I'm new here, and I need some help. I wasn't sure where to post this, but here goes. My husband of 18 years has told me he doesn't love me anymore and he wants a divorce. He says he is unwilling to try to make our marriage work. He admits to having hidden his unhappiness from me, and says that he knows it's unfair, but he is done. The thought of staying with me causes him to feel almost suicidal. I am devastated. I am very much in love with him, and if I had known he was unhappy I would have absolutely done everything in my power to meet his needs.

I am 100% certain he is not having an affair.


Some background: 12 years ago he had an emotional affair- as it started to become physical he ended it and after about a year he confessed to me. We worked through Dr. Harley's program at that time, but I never dealt with my anger and resentment. A year after his confession, we moved to a new town where I didn't have the support system I had come to depend on. Within the year that we lived in this town, I developed a friendship with a man, and spent a lot of time talking to him about my anger and resentment toward my husband. Eventually I asked my husband to move out, and he stayed with some friends for several weeks. When he went to look at an apartment in our old town, I asked if I could come with him, he said yes, and I never looked back. But we never really dealt with what had happened. Now he tells me that he never believed that I didn't sleep with the other man (I didn't). He says that he made the choice to just give me anything I wanted to get me to stay, and he just kept doing that for the last 10 years. He says I used to take care of him, I haven't in a long time and he's unwilling to let me try now.

He says that all we have in common is our kids, and they are our biggest source of conflict.

Also, in March 2013 we experienced a stillbirth. After that, I suffered from depression, took meds that affected my libido and caused me to gain weight (but I could function) and just as I was weaning off the meds, accidentally got pregnant again. The pregnancy was an anxiety filled time for both of us. I was very uncomfortable physically, and didn't initiate sex at all. He says he suggested it and I blew him off, which I think was times when we couldn't really because of the other kids, but I didn't follow up. I was completely emotionally a mess during the entire pregnancy. He told me he was unhappy two weeks after our daughter was born. (She's healthy and perfect.) Now she is 8 weeks old, and he has agreed to stay in the house until she is 3 months old to help with her. He is an amazing, completely involved dad, and he is friendly with me and seems happier than he has in a while, but he sleeps on the floor and doesn't want to talk about what is going on.

Please tell me there is some hope. I recognize now that I came to expect to get my way all the time, and that is why our conflicts over the kids (discipline, etc) haven't been getting resolved. He agreed to go with me to a counselor only to talk about parenting because we will still have to co-parent. When we were there, he did answer some of my questions, but we left the office both miserable and him more resolved than ever to leave me. I did listen to the things he said about parent in, and I have been implementing the changes he suggested (because he was right, and because I want him to see that I am listening). What else can I do? I am not giving up!

Have you considered using Marriage Builders? It is a great program that really works when you use it. It would resolve all of your problems.

Start reading the information here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695386#Post2695386

If by that you mean going through the books (and doing all of the work, of course) with my husband, I would absolutely do that. He has indicated that he is unwilling to do anything for our marriage. He says he is done. I didn't ask about that specifically.

Sorry, we were posting at the same time. I've read that, but it assumes both parties are willing to try. Any suggestions on getting him to that point? I'm a little scared to ask him again for a chance to work it out. It seems to just strengthen his resolve.

What would it take to keep him in the marriage? Would he come here and talk to us about the problems from his perspective?

What if we could help you guys create a happy, integrated, romantic marriage?

He probably knows that counseling is worthless and doesn't have any hope. Marriage Builders is dramatically different from traditional counseling though. It really does work.

Either that or he is having an affair. How do you know he isn't having an affair?

1) I've seen what he acts like in an affair, and he has not been.
2) he hasn't had any time when I didn't know where he was. He's either at work or home. I know people can be creative, though, so
3) I asked him outright. But I know people lie, so
4) I went through his stuff.

I didn't find a single red flag, so I am convinced.

jkwpurple,

Did you ever recognize that you were in an emotional affair with the OM? And did you ever acknowledge that to your H? Was the OMW ever told about his affair?

God Bless
Gamma

I don't know if he would come here. He has just said over and over that our marriage can't be fixed.

Gamma, no. I didn't recognize it until recently when the counselor called it what it was. There was no omw - his wife had recently left him for another woman, which is where our conversations started.

I don't know now whether to bring it up and apologize and talk about it when I know he doesn't believe me.

Just so you know, this is not convincing at all. What would be convincing is if you spied on him to see what he is doing. Do you have spyware on his phone? What about a GPS on his car?

Don't bring it up. The last thing you need is to bring the unpleasantness of the past into the present.

What are his main complaints about your marriage?

Wow. No spyware. His car is a work car. If he was not going to work, he would have lost his job. It is a government job with strict policies about absences. I will look through his phone tonight when he gets home.

I have seen THOUSANDS of affairs over the years AT WORK. That is typically where affairs occur.

I thought about that - not bring the painful past into the present, but he has already brought it up. When the counselor asked what was going on, he started with the same background information I gave here. And I think he has some resentment about my not acknowledging it. Also, he told me how hurt he was by what I did.


His main complaints? The first thing he said was that he had just been deferring to me in any conflict or big decision, because he didn't want to fight and that would lead to me getting fed up and leaving. That tells me that I am probably being demanding and/or disrespectful. I don't threaten to leave, that is left over from the time 10 years ago.

Not enough sex. But he doesn't want it now.

Kids - specifically discipline - I am too permissive - the kids run the house

And he said that I have put the kids above him - basically that I only care about them and not him. I have done that by defending them when he is getting onto them about something. He's right - I have done that. Not since he pointed it out, though. He's right about all of these things.

I may have missed something. The baby is crying on me as I type here.

Oh, he didn't say this now, but I know that he has a strong need for affection, and I have definitely not been meeting that need recently. The past year and half has been really difficult for both of us, and I dealt with it by turning inward, and he didn't say anything about how that was affecting him until now, and I was too caught up in my own turmoil to realize it. Not that it's an excuse. I still should have noticed, I just didn't.

Would he be willing to stay in the marriage if we could solve all of these problems for him?

I will ask.

jk, I would print out this article and tell him you have a plan to completely resolve the problems and restore the love in your marriage. It is not a waste of time like "counseling' but a real, step by step program that does work. Here is an overview of the plan: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Thank you Melody for helping me find where to start. Wish me luck!

I will for sure!!

jkwpurple,

One thing you can do is offer to take a polygraph about your affair, and while you said that you did not sleep with the OM, did you do other things you did not tell your H about? Kissing is sexual as well.

Your H may have felt like your second choice ever since you asked him to move out in favor of the OM, your lack of affection may confirms it, at least in his mind.

God Bless
Gamma

That did not go well. He listened to me, then said he didn't want to. He doesn't think it can work, and he's been doing this (trying to make it work) a long time.

Also, I looked at his cell phone records. There were a lot of texts to one particular number. I turned on the Verizon message service that lets me see the content of text messages, but it doesn't show past messages and it sent him a text welcoming him to the service. I didn't realize it was going to do that. When he got home I looked at his messages and he had deleted all the messages from that number. I think I may vomit now. I cannot believe that this is happening. I don't know what to do now.

It's very possible that he may be having an affair.
Does he have a smartphone?
There may be spyware that you can secretly install on his phone.
You should also install spyware on any computer and place a GPS unit on his car.

If you can afford a PI, they can do most of this for you and find out if he is having an affair.

Can you sneak some spyware on his phone?

Go to this website and see if you can find out who the cell # belongs to: http://safecaller.com/index.php

If you want to confirm he is having an affair, I can help you. But it sounds like he is emotionally done and these men rarely come back unless they have an epiphany. I do understand you still want to know for sure about a possible affair. Before you go through the technical ways to track, you can reverse the phone number of the OW online. Try intelius.com. If that doesn't work, you can call or have a friend call the number and find a way to make her give you her name. Be sneaky about why you are calling and make sure your friend dials *67 first to be anonymous. I got everything I needed in the middle of the night when he was sleeping. I went on his computer and went to hus email and pushed "forgot password". The code came to his phone which was in the kitchen. I deleted the message after writing it down. I had to set up another password on his email. So, he'll know you hacked in, but who cares? You have to do it regardless. I went through his wallet and car in the middle of the night. If you do all this, you will find things! But like I said before, does it really matter now? You don't trust him. Your gut knows the truth and that's all there is to it.

Well, he admitted it this morning. I had already done a reverse lookup on the number and it is a woman that I think he works with. I looked at his email while he was sleeping and saw he had multiple contacts with 2 different nicknames, and many voice mails from her. I was only able to listen to a couple and they were hangups. This morning I looked at him and said you're lying to me, and he finally said yes, I am. And he confirmed that it is an ongoing pa. And he's not sure he wants to stop. I was actually a little relieved, because he finally told me the truth and because this out of the blue adamant desire to leave and unwillingness to work on the marriage makes sense now.
She is single. When i asked if he would consider breaking it off and working on us for a while, he said he would think about it.

I have never been less happy to be proven wrong. But I am glad that I came here, otherwise I don't know when or even if I would have found out. He said he didn't say anything before because he didn't want that to be the focus. He sees it as a symptom of our problems, not the cause. Which I can agree with. Not letting him off the hook, but recognizing my part. I guess I'm in the wrong forum now.

Why the wrong forum? Listen, he is trying to put all the blame on you. This is typical. Please don't go there! I did the same thing and I came to realize it's just not the way it really is. If he was unhappy, he could have sat you down and told you so, before he had this affair. did he do that? I'm guessing no. Of course you could have probably been a better wife and I'm sure he could have been a better husband. He's in love with love and you won't be able to fight this. He's the problem, not you. He'll try to put it all on you, believe me. Just keep telling him this: "I hear what you are saying, but I don't buy it". Stay calm and just tell him that and don't elaborate. Tell him he is making the biggest mistake of his life and will come to regret it. You probably should go into Plan B until he agrees to commit to working on the marriage.

Why are you talking to him? A man in an affair is not smart enough to hold up a conversation and you can't trust any agreement he gives anyway!

Use your evidence to expose to the people who DONT know, not the one person who does!

Read the thread in Melody Lane's signature and follow it to a tee.

It's scary but you can't possibly get dragged into humiliating debates about who he is going to pick. Exposure makes it clear that a)you don't and never will cover up such behaviour and b) that this 'relationship' is an embarrassment never intended to survive the light of day.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this deeply painful discovery. Now that you know the truth, you need a plan.

Have you read up on Plan A? Here's what you need to do. Expose the affair far and wide to your friends, family, church clergy, and to the OW's friends and family. Exposure is very important part of Plan A. Exposure will put tremendous pressure on the affair. Your H will see the disgust and disappointment of the people in life and see a tiny peek at the reality of what he's doing. It can help to lift the fog, but it's not guaranteed. Exposure also gives you, the betrayed spouse much-needed support. Read up on Exposure here >>>> Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon

In Plan A, eliminate all your love busters. Stay calm and pleasant. Express a willingness to meet his ENs once his affair is over. Demand that he leave the OW.

Dr. Harley recommends no more than 3 weeks of Plan A for a woman, because it's so painful and can not only destroy her health but also makes her less attractive to the WH.

Click "notify" and ask a moderator to move your thread to the Surviving an Affair forum. You will get lots of help.

Jk, I am relieved you found out because we know how to deal with this. Ask the mods to move this to surviving an affair. RIGHT NOW go find the OWs Facebook page and copy all of her contacts into a text doc for safekeeping.

Then go read my exposure thread and start preparing for a massive exposure. It is your best weapon in saving your marriage.

"I have never been less happy to be proven wrong. But I am glad that I came here, otherwise I don't know when or even if I would have found out. He said he didn't say anything before because he didn't want that to be the focus. He sees it as a symptom of our problems, not the cause. Which I can agree with. Not letting him off the hook, but recognizing my part. I guess I'm in the wrong forum now."

Of course he didn't want his affair to be the focus. He wanted to blame YOU for the demise of your marriage. It is like the crackhead who blames his wife for his crack addiction. Marriage problems can be fixed. Adultery will destroy a marriage. If he was sincerely looking to solve the marriage problems he would not have had an affair. An affair does not resolve marriage problems.

I am sorry for your discovery. But as of right now, that changes the order of things.

Yesterday you thought you were dealing with a man who was just damaged beyond repair, and wanted to leave because he was no longer in love. Once that point is reached and someone has made a decision, it is difficult to change.

However today you know that he is actually in an affair fog. And this means there are things you can do to turn this around!

CRITICAL. You need to and I mean absolutely NEED to follow the advice of the vets here. You need to follow a plan. Dr Harley's plan for affairs has helped save thousands of marriages, and it can help you save yours too. But many people in your shoes come here and want to follow their own plan, and they do, and it fails. If you want to turn this around you need to follow Dr Harley's plan.

The first step is to expose this affair far and wide, without any warning to your BH or his OW. DO NOT in any way warn him that you are going to do this. Meanwhile, while you are preparing for a very immediate and full exposure, you will want to be in Plan A. Think of this as showing him the kind of woman he CAN be married to, and the kind of marriage he can have, if he chooses to stay and recover the marriage. Be the better choice. And realize that if he refuses to end the affair and you move on to a Plan B of no contact, this will be his last impression of you and you want it to be a good one.

Update here often. The advice you can get here at this critical time is invaluable.

I don't have any evidence. Just proof that he has texted and talked to her a lot. I'm a sahm of 4 kids, we have zero extra money to spend on getting proof. I guess I'm hoping he will have some sort of realization on his own, now that I know. I know that's not very likely.

Ok, either she's not on facebook or she has me blocked. I can get someone to get the contacts for me.

I knew that the advice here would be to expose, but I am having trouble with that. I'm sure I'm not the first person to feel squeamish about it. Not only scared, but I don't want to be the person who is airing dirty laundry everywhere. Does that make sense? Talk to me about this, please.

You have full proof of the affair, HIS CONFESSION. You can safely expose the affair wide and far.

Keeping it a secret is to enable the affair. We can't help you If you won't expose it. Please go read Mtttt thread on exposure,

We are trying to help you save your marriage; not help you avoid squeamishness.

purple;

I, too, was "squeamish" about exposure. And I resisted doing it. And NOT doing it, well and fully, only made things worse... MUCH worse.

If I have one thing I would change... one thing ... it would be that I would have done a more thorough job of exposure, right away. It is the one thing that would have made such a difference ending in my fWH's A.

With exposure, you are telling the truth, not "airing dirty laundry." Besides, it is not YOUR dirty laundry... it is a consequence of the A, which your H and the OW chose; you did not.

Take back your power. Expose. Follow Melody's advice EXACTLY.

You can do it.

Ok. I hear you. I have a friend looking for her on facebook now.

Do that. Or create a fake profile to get the contacts.


You are not the first one to not want to expose. Nobody really looks forward to exposure. But at that venture there is a split. A select few face their fear and do a mass exposure, and deal a blow to the affair that is unparalleled, giving them the BEST chance at saving their marriage. The rest choose to not expose, and they pay the price. Not only does the affair go on and the chance of marital reconciliation decrease, but eventually it leads to divorce. The BS is left with no support, keeping a secret that was not even their doing, moving into divorce with nobody even knowing the real reason for their marital demise. Meanwhile, the AP's frolic in their secret until they leave their spouses and spin story about how they met 'after' the marriage was over, and who would know differently?

