My friend married their affair partner last week. My brother chose the same wedding date, so I had a good excuse not to go. I wouldn't have been able to stomach the wedding.

I need to vent, or hear from others who have been through something similar.

I love this friend dearly.

This is somebody who was always a stand up person. They were with their ex-spouse for 7 years, no kids.

My friend and I drifted for the first half of last and then started talking frequently right after their marriage fell apart. I was a big fan of the ex-spouse, although we weren't close, and very sad that they broke up.

Right up until the very end, my friend held up a lovey dovey presence on social media about how wonderful the marriage was.

I later found out later that the affair was going on for the last 9 months of the marriage.

Days after the marriage was officially separated, my friend and their Affair Partner went public in a loud, over the top way, telling everyone they were soul mates, saying "the love of my life", etc. They are still acting like that. They are acting like teenagers in their first relationship.

When I finally met the Affair Partner, they told me how long they had actually been together and the "overlap" with my friend's marriage. They seemed to think it was something to feel giddy and proud of.

I felt very on the spot and strangely hurt and that they should have had enough respect for me as a friend to not put me on the spot like that. I felt like they were pushing me to see how far I would go without judging them.

I feel as though there were a lot of was to handle the affair/falling in love with somebody else was leaving, but they chose the least classy and most hurtful way possible for everyone besides themselves and the Affair Partner's friends/family. (Affair Partner was not married.)

The Affair Partner's friends/family are acting like my friend and this marriage is the greatest idea in the world. The Betrayed Spouse and their friends/family are heartbroken.

Isn't there a rule that you can't build happiness on other people's pain?

I have spoken to the ex to give them support/offer good thoughts, and was told, quite politely and kindly, that they had been through so much pain and destruction at the hands of my friend that they couldn't stay in touch with any of the ex's friends. I said I understood and wished them well. My heart breaks for the Betrayed Spouse.

I am one of the few old friends my friend is in touch with. The rest are disgusted and bewildered by their behavior.

I have truly tried to befriend the new spouse, but they have been pretty rude to me and I get the sense that they are trying to cut out all reminders of my friend's "old life".

This friend has been an important part of my life, but I'm at a loss right now. I want to shake them and say, "What the hell is wrong with you?"

And now they're officially married.

I feel like I am being holier than thou or judgmental but their behavior has really hurt and baffled me.

From reading some other posts about affairages, it seems like their behavior is pretty text book, huh?

This has all happened in less than a year. My friend filed for divorce in December.

I'm sad about a lot of things. I feel I can't trust this friend anymore, since they were so capable of being deceptive and phony. The way the new spouse treats me was terrible and rude.

This has nothing to do with me, but I am so sad and confused and wondering how this will likely turn out.

Are these couples ever as blissfully happy and "soulmates" like they think they are?

Welcome to MB.

Your post is entirely gender neutral. What are the sexes of these people - your friend, the original spouse and the new spouse?

Sorry--good friend is a guy, was married to a woman, left for another woman. My friend and his ex-wife are both 33, the new wife is 31. I grew up with him.

You can't trust them!
That's old, old common sense that an adulterer is the least trustworthy person on the planet.
Henry Ford would FIRE any known adulterer...he said that if the person can't be trusted to be loyal and honest with his/her spouse, then how could that cheater be trusted by their employer?!

I know I knew that. This whole thing has been extremely upsetting to me. I always thought he was one of the truly stand-up guys I knew.

He and his new wife are acting so blissfully unaware of all the hurt and pain they have caused.

But is there any chance of this new marriage lasting? I just can't imagine it being possible.

Just back away and leave them be and find new friends.

No need to force a relationship with your old friend.

I have a friend who did the same thing and I told her I couldn't be friends with anyone who did such a thing. And think about that for a moment: who would choose a "friend" who believes in lying and cheating? I would never trust such a person. Nor would I ever want to endorse adultery.

I will add that if this "friend" ever wakes up from the affair fog, he will not remember you fondly if you supported this affair. He will view you as an enabler. He will eventually realize he made the worst mistake of his life.

Their affairage is doomed. The very traits that made it possible, deceit, selfishness and thoughtlessness will eventually destroy the relationship. These relationships are built on the very worst traits so once the gloss wears off [which usually happens quickly] there is nothing to hold them together. They will obviously not be able to trust each other out of their sight.

Affairs have a 95% of failure. Of the 5% that do make it to marriage, there is a 80% failure rate within 5 years.

