I just cheated on my husband January 1 with someone I met online in October. I have been with my hubby since I was 19 and after 30 years of marriage and three kids I lost all my common sense! I felt I was missing out on something...my husband works long hours and really has no time for our relationship. My emotions are all over the place partly because I know I can never tell my husband. Also, I am no longer communicating with the man I cheated with and honestly it is hard, even though I know it is for the best. The other man lives in another state where I just went to visit family...it won't happen again...I am so very sorry I did what I did. Please someone help! I'm not a bad person, just an unhappy wife who now has a horribly guilty conscience. I just arrived home from my trip last night and I am asking my husband to give me what I so desperately need- his attention!

Hi Goldilocks,

You won't like to hear this right now, but there is no other way to recover a marriage -- YOU MUST BE HONEST, which means telling your husband what you have done. He has a right to make choices about his life with ALL the facts. When will you be telling him?

Mrs. W

Is your plan to lie to your husband for the remainder of your life?

I can't tell my husband, so my plan is to suffer with my guilty conscience the rest of my life.

Your husband cannot fix the problem if he does not know the truth. You can't continue to lie to him and expect to save your marriage.

Goldilocks,

And for sake of your H's health do not have sex with him unit you have been tested for STDs. Please do not put his health at risk. Unless you intend to never have sex again with your H.

God Bless
Gamma

Yes, you CAN tell him. You just mean you WON'T. Not telling him is cruel and manipulative. He has a right to know the truth about his own life. If you are really sorry, you will stop lying to him. A person who is truly sorry doesn't demonstrate that sorrow by decieving her victim.

You condem your husband to living with a liar the rest of his life.
Disrespect in the extreme.

This disrespect is the opposite of love.
Just divorce him.

Mature adults who are actually "sorry" do not hide behind lies.

Goldilocks, you said "Please, someone help." This is the help you are looking for.

This is not going to be something you want to do, but there are NO GOOD ALTERNATIVES.

Have you read the section of this website dedicated to explaining how to recover from infidelity?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Dr. Harley also has a very helpful video to watch:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

You can talk to Dr. Harley personally on his radio show, and I strongly encourage you to give him a call and hear how his plans can help you and your husband recover.

It would probably mean the end of my family. I can't tell him, and why is everyone so judgmental here?

Plus, let me just point out that what you did has an effect on your husband. It changes your marriage. Even if he does not know why it has changed, it has changed.

This affects him too.

His is the "victim" of your crime.

Thank you

Your adultery might mean the end of your family, but for many people it has not. There are many people here just like you who have committed adultery and whose marriages have not ended and are better now than ever. Those people can help you learn what to do to keep your family.


You have asked for help, and you are being told what you need to do. It will probably make you feel bad, but that is a consequence of doing something wrong. The help is to show you the path to take. Nobody said that the path is easy or will feel good. But you put yourself on that path when you committed adultery.

Would you like us to help show you how to walk that painful path to the goodness on the other side? Or would you rather proceed blindly and follow your feelings until your family falls apart?

Getting in touch with Dr. Harley is the best help you can get. Check out his video and that entire section of articles.

We see people here every day who are in exactly the situation you have been in. Many have recovered, many more have NOT! Dr. Harley has been doing this for forty years.

You were: the experience of driving a dagger into your husband's chest and twisting it repeatedly. Now that you've experienced what you were "missing out on," how does it feel?


You most certainly can, and you must. Right away.

This

and this

don't go together.

Neither do this

and this


It is highly likely that your guilt will subside as you become more confident in the security of your vile secret. With no changes in your marriage, there is little doubt that you will seek out the other man once again to get your fix.

You're in a lot of denial here, Goldilocks. Step one to fixing this mess is telling your husband.

You know, chances are he's gonna find out sooner or later anyway. It's significantly better for all involved if it's from you.

Now.

In fact, I strongly suggest you read through all of that material and then come back here with questions about it. Posting before you've read it is likely to just confuse you. Dr. Harley explains the path.

Because we (as a group) are very educated about marriages affected by adultery.

LINK **** READ THIS ****

The continued lie will KILL your marriage.

[video:youtube][/video]

Infidelity: What every couple should know.


What every MB forum poster should watch.

So you ADMIT you know he would end your marriage and you intend on tricking him into staying married to you? That is about as cruel and manipulatve as it gets. You DENY your H the right to make the decision whether or not he stays married to a cheater.

You are DANGEROUS. Anyone who would trick someone into staying married to her is cruel and vicious.

Why are we "judgemental?" You are supposed to JUDGE right from wrong, Madam. Your inability to judge right from wrong is what led to your affair. Our prisons are full of people who cannot judge right from wrong and is right where they belong.

Is your adultery partner married too? Does he have children?

I know I did something very stupid. And yes, he is married with kids.

Want a smarter 2012?

Buy SAA LINK to bookstore.

Have you been tested for STDs?

Goldi~

It will mean the end of your family if you DON'T tell him. A lie will erode any possible chance of real intimacy between you and your husband. I am a FWW [former wayward wife] myself, so I'm telling you this from the same side of the equation that you are on -- I am exercising judgement about something that I have insight into -- My affair was in 2005 -- my husband and I recovered our marriage and couldn't be happier together than we are today. That would not be true without honesty. It really is the only way, Goldi.

Goldi, if you didn't have all the facts about your life, would that be okay? Let's say your husband had a 5 year affair and decided that he just couldn't tell you because you might choose to divorce him if you knew. Wouldn't that be tricking you into staying married to him? Wouldn't you deserve the right to make the choice about whether or not you wanted to stay married to someone who cheated on you for 5 years? You would have a right to all the facts about your life, wouldn't you? If you weren't given all the facts in order to make an informed choice, well that would mean you were being treated like a pet, wouldn't it? How is your husband any different?

Goldi -- No one ever regrets doing the right thing.

Mrs. W

Amen, sista'

Nothing you all can say will hurt as much as what I am putting myself through.

We're not trying to hurt you.
We are trying to educate you.

Again, Goldilocks, I strongly suggest that you watch that video (both Pepperband and I have posted it), READ Dr. Harley's entire section of articles on how to get OUT of this, and only THEN come back and post.

The back and forth posting at this point will not help you until you read, and I want to see you helped.

Nobody is trying to hurt you, and nobody wants you to hurt, but the road that you have placed yourself on HURTS. We would like to see you move forward in a productive direction to stop the hurting for everybody.

Please stop thinking about yourself, it's these selfish thoughts that got you where you are.

Think about your husband he deserves to know and so does the OMW, she has the right to know that her husband is a cheater.

You will not get any other advice on here and you will NOT move on and achieve anything positive until you tell you H and OMW. The sooner you accept this the better.

I feel telling him would only mean putting what happened onto him too- why hurt him too?

You walk about hating yourself right now.
What husband deserves such a wife?

Goldi~

You are not the victim here. Self pity won't help you, and it certainly won't help your husband.

There is great empowerment in taking responsibility for your choices. After all, you can't very well take credit for the good things, if you don't own up to and make amends for the bad things, right? "The truth will set you free" isn't just a cute saying, it is a fact.

Mrs. W

That ship has sailed, Goldi -- You have already hurt him -- just because you haven't been honest about it yet, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It has. Now you must be honest and make amends.

Mrs. W

You already hurt him he just isn't aware yet and you will carry on hurting him by not telling him.

Do you want a marriage that is built on lies and secrets or do you want a marriage where your open and honest with each other and are truly in love?


I personally rather risk divorce than be in a marriage where there are secret and lies.

Goldilocks, please stop talking and start listening. You need to review the plan here (from Dr. Harley) before you go on.

You have already hurt him. He has a severe wound he has not felt, yet.

Would you like help to minimize the pain?

Ever ripped off a bandaid?

So there are many other victims in all this besides your husband? How will your husband and his wife protect themselves and your children from you and the OM if they don't know what you have done to them?

You are DANGEROUS and they must know what you are so they can take cover.

Goldi~

I would very much appreciate it if you would answer these questions from a previous post of mine:


Thank you in advance.

Mrs. W

You already hurt him. You hurt him by crawling into the pig pen with some other woman's husband. You make amends by telling the truth. You don't make amends by compounding the crime and decieving your victim.

Every second that you withhold the truth you dig the wound a little deeper, Goldi.

Mrs. W

Goldilocks,

I feel telling him would only mean putting what happened onto him too- why hurt him too?

Because good marriages are honest marriages, you can't have a good marriage and think of your betrayal every time you look at your husband for the next 20 years, or think of the OM every time you have sex with your H.

God Bless
Gamma

He is already hurt. My now XH had an affair in my home with my then 19 year old cousin (he was 37). They kept that dirty little secret for 7 years until they were CAUGHT by a keylogger talking about it to each other on line. I spent SEVEN years living with a liar. I knew something was very very wrong about their relationship (I had people telling me they had an affair but my then husband and my cousin denied it) for SEVEN years.

We will never know how I would have reacted if they had come clean when it first happened. My marriage might have survived. As it is, finding out SEVEN years later was just too much. Now my ds's family is split apart and my own family (the relatives that my cousin and I have in common) are devastated by her actions then and her LIES for 7 years.

Do the right thing. Even if he divorces you, at least you will have the dignity of doing the right thing by telling him.

I just watched the video, thank you for posting it. I wish I had watched it even last week.

Most likely a lack of honesty on your part led to the marital problems you were facing before the affair.

And with radical honesty, your affair never would have happened.

Now your solution is more dishonesty? That is not the MB way and we are here to tell you that your M will never make it.



The Policy of Radical Honesty

What did you LEARN?

I had tried to tell my hubby- over and over that I NEED more from him. He also has a part in what happened. He is sarcastic and disrespectful to me, no sense of humor. In my opinion he neglects me. I am trying to make our marriage better by telling him what I need...I need emotional support- he needs sex. He gets that!

I am so glad to hear that, Goldilocks.

You are in a very precarious position. You've set fire to the house. Now you've got a building (your marriage) that's going to go up in flames if you aren't very careful to put the fire out properly.

Do not at this point attempt to put out a grease fire by pouring water on it. That might seem to be the right thing to do, but if you know anything about fire safety, then you know that this instinct (feeling) will steer you wrong and mean disaster.

It's a lot like that. Your instincts may lead you to disaster (they have already put you on that road), which is why I strongly encourage you to follow Dr. Harley's advice. Even if it looks like the path may be painful. We will offer you all the support we can for that, but,

THE HOUSE IS BURNING!!!!

Now, here is the fire extinguisher, and it's going to be very important for you to read the full instructions in order to learn how to properly put out the fire:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

I know this is a lot of reading, and I know time is limited, but you have got to do this if you want to have any hope. There are many pages there: coping with infidelity, unfaithful husband, unfaithful wife, can we forgive and forget, how to avoid an affair ... read them all. Even the parts that at first may not seem to apply to you, because there is still a lot of information in there that is going to be very helpful.

Come back with QUESTIONS about what you've read, and we can help you!

I also suggest you consider contacting Dr. Harley to talk to him personally on his radio show. He will offer help, he and his wife Joyce will continue to be available to help you after you call in, and they will send you a free copy of the book Surviving an Affair, which is going to be your guidebook for getting out of this.

We can help you get your husband motivated to fix the problem of neglect.

But we cannot do that while the house is burning.

The fire must be put out. You have lit the fire, and you are going to have to get it put out. Please start reading the fire extinguisher manual before saying much more.

And this wasn't any long term thing at all, we were together probably a total of three hours over two days.

I am also interested in hearing what you learned from watching Dr. Harley's video, Goldi. Once you finish telling us that, will you please answer my questions that I am quoting below?

Mrs. W

So are you saying you don't have a problem with honesty?

When is Dr. Harley on the radio??

Goldi, he cannot have had a part in something that he knew nothing about.

Did you copy him in on your online chats? Did you tell him that you were communicating with a man? Did you tell him that you were going to see him? Did you get his agreement to your going?

Your H had no knowledge of any of the things you did, so how can he have a part in it? Nobody can have a part in something they did not know about!

Read the BASIC CONCEPTS first.

Goldi,

Did you get tested for STDs?

God Bless
Gamma

No, he does not, Goldi.

He was not given input in YOUR CHOICE to commit adultery.

He did not hold a gun to your head and force you to commit adultery. You CHOSE to do that all by yourself.

His neglect did not force you to commit adultery -- that was your choice. Please own that, okay?

There are MANY people that are neglected in their marriages who do not choose to commit adultery.

Mrs. W

Following your feelings got you into bed with another woman's husband and turned you into an adulteress.

Welcome to MB.

The ONLY part your hubby has in all this is the condition of your marriage .. which is 50% his doing .. but YOU are 100% responsible for having an affair .. even if it was brief.

Tell him the TRUTH then tell him you know of a plan (the MB plan) to recover from this and make it impossible for it to happen again. Then let HIM decide if he wants to stay or not ... and recomend he come here for support. he needs to know .. and so does the OMW. But only YOU have the fire extinguisher to put this out ... By not telling him you will feel disconnected from your hubby fro the rest of your marriage.

The TRUTH will set you free.

MNG

Can you please do me a favor and answer my questions as they were asked? Separately and addressed to you.

Thanks.

Mrs. W

The effects are still certainly devastating, and you need to understand the path you are on and how to recover.

Here's the page about the radio program, Goldilocks:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

You are the LAST person qualified to decide what your husband "needs" or doesn't need. Your H is not an idiot who needs you to make his decisions for him. He is not a child and he is not your PET. He is a grown man who can make his own decisions. HE will decide if divorce is an option. This is his right.

All you are trying to do is trick him into staying married to you against his will. That is cruel and manipulative.

I will post my ?s for you again: [I have amended the "5 years" part -- though it doesn't matter -- cheating for 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 years, etc is ALL still cheating...and still requires the same thing: HONESTY!]

I am also posting a follow up question to your "of course not" answer to my first question.

* Goldi, if you didn't have all the facts about your life, would that be okay? Goldi's answer = Of course not!

Follow up: * Then why is it okay for your husband not to have all the facts about his life?

* Let's say your husband had an affair and decided that he just couldn't tell you because you might choose to divorce him if you knew. Wouldn't that be tricking you into staying married to him?

* Wouldn't you deserve the right to make the choice about whether or not you wanted to stay married to someone who cheated on you?

* You would have a right to all the facts about your life, wouldn't you?

* If you weren't given all the facts in order to make an informed choice, well that would mean you were being treated like a pet, wouldn't it?

* How is your husband any different?

Mrs. W

Thank you Markos, I appreciate it...

This program doesn't work without radical honesty.

Do you understand that, Goldi?

This just happened last weekend. I'm still trying to understand everything. We quit communicating a few days ago and it is emotionally hard- I'm sorry about that, but it is. We both understand we need to work on our marriages and what we did wasn't right. We were in touch every day since October and it hurts right now, but I'm trying to do the right thing!

I appreciate your honesty.

Keep reading.
Keep posting.
Answer Mrs W's questions.

If you are serious about doing the right thing, then you need to go tell your husband the truth TONIGHT. And after you do that you can tell the kids.

We will see how serious you really are by your ACTIONS.

In this you cannot "try". You must DO.

If you are determined to keep this a secret..then you are doomed to repeat it again. It's a loyalty that you will always share with this OM and your marriage will be doomed to fail because of it. Maybe not today or tomorrow or months from now..but eventually it will catch up to you..and what you are trying to prevent now by keeping it a secret will inevitably happen when your BH finds out the truth..on his own.