EVEN IF your husband came to his senses and decided to come back to the marriage, you have a long road of recovery ahead. You cannot go through recovery without support, continuing to hide a lie.

There is no downside to exposure.

Did you read the Exposure 101 thread? You want to do a full exposure, not just to a few select people. There are exposure letters to help you do it in a way that does not seem vindictive, but rather are seeking support for your marriage.

Yes, I have been reading it, and you're right, it doesn't sound vindictive. It feels vindictive, a little, but I'll have to get over it.

And you suggest exposure far and wide even if he willingly ends it? Why would that be necessary? I have every intention of telling my support people (and not just one or two people) but I am not seeing why I would call his mom after he ends it to tell on him.

Of course, this is just a fantasy exercise because if he doesn't act very quickly it will already be done.

My friend tried to find her on Facebook. I only have a name and phone number. My friend looked by name and found one possible woman but she has her friends list blocked.

Jkwpurple,

Also try www.linkedin.com, www.veromi.com, etc.

Do a text search in Google "Nancy Cheater" Workplace

Do a search on her email pattern at your WHs workplace for example.... if your WHs email is bob-smith@workplace.com OW might be Nancy-cheater@workplace.com etc.

OW can and will be found.

Please post OW to www.cheaterville.com

God Bless
Gamma

Question for everyone: I know exposing the affair is the right thing to do, but for me, it sort of back fired. My husband and the OW bonded even more and felt it was "them against the world" syndrome. That's often what happens, I was told. So this can be a consequence of exposure. I would still do it, however. I was reluctant to hurt his family and my kids. As a matter of fact, I told Dr. Harley I was afraid my son will go into a major depression and I couldn't afford that. Dr. Harley still insisted I expose it. I felt the same way as jkwpurple. I didn't see the point of exposure and ruining my husband's reputation in the community and the respect of his family, if we could work things out. My husband eventually left me, and I'm sorry I didn't expose earlier.

**edit**

Exposing wide and far will help kill the fantasy. The more people who know the more people to hold him accountable. So yes, it should be exposed even if he does end the affair, however, that is a moot point because he told you today he wasn't ending it.

Keep in mind, exposure is THERAPEUTIC. It is the first step towards recovery.

Exposure is designed to put pressure on the affair. It can possibly have the effect of "bonding" the affair partners together in "It's you and me against the world" moment, but an affair is a fantasy, an illusion. Eventually, the scales fall off as they start love-busting - in most cases.

In any case, Dr. Harley recommends exposure so the light of day can shine on a tragic situation and all friends and family will see it for what it is - a dreadful tragedy for the family.

Exposure is also designed so that the betrayed spouse can have some much-needed support in a very painful time. He likens it to sharing a cancer diagnosis with our friends and family. An affair is just as much a tragedy and deeply painful.

Dr. Harley's plan does not always work in ending the affair, but it's the best plan, of all the ways out there, for the greatest success in blowing up the affair.

A reminder to posters to help the thread starter with Marriage Builders concepts. If you can't do that, then please refrain from posting. Don't disrupt this thread with personal philosophies.

Fyi, almost EVERY recovered marriage on this forum attributes it to exposure. Dr Harley calls it the most important first step towards recovery. You CANNOT afford to delay or skip this step. The longer you wait, the more entrenched the affair becomes.

I was one of those reluctant to expose. I finally did and while it did not immediately end the affair, I do believe it made it rocky. I had the OW texting me how horrible I was for involving my kids and her elderly parents in something they had no business. My WH, was livid that my kids were aware and that I had involved OW's family. I contacted the OWH and we compared notes. That still did not put an end to the affair but it opened up, so he called me back one day and I busted my WH and the OW, while her husband was on the phone. Exposure got the ball rolling. My WH also told me everything yours said. And I am a sahm and have a baby, too... He tried to blame it all on me.

I am really having a hard time finding her online. Hubby rarely posts on Facebook because he's a police officer and his job could be in jeapardy from even a seemingly benign post. She seems to have chosen not to have an online presence at all. The only thing I found was a commendation on their work fb page with her picture. I could probably guess at her work email address, but not sure what to do with that. She is single. Her cell has an out of state area code, so it seems her family is probably out of state but I don't know how to find out.

Use her picture and expose her on Cheaterville

If you can access the phone bill online it should list every text message. It only shows the numbers, whether they were sent or received, and it often says where each number is from. This and my WW's OM's name are how I located his family. I probably sent some FB messages to a few people that didn't know who OM was, but they only cost a dollar to send. I definitely got some of OM's family as well.
I hope you find what you need.

I know I'm really tired but I'm missing something here. How did you find the family with those pieces of information? I have that.

Also, a couple of you have mentioned cheaterville. What is the purpose of putting her on there?

I found MB at a time when exposure was not suggested, not sure exactly why. To this day, I regret not having done a proper exposure far and wide because XH was able to spin a story to everyone that he divorced me because I neglected him. He was also able to convince himself that his adultery was a consequence of my behavior. He even showed up at my mother's funeral as the 'bereaved son in law'. My lovely church going neighbors still give me a wide berth thanks to stories that he spun them about how the divorce was my fault and that I stole the house from him.

Of course he claimed to have dumped the OW as soon as he was discovered but three months later he was back seeing her again. The other part of MB 's adultery protection (extraordinary precautions) is hard to enforce without the support of exposure.

How does plan a/ plan b work when WH already plans to leave? He originally told me he wanted a divorce but agreed to stay 2 months to help with our newborn until she was settled into a manageable routine. There's about a month left on that timeline, and I just discovered he's having an affair.

I haven't had a job outside the home in over 4 years. We have 4 kids age 2mos (and exclusively breastfed) to 13 years. I homeschool the older ones. When WH first said he wanted a divorce he said he wanted to support us so I could continue homeschooling, but that was before I discovered the affair. How am I supposed to financially separate like is suggested for plan a/b if I have no means of supporting myself?

The OW works with him. If I expose at work, he will likely lose his job and possibly his career. We are entirely dependent on his check. I can't do it.

I had a couple of questions about plan a/plan b and I posted them separately - is it better to keep everything to this one thread?

Yes, please keep to one thread; it is easier for posters to help you.

When the affair destroys your marriage and leads to divorce what will you do?

Your husband can find a new job, but the ongoing contact with his OW will either lead to divorce or, if you stick around under these conditions, your deteriorating health.

First expose to friends and family, clergy. Expose the OW on cheaterville as suggested. Demand that your H end contact with the OW. If he does not leave the job in thirty days, expose to his supervisors. Don't tell him about the exposure first, though.

Exposure is your best chance at killing the affair. If you don't expose and your H stays in contact with the OW, the affair will continue. Continued contact will result in an entrenched affair.

Dr Harley only recommends for women to do Plan A for 3 weeks, because it is so taxing on them mentally and physically. So you have time to Plan A while he is home.

I know being financially dependent on him adds to your fears. But the reality is that if you do NOT expose, if you do NOT fight this affair, it will become more entrenched and will lead to divorce, and you will be a single parent having to support your kids anyway.

The fact that he said he will continue to support you so that your life in divorce remains exactly the same minus him, is ridiculous. He is not going to do that. You do not marry the same person you divorce, and you will be divorcing a wayward man in a wayward fog. The fog can make the most amazing person turn into a selfish and manipulative alien you don't recognize. And, he will have his new OW adding her opinion, and I am guessing she will NOT tell him to keep sending his paychecks to you so you can continue to not work and homeschool your kids.

You need to face reality here. No matter how this plays out, your life is NOT going to be the same tomorrow as it was yesterday. The greatest chance of restoring your family is to expose far and wide and kill this affair.

Is there a way to delete the other topics or combine them? Do I need to notify a moderator?

Thank you. I know this, but I didn't want to think it. I really needed it to be spelled out. You're right.

There are many MANY SAHM's who have come to this forum with the same fear. Some have had to go into Plan B, or have gone through divorce. There are laws to protect you from being totally cut off financially. But yes, eventually you will need to also find a way to supplement your income as well, probably stop homeschooling and get a job. However, if you just let nature take its course and sit by and do nothing while your WH has an affair and leaves for the OW, what do you think will happen then? The same thing, you will have to eventually change your lifestyle to accommodate this.

If your main focus is keeping you WH as the breadwinner here, even then exposure is the only option you have to work towards that goal.

And I just found this in Dr Harley's "when to expose" article.

"While I unhesitatingly recommend exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children and the lover's spouse, I'm not so quick to suggest exposing it to an employer. That's because such exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim by the unfaithful spouse's lover. Or it might trigger the outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult for them to find another job.

So in those cases I usually advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse he or she will expose the affair to the employer in a month if the unfaithful spouse is still working there, giving him or her time to make a graceful exit from the job to another. Even if a new job cannot be found in a month, I recommend waiting no longer to inform the employer, unless the unfaithful spouse has already resigned."

So what does that tell you to do?

He will have to continue to support you.

The only way you can save your marriage is if he leaves that job. You have no marriage if he stays there and will be divorced. So your only hope is to tell him he has 30 days to leave that job or you will expose to HR at his workplace. That gives him 30 days to leave gracefully.

And if he won't leave the job in 30 days, you are going to be divorced anyway so it doesn't matter. If you have to go through a divorce where he is still with the OW, it will be a living hell, so you want to get him out of there at all costs. You don't want your children to have to be partially raised by the OW.

It's been a year since I went into plan B. I have had the time to reflect. While I was in Plan A, I was in constant turmoil and unable to see things realistically. I, too, believed my husband was honorable and would do the right thing. Why would I think differently when he was a loyal respectful wonderful man for over 40 years I knew him? Believe us, when we say these same great men turn into monsters...they become vicious and go into protection mode. I know it's a long shot, but maybe you should ask his family for a little financial support. After all, they created the monster. If you do Plan A, make sure you go out and have fun...even if you are pretending. Get a sitter or friend to watch the kids at night, dress up in a beautiful outfit, and go to a movie. Just tell him you're having dinner with friends. Be mysterious. It will make him crazy. It will also give him a picture of you looking your best should you have to go to plan B. Dr Harley wants him to remember you looking great and being a sweet great woman. Your husband needs to know he is making a huge mistake. The ball has to go back in your court.

p.s. if he doesn't get out of that job, you will be headed to divorce and will be competing with the OW for his paycheck. Your best chance lies in exposing at work and getting him fired. But give him the 30 day option. If he refuses, then expose immediately.

He hasn't said anything else to me about us or her since he said he would "think about" cutting her loose and recommitting to me. He did make an appointment for us to see the counselor together "because it is a good place to hash things out" and one for him by himself. I imagine this means that he has decided to continue with the ow and doesn't want a scene at home with the kids around. My plan: not fall apart. No scene. Tell him he's making the biggest mistake of his life. I think he will want to discuss terms of separation, so I will do that calmly.

Then expose and plan a.

What am I leaving out?

Thank God I found this forum when I did. I would be falling apart right now. You guys have shown me that I will make it, no matter what. I WILL MAKE IT. Eventually.

Purple:I understand you are breastfeeding so it may be difficult, but can you at least go out for 2 hours at night? Can you get someone to watch the kids? Dr Harley often suggests women need to get their education and have a career so they are not put in a position of no financial means of support. Do you need career advice? Listen to Dr Harley's radio show yesterday. A woman has a similar situation and Dr Harley insists she go back to school immediately. First, it will show your husband you are moving in a path of independence. Secondly, it will be good for you. You will be putting your husband off track and drive him nuts.

Everyone: Isn't Plan A only done if husband agrees to stop seeing the OW? jkwpurple's husband is not saying that at all. What does she do in this case? Isn't Plan A going to keep her in a bad environment?

Whatever you do, don't go to "counseling." He will use the counselor to convince you that the marriage is over and validate his wayward fog. The counselor will then serve as a divorce facilitator and you will be screwed. It will be harder to save this. The individual counselor will help him attain his personal desires, which at the moment happens to be an AFFAIR.


Your plan TODAY should be to expose his affair wide and far. This needs to be done as soon as possible. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to save this.

When you are finished, you should sit him down and tell him he has 30 days to leave the job or you will expose to HR and his commander. If he won't agree to leave the job, then don't wait the 30 days, do it immediately. [don't forewarn him]

Additionally, you should tell him you want to have a happy, romantic marriage with him. You have a plan to repair your marriage but that can't happen until he leaves the job and ends ALL contact with the OW.

He will try to tell you he will end his affair but stay at the job to get you off his track. Don't fall for that. As long as he works at the same place, the affair will be active.

Can you do all this?

Melody, don't you agree that she should show him a new independent side? I.E. getting herself on board with an education, going out with friends and having him watch the kids, etc.

your thoughts?

i agree....no counselor. They will make things worse. Furthermore, the husband will either use the counselor to his advantage, or lie.

No, I don't think she should be showing independence at all. That would be a disaster and is completely against MB concepts. I don't have time to answer your questions and help her. Can you please read the MB material first and then post?

Please listen to the clips in here Beware of Bad Counselors

**edit**

moderator's note: please familiarize yourself with MB principles and stop disrupting this thread! Any questions, email me at MBDenali@gmail.com

He is not going to talk to you about his secret affair. Even though he has confessed, you are not his go to person with information about his affair.


He is absolutely right about one thing, counseling will be a place to 'hash things out.' I went to two separate counselors and we hashed things out. I left emotionally upset and withdrawn and my husband left upset and withdrawn. The goal of MB is to focus on today and tomorrow, NOT rehash all of the things you have done in the past. You have both done things to hurt each other and create a marriage that was ripe for affairs. But right now it is the AFFAIR that is causing destruction in your marriage. The affair is what has to be dealt with before you can focus on changing your behaviors for a better future.


Not falling apart or making a scene is a great plan! You want to talk to him as a calm confident woman, confidence is far more attractive than falling apart! But you do not want to educate him, or discuss separation with him. Tell him you will only discuss marriage, that if he commits to ending his affair you have a plan on how to create the marriage of his dreams. Tell him you will talk marriage, not separation or divorce.

Purple will have plenty of time to get an education and focus on her career when she is in Plan B. Right now she should be focusing on exposure and killing this affair, followed by a short but stellar Plan A.

The goal of Plan A is not to show your spouse you can be independent or to drive him nuts. It is to be as attractive an option to him as possible, and show him the kind of marriage he could be walking away from. It is not attractive to go out with friends and make him wonder where you are, or to show IB or drive him nuts. These actions will drive him toward the OW, not toward you.

Plan A is done as a means to convince the WS to end their affair. Once it is ended you can move into recovery. Plan A is not easy or healthy in the long run, which is why Dr Harley recommends women only be in Plan A for 3 weeks, or they will suffer emotional and physical trauma.

You have a paragraph about counseling and rehashing and discussing separation. FOLLOWED by 'then expose and Plan A.'

What you are leaving out is that EXPOSURE should be your first and only goal right now, not counseling, rehashing, or discussing separation. Killing this affair is the #1 goal, is it not?

So how are you coming on exposure?

