My husband and I are 4 years post the emotional affair he had. She was fired, he wrote the don't contact me e-mail, she left the state with her husband has a daughter, my husband has a new job, we have a new house, dealing with the memories....its been 4 years....now new job is bringing up old stressors and I'm trying to use new techniques to build our communication and husband doesnt see the reason for it.. doesnt want to see the past as a road map for our future....feeeling a little frustrated... how do i move forward while dragging him?

What Extraordinary precautions do you have in place to make you feel safe in the marriage?

I have all his passwords, check his phone...he has been for years open...its just the last couple of weeks his job has opend up old wounds....the same conditons work wise have come to haunt us. personally...nothing is the same we...communicate, we have fun... we have worked on "us". the last coupld of nights though i have realized that we are in the same situation he found himself in 6 years ago. he has come home every night the last couple of weeks telling me the stresses, and i have tried to help him through it. tonight, though, we had a horrible fight.... he just said some things that triggered me...and of course i closed up. after dinner, i tried to discuss this with him and it just made it worse.

Just need some advise.... i dont want to fall in to old patterns.. and when i expressed this to my husband he didnt understand. he's trying to connect with me. but we have done alot of work on exposing our weakness in communicating and he wants to fall back on old problems where as i am moving forward to touch him and reach him in his love language..and he still is talking to me in his love language not mine and i have made it very clear what mine is....and when he is confronted he tells me what mine is...but he doesnt even try to reach me in it. dont misunderstand....when it is comfortable for him emotionally...he reaches for me...but if it is out of his comfort zone.,..he wont do it...like tonight...and it hurt me... how do i not read into this and how do i deal with it as it is....

If I understand you correctly, he is not in an affair right now, but the issues that hurt the marriage before his last EA have resurfaced. Is that correct?

Are you give each other 15 hours of undivided attention? Have you read His Needs, Her Needs, and Love Busters?

Just the work circumstances...he finds himself in the same situation at work as far as self esteem and work appreciation. we talked about that tonight and we both agreed that i have handled that differently....but he hasnt. he admitted that it came to his mind that i might get scared about the obvious and it might bring up old wounds...but he did not come to me about this until i mentioned it...and then he got mad and defensive about the way i felt. he felt that i overlooked him and the way he tried to handle it...he didnt handle it....his question to me was" do i have any makers mark left? or have you drank it all.? that was his attempt at showing me he realized i was stressed out.....

I have worked hard to change the way I respond to him and our situations. I don't feel he works that hard for me. we have been married 29 years and together 31. We have 3 kids and the youngest is 21. especially after the last 4 years, we have done so much work on our emtional openess....or i have....dthat it hurts me when i see him blatenly look past me.....or....thats the way i feel.

Did you use marriage builders principles to recover from your affair? Is there something about his field that is stressful, or is it related to work performance?

Just the work circumstances...he finds himself in the same situation at work as far as self esteem and work appreciation.

Okay, what changed at his job recently? New position/responsibilities? Rumors of layoffs? Failure in key areas? Competition from coworkers?

If you can't point to any factors like those, it may be that you are interpreting "cause" and "effect" backwards. It might be that FWH is less satisfied at home, and without that support, the normal work stresses seem more unsustainable.

Are you attending to his key Emotional Needs? (Can you even list them?) Are you getting enough time alone with him, the so-called UA time?

Download the Emotional Needs Questionnaires on this site, and complete them with your spouse. His answers might be surprising, and helpful.

Workplace stresses do not, as a rule cause affairs. (It might be posited that relief of stressful work situations, when accomplished with coworkers of the opposite sex, may lead to personal closeness facilitating affairs, but that's for another day.)

How much UA time are you getting?

Hi fatuggybaby, welcome to Marriage Builders. A couple of things stand out to me. The first is that something your husband is doing is triggering you terribly.. But you are not clear on what it is. What is triggering you?