And, get tested for STDs.
Chances are, this was not OM's first adultery.

It wasn't only ONE day, it was MONTHS, and the longer you wait to come clean with your BH, the longer it lasts.

Many of us here, the BSs, thought that we wouldn't even try if our spouse had an A, well that didn't turn out to be true once we were faced with it. It's up to your BH.

You have A LOT of esteemed vets posting to you, because they came to the call for help. But it wasn't for YOU that they came. It's for YOUR Betrayed Husband, your marriage, and Other Man's Betrayed Wife. Let them help.

Stop whining and listen, Goldilocks. What you did is breathtakingly stupid and selfish. And you know that, or you wouldn't have come to a marriage building website. What did you expect us to do - enable your wayward mentality by patting you on the hand and saying 'There, there'?

We don't pull punches, here. If you're doing the right thing, we support and applaud you. If you're doing something that will drive your marriage into the ditch, we're going to advise you appropriately.

Consider a few things: You CAN tell your husband, but because you are selfish and entitled, you CHOOSE not to. The moment you engaged in the affair with OM, you became an adulterous liar. Your H is married to an adulterous liar. Look in the mirror and you will see an adulterous liar. As long as you hide the facts of his marriage from your husband, you will remain an adulterous liar. So plan to go through life with that title affixed to yourself. You are an ADULTEROUS LIAR who betrayed her husband and her marriage vows.

You think I'm being mean to you? I'm not. I have no emotional investment with you, and my words are posted strictly to help you. My husband had an affair. For as long as he was involved with OW and hiding his filthy secret from me, he was an adulterous liar. Every time he looked in the mirror, he saw an adulterous liar. Until he told me everything about the affair, he was an adulterous liar. These are not my words. They are words he used to describe who he was during his affair.

When he confessed his affair and began recovery based on complete honesty and the concepts here, he was no longer an adulterous liar. See how it works?

Consider something else: you didn't have an affair with yourself. There are two people keeping this secret of yours. You have no control over what OM does with this secret. If he is married, the guilt may get the best of him and he will confess to his wife. She may well choose to call your husband so he knows what he's married to. Or she will find evidence of the affair and he will admit it. If he is single, he may one day 'get religion' and decide to track your husband down to confess the affair as part of his penance. You control NONE of these things. You should plan to keep watch for the day when you walk in the house and see your husband standing there, staring at you in shock with the phone in his hand. How long do you want to live like that? Did you read the recent story of the 99 year old man who is divorcing his wife of 70 years? He just found out she was unfaithful to him - about 60 YEARS ago. Is this how you choose to live? I can't help but wonder how differently things would have turned out for them had she only told the truth decades earlier. You see, Goldilocks, much of the hurt a betrayed feels comes from the hiding and deception of the affair. So hiding it will only compound his agony when he DOES find out. And it's interesting how truth has a way of popping up when you least expect it.

Your H deserves the truth. He deserves to choose whether or not he wishes to remain married to someone he trusted who dealt him this blow. That's HIS call, not YOURS. Amazingly, a large number of betrayed spouses choose to remain in their marriage and recover from the affair. I am one of them. There are many more. If you are very, very blessed, your H will be one of them as well. It's wrong of you to take that choice away from him.

Or you can weasel your way through life and hope every single day that he never finds out, unlike that 99 year old man.

What do you want to do?

I do appreciate everyone's advice. Thank you to everyone who has tried to help. I don't understand why I would need to tell my kids. What good would that do???

Get STD testing.

Keeping it a secret worked so well for this woman.

Yes, I am not happy with who I see in the mirror either.

Do you think its good to lie to kids about the source of tension in their home? Your adultery affects them too, and they deserve the truth as well. Honesty is the solution, not more lies.

Get STD testing.

Kids know. They already know something isn't right. You're behaving differently even though you don't believe that. They may well be trying to figure out what it is that THEY are doing wrong, that things seem 'weird' about you. Kids will blame themselves when their parents are behaving differently than they normally do. They can sense a veil of dishonesty when it falls over their family. And they will assume it has something to do with them. Don't set them up for this.

Gee, you had an affair and you think he has no right to be suspicious?

You DID encourage attention from a man!

We've been married 30 YEARS and not until now! And this guy told me everything I wanted to hear...everything I don't hear from my hubby. He is a player, and knew how to keep me going. Moving from chatting to emails and IM to texting and phone calls, when he knew I was only interested in chatting. He played me...sadly. But he was good at it...

Get STD testing.

You must NOT have sex with your husband until you've been tested and you know the results.
You may lie your way out of certain things, but STDs are not so easily lied about.

Okay, I got the message Pepperband ty...

By the way ..... throwing your husband's character under the bus the same week you've defiled your body with OM is not very attractive.

It's too late.

Have you?
I've been married 30 years too.

Cut it out.

Well, that's what I've been living with all these years.

Gold you are CHOOSING to live like this. No one is making you lie and deceive your H.

How many people are posting on your thread all telling you the SAME thing, some of the posters are BS others are former WS and all have had to go through making impossibly hard decisions about their marriage and life and are in a better place than you are because they are doing the right things.

And no matter HOW bad your marriage has been cheating is never going to improve it.

Can you really live with hiding this secret from your H for the rest of your married life? Really can you?

Again, you are the last person to decide what your H can or "can't handle." Does the rapist decide what is good for the rape victim? Of course not. What he can't handle are your lies and your adultery.

And he was RIGHT to be jealous and accuse you of cheating. YOU ARE A CHEATER!! DUH!! EARTH TO GOLDILOCKS!

You are trying to tell us it is bad to accuse you of adultery but ok for you to commit adultery. Do you see how silly that is?

Goldilocks,

I would encourage you to read the forums posts here on MB, doing so is what turned my marriage around, you will hit upon more than a few WW threads like your own, and more than a few BH threads that will sound like they were written by your H.

I think doing so will make what posters are telling you here seem obvious.

God Bless
Gamma

And he is living with a lying, cheating adulterer. It doesn't get any worse than that.

Hi Goldilocks. It took me 1 and a half years to confess my "meaningless", "brief", "drunk" one night stand to my husband. In the meantime I got entrenched in emotional affair and he got involved in a physical affair and a one night stand. Trust me, the pain of what happened after my unconfessed sin I wouldnt wish upon anyone. Please save yourself the heartache and come clean now, the consequences of unconfessed sin are devastating.

You are not sorry, you just feel guilty. As you should. And you will continue to feel guilty until you make this right. Committing adultery is bad enough, but conniving to deceive and defraud your husband only compounds the crime.

A person who is truly remorseful makes amends. There are no amends here, just a plan to continue to deceive your husband.

So what did you want from us? Support to decieve your husband? That is not "support" and you won't find that kind of "help" here. The unrepentant wayward wives hang out on gloryb.com with all the other OW.

Bacterial Vaginosis (BV)
Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
Hepatitis, Viral
Herpes, Genital
HIV/AIDS
Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID)
Syphilis
Trichomoniasis
Other STDs

And if you have contracted any of those, HIV included, he's going to think something's amiss when you start spending $50k+ a year just on medication!

He WILL find out one way or another and I am SURE he would rather find it out from you...instead of, say, the neighbor or someone who saw you with OM, or someone else...

What do the initials stand for? WW? WS? OW? OM...etc. This is my first day here.

There are a few men who are unreasonably jealous. Most, however, are good guys who sense a problem with their wife's boundaries (or lack of them) around other men, and are bothered by it, without having anything concrete to point to.

Chances are that you have been causing him pain with your lax boundaries for many years. What you perceived as unreasonable was almost certainly your BH sensing danger. And rightly so.

There just aren't any medals for who can go the most years before cheating.

I DO feel guilty, and I am sorry, and I KNOW it will never happen again. There is no way my hubby would find out unless I tell him. No one saw me with him...I was in another state! I know everyone thinks I should tell him, but doesn't anyone understand why I wouldn't want to??

Here's a list.

*** LINK ***

OM's wife just may discover this adultery one day .... and give your H a call.

WW Wayward Wife
WS Wayward Spouse
OW Other Woman
OM Other Man
NC No Contact

For a more exhaustive list, click here.

Wow, okay. That hurts...

Of course we understand why you wouldn't want to tell...probably better than you do.

Right now, you're fogged out, selfish, entitled, and deep down blaming your BH (Betrayed Husband) for your adultery.

Thing is, some of us have been in your BH's shoes, others have been in your shoes. We have seen amazing stories of recovery. Some saved their marriages. Some did not, but recovered their honor and decency.

No truly happy ending has EVER included deceit.

Your thread has over 100 responses on day one.

Help has been offered.

Get some rest. Come back tomorrow.

Read the BASIC CONCEPTS and HOW TO SURVIVE INFIDELITY.
See the "Most Popular Links ~~~~~~~~~~> off to the right.

30 years of marriage and you berate your husband for his behavior when your behavior in 3 hours/two days trumps whatever he did.
He deserves the truth. He didn't deserve to be cheated on..no matter what his behavior was.

It won't happen- he only has my cell phone number! And I'm the only one who uses my phone...it's pre-paid with no monthly statements. My gosh, you guys make me feel horrible!

I accept no responsibility for your feelings after you've committed adultery and then vow to become a committed lifetime liar.

This adultery phone needs to go.
You need accountability.

What you did was horrible and not telling your husband is horrible...
This goes beyond just saying it won't happen again.....
You have a pre-paid phone that your husband doesn't know about

That's a way to keep contact undetected
You are in territory you know not of..let people help you who have been there.

My husband does know about my phone, he has one of his own. That's why we are the only ones who use our own phones...I really didn't start out to be a cheat

Goldilocks, There is a very good chance your husband will find out from the other mans wife! I made the call and exposed my husbands affair to the unsuspecting husband...he mainly was furious about the lies, even more so than the act itself!Covering it up for so long most likely destroyed their marriage. Had she come clean, his forgiveness would come more readily.

Goldilocks, it's actually worse than you think. Hear me out for a minute while I explain why.

And remember while you're reading that I'm not here to throw rocks at you either... See, I was actually a guy who got into an affair myself.

You said that you'd been in touch with the other man ("OM") every day since October. That means you can't pass this off as just a "mere" one-night (or 2-day) stand. Rather, you allowed yourself to get into a deep emotional affair beforehand. (Just like I did.) That's why it "hurts" (as you said) to not be in contact. You're in withdrawal. Like an addict.

In fact, affairs are exactly like addictions in terms of their brain-chemistry impact. That's why you didn't stop even when you knew it was wrong. That's why you felt a little thrill each time you got a text or an e-mail from him. That's why you chose to allow yourself to be played, as you put it. He never had a gun to your head at all. The only reason you got "played" is because you wanted to get played. You chose it. Own your choices, ma'am.

Now you're counting solely on your own willpower to break the addiction. Solely on your own, because you won't tell anyone who can help provide accountability -- including the 2 people whose knowledge of the affair would be most likely to help prevent it from resuming: The other man's wife, and your husband.

But we know exactly how strong your willpower is. I know. You know. And look where it got you. (And you haven't even changed your cellphone number. because you know that then, the other man cuoldn't call you ever.)

Moreover, aside from your need to shore up your boundaries so that you don't countenance an affair ever again, you obviously felt that you weren't getting needs met in your marriage. So, how's that going to change? How are you going to get your husband to work on the marriage -- that is, on your relationship with one another -- if he doesn't have an honest, true picture of where things stand?

Confessing to my wife (3 years ago tomorrow, in fact) was the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. But I had to do it. I knew that it would come out anyway, because the other woman's husband had found her out. What's your plan if your other man's wife is onto him? Say that maybe she calls your husband with some proof that neither you nor your other man even knows exists. What then? Trust me, you'll come off better with your husband if you go to him yourself with the truth, than if he hears about it from someone else. That'll put you in a better position to try to start building the kind of marriage that you wanted in the first place.

Notice, I'm not appealing to your sense of decency. You don't have any at the moment, or else you'd be off telling your husband what's up instead of pussyfooting around here. Instead, I'm appealing to your fears. You've got a marriage to lose. Potentially a great marriage. I live in my wife's forgiveness today. Be very afraid of what it feels like to live without forgiveness. Because if you don't tell your husband, you'll never get it from him. I know how rotten I feel TODAY, 3 years later, about my affair, even DESPITE having been forgiven for almost that long. Take it from me that you ought to be very afraid of living 3, or 33 more years, waking up every morning knowing that you've NOT been forgiven. Very afraid.

Three years ago, I feared I'd never be able to save my marriage. However, I was glad to have a chance to move out of the "pull" of the affair, and then glad that I quickly staked myself to some accountability (in the form of telling some friends, some leaders in my church, and getting into counseling with my wife ASAP, following the principles in a book called "Surviving An Affair.") This is the kind of stuff you need to be doing ASAP. Right now, you think it can't get any worse, but I'm here to tell you that it sure can, if you try to keep this swept-under-the-rug, and if you try to avoid the temptation of resuming your secret communication with the other man with no one to hold you accountable, and if you try to deceive yourself into thinking that you can rebuild a better marriage on a foundation of perpetual deceit.

The choice is yours.

Goldilocks,

I was in a similar position then yourself, in some ways, when I first stumbled upon MB.

I had been married for 20+ years and for all that time I had never really met my Ws needs, in fact your description of your desperation in your marriage could have been written by my W.

I too did not understand the need for complete honesty in a relationship until I reflected upon what makes most marriages fail, dishonesty, it was a common thread in almost all of the bad marriages I had seen in my lifetime.

What you may find upon confessing to your H is that he has confessions of his own that bear heavily upon him and that are also impediments to your marriage.

God Bless
Gamma

Yes, because you are trying to cover your [censored] and want to trick him. We understand very well.

You're right GloveOil. I have a lot to think about

And that absolves you of all responsibility in the matter, does it? Do you blame "the situation" or "the way things happened" too?

The OM is very likely to tell his wife. Then she will call your husband. Even so, it is immoral to even think you can manipulate your husband into staying married to you. That is manipulative and cruel. You are dangerous to him and your children.

No, it's not. Unless you want to be a self-centered, entitled wife who is too concerned about how SHE feels about being honest. Are you that woman?

Pep recommended sleep. I second the motion.

This whole thing will still be there in the morning. It's not going anywhere.

I didn't either, Goldi. I was the last guy you'd ever have thought would go that way. For cryin' out loud, she was nobody special, just someone who asked me one day to sing a duet with her on the church music team. All it was at first was practicing songs together...

Doesn't matter what your initial intentions were. You can't go back & change it now. You can't go back & right the wrong. Ever.

What you can control is what you do, the choices you make, starting now. You can start doing what's right for your marriage.

Or you can pile wrong on top of wrong and see where that might get ya.

Something for you to think about, alright...

LISTEN to GloveOil.

He is one of the lucky ones.

His wife found out and because he was WILLING to do the work and tell her everything, and so forth...

He HAS DONE THIS BEFORE. If done right you can have a better marriage. But YOU will have to do most of the heavy lifting, starting with confessing!

Goldilocks, did you really read that whole section by Dr. Harley before you continued posting?

Of course everyone understands why you wouldn't want to.

But the fact that we understand that doesn't help you at all, does it?

