Wife & I had our 20th anniversary in June, no previous marriages, 4 beautiful kids age 8-15 (boy, girl, boy, girl) - a perfect family, but our marriage seemed to lack love this year - just routine.

Through summer I was getting disturbed with her 4-6 hour "shopping" outings alone, especially on weekends when I finally was home to spend time with her. Sexual fulfillment was diminishing. In a blow-up 2.5 weeks ago, I said maybe she shouldn't have married me & she agreed - wow, I expected a denial and patch-up. She said she needs time to sort out her thinking, and I thought she was just stressed again and needed some relief from kids, me & hectic schedules. Tried to talk a few times since then, but she was reluctant to open up.

Last night she presented me with a letter revealing an adulterous relationship, how horrible she feels, how she doesn't deserve to stay, and admitted to having sex with him. I spent the evening sobbing and pleading with her to end it and we would fix our marriage, but she says she's not sure she wants to end it.

I've been in shock, not much sleep, waking up several times with gut-wrenching pain and visual images of the love I was missing from her was being freely given to a stranger she met a few months back.

I called in sick today, In between emotional breakdowns I read all parts to Coping With Infidelity. She doesn't want to hurt the guy in ending all contact, but I said how can you weigh that against the hurt you will cause to everyone that loves you once this is exposed? I said at this point it's only me that knows, so she can end it all now and nobody else would ever know, but she's asking for more time, but I said I can't keep quiet forever - I need to talk to someone for support.

I know she's hurting too because she's caught in the middle of 2 loves and doesn't know which way to go.

What to do - wait & see? Expose? I don't feel angry like I would expose out of vengeance, I just feel crushed and weep looking around the home at reminders of past better days.

mrkie, welcome to Marriage Builders. I'm so sorry your circumstances have brought you here, but you're at the right place.

Your first order of business is to kill the affair. Who is this hound dog? Do they work together? Is he married?

How are they communicating? Cell phone? You need to slap some spyware on your WW's cell phone (without her knowledge!)Computer? Get a keylogger on there. We have good resources that can help you order these things. Do they communicate on Facebook?

Have you spoken with OM and told him that his life will be a miserable HELL if he continues his nasty activities with YOUR WIFE?

Do not tell your WW (wayward wife) about this site. This is your resource for killing the affair.

You can save your marriage - listen carefully to the advice you will be given.

After you answer Maritalbliss's questions please read these.
Exposure 101
Carrot and Stick of Plan A
Thread to help newly betrayed spouses

Instinctively people don't expose because they don't want to upset their spouse when things are already on thin ice. But your only hope is full exposure, because the A can't survive in the light of day in truth. Please do the reading and then come back here, there will be vets on here to walk you through how to handle this. If you follow the plan you have a very high chance of recovering your M.

First you should calm down. We can help you save your marriage if you can put aside your emotions [no easy feat!] and follow a plan.

And no, you can't wait and see. The longer you wait to act, the less likely you are to save your marriage. Your marriage is in trouble and it is time to act if you are serious about saving it.

What you should do - immediately - is expose the affair wide and far in a strategic, methodical way. Go to the OM's facebook page, copy and paste all his contacts into a WORD doc for safekeeping. Do this first.

Then go to the link in my signature and carefully read the exposure thread. It will give you a strategy along with templates. If you can follow those instructions, you have a chance to save your marriage. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure is your most powerful weapon against the affair.

Come back here and lets discuss!

Expose, Expose, Expose....

You can only save this marriage by killing the affair first. NOTHING else you say or do will make a bit of difference until the fantasy-world of the affair is brought into reality. NOTHING.

Believe me..I know, as do many others here.

You have a lot of material to read that others have expertly provided you with. I just wanted to added support. You are not alone.

My story is proof that exposure works. Before I did it, nothing swayed my husband. The desire to not tell anyone is because you are fearful that she will bolt and for her, that she can't continue cake-eating if it gets out in the open.

The longer the cake-eating, the harder it is to save your marriage. Yes, she will be angry, but that's par for the course here. Kill the affair and whatever you do - don't warn her anymore about your telling others. When you do it you do it without warning.

