I just ordered the book SAA and have been reading every link on this site for a few days. Here's our story:

After 8 awesome years of marriage, we decided we were finally ready for children. I conceived in January and were over the moon! Plans, dreams, and even a bit of painting ensued. Short-lived, as we miscarried soon thereafter. The night of the miscarriage was traumatic indeed without going into details. Immediately, my private husband said we were not talk about it with his family or friends. It was too painful for him. He did say I should receive whatever support I needed. So I spoke with friends who had gone through it before and even joined a miscarriage forum online that helped me tremendously.

He's always been fit but after this happened, he really started working out towards the goal of hiking the grand canyon all the way to the bottom. This is important because he began running 2 hours a day and that took a lot of time away from us. Also, I was on the internet more often reading on conceiving again, etc. (I now recognize this as a Love Buster � Independence).

We began getting closer to this couple from church that prior to the M/C, had already made plans for a concert (February) and to go to Yosemite (March). I always told hubby that I didn't like hanging out with them that often because, honestly, they were boring to me and couldn't hold much conversation. He said he wanted to help and befriend them, as they were newly weds (1 1/2 years) and new to our church. We moved churches but still kept in touch.

Did I mention WH has been a minister for 4 years? I have always had full trust in him and he has always been extremely careful with members of the opposite sex. Apparently, she reached out to him when she started having serious marriage problems.

For the first time in our marriage, he accepted having coffee alone with someone. They began communicating by phone/text daily apparently. (All this revealed D-Day). He said his intentions were to help her, but that she did what no one else had done, which was reach out to him to see how HE was doing. That she really insisted to know more about his state of mind. He told her of the M/C and another problem he was having with his brother and just vented about all his responsibilities he had. I now recognize this as filling his emotional needs. He says they met only 3 times for coffee during the day for 1 hour (her lunch break) and that she confessed she was developing feelings for him. He said he hadn't thought about her like that til she said it. So then they met a park at night (when he told me he had a meeting). He said at the end of that �talking session� they hugged for a long time, held hands and then kissed. He said there was only one kiss and that it was an average kiss, nothing too long nor short (whatever that means). He told her afterward that they had to end this. She begged for them to run off together. He said it wouldn't work out.

When he began his confession on D-Day he was absolutely a wreck. I had never seen him suffer so badly as he told me what had happened in the last 3 weeks. He said he had lost faith in God since the miscarriage, that he could never make me happy since we didn't have our love for God as our common link anymore, that he was a horrible person. That he was extremely confused as to his purpose on this earth. He said he wanted nothing to do with this girl anymore. I immediately said, �you sound depressed�. I was not angry, I was in shock! The only thing I had noticed was that he was always extremely tired in the past week and he got horribly sick a few days prior and could hardly sleep. I had not noticed the depression, but hindsight is 20/20 when I recall certain conversations about his self-worth, etc.

That night, he went to sleep at his brother's house and talked with him all night. The OM called me and confirmed the story exactly to the tee except with the fact that he said my H came on to her first, not the other way around. He has since reconciled with his wife and she sent me an apology email stating she had changed all contact info, was being monitored, and felt ashamed, stupid and na�ve for what happened. That it was a nightmare. That she loved her husband and they were receiving help.

Anyway, the next day he came home and could not stop crying and crying and repeating himself and sounding absolutely hopeless. He spoke with our ministers and renounced all responsibilities. That night in bed he said he wanted to die. He started saying good bye to me and leaving messages for his family. I told him I was probably pregnant, to hang on. He said I would be fine without him. That's when I called his closest friends over (very mature ministers of his same age). It was like an intervention. They convinced him to go to the ER. He was hospitalized in the psych unit for 3 days since he stated that he had planned to take a bottle of pills that night after I fell asleep.

WH is currently on anti-depressants and sees a therapist and psychiatrist. It has helped him tremendously. He himself told his family and friends what he did. The church doesn't know though, they just see he no longer has responsibilities.

