Marriage Builders
Posted By: kinglui Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 01/31/13 12:47 AM
1. My WW has 273 friends on Facebook. Should I expose to all or only those that seem to have a significant relationship with her?

2. OM does not share friends on Facebook. Is there any clever way to get this info? Tried creating a fake account with an attractive woman requesting to friend, but didn't work. I have found six friends by checking the likes/comments that do show up. OM does not have wife, but appears likely divorced, maybe kids. OM broke-up with girlfriend recently, just before meeting for date with WW. OM knows WW has kids and husband (me).

3. I saw a post that someone created a special web page with their evidence of the affair. Is this a good idea? Or is it better to stick with just saying in your messages that you can provide evidence to anyone who requests it.

Hoping so much this saves my family, and scared.

(Married almost 13 years with 7 yr old daughter and 3 yr old son)
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 12:56 AM
Do you know your WW FB password. While both are at work log on and see if you can get on pretending to be WW.

Who else besides FB friends are you going to expose?

How did WW and OM meet, at work?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by kinglui
1. My WW has 273 friends on Facebook. Should I expose to all or only those that seem to have a significant relationship with her?

Facebook exposure is typically intended for the OM, not the WS. I would go through the OM's pictures and facebook page if you can and find all his contacts.

Did you read exposure 101?

Quote
2. OM broke-up with girlfriend recently, just before meeting for date with WW. OM knows WW has kids and husband (me).

How do you know this? Do you know the girlfriend?

Quote
3. I saw a post that someone created a special web page with their evidence of the affair. Is this a good idea? Or is it better to stick with just saying in your messages that you can provide evidence to anyone who requests it.

It is much better to set up a webpage and upload the evidence if you can. It completely ruins any deniability on the part of the affairees.

Did you read through the welcome thread at the top of this forum?
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 01:57 AM
You can do the website and the Facebook thing, HOWEVER. If you do FB exposure, make your list with the highest priority (mom, dad, etc) targets first. Several MB people have, as of late, been barred from FB for a time because of "spamming".
Posted By: lost_and_found Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 07:43 AM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Several MB people have, as of late, been barred from FB for a time because of "spamming".

I am going to set up another facebook account with just pictures of me, my wife and my kids and dear friends in it and will use that account to do the exposure through. Not sure if it will work but will let all know
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 07:51 AM
Melody, I am very happy to see you helping me. I have read many of your posts and have seen how you have provided good help on this forum. I have read Exposure 101 (multiple times). I have read through Dr. Harley's concepts and several of the articles. I have also purchased "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs" and the workbook. I purchased the books several months before I discovered the affair (I was already feeling like our relationship needed help and she was absolutely against counseling). I tried to get my wife to read them together with me to no avail. So I was reading on my own. I discovered the affair 16 days ago; my WW lied to me about where she was and who she was with (I confirmed by checking the location feature in our android phones, and calling the people she said she was with pretending I couldn't get a hold of her). She was with OM at a restaurant 10 miles away from where she said she was (double confirmed by address history in car GPS). I checked phone records to discover communications between WW and OM started about a month ago. Right away I did my own investigating and installed (during middle of night) an app on her phone to forward text messages to a new email address I created. She has been very protective of her phone, taking it with her everywhere, even bathroom. The text messages crushed me and provide evidence beyond a doubt. I did confront her within days after discovering the affair, but she got wind from her friends and had already invented another lie as cover-up. I told her I know with certainty, but she would not admit it directly and then lashed out and said some pretty mean things. The next day it was like nothing had happened, proceed with life as usual. Either she thinks I was only guessing and she foiled me, or she just doesn't care. It seems like she is leading two lives. I am on Plan A right now, trying to make love bank deposits and she seems to reciprocate, but the next moment she is off writing romantic texts with OM. Oddly, she is also doing some nice things and actually coordinating time for the two of us spend together. I was almost going to delay exposure but then when I read the text messages I am crushed. That's why I am here in the forum. I want to make sure I do it right.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Facebook exposure is typically intended for the OM, not the WS. I would go through the OM's pictures and facebook page if you can and find all his contacts.

Thank you for clarifying this. So do I have this right for the people to expose to:
--My mom & dad, brothers, sisters, and my 7 yr old daughter.
--WW's mom & dad, brothers, sisters, close relatives (please note that all of them live very far away as in other states/countries; I could potentially fly her sister here since she is already helping me).
--WW's closer friends
--(WW is stay at home mom and this is not a workplace situation)
--OM's friends (I've only found 6 for sure and a few maybe's; can't seem to discover any family; OM does not have much on FB; I have also used Spokeo to discover possible ex and kids)

Quote
2. OM broke-up with girlfriend recently, just before meeting for date with WW. OM knows WW has kids and husband (me).

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
How do you know this? Do you know the girlfriend

Both his FB page and her FB page showed them together in profile pic. Last Friday WW and OM organized an outing for Saturday (from which WW did not get home until 4:00am). Shortly after OM removed pic of him with GF and the GF did the same and changed her status from "In a relationship" to "Single". I do not know the GF.

I know OM knows about my kids and myself through a few text messages that mentioned us.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
It is much better to set up a webpage and upload the evidence if you can. It completely ruins any deniability on the part of the affairees.

I do know how to do this. Are text messages sufficient evidence or do I need to get pictures too? The messages are quite obvious discussing wanting to see each other again, remembering/wanting kisses, organizing meetings, etc. I was thinking of getting a friend to read them to make sure.

All this is really killing me because I still love her. We have two lovely kids and I always envisioned us growing old together (she used to as well).

Oh yes, and here's the killer... this is the second time. When the first affair happened, I didn't know what to do. We tried counseling and she gave up after one visit. So I sent her on a "vacation" back to her home. I had told her sister and she was going to help me fix it. I was going to join WW 2 weeks later, but then she was in a car accident where she almost lost her life. It felt like the event was God's way of keeping us from falling apart and healing which we did for years, and started a family. But I didn't know about MB and now I know my big mistake was not to expose at that time, even if she had almost lost her life and was in a hospital bed.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 08:12 AM
BTW, MB has helped me a lot to realize how to avoid love bank withdrawals and instead make love bank deposits. I realized that some things I was doing has contributed to our recent falling out. One of my friends has a wife with many similar qualities as mine and brought to light something I did not see (yet). And that is that I was not being assertive enough and in charge, but rather too accommodating and giving choices too often. My sister confirmed it as well. Many women want a man who takes charge and is decisive and even commanding at times. It makes them feel safe. Does that sound right?

