My husband has been involved in an affair for 3 1/2 years, on again off again, more on now than ever. She lives across the country, which makes it easy to keep up the fantasy escape romance. She is also married. Her husband pays the bills, lets her live at home with the kids, etc. No, he will not throw her out. Everything would change if he did, but I can't control that.

WH moved out a year and a half ago. Almost came home twice. OW talked him out of it. I have never wanted a divorce or believed it is the right thing to do. I see him be so different when he gets away from her. So sad. He is now trying to push a divorce through because she wants him to. He has never been so cold, dark, or cruel. He's even awful about the kids.

What do I do? Do I take control and do the divorce myself at this point? Do I stand back and make him be responsible for it if he wants it? Do I go into a Plan B and cut off all contact with him? And if I do Plan B at this stage of the game, pretty sure divorce is inevitable, do I still do a Plan B letter and say I love him and am willing to work on the marriage when the affair ends? Or is that just a joke at this point?

Also, exposure. Our families and friends know. I debate sending messages to OW 400 facebook friends. The affair started on facebook. I almost think it would backfire on me at this point, because I could totally see my husband saving her from it by coming up with some awful message about me - he's done that with our friends and family. His entire family has cut me off now, after loving me for 22 years. He's also threatened to post a couple of pictures that I would not want posted (things I trusted my husband with years ago), which he may or may not have in his possession, if I do anything to damage this affair. If it won't do any good and will only hurt me anyway, why bother?

Do affair partners seriously divorce spouses and marry each other often? If they do, do those marriages fall apart? Ugh. I hate this.

I'm so sorry rainysweet.

A couple of things. I would expose this affair because people need to know the truth about the real reason for the demise of your marriage. Please follow this because it gives you step by steps including facebook exposure. Exposure 101

Dr. Harley doesn't give affairages a good chance on lasting. We have had posters on here that their spouses married their affair partners. Listen to these radio clips Radio Clips on Affairages

I would start to prepare for Plan B but you need to do the best Plan A you can right before you go into Plan B. If you go to Plan B or Plan D I would never have contact again with your WH. You can see you are in such pain and this is because the affair has gone so long that I'm worried for your health. This is why Dr. Harley only recommends 3 weeks for BW of Plan A and you've been much longer.

Please see your doctor about AD's.
Please read these.
How To Plan B properly
Parallel Parenting
IM training school
Plan B letter samples

Thanks for the advice. How do I do Plan A at all right now if he doesn't live with me and doesn't see the kids? (I did Plan A without really knowing what it was, just instinctively, for several months when he was home. He ended the affair and was amazing for a few months. But she kept after him - it was before I discovered Dr. Harley or MB - finally got to him in a moment of weakness, he left, and it's been all downhill from there.

Should I try to make contact just to be kind or sweet for a few days while I get ready for Plan B? Our last contacts have been pretty ugly. I hate to leave it that way, but he is like a rock. It's like he refuses to let me get to him in any way, shape, or form.

Yes it's going to be tough but do the best you can to initiate contact and Plan A him while you're preparing for Plan B.

You want to leave the thoughts in your WH of the good things about you.
Carrot and Stick of Plan A

With him gone and you don't talk to him at all do you know how to get a hold of him? Know where he lives?

Since you have found MB have you been living seperately?

I would also see a lawyer to protect you. Does he pay CS to you?
Do your children know abuot his affair?
Please follow this.
Document. Document! Document!

The more I go back and read this I see that your WH has been in this affair for 3.5 years. I would get Plan B ready and see a lawyer.

Dr. Harley says the affairs usually die a natural death but he has had you and OW for 3.5 years and has been cake eating.

Have you talked to this OW's BH? What does he say?

Yes, he pays child support. We have a legal separation agreement. Yes, the kids have known for a long time. I have talked to OW's BH a few times, though not recently. He is part of the problem. She's a major cake eater. She lives at home, huge house, doesn't work, has her kids, her husband gives her a cushy life and takes care of the kids while my husband takes her on vacation. Total fantasyland. I've asked him to throw her out or do something, but he won't. He thinks he's doing what's best for his kids. The affair doesn't die because there's no reality. Especially now that my husband is not home. When he was, he could see the difference.

So you haven't had contact with your WH in how long?

I would get an IM so you do not have to deal with anything.

When's the last time the kids saw him? So no one is putting pressure on this affair? So sorry rs. They live in different countries so it's all by electronic and phone calls that they keep thier affair going?

I worry about your health. Have you been into see your doctor about AD's? Plan B is what you need to protect yourself and your health.

Do you have someone who can IM for you?

I read those links. I am really afraid of what he will do if I expose the affair on facebook - he can get very ugly when his drug supply is threatened. He has threatened to throw the kids out of their house, even take away their dog, unbelievable things. He's even been physically violent. Maybe it's worth the trade-off if it damages the affair, but I almost think it will just bond them together more against me. I think after this long most people who are close enough to do anything already know about it. Anyone who knows my husband does. He tells people himself at this point, like he's proud of it. She brags about it too. Her family and close friends all know.

Last I heard her children didn't know about it, although I don't know how they could not know with her taking off with him for days at a time all the time and everyone around them knowing. I could send the older 2 a facebook message, although that seems like kind of a low blow to innocent kids, even at their ages - 19 and 15 or 16, I think. Just makes me look bad.

Not if you write the exposure like it is written in the exposure 101 thread that Melodylane put together. It will let people know the truth.

Her kids must be told. If people want to be in denial like her BH this is something you can not control.

Has your WH been physical violent with you or the kids? You need to protect yourself. Dr. Harley recommends two reasons for immediate seperation physical abuse and infidelity that will not stop.

Can you put a protective order out on him?

Listen to this radio clip on Dr. Harley telling children even as young as four.
Radio clip on telling children as young as four
Read this article by Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers about the lessons children learn on infidelity.
Infidelity:The Lessons Children Learn

I've read Jennifer's article. I will listen to the clip, though I think I did once before. I totally agree with him, and I told my children. But these are not my children that I'm talking about telling.

My husband just isn't himself anymore. He can be very ugly. I looked into getting a protective order, but I didn't have enough proof. It would have just made him mad. He is simply hardened the last 4 months, since the last time he almost came home and then didn't. Like an out of control drug addict. Which, I suppose, he is. I guess maybe it's just time to be done, as sad as that makes me. Maybe he will go do real life with the OW, reality will crash down around him, and maybe he will be more like himself again. At least that would benefit my children.

I think you definitely need to protect you and your children from him.

Can you get an IM? You would write the Plan B letter and you can start to work on this.

Did you say your WH is also a drug addict? This is another senario where Dr. Harley says MB will not work is with an active addict such as alcohol.

Ok, I missed one message up there. Sorry. I have not completely cut off contact. He sent me unpleasant text messages this weekend while he was with her, demanding a divorce and saying he never loved me. I talked to him earlier this week briefly, tried to keep it light and pleasant. We live in one state - he does not live with the children and me, but about 5 miles away, and she lives 2000 miles away in another state, with her family.

They text, email, facebook, talk all day - he's like a chain smoker with his cell phone. Presently they fly back and forth about every other week and spend 3-4 days together typically - all vacation. No, there's no pressure on the affair. Her husband lives with it. My husband's family has even accepted the OW in and cut my children out. My children avoid talking to him at all if they possibly can.

He demanded the kids spend Easter with him. 2 of my sons finally went just to shut him up and keep peace, basically. It wasn't pleasant, but they endured it. That was his last contact with the kids. Before that, it was probably 2 or 3 months since he had spent any time at all with any of them. None of my children want to see him. They hate him, and he spends the whole time texting the OW when they are with him - it's miserable for them. He also has pictures of the 2 of them together plastered everywhere, which I think is emotionally damaging to the kids to have to see. I've asked him to protect them from it, but at this point he doesn't care about anything anymore except the OW and staying high on the affair. He pretty much doesn't care about even seeing the kids, except once in awhile when he seems to have some sudden freak out empty feeling and wants them to fill it for him. But he's never there when they need him, and they have all given up on him.

I can probably get my husband's brother and his wife to IM for me. They are the only family members who still love me and my kids, but have an okay relationship with him too. They could present as neutral I think, for the benefit of the kids especially. Yes, I'm on AD, and so are 2 of my children. The other 2 probably should be, but refuse. My health has gone steadily downhill. I just had to have unexpected surgery in fact, and I've always been healthy. So, you're right. This is getting to me.

In Nov/Dec we saw each other often, talked almost daily, texted, he asked me to dinner all the time, we had long talks about the kids, he told me the affair was going to end and talked about coming home. He was sweet, kind, tender, loving, worried about the kids, made effort with me and with them for the first time in months. He said he was sorry for everything, he knew the OW never loved him and that I always had, he said he loved me, that he didn't blame me for anything, that he saw how much damage he had done to his children. It was like he came out of the fog for awhile and was himself again.

I was a little wary, guarded, taking it slow. Then he left to go see the OW for Christmas, which was horrible for the kids - and me. A shocker after the changes in him. I finally sent her a letter and told her I wasn't going anywhere. A mistake, I guess, as that triggered this huge downward spiral with her threatening and controlling him, suddenly wanting to keep him since she wasn't going to "win" - that's her mentality, him going crazy to hold onto the affair suddenly, all of it exploding more out of control than ever, and now she runs him - he does everything she says, including sending me messages she dictates and trying to force me to sign divorce papers. His heart is a rock, he says he hates his own kids. Just sad and ugly. Deceives, hardens, destroys. We are at "DESTROYS." Heartbreaking.

I guess I just do Plan B and if he forces the divorce, so be it? Do I write a letter to him about it? What do I say?

Or do I just give up and do the divorce myself at this point, cut him out of my life and heart, and be done? I really should have virtually no reason to talk to him in that situation - we do still own a rental house together that I can't alter, so an occasional business issue or something maybe, which I could probably have my brother-in-law mediate. Hopefully he will just leave the kids alone, and Dr. Harley advised me not to make them go with him if they don't want to unless I am compelled by the court.

Would you try to do any Plan A? Leave him with anything pleasant? Or just enough is enough and he can have his soulmate?

No, he's not a literal drug addict. Sorry. He is a sex addict, and the affair is all part of that. I meant the OW is a "drug" to him.

rainysweet,

I think you need to get into Plan B ASAP. Your WH is doing more damage to you and your children.

Please get an IM together. You saw the link I provided?

Write a Plan B letter. Post it here for feedback. This will help. Plan B letter samples

Please listen to Dr. Harley and don't make your children see him and also this. Parallel Parenting

Just because you're in Plan B doesn't mean you have to sign the divorce papers, but if you think your WH will get ugly please get a lawyer to protect you.

I fear you may be suffering from PTSD.

Okay. Thank you for all your time and advice.

I think you're right. I think my children and I are all suffering from PTSD. I did have a counselor tell me that they likely were. I didn't think about the possibility that I was too, but it seems reasonable after all this.

Yes, I've read all the links you provided. Very helpful. Thank you.

I will work on the letter. I have read the samples. But if we are this close to divorce, would you still say that I am willing to work on the marriage when the affair ends? I am. In my heart, I would still work to save my marriage if he ended the affair and was willing to as well. He is a completely different person "out of the fog." And my children miss the man who was their father also. But I almost wonder if that's more promise of "cake" for him if I say it, if he knows he can keep his wife and family hanging on while he stays in this affair inevitably. Maybe it's better to just tell him that I can no longer be in contact with him and leave it at that?

I would put that you're willing to work on the marriage as long as the affair ends and he is willing to meet your conditions that you will state in your Plan B letter.

You will put your conditions in the letter. I would also add he needs to be in a successful anger management program. Ends all contact with OW for life.

Post your letter here so we can help you.

I'm worried about you my friend.

I think you will find these articles very enlightened.

When to Call it Quits #1
When to Call it Quits #2
When to Call it Quits #3

That is the path I would take, rainysweet. Dr Harley says if the affair doesn't end in 2 years, you should give up. You need to divorce him and move on. There is nothing to save here. Sorry.

Give up?

She has never exposed.

She should expose fully before she decides on plans A, B, or D.

She said her families and friends know.

Naw, exposure won't make any difference whatsoever. He is long gone.

He is threatening to post photos of her (I assume intimate?), he's been out of the house for almost 2 years, this man is just cruel. I think the OP's mental health is going downhill if this continues and it is getting to the point where the children are watching their mother die a slow death by abuse.

She exposed to her children, the OW's BH(who said he wouldn't kick her out) and others. This affair has been going on for 3.5 years she tried to Plan A for a short time before Christmas until he resumed his affair. He has moved out. A therapist believe her children are suffering from PTSD. He also has major anger issues.

This poor woman has suffered long enough.

Harley says if the affair hasn't ended and there has been no reconciliation in 2 years, that the situation is hopeless. She needs to move on. File for divorce and go into Plan B.

Rainysweet,

her husband gives her a cushy life and takes care of the kids while my husband takes her on vacation. Total fantasyland.

You need to expose to every single one of her facebook friends, do not waver in you purpose, she is keeping your WH addicted to her, but once your WH is divorced and destroyed will lose interest in him. Her children need to be told the entire truth as well.

She sounds like an extremely vain person and the one thing such a person prizes is their public reputation and standing. If you destroy those then the associations she has of the affair will be entirely negative.

You've been too nice about this horrible affront to you and the destruction of your childrens family.

She will never leave her H who provides well for a man who is strapped down paying child support. She will find another OM soon if she hasn't started down that path already.

God Bless
Gamma

Rainy, I am so sorry that you have found yourself in this situation.

Have you spoken to a lawyer to find out your legal rights? If not, you should, ASAP. You will want to get exclusive rights to your home, so your WH can't use that against you and your children. You are going to want a legal arrangement for CS, and possibly SS.

As soon as you can, I would get into Plan B. You can expose after you have entered PB, and I would suggest that.

Can you see how you are already on the path to divorce right now anyways? Entering Plan B will help you be able to heal. There is a always a chance that you and your WH will remarry, but by then, you may not want him.

To answer this question, yes, they do. And yes, they almost ALWAYS fall apart, for a host of reasons. I have heard Dr Phil say that marriages born from an infidelity have a 92% failure rate. But I think I have seen links to what Dr Harley says here where he indicates it is an even greater failure rate, with the reasons why.

What you need here is a PLAN. Seems to me you have been in Plan Doormat for a very, very long time. Your WH is a cake eater, and you are serving him up on a silver platter. You deserve better, and your children deserve better. Expose that nasty OW!!! And do a dark Plan B. Take away your half of the cake. You are right, your WH is not living with reality, and he needs a good dose of it. You removing yourself from the picture will start that process...then he will be 100% available to the OW and will she want that given her cushy life? Is she willing to leave the comforts of her sitch for him? Either way you need to remove yourself from the situation for YOU and your children who need out of this drama. There are some GREAT Plan B vets on here who will guide you along the way.

Agree. He is paying CS and they already have a legal seperation.

Thank you all for food for thought.

The affair did end once, almost a year after I found out, after doing everything I could to meet his needs for several months. Easier that she lives so far away. (I did not find MB until after we had been separated for a few months). I don't believe it was a false recovery. I believe it was genuine, but he relapsed. He was a completely different man - his whole heart and soul were in our marriage and family. He was the best husband and father he had ever been, told me he was going to work his whole life to make up for his stupid mistake. But he is a sex addict, and she kept after him. If I had found MB then, I would have insisted on extreme precautions, but I didn't know to do that. I think that would have saved us. We had a couple of bad days, she happened to pick that particular time to keep calling him, and he left.

Even after he left, it took him months to really be caught up in this fog again. So he has been gone for 1 1/2 years. He almost came home in July and Dec 2011. Both times she talked him out of it. Do I give it 6 more months? It seems like when he almost pulls out, and then gets sucked back in, it's worse than ever for awhile (an addiction) until he starts to come out of the fog and sober up a little. Dr. Harley told me a few months ago that it was almost like a new affair with it ending after nearly 2 years for several months, and then starting up again - so 1 1/2 years since the re-start.

This is a 22-year marriage with 4 kids in the middle. If it ends like this, in such an awful state, he will be cut off from his children forever I'm pretty sure. He and I will never be able to be civil to each other, attend things for our grandchildren together (the kids wouldn't want him there anyway). Nothing. It is so sad for me to see what he has dragged it down to the last 4 months. It was never this bad before. He says our whole marriage was a nightmare, he never wanted the kids, I'm the worst person in the world, I was such a horrible wife, I deserve all this, the kids are either fine and I'm blowing it out of proportion if I say otherwise, or they are spoiled immature brats who need to buck up and deal with life (kinda ridiculous for him to say that to them, isn't it?), back to the other woman is his soulmate, so amazing, such an effortless relationship (in Dec he said he knew she had never loved him or cared about him at all, that real life never would have worked with her - bizarre how his thinking gets so twisted again). I hate for it to end in such a dark, ugly, awful place for all of us, with nothing left intact at all of love or goodness, happy memories, nothing.

Rainy, this affair has gone on way longer than 2 years, so of course, you should not wait longer. Your marriage already has come to this, you just ave to accept it. Plan a is not intended to be a way of life, but a very short 3 week plan. It is time to face reality, dear.

I meant do Plan B and give it 6 more months before I file, but he may push it through sooner anyway.

Do you think still expose on facebook, even though most people know by now and there could be ugly repercussions to me? Is it worth the risk for possible damage to her?

I disagree with FB exposure at this time. Your family and friends already know, he hasn't lived in your house for 1.5 year and he is threatening to release photos of you? I don't see how Facebook friends (who are likely people he doesn't even know well) is going to help at all. You've already exposed to those who mattered.

Rainysweet, please don't worry about your children if you divorce. Your children have seen you be abused long enough, you have taught them right from wrong and it should not be too difficult of a situation for them.

Having been in a similar position myself (as the child), my child (grandchild) has an awesome relationship with the grandparents who demonstrate love and respect. The one who shows no love and respect is not in his life, and that was an easy choice. Children do not have the same emotional attachment that the BS has (obviously they do have an attachment but it's different), it's easier for a child to say no to the abuser when they are an adult themselves.

Yes, you're right. It has been easier for the kids to cut him out of their hearts at this point than it has been for me. Thank you.

Someone just said on here earlier (I dont know how to cut and paste it) that the OW is obviously vain (total narcissist is more like it) and that exposing HER on facebook (not so much my husband, wouldn't do a lot to him) might do some damage. She is extremely hypocritical and tries to keep up a front of being this amazing Christian woman - wife and mother - to some people, while bragging to others about her philandering, how she got my husband away from his family and he can't live without her. As I said, her family and close friends all know at this point, somehow she has this affair all tied in with how they were meant to be and God brought them together (feel free to vomit).

I guess I'm just thinking out loud. I guess the risks outweigh any possible benefits. She is who she is, and hopefully someday that comes back around to bite her, and him.

I have 4 great kids to be grateful for. I just wish they had not had to go through all this. It has damaged them. But maybe a clean break is what we all need.

RS, I just checked out your other threads and you were STRONGLY advised to move into Plan B last year and it seemed that you were heading in the direction and then ???

How long are you going to let this go on? What is the plan here?

Your poor children have one wayward parent, and they need you to be as healthy as possible, not on the verge of an emotional breakdown. Enough is enough.

I was advised to go into Plan B, and I didn't feel right about it then. He was pretty bad at the time, when I first got on here, but then he pulled out of it to a large extent. It's almost like he's 2 people. He is a different man when he gets some space from the OW.

After I first got that advice several months ago, I did get some space from him and try to pull myself together. He was going to come home in July after I had pulled back for a bit, but then didn't. After that I tried a different marriage program that honestly felt more right to me. I tried to work on myself and re-establish a connection with my husband, try to rebuild love and draw him back in, without trying to control him or let him hurt me. It was good for both of us. It did make a difference, as there was a huge change in him in Nov/Dec, so I'm not sorry I did it. I wanted to feel like I had done everything I could. That's part of why this is so sad for me, because we reconnected and I and my children all saw a lot of hope. We saw him be him again. I don't think that was damaging to them. It's also part of why I feel torn. That worked once, but I let fear get the better of me and didn't react right when I had a window. Since I have mostly pulled away from him the last 4 months, he's landslided down to the worst he's ever been. I don't know if that was a mistake, if I should have tried to keep doing the loving things I had been doing and stay connected to him. These are conflicting programs to some extent, I know, and apparently they don't want me to mention the other one because it's been edited out in another post.

But the last 4 downhill months have been awful, more damaging than the rest of this combined to my children and me, I'm sure. I feel like it's probably a different place, too low to draw him back from, and maybe Plan B of Dr. Harley's program was what I needed now. But I still wanted some advice and thoughts on all of it.

Thanks.

Wow. I just read back through some of my posts. I forgot - I got on here after he did NOT come home in July, not before. And I had forgotten how bad he was then. But I thought cutting him off would only send him further into the affair, so I tried something else. Which, as I said, worked - or almost. We actually reconnected and I saw his heart again, my kids saw their dad again.

But now he's sucked under big time.

Hi rainy,

I would move forward with D. No spouse or marriage is worth all costs. I know it is hard but your life will improve even if you can't see it now. You need out of this toxic situation. Prayers and hugs to you.

This makes me so very sad reading this, rainy, because I see now that your feelings led you astray. It was not good for you at all as evidenced by the result. All it did was prop up the affair for a while longer while tearing you down emotionally and physically more and more. IT did nothing to help you personally or your marriage.

You speak alot about being led by your "feelings" ["this didn't feel right" "this marriage program felt right to me.."] and this is why you are so paralyzed. Feelings have no intelligence and you can see they have led you to a terrible place.

Once again, I fear your feelings are leading you to avoid the inevitable - divorce - even more. I think your husband knows you won't do anything to stop him, so this gives him the reassurance he needs to go out and pursue his affair for another day.

Please set aside your feelings and follow a sane path out of this nightmare. There is absolutely no reason to live like this and even less cause to wait to file for divorce. There is nothing to hope for in this situation.

You have allowed yourself to be sucked under with him. I hope you realize that.

Rainysweet - You are NOT responsible for your WH's behavior. You can NOT save him. He has to do it himself. Please STOP blaming yourself.

Take care of yourself, so you will be able to focus on what is important, yourself and the kids.

Be well!

I am sorry but I don't believe this. You posted last July about the fact that he had ended the A but refused to give up pictures of the OW and other "trinkets" from the affair. We all told you this was unacceptable and you agreed, saying that you knew that but needed validation. You later posted about exposure and being in Plan C because you seemed to acknowledge that he was still wayward.

I am sorry to be harsh but not facing reality is not going to help you.

It is possible to become addicted to the drama the waywards and the A create...or so entrenched in it that it is hard to break away. I think that's where you are. And your emotional health and your children's are suffering because of it and it's only going to get worse if you don't start move into Plan B.

I am hoping to see posts from you talking about who you will be using as an IM and your PB letter, etc, not more posts about your WH and the OW and the A. Because the A isn't the problem anymore, you have no control over that ~ it is the lack of action to protect yourself and your children at this point...

AMEN! Please read this again, rainy. Susie is right. Your H is not the problem. It is YOU. You have been following your feelings and that has precluded the use of logic and reason. Feelings have no intelligence, feelings are not truth.

Rainy, now that you have tried it your way, why not give MB a real chance?

Get into Plan B. Even if you decide that you want to Plan D, I would Plan B at the same time. You don't need to be anywhere near him.

Your WH has been gaslighting you and you are heading for a nervous breakdown if you do not remove yourself from the drama.

Post haste (as fast as possible).

Please keep posting here and craft a plan and stick to it.

just adding another voice here. rainy, you MUST go into plan b. you MUST. you need to make a plan and act on it. you have got to get into a place where you can push feelings aside. stop hanging on to that false recovery! gf, you deserve so much better than this. you *have* done your part. it is now time to cut him off and heal yourself. you don't have to file for D yet (though you can and then drag it out), but you need to start taking positive steps for you and your children. you are fortunate that your kids are old enough to see right through him - let them be support for you. but to do so, you have to support them. it must be very hard to be trying to help you when they don't know when the abuser is coming back or not.

now get going on your to-do list.
see a lawyer
get yourself protected financially and child-wise
organise your IM
write your plan b letter
figure out the holes where he can contact you and close them
inform your children of your plan and ask for their support
tell your family and friends of your plan and ask for their support

then come back and tell us where you are at w/the plan. don't forget to post your plan b letter so we can help you w/it. you want to do this right, right? goodness knows you've tried everything else thus far, and none of it has worked. chin up, girl!

Okay. I get it:) Thanks for the tough love. I will work on a Plan B letter and getting my own life in order.

Okay, I'm going to ask an unpopular question. I agree that my situation is probably to the Plan B point.

But in general, this bothers me. This is supposed to be a "Marriage Builders" website, but it seems like almost all advice I read moves people toward divorce. There seem to be far more divorces on here than successful reconciliations. Yes, you have to take care of yourself and your children, I get that.

But does Plan B really help to rebuild marriages? Or just help dissolve them?

i'm no expert here. PB is about YOU. healing you from the pain you have experienced, and also protecting your LB should you H finally get his head out of his you-know.

in my case, PB gave, as i said on someone else's thread, my H electro-shock therapy. once he realised i was DEAD SERIOUS about our M, he know he had to pull finger and put our M first and foremost. this includes, of course, putting the BS first and foremost. being strong about your position as W, and putting the bar high for your M, forces your WS to poop or get off the pot (sorry for the crudeness). yes, sometimes they choose poop. but you can't do anything about that. you can only take care of you.

i don't think we see a number of Ds. if you're only browsing the SAA board, you may see some, because the posters here are either in the first stages of shock, or in the middle of the A and still struggling. but yes, sometimes a D is necessary or you will be in PC forever. that sounds like hell to me.

