Marriage Builders
Posted By: JannaBella Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 05:47 PM
I found out my husband broke no contact with a woman he had an affair with. When I confronted him, he admitted to me that he had been talking to her by phone for months until just before Christmas. Claims just friends.......they were friends and coworkers before the affair.

Anyway, we moved and the contact info I had for her husband with whom Ive spoken before is in our old house. Trying to go on memory, I sent him emails to several addresses that came back undeliverable. Then I sent same message to his facebook email and sent him a friend request. Finally, I remembered and called his company and got put through to his number. He didnt answer, so I left a voicemail message telling him they were in contact again and we should talk. Gave him my email addresses.

That was yesterday. So far no answer to my email or facebook. Not sure where to go from here.

Even if he chose not to talk to me, I think he would confront her based on past history. In which case, she would probably be blowing up my husbands phone or calling to rant at me to stop contacting her H.

So....I'm thinking they are possibly out of town or he's off and not checking work voicemail. I'm so angry right now I want to call her and blast her but thats probably not smart.

I need some advice on next step. Thanks.

Janna

Posted By: Gamma Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 06:18 PM
Janna,

Be patient you will get to him, and you absolutely need to even if you have to drive to see the OWH. This is a major major breech of NC and resets your and OWHs recovery clock to zero. There's some chance the OWH found out and just gave up.

Can you find the OWs family, workplace, adult children?

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 06:25 PM
Okay, forget the OWH for a minute.

People who establish no-contact arrangements with their WS do themselves no service if the agreement stands on its own, What sanctions did you put in place for the almost-guaranteed violation by your besotted WS?

I'll bet "None", because had you properly established the infrastructure around the NC provision, you'd not be here asking "What do I do?" You'd already have your answer, and that would be to enact the sanctions previously set.

Okay, all that being prologue, your job now is to re-establish the NC state with some teeth in it.

How's this: "WH will delete his facebook account and provide you with passwords to all e-mail and texting services. He will arrange to have you have real-time cell usage oversight through the provider's website. If WH chooses to work hard at, and succeeds in, violating these agreements, he will move ot of the family home and expect divorce papers."

Whaddaya think?
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Janna,

even if you have to drive to see the OWH.

Can you find the OWs family, workplace, adult children?

God Bless
Gamma

Thanks for responding Gamma. I cant drive...we are 600 miles away. She has FB, Im still sorting out who is family...I know who the children are. I thought it would be best to talk to her BH before anyone else. Shes retired.

Janna
Posted By: Letty Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 08:06 PM
welcome to MB, janna. i'm sorry you find yourself here, but you are in the best place for help. did you know about MB when your H was having the a? or are the principles and basic concepts new to you?

how were you two handling recovery? have you read SAA by dr harley?

how long have you been married, and do you have any children? does your H still work with OW?

hang in there, janna. we'll get you sorted. smile
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 08:06 PM
Your husband has been in contact with his former affair partner for months, kept it hidden from you the entire time, and is now trying to defend his behavior by claiming it was innocent? I don't see how you can save the marriage if your husband refuses to follow the plan for recovery. I could be completely off base, but I'm thinking Plan B makes a lot of sense in this situation.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Okay, forget the OWH for a minute.

People who establish no-contact arrangements with their WS do themselves no service if the agreement stands on its own, What sanctions did you put in place for the almost-guaranteed violation by your besotted WS?

I'll bet "None", because had you properly established the infrastructure around the NC provision, you'd not be here asking "What do I do?" You'd already have your answer, and that would be to enact the sanctions previously set.

Okay, all that being prologue, your job now is to re-establish the NC state with some teeth in it.

How's this: "WH will delete his facebook account and provide you with passwords to all e-mail and texting services. He will arrange to have you have real-time cell usage oversight through the provider's website. If WH chooses to work hard at, and succeeds in, violating these agreements, he will move ot of the family home and expect divorce papers."

Whaddaya think?

NeverGuessed

Thanks. Clearly what we had in place for no contact was not enough. I was not familiar with MB at that time and was pretty much winging it. I do have passwords and nothing was going on there.

I didnt have the cell phone covered well enough, but was checking it from time to time and obviously that has to change. He says she contacted him several times, left messages, wanted to let him know she was retiring blah blah and he finally called her back. I know I cant trust him but I do tend to believe him on this.

For now the cell phone is laying on the kitchen counter and he is avoiding it like its radioactive for a week now.

Anyway, I agree with what you said and this is what I need to hear. Since I didnt do things exactly right on my own its a little confusing what steps to take this time.

Its been almost four years since their affair ended. I thought we were past this crap and I dont trust my own instincts right now because I am swinging back and forth between rage and pain.

Thanks for the advice.

Janna

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by Letty
welcome to MB, janna. i'm sorry you find yourself here, but you are in the best place for help. did you know about MB when your H was having the a? or are the principles and basic concepts new to you?

how were you two handling recovery? have you read SAA by dr harley?

how long have you been married, and do you have any children? does your H still work with OW?

hang in there, janna. we'll get you sorted. smile

Letty,

I didnt know about MB. I've been reading on the site for a few months.

We've been married 28 years. No children together...4 grown children from his first marriage. The OW as well as my H and myself are retired. The three of us worked at the same place.

I ordered SAA.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Your husband has been in contact with his former affair partner for months, kept it hidden from you the entire time, and is now trying to defend his behavior by claiming it was innocent? I don't see how you can save the marriage if your husband refuses to follow the plan for recovery. I could be completely off base, but I'm thinking Plan B makes a lot of sense in this situation.

Jessica

He initially tried to claim it was innocent....just the resumption of the friendship they had before their A. That was said to avoid my wrath and I guess as an attempt to keep himself out of trouble. Obviously, ridulous.

He has since said he knows its wrong, apologized, expressed remorse etc.

Janna
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 09:05 PM
He has since said he knows its wrong, apologized, expressed remorse etc.

Good! While he's still reeling - get him to sign the NC agreement YOU want going forward.
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/18/13 09:32 PM
When you discovered the affair 4 yrs ago, did you expose it to family, friends, clergy, the workplace, OW's family, etc.? If not, I think you should tell everyone now, making it clear that your husband and the other woman have secretly reestablished contact during the past few months. If you did expose the affair 4 yrs ago, I would still update everyone about the reestablished contact.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
When you discovered the affair 4 yrs ago, did you expose it to family, friends, clergy, the workplace, OW's family, etc.? If not, I think you should tell everyone now, making it clear that your husband and the other woman have secretly reestablished contact during the past few months. If you did expose the affair 4 yrs ago, I would still update everyone about the reestablished contact.

Jessica

I did not expose exactly per MB principles, but I did tell some people. Also, OW BS had pics of them together and identified my H by talking to one of our coworkers, so people knew. Should I expose to others before I can speak to OW BS?
I am going to try to reach him again at work on Monday.

Janna
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 01:08 AM
How did his first marriage end?
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 01:21 AM
WalkinForward

He filed for D. According to him they had problems for years and the straw that broke the camels back for him was her getting pregnant(he believes intentionally) when they had agreed no more kids.

He said they were separated more than they were married. There were affairs, on both their parts, but I believe they happened while they were separated and not sure they saw them as A.

They got M very young and at least per my H because it seemed the thing to do after dating for a long time.

Janna
Posted By: Gamma Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 01:32 AM
Janabell,

One thing to recognize is that affairs are addictions, and just like an alcoholic can never go to a bar, your WH can never contact OW. Dr Harley called it "an irrational attraction" on one of his radio programs. This is why the response to an affair often has to be as intense as the affair itself.

I think reading up on the experiences of others here on MB will help you set you mind to a definite purpose and course of action.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 01:39 AM
How long had he been divorced when you married him? How many women were there between his divorce and you?

How old were his children when you both married, and how often did they share time with you both?
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 01:42 AM
My sense here is he has been wayward most of his adult life, hence his extraordinary precautions need to be rock solid tight, and if he won't agree you should go straight into Plan B, and prepare for Divorce.

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
How long had he been divorced when you married him? How many women were there between his divorce and you?

How old were his children when you both married, and how often did they share time with you both?


He was divorced about two years when I married him. There were a couple of women he was involved with while he was waiting for his D to be final. The kids were about 12,11,7 and 2. We lived in a different state and he allowed his ex to take them back to his home state. So we at first once a month, weeks at holidays and summer; later we moved to same state and they were with us weekly.

Janna
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 03:17 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
When you discovered the affair 4 yrs ago, did you expose it to family, friends, clergy, the workplace, OW's family, etc.? If not, I think you should tell everyone now, making it clear that your husband and the other woman have secretly reestablished contact during the past few months. If you did expose the affair 4 yrs ago, I would still update everyone about the reestablished contact.

Jessica

I did not expose exactly per MB principles, but I did tell some people. Also, OW BS had pics of them together and identified my H by talking to one of our coworkers, so people knew. Should I expose to others before I can speak to OW BS?
I am going to try to reach him again at work on Monday.

Janna

Regardless of which plan you choose to implement, I would immediately do a full exposure & update everyone on the reestablished contact.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
My sense here is he has been wayward most of his adult life, hence his extraordinary precautions need to be rock solid tight, and if he won't agree you should go straight into Plan B, and prepare for Divorce.

WalkinForward

Thats a good assessment......my H himself has said he always had a "back up" plan.

At this point Im not sure there are enough EP to make me feel safe with him.

And it just enrages me that this OW will not go away. She doesnt know that she was one of many while my H and I were separated. My instinct is to contact her and fill her in on the sordid details of what she apparently thinks was her grand romance with him.

I will Plan B if I need to, but Im not sure thats the best thing at the moment. He would go back to our other house to live and I think we have a better shot at working on this if he is 600 miles away from her instead of 5.

Janna
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 01:15 PM
You need to expose this far and wide
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 02:22 PM
Below is the message I plan to send to expose. Feedback? Is this ok? -- Janna


I am sending you this message as a family member or friend of OW. You may already know, that OW had an A with my H. He ended their A and we have worked very hard to recover our M from the destruction the A caused. Despite this, OW continues to contact my H in an attempt to "be his friend". If you have any influence over OW, please urge her to respect her own H and M and stop intruding in mine. Thanks.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 03:55 PM
Another question....should I have my H send a no contact letter to OW or just expose? Thanks.

Janna
Posted By: Darkguy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 04:00 PM
I would send a NC letter written by you both and have a restraining order sent to her as well. Show this skank you mean business.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
I would send a NC letter written by you both and have a restraining order sent to her as well. Show this skank you mean business.

TranquilDark

Thats interesting advice..so you mean one NC from both or separate NC from each of us. Why do you suggest this?

As for the RO, how can I do that if H allowed contact. Also, does anyone know if I would have to do that in my state or hers?

Janna
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 06:57 PM
Yes he has very poor boundaries around women, and by the looks of it is a serial cheater.

Posted By: Darkguy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 07:05 PM
You and your hubby right the letter and your husband gets a RO against her if he doesn't agree to that you should look into plan B
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/19/13 09:38 PM
If they haven't sent a NC letter yet, how could they get a restraining order at this point? Don't they have to send a NC letter first, and then wait and see if OW violates it? If OW repeatedly violates their written request for NC, that would give them grounds for filing a restraining order. Correct?
Posted By: Darkguy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 12:16 AM
Your correct I thought a NCL was done.
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 12:48 AM
...by the looks of it is a serial cheater.

Really, WF? Why would you say that?

...my H himself has said he always had a "back up" plan.

Oh, yeah, there's that.

So, as he was exchanging vows with you, JB, how extensive were his backup plans? This goes so far beyond the range of wayward paths to infidelity, that I worry that the "nest of snakes" in WH's head might never be dislodged.
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 01:36 AM
Are you still in love with your husband?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Below is the message I plan to send to expose. Feedback? Is this ok? -- Janna


I am sending you this message as a family member or friend of OW. You may already know, that OW had an A with my H. He ended their A and we have worked very hard to recover our M from the destruction the A caused. Despite this, OW continues to contact my H in an attempt to "be his friend". If you have any influence over OW, please urge her to respect her own H and M and stop intruding in mine. Thanks.
Have you read this Exposure 101 ?

There are Facebook exposure templates in there and a NC letter sample also.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
Yes he has very poor boundaries around women, and by the looks of it is a serial cheater.

Correct....on both the boundaries and the serial cheating. My H was horrifically abused as a child......a secret he kept from me or anyone else and carried alone until about 5 years ago. He always used sex to tamp down the pain of the shame, humiliation and rage that ate at him.

Plus, he has boundary issues in general from having his own boundaries so violated.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
...by the looks of it is a serial cheater.

Really, WF? Why would you say that?

...my H himself has said he always had a "back up" plan.

Oh, yeah, there's that.

So, as he was exchanging vows with you, JB, how extensive were his backup plans? This goes so far beyond the range of wayward paths to infidelity, that I worry that the "nest of snakes" in WH's head might never be dislodged.

There was no one else when we married. You may be correct re the "next of snakes", but I am not ready to give up. He has faced and overcome many things in order to stay married to me. He has more work to do...

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Are you still in love with your husband?

yes, I'm hurt and angry with him and not feeling much love right now, but I am in love with him and the one thing I am always sure of is that he loves me.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Below is the message I plan to send to expose. Feedback? Is this ok? -- Janna


I am sending you this message as a family member or friend of OW. You may already know, that OW had an A with my H. He ended their A and we have worked very hard to recover our M from the destruction the A caused. Despite this, OW continues to contact my H in an attempt to "be his friend". If you have any influence over OW, please urge her to respect her own H and M and stop intruding in mine. Thanks.
Have you read this Exposure 101 ?

