I am brand new, so forgive me if I do anything wrong. I have been reading hear for a few weeks.

My husband and I have been together for four years and married for two. When he was deployed to Afghanistan last year I was suspicious that he was in a relationship with another woman. He denied this and I had no proof.

In November of this year I intercepted an email, in which he solicited sex from a "professional" in another city. He was going to fly to said city and pay somewhere upwards of $800 to be with her for one hour.

I did not know about MB at this time. I confronted him. he confessed to soliciting, but claimed he would not have gone through with it. He said he had used porn heavily in Afghanistan and had been unable to quit when he returned. He admitted that he had begun to fantasize about acting out the porn. He agreed to counseling. He went into individual counseling and we see a counselor together.

He agreed to everything I asked for. He gave me the passwords to his phone and his email accounts. His computer stays in the common area of the house. He regularly attends the sacrament of confession. He comes straight home from work and does not go out independently of me.

I cannot shake the feeling that something is still wrong. I know that as he is far more computer savvy than me (He worked in programming for years before his current position in project management), he could just have taken activity underground and I would never know. Also after reading here I know he could have another phone I don't know about.

He appears to be doing everything right and is loving to me on a daily basis--but I have to admit I do not believe it.

I do not know what to do. I love him and cannot bear the thought of another divorce.

Welcome to marriage builders.

Have you read Dr Harley's books? If so which ones?

Did you expose his actions to your children/ step children?

I did not "expose" the suspected affair in Afghanistan because I really had NO proof. He has exposed the second situation.

Also, I want to thank you for answering Jedi Knight. I have been beside myself for months. Even though people know, it has meant more flack for me than him. My husband is well-loved and respected by everyone. he is literally the LAST person anyone would ever think could do such things. Until I saw that email, I never would have believed him capable either. Even my friends have asked me what I could have done to "drive" him to porn and prostitutes.

I have tried very hard to make our home and his life with me loving and warm. I have lost over twenty pounds since this happened in an attempt to make myself more attractive. I cannot shake the feeling that there is something more, something worse, like an actual PA with a beloved AP.

Welcome to MB and sorry for your pain that has brought you here.

Put a keylogger on his computer and spyware on his phone.

Also GPS and VAR in his vehicle.

If your gut says something's up, then it probably is.

I cannot install spyware on his phone as it is a gov't. issue phone for work. I can try to get a keylogger. Are they difficult to install? I am afraid if I do something wrong it will tip him off that I am suspicious and just make him be more careful.

Partly I am suspicious because he already seems so careful. If I check his computer history there is literally only ever Yahoo sports and/or the news page. His email box is always clean as a whistle. I mean, who has NO "deleted" or "sent" emails?

Also, his job requires daytime travel going from job site to job site, so I can't know if he is slipping around or legitimately working.

They are very easy to install.

Here Keylogger

Also Voice Activated Recorder

And GPS

Thank you Brainhurts. I sympathize with your username. I seem to hurt all over. I have never felt more horrible...and ugly. Intellectually I know that this infidelity is on him--but emotionally I feel torn up. My self image has never been so low.

I know it's tough.

Please try and remember that he did this. The Harleys will say "there may be reasons for an affair, but NEVER excuses".

How long have you been in Plan A? Dr. Harley recommends for BWs to only be in Plan A for 3 weeks due to the strain on your health.

Bitsandpieces,

Sorry you're here, but you've come to the best place possible. I'm a military IT guy, and you are absolutely right about his cell phone. DO NOT try and access that phone or install spyware on it. Doing so could be a federal offense.

There are other ways to snoop though: Get VAR and put it in his vehicle. Install the keylogger on your home computer. Does your husband use Google Chrome to browse with? If so, he could be using the "Incognito" window wich doesn't save the browsing history. A good keylogger will catch this information regardless.

Infidelity in the military is a crime under the UCMJ, and is a punishable offense. If you find proof of any infidelity on his part, save it. When you do the exposure, be sure to include his chain of command. They will likely try to sweep it under the rug...do not allow this. Make it clear to them that if they do not handle this situation accordingly, you will go to the Inspector General with the evidence.

Even if you don't find actual evidence of an affair, but you find some inappropriate behavior, I still recommend you go to his chain of command. There are very specific rules governing professional/unprofessional relationships.

Is he an officer?

Are the two of you following this?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_attn.html

AJoseJake,

Thank you for the information. I thought that might be the case with the phone!

My husband is a colonel. I am very afraid that even if I had good evidence that nothing would be done. This is especially true because he is about a year and a half from retirement. I have to try to gather evidence. I don't know. Maybe it really is all in my head. I just can't get away from the feelings though.

Before he went to Afghanistan I never saw or felt anything that made me suspicious. It just was the way he started mentioning that female captain just a little too often. Once he was very upset because she had become angry and yelled at him over a decision he made. I thought it was so weird that it bothered him so badly that someone under his command didn't like a decision. And once when I was on skype with him (he talked with me every night he was inside the wire), there was a knock on the door and then she just came right in without even waiting for an answer. She talked to him briefly for just a couple of minutes, but it seemed pretty trivial and she was sooo smiley. I am new to dealing with the military and these things seemed strange--but I wasn't sure.

He came home early when my daughter suffered a health crisis. He was wonderful through all that and then the fatal email. I know he thinks (although he is smart enough not to say it), that since this was interrupted before anything happened that it doesn't really count. I cannot get over the fact that he would go to a prostitute.