I did test that idea tonight by making reservations at a nice restaurant and then coming home from work, and pretty much commanding and helping the family to get ready (in a respectful way). And low and behold, after we came back from the excursion, we had sex. I was somewhat boggled. But then shortly after, she was texting OM again. That's why I wrote the novel above. I figured no matter how much I do right, the affair is not gonna stop without a major event, like exposure.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 08:42 AM
Wow, king, you have done a super job putting your plan together! I applaud your efforts. Your exposure list looks perfect. The only thing I can think to add would be: Go ahead and expose to the girlfriend, she may be able to give you some insight. Would be nice if she could tell you his parents contact info.

What does the OM do for a living? I would plan on confronting him face to face after your exposure and telling him the affair is over. Take a couple of big friends with you. He should hear from you every time he attempts contact.

And lastly, once this goes down I would demand that she end contact. Tell her this will lead to divorce otherwise. I would paint a very ugly picture of her future if this goes to divorce. For example, in many states you can file on grounds of adultery and it is taken into account in the settlement.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 08:54 AM
As far as taking command, MB suggests using the policy of joint decisions to learn to negotiate win/win solutions.. That means that neither of you capitulate to the other. That is the best way to create a happy marriage. For me, I don't want a husband who capitulates or allows me to disrespect him. While your wife will be angry about your exposure, she will greatly respect you for standing up for your marriage.

Probably the best Harley book you could get would be Surviving an Affair. Have you seen that yet?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 08:57 AM
P.s. the reason for the suggestion to paint a very ugly picture of divorce is because she has fantasized of replacing you with the OM with ease. This will burst her bubble.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 12:38 PM
Great job king on the Plan. Let us know when you get ready to drop the exposure bomb.

How did your WW meet OM? Was he an old high school friend and they reconnected on Facebook?
Posted By: schtoop Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 03:21 PM
Quote
And that is that I was not being assertive enough and in charge, but rather too accommodating and giving choices too often. My sister confirmed it as well. Many women want a man who takes charge and is decisive and even commanding at times. It makes them feel safe. Does that sound right?

Don't know about being "commanding", that may overstate things a bit, but the rest of this is spot on.

My new wife is a strong personality and likes to take charge, be in control, and call the shots. I have a more laid back, go with the flow personality, so I am mostly content to sit back and let her lead. She has to do this at work as well as household decisions. But, she also wearies of it at times. She has expressed this to me many times and praises me greatly when I take the lead in some activity or endeavor.

Like you already have done, a night out where you just say "put on some makeup and grab your coat", without her having to make the decision of where to dine, what to do afterwards, etc. is such a refreshing change. Do the same with some household decisions, finance, etc.

That is not to say to do these things without regard to her input, but the flip side is to put all the pressure and responsibility of making decisions (from mundane to major life decisions) on her, which can build a ton of resentment.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Probably the best Harley book you could get would be Surviving an Affair. Have you seen that yet?

I will order that book today and have it shipped to my work. When I ordered the other books, I didn't think I needed one like that, and once I discovered the problem I was so consumed with finding out what was going on. Thanks for bringing it up Melody! smile
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
P.s. the reason for the suggestion to paint a very ugly picture of divorce is because she has fantasized of replacing you with the OM with ease. This will burst her bubble.

I will do my best. My sister who gets along with my WW somewhat, and who was gone through a divorce with a very self-centered and cheating husband, has volunteered to help in this endeavor. She also was helping me the first time.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 05:53 PM
Ask her where she will work and live if this goes to divorce? Will the OM support her? Tell her you will be going for possession of the house and primary custody of the children since she is a serial cheater.

Oh, and be sure and tell her if this happens, that you won't be her "friend." This is every wayward wife's fantasy, to remain "friends" with the cuckolded spouse so she won't feel so guilty for destroying her children's family.

Lay it on thick! grin
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Let us know when you get ready to drop the exposure bomb.

How did your WW meet OM? Was he an old high school friend and they reconnected on Facebook?

I have to say that dropping the exposure bomb really scares me, but I am more and more certain that I have to do it and do it soon. I am nervous about exposing to some friends as our kids go to the same school.

OM is not likely an old friend as all WW's old friends are in her home country or in other states. It is possible though that an old friend moved near us recently. Most likely, though, is that my WW met OM either through an exercise class she is attending or during a girls night out. The first phone communications occurred on an exercise night. It was just before Christmas, so there was a lot going on and I don't think they saw each other until the night I discovered it in January 14. The reason is that my WW is horrible with directions, so every new place she goes she has to enter in the car GPS. I reviewed the addresses and only found the destination logged once in the history. The second encounter was also logged in the GPS. However, she may have lied about girls night and gone out with him.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 06:27 PM
Does OM work at the place where she had the exercise class? And what is at the address in the GPS?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Ask her where she will work and live if this goes to divorce? Will the OM support her?

My church's pastor said a similar thing.

I definitely want to get her kicked out of the family house and away from the kids if she does not want to cooperate and work on repairing our family.

I still love her and want our family to be whole, but I will not live in a loveless marriage on her part! If she does move out, can you please comment:
I have seen posts (not sure on MB or other site) that say it is critical to maintain regular contact for a while with WW to prevent easily forgetting about what she is giving up.

I will follow your other suggestions too. Thanks.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 06:42 PM
Two days ago I found an old apology letter that she wrote me after the first affair and car accident. It made my cry. Would it be a good idea to leave a copy somewhere in the house for her to discover? and remember?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 06:48 PM
Unfortunately, I have been unable to discover where OM currently lives other than a small city nearby and a possible PO Box and previous addresses. Have tried calling people that live at those addresses to no avail. It may be that an ex-wife and kids live at one of them (based on collaborating information on Spokeo people searches). Same thing for his work, although did find out that he was a truck driver at previous job.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by kinglui
Unfortunately, I have been unable to discover where OM currently lives other than a small city nearby and a possible PO Box and previous addresses. Have tried calling people that live at those addresses to no avail. It may be that an ex-wife and kids live at one of them (based on collaborating information on Spokeo people searches). Same thing for his work, although did find out that he was a truck driver at previous job.
Can you afford a PI?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Can you afford a PI?

