I've been married for 21 years, since I was 19. I'm now 41 and he's 44. I found out after we were married he cheated with his ex who he had a son with. She got pregnant and had a daughter by him. We have 4 kids. When we were married 2 years. I found out the had a one night stand. Found piece of condom wrapper in my car. 2 weeks away from giving birth to our second daughter. We worked it out. Swore he'd never do it again. A year later found out he had a six month affair with that one night stand. He got her pregnant and she has a daughter. He swore he messed up and swore to God he'd never do it again. He gave up his rights to that child in 2000 at the moms request. She didn't want him around because it was an affair and she remarried and her new husband wanted to adopt her. We had quite a few years with no cheating. I thought we had over came it. The.ast year has been a year from hell. To make it short. He went out of the country for 3 months to visit his dying father. I went to visit for 13 days. He came back home 3 weeks later. He confessed that after I left he had an affair with his half sister over there that he met for the first time after I left. She didn't like me when I was there and I could tell she liked him. I even told him that if she wasn't his sister she would be all over him. Never thinking he'd comig incest. Then he admitted to having sex with prostitutes. He even got arrested for it and I didn't know. He didn't serve any time because he had. I record. He wanted a divorce and was leaving me for his sister. Our kids were devastated and heartbroken. They wanted nothing to do with him if he was going to be with her. I filed for divorcee right away. Not too long before court he started texting me and started to want to get back together. Regretting what he did and remorseful. I'm having a hard time. I've been trying to work things out but I can't get over what he's done. Infant stand to be intimate. I feel like I dot value or respect myself at all. Can this marriage even work out? So much has been done I don't know if it can be saved or if I really deep down want it to. I'm scared of being alone. To do everything on my own. I feel overwhelmed. Any advice inwould appreciate it. I feel so alone.

I would drop him like a hot rock. Your husband is a serial cheater.

Read here: When to Call it Quits

My God, woman, your husband is going to give you some crotch-rotting disease.

I'm usually all about trying to fix the marriage (see, I was the one who had an affair), but you've gotta know when to close the store & respect yourself enough to insist on better. Forty-one is still young. Don't waste any more of your life on this guy, because he doesn't love you.

I know. That is what's scary. Thank God I've tested clean for everything.

I would go into Plan B while you file for D. If he was to get into a program for Sexual addiction and you see progress maybe you would remarry. Dr. Harley says with addictions you need to separate.

Please prepare for Plan B.
How To Plan B properly
Plan B letter samples

Also these.
IM training school
Parallel Parenting

Run

away

NOW!

LG

I know its probably best you end it. But I have a question for those you have overcome the affair. How do you get over it or deal with it? How can you fall back in love with someone who has hurt you so much. I keep picturing them together. When we are intimate I cry afterwards because I can see him doing what he does to me to her. I get no sexual satisfaction at all. I try to shut down as its happening and can't wait for it to be done

Dr. Harley has a way IF it's followed.

Your WH would have to get help and stop his IB and second secret lives, complete transparency, work POJA and live by PORH.
Exposure 101

Read this. How To Survive Infidelity

He is an open book. He tell me where he is all the time. To be honest he has been treating me amazing. If he would have treated me like this from the begining things would be great. I just can't grt what he did out of my head. So many times he's cheated. I know he's sorry for what he did but prostitutes? Your half sister? Really? It makes me sick to think of it. I just can't seem to grt over it and it's been a year since everything came out. To me he has always been selfish. Putting his own needs first not matter who it hurt. I raised 4 amazing kids. I went back to college and got my RN to help us out financially because he has no education.

Frenchie, has his adulterous behavior been exposed? Both sets of parents need to know, as well as your kids.

My kids know. His family know and do does mine. His dads know but it's because he's dyIng of cancer. They're afraid it will kill him even faster. It's his daughter.

Not all his friends know and the ones who do only know he cheated and don't know the details of who. I wish they did

Isn't incest illegal where your from?

One thing I've heard Dr. Harley say about abusive men is that the men he sees make the most progress is the men who have to do some jail time because of their abuse. If people do not have consequences from their wrong how will they learn?

What consequence has he had to deal with?

It sounds like you're financially able to go into Plan B? Are you going to?

It's illegal in the US. This happend in Nicaragua. It's illegal there but no one know about it there but a few I'm told. Dont know for sure. I don't feel he's had any consequences but movIng out of the house for a while. Maybe a little embarrassment but that's about it

I'm thinking about plan B. I'm scared to be alone. Never been alone. I have four kids (14,16,19 and 20) who've been through hell because of what he's done.

He's a sex addict, clearly. Especially if you are providing financially, you would be okay without him. I got married when I was 19 too, it's been 22 years. I'm in Plan B and D. You can do it. You need to get away from him and let him crash and burn. Your kids need to get away from him.

If he gets help for his addiction - seriously does something to get into recovery, and becomes willing to work on the marriage as well, you can think about things then.

You've always been alone, sweetie. Believe me, I know. Sad and awful, but true.

Being alone without that lead weight dragging you down too will start to feel better once you get used to it, and begin to believe that you deserve better. Best thing I've done for my children in a long time. Your kids will be relieved too.

Agree. You will also be setting an example for your help when you show them you will no longer take his abuse. You have sons. Do you want them thinking it's ok to do this to women? Or your daughters that it's to have the bar set so low for them.

We will help you through this.

Also email Dr. Harley Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Please prepare for plan B and protect you and your kids. He needs help.