From what I've heard the homeschool community is a fantastically supportive community. When you expose you WILL upset your husband (your marriage can survive him being upset but it won't survive a continuing and more deeply entrenched affair) it COULD very well result in him playing games with money as a matter of punishing you and/or manipulating you to STOP messing with his addiction/affair. This is typically short lived and ill-advised (should you end up in a court asking for temporary orders of support with 4 kids...the judge won't look favorably upon your husband). Therefore, I recommend you prepare for such scenario by including in your exposure any and all persons that can support you. You're likely to be pleasantly surprised at the support you receive. There are a lot of secret betrayed spouses out there that know exactly what you are going through and will help you. Because these things are kept secret so often you'll never know exactly who they are unless you share your crisis with a broad net of person.

There is HOPE in TRUTH. Don't be embarrassed. You have nothing to be ashamed off and most everyone will be supportive of your WH should he change his ways and redeem himself.

You may even call his parents and say "I am not asking you to choose sides, though I hope you will, it's not necessary. Your son has cut me and your grandchildren off financially for the time being and I could really use your help".

Godspeed,

Mr. W

The purpose is exposure.

So you guys suggest cancelling the appt? Tell him that whatever he wants to say he just needs to say it?

Yes. Killing the affair. How am I coming? I am terrified. And I can't find any of ow family or friends. I know her name (first, middle initial, last), her cell number and carrier, and I found a picture of her on the precinct's Facebook page. Should I just go ahead with our friends and family?

And if he says ok, I'm leaving, I just let him go without making arrangements for kids or money? Not being snarky - genuinely asking.

I would not go to counseling. When there is an affair, counseling can be - and usually is - a DISASTER.

I would go ahead and expose using the suggestions on my exposure thread. And, do not stop searching for the OW on Facebook. Don't give up. Try and look up other employees on Facebook and see if she is a friend to them. Be creative and keep looking. You need to find her!

You cannot stop him from leaving. All you say is that you will expect him to continue supporting the family. He HAS to continue supporting you. If he stops, you can file for an emergency support order and the judge will make mincemeat of him.

You will get through this!

Have you used any online search engines, I know some require a small fee but I think the cost is totally worth it. With her name and phone number you should be able to look up additional information that way, an address, next of kin, etc. I know if I do a free white pages search I can always find some info, like city and state and next of kin (with links on how to get more detailed info, usually for a cost, and I have never had to use that).

You have to be a bulldog about this.

Exposing OW is critical. That's what will cause trouble in the A.

The typical OW is a stalker. Most BWs need to get rid of her quick and get rid of her good.

How in the world do you tell your kids something like this? Do I give him the opportunity to be with us as I tell them?

I have realized that his good friends are work friends. I think I need to wait on that to give him the chance to quit rather than be fired. But family and a couple of friends I know I can tell now.

No, you tell the kids alone. Give them the full and complete facts along with the OW's name. Do this ALONE. You don't need your husband there disputing your word. Just give them all the facts and tell them you are doing what you can to save your marriage.


Those good friends should be at the TOP of the list because they are in a great position to influence your husband. Don't do a trickle exposure, it is like taking a pea shooter to a gun fight.

And don't give up on finding the OW's family and friend. Do not give up until you have found them.

Do you have the OW's picture? Can you get it off the internet?

I have it.

Posting on cheaterville IS therapeutic. I was reluctant but finally did it, I felt so much better after I did. Yeah, little vindictive but oh well...

I don't recommend you telling your kids in a rage like I did but they need to know. My 2 asked if they knew this person, he refused to say but I insisted and my 9yr old guessed real quick as it was someone we were all close with. I know that them knowing put pressure on the situation too as they both told my husband that they would never agree to visit with him if he broke our family for her.

I also thought about counseling but after the advice here I cut that out. Follow the advice here, if you want a chance to save your marriage. I know it is hard and sometimes feels like it will backfire but at this point breaking up the affair is essential

I'm not sure which are the good friends and I'm not sure who, if told, would have to report himvl and cause him to lose his job. He has a couple of good friends who are not from work I know I can contact.

That is why it is essential for you to expose to everyone and anyone who has even the slightest potential of being influential in supporting your marriage and holding your Husband accountable. You never know who or where you will get the most assistance and support from.

Also, it Must be done all at once to Everyone. Trickling out the facts just gives your Husband the opportunity to spin you out to be some overly jealous psycho controlling Wife and he and OW are "Just Friends".

LTL

I just told my kids. It was awful. No turning back on the exposure now.

I spoke to WH on the phone, and he told me he did not intend to end it. He refused to tell me her name, then I asked if it was someone he works with and he said no. I realize I probably shouldn't have asked, but I can't take it back now. I guess I really thought he would confirm her name. The only evidence I have of who she is comes from lots of phone calls and texts on the bill. I turned on the Verizon messaged where I can see all of his texts now, but he hasn't called or texted that number since Monday evening hen I turned it on.

You realize that your husband had an affair with a coworker, with no consideration for the fact that he would lose his job. He is continuing that affair, and planning to leave you for her. That chance that coworkers already know, or will find out in the near future, and this will impact his job there ANYWAY are high.

It is not your job to protect their dirty little secret, and protect him from obvious consequences to his A with a coworker. It is your job to look out for your marriage and family by ending this affair. Your marriage can survive him getting fired, and having to find a new job. It cannot survive this affair.

Stop worrying about who is going to tell who and how it will impact his employment, your WH and OW are not worried about that, or they wouldn't be carrying on an affair!

You are doing fine, jk, but stay away from asking such questions. A better route is to tell him you know and that way you avoid that dance. You know who it is and don't need his admission.

Good job on telling the kids. That is a very hard one. Please get your exposures done TODAY and then start devoting all your time to finding the OW's family and friends.

Great job! One of the hardest steps to take I'm sure. You are being very brave and facing this head on.


You are right, he is not your friend right now, or your confidant. He is not going to give you information, he is protecting HER and not you. Exposure has a tendency of making AP's throw each other under the bus real quick though.

And this is your answer to the question of whether he will leave the job in 30 days and end his affair. He won't. If you don't believe me, call him right now and ask. I believe you can safely assume he won't leave and go forward with your workplace exposure.

You are worried about him losing his job, but the truth is your marriage is over if he keeps that job. Your only hope is getting him out of there and away from the OW.

I know you're right. But it's hard. He'll get over being mad about me telling, but if I tell in a way that costs him his career I don't see him getting over that. I want to kill the affair. I don't want to kill him or any chance we have.

Also, I am still feeling uncertain about who the ow is. A little. Well, I guess I'm reluctant to name her without proof.

Then call him right now and ask him if he will leave within 30 days, otherwise you will expose his affair with "SALLY SLUT" to HR. Tell him you already know who it is. If he says what is your proof, just tell him that is private but you will be contacting HR.

If he does not leave that career, you have NO CHANCE at all. Your marriage is over.

And if he loses his job, it will be over HIS AFFAIR. That is not your fault. You didn't force him to have an affair. Most employers do not CHOOSE to employ liars and cheaters.

He is not going to have anything to get over, because you are going to be divorced!

Telling his workplace that he is having a workplace affair is not 'killing him' and exposing is not going to kill any chance you have. This AFFAIR is going to kill any chance you have.

You exposing is not costing him his career, his AFFAIR is costing him his career.

You understand you are putting the cart before the horse here. You are worrying about how he is going to be able to move past you exposing to his workplace, while you are recovering your marriage. But there will BE no recovering your marriage if you don't expose and kill this affair! You will be divorced.

You do know who it is. When you confronted him originally, he confessed. Now he has had time to think up some gas lighting and is refusing to tell you who it is with, but you already know who it is with.

When I confronted him, I asked if there was someone else. He said no. I told him he was lying to me, and he admitted that he was. I confronted him because I saw lots of texts and calls to one number, even in the middle of the night, but he has friends who work in the middle of the night, too.

I see now. I do know who it is.

This needs to be done TODAY

jkwpurple,

One other point is that a workplace is an ideal place to keep an affair invisible and functioning for a long time. This may be even more true in Police departments where they are loyal to and cover for each other.

At one of my prior jobs there were two long term affair couples that I knew of.

One of the OM had gotten the OW employment at the past few places he had worked, even getting OW training at the expense of more competent workers. During this backburner affair the OM maintained his family, the OW divorced her H and re-married but not to the OM, and both ate alot of cake.

There's even terms for this "work husband" and "work wife".

God Bless
Gamma

Ok, I made the calls and sent messages. He just sent me a text saying "I guess I need to line up a place to stay pretty quickly. I'll grab some personal items after work. . How do I respond?? I wasn't trying to push him out quicker!

I did not send a message to his boss, just the few friends I knew of at work.

I didn't tell him yet about 30 days before I tell your boss.

Good job!! Don't respond, just get all your exposures done TODAY. Don't leave any stragglers. Have you spoken to his parents, sibs, family and friends? Will they call him?


When did you plan on telling him this? And this offer is only good *IF* he agrees to leave the job now and end his affair. It is a good will gesture to give him an opportunity to leave gracefully. If he won't agree to that, there is no reason to wait 30 days.

And I want to keep emphasizing that the greatest danger is if he KEEPS that job, because you have no chance if he stays there. None.

i expect him to refuse to leave the job but tell you he has ended the affair. That will NOT suffice.

And remember, when you speak to him, don't ask him WHO the affair is with, tell him you know it is "__ insert OW name___."

I did tell both of our families and his friends. I don't think I missed people.

Not respond? At all? And when he comes home and grabs his stuff and goes, then what? How do I tell him about 30 days? Should I call him now and tell him I'm still holding out hope but he needs to end the affair AND he needs to leave his job?

He is still at work now.

I think that is a great idea. Tell him if he will agree to leave his job, [put in his notice NOW] end his affair , and work on the marriage you will give him 30 days before you expose to the workplace authorities if he is still there.

I want to make sure you are not confused here. It doesn't mean he has 30 days to decide to do it. You only give him the 30 days if he is going to put in his notice NOW, end his affair and commit to the marriage.

Ok, thank you for clarifying.

You mean great idea to call him?

I want to tell him he doesn't need to rush away from the house and kids.

I think it is a great idea to call him and tell him about the 30 days.

HOWEVER, if he won't end his affair, you shouldn't try to keep him there because you will have to go into Plan B in 3 weeks anyway if he won't end his affair. Let him know that if he won't end his affair and leave that job within 30 days, that you agree it is a good idea for him for move out.

But...plan a?

This is so hard. I'm so scared.

Who did you expose to on OW's side?

HOWEVER, if he won't end his affair, you shouldn't try to keep him there because you will have to go into Plan B in 3 weeks anyway if he won't end his affair. Let him know that if he won't end his affair and leave that job within 30 days, that you agree it is a good idea for him for move out.

Brainhurts, I cannot find anyone for her! She doesn't have a facebook account, she's not married. I have a name and phone number. That's all.

I understand completely. It is very scary, but you have to stick to your guns and walk through the scary stuff now in order to have the best chance at recovery.

jk, call your husband first and then start searching for the OW. We can help you find her family.

What do you think about him putting in for a transfer? If he quits, we are completely financially done. All of us. A transfer would put him in a different building in a different part of town.

That would work as long as he will NEVER cross her path again. That means no meetings, no Christmas parties, no training, no nothing.

And if he doesn't quit, YOU ARE DONE.

You have to stop thinking short term. You are DONE if he keeps that job because you get divorced. You are headed to divorce right now.

Then you will be competing with the OW and her future children for his pay.

You are thinking with desperation about his paycheck next week. And I understand. But it is clouding your thinking.

I am thinking of longterm how you will lose 70% of that paycheck in 6 months if you don't stop this divorce train. Keeping that job means you end up divorced and in competition with another woman for his income.

He can get another job. You will have a damn hard time finding a new husband to support you and all those kids.

jkwpurple: I will be happy to help you find the OW's friends and family. I'm very good at investigation. I did it for a living. We can all help you, if you need the help.

OH MY GOODNESS!!! I called. He said he will put in for the transfer and asked if I really think this will save our marriage. I told him yes, this, sone recovery, and some hard work. He's not quite enthusiastic yet, but I am seeing a glimmer of hope!

And he asked if he could come home tonight!

Did you say yes? And will he end his affair NOW?

If he puts in for a transfer, I would ask to ask his boss to put him on opposing shifts from the OW until he can be moved.

You can get a good background check (online) through a phone # and it will release relatives and close associates with their names, addresses and phone #s. In my case, my kids and I wrote letters to the OW and everyone in her family, telling her to back off and let us work on the marriage.

jk, please take her up on this offer!! You need to find the OW's family and friends so you can run that skank off...

Good job on the exposure!

The glimmer of hope you are seeing is because of exposure. It is because the fantasy bubble is bursting. Now you will see the beauty of exposure working its course.

I told him the only thing that would work for me is a clean break and him not seeing her at all for any reason. He said his boss was off tonight so he couldn't ask about the transfer right now.

I did tell him he didn't need to find someplace else to sleep tonight.

When I did this it was the turning point of the conversation. He went from defensive to just listening. Thank you for the advice.

He would need to agree to write the No Contact Letter and show it to you. You would then mail it.
The language of the letter should be what is printed in Surviving an Affair:

I missed this earlier - yes, I would love some help.

And where am I now? Plan a and telling him to write that letter? And actually get transferred or quit.

Have you tried spokeo? Or Googled her name and number?

I'm also second guessing having told the kids.

Have you seen this? Exposing to Children

BrainHurts, I had not seen that thread. Thank you.

You did the right thing exposing to your children. Giving them false explanations for the tension in their home causes them confusion and they often blame themselves.

People who don't tell the children don't do so only because they have no earthly idea what they are doing or how to do it.

A friend of mine took his father to task recently because he only found out about his mother's affair which happened when he was five the week before his wedding. He'd spent his entire life listening to his mother badmouthing the marriage and it had been confusing.

The fathers only explanation was that he didn't know what to say.

I completely agree. My oldest son was blaming himself thinking all the tension was about his behavior/grades and just simply him being the cause of tension. Once he knew what was going on, he became my biggest supporter. My husband was not too happy that they KNOW but it was what was best for my children, they now can make sense of the craziness that was going on in my house.

He is calling apartments tgis morning. He said I tried to turn the kids against him.

Listen,,he isnt serious about ending the affair and recovery.
He wants to brush this under the rug and carry on as usual.
Just try to be polite to him.
Simply say : :I am willing to work with you to create a loving marriage but you must first end your affair and agree to a program of recovery.

If he complains about exposure to the kids, simply say "I will not lie to cover up your adultery"

He's calling around for apartments because he's not serious about recovery of the marriage. Let him look and do your utmost to stay calm and pleasant.

The children have a right to know what's going on in their own family and the reason for all the tension. It is not vindictive to let the children know. If your H doesn't want his children to know he's having an affair, he shouldn't have an affair. A person who is SERIOUS about recovery wouldn't let telling the truth about the affair stop him.

While your H vacillates back and forth, put pressure on the affair by full exposure and finding out all you can about the OW. Expose to as many OW's contacts as you can find.

If he's not going to transfer or give his notice now, then this is the time to expose to his boss/HR.

He said he knows it's all part of my "master plan". I said what do you mean? And he said I don't know. You just have a plan. He's so mad.

The MB plan for an affair is the best one out there. There's a plan for recovery for the marriage after an affair AND a plan for personal recovery for the betrayed spouse if the affair continues.

Keep yourself focused on the goal - to kill the affair with the entire arsenal you have at your disposal, with all your logic. Your H is running on emotion and has no plan, making reactive decisions.