Marriage Builders does save marriages, but it is not a marriage at all costs program. Marriage Builders does not "dissolve" marriages, rainy. Your husband has done that by leaving the marriage for his OW. He is gone.

Your marriage cannot be saved alone obviously. You cannot force your husband to come back into your marriage. There is no program on earth - not even GOD - will force your husband to end his affair and come back against his will.

Divorce would be the definition of success in your case.

In these cases, the best solution for you is to accept the reality that your marriage has ended. Plan B does not "save marriages." And no one ever suggested any such thing. Plan B only serves to protect you from your husbands abuse.

rainy, do you believe your marriage can be saved against your husbands will?

How would that work exactly?

p.s. your own lack of action has served to prop up the affair for a very long time. I don't know if he would have ever come back, but by coddling him all these years, you removed any possible motivation he might have had for ending his affair. He would have been crazy to give up having 2 women meet his needs.

And by pursuing him all this time, you have made yourself look more unattractive to him. Like Harley has said over and over again, men do not react well to being pursued and it rarely works. But you have learned that the hard way.

I say this out of compassion, rainy. I am not trying to be mean, but it is important that you face the reality of your situation.

I have not been around in awhile due to my recent D, but this is not true. However, there is a point where D becomes the best decision unless you want to stay on the crazy train with Plan Hope indefinetely.

I am sorry but this doesn't make any sense.

There is a large section of this website dedicated to recovering the M if the WS gets on board. If you have seen advice contrary to this, please point it out.

Plan B is for the BS whose WS won't commit to a plan of recovery or end the A.

Are looking for a "plan" to rebuild the M if the WS is still continuing the affair?

rainysweet,

There are some cultures/religions that require you to stay married to your husband no matter how badly he abuses you or your children. MB is not part of that. Right now, you seem to be of the mind that if you keep up with this, he will eventually change his mind and come back to reality. There comes a point where you need to recognize that this IS his reality, that he is not the man you married, that he is an abusive jerk and truthfully, your children are suffering. Please do not be the kind of woman that puts the hope(lessness) of a man changing ahead of providing a safe loving home for her children.

Rainy,

Keep in mind that you are on the Surviving an Affair board. The MB concepts are all encompassing concepts that create love in a marriage. There are other boards that are general marriage building boards based on the concepts where you will probably see less dramatic/traumatic situations and a much lower divorce rate.

However, when there is an affair present, which has an extreme affect on a marriage (as if I need to tell you that), there is a specific plan implemented to rebuild the marriage, and/or PROTECT THE BS from further harm. As Melody Lane said, it is not 'marriage at all cost.' I don't think anyone would be here supporting a program like that.

Thanks, everyone.

I am sorry, RS, to call you out on this but we must help you out of your own BS fog.

I don't think you do "get it".

Your children are on ADs and by your own admission, your WH has been horrible to them...and they have also had to endure watching your health deterioriate over the past three years. They probably have no idea what their future holds... What a nightmare!

You should be alarmed, RS. If my children were on ADs, I would be extremely alarmed! Yet...the focus is on OW, WH & the A when there is clearly nothing that you can do about this?

I went into Plan B shortly after dday 3 last year. I am not on ADs and neither are my children. They are doing as well as could be expected. We are very active and busy, and we try not to think or talk about STBX and his craziness. They know that we are going to be OK and that they are my top priority.

You need to be sending your children a different message, RS.

**hugs**

I've read Dr. Harley's books, and some things on this site. But where does he say specifically that women should only do Plan A for 3 weeks, and should not "pursue" their husbands? Those things? I would like to read more of that specific advice from him, but not sure where it is. Thanks.

It takes two to build a marriage. When only one is willing, and that one has tried to get the other to become willing, without success, for so long that her emotional state and/or health are deteriorating, Plan B is the best alternative possible. What alternatives do you think would work out better? Trying to make him cooperate? Continuing to try to win him over with techniques that have proven not to work? Bouncing back and forth between anger and irrational contentment in the face of an affair, getting worse and worse with each cycle until you explode, while your children suffer and you become increasingly unable to take care of them?

rainy, Dr. Harley has said this several times. He says it frequently on his radio show, and he's on the record saying it on this website multiple times. I'll see if I can dig up a link, but I'll bet MelodyLane will have one faster than I can get one.

MelodyLane has been on this site longer than (almost) any other active member, and has made tens of thousands of posts, been on Dr. Harley's radio show several times, and has listened to every broadcast hour of his show.

found here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit.html

And that's in a non-infidelity situation.

Look, if you want to stay in limbo, that's fine for you, but incredibly unfair to your children. Did you read SAA?

Dr. H says women need to not do plan A too long in order to protect their health.

That women are not able to do long plan As because it is not in their nature. (Men are competitive and able to handle it longer).

He also says that men are by nature the ones to pursue the woman. That it is not alluring to men to be pursued.

Plan A is to show your best self in the worse of circumstances and then you go to Plan B to heal and refocus on being out of the nightmare.

You can argue that you might be able to win him back to the marriage but......you have tried. Now, you must turn away from him and the mess and get on with your own life. If the affair ends once and for all, he will know how to find you (an intermediary will let him know).

Reading, do you have links or page #s for her? I don't have SAA, although in the link I posted there are page #s for in the SAA book referring to plan a/b.

Regarding my children and ADs: My WH has bipolar disorder - part of the problem; he's off his medication. 2 of my children show signs of that; part of the reason they are on ADs. I'm sure the situation has aggravated it, but they are also genetically predisposed to anxiety/mood disorders.

You are all correct. I haven't been on this site in awhile. Yes, I've read SAA - just went through it again, in fact.

I agree that my focus needs to move away from WH and more onto myself and my children.

I will work on my Plan B letter tonight, and work toward getting things in order to do a dark Plan B.

Thanks.

rainy, Dr Harley says this all the time on the radio show. I am posting one of his quotes about the length of Plan A and he tells women all the time how pursuing their WH is unattractive and ineffective. [it is, but you already know this] He told Caracal, a regular poster this on the radio. Her thread is right here on SAA.

Thanks. I haven't listened to many radio broadcasts. I thought SAA just said 6 months, not specific to men or women. When he lived with us, Plan A was working, and not affecting me more adversely than I thought leaving would, so I kept at it.

All in the past now, and time to move on. Thank you.

rainy, I wanted to clarify my answer about saving marriages. Marriage Builders saves the marriages of willing people.

It does not and cannot force someone to recover a marriage against his will. No program can do that.

Document everything from here on out and take him for all the child support you can get. He's a bum. And he's abusive.

There's life after divorce. You'll be SO relieved when you're not consumed with his nonsense anymore. You only live once.

Let the bum go.

I realize that. And I know it takes 2 people to really make a marriage work. But I do believe that 1 person can make a difference and possibly encourage or inspire the other person to get on board. (That's Plan A, right?)

I wasn't trying to force him, just draw him back in. Also, I wanted to know I had done everything I could to show love to him, for me, my kids, and for him. So that he can't blame me for this. He did tell me in December that he didn't blame me for anything, he knew I loved him and had more than proved that. I wanted him to know in his heart that he willfully walked away from a loving wife who was willing to do her part to make this marriage the best it's ever been. He knows that.

But at this point, he's going to have to decide to turn his own life around. I've done all I can. You're all correct. Time to let go. It's just sad, because I remember who he was, and it breaks my heart.

I am sad. But I am at peace, I think - at least getting close - with myself and my efforts to save my marriage. You're right; it's time he felt the full impact of his choices. He's lost his family, and he needs to feel the full force of that. And my children and I have brighter things to look forward to.

Yes, and that can be done in a couple of weeks. It takes no longer than a couple of weeks to tell a WS that you would be willing to do your best to meet his needs in the future if he ended the affair.

I am relieved you are letting go and making a decision to move forward. You will feel so much better in about 3 to 4 weeks that you will be asking whyohwhy didn't I do this sooner??? By removing yourself from this situation you will gain a much clearer perspective and be able to exercise sound judgement. And most of all, you will have some peace of mind.

What you can expect when you go dark is for your H to test your boundaries to see if you are serious. He will say and do anything to get you to break your Plan B because he won't like losing control of you. He will say things like "how can we work on things if we don't speak??" Anything to avoid ending his affair and committing to making the marriage work. So I just want to caution you about this. Waywards HATE losing control of the BS so bad that we have had them threaten the BS in court. So just be prepared to block his attempts. You shouldn't have an issue if you choose a strong, neutral intermediary. [don't choose a family member!]

Okay. Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks, TE and ML. And BH, and everyone who has given me sound advice. I guess I needed some support in the right direction.

The OW is pushing so hard for divorce now, maybe I can get more out of him. You're right, TE, he is a bum. I deserve better. So do my children. And he deserves exactly what he's going to get. He's had every opportunity to turn his life around and come back to a family who loves him. Anyone stupid enough to throw that away for some spoiled rotten bimbo who wants to run his life deserves the hell he's setting himself up for.

Rainy, even if you were going by DrH's advice in SAA, with 6 months of PA, you are well past that point.

You need to go into Plan B because it will help save you from the emotional turmoil that you have been going through.

Rainy

I plan B'd. My spouse and I are happily together, and mostly recovered.
We do better every day.

But both spouses have to want it. And work for it. And Plan B was for me- not him.

rainysweet,

Please, for your own health and the health of your children(you have two already that have been dx with PTSD) do what's in the best interest for you and your children.

Their health and well being is left up to you. Plan B will protect both you and them. Especially if you listen to what Dr. H told you and do not make the kids go with him.

He doesn't try and see them or talk to them.

Actions speak louder than words my friend. You have been in this for 3.5 years now. PTSD is very serious.

RidicSit, thank you for telling me that. It makes me feel better, even though my situation doesn't look good. More like it is the right thing, I guess, if some marriages do pull through it.

Yes, everyone, I'm working on Plan B. I have a few details that have to be ironed out first - I don't want to start it until everything is in order. I work full time, am still recovering from surgery, and I'm obviously a single parent, so it may take a few days, but I'm on it. Just got home, late night, but going to at least get a start on Plan B letter.

He called 3 times in a row tonight - home from vacation with OW apparently. I have no idea what he wants - to be nice or horrible, business or personal, talk about divorce, whatever. But I turned off my phone. I hate the feeling I get, that gut-wrenching anxiety when I see it's him calling. It will be a relief to be done with that, I realize. I just didn't want to talk to him, had nothing to say, wasn't up for listening to him. Figured ignoring him was best. I feel just a little bit empowered:) Praying he doesn't show up at the house. So far, so good.

I feel good about disconnecting from him.

This is why Plan B is so important for you. See what it does to you just seeing his call? You will need to change your number and emails and all contact information.


You have all the links I posted to you, correct?

You need to set a Plan B launch date.
Get an IM.
Work on that Plan B letter. We can help you with it, just post it here.

I cant express the urgency enough for you. You will begin to truly heal from his abuse.

One thing - the IM is a concern. He's made things so ugly that friends are pretty divided. His friends who do not know me well (mostly work friends - he doesn't have a lot of real close friends) have all apparently been swayed that I'm a monster and the poor man had no choice but to run away from me into the rescuing arms of his soulmate. No help there, obviously.

I really try not to talk about him much with my friends, but they know what's going on, as do our mutual friends. Friends who are close enough that I could ask them to be IMs are upset enough or baffled enough by his behavior that I don't know that any of them could do it and be non-partisan.

I mentioned in here earlier my husband's brother and his wife - they seem the logical choice to me. But everyone says no family. I can see why that recommendation, but I don't feel like I have a lot of options. He has made this a very emotionally charged thing, and virtually forced people to "choose sides," something I tried very hard to avoid doing to anyone.

I have always been very close to my sister-in-law (his brother's wife) and their family. I really feel like they are mature and emotionally stable people who could work as a united front to keep things neutral and screen and relay pertinent information between us in a non-emotional way. They love me and the kids, and are supportive of us. They both think what my husband is doing is wrong, and have actually cut off a lot of contact with the rest of the family in support of us (NOT at my request, just to clarify, but simply because they disagree so strongly with my husband's own divorced parents, and partly his sisters too, accepting or even condoning this affair), but they have also tried to maintain a relationship with my husband and offer him love and personal support, though not support in what he is doing.

Maybe it's not fair to them, or not a good idea to ask them. They could possibly tell me they feel too uncomfortable to do it. I could see my husband being furious that I put a member of his family in the middle of it, and that causing more problems for everyone.

My only other option is to maybe reduce communication to 1 form - tell him to please only send a simple text or email (I would choose one and block him from the other) with regard to any pertinent financial info (I don't think I'm even going to say kid info at this point - they don't want to see him and I see no need to invite it unless he pushes it legally), and to avoid contacting me at all unless absolutely necessary.

One other thought is that while he was with OW this weekend, he did send me a text saying that he would write up a divorce offer giving me more CS if I would go sign it - he would have it to my lawyer by today, he just wants out. I'm sure the text was at her insistence (although bizarre she would agree to give up more of his money - either her need to control is greater than her thirst for cash, or she has a solid plan to milk her husband dry), no idea if he will follow through. My lawyer hasn't seen anything. Could have been blowing smoke, just pacifying her and not intending to do it, or maybe that's what he called about tonight. But I could wait a few days while I get everything else ready for Plan B and see if he actually produces said agreement. If he does, and I sign it, that should cement financial matters so that I can ask him not to contact me at all.

Just to avoid confusion - we do have a legal separation agreement, and he does pay me child support. But most of it goes away in 2 years with our current agreement, leaving me with virtually no support for our youngest child, who will still have 4 years left at home at that point. This child has Asperger's and some additional needs - somewhat minor, but above the needs of the average kid. I can't work 2 jobs and just leave him on his own, even in high school. It would relieve a great deal of my anxiety if I knew I would have enough money to keep him in his house until he graduates from high school. I have told WH many times that his youngest son is also his son, and that he deserves to have a house before the OW gets to lie by the pool for the rest of her life. He knows if she has to get off her tush and get a job it's all over. (Seriously, how can this thing not blow up once I'm out of the picture and she has him all to herself? When they can quit focusing on making me into a monster they're going to have to see some reality of what they each got themselves into, and that's got to be a rude awakening).

Any thoughts on all this?

Yes, BH, I have all the links and have read them all. I will refer to them again as needed in the coming days. Thank you.

Do you have a lawyer?

My thoughts.....
having an IM is crucial. Texting and emails, even few and far between are too painful for you.
If you can not think of any one else in the next few days, using your BIL/SIL might work. It might work if you let them know that you are suffering from any direct contact with WH and need to protect your health by having a third party communicate factual financial/child issues for you. Ideally, you can find another IM.

Make sure you have finances squirreled away in case you need to use them and for a security zone so you don't panic and break plan B to talk about dire straits with WH.

Also.....do not discuss divorce directly with WH. Any time he tries to discuss it, tell him your lawyer is the correct venue for discussions about it. You do have a lawyer of you own? If not, get one. He/She will be your representative in legal matters with your WH.

Once you are in Plan B, your WH can enjoy his freedom and keep the D going.

You can heal and do not need to make any decisions about anything until you choose to. Your lawyer can tell you when things need to be signed for legal reasons and you can ruminate what conditions you need to have noted in settlements. You can do what is best for you and the children and WH will need to fend for himself.

Hopefully, you will feel better and WH will leave you alone to recover.

And, you never know what the future will bring.

Don't sign anything especially in a rush. It is typical for a WS to say he wants the D ASAP and then nada. Or when he gets an agreement/decree from your attorney...he is now suddenly in not such a hurry, confused, is re-thinking what he said he would agree to, etc. A divorce will not happen overnight or in a few days so don't let WH pressure you to sign anything. Legal agreements are binding and should be review carefully to make sure you did not overlook something that can come back to bite you. In two years, you should either be divorced, in the process, or in recovery so I would not worry about the current separation agreement. Your WH will be ordered to support a minor child...period. Stay focused on what needs to happen today!

Sounds good. Thanks. This is a first draft of my Plan B letter, if any of you knowledgeable people have time to take a look and offer advice. I want to come from a place of strength, but I also want to come from a place of love in this last communication. Despite all the garbage, there is light in his soul, somewhere. If I didn't believe that, I would have been gone long ago. I mean what I am saying, but I want to convey love to him, no matter what the future holds. If this is the last communication I ever have with him, I want him to know that I ended it with love. If nothing else, it is more likely to inspire future peace than something more harsh would be:


May 8, 2012

My Dear Husband,

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to write, something I have mentally worked on for months and hoped I would not have to do it. Perhaps I should have done it sooner, when your heart was still full of love for me and for our children. I couldn�t bring myself to. But it has finally come to the point where I have to do it, for my own sanity and emotional health. I have written this letter with the true love that only a wife can have for a husband. Please read every word I have written, and know that it is from the heart.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I am deeply sorry for this. I know I helped to create an environment that made it possible for this affair to develop.

I have said this before and I want to say it again: I am willing to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I have learned a great deal through all of this. I feel that I am learning a lot about how to be the type of woman that I hope you would feel proud to call your wife. I so want to put the past behind us and build a better and beautiful life for us and for our children.

The past 3� years, and especially the 1� years since you left our home, have been a very difficult passage of time for me, by far the most emotionally traumatic of my life. I remember the pure love, hope, and happiness I felt when, after nearly a year of doing everything I could to just love you after I first discovered this affair, I watched your mind, heart, and soul change and turn to me and our family. You were the most amazing husband and father. I felt so deeply connected to you, so full of love for you, so happy with our marriage and family. I began to feel a deep connection to you again in November and December. I remember long talks, dinners, discussing our lives and our children, touching on the mistakes we had made, expressing love and caring for each other, and bits of hope for our future.

The past 4 months have been the worst of my life. I have felt so much hurt and pain, disbelief, and despair. I let myself slip into a very dark place, and I�m ashamed of much of my own behavior during this time. I have to pull out of this.

I never thought I could survive something like this. I have found strength inside me that I never knew I possessed. I have made many mistakes during this trying time, but I have tried to do what I thought was right and what I felt like God wanted me to do. I have never wanted a divorce, I have believed in you, in our marriage and our family, and in the importance of keeping it together. I have told you many times that I have been amazed at times at the depth of love I have felt for you, even in all of this, that I know God has blessed me to see you the way that He does, as a person of infinite worth. I am sorry for the times in our marriage, both in the past and recently, that I have done things to make you feel anything less than that.

It has been heartbreaking for me to see the damage to each of us as individuals, and to our relationship in all of this, especially during the last 4 months. It is to the point where I even feel very afraid of you, something I do not want to feel. I want to hold onto the love that I still have for you. I also need to hold onto myself. Too much of my focus has been on you. I need to focus on me - my own personal growth, health, and well-being. I also need to focus on my children, helping to rebuild their lives, and love and support and strengthen them.

In order for me to do this, I need to separate myself from you completely. It is simply too difficult, too heart-wrenching, too anxiety-inducing, for me to see you or to be in contact with you. This is not in any way meant to punish you. This is about me, what I need to do for myself, in order to move forward in my own life and recover my strength. I will not see you, talk to you, or communicate with you directly in any way. Please respect my need to do this under these circumstances. If you absolutely have to contact me, please do it through ( ).

I want us to work together to restore our marriage and family. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly and hurtful the things we have been through, we can get past it. With God�s help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself, and find the strength we need to do this. I know it�s there. I�ve seen it.

I love you, my sweet husband. You are the love of my youth, the father of my children, the man I shared my life with, my husband of 22 years. I want to finish raising our children together, be grandparents together, grow old together. I want to love and support and care for each other through the rest of our lives. I love you with all of my heart. You know what I am willing to do. You saw it. You saw what our marriage could be, what we could do together. You saw all my efforts, even in the midst of the worst pain possible. You know that I love you, and that I have done everything I can to show you.

I think the mistake we made the first time you chose our marriage was that we didn�t have a plan. If we�d had a plan then, I think we could have avoided the pain of the past year and a half. When you find yourself ready to end this affair completely, once and for all; willing to work out a plan for recovery; and willing to commit to our family, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future together. I know you do not want to feel controlled or dictated to, and it is not my desire to do either. I want us to work together on this. I know that our marriage can be better than it�s ever been, not just something we can survive, but the marriage we both dreamed of the day we got married. I know we can build the beautiful, loving, happy, supportive, passionate marriage that will make us both happy.

I know things are no longer in my hands. You remember everything I do, you know how I feel, you know what�s in my heart. I have done everything that I can do.

I am leaving you in God�s hands, my sweet _____________.

All my love,
Your wife

It's not plagiarizing to steal large chunks from the sample letters, right? That's what they're for? Just making sure:)

That's what they're there for. For you to use.

I don't think anyone has put a patent on them, yet.

And yes, I have a lawyer - my lawyer. He drafted the separation agreement. Thanks for the advice on how to handle all that. You're right, the present agreement takes care of me and the kids for now. I can relax and let him do his crazy circus act all on his own. I have time, and maybe even approaching sanity, on my side:)

Also read this and you will see that all waywards speak from the same crazy script.
Craziest things to come out of a Wayward's Piehole

Funny:) Too bad we can't make all the WS read all this. They all say the same things over and over, and they all think they're so special and unique. Might be kinda funny to see a hundred other people saying the same thing you said today and thought you were a genius for coming up with it.

My favorite was when after a THREE YEAR affair, so much damage to my children that I won't begin, I finally sent a letter to OW - not even a nasty letter like she deserved, but actually a copy of a letter I wrote to my WH, going over some of our recent shared experiences, sweet things, with a note telling her I was not giving up on my marriage or going anywhere. When he freaked out about it he said, "How could you do this to me? What kind of person writes a letter like that? What gives you the right to mess with my life? I have NEVER done anything to "eff" with your life like that!" Hmmm . . .

RS, I'm a little concerned about using his brother to intermediary.

Have you read the intermediary training thread?

The intermediary has to be q short and succint to the WS. I IM for a few people and I doubt I could handle the wayward as well if they were a sibling. Few of us are nuetral and entirely businesslike to our siblings

If this couple support you and see you as the best thing for their relative (blood is usually thicker than water) then they won't be neutral with WH.

They will get too bogged down in discussions with him. Remember waywards are master manipulators of anybody who cares for them.

All you need is a friend who is willing to be a 'spam filter'

She doesn't get involved or respond to his comments, she merely says 'I will let her know about x bill and y childcare arrangement' while she ignores anything else he says re fog/love/hate.

She doesn't have to FEEL neutral about him or be able to talk to him (its best she doesn't)

She merely has to be level headed enough to treat him neutrally and not get sucked in. To only give the standard responses.

Have you read the intermediary training school thread?

Unfortunately as much as we would like to educate or shake them, we can't. Regardless of any good intentions they view it as we think we are superior and it becomes a LB.

If you haven't already read the link BrainHurts posted about babble from waywards mouth. It is good for a laugh and confirms how irrational and wayward their behaviour really is.

Hang in there, try to stay strong, you can do this and you have an amazing wealth of experience and support here on MB. It really does make a difference.

Look after yourself and the children. Maybe focus on doing 1 thing for yourself each day. That might be sitting with a cup of tea/coffee, reading a book, listening to music, watching a movie ... comedy is always good, having a bubble bath, painting your nails. Just do soemthing for yourself where you can take time out recharge and start to feel good again.

I've cut your letter down some,

Its far too complicated and in depth, for a foggy brain.

It also apologises for Plan B and reveals way too much neediness. Plan B should look strong

It also contains way too much about your thoughts and feelings when a wayward simply doesn't care. If you refer to your pain it must be short or he simply won't read it.

I would go with something like this:

Dear WH


I love you, my sweet husband. You are the love of my youth, the father of my children, the man I shared my life with, my husband of 22 years.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs,and helped to create an environment that made it possible for this affair to develop.


I am willing to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I so want to put the past behind us and build a better and beautiful life for us and for our children.

Your affair during our marriage has caused the most emotionally traumatic time of my life. You must know how painful your affair has been for me. I cannot be in any contact with you, while you are with OW. I must protect myself from this pain.

In order for me to do this, I need to separate myself from you completely. It is simply too difficult, too heart-wrenching, too anxiety-inducing, for me to see you or to be in contact with you.

I will not see you, talk to you, or communicate with you directly in any way. Please respect my need to do this under these circumstances. If you absolutely have to contact me, please do it through ( ).

(I would add: I will only be ready to see you when you have made the commitment to separate entirely from OW. When you are ready to permanently end your affair, only then can we begin to rebuild our marriage.)

I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly and hurtful the things we have been through, we can get past it. With God�s help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself, and find the strength we need to do this. I know it�s there. I�ve seen it.

I want to finish raising our children together, be grandparents together, grow old together. I want to love and support and care for each other through the rest of our lives. I love you with all of my heart.

I know that our marriage can be better than it�s ever been, not just something we can survive, but the marriage we both dreamed of the day we got married.

I know we can build the beautiful, loving, happy, supportive, passionate marriage that will make us both happy.

I have done everything that I can do.

I am leaving you in God�s hands, my sweet _____________.