Please get busy reading the expert's advice. We are just a bunch of strangers on the internet. Persuading a bunch of strangers on the internet of something may make you feel like you won an argument, but it will not help you PUT. OUT. THE. FIRE.

When you are posting without first briefing yourself on what Dr. Harley (an actual marriage counselor and psychologist) has to say, you are simply wasting time, Goldilocks.

You don't have to persuade us that the consequences of your affair are hard. You don't have to persuade us that you are on a hard and painful path. I already said that many posts back up, remember?

Everybody here knows this is hard.

We can help you through it into the region where it's not hard, or we can watch you stand in the hard place and whine how hard it is and never move, while we shake our heads.

One thing's for sure: you will not get out of this without serious expert professional help.

Please read Dr. Harley's entire surviving infidelity section:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html
(There are 29 pages there, you won't be back quickly.)

Then please email Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce and ask if you can get some help on his radio show:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
They will send you the book Surviving an Affair. You need this book. You are in a hard place and need to know how to get out.

While you are waiting, start listening to the show, and see if you can hear any situations that are similar to yours and get some ideas what to do.

Please, listen more and talk less. And start by listening to the expert who has dealt with situations like yours for forty years.

You came asking for help.

You've been given suggestions.

I seriously encourage you to follow all suggestions. Don't let us suggest things for you to do and then you leave them undone.

Get to reading this stuff. Take steps to better your situation.

How do you know this?

What is your plan?

I'm being very serious. Please describe [in detail] your plan to prevent yourself from committing more adultery in the future.

I look forward to reading your answer tomorrow. G'night.

Mrs. W

Hi Goldi-

I know you want to keep this from your BH, but the truth has a way of being found out. You have no control over that.

A family we know were destroyed by the "secret" of an A.

The WH in this M had an A when his kids were young. His BW always had her suspicions and when she confronted her WH, he denied it because he thought that it would "end his M" if he told her the truth.

Fast forward to the youngest child getting married. And then, the truth of his A came out. His BW couldn't recover from the fact that the M she thought she had was all a lie.

Not telling her the truth is what ended his M, not the A.

Okay, okay... And I'm reading Markos... I'm exhausted, completely exhausted.

I know, Goldilocks. Nobody said this is going to be easy or without pain.

Pepperband and Neak are right. Get some rest. Come back tomorrow, finish reading, ask questions about what you read. Send Dr. Harley and Joyce an email about the radio show.

And it hurts...And I know...I'm selfish and I was aware of being selfish while we were making plans to get together. I spent the majority of my life being a wife and mother. Being Unselfish, taking care of my family (our oldest has a doctorate)...on down...good kids, because I gave my life to raising them. One is still at home and I have been totally selfish. My moment of weakness. I know it's an excuse, but I'm tired of being a taken for granted wife.

Good night for now...

And we can help you fix that, but you gotta read the map!

And right now you probably need to get some rest.

So how do you fix that? By telling the truth about who you really are. Why? Because what you are wearing in front of your husband right now is a mask. You are not the person he believes you to be.

Want to heal? Come clean.

For when you wake up:

Here is some reasoning as to why you cannot keep this a secret from my own experience.

My wife had her 1st affair in 2001. It was a workplace affair and the fellow she had the affair with ran in completely different circles from us. in fact, I still live in the same town as him, and even though I keep an eye out, I simply never run into him. My wife confessed her A to a coworker, who encouraged her to end it, but never told me about it. This lady has since passed away. between 2001 and 2007, my wife kept this secret.

She ended her affair after only 3 months with this man. She broke it off, and never went back to him. But here's the thing... She swore it would never happen again but she couldn't escape the guilt. It ate away at her.

Life went on for me and I thought things were mostly fine. Even great at times. But guess what? She knew what she was and could never escape it. Then in 07, another man came along and pursued her. He chased hard too. And guess what? Her guilt returned in force... Her reasoning at the time? "well, I'm already trash, I might as well act like it."

What happened was she ended up in another affair, much worse and much longer than the previous one. 10 months.

I caught them. It was an out of town work affair. Caught them on a fluke actually. Her train was on time and I decided to meet her at the station on a whim. Called her to tell her where I was and she told me the train was late, don't wait. Guess what? I was standing in front of her train looking at it. She was with the OM.

He ditched her and I caught them. Told his wife too. That's when I found out about the other affair. Thing is, you just don't know who saw you. Who knows what will happen. Maybe someone will catch him in another affair and he'll get caught and the truth will come out. Maybe someone saw you and will move to your town and you will get recognized.

Secret affairs are never secret. My brother's affair was with a woman from another state and thanks to google, he got busted.

Expose this to your H before someone else does. It will go much better for you.

CV

Goldilocks, You have to tell your husband. You say you are not going to tell him because you don't want to burden with your guilt. In reality you are taking away his self determination and his right to choose. Its like slavery. Your husband is staying under false assumptions. You think that taking away your husbands freedom is sparing him some kind of burden. Typical, a cheater will always make choices for their spouses (but like this situation, it is done for completely selfish reasons).

Good morning, Goldilocks. I hope you were able to get some rest.

Again I repeat my advice that before posting again on here you finish reading Dr. Harley's articles on infidelity and contact the radio show. I want you to understand the map out of here.

Thank you Markos, I will. I have to get to work right now..

I've read the information, I think I am still too emotional to tell him. Somewhere I saw that it takes a few weeks or more for that to get better. I think I need to wait until I feel more in control of myself. It's too much right now!!

Are there ANY men here who wouldn't want to know if their wife was unfaithful?? You all would WANT to know????

So you'll arrogate the right to withhold this information from him?

Who gives you the right?

That's not just a rhetorical question, Goldilocks. What's your answer? Who gives you the right?

Pepperband once said, "It's the lies that are the real poison arrows."

As a BS, I cannot tell you how true this is. All of the lies and deception hurt as much, if not more, than the actual affair. EVERY DAY you do not tell him is a lie and compounds the hurt and pain you will cause him.

Please tell him the truth. Today.

As a BS, I gotta tell you, this sounds like a load of crap.

If you tell your BH later down the road that this is the reason you withheld the truth from him, it is going to sound like crap to him as well...

There is NO GOOD reason to withhold the truth from him. None.

No, it doesn't take a few weeks to tell him. These are just excuses to avoid doing the right thing. It will be emotional no matter when you tell him. But he will be more emotional - and more resentful - the longer you wait. Every day you don't tell him is another lie added to the mix.

And of course betrayed spouses want to be told. No one wants to be lied to about their lives.

You need to go tell him, Golilocks. Tell him today. Don't make this worse by putting it off.

Some of us here experienced having our spouses engage in affairs. Good luck finding any one here who wishes they'd been kept in the dark, deceived, a single day longer.

Some of us have engaged in affairs. Good luck finding any one of us who'd wish to be kept in the dark, lied to, if the tables were turned on us one day.

All of us have survived affairs in one way or another, even if the marriages did not. And many of our marriages have survived and even prospered. You and your husband can, too. But without complete truth, your marriage will never be more than what it is now.

That is like asking if people WANT to get an overdraft notice from the bank. Of course, no one WANTS to get such a notice, but they are grateful because not knowing would be even worse.

Betrayed spouses are always upset, but they are grateful that they know the truth. As long as they know the truth they can work on the problem and make informed decisions. Many betrayed spouses do not choose to stay married to a cheater and they cannot take that option if they don't know the truth.

Not only did I want to know, I wanted to know EVERYTHING. And I had that right, because what a WS gives away in adultery was not theirs to give.

If the entire truth had not been given to me, I would not be here posting as a husband in a recovering marriage. I would be posting as a divorced father of 3.

And, if you think your husband doesn't have suspicions about your behavior, you would be exactly wrong.

Confess, confess fully, and do it now. You are wasting time that could be going towards your recovery.

Yes, it's an excuse. You know that, which is good. The problem is that you chose to have sex with another man. How do you think that solved the issue of your feeling like a 'taken for granted wife'? How did that 'fix' the problem?

It didn't, did it. So eliminate this excuse. It's invalid.

Stop trying to weasel out of doing what you know is right, Goldi. What the men on this site would want means nothing. If some guy in outer Mongolia told you he didn't want to know his wife was wallowing with another man, would you feel that gave you 'permission' to continue lying to your husband? Because that's what you're doing. You're lying to him, pretending to be the faithful wife when you are anything BUT that.

You can change this. You can look in the mirror and see a (remorseful) faithful wife. I sense that you are a good person, or you wouldn't be here. But I also sense that you are selfish and spoiled, and will avoid anything that may not serve you in the short term.

Time to grow up, Goldi.

Oh, stop it. Your attempt at emotional fragility won't fly here. You're 'too emotional to tell him' = you're too selfish to tell him. I doubt that you saw anything that told you to wait 'a few weeks or more for that to get better.' How ridiculous.

Are you trying to play us? Because that won't work here, just so you know.

No, I just do not want to tell him. I'm sorry...maybe he deserves to know as you all put it. I will never do anything close to this again, and I will be a better wife to him...I'm sure that's wrong too...

Good luck with that. When he divorces you for being a cheat and a liar, because he WILL find out... Too bad.

Adios

No one here is going to support you in tricking your husband. That is the wrong thing to do and if that is your goal, you are in the wrong place.

There is an illness in the room because a wife chooses to ignore it.
A little trickle truth about once every 5 years for over 30 years.

The germs still live because the dosage of truth has never been fully given.

If you are not here to save your marriage, then what did you need?

You were a coward when you cheated because instead of telling your husband how unhappy you were and try to fix your marriage you hid from your problems in another married mans bed.

And you carry on being a coward because you want to hide and lie to your family instead of having the courage to do what is right.

I don't have any respect or interest in helping people who choose to lie knowing full well what they are doing is wrong.

That's all I have to say to you gold.

I'm out.

H.E. double toothpicks NO!!! Why would i ever want to live in deception and lies. You have no right to keep this horrible thing from him. It's worse than not telling a mom their kid died.

CV

This is so true. One of the massive things people overlook is history. You can make this a smaller blip in your history with him or a long one. Longer disasters have less chance of recovery IMO.

Nothing wrong with being a better wife..Everything wrong with being a lying, cheating wife who will continue to lie to her husband.
How can you be a better wife..when you are not trying to be a better person?
Do you honestly believe you can be a better wife..knowing full well you lied and cheated and continue to hide it from the one you want to be better to?

A better wife is an honest wife. A wife who won't do it again is an honest and open wife, one who places her heart in her Husband's hands and remains accountable. One who works on eliminating the conditions for the A. All you are doing right now is setting yourself up for something far worse.

**edit**

oh, never mind...

Interesting point. What do you want to do, Goldi - whine on a website, or recover your marriage?

My kids try these kinds of dumb excuses on me all the time. It doesn't work with them, either.

"Dear child, I already told you to go to bed. You have lost your computer time tomorrow."

"WHAT??? I was just sitting here reading my English book. Don't you want me to be EDUCATED????????"

Basically, what you're saying is:

"Something is wrong with all you people for thinking I should tell. I won't ever do it again, because except for that one little time where we slipped about 6 inches too close, I've been good! I'll be nice to my BH, so nice that it won't matter if I keep lying to him for decades. DON'T YOU WANT ME TO BE NICE TO MY HUSBAND????????????"

Sorry, hon. It's a little too late to be nice to him. You're 6 inches and a bunch of texts past nice already.

Goldi,

I agree with the readers who have said that lying is insidious and destructive to your marriage. Its much easier to forgive a repentant person who confesses than one who says they're sorry only after they're caught. Plus, your spouse will have so much more trust during recovery. You know this is true. You came here to fix this, and there are some wise people telling you to come clean and let the truth set you free. Sure, its hard facing surgery without anesthetic, but better to endure the pain than lose your life. Save your marriage today! Grow up, listen, and act!

And I said after reading all of those pages (did you read all 29?), come back with questions about it. What questions do you have?

Also, did you email Dr. Harley and Joyce, yet?


Are you referring to something you read from Dr. Harley?

Why would you say something like this, when you know that it's a ridiculous thing to say?

Don't waste your energy being obnoxious with people who are trying to help you, Goldi.

When are you going to tell your husband what you've done to him and your marriage?

You said something almost identical to the above last night, and I asked you a question about it -- I will ask again:

How do you know you "will never do anything like this again"? How are you so sure? Do you have a plan?

What is your plan?

Hint: You MUST have a plan [and HONESTY has to be a part of it] -- Willpower is very unreliable -- you've already proven that, yes?

Mrs. W

Lets remove your minimizing word "maybe". He does deserve to know the truth. And as long as you are in this lie....the affair will have power over you and complete power over him. Not very loving.

I told him last night. I don't want to talk about it yet. I just want to sincerely thank the people who truly have helped me. The bitter hateful women and men here...I wish you love and forgiveness in your lives as well.

Yes I did something horribly stupid, and with someone else's husband, I'm not making excuses for myself. But I didn't force myself on him either. He is the one who pursued me relentlessly. Telling me EVERYTHING I wanted to hear. Etc..etc. And I did allow myself to get caught up in it. Mrs. Wondering...I made a CHOICE this time. That's how I know it will never happen again. Men have come on to me my whole life, hubby's friends, co-workers, neighbors...whoever. I HAVE NEVER BEFORE DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS, AND IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. Because it was a choice I made. And I am sorry. And I am SORRY it was with a married man, but he also made his own choices. It's something I will have to live with the rest of my life.
But the bitter, hateful people here, try showing the next person some love, possibly some understanding, or don't say anything at all. YOUR spouses who have cheated are human, and no one on earth is perfect. I can imagine you have done something wrong once or twice in your lives too.

Stop thinking about yourself for just a moment and put on your logical-thinking cap.

Do you think your husband wasn't as frustrated in your marriage as were you? Do you believe he wasn't tuned in to the tensions, resentments, and etcetera?

I assure you, he felt the same way as you did about your marriage. Here's where it gets interesting: he's keenly aware that something happened last October. He sensed a big change. Suddenly, he was relieved of the pressure to meet your emotional needs because you started having them met elsewhere. He felt this as surely as if a weight was lifted off of his back.

He's noted your odd behavior over the last several months and is very curious about what's going on with you. His radar has been switched to terrain-mapping mode and he's reading all the fine detail he's getting from your reflections.

He will note a major swing in your emotional make-up following your "trip." He'll again, see a major change in your interactions with him. He's going to become quite alarmed at the the changes in you that have been occurring over the last 3 months, and he's going to start putting together the puzzle. He will figure this out. If he's like me, he's sitting there with a smile on his face, offering you a cup of coffee while, when you're not around, he's diligently straining through records to rebuild the last 3 months of your life.

You and the other adulterous liar think you're very smart, that you covered all the bases, and that you completely covered your tracks, but I assure you: you missed something. And it will be found. Either your husband or the man-swine's wife will put it together, and it will blow up in your face.

Your husband will be deeply hurt and saddened by the physical aspects of your adultery. It will change the way he looks at you, but (and I may catch some flack for this), it is a relatively less-severe wound to heal.

When your husband reflects on your ability to deceive him, to establish, meticulously structure, and maintain a secret life for an extended period of time while doing his laundry, going out to dinner, making love to him, and cozily nestling in the financial, physical, and emotional support he provides for you, he's going to be dramatically traumatized.

This is what will wrench his gut closed like a vice, causing him to drop weight at an alarming rate. This is what will cause him to startle awake and jump out of bed multiple times in the middle of the night. This is what will cause him to spontaneously burst into tears, and maybe even collapse to the floor. This is what will make him sit around in a mind-numbed haze for anywhere from a few weeks to a few months.