There are Facebook exposure templates in there and a NC letter sample also.

Thanks Brain Hurts....I've read these in the past but need to relook at them.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 08:06 PM
I am rewriting what I want to say re exposure. Slow...because H is constantly around and also since this started, son is now on way to visit. Trying to time things so it doesnt totally blow up his visit.

OW used some "social engineering" to get H number. She had a male friend who was a former subordinate of H contact our son who works where we all worked before. Under the pretense of getting a recommendation from H and son gave him the number.

Is it ok to include this info in exposure

Janna
Posted By: Darkguy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/20/13 09:07 PM
I believe so but wait for other responses.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/21/13 04:07 PM
Overnight I have become a basket case.

OW H has still not contacted me. I think they must be out of town as their is no FB activity on either page for over a week. His company appears to be closed due to the holiday. But, he's in an exec position and its hard for me to believe he hasnt picked up his work voicemail once during this time. Does anyone know if messages drop off those systems after a period of time?

Also, I am rethinking exposure or at least exposure with a lot of details. I no longer have proof of anything except the most recent contact. OW is a bully and very vindictive. I know most think its unlikely, but if anyone would sue for defamation of character it would be her and she lives in a place where these types of bull crap suits are common and lawyers lined up to take them.

Exposure to her FB list is literally going to expand to hundreds if not thousands of people across the country and through the grapevine of a very large organization to almost everyone any of us have know for over 30 years. I know her and she is not going to take that sitting down. I am very stressed that this truly nuclear explosion will cause a huge nuclear blow back on me.

My instinct is to wait until I can speak to her BH. I am so confused and afraid of making the wrong move in the mental state I am in right now.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/21/13 04:09 PM
PS this exposure is also going to reach other OW by virtue of all the connections and Im afraid its going to bring all of them out of the woodwork in a panic that I will do the same thing to them. Just not sure its worth that.

Janna
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/21/13 05:10 PM
don't let anything about ow throw you off, so what if she is a bully, you don't need to read anything take any calls, you revealed the truth nothing more.
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/21/13 05:32 PM
See, now, here is where NG is at a HUGE disadvantage.

If JB were a BH, as opposed to a BW, I could be more forthright and rigorous with her.

- I could tell her to screw her courage in place and ignore any "retaliation" from OW, as what would be happening would not be "defamation", but "confirmation" of OW's character.

- I would point out that OW will fulminate, but the LAST thing she would want would be having to testify under oath about her affair with JB's WH.

- I would point out that exposure will include OW's BH, so that would be all the discussion needed.

But I can do none of this because inevitably it comes across as NG bullying a hurting BW. Would one of the female colleagues here please take the lead? Thanx!
Posted By: Gamma Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/21/13 06:14 PM
JannaBell,

PS this exposure is also going to reach other OW by virtue of all the connections and Im afraid its going to bring all of them out of the woodwork in a panic that I will do the same thing to them. Just not sure its worth that.

Are these OW your WHs exOW???

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/21/13 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
JannaBell,

PS this exposure is also going to reach other OW by virtue of all the connections and Im afraid its going to bring all of them out of the woodwork in a panic that I will do the same thing to them. Just not sure its worth that.

Are these OW your WHs exOW???

God Bless
Gamma

Yes, a couple of them were side pieces to the OW Im now dealing with. The others are pretty ancient history.

Janna
Posted By: Letty Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/21/13 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
See, now, here is where NG is at a HUGE disadvantage.

If JB were a BH, as opposed to a BW, I could be more forthright and rigorous with her.

- I could tell her to screw her courage in place and ignore any "retaliation" from OW, as what would be happening would not be "defamation", but "confirmation" of OW's character.

- I would point out that OW will fulminate, but the LAST thing she would want would be having to testify under oath about her affair with JB's WH.

- I would point out that exposure will include OW's BH, so that would be all the discussion needed.

But I can do none of this because inevitably it comes across as NG bullying a hurting BW. Would one of the female colleagues here please take the lead? Thanx!

here ya go, NG. i totally agree! what OW thinks/feels/believes doesn't matter. and how she responds is only of help to you! do not worry about fallout from exposure - it is what you WANT.

OP, you need to reestablish NC, first and foremost, so we can get you into a solid plan for your M. have you already sent the FB exposure letter you posted? if not, we may have some suggestions for it. if so, that's ok. i hope you are able to reach OWH.

ps: defamation of character requires you to be LYING about her. i'd say "go ahead and sue me." she'd be laughed out of court. sample testimony:

judge: you say that BW has defamed you. how has she done so?

OW: she told people that i had an affair with her husband and was still contacting him.

judge: did you have an affair with her H? you are under oath.

OW: well, i only slept with him x times. that's not really an *affair.*

judge: did you contact him after he (had NC)?

OW: but i only called him on the *phone* a few times as a *friend.*

judge, bailiff, lawyers, gallery: LMAO!

judge: case dismissed!
Posted By: Gamma Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 01:04 AM
Janna,

Yes, a couple of them were side pieces to the OW Im now dealing with. The others are pretty ancient history

Did you ever think your WH is a serial cheater? Which can mean that your WH is not just addicted to one particular woman, but addicted to having affairs in general.

Did you consider giving your WH a polygraph?

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 02:31 AM
I was in a similar situation ~ 10 months after recovery I discovered they were still in contact. Here is what I did:

1.) EXPOSE with no warning whatsoever to your H or the OW. This is crucial; no excuses.

Have your H write the NC letter but YOU send it. It is up to you but we decided together that I was not going to sign the NC letter because we did not want the OW to falsely believe I was "forcing" my H to write the letter. She is delusional enough as it is, we did not want her delusions to lead her to believe I was behind the letter. H wrote it all on his own and I ok'ed it and mailed it. We decided on this together.

If your H refuses to immediately enact EVERY possible EP (Extraordinary Precautions) such as changing and/or deleting every phone number, cell phone number, email address and anyotherpossibleway she is able to contact him, I suggest IMMEDIATELY and SWIFTLY going to Plan B (there is a How-To-Plan-B-Correctly sticky around here that I wrote and will describe in detail how to prep for Plan B).

Do not give him much time to think about whether or not he is willing to do these things. If he falters at all, PLAN B. This is a no-brainer and non-negotiable.

Do they still work together?

Posted By: MarriedForever Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 02:32 AM
How many OWs does your H have???
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Janna,

Yes, a couple of them were side pieces to the OW Im now dealing with. The others are pretty ancient history

Did you ever think your WH is a serial cheater? Which can mean that your WH is not just addicted to one particular woman, but addicted to having affairs in general.

Did you consider giving your WH a polygraph?

God Bless
Gamma

Yes Gamma ....he was serial cheater. I explained that above. At the moment I dont feel the need for a polygraph because I dont think hes lying to me.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
How many OWs does your H have???

There were about 10. I dont remember exactly and dont have the list here.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 03:33 AM
Married Forever

Had you exposed originally or just when you discovered the renewed contact? I didnt see a template that fit that sitch. Do you by any chance have language for that?

Janna
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
How many OWs does your H have???

There were about 10. I dont remember exactly and dont have the list here.

Janna

He is a serial cheater with a lot of baggage. Are you sure you want to try to recover? This is going to be much harder and with much more risk than even a 2-3 affair-serial-cheater. Just want to make sure you know what you are up against.

What kind of remorse is he exhibiting? To be honest I wouldn't attempt recovery unless he is exhibiting serious, mind-boggling, crawling-on-the-ground-begging-for-another-chance remorse. He is going to be harder to crack than most.

I would absolutely add doing the MB online program as part of the non-negotiable criteria to even ATTEMPT recovery with him again. He has this down pat and he is going to need serious accountability in order to end his addiction with affairs.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 03:48 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Married Forever

Had you exposed originally or just when you discovered the renewed contact? I didnt see a template that fit that sitch. Do you by any chance have language for that?

Janna

I had only exposed to a small handful of people the first time because I did not know about MB. When I found out the 2nd time I went balls-out, nuclear exposure. I exposed to both H's entire family, my family and all of our close friends. I also exposed to the message board where they me,t and to the entire faculty at the school where OW works. I asked for everyone's help in putting pressure on them to knock it off and to give our family a chance. I then went straight to a pitch dark Plan B for 6 weeks and we have been in recovery/recovered for almost 6 years now.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 04:44 AM
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
How many OWs does your H have???

There were about 10. I dont remember exactly and dont have the list here.

Janna

He is a serial cheater with a lot of baggage. Are you sure you want to try to recover? This is going to be much harder and with much more risk than even a 2-3 affair-serial-cheater. Just want to make sure you know what you are up against.

What kind of remorse is he exhibiting? To be honest I wouldn't attempt recovery unless he is exhibiting serious, mind-boggling, crawling-on-the-ground-begging-for-another-chance remorse. He is going to be harder to crack than most.

I would absolutely add doing the MB online program as part of the non-negotiable criteria to even ATTEMPT recovery with him again. He has this down pat and he is going to need serious accountability in order to end his addiction with affairs.

MarriedForever

I am pretty clear on what we are dealing with. He is very remorseful but he also still has some foggy spots in his understanding of what we are dealing with.

He has worked very hard to put our M back together. What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)

I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation.

Janna
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 04:49 AM
an aside to MarriedForever - that WAS THE most amazing exposure, EVER that I got to witness! WH, OW freaking, pleading for sympathy, then running for the hills! An amazing all-out assault on the affair, if ever there was one!

To Janna -

You're sure you're getting the truth now? How hard is he working to win you back? Is he even breaking a sweat? If he's not absolutely convinced that you're done, he will cheat again. And he still might, unless you're letting him do 100% of the investing in you, and your family for a very very long time.

I know what remorse looks like in a wayward-in-the-process-of-reforming. And I don't see it nearly as much as the betrayed spouse wants to believe it's real. Not even by a fraction.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 05:03 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by MarriedForever
How many OWs does your H have???

There were about 10. I dont remember exactly and dont have the list here.

Janna

He is a serial cheater with a lot of baggage. Are you sure you want to try to recover? This is going to be much harder and with much more risk than even a 2-3 affair-serial-cheater. Just want to make sure you know what you are up against.

What kind of remorse is he exhibiting? To be honest I wouldn't attempt recovery unless he is exhibiting serious, mind-boggling, crawling-on-the-ground-begging-for-another-chance remorse. He is going to be harder to crack than most.

I would absolutely add doing the MB online program as part of the non-negotiable criteria to even ATTEMPT recovery with him again. He has this down pat and he is going to need serious accountability in order to end his addiction with affairs.

MarriedForever

I am pretty clear on what we are dealing with. He is very remorseful but he also still has some foggy spots in his understanding of what we are dealing with.

He has worked very hard to put our M back together. What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)

I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation.

Janna



IMHO, your H SHOULD be humiliated by what he's done. As you well know, lots of people suffer abuse as children and choose not to abuse others; your H could have chosen the same.

Instead he chose to abuse you, over and over. After all the work you have done, he COULD have chosen many things other than responding to the OW's contact: he could have told you what had happened, he could have immediately made it impossible for her to ever contact him again, he could have done a LOT of things other than hide it and not let you know. That is not a sign of recovery, that is a sign that he wants to keep his options open for continued affairs.

Unfortunately, when dealing with a serial cheater I think the WORST thing you could do is to keep it a secret. If you truly want to help him, then do what's been proven to end affairs IMMEDIATELY and FOR GOOD. He needs your helps and this is the best way for you to help him: expose this. He needs to know the world is watching him, it's his only hope to stay faithful. He has done this way too many times for you to even consider NOT doing it.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 05:05 AM
Quote
an aside to MarriedForever - that WAS THE most amazing exposure, EVER that I got to witness! WH, OW freaking, pleading for sympathy, then running for the hills! An amazing all-out assault on the affair, if ever there was one!

Yes, it was a good one and I wish we still had record of it from where I exposed....my MB thread is still here but the coolrunning thread that I exposed to is gone and that was the best part, LOL.

Actually the best part was that my exposure WORKED!
Posted By: Letty Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 05:05 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by Gamma
Janna,

Yes, a couple of them were side pieces to the OW Im now dealing with. The others are pretty ancient history

Did you ever think your WH is a serial cheater? Which can mean that your WH is not just addicted to one particular woman, but addicted to having affairs in general.

Did you consider giving your WH a polygraph?

God Bless
Gamma

Yes Gamma ....he was serial cheater. I explained that above. At the moment I dont feel the need for a polygraph because I dont think hes lying to me.

Janna

serial cheats are ingrained liars. here's a quick test (and i'm not being a smarty pants) is his mouth moving? trust nothing a wayward says unless you can verify it. this means if WH says it's sunny out, you gotta step outside and have a look.

janna, i'm not trying to be mean about it. i'm just saying that WH has a long history and fully ingrained habit of lying. if you decide to recover the M, you will have to verify. the good news is that verification will help create trust in your new relationship together, so don't discount it.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 05:55 PM
Janna, I am sorry you are here, welcome. You have already gotten great advice but there are things that jumped out at me that I would like to emphasize.

First, I would read the articles on this site and make sure you know this program well. Part of the reason you have never recovered your M and actually suffered MORE abuse at the hands of your WH is because you were basically doing things that Dr Harley would NEVER advise you to do.

Like
~ avoiding exposure (already has been covered by MF, she was spot on)

~ have a wayward spouse go to counseling to explore their childhood issues. No, no, no. This is not only a waste of time but can have disasterous results because it gives the WS a reason to make excuses for their poor choices -- when they should be taking personal responsibility for their actions

~ not implementing EPs. It is very clear if he has had that many affairs the CONDITIONS that made his affairs possible were never eliminated. The more affairs = more EPs that must be put into place. You need to tell us more about his 10 affairs so that we can help you develop an EP plan (who the OW was, how they met and how they conducted the affair, email, phone)

More to come...
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)

I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation.

Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK?

Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable..

Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/22/13 06:13 PM
Regarding the comment that you believe what your WH is telling you now...

Your WH has a long standing (years) history of having a SSL (secret second life). The way that Dr Harley describes this (dishonesty) is that it becomes a bad habit, one that is difficult to break.

He has never given his SSL up. This is part of the reason that he has remained foggy. Poly is a great first step to him giving the SSL up.

I am very sorry to tell you that I am CERTAIN there is more that he is hiding. That is the MO of a serial cheater, nevermind a serial cheater as many affairs as your WH.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/23/13 03:29 AM
Great posts, Susie!
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 07:45 PM
I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. Im sorry if it seemed you took time to write to me and I stopped responding.

My H is basically around 24/7 and its difficult for me to spy, type here and prepare NC and exposure letters without arousing his suspicions as to what Im doing. We also have houseguests.

I have some time now and am going to go back and respond to posts I havent responded to.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by jessitaylor
don't let anything about ow throw you off, so what if she is a bully, you don't need to read anything take any calls, you revealed the truth nothing more.

Jessi

Its not so much about throwing me off although the last time I had an encounter with her ranting at me on the phone it made me ill for a while.

My main concern is the truth part. I no longer have any proof of the affair other than the most recent contact. She would lie under oath if it suited her IMO.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
To Janna -

You're sure you're getting the truth now? How hard is he working to win you back? Is he even breaking a sweat?

Kayla

It appears theres some discrepancy between his version and my sources about who contacted who first as I kind of suspected there would be as his version of events didnt make much sense. I havent confronted him on this yet as I just figured it out a few minutes ago.

Janna

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by Letty
serial cheats are ingrained liars. here's a quick test (and i'm not being a smarty pants) is his mouth moving? trust nothing a wayward says unless you can verify it. this means if WH says it's sunny out, you gotta step outside and have a look.

janna, i'm not trying to be mean about it. i'm just saying that WH has a long history and fully ingrained habit of lying. if you decide to recover the M, you will have to verify. the good news is that verification will help create trust in your new relationship together, so don't discount it.

Letty

I will be verifying. I am pretty good at reading my Husband's tells when he lies.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:27 PM
From SusieQ

You need to tell us more about his 10 affairs so that we can help you develop an EP plan (who the OW was, how they met and how they conducted the affair, email, phone)


Not sure I can give specifics from memory for each one. Most of them were workplace A. A couple were neighbors he had when we were separated.

My H is basically a cheater of convenience and opportunity. I.E, unless he changes radically he never went out of his way to find partners....like going to bars or dating sites, etc.

He used email to a minor extent, but mainly phone or personal contact he had at work.

A lot of them hardly even qualify as A in the conventional sense. More like him letting women who were weak, insecure and messed up(most of them fit this mold) cry on his shoulder about their problems/relationships and then getting them to give him oral sex or a quickie in his car.

Janna


Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by JannaBella
What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)

I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation.

Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK?

Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable..

Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior.

SusieQ

Sorry if I was unclear. My H was abusive....mainly emotionally and verbally...once physically. That however, is past history.

I am not afraid of him. He went through a lot of counseling by himself to address his own childhood abuse and also how he was abusing me.

I thought I explained before, but maybe it wasnt clear. His abuse was in fact the reason I separated from him before.

Janna
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:38 PM
Janna ... your posts make no sense.

Your WH is a raging lunatic of a serial cheater and has been for what Four decades?

Yet you write on this forum on how you know when he is telling the truth, that he won't do this no more, and that you feel you can save this marriage now?

I am sorry but this makes no sense. There is not one action he is doing that says he isn't anything except a raging lunatic of a wayward.

Run Janna Run ... your mental state scares me.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
My H is basically a cheater of convenience and opportunity. I.E, unless he changes radically he never went out of his way to find partners....like going to bars or dating sites, etc.

All cheaters are the same -- they didn't close their LB$ to members of the opposite sex. Your WH most definitely chases women -- it doesn't matter that it doesn't happen in a bar.

It sounds like working with the opposite sex is a major issue for your WH -- not only is this where he is hooking up with women but it is how he conducts his affair even with non work affair partners.

Dr Harley basically told me that my ex would probably have to work at home with me or get a job that doesn't involve him working with the OS. I believe the advice would probably be the same for your WH.
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:48 PM
A lot of them hardly even qualify as A in the conventional sense. More like him letting women who were weak, insecure and messed up...cry on his shoulder...and then getting them to give him oral sex or a quickie in his car.

Uhhhhh, okay then. I guess your definition of an affair requires psychologically well-grounded partners, wined, dined, and flowered? Have you read ANYTHING on this site?
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
Janna ... your posts make no sense.

Your WH is a raging lunatic of a serial cheater and has been for what Four decades?

Yet you write on this forum on how you know when he is telling the truth, that he won't do this no more, and that you feel you can save this marriage now?

I am sorry but this makes no sense. There is not one action he is doing that says he isn't anything except a raging lunatic of a wayward.

Run Janna Run ... your mental state scares me.

wow...I dont think thats what I said at all. I said I know his tells(the physical things he does) when he lies. I have some professional training in that. Does that mean I know every time he lies...no....because it requires me to pay very careful attention and when Im emotional I dont always remember to do that.

Janna
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by JannaBella
What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)

I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation.

Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK?

Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable..

Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior.

SusieQ

Sorry if I was unclear. My H was abusive....mainly emotionally and verbally...once physically. That however, is past history.

I am not afraid of him. He went through a lot of counseling by himself to address his own childhood abuse and also how he was abusing me.

I thought I explained before, but maybe it wasnt clear. His abuse was in fact the reason I separated from him before.

Janna

Huh?

Going to therapy to explore his childhood issues that caused him to rage at you doesn't like he ever took the proper steps to address his anger issues. Plus you basically said you are afraid to anger him.

It seems like you wanted to use the anger issues to avoid exposure but then when pressed, you are telling us there is no more anger issues. You can't have it both ways
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by JannaBella
My H is basically a cheater of convenience and opportunity. I.E, unless he changes radically he never went out of his way to find partners....like going to bars or dating sites, etc.

All cheaters are the same -- they didn't close their LB$ to members of the opposite sex. Your WH most definitely chases women -- it doesn't matter that it doesn't happen in a bar.

It sounds like working with the opposite sex is a major issue for your WH -- not only is this where he is hooking up with women but it is how he conducts his affair even with non work affair partners.

Dr Harley basically told me that my ex would probably have to work at home with me or get a job that doesn't involve him working with the OS. I believe the advice would probably be the same for your WH.

SusieQ......I wasnt describing how he got involved to say it was somehow less offensive than going to a bar to search them out. Was just describing his MO. Hes a lazy cheater....

In any case, hes retired so Im not sure what the EP would be.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by JannaBella
What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)

I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation.

Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK?

Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable..

Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior.

SusieQ

Sorry if I was unclear. My H was abusive....mainly emotionally and verbally...once physically. That however, is past history.

I am not afraid of him. He went through a lot of counseling by himself to address his own childhood abuse and also how he was abusing me.

I thought I explained before, but maybe it wasnt clear. His abuse was in fact the reason I separated from him before.

Janna

Huh?

Going to therapy to explore his childhood issues that caused him to rage at you doesn't like he ever took the proper steps to address his anger issues. Plus you basically said you are afraid to anger him.

It seems like you wanted to use the anger issues to avoid exposure but then when pressed, you are telling us there is no more anger issues. You can't have it both ways

He doesnt direct anger at me abusively anymore and I dont think he would no matter what I do. But Im pretty sure he would just walk out if he felt he was out of control.

That being said, I think theres a strong possibility that if I expose it will trigger his old issues. You learn how to cope in spite of old wounds, that doesnt mean they go away.

My concern is more practical im my mind. If he walks out he will go to our other house. Right now we are 600 miles away from the OW he broke NC with and their A ended 5 years ago. Why would I do something that could provoke him to move back to a house thats 5 miles away from her? That seems patently stupid to me.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
A lot of them hardly even qualify as A in the conventional sense. More like him letting women who were weak, insecure and messed up...cry on his shoulder...and then getting them to give him oral sex or a quickie in his car.

Uhhhhh, okay then. I guess your definition of an affair requires psychologically well-grounded partners, wined, dined, and flowered? Have you read ANYTHING on this site?

NG...not sure what your point is. What I was trying to convey was my Husbands MO as was asked by someone. They were A...but most of them were mainly about sex for him. The OW that he broke NC with was in his words him "trying to have a relationship with her because I didnt think I could make things work out with you." He was also seeing some of the other parking lot hos on the side. I am just trying to fill in the details....not minimizing them. And, yes Ive read a lot here in the past few months.

Janna
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 10:54 PM
So most of his affairs happened at work and now he's retired?

Do you still work? Did he use his cell or home computer to engage in his affair activities? Where did he have SF with them? Are you guys ever apart overnight?

Just trying to figure out what needs to be done to set up his EPs.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 10:58 PM
This is my second draft of exposure letter...It seems long, but I couldnt find template to fit exact situation and combined a couple.

OW friends and family

I am sending you this message as a friend or family member of OW. Some of you know that OW had an A with my H.

She came into my home to conduct this sordid A with my H while I was out of town or met him in his car by the railroad tracks after Thurs night bowling. When my H and I separated the A continued. Her H contacted me to inform me he had pictures of the two of them embracing.

Facing a divorce filed by her H, she began pressuring my H to divorce me live with her. At that point, my H decided he wanted to reconcile our M.

We have been have been working to restore our M for the last five years. Unfortunately, I have recently become aware that OW and my H are once again in contact.

I am not willing to tolerate a "friendship" that has previously caused so much destruction to both of our families. If you have any influence over OW, I hope you will urge her to respect her own H and marriage and stay out of mine.

I also wanted to make sure that those of you who have her around your husbands, know exactly what kind of person she is.

Take care
Janna

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
[/color]So most of his affairs happened at work and now he's retired? T[color:#FF0000]Thats correct.

Do you still work? No, neither of us work.

Did he use his cell or home computer to engage in his affair activities? yes


Where did he have SF with them?

car, workplace a few times, our house once, their houses at lunch time, of course when we were separated he had his own apartment and most of it was there.

Are you guys ever apart overnight? not now; we both used to travel some

Just trying to figure out what needs to be done to set up his EPs.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 11:15 PM
A little humor ......for once my H is away for the whole day(with someone I trust to keep him straight so I wasnt really worried) and I know beyone a shadow of a doubt he is where he says he is, doing what he should be doing, and behaving himself.

I am verifying of course.....by watching him on tv at an event that is televised locally.

Maybe his EP should just be to have a camera attached whereever he goes lol.

Janna
Posted By: Gamma Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 11:16 PM
Janna,

Actually if you keep the paragraphs short as you have it seems easy to read good job.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 11:17 PM
The man has to radically change his life because he knows he can walk all over Janna ... he has no need to change.

It has been the Wild Wild West in his life for decades.

He has to give up everything ... cell phone, computer, vehicle, free time, all travel, any place he can get a fix. Janna would need to be with him almost 24/7 ...

I say email Dr. Harley ... your WH will need to counsel extensively with someone who will hold him accountable.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/24/13 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
The man has to radically change his life because he knows he can walk all over Janna ... he has no need to change.

I dont agree that he knows or thinks that. I am quite sure he is alternating between thinking Im letting this go and wondering when/how the other shoe will drop.

It has been the Wild Wild West in his life for decades.

thats pretty accurate

He has to give up everything ... cell phone, computer, vehicle, free time, all travel, any place he can get a fix. Janna would need to be with him almost 24/7 ...

I dont think that will work or that I want to live that way. There is a way around almost all these things anyway.

I say email Dr. Harley ... your WH will need to counsel extensively with someone who will hold him accountable.

This is what I have been thinking myself. This is what worked when he addressed his own issues and the issues of abusing me.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/25/13 12:11 AM
Another interesting development.....one of the side OW (i think she was a one night stand) sent a friend request on FB to H yesterday. He deleted the email notification and did nothing on FB...if hes even been in there. I deleted it and blocked her. Then I sent her a friend request from my FB. We were actually friendly...not friends at one point long ago. She hasnt responded to me....no surprise. I think I may have actually caused this by going to her page with husbands page thereby making him pop up as someone she knows. Not sure. In any case, no indication he has been in contact w/her by phone or email.

The OW he has recently been in contact with changed her FB name to a hyphenated name using her maiden-married name today. She's never used that name in the 20+ years Ive known her and I cant think of any reason to unless youre trying to make sure people you knew before marriage can contact you?

Her BS has not returned any of my contacts. He added a couple of friends but didnt respond to my request. No answer to my email to FB or my voicemail. I didnt try again because we have guests and I didnt want her calling here ranting about me contacting him like she did last time. Will try tomorrow and see what if anything he knows. Im not entirely confident he saw or picked up my messages.

I dont know what if anything any of this means. Just recording it for future reference.

Janna

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/25/13 12:13 AM
That reminds me. I have a technical question about facebook.

Can I message more than one person at a time? There are 80 people on her friends list. Do they have to go one at a time?

Thanks.

Janna
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/25/13 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
That reminds me. I have a technical question about facebook.

Can I message more than one person at a time? There are 80 people on her friends list. Do they have to go one at a time?

Thanks.

