Sorry for the long story-i wanted to give as much detail as I could.


Hi all

I'm new to this and would love some help & advice throughout what I can only describe as the lowest point of my life. I also hope others can learn from the mistakes I have made.

My wife and I were together for 7.5 years (living together for 7) and married for 1 year 6 months. We had what we both thought was an incredibly strong and fireproof relationship and were so happy in each others company.

I'm am 33 and my wife is 32, we were planning (for the past few years) on children, had picked names and always said we would wait until we were 35. This year I went through a tough time personally due to lifes usual pressures and a bad accident which left me with two months off work (I'm fine now). I really withdrew into myself for around 3 months and stopped communicating with my wife and showing her affection/attention and didn't have much interaction with my friends either. At the time I didn't realize what was happening and my wife and I never spoke about this as we genuinely didn't realize there was a problem as each day rolled into the next and we just got on with things. I became very dependent on her and her time but when I was with her i wasn't the same partner she loved so dearly.

Then out of the blue she dropped the bombshell-I need to take some time away,-i'm going to go to my parents, things haven't been the same with us and I am confused. I feel like I have lost myself and need to talk to someone (she never did)-I asked her if she was breaking up with me and she said 'absolutely not'-I just need to take some time to work out what's going on. I did the usual begging, asking for reassurances etc etc etc but the more I did that the more she withdrew and closed off. She told her friends she just needed a couple of weeks away but this turned into a tragic situation.

Over that period I met with her 3-4 times and the girl I was looking at wasn't my wife, her eyes were blank, she was emotionally dead and couldn't talk about things-I have since discovered she wasn't talking to anyone, even her best friends or mom.

One of the times we met she said I feel like I am falling out of love with you and it scares me because I thought we were special and not like everyone else. Then 2 weeks later she withdrew further and said she maybe married me for the wrong reasons (because I was a great guy). Throughout this tike she completely changed and was like a different girl.
I knew at this point there must have been someone else involved and she was saying these things to justify her actions to herself-there was no way she meant these things which she has since admitted.

I also knew at this stage that she hadn't had an affair 'yet' but was very sure was having an emotional affair with a guy from work (who she previously despised) but spent alot of work time with recently.

Well-one month later she slept with him-I was tipped off that they were on a night out together, drove to the place I knew they were and seen them-i spoke with her and it was like speaking with and looking at a different person-she wasn't wearing much make up, dressed very poorly and she told me it was just a night out with friends- my relationship with her parents is incredibly strong and I went to tell them the situation-they couldn't believe it and told me to drive back and take her home. I was too late (Why I didn't do that in the first place I'll never know)

She didn't come home to her parents that night and I knew in my heart at this stage she had spent the night with him-i stayed awake all night and drove in he next morning to the place I knew she had parked her car. When I got there I saw them getting out of a car together and told her to get into my car-right then she told me she slept with him that night and looking at her she was vacant-I didn't judge her, shout or get angry-we drove straight to her parents.

The next few hours were horrible-to begin with she was staring into space blankly and wouldn't talk to anyone-then eventually she broke down as cried uncontrollably for hours-she said she didn't know who she was, didn't want anyone (even her parents) and did not know what she was doing. She was normally a very intelligent, solid and reliable person to all an so loving towards family and friends.

I left her parents and went to a friends-3 hours later she called and said she needed to see me-we met at our home, hugged and she said 'how can I make this right'-after that we lay on the couch and didn't really say too much for around 1 hour-we just needed to be with each other for some strange reason-then she left and went to her parents, I left and went to mine. I told her i wanted our marriage and would do anything for it.

We had some contact for a few days afterwards but she couldn't come home-she then she contacted me 2 weeks later-asked to meet and told me it was over. At this time i know (through her friend) that she still had feelings for the other guy-when she said it was over I asked -do you mean divorce-she said 'I hadn't even thought about that'-it hasn't been mentioned since. This was around the middle of June.

After that we had no contact for 5 weeks, my wife went back to we parents and I stayed at our home. After 5 weeks of soul searching and hell I asked to meet with her, she said of course and we met, talked for around 4 hours and for the first time I felt that I was speaking with the person I loved so dearly. I told her I felt I had played a big part in her actions inadvertently and understood she didn't want to hurt me. During our talk she was warm, affectionate, hugged me lots and i felt like her closed heart was opened to me again-I asked about giving things a go and she said she didn't want to give me any hope as she just didn't want me hanging on. We left things on good terms with a hug and kiss but didn't talk about divorce etc. She told me to come see her parents at any time and was more than welcome in her house.

That night we texted a bit and she said it was great to see me and I would always have a massive impact on her. Since then I have been inconsistent in my actions. When I have cut contact she has texted saying things like 'just saying hey xxx'-normally warm when she initiates contact-and when I have been feeling desperate/needy I have contacted her-anytime I initiate this she closes off.

Many of her clothes/belongings are still in our home, she is living with her parents and by all accounts is miserable (in her words, I am just trying to get through every day)-her mom has confided in me and told me she is still very quiet, not going out much and still not the same daughter she raised.

3 weeks ago she texted to ask if she could come to the house to get some things (this killed me) but came and only took 2-3 things. At this point I told her I would still do whatever it takes to save out marriage and she said 'my head just isn't I'm a place where I think it could work after what I did and all that has happened'-I told her I know things couldn't be the same but if we have learned from things it could make us stronger-she said she just can't see how it could after what she did.

I went on vacation for 10 days came back and had a night planned with her dad (tickets she bought for us last Christmas)-I went to her house to collect him, she was there, we hugged, she kissed me on the cheek, we laughed and she commented on how well I looked. It was again like seeing my wife and best friend again.

I'm really confused as to what to do now, I'm struggling to get through every day but trying to get on with things as best I can. I've been seeing a counsellor, have recently signed up for some coaching for consistency in my actions and have tried to implement a 180 but am finding this tough due to how I feel. I feel like my world has fallen down around me and all my hopes and dreams are shattered-I will never love anyone else and all I have ever wanted was a family.

People have told me that there is still hope but my fear is that my wife will be too afraid to face our friends family and face up to what she did.

