Found out 3 weeks ago about the affair. Been going for 4 yrs, right under our noses. Married in 2002, she began affair in 2009, so she's been sleeping with 'friend' for 4 out of 11 years.
Since I busted her (one week after I had proof), she has insisted she wants a divorce and get into mediation straight away. But we have 9-yr girl and 7-yr boy, and we're stuck with the house for the whole school year (through May 2014 - don't ask.
We met with a counselor last week for the purpose of getting an opinion on what to say to the children. But I jumped into the Plan B letter and requested she leave the house until she stops seing him.
.Counselor said "Better know what you're going to do (separation, divorce, living arrangements, decide on visitation, etc) before telling them. Counselor and my own individual counselor says, "Hard to find a good benefit to telling the kids "Mommy is committing adultery" or "Mommy doesn't love Daddy anymore".
Friday morn, she told me, "I'm not moving out - I'm just oging to take the upstairs bedroom. And you have no legal right to get me out." I said, "then you can't see him any more." And she just laughs "You can't make me".
So tomorrow afternoon, we see this counselor again. I'm going to hope the counselor (who was very tough last week on the cheating spouse) may help me persuade her to move out, just so she can be with him. My point is that her actions of 4 years and running are due some consequences. She is defiantly going to see him, and I'm buying the milk (providing the home and care for our children), yet someone else is getting to drink that milk. I'm basically going to tell her that if she doesn't comply and move out) then I will let her tell the kids that she is divorcing me and that the reason is because she's sleeping with the OM
She is adamant about seeing the OM (addicted.) and getting a divorce. Plan A was never an option. Plan B awwma rhw only way.
I need help to figure out if its okay to tell the kids, "Mommy decided to forget about Daddy and find someone else."
I really really really want to tell the kids all truth, but other advice says, "you probably shouldn't if you want them protected as much as possible."
If I go ahead and tell the kids by myself with Grandpa present, I know my wife will be pissed, but we will tell the truth and not let the kids think that in any way they caused it or that we don't love them. Rather, we would affirm all that, and just keep the truth simple. They know their commandments and know what adultery is. I'm thinking about simply threatening that when trying to get her out of the house. But the other threat (mentioned before) was that SHE has to tell the kids why she's going to sleep upstairs and why daddy says it's too painful to talk to or look at her.
Been three weeks now - OM told his wife of 26 years he's done and wants a divorce (he has cheated on her before 2 times in the last 4 years and I don't think my wife knew about it). He's 52 and my wife is a young-looking healthy 40. They have been exposed to all family and close friends. Nobody (except for a couple of OM's guy friends who have cheated and divorced themselves) condones or supports what they are doing. Just our two little ones don't know. But the problem is that my wife wants to just tell the kids "We don't get along and can't fix it. That's why mommy sleeps upstairs now and why we're not spending any time together"
Monday at the counselor, I aim to approach it like "you may have a legal right to stay in the home, but you gave up your moral right to stay here with every day that went by for 4 years that you made the choice to continue seeing this guy and not go to a counselor to say "What have I done? How do I tell my husband?" The only reason we are where we are is because I got extra suspicious and busted them. I only got extra suspicious because two weeks prior I asked where she had been and she decided to unleash a fury of "you were never there for me - we can't work out - your fault - I'm done - no marital counseling - no we can't have any sex any more because I'm not ready" trying to make me feel like dirt and give her even more space.
Hi Ar2kids, welcome to Marriage Builders. It is not a good idea to lie to your kids. Kids are not made happy or secure by lies and illusions. Dr Harley would advise you sit them down ALONE and tell them all about their mothers affair.
Additionally, the affair should be exposed BY YOU to all your family and friends, the OM's family and friends and the workplace if this is a workplace affair. Please read the thread linked in my signature. I would suggest you PERSONALLY contact the OM's wife and all his family. SEnd out exposure letters to his facebook friends.
Dr. Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, on telling the children:
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The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home. ___________________________________ A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.
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The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
They know their commandments and know what adultery is. I'm thinking about simply threatening that when trying to get her out of the house. But the other threat (mentioned before) was that SHE has to tell the kids why she's going to sleep upstairs and why daddy says it's too painful to talk to or look at her.
Don't make threats, just tell your kids ALONE and get this done now. Hire an attorney, file on grounds of adultery if you can and get her out.
When you say you want to go into Plan B, what do you mean? WHY do you want to go into Plan B? Because you have decided to end the marriage?
I would echo MelodyLane and others in suggesting you expose to the kids. I also have a 9 and 7 year old, and told them about WW's affair almost a month ago. They understood and were obviously upset, though as others have said it is the affair that is to blame. My 9 year old spoke with my WW later that day and that was one of the things that ultimately led to WW agreeing to end the affair. Your results may vary of course. My 9 and 7 year old are doing fine now.
It is not to tell WW that she can't come back until she dumps OM.
Plan B is when YOU will not be part of the drama of your WW having a relationship with another person. It is when YOU decide that you are willing to be done with the marriage but will be open to recovering the marriage if the affair ever does end.
Plan B is more about you getting to the juncture where you no longer actively (Plan A) are trying to lure your wayward wife back towards you.
Plan A is being firm but kind. No love busting (read the concepts on the link at the top of the page).
Hmmm...I'm pretty sure I am at plan B, though I may not have articulated it well.
I am willing to be done with the marriage (and a lot of me tells me that 4 years of this charade is just too much to forgive, although I know that God works miracles).
I'm just trying to get WW to end affair with OM ASAP so she will start thinking straight - if not for the marriage, but at least so she's thinking right when it comes to the children. The affair is an addiction, and she is sick and not thinking straight, because she has compartmentalized it for so long. Now WW wants to keep status quo and see OM, but with only two minor changes: 1) WW sleeps upstairs and no longer fakes like she loves me, and 2) tell the kids some lame crap why we're sleeping separate and that we will eventually get divorced.
I will not tolerate her to live under the roof that I've provided for the last 7 years and still continue the relationship with OM. However, there are no courts in CA that will enforce that. CA is a no-fault-divorce state and the courts will just chop everything in half. The only way legally to get her out of the house is to have a court order that we sell it - and then we're both out (as are the kids).
So I either stand my ground in the house and try to guilt/cajole/persuade her out (with the help of the counselor, perhaps). Or I move out - but isn't moving out telling the kids that I've given up on them? (I suppose not if I tell them the true and real reason why.)
There is this attempt to "keep things stable for the kids", but nothing will remain stable as long as she's cheating.
Last thing is that I've already promised that I would not tell the children anything unless WW and I are both with them together. And WW made the same promise.
Any suggestions as to what to tell the children - on my own or with my supportive father-in-law (I think if he is there, it adds to their trust).
I have 3 young kids and I told that I all of my children that their mother is having an affair this is what Harley Dr recommends and I strongly encourage you to sit down with your children and say mommy is having an affair with John Doe I love mommy I would like to work on our marriage but mommy wants is having an affair and it's breaking up our family.
I also have to I I was unable to throw my wife out of the house she stayed with us during her affair for about 6 months during that time I was in plan a and it was very difficult but I remain can plan a and immediately following divorce I initiated no contact with her because she chose to leave the house if that aided me and gaining custody of our children so above all do not leave your house and I would encourage you to go in to plan a if you cannot get her out of the house.
regarding plan B Dr Harley states the purpose of plan B is to stop meeting the emotional needs of the wayward spouse so that in doing so you are forcing her to fair partner to then meet all of your needs right now he may be meeting one or two needs while your meeting other needs and this would force him to meet all of her needs and plan B is you don't speak to the person ; you don't talk to them; you have no direct communication with them whatsoever.
I encourage you to obtain Dr hardly spoke surviving an affair it is available on Amazon local bookstores and it can give you a very a good information about how to proceed with plan a or plan be a doctor Harley would encourage you to be in either plan a or plan be and if you're living with her he would probably encourage you to plan a
Last thing is that I've already promised that I would not tell the children anything unless WW and I are both with them together. And WW made the same promise.
Any suggestions as to what to tell the children - on my own or with my supportive father-in-law (I think if he is there, it adds to their trust).
The first thing you should do is BREAK that promise. [without telling her in advance] Your wife being there will muddy the waters and just cause more confusion. The only thing worse than making a bad promise is KEEPING a bad promise. Don't add more drama to the situation by bringing her into the equation. Just tell the kids and get this over with.
You need to tell them ALONE [perhaps FIL can be there if he won't interfere] without forewarning your wife. Sit them down and explain that your wife is committing adultery with Joe Blow [give them the full name]. Tell them why adultery is immoral and how much it hurts you. Tell them you will do everything in your power to end her affair and save the marriage.
What you should do is execute a strategic, nuclear exposure TODAY and TOMORROW. Use the techniques outlined on my exposure thread.
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All of OM kids, family, friends now know, and so do most of our friends, all family except kids.
Who told whom WHAT? If you didn't tell these people yourself then it is not exposed. Have you spoken to the OM's wife and parents? Is this a workplace affair?
Your first steps should be to expose this affair wide and far and then DEMAND that she end it immediately. Go pay a visit to this RAT and tell him there is no future for him wiht your wife becasue he will be eternally hated by the inlaws and your children.
And also, you don't move out. You strive to kill the affair.
Also, Plan B can't be done while living the same house anyway. So just place all your focus on killing the affair and doing an excellent Plan A. No fighting, no lovebusting!!
So you're saying that if I can't get her out, and she's still in the affair, to still use Plan A for 8 months? (That's when we will likely be putting the house up for sale. We are in a home-school group and we use the house for classes. Committed to about 25 families for the school year through May. If I broke it off now, those families would also be hurt because of the affair. maybe that is leverage??)
I plan on telling the kids alone tomorrow. I will BREAK the bad promise. The OM and his wife have been our pinochle-playing partners for the last 4 years. We have vacationed together (both with and without our young children) They are empty-nesters and their children are 21 and 24. So both the wife of the OM and I confronted our cheater spouses at the same time, and both the cheaters said they wanted divorces. Sad thing is that the other wife (OS?? I'm new with these letters!) is a wonderful lady, and our young children have grown to love and trust the OS and OM. Obviously I trusted OM. But I didn't know any of this. The OS and I both have "Surviving An Affair" and we wish we had it 4-5 years ago. OM had cheated on her 2 times before and ended them (only because he had my wife still in-hand). OM has moved out and living in some colleague's guest house. I want WW to go live with him so I don't have to be a part of it.
Every WS is furious when the children are told the truth. My WxH wanted me to tell our then 9 year old son that we 'just didn't get along.' I told him the truth ALONE and it was the best thing I ever did regarding the affair/divorce.
Listen to Melody Lane and BREAK that promise you made to your WW and the counselor. Do not threaten to do it based upon any of her actions/non actions ---just DO it!.
And I absolutely would not make decisions about my life based upon commitments made to a homeschool group.
So you're saying that if I can't get her out, and she's still in the affair, to still use Plan A for 8 months? (That's when we will likely be putting the house up for sale. We are in a home-school group and we use the house for classes. Committed to about 25 families for the school year through May. If I broke it off now, those families would also be hurt because of the affair. maybe that is leverage??)
Our family homeschools. If we were doing it at your house we'd want to know sooner, rather than later. If your wife is doing any of the teaching, I would definitely want to know - I'd like the option to pull my kids away from her influence. Also, odds are that the next 8 months are going to be very traumatic in that house. The homeschool group is going to suffer whether you tell them or not. So tell them now so they can make other arrangements now at the beginning, when it's more convenient for them.
Ar2kids, who home schools these kids? Is it your wife?
And have you completely shut the OM out of your life and your home? That rat should never set foot in your home again.
It is extremely important that you do a very thorough, comprehensive exposure if you want to kill this affair. Please go read through my exposure thread and make plans. I would expose this to the other homeschool parents, the OMs children, parents and family members.
I am willing to be done with the marriage (and a lot of me tells me that 4 years of this charade is just too much to forgive, although I know that God works miracles).