Janna
Space them out at least 3 min apart. You may get temporarily shutdown, so make sure you prioritize her list with family first and married people next.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/25/13 01:24 AM
I dont think H has been in contact with OW since I confronted him. The cell phone is laying on the counter untouched since I confronted him. The last verified contact was mid Dec.

What I dont know is if there was contact between mid-Dec and when I confronted him. He of course says no.

I tend to believe him for this reason.....she contacted our son(who works at the same place she left) to tell him goodbye. H told me this. Son was bewildered why she would message him and H acted like he was too.

Not sure why he even told me. Subconsciously wanted to be caught, testing to see if I knew anything? Anyway, my first thought was "thats hugely inappropriate". Of course, the more I thought about it the more I realized she would never have contacted son 5 years after the A ended unless she was in contact with H and felt she was on good enough terms with him that he wouldnt be mad. I think she was also trying to get herself on H radar because he wasnt calling her as much as she wanted. Who knows.

Anyway, I really want to know if he lied to me about the contact from mid Dec to when I confronted him and I wont have access to that info for about 5 days. I am thinking I should wait for that info until I expose.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/25/13 03:02 PM
I hope to be able to discuss with H him writing a NC letter tonight.

I am going to ask him to draft it because he needs to take responsibility for it and also I want to see what he says.

Of course, I will edit it and send it myself.

That being said, I think its important for him to address that she was not so special as she thinks...i.e. that he was involved with other people at the same time. Also, to address that they cannot go back to the friendship they had pre-A.

She made a big point of telling me the last time we spoke that she was not like "2 OW that predated her" that she knew about. H said at the time that she meant she wasnt going to be intimidated by me or slink off in a corner at work and hide in shame.

Also, she presented the "relationship" to her family and at least one best friend as not being an A "because H was separated from me and she and her BH were "having problems" and he then she filed for D while they continued to live together.

My H also likes to defend himself with this logic. Of course,
its illogical given the A started while we were M and living together and was one of the reasons we separated.

Does anyone see a problem with including language like this.

Janna
Posted By: catwhit Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/25/13 03:32 PM
Advise you to stick with the NC letter templates as much as possible.

The focus in those puts the emphasis where it should be... on reconciling the marriage, and the terrible pain it caused YOU.

It is not about the relationship with the OW. It is NOT a good-bye letter, or a love letter. It states his plan to have no further contact.

The only addendum Taffy made was to tell the Dolly to whom she should refer any business-related correspondence. Otherwise, he followed the exact wording in the templates.
Posted By: LuvsDavid Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
I dont think H has been in contact with OW since I confronted him. The cell phone is laying on the counter untouched since I confronted him. The last verified contact was mid Dec.

My FWH had no problem at all giving me access to his cell phone and left it laying around all the time.........AFTER HE BOUGHT AN AFFAIR PHONE (PRE-PAID WALMART THING) THAT ONLY SHE HAD THE NUMBER TO !!!!!!!
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 02:54 PM
LuvsDavid

I dont think he has another phone. While he was away for the day I ripped the house apart and while he was sleeping I did the same with his car. If he has one its buried in the yard which is unlikely.

Sure he could get one, but he could also find one of the few remaining pay phones and call her collect. I will keep my eyes open, but my guess is he is far to frugal(and I only use that word because I promised him I would not call him cheap to incur the expense of an extra phone). If he is that determined to be in contact he will just leave imo.

Of course, anything could change, but as I have said he is a lazy cheater and if it becomes to complicated it will be too much trouble for him...especially just for an ego stroke via a phone call.

Part of the reason he got away with this for as long as he did is that I was lax in checking the phone(I was very ill....hospitalized for two weeks...long recovery). I also did not know I could get call detail. He still doesnt know I can get it and therefore will think its safe to use his phone if he does it away from me and is careful to delete things.

He believes I figured the contact out from the incident with her emailing son.

He is probably just trying to make sure I calm down and possibly even his version of extra precautioning himself not to call her...I dunno.

Janna
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
I dont think he has another phone. While he was away for the day I ripped the house apart and while he was sleeping I did the same with his car. If he has one its buried in the yard which is unlikely.


I thought the same thing......i found the affair phone 9 months and 5 days after dday. Keep looking. Bottoms of end tables, old coat pockets, behind tool boxes, suffed inside boxes that hold garbage bags, underneath file folders, inside unused luggage....you get the idea.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Janna, I am sorry you are here, welcome. You have already gotten great advice but there are things that jumped out at me that I would like to emphasize.

First, I would read the articles on this site and make sure you know this program well. Part of the reason you have never recovered your M and actually suffered MORE abuse at the hands of your WH is because you were basically doing things that Dr Harley would NEVER advise you to do.


~ have a wayward spouse go to counseling to explore their childhood issues. No, no, no. This is not only a waste of time but can have disasterous results because it gives the WS a reason to make excuses for their poor choices -- when they should be taking personal responsibility for their actions

I wanted to address this to clarify. I did not have WS go to counseling for purpose of dealing with his infidelity. We were separated; he had been increasingly verbally/emotionally abusive and it was escalating. At that time, I was becoming afraid of him and more than that, I was done. We had a huge fight and he walked out. When he calmed down and wanted to come home I told him no and that I would not consider it unless he got himself(by himself) into anger managment/domestic violence
counseling.

I had no idea at that time what his childhood issues were other than his father was slightly abusive.

Long story short, he did take responsibility and learn how to make choices, take actions not to be abusive to me. We were not addressing his adultery per se at that time.....I didnt care.

He has never used his childhood issues to justify his adultery to me.

But, just to be clear to anyone else who may be in a similar sitch.....never go to counseling with someone who is abusing you.

Janna


Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 04:30 PM
I don't understand what you are trying to salvage. What you've described doesn't sound like a husband/wife relationship; it sounds like a repeat offender/parole officer relationship. I'm sure you realize that you cannot fix these problems by policing him 24/7.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 04:40 PM
LuvsDavid

Thanks for the tips. I checked all those places. It is relatively easy for now. We are in transition between two houses and this one is sparsely furnished until we move our stuff.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
I don't understand what you are trying to salvage. What you've described doesn't sound like a husband/wife relationship; it sounds like a repeat offender/parole officer relationship. I'm sure you realize that you cannot fix these problems by policing him 24/7.

Like any other marriage, his infidelity is not the sum total of our life. Lots of people on here have recovered M with repeat offenders or H who broke NC more than once.

I dont plan on policing him 24/7. And really, thats no different than anyone else here. You can establish all the EP's in the world and if someone wants to cheat they will.

Janna
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/26/13 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
[quote=JessicaClaire]I don't understand what you are trying to salvage. What you've described doesn't sound like a husband/wife relationship; it sounds like a repeat offender/parole officer relationship. I'm sure you realize that you cannot fix these problems by policing him 24/7.

Like any other marriage, his infidelity is not the sum total of our life.

Hasn't he had a secret second life throughout your entire marriage?

Lots of people on here have recovered M with repeat offenders or H who broke NC more than once.

But no BS has been able to accomplish it singlehandedly.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 01:09 AM
Jessica

H did not have A during our entire M. But thats not really the point. That M ended when we separated for all intents and purposes. I am concerned today about what is going on now.

As for accomplishing it singlehandedly, I dont understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

BTW, do you mind if I ask what your situation is? I see you post a lot to others, but couldnt find your story. Are you a BS or a WW or something else?

Janna

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 01:15 AM
Interesting developments today.

H self exposed to son and much to my amusement set himself up to take a poly.

I questioned him on something and told him I didnt believe his answer was fully truthful. He jokingly said, "Why dont you go online and order a poly machine. Its the only way you are going to believe me."

I replied that maybe I should. He persisted that I should and he would pass. So, I said, "Would you really take a poly if I wanted you to?"

He said, "Yes". Of course, Im sure he has no idea that people are doing that lol or that I meant actually go to a professional who gives them.

Janna

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 01:29 AM
I would take him on his offer.

This thread has example questions in it.
Polygraph Testing
Posted By: LuvsDavid Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
Originally Posted by JannaBella
I dont think he has another phone. While he was away for the day I ripped the house apart and while he was sleeping I did the same with his car. If he has one its buried in the yard which is unlikely.


I thought the same thing......i found the affair phone 9 months and 5 days after dday. Keep looking. Bottoms of end tables, old coat pockets, behind tool boxes, suffed inside boxes that hold garbage bags, underneath file folders, inside unused luggage....you get the idea.


I can top that, his was hidden in the air box of the car where you change the air filter. Also he hid it under the plastic cubby hole in the center console.... you can pop those out to clean them and there is usually a big empty space under them.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 02:03 AM
He probably had the phone with him while he was away, is my guess.
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 04:52 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Jessica

H did not have A during our entire M. But thats not really the point. That M ended when we separated for all intents and purposes. I am concerned today about what is going on now.

As for accomplishing it singlehandedly, I dont understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

BTW, do you mind if I ask what your situation is? I see you post a lot to others, but couldnt find your story. Are you a BS or a WW or something else?

Janna

I'm a former betrayed wife. My ex husband had multiple affairs during the last 8 years of our 16-year marriage. I tried desperately to keep the marriage intact, but learned the hard way that sheer willpower was not enough. We divorced 6 years ago and I have custody of our kids. About 3 years ago, I started dating a wonderful man who is also divorced with kids. We are engaged to be married but do not live together. Our plan is to delay the wedding for a few years because most of the kids will be in college at that point (so we'll be able to avoid a "Brady Bunch" situation). *My fiance and I had some issues a few months ago, and I had a thread regarding it. We were able to resolve the issues through phone counseling sessions with Steve Harley. (I highly recommend Steve's counseling.)

Reading your thread, I noticed that you seem to be knocking yourself out, and am wondering if your husband is equally committed to restoring the marriage. It seems like he is letting you do all the heavy lifting.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I would take him on his offer.

This thread has example questions in it.
Polygraph Testing


Thanks for the link BH. I may take him up on his offer at some point. I want to see what shakes out from exposure first. But honestly, I dont have a ton of unanswered questions.

I scanned the link last night but my brain too tired....will relook at it today. In any case, he's put himself on the hook to take one if I choose.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
He probably had the phone with him while he was away, is my guess.

If he did, that would have been his first opportunity to buy and hide it and he would have had to do that in front of son he just exposed to.

From the evidence, he was only talking to OW once or twice a month. I cant see him going to those lengths.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the tips. If he has one, I will find it. So far, no sign of another phone.
Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/27/13 03:24 PM
Jessica

Thanks for sharing your story. Im sorry you went through all that, but glad to hear you are happy now.

As for the heavy lifting, my H has done his share at resolving many of the issues in our M. Clearly more to be done. He will come through or not.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 03:50 PM
Still no luck contacting OW BS. I think messaging people on FB who are not your friends is unreliable as it is not easy to realize you have a message there. Not sure if he ignored my voice mail or if it dropped off before he picked it up. Called the house but lost my nerve when a man answered because wasnt sure it was him or son. Anyway, dont want to talk to him with OW around and was mainly just checking to see if he was back at work. Seems odd if he got any of my contacts that hes not responding. He has always responded in the past.

I got sidetracked by a family medical situation, but I did have the opportunity to have someone who knows cars go over H car.
No sign of a secret phone.

H told me about the other OW friend request on FB. Of course, he knew I would see it.

Son called again and told us he forgot to tell us looked like someone took abaseball bat to our mailbox at other house. Said it was day or day after when I first contacted OW BS. Odd coincidence.

He also asked H how things were going with us because H had told him I was upset with him for talking to OW. Son told H "stay away from her; shes not worth it."

My plan is to expose to OW FB list Friday. I cant keep up with all the friends she is busy adding now that shes retired. Most of them former male coworkers. Seems she is not happy and on the prowl again.

Also, waiting for an updated list of my H family contact info from SIL as I have lost track of their emails if I ever had them.

In the meantime, H is being very loving and I am banking some Plan A time to see us through in case the exposure turns into a firestorm.

Janna

Posted By: schtoop Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 04:08 PM
Please wait a minute!!!!

Dr. Harley in talking about exposure says to tell family, CLOSE friends, clergy, those who may have influence on the affair partners.

Most facebook friends do NOT fall under that category and are simply aquaintances at best.

You're right, messaging people on facebook is unreliable because most only know her in passing and have no interest in getting personally involved.

You have already exposed to people on her facebook, there really is no reason to go after her new "friends". They can't help end the affair because there is nothing really going on now.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Please wait a minute!!!!

Dr. Harley in talking about exposure says to tell family, CLOSE friends, clergy, those who may have influence on the affair partners.

Most facebook friends do NOT fall under that category and are simply aquaintances at best.

I disagree 1000%!! Facebook is a collection of one's closest family and friends. Those are the people who do have the most influence over the cheater. We have had many affairs killed from doing a facebook exposure.

Quote
You're right, messaging people on facebook is unreliable because most only know her in passing and have no interest in getting personally involved.

And you won't know that until and unless you message the person. You can't predict who will have an impact unless you are PSYCHIC.

Quote
You have already exposed to people on her facebook, there really is no reason to go after her new "friends". They can't help end the affair because there is nothing really going on now.

If the affair has already been exposed to her facebook contacts, I agree there is no reason to do it again.

I haven't read this thread, btw, so I might have missed something.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 04:22 PM
Janna, I am trying to catch up, but if you have not contacted the OW's husband, you need to focus ALL of your attention on that. You need to stop hanging up when you call his house. [disguise your # using *67 before you call so the OW can't see it on caller ID] Ask for him. Or drive to his house. But what you can't do is give up until you have spoken to him. That is absolutely essential.