I know I have to. I've tips WH that I feel that I'm a bad example for our 3 daughters. I've told my daughters that. I told them I don't want them to feel that's how they are to be treated. They say they know but it's ok. I know it's because it's their dad and they want us together no matter what. When we did separate he was such an a$$. He would put the kids in the middle. I did file for divorce in July 2011. I had it postponed and in April 2012 he talked me into canceling it which I shouldnt. I'm in the process of restoring it to docket right now. He is aware of it. I'm just waiting for court date. He has also financially screwed me. He took insurance money that I got to fix our front port from thr bad winter snow we had and used it to go to Nicaragua. Promissed he would repay it when he got back. He had gotten fired from his job and was taking out his 401k money. Bad mistake I told him but he still wanted to do it. He said he would fix porch and barn roof that has a huge hole in it. He spent all the money. He spent alot of it on his half sister he had the affair with. He would send her money in Nicaragua. He bought her an iPhone for 400$ and sent it to her. He never knew what a pandora bracelet was till me and my daughter. That's something specially we do for us and he goes and buys her one half way full. I was so pissed and hurt. His cell phone bill to Nicaragua was between 1200-1400 a month just calling her everyday. He only wanted to pay my 200 a week for 4 kids and he was spending money like that foolishly. The only thing he did for the kids was buy my older 2 mattress that they really needed. He would take them to breakfast or to the movies on the weekend. He said he used that money on them too but he was working a full time job so I don't see it that way. My porch still remains unfixed and my barn roof still has a hole. Now I have the town after me to fix it and fining me because I haven't gotten it fixed. I can't afford it. I make good money but when I have to pay mortgage and car payment on my own it's hard. While he is still here I'm taking advantage of it by paying all the bills we are late on and making sure when he does leave I'm caught up on everything.

When we went to mediation in court I was getting screwed royally I belt. By their guidelines I was getting only 137$ a week from him which is nothing. That's for 2 kids. That is crazy. I have 4 at home. The older 2 are in college and still need to be supported. I'm an RN but I've only been working for almost 2 years. I just graduated myself in 2010. I got my degree to prepare myself because I knew one day I'd end up alone and having to support 4 kids.

Sounds like you are getting things in order, thinking clearly, and preparing yourself. Way to go:)

Sucks because Really need a lawyer and I can't afford it. Court says I make too much money. Don't know if I should let the judge decide or how that works if we don't have lawyers and can't agree. Anyone know?

Read this from one or our board lawyers.

Also read this. You can do it on your own but get all your documentation together.

Did you read all the Plans B links I posted? Do you have an IM? Have you written your Plan B letter?
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

Can you get him removed from your house?

I almost never say this, but I recommend D'ing him asap and not looking back. His issues are way bigger than what you and your kids needs to deal with. The serial cheating and prostitutes are bad enough, but incest should be a dealbreaker.

If you have even a smidge of a thought of perhaps taking him back in the future, here is what I would do.

1. Go to an immediate, pitch-black Plan B for 2 solid years.
2. During those two years, get individual counseling from either one of the Harleys, or at least someone who is familiar with the MB concepts.
3. Through your intermediary, give your WH a list of what it would take before you consider having direct contact with him AT ALL EVER once the 2 years are up. This should be a long list, (we can help you with it), including serious therapy for his sex addiction and INCEST issues, accountability to several trusted male friends or family members, and much more. All in addition to the standard NC letter and precautions for ordinary adulterers.
4. After two years, think carefully what is best for you and the children at that point, and choose accordingly.

Chances are his ship is going down, and fast. Get in the lifeboat, row a distance away from the ship, and hang out there long enough to heal. You'll need to see some pretty impressive documentation that the ship is seaworthy before ever considering re-boarding the RMS Titanic.

Neak has good advice.

Incest is a boundary beyond a boundary out yonder, far from a safe marriage.

I totally agree. It hard when you've been with someone so long. Afraid that I'll be alone forever. I know I definetly need to be alone for some time and get help from all the damage he has done to me. My fear is I wil be alone. I do want that happy relationship and marriage that I've always wanted and never got.

Is this REALLY your fear? I suspect your fear is that you will be destitute, or poverty-stricken. Get a lawyer. Your WH has a financial responsibility to you.

What is your fear, REALLY?

Frenchie, I hate like hell what you are having to deal with, but you really need to put to rest the thought you may be alone the rest of your life. There are plenty of men out there, myself included, that would love nothing more than to assume the responsibility of a family. Don't judge us all because of the actions of one. We really aren't all cut from the same cloth.

Some of us actually have morals and dignity. LOL, as hard as that is to believe right now, it really is true.

Protect yourself, and worry about the rest later. You're in my prayers.

I'm not trying to defend what your husband did. I'm not suggesting that you stay with him, or try to help him work through his issues. The reason I'm posting this link is to help you understand that sexual attraction between adult siblings who do not meet until they're adults is not that uncommon. This is not some rare, unheard-of thing. It is pretty much ALWAYS a risk when adult siblings meet for the first time. Not everyone will succumb, obviously; but the danger is there.

Genetic sexual attraction has been reported by a high number of people who reunite after being separated when they were young. GSA provokes an immensity of yearning to unite and secure the bond that has been missed and now seems impossible to live without. The sheer surprise of meeting a family member who resembles our genetic makeup and then to experience feelings of sexual attraction; it easily overwhelms an individual's ability to cope.

Genetic sexual attraction

GSA

I get and understand that because they didn't grow up together. But he being the one married and 20 years older than her should have known better in my opion. Even he says he should have known better. He cheated before and he knew how much it hurt me. He said for me to trust him. To give him my heart and he would protect it. I did and be messed up again. Now he says the same thing but I don't believe it however sincere he truly may be.

Hopefully God bring a man like that into my life one day. I just need to remember. His will not mine.

I agree, and screwing around with your sister has an "oogy" factor that "normal" affairs don't, IMO. But it's the repetitive cheating that's really the problem, not his choice of sexual partners...and that's the reason why ditching his sorry donkey is probably the best choice for you and your family.

tl

So when will you go into Plan B as you're implementing Plan D?

Can you get him out of the house ASAP?

Funny thing is , he's supose to be a Christian man. We use to go to a Pentecostal church. Even my pastor told me that I have biblical grounds for divorce. They say my husband always picked and chose what he wanted to believe from the bible.