You will need to prepare yourself for all kinds of awfulness that she might say to you after you expose; you need to know that NONE of it matters. In my case, I heard all kinds of horrible things! But here we are - it will be 3 months in November since we reconciled and we are happier than we have ever been!

Also, in my situation, my children did an excellent job of holding my H accountable for his actions. (They were 14, 16, and 18 at them time.)

You are in for a fight so you're going to have to put aside those emotions, like Mel said. The good news here is that your wife already confessed. At least you don't have the problem of having to come up with evidence. You will just need to expose first so that your wife isn't able to spin a tall tale before you get the chance.

Exposure is actually a very loving act and it's hard to see that when you're emotional. It's not about revenge. It's about cracking through to someone who is engaging in a terrible thing - infidelity. It's about doing what must be done to save your family; to save those precious children from a broken home!

The other good news here is that your wife has made the statement that she is torn, which means you're still in the running. Let that give you strength to do what might go against what "feels right" versus what you need to do.

Well, dude, I'm sorry you're here, but you've already heard from some experts in busting up affairs and giving your marriage a chance.

Here is the recipe you should follow immediately:

NG'S HANDBOOK FOR BETRAYED HUSBANDS

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. (�Eblaster� can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take �personal� calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and �on� whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife�s contacts, to the tune of: �I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333�
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM�s contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

You didn't say, but I'm inferring that she's bouncing around with a co-worker. If so, publicizing this at work will be mandatory.

Mrkie, first you need to understand the nature of affairs. They're addictions, right down to the brain-chemistry impact. Therefore, trying to reason with her at this point is futile. It's like trying to reason with a heroin junkie or crack-addict.

You can't begin to reason until she's a reasonable person again. That can only happen after the affair is broken up.

This will require, first of all, that you expose the affair, massively, and without warning. The letter she gave you, in her own hand, is evidence enough. You need to share it with family members, with as many of the other man's family members and friends as you can identify, and yes, sir, with your children -- basically, anyone whose opinions & esteem the affairees value.

The purpose of exposure isn't vengeance, my friend -- if you think that, then you misunderstand. The purpose of exposure is to put strain on the affair-relationship by making the affairees realize that the relationship will cost them things they hold dear.

Exposure -- without warning -- is the best weapon in your arsenal if you want to have a snowball's chance in hell of restoring your marriage. Don't threaten to expose, don't use exposure as a bargaining chip in trying to negotiate with a person who is presently unreasonable (and who therefore cannot be a reliable negotiating partner) -- just do it. It is the surprise, the shock-value, of exposure that is among its best attributes. It brings down upon affairees the fact that they are no longer in control of events.

When your wife's parents look at her and think, "How could she do that?" -- when OM's work colleagues give him sidelong glances that let him know that they know what a cad he is -- that's when costs start to hit home. When your 15 year-old looks at Mom a whole new way -- that's when costs will start to hit home.

Don't threaten OM with anything specific -- you don't want to get the police after you. Just make sure he knows, in general terms, that if he doesn't stay out of your wife's life, you won't kill him, but will make his life such a living hell that he might wish you had. Get him sleeping with one eye open. That puts stress on an affair, and might make him realize that your ol' lady is, for him, just more trouble than she's worth.

Oh, and: For Pete's sake, cut out the weeping, crying, begging crap. Never do that again. It makes you look wimpy & weak in her eyes, in contrast to the confident affair-partner. YOU need to take on that confidence. When you speak to your wife, speak with a determined, confident smile. (Even if you're dying inside.) As of now, you are Mrkie, good-guy, good dad, suave husband, bon vivant & Affair-Buster-in-Chief. Assume that persona & live it. You call the shots now. Starting with massive exposure. Read MelodyLane's "Exposure 101" link and NeverGuessed's advice to you & act on it.