Your lies are the real betrayal, and there is none worse in humanity.

And the longer the lie persists, the more pronounced will be the impact.

Appropriate, the screen-name you chose, as it's evident you still reside in a fairy-tale (yeah, baby-bear's bed was JUST RIGHT, wasn't it . . .). Your marriage is over. You destroyed it. It's done, and you can't undo it. If you have any hope of building a new one with the man you now call your husband, you MUST tell him about your adulterous affair.

Do it now.

No my marriage isn't over.

And I chose "Goldilocks" because I have blonde hair.

I hope no one rakes you over the coals for the mistakes you have made in your life.

Considering the degree to which you're going to make excuses for what you did, and to insult people who've rightfully accosted you for knowingly and willfully committing a crime against innocents, some for whom you had a responsibility for extraordinary care, I'm not sure I believe you told your husband.

If you did, I recommend that he come to the MB web site and establish a thread for himself, so the veterans here can guide him through the MB program and aid him in his healing.

You can cut the self-pity, drama queen act sister. You've been treated better here than you deserve.

EDIT: If I were caught living a life of lies specifically designed to deceive and hurt my wife for the sole purpose of engaging in selfish, gratuitous behavior, I would hope to be "raked over the coals," and would feel lucky if that were the only repercussions.

The hard part hasn't even started yet.

Goldilocks,

I've been married for almost 23 years. We have recovered our marriage from 2 of my wife's affairs. We are still working on improving our marriage. My wife coming clean and doing the hard work was the best thing she ever did for us. No, neither of us did everything right (read my link at the bottom of my signature).

She made a choice too. Otherwise it would have been rape and not an affair. We are all human, and that is the point. we are not base animals. Now that you have confessed to your Husband, are you ready to get to work on saving your marriage? Many here have done it. We've been where you were, or in similar places.

CV

Yes, I did tell my husband. I'm not going to share what happened because of people like yourself. It's no one else's business, your criticism doesn't help solve anything. I'm not going to waste my time defending myself. My God, what do you want, blood?

Except you came here. You asked for advice. Do you want to heal your marriage? Did you expect to come onto a recovery forum and get a pat on the back and someone to say "there there, dear?"

Goldilocks, we WANT your marriage to be better, we WANT you to succeed. But you have to be willing to do the hard work of it.

No one here's been bitter or hateful toward you, Goldilocks.

"Bitter" and "hateful" is what we do when we lie to & deceive our spouses. (And remember that I'm speaking to you here as someone who did exactly that.)

"Bitter" and "hateful" is what it is when we try to maintain a cover-up, and carry on the deception, to serve our own selfish wants & fears; when we deny our spouses the honesty we promised them on the day we married them.

"Bitter" and "hateful" is what it is when we try to justify this kind of conduct toward others whom we profess to love.

"Bitter" and "hateful" is what it is when we make these false justifications not for anyone else's benefit, but to selfishly spare ourselves from the consequences of our misconduct.

Trying to steer someone away from that path isn't bitter & it isn't hateful.

It's bitter and hateful to lash out at people who are trying to help you and trying to show compassion for your husband.

You're not going to get anyone's skin here by having a tantrum, the way an addict has a tantrum when she can't get her fix. We've seen it all before.

If on the other hand, you're serious & you have questions about recovering a marriage, ask. At this stage, we know more about the right & wrong ways to go about it than you do.

But it has to be done on a basis of honesty. Most importantly, honesty toward your husband.

This sort of thing is obvious to most of us when we're 5 years old. Somehow, some of us forget about honesty somewhere along the way. Even to the point where we sometimes don't see how ridiculous we look when we've been living a lie, then hear people counseling us to start being honest, and we call that "bitter" or "hateful."

5 years from now, no poster here will be ashamed for recommending honesty to people who are living lies. But those who are fortunate enough to recover their honesty, will (or ought to be) deeply ashamed for calling those posters "bitter" or "hateful".

Yes, Goldilocks, you have much to think about. Ask me questions if you like. If you're serious about your marriage, that is.

She's lying...

"No my marriage isn't over."

"And I chose "Goldilocks" because I have blonde hair."

This statement along with men always hiting on you makes me think you have a extremely high opion of your self, conduct yourself in ways that attract attention (flirt) are really good looking, any or all three.

"I hope no one rakes you over the coals for the mistakes you have made in your life."

You are not being singled out here. You are not being treated harsh. You are being push to do the right thing. It's harsh to hear because you are being told to do things that you don't want to do.

I know this is wrong, but fogged out-i-ness makes me giggle sometimes.

The wise people here told you what to do to find a path of love and forgiveness. We don't need wishes from you to get there- and if you think we're bitter and hateful for trying to help you, all I can say is, good luck with that.

Yup. My radar tells me the same thing. If she actually told him- she would be more focused on his reaction, and less on sticking it to the members here.

A mistake is forgetting to carry the tens in a math problem.

Sleeping with someone else's spouse is a choice.

Just to clarify.

I do want a better marriage. Of course I do. I was mentally and physically abused by my step-dad the last half of my childhood. I lived through hell. I told myself when I was teenager that my kids would never have a stepfather. It's hard for me to share myself with people, because I don't trust people. I have never had counseling of any kind, it's been a rough road I have gone down alone. My husband has never been very supportive of me. He didn't even go with me to my mom's funeral. She died from pancreatic cancer 10 years ago next month. I took care of her for almost two years, and he would tell me how I was taking away from my family to be with her and take her to her chemo treatments etc. By the time she died I was totally used up. Then with two kids grown or almost grown, I got pregnant unexpectedly and have an almost seven year old now. Life is more than strange, funny, and always changing. I was still burned out when I had a new baby to take care of. There is no excuses for what I did. I'm scum, and not the angel my friends think I am. This might end up being what we needed to change our home life and make it better for our little one. We are also grandparents. My husband wants us together. My huge mistake I will pay for the rest of my life. And I will be a better wife. Call me a drama queen or whatever you want. It's not the worst I've lived through.

Goldilocks, you have a real victim complex, don't you? Instead of pimping sympathy for yourself, how about telling your husband the truth? And then sending him here so we can help him?

What you have done to your husband is as traumatic as rape, assualt or the death of a child. So lose the self pity and go do the right thing for your husband.

You are not the victim, lady.

We have people here in DIRE STRAITS who are really serious about saving their marriages. People who are not lying drama queens, who are the victims of adultery. You are taking valuable time and attention away from people who are really serious about saving their marriages.

Do you realize that?

I didn't need to read any farther than this to know you are still an unremorseful wayward.

We may be able to help your husband. Let him know that we'd love to see him come here and post.

ETA: Good job, telling your husband. You did the right thing.

Goldi, its obvious you lied about telling your husband, so quit embarrassing yourself.

If you did tell him you are the most heartless b*tch I have ever seen in my 10 years on this forum. Imagine this: you just give your husband the most horrible news of his life. What you have told him is more traumatic than telling him his child was killed. And you not only blow it off, but you are on here the next morning trying to pimp sympathy for yourself.

People here WANT to help you. But you can't be helped unless you GET HONEST. Lying to us is no more productive than lying to your husband.

And the bad thing about lying here is that we can immediately see through you.

You don't need to tell us a word, Goldi. You don't need to ever post here again. We're not making you do anything. What gives you that idea? And what in the world do I have to be bitter about? I've got the marriage I've always wanted.

You know we're here anytime you need help.

Goldi,

It is better to admit your mistakes and identify your unmet needs to your husband before he finds out on his own. If you don't tell him and he finds out on his own he will not believe you when you say you felt guilty about it, he will not believe you when you say that you want to spend the rest of your life with him. It will take longer for you to recover if he finds out on his own. People who are remorseful for what they have done can admit their mistakes and are willing to do whatever it takes to fix the problem. If he finds out, he may think you're just sorry you got caught and have just been using him for FS, DS, and money which will lead to immense resentment. I'm telling you this as a betrayed husband. I was not meeting my wife's needs, but she never told me I wasn't. Now I feel like I don't know what's going inside her head because I discovered her affairs....one at a time. I feel like she was shopping for a better husband. You obviously feel guilty, confess to him everything so he believes you.....every little detail he asks, and then fix it. You have all the tools you need in this forum and on this website. I'll pray for you that he stays and works on the marriage.

I struck all the stuff that is immaterial to your situation.

As long as you remain in a state of denial and refuse to accept responsibility for your actions you will remain an adulterous liar. You call that scum, I call it liar. Either will do.

You CAN change that, though. IF you take the steps to do so. The first would be to confess the A to your H.

I will be sure and let you know if anyone matching this description shows up to post on your thread.

Nope, not yet.










Nope, not yet.

Of course she is--it was the easy way out and there have been no hysterical declarations otherwise.

Ditto!

goldi, when my STBXWH was posting here, he did the EXACT same things you are doing now when he was told he needed to tell me the truth (accused posters of being resentful, hating him, he talked about his childhood, etc). No joking.

These tactics won't work here. We can tell when we are being lied to/gaslit from a mile away.

Please stop.

Did goldine even read the theme of this website and forum before posting??

It's called MARRIAGE BUILDERS and SURVIVING AN AFFAIR.

People are here to help build strong marriages that's why it isn't called CREATE A GOOD MARRIAGE OUT OF THIN AIR or even GET OVER AND HIDE YOUR AFFAIR.

I don't know of a single good marriage that is built on lies nor do I know of many people who survive an affair if the second person in the marriage doesent know there is an affair going on.

Why do people like goldie come to this site the play victim when even the tilte gives you a clear clue as to the morals of this board.

Ps Godie I have had a ton of 2x4 s here and comments that I found hurtful but it was FOR my best interest and for my marriage. Telling your H is the first of many tough things YOU will have to do to save your marriage if you can't even take the first step without bringing out the Victim card then I don't see much hope for you or your marriage. Good luck.

**edit** Almost seems like she's yanking our chain. But then again, one can't expect rationale thinking from someone who's deep in the fog. Sorry for taking shots, Goldi, but you are inviting them.

Goldi, it seems to me you came here seeking validation more than you are seeking good medicine for your marriage. If that is the case, you're in the wrong place. When we make mistakes there are consequences we face that are painful, and I really wish I weren't writing this from experience. To repair your marriage, BOTH you and your husband need to adopt the Marriage Builder (MB) principles and work together to restore romantic love in your lives. But first you will need to go through a difficult recovery period. You have both made big withdrawals in your marriage--you especially because of your adultery--and now its time to pay the bills or go bankrupt. You will suffer pain no matter which course of action you choose, but we believe your best path is marriage recovery based on the MB principles. This requires honesty, courage, and immense intestinal and moral fortitude. We are hoping you can come to terms with this and do what is best for your husband, children, and yourself. We want you to succeed.

Affairs remind me of Buddha's Four Noble Truths, which are:

1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the path of wisdom, morality, and meditation and prayer.

When we are foolish, we make room for desires that are fleeting and not long lasting, and we let go of deep, substantive important things that bring us true, meaningful, and deeply rooted happiness.

Goldi ~ Everyone who commits adultery makes a choice to do so, that goes without saying -- What is your plan to prevent yourself from making the wrong choice again? There are many suave men out there that can "say all the right things" to you again -- What will make the next time different?

*Hint: There should not be a next time -- YOU are in control of who is given the OPPORTUNITY to speak to you. You must take EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to keep yourself away from temptation.

Your plan must be comprehensive and must include your husband -- which means he must know the truth, Goldi.




Well my goodness -- Has your husband THANKED you yet for being the family HERO? [/end sarcasm] Sorry, but my word! Goldi, that was bad. Please do not say anything like this to your husband when you tell him what you've done -- that is a terribly cruel thing to say. My prayer is that the two of you make it IN SPITE of what you've done -- certainly NOT because of what you've done...



And no one here wants "blood" -- we'd love to see humility -- A humble heart, Goldi -- that's what it will take if your marriage is to survive this.

Mrs. W

The blood has already been spilled.

We want you to start cleaning up what you've done, not put a throw rug over the mess to try and hide it.

I have not posted here in nearly 3 years.

Lady, you take the cake. You claim not to make excuses for yourself, then proceed to do just that.

I'm a straight shooter and blunt. The OM didn't force you to drop your pants and jump into bed. You made a CHOICE to do that.

So quit your whining, pull up your big girls panties, woman up and do what needs to be done. Do the hard work and make your marriage better.

Quit attacking the people here for trying to help you. They didn't come looking for you, you came to them. Get off the "it's all about me" kick, it ain't.

Nope, not yet.

:::snort::: You crack me up, Neak.

Likewise, MB!

Affairs remind me of Buddha's Four Noble Truths, which are:

1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the path of wisdom, morality, and meditation and prayer.

When we are foolish, we make room for desires that are fleeting and not long lasting, and we let go of deep, substantive important things that bring us true, meaningful, and deeply rooted happiness.


Thank you for this.

All I'm going to say is that it's hard to find the words to say how it feels to blow 30 years of marriage. I was stupid and selfish. I am so sorry, you can't believe. I feel like a piece of crap. Okay, and I'm beginning to see why some of you have hit me with the 2x4's.I did want someone to tell me it was okay to do what I did. But it wasn't, What can I do to make it better? There is nothing. I'm going to not post anymore. I'm going to take care of my life with my husband.

Why do you continue to shoot yourself in the foot? You are your own best enemy, Goldi.

The LAST thing you should do at this point is leave this site. Have you done any reading here at all? Start by getting over this victim mentality thing you've got going on. It's not working for you.

Start reading here.

Not that you're starting to defog you want to leave?

Unbelievable.

Now you understand the 2x4, that you knew in the end you were never going to be told what you did was justified. Though hang around and learn how to repair the damage.

You asked what can you do to make it better. Then you answered nothing.

We'll you're batting a thousand 1.000. Because you are being wrong again. We want to give you and your BH the tools to repair the damage.

You are still letting yourself be confused with you never being able to undo doing the OM with repairing the damage.

Though you can learn how to repair the damage here. And so can your BH. Have you told your BH about MB?

Goldilocks,

I can understand the pain of being sexually and mentally abused. My wife did this to me 2x, once for 3 months and again years later for 10 months with her 2 affairs. Not the same I know, but similar. My wife also knows what it's like to be abused. She was abused sexually by 2 uncles when she was a child, and grew up in a verbally abusive home under an alcoholic father. Look for her post here. She reads but rarely posts. Her name here is grace4me. I have asked her to post to you here.

What you say about yourself is true. You are not the person your friends and family think. What you did was scummy. However, you did land in the right place to make some real lasting changes, to become so much more than you have been.

Trust me, there is nothing good resulting from the affair. Any good that may come from it will be incidental. Can you please share with us what your husband's reaction was?

Those of us who are formerly betrayed husbands understand what it feels like and can help you understand better why you need to work here.

CV

Why would you want to leave someplace with the answers for how to go about repairing what you damaged?

Why would you want to stop listening to people who know what it's like to live through infidelity, and still recover our marriages?

Well, it's your choice.

Well, those are 4 noble half-truths, epistemological arrogance... Here are 4 more noble truths:

1. Man brought suffering into the world through his own actions to desire to be like God.

2. Suffering comes from the heart of man because man is at war with God and his neighbor

3. Suffering ceases when we lay down our idols of self and seek God 1st and the good of our neighbor second

4: Freedom from suffering is possible in surrendering to God, and through faith we ask for wisdom from God who gives to those who ask, abundantly.