I know it's hard to believe, but it IS possible for you to turn this around and end up with a wonderful marriage. Since you have young children, I would encourage you to consider saving the marriage for their sake. It will be better for them, and it will be better for you financially in the long run.
Regardless of whether you want to keep the marriage, you do need to do a full exposure. This is how you kill the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy and are fragile -- they cannot stand up to the pressure of public knowledge.
You are right that your wife is addicted. Remove her from her drug (OM), and she will eventually start to think more clearly.
You have a very good chance of saving this marriage through exposure and Plan A. Expose, then consider your options.
Will you please answer the questions that MelodyLane posed to you? Is your WW teaching in this homeschool environment? Do you belong to a church, and does your pastor know? Does the OM have a facebook page?
All of the above are excellent exposure targets and exposure to them would tremendously help in breaking through the fog and bringing the reality of the situation out into the light. Affairs thrive in darkness, the more light you can shine the better -- You want to create as much chaos in this affair as possible.
at this point you should also consider getting a voice recorder and secretly keep it on you at all times unfortunately many cheating spouses will falsely accuse their husbands of abusing them and getting kicked out of the home do not want this to happen and under no circumstances should you leave the home
So you're saying that if I can't get her out, and she's still in the affair, to still use Plan A for 8 months? (That's when we will likely be putting the house up for sale. We are in a home-school group and we use the house for classes. Committed to about 25 families for the school year through May. If I broke it off now, those families would also be hurt because of the affair. maybe that is leverage??)
Our family homeschools. If we were doing it at your house we'd want to know sooner, rather than later. If your wife is doing any of the teaching, I would definitely want to know - I'd like the option to pull my kids away from her influence. Also, odds are that the next 8 months are going to be very traumatic in that house. The homeschool group is going to suffer whether you tell them or not. So tell them now so they can make other arrangements now at the beginning, when it's more convenient for them.
Excellent point. I homeschool and I absolutely would not want my son taught by an active WW. Exposing to the homeschool parents would be very effective in busting up her fantasy world.
Yes, she is the nutrition teacher and Physical Fitness teacher. Our house, along with 2 other homes, serve as the host houses where the classes are held 2 times per week. Different teachers come in and teach in the Garage or Kitchen or Living Room. There are 80 children in the program from 1st through 12th grade. WW and neighbor mom are the organizers/brains of the program. Neighbor mom gave me the book "Surviving An Affair". She's on "the family's side". Doesn't want to abandon WW. Is very fearful of the program coming to a halt.
I agree - this is MY LIFE and MY FAMILY. The home school program can survive.
My pastor knows and wants to talk to WW, but waiting for her to be ready. (WELS Lutheran - I'm a lifelong Lutheran, WW has followed where I led - she's not too much into the differences). I have been meeting with my pastor for the past 4 weeks about 2x / week. Also meeting with a christian counselor 1x-2x per week - about 7 sessions with him all told. WW met with a christian counselor once. We've both met with a counselor (JUST to talk about what to say to kids, mind you, not about our trainwreck marriage) 1x and will meet again this afternoon.
The OM and WW have taken down their Facebook acocunts. OM's 24 yr old daughter won't talk to him. We figure he has been pretty much exposed, but there are still people that do not know. OM was a pretty popular guy - everyone thought he was the king of the party and the great family man.
So we've (we = Other betrayed spouse & me) done a lot of exposure. OM is on the outs with his family and been kicked out. OBS has even called and consulted with Janice Chalmers on the phone. So OBS is waiting for the affair to die.
However, OM & WW are both in such a hurry for us to begin the process of dissolution of marriage. "Let's go find a mediator this week!!" seems to be their mantra.
WW definitely wants the best of both worlds - she wants to 1) stay in room upstairs; 2) get divorce ASAP; 3) arrange visitation so we don't occupy house at same time; 4)follow through on commitment to neighbor friend/colleague to finish the homeshcool deal this year; 5)be the "best mommy she can be" and keep things stable for children; and 6) go sleep with OM whenever it is convenient
So we've (we = Other betrayed spouse & me) done a lot of exposure. OM is on the outs with his family and been kicked out. OBS has even called and consulted with Janice Chalmers on the phone. So OBS is waiting for the affair to die.
However, OM & WW are both in such a hurry for us to begin the process of dissolution of marriage. "Let's go find a mediator this week!!" seems to be their mantra.
WW definitely wants the best of both worlds - she wants to 1) stay in room upstairs; 2) get divorce ASAP; 3) arrange visitation so we don't occupy house at same time; 4)follow through on commitment to neighbor friend/colleague to finish the homeshcool deal this year; 5)be the "best mommy she can be" and keep things stable for children; and 6) go sleep with OM whenever it is convenient
You need to get it through her fog brain that none of the above is going to happen.
Yes, she is the nutrition teacher and Physical Fitness teacher. Our house, along with 2 other homes, serve as the host houses where the classes are held 2 times per week. Different teachers come in and teach in the Garage or Kitchen or Living Room. There are 80 children in the program from 1st through 12th grade. WW and neighbor mom are the organizers/brains of the program. Neighbor mom gave me the book "Surviving An Affair". She's on "the family's side". Doesn't want to abandon WW. Is very fearful of the program coming to a halt.
She should be more fearful of an active wayward being in charge of guiding children. AR, ALL parents in this program should be told of your wife's adultery. They deserve the option to pull their children from this program. Will you expose to them?
Originally Posted by AR
My pastor knows and wants to talk to WW, but waiting for her to be ready.
I'm sorry, what does this mean? What exactly is he waiting for? "Ready"? No active wayward will ever be "ready" for being told what they are doing is out of line in the sight of God, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be told. The Bible has clear instruction regarding church discipline.
She should be more fearful of an active wayward being in charge of guiding children.
Agreed. This is a disaster, and the parents need to know. Think of your wife as a crack addict -- as an addict, she is in no position to provide a good education for these children, either morally or academically.
So we've (we = Other betrayed spouse & me) done a lot of exposure. OM is on the outs with his family and been kicked out. OBS has even called and consulted with Janice Chalmers on the phone. So OBS is waiting for the affair to die.
However, OM & WW are both in such a hurry for us to begin the process of dissolution of marriage. "Let's go find a mediator this week!!" seems to be their mantra.
WW definitely wants the best of both worlds - she wants to 1) stay in room upstairs; 2) get divorce ASAP; 3) arrange visitation so we don't occupy house at same time; 4)follow through on commitment to neighbor friend/colleague to finish the homeshcool deal this year; 5)be the "best mommy she can be" and keep things stable for children; and 6) go sleep with OM whenever it is convenient
AR,
Well that is awesome, but don't stop now -- continue to create as much chaos in the affair as possible -- continue exposure. Don't stop simply because you think you have the affair on the ropes -- settle for nothing less than a full blown knock-out.
Do not cooperate with any of your WW's foolish notions. Refuse to engage in any divorce conversations -- do not allow yourself to get sucked in. Let this be your mantra: "I don't talk divorce, my attorney does that. I only talk marriage."
I think having "supportive" FIL there when you tell the kids might be a mistake. You may know better than me...but often we see here that blood ends up being thicker than mud meaning your "supportive" fil may not be completely on your side when push come to shove in this dispute ---> divorce --->custody battle.
He may pre-warn your wife giving her the opportunity to spin it to the kids first...damaging them further and making the entire thing blow up more so than it has to. Also...he may testify against you in any child custody dispute and recollect your exposure to the kids in a completely negative manner making you out to be this completely vindictive parental alienator.
IMO...you are better off telling them alone so that only YOU can tell the story about what happened when you did so.
Mr. W <-----shocked to see my wife posting today, "hi, honey"!!!
Yes, she is the nutrition teacher and Physical Fitness teacher. Our house, along with 2 other homes, serve as the host houses where the classes are held 2 times per week. Different teachers come in and teach in the Garage or Kitchen or Living Room. There are 80 children in the program from 1st through 12th grade. WW and neighbor mom are the organizers/brains of the program. Neighbor mom gave me the book "Surviving An Affair". She's on "the family's side". Doesn't want to abandon WW. Is very fearful of the program coming to a halt.
I agree - this is MY LIFE and MY FAMILY. The home school program can survive.
My pastor knows and wants to talk to WW, but waiting for her to be ready. (WELS Lutheran - I'm a lifelong Lutheran, WW has followed where I led - she's not too much into the differences). I have been meeting with my pastor for the past 4 weeks about 2x / week. Also meeting with a christian counselor 1x-2x per week - about 7 sessions with him all told. WW met with a christian counselor once. We've both met with a counselor (JUST to talk about what to say to kids, mind you, not about our trainwreck marriage) 1x and will meet again this afternoon.
The OM and WW have taken down their Facebook acocunts. OM's 24 yr old daughter won't talk to him. We figure he has been pretty much exposed, but there are still people that do not know. OM was a pretty popular guy - everyone thought he was the king of the party and the great family man.
Ar2kids, the others have given you great advice! Expose to the other parents and anyone else who doesn't know. And tell your pastor he is needed NOW. NOW. You need him to speak to her NOW about ending her affair.
And I would seriously caution you against all this "counseling." Counseling is a DISASTER when there is an affair because counselors have absolutely no comprehension of the dynamics of the mentality of a cheater, and as such, tend to validate foggy thinking. Once that warped mindset is validated, it is 100 times harder to get through to her. I assure you that you don't have one counselor who has the foggiest idea how to save your marriage.
So please lay off the counseling. It is desrtructive to marriages and downright dangerous when there is an affair. It is a serious distraction at a time when you need to devote all your time to your marriage and your children.
I convinced her to leave for the evening and go to her lover's. I guess I was 'pissy' enough. Then she asked, "What are you going to tell the kids?" She may think I'm too chicken to tell them, but then again, she's probably wanting me to tell them because she herself is too chicken. She thinks I'm exacting a vendetta to humiliate her and destroy her reputation. I told her I just want her to stop this mistake of seeing this guy. She doesn't get it.
So...what do I tell our children?? I have some ideas, but how much truth about the affair do I tell them?? What are some exact words, from those of you who have had to tell their young kids 7 and 9 or around there?
I want to tell them the truth in love, but I'm a bit hesitant. I guess the reality is that there is nothing perfect to say. And her being at her lover's tonight when tomorrow she'll be with them and teaching in the home will be really ...risky. But I think it must be done. I can tell them and stay up with them to talk and snuggle.
I will have the opportunity in about an hour to 90 minutes. How long of a talk should it be? The 7 year old may not have as long of an attention span for this. do I tell them that OM is the guy? He's the one they know and have been duped for 4 years just like me and OS. I should think so.
AR, sit your kids down and tell them that mommy has a boyfriend. Tell them that it is wrong for mommy to have a boyfriend when she is married. Tell them that you love them and will never leave them. Ask them to pray for mommy.
Meet tomorrow morning's homeschool families at the door: apologize that you couldn't talk to them sooner. Let them know that your WW is having an affair and that your family needs their prayers. Apologize, and let them know that there won't be any classes held in your home for the foreseeable future.
The fact that your WW is crawling in the sheets with her OP tonight, and then shows up tomorrow to teach children with her makeup all in place and a perky smile on her face makes me sick. I homeschooled my children as well. There is NO WAY I would want an adulterer presenting herself to my children as a role model. Do the other homeschooling parents a favor and protect their families and children from your WW.
I will have the opportunity in about an hour to 90 minutes. How long of a talk should it be? The 7 year old may not have as long of an attention span for this. do I tell them that OM is the guy? He's the one they know and have been duped for 4 years just like me and OS. I should think so.
Tell them that their mother is having an affair with Joe Blow and that adultery is immoral. Explain to them that when a man and woman get married they are not supposed to have boyfriends or girlfriends. Give them his full name and explain that he is trying to break up their family and has done a terrible thing to you. If they see him they are to tell you immediately because he is to never be around them.
convinced her to leave for the evening and go to her lover's. I guess I was 'pissy' enough.
And STOP being a jerk to her. I know that is hard, but it is not strategically smart. You make that RAT OM look good in comparison. Start being very polite and civil. You will confuse her terribly if you do that.