Has anybody else had experience with this sort of infidelity? I don't think I should trust that it hadn't happened before! How can I trust it won't happen again? If he doesn't have an actual affair partner I don't know how to combat this. All the material I find is about how to get them to wake up and realize they aren't "in love." I am even more terrified that there is an AP. I don't know how much longer I can keep it together. I will get a VAR for his car and hopefully can get it in stalled soon.

He always listens to the radio in his car. Will that interfere with or cover the sound of a phone call? How sensitive are these things?

Markos,

Thanks for your reply. Since I found MB and started reading I have insisted that our free time be spent together. I think most weeks we do get about 15-20 hours together, unless he really is under a bad deadline at work.

Once we tested negative for STDs and he agreed to give up his passwords, etc. We resumed having sex. I have tried very hard to meet his needs in that area.

He has gone along with everything. One of the things I can't get past is that he just seems BORED whenever we are together--like he no longer wants to make conversation or spend time with me. In fact, it seems like everything since Afghanistan bores him.

Of course he is bored with me. He was in a very intense situation, possibly having an affair which seemed very heightened because of the military bond. He came home to a teacher who reads and sews and bakes. That is probably why he began the secret sexual life of porn and prostitutes, to recover that level of excitement. How can a life with me seem appealing after all that? i am starting to think I am fooling myself if I think I can compete.

I have been reading old threads all morning. I have found a lot of happy recovery stories where traditional affairs have been at fault. I can't seem to find a single happy recovery story for a situation like mine. Has anybody come through something like porn/prostitution and kept the marriage intact. I don't know if I can keep going if there really is no precedence for beating this...

DancesWithGoats
LINK to first thread

Her second thread ~~~> LINK

The difference? Their marriage had lasted 26 years when they arrived on MB.
Your marriage is relatively new. They had two children together. No previous marriage/divorce.

In short, her situation was far worse than yours.

