Hi,

Little background, I am from Ireland, my wife (33) and I (36) have been together for 15 years and married for 6. We have a beautiful 4 year old daughter. We built a beautiful home together on her parents farm where her dad was kind enough to give us a site. We have been through thick and thin together and always totally in love with each other, I never had any reason to believe otherwise as we were so good to each other and I could tell- I always felt loved and I did my best to reciprocate that love.

Soon after our daughter was born, my wife developed post natal depression which she got counselling for and medication, but unfortunately it developed into full blown depression which was controlled with Serataline anti depressants. It affected her work and she had a period off work before she returned and switched jobs. Unfortunately in her next job, she was workplace bullied by her manager which led to a relapse and another period off work before she left that job. We were struggling financially, but it was what she needed to do for her own mental health and I supported that- whatever she needed to do to get better. She is a really intelligent and driven lady and she got another job about 18 months ago which she was sure would suit her and naturally we were both delighted as things seemed to be going well, and they were.

Anyway, in February just gone (2015) she was determined to get off the anti depressants as they were making her feel tired and bloated so she took a week off to wean herself off the last part, (she had in previous months, with proper guidance, weaned herself down from 150mg to 50mg). With a lot of my help, it really is horrible watching someone you love going through the withdrawal symptoms, she got off them and in the coming weeks and months things were getting better and better, and her confidence returned, we began having more intimate time together- that had been sorely missing for a coupl! e of years as a combination of her lack of libido and my loss ! of confi dence had put things on hold. She longed for us to have another baby and in April began taking Folic acid in anticipation of us trying. In May, we attended a couple of get togethers and weddings which took us away to hotels for the weekend- it was blissful, I hadn't felt more loved in a long time and I felt the same about her and told her so. Everyone commented on how happy we were, and unknown to me at the time, she was singing my praises for helping her get through her illness- she said most other men wouldnt have put up with her- she also told the girls there of her delight at the prospect of trying for a baby. The summer was looking good, and there was light at the end of a tough couple of years.

June was ok, busy at work for both of us, but we booked our holidays together with our daughter for mid July and we both looked forward to it as a focal point. In hindsight, she was moody and a bit 'off' with me but I didn't notice too much at the time.

Anyway, 4th July when I came home from work she told me to sit down. She then told me that she had fallen in love with another man and that I knew who he was... I genuinely had no idea so I made her tell me, it was a co worker who is 34. To say my world came crashing down was an understatment. She began to tell me that it was possible to love 2 men, I was in bewilderment and left, got into my van and went for a drive, tears streaming down my face- I couldnt take it in.

When I met her again later that evening she told me that it began as a Facebook relationship, but developed into a strong emotional attachment and that she loves him. She told me that nothing physical had happened , and call me niave, I believe her. In her mind she was making it ok by telling me first. She and i are both Catholics and all her core values previously were about family and charity etc. I know everyone says it, but this really is so out of character for her that absolutely nobody who is told can believe it.

I asked her what her plans were and she told me they were going to 'date' and get to know each other better. When she got angry with me in the next day or 2, she told me that I had never made the right decisions with money, that I spent too much time working, that I spent too much time creating the 'perfect home', too much time helping others and the dagger to the heart, 'that we were never right for each other'. I promise you we were and are. That hurt so much after everything that we've been through. Oh, she also blamed me for her depression, saying that I had always made the wrong decisions.

I held my hand up and admitted that there were things we both needed to work on, but nothing insurmountable, no reason at all to leave a marriage. Did the usual, begging, pleading, crying, but to no avail. By the way, the other guy has walked out on a relationship and marriage of 18 years and left a wife and 2 kids, one of them with autism behind.

I soon realised from reading online that begging will get me nowhere so that stopped after a week or 10 days, I wrote her a letter, letting her know exactly how I feel and that I respected that she felt she needed to this for herself, but that I didn't agree with her and told her that there was infinite happiness and love for her at home and that nothing is irretrievable with love. She told me that for the first time in her life she is doing something for herself and that she has to do this.

Most of her family are in pieces and strongly disagree with her- her mother is a whole other story and is [censored] crazy. Her father has pleaded with her to reconsider and has been over to talk to me on numerous occasions.

Over the time since, she has been cold and methodical with me, almost robot like, zero emotions, she wont let her guard down at all. Except for 3 occasions, when she admitted to me that she didn't know if it was worth it, how did we get here?, and another time when she squeezed me and was crying.
Her father thinks she is all over the place in her quiet time.

She also said to me at one point she wanted me to leave our home and that the OM had agreed to live there some day.
He basically wants my wife, my home and my child, everything that I love in my life. I was teetering a couple of days after she broke the news to me and nearly left, but somehow got the strength to stay- it's my home and I've done nothing wrong. I want to keep it a happy home for me and my daughter.

So, my wife is living with her parents (about 500 yards away), the OM is living with his parents, and she spends all her time on Facebook to him, sees him at work obviously and sees him some at the weekend. I asked her 2 weeks ago if she had slept with him- she angrily told me that the answer at that point was no, but to never ask her again, it wasnt my concern. Doesn't bode well.

She has told me in no uncertain terms that we are over/finished but she doesnt want a divorce. Told me I need to accept that, told me to move on with my life.
I can't and I won't give up on her yet. I am being minimal in talking to her or contacting her now, though when I do see her, I ask if she is ok? I can't be a doormat either.
I want more than anything in my life to have her home again and I stiil love her and would do everything I had to to learn to forgive and trust her again, but I know right now I may have to just 'let her go' and pray.

In my own mind, she is infatuated with this guy- it all happened so fast. At the end of May, he told her he would leave his wife & kids for her and one month later, thay are in a relationship.

I truely believe that if he hadn't already left his family, we would be working things out. Now, in her mind, its gone too far and they will make it work, love will conquer all so to speak.

The couple of times she let her guard down with me, there were chinks of light, but as soon as she speaks to him or spends time with him, the walls are up again. She has always been stubborn and determined. I guess they both pledged to each other, no going back.

The really galling thing is that he actively pursued and flattered her (I've seen the messages) it started round the time she came off the meds and he knew she was vulnerable. He knew far too much and told her he was 'just a pal who wanted the best for her'. I know she is not innocent in this, but he told her everything she needed to hear basically and she lapped it up.

Please help me and tell me if I am doing right. I am hoping at some point the limerance will end and the true girl I know will shine through when the gloss has worn off this affair. Oh, she says it's not an affair as she told me about it first.

Sorry if that was a litte long winded, any advice welcome.


Thanks.

Hello Sarma, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. The best thing you can do for your marriage is to try and kill the affair by exposing it. It is too bad that your in-laws are not more supportive and have taken her in. If they would agree to help you save your marriage, you would have a better chance. I would put on a full force campaign to run this dirtbag off. OM are typically cowards who run at the first sign of trouble.

I would expose him to his family and friends and to the employer using the tactics outlined in my exposure thread. I would also email all of her family and your family asking them all for their support. You should email those who already know too. Go read the exposure thread in my signature for tactics.

I would also ask your inlaws to visit the OM and his parents and tell him he will never be allowed to darken their doorstep. Hopefully they are not planning on hosting this adulterous affair.

One huge red flag in reading your post is your wife's philosophy of marriage. She very clearly feels she has an entitlement to adultery. Most adulterers are not this flagrant. Does your wife feel that she is entitled to pursue any new relationships while married?

Thanks Melody,

It is out in the open, they have both told their managers and HR department at work, I don't know how that went, but I'm sure the spin that they put on it is that they were both in unhappy marriages and this is true love. I'm sure it will be frowned upon by some at work, but they have no legal right to do anything about it.

My wife has also told her friends 'her news' and wants them all to be happy for her. I am sure she has painted me in a bad light and I am not perfect, but I promise you everything i told in my original post is the truth, warts and all. I have no reason to lie. I am meeting one of her friends this week to chat, she is 'worried about her', I mean this could not be further from the girl that we all know and love.

At this point though, all efforts by anyone to convince her this is a bad idea fall on deaf ears and actually push her further away and make her more determined. That's why I decided to let it run for a little while. She knows how I feel and that I would do whatever work necessary, but she doesn't want to hear it.

It's desparately frustrating, but i don't see what else I can do at the minute. It's not your average affair...in her eyes, it's not an affair at all.

This is why you need to report it yourself. The story is probably being spun by the adulterers so they need the true and full story. That way the employers can watch them at work to make sure they aren't carrying on there. That will put more pressure on the affair.


Please read my exposure thread. You are not being strategic about this. I would expose to them all within the same 24 hour period and ask for their support. It needs to hit your wife and the OM like a tsunami.

Does she have "friends" who will support her in self destructive behavior?


Thats fine if you want to sit on the sidelines and enable the affair, but you won't save your marriage that way. Your complacence reflects a lack of caring that won't be forgotten when she comes out of the fog. She will remember you didn't care enough to fight for your marriage.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting the truth out there makes them much less palatable. It is like bringing a crowd of people into the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. It ruins the high!!

And you don't know who will be able to get through to her. When you expose to his parents and friends, you will make it much harder for her to integrate him into her life. She will be embarrassed to show her face around his family when they find out she is just an adulterer who is still with her husband.

Anyway, we can help you if you will follow the steps. We can't help you if you enable the affair.

]
She is determined NOW. That is why you are here. She is determined because of her affair is going strong. Therefore, the ONLY chance you have is to kill the affair - or at least hasten its death.

If you are planning to sit around and ENABLE the affair, then your chances are zilch. WE have saved our own marriages using these tactics, so if you want to have a chance, you will have to get to work!

While there are no guarantees, here is how you save a marriage. This man's marriage was all but gone when he arrived here, until he stood up and started fighting for her. If you won't fight for your marriage, you are forfeiting your marriage: read here

According to Sooo many Betrayed Spouses that show up here stating that "This Is Not The Average Affair".

Baloney!!!

Get your mind straightened out and learn that 99.9% of All Affairs are Copy/Paste in their similarities.

Then, in your last sentence you believe the Wayward when she is subconsciously trying to make Herself believe that it is Not an Affair, but rather what God Intended and they are Soul Mate Shmoopies.

Another thing, Don't put Any Value in waiting for her Limerence to fade. A couple of proclaimed experts think that it the first requirement to reunite.

The ONLY Thing that I have seen work is Wide Exposure done by YOU, asking for specific help keeping another POSOM from having Any Contact at all with Your Wife and attempting to take over your place in YOUR Family.

One month prior to My Wife beginning her first of many affairs, she had written me such a beautiful message stating that:

"I can't believe how my life has turned out. I have more in my life than I could have ever Asked, Dreamed or Prayed for. First, I have the most beautiful home in the most perfect neighborhood to raise a Family. Next, I have the most adorable little boy who amazes each and every day. But most of all I have my Hubby (name), who absolutely adores me. I thank God every single day for putting (my name) in my life. I will love you always and forever."

Now, does that sound similar to the way your Wayward Wife had described your marriage? My boy was only 4 years old when SHE initially reached out to the first creep affair partner. Now, he is 12 1/2 years old. I didn't know about or use this forum, but the biggest thing I would have done differently in hindsight is a full scale assault on tbe affair and quickly contacting and exposing her affair to as many people on her side especially, then to my side, then anyone I could on the POSOM's side and even though hers was not a workplace affair, due to her also relapsing back to drinking alcohol, I would have contacted the HR Department to inform them of what else was concurring at the same time to put pressure on her ending that affair and possibly set her up to lose her school bus driving job.

LISTEN to Melody Lane and do NOT believe your situation is one iota different tban all the others on how to end their affairs.

You better Man Up more to your Father-In-Law. You NEED his influence and he needs to wake up and see how his little Angel is not only destroying herself, but his 4 year old Granddaughter and also a good Son-In-Law.

LTL

Thanks guys. It has been 1 month since she told me, she didnt try to hide it from me or deceive me, said she couldnt do that to me, but that she had to do this for her 1 chance of happiness- its crazy, you'd swear we constantly fought or that I beat her or something. I promise you she was so happy with our life before this pos moved in on her and convinced her she would be happier with him- he's so in touch with his emotions (her words).

As I said, its out in the open and her work colleagues know, her friends know (not all of them I'd bet), and her family know. His side all know too and he is living with his parents too.
Is there still something to be achieved by writing to everyone and giving my side of the story or would it be diluted now given the circumstances and time passed? The week after she told me, she was going round elated, asking people if they heard her 'news'. Its just mental. Her dad said it was a false high.

Lots of my family and some of her friends wanted to write to her but everyone was walking on eggshells in case it affected our chances of a reconciliation. People are all disgusted but probably dont want to get involved or voice their feelings but I know a lot who would if I asked them.

My wife was here this evening dropping off our daughter, the same walls were up, distant and cold with me. I asked her if she was ok and she said she was doing good, and said I seemed to be coping very well. Inside I am dying but I didnt let her see it.
I told her that I was still here if she wanted to talk to me but she said she was moving on & it was best for both of us. I gave her a hug but it was all me.
Softly softly and being the nice guy in Plan A isnt working, but it has only been 2 weeks in effect...

Thoughts? Thank you for all advice, its good to sound out. Its just a lot of advice I read is conflicting, a lot of sites suggest making the home welcoming, being calm and nice, patience is key, etc etc.

Help.

Although I said in my last post she didn't deceive me, she obviously did when it was still an emotional affair. She kept the extent of the messages and relationship from me. There always was a point where she could have stopped it or said no.
Instead it grew to a point where in her mind, there was only one thing to do and is logical in her mind but company irrational to everyone else.

3 huge things standing in the way of a reconciliation (assuming she wanted one-which she says she doesnt):

1. The fact he has left his wife and 2 kids. They would have both agreed that there was no going back and she will want to stick to that. She is extremely stubborn.

2.Her job. She loves her job/career and knows she will have to sacrafice it if we are to have any chance.

3. Her mother. She is and always has been batsh1t crazy. She told her that if she wasnt happy, then she was doing the right thing, and is going round telling everyone how nice this new fella is, that he will 'fit right in'. This is a woman that I never had a bad word with, she would sit here for hours chatting to me even if my wife wasnt here. I was always the favourite son in law, but now at her daughters say so, I am enemy no. 1.
She is not only enabling her affair, but encouraging it. She also said 'Why is he still there? (In my home) would he not take the hint?' Like I said, crazy.
Little background on the mother though, rumour was a few years back that she was having an affair. Her and her husband sleep in separate rooms and have a funny relationship. My wifes dads sympathies are totally with me, but to a certain extent he is enabling it too by allowing her to stay there. He told me he never wants to meet this new guy and disagrees with his daughters actions. I can tell he is heartbroken.
My fear is that with time, his opinions will change, and be will accept this om into his life.

Thanks.

Also, my wife is going away with her parents and our daughter for 4 days on Saturday & wont have much internet access where they are. Would this be good to spring the exposure for say Monday when she wouldnt have the chance to counter it for a couple of days? It would also give me a chance to prepare lists, letters, evidence etc...

You need to expose. When you expose you will be able to tell the truth.

Have you read the Exposure thread?

Also, you need to talk to the OM's BW.

If the affair is out in the open you should still expose. Actually the word exposure can be a bit confusing. Actually you will be asking people to help you save your marriage.

Your wife and OM probably told everyone, that the marriage was dead anyway and you are completely understanding. Also, you will have to contact the OM's wife to compare notes. Maybe this is not the first time he has done this and maybe he is still sleeping with his wife, etc. etc. She can give you important information and can be a valuable ally.

Ask people to use their influence with your wife to convince her to stop her affair and come back to you. Use the templates found in melodylane's thread.

Of course there are other websites that don't want you to expose, but if you read a little bit further, you will see, that they often recommend that you wait for years untill your wife is dumped by this man or dumps him. There is no guarantee that she will come back to you though in that situation. Even worse, she will see you as some kind of whimp.

So, exposure makes the whole process go faster. Expose OM and destroy the affair.

I want to caution you against placing any credence in her being honest about her affair. That does not change the gravity of the situation or make adultery right.


