 days on, 3 off schedule is fantastic for a dad. You�re in a good position. It sucks at first, but you eventually adjust to the days you don�t have the kids.

But �rudeness� is the wrong word to use here. We�re not rude or intend to be rude in getting a BS to wake up. We�re trying to wake up the BS. Footsies isn�t going to cut it.

This is a full on marital emergency and soft words full of rainbows and bunnies aren�t going to work to get a BS to act.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
And I hear the logic, but I know my wife, as well as the estranged nature of the in-laws, they barely and rarely talk, and there is no credence given when they do speak.

So, reality is....."the field of right people" is few and the best hope she's already and on ongoingly is rejecting her input.

The truth is, you need to expose far and wide. One of the simple reasons is you just really don't know who will get through to her.

CV
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
This is a full on marital emergency and soft words full of rainbows and bunnies aren�t going to work to get a BS to act.

We project that sense of urgency because we've been there before and recognize when time is being lost due to fear.

DD- I hope that you get things moving here. By doing nothing, you're headed for a divorce and, essentially, are letting this woman and her boyfriend dictate how much time you are going to spend with your kids. Do whatever you can to prevent that, ok?
You work the plans as the guidelines of marriagebuilder outline them.
Each betrayed one works them as close to perfection as they can, lining stuff up as promptly and concisely in their favor that they can and then, they get down and get to work and keep that narrow oppurtunity on the path to go onward.
Do not believe that you know how the circle of exposure will react or what power it will have.
I exposed to a bartender who, turns out, did a major amount of exposure reaction to my WH. I exposed by chance to her (mostly to inquire if WH ever took OP to her bar) and never would have guessed what the bartender would later do. Give him a talking to. More than any other exposure target did. His bartender! The person he used to serve him an escape from his guilt (bourbon on the rocks).

lol
Agree, the person who in my case put an end to things were not WH family, who are full of enablers, but a person who'd I never met in my life, somebody I exposed to by ACCIDENT!
Originally Posted by mattyhild
I exposed the affair to friends, family, and the church where she is employed. That's what everyone says to do, right??! Well, it didn't do a thing.

You know what I think is not cool? That when telling this poster that exposure did not work for you...that you left out the fact that this was your WW's third affair and she had already left the home when you finally exposed.

It also sounds like she knew that you were going to expose and had started spinning her story to people before you exposed.

These are critical facts, matty, and actual highlight the importance of exposing before the WS gets too entrenched in the wayward mindset and also before they leave the home. Not that exposure doesn't work.

Had you Found MB on the first affair and done a proper exposure, the outcome probably would have been different.


Right, waiting to expose will diminish it's effectiveness.
Originally Posted by mattyhild
As for telling him about the affair, I don't think you need to go into detail. That's not always appropriate for a young child. Just say mommy is in a bad relationship that God isn't happy about. Something along those lines. I KNOW PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE WITH ME, BUT OH WELL.

People will disagree with you because that is bad advice that will only lead to confusion. Saying "mommy is in a bad relationship" means nothing to a child and only adds to the confusion. As a parent, it is YOUR JOB to teach your child right from wrong and give them moral guidance. Not doing so is gross dereliction of duty. Children 4 and above know right from wrong and do understand the concept of adultery. Often they have been introduced to the adultery partner and are very confused because they SENSE something is wrong. So when you use weasel words to describe adultery, it just adds to the confusion.

As far as exposure "not working" in your case, no one has ever said it is a 100% guarantee. No one has ever told him there is a 100% guarantee of the affair dying if you expose. Oh no. But what we do know is that of all the recovered marriages on this board, EXPOSURE SAVED THEIR MARRIAGES. It killed my H's affair the day it was exposed. And we do know that if he doesn't expose, he will lose his marriage to an affair.

Exposure is the most potent WEAPON against affairs and as Dr Harley, clinical psychologist who SPECIALIZES in saving marriages from infidelity says:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.

It is very likely that this man's marriage can be saved by exposing this affair and you should encourage him to do so.
SusieQ-

Guess you didn't know my whole story:

Yes, I should've exposed the 1st affair after she came clean.

The second affair, she immediately stopped when I confronted her (and yes...we still did tell EVERYBODY...so it was exposed even though it stopped).

This current situation...she had already left the house before I even knew she was in an affair! I discovered it 4 months after she left and exposed within a week. So I did the best with what I had.

I was simply saying to DD that you never know the outcome once you expose. It could end it that day or it could be useless. But either way, it's the right thing to do.
Originally Posted by mattyhild
I also have young children. My wife left the house 5 months ago and hasn't returned.

By the time it gets this bad, the marriage is probably over and exposure will be of minimal help. In these radio clips, Dr Harley speaks to betrayed husbands who waited so long to expose that they "greatly diminished" their chances of recovery and LOST their wives. Had they exposed EARLY or "IMMEDIATELY" as Dr Harley advises, they might have had a chance.

The longer you WAIT, the less effective exposure is.

So, do you understand now why these posters have a sense of urgency?

Interesting call from a BH who did nothing to save his marriage and has greatly diminished his chances of recovery Part 1 Part 11

In this clip, Ron's wife is leaving him after he covered up her affair for a YEAR, Dr Harley tells him it is hard to save a marriage when you are an "ENABLER" click here
Originally Posted by mattyhild
I was simply saying to DD that you never know the outcome once you expose. It could end it that day or it could be useless. But either way, it's the right thing to do.

We do know that the longer a person waits, the less effective it is. In your case, the first affair was never exposed, leading to another affair, and nothing ever done to recover the marriage. In your situation, there was practically a guarantee that she would have another affair. Your wife is a serial cheater in a marriage that NEVER recovered. So it unrealistic to expect that your marriage had much of a chance to begin with.

If I were to estimate it, I would say that exposure kills about 50% of affairs, and the vast majority of those are in marriages where it is exposed VERY SOON while the couple is still living together.

Thank you very much for sharing your perspective, Mattyhild.

Sorry for your circumstances, but I appreciate the length and clarity of your message.

You clearly summarized how I was feeling.
And AGAIN...looks like I have to explain to MelodyLane now...

I DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WHEN SHE LEFT THE HOUSE. I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL 4 MONTHS LATER.

ALSO- I DID NOTHING?!?!!! SERIOUSLY?? I EXPOSED TO EVERYBODY (WITHIN A WEEK AFTER FINDING OUT), CHANGED THE LOCKS, FILED FOR CUSTODY AND DIVORCE, PACKED HER STUFF.... what else do you want from me? I didn't cover anything up!

Seems like 90% of the people on here just want to tear the others to shreds. This is the most painful thing anyone could ever go through, yet hardly anyone speaks with COMPASSION. It's so much easier to give directions when it's not your wife or husband (regardless if you've been throught his or not). Dr Harley this, Dr Harley that...enough with that guy. Yes, his research is solid but he says himself that not every single situation will end up the same- even if we follow those steps!

This post is about DD and his family. Not me. I was simply showing him support and giving him a few pointers because my situation with the children is similar. I'm not telling him to sit around and wait. I'm giving him steps to start acting. But I thought it would be easier for him to take if it was worded with more love than the previous posts.
You're welcome, DD. I'll be getting off this thread now. It seems to be going nowhere. But if you need anything, send me a message. You, your wife, and child are in my prayers. It's hard, but stay confident and unwavering. He'll walk you through the fire.
Originally Posted by mattyhild
And AGAIN...looks like I have to explain to MelodyLane now...

I DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WHEN SHE LEFT THE HOUSE. I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL 4 MONTHS LATER.

ALSO- I DID NOTHING?!?!!! SERIOUSLY?? I EXPOSED TO EVERYBODY (WITHIN A WEEK AFTER FINDING OUT), CHANGED THE LOCKS, FILED FOR CUSTODY AND DIVORCE, PACKED HER STUFF.... what else do you want from me? I didn't cover anything up!

Because your marriage never recovered from the FIRST AFFAIR, your wife became a serial CHEATER. To imagine that exposure can magically change a serial cheater is a silly expectation because the problem is not ONE affair, but a way of life. Exposure can't possibly change a person's way of life, that takes a radical committment to a behavior change.

Do you understand? So even if - and this is a BIG IF - exposure killed ONE affair with a serial cheater, it would not change her lifestyle that is the problem..

So coming on here telling DD that exposure "didn't work" for you is to make a false comparison because his wife is not a serial cheater.

Quote
Seems like 90% of the people on here just want to tear the others to shreds. This is the most painful thing anyone could ever go through, yet hardly anyone speaks with COMPASSION. It's so much easier to give directions when it's not your wife or husband (regardless if you've been throught his or not). Dr Harley this, Dr Harley that...enough with that guy. Yes, his research is solid but he says himself that not every single situation will end up the same- even if we follow those steps!

You need to get off this guys thread and stop disrupting it. We are here to discuss Dr Harley's principles, not yours. You know how to wreck a marriage. This guy needs help saving his.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2486981

When Should An Affair Be Exposed?
By Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.
10.28.09

"Some feel that an affair should not be exposed to children. Granted, I would not tell a 3-year old about an affair,....But I would not hesitate to reveal an affair to a child 7 years or older.