This says nothing about how sexy a wife you are.
You do know that, right?


~~~> To view the entire peanut gallery ~~~> Link to original discussion

Idiots.

Well apparently it is more difficult than I thought to try to insert the bit of quote I wanted to! Thanks Pepperband. Yes, intellectually I know that this should not eat at my self esteem--but it does.

When I asked him for details about the pornography, specifically why he chose the sorts of girls he did when viewing he said,"Well, they were 20 years old and thin."

That is the first time he had ever said anything to me ever that made me feel bad about myself. I was not very fat or anything, but your typical size 10 mother of two with caesarean scars. The impossibility of my situation started to come home to me. In a regular affair, I would be dealing with one other woman, who would be likely to be better than me in some ways and likely to be worse. I am not competing with one other normal woman. I am competing with thousands of barely out of their teens, chosen specifically for their perfect bodies, hair extended, professionally made up, airbrushed women.

Even when I think about the young capt. i suspected him of being with in Afghanistan, she was a beautiful, long haired brunette. The skin of a 28 year old woman, with a body sculpted by endless military work outs.

Since this all happened, and I guess I have been in plan A (even before I knew what it was called), I lost twenty pounds. He has not even noticed. I simply am not of a physical quality to catch his interest anymore. and that hurts. I know I need to work through that, because my self esteem, is my own problem. But right now, it just hurts.

LINK to Dr Harley

Listen, you are worth more than your body.
If you lost a breast to cancer, would WH's legitimate response be to go out to seek two beautiful breasts on another woman's body?



How much does your WH fear losing you?

Of course he is bored with me...He came home to a teacher who reads and sews and bakes.

Absolutely nonsensical. Firstly, in general terms, you just described Mrs. NG, and in my eyes the sun rises and sets with her.

Secondly, as recently as a few (4?) years ago, he fell in love with the same woman who wrote those words, to the extent that he married her.

Any problems he has (hookers, porn, loose Captains) is not to be laid at your feet. His evident "boredom" is actually withdrawal from his affair (of whatever intensity), reducing him from the fantasy-land of TWO women satisfying his ENs, to the real-world (adult) situation of living a faithful life with ONE.

You have every opportunity to turn this around, B&P, by learning the principles, and implementing the practices, here.

Pepperband, again thanks. Yes, I know I am worth more than my body--I just can't seem to get past the fact that he doesn't. As far as whether or not he fears losing me. I don't know. He has not indicated. he has said he wants to stay married and has outwardly cooperated with my requests. It just feels like his heart isn't in it.

NG, maybe that pertains to what you were saying. I don't know if the captain was an EA, PA, or my paranoia--I do know that nothing has been the same since then. He vehemently denied there was anything, but he was actually giddy when he talked about her when he was there. I am not sure what he is "withdrawing" from: the captain, the porn, meaningless encounters with prostitutes.

I don't know how to combat any of this. He seems to be on board, he says he is very sorry, he has cooperated with my requests. But really, my stomach hurts, my head hurts. I don't feel like it's true. And if it isn't it will destroy me.

I am going to get the VAR and get it in his car at the earliest possibility. Without external confirmation I don't think I'll be able to get past any of this.

How can he be withdrawing from the captain if they never had an affair? How can he be withdrawing from porn--it isn't even real! How can he be withdrawing from a prostitute he didn't actually keep the assignation with.

I know I am both rambling and whining. I am sorry. I know I can't think straight now. I haven't in months.

Perchance, does your WH take any medication to assist with erectile dysfunction?

Pepperband, are you psychic? Yes. When we were first together it took a lot of time and patience for us to consummate the relationship. He has been on viagra since before we married. For awhile even with viagra he couldn't maintain. He even tried to tell me he just wasn't a very sexual person. It was one of the reasons why it took me a while to suspect the colleague in Afghanistan. It was one of the things that made the infidelities feel so much worse. He couldn't get sexually attracted to me, yet for some random whore...

It has been better recently. A few times we have even managed without meds first thing in the morning.

I'm not psychic. Just a good guesser. (I worked in primary care for 30 years)
Actually, porn is "easy" for a man with ED. Making love to a real flesh & bone woman is a challenge.

It's not your body that is causing the problem ... it is his body.

I see a love bank opportunity !!! LOL

Do you know what men find the most alluring in the bedroom? The biggest turn-on?



Listen, toots, I am 63 years old. Trust me, the body changes over time and over surgeries can be daunting ... but nothing beats that secret ingredient.

Well now you've made me laugh! That hasn't happened in a while. Actually what you point out is part of the reason I am so concerned. I was always very enthusiastic in the bedroom. He didn't seem to want me. Now I am starting to obsess about whether or not he was with that colleague. wonder if he did meet-up with other prostitutes before I intercepted that email. And I know that he willingly turned away from me and to the image of random women on the internet. I need to get myself together.

Thanks for everyone's responses. if anybody has any other ideas for snooping, getting at the truth, or making me and life with me attractive to my husband again--I am all ears. I seriously thought I was at the end of my ability to keep going on with this until I posted. You all have been pretty much my only support.

B&P,

As others have said, he is unfairly comparing you to his fantasy. Don't let him. Be the best wife you can be (Carrot) while assuring him that you will not stay in a marriage while being disrespected (stick). I wouldn't recommend too much stick right now...you'll need to get evidence. The VAR is a good way to go, as well as a keylogger on the home computer that he uses regularly.

A couple military concerns: What branch is he in? If this Captain came to his room in the evening hours, it is a violation of General Order 1B. If it was during the day, and he's in any service other than the Army, then it was also a violation. A Captain yelling at a Colonel is an absolute no-go. It is highly likely that there was at least an EA here. Even if there wasn't, this relationship was absolutely unprofessional. You are right to be concerned.

His rank actually works in your favor. There is a huge campaign going on DoD wide to rid the services of sexual assault/harrassment. Any sort of innapropriate behavior is seriously frowned upon, and punished accordingly ESPECIALLY when leaders (officers) are involved. This only works in your favor IF you gather the evidence and expose to his entire chain, as well as the IG.

Now, you already know that he solicited a prostitute...he admitted to it. Soliciting a prostitute is grounds for a court martial under the UCMJ. Get the VAR, and see if you can get a recording of him saying this. Even if that's all you get, it will be enough to expose with. If you can get him to talk about his relationship with the Captain at all, that would be even better (as far as the military is concerned.)