Yes. MelodyLane, is it important to get OM's address and workplace before exposure?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 08:55 PM
Guys, I was wondering if anybody has a rough idea of what the reconciliation success rate is after massive exposure? Anybody ever successfully use something more similar to an intervention type exposure?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 09:07 PM
King, no it is not important, but I thought that was where she went? Where did she go when you said you found an address in the GPS?

It is a good idea to confront the OM after you expose. They are worms and cowards and don't want the trouble.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 01/31/13 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by kinglui
Guys, I was wondering if anybody has a rough idea of what the reconciliation success rate is after massive exposure? Anybody ever successfully use something more similar to an intervention type exposure?

I would give it about a 50% chance in my experience. And no to the intervention exposure. That would not be effective with a wayward because they are in the fog. It is like trying to negotiate with a falling down drunk. On the other hand, with exposure it helps the WS see themselves through the eyes of others. There is no other weapon that is as effective in my experience.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 02/01/13 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Where did she go when you said you found an address in the GPS?

She met OM at restaurant the first meeting. Second meeting at movie theater. She did not come home until 4:00am that night. My best guess is that they saw a movie, then went dancing, then hung out at a food joint to make-out and talk.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 02/01/13 02:18 AM
Originally Posted by kinglui
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Where did she go when you said you found an address in the GPS?

She met OM at restaurant the first meeting. Second meeting at movie theater. She did not come home until 4:00am that night. My best guess is that they saw a movie, then went dancing, then hung out at a food joint to make-out and talk.
Or his place.

Did the GPS show where she went after the movie?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 02/01/13 05:46 AM
GPS showed only at theater then drove home.

Via text msgs:
I just found out OM lives in an apartment with a married couple. Still don't have location. But my WW did not know this and it seemed to upset her.

Also, I noticed in other text msgs there is sometimes drama/friction going on. However, it usually gets washed away in short order.

I would really like to get OM's home address and/or work address before I drop the bomb. Might have to hire a PI.

Geez, I'm scared of dropping the bomb.
Posted By: catwhit Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 02/01/13 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by kinglui
I would really like to get OM's home address and/or work address before I drop the bomb. Might have to hire a PI.

Geez, I'm scared of dropping the bomb.


EVERY BS is scared of dropping the exposure bomb. But don't stop. It is the thing that will work. Sure wish I had done a better job of it.

You can do this, King... It is the most effective weapon you have.


Posted By: kinglui Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 02/01/13 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by kinglui
Two days ago I found an old apology letter that she wrote me after the first affair and car accident. It made my cry. Would it be a good idea to leave a copy somewhere in the house for her to discover? and remember?

Any input on this?
Posted By: Everthesame Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 02/01/13 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by kinglui
Originally Posted by kinglui
Two days ago I found an old apology letter that she wrote me after the first affair and car accident. It made my cry. Would it be a good idea to leave a copy somewhere in the house for her to discover? and remember?

Any input on this?

Personally, I wouldn't bother. Waywards can be cruel, selfish people who only see what they want to see.

Posted By: Darkguy Re: Exposure Scope Facebook - 02/01/13 08:50 PM
I agree she will justify it in a cruel manner that sets you up for a AO.
Posted By: kinglui Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 05:19 PM
I am finally growing some balls and plan to drop the exposure bomb on Monday. I discovered WW's affair mid-January, but did not feel like I had enough evidence. So I copied and went through cell phone carrier call/msg records, put an app in WW's phone to forward all text messages and phone records, installed a GPS tracking device on her car, researched OM, made some check-up phone calls verifying WW was not where she said she would be, and even took a photo of WW having lunch together with OM.

A few days ago I installed a key logger on WW's computer and was able to crack her FB account. There I discovered messages providing evidence of a long distance EA (still ongoing), and one other PA (started last summer and ended a 2 months before current PA). Then thanks to key logger I discovered that instead of "going exercising and hanging out with girls" that WW had reserved and went to a nearby motel (I verified by calling and asking for her and by GPS tracker). I am very devastated right now, shaking, and feeling like throwing up.

FYI, also 9 years ago WW had an affair. I did not know MB then, but WW was in a serious car accident which put the brakes on that one. I wish so much I had done exposure back then. Since then, we have had 2 children, 7yr daughter, and 3yr son. There is lots more history, but let me get to my request.

Can some one help me with the template exposure letters to handle my situation of multiple affairs? My exposure list is below:

--My mom & dad, brothers, sisters, and my 7 yr old daughter.
--WW's mom & dad, brothers, sisters, close relatives (please note that all of them live very far away as in other states/countries; I could potentially fly her sister here since she is already helping me).
--WW's closer friends
--(WW is stay at home mom and this is not a workplace situation)
--OM's friends (I've only found 7 for sure and a few maybe's; can't seem to discover any family; OM does not have much on FB; I have also used Spokeo to discover possible ex and kids)

Thanks.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 07:26 PM
Additional info:

WW is stay at home Mom. Takes care of children, shows them caring, but also easily frustrated with them. WW has not asked for or pursued separation or divorce. WW thinks she can have both lives. WW's approach is to ignore the problem, be pleasant at home, but lie and sneak as opportunity permits. WW still engages me with sex and outings, non-romantic, but after I learned about multiple affairs, I am scared of STDs. After confrontation, WW said she might need to move out and be on her own, but obviously chicken to do it.

There's seems little hope to save things, considering the multiple affairs and the chance that she may have what Harley calls "An electric fence" personality. However, I want to follow the right steps so that I can ensure I don't have regrets later.
Kinglui, you should stick to one thread so that you can get more responses. You can hit notify and ask the mods to merge your threads. Your exposure list sounds good.

Go ahead and post your exposure letter for feedback. You've waited far too long as it is.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 08:20 PM
I asked for threads to be merged as you suggested.

I have found sample exposure letters on MB, just not sure how to alter them for my situation and whether and how all previous affairs should be mentioned. Feeling sick and helpless, but I know I have to pull it together to keep myself from disintegrating.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 08:23 PM
Here's some irony... my planned D-day is the date of our 13th anniversary. Ha Ha :-(
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 09:39 PM
Evidence of long term cheating, multiple OM, you must STD test for you WW along with DNA paternity testing.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 09:40 PM
multiple post
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 09:52 PM
Agreed. Right now I really need some **Help with Exposure Letters**. Normally I am good at letters, but right now my brain is not functioning too good.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 10:35 PM
Well, I gave a shot at the exposure letter to family and friends of my WW. Rough draft:


Dear Friends and Family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of Exxx and I. As some of you know, Exxx and I have been having problems in our marriage. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on two or more affairs in the past 8 months. One started in the summer and lasted until October with an old acquaintance named Sxxx Rxxx who resides in Sxxx. He does not appear to be married, but does have a young child of his own. The second affair started in December with a man named Axxx Mxxx who resides in Wxxx and works in Sxxx. She met him at a salsa lesson/outing. He is divorced and has 2 young children and an ex girlfriend with whom he broke up after starting the affair with Exxx. This second affair is presently continuing even after I talked to Exxx about it, and she claimed she put a stop to it and said she would work on reconciling our marriage.

