My story started out on our family vacation. My wife had been texting and emailing more so than any time before, having her phone with her at all times. Takes the phone into the bathroom, takes the phone to get the mail, virtually everywhere. I had a suspicion something was going on but what a minute I knew my wive we hadn't had any heavy duty difficulties. Her facebook post on our anniversary mentioned how we had never been more in love after 12 years, complete with wedding photos, smiley's and heart emocons. That was only 3 months ago and nothing since had changed as far as I could see. We always enjoyed each others company and while we rarely went out, just the two of us it was pretty typical. The texting was even more so the last couple days and the drive home. I began to notice she would hold the phone in a manner so that I could not see it. She claimed she was communicating with her friend who had recently divorced and was discussing a lot of personal stuff. During our drive the kids had fallen asleep and told her. I knew something was going on and why was she trying to hide it. I knew she was hiding something. She looked at me straight faced and said you have nothing to worry about. Made sense to me. She never lied to me before and never once gave me a reason to believe otherwise. Just a bunch of texting i thought. The day we got home she was going to meet her friend at a bar nearby to talk. Once she left i got her ipad out and started to browse the text. nothing unusual, other than my guilt for invading her privacy as I hadn't found anything. Then I checked her email accounts and my entire world shattered. My heart rate was immeasurable, I couldn't think straight, I started pacing saying, oh my god what did you do, how could you do this? I read these emails which were the quintessential love letters. I love you, I need you, I am so glad we figured this out. I spent some time reading them even though I thought my heart was going to explode. I forwarded all of them, maybe 18 or so to my email. I texted her saying I knew about it, she responded knew about what? I simply texted his name and she responds, on my way home. We went through a lot that evening. Although to this day what may have hurt me the most was she cold and unemotional about it. She said she was sorry but not the kind of sorry you would expect. While I was a blubbering mess she was calm and collected. Neither of us raised our voices that night. I was more afraid than angry. I had met this guy at other work functions and could tell he had a thing for my wife. After reviewing all the emails it was pretty clear this had just started and they hadn't had any intimate contact other than some "cuddling" in a hotel room while traveling together on business. The emails indicated pretty clearly they hadn't yet had sex. They had phone conversations and emails for the past 5 weeks and a couple group dates to another bar, not in our neighborhood with other co workers. He is the business director of their company and only one other employee knew about it, a friend of hers. There are thousands of more details but she made me promise that night that she would end it. No more communication out side of work and they would never travel together. She broke the first promise after 2 days, having a 42 minute phone call while my daughter was at gymnastics. I was skeptical but understanding. This was the love of my life. I was willing to drop my pride and dignity if I thought that would give us a chance. I found out, confronted her and said no more. 2 weeks goes by and now I have been monitoring everything I could get me hands on. text, phone history, emails, browser history, everything. Except gps tracking. Thank you iphone, you made that easy. I started just checking icloud, find my iphone app occasionally to see if she was where she said she would be. On that Saturday she was going to the grocery store. I tracked her, the store was within 2.5 mile of her office. Then it happened, she turned in the direction of work and proceeded that direction. By the time I called her she was almost there. A few hundred yards away from the office. I asked her to stop, stop what she said. I said I knew she was going to the office and he would be the only one there. Was she really going to break her promise again? She denied everything swearing she was in the parking lot of the grocery store. I told her that i was tracking her and that I knew she was lying. She still denied it. I said hang up, take a picture of where you are right now and text it to me. I watched as she turned her car around and headed back towards the grocery store. No text yet 3 minutes later. I called her again and said please stop lying. I can see exactly where you are and I know why you were going there. She admitted it and finally broke down. I knew my wife, she was a good person, still is in fact. She made a mistake. I promised I wouldn't define her or our lives together by one mistake, regardless of how big it was. Having her breakdown like that was a big step. After nearly three weeks she finally faced up to what she had done and she hated herself for it. She did still love me, she had just thought she had loved him too. I kinda understood the best I could. It was exciting and new and she essentially got to be someone else once in a while, she wasn't my wife with two kids 9 and 11 she was just a woman who this man found attractive and told her things that I still told her but seemed to familiar and although all the "I love you's" and the "you look beautiful's" were audible they were no longer heard. Changing her course that day truly changed her heart. After a month of cautious optimism and few more tears and maybe a foolish trust based on nothing more than my confidence in her to do the right thing. We are in a place in our marriage I never thought we would be again. I have lost 30 pounds and quit smoking. We have sex everyday now and I am 44 years old, but getting more buff everyday. She has a renewed interest in me and I in her. When we do go out which we make a point to once a week without the kids, I feel like I am getting ready for a date. we are on the right track. I still feel some of the pain and the picture I painted in my mind of her with him have not gone away they are fading. I am no longer obsessed with tracking her or viewing her emails although the habit is hard to break. My brain and my heart don't always see eye to eye. I haven't found any trace of evidence that she has kept her word this third time. I am more happy now than i have been in years and I can see it it her as well. A naughty text here or there from her is something new and nothing I would have every thought she would do, although she does have the body for it. She does these thing and I just know. She would never risk this again.
I haven't read the books and while I tried to get in with a counselor for myself and for both of us I have read a lot of things. Some of which was completely the opposite of what I did do. Like deleting all of the emails, every stitch of evidence. Hanging on to it was not moving forward in my opinion. I walked out on a limb for my marriage. She could have cut it off at any time. I would have felt like a fool again and had no place to turn. But I did these things because I knew my wife as well as myself and knew this was the right thing to do for us. I think emotional infidelity is just as damaging for me. In fact I wished it had been some meaningless one night stand. It would be easier for me to accept than having her give her heart to another man even it were just a few weeks. It broke me to the core. She never asked me to make the changes I have. I did them because these were things I thought I should do for myself. I had the motivation, I was completely broken, so withdrawal or any diet anxiety would be a cake walk compared to what I was going through at the time I started. We're on track and I hope somebody out there reads this and knows that even when all may seem lost. Giving your self completely to someone sometimes pays off. It wouldn't work for every couple but in our case it was exactly what I needed to do for our marriage. If you stick your neck enough times people might get tired of slapping your head.
