That's right. I'm a FWW. I engaged in an online EA two years ago with an old high school guy on facebook. It lasted a couple months and consisted of sporadic, suggestive messages. I was acting like a freak and checking facebook all the time to see what he was doing, etc.

It ended when he drove hours to see me only to announce he was engaging in a full blown PA and had found true love at last. He's married by the way.

That encounter was so horrifying. I woke up and looked at what I was doing and the risks I was inviting into my life, my marriage and my family. This was two years ago. It took me another year to find marriage builders and start reading everything I could get my hands on and acting on it.

I used to be in the camp of "follow your bliss" and other such nonsense. I see marriages blowing up right and left all around me. I can sense when someone is casting around for an affair. It's everywhere!

This is why I feel I understand some of these WW's. I get the entitled, "I want to be happy and there's something better out there for me" BS because I lived it.

I'm sorry to say that I'm a counselor and up until the last 2 years, I offered very bad advice to my clients dealing with adultery. I still think about some of the people I injured with my crap insight.

Just thought it only fair to let everyone know my history. Posting here and especially encouraging the BH's is part of how I'm trying to make amends.

I've been working to create a better marriage and have a long way to go. My husband isn't perfect but I love him and I want our family to work. We've talked about what happened in depth and also talk about how often those opportunities to let the boundaries slide come up. Like I said above, it's everywhere.

The thing is, some people have those boundaries and they're so firm. Others are sliding around all over the place. I honestly believe that people who get carried away by an extramarital affair are looking for it. They just can't admit it. I WAS looking for it. Some excitement, passion, romance, to feel attractive, etc but when I got up close and really saw what it was/is, I was and am horrified by it.

Shame on me.

I'm here to learn to be a better wife and partner, to learn to be of better service to my clients and to make amends.

Thanks for posting this, zibbles. I think that your thread title is a bit misleading. You have understood your past behaviour and you are doing things much differently now. You would be a wayward if you still had an affair, but you are not anymore.

Are you and your H both practising MB programme? Do you have kids and do they know?

Zibbles,

If you read Dr. Harley's work extensively and/or listen to the radio show, you can hear him talk about his assertion that we are "all wired to have an affair" depending on the environment. He also asserts that when it comes to trust, "everyone can be trusted under some conditions and no one can be trusted in all conditions". This is why it is important for married couples to set gender boundaries, such as not sharing personal or marital information with a person of the opposite sex; not being away from your spouse overnight, etc. For many people, they find themselves in an affair after a slippery slope of getting more and more emotional needs met by someone. It feels good to get needs met and Dr. Harley likens affairs to addictions.

Have you read and do you use Dr. Harley's book, "Effective Marriage Counseling" in your practice?

AM

zibbles, I wasn't sure what your story was, but I've always thought you were pretty spot-on in your posting. I'm glad to hear that you'll be able to use MB in your counseling - by now you've seen our despair over counselors who do the 'follow your dream' bs. (No offense )

Sad you had to learn how to counsel people in affair by having your own A.

Happy, with a good for you thrown in that you have learned how to counsel people in affairs.

Thanks for the back story, zibbles. Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Thank you for the kind welcome!

I've learned so, so much thanks to you! The re-writing of history, the addictive nature of affairs, the difficulty in ending things, the challenge to fall back in love, the fact that everyone thinks their situation is special, magical, or unique. Seeing the patterns here and how they play out over and over has been an incredible awakening for me personally and professionally.

I titled my post in present time because I still have wayward thinking at times, meaning I'm prone to fantasy about some other life, I still crave attention (but I'm careful not to act on that need outside my marriage) and I have work to do in terms of stopping some of the DJ's that happen in my head towards my spouse.

I can't thank you enough for sharing this space and your combined wisdom. This site has changed my perception and my life.

Welcome to MB Zib.

How are your H and you doing in your recovery? Did you expose the A to OMW?(either of them)

Do you and your H spend 20+ hours of UA together? Is there anything we can do to help you through this?

Keep posting. I am glad that MB has helped you help others.