Guess what, Mrkie? I was a guy who had an affair. With a married woman. It's something I'll regret for the rest of my life, but I didn't regret it enough, until I got my head straight. And what allowed me to start getting my head straight was, the other woman's husband busted her, via a Private Investigator. He had evidence. That, as far as I was concerned, meant the jig was up. It meant I was under imminent risk of having the affair exposed. That's when I came clean to my wife, and that's when I told the other woman that it needed to end, and started leaving her the hell alone. It sucked at the time, but that was the day my life was saved from a downward spiral into a hell-who-knows-how-deep-&-lasting.

In other words, basically, the light of day is what killed my affair. Affairs thrive in secrecy & darkness. Exposure isn't vengeance. It's merely bringing daylight to the darkness. (Heck, if this relationshp of theirs is so right & beautiful, why wouldn't they want EVERYONE to know?! Answer: Because they know, deep down, that it ain't so right & beautiful.) Exposure is doing your wife a favor, even though she won't realize it right away, and may not realize it for a while or ever. Maybe she won't realize it until it's too late -- there are no guarantees that this will save your marriage -- but it is your last, best chance.

Thank you all for your consistent replies and support! I'm about to go read the additional links provided, but will share that this is not a co-worker. This is an unmarried teacher in his late 20's or early 30's at one of the schools where my kids go, where he was the tennis coach, and it all spawned from when she went to the practices. I'm already checking into the school district ethics/code of conduct material to see if I can add some weight to my note to him...

Your note to him is not the issue. ("I understand you're boning my wife. Please stop!") Your note to the principal, the school board president, the director of athletics, the teacher union president, and whatever parent/teacher group is extant in your situation, and (if you have one) your friend the local reporter, will be the hammer you want to bring down! Recklessness right now will be a virtue, so after retaining him, copy the nastiest, most tenacious lawyer in town as your counsel in pursuing remedy from their lack of oversight and control over their employee. Rather than YOU deciding how the moral behavior clause might apply, get THEM wetting themselves to find out how THEY can use it to discard this liability!

THAT'S what we mean by radical and nuclear exposure!

mrkie,

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I know it all to well. (I am about three months past DDay of a very long term affair by my wife). The words I bolded above capture so well how I too feel.

You will get great advice here. Do not suggest to her in any way that that you are even remotely considering exposure.

It is highly unlikely she will end it properly without you taking the lead.

For what it is worth, I think your wife has true remorse and her telling you is almost amazing. I think they usually never come some clean without being pushed. My thought is she may not be conscious of it, but she told you because she wants your help to end it. Keep your cool and expose.

I know what you are experiencing is incredibly hard, but for the sake of your kids, yourself, and your wife, stop sobbing, do not plead or beg, step up and be the best man you can be. (I know its easier said then done, and I shed a couple of tears in front of my wife during this ordeal, but overall i have been stronger than I ever could have imagined. At times of weakness I think of my kids and how, even if the worst happens and we end it div., I want to be able to look them in the eye five or ten years from know and say I tried, worked, and fought as hard as I could to save our family and their mother. I am sure you will want to do the same.)

Get your sleep and take care of yourself, form a plan, and execute. Do it better than I did.

Exposure is not a deal breaker it is a marriage saver! I can't give you any advice better than what you are getting. All I can tell you is I probably would not have ended my affair as quickly as I did if my Husband would not have exposed it right away.

He exposed it far and wide less than 20 minutes after he found out. This not only shocked me into the reality of what I was doing but it ended the excitement of the entire affair...the secrecy behind it.

Your wife is definitely crying out to you to find a way to make it stop. She may not show it right after you have exposed but hopefully she will thank you one day.

Stay strong and keep reading...you are in the best place you can be on this forum.

Note to him? You mean to the other man? What possible purpose would that serve? Don't you think he already knows that he's having an affair with your wife??? That's not exposure! Exposure means telling OTHER people about the affair.

Do NOT send the other man a letter at this time! Instead, you should (with absolutely no warning to your wife or to the other man) be sending letters with evidence of the affair to each member of the School Board, the Superintendent, and the school district's attorney/ solicitor/ general counsel, with cc's to all the others on each letter to each of them, so that no individual recipient of your letter will feel comfortable sweeping it under the carpet.