If you have already done a facebook exposure on the OW, don't bother doing it again.

Do you see any brothers or sisters of the OWH on her facebook? If you do, send THEM a PM and ask them to have the OWH call you. Tell them about the affair.

And STOP calling this a "friendship," it is an affair. Your husband is having an emotional affair. He is like the alcoholic who changes the name of his drinks to "business drinks" as a justification. But he is still just as drunk. After an affair there is no going back to a "friendship." An affair is an affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
I replied that maybe I should. He persisted that I should and he would pass. So, I said, "Would you really take a poly if I wanted you to?"

He said, "Yes". Of course, Im sure he has no idea that people are doing that lol or that I meant actually go to a professional who gives them.

Janna, did you set up the polygraph yet? I predict you will uncover many more affairs since he has a secret second life and stays in touch with his former OW.

The best way to do this is to schedule the polygraph and then surprise him 2 days ahead of time. When you tell him, hand him a list of all your questions and give him one last chance to come clean before the poly. [they usually sing like a canary because they don't want to flunk] The tester will choose 2-3 questions off the list and your WS will not know which ones until the test.

I can tell there is more here than meets the eye.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Anyway, we moved and the contact info I had for her husband with whom Ive spoken before is in our old house. Trying to go on memory, I sent him emails to several addresses that came back undeliverable. Then I sent same message to his facebook email and sent him a friend request. Finally, I remembered and called his company and got put through to his number. He didnt answer, so I left a voicemail message telling him they were in contact again and we should talk. Gave him my email addresses.

This was written on the 18th of January. Did you call him back?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
The OW he has recently been in contact with changed her FB name to a hyphenated name using her maiden-married name today. She's never used that name in the 20+ years Ive known her and I cant think of any reason to unless youre trying to make sure people you knew before marriage can contact you?

Deleting the facebook page should be at the top of your list of extraordinary precautions!
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 05:09 PM
OK, you guys are confusing me on FB exposure, but probably I wasnt clear.

When the A ended(5 years ago) there was some minimal exposure by me and by her BH. Also, they were flaunting the A to her family and some of WH family. Additionally, the woman her BH used to ID WH in photos taken by PI is a huge gossip so Im sure lots of people knew.

Bottom line...5 years ago there was some exposure...although some of those people were prob told H and I were separated and OW/BH were divorcing and therefore may not have viewed it as an A.

Back to the present...current situation is H breaking NC and being in phone contact with her a couple times a month for last 6 months. He says last time mid-Dec. I will be able to verify that in a few days.

So my plan is to expose the break in NC along with fact it was an A that started prior to our separation to her FB friends. I am doing this Friday.

My comment about it being unreliable was regarding the mechanics of FB not who will be supportive or not. If someone is not your friend messages go to "Other" mailbox......hard to notice. Its like spam box. Possibly why her BH has not seen or responded to the message I sent him there.

Hope that clarifies.

Janna
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
So my plan is to expose the break in NC along with fact it was an A that started prior to our separation to her FB friends. I am doing this Friday.

My comment about it being unreliable was regarding the mechanics of FB not who will be supportive or not. If someone is not your friend messages go to "Other" mailbox......hard to notice. Its like spam box. Possibly why her BH has not seen or responded to the message I sent him there.

Gotcha! That makes perfect sense and I agree with your plan to expose to her facebook friends.

A couple of key pointers:

1. stop calling it a "friendship," it is not a friendship, that is wayward spin. It is an affair. And you have proof; your husband admitted they were back in contact. He hid it for a reason: it is an affair.

2. I would insist that your husband delete his facebook page. He has poor boundaries around women and should not have a page, much less opposite sex friendships

3. Keep calling the OW's H and don't give up until you get him

4. I would strongly suggest you schedule a polygraph as I outlined above. I predict you will get more information
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Janna, I am trying to catch up, but if you have not contacted the OW's husband, you need to focus ALL of your attention on that. You need to stop hanging up when you call his house. [disguise your # using *67 before you call so the OW can't see it on caller ID] Ask for him. Or drive to his house. But what you can't do is give up until you have spoken to him. That is absolutely essential.

If you have already done a facebook exposure on the OW, don't bother doing it again.

Do you see any brothers or sisters of the OWH on her facebook? If you do, send THEM a PM and ask them to have the OWH call you. Tell them about the affair.

And STOP calling this a "friendship," it is an affair. Your husband is having an emotional affair. He is like the alcoholic who changes the name of his drinks to "business drinks" as a justification. But he is still just as drunk. After an affair there is no going back to a "friendship." An affair is an affair.

Melody

I have not yet been able to reach OW BH. Will try the FB contact, I know who his brother is.

Its hard to keep calling because H is underfoot. Next time I have the chance I will try him at work again. My belief is they were out of town for a week or more so I have some concern my original voice mail may have dropped off his mailbox if he wasnt checking. I havent given up, just not having any luck yet or he is ignoring me.

I get that this is not a friendship. Those are really my H words and Ive made it clear there will be no friendship if he wants to stay M to me.

Thanks
Janna
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
My comment about it being unreliable was regarding the mechanics of FB not who will be supportive or not. If someone is not your friend messages go to "Other" mailbox......hard to notice. Its like spam box. Possibly why her BH has not seen or responded to the message I sent him there.

How are you sending the messages? Are you going to the targets facebook page and clicking on "message" and sending it that way? They will see it when they get on facebook the next time.

Also, you should copy and paste her friends list into a WORD doc now for safe keeping. When she gets wind of your exposure, she will hide her friends list.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Melody

I have not yet been able to reach OW BH. Will try the FB contact, I know who his brother is.

Its hard to keep calling because H is underfoot. Next time I have the chance I will try him at work again. My belief is they were out of town for a week or more so I have some concern my original voice mail may have dropped off his mailbox if he wasnt checking. I havent given up, just not having any luck yet or he is ignoring me.

Good deal! Just stick to it.

Quote
I get that this is not a friendship. Those are really my H words and Ive made it clear there will be no friendship if he wants to stay M to me.

Thanks
Janna

I would not use his wayward terminology. Especially around him. He can call it a baloney sandwich, but you don't have to! An affair is an affair. And I would not use the term friendship again.
Posted By: schtoop Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 06:17 PM
Sorry, I was a little confused about the timeline and previous exposures.

Not to side-track this thread, but, Melody must not be using the same "Facebook" I am familiar with. A lot of the people I interact with on FB have anywhere from 200-300 to nearly 1,000 "friends".

Only a small percentage of those are family or close enough friends to have any influence on the affairees.

Of course FB should be used as a tool for identifying and contacting exposure targets, but I don't think targeting EVERYONE who is friended on FB is an effective plan.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Only a small percentage of those are family or close enough friends to have any influence on the affairees.

Of course FB should be used as a tool for identifying and contacting exposure targets, but I don't think targeting EVERYONE who is friended on FB is an effective plan.

We don't care who is close or not to the OP; [how would we even know???] it is completely and utterly irrelevant. That factor is only relevant to the WS. Exposing to as many of the OP's contacts as possible serves to RUN HER OFF and warn her contacts that she is a skank. Why in the world would we CARE who has influence on her?

When doing a facebook exposure, it is best to make a list and rank them like this:

1. family members
2. married friends
3. any clergy

If an OP has 1000 contacts, then of course, they can't all be targets, but the BS should expose to as many as they can.

This is much cheaper than taking out a billboard.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Of course FB should be used as a tool for identifying and contacting exposure targets, but I don't think targeting EVERYONE who is friended on FB is an effective plan.

Actually, targeting as many people as possible is VERY effective because you have no idea who will have the greatest influence. The more people who know, the better. The more people who know, the more times the OP has to "explain" herself. Most OPs won't want the trouble.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Dr. Harley in talking about exposure says to tell family, CLOSE friends, clergy, those who may have influence on the affair partners.

Most facebook friends do NOT fall under that category and are simply aquaintances at best.

I have heard Dr Harley discussing FB exposure on his radio show -- he seemed to support it and commented that it has been effective for forum members. Which it has.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/30/13 11:06 PM
The only problem is the possibility of being locked out of the system, which is why people have recently started getting told to expose to the more important targets first (IE dad, mom, and so forth.)
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/31/13 12:36 AM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
The only problem is the possibility of being locked out of the system, which is why people have recently started getting told to expose to the more important targets first (IE dad, mom, and so forth.)

I THINK that spacing them 60 seconds apart eliminates the problem. The ones who have been locked out and usually able to get back in fairly quickly.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/31/13 02:07 PM
OW has approx 90 friends on FB. Most are either family, inlaws, former coworkers...subordinates, old bosses....very few of our peers which is interesting.

I am going to my sisters to do exposure as its impossible here with H glued to my side. I am also thinking I will set up a second FB page using slight variation on my name and sister can use second computer to help.

She is also researching for polygraph for me.

OW FB friends who are coworkers will imo spread the story to a network of hundreds of other people in our former workplace. It was/is a toxic incestuous mess of a place that thrives on this kind of stuff. The story will be spread coast to coast in a few days.

I also sent pm FB messages to OW BH and his brother. Couldnt do that until this am, so no response yet.

In other news, the side other OW who sent H a friend request....I blocked her on his page and impulsively send her a friend request from my page. Unbelievably, she accepted lol. Brazen witch. Not sure what to do with her.

Also....one concern I have...my expsosure will get back to son who still works where we worked. Should I give him a heads up. He does not like OW, but not sure how he will take what I am going to do.

Re H FB, OW are blocked and I changed his password so he cant get into it. I told him. I dont want to shut it down until after I expose. I want to see what shakes out from that...specifically who contacts him to "let him know what I am doing" or other non supportive stuff.

Janna

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/31/13 02:17 PM
Sounds like a plan! I would not tell your son until it is over.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/31/13 06:52 PM
If your husband logs into facebook from his phone, you might want to remove that app -- or definitely log him off of it - then change his password.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/31/13 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
I also sent pm FB messages to OW BH...

Have you called him at his company again? Leave him another voicemail and then have the receptionist page him...keep trying.

If your husband is underfoot, go to the store for an extended period if you need privacy on the phone.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/31/13 09:45 PM
Janna, another way to reach the OW's husband is to send him a certified letter telling him about the affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 01/31/13 09:47 PM
OR........it just ocurred to me that you might be able to get his email address from his company website. Look for other email addresses and see how they are patterned. From that, you should be able to figure it out. If not, call the receptionist at his company and say "Joe Blow asked me to email him something but I think I wrote it down wrong, can you verify this email address?" And if it is wrong, she will give you the correct one.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/22/13 04:42 PM
I havent updated in a while, but yesterday learned some or all of attempts to contact OW BH worked.

As I was having coffee yesterday am WH snipped at me re "What am I doing on the computer all day the day before and why had I changed my email password." Ha....doesnt feel so good to be suspicious does it.

Anyway, reminded him I had to change pw because someone hacked account and sent out diet ads to my contacts.

A few days previously he had responded to comments I made about OW BH with "why are you so intrigued with him" and to other comments re things I saw on FB with "this FB stuff is disturbing". Later he said he was subtly trying to find out what I was doing, but it was about as subtle as a ton of bricks. Was pretty sure OW had told him I contacted BH who has never responded to any of my contacts.

So anyway, after his snooping and quizzing me got him nothing, he went back to bed in a snit. Few minutes later I followed him and said whats this all about. He got back up and eventuallly, seeing he wasnt giving anything up I asked him if he had talked to OW.

He first said no. I said dont believe she hasnt contacted you since Dec. He finally caved and said she left VM he didnt answer and then second urgent VM telling him I contacted her BH and what was I doing.

Her "VM" told him all the contacts I made. That he wasnt mad at her and he had nothing to say anyway because he talked to old girlfriends. He was upset I "got through his security"..and how smart I must be to do that. Huh?

The receptionist put me through and I used Melody Lanes suggestion to get company's email format and put his name in like that. Thanks!!

Bunch of other stuff....way too much stuff for a VM. Told my H that. "No, she ticked it off 1,2,3." He said she was spitting mad to which I responded "Why if BH not upset?"

Anyway, I let this go on for a while. Let him think it was over then hit him again. This time it was 2 VM's to cover everything. Sometimes my H is really stupid for such a smart man lol. Finally he caved... and admitted he talked to her.

She just "wanted to give him a heads up that I contacted her BH" all the stuff above and she was the "maddest I've ever heard her." Again, why if BH not mad which I pointed out to him is just spin IMO to keep me from calling him.

Not sure why he didnt respond. Although, my sense of him is that he is wayward or formerly himself or maybe she just pitched a fit and he was afraid to call. Dunno.

The wierd thing is that my H is lying to me about when he talked to her which makes no sense. A new number showed up on his phone which is hers Im 99% and after sleeping on it, makes sense. She was using a work cell before and now that shes retired its a personal number.

He told me he didnt tell me because it was the day before he had a medical procedure and he didnt want to have a big fight because he was already stressed over the procedure which is true. Still makes no sense because he actually talked to her 3 days before that.

I asked him what he told her and he said "told you I wouldnt contact her anymore and "this" wasnt doing either one of them any good." I.E. no contact "in his own way" lol...not good enough.

Oh, she also said, "when is this going to end".....meaning me contacting her H. Silly twit.

Also, asked him if "everything was OK." Per H it was like she wanted me to do something about it all, but I told her I had to go. She apparently screamed at him in the original VM to "get your W under control." lol.

I had to delay the FB exposure for a number of reasons, but that has worked out better because now my timing is that it will all hit as she walks into a luncheon involving many of the people who will be exposed to.