Zibbles, I have been reading here and occassionally posting for more than two years. I am not an expert. I am a reforming verbal abuser (and always will be). How I wish I could or you could bottle your insight and experience and put it in the drinking water.
Because of my verbally abusive past I learned to try and "Control" and never figured out (until two years ago) that every effort I made to control my wife simply resulted in the opposite happening (with the exception of exposure of one of her affairs).
I don't know why exactly but your courageous posting here has left me in tears. Perhaps I wish my WW would somehow "see" what you have seen.

Zibbles, I am no expert. But I have a hunch that you are here "talking" in hopes others can learn from you but also so that you will find the strength to "walk the talk". Please do that because I cannot adequately tell you what the pain of being a betrayed spouse is. Please do that because you deserve to understand that you are living and acting the real dream now. And that dream has such a positive impact upon others as well as yourself.
You can change other peoples lives Zibbles! That is a gift! Just as a program to stop smoking is led by a former smoker... because they tend to understand more...
Please let me encourage you to use this gift. Perhaps one day your insight and knowledge will change the life of my own wife.
At least I would like to "dream" that.

Blessings,
Hurting Turkey
ME: BS 57
SHE: WW 50 and unrepentent about OM # 1 who I know about and still refusing to divulge OM # 2 (is he still there? I don't know)
Mine: 23, 29,30
Hers: 23, 19
Ours: 12

Welcome to the forum, Zibbles. Way to go with honesty. I'm glad to hear Marriage Builders has been helping you and will be helping the people around you.

Do you listen to the radio show? It's a fantastic resource!

Zibbles,

I am a 2 year vet on this site (had to change my login due to my thread being compromised), and am a betrayed spouse. My wife had an EA that, unfortunately, we have not been able to recover from despite more than 18 months of hard work. We are in the middle of an unfriendly divorce process.

One of the main reasons we haven't recovered is that my stbx never quite got to the point that you did - she never realized that she was wrong to have the relationship with OM. To this day, she has not accepted responsibility for her choices and actions. It's all my fault that our marriage failed.

In my fantasy world, she would see postings like yours on this site and think 'wow! that's me!' and at least start the process of understanding the pain and damage that she caused. She is aware of MB - we read SAA - and she has read a lot of Dr. H's material. It didn't work. She also found my thread, and now refers to MB as 'Marriage Busters'.

I applaud you for seeing where you were heading and taking responsibility for your actions. Your husband is a lucky man, and your future patients will be better served as a result of what you learned the hard way.

God Bless

Zibbles, a belated welcome to you.

Sometimes it's indeed helpful, when making comments or dispensing advice here, to keep things very simple, especially when posters seeking help (whether wayward or betrayed) are in true crisis-mode, barely able to breathe or put one foot in front of another to make it through a day.

However...

...when my MC put my wife & me onto "Surviving An Affair," something this did for us was give us both a conceptual framework around which to ponder what I'd done, and why; and where to go next, and why. It made me think. It made me realize I had a lot of thinking still to do. Along with actions to take.

Almost 3 years later, I'm still here for a lot of the same reasons as you indicate: I don't like to see people doing the same selfish stuff I did, and don't like to see other BSs in similar straits to that into which I put my wife. And I still learn things.

Sometimes I get lazy and will type something glibly, or merely quickly, without really adding/sharing my understanding of the "why's". But I find that people seem to respond better when I spend some extra time explaining how my own experience bears out a particular MB point that I'm trying to get across. Not just what I think someone should do when faced with a given situation, but also why I think they should do it, as opposed to some of other course of action.

Just a thought.

Perhaps you have much to offer here.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond when there are serious situations happening here at this very moment!

I was nervous about introducing myself and sharing my history because I'm embarrassed by it. I'm not just embarrassed about the past but the continuation of some very bad habits (AO's, DJ's, etc). I realized after sharing my story that there's a part of me that's still reluctant to tackle these behaviors with enthusiasm and focus. That's tough to admit.

Hurting Turkey touched on deep truth in suggesting that I am still learning to walk the talk. I have much to learn and apply to my own life towards making a better marriage and being a better counselor. I want to do the work but I don't? Very strange. It feels hypocritical to offer advice when I myself am not yet applying the wisdom here in my own life to the degree that I'm capable of.