At this time, I can see he is in Withdrawal. Everyone tells me I'm doing an amazing job at helping him through his depression and supporting him even though he cheated on me. I am obsessed with thinking about them. Everything is a trigger to both him and I. He sometimes is still in a fog. I am always with him and he cannot be alone still at this time. Last night he said he was at a 3 out of 10. I printed the Emotional Needs Questionnaire for him only to fill since Dr. Harvey says a depressed person cannot fill my needs til he is better.

What else can I do? We are spending the 15-20 hours of UA together. The questionnaire made him feel horrible as he says he should be making ME feel better. He says he doesn't understand why everyone still loves him and shows him kindness...

RO,

If what your WH said is true, then he won't object to a polygraph, so you can feel certain that there is nothing more and move on. You don't need another confession 10 years from now.

God Bless
Gamma

I sure don't. Thanks Gamma!

Sorry to hear about the M/C. Your WH is likely devastated by it as much as you.

I hate to say it but his reaction to his A is good. He is going through withdrawal. He hasn't really lost his faith in God. It's his guilt getting the better of him. He needs to continue to work with fellow ministers to get through this. I think the OW's reaction was good, but you need to get him as far away from her as possible, and fast. Stay by his side and you will get through this. He needs you more than ever now. It sucks being the BS, we have to be the caretakers while the WS goes through this. It will come full circle in the end.

Hi ResilientOne, welcome to Marriage Builders. It sounds like you have the right idea about what to do to recover from this affair. The most important first step is to end all contact with the OW and it sounds like that has happened. Is there any chance they will run into each other again?

The book, Surviving an Affair will give you a plan to recover your marriage. In the meantime, please check out the first thread in this forum. You will find a lot of useful information there.

Sorry you've had cause to find your way here, ResilientOne.

What has he done for his part to ensure no contact & transparency? Has he changed all of his own email addresses & cellphone numbers? Has he given you passwords to all his accounts? And irrespective of what he has done in this regard, what steps are you taking to monitor him & verify that they're not in touch?

Sorry for the delay!

Mijunleigh, you have relieved me, thank you! I don't know what's good and normal from him anymore. As for continued support, just last night we had a couple over, and WH asked him (a young minister) for help, and they made plans for tomorrow for Bible study. I'm so happy that came from him!

Melody, I asked him that and he said he doesn't know where she works, and with all her contact info changed, he could not get in touch with her unless he showed up to their front door. I think they still live on the other side of our same city, so we never know. His (OM) mom lives a few blocks over but they're not close.

GloveOil, that's the concerning part to me. He hasn't changed anything. I've always had the passwords. I check his two email addresses every few days and his phone. I'm afraid to access the phone bills only because I don't want to see how much they talked before. He said if she contacts him in any way he will not respond and let me know asap.

Confession time for me: I'm afraid to know if it was worse than what I think.

Can someone tell me how someone thinks they can fall in love with someone else in 3 darned weeks?! I mean, I read what Dr. Harley said about filling the EN and how it's really an addiction, but someone please help me understand.

But you can't count on that. And telling you misses the point entirely. If an recovering alcoholic tells you every time he slips and has a drink, does it mean he is any less drunk? No, he is not. And every time the OW contacts him, he will be triggered and it will be much more likely he will resume his affair.

He also told you he would be faithful in his wedding vows. So the best course of action is to remove any avenues of contact.

You will need to find out what environment led to the affair and remove it.

Why hasn't he changed all his contact information?

What conditions allowed his affair? How did they facilitate it? Internet? E-mail? Phone?

Then all conditions that allowed his affair must be changed.

ResilientOne, you don't make it all better, to fall back in love, in 3 weeks. You can't. At risk of seeming cliche, I'll tell you that it's a marathon, not a sprint.

I'll also tell you that he needs to take actions to become transparent & to help reassure you.

I'll also tell you that trying to bury your uncertainties and not know what you don't want to know is not the way to recovery. If you read the book "Surviving An Affair" (the book that may well have saved my marriage), you'll see how important radical honesty is -- including honesty retrospectively, from the affairee.