I would be emailing all the homeschool parents TONIGHT so your exposures hit your wife in one tsunami. You lose the effectiveness of exposure when you trickle this out.
After you tell the kids, sit down and send out a mass email to the other homeschool parents telling them all about the affair.
Something like this:
Dear homeschool parents,
It is with the deepest regret that I write you this letter, but I felt you had a right to know. I am saddened to have discovered that my wife, Sally, has been having an affair with Joe Blow for approximately 4 years. Joe has left his family due to this affair.
My wife refuses to end the affair and is with him tonight.
I felt you had a right to know what is going on here because your children are homeschooled in my home, where this affair has taken place. You have a right to make informed decisions about your children.
Tell them that their mother is having an affair with Joe Blow and that adultery is immoral. Explain to them that when a man and woman get married they are not supposed to have boyfriends or girlfriends. Give them his full name and explain that he is trying to break up their family and has done a terrible thing to you. If they see him they are to tell you immediately because he is to never be around them.
Exactly this. Without anger in your voice but compassion for your children who will be going through a very difficult time for the foreseeable future.
Also, as MelodyLane said......STOP being a jerk. Every single time you lash out in nastyness/anger/rude remarks/etc.....you shoot yourself in the foot. Tell yourself that as you deal with her. Know that no matter what happens from this point on
you show your very best self as a decent and honorable man.
Actually, the affair never happened in this home, so far as I know. She and he kept it VERY secret. Like rendesvous-ing at parking lots, etc. Our neighbors are very loving and some are very nosy, so I'm pretty sure it never happened here.
yes. hmmm...I liked your wording. I don't know if I'm there yet.
I don't think anyone is ever really there, my friend, but it is extremely important that you time your exposures together as much as possible. Your children need to be told and the homeschool parents need to be informed too. You might as well do it all on the same night in order to inflict as much damage as possible to the affair. If you trickle it out, you will be dealing with a weakened exposure and TWO rages. Why not get your money's worth in ONE rage? She will be furious tomorrow when she finds out, so you might as well make it worthwhile.
GEt this part DONE so you can move onto next steps. Dragging out exposures is a strategic mistake that only helps the affair.
Actually, the affair never happened in this home, so far as I know. She and he kept it VERY secret. Like rendesvous-ing at parking lots, etc. Our neighbors are very loving and some are very nosy, so I'm pretty sure it never happened here.
If your wife says anything negative about having told the children, calmly tell her that you simply informed them of what is happening around them so they would not be confused.
Stay calm with WW. Do not let her reaction of the truth being exposed to the children let you turn angry/fearful/etc.
I would be emailing all the homeschool parents TONIGHT so your exposures hit your wife in one tsunami. You lose the effectiveness of exposure when you trickle this out.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I don't think anyone is ever really there, my friend, but it is extremely important that you time your exposures together as much as possible. Your children need to be told and the homeschool parents need to be informed too. You might as well do it all on the same night in order to inflict as much damage as possible to the affair. If you trickle it out, you will be dealing with a weakened exposure and TWO rages. Why not get your money's worth in ONE rage? She will be furious tomorrow when she finds out, so you might as well make it worthwhile.
Get this part DONE so you can move onto next steps. Dragging out exposures is a strategic mistake that only helps the affair.
AR2kids,
Please listen to what ML is telling you here. Do not drag out this exposure! Voice of experience here, dragging it out will only make it worse. Be strong and rip off that band aid! You need to fight for your family here and COMPLETE exposure is you best, most ethical. Use it.
The longer you let it go, the LESS effective it will be.
Yep - she came home and was pissed. Thanks for the advice. (I recorded about 20 min of my talk with kids, lest anyone accuse me of telling any un-truths. And I sent the first 10 min to OM, saying "I dare you to listen to this". So he and WW did listen to it. )
She said, How can you let your anger with me do this to our kids??
Actually, the affair never happened in this home, so far as I know. She and he kept it VERY secret. Like rendesvous-ing at parking lots, etc. Our neighbors are very loving and some are very nosy, so I'm pretty sure it never happened here.
Have you exposed the affair to your neighbors? They are in a unique position to help you guard against the OM coming to your home. Have they seen him hanging around over there? What did the kids say about this?
The neighbors that we are close to have been informed and have been very supportive. The one neighbor who coordinates the homeschool program is the one who gave me Surviving An Affair. I honestly do not think this OM has any reason to come down to our part of town. It was always WW sneaking out and they would rendezvous elsewhere. I think WW has been very careful to keep it secret and wouldn't take any chances around the house.
But she's pissed that I broke my promise and told kids anyway. Therapist said, "this was too soon and perhaps very harmful to the kids". She wanted more time with WW and me to "sort out" what would be appropriate for the children to know right now, and at their age.
The therapist (and the FIL (who supports me and getting WW out of the affair)) recommend counseling for the children.
MelodyLane - I have taken your advice (because I agree with it), and other people want to know "Who is giving you this advice that is contrary to the professionals who you are paying?" They might think that you are just an anonymous post-er. I know that there are rules to this forum and a moderator. If I were to further defend my actions, I want to point them to Harley/Chalmers, but they might say "who is this melody lane?? What are his/her credentials?"
Quote: Therapist said, "this was too soon and perhaps very harmful to the kids" End Quote:
Dump that therapist.
That statement during a counseling session together is completely biased and borderline unethical.
They are supposed to deal with the circumstances at hand, not chastise one spouse in front of the other and seemingly take sides.
Relay that you are using Surviving An Affair as the basis for the advice on how best to extinguish the obvious elephant in the room, which is the primary 1st goal before you can redirect attentions to recreating romantic feelings for each other, along with safeguarding your marriage and family from outside betrayers to your marriage.
The truth is the best defense. Ask if it's wrong to tell the truth or wrong to betray your family. The affair is what is damaging, not the truth being concealed.
If a woman is getting her emotional needs met by an interloper to your marriage, you will be unable to make any LB Deposits to her, because her bank is closed off to any of the deposits you are trying to make.
I should have qualified that the therapist said this in an email to me. She is on my side regarding getting the marriage back together and making things work for the kids. It was not in front of WW.
However, your point is well-taken, and again, I agree with those points and this approach. Thanks again so much
I should have qualified that the therapist said this in an email to me. She is on my side regarding getting the marriage back together and making things work for the kids. It was not in front of WW.
However, your point is well-taken, and again, I agree with those points and this approach. Thanks again so much
I would respond to the counselor with what LearnedTooLate said:
Quote
They are supposed to deal with the circumstances at hand, not chastise one spouse in front of the other and seemingly take sides.
Relay that you are using Surviving An Affair as the basis for the advice on how best to extinguish the obvious elephant in the room, which is the primary 1st goal before you can redirect attentions to recreating romantic feelings for each other, along with safeguarding your marriage and family from outside betrayers to your marriage.
The truth is the best defense. Ask if it's wrong to tell the truth or wrong to betray your family. The affair is what is damaging, not the truth being concealed.
If a woman is getting her emotional needs met by an interloper to your marriage, you will be unable to make any LB Deposits to her, because her bank is closed off to any of the deposits you are trying to make.
MelodyLane - I have taken your advice (because I agree with it), and other people want to know "Who is giving you this advice that is contrary to the professionals who you are paying?" They might think that you are just an anonymous post-er. I know that there are rules to this forum and a moderator. If I were to further defend my actions, I want to point them to Harley/Chalmers, but they might say "who is this melody lane?? What are his/her credentials?"
I have *NO* credentials other than to sell soft drinks. I only know how to SCREW UP marriages. All of the advice we gave you is from Dr Bill Harley. The credentials of Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi2000_meet.html
Now, can you please post your therapist's credentials so we can check them? How many years experience? What university? What degree? What books has she authored and how many marriages has she saved. It should be fair to ask her credentials since I provided Dr Harley's.
I should have qualified that the therapist said this in an email to me. She is on my side regarding getting the marriage back together and making things work for the kids. It was not in front of WW.
However, your point is well-taken, and again, I agree with those points and this approach. Thanks again so much
Most therapists have absolutely no idea how to save a marriage after an affair, Dr Harley DOES. Here is what he says about exposure in his book Surviving an Affair:
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
"The issue of exposure comes up when a betrayed spouse has first learned about the affair. Should it be exposed to others, or kept secret? I generally recommend exposure. When should it be exposed? I usually recommend that it be exposed immediately. To whom should it be exposed? I recommend that family, friends, children, clergy, and especially, the lover's spouse be informed. Exposure in the workplace depends on several factors."
Ha - that's great MelodyLane! The counselor has Dr. Harley's book on her shelf. She's got 35 yrs experience, but it doesn't matter. I hear ya. And no, I don't think she's saved anywhere near as many marriages! Cheers!
Ha - that's great MelodyLane! The counselor has Dr. Harley's book on her shelf. She's got 35 yrs experience, but it doesn't matter. I hear ya. And no, I don't think she's saved anywhere near as many marriages! Cheers!
Dr Harley has 40 so he has her beat! He also has 17 books under his belt is the leading expert on infidelity.
Ha - that's great MelodyLane! The counselor has Dr. Harley's book on her shelf. She's got 35 yrs experience, but it doesn't matter. I hear ya. And no, I don't think she's saved anywhere near as many marriages! Cheers!
Dr Harley has 40 so he has her beat! He also has 17 books under his belt is the leading expert on infidelity.
19 books! Not to mention he has been happily married himself for 50 years.
We went to marriage counseling for over a year before finding Dr. Harley and this forum. And I'll add I liked our counselor very much and she had over 35 years experience. She was even experienced in infidelity and addiction. What she lacked was a PLAN to restore the marriage.
But she's pissed that I broke my promise and told kids anyway. Therapist said, "this was too soon and perhaps very harmful to the kids".
Willard Harley, PhD, clinical psychologist, on telling the children:
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home. ___________________________________ A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.
Quote
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
If your therapist has bona fide evidence that telling children the truth, versus lies and affairs, is harmful to children, she can contact Dr Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and discuss it with him.
AR, exposing to my children did NOT damage them at all. It had the opposite effect. It alleviated the anxiety and stress DS was dealing with because he knew SOMETHING was happening he just did not understand what.
I believe he was doing exactly what Dr Harley says children do if they are not told the truth, they blame the marital problems and tension in the home on themselves.
I can also testify to this from the other side - when I was young, my parents exposed affairs to me from two close family members, one when I was about 9 and the other when I was a pre-teen. In both cases, I knew something was very wrong before they told me. It did not damage me in the least. It taught me a lot about honesty and how damaging affairs are.
AR, You have gotten excellent advice on this thread, and you did well telling your children the truth. What your counselor doesn't understand is that exposure, according to Dr. Harley, is the best chance at ending an affair because it pops the fantasy bubble. You popped it big time by telling your children, and if you let the other shoe drop by telling the home school parents, you will have completed your exposure.
After awhile, things will go south in fantasy land. They almost always do. And that will be your chance to recover your marriage.
But it takes time, and in the meantime, you must soldier through plan A.
Expose to the parents, and them begin an earnest Plan A if you want to save your marriage.
I discovered my own mother's affair years ago. I guarantee I was not damaged in the slightest. On the contrary I was very helped to learn the truth.
Today I am grown and happy in life, well-adjusted, happily married, a father of wonderful children, fairly successful in life by nearly any measure.
It did not damage me to find out the truth about my life.
What might've damaged me would've been if I had not found out the truth and had continued to live for a few more years in an environment where my mother was doing something very destructive to me.
Yes you need to expose to the homeschool parents. The fact is your counselor hasnt counseled 50,000 couples and become a regognized national expert on marriage: Dr Harley is.
Regarding exposure to kids, alcoholic families often lie to children to make excuses for the alcoholics behavior. I witnessed it and participated in lying to my kids for years to cover up an alcoholics behaviors. My ex wife has complained that i have "grown up" conversations with the children by exposing alcoholic behaviors and her affair.
The TRUTH is that my children are better prepared for adulthood when they are not lied to and so will your children be.