Soon. I'm waiting a bit just to pay some things off. Withing the next month for sure. Waiting for my next court date

When is your next court date?

Will you be able to get him removed?

I would make sure when you go D I would go completely dark from him. Everytime you have some kind of contact it will take you back to square one and it will hinder your self recovery.

I'm waiting for court date to be assigned. I filed to have case restored to docket and he knows that. Im hoping it's this month. I'll go to the court on Monday and check it out. I dont have anyone to be moderator so I have to come up with somethin else. He stocks me now. He's if my car is at work. Goes through my car. Even shows up at my best friends house. Goes through my drawers and everything. Crazy

Do you feel unsafe with him?

Yes and no. He's threatened to kill be atleast 3 times before. The 4th time he even threatened to put a bullet in my head right infront of 3 of my kids. Our son who was 15 at the time got so upset and told him to leave crying telling him to never threaten his mother.

Can you get a RO?

IMO, that information should make you less likely to trust him again, not more likely.

It can give you understanding, and hopefully to ease your way if you have any perfectly normal feelings of inadequacy. What it will never do is excuse him in any way, shape, or form. OF COURSE he should have known better. OF COURSE he did know better. OF COURSE he should (and could) have walked away the moment he felt anything inappropriate.

Because he didn't walk away, he destroyed his family. It would require serious intervention from God and a number of people who are not you, before there was any chance at all that he would be a fit spouse for you. He would have to become a whole new person, and live a whole new life, that didn't leave open any possibility for prostitutes, sisters, or anybody else.

Wow, missed a whole page that included stalking and threats of murder in front of your children.

DO NOT WAIT for your court date.
DO NOT WAIT until you pay off some irrelevant bill.

Pick up your purse, take your children, and go RIGHT NOW THIS VERY MINUTE to a shelter. Once you are there, file a report asap on the stalking, and most importantly on the threat he made in front of your child, to shoot you in the head while the kids watched.

You aren't to blame for WH making the threat, but it will be ALL YOUR FAULT if you let those kids remain even one second longer in an environment that is that clearly unsafe.

ITA

I also agree.

As someone whose best friend since high school (more than 3 decades) and an older sister (now D) both experienced domestic violence in their marriages, I completely agree with this. Please listen to what everyone is telling you. You need to be far away from a man who would threaten such things in front of his children!

If you love your children, get away from him as soon as you can. If you don't leave, the damage to your children will be more than you can even imagine. Sorry to be so blunt but, been there-seen the aftermath-it isn't pretty....

Leave now, Frenchie. Leave. Take the kids and leave. Is there someone who will take you in?

If he has threatened to leave you and is now stalking you, you need more help than we can give you online.

Leave now. File a restraining order against him on behalf of you and your children.

I am worried about you.

I'm not worried about him doing anything to be at this point. He doesn't know what I'm planning really. The only thing he knows is that I've filed to have it restored to docket. He thanked me for. Wong honest to him so he wouldn't be surprised by it. He acts like nothing at all. Once I know the details of when the hearing is I'll know more what to do. When he threatened my I did call the cops. They came and documented it. I didn't file a restraining order at the time but told him that I would if he continued.

I do have a question though about him Visiting the kids. He will be living eith his sister. Since he doesn't have his own place and my kids don't feel comfortable going to her house to see him. We weren't going to have set days or schedule but I'm thinking that's not good because when we was out of the house he would come when he wanted and only for a few hours. He says he wasn't babysitting so I could go out. I was only spending time at my moms and sister so I could get out instead of being home alone waiting for whenever he felt he wanted to drop them off. How you guys work visitations? Any recommendations?

Are you documenting everything?

How old are the kids?

Just want to seperate part of that paragraph to point something out to you. (similar things were said and done in my VERY similar stitch).

Visitation is that, visitation. DO NOT LEAVE IT OPEN FOR NEGOTIATION. He will come and go as he pleases if left open.

The "babysitting" comment was said to me as well. It is not babysitting, it is called parenting. Big difference. What you do during his visitation time is none of his business.

Protect yourself and you children.

Why are you mulling over visitation possibilities instead of getting out of there immediately, and filing a RO so there will be no visitation? Or at the very least, court-supervised.

You are not acting in the best interests of your children. Until you do, you are a danger to them. Stand up and protect them!

Please listen to what Dr. Harley says when there's physical violence. He says to seperate until the abuser is in a program and has been helped.

Radio Clip on Physical Abuse
Segment #2

Segment #3

Your situation sounds a lot like mine, Frenchie. Get out. You can do this. Get a protective order for you AND the kids - he shouldn't be around them. Forget visitation and everything about him. Just get away from him. He's not getting any better with you sticking around. Take care of you and your kids. Give them a parent to look up to.

You should read rainy's story because your stories are parallel and you will see how strong rainy as become following the MB plans.

Rainysweet's Story

My girls are 14, 19 & 20. And my son is 16. I do have everything documented

I'm afraid I won't be able to financially do it on my own and lose everything.

He told me one day crying that I would never find anyone who loves me like him. That no one would live me like he does. I told him I hope I never find anyone like him ever again.

Do you have a lawyer?

Did you listen to the radio clips that I posted?

Frenchie, are you a member of a local church ? I know our church offers financial assistance in cases like this, and works with the county local resource center. Last year they provided 39 fully furnished apartments, and helped find work. Please don't give up !!! Our church helps those in need even if they are not members.

Do not have a lawyer because I can't afford one. I have not listened to the clips but I will to tonight. I work evening and do does be so he's always around. On vacation this week so Ill be able to.

Did you see this Frenchie?

Also this is from a lawyer whom is also a board member.

Every excuse you bring up why it won't work for you to LEAVE WITH THE KIDS, yes the grown ones too if they're willing, but at least the ones under 18, is just that. An excuse.