Exposure to those between those ages should be a matter of discretion."

I took the advice and read around the postings, and discovered
Dr. Harley says, 3-7 = matter of discretion.

Point being, just because someone disagrees, doesn't make them or the other persons opinion wrong.

Just different.
Originally Posted by mattyhild
Dr Harley this, Dr Harley that...enough with that guy.
Okay ... so why are you still here?
Originally Posted by mattyhild
And AGAIN...looks like I have to explain to MelodyLane now...

I DID NOT KNOW SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WHEN SHE LEFT THE HOUSE. I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL 4 MONTHS LATER.

ALSO- I DID NOTHING?!?!!! SERIOUSLY?? I EXPOSED TO EVERYBODY (WITHIN A WEEK AFTER FINDING OUT), CHANGED THE LOCKS, FILED FOR CUSTODY AND DIVORCE, PACKED HER STUFF.... what else do you want from me? I didn't cover anything up!

Friend, must you shout? And must you disrupt the conversations of others to talk about yourself?
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Point being, just because someone disagrees, doesn't make them or the other persons opinion wrong.

Sure it does. Some opinions are wrong. Some are stupid. All opinions are not right. As far as opinions go, we are here to learn about DR HARLEY'S opinions. We already know how to screw up our marriages, after all.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Point being, just because someone disagrees, doesn't make them or the other persons opinion wrong.

Sure it does. Some opinions are wrong. Some are stupid. All opinions are not right. As far as opinions go, we are here to learn about DR HARLEY'S opinions. We already know how to screw up our marriages, after all.

Hahaha! I get to correct mel! Actually, opinions are rarely based on facts. What we are discussing is not Dr. Harley's opinions, but proven techniques and methods that he has employed!

Ok.. butting out now... stickout
Quote
Yes, I should've exposed the 1st affair after she came clean.

The second affair, she immediately stopped when I confronted her (and yes...we still did tell EVERYBODY...so it was exposed even though it stopped).

This current situation...she had already left the house before I even knew she was in an affair! I discovered it 4 months after she left and exposed within a week. So I did the best with what I had.
I think it's important to note that you did not find Marriage Builders until a month ago. Your wife has been through 3 affairs and has been wayward for more than FIVE YEARS. Regardless of whether the affairs ended or not, you were in a crippled marriage for over five years.

I'm sorry you got here so late, but I don't recall anyone being rude or criticizing you for continuing to limp along in a marriage that was fractured by an unremorseful wayward wife. You got top notch advice as well. Unfortunately, it hasn't helped save your M so far. There are NO guarantees. But there is a legion of posters here who will agree that exposure is absolutely critical if an affair is to end. And there is another legion, most who are no longer here, who chose not to expose. They're no longer here because their marriage ended.

DD may have gotten here in time. But our advice to him will be the same advice we gave you. Hopefully it will help.
To get things back on track....In defense of the original poster, he brings up a very valid question on how to execute plan B and not taken for a ride in the divorce settlement. Given those parameters, here is what I would advise.

1. DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR EXWW. She can't "just" up the kids and move. You have every legal right as she does. WIth a married couple, absent any type of court order concerning custody, neither parent is "default". On father's right's sites, this is called "Radio Silence". It will keep you from chasing your tail and jumping at everything she says. Likewise, don't tell her what you are going to do.

2. Get a new lawyer. You have a paper pusher lawyer who takes the path of least resistance. Telling dad he has no shot is the tell tale sign of this.

3. PROTECT YOURSELF. Filing DV charges is in the first chapter of the WW handbook.
3a. Always have a digital voice recorder on you when you are near exWW. Go ahead and tell her you have it. If she threatens and yells, let her. Keep recording. If she knows you are recording, she can't get you in trouble for recording. Fortunately I have very few face to face interactions with exWW. When I do, I always wear a shirt with a breast pocket and put the recorder in the pocket.

3b. Never block her egress out of the room. If the two of you are in a room together, make sure she is closer to the door.

3c. Don't argue or raise your voice. If she gets mad, tell her "I am leaving the room, I do not want to argue with you." Most WW's will go nutz at this. She will probably follow you and call you names. Let her. Don't respond, walk away. Her yelling at you while you are CCC will be go over like a lead balloon if you go before a judge.

4. If she signs a lease and is getting ready to move out, file a custody petition, and tell her you want to set up a temporary parenting plan prior to her moving out. Make sure this is via email or some other traceable method. Be reasonable. If she moves within the school district, throw out a week on, week off arrangement as your offer.

4. If she does move out without an agreement, immediately file an ex parte custody petition. Ask for the children to be returned to the maritial home as well as supervised visitation for her. Your story to the judge would be this: "your honor, when she told me she was moving I sent over this custody plan (plan showing 50/50, email receipt from her). She did not want to negotiate and just upped and moved. My offer was very reasonable and it ensures the children are involved in both parent's lives as it is clear they love both of us very much"

So far, she is banking on the fact that you will continue to be her doormat and will do what she says. Time to get inside her decision loop and have her react to your moves.
PSUB is the Jedi Master of BH's here who knows how to deal with an insane WW that tried (and still does) every trick in the book against him to include false allegations.

Listen carefully and follow his advice.

PSUB is not with his WXW, but he sees his kids regularly.

I didn't save my marriage (I never followed the advice given here), but I see my kids regularly.

Protect yourself and protect your rights. Start with exposure and be ready for war.
Originally Posted by PSUBIKER
2. Get a new lawyer. You have a paper pusher lawyer who takes the path of least resistance. Telling dad he has no shot is the tell tale sign of this.

Amen to this! Thanks for the post, PSU. smile
Originally Posted by mattyhild
I was simply saying to DD that you never know the outcome once you expose. It could end it that day or it could be useless.

Obviously, there are no guarantees that exposure will kill the affair 100% of the time. I think any reasonable person would know that.

But the point is that exposure is a powerful tool (we see it end affairs weekly here on the forum) and that the alternative, that the affair will end on its own and the chances of recovery even if it does end on its own, are slim to none without it. This has been proven on the board again and again and that has been Dr Harley's experience.

You are a new poster, and while I don't think you meant to mislead DD, I just would caution you against emphatically stating that exposure "didn't do a thing" to any newly BH who is scared to upset his WW here without giving them a better picture of why it didn't work for you.
Originally Posted by mattyhild
I was simply saying to DD that you never know the outcome once you expose. It could end it that day or it could be useless.

And btw, even if exposure doesn't end the affair immediately, this is what Dr Harley says about it:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage

Link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html
DD,

What about the OMW? Are you going to tell her?

If so, when? If not, why not?
Yes. I plan to tell OMW.

And while thinking about it,
When I do, I want to see what her response is, because I don't
think that I have the right to take the decision away from her whether to tell family.

If she doesn't know, she will be devastated, and how much worse it would be having to deal with family knowing too at least initially.

How, she decides to handle the information is and should be her choice.
Quote
If so, when?

How much longer is this poor woman going to be kept in the dark?
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Yes. I plan to tell OMW.

And while thinking about it,
When I do, I want to see what her response is, because I don't
think that I have the right to take the decision away from her whether to tell family.

If she doesn't know, she will be devastated, and how much worse it would be having to deal with family knowing too at least initially.

How, she decides to handle the information is and should be her choice.
What she does with the information is immaterial to you. Watching her response is not necessary. You're not taking anything away from her by any of your methods of delivering the news to her.

How she deals with the revelation of her husband's infidelity is not up to you! Are you trying to blow off exposure by speculating over how OM's W will accept your information?? REALLY?

When are you going to tell this poor woman that you've sat back and allowed her husband to screw your wife for the past year, and just now you've kinda sorta thought that she and their baby might be affected? When do you suppose you can fit that into your schedule?

And YES. I am being harsh with you. As a former betrayed wife whose husband was in an affair with a woman whose husband KNEW FOR MONTHS about the affair and was too much of a pansy to take back his LIFE.

Until he exposed. FINALLY.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I don't think that I have the right to take the decision away from her whether to tell family.

How, she decides to handle the information is and should be her choice.

What she does with the information is immaterial to you.
Watching her response is not necessary.

You're not taking anything away from her by any of your methods of delivering the news to her.

How she deals with the revelation of her husband's infidelity is not up to you!

Are you trying to blow off exposure by speculating over how OM's W will accept your information?? REALLY?

When are you going to tell this poor woman that you've sat back and allowed her husband to screw your wife for the past year, and just now you've kinda sorta thought that she and their baby might be affected?

When do you suppose you can fit that into your schedule?

And YES. I am being harsh with you.

You're right, It's not up to me...that's my point...

....my point is, it's a matter of who are you or I to be the one to take away OMW's choice of how to handle the information by summarily deciding it's o.k. to inform family members regardless of what she wants ?

"Are you trying to blow off exposure. . ." - No, excercising empathy for another BS feelings.