Regarding exposure to kids, alcoholic families often lie to children to make excuses for the alcoholics behavior. I witnessed it and participated in lying to my kids for years to cover up an alcoholics behaviors. My ex wife has complained that i have "grown up" conversations with the children by exposing alcoholic behaviors and her affair.
The TRUTH is that my children are better prepared for adulthood when they are not lied to and so will your children be.
This is so true. Children that are raised in alcoholic homes are so confused and disconnected from reality due to those lies. They see things that look WRONG and are told they are RIGHT. That is one way to screw up a kid and keep him confused well into adulthood. I was raised in such an atmosphere by a wayward and an alcoholic. Parents who lie to little children steal reality from them.
So WW is sleeping upstairs and I'm being nice and she's being nice...but I still can't get over seeing so many reminders (like family photos around the house that are less than 4 years old - she was in the affair when these photos were taken) of the affair that SHE IS STILL ENGAGED IN!!
But I cannot leave my house!
I can't bear to look at her and can't seem to get it out of my mind. Because she walks around like she has for the last 4 years like she's happy and content, except she doesn't embrace or kiss me to keep a secret anymore.
I still feel like she's getting away with it. And my kids haven't talked to me about the issue since I told them the truth. And I have no idea what WW has talked to them about. Should I be asking the kids, "What did you and mommy talk about? What questions did you ask mommy about her affair?" Those seem a little out of line and insecure, and could put some uncertainty/distrust in their minds, and I want them to trust me.
First off, I would expose to the other homeschooling parents as we suggested. Affairs thrive on secrecy so keeping it secret in that small part of her world allows her to continue to pretend that all is well there. You can leave them no rocks to hide under. Everyone in her life should know what she has done.
You cannot AFFORD to skip any exposure opportunities because this affair has gone on for a very long time and is very entrenched. In order to kill it you have to drag it out into the light of day. You cannot afford to LEAVE ONE STONE UNTURNED.
Encourage your kids to express their disappointment in their mother. They should feel free to ask her to end her affair.
DEMAND that your wife end her affair andc end all contact as long as she is in your home. Tell her it is profoundly disrespectful to you and your children to be carryin on an affair while living there. Ask her to move out if she is going to conduct her affair becuase it is too painful to you and the kids. <-----be a broken record on this aspect.
It would actually be better if she did move out and in with the OM becuase reality will destroy their affair pretty fast. Their relationship is built on deceit, thoughtlessness and selfishness and as soon as they are together in the open all of those traits will kill it.
Be nice to her but raise holy unmitigated HELL on the affair. Do you understand?
That is exactly right.
The day that I confirmed that my FWW was having an affair, I told her matter-of-factly: "Either you leave him or you leave the house." No disrespectful judgments, no angry outbursts, no tears, and no pleading.
She said, "I'm not leaving him." And she left. She now calls it the worst year of her life.
Be firm and strong. But also let her know you love her and want her to return to a marriage that can be happy.
She is in the fog and it is thick. Only through your full exposure and letting her feel the consequences of her actions will it lift. Her affair is a joke. You know it. Your friends and family know it. And one day the fog will lift and she will know it too. If you do a proper plan a, you will be her landing place.
Unfortunately, she is not leaving the house. She is hell-bent on divorce. She thinks all my exposure actions to stop the affair were made out of anger and that "you're just trying to destroy my reputation" (which is quite laughable).
She thinks she can just live upstairs and be the happy mommy and sleep with the POS across town, and she is apparently not concerned that she is giving our children an example of how to be a cheating adultress and how to be cruelly disrespectful to the man that has provided so much in 11 years.
I am done exposing. The fact is that my wife is too stubborn and just won't 'move' on this. I will do my best at a proper plan a, but really only to give the children a good example of turning the other cheek. They will see and learn.
There is nothing else that I can do. And come on you guys: FOUR YEARS is a LONG TIME. How many 4-yr affairs have been recovered from?
A famous talk-radio therapist says, "Choose wisely and treat nicely". I still look back 11-12 years ago and think I chose wisely, but the woman in the house is not that same woman I married. And a 4-year cloud of lies seems to me irreparable.
The other cheating spouse has been exposed and completely shunned from his family, yet my WW is his place of comfort, and I suspect she feels the same. They are now digging into each others arms.
I'm ready to say good riddance to her childish actions and behavior, and I don't want to see her face. But I don't really have a choice. I will never leave my children, and they are in the home, and that's where I'll be. So I'll suck it up (like I'm sure so many others have done) and ride it out until the divorce is final and the school year is done.
I have reached the point where I can say, "I've tried everything I can, and if we end up divorced, I won't have any regrets." The only thing positive (is it really??) is that she's still in the house. And if I do the plan A, maybe there is something that will get deposited. But I'm not holding my breath. She is a lost soul.
Their affair will collapse. All the shame from family will have an impact. To protect yourself, file first. Get the best attorney you can. Put her on the hot seat!!
Please expose to homeschooling families. They need to know but it will deal a pretty big blow to the affair. They are in shock and running for shelter now but as the reality sets in, you're going to see this thing shift quickly.
And it's not marriage at all costs. Sometimes divorce is the best outcome. With kids though, every effort should be made to keep the family intact if possible.
Get the toughest attorney possible and ask for everything. Full custody, marital home, etc. You won't get it but you'll scare the daylights out of her and throw more cold water on her fantasy future.
FightTheFight: I have exposed to everyone that matters. And it hasn't done any good. She just dug in and got madder. Everyone we know that was involved with our wedding and our life in any close way knows. None of those people approve. And WW is fine with that.
She is seemingly fine with it now but as time goes on, the exposure will continue to work its healing power. She will find that it gets worse as she goes along with everyone she's ever known turned away from her.
She'll be dealing with the kids' disappointment and her skank-man's emotional upheaval as well. This is just the beginning.
You need to give this some time to set in. She's about to get very, very depressed. Especially when she sees the hard-a$$ divorce petition.
FightTheFight: I have exposed to everyone that matters. And it hasn't done any good. She just dug in and got madder. Everyone we know that was involved with our wedding and our life in any close way knows. None of those people approve. And WW is fine with that.
EVERY wayward gets angry at exposure. This is not new. It's expected. Your marriage can survive her anger over this.
FightTheFight: I have exposed to everyone that matters. And it hasn't done any good. She just dug in and got madder. Everyone we know that was involved with our wedding and our life in any close way knows. None of those people approve. And WW is fine with that.
EVERY wayward gets angry at exposure. This is not new. It's expected. Your marriage can survive her anger over this.
This is exactly right. If she is mad, then you are making progress because it is making this A a real problem for her. Don't expect results right away. This is a process and is not going to be solved in just a few days.
Yes - all the OM has been exposed. EVERYTHING. He has nothing left except for those people that are sympathetic to him or those people who have cheated just like him and all they say is "Sorry, dude". His children and parents and in-laws and neighbors have stopped all contact with him. He's staying in a nice guest-house that a stupid, sympathetic,(and female, of course) co-worker has let him use. And WW has been over there several times.
The homeschool parents is a different issue. As I have repeatedly said, MOST of them know. The ones that MATTER do know. To tell EVERYONE is not my call. But think about 1998 when Bill Clinton got exposed with Monica Lewinski. Over half the nation said, "But the economy is good - we don't care what he does personally". They didn't care about his character. And most parents only care that WW can teach effectively. They are not friends of mine or WW.
The homeschool parents do not know me, because the school is run my my wife and our neighbor. I am always at work. Some of the parents and some of the teachers (the ones that matter) know, and WW knows that they know. She's talked to them and tells them the same thing: "I'm going to stay committed to the school until May and by then we'll be divorced."
The neighbor/school partner is looking for a way out - and it is her call - because she thinks what WW is doing is disgusting. And she was betrayed when she entered into agreement, thinking that WW was above board and not keeping dirty secrets. But that way out will only come in time. So stop it - it ain't gonna help. It amounts to idle gossip at this point.
The fact is that some or most people will only be concerned if this affects her ability to teach. Those will not condemn her or take their kids out of the program because they are happy with what the program is doing for them.
The affair may fizzle out - probably will, but that is out of my control. The people that don't know right now are acquaintances - at best - of WW. All of her close friends and inner circle know. So PLEASE.. stop with the demands to tell more people. Why should I tell everyone in our church?? She doesn't go anyway!! All the people that she knows and talks with for more than 5 minutes a week ALREADY KNOW.
You don't seem to get it - she is stubborn and has only hunkered down. The LAST people to find out are my 7 and 9 year olds. And they are doing the typical thing - putting it out of their minds.
I asked my 7-yr old boy, "Do you have any questions for me or mommy?" He said, "I only asked Mommy one thing: 'Will you ever sleep in same bed as Daddy again?', and Mommy said, 'Never, ever, ever, will I sleep in the same bed as Daddy.'"
People - this is a FOUR-YEAR affair, and she says she loves him and wants out of the marriage from me!
What about my question about FOUR YEAR affairs?? Who is going to give me any good odds on THAT??
The homeschool parents is a different issue. As I have repeatedly said, MOST of them know. The ones that MATTER do know. To tell EVERYONE is not my call. But think about 1998 when Bill Clinton got exposed with Monica Lewinski. Over half the nation said, "But the economy is good - we don't care what he does personally". They didn't care about his character. And most parents only care that WW can teach effectively. They are not friends of mine or WW.
You're not understanding the full purpose of exposure. It doesn't matter if they care. What matters is they know Affairs thrive on secrecy. The more that know, the quicker the affair dies. Even if those who know don't care. This is the quickest way to KILL HER AFFAIR.
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People - this is a FOUR-YEAR affair, and she says she loves him and wants out of the marriage from me!
So? We've seen it before. It happens all the time. This is NOT a unique situation. Marriages have recovered from FAR WORSE.
By that logic, I should post it in the newspaper, hang a banner on my house with a large, scarlet A, post it on my facebook for all my friends (even though she has taken down her facebook page) and hang a banner over my church and our old church. That would get MAXIMUM exposure.
How about if I just *tell* her that I've told everyone and that everyone now knows. She's not going to approach them to verify. that does just the same. I'll consider that.
Yes - I understand the full purpose of exposure. the neighbor is reading this discussion and will make up her mind.
I appreciate your care and concern and comments. They are most helpful for me to consider with all the other opinions. Please understand I am not discounting what you say. I am saying that I'm done with the exposure, and leaving it in God's hands. If there is something else that you can offer - please offer it.
By that logic, I should post it in the newspaper, hang a banner on my house with a large, scarlet A, post it on my facebook for all my friends (even though she has taken down her facebook page) and hang a banner over my church and our old church. That would get MAXIMUM exposure.
Why in the world would that justify a scarlet A? The point here is to expose, not shame.
People who are letting their children into your wife's presence deserve to know so that they can decide whether she's a good influence on their children or not. (That's kind of the whole point of homeschooling, at least for a lot of homeschoolers.)
By that logic, I should post it in the newspaper, hang a banner on my house with a large, scarlet A, post it on my facebook for all my friends (even though she has taken down her facebook page) and hang a banner over my church and our old church. That would get MAXIMUM exposure.
If your kids were at school with a crack addict what would you be willing to do to expose the danger to your children? How about other's children?
Your wife is a danger to children right now. Do you want to do whats right? or whats easy?
There is nothing else that I can do. And come on you guys: FOUR YEARS is a LONG TIME. How many 4-yr affairs have been recovered from?
TWELVE years here. Three times as long as your wife's A.
Not recovered yet, but willing to do the recovery work and we are both working harder than ever before in our lives. Ups and downs for sure, but who amongst us can absolutely know our future with certainty?
You are certainly within your rights to call it quits, but there really are many recovered long term A posters on here.
There is nothing else that I can do. And come on you guys: FOUR YEARS is a LONG TIME. How many 4-yr affairs have been recovered from?
Lots of them, in Dr. Harley's experience. Many marriages he's known have had serial infidelity and recovered. The choice is yours.