I'm currently in a period of growth, reading a lot and trying to mentally prepare myself if she ever does return but I fear she never will and it kills me to think I have lost my best friend, hopes as dreams and my life has no purpose.

Where do i go next?

Sir,
You need to expose this affair far and wide.
Expose to family and friends.
Expose to the co-workers family and friends and the workplace.

Your first step is to read about proper exposure here:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583#Post2566583

Thanks Jedi

I exposed to both our families and friends (the same day she had her first encounter with him).

To say everybody was shocked was an understatement-I also told some of her work colleagues (who I am good friends with).

We've had intermittent (hot & cold) contact since but my wife says she can't work out how things could work after what she did...at a bit of a loss where to go now?

Did you expose to the Other Man's (OM) family and friends?

The guidebook that dictates how affairs are killed and recovered is Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley.
I encourage you to buy this book ASAP, as all advice you receive here will be based on the book guidelines.

Thank you once again for your response-I just bought that book for kindle so will get to it.

At this stage of proceedings my thoughts are that I need to adapt plan B and cut all contact. I can't demand that she doesn't see this guy even though I don't know if they are together because she has been clear that she any see how things could work with us after what she did. Our relationship remains strong and warm when we do have contact but any talk of reconciliation leads her to close down we communication and say 'I just can't get my head around how it would be the same after what happened'

We don't have children so its very infrequently that we see each other bit any time there has been a period of no contact she reaches out in some way to say hey. Divorce hasn't been talked about and many of her belongings are still here at home.

Is plan B the right option at this stage?-it's been 3 @1/2 months since her affair. I am willing to wait it out without any further exposure because I am
sure it will die a natural death (her friends were sure of this when they found out too)

To put things in perspective-this guy has a reputation for this type of thing-it till absolutely shocks me that my wife fell for this (or was drawn in by his charm) but I understand this was because he was showing her attention when I wasn't. They are polar opposites!

Her mom tells me she is still very quiet around the house an sitting around at the weekends doing nothing-I know she could be letting time pass before connecting with him but I think a no contact approach or away the option of me may make a difference?

As a general rule, Dr. Harley advises husbands to remain in Plan A for at least 6 months

Does she still work with the guy???

The 180 is a horrible plan for you. It simple has you ignoring your wife confirming you don't care about her and confirming she isn't worth fighting for while also permitting the affair to continue unabated until it dies a natural death. During this slow agonizing process you have periodic contact with her which also never provides you with peace as you detach from the currently toxic relationship.

At MB you'd either be in Plan A - actively fighting for your marriage, exposing the affair, demanding no contact (and that she quit that job), confronting the issues in your marriage head on and bringing your wife home where you could work on your marriage together (her parents shouldn't be feeding and sheltering a known adulterer without your consent....they "gave" their daughter to you and they should respect that).

Or you'd be in Plan B - you've clearly communicated your love and desire to work things out. Your wife refuses to end her relationship so you end up going "no contact" Plan B on her and completely end all communication and attempts at reconciliation. OM must meet all her needs while you begin to experience a life without your wife. In the process of Plan B you will be detaching while also preserving, to the extent possible, the remaining love you have for her such that IF she wakes up in time to realize what she's losing ....you'll still care enough to give the relationship another go.

Sorry you find yourself in this position. Welcome to MB.

Mr. Wondering

What kind of workplace is this? Would the bosses care??? Exposing to bosses often results in either OM or WW getting fired and the situation of her working with him gets resolved by you.

Is the OM married or in a relationship? Perhaps his girlfriend would be interested to know what he's doing at work.

Do you know the OM's friends and family? If not, does he have a facebook page that lists his "friends" that we could help you expose to? These type of player guys HATE exposure and often behave like cockroaches when the lights start getting turned up around them by exposing their behavior.

You are not in Plan B yet...so you remain, for now, in Plan A.


She can't see you working out because her mind is playing wayward tricks on her. She's still seeing and talking to OM so her brain tells her that she must not truly love you if she's willing to do this. Her feelings for OM have overridden her feelings for you so now she's not attracted to you and your neediness of the last few months has only exacerbated that. All that is over-comeable if you can just get her to go "no contact" with OM.

Thank you so much for your response-she does still work with him-yes. Although she tried to switch jobs-he is not in a relationship at the minute-he has an on and off parther who he has a child with and she regularly puts up with this behaviour from him-they aren't together at the minute. His friends (unfortunately I know many of them through work and see them everyday are very similar in nature so my approach is to ignore them and be the bigger person.

I'm not sure if thu are in a relationship (I feel to a certain extent that the exposure to her parents and friends have stopped this although I can't be sure)

I don't see how I can implement plan A and convince her to go NC when she is still not in any way committed to reconciliation. I do agree though that the 180/plan B are exceptionally slow and agonising. I've prepared myself for the pain of that and am 100% willing to use that time to grow and learn if she does return.

Men can usually stay in Plan A for 6 months, even longer, without the stress affecting their health. That's why Dr. Harley strongly recommends that men stay in Plan A for so long. In Plan A, you eliminate all your love busters and start addressing any complains she has had about you. You meet ENs she is willing to allow. You show her that you care about her.

The beauty of a long Plan A for men is that if you stick with it, your wife's account in your love bank will eventually drain and when/if divorce is the plan, you can do so without as much negative emotion.

Ignoring your wife will simply prove to her what she already believes - that you don't care about her.

The 180 is not the same as Plan B. You would go into Plan B if the affair starts to harm your health or if you are starting to hate your wife. Plan B is no contact at all with your wife, except for relevant concerns communicated through an IM of your choosing.

My wife knows how much I love her-she knows that she is everything to me. Anytime we see each other (which isn't often) she also has a lot of warmth/affection for me at the minute.

One day (6 weeks after her affair) we met talked about why things changed in our relationship (we pinpoint our difficulties to a 3 month period) Feb to May this year when I became very withdrawn as a result of work stresses and a serious head injury/skull fracture after an attack whilst on vacation. Prior to this we had 7 years of genuine bliss and everyone described us as the perfect couple-going from everything to nothing in that 3 month period hit us hard. My wife accepts she didn't communicate with me enough and didn't realise something was wrong until it was too late.