All my love,
Your wife

Rainey, I agree with what BR said about signing any legal docs before you're ready. If you have to, just wave your hand and say something like, oh that... I don't understand all that legal mumbo jumbo so I'll have a lawyer take a look and let him get back to you on that. But then you'll be in Plan B by then and he won't hear zip back from you directly.

Warning to what I post next. Don't do what I did!

My then WH came by one day and said we need to get this divorce filed ASAP. He knew I was a paralegal so I could draft it myself. So I did, but I made myself the petitioner and he took it to the courthouse, paid the filing fee and filed it. It broke my heart to do it but I was desperate to please him.

Later I found out that it was because OW was pressuring him. She didn't want to be seen as the OW because of her own custody battle so she basically gave him an ultimatum. File for divorce and bring me the proof or we're done,

It all worked out in my favor in the end however because I was able to dismiss the divorce later because I was petitioner. Long story. I was an idiot for going along and very nearly ended up divorced. I dismissed the petition three days before it was final. He would have had to start over, filing fee and all.

We did recover our marriage but it was a long bumpy road. I didn't have MB or a clue and i went to hell and back. You have MB, use it fully and stick to the plans. With Plan B, you get to skip all the additional drama and grow stronger. You'll regain your confidence and be able to think clearly. YOU will get to decide what's what instead of being lead around by your emotions.

I'd get legal advice RS

You'll need financial support during separation anyway - the wayward is not to be trusted to behave.

It may benefit you to file and become the petitioner, because you would control the pace of divorce that way, rather than letting him file.

Plus if you file on grounds of adultery, naming OW and have her appear in court to explain herself that will put a nice crimp in their plans to use divorce to legitimse their A.

A really good pitbull lawyer will tell you how to protect your finances and whether you should divorce for your own interests or keep things to a separation agreement.

I'm sorry I didn't get to come back and post a link. But I see others have. And then this morning I heard the 3 weeks of Plan A for women figure on an old Marriage Builders radio show:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2793

Rainy, I cut that WAY back so it would be very clear and concise. It needs to be short and sweet. Remember, this is someone who is emotionally detached and in a fog so he is not apt to read through a long, sentimental message. I also added the conditions of resumed contact: he ends his affair and commits to the marriage.

I am wary about your SIL being the IM, but if you think she could do it well, I would give it a try. She needs to act as a SPAM filter and NOT let anything other than pertinent information about child visitation and finances go through. He will try to send through long fogbabble letters lecturing you for going dark and blaming you for the affair. That cannot get through.

Will your SIL agree to do that?

I would also change your locks so your H does not come barging in.

Has your atty gone after your H for the maximum support? What about filing on grounds of adultery? Can that be done in your state? You should be going after your husband to make sure you have the MAXIMUM benefit from a divorce.

Here is my suggestion for your letter:

My Dear Husband,

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to write, something I have mentally worked on for months and hoped I would not have to do it. I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I am deeply sorry for this. I know I helped to create an environment that made it possible for this affair to develop.

I have said this before and I want to say it again: I am willing to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I have learned a great deal through all of this. I feel that I am learning a lot about how to be the type of woman that I hope you would feel proud to call your wife. I so want to put the past behind us and build a better and beautiful life for us and for our children.

Your affair has been the most painful event of my life. The past 4 months have been the worst. I have felt so much hurt and pain, disbelief, and despair. I never thought I could survive something like this. It is because of this that I must separate from you completely.

It is simply too difficult, too heart-wrenching, too anxiety-inducing, for me to see you or to be in contact with you. This is not in any way meant to punish you. I will not see you, talk to you, or communicate with you directly in any way. Please respect my need to do this under these circumstances. Any pertinent matters regarding the children or finances should be sent through IM. Legal matters should be communicated through our lawyers.

I ask that you do not contact me until you have ended all contact for life with OW and are committed to saving our marriage.

I love you, my sweet husband. You are the love of my youth, the father of my children, the man I shared my life with, my husband of 22 years. I want to finish raising our children together, be grandparents together, grow old together. I want to love and support and care for each other through the rest of our lives. I love you with all of my heart. You know what I am willing to do. You saw it. You saw what our marriage could be, what we could do together.

With all my love,

Rainy

Agree 100% with this.

I posted it in her thread earlier on, but I'll post it again for her.

Here it is rainysweet.
IM Training School

rainy, if you can't find someone you know to act as your IM give me a shout.

Thank you all for the advice on everything. I appreciate the support. It's helped me to feel more hope and more in control of my own life than I have for awhile.

Agree with everyone on shortening the PBL. And I think blackraven would make a great IM for you. I definitely would strongly consider using her over your SIL...

ITA.

rainy, I will vouch for blackraven. I have met her and even had dinner with her! She is a wonderful lady. Now, who will vouch for me?

Thank you so much, Black Raven, for your generous offer. If I cannot come up with another plan, I'll let you know. I am considering asking one friend.

Thanks for the vouching, Melody , SusieQ, and Scotland.

I am in the process of revising Plan B letter, taking into consideration the suggestions given to me by some of you (thanks to ML and IG for all the time spent on that, especially!).

Couple more questions for you all:

I mentioned my husband seems bent on pushing through a divorce. Do I appear to be weak or in denial if my Plan B letter does not address that? If it says under what conditions I am willing to work on the marriage, and I ignore the D word all together? Would it be better to acknowledge what I would agree to in a D? Or to simply tell him I'm cutting off contact with him? Or do I want to say I'll work on the marriage when the OW is completely out of the picture and he's committed to MR, like I did?

He threatened me that if I ever contact OW again he will take away all support. He could, theoretically, do this. He owns his own side business, relatively small although plenty of income for him to live off of, which he can easily hide income from. He could quit his regular job, and it would be very hard to nail down how much money he makes, and impossible to garnish his wages. He told me his plan flat out. Of course I could fight him, but he could make my life very difficult in the process, and my children would certainly suffer if they lost their house, etc. I have no idea what he is capable of anymore, so I can't doubt that he might very well follow through with the threat.

That said, is it worth sending a copy of Plan B letter to Ms. Amazing, as Dr. H typically recommends? She is very insecure and controlling, so I'm sure it would inspire another round of fits from her, and insisting on his pushing the divorce through. Possibly worth the conflict, and her wondering? Or just forget it and don't bother with her?

No mention of D in letter other than what Melodylane suggested about 'all legal matters' in her post up on the top of the page.

Send OW a copy?.....I would. Basically, it says, I am sending him off with these conditions. I am still in the game.

Will she be peeved and will he pull the financial rug out from under you? Maybe.
But are you going to be scared of his actions the rest of your life? He could hide his money any time he wants and could decide to do it anyway.

YK?

Don't mention D at all. Just outline your conditions, and let that be that.

Do NOT acknowledge what you would or would not do in a D. Right now, you are all about marriage.

Rainy, I would not mention divorce in the letter. Word it just as I laid out. In the meantime, you should countersue on grounds of adultery and abandonment and go after as much money as possible for as long as you can get it. If you can, have that ho subpoenaed into court to give sworn testimony about her adultery.

Be certain and send that skank a copy of your letter with a note attached.

As far a your husband threats to hide money from you, don't worry about that. A good attorney will easily catch him and you can give testimony about his threat.

I'm reasonably sure this little entity we have that is known as the Internal Revenue Service could assist in this little matter if it came to that. Their computers are slightly better than our PCs and MACs.

Your last post is all about your fears. But you cannot make good, sound decisions based on fear. Your decisions should be based on sound judgement driven by reason and logic.

Your husband should hear about the divorce when he is served with your counter suit by an armed sheriff. He doesn't need to hear about it from you.

Feelings follow actions rainysweet.

We know you love him, but,
he doesn't know who he is messing with.....

powerful and sure and true...... the mother to his children.

Booyah.

If he chooses to be giving up his position as head of the house, he will need to reckon with the attorney representing the new head (aka you).

Exactly as the others have posted. Do EVERYTHING MelodyLane suggested. She will NOT steer you wrong.

Okay, but I am the one who filed the legal separation. In that agreement, WH gives me more money than he is legally obligated to. So if I get ugly, I will actually get less money. I tried to put grounds of adultery in there, but my attorney told me it would only make me look bad, like I was trying to be vindictive and slanderous, and could actually hurt me in court with regard to child support, alimony, and custody issues. Apparently adultery is not viewed as a big deal in the legal system these days. Worse to come across as a scorned woman than as a home wrecking whore.

So, yes the sewer rat tramp deserves to be called into court - no doubt. And the dark part of me would love to knock her right off her high and mighty pedestal, as well as make WH look like the jerk he is being. I would love all that.

You're all correct that I can't let my fears run me.

BUT . . . as a logical, rational adult who is responsible not only for my own life, but for the lives of 4 other people, I can't afford to be selfish like WH and OW and only think about what would give me thrills and self satisfaction in the next 5 minutes. These are the facts:

WH pays me more than he has to right now. Guilt can be used to your advantage if you time it right:) I'm sure it was partly the grace of God that his heart was softened during Nov/Dec as I have said, the timing was perfect, and he actually helped get the kids and me out of an apartment (albeit he put us there - out of our nice home) and into a decent home that is ONLY in my name - yahoo! It is much smaller than our family home, has no yard, etc. But it is MINE - he cannot take it away or enter without my permission. It is nice, great for me and the kids, simple, less complicated, and I'm very grateful for that. NO WAY would he be willing to do that for me the way he is right now, so a miracle really.

So my children's lives are not the same certainly, but he does help enough that they can be in a house, participate in activities, etc - things they likely could not do with minimum child support. Less disruption in their lives than there could be. I'm a teacher - enough said about my salary. I could look for a higher paying job, but I'd rather be on the same schedule with my children, more time with them.

Also, while it is sad that he is so uninvolved in the children's lives, it is a blessing that he has largely left them alone, especially recently, with the way he is right now. Time with him is time spent in total misery for them at this point. If he could be a decent dad, that would be another story. But he isn't. So it makes all our lives easier that he mostly leaves them alone.

The legal separation agreement can be converted to a divorce with both our signatures. He has signed that. I have not. He is therefore motivated, due to pressure from OW, to perhaps give me more money than he has been to get me to sign. If he does, I'll take it gladly at this point. I feel no pity for him at all. I'lll take anything I can get. It either goes to make my children's lives better, or goes to pay for the bimbo to lie on the beach. No guilt there.

If I try to redo it all I'll have to start over with a new attorney - a huge expense. The one I have is good, reasonable, and fair. He's not a pit bull though, doesn't want to make it ugly if it can be avoided.

I could get more alimony for a longer period of time. But I'd rather have more child support now, while I have more kids at home and need it more. When the kids are gone, I can take care of myself. It's giving them a good life that is my major concern, which is why I agreed to things as they are. (I am trying to get him to give me more money for a longer period of time for our youngest son, as it runs out too soon to benefit him for his last years at home - part of why I have refused to sign it over to a divorce).

If I make it ugly with my WH, I will end up with less money overall, especially right now when I have 3 kids at home still and one who is barely in college and really still needs help. He will also sue for joint custody just to spite me. It's doubtful he will win that as I can argue abandonment, but he can certainly exercise his right to take the kids every other weekend and one night a week - something he has not done. That would be awful for them. In the year and a half since he's been gone my youngest son stayed over with him ONE night. And he came to our former home in the beginning one weekend and stayed with the boys while I took our daughter to an out of town dance competition. It would be a major upset and disruption in their lives at this point if he started to try to force them to go with him out of spite - and it would be an ugly court battle if I tried to fight it, very expensive and traumatic for the kids. (I've already discussed all this with my attorney with regard to state laws, etc).

So bottom line is: I can either enjoy the grim satisfaction of exposing WH and OW for what they are and making their lives a little less pleasant, possibly damaging the affair; or I can suck it up and leave them alone, which actually makes life more pleasant for my children. I would rather make my children's lives the best I can than make WH and OW's lives the worst I can. Make sense?

I am looking into the possibility of suing her for alienation of affection, once our D is settled, if it comes to that. But if I do that, I want it to blindside both of them, after he's already agreed to pay me as much as possible, and after her own D is final, with her getting as much as she can from her FH - the more she has, the more I can go after. So there's my dark side satisfaction, but all in good time, with my ducks in a row first.

It's not "satisfaction". You do what you have to--file on grounds of adultery. Your lawyer is supposed to work FOR YOU. YOU tell him what you want.

Make it ugly. Fight for everything you can get. You can bet HE will be fighting for all he's worth, so why should you back down?

Why should you make their lives easier?

I'm not sure how going to Plan B and having your attorney handle legal matters would be considered making things ugly for WH and OW.

Right now, aren't you planning on stepping back and out of their space in order to make sound decisions for and about yourself?

Rainy, what state are you in?

I hear much fear in your post, a lot of "what ifs" and genuine concerns...I get it. I do not agree with your attorney about not citing the adultery especially if you live in an at fault state. Your WH will likely not want to go to trial...and OW sure as heck doesn't want that. No one wants to go to trial...even the BS. There may be a lot of chest beating going on in lala land but I'd bet they don't want all the dirty laundry to be flying. They would look like dogs because that is how they acted and are still acting.

I have been away from MB for quite awhile dealing with my divorce and all the crappiness that goes along with it. My children were my #1 concern as yours are to you; my eldest is 12 and I am now a SAHM. I cited adultery (my attorney strongly recommended it and even said it was best to cite it in the original petition so it was). I did not go to trial, got more alimony and child support in a state with some of the cruddiest laws and calculators out there. ExWH could have fought me but he also knows what a trial would have looked liked for him in addition to the time, expense, not to mention the emotional/mental drain. He wanted to be done, I wanted to be done. Even though our marriage ended I don't think he'd want our children to go without either. In spite of everything, he does not want that for his kids but maybe your WH doesn't care...idk.

There is no guarantee what the outcome of your D will be but there are cases where there is a favorable settlement for the BS. I was willing to take that risk as there were some issues that were non-negotiable for me. I even have a moral clause in my decree that OW1 and OW2 are NEVER allowed contact with my children in any way, shape or form. I would have gone to trial over that alone.

Your WH can choose to get ugly anytime he wants...even after divorce. Any ex or stbx can get ugly...no spouse or stbx has control over that...regardless of what your WH says today. Think about it.

**hand raised**

You now owe me a coke!!!!

I'm in Utah. I've spoken with more than one attorney, as well as several friends/coworkers, etc. who have divorced recently. There seems to be a major tendency in UT right now for judges to award joint custody, weigh father's rights in heavily regardless of infidelity issues, in part maybe to make up for the long-standing UT reputation of favoring mothers. Of course I can fight all that. But why fight if I don't have to? That's what I'm saying.

I just don't see the need to even file for divorce right now when, as I said, he's paying me more than he would be constrained by the court to pay. I'm fine. I'm on his insurance still, he can't marry her while he's married to me, and it's a source of contention/control/insecurity between them. If he wants the D, he can give me a reason to sign it. (I told him that - "give me something worth signing and I'll have my lawyer take a look at it." I've seen nothing).

I did absolutely insist that the separation agreement specifically state that he was "permanently restrained" from exposing my children to her - her name is right there in black and white, so pretty much an admission to infidelity right there - in any way, shape or form, including granting her access to photos of my children, etc. I did tell him I would go to court over that 1 issue and fight him to my last breath.

He is still required to pay the minimum child support for our youngest son until he graduates from high school (state requirements here), even though the agreement is "front loaded." Absolute worst case scenario, all it takes is a signature from me at this point to convert that agreement to a divorce. And I would be okay with it. But I want him to give me more money than the minimum while our youngest son is at home, after the others are gone, so I'm holding out for that.

If he lets OW try to force him into a divorce, he will know that he let her do it - huge source of resentment later, I would think - and he also knows that he will have to up his deal to get me to sign, because I'm fine with what we have right now. It also puts the responsibility on him and a major theme of this whole affair and the re-writing of our marriage is that I have "made every decision, controlled him, run his life, blahblahblah." I want him to OWN this one, know HE pushed the divorce through and has only himself to blame. He would LOVE it if I took responsibility for that too, and he could even in his sick head blame that on me. I get the same payments for the next 2 years with just the separation agreement, so I've got time to sit back and watch him squirm while she barks at him.

I don't need to do anything else legally to go into Plan B. I CAN tell him to direct all legal matters to my attorney, cut off contact, and be fine. But everyone is saying I need to go after him, file for D, make a big deal. I don't feel like I need to do that at this point. Certainly not necessary for entering Plan B, as we already have an agreement in place.

And yes, stepping out of their space to let them crash and burn on their own, while I make healthy decisions for myself and take steps toward healing for myself and my children is EXACTLY what my plan is. So why are we all confused??? I don't want my focus on WH and OW anymore. Not on bringing him back, loving him, hating him, making him miserable - just nothing. It is important to me to do the Plan B letter right - convey strength and love at the same time, and then that's that. I want the focus OFF of him and back ON myself and my kids.

What part of Utah are you in? I'm also in Utah.

SLC area.

Me too.

Really? Funny. Maybe we're neighbors:) Small world, huh? I didn't realize some of the names had locations on them til now.

Very small world.

I got it, and I'm close by, but I don't know how to edit, so I'd rather not post it. I would not care if you knew, but I wonder if my husband lurks on here - I tried to get him on here earlier on. He would be upset about me posting, and I would not want everyone I know to find out - you know?

I totally understand. This is your support group. You know?

So did you solve your IM stitch?
How about a plan B date?

I asked a friend to do it, but told her to take time to think about it - she's had some things going on in her own life and I don't want to stress her out. I think I just want to do it ASAP - he keeps calling and I keep ignoring, but I feel increasing tension. I just want to be able to ask him to leave me alone and have him understand why, know I've explained so I can block him. I need to hear back from her first and make sure I have an IM, or see if I need to ask someone else.

Also had a glitch in CS payment last time - 1st time in a year and a half. Kinda want to wait until Friday to make sure it goes smoothly this time before I cut off contact, but maybe not. If she gets back to me, I may not even wait until Friday. The last text I sent back to him after all the garbage this past weekend while he was on vacation with OW, sending texts that he hasn't damaged the kids - I have by not moving on, demanding a divorce, etc - my last text said basically, "Give me something worth signing and I'll have my lawyer look at it, and leave us all alone." So he kinda got the message to some extent, I guess.

Send your friend the IM training link and it will help ease her mind. It tells her exactly what to do.

A glitch in CS like you didn't get as much? Or none at all?

He was with the OW and I'm sure she's pressuring him.

He's contacting you because he wants to cake eat because his OW went back to her BH (for now).

Good idea on link.

Glitch as in it usually gets wired to my bank from his paycheck, simplest way for both of us, but he changed amounts to different banks due to a pay raise he was trying to hide from me, accidentally deleted my account, so my payment went to his account too. I think I believe him? (I knew about the raise, dork). Just want to make sure it's all ironed out and I get what I'm supposed to.

I was kidding, of course. Well, mostly:)

Maybe you're right on cake eating. No idea. Maybe he wants to scream and yell. Or tell me to write up the divorce so he can sign it. Or demand to see the kids he suddenly cares about. Or find some reason to make himself feel better for what he just did again. Who knows? I don't want to know. I just want to go dark. The more I see how I feel when those calls come in, the more I realize I need this.

Ok gotcha on the CS. I would make sure also.

I would probably only bump him with my big ol truck.

I know you need Plan B. I can hear your pain. You're up late do you work nights?

No, I work days, run kids evenings, and sit up nights on MB and working on Plan B the last few nights:) Not a great balance. I should go to bed. You?

Yes you need your sleep. We can't make good decisions with no sleep. Yup I'm at work now. No I'm not using the company computer Mr. Bossman! Haha

Your attorney thinks your filing on the grounds of adultery makes you look bad?

What??!!

Is he/she wayward?

Have you consulted many other attorneys?

You need a pitbull. One who gets it.

I'd like to say no, of course he's not wayward. Who ever knows, though? I was referred to this attorney by a close friend after consulting with 2 others. He has seemed very knowledgeable, level headed, and reasonable. Also much more fair and honest, less snakelike than some. One of the other 2 said filing on grounds of adultery was not a good idea either, because you have to prove it if you say it, it turns into a big ugly expensive nightmare, and you don't need it. You don't need grounds, so it's not necessary.

If it comes to that, I guess I'll work on it. Today, I don't care honestly. Sorry for the apathy. Maybe it's the no sleep for 3 nights in a row. Think I'm gonna turn in. Thank you all.

I don't think any of us are confused...just difference of opinion as well as having witnessed too many times how this turns out for a BS. At the very least you should go into Plan B. I personally would go with Plan D. For me, no amount of money would have kept me married to exWH; I'd go back to work if I had to and will have to eventually. Too much damage and I'd have to lie to myself to stay.

If OW lives far away and you divorce, is it more likely OW would pressure WH to move to her state? If so, your children would have limited contact with him even if WH was awarded joint custody and she likely doesn't want your kids around. Would she want to go to UT? Her BH could stop her from leaving the state with his children..he may put up with some things now but could put his foot down later. Even if OW did take her children...WH doesn't even bother with his own kids. I doubt he'd want to put up with much from hers lol. I happen to think APs will make each other miserable...the dishonesty and having to trust a cheater...well good luck with that. Letting the APs have each other is some times the best reality fix, A breaker, and karma bus all built into one.

Proving the infidelity under the circumstances isn't much of an issue. WH has taken trips and there will be record of their lodging...doubt separate rooms. And since WH is bragging about it plus so many people know, I don't think you have much to worry about there. Plus you have abandonment and I think UT has some other faults that can be cited in your case. UT is still very conservative...plenty of your WH's friends, co-workerss may think he's a lowlife but don't say so to his face...typical. I would not be scared off by what others say. I see many things going for you but you are the one who has to live with the outcome and roll the dice. You may feel differently once you are in Plan B...idk.

Anyway...cue the Small World music...

A former Utahn here. Lived there for several years and loved it!!! Miss pastrami laden crown burgers and the Red Iguana.

Thanks. I'm taking a couple of days to ponder on what the best decision is - Plan B or D. One or the other, though. I agree that hopefully they will make each other miserable. I wish he would move to where she is. In fact, I asked him to go there. That would make Plan B easy, and life far easier for my kids and me. Funny, he doesn't seem to REALLY want to do real life with her for some reason . . .

That's usually a moot point. Plan B is to protect you, whether D happens or not.

I told him if he brings her here, I'll leave. So did the kids. I hope he would go there, but she is from here and this is where his job is. I told him we won't live in the same state with her. I think he knows I can make his life hell if he tries to do that. I'm done being nice.

Yes, I would LOVE to see him trying to deal with her "amazing kids" on a regular basis. He can't handle his own. I just wish her BH wasn't so helpful. I do think he will fight her on custody if it comes down to that, but not sure. Who knows? I just think some reality needs to sink into this clandestine mess; I don't think it will last long once it does.

Divorce hurts less in Plan B.

Many Plan Bers are also advised to divorce for financial reasons even when not ready to file: they can always remarry or spin it out so it takes longer.

I would assume, without ever having gone into Plan B or Plan D myself, that you would have a much more difficult time 'moving on' in Plan B. Now I know there are a lot of Plan B'ers out there that are self focused and doing great. But they are, at the end of the day, still MARRIED to a spouse who is with an AP. As opposed to going through with Plan D and being free to move on. I don't mean to move on with other men, I mean to be able to emotional/mentally move on from being MARRIED and involved in the A. If you are in Plan B to some extent you are still involved. So if you stay in Plan B vs filing for D for the kids to have more support, at the end of the day is there a further cost to you to continue being in this situation, even without any contact with your WH? It has been going on for so long, personally I would want to be done and move on.

I know that many Plan B'ers are still willing to accept their remorseful WS's back if/when they commit to reconciling, but I also know due to the length of your situation you have been advised by some of the great vets to Plan D. So I just thought I would throw this out there as a reason for you to look at Plan D vs just a longterm Plan B, because you seem to have the opinion that they are one in the same and you just get more money in Plan B because its not official. I feel like there would still be a continued emotional cost to you. But Plan B'ers would know more than I, maybe I am wrong and you can emotionally move on in Plan B.

I don't think you completely understand Plan B, unwritten. There are many Plan B'ers here who have moved on. As an example, MelodyLane has Plan B'ed her ex husband and has moved on just great!

I think maybe you think Plan B means "stay married"?

I guess I need to do Plan B, period. I still have time to decide on the D. I kind of think WH will try to push it through, which is fine, because as I said in an earlier post I'd kind of like that - him having to own it. Part of his wayward babble is that I have made every decision in our marriage, run his whole life, etc. (He projects psycho controlling OW onto me, I think). He prefers to sit back and then blame other people for where his life does/doesn't go rather than taking responsibility for his own behavior.

She is pushing him to D big time, so let him blame her. That would create a nice dynamic for them:) He's actually found the most controlling woman on the planet that he's been looking for. That'll be eye opening when he comes out of wayward fog. (The most bizarre thing is that he totally realized that when he was briefly in recovery - weird. Now he's completely forgotten again).

If he doesn't, and things do not change, I will do the D myself when I am ready. I think it will be easier to think clearly and go through with the D emotionally if I need to, once I am in Plan B.

It helps to hear the thoughts and opinions of others, so thank you all.

