Marriage Builders
Posted By: sabliving Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/17/12 11:37 PM
Hello,

I am Joe's wife. To keep this a little shorter, we have been married for 9 years, we have 2 amazing boys (6, 7 1/2) My husband is a recovering alcoholic, we have had a extremely rough road which involves him having an affair 4 years ago, he has been emotionally abusive and physically at one point which i do not want to further comment on. I first filed for divorce 2 years ago and thats when i met a "friend" that was there for me to get through a rough time ( so i believed at least) this friendship became more unfortunately and was to some points physical and emotional. However i still was not able to divorce my husband. i saw the selfish need to try to make it work but it failed because we did not seek the appropriate help at that point. i then moved out last year and we separated. I was still talking to this friend of mine on occasion, i became somewhat addicted to him and he became more controlling as well, in hindsight he turned out to be very similar to my husbands behaviors. My husband has had tried to win me back over this year and i was not able to separate the grief of my past and the addiction to this other person. I have committed adultery just like my husband did and i feel like the last piece of cow manure about this. This is not a "poor me" post, just to make this clear because i have been the betrayed spouse before and know how it feels.
I told my husband about it today, and he gave me two options
Option A: i should end any kind of contact with this person ( which i have and tried before) i should mov back in with him as soon as possible and seek help from this program, which also in tails complete exposure. i let him have my phone today and we changed my number and as little comment to the side he also added that he had sex with the neighbor about 6 months ago.
Option B: If i decide not to go with option A, he will not speak to me again and will fight me for our kids in court, my kids are also not allowed in my home.

With all that being said, i am certainly not proud of myself and did never want to hurt him, anyone in that matter. This was the worst mistake i ever did and i can't sit here and say or point fingers that he's done that to me before because its not right in any way.
At this point i still do have a lot of issues to deal with from my past, simply because i never dealt with them and was trying to push them aside and did the wrong decision. But where does that lead me now? What should i do at this point? Not contacting this other person is obvious, regardless if i stay with my husband.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/17/12 11:48 PM
sabliving, you are in the right place to transform this marriage and recover from affairs on both sides. The past can be left in the past and you can work on changing present behaviors. You don't have to live in an unhappy, crippled marriage if you use this program. Many of us have fully recovered, happy, romantic marriages today. You can have that too.

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I was still talking to this friend of mine on occasion, i became somewhat addicted to him and he became more controlling as well, in hindsight he turned out to be very similar to my husbands behaviors.

This friend is what indiegirl would call a vulture. He swooped in when you were at your worst and took advantage of the situation. Any man who has an affair with a married woman is an uncaring bum who has no respect for marriage. I don't expect you to realize that now, but you will understand it more clearly when you get farther away from him and your affair.

I would strongly suggest you take option A, because Option B will be the biggest mistake of your life. You don't even want your kids to know you busted up their family for some loser. They will never forget you did that to them. It will be the biggest mistake of your life.

Not to mention that the OM does not love you. I can tell from your husbands posts that he does love you very much.
Posted By: markos Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:04 AM
Hello, sab, it is good to see you both posting. I've been posting to Joe for the last several days, and I just wanted to stop in to say that the Marriage Builders program here transformed my marriage, and it can transform yours, as well.
Posted By: JOEneedshelp Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:06 AM
And thank you to all the support, I do love her very much and want a recovered happy marriage.
******edit******
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by sabliving
Hello,

I am Joe's wife. To keep this a little shorter, we have been married for 9 years, we have 2 amazing boys (6, 7 1/2) My husband is a recovering alcoholic, we have had a extremely rough road which involves him having an affair 4 years ago, he has been emotionally abusive and physically at one point which i do not want to further comment on. I first filed for divorce 2 years ago and thats when i met a "friend" that was there for me to get through a rough time ( so i believed at least) this friendship became more unfortunately and was to some points physical and emotional. However i still was not able to divorce my husband. i saw the selfish need to try to make it work but it failed because we did not seek the appropriate help at that point. i then moved out last year and we separated. I was still talking to this friend of mine on occasion, i became somewhat addicted to him and he became more controlling as well, in hindsight he turned out to be very similar to my husbands behaviors. My husband has had tried to win me back over this year and i was not able to separate the grief of my past and the addiction to this other person. I have committed adultery just like my husband did and i feel like the last piece of cow manure about this. This is not a "poor me" post, just to make this clear because i have been the betrayed spouse before and know how it feels.
I told my husband about it today, and he gave me two options
Option A: i should end any kind of contact with this person ( which i have and tried before) i should mov back in with him as soon as possible and seek help from this program, which also in tails complete exposure. i let him have my phone today and we changed my number and as little comment to the side he also added that he had sex with the neighbor about 6 months ago.
Option B: If i decide not to go with option A, he will not speak to me again and will fight me for our kids in court, my kids are also not allowed in my home.

