Greetings:
I am a FWH that is dedicated to recovery and am working diligently on recovery alone for now. My A lasted a year: 6 months as an EA and 6 months as a PA and ended via exposure/discovery in May 2014. We still live together peacefully with our two kids, but BW is not yet on-board with recovery and currently chooses not to make time to discuss the subject.

Before I give all the details, is it Open and Honest of me to post our story here without my BW's buy-in? I think we could really benefit from the wisdom displayed in these forums, but I will not betray her trust in any way. I can ask her permission but I don't want her to be afraid and I don't want her to feel like she has to be involved or is obligated to read what I am posting if she chooses not to for now. She is a very private person and may not like the idea of posting our story on a public forum. Is there a general policy about this? What are your thoughts?
Thanks in advance.

This is a completely anonymous forum. No one will know who you are. Just leave out details like where you live, work, etc.

Have you read the book Surviving an Affair? Have you followed the steps listed in the book, such no contact with the OW, eliminate the conditions that led to the affair?

If your wife absolutely is against your posting your story on this anonymous forum, then I would advise against doing so, because you want to start following the POJA and earning back her trust. However, even if you don't post your situation, you can still read the articles and some of the threads.

WHs who are serious about recovery are almost as rare as unicorns.

If you've asked your wife's permission to post & she's said "no," then, don't post. You're following POJA, so that option would be off the table for you, for now & until she changes her stance.

At the time I started posting here, in August 2009, I didn't know enough to ask my wife's permission , and I posted for around 2 months before showing her the conversations I'd been in (at least, those which weren't lost in a server-crash back then which wiped out a couple of months' worth of everyone's posts). Had I asked her permission before showing up here, I might've denied myself (and ultimately her) access to some advice & perspectives & experience that ended up being valuable to us both, individually & as a couple.

We were 7+ months into recovery at the time, but I still had some partly screwed-up thinking to work through.

Be advised: There've been some WSs over the years who apparently have posted for the cosmetic purpose of "showing" their BSs how "serious" they are about recovery -- as if simply typing good intentions here will work some benefit in the recovery dynamic, or decoy the BS away from ongoing bad conduct by the WS. There've been other WSs who've come here convinced that their own side of the street is all squeaky-clean while the BS needs to do more work. If you're coming from either of those two angles (and I'm not saying that you are, 'cuz I don't know enough to be able to tell yet), those kinds of attitudes will get deconstructed pretty quickly here.

I'm mostly retired from posting. Others here can be of good advice, but if you have some questions, then sound off. If you're sincere, then you can find some good help here.

3 questions. (These aren't mere rhetorical questions. Serious people will give specific answers):
--Have you read SAA?
--What EPs have you put in place?
--How are you doing on UA time?

I would go ahead and post your story. You don't have to divulge every little detail or anything that would identity you or BW. The road to recover from an affair is narrow. SInce D-day was six months ago, I would not let more time pass.

What have you done in the way of providing Just Compensation to your BW or implementing Extraordinary Precautions?

Welcome to MB

Have you been tested for STDs?

Thanks for the replies. I spoke to my BW this morning briefly about my desire to post our story here. She is open to the idea but would like to see the website first. She said we could make time this weekend for this. So, this feels like a good first step.

I realize that without the full story, your ability to provide some guidance will be limited, but for now I will go ahead and answer some of the questions that pertain specifically to me that you all have already raised without divulging the details that I share with my BW.

Long Way:
I have not yet read �Surviving an Affair�, which I realize is a manual for MB, but I will. I have read (and printed out to share with BW) all of the Basic Concepts and I've read many of the articles and QA letters. I have also read several other books prior to finding MB that taught me many of the same concepts. I will give you all a book list in another post as I have found these books very helpful in my journey. I do have �His Needs, Her Needs� coming in the mail today. Thankfully, I have, without knowing I was following the steps, done many of the things described in the Basic Concepts though I have also made some serious mistakes.