"When are you going to tell this poor woman that you've sat back (A.) and allowed (B.) . . . " - A. I just found out she exists. B. I had/have no control over the repugnant behavior of either the OM or my spouse. (Their choices to Start, Continue, or Stop)


I get the impression from the comments, and correct me if I'm wrong, an implication that giving consideration to the OMW's feelings is irrelevant...it's perfectly acceptable to "drop the bomb" in the lap of the OMW while at the same time telling every family member that can be found ....resulting in the OMW not only having to deal with the news of infidelity but also "everyone" else knowing too.


My thought and question, which I was hoping to get feedback on was;

Has anyone exposed to only the OMW, along with the WW's family and friends with any success ?
I understand the intent of exposing for the purpose of embarassing the OM/OW.

I'm talking about having empathy for the OMW or OWH.
DD,

One of the reasons I doubted the effectiveness of exposure was becasue the OM did NOT have a wife or kids...I felt it would be ineffective without this ally, so to speak.

So, I could only expose to his employer and union (employer fired him from job within 2 hours of receiving exposure letter)...which, subsequently meant all of his coworkers on the jobsite, a crew of @ 20, all now knew he was canned for fooling around w/ a married woman on the job (which they prpbably already knew anyway).

I also exposed to his mommy, 2 sisters, and a brother. That's all I had on OMs side....no FB, no church information, etc.

I think going after him, his job, and his mommy did the trick on his end...totally unexpected by people trying to keep a secret. If the realtionship was so great, why didn't they announce it to the world? Why did my W refuse to be introduced to any of his family/friends? Why wasn't my W introducing OM to her parents, the kids?

This was only the first salvo I was firing, and maybe he thought I was too crazy or my W wasn't worth all of this to continue.

I believe this killed the affair.
And to set the record straight...(because you don't know)

I did attempt to identify the OM and find out his marital status,
and after no success on my own, I contacted a couple of PI's who, like I said told me "it's impossible from only a name, to determine a persons marital status".

I focused my energies on implementing Plan A (along with identifying and attempting to address the 50% of responsibility I owned for the deterioration of our marriage that contributed to the current circumstances)......with no success, actually worsening the contempt, disrespect and uncaring and selfish behavior of WW.

And that's how I got to looking for a way to implement Plan B while not losing my child or spouse to a separation/divorce.




Plan A only works with the carrot AND the stick.

Believe me, please...I tried the "carrot-only" version for 4 months.

The affair/contact continued.

Then, I manned up, trying to be the hero for my marriage, my family (what, really, do you have to lose?), and applied the stick.

The affair/contact ended.

Expose.
Yes, I did the minimal exposure in the beginning, just like matty, and just like with him it was useless.

Not until I got to real work really including the OW side did it work.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I understand the intent of exposing for the purpose of embarassing the OM/OW.

I'm talking about having empathy for the OMW or OWH.

That is NOT the purpose of exposure.

read here.

Cv
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I understand the intent of exposing for the purpose of embarassing the OM/OW.

I'm talking about having empathy for the OMW or OWH.

That is NOT the purpose of exposure.

read here.

Cv

You have his name, can u get his address? visit him in person. You can find it through the courthouse... public records.

Dude, seriously, you�re driving me crazy. Why not perform a study on the economic impact on international trade of exposing before you decide to expose?

So you have OM screwing your wife and you want to conduct studies on how exposure will impact the mating habits of ants.

Grow a pair and just do it. Paralysis through analysis is not going to get you anywhere.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
My thought and question, which I was hoping to get feedback on was;

Has anyone exposed to only the OMW, along with the WW's family and friends with any success ?


Question, Clarification:
Exposure Plan Elements:
OMW
WW family and friends.

Anyone done this ? Results ?

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I get the impression from the comments, and correct me if I'm wrong, an implication that giving consideration to the OMW's feelings is irrelevant...it's perfectly acceptable to "drop the bomb" in the lap of the OMW while at the same time telling every family member that can be found ....resulting in the OMW not only having to deal with the news of infidelity but also "everyone" else knowing too.

Those that hear of OM's wanderings won't be harsh with his wife. To the contrary, they'll probably be sympathetic to her.

I don't get the hesitation here, and by exposing to all of his family/friends you may actually be helping *their* marriage if his wife is otherwise inclined to keep silent about it.

Helping their marriage helps yours.

Look, she probably already suspects something. It probably won't be a newsflash but, crap, wouldn't YOU want to know?

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Has anyone exposed to only the OMW, along with the WW's family and friends with any success ?

Yes, I exposed to OM's side and my FWW's side.

I called OM's wife at work because it was the only number I had. She called me back and I later had my FWW apologize to her. I also sent individual letters to his sister, father, mother, boss and every co-worker.

You may never know what the response was to your exposure on his side. But you've got to take that shot.

My FWW's family went apesh*t on her and were instrumental in turning things around. Her talking to OM's W was also a big turning point as it made OMW human, and not some abstract "bad guy" that had been portrayed by OM.



Are you reading? Let me recap:

FAR & WIDE = lot of impact = end of fantasy The more anger, the better your job was at busting up the affair. YOUR MARRIAGE HAS A CHANCE

MINIMAL EXPOSURE = less pressure, a little anger, little help, the affair has much more of a chance to continue with you as the source of their anger, you will be seen as vindictive loser.

Mel has given you all the tools, the longer you wait, the less successful you'll be. It is all your choice.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
My thought and question, which I was hoping to get feedback on was;

Has anyone exposed to only the OMW, along with the WW's family and friends with any success ?


Question, Clarification:
Exposure Plan Elements:
OMW
WW family and friends.

Anyone done this ? Results ?

You left out the OM's family, which is probably one of the most effective exposures. You need to cause as much conflict as possible in the OM's life in order to run him off and that is how you do it. I told you that. Exposing to the OM's family also ruins any future fantasies of a marriage between your wife and the OM. If his family knows this is a sleazy affair with a married woman they are unlikely to ever welcome her in their home. Your wife will lose all hope if she knows that they know she is an OW.

Do it right and do it big. This nonsense about being "sensitive" to the OMW is just that, nonsense. Your misapplied "sensitivity" only waters down one of the best tools you have to save 2 marriages. Why in the world would you do that? You are doing this for your child's FAMILY. And you want to water down your best weapon because of "sensitivity?" That is just plain bad judgment. Don't push the car up the hill with the parking brake on, take it off!! Your marriage and your child's family depends on it. This is too serious to do a half assed job.

You have every right to contact the OM's parents and raise holy hell in his life. Their son is screwing your wife and wrecking your marriage. You need their help. The OMW benefits from your exposure to the OM's family just as much as you do, so it makes no sense to act like it you would be harming her. You aren't.

If you are going to do this, don't do it half assed. Expose to the OM's family and friends. Causing as much conflict as possible in the OM's life is crucial to the success or failure of your exposure.

I don't believe any longer that you are serious about this and are just wasting the valuable time of board members now. It has now been 6 days an you are no closer to a plan than you were on the first day. Asking a question a day [that has already been answered] to drag things out is a waste of our time and yours.

I would add that the longer you wait, the less effective your exposure will be. As time passes, the affair becomes more and more entrenched.

Here's why exposing to the OM's wife has a very good chance to succeed.

1. If she is a stay at home mother and has been for 10 years, OM may be looking down the barrell at a hefty alimony settlement

2. Good luck to OM to negotiate a decent custody settlement. He will be looking down the barrel of the Every Other Weekend Daddy sc$%&job custody agreement with the back breaking child support associated with it.

3. If his motivation for the affair is for some cheap thrills, exposing to his wife will go a long way towards convincing him that giving his possibly ex wife 30% of his gross monthly income for many years is a steep price of admission.

The financial ramifications of divorce are often enough to scare a man into working on his marriage. Use it to your advantage. Exposing to his wife is the best way to leverage this.
Think of it this way, there is not much that is more impactful than a phone call from a betrayed husband reporting that one's son is screwing around with his wife. That is a very serious thing that often propels a parent into action.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Think of it this way, there is not much that is more impactful than a phone call from a betrayed husband reporting that one's son is screwing around with his wife. That is a very serious thing that often propels a parent into action.
Yes, ma'm. If I got a phone call from some man who said my son was screwing around with his wife I would be on the horn so fast with my son he wouldn't know what hit him.
DD,

STOP being ME!!!

Expose -- you have a powerful weapon I did not have -- OMW!!!

I exposed to:

WWs aunt, uncle
our children
2 close coworkers

OMs mom, sisters, brother
employer
union hall


No friends, no facebook, no pastor, not even Ws parents (been estranged for years)...and just that exposure worked!

I wish there was an OMW to have exposed to, becasue that would've been a ace in the hole.

Stop waffling. make the list. Then make the calls/send the letters.

Watch as the affair will end, maybe not immediately, but it will end sooner than later.

Expose now. Don't make the mistakes I did.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Think of it this way, there is not much that is more impactful than a phone call from a betrayed husband reporting that one's son is screwing around with his wife. That is a very serious thing that often propels a parent into action.

I think that the way this poster has refused to be won over by melody and other great posters here is a redflag.

After all these posts and his stance has not wavered but he just finds new ways to hold his course redflag.

I don't ever remember a poster holding out here for so long or so strong redflag.