She has continued to tell me lies and made secret meetings with Axxx. I want our marriage to recover from these affairs. If you have any influence on my wife, please do what you can to get her to stop these dangerous affairs. I want to stay married and have a loving relationship with Exxx and have our children grow up in a happy, honest, and loving household. These affairs must end for good if that is ever to be accomplished.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with Exxx to persuade her to end the current affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only stop having these affairs and learn to become open and honest. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest Regards,
Lxxx

PS. I can provide evidence to anyone who wishes to see the things that have devastated me.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/01/13 10:36 PM
Suggestions on how to improve my letter? Also, is it a good idea to include OM's phone number? Do I need to state that the affairs were physical?

I also discovered a long distance EA affair through FB messaging with an old childhood friend. I probably should mention this and the guy's name, right?
LINK to exposure letter samples

If you click on "forums" .... you will be able to view all the MB forums. Scroll all the way up and you will see a "notable posts" forum. Lots of good stuff there.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/02/13 08:09 PM
That link has only 2 samples and I haven't seen anything dealing with multiple affairs. Should I rather just focus on the current affair? Family may never forgive if they know about one after another. Still, I feel I have to reveal the multiples to some people.

Probably everyone thinks my situation doesn't have much hope, a lost cause, but I still would appreciate some suggestions.
Originally Posted by kinglui
Well, I gave a shot at the exposure letter to family and friends of my WW. Rough draft:


Dear Friends and Family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of Exxx and I. As some of you know, Exxx and I have been having problems in our marriage. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on two or more affairs in the past 8 months. One started in the summer and lasted until October with an old acquaintance named Sxxx Rxxx who resides in Sxxx. He does not appear to be married, but does have a young child of his own. The second affair started in December with a man named Axxx Mxxx who resides in Wxxx and works in Sxxx. She met him at a salsa lesson/outing. He is divorced and has 2 young children and an ex girlfriend with whom he broke up after starting the affair with Exxx. This second affair is presently continuing even after I talked to Exxx about it, and she claimed she put a stop to it and said she would work on reconciling our marriage.

She has continued to tell me lies and made secret meetings with Axxx. If you have any influence on my wife, please do what you can to get her to stop these dangerous affairs. I want to stay married and have a loving relationship with Exxx and have our children grow up in a happy, honest, and loving household. These affairs must end for good if that is ever to be accomplished.
As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with Exxx to persuade her to end the current affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only stop having these affairs and learn to become open and honest. Please support herus in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest Regards,
Lxxx

PS. I can provide evidence to anyone who wishes to see the things that have devastated me.

You plead for support about 3 times, it sounds desperate, but I guess you are right about now. Let people know your goals and ways that they can help. Also let them know the true impact that divorce can do. The idea is to let others know what is going on, but try to leave your feelings of dirty cheating whore out. You are not writing this to her, and she probably won't care to read it. Plus you are working on Plan A here right?

Dont give your 7yo this letter talk to her and let her know that mommy is dating someone that she promised not to date and it is wrong. Even if mom and dad have fights it is still wrong.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/02/13 09:14 PM
Thanks for the recommendations, Wheels_spinning. Do you think I should change "has been carrying on two or more affairs" to "has had more than one affair" or something else that her family will digest more easily? And should I mention the long distance EA with OM from her home town?

Also, I am thinking to strikeout "that the reason is because".

Still need to figure out letter for OM's friends/family.

Yes, I have been on plan A, and that's what makes it so hard to go ahead with the exposure, because when it's her/me/kids doing things together our relationship of late has been quite pleasant and even seems like we are making progress. But then she continues to lead this second life. Are all plan A efforts wasted as long as the affair continues? Sometimes I feel like she is just doing positive things to passivate me.
Plan A is not a waste -- it shows how good life can be to the wayward. Exposure and then pleasantry from you.

If she does not change (which isn't likely to happen with just Plan A, although exposure DOES have a very high chance of ending the affair, some have ended the same day as exposure) through Plan A, you lead into Plan B.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/02/13 09:39 PM
How does this look for a revised version:

Dear Friends and Family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of Exxx and I. As some of you know, Exxx and I have been having difficulties in our marriage. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that she has had more than one affair in the past 8 months. One started in the summer and lasted until October with an old acquaintance named Sxxx Rxxx who resides in Sxxx. He does not appear to be married, but does have a young child of his own. Another affair started in December with a man named Axxx Mxxx who resides in Wxxx and works in Sxxx. She met him at a salsa lesson/outing. He is divorced and has 2 young children and an ex girlfriend with whom he broke up after starting the affair with Exxx. This affair is presently continuing even after I talked to Exxx about it, and she claimed she put a stop to it and said she would work on reconciling our marriage. In addition Exxx is also presently having a long distance messaging romance with a childhood friend named Jxxx who resides in Lxxx.

I want to stay married and have a loving relationship with Exxx and have our children grow up in a happy, honest, and loving household. These affairs must end for good if that is ever to be accomplished. As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with Exxx to persuade her to end the current affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only stop having affairs. Please support us in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest Regards,
Lxxx

PS. I can provide evidence to anyone who wishes to see the things that have devastated me.
Sounds good to me. When are you planning to expose?

Sample exposure letters to OM family here
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2558474#Post2558474
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/02/13 11:28 PM
I was planning for Monday because kids will be at school and I can be at "work". But that's also our 13th Anniversary. Do you think that's a bad idea? Give it until the following day?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/04/13 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by Wheels_spinning
Also let them know the true impact that divorce can do.

Any suggestions on how/where to get this into my letter?
Posted By: Gamma Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/04/13 11:42 PM
Kinglui,

I'm not sure how many affairs you WW has had, but you asked about what should be included in the letter.

I think you need more than one letter, because you have to consider the audience reading them.