Glove Oil
In honor of your comment and to help make myself accountable, I have changed my display name to �The_Unicorn�. ;-) I hope to show that I can be a strong member of this elite club of WHs who are truly serious about recovery. I realize that some WSs post in an effort to look like they are serious. While I can tell you that I am truly committed to my marriage, I realize my words are rightly suspect at this point, and that my actions must now speak for me. Frankly, as I�ve been reading the forum posts I am sometimes amazed at what some WSs will post. I can already see the logic holes in their rather weak arguments. My side of the street is filthy dirty and I�ve been working diligently to identify the problems and deal with them head on. It has been painful but fruitful, yet my pain is minuscule compared to the pain I have caused my BW. I am pleased with the fearless accountability that forum members like you offer. For EPs I could surely still do more and have created transparency and have been and am committed to being radically honest. I will wait for her approval to divulge more details. UA time is extremely limited for now, though even without her buy-in, we have made some progress with UA.

Black Raven:
In terms of Just Compensation, I have done much and there is surely more to do here as well, but I will defer the details to a later post. I realize the urgency of the situation and am glad to have found a plan and a community in MB that seems to actually make recovery look possible.

Brainhurts:
I tested negative for a full STD panel in early August. I had myself tested without waiting for BW to ask.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Greetings:
I'm new to MB and just learning the concepts as I deal with recovering from my affair. This is a general marriage question. I have read many relationship books over the past several months. Many of these counselor\authors talk about the need for nurturing the Self in order to fully participate in marriage ("you are a person before you are a spouse"). I believe this concept and have realized that my lack of Self nurturing has become an issue for me. But, how do successful couples balance the need for nurturing the Self with UA time? Are they simply separate and we have to make time for both? Which one should be a priority?
Thanks.

Have you read this? A Brief Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

What does self nurturing mean exactly? That is not something that is necessary to create a great marriage. Most books on marriage don't have a plan for marriage recovery. The difference between Marriage Builders and other programs is that MB focuses on creating a romantic, passionate marriage. But, the steps are very precise and don't work well when you mix in every other dog and cat program.

We can help you create a fully recovered, fantastic marriage if you focus on the steps of Marriage Builders.

That's fantastic that your BW is willing to check out the website. You both can also listen to MB radio and that is the absolutely best way to learn MB. If you listen to the "listen now" it replays the days show for 24 hours. The weekend replays the Friday's show.

Also, have you seen this?
What is Just Compensation?

When you married you became integrated and one. This "Self" stuff sounds like psychobabble crap.

Thanks for merging my threads. This felt like a different topic, but I agree it really belongs together here.

Yes, BrainHurts. In fact I've read all of the Basic Concepts in detail, but perhaps I missed a discussion of the Self. So from a MB standpoint, the marriage is clearly the priority, UA and meeting ENs are the priority and the Self is secondary. I see how the intensity and clear focus of this policy can help people fall back in love and stay in love.

I am pondering the concept of the marriage being more important than the Self. Self-nurturing to me means spiritual understanding and knowing who I am and what I need and want and doing things that nurture that, which, come to think of it, IS covered under the meeting of ENs in some ways. I suspect this is really a philosophical\spirtual question that may not have one good "answer". I see that the MB key is clearly to have a strong marriage and the rest will follow. In the past I have tended to put the needs of others before my own and then felt resentful for it later when my own needs were not met.
I know I read somewhere here that outside hobbies and interests must take a back seat to the marriage or we become vulnerable to affairs. I may have just answered my own question.

As far as other books/programs, I have been touched by many of the other things I have read and when I feel this way I feel a need to integrate those ideas into who I am and what I do. But, I do see that the MB program is tried and true and tested and mixing programs would not work well. And, like Melody mentioned, none of the books I've read so far were very good at recovery anyway.

I'd love to hear how successful couples have maintained some of their own interests while building strong marriages.

I realize now I just posted that a second time. I wasn't ready to post initially. Trying to get the hang of how this works. Thanks for your patience.

I don't know where it is buried but there is a great post about "finding yourself" from long ago. Maybe one of the vets know where it is and can post a link to it. If "finding yourself" is what you are referring to as "self" then that is not something MB focuses on.