It doesn't matter if there's a code of conduct. Fact is, if words hits the street that one of the teachers is boinking the married parent of a student, that teacher is a HUGE walking, talking financial liability for the school. Get this bum fired, get his name in the papers and make him unemployable in his profession, and chances are, he won't look so hot to your wife, and their affair will come under a huge amount of stress. That's exactly the outcome that you want.

Dude, the fact that he's a teacher at your kids' school is a tremendous GIFT to you, if you're willing to use it! BUT YOU'VE GOTTA PAY ATTENTION TO THE ADVICE HERE AND QUIT TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT ON YOUR OWN. Your own instincts here are leading you to make mistakes that will seriously shrink your chance of saving your marriage. READ about exposure until you understand it, and if there are things you don't understand, for God's sake, ask questions before you go off half-cocked and mess up your odds.

MBers, please help get this BS' attention -- he needs to slow down and actually read the advice & links he's getting.

Okay - here's your starting point. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? This guy is entrusted with the safety of children while he is destroying marriages??? You need to inform the superintendent and principal. Let them know that one of their employees is severely breaching his role as protector and mentor of children by screwing one of his pupils' mother.

mrkie,

I want to second what 15year stated. My W has thanked me for exposing, stating that it SAVED HER. WS'sare caught in an adiiction, and often can't/don't know how to disentangle themselves from the tragic mess.

Be a hero, expose, and save our wife!

And, GloveOil is spot on -- I exposed to OMs family, but what really caught his attention was exposing to his general contractor (who did NOT want to jeopardize million-dollar contracts), hospital director of operations, and union hall. OM was fired within an hour of exposure letters being received.

That was only the first shot across his bow...as Marital syas alot - OMs are cowards, weasels, and can be run off. Just so you know, my W will state from time to time that she is aware and grateful for who fought for her, and who did not.

Being an educator myself, I know you have a powerful tool I wish I had: one letter to a principal/superintendent and this OM is toast.

Get to exposing (but don't tell anyone your plans -- just prepare and execute the plan).

EXPOSE!

Just to be clear.

GloveOil,

VERY good call...CC exposure letters to the principal, the supe, asst. supe, ANY member of the district's administrative team, and each member of the school board separately.

(thanks for chiming in, and thanks for all your continued guidance, GO).

t/j - Hi Dad! I haven't seen you on here for a while. Good to hear from you! I hope everything is going well for you and Mrs. Dad.
end t/j

MB,

I'll post over on my own thread soon with an update...

Looking forward to it.

Wow - What a couple weeks. Exposure accomplished. One of her relatives found a bunch of info about what a scumbag this guy is (abandoned daughter that he lied to my wife about having no kids, multiple restraining orders, multiple engagements, Master in Psychology allows him to manipulate her, history of churning through relationships ending in restraining orders, etc.) and informed my wife, who then got alarmed and ended the affair. However, she ended mentally, but not emotionally so her heart is still attached, and she thinks she can still be friends and text him. I know this is ridiculous, but she just doesn't see it. She's hiding the fact she's communicating with him, and meeting him for coffee, but also hates the fact that there's no more trust!

Am I reading all the material correctly, that at this point she's in the Withdrawl state, and I need to basically compete with this guy to meet those emotional needs where she ultimately drops him? Should I turn a blind eye to her communication to him at this point?

No you need to make sure all contacted is ended. Will she write a NC letter?

How do you know she's still communicating with him?

Who all did you expose on OM's side?

She ended it via text, but didn't put in strong enough language for me. "I've made my decision, think we should part ways, I care for my spouse & family, please respect my choice" vs. slamming that door shut, so of course he has been texting back...

Should I force an ultimatum, NoContact or move out, or bear it and try to win her over by trying to meet her emotional needs instead of him?

Oh, and when I asked, she told me she's in communication with him, and when I asked about her going to "study at Starbucks", she admitted she was meeting him there. Maddening...