Your WW's family and friends should get a letter detailing all her affairs, with enough info. so they know who the OM are and can help keep them out of your life.

The letters to the OM family, friends and work should focus on OMs role in destroying your family and what he did, they should know enough about your WW to know her if she comes around. I think you want to tailor each letter to each OM as you want to highlight this OMs cruelty.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/05/13 12:07 AM
Modeling after the sample letters, this is what I came up with for the letter to the OM's friends:


Dear Friends of Axxx:

It grieves me to write this letter, but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. Axxx has been having an affair with my wife, Exxx, since December. I believe it is important for you to know this, so you can protect your relationships from him. Exxx and I have been married for 13 years. We have 2 small children and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.

I ask that you use your influence with Axxx to persuade him to leave my wife alone. Also, I would appreciate it if you would notify his family and ask them to contact me via email at kxxx@xx.com .

I would be happy to provide evidence of the affair to anyone who asks.

Thank You,
Lxxx
That is a good letter.
I used the same one when I exposed
Originally Posted by kinglui
Modeling after the sample letters, this is what I came up with for the letter to the OM's friends:


Dear Friends of Axxx:

It grieves me to write this letter, but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. Axxx has been having an affair with my wife, Exxx, since December. I believe it is important for you to know this, so you can protect your relationships from him. Exxx and I have been married for 13 years. We have 2 small children and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.

I ask that you use your influence with Axxx to persuade him to leave my wife alone. Also, I would appreciate it if you would notify his family and ask them to contact me via email at kxxx@xx.com .

I would be happy to provide evidence of the affair to anyone who asks.

Thank You,
Lxxx
Good job.

Did you send it? Did you expose?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/06/13 12:16 AM
Not yet. I am in the process of translating my exposure letters and summary of evidence to Spanish since many of the friends and family only speak Spanish. I know Spanish somewhat, but it is more work than I thought.

I am also considering creating a hidden web page with photos and the summary of evidence (of course I won't say how I acquired the evidence), and then include a link in the exposure letters. I had seen this suggestion on MB. Or maybe it is better (and less time consuming) to just include it as an attachment to the exposure letters to WW's family and then only provide it to those others who ask to see it?

I will need to use conventional mail on the exposure letters to the ex-wife of OM, so I will need to send those out the day before email and FB exposure.

Right now I'm looking at Thursday or Friday for D-day. This will make it easier too in that I will be able to be with my kids over the weekend.

I also ask for your prayers. Thanks.
I have prayed for your family
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/06/13 05:20 PM
Thank you so much, Jedi_Knight.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/06/13 05:39 PM
Can anyone provide more specific advice as to which friends of my WW to expose to?

MelodyLane had previously said that FB exposure is intended for the OP. Should it only be close friends which have regular communication with my WW? Should it only be friends that are considered friends of the family? Should I include friends that in my opinion might potentially enable wayward behavior? Should I include friends that in my opinion might help encourage reconciliation?

My WW has a large family (10 people), but none live near us.

Oh yeah, and any suggestions on the evidence? What level of detail is appropriate to give to family?
Everyone.
Posted By: Wow777 Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/06/13 05:46 PM
Put it this way. You CAN expose to too few people. You CANNOT expose to too many. Thats why it's called nuclear exposure. I wish I had done it completely the first time. Trickle exposure, like trickle truth, doesn't work very well.
Posted By: help4dad Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/06/13 05:50 PM
Like Gary Oldman screams in the movie The Professional:

"EVERYONE!"


Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/06/13 06:02 PM
My list is at 38 people for family and friends, 16 of which I will have to do through FB private messages. Is that getting to a good size? I also have to send to the OP's friends through FB private messages, around 45 if I include the previous affairs.

BTW, my WW has around 300 "friends" on FB.
I exposed to everyone on myWHs FB list who I recognized. Probably 50.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 12:59 AM
I was thinking it might be a good idea to attach evidence to the exposure messages that I will be sending to the OM's friends.

Regarding our family and friends, I was thinking it might be better to just offer the evidence, as the exposure letter states.

Feedback?
Posted By: Viper Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by kinglui
I was thinking it might be a good idea to attach evidence to the exposure messages that I will be sending to the OM's friends.

Regarding our family and friends, I was thinking it might be better to just offer the evidence, as the exposure letter states.

Feedback?
My feedback would be to send this out now in accordance to what you've already been instructed to do thus far. This has already been covered, and it's even covered in your bomb letters. If people need evidence, they will ask for it and you can then provide it.

You are WAY too over analyzing this. Just drop the bomb, sit back and wait for the explosion.

Just get to work.
Originally Posted by kinglui
I was thinking it might be a good idea to attach evidence to the exposure messages that I will be sending to the OM's friends.

Regarding our family and friends, I was thinking it might be better to just offer the evidence, as the exposure letter states.

Feedback?

I thought you already received feedback on these very questions 2 months ago?
Posted By: Viper Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 03:20 AM
Glad to see you're okay Mel. Was actually getting worried about you.
Originally Posted by Viper
Glad to see you're okay Mel. Was actually getting worried about you.

Thanks Viper. smile I won't be here as much as I was in the past, though. I am hoping others - who are familiar with Marriage Builders - take a more active role.
Kinglui you need to get the exposure done. You're over thinking it. Do it, get it over with, and all your concerns about it will go away because you have gotten through with it. It will paralyze you if you don't do it now.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 10:36 PM
Guys, the ball is rolling. I have been working my butt off (letters/translating/collecting contacts/etc). I sent out postal letters today. I am talking to my parents this evening. I will be sending out emails and FB PM's tomorrow. Yup, nuclear explosion tomorrow... stand clear!

Kids will be in school. I plan to pick up my 7 yr old daughter early to talk to her about it.

I have read Exposure 101 again, and The Carrot and Stick of Plan A again, and I plan to re-read them probably several times. I need to stay strong and do what is in those posts.