Get the VAR, get a keylogger, collect all the evidence and put it on an encrypted thumb drive (I can help you with this if needed), then go full nuclear exposure. After that, you can really start hitting him with the stick, and demand he take a polygraph. That will give you the truth, and you'll be in a much better place to consider recovery. Through all of this, make sure you take care of yourself, and don't let him know that you are snooping.

JoseJake,

Thank you for the information! He is in the Army, but it was during the evening. It just did not feel right. Once he even asked me to send him a care package including the ingredients for brownies because Capt. Loosey-goosey liked to make brownies "for the boys." Yeah.

I think the VAR is the best bet. Once I found that email, his computer is so consistently clean that I think he is not just cleaning it after use, but actually not using it. He could easily have a laptop, tablet, or phone I don't know about. Setting up different emails is easy enough.

How do I get him to talk about these things without arousing his suspicions regarding snooping? Thank you so much for your offer of help with the technology. I'm really technologically challenged. He knows I don't trust him. Do you know if the radio or other car sounds will interfere with the VAR?

Also, Jose Jake (or any of you other guys out there), can anyone give me some insight as to how a normal woman can possibly compete with the fantasy of prostitutes or porn? What exactly does this provide a man that he isn't getting with a real girl? During this plan A I have tried to be a very good wife. I have also striven to lose weight (20 pounds), gotten a new haircut and color, bought some new sexier clothes, I have resolved to never change into "comfy" clothes at the end of the day. He hasn't noticed at all. I've tried talking to him about the things he likes to do and his job, which is very important to him. He just seems bored when he is with me. It's almost palpable.

You cannot compete with utter garbage, and you wouldn't want to. A fabulous wife is so far above a homewrecker or porn star that there is just no comparison at all.

If he is bored, the fault all lies with him. Most likely he is just withdrawn because of the various infidelities.

You say he knows you are suspicious of him. The more you snoop, the more you need to seem relaxed, and like you have let your guard down. Even the most tech savvy wayward will eventually make a mistake if they don't feel they're being closely watched.

Since this may take a while, I suggest toning your Plan A down from being kinda frantic, to a level you can sustain more easily. For example, instead of not changing into comfort clothes at the end of the day, get some that are good for lounging, yet still sexy. Flattering PJ's, exercise clothes, whatever looks good and you can relax in.

Believe me, I have been on the Plan-A-too-hard Team. While putting forth an enthusiastic effort to attract him back, you also want to save enough energy to care for yourself. It's best to care for yourself first, and Plan A with the energy that's left over.

You asked how you could talk to him about the computer and stuff without arousing his suspicions. Well, you can't. Don't talk about anything of the sort while you're snooping. You want him to relax. No relationship talk, no future plans, nothing serious. Happy, light, and fluffy. Once you find something, bring it on here and plan what to do with it.

You don't have to make a big, ugly deal out of it, but avoid those sorry excuses for friends that are blaming you for something that is 100% HIS FAULT!!! Maybe someday they'll understand and be sorry, but you won't be able to educate them or change their minds just by talking, and you need people around who will support you and not tear you down.

You can do this.

Neak,

Thanks. I guess I have been kind of "frantic." I really haven't known what to do. It is draining and demoralizing to be working so hard on myself and have him not even notice. Especially since one brand of his infidelity is very much linked to unemotional physical arousal.

It is also very difficult to fight the impulse to talk about the relationship etc, while I go about the snooping. We have a weekly therapy appt. that I set up before I found MB. If I am supposed to avoid relationship talk, should we stop the therapy? How long should I keep this light fluff stuff up? I need to catch him for sure, but I am afraid he is going to be so careful now that I won't be able to keep doing this long enough for him to slip up.

B&P,

I know that feeling of working so hard and not getting noticed. It's exhausting. Know that until he comes out of his wayward fog, he'll continue to be like this.

I would avoid the therapy entirely, especially if it's with a Military Family Life Counselor. I saw two seperate ones with my STBXW, and all they did was make exuses for her wayward behavior and ask how she was dealing with forgiveness after I exposed. Best case, it's a waste of time. More likely, it will be damaging to your marriage.

Don't worry about competing with porn stars...like Neak and others have said, there is NO comparison. It's pure fantasy land. Do your best, FOR YOU, and you will be better for it.

Yes, cancel the therapy. At its best, therapy is useless while a wayward is still wayward. At it's worst, the therapist may actually undermine the position of the BS in any of a zillion ways. It's best to avoid it altogether.

It's not easy to stay light and fluffy. It's your best path at this point. It will relax his suspicions so you have a better chance to find out what's going on, and is one of the few things he will remember later, when you go into Plan B.

If you planted corn yesterday, would you be upset if you went out today and couldn't pick a full-grown ear? Well, that's what you're doing right now. You're planting seeds that WILL SPROUT later, and WILL BEAR FRUIT eventually. Nothing you're doing good with now is wasted, even if he doesn't notice at this point.

B&P,
I have been experiencing the type of indifference to me and sense of ambivalence to our marriage as you are experiencing for over 3 years. Its been awful. I know I have made mistakes and the vets here have sometimes been unhappy.

The enigmatic nature my husband carefully presented made it nearly impossible to respond to as recommended through technology. But know if your husband is now distant and previous he was not so distant---this says a lot.

The defuse nature of the so-called OW is an odd one to flesh out when its a enigma or fantasy your dealing with.

If your husband has contact in his working day w/Capt this is a problem for your recovery. And as I found out even the renter notion of being open to others in case things don't work out with marriage keeps the fantasy rolling making recovery flat.

He is not allowing you to make love bank deposits. He is projecting onto you HIS pain. Its brutal and he does not get it now. He's too self centered right now.

Just recently after all this time and really more then ready to end our 33 year marriage as I could not stand the ambivalence any longer, I created flash cards with individual questions for my H.

I explained why I needed the questions answered. I said I'd appreciate his honest answers. I assured him he'd be safe to answer the questions when he was ready. ie no disrespectful judgements, selfish demands or angry outbursts. And he could choose to answer what he was ready to answer and continue on at another time if need be.