I've been the "addicted" party and I can speak from experience, it's better if she slams the door, deletes his number, deletes all email and any other correspondence, stops going to places where she knows he'll be and cuts off all contact. Unfortunately, she's addicted to this man and it'll be difficult for her to completely let go. I'm not justifying it, but I've been there and I hate to admit it, but it took several tries for me before it "took." I admire your patience and love. When my now ex-hubby (we are working on getting back together) stepped in and started fulfilling my needs, it was a lot easier to cut off, so I say, give it a whirl. He now calls and texts me multiple times per day, with just little silly, flirty, fun and encouraging messages, causing me to feel loved and and leaving no room or desire to bother with anyone else. It's a wonderful feeling. Good luck to you. She's lucky to have someone who is willing to look past her faults and mistakes and still want to be with her and love her. I hope she realizes it soon.

You demand she ends her affair and writes a proper NC letter that you approve. No Contact letter samples

Who on OM's side did you expose?

Okay, I'll type slowly so you can take your time reading it:

I.f...y.o.u.r...w.i.f.e...i.s...s.t.i.l.l...m.e.e.t.i.n.g...h.i.m.,...
t.h.e...a.f.f.a.i.r...h.a.s...n.o.t...b.e.e.n...s.u.i.t.a.b.l.y...e.n.d.e.d.!.!.!

What happened to the advised nuclear exposure that has worked for dozens of folks here. To review:

Your note to the principal, the school board president,
the director of athletics, the teacher union president,
and whatever parent/teacher group is extant in your
situation, and (if you have one) your friend the local
reporter, will be the hammer you want to bring down!
Recklessness right now will be a virtue, so after retaining
him, copy the nastiest, most tenacious lawyer in town
as your counsel in pursuing remedy from their lack of
oversight and control over their employee. Rather than
YOU deciding how the moral behavior clause might apply,
get THEM wetting themselves to find out how THEY can
use it to discard this liability!

From your note exposure consisted of informing WW that the guy that has been railing her cheating butt has done this before! Ohhhhhh, big shock!

OM Exposure included other teachers, counselors, principal, vice principal, school district investigator. Principal launched a formal district investigation & he's out on administrative leave pending investigation with orders to not contact any student or parent. I was told any further contact from him would be seen as insubordination.

Is your wife in touch with him, MK?

Unless a clear cut has been established, confirmed, maintained, with continued verification, and with the level of fogation Im sensing here, you got more work to do.

No work for this guy could be lots of free time now to...well, you know.

Stay alert.

What is your WW saying? Have you changed her cell phone number? Have you told her that she will need to leave your home if she continues contacting OM?

Remind me, please: is OM married?

Bliss he is single and a teacher at his kid's school.

Thanks BH - so...what has your WW done?

Well allrighty, then....

Congrats on tossing the exposure grenade, sir. It seems it struck a nerve with the school principal. (Kudos to him for his guts to take action!)

Now, you need to reinforce to WW the requirements you will demand from her NOT to end your marriage on your terms, due to her infidelity.

Your position should be that the marriage is damaged, but not yet destroyed. She has much work to do to save it. What is her choice?

Thanks - I agree the marrigage is damaged, but not destroyed! Well, she isn't telling me anything about any intentions to try to fix it, but I get evidence 3rd hand of her communication to sister/friends saying "I need to fix it" or "I've got to my issues to work out". We had a good open talk, and she said she's had a claustrophobic feeling of being confined to her marriage/role in life for the past 5 years, and in hindsight I see that she has slowly been moving towards very independent behavior. She's at home full time, and seems to have stopped seeing him, but I don't know if that's because she doesn't want to jeopardize him with his do not contact order imposed by school district. She has been honest with me whenever I ask about her contact with him. I've been trying to meet her emotional needs to "steal her back" from him, but no evidence it's working yet. I'm about to go away for a week long business trip, and am wondering if I should keep in touch with her regularly, or if perhaps I should not at all and hope absence makes the heart grow fonder!?

I've been trying to meet her emotional needs to "steal her back" from him, but no evidence it's working yet.

