I found out 10 wks ago that my husband of 4 yrs was having an affair. He only admitted it when I found lots of photos. He says it had been going on for 6 months and she was living in a rental property we own. She is a former secretary of his. I am pregnant with our third child and due in 9 weeks now. I have very difficult pregnancies and our first two children have been born very early. He claims to want to fix our marriage, and I am desperate to. I have read all the books and he finished his needs her needs and part of surviving. He acts like we are fantastic, but I just dug through his iPad and found where he has been having some contact with her. He is a smart man and I have suspected all along that he had no intention of ending the affair, but just hiding it better. He claimed I was not meeting his needs sexually, which I find difficult to believe, but for the past ten weeks I definitely have been! I just have no trust for him at all and I don't know how to move forward. I am depressed and I know that it is not good for this new baby, not to mention trying to raise two toddlers while exhausted and sad. I just don't know what is next or how to move forward. I want my marriage at all costs, but I do not want to be a doormat who just continually accepts lies.

I took the liberty of adding paragraphs for our eyes (readability).

Welcome to MB.

There is only one small part of your story that I think you need to change as soon as possible.

This:

The bad news:
You cannot force WH to change.

The good news:
You are in control of your attitude.
If your attitude is one of desperation, your WH has you over a barrel.
Desperation will cause you to capitulate and tolerate more than necessary.

You cannot make good decisions if you are afraid.

Your 'to do' list:

NOTE: Next post changes the order or priority!

1. Tell your medical provider all about this crisis. You need STD testing. You need support for your emotional roller coaster.

2. Exposure. Tell everyone all about the infidelity. We call this "exposure". Do this all at once without any warning to WH (wandering husband).
If OW is married, or has a boyfriend,he is to be told right away.
WH's parents are a very important exposure target.
If your children are older than 6 years, they need to be told in age appropriate language.

3. Have a close friend or a relative help you select a family law attorney. You need to go see an attorney without threatening WH that you "might" see an attorney. Seeking legal help will not end your marriage. It might cause your WH to realize you are a woman to be reckoned with. You need to be 100% aware of your legal rights if WH should leave you, or threaten to leave you. You cannot rely on a liar to protect you. You must protect yourself.

4. Get to the bank. Transfer all the money from any joint account into a new account. Waywards cannot be trusted when it comes to driving the family into debt.

Can you do this? Just 4 items to begin.

Right now, because you are pregnant, you should not focus too much on Plan A. Plan A is VERY stressful. You cannot affort to add to your stress.

No love-busters, but other than that, focus on self care and self protection.

OK?

Here is the most sensible order of business:

Start with the bank. It is easily done. Stealthily secure your money.
Then - expose. Everyone all at once.
Then go to a lawyer for advice. Become educated, not fearful.
Then go to your health care provider. Ask for help.

Almnac,

I'm brand new here (without a clue) on my own thread. But I agree vehemently about getting tested for STDs! I have no proof, but I am pretty sure my husband has just gone underground too.

The only other thing I can say is that I am so very sorry for all of your pain. No one deserves this.

Almnac - Newcomers always ask:

"Is there any hope?"

Yes.
Absolutely.
Yes.

You will see and hear a different side of your husband because of him being illogical in his thinking. This was or is heavily influenced by the A, and you must follow these steps to have the best chance of him seeing the reality of what he got involved in.

It will take time, but if done right there is the chance he will come out of the "fog".

Protect yourself and children when he is not thinking right.

I confronted him about what I found today and he just lied about it. His lies didn't even add up. He is an attorney and very bright, but is apparently also an egomaniac to think that he wouldn't get caught. I do believe that he genuinely loves us; I just think that he also believes that he deserves to 'have it all'.
We have an iron clad prenup that pretty much states that if we get a divorce, I am screwed. I can fight it, but it would cost a fortune and I can't even think about going there yet. I'm a stay at home mom to a three and one yr old with a new baby soon. I'm not eager to move to an apartment and put my kids in daycare. Beyond that, I still love the jerk. He is a very broken human and I just made the fatal mistake of believing that I could love him well enough to fix him.
I have no idea how to get him to wake up. He will just hide it better. I made him sell our rental, but I'm sure he just moved her somewhere else. I was devastated by this affair before finding new evidence of their ongoing contact today- now it's just that much worse. My health is so volatile right now that I physically can't pack up the kids and leave.

Why did you confront him? Waywards will always lie.

Did you read the links in the first thread?

Did you read what Pepperband posted to you?

Who have you exposed to?

Did you read the posts to you outlining what your next steps should be?

No one suggested this.
I made some suggestions, all of which you did not acknowledge.
That's about it so far.