Every one rightly assumes you are all on board, because you are allowing her to spin the story. As such, most people are not hearing the truth, so they are not stepping in to help you.

i have tried to explain to you what will be achieved by exposing. Did you read the exposure thread?


People will get involved if you ask for help and if you STOP being so complacent. But why would they lift a finger to save your marriage when you won't?


Not sure why you would want her to believe everything is ok, unless you simply don't care.


Enabling is not Plan A. You are in Plan sarmaghbhoy1, just doing nothing.


We are not giving you conflicting advice. We are giving you the tried and true tactics that were developed by clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair, Dr Bill Harley.

If you persist in enabling her affair, I give this no hope. You are wasting our valuable time if you refuse to take the advice. We have already saved our marriages and don't have time to post to someone who is going to ignore the steps to recovery.

Suggestion: stop blogging and start following the steps. You will not save your marriage by blogging. Your inaction and complacence is what is standing in your way.

This is not a blogging forum. This is an action forum where certain steps are followed.

Thanks Melody,

I do appreciate everything you are saying and I have read your exposure thread and that guys recovery story. It does make sense and I am planning to get things together tomorrow & Friday, ready for a full implementation on Monday morning. (I want everything to hit at once and her office will be closed til then)

I didnt mean that those who replied were giving conflicting advice, I meant reading accross different sites and blogs etc.

Wish me luck, I am nervous about this but realise its for the greater good.

Thank you.

Will you be contacting OM's BW?

Bravery and firmness is attractive....even IF it makes her angry and nasty.
The angrier she gets, the better.
It means you hit bull's eye with her fantasy of having two men.

I already tried twice, she didnt reply. Will try again. She wants nothing to do with her WH and I can imagine what she thinks of my wife...

Good man! My suggestion would be to expose on Sunday so the most folks read your exposure because they are off work. You can send the exposure letter to their business and it will hit them on Monday. When it hits on Monday, you will be done and can sit back and enjoy the action.

Did I read that the OM is married? If so, you should put his wife at the top of the list and then move down his entire family and friend list.


Understand. Most people have no earthly idea how to save marriages but it doesn't stop them from all having "opinions."


will do!! We will be here to help and support you.

How did you try to reach her? Did the OM intercept your communication? I would make SURE you contact her.

And how do you know she wants nothing to do with her husband if you haven't spoken to her?

Thank you. At the minute she doesnt want 2 men, just the OM. Hopefully I can damage the whole thing with exposure. ..

Tried twice via Facebook messanger. Seen on her Facebook profile her posts and the tone/message of them is pretty clear. Also changed her status to separated.

Did your messages go to her spam folder? Because unless you know how to send them to her inbox, she wouldn't see the message.

Can you call her on the phone or go to her house?

I dont know if she seen them, they just say delivered. I have read the exposure thread and know about the $1 thing, is this still applicable on the current Facebook messanger?

When in my messanger, how do I even see this 'other' inbox? I have googled this to no avail, sorry- I am not very tech savvy.

Another question- The OM is IT systems administrator at her work, It would be very easy for him to filter, stop, or delete emails once he realised what was going on.
How should I handle this? Physical letter in the post?

Also, do you think I should confront the other man? I have my suspicions that his parents are separated, my wife just speaks about him staying at 'his dads', so his dad is probably a supporter or at the very least an enabler of what his son is doing.

Thanks for all the advice, just getting all my ducks in a row before I start this. I do know that my wife is ashamed of this and probably deep down knows it is wrong, but what has been happening is that she has been drip feeding her side to people as and when suits her, avoiding people who are against what she is doing, including lots of her own extended family.
People need to know the truth of what it is, a sordid act of adultry like any other, not a make believe happy meeting of fate.

Try to call the OM wife on the phone.

This is wayward 101, it is called 'rewriting history.' Every wayward spouse at some point rewrites your history to make it sound horrible, and decides that you are to blame for all of it. Since affairs are immoral and WRONG they need to tell themselves something to feel better about being immoral. They also try to spin this story with everybody else to explain why their immoral act is justifiable, that is yet another reason why exposure and telling people the truth is so important.

When you say messenger, what do you mean? On what device? Your computer? I would not just assume she has your messages. I would contact her directly and tell her about the affair. As far as you know, her WS intercepted them.

Yes, you should confront the OM AFTER you have exposed to both of his parents, family and friends. We expect many of the OM's family and friends to be supporters of adultery. You still expose to each and every one.

I am in the middle of a affair too. You know by exposing the affair i found support were i was not expecting. In my case i had wished there were more to expose too, both my wife and POSOM have few friends and hes does not have social media.

Its hard work just keep up the good fight, oh most important any of your kids over 8 years tell them.

Thanks. Wtf do I say to him? Threaten him to stay away? I'd be worried I would hit him....should I take someone with me as a witness?

Also the OM's BW- she knows all about this. I know that for a fact. She has written about it on her Facebook wall. What will I say to her? She doesnt want to repair her marriage & is done with him. Should I tell her about my exposure plan or that I want to save my marriage? Why would she help me?

Yes, take someone as a witness. Tell him you will fight for your marriage and that there is no future for him with your wife because he will be eternally hated by your son and the inlaws for his part in breaking up your family.

You do this after you have exposed to his family and friends.

Thank you everyone, plan in place, need to get this right. She has had it far too easy so far, surrounding herself with 'yes' people and avoiding anyone who disagrees or tries to dissuade her. Also, these 'yes' people have been filled with all her concocted reasons to excuse her adultery.
Afraid my mouth or fists will run away on me when I meet the POSOM.

She is also using me as a babysitter and dogs body, doing all our daughters washing, cleaning etc. I know she isnt in the home with us anymore but she could make some effort. She drops our daughter back with a bag of dirty clothes.

If you cant control yourself around OM then dont confront him.
Going to jail for beating him up won't do any good for you

Dr Harley recommends telling children of FOUR years and over.

Your daughter is 4. Tell her about the affair, so that she knows why her family is in turmoil. Tell her that Mummy has a boyfriend, and that is wrong because she is married to you.

Sorry, I thought I read 8 and above.

Ok, getting my list together here. There is an old mobile phone of hers here with her contacts on it. Might text them as well as the Facebook messages, at least I know they will go through. Will post a draft of my letters tomorrow for appraisal.

Contacted a good friend of hers privately last night to see if she would meet to chat about my wife, that I was worried about her (I am), she said she wouldn't feel comfortable talking behind my wife's back. This is someone who when my wife broke 'her news' to her, was initially horrified & told my wife she was crazy. Guess with all my wifes 'reasons' for leaving me and listening to her spin, she is coming round to her way of thinking. Disappointing.

If nothing else is achieved by me exposing this, it will give my side of the story and stop my wife picking her allies and drip feeding her excuses for leaving without placing emphasis on her affair.

Also bought a voice recorder. Going to go and meet the POSOM next week after all, my brother will come as support/witness.

Having trouble getting in contact with OMs BW, tried messaging again but don't think they are going through. I have her address, worst case I could doorstep her but don't really want to do that, she is an injured party too after all.
She would be able to help me with his parents contact details though.

You need to contact the wife.
She is your top exposure target

I know, I would like to talk to her. She does know all about this already, OM has left and is living with his parents, as has my wife. So its not really exposure, more comparing notes. She might not talk to me...

How do you know she knows about this if you haven't spoken with her?

I would go to her house and tell her in person. Can you find the parents on the OM's Facebook page? That will be a CRITICAL exposure, so you need to get that lined up. I would even suggest going to their home to tell them.

What makes you think she knows if you haven't spoken to her?

I've seen her Facebook page & profile, it's very clear, couldn't be clearer. Also changed her status from married to separated.

I don't understand. She said on her Facebook page that her husband is committing adultery with your wife? And names your wife?

Yes.

I should clarify- my wife isnt named on the Facebook page but she does know who. Regardless, I
have to meet the OM'S BS, if only to compare notes.

My copy of SAA & His needs, her needs arrived today so will study up. My wife has gone on holidays an hour ago with our daughter and her parents, they will be gone til Wednesday.

Thanks all for the replies.

When do you plan on talking/meeting with OM's BW?

I would focus completely on exposing the affair. Once you have exposed you can read Surviving an Affair at your leisure. The advice that we are giving you to expose is from Dr. Harley so there is not anything more you need to learn before you expose.

OK, Exposure letter to my wife and I's friends and family. Critique welcome...I took the template as a guide and added to it.

Dear Friends and Family,

I am writing this message to you as you are an important person in the lives of W and I. As some of you know, W has asked for a separation on the 4th July which has shattered my heart. To my shock, she told me the reason is that she is having an affair with an office co worker of hers, OM from xxxx. He is also married and has walked out on his wife and 2 young children. The reason for the separation is so that she can continue the affair.

My world has been turned upside down beyond comprehension and as much as we try to protect our daughter xxxx from this, she is aware something is going on and is all over the place. For those of you who already knew about this, I want you to know that despite whatever reasons you may have been told to justify the affair, we had a very happy marriage until W was seduced and propositioned by OM. We had been planning on trying for another child as recently as May/June and had our holidays booked away as a family. Like most marriages, we had our problems too, but nothing major or insurmountable. We always got through our issues together as couples should and I had no reason to suspect that anything had changed.

I am aware that, by posting this, some people will see it as an attempt to embarrass W, canvassing for sympathy, or an act of desperation. I promise you that it is for none of those reasons and I am doing this purely through unconditional love of my wife and family. I am willing to take the risk that people will think less of me for it- I can�t do anything about that.

W refuses to end her affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on W, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with W to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

Lots of people have told me that she isn�t worth it and I should move on. I know that she is. It would be easier if I thought she was a bad person but I know that she is a brilliant person inside who has just gone astray. We have been together 15 years on the 23rd August and married for 6 of those. I know that she is worth it.

I would appreciate your support and prayers for our family.

Exposure letter to OM's family & friends:

Dear friend of OM,

It grieves me to have to write this letter but I think that all his friends and family should know that OM is having an affair with my wife ****** *****. This has been going on for some time without my knowledge but they decided to take it further and have both walked out on their families at the start of July.
I can happily provide evidence of the extent of this affair to anyone who asks.

Despite what you may have been told to justify their reasons for having this affair, I can assure you that W was very happy in her marriage until she was propositioned by OM and we had been planning to try for another child as recently as May/June. I am heartbroken and although we haven�t told our daughter the full extent of the details, her little world has been turned upside down too.
I understand OM has walked out on his wife and 2 young children also, and my sympathies are with them as I know what they are going through. I don�t know anything about their marriage, but I know I would never do that to a wife and the children that I profess to love.

I would appreciate it if someone would ask his parents to give me a call on ***********

SB, this is good, but it is too long and has too much superfluous information in it. Longer is not better, because you just lose their attention. I would chop out the parts I have crossed off.


How old is your daughter?

Instead of saying you can provide the evidence, can you just provide the evidence in this email?

Thanks ML. My Daughter is 4.

I would tell her all about the affair and explain the concept of adultery. She has already been introduded to the OM so she is probably very puzzled by this. I was introduced to my fathers OW at age 4 and this confused me terribly because what seemed wrong to me was apparently not wrong to the adults in my life. I learned to doubt my instincts about right and wrong. I even remember seeing my mother sitting on the edge of the bed in her slip sobbing but this confused me even more because no one said what was wrong.

If you don't teach her right from wrong, your wayward wife will teach her that wrong is right.

OK,

The other mans wife got in touch with me last night and we spoke for an hour on the phone. She hadn't been getting my pm's and said she would have been in touch sooner if she had.

It was good to talk to her and compare stories. She said that in the immediate aftermath of her husband telling her that he was leaving her, his family were very supportive towards her, would be there for her, yada, yada. Now it's a different story as they are poisoned by his lies and she hasn't heard from them in 3 weeks, he is saying that she was impossible to live with and drove him away.
He is living with his father- his mother is dead.

Lots of pieces of the story now make sense. We have established that nothing physical happened between them before they left us for sure, not that that helps.

Doing my exposure later today, would there be merit in the OM's BS confronting my wife? I wouldn't trust myself to meet the OM at the moment, he would love for me to hit him and that would do no good for me keeping my home and daughter.
The OM's BS also confirmed that it was my wife and OM's intention to live together in my home, that I built, the only thing that didn't go to plan for them is that I didn't move out. Thankfully I found the strength from somewhere to not do that.

The whole thing is so airy fairy and fantasy land it is unbelievable. My wife is gushing about him like a teenager with a crush, how beautiful he is and how he makes her feel so good about herself, it was meant to be etc...He really isn't- he is a baldy 35 year old man who looks about 45.

Will check back in when I have sent out these exposure letters.

Oh yes, by all means let her confront your wife.
She is obviously deeply in the fog and a tast of reality might do her some good.
Please expose to all exposure targets also on OM's side of the family. And post a happy family picture on facebook as your profile picture.

Your wife will see her affair in a different light if people know what she has done. Even if she will not admit it, the affair wil become tainted in her mind. Right now, she is still keeping up her fantasy bubble. It won't last.

Can you take 2 or 3 friends with you to constrain you if you confront the OM? It might actually scare him if he sees that they have to constrain you not to put an end to him, which may not hurt. Dr. Harley reccomends telling the OM that you are not going anywhere and that you will be there for your wife. This will make him see that they are not going to ride off in the sunset with hummingbirds all by themselves, but there will be the eternal husband riding next to them, so to speak. But again, only if you can prevent getting in trouble with the police for it.

You need to contact his father yourself. Can you go to his house?


That is very doubtful, but is not in the least relevant. Being "separated" does not justify adultery.


Absolutely!!


Good for you. Most men just move out, to my astonishment.

Be sure and expose to the workplace today!!

My ex wife was (and remains) in love with a convicted drug abusing child abuser and thinks he is totally cool!

It's critical that you wrap up these exposures and not drag it out because trickle exposure is not nearly as effective.

Don't disappear - please stick with us today and talk to us about what is happening so that we can provide the support and encouragement that you need to get this done.

I would encourage you to read other threads here about how to deal with affairs and how thy are turn out. I have found it helpful and in site full.

In the middle of doing the exposure, been at it for 5 hours now. Have a knot in my stomach. Some of the messages, even when I paid facebook to send them, came back with a message 'Your message could not be promoted and has been sent to the other inbox. Your money has been refunded.' I guess something to do with that persons settings.
Sent all the emails to her work from a new email account so it shouldn't be filtered, but might send some physical copies in the post to be sure.
Sick to my stomach. Probably sent like 100 messages so far and only 1 person has replied saying she will pray for us.
People are going to think that I am being heavy handed or controlling but I cant help what they think- doesn't really matter I know.
A lot of her friends will feel that they are caught between a rock and a hard place by trying to have some loyalty to her while being sympathetic to my position.

Ok, back to it now, say a prayer please.

Ok, Done... Phew. Only 2 people have came back to me so far, but I am not expecting replies, just wanted to get the truth out there.

Tried phoning OM's dad, no answer, will try again this afternoon. Met up with OM's BS last night, she is lovely and gave me some useful info on which family members to target etc.
She told me categorically that she will never have him back, she is done with him, but that's between themselves- I only want my wife back.

My sympathies are with the OM's BS though, and I apologised for my wifes part in wrecking her marriage. She seems strong. She doesn't want to confront my wife though and I won't force her. I am strongly thinking of going to confront OM to let him know that he will never be living in my house with my wife, loads of people have advised me against it though, they think it's a bad idea.

That POS is sitting waiting in the wings to step into my home and life with my wife. His BW told me that was their plans, and that I am the only stumbling block- they had expected me to crumble by now...

It's a bad idea to confront OM if you can't keep your cool. You cannot threaten him. You can tell him to back off and that you're going to make whatever changes are necessary to repair your marriage and that you'll never give up. You would also need to take a witness so that he can't beat himself up and claim it was you.