She is 100% aware how much I care for her and am willing to work on the marriage but I feel that the overriding fear of how things could go back to being the same (i knlwntey couldn't but could be stronger if we grow individually) is crippling her.

I could be wrong but based on the interactions we have had I feel that this is the case. I have a great relationship with my in laws and they are both broken by this too but thu are aware that if they try to speak with my wife it will close her down further.

It's all very confusing!!!

A robber broke into my home and stole my wife's jewelry case, our camera and a couple of our computers and big screen televisions but I didn't call the police or heck, I didn't even make an insurance claim. I just figured I'd be the bigger person.


I presume you care about your wife a heck of a lot more than I care about my personal property (though my wife sure does like that jewelry a lot). So standing by while being the bigger person WHILE you are being "robbed" of your wife's love and affections is just absurd.

Typically we find here it's not really about being the bigger person but rather a fear of upsetting the wayward wife and the perception that if you anger her you'll be ruining any and all chances at reconciliation that's driving the behavior.

STOP THAT.

The road to reconciliation runs directly through the town of anger and upsettedness. If she gets mad at you while still in contact with OM then you are making progress disturbing and upsetting the affair.

OM just LOVES that you think you are the better person and you are keeping his deeds and behavior a secret. Nothing stopping him from continuing either. Since OM is practically single he's free to chase any skirt in town and as long as yours isn't a hassle he'll continue sitting at the base of that tree. However, when you make messing around and bothering your wife a problem for him...he'll just move on to less troublesome women to conquer.

As far as "convincing her to go "no contact"", have you even asked or did you merely say "I'm ready to try just let me know when" and never discussed the elephant in the room. Certainly she'll say "NO" but that won't stop you from continuing to interfere in her affair until OM or WW gets fired or one of them quits or OM just goes back to his old girlfriend because he's sick of dealing with this crazy woman and her crazy husband.

Disrupt and attack the affair
Demand No Contact
Confront the OM
Expose again
Ask her parents to send their daughter back home where she belongs and you can alternatively apply more pressure on the affair, demonstrate changes and make the marriage a better place to be.

Then, in time, if she continues to refuse to quit her job and go No Contact ....THEN you go dark and into Plan B.

Mr. W

I don't know much about the 180 plan.
I do know that they are against exposure and many people come here after trying the 180 plan and don't save their marriages because they did not expose the affair.
The 180 plan also does not have a plan to restore romantic love after an affair, which is the main focus of Dr. Harley's program.

RUN from using the "180 plan". It is a plan for marriage failure when there is an affair.

Again-thanks for your input.

I really am confused now. I bought some books-divorce busters and divorce remedy. They say that I shouldn't be nasty etc etc (I'm sure you know the drill)-never get angry. This contradicts the information given here at puts me in a position of limbo.

I appreciate everyone's replies-if the affair isn't continuing (as I expect) what approach should I take and if I believe my wife when she says she just can't get her head around how it could be the same and is struggling to get through each day (her mom confirms this)-should I give her time and freedom to work things out?

MB doesn't say to "get nasty;" You are to avoid anger and other love busters. Dr.Harley strongly recommends exposure of an affair, because it shines the light of day on a tragedy. But exposure is a kind act, not a nasty one. It's kind because the person who is having an affair is doing something very destructive and needs accountability. The betrayed spouse needs support.

MB does indeed contradict some of the other resources you mention in other ways, but MB isn't about avoiding divorce or staying married at all costs. Rather, MB is about killing the affair, being the best spouse you can be while being a soft place for the wayward to land, and about creating a passionate, romantic, safe marriage.

Your approach, if you want to save your marriage, is to tell your wife that the marriage will not go back to the way it was - instead, it will be better, that you will eliminate all your love busters, that you will meet her needs, that you will spend time with her. Naturally, the recovery will take both spouses, but you can offer up what YOU have.

Ask your wife to return home and join you in a program of recovery.

Since you have no children, you may choose to avoid recovering, and that's your choice.

I'm not going to recommend those books, but "don't be nasty" and "never get angry" don't contradict any of the advice you are given here. Dealing with a conflict, problem, or even an affair doesn't mean you have to get nasty. It DOES mean you face the problem head on and bring both your Taker and your Giver to the table.

Thanks all

When I reflect on things I feel that I have done a bit of both. I exposed to all her family and my own and I knew that had impact-My Wife and her mom are exceptionally close and her mom has been broken by this because of how much she loves me. She cried for days in her parents house. I also told her 2 best friends (our bridesmaids) and 2 of her work friends who are good friends of mine. I hope this level of exposure was enough to stop things but I remain unsure(I hope saying this doesn't come back to bite me). I hold a slight bit of hope in this area because she hasn't been spending any time away from her parents (work the only exception) and a night or two out.

I have also looked after myself and remained on good terms with her despite what happened. I will wait and see what the next few weeks bring and if I find out the affair continues I will expose further! Starting with her boss who I am friendly with.

You haven't done anything to run off OM!

Don't you see how that would be interpreted as uncaring by any woman?

Your wife's eyes ARE dead. She has no idea how much you love her and no control over her actions.

Every time he sees her he essentially is able to drug her into a duped state with lovebank deposits.

Why have you not exposed him or tried to get him fired?

He sees your wife as an easy piece of [censored] and your reaction is to allow this as the bigger person?

He would be easy to run off. He wants easy. Give him a hard life and the whole problem goes away.

Make no mistake; she will be furious because he is her addiction.

She will stop talking about 'space' and confusion once she is through withdrawal from him.

After that she will wake up and grab the best option.

And this will probably make your wife MAD. Your marriage can survive her anger....but it won't survive continued contact with OM (even if she isn't actively "dating" or having sex with him..seeing him is enough).

Also...someday your wife will find you standing up to her, OM and the affair in a loud aggressive manner sexy and attractive. Much better appearing than the mousey passive approach of "I'm just over here ready to reconcile whenever you are dear....please like me again, please".


Time is of the essence. Everyday you sit there waiting and "standing" for your marriage is another day closer to you losing all your remaining love for her and the marriage simply ending because YOU are done with her and it. Put up a fight and if it works out...great. If it doesn't you'll then have your answer and be able to move on more easily knowing you did (you DID....THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS) all you could to try to save your wife from the fog of infidelity.