Good luck
Welcome.
It sounds like it has been three months since this has been buried under the rug. Are you interested in using the MB program to affair-proof your marriage?
Your marriage CANNOT recover until she no longer works with him. Your story truly does read like the typical false recovery, I implore you to not bury your head in the sand.
Good Luck to you too.
Please keep posting updates. One month is not long enough, yet it "May" be a good start.
I haven't read, in viewing thousands of posted threads, any cases where reconciliation lasted in a case described as your situation has unfolded.
But, i have seen too many to count that believed and loved their spouse so deeply, that they continued to be blinded by the secret second life being put on a temporary iatus or go deeper underground.
If and/or when you need help, the collective knowledge on this forum can assist you if you desire.
LTL
My story started out on our family vacation. My wife had been texting and emailing more so than any time before, having her phone with her at all times. Takes the phone into the bathroom, takes the phone to get the mail, virtually everywhere. I had a suspicion something was going on but what a minute I knew my wive we hadn't had any heavy duty difficulties.
Her facebook post on our anniversary mentioned how we had never been more in love after 12 years, complete with wedding photos, smiley's and heart emocons. That was only 3 months ago and nothing since had changed as far as I could see. We always enjoyed each others company and while we rarely went out, just the two of us it was pretty typical.
The texting was even more so the last couple days and the drive home. I began to notice she would hold the phone in a manner so that I could not see it. She claimed she was communicating with her friend who had recently divorced and was discussing a lot of personal stuff.
During our drive the kids had fallen asleep and told her. I knew something was going on and why was she trying to hide it. I knew she was hiding something. She looked at me straight faced and said you have nothing to worry about. Made sense to me. She never lied to me before and never once gave me a reason to believe otherwise. Just a bunch of texting i thought. The day we got home she was going to meet her friend at a bar nearby to talk.
Once she left i got her ipad out and started to browse the text. nothing unusual, other than my guilt for invading her privacy as I hadn't found anything. Then I checked her email accounts and my entire world shattered. My heart rate was immeasurable, I couldn't think straight, I started pacing saying, oh my god what did you do, how could you do this? I read these emails which were the quintessential love letters.
I love you, I need you, I am so glad we figured this out. I spent some time reading them even though I thought my heart was going to explode. I forwarded all of them, maybe 18 or so to my email. I texted her saying I knew about it, she responded knew about what? I simply texted his name and she responds, on my way home. We went through a lot that evening. Although to this day what may have hurt me the most was she cold and unemotional about it. She said she was sorry but not the kind of sorry you would expect.
While I was a blubbering mess she was calm and collected. Neither of us raised our voices that night. I was more afraid than angry. I had met this guy at other work functions and could tell he had a thing for my wife. After reviewing all the emails it was pretty clear this had just started and they hadn't had any intimate contact other than some "cuddling" in a hotel room while traveling together on business. The emails indicated pretty clearly they hadn't yet had sex.
They had phone conversations and emails for the past 5 weeks and a couple group dates to another bar, not in our neighborhood with other co workers. He is the business director of their company and only one other employee knew about it, a friend of hers. There are thousands of more details but she made me promise that night that she would end it. No more communication out side of work and they would never travel together.
She broke the first promise after 2 days, having a 42 minute phone call while my daughter was at gymnastics. I was skeptical but understanding. This was the love of my life. I was willing to drop my pride and dignity if I thought that would give us a chance. I found out, confronted her and said no more. 2 weeks goes by and now I have been monitoring everything I could get me hands on. text, phone history, emails, browser history, everything.
Except gps tracking. Thank you iphone, you made that easy. I started just checking icloud, find my iphone app occasionally to see if she was where she said she would be. On that Saturday she was going to the grocery store. I tracked her, the store was within 2.5 mile of her office. Then it happened, she turned in the direction of work and proceeded that direction. By the time I called her she was almost there. A few hundred yards away from the office. I asked her to stop, stop what she said.
I said I knew she was going to the office and he would be the only one there. Was she really going to break her promise again? She denied everything swearing she was in the parking lot of the grocery store. I told her that i was tracking her and that I knew she was lying. She still denied it. I said hang up, take a picture of where you are right now and text it to me. I watched as she turned her car around and headed back towards the grocery store. No text yet 3 minutes later.
I called her again and said please stop lying. I can see exactly where you are and I know why you were going there. She admitted it and finally broke down. I knew my wife, she was a good person, still is in fact. She made a mistake. I promised I wouldn't define her or our lives together by one mistake, regardless of how big it was. Having her breakdown like that was a big step.
After nearly three weeks she finally faced up to what she had done and she hated herself for it. She did still love me, she had just thought she had loved him too. I kinda understood the best I could. It was exciting and new and she essentially got to be someone else once in a while, she wasn't my wife with two kids 9 and 11 she was just a woman who this man found attractive and told her things that I still told her but seemed to familiar and although all the "I love you's" and the "you look beautiful's" were audible they were no longer heard. Changing her course that day truly changed her heart.
After a month of cautious optimism and few more tears and maybe a foolish trust based on nothing more than my confidence in her to do the right thing. We are in a place in our marriage I never thought we would be again. I have lost 30 pounds and quit smoking. We have sex everyday now and I am 44 years old, but getting more buff everyday. She has a renewed interest in me and I in her. When we do go out which we make a point to once a week without the kids, I feel like I am getting ready for a date. we are on the right track. I still feel some of the pain and the picture I painted in my mind of her with him have not gone away they are fading.
I am no longer obsessed with tracking her or viewing her emails although the habit is hard to break. My brain and my heart don't always see eye to eye. I haven't found any trace of evidence that she has kept her word this third time. I am more happy now than i have been in years and I can see it it her as well. A naughty text here or there from her is something new and nothing I would have every thought she would do, although she does have the body for it. She does these thing and I just know. She would never risk this again.