The second red flag I see is that your marriage never recovered from the last affair. It is clear you didn't take the very narrow necessary path to recover a marriage after an affair. When that path is not taken, resentment grows with every passing year and marriage struggles. These marriages often face second and third affairs because the cause of the affair is never corrected. The Marriage Builders program, on the other hand, corrects the issues that led to the affair and restores romantic love to the marriage.

In order to recover from an affair, the environment that led to the affair must be eliminated. I don't know if that happened. The second most key thing is to restore the romantic love in the marriage.

In order to create romantic love in a marriage, the couple must spend 20-25 hours of undivided attention time each week alone together. It takes 15 hours of UA time to maintain the love and 20-25 hours to create. If you have been using the Love Languages book, you don't know this because it has no program to save a marriage. It is a book on "communication," which is good, but couples who are in love have no problem communicating. And even the best communicators end up divorced. Couples who in love don't get divorced, though.

Do you think he is having another affair?

FUB,

Do you think you have the complete truth, or do you suspect that it was physical as well as emotional? Your Hs guilt and your doubt can keep the affair alive for years.

Was the OWH told?

Who knows about the affair? Do your children know, or are you all alone with this horrible secret?

God Bless
Gamma

Yes marriage builders principals were used. his job is not a stressful job day to day. He is dealing with an issue that has come up. He didn't cause the issue but it is his responsibility to clean it up and fix the problem. So it has been a very stressful couple of weeks.

Dear Neverguessed:

Yes a problem has happened at work. An issue that involves 3 companies that he deals with. he is the program director of the program, so although he did not cause the problem it is his job to fix it. So for the last couple of weeks he has been dealing with product recall from all over the nation, then getting new product out...so...very stressful.

Yes we did the emotional needs questionaire and we do it once a year just to stay up on each others emotional needs. I do know what his emotional needs are and he knows mine.

Dear BrainHurts:

We spend every night together. We eat dinner together at the table and discuss our day. Usually it is that time that work stresses come out. Then we do watch t.v. together and play with our puppy. During this time we usually tease and have fun with each other in our verbal banter. We make plans for our weekend. We always have friday movie night that is just us. We plan one activity during the weekend that is just us then we either plan time with couple friends or our kids.

Dear Melody Lane:

I did follow MB principles 4 years ago. The affair ended, He found a different job, we moved to a new city. We do have UA time. We have made new couple friends and as the the years have gone on, the triggers have greatly diminished. This trigger was the job situation, he is under insurmountable stress and put in a situation where his expertise is being scrutinized and unappreciated, yet it will be him that has to solve the problem and be responsible for the outcome. It will be the owner who receives the accolades. He was in this position at his last job when he saught comfort from a much younger co-worker. So...although i know we are in a much better place, he brings his work home to me,we discuss work, home, and everything inbetween it did cause me a bit of a panic to see that we were in the same situation and we have to make different choices. this has happened everytime we find ourselves in mirroed situations. We do share romantic love....we are in love We worked very hard at finding that love again No i do not believe he is in another affair. He has and remains open in every way

Dear Gamma:
I do believe I have all the truth, it has been 4 years and I do believe it was an EA only. The OWH was never told, I tried every way to get to him but couldn't. Tried finding him online, phone numbers address. Could never find anything. Our children were never told. Two were living outside the home and the last was a senior. That was always my decision, WH said he would do what I wanted. I chose to keep it private.

You are telling us how your husband is stressed from his job through no fault from either you or him.

It has nothing to do with his past affair.

Be the comfort for him at home. Be the safe place. Be his escape.

He is bringing his stress, his problems, his anxiety to YOU, not to another woman. He is relying on YOU to meet his emotional needs right now. This is good. This is healthy, this is what a marriage should be.

Be there for him, let go of the past.

fatuggy, in order for you to be feeling this badly this far out, something is wrong. If recovery were complete, you wouldn't be thinking about the affair and you wouldn't be so anxious.