PLEASE HELP WITH THE FOLLOWING:

I am certain my WS will ask me to whom I exposed. Do I just give her the list of our family and friends (not the OM's f&f)? I read the following in Exposure 101 under common mistakes:

"Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say �ok, I will keep this a secret!!� And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won�t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows."
No, don't help her figure it out. Let them help her figure it out. If you let her know in advance she'll have a chance to spin things.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 11:15 PM
I did not mean in advance. I meant after the bomb and she realizes I told a bunch of people, she is gonna ask me who. The Exposure 101 thread is saying I should tell her. Maybe it is better if I just try to memorize the list and tell her verbally? That way she won't be sure if there is more. Or just give her my list of her F&F?
Posted By: Viper Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by kinglui
I did not mean in advance. I meant after the bomb and she realizes I told a bunch of people, she is gonna ask me who. The Exposure 101 thread is saying I should tell her. Maybe it is better if I just try to memorize the list and tell her verbally? That way she won't be sure if there is more. Or just give her my list of her F&F?
I don't recall that. In fact, I clearly recall the exact opposite.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 11:30 PM
"COMMON EXPOSURE MISTAKES"

"Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say �ok, I will keep this a secret!!� And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won�t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows."

It's in the Exposure 101 sticky about 1/4 of the way down: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583&page=1
Posted By: Viper Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 11:32 PM
This is what I found. I think you may have misinterpreted this a little.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Common Exposure Mistakes

Telling the WS that you got the idea to expose on the internet rather than taking ownership of your actions. Then the discussion becomes �who???� When the WS is told it was Marriage Builders, the WS is forever jaundiced against Marriage Builders, which harms future recovery chances. You need to OWN IT. Saying somebody told you to do it does not work for 5 year olds and it won�t work for you!

Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say �ok, I will keep this a secret!!� And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won�t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 11:41 PM
I'm sorry, maybe my brain is back-firing, but I need help interpreting.

So that means that if a F/F comes back to me and says they will keep it a secret, then tell my WS about that person?

But if my WS demands to know who I told (after the bomb), then don't tell her? If so, then what's the best response to that demand?

Should I care if some F/F decide to not let on that they know, but don't tell me they are doing that?
Posted By: Viper Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/07/13 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by kinglui
I'm sorry, maybe my brain is back-firing, but I need help interpreting.

So that means that if a F/F comes back to me and says they will keep it a secret, then tell my WS about that person?

But if my wife demands to know who I told (after the bomb), then don't tell her? If so, then what's the best thing to say to counter that demand?
You've got it and you don't need to tell her anything other than she'll find out soon enough.

Originally Posted by kinglui
Should I care if some F&F decide to not let on that they know, but don't tell me they are doing that?
You can't control what other people do. Just take mental notes of the enablers so you can steer clear of them in the future. You don't need friends like that.
King, leave her guessing for about a week to give your targets the time to surpse her. If she demands, just tell her you "told lots of people and you should be hearing from them soon enough!" Anyone she has not heard from in a week, go ahead and tell her. But you don't want to ruin the surprise.

Good job on exposing!! hurray
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/08/13 12:17 AM
Guys, I have also taken some precautions:
1. Pepper spray for both my work and home.
2. Forwarded household mail.
3. Reduced cash in joint bank account just to handle regular bills.

I guess I am posting this to confirm these measures are good, and whether anything else is urgent and/or strongly recommended. Should I cancel joint credit card, or wait on that? It has a very high limit.

Or am I thinking too much again?
Posted By: Viper Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/08/13 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by kinglui
Guys, I have also taken some precautions:
1. Pepper spray for both my work and home.
2. Forwarded household mail.
3. Reduced cash in joint bank account just to handle regular bills.

I guess I am posting this to confirm these measures are good, and whether anything else is urgent and/or strongly recommended. Should I cancel joint credit card, or wait on that? It has a very high limit.

Or am I thinking too much again?
If the account is in your name only, and she is just an authorized user, then you could just have the account frozen and have her removed. However, if it's joint, you definitely may want to cancel it. That high limit could quickly turn into a high balance in situations like these.
We're here for you when you drop the exposure bomb tomorrow. Good job and be prepared for her to be mad.

Stay calm when she becomes crazy.

Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/08/13 08:09 PM
Just finished with the main bomb dropping. Still have to work on older affair. I am exhausted and shaking. Now I have to get my daughter and tell her. :-(
Originally Posted by kinglui
Just finished with the main bomb dropping. Still have to work on older affair. I am exhausted and shaking. Now I have to get my daughter and tell her. :-(
You're doing well.

How did it go with DD?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/09/13 04:15 AM
My daughter handled it better than I thought, not sure she fully understands. I followed the MB guidelines on what to tell children. I also talked to the school principal in confidence so that she could advise the teacher for some leniency in case things get inconsistent for a while with my daughter.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/09/13 04:41 AM
I am confused by my WS's response. I expected anger, craziness, something more extreme. However she was mostly sad that it came to this. As expected she is hung up on the fact that I told "the whole world" and of course said after our 13th anniversary last weekend, that she had decided to work on the marriage and thought things were going well. Then I did this. She said she was willing to work on it if only very close friends knew, but now it is over. The marriage will never work. She stayed calm. I responded per MB guidelines that I still thought there was hope to save our marriage. Mostly she avoided me and didn't acknowledge me.

The strange thing was that she took care of my laundry, which she almost never does. Also, she had the kids help her cook dinner, and then even served me a plate. While she cooked with the kids, I cleaned out the dishwasher and straightened up some things in the house, as my effort to remain pleasant.

Some of the good friends that I told wanted to see her, so they set up a dinner and she went out. These are trusted friends who have been aware of our situation for a while. Other good friends have said they will try to talk to her too.
Everything she said is pretty much a textbook reaction to exposure.

"I was going to work on it but not now!"

Just ignore it and keep up your Plan A effort.
Sounds pretty normal.
Originally Posted by Exposure 101
The Fallout
Expect your spouse to be FURIOUS and to make all manner of threats, �I was going to work on the marriage, now I am not!!� �I cannot trust you� �You have to pack and leave!!� �You have ruined any chance you had!!� Do not let this bother you!! Just imagine that you have taken the crackpipe away from the crack head. Of course they are angry. But it will blow over. Don�t laugh, don�t fight, don't attempt to reason with them, and most of all, don�t be SCARED! Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair! The madder your WS, the harder you hit the target!

The goal is to save your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all costs.

Just say, "I am so sorry you are upset.. Can I get you a potato chip?"
Originally Posted by Carrot and Stick of Plan A
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Exposure makes the infidel furious

stay calm
breathe

no one can stay furious forever ... being furious is exhausting ... consumes a lot of energy ... let the furious infidel fume and exhaust his/her self

YOU stay cool

You will hear:

"That's it. We are never going to stay married after what YOU did."
"I am moving out now, thanks to you."
"You are getting OP in trouble at home."
"Now our kids will have a broken home thanks to you."

blah blah blah

You respond to all the raging comments: I am still holding out hope for our marriage.