I haven't read the books and while I tried to get in with a counselor for myself and for both of us I have read a lot of things. Some of which was completely the opposite of what I did do. Like deleting all of the emails, every stitch of evidence. Hanging on to it was not moving forward in my opinion. I walked out on a limb for my marriage. She could have cut it off at any time. I would have felt like a fool again and had no place to turn. But I did these things because I knew my wife as well as myself and knew this was the right thing to do for us. I think emotional infidelity is just as damaging for me. In fact I wished it had been some meaningless one night stand. It would be easier for me to accept than having her give her heart to another man even it were just a few weeks. It broke me to the core. She never asked me to make the changes I have. I did them because these were things I thought I should do for myself. I had the motivation, I was completely broken, so withdrawal or any diet anxiety would be a cake walk compared to what I was going through at the time I started. We're on track and I hope somebody out there reads this and knows that even when all may seem lost. Giving your self completely to someone sometimes pays off. It wouldn't work for every couple but in our case it was exactly what I needed to do for our marriage. If you stick your neck enough times people might get tired of slapping your head.
Good luck
broken down for easier reading.
Does she still work with this OM?
Please read.
Start Here First-Welcome Aboard
Everyone is different. You know your situation. Any type of affair is devastating.
You love your wife. You know your wife. If you are truly comfortable, if your children are safe and healthy that is all that matters. Stay and fight for your marriage.
I cheated on my husband. I repented, he forgave me. Forgiveness is a choice we made. It is a choice we make everyday. We choose each other everyday. The pain I caused is enormous. We start everyday in prayer for strength to fight the attacks of the devil. We make a conscious decision to focus on our love for each other and fortifying that love. It is a day to day struggle. There is hope in CHRIST for any and every situation. Certain songs make us cry. Driving by the church where we were married is heart wrenching. Going inside is not yet possible. I refuse to have contact with "the other" although I do pray for him. When I ended things I apologized to him for causing him pain. I accept full responsibility for my actions and regret them completely. Although I had reasons there was no excuse. I never stopped loving my husband it is that love that forced me to stop the affair and tell him about it. The most painful talk of my life.
Please take things day by day recovery is possible if you both want it truly.
Be honest with yourself.
Do not stay for selfish reasons. This is not just about you. Look at the big picture.
Live in the moment. Build toward the future. Do not dwell on the past it is gone.
One day your spouse will be dead you must decide if this one mistake will be the defining point of her presence in your life. Is this one horrible event worth trashing all of the wonderful events you have shared. How will your choice today impact your grandchildren.
I will forever regret what I have done to my life and praise my husband daily for redeeming me, giving me a second chance, and showing me the love of Christ when I deserved it the least.
ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Everyone is in need of forgiveness at some point in life. Be blessed.
repentant_heart,
Since you already made it clear that you do not wish to do any of the steps in the MB program, I would recommend that you allow other posters to help this person with MB advice.
There are dozens of "post your own opinion" sites on the internet, I believe this poster would benefit from a proven recovery program, and not misdirected advice from others with no experience except their own adultery.
**edit**
moderator's note: please familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders concepts before you post. The purpose of our forum is to help posters with MB concepts, not to share personal philosophies. It you have any questions, please email me. Thank you.
repentant_heart,
Your posts about your own situation have made it quite clear that you have not followed the basic steps of Dr. Harley's Affair Recovery program.
You do not need to lecture me about being "in pain", I am not a wayward spouse nor am I a betrayed spouse, but I am well aware of Dr. Harley's program and I am here to advise the original poster to follow Dr. Harley's steps.
The only "bad advertisement" here is someone who is promoting their own personal philosophy instead of the MB program, which is the whole point of this. That is rather self-indulgent and not what this poster needs right now.
Posters: Please familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders concepts before advising people in crisis.
With all due respect, people on this forum have been Successfully following the Mb principals and Dr Harley's methods of marriage building for over 10 years, you have been in your own recovery just one month yet you believe you have all the answers and have solved your marital issues.
I personally rather follow the teachings and methods of a successful professional psychologist who has been proving his methods for over 20 years and had the numbers of saved marriages under his belt.
Come back in a decade or so and let us know how it's working out for you in the meantime I'll keep up following statistically proven methods to improve and enrich my marriage.
And when it comes to affairs every situation is the same, a Ws follows a script I have seen over and over again and a BS is hurt so deeply it nearly kills them no other details around the situation changes the basic facts so no I don't agree we are all different if we were the methods here wouldn't work as well as they do.
Good luck to you and your family.
I think the moral that gets missed in these type of things is that every scenario is different, the people involved are different. While i have read much of what has been discussed in this forum. I found that personal insight has as much to do with healing as any regurgitated check list. While I agree much of what is being heralded as the necessary steps in recovery cannot simply be plugged into every possible scenario.
I read many post on here prior to my first post and I may have done it to just write down somewhere. Someone mentioned the term false recovery. Not all recoveries are false and regardless of amount of time it is possible to recover. I still struggle with images and thoughts of them being together. The words of those emails still trickle through my mind. But I have personally heard the things I needed to hear to forgive.
Don't bash me as not conforming to the Harley method, I know very little about it. I started here as a means to better understand it. By the time I finally decided to post I felt like things were going in the direction I could have only hoped several weeks ago. I know my wife better than anyone on this planet and while I was surprised by her actions I understood them. Complacency in a marriage is more about when than if. Especially with children, the investment we make in our children's lives many times over shadow our own. Gymnastics, Karate, piano and school work to name a few. It was all too easy to become happy roommates caring for these little people we both cared so much about.
I believe my wife was left unfulfilled in a several ways. As we became more and more comfortable with each other she was losing weight and I was finding it. I became uncomfortable with her even wanting to have sex. I knew what she looked like and what I looked like and I knew ultimately it wasn't going in good direction. I tried to lose weight in the past but was never fully dedicated to it. The days following when I found out about what was happening I decide to quit smoking and wasn't going to gain weight doing it. I used the e cigarettes and found them to be sufficient. After 2 weeks I had not smoked and lost 13 pounds. I started running every morning. My renewed lung capacity was apparent and while I wasn't a picture of health I could run a mile in under 10 minutes. I have since lost a total of 3o pound as of this morning, I haven't smoked in 6 weeks and I am feeling better about myself. I help out more around the house, with the kids and over all have taken a new lease on our marriage. She never blamed me, but I did blame myself. I didn't push her across that line, she did that. But I walked her right up to it. I know she hadn't had sex with him. I am grateful I found out when i did because I doubt that action wasn't far off. I knew she felt like she wasn't cheating because she hadn't had sex with him. In the week before I found out I started getting more and more interested in sex. 5 times while on vacation. Then I found out and had a few days off. Ever since it has been at least once a day with maybe one or 2 days off after heavy discussions neither of us were in the mood. It may sound strange but sex alone may have had a huge impact on both of us. It gave us a release and all the stress goes away even if for just a few minutes.