You haven't mentioned a single thing yet that is more important than your own life or that of your kids.

Not one.

My church know what I'm going through. We don't attend regularly so I don't feel comfortable asking them for anything. I've tried look for pro bono lawyers but no luck. I do make good money and too much for them to take me bass on my income. They don't look at your expenses. I'm still looking. Even if a good lawyer could do a reasonable payment arrangement but none was to. The all want like a 2000$ retainer which I don't have

My WH will leave. This is my house not his. He has no rights to it. He wouldn't fight me for it. I just called the court to see what my court date is to have it restored to docket and it's scheduled for June 26. Things are moving forward. He threatened me before yes. He has never been physically violent. Just mentally abusive with his actions of infidelity. He did hit me once 19 years ago. He punches me on my thigh because my now 20 year old was crying. She was my first and very spoilled. She wouldn't fall asleep unless you held her to sleep. I was trying to get her use to falling asleep on her own. Took three days to get her out of the habit but the first night WH got upset and punched me on my thigh and left a bruise. Told him that he better make sure that is the first and last time he EVER lays a hand on me. He never did again. Maybe it sound like excuses but I'm really not. I'm more afraid of what he will do when we are NOT together than what he does while we still are. That is more scary to me

Her kids are 14 16 19 and 20.
You do not need to be present during his time with them.
And you do not need to facilitate him being their father.
Its up to HIM to arrange time with them.

Please get this filed before he spends ALL of his retirement account. You are entitled to half of these assets -- don't let him drain those accounts paying for his affairs. Get your money to fix your barn and your porch.

When he wasn't living here he would come and see the kids when I was at work. He would go through the house and the kids didn't stop him from going through my things. When he would make plans to spend time with the kids he would not set times. I would go out and spent time with my mom and sister and I would have to come home to take them here and there because he wouldn't do it. He said he wasn't going to babysit or drive the kids around so I could go out even it I was just with family.

My kids are #1. They are my main concern. If it wasn't for them I would have ended this marriage a long time ago.

If your kids were your number 1 concern you would have left him by now. You need to take care of them! Who will protect them from your H if you don't?

He has threatened to kill.

Do you know what will happen if he follows through on that? He won't go after you--he seems to enjoy hurting you--he will go after your kids.

Please, for their sakes--end this now.

That's whiny crap that waywards say. Ignore it. Frenchie, if you feel unsafe you need to ACT, not REact.

Lawyer-up, friend. You'd be surprised. You will not be left destitute.

Then you can afford the initial fees that an attorney will charge. Have you looked into this? The initial consultation is usually FREE.

Don't throw up your hands because the process sounds hard. Steel yourself to do whatever it takes to protect the interests of yourself and your children. You all deserve it.

I have. they want a retainer of 1500.00 which I don't have or can just save up. I am trying to

Keep looking. You should be able to talk to an attorney for free.

I did meet with one in July for free but she wasn't willing to work out a payment arrangement for me at all. so frustrating!

But what did she TELL you? Where else have you gone? I work frequently with attorneys, and they always offer a free consultation. When we were threatened by OM in my sitch, we met with an attorney who never charged us for our consultation.

Have you pursued legal help?

I just went for that one consultation. She told me that I needed to file quick before he spends a 401k check he was getting. I filed right away myself. Never met with her again because I didn't have the money. He still spent it foolishly and when I went to court the mediator didn't do anything. He wasn't goig to have to pay any of it to me. Not fair at all. I've been searching online to night for some free legal aid and have found nothing. Can't find any pro bono lawyers either.

if you make good money, you will not get a pro-bono lawyer. it's time to break out a new visa card, because sorting this is more important than anything else going on right now. and your WH will surely be surprised when he's told he has to pay you 50% of his 401K! this is why you need competent legal advice. he acts like he has the freedom to spend your money. he doesn't. you need to get a leash on that right now. protect yourself and your children. he still has to pony up the dough, and the court is how you get him to.

even here, in nz, where NOTHING is free (for instance, if you need a tradesman, you will even pay his gas to get to your house), i saw my own lawyer AND the divorce lawyer he recommended free of charge for consultations. whatever you spend now will save you in the long run.

frenchie, we have all been where you are. afraid to rock the boat, because he might leave. afraid to get legal advice, because that might mean a divorce. afraid to do ANYTHING, because that makes it, in all its terrible awfulness, "real." but frenchie, your WH is going to do whatever he wants, and you can't stop that. you can only control yourself, and protect yourself and your kids. you need to stop swallow the fear and get going on a *plan* to do this. put yourself in the driver's seat. it makes the fear go away.

Letty's right, Frenchie. The fear lessens as you feel it and move right through it anyway. Kind of like heading into thick black fog. It starts to thin out once you get going. Sure beats standing there on the edge, in the dark, terrified of what's in there and never getting to the other side.

Get moving! Baby steps are okay as long as you're moving.

WH an I were talking today. Got into an arguement on how he's giving me everything I want and being the man I want but that I'm not giving anything in return. He does't get that what he did now terrible it was and the effect it has on me. He expect things to be normal, well I can't act normal like nothing has happened. I told him he needs to go to counseling and get himself straightened out because no one cheats on his wife, has sex with prostitutes and has sex with his half-sister and is normal.

Even when we were going to marriage counseling the counselor told him he needed to get some individual counseling, that he has a problem. He is so sure that he has no problem and the only problem is that I don't have sex enough with him. why would I want to have sex with him when he's hurt me so bad??? that's not inviting to me.

He told me to make him an appointment and he will go. Why do I have to do that. Why can't he take the initiative and do it??? If he cared enough he would. I told him I feel we are always going to be where we are right now because he doesn't want to get help. what is it going to take for him to see that? So frustrated with him.

Your WH is trying to blame you and that's typical from a wayward. He's following the wayward script. The Harleys will say "there may be reasons for an affair but never excuses".

Do not engage in his fights. How is the lawyer coming along?