"psychobabble crap"? Maybe. Then perhaps the simple question is now: Can some of you successful folks share how you maintain your own interests while building your strong marriages? I ask for myself but I suspect my BW will have the same question.

UA time DOES nurture my Self!

Dr. Harley's position is that everybody needs an escape from the stresses of life, and that married people should plan their escape together. When UA time is done properly, it is the most enjoyable thing possible for both husband and wife. It functions as the nurturing that you are describing.

When Dr. Harley was in college, and in his early career, he was a workaholic. He rewarded himself at the end of his long work days with a date with someone. That was how he enjoyed himself. When the woman he wanted (Joyce) wasn't seeing him, he would go have a great time with someone else. Once he got married, he continued to plan those rewarding times with Joyce. That's why they were both always psychologically healthy despite his massive workload, and also why they had a great marriage.

I work hard every day, and my wife and I are raising seven children. We plan regular escapes: frequent dates together out of the house, as well as unwinding time at home every evening after the kids are asleep. This time to unwind fulfills the double function of keeping us each healthy (nurturing the self as you are describing) and also keeping our marriage happy. Healthy married people plan an enjoyable lifestyle together with lots to look forward to every day. It's wonderful!!!!!

Thanks, markos. This sounds wonderful. I hope I can get there with my BW.

What on this list has been done? What is left to do?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Do you own a copy of Surviving an Affair?

I have zillions of interests, and my wife has zillions of interests. Millions of those interests are common interests. Those are the ones we focus on the most.

Take a look at Dr. Harley's Recreational Companionship Inventory and his chapter on Recreational Companionship in His Needs Her Needs for a system for discovering common interests together.

Also you might want to check out these articles:
Following the policy of joint agreement when you're very incompatible
Why should a couple plan to be together when they are the happiest?
Recreational companionship boring or unpleasant #1
Recreational companionship boring or unpleasant #2
Recreational companionship boring or unpleasant #3

If your goal as a formerly wayward husband is to render just compensation to your wife, then you had best get very serious about building recreational compatibility with her. Your wife is essentially lying bleeding from a traumatizing wound and you are trying to figure out how to nurture yourself while your victim is dying. Focus on figuring out how to nurture HER; she is the one who needs it. By all means you must figure out how to do that in a way that is also enjoyable to you, so that you will be motivated to do it often. That is the challenge that you are up against - and it's really the challenge that every husband is up against.

And the solution is: schedule fifteen hours each and every week doing something that you BOTH enjoy together. Make it the best part of your week. Spend almost all of that time in enjoyable, fun conversation with your wife, conversation you both enjoy. Do that while also doing something you both enjoy. You will probably have some additional time during the week for other individual interests, but even if you don't, at least you will have both gotten the chance to enjoy an interest that you both share, and you'll find that that is all you need as an individual!

I don't get time to play my 8-bit 80's video games much any more, but I don't have a problem with that, because I have lots of other interests that my wife shares, and we have a GREAT time engaging in those things. And somehow I do it all while holding down a demanding job, raising seven children, and posting here frequently.

Here's what to practice in order to learn how to have enjoyable conversation with your wife:
Friends and enemies of good conversation

Hi, Prisca:
I explained in an earlier post that I am waiting to show the MB site to my BW before posting any details of our story, per an agreement with her. I am aware of this list and have done much of this already. I do not have the SAA book yet, but will. I have His Needs, Her Needs coming today. Thanks.

By the way, for the sake of your hurting wife, and yourself, please, PLEASE quit reading all the other counseling books. You realize those people don't know what they are talking about, right? It boils down to this and it's very simple:

Dr. Harley's methods produce the feeling of romantic love in marriage, for life.
Other counselors teach you that is impossible and tell you to stay committed even though you don't feel anything.

Seriously, you have to understand that those people are just WRONG. Absolutely mistaken and misguided, and they will destroy your marriage. Please don't read that stuff. You've already betrayed your wife once for the feeling of love. If you do not recreate that feeling of love in your marriage, you are likely to betray her again, and you will blame your poor wife for it! And it will be YOUR fault for trying to recover your marriage using the approach of people who think that staying in love is impossible.