When we are foolish, we show what is really in our hearts and minds, a shallow desire to exalt ourselves above God and our fellow man, but let no man think more of himself than he ought. Real contentment is found not within ourselves, but from outside... It comes from God the Father, who in the right time sent his son to redeem us from ourselves, the world around us and the devil. In this there is healing, joy and peace, because God in sending his son has torn down the wall of enmity between man and man and man and God (eph.2). (sermon over)

Now as far as your last paragraph... I understand your guilt and desperation. You CAN make it better with hard work. There are good solid principles here at MB that can be applied to your situation that can bring healing to your broken marriage. You can be happier than you ever thought possible. Keep posting. You need to.

Otherwise, in what way are you going to take care of your life with your husband? You haven't been able to do it so far. You will need help along the way. Providentially, you ended up here. Make use of it.

CV

I suspect Goldi is beginning to appreciate that this isn't going to be a quick fix. The hard work has just begun. And it's not going to feel good. Goldi doesn't appear to be comfortable in that sort of situation.

Goldi, you need to brace yourself, grit your teeth and get to work. Drop the abrasive "Memememe" attitude - if it's annoying to us, it's probably unbearable for your poor husband.

What have you read on this site? Have you read the link I posted to you? That will barely crack the surface of recovery. You have much to do.

The posters who are being the hardest on you may well become your lifelines and your best 'friends'. We have no emotional investment in you one way or the other, so you can rest assured that our advice to you is unvarnished by any ulterior motives. We want to help you save your marriage. Simple enough?

Now. Tell us about your disclosure of the affair to your husband. What happened?

Hi Goldi, I'm the woman who has the pleasure of being married to CelticVoyager. I don't post often...it's not my forte, but I wanted to ask you a simple question. What is it that you hope to accomplish by posting here on MB?

I and others here have a lot to offer to someone in your situation, but it's really hard to see what it is you're looking for.

I understand a lot of what you're saying. I've been where you are now. I have the experience of both being a cheater who kept the secret and tried to be a "good wife", as well as being a cheater who came clean and actually became a good wife.

If I could understand why it is that you're here then I could talk with you about it, but your posts are not clear or direct. If you could try to put aside your aggravation and make a clear, concise post about what it is you are trying to accomplish, maybe this could get somewhere productive.

I hope you can do this...I will watch for your post.

There is something you and your husband can do to make it better. Learn and apply the principles of MB. Not posting here is fine if you get help from the Harleys, read their literature, and follow through on their wisdom. However, I believe you will find that this forum will serve you well if you stick around. I think it already has if you've really already told your husband. Have you? If you did, what happened?

You're in an internal conflict right now. You're struggling with taking the easy way out--deceit and divorce--or working through this challenge-of-a-lifetime through hard work, painful sacrifice, and honesty. Your current internal struggle reminds me of the one I faced when I had an emotional affair. I knew it was wrong, and I felt like a teenager giving God the middle finger. I did it anyway. However, God didn't leave me. During this very dark time in my life I found myself going to church even though I didn't want to be there. I would look at my watch and couldn't wait for Mass to finish. I felt hypocritical and completely disengaged there. It seemed at the time that I got nothing out of it. However, deep down I think I went because I knew if I quit going I'd fall into a deep chasm that I wouldn't be able to climb back out of. I realize now that by attending Mass I was clinging to my last vestige of hope and decency, and in hindsight, that was a critical step in recovering from my mistake.

Now that my fog has lifted, I'm grateful for my decision to not give up my faith. It saved me. I think that's why you're here too, Goldi. I sense you want to do the right thing, but you are looking to muster the courage.

The people here are straightforward and honest. They are giving you what you need right now: tough love. Accept their wisdom with gratitude. It will make all the difference whether or not your marriage survives this affair.

Goldilocks,

yes me and yes I did question your intentions on here and if you are real, okay. I was just perusing some posts and could not believe that you were real with your responses. I found my post was "edited" so you probably do no know what I am talking about ...*s* Since you have stayed this long even tho you are adamant about your position I have to assume that you are feeling very uncertain on how to proceed in attemptiong to recincile with you H for what you did and how to preserve your M.

"We have no emotional investment in you one way or the other,"..per marital. I disagree with her. Yes, I do have an emotional investment in you from the standpoint that what is hurting for one hurts the other or what the other is doing wrong hurts the other. Not just from the standpoint of human beings trying to live together with some sort of social law, but that we are all brothers and sisters under the love of God. I know, pretty trite, but is my conviction.

I cannot add to what those vets here at Marriage Builders have already advised you because I am not a veteran of this. What I can do is parlay their concern for others with mine. I realize after reading your last few posts that you may have been a victiim os sexual abuse. As terrible as that is I would like to direct your attention to look at the Internet Chicago Tribune story today about the young woman who needs new lungs to survive, and her feeling about her chances of survival and what she feels. She is not bitter for what happened to her, she is simply hopeful. Her faith and hope simply trumps your attempts at self-pity and deception! This is not Marriage Builders advice, it is my veiw soly, but sometimes I feel even the most adverse of heart need some enlightenment of what others go thru.

Tom

Goldilocks,

By the way, blonds are not the most attractive women in the world - have dated brunettes as well before I was married - but the most exciting woman in the world to me happens to be a redhead - my wife.

Tom

I'm here, I'm still reading. I will come back and answer your questions, I'm too emotional and just want to cry right now. The comments like the last one from Tom is so far removed from my feelings right now, I need a break.

Celticvoyager, does God forgive people like me?

Yes, but with REPENTENCE. With true repentence, God does forgive. Repentence does not involve lying to your victims, though. That is not true repentence, that is an attempt to sweep your deed under the rug.

Yea he does, more than you or I could ever understand. It's not just that tho. in my belief it is that we have to disclose to the other person we have offended, our offenses, no matter they they are, then simply yes in the terms of how I believe.

YES

John 8:1-11 NIV

but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Emphasis on "leave your life of sin."

I posted from my phone and couldn't get to the PC quick enough to edit/add. You beat me too it. Thank you Melody.

The Apostle Paul had a lot of friends in Corinth that he had to write a letter of chastisement to. I hurt him and them, but just for a while:

2 Corinthians 7:8-10

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it�I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while� 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Although the anonymity of the internet makes it easier to do, most people do not enjoy having to correct anyone. But, if hearing the correction causes you to have godly sorrow, then you are not hurt but helped by it.

The key is godly sorrow. Sorry to God for what you did because it was wrong before him. Not because you got caught, not because you have lost anything, not even because you hurt another. That type of worldly sorrow leaves us in the same state with God as we started, which is dead in sin. Godly sorrow is because you know you sinned before God. That sorrow leads to a changed relationship with God, brings life in forgiveness.

By you coming here, I suspect you were feeling this and maybe didn't know it. Remember this, just as you corrected your children because you loved them, God will correct you if you listen. To not correct us would mean he didn't love us.

His forgiveness is there for all, if they have godly sorrow that leads to repentance.

A lot of what happens now depends on how you accept this.

Yes goldilocks, He does. He even forgives people like **ME**. But here's the thing... Forgiveness requires a certain response on your part... To live openly and honestly before God and your husband. Grace is undeserved and free to us, but it's not cheap. It cost Christ his life.

I was just thinking about 2 verses this morning that apply to your situation...

1 john 1:9, the apostle tells us that if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness,



and in James 5 James tells us that we are to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we can be healed...

In marriage builders terms, what this means is exposure... Confessing your fault fully to your husband. All the gory difficult details... Being completely open and honest.

If you have come clean already, you know right now that he is crushed, right? It will take your husband a while to forgive you once you've confessed to him. That's good and natural. He shouldn't forgive you right away. You will have to demonstrate that you are truly repentant and lay down a solid track record of humility and honesty before him.

Likely, you will also have to work to provide just compensation to him for what you've done.

But before that, you need to examine the conditions that led to your affair, eliminate them, put in place extraordinary precautions, and make sure that you have exposed this to friends and family so they can help you recover by holding you accountable.

CV

Goldilocks, did you email Dr. Harley and Joyce, yet?

I'm glad you got this question answered, Goldi, since you don't appear to know about the basic tenets of the Bible.

So now that you've confirmed that God does, indeed, forgive sin, can you tell us what happened when you disclosed your affair to your husband?

Holy Cow!
GL ~
I've been lurking/posting here for a while...
And, I must say,
Your ability to deflect & procrastinate and justify & rationalize is profound...
Where I come from, you are what we call:
"Slicker'n Snot"!
and/or
"Dumb like a fox"!
Gosh! I hope I don't get in trouble for saying that first one...
Anyway, it's time like this that I am happy to be a brunette!!!
Honestly, though, I do hope you will actually "join" the MB Team and embrace every single little itty bitty teeny weeny jot & tittle of the awesome pearls of advice you have been given...
When you add up all of those little itty bitty teeny weeny jot & tittle of awesome pearls of advice you have been given, you will have reaped a gazillion dollars worth of information!
I think the vets here have gone way above and beyond the call of duty in extending grace to you by continuing to encourage you to do what is right!
I'm praying for you...
P.S. BTW ~ Jesus also tells us not to cast our pearls before swine to be trampled...

Originally Posted by Goldilocks

Celticvoyager, does God forgive people like me?

God extends His forgiveness to you in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ...
Through Christ's death, burial and resurrection, He provides the path for anyone who will trust Him as their Savior...
ANY ONE...
That includes you!
There is one and only ONE sin that God will not forgive...
U-N-B-E-L-I-E-F . . .

Yes, in regards to sharing the gospel. Scripture also says that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.

I know I will hang here a little longer and see what happens.

Just to piggy back off of MMMherbs post here:


2Co 7:7-8 and not only by his coming but also by the comfort with which he was comforted by you, as he told us of your longing, your mourning, your zeal for me, so that I rejoiced still more. (8) For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it--though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. (9) As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.



As Paul begins his discourse, it is clear that his attitude was that of bringing the offending party or parties to a state of repentance, and though he was grieved over the need to speak to them in harsh words, he is glad for the benefits it produced. The letter, though not written in the tone and spirit Paul may have desired, nonetheless produced profitable results for its readers. In essence, Paul is saying that even though he is saddened that he had to write in the manner he did, he rejoices over the fruit that it has borne and this in itself is cause for rejoicing.

It is clear that Paul has discipline in mind as he speaks to the Corinthians. Though he was saddened by the fact he had to admonish and rebuke, he saw the necessity of it as well as the subsequent fruit. Paul�s admonition brought what he describes as, a godly grief and as such says they suffered no loss. That is, no damage was done to their souls as a result of the rebukes. What Paul is rejoicing in then is what the puritans refer to as a �true evangelical repentance�, that is a lasting repentance which is for the right reasons, the nature of which he goes on to describe in subsequent verses.

2Co 7:10-11 for godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. (11) For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.


Paul now, after having established what true repentance is, grief borne from God, he now proceeds to describe what the nature of true repentance looks like. The apostle tells us that godly grief produces in the broader sense, repentance, or turning from sin, that leads to salvation. This contrast of true and false repentance is first put in the context of salvation versus death, speaking of our eternal state. It is in this context that true Christian repentance is explained. True Christian repentance is repentance without regret as the ESV states. Perhaps a better rendering of verse 10 might be this:

�For sorrow according to God accomplishes a reformation (or repentance) that saves and is irrevocable (without regret), but the grief of the world fashions (or brings) death.�

The true work of God, Paul says is one that does not bring regret, because it is not a false repentance. The apostle describes a repentance that is irrevocable because it is a God-given repentance and thus, we do not have to despair over it. The contrast with a worldly grief, that is a temporary turning from the sin, is in Paul�s understanding a matter of life and death. So true repentance then produces a desire, which may be evidenced visibly in the repentant believer. So as Paul begins his discourse in verse 11, we see the product, or fruit, of what God-given repentance brings.

Paul in verse eleven gives us seven marks of true repentance. Let�s consider each one in order:

1. Earnestness: Firstly and most generally, there is an earnest desire that becomes a Christian who is truly repentant. This (spoude) signifies haste, or a speed that accompanies repentance. I believe that what Paul is trying to get across to his readers is that when the offending party encounters God-given repentance there is a haste or speedy desire to make things right. It is recognition that the offending party desire to make things right before God and his fellow man. Calvin notes in his commentary that this earnest desire �we may understand from what is opposed to it; for so long as there is no apprehension of sin, we lie drowsy and inactive. Hence drowsiness or carelessness, or unconcern, stands opposed to that earnest desire� � This earnestness then is tied to the desire to speedily remedy the wrong done by the sinner.

2. Eagerness: Secondly, there is an eagerness to clear yourself. Literally, to give an apology or defense. Calvin notes that rather than give a defense or excuse for the sin, the word (apologion) is used in the sense of asking pardon. The plea, or apology, then is not to excuse the sin, but rather to seek mercy and forgiveness from the one who has been offended . The idea is akin to coming and throwing yourself at the mercy of the court rather than giving a defense of your case to prove your innocence in the particular matter. This signifies a differentiation in attitudes. The person who has not truly been apprehended by God with true repentance seeks to justify or give reason for the sin committed, but the person truly gripped by a godly sorrow has a humble and contrite attitude. They do not seek to give an explanation for why they sinned so much as they seek mercy for their sin, recognizing that they are without excuse.


3. Indignation: This is indignation towards their sin and even against themselves. This is a righteous, godly indignation, which accompanied with the other evidences, does not lead to a morbid introspection, but rather an outcry against the sin committed. The sinner then seems angry at the sin and even at themselves for having engaged in it, knowing that there is only himself to blame for having engaged in that sin. This is more intense than sorrow Calvin says, because it has become the first step towards hating evil . Thomas Watson comments in his treatise on true repentance that our indignation and sorrow for our sin should be of the same measure as the sin committed . He notes that the failure to weep over our sin is directly connected to our view of the riches of Christ�s mercy and grace poured out upon us !

4. Fear: What alarm or terror Paul says was produced as a result of repentance. This alarm, this phobos), derives from a sense of divine judgment. This stems from the knowledge that at the last day, every man must give account for his own actions. Proverbs tells us that fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.


5. Vehement desire: Paul accompanies fear with vehement desire, or longing. Whereas fear may stem from a natural inclination, according to Calvin, this longing is a more conscious desire rooted in the desire to not commit the sin anymore and thus risk God�s condemnation .

6. Zeal: Paul builds to a climax his exposition of the fruits of repentance. Building off the previous two fruits, fear and longing, Paul adds zeal which is a more intense form in this context of longing. This zeal stems from a desire to make things right as the offender desires to give evidence of his repentance.


7.Revenge: Paul finishes out his discourse on true repentance with revenge. ἐκδίκησις (ekdikesis) means vindication or retribution. True repentance then, also bears the mark of one who wants to vindicate themselves through the demonstration of their repentance. It may be that Paul here has in mind I Corinthians 11:31, where he tells them that if they would judge themselves, they would not be judged by the Lord. Paul here is telling us that if we would judge ourselves, then there would be no need to be chastened by the Lord. Private offenses, says Calvin, need not be handled publicly, but as in the case of the man who was openly sinning by sleeping with his father�s wife, there needed to be a public chastening and also a public repentance on the part of the Corinthians for their tolerance of such a sin .