Godspeed,

Mr. Wondering

Are you really listening to the vets and reading the resource threads here like Exposure, Plan A, etc.
It is all here, just follow it.
You are doing a half hearted attempt, and using those other methods as worthless in an affair situation.

You need to expose to the OM family and friends.
Post the OM on www.cheaterville.com

NmWNmW

I see you've been running around the internet trying to shop for opinions and varying viewpoints and I wanted to advise you to be careful who you listen to. There are many posters out there that vehemently disagree with the opinions, principles and viewpoints expressed on MB. Mostly because such persons have been removed from our forum for believing their personal opinions constitute solid marriage advice. For example, there's a former poster named MyRev whom I called out for walking out on his first marriage because he claimed his first wife wasn't classy enough for him (I think he probably cheated on her but he won't admit that) but yet his second wife, who went on a cruise ship and cheated on him with a rank stranger and he suspected cheated on him more than just once apparently WAS classy enough for him. He spent a lot of his time here bashing us Betrayed Husband's that choose to fight for our marriages and espoused the benefits, ease and freedoms that comes with simply divorcing your wayward wife (a choice, I'll add...he didn't make...HE stayed with his second wife even after she failed at "No Contact"). He was eventually banned from MB for primarily holding himself out as an expert when on MB there is only truly one expert, Dr. Harley. That's the problem with other forums. You have no idea who the person behind the screen is supposedly attempting to give you logical, solid, helpful advice. Many times they are hurting people dead set on hurting others with lies, misinformation and grudges. Other times they are literally evil and will purposefully mislead you hoping to destroy your marriage.

Take another former banned MB poster as an another example. 2long posted here for something like 10 years. Long before I got here in 2005. Since he was banned he also likes to tell people how ineffective MB is (a program he and his wife never did because she was too busy maintaining contact with her OM for something like 8 years to bother fixing their marriage) and how he thinks everybody should divorce (again, a choice he never made but he flippantly offers as if he's an expert on whether a marriage is worth saving or not). Neither of these men are happily married. They have no idea how to reconcile a marriage. Neither of these men used MB to help end their spouse's affairs nor to rebuild their marriages. How are these men marriage experts at all whose opinions on the subject should matter in the least??? I submit. They don't.

Dr. Harley IS an expert and even though you've been warned this place is supposedly a for profit trap (it's not...in the least), I recommend you CALL Dr. Harley and his wife, Joyce at their radio show where you can speak to a real expert yourself absolutely FREE (unlike the horrible DivorceBusters Coaches you've been paying whom I've never seen nor heard of any of them actually saving a marriage and whose only qualifications seem to include a willingness to pay Ms. Wiener a referral fee for every phone call they generate). Dr Harley is retired. He hasn't had a paying client in YEARS. He shares his knowledge FREE as a benefit to society and as his legacy. If you look around hard enough you'll find almost all his writings, principles and plans scattered about the website again FREE for the taking. If that doesn't convince you, simply take a look around your screen, unlike other websites, please notice that there aren't any adsense google or other business links. This website is a loss leader. Dr. Harley loses money keeping it running every month and year and he does so because saving marriages is his passion and life's work. He doesn't need or want you money but he WILL help you and your marriage to the best of his God given ability.

Also...if you go on the streamed radio show for an anonymous discussion about your situation and questions, he'll even send you a free book. Whichever one you want or need. Free shipping too.

Finally, if I recommend buying one of his books I usually look up the current USED price (usually around $1 or $2) so as to avoid the appearance that I am here somehow trying to line Dr. Harley's pockets. BTW...MyRev and I have already had this argument on MB before he was banned. He knows this place isn't monetized but he uses the argument anyway because he's so resentful his opinions and "expertise" were invalidated here.

Anyway, the point is, IF you want to save your marriage MB is the best plan to help you possibly accomplish that. If it doesn't work or you change your mind in the process, implementing MB will provide you the assurances you DID all you could to save it and her and you'll move on knowing you tried. IMO, other forums will try to trick you into moving on (via things like the 180 plan or GAL) believing that there is nothing you can actually do to speed up the process so you should just sit and wait (LIMBO) and/or simply tricking you into beginning an individual recovery because they believe that's what's best for you (even though you didn't ask for advice that was simply best for you but rather you asked for advice about saving your marriage).

MB is your best shot. Stop dealing and talking to unhappily married and/or unhappily divorced clueless online marriage counselor want-to-be's and start implementing professionally designed and time-tested MB methods for actually saving your marriage. Time is of the essence.

Godspeed,

Mr. Wondering

NmWNmW, you're making me wanna pull my hair out of my skull.

Most guys who mess with married women aren't in it for the drama. They're in it for the easy piece.

Not all, but lots of guys in the OM's position, will knock it off in a hurry one their calculus adds up to the woman being (or becoming), for them, more trouble than she's worth.

I don't see you doing anything to make this OM think that, for him, your wife equals more trouble than she's worth to him.

This guy didn't come on to, and/or respond to come-ons from, your wife, in order to put his job at risk. He probably isn't much interested in looking over his shoulder for the next X number of months or years wondering when his crappy conduct might just catch up with him all at once.

Y'know when I ended my affair with a married woman? It was before lunch on the very same morning that I found out that the other woman's husband was on to us. He hardly had to do anything. All he'd done was hire a P.I. and thereby compile some information -- information that I knew could be used against me and could cost me a lot not just in money but in other things I valued: my reputation, the respect of my children, maybe my safety.

That was all it took to end 10 weeks of really crappy behavior on my part & put me on the road to being able to look at myself (at least sideways) in a mirror again. But the point for you is, I got the hell out of their marriage then & there, even though she begged me to pick her & was prepared to blow apart her own family for that. Because his actions snapped my selfish focus off of me & off of the OW, and reminded me that there were other human beings in the picture who had a passionate interest (not to mention greater standing, by way of more decent conduct) than I had; and that, oh, by the way, she was someone else's wife, and that someone else cared enough to get PO'd at me.