Locate the info for the OW and expose to her contacts. If your H does not agree today to quit his job or transfer, notify his boss/HR.

If you need to, please see a doctor for ADs to see you through this very stressful time.

Off course he is fuming, let him fume. Do everything you can to expose the OW to her family and friends.... it does wonders!

thank you. Working on it. I will find that information today.not giving up.

I just went through all this and I was so reluctant to expose, then to follow most of the advice. I am a SAHM with an infant, too. I am far from recovery but hopefully heading that way. My husband actually left and came back too many times until I told him to leave. It was the most peaceful days of no contact and guess what, must have been horrible for him cause he came back, willing to do whatever I asked but that is because the affair was finally over.

Your WH's actions, his choice to have an affair, is what will change your kids perception of him, not you telling them the truth.

I assume you both strive to raise decent kids with a strong moral compass, and a sense of right and wrong. Well then if they frown on someone who is doing immoral things, as well as things that are hurting them, then you are doing a good job! Our character IS what we do, and his character is not a shining example of 'good dad' right now, that is how they are going to see him. That has absolutely nothing to do with you being honest with them, but everything to do with his own actions.

If he refers to your 'master plan' you can assure him that the only plan you have is to fight for your marriage and family.

Mad is good. Mad means you have made an impact.

When you exposed to his friends from work, did you hear back from any of them? If you have any known allies there, could you use them to get info on OW, since she also works there?

Stick with it, jk!! You have the affair on the ropes and if you can expose to her family and to the workplace you will kill this affair.


The fact that he is looking for an apartment means he is not serious. And you should expose to his workplace.

"Yes they are heartbroken about your affair"
"I'm sorry your affair is embarrassing you. We love you"
"They love you and are very worried about you"

She has ended it. He has put in for a transfer, and requested a shift change in the meantime. He has not committed to work with me.

He said that just because it's ended doesn't mean that he automatically wants to reconcile. I told him I know that, but staying in the affair automatically means we don't.

Good answer, but I would say you will actually need to see him serious about the recovery before even contemplating it.

It sounds like the A has gone underground and he is behaving like you're an option... Because you still are.

A man who is still going 'eeny meeny miny mo' about the marriage still has a mistress.

Tell him recovery won't start until he has written the NC letter and changed all contact details.

That crack about not wanting to recover was supposed to make you dissolve into neediness and allow wiggle room for the A to continue.

Give him the conditions checklist and tell him he either does it, convincing you of his enthusiasm to do so, or he needs to find a place to stay.

The affair has not ended, I assure you. You need to go full speed ahead and expose the affair to her side. Did you find her contact info?

I can assure you this is true... I did not listen and it took another whole month before the affair ended and that only happened after I went to a parking lot and sat in my car with my 3 kids for 3 hours waiting for my WH and OW to come back to his parked work truck... My kids witness me lose my control completely and engage in a fight, something I have never done before in my life but let me assure you it was not in vain, That was the turning point were their affair ended. I think that her seeing my kids want to get into it with her did open her eyes at the amount of damage their affair was causing. The OW was someone my kids and I knew all too well. Would I take this route again? I don't think I'd fight again, much less with my kids witnessing it. I did talk to my kids and explain, that is not the way to solve a conflict. Anyway, my point is that I was told over and over again by Melody and others that my husband was not done with the affair but I refused to believe them or follow any advice they gave me. The affair has ended, I kind of went into plan B but after it ended because he was acting like a jerk and picking up fights, I was too worried of where he'd stay and how he'd support us and himself. Until I had enough of his emotional abuse and told him to leave. I was taking a risk as I am a SAHM but since at that point I knew OWH was taking precautions, too. I knew he wouldn't leave the kids and I hanging financially, at least not immediately. Sure enough he was homeless from Thursday night til this past Tuesday... He came home with his tail between the legs. Things are slowly progressing, still lots of work to do but nothing would be possible without breaking up the affair 100%.

I can't find her. All I have found is her past employer. I know what town she came from and when she started working here.

I did a spokeo and got a man's name, different last name, in her old hometown, but no address and no other info.

Most PIs can do a quick background check for $300-350 and that would be invaluable to you. This information might be the key to killing this affair.

When I talked to him today, he was concerned about me getting her fired. I told him that ending the affair and saving my family is my number one priority, and I spelled out that I meant absolutely no contact between them, even verbal. I want to visit their precinct with all four kids and a plate of cookies for the officers.

What do you think of me contacting her? Would that be a bad idea?

Is he planning on leaving that job within 30 days? If not, you should move ahead NOW and expose them at work.

You have no hope as long as they work at the same place. None.

I would contact her. YES. And you should go up to his workplace, and visit him with your kids in tow and drop in on her. But more importantly, you MUST find her family and you have to get him out of that job.

]

Did you spell out that he has to LEAVE THAT JOB?

Yes. He's not quitting the job but taking a different shift until he can be transferred to a different location.

The shifts don't overlap at all.

No guarantee, but you could try signing up temporarily with freephonetracer dot com. They can give you a name and address of the person who is the account holder of a cell phone IF it is not a throwaway phone.

Can you find any of her relatives in her old town? Have you looked in whitepages.com?

I have been all through white pages

What would you say? I can think of lots of things, most of them not very productive.

There's some in here for BWs also.

"I encourage BHs to Confront OM" Dr Harley

Did you try this?

Tell her that there is no future for her with your husband because she will be eternally hated by your children and the inlaws for her part in breaking up your marriage. Tell her she will be NEVER be accepted by the family. Let her know that if this goes to divorce you will have her subpoenaed to give sworn testimony about her adultery with your husband. With that will come "discovery" when they subpoena her email and phone records. Just let her know that hell is coming her way!!

I tried it. Same deal as spokeo. A man's name with a different last name, city which is where she used to live, no address or other names.

I also tried calling her. Several times. No answer. I'll try again tomorrow.

Did you do a background check on the man's name or check Facebook? It could be an ex or family member. This could help you find her family.

I looked for him, too.

I ended up leaving her a message. I really wanted to hear her voice, but it is probably just as well that I didn't.

WH is so upset that I told the kids. He isn't so mad about the other people I told, but he thinks I made him the enemy. That I turned the kids against him. And I know that his actions did that, and I know they would have found out anyway, but the fact that I told them is killing him. I'm afraid I went too far. Tell me I did the right thing.

jk,

Please...every time he complains simply say "I will not lie to my children to cover up your adultery"

"yes the children are devastated that you are placing an adulterous relationship above our family"

This is your script:


Your children are suffering as a direct result of his affair. You did the right thing; children usually figure it out anyway. If they don't figure it out, they still know something is wrong and make up reasons that often put the blame on themselves.

You did right in telling them. Your H is embarrassed and angry. He SHOULD be embarrassed; he did a dreadful thing which resulted in one of the most painful and awful things he could have done to you...and to his children.

Don't cave. And don't apologize for telling the truth.

Ok, that's exactly what I said. And that they know he still loves them, even though he screwed up.
No pun intended.

Wonders never cease. OW just sent me a text. Let me know she got my message. She understands. It is over. Please leave her alone.

WH went into work early to talk to his supervisor about how soon he can switch shifts.

UMM, I would not rely on that text.
Many times, the wayward will send a text they intercept to throw off exposure.
I would try to speak with her personally

Don't say he loves them.
Thus far his actions indicate that he loves another woman more than his wife and family.

What do you mean by this? I left her a voicemail when they were not at work together and she responded before he went into work.

My second guessing with the kids centers on my 11yo daughter. She has had a rocky relationship with him already, long before this, and I fear she won't ever be able to forgive him. I know he is the one that hurt her, but still. I don't want any of my kids to hate their dad. And I'm afraid her venom will affect my chance of reconciliation.

Purple, your daughter will probably eventually forgive him IF he offers just compensation to you and to his family. Her anger at his affair is completely justified. He did a dreadful destructive thing that is deserving of anger.

A wayward who is serious about recovery will not allow the justified pain of a child hinder his desire or efforts to make things right. The way he will make things right is to make himself a much much better man, a man who DESERVES his daughter's love and admiration, rather than a lying weasel. If he works with you on a complete marriage recovery, she will most likely have a better relationship with him AND will understand what needs to happen to protect her own marriage someday.

Please stop second-guessing this very important part of exposure.

Going too far is having an affair and abandoning your family for some skank. Going too far is lying to kids to cover up your crime against them. Telling your kids the truth about what he did is the right thing to do.

Dont' let him guilt you for doing the right thing.

Quit trying to control her. My father was a serial cheater and it wrecked our relationship. The only one who has the power to save that relationship is your cheater husband. I am sorry he chose to wreck his relationships wiht his kids.

Nothing will stop your husabnd from reconciliation if he is serious. He will have to grow some balls and face her venom if he wants to save his marriage.

MY MOTHER WRECKED OUR RELATIONSHIP BY LYING TO ME ABOUT MY DAD'S AFFAIRS! I deeply resent - TO THIS DAY - her silence about his affairs.

Your husband has wrecked his relationship with his kids through his selfish and thoughtless behavior. Don't you ruin your relationship too by lying to them about him.

Wow. She understands, please leave her alone.

I know, right? I laughed out loud when I read that.

Whenever fear has me in its icy grip I ask myself what I would do if I were not afraid.

Is it possible you would not lie to your daughter if you were not afraid? Allow her to have her own reaction and to share that with her father? Allow him to rise to that challenge and become an actual good dad instead of one who pretends beneath a web of lies?

How do you expect him to become honest and fearless and learn these lessons if you don't trust him to prove himself to his daughter? If you don't trust her to forgive him when he's done enough?

When is it enough? When she says so. If it isn't enough he has to try harder.

You set the bar way too low.

Yes.

Children get very angry at their wayward parent.

The parent betrayed them so very deeply. At their very core.

It is awful to deal with.

It is the reality though. Not revealing important information makes the child conjecture all sorts of CRAZY stuff.

Facts help.

I have three children. They were differing ages when I exposed their father's affair to them. They all reacted as any person would in the situation. BUT, they knew what they were dealing with in regards to their parents/the people who created the family for them.

No one wishes this sorrowful legacy on their children. It sucks.

Children deserve the truth to deal with the mess.

If you ever do get to a point where you and your spouse attempt to rebuild the marriage..............it will be your choice and not your child's. They can give you input but it will be your choice. (Not even your H's in the end!)

This morning: he told me he has a couple of leads on apartments for mid-November. (Not where kids could hear.). I told him I still have hope for us. He just looked at me. I said do you think I'm crazy for that? He said it's not what he expected. I said you thought I would hate you. He said yes. I told him I'm hurt. But I don't hate you.

Daughter asked me yesterday if daddy's not with his girlfriend anymore is there any reason he has to leave? When he told me about the apt I told him that I still have hope for us, and I don't want him to leave our marriage, and the kids don't want him to leave. He said he doesn't believe daughter doesn't. So I told him what she asked. He said that's not the reason. I said I know there were problems in our marriage, or this wouldn't have happened. But I think it affects your willingness to work with me. He said well I guess we'll see. I asked him what that meant, and he said we'll see if it was affecting my willingness.


A bit later, I told him I needed to ask again, is it over. He looked me in the eye and said it's over.
Me: you understand why I have a hard time believing you.
Him: yes. Then he started to cry and said it's really over and it's killing me
Me: wow. That hurts. I knew you loved her, or you wouldn't be willing to leave your kids. But this hurts.

I was trying not to cry. Y'all, he was crying like he did when our baby was stillborn. Like he did when his pappy died. I knew he would have to grieve her, but knowing it and seeing it are two different things.

I asked him if he still saw her at work. More tears. No - she hasn't come in to work since I outed them. But when she does I will have to physically see her, but she's off my district. No - I haven't cried at work yet, but I'm sure I will.

I wanted to comfort him and castrate him at the same time.

I told him I still don't hate you.

Oh, and while he was crying, he said he doesn't want me to do anything to her. I said I'm not out for vengeance.

The affair is still active, I assure you. He fully plans on seeing her at work and has told you that. I would plan on going into Plan B and exposing to the head of HR.

Were you able to find her family?

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair so you can start planning for Plan B?

jk, you need to take control of this situation, because his affair is still active and he is going to keep you around as an option if you don't take back control.

Go to him and tell him you are giving him 30 days to leave that job or you will expose to HR. Let him know if he does not end his affair and commit to the marriage, that this will lead to a divorce. If he can't meet those conditions, he needs to move out.

He needs to commit to this:

1. leave his job within 30 days
2. end all contact with that slut NOW, sending her a no contact letter
3. commit to work on the marriage

If he won't do those things, he needs to make plans to move out.

Yes. It is active.
He is crying because you are messing around with his affair.
He is looking for an apartment to continue his affair less abated by your constant presence (and interference).

He has already gotten his shift changed. This takes effect next week, but there are a couple of shifts left before that happens. That is when he would see her. That would happen if he gave notice, too.

He won't commit right now. Isn't it possible that he needs a little time for the fog to clear?

And he is already making plans to move out. How does telling him I want him to go help?

I have ordered the book. I should have it Wednesday.

Changing shifts will not solve the problem. Leaving that job will. The fog will not clear.

It helps in that he must understand he has to go if he will not meet your conditions. He needs to move out if he won't meet your conditions. As it now, he does not even KNOW you have any conditions and will just continue on his affair.

How will the fog clear if he is still in the bar every day drinking? Does an alcoholic sober up that way?

You need to start taking action before this gets worse. The problem will not be solved sitting by doing nothing. Every passing day the affair gets more and more entrenched. The more time that goes by, the harder this will be to save.

Changing shifts means he won't ever cross paths with her at work. Why doesn't that solve the problem?

He can see her anytime at work. Changing shifts will not solve the problem. They will work at the same place, have meetings together, see each other in the hallways, attend the same company parties. Every time he sees her [her car, her name] will put him back to day 1 of withdrawal.

Changing shifts will help until he leaves in 30 days, but it is not the solution. I thought you knew this?

I just had an opportunity to read this entire thread in the last couple of days.

I have some major concerns, purple, that you do not seem to understand that the affair is still ON.

Your WH is moving out for one reason only - to continue his affair.

Do you understand this?

Changing shifts is a bunch of nonsense that my WH threw at me when professing to be invested in our marriage. He swore on a stack of bibles that they would not be working together blah blah.

The affair was still ON.

They cannot work together in the same workplace without endangering your M, not for one day.

jk, the longer you wait to take action, the less likely you are to save your marriage. Like Susie said, he is moving out so he can continue his affair without your interference.

If you don't take decisive action about his job and the recovery of your marriage NOW, it will be very hard to save this when he moves in with the OW.

The whole "I'm changing shifts and I swear the affair is over" but still moving out makes me certain of one thing....

that he wants you to distract you in hopes that it will get you to stop exposing this affair.

And it seems to be working!

You cannot quit now. You need to wrap this up ASAP. Workplace and OW's family!!

You are trying to move on to the business of recovering your M and making nice with your WH...but you haven't completed the mission of killing this affair dead, purple.

You can't move to Step 2 before you have finished Step 1.

Please listen!

This tear filled back and forth with your WH is a big fat nothing, purple. You know that, right?

Waywards lie, lie and then lie some more. They even lie when they don't need to and tears are NOT a sign of sincerity. I have fallen for that one a few times myself!