Patience, dude. Think of your WW as starting at "zero" love for you right now (possibly even a negative value.) You have to "Plan A" her love bank a whole spitload to see the effect - six months is probably minimum.

I'm about to go away for a week long business trip, and am wondering if I should keep in touch with her regularly, or if perhaps I should not at all and hope absence makes the heart grow fonder!?

Neither! Cancel your trip! It's guaranteed that in your absence she will resume contact with him. There is no "maybe" about this. Cancel your trip or have an appointment with a lawyer already arranged for your first day back, because you'll need it.

mrkie,

It is essential you get her (demand) to send him a no-contact letter. The template is on this site and you need to approve the wording.

She will come up with a hundred excuses why not to send the letter:

"I don't want to hurt him further.."
"It's already over, there is no need for a letter..."
"I need closure my own way..."
"I want the two of us to remain friends..."
"I don't want him to think badly of me..."

The truth is, refusal to send the no contact letter means there is still contact ongoing and there will continue to be communication. This is true 100% of the time, there are no exceptions.

No steps toward recovery can be taken until no contact is established, and it cannot be established without the letter.

The truth is, refusal to send the no contact letter means there is still contact ongoing and there will continue to be communication. This is true 100% of the time, there are no exceptions.[color:#000099][/color]

It was true in my case...

Here.
No Contact Letter-Samples

She has been without contact for a couple weeks now because she doesn't want him to get fired. I agree the NC is needed, and she agrees she needs to take steps to repair marriage, but says she isn't ready for any steps yet. I can continue Plan A for a while and try to fill her love bank.

If she refuses no contact she is still having the affair

You need to expose this affair. You need to expose it today.write a letter to the school board and principal.
TODAY

mrkie,

Please take ALL their advice on exposure and no contact; ALL THEIR ADVICE PERIOD!! When I suspected my W was having an affair, I didn't know about this site. I exposed what I did know to very few people to avoid embarrassment in our small town. It didn't work. While I did demand no contact, I didn't demand a no contact letter. My W continued lying and the relationship (in one form or another) with the OM for almost 7 more years. Now our marriage/relationship is a huge mess. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE!!

Does she still see him at your kid's school events?

HDW - This has already been widely exposed both sides. Principal even told my wife she'd be trespassing if she set foot anywhere on school campus outside of office! OM is not at school on administrative leave. I agree if she refuses NC, she is still having the affair, although at this time it is an emotional affair.

BrainHurts - No, the kids sports ended last May, so she doesn't see him at any school events.

I am following what I read from this site for Plan A, to set a 6 month time limit, and then if there is no improvement turn her loose with nothing but memories of love and kindness left behind.

...she agrees she needs to take steps to repair marriage, but says she isn't ready for any steps yet.

Uhhh, dude, I think you've misplaced your man-marbles!

The wording in your note really means:

...she SAYS she needs to take steps to repair marriage, but she plans to delay and distract me long enough to renew her affair.

and what you should have been able to report is:

..she agrees she needs to take steps to repair marriage, and I told her she has until tomorrow to write the NCL as her first step, or I'll be contacting a lawyer and filing for divorce on the basis of adultery Monday.

You can't Plan A her at this time, friend, because the affair is NOT dead, at least in her squirrelly WW mind.

Let's make a bet: The clock starts now. You go ahead and "reason" with her into composing the NCL, and we'll time her! The over/under is "frickin' never". I'll take the "over".

If she refuses the no contact letter it is an active affair.
That is the first sign that the affair has not ended.
Did you also expose to your son?

Did you expose to your children?

I hate to do this, but some active and persuasive voices on this thread are giving confusing and conflicting advice.


This is NOT what Dr. Harley says in "Surviving an Affair" and on this site:

Dr. Harley:


Read this whole article (actually ch. 13 from HNHN's):

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html

From the way I read it, there are three steps that can be used to break up an affair when the WS is unwilling. The first step is exposure, then plan A, and finally plan B. All of these are strategies to end the affair.