You still need to try to fight this affair - your children will still have to deal with OM afterward, if you don't. And, statistically speaking, he's a lot more likely to be some sort of predator than someone who respects others.
The fact is that some or most people will only be concerned if this affects her ability to teach.
That's my point - a woman having an affair is not a fit teacher. Of course it affects her ability to teach!
After you've told people they can make up their OWN minds whether they trust her to teach their children any more or not. Trying to make up other people's minds for them is kinda low down, if you ask me.
I wouldn't want my children being taught by someone who is having an affair. And I know for a fact they are not! In addition to our own homeschooled children, my wife teaches children from two other families one day a week, and I assure you I would tell those two families immediately if she was having an affair! (She'd do the same about me.)
Ar2kids, you are making strategic mistakes by not exposing to the homeschool parents. We don't care who does or doesn't care, that does not matter. That completely misses the point. The point is to leave your wife no place to hide and to bring pressure on her from all quarters. You can't afford to skip any step because your wife has had a 4 yr affair. It is very entrenched. This is not the time to be timid.
And if someone else gives you advice not to expose, then I strenuously question their qualification and would invite them to come here and defend that advice. Everyone should know about the affair who is connected to your wife.
Exposure is THERAPEUTIC, not toxic, and your marriage needs all the therapy it can get. You simply cannot afford to cut corners.
"ey are most helpful for me to consider with all the other opinions. Please understand I am not discounting what you say. I am saying that I'm done with the exposure, and leaving it in God's hands. If there is something else that you can offer - please offer it."
No it is not helpful for you to consider all "opinions," it is just causing you to be confused and to make strategic mistakes that you can ill afford.
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. Ephesians 5:11
Yes, Markos, I have mentioned many times in the posts that I have the book and have read it.
There is the concept of the "secret fantasy" mentioned in the book. Part of that is that my WW has compartmentalized the whole secret. On all other fronts, she is the happy housewife with all of her ducks in a row. And people do trust her. So to say that she is a danger to children without reading the entirety of this string is an irresponsible rush to judgement, and I kindly ask you to refrain from such nonsense. She is still keeping it a secret and she is ashamed and well aware of Matthew 18:6.
Blindsighted - thank you for your sharing. There is one data point for me.
I can accomplish the same thing by telling WW that I've told everyone. She's not going to bother to verify - she's simply going to get more angry and think I'm more of a jerk. But none of your arguments for telling the group have convinced me. The TRUTH is that she is only going to do what she wants to do. A crack addict continues in their addiction until someone FORCES them to stop because there are laws that allow the authorities to take them in due to the harm they cause themselves and others. In this case of adultery, I cannot FORCE her to do anything, otherwise I will get slapped with assault or worse. There are no laws against two people having consensual sex.
Your analogy is broken. The behavior is addictive, yes, but the danger to kids is different. Tell me, how do you absolutely know that the teachers are not doing something in secret that you would find objectionable? Have you inquired ad nauseum just to make sure? But yet, you find them to be good teachers, yes? There are SOME things that you may never know, and that is why we have faith in an omniscient and omnipotent God, who is faithful and just and full of mercy. And at this point, I'm going to let all the effects of the other exposures manifest themselves.
Look - God is in control. Not me. Not WW. Not MarriageBuilders.
I am not quitting or giving up. I am going to love her as Christ loves the Church, ...that she would be holy and blameless.
Yes, Markos, I have mentioned many times in the posts that I have the book and have read it.
There is the concept of the "secret fantasy" mentioned in the book. Part of that is that my WW has compartmentalized the whole secret. On all other fronts, she is the happy housewife with all of her ducks in a row. And people do trust her. So to say that she is a danger to children without reading the entirety of this string is an irresponsible rush to judgement, and I kindly ask you to refrain from such nonsense. She is still keeping it a secret and she is ashamed and well aware of Matthew 18:6.
Blindsighted - thank you for your sharing. There is one data point for me.
Hmmm. Total gibberish AR. Marcos is one of the most knowledgeable and experienced members here.
How is plan AR doing so far? If you want help recovering your marriage that stop the fogspeak and listen.
Your wife is carrying on an affair with a scumbag outside of your marriage. That moral decisions makes her a danger to children. If shes willing to do such a heinous crime against you than who knows what she could do with children.
Also who are you to decide whats a danger to other people kids. Let them decide. They deserve the truth.
Shes keeping it a secret because she wants to continue to have sex with the scumbag and if she's "aware" of Mat 18:6 she is choosing to spit in the face of God as well as endanger you, your family and the other children.
If you don't want help then please stop wasting our time. There are others here willing to listen and willing to follow the plan who are currently recovering their marriages.
I am not quitting or giving up. I am going to love her as Christ loves the Church, ...that she would be holy and blameless.
While she screws other men?
What a terrible plan and a complete misrepresentation of God. God says to expose darkness. God says to confront sin. "Loving" your wife would be killing the affair not sticking your head in the sand.
Look - God is in control. Not me. Not WW. Not MarriageBuilders.
Satan is the prince of this world. Check your scripture. Remember, there was the fall into sin. God has provided you with resources to deal with this. If you refuse to act, whose will are you really doing?
"Look - God is in control. Not me. Not WW. Not MarriageBuilders."
Actually the devil is in control when you help an adulterer hide her adultery and allow people to unknowingly leave their children in her care. You give power to evil. You are leaving an unfit adult in charge of children for personally selfish reasons. I don't many parents that would want an unrepentant adulterer to teach their children and you are denying these parents to make the choice to remove their children.
Why? For what possible reason can you justify this?
Look - God is in control. Not me. Not WW. Not MarriageBuilders.
God is in control and we are his Body.
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But if we are the body Why aren't His arms reaching? Why aren't His hands healing? Why aren't His words teaching? And if we are the body Why aren't His feet going?
So WW is sleeping upstairs and I'm being nice and she's being nice...but I still can't get over seeing so many reminders (like family photos around the house that are less than 4 years old - she was in the affair when these photos were taken) of the affair that SHE IS STILL ENGAGED IN!!
But I cannot leave my house!
I can't bear to look at her and can't seem to get it out of my mind. Because she walks around like she has for the last 4 years like she's happy and content, except she doesn't embrace or kiss me to keep a secret anymore.
I still feel like she's getting away with it. And my kids haven't talked to me about the issue since I told them the truth. And I have no idea what WW has talked to them about. Should I be asking the kids, "What did you and mommy talk about? What questions did you ask mommy about her affair?" Those seem a little out of line and insecure, and could put some uncertainty/distrust in their minds, and I want them to trust me.
Why are you quitting? This is a war. That is what saving your marriage and your kids family. Why are you afraid to ask your kids what WW said? How else are you going to know how she lied to them? Believe that is exactly what your WW did.
Also BH's have defeated affairs longer then 4 years.
FightTheFight: I have exposed to everyone that matters. And it hasn't done any good. She just dug in and got madder. Everyone we know that was involved with our wedding and our life in any close way knows. None of those people approve. And WW is fine with that.
Instead of fighting you fold as if you were made out of manila.
Home school parents are a great exposure target.
You will not expose why bother to plan A?
Are you trying to prove something by fighting with one hand tied behind your back and wearing a blind fold?
I can accomplish the same thing by telling WW that I've told everyone. She's not going to bother to verify - she's simply going to get more angry and think I'm more of a jerk. But none of your arguments for telling the group have convinced me.
Don't play games with this. Don't try to 'fake your wife out' by telling her you've done something you haven't. Stand up, stand tall and do the right thing to kill this affair.
Exposure of the affair is to expose the affair to people who are in a position to encourage your WW to end it. You don't know who that person may be.
Yep. She's going to get angry. Nothing ticks a wayward off faster than the disclosure to her world that the way she has presented herself has been a lie. They don't like to get caught in lies and have to defend their actions - because their actions are indefensible.
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Tell me, how do you absolutely know that the teachers are not doing something in secret that you would find objectionable?
You don't. Of COURSE, you know that. And what they're doing doesn't matter, here - we're talking about YOUR wayward. We're not interested in what the other parents are doing.
One thing that I saw when I was homeschooling my kids: the parents were trusting of the other homeschooling parents - we were devoted to a common cause of teaching our children outside of the public school system. That fact alone gave us a certain feeling of trust. It is a feeling that is not deserved, as your sitch shows.
There is NO WAY I would have had my children exposed to an adulterer who was presenting themselves as a role model.
By that logic, I should post it in the newspaper, hang a banner on my house with a large, scarlet A, post it on my facebook for all my friends (even though she has taken down her facebook page) and hang a banner over my church and our old church. That would get MAXIMUM exposure.
How about if I just *tell* her that I've told everyone and that everyone now knows. She's not going to approach them to verify. that does just the same. I'll consider that.
Yes - I understand the full purpose of exposure. the neighbor is reading this discussion and will make up her mind.
I appreciate your care and concern and comments. They are most helpful for me to consider with all the other opinions. Please understand I am not discounting what you say. I am saying that I'm done with the exposure, and leaving it in God's hands. If there is something else that you can offer - please offer it.
We are advising you to expose the affair to the people who are in the best position to encourage her to end the affair. No one has advised you to put up a banner - please show me where you're seeing this. You are being recalcitrant and are balking, which tells me that you are afraid to do the work required to expose. You need to lose this attitude. It will not help you.
So to say that she is a danger to children without reading the entirety of this string is an irresponsible rush to judgement, and I kindly ask you to refrain from such nonsense. She is still keeping it a secret and she is ashamed and well aware of Matthew 18:6.
No. Markos is correct. She is currently living in sin. She has zero business in guiding young lives while she is trashing her own and that of her family. That's simple logic. If you need more confirmation, do a poll at your church and ask them what THEY think. (You exposed to the church, right?)
No child should have to be "educated" by an adult who is actively destroying the child's family. The fact that the "adult" in this case is the children's own mother, makes it exponentially worse. Show your children the care and respect they deserve. Get them out of their mother's soap opera and into a setting where they can actually focus on their schoolwork. Enroll them in public or private school. Let WW deal with the homeschool fallout. Those are the natural consequences of her choices.
I bet you feel like you are getting beat up here. And you're not the one having the affair!
There is a good reason for all of the advice you are getting here. Consider that you are in as much of a fog as you WW right now. You can see her fog. The seemingly futile task of trying to convince her to do something that's in her own best interest.
You can't see your own right now. Think about it. People here are not trying to ruin your life. They know what works.
You say leave it in God's hands. Please consider it's possible God has sent you here for a reason.
No child should have to be "educated" by an adult who is actively destroying the child's family. The fact that the "adult" in this case is the children's own mother, makes it exponentially worse. Show your children the care and respect they deserve. Get them out of their mother's soap opera and into a setting where they can actually focus on their schoolwork. Enroll them in public or private school. Let WW deal with the homeschool fallout. Those are the natural consequences of her choices.
I disagree. AR's children do not need to go to public school at this point. His children can continue to be educated in a homeschooling setting. The other parents will take on the schooling that his WW has abdicated by her affair. This is natural in a homeschooling group - the members of the group will 'pick up the slack'.
No child should have to be "educated" by an adult who is actively destroying the child's family. The fact that the "adult" in this case is the children's own mother, makes it exponentially worse. Show your children the care and respect they deserve. Get them out of their mother's soap opera and into a setting where they can actually focus on their schoolwork. Enroll them in public or private school. Let WW deal with the homeschool fallout. Those are the natural consequences of her choices.
I disagree. AR's children do not need to go to public school at this point. His children can continue to be educated in a homeschooling setting. The other parents will take on the schooling that his WW has abdicated by her affair. This is natural in a homeschooling group - the members of the group will 'pick up the slack'.
You're correct - she hasn't abdicated yet. My point is that AR's kids don't need to be plunked into a public school just because his wife is wayward.
Her teaching role needs to be removed from her.
I would never recommend that the kids be put into public school at this point.
So you feel that AR's children should be subjected to this until . . . when? At what point would you recommend that the children be granted a reprieve from this horrendous situation? It sounds like WW has no intention of abdicating her role, and no one is going to remove her from the position.