Y'know what your approach says to him (especially the way I guarantee you she's spinning it to him)? It says to him that you're so apathetic that, hey, she's right after all: she deserves another man who'll care enough to be passionate about her and passionate enough to fight for love. I assure you from personal experience that this is exactly the message she has been feeding him, and the prism through which he's been assessing things.

Yet you've been fighting with one hand tied behind your back, and the sad thing is, you've tied it there yourself.

It's time for you to change the game.

You don't need to threaten the guy with physical harm or do anything that'll put you in trouble with the law. But you need him to know from you firsthand, to get, that to you, he's the single person on this earth least deserving of a hassle-free existence of any kind, out of all the 6 billion people on the planet; and that for as long as he's messing with your wife, you've dedicated yourself, as a personal mission, to ensure that his presence in your town will be, by a large margin, the period of his existence that he'll most regret for the rest of his days, be they long or brief.

That doesn't mean you can't continue to be sweet as sugar to your wife. This part is about him, not her. Dude, quit whining to her mom. Go fight for your marriage. Make this guy understand that his life will be a misery as long as he doesn't butt out of yours.

Thanks all-again for your responses. I appreciate the views.

I am 99.9 % sure their affair ended after she told me about it. I say 99.9 because I can't be 100% after what has happened. I have thought ALOT about what you said and what others have and in all honesty I am not willing to bring it into her workplace. If i found out that they were still together i would consider bit it would do nothing to scare him off anyway as he is single. I know factually that she has not spent a single night away from her parents home in 5 months and isn't going out at weekends-she goes to work and then to her parents.

When I have brought up the subject of getting back together her response everytime is that she just can't get her head around how it can work after what has happened and what she did (past tense)-wee talked about why it happened, have always been warm towards each other anytime we have met but she will not shift on her fear/stubbornness. My wife's biggest weakness has always been that when there is a problem she would rather avoid it and hope it goes away than deal with it.

I feel that my best option now is to distance myself from her and let her make up her own mind on things.

For what it's worth I have seen both approaches working first hand-one of my best friends had a girl who h was with for 5 years, living together etc and she had an affair, walked away and left him-he did many of the same things i did at the beginning and had no success. He then made the decision to leave things and distance himself and 9 months later she came back. They tried but he chose to end it because he couldn't get over it. She has been continually trying for 3 years to get back with him unsuccessfully. I also seen the nuclear exposure with some people I work with-it couldn't have got any messier-the guy ended things with his wife as continued his affair as a result of the exposure. The affair lasted a further 6 months, ended and he reunited with his wife.

I just know that putting anymore pressure on my wife at this stage to reconcile will not work.

You didn't hear a word I said, did you?

Where did I ever say anything about pressuring your wife?

I'm talking about turning up the heat on him. (And yes, that means in his workplace.)

I guess you don't need any advice, because you've got it all figured out, though.

I wish you well & good luck.

I read everything you said GloveOil-again, I genuinely appreciate it-you don't have to give me your time and advice.

My question is-why would I up the pressure on him when

1-it will have NO impact-trust me, I know this guy.

2-the likelihood 99.9% certain that they are NOT together (I hope I am not wrong and this comes back to bite me)

So turning up the heat won't do anything aid they aren't together. I don't feel that HE is the issue here now. Again I could be wrong but I have enough evidence to suggest they are not together.

They may or may not be carrying on having sexual relations (like in the supply closet or at lunchtime) but they are still SEEING each other at work. You can not make any progress recovering your marriage while she continues to see (and talk to) OM during her working hours. Maybe they aren't even talking at all ....she's just looking at him and continuing to escape into the fantasy land of "what if's?". It doesn't matter. Contact IS contact and it'll continue to cloud her thinking and "feelings".

I saw you write that exposure would "destroy her"....why do you think that? Are you talking professionally??? I'm not suggesting or recommending limiting exposure but you said you considered talking to her boss that you are friendly with. Could doing just a limited exposure to him help get her out of that office, relocated somewhere else or get OM removed without having to blow it all up like we more fully recommend???



In the alternative, get and give her the book Surviving an Affair and ask her to read it (buy it used...I'm not trying to make money for Dr. Harley). It describes how to rebuild and restore the love to a marriage rocked by infidelity. It gives your wife the path and then, without telling her about your prior posts, ask her to post here on MB and get help. My wife actually started posting her first saying kind of the same thing. She didn't think she could "love" me again. She was told she was mistaken and told how to go about repairing the damage she'd done and how to help US fix things. What has she got to lose? My wife credits this place for fixing her thinking on way more than just what she did in 2005. We both learned a lot.


Feelings Lie. I know you are doing what you think is the best but I kind of compare what you did getting various opinions on various forums to communism. In communism, everyone owns everything so no one actually OWNS anything. When you treat all opinions on the internet as equal, then no opinion carries any weight and it all becomes worthless blather. You end up confused and then just relying on your own instincts. Your own instincts suck. You've never been through this before and you have no idea what you are doing. Sure you've read a few books and talked to few people that have been through the fire but unfortunately all you did was end up confusing yourself; thus, you end up at a gut decision. Your gut is mistaken. There are ACTIONS you can take to MAYBE help this LIMBO you find yourself in.



With all due respect, the 180 plan is PERFECT for a girlfriend that cheats (like your unmarried buddy). In fact, Ms. Davis developed her plan utilizing her experience as a woman that cheated on her boyfriend/fiancee. Marriage is vastly different. You took vows to love your wife "in sickness and in health" and "in good times and bad"....abandoning her in this darkness she finds herself might be all nice for you and, it's true, she MAY turn herself around and give you another chance SOMEDAY; however, it's less effective than ACTIVELY fighting for her and your marriage. My wife and I share our story and recovery with many people in real life and she talks about how strong I was for us and how I fought for her. I can't imagine sitting there and relating a story wherein she'd say "yeah, we are recovered now but while I was having my affair my husband just disappeared and sat back asking for me to come home from time to time and otherwise ignoring me". Another thing that strikes me about your friends story is your fantasizing about the day your wife comes back pining for you begging for reconciliation. It's very likely she will regret this one day. They always do. However, by waiting for that day passively you'll actually most likely end up like your friend unwilling to reconcile with your then begging to reconcile wife. Thus...what kind of "plan" to save your marriage is that???