I used this traumatic experience to better myself. Knowing I wasn't going to hurt any more than I already had, exercise and eating properly while quiting smoking would be easy in comparison. I was right. That was something I am sure many people would have disagreed with saying things like don't make huge changes now, let the events settle in and stuff like that.
I am posting my story because while statistically the steps here may be vastly beneficial to many. I think it is important that others going through the same thing know that the people involved and the their stories are unique and may not fit the mold of every program. I know our story isn't over, but I know my marriage isn't over either. I will probably struggle with several things for weeks, month and maybe longer. But I cannot deny the resolve I saw in my wife's face when she asked for my forgiveness and finally admitted that she couldn't believe what she had started. I know she is done with him. While they remain co workers she doesn't see him daily and my faith in her strength will get me through just about anything.
Thank you repentant_heart... I appreciated your words, regardless of the feedback you received. I have not buried my head in the sand. I am choosing to forgive, pick myself up and move forward. Does that make me a fool? Maybe but time will tell and the only judge of that will be me. I wish everyone on here all the success in recovery. I am not thumbing my nose at anyone or what you think is best for you. I was just sharing what I thought was best for me.
I think the moral that gets missed in these type of things is that every scenario is different, the people involved are different. While i have read much of what has been discussed in this forum. I found that personal insight has as much to do with healing as any regurgitated check list. While I agree much of what is being heralded as the necessary steps in recovery cannot simply be plugged into every possible scenario.
I read many post on here prior to my first post and I may have done it to just write down somewhere. Someone mentioned the term false recovery. Not all recoveries are false and regardless of amount of time it is possible to recover. I still struggle with images and thoughts of them being together. The words of those emails still trickle through my mind. But I have personally heard the things I needed to hear to forgive.
Don't bash me as not conforming to the Harley method, I know very little about it. I started here as a means to better understand it. By the time I finally decided to post I felt like things were going in the direction I could have only hoped several weeks ago. I know my wife better than anyone on this planet and while I was surprised by her actions I understood them. Complacency in a marriage is more about when than if. Especially with children, the investment we make in our children's lives many times over shadow our own. Gymnastics, Karate, piano and school work to name a few. It was all too easy to become happy roommates caring for these little people we both cared so much about.
I believe my wife was left unfulfilled in a several ways. As we became more and more comfortable with each other she was losing weight and I was finding it. I became uncomfortable with her even wanting to have sex. I knew what she looked like and what I looked like and I knew ultimately it wasn't going in good direction. I tried to lose weight in the past but was never fully dedicated to it. The days following when I found out about what was happening I decide to quit smoking and wasn't going to gain weight doing it. I used the e cigarettes and found them to be sufficient. After 2 weeks I had not smoked and lost 13 pounds. I started running every morning. My renewed lung capacity was apparent and while I wasn't a picture of health I could run a mile in under 10 minutes. I have since lost a total of 3o pound as of this morning, I haven't smoked in 6 weeks and I am feeling better about myself. I help out more around the house, with the kids and over all have taken a new lease on our marriage. She never blamed me, but I did blame myself. I didn't push her across that line, she did that. But I walked her right up to it. I know she hadn't had sex with him. I am grateful I found out when i did because I doubt that action wasn't far off. I knew she felt like she wasn't cheating because she hadn't had sex with him. In the week before I found out I started getting more and more interested in sex. 5 times while on vacation. Then I found out and had a few days off. Ever since it has been at least once a day with maybe one or 2 days off after heavy discussions neither of us were in the mood. It may sound strange but sex alone may have had a huge impact on both of us. It gave us a release and all the stress goes away even if for just a few minutes.
I used this traumatic experience to better myself. Knowing I wasn't going to hurt any more than I already had, exercise and eating properly while quiting smoking would be easy in comparison. I was right. That was something I am sure many people would have disagreed with saying things like don't make huge changes now, let the events settle in and stuff like that.
I am posting my story because while statistically the steps here may be vastly beneficial to many. I think it is important that others going through the same thing know that the people involved and the their stories are unique and may not fit the mold of every program. I know our story isn't over, but I know my marriage isn't over either. I will probably struggle with several things for weeks, month and maybe longer. But I cannot deny the resolve I saw in my wife's face when she asked for my forgiveness and finally admitted that she couldn't believe what she had started. I know she is done with him. While they remain co workers she doesn't see him daily and my faith in her strength will get me through just about anything.
Thank you repentant_heart... I appreciated your words, regardless of the feedback you received. I have not buried my head in the sand. I am choosing to forgive, pick myself up and move forward. Does that make me a fool? Maybe but time will tell and the only judge of that will be me. I wish everyone on here all the success in recovery. I am not thumbing my nose at anyone or what you think is best for you. I was just sharing what I thought was best for me.
In a nutshell: you posted on the Marriage Builders site to tell us you didn't and don't need Marriage Builders?
I think the moral that gets missed in these type of things is that every scenario is different, the people involved are different. While i have read much of what has been discussed in this forum. I found that personal insight has as much to do with healing as any regurgitated check list. While I agree much of what is being heralded as the necessary steps in recovery cannot simply be plugged into every possible scenario.
irresolute, the reason you think we are giving you a "regurgitated check list" is because you are not experienced in recovery. And that is fine. You can learn alot around here if you keep an open mind. Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, has 40 years experience saving marriages that have experienced infidelity. Please take the time to learn those steps.
Most marriages do not recover from affairs, but you don't have to be one of those statistics if you follow this program. Good luck and best wishes.
She's addicted to the affair and just like any recovering alcoholic she should not be working at the bar where her addiction is.