He decided to answer my questions with radical honesty and all at once. I asked a few more questions to clarify along the way. The atmosphere was almost business like but also caring. When he was done I thanked him.

And there were surprises which did hurt. But the remarkable thing about the encounter now is the relief and transformation that has turned our relationship around just recently.

We can now place the history we are both now aware of into a context where their is meaning for our relationship long term. We have been attempting the online lesson program for 3 years and not getting too far due to husbands 'renter' style.

I know my husbands soul was split in two. He could not connect with anyone including himself. The most amazing things have been happening over the past few weeks in my relationship w/my husband. I know my own approach was not a formula talked about specifically here on MB. But I did follow the principles.

I'm hoping this information will help you B&P. Don't let this situation destroy you.
Your husband is teaching you to hate him. You might have to protect your marriage from foolishness to sustain it long term while he is withdrawn.

And I understand you are in a different phase then I was recently--- but like Neat says this transformation no doubt has come from the fruit that has been nurtured over time.

I would suggest contacting the Company Chaplain and sharing what you know/think/fear/feel.

jmho
committed

Graceful,

I am interested in what you did with your husband. This approach seems to go directly counter to the advice to me to keep things light and not talk about the relationship. Now I am confused as to how to proceed. What sort of questions did you ask? I am curious because I have already asked every question I could think of. He steadfastly maintains all of his current statements from Dday on. What did you ask your husband that caused him to suddenly reverse himself?

I have stopped asking why...but I need him to come clean about the Captain and the extent of his porn/prostitution. Everything I read says that there is almost always more than they first disclose. He hasn't admitted any additional stuff--largely because I do not have proof. Now maybe he really is the exception to the rule, but I no longer think so.

Committed, My husband has already gone to our priest and one other confessor and disclosed. Is there some specific reason I should contact the chaplain? Do you mean his current chaplain on base or the chaplain he saw in Afghanistan?

All in all, I am so confused about how to proceed.

YOU are the one that needs to go to the Base Chaplain. You need to share all the information you have about the inappropriate relationship he had with a person ranking beneath him...and his self proclaimed addiction to porn, along with his solicitation of a prostitute.

I can imagine that you will say you want to avoid that because it risks his job and retirement....and there is a risk. He will eventually solicit sex from a hooker (if not already). Then you won't have to worry about his job and retirement...you will be looking for bail money.


I don't think that you can actually believe him when he tells you what he confessed to his confessor. The confessor isn't going to tell you want he confessed about...so how can you know what he did confess about...just sayin'.

Sidenote: can someone tell me how they can be over there fighting a war and still find the time and resource to surf for porn????

committed

I got this

War isn't what it used to be. Most people deployed to Afghanistan are at work 12-18 hours, but aren't actually working for all those hours. I could go on about this...but I'll just leave it at that.

There isn't anything we can do about people surfing on their own time, using commercial networks. It is what it is.

My nephew was in Iraq for 2 tours. He saw a lot of fighting and when he had time to get online and chat with family he was allowed to do that. He even skype'd with us from one of Saddham's castles and gave us a short tour with the web-cam. If he choose to do a little porn surfing after we talked to him, how would we, or anyone else know and/or police that? Nephew took drugs to wake up/stay awake on missions and took drugs to come down and sleep afterwards. It was like a pharmacy over there. Porn surfing is probably encouraged to get some "release" from all the fighting. Oh yeah, and affairs... you know, what happens in the war zone, stays in the war zone and all that crap.

I concur as a active duty military serviceman. It is encouraged as a coping mechanism not officially but withing the circles of friends. I know of people who swapped porn on HD. Also, know of a soldier who was raped because she swapped porn with another male soldier. The porn was rough sex and he thought she wanted him to do that to her. I am highly disappointed that the military doesn't prosecute adultery like it says in the UCMJ. It's a double standard and affairs are encouraged. Did you ever file an IG investigation?

Save your questions for recovery. You'll get nothing but lies now. Later, when he's serious about winning you back, he'll tell the truth. In the meantime, asking is an even bigger waste of time than therapy.

Confrontation is a totally different thing. Once your snooping turns up something solid, we will help you come up with a plan to confront him. The reason you shouldn't just leap in and confront him instantly is that you may want to use that source of intel again. You'll need to confront in a way that protects your source.

I did not mean to throw you off as far as what can be done now. You likely do not appreciate the sense of time within my post to your thread.

Your mission these days is to take really good care of yourself. Your husband does not have the capacity to meet you needs or care for your marriage with him right now.

You need to see this chaplain to help expose and end the destruction to the individual (your husband) and the violation to you as well as his country. After all, this is what 'the enemy' has sent him home with.

Its YOUR duty now to deal with this enemy. Your husband is down, he is impaired. He can't appreciate the lovely things you do, the lovely way you look and all you represent right now.

When your H is shaken out of the fog you will be able to question him more thoroughly and perhaps find meaning in the experience for your relationship so you can go forward.

But for now, his military branch needs to help him through this difficult time in an affective manner. Don't let them be part of the problem-- make them be part of the solution.

I'm not part of anything military but I appreciate your husbands fellow soldiers here at MB are trying to help you. Take their orders for or on behalf of husband and this country.

Its appalling our military are encouraging their own destruction to 'get by' short term. ***EDIT***

A reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is to help posters understand and implement MB principles. This is not a personal opinion venue. If you can't do that, please refrain from posting.

Bits,

I am a retired Army Colonel, married to a retired Colonel who retired as a consequence of his affair. Our marriage is recovered as a result of using MB plans.

I just read your entire thread and believe that your husband indeed did have an affair while deployed. Much of what you have described, less the solicitation, sounds alot like my husband.

Does your H still work with this Captain? Are they in the same unit? Keep snooping. I think it is likely that you will turn up something current that has gone underground.