You stay calm

You don't argue

You don't explain

You do not preach

You do not educate

~and~ you do NOT apologize for standing up for truth and marriage and keeping your family intact

YOU calmly re-state your belief that there is hope for the marriage ....

if things get out of hand ... excuse yourself and go for a walk or a drive ...

remember ... exposure makes the already foggy spouse act insane ... but it is temporary
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 01:24 AM
Should I expect her to come to me to talk about our marriage? How long should I wait? Right now I am just staying calm and pleasant. But I almost get the feeling that she might treat it as she usually does problems or stressful situations... just ignore it.

Most of her family and some friends have tried to contact her, but she is avoiding talking with them. Her family has been very helpful to me. They have good values and want to see us repair our relationship and keep our family whole. The problem is they don't live nearby, so they can only call and send emails to my WW. She has only been open to talk with one friend and her niece. Although, last night her brother called and I answered. I gave her the phone and didn't tell her who it was, so she ended out talking with him and his wife. They said good things and talked to me too. Right now I'm telling them to just send her emails because she will read them.

So far I haven't seen any response from the OMs or there friends. I don't know if she is still in contact with the OM, but I haven't seen any signs.
Originally Posted by kinglui
She said she was willing to work on it if only very close friends knew, but now it is over. The marriage will never work. She stayed calm. I responded per MB guidelines that I still thought there was hope to save our marriage. Mostly she avoided me and didn't acknowledge me.

Did you read my post on Exposure 101 called "the aftermath?" That is where I would go. Since she has told you it is over, ask her when she will be moving out. Segue into a conversation about your conditions for recovery. If you don't lead your marriage in a different direction, I assure you that your wife will have another affair.

A serial cheater is not someone who just happens into an affair. They are someone is actively looking for it. That seems like her MO.

Did you live together before marriage? How would you describe her worldview since it seems she believes she is entitled to have affairs?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 05:52 AM
I tried what you said. I asked her what she will do. The answer is always "I don't know". Then I started talking about the steps necessary for recovery. No contact letter, honesty about the affairs, transparency, etc. Then she got annoyed and said it's impossible to talk to me. So I told her I'm trying to fight for our marriage and keep our family whole, and I thought there is hope to repair things and build a strong love again. She said it's impossible and it's over. So I tell her she should move out if she wasn't interested in fighting for family. She refuses and now says I should move out. Is it time for me to get a lawyer and file lest I lose my kids? It seems the only way she may learn what she has is by not having it. Its it time for plan B?
You're doing good.
Remember that she is in the fog so she isn't speaking logically.
Dr Harley defined the fog as irrational thinking.

You are only a few days after exposure.
You should remain in Plan A.
Posted By: Wow777 Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 01:20 PM
This is definitly the fog that she is in. Be strong, speak clearly, gently and firmly to her. Set your boundaries and stick to them. It could/will get worse before it gets better. Remember, you are fighting to save your marriage and you have to fight the right battles and leave the others behind.

Listen to the advice that you are getting from the vets here. They will help you clear your fog and think/act clearly and see which battles should be fought.
Originally Posted by kinglui
I tried what you said. I asked her what she will do. The answer is always "I don't know". Then I started talking about the steps necessary for recovery. No contact letter, honesty about the affairs, transparency, etc. Then she got annoyed and said it's impossible to talk to me. So I told her I'm trying to fight for our marriage and keep our family whole, and I thought there is hope to repair things and build a strong love again. She said it's impossible and it's over. So I tell her she should move out if she wasn't interested in fighting for family. She refuses and now says I should move out. Is it time for me to get a lawyer and file lest I lose my kids? It seems the only way she may learn what she has is by not having it. Its it time for plan B?
Men Do Not Leave Your Home
king, I would consult an attorney and file for divorce. The reason I say this is because your wife is a serial cheater. This is obviously a way of life for her and it is only a matter of time until she has another affair. I think she likes the benefits of being married while she runs around. I don't think she believes you will ever take steps to stop her.

Is your state a grounds state?
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 07:20 PM
Melody, answering your questions:

We live in California, a no-fault state.

We did not live together before we were married. She went directly from living with her parents (in South America) to living with me. She was 22 years old when we married. She is the youngest of 8 children. Their family financial status was lower middle class.

Now the following is my opinion... When we married she was shy, conservative, somewhat gullible. At the time, the only negative for me was that I thought she had an unhealthy interest in the lives of celebrities, but I thought she would eventually outgrow it. Especially of late, she seems to have a fantasy view of life based on what she sees on TV and reads in magazines, and on her on desire to just want to go out and have fun. She is much more self-centered and is also very preoccupied with looks. She is frustrated that all she had done the last 7 years is be a stay at home mom and hasn't made any achievements (I would think raising your kids to be good people would be an achievement). The problem is she never really committed to being a mom and making the best of it (she would be a lot happier if she didn't resist it). And then later, she abandoned her decision to love and work things out with me. She thinks she missed out on life by never living on her own. Her 2 biggest Love-Busters for me have been independent behavior and dishonesty. I'm sure every figured that already.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 07:24 PM
I think I should give it a little more time before I jump on the legal bandwagon. She has shown interest to want to have a happy family, but right now she resents me so much for telling the "whole world"... it seems she wants an apology from me... HA, no way. She says some of her female friends say what I did is worse than what she did... HA. I think she is just twisting it.
Originally Posted by kinglui
She thinks she missed out on life by never living on her own.

If my math is correct, she is about 35 years old now. Has she become interested in the novel/film Eat Pray Love? That story romanticizes your WW's exact point of view.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 10:30 PM
Yes, 35 years old (wants everyone to think she's 27). And no to the "Eat Pray Love". But she did read "50 Shades of Grey" after a recommendation from another Mom at my daughter's school, which incidentally also coordinates to about the time these affairs started.

She had good standards that were ingrained in her upbringing and she has a person in her that wants to be good, but she has learned how to ignore them. At times she can be such a good person - loving, responsible, kind, pleasurable, but then there's this other person that only worries about herself, sneaks around, and lies. How do deal with that? Some of my friends say she needs a psychologist to deal with her own internal battle.

I still have hope for recovery and a better love than before. I do want that, for myself and for my children. But I am prepared for the worst and know I will have to give up on that hope after a certain amount of time.