I think she truly wants to recover with you but you are going to have another discovery day while she works with him. It already nearly happened when you were tracking her. Do you think she will stop now?
I feel sorry for your poor wife because he is a predator and has his claws in her and she is not being protected by you. The next time the A resumes she may be too far gone to come back.
But I cannot deny the resolve I saw in my wife's face when she asked for my forgiveness and finally admitted that she couldn't believe what she had started. I know she is done with him. .
Like when she denied it to your face? Addicts don't have any strength. They need you to take the wheel.
well open mind or not. Everything I have done to this point was basically contrary to what most sites such as this say to do. I know I am a little different than most people. I like to think for myself. I sense some hostility here. Maybe that's where many of these issue originate. Exposure may be a great place to start for some people, but humiliating the person I love the most isn't how I perceive a good starting over. Hell I didn't tell some of my friends as to not alienate her any more than she already feels wiith the couple I have spoken to. I guess I'll be doing this on my own. I just can't see why in all cases airing the dirty laundry for all to see is a good place to start. Sorry to have bothered anyone here, good luck
As long as you keep seeing it as "airing dirty laundry" and "humiliating" your WW you are never going to get it.
Do you seriously think that a professional successful psychologist would advice people to expose if it was a hipumilating act?? don't come here attacking the principals we have all used to save our marriages when you really don't get them at all.
I recovered my marriage with exposure, my husband does not hate me for it, my friends and family don't look down on my husband or humiliate him instead they respect the fact that we were honest with them and supported our recovery.
Again just to highlight your position right now, you are supposedly in recovery for what? just over 1 month or so??? And you think you have all the answers.
I have been recovered in a happy marriage for 3 years and I am still learning and developing how to enrich my marriage. That's the definition of not being close minded.
You say you know your wife better than anyone. I have been with my husband for 15 years now since we were 17 so know him just as well but I accept that when people cheat they change and become Waywards, they do nasty things, they lie, they manipulate and therefore they are no longer the people we knew.
As stated before come back when you have a proven track record of saving any marriage over a reasonable amount of time not just a month. You are an enabler and a conflict avoider that's why you haven't fully addressed your WW affair don't try to disguise that by claiming our methods are the issue.
I exposed my FWWs affair in March of 2011.
She thanked me for doing so, to save her from the destructive path, get that evil POSOM away from her, save our marriage.
In all honesty, the very few times we spoke about, she stated once or twice: "I only wish you had done it 3 months earlier...".
Exposure works.
well open mind or not. Everything I have done to this point was basically contrary to what most sites such as this say to do.
I know I am a little different than most people. I like to think for myself. I sense some hostility here. Maybe that's where many of these issue originate.
Exposure may be a great place to start for some people, but humiliating the person I love the most isn't how I perceive a good starting over.
Hell I didn't tell some of my friends as to not alienate her any more than she already feels wiith the couple I have spoken to. I guess I'll be doing this on my own. I just can't see why in all cases airing the dirty laundry for all to see is a good place to start. Sorry to have bothered anyone here, good luck
WHY do you think Dr. Harley recommends exposure? It isn't a vindictive strategy. I can see by your response that you don't have a grasp on why exposure is critical first step.
I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here. I too can think for myself and consider myself to be a reasonable person in most aspects of life.
Are you an expert on recovery from affairs? I don't mean to be snarky at all. Most of us didn't go to school to study adultery and recovery.
The problem is friend, that Infidelity is something that until faced with the situation, none of us know HOW to respond or recover. Unfortunately, all of the logic in the world won't break up an affair as it is fueled by feelings....Not logic. People have been willing to give up their jobs, children, lives EVERYTHING for their A partner.
It is an addiction and must be treated as one. That is why I trust what Dr. Harley teaches. He has 40 years proven experience.
Much of MB's is somewhat counterintuitive to most people. However, Dr. Harley is what most of us to be the leading expert on how to recover from an A.
ALL A's are the same. I thought too that our situation was unique. Guess what? It wasn't.
If you take a little time to digest what he has to teach, you might find it to be quite helpful.
I can say 100% with all the logic in my mind that without MB's I would be divorced after my FWW's A. I give all the credit to Dr. Harley for our R. Looking back, I too thought I had the situation under control. I was wrong. Once we got fully on board with MB, everything changed for the positive!
I hope that you don't find yourself back here in 2-4-6 mo's kicking yourself because you chose to go a different path and did not incorporate the philosophies here.
If you get SAA, it might open your eyes to the possibilities.
...and yes, false recoveries are REAL. Trust me....and more painful than the A itself.
Wise people learn from the mistakes of others.
I think the moral that gets missed in these type of things is that every scenario is different, the people involved are different. While i have read much of what has been discussed in this forum. I found that personal insight has as much to do with healing as any regurgitated check list. While I agree much of what is being heralded as the necessary steps in recovery cannot simply be plugged into every possible scenario.
I understand what you are saying but unfortunately, you are wrong. YES, you CAN plug your situation into Dr. Harley's program and it WILL work for you.
That is the beauty of the system. If you both follow the program it will work for you 100%. I am living proof.
Maybe you might consider listening to the radio broadcast? There is a phone app that allows you to listen to similar stories as yours every day!
irresolute doesn't understand the addictive nature of affairs.
Sometimes even a simple text message years later can reignite an affair once thought dead. And his wife works with this man and will see him regularly.
Tolerating that is like playing Russian Roullete. Six times. With one gun. And he is the only player.
If you're confident that your safe, your marriage is fully recovered, and your recover will last a lifetime, then what is your purpose in posting here?
I guess I'll be doing this on my own. I just can't see why in all cases airing the dirty laundry for all to see is a good place to start. Sorry to have bothered anyone here, good luck
You are like the fat guy who lectures skinny people on how to diet. The problem with your personal philosophies is that you don't know how to recover a marriage from an affair. You are just guessing. Its fine to "think for yourself" when you know what you are doing, but you don't. Unfortunately, your "guesses" amount to nothing more than enabling. And you can't save a marriage when you are an enabler.
I wish you the best.