Right, I was referencing plan B.
While I appreciate the advice, it's just not very applicable right now. Compliments of my prenup, there is no use in either of us fighting about money. My moving funds is the equivalent of declaring war with my litigator husband, and I could go to the hospital in 10 minutes or 10 weeks (pregnancy induced hypertension), so starting a war right now is not advisable.
No point talking to an attorney as my father is one as well and has counseled me to some degree regarding this in the past. It's all pretty cut and dried and none of it is good for my children and I.
Exposure- my best friends and mom know, but there is really not many other people to tell. He runs his own firm, so no employer. He really doesn't have any friends outside of work colleagues and if I tell them I am jeapordizing his reputation and therefore our livelihood. He has no contact with his family. Our children are far too young. So who do I expose to?
The STD testing was the first thing I did as it affects the health and delivery of this baby.
I told him that I want to see our cell records and he said I could, but I'm afraid to. I know it will be bad and my blood pressure was nearing hospitalization level yesterday. I feel like I need to see an MB counselor in my area, but other than that I don't think I can do anything until after baby.

I realise that your health status is critical and you are in no condition to fight, but you must not reject every piece of advice that you came here to receive.

I think you need to talk to Dr Harley, urgently. This is not the first time he has come across someone with such a critical issue. Please send an email to the radio show, today. He will talk to you, for free.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Email the radio show as mentioned above.
They will get back to you.
You will get good input.
It is free and from the top source at marriagebuilders.

OK. You said you have about 9 weeks to go, right?
Then what?

Seriously???

Your Father is an attorney that has counseled you...
but you signed an "iron clad prenup that pretty much states that if we get a divorce, I am screwed"...

what's wrong with this picture?

committed

Will be on the radio show tomorrow.

Yes, 9 weeks to go, though at 31 weeks today, this is my longest pregnancy to date. I would be shocked if I actually go full term. I don't know what happens after the baby, I just know that right now every time I try to talk to him or deal with this much at all, my blood pressure shoots up and I am jeopardizing my health. I would like to investigate further to be certain that he is continuing this relationship and if so, then I suppose there is no option other than Plan B.

The prenup- my father was not happy with the terms and helped me negotiate it to some extent. I would be provided for in the normal manner (in TX that means CS, but no alimony). I would receive some funds, but it would still mean moving and having to go to work and have my children in daycare. I know that is not the end of the world, but it is not how I plan to raise my family.

I am a child of divorce and even as an adult I still suffer the repercussions. Most notably my younger sister killed herself a year and a half ago, not entirely due to my parents divorce, but it was probably the most substantial factor. I do not want a divorce. WH is a fantastic father, a great provider, and I love him. I look around me and realize that he is far, far from the worst husband I know. But I do not want to live my life not trusting him and with an aching heart.

You're still a long way from needing to worry about a D.

Also, I'll save you a lot of trouble and snooping. He is still in contact. Is he breathing? Then he's still wayward.

How do I know?

If this had ended, he would be doing EVERYTHING in his power to show you that he was no longer in contact. So just base your plan on his waywardness, and proceed.

I would still recommend seeing an attorney, in the order that Pep outlined above. Ask about a separation, and what that would entail.

Also, at whatever point recovery is considered, I would make one of your top conditions a new agreement that replaces the prenup, and gives you whatever you need should he be unfaithful again.

PS Consulting with an attorney is not the same thing as worrying about a D. In fact, usually it's much closer to NOT worrying about a D, because then you know all the different possibilities.

If you signed that atrocious prenup against the advise of your father, perhaps he can still tell you what the ramifications of a LS would be. But please don't even consider remaining indefinitely with an active wayward just so you can continue to be a SAHM.

Being a SAHM mom is wonderful, and best for the kids....unless it means remaining in the house with an evil, mind-sucked alien, while their mother goes slowly crazy. He will either change very soon and enter R with you, or you'll need to separate yourself.

So I spoke with Dr Harley before, during and after the show. Sadly, even he sees little hope for my situation, at least at present. The option of my WH spending 20 hrs a day with me is not possible due to his work. I can't kick him out right now and don't want to b/c my kids would be devastated.

Dr Harley just said that until this baby is here and I am back up and running that we need to be room mates. So I get to have that charming chat with him tonight.

Emotionally, it's where I have been anyway since Saturday when I discovered they were having contact. He continues to lie about it, and of course that makes it much worse. On Sunday I combed through our cell phone records for the first time. It appears that they have had no cell contact since D day, however, I discovered that they have been in extreme contact as far back as the records go, which is December of 2011! He told me that it had only been for 6 months. This means it was going on during my last pregnancy as well and I have no idea how long before that. He claims that he speaks to and texts all his employees on their cells, and I know this to be true, but not nearly to the extent that is evident on the phone bill. He absolutely will not be honest with me about it. As if anyone contacts their employees 3-4 times per day and up to 25 text messages per day via their cell phone! I told him that he might as well ask me to believe there is a unicorn in the back yard.

I have no trust for him, and I am shutting down out of self preservation. I lost 6 lbs over the weekend and that is not good for a pregnancy! I can't see where this will be beneficial for our relationship, as a Plan B might, but it's simply the best I can do at present.

I just re read part of SAA and now I'm confused. Am I not still supposed to be in Plan A? It's been 10 weeks. He is totally having his cake, but going by the examples given in the book, it's like I'm supposed to keep going for a longer period. Of course, the man himself said to be room mates. Urghhh. Why is this so damn hard and why is it happening now?!