With all that being said, i am certainly not proud of myself and did never want to hurt him, anyone in that matter. This was the worst mistake i ever did and i can't sit here and say or point fingers that he's done that to me before because its not right in any way.
At this point i still do have a lot of issues to deal with from my past, simply because i never dealt with them and was trying to push them aside and did the wrong decision. But where does that lead me now? What should i do at this point? Not contacting this other person is obvious, regardless if i stay with my husband.
Welcome, sab. Good job, posting here! So, you're going to end all contact with that skanky OM, yes? Are you ready to have a great marriage? Have you been reading the articles on this site?
Posted By: FindingFreedom Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:24 AM
Hello sab and welcome. As a wayward wife myself, I can tell you that if you continue in your adultery, you will harden your heart, hate your life and wish you were dead.

This other man is using you. He is a liar and a coward. If he really loved you, he would want good things for you. He would want you to live truthfully.

You can be strong enough to end your adultery. With some time you will see this other man is no prize.

You will want to continue your adultery with him. This is withdrawal from your addiction. When you feel like calling him, don't. Go for a walk. Do your housework. Call your mother, sister, friend. Then get up the next day and do it again.

This is your first step SAB. Can you do this ?
Posted By: sabliving Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:26 AM
Thank you everyone for understanding. It became very clear to me that this other person was not the right thing i needed, in a fog ppl do but what i did and it was wrong and thats a fact.
In a very strange way, i had been wanting to tell my husband about this for a long time, i didn't want this and i never wanted to turn into this because after all, i was the one that had gone through hell years prior and wouldn't want anyone to experience the same. I wanted this to be over for a long time just as much because to state the obvious, it was horrible of what i did and i was still not over my past and in the middle of dealing with all this combined. So i did what i do best, i ran! But in hindsight, i ran myself into the ground by trying to get out of this hole. I am very relieved to be away from this other person and that it came to light. And i will not go back to this person either but now i have to face the facts of my past and how i will deal with it because there is no more running, everything is raw.

Some of you might not agree with me on this but i still have huge problems of being with my husband. Committing to something in that matter. i just want to roll up in my bed and be alone, i am not alone right now, he confiscated my phone and wants to be in the same room with me. i'm confused in what to do. I am not confused by stopping to talk to the OM, that is not the issue but my husband has given me two choices. I am scared, i am scared to lose my kids because he said he'd fight me on that in court. i strongly disagree by telling the kids about the affair, they are still little and will not understand. And if we would do that, we would have to tell them about their dads prior affair, trying to hook up with a coworker a few months ago and actually succeeding to have sex with the neighbor and mother of their play friends a few months ago and him raping me 5 years ago and thats something kids at that age should not be confronted with.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:43 AM
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I would strongly suggest you take option A, because Option B will be the biggest mistake of your life.

I agree.

If for no other reason, think of your kids. Their whole world is based on the foundation of your marriage. If you take that away from them, it will destroy their world.

It's no surprise that you do not want to be with your husband right now. You've been with another man, and your emotions are comparing the two.