So you feel that AR's children should be subjected to this until . . . when? At what point would you recommend that the children be granted a reprieve from this horrendous situation? It sounds like WW has no intention of abdicating her role, and no one is going to remove her from the position.
First of all, remember that AR's kids are being subjected to 'this' regardless of their schooling. Public, private, homeschool - his WW is still betraying them. Putting them in public school would change nothing. NOTHING is going to 'remove them from this horrendous situation' until his WW leaves OM. Which has NOTHING to do with their education.
You have obviously never been involved in homeschooling. AR's homeschooling community will surround his kids and will teach them - they will pick up the slack that his WW once filled.
So you feel that AR's children should be subjected to this until . . . when? At what point would you recommend that the children be granted a reprieve from this horrendous situation? It sounds like WW has no intention of abdicating her role, and no one is going to remove her from the position.
First of all, remember that AR's kids are being subjected to 'this' regardless of their schooling. Public, private, homeschool - his WW is still betraying them. Putting them in public school would change nothing. NOTHING is going to 'remove them from this horrendous situation' until his WW leaves OM. Which has NOTHING to do with their education.
You have obviously never been involved in homeschooling. AR's homeschooling community will surround his kids and will teach them - they will pick up the slack that his WW once filled.
Your arguments are based on logical fallacies.
The horrendous situation to which I referred was clearly defined in my previous post: It is requiring a child to be "educated" by an adult who is destroying the child's family. Your rebuttal contained a straw man logical fallacy. You attributed to me a ridiculous claim that I did not make. I did not suggest that sending the children to a different school would magically stop WW's infidelity. That is absurd. If you want to attack someone's position, you cannot misrepresent it.
Also, the fact that I suggested the children should be treated respectfully tells you nothing whatsoever regarding my personal experience regarding homeschooling. Again, that was an illogical conclusion. Your argument also incorporated an ad populum fallacy. Your suggestion that homeschoolers have shared values or beliefs that I couldn't understand unless I was one, is also illogical.
And your assertion that they will fill WW's role eventually is a red herring fallacy. I didn't suggest they would have trouble filling her role if she left; I didn't even address that issue because it is irrelevant. She isn't leaving! My point was that WW's children should not be forced to learn in that environment, and certainly not for an indefinite period. Dr. Harley has even stated that the children of a wayward should not be forced to deal with that parent if they don't want to, yet this forces them to deal with her as a teacher every single day. I can't imagine Dr. Harley would endorse putting a wayward's children in this situation.
The only thing I have to add is to tell AR that sometimes it takes a little time for the effects of the exposure to manifest themselves. So don't give up! In my case my WW was involved in a 1.5 year affair. I exposed on July 25, and she didn't agree to end the affair until August 19th. So don't give up, don't be afraid to expose to more people, and above all keep praying and trusting that the Lord will stand by you in your time of need.
If the marriage does not survive due to the affair, are the children going to continue to be homeschooled? By Mom? By Dad?
Be open to re-designing the situation AR.
(I have home schooled... private schooled and public schooled my children.....it is possible to switch gears)
Is WW a stay at home mom? Then, you are funding her affair. Will you continue to fund her if the marriage goes kaput? If the OM is more alluring than the status quo?
Think of various angles of this as you move forward.
Let's stop the debate about schooling and help this poster resolve his immediate problems. This is not the appropriate time or place for an extended debate about a side issue.
Hey Blindsighted - how old were your children when exposed? how old are they now? What got your WW out of the affair?
Our daughters are 29 and 26, much older than your children. An interesting tidbit that may help you though, is that the 26 yo has much anger about this due to the fact that she knew that something was going on back then and never told me. The 29 yo has stated to both of us that she realized that her Dad did not put her first, and that she appreciates (now) knowing that it wasn't because of HER.
Children NOTICE!
My husband was the wayward spouse. I had not found this site yet when he went no contact, but I did somehow do a fair job of instinctively following the suggestions on this site.
Once his A had been shown the light of day, he turned back to me and went no contact. He did get angry at first and try to blame things on me. I instinctively did what Marcos and others have suggested to you...pretty much responded to him by pleasantly offering him a bowl of popcorn. Seriously!
AR2kids, not sure if you know this, but you can click on any person's screen name and then click to show their posts. Then go back to the first post to see their "story" (if they made an initial post with their story). You can go and read mine that way if you choose. Everyone is different, and mine is a WHusband, where I've read that WWives do have a lot of different characteristics. It was very helpful for me to read other poster's stories.
I'm still reading...and thinking... Here's what is on my mind today.
I think WW is setting a horrible example to our children. 1) having an affair is okay; 2) disrespecting one's husband by demanding to sleep in the same house that he is paying for is okay; 3) lying to people by passing yourself off as the happy housewife is okay; 4) Telling the children that "Church is good - you must go" and then not going (and confessing and repenting) yourself is okay; These are all good persuasion arguments I will use to get her to move out.
I would let her know that continuing her affair while living there is incredibly painful to you and the kids. It is a terrible example for the kids to see her running off to commit adultery. It is incredibly disrespectful for her to conduct her affair while living with you and the kids.
Here is what I plan to discuss in my counseling session tonight (I sent this email to the counselor):
======================================== I don't think that I have to recount the ways in which WW's behavior and actions are such horrible examples for our children. I don't think I have to recount how she is inflicting pain on me every day. And I can't help but believe that she is happy about what she is doing and fully aware of what she's doing. She is trying to "make me pay."
Therefore I am going to give her one last choice: 1) she can stop seeing that piece of crap and stay in the house and I will make as many compromises and cooperate as best I can to ensure a speedy and painless divorce with equal custody and everything; 2) same as number one except she continues to see that lowlife and moves out and we will arrange her plenty of visitation in the house until the MSA is done and signed and ordered.
If she chooses neither, and to continue on her daily attack on me and the children's well-being, then I will expose her affair to the homeschool community teachers and parents, to all of our neighbors, to all of her workplace associates, to all of the Sunday school teachers and members in the church that we know, to Sydney's swim team coaches, and to the parents of the swim team friends, and to the parents of all other friends of Sydney's and Deitrich's that come over to play. I will also begin a daily dialogue with the children discussing WW's behavior in a respectful and truthful way. I won't worry about their well-being, for as WW puts it, "The children will get counseling. They will be just fine."
Time for her to accept the consequences. The consequences will come sooner or later, and she can delay them and deal with them later by simply choosing 1) or 2).
This will be WW's choice. I hope that she chooses number one, but we know she won't do that. So then I prefer she chooses 2).
Sigh... Blackmailing her will only result in her going further underground. You are trying to make a "deal" with a practiced liar who is deep into an addiction. It achieves nothing. And all you do by keeping her secret for her is fuel the affair. As long as she has a small part of of her world where no one knows, she can continue to pretend while her fantasy thrives.
Threatening her is also forewarning her and by doing so you neutralize one of your most potent weapons. Forewarned is forearmed. Even the dumbest wayward can figure out a way to pre-empt you if she is forewarned. How hard would it be to tell the parents that you are a "jealous nut" who imagines every male friend is trying to get her in bed?
I am completely baffled about why you REFUSE to use one of your most potent weapons. What possible good reason is there?
You need to expose. You have been told this many times. Dr Harley would encourage you to expose. Why are you posting an email to your counselor when you should be exposing?
I can accomplish the same thing by telling WW that I've told everyone. She's not going to bother to verify - she's simply going to get more angry and think I'm more of a jerk. But none of your arguments for telling the group have convinced me. The TRUTH is that she is only going to do what she wants to do. A crack addict continues in their addiction until someone FORCES them to stop because there are laws that allow the authorities to take them in due to the harm they cause themselves and others. In this case of adultery, I cannot FORCE her to do anything, otherwise I will get slapped with assault or worse. There are no laws against two people having consensual sex.
Your analogy is broken. The behavior is addictive, yes, but the danger to kids is different. Tell me, how do you absolutely know that the teachers are not doing something in secret that you would find objectionable? Have you inquired ad nauseum just to make sure? But yet, you find them to be good teachers, yes? There are SOME things that you may never know, and that is why we have faith in an omniscient and omnipotent God, who is faithful and just and full of mercy. And at this point, I'm going to let all the effects of the other exposures manifest themselves.
Look - God is in control. Not me. Not WW. Not MarriageBuilders.
I am not quitting or giving up. I am going to love her as Christ loves the Church, ...that she would be holy and blameless.
Good luck with your plan. Dr Harley is very clear on the necessity of exposure. But if you know more than kudos to you You didn't finish the verse, Christ loved the Church giving up His life for it. Go hang yourself on a cross and become a self mad martyr for your marriage. Will that help your kids?
Do you think God wants you to fight for your marriage and kids or be a martyr?
your plan is likely doomed and a year from now you'll be talking to the same counselor wondering what happened
Yes, Markos, I have mentioned many times in the posts that I have the book and have read it.
There is the concept of the "secret fantasy" mentioned in the book. Part of that is that my WW has compartmentalized the whole secret. On all other fronts, she is the happy housewife with all of her ducks in a row.
That is why exposure is such a powerful weapon. It DECOMPARTMENTALIZES the secret.
Okay - I get it. No threats. No forewarning. Just do it. What am I afraid of? I'm afraid it won't do anything but throw her deeper into the affair (this is what is promised in "Surviving An Affair")- she's a very stubborn woman. All my friends are saying, "Don't be the angry spiteful loser husband. Wait it out and let the OM become the loser (in her mind).
I DO want her out of the house, though.
11 years and she seems like she has changed. I am losing faith/confidence that she considers anything good about our 11 years worth fighting for. Strike that - I have NO confidence.
My 7 yr-old boy, in the aftermath of me telling the children, said to me, "I pretty much don't think about it, Dad. I did ask Mommy this, though: 'Mommy, will um you ever sleep in the same bed as Daddy again?' (I had told them that Mommy is sleeping upstairs and I downstairs and that we aren't in the same bed anymore). And she told me, 'Never, never, never, ever, ever again will I sleep in the same bed with Daddy.'"
My 9-yr old daughter hasn't had any conversations with WW at all since then. They just do their thing - go shopping, go to play dates, etc.
I've heard one famous talk radio host (apparently persona non grata here?) say "Choose wisely, treat nicely" and the takeaway after some of this is, "Maybe I did not choose wisely. That relationship at the time of marriage was tenuous at best, and never got better."
I am still a relatively young-looking 45-year old with a 25-35 good years left in me.
I noticed that her counselor gave her a book called "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to stop being hurt". She is blaming this on my 'emotional abuse'. And perhaps there is some truth to it. And I think it is a good thing if she can work through that with a professional. But the problem is that that Loser OM has never abused her emotionally - he is her hero!
I noticed that her counselor gave her a book called "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to stop being hurt". She is blaming this on my 'emotional abuse'. And perhaps there is some truth to it. And I think it is a good thing if she can work through that with a professional. But the problem is that that Loser OM has never abused her emotionally - he is her hero!
You can sure bet he will abuse her emotionally when the affair is exposed to the light of day.
Okay - I get it. No threats. No forewarning. Just do it. What am I afraid of? I'm afraid it won't do anything but throw her deeper into the affair (this is what is promised in "Surviving An Affair")- she's a very stubborn woman. All my friends are saying, "Don't be the angry spiteful loser husband. Wait it out and let the OM become the loser (in her mind).
NO, it does not "throw her deeper into the affair" and SAA does not say that. She is ALREADY deep into the affair. She is not going to get any deeper. Exposure causes the affair to crumble because affairs thrive on secrecy. All you are doing is making it easier for her fantasy to thrive by keeping it secret in certain parts of her life. You allow her to keep up a charade.
WE have NEVER EVER told you to be an "angry, spiteful loser husband." We have told you to fight for your marriage and take strategic steps to end her affair. The affair has already gone on for 4 years, surely you can see it is not going to end all on its own? You do see this, right?
And yes, all wayward wives are stubborn. Nothing new there.
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11 years and she seems like she has changed. I am losing faith/confidence that she considers anything good about our 11 years worth fighting for. Strike that - I have NO confidence.