Here "I Encourage BHs to Confront OM" Dr. Harley

"Don't Put up with OM" per Dr Harley

Whatever happened to conviction and courage? It blows my mind how conflict-averse people are. Friends recommend against confrontation when they know your spouse is being banged by some low life? Doesn't make a bit of sense. I would have confronted this [censored] roach immediately upon learning that he was romantically involved with my wife. Just keep your cool but show that you are strong and a man to be reckoned with. I'd give him straight, unrelenting eye contact the entire you talk with him. No physical threats, but let him know in no uncertain terms that he's to stay away from your wife and you will be fighting for your marriage.

When and if your wife learns that you confronted him, deep inside she will like it that you're fighting for her. It shows you care. More importantly, you're letting the affair partner know that his affair isn't going to be a walk in the park. There is a heavy cost to it all.

Good job on exposing! She is going to be steaming when she learns about it. She will be apoplectic. Don't apologize. Be calm and let her know that you are fighting for your marriage. That is it. No reason or explanation will appease her anger at the moment. But down the road, if her fog clears, she will understand and appreciate what you did.

You've taken the first step in eliminating fear by exposing. Now carry out the plan by confronting the other man. Once that is done, be strong on the surface. Try to meet your wife's needs without being weepy or smothering. Be as strong and upbeat as you can (hard to do) and show your best self to her at all times. Make yourself look good and stay "neatly pressed" with polished shoes and the whole bit.

She is the one who is going to be depressed because her fantasy is shatttered and her affair is a dead end road. But she's still in the fog and it takes a long time for the affair to crumble, the addiction to die, and the love bank deposits you make to set in. Have patience, courage, and faith.

Good luck.

Who exactly did you expose to and what did you say? Did you follow the instructions in Exposure 101?

And, yes, I would send physical copies to be sure.

Yes, followed the instructions and templates there.

My wife and the other man just deleted both their Facebook accounts and history... she and him weren't actually friends on facebook, but her and I still were. Don't know how I feel, a bit sad that i have hurt her, but hey, she broke my heart.

She is away on holidays with her folks now, due back tomorrow so I fully expect a backlash from both her and her folks. I may have lost what little support I had. I text her a little while ago to ask about our daughter but no reply...

I have no doubt that he in particular will be fuming that I contacted his family, but f**k him. He completly wrecked mine.
I am shaking, bit scared of what I may have done. Everyone close to me advised against it, but I suppose you people on the forum have seen it all before.

[/quote] I have no doubt that he in particular will be fuming that I contacted his family, but f**k him. He completly wrecked mine.
I am shaking, bit scared of what I may have done. Everyone close to me advised against it, but I suppose you people on the forum have seen it all before. [/quote]

Most people don't know how to successfully combat infidelity. They are clueless and only are concerned about feelings. The advice you get on this forum is tried and true thanks to Dr. Harley whose plan has saved thousands of marriages.

Exposure is hard, and there are consequences for it. But Dr. Harley says it is the best tool that you have at your disposal and it essential in the effort to kill the affair. You are doing the right thing.

Don't forget to change your own facebook profile picture to a loving family picture of you, your wife and your child. People will be looking at your facebook, so it may not hurt to see the two of you lovingly together.

That's a great idea, Double H.

You have done a great job!! Most people believe you should just give up your marriage. But it is not their ox getting gored so it is really easy to have such opinions when they don't have to suffer the consequences, isn't it? The truth is that they have no earthly idea how to save marriages. They have no clinical experience, no education and no track record. The advice we give you comes from a clinical psychologist who has successfully saved marriages for 40 years.

So please stop shaking. You have done the right thing.

Focus on getting to the OM's father and telling him about this affair. Don't stop until that is done! you are doing a great job!!! Stay strong!!

Thanks for all your comments and advice guys. Still plan on confronting OM in a day or 2 at his home to let him know he is not untouchable.

My wife and his Facebook pages are back up now with me blocked from my wifes and all their friends lists are hidden. That would be all his doing as she has no clue about computers & tech stuff, but he is in IT. He really is a manipulative POS.
I have all their friend lists in my word document if I needed them, so too slow d**khead! His BS said he will be so pi**ed that I contacted his family.

A little worried about the backlash tomorrow...I am due to have my daughter home tomorrow evening. Hoping my wife wont do something out of spite like going for sole custody or something, or trying to get me out of the house....

Finish your exposures TODAY. Go to the OM's house and expswe to his father.

And just EXPECT and plan on the waywards to go absolutely crazy. Just do not let it upset you. Just imagine that you have brought a crowd onlookers into the crack house to watch them get high. They are furious because you have ruined their high!

So, if your wife objects, just tell her you are spreading the good news. What could possibly be wrong with that? And be sure and EMAIL or call her parents and tell them everything the OMW told you. Every word. Make sure everyone knows it.

You have a lot of great posters posting to you, both new and long term posters. Notice MelodyLane has over 84 THOUSAND posts. Yes, I am guessing she herself has read this very same exposure story thousands of times, and has given the same advice every single time.

But at the end of the day, it is not the advice of 'this forum' it is the advice of Dr Harley himself. This is not always the easy path, but it is the brave path, the only path, if you want to save your marriage. And frankly, even if you did not want to save your marriage and chose to divorce (which nobody would fault you for), wouldn't you want everyone to know the truth about why you were divorcing, instead of listening to wild stories about how terrible you are?

Exposure is necessary no matter what path you take going forward. It gives you the very best shot at busting up this affair and saving your marriage. And even if that does not happen, it is STILL the right thing to do.

Why confront at his house? I'd do it at his work place. Don't go on his turf. But do confront him.

Ok, my wife just texted me to say she will be home from holidays early afternoon if I want to have our daughter early...looks like she is going to pretend that nothing has happened, that she is not bothered at all. How do I play this with her? Don't mention anything unless she does? Be pleasant enough with her?

Just ask her to end her affair. Tell her it hurts you terribly. Tell her what the OM's wife told you about replacing you in your home.

Did you finish your exposures? Did you expose to the OM's father? Did you tell your father in law what the OM's wife told you? That will be very impactful and you can't afford to miss those opportunities.

I've been following your thread. You're doing awesome!


Question to Melodylane and other vets on here:
I've seen you advise women to change the locks so the WS can't get in, and then law enforcement will have the courts sort out ownership of the home in the case of a divorce.

Do you ever recommend a betrayed husband do this to pre-empt his WS from doing that to him? Also, Sarmaghbhoy said he is "from Ireland" - I don't know if he lives there now or used to and is now in the USA - but if he's in Ireland, would that factor in to whether he could/should do that? I know the house is on her father's property which may matter.

In general, no. Husbands are not to lock their WWs out.

The difference has it's root in the fact that betrayed husbands are recommended to use Plan A for up to two years, whereas betrayed wives are to do a Plan A for no longer than three weeks, and then go into Plan B. You can't execute an effective Plan A by locking the other person out of the house. BHs are to remain as inviting as possible and attempt to win their WWs back.

OK, update. My wife dropped my daughter back with me at 2 oclock today and didn't mention anything to me at all about the exposure. That would be like her, she wouldn't want me to know that she was annoyed by it, she is very stubborn. It has to have affected her in some way, shame, guilt, even if she didn't acknowledge it. I'd say OM was pi**ed, it would have been him who deleted and then re set up their facebook profiles. He is the tech geek.
He is a manipulating ba**ard, he is pulling all the strings from his safehouse, telling her exactly what to say and do. They are away somewhere tonight and it's breaking my heart.

On him, I will be confronting him tomorrow evening- it's the first evening he has been around and the first oppertunity I will have. Have to be careful not to issue any threats, just going to tell him exactly what he is, a parasite, and that he will never be living in my home with my wife and child and he needs to understand that.

I am so low this evening...she has completely locked me out of her life and wont engage with me on any level, this is the same girl who was so in love with me in May and wanted nothing more than to have another child with me. I spoke to a good friend of hers last night and she cant believe it, she was singing my praises when they last met and told everyone that I was her 'rock'.
How can I ever win her back when she wont even look at me? She is going round as if she is floating on a cloud, like a teenager in love.
After this confrontation tomorrow, I suppose I just get on with my life as best I can. I can't ask her any more to end the affair- I have said it to her in every way imaginable and she doesn't care who she hurts. It's kinda an 'Us against the world' mentality with them, we don't care what anyone thinks.

On the exposure letters I sent out, I mostly got no reply as expected- I wouldn't know what to write back if I received it-, got a good few messages of support and sympathy from her extended family, a few unexpected nice replies from her friends, one reply supporting me from the OM's circle of friends. No negative replies.

So yeah, low tonight and sad, but after the confrontation with OM tomorrow, I suppose it's get on with things as best I can and sit tight.

Thank you all.

You've done great. Take someone with you when you confront OM. Or do it in a public place.

Good job, Sarm. Hang in there. Your wife is in a fog and her hurtful actions and cruel insensitivity are devastating. Sorry my friend. If you can break up this affair, and you're taking the right steps so far, she may one day snap out of it.

I'm surprised that she is not acting out in anger. That is almost always the reaction. Your wife's cold, analytical approach to her affair is outside of the typical wayward script, but her callous indifference to your feelings is not.

Good luck confronting the POSOM. I'm glad you're doing it, but, again, I don't suggest you do it alone at his home. Doing it at his workplace will disarm and embarrass him. And if there are others around, he can't accuse you of doing something you didn't do. Speaking of which, you might carry a VAR with you, or record the conversation on your cell phone.

If you need (limited) acces to her postings on FB, here's a trick. She (or OM) blocked you to see anything on their FB. Often "friends of friends" can see more than a blocked contact.
A lot of people play stupid games on FB and need friends to get lives in those stupid games. Those people accept almost any invite, as long as it enebles them to play *insert stupid game like candy crush*.

You can register a new FB account, befriend some stupis game players with 1000+ friends, then become friends with some of his/her game playing friends. Use a new mailadress to register, different browser, so you keep your snooping account away from your own account. FB is very good at connecting "people you may know" by using cookies.

When you are "friend of a friend", you can use google to search. Search "site:facebook.com" + "facebook name of spouse/OM", search web as well as images. Google cache may also give usefull info.

Setting up a snooping account now may prove usefull in the future, if you want to snoop after "no contact" has been established.

OK, big update time. Well, after my wife being all cool yesterday about the exposure letters and pretending it didn't annoy her, it was time for the main target this evening, the OM.
He lives about an hour away, so after work my brother and I left to pay him a visit. I was somewhat nervous, but confident I could control myself and I wore a wire so I could record what happened. We arrived at his fathers house where he is staying and I parked down the street a little so he couldn't see us coming. His car was parked outside so it looked like he would be in.

I knocked the door over and over, there were no lights on inside or sign of life, so I figured it must be out for a jog, he does that sometimes. We left to call back again. I got a text from an ally saying that he was definately in so we called back 5 mins later....car was gone, the fu**ing yellow bast**d was inside all along, cowering. We went and got something to eat and called again 1 hour later- the car was in the driveway and was warm so knew he was there, knocked on the door loudly for 10 minutes with no reply- we had seen the tv on and be turned off in this time so knew he was there, he was hiding. I didn't want to be there too long so we left after saying through the letterbox; I will be back, you yellow bast**d.

Got home to my mother in hysterics- my wife had phoned her. Apparently the OM, whilst cowering, had phoned her saying that we were beating the windows, saying that we were going to 'get him', and that he was going to call the police. Total lies, and I have the voice recording to prove it. Scumbag.
My wife also let it slip that she was fuming that the chief executive of her workplace had got my exposure letter along with some work colleagues in NYC, she asked why did these people have to know and insisted to my mother that she wasn't having an affair, that it was different!
So, I suppose the desired anger finally came out. She told my mother that she had made her decision and couldn't help her feelings- my mother said, of course you can, you are married with a daughter...she had no reply!
Wife also said she didn't want to see me arrested.

So, I was buzzing after seeing what a coward I am dealing with and really want to confront him at his workplace, but have been told not to, that he could claim harrasment and call the police. I haven't done anything so far except knock on a door and I am confident I can control myself to confront him again...thoughts??

You did great!! I would back off now because pansies do desperate things like call the cops. He is like most OM, in that he is a wuss and a coward. So the way you run that piece of crap off is wide spread exposure. If there is anyone on his side who hasn't been told, I would finish that up. What about his father? What about his Facebook contacts? Have you reached them all?

Very SMART of you to record your interaction!! You did very well, my friend!!

This is the OM:

here is sarmaghboy:

So he called your wife to rescue him? That cannot be very attractive. It's surely going to help her wake up to the fact that he's a loser.

Please protect me!!! WAAA WAAAA!!!

Be sure to share the news with your WW. Tell her what really happened, and how he behaved like a coward, and offer to let her listen to the recording. She won't do it, but she will know that you are telling the truth, and that her AP is a weasel. You've just put a big chink in his armor.

Oh, and kudos to your awesome mom for not sugarcoating things with your WW. Very well played by both of you today.

Good job sarmaghbhoy1!!

Yup OM is a typical spineless coward.

Keep it up!!

Oh.....you are messing up all their fun.

They are going to desperately try to paint you as the bad guy here to recapture the joy they are buying into with each other.

Prepare for hostility like you have never witnessed from your wife before. Threats of legal actions, etc.

Stay focused and do not get pulled into arguments.

Ok, really quick update, will update properly later...turns out they are really pissed after all- about the exposure letters, confrontation attempt etc! The OM is apparantely going to report me to the police for harasassment- all I did was knock on his door, wouldnt think he has a leg to stand on. My wife said she didnt want this to happen to me and wanted to talk. I said that I haven't talked to her properly in the 6 weeks since she left as she always has her walls up and wont talk to me as we should or open up at all. She said she would talk to me tonight and is coming over in 40 mins.

I don't expect much to change but if I could continue to put some doubt in her mind, that would be great. I am going to tell her I did what I did because I love her and want our marriage to work, that I am fighting for both of us as she cant fight for herself right now, and that I will continue to fight for us.

Hopefully the wife I know turns up and not the stranger that has been here for 6 weeks or so. Any tips, make them quick...

I will also let her know that there is a way back to an even better marriage, that the door is open to her.

Thanks

Do not appologize for exposing. Just tell her you love her and want your marriage to work. She may not show or even acknowledge it, but women love it when a man stands up and protects her and fight for her. women love strong men, or those that give that impression. It is a primal instinct. You can be sure that your unwavering strength in fighting for her and OM'S COWARDICE will be recorded by her fogged out mind subconciously.

Stay calm and repeat like a broken record that you love her and want your marriage to be better than before. It is not wrong to say that the affair is hurting you, but focus on her needs (plan A) and ending the affair.

there are excellent ideas on after exposure convedsation in Melodylane's exposure thread.

The OM does not have a leg to stand on. Don't worry about that.

Don't include anything about her not thinking clearly or not being able to do certain things. Just focus on letting her know that you can build a new and happier marriage together and that you are fighting for that reason.

Yes, this. And let your wife know that if he calls the police you would enthusiastically meet with them to share what really happened. Her AP doesn't want that.

Your wife hasn't shown hysterics outwardly. She's much cooler than most in this regard, but inside things are churning like a tornedo, even if she doesn't show it. If she questions exposure, just tell her you are asking people to support your marriage, which you are not giving up on. Leave it at that.

If she asks about your visit with other man, I would tell her that you are fighting for your marriage and that you visited him to tell him to stay away from my wife. But also mention that he was too afraid to answer the door and that he hid from you. Paint a picture of him as a coward. This will work in your favor big time.

Stay calm, show confidence, and be the picture of reasonableness. Don't argue. Don't educate. Don't cry. Don't pander to any accusations she makes. Avoid disrespectful judgments. Just make it clear that you are strong, you are fighting for your marriage, and you are offering a safe landing spot when the affair is over. Also mention that you have a plan for a marriage that is happy, romantic, and fulfilling.

Ok, she just left after 2 hours. We spoke calmly the whole time, no shouting or arguing. I did let her know that I thought what she was doing was wrong and that it was the wrong choice.
I told her that I thought that she had been manipulated and that he will show his true colours in time and she will realise that she had made a bad choice.

We talked about what had been wrong in the marriage, she is of the belief that I made some bad financial decisions over the years and that it had contributed to prolonging her depression due to stress levels. I held my hands up to making some bad decisions, but that I had always been there for her during her illness and had always wanted what was best for my family fundamentally. She also accused me of being a perfectionist in everything I do and that it was only stuff...