I guess I'll be doing this on my own. I just can't see why in all cases airing the dirty laundry for all to see is a good place to start. Sorry to have bothered anyone here, good luck
You are like the fat guy who lectures skinny people on how to diet. The problem with your personal philosophies is that you don't know how to recover a marriage from an affair. You are just guessing. Its fine to "think for yourself" when you know what you are doing, but you don't. Unfortunately, your "guesses" amount to nothing more than enabling. And you can't save a marriage when you are an enabler.
I wish you the best.
Depends on what you consider a "saved" marriage. I'm pretty sure he will do this on his own and convince himself that he saved his marriage. That marriage skull be devoid of of his and his wife's Emotional needs being unmet and lead to a empty facade. Or he can follow the advice here and have a happy marriage full of passion and love.
This guy doesn't know the true extent of his wife's infidelity and I am sure he will be back regretting not following the advice given. People (WS/BS) think a marriage at all costs is the only way to fix their situation when in reality that isn't logical. I'm 100% sure he is a "marriage at all costs" person who will fail at his pursuit I marital purity. Like ML said good luck and I hope you come back.
If I had $1 for every time I've seen a BS say "I wish I'd taken their advice" on this board, in my short five years or so on the boards...
I would be rich.
He'll be back, I'll say within 2 years maybe.
Is there a thread for collecting the "I Wish I had Listened Back Then" stories?
Is there a thread for collecting the "I Wish I had Listened Back Then" stories?
I don't think there is but I really wish we can make one, it would save a lot of heartache and debate with the "my situation is special" newbies
Or the "it would destroy him/her" and the "I don't want to air our business" people.
Irresolute,
After reviewing all the emails it was pretty clear this had just started and they hadn't had any intimate contact other than some "cuddling" in a hotel room while traveling together on business.
I know you are stunned by all this, but can you really believe two adults wildly attracted to each other can stop at cudding in a hotel room far from home?
God Bless
Gamma
Didn't you read where he said he's different because he can think for himself? So what was the point of this thread aside from the OP to high five himself and insult the rest of us?
Unfortunately I think the thread was a way for the OP to settle that unsettled feeling most folks have when embarking on a false recovery.
It's always fairly apparent that they are not truly OK with the shakiness of the situation - but they do desperately want it to be OK. Even if he had convinced us, he still wouldn't entirely convince himself - or change the physics of the situation.
Like an untrained trapeze artist who chooses to go without a net they want applause instead of shouts of 'Hey, just use the floor to cross the room'. But cheers won't get you across.
7 months have past and while I am sure this will be perceived by a few as gloating it is not...
I found out Oct 26th 2013, it was a miserable existence. I decide the week before to quit smoking and I wasn't looking back on that decision, so I was a wreck. I went several weeks without any emotional realization from my wife. The it happened, she was distraught and nearly inconsolable. It finally hit her, what she had done and how it effected everything important to her. (This is the cliff notes version so bare with me...) She decided early on to end it but did so with regret, the kind only an addict faces. I understood and recognized it because I was an addict as well, although to just cigarettes and I had been without for a couple weeks. 3 weeks in I caught her in the act of going to see him at their work on a saturday. Tracking an iphone is easy with anyone's icloud pw. I called her and asked what she was doing and where she was going, she lied and lied again. I knew she was lying and i knew I could prove it. She did turn the car around that day and that was the defining moment when it all hit her. She wasn't in love with this guy, she was literally addicted to the attention, the excitement that someone else thought she was great. My attentions hardly ever wavered for the the entire time we were married but like so many other couples it gets too familiar and expected vs. appreciated. I call it getting complacent, i think we both did. We became happy roommates with joint accounts and joint responsibilities. We had sex occasionally (2-3/month) and everything seemed fine.
Lets fast forward to the past few months... She found another job, higher paying, bigger company, brighter future. She wrote an email that even to my eyes seemed harsh to this man. Sure he was one of the religious frauds i disdain so much, christian high school, christian college even christian post grad, most of his facebook friends were pastors, youth ministers and such. He was the poster child for the Christian family man. His marriage had developed into something weak and essentially loveless. He was looking for an outlet, he found one in my wife, who at the time thought her marriage just wasn't what she had signed up for. They had never did have sex, they did go out a few times and traveled overnight on business once and they did spend the night in the same bed, but I read an email to my wife from him that made it clear they didn't have sex and how hard that was. Was that a relief? Not really, the damage had been done, I had read all the letters, the I love you's, the I miss you's...
Back to the letter, she told him, she regretted every second of minute of everyday she was involved with him. She never thought she was capable of such a huge mistake and personal failure. She told him to never contact her again, she would be doing her exit survey with the owner of the company and any HR stuff that he needed to complete would be all via email. She is a relatively private person so she didn't want to bring any of this up during her exit to anyone else, she was embarrassed by it and just wanted to leave and not look back. She asked me if I wanted to read it, I did. I thought wow that was harsh. I am not this man's judge, Hell I think he has good taste, I almost felt bad for him. But I had been put through my personal Hell, those weeks and months were easily the worst of my life. I am on the other side of it now and while my writing style is still all over the map and hard to following the point I am trying to make is that the event while traumatic and hopefully never repeated again, was what made our marriage stronger exponentially. We fell in love all over again. We have sex nearly everyday and it's fantastic. Something we both look forward to all day. I think it's one of the things that brought us back together. Biological, chemistry stuff all over my head but it was clear that the consistent sex was healing things with both of us. I still have remnants of the betrayal in my mind but I am fine. It gets better every month. I am not checking her whereabouts as often or her emails. It was clear to me that it is over. I was pretty diligent for months without her knowledge. I have since told her the lengths in which I went to insure she wasn't lying, I was afraid I was going to hinder our progress but she responded more pleased that i knew everything and there was nothing to know. It further healed us both. She didn't feel the need to walk on egg shells and I no longer felt the need to trace her every steps, electronic or physical. I feel lucky to have had such a second chance, moreover a reset in our relationship, our marriage. It was in fact like hard factory reset on everything. We're more happily married now than maybe ever before. I see her commitment to me everyday and she certainly has seen mine. We got through it, although neither of us will probably ever forget it. we don't talk about it much anymore, we focused on moving forward and happy with where we both are.