Women are only supposed to Plan A for up to six weeks (men are the ones meant to go for longer, as they are more resilient than women in general when it comes to the pain of Plan A). I would say it's time for Plan B for you.

I'm guessing the reason Dr. H said to be roomies till after the baby is born, is so that you don't have to deal with the stress of Plan A *OR* of a separation when your health is already so fragile.

You should not be in Plan A currently, given your health and the risk to the baby. As Pep said,
This does not at all undermine the universal advice to Plan A and then Plan B. It just acknowledges that, when it comes to the choice between your own health (and your baby's!) versus doing Plan A, your health has to win. You are a daughter of God, your body is His temple, and right now you are also the vessel for one of His most precious gifts to you. All that comes first.

It is far better to avoid lovebusters, avoid stress, and go straight to Plan B after your baby is born, than to sap away vital energies for a textbook Plan A.

The news about the length of the A is bad, but not surprising. He hasn't told you the truth about anything else. I'm sure it's extra hurtful to find out that it was going on when you had your last baby, too. There's nothing wrong with you, it's all him. And now that you know about it, you're going to be taking action to rid your life of the curse of adultery.

Yes, this is about his troubled soul not your deficiencies. Though none of us is perfect in marriage....he is the one who made choices to betray you BUT.......you only knew what he wanted you to know back then.

Focus on your pregnancy and bringing the new baby into the world with joy and deal with the mess your H made later.

As Neak said, not love busting but no focusing otherwise on Plan A as you continue your most important task of creating a new life.

Rise above it all for now. Rise above the drama to do the magic a woman does while preparing for a baby's arrival.

Thank you, the support means a lot. I told him yesterday on the phone (when he asked what was wrong), that I love him, but I just don't trust him. We did not have the "room mate" talk last night, but that was how we acted. He is being cold towards me, and I'm not sure why. I suppose b/c he is realizing that I have not bought this latest round of bull and he is not off Scott free? So I guess this is our course until baby.

I read your story yesterday and loved it! Very inspiring. Why are men so unoriginal? They all say and do the same things. Anyway, getting to read about the hell you have lived and how happy your family is now gives me some small measure of very needed hope.

Whoa. As a man I will try not to be offended by this. I know I am not like most men albeit maybe not totally original either.

If you meant a wayward man then I would say you need to change the word "men" to "waywards". Because waywards ALL say and do the same thing. Like it's a script or something.

The unoriginality of which you speak is more properly assigned to the category of "waywards" than to the category of "men". There are plenty of non-wayward men out there who would never inflict this kind of pain on anybody, much less our spouses. People do switch sides. Once the fog has dissipated, your WH may address the crushing guilt of what he has done by changing into a faithful spouse. My wife did. Your situation is not without hope.

I concur all waywards say the same things its called fog talk. Read other threads when you get a chance and your eyes will pop out of your head. I agree with Dr. Harley as he says these WS are like drug addicts. Heard your radio show talk and I am very sorry you have to go through this. I will pray for your family as there isn't any advice that hasn't been given to you.

My version of SAA recommends 6 months for plan a

Apparently the book was revised when Dr Harley saw that women cannot emotionally handle plan a for more than a couple weeks and we have outdated versions of the book

I am very sorry that your sister commited suicide.
I understand that you don't want a divorce.

One thing I have learned is that we can only control OUR behavior and actions.
We cannot control the behavior of others.
If your marriage ends in divorce it is your husband that is choosing divorce through his actions. Divorce is the natural consequence of adultery.

Apologies to the decent men! I did, of course, mean WH's. The "fog talk" is so shocking in its lack of originality and believability. My WH is a very intelligent man, so I would think that he could lie better, or at least have the decency to see when his lies are so transparent, but no.
We talked today and he told me that he was confused by my mixed signals and didn't know how to treat me. Fair enough, so I told him that we just had to function as parents , but not romantic partners until this baby arrives and then we can revisit our options for restoring our marriage. He says that this pause makes it difficult for long term planning (we are considering a move to a better school district), and I told him that he should have considered that when conducting his affair.
He is closer to being honest regarding the breaking of the NC rule, but still adamant that the A only lasted 6 months. I don't believe him, but is it important? I want honesty, but SAA seems to focus more on how to fix your relationship than on revealing all the details of the A. So should I try to get over that lie? I suppose it's a moot point for now.

Dr. Harley is for open and honesty in a marriage the fact he is still lying is a huge red flag. Has he done a NC letter? As long as he is lying you are not in recovery. Follow Dr. Harley's advice for the same of your health.

No, he has not done an NC letter. It was kind of impossible at first, b/c she was in our rental property, but is not impossible now. Once we resume our fight for this relationship after baby is born, that will be one of the conditions.

And a post nup with some teeth.

Agreed Neak.
I suck at this! We had an event last night we had to attend and we totally ended up being touchy and lovey. Then no SF, and this morning he is totally cold, I'm sure due to the no SF after a nice evening. It is mixed signals, and it's torture b/c I want so badly to sweep this under the rug and have a loving relationship with my husband. I know that would only perpetuate the cake eating, but it still sucks. With no SF over here, I'm certain he will be just that much quicker to run to OW which is why he claims he started seeing her in the first place. Doesn't matter b/c I'm sure he has been seeing her since D day while we have been awesome, so whatever. Sorry for the rambling, just frustrated. Will continue with covert investigation to try to verify what I already very strongly suspect (and all of you confirm).