Part of why I felt compelled to share my story is what you're now touching on Glove Oil. Some of my most recent comments have been a tad edgy and impatient. I realized I needed to dial it back a bit. I guess you could say I was getting riled up as certain stories remind me of my own process and where I happen to be stuck.

I've decided to quiet down a bit and get back in learning mode but I want everyone that I've posted to to know that you are in my prayers and I know you're in good hands here! I also feel dumb for taking up space here when there are so many real crisis' playing out.

I can't say it enough. Discovering this site has changed my life and outlook on so many levels. I hope I can find the strength to apply more of the wisdom to my own life.

THANK YOU!

This site has changed my perception and my life.

In that, Z, you are not unique. Good to have you in the fight!

Zibbles
Everyone here has a different style of posting, not everyone hears every style. Some of us need a heavy hand! I personally appreciate your insight. I really really appreciate your posts, please keeep it comming, if you have the time and inclination. None of this is easy, and yes it does seem to sound the same after a while, doesnt it.
Thanks again for posting

Zibbles,
I am so glad that you have found the MB principals and can suggest the site to your clients. I specifically went to a counselor when I started having my affair. I sat there sobbing and begging her to help me stop.

I even brought the POSOM with me for a session and then I brought my husband with me for a session.

Little did I know my counselor was in the middle of a divorce because he husband was cheating on her.

She did nothing to help me until the last session. She was moving out of state so I asked her to please be honest with me and tell me her opinion after having met both the POSOM and my BH. She said, "POSOM is a loser. You need to stop having the A and work things out with your husband."

It's complicated and you can read my story, but please tell your clients about MB. It's a "marriage savior" for sure.
CT

In some ways, this forum is like a "recovery" program.
It works if you work it.

Glad you are here.

I think I might have invented that nonsense.

"If it feels good, do it" <~~~ 1968

Pep ~~~> X-hippie

Zibbles, wanted to let you know your comments on my thread several weeks ago were extremely unhelpful and I reported them to the mods. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. A counselor you say? Wow

Well Texas Sun, I don't think I was alone in being shocked that after months of support and advice here, you failed to mention the infidelity (your one night stand) that kicked off the larger cycle of infidelity in your marriage.

You may have notified the mods but they obviously didn't have a problem with the comments because no one notified me of anything offensive. Good for you for finally coming clean and getting things back on track.

As far as my practice, I encourage my clients to stop lying to themselves, stop the blaming and take responsibility. I don't like the lies we tell ourselves to justify bad behavior or the lies we tell others to avoid consequences.

I practice this in my own life and marriage as well. I may have a lot of work and problems to solve but honesty and openness is not one of them.

Thanks again all! I'm taking the work to the next level thanks to YOU.

A real counselor! Maybe you can start having training sessions for other counselors, and get a few of them a clue!!!!

Most Counselors are totally messed up. Ask me how I know! Tons of alcoholism, addiction and sick relationships. It's sad. I've thought about trying my hand at something else but I just keep coming back to it.

I would LOVE to see more counselors get off the "let's rehash the past, and list all the flaws and bellyache over all that's not right."

UGH.

Thanks again. I'm venturing back to posting and embracing Glove Oil's wise advice to add some deets about my own experience. So many of you have inspired me! You'll never know but I'll do my best to let you know as often as I can.

Not much job security in that...

Amen, Neak!

It's easy to drag out therapy for years by immersing the client over and over in their own pain. Like I said above...UGH.

Hi zibbles, I noticed your post over on Senn's thread. I didn't want this to get lost (I occasionally re-read my own thread to further absorb MB advice and thought you might do the same).

I commend you on your self-awareness. If you need to concentrate on your own sitch at the moment, I hope you update your thread. This can help you grow and learn, as well as benefitting others. I think you have a lot to offer the forum.

Regardless, I wish you well on your personal growth, along with recovering your marriage.

Thank you for posting your insights as a fWW and I congratulate you for your personal and professional awakening. I know what you posted (emphasized) above is true for the vast majority of WSs--amazing how they all think their "situation is so unique and special", huh?--but is really is HORRIFYING to see and experience on the other end with a WS who has no self-awareness.

Oh, as a private counselor... maybe.

Do that crap in an acute or long-term mental health facility and you wouldn't stop skidding before your ears ground off...