Please read this:
Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marital Therapy?

Please, this is my impassioned appeal to you and to everyone reading this: stop mixing and matching Marriage Builders with other counseling stuff. The goal of Marriage Builders is love for a lifetime - almost all other counselors teach that love for a lifetime is impossible, or that it just happens sometimes and there's nothing you can do about it.

Marriage Builders: LOVE for a lifetime
Other counseling: Love fades, marriage sucks, stay committed, tough it out.

How could this possibly be any clearer? This information has been available for YEARS; I do not understand why I see person after person mixing Marriage Builders with other counseling. Do people NOT want to be in love?

You need to put His Needs, Her Needs aside and focus on Surviving an Affair first -- it is the book that lays out the very narrow path to recovery. His Needs, Her Needs comes later, when you are actually in recovery.

A lot of us here, including me, really dislike new-age, feel good, psychobabbly concepts like "nurturing the self" and "knowing who I am". Don't you know who you are? Are you trying to find yourself? If so, look in the mirror; the person looking back is you. If you're still not sure, look at the photo in your driving licence or passport. That's you. Look inside the shoes that you're wearing; you can be found there, too.

There is nothing spiritual about the meeting of ENs, and I have never heard of anyone who takes more than 5 minutes to fill out the EN form when they do the home study course. There is no quest involved. You know what turns you on to a woman. I know what I liked about my husband when I first met him, and I know what has shifted or changed as I've got older and had children. When I first filled out the form, I knew what my H wasn't doing and I knew what was most important for him to do better. I'm sure you can list your own needs quite easily - no psychobabble required.

Having said that, Dr Harley does talk about the Giver and Taker in all of us - the aspect of "the self" (if you must use that term) that takes pleasure from making the other person happy, and the selfish side that seeks to make sure that our own interests are met. Both of these need to be recognised but they also need to be kept in check, because being a complete Giver ruins a marriage, and being a complete Taker ruins a marriage.

If you've read the basic concepts you will have read about the Giver and Taker, and they are also discussed extensively in He Wins She Wins.

Don't be a pushover, and equally, don't be selfish. That's all you need to know about "the self" and its relevance to marriage. Once you have a happy marriage you won't think about your spiritual quest to find yourself at all. Why would you need to find yourself when you can find a toasty warm spouse in your bed at night?

And don't cherry pick the checklist. It's an all or nothing deal if you want to recover.

Thanks, Prisca. That all makes sense. I appreciate the feedback.

i forgot when i made my longer post above that I was posting to a man who has recently had an affair. Now that I remember that, and see this question...

...I'm very worried for your wife. it is concepts like "nurturing the self" and "finding myself" and "maintain your own interest" that will lead you straight into justifying another affair if you don't KNOCK IT OFF.

Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily? If you're wanting to bring your wife on board with this plan, you cannot afford to miss even a single hour of the free daily instruction there. Getting your wife interested is a long and arduous process.

You will NOT get 100% of what you need on this forum.

You CAN get it from the radio show. Put the app on your phone and listen daily. It is on 24/7.

Markos:
As I've read these other books I've certainly been moved but their have been contradictions and little that has been actionable for recovery. This is what led me to MB. So, I feel I get your point loud and clear. I won't mix and match. Thanks.

Exactly

Ditto to all the other posters have said to you. You will be going down the wrong path if your marriage suffers due to maintaining your own interests.

Odd that you didn't need to POJA asking your BW about posting about how to work on "self-nurturing"....but you did seem to POJA about posting how you are helping her to recover from what you did to her. On a Surviving an Affair forum.

And as a former BW, I can tell you what I wanted to see my WH posting about was how he was going to help ME. I would turn your focus there and tell your BW the folks on the forum are asking you about what you are doing in order to help heal her and what you are willing to do to protect the marriage.

I would honestly be SHOCKED as a fBW to hear that she didn't want you posting about that!

Your story is going to be extremely similar to nearly every other affair here. We've seen it all. The story repeats over and over again. We have seen people brutalized and traumatized in exactly the same way as your wife, many times. This is a trauma ward where the most horrible things imaginable happen.