Update- the good news is that I am now 34 wks pregnant and at a point where the baby is out of danger! This is a first for me, and worth celebrating. My health is pretty stable and I could carry this baby full term.

The longer that WH and I are in this current FR, the more all of your advice makes sense to me. There has been no new evidence (despite my diligent and escalating snooping), except for further confirmation that the A began far before when he says it did. I read the FR thread and bells and whistles went off the whole time. He lies about tiny, insignificant things. He is being a model husband, but is too busy to finish SAA or begin the 5 steps workbook. If the A was over, he should be wanting to work as hard as I am to fix us. Instead, he gave me two trips for our anniversary, claiming that UA is the only thing we need to work on.

I have my list of EP's ready to go for after baby, and either he can agree to meet them, or it's Plan B. The one he will flip over is adding an infidelity clause to our pre-nup. But it's the only single thing that I can think of that will make him take this seriously. I do not want a divorce, but you guys are right that being desperate will not fix my situation.

My dilemma at the moment is that I had planned to have my tubes tied in the event that this baby is delivered via C section. I will have 3 children, and that is plenty! Now I have concerns about having to get a divorce and the possibility that I may meet someone in the future who would like to have another baby. All of that seems like sci-fi right now to me, but I am 32 and life is long, and, as I have recently come to realize, you just never know what your future holds!

I am incredibly depressed to have to be thinking this way. I am worn out by this (you all said it was stressful), losing hope every day and just about tapped out. I am so ready for this baby to be here so that we can move forward, the purgatory is killing me.

Obstetricians like to do tubals immediately after delivery because the enlarged uterus, with its attached Fallopian tubes and ovaries, is high up in the pelvis, and easy to access. However, it does NOT have to be done then, so putting off your tubal ligation immediately post-partum does not mean you can't have it done later, and just as well. Do not have a tubal if you're ambivalent like this. Reversals are expensive, invasive, and have no guarantee of success.

PIH can develop into pre-eclampsia, eclampsia, and DIC (a clotting disorder that can lead to death). Your OB needs to monitor you more closely while you're under stress. I hope you haven't kept this a secret from him. I have seen, and cared for, women with all of the above conditions. Some of them lived; a few of them died. Please be careful.

tl

Thank you for your insight. I remember from Neak's thread that you work in this department.
Yes, this is my third baby with this OB and she knows what is going on and is all over me! I had pre-e with DS, pre-e and a placental abruption with DD, so we are waiting for the other shoe to drop with this one. Pre-e itself doesn't scare me, but the abruption was truly terrifying. I check my BP several times daily and email her.

That's good to hear. I'm getting old(er) and my memory isn't hot, so most of the patients I remember are the ones where something bad enough happened that it sticks in my mind in spite of my age and cognitive decay. One of the comparatively few successes that I remember involved one of my fellow nurses, who came in with sudden bleeding at about 34 wks. By the time they got there, the bleeding had stopped, and she had no more after arriving.

A couple of hours later, the OB (and my favorite, too!) wanted to send her home, and the nurse was, like, "OK, whatever you say, Doctor." So I argued with both of them, citing her distance from the hospital, the large amount of blood she had passed at the family barbecue, etc., and that I thought they should take the baby now (repeat c/s) while everything was looking good, instead of waiting till the next crisis. After some "spirited" discussing, we headed down the hall to OR, where it was discovered during surgery that she had an abruption over 1/3 of the placental surface. I'm very pleased, whenever I think of it, that there is a little boy alive today, at least partly because of my stubbornness (which doesn't get a LOT of praise, ordinarily)!

I'm assuming your previous abruption was a critical, unanticipated event, and that you don't have a diagnosed marginal abruption this time around, because if you do, you and your OB should have a heart-to-heart chat about sexual activity. I've been disabled for 6 or 7 years now. Sometimes I miss L&D. I ALWAYS enjoy talking about it...not that you need to have a crisis just to keep me entertained!

tl

Yes, last time I was on bed rest at the hospital when it occurred (thank God). The surgeon said it was the most complete abruption he had ever seen and that if we had been at home, it was likely that neither of us would have made it. After that, we were happily done having babies, but God had another plan!
L&D are a special breed! The nurse who delivered my first baby and I are good friends now and I have her schedule from now until my due date saved in my phone. I was a birth center fail out, and having a very medicated induction was not something I was prepared for. Could not have had that boy without her!

Plan B? This morning I found out that our rental property is being listed by OW's boss, so essentially her! How does he think it's ok that she make money off selling the property that was their love nest?! It was so easy to find. This most definitely, in no uncertain terms, breaks NC. I emailed him the link to the web page with the listing had OW's name all over it, but that's all. Of course my BP is crazy right now. I'm starting to think that the best thing is to formulate a Plan B letter today and have my Mom come up to help with the kids and kick him out. I physically and emotionally have reached my breaking point. I have no evidence of a continued affair, but in my gut, I am positive. I don't think I can continue this Happy Family charade while finding out damning evidence every time I start digging. I can't handle him loving on me and telling me how wonderful I am, while I am sure he is still seeing her.