You are right Markos. I guess I thought of Plan B as stay married, but in the dark with no contact for your own emotional benefit of staying out of the drama, yet being ready for reconciliation if your WS decides they are ready to leave their AP and work the MB plan. But I do know there are people in Plan B that have filed for D. Oh and I guess I have read one thread where someone was still in the dark after D but figured after that you are just divorced and moved on from the whole mess.

I just think Married (Plan B or not) is still 'invested'.

I thought MelodyLane's M was recovered? Guess I don't know her story but I thought that was in her sig.

I do agree that married Plan B is still "invested." I would still be willing to work on our marriage if he got his act together. I may give that just a bit more time, as I have not tried Plan B in all of this, before I go to D as well.

I never thought these 2 would actually end up marrying, but maybe they will. My MIL is a serial cheater, whose last marriage (#4) was the example of perfect bliss. Now, that is. When she cheated on and left my FIL 20 years ago, my WH actually did not think it was so awesome. Her AP was never allowed in our home. But now that her OM has been dead for 10 years, my WH has seen the light - that his mother set a wonderful example of the importance of finding your own happiness. (Personally I think the guy simply passed on before she could cheat on him too - I doubt it was going to last forever. AP are just a little harder to come by when you reach 80 years old). OW has a similar amazing example in her grandmother. Family legacy of adultery/afffairs/affairages on both sides.

My WH and OW are only mid 40s, kids still around, etc. So I really think when reality begins to hit this thing, it's going down. Maybe they'll hold on longer than I think. But I do lean toward trying Plan B without D for a bit, just to see if pulling everything else away so he's left with only her starts to make a difference. It might. When he ended it the first time he told me, "I really hope you don't divorce me. Even if you do, I want you to know that I have no desire or intention to marry OW. I've seen too much of who she is." Yeah. Well, that's still who she is.

and you 'think he will try to push through'

guess what?

The cool thing about going to a Plan B....you rely on yourself and become self contained and realize you do not have to be 'gun shy' about what others do or don't do and no longer are responsible for their choices of pushing through, not pushing through, deciding to save the marriage or not.

You are responsible for your conduct only.

It is freeing.

You will still be sad if your H stays WH. You won't be responsible for it though.

You release the ropes.

HTMS

I agree. I guess his behavior is irrelevant to me now. I just do what I think is best for me and my kids, on my own timetable.

Rainy, you are letting a WS drive the bus with that sort of thinking. If you weren't dealing with a 3+ yr affair I might see things a little different but this has been going on for a long, long time. A WS will blame a BS no matter who files first, what a BS say/does, rewrite/ignore history and reality simply because he is wayward and you are causing problems with his affair and cake eating. It is typical for WS to complain the BS was controlling and made every decision, blah, blah, blah....your WH is no different. Your WH is all talk as most are. If he wanted to be divorced or with OP so dang bad, he'd file. He's a coward no matter how you slice it. If I hadn't filed (and other BSs too), my ex never would have filed. And yes I'm sure he blames me for 1000 things too. You can't win with a wayward...no one can.


I hope so. I don't mean to harp but I would hate to see you suffer more than you already have and keep living in limbo.

True, BR.

Riiiiiiiiiiight and months/years later here you are. Plan B and get to a good place.

Agree.

Why are we talking about lawyers, OW, what WH says, etc?

You need to get into Plan B pronto. The plan D/lawyer stuff can be dealt with later.

You have a willing IM that can do the job until your friend decides, that shouldn't hold you up, rainy. Just so that you know, you are very lucky to have an experienced MBer willing to do this for you. I have seen many posters begging someone here to help them be their IM with no response.

It took me about a week to go into Plan B from my dday, a few days from the day I decided to do it. I am worried about more stalling here, rainy... I hope that I am wrong.

You should get a lawyer and you want your WH to know from your lawyer that you will fight him on that. He will use this as leverage if he thinks it will scare you. Sure, the infidelity may not factor into it, but you admitted that he has been horrible to the kids and he has abandoned them. (I hope you have been documenting his parenting since he has moved out!)

In my mind, since I know STBX's true intentions aren't really wanting the kids with him 50% of the time that he wouldn't be willing to spend the $$ to fight me over it. The money to fight for my kids doesn't matter to me. That's the difference. I made d@mn sure that it was known that was a battle I would fight to the bitter end. I told my lawyer that was my hill to die on, and she told STBX's lawyer "it's off the table, not up for discussion, period". Yes, he tried threatening me with that but he backed down when he saw I was dead serious.

I don't know if I am misunderstanding that you don't think D is necessary since you two have some type of agreement regarding CS and $$. Just so that you know he can and will probably financially screw with you unless you are legally protected.

But again, go into Plan B FIRST and then deal with the rest of it later...

Melodylane's marriage is recovered. Markos is talking about her second WH is whom she Plan B'd and "moved on" thus her now recovered M with now FWH.

I hope to have things in order to begin Plan B by this weekend - at least by Monday. My friend will IM for me, but thank you so much Black Raven.

What do you all think about this? My WH keeps calling since he returned from trip with OW. I keep sending it to voicemail, and then turning off my phone when all my kids are home safely so I know they won't have to get ahold of me. I'm worried about it causing mounting tension though.

Should I answer and be pleasant? No idea what he wants. Or continue to ignore him until I can begin Plan B? Seems silly, I know, but it's stressing me out.

If you are still in Plan A, yes, be pleasant. When you go to Plan B you do not answer at all.

Just something to consider RS. BlackRaven would be an excellent IM she knows the MB principles and the duties of IM. MB IM's have been recommended as the ideal IM. She has also been "vouched for" on your thread. Having been through this herself, she can offer you invaluable insight and support. My IM is MB and she has been a true asset .... she understands. Your decision obviously, just thought I'd offer a suggestion.

Until Plan B....you communicate directly.

Stay pleasant (last thing he will remember when you do implement Plan B)

and

if he talks divorce....you pleasantly tell him that his attorney will need to discuss such matters with yours. Pleasant even if he then blows a gasket and says you must discuss it. Change the subject if he gets nasty or say "I will talk to you later dear. Gotta go." and hang up, turn tail, whatever you must do to not engage in nasty talk.

Rainy, PLEASE listen to BR. She is exactly right. You need to protect yourself from the man who said the above. He is dangerous to you and you need legal protection. You should not only cooperate but you should countersue on grounds of adultery and get the best deal for your children. Your main focus needs to be on protecting yourself and your children from him.

Your husband has already "decided" on divorce, so you don't have the luxury of waiting to decide on anything. You need to decide to protect yourself.

We have told her to do BOTH. She needs to divorce him AND immediately go into Plan B. I doubt he will ever come back, but if he made a personal radical change, she could consider taking him back some day. But that is unlikely to happen. In the meantime, she needs to shut that door in Plan B to preserve her mental health.

Well, you can all rest easy. (And please pray for me and my kids). Plan B and D are both on, kinda shoved into it. WH went completely psycho tonight - went to Grandma's to demand to take our 12-year-old. Thankfully he was gone with uncle. Chased our 16-year-old daughter all over town in her car, driving like a maniac. Threatened me, my family, the kids. He is gone. He is just gone. I have no idea who this raving maniac psychopath is.

I was trying to track down my son to protect him when my daughter called me. Called police to go pull him over and protect her. What a nightmare. I can't believe this is my husband. Well, it isn't - like I said. What happened to him?

Taking day off tomorrow to get protective order and file D asap - call into lawyer tonight, police report filed. Sad. So, so sad. In one way a relief - it's over. Dead.

So sorry rs.

I'm so happy you're taking the steps to protect you and your kids.

You need the protection of Plan B.

Your sanity demands Plan B.

What I can't figure out is why he would break like this all of a sudden. Then again...when WSs go bad, they go BAD. There doesn't seem to be any figuring 'em out.

Sorry to hear things have taken a turn for the worse. Its good you have taken steps to protect yourself and your children.

Hang in there, try to stay strong, you can do this and remember you have support here any time you need it, someone will be online.

I tend to be on til about 6-7 AM of US's eastern time zone. So I'll be here, too.

Sorry to hear about the meltdown but sadly I am not surprised. I ended up calling the police on WH then filed for D...scary and surreal. Prayers to you and your children.

Thank you all. He's been going steadily downhill the last 4 months, but this is the worst I've ever seen him. Not even him, like I said. OW pushing for him to D, but sounds like after his rants tonight that she is not filing for D - she is staying in cushy house with rich hubby. My WH is just her worshiper vacation boy. He wants his money back to buy a house here. Wants to spend every other week with the bimbo, and force the kids to go with him in between. (After tonight???)

I think it comes down to not enough cake to go around. "I should get to keep OW and all that entails, have my kids ready to adore me at my whim if I decide to pop in occasionally, have my BW be willing to take up all the slack and be my buddy while I'm killing her and our kids, have a nice swinging bachelor pad, keep all my hard-earned money, and never feel the consequences of any of my poor choices - just be able to stay high, high, high all the time." Since he can't, that must be my fault too.

Says he has a D suit prepared demanding joint custody and no CS or alimony. Minor change from what he promised this weekend, huh? Never did follow through with his offer of more CS if I would just sign the D and get out of his life. He doesn't really want me out of his life - he needs a scapegoat for everything. I would love to be out of his life at this point, but he won't let me be. (Yes, I'll be doing something about that). He's destroyed his life, he knows it, easier to go into psycho rages at me and even his children than accept responsibility for himself, I guess. It's like he hates himself so much that he has to take all that out on someone - he can't live with himself, can't just leave us alone.

I don't want to send him a Plan B letter anymore. I'm just going to try to get a protective order ordering him to have no contact with me or the kids - no IM needed except lawyers now. No need to express love to a heart that hard, or gone completely. And no longer willing to work on M even if he turns his life around. I hope he does someday, for himself. But I just want him far away from me and my kids. I so wish he would go live with OW across the country, let them both see how great real life is with the amazing other person and what they've done to each other and their lives.

I'm furious with him, my kids are terrified and traumatized. I can't believe it got this bad. I just can't. This is what OW does to him. She should get to deal with it, though, not us.

Ahhh, that must be it. He realized that his fantasy's not working out the way he had imagined it, so he's MAD now, a la Mel Gibson.

Definitely file a protective order and get police reports/etc so you can be SURE he gets NO custody of any sort! Get the alimony/CS you deserve.

No judge with any sense would give him custody or say he doesn't have to pay anything after the crap he just pulled.

And did he leave you alone after that, BR? Is he with OW? You sound like you have things together pretty well. You and your kids are ok?

Please make sure you go ahead with the protection order and give your lawyer copies for your custody claim.

It is a real possibility he never intended to pay extra child support. It may well have been a carrot to get you to sign. Best to not dwell on what might have been, focus on protecting yourself and children and get your lawyer onto child support etc.

I just feel bugged because when he was with OW this weekend, I think (no, I KNOW) she was throwing a fit that he divorce me, so he says he'll do anything to get me to sign. Then she turns around and throws a fit that he can't give me more money - she wants it. He REFUSES to pay more CS for our youngest son last 4 years at home - must plan to hook up with her then and has promised her his full salary. More important to keep her in rhinestone bikinis than his son in his house. Told me I can work 2 jobs, but she can't work 1. Or I can just go find a new dad for his kid. Yes, he said that.

I have never seen one person control another to the extent that she controls him. Yet he is always telling me his biggest complaint was that I was "controlling." And her biggest complaint about her husband is that he had "no balls." Bizarre. Well, they both stepped out of the frying pan and into the fire, didn't they?

I guess I've spent enough time trying to analyze irrational behavior. There's no sense to make of it, just a sick, out of control addiction. It is sad to lose someone you love so completely.

But she is different! She is his "soulmate"! She is not controlling him, no. No, of course not....

And you can bet that on the off chance you did decide to "get him a new dad" WH would throw the biggest fit since the LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE kid.

Not that you would, of course.

I've stopped trying to figure out this stuff myself--it's like trying to figure out why poo smells. You CAN find out but you're so disgusted it's just not worth it.

He's a full blown addict.

Addicts make no sense. That's why Dr. Harley advises separation with an addicts. Affairs are abusive. She's his crack pipe.

Will the karma bus hit him someday? I believe in karma.

True, thank you both. No idea how I can laugh after tonight, but I did.

I wish the karma bus would hit him tonight. Or a big ol' truck????

Thank you all for the support and prayers. Got a long day tomorrow with an early start. I'm going to bed.

Karmarose, I like your poo analogy, how appropriate when discussing waynerd behaviour.

RS, Waynerds also project theirs and OP controlling behaviour onto the BS. Unfortnately they are "soulmate schmoopies" so her interests come first.

In my stich OW is controlling and manipulating. Everytime WH and I reached an agreement about marital assets, he'd go back to her and I receive a call, WH would do a 180 on our agreement. She couldn't equity harvest so she is now behind his defaulting, she's enjoying the lifestyle our defaulted payments are providing. OW is also fueling his anger towards me and lying to our children about me..... they alll have their own agenda.

This may make you laugh ... I even had WH do a 180 about selling our investments as he needed to buy a house b/c OW had sold hers (trading up) and it would be hard to find accomodation for her 4 cats.... now even thecats were taking priority over me!

Thanks. I thought it may be a bit inappropriate, but...

Sleep well!

No way it was spot on. Good one KR.

RS, its your call but I would recommend sending the Plan B letter.

There are a lot of long nights in Plan B where you wonder if he's changed, sobered up, realised that you met most of the needs.

If he hasn't contacted your intermediary,promising to comply you know he hasn't.

It removes the doubts and the urge to peek out of your plan.

You don't have to take him back ever if you don't want.

My WH might abide by the letter when its too late. I would sit down and speak with a FWH. I would let him offer me amends. Doesn't mean I have to take them.

Oh and the copy to OW is a nice FU that causes trouble in the A.

Nothing wrong with tossing a grenade into the crackhouse that took your life before you go.

I would still go into Plan B so you don't have to deal with him. You STILL will have to have dealings with him so it is best that communication go through an intermediary. Glad you are filing for divorce. You need to protect yourself and your kids.

P.s. and change your locks!

X2

Let us know how it goes with the protective order.

How are the kids?

I believe one of the posters on here has offered to be your IM. Considering the fact that it seems your WH has gone completely off the deep end and is very volatile, it might be a good idea to have an anonymous and unavailable IM. I would hate to see a personal friend that he knows and has access to be approached physically with his rantings and ravings. On paper it can just be deleted but a physical confrontation is far more serious. Just seems like he has it in him.

I agree with unwritten. I tried to have my sister as an IM and he nearly made her ill with manipulation and craziness.

Is your friend tough? It could still work if she sticks to the script.

An anonymous MB IM is harder to mess with, though.

You can try to make sense of the madness and imagine what is going on in his other life but it is pointless.
WH and OW can have drama galore....break up....make up......break up, etc.
indefinitely.

I would just make a Plan B letter to give the man and not try to consider what his future is or is not.

File for a Divorce too so that it is clear that you expect a fair treatment financially and child custody wise. That you will take no crumbs or threats or poison.

Remove yourself from the adultery vortex.

Hug those kids. Hug them close. Take them together and tell them it sucks but you will be their rock....come Hell or high water you are there.

You still need Plan B!

I came out of my Plan B somewhat during this D process to answer some emails and fwd copies of them to my atty. Some of them got nasty and it is very hard to fight the temptation to reply and things escalate very quickly. I am back in Plan B and it is unreal how much better and less stressful it is...

The IM will basically make or break your Plan B, RS. I have had to tell both of my IMs countless times: Stop, only tell me the bare minimum.... It is basically crazy not to use an experienced MBer as your IM...IMVHO!

Well I still have to deal with ex because of the children and until D finances are tied up. For the most part, we do not speak to each other unless it is about the children or finances and contact is usually email. After that incident, he left and the D ball started rolling.

We live in different states now. He is not with either OW to my knowledge but even if he was, I'm not worried about it since OW can't be around my children. They can have each other if they want. Even if the OW in your case goes away, there will be a replacement soon.

All things considered, my kids and I are well. Sad to say but my ex was so into his career and traveled a lot that my kids were used to having him gone. They miss him and I know ex misses them but I do think that helped the kids somewhat.

I'll try to answer everyone here. Thanks for all the concern.

Kids are shaken up, but okay. I could not get the protective order today. Taking another day off to try again tomorrow, but not looking great. Unless I have a bullet wound or something . . .

I did say, "Well are you at least going to note all this, so if I end up dead you'll at least have what you need to keep him away from the kids?" So annoying. The officer who pulled him over last night told me he was clearly emotionally unstable, said he went through everything he could to try to find something to arrest him for, but could find no legal grounds. He told me to get a protective order. Even with him vouching for me, they said they just don't think there's enough concrete evidence that he's a threat, especially to his children. I'm more worried about them than myself.

Don't want to just make him madder and then have them not grant it to me. Why can't he just move across the country and live with OW? That's why this has gone on so long and gotten so ugly. She runs his life (and he allows her to), he sees her at least every other week now, sometimes more (all vacation and play time - no kids, no responsibility), she gets him all riled up about how horrible I am and how awful his life has been and everything he'd better be doing and demanding, then she goes home to her privileged life and he comes terrorizing to take out his anger on the kids and me and fulfill her latest orders. No idea what the anger is - at himself for what he's done to his own life? At her? At coming off the high and not having a big enough dose of the drug on hand when she's not here? Who knows. Who cares, if I just didn't have to deal with it.

What is mind-boggling to me is how he can be so sickeningly sweet to her, so pleasant, so fun, so eager to please - and then be this terrorizing monster to his own family, even his children. How do you have those 2 dire opposite personalities both going at exactly the same time? My daughter was scared to death last night. What father chases down his own teenage daughter? He could've caused her to get in a car accident so easily, she's only had her license a couple of months. Then he said she's only afraid of him because of the lies I've been feeding her about him. ???? (Yeah, who's afraid of a raging psycho trying to run your little beat-up car off the road with his huge pickup truck? Especially when said psycho has taken over the mind and body of the man who used to love and protect you?) All rationality is completely wiped out. It is simply beyond my capacity to comprehend. What happened to him? I wish he was on crack - then I could lock him up and get him sober.

I don't want to Plan B at this point, until I have something concrete in place to protect my children. I think he will go after them if he can't get to me (case in point: last night). I will Plan B, but not until I have that issue resolved. Priorities have changed.

If he would just get away from nightmare OW, he might be himself again. Or if he would go do real life with her, the rose colored glasses might start to slip. There'd be no one around to take psycho-ness out on except her. The kids and I could breathe and "move on" like he keeps telling us to. (Tells us to, but won't let us). I know, I can only decide what I do, not what he does. But seriously, how do you escape this? I've been racking my brain, trying to figure out how I could pack the kids up and move out of state, as far away from him and his crazy family as I can get. But then I leave my family, the kids friends and schools and activities, and all my help and support too. It'd be worth the trade-off at this point, but I don't have the money/credit/job to do it.

I'm frustrated, but I'll get it figured out. Talked to my lawyer today. Going to see him tomorrow also, and back to courthouse.

Thanks for thoughts, prayers, and well wishes.

This is the wayward alien. They are vicious and unforgiving.

One BH here had his WW try to kill him.

Another WXW falsified claims of abuse and moved the BH out and the OM in.

Those are the only two I can think of at present, and I know they're women, but they're testaments to how low a wayward can go.

Just remember that.

It's not your husband.

It's a wayward alien, which you need to protect yourself from. Make sure you get in to get that PO asap tomorrow!

Plan B would protect you and your children.

Plan B would help you because you would be emotionally able to handle anything that you need to to protect your children. You are headed for an emotional breakdown, and then, your WH would get FULL custody of your children, and you would need to fight to get them back. That is the reality of what will happen if you continue the way that you are.

I don't see what else you would need to see to convince you to get yourself into Plan B.

So you would all still send a regular Plan B letter? Even though I'm also going into Plan D? You would still do the "I love you and will be willing to discuss reconciliation when you cut off all contact with OW and commit to our M" thing?

What's the harm in letting him know if he shapes up, there's a way home?

In any case you need to let him know you won't have contact until then, and a Plan B letter is the best way to do so.

RS, Listen to what is being posted you are getting really good advice. I know its hard, but as well as their experience they can look at the situation and see things clearly without the emotional investment you have. I know its hard reconciling the alien with your H, but until he comes out of the fog and is no longer wayward the man you know is gone.

Yes the OW is controlling, manipulating and fuelling his anger(same in my stich) but unfortunattely you cannot control this. Somehow you need to draw on your inner strength and let this go. Hopefully in time your WH will face reality and see her flaws. Until then focus your energies on yourself and your children. Protect you and your children, give yourself time to heal, help your children heal from the trauma, be happy and do something for yourself - maybe a bit of well deserved pampering.

I agree with karma. Yes send the Plan b letter. If he ever removed his head from his you know what you want to give him a path home. Hence the Plan B letter.

You need Plan B sooner than later. Even if. It goes all the way to D.

Okay. Thanks, everyone.

So, Black Raven, would you still IM for me? I couldn't see how that would work before, but after reading some other threads on here, I have a better idea. With WH's recent behavior, I'm reluctant to put my friend in the middle, although she is a tough lady and a mutual friend for years. Her husband is also a mutual friend and would help IM, I'm sure, although I didn't ask him. My WH always called her "the general" in a joking way (to her face, not behind her back, just like he thought it was funny). So he respects her, but still I hesitate to put her in the middle at this point.

If I had you do it, I'm not sure about even telling him it's an IM - he might go ballistic. What about the thought I've seen on here of setting up an email address just for him, telling him that's for our critical communication, and giving you the password? In fact, all the info so you can change the password and I can't even access it? Then you could screen his garbage, and only pass along what I really needed? (Wow, how fun would that be? Are you sure you're up for this?)

Or maybe it's better to be upfront and try the IM approach first and if he refuses, revert to Plan B of Plan B. I don't know though. The point is my peace of mind and sanity, not his. So whatever is the best route to that, which may be just not telling him about an IM.

Thoughts anyone? I'm just bouncing them around right now. Undecided on pretty much everything, except the certainty of Plan B (just undecided on best way to implement), and trying to get the PO.

And what about the kids? If he's doing the psycho demanding to see the kids thing, just ignore it? They don't want to see him and I'm not going to make them, even if I can't get a PO. Or do I have to deal with that with him?

I do not think any judge worth his salt would object to your withholding the kids at this point.

You definitely need an IM but I don't think you should have the password to the email account. An IM is a spam filter. A good one will filter for you.

RS I haven't read the threads referring to a separate email account, but I think it may refer to the IM seting up a separate email address for IM communication. The IM remains anonymous. My MB IM did this.

You have a MB IM? Okay, that makes me feel better. Yes, that sounds like a good idea. So much less emotion. Thank you.

Yes my IM is a MBer and she is a real asset. I personally believe MB IMs are best, they know the principles and understand what we are going through.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I think Blackraven would be ideal. She has experience, is on board with MB and has been vouched for by other posters.

Rainy, given your recent VERY upsetting events, I would definitely recommend sending the standard Plan B leter (with the standard offer of marital recovery providing WH meets your conditions).

ESPECIALLY given you are entering Plan B after such events. WH and YOU are likely to be on a roller coaster at the moment. This leaves YOUR door open.

You may close it. WH may never knock. Who cares? Right now, it means that you have done all you can, and left your options open to what YOU may want in future, should your WH ever show remorse and MEET YOUR BAR.

I agree with Caracal and the other posters. It leaves your options open for the future, rather than reacting to an unpleasant situation. Going dark will give you the opporunity to heal and focus on yourself. Later down the track when your in a better place and able to make decisions not based on traumatic experiences, then you can decide the path you would like to take. You will also find that you will be strong enough to follow that path. You can still file for D to protect yourself and children, going dark will give you the clarity and strength to D if thats the path you choose.

rainy, the others are right. You have even more reason than before to go into Plan B. The Plan B letter should be just as we suggested. And yes, you should file for divorce! Send the letter as we suggested so you can keep your options open. The plan does not change just because your husband has an outburst.

I would strongly advise you to change your locks TODAY. When you go into Plan B, I predict your husband will do everything to get you to break Plan B, including coming into the house. Think through every possible breech of contact and make a plan to circumvent it. Tell your kids about your plan and tell them they are not to let their dad in the house or hand you the phone.

And I would most definitely tell him to send all contact through your IM. He will resist it at first, but when he sees you are serious [and you will have to seriously reject his attempts to get through!] he will go through the IM.

Its not a hard job being an IM if you do it right. And I believe Blackraven would do it right. She has been around here for a long time and does not get intimidated easily.

I will

Rainy, can you post your latest Plan B letter again. In light the WH's meltdown, I would likely make some changes.

Even you can not get a Protective Order, at the very least you should still file a police report for documentation purposes. I do not think they can refuse having a police report made.

The police will not document 'domestic' issues as a report without investigation. This is a common mistake that I often correct (as a police dispatcher). Domestic disputes (whether verbal or physical) are just too dangerous. People like to try and report things to the police "in case anything happens in the future" but such a report is not acceptable, at least anymore since domestic violence has been 'accepted' as a legitimate threat in relationships.

The police will be willing to speak with our OP and make a report but they will want to investigate the issue as well, there is no "for report purposes" only.

The other side to this is that people who are not in danger (particularly in custody disputes) will make these reports up to try and get their partner 'in trouble' and that is another reason investigations are done.

Black_Raven,

Please check your MB profile & update your email address. The current address indicates it's no longer a valid address.