Try recovery. You won't regret trying.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:44 AM
Originally Posted by sabliving
Some of you might not agree with me on this but i still have huge problems of being with my husband. Committing to something in that matter. i just want to roll up in my bed and be alone, i am not alone right now, he confiscated my phone and wants to be in the same room with me. i'm confused in what to do. I am not confused by stopping to talk to the OM, that is not the issue but my husband has given me two choices. I am scared, i am scared to lose my kids because he said he'd fight me on that in court. i strongly disagree by telling the kids about the affair, they are still little and will not understand. And if we would do that, we would have to tell them about their dads prior affair, trying to hook up with a coworker a few months ago and actually succeeding to have sex with the neighbor and mother of their play friends a few months ago and him raping me 5 years ago and thats something kids at that age should not be confronted with.

Would the best solution for you to fall in love with the father of your children?

This has been posted many times on this board.

Thing is this can happen if you work MB. You have some of the best people already helping you.

Another thing to keep in mind is to do a counseling session with the Harley's. They have helped many marriages to recover and be better then pre affair. You and your H will learn how to be better spouses.

You will not be able to think straight until you detox from the OM. NC will help this to happen.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by sabliving
Some of you might not agree with me on this but i still have huge problems of being with my husband.

What are the issues with this?

And yes, your children over the age of 4 should be told about your affair and your husband's affairs. They need to be told the truth about the source of tension in their home. They should be given basic facts without being too graphic and the names of the affairees. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. Giving them false explanations about the source of tension in their home teaches them to be dishonest and causes them great confusion. When incomprehensible explanations are given, they conclude THEY are the problem. So, set them down and tell them the truth.

Whatever the issues are with your husband, we can help you both work through them. You just have to be radically honest about them.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:57 AM
sabliving, do you want to save this marriage? Are you ready to get to work? We do not believe in marriage at all costs on this board, but if you are willing, we can help you turn this into a happy, fulfilling marriage. We are not suggesting that you settle for an unhappy, bad marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 01:02 AM
Sab, a no contact letter sent to the OM would be a good will gesture to your husband:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent
here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Posted By: indiegirl Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 08:54 AM
I am very happy to see you here, Sab,

Welcome to Marriage Builders!

Originally Posted by sabliving
I became somewhat addicted to him and he became more controlling as well,


Ah, the drug dealer is happy to dish out free stuff in the beginning, but then he turns into quite a nasty piece of work when you're on the hook, doesn't he?

Unfortunately this is not uncommon for a POSOM. Only losers go after married women, and a vulture who specifically goes after a BW does so for the express purpose of abusing her weakness.

But I'm not letting you off the hook, here. You need to put on your big girl pants and remember that there are children relying to you to make LOGICAL and not EMOTIONAL decisions.

Right now you are an emotional addict, and I would not put too much faith in your feelings. Look instead to facts.

This addict is not going to leave you alone, and your husband is offering you his protection. The best way to unhook this loser is by taking a stand for your marriage. You are still married, and the only way to undo your adultery is to offer your H an NC letter which he can send the OM. Then you change all your contact details and give your H accountability to prevent yourself from back sliding.

You need to go 'cold turkey' and you need your H's help with that.

The second job is to start becoming an honest person, instead of a liar.

The only way to become an honest person is to stop fearing the truth, and everyone's reaction to the truth. It is only the truth, after all.

Lying to your H about this loser didnt help anyone did it? Lying to your children and family follows the same principle. Tell them the truth. Any child over 4 already knows something is very wrong.

Your marriage stands a VERY good chance, if you turn this boat around, because your H is onboard 200 per cent.

The reason it doenst feel possible to you is because by allowing your addiction to OM to blossom, it has kept you feeling distanced from your husband.

That can be fixed.
Posted By: Caracal Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 09:08 AM
Welcome Sab, I'm glad you found us here.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
You need to go 'cold turkey' and you need your H's help with that.
I second this.

Detox that POSOM from yourself. Do NOT allow him to meet any EN's, as this will simply keep you addicted to him. Change your numbers, email addy, allow Joe to change your FB password so you can no longer access it, and write the NC letter.

Become transparent in your marriage.

Give yourself some time away from OM and with Joe so you can make a logical choice.

Right now you are trying to make choices whilst high as a kite.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:29 PM
Hey sabliving, how is the discussion with the kids going? I wanted to show you some of Dr Harley's reasoning for telling the kids:

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

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Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.


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The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

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2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

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My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.