She said that we hadn't been happy for 4 or 5 years and that there was constant pressure over money- there was to a certain extent and I know that money is the only thing we ever argued over in all our years together. We had of course been happy most of the time, but she is rewriting history to suit her story.

Anyway, she told me that the OM had asked her 4 or 5 times over the past couple of months to be together with him and that he loved her. She rebuffed him until she said that she couldn't fight her feelings anymore and that she loves him so much and that he is the man for her. She doesn't want to hurt anyone especially me but that she had to do what is right for her for the first time in her life- that she had always put other people first her whole life.

She calmly asked me if I was getting all the support that I need from friends and family and said she hoped that I could move on with my life from here and find happiness. She is so determined that this is real love that it is hard to see how she will ever come out of it. I am so sad.

She asked me why I had done all those things this week, the emails and the confrontation, I said that I was fighting for my marriage and family and would continue to do so until the day I die.
She said I was going completely the wrong way about it and that I had hurt her so much and put her in a very awkward position at work- she wanted to know the logic behind it....I said again that I was fighting for my marriage and I would one day explain it to her.

Anyway, I held her hands and, looking into her eyes, told her that we could have a marriage that could be happier than we ever had been, we could make the changes to do that. She asked what I wanted in an ideal world- I said for you to come back so we can do what we need to to make this better...she said but I would be in love with another man, I said that we could address that but there needed to be no contact, she said that she wasn't willing to do that and that she was moving on and planning her new life with him now.

So all very amicable but I am no closer to winning her back. She said she wanted for us to be friends, I said that I would never be just friends, that we are married and I loved her unconditionally.

What the hell do I do now...just get on with my life as best I can?
I am heartbroken at how calm & matter of fact she is about it all.
I was strong for the most part, but did cry when I talked about she had went to OM for emotional support when I was right there for her, longing to be loved.

Feeling empty.

She's in the fog. The stuff she is saying is straight out of the wayward handbook. You can't go by what she's saying right now. Once the affair ends she will not believe she said these things.

Great job!!!! I have so much more hope for you today than I did the first day you arrived. You have done a wonderful job. Now, all you have to do is stand back while the affair crumbles, making yourself the more attractive option. MAKE SURE that you have caused as much havoc as possible for the OM. One of my concerns is that you have no spoken to his father. That is a critical exposure.

I would also call her father and try to enlist his help. Tell him about your W's plan to replace you with this other woman's husband. Make sure he knows that his daughter has wrecked TWO families for this POS who has no respect for marriage and certainly no respect for your wife.

I would also tell your wife that your child is to never be exposed to her vile affair. The OM is an unfit adult and should never be around your daughter.

MELODYLANE<---------Feeling OPTIMISTIC!

Thank you. I needed something positive. After the high of last night I am about as low as I could be. The scary thing is how methodical and organised she is being. She cant see anything other than her being with him. It's hard. They are painting me as a psycho husband and said her work friends saw me as that.
I know this bast**d pursued her but she sees that as 'getting what he wanted', no guilt displayed whatsoever, her happiness comes first.
Since her depression, all she has read were these self help books, tiny buddah etc, all idealistic clap trap. She is way too intense for her own good. Please tell me there is hope...

The OM is treating his wife like crap, trying to convince her she has mental issues etc to get the kids off her. Also being really nasty, trying to force her to sell house so he can get his cut. Classy guy.

Things look dark because WW is trying to discourage you so you will stop fighting the affair.

You are in good hands here. Do not despair or give up. This is trench warfare.

Affairs are irrational. It will not work out for her. Maybe some people that she's lied to think you're crazy, but most people are more than likely disgusted with her. Even in this day and age the vast majority of people view adultery as morally wrong.

I appreciate what everyone is saying but what more can I do? I cant fight the affair any more than I have done. The OM's father is 73 with heart problems, I don't want to harass him. Apparantly he has said that his son is an 'excuse of a son' after he learned of what happened.

The only trump card I havn't played is that the OM's BW's parents are willing to meet my Father in law and set him straight on the type of guy OM is. He has been treating his wife terribly for months and wont pay child maintenance. It is worth pursuing I suppose, every little helps...

Like ML said earlier, once you're done exposing the affair you just have to wait for it to crumble. Hopefully your WW will be one of the ones that realizes quickly that it isn't going to work for her.

I agree you should not "harass" him, but you HAD BETTER EXPOSE THE AFFAIR TO HIM. Don't even think for a second that you can skip that KEY, CRITICAL exposure. I know some people believe that old people are idiot savants and just useless human beings, but we have had many parents who intervened and saved marriages.

I have told you MANY times to expose to the OM's father and I do not understand why you have not!!! Why would leave an opportunity like that sitting on the table for absolutely no good reason?

I have been spending my valuable time helping you and you just ignore the advice - given many times - to expose to the OM's father? WHY?

A damn 72 year old man has been through many more trials and tribulations than you, so I can't imagine where you got the idea they are too fragile and/or stupid to handle bad news. Do you imagine it will be the first time in his 72 year life he ever got bad news??

Trust me, a 72 yr old can handle bad news much better than you!!

Look how your mom pierced through your wife's fog with her strong remarks. You don't think that made an impact? I assure you it did. So don't forfeit a chance with the OM's father. Expose.

You have done great. You have the inside track. Don't forget that. You are the father of her child. The OM is not even taking care of his own children, let alone that he will want to take on a strange one. As was said earlier in this thread everything that was said and done by you are pebbles thrown into the water. You don't see any change, but in time, the heap of pebbles will break through the surface.

You stayed calm during the conversation and so did she. When she was gone, you could let out your feelings and it will be the same for her. She does have conflict inside, but will never show you of course. A coward like OM is not attractive and he will slip up here and there and things will slowly add up in her head.
Have patience.

It may be a good idea to have the OM's wife tell your parents-in-law what a negligent husband OM is. Parents want someone who will take care of their daughter and he is not even taking care of his own family.

You have done great and have speeded things along. Many people you have exposed to will agree with you, especially people who have been betrayed themselves. You never know who will make an impact in this process and the bonus is, that your wife and OM will forever be the persons who wrecked 2 families.

Thank you all for your kind words. It's hard to see the positives at the minute. My wife also said last night that she doesn't regret leaving me at all and even if it doesn't work out with this guy she wouldn't come back. It's so cruel. All I ever did in life was my very best for my family, I am a dam good father & husband & have done my best to give them both a beautiful home. I know I shouldn't pay any attention to what she says as it's not real or true.

On the OM's father, I will try to phone him again but the OM is still threatening to report me for harassment.
I do know from an ally that his father is disgusted with him and has descried him as 'an excuse of a son'.
They are not answering their door anymore and are very wary of visitors.
My wife asked me what I was going to do to OM had he answered the door- I just said I wanted to look him in the eye & tell him that there would be no happy ever after for him with my wife and tell him exactly what I thought of him. She said she would set up a meeting if I wanted but not to go to his house again. I doubt the yellow bast**d would agree to it but who knows?

Don't you get it? I'll bet this is going to be the last straw for the OM's old man. He will probably throw the bum out when he learns about it. It is precisely this exposure that the OM fears the most. That is why you are experiencing all of this bluster.

It's true. POSOM doesn't want to get in twuble with daddy.

Look up the harassment law in your state, but unless POSOM has power of attorney over his father, he has no standing to claim you're harassing his father. One contact does not harassment make.

EXPOSE TO THE OM's father!!! You have no idea what the father knows or doesn't know. Let the OM "report" you for harassment. You can report him for harassment for having an affair with your wife! Let him explain that to the police.

Now, go expose to the OM's father, and don't stop until you have done it!!

Also, considering you have not even made contact with the OM, I don't see how he can possibly get you for harassment. My ex's AP apparently reported me to the police multiple times, but I never heard anything from the police.

Contacting the OM's father has nothing to do with "harassing the OM." Actually, he is harassing you by having an affair with your wife.

I will be trying to phone the OM's father tomorrow but I don't expect him to answer. I will write him a letter and post it to him with my contact details and ask him to phone me for a chat. I am also going to set up a meeting between my wifes father & the OM'S betrayed wife's parents so he can hear what the POSOM's really like. I am also trying to think of other ways to make OM's life uncomfortable.

I messed up this morning. I had asked my wife to drop my daughter home by 9.30am so I could take her to mass. Last night for the first time since my wife left I had a bit of a blow out and drank a lot at home with my brother & brother in law. It was good to have their company & switch off for a while from the pain of the last few weeks.
Anyway I slept in this morning & my wife came upstairs with my daughter & asked if she should take her away again. I got up straight away & said no, it was fine. There were beer cans in the kitchen & my brother was sleeping on the sofa. I didn't want this to happen or my wife to see this obviously but she did. It won't happen again. I know I fuc**d up. Should I apologise?
I did get up & took my daughter to mass as planned and am fine today but I regret giving my wife that ammo. I should have been whiter than white but for the first time it felt good to talk about something else & have some sense of normality.

Can you disguise your phone # and call the OM's house when you know he is at work? In the US we can dial *67 and disguise our #.

And no, I wouldn't apologize to your wife, but why are you drinking?? You need your wits about you and you certainly need to be very buttoned up.

Thank you Melody, you have been a great help through this. I can withold my number but he might not answer it then as it will say 'number witheld'. I will try that first thing in the morning and if that doesn't work I will write a letter to him asking him to contact me. He is the only person that I can't get to so far and I appreciate that he is key, even if it is just for him to hear the truth of what his son has done.

I just spoke to my wifes father & asked him to meet with the OM's BW's parents so he can get a true sense of what a scumbag OM is and how he has been treating his wife even before all this.
He agreed and told me that he is on my side in this and wants nothing more than a reconciliation for both of us. It was nice to hear that. So I am gonna set this meeting up this week.
It feels good to actually be trying to do something to fix this rather than just enabling the affair.

I am wondering what else I can do to make OM uncomfortable or make things difficult for him. He is a spineless coward & the sooner my wife sees him for that the better.
I don't need police on my case though and I know he has already been to see them. He has nothing on me at all though, I just knocked his door.

OR, could you have a friend use their phone to call him and then hand the phone to you when he answers?


BRAVO!!!! That will be a huge hit on the affair. Be sure and tell your wife's father about the plan your wife had to move him and move you out.


It sure does, doesn't it!! You have done a super job!!


Will your wife's father meet up with this [censored] and tell him to buzz off? That would be an enormous help. This dirtbag will ruin her life and it would help if you and your FIL went over to see the OM and his father together. I bet he won't be so anxious to throw call the police on your FIL!!

Do you live in Ireland now? My great grandfather came from Ireland, county Leitrim. We have relatives there and in County Sligo.

It would help if her father would tell the OM that he will never be welcomed into his family and will not be allowed to darken his doorstep. That will throw a huge glitch into fantasy land.

And just think what kind of guy this. He is a married man who has busted up 2 marriages in pursuit of his selfish interests. That is the kind of guy your WW is pursuing.

All of the traits that made the affair possible will make into their relationship: deceit, selfishness, thoughtlessness. This is why 95% of affairs fall apart in under 2 years. Their relationship is doomed from the start. Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist with 45 years experience and here is what he says about "affairages" on his radio show: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2233

I would go to your father in law and tell him what Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair says about affair marriages. We have had untold # of troubled affairages show up on this board over the years. They are always a disaster. Please take him that radio clip I posted above and show him this post which was written to an OM who had married his OW:

Thanks again Melody for the advice....and everyone else. This really is my goto place for comfort & reassurance. Most people in my life mean well but don't understand what I am going through and why I am fighting for my marriage.

I live in Ireland, yes. In Co Armagh, about 1 hour from Leitrim. I have friends there.

Ok,

Couldn't get an answer at the OM's fathers house this morning so I wrote a letter to him and if I post it this afternoon, he will have it tomorrow. Best I can do. I hand wrote the letter and added some pics of our family in so he can see what his son is ruining. I printed the address on the envelope so it looks official.

On the meeting of my FIL and the OM's BS's parents, it looks like it will have to be next week as it doesn't suit them both this week. Not ideal, but at least it will happen. The OM's BS is being a real help and a good friend in all this- she has nothing to gain by my wife and I reconciling as she doesn't want to have her WH back ever. She is doing it purely as she wants to see him broken and left on his own after all of this. I can't blame her for that.
My FIL is not willing to meet OM which is a pity. He is on my side but he does have certain loyalties to his daughter after all. Maybe after he meets the other BS's parents, he will change his mind.

you can get the post office for a small amount of money to officially deliver the envelope to a particular person. Then the OM father will have to receive the letter and sign a receipt that he got it.

certified letter is safer than normal post, becaus OM cannot receive the letter for him and throw it in the trash.

I was exactly where you are at today 4 years ago after my FWW's A. I am happy to say that our M is recovered now. I know how difficult this is for you. It was the hardest thing I have ever gone through in my life. It is still difficult at times.

There is no quick fix.

Expose is only 1 step in trying to R your M.

What were her primary complaints about you? Why did she fall out of love with you?

Addressing all of these issues and correcting them can influence her over time that she could be happy and in love with you. Right now, she sees no possible way to ever be in love with you.

You have to try to change this perspective.

LB's and HNHN's were truly eye opening to me. They helped me focus on MY choices and gave me insight as to how to be better husband and person. This is what I chose to focus on and it was very empowering to me to really become a much better person. I don't blame my W for falling out of love with me. I had a lot of poor behaviors which I have changed for the better!

Exposure helps to speed up the death of the A. Right now, she isn't in love with you. Your goal should be to ELIMNATE ALL LB's and try to make as many LB deposit as possible.

You can do this.

Ok, first of all thank you for all of your words of encouragement, they mean a lot and it's great to hear success stories.

Few little bits of encouragement today. Got the letter posted today to OM's dad. OM will be out at work when the post arrives and his father is retired so should get it first hand. I left my details and asked him to call or meet me, whilst also giving him the true version of events.

I have the meeting set up between my FIL & OM'S BS's parents. He really is being a nasty piece of work to his wife & family so it will be good for FIL to hear that.
Also since my exposure & doorstep visit to OM, a lot of his family have turned on him and told him he needs to move out as it affecting his father's health & he should deal with the consequences of his decision!
His BS has told me when he called to collect the children he looked wrecked and gaunt and told her he had had a 'tough week'!
Excellent! Exposure seems to have had the desired effect on them both, despite their outward coolness.
My wife texted me this evening to ask if she could speak to our daughter, she sounded a bit low & sad. I'd say she had had a tough day at work & somebody said something or the shine is coming off the Affair a little! Up until last week everything had been so easy for them.
The other thing that may have happened is that the OM may have told her they need to get a place together. Anywhere she gets won't be local and will mean even less time near home and our daughter. Although it breaks my heart to think of them living together, it may be what's needed to give her a dose of how real life is going to be for her from now on.
Should help to burst the bubble she is in.

So all in all, not a bad day... hopefully my letter to OM's father will put a cherry on it.
After this week, just move on with plan A & work on myself?
I will also study Surviving an affair & His needs, her needs.

You might as well empathically ask her if she had a tough day at work, if she sounds low (without mentioning exposure of course).

Exactly! I encourage you to focus on the things within your control. Clean up your side of the fence and try to get her to fall in love with you again.

What are her primary complaints about you and what can you do to not duplicate those behaviors ever again?

What did you do to get her to fall in love with you when you first met?


You cannot control what she does or the choices she makes. You can however focus on your choices. Right now, she does not see you as someone she can be in love with again. Exposure is a great idea to break up the A. But that is only the beginning of this process of R.

Your changes must be genuine and forever. This goes for both of you.

She said that I worked too hard, was too focused on trying to achieve perfection in everything I do, rather than appreciating what I had in front of me. Financially, she said I always made the wrong decisions which put us under undue pressure. I guess I was too focused on providing the perfect home for my family and we didn't have enough quality time together, date nights out, cinema etc.