***edit***
Right now he's studying the impact of exposure on the papacy and it's possible impact on the Catholic Church and international relations. After that is complete he'll perform a study on whether or not UN approval is preferred in order to conduct exposure.

Everyone just needs to be patient until the studies are completed.
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
Right now he's studying the impact of exposure on the papacy and it's possible impact on the Catholic Church and international relations. After that is complete he'll perform a study on whether or not UN approval is preferred in order to conduct exposure.

Everyone just needs to be patient until the studies are completed.

rotflmao
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
Right now he's studying the impact of exposure on the papacy and it's possible impact on the Catholic Church and international relations. After that is complete he'll perform a study on whether or not UN approval is preferred in order to conduct exposure.

Everyone just needs to be patient until the studies are completed.

think There may be some forms to fill out as well. Might better check on that.


frown

I think we may have lost him, it is hard to gather up the courage. It is hard work to safe a marriage, it is. Divorce is always the easy way out.
DD, exposure will garner support for you in your quest to keep your family together. you will also feel immediate relief in terms of feeling like you're getting some control back.

once you expose, you get a sense of empowerment for taking action as opposed to languishing in impotent rage.

you have the advantage of this OM being married. do a kindness and let his wife know what's happening here so she can protect her own family. you are doing her a favor!

you might not want your wife back at this point but it's clear you want your child. exposure will help with this as everyone will know that she has caused the demise of your family.

get your legal info in order QUICKLY in case you need to move into a divorce/custody action but please expose asap! the longer you wait, the more time you WW has to tell everyone how awful the marriage is and how she can't wait to get out. she is throwing you under the bus as each second ticks by.

the truth shall set you (and everyone else involved) FREE.
Maybe it will help you to think of it this way:

WW and OM are dreamily planning their future together (as soon as they get those bothersome spouses out of the way!) OM says his family is going to LOVE WW. They never cared much for OMW.
She'll fit right in with his brothers. OM's parents will just love her!
They discuss how soon after the divorces should they introduce each other to the kids and family.
WW has already started to plant the seeds now - with her friends about how unhappy she is in the marriage.
WW thinks everyone will be very happy for her, after all, she suffered with DDad every day.
WW thinks that maybe after 3 or 4 months she can introduce OM to her child. They can do some fun things together and the kids will think its fine that mom is dating OM.




Exposure BLOWS this fantasy into OBLIVION.
Everyone knows that WW and OM weren't "suffering" or trying to make their marriages work -- they were involved in a sleazy affair. OM isn't a new boyfriend - he's the loser that interfered in a family. WW isn't the fun new girlfriend - she's the homewrecker. The kids don't LOVE OM, cuz they HATE him because they KNOW he is the reason mom left.
And if you convey the right message, you're the solid man who stood up for his family.
Thank you for this post, Lexxy.

As much as I laughed at the satiric wit of some of the responses on this thread (HTLD, you are a bad, bad boy rotflmao ) we need to remember the GOAL. DD, you need to EXPOSE. We've already outlined all the reasons to do so.

Yes, Road, I remember one poster who just about drove me crazy with his reluctance to expose (Hi Help for Dad! smile ) I probably 'swore off' HFD's thread about a dozen times, but always went back. Because I just KNEW he could save his marriage IF ONLY he would expose! He FINALLY did and subsequently saved his marriage (and I'm still waiting for my Medal of Patience, LOL). HFD has also been on this thread to encourage DD as a voice of someone who was also hesitant to expose.

I'm sure there are other posters who refused to expose. They're no longer on this site. I wonder what happened. They never came back to announce their successful recovery of their marriage... frown
Marital,

I owe you and so many others on this board much, much more than just a medal.

The only way I can only scratch the surface of payback is to encourage others to read my thread as an example of why NOT to wait and why TO EXPOSE.

Looking back, I couldn't guarantee that exposure would save the marriage, but I can guarantee it can't be saved without it.

I hope someday to 'make up' in recovery the 3 months I waited to expose an could've been further along...

I hope I'm doing alright by you and the other vets in trying to help others and make up for my frustrating all of you so much...I'm sorry I was so reluctant, and so grateful none of you gave up on me (us).

Thanks.

DD...I did it, so can you (and you must).
Quote
I hope I'm doing alright by you and the other vets in trying to help others and make up for my frustrating all of you so much...I'm sorry I was so reluctant, and so grateful none of you gave up on me (us).
Dad, you're a vet now, too. Thank you for paying it forward. That's my Medal. smile
Thanks, Marital blush
Originally Posted by helpfordad
Thanks, Marital blush
You're very welcome, friend. smile
HFD, perhaps you should link your thread here.
Spouse, last night said "I want a divorce", after I asked her when are you going to stop doing what you're doing.....as she was leaving to "go out".
She insisted, I'm not. I said, then you need leave, and file.
She said fine, I'll start mediation process.

Really rough night and day.

Consulting with a counsel tomorrow . After which, I'll know the ramifications exposing and what not to say.

Risk aversness is just part of me.


DevotedDad,
She is leaving you, when are you going to wake up your only chance is to break up the affair, exposure will do that for you......It is hard no one wants to do that to someone they loved, do you thinks she loves you right now.......
What do you have to lose, she isn't yours now anyway.......
Expose get your ducks in a row financially and with your child and then sit back and watch her fantasy world fall apart like it should.
When you go see that counsel I want you to explain the purpose of exposure to break up the affair so you can work to save your marriage......you cannot do that with the OM in the picture.....
What do you have to lose at this point, she isn't yours now if you want her back you are going to have to fight for her and your family.
Just keep saying you love her and will do what you need to do to save your marriage and family...
The all spew the divorce line when they are seeing someone else, my husband did that too.....
part of the script, don't let that bother you, don't let it get you down, fight get up and fight for your marriage........
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
She said fine, I'll start mediation process.

She's pissed because you are challenging her. You see that, right?

If your money is still in a joint account, I'd yank it unless you want to share in paying for her attorney.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Risk aversness is just part of me.

And how's that working for you so far? Seriously.

Telling the truth isn't wrong, you know.



Setup a seperate account too, today.

Today has been a blur.

I know she checked out long ago....and views OM as the antithesis of all that she viewed wrong with me.

And I realize, at this point I've got next to nothing to lose.......

I get the impression, she percieves "mediation" as a quick cheap and easy way to "move on" with her fantasy, as others have pointed out without any risk of negative impact from her immoral behavior being considered in terms of custody or alimony.

I also suspect, "her plan" is being fed by OM.....because she was confident that " my son goes with me, I'm the primary caregiver", and "you can't force me to leave" accusing me of "thinking she was stupid"....something I have never said.

I know, it's likely to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

And I know you're right, JT...
" she isn't yours now if you want her back you are going to have to fight for her and your family."

DD,

I too was slow to expose. It works. It will kill the fun of the fantasy when they have to explain their actions.

Man up or stop complaining.

Next time you see your WW, just tell her your OK with her sleeping with who ever she wants. That's what you're doing now!!

The Truth Shall Set You Free!!!!
DD,

I hope you understand that we�re rooting for you and want you to succeed. The problem is that you are indeed risk averse.

I�m a former Air Force pilot. I know all about risk mitigation. I can tell you that there is NO risk at all in exposing.

A lawyer will approach this from a different angle. A lawyer will not recommend to you that you tell anyone anything. A lawyer assumes the worst.

We�re telling you that there is NO risk in exposing. We�ve walked the walk.

The only risk you are taking is in not exposing, which will guarantee a divorce.

You�re already heading down that path, assuming she�s not bluffing, which she likely is.

Exposure will kill this affair. Just read some other threads if you don�t believe us.

If it doesn�t kill the affair it will certainly make it tougher to conduct.

But exposure rarely works if it�s not done soon after discovery of the affair. Once she�s gone and out of the house and one he�s gone and out of his house, then the affairees simply become more entrenched in their affair and fantasy and they�ll have common boogey men to demonize.

Your best move, if divorce is indeed inevitable, is to file first, request sole physical and legal custody, and inform your family that you�re getting divorced because your wife is having an affair.

This gives you all the legal advantages and puts you in control of the pacing of proceedings. Your goal is to drag things out as much as possible and make the process as painful as possible.

But I�m about to give up on you. You�re basically laying down and surrendering.
Actually, he is not risk averse, but conflict averse. He is afraid of conflict. By avoiding conflict he INVITES more risk due to his inaction. So it can't be said you are "risk averse," because your lack of action invites risk. You are a conflict avoider.

The greatest risk is in not exposing because keeping it a secret enables the affair to thrive. So, no he is not risk averse at all. His current path of inaction invites the greatest risk.
I want to chime in an repeat what the previous reply said.

There is NO risk in exposing.

The venom the wayward will shoot at you will hurt to hear and you will have your heart do a few flips flops while you listen to the venom BUT

the wayward and other person will not REALLY file suit against you. They WILL threaten to do so to scare you. Don't be afraid.

Even if they actually did file a suit (and they won't) you can simply say you were attempting to get support from the various folks to save your family. Matter of fact.

They will not really file a suit though. Bluster. Scary bluster.
DD --

I just want to scream at you! I WAS A WAYWARD WIFE -- I KNOW THAT SHE IS PLANNING ON REPLACING YOU WITH OM.