Go to 8:40 in this clip: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3694

and then it finishes up here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3695
Posted By: sabliving Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:36 PM
I changed my phone number yesterday, we deleted Facebook, i sent the OM one of these letters. i do not want or will talk to him anymore. Since this person was the same kind of what i experienced before, it makes it a lot easier to forget because for one i'm not proud of what i did and having to treat someone me such low respect. i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.
I'm not sure if anyone is willing to believe me but i'm glad this is over, its a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.
However now i'm facing the facts at home, We still very much struggle with this recent bomb but in contrary i'm also facing my Husbands actions from the past since i never got over that.
For example, this morning my husband wanted to be intimate with me but i couldn't, its not because of the OM, its because i'm not ready for that yet but he got frustrated because he feels emasculated. I can understand his point of view but am not sure what to do. I do not want to feel like i'm a piece of body to someone anymore that is being used by anyone. But my husband is under the impression that especially after the news yesterday, i should want to have sex with him because he is willing to work on our marriage.
At this point my emotions are changing by the hour, i'm trying my hardest to think logically but being very overwhelmed does not help this situation.
My husband also gets very frustrated that i am unable to tell him that i love him
Posted By: sabliving Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:54 PM
The kids aren't with us at the moment because they are on vacation with their grandparents. Even when we were completely separated, the kids were always our first priority. We did dual parenting and also did fun stuff as a family together. We try really hard not to talk about any of this while the kids are around. When i moved out last year, i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore. But we very much stressed that we both love them, its not their fault and that we are always there for them if they want any parents at any given time. During this year of separation we had some problems with our youngest, as my husband came home from his work trip he sat down in my son's classroom to keep an eye on him and it got a lot better and now he became a great student that was in fact actually tested and pulled out of his reading lab and any extra supplemental tutoring. However there is on memory that follows me around, when our youngest was suspended from school, my husband picked him up and took him home, i then received a text message saying that they both are sitting on the couch at the moment and are crying and my husband asked my son if he was crying because mommy does not live here anymore. And thats where i draw the line, i personally find it manipulating and am still not agreeing to talk to my kids about any of the things we did. Maybe later in life but not at this age. My oldest asked me recently when we were alone in the car if we were still moving, i told him that i wasn't sure, he then said that he was exited to move but he needs to act sad in front of daddy because he knows daddy does not like the idea. I told him that what mommy and daddy do is out of his power and not to worry about us, i told him that we love both of them very much and to think of things that make him happy instead of worrying.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by sabliving
I changed my phone number yesterday, we deleted Facebook, i sent the OM one of these letters. i do not want or will talk to him anymore. Since this person was the same kind of what i experienced before, it makes it a lot easier to forget because for one i'm not proud of what i did and having to treat someone me such low respect. i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.
I'm not sure if anyone is willing to believe me but i'm glad this is over, its a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.
However now i'm facing the facts at home, We still very much struggle with this recent bomb but in contrary i'm also facing my Husbands actions from the past since i never got over that.
For example, this morning my husband wanted to be intimate with me but i couldn't, its not because of the OM, its because i'm not ready for that yet but he got frustrated because he feels emasculated. I can understand his point of view but am not sure what to do. I do not want to feel like i'm a piece of body to someone anymore that is being used by anyone. But my husband is under the impression that especially after the news yesterday, i should want to have sex with him because he is willing to work on our marriage.
At this point my emotions are changing by the hour, i'm trying my hardest to think logically but being very overwhelmed does not help this situation.
My husband also gets very frustrated that i am unable to tell him that i love him


These are all very common struggles faced by most couples entering recovery. I dont see anything particularly unusual here.

You're still in withdrawal from the OM, so that's why you are unable to tell Joe you love him or join him in mutually pleasurable sex.


I think it's good you are remaining honest about your feelings instead of just saying whatever gets you out of trouble.

Give Joe an opportunity to improve your lovebank for him over time, and you will be glad you did.

He wont be able to do much to make you love him right now, while in withdrawal, so just hang tight, be around each other a lot and dont lovebust.

Oh and I do believe you are glad its over. That's very common for some WWs when there is a very predatory, particularly scumbaggy OM.