We a now in a terrible plan A/B. We are living in the same house, but in a very chilly room mate relationship. This is what Dr H recommended b/c of my health, but it's very hard. The crazy part is that it is so hard not to be nice to him, touch him, etc. what is wrong with me? I gave him a modified plan B letter, and I am glad. It was really good to lay out my requirements for recovery (one of witch is adding an infidelity clause to our pre-nup), b/c he just wants to sweep everything under the rug while continuing his affair. Now he knows what it will take to get back to a recovery state with me, and he is miserable (as am I). On Monday, barring any health complications, I'm taking the kids to my Moms for several days. It's 3 hrs away, and I hate to be that far away from my Dr and hospital, but I need to get away from him, and he needs to miss us. I'm not afraid he will just run to her, b/c I don't think he every quit doing that. He is just as likely and free to do it on a Tuesday at 3 as he is if I leave for awhile.

Here is my question- is it too late to expose to OW's people? I never did, but this crap about her being our realtor for our rental property really hacks me off, and I feel like her boss has a right to know. I it were my name on the business, I would want to know. While I am at it, I finally, after much digging, found her 19 yr old son, parents and a sister or cousin on FB, so I could expose to them too. I know this is all out of order and I should have done it before, but I couldn't find them , and in all honesty, have been afraid to light the fuse on this bomb. After some time and a lot of reading, I feel like exposure is necessary (he is still deep, deep in the fog, yesterday he lied to me about pancake syrup). But is my timeline so wrong that I should just skip it now?

Question #2- he cheated on me when we were first living together, before we were engaged. He denied it, but I had pretty clear evidence. I decided to just get over it (thank you former self for your incredible ability to bury head in sand). I just read the serial cheater thread today, and a lot of it adds up for my WH. I can contact that OW and after all this time, I kind of think I could just take her to coffee and ask her some questions. I do not have the same hate for her b/c WH and I were not even engaged and I feel like even though she knew about me, he was feeding her a nice string of lies. I would like to know more abut their relationship to shed some light on what is wrong with him, but will that just complicate current matters? Ignorance is bliss! Thoughts?

I would still expose to OW's side, definitely yes.

About him cheating before you were married, is it cheating when you weren't even married? What is your purpose to talk to her?

So Dr. Harley wants you to live with your WH and BE in Plan A? Does Dr. H know your WH is continuing his affair? Are you sure he is still in his affair?

What was Your WH's answer to your conditions for recovery?

You are unfortunately experienced with the symptoms of worsening PIH. You can watch for them at your mom's house as well as you can anywhere else. And you check your BP several times daily, I think you said. If I were in your shoes, and I wanted to go, I would do it in a heartbeat...of course, I am a TERRIBLE patient, so I'm not actually TELLING you to follow in my non-compliant footsteps, but if things are stable for you, pregnancy-wise, I don't see anything making it so it's not safe for you to get away for a break.

tl

P.S. Don't lie on your back. It makes your BP go up. How close is your mom's house to a hospital?

She is not far from a hospital. If my BP starts getting crazy, I can always head home.
Thanks

Well your health is definitely your #1 priority. So if your mom's place is less stressful, then do it.

When is your due date?

Also, if you find out he hasn't ended the affair and won't commit to your list of EPs for recovery then Plan B will be so much healthier for you.

Due date is 6/25, but this is the most pregnant I have ever been by 4 weeks. I have delivered both of my kids at about the 30 week mark. Yes, my mom's is way less stressful and my family there will fight over who gets to take my 3 yr old DS for the day!

He claims to have ended it, but I don't think you can end it and then use the OW as your realtor to sell your love nest. Clearly breaking NC, and according to all the MB tales, a solid indicator that he is deep in the fog. He now has my list of EP's, but they are steep and he is yet to tell me that he is ready to undertake them. Praying that some exposure this week will help break through the fog. At the very least, it will make her have a really bad week, and I think she is about due for that.

So when are you dropping the exposure bomb? Please try and not get yourself worked up. Your health is too important.

Today. Very nervous.

please let us know how you're doing!

I got all my exposure done, and then my letter to OW. Must say that it feels pretty good. Haven't heard back from anyone and I may not, which is totally fine. I feel confident that she will hear about it, and that is the main thing. I just sent my letter to her. I really hope she doesn't respond at all. What can be said? WH has called twice just to check on us, so I'm pretty sure he hasn't heard from her about it. Bracing myself for any reaction at all from him. Exposure scares me, but i am a believer in the MB principles and all the vets here, so im glad its done!
Other than that, just pretty darn pregnant and cooped up with my babies due to these nasty storms.
Thanks for the check in!

Wow! Fantastic!

So who was on your list?

Exposure IS scary when you do it.

The response to it can (and usually is) vile from the wayward.