I have worked for 2 Fortune 500 companies since 1989 and this is something that hiring managers talk about. If a person is a known adulterer, they are quietly managed out. If it is a workplace affair, they are fired. Character is so important and most people can not get past the trust problem.

Very few affairages turn out to be happy in the long term. The problem is that they started out with deception, dishonesty, and independent behavior. The likelihood of those traits continuing on into the new marriage is quite high.

One person in an affairage told me that she fakes her happiness and refuses to give up on the marriage, because, "everything we did would have been for nothing."

Thank you.

The moment they bragged about how long they had been together, I realized how sick I felt about all of this. I feel like had they show some remorse, it would have been one thing but they were so proud and shameless that it was hard for me to look them in the eye.

I keep remembering how this friend was in the olden days, we've known each other since we were little. Our families were very close and we were raised like cousins and then we went to college together, so we were always in each other's lives and he always looked out for me. He was such a good guy and his ex-wife is a wonderful person.

Ughhhhh. Thanks. I needed to vent. Funny how a betrayal that had nothing to do with you can hurt you.

And, of course, I don't blame everything on "the other woman" but:

Would a good person really get involved with somebody she knew was married and then happily flaunt the fact that she hooked up with a married man?

She's been terrible to me. She's nice to me in front of my friend, but the few times I have been around her, she's acted cold and annoyed by my presence.

I guess there's a chance she doesn't trust a female friend. She knows he wanders.

Okay, I'm cutting off communication. They're in their own little world. I doubt he'd even notice.

Thanks.

Is rushing into marriage common for affairages?

Let me point out that being friends with a married man is a bad idea for you in the first place. That's how affairs start!

People who don't have affairs don't have opposite sex friends. It's that simple. Opposite sex friends cause a contrast effect that makes the marriage less satisfying.

Why do you care so much about this man's marriage?

All of us would have an affair under some circumstances. None of us would have an affair under other circumstances. Having a female friend is not a trustworthy thing for a married man to do, so of course his wife should not trust him. It would be irrational and emotionally dangerous for a wife to force herself to trust a husband who is acting in an untrustworthy manner.

I imagine his ex-wife didn't trust him at all with all the female friends he apparently had.

She didn't deserve this at all, nor did their children, if any.


The people who are really hurting here are his wife and children.

There's a factor in this story that would explain why our friendship always was and always will be 100% platonic but I was not comfortable posting it here. I was about to PM you but you don't accept them.

Are you married?

Don't you dare PM my husband!
You have very poor boundaries.

It's not that he's the kind of guy that wanders. There aren't guys who wander and guys who do not. ALL of us would have affairs under certain circumstances. ALL of us.

It's not the kind of guy he is or that he is or isn't a standup guy or whatever else. It's his behavior. Married people who accept opposite sex friends are the people who end up having affairs. Especially the ones who say it could never happen to them.

Read this information about how affairs start:

How do Affairs Begin?

Anatomy of Adultery

chapter 13 of His Needs, Her Needs

You're welcome to tell me and my wife together.

Whatever the factor is, I can almost guarantee that I've seen an affair here that started with that factor present, supposedly guaranteeing no affair was possible. Are you half-siblings? Full-siblings? Married to his brother? Major age difference? I've seen it!!

You were about to PM a man who first posted to you just a little while ago?

Quite apart from the wrongness of wanting to PM a married man, what makes you think that someone you don't know from Adam would keep your secret? What would stop him from PM the message all over the board, or even posting it here?

There are some oddities about your story and that is one of them. The closeness of your friendship to your married male friend is another.

I'm a lesbian and he's the first person I came out to in college. He's been one of my best friends for a long time and he always looked out for me when I was struggling. The reason I feel so close to him is because he WAS there for me when I was at my worst. That's why it's so hard for me to accept that he's not the guy I thought he was.

I didn't feel comfortable sharing that and, yes, the new wife isn't nice to me even though I'm not a threat, but some are wary of any member of the opposite sex regardless.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but, yes, our friendship is completely platonic.

I've seen men on here who had affairs with lesbians and women who have had affairs with gays. Many a straight person has suddenly found out they are gay, and many a gay person has suddenly found out they are bi.


The point is that they should be wary!

Did you read the links I posted about how affairs start?