But you were addicted and are in withdrawal. Just because today is a bad hangover, doesnt mean you are safe from the addiction.

If you pledge to Joe that you will give it your all and try an MB recovery plan, nice and slow and steady, I am sure that will help with his current frustrations.

Plus under the plan he will have to make amends to you for his own past actions.

The plan includes Exposure though, missy.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by sabliving
However now i'm facing the facts at home, We still very much struggle with this recent bomb but in contrary i'm also facing my Husbands actions from the past since i never got over that.

\grrrrrr... I just wrote you a long post and accidentally wiped it out! banghead Anyway, regarding your husbands past, it needs to be left in the past. You have enough on your plate without adding new problems to the mix. The past should be left in the past. Don't bring his past indescretions and once he has all the facts about your affair, it should never be brought up.

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For example, this morning my husband wanted to be intimate with me but i couldn't, its not because of the OM, its because i'm not ready for that yet but he got frustrated because he feels emasculated. I can understand his point of view but am not sure what to do.

Can you and your husband go off for a one week vacation to recreate your emotional bond? Can you both take off work and just go?

That is what is missing here, Sab, you don't have an emotional connection to your husband. Once you get that back, you will feel like having sex with him.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by sabliving
When i moved out last year, i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore. But we very much stressed that we both love them, its not their fault and that we are always there for them if they want any parents at any given time.

You lied to them. crazy That is how you mess up the minds of little kids. Kids know that if you don't get along with someone the solution is to learn to get along so your explanation just scares and confuses them. When kids get imcomprehensible explanations about the source of tension, they conclude the problem is THEM. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.

And your kids probably met your OM, didn't they?

Any children over the age of 4 should be told the truth. It is adultery and lies that harm little kids, not the truth. Your kids need to know the truth, that you were willing to wreck their family for an affair. They will find out anyway so it is best coming from you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by sabliving
i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore.

That doesn't make any sense to an adult, how could it possibly make sense to a child? At best you taught your kids that you will leave them too if you don't "get along" with them. You sent them the message that marriage is cheap and disposable. Are they to abandon any of their relationships in life because they don't get along with someone too?

Kindergardners are taught how to get along with others so I don't think kids believe that is a legitimate reason to get divorced. Not getting along is a problem to be solved, not a reason to break up a family.

My parents lied to me in a similar way when I was a child and all it did was teach me to doubt my own instincts. I knew something was not right when I met one of my dad's OW but since no one would validate that instinct, I concluded I must be a stupid girl. My parents false explanations caused great confusion and self doubt.

Don't play with your kids' heads like that, Sab. Tell them the truth. They already know some of it, they just need to hear the facts from you and get some moral guidance.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by sabliving
the kids were always our first priority. We did dual parenting and also did fun stuff as a family together.


I hardly think you can say that when youve been lying to them all this time.

Originally Posted by sabliving
i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore. But we very much stressed that we both love them, its not their fault and that we are always there for them if they want any parents at any given time.


You gave them the impression that people fall out of love the way people get over a cold. this is massively confusing for kids. They then think love is unstable and untrustworthy.

This is a lie. The truth is your H destroyed the m with an affair. Then you had an A too.

They will have seen more than you know. Kids hide and listen when things dont make sense. And you will have been too high and too foggy to really notice this.

Originally Posted by sabliving
my husband asked my son if he was crying because mommy does not live here anymore. And thats where i draw the line, i personally find it manipulating and am still not agreeing to talk to my kids about any of the things we did.


If your child was upset, your husband did the right thing in telling him he could ask about ANYTHING that was affecting him. The right thing in naming the most likely cause of his child's upset.

Refusing to speak to your children about the TRUE source of their pain is uncaring. Are they supposed to pretend they are upset about something else? Accept your weak lies that people just fall out love?

Originally Posted by sabliving
I told him that what mommy and daddy do is out of his power and not to worry about us, i told him that we love both of them very much and to think of things that make him happy instead of worrying.


That's horrendous. Telling him that you wont take his worries into account and you will do as you please. And then lie about it.

Couldnt you have told him the two of you WILL do things to resolve his worries? Worries that he has a right to feel and express?