RECOVERY cannot begin until the affair is over and no contact has been established for life. RECOVERY is different from plan A, it begins when both spouses are enthusiastically implementing all MB's principles into their relationship.

But yes, you can be in plan A when there is an active affair, in fact that is what it was designed for.

From what I've seen, mrkie has followed the proper steps, including a direct hit with exposure to OM's school and principal, and now is going to a strong plan A as Dr. Harley recommends.

And yet some are still telling him he is doing it wrong. No wonder new posters get confused!

schtoop - thanks so much for confirming. I read Dr. Harley's article as well and was using that as my guide.

Yes, exposure was also to our 4 children, first to the 15yr old boy, then to the 13yr old girl, then to the 11yr old boy & 8yr old girl together. So my wife had to go through telling it 3 times and watching their hearts break. Our 11yr old boy now has suicidal tendencies and is soon going for professional help. My wife is taking him so she can explain to the Dr. and show him the letter and graphic picture my son wrote to her.

I need Plan A support - keep strong/confident, no love busters, and struggle to push out angry thoughts that would only cause more conflict.

The first step is exposure, then plan A,

Fair enough, schtoop, no argument. The problem is that the Plan A I see here is another "stickless wonder", so in effect it translates into Plan Doormat (or Plan Cake-baker, your choice.)

She must be made aware that HE has the "Get Out Of Marriage Free" card, and is willing to use it, unless/until the affair is killed dead, with an NCL stake through its unnatural heart.

I'll agree (somewhat wistfully) that my "two day" deadline might have been a bit aggressive, but it was to make a point. When the BH has his foot on the throat of the affair, that is NOT the time to start playing fair.

Woman find men that are decisive and resolute attractive and desirable (so I've been told by my bride, and Melody Lane). BE THAT GUY is all that is being advocated here. "Whenever you get around to it, in your sweet time, and when you feel as 'one' with the NCL, sweetums," is NOT the model of the underlined characteristics.

Wow.

So she drives your son to suicidal tendencies and now gets to drive him to the doctor for treatment? That'd be a big "Hell No!" in my book. You need to go to that appointment as well. By herself, she'll downplay all of it to save her own skin to the detriment of your son's health. Without the true story, no medical personnel can adequately treat anything.

That you didn't completely blow your top with your WW upon learning of your son's thoughts is odd. She cheats on you, drives your son into a mental anguish and, well, what's the result? What is the consequence?

How have you verified NC? Keylogger, spyware on cell? Anything?

Your WW, it seems, believes that she has all of the time in the world to, maybe, stop the adultery. You would do well by informing her otherwise before you lose your momentum.

Hopefully, not for long.

x2

No way would I trust WW with a counselor. She could easily play it as "See what my horrible H did to our son" and all other sorts of spin. That is the LAST thing you need...some touchy feely counselor being sucked in to how horrible you are as a husband and father because you shouldn't have exposed, blah, blah I would strongly suggest you be present during these consults.

ETA: I would also talk to your boy privately about his anger and feelings.

So sorry for this. You will be going to the appointment with your son, correct? Was the OM his coach or one of your other DS?

Have you talked with your DS11 yourself? What does he say?

I am seeing the same Dr. the day before to give him the full story, show him my wife's letter, tell him about my son's behavior, tell him how my wife has been brainwashed by the OM into minimizing any impact.

The problem is that if I go with my son, she will opt out. I was hoping that her taking him the following day and talking to the Dr. would also open up the door for her to also get help at some point. She really needs help with issues from before the affair (rising independence/claustrophobia with marriage)

No the OM was not his coach.

Yes, I talk with all of my children one on one daily. My DS11 generally says he is so impatient and frustrated that there's nothing he can do to fix the situation. He wrote a very harsh letter to my wife with a picture of him stabbing himself, and has talked about doing that on several occasions. He's fine most of the time, but once a week hits that low spot right before bed and fortunately I detect it and we talk through it.

Are you on ADs?

So the OM didn't lose his job?

You've verified 100% NC between your WW and OM?

What are her top ENs? How are you doing with meeting them?