You could begin to have romantic feelings for this man or any man as a result of a close friendship with him. If that were to happen, you wouldn't be the first lifelong lesbian I've come across who embarked on a relationship with a man.

We've known each other 28 years. I've been gay that entire time. Nothing will ever happen.

Wow. I was honestly very upset and disappointed in a guy I held in very high regard for cheating on his wife. I said several times how much I liked his ex wife, how terrible I felt for her and how I reached out to her after the break up.

And somehow I'm the shady one?

Are gay men and straight women allowed to be close friends or did I miss that memo too?

My point is that he was shady for continuing to be friends with you after he was married. You're not the one who made a lifelong vow to forsake all others - HE is. And he didn't do that. He should have forsaken you and other women, but he did not, and as a result, predictably, he had an affair.

Did you read the links I posted about how affairs start?

I wouldn't stand for my husband having a close friendship with a woman whether she was a lesbian or not. The woman in that friendship is a threat to me no matter how strongly she claims that the relationship can only ever be platonic.

I think that, as well as avoiding this couple whose values you (quite rightly) dislike, you should learn in general to respect the rights of the wife in a marriage. She has a right to expect her husband not to have close female friends, and she shouldn't be made to feel unreasonable for not wanting them around. You should have ended you close friendship to him at the start of his first marriage.

So who are gay people allowed to be friends with?

Using your logic, we shouldn't be allowed to be friends with each other, either.

His wife and I weren't that close, but we were friends and she was cool with me.

She wasn't cool with him cheating on her, obviously, but she knew I was gay and didn't care that we were friends.

And this is why I didn't want to talk about being gay or the sexes of the couple in my original post.

Should have just said he was my cousin, since that is how we were raised since we were toddlers. My mistake.

A gay person who wants to be faithful needs to guard his or her boundaries as much as everybody else does. Close friendships with people of the opposite sex might not be a high threat to their relationships, but they are a threat. I know there have been affairs in such situations.

Dr Harley's Marriage Builders has been derived as a result of research into traditional marriage and relationships. We know how affairs between opposite sex persons start; they usually start with friendships. They usually start with conversation and spending time doing interesting things together. We know how people fall in love with each other; it is when their emotional needs are well met.

Really, anyone can fall in love with anyone else whom they allow to meet their emotional needs. We know how to avoid that happening with opposite sex, married individuals; avoid opposite sex friendships and spending time alone with opposite sex individuals.

Honestly, I really do mean well and have felt very saddened and disappointed in my friend and very, very hurt for his wife. We have a lot of friends in common and pretty much none of them speak to him anymore. Because of our families' connection, I have had a harder time walking away because we have been through a lot together.

I don't think anybody has questioned that. Or at least it certainly hasn't been my intent. But as an educational site, one of the things we do is spread the word about how affairs start.

Did you read the links I posted about how affairs start?

How would we be able to advise you about the issues if we didn't know the sexes of the people involved? We cannot give advice on incomplete information.

Cousins have relationships all the time. Some even marry. That lie would not have stopped us warning you from being too close to this married man.

But I don't go for men. I never will.

My father cheated on my mother. We went through a lot.

This guy was always a strong,dependable,protective figure in my life. Of course it's bothering me that he betrayed his wife and it is very hard to cut ties with my oldest friend.

What is the "this" that you are referring to?

We are saying that your being gay are does not matter in this situation. It does not exempt this man from avoiding a close friendship with you. We are actually giving you the same advice that we would give any woman who is close friends with a married man.

If I was a gay man, would you feel the same way? "Oh, maybe this guy will suddenly 'change' and fall for him so it's inappropriate?"

My friendship with this man was not the issue.

It's the women (and I wouldn't be surprised if there were many others before the new wife) that he cheated on his wife with. I have never cheated on anybody or pursued anybody who was in a relationship. I don't do that.

I DO think the new wife's issue with me is more that I am from his old life, knew his wife and she wants a fresh start. The only friends they socialize with are all of hers. I was curious if other people were shut out by the new spouses in an "affairage" and if this was a common thing that others dealt with. I am upset with having to accept that I had to let go of this friendship.

I don't really know what we're arguing about here.

I thought you'd decided to do what everybody else has done and stop having a friendship with this man, because of what he's done to his family. Are you going to do that or not?

I don't know why you are bringing up your sexuality again if your relationship with him is over. It seems as if it's being brought up to justify continuing to be friends with him.