Oh. Oh. I was thinking that because he won't see her (not ever in the building at the same time - meetings are separate - they don't do company parties) that he would be separate enough. I didn't think about her name. Or even just the building itself.

I still want to believe what he tells me. I I still don't want to hurt him. I see how ridiculous that is. And I see that I haven't given him conditions. And I see that he loves her and values her above even his children. All of a sudden, I see it all.

As a rule, I hate ultimatums or threats, and conflict, and that is why I have balked at telling him he has to quit or be exposed. I see now that is the only way.

He CAN go see her anytime at work. I don't care what he tells you. He is a liar who will tell you anything. They work at the SAME PLACE. Would you send an alcoholic into the bar and feel safe just because he told you he would not drink?

Your husband has a serious addiction to the OW. He can go see her anytime he is tempted.


You got it! It is the ONLY WAY.

Help me understand what comes next, please. And forgive me, I'm certain you all have already been very clear. I think I have been in a fog of my own.

I tell him in no uncertain terms he must leave that job. (Transfer to another precinct? That would take him to a different building, different part of town, every precinct is its own entity. Am missing something? Would this work?)

Otherwise, I need to go to hr to make this happen. (Is committing to me part of the condition for leaving hr out of it?)
And that I understand he may need to leave town or the state to find employment, and if he is willing to commit to me, that I will come with him because I value our marriage over having family and friends close by.
If he cannot commit to me, then he needs to move out now.

Do I have this right?

Technically, you aren't making a threat or demand.
You are making a request and telling him that this is what it will take for you to remain in the marriage.
For example, when I buy gas the attendant says it is $3 a gallon, He does not threaten or make demands, He simply tells me what is needed for him to enter into a contract to sell gas to me.

Of course, he cares more about his affair partner than his own family.

It feels like it because a) I'm talking about involving his boss if he doesn't. The gas station attendant doesn't tell me he will call my boss if I choose not to get gas from him at $3 a gallon. And b) because he has already said he doesn't want to be in the marriage anymore. When I go to the gas station attendant, I want the gas.


Either way, if this is what I have to do to save my marriage, I am going to do it. Do I have the rest right? I'm going to talk to him now.

purple;

He is still not your husband. He is deep in the fog, and will be for a good while after he finally goes "NO CONTACT" with the OW.

Which means he is likely to lie, EVEN TO HIMSELF.

You are putting too much stock in what he says. I understand your temptation to do this, because I did this myself. I learned the hard way (False Recovery) that you just can not believe him at this point.

Just think of him as an alien inhabiting your husband's body. He's still in there somewhere, but won't be available to you or his family until the fog clears.

Thank you. That helps.

What about the rest? Do I have it right?

Purple,

Just tell him that he has thirty days to leave his job. The idea is that the thirty days gives him time to leave gracefully. Sometimes a wayward trying to recover his marriage will reveal to HR that he is having a workplace affair and they will work with him and help with a transfer. Don't threaten to expose to his workplace; keep that to yourself as a part of your strategy to kill/put pressure on the affair.

Also, leave out the "commit to the marriage" part. He would need to agree to your conditions, which would be to never see the OW again, and that would mean leaving his job, and possibly moving to keep away from her, a No Contact letter written by him to the OW and mailed by you, and an agreement to join you in a program of recovery.

You tell your WH that he needs to leave that job now. Don't threaten to go to HR or anything, just know that if he won't leave the job, you DO go to HR.

If his response is that he won't leave the job, then go directly to HR.

He can't stay at that job. It is too much of a trigger for him (even if OW leaves the job.)

In my opinion, he isn't going to leave, and you'll be contacting HR. So prepare for that.

But joining in recovery doesn't necessarily mean long term commitment to me, right?

Thoughts about a transfer vs quitting?

YES. Because if he doesn't commit to the marriage, you have more reason to expose to HR.



YES

Furthermore, purple, my now-formerly WH exposes his own infidelity to his co-workers, because he wants them to know why it is crucial for me to travel with him.

This is a big change in attitude from when he was still in the fog; when he promised he would get a transfer, that he had stopped his A. He lasted exactly one minute, once he was back in the same office with OW. One minute. And then the A was back full-on, and further underground.

Your WH is a long way from finished with his A.

Let him know that you will be exposing the affair to HR if he is not GONE in 30 days. Even if that means he has to just quit.

jk, please don't get lost in the weeds here. The goal is leaving the job. And committing to recovery is the goal.

So do I tell him I'm going to hr or not???

Ultimately, joining you in a recovery of the marriage means a marriage that is better, MUCH better, and safer than the pre-A marriage. You will both be so much more fulfilled in such a marriage. Listen, my H practically begged me to do (yet another) ceremony of marriage vows. Yuck. Last thing I wanted was a bunch of words. What I wanted was ACTION: Extraordinary precautions for life, mutual meeting of ENs, no love busters. What we have now is a deeply romantic, passionate, and safe marriage; it's so much more than it ever was. I don't think about him having a long-term commitment to me. He has promised to care for me in a way he had never before done and followed it up with actions. Do you see?

If your H can get a transfer to a completely different building, that might work, but Dr. Harley often STRONGLY recommends a couple move after an affair takes place with a person who also lives nearby. Running into the person is just too easy. Also, the place is going to be full of triggers for you both. So moving is a much better and safer solution, but a transfer to another precinct might work. He can't stay in the current workplace, though.

Of course!

Moving is the IDEAL as longwayfromhome said. At the very least he can get moved to a different location for now. But it really must be far away. Moving 3 blocks away won't be a solution. You need to be an hour + away.

Got it

What happened with finding OW's family??

I think he is terrified of you exposing to her family.

I agree. I'm sorry but his crying is just a gaslighting technique to keep you from causing trouble in his affair.

Have you read the gaslighting thread?

He is terrified that I will get her fired. He told me she values her career above everything else. (I could hear the pain in his voice when he said it. I take it that means she values it over him. Which must suck when you're about to walk away from your kids for her.). I told him I value our marriage and family above everything else.

Re: finding OWs family: I have exhausted my resources and myself. I can't afford a pi (literally do not have funds) I have my dad on it now. He is much more resourceful than I am.

She threw her career and her reputation away by having a workplace affair. She must be dumber than a post.

Had the conversation with him. Had him take a break from work and meet me in a parking lot so we'd be away from kids. It was rough. I'll post about it later when kids are in bed.

For now, please someone tell me success stories from waywards who say they don't even want it to work out with you.

There are many here. You just need to stick to your plans to ensure you have the best chance possible. Getting to the OW's parents and family is an important key.

That is the opposite of how I feel right now. I just had to keep telling myself that if I let this go the way he wants, we're through. There's no way to make it worse than that.

I realized today that he wasn't asking hopefully if I thought this would save our marriage. He was saying I am ridiculous for thinking it will.

I am scared that his most recent impression of me is not "good, loving wife" it is "crazy, vindictive b*tch".

Can you please summarize the meeting? If you don't go along with his affair, he will portray you as a "crazy, vindictive, [censored]." So we are not concerned that he has that view; it is an expectation.

We are concerned that you are doing every thing to kill this affair and save your marriage. We are trying to help you save your marriage.

Our goal is to save your marriage, and I get the feeling that your goal is to avoid his anger at all cost.

Good for you for getting your dad involved. Besides searching for info about skanko, I hope he will talk to your H and encourage him to end his affair.

When you are talking with your H, keep in mind you are talking to a foggy addict. He's not going to make a lot of sense. He's not thinking logically. Don't take anything he says seriously right now. Always be calm and pleasant with him. Avoid arguing.

I am sorry but I would not be excited about anything he says unless there is some action to back it up.

What about his plans to get an apartment? Is he willing to write skank a NC letter?

Tell me success stories of people who have had to call hr. Y'all, he's facing harassment charges if I call. He'll be ruined.

And I KNOW he brought it on himself, but if I didn't care about him I would have just let him go. I care what happens to him, even if he does leave me.

I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Until you have exposed to OW family and gotten him out of that workplace, you have to assume the affair is still on, purple. And cannot put much hope into anything that he SAYS.

Your best bet is to tell your H that you are going to call HR and that if you do, he is likely to lose his job. That's why he needs to give notice and leave the job.

Dr. Harley gives the best guidance on to help save a marriage when someone is having an affair. Every step doesn't work for every person, but the overall plan can be very successful. It's your best plan for now. If your H doesn't leave his job, call HR. He knows the consequences of a workplace affair and chose it anyway.

Then he needs to leave the job before they find out. AND THEY WILL FIND OUT! How about summarizing the discussion you had with him?

Covering up his reckless and irresponsible behavior is not a demonstration of "love." Helping him hide his crimes harms you, him and your children. Even so, you are offering him an OUT. If he doesn't want to be exposed at work for his reckless and irresponsible behavior, he can resign or transfer.

I will tell you about a success story at my previous job. The betrayed wife of our Region VP called every extension in our office and said "My husband, RW, is having an affair with DM. Please call Human Resources and have them call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX." Our Region VP was escorted off the premises the next day by an armed security guard and the Director of Human Resources. The affair ended THAT DAY and I know for a fact that this couple recovered and is still together 15 years later.

That lady had some serious balls. And that is what it takes to save a marriage. Being timid and weak will not save a marriage.

Ok, meeting summary.

I told him that after talking to him this morning, I realized he is still going to see her all the time even if he changes shifts. He said no I won't (of course). I said you will see her in the office, in the parking lot, and he was looking at me like I had lost it. I said in your head. Everything there makes you think of her. It's full of triggers. He said there's no difference between the office and anywhere else. I didn't see her there, I saw her out on calls. (My thoughts: bs, and if it is true, then all the more reason for leaving job and town.) I said if you were addicted to crack, don't you think the place where you scored it would be a trigger? This is when he started getting angry, and I realized I was trying to reason with someone who's beyond reason. I told him I want to believe you when you say it's over and when you say you won't see her on third shift, and I want to believe that you're not moving to an apartment so she can visit you there (got another wth look at that) but you have lied and lied and lied to me. He started with "i didn't want to tell you because my leaving isn't about her" and I cut him off and said for months before you told me you were leaving you lied about where you were and what you were doing and who you were with. He said I get it, I'm a liar. I told him he's the most honest person I have ever known (this is true- current circumstances excepted of course.)

I said you need to get out of that building. Either transfer or quit. He said he's looking for positions in other departments (that would be a quick transfer) but there aren't any open right now. I said then I think you need to quit. And you need to choose to end it, and you need to write her a letter telling her it's over and let me mail it. And you need to commit to a recovery program. He said a recovery program?!? You want me to go into a program?? I said I don't mean you need to check into a place, I mean you need to go through recovery with me. He said I don't even want to make it work with you. I told him I didn't expect him to commit to long term right now, but to going through a program of recovery until he's through the withdrawal from her.

He didn't say anything for a while. Then He said I hate third shift. Hate it. I said I know. He said But I am switching. And now you have all these other demands?! Where are you coming up with this?? I didn't say anything. He said this sounds crazy! I had a little bit if an outburst here. Told him that I thought f***ing his subordinate while his pregnant wife was at home worrying that he was dead somewhere was crazy to me.
Then I got myself back under control. I told him that maybe if he tells his boss what is going on, and he doesn't have to tell who the A is with, his boss can get him out of there quickly. Otherwise, he's going to have to quit. And I realize that may mean moving to a different city or state to find work. And if he is willing to commit to recovery then I will go with him, because I value our marriage over being close to my family and friends.
He said and you think THIS is the way to do it?! I said I think it's my only chance. He got called and had to get back to work. I told him I really don't want to call your boss, but I will. You need to make your decision quickly.

Somebody said I seem like I'm trying to avoid his anger. He doesn't get angry easily. Never has. I remember him being really angry with me only a handful of times. This is the angriest I have ever seen hi . Ever. And the fact that it's directed at me is breaking my heart even more. At least before I found out about the A, when he was just leaving me for no reason, he still didn't hate me. He still hung out and chatted with me. He still held the baby so I could eat. Believe me, I know that this was all going to end anyway, but having him look at me like that just really hurt.

I really was very calm and reasonable and even the whole time, except that one comment.

My dad is advising me not to get him fired because then if we divorce I won't get any alimony or child support. I am terrified.

You did great! And I am very proud of you for recognizing that you can't reason with him. He is still very foggy and is very much still invested in his affair. He is moving out to have his affair without your interference. That is the plan for now.

So your job is to be a broken record and tell him he has to leave that job. He made a good point when he said he didn't see her in the building but out on the job. I would follow that up with: we have to move out of this town.

But I don't see him ending his affair anytime soon. He has no intention of stopping it. He will go along with a few things to keep you from interfering with his affair.

I would plan on getting separated from him and start thinking of ways you can do that.

What do you mean by this? I'm just exhausted. You'll have to spell it out for me.

You will get divorced if he doesn't leave the job. So take your pick right now: the job or the marriage. If you choose the job, then just file for divorce right now because there is nothing we can do for you.

And keep in mind, when you get divorced, you will be competing with the OW for his salary. It will no longer be just yourself and your children.

I know your dad means well, but he has no experience saving marriages.

He is not going to end his affair.

IF you get divorced, you will be fighting with a fogged out wayward and his OW for every scrap you get. It will not be pretty. That is your future if you choose the job over your marriage.

Definitely invested. I see that.


Another precinct would put him in a completely different area with different roads, etc. But still. It's hard because I know how much he loves this job. Really. I feel like I am hurting him back. I know he feels like I am and he thinks it's revenge.

Your ONLY chance of saving this marriage is blowing up the affair. You blow up the affair by exposing it at work and to the OW's family and friends.

Your husband can get another job. You won't be able to replace your husband and the father of your children so easily.

Please don't speak fog to us. If the falling down drunk feels it is "hurtful" and "vengeful" to take his booze away, do you give him his booze?

It is thinking like this that will sink your marriage. I don't feel you are very committed to saving your marriage. I think you are in the habit of enabling his bad behavior. And that has to stop.

Feelings are not truth, and it is time to man up and put your irrational feelings aside. You have a marriage to save.

jkwpurple: I had eye surgery, so I just got back on. If you want me to help you find the OW's family I'll be happy to try. I need her name and phone #, city, State, where she works, or any other info you have. What is the best way to get me this info? Perhaps you can message me on this board? I'm not sure how to do it but I'd like to help if I can.

If you and Purple notify the moderators, you can exchange email addresses.

For your info, my husband begged me not to go to HR to get the OW fired. He threatened me, saying he would be forced to support her if it was our fault she got fired. I got scared and didn't report her. Well, that backfired on me! The OW got another job and he left me anyway. Bottom line: If I got her fired, she would never have gotten that better job and a good recommendation. If my husband supported her it would have looked badly for him in divorce court which would have given me a leg up.

how do we contact the moderator? can purple just send me a private message on this board?

Click the "Notify" button at the bottom right of the post box.

Ouch. But you're right. I'm all in. Balls strapped on. Just notified mods to share email with wenang.

Email address of WHs superior obtained. I told WH he would need to decide quickly, I should have put a time limit on it.

Can someone link the gaslighting thread?

I would give him until tomorrow and then start the exposure. You will want to expose formally to the Director of HR along with the supervisor of OW and your H. Have you read the posts on workplace exposure on the exposure thread?