And you did not think of that, when you had your affair, did you? The time for that type of thinking is over.

It's clear you are demonsiing your H to lessen your guilt with the example of him speaking honestly to your child. guilt of what you did. Guilt that you lie and continue to lie.

Speaking of your guilt:

Originally Posted by sabliving
i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.


This is in large part because you are still a secretive dishonest person. If you show a good example and are honest whne you make mistakes, your poor opinion of yourself will improve.

No one else, not your children, no one, will think you deserved this treatment.

Because no one does.

It is the secrecy that is giving this idea its power over you.

The truth will set you free.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 01:58 PM
I wanted to give you some links of what Dr. Harley says about telling the children.

Infidelity:The Lessons children learn
Exposure 101

Found a radio clip from Dr. Harley telling children even as young as 4.
The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair
Posted By: markos Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by sabliving
I changed my phone number yesterday, we deleted Facebook, i sent the OM one of these letters. i do not want or will talk to him anymore. Since this person was the same kind of what i experienced before, it makes it a lot easier to forget because for one i'm not proud of what i did and having to treat someone me such low respect. i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.
I'm not sure if anyone is willing to believe me but i'm glad this is over, its a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.
However now i'm facing the facts at home, We still very much struggle with this recent bomb but in contrary i'm also facing my Husbands actions from the past since i never got over that.
For example, this morning my husband wanted to be intimate with me but i couldn't, its not because of the OM, its because i'm not ready for that yet but he got frustrated because he feels emasculated. I can understand his point of view but am not sure what to do. I do not want to feel like i'm a piece of body to someone anymore that is being used by anyone. But my husband is under the impression that especially after the news yesterday, i should want to have sex with him because he is willing to work on our marriage.
At this point my emotions are changing by the hour, i'm trying my hardest to think logically but being very overwhelmed does not help this situation.
My husband also gets very frustrated that i am unable to tell him that i love him

I believe you, sab. Having to sneak around and hide this relationship had to be sapping the very soul out of you and was surely a tremendous burden. Honesty is refreshing.

I am sure that Joe is very impatient to recover your marriage (i.e., make things good again) and is probably a little bit clueless about how that is going to play out. I believe husbands tend to be a little bit clueless about a lot of relationship things. Even when husbands seem like they get a lot more than the average guy, we can still miss a lot.

That cluelessness can lead to some massive insensitivity. Joe likely feels (as is normal for a guy) that sexual bonding would be great for you guys right now. He may even be right about that, a lot of couples do go through a period of what's sometimes called "hysterical bonding" after an affair. But it's not right if it's done in a way that you're not enthusiastic about, and if he's getting frustrated that you declined, he is likely to become demanding, disrespectful, or angry.

If he does, it is important that you complain to him about it, clearly and respectfully. He needs to understand that if you guys are going to recover your marriage (as he wants) that both of you are going to have to adopt an attitude of no tolerance towards demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts. Say something like: "I am not enthusiastic about sex right now, and I find the way you are acting about it disrespectful."

If you get the chance to look over Dr. Harley's articles about sex and mention that to Joe, particularly the article on overcoming sexual aversion, it may give Joe hope that you'll be interested in talking about this emotional need down the road, and may help him be a little more calm about it. Right now my take is that you guys probably have bigger emotional issues to cover first. The sooner you can get there the better, but not if it leads to emotional harm for one or both of you.
Posted By: markos Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 03:46 PM
sab, what is this about Joe's affair with a neighbor six months ago? Is this neighbor still around?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by sabliving
i still get the thoughts of maybe i deserved to be treated like a piece of crap.

And you think your moods & attitudes do not effect your children?
That's the mother of your children you're talking about.
If you somehow earned bad treatment, then it makes sense to conclude you can also earn excellent treatment.

If your kids have a Mom who "deserves" to be treated like crap, by logical sequence, they also deserve a crap sandwich.

Quit talking stupidly. The drama dramaqueen from their mama does not help your kids.