Finally, she posted on FB in response to her sister that she cant wait for her visit which is a few hours away from us. I think she is trying to F with my head but so what. She and her H have been conspicuously absent from FB compared to before so Im guessing its not as peachy keen as she tried to make it sound to my H.

Its really bugging me why H is lying about the date he talked to her. Anyway, he was not all that upset. His main concern was what I said about him lol. They really are ridiculous.

Now to steel myself for exposure. Im surprised she didnt call me like last time I contacted her H, but really she has nothing to threaten me with.

Janna
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/22/13 05:07 PM
Quote
He told me he didnt tell me because it was the day before he had a medical procedure and he didnt want to have a big fight because he was already stressed over the procedure

This is one smelly, steaming load of crapola!

He did not tell you because he KNEW he was being bad.

Honestly, is he 5 years old?

Carry on ....... strength & courage.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/22/13 05:15 PM
My opinion:

When speaking to WH, never refer to OW by her first name. Always refer to her as "Bill's wife". (whatever his first name is)
Never refer to their relationship as "Your affair".
Always refer to it as "Your adultery".

You are stating facts. You are not stating your opinion.
It's more difficult for the infidels to justify themselves to themselves when the facts are properly stated.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Quote
He told me he didnt tell me because it was the day before he had a medical procedure and he didnt want to have a big fight because he was already stressed over the procedure

This is one smelly, steaming load of crapola!

He did not tell you because he KNEW he was being bad.

Honestly, is he 5 years old?

Carry on ....... strength & courage.

Yes, thats true. When I pressed him later on this, he added that he was really pissed off at me for contacting her BH...so mad he almost packed up and left. He was also afraid we would get into a huge fight and I wouldnt drive him for the procedure. You cant go alone because anesthesia is involved. He didnt know who else to call to drive him and explain why I wouldnt lol. He is terrified of this procedure as well and under a lot of stress anticipating etc.

Whatever, I knew she would call him and he would talk to her. The upside of that is I have her new number in case she keeps calling and I learned that my contacts to her BH got through for whatever good that does. This is a man who either followed her or had her followed until he got a pic of her and my WH kissing, but now doesnt care enough to call me to find out what I know about them talking again.

She did tell WH that he was going to add me as his FB friend until she told him "What, are you crazy?"

I'm still bugged by why hes lying about the date he talked to her. The only thing I can think of is to make me confront him with proof. Hes still not sure if I do or dont have access to this info from his phone records or if I told him I figured it out from the inappropriateness of her contacting son.

He stuck by this story vigorously other than saying he could be off one day. He also wasnt exhibiting the tells he usually does when he lies. Maybe he simply has it mixed up. He has a bad memory even about routine stuff. Anyway, its not important enough to give up my source.

If he got mad enough to leave over this, not boding well for exposure.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
My opinion:

When speaking to WH, never refer to OW by her first name. Always refer to her as "Bill's wife". (whatever his first name is)
Never refer to their relationship as "Your affair".
Always refer to it as "Your adultery".

You are stating facts. You are not stating your opinion.
It's more difficult for the infidels to justify themselves to themselves when the facts are properly stated.


I understand the power of linguistics, but it seems really silly not to call her by her name when I also have known her for 20 years. I'll try it.

Also, I could have sworn Melody Lane told me to call it Affair as opposed to relationship/friendship. Why does it matter affair or adultery?

Thanks for chiming in.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 03:07 PM
So....if he does get so mad he starts packing to leave when I expose, what should I do.

Try to calm him down or just let him go? Keep in mind the only place he has to go here is a hotel and the only other option is to drive back to our other house which is only a few miles from OW.

I really dont think I should just stand by and let that happen.

Janna
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 04:06 PM
Why haven't you gone into Plan B?
Posted By: Littlebit3 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
So....if he does get so mad he starts packing to leave when I expose, what should I do.

Try to calm him down or just let him go? Keep in mind the only place he has to go here is a hotel and the only other option is to drive back to our other house which is only a few miles from OW.

I really dont think I should just stand by and let that happen.

Janna

Hi there JannaBella. Just know that he WILL get angry. He doesn't want the embarrassment, shame and consequences that come along with people knowing the truth in what he has done. He will get angry!! Remember, you are at war against this OW and his addiction to her. Can you imagine how quickly they will reconnect if you don't fight this war? This isn't about his feelings, it is about saving your marriage, if at all possible. I have read quite a few times, other betrayed spouses posting on here what if he/she leaves b/c, etc... The responses are always let him go and get yourself into plan B. That is because YOU can't control him, what he wants, how he feels or what he does. You can only control yourself, and most importantly, you NEED to protect yourself and heal yourself from all of this. Plan B serves quite a few purposes. Since you can't control his choice to leave, then you can control how you are going to move forward with the rest of your life. I know that all seems so scary, but he will feel the pinch of the shame and consequences. He will feel the hardship of not having you holding him up and protecting him anymore. This isn't about you "letting" him go to your other house so close to the OW. This is about YOU knowing that you can only control yourself and the outcome of all of this for yourself and that he is going to do whatever he is going to do. He is threatening, hoping you will back down on your boundaries and expectations. DO NOT give in!!! Stay the course Janna.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 05:29 PM
Quote
I understand the power of linguistics, but it seems really silly not to call her by her name when I also have known her for 20 years. I'll try it.

Also, I could have sworn Melody Lane told me to call it Affair as opposed to relationship/friendship. Why does it matter affair or adultery?
My thoughts:
You call her "Bill's wife" because she does not deserve to have her name spoken by you.

My thoughts as far as friendship/relationship vs affair/adultery: definitely NEVER refer to it as a friendship or relationship. It is nothing as innocent and fine as either of those things. You could call it an affair and be correct, because that is what it is, but the word 'affair' can have a romantic connotation to some. The word 'adultery' is never romantic and never acceptable in society. There's no romanticizing or dressing that word up.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
So....if he does get so mad he starts packing to leave when I expose, what should I do.

Try to calm him down or just let him go? Keep in mind the only place he has to go here is a hotel and the only other option is to drive back to our other house which is only a few miles from OW.

I really dont think I should just stand by and let that happen.

Janna
Yes, you stay at your calmest. Sure, he's going to be pissed. Exposure is NOT in his play book.

You can't force him to stay, and you have no control over where he goes if/when he leaves. You can only control yourself. Stay calm and remind yourself that you are doing everything you can to save your marriage.

FWIW, I don't think he's going anywhere. Or, if he does, it will only be for a day or so - just long enough for his anger to blow out. Most waywards can't keep that emotion going for very long.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
So....if he does get so mad he starts packing to leave when I expose, what should I do.

I really dont think I should just stand by and let that happen.

Have you read the Carrot/Stick link in my sig line?
Make sure you begin reading from the first post.

Of course you "let it happen". You cannot stop him.
Let me ask you this.
Is he afraid he might lose you? He needs to be.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 05:53 PM
"I can't stop you from leaving. I am not your warden. I am your wife. I love you. I am very hurt and wounded from your adultery with Bill's wife. I am willing to stay here and work with you to repair our marriage after your adulterous affair has ended permanently. But you need to know this, I am certain I will not remain married to a man who continues to be unfaithful. You have some decisions to make. So do I."
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Why haven't you gone into Plan B?

Jessica,

Not sure why you think I should at this point. I will if I feel it is necessary.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
My thoughts:
You call her "Bill's wife" because she does not deserve to have her name spoken by you.

My thoughts as far as friendship/relationship vs affair/adultery: definitely NEVER refer to it as a friendship or relationship. It is nothing as innocent and fine as either of those things. You could call it an affair and be correct, because that is what it is, but the word 'affair' can have a romantic connotation to some. The word 'adultery' is never romantic and never acceptable in society. There's no romanticizing or dressing that word up.


OK this makes sense, although I struggle at times with even using Affair because most of this happened while we were separated. He likes to try to make the case that we were separated and he thought of himself as single. There was a long period of time where I did nothing to stop the A because I didnt care. I basically was in a version of a dark Plan B without knowing that since I hadnt found MB. Unfortunately, I didnt give him the greatest way back to our M and I was so focused on him stopping his abusiveness that I didnt even know about the A. I assumed he was with someone or several someones, but I didnt bother to find out.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Janna
FWIW, I don't think he's going anywhere. Or, if he does, it will only be for a day or so - just long enough for his anger to blow out. Most waywards can't keep that emotion going for very long.

Why do you think this?

Janna
Posted By: Littlebit3 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Quote
My thoughts:
You call her "Bill's wife" because she does not deserve to have her name spoken by you.

My thoughts as far as friendship/relationship vs affair/adultery: definitely NEVER refer to it as a friendship or relationship. It is nothing as innocent and fine as either of those things. You could call it an affair and be correct, because that is what it is, but the word 'affair' can have a romantic connotation to some. The word 'adultery' is never romantic and never acceptable in society. There's no romanticizing or dressing that word up.


OK this makes sense, although I struggle at times with even using Affair because most of this happened while we were separated. He likes to try to make the case that we were separated and he thought of himself as single. There was a long period of time where I did nothing to stop the A because I didnt care. I basically was in a version of a dark Plan B without knowing that since I hadnt found MB. Unfortunately, I didnt give him the greatest way back to our M and I was so focused on him stopping his abusiveness that I didnt even know about the A. I assumed he was with someone or several someones, but I didnt bother to find out.

Janna

I understand what you are saying, but you know what? You were still married!!! Don't forget that. Even though you were separated, you were still married. Anything could happen. Maybe I am just wrong, but separation is usually to get some space, clear your head, figure out what you want, and figure out if you can make your marriage work. Separation is not license to go sleep with someone else and have an affair. It IS NOT ok that he did this. You are married until you are divorced.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by JannaBella
So....if he does get so mad he starts packing to leave when I expose, what should I do.

I really dont think I should just stand by and let that happen.

Have you read the Carrot/Stick link in my sig line?
Make sure you begin reading from the first post.

Of course you "let it happen". You cannot stop him.
Let me ask you this.
Is he afraid he might lose you? He needs to be.


Thanks. I hadnt read it, but I did. I think I will have to reread to absorb it all. He said he was when I asked him. He's what I would call half foggy at the moment. Intellectually, he knows whats right from wrong and which part of what hes done is wrong. But, of course he just wants me to accept that its no big deal, he screwed up mainly her fault for contacting him (and mine for making her contact him again by contacting his H.......that just for everyones amusement lol). Even he laughs at some of the stuff he says before I even can say a word about it. Its not really funny, but at least he realizes hes being ridiculous.

His mantra is he made a commitment to me when we got back together and he's kept it.

Janna
Posted By: Littlebit3 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 08:09 PM
He made have made the committment to you, but that doesn't mean that he is the only one that can decide how to fix it. That would never work. You need whatever it is that you need. So, he needs to understand that he has destroyed trust and this isn't just some simple little mistake and that you have a WHOLE list of things that he is going to have to do for you to be able to feel safe and even want to continue on with this marriage.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Why do you think this?

I don't think he's going anywhere either.
Here is why. The 80/20 rule.
I did not write this post. But I often refer to it because I like it very much for how it explains need vs want.

** LINK ** to original

Originally Posted by Kalahari
I have been a long time reader of this site and must admit that advice given to all the people really helped me a lot.

I thought that today I will share with you something that I received from a friend which says a lot.

Interesting quote from the movie "Why did I get married?"

In most cases, especially in relationships, you will only get 80% of
what you NEED and you will hardly get the other 20% that you WANT in
your relationship. There is always another person (man or women) that
you will meet and that will offer you the other 20% which is lacking
in your relationship that you WANT

And believe me, 20% looks really good when you are not getting it at
all in your current relationship.

But the problem is that you will always be tempted to leave that good
80% that you know you have, thinking that you will get something
better with the other 20% that you WANT

But as reality has proven, in most cases, you will always end up with
having the 20% that you WANT and loosing the 80% that you really NEED
and that you already had.

Be careful in deciding between what you WANT and NEED in your life.


Adultery happens when you start looking for what you don't have. "Wow,
this girl in my office is a real looker. But it's not her Wynona Rider
features that got me. I'm crazy about her because she's also
understanding, intelligent, tender - so many things that my spouse is
not"

Somewhere along the way, you'll find a woman or a man who will be more
charming or sensitive. More alluring. More thoughtful. Richer. Have
greater sex appeal. And you will find a woman or man who will need you
and pursue you and go loco over you more than your spouse ever did.

Because no wife or husband is perfect. Because a spouse will only have
80% of what you're looking for. So adultery takes place when a husband
or wife looks for the missing 20%. Let's say your wife is melancholic
by nature.

You may find yourself drawn to the pretty clerk who has a cherry laugh
no matter what she says: "I broke my arm yesterday, Hahahaha . . .."

Or because your wife is a homebody in slippers and pajamas, smelling
of garlic and fish oil, you may fall for a fresh-smelling young sales
representative that visits your office in a sharp black blazer, high
heels, and a red pencil-cut skirt Or because your husband is the quiet
type, your heart may skip a beat when you meet an old college flame
who has the makings of a talk show host.

But wait! That's only 20% of what you don't have.

Don't throw away the 80% that you already have!

That's not all. Add to your spouse's 80% the 100% that represents all
the years that you have been with each other. The storms you have
weathered together. The unforgettable moments of sadness and joy as a
couple. The many adjustments you have made to love the other. The
wealth of memories that you've accumulated as lovers.

Adultery happens when you start looking for what you don't have.

But faithfulness happens when you start thanking God for what you
already have.

But I'm not just talking about marriage.

I'm talking about life!

About your jobs.
About your friends.
About your children.
About your lifestyles.