I need to let her see that I have changed for the better and that I can provide a nice home for us while at the same time dedicating time for us as a family.
I genuinely was there for her emotionally and every other way, but she tuned out as soon as she began having this Facebook relationship with her co worker. I longed to talk to her, but she wouldn't give me that chance, he was doing my job.

So yeah, gonna look after myself and try to change for the better and hopefully be there for her when this POSOM slips up.
Thanks for the advice

You are absolutely correct. The book you should be reading now is Surviving an Affair. Focus on that and the program it describes for recovery. Look for any opportunity to cause havoc in the affair. You have been doing a great job so far!!!

Take a hard look at the couple Sue and Greg in SAA. You will see what happens when Sue moves in with her OM, Greg. It wrecks their affair. That is why you shouldn't worry about them moving into together. Affairs are not so much fun anymore once the light of day shines on them.


Absolutely! Focus on these 2 areas: a) killing the affair and b) being the most attractive option out there. With all the conflict you caused in the affair, it will start crumbling. And there is a lot of love busting and fighting in affairs!!

Typically, waywards manufacture grievances to justify their affairs, so the best you can do is present yourself as the most attractive option for now and when/if this affair is killed, you will have a chance to create a great marriage. I think you have a great chance at killing this affair.

I want to also point out that if you do reconcile, she will have to quit that job. Recovery will be impossible if she continues to work with the OM. You have no leverage here today, but keep this in mind as you go forward. Read the checklist of extraordinary precautions from Surviving an Affair in order to get an understanding of what needs to happen if you reconcile.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

I know that and made it clear to her when we spoke the other night. That is a huge sticking point for her as she loves that job, almost to an unhealthy level. There is no way I could have her back knowing she was working in the same place as OM or would encounter him at all. It has to be zero contact as per the guidelines.

She said she was not willing to do that, hopefully that will change at some point. Maybe her workplace atmosphere has been tainted a little by the exposure letters.

While you are attacking the affair, you can also Plan A your wife.
When she called feeling blue -- that would have been a great opportunity to invite her over. When she is missing your daughter, invite her over to spend time with her. Let her come help with bathtime, or tuck in. She will resist spending time with you, but it will be hard to resist the little girl!

When you have daughter, invite your wife on outings. Invite her for dinner. Keep inviting, even though she will turn you down. Just be cheerful and keep inviting. Maybe next time!

Great advice Lexxxy, thank you. At the minute, as you say, she wouldn't accept as she won't let her barriers down when she is with me. I do know she missed our daughter yesterday, I should have invited her over for a little while. Next week!

It is so hard to be cheerful and positive with her when I know her love is for someone else at the minute. I texted her to ask her something about our daughter today, but no reply.
I never want to be 'just friends' with her.

And you won't be "just friends" with her.

She gets this version of you while you are in Plan A.

But it doesn't hurt to foreshadow PLan B. If she continues to reject your offer to restore your marriage and family, eventually you will end all contact with her.

She doesn't get both of you. She doens't get to have OM meeting certain needs, while still relying on you for family support, financial support and other EN's that you are meeting.

That is one of the reasons the affair will fail -- OM is simply unable to meet all of her ENs. He hasn't a chance of meeting her "family" EN. She just isn't placing importance on that one YET.

Ok, maybe people don't care about this but I will post updates anyway. My wife was supposed to collect our daughter at 6.30, she arrived at 6.15 and couldn't wait to get out. I asked her to let our daughter finish her dinner & sit down for a minute, in the nicest possible way. It almost seems like she doesn't want to see what she has left or 'absorb' family life at all if that makes sense.

She did sit on the couch for 10 mins with us as we spoke to our daughter, I asked her how was her day, fine was the reply.
She then went out to the kitchen and stood to wait for our daughter, I asked her again if everything was ok....fine.

She definately was irratable and looked drawn and tired. Wondering if word filtered back about the letter to OM's father?!
Hopefully work is a bit tougher on them both now too since the exposure.
Small steps, I will keep trying- who knows, in time maybe she will have a cup of tea or a drink??

I carried our daughter out to the car and was as cheerful and cordial as I could manage. The mad thing is that she is driving 500 yards on a private lane to her mother's house! I can literally look out the front window & see their house.

you did great!! Go read wifedivorcing's thread if you haven't already. He did a GREAT Plan A. Plan A is 2 pronged, killing the affair and doing your best to present an attractive alternative. When she comes to the house, make sure the house is very nice, clean and pleasant. You want her to miss all that.

And yes, I do appreciate the updates very much. Keep them coming! They are relevant to your progress and tell me where her head is at. The affair is under fire, which can only stress her out.

I for one love updates, I try to read every ones threads and compare it to my progress, or not progress. Seeing others light at the end helps keep the little hope I have left alive.

It's a hard battle to be fought and alot of times it all feels for not.

Thanks guys. Ok, busy evening. I had a phone call from a strange mobile number this evening, I answered it cautiously. It was a family member of the OMs side who was calling on behalf of OM'S father. He was lovely and totally sympathetic to my cause and said he would be praying that I could restore my family. He said that OMs father received my letter today but is in poor health & has got decidedly worse since all of this mess. He asked this family member to contact me on his behalf to thank me for the letter & pass on his apologies for his sons actions.

Anyway, the whole family are disgusted with OM & he has been told to move out of his father's home and deal with his decisions. Nobody in the family circle are speaking to him except the one who contacted me as he is acting as an intermediary between OM & his BW. He was genuinely embarrassed when talking to me and so apologetic for OM'S destructive actions. He actually referred to it as predatory behaviour and said as a father of three himself, he will be using any influence he has to help me reunite my family.
The only problem is that nobody seems to be capable of changing OM's or my wifes minds. They certainly are under pressure though because of my actions last week and I seem to have ruined the honeymoon period.

One piece of advice he did give me in confidence was not to try to contact OM again as he is primed for police intervention, feckin coward.

He was very helpful on the whole and a really nice guy who was genuinely upset at how this has happened. I assured him I would not contact OM'S father again due to his health issues, but he told me to contact him directly if I need to and he will help me in whatever way he can.
He said he wants the same outcome as me, the reunification of my family and wished me luck.

Don't trust any of OM's family. It sounds promising, but be very cautious.

Ok, I would contact the OM's wife and verify this story. It may well be legitimate, but it is not uncommon for a wayward to intercept such a letter and have someone call/email/text on their behalf to make you think the affair was exposed. Your marriage is under a full scale assault and there is very little you can take at face value.


What changes their minds is the pressure of exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure ruins them. What you have done by exposing to the OM's family is ruin your wife's hopes of integrating into his family. She will be ashamed to show her face around there now.

When you speak to her, I would discuss this conversation you had with the relative. Tell her that the OM's family, specially his father, know all about the affair and do not approve. Tell her the negative comments this man made about the OM and be sure and ADD that you are "so sad that she will never be accepted into his family because of the affair..."

Telling her this will ruin her hopes of a future with the OM.

You should also tell her parents.

Ok,

Story confirmed & verified by OM's BW. Big family meeting at OM's fathers house where he was told he needed to move out. He angrily told them 'that they all needed to get over this' and sped off in his car.

This would explain my wife's irritable behavior with me this evening as he probably went running to her saying what a bad man I was...

So, is that a result??

you did great!!!!!

yep, you are the "bad man!!!"

You popped the fantasy bubble with your assertive exposure. Well done and congratulations. And Kudos to the family for standing by what is right and just. If only more families responded this way.

Now you can turn your energies to being a strong, caring husband. Groom yourself. Polish your shoes. Wear cologne. Continue being a great dad. Be upbeat and positive. Confident and humble. Don't fawn and don't smother, but show you still care. When opportunities arise to make a kind or caring gesture seize it.

This is the stage that takes patience because it will take a long time for the fog to dissipate. And you will have to keep making love deposits with no reciprocation. This is where heroes are made.

Gratz on a victory, I hope you have many more victories to come.

Thank you all for the kind words of encouragment.

The only thing I really still have to do is take my FIL to meet OM's BW's parents so he can hear first hand what a POS the OM is and how he has treated their daughter and his children. This meeting has been scheduled and agreed for next Monday.

After that, I guess I have done all I can with regards exposure. As much as i would like to confront the POSOM, I think that he will go to the police and it won't help my case- people would see that as harrassment and some sympathy towards my side may be lost.

At the minute, the truth is out there now and the letter I sent to OM's father was shared at the meeting of OM's family, so some people that I missed with the Facebook exposure heard the full truth, not OM's version.

As I said earlier, OM's family are furious with him for what he is doing, his BW's family are gunning for him too, some people at his work probably are too, and my wife's family for the most part never want to meet him (except for my wifes mother who is crazy and has her own mental health issues).

OM has to get somewhere else to live, but I have been told in confidence that my wife is not moving in with him (at the minute), and is to continue living at her parents home.
We have agreed sharing of our daughter, with me having her 4 nights a week in our family home, and my wife having her 3 nights a week in her parents home.

Practicalities:

I am self employed and have always got our daughter up and ready for pre school in the morning as I can be flexible. I also collect her. My wife has always worked 1.5 hours away and leaves at 6.30am, returning around 6.30pm.

I don't see how my wife can move somewhere else without compromising time spent with our daughter, she won't want to do that.
OM won't be able to get a place anywhere near our home due to the widespread knowledge of his affair with my wife.

At the minute, the minimal contact I have with my wife is when she is picking up or dropping off our daughter at our family home. She usually comes in, but doesn't stay long. I need to use that time wisely from now on and try to be the perfect husband/dad, and maybe she will begin to see that her family EN's can be met here and nowhere else, maybe she will begin to see what she has left. I am always going to be home from work on time, avoid working Saturdays (which she hated), and do everything I possibly can without smothering to open her eyes to the perfect life she could have.

In any practical or rational way you look at it, this affair can't work, but (in my wife's words) love isn't rational...

They are going to be working together closely every day, then if they do live together, spending more time every evening.
The whole kids issue- he has 2 kids, one with severe autism, who he sees alternate weekends, as I said my wife and I are sharing my daughter, so there's that too.

OM's wife has told me that there is no way she would ever have him back- he has said and done too much to ever forgive.
I have been reliably informed by another person that the OM is a 'weirdo' who doesn't go out, no interests like sport, music etc, ZERO friends outside work & family who don't want to know him at the minute. So literally the only person he has is my wife.

He is not going to give her up easily, but eventually the character flaws that made him groom my wife and abandon his family have to show up in their relationship, don't they??
Little background on the OM- I have been told by his BW that their life was tough since the youngest child was diagnosed with severe autism and, in her opinion, her husband never really adjusted to it and couldn't handle the whole situation.

She said he changed after that, and in her opinion, wanted a way out but was too chicken to leave until he had a better option. Cue my wife- he had seen pictures of my home in the country, pictures of my family, my dog- a ready made life and thought 'I'll have a bit of that'. That sounds unbelievable, but that is exactly what would have happened had I left my home at the start- my wife and him had told people that's where they would live!!

OM is desperatly trying and bullying his BS to leave their family home and downsize so he can free up his equity in their home, no doubt so he has a lump of cash to try and force me from my home. It will never happen- regardless of what happens with my wife and I, I have built my home from scratch for my family and intend to bring up my daughter there, hopefully with my wife rightfully there with us.

OM is threatening his BW with courts etc, but there isn't a court in the land who would force her from her home til the kids are 18- she has been betrayed by him and is bringing up the 2 kids there. The little guy with autism needs his routine and familarity she has told me. OM is no longer paying the mortgage, my wife is no longer paying ours either.

On the whole, my wife and I's interactions are much more cordial and amicable and she hasn't mentioned the house or anything, as I had made it clear to her that I would never be leaving it. I also made it clear that it was her home too, she was welcome home but only as part of our family.

The OM's BW said to me- at least yous are talking, he is just being so nasty to me and they can't look at each other.

I do believe in her heart of hearts, she has had doubts- in the way she speaks to others she is so assertive that she is doing the right thing; " I am certain that I have made the right decision", "I am so happy with my decision"- it's almost as if she is trying to convince herself too.
She has always been stubborn and would never admit she was wrong, so this is going to be tough, but I have to believe that her position will soften, please God it will.

Everything that was dear to her was our family, our family home, family farm etc. All her core beliefs. If I thought she was a bad person, this would be easier- maybe I would have just given up on her. I know she is a great person who has done a bad thing, made a bad decision.

Based on what I have said, and I know there are no right or wrong answers, guarantees etc, does anyone with more experience of this have any thoughts on our position?

Obviously, I intend to follow plan A, whilst still trying to cause trouble for her affair when I can.

Thank you for reading.

***EDIT***

With respect Jedi_Knight, I strongly disagree. This is so far out of her character for her it's unbelievable to anybody who hears it. If I thought for one second this was in any way who she is, I wouldn't be trying so hard to save my marriage.

Granted, it is who she has become, hopefully for only a short while until she sees sense. I know she is very far from innocent in all this and is an adult who made her own choice, but we are all capable of making bad choices.

Yes.
That's one of the beauties of exposure -- it forces the waywards together in a way that rips away the fantasy. Before exposure, they are able to keep their relationship in fantasy land -- all "need meeting" and no demands of life or lovebusters. After exposure, the affair is brought into reality and that fantasy POPS like a bubble.

I disagree also Jedi.
You've spent enough time here to know that anyone is vulnerable to an affair, and will change their core beliefs and justify their behavior to fit the addiction of the affair.

Sarma --
This community is filled with success stories - and I predict yours will become one of them. Because you have followed the advice and processes here.

Now the affair will try to feed off of the sacrifices that they have made for each other -- and it will begin to die.

They will both become resentful towards each other because of what each has given up for the other. And they will feel that the other "owes" them. Neither will be able to live up to the very high expectations of being compensated for their sacrifice.

SB, your position is very cookie cutter. It is the RULE, not the exception. And I do agree that she has made up her mind... For TODAY. That will change because her decisions are made on her feelings du jour. Feelings change from day to day with an addict. What you have described here is a story we have heard a million times. And while there are no guarantees, we have seen much worse than this come back from the dead.

You are in a FANTASTIC position because there is no logic to her relationship. She won't be accepted in his family and he won't be accepted into her family. She can't bring him to her home. He is not the father of her child, you are. There are just way too many problems in the relationship for it to last. You have the distinct advantage on all fronts. All you have to do is sit back and enjoy the show! The affair will start to crumble and you can sit back and continue to present yourself as the best option.

Selfishness tends to bring out the worst in humans it seems like, it really does not matter what there core believes are. Top that with a addiction and you have a really bad combination.

Thank you Lexxxy for your kind words. I don't know why, but I do have a feeling we will work it out eventually and save our marriage. I have nothing to base that on but a gut feeling, but I pray it's right. Despite everything, I love her dearly and I am a lot more calm about the situation since I took control of it last week.
Sure, she is pissed at me right now, but it will pass I'm sure.

Thanks Prisca, I sincerely hope this fantasy pops like a bubble soon, but I will put in the work & be prepared for the long haul!

Thank you Melody, your posts have been an inspiration to me to push on with this- I am so glad I took control of things last week by exposing and confronting. I do have a lot of hope we can sort things out and rebuild our marriage- there's nothing I want more and I pray that she will realise what we had. As I said, I have nothing to base this optimism on but a gut feeling, but I will take that right now.

Small update, my wife came over this evening with our daughter- she was quiet and seemed pissed, she had probably heard all about the letter to OM's father and the family meeting.
I tried to be nice to her without being overbearing, asked about her car- she had car trouble today... at some point she will open up a little to me, I will keep plugging away.

Oh, and she wasn't wearing make up to work either (something she had been doing only for the past month or so). She looked tired also.

Whatever I have done, it certainly has taken the wind out of her sails a little, she is no longer in this state of 'euphoria' like a teenager in love, something she had been at pains to express before exposure, that she was 'so happy'!

I have great optimism for your situation and I have seen hundreds of cases over the past 14 years. Her affair is spiraling down. Did you get the book Surviving an Affair? You need to read the case study of Sue and Jon. That book is the bible of recovery.

Yep, I do have Surviving an affair & His needs, her needs. My bedtime reading! Thanks.