Keep in mind that the more vile it is .....the most damage it did to the affair.

May your pregnancy maintain its true wonder and magic and try to put aside the angst and focus on the amazing experience of creating a new person for our planet. One who will be able to live a good life with a sane mother who is true to her children and family.

Try to not let the nightmare you are in define you and your family (no matter the future result).

[/quote]
Wow! Fantastic!

So who was on your list? [/quote]

It's hard to tell b/c I can't access her friends list, but from my digging I think I found her mom, dad, sister/cousin, son and boss. The boss doesn't appear to use FB often, so I am following up today with an actual letter. With the stunt she pulled trying to list the loft, her boss has a right to know. I hate to drag her 19 yr old son into it, I think he has had a rough time, but she had no qualms asking about my children.

I am going to try again on FB today from a different computer. It's not strange that none of them responded to me, but she didn't either (kind of think she would- she is not very bright and has a nasty temper), and WH definitely has not heard about any of it.

You'll know when he hears of it - hold onto your hat! Just keep Reading's words in mind, that the angrier they are, the more damage you did to their little fantasy life.

My OW letter:
Skank,
I'm sure you know very little about me. WH has probably given the totally-believable-cheating-husband lines about our having a cold marriage and only staying in it for the kids, etc, etc. Just from googling you, it would appear that we have very little in common aside from my husband. Let me give you a little background; when I was a senior in college my parents endured a nasty divorce after 28 years of marriage due to my fathers flagrant and repeated adultery. He was a deacon in a baptist church and taught Sunday school, and the whole thing was in incredibly traumatic and painful. My younger sister was at the volatile age of sixteen when this occurred, and she just kind of never got over it. Next month will mark the two year anniversary of her suicide. Given my personal history, I have always had very strong feelings about adultery and divorce.

So you can begin to imagine my horror when, pregnant with our third child and at risk of hemorrhaging at any given time, I found photos of you naked in my home. Email exchanges referencing your love for my husband and communications regarding my children. It's like I have been living my own custom designed hell. Psychologists say that for a person in my situation, the pain is worse than that of being raped or losing a child. I am only grateful that my children are too young to be aware of what is really going on.

I thought I had been doing everything right in my marriage. I work tirelessly to run our home, raise our two children and be a best friend and partner to my husband. Having three kids in four years is utterly exhausting (I have been either pregnant or breast feeding or both for 4 straight years now), but I have loved every minute of it, and so has WH. After months of questioning how and why this could happen, I have come to the conclusion that I was doing everything right, he just found an easy opportunity and took advantage of it.

I can imagine the lines he used and the lies he told you and himself during this affair. What I can't imagine is how you could come into my home and have sex with my husband underneath pictures of my innocent children. Surely only a prostitute is that morally corrupt. How do you justify risking my children's home, family and happiness? Thou shalt not commit adultery is one of the Ten Commandments, so for a woman who outwardly professes to be a Christian, I don't know how you reconcile your faith with your actions. You have met me, met my children, and still chose to do this for months and months on end. I don't know your sordid past, and I don't want to, but something about you is pretty f***** up to do this to me and to my family. You told me when I texted you that your relationship was over, so it was quite a shock last week to find our loft listed with you as the realtor. You have done everything to try to destroy my family, and now you think you deserve to profit financially from it? I can only assume that you lied to me regarding the status of your affair, just as you lied about when it began.

The only innocent party here is myself and my children. DH is living with the consequences of his actions and working valiantly to try to repair our very damaged marriage. I pray every day that God will convict you for your sins that and you will disappear never to be seen or heard from again. I, too, am fighting for my marriage, because just as I don't believe in adultery, I don't believe in divorce. Living through this hell has at least proven how much **EDIT** and I love each other and how much we want to be together. One day we will be old and have grand kids, and I will look back on you as merely a bump in the road that caused our marriage to grow stronger than ever.

Almnac, I think it would be better if you keep the letter to the OW short and sweet. She is probably not that literate and not going to read the whole thing, so you want to front load the important stuff up first and make it short:

* Stay away from my husband. Never see or talk to him again
* You are destroying a family with three children
* I am pregnant right now
* If you end up with my husband my children will never accept you, ever

If you haven't already mailed this, I would recommend a few changes.

It's sent and she has recieved it. I knew I should have posted here first to review, but I just needed to get it done and over with quickly. Parts of it are aimed at pushing her buttons particularly (despite the letter I have don't my homework and know quite a bit about her). She blocked me on FB, which is fantastic b/c it was the first that I was positive that she recieved it. She emailed and called WH and he told me about it. He was v. upset that I contacted her b/c it prompted her to contact him, but he has not done an NC letter yet, which I pointed out. It got heated for a bit, but ended ok.
Her cousin or sister responded to my exposure letter saying that I was mistaken. She was pretty nice and I offered to send her photos and other evidence. She never asked though and I haven't done so. She said that she spoke to OW and that she wants me to call her. I don't see any point in that. What can she possibly say except to give me more hurtful details? Thoughts?

When is he sending the NC?

Personally, I thought your letter was great! I wish I had written a letter such as yours to my WH's AP skank. It would have brought me closure.