Are you like the economy airline passenger that perennially peeks
through the door of the first class cabin, obsessed with what he's
missing? "They have got more leg room! Oh my, their food is served in
porcelain! Wow, their seats recline at an 80% angle and they've got
personal videos!"

I guarantee you'll be miserable for the entire trip! Don't live your
life like that. Forget about what the world says is first class. Do
you know that there are many first class passengers who are miserable
in first class -- because they are not riding in a private Lear Jet?

The main message???

If you start appreciating what you have right now, wherever you are,
you are first class!


When it comes down to it. You are NOT the 20%. He'd be walking away from his 80%. You.

Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Why haven't you gone into Plan B?

Jessica,

Not sure why you think I should at this point. I will if I feel it is necessary.

Janna

If I understand correctly, during the course of your 28 year marriage, your husband has cheated with approx. 10 different women. I don't know how long you've been in Plan A, but Dr. Harley wrote, "if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B." He also wrote, "In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible . . . Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B." In a previous post, didn't you say you felt you had made a mistake by taking him back too soon? Dr. Harley also wrote "I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior." Aren't you suppose to go into Plan B if he refuses to follow all of the EPs and stop hiding things from you? Maybe I've misunderstood Dr. Harley's recommedations regarding Plans A & B...
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/23/13 11:17 PM
One of the purposes of Plan B is to prevent you from falling out of love with him, right? I'm thinking there must be massive "withdrawals" each time you discover that he still isn't being completely transparent. How much longer until your "lovebank" is completely depleted by all of this?
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/24/13 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Why haven't you gone into Plan B?

Jessica,

Not sure why you think I should at this point. I will if I feel it is necessary.

Janna

If I understand correctly, during the course of your 28 year marriage, your husband has cheated with approx. 10 different women. I don't know how long you've been in Plan A, but Dr. Harley wrote, "if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B." He also wrote, "In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible . . . Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B." In a previous post, didn't you say you felt you had made a mistake by taking him back too soon? Dr. Harley also wrote "I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior." Aren't you suppose to go into Plan B if he refuses to follow all of the EPs and stop hiding things from you? Maybe I've misunderstood Dr. Harley's recommedations regarding Plans A & B...

Jessica

I dont recall saying I took my H back too soon. I think what I said was I didnt do as good a job at spelling out the ground rules as I could have because I wasnt familiar with all these MB concepts at the time and was winging it.

I am in the process of correcting that. If that doesnt work to my satisfaction then I will consider if I need to be in plan B.

My H has screwed up. But, I have no reason to believe he is currently in a full blown physical or even emotional A. He made a few phone 10 min phone calls over a period of 7 months. I dont see a reason to blow up our entire M when I believe we can fix this.

Janna Bella

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/24/13 01:42 AM
I understand what you are saying, but you know what? You were still married!!! Don't forget that. Even though you were separated, you were still married. Anything could happen. Maybe I am just wrong, but separation is usually to get some space, clear your head, figure out what you want, and figure out if you can make your marriage work. Separation is not license to go sleep with someone else and have an affair. It IS NOT ok that he did this. You are married until you are divorced.


You are correct, but thats not exactly how it went for us lol. He stormed out after an argument and sat around at his parents house waiting for me to beg him to come back. When that didnt happen much to his surprise, he tried to come back anyway and I told him I didnt want him back.

There was no discussion. Later I laid down the conditions that he must get anger management therapy. That made him angry...haha and although he eventually did that, it took him a long time. I basically went dark and during that time the A that had been basically a friends with benefits thing became far more entrenched.

So, even though I didnt care that much about the A at that time he was actually engaged in one when he left even though I didnt really know about it.

Janna
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/24/13 02:30 AM
So you're planning to expose, correct?

You're in Plan A.

What is your plan for exposure? Who and when?
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/24/13 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
So you're planning to expose, correct?

You're in Plan A.

What is your plan for exposure? Who and when?

Plan is to expose Tues AM. To her FB friends and WH family via email.

Plus separate email to my 4 stepsons
Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/24/13 02:21 PM
This is message Im planning to send OW friends/family. Any feedback is appreciated.


OW friends and family

I am sending you this message as a friend or family member of OW. Some of you know that OW had an A with my H.

She came into my home to conduct this sordid A with my H while I was out of town or met him in his car by the railroad tracks after Thurs night bowling. When my H and I separated the A continued. Her H contacted me to inform me he had pictures of the two of them embracing.

Facing a divorce filed by her H, she began pressuring my H to divorce me live with her. At that point, my H decided he wanted to reconcile our M.

We have been have been working to restore our M for the last five years. Unfortunately, I have recently become aware that OW and my H are once again in contact.

I am not willing to tolerate a "friendship" that has previously caused so much destruction to both of our families. If you have any influence over OW, I hope you will urge her to respect her own H and marriage and stay out of mine.

I also wanted to make sure that those of you who have her around your husbands, know exactly what kind of person she is.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/24/13 02:23 PM
Another question. Should I block all means for her to call WH to complain about the exposure or should I just let it happen so they are in conflict?

Janna
Posted By: Gamma Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/24/13 02:29 PM
Jannabell,

Save or record all contact, send it to her husband and children and grandchildren.

Given the seriousness of your WHs continual lapses, I would expose his "side pieces" as well, WHs needs to know that you are not taking prisoners.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Another question. Should I block all means for her to call WH to complain about the exposure or should I just let it happen so they are in conflict?

Janna

Why do you feel that enforcing no contact is your responsibility rather than your husband's?
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 02:39 PM
Is there a reason you are only mentioning his most recent affair partner in your exposure letter? I realize the letter should focus on her at this point, but I'm thinking it might be helpful to briefly explain that he has had affairs with 9 other women (that you know of) during the course of your marriage. That would help correct the fact that his previous affairs were not fully exposed, and it would enable people to appreciate the magnitude of the problem you are facing.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Jannabell,

Save or record all contact, send it to her husband and children and grandchildren.

Given the seriousness of your WHs continual lapses, I would expose his "side pieces" as well, WHs needs to know that you are not taking prisoners.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma

These women have all been exposed to their spouses, fiances, boyfriends if they had them. Granted they were not perfect MB exposures, but I'm not sure what is gained by opening up ancient history and inviting them back into our lives.

I have no reason to believe H is in contact with any of them or to believe he has been since we've been back together.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Another question. Should I block all means for her to call WH to complain about the exposure or should I just let it happen so they are in conflict?

Janna

Why do you feel that enforcing no contact is your responsibility rather than your husband's?

Jessica

I dont. We have not yet changed all our phone numbers so contact is possible. OW will contact once I expose to her FB friends...of that I am sure.

My guess is this will also make her contact me on house phone, which is the only access she has to me.

I will not be here when it happens more than likely because I am going to my sisters to get all that done. I dont expect my H to resist answering a message from her about "What your crazy wife is doing now." Not sure I would be able to. He already is suspicious about what Im doing on the computer. Thats all.

Once this is done, going forward.....I do expect him to enforce no contact.
Janna

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Is there a reason you are only mentioning his most recent affair partner in your exposure letter? I realize the letter should focus on her at this point, but I'm thinking it might be helpful to briefly explain that he has had affairs with 9 other women (that you know of) during the course of your marriage. That would help correct the fact that his previous affairs were not fully exposed, and it would enable people to appreciate the magnitude of the problem you are facing.

There is no particular reason other than its already a long message. I dont think my H secret life is as secret as he likes to think. In fact, I know its not. Im sure I will get a few responses telling me about all or some of it.

I guess I didnt think it was necessary and I dont want to look like a "crazy wife" making a lot of unsupported statements. I dunno. All of that is really irrelevant to her contact.

My thoughts regarding his family was that I would discuss this with the ones who contact me back.

What do others think I should say if anything about this?
Janna
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Once this is done, going forward.....I do expect him to enforce no contact.
Janna

So he gets a grace period before he has to have no contact?

Come on, now. Think about that. Until you're mad enough to kick his [censored] to the curb, he'll have no incentive to change.

It's going to have to come down to "You either do ___, ___ and ___ or I'm divorcing you. No second-chances, no get out of jail free cards. You're either in or you're out, because I'm done living with this kind of sh*t in my life."

What are your standards for being married to him?


Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
This is message Im planning to send OW friends/family. Any feedback is appreciated.


OW friends and family

I am sending you this message as a friend or family member of OW. Some of you know that OW had an A with my H.

She came into my home to conduct this sordid A with my H while I was out of town or met him in his car by the railroad tracks after Thurs night bowling. When my H and I separated the A continued. Her H contacted me to inform me he had pictures of the two of them embracing.

Facing a divorce filed by her H, she began pressuring my H to divorce me live with her. At that point, my H decided he wanted to reconcile our M.

We have been have been working to restore our M for the last five years. Unfortunately, I have recently become aware that OW and my H are once again in contact.

I am not willing to tolerate her continued presence and attempts to destroy my family. a "friendship" that has previously caused so much destruction to both of our families. If you have any influence over OW, I hope you will urge her to respect her own H and marriage and stay out of mine.

I also wanted to make sure that those of you who have her around your husbands, know exactly what kind of person she is. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Thank you for your help.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 04:18 PM
Northwood

Thanks for the edits.

No...not a grace period. Maybe I am just confused. From what I have read about exposure I thought it was a good thing for them to have contact about the exposure because it would cause a lot of conflict between them.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 04:24 PM
Also.......we are not around any of these people anymore that her on her FB list. If theres no contact, it could take a long time for him to know I did this. I would rather it just be out and over with.

Janna
Posted By: Darkguy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 04:27 PM
I thought you established NC? No contact means no contact.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/25/13 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Northwood

Thanks for the edits.

No...not a grace period. Maybe I am just confused. From what I have read about exposure I thought it was a good thing for them to have contact about the exposure because it would cause a lot of conflict between them.

Janna

Sure, if they are in contact it's good that it's full of conflict.

I'd, however, rather them not be in contact to begin with. Wouldn't you?

I wouldn't be afraid, Janna, to give him a swift kick in the [censored] with an "or else" statement following it. He believes that you're afraid of losing him and will be painfully slow to do anything if there are no consequences on the horizon.



Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Another question. Should I block all means for her to call WH to complain about the exposure or should I just let it happen so they are in conflict?

Janna

Why do you feel that enforcing no contact is your responsibility rather than your husband's?

I dont expect my H to resist answering a message from her... Once this is done, going forward.....I do expect him to enforce no contact.

I recently listened to a MB radio show in which Dr. Harley counseled the wife of a man who'd had 5 extramarital affairs. Because of the man's extensive history of adultery, Dr. Harley told the wife that as soon as her husband broke another EP, she should go straight into Plan B. Your husband has had twice as many affairs as that man, yet you are still minimizing and rationalizing every time he breaks the most basic EP (no contact).

Why don't you tell him that if he has any contact with her ever again--under any circumstance--you will move out and file for divorce? Then do it! IMO, the appropriate consequence of his repeated adultery is exposure of all 10 extramarital affairs and Plan B as soon as he breaks another EP. He is not a child. No more excuses.
Posted By: Darkguy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:27 AM
Janabella means Jana is beautiful right? So why you let your H treat you so ugly? If he breaks NC Plan B. Get your plan b set up now. Your enabling him to treat you like crap. Stop it you don't deserve it.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 02:19 PM
OK.....to answer everyones questions.......

H doesnt think Im afraid of losing him...during a meltdown he had this weekend he said he was fighting every urge to run away(old habit of his when we have problems). He was curled up in bed and I said, "doesnt seem like you are in any shape to pack all your stuff and drive, do you want me to make you a cup of tea and pack all your stuff for you?"

Same thing last week after an argument, made all the "I'm leaving noises" and went out to his car. I continued eating breakfast. Few minutes, he came back in and said, "Youre supposed to come out and beg me to stay." I said, "Not happening ever again in your lifetime, do you want some more coffee."

I dont want him to leave, but Im not afraid of him leaving or of being alone.

I am adding this sentence to exposure...

"The last time I spoke to OW, she informed me she was "not like" the two OW she knew my H had an affair with before her. Contrary to her belief that she is something special to my H, she is one of 10 OW he has had A with 4 of them simultaneous to his A with her. The only way she is different is that she will not stop contacting him."........feel free to critique or edit.

H wrote and I mailed NC letter on Sunday. OW will prob not receive it for a day or two. It wont stop her anyway once the FB exposure hits.

I made clear to H last night that there is no acceptable reason for him to return any contact she makes. Outlined all the possible "hooks" and what he should do. Also, told him he would have to leave if he talks to her via any means including third parties.

I dont think I am minimizing or rationalizing. Most of this site is geared to dealing with an active A as opposed to resumed contact. I am simply confused about the order of steps I should take sometimes. Thanks to everyone for helping me clarify.

I think I covered everything. If not let me know.

Janna



Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 04:08 PM
Have you seen this?
False Recover- Need Voices of Experience
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
And this?
False Recovery
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 04:28 PM
Here's a radio clip on multiple affairs.

Radio Clip on Multiple Affairs

Tell us what you think.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:05 PM
Brain Hurts

Thanks for the links. I will study them later..in the middle of FB exposure now. Major storm(weather wise) here prevented me from going to my sisters and she is intermittenly w/o power.

Anyway, H presence was requested by F to help him with something so I am working on it here and she is helping in between power outs. We both just got kicked off. Fifty out of eighty so far...thirty more to go.

OW has left 6 messages on H phone lol. She has not yet figured out home phone apparently, nor has she blocked FB....I'm guessing because its the only way she can think of to contact me.

Need help.......do I answer her?