Quote
My husband also gets very frustrated that i am unable to tell him that i love him

Fine, Instead say: "I respect you." For now, that is a love bank deposit you can make.
Posted By: JOEneedshelp Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 10:21 PM
Hey guys, She is very upset at me for starting the exposure process. She brings the past up and constantly says "I didnt do that to you"
We had not found MB at taht point.
I have been telling about my past as well as hers in the exposure so that its not an attack, but she still views it that way.
She is extremely mad for me exposing at OM work, saying that he will get in trouble.
I asked and the most he will get is a stern talking to and a no contact letter. His career will not be ruined unless I provide proof. (yes its that kind of career).
How can I continue the exposure and explain to her that I do not mean to hurt her, just to stop the fog and the OM from ever coming back.

She got so mad that she yelled at me, threw the past in my face and left the house again back to her town home.
I will see if she can let me come by in a little bit. I hate to leave her alone if this POSOM shows up.
And I would really love for her to move back into the house. Its so hard to trust when she is over there.
Posted By: JOEneedshelp Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 10:24 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention;
Joyce Harley called me. It was such a pleasure, and I may be on the show some time after the 4th of July.
I asked her about exposure to the kids and told her there ages.
She said that if my wife is on board with recovery then exposure to them can wait until they are a little older.
I forgot to ask, does that mean that if she stays in her rental should I expose, and if she stays in the house and works the program should I wait? I got a little confused.
She will really hate this one, and is dead set against it. I really dont want to, to be honest. Is it worth her hating me?
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 10:27 PM
Start your own thread please!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by JOEneedshelp
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention;
Joyce Harley called me. It was such a pleasure, and I may be on the show some time after the 4th of July.
I asked her about exposure to the kids and told her there ages.
She said that if my wife is on board with recovery then exposure to them can wait until they are a little older.
I forgot to ask, does that mean that if she stays in her rental should I expose, and if she stays in the house and works the program should I wait? I got a little confused.
She will really hate this one, and is dead set against it. I really dont want to, to be honest. Is it worth her hating me?

Joe, I imagine you just misunderstood. You should always tell the children no matter what the state of recovery. That is Dr Harley's standard advice and has been for years. I posted Dr Harley's quotes on the issue.

And don't worry about your wife getting upset about exposure. She was still holding the OM out as an option and wasn't really done with him. That is why she is so angry about exposure.

If the OM gets fired it will be due to his affair, and nothing else. What kind of occupation is he in?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by JOEneedshelp
She will really hate this one, and is dead set against it. I really dont want to, to be honest. Is it worth her hating me?

Anger over exposure is due to the fog so don't worry. It is like taking the car keys away from a falling down drunk. Sure, he is angry at first, but he appreciates it when he sobers up.

Rememeber, the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid your wife's anger at all costs.
Posted By: Gamma Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 11:03 PM
Joeneedshelp,


She is extremely mad for me exposing at OM work, saying that he will get in trouble. I asked and the most he will get is a stern talking to and a no contact letter. His career will not be ruined unless I provide proof. (yes its that kind of career).

Then provide proof and push the issue through, if I'm reading between the lines correctly OM uses his job as a means to get affair partners. Is he a preacher?

Getting him fired will not put him back to your WW, but will provide a very very negative association every time he thinks of his affair with your WW.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: JOEneedshelp Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Joeneedshelp,


She is extremely mad for me exposing at OM work, saying that he will get in trouble. I asked and the most he will get is a stern talking to and a no contact letter. His career will not be ruined unless I provide proof. (yes its that kind of career).

Then provide proof and push the issue through, if I'm reading between the lines correctly OM uses his job as a means to get affair partners. Is he a preacher?

Getting him fired will not put him back to your WW, but will provide a very very negative association every time he thinks of his affair with your WW.

God Bless
Gamma

Its military. Its against the UCMJ.
Posted By: Gamma Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/18/12 11:52 PM
Joeneedshelp,

Was he her commanding officer or in some position of authority over her?