2 questions.

1. Do I stop mentioning anything about recovering our relationship until my wife mentions it? I have already been clear with her about my feelings, both in letters and in person.

2. Financial and legal. I can pay our mortgage and bills on my own, it will be tough, but I can do it. Alternatively, I can seek help with the mortgage etc from the government- I would be entitled to benefits and mortgage relief, but this may require me to declare a legal separation from my wife and she would obviously be contacted about that.

Should I hold off on that until plan B time?

1. You should communicate that you are willing to work with her in building a romantic marriage but she must first end her affair. Typically a good time to do this is when she starts talking about how she loves om, your marriage is over etc.

2. Dr. Harley would encourage you to take appropriate legal steps to protect assets during her affair. As for separation, the problem with legal separation is that the cheater views it as a Cheat Pass and further justification for the affair. Also, in plan A the wife should not be forced out of the marital home.

I would mention it fairly often. Tell her how much her affair hurts you and ask her to end it. You don't want her to think you don't care.


I wouldn't file for a separation at this point because that will send the wrong message. Instead, I would send her a nice email asking her to pay her part of the mortgage and the bills.

I chose to limit any heavy relationship talk with my FWW about anything while she was in the fog. It does no good. You have already seen this. I would not ask her for a single thing right now. (except for financial things you deem necessary)

When you see her, if you look great, act happy and upbeat she will be more willing to potentially be around you. If she anticipates heavy conversation, constantly telling her you love her, asking her to come home, telling her what she is doing wrong in her life...on and on... it will be a massive turnoff.

Keep active. Plan fun activities with your daughter. Invite WW to join in!

Having a warm environment by showing her what she is missing out on (NOT telling her), will plant seeds in her mind.

Have you really identified those things she did not like about your relationship. Are you showing her when you are around her that you have changed. Have you changed? I hope you are reading LB's and looking in the mirror.

Most importantly, I hope you realize how sensitive she is to pressure about anything relationship related.

She is sensitive to even the slightest hint of pressure and will push her away.

Thank you for your answers. She absolutely knows I want her back to work on our marriage, so I will maybe not push it for a while.

Small update, wife was here this evening dropping our daughter home, I was home before her and was clean and out of my work clothes. Our golden retriever is 3 today so I had a small cake for him (for our daughter's benefit really), my daughter blew out the candle and my wife stayed for 10 mins or so. I was as upbeat as I could be and smiled at her.

She wants to arrange sharing care of our daughter in September when she starts primary school 5 days a week. We are going to sit down some evening to do that when our daughter is in bed.
It will be a different schedule than now as she is only in school 2 days a week at the minute.
We will have to spend an hour or 2 doing that so it will be good to interact, even if it's a trivial task!

I also mentioned that I want to take our daughter to Disneyland in January for 4 nights (my brother & his family invited us to travel with them). My wife was upset at that, but I asked her if it was any different than last week when she was away for 4 nights with her.

Amicable but nothing encouraging would be how I would surmise her visit.

Maybe you can invite her along?

Would absolutely love her to be there Happyheart, but I already know the answer sadly. Maybe I should drop her a text & say we would love her there if she wanted to come?

Too desperate?

It's not desperate, it's Plan A. She needs to know that you would like her to be around.

You know the answer, but ask anyway. Then drop it and don't push her or beg her.

This is a debate and a lovebuster. Do not engage in conversations like this. She's upset, and that's okay. Don't debate her or compare her actions to yours.

Understood Prisca. Wife has gone to visit OM as her car has gone from her parents. Not going to text her tonight when she is with him, but will text her something in the morning saying that we would love to have her with us in Janurary.
Already know there will be no reply, but hey ho.

Good.

The point is not her reply and whether she says yes or no.

The point is that she will remember that you invited her, and wanted her. This will make it difficult for her to continue feeding herself the lie that you are some kind of uncaring monster and she is justified finding happiness elsewhere.

So, found out my wife and OM are spending the night in a Hotel. Tough evening for me. Sent her a text anyway, saying that my daughter & I would love her to come with us in Janurary, that option is there for her.
Dont expect a reply of any sort. This is a tough road.

I just wanted to say hang in there, it takes time and now is the time to stay on track and patient with your Plan A, you won't think it's working but it is.
Try to remember right now this isn't the woman you married she is deep in the fog, but like all wayward spouses it goes away in time and reality starts to show it's ugly head.
This is your best shot at keeping your family together, it's a short period of time in the big picture, you have great help here, let them walk you through it and keep you strong��
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you

Keep in mind that since you exposed them, tension between them is going to start growing. The hotel stay is not going to be as romantic as your wife probably imagines it will be. She's going to start seeing his true colors. You've made a major blow to the affair.

Im sorry she causes you so much trouble.
i remember when my ex wife was spending nights with OM and it was very stressful.
I encourage you to exercise during this time. It will help you stay healthy.

Thank you all for your advice. On an unrelated topic, I was wondering if it would be possible to slightly change my username or how do I go about it? It's purely for security reasons.

Thank you

Click on "my stuff" and "edit profile "

Thank you, done.

No updates today. Very low last night & today, feel like there's no hope. I know there is, but there are gonna be days like today I suppose.
My wifes sister told me I need to let her go, for my own sake, but it's easy for people who haven't been in this position to give advice like that. I know she means well. She said that, for now, my wife isn't changing her mind.
My wifes sister absolutely thinks that she is making the biggest mistake of her life, and said there is no excuse for infidelity, but she won't listen.

I won't see my wife or daughter til Sunday morning now.

will January be the first time your daughter visits disney?

if so, your WW is probably mourning that. No parent wants to miss out on their childs "firsts".

I would invite her - like you plan to. But if she says no, let that stand. It will eat at her as the time gets closer. And she knows that she has no one to blame but herself. Breaking up the family means that she is going to miss 1/2 of her daughters life. She will expect OM to make up for that loss, and it will increase the pressure on him.

Hi Lexxxy,

Yes, it will be our first visit to disney. My wife hasn't replied as expected so I won't ask her again. Planning on taking my daughter on the train to Dublin tomorrow & visit the zoo- she has never been on a train. Will ask my wife if she would like to go, but know the answer already.

I am aware that this is not a blog of my feelings, but this is tough. After being pro active for a week or 2, I feel helpless and useless now. Low days, today and yesterday especially.

My wife will be dropping our daughter here at 9.30am tomorrow. Will keep to plan A and avoid LB's.

It's mad. Everything she had here and has walked out on. I am a great person and she knows it. This OM is not even good looking- everyone says that I am much better looking than him....I hope that doesn't sound big headed & I know it's not important, just venting I suppose.

Anyway, blogging over. God give me strength to get through this and restore my family. Will check in tomorrow, night.

It is very, very common for waywards to affair down.

Are you on antidepressants? You might need them short term to get through this.

Based on my observations, they almost always affair down.
There are some who claim that people always affair up and it is based on a premise that people always seek improvement. It is a false premise as any objective person can see that many people do not seek self improvement.
There are some cases in which people could affair up, a common one would be a "rescue" when an abused person is removed from an environment and latches on to the "saviour" before a legal divorce.

First, never expect your wife to mourn anything. As Dr. Harley explains on his radio show, when a person's "Taker" is in control they only care about themselves. It is narcissistic behavior.
As for pressure on the OM, you are assuming he will be expected to fill a void. He will to an extent but only enough to please your wifes Taker. Many women walk away from their husbands and children today. I've been told by old timers that its much more common than at any other point in their lifetimes.

Just try to focus on Plan A and not on what is going on in their heads. You have enough work taking care of a 3 year old.
also make sure you keep a journal of daily events including when she is in the home and spending time with the girl.

A lot of WW with small children still have a very high need for family commitment. She will expect the new man in her life to replace her husband as a father to her children -- he can't, and it will put a major strain on their relationship.

This gives the BH an advantage.

Some women do abandon their children for their affair, but many are drawn back to them. Many do feel torn and feel guilt because of the children. Do not discount this in your Plan A.

No update today really, my wife dropped off our daughter this morning but didn't engage with me at all, she couldn't even look at me. Guilt, I guess. She was here for less than 5 mins in total.
I had texted her last night inviting her along for the day today. Unsurprisingly, no reply. It's very hard to plan A when she won't speak or look at me, but will keep on being as nice as I can to her. Some of it has to sink in at some point.

2 good friends of hers who she has being avoiding since this began are planning to meet her this week to try to talk sense into her, they think her behaviour is ridiculous. I don't expect them to succeed, but it can't hurt for her to hear some rational views on it all. It's good to know that they support me too.

My wife doesn't see our daughter now until Tuesday evening, so it's a long spell for her & I know it kills her.

Try to invite her on outings, for example call and say "Hey we are going to the park and was wondering if you wanted to meet us there?"

I agree this is very good news. It inflicts damage on her fantasy to hear others.


Please tell me you are not allowing your wife to expose your daughter to her affair?? The OM is an unfit adult who should not be allowed access to your DD without a court order.

No, my daughter has not been exposed to the affair. I am certain of that. I don't want to divulge here how I know, but I do know for sure. That's not to say that my wife won't want her to meet him a few months down the line, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

I haven't told my daughter about the affair, I am hesitant to do so despite the advice on here that I should. I do agree that she needs to know what her mother is doing is wrong, so she can know the difference between right and wrong. It's a matter of timing I suppose, she is a perfect little girl & she doesn't deserve this any more than I do.

She's 4, right?
Another reason to tell her is that she's probably very confused, and may even be blaming herself for Mommy not being around anymore. No child needs to be carrying that burden.

I would keep it simple when you do talk to your child.
"Mommy and I are separated from each other because Mommy is dating another man. Married people should only date their husband or wife."

That is what I told my youngest. "Daddy is dating another woman. Married men should only date their wife."

Though my marriage didn't survive, all my children know what happened. They are not clueless about the destruction of their parents' marriage.

That is preferable to the alternative. A child not really knowing why the Earth switched axis and sent their family array.

"And it hurts Daddy a lot."

Read this
Exposing to Children

Thank you for the advice on telling my daughter. I am going to consider it carefully, this is the one thing that I am hesitant to do, it's not that I don't appreciate the advice, but I just want to think about it a bit more.

My wife went to see OM last night (Sunday)- he drops his kids back to his BW at 4 o'clock and I have our daughter, so they spend time together then. Not sure if she spent the night with him in an hotel or whatever, she may have went home to her parents house.
I texted her last night to tell her that there had been a bad accident (3 fatalities) on her road to work and that the road would be closed this morning for her commute, and told her to take care. She replied at 11.30 pm saying "Thanks Sarma"
Small things I suppose, but it's a start. It's hard to be nice when she is not, but I will persevere.

The OM has stopped paying his mortgage with his BW and is pushing her to sell the house and get somewhere smaller so he can get his share of the equity. She is not budging, and will legally be able to keep the kids in their home til they are 18.

Also, 4 letters arrived for my wife to our house, they were pension related, it looks like they are trying to get their finances in order to get somewhere to live.
My wife is no longer paying our mortgage either.

This evening my FIL is meeting BW's father. BW's father is bringing some pictures of his daughter (BW) and her children so he can see the family my wife has wrecked.

My FIL would be the biggest influence on my wife and is really hurt by what she is doing, but so far she won't listen to him at all. It can't hurt for him to see the destruction she is causing to another family as well as ours.

I am hoping that someone can get through to her, but not counting on it either. She is very stubborn and may very well have to live with this guy for a few months to see that the grass is not greener. Her friends are going to meet her this week too.

You are doing a great job and only need to keep doing what you are doing. Her affair will end when it becomes more painful to stay in it than it does to leave it. All of the pressure that is being applied brings conflict into the affair.

As far as telling your child, be assured it is the right thing to do. Children can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. Not telling her the truth behind your breakup teaches her that dishonesty is acceptable in certain situations. If you don't tell her the truth, I promise you that your wife will tell her lies that will only confuse her terribly. The breakup will be blamed on you and your wife will teach her that adultery is a lifestyle choice. Your wife is probably grooming the child now to accept a new daddy. If you say nothing, your child will assume you approve.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

here



here

here

Your wife is willing to throw away your child's family for a big, fat nothing. Your daughter has a right to know this. As a child, my serial cheater father introduced me to his OW at a hotel. This did not seem right to me but since my instincts about right and wrong were not validated, I learned not to trust my instincts and grew up very morally confused. My father was free to teach me that wrong was right and blame everything on my mother. I grew up hating my mother as a result.

If you don't teach her right from wrong, your wife will teach her that wrong is right. She needs the truth along with your moral guidance as protection. Without that, she is vulnerable to any lies your wife chooses to tell her.

Ok,

My FIL & OM'S BW's father met this evening. I was there also. It was definitely good for them to meet each other. One thing I have established without question is that they both want the same outcome as me, to see my marriage restored. This is very gracious of the BW's father, especially after what my wife has done to his daughter's family. He also brought along some photos of BW'S children and BW herself, which was good for my FIL to see.

My FIL has said that he will never support anyone else living in my home but me & my wife & that I became his son when I married his daughter. His sympathies are firmly with me.

OM'S BW is going legal on his a$$ and he won't be getting any equity from their home. I doubt he will get another mortgage as his name is still on that one, same with my wife. So they would have to rent somewhere.

My FIL is going to work on his wife, my MIL, who as I said has been supporting my wife since day one. He thinks she could be key. I wouldn't hold my breath on her coming round as she is a crazy b**ch.

My FIL has been brilliant all through this and is an absolute gent. While I understand he has a certain duty to stand by his daughter to an extent, he couldn't be better to me. He did urge me to get back to work tomorrow - I am self employed and haven't worked in 7 weeks. He said if I fold, everything folds around me. That would just let POSOM win.

I don't hold much hope of anyone changing my wifes mind at the minute, she is her own woman, but the more voices of reason she hears, the better & hopefully things won't be so easy for them both together.

I will see my wife tomorrow evening when she collects our daughter.

You absolutely need to work sir.
your fil is right

Is it completely normal for a WW to refuse to engage with BH? I am being as friendly, open and caring as possible without being a doormat. No LB's etc. Just text my wife to discuss a couple of things about our daughter, I was cordial & friendly but I just get 1 or 2 word replies.
When she picks up our daughter I fully expect the same, even avoiding eye contact probably. Without smothering I will try anyway, but she seems determined not to let her walls down, I'd say she has been schooled by OM. It's very hard to meet EN's when she won't let me in. Maybe my efforts aren't going unnoticed but she won't show it.
Keep plugging away and expect zero in return??

Thanks

Yes, you won't get anything in return until the affair ends. That's just the way it is.

Seeing as she won't engage with me or speak about our relationship, would there be any benefit in writing her a hand written letter, asking her to stop the affair so we can rebuild our marriage?

I'm guessing not, she already knows how I feel and that I am willing to make whatever changes necessary to build a better marriage... anything else now will look desperate and probably push her further away. I am probably just frustrated, when what I need to be is patient.

It is technically very Plan A to ask her to end the affair and explain that the affair is very hurtful to you emotionally, probably the worst thing you've ever experienced. Nothing is wrong with that at all.

I would just not let that be the only thing you say to her. You need to be also trying to meet her needs and make lovebank deposits in whatever reasonable avenues you can. Don't be annoying or desperate, but do the things you can that you know she appreciates. It's tough to do when the WS is away from you and very withdrawn, but it has been done before here and many men in your position have recovered their marriages over time.

Don't expect reciprocation or try think too much about what your wife does or doesn't know/realize. She's temporarily insane and you have to keep plugging away until her affair dies and she regains her sanity.

It is great news that your FIL is a man of integrity and taking a stand for the right here. You seem to have done a very strong exposure and the people around both your wife and her AP are also people of integrity and are holding them accountable. That is very crucial and many betrayed spouses do not get that kind of tactical affair-killing support from their extended family.

I know it's a tough spot right now but you have much to be optimistic about. Keep your chin up and do whatever is required to stay upbeat and effective in executing your plan. Exercise, antidepressants and conferring/venting a bit with supportive friends and family can help a lot there.