I'm talking about the nearly 30 years of friendship we have had over the years. There was nothing inappropriate about it.

And, yes, I am backing off of the friendship. But I never heard anybody have the belief that gay men and straight women/straight men and gay women couldn't be very close friends. I obviously have a million friends in the gay community. All of them have close, married friends of the opposite sex and different sexual preference.

You may be right about her issue, but it doesn't matter. She doesn't want a friendship with you (for herself or her husband) and you just have to accept that. That is quite a normal thing to happen when a couple marries - for some of their previous friendships to end. I can appreciate that it's upsetting, but there is nothing that you can do about it. You have no "rights" to that friendship.

I appreciate that you haven't heard that belief. I think that a lot of people would find that belief preposterous.

However, the people who post in this particular forum have had experience of affairs in our own marriages (for the most part) and we have also read hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of threads on this forum about affairs in other people's marriages. We have seen affairs that developed between the most unlikely people. We have read Dr Harley's analysis of how romantic relationships are formed - both affairs and non-affairs - and his analysis fits what we observed in our own marriages and the affairs that rocked them. Romantic relationships are formed through the successful meeting of the other person's emotional needs.

That's all it takes. It takes a willingness by the married person to let those needs be met - what we sometimes call "loose boundaries" - by another person.

We could all have affairs; even the betrayed spouses here, who at first could not understand how their unfaithful spouse could do such a thing to them, know now that we could easily have affairs if we let another person meet our emotional needs.

You may believe (or "know") that you could never have a relationship with a man under any circumstances. I don't know you and I wouldn't accept your word on that; I would need to know a lot more about your emotional make-up to be able to believe that, but it doesn't matter if we disagree. There is no point in arguing with each other about hypothetical situations.

You may think that this wife is wrong to see you as a threat - whether because of your sexuality or because you are from "the past' - but again, it doesn't matter whether she is right or wrong. What matters is that this man is now married to her and she has the right not have unwanted people in her marriage.

Your posts are very confused. You originally said that you were conflicted about staying friends with a man you previously respected who is now in an affairage; there was a moral question about whether you should stay friends with him. After some discussion you seemed to accept that, as a person with a conscience you would have to end this friendship. But as your posts have progressed, you seem to be more offended that his wife doesn't want to stay friends with you, and you seem to be fighting for your right to be friends with someone with whom you've had a 30 year relationship. The question of the affairage seems to have fallen by the wayside.

I think if you've taken the moral decision not to have anything more to do with someone who is in an affairage, you shouldn't care about his wife's attitude to you. You should wear her dislike as a badge of honour! You should follow through on your conscientious decision and not have anything to do with either of them.

The fact that your friendship continued after he was married was inappropriate. Being a lesbian does not mean you cannot fill his Lovebank. HIS Lovebank does not care if YOU are gay. There are a lot more emotional needs than just sex, and they should be met by his wife, not you. Your friendship gives a nice contrast effect for him.

And yes, the same is true for gay men and married women. My husband would not want me to be good friends with a gay man -- not because he's gay, but because he's male. That sets up a very dangerous situation in which the friend could meet some very important emotional needs for me that my HUSBAND should be meeting.

As a general rule, if your married friends came here and wanted advice to save their marriage they would be advised to end all opposite sex friendships.

There is too much potential for affairs.

Based on your posts, it's obvious that you are attracted to this man. he meets your emotional needs and you are upset that his new wife doesnt want you around.

I would find a new friend that isnt married.

Well, did you?

About 60% of marriages will suffer at least one affair during the course of the marriage. About 40% of marriages end in divorce; 20% end in permanent lifelong separation; 20% stay married but are unhappy.

Only 20% of marriages actually end up happy.

Most people's beliefs do not contribute toward happy marriages or toward protecting marriages from affairs. The vast majority of people have beliefs that do exactly the opposite.

That doesn't stop him from going for you, though. Even if he never acts on it.

If a MARRIED man is willing to have a friendship with you, he has poor boundaries around women and is very likely open to affairs/affairages.

I'm not sure how much clearer we can make it that the problem is that this MARRIED MAN did something that was very common yet very destructive for his marriage: he had female friendships! I fear she is so busy being defensive that she's not going to listen.

Stella,

I would tell your friend that you are unhappy about his affair, and you cannot hide this fact. Friendships are dependent on honesty. Without honesty, your friendship is superficial. And it will be anyway, because you won't be able to get past your disgust.