Please read Craziest things to come out of a wayward's piehole
Never take the word of a Wayward

I haven't called any today. He was around. I think I'll be able to make some tomorrow.

Can you do any Plan B preparation? The letter? Line up an IM? How much longer until he leaves?

Do not engage in his fights.

Is there an easy way to read the plans? I can't seem to find them.

Frenchie, posters have been linking the important articles to you since you began posting. Have you not read them?

Yes I did. I went back and re-read them. Just though there was a place on this site that had everything in one place. Maybe things I missed. I've filled for divorce in July last year. Next court date to have it restored to docket in the 26th. I had withdrew it because he wanted it, I took a chance I regret taking. I should have never withdrawn it. I'll see what happens on the court date. Right now. I'm getting my ducks in a row

Frenchie, the information you need is on this site, but you have to make the effort to educate yourself by seeking out the articles here and reading them. I am concerned that you appear to have no knowledge of the articles here, when so many have been linked to you. They are also linkied throughout this site.

Have you read any of the articles that have been linked to you in the responses on your thread?

Agree with MaritalBliss. Frenchie what exactly are you looking for that you didn't find in the links that were already posted? Is it about D information?

I'm looking at the info from my cellphone so I guess it's not as easy as it would be from a computer

Oh that makes sense.

Tell me what you need and I will link it here so you can open them up.

Start here and read all the links How To Survive an Affair

I would concentrate on the Plan B information I posted to you. Do you need me to post them again?

No I have plan B. thanks

When is your appointment with a lawyer?

I wanted to give you some links of what Dr. Harley says about telling the children.

Infidelity:The Lessons children learn
Exposure 101

Found a radio clip from Dr. Harley telling children even as young as 4.
The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair

Some more on telling the children.

This from Dr. Harley himself.

frenchie, what is going on with you? is your WH still at home? have you found a lawyer? have you told your kids? are you able to use a computer rather than your phone? do you have access?

please advise where you are in the process.

My kids do know and have known since everything came our last year. My kids are range from 14-20 years old. My next court date is next Tuesday to have it restored to docket. I can't afford a lawyer and make to much to get once court appointed or probono so I'm going to have to go through mediation. If we can't agree then the judge will have to make the final call on those issues I guess. Any decent judge wouldn't let him get away with what he is trying to get away with.

I have to agree with the tough call in what you posted. I don't believe in lying to your children. How many of you tell your kids there is a Santa clause? Easter bunny? Tooth fairy? Is that not lying? I've never had my kids believe in any of that. I just think caution needs to be taken with children. Everythig that happens to them wether positive or negative hanges who they are. That what I'm saying.

So are you disagreeing with Dr. Harley's advice on telling the children? Comparing Santa Clause to Infidelity?

Yet you were advocating lying to them about adultery. If you don't "lie" to them about Santa, why would you advocate lying about infidelity?

And I think folks can discern the difference between a white lie and a black lie. Teaching kids about Santa does not harm them. Lying to them about infidelity does. I can tell you from first hand experience that, as an adult, I RESENT my mother lying to me about my father's infidelity because it confused and upset me. On the other hand, I CHERISH her for telling me about SAnta because it brought so much joy and fun to my childhood.

Frenchie, your children aren't really children anymore. 14-20. They have well-developed minds, they are aware of sexuality, some of them are legal age of marriage and old enough to be parents themselves.

But what I am trying to get at, is that they are not fools. They are not waiting up all night to spot the Tooth Fairy, those years are far behind you. Ask any of us here who grew up in a home with a parent lying to "protect" us from the truth - many of us will all tell you the same thing. We knew, to some degree. When we found out the truth later (and it's often others who tell them, not the 'protector'), it is really insulting. My first thought was "uh yeah, I'm not an idiot but thanks for thinking of me as one".

*Edit, I see Melody Lane beat me to it.

In our family, we tell children the truth about Santa Claus, and treat him like any other fictional character: we enjoy the stories, but they are just stories.

I think I actually heard a radio broadcast where Dr. Harley said they did similarly with their children, but I might be confabulating it.

ok well I'd like to change the subject.

today my WH told me that yesterday while I was at work her called to talk to his dad and his half sister he had to affair with answered the phone. He talked to her less than 2 minutes so he says. My daughters were there and they heard him talk and they said it wasn't long at all. He was speaking spanish and our kids are not fluent so they don't know exactly what they said. Anyway I am so pissed off right now at him. We had an understanding that he wouldn't call unless I was home. when I reminded him of it he said that I'm always at work when he can call which is BS! I was just on vacation for 10 days and he didn't call then. My first day back and he calls. Mind you he never really called his dad before. I.m livid. Can't trust him at all. I told him he will never change. He does what he wants when he wants and doesn't care. He is the one who said he wouldn't call unless I was home and he still did! So sick of this. I know I'm just putting things off and prolonging things but I know I have to move on no matter how much it hurts. I told him I was done and not to forget about court on Tuesday!!!!

He's a wayward and is addicted to her. He is very toxic.

Have your kids said anything to him about his affair?

So when you go to court next Tuesday will he be moving out?

Will you go to Plan B as you're in D?

They've expressed their feelings to him when everything came out. I'm not sure when he's moving out. We haven't gotten that far in talking. I'm trying to set up plan B. Don't have an IM so don't know how that is going to work.

Do you have a friend who can stay neutral? She just needs to act as a filter.
Have them read this.
IM Training School

If you still can't find one you can ask someone on the MB board.

I don't really have any friends. Me having friends wasn't allowed. The only one friend that I really do have has her own issues and I don't want to burden her with mine

Your kids are old enough that an IM would have a very light work load. You need to go dark right away. Your WH isn't remotely serious about saving your M. He won't be until he's spent a long time at rock bottom.

Going dark isn't just good for you...it's the one and only way you have a small chance to help him.