Also reading materials here and listening to the radio show can be a great motivator. Part of Plan A (especially for men) is an opportunity for the BS to size up their lovebusting behaviors and begin to make positive changes. Coupling that with a good workout routine can reinforce a theme of growth and positive change in your mind. It will make you feel better and it will make you much more attractive to your wife.

Also I agree with the others that you need to expose to your kids ASAP. They need to be armed with the truth about what is happening.

Thank you for your advice axslinger. My wife just left. She came in and sat down while our daughter finished her dinner and didn't seem in such a rush as previous visits. I had the fire lit ( it's raining & miserable weather here this evening), and our home spotless and very homely. Our Golden retriever was lying at the fire too, really the only thing missing to make it perfect all the time is my wife

I think she noticed how homely it all is but didn't comment. Part of her has to be longing to be here- we built this home together, and everything in it we chose together.

Our conversation was fine if only about practical things. She is being very careful not to give me hope, but seemed a bit more open this evening. We are going to talk on Thursday evening about our daughter & sharing arrangements on Thursday as she starts school for real next week.

I was relaxed & well groomed when she was here, I didn't mention anything relationship related as our daughter was in our presence the whole time. It didn't feel right to anyway.

Any you shouldn't be the one to bring up Anything relationship related.

Let your Plan A opportunities do your speaking for you.

If SHE brings up relationship matters, you just listen intently and hear her out. Listen carefully too. She once in a while will reveal some key information instead of affair fog babble.

Those isolated prompts are a gifted road map to you. Use them.

If she wants to discuss divorce, tell her you will not be dealing with that, but rather will continue to improve your marriage for both of you.

LTL

You may try flirting with her, inside jokes or bringing up happy memories of time you and your wife spent with the daughter, trying to keep it light.

She will already be missing her old life here and there, even if she does not tell you and even if she is in the fog.

Well, it seems like my wife is fully entrenched in this affair and I will have to keep plan A'ing. Seems they spent the night together last night and are planning Sunday night together too. Living at home with her parents and having these flings in hotel rooms can only be appealing for so long, compared to our family life in our beautiful home.
They both have ditched all their family & financial responsibilities and are living the life of teenagers.

What I am worried about is people slowly coming round to her way of thinking, and I suppose it's inevitable that some people will do that, but surely even in this day and age, people have morals and ethics....what is wrong with the world that this is considered acceptable?

I know I can't 2nd guess what is going on in their meetings, maybe there is tension or argueing, who knows? I know there are a lot of people in both their families who are pressurising them- they have nowhere to live and are unlikely to get a mortgage.

My wife is coming over this evening to discuss our sharing arrangment with our child, we will see how that goes....any new advice welcome.

Thank you all..

Waiting for the A to die a natural death is a very painful process. You are doing all the right things within your control. You cannot force her to stop what she is doing.

You are doing great. You really are. Exposure and the steps you have taken should speed up the death of this A but there is no way to predict how this is going to go.

Keeping up the stellar Plan A and focusing on yourself is really all you can do at this point. Remember to avoid all LB's and try to make small LB deposits when you can.

I know how hard this is for you. Been there. Riding this out is extremely painful and taxing...The A has to die a natural death before there is any hope of R.

I tried to stay as busy as humanly possible and used mental distraction techniques to keep my mind off of things. It was a very difficult time for me.

Hotels are expensive and this can not last.
On the other hand, the fantasy lasts a bit longer as long as they are not bothered by everyday things as kids and dirty socks and the like.

You are on the inside track. This affair is extremely illogical and you will prevail and be the knight in shining armour that saves the princess from the ugly dragon POSOM.
She will be gratefull in the future, that you fought for your family.

Thank you 20 year. My wife is upstairs putting our daughter to bed at the minute. It's been very stressful. She went to leave and our daughter was crying, didn't want her to go etc. Horrible.
It's only because our daughter is tired and loves us both, my wife is going to use this as an excuse as to why she can't visit our home & that she needs more time with our daughter - she is really pushing to take her out of our home for an extra night at the minute.

We talked a lot, but she told me I need to understand that it's over, said she has never been happy in our 15 years and is happier now than she has ever been in her whole life.
I asked her about all the people who have been hurt by this, not least the children, but the extended families too, she said she has done nothing wrong and doesn't care what anyone thinks, for the first time in her life she is putting herself first.

I am heartbroken. She doesn't care. She can't see what she has done. Has no clue where she will live long term, no clue how it will work with our daughter when she moves, no answers for anything, only love for OM.

I heard through a source that there were women in her workplace crying reading my exposure letters, and that most people in the office are totally against them and what they are doing. OM put something up on Facebook & was called before CEO and told to take it down or he would be fired. HR depth told everyone in the building they couldn't reply from their work emails, only on their own time.

From the sounds of it, they are under pressure at work but they don't care.
I probaby broke a few rules this evening re LB'S etc, but it was emotional. My wife said she could see positive changes, but it's a pity it took this to make them, that it was too little, too late.

I have to get back to her about the extra night she wants our daughter to stay with her, she tried to bully me into an answer but I said I would think about it.

Any thoughts? She doesn't see this as an affair, it's a new chapter in her eyes. He is like some sort of saviour to her.

I spoke to 2 close friends who are going to meet her, they can't believe what she is doing and insist they won't be 'talked round'.
They are really going to tell her what they think of her actions. They described this as a house of cards relationship & they are convinced she will regret it- their only fear is that it will be too late as far as I am concerned.

My wife and I were talking about the past and she spoke about every little thing I had done wrong....I told her of little things she said over the past while that destroyed & demeaned me, but that I had held my hurt inside and not shown it. She seemed quiet & accepted what she had done & asked why I still wanted her, I said because I love you and always have.


They really seem to see themselves as a Bonny & Clyde scenario, us against the world, to hell with anyone who gets I our way . It is horrible.

Dont talk about the past.
Just tell her you are sorry for the mistakes you made in the past and you are willing to work with her to build a loving romantic marriage but she must first end her affair.

Stop listening to what your wife says.

I am so sorry for the pain you're going through. I just wanted to mention that those EXACT words were said to me by my WW. I'm not exaggerating. It wasn't similar, it was exactly that. They have a script that's downloaded into their brains. Male/female, Christian/Buddhist, American/Irish. Doesn't matter. They all say the same things.

It is not just horrible; it is also totally unsustainable. Time is on your side.

This.

She is only trying to paint you in a bad light to justify her affair. Every time she gets a nasty response from you she feels better about not being with you. (See, he'll never change)

But your plan A has the best chance to win her over.
Every time OM slips up, and he will, she will automatically in her mind compare him to you.
Every time is short with her, every time he is late, every time he forgets the groceries, every time he starts complaining about the cost of the hotel, every time he is in a bad mood, every time life is not all flowers, she will think about what she had to give up.

That's why you have to look good in comparison. Every time he combs his balding head and she thinks of your good hair and every time she tries to ignore his potbelly, etc.

Just stay cool and radiate self esteem and zest for life. Do not let yourself be drawn into discussions. Just happen to find an old photograph and tell her "look how cute you smile in this picture, do you remember how the dolphin almost bit your toe?" You get it. She is on the sinking ship and you are the rock/life boat.

As long as the affair is ongoing, this person isnt your wife, but an alien has taken over her body. Talking sensible is not an option.

There are several threads describing "fog babble" or "crazy things waywards say". Reasoning with your wife at this point is like reasoning with a dronk, a complete waste of time.

My thoughts are YIPPEE!! This is going fabulously well!! You have managed to cause enormous conflict in the affair and as time wears on and reality intrudes, things will get worse and worse in affair land.

Would your FIL agree to stop facilitating her affair from his house? Does he know she is using his house to behave like an unpaid wh*re? If this were my daughter, she would out immediately. Does he support his DD conducting her affair from his home?

But you need to STOP LOVEBUSTING!!!

Thanks Melody,

Thought you would appreciate the impact of the exposure letters at work! It was the best bit of news all evening, my wife had, in her rage about the letters, told me that everyone thought I was pathetic. Obviously not. The OM being called in about his Facebook antics was a bonus.

No, my FIL would not kick her out. He has been brilliant to me & helped me in every way possible but he wouldn't do that. He disapproves completely with her actions & wants us to reunite, but that would be too much for him.
She doesn't take OM to their house, she goes to meet him in hotels etc.

Thank you all for your replies BTW. Each and every one is a great source of inspiration & I appreciate you all taking the time to reply.
I have mostly been textbook in following the guidelines, hopefully it pays off eventually. I was very despondent when my wife left this evening, but the fact we were so emotional about it shows we both care. Her behaviour does seem to fit the bill so far.

Happyheart, you are right BTW, the OM is bald & has a pot belly, I have a full head of hair & no belly! Also been told he looks 10 years older than he is!

Does your FIL know she is wh*ring it up in hotels with the OM?

Every time you lovebust her, you trash any progress you have made in her lovebank.

One slip is like setting off a nuclear bomb.

Are you on antidepressants?

What some encouraging thoughts??

MANY of us here with R M's heard the EXACT SAME THING during the active A. You are seeing that having these types of conversations with your W get you nowhere and is horrible to hear.

It is easy to understand why you are so down right now. Talks like these only reinforce your current situation and will bring you down further.

Hang in there. This A has a very low % chance of working. You have to trust that there is much conflict in the A at this point. A's are one of the most selfish acts a person can do. You can see her perspective of 'putting herself first' and what this is doing to her (and many others around her).

I predict that within the next few weeks to couple of months this is going to crumble.

Hang in there friend. I heard many of the exact same things as you did and my M is Recovered now! My FWW sees things in a completely different light now that this experience is behind us.

Her love for him is going to have to die before she will see any hope in your M. Actually, I see what she told you as standard language we have seen here hundreds of time from waywards.

When this A dies, she will remember how great you were to her. Keep those internal changes growing in yourself. Regardless how this comes out, you will be a better person.

Sarma, just know that the stage is set for you to save your marriage. You have done everything to kill the affair and it is crumbling as we speak. As it crumbles, she will reach out to you more and more so it is critically important that you present yourself as an attractive option. See, the OM does not have the benefit of this program and doesn't know to avoid love busters. You do!! So you have to avoid love busters at all cost.

Every time you love bust her, you make the OM look good. I don't think you want to do that, do you??

Thank you for the words of encouragement, yes it is hard to see there is hope when you hear such cruel words coming from the person you love, but it is reassuring to hear that it has all been heard before. I do still have great hope for our marriage despite what she has said.
I texted her last night and apologised for the way our discussion went the other night and told her that we both got too emotional, and that we will sit down and compromise. I don't know the answer- I want our daughter in our home 4 nights a week -it is her home after all, but my wife is insisting on 50/50; ie 4 nights with her in her parents house every fortnight.
I don't want our daughter here for selfish reasons, it's purely for her protection and stability, she loves her own wee bed & our home too.

I am going to avoid relationship talk as it just causes conflict & LB'S and we just keep going round in circles. As someone said in a previous reply, I will just have to be the best that I can be and let my plan A do the talking. My wife knows how I feel and what I want for us in the future, but I am thinking of writing a letter so she can take it away & read it without us getting into a row or heated discussion.

My wife has my daughter today & they have both gone off to spend the day together, just the 2 of them, which is great. She rarely did that, she always had to have her mother or another kid with her for company. I told her to enjoy it.

As far as her relationship /affair with OM, I am not so sure it is crumbling, but it certainly isn't in the honeymoon period anymore. I think I will have to wait a long time for it to end, but we will see. The fact it isn't the bed of roses at work that she told me it was is great. Despite the 'us against the world ' attitude of them both, there has to be some kind of guilt/shame there. Apparently most of the workplace (around 34 people) are disgusted with what they both have done.
Some of her closest friends are so angry with her too & have called her actions delusional and selfish. She needs to hear that.

I feel like I should be doing more to drive conflict into this affair, but not sure what I can do that I haven't already done. Any further actions may drive them closer together.
The OM is such a coward that I would love to confront him again, he feels that he is untouchable. Not sure that is wise though.

I am aware that my wifes actions are beyond my control & I should control what I can, ie:me.
Sorry, I have been waffling- hope it makes sense.

This forum has been a godsend and the words of encouragement & vast experience of seeing this all before give me great hope & direction. Thank you all.

When your daughter comes home, ask her if she met anyone new while she was with her Mom....also tell her she needs to tell you even if Mommy told her not to because those kinds of secrets are "bad" secrets.

They were at the cinema, just the 2 of them. I spoke to my daughter on the phone and also verified it independently.

I have told my wife that our daughter is not to be anywhere near OM. She agrees, but that may change down the line, who knows? - I will take legal advice on that.

This is why it is so critical that your daughter be told all about the affair. She is a sitting duck for the waywards if she is ignorant about what has disrupt4ed her life in such a way. If you don't tell her the truth, your wife is free to tell her lies. And believe me, you will be painted as the DEMON by her. How will she know that the OM is the enemy of her family if you don't warn her?

Don't leave her vulnerable to the affairees. Tell her the full truth and give her moral guidance.

I will Melody. Its the hardest thing I will ever have done, but I know why it has to be done. God love her. No 4 year old should ever have to hear this.

I say what I say as the daughter of serial cheater who was introduced to my fathers OW at age 4. This was profoundly confusing to me. What seemed wrong to me obviously was not wrong to the adults in my life, so I learned to doubt my instincts about right and wrong. This truly affected me well into my 20's because my wayward father was FREE to teach me that wrong was right. It was so confusing.

My mother sat silently because she was enamored with being "non-judgmental." Her silence just led me to believe that she endorsed my fathers corruption. It was their job to give me moral guidance and I only received immoral guidance frm my father.

It is hard to tell a child, but it is harder not to tell them.

By the way, my corrupt father blamed the breakup of their marriage on my mother. Since she was silent I never knew any better until I grew up.

Its dreadfully difficult to do, but the alternative is worse.

I have done it and I know how tough it is to do.

Please do tell your daughter, i was dumbfounded whem my WW said she would lie to your kids and i should too becasuse thy dont need to know whats going on in our lives.
I am thinking to myself this is what you want to teach are kids lieing is ok. Then she wounders why our kids dont listen to her the way she would like and lie back.
Its just setting a bad precedence for them.

Sorry for lack of updates, nothing really to report.

OM is getting his own place somewhere today I've heard, it can't be up to much as he doesn't have much money. Not heard if my wife is moving in with him, I would guess not as she is pretty comfortable living in her parents house and is close to our daughter here. It will probably be their 'love nest' so they don't have to be in hotels all the time.

I was at my nephews birthday party on Sunday (my wifes sisters son, also my wifes godson)- my sister in law invited me and my daughter up, I went as I've no reason to be ashamed. It was nice of them to ask me. My wifes extended family and friends were all there. I could tell they were sorry for me and are for the most part absolutely disgusted with my wifes behaviour, not that that helps me.
Got a few nice messages that night, saying it was great to see me and my daughter there.

It was the sort of occasion that my wife loves, beautiful day, all her family gathered, bouncy castle for the kids etc.....but she was off with OM spending her day. She doesn't care what anyone thinks of her at the minute.

I booked the Disney trip for myself & my daughter in Janurary last night. We are going with my brother, his wife & family. My daughter will love it. It would be lovely to have my wife along too, but she didn't acknowledge my invite, so i will leave it at that.

It would actually be a pain to have your wife on the trip.
She would be on the phone and texting OM the whole time.
A trip without her will be nice.
I remember when i was in Plan A my wife was texting OM when we went on a small vacation non stop! Its not enjoyable and outright annoying and insulting.

So plan on enjoying the trip without her.

Ok,

My wife is coming over to our home this evening to discuss our daughter's rota. It was this time last week when we tried to do this last and that didn't go so well & was very traumatic for us all. I am going to avoid all relationship talk as much as it is killing me that my WW continues her affair. I will try to remain calm and pragmatic.