Having a stressful job does not cause affairs. But I wonder if your husband is pulling away from you emotionally and it is causing you alarm? Is he working long hours? There must be something going on here and that is causing this.. A stressful job should be a cause for you to pull together, not a cause for anxiety that makes you think of the affair.

Do you spend at least 15 hours ALONE with each other out on dates? And I would deduct any TV time and the movie night from that time since it doesn't count as UA time. You are not giving each other your undivided attention if you are watching TV or a movie.

Do you eat dinner ALONE every night or there children around?

I suspect you are not spending enough time together to sustain the romantic love in your marriage. If you are not spending at least 15 hours meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs you won't be in love. And if your marriage is not a happy place, the mind tends to wander back to unhappy times. That might explain why your mind is wandering back to the affair. I would check out these radio clips in this thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=165778&Number=2594724#Post2594724

Why didn't you expose to your children? That is not Marriage Builders. And I'm sure it caused you a lot of stress while trying to recover. They are all adults and can be valuable support system for you and your husband.

As far as the work situation is concerned I recommend a nice back rub or home pedicure for him after he spills the beans. I agree that it is great that he is sharing with you and not somebody else and I understand how the situation could be deja vu.

When those thoughts come into your head, replace them with some good memories. Also up your UA time as suggested.

Good luck.

Dear Schtoop:
Thank you for your encouragement that's what I'm trying to do. It has been a learning curve, but after the weekend, I'm dooing my best to relax into it and not be affected by the past. Your right, he's here bringing it to me. I'm trying my best to be in the here and now and meet his needs.

Dear Melodyland:

It just seems to be the last trigger. We both have been working hard to reconnect, and I feel like we have. During the last four years, everytime a situation arose that challenged us with each other that mimiked a time during the EA it was challenging. During conversation and couselling, the stressful time at work and his needing affirmation from me seems to have been a catalyst. i didn't meet his emotional need at home so he was open and vulnerable at work. yes, it was his choice he didn't want that from me. But, he wants it now from me and yes i am giving it. it just of course triggered me....

Dear Melodylane:

We are doing our best with the UA time, he is working many hours and by the time he gets home he is tired. We eat dinner alone every night and talk about our day. We retir to the family room and while the tv is on play with our puppy and talk about the day or what we need to do during the week and make plans for the weekend. We go to bed every night together and hold each other and fall asleep that way. We have a very fulfilling love life physically. We both are trying really hard to stay connected.

Dear Betrayed:
It was my decision not to expose. My daughter was engaged and getting married in 7 months. My middle child was away at school and my youngest a Senior. I realize it was not MB protocol....but that was the decision I made.

I do and am doing everything I can for him physically and emotionally and mentally. Providing a quiet home with dinner ready and loving him as much as he will let me physically when he gets home. You are right, I am trying to change my response to him and not remember the past. He is a different man than 4 years ago. It has been rough, but this weekend we verbally communicated better about it. That is my number one emotional need and not his at all. If he never talked about this he would be fine but he was willing to discuss the trigger and discuss what could be done about it. I did most of the talking but he listened. I am hoping this was the last big trigger. I feel if we can get through this we might have just made it through.

I do feel though like i expressed to him, he still has no idea how hard and exhausting it is for me to change my responses to him and our situation. I did say to him that change is hard and takes alot of conscious thought. He just wants it to happen. But when we try to change ourselve at the very core, its hard and it hurts and it takes work. I just needed him to appreciate that I was a different person responding to his needs. I do wonder that if he doesn't feel this way....is he changing too? Is it as hard for him...is he putting in the time or just following my lead.....and does it matter?

I am so sorry to hear that. I know what happens when my husband and I neglect our marriage and fall below the 15 hours; we can tell a difference pretty quickly. Whenever anything comes before the marriage, the marriage always suffers. This is why Harley is adamant that the marriage comes FIRST, not the job.