In some instances, as evidenced in Paul�s description of our 7th point (Revenge), restitution may be in mind. For instance, if a man has taken the goods of another, he may seek to offer repayment for it. This must be a heartfelt restitution. In Luke 19:8, Zacchaeus offers to restore what he stole four-fold. This is a principle which was derived from Numbers 5:7. Important also to note is the fact that this idea was not limited to physical goods (land, money, goods), but extended to false accusations as well. Some sins though, may be so grievous that restitution may never be able to be provided. This must be kept in mind as we cannot separate the doctrine of repentance from Christ our great high priest. It is not possible for us to recompense God for sin against His Holy nature. So how is such a thing accomplished? It is only accomplished in the person and work of our savior, Jesus Christ. Christ has made restitution on our behalf before the Father. He has paid what no man can and has satisfied the righteous requirements of God�s law. Likewise, there may be instances where sin against our brother or sister is so great that restitution may not be possible. It is here also that the grace of God must cover our infirmities. Truthfully, the burden of this rests upon the offended party rather than the offender since it is the offended party who has to provide grace and mercy. Thomas Watson notes that the true child of God seeks the most to be revenged of the sins which have offended God the most . It may be that one of the best ways to avenge the sin is recompensing the one offended.


This may seem like a hard view of repentance, especially in light of the modern evangelical view of sin where grace is cheapened by a �soft repenting�. That is, a repenting that does little introspection does not search the heart and has a view that �God will just forgive whatever I do if I just ask�. Yet, we see David�s words in Psalm 51 regarding how we should view our own sin, where in verse 3, David says �my sin is ever before me�. David�s intent here is not that the threat of God�s judgment is ever before his eyes; rather it is the idea that our hearts should break because our own sin has grieved our comforter. David is saying �my sin is my own fault, and my own sin is before my face� In the Old Testament evidence of true repentance was shown outwardly through various means (shaving one�s head, weeping, sitting in ashes, and clothing one�s self in sackcloth), but in the New Testament Paul shows us a better way. Paul tells us in this passage 1) Our repentance must me God-inspired in order to be genuine repentance 2) Genuine repentance has genuine fruits 3) real repentance is not short-lived (as evidenced in the nature of the fruits it bears), hence the irrevocable nature of the salvation which leads to repentance.


It is important to note that these outward manifestations are evidences of an inward work of the Holy Spirit, for without the Holy Spirit, no true repentance could take place. Paul saw the evidence of true repentance. Paul�s concluding remarks is that they �proved themselves innocent at every point�. This means that he was able to see the evidences of a true repentance in them as they were spurred on by their zeal to prove it. We see that such repentance is also profitable in that comfort is provided to the truly repentant. This is seen in Paul�s general manner towards the Corinthians as he seeks to encourage them as well as the tone of Paul�s words that Christ provides comfort to those who mourn, and even though their sin has caused them sorrow, their repentance if followed by encouragement from the comforter who brings peace in the midst of our turning.

There also appears to be a difference in humility versus humiliation in this passage. Paul sees their repentance and says in essence �it is enough�. He is not requiring them to go beyond the bounds of what Scripture requires. Paul�s primary concern is that their earnestness, their genuineness is seen by God. This is displayed in verse 12 where he says that he desires that they see their care for them is evident in the sight of God. One of the great treasures of the Gospel is that God grants pardon to us in Christ if we truly seek him in repentance. As the great work of the Holy Spirit grips us and takes hold, peace begins to reign in our life knowing, trusting, and resting in the knowledge that not only has Christ defeated death, but He has also defeated sin. It is a living in the midst of the already/not yet. Knowing that God has already justified us, he has already given His Son, our redemption has already been accomplished, His Words of Promise have already been written for our instruction, and yet, we still see through a glass darkly. We have not yet seen the fulfillment of the sanctifying work of the Spirit, Christ�s Kingdom has not yet been finally established; death while defeated has not yet been eradicated. It is the knowledge that we are living in the midst of redemptive history and God�s plans are being worked out in and through us, yes even in the midst of our sin, and His glory is displayed in our repentance.

I need to get ready for work now, but I just wanted to say now that I'm actually thinking a little more rationally, I can't even believe some of the things I have said here. To say I'm completely ashamed of myself would put it lightly. I think that is why I have been so ridiculously defensive is because what I did went against what I believe 100%. I really had to do a LOT of justifying of my actions the last few months just to live with myself. Not to mention the steps I took to meet him. I want to throw up. That's what I meant by saying there was nothing I could do to make things better, I can't take away what I did. The last few months were bad enough. I can't believe myself. I apologize to everyone here. Give me some time to clear my head, please!

How is your husband doing?

Please do not go back and edit out even dumb comments. You have no idea how seeing your journey will help others who read here in the future.

Is your BH willing to post here?

In most ways, your affair is just like every other affair; most here already have a very thorough understanding of what you've been through, what you're going through, and what you will go through.

Likewise, in most ways, your husband's reaction will be like every other BS who's had to live with such a betrayal.

We're looking for some feedback on your husband's reaction that will indicate that you've truly confessed.

My concern is toward your victims, especially your husband. What you've done will change his life completely, and he will need strong support. I urge you to confess if you haven't, then steer your husband here for the support and education he'll need to cope.

Please, let us know how your husband is doing.

I strongly encourage practicing admitting fault readily and frequently. It is painful but will become less painful with time.

I had to do this here in order to become a better spouse.

Also, practice answering each and every question asked of you. Some of them will be extremely painful and trigger that defensive justification. Practice answering anyway, without defending, without trying to cast yourself into any good light at all. The questions have a point.


If you have read what Dr. Harley says about affairs, then you will understand that you have been in a fog. We can help you by leading you out of the fog.

Can you get your husband posting here? If you do, we will direct him to stay on his own thread and not post on yours, and we can begin helping both of you.

HAVE YOU EMAILED DR. HARLEY? You can get some very good professional help, the absolute best, FREE. I strongly encourage you to do so.

This is going to be extremely painful, but healthy, for you to hear.

The being that tempted you into this affair would like you to think that it was something special and wonderful.

Please instead listen to those who know otherwise, from deep experience. Goldilocks, you would be amazed how many times we have seen you here before. While that may be uncomfortable for you to hear, it does mean that we know how to help you.

Please let us know how your husband is doing, and ask him to post here. Please also email Dr. Harley.

Does he even know yet?

Hello gold,

This is between you and your conscience and you and your H as to how to resolve this, as long as you can feel good within yourself about how you attempt it. I think maybe you needed a break, but hope you come back and continue posting. This site and the people here who have been advising you are heavily weighing on the side of saving your marriage.

It's awfully damned hard for any of us to admit to any serious transgression. The problem with Christ is that He always forgives, and that we might feel we can play games with Him and His forgiveness, and attempt to continue with our wayward ways. The problem with people is that even tho we admit our transgression we are frighened that they will never forgive us, and will try to exact some revenge.

So, siimply, you have to weigh the advice here along with your conscience against your desire to stonewall. You're choice, but again I wish you the courage to return here.

Tom

There was no offense against me. You are forgiven for that. Please do come back here and post.

CV

Goldilocks, if you want to see what it takes to Recover, look at my threads. I actually caught my wife in the act, but we are still together, why? Because she has proven herself in every way. She is committed to radical honesty, and I have the option of having her take a polygraph anytime I choose. She has never contacted the OM since that day and has told me that if I wanted to kill him, she would bury the body. LOL !!She gave me a post-nup which gives me EVERYTHING if I divorce her FOR ANY REASON, not just infidelity. She is never anywhere or with anyone that I don't trust or know. She does not have male friends, without my say so. EVERYTHING needed to recover from an affair she has done and what is more, she actually looks for new ways to prove herself!! Talk about Love Bank, we BOTH have several accounts full! We talk, laugh , cry and are so much better connected now , using DR. Harleys' principles, that it seems like a new marriage. But RadicaL honesty is the starting place for any and all good marriages. BTW, to all of our MB friends, HI from our new home in Chicago!!!!!!!!!

mirrormirror, I was thinking about you the other day, glad to hear that y'all made the move and that things are going great!

Things are good, but busy!! We have started trashing the upper floors of the building, and the demolition costs are unbelievable, especially for disposal. Our APPT is smaller than we had hoped but we have part of the ground floor for storage. Thankfully the basics, electric, sewage and heating/ac are fairly new and the roof is pristine, so it could be worse. How are you doing?

Goldi
I'm glad you told your husband. It will help you to be able to move on. I am the WS and have had multiple A's. This last time I prayed to God that my H wouldn't find out that I told God that I would rather go to hell before he found out. As to be expected God would see that the truth came out.
It is really easy to beat yourself up and some people may come across very mean so it just adds to the weight you feel. They are only trying to get you to understand from their point of view the damage that has been done.
Your right you can't take back what has been done, but you can learn from it, and help your husband through it.
Hang in there. One step at a time.

After going back and reading the whole thread, I also don't believe that the OP has told her husband anything. Since she said it, she has not mentioned anything that might have happened (fallout) from her "admission of guilt" which seems a little hinky to me.

Goldi,
I hope that you will come back here. It seems you haven't posted in awhile.

I was deathly afraid of my husband finding out about my affair. Do you want to know something? When he found out, he acted the complete opposite of what I thought he would. Is it fear of his reaction keeping you from coming clean?
CT

Yeah, I think that's the vibe that a lot of us have gotten.

The impact of what I have done to my husband and family has finally started to settle in my brain. My husband is shattered, angry. I don't think he will ever trust me again. I honestly don't know what happened to me. If I could ever get anything back in this life it would be the trust and peace of mind I had before all this happened. Even reading back through all 25 pages, I sound like someone I don't even know. What happened to me??? I just want to cry constantly. He doesn't want to hear that I'm sorry. And I can't blame any of you for not believing me. There are no words for what I have done to all of us. I probably won't be here too much, this is too painful to share anymore.

Goldi,

You know what? You're finally in a position to heal from your adultery if this is what you are feeling. Trust can be earned back, but it will take time.

Your husband? no, he doesn't want to hear sorry, he wants to see it.

Read my link, there's hope there.

CV

Goldi,

Been reading along and fully agree with what everyone has been telling you. You said
Of course he is shattered and so are your children and for that matter so are you. So how do you recover. Well it takes time and patience. You MUST give yourself both time and have patience with yourself and then your H. He will NOT recover on your time schedule, but he can recover.

Where to start? You start with a plan. A plan to make your marriage better and that starts with you.

What should you do? You should become a woman that you are proud of (hence everyone's advice to be honest with your H). You should be a woman of grace. You should evaluate your actions and learn from them. You should acknowledge your H's pain, but also express to him what you are learning about yourself, about marriage, about your needs, and his needs.

What you want and need is a marriage where honesty is the watch word. But honesty mixed with kindness, care, and friendship. You can do these things.

If you read the articles on this site, which I know you have not yet, you will see that you are not unique. Your failures are common, your needs are common, and sadly your response to things have been all too common. But, you will also see the kernel of the plan. Learning about each others needs (I would guess you are actually as ignorant about his needs and how he wants them met as he is about yours), you will learn about how to address these needs, you will learn many things. These things can make you and your H see things in a very different perspective.

Please realize that recovery from an affair is measured in years, not days, weeks or months. Now you won't feel as you do now for years, and neither will your H.

There is much more to say, but you need to read, talk with your H, listen to him carefully, and reassure him with your words and actions that you intend to be better than you were.

He can learn to trust, and he will when your actions match your words. You are coming out of a three month emotional affair where you focussed more on the OM than your H. It will take time for your focus to be totally on your H. But be aware he is now very hyper sensitive to your words and actions. That is a good thing if you have a plan and use it. It is a bad thing if you dither around trying to justify.

I must end this now, but please think about it. You have hit the motherload when it comes to recovery once that is started.

God Bless,

JL

Goldilocks, your marriage is a strong, strong candidate for recovery. Long-term marriage, described by you as good, no previous major indiscretions, the apparent debilitating remorse for your actions: there's a tremendous amount to work with here.

Your husband may not be very accepting of your ideas and plans at the moment; that's understandable. I urge you to remain here and start really studying the MB program. Regardless of how things go from this point forward, the information here can only help. And you will receive support from the posters here, so please don't bail on your thread.

Start by getting Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair. You want to start right away, as CV suggested, showing by your ACTIONS, that you're sorry and will commit to changing and making yourself and your marriage better. You can't start this too soon.

If there's some way you can introduce your husband to this forum, we'd like to be part of his support network as well. There are many here who've been through what he's going through -- and worse. He can get a lot of support, help, and guidance. There are a lot of good folks here who want nothing more than to provide it.

You have reason for a lot of hope. Don't bail on us now . . .

Read SAA in front of your BH and the do what the books says.

Actions speak louder then words.

How about sending your husband here and letting us help him?

If you have received Christ as your savior, you are/were already forgiven. When he looks at you he sees his perfect son. What you are feeling is the "reaping sowing". You sowed to the wind, and you now reap the world wind. But don't even think that God has not forgiven you. Question: How many sins had you committed when Christ died for you? None.

Jesus said. "If I be lifted up (that's what they called crucifiction) I will draw all men to me.

Next. When Christ was on the cross. One of the thieves said. "If you be the son of God, come down from the cross, and save us". The other Thief said. "Leave him alone, we are getting what we deserve. He is innocent." Then he said "Remember me when you come into your kingdom". Jesus said. Today you will be with me in paradise.

NOW HERE IS THE CRITICAL POINT. WHY WAS THE THIEF WHO DEFENDED CHRIST ON THE CROSS?.......... HE WAS A THEIF.
WHAT GOOD THING DID THE THIEF EVER DO?......NOTHING. HE WAS ON THE CROSS FOR STEALING. WHY WAS HE SAVED?..... BECAUSE HE HAD FAITH IN CHRIST......THAT'S IT. NO SINLESS LIFE. NO GOOD NEIGHBOR AWARDS. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR SALVATION NEVER IS/WAS/OR NEVER WILL BE AT RISK.

GOD SAID. "DON'T BE DECEIVED GOD IS NOT MOCKED, WHAT A MAN SOWS THAT HE WILL ALSO REAP.

WHAT YOU HAVE DONE MAY HAVE COST YOU YOUR MARRIAGE. BUT YOUR SALVATION IS SECURE. WHY? BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO DESERVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

YES GOD STILL LOVES YOU. HE CAN'T LOVE YOU ANYMORE. HE LOVES YOU AS MUCH AS HE LOVES HIS SON. AND ALWAYS WILL.

OH. AND DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE WOMAN THAT WAS CAUGHT IN THE ACT OF ADULTERY. THE CROWD WANTED TO STONE HER. AFTER ASKING "LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" AFTER THEY LEFT JESUS ASKED HER "WOMAN WHERE ARE YOU ACCUSERS?" SHE SAID THEY'RE GONE. "JESUS SAID NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU. GO AND SIN NO MORE". NOW YOU CAN'T GET A MORE SPECIFIC COMMENT ON YOUR SITUATION THEN THAT. CAN YOUR HUSBAND DIVORCE YOU? YES. JESUS ALLOWED IT. BUT YOUR ETERNAL SALVATION IS SECURE.