And your reasons for not getting him court marshalled are? I've seen enough predatory individuals in the military and the effects they have on military families that I think you would be doing our country a service.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: Dr. Harley Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 12:03 AM
JOEneedshelp:

My position on exposure to children has been consistent over the years for a host of reasons: Tell them about the affair as soon as you discover it. The primary reason for this type of exposure is that they should know eventually anyway, even if the marriage is on the road to recovery, because it gives them accurate information about what their mom and dad are going through. If the marriage is headed for recovery, the unfaithful spouse is usually willing to go along with the revelation. But if the affair is still ongoing, or if the recovery is not very solid, the unfaithful spouse will resist the exposure, and become very upset when it's made. Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair. Affairs don't always die a natural death, but exposure speeds up whatever would have happened without it.

Joyce is correct in observing that it's a tough call when the children are 6 and 4, and she tells me that she didn't say not to tell them, but left if up to Joe's judgment. But my position has been that, tough or not, it's the right thing to do. When the marriage is recovered, it's a great lesson for the children to explain how vulnerable parents are to this very insidious enemy of marriage.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 12:16 AM
Quote
We still very much struggle with this recent bomb but in contrary i'm also facing my Husbands actions from the past since i never got over that.
That's not important now. Get your priorities straight, sab.
Quote
For example, this morning my husband wanted to be intimate with me but i couldn't, its not because of the OM, its because i'm not ready for that yet but he got frustrated because he feels emasculated.
It's because you have fallen out of love with him. Do the work that you are given here. That will fall into place.

Are the two of you spending UA time together? The kids are gone for the week? Jump on this! Spend every minute together that you can. Do FUN things - don't spend your time talking about the affair. If your BH needs to talk about it (and he will) set a time to discuss it, and then take a break and do something that both of you enjoy.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 12:18 AM
Thank you so much for the clarification, Dr. Harley!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 12:26 AM
Quote
Even when we were completely separated, the kids were always our first priority.
MISTAKE. Your first priority needs to be to your spouse. If your relationship with your spouse is healthy, the children benefit. If you neglect that relationship in favor of a bunch of little kids, the little kids get to grow up in a broken home. See the importance? You should.
Quote
When i moved out last year, i told the kids that sometimes mommy's and daddy's do not get along anymore and can't live together anymore.
Why would you tell them a crappy thing like this? You are teaching them that, when parents have a difference of opinion they split up. How ridiculous! Why would you manipulate your children this way?? naughty Sometimes mommies and daddies don't get along...AND THEY WORK OUT THEIR DIFFERENCE. Doesn't that sound a little better for your children? Wouldn't they feel safer if you said that, instead of that contrived crap you came up with to give yourself permission to screw OM?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Thank you so much for the clarification, Dr. Harley!
Whew! I was confused for a second! Thanks, Dr. Harley!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair. Affairs don't always die a natural death, but exposure speeds up whatever would have happened without it.

Joe, just wanted to make sure you saw this quote from Dr. Harley!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair. Affairs don't always die a natural death, but exposure speeds up whatever would have happened without it.

Joe, just wanted to make sure you saw this quote from Dr. Harley!
This is critical, Joe. Not only does this make it clear to your children that they are not the reason for any uneasiness in their family - your WW can't spin any wayward comments that could turn your children away from you.
Posted By: JOEneedshelp Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 05:11 AM
Thanks guys. I got hit again today though, and I don't know anymore.

I found, on her face book page, about 8 or 10 guys that she was flirting with, some mild and some down right disgusting. I couldn't believe it.
So I made a list and took it over to her crappy rental house of sin.
So there I am with my list of names and I ask if she can tell me who these people are and I asked if any where physical. At first she acted like I was retarded so I told her what all I had found, and that some of them where very very flirty and I didn't even read through them all, god only know what else is buried in there.
As soon as I told her what I had and asked to explain it she said "but we were separated then"
She got mad at me and hit me with the past, said she was all alone and abused for so long.
I asked if we could both put down our ammo and start going to work. I still am willing to try.
But she gave me some crap like "I just don't love you anymore."

I'm going tomorrow to get on anti depressants, I don't know how much more of the lies and blaming that I can take.
Posted By: Letty Re: Joeneedshelp 's wife - 06/19/12 05:20 AM
sorry to interrupt, but shouldn't joe be posting in his own thread? posting in sab's thread is confusing, and i'm concerned about them crossing over.

joe, you do have your own thread, right? i'll go have a look now.
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