I know your Dday is recent and this is a hard pill for a BS to swallow but the sooner you accept this, the better...no OP brainwashes a WS. That is BS denial.





If she can't handle her own problems, why do you trust her to handle DS11's? DS11 may be upset during/after counseling. Are you really going to trust WW to act right and not fall apart with tears, guilt etc in front of him? He doesn't need that. I would strongly suggest you be present even if you don't say much and ensure your WW doesn't meltdown in front of your son.


Keep the lines of communication open with him. I know it is hard to hear and see your child struggling with feelings like that but I also think it is completely normal...sad and horrible but normal.

Prayers to you.

Your WW hasn't been brainwashed, mrkie. To say that she has been is to say that she was powerless to cheat on you. No. She did it on her own and was quite willing during the event.


Then let the baby stay home. Sheesh!

Go because your son needs you to go. It's obscene to say that your son will be going without his one sane parent so that the insane one can participate in his healthcare. She's done such a standup job so far in taking care of her family, right?

Besides, she won't be using the meeting get help for herself. If she wanted help for herself, she would pursue that on her own.

You need to go. You need to take charge of this.


Poor boundaries around men and allowing them to meet her ENs are the reason she had the affair. Not whatever bs she has fed you as the reason.

She's an adult, mrkie. Start treating her like one and not as some powerless toddler to didn't know what they were doing.

Are you afraid that she'll leave you if you hold her accountable for her (likely active) adultery?


And what is your WW doing about any of that?

What are you doing to ensure NC? Keylogger or spyware?

I agree. Your son is suicidal. It's bigger than just a squabble with you and your wife. This is much bigger than that, and includes your SON.

Get your marriage back.

I completely agree. You need I take him I all future doctor appointments.
She will convince the doctor it's YOUR fault and that will not help your custody case

You need to focus on killing this affair. Not on your wife's so called claustrophobia in marriage.

Quick side-note: What is this crap?? 'rising independence? claustrophobia with marriage??

Puh-leeze.

Get this affair killed. If you get her on board with Marriage Builders you'll find a sudden loss of the whole 'rising independence/claustrophobia' dealies. Where the heck did you hear those terms in the first place?? 'Rising independence'? 'Marital Claustrophobia'? HUH? Regular people don't talk like this, and these terms are not common-sense terms. Did some pschologist spout these to you?

I'm not 100% confident of NC, but she has been brutally honest about her interaction with him in the past when I've asked. How can I get spyware on her android phone when she has a screen pin that I don't know? I checked the FAQ for the recommended product in the other forum, and you need to be on the phone to download the software.

Ok, brainwashed may be a stretch but I used that because OM has a masters in psychology and she's reiterated what he's told her, that these situations happen often nowadays, everyone copes, kids are resilient, etc. That was a few weeks back.

I think, at this point you need to put your son in the number one spot of concern and you need to go to appointments with him. Don't not do this to strategize your wife's potential to do something later.

You need to let your son know that, yes, it is a mess right now BUT you are his ROCK. He may lean on you and you will be strong and support him and be completely reliable now and forever. That you love him deeply and will help him through this dreadful time. That you are his ROCK.

Then, be it.

You tell her that you need the PIN for the phone, that's how you get it. "Why, don't you trust me?!?" she'll say. "No, I don't, but your giving me that PIN will go a long way."

You're going to have to insist, because her having the passcode on it to begin with is a red flag. When she gets overly dramatic when you ask for it, you'll have your answer and will either have to stand your ground or cave.

Alternately, the phone has an accident and you get her a new phone with the latest "software" pre-installed.

Yea I would give the phone an accident and just get a new one with software ore installed

No AP/WS needs a Masters in Psychology to come up with that. That is typical wayward justification that we hear all the time on MB and in society in general. ICs and MCs even tell people this...which is why you have been warned about WW going to counseling. There are plenty of counselors that preach that crap so people don't feel guilty about destroying their families.

Does DS11 know he going to see a counselor? I still would not allow WW to take him alone. I hope you understand how that can blow up in your face and even further damage your son.