That is like saying that the crackhead has really "changed" since he started doing crack. Yes, we know your wife has changed. She is in the throes of an addictive affair.
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I noticed that her counselor gave her a book called "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to stop being hurt". She is blaming this on my 'emotional abuse'. And perhaps there is some truth to it. And I think it is a good thing if she can work through that with a professional. But the problem is that that Loser OM has never abused her emotionally - he is her hero!
The reason that ALMOST ALL wayward wives accuse their husbands of being "abusive" is becasue that is their defense. The "logic" goes something like this: "my husband was abusive therefore I am entitled to have an affair." That is so cute and winsome but not relevant to the issue at hand.
Your best chance at saving your marriage is to do a nuclear exposure. Leave them no place to hide. The longer you wait, the less effective it will be. You are up against a long term affair and can't afford to be cuttng corners and missing opportunities like this.
All my friends are saying, "Don't be the angry spiteful loser husband. Wait it out and let the OM become the loser (in her mind).
What does this mean? Do they think you will be a WINNER if you sit by idly and twiddle your thumbs while YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO BUST UP THE AFFAIR AND DIDN'T TAKE IT? That is real easy for your firends to say when IT IS NOT THEIR OX GETTING GORED. Ask them what you will do in 10 years when you are divorced because you took their silly, misguided conflict avoiding advice?
Are they going to be there to pick up the peices for you? No, it will be you - ALL ALONE. They won't have to live your regrets that you didn't act while you had the chance.
Okay - I get it. No threats. No forewarning. Just do it. What am I afraid of? I'm afraid it won't do anything but throw her deeper into the affair (this is what is promised in "Surviving An Affair")- she's a very stubborn woman. All my friends are saying, "Don't be the angry spiteful loser husband. Wait it out and let the OM become the loser (in her mind).
NO, it does not "throw her deeper into the affair" and SAA does not say that.
That's correct! I'm not sure what you read in SAA but you might need to reread more carefully.
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WE have NEVER EVER told you to be an "angry, spiteful loser husband."
That is correct! Dr. Harley is adamantly opposed to anger in marriage. He takes a very, very hardline stance against it. Dr. Harley classifies an angry outburst as temporary insanity and asks "is it beneficial for you to go temporarily insane sometimes in life?"
There is no "angry spiteful husband" plan being offered here. Just a calm unilateral action taken on the advice of an expert (Dr. Harley) who has been counseling and specializing in infidelity for decades.
(Hint: your wife won't do anything nice for you in exchange for you not exposing her affair. She won't be kinder in divorce. She won't be a better mother to the children. She won't come running back into your arms. Keeping her secret is of absolutely no benefit to you whatsoever. In fact it is of no benefit to her, either - all you do is allow her to continue to compartmentalize and deceive herself to allow the most destructive decision of her life to continue. That's terrible for you and her, and terrible for your children whether you divorce or not.)
So how do I tell the homeschool parents? Like, exactly what words do I use to keep them from thinking, "Wow. She is such a nice and competent teacher. He must be crazy to be telling us this. He doesn't even know us. Sounds like he's trying to stir up something."
Shall I say in an email something like: Dear ____ It is with sadness that I want to share some information that I believe you will want to make a decision on regarding your children's education here at ______ school program. My wife has been having an adulterous affair with another married man for four years and continues to do so while still wanting to live in the same house and continue teaching at __________ and hosting classes in our home. I confronted her with evidence nearly 4 weeks ago and she admitted it and said she wants a divorce. I have asked her to stop and to attend counseling with me to work it out for our own sake and for the benefit of our children, but she has said "No." I have an objection to the behavior, obviously, but your children are not mine, and you have a right to know and then determine for yourselves whether she is still a fit teacher and hostess for your child/children. I am fighting for my marriage and family and all we dreamed of 11 years ago, so I'm sure you can understand why I would contact you. Please ask her to do the right thing."
I cannot recall if there should be any appeal to the parents to ask her to the right thing or not.
About SAA para-phrasing: I apologize about "deeper in the affair" - I meant to say "deeper into his arms" I'm pretty sure that's what was promised. I don't have SAA handy right now.. But I think you know my point.
THEY (the friends and the counselor) are saying that my calm, unilateral action (even telling the kids on my own) is the "Anger" coming out and potentially harmful to the children.
That looks perfect to me, AR2. I would probably include an appeal to them to encourage her to do the right thing, especially if this is a religious homeschool group or somewhat close-knit group of friends.
About SAA para-phrasing: I apologize about "deeper in the affair" - I meant to say "deeper into his arms" I'm pretty sure that's what was promised. I don't have SAA handy right now.. But I think you know my point.
I'm pretty sure it says exactly the opposite. I'm pretty sure SAA argues against the point you are making.
Originally Posted by Dr. Harley, Surviving an Affair, revised
Many betrayed spouses are afraid that exposure will drive the unfaithful spouse further away. While it's true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict.
THEY (the friends and the counselor) are saying that my calm, unilateral action (even telling the kids on my own) is the "Anger" coming out and potentially harmful to the children.
They can say whatever the want. Everybody will make up their own opinion.
Dear ____ It is with sadness that I share some information that I believe you will want to make a decision on regarding your children's education here at ______ school program.
My wife has been having an adulterous affair with another married man, Joe Scumbag, for four years and continues to do so while living at home and teaching your children. I have asked her to end her affair with Joe and she refuses. My wife's affair has broken up one marriage and threatens to ruin ours. I am telling you this because I feel you have a right to know. I know I would want to know if it were my children. As such, I feel morally obligated to tell you so you can decide for yourself if your children continue their classes under her tutelage.
My children and I are devastated about this affair and ask for your prayers.
Sincere regards, Ar2kids
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About SAA para-phrasing: I apologize about "deeper in the affair" - I meant to say "deeper into his arms" I'm pretty sure that's what was promised. I don't have SAA handy right now.. But I think you know my point.
I am pretty sure you completely misunderstood. Dr Harley views exposure as therapeutic because it is ruinous for the affair.
THEY (the friends and the counselor) are saying that my calm, unilateral action (even telling the kids on my own) is the "Anger" coming out and potentially harmful to the children.
No, it's not. They are just making stuff up based on inexperienced personal opinion.
THEY (the friends and the counselor) are saying that my calm, unilateral action (even telling the kids on my own) is the "Anger" coming out and potentially harmful to the children.
If you give antibiotics to a sick person is it your "anger coming out and potentially harming the children?" The above comment is just nonsense.
THEY (the friends and the counselor) are saying that my calm, unilateral action (even telling the kids on my own) is the "Anger" coming out and potentially harmful to the children.
If you give antibiotics to a sick person is it your "anger coming out and potentially harming the children?" The above comment is just nonsense.
FACEBOOK or email exposure letter to family and friends of YOUR WS - this was written by board member, Underdog:
Dear friends and family,
I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a old boyfriend named xxxxx xxxxx who resides in xxxxxx. He is also married and has young children . The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.
She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.
As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.
I am pretty sure you completely misunderstood. Dr Harley views exposure as therapeutic because it is ruinous for the affair.
And when she is out of her fog and your marriage is in recovery, she will agree. There is something very healing for the wayward in having had everything brought out into the light.
Here is what I plan to discuss in my counseling session tonight (I sent this email to the counselor):
======================================== I don't think that I have to recount the ways in which WW's behavior and actions are such horrible examples for our children. I don't think I have to recount how she is inflicting pain on me every day. And I can't help but believe that she is happy about what she is doing and fully aware of what she's doing. She is trying to "make me pay."
Therefore I am going to give her one last choice: 1) she can stop seeing that piece of crap and stay in the house and I will make as many compromises and cooperate as best I can to ensure a speedy and painless divorce with equal custody and everything; 2) same as number one except she continues to see that lowlife and moves out and we will arrange her plenty of visitation in the house until the MSA is done and signed and ordered.
If she chooses neither, and to continue on her daily attack on me and the children's well-being, then I will expose her affair to the homeschool community teachers and parents, to all of our neighbors, to all of her workplace associates, to all of the Sunday school teachers and members in the church that we know, to Sydney's swim team coaches, and to the parents of the swim team friends, and to the parents of all other friends of Sydney's and Deitrich's that come over to play. I will also begin a daily dialogue with the children discussing WW's behavior in a respectful and truthful way. I won't worry about their well-being, for as WW puts it, "The children will get counseling. They will be just fine."
Time for her to accept the consequences. The consequences will come sooner or later, and she can delay them and deal with them later by simply choosing 1) or 2).
This will be WW's choice. I hope that she chooses number one, but we know she won't do that. So then I prefer she chooses 2).
================================
Exposure.
Threatening with exposure never works. It also makes the BH look weak because it makes it look as if he is afraid to expose WW.
Why do you NOT act? Threats of exposure never work, and will probably backfire on you. It will give her the chance to go to all those people and spin a story against you, pre-empting anything you hoped to do. Waywards would never agree to your 1 or 2 option, so why even propose it. It is controlling her, and that is what she abhors. If you think there is such a thing as an amiacble divorce, you are not thinking clearly. That is one in a million.
It appears that you are resigned to divorce, and that is ok. If that is where you are headed in your mind, then lawyer up and do it right. If you want to fight for your marriage, then follow the path and do it right, no shortcuts, you are not a special exception.
Maybe we can back up a bit... Exposure: At what point is it enough? I suggested that the logical end is to broadcast it to the world via internet, neighborhood internet communities, so that EVERYONE will know she is cheating at this time.
But we know that there is something wrong with that - it becomes idle gossip for the people that don't know and don't care.
So where is enough?? I suggest that you can categorize people you know into 3 groups. 1) Close, trusted, friends; 2)Acquaintances (people that you are friendly with, and occasionally chat with at get-togethers, but don't do any socializing with, maybe you do things together as obligated parents of children on the same sports team but never anywhere else....these are often 'friends of friends'); and 3)People who know who you are and you know who they are but the most you do is say 'Hi' if you're physically near enough).
To put it differently, if you were in the mall and eating dinner at the food court, people in category 1 would come around and sit down and dine with you and you would talk. People in category 2 might wave and smile. People in category 3 would probably just act like they didn't see you and keep walking.
So...Category 1 seems to be the group that would have any chance of influencing a WW (in whatever way) out of the affair. Category 2 could have an effect as well, only I would say it is diminished because many would say "None of my beeswax; he is probably just mad about something or possibly deserves it" They just are not invested enough. Category 3 is just gossip fodder; those people won't want consider it any of their business and may also wonder "I wonder what his axe to grind is..."
The fact is I HAVE exposed to 98% of Category 1. BOTH WW and OM sides. And about 30% of Category 2.
If you won't listen to the forum then I suggest you email Dr Harley. He will tell you the same advice. Homeschool group exposure would put more pressure on ww to end the affair. I guarantee that she WILL tell family and friends that you are an abusive husband.
Maybe we can back up a bit... Exposure: At what point is it enough? I suggested that the logical end is to broadcast it to the world via internet, neighborhood internet communities, so that EVERYONE will know she is cheating at this time.
But we know that there is something wrong with that - it becomes idle gossip for the people that don't know and don't care.
I don't really understand the point of this post. It's not a good idea to try and "categorize" because each and every cast of characters is different. [believe me, I have tried] The goal is to expose to anyone who might have an influence on killing the affair. We had suggested that you expose to the parents of her students since they are interested parties. Most parents would want to know if their child was being taught by an active and unrepentant adulterer. Having them know could put pressure on her affair when those parents address this with her.
We have not told you to expose on the internet to "strangers," but if that were effective, I would not hesitate to recommend it because exposure is so therapeutic. The more people who know about her affair, the more people to hold her accountable. The more public her affair, the harder it will be for her to conduct it.