She's following the playbook:
1. she told OM her marriage was horrible, so she MADE the marriage horrible.
2. after a suitable amount of bickering time, present the BH with the divorce scenario -- or wait until pushed by OM or BH.
3. get rid of said husband by moving out or moving him out.
4. at that point, consider yourself divorced and free to do what you want. Let everyone know the marriage is over.
5. follow through with divorce or seperation proceedings as pushed.
6. after suitable amount of time, start introducing OM as your new boyfriend.



Why oh why wont' you destroy that fantasy?

Its great FUN to introduce a new boyfriend (because of course everyone will think she met him AFTER your marriage fell apart)
Its HORRIBLE to introduce your CHEATING PARTNER. Why won't you "out" them so that fantasy is no longer possible?

What RISK do you think you are avoiding?

Divorce?

Ha.

And mediation? Just another way of saying "play nice while I destroy you."

Are you always such a pansy?
Quote
Yes. I plan to tell OMW.

And while thinking about it,
When I do, I want to see what her response is, because I don't
think that I have the right to take the decision away from her whether to tell family.

If she doesn't know, she will be devastated, and how much worse it would be having to deal with family knowing too at least initially.

How, she decides to handle the information is and should be her choice.

You want to talk about risk?

How about you and OM are at the polar opposite extremes of risk tolerance!

Look at the risks OM was willing to take? HE was WILLING to RISK everything for a few shots at your wife. He was perfectly willing to take the chance that everything would become public. He was willing to take the chance that some crazed husband would hunt him down. So why would you feel compelled to pussyfoot around his family?

But you? Your inaction just screams "I don't care". How insulting for your WW that you don't have the FIRE to fight for her. What a contrast for her.

Your whole situation just aggravates me!
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Question, Clarification:
Exposure Plan Elements:
OMW
WW family and friends.

Anyone done this ? Results ?

Mrs Wondering's OM was not married. No OMW.
However, Mr Wondering exposed his wife's affair to his mother in law .... who was instrumental in convincing Mrs Wondering to end her affair.

Exposure is not to embarrass the wayward. Although, they should be embarrassed!

Exposure is turning the light on in the room, so that bad behavior and immoral choices will be known to others. That can be very motivating.
...and neither was my W's OM....not married, no kids....nothing to lose, just another notch in his belt.

But, I exposed to OMs family, employer -- if the relationship was something to be proud of, why hide it, right? So, I exposed their little fantasy...Oms mom should be happy little sonny had a new girlfriend, right?

Not a chance.

They could only introduce each other to each other's family, children, parents, etc. now as 'the person I cheated with and helped me end my marriage'...NOT "my new boyfriend/girlfriend"...

Shed light on the affair, and it will die.

If she won't end her affair, you don't have a marriage anyway, really.

Expose.
oh, and here we are, not even a year later...out to dinner last night with W, who turns to me to say, again:

"I'm so sorry. I realize how much I damaged myself, and almost destroyed our family. Thank you for saving us. ILY, and I love this marriage. I love this marriage and I will care and protect it for all my days. I am blessed you gave me a second chance and that you are my husband."

My marriage does not exist, my family not intact today without exposure.

It works.
HFD was a regular receiver of 2x4s until he finally manned up. It saved his marriage.

Man up. Save yours.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
How do you go dark with a elementary age child in the house ?

Doesn't that create a toxic environment, given the already selfish, angry and vengeful personality of a cheating spouse ?

Whenever I notice that multiple really effective & knowledgable MBers cannot get traction with a BS concerning exposure, I go back and reread the first post and the thread title.

Quote
how to go dark (plan b) with a child in the house

He was (is ?) interested in "going dark" but not interested in turning on the light of exposure.
His idea was to allow the affair to continue while his WW lived under tha same roof.

DevotedDad has not wavered from this position.

My conclusion is, he is either living under a bridge (yes, I said it) ..... or he is too cowardly to make any bold affair-killing move.

He's rather hide in the dark than stand up and fight.


The great Oz has spoken.

DD,

I implore you -- expose.

There is no downside -- the worse thing your spouse can ever do to you has already been done.

There is a way to salvage your marriage and keep your family intact. MB is a plan to do that.

It begins with exposure, bringing light to the affair.

Please have faith, and take it from me -- somebody who hesitated -- that it can work.

I can't guarantee that it will work, but I can guarantee you won't have a marriage while there's a 3rd person involved.

Remove him through exposure.
Originally Posted by Pepperband
[
He'd rather hide in the dark than stand up and fight.

AGREE.

It's been clear to me for a while now that you will not be doing an exposure but this:

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Yes. I plan to tell OMW.


Originally Posted by SusieQ
Quote
If so, when?
How much longer is this poor woman going to be kept in the dark?

Third time asking and still waiting for an answer...
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
She said fine, I'll start mediation process.

Not really for you since you aren't following Dr Harley's advice but for the lurkers:

Do NOT go the mediation route with a wayward.
I went the mediation route. Know what it got me? Stabbed in the back a year later when she wanted to move away with her a new man and the kids.

You, my friend, are digging your own grave. YOU are doing this. I've warned you as a man who behaved exactly like you're behaving right now. I speak to you with the benefit of hindsight. You're blind to it because of your emotions.

Act. Expose. Get the legal hammer out.
Mediation with a wayward = negotiating with a terrorist
DD,

Did you expose? Your time of getting advice is running out....I know, I almost lost these people bc I wouldn't expose.

Do it... Come back and tell us you've done it.
Spouse appears to be moving along with her plan to mediate.

She asked me the other night, "Is it your intention to mediate with me ?"

I said, I don't have a choice if that's the path you are chosing to pursue, rather than stop your affair.

She replies, no....I mean are you going to get a lawyer ? Because, I want you to know that I don't intend to. <--as if her integrity and rationalness has magically reappeared

I told her, Yes I will have counsel.

She says, Why ? (The things that come out of her mouth, never cease to amaze me.)

I said to protect my riights and advice me of what's legally in my best interest.

She responds, "Your rights ?" With a tone of voice that indicated she was amazed that I thought I had any or that I was interested in protecting.

She was silent the rest of the night.

I WAS hesitant and reluctant to expose and wanting to keep my spouse in our home, because I thought it was beneficial to our child and increased the chance of reconciling moreso than being apart would.

But since she's intent on pursuing divorce and rip our child's life apart....even around the holidays.

I have nothing to lose by exposing OM, and It's becoming apparent that not exposing to spouses family though unlikely to be effective, will not avoid conflict assuming she maintains her current mindset in the future.
Spite and vengence will forever be in my future given she no longer cares about me. Took me a while to see it......but I'm at the point of accepting that she really views me as nothing.

Besides, it's not like she has any respect for me.......
Has this been exposed to OMW yet???
SQ, I discovered that OM is divorced. The data from peoplesmart.com is stale/ inaccurate.

But I still including OM ex in the list wither the other family members.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
SQ, I discovered that OM is divorced. The data from peoplesmart.com is stale/ inaccurate.

But I still including OM ex in the list wither the other family members.
Is she still refusing to end the affair? If I recall correctly, you were falling all over yourself to allow your WW to do whatever she wanted Has that changed? Have you told her to get out of your home?
The final thing, I asked her not to do....was pursue divorce over the holidays and ruin our last holiday season. And she ignored that request saying she intends to mediate during the week of Christmas.....nice huh ?, then she's "surprised" that I intend to seek counsel ?

Either the "fog" is really thick or she's just more uncaring than I ever imagined.

Intend to expose this weekend as a last ditch effort to inject reality into her distorted perception. I imagine I'll be having Thanksgiving alone. As she's even less likely to be willing to do anything like cooking.
Yes, I confronted her and asked if she was going to ever stop.

And she "didn't see that happening".

I told her if she chooses to continue on that path, she needed to leave while doing so, and file .

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
SQ, I discovered that OM is divorced. The data from peoplesmart.com is stale/ inaccurate.

But I still including OM ex in the list wither the other family members.

When did they get D'd?
She didn't appear to be doing anything for the past two weeks about mediation until the other night, when she asked, "Do you intend to mediate, with.me ?". Which I've read is the first thing asked by a mediator to determine the parties willingness / openness to mediation. I think she realized that she'd told me that was her intention without regard to my input. Either that or she looked at my call log and saw I have been calling lawyers.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
She didn't appear to be doing anything for the past two weeks about mediation until the other night, when she asked, "Do you intend to mediate, with.me ?". Which I've read is the first thing asked by a mediator to determine the parties willingness / openness to mediation. I think she realized that she'd told me that was her intention without regard to my input. Either that or she looked at my call log and saw I have been calling lawyers.
Lawyer up, DD. Make this incredibly painful for her financially. Give her a dose of reality.
2009-2010.

I also found domestic viloence charges filed with OM and Ex listed as parties, but couldn't determine who filed against whom. But I guess it doesn't matter because the charges were dispositioned 'dismissed', January of 2011.


Originally Posted by DevotedDad
She asked me the other night, "Is it your intention to mediate with me ?"