I did do it! I sent the most loving letter at a time when all I really wanted to do was hit him with a large stick.

I'm so glad I did it,

It keeps the doubts away that come on the long nights. In Plan B you wonder if he's changed and you get tempted to make contact. Knowing he has a way home reassures you. You'll know you did all you could. That makes divorce easier.

Plus he could still be in there underneath the newly arrived addict.

Remember that the addict wants you mad at him, so you give up and he gets to keep WHs body.

Rather than give up, just form firm boundaries and proceed with your plans to create a happy life for you and you alone - without any doubts should he choose not to repent.

Rainysweet,

I want to reiterate what I've alread said. Send the Plan B letter. It's part of Plan B and gives your WH a path home if he ever chooses.

How did it go with the cops today?

I got a police report. An officer was dispatched to my house. If talking to me and WH was considered an 'investigation', I guess that was enough.

That *does* qualify as an investigation some people are under the impression that they can make reports to police without the other party at least beieng spoken to (ie. I don't want him to know that a report has been made about him). Just wanted to clarify

BR,

Did you see this? Just wanted to make sure.

Gotcha

And yes email addy was updated.

Great.

Any news from rs? Little worried.

WH should be aware that communication is to an IM/third party or else he will still be getting his 'fix' if under the impression you are reading his emails. Your requirements are outlined in the Plan B letter...he may be wayward but he can read. Take a deep breath rainy and give Plan B a chance.

Okay, everyone. Still alive and well:) I spent the entire day working on the PO (minus an hour spent in mandatory divorce ed class), talking to my lawyer, etc. For the first time in all of this WH stopped direct deposit of child support funds. Thankfully I was off work to deal with everything, and got it out of his bank (my name is on the account - I just leave it alone, also until now). Never thought he would pull that. That is the last thing, the one thing he has always done is at least provide for his children. Now he told me if I will not force them to go with him, he will no longer pay me. And "by the time the courts can make me, you'll lose your house." Sigh.

BR, thank you!!! I sent you an email.

So this is the plan: Take ANOTHER day off on Monday to try to get the PO. (I was able to get case #s and request copies of police reports from 2 incidents last year as well - attorney told me that should be enough to hopefully get the PO now). Once I have the PO, then I will do the Plan B letter. I think you are right, ML, that he will freak and try to get to me. I want the PO in place first.

I have also decided that enough is enough. I have left OW alone and let her destroy my family, and now she wants to take away my children's child support too. POSOW (sorry, don't usually talk that way - nothing bad enough to say tho) is going down. I plan to tell all her fb friends, if I can get a list of them. Have a friend working on it. (She blocked me). Plan exposure will commence as soon as PO is in place as well. Just gotta time it all right.

I will post most recent Plan B letter, but I haven't had time to go thru it - probably still needs revision.

And ML, he does not have a key to MY house, thankfully. Kids and I just moved here 4 months ago, after months in an apartment. House is only in my name. Broomstick in back sliding door, changed garage door code, have police officers driving by to check the house occasionally. He told me he camped out at my house, watching me and the kids, for 3 days before the "incident" the other night. Scary.

Good rs. You're doing the right thing.

You sound so much stronger. Good job, my friend.

I still have my big ol truck. Just want to make you laugh.

RS, you have come a long way in just a few short days. You sound so strong and convinced! Good luck to you and please be extra cautious during this Plan B process, your WH is making me nervous with his antics. That camping out outside your house is very scary stuff.

This is Plan B letter I am currently working on. I have different suggestions in there from some of you, and I'm trying to merge it all into one, so there is some repetition that won't be there - still work to do. Some of you gave me a total letter suggestion before, which you don't need to do again - too much work. But any general suggestions with the change in circumstances? Or don't let that affect what I'm doing?



My Dear Husband,

I love you, my sweet husband. You are the love of my youth, the father of my children, the man I shared my life with, my husband of 22 years.

I have so many memories - from our courtship, how much fun we had, how you were my best friend, how I could tell you anything, how much I loved you � up to just a few short months ago when we shared long talks, dinners, discussing our lives and our children, touching on the mistakes we had made, expressing love and caring for each other, and hope for our future. There are too many things in between to begin.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs and helped to create an environment that made it possible for this affair to develop.

I am willing to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I so want to put the past behind us and build a better and beautiful life for us and for our children.

Your affair has been the most painful event of my life. The past 4 months have been the worst. I have felt so much hurt and pain, disbelief, and despair. I never thought I could survive something like this. It is because of this that I must separate from you completely.

It is simply too difficult, too heart-wrenching, too anxiety-inducing, for me to see you or to be in contact with you. This is not in any way meant to punish you. I will not see you, talk to you, or communicate with you directly in any way. Please respect my need to do this under these circumstances. Any pertinent matters regarding the children or finances should be sent through IM. Legal matters should be communicated through our lawyers.

I ask that you do not contact me until you have ended all contact for life with OW and are committed to saving our marriage.

Your affair during our marriage has caused the most emotionally traumatic time of my life. You must know how painful this affair has been for me. The last 4 months have been the worst. I can no longer be in contact with you, while you continue to be in contact with her. I must protect myself from this pain.

In order for me to do this, I need to separate myself from you completely. It is simply too difficult, too heart-wrenching, too anxiety-inducing, for me to see you or be in contact with you.

I will not see you, talk to you, or communicate with you directly in any way. Please respect my need to do this under these circumstances. I have arranged for an impartial intermediary. If you absolutely have to contact me, please do it via through ( ).

I will only be ready to see you when you have made the commitment to separate entirely from this person. When you are ready to permanently end your affair, and commit to our family, only then can we begin to rebuild our marriage.

I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly and hurtful the things we have been through, we can get past it. With God�s help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself, and find the strength we need to do this. I know it�s there. I�ve seen it.

I have told you many times that I have been amazed at times at the depth of love I have felt for you, even in all of this, that I know God has blessed me to see you the way that He does, as a person of infinite worth. I am sorry for the times in our marriage, both in the past and recently, that I have done things to make you feel anything less than that.

I want to finish raising our children together, be grandparents together, grow old together. I want to love and support and care for each other through the rest of our lives. I love you with all of my heart.

I know that our marriage can be better than it�s ever been, not just something we can survive, but the marriage we both dreamed of the day we got married. I know we can build the beautiful, loving, happy, supportive, passionate marriage that will make us both happy.

I have done everything that I can do. I am leaving you in God�s hands.

All my love,
Your wife

I have seen a couple of posts that Dr. Harley encourages BH to contact OM. I've had some people suggest I contact OW. I did send her a letter in January. Actually, a copy of a letter to my husband, a love letter about sweet things in all of this mess, with a note to her that I wasn't going away. It just ignited her "I will win at all costs" fuse. The thought of contact with her makes my skin crawl. I don't think she's worth giving the time of day to, let alone confronting.

What does Dr. H. say about BW and OW?

1 more thing. I'm not in Plan B yet. I have talked to Wh today, mostly trying to negotiate reasonable D, but gave up. (He called me first).

I said above he did not pay CS today - first time. I took it out of his bank (my name on account too). He's sending nasty texts about how I had no right to touch his bank acct, he does not have to pay if I won't force kids to go with him, blahblahblah.

Do I just ignore all these? Or reply kindly, or non-emotionally? ????

He says the same thing for BW.

Here it is
Dr. Harley encourages BH to confront OM

Except in your situation with going right into Plan B and since you've already confronted her.

Is your lawyer getting the CS locked down?

Reply nicely. Until you officially go into Plan B you're in Plan A. I wouldn't elaborate. I would just be civil.

Why so many problems with the PO?

I had no idea a PO was so hard to get. Yesterday, I got started, but only took half a day off work and had to get back. They told me it takes 4-6 hours, so come back tomorrow.

Today, I attended D ed class first, then went back. They told me the lawyer for victim's advocates was only willing to help me with the PO if I filed a police report on another incident I told them about from a month ago, when WH got violent with only me (not kids). But I had (stupidly, obviously) gone to his house. Police told me they would have to interview my 80+year old FIL who lives there too. He is not well, mentally or physically, and it would have traumatized him. They also told me the report would pretty much be meaningless since I was on his property, and he could just say he was trying to get me to leave, and therefore had the right to be verbally and physically abusive.

So I went to my police dept where report was filed 2 nights ago. They sent me to police dept. where WH lives, who gave me the same advice as before, but I did talk to a female officer this time who was more helpful. She told me to go get a copy of the actual police report from 2 nights ago. Also looked up and found records of 2 instances last year I had reported - I didn't know they were on file, since they had not talked to him. I had just reported him being psycho.

Went to get records. Was told i had to have birth certificates for my children if I wanted their names to be in the reports, which was advisable if I wanted them listed on the PO. Went to get those, came back, paid for reports, was told they would be ready in a few DAYS, but they did give me case #s and advise me to go to a closer court (this is back and forth across the valley all day, lines everywhere, talk to this person, then fill this out and wait for that person . . . ) Waited at closer court, who told me since I had started at farther away court, I had to go back there. Called them. It was 4:45pm and they had closed for the day.

So, if you ever have to do a PO - get all that stuff BEFORE you go, take 2 days off work, and don't expect any one person anywhere to give you a nice easy list of "stuff to bring with you." Seems a little crazy that it's so complicated.

They also told me I will have to appear in court to get a permanent PO, and face WH there - not fun for me. I don't want to do it, but decided I will, so he knows I will stand up for myself and my kids. I am done being controlled by him, and being his scapegoat for hating himself and OW. I also will protect my kids from him. He cannot behave this way. So ridiculous. Let him take his rage out on OW.

Dang what a pain, but I'm so glad you're doing it.

You sound so much stronger.

So with all your proof there's no way a PO wouldn't be granted, correct?

My lawyer said the same thing WH's lawyer did - he can wreak havoc in the time it takes to force him to pay. Technically, he is required to pay it all on the first since nothing else is specified, but he has always had bi-weekly direct deposits go in from his paychecks, which makes life so much easier. And he has to be 2 months delinquent before we can go after him. And in the meantime, I can't pay the bills and buy groceries. Dumb, dumb jerk. My kids had to leave their house because of him. I finally got them into another one - much smaller, no yard, but nice and OUR house. Now he's gonna make them leave this one? The man is destroyed. I just want to move far, far away from him.

They won't guarantee me anything on the PO, BH, but they said I could PROBABLY get it. Depends on the judge. And it's temporary. Then we have to go to court in 2-3 weeks, and he can tell them all what a psycho I am and that he should see his kids, and I know it will be ugly and he will forever try not to pay me now. But he's doing that anyway, so what do I have to lose? Might as well protect my kids and myself, and take OW down, right?

Yes. He's going to see that you're a mama bear. You are not letting anything threaten your babies.

Glad I sound stronger. I am terrified, honestly. But in some ways there is some relief and strength, because he has nothing left to threaten or manipulate me with. As long as he was paying me and mostly leaving the kids alone, which all made their lives better, I had something to lose. And reason to not want to rock the boat. And I wanted to be a good and loving person.

But OW is going to talk him out of CS? Seriously? She hasn't done enough damage? She is addicted to causing destruction and pain to me and my kids as much as he is addicted to her. I have absolutely no reason at all now to not try to just wipe out this affair, or at least cause as much damage as possible. At least if I could end it, maybe he would eventually be himself again. Maybe not, but he couldn't get much worse.

Yes, karma rose. If he's going to take away the only thing he still did to make his children's lives at all good, then he is going to see the b*tch he keeps accusing me of being. SOOOO done! And OW - man, did she mess with the wrong woman! She just signed up for hell.

I didn't want to stoop to their level, let them turn me into some angry vindictive person. But war is war, and when someone starts attacking my kids for no reason, just to prove they can? Yeah, I'm over it. I'm mad enough to fight back.

You will BE the mama bear. Repeat that to yourself whenever you have any doubts about doing what you are doing. No one is messing with your babies!

If he thinks he can get by without paying CS...ha ha, don't make me laugh.

She has been attacking my kids all along. But I could buffer them to some extent, keep them away from WH if they didn't want to see him, and at least I could provide for them. This is unbelievable, though. Why does the karma semi truck not run over her? Sheesh!

Maybe it's about to. With me driving:)

You're right. I can be a mama bear if I have to be. And if he's not paying me anyway, I certainly have no reason not to inform his employer of how he spends his time and company resources.

Your kids must think of you as a hero right now. They can't help but see you--levelheaded, calm--and going to war for them. Not making them talk to their demon of a father...etc.

Be Sun Tzu.

That reminds me, if anyone has the link to the "art of war" MB post...RS could use it.

Do you have all the documents you need?

Here it is. Good idea.
The Art of War by Sun Tzu

What is Sun Tzu? I have read bits and pieces of the Art of War.

Thank you for the idea and the link.

I think I have all docs now, except the actual police reports that can take a few days. But they told me they can move forward with just case #s and reports ordered, so hopefully.

Pray for me!

Oh, the author. Sorry:) No hablo Chinese.

It's okay, neither do I.

Not a vet but I'm wondering, if you still have access to that bank account, should you take half of those funds and put them in a new account? You are still married so I would think half of the funds are legally yours, and the $ would help you through until CS is ordered. Vets??

I only took exactly what he is supposed to pay me. There was like $500 more than that in there, and I did go back to get it when he was threatening that he wouldn't pay me again, but he had already withdrawn it.

How did he get like this?

I miss him.

I miss who he was. I just want the psychopath he is now out of my life. Unbelievable what this has done to him, and to our lives.

Rainy - when you didn't post for a day this last week I was worried that this was your situation (it was the morning after your WH was chasing your 16 yr old daughter, so you'll understand why I thought this might be you)
Domestic Violence plus hostage situation

I think you need to talk with a police officer and get a referral to "Women and Children In Crisis" and talk with a counselor there - show them the reports, and everything you are filing to get a protective order.

Here are some other resources you should get acquainted with before you go to Plan B:



http://www.utahbar.org/bars/umba/assets/utah_domestic_violence_shelters.pdf

Save the texts and the emails threatening to financially starve you out of house and home. Take them to the shelter with you. These counselors can help you work with the system to expedite support.

With Josh Powell and other controlling, abusive men in the news in Utah lately, your WH would do well to keep his nose clean. WVC police dept doesn't need anymore bad press on slow investigations. Other PDs in Utah are on notice as a result of the scrutiny WVC is going through that they don't want to be the next ones to have neglected a DV case to the detriment of the lives of the families reporting the abuse.

And believe me - what he is doing is DV!!

I have contacts with the local media if your attorney and the shelter counselors feel that using your case in an anonymous way to leverage financial support faster with the wheels of justice here in Utah, let me know through Justuss.

PS - Plan B in your situation would be much more successful with the Women and Children in Crisis resources. Tap into these for extra protection until he gets through an anger management recovery program AND gets rid of OW.

Thank you. I will look at these. Sorry for scaring anyone - I was trying to deal with this all day yesterday, and was never near a computer to post until late.

Cut that down to about 4 paragraphs, rainy. That is way, way too long. You need to keep it short, sweet, and to the point. It takes 2 sentences to express your love for him, that's all. The more you say, the less he is going to hear. He is fogged out so it needs to be very clear and concise.

Okay, thanks, ML.

EXPOSURE LETTER: I've read the samples, so do I just keep it short and simple? Do I need to explain (simply) why I've waited so long to expose? That she is to trying to talk him into withholding child support? Or just the basics?

Short, sweet and do add that she is trying to persuade him to withhold CS. Be as factual as possible and ask them to use their influence to persuade her to leave your husband alone. You might want to post it here first so we can give you feedback.

Check your email rainy

Also, in light of the meltdown the other day...I personally would lighten up on the "sweet husband" sort of talk especially since you are seeking a PO. To me, it would look odd to describe him as such. You can still communicate to him in a loving manner but I'd watch out how this may make you look should you need to hash it out in court.

I'd also stay away from this phrase that you used..."I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly and hurtful the things we have been through, we can get past it." Given his level of instability and ugliness and you saying you will protect the children from this, it makes me wonder WTH? Think of how his attorney can use such words against you.

KWIM?

Back later

Okay, good advice BR. I didn't even think about that - how much I should probably alter the letter.

Another good idea, ML. I will work on it tonight and post it here first.

I want to expose while there is a PO. Do you all think that is unwise for going to court to get a permanent one? A judge really can't blame me for doing that, right? Or would that be used against me and make me look bad?

Would you suggest waiting until I have a permanent one in place? (Which is an uncertainty. Temporary easier to get than permanent. They told me that would cover 2-3 weeks, and then we would go to court for permanent one).

Would it be better to send Plan B letter after permanent PO as well? Thoughts, anyone? I did not really consider this. I was just thinking hurry and do it all now, so it's done, and while there is a temporary PO in place, so he has time to cool off if permanent one is not granted. (Don't have temporary one yet either, but assuming I will on Monday).

Rainy, I would not put exposure off any longer. Once you get the temp RO, just go nuclear. When was the last time you spoke to the OW's husband? Is he aware the affair is going strong?

I haven't spoken to him in months - couldn't take anymore. I'm sure he is aware. She takes off on vacation with my WH every other week for 3-4 days at a time. He's taking care of the kids and funding her privileged life. He is opposed to telling the kids (no idea how they could not have figured it out by now - maybe they have) and anyone who is not a close friend/family member of theirs. I'm sure people know, but I want the rug ripped out from underneath her. Last time I talked to BH, he told me she was still putting up an amazing front in their church/community of being an upstanding Christian wife/mother. Which he was slightly horrified by, but also helping to maintain for the "benefit of the kids."

My WH tells me constantly that if I had just been as amazing as OW and lied to my kids about all of this, kept them in the dark, they wouldn't have all these issues and would all be just fine. Her untarnished image - if it does still remain anywhere - is going down.

But how do people respond to this? Does the exposing BS just look like a spurned spouse, like the one who's emotionally unstable? Or does it do the damage it's intended to do?

Does anyone know if I can legally post pics of her?

OW BH has also told me she is blatant about the affair in front of him, tries to get him to leave, but he will not for the benefit of the kids. Maybe this will put pressure on him to throw her out and fight for custody. That would shake things up, if she had a dent put in her cushy life.

If he's like most betrayed husbands who loves his children, he's simply putting off the time when he has to lose at least 50% of his time with his children. He also may recognize your WH's violent tendencies and want to put off WH having 50% time access to BH's children.

PO against your husband actually helps him with winning more than 50% custody or at least allows him to put a PO in place to protect his kids which also will put a damper on affair as OW losing in this regard will cause more lovebusting in "paradise). You need to talk with OWH, but I'd work closely with your attorney on how that happens to avoid weakening your own case.

I am horrified that you have known this so long and have not used this ammunition against her. This affair could have been killed a long time ago if you had exposed her. Please don't wait any longer. Do this next week and do it in a HUGE WAY. Do you have a copy of all of her facebook contacts?


You will get support and you will get criticisms. IHow you look to some is not your problem. The truth is that you are not unstable or "spurned" and that is what matters. You are not doing this to get the approval of others, but to stop this affair. If someone disapproves of you, that is not your issue. They are crapwits and you don't need the approval of crapwits.

He sounds like a coward who cares very little for his wife. This is why you need to take matters into your own hands. What does your exposure list look like? And do you know the name of her church? I would send her church pastor a letter too. Ask him to intervene.

My church leader contacted hers in the very beginning of this. There has been ongoing contact between them. I could find out who he is and send a letter, though.

Yes, I should have done this in the very beginning, when my WH was still home and it could have been killed easily. I regret it.

And I don't care how I look to others, just how this looks. I just want to kill the affair (or at least mortally wound it, not add to their army who has me as the "common enemy" and feed the affair instead). True about the PO and her custody issues. Good point.

I'm working on getting a list of her fb friends. Do not currently have it. I blocked her long ago, and she blocked me in "retaliation."

Will fb close my account after this? I don't really care. I only stay on to monitor teenagers. Just wondered.

Actually, he worships his wife. No idea why. Sad. He is very afraid of losing his children, and of having them exposed to this influence with him gone. He also thinks they benefit if they have the illusion of a good mother, and if he can keep the family "together." Although I hear as much about his horribleness as I do about mine, and he told me himself, "She not only no longer treats me as her husband. She does not even treat me with the dignity of a human being."

So when narcissistic man-eater and abusive psycho reveal who they really are, that'll be fun:)

The way to expose on facebook is to get a list of her contacts and send them all PMs with your full name and email address and phone #. If she has you blocked all you have to do is make up a fake FB account and get a copy of her contacts. Copy her contact list into a word doc for safekeeping. When you expose, send the PMs out 60 seconds apart so they don't shut you down for flooding.

I would get that list of her contacts ASAP before it is removed entirely.

I am going by his actions versus what he says. True caring is demonstrated by actions, not by empty words. His actions reflect a man who does not care. He cares more about avoiding conflict than helping his wife and saving his marriage. A person who does nothing does not really care. It is like uncaring family members who ignore destructive behavior of their grown children by saying "I just want him to be happy." What they want is to avoid conflict; they don't really care at all.

He doesn't GET that the reason is because he doesn't ACT like a husband. What kind of a spouse just sits on the sidelines while his spouse self destructs and takes down her marriage? A spouse who doesn't care, that's who.

Okay, well I'm about to do something. I guess maybe that's true. I thought trying to love him and draw him back in from higher ground made more sense first. It almost worked, but didn't. I probably should have just caused nuclear fallout from the day I found out and put an end to it all. Too late now. Have to work with what I can.

*But going along with court and getting a PO, would you just put in the fb message that I love him? Or would you say something about filing for divorce, or that this has caused the complete destruction of our family? That he's not the same person anymore? I don't want the argument in court of, "Which is it? He's crazy and you're afraid of him, or he's your sweet husband and you want your family back together?" It's both, really. My H versus WH addicted alien. 2 different people. Love one, hate the other.

Funny, that's the line my in-laws keep giving me (or did; now I'm mostly cut off). "I just want him to be happy." And I can't figure out why they don't see that he needs help, even if they don't care about my kids and want to believe the monstrification of me.

And, this is my soapbox, but how is it okay for a middle-aged man to find "happiness" in the destruction of his own family? His children?

Okay, I read a link about exposing on fb, and got the 60 seconds thing. But how many messages can you send at once? Can you send to more than 1 person at a time? Or 1 at a time with 60 secs in between? She has like 400 people on her list, last time I checked. When is the best time to expose? Night? Or are there actually more people on then who might flag it and get me shut down? I'm sure some of her sick friends support her and will try to stop me when messages start coming in, but I don't know who's who, so I'll just be sending it out to everyone.

Would you close your own fb account after you send out all the messages with your email? I don't want people getting to my kids.

I would have a second FB account that doesn't have my own list of friends.
In the exposure message, do say the classic MB message.

MY H is having an affair with OW. I love him, our children love him and want to recover from this mess but can not as long as the affair continues. Thank you for any support you can give us. Sincerely, betrayed spouse

Then, whether you hear any responses.....positive or negaitive....it is out there in the universe to be known.

I would not mention the divorce or anything else.

Simple.

Basic fact.

Respectful to all parties (whether seen that way or not)

Thanks.

Oh no! Leave it open but make your friends list private. Change your fb picture to one of you, your husband and your children. People can't get to your kids.

You leave the page open so you get replies and reply to them.

Here is a message to send -change to fit your situation:

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that OW is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with OW to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

Thank you.

RAiny, I mean it. Don't shut down your facebook and don't do it from a fake fb page. Otherwise people think you are a crank and you can be easily dismissed by that ho. People won't believe you if you hide. You are not the one who needs to hide.

They have to be able to ask you questions. And you will likely get messages from OTHER women saying she is having an affair with their husband too. That is valuable intel you can pass to your husband.

I'm so glad rs you're exposing because that's why I was wondering about the PO and it doesn't seem it will make any kind of impact on the PO, correct?

Plan B letter - revised again. ????



My Dearest Husband,

I loved you the day I married you, and I love you still today. You are the love of my youth, the father of my children, the man I shared my life with, my husband of 22 years.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs and helped to create an environment that made it possible for this affair to develop.

I am willing to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I so want to put the past behind us and build a better and beautiful life for us and for our children.

Your affair during our marriage has caused the most emotionally traumatic time of my life. At times it seems to have even changed who you are. You must know how painful this affair has been for me. The last 4 months have been the worst. I can no longer be in contact with you, while you continue to be in contact with her. I must protect myself from this pain.

I will not see you, talk to you, or communicate with you directly in any way. Please respect my need to do this under these circumstances. I have arranged for an impartial intermediary. If you absolutely must contact me, please do it through IM at ( ).

I ask that you do not contact me until you are either enrolled in anger management classes or back on your medication, and until you have ended all contact for life with OW and are willing to commit to our marriage and family. With God�s help, our true healing can then begin.
I want to finish raising our children together, be grandparents together, grow old together. I know that our marriage can be better than it�s ever been, not just something we can survive, but the marriage we both dreamed of the day we got married.

I have done everything that I can do. I am leaving you in God�s hands.

All my love,
Your wife

Good girl! That is perfect!

Love it!!

Okay, ML and BH. I will send from my regular fb page.

I don't know, BH, if it will impact PO or not. I will not do it until I (hopefully) get the PO on Monday. It takes them a couple of days to serve him with notice, so I will wait until that is done. Once served with the PO, he will be arrested if he comes near me or on my property, so I feel safe exposing. (Given his current emotional state, I am expecting him to pretty much lose it completely when I expose - the PO will make me feel much safer).