And I want to emphasize that he has to agree to all of your conditions and commit to recovery of the marriage. If he agrees to just transfer but still plans on moving out, then you should go ahead and expose.

The 30 days is a good will gesture for someone who is ending his affair, committing to the marriage and quitting his job. It is not a grace period for active adulterers.

jkwpurple: i notified the moderator

ok I sent jkwpurple an email. I'm on east coast so it's late and i'll hopefully be able to work on this tomorrow.

Here Please Explain Gaslighting

I got that, but what do you mean by thinking of ways to separate? Do you mean looking at finances, etc?

Yes. Study this so when/if you need it you'll be prepared.

How to Plan B Correctly

His leaving is not the worst case scenario here. Staying and putting you through a false recovery is.

If he is shut out you get to keep your world while he loses his. Until he is all in marriage he is all in affair.

So protect yourself and let him hit rock bottom. What it truly means to choose the A.

No, I mean encouraging him to move out. Are you familiar with Plan B? Have you read Surviving an Affair?

It's awesome that you are helping out in terms of finding OW family! Keep us updated!

I'd just discourage you from offering any other advice to purple off the board related to any other aspect of SAA. She really needs to stick to the forum for now

Was this ever done?

Agree x 1000

I have been thinking a lot about your situation, purple. Given that your WH has been talking about moving out for a while now and that the OW is single, I am very afraid you are not being aggressive enough about killing this affair.

I ordered the book but it isn't here yet.

I read about plan b. The sample letters are all to WS who don't want to move out. Mine wants to go, and says he doesn't want to reconcile. How do I go about this? Is there any hope?

I haven't gotten his response since I laid out what I want. He works a double shift today. I may see him when he gets home if I can stay awake until he gets home.

I just cannot see the point in this. Do I then send her a link to it so she knows it's out there? I hate those kind of scummy sites that feed on people's pain.

Adjust the letter to your own situation. If your H moves out, the letter will be a list of the conditions he will need to meet before returning. The Plan B letter will have the IM information as well.

Your H now says he doesn't want to reconcile, but yes, there is still hope. My H had planned to divorce me and had no intention of reconciling. Eventually he rolled his eyes at the chaplain we were seeing and said VERY reluctantly, "okay, I'll do the right thing...." Said with a big sigh, this didn't exactly make my heart beat with joy. Still, as long as the affair was dead, the opportunity to recovery was now better. And yes, we reconciled, recovered, and now have a marriage better than ever before.

Many times, more often than not, the affair will die and the WS wants to return home. The Plan B letter gives him the way back.

All is not lost, Purple. Expose wide and far and to HR if your H doesn't leave his job quickly and set your conditions. If your conditions are not met, start working on a dark Plan B. Plan B is not designed to bring him back; it's designed to protect your health, your sanity, and your love for your H.

Do all you can to kill the affair.

I know you are terrified about your WH's job but please consider this...what D and post-D life will look like for you, purple. That is what you are up against if you don't kill this affair.

I hope you are not entertaining any idea that your WH will continue to do right by you and your children should you separate.

When I separated with my WxH, we had an agreement that I would not expose to his workplace and that he would move out and continue to completely financially support us. I FULLY believed he would comply with this agreement.

Well...shortly after moving out, he shacked up with OW and soon after that, he began screwing with us financially (about 1-2 mos).

Divorcing him was an absolute NIGHTMARE. If he had had his way, he would have kicked me out on the streets, moved him and OW into the house and had OW help raise my kids 50-50 (since he works too much) so that he wouldn't have to pay me CS. These were real issues in the D. I am not exaggerating!

You are not being aggressive enough and I am afraid that you are going to regret this.

So, do I send her a link? Is that why?

Ok, I did it. Now what?

The sample letters are to any WS, so it would apply. But don't worry about writing the letter YET. First, get him to move out. You can't go into Plan B until he is gone.

Good for you! When your H finds out from the OW what you have done, don't defend your actions. Just say you are not going to keep it a secret.

Be ready to go to the HR department and report it unless your H agrees to transfer immediately or leave his job. He can't work there. And, really, it is better, much better, if you were all to move away from there and get away from the OW.

Are you doing okay? Are you able to sleep and eat? Do you think you might need ADs to help you get through this? ADs can be a tremendous help and it need only be for a few months.

How would they know? Who ever looks at those sites?



No, No, No, and maybe so. I took them after my stillbirth and the withdrawal when I went off was so bad that I swore I'd never take them again, no matter what. I could not have anticipated a situation more painful than that one. So wrong.

You were separated? And he still saw a chaplain with you?


I don't have any proof the affair is still on. There has been no phone contact between them since he admitted the A to me. He did change the lock code on his phone and email, but not on the cell ebill site. I am able to read all of his texts there. He did call someone Friday to I assume ask if OW was ok, and the person texted a response that she is ok and seeing a counselor. It's a company counselor and the one I saw right after I found out about the A her only advice was about taking care of myself and encouraging him tell his boss what's going on. Hopefully she got the same advice.

The affair is not over, I assure you. But it will be over if you expose to her family and the workplace and get your husband out of there. You also need to confront the OW.

Have you been able to find the OW's family yet? I am concerned that this is being dragged out while the affairees regroup.

You mean there has been no phone contact on the phone he knows you have access to. Even the dumbest wayward could work around that. They also see each other at work.

Yup, they are called pre paid aka "affair phones"... yup my husband got one and when I caught that one, he got another one....

Well, that confirms my suspicions that you are not taking this affair seriously enough.

We told you that until they do not work together anymore you must consider the affair is still ON. You don't need anymore proof than that.

The fact that he has been planning to move out for a while now tells me this is a very entrenched affair, purple. The only reason waywards want to move out is to further their affair.

The fact that she is SINGLE is not good and the fact they work together is the bigggest problem.

You should be doing everything in your power to exposed this to OW's family and I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on the workplace.

Like Melody, I am very worried that this is being trickled out and not going to be effective in the end.

Ok, yes. I needed to hear that. Wenang is trying to help find how's family. I am trying to prepare myself for exposure to his boss. I know I am being naive in hoping he will choose to meet my conditions. He's completely caught up in this A.

jk, you do understand that this needs to be exposed to the HR director, right? Just exposing to his boss will not be sufficient.

Did you read the steps for workplace exposure on the exposure thread?

Whether he has seen her in the past few days or not is irrelevant. He is still in it.

This is why I posted that. I start to get caught up thinking he's the same person he was a year ago, but he's not. I need you guys to keep being firm with me.

Yes

Good girl! Glad to hear wenang is helping you search.

I have her email address as well. (Director of hr)

Update: I asked purple the age of the OW. She doesn't know. If she is around 27, I gave her the name and address of her parents. This is never 100% accurate when I don't have the info I need. Plus,she has a common name. But, I advised purple to contact the parents via mail and hopefully they are the correct people. The next thing I would advise is on Monday to contact her former boss to find out more info about her. I would call and say I'm an old friend looking to see what happened to her. I'd say, "is this the (name) who is around 27? is this the girl who lived at (blank)....just to get more info. What do you guys all think? Or...she can call the place she works now and ask those type of questions, just to make sure we have the right woman.

Or she could just call these alleged parents tonight and ask them if they have a daughter who works at XXXXXXXX. Can you get their phone #? Also, have you tried looking these people up on Facebook, wenang?

If you guys have the address, you might be able to pull up the phone # on whitepages.com by either going to the address tab and entering their address or searching the name.

It doesn't come up that way. Also in my search their # was disconnected.

What happens when you put the parents name in intelius.com? Does it link to her name?

If she is in law enforcement, her work place won't give you any information. Just an FYI

yes, i did intelius. also a more comprehensive search but got very little. i went onto the courts online website for their county and found the name and address of possible parents. Now, the best way is to find a way for the people at old or new job to give up some info on the woman to verify.

People who work in police know very well that by not setting boundaries can ruin your career. If you play with fire, you get burnt and they very well know this. We're talking about adults, not children. Don't you think these people deserve the fallout?

If I called and asked for a police woman who is in her 20's and I think looks like blah blah blah, they may bite. you have to be a bit cheeky.

Was the OW posted on Cheaterville?

I don't know if purple posted it on cheaterville

I did post it.

I found some old phone numbers associated with that address on free phone tracer.

Is there anything specific I should say to OWs parents other than please persuade your daughter to leave my husband alone?

I think those numbers may be disconnected. you can try *67 to test the numbers

One of the numbers for one of the possible relatives on free phone tracer was good, but the lady didn't know anyone by that name.

The address wenang found is owned by OW, but is in the state where she used to live. Suggestions?

I strongly believe it's very possible the OW parents live in that home.

He is not willing to work with me. I know this plan works with some WHs and not others. I know that when I look at the signatures on this forum I see a lot of divorces. I don't know how to keep this up.

You see a lot of divorces because what the wayward spouses did is divorce-worthy. There are many spouses whose behavior does not improve. There are also a lot of alcoholics that give up their families instead of alcohol. It does not mean that the right thing to do is enable them to ruin your life with their alcoholism.

I followed some other advice at one point that basically told me to Plan A my husband indefinitely and make a bunch of changes and that almost destroyed me. As a woman I could not be lied to continually and I got to the point that I viciously hated him and felt powerless. Once I started to Plan B him and expose the affair, I felt me strength and power coming back. There is peace in my life. I would like to save my marriage, but what I absolutely need is my own sanity and sense of control and peace. I no longer hate him because I have separated myself from his bad behavior.

Even if I get divorced, I do not regret Plan B or exposure. They gave me an incredible amount of courage and confidence. My husband exploded our marriage, not me. I cannot make him act correctly and do what he is supposed to do. But what I can do is what I AM supposed to do. We are all called to do the right thing in this life and by following this program you are enforcing the boundaries of marriage and standing up for what is right.

Saving a marriage takes BOTH spouses with both feet in. Recovery is a lot of work and lots of waywards don't want to do it.

There's a couple of years, though, before Dr. Harley would recommend you seek a divorce. If your H will not cooperate with you to create a safe and better marriage, you would go into a dark Plan B very soon. Two years after your Plan A and B, you would then divorce.

Don't give up yet. Every marriage is a little different, so although you will see divorces here, that was the best case scenario and a success for that spouse. There are also plenty who are not divorced. Just follow the plan and then wait for the affair to die a natural death. That's how most of the affairs end.

The plan works with ALL way wards, however, it cannot force anyone to fix a marriage against their will. It can't force your spouse into the marriage.

Since he is not willing to work this out, I would expose the affair at work, expose to her parents and get separated. He has already said he would move out, so I would encourage him to do that and then go into a dark Plan B.

Dark plan b feels very dark indeed. He's sitting on our bed right now, reading books to our 4 year old. This is so hard.

How do you deal with kids' events (an upcoming concert, for example, or a birthday) during plan b?

You will want to find creative ways to avoid ever seeing him. Birthdays, for example, won't be a problem because he won't be invited. It will be just like a divorce. Divorced parents don't hold birthday parties together, they do them separately.

Have you spoken to your husband about moving out?

He said he is moving out.

When will he be going? I would let him know he has 2 weeks to move out. You don't want him dawdling around at his leisure.

He is not dawdling.

What is his plan? When will he be out?

Would you write out an exposure letter to the parents at that address, or just a "call me"? I am suddenly aware that I'm unsure this is the right place/people. OW has a common name.

I would do both. Tell them you are unsure if this is their daughter but would appreciate a personal phone call.

3 weeks

purple: every county is different, every state is different. In my state, I can call the tax office and ask tons of questions...it's all public info. Try and call tax office and ask for 1. billing address of the owner. 2. who paid the property tax? 3. is there any other personal info they may have for you. It doesn't hurt to ask...they can always just say no. Or, if you don't want to go through all this, take a shot and just send the letter and hope it's the right people. We don't have much else to go on, until exposure. Once you confront the head boss at the job, face to face, then maybe they can confirm her age and the former address of the parents. Maybe they won't want to divulge, but there's a chance they will.

I can't do it. I know you're going to tell me off. If you're done with me now, fine. I know that I have to assume the affair is still on. I just can't make myself expose to his boss. I do not have the stones.

jk you wouldn't expose to the boss in person. You would send a letter to the Director of Human Resources, ccing his boss. Can you do this?

No. I can't do it.

If you are unwilling to expose a workplace affair then you have no hope of saving your marriage.

Why are you unwilling to expose this evil affair and kill it?

Because I know my husband, and I know that even after the fog lifts he will not forgive me for that. So there is not point.

I did not expose my husband's affair to the workplace. If I did the OW would have been fired. I was too scared of the ramifications and getting my husband furious at me. He threatened me in that he would support her, if I were to get her fired...so I didn't. Now I look back and that was my biggest regret.

You don't understand that you have nothing to lose at this point. You have already lost. Exposing at work is your only shot at saving your marriage. His forgiveness is not necessary. You don't need his forgiveness to save your marriage, you need his remorse and willingness to commit to the marriage. Something he will never have as long as he goes to the workplace every day and gets his fix of the OW.

You have chosen the job over your marriage. As a result, you will be competing with the OW, and their future children, for his pay.

You are enabling the affair. That comes at your expense and the expense of your children.

I have two equal, miserable fears.
1. I go to his bosses. He was telling the truth that it's over. He is fired, maybe faces charges, has to move to find work or has to take a new career, and never forgives me.

Or 2. I don't go to his bosses, this enables the affair, he's with ow long-term.

It doesn't matter if it is "over." [which it is not] What matters is that the affair is exposed and he leaves that workplace. He can't be within 20 miles of her anymore. Your husband had a workplace affair, it doesn't matter if it is current or ended last week. The issue is the affair.

Once again, you don't need his forgiveness. That is not a requirement or a condition of taking him back.


This is your future. And he will likely get her pregnant. Like I said, you will be competing with the OW and her children for his income if you leave it this way.

WILD HORSES will not stop a wayward from reconciling his marriage if he is serious. Again, his "forgiveness" is not necessary because you have done nothing wrong. Anger over exposure is a sign of the FOG. If you get him out of there, his fog will likely dissipate.

But if you continue to enable him, the fog will persist and his affair will persist.

He is leaving you NOW for the OW and pretty soon it will be too late.

purple: what does your in-laws have to say about all this? his siblings?

No, but his willingness is a requirement.

The first requirement is that the affair is killed and your H moves away from the OW. If your H continues to work there, the affair will continue.

I believe your ultimatum was simple. He gives notice to his job, gets a transfer immediately (or take a leave of absence until transfer comes through) OR You will have them both exposed to superiors. Were these ultimatums given? Which one is he picking?

As someone who has JUST gone trough this. Please expose. It is the only way.

Your willingness is the requirement. He has to demonstrate remorse to you.

Do you think enabling his affair and keeping his secret at work will make him willing?

He is leaving you for the OW in 3 weeks. They will move in together. Do you think he will be willing when that happens? I assure you he will be less willing.

This fear is based on NON FACTUAL information. It is based on *fears* such as, he 'might' get fired, he 'might' face charges, and he will 'never forgive me' (you don't know that).