Reading what I've been through anyone think it could really work out? How to I change my feelings to love him? When I think I'm making the wrong choice to divorce he says something and gets me thinking. Part if me doesn't want it over. So cOnfused!

Do you not think incest is a deal breaker?

I would be disgusted by the incest and would cut and run in a heartbeat. That's a personal deal-breaker for me. However, according to MB, you can recover this. If he is on board with recovery, yes, you can recover your marriage. Is he willing to do the work?

Here are some clips on incest. Tell us what you think.
Radio clip on incest
Another clip on incest

A good, long Plan B will be just what you need to give you the clarity to make your choice.

Listening to the babblings of a mind-scrambled wayward will only confuse you.

I'm at work right. So I'll listen to those as soon as I can. Incest is a deal breaker and it's true he just tries to wheel me in with his words. He is willing to do the work but I'm not sure I physically or emotionally can. But then again be really isn't if he doesn't get help. He feels he doesn't need help

Doesn't he have a trip planned to go back to where his half sister lives?

When do you go to court again?

I'm at work right now. I'll listen to them as soon as I can. Thanks

No he doesn't. Only when his dad does pass away he says. The agreement was that he would go only if we both could go but knowing him he would go anyway. Plus. I don't want to see the bit-ch any way!

Court is Tuesday

He's not serious. Don't waste any more time with him until/unless you can see actual results from his actions, consistently over a long period of time. Maybe not even then, but FOR SURE not now.

He's just biding his time till this all blows over. (So he hopes.)

I feell like it sometimes. Sometimes I think because I was a stay at home
Mom for so long and now I'm an RN and have finally been working for the last 2 years now he wants to benefit

You might be right. But when it boils down to it, it doesn't matter why he's doing (or not doing) anything. What he's doing (or not doing) is what counts.

His inactions have told you everything you need to know at this point.

I have court tomorrow. He might not be able to go. Anyone think they will restore to docket without him being there?

It will probably postpone. I'd be reeeeeeeeeal surprised if he shows up. He doesn't have much motivation to lose you. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't seem to have much motivation to keep you, either. Not surprising for a serial cheater who stooped to incest.

Sorry that this may drag it out longer. Be persistent. Get him out of your house so you can keep your sanity. Once he's out, go to Plan B and only see him on court dates.

I'm hoping that he doesn't have to be there to restore it to the docket. It won't be the actual divorce date. I have the text from him saying he knows about it and that he might not be able to go. I guess I'll have to wait to see. If anything I'll serve him again if I have to

Good luck tomorrow and stay strong.

Thanks. I will.

Oh and I don't know about CT but in some states even if the other person doesn't show up they can still restore the docket.

The case has been restored to docket. Im feeling a mix of emotions. This doesnt seem real. I don't know what to feel. Part of me wants it over and another part of me doesn't. Want to fix what is broken but it seems impossible. I feel like my whole world is crumbling down around me. A big part of my life is going to be over. Nothing will be the same.

Nothing will be the same, but how do you know it won't be better?

When you get into Plan B you will heal.

Put together a plan and work it. There will be pain, but if you continue to work the plan you will be a better person.

MB may not be able to save your M, but it will save you if you work it.

So what can you do to start preparing for Plan B? IM?

What self care can you do now for yourself?

What are you grateful for today? 3 things off the top of your head.

My kids,my health and my job

You are blessed!

What self care can you do for yourself today?

I don't know. I'm just so confused. Part of me know I'll always get what I got and it's just a matter of time. The other part thinks what if he changed. I just don't know if after everything I can truly be in love with him like before? the one person that I trusted unconditionally has betrayed me and hurt me like no other. I feel like I'll always be alone and all men are the same. No one can be trusting

"What if's" are a circular mind-game we've all played in our heads. The sooner you abandon this "what if" dilemma, the sooner your thoughts will begin to make sense again. You cannot control the outcome. You do control how you participate.


Your LOVE BANK is empty. If he were to make enough genuine deposits without love-busting behaviors, your balance would eventually be restored to an in-love level.


I've so "been there". Here is a fact which Dr Harley discusses in detail in Love Busters. Paraphrasing: ~~~> Our spouse is uniquely positioned to hurt us more deeply than anyone else in the world.
Your WH is not an exception to this fact. Neither is my H. Neither am I. I am in the unique position to hurt Mr Pep more deeply than anyone else in this world. Fact.


Well then, all women are "the same" as well. Right? If any wife betrayes her husband, that makes all wives guilty. Right?
I hear the coo-coo calling
Now you know how unreasonable and illogical feelings are. They just are. Because you feel something does not make it true. Your feeling is not a fact.


Well, your guard is certainly up. Appropriately so.
One tends to "flinch" once they have been sucker-punched.

Hang in there Frenchie. I promise things will not always seem so gloomy.

Can anyone recommend any good books that you may think would be good for him to read?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html

You can only control your participation. You cannot "massage" the outcome.
You want to. You are desperate to.

If you want to make a suggestion, suggest he contact MB and make an appointment for coaching.

Love Busters
Surviving an Affair

Pepperband is absolutely right. Absolutely, absolute right.

You cannot massage the outcome or fix it by giving him a book.

You, personally, might try listening to Marriage Builders radio. You'll learn a lot about what it takes for someone to change. You'll hear other people in situations that are relevant to yours.

Reading and posting around here can help, too.

There is a slim remote chance he might wake up if he were to actually read Love Busters and Surviving an Affair. There is a chance someone from the coaching center could get through to him.

But it is his work to do, his changes to make.

Frenchie .... a reminder of the facts as presented by you:


* I found out after we were married he cheated with his ex who he had a son with. She got pregnant and had a daughter by him.

*When we were married 2 years. I found out the had a one night stand.

*A year later found out he had a six month affair with that one night stand. He got her pregnant and she has a daughter.

*He confessed that after I left he had an affair with his half sister over there that he met for the first time after I left.