My wife asked what things on that checklist you have done and what remains to be done. You can answer that without revealing details of your story.

We have seen a LOT of non-serious, lazy, wayward husbands who don't have what it takes for recovery and who aren't serious about giving just compensation to their poor wives. We can tell the difference between the serious former waywards and the non-serious ones by what they DO, not by what they SAY, so we will know a lot more about how serious you are when you answer my wife's question about what you have DONE for recovery. As long as you refrain from answering it, it will tend to make you look less than serious, regardless of how you justify it - we know that it's in your wife's best interest for you to be held accountable for doing each and every item on that checklist, so claiming that it is in her interest that you not answer is going to ring totally hollow with us. If you look less than serious, a lot of people will invest their limited time elsewhere with people who look more serious.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to post all that, anyway - I hope lots of people read it and are listening. I have seen people do that for years, and it is so disastrous.

It's like mixing and matching cake recipes. You have a recipe for angel food cake, and you love angel food cake, and you hate devils food cake, but you mix and match ingredients from a devils food cake recipe. What kind of cake will you get, and will you like it?

Who is the OW? Co-worker, neighbor old gf?
Do you live close to her?
Is the OW married?
Has the A been exposed and to whom?

I appreciate the feedback. I agree that these terms are red flags. Part of the reason I have asked this question is that I feel this has become part of my problem. I understand that there is a real conflict with the nurturing self idea with building a marriage. That's why I asked the question. You all have answered my question well and I have NO problem with my marriage being a priority. And I realize now that building my marriage will automatically nurture my "Self" at the same time. Knocking it off as we speak. Thanks.

Here.

Exactly. People do just that every day.
All it takes is a "yes" or "no" as you go down the list.

SusieQ you are right. I should have not have posted that question today. I had that question on my mind and got it answered but it's definitely not where my focus should be.

Prisca, I will get back to the checklist later today. Thanks.

And one more question...

Does your BW know all the details of the affair? Have you given her full disclosure and answered her questions?

"We need to be apart so I can find myself" What a cute little euphamism that is, finding yourself or finding out who you are.

Many of my dear friends here know that I am a big believer in using a gentle touch on those unfortunate souls who either "Need to find themselves" or "Need to find out who they are" before they can come home to their families.

So, as a public service to these unfortunate souls I have composed "Finding yourself for Dummies"

First, finding yourself...

1. If you can't find yourself, try looking in your shoes. More than likely you will be there.

2. Do not bother looking where your children or responsibilities are, though that would be a reasonable place to look we know you are not there.

3. If need be, go to the police station and give the desk sergeant an 8x10 or you and ask to have an APB put out since you can't find yourself.

4. Ask your child to point to their mom/dad, if you are not sure which one you are reach into your pants and feel around, if there is a penis there, you are dad, if not, you're probably mom.

Now one of these tried and true methods ought to help you find yourself, but it probable dark so let's help you see better. Reach behind you, palms facing you, arms hanging down and grab. That's your butt. Now reach in that and look for a large round object, that is your head. Now, with both hands pull as hard as you can. You are now performing recto-cranial extraction.

Okay, now you have found yourself. We are making progress here! Now we need to find out "who you are". This is not so hard. Look around the house - if there are one or more particularly short little people ask one of them, they are called children, they probably know the answer as it was one of their first two or 3 words. Not able to talk yet? No sweat.

Look for the full grown person with the red eyes who looks like they haven't slept in a while and look emaciated from hardly eating for months on end - they probably know. They aren't home??? let's keep looking for yourself.

Try looking in a desk or filing cabinet. Look for folders named "mortgage", "Utilities", Or "Marriage license". There will probably be two names here -you are one of those. So we have found you and narrowed it down to one of those two people.

Now look and see if there is a wallet around. Remember that? Little pocket sized leather folding thingy. Look for something that says drivers license. There should be a name. Now find a mirror (Glass thingy in the bathroom), look at the picture on the driver's license and the face in the mirror, if they match, the name on the license is WHO YOU ARE. If they don't, check those papers you found -then you are the other name.