You mentioned that your husband got his needs met outside of marriage, but that is not the reason for his affair. The reason he had the affair is because he has[d] poor boundaries around women. Has that changed? Because you could meet his needs perfectly but if he had poor boundaries around women, he would have another affair. You do realize this, right?

What does he do for you? Has he provided just compensation for his affair?

Here is an observation from a stranger who does not know you ...... (hence, I could be 100% incorrect)

You tend to be vague and imprecise. I was wondering if you are this way when you communicate with your husband? He may seem uncooperative to you because he is completely lost when it comes to what you are asking him to do. Many males are action-verb orientated. If you say "I want you to appreciate my efforts." He may have no clue what action to take. Be clear. Be precise. Be direct. Do not be ambivalent.

Men are not women. It is not uncommon for men to avoid conversations about their feelings.

What is your goal? What do you want him to do?

I have a pretty strong hunch that what you really desire is for your man to love you deeply. Am I close?

Hi Melodylane:
I don't feel we are neglecting our marriage, as I said this is not normal for him to be working so many hours. We are doing our best to make time for each other every evening. Yes, I do realize it was his bounderies with women and so does he. He has made changes on how he responds to women. The ones I required and some he did on his own. I do tell him what my needs are, I don't wait for him to figure it out, especially when we hit a trigger. I am hoping this is our last big one. I feel it was only natural for me to get unsettled and a little scared when this particular instance seems to have been the catalyst for the inappropriate friendship that led to the EA. I do realize it was a choice he made and so does he. After talking this weekend, it seems we both had problems communicating the realization that we both realized he found himself in the same situation. The difference is, however bumbled it was, we tried to reach out and communicate. Albiet we didnt do a great job but it was an effort and as the weekend progressed we did a better job of understanding each other and telling what ist was we needed from each other

Hi Melodylane:

Yes he has provided just compensation. We went through those steps over 2 years ago and I keep an open dialoge on bounderies and needs, both his and mine. Some never change, some change with circumstances.

He talks about his day, I know every womans name and work number that he has to deal with on a day to day basis. I know both his bosses and have met them. He has open work e-mail, phone and I have all passwords. No breaks, lunches, dinners anything with another female. If ever there has to be I will be invited or he will decline, no options there. he is earning my trust. he takes responsibility for his choices with no excuses. He tries to and usually does meet my needs emtionally and physically. If I need to talk about something dealing with the affair he tries to remain open, that hasnt happened in a long while I dont and we dont discuss it as a rule.We never talk about her.

Yes Pepperband I do want him to love me deeply and completly...dont we all? i wasnt aware i was being vague or imprecise..never been accused of that one. But maybe I myself am confused about what I need during this latest and hopefully last trigger. I will try to be more direct. I usually have no problem with that. I do realize my husband and I not only verbally communicate differently, we hear differently. So, yes, maybe I need to listen to me and figure out what is it I want and need from him now, today. He came home so tired and defeated last night, it broke my heart. It's hard to require anything when I see him that way. He feels like he's in a war at work...I want him to feel peace at home. I think he does. He tells me he needs to feel something real at home, and I am his real. That made me feel wonderful, and I told him so..Maybe that's the feeling I am looking for

Do you think he is in love with you, fatuggybaby?

Hi melodylane: Yes I know that he is. It took three years for him to find those romantic in love feelings for me, but yes, last feb. he said one night sitting downstairs "do you love me" and of course I said "yes, very much" and he said, " I love you too" I looked up and he had tears in his eyes and I asked him if he was ok, and he looked at me and said," I realized that I love you, I really love you. Suffice it to say, a good night. He always remained addament that he "loved" me he just wasn't "in love with me" of course a load of crap, I knew he meant "romantic" love..so that's what we worked on for the last three years as the program states, and I know it kind of crept up on him, I think he was actually shocked at his feelings. Since then he doesnt miss an opportunity to tell me how he feels, and he does show me everyday. We work hard on that, both of us.