*Then he admitted to having sex with prostitutes. He even got arrested for it and I didn't know.

*He wanted a divorce and was leaving me for his sister.



Are any of these facts exaggerated or over-stated?

He can read lots of books, but he needs waaaaaay more than that. "How to NOT HAVE SEX WITH YOUR SISTER" just won't cut it. He needs actual therapy, long-term, and to work on himself separate from you, before he even tries to repair the M.

Whenever there is abuse, and I most definitely count incest as abuse, I believe that the spouses should separate till the abuse is dealt with, and then both are healthy enough to think about rebuilding the M.

Nope. All. All true. Only one that changed is that he doesn't want a divorce. He wants our marriage

On what conditions do you want this marriage?

Because, I don't give a flip what he wants.

He's wanted adultery and incest too.

Yes, we all want good things that cost us nothing, even if they cost other people dearly.

While he is wayward? No, I can't think of any. I've got some good ones for him when he's ready to repair your marriage, though.

He does want to repair. I don't know if I can though. Every time we talk about fixing things all he thinks about is fixing the sex problem between us. I told him there are bigger issues that need to get healed and fixed before any sex issue. Fix those and then the sex issues will follow. I'm so frustrated.

All of those issues get fixed together in the Marriage Builders program, but of course, he has to protect your marriage first by taking extraordinary precautions to guarantee he will be faithful. That's the first step in the program. If he wants to follow the program, then yes, you guys will get to fix the sex problems.

Have you ever explained to him about the LOVE BANK theory?

Here is what I recommend.
Go to the questionnaires portion of this site & print out the LOVE BUSTERS for both of you. Tell him you want his participation. Download the parts for both husband and wife.

*** LINK HERE *** <~~~ One for wife and one for husband

Tell WH he has one day to finish his portion. You too. Then, exchange your answers and do not discuss for another 24 hours. Then, set a one hour time for discussion. Another hour the following day. And so on. Discuss it daily for one hour until you are satisfied he understands.

Pretty simple. Pretty easy. Not too demanding. Not threatening.

If he fails to do this simple task to restore your love for him ... he has failed the "is he recovery material" test. He gets the boot.

And, you will have your answer. Like it or not.

Dr Harley writes:

Frenchie, WH cannot possibly expect you to be in love with him while he is still love-busting.

Frenchie, if WH displays any arrogance or becomes irked by your request he learn about and fix his love-busters, PLEASE, stop the exercise, and post here. You should not force him, EVER. If he needs to be forced, he gets ~~~> THE BOOT !

WH should be grateful he's even getting a chance to sit next to you, much less insert his penis inside of you because he wants to. Remember, Frenchie, him sitting next to you is a privilege at this point. A freaking privilege.

Here is a radio show where Dr. Harley explains the path for men to get their sexual needs met in marriage:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=68

I felt this need to be posted again and in a larger print so it is not over looked. Excellent post.

Ha! Thanks.

I think Frenchie feels she needs to give her sad-excuse-for-a-man-WH one more chance.
Which is why Frenchie can offer to do the Love-Busters exercise with him. At a leisurely pace.

If he is not thrilled to death at having this (LAST) chance to learn how to make her happy, then ~~~> the boot !

Frenchie, you are giving this man a chance he does NOT deserve. It is your right to offer that *grace* to him. You are not obligated to try at all.
You are certainly not being advised to make more efforts than he is willing to (gratefully) make.


I will be surprised if Frenchie's WH is up to the simplest of tasks.
We'll see. But, I offered this because I think Frenchie needs to know she tried everything.

And some of us have given chance after chance after chance after chance after chance after chance and then more chances.....way more than the WS EVER deserved......then able to walk away guilt free that "hey, at least I tried and tried and tried and tried....then i tried some more".

It is not necessary to do this over and over. Save yourself sometime and if you do allow to give a chance, make it only 1.

Thanks everyone. I will have him do it. But to be honest I don't know if I have it in me to even try to work it out. I think that too much damage has been done. Sometimes I wish I didn't feel like that and that I could fall back in love with him like before but I don't really know if it's possible after all he's done. All he cares about talking about and fixing is the "sex" and I'm not interested at all.

Frenchie, you could give WH the BOOT today.
We will all applauded that decision.

Your husband reminds me of my aunts husband. She was married for 30 or so years. She never saw one Of his paychecks.
He spent his pay on escorts. She later found a "black book" listing the girls, their contact info and the various sex acts they were good at.

She divorced him, but recently took him back.

Whatever you know about your husband, it's probably a 100 times worse.

I would divorce the worthless as addict.
If in doubt call the Marriage builders radio show and ask the Doctor if a lifelon sex addict can change.
I'm very sorry.

The thing with your husband is that he is an ADDICT.
Dr. Harley says that persons in affairs have ejaviors SIMILAR to addicts. However your husband actually IS an addict.

He will feed his addiction before you, his kids and himself.
Addictions are progressive and it will get worse and worse.
As his spouse you can either enable his addiction or help him by making him FACE the natural consequences of his addiction.

You cannot argue morality with an addict. He is probably very ashamed of his own behavior. He is powerless over his addiction.

You are also powerless over his addiction.

There is a group called Sex Addicts Anonymous. Tey use the same 12 step program that AA and Al Anon use. The first step is to admit that you are POWERLESS over your husbands addictions.

Here is a MB article about sexual addictions.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8120_sex_addiction.html

He needs to deal with his issues all on his own, without you in the picture. You need to heal all on your own, without him in the picture.

Once you have two healthy pictures, then and only then should you even start thinking about making a composite image.

If he doesn't show up to court will they still go forward with it? He refuses to go.

If a person is summoned to court they are required to appear by themselves or by counsel.
It would be to your benefit if he does not appear.

Yes they will, but it depends. Some judges may extend it. I would have your lawyer explain that he has refused to show. Do you have any of his refusals in writing? To show the judge?