First message:

What the hell are you doing? I told you last time I'm not trying to "hook up" with your H. Hes an old friend and I just called to check on him. Stop with the craziness.

Second message:

First you call my H now you are sending messages to my mother and sister? Youre insane. My mother is in her 80's and sick...shes beside herself.

Third message:

You Beotch......I'm reporting you to FB and you'll be lucky if I dont sue the Hell out of you. When is this ever going to stop with you.

Also, lots of other messages from other people....the only one I want to respond to right now is from someone saying she is telling people that H and I and her and her H were separated when they were "seeing" each other...i.e. it wasnt an A.

Thanks.
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:08 PM
oh...I forgot this one:

Look what do you want. I told you Im not after your H. This needs to stop. Does H know youre doing this? You are making a fool out of him and yourself. Hes' going to be pissed. No wonder he calls me.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:16 PM
This is what I want to say.

What I want is for you to stay away from my H as you have already been told before. You are not friends. You are the skank he used to ****.

I warned you when you threatened me to "tell all my little friends" the "truth"......like you would have a clue what that is....that you didnt understand who you were dealing with.

Now all our friends little and big have been told the truth. I am simply removing that threat from your reperetoire.

As for you mother Im sure she more sick that her D is a lying cheating whore than the fact that I sent her a message. In any case, shes your problem not mine.

Report me to whomever you like. File suit, I look forward to your testimony under oath as well as that of XX, XX, XX, XX and XX, etc. It should be amusing.

Stay away from me and my H or you will be facing an RO.

Janna

Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:45 PM
Good job on getting the facebook exposure done.

1. Your husband's phone number needs to change today. He, really, shouldn't have the phone back at all until this happens and most certainly does not need to hear any of these messages from OW.

2. I wouldn't respond to OW or to anyone that responds negatively to your exposure.

This contact that he's having with OW must stop immediately. No exceptions.

Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Second message:

First you call my H now you are sending messages to my mother and sister? Youre insane. My mother is in her 80's and sick...shes beside herself.

That one, by the way, is pretty telling and my favorite. You, obviously, hit the mark. smile

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Good job on getting the facebook exposure done.

1. Your husband's phone number needs to change today. He, really, shouldn't have the phone back at all until this happens and most certainly does not need to hear any of these messages from OW.

2. I wouldn't respond to OW or to anyone that responds negatively to your exposure.

This contact that he's having with OW must stop immediately. No exceptions.

I have the phone. He already said hes "thinking about getting rid of the phone because its not worth what he pays when he hardly uses it." Baby steps of his to EP's lol. I am just going to tell him I agree.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Second message:

First you call my H now you are sending messages to my mother and sister? Youre insane. My mother is in her 80's and sick...shes beside herself.

That one, by the way, is pretty telling and my favorite. You, obviously, hit the mark. smile

Yes, but I feel bad about that one... her mom I mean. Anyway, almost done .......got kicked out again.....a few more to go.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 07:05 PM
Now people are messaging me re who the other OW were when he was with her....i.e. they want names.

These people are all at a luncheon....former coworkers....not her family. Wife of her former boss who is a friend of mine just messaged to say this is the most interesting luncheon theyve had in months.

So far, the messages are from best buds of her best buds.....so info is prob for her.

I think I will wait to answer that if someone credible asks it.

Janna
Posted By: JessicaClaire Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Good job on getting the facebook exposure done.

1. Your husband's phone number needs to change today. He, really, shouldn't have the phone back at all until this happens and most certainly does not need to hear any of these messages from OW.

2. I wouldn't respond to OW or to anyone that responds negatively to your exposure.

This contact that he's having with OW must stop immediately. No exceptions.

I have the phone. He already said hes "thinking about getting rid of the phone because its not worth what he pays when he hardly uses it." Baby steps of his to EP's lol. I am just going to tell him I agree.

Janna

Instead of holding him accountable for the EPs, you are allowing him to take "baby steps" closer to implementing the EPs. Why???
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 07:33 PM
Jessica

It was a joke....lighten up. Did you read that I have the phone?

My H is working on a list of EP based on a discussion we had last night.

Janna

Posted By: Gamma Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/26/13 10:01 PM
Janna,

Report me to whomever you like. File suit, I look forward to your testimony under oath as well as that of XX, XX, XX, XX and XX, etc. It should be amusing. Well worded, should serve as boilerplate for future user of MB!

Send her BH the name and address of a polygraph expert as well.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: BetrayedP Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 04:24 AM
Good job on FB exposure! I doubt if skanky would ever want to be associated with your WH again.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 02:32 PM
Hey JB,

How are things?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 03:40 PM
Rock on about the Facebook exposure. hurray

Has your WH written a NC letter?
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by BetrayedP
Good job on FB exposure! I doubt if skanky would ever want to be associated with your WH again.

Ha......first everything is ok for now....you would think she wouldnt want to ever talk to him again....but, I listened to her VM to WH before I gave the phone to my father for safe keeping.

Started out angry as heck..control your wife, do you know what shes done now blah blah.

Then....shes crazy, when is she ever going to get over this...we havent even seen each other in 5 years it was a stupid phone call....she needs to tell my mother that? what the hell is wrong with her....how can you live like this

Then....I know last time we talked you said everything is good, but how can you stand this B. she has no right to tell you who you can talk to, youre a grown man.

Then....you made a mistake going back to her. We were so good together. I dont believe all the crap about other women when we were together, shes just trying to hurt me and make me hate you. I dont, I will always care about you.

Then...please call, I will be in your state in two weeks. We could have lunch. I really need to talk to you. I am miserable with BH.....and now hes really all over me.

Please make her stop what shes doing and call. I'm not mad at you.

This woman will be first in line at my funeral to comfort my WH if I go first.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Hey JB,

How are things?

WH is furious, although right now hes just curled up in a fetal position with the dog locked in the guest room.....poor dog lol.

He thew the garbage can, punched a dent in his car, packed a suitcase and then threw it across the garage...that was after a couple phone calls from brothers and email from son who was given a copy of my FB exposure.

He unplugged the phone to stop the ringing from his family. He has 10 siblings lol.

He told me to stay away from him which is fine....what hes supposed to do when hes angry although he is supposed to be civil about it.

After I went to bed, he helped himself to the homemade soup he loves that he refused when I offered it to him for dinner.

So all in all, I think its not so bad.

Janna



Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Gamma
Janna,

Report me to whomever you like. File suit, I look forward to your testimony under oath as well as that of XX, XX, XX, XX and XX, etc. It should be amusing. Well worded, should serve as boilerplate for future user of MB!

Send her BH the name and address of a polygraph expert as well.

God Bless
Gamma

Thanks Gamma...the polygraphs Im researching are in a different state. Anyway, I sent him what she said in the voicemails...his brothers a PI so Im sure he knows how to find a poly if he wants to.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Rock on about the Facebook exposure. hurray

Has your WH written a NC letter?

Thanks BH. Yes, he wrote, I mailed on Sunday. She will probably get it tomorrow or Friday. Snail mail from here to there is ridiculously slow for some reason.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 04:59 PM
Apparently, hunger has gotten the best of WH. He emerged from his den and took the dog for his morning ride/walk.

Snarly, but he asked me what I want for breakfast. He typically gets his out of state paper and breakfast for us every am.

I guess this is progress lol.

Janna
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
I guess this is progress lol.

Janna

Well, yes and no.

Yes that the sh*t hit the fan and that they're getting heat.

No because he is acting like a child with these tantrums, pouting and throwing things. Give me a break!

If I were you, I'd set a mental timer on just how long you're going to put up with living with a child. When that has elapsed, tell him to knock it off, grow the hell up and put on his big boy pants because you are just DONE with dealing with this crap. He brought this on himself and you'll be DAMNED if you're going to sit around and put up with him acting like a stupid child. He needs to make a decision right now, today, on just what his behavior is going to be.

All I know is that if I don't put up with that kind of behavior from a 5-year old, I sure as hell wouldn't tolerate it from a, supposedly, grown man. Wouldn't you say the same?

Assuming his tantrums would continue, I'd tell him to leave.

This is nuts, and, deep down, I think you know it is! I don't know your WH and he pisses me off. Adults behaving badly typically do, though. smile

Draw a line in the sand.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
Then...please call, I will be in your state in two weeks. We could have lunch. I really need to talk to you. I am miserable with BH.....and now hes really all over me.

Tell her BH that she plans on meeting your WH when she comes the, I suppose, week of March 11th.

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/27/13 05:47 PM
Northwood

I know what you are saying. I was out of the house walking the dog when he threw stuff. So...while its bad behavior, he hasnt technically violated his anger mgmt rules.

My rule is to stay away from and not push at him when he is angry. I can go from 0-90 in 6 seconds myself and take him with me regarding AO if I am not careful. I dont want to go there. He is calming down.

Anyway, the cleaning svc is coming shortly. He is cleaning up his pre cleaning stuff lol...getting piles of stuff up etc.
and being more civil.

After the cleaning svc leaves I will tell him to knock it off if it continues.

I sent her BH an email with everything she said.

Janna


Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/28/13 02:59 PM
Exposure has opened up a can of worms with my oldest stepson and Im not quite sure how to deal with it.

WH is not answering his sons calls. Told me to tell them he will call them in a few days.

I sent this all an email telling them this and that their F is ok.

Oldes sent back response thanking me for letting him know but also asking two questions:

"Did you have an A with my father?"

"Did he cheat on my mother like this?"

Thank goodness I can answer the first question no, but what do I do with the second.

I know that technically he did even if only when they were separated. I am also pretty sure she did as well by the same definition. I just dont think its my place to get in the middle of all that.

My first thought is just say the following:

S, everything I know about your parents M is third party hearsay either from you father, your grandparents and aunts/uncles. I think you need to ask this question to your F and/or M.

What should I do?

Janna
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/28/13 08:42 PM
Assuming this stepson is an adult, I'd tell him what you know but without any opinions tossed in.

Just the facts, ma'am. wink

"WH told me that he and your mother were both dating someone else before their divorce was final. I'm not sure of the details, and that was all that he ever told me, so you might ask him or your mom about it as well. I'm sorry that all of this is happening, but let me know if you have any other questions and I'll try my best. Have a good week, we'll talk to you soon."


Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 02/28/13 10:35 PM
Northwood

I get what youre saying, but those are not exactly the facts.

WH told me that they both dated other people every time they were separated. They were separated 4 or 5 times.

I dont know if this Son remembers that although he probably remembers the one just prior to D.

I dont think its my place to be the first person to tell him that if neither parent has.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/02/13 04:07 PM
I finally decided to talk to oldest son on phone rather than email so I was able to ask him what he remembered about his parents D before dropping bombshells on him.

He remembered most of it, so I just told him parents were separated several times and H had told me they both were involved with other people during those times, but that he would need to talk to his F and/or M to verify that.

Would not want to be either one of them, because this son is very judgemental and also went through his own horrendous cheating experience with first serious girlfriend he almost married.

On other fronts, H is working on EP. Things are calm.

OW BH finally contacted me after I sent the voicemails his WW left on my H phone.

He actually apologized saying he thought I was overreacting until I sent those messages. Also said he made OW cancel her trip to this state. Asked me to let him know if I became aware of any other contact.

I also wanted to thank all of you for your help in getting through this.

Janna
Posted By: Darkguy Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/02/13 04:28 PM
Yup skanky portrayed you as some crazy lady. Good news!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/02/13 04:32 PM
The rejected OW can be a very pesky irritant. Like a stinging wasp.
Posted By: BetrayedP Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/02/13 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by JannaBella
I finally decided to talk to oldest son on phone rather than email so I was able to ask him what he remembered about his parents D before dropping bombshells on him.

He remembered most of it, so I just told him parents were separated several times and H had told me they both were involved with other people during those times, but that he would need to talk to his F and/or M to verify that.

Would not want to be either one of them, because this son is very judgemental and also went through his own horrendous cheating experience with first serious girlfriend he almost married.

On other fronts, H is working on EP. Things are calm.

OW BH finally contacted me after I sent the voicemails his WW left on my H phone.

He actually apologized saying he thought I was overreacting until I sent those messages. Also said he made OW cancel her trip to this state. Asked me to let him know if I became aware of any other contact.

I also wanted to thank all of you for your help in getting through this.

Janna

Great that you got through to the BH, because you're right OW was one tough cookie as evidenced by that sequence of voicemails. Hopefully this marks the beginning of the recovery for your marriage.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/03/13 03:57 PM
hurray good job Jana.

That is why it's so pertinent for a BS to get a hold of the AP's BS, because they can be the BEST weapon to help kill the affair, and let you know of any broken contact.

Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/03/13 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Yup skanky portrayed you as some crazy lady. Good news!

Haha.....I'm sure she has, although her BH has talked to me in the past several times and there was nothing about those convos that would make him think so.

She may be able to convince her family of that but probably not him or the other mutual acquaintances I exposed to.

Still who knows, she almost had my H believing I had a drinking problem, a boyfriend, and was a lesbian lol.

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/03/13 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
The rejected OW can be a very pesky irritant. Like a stinging wasp.

So true. Too bad there is not OW bug spray!!

Janna
Posted By: JannaBella Re: Husband Has Broken No Contact - 03/03/13 07:03 PM
Great that you got through to the BH, because you're right OW was one tough cookie as evidenced by that sequence of voicemails. Hopefully this marks the beginning of the recovery for your marriage.

I hope so too BP. I truthfully dont expect this to be the last of her contacts. We'll see.

I think with her some of this is as much about competitiveness with me as any feelings she has for my H. She is a very competitive person and from her viewpoint she has lost other things to me that bug her.....like jobs, workplace situations, etc.

Janna
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