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So...Category 1 seems to be the group that would have any chance of influencing a WW (in whatever way) out of the affair. Category 2 could have an effect as well, only I would say it is diminished because many would say "None of my beeswax; he is probably just mad about something or possibly deserves it"
We have even the CLOSEST family members say that. So what? You are not exposing because you have some imagined guarantee of a specific reaction. You have no control over the reactions of others, nor can you predict what that reaction might have been. The purpose is not to seek the approval of crapwits. It is a strategic mistake to imagine you can predict the effect of any exposure. And many, many people will say you are probably mad about something and deserve it. None of this is relevant.
I am sorry that you view exposure as a negative action, that greatly hampers your ability to kill the affair. But I feel satisfied that I have given it my best shot here. I wish you the best.
If I were part of a group of parents who wanted the best for my children.....and I was told one of the other people in the group's marriage was quite tenuous, that there was drama going on in the family......I would distance my child from that person. I would at the least be very on guard around them.
Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you want to know any huge emotional mess your own kids were at any level exposed to?
OM has been completely exposed. It is not a workplace affair, and I have never been to his work, so that seems impossible to me to attack his wallet.
You're right MelodyLane - You have done your best. I do believe there is a 'final frontier' for exposure (the homeschool group and about 3 or 4 other people), and I should do it.
I will pray for strength and wisdom to deal with whatever after-effects there are. You guys are much more versed, and I wish I knew more.
By the way, the counselor let the cat out of the bag regarding my previous email to her that contained the 'threat'. After hearing your argument, "Don't threaten, just expose" I had changed my mind, but forgot to email/tell counselor that I changed my mind. But in the office, the counselor revealed my plan to the WW and strongly urged WW to stop seeing him or move out. WW said, "I can't promise that right now - I'd have to think about it." Counselor said, "AR - can you give her more time?" and I said, "I can give her one week".
I have about 1% confidence that WW will be moved out or decide to stop seeing him. In fact, yesterday she moved into the children's bathroom and moved many of her clothes into the upstairs room, thinking if she just stays out of my sight, everything will be better. (I kept saying that the example she is setting is an attack on our kids and family values and extremely offensive to me, who has been paying for 100% of our living expenses).
So now I want to wait one more week and fast and pray.
You're right MelodyLane - You have done your best. I do believe there is a 'final frontier' for exposure (the homeschool group and about 3 or 4 other people), and I should do it.
I think that is the best decision. Your wife's fantasy is deeply entrenched and her position in the homeschooling is her last bubble of safety. While it may not end the affair immediately, it will leave her no place to hide.
Does this mean you will exposing the affair to the homeschool parents today?
And I agree it is a waste of time to wait a week for something that will never happen. She is not moving. All she achieved was getting you off her back for a week so she can carry on her affair in peace. It is poor role modeling for your children to witness her carrying on her affair and you tolerating it. It is a mistake to let her ride for a week, IMO. You should keep the heat on.
OM has been completely exposed. It is not a workplace affair, and I have never been to his work, so that seems impossible to me to attack his wallet.
However even people who lead a sleazy life outside of work, will try to maintain a clean image at the workplace. I would find his co-workers, professional associates, company owners, etc and expose to them.
Its not even that these people will care, some likely will, but that OM will feel uncertain about how their opinion has changed about him, and this will cause OM some fear about reduced prospects for promotion or retention.
Get a lawyer lined up. ESPECIALLY, since you are convinced divorce is inevitable. It is the first piece of advice i was given, and the one piece of advice i wish i would have listened to. How do you know she hasn't sought legal advice herself? You are going to be painted as a crazy, abusive husband. WW are crazy people (no offense ladies). You think she won't demand everything in your life and pull every dirty trick in the book, then you are in denial my friend.
You let her manipulate you again and give her time. She got you off her back for a week.
Honestly, I am all about exposure but I don't see the point of exposure in the workplace if this is not a workplace affair. Maybe if he was a pastor, therapist or teacher. This poster is already overwhelmed at the prospect of exposing to the homeschool parents and I don't want to overwhelm him anymore than necessary.
Except that in this case he has kids he would like to keep away from an OM who could abuse or harm them. This OM is killing his family there has to be consequences. It's not about getting his wife back it's about keeping OM away.
We all know how much more likely it is that an OM or step parent will abuse non-biological children.
Except that in this case he has kids he would like to keep away from an OM who could abuse or harm them. This OM is killing his family there has to be consequences. It's not about getting his wife back it's about keeping OM away.
We all know how much more likely it is that an OM or step parent will abuse non-biological children.
God Bless Gamma
Except that that has nothing to do with the workplace.
Except that in this case he has kids he would like to keep away from an OM who could abuse or harm them. This OM is killing his family there has to be consequences. It's not about getting his wife back it's about keeping OM away.
We all know how much more likely it is that an OM or step parent will abuse non-biological children.
God Bless Gamma
Except that that has nothing to do with the workplace.
Dr. Harley is very clear on this.
If this isn't a workplace affair (which it isn't) then no workplace exposure is to be done.
Not only that, but this guy works at a large company (over 10,000 employees) and at least 2,000 are on a 6-building campus. I don't have the time to search out people. I still have a job, you know!!
And the OM is on business travel this week anyway, so all he and WW do is text each other about 20-30 times a day and have a few phone conversations. (I know because I can see the daily phone records). And to her the prospect of stop seeing him does not mean EVERYTHING cold turkey. She still would presume to be texting and emailing and calling.
I have seen two Christian lawyers and they both said, "Go through a mediator if she isn't going to try to kill you". And the fact is, she is not going to try to destroy me. She is already in agreement that with a divorce it will be 50/50 split in assets and custody. So no - no expensive lawyers. California is a no-fault divorce state. The judge won't care who cheated on who.
Except that in this case he has kids he would like to keep away from an OM who could abuse or harm them. This OM is killing his family there has to be consequences. It's not about getting his wife back it's about keeping OM away.
We all know how much more likely it is that an OM or step parent will abuse non-biological children.
God Bless Gamma
Exposure at the workplace is unnecessary in this case. It is not a workplace affair.
I have seen two Christian lawyers and they both said, "Go through a mediator if she isn't going to try to kill you". And the fact is, she is not going to try to destroy me. ....
I suppose hiring Androcles is one way to go. Did you spend your youth pulling thorns from the paws of divorce lawyers?
She's not going to try to destroy you. She is destroying you right now.
And the OM is on business travel this week anyway, so all he and WW do is text each other about 20-30 times a day and have a few phone conversations. (I know because I can see the daily phone records).
Are they calling/texting during business hours? Is he using business phone?
And the OM is on business travel this week anyway, so all he and WW do is text each other about 20-30 times a day and have a few phone conversations. (I know because I can see the daily phone records). And to her the prospect of stop seeing him does not mean EVERYTHING cold turkey. She still would presume to be texting and emailing and calling.
I have seen two Christian lawyers and they both said, "Go through a mediator if she isn't going to try to kill you". And the fact is, she is not going to try to destroy me. She is already in agreement that with a divorce it will be 50/50 split in assets and custody. So no - no expensive lawyers. California is a no-fault divorce state. The judge won't care who cheated on who.
In fact, yesterday she moved into the children's bathroom and moved many of her clothes into the upstairs room, thinking if she just stays out of my sight, everything will be better.
She didn't move into the children's bathroom (??? She moved into the bathroom?? Is there a bed in there?) and she didn't move her clothes out of your bedroom to 'stay out of your sight' so 'everything would be better'. She moved out of your bedroom so she could declare to her OM that the two of you are "officially separated". Of course, you're not. You're still very much married. But WS's like to move out of the marital bedroom and declare themselves "separated".
Expose to the parents of the children who are being taught by your wife. They need to know your family is in a crisis so they can choose whether their children are in the line of fire (around someone who is clearly not family oriented right now).
I agree with MelodyLane not to bother with OM's workplace.
I also think, perhaps you should cancel your cell phone plans for the family (though you can see WW's calls.......she would need to find a way to contact him other than constant texting).
Heck....maybe sell the car she drives, etc so it is more difficult for her to go on dates with him.
How IS she seeing him? Is she a stay at home mom? Who is with the kids when she is on dates?
And the OM is on business travel this week anyway, so all he and WW do is text each other about 20-30 times a day and have a few phone conversations. (I know because I can see the daily phone records). And to her the prospect of stop seeing him does not mean EVERYTHING cold turkey. She still would presume to be texting and emailing and calling.
I have seen two Christian lawyers and they both said, "Go through a mediator if she isn't going to try to kill you". And the fact is, she is not going to try to destroy me. She is already in agreement that with a divorce it will be 50/50 split in assets and custody. So no - no expensive lawyers. California is a no-fault divorce state. The judge won't care who cheated on who.
Did you expose to the Homeschool parents yet?
I don't think he has. While his wife is texting OM all day and night he is still sitting on his hands
If you think she's such a good parent and teacher and that her choices have no impact on what/how she guides them let me tell you something I found on my voice recorder. This is verbatim what WW said to MIL one day:
"I know you and grandma aren't happy about my choices. I hope one day you can forgive me. I also hope that one day my daughter has the strength to make the same decisions I have if she's in the same situation."
Get mad, do the Exposure and get it done. If not you risk the future of each one of those innocent babies. While you can't choose to teach another person's child, their parents deserve to have a choice in whether they want your wife spouting wayward rhetoric at some point in the future.
Correct me if I'm wrong: As long as WW is seeing OM, there is no benefit or point in trying to meet her needs (although there is still the chance that I can make more withdrawals from her love bank). So therefore, there is no need to "try" Plan A.
I WANT to do Plan B, but she won't move out and so I'm convinced that I will expose. I only got the email list last night at about 3am, when I snooped into her PC to get it. This is not MY homeschool organization. It is WW and Neighbor that put it together and coordinated it. My kids belong to it, but I have never had the mailing list and I don't know 70% of the parents. I WORK during the day when they have classes. (But they will know me soon!)
Last night, WW and Neighbor went out at Neighbor's request. Don't know how it went, but Neighbor was going to "talk" to WW to convince her to do the right thing. Neighbor, obviously, is hurt and betrayed, too, and has known since the beginning; she's the one that gave me Harley's book SAA. Of course that edition didn't have anything about Exposure. And Neighbor is a busy mom with 5 children and focused on praying for us and not allowing herself to getting too involved. So don't start blaming her. Perhaps she convinced WW to tell the whole community. Perhaps she told WW that the community will find out this week. I don't know. When I do, that's when I will make up my mind HOW to expose to community. And I WILL feel good about it.
Correct me if I'm wrong: As long as WW is seeing OM, there is no benefit or point in trying to meet her needs (although there is still the chance that I can make more withdrawals from her love bank). So therefore, there is no need to "try" Plan A.
I WANT to do Plan B, but she won't move out and so I'm convinced that I will expose. I only got the email list last night at about 3am, when I snooped into her PC to get it. This is not MY homeschool organization. It is WW and Neighbor that put it together and coordinated it. My kids belong to it, but I have never had the mailing list and I don't know 70% of the parents. I WORK during the day when they have classes. (But they will know me soon!)
Good man!!
The plan you should be in is Plan A. While she won't allow you to meet her needs while her lovebank is closed to you, it is a good idea to TRY. You should let her know that if she will end her affair, you would be willing to meet her needs and do everything to create a happy, romantic marriage.
One of the best descriptions of Plan A comes from Pepperband's "CArrot and Stick of Plan A," however, Dr Harley has stated on the radio show that while he likes the elements, he doesn't want anyone to wrongly interpret C&A as "reward and punishment." [And Pepperband did not mean it that way either] So I am posting this with the qualifier that Plan A is not punishment:
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The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
The carrot of Plan A
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
Plan B is really not warranted at all. You can cause more trouble in the affair by staying in Plan A and competing with that RAT OM. The odds are GREATLY in your favor, btw.
I homeschooled my children as well. There is NO WAY I would want an adulterer presenting herself to my children as a role model. Do the other homeschooling parents a favor and protect their families and children from your WW.
I know this was hard but you did the right thing.
In addition to our own homeschooled children, my wife teaches children from two other families one day a week, and I assure you I would tell those two families immediately if she was having an affair! (She'd do the same about me.)
No one could have put it better.