I would advise, not reading or responding to any response from her if she tries. Her justifications and/or info sharing will just make you

~RQ

I don't know. It was item one of the 6 things that I asked him to do in order to enter a true recovery. Most of them are not difficult. Last night I left SAA open on his counter with the NC example highlighted. I want him to want to do this stuff, not for me to nag and force him. All these actions just make me think that he is still seeing her.

There's no point in calling her. You've said what you needed to say, and all she will do is argue with you and berate you.

Bravo Almnac!
I like your letter.

Now end all communication with her. No reason to let her get the last word in. Walk away with your dignity!

Your husband MUST commit to "no-contact" with OW immediatly.
Be prepared to defend this boundry! Put him out if you have to.

Thanks everyone for the feedback on OW. I agree, I'm done with communicating with her.

Today on WH's iPad I found photos of two pages of very cryptic notes, but one was her name and a login. Not in his handwriting. Started googling like mad and found addresses for homes she has listed, some flight numbers and some phone numbers. Super random. Tonight I confronted him about not having written his NC letter or agreed to any of my EP's. he said that he will work on it over the weekend. I told him that if he could not agree to them, then we needed to physically separate. Then I asked about these notes I found and he just went into hyper-liar mode. His eyes get very shifty and he said they were old photos b/c he just updated his computer, and then that maybe some of them were new b/c he needed to email a photo of some notes on a case and these had been in her office. So I told him that I flat out didn't believe him and that his words and actions did not line up and that I am terrified that he is not going to get his head on straight until it is too late. Then I emailed him all the addresses listed and the fact that they are recent listings, hence could not have been old notes from when she worked for him. In the email I said that I didn't want to talk about it b/c all he does is lie.

Sunday will be the deadline and he can either agree to my EP's or he will have to leave. I don't get it, he has everything he ever wanted, but he is so deep in the fog that he can't even see. I don't think he has any intention of leaving me, but I don't think he has ended his A either. My crappy GPS is worthless. I guess I will buy a different one as well as a VAR. I'm starting to feel like this is hopeless. He is going to ruin both of our lives.

I may have missed this answer ... is Sunday the day you're planning on going to Plan B?

It's so messed up and convoluted that it is hard to follow. Due to my nearing the end of this high risk pregnancy, Dr H recommended that we be "roommates". I have been terrible about that and we have had quite a bit of affection. I know that I have handled the whole thing poorly, but I am trying. So he recieved my modified Plan B letter almost a week ago, and we have been in roommate mode since then (separate rooms, no SF, etc). I just keep thinking that we are on our way to recovery and he just needs a little more time or help and he will get there, but then he behaves like a wayward. So yes, Sunday will be plan B. I was not supposed to do this while pregnant, but this baby could come tomorrow or not for 5 more weeks, and I just can't deal with this limbo for another 5 weeks! Plan A didn't work, exposure didn't work, Plan B is all I have left.

Exposing to my father?
I have not exposed to my father. If you have read my thread, you know that our relationship is complex. We are friends, and I admit that he is a fantastic grandfather, but his divorce from my mother and some subsequent poor behavior means that we are certainly not close. He is coming tonight for a short overnight visit to hang t with my children. Here's the deal- he is the one who first gave me HNHN and turned me on to Dr Harley (not that I utilized it until D Day!). When he gave us the book, he said that if he knew when he was married to my mom, what he learned in that book, that they never would have gotten divorced. He has been married twice since my mom and is currently married to a perfectly ok woman, but he is pretty honest, at least with me, about knowing that he ruined his own life with all his adultery. He and my WH used to be very close, and still are to some extent. I know that WH will not want to hear him, but maybe something he could say could cut through the fog given their long term relationship, my fathers mentor status and the fact that he has been there and lived to regret it. I really don't want to confide in my father. I don't want to cry in front of him, I don't want to be vulnerable- he has hurt me too much. But I am so desperate right now that I am running our of options.

WH and my fathers relationship predates ours. They worked together and were friends long before WH and I ever started dating.

Your father sound like one of THE best people to expose to. He may be the best person for your WH to listen listen to.

Father dearest strikes again! I filled him in on the situation and he has told me to "bear up", "choose my battles", ans "be patient". Doesn't want to talk to him this trip (so short, the kids and all), but when he sees him again in a couple of weeks he will. Awesome. Doesn't want me to Plan B until after the baby. I told him that it could be another 5 weeks and that I can't eat or sleep and physically cannot handle another month of this. He agreed and was his usual nice, suave self. Maybe their talk in two weeks will help (WH has to go down there for a case they have together). Can't hurt, but I am hurt b/c I guess I was hoping for some immediate help. I am just at the very very end of my rope right now. If it weren't for my precious kids and this pregnancy I would so be in Costa Rica right now.

I think you need to go to Plan B ASAP. It doesn't sound like you can take it much longer, let alone 5 weeks.

I think the main reason you were told to wait to go to Plan B was because of the risk to the baby, right? But you're past 34 weeks now, and the baby can be born safely any time, right?