AM

Thank you. I will respectfully refrain.

Porn surfing is NOT encouraged...it's against the rules. What people do on their own time, on their personal laptops is hard to police.

Affairs are bad. Nothing degrades the morale and cohesion of a unit quicker. These are big no-nos, but some people are good about keeping it under wraps.

Thanks for all the replies. It has been a stressful couple of days. I just now managed to put the VAR in his car. Hopefully that can turn up something solid since it's impossible for me to get on his phone, and his computer is as clean as a whistle.

To answer a couple of questions: I have a call into the Chaplain here. I am waiting for a call back. He does not work with the captain now. He did not go over to Afghanistan attached to a unit--but was individually moved for the position. She is not in his unit here. So at least he does not work with her.

I have been trying hard to keep up the Plan A, but it is difficult. He is distant and moody. Yesterday he picked a fight. I am sorry I took the bait. It devolved down to talking about the captain which I did not want to do as I have no proof and so cannot expose or do anything so I find it mentally exhausting. Basically he just wanted to tell me how he continues to be mortally offended that I ever suspected him of anything. At one point I was crying,reminding him how in the midst of it when he knew I suspected an affair he had requested I send him the ingredients for brownies because the Capt. liked to make brownies "for the guys." His response: "So what, you were sending me a box anyway!" Unbelievable. Even if nothing was happening why would he not have the sensitivity to know that if I am suspicious that would not help? It felt like flaunting. I mean, basically he was asking me to finance and make his affair partner's domestic cozying up easier. If I am not badgering about this, but trying hard to be good to him and not love bust--why on earth is he continuing to bring it up? Any ideas I can use to deflect this sort of thing so I'm not drawn into these fights? I can't stand this level of anxiety for much longer.

Anyway, I need this recorder to turn up something solid, or if by some miracle he is telling the truth--put my mind at rest.

Bits,

Good job on getting the recorder placed and calling the chaplain. Will you be able to check the recorder on a regular basis?

I can tell you don't have much of a "poker face". Don't talk about this woman and don't lose your temper. You cannot be drawn into a fight if you don't fight. If you need to, leave the room saying something like, "I can't talk about this right now. It is too upsetting."

You said that your H picked a fight. What did he say that started the fight? And you said that your H does not work with OW. How far away is she? Is it possible he can still see her during work hours?

During his A, my H was terribly moody and distant. The rest of the family joked about dad's "gassy look" and before D-day, I suspected all kinds of ailments, from stress at work to cancers. He looked terrible, gaunt and hollow.

Also, before D-day, my H used to talk to me about OW. He told me jokes that she had said, about her family vacations, about her daughter. I now recognize that affairs are much like drug addictions and H's talking about OW was the equivalent of "taking a hit off the crack pipe". Just talking about OW got him "high".

Finally, while activated and living away from the family, my H watched a great deal of porn. H later said that it would make him feel good for a time, then he would feel really badly, watch porn again, feel worse. It was a downward spiral, adding to the self-loathing.

Have you read "Surviving an Affair" yet? the material about lovebusters, especially angry outbursts?

AM

Bits,

Were you ever able to get a keylogger on the computer?

Does your husband travel away overnight?

Were either of you married when you met?

My apologies ahead of time for the t/j, but I need to share.

Armymama,

I appreciate and love your posts.

Thank YOU. May you always stay on MB.

Thanks, BrainHurts. I hope there is some good to come out of the three years of misery that H and I experienced before we re-built our great marriage.

And thank you for all you do! And may you always stay on MB as well.

AM

As a very wise TV character said many times, "Anger is a choice." (Judge Hardcastle)

He can't fight with you if you don't fight with him.

Hello everyone,

Thanks for your continued posting and support. I won't be able to check the VAR every night, because basically I have to wait until the middle of the night when he is sleeping and get up and do it secretly. I need either solid evidence he is carrying on or evidence that he is doing nothing.

His computer is squeaky clean so far. I have a question. When I found out about the porn I insisted he install a porn blocker. Now that I am trying to catch him and trying to make him at ease so he will make an electronic mistake if something is happening--should I tell him it's okay to take the porn block off? I feel hesitant to do that because(for reasons I can't really describe)knowing he was hooked on porn disgusted and killed me in a way that the suspected affair partner didn't. I don't want him to return to that. But if something else is happening like a real underground affair I need to know.

Also, regarding his seeming boredom and UA time. I want to reconnect with him. Too much of our time together is spent reading or watching TV. I know that is not optimal. We need to have more actual interaction. I have been trying to arrange activities that I know he likes but am being rebuffed. For instance, he loves sports and in the past he excitedly took me to baseball games. I mentioned that the local team was having a game this week and maybe we could go. He said no, he wanted to wait until May. Why he wouldn't say. The weather forecast this coming week is for the high sixties and seventies--so that can't be it. How am I supposed to get back to being his favorite RA partner if he will not do things with me? Even things he love lose their appeal for him if they are associated with me.

Armymama or any of the army guys (or other guys)if your husband used porn heavily, how was it for him to quit? Did he have withdrawal? Guys, how long before your attention turned back to your partner?

Thanks

Any suggestions?

Bits,

First, leave the porn blocker on forever. There is no reason to take it off and even less reason to tell him that you are taking it off.

I don't think my H had withdrawal from porn. Before we retired, we had alot of time apart with schools, TDYs, deployments. H used porn when we were apart, but very little when we were together. H quit entirely after I found out he contacted his affair partner 16 months post d-day. H stated that he thought viewing porn was a precusor to adultery and he would never look at it again. That was more than three years ago.

I don't think your H is in withdrawal from the porn. He may be in withdrawal from an affair partner or in my view, is more likely in contact with an affair partner. I think that would explain his reluctance to do anything fun with you. As I said earlier, during his A, my H was very cranky. He would accompany the family on ski trips, trips to amusement parks, etc. But, he would wear his "gassy look" the entire time. He actually was having some fun in spite of himself, but refused to show it. I had no idea I was doing a plan A at the time, depositing into his love bank. Is there something you could get him to do on the spur of the moment?