I said, I don't have a choice if that's the path you are chosing to pursue, rather than stop your affair.

She replies, no....I mean are you going to get a lawyer ? Because, I want you to know that I don't intend to. <--as if her integrity and rationalness has magically reappeared

I told her, Yes I will have counsel.

She says, Why ? (The things that come out of her mouth, never cease to amaze me.)

I said to protect my riights and advice me of what's legally in my best interest.

She responds, "Your rights ?" With a tone of voice that indicated she was amazed that I thought I had any or that I was interested in protecting.

She was silent the rest of the night.
Love that she was silent, hope she was thinking about the consequences of divorce. DD, your WW has not had any "stick" of Plan A. Glad to hear you are lawyering up. Let her know this will be a legal battle, and you will fight for your rights. Let her feel the consequences of adultery and divorce.

You also need to show WW you will fight for your marriage... and the best manoeuvre in that fight right now is to expose.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
2009-2010.

I also found domestic viloence charges filed with OM and Ex listed as parties, but couldn't determine who filed against whom. But I guess it doesn't matter because the charges were dispositioned 'dismissed', January of 2011.
That's good to know, DD, but the critical issues remain: Did you expose this affair to his ex? To your child? What have you been doing since you posted last - anything? Have you told her she's going to have to get out of the house if she wants to keep wallowing with this man? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
DD,

You need to let her know that you aren't playing into her games. If she wants a D, then she needs to do the work because you're not going to make it pleasant or easy.

You still haven't exposed, my friend, which is the most effective tool you have. She is playing the fantasy divorce with you. She thinks in her mind that you will go, mediated, get something on paper that sets her free, and things will all be lovely and amicable.

Then, once it's official, OM can come out into the open and you and her will be splendid friends and she will frolic in green fields with bunnies and rainbows around while the kids dance and you stare with a smile on your face at how happy she is with her new man.

Trust me, this is the fantasy in her mind.

So you need to expose because this is going nowhere.

If she brings up mediation again, let her know that she can't just call for mediation. It is something that is court ordered by a judge once papers have been filed.

Tell her that you aren't going to go anywhere without a court order.

Then ask her what she'd like for dinner or if she wants to bake cookies.

But you MUST expose if you are to have any chance of saving this marriage. The affair must be killed first.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
[quote]I would suggest you lock down your finances. I would clean out all of your joint checking & savings accounts. Leave just enough to keep the accounts open. Put the rest in an account that only you can access. Cancel credit cards that she can use. If there's a balance and you can't cancel them, direct the card issuer to suspend the card so it can't be used.

Lock down any retirement accounts so she can't pilfer them. Think of any other avenues she can use to get at family/marital money and lock them down.

This may sound drastic, DD, but we've had plenty of posters on here whose wayward went to the bank and cleaned out all the accounts in order to have money to support the affair.

After you have done this, inform her that you will not be financing her affair. She'll have to come up with the scratch to do that on her own.


Wayward Husband has done this to me. He moved out, filed for divorce, and I have all 5 of our children and zero finances to support them. It is a frightening situation to be in, he has complete control over my life financially. He chose the past month to not pay some of the bills and because he filed w/o entering interim support for me and the children and the court is plodding around I was told to hope for a January court date to address it by my lawyer, I'm screwed. He is ruining my credit and boosting his own right now. He comes and goes as he pleases because the court wouldn't allow me to restrict him to a scheduled visitation when he had placed a temporary restraining order against me on false charges at the advice of his lawyer to try and take the kids, it backfired on him because they awarded custody to me. OW and his family are lobbying for my ruin and it is utter hell. I wouldn't say destroy her financially by any means or prevent her from having any living expenses, but do protect yourself. I hadn't ever considered he would do something of that nature when I was in plan A still trying to win him back.
Quote
She says, Why ? (The things that come out of her mouth, never cease to amaze me.)

I said to protect my riights and advice me of what's legally in my best interest.

She responds, "Your rights ?" With a tone of voice that indicated she was amazed that I thought I had any or that I was interested in protecting.

She was silent the rest of the night.
My husband did this. He hired a lawyer, then tried to convince me that I don't need one, that I could use his lawyer. *cuckoo*
I am exposing after the holiday.

For selfish reasons, I don't want to ruin my child's memory, because she seems to intend to do that for the next one.
I've also recently found out that it appears OM divorce appears to have been at least in part due to his wife cheating.

Wondering if I should try contacting him before pulling the trigger on the nuclear option. Given my WS pension for lying, there's no telling what she's told him.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I've also recently found out that it appears OM divorce appears to have been at least in part due to his wife cheating.

Wondering if I should try contacting him before pulling the trigger on the nuclear option. Given my WS pension for lying, there's no telling what she's told him.

It wouldn't do any good. He knows she's married and he doesn't give a damn. If you call him to say anything, I'd wait until AFTER exposure and then raise hell with him over the phone.

There's no reason to be civil with him or expect him to do the "right" thing, in my opinion.

And just who told you that OMW was cheating?
Sad...at your own peril. I wish you would reconsider this.
"I am exposing after the holiday.

For selfish reasons, I don't want to ruin my child's memory, because she seems to intend to do that for the next one."

This makes me sad, and very frustrated. I don't get it. At all.
Holidays = leverage. When you put pressure on the wayward via exposure, and they start to see what's really at stake, they are more likely to turn. Holidays bring up the need for connection and family. What better time to expose to bring home the reality of all that she's about to lose?
Paternity suit public record, SQ.

??
Makes no sense...
Originally Posted by Surfer88
Makes no sense...


What makes no sense, 88 ?


SQ asked,
Originally Posted by SusieQ
And just who told you that OMW was cheating?

And the answer is:
Paternity suit public record. The public record lists one party = OMEX and the other party = Not OM.

I did draw a conclusion, but based on the preceding.
Gotcha.
DD,

GMJ just exposed and is having results and is killing the affair.

Waiting will do nothing and making her deal with the holidays alone has huge consequences.

But the reality is that your kid probably already senses something is up.

Seriously, I feel like you're going to give us another excuse for not exposing after the holiday.

Next time it will be: I'll wait till the New Year. I'll wait till after Valentine's Day. I'll wait till after Flag Day. I'll wait till after the Fourth of July. I'll wait till after labor day. I'll wait till the school year is out.

There is never a good time to expose. Just do it and quit being so afraid of it. It's the only way you will kill this thing.

Instead, now your WW has some holiday memory she'll be able to make with OM.

I'm can see it already, "OM. I love you so much. I'm so thankful on this day that you're in my life. I can't wait till we're together soon once I get rid of my idiot BH."

Wake up. Stop letting the affair get more entrenched.
It IS true that out of the 365 days in a year....many are special in some way.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I am exposing after the holiday.

For selfish reasons, I don't want to ruin my child's memory, because she seems to intend to do that for the next one.
The holidays can be the BEST time to reveal to your child the truth behind why her family's world has seemed upended. If you expose prior to the holidays, you will force your WW's hand. If she moves out she will miss the ENs she would get from holiday traditions of family interactions. It would be a very cold, very sad thing for her. Waywards don't like cold, sad things.

I appreciate that you are trying to protect your child, but in reality your inaction is placing her family security in jeopardy. Why would you jeopardize your child so she can open Christmas presents while mommy and daddy pretend to be happy? Don't you realize that she'll always have this Christmas to remember as when mommy and daddy PRETENDED to be happy? Do you think that will make her feel secure with you in the future? For her to know that you are willing to deceive her about her reality?

Regardless. DD, you have continued to strike me as someone who has no intention of using any plan except Plan DD. You are betting everything on the hope that your WW will suddenly wake up and mend her ways. That will probably not happen. Don't be a liar in your daughter's eyes when the truth does, indeed, come out.
I think I'm missing something here. I don't understand why people are delaying exposure. I exposed about two days after D Day. I couldn't WAIT to expose, to throw some water on the raging inferno of the affair. For me, anything was better than doing NOTHING. Exposure is the biggest weapon a BS has in fighting the affair, because it brings reality and truth with it. There are no guarentees exposure will kill the affair immediately, but it is guarenteed the affair won't die immediately by doing nothing.

Imagine your WW's affair is a bomb. There is a bomb in your house. It is ticking and is going to destroy your life and what you hold dear if you can't diffuse it. You know the bomb is there. You don't know when the bomb might explode. You know this bomb is going to cause harm to your family. Instead of calling in the bomb squad immediately (by exposing to all who can influence the outcome), you choose to wait to make that phone call. Because alerting your family and friends to the bomb just doesn't suit you right now. You want your child to feel happy over the holiday, and will tell her about the bomb later. Your child will be able to work out that you knew there was a bomb ticking over the holiday, but pretended there wasn't.

Maybe a bad analogy, but just trying to give you a wake-up call. DD, you are delaying the bomb squad FOR A TIME THAT SUITS YOU BETTER!!!
Cara, thank you for chiming in. The problem that DD is wrestling with is his fear of his wife. Until he is against the wall and is losing everything, he will dangle helplessly. He's waiting for his WW to call the shots. Unfortunately.
I hope DD reads GJM's thread.

EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE!
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
I am exposing after the holiday.