If he is fired then it is because of his AFFAIR and not because of your exposure. I know we have said that to you a million times but you need to keep telling yourself this. He and his skank CHOSE to have this affair, they chose to put their jobs and careers on the line to cat around. HE chose that, not you. He and his skank chose that while you were at home taking care of his babies. They were not concerned about their jobs or careers, they were most obviously not concerned about you or your children. Yet HE is never going to forgive YOU. Tell me the logic here because I am not seeing it.

If he never forgives you when this whole scenario just screams of injustice, you won't even care because you will be in Plan B away from this abuse anyway.

Also, you gave him a second option, which he has CHOSEN not to take you up on.

He is making this choice. You are simply fighting for your marriage and family.

This is already happening. By choosing not to expose his workplace affair, you are enabling him to continue it and remain in the fog. You have already seen that people in an affair fog do not think rationally. They are willing to give up their entire lives, jobs, careers, marriage and family, for the affair addiction. He has already done that. He is already leaving you to continue his affair. This course of action IS factual and IS reality because it is already happening.

unwritten is correct. You are ignoring the REAL and PRESENT risks in favor of a hypothetical.

Your husband is leaving in 3 weeks to take up residence with his girlfriend. That is a real and present danger.

Nobody wants to tell you off. Or be done with you. I can speak for myself to say that I would like to see a little anger in you, not to be vengeful but for you to decide to fight for this. You are letting this POSOW take your husband, tear apart your family, without a fight! You are not doing everything possible to end this, and we all know that you will be back here in a few months from now, divorce papers in hand, WH moved on with his OW starting a new life, wishing you had done everything you could instead let fear lead the way to your destruction.

He is not going to just come to his senses here, if that is what you are waiting for. It is not going to happen. He is going to move out, and continue his A with OW and you will be reading a book on the bed to your son alone. And maybe that will happen anyway. Maybe exposing to his workplace will still not end his A, or he will still not want to recover your marriage. But what we know for FACT is that the road you are on right now IS ABSOLUTELY not ending his A, and IS going to lead to divorce.

Do you want a chance to get off the road you are already on? Do you want to do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to end this affair and recover your marriage?

Or do you want to be afraid?

Expose at work, he will either get over it or not but the affair must end. You don't want that woman to be your kids' step mother, do you? I KNOW it is scary to be a SAHM and depend completely on your spouse, and exposing the affair at work can bring negative financial consequences but you are giving him a chance to make a graceful exit, so he can find a job elsewhere. If he chooses not to exit gracefully, it is on him, and realize that you and your kids will be going without that paycheck, anyway. He will pay household expenses for you, maybe a few months, then he will get fed up and you and the kids will be in a worse position. Right now, you can give him the option of transferring/quitting so he can exit gracefully or staying and you expose risking his career but chances are, when he realizes his pocket will be hit hard (unemployed, charges, dishonorable discharge), he will see the affair is costing him too much.

Will your family help you financially to get on your feet? I know mine was willing to help in every way, had I had to go into a dark plan B. I was also "enabling" the affair by not giving my WH an ultimatum and allowing him to sleep in our house, so he wouldn't be homeless, worried about how I was going to do without an income, while my family (in another country) worked on getting me and the kids down there. And let me tell you, those were some of the most intense and hard weeks for me. The day I got fed up with his constant belittling and pokes to cause an argument/fight. I showed him the door, I told him he could not take the ONLY car we have at the moment because, well, sadly for him it is in my name, so it is mine. He left and stayed at his boss' shop, in the work van for 5/6 days. Now, his affair had truly ended but it gave him a reality check, it was hard but I did not contact him at all. He called his sister and asked she talked to me to ask what he needed to do so he could come back.

If he chooses his career, and to support his family, he will leave the one he has trashed with an affair.

Leave before he is pushed because they will find out.

However if he chooses the affair then you have to accept his days of supporting you are over. Because his money goes to her and he will get fired.

As to his never forgiving YOU for trying to stop this, I can't respond sensibly to such nonsense.

Did you see this?

Enabling a wayward does not make them feel kindness towards you. Being nice does not work when trying to save your M. It will only BACKFIRE on you.

All it does is create a monster. I cannot stress to you enough how entitled and brazen your H will become after moving out and shacking up with the OW.

You do not see the big picture here. You are not envisioning a future that includes your children going to stay with your WH and his OW and him not caring one bit how you feel about it. You are not seeing the court battles and legal fees that are the NORM when dealing with an entitled wayward.

In fact, waywards often use the children to normalize the affair. Expect to see the OW loud and proud, posting public pictures of your children on FB, sending you emails lecturing you about how you should be parenting and showing at school events. I give it less than a year.

It is 2 yrs post D and these are real issues for me and MANY other BSs.

You don't see the big picture here because you don't understand the wayward mind.

Exposing is win-win.
~Best chance for killing this A which is your only hope if you want to save your M.

~Even if OW and or WH are not fired or separated by the workplace, this will cause all kinds of conflict in their affair. There is a very high chance the OW will leave the workplace voluntarily. It will be very hard for her to show her face there after being exposed as a homewrecker.

~Even in the case of divorce:
It speeds up the end of the current A (which is what you want - you do not want this OW to become stepmother to your children and have to see her at their future graduations, weddings, etc).

It holds your WH accountable for what he has done (for the SECOND time now) and helps him defog which only benefits you and your children in the long run. Even in the case of divorce. The last thing you want is for your WH's waywardism to rub off on your children (selfishness and dishonesty).

This is the part where we point out to you that about a week ago you posted that you knew with "100% certainty" that there was no affair - without even checking your WH's phone ?!

With all due respect, set aside your own ideas about how to survive an affair. You don't know what you are doing.

If he really truly is the type of man who would have an affair then hold a grudge against the innocent party, the wife he betrayed, then just make up your mind to support yourself and have no contract divorce.

Such a stance would be quite evil.

I understand what you all are saying. I have to live with myself, whether I do what you are suggesting or not. I would no be innocent anymore if I go to his boss with this. I will have played dirty. Again.

I didn't sleep at all last night for thinking about this. Deep down I know you are right, but I still want to believe there's another way. And if there isn't, I can't stomach being the kind of person who gets a man fired.

You are not hearing us purple. YOU are not getting him fired. HE is getting himself fired.

You are not 'playing dirty' to fight for your marriage and family.

How is fighting for your marriage, rather than being a doormat, going to cause you to not be innocent, to not be able to live with yourself, to be that kind of person. That is insulting to every person on here who has taken a stand against adultery.

As for me I see that as STRENGTH, a moral leader for your children.

Purple, I regret not being strong enough to get the OW and my H fired. Yes, he would have hated me. But, guess what? He hates me now because I am not speaking to him, spending money on an apt, furniture, clothes, and blaming me for everything that went wrong. He blames me for HIS affair. Your H will do the same, believe me. They all think of their Betrayed spouse as the devil and the OW as their angel. By you being a doormat, letting him and her get away with this crap just shows you as pathetic and weak. He needs to see you are strong. He is in a free fall and you need to be the one to take control here. You are the only one who has that power. Think of him as a disorderly teenager. Would you put up with such nonsense and disrespect from your own children? Your H knows you well and knows you don't have a backbone.

Exposure is NOT playing dirty. Playing dirty would be having a revenge affair. None of the posters here nor Dr. Harley would recommend doing something that is wrong in the eyes of God.

Exposure of wrongdoing is the RIGHT thing to do. Doing all you can to save your marriage is the RIGHT thing to do. Allowing your H to walk down the path of adultery and destruction without doing ALL you can do is helping him walk down a path that will lead him to become a crappy man.

His supervisors have a right to know that they have two people in their ranks who are destroying families and are using very poor judgment. They are also likely breaking the HR rules of professionalism. In many organizations having a romantic relationship with someone in the office, especially with a subordinate, is grossly unprofessional.

Don't use the excuse "I don't want to be the kind of person who gets a man fired" to avoid doing the right thing - fighting for your marriage!

Do you really want to allow the skanky OW to step in and steal all you and your H have built together without putting up a fight with ALL the weapons at your disposal? I sure as hell didn't!

I wish I knew about this forum when I was going through Plan A. I would have done exposure to Husband's family and his workplace. I couldn't eat, sleep, or think straight. My head was spinning and I didn't know how to stop the runaway train coming in my direction. Now I see the light, but it's too late for me.

He has agreed to write a nc letter.

That is meaningless. He is moving out and he works with her.

The affair is ON.

You are not listening to us and in your own BS fog.

He must agree to get a transfer out of there! He must take a leave of absence until the transfer. Can you get financial help from relatives until the transfer if needed? He cannot go back to where this OW is working.

Sweet mercy of course he has. That's just a good joke at your expense. "I'll tell the wife it's no contact even though I'll see you Monday schmoopie".

You are holding on to hope where there is none right now. We see it from past experience. You don't. You're still in denial.

Indiegirl: I felt the same way as purple. Wow, what an idiot I was! I wish I had the fortitude to do the right thing. I may have been able to save my marriage, and get the OW fired, embarrassed and out of our lives.

His actions are going to get him fired. Not yours.

Look it's your life. If you're not ready to fire on this assault then cower in your bunker. Let us know when you're ready, when you've eaten enough pain.

Doing nothing is not the safe option. You'll gain more blame doing nothing.

Maybe it will be in time. Maybe it will be before this whole thing blows up in your face.what would you do if you were not afraid?

It's very clear to me that your WH uses your "kindness" as a tool against you and is very good at manipulating you!

He needs to write a No Contact letter AND give notice to his office that he needs to transfer or quit effective immediately. The NC letter without a move from that office is meaningless.

Purple: He's not the man you married. He's in a fog and falling. He has no idea what the right thing is to do at this point in his life. He only knows he is "in love" and he is addicted like an addict. If your child was a drug addict, would you be afraid to stop his actions at all costs? Of course not! You would fight with every fiber in your body to get your kid well. Your H is not well, he is drowning. His life (as well as yours and your children) will be shattered if you don't take action and complete control over the situation.

Here.

Important/Special Events while in Plan B

I strongly recommend seeing your doctor for ADs. Dr. Harley often recommends starting with something like Wellbutrin, since it has the fewest side effects, then if you don't get much relief, go back to your doctor and try a different one.

I took an anti-anxiety med called Lexapro which worked really well. My mother also took Lexapro when my father/her husband passed away. She took it for about a month and then weaned off. The rule for ending ADs is to wean yourself off of them a little at a time.

You are experiencing considerable stress that can be not only paralyzing but also damaging. Please reconsider your position on ADs.

Please open your eyes. It took me a few weeks to really open my eyes to the situation. I was like you, I didn't want to let my WH face the consequences of his choice. I was enabling the affair by not setting boundaries, it was taking a toll on me and my kids. Part of my issue was my real support is in a whole other country and to just up and move the kids, I had to deal with a lot of legal paperwork/money.

I was scared of letting him leave or making him leave because I am a sahm, I depend on him. If he chose not to deposit his check, I was screwed with no money for anything. I know my family and some friends would have helped financially until we could move but that was not the point. That was until I put my big girl panties on and confronted OW personally, not in the best way, but it had to be done. I kept open communication with the OWH. Between both of us, we broke the affair. Then I allowed my WH to stay at our home and it was miserable, I had to walk on eggshells. I guess at that point he was trying to punish me for bursting his bubble, I got fed up and kicked him out. He was literally homeless. His sister refused to allow him to stay at her house. It took 6 days but he finally realized his fantasy was really over and he was losing everything, even the respect of his children. He agreed to meet my conditions and work on recovery. Was he angry? Yes, very angry. Has he forgiven me? not really, but in time he will just forget and see that I did what I needed to do to rescue him from making the biggest mistake of his life.

I know there is not a OWH in your case which makes it even more important to break this affair by exposing to his job. His affair is at work. So, he staying there is not going to give him a chance to lift the fog. You and your kids are going to be in the back burner, and this woman will be their step mother, the same one that wrecked their family. Even my 9 and 7 yr old get it. They know that they do not want the OW to be their step mother (and they loved this woman) but they would be ok, if their father and I decide to divorce and then either one of us met someone down the road and marry them.

okay, he is looking for a graceful way out. He has his boss he needs a transfer ASAP.

shift change effective today.letter to her parents is written and I'll stop by the post office today to send it.

What he could do while waiting is take leave so he doesn't work with the OW. Is this possible?

So is he ready to:

1) end the A
2) send a NC letter to the OW, approved and mailed by you (written in MB format)
3) leave his job ASAP (with no further contact with OW)
4) commit to a program of marital recovery (MB)
5) abide by the EP list, including full transparency

If he is not willing to do ALL of these things, if he is just saying he will work on leaving the job gracefully but still planning to continue his A, continue contact, move out, etc. ... then you STILL need to expose this to his workplace.

That's better.

What's his demeanour like towards you?

Does transfer mean same company and continuing chance of contact with OW?

If so that's only a temporary measure and he still needs a new job

He has agreed to all but #4. He is reluctantly thinking about that one.

He is just as kind as always. Helpful, thoughtful, but not remorseful. He told me his head is a mess and he doesn't know what to think. As if I didn't already know that. I realize he is still emotionally attached. He told me that he can see why I ask him for nc with her.

Transfer is like getting a job with a different company, other side of town. They wouldn't answer to the same people until you get to the chief of police.

Unless he commits to a program of recovery, he is still not serious. You will be miserable and resentful if your H does everything on this list except this one. Your marriage will be even more prone to affairs.

Purple,after an affair, the wayward spouse owes their betrayed spouse Just Compensation. He can EARN your forgiveness by doing two things:

Making your marriage safe with Extraordinary Precautions for life.

Making your marriage wonderful by following a program of recovery.

My H had two affairs. We did not recover from the first one. He ended contact and we had moved anyway because of his job, but no EPs, a pretty much dead marriage, and tremendous resentment on my part led to a very unfulfilling marriage. I was so sorry I had married him. He continued to be a flirt, we never did the POJA, yet we stayed married. I did my thing, and he did his, and we were happy enough, but living parallel lives. After his second affair, which took place while he was deployed, I was DONE with this man! But once he accepted my terms: EPs for life and a program of recovery, our marriage became better than ever before. My husband is extremely happy with the MB life, and so am I. No more resentment, no more parallel lives, fulfilled ENs, no love busters.

Can you sell your H on MB and tell him it's about making BOTH spouses very happy? If he refuses, personally I would not move forward with living in a loveless marriage. Your marriage will be crippled by his affair.

That's a decent start, but moving away, far away, from the OW is your best bet. It would be too easy for him to remain in contact with her. Either one of you could cross paths with her by accident.

He is just trying to stop you from exposing. That's all that's happening here.

Did you happen to mention the exposure to workplace to him?

He literally just returned from leave. He took a month when our daughter was born. He's been back less than a month.

Isn't he moving out? You said he was moving out to get an apartment.

purple: is your husband's head spinning? is he in a state of confusion? If you think this is the case, it's your job to make the decisions and take control of this situation. You hold more power than you think.

What do you mean by this? And yes, he's a mess.

Melody, yesterday he said he is moving out and had a lead on apartment available in three weeks. Today he said he would write the nc letter and when I asked for access to his phone/email, at first he said why, but when I said are you kidding? he handed it over.

I wasn't able to look through it properly, but he did answer the questions I had so far. I didn't ask him yet if hr still plans to move out. Honestly, I had to have a biopsy today and between the two I was such a wreck that I just couldn't ask today.

Very possible.