The best thing at this point to tell him the truth and then cut ties with him and his affair partner.

She is defensive because she feels she is safe. People commonly accept the myth that there are "safe" attributes, i.e. the woman is already married, or she is a lesbian, or she is a nun, or she is extended family, etc. People can fall in love with anybody who makes enough love bank deposits. Nobody is safe ignoring that. Those of us who manage to avoid affairs do so by guarding our love banks. That means - no friendships where we can make deposits in other people's love banks, or where they can make deposits into ours.

I'm a bit stumped here and, even though it doesn't apply to me, I tend to be a logical thinker and am having trouble reconciling some of the logic here. So, let me explain issue with what previous posters have said using examples:

I am a female and have a female friend who gets married or, maybe, we're both married. We allowed to remain friends even though she is/we both are married because we are of the same gender.

A male who has a male friend who gets married or, maybe both are married, are allowed to remain friends even though he is or they both are married because they are of the same gender.

A lesbian (meaning sexually attracted to other females) is allowed to be friends with a woman who is married because they are the same gender (even though she is sexually attracted to females) but not allowed to be friends with married males (even though she is not sexually attracted to them)?

A gay man (meaning he is sexually attracted to other males) is allowed to be friends with a man who is married because they are the same gender (even though he is sexually attracted to males) but not allowed to be friends with married females (even though he is not sexually attracted to them)?

Who, then, are homosexuals allowed to be friends with? Only non-married individuals and never anyone who is married?

Did anyone actually say that?

Or this?

Well, I don't know the answer to that. This site is dedicated to traditional marriages, and we do know the pitfalls of friendships for spouses in such marriages.

The Harleys recommend that our spouse should be our favorite recreational partner and that a great marriage requires a minimum of 15 hours every week meeting the four intimate emotional needs.

The challenge with homosexuals is that they can and do cross over, as anyone can if the other person is meeting their emotional needs, especially the intimate ones.

I was just listening to Friday's show in which he said that, in general, if a marriage is great, then a spouse usually won't be tempted by a same sex relationship. A woman can simply enjoy the friendship of another woman without it turning into a problem for the marriage; however, when a spouse notices that he or she would rather spend time with another person other than his or her spouse, this needs to be addressed and changed.

Another problem is that if a straight person is close personal friends with a same-gender homosexual, love units can be deposited into the homosexual's love bank and cause that person to be attracted to the spouse. This is just as dangerous as if an OS person falls in love with someone's souse, even if the spouse is not in love the OS person.

The bottom line is that this man has a wife and she does not want her husband to have a friendship with this woman, the original poster.

Everybody is allowed to be friends with whoever they want in life, assuming the other person also wants to be friends with them.

But if you want to have a happy and successful marriage that never experiences infidelity, then you need to rule out at least two kinds of friendships: a) friends of the opposite sex, and b) any friend your spouse is not enthusiastic about.

If you are outside of the marriage, it's not the marriage's job to make sure you have friends. The purpose of marriage is to provide for the married people, not to provide friends for everybody else in the world. I can remember at least once when a female friend ended a friendship with me and I presumed she was doing it because she was married. I was offended. But she was doing the right thing! And even though I was offended at the time, my feelings on the matter weren't her problem or her husband's. I just had to go find other friends. (Today this wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be that kind of friends with a married woman in the first place!!!)

He is a man who is attracted to women, so it is entirely possible that just by being his friend, and giving him platonic admiration (respecting his character etc) you were meeting his needs in a more powerful way than any male friend can.

From reading your posts you strike me as a very moral person who despises affairs. I am not saying you were a potential affair, I don't think he thought so either.


It's just that people who have affairs like to have attention from the opposite sex. They don't intend for it to become sexual or romantic when they go looking for that but often it does, as it has with his affair.

As a woman who was friends with a straight man, you trusted him to have proper boundaries around women. To be respectful in his thoughts towards you and to be open and honest about his female friendships to his wife. It's clear you respect his wife and you would not have been friends with him had you suspected he was hungry for the attentions of the opposite sex on the side, in a secretive way.

That's why you feel sick. You gave platonic friendship but now he has been proven untrustworthy you are not so sure how it was received.

I'd feel sick too. I would offer my support to his wife and befriend her in her time of need. If he ever goes crawling back to her on his knees (95 pc of affairages end in two years) both he and she will remember your stand and value you as a friend to the marriage.