In response to Brainhurts... No way will I voluntarily leave my house or kids or let her take the kids. I know that would be a huge mistake.

In response to Jedi_Knight and Wow777... Thanks for those reminders about the fog and Plan A. WW's niece (with whom she confides most) and the niece's mom (WW's sister) are likely flying out here to talk directly with her.

Melody, I know I have to consider too what you said in case I have to protect myself and my children.

Thanks guys. I will try to stay on track.
Originally Posted by kinglui
I think I should give it a little more time before I jump on the legal bandwagon. She has shown interest to want to have a happy family, but right now she resents me so much for telling the "whole world"... it seems she wants an apology from me... HA, no way. She says some of her female friends say what I did is worse than what she did... HA. I think she is just twisting it.

Here is the problem. This is not a matter of a marriage gone sour; this is a matter of having a worldview that is not conducive to marriage. Your wife has had numerous affairs, not because she fell into it, but because she is on the hunt for action.

Since she is a serial cheater, it will take a radical 180 degree change in her lifestyle. She is not likely to do this, since this *IS* her lifestyle. Waiting around in your case will only result in more affairs. Whereas, in other marriages, staying in a longer Plan A could achieve amazing results.

In other words, time will not make this better. Time will only bring you what it brought in the past: more affairs. She feels entitled to have affairs and doesn't believe she has done anything wrong.

Quote
She says some of her female friends say what I did is worse than what she did... HA

That begs the question: are her "friends" saying there is something wrong with her affair?
Has she considered how she will support herself if you divorce? Have you had a reality check discussion with her? Where will she live? How will she pay the bills? Does she understand it is unlikely she will get primary custody since she cannot even support herself?

I would have that kind of discussion with her. I get the sense that she believes you will hang around and support her and take out the trash while she cats around for eternity.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
That begs the question: are her "friends" saying there is something wrong with her affair?

All responses that I have received from her friends offer shock, sympathy for me for what she did, and the hope that we can work it out. Because of her walls, I think some friends know that they cannot tell her too much, otherwise she will shut them out. So for now they are just listening to her, and she is using that as signifying that they are agreeing with her. I'm sure there are other "friends" who have not helped.
Hopefully, she has a friend or two who care enough to tell her she is wrong, wrong, wrong for having an affair. Otherwise, they are not really "friends."
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Has she considered how she will support herself if you divorce? Have you had a reality check discussion with her? Where will she live? How will she pay the bills? Does she understand it is unlikely she will get primary custody since she cannot even support herself?

I would have that kind of discussion with her. I get the sense that she believes you will hang around and support her and take out the trash while she cats around for eternity.

Any suggestions on how to do this conversation? Have her sit down for a calm analysis? Maybe she thinks she will win enough financial support in the divorce? Or maybe that is just my own fear. I will fight to keep the house and the majority of child custody if it comes to that.

I need to figure out how to get her receptive enough to have the conversation all the way through.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Hopefully, she has a friend or two who care enough to tell her she is wrong, wrong, wrong for having an affair. Otherwise, they are not really "friends."

Yes. Someone needs to put that in her face. Unfortunately, if I do it, it is like love buster, love buster, love buster to her.

I think her family first need to step up, then some friends can follow. Her sister was telling me just today that she is prepared to do that when (and if) she flies out here. I have offered to pay for the flight.
Originally Posted by kinglui
Any suggestions on how to do this conversation? Have her sit down for a calm analysis? Maybe she thinks she will win enough financial support in the divorce? Or maybe that is just my own fear. I will fight to keep the house and the majority of child custody if it comes to that.

I need to figure out how to get her receptive enough to have the conversation all the way through.

Sit her down and say "we need to have a talk about what our future will look like because I am looking at legal options and want to know what you have in mind." I would then proceed to paint a very ugly picture of her future. Make these key points:

1. you will be keeping possession of the home and primary custody of the children since you are the only one employed

2. Ask her how she will support herself

3. ask her where she will live and how she plans on paying for it?

4. tell her that when you are divorced you will not be her "friend" but that you have looked into "parallel parenting" and won't be in contact with her ever. <-------this one will flip her out because she imagines you will be her "friend."

5. since she has had so many affairs you will have it put in your divorce papers that your children NEVER be exposed to her affair partners

See, most WW's fantasize about a fantasy divorce where the husband is eased out of the house and replaced with an OM. The poor BH continues to pay the bills, though. The children gladly accept their new "daddy." [in her fantasy]

You need to disabuse her of this notion. Killing this notion may make her more open to working on the marriage with you.

After you spell out that doomed scenario, I would follow up with a rosy picture of how it will be if she follows this program. On the other hand, you could have a happy, romantic, passionate marriage.
Originally Posted by kinglui
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I think her family first need to step up, then some friends can follow. Her sister was telling me just today that she is prepared to do that when (and if) she flies out here. I have offered to pay for the flight.


You need her help NOW. Your wife needs to hear from these people. Her sister needs to pick up the phone NOW and have a heart to heart discussion with her. This is not something that can wait. Will her family not help you at all?
Maybe make it real official by getting a baby sitter and telling her, "we need to have a serious discussion about our marriage tomorrow." Then line up a neighbor, relative to watch the kids for several hours.

Otherwise, you just look like you are waiting around for HER to make a decision. She needs to know that decisions are not going to be made by her, but YOU.
Posted By: kinglui Re: Advice on Exposure for Multiple Affairs - 03/12/13 11:47 PM
Melody, thanks laying it out so clearly. You are an amazing person. I will have a friend baby sit so I can have this talk with my WW.

I will also talk to her sister and niece and a close friend or two about stepping it up, not just listening and making gentle reminders and suggestions.
Good man! smile
I would have some legal looking things in hand if you can. For example, you can print up one of the parallel parenting articles from notable posts: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566139#Post2566139. Also print up something about California divorce law if you can. The goal is to let her know you are very serious about this.
And I would be prepared to answer comments such as "I want to just live together for the sake of the kids" or "we can be "separated" until the kids are grown." "Separated" in foggy-ville means moving into the guest room and living a freeloaders life....on your dime!

Be prepared to have an answer to such comments. Perhaps you could say "but I would rather live alone than in a loveless, abusive marriage. I think that sends a horrible message to our children, don't you?"

Try to anticipate her every response and be ready for that with a response of your own.
Put these legal papers in a FOLDER.
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