For selfish reasons, I don't want to ruin my child's memory, because she seems to intend to do that for the next one.

Thats up to you. Sometimes people have to make their own mistakes to see what's what.

Do you really think the people on these boards have not experienced dealing with an A on an important day?

Try it, and before you start saying you dont want to expose before Christmas - really examine the success of the day.

You and WW with forced plastic smiles. Her going out of the room to text OM about how she wishes she were really with him etc. You trying to look like you havent been kicked in the gut. Your child realising how tense you all are and wondering if it is their fault.

Or you both do a really great job of pretending all is fine. You do a really great job of lying to your child. A great job LYING.

I dont think you understand the dynamics of adultery at all. A holiday feeds the drama of an A. The whole 'I wish I was with you REALLY - but I cant because of the children' then the AP goes - 'Oh I know, I understand because I am such a sensitive soul. I only want whats best for your child too'

You are actively propping up this fantasy in her head by agreeing to put on a fake holiday for your child with her.

She is over the moon that you are agreeing to help her in her deceptions.

On the other hand, if EVERYONE knows - she is forced to face what she is doing to her family.

You can wait to do it, but while you do the afair partners grow closer, feed each other more dramatic garbage, the affair becomes more entrenched. Having to spend a special day apart in particular, makes them long for each other.

Think about it.
Is it Christmas or Thanksgiving that you are waiting to expose after? Not that it matters much but a month more of letting WW and OM to get closer would destroy you and your marriage.
I'm no expert here, but I'm going through the same thing as you and everyone else here. I was worried about exposing the A because I was worried about the holidays as well. I have 3 children in this. My WW and I planned on sharing Thanksgiving and Christmas together to try to keep us as a family. What I didn't realize is that with an A still ongoing, the WW isn't missing out on anything. She's having her cake and eating it too. I finally exposed the A and also figured that she may miss us because now she doesn't have anyone to turn to and the holidays are supposed to be special. Children are smart too. My DS11 knew prior to me telling him about the A. When I told him, he said "mom is taking advantage of you and you should cut her off so she sees how hard it is without us." I was surprised to hear him say this, but children are smarter than we give credit for. I hope you stop waiting to expose because you're giving your WW a special memory with the OM. They will share the holidays together in their hearts and grow stronger. Your pain won't go away when you expose, but you will get some relief. You owe it to your child and your marriage. My WWs family hasn't supported me, but they know I wasn't the one who caused this. The truth shall set you free.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Is it Christmas or Thanksgiving that you are waiting to expose after? Not that it matters much but a month more of letting WW and OM to get closer would destroy you and your marriage.


Thanksgiving.

After considering it more, any impact from pre T vs. post T, might come from OM side given there is no respect for "family" on either my or WS side.

We always do our own thing.....which she's already indicated "I'm not sure how I feel about cooking'. Which would mean, pre T from WS side will guarantee a negative experience for our child.


Been a while since I have logged in - but wanted to chime in about my experience with exposure. This statement is so true

Quote
My DS11 knew prior to me telling him about the A. When I told him, he said "mom is taking advantage of you and you should cut her off so she sees how hard it is without us." I was surprised to hear him say this, but children are smarter than we give credit for.

In my situation - my sons (16&22) at the time - went to visit the OM and basically told him to buzz off. They were trying prevent me from knowing - fearful that I would go extreme if I found out. Meanwhile - I was working on my own plan. I'd been ignoring the truth because it was just to painful to accept.

In short - their relationship with their mother is still strong - they were protecting her and their family. Kids have a huge stake in their family's well being - its the only family they have. BTW - affair was broken immediately - their exposure/confrontation was definately a bucket of ice cold water poured on the lovebirds.
Quote
We always do our own thing.....which she's already indicated "I'm not sure how I feel about cooking'. Which would mean, pre T from WS side will guarantee a negative experience for our child.
It sounds like your child is going to have a negative experience either way.

Pre-holiday exposure could make for some interesting table talk at OM's house. Consider that it might make for a pretty negative holiday experience for HIM.

Get it done, DD. You are fiddling while Rome burns.
WS removed any reservation I had about PreT vs. PostT.

Tonight, WS made it clear that in her mind being with the OM is her priority above everything else including the pleas of our child to "don't go out". WS response was to dismissively chuckle and say "Oh, You're being silly." "See you guys in the morning."

WS knows I will not confront and make a scene in front of our child.....and I did not react to avoid making our already anxious child even more so, and enabling WS to say "he's only acting that way because of what you said."

Call it denial, or naivity I have attributed WS abnormal and abhorant behavior as characteristic of being in an affair. But as time has passed, and the selfishness and callousness has exponentially increased I'm beginning to question if it's less influence of the affair, and simply huge character flaws that will never change.

How do you know which is the more likely scenario ?

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Call it denial, or naivity I have attributed WS abnormal and abhorant behavior as characteristic of being in an affair. But as time has passed, and the selfishness and callousness has exponentially increased I'm beginning to question if it's less influence of the affair, and simply huge character flaws that will never change.

How do you know which is the more likely scenario ?

I think it's a sign that she has absolutely no respect for you, and sees you only as someone to mind the children when she wants to have her fun. Given your unwillingness to stand up for your M, can you blame her?
Exactly.

You can man up, or fold. Your WW sees you as folding, as do I. She's no different the any other WS here.

You have every right to, but choose one direction.
Perhaps your delay on exposure really comes down to your ambivalence about wanting to stay in the marriage. You've let this go for so long that you must be running incredibly low on love for her and any enthusiasm about recovery.

Maybe you just needed to get so disgusted that you could feel ok about moving on.

As the days go on, you seem more and more bitter about your situation. This is why trying to bust up the affair is so crucial and it needs to be done as quickly as one can muster.

Because otherwise, the love dies and recovery is simply impossible.
And it IS disgusting. That she just takes off for the night while your child begs her not to go?

I agree with Surfer above. You need to decide what you want to do and move forward with it whether it's busting up the affair and attempting recovery or moving on via divorce.
Originally Posted by zibbles
And it IS disgusting. That she just takes off for the night while your child begs her not to go?

I agree with Surfer above. You need to decide what you want to do and move forward with it whether it's busting up the affair and attempting recovery or moving on via divorce.

I'd pack the kids in the car, head to walmart, buy a screw driver and a new set of locks for the doors. Head home, tuck the kids back in and change the locks. Takes about 5minutes a door. Keep em locked.
Originally Posted by zibbles
And it IS disgusting. That she just takes off for the night while your child begs her not to go?

I agree with Surfer above. You need to decide what you want to do and move forward with it whether it's busting up the affair and attempting recovery or moving on via divorce.



And it's the disgustingness that makes me wonder if WS is too far gone.

But I'm realizing, that not only do I have no way to know or control how WS will react, but I can't even imagine to what extent WS will go to "get even" for what she will undoubtedly view as "being wronged" by exposure.

Like I said, WS removed any reservation I had about PreT vs. PostT. There's nothing to be gained by waiting.

Though, I wouldn't be surprised if it won't do anything to change WS, other than bring increased vengeance, vitriol, and vindictiveness from an already callously uncaring WS.

No one has indicated the preceding as a result of their exposure, but I honestly see it as a high risk.


Exposure will accelerate your process for sure. It will get you out of this stuck place. Heavens, if she can chuckle on her way out the door to see her adultery partner and spit in your face by chirping "I'll see you in the morning!" then why shouldn't the whole world hear the good news that she's fallen in love?

I honestly don't know how you can stand being in the position you're in. The feeling of impotence must be eating you alive.

I think you're heading towards a divorce and want one more than you've been willing to admit to yourself. There's just no other reason to suffer this agony.

And really, what can she do to you? You have a lawyer lined up...she'll freak if exposed...so what? Anything seems better than being stuck in this hell you're in now.
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
I'd pack the kids in the car, head to walmart, buy a screw driver and a new set of locks for the doors. Head home, tuck the kids back in and change the locks. Takes about 5minutes a door. Keep em locked.


While I can relate to the sentiment,

It's the legality of what you can and can't do vs. the things you would like to do.

One of the criticisms I have received was related to my pursuing legal counsel to prevent myself from creating more problems, as a result of ignorance of the law when I chose to expose, than I already was facing.

All of the things you typically hear about reactions like "changing the locks", "packing their bags" and "kicking WS to the curb", while things you can relate to feeling like you would like to do, does not change the fact that (at least in my state) are illegal to do.

99% of the time allowing emotions to control or guide your actions will be 100 % the wrong thing to do. (I know, I should follow my own advice.) :-)
If protecting yourself and your child is what matters, get the ball rolling on the divorce and DO it. This situation is not good for your child. Why is he clinging to his mother? He knows things are terribly wrong.

I imagine at this point you are out of love your wife.

If I'm wrong then go ahead and shine a light in the darkness. Expose and let her feel the weight of her decisions. She has had NO consequences for this vile behavior. There is nothing to fear from her.

Check out GJM and what's happened in his life over the last few days since exposure. He's feeling stronger, his kids are putting pressure on his wayward and she's starting to realize that she's losing control. It's awesome to witness.