I was also in the conversation where the woman begged me to run away with her. Yes, I'm sorry to say that I was a man who had an affair. If it helps any to make you feel like you & your husband aren't necessarily the biggest freaks on the planet, I'll also tell you that she was a married woman who was one of the fellow singers on the church's music team.

My gut feeling is that there's more to his story, and that a married woman wouldn't likely beg another woman's husband to run off, unless just about all the lines had already been crossed; but I can't know that in your husband's case, so I won't burden you with further speculation.

You need him to step up to the plate and translate his guilt into action -- translating his words into works that show the words aren't meaningless & dead, if you will (with my apologies to James for the paraphrasing). He needs to change his contact info -- all of it. You need to establish that as one of your baseline requirements -- it is not a selfish demand on your part to declare what you need to feel minimally safe. He needs to be making every effort -- extraordinary efforts -- to guard against any resumption of contact with her. (Read about "extraordinary precautions" on this site and in the book "Surviving An Affair.")

And you need to know the whole truth of what happened, bad as it may turn out to be. Because if you don't, then the "it" that you don't know, will always remain as a specter of doubt in your mind, and you may even imagine it to have been worse than it already was. Get the phone records! In my case, when my wife dug up the phone records (without my knowledge), it actually helped my wife to trust me again, because at a time when I had no credibility to speak of, the records corroborated what I had told her about the timeline of the affair.

Finally, I'll tell you that it is possible to save your marriage & even for it to be better than it has been before. At 3 weeks out, I know, that seems impossible to you, and to your husband. You won't ever be able to rebuild what you had in the same the way it was pre-affair. And you must aim higher than that anyway, because your pre-affair marriage wasn't good enough! And it won't be easy. It'll take both of you being all-in. And it'll take him knocking off the self-pity party, for him to quit being a wuss & pay more than lip-service to your pain, more attention than he's paying to his own self-inflicted pain, so that he devotes his energy to repairing & bettering your marriage -- so that he translates his guilt into a motivating remorse that drives him to be better.

If you've got questions, ask.

I don't know why we haven't gotten to it. Once he was placed in the hospital, he surrendered his phone to me. Every message was deleted. There were no emails between them except for one from him on D-day and then a reply from her (all saying good-bye).

The conditions that permitted it were technically that all four of us were always together at each other's houses and going out. Later, when their secret friendship started, I would be at work, he gets out early on Wednesdays, he would meet her on her lunch break, they would talk. Things didn't escalate to physical til the night of the kiss at the park.

GloveOil, you are totally right, and I'm thankful you shared your circumstances so we wouldn't feel like freaks, lol.

I'm going to talk to him about going to the phone store to change his number and to print out the history. Maybe it will help to see the timeline, as you said. And also to place extraordinary measures, as you reminded me.

It's hard with a depressed person because I'm not sure when to expect more from him. He looks like he can barely help himself! He is able to think more clearly and concentrate more now with the meds. He's gone back to work and to church. He's praying with me again. So, maybe I should tell him I want more "compensation", but how to word that?

Oh, and the 3 week comment was about him and the OW. Not about us. That's what threw me off about all this. We are both completely in love with each other. I think we trusted too much that our marriage was strong, and we disconnected while we grieved, and this stupid opportunity presented itself while he was weak. (Thanks to Satan on that one too). How did he fall in love with HER in 3 weeks?

Very true. Thank you.

When people let their boundaries go & start allowing members of the opposite sex to meet intimate emotional needs, then it can happen breathtakingly quickly. In my case, it was nothing I was looking for, at the outset. We were only talking about music, for goodness sakes. I'd always been a boy-scout, upstanding family-man, good dad, the last person you'd ever have thought would have an affair.

But we began spending time alone together, to rehearse songs that we were singing. Big mistake! And the conversations evolved. And when she started letting on that things weren't all rosy in her marriage, I should've shut it the hell down then & there; but I didn't, b/c it was an ego boost to have someone view me as somone to confide in. It filled my EN for admiration & attention. Not to mention intimate conversation & (with the music rehearsals) recreational companionship. All the ingredients for marital disaster. And it took about 5 weeks until the EA became physical. And this was with a woman whom I'd known for only 2 years previously, and barely at that, and whom I'd never even thought anything untoward about, and who I'd actually found kind of annoying, until she first asked me to sing a duet with her & started throwing a few compliments my way.