Has your husband been depressed the entire time after his deployment? Does he have PTSD? My H had undiagnosed PTSD, a TBI and resulting memory and cognitive problems that went all the way back to his deployment in 2003. He didn't talk about any of it with me until the summer after I discovered his affair in 2008. Some of it was very disturbing, even to hear.

AM

Inviting him in a happy and upbeat way still deposits RC $LB units. Just in the same way that if a person is refraining from SF with an active wayward, they can still meet the SF EN by looking sexy, flirty touching, and outright telling their spouse what they have to look forward to during R.

It's impossible to meet a wayward's EN's fully during an active A. The important thing is to show that you're willing to meet those needs in the future, and to meet as many as they will allow you to do in the meantime.

You can even work in a little admiration into your invitations.

"Hey, sweetie, wanna go golfing with me tonight? You look amazing in those shorts..."

"You want to catch [fill in the name of a movie you both would like] later? I always have so much fun going out with you."

"Let's go to that baseball game. You can wear that pair of jeans that makes you look so hot."

Pretty much anything can be turned into a compliment.

Thanks everybody. Yes, my gut said to keep the constraints on the computer.

My husband just emailed me at work and asked me to go to the opera Saturday (one of my favorite things). Of course I said yes! It has been so long since he made any effort to do something together.

I am wondering though, wouldn't it be easier for me to make LB deposits doing something he really likes? I don't want him to resent me for partaking in my activities.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Bits,

If he asked you to go, then go and have a good time. Maybe go to dinner before or after. With what you have been saying about his behavior, I think it is very positive that he took the initative to ask.

AM

Pour on the admiration.

Come R, you would want to avoid any activity you like that can't be POJA'd. Right now, he offered, so take him up on it with enthusiasm and appreciation.

It's a good sign that he's thinking of you at all. He may grow more unpleasant at times, the more he thinks of you. If this happens, don't worry. Him being in a state of conflict is a positive step in the right direction, even if it's no fun to live with.

Ditto

My husband just emailed me at work and asked me to go to the opera Saturday (one of my favorite things).



What a charming thing for him to do! It would have been startlingly positive if he had agreed to go at YOUR invitation, but to raise the proposal himself.......

Hello everyone,

Saturday my husband and I had a really lovely day. We went to the opera, shopping, and dinner. He was very loving and attentive all day and sunday as well. Today, it was like someone flipped a switch back again. He set his phone down today right after using it and then went outside. I know it stays on for five minutes (before you have to re-enter passwords), so I grabbed it and quickly looked through. Everything from December 19 until April had been wiped. There was nothing suspicious on there from April on.

Also, the VAR has not turned up anything. The fact that his computer and phone are so squeaky clean as to be nearly empty still really bothers me. Also, his phone never leaves his pocket, so I wonder if he left it out on purpose knowing I'd look at it and there would be nothing to find.

Finally, how can he go from loving and hyper-attentive to vascillating between distant and surly. I didn't take the bait this time, but absent proof--how long do I deal with this?

Him being angry is a good step, as I said before. It means he is no longer focusing all his thoughts and energy on the OW. And I do believe there is an OW, in addition to whatever prostitute problems there may also be.

He is growing conflicted, no longer sure what he wants to do. That instability will make him pretty much unbearable. Bear with it anyway, for a short while, and then go to Plan B.

Without appearing to, keep up your vigilance. Sooner or later he will make a mistake.

Thanks Neak. I do appreciate the feedback. This forum is virtually my only support. It's very strange feeling to feel like the movement between loving and angry is a good sign. It feels counterintuitive. But it does make a degree of sense, if he is having fun with me it must be harder for him to think of me negatively or cast me an unworthy.

I am trying hard to be good, gracious, and loving as a wife. I am proud I did not take the bait and snap at him back. Toward the end of the evening Monday I just said "You seem worried or upset, is there anything I can do for you?" That was the end of his snapping.

A little piece of me is afraid he will not slip up. If I never get proof I cannot confront and expose if there's another woman. There was already exposure about the other incidents. If I never get to expose how can we heal? Is it possible there isn't an OW? Could the withdrawal from his other sexual proclivities cause these same reactions?

I am just trying to figure out these features and am hoping that this gets me individual replies. I want to let every person who has posted know I really appreciate the help.

Thanks Jedi!

Thanks Brainhurts!

Thanks Markos!

Thanks Pepperband!

Thanks Neverguessed!

Thanks Jose, especially with the IT and military advice.

Thanks Tranquildark.

I agree with Neak. I believe there is an OW that he is talking to and hence the conflict. Sooner or later, he will trip up. Keeping all the electronics squeaky clean takes effort and waywards are pretty lazy.

It sounds as if you had a great weekend, making lots of lovebank deposits. And I think you said the right thing to end his snapping.

If you are curious about the withdrawal question, why don't you email it to Dr. Harley? They will either ask you to be a caller on the radio show or will answer your email on the show. Do you listen to the show? It is really good. Just click on the listen now button on the right side.


AM

Thanks Armymama. Dealing with the military is new to me. It's nice to know other military marriages have succeeded under these conditions.

I saw this was asked, but never answered.

Did you ever file an investigation with the IG?

No, I never filed an investigation with the IG. My problem for me all along is that I have no evidence. None. Over a year has passed now. This is why I am so distraught about the computer, phone, and VAR showing nothing. I am starting to feel like maybe I am crazy.

Hello everyone,

I am so confused right now. I still have found nothing. These last couple of weeks have generally seemed quite good. Then quite suddenly: No more lovemaking--nothing in the last week almost. Also, we were supposed to go to a moving party for a friend of his at work. Then he decided the day of that we should go to the symphony instead. When we were on our way I asked him if he had let them know and he said he had. But, I do not ever remember hearing him call or seeing him text.

We had been doing so well. I was really hopeful. Now, I am very worried again. I still have nothing but a feeling. A bad feeling. Nothing on the VAR. Nothing on the computer. He has been home on time every night. The fact is though I know his day is flexible. I am so afraid that I have just driven something deeep underground. The loss of physical contact feels like a palpable rejection.

I feel so frazzled because the techniques have turned up nothing, yet I am more sure than ever in my gut that something is not right.