It will be a temporary PO. I will then have to face him in court 2-3 weeks later and request a permanent one. He can defend himself or have an attorney. The permanent PO is harder to get than a temporary one - I have to convince a judge that he's a long-term threat to me and that he should not be allowed to see his own children.

I wanted to expose during the temporary PO, partly just to get it done - let him freak over everything at once, a tsunami as they said, and then calm down, and partly so my kids and I would be safe, in case I can't get the permanent PO. That gives him time to calm down, when he can't come near me.

But I don't know if exposing will make me look like I was using the PO to be manipulative, that I'm a sham, that I got it on purpose so I could expose, and therefore work against me in getting the permanent PO. Make sense?

Then again, I can tell the judge that given his recent over the edge behavior, and OW trying to get him to take away CS besides, I've just had it and decided it's time to stand up for myself and fight back.

Agree with this reasoning. And I expect him to freak out over exposure during the temp PO and that will help you get a permanent one.

My thoughts exactly!!

I got it right?! Wahoo!

Thanks so much:) What a relief.

Okay, and thanks for the thoughts on exposure and PO as well.

So bizarre that I can actually feel some relief in things hitting rock bottom. Nice to finally not feel like I'm free-falling, I guess. Bruised and battered, still alive, and no more of that horrible gut-wrenching, terrifying, when-am-i-gonna-hit feeling.

I'm very grateful to everyone who has helped me with this.

I have noticed that you are becoming less emotional in your thinking and more STRATEGIC. Have you noticed that??

That is because you now have a PLAN and are taking back control of your life. See how good you feel already!!??

You are doing so GOOD!!!!

yes, I see

Yes much stronger!!! Atta girl!!

I would be very careful about what you put in writing if you're faced with this kind of legal action. If anything, make sure you put it ALL on the table everytime you write something. So in your plan B letter, you only talk about the affair, not his dangerous threatening behavior. If he brings it to the judge for your permanent injunction hearing, you will look very petty, like you were just doing this to get back at him for his affair. Same goes with the FB messages, they will get back to him, he can bring them in and show the judge and spin it.

So, what I would suggest, is that in your plan B letter you also discuss his behavior, and that you also mention it in the FB messages. Something like, "In addition to the affair, H has been acting erratically and dangerously in recent weeks/months, and we would have a lot of work to do to recover our marriage. However, for the sake of my children and our future happiness, I am willing to try and would like your help in ending the affair as there can be no improvement on other areas of our lives until that is over." And in the Plan B letter, something along the lines of how his dangerous behavior is something that would need to change prior to recovery.

I haven't had a chance to go back through your thread, but have you read what Dr. H says about uncontrolled anger/violence and how the person should live seperately and demonstrate a year of complete anger free life before reconciling? I think this is every bit the threat to your marriage and your children as the affair, and you seem to think so to, as you're taking good, protective action in seeking a PO. So don't downplay it in this communication with him and others...because even if the affair ended, you would have to address his violence and lack of control before you could move forward.

Hope that helps!

I've read something from Dr. Harley on anger issues, but not recently. I'll look for it.

Yes, it is a major issue. His medication makes a night and day difference, though. He told me flat out he is not taking it partly because he wants to completely feel the "highs" of the affair, and partly so he can "be in the emotional state he needs to be in in order to do this." Destroy me, he says, and quit caring about his children. This is the first time in at least 12 or 13 years that he has gone months, or even weeks, without taking his meds. I really wish OW had to deal with him ALL the time, and vice versa. It wouldn't be long before the anger was directed at her. Very convenient that he can tell me that's all my fault too - I make him crazy, he's not like this around anyone else. Well, if I'm not around to be the scapegoat, someone else will be sooner or later. Hopefully her.

I don't even know that therapy would do it - it's a chemical thing (not that he is not responsible for his behavior - he is). The affair has gotten to the out of control point, where his whole life is consumed and run by an addiction. The anger goes along with it. If the affair ended, I think he would be far more likely to get his head on straight and do something about the anger (and taking his meds) as well. He is a completely different person when he gets some space from her. This is the worst it's ever been. He cannot be a rational human being, and continue in the destructive behavior he engages in.

I see your point, but I still feel a little torn over it all. I've sent rotten messages to him lately too, honestly. This affair has changed all of us - our entire family. It destroys everyone. Dr. Harley even said that in SAA. I watch him hurt my kids, and I lose it at him. Or I get a message dictated by OW that is absolutely horrible and I let it get to me and send one back. Stupid of me. I did go for several months without a harsh word, just trying to love him. Did the same thing his last year at home. And he started to pull out both times, it made a difference. But then she sucked him back in. It gets worse any time he pulls out a little bit, and then dives back in. The last 4 months have been hell, and I have been reactive instead of proactive. Our entire family has just done a face plant. Even the kids are struggling more, not "getting used to it" like he thinks they will. He now has all that to use against me, unfortunately.

Part of my separating from him is to pull myself out of the craziness that I've allowed myself to get sucked into in all of this, to change my own behavior. My children and I all need to get away from him for as long as he is going to choose this path, in order to get ourselves into a more physically and emotionally healthy place. I don't want it to turn into a "he said/she said, he's crazy/she's crazy" battle. I am not physically threatening or violent to anyone, especially my children. Nor do I have the gift for manipulating things and appearing so "smooth" to others while being a raging psycho to my family. I do have police reports and the observations of others in those to back me up. But he can send out things I've said in emails and text messages to people on fb too. It isn't close to the same, but he is gifted at manipulation and dishonesty with this affair running his life.

I want the point to be trying to end the affair and restore my family to whatever point is possible, not mud-slinging, and people thinking we are just using this to get at each other. I wish I had maintained my sweet calmness, but I didn't. I am more calm again, but not sweet. I'm mad. WH and OW have finally ticked me off completely to the point where I just want to end this thing. Leaving it alone only allows it to spiral further and further downward, dragging me and my children with it. I don't care what it does to either of their lives anymore, as they seem to actually take pleasure in destroying not only my life, but even my children's lives. This is not the man I know, and the puppet on strings that she dances around has got to go. Watching while he does this to his own life, and everyone else's, is no form of love, as ML said above. If he was on drugs, I'd do everything I could to get him off of them, and to protect myself and my children from the horrible influence. No different. Worse, in fact, in my opinion.

Pay that gratitude forward to other BSs.

You should save a copy of this excellent metaphor and use it on BWs dragging out Plan A into Plan C.

I get tired of nagging gaslit, half-crazed BWs into Plan B and your post makes the point I so often try to make about when enough is enough so perfectly.



Have you been reading Art of War? Your understanding and grip of the situation is flawless.

Plan B will be a peaceful zen garden for you and hell for the affairees.

No, I need to read that. I will.

Thanks:)

Sorry for being one of those BW's you had to help drag into Plan B, but thanks!

Hahaha don't mention it! Its a pleasure to see you blossom.

I dont think you will have to be dragged into plan b. There is a BW who took amost 6 months and 200 pages before she went into plan b. Even then there were numerous holes to plug up....so another 2 weeks before she was dark. I doubt you will be like her. She is still around.......and posts occasionally.... just dont be like me....ummmmm her.

Thanks. Glad to know I'm not the only one. Going ok for you?

First draft of Exposure Letter, but I need some advice??? (Keep in mind that I am trying to get a PO and will most likely be going to court, so although I do love WH, I don't want to give him things to use against me). Thanks!



Dear Friend of OW,

It grieves me to write this letter, but I believe it is time that her friends be aware that OW began an affair with my husband by contacting him on fb in August 2008 that has continued on and off ever since. WH and I have been married for 22 years. This affair has been devastating to our family; it has altered all of us. It has gotten to the point where my children and I hardly recognize the man we knew and loved for so many years. OW has wreaked havoc in our lives, and is even to the point of encouraging WH to withhold child support in order to fund the bi-weekly vacation time they now spend together. There would be much to work on in order to recover our marriage now. For the sake of my children and our future happiness, I am willing to try. But there can be no improvement in other areas of our lives until this affair has ended. For those of you who believe in marriage and family, please use any influence you may have with OW to encourage her to focus on healing the damage she has done to her own family, and to leave mine alone. I am not going to publicly post anything, but I am willing to provide proof of this affair to anyone who requests it.

BW
Email address


Should I add something like, �I think OW�s friends should know the truth about her.� Or, �Men, beware - she has no qualms about using you for whatever she can get out of you. And women, watch your husbands. This woman is no friend to marriage or family.� ??? Or leave it more neutral?

According to a snooper of mine, OW does seem to still be keeping up her �upstanding Christian wife/mother in the church/community� image. She has friends giving her �beautiful soul� awards on her fb page. Can I throw up now? Or punch something? (shudder). The hypocrisy is unbelievable. How best to take this b**ch down? Just the facts? Or make it sting a little? Thoughts, please???

Okay, I got approval for this, but given the advice below, I'm considering adding in a sentence or 2 that says something like, "It has come to the point where I, and even our children, actually feel afraid of you. (This breaks my heart.)" Do you all think I need to add something like that? Or is saying he needs to get back on meds or enroll in anger management enough?

Given this advice - sorry. Do I need to alter Plan B letter?

Your letter's perfect. The right blend of bait and hook. Address the other issues as conditions if he wants to meet your terms and reconcile.

Thanks, IG. When you get a sec, will you read the exposure letter above and give me advice on that too? So appreciate your time!

I would definitely add something to point out what is only the truth. Something along the lines of "I think as OW's family and friends you should know the truth so you can protect your marriage and family from her".

Its as neutral as I could get whilst still pointing out that OW has no morals.

Thank you, Caracal.

Exposure letter 2:




It grieves me to write this letter, but I think as OW�s family and friends, you should know the truth so you can protect your marriage and family from her � she is no friend to either. OW began an affair with my husband by contacting him on fb in August 2008 that has continued on and off ever since. WH and I have been married for 22 years. This affair has been devastating to our family; it has altered all of us. It has come to the point where my children and I hardly recognize the man we knew and loved for so many years. OW has wreaked havoc in our lives, and is even to the point of encouraging WH to withhold the child support payments he has always been faithful in making, in order to fund the bi-weekly vacation time they now spend together. There would be much to work on in order to recover our marriage after all this. For the sake of my children and our future happiness, I am willing to try. But there can be no improvement in other areas of our lives until this affair has ended. I will provide proof of this affair to anyone who requests it. For those of you who believe in marriage and family, please use any influence you may have with OW to encourage her to focus on healing the damage she has done to her own family, and to leave mine - and yours - alone.

BW
Email address

I like it. Usually I am not fond of putting in more than the bare minimum detail, as people have short attention spans, but I think what you have included re finances is good.

I would throw in a couple of facts, like "my H and OW fly to see other often to pursue their sexual affair, using our family money. Most recently they went on a vacation together to crapwit, Ohio." add the word "sexual" in front of affair wherever you can.

Instaed of saying she started a fb affair, say "ow has been having a sexual affair with my husband since 2008."

Remove these sentences: There would be much to work on in order to recover our marriage after all this. For the sake of my children and our future happiness, I am willing to try. But there can be no improvement in other areas of our lives until this affair has ended

So rs when are you sending out the exposure letters?

Okay, thanks. Did you get the post where someone suggested that I add this with pursuing a PO, so I don't look all sweet and loving here, and then look like a 2-faced ninny to the court? Still think I should take this out? I don't really like the way this sounds, either, but I want to cover my bases.

I go back to court today to hopefully FINALLY get PO. Once he is served with that, so I know my children and I are safe, this is gonna EXPLODE:)

What is a PO?
'scuse my ignorance

Protective order.

Thanks, Brain.
I figured it out on my way to the fridge.
I need a PO from the fridge.

Still no PO. This is crazy. They MIGHT be able to get police reports by tomorrow. If they do, then they can decide if I can even formally request it. 2 1/2 days off work, kids out of school for 3 days. Crazy.


This is my new exposure letter. I think it's too long, but I'm not sure what to take out and what to keep in. It's taking longer than I wanted it to to get everything lined up, but I'm going to be ready when the stars are aligned:)



Dear Friend of OW,

It grieves me to write this letter, but I think as OW�s family and friends, you should know the truth so you can protect your own marriages and families from her � she is no friend to either. OW contacted WH on fb in August 2008 and began an emotional affair that turned sexual with her visit to ____ in July 2009. It has continued on and off, with them meeting up for sex in varying degrees of frequency ever since. At present things are the worst they have ever been, with WH and OW flying back and forth across the country about every 2 weeks in order to meet up and pursue their sexual affair. WH flew to meet her last weekend � I�m not sure if they met up in NY or somewhere else. To my knowledge, OW was most recently here in ___ during the week of April 13th. OW is now even encouraging WH to withhold the child support payments he has always been faithful in making, in order to fund these now bi-weekly sexual escapades.

WH and I have been married for 22 years. This affair has been devastating to our family; it has altered all of us. I have done everything I can to keep our marriage and family together. WH did end the affair at one point, in July 2010, but OW continued to pursue him. She has wreaked havoc in our lives. It has come to the point where my children and I hardly recognize the man we knew and loved for so many years. We all love him still, but there can be no improvement in other areas of our lives until this affair has ended. I will provide proof of this affair to anyone who requests it. For those of you who believe in marriage and family, please use any influence you may have with OW to encourage her to focus on healing the damage she has done to her own family, and to leave mine � and yours � alone.

BW
Email address

I want to get AWAY from him! I hate the feeling I get when I see him on my caller i.d.

Who knows how many more days to get the PO. I am thinking of sending Plan B letter now, instead of waiting for PO first. But I also started reading "The Art of War," and want to be strategic - not stupid. Would it be wise to wait a few more days, if necessary to get the protective order, in case he explodes? Or send Plan B now and hope he honors it, to try to escape the turmoil he brings to my life?

I have also thought that during the temporary PO period, maybe I shouldn't block his calls/emails. Because if he DOES contact me when he is not supposed to during that time frame, it would help with getting the permanent PO. Why can't he just poof away in a puff of purple smoke?

He withheld child support on Friday - it's supposed to be direct deposited into my account, and he changed it. I took it out of his bank (my name is still on that account) - only what he owed me, nothing more. Then he freaked out about how he was not going to pay me, I would have to come beg for my money, he could hold it for 2 months before the courts could do anything, etc. So I went back to drain the rest so I would have money to live on, if he really wasn't going to pay me.

I could only get $60, because he had figured it out and taken most of the rest out. He sent me a threatening text that night about how dare I remove money from his account and he was thinking of having me arrested for stealing (puh-leeze!) He also told me what a moron I am, I'm so terrible with money, if I budgeted better I wouldn't be in dire straights, he didn't care if I couldn't make the house payment or buy groceries for the kids - that was my fault for being so stupid, this is what's wrong with me, I should have money saved up, not be down to dollars every payday.

Apparently he just figured out about the extra $60. So he left me a sweet message just now about how he simply does not have the funds to cover it, please put the $60 back in his account TODAY (his bank is a good half hour away - I already made a trip there Friday to get my money), he really needs the money, he doesn't have a dime to his name. (Flew across the U.S. last weekend, spent 3 nights in NY with OW - want to start adding up plane tickets, rental car, wining and dining, hotels, etc. for 4 days in NYC?) Yes, I definitely have a problem with budgeting. Oh, and he looked in my garbage can (????) and saw frozen burrito wrappers. Well, if I would spend my money wisely and make my children homemade dinner every night and not throw money away on frozen foods, I would be fine without his money. Perhaps if I invested in prostitutes instead, that would be a more prudent use of family funds? Crazy, crazy, CRAZY!!!

Should I seriously give the $60 back? Or should I remind him of his own sage advice to me? Or not bother to acknowledge him, since he's been a raging psycho for the past 2 weeks, and suddenly he's sweet as pie since he has $60 left to his name, after blowing it all on his most recent bi-weekly vacation?

I feel like Alice in Wonderland. I just want to get out of this whacko, upside down and backwards place that is such a twisted version of my life.

I wouldn't worry about answering him about the $60. He is most likely going to withhold any future CS, so I would get on that, and figure out your budget and any legal rights, and recourse that you must take.

If you aren't going to block him on your phones, or emails, then I would have your IM keep your phone for a few days after entering PB, and changing your email passwords. This way, you can still have the evidence you need, but you won't know anything about it, at the time. It's about protecting yourself.

If you can't get the PO tomorrow, are you still going to expose? You can expose while in PB. It is sometimes suggested.

If you are already ignoring him, and not meeting any of his ENs, then why don't you pull the PB trigger sooner rather than later?

WHAT is going on with this PO???

I have helped people get temporary restraining orders many times, (used to work with victims of domestic violence), and because of the dangerous situation have always been able to get them quickly, as in domestic assault one night and an OFP (Order For Protection which is what we called them when I worked in the field) the next morning. I cannot imagine what is holding this up, there is a serious flaw in your system there.

This man is digging through your garbage. This is a serious situation with a ticking time bomb off his rocker. Make sure you are documenting everything and keep working on this, push it, make sure they know this is a domestic situation and you fear for your safety.

There are vets on here who have seen it all regarding people in 'the fog.' I am not one of those. I am however trained in domestic violence and I am very worried about your Plan B letter going to your WH prior to getting some protection in place for yourself and your kids. I have a real bad feeling about his mental stability and a Plan B letter could be just the thing to push him over the edge.

I get conflicting messages on here, and feel conflicted myself. I want to send the Plan B letter, but I am afraid it will push him over the edge. I know exposure will. I want the PO in place beforehand. I think things are coming to a head, with her maybe thinking she can make a nice clean break with her husband and still look squeaky clean - I want to expose ASAP. But I don't dare to do either until I have a PO. The person I had left evidence with (of the affair - I couldn't stand to keep it around) seems to have misplaced it, so I also have to try to get that without putting myself in danger. I need something to be able to send people if they request evidence after I expose, or I defeat the whole purpose. I thought I had what I needed, but I have nothing.

I had no idea it was such a pain to get a protective order. You would think trying to run your own daughter off the road would be enough, but apparently his rights override ours. We have to have enough "proof."

I just want him to leave me alone. The most recent hold-up is that I have to have copies of police reports documenting domestic violence. I went to request them Fri, and was told it takes TEN DAYS to get them. I thought the court could get them faster, but they sent me back to get the records again today. The person who does the records is gone today - they said come back tomorrow. I can't take another day off work. I don't know what to do. I've been going through the Victim's Advocate office. They told me I can try to do it on my own, but then I have to face him alone in court, which scares the crap out of me - especially since he is such a smooth liar, can look someone in the eye and lie, convince them he is a victim, or the sanest man on the planet, and then turn psycho as soon as we are out of there.

Off his meds, and consumed by an addiction, I have no idea what he is capable of anymore.

I guess I will hope they can get copies of the police reports in to the Victim's Advocate's office tomorrow.

I appreciate any prayers. I need all the help I can get. He keeps calling tonight, wanting to see the kids again, wanting to tell me how awful I am. I know if he shows up here I can call the police again, but I am tired of living like this. I want it over. I'm sad, but he just is no longer the man I love.

Does exposure ever work this late in the game? If I could get rid of that woman, maybe something of him would surface again. It is worse than watching someone you love die of cancer. The same black death takes them over, kills them slowly, takes them away from you. But then you have this burned-out shell walking around still, or trying to make your life hell.

Okay, someone prayed for me! A different victim's advocate person called me. Said she could have police reports printed in the morning. (Still the matter of getting them downtown to courthouse and going to work, but I'll get it figured out). WH went out of town (for work, not sex - far as I know, anyway:), so he's outta my hair for a day or 2 anyway. And my holder of incriminating info called to say they found the flash drive I asked them to stash a long time ago. YAY!

Now I just need advice on the Exposure letter, so I'm ready to go when the PO is in place. I'll post it again below.

Tried to throw in everyone's advice, but I think it's too long. What do I cut out, and what is important?

Legal Aid finally told me they decline to help me with the PO, after I got police reports. The officer who helped me Wed night, who was so concerned about WH's mental stability, did not put any of that in the report, although he did say that he advised me to get a PO. I have a call into him, but have not heard back.

So I'm trying to proceed on my own, but I will have to face WH in court. Any advice, unwritten?

Also, I need to make sure Exposure letter is good to go. Anyone have advice on that (in above post)?

Thanks.

Has anyone been through the Protective Order thing? Our legal separation order says "visitation as WH and children agree." So they are not legally obligated to go with him, and don't want to. (And he hasn't cared for a year and a half - now he suddenly wants to force them to go with him - it's about threatening and controlling me, not being a dad).

I'm reading all this paperwork on PO's - trying to file my own, as legal aid denied me. There's all this stuff in there about custody, his parental rights, etc. Is this going to rock the boat more? Bring a judge in who will force my kids to go with him after all this? I'm trying to get the PO for them too - they're afraid of him, he keeps threatening to take them. I do NOT want my children to have to go with him.

Hi RS,

What part of the PO process are in right now then? I familiarized myself with the Utah PO process as I am sure it is different in every state (and it's been awhile since I've worked in that field, about 15 yrs). Have you had any kind of hearing with the judge yet? From what I can read online you have to file your PO paperwork with the clerks office and then you will go before a judge with your request? The judge can, if he/she thinks it necessary, order a temporary PO and I think you would qualify for that given the volatility of your situation and the fact that you are in the process of going into Plan B (you don't need to use these terms obviously, but explain how you feel this new plan on your part will send your WH over the edge). Make sure the judge is aware of not only what HAS happened but that you are about to rock the boat. The chance of violence skyrockets when a woman leaves her abuser, I think going into Plan B will be the equivalent to your WH. You are taking away cake that he has eaten for a very very long time, and that he feels entitled to eat.

Just wondering where you are in the process. The online 'process' for Utah seems pretty cut and dry but doesn't sound like it is that in practice, whereas my experience like I said has always been cut and dry. (Although, following an arrest or hospitalization due to DV so maybe that carried more weight than your fear of a possible future episode...)

As far as the hearing for the final PO, and how to deal with WH being there. Any time you are in his presence it is a threat. Make sure the court is aware of that. Don't be afraid to request security assistance to and from your vehicle that day. I think its STUPID to require the person who is trying to get a PROTECTIVE ORDER (and obviously for a reason) to meet in the same location, at the same time, with the person who is a threat to them.

Why did legal aid turn you down for help? Another resource you might want to try is any domestic violence services in your area. There are many non profit DV services and they are usually ready to assist ANY person who feels they are in danger. I know the service I worked for would have assisted you. They may be willing to walk you through the process and give you further advice that is specific to your area. Also when I worked in the field, we knew the process, the shortcuts, had friends in the courts, knew judges that were sympathetic to the cause, etc. I think I read you are in the SLC area and I would bet there are some good resources there.

Thanks, unwritten. I tried to go through Legal Aid for the PO, as advised by Victim's Advocates (the DV help in my area). They told me if I got police reports, they would help me. I'm shortening a very long story, but VA finally got the reports for me, then LA turned me down - not enough evidence. (3 police reports, all 3 recommended I get a PO). I cannot prove injuries to myself or property.

The officer who helped me last time told me WH was over the edge emotionally, an obvious threat, had been following the kids. He did not put any of that in his report. I called to ask him to revise it - he has not called me back. He did say he advised me to get a PO for myself and the children.

I am now pursuing it on my own - filled out the forms online (thanks so much for taking time to look at those), trying to get them to the courthouse after work today. I do not get to speak to a judge for the initial temporary PO, so cannot explain Plan B or anything else. I agree that it may push WH over the edge and put me, and the kids, in danger. It is RIDICULOUS to require me to present in court, in front of him - I argued with that. His rights outweigh mine. If they don't grant it, I will definitely be in danger - my worst fear. That I'll try to get this, not get it, and just really tick him off.

In reading through the online forms, they had things about his "parental rights," how it is in the "best interest" of the children to have to see him. I am afraid now that if I pursue this, the judge may order the kids to see him - that's what WH will absolutely push for in retaliation. He knows that is how to get to me - the kids. If the kids are forced to see him, that's worse than how things are now. Why is our legal system so completely screwed up? I feel very trapped, exactly where he wants me. Afraid to do Plan B or expose - both things I need to do.

My advice at this point is to not make your decisions based on fear. When dealing with a volitale person this is very, very difficult. You have a reason to fear him and fear his retaliation. But you have to make smart decisions that are the best for you, take as many precautions along the way as you can, and roll with the punches.

In other words, get the PO. If it fails and you cannot get one, then at least you tried to protect yourself and your children, and documented that you tried in case there is future retaliation. The system doesn't always work, that is true! But you can't let the fear of failing stop you from trying.

I still say get that paperwork filed and try for the temporary PO before you send the Plan B letter. Be prepared to send it as soon as that PO is in place. Frankly, a PO is not going to stop him from trying to contact you, just give you ammunition if you need to involve the authorities. When you send it, is there some place else you can stay besides your home? I don't want you to be afraid of going home, but this is a man who stalks you outside your house, is digging through your garbage... I don't think you will be safe there when he gets that PB letter. At least for a couple days, give him time to cool down. He WILL do everything he can to break through that Plan B, I am certain. And his first stop will be your home.

You cannot let fear of him keep you from living your life and protecting yourself and you kids the best you can.

If they don't want to see him...well...let's just say your not making them go is probably making you a hero to them.