He isn't very smart if he doesn't show up. Please make sure you still go and proceed.

Some judges will be harder on the one, who do not show up.

Hi Everyone. It's been a while since I've been on here. Thought I'd give everyone and update.

We are still together. things seemed to get easier and with time I didn't think of the about all that he did as much and as often, but when I do oh boy do I! I still can't get over the hurt. He still treating me good now, but sometimes a bit of the old husband comes back as far as the comments and attitude and insensitivity. Most of the time he is lovey dovey and all over me which aggrevates me but then again when he he's not like that I feel bad. We have problems with his family now to top it off and he doesn't stand up for the kids and me. His mother does't talk to me and I don't know why. We were fine when everything came out and now she just ignores me completely and avoids me when ever the family is together.

About a month ago his niece made contact with the kids he had out of the affair on FB. I guess his niece had asked him if she could and he said yes. He said he told her yes when he wasn't living here. My daughters found out and were upset about their cousins making contact with her. They wanted to be the ones to do so when THEY were ready and they are not now. My daughter's had told the cousins that they wish they didn't do that, that is wasn't their place to do so. My kids can never say what how they feel to their cousins because they all get upset. the Neices were calling my kids names and so on an so forth and it was very verbally abusise towards my kids. My husband did nothing to stop his nieces from doing this. He has just been avoiding it. My daughters do not want to have anything to do with those cousins at all. They verbally attacked me to my kids and were talking smack about me for no reason. I haven't said anything to them because if I do I'm the bad guy. to them my kids can't stand up for themselves so I have to be behind it all which is so far from the truth. I've told my husband that he should be setting them straight and let them know that he loves them but they cannot talk like that about me or his kids but he refuses. He doesn't feel that they were wrong to contact this kid he had.

I hate how he blames me and says that it's my fault that he never had contact with this kids he had out of an affair. When I found out about the kids and that affair, I had asked him what he wanted,if he wanted to have contact with her and have her around and he said no. Had he said yes, I would have left him for sure then and he knew that so now I know that is why he said no and never did. How is it my fault? His family believes it's my fault that he never had contact with her growing up and it's not or is it and am I just kidding myself?? My kids are old enough that if they want contact they can and I am fine with it. The mother sent me an email and told me that he told her back then when they were having an affair that we were getting a divorce. He has always said that was not true from day one and she knew he was married. I believe him because of the things she has said and not her but she has told this kid that she didn't know he was married. I understand her reason so she doesn't look bad to her daughter but I'm not and he isn't going to lie to her about what really happend.

back to the cousins. My older 2 daughters are very hurt and upset at their dad for not sticking up for them. My oldest has even told me that she wouldn't care anymore if we divorced because he has been so wrong. The neice who said the awful things talks like that because she knows that he doesn't have the balls to stick up to her and tell her not to do those things. I've told him that and he doesn't care. And now he expects us to all go over on Christmas Eve. None of us but him and my son wants to go. The neices have talked crap this this daughter of his and is getting in the way and damaging any relationship that she and my kids can have. they feels that they are trying to make them look bad instead of just butting out of it and let them get to know each other without anyone interfering.

sorry so long. I've been so down and I just can't stop thinking about everything again. Now to top it off he doesn't stand up for us and letting his family treat us with so little respect. he doesn't even respect us.

oh as far as the court, out next court date is December 20th. I've been rescheduling it everytime. Not sure how often they will continue to do this without throwing it out all together.

So, you decided to not participate in Marriage Builders advice.

It's not I've not decided NOT topaticipate in it. That is not it at all. I just feel to emotinaly and physically week and so drained. It's so hard to even get out of bed sometimes. Hard to even focus.

If you had a written detailed plan, you would find that you can focus on step one. Then, step two.
etc

Not having a detailed plan tends to cause a person more confusion and loss of focus.

Best of luck to you. I wish you well.

I'm going to read through everything over. It's been a while. I see lots of info on how to save your marriage, just still confused on if it's worth saving. Will it happen again? Deep down I guess it will and it's just a matter of time. It's obviously all he's ever done. He swears he won't but he's sworn he wouldn't before. Hard to know exactly what is best for me and in the end how will everything turn out. Don't want to regret divorce but then again don't know if I could considering all he's done.

I have but one question for you, my dear lady:

Given that the Marriage Builders program has
enabled the recovery and repair of thousands
of marriages, and facilitated the healing of
the betrayed spouses in those marriages too
far damaged for recovery, are you afraid to
give this program your best efforts because
it may fail......or because it may succeed?

How do I know that I really want it to work. Part if me doesn't and part of me does. I just don't know if I want it for the right reasons? Does the part of me that does, is it because I'm afraid if being alone? Afraid if starting over? Deep down I think he will do it again because that is what he's done. How much damage can someone do and be I repairable? Did you read my first post about what happened? And my first post today about what's going on now?

I know it says to expose what he did to everyone but how do you do that without everyone in his family hating me? They already hate me as it is because he blames me for what he did somewhat and how I've told some people. I don't know if its cultural (he says it is). They stick tight together no matter what even when they are wrong.

If you aren't going to expose and you aren't going to Plan B then please read this.

BSs........Plan C is NOT a plan

I'm definetly in plan c. Getting the courage to go to plan B is so hard

Did you read my first post about what happened? And my first post today about what's going on now?

Yes, I read your postings when they first appeared, and reviewed them today.

So, the question before you is: If not proceeding with a goal, to a plan, with support of peer-counselors here, was your choice six months ago, how well are you satisfied with the result? Well enough to continue along the same path, at least for another six months?

You remind me of the fellow who jumps off a one-hundred story skyscraper. As he plummets past the fortieth floor, an onlooker shouts, "How's it going?" The jumper yells back, "Well so far, I really can't complain!"

Here's a big secret: The MB Program, properly executed, can work. Here's a bigger secret: We can't make it work for you.