My WW is still insisting on a straight 50/50 arrangement, with our daughter staying 4 nights alternate weeks with me and her (WW is still living at her parents house 500 yards away).
I am insisting, purely for my daughters stability and to protect her, that she continues to stay 4 nights in her home with me, it is her home after all, and purely from a practical viewpoint, I am there for the child in the mornings, wheras my wife wouldn't be and it would be my MIL getting our daughter ready for school. I will be sticking to my guns on that point which could be problematic. I have offered the compromise that my wife could feel free to come over anytime and see our daughter at home, or put her to bed at home on one of the nights where she doesn't have her.

Last night, when my WW tried to drop my daughter off outside, my daughter pulled her inside the house and coaxed her into sitting on the sofa to watch a little part of a movie with her. My WW sat one side of our daughter, holding her hand, I sat the other side, holding her other hand. Do you know what our daughter tried to do (she's 4!!)- she tried to bring my wife and I's hands together and make us hold hands! It would melt your heart. We connected a little bit and my wife stayed for 10 more minutes until my daughter was settled, then left.
Honestly, you would have thought I had schooled my daughter to do it!

My wife has her defenses/walls up- I feel that if she lets them down, she will crumble. Her sister has told me that she confided in her that she still loves me as well as OM- she certainly isn't showing it at the minute, but I am certain that there are conflicting emotions in there. There has to be.
She has to keep up the facade of being 'so happy', and 'certain of her decision', but she is not nearly as enthusiastic as she was in the early days.

Tips for tonight welcome, thank you.

It is challenging to maintain plan a during custody disputes, if not impossible.
You cause love bank withdrawals by arguing over the custody.

The compromise you offered is probably viewed by her as being controlling.

It is challenging, but not impossible.
You are doing a GREAT job of Plan A, sarma. Don't get discouraged over this. You can state what you're willing to do without arguing with her.

I have not witnessed that at all. Actually it is pretty easy if the BS just sends over a calendar and works it out. Usually the WS is so checked out with the affair that they easily agree to most offers.

This hits the nail on the headn

Pay attention. She currently wants her affair more than her Motherly duties.

LTL

Thank you all for the words of advice. Well, it went well, my wife stayed for 45 mins or so, we sat beside each other on the sofa, our daughter was in bed. Talked about the rota, we both compromised a little, end result is my daughter is staying at home with me 4 nights a week, my wife reluctantly agreed it was best.
We talked calmly & respectfully to each other and recognised that this is not perfect for either of us, neither of us would be 100% happy with it, but we both had to make the best of it.

My wife seemed tired and drawn & said it was a pity it had taken this for me to make changes in my life, to spend more time with my family, she was genuinely upset. We spoke for another while about our daughters school etc, when she left she said night night & was generally a lot more open & receptive tonight.

Positive night all round. I know there is doubt in my wifes mind about all of this.

You did great!!!

Nothing really to update, my wifes affair is still ongoing. She is refusing to see her friends who want to meet her to talk & has made her excuses that she wouldnt be able to see them for a while. She doesnt want to interact with anyone who doesn't agree with her chosen path. A mutual friend of ours who happens to be a psychologist and cbt specialist met with her on Saturday, he basically doorstepped her and gave her a hug and just listened to her.
She admitted that she is stubborn to the point she will keep doing something even if she knows its wrong. I knew that. He was really making headway with her but was interrupted when our daughter came down from bed. He had spoke to her for 2 hours, and she was opening up to him.
OM has somewhere to live now & I guess on the nights she is not in her parents with our daughter, she will probably stay with him. Its tough. Our daughter wont be with her in his company or house.

My wife is oblivious to the pain she has caused to so many people including her own family, she just doesn't care, said she is a good person & God wants her to be happy. She was here this evening & while I avoided LBs, I didnt have the energy to be nice to her. It was our daughter's first day at pre school today & most parents were there except my wife. I was alone.
I was angry with my wife for that, though i didnt show it. She paints herself as some sort of role mother but really doesn't put our daughter first.

I was thinking of ways to plan A, would a bouquet of flowers to her workplace be too strong? OM would be livid as he works with her & it would be embarrassing for both of them as most of the workplace are against them & their actions.
I will pick up the plan A by actions, not words.

On a positive note, my MIL came to see me last night. She has done a 180 after being convinced by my FIL that this guy is no good and bad news for their daughter. I am wary of her & dont fully trust her after some of the things she has said about me, but I do appreciate the gesture. She could yet be an unlikely ally & said she is gonna try to talk to my wife.

I am going to keep praying & speak to a priest tomorrow.

The logistics and everything else of this affair make zero sense. My wife will have to live with her parents for the next 7 years to maintain the time she has with our daughter as we have decided she will be going to our local primary school.

I wish I could do more to bust this affair up, feel helpless.

Does she like flowers? If yes, then sending her flowers at work is a great addition to Plan A.

Do the things you know she'll like (or that she used to like). She may respond in annoyance and anger right now, but that's normal and just the fog. The point is that you've made a lovebank deposit (even if it doesn't show yet). Don't focus on her reaction.

Another positive is that my wifes ENTIRE family are behind me and disagree with what she is doing. Her father has told me that OM will never be welcome & told me to not leave our family home.
I know that this sounds like a small thing, but my wife has a real emotional attachment to our home and where it is- on her family farm where she grew up. She loves everything about the area and it will kill her to cast it aside.

If I had left our home as she tried to get me to do when I was at my lowest ebb, it would be game over. POSOM would have walked in & taken my life, all so easily. If nobody takes anything else from this thread, please, BH's, do not leave your home- you have done nothing wrong. I can understand why some BH's do step aside because of their emotional state, but its madness to do so.

If things dont work out for my wife & I (I still think they will though), I will bring up my daughter here to the best of my ability with the support of my in laws.

All you need to do is sit back and wait while the affair crumbles. The longer this goes on, the more the fantasy will crumble. The ONLY thing propping up this affair is fantasy. Fantasies never last. Just be sure that you always look more attractive than the OM. He doesn't have the benefit of this program and is a selfish piece of crap. That will come out soon enough. Just be patient.

Sarma,
Affair fantasies are powerful and it can take some time for the fantasy to weaken, but rest assured you are taking the right steps, even if it taking an emotional toll on you.

Stay the course with Plan A. Flowers are not a bad idea. When I was in Plan A I drafted occasional letters and made small gestures when the opportunities arose. One time, I texted her a link to the song "I won't give up on us" by Jason Mraz when it came out. I remember buying her soup and dropping it off at her house when she was sick. I never got a reply for any of this, so I wasn't sure if they made any impact at the time. But after the fog lifted I learned that they did.

If you keep showing her affection (without smothering her or talking relationship) when her affair hits the skids she may start to miss the things she loved about her life with you. But it's a process and it takes time.

There are no guarantees, but by fighting the fight, standing up for your marriage, and learning to be a better husband, you win no matter what.

I think sending her flowers to her folks house where she is often staying is even better.
She will get them and have pause to think without feeling that you are working the cowork angle.

I think this is true Plan A.

OM won't know you sent them which is actually more intimate........lol

Thank you Prisca, Melody, JT3OU, and Reading, some great advice there. I will take it all on board. Just spoke to one of my in laws for some insight. The bad feeling towards my wife from her family is growing- they are frustrated and impatient with her selfishness. She seems content to live up in their house freeloading while she spends time with our daughter, then spend the rest of her time with POSOM.
While she lives at home, she is having her washing etc done by her father, who commented the other day that I 'may have had a lucky escape'.

If she is to maintain the same level of contact with our daughter (who she does love), she will have to keep this bullsh1t lifestyle up for the next 7 or 8 years while our daughter goes to primary school. This would mean she would still be living at home with her parents when she is 40!!
It is all crazy beyond words and the most selfish stupid act ever.

Well its unfortunate her parents encourage and support her behavior and then bad mouth her when she isn't around.

How are things going, Sarma? Any changes?

Hi Didntquit,

Unfortunately no changes to report. I am still trying to plan A as best I can and keep positive as much as I can. It's tough some days. My wife is still staying at her parents house (very close to our home) on the nights where she has our daughter, but is staying with OM 3 nights a week in a house he has rented. The house is a sh1thole compared to the homes both of them were accustomed to. It is also in a large town which would not suit my wife, she always was a country girl & loved our home, the fresh air and where it is.

Thankfully, I still have the full support of her family- her sisters are pretty p1ssed at her freeloading at home and her continuing selfish actions. She is shunning all family occasions- birthdays, masses etc, she can't stand to face people from her own family or locality. The 'us against the world' mentality seems to be going strong. OM only sees his children 6 nights a month.

I don't know what else to do, she is truely like a different person at the minute, my grandmother died last weekend and I asked my wife to look after our daughter in our home for one night so that I could sit up at the wake the night before the funeral- she refused, saying that it would upset our daughters routine. Instead, she went to stay with OM. That was cold and hurt me a lot.

As I said earlier in this thread, she doesn't see this as an affair, she sees it as a 'new relationship', and doesn't see herself as having done anything wrong because she 'broke up' with me before they did anything physical.

None of it is logical and makes no sense- this guy is a creep who preyed on her when she was vulnerable coming off the anti depressants in February and slowly built up trust with her until he finally wore her down. I am not in any way absolving her of blame, but that is the way it happened. Everyone can see that but her, she won't listen to ANYONE, close friends and family have all tried in vain. It's her mistake to make, so I suppose she will have to see that for herself.

I do know all is not as rosey as it once was, I have heard that my wife has a lot of 'low' moments & I walked in on her crying at the kitchen table last week. She misses our daughter terribly, but sadly that is one of the consequences of her decision- she is giving up so much of our beautiful daughters life for this POSOM. I miss our daughter so much when she is away from our home too, but it's not because of any decision I have made- I feel like I am being punished for my wife's life choice.

I really wish she would come home so we could rebuild our family- I love her so much and we honestly were happy until this POSOM came along, she can't see that now though. We both can spend all the time we want with our daughter at home and build many more happy memories together.

In the meantime, I am getting on with my life as best i can and working on keeping some form of stability in our daughters life. I will keep plan A'ing where possible, but I am avoiding all relationship talk. She knows where I stand on that anyway.

Please God, she will see the error of her ways at some point- I will keep praying that she will.

For some of you who have recovered marriages, how long was your fight? It's been 3 months now for me, but seems much longer. I do realise that this A is pretty entrenched, but I have a feeling in my gut that there is a lot of hope. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

On another note, somebody said to me earlier in this thread that my wifes feelings and determination will change from day to day.(Think it was Melodylane who said that?)

I have very much found this to be the case- some days she seems alright, but there are a lot of times where she seems sad and down, some days she ignores me, other days she is cordial and pleasant. It's like she is emotionally all over the place.

Dr H says that most affairs end after 2 years. That men should to plan A for 6 months. And if able to man up they should plan A for the 2 years.

You are not fighting a battle you are fighting a war. A series of time consuming battles.

Her affair is not built to last. So if you continue in Plan A, you will be a safe landing for her. Be strong, be resolute, and do things to keep your sanity such as exercise and quality time with our children, family, and friends.

Sarma, check out Billman's thread for how this is likely to play out:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2827430#Post2827430

Check out Justthe3ofus' thread, too.

Thank you all for your replies. Could you point me in the direction of Justthe3ofus's thread please? Thank you.
It's good to read others have went through similar and have got or are getting posotive outcomes.

Here's Justthe3ofus' thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=165580&Number=2585737#Post2585737

You can find people's posts by clicking on their username and then selecting "View Posts." Prepare a tissue for when you get to page 10.

Hi,

Just thought I would check in. Things pretty much as they were, my wife is continuing her affair with OM & they still work together. I am looking after our daughter most of the time & doing all the mundane stuff while my wife enjoys meals out etc with OM.
I am plan A'ing where I can, avoiding LB's, & making L bank deposits where possible. My wife had an important exam this morning & my daughter & I made her a good luck card on Monday- I also sent her a good luck text this morning & said a prayer for her. Those are just small examples of the kinda gestures I have been making - not smothering or too full on.

Relations with my wife have generally been better- no arguments etc, she only comes into our home to pick up or drop off our daughter. The one argument we did have was last week when she was angry at me for telling our daughter the truth about why mammy wasnt at home anymore, she told me I was confusing the child and scaring her- our daughter is 4 & when I told her that her mother was kissing another man who she shouldn't be, she came to the conclusion that he is a 'bad, evil man'. She came up with that herself & I didn't correct her as I feel she is 100% right.

Anyway, I told my wife that our daughter was to be nowhere near OM or there would be consequences for him. She didnt take that well but it hasn't been mentioned since.

I feel I am doing a great plan A otherwise, but sometimes I feel like a doormat or an enabler. At what point is that line crossed? I am being kind to her & giving her no reason to hate me or justify her actions, but it sometimes feels like I am too soft.
I realise an excellent plan A is vital, but do I need to have boundaries? I've told her I wont stand for our daughter being exposed to this 'relationship ' & I mean that.

Suggestions welcome, I know its a slow process & I need to be patient. There are doubts in my wifes mind, Im sure of it, but she won't show them obviously.
On a superficial level she is probably happy at the minute, but long term will that outweigh what she has given up- her home, her family, 1/2 of her time with her daughter? I don't think it will.
It's so unrealistic & a complete fantasy- they have both shunned all of their responsibilities in life.

Am I doing the right things? I'm aware that my wife will see no hope while the affair is ongoing, but just wanted to check on boundaries I should set while plan A'ing, also that I am not being a doormat or enabler. Is it a case of being as calm & nice as possible, while improving myself? I have read up on plan A, I just want reassurance I suppose- it's a lonely road.

Also, anyone know if I can legally keep our daughter away from POSOM? It would be UK law, so probably different from the US. Our daughter is 4 years old.

FYI - my wifes EA has been going on for probably 8 months, D day, separation & PA has been ongoing 4 months.

Thank you.

How is your health holding out?

Ach it's fine. I'm ok physically, just heartbroken. Our daughter is so much happier at home with me in our house, she loves it.
I have to stay strong for her. I am prepared for the long haul, I have patience, just wanted to see if I was doing it right.

Do you have a lawyer? Can you ask your lawyer about keeping your DD4 away from OM?

And you do understand that Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life, right? At some point you will wnat to consider going into Plan B if she won't end her affair.

REfresh my memory, did oyu expose at the workplace and to the OM's family?

Yep, did all the exposures to the book- caused a lot of upset and a dose of reality, but the affair is ongoing. It is by no means to my wifes plans, she expected me to move out and OM to move in in my place, but I have stayed in our home with our DD4 with the full support of her family.
There are a lot of signs of frustration from my wife that I have stood my ground and she hasn't got her way.
I haven't given her any reason to blame me or point the finger at me in any way.

Plan A can last up to 2 years, yes?

ok, thanks! Now I remember your story. Plan A is supposed to last around 6 months, or until you start suffering mental or physical damage. If the affair has not ended in 2 years, you should give up and move on.

Sarma,

Plan A does not mean enabling. You can show you care without pretending like she's not having an affair. Can you be more specific and share what you have done that might be considered "enabling?"

I'm not sure about enabling, but it is hard to be pleasant while she is doing what she is doing. She is remorseless & cold at the minute, truely like the alien I have seen described.
Everyone can see how she has been 'played' by this POSOM but her- its crazy- she is normally an intelligent lady.
I look after our DD all week, doing the normal everyday things, she takes her on a Friday & Saturday night & spoils her by buying toys etc, I suppose it's guilt or over compensating.

At the minute she is dangerous also. The POSOM is spinning that he was emotionally abused in his marriage & is so relieved to be free from it. Bullsh1t, but she has bought it & is trying to project that as an excuse for her too- she is trying to portray me as this 'angry unreasonable man' who was impossible to live with. I promise it couldn't be further from the truth & anyone who knows us knows it is just another justification for her behaviour.

I have never raised my voice or said one angry thing to her since she broke all this to me in July, however I sent her an angry text last week in frustration after she goaded me about introducing our DD4 to OM. Now she is showing that one message to people citing it as typical behaviour from me, ignoring the hundreds of supportive messages I have sent her & how understanding I have been with her.
She is looking for any excuse to hold me up as a bad person & apart from one text I have never slipped up or got drawn down to her level. That's why she is dangerous & I