You are an adult and free to pick and choose whatever you want to do. I urge you to pick a proactive plan such that the decision to save or not save your marriage is undertaken sooner rather than later.

Thank you mr Wondering-I do see a lot of logic in what you are saying. I don't think that speaking with her boss would have the necessary impact-she MAY lose her job as she works in Human Resources but after a lot of consideration I am not willing to do that. I may regret that for the rest of my life. They work in the same building (150 plus people) but don't work in the same office anymore as he changed roles.

I have already bought the book you recommends and will consider giving it to her next time I see her. If she does change her mind I won't make the mistake my friend did.

The NmW NmW stands for No matter what, no matter when. Unfortunately (or fortunately) this was something I said in my wedding vows and for some reason she loved that part of them (subconsciously) and often wrote it on cards-I know she has been rocked by this and is guilty about what she did but I'm glad she hasn't come back through guilt. I know she regularly cried about it in the weeks after-one thing I have in abundance is resilience. I will not let time beat me on this and IF she does come back I will be ready.

Fwiw I did contact Dr Harley a couple of times a while back but haven't heard back-i know they are busy people.

You have no hope of saving your marriage if you refuse to expose a workplace affair. At this point, you are enabling continued contact by refusing to expose.

Dr. Harley's philosophies changed my views on marriage and relationships.
I probably haven;t spent more than $20 on MB materials since learning of Marriage Builders!
It certainly is not a money trap.

Notify the MODS and they can relay it to the Harleys. How long ago did you email them?

If you are open to one more argument about why it's a huge mistake for you to choose DB's weak [censored] divorce avoiding "plan" versus MB's marriage saving program....look no further than MrBond's db story:

His 37 year old nurse wife had a EA affair with a married 61 year old Doctor. I believe they "only" made out at a hospital party sometime btwn Dec, 2007 and March, 2008 (might have been a Christmas party Dec. 2007). He started reading db in March, 2008 and didn't register until June, 2008 (under name stuck808).

He exposes to some family members and wife gets mad and moves out briefly, I think, in 2008. (fuzzy details and I'm not reading all his whining "standing" posts)

She moves back home but Bond can't seem to GAL or 180 properly. He's an understandably mess but darn it, he's "standing" for his marriage.

A year later, wife says she's getting attorney and divorcing him. she moves out AGAIN...October, 2009.

Oct, 2009, Bond, while still married starts dating trying to make wife jealous. He's encouraged to do this as part of the 180 and to attract back his wife. Sandi2, a "former" wayward wife poster cheers him on. He tells his wife he's dating, cough, having an affair and she's HAPPY for him. (Of course, wayward's LOVE when you get into the mud with them and basically confirm cheating is OK when you are unhappy in a marriage. I'm sure the kids were thrilled).

All this time.....wife STILL works with OM though there is presumably no affair (no one even asks him to snoop on this since GAL/180 is so "counterintuitive" whether she is living with Bond AND screwing a 61 year old married doctor at work in the storage closet just isn't his concern). [hmmm...doesn't your wife still work with OM even though the affair is over...supposedly}

March 12, 2010 - Bond finds out that the OM is retiring in 3 weeks and his wife (still separated) is in charge of the retirement party (and calling OM's wife to make plans). Bond gets a little ticked and discusses anonymous exposure (sandi2 poo-poo's this again - why bother now). The person Bond talks to ends up talking to OM and OM with his pastor barges into Bond's work and confronts Bond. Bond FINALLY stands up for himself and verbally puts OM (and the pastor) in their place. OM and pastor apologize to Bond's boss. Bond tells his wife and she's a bit ticked.

By Mid - April 2010, magically AFTER OM retires and leaves the workplace and he's had a bit of exposure (though I still think Bond is a complete jerk for leaving OM's wife in the dark about the affair and letting his separated wife continue in a relationship with OM's wife), his wife starts warming up to him.

May, 2010 - wife buys him an unexpected gift. She's still hesitant and doesn't want to be married but she's now looking him in the eyes and connecting with him

Sometime thereafter they recover - that thread appears to be private or buried somewhere. It doesn't matter. He's now a vet and attributing his, cough, masterful, 2.5 or so years-to-get-to-the-start-of-recovery-from-a-EA-and-make-out-session a DB success.

I AM happy for Bond. I am all for saving marriages and his two children are so blessed that he "stood" by, [kind of] and waited for mom to grow up and wake up. I think this quote by Bond is pretty telling of his thinking on the subject of recovery and, inappropriately, where he'd like to take you with his advice:

Mr. Bond: ...."It's usually not until the [left behind spouse] gets fed up with their (the wayward's) lack of trying and actually become the WAS [walk away spouse - or, more precisely, the cheater], that things start changing".


Compare that to my wife falling "in love" again and having a, yuck, passionate torrid love affair with her old high school boyfriend. The affair entrenched for several months. My wife was done with me and wanted to leave. I wasn't too thrilled with staying married either. The marriage was unhappy for both of us previous to the affair. Affair started in about Feb, 2005. Affair exposed in June, 2005 and affair was over and "no contact" established around July/August, 2005. After some initial anger and wonder why OM dumped her (she didn't know my mother in law and I made him dump her)...and we were actively recovering by September, 2005 and both posting on MB together.

So 2.5 years from an EA versus 6 months from a full blown physical affair. Which timeline do you prefer? BTW, I'm not the only one. There's a thread here somewhere that has MB post after MB post about how fast things turned around in their situations after exposure. Mr B is not the only one on DB that took forever to achieve final resolution. 25yrsmc took from her husband leaving in 2005, registering at DB in April,2006, she filed for separation in in 2006 and the marriage is finally restored August, 2008. THREE YEARS. There was another guy named "anotherstander" that posted from Aug.,2012 till his wife served the divorce on him Feb, 2014 and they divorced March, 2014. 1.5 years of LIMBO. It goes on and on over there.