If push comes to shove, you can go to court and have the kids say that they don't want to see him.

Isn't 12 the age where they can say whether or not they want to see him? I think it depends on the state.

I thought 12 was too, which is part of why I dragged this out - to wait until my youngest son turned 12 and had a choice. But Utah is getting more pro-dad, and I've heard not just one, but several custody horror stories lately, even 16 and17-year-olds forced to go with a father they didn't want to go with. My lawyer told me flat out to try to avoid going head-to-head with him regarding custody issues, because a Utah judge at this point in time would be likely to insist on visitation, if not joint custody.

Another long story, but he's even making life hard for my 19-year-old son, impacting his employment and trying to go to school. Even when they reach "adulthood" they can't escape him. He says he wants us out of his life, he's going to get a new family, we should all move on. But then on the "off" weeks away from OW, he comes after everyone to make sure we can't. It's a sick mess. I told him the thinking he can skim the cream off the top and just take the best of both worlds, without ever having to dive into anything underneath and deal with real life in either scenario, is so unfair and ridiculously immature. He doesn't want to be a dad, but wants the kids to fill in all the empty holes in him when he can't get constant "hits" off his "drug." So not their job!!! He said it's his choice, his life, he can do what he wants, no one can tell him what to do (except OW who orders him even to quit paying CS, so he does).

I know I can't make decisions just out of fear, but I do need to be strategic. My kids are the most important thing. I don't want to make their lives harder. At this point I don't know that they would even be physically safe with him - I'm not even getting into emotional trauma or who or what they'd be exposed to.

But he has virtually abandoned them, has been unwilling to help even when I've asked him to, is never there when they need him.

I can fight him; I just don't want to. I will if I have to.

I could leave my house, but I almost think that might be the safest place. As I said, he has no way to enter, and if he sets foot on the property, they will arrest him. In fact, part of me hopes he does lose it during the temporary PO period; it will make it easier to get the permanent one. Plus it might help OW BH to get custody of his kids, so maybe he would man up and throw her out. WH and OW deserve each other at this point - all the dark and ugly corners, not just surface sunshine.

I just want to get out, and give my kids a good life. This forum has been good for me. I feel confused and stressed, but I do feel strength coming back that I have not felt in a long time. I no longer feel like I need him. I miss who he was, but who he is choosing to be now is not someone that my children or I need to be around.

You likely WILL have to go to bat for the kids. Be prepared for that--and do not let your lawyer dictate to you what to do.

Something tells me he might visit the house after the PO--what with the kids refusing to see him and all.

Also, start making a diary of his parenting behaviors, bad and good. When he attempts to see them, etc. It can only help your custody case.

Thanks. Good ideas.

Rainy, don't be afraid of telling the courts what you want or petitioning for what you want. You might not get it, but trying will not hurt and then its on the record that you ASKED before he proves you NEED it.

And don't fear upsetting or setting off a wayward. That really is a waste of your worry. He's a howling storm who would blame you for the effects of gravity. So you might as well upset him - he's already upset.

Have you read Art of War? When weak appear strong.

From what you say, your fears and the trend with Utah law makes you weak, so it is more important than ever to 'go to the mattresses'. Faking unrelenting stregnth worries waywards and makes them hestitate in case their actions make them lose their cake forever.

WH would happily strong arm you into playing along with the law to get cake, but a show of stregnth could instead see him forced to either make a decision or lay low until he makes it.

Essentially a show of stregnth makes the enemy reconsider attack, but you have to go in there guns blazing.


I would delete the stuff in brackets, for brevity. Rest is fine.

Hi rainy,

Please do not let getting the PO dictate exposure and Plan B. A PO is only a piece of paper when all is said and done. If WH does flip out, then you can call the police whether it be for harassment, threats, etc. Do you have any friends or family in law enforcement that may be of some assistance?

I would call your landlord and make it clear that should WH contact him to try and gain entry to your house, that he is your stbx and is NOT authorized to go into your house under ANY circumstances. In your rental agreement you may have addressed who is allowed entry into your home but please do this. Many people don't think and just assume oh it's ok...this person is the husband, wife, mom, dad, and can let someone in the house. Put this in writing as well...seems kind of a no duh but you'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't).

If WH demands visitation...have you spoken to the local police to see what they would do? If not, I would ask and tell them what the agreement states. If your paperwork states that the children get to decide, I don't see an officer making them go. If someone was dumb enough to agree with ex, I'd raise holy hell and ask for supervisor after supervisor because that is not what your written agreement says. Can't imagine a PD would want that sort of liability but just check so you know what to expect.

I would also contact the childrens' school and tell them that if WH shows up and tries to get the children released to him then to please contact you ASAP and do not release the children. Give them a copy of the written agreement if they want it. Tell your children not to go with WH should he show up at school either. Even if your WH went to court to force visitation, it will not happen overnight. He will likely be a major screw up between now and then so document everything.

When will you be exposing?

Thank you all! I got it! After 3 days with Legal Aid, I finally filled out online papers last night and walked into a different courthouse - all by myself - at 4:30 today. The sweet lady there stayed until 5:30 to get it done for me. Scariest thing I've ever done. And I feel so happy and free! No idea what's going to happen, but I know I am done letting this run my life, done living under WH's thumb and in fear of him and what he will do.

Protective Order in my hand - I will have it at my children's schools in the morning! WH went out of town for business this week. (I think it really may actually have been for business - weird:) So I've had a reprieve in which to do this. I will have to face him in court, which terrifies me. The legal aid paralegal said who knows if I'll get a permanent one. But the lady at the courthouse today told me, "He would basically have to prove that everything you said in this PO request - including the police report - is a lie . . . I can't guarantee you, but I think you're pretty safe." Made me feel a lot better.

You are all right - he blames me for the color of the sky, regurgitates everything OW tells him to, and is going further and further downhill ANYWAY. Thank you for the "when weak, appear strong" reminder. (I am reading the art of war, just a few chapters in). The weaker I seem to be, the harder he comes after me. I did warn him a couple of weeks ago, let the "dark side" take me over for a moment. I'll probably get edited, but I'm feeling kinda powerful right now, so I'm gonna share anyway. In reference to OW running his life - and consequently mine and my children's lives - I told him, "Someone's got to grow a pair here, WH . . . Looks like it may have to be me." Fair warning, right? I still think he's gonna be a bit surprised:)

Maybe this will scare him off, even if I don't get a permanent PO. At least he knows I'm done being run over by him and OW. I can appear strong. So done with OW running my life, dictating everything through him. I will definitely be standing up to her. Also got the name of an attorney who takes "alienation of affection" cases. Might as well try anything I can to make her life just a little bit of the hell that she so enjoys bringing to mine. It's never enough for her - getting him away from his family, taking him over, ruining our lives. She's not happy unless she has him coming after me constantly, trying to make my life worse. Even my kids' CS now? No. Soooo done with OW. She definitely thinks I am weak. I'm trying not to let evil vindictive thoughts take me over, but the thought of knocking that little plastic princess tiara off her spoiled rotten 4-year-old head does make me smile:)

So, I plan to mail Plan B letter in the morning - he will probably get it Friday, which I think is the day he's coming back into town. True, that if he doesn't have the PO yet and comes after me, I can just call the police - more documentation. I think it's time to send it. It's been 2 weeks since he saw OW, so I would think he's meeting up with her this weekend. Maybe not, with his business trip. I'm trying to plan exposure carefully. I want to do it after he's been served with the PO, and ideally just after he gets home from a trip with her, so I have a couple of weeks of them apart in which to divide them further. Definitely not while they are together and it can unite them - want to make sure they are across the country from each other when that hits, that she's at home with BH and her teenagers, and all the friends and church people who think so highly of her, when they get the fb message. I want her right in the middle of whatever nuclear fallout hits.

So, I'm doing some casual snooping to figure out the exposure schedule, and proceeding forward with my life.

Bless everyone who has helped me with this. I never could have done it without the advice, support, and encouragement that I have received here! I feel like I have a whole lot of good people here in the trenches with me now, instead of standing naked in a battlefield all alone.

Well done. I'm glad you've got your PO now its time to get onto your exposure and start attacking the A. Its probably good to get this going while your feeling good about the PO. The first step takes courage (remember the good advice you've been given) once you start you will feel empowered. You will feel good that the truth is out there and you have stood against the A.

So rs with all the good that happened today exposure would be good tonight.

Get while the gettn' is good.

When are you exposing?

You are simply awesome!

Now get on that exposure.

Yes, I will! I want to make sure he gets served with the PO first, so my kids and I are safe. I expect him to lose it a little:) Or a lot. She will be FREAKING out at him to, "Do something! Stand up for me! Defend my honor!" Yes, I've heard that more than once from OW. Slightly humorous, isn't it?

Defend my honor! Ha ha...haha! No seriously!

Tell me another one.

I just saw your posts, BH and TW. Do you think I should expose tonight? He doesn't know about the PO yet. Hasn't been served. And if he stays on schedule, he will be with OW this weekend - don't' want them together conspiring against me, and him trying to "fix" it all for her, especially if he doesn't have PO yet.

Do you all still think I should expose tonight???

And can I message more than one person at a time? She has like 400 fb friends. Or just 1 every 60 seconds? That'll be a looonnng night. Longer day for her the next day, though, wink wink.

Do you know when he will be served or at least have a general idea? I would maybe wait until he gets served just so that you are protected. I could easily be wrong and will be corrected if so.

Can you believe she says that? She's written it in letters even. Which she signs, "your angel." Angel of death. Can you say, "sociopathic narcissistic nymphomaniac?" Who wouldn't kill for this woman, seriously?

It would probably be better to expose now, than to wait.

That way, the fallout happens before the PO. I don't want anything to happen, but any backlash from him might give you time to get extra evidence to back the PO before it's put into effect.

They told me between 2 days up to as long as a week. He is out of town, I think until Friday, but maybe only until tomorrow (not with OW for once). I was thinking wait for that too. I dunno, though.

This is a temporary PO. I have to go to a court hearing on May 31st (and face him) to get a permanent one. If he violates the temporary PO after he's been served with it and before I go to the hearing for a permanent one, that is a VERY good thing for me (assuming he doesn't kill me:) because they will almost surely grant the permanent one in that situation. So, I almost kinda hope it really does tick him off, and that I'm protected, and it works against him in that time frame. No? I admit I'm feeling all gung-ho right now. But trying to think logically too - art of war. Don't rush into battle unprepared.

I would expose tonight. Hit family from her facebook and people who are married.

You don't have to do all 400 but do a big chunk.

How far away is his business trip?

Okay, how safe would you feel if you did this right now without the protection order served?

This, IMO, is the one thing that has to be considered.

If you feel okay with it, then launch that puppy.

What do you have on your plate this week, Rainy? I'd probably wait if you need to finish out the school/work week or have a lot going on. Once exposure starts it can take a toll on your time. Get some rest.

RS, If you exposed tonight, could you & kids stay with family for a while?

We could camp out on my parents' floor, but not far away, and not any safer. He'd go there in a heartbeat, has before. And the kids would complain - not comfortable. And my parents would have more anxiety than they already do about all of this - not something I want to do to them if I can avoid it.

WH is only about 3 hours away, and I could totally see him storming up here in a rage. I'm a teacher - if he barrels into my workplace, it's a little more traumatic than an office job or something. Yes, they lock outside doors, but kids come in and out from portables, etc. - if he wanted to get in undetected, he could. I just took 2 1/2 days off trying to get the PO. I really can't afford to take more time off. My youngest son also goes to my school - he's in a portable outside, easier to get to if WH sets his mind to it.

I would love to get it over with. But I would fear for my safety. But then, he's kept me afraid of him for a long time, and I'm tired of it.

I would kind of like to finish out the school/work week as BR said. I'm worn out from dealing with all the PO stuff, and my daughter has a party here tomorrow night that we planned awhile ago - can't make her cancel it. But I don't want to lose my courage.

I think I answered my own question. As much as I would feel a lot of relief in just getting this over with, and he is out of town, I just have no idea of what he is capable of right now. I do not know what he would/would not do. He is only 3 hours away, and if he came barreling up here in the morning, he would arrive smack in the middle of a work day for me.

If there is even the slightest possibility that I could be putting other people's children in danger, then I have to wait. I am responsible for 24 little souls every day - their emotional and physical well-being while they are in my care. I can't put them at risk, even if it's only a slight risk. And I'm not sure that it is. It could be a major risk.

So even my safety and my children's aside, I can't risk him storming into my school or classroom.

I'll wait. Thanks, all.

Have you.changed the locks?

He never lived here. The kids and I moved into our own house 4 months ago. He has no key, doesn't know the garage door code - I just changed it again to be safe, and we lock the inside garage door too. There's a broom handle in the sliding door. He can't get in without breaking in, which would cause big problems for him.

Then go ahead and finish out the week. Rest up a bit. You will want to be available if anyone close to your WH asks for more details.

By portable, do you mean one of those classrooms out back behind the school where it's basically just a trailer? You may want to personally speak to his teacher if you are concerned your WH may do something.

Do not let fear of him rule you. But then...it does not look like you will.

Good. What about an alarm system? At night i even padlock my garage door down in addition to a sliding lock i had a locksmith install onto the garage door, so even if my WS purchases an item that try and open the garage door (similar to a garage door opener) the WS still has extreme difficulty getting in. Something to keep in mind for security.

Between the party and the workweek coming to a close, I'd wait but not long. I'd either expose Fri or early Sat. Don't lose your courage. Be careful not to let the "what if" scenarios discourage you...you have gone down that road before and things only got worse. There is no "good time" to expose, rainy but the trigger does need to get pulled. Living in fear is not the answer.

For me, my children were/are the greatest source of strength for me. When you see your children enjoying themselves at that party tomorrow evening, take a mental snapshot and remember it when you start to feel weak or anxious. Those kids need you to be strong for them. You know this...repeat it often!!!

X2

Here are a couple things you MUST consider adding to the exposure letter:

1. His potential for violence must be exposed - that you have found it necessary to take out a protective order because he has endangered your daughter, and threatened financial and physical harm.

2. Exposure before PO is better because it would not be seen as a "egg him on" when he can't do anything about it. Exposure after PO in place may have unforeseen consequences in your ability to protect, where requesting family and friends intervention before PO in place would be seen as a sincere cry for help.

3. Exposure request for help must include encouraging him to return to his doctor and treatment plan as well as being away from OW. This is an all-encompassing problem that doesn't go away just because she does.

Yes, a trailer out back:) I have talked with his teacher. People who need to know at my children's schools were told last week. No, I have to be done with fear of him ruling me. He's been controlling, manipulating, threatening me for too long. I feel sad that it's come to this, that this is who he's choosing to be. But I feel relieved to be going into Plan B and exposure. Live my life, focus on my kids, and let the affairees deal with some of the garbage they've been building up all this time.

Does that not just look like I'm trying to slander him? He doesn't really have anyone for me to expose to - everyone knows. It's her fb friends that I'm targeting - her "upstanding Christian wife and mother" image that needs to be taken down a notch. I have no one left to ask for help with WH. He doesn't have a lot of friends, honestly. The ones he does have are people who support what he's doing, not people who would help him. I have asked his family and the couple of good, decent friends he has for help. I mostly hear, "I just want him to be happy" or "I've told him I don't support this, but there's not much else that I can do - he's an adult." He has cut off contact with any of our mutual friends.

True, the anger and meds needs to be addressed. The last 12 years of living with me, he was never off his medication for more than a couple of days - the kids and I could tell if he missed even 1 day and would politely remind him to please take it, for the benefit of his family if not for himself. That's the one thing I would still say something to him about - I learned to let most things go. It's all part of the addiction, the "high," the being out of control. When he got some space from her in Nov/Dec, he went back on his medication of his own accord - realized he needed it and took responsibility for it. I do think she is 90% of the problem.

I'm targeting her friends who still see some untarnished image of her, in an effort to damage the affair. That's all I see this as at this point. I'm well past the point of asking anyone I know for help with WH. I guess I could send a letter to his boss, but no idea if that would do anything. Everyone he works with knows. He has pictures of OW up all over, and is completely open about it. I could suggest that he is using company equipment - phone, computer, etc. to carry on an affair. Don't know if that would do anything. He's fairly high up - the head of the entire company carries on an open affair that everyone knows about and has talked about for years - not the highest of morals here. But it is a government agency, so maybe???

RS, I agree finish out your week you have been through an ordeal and you need your strength. More importantly if you fear for your safety and the PO will give you security wait.

You have thought this through weighed up the advice. You have to decide what you consider to be best for you and your children. You need to keep safe and stay sane without additional pressure and worry.

I am not an expert by any means, many posting here have more experience than I, but I can not see this short delay having a negative impact. I think in your case the health and safety of you and your children should be a priority.

You have done amazingly well, you've set the wheels in motion for hopefully a permanent PO. Stay strong and hang in there. You will do fine when you expose. We are all here to support you.

Good idea. I'll look into that.

Does it look bad for me to get the PO and then expose her on fb? For getting a permanent PO, I mean? What's WH gonna say - "My horrible wife got a PO and then slandered the amazing woman I'm committing adultery with, when I couldn't even go after her for it?" ??? "I MUST defend OW's honor!" hahahaha

No, seriously. Can I not just say I've had it with WH and OW running my life? After he chased down my kids, and she talked him into withholding CS, that was it for me? I'm done? Standing up for my kids and myself from now on?

Rainy, I have a friend whose WH took out the Australian equivilent of a PO on OW.

OW did not take a hint and still pursued. My friend, the BW, then exposed on FB to OW's friends, family and contacted the BH.

Your sitch is different in that the A has been going on in front of others for a long time. There are other differences as well.

But my friend felt EMPOWERED by letting OW's friends know she was a living, breathing woman who had been dealt a devestating blow.

There is something about exposing to OW's side that helped my recovery as well. I felt I stood up and cast doubt on her actions to those close to her. I felt and still feel that I showed her actions for what they are, regardless if others want to accept that. She has been labelled a skank, although not in so many words. The seed is sown.

BTW, in my sitch, when I exposed OW (months after the A had been flaunted in front of others), not a whisper from my WH. When I exposed OW's FB bragging about the A to WH's family, which prooved he had lied and cheated and gaslit his family, THEN he started to try to break Plan B.

So much for protecting her "honour". A wayward only tends to care about themselves.

With a PO, you are securing your Plan B. If you choose to expose, expose for your sake, knowing you did the best you could. Don't worry what WH's reaction will be. Just keep yourself and the kids safe.

I agree with KA. And I don't see that your WH will abide by the PO in any case. I think he'll try to push it. Now, I would wait until the party is over, and then I would start exposing, right away.

I also agree that you should be adding the things about your WH to OW's exposure list. There may be some people who would be more willing to speak with OW, if they believe that she is getting herself into an abusive and violent "relationship".

Are you not going to include any of WH's contacts? I think that you should do a proper exposure, of ALL targets all at once.

Expos� the affair, rainy, and stop second guessing every decision. You can't allow yourself to be ruled by fear driven hypotheticals. Expos� tha affair to the OWs Facebook friends. Do you know how to do it? Spacing the PMs 30 seconds apart?

I thought it was 60 seconds apart? Yes, the only thing I still am not sure of is if I can only send 1 message to 1 person at a time, or if I can send a group message to say 10 or 20 people, wait 60 seconds, and send another group message?

I'm not on fb often. I hate it - that's where the A started. I only stay on so my teenagers know I'm watching them.

Last I knew of, WH closed his account, opened a new one that is private, and OW is his only "friend." Kinda telling, huh? I'll see what I can find, though.

You are all correct. Just gonna do it. I 2nd-guess myself and analyze way too much. Time for action.

Rainysweet,

Everything you described about OW, her need to have perfect kids, no doubt a perfect house, a perfectly compliant husband, large numbers of �friends� who fill every niche in her life, indicate a woman who is the perfect target for exposure. She is all external and selfish and the revelation of the truth about her life will devastate her, she might never have another affair.

Your WH will no longer be a romantic figure to her, but will be associated with the worst drubbing she ever received in her life.

God Bless
Gamma

Thank you, Gamma. I think you're absolutely right.

Mailing Plan B letter on the way to work this morning.

Rainy you're doing great, and the harder he comes after you, well the harder he will get knocked back down and the more foolish he will make himself look.

Why?

Because 'The general who makes the most preparations is victorious'

Because YOU are logical, you are preparing for all eventualities, blocking all gaps, safeguarding all weak points. You realise he is so unhinged on a normal day that he has left you nothing left to fear anyway. So youre just getting on with the work and battening down the hatches.

Do you think he prepares? That he is logical? No. He only has the one little tool of fear, rage and unpredicatability and he's already used that too much for you to fear that combination any more.

I agree. We used to be on the safe side with 60 seconds but in actuality I think 30 seconds is safe. I would do it today.

That's good! I agree that you need the Plan B letter to him and expose before he is served with the PO. Why? Because he could easily make the argument at the temporary hearing that you're not abiding by your own PO. Does any of the language say what is expected of you?

WH just texted me that if I sign D today, he will sign an agreement to have CS funds direct deposited into my account, like he's been doing til now.

I am ready to be done, and that would be in the best interest of my children at this point. Especially if I can get him to do it before he is served with PO. A blessing, really.

Why do I feel so sad?

Regarding exposure now, that is going to look very vindictive that I did it the day after we sign the D. Should I put in the message that I finally agreed to the D, but that she is the cause of it? That I am still willing to work on the marriage?

Or not mention it as I was advised before? I guess it won't be final for at least a couple of weeks.

More questions, I know. Guess I'm in a BS fog. Hard to see things clearly.

I am relieved, if I can get this done today. But so, so sad that our marriage and family ended like this. And he wants me to meet him and sign together. I don't want to see him.

I don't get this, RS. Why is your WH using this as a bargaining chip? He has to give you CS regardless of whether you "sign right now". I wouldn't rush to sign without making sure all the I's are dotted and T's are crossed. And in the meantime just stick to your plan.

Has the decree been reviewed by an atty? What about the parenting plan? This isn't how D is done in my state at all... I must be missing something.

This has nothing to do with MB's, but is a great divorce strategy:

Use the "I'm in love with Mrs. Wonderful" attitude of your husband and his desire to divorce quickly to get the best possible settlement. For instance, you could make a deal for more child support, alimony, free and clear title to the house, sole custody, etc. in exchange for your signature now. He is so "in love" and wanting to please his affair partner with a quick divorce that he will give you almost anything for a quick settlement.

Talk to your lawyer about what you could demand, then use it to your advantage

RS I am so happy you got the PO taken care of! I just have a couple things.

No expert on exposure letters, but I would personally think it a little wishy washy for someone to send a letter stating that their spouse is dangerous and she had gotten a PO, but also stating that she was willing to work on the marriage if he came around (which is generally something I have seen in exposure letters on here). I imagine these can both be added but the wording would have to be very delicate or people will not take it seriously. I would suggest putting the letter up here before you send so the vets can help you with the wording.

Regarding FB exposure, I think JapanDude said he did 5 at a time in 60 second intervals. He did a record 600 people.

Also, as far as sending the exposure letter shortly after getting a PO, how can that be used against you. Obviously given his behavior, you wanted to protect yourself before implementing exposure and PB which you knew would set him off. It was a smart move on your part to protect yourself at one of the most volatile moments of your marriage.

I would LOVE for him to say to the courts, look at how she got a PO and THEN did all these things to hurt my A knowing I did not have full access to her for retaliation! Anyone with a brain will look at him after that statement as the abuser he is, not the other way around.

And don't sign anything. He is continuing to try and manipulate you and have control of this situation. Who knows what exposing this A to the OW in her perfect life will do, maybe it could kill this A! Or maybe not, it is pretty entrenched. I would not sign divorce papers though knowing that you are going to level a huge blow to this A just minutes afterwards.

Yes, I first told him no, not ready. Now he says he will give me money to finish the yard for the kids (he was supposed to put it in for them, but OW freaked that he was at my house, so he stopped working on it).

He also said he would leave kids alone, which is best for them at this point. Current separation agreement already says the kids can decide if they want to see him, so if that's converted to a divorce, we should be fine anyway. And I have a PO that fixes that too. Temporarily, at least. He is going to think I planned all this and be sooo mad!

Maybe this is part of the "art of war." Strategic planning. Use his own behavior against him. Or maybe the karma bus is finally coming around:) Still feel sad, though. I wish I could forget who he used to be.

Even given everything I just posted, unwritten? This is a 3.5 year affair - I don't know that it is going to end. Maybe. I do think this is the best D deal I will get, if that is inevitable. I hate moral/emotional dilemmas . . . so not good at making huge monumental decisions like this.

Direct deposit won't stop him from screwing with you financially if he really wants to, RS. If he stops the DD, then it would be the same two month process, wouldn't it?

Just my 2 cents, but I would stick with your plan...exposure/Plan B before you finalize the D.

Maybe. But it's more specific, obvious right away if he doesn't comply, and every 2 weeks instead of monthly - more for him to be in trouble for disregarding.

Lots to think about, I guess. Thanks for the 2 cents:)

No, I really don't think so. Not paying CS or paying it late is the same thing whether he pays it in a check or has it directly deposited.

If direct deposit was some type of protection to making sure you are paid, then I would have heard of that by now, I would think...