As someone here, pointed out earlier in this thread,

Is that what you are willing to be ? A fallback "consolation prize" when affair falls apart ?

I have told WS, that I love her, but I hate what she is choosing to do.

For the sake of our child not growing up in a single parent broken home being shuffled back and forth.....and the fact that I have made an unconditional commitment and meant it "for better for worse.......till death do us part"......and because I love the person I know is still somewhere under the seething resentment and anger and bad behavior......believe it or not I could forgive.

It's the thought of "even if OM fails, and WS doesn't come back........then all exposing accomplished is minimizing cooperation in a coparenting relationship for even more years than the original marriage.

Not an attractive thought/option.

It's the thought of "even if OM fails, and WS doesn't come back........then all exposing accomplished is minimizing cooperation in a coparenting relationship for even more years than the original marriage.

Not an attractive thought/option.
_______

Do you really think this woman is going to be punishing you for years to come if you tell other people the truth and ask them to help save your marriage????????????

If she is a decent person, she will be a good co-parent and if she is a bad person she will not be a good co-parent anyway. Do you think you are so important to her if she divorces that she will let you dictate her actions for years? If she wants to sabotage a coparenting plan, she will indeed find a reason to do so. Exposure, insults, you showing up 5 minutes late, bad breath, anything.

You are making a big mistake in your thinking.
If you want to coparent with her so bad, you might as well go straight to plan D. Oh and while you are at is, remember that if you self-censor your moves now, because of fear of bad coparenting, you are giving her the power to hold ou hostage and to dictate what you do. EVEN WITHOUT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO YOU LET HER PLAY YOU LIKE A DOLL ON STRINGS. How sad is that?
Do you think she thinks about you even 1/3 of how much you think of her?? Ya think?

Wake up.

Happyheart
Ok, Dr Harley likens affairs to addiction, and I really do see this. Your WW is now falling down drunk, she has become a mean drunk, and you are letting her walk out the door to get her next drink without telling anyone who might help talk her out of it?

You need to expose NOW.

Stop letting WW be a closet drinker.

Please stop being a doormat and an enabler. I say this because I am worried for you and your child.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Tonight, WS made it clear that in her mind being with the OM is her priority above everything else including the pleas of our child to "don't go out". WS response was to dismissively chuckle and say "Oh, You're being silly." "See you guys in the morning."


If you are afraid that exposure will make her nasty and disrespectful, you can�t get much worse than behaviour like this.

And her SHOCKING behaviour is a direct result of your failure to expose

She sees you as a doormat and treats you as one. If you are to split, she needs to know her child�s dad is not a doormat. If you are to stay together she needs to know you are not a doormat too!

Being blatantly wayward in this way, knowing that you will not speak the truth in front of your child � shes using the poor kid as a shield.

She is also using the holidays as a shield, comfortable that you will not rock any boats and keep the home lights burning while she goes out and does as she pleases.

Take this tool away from her immediately by shining the light of truth on her behaviour. Show your confused and pleading child that at least Dad is capable of honesty around here. Manage it sensitively and without any fear. Show WS there is nowhere to hide, that there are consequences to her actions.

When she blows up and gets furious � tell her you did it for the marriage and for your child. Then whistle and go about your day

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Call it denial, or naivity I have attributed WS abnormal and abhorrant behavior as characteristic of being in an affair. But as time has passed, and the selfishness and callousness has exponentially increased I'm beginning to question if it's less influence of the affair, and simply huge character flaws that will never change.

How do you know which is the more likely scenario ?


Some WSs change when the affair dies and they are free of the addiction. Some insist on staying wayward and getting the feelgood fix of cheap and easy relationships forever.

There is really no way to tell until you kill the affair. So kill it and see.

I am not sure what you are waiting for. It is clear your child is getting more distressed and confused by the day. due to the lies. Your wife gets more disrespectful and cruel because she feels protected by the lies.

Expose. You arent going to hear anything different on here, and you cant move on to the next step until taking the first.


Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Tonight, WS made it clear that in her mind being with the OM is her priority above everything else including the pleas of our child to "don't go out". WS response was to dismissively chuckle and say "Oh, You're being silly." "See you guys in the morning."

I am not sure why this surprised you or you would think this would be out of the norm. Waywards DO NOT have their families and children in mind. They are selfish, entitled, and in their foggy heads can justify their bad behavior.


This is my last shot on exposure and then I am done:

DD, I realize you think you are doing right by your child by trying to de-escalate the hostility in your WW but just remember that the more you enable this (by not exposing), that you are just hurting your child more. Waywards do NOT make good parents.

Even if you aren't sure if you can save the marriage, I would fight like hell to end this affair and bring your WW out of the fog. Once you separate, your child will still have to deal with it and even worse, you will have no control what is going on when he is with her.
SQ,
Originally Posted by SusieQ
DD, I realize you think you are doing right by your child by trying to de-escalate the hostility in your WW

but just remember that the more you enable this (by not exposing), that you are just hurting your child more.


I wasn't surprised, more so angered by it and frustrated.

Resulting in opening my eyes to see the situation clearly and see what needs to be done......sooner rather than later.

Everything I have done in an attempt to do right by our child, has and will continue to be the opposite of WS focus while under the current influence.....and possibly long after.

I get it.

Exposing is making a final stand and declaration of my commitment to trying to save my family.

Successful or not.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Successful or not.

A successful exposure is ~~~> exposure where the chosen targets become aware of the fact that there is an affair interfering with a marriage.

None of us can control the outcome. (what other people will do)

Many of us believe that keeping an affair a secret is aiding & abetting the adulterers. Exposure is the successful end that.
Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Exposing is making a final stand and declaration of my commitment to trying to save my family.

Successful or not.


Music to my ears! Exposure ALWAYS brings empowerment and success in that sense and you are over due for release from this abusive secret.

What is your exposure plan. targets/method of communication..?
Was considering:

Text message (WS) f&f
Facebook "Friends" with same last name of OM.

Recommended methodology ?
Don't tell WW that you're exposing.

Don't warn her.

Do it and don't look back. And we've already told you a million times that she will be furious and will spit vile venom at you for doing so. She will go absolutely nuts.

Going nuts is good. It means its effective.

For your own pride as a man, expose.

Exposure won't hurt you legally. Changing the locks would, but exposure doesn't hurt you.

So quit making excuses and do it.

Start with her family. OM and his gf or wife. Then any friends of yours that could put pressure on the affair. Work and HR if they work together.

Then start on his side with his FB list, focusing on his family.

I really hope you're going to do this.

We've warned you that it will bring he77 upon your head.

Exposure doesn't ruing coparenting later. Amicability after a D is a fantasy. After a D the ex is nothing more than a business partner you interact with for your kids. That's it.

There is nothing friendly about court orders, subpoenas, lawyers, etc.

The outcome of exposure is that it brings the affair to light and OM can never be introduced at the new boyfriend whom she met after leaving you.

It will either fizzle out, end, or expedite the D process.

Your WW is a classic cake eater.

Originally Posted by DevotedDad
Exposing is making a final stand and declaration of my commitment to trying to save my family.

Successful or not.
The iron is hot, DD. STRIKE.
So DD, did you expose?

BTW, I waited years to expose, lead to multiple d-days, worked out poorly. Don't plan DD, plan MB!

ba
time to change the dynamics in this relationship. You will notice a paradigm shift when you regain some power over your life.
Execution plan / prep. :
Update FB acct. to include family photo.
Acquire VAR.
Expose to OM family via Facebook.
Expose to WS family via txt (really hard to write this one, trying to convey request for support saving marriage w/o defending / justifying .)


Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Two reasons for the VAR:

A) She might let something slip, and you'll want to access exactly what was said, and do some cross-checking later. Whipping out a pen and notebook to jot down the phrasing, etc, is awkward.

B) VERY FRICKIN' VITALLY IMPORTANT!!!!! WW is going to get angy as HELL when the inevitable exposure hits. She may consider a trumped-up domestic violence / threat / harrassment charge against you soon. The VAR, which you will take care to ALWAYS have turned "on" in her presence, will save you a great deal of trouble when the mindless law enforcement goons take her word (possibly supplemented by suborned perjury on the part of your child) and cart you off to jail, or otherwise run you out of your own home, because it's easier to do that than to actually, impartially, do their jobs!

Anyone want to wager five dollars on her first quote?

I'll go first. I think she'll say "I was going to work on the marriage until you did this" or some variation of that.

"I can't believe you did that! How can I ever TRUST you now???" dramaqueen
I should have picked that one MB...
Originally Posted by RMX
I should have picked that one MB...
Too late - I got it first.
rotflmao
`Nobody cares anyways. You just look crazy and stupid. Now everyone agrees that I should leave you.`
"I was going to end the affair MY WAY - and now you've ruined everything. I was ready to work on the marriage until you did that..."
Originally Posted by Scotland
`Nobody cares anyways. You just look crazy and stupid. Now everyone agrees that I should leave you.`

My WH's exact words - EXACTLY!!! "Nobody cares anymore, Tough, I hope you have the closure you need to move on and find someone that makes you happy."
"Are you crazy! I will never be with you now" lol.
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