So no not all A's are the same, or at least not all the people in them are. I am not better than anyone here, nor smarter. I just wanted people to know that if you're willing to put aside your pride, maybe your anger, If you can metaphorically roll over and show your hurt but still committed to licking your wounds and fixing it. It will take a strong person, a strong couple, but it is possible to recover, regardless of how you get there. Everybody is different. I hope someone out there gets some solace in this. giving up is easy, but a miserable way to go through life. Don't do it until you crossed that line, which may be different for everybody. I was willing to endure a great amount of personal pain through this and I am maybe the lucky fortunate few but it was all so much worth it.
I am a changed man since this all happened. I was miserable so I decide to continue to quit smoking since misery was already established. I was also afraid to gain weight during the trials of my relationship and the smoking cessation. So I started eating right, exercised everyday and lost 65 pounds since Nov 1st. This terrible thing ended up strengthening my marriage and transitioned me from a life long fat guy to someone who can't wait to get into my 34x34 pants ever morning.
What EPs are in place? Do they work together? Honestly, your affair sounds just like all the others. Did you get the full truth via a polygraph or you took her word it wasn't "physical"? Even though you chased this weasel away your wife is still primed for another affair if her boundaries and EPs are non-existent. Was her affair exposed to everyone including the work place HR, CEO, VP etc? Good luck in your recovery.
TD is right - this was a cookie-cutter affair. You don't really have anything to gloat about. Your progress is pretty typical for 8 months out. You still have a minimum of 16 months of recovery left to do. I hope you are following the MB plan, because the greater part of the journey is still ahead of you.
I guess I'll continued to miss the point and that's probably my fault. I am a terrible writer. This forum is pretty specific in it's philosophy. I was just trying to point out that while I used some information here to some degree, I never fully ascribed to the plan. Humiliating my wife for a mistake however big wasn't my style. Am I taking a risk? Sure em. I was just trying to give some hope to others that may be going through the same thing. It can be overcome. I know were not done and complete again but I know where we are and the direction we're heading.
Humiliating my wife for a mistake however big wasn't my style.
It's not ours, either.
Am I taking a risk? Sure em. I was just trying to give some hope to others that may be going through the same thing.
So basically you are trying to encourage people to take a huge risk? Is there a reason we should let that stand without replying and trying to encourage people NOT to take that risk?
Here's what Dr. Harley says about recovery from an affair:
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works.
Dr. Harley has found that even small deviations from the plan are usually disastrous - we here have also all seen the same thing. So of course when someone comes in with an agenda of encouraging people to deviate from the plan, the rest of us chime in to let all the silent readers here know that this is a good way to invite disaster.
You don't have to agree with Dr. Harley that small deviations from the plan are usually disastrous. But the rest of us do, and this board is a place for discussing and learning Dr. Harley's recommendations. So if your purpose is to post your own contrary opinion, then you are in the wrong place. Kind of like accidentally stepping into the wrong restroom before realizing the sign on the door said something else, excusing yourself, and going off to the right place. No worries, but don't stand around debating with everybody to let them know why you actually should be in there, doing what you are doing.
It sounds like your wife did a great job of cutting off contact with the guy, and if I'm understanding correctly she is no longer in a job where she will see him. That is perfect. I hope you guys have a great recovery.
Markos,
Thanks for reading the actual words instead of skimming through it and choosing to pick up on what I may or may not have meant. I appreciate the encouragement. In all honesty that's all I was looking for. I don't have really anyone I am comfortable discussing this personally. I did it once with a friend of mine going through his own marriage struggles. It was 3 hours of release and was great for both of us the week following my discovery.
His wife filed for divorce then pulled the plug, they are still together to this day. I am not comfortable around her as I know some things he doesn't and I am happy to see him happy for now. He's 70 years old with an ailing heart married to a younger women. She got some sex out of her unadvertised affair but stayed with him for what I hope are honorable reasons.
Sex is a powerful thing and while I maintain my wife never had sex with the other man, I'll never be fully certain, but at this point it doesn't truly matter to me. My heart was broken as far as it could be. She has done so much to mend it since then, it's clear to me she wishes she could have a "do over" I am satisfied she'd never do it again. Although I am absolutely certain this event in our lives will ultimately shape our marriage into something so much more. Falling in love all over again for both of us has been magnificent. I have made some changes and so has she, we not only love each other I know we like each more now than ever.
Still not gloating... Just sharing.
The following is not directed at any of the rational people here...
As someone new to this site I never called anyone wrong. I simply put into words what was going on. I didn't do it to promote any program or for the amusement of anyone here. I am pretty sure what I was doing was doing it for myself as a kind of release, just spitting out and writing it down somewhere. I read all of the feedback and I reserve the right to agree with as much as I disagree with. But the negativity here and the consistent pessimism isn't helping those you think might need help. I got what I needed from this forum and I am glad I posted here as opposed to others I considered. The gang mentality exhibited here is a little weird and offered me some levity in an otherwise serious situation. So go ahead and beat me up, tell me I am wrong for the 40th time. I kinda like it. So far what I've done has been successful to this point. I'll continue to update our status, unless of course I am banned for not falling in lock step with the mob.
For those of you who showed me some compassion and understanding...
Thank you so much, a little encouragement is all I really needed. I still have some hard times but they are far fewer and less intense. I am handling it, probably wrongfully so on my own. I do discuss it with my wife most of the time, but not all of the time. I am working on myself and for her part she has beaten herself up enough. It doesn't make me feel better to hit her with that metaphoric stick any more. I love her and I always will. I don't treat people I love that way.
Do you really believe that your wife slept in the same bed with OM and had no sex?
I am handling it, probably wrongfully so on my own. I do discuss it with my wife most of the time, but not all of the time. I am working on myself and for her part she has beaten herself up enough. It doesn't make me feel better to hit her with that metaphoric stick any more.
Everytime you discuss it with her, you are beating her up with that metaphoric stick.