My own opinion is MWD isn't really wrong, just slow. Given time and distance and left alone...most wayward will eventually at some point come sniffing around trying to recover or not. So if ANYONE sits and waits...eventually they are maybe gonna succeed. That's not a PLAN. That not "success" that's just happenstance. It's just selling sitting and hoping. Even Sandi2 said this to you yesterday, she said "....to help you DETACH and to HOPEFULLY cause her to wonder where she stands with you". Then Sandi asks you to start imagining your life without her and fantasizing about moving on.

Don't get me wrong. MB's Plan B is intended for a similar purpose. To protect you and the love you have for your wife for the day she, most likely, decides she wants to reconcile (albeit we encourage you to completely and formally shut off all contact and we don't encourage married persons to date anyone in the meantime as part of Plan B). However, our Plan B is much more effective because it is preceded by a short (one to six months) proactive exposing PLAN A. Exposure DOES hurry things along (and MrBond, of all people should see his situation easily could have been hurried along with exposure). With exposure, the wayward can no longer put off deciding about their (and your) life to another day, week or month. It makes the affair and/or lingering thoughts and fantasizing about the affair more difficult. It holds the wayward accountable. Everyone knows so I just can't hide anymore and they have to do something.

Another interesting thing, NO ONE regrets it AFTER they do it. It's pretty much only waywards and persons like MrBond who didn't do it that tell you it's a bad idea. Exposure would have hurried Mr.Bond's situation immensely but now that he's "happy" [hopefully] he is vested in the feeling he couldn't have done anything else [because it hurful to him]. Read his thread. It's excruciating reading it. He should have really "STOOD" for his marriage by exposing the OM to OM's wife [poor woman still doesn't know the truth about her life and Bond is a coconspirator in the secret) and should have exposed OM and his wife at work so that either one of them would quit or get fired or, at least, be separated at work (you can bet OM's wife wouldn't have STOOD by and let his nurse wife keep working with her loaded Dr. husband). His situation improved once OM was gone so getting them apart sooner would have saved him probably 2 years of LIMBO. Sure his wife would have been STEAMED. She may have moved out and told him it was OVER. Mine told me that. So did many other married and recovered MB folks on this forum. You see....marriage can survive anger but it's very rare and it takes a VERY VERY long time for it to ever recovery while the waywards are still in contact (even if they aren't doing anything but working together).

I was here on MB is 2008 when Mr. B showed up on DB. His story would've been so much different over here. If only he would have posted here first. He never would have been told cheating was ok (that alone says a lot about that forum)

Last point. Mr. Bond had two little children. Marriages with kids are MUCH more likely to recover and time was on Mr. Bond's side. They even lived together for a year or so. Bond KNEW Om was retiring within 2 years. She was eventually, probably, going to open her love bank to him again as they dated and spent time together as a family and eventually, he got a shot at real recovery. You don't have kids. You don't have 2 years to wait. You don't get to interact her with consistently. You'd be a fool to adopt a slow painful marriage death plan versus nipping this affair in the bud TODAY by exposing your wife and OM at her work and getting one or both of them to quit or be fired. I KNOW considering exposure and doing exposure are VERY hard. I KNOW it's attractive to pick the "standing" plan wherein you just wait for your wife versus FIGHTING for her and engaging in CONFLICT and dealing with her ANGER. It's "counterintuitive" to think angering your wife will improve your situation but what you fail to asses is your situation is already pretty bad.

My wife THANKS ME for exposing her and fighting to bust up the affair. If you recover, your wife will too. If you don't recover, well, you won't give a crap you exposed as you'll be divorced and on to someone better that hopefully won't abuse you like this.

anyway...I hope you read this.

Godspeed,
Mr. Wondering

p.s.- there used to be a whole bunch of pretty good former betrayed spouse's advocating exposure over on DB too. They were all/most all banned by the wayward moderators (and the coaches perhaps that wanted the business) that took over the forum in 2010 as the MWD was convinced for some reason that individual posters advocating exposure, though often effective, was risky for liability purposes (a professional should asses it supposedly) and because she'd rather encourage posters IN PERPETUAL LIMBO to call her DB coaches (hit or miss again...their biggest qualification is their willingness to pay referral fees). WMD's argument doesn't hold water, especially in your situation --- Your inlaws are encouraging and supportive of you (this is not normally the case). Your family sounds like a loving Christian family probably very capable of forgiveness and reconciliation upon repentance. Once your wife is out of that job, she'll get a new one and those people you exposed to won't interfere with your life thereafter, and you guys are young, childless and therefore easily could move. No one is discouraging you from recovering if you want to even post exposure and if exposure doesn't work and you end up divorced...without kids...you won't have to deal with an angry bitter ex-wife over kid exchanges in perpetuity. There's really ZERO risk for you other than making her stark raving mad...but your marriage can survive 'mad' and "mad" is better than her just sitting around her parents house like a zombie.

Conclusion : Get your butt back on MB. Divorce Busting Sucks.

pps - jcred is a forum troublemaker, probably a troll.

NM,
I was banned from DB back in 2010 along with many, many others. DB did not work for me and i was a fool for trying to follow it. Their success rate with affairs has to be single digits or just by chance(which is the same as doing nothing).

There are some very twisted waywards on that site that push their position to justify why they were wayward. Heck i even bought into their crap for awhile. Then there is the whole money making part of it that became evident as well.
That site is poison for dealing with affairs, it has a place for troubled marriages without affairs.

I found MB far too late, you on the other hand have not.
Use MB and give yourself the best chance with the least pain. You can do it.

Thank you for sharing Neb. I felt bad for the posters that got banned. Some of them tried to come over here but they really were set on being anti-establishment having fought the wayward establishment on DB for so long. They weren't DB (they strongly advocated exposure and disputed all the post affair revisionist bull crud like "oh, it wasn't an affair, I NOW realize I was simply a walk away wife" but they weren't truly MB either so getting along might have been a fantasy. Interestingly, we had a very similar internal fight here on MB just about the same time as they did on DB only on MB the wayward wiccan wishy-washy whatever you FEEL like doing "nice" crowd that tried to contact Dr. Harley and take over MB were utterly defeated by the God-fearing MB posters that wanted this place to remain a helpful place where one could discuss Marriage Builders without having to apologize or defend our MB position on every thread they tried to disrupt. We had/have much in common with the banned DB crowd that got banned except we won here and I'm glad you found us and a home for working on your marriage.