The only advantage is that then he knows he has agreed to that, and he is in violation of the agreement if he does not comply. He told me I could "come beg for my money every month." If he does comply and have it direct deposited, I know it's there every 2 weeks, as it has been all this time up until the last 2 checks, and I don't have to communicate with him. Easier to budget, and don't have to talk to him. And slightly harder for OW to control, though she still can, obviously. But if he's legally obligated to do it that way, maybe less likely? I don't know. I want to know I can take care of my kids, and I want him to quit having crap to hold over my head and threaten me with.

Stop letting him use your ignorance as a way to manipulate you.

Get educated on the process and laws regarding Child Support.
He doesn't get to just "pick" when he gives you Child Support.
It is DUE on a CERTAIN day. If he does not comply - you can REQUIRE that it be garnished so it is paid to you on a timely basis.

Stop acting like he's doing you a favor. Child Support is REQUIRED of him. So unless he's paying you double or triple the required amount, he's not doing you any FAVORS by paying it ON TIME.

See? He can still screw with you.

It doesn't matter if he "agreed" to it or not. He has to pay CS one way or another.

My STBX has "agreed" to pay me a percentage of shared expenses and it's in the court order. Guess what? He hasn't paid it in months and owes me A LOT of money. My atty waited several months before filing contempt. It's going to be the same process either way...

When it comes time to signing the agreement, fight for the direct deposit if that's what you really want...but there's no reason to sign papers right now for it. It's not the gift you think it is.

To put it another way:

Waywards are not rational. They are selfish, erratic creatures, I have recently heard the word "insane" applied...which is true! Your WH's behavior has shown you that, right?

If he is threatening to and has ALREADY screwed with you financially regarding the CS, an "agreement" to directly deposit the funds isn't going to stop him, RS.

When are you going to expose?

rainy, when you say sign D papers...

The separation converts to a D and then you have the same waiting period as a D? 90 days? Do you still have to discuss property/debt division? As Susie said, you don't want to rush into signing. If WH is so hot to get division, he should be in a very agreeable state but it is vital that you dot those "i"s before you sign anything.

I would not put any stock into direct deposit. Given WH's behavior, you may want to do garnishment.

Sign nothing without your attorney looking it over and giving you advice.

My attorney drafted the separation order. We just convert it to a D - no changes, except the direct deposit. No division, nothing - it was all already outlined in the separation order. No waiting period, either. Attorney said it will be final in 2-3 weeks.

And he will give me a decent chunk of cash that should be enough to get the yard in for my kids, and a fence so we can finally bring our dogs home from Grandma and Grandpa's (we moved to a new house, he agreed to do yard, and bailed - he owns a landscape construction company).

Is it really likely to get better if I DON'T sign? I still have that to hold over him - that OW is demanding I sign, and I can refuse (until end of Sept - after that he can convert it to a D without my signature, and with no extra money for the yard).

The PO is going to make him go berserk, I'm pretty sure. No matter what I do, he can get ugly. So I guess it comes down to what is the best deal/situation for my kids and me?

Does anyone - vets? - really think this A could end after exposure, after 3.5 years, and it being so completely entrenched? It has consumed his entire life, and largely hers too - she leaves her own kids every other week to galavant around with my WH. Reality might change it, after awhile, if it ever hits them. But that could take months or years - and he can force this through in Sept without my consent, even if he doesn't try to contest it or change anything, like pay me less CS.

Am I better off not being D from him yet when I expose?

I have to wait at least until after my daughter's party tonight. My kids and I could be in a lot of danger if he has not been served with PO yet, so I'm not sure about staying up to expose all night tonight, or if I'm better off waiting til Friday night. I can keep my kids closer over the weekend, and he may get served with PO tomorrow. Also, I think he may be going to see OW this weekend, and I think exposure would be more effective if they are apart. So I wanted to try to find out about that first. Thoughts on that??

I sure hope you are documenting this type of stuff...

Yes, it's in the protective order.

Yes, this is most likely heading to D, but especially since you have been propping up the affair the whole time, it will give you peace of mind to know you did everything possible down the road. And even if this ends in D, you want to put everything into motion to put as much pressure on the affair as possible. The affair & WH's affair fog hurts your children regardless.

At least three "vets" have already given you advice regarding exposure... I don't think anything you have written has changed this advice....

This is my own personal advice...

I would hold off on exposure and get the best D settlement possible if all aspects of the D have been outlined and the D can be final rather quickly. Make sure you get what you want financially as well as the visitation issues, not having OW around your children, etc. addressed...and make sure it is all spelled out VERY VERY clear so you don't have to go back to court to clarify.

You may even have to build in contingencies that trigger in the event WH gets support modified...or ask for a larger lump sum payment...look at where you stand should he do X, Y, Z down the road. I don't know what you have in the way of finances together but I can not emphasize this enough...cut as many financial ties as possible. You mention he is a govt worker...if he has more pension benefits, retirement accounts, etc...you have addressed all that? I would think of all these things before you sign that paper though.

Your WH is far, far gone IMO. You can expose later. So long as OW can't come around your children and children can refuse visitation, the affair will implode/explode at some point...or they will make each other miserable which is fine too.

Rainy STOP letting fear and what ifs rule you.

YOU need exposure. You and the kids need it. It may bust up the A, but its about getting justice and support for you.
Its about not being a victim any more

This woman has so screwed with your life, the English expression is 'She's taking the piss' but I dont know if you understand that!

People need to know how dangerous she is. In the interests of justice, you need to say it - loud and proud. Stop being a victim.

Let the lawyers get you a good deal. That can all be handled later. If he wants a D now, he'll stil want a D later. Appeasing him will do nothing.

Stop worrying about 'negotiating' with WH. Everything he says is a lie and I would stop listening to his promises. Get the lawyers to nail stuff down. WH has legal obligations.

Exposure time is now.

rainy, i'm a teacher too, so i know how busy your day is and that this is tormenting you and pulling you to pieces. you are very, very fortunate to have ML on your thread helping you. please, please stop second and third guessing every move; you are basing your constant change-of-decisions on what WH SAYS and WSs are LIARS! he is playing you like a fiddle with the CS and kids. stop letting him be the leader in this game that is your life! you hold the power - take the offensive!

stick to your plan. do the exposure (your BEST weapon!). don't sign anything. follow MLs advice to the letter. (sorry, i didn't even read to the end of your thread this morning to finish catching up! hope i'm not too late.)

I do not like you signing the papers under these circumstances because I feel like it is him manipulating you and using your fears of his retaliation to control this situation. I never, ever want to see people give in to threats, manipulation and fear.

But, I do see your point about why it is in your best interest to do it.

So I am torn.

I also don't want to see you rush into anything or sign something quickly because of this very chaotic situation, and regret it later. Your life is in a whirlwind right now, seems like a bad time to sign on the dotted line.

Just do it.

If it's really in her best interests and WH is making a genuine offer, it can be done later on.

I dont think it is genuine. I think its merely a carrot made of vomit, tbh.

Most waywards only fulfil their obligations at the point of a legal gun.

I have learned time and time again that ML has seen it all before. Read her advice again. She isnt fazed is she? He's exactly like every other lunatic wayward.

Yes, everything is outlined in the agreement - I am entitled to part of his retirement, etc. OW is not allowed anywhere near my children, cannot have photos of them, etc. They can choose if they want to go with him, and hopefully I will have a permanent PO soon anyway. Thank you for this advice. It seems level-headed to me.

Expose this weekend, if WH and OW are together? Would that not unite them? You don't think wait until she is back home, and they are separated? He is ugliest when she is driving him.

Sorry if ive missed this but has your lawyer ok'd it? Take whatever legal protection you can get - but always run it past the lawyer!

All waywards are united at first. Thats cool - thats what you want.

Yes, my lawyer wrote it all.

Sorry, what do you mean by "fazed?" I will read all of ML's advice again. Thanks.

She isnt worried or freaked by his little toddler antics.

Oh, I thought you meant OW not ML. Got it.

Toddler antics. Sooooo true!

Thanks:)

Picture him as a toddler, all red in the face as much as you can.

It'll help bust up this big bad wolf image he's been trying to perpetrate.

What if I say flat out that WH has gone so far downhill the last 4 months as to become physically violent? We've had 2 confrontations where he hit me. I did not file police reports because they said they would have to go get his side of it, who knew how long it would take me to get a protective order, etc. I thought it would just enrage him more, put me and possibly my children in more danger. Him going after my children is what finally pushed me to the limit (shameful, I know) to get the PO, go into Plan B, stand up.

Still say expose without the PO? Or while OW who pushes him to psychotic rages at me and his kids is here to push his buttons? Or wait til he's been served? Which could be tomorrow, but not guaranteed.

And does that change anyone's thoughts on just getting the D over with? He needs to be on meds, is off them, and OW runs him like nothing I've ever seen - he takes all the rage at everything out on the kids and me, which is why I need Plan B - so do my kids.

I would say so. That should rattle up the OWs circle nicely and people should know about this behaviour. Does her BH know? If so, what a nice concerned husband he is (sarcasm)





I dont think it does much tbh. I think your filing it, and saying you have filed it in exposure is enough to give a strong message to WH and that's all the PO is - a strong message that stays 'stay away'. Your real protection will be in plugging up Plan B gaps. You would have to be strict on home security and evading him any way.



Filing for a D is painful. Id wait till youve been in Plan B awhile to do that.

However if your lawyer tells you to do it to get finacial protection etc, then just do it. Its common for Plan Bers to D for those reasons. It isnt necessarily the end of the marriage.

Thanks, indie.

He has hit you and you didn't file a report?

EVERY time he threatens or touches you OR your children or displays any bit of violence, the police should be called and a report filed. EVERY time. Do you realize that?

I would be pushing hard for supervised visitation if he sees the kids at all...

It doesn't sound to me like there is that much to negotiate over in terms of settling your D, except for his making it seem he is "giving" you extra by agreeing to direct deposit and this promise of extra sum of cash for you backyard, so I am not sure that I understanding this push to sign the papers before he gets pi$$ed off about PO/Plan B etc...

RS did you ever find an IM? Is it someone who is local or an anonymous IM?

I concur with SusieQ. Every time he exhibits dangerous or violent behavior in any way, you need to contact the police. I don't know about Utah, but in our state the police can press charges and do not even need the victim to do so. You just need to get them there to collect your statement/evidence, and then they handle it from there.

Black_raven is her IM.

Great.

Yes! Black Raven on here volunteered to be my IM - bless her.

Rainy, whenever you expose, your WH is gonna be spitting mad. Even if you have a PO, he'll try to break it. Whether WH and OW are together or not when you expose won't matter. They will still communicate, and OW will tell your WH that he needs to get you under control, and he will most likely threaten you with TONNES of things, no more CS, getting full custody of your kids.

You should expose, sooner rather than later.

If you have already hashed out the details for a legal separation, which was done with a lawyer's advice, and can be converted into a divorce decree, then what are you looking for here? Your WH will toss you crumbs to get you to do what he wants, and in the time he wants them.

My suggestion is to expose, get yourself into PB, let the storm rage around you, and when the dust settles, you can decide what you would like to do.

I think she plans to wait until at least after tonight's party for her daughter to do so.

Yes, expose the affair, rainy. Don't wait any longer, don't put it off any more. Hopefully you realize now that your reasons for not calling the police were bad reasons.

I agree again.

Rainy - I would suggest an in-person exposure with your minister. Show him the threat of financial harm. I think he will have a solution that will put some steel in your Plan B. And some teeth in your exposure of OW.

Rainy, how are your exposure plans coming along?

I did this, actually, just this week. He is going to contact OW's minister (this has been done before, but he said he needs to know the extent of things), and also told me not to worry about the "losing your house in 2 months threat." He said if WH really follows through with this threat, the church will help me for the 2 months it takes to haul his butt into court. Huge relief! That would be a last resort, of course, but at least I have a fall-back to help me through if it comes to that.

I think I need to revise exposure letter slightly - he came over again last night, has not been served PO yet. "It's a civil matter." By the time police got there, he left. That is something - he must have figured out I'm standing up. Normally, he would have banged on the door for half an hour.

I need to include that I have a PO on him, that he has turned violent in the exposure letter. I am 99% sure he left to spend weekend with OW. I lean toward leaving the weekend to her freaking out about him showing up without a signed D, letting that be the focus rather than them uniting against me as the common enemy again for exposing. Exposing when he's on his way home, maybe? Or the day after he gets here, so the PO is served on him before he comes after me in a violent rage? That makes it easier to get the permanent PO.

What do you think? I appreciate your vet advice, and taking time to worry about my petty problems. Thank you, ML.

Rainy,

I find your thread so so frustrating to read, Im sorry but I do and that's why I haven't posted yet but really rainy enough is enough. Expos� already.

What's BEST for your kids is to have an intact family unit and for your WH to go back on his meds and sort his life out and become a decent human being again, no ifs buts or maybes. D is irrelevant right now. PO is in place doesent matter when he gets served.

If he is with OW or on mount Everest DOES NOT MATTER all that matters is that you stop over thinking every tiny little step and get on with exposing no more delays. Delaying and failing to take action have landed you in this state.

ML has clearly already advised you to expose NOW. How many times does she have to tell you the same thing???
I'm sorry I know your struggling, I know your kids are struggling but you really need to do something to stop second guessing and therefore freezing up instead of taking action.

Go to your PC sit down with a nice cup of hot drink and start exposing, your exposure letter is good and has been approved by MB, then send plan B letter to your WH ( again this has been vetted by MB so your good to go). That's it, that's what you have to do today.

Tomorrow you can go back to thinking about your WH divorce offer, if he's that desperate to divorce today and offering you a "good deal" there is no reason to think this will change. One step at a time and they aren't all as interlinked or as relevant to each other as you think.

1)expose
2)plan B
3) you can then consider the D offer.

If anyone here disagrees with this please say so if not Rainy your good to go.

Rainy, the exposure letter was already too long so don't change it anymore. Just expose today and be done with it.

Okay. Thanks, all. I did mail the Plan B letter yesterday. I'll get on exposure.

Good girl!

Are you exposing to the OW's contacts on facebook? Who all is on your exposure list?

Sorry I missed the part where you sent the plan B letter, well done.

Exposure will finally show that you are standing up to the vile OW.

Remember Dont respond to any negative replies you get from exposure, any people who condone marriage wrecking skanks behaviour don't deserve an acknowledgement.

ITA with NB28. Exposure will show you who is a real friend of your marriage and who is not. When/if your marriage is patched up you will know who to avoid.

WH's friends and family already know. He has almost no friends on fb - closed his old account when he ended this 2 years go. Re-opened a new one, but anyone who didn't condone what he was doing is no longer on there.

OW's fb list, yes. She has almost 400 people. Her family all knows; most of them quit speaking to her long ago. It's her friends (especially church friends) who live out where she does who I want to get to first - if I can tell the difference. Also, mutual friends of hers and mine from high school - people who are not my closest friends who I haven't told yet, but still friends, who I'm pretty sure will all be horrified and back me up. I'll get to all her contacts if I can, but targeting those people first. She doesn't work, so no issues there.

Everyone my husband works with knows. I could try to cause a ruckus with his boss - higher ups, about him using company computer/phone to carry on an affair. But the head of the entire government agency that he works for has carried on a blatant affair for years that is well-known; always discussed at company events, etc. So no morals there. Don't know if that would do any good. Not sure I want to get him fired as that hits me with CS. Then again, it might get him to pack up and move. What do you think about that?

Thanks. Don't blame you for being frustrated. Appreciate the honesty, and the encouragement. I'm on it:)

fb message question: I have messaged a couple fb people who are not on my friend list. They later told me they never received my messages even though there was a button to message them. How does the message still get blocked?

Really? Yes, that's a good question. I'm not a fb pro. I avoid it whenever I can, honestly.

BR, and Rainy, it gets sent to a different folder marked "other". It is possible that some of these people will miss the exposure messages for a while, if not all together. Doesn't matter though. Send it anyways. Once a few people catch wind of it, they will tell others and then those people will look to see if they have any messages.

I would do all of the exposing that you have left, now. I would even re-expose to certain key people on your WH's side who may have some influence over his decisions. As well as OW. Ask them to use their influence to convince your WH or OW to end their affair.

I know how frightening it can be to expose. It's the right thing to do.

Have you changed your email addresses and phone numbers yet?

Unless you personally have told her family, I would put them at the top of your list and then work downwards in order of priority. I like that you are prioritizing. When you send the PMs, space them out 60 seconds apart so you don't get shut down for flooding. Be sure that every person can see your pictures [put up a bunch of pictures of you, hubby and children] and that they can PM you back to ask questions, make comments.

Did you make a copy of her contacts names and save the names in a WORD doc for safekeeping? Once she gets wind of your exposure, she will shut her page down so make a copy now!

Thanks Scotty. fb keeps changing stuff so I didn't know if it was a default setting and messages got lost/blocked.

All good advice on exposing, thanks. Yes, I have a copy of her contacts saved to word. I have my pictures blocked, but I can unblock them - didn't think about that, except for changing photo to a family photo.

Scotland - no, I haven't changed my email address and phone #. I set up a different email to give to people for fb responses. Would you change those? That's a huge pain with notifying everyone who needs to be able to contact me. Why would you change them? Just to avoid WH? I did think it might be wise to not block him from everything until after I get the permanent PO. I won't respond to anything from him, but that way anything threatening he might send I would have for evidence against him. I will just forward any emails to IM - unopened.

Put a bunch of pics of you, the kids and your husband so folks can look at your pictures.


Rainy, does your husband have a key to your place? I am sorry if I asked that before and you answered. I just want to make sure he can't get in.

No, he cannot get in. No key.

Has anyone heard of weebly.com? Someone suggested I could open a web page there, and send the link in my fb message? Tell people they can go there for proof if they want it?

RS, I posted this on the Exposure 101 thread after I exposed, hope this helps.

I've just exposed affair and wanted to add my words of encouragement. Yes it isn't easy to do, it is counter intuitive you want to protect your WS, family, even yourself. As Dr. Harley, the vets and those more experienced have stated it is the most powerful tool we have in killing the affair.

Yes there are fears that some may not respond the way we wish they would, or we may not think we have enough evidence. But if it makes the WS & OP uncomfortable or interferes with their fantasy you have been successful. It may even plant the seed of doubt in the minds of friends who re think the story they have been told.

It isn't easy to mail that letter, push that button, but once you do and you get into the rhythm of PM on FB its suprising how empowered you feel. We are slowly taking back some control over our lives and hopefully a successful marriage in the future.

Good luck, listen to the vets the will guide, encourage and support you.

Thanks, Happy. I actually read your post on there, and yes it is very encouraging. I need all the support I can get in getting ready to do this, so thank you for sharing:) God bless.

Can you have your IM check your emails for you, and only forward you things you actually need from others?

When you go into PB, it is generally done that you would at minimum, block your WS. In this case, if you want to keep it open to allow him to hang himself on the PO, I wouldn't fault you for that, but you shouldn't be seeing what he is writing. He can get a lot through even in the subject line that can send you reeling. I would be much more comfortable if you allowed your IM to have complete access to your email account, and tell you what she deems important. I trust that she'll know what to send on.

You could do this with your cell phone too. Maybe have a close family friend hang onto it for you.

I worry about your personal safety, and I hope you have taken every precaution that you can. Be careful, and make sure you check in every little bit so we know you're well.

How's the exposing going? We're all pulling for you!!!!

You're doing the right thing.

Rainy, You can do this, you've shown strength getting the PO, I know that wasn't an easy step for you. Speaking from experience you will feel good standing up against the affair and getting the truth out there. You can do this for yourself and your children.

Remember we are all in your corner.

rainy, have you done it? how's it going?

remember, we've all been there. yes, it's excruciatingly hard, but you *will* feel so much better! it's the first step in taking back the control of your life.

hope your year-end party went well and that you and the kids are safe.

Scotland, BH, Happy, Letty, ML, and All -

You raise good points. I cannot turn my cell phone over to anyone - I don't have a home phone, and my kids need to be able to reach me. I do turn it off at night, once my children are all home and accounted for - anyone close who may need to reach me after that, including my oldest son, now knows to call my daughter's phone if they can't get me. If WH continues to contact/harass me after receiving Plan B letter and PO, I will change my # if I decide it's worth the inconvenience.

I think you're right about the emails. I may just leave him unblocked for the weekend - he tends to send a few scathing things whenever he is with OW (pretty sure they're actually from her more than him), and then block him after. I'm going to give it just a bit more thought. Although the last time I finally sent a reply saying, "Does she think I don't know your words from hers after 22 years? Don't send me anymore messages dictated by prostitutes." That shut her up for a bit.

I could have IM check all my emails, but that seems a bit much to ask of her - I get a lot in. Not sure it's necessary. I think I can handle forwarding things - if it gets to me, it's easy to block him.

As you expressed concern for my safety (very kind of you - thank you), I've decided I should probably post my plans for those who have been kind enough to offer advice and be concerned for me:


Pertinent info and THE PLAN:)

Plan B letter was mailed yesterday, with email contact for IM (thanks again, Black Raven:). WH is assumed to be out of town with OW until Sunday night (typical pattern). He should get Plan B letter when he arrives home. After all the hullabaloo with his "desperate to get D signed" offers yesterday, I emailed him, told him papers were at my lawyer's, that if he signed and met conditions he had proposed by 4pm, I would go sign afterward. Told him I was not willing to meet him, did not want to see him or speak with him. I quit responding to phone calls/texts/emails after that. Plan B began at that point for me, even though he had not received the official letter. I am through with contact with him - dark Plan B has been entered.

He did not meet conditions; I did not sign. OW is no longer running my life in any sense of the word, nor is WH - I am back in the driver's seat. WH tried all the usual - sweetness, begging, patheticness, anger, etc (text and voice messages - no response from me - although I guess I did read/listen, which I will not be doing from now on. Anything coming in will be deleted without opening). WH showed up at my house last night. I did not answer the door. Called police to serve him with PO, but he left before they got here (atypical for him to leave before banging on the door for half an hour, so he must realize something has changed).

Exposure letter is ready, new email address set up for fb contacts if they choose to respond, changed profile pic to sweet family photo, OW's contacts are saved in word document, proof of affair is ready to send if requested. I was going to expose tonight. I would love to expose tonight. I am furious, full of anger and contempt for this ridiculous OW - I read back through fb messages she sent me a couple of years ago. Grrr! I want to get this over with. I also respect the advice of the vets on here, and appreciate it greatly.

However, I have given this a great deal of thought. "The general who wins a battle makes many calculations ere the battle is fought." I know I have been wishy-washy, indecisive, and a doormat to the point of frustration for many of you, and to myself. I am now coming from a place of strength, calm and confidence. I'm okay if some of you disagree with me. I have made the decision to expose - you have all convinced me:) It is not a matter of if, but WHEN. I will not chicken out.

WH and OW are not my concern. Myself and my children are. I have thought this through for our benefit. There is a rift between WH and OW - she obviously wanted the D signed before he went to meet her (she's a psycho controlling narcissist, and he was absolutely desperate to comply with her demands). I want to make the most of that. Let them divide themselves this weekend. That gives me a weaker target, a divided target. (I don't mean they are the enemy per se, but the affair has a crack in it). "The opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself."

More importantly, I am genuinely concerned for the physical safety of myself and my children. I expect WH to be served with PO Monday or Tuesday (hopefully Monday). He will very likely come after me after exposure, with or without the PO. It is far more intelligent for me to wait until after he has been served. If he comes after me before, my only recourse is to call police - he may run before they arrive. Best case scenario for me - they get here while he is still here, serve him with PO, and slap his hand. If he comes here AFTER he has been served - even if he contacts me at that point, is aggressive, or threatens - he can be arrested. Much bigger deal. And a mug shot of him sent to OW BH would certainly help his custody case, which makes him more likely to be willing to dump her. Ugly stains on the frou-frou and glitter affair fantasy picture.

Even better, I will be able to go to the hearing for the permanent PO and document that he was so aggressive as to violate the PO during the temporary period, almost guaranteeing that the permanent one will be granted, regardless of any argument from him. And really, what will he say? I can't remember who posted it earlier (thank you!), but if he seriously goes to court to whine that I exposed his A after obtaining a PO so he couldn't physically assault me over it and how unfair it is, surely the judge would have to see him as the scumball he is in his wayward state - how could that possibly work against me?

And in the day or 2 before PO is served, if he happens to follow through on a better D deal out of desperation to appease OW, so much the better. Makes no difference to me, either way. You are all correct that I have a legal separation, a binding court document, and he will be made to pay CS one way or another. As soon as he has been served with PO, I will expose. I'm ready to go any day. That is far better for me and my children, and as a side benefit, it'll be when he's almost 2 whole weeks away from his next scheduled adulterous escapade with OW. Yes, she will still be all over it, but she doesn't have quite the power for control as she would if he's with her. He's on robot mode when she is - no one home and the controls are completely in her hands. So this at least puts a damper on that. Another side benefit is that she will be right in the middle of the storm as it's raging, without him there to "defend her honor." (Chuckle).

So know that I am okay. I am prepared and ready to go, I've done what I can for the moment. I am going to enjoy my children over the weekend, relax, finish reading "Art of War." I will post when I have confirmed that PO has been delivered, and let you all know when I will be exposing, so you can be sending happy thoughts and prayers my way.

Thank you all. Hope you all have a good weekend as well, with some happiness and love in there wherever you may find it. Hugs and prayers all around:)

Rainy