And yeah, at the time, I even felt that I'd fallen in love with her. That's how f'd up people can get when they're in the throes of an emotional affair. And it's that feeling "in love" part that people who you never thought would cheat -- people who themselves never thought they'd ever cheat -- use to justify it all to themselves.

The first time a person in a position of any perceived authority in a church is approached by a member of the opposite sex who lets on that her marriage is having issues, then his first & only response should be to one-touch that person to a reputable, professional counselor, and then step out of it. Any response that involves continuing 1-on-1 conversations between the two of them is courting disaster. No one who doesn't "get" this ought to be serving in ministry in any capacity, imho.

Postscript to the last thought on my previous post -- meant to add, the person should ideally, one-touch the situation to a reputable, professional counselor who understands MarriageBuilders concepts. And then step out of it.

Wow, you sound exactly my husband! He is someone you would NEVER think would do this, plus, he himself says he can't believe he did it. He says he didn't plan it either. He says it felt good to be helping her, etc. And wow, your situation happened quickly too, but I see how it filled your needs at the time.

She had serious marriage problems, apparently the OM had hit her a few weeks prior. I was not aware of any of this! The OM admitted it to me over the phone but said she hit him first, and was trying to get to his face, when he shoved her off him, never striking her. Unacceptable, but there you go.

Question, so should I fill my emotional needs questionnaire? He hasn't filled his. I gave it to him night before last.

The biggest issue is to have him change ALL contact information and give you his list of EPs.

Will he do that?

What's EP again? Can't find the acronym list.

Extraordinary Precautions

Extraordinary precaution

Here you go. Extraordinary Precautions

Also here.
Acronyms and Abbreviations

And the Nationals' lineup isn't hitting worth a darn this season, but that also has nothing to do with your husband's sloppy boundaries.

I don't see any harm in giving him your filled-out ENQ, but I think your first step is to get him reading Surviving An Affair ("SAA"). Someone who isn't onboard with trying to take a good, hard look at himself & why he did something he thought he'd never do, might not be in the right frame of mind to want to jump right into some questionnaire about feelings & emotional needs.

I'm no psychologist, but sounds to me like you might want to make sure not to let his depression be an excuse to treat him with kid gloves when it comes to your need for honesty & your need for him to take the lead in actions to help you feel emotionally safe again with him. Has he done a no-contact letter according to the template in SAA? He needs to do that. And he needs to change his cell # and e-mail addy. These steps are not impositions for him, and he shouldn't view them as such -- they are actually positive actions that he can take to help begin the long process of helping you heal, and he should be grateful for the suggestions. Go though SAA chapter-by-chapter and read it, make notes & questions, and then discuss your reactions to each chapter, calmly & dispassionately. (I know, easier said than done, but if you decide you want to give this marriage its best shot, then you both oughtta try it together.)

I don't mean to minimize the correct steps you've already taken, including exposing the affair and your cross-referencing his account of things with the other woman's husband, and spending one-on-one time together; those are all for the good! But there's lots more for him to do.

Thanks everyone for the link and info.

GloveOil, I just ordered the book on my kindle. Couldn't wait for delivery. We shall start it tonight and I will request those changes from him. I'll keep you all updated tomorrow!

Let us know what his EPs are.

Welp, its 3 am. Can't sleep after how horribly everything went. Today it seemed it was WH's best day of recovery (from depression). He was also super loving and attentive all weekend. I had been debating all day if I should approach the subject and possibly ruin what a wonderful day it had been.

So tonight, after going to bed at 11pm, I brought it up. I told him I was feeling very anxious and insecure about any possibilities of further contact from OW. I asked if he could take further precautions to reassure me more (wanted to give him a chance to come up with some). He said his phone was always there on the tv stand as soon as he got home til he slept and that he calls/texts/ and emails all day to stay in touch. He said I shouldn't worry, as OW changed her contact info. I said to him, so why haven't you? He's had the same number for 9 years and has never wanted to change it, which he repeated to me.