A LITTLE MORE ILLUMINATION. WHEN JESUS SAID "NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU". DO YOU NOTICE THAT JESUS DID NOT SAY "NEITHER DO I JUDGE YOU". WHY? BECAUSE SHE WAS CAUGHT IN THE ACT. SHE HAD ALREADY BEEN JUDGED. SHE DESERVED TO BE STONED BY THE LAW. CHRIST SAID, NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU. THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUDGED AND CONDEMNED.

Ready for it?



Your husband doesn't want your apologies because you have established that you can lie, and deceive, and betray - the whole time smiling in his face. Your words are meaningless in the face of your actions.

You want him to believe you are sincere? ACT sincerely (not as in pretending - as in actions).

You want him to learn to trust you? Then ACT trustworthy.

You want forgiveness? Then ACT in repentance.

You want to recover your marriage? Then quit with the spoiled-brat temper tantrum. Quit trying to run away from the problems YOU have created, and FACE THEM.


"Oooooh, it's so painful!"

How do you think your husband feels? The person who he loved and trusted most in his life just stuck a knife in his gut and rearranged his entire soul.

You broke it. Now, learn how to fix it, and quit trying to run away!

Goldi,
Don't go away. That is the worst thing you can do. When I took a break from MB (and too early on, mind you), I felt worse.

Recovering from an affair is a very LONG process. Your husband has to work through his anger. Listen to what everyone is saying. You have to "do" not say.

I am still not a "former" WW. I haven't earned that yet. I'm not sure I ever will. Every action I take has my BH in mind. Make your BH your priority.

I can't remember. Did you write a NC letter? It's the BEST thing you can do for both of you.

Read my story if you have a chance. Maybe it will help. But please keep coming back here. It's the only way you'll heal.

I am in such a different place now than I was early on. You are still in the raw stage. It's an awful place to be.

CT

Thank you CT, Not a good place to be right now is such an understatement. I have been trying to think of a way to explain my husband, as far as I don't have much hope of him coming here himself. He works 14 hour days, driving a truck, and is probably one of the few people today who really dislikes the internet, and especially after what I did, I'm truly surprised he hasn't smashed my laptop yet. What is also hard is that he escapes when something bothers him. I wish he was like some of the men here who are attempting to make things better with their wives. The one that sent his WW flowers... I would appreciate something like that. It's not that he won't speak at all, he is too angry right now, and I really think I'll be paying for this the rest of my life. The 14 hour days he works are perfect for him to hide and not face things. He gets home about an hour (which he spends with our little one) before he goes to bed. He's not kicking me out, he's ignoring me. I don't know how to deal with someone who is not available. I know this isn't about me anymore, but this is why I feel so lonely in my marriage. He doesn't open up.
I do need to go back and read things again, because the first time through my mind was mush.

I definitely understand the emotional withdrawal. He may be able to keep it up for a while, but I doubt he'll keep it up indefinitely.

I can't believe that he would want to continue living in a broken marriage. Something has to give. He may decide he can't live with it and divorce you. At the same time, the fact that you confessed is a big sign that you are remorseful and care for your husband. He'll see that, even through the hurt.

Read up on this web site. Become an expert. Use the tools that are available here, including getting Dr. Harley's books. Even if your husband doesn't want to engage with you right now, let him see that you care, that you are working toward reconciliation and a better marriage. He may not want to use the internet, but he may be intrigued when he sees you reading and leaving the MB books lying around.

As I posted earlier: I'm concerned with your husband's well-being. Don't push it on him, but if you get a chance to steer him toward this MB forum, please do. What he's dealing with is very difficult to deal with alone. It would be tremendously helpful for him to be able to engage with others who've been through what he's going through and have come out on the other side as better people with better marriages.

I must say that you seem extremely contrite and are definitely owning your [censored]. There should be no more 2x4s hitting you upside the head.

Goldilocks, do you have a copy of Surviving an Affair? Will he read it?

I don't have the book yet, but I will order it. I'm not positive he will read it, but at least I can read it and have it available.

To start, my extraordinary precautions to make sure this never happens again is that I will never go on the site where I met OM. In fact, I deleted my information there months ago.
I won't 'chat' with other men period. I deleted everything from my phone before I got home. I deleted my IM and emails before I posted here. I didn't think about making any of it available for my husband to see. I know, I was getting rid of it...
I won't take my laptop or cell phone to bed with me ever again.
I had actually been sleeping in another bedroom for awhile because of my husbands snoring and then the sleep apnea machine took so much space. I moved back into our bedroom my first night back home. We had really been drifting apart, and it was mainly me. He'd been trying to get me back in our room. Things hadn't been too good for quite awhile actually. IB is something we have just done for so long, because of his job and the long hours. If I want to go somewhere or do something I pretty much did it alone or with whichever kids were home. He doesn't care to take vacations or time off work. It's been 20 years he's drove a truck. A long time for IB for me. What made me vulnerable now?? Maybe that I haven't been happy for years, that I wanted to leave my husband after kid #2 was off to college, but by then we had #3 and I felt STUCK. Then out of boredom I started chatting with OM who was almost always instantly available . Telling me things that I didn't even know I wanted to hear at first. Making me laugh, giving me ATTENTION and compliments. Getting involved deeper and deeper as the days went on. I couldn't tell him no. I didn't want to tell him no and then after we met, what happened hit me like a ton of bricks.
I want to make what I did up to my husband and be the best wife in the world to him. There is a lot of room for improvement and I am ready to show him that I will be. I have to move forward now. I'm ready to put the effort into our marriage, and know I have a lot to prove to my husband- but I will, as he's ready to let me.
This is just the beginning, I'm still reading, there is so much information here. As hard as you guys have been on me, I know it's what I need, and I'm thankful I did stumble across this site because I believe we both need the help. We were both from broken homes and at 19 and 22 years old, we weren't ready for marriage, but it's what we did. A lot of trial and error, but we wanted to keep it together for our kids and now this... it feels like I'm in the middle of a nightmare. I'm still reading. I'm going to print off the questions for us to answer. What else? I'm realizing one of my excuses was thinking H was emotionally unavailable, but I was also not available. I didn't realize how far we had drifted apart. There is more to my EP's, I'll be back after I get home from work tomorrow.

Goldi,

You next EP should involve this;

Your husband needs a new job.

Your marriage will NOT survive his current job, it's already limping and broken, and if this issue is not addressed, your marriage will NOT recover.

It needs to be addressed.

Though, I can't really come up with any suggestions off the cuff myself, as all I can see is how you have weakened your negotiating position with your infidelity.

Hopefully a good, hard-nosed poster will have a suggestion for you.

I don't remember how old kid #3 is, but my husband and I spent a number of years on the road, together. Nothing quite so bonding as 24/7 with each other and seeing the countryside.

Goldilocks, have you confessed to POSOM's wife and initiated a No Contact letter?

Just like your husband has a right to know what's going on in his life and marriage, Man-ho's wife has a right to know what you and he have done to hers.

You've made a big mess here. You have to clean it all up. ALL of it . . .

Read this thread: Extraordinary Precautions

What is the purpose of Extraordinary Precautions, Goldilocks?

Definitely he needs a new job.

Neak, he doesn't drive OTR anymore. He did that the first two years. He works locally now, he is gone around 14 hours a day and gets home usually by 8pm. We are hoping he gets a job that will be coming up in May or June. He also usually works 6 days a week.

Our little one is almost 7, in the 1st. grade.

As far as OMW, I have no way to contact her. Since he isn't someone I knew from real life and he was very careful not to give out too much personal information, which I was just as happy to also not do. Embarrassingly enough, besides telling me his profession and the city he lives in, we exchanged only our cell phone numbers and first names. We weren't even facebook 'friends'. I'm sure he knew he didn't want his comfy life disrupted down the road. There is no more contact, we said our goodbyes a few days after our meeting and I have already deleted everything I had.

Prisca, the purpose of EP would be to restore our relationship and prevent another affair from happening. Proving to my husband that I am serious about (if it's possible) regaining his trust, being an open book, accountable and completely honest and transparent. Exactly what I USED to be!

Wrong. You have enough information here to be able to track down his family. You're still trying to walk away from this keeping yourself intact with no regard for the hit-and-run victim you left bleeding in the ditch. You're just going to take your car to the body-shop and go whistling past the graveyard, averting your eyes, hoping to avoid having to see the headstone YOU placed there.

That's not repentance. That's self-preservation. You're still exhibiting the same cowardice, selfishness and sense of entitlement that led you to lift your skirt for a back-dooring weasel in the first place.

You owe it to OMW to let her know what you and your AP have done. This is information about HER life that you have no right to keep from her. You KNOW you could find her if you were so inclined.

Others here might be willing to support you under the circumstances, but I'm not. Just remember: life's a wheel. There's a good chance this is going to come back and bite you. And you'll find that it always seems to happen at the worst possible time.

Good luck with trying to recover your marriage while continuing to show more regard for your partner-in-crime than you show for the victims. Good luck trying to recover your marriage while actively living a lie.

I honestly do not know how I would track someone down when I don't have their last name.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW I COULD!

If I was that conniving I probably wouldn't be here in the first place, and I probably wouldn't even care about what I have done to anyone.

You win. I give up trying to get help from anyone here.

It's easy. All I had were cell phone nos for OW1 and OW2 and was able to get their full names. Have you gone to intelius.com and paid for a report on the cell phone no?

You passed through many, possibly hundreds, of tiny decision points in the process of going heels-up for your adultery partner. At each and every one of those decision points, you knew the choices and you knew the consequences of each choice. At each and every one of those decision points, you made a conscious decision to continue down the path to adultery and betrayal of your husband and POSOM's wife.

If you had come here then, asking for help in turning you away from consciously pursuing the entitled, selfish path to self-fulfillment, things would be different.

You made the choice to be a destroyer. Over and over you made that choice. You are not the victim here. Your victims are the ones who need help. That includes helping OMW by telling her what you've done.

You really expect the posters here to believe you have no possible way to find out who she is and get in touch with her. Nothing but typical denial of accountability by an active wayward. You can find your victim when you really become serious about repentance and restitution.

Until then, by all means, go find a forum that will make you feel better. After all, that's what it's all about, right Goldilocks?

That's what it's always been about: making YOU feel better.

I'm not looking for "another forum that will make you feel better". And to say "That's what it's always been about: making YOU feel better" is YOU being ignorant to a stranger on the internet.

YOU KNOW PRECIOUS LITTLE ABOUT ME.

My best friends don't even know everything about me. Hubby doesn't know everything about me.
I'm going to take this opportunity to vent since this is anonymous and people are still obviously reading this...Here is the condensed version:

At the age of 10 my childhood was OVER. I gained a step father who BEAT me, TOUCHED me, mentally abused me daily. My mom worked swing shift...guess who cooked dinner, did the laundry and cleaned the house? My mom gave me my first glass of wine at 10 years old. That was my first time to get 'tipsy' and I took every opportunity after that to drink. When I was 12, they had a baby...guess who took care of that baby as much as my mom did? As a teenager, I would go to bed at night and PRAY to DIE. I didn't want to live anymore. I had sex at 15 with the boy who became my step-brother (from my dad) because he pressured me and I wasn't strong enough to stand up for myself. I'm lucky I didn't get pregnant. At 16 I started using drugs. I was also put in school at 16 for the first time since the couple of months I went to school when I was 13. YES, they kept me and my older brother out of school for years. I worked like a damn dog for them on their 20 acres, pursuing their dream of 'living off the land' in an extremely remote area. I was taken out of school as a junior, again, and sent to live with my aunt so I could work at a McDonalds where I was allowed to keep 10.00 out of each of my pay checks, they got the rest. I was 18 at that time, yes...but as an ABUSED 18 year old who wasn't allowed to drive, graduate from high school, or make a decision on my own I did what I was told.

At 19, and still at 'home' I met my husband. We were married in less than 6 months. DO YOU THINK I WAS PREPARED TO BE A WIFE? HELL NO! So, I went right into being a wife. After all, I already knew how to cook, clean and have sex. I realized fairly quickly that I shouldn't have gotten married, but didn't think I had an option. At least I was smart enough to give up the drugs, smoking and drinking when I was trying to get pregnant, and I was soon pregnant with our first baby, which ended in a miscarriage.

I tried to make the best of my marriage because that was what I was taught from my mother about how to deal with men, you make the best of it. Our first baby was born, hubby didn't want to even hold him...I'm not going to go into all that, but suffice it to say I had little help. I put 100% into raising my kids...We have three kids. The oldest is almost 28, was valedictorian of his class, has a doctorate, an excellent job, is married and became a new daddy last year. Second was also valedictorian and is a junior in college. And little one is a first grader. So to say I am proud of my kids is an understatement, especially since my example was learning what NOT to do.

My family has been my life. Hubby has never gone without a cooked meal, clean clothes a clean house and sex. His requirements. And I have been required to earn my own money for mine and the kids clothes, shoes, gas, my own car... any extras etc. We have lived in a little tiny town (less than 200 people) where HE'S wanted to live (where his family is from) for the last 18 years. It's been difficult for me to earn money here, but I always managed. Now for the last two years I actually have a good job, (I filled in for the last ten years before that)one of the rare jobs in this town.

I realize now that I was getting my emotional needs met from my kids instead of my husband. Little one takes after his dad and has always been closer to him. Now I see I am struggling to raise a little miniature hubby. The 14 hour days he works are way too long for me to have him on my own, compared to when my oldest two were at home. That time was a blessing. Hubby can be sarcastic, rude, disrespectful and is passive aggressive. And yes, I have asked him for a divorce (he refuses), numerous times, because I really don't think I can raise this one with him. And to be realistic, I'm going to be what, around 60 years old by the time he's out of high school. My life will be OVER. And I feel like I have never truly even lived MY LIFE.

So, when last October rolled around and my college kid was back at school... I joined a site for married people. Stupid? Yes. I only intended to chat. That was all. Just something to do for a little while in the afternoons. That's when I met him and everything snowballed into THIS. There is no excuse for what we did. He had his reasons for joining the site and I had mine. I don't believe if someone is a part of a happy marriage, any of the partners would cheat. Such as they are, my morals kept me from cheating for many years. I did learn a valuable lesson however, and I do love my husband and think we can get through this and come out much better than things have been.

We are getting professional help from someone who is knowledgeable and helpful to our situation, and that's what will help us get through this. I know in the long run our marriage will be better than ever, because it's been pretty crappy as far as I'm concerned and we have needed help for years, unfortunately this is what it took to wake us or at least me up- hubby has always said he's been happy with me. I don't get how I could be SO unhappy and unfulfilled and he's been happy?? Hmmm. It was the absolute wrong thing for me to do. I learned a lesson. Today I am different because of it.

SO... You know about a period of time in my life that I came here and shared. From Oct. 8, 2011 until Jan. 3, 2012. When I made this post, I WAS looking for someone to tell me what I did was okay, I quickly learned that wasn't the case and it wasn't okay. I felt like I was in shock, maybe it was just the fog...
YOU can say how much my life has always been about me until the cows come home... I know differently. I'm not perfect. I screwed up big time. We all know that, and me saying I'm sorry won't take anything away or make my hubby forgive me. I wish I could take it back, but I can't and I HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD.

I have said repeatedly that I deleted the information I had for him weeks ago. I know his FIRST name. I know the city he lives in. I know his profession. THAT IS NOT ENOUGH TO GO ON, I HAVE TRIED! I am not a detective. And you are not the one I have to make my indiscretion up to.