If you have any doubts about Plan B now, you can always contact Dr. Harley again. He would probably love to talk to you again, and he probably needs to know that you are feeling at the end of your rope.

PBL
Dear WH,

I love you and despite all we have been through, I am still very much in love with you. I have had all my dreams come true with you as my partner these past seven years and we are about to have our third beautiful baby as evidence of that.

However, at this time my anger and bitterness are too great for me to handle. I cannot continue to live a normal life with you and pretend to be happy. I am so sad and so miserable right now and I truly need to get a grip. That is why we must separate.

Jenny has agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit.

If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jenny. If you a unable to reach her, you can contact my mom.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with her.

I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OW and are willing to follow the measures that I previously outlined to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

My hopes are to someday bring our family back together. The process of getting us to that point is up to you. If your hopes are the same as mine it will show in your actions and commitment to your own personal recovery and healing.

I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. With God's help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.

PBL addendum

Jenny
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Email

Vicki
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With respect to your visiting the children, please keep their regular sleep schedules in mind. I am happy for you to see them anytime you would like, but it would help if we could set up a regular schedule, or at least a schedule at the beginning of each week. I know DS will ask about when you will be "home" very often and I would like to be able to tell him when he can expect to see you. I am willing to leave the house so that you can spend time with the children here. Just let Jenny know when you plan on coming and if you need to change your plans.

Jenny or my mom will notify you as soon as the new baby is born and of course you will be welcome to visit as soon as we can arrange it.

I would leave that part out. He is not welcome in your home until he stop seeing OW and commits to a program of recovery.

Make sure he knows that he will not be allowed to just drop by the hospital and see you. He will be allowed to see the baby, but NOT you.

Thanks Prisca, I have made those changes. This is so heartbreaking and I can't believe that he is going to miss the birth of our child.
Before my darling father left this morning, he told me that for as long as he has known WH, he has always had two women and it has always been a problem. Gee, thanks dad. Makes me feel like a future is hopeless.

If adultery is a long-standing problem with WS, realistically it will whittle your odds down somewhat. The good news is there are still a percent of M's even that badly damaged, that still R. Your part in this will be to set the bar very high before attempting R, and to have as part of your boundaries that WH take a poly so you know the extent of this long-term betrayal.

Once you know that, you can decide what additional steps (such as possible help with a sexual addition) you may need to require.

You may also want to slightly modify your wording about the visitation. I think it would be ok for you to try allowing visitation as often as possible, but it should be spelled out that if that plan doesn't end up working for you (and since we're talking about a mind-scrambled alien, it has a high probability of failure), you will need to have a backup visitation plan. Whatever is standard for divorces in your area would make a good default if on-demand visitation ends up being one more excuse for wayward manipulation.

One part of Plan B is allowing both parties (especially the WS) to experience the hardships of divorce-ness without necessarily having to go all the way through the proceedings. That taste of "freedom", being free from all help, domestic support, team effort, plus any and all EN's the OP isn't meeting, is an important educational experience.

And even if you don't end up wanting to R, your life will be much easier if you aren't still dealing with a wayward, and having an alien parent your kids.

Fast forward 6 months! So, I made it near full term with baby #3 and had a healthy little girl. WH and I just kind of faked our way through for several months. I knew we were in a an FR, but didn't have the emotional bandwidth to prove it or deal with the fall out. When DD was 6 weeks old, I saw in WH's calendar that it was the girlfriend's bday, so I put a recording device in his car. Last minute, he took his truck! So I had to load up the kids, take his spare key, go to his office and put the device in his truck. He had a late evening with lots of great excuses. The next day I listened to the tape and heard him call her, tell her he was in the parking lot and about to come in and that he loved her. Some time later they both got in the truck and you can HEAR them kissing, then her saying she can't F him tonight, but she's doing him tomorrow night, and how did he get out of the house, blah, blah, vomit. So I calmly called him and explained that he was busted and that I needed him to come pack enough stuff to move out of the house in the next few hours while I was out. At that point he confessed to a prolonged and horrific childhood of sexual abuse that I had suspected, but not known the details of. So here we are 3 1/2 months and a lot of therapy later. He is a sex addict with all the classic causes and patterns. This does feel like a recovery, he voluntarily re wrote our prenup to include an infidelity clause, he (initially at least) has worked very hard in therapy, doing a lot of reading and listening to books on my tape. The therapist is very into twelve step, but he has been resistant to the sex addict meetings. Even though this feels genuine, I still have so little faith that he will continue to be faithful. He says all the right things, but he said those during our FR, so they mean nothing. Worse than nothing, they trigger all the bad stuff. I feel like I am never going to get over this, never trust him, never be really happy again. If I didn't have kids, I would be in Australia right now. But I do, and I love my family and my life, and I am here. I don't feel like I have any option but to stay the course, but I'm just exhausted by waiting for the other shoe to drop, and I don't see any end in sight of those feelings. Help?

Did he write a NC letter to OW?

Has he changed all contact information?

Is OW married?

He did write his letter.

His contact info is all the same, but he got rid of his affair phone.

She is not married. I exposed to her whole family.