I spent a lot of time reading over on DB yesterday and what a mess it is. I can't believe how destructive a supposedly helpful place could be. It's the second worst forum on the web in my opinion (NmW found both of them unfortunately). It's sad but I really don't think the internet is a safe place to seek help for any interpersonal issue or problem as the politically correct liberal nice crowd that thinks and believes anyone can live there life however they want are seemingly the dominant voice on just about every forum you encounter on just about any subject. It's all about inclusion, heated debate, knocking down the persons that believe in black and white/right and wrong, building traffic and monetizing these sites. The category is getting bigger than a retired man like Dr. Harley that just wants to share his ideas, concepts and plans FREE OF CHARGE and build a legacy that hopefully survives LONG after he is gone might be ending. This place should endure for a long time however, I wouldn't expect new places of hope, forgiveness, Christian good-will that view divorce as the destruction of a generation to spring up elsewhere. Instead the category will get over-saturated by online profiteers, referral generators like DB and TAM and slick web-designers who could care less what anyone says or does in real life as long as they pretend to be respectful of ALL opinions as if all opinions are equal and valuable (they aren't...the world is full of idiots with keyboards). It's just be online guru's calling true professionals "guru's" like they are somehow equal.

I feel for NmW and the new betrayed posters on DB and elsewhere that are being led down difficult or impossible paths. It's so obvious to me and others from here in hindsight that it almost feels like these forums are intentionally doing it. Like they are actually EVIL, in disguise. There may be some truth to that. I feel that demons are among us and destroying marriages is one of their primary functions and goals....why wouldn't they target places where people get anonymous help on the internet??? How easy would it be for them to infiltrate and gain authority simply by posting tens of thousands of unhelpful posts and claim veteran status to dispel such wisdom as Sandi, Mr.Bond, Virginia and the others do and have??? On the other hand, I am a nice guy myself that feels surely these people THINK they are being helpful and they are posting with the best intentions and just FOOLS who believe their experiences gave them wisdom versus reading and adopting the positions of a true expert that adopt their own quasi-guru brand of their chosen, often ill-equipped and poorly researched "Author" psuedo-professional or online professional (like Mort Fertel - who is not a counselor at all just an self-proclaimed world renowned 40 year old expert on marriages who promotes inferior material and inferior "coaching" as a money making online scheme).

There IS an attractiveness to it. It's scary angering your wife...especially one you fear you are losing or lost already. My wife posted on MB before I did (I had sent her a link to a thread to discuss with her and she logged in and started posting herself....something that never would have happened on DB because the 180/GAL forbids you from talking about marriage or sending articles or reading stuff about fixing a marriage). I just lurked at MB and I AVOIDED exposure threads. "Nope...not for me." If only I'd have listened (like I'm asking NmWNmW to now) and engaged in a discussion about exposure in my situation I might have sparred myself a couple months of misery. My marriage was going to work out either way. It's obvious to both of us NOW and perhaps it went the way it was supposed to happen by God's hand, however, if I could go back and redo it...I'd have exposed OM immediately upon finding out and within days the affair would have been over maybe even BEFORE it went physical. Today, my wife wishes I had done that to. I failed her and myself waiting to expose and even though that likely helped us recover, as I accepted and I apologized for my part in the events leading up to the affair and my end in the downfall and neglect in our marriage, I still struggle with MY failure to "cherish" my wife as I should have those weeks I knew and remained silent in opposition to scripture and everything Godly. Exposure is not a vengeful vindictive mean act...it's is a loving act of cherishing your spouse and bringing "light" "truth" to your relationship, ONE body and community with her.

Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body. Ephesians 4:25

Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place. Ephesians 6:14

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11New International Version (NIV)

Ms. Davis premise that it backfires is simply untrue. If and when it "fails" for the reasons she attempts to state it only does so with the unrepentant. Nobody recovers or should recover with an unrepentant wayward anyway. What Ms. Davis fails to mention is that ultimately it's the affair and wayward mentality that causes the end of such marriages NOT the truth being shared to others by an abused, hurting, frustrated yet loving betrayed spouse intending to save their spouse from destroying themselves, bring about a resolution and end the abuse they are suffering.


Anyway, I still want to find the exposure success thread but I don't think NmWNmW has even been linked to our good friend MelodyLane's Exposure 101 thread. Here's the link to that: EXPOSURE 101


Godspeed, NmW. Sorry to lay so much on you here. You remain a well respected adult free to make up his own mind and utilize your own discernment. I think your marriage would be better served here but I'm not a professional marriage counselor. Maybe Dr. Harley has emailed you back by now and you're talking FREE OF CHARGE to him and his wife, Joyce about your situation. It would be such a blessing if I/we could save you from those hurtful forums but it's not my marriage at stake anymore (thanks to MB).

Hijack alert-
OMG - I fell for the Mort Fertel B.S. and wasted money and time.
I realized his program will never work with an affair, when i asked him directly on the phone about how to deal with an active affair and a non-participating spouse and he told me to be the better choice.

I was in such pain, I was reading and trying everything.

And the female poster you refer to on DB is toxic, she appears to be a man hater and justifier of all affairs.

I read this on a complaint thread about Mort here somewhere ("Mort Fertel Sucks", I think..find it and bump it with your testimonial experience and save your complaint for posterity hoping others google and don't make the same mistake) but apparently the cover of his book includes a photo of him giving his reader's the finger. You probably own that worthless book. The guy has a business degree. He isn't even a counselor, therapist, psychologist, social worker, etc of any kind. His credentials in this field are merely extensive or authoritative because he said so (that's how "online experts" work...they can be whatever they say they are).

Noticed you on who's online today...

Your DB plan is certainly failing. Let us help you.

Any update???

So sorry about what you are going through, brother. My DH was on the receiving end of adultery by both ex-wives. He offered me a unique male perspective when he told me it would have been less painful for him to endure a beating. I believe him.

Please help NmWNmW by posting Marriage Builders advice. There is to be no further discussion of other programs on this thread.

I agree. Thank you Ariel for bringing things back on topic.

NmWNmW, just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. As you can see, everyone here is passionate about their M's. Don't lose hope or faith. You can do this.