Now that you have found yourself and know who you are go find the other full grown person in the house and introduce yourself. Start out with "I'm sorry I could not find myself or figure out who I was, I know now."

Next, knock off the drama, quit being melodramatic and start being mom/dad, husband/wife like you are supposed to and quit with the childish theatrics because the final piece is WHERE YOU ARE. This is called the real world where people depend on you to act like a grownup and keep track of details like who and where you are. The little people in the house are kinda sorta counting on you too.

If this doesn't work and you have to take a journey to answer these questions there is a chance that when you find yourself you will be alone, without a house, without a spouse, without children who love you and without a penny. That is how my XW found herself a year later. Trust me, my plan outlined earlier is better.

Ahhhhhhhhh.... okay, I needed to get that out since the day my X Wife took off into the sunset and another post yanked that rant out of me. If your Wayward Spouse tells you that they need time away to find themselves and discover who they are print it out for them. If they can't follow the directions make sure the door doesn't hit them in the rear and injure their head. There is a reason I harp on not putting up with crap from WS's who like to play little selfish games - if you indulge them they keep playing them.

I'm better now. Thanks for letting me take a good long vent... maybe I am finally getting my old, dead, buried, BS issues from the days before I met J out of my system.

Come on, Unicorn - these are not hard questions to answer. Let's hear it!

Unicorn, you seem to be doing a bit of dancing.

You can speak in paragraphs about the book you read regarding finding your 'self' (and I agree that for a BW, seeing you read a book about finding your SELF instead of the obvious book 'Surviving an Affair' right after having an affair, would be totally insulting...)...but you don't have 10 seconds to answer whether you have done the items on the list of EPs.

And may I add, saying 'yes I have changed my email' does not provide ANY personal information about your story at all, so what is the big deal here?

Hi again, Unicorn.

You're getting a lot of great advice here from everyone. I well recall that it can feel like recruit indoctrination day at Parris Island, having so many questions & suggestions [valid though they be] coming at you from all points of the compass. Take time to digest it. Don't feel you need to respond immediately to everything you read here.

Online, it's sometimes instinctive to read some of this stuff that you're hearing as if folks were yelling at you. Maybe once in awhile they are. I've been known to. But most of the time, it works best if a WS assumes that everything being said to him/her is being spoken at a concerned whisper, as friends might speak to you over a cup of coffee. That helps keep the defenses down & may allow some things to sink in better.

Assuring no-contact with the former affair partner, emplacing extraordinary precautions, practicing complete honesty with your spouse, and making time with your spouse for undivided attention to one another, are all huge. Some of this takes months of practice to get right. Some of it (especially the no-contact & EPs) need to be as ironclad as you can make 'em, ASAP.

Specifically, what extraordinary precautions have you put in place, to eliminate conditions that led to your affair, and that will protect your wife's wounded ability to feel emotionally safe with you? And what steps have you taken to ensure that there won't be any further contact with the former affair partner? These are things you can list without saying a lot about the affair. Five months past the affair, you should be able to rattle off a list of several in each category. This is really basic & fundamental to getting recovery right.

Thanks for the encouragement. It has definitely been an overwhelming response. It surely did not take me long to get myself into hot water! I am taking it all in, though. Thanks for the push. I am totally committed to doing this correctly and I�ve missed some things for sure. Here are my responses to the Ending the Affair checklist:

1. Yes. BW knows all details of A
2. No. I have not explicitly committed to never again see or talk to the OW to my BW. I have committed to this to her at least once in conversation, but I have not done this explicitly, especially by writing it down and reading it to her.
3. Yes. I wrote a letter (e-mail) ending the relationship and declaring NC and it was sent twice, once without BW approval at day 6 after D-day, and a final time with approval from BW five weeks later. That was our final contact.
4. I have taken some extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation but not all of them, yet:
a. No. I have not blocked all potential means of contact. Phone and texting are blocked. Emails not changed. FB account still exists, though OW was �un-friended�. Phone number not changed. I have verbally promised to immediately tell BW if OW tries to contact me.
b. No. I have not fully accounted for my time, nor has BW.
c. No. A full account of money spent has not been addressed.
d. No. We currently spend only limited leisure time together. I am very willing, spouse is unsure. I am currently following her lead. I am present as much as I can be.
e. No. I have not changed jobs or relocated. This has been discussed with BW and was deemed unnecessary. I will revisit this with her. OW was not a coworker.
f. Yes. I have avoided overnight separation except for one trip for me to visit my parents out of state and one trip for BW for work.
g. Yes. I have allowed technical accountability. I have provided her with all passwords to all accounts.
h. Yes. Affair has been exposed to family and friends.