He gave me a long talk about how sorry he was he hurt me and how he hates himself for it. He said he wants nothing to do with OW or her husband (who was his close friend). He said that with the baby on the way, there was no way he would risk losing us as a family, nor bringing more heartache to those around us. I told him I appreciate that but could he still change his info. He said calmly that I have to learn to trust him. (Had to hold my tongue on that one).

I started asking about the EA again and at first he was totally willing to talk, until he began to let things slip. He had a second job that he quit shortly after the miscarriage in January. When I asked about his usual schedule in contacting her, he said he would always text her before going into his second job. I said, wait, you said the EA began the first week of March. When did it actually begin? He said he couldn't remember when it went from minister contact, to friendship contact, to relationship contact. Okay.....

He said, why are you asking all this now?! I thought we were past this. The therapist said not to go into more details and work on the present and the future remember? I told him that was a mistake because my imagination that fills in gaps is worse than him just telling my everything. I was not healing.

He said I had my chance and he didn't want to keep talking about it. That it made him feel like our marriage would never get better because I would never forgive him nor trust him. He said that thats why he had told me on D-day that he shouldn't stay with me. Not because he didn't love me, but because he had seen so many couples go through this and not have it work out due to lack of trust and forgiveness.

I told him he truly could not expect me to trust him so soon. He agreed. He said, yes, but next thing you know, you're gonna want to know how I kissed her! I said, actually that was my next question - how far did you guys really go? He screamed, oh my god, I can't do this right now. It's 12:30am, I'm on my sleeping pill. You can't talk to me at this time! This is the kind of stuff that takes away my hope in us. I'm leaving to the couch! And he left to the couch.

So, I'm definitely getting the phone bills tomorrow as I am highly suspicious. I need to figure out how to put a key logger on his work computer (works at an elementary school), as I think he may have another way to communicate during the week.

Even if he isn't, the excuse about the depression and this EA being triggered by the miscarriage is flying out the window. I looked more closely at the bank statements for January and he had coffee with her 9 days after. I think things were going on a long time before this for him to get the guts to go all the way to her work. I need the phone bills. Its Metropcs and keep getting error messages. Gotta wait til I go to the store at 9!

I'm afraid he's going to want to separate. At the same time, if it was a PA, I would want to. Especially after finding out it was way longer than the 3 weeks he quoted me. I need to teach him a lesson about dishonesty!

Okay, just put a tracker/voice recorder/picture taker on his phone.

Anybody have any words for me? I just sent him an email to work clarifying again my intentions for the requests and questions.

YIKES !!!!

What a lot of gas-lighting you are being exposed to !!!

Sit him down. Rested. Fed. In a good mood. Bring him a coffee.
You: "Honey, I want to get everything out so we can heal. This letter expresses my dilema. Please read this. I'll sit here and wait. Then, we can discuss"

Print out Joseph's letter.

Tell us how your WH responds to Joseph's letter.

Thank you Pepperband, will do!

Your D-day ....

When is your expected due date?

12/17/13. So yeah, we conceived days after D-day. I thought I had ovulated a week prior though.

So, WH just called during lunch and he sounded more calm. Made sure I had eaten and everything. He said we will change his number and email address. I asked if everything was going to be ok between us, he said yes.

I will show him letter later!

Make the letter a positive step. Not a "got-ya" moment.

You'd better get the back-statements for your bank & credit-cards, too, Resilient One. Like I said before, I don't think very many married women get around to asking married men to run away together with them, unless they've both got something they've done that they might really wanna run from.

And if your husband gets in the flow in response to Joseph's letter (which I do hope he will), then keep the vibes positive, but let him know that a polygraph on his part might do you a world of good toward putting your mind at ease.

I am browsing WH depression posts and noticed your due date was yesterday. I hope you are doing well, ResilientOne.

I have looked at the spyware for her samsung phone and iPad but have not done that yet. I am trying to follow plan A except for the discussions we have about it. I believe the plan A is fill her love bank and snoop. I will read it again. Thank you

This moved to a new thread, sorry for the error