The gang mentality exhibited here is a little weird and offered me some levity in an otherwise serious situation. So go ahead and beat me up, tell me I am wrong for the 40th time. I kinda like it. So far what I've done has been successful to this point. I'll continue to update our status, unless of course I am banned for not falling in lock step with the mob.
For the record, it's a bit rude to walk into someone else's house and accuse them of having a gang mentality or being a mob.
As for me, I'm proud to be one of the weirdos. This program not only creates passionate marriages out of lives that are in shambles, but it completely affair proofs as well. I wouldn't want to be among the normal crowd -- been there, done that, it was hell.
I guess I'll continued to miss the point and that's probably my fault. I am a terrible writer. This forum is pretty specific in it's philosophy. I was just trying to point out that while I used some information here to some degree, I never fully ascribed to the plan. Humiliating my wife for a mistake however big wasn't my style. Am I taking a risk? Sure em. I was just trying to give some hope to others that may be going through the same thing. It can be overcome. I know were not done and complete again but I know where we are and the direction we're heading.
Irresolute, this forum does not advocate humiliation. It advocates exposure, which is the most therapeutic first step towards recovery. You have, unfortunately, skipped this important step which does not bode well for you.
I can only hope you don't skip the other steps, otherwise you are headed towards a death of a thousand cuts. Your situation is very garden variety and I am concerned that you believe that just ending one affair=recovery. In truth, it does not. Most marriages do not recover from infidelity. Rather, they limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage and wither and die over the years. See, when an affair ends is when the real hard work begins. If these steps are not taken, your marriage won't recover.
So no, I don't see your post as a "gloat," but as a sad story of someone who does not realize he is in trouble. It doesn't seem that you have a plan, and not having a plan is a plan to fail. Here is what it takes to recover a marriage:
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
Irresolute, this forum does not advocate humiliation. It advocates exposure, which is the most therapeutic first step towards recovery
There is nothing more therapeutic for the wayward. It's like having an infected wound lanced and cleaned. It is necessary for proper healing to take place.
". But the negativity here and the consistent pessimism isn't helping those you think might need help. I got what I needed from this forum and I am glad I posted here as opposed to others I considered. The gang mentality exhibited here is a little weird and offered me some levity in an otherwise serious situation. So go ahead and beat me up, tell me I am wrong for the 40th time. I kinda like it. So far what I've done has been successful to this point. I'll continue to update our status, unless of course I am banned for not falling in lock step with"
With all due respect, that sounds like the bitterness of someone who was told something he didn't want to hear. It is ungrateful to ask people for help and then condemn them because you don't like the answers. Your post is the only negative thing I see on this thread. People volunteered their own free time to help you and this your thanks? No one had to help you.
irresolute,
your situation is the rare exception(if it works out for you, in the long run).
yes it could work.
yes your wife could suddenly fully repent and y'all could have a "do over"
Literally it is a one in a million shot, congrats you hit the lottery!
I hope we don't see you back in 2 years, saying "wow, was i wrong and stupid"
God speed and good luck. I am skeptical, but wish you the best.
But the negativity here and the consistent pessimism isn't helping those you think might need help.
irresolute, these people have been providing the best marriage help possible - some of them have been at it for ten years. It just looks really tacky and ill-advised to lecture them on how to help people. After all, they've been studying under Dr. Willard Harley, the most successful marriage counselor in history, in a field dominated by failure.
I think you would come off a little more positively if you would drop the lecturing tone and stop telling everybody else how to do what they do. People who show up here to talk but not listen are not only rude; they usually miss out on a lot that could have benefited them as well.
irresolute,
your situation is the rare exception(if it works out for you, in the long run).
yes it could work.
yes your wife could suddenly fully repent and y'all could have a "do over"
Literally it is a one in a million shot, congrats you hit the lottery!
I hope we don't see you back in 2 years, saying "wow, was i wrong and stupid"
God speed and good luck. I am skeptical, but wish you the best.
He and his wife seem to be doing a lot of things right, but his main purpose in posting seems to be to justify making certain exceptions. As he said, these exceptions are a BIG RISK. Somehow he thinks he should be lecturing people for being "non-compassionate" for not justifying those exceptions.
I guess he thinks that "compassion" means watching your friends take huge risks!
It really is rude for him to be here posting like this. I wish he'd get that, because going on and continuing to do it as he is doing is really kind of embarrasing - trying to point this out in the nicest way possible that he is behaving in a really tacky way, not to mention missing out on a lot of good expertise that could help him.
I hope your recovery succeeds.
I just want you to understand precisely what you are up against. It is WAY to early to declare victory! You have much ahead of you. I warn you of that because I want you to succeed. Seeing you deviate from the path is alarming. If you want to trailblaze, that is your choice. We would be negligent not to warn you of the risk. We would be even more negligent of we didn't challenge your assertion to others that the risks are exaggerated here.
Irresolute,
For someone who is so "resolute" that his marriage is A-OK, I find your username a bit odd.
ir�res�o�lute
adjective: irresolute
showing or feeling hesitancy; uncertain.
"she stood irresolute outside his door"
synonyms:
indecisive, hesitant, vacillating, equivocating, dithering, wavering, shilly-shallying; More
Or was that your intention all along? Irony.
I hope your recovery succeeds.
I just want you to understand precisely what you are up against. It is WAY to early to declare victory! You have much ahead of you. I warn you of that because I want you to succeed. Seeing you deviate from the path is alarming. If you want to trailblaze, that is your choice. We would be negligent not to warn you of the risk. We would be even more negligent of we didn't challenge your assertion to others that the risks are exaggerated here.
x10000
First year of recovery was honeymoon period. He started slipping back into old habits 1.5-2yrs after dday. We are divorced now.
Not exposing backfires EVERY time. My ex had a workplace affair - I didn't expose him there because he voluntarily left the job, NC, EPs and agreed to do everything to fix our M. He had another workplace affair four years later. This is a story I see on these forums OFTEN.
You are on the train tracks and we are telling you the train is coming. You are free to ignore, of course!
You are on the train tracks and we are telling you the train is coming. You are free to ignore, of course!
And he IS ignoring it, because His "guess" is that "everybody is different." In particular, HE is different from all of you, the
hoi polloi--you know, "the mob."
tl