He is moving out to be with his girlfriend so all this nonsense about a nc letter, changing shifts, getting transferred, etc, is just a distraction to keep you from interfering with his affair.

Someone who is moving out to be with his girlfriend is not serious. He is just yanking your chain to get you off his back. All of these gestures mean nothing.

And the only thing for it is to expose at work? And just exposing to his boss won't do it?

If you want to save your marriage, you need to buck up and stop being so timid, madam. None of these actions mean a damn thing. They are empty gestures designed to keep you from interfering in the affair. Your husband is leaving you for the OW and you are talking about him changing shifts? You need to wake up before it it too late. The longer you dither, the more entrenched the affair becomes.

Stop being an enabler and start working on saving your marriage before it is too late.

Purple: What choices did you give him? Did you tell him he has to take a leave of absence and not go into work? Are you sure he asked for the transfer? please make sure he is telling the truth. He may still move out, but that doesn't mean he gets to continue the affair at work, so you need to bust it. Is he going into work tomorrow? the next day? he needs to give you his plan now! you can't keep waiting, you've given him more than 24 hours to make a decision. What is his decision?

If he is moving out to be with his mistress, then the 30 day grace period is off the table. It doesn't matter if he changes shifts or changes underwear, all those gestures mean nothing if he is not staying around to work on the marriage.

The affair should be exposed at work. Not to the janitor, not to his boss, but to the director of HR and the precinct captain on an official basis.

All of this talk about changing shifts, transferring, sending nc letters is a needless distraction that is only pettifogging the issue.

Jk, stop sitting around waiting for his decision and make a decision to save your marriage. Expose the affair to his workplace.

Well, maybe just expose to the bum that lives in the trash can at his work.
What do you think?
Obviously if you expose then you must make sure high level bosses know about it so he will be separated from the OW.

His actions should be telling you where his weak spot is. He is moving out so that if you do expose him at work he can say 'we are separated'. He is offering an NC letter to prevent exposure. His actions are telling you workplace exposure is what he fears the most.

Why? He can get another job. It's just a job. With his marriage on the rocks and shame awaiting him at this one (because you foolishly threatened exposure before doing it) you would think he would be RUNNING to another job. A sane person would.

Not him. He's wayward. The job is where the affair is! He can get another job but he can't get another job where can indulge in his affair all day. He is addicted to that level of indulgence and break with reality and it WILL get him fired and unable to get another job.

He. Does. Not. Care. Not about the looming joblessness or doomed prospects. Not if he gets a few more weeks of affair-job. If he cared he would be job hunting and making sure you knew his every move and working on the marriage instead of moving out.

The main problem here is it's impossible to take you seriously. You're not much of a deterrent against the siren call of an affair.

The minute you threatened him with exposure you should have just held up a big sign saying 'I'm not going to go through with it - do whatever you want - your paycheck is more important to me than you are'.

People who threaten rarely act on their threats. People who mean business just get on with it and do it. He knows you are bluffing and doesn't think much of you for it.

That's why Dr H says exposure actually withdraws fewer love bank deposits than threats and fights and arguments.

Plus exposure is effective while those other things are not.

Well, you all were right. He moved out two weeks ago and contacted her again a week after he left.

Sorry that we were right.

So did you expose at work?

I know it is horrible.

You cannot control his actions, only yours. We have given you all the MB advice so all that remains is to ask: what are you willing to do about this?

Exposure is chapter one, line one. If you don't start there the other ingredients don't add up.

I didn't expose to his work. I was too scared.

I also didn't write a plan b letter.

Basically, I thought he was going to come to his senses and I didn't listen to you guys. Is it too late?

Ohmygoodness. I called his superior. I thought I would be able to ask what the policy is regarding this situation, then decide whether to follow through with exposing but the man said that since I had called he would have to investigate and I could either tell him who it is or h could investigate everyone until he found out who it is. I just exposed to his chain of command accidentally. I am going to be sick.

You are doing the right thing, but I would follow the instructions in the Exposure thread and do a COMPLETE exposure! I know its scary, we all have been there.

Exposure is the most important step and a marriage will not recover without it nor most affairs die because of it.

It is not too late. I didn't find MB until 2 months into my husband's affair so exposure didn't happen until then. Did it help? You betcha!

*changed to and (stupid phone!)

Did you tell him the name of OW?

Did you ever expose to her parents?

You need to sit down and complete exposure.

Will you do this?

Expose far and wide. Believe me, you will regret it if you don't. You will not regret exposing the affair. No one does after they've done it. Follow the advice you receive here, or you'll kick yourself later. I did everything but cheaterville, and now I regret not doing cheaterville.

When you expose, be prepared for the repercussions following that. Some people are unprepared with what comes next. Be strong and build up your support base.

As mrbond said, waywards can and do throw temper tantrums much like a 4 year old losing their favorite toy. Or a heroin addict during an intervention. They will make you feel guilty for exposing. Just keep calm and say that you are doing what you have to do to "save our marriage".

The angrier they are, the more successful you know the effect exposure had. Do not get pulled into it and try to defend yourself. Do not feel that you need to explain. His foggy brain won't understand it right now and will just twist things around on you.

But it needs to be done. As soon as possible.

Re-read Exposure 101 so you are prepared and complete all of the steps.

You can do this.

I never mailed the letter to her parents, but I'm on my way to the post office to do that now. I exposed to our families and close friends, except his few (3?) work friends that I know he is friends with and I know how to contact. Yes I am willing to do that.

His boss called me back. He has talked to his commander and opened an investigation. They want me to come in and give them the phone records that show thousands of calls and texts between the two of them over the course of the last several months, and they want me to give a statement that he admitted the A to me. The investigation goes on whether I give them the proof or not, but I think they will just lie and get away with it and be very bold after if I don't go the whole way with this.

What repercussions should I expect? I know he's going to be very, very angry. I am changing the locks on the house today. I should probably withdraw some money from our bank account. What else? And I need to give him a plan b letter, right?

The repercussions are that he will be angry, but you already knew this. I would change the locks and move half of your money to a private account.

The Plan B letter can wait until later this weekend.


You are correct, if you do this halfway, they will get away with it and he will just come after you with more venom. You need to go all the way and get some value from your efforts. Do this halfway and he will tear you up. Go all the way and you have a chance at destroying their affair. You have an uzi in your hands and you need to use that instead of the pea shooter you have been using.

Be strong and don't back down!!

First things FIRST. Go down and give them all the evidence. Ask them to give you a couple of hours before they confront them to give you time to get the locks changed.

Will they see you today?

They won't see me today. I have an appointment with his immediate supervisor and the head of the precinct on Monday morning. They said they will not talk to him until after they talk to me, but he has access to the phone records too and he may see the call before then.

When I found d out that he was with her again (still?) I feel like something clicked into focus for me. He is divorcing me. I cannot make this worse.

I had the same realization. Don't be afraid. You can do it. This is your best shot.

Well, I'm terrified. But I'm going to be ok.

Things will be way better after exposure. You can do it! Follow everyone's advice to the letter! Having people's support is wonderful, and you'll be able weed out the enablers.

Just got a text from him that all of his work friends are calling him, and he doesn't know what my intentions are but "stop calling and messaging my friends".

I should have included them in the first exposure but I was scared. I hope I haven't made a mess by doing two separate exposures.

Maybe it would be a good idea to go into Plan B this weekend so you don't have to listen to his backlash next week. How prepared are you? Do you have an IM lined up? Do you have plans in place to prevent him from contacting you? Could you get prepared and go dark tomorrow evening or Sunday?

You haven't, better late than never. Don't respond to any of his texts or calls and finish exposure. Print out whatever you need to bring on Monday. Go to bank in morning, open new account and transfer at least half from the joint account. Waywards are notorious for emptying the account. It's all about control for them and you have to make sure you cant be.

Can you go to the bank in the morning?

I second the suggestion to ignore him/not engage him until you complete your exposure.

He's going to do everything in his power to get you to back off...and since he has had success getting you to do so in the past, he's going to be very aggressive. There will be lotsa gaslighting!!

It's scary for everyone but you can do it.

Try not to dwell on the fact that you didn't expose and just realize that you are vulnerable to your WH's gaslighting....move forward with that understanding so that you will be less likely to go along with WH's "plan" again.

Do everything you can to end the A...at least then in the future you will know you gave it your best shot.

Since this is a pretty involved affair...and your WH has already left the home, I would pull out all the stops to expose this. I would post OW on Cheaterville and expose to her FB friends in addition to the workplace exposure and the letter to her parents.

Give it all you've got!

Purple: Try not to go back under his spell. You probably still think and hope he will come out of this and see the light. That way of thinking is bad for you because you can't make good decisions if you're in denial. You sound like you are beginning to understand the mindset of a wayward. Please don't listen to him and his gas-lighting. It's best if you can go into plan B so you can avoid his rage. He's going to be livid! Be strong and show him he cannot control you anymore!

I didn't respond to his text.

I went to the bank this afternoon.

I exposed before to everyone except his work friends, and I just did that. Since they work together, these are her coworkers as well and I did include her name in the message I sent today. She doesn't have a Facebook. It took a lot of digging (and I had to have help) to find a possible address for her parents. Letter went to them certified mail today.

As for plan B - I'm not sure how to go completely dark. We have a 3 month old and I am breastfeeding her - she doesn't take bottles at all. We have to have some degree of real time communication in order for him to be able to see her at all.

Lets figure this out. Do you have a friend, family or neighbor who could facilitate visitation with the baby OUTSIDE OF YOUR HOME? How often has he seen the baby since he has been gone?

And bravo to you for taking care of the bank and sending off the letter to her parents!

He has been gone two and a half weeks. The first week, he came to the house to play with the kids all 4 days that he could (when his schedule matched theirs). The second week he got to hold her twice (at our older son's concert and again at his birthday). He was just telling me when he could see them a week at a time. So I told him we have to have set schedule from now on, and he asked for Tuesday overnight to the middle of Wednesday, and Friday morning. That's what we did this week, and he picked the kids up (I had their things on the porch and they went out when he got there, but then i went out and he asked if he could hold the baby for a minute.) I took her to his apartment on Wednesday morning right after she ate and came back when she was hungry again. He took her this morning when he took the older kids and I went when she got hungry, sat in my car and fed her, then took her back to his door and he brought them all back home by the time she was hungry again.

Yay! Good work! Doesn't it feel better to take action and stand up for yourself?

How old are your children?

It does. Nothing feels good right now, but o feel less like a victim today than I have in 2 months.

They are 14, 11, 4, and 3 months.

I don't think I would go for overnights if I were you, especially since he is having an affair. I would give him perhaps every Wednesday evening for a couple of hours and then either Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Do it in blocks of time that will make it possible for him to get the baby home to you in time for a feeding. For example, he could have them for 3 hours and you could feed the baby just before he takes them.

The older children could carry the little one to the car so he doesn't have to come inside. This way you don't ever have to see him.

And maybe let him take the older children an extra afternoon or evening.

Do the older children WANT to see him?

I would set up a very strict visitation schedule so you are not constantly revisiting this issue. Have your IM give him the calendar.

Do you have an IM yet? Have you changed the locks?

And maybe you could send a bottle with breast milk in it?

How are the kids doing? Do they need counseling? It may help them get through this period. Does your H have good insurance that can cover it?

If you're not able to do plan B yet, your H may get verbally abusive. Remember to stay calm and cool and don't debate him. Just calmly say you are doing what you need to do for your family. Be decisive and in control. No crying, no yelling, no back and forth. He needs to see that you have taken control of the situation.

Have you exposed to your children?

Your kids are so young. Be careful how you talk to them about it. In some cases, a counselor can help. For my kids, the school was great in providing them support they needed if they were too scared to bring anything up to my W and I.

My kids know. Well, the older two do. I have been careful to not say angry things about their dad. I have just reiterated that sometimes people we love make mistakes. (My 11 year old said "this is one heck of a mistake.") They are handling things pretty well for the most part. We have access to free counseling through his job, and I have been going. The woman I see is really good. I mentioned counseling to my daughter and she wasn't very enthusiastic, but I think we'll go anyway. I have been letting them go overnight. They really do want to see him.

I have not ever been able to pump breastmilk successfully. I am able to comfortably leave her for about 2 hours.

Changed the locks last night.

I am so terrified about turning over this evidence to his superiors. I know the investigation is underway with or without me. I know if I don't do it, they will likely get away with it and they will stay together. It will be like I've poked a sleeping bear with my rifle and then just let it get up and attack me without shooting.

I just keep thinking about me and four kids no longer having medical insurance, or money for the electric bill, or....

I haven't worked outside the home in over 4 years. I don't have the earning potential to support us now. I have family that will help, but it is still so scary.

And it's scary because I still love this man. It's so hard to expose his mistake at work when he has worked so hard to get where he is. I know he doesn't seem to care how it affects him, or how it affects me. It's just so hard.

Sorry for blabbering.

purple: Do you have a good lawyer? Get a few referrals and consultations. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe your H has to pay all your (and his kids) medical and insurance bills. If you need to go back to school or more alimony while you job hunt, he probably has to pay for that too. If you need child care, he may have to pay that. Don't be concerned about something you may not have to worry about. Find out the law.

Secondly, stop calling it a "mistake". A mistake is one wrong move. He had plenty of time to correct his wrong move. This is all his fault. Stop shifting the blame to you. There's consequences to his bad choices. Always remember that. The consequences for him are going to be enormous.

I have consulted a lawyer, and yes he will have to pay. A lot. As long as he has a job.

If I stop calling it a mistake, I'm afraid I will start hating him. I have to think of it as a temporary thing. Yes, a series of mistakes. Many bad choices. If I start thinking about how he is deliberately hurting me and his family, I don't know that I can keep it together.

Definitely not my fault. Turning him in doesn't make any of the consequences my fault. But I do have some part in bringing them down on him. Of course, whether I expose or not it would possibly be discovered.

JK, I know it is scary, but you can't destroy a marriage over a job. You are more likely to face going back to work if you are DIVORCED, and that is where you are headed right now. The longer this affair goes on, the harder it will be to bust up.

It is imperative that you give them all your evidence of the affair. If you don't, they can't take action and the affair will continue. Do you want that to happen? You can ask them to think of you and your children and transfer your husband to a new location. You have that advantage when you expose versus them finding out on their own.

You are not responding to my posts about Plan B. Did you read my posts about Plan B? You can't STAY in Plan A, dear.

You are putting your love for your husband ahead of your need for financial security. That is an honorable thing. If your husband comes out of the fog, and I believe he will, he's going to thank you for your sacrificial love.

Melody's right, by the way. It's scary, but you are more likely to face financial hardship if you get divorced, so this is your best option either way.

They would have found out eventually, I assure you. With you doing the exposure, you have the advantage of being able to asking them to transfer him somewhere else so you are not without support.

He has been a reckless fool at work and should never be in a position of authority. Sorry, but that is the truth. He threw his career away. He should have known better.

Thank you for saying this. I haven't looked at it that way.

I don't know how much leeway they have in their decision. Government job - so they have their policies and if you don't follo them the consequences are laid out in advance. If the ones in charge don't follow policy they are subject to disciplinary action as well. But it sure won't hurt to ask. And bring the baby with me to the meeting. Which I scheduled for Monday morning. I already printed everything off.