If you can afford a PI, that would be a good next step. If not, think of trusted friends or family that you could trust to follow him discreetly, and NOT CONFRONT him even if they find something.

By far, the most likely explanation is ongoing C, so go ahead and let that assumption guide your actions into Plan A. You can't expose without proof, but you can do the "carrot" part of Plan A. If there's nothing going on, it will only be good for your M. If there is something, it will cause even more conflict with the A.

I know you feel rejected right now. Please consider this: if he is cheating still (which he almost certainly is), a refusal to have sex with you has pretty much nothing to do with you, and everything to do with an increased conflict within WH's mind.

See, the only way he can screw around with someone else, and come home and have SF with you, is to build a high partition in his mind. As long as that partition is there, he can think only of her when he's with her, and you when he's with you.

Like the bulkheads on the Titanic, this partition can't go all the way to the top. When something makes one life slop over and mix a bit with the other side, it causes nearly unbearable tension for the WS. Sometimes it can be a specific event, and sometimes it can be the early stages of disintegration of the A. But it gets harder and harder to keep the two lives separate, and that leads to a state of conflict.

Which is a good thing.

My guess is he is having so much trouble NOT thinking of you when he's with OW, that he's having to be very strict with himself to limit his interactions with you so he can maintain his protective bulkhead. Plan A will only make his job harder and harder, as it should.

Given enough time the bulkhead almost always crumbles on its own, and anything good you do in Plan A will help that crumbling process along.

I am Neak's mom. She is telling you to do a lot of the things she did during her husband's affair. These are not easy things to do, and there isn't any immediate payoff for most of it, so doing it can feel useless and bad. Don't question yourself if you think (or know) you didn't do something "right". Don't beat yourself up over a temporary glitch in your plan A. What you're doing is tough, and apparently interminable! And I'll tell you, straight up front, that I could never have done what she did for the sake of marriage recovery. I could barely watch what she did, being more of a clop-you-upside-the-head-right-NOW kind of person, myself. So allow yourself to be human, to make some mistakes, to feel frustrated, because what you're doing here is a towering challenge, and you are a special person for even making the attempt.

tl

MOM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmph! He has NO idea how lucky he is to still have his head sitting on his shoulders, and not on the floor between his feet!

tl

P.S. Where are you? I need somebody to do my braid.

...we were supposed to go to a moving party for a friend of his at work...

One of two things going on here:

- POSOW was going to be there
- someone else going to be there knows of his affair

Neak,

Thanks. It is very difficult to try to keep doing plan A. I don't know how much longer I can. I guess I have to though. In some way then it's good I don't have proof yet...if I melt down now I'd just look crazy! I will try to stay strong and positive in my interactions.

Hi Neak's Mom! I have read her thread and she was very strong. I hope I can persevere.

NG,

That is exactly what I was afraid of! Do you think it would be a good idea to send a note to the friend's wife saying I was sorry we missed their party? I do not believe that he actyally told them we weren't coming. Would it possibly shake something loose, or, should I just let it go until I can get together the cash for the PI? That will take some time as he will notice larger sums of money missing? As it is he asks me what I bought whenever I get cash out of the bank.

Umm....sorry, "actually."

I need tech help. I just had a thought that is very revealing. Maybe his computer is so damned squeaky clean because he isn't using his computer. My daughter and I both have laptops at home. I cannot believe it didn't occur to me that he may be using mine! i could have sworn I left it in the dining room yesterday, but this morning I found it in the family room. I have a password on it, but really, he knows me well. it probably wouldn't take too many tries to guess.

Is there a way to put the keylogger onto my computer too? Do I have to repurchase it to use it on another computer in the household. I certainly will if I have to. I am sorry about my total tech ignorance here. Any help would be appreciated.

Good thinking! It's definitely something you should check out, while still keeping your mind open to all possible avenues. It may be as simple as them only contacting each other via affair phone, if your computer comes up clean, too.

If it turns out that he wasn't using your computer for himself, he was probably snooping on you. There's nothing like being a cheater yourself to make you distrust everyone else around you. He may assume that you're up to no good, either. When AJ was a WH, he would regularly accuse me of sneaking around, meeting another person, having an A...in short, all the things that HE was doing.

Good thing the Irony Police didn't know where he lived....

Depending on who you purchased your keylogger with they may give a deal with buying another keylogger. I would email them. You could also take it off one and add it to yours.

Thanks Neak and Brainhurts. I suppose sneaky people are better at sneaking Neak! It wouldn't surprise me ifhe were snooping me. Crazy since it took me how long to catch onto him...Brain, I have just sent an email asking about the keylogger. I appreciate all the continued help and support.

B&P

Take careful note how he is snooping on you, if he's snooping. He may check more on the same avenues that he is using himself.

Something finally showed up from the snooping:

1. He used MY old match.com account (from when we were dating!) to search for women in a nearby town he frequents for work reasons. Although there were no emails etc. sent so I don't know what the purpose of looking at these profiles was.

2. There was a twitter entry on the web browser history of the spy program I put on the pc. Weirdly the keylogger did not record the twitter event. When I put the URL in the PC, the page came up with an error saying that access was denied.

I am not tech savvy at all! Can anyone please help or offer other ideas?

Bits and Pieces

So he's trying to find hookups?

Are you using Google Chrome?

BH,

Yes, I think he is trying to do so. Why on earth look on match though, if you couldn't contact those people? Can he just not stay away from looking? My PC has firefox and explorer. I don't know if he uses google chrome or not. Do you have to select it? Is there a way to use it so the keylogger wouldn't pick it up? I don't know anything about twitter, but aren't tweets public? How could people communicate that way if everyone else will see them?

This is so frustrating! He knows everything about technology and I know nothing.

Bits and Pieces

I'm not that great with the innards of technology, either. That you've gotten any information is good, though I don't think it's enough to confront him on yet. Keep your eyes open. Sooner or later they will slip.

If Google Chrome is downloaded then it runs incognito. I would email your support for your keylogger and ask them.

I deleted my Google Chrome while I have the keylogger running.

Yes tweets are sometimes personal but you can also send private tweets.