This really wasn't for you OldWarHorse. It's for someone who may need to understand that, yes, affairs are wrong and there is absolutely no excuse, however there are reasons. Like it or not, this one's mine.

And while I'm at it, there is something else I'd like to say...

While I truly believe most of you are here for genuine reasons and want to help people who are hurting, I have noticed a few who seem to feed on the drama.

People who can prance off with their tails held high...really, think about it... Some of you have been here FOR YEARS!!!! Thousands of posts made. Bumping all your relevant posts for others to see... The Betrayed Spouse. YEARS you have been here??? Sad...
Is that how you are vindicated? By putting all the "Waywards" in their place?

Goldi,

I know his FIRST name. I know the city he lives in. I know his profession.

You can do a web then a photo search in google, use his name and profession and city, you would be surprised how often a connection can be made with few clues. There may only be 50 persons in his profession in that city. Also professional associations and www.linkedin.com he may be on it. If he belongs to a union call the union hall.

Also he might still be on that adult website, look him up with your H at your side. Lure him to a motel you can get his license plate number.

You also know his hair/eye color, his build, possibly what he wears.

God Bless
Gamma

And I'll say it for you...

Buh bye...

Like I said earlier:




Your affair happened because of weak boundaries and dishonesty. Not your childhood. There are MANY people who have lousy childhoods filled with abuse who don't cheat, some are posters (BSs) on this very forum.

I tried that!!!!

That post reeks of entitlement.

Hire one.

The fine people who have been posting here for years do so because they care about marriages.
Both Betrayed Spouses AND Former Waywards.

Stop the fit, okay?

You ALSO told us you have his cell phone number which I told you you can get a report with the full name of OM on.

If you deleted the cell phone #, you can go back to your phone records to pull it. This is not "detective" level work. This is something a 12 year old can do.

But my guess is from your latest "woe is me" posts, you have no interest in contacting OMW and are going to try to distract us. It's not going to work, Goldi. You are not the victim here. OMW and your BH are. Nice try tho...

I don't understand. Why is it sad? I intend to be here for the rest of my life supporting marriages.

Do you go to AA meetings and tell people their 30-years-sober buttons are sad?

VERY baaaaaad move with this post. I was getting ready to show a boatload of compassion for you with your big post, just trying to figure out how to frame it properly to help just a little bit in my little ol' way.

Obviously, you are way too self entitled, self absorbed, self righteous, self important, self this, self that, self this that and the other thing to truly appreciate what marriage is all about. It's all about you

Best of luck to you in your future trials and tribulations.

Markos, you and your wife are not who I was talking about, I think you are two who genuinely care.

I know, I snapped... OldWarHorse got to me. I apologize.

Would you like me to list some of the others who care, Goldilocks? I have gotten to know several of them well. There are people who are really passionate here about helping people have great marriages.

Occasionally some of them have emailed me and ripped me a new one when they got wind that I was not treating my wife in a way that is conducive for a good marriage.

And I am glad of it.

I have yet to see anybody posted who didn't genuinely care.
You are throwing a fit because you've been told to do something you do not want to do.

Perhaps you need to listen to him, then.

This is what I tried to do...

I actually live 1,000 miles away.

When you feel that way, it usually means that somebody has hit close to home with something that you really need to hear.

I know it was true for me!

Growth comes from making oneself be quiet (my anger management therapist said rule number one was to SHUT UP) and listen.

He got you because he was RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, the $64,000 question is; what are YOU going to do about it?!?!

OldWarHorse doesn't know what he's talking about.

You have an anger management therapist? Unfortunately I do snap when I get to a certain point...

He knows a lot more about what it takes to have a good marriage than you do, Hon.

That is not unfortunate, that is a choice. And a very poor one.

I have a pre-paid phone, so I don't get monthly statements and I deleted his number weeks ago!

I don't see anything in OldWarHorse's post that I disagree with.

The truth hurts sometimes. What are you going to do about it?

Excuses.

Hire someone.

He obviously knows a helluva lot more about what he's talking about than you do. There is simply no arguing this.

I agree. I take so much and then I snap, I think it comes from my childhood. I took it and couldn't say anything...so now I take it until I snap.

What kind of prepaid phone? WHo is the carrier?

Stop blaming your childhood for everything.
It's not because of your childhood.
It's a choice you make today.

It's a Tracfone.

I think it is.

Dr. Harley told me I needed to work with an anger management program before I could have a good marriage.

Here's the quick blowdown on anger management, in just a couple easy minutes:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=238

Have a listen at that link I posted, take note of what Dr. Harley's first rule for anger management is, then come back here and reread what you wrote.

Goldi,

Reading your posts I notice that you seem to say very little about your BH, perhaps you should read some of the BH threads on MB to get an idea what he feels.

Your past is relevant, I would guess, in that having a childhood like you did would often make a person very self aware, if only for your own survival, at the expense of their awareness of others.

You may be able to recover the data from the tracfone memory.

God Bless
Gamma

tracfone has a sim card. Get a sim card reader and recover what needs to be recovered. Sim cards readers are cheap.

Thanks Markos.

My little one was listening to this and actually started laughing and POINTING at me! ugh..

I will look into the sim card. I have no idea what that is, but I'll call them.

Hubby is home- going to spend time with him.

Dr. Harley on Admiration

Dr. Harley on Admiration

Admiration


If you have the need for admiration, you may have fallen in love with your spouse partly because of his or her compliments to you. Some people just love to be told that they are appreciated. Your spouse may also have been careful not to criticize you because criticism may hurt you deeply if you have this need.
Many of us have a deep desire to be respected, valued and appreciated by our spouse. We need to be affirmed clearly and often. There's nothing wrong with feeling that

Learn to meet the need of Admiration
way. Even God wants us to appreciate Him.

Admiration is one of the easiest needs to meet. Just a word of appreciation, and presto, you've made someone's day. On the other hand, it's also easy to be critical. A trivial word of rebuke can set some people on their heels, ruining their day and withdrawing love units at an alarming rate.

Your spouse may have the power to build up or deplete his or her account in your Love Bank with just a few words of admiration or criticism. If you are affected that easily, be sure to add admiration to your list of important emotional needs.

Back to Emotional Needs

The Most Important Emotional Needs


As soon as I realized that a large Love Bank balance triggered the feeling of love, I went to work trying to discover what spouses could do for each other that would make the largest Love Bank deposits. I would ask couples, "What could your spouse do for you that would make you the happiest?" That very question focused on a core issue in marriage -- the issue of care. I could have asked the question, "How would you like your spouse to care for you?" As it turns out, care in marriage is doing what it takes to make each other happy.

When you were married, you and your spouse both promised to care for each other, and you expected that care from each other. You were in love, and you were highly motivated to make each other happy. But it might not have occurred to you at the time that if you didn't care for each other the right way, you might lose your love for each other. And along with your loss of love, you might lose your willingness to care for each other.

At the time, you probably did not know what caring for each other the right way meant. You thought that your commitment to care for each other would be sufficient to sustain your love. Even today, you may still be in the dark as to what it takes to care for each other the right way.

If that's the case, let me explain to you what care in marriage is: To care the right way, you must make large Love Bank deposits. And I've found that the best way to make those deposits is to meet each other's most important emotional needs.

What is an emotional need? It is a craving that, when satisfied, leaves you with a feeling of happiness and contentment, and, when unsatisfied, leaves you with a feeling of unhappiness and frustration. There are probably thousands of emotional needs. A need for birthday parties, peanut butter sandwiches, Monday Night Football, I could go on and on. Some people have some of those needs while others have different needs. If you feel good doing something, or if someone does something for you that makes you feel good, an emotional need has been met.

But not all emotional needs are created equally. When some are met, you may only feel comfortable--they make small Love Bank deposits. There are others, however, that can make you feel downright euphoric. In fact they make you so happy that you're likely to fall in love with the person that meets them. I call those our most important emotional needs because they make the largest Love Bank deposits of all. And those are the very same emotional needs that a husband and wife expect each other to meet in marriage.

By now you can probably see where I'm headed. My first goal when counseling a couple is to help them identify their most important emotional needs. Once those needs are identified, I help them learn to meet those needs for each other. I want them to make the largest deposits possible into each other's Love Banks. If all goes well, they begin making those large deposits and eventually they are in love with each other.

When I first began using this approach to saving marriages, I didn't know what made people the happiest in marriage -- I didn't know what emotional needs would be the most important. So I had to ask hundreds of men and women that question, "What could your spouse do for you that would make you the happiest?"

As spouses explained what they wanted most, I classified their desires into emotional need categories. And almost all those I interviewed described one or more of only ten emotional needs as being most important to them (admiration, affection, conversation, domestic support, family commitment, financial support, honesty and openness, physical attractiveness, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment). Very few ever named a most important emotional need that was not included in this list of ten.

I also made a revolutionary discovery that helped me understand why husbands and wives tended not to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Whenever I asked couples to list their needs according to what they needed most, men would list them one way and women the opposite way. Of the 10 emotional needs, the five listed as most important by men were usually the five least important for women, and vice-versa.

What an insight! It is no wonder that husbands and wives have so much difficulty meeting each other's needs: They lack empathy. They are willing to do for each other what they appreciate the most, but it turns out that their efforts are misdirected. What they appreciate the most, their spouses appreciate the least!

Pay close attention to this next point I am about to make, because it is one of the most misunderstood aspects of my entire program.

Everyone is unique. While men on average pick a particular set of five emotional needs as their most important and women on average pick another set of five, any given man or woman can and do pick various combinations of the ten. So even though I know the most important emotional needs of the average man and woman, I don't know the emotional needs of any particular husband or wife.

I'm in the business of trying to save all marriages, not just average marriages, so I encourage each couple to ignore what I say about average male and female needs and identify those that are unique to them. That way each spouse's list of the most important emotional needs reflects what he or she appreciates the most. When they meet those needs for each other, they create the greatest happiness, and trigger a mutual feeling of love.

These conclusions are reflected in my book His Needs, Her Needs where I explain how couples build romantic love by learning how to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Readers are encouraged to identify these needs by using the Emotional Needs Questionnaire that I provide at the back of the book. Then I encourage them to become experts at meeting those needs. This questionnaire is also available to you on this website. Just click, Emotional Needs Questionnaire, to discover the most important emotional needs for you and your spouse. Be sure to print two copies so you and your spouse each have one.

Take what? What I'm writing you is simple truth. You've purposefully hurt two people in the most horrific manner in which they can be hurt and you're trying to walk away and leave one of your intentional victims unattended.

You continue your childish tantrums by coming here and launching a blanket attack on people who volunteer their time to try to help others.

I haven't been here for years; I probably won't be. These people lined up to help me when I was going through the anguish your husband is going through right now. I'm trying to pay back what was freely given me.

Like the others here, I don't care about your childhood and all the bad things all those mean people did to you. You are an adult. You made an adult decision with the full knowledge aforehand that your actions were going to be extremely destructive to your spouse, your extended family, and the family of the pig with whom you rutted. I don't feel in the least compelled to shield you from the full truth and consequences of your adult behavior, regardless of your past.

I am interested in helping to repair the damage you've done. That first means we attend to your victims. Once that's done, you will have shown evidence of true remorse and repentance and the work toward your true healing can begin.

I stand by what I wrote earlier; it's even more clear a couple of pages on from the original assessment: everything you're doing is geared toward helping yourself. You still haven't shown one iota of concern for your victims.

(Okay. You get partial credit for agreeing to look into the sim card. At least it seems you're considering doing the right thing.)

I did the Intelius search and came up with nothing that I didn't already know, which was his cell phone carrier and the state he lives in and the city.

When I called Intelius to cancel, I asked why there wasn't any more information than that and she told me it could be a restricted number.

What else can I do?

I don't need anyone to shield me, I deserve everything you have thrown at me. I'm a big girl and you are right, I did make choices to continue what I was doing. I did know it was wrong and I have made a mess of things.

What can I do to help my husband?
He doesn't want to know details. He says things like, I'm killing him. He's always been pretty closed off and this has made it worse. Plus, we just don't ever have that much time together. I'm just making myself available for him, even if it's to sleep next to at night.

I have been thinking back to even before we were married, and he never liked being touched. He would want to have sex, but as far as cuddling or hugging or just touching him, he can't unless it leads to sex. He's always been like that. Is that typical for some men? I have always wanted to be affectionate without him grabbing private areas.
He is really the only man I have known as an adult. Just a question... I'm just trying to figure out how to get closer to him mentally. He's always been like it's him against the world, instead of us being a team.
I have only alienated myself farther away.
Does anyone have any ideas?
I ordered His needs Her needs. I'm going to order SAA. I was trying to find them on ebay. They are cheaper there.
I wish I had came here before I did what I did, I know that wasn't the way to make anything better.
Keep bashing me. I (we) need a lot of help.

The thing to be careful with here, Goldi, is that you don't use this in any way to try and justify your A.

Pre-A, my H was exactly the same way. He did not like me touching him or being close, and sometimes would get up and move away or physically push me away from him. Me, I'm a clingy thing, and I love snuggling up and holding hands and the like.

Now, the appropriate way for me to have dealt with my EN of affection not being met would have been for me to be O&H with my H about it. Or I should have decided it was unacceptable before M, and ended our relationship. Instead, I chose the absolute most inappropriate way possible to deal with unmet EN's, I had an affair. So I feel you there, coming here before having an A would have made all the difference in the world.

H no longer physically pushes me away, but I'm to the point where I am super-tentative about making physical contact with him. My H has always been a very closed-off person as well, but one thing those of us who wear our hearts on our sleeves have to remember is that often it's a protective response. Of course he will be even more closed to you now, and perhaps he is justifying that response b/c of what you did (I may be perilously close to making a DJ here, if so, I hope some BS's can weigh in).

Right now, though, your first job is not to fix the problems present in the pre-A M. Your first responsibility is to heal the damage caused by your A. You need to meet your BH's ENs, as much as he allows. Maybe that is not much right now...but do what you can. *If* your BH commits to a plan of recovery, then the two of you can create a plan to meet each other's ENs and build romantic love.

As to the OM, I would hazard a guess that a PI - perhaps one in the city OM lives - could take the information you have and track him down.

Goldilocks, on my thread, you recently posted:Wanted to reply here on your thread, because it's relevant to your situation. Trying to end an affair without accountability isn't wise. Having one's spouse find out (and having the AP's spouse find out) puts extra sets of watchful eyes on the affairees. This doesn't assure recovery of the marriage, but it makes it a lot harder for an affair to resume. This was the point of the advice you received from people, re: telling your H, and now re: looking up OM's spouse.

Keep working.

[/quote]

The thing to be careful with here, Goldi, is that you don't use this in any way to try and justify your A.

[/quote]

Thanks Wulffpack girl. I'm not, and I appreciate your advice, it sounds like our husbands are similar in a few ways. I was wondering if I expected too much from my husband. I really don't know?

We are actually making a small amount of progress.

I have some hope!

Thank you GO, I'm working.

One of the hardest things I've ever had to do...

Hi Goldi - can you update us? You said you are working...what things have you been doing? If you're not doing the right things, then yes, you could be expecting too much from your BH. The folks here can help you figure out the right things to do to meet your BH's needs (is he willing to take the EN questionnaire?). You also talked about having an anger issue - what steps have you taken to address LB's? How is your BH responding to you - would he be willing to post here?