I ordered the SAA book today. And Gloveoil, I will get to your questions as soon as I have a bit more time. Clearly I have work to do and will get on these NOs ASAP. Thanks.

Thanks for answering, TU. I will address some of the biggest red flags:


I would change any avenue of contact the OW knows about, phone #s, email accounts, Facebook accounts. Telling your wife when the OW contacts you misses the point entirely. If the OW can contact you at all, that is a huge issue because her contract will be a trigger. Telling your wife - if you do - will not mitigate that.

Facebook should be deleted entirely because it is still a way to contact the OW.


While you should know what each other is doing at all times, I don't believe your wife has had an affair, has she? You HAVE, so it is imperative that you account for all your time while avoiding any overnights apart. I wouldn't be playing the quid quo pro game with her at this point in time. That will not help you one bit.

Glad to hear you have ordered SAA because you don't need His Needs, Her Needs at this point. You will greatly benefit from SAA.

Thank you for providing answers to some of the questions asked but I still don't see an answer to these: If OW is not a co-worker how did you meet her? How close does OW live to you and is she married?

I am guessing she must be close in proximity since you seem to have avoided this. Please answer. Thanks.

Use the list, and the book, to make this true:


One of the best things we do around here is let men who think they've done everything they can do, know that they haven't.

I'm glad they did it to me.

And thank you for finding that post, BH and LTL

Sir, was your affair partner a co-worker?
Where did you meet her?
How close to you does she live/work?

You're welcome.

Unicorn,

Make some time to answer us, and we will help you walk through this process.

Many people have failed here because they continually claimed they did not have time.

You're Welcome BR.

I saved that one a long ttme ago, even before I registered here.

LTL

Black_raven, Jedi_Knight:
Thanks for keeping after me. To respond to your questions:

I have given full disclosure and answered all of BW's questions.

The OW was a friend of a friend. I met her at two night overnight birthday party for my direct friend's child. OW was not a co-worker. OW used to live about a mile away with her spouse. I do not know where she lives now. The OS informed us in our last contact in early July that they were divorcing. The A was exposed to her spouse at about day 5. He exposed it to several of our mutual friends. In addition, BW exposed A to her brother and two of her closest friends.

Melody:
I deleted my FB account today and deleted two of my four e-mail accounts. I will delete the other two by tomorrow (quite the tangled online web). I will change my phone number tomorrow. I want to speak to BW before I do this but she works late tonight. I understand how agreeing to disclose any future contact is still a trigger and not sufficient.

GloveOil:
For my extraordinary precautions, beyond the deletion of emails and FB, I am going down the checklist systematically and I will start accounting for my daily whereabouts tonight and each night prior to the following day by emailing my hourly schedule to BW. My BW is not yet on board with recovery and our counselor recommended I give her space (more about him soon), so UA is very spotty. I have been following her lead.

I am still trying to respect BWs wish to have time this weekend to see the MB site before I post our full details. I realize some of you feel this is a cop out, but for me, these are the cards I have been dealt (by my own selfish choices, I might add).
In the meantime, I will continue to provide details that pertain to me as I can.

Thanks to all for the valuable feedback. Please continue to ask me questions and let me know if I have missed any and I will respond.

Also, I think at some point someone here told me to start listening to the radio show. I now have the App installed and have been listening daily.

And, SAA arrives tomorrow. I have not yet started reading His Needs, Her Needs. I will save it for later.
Thanks.

Did you listen to the clips in the "What is Just Compensation?" thread?

Also, here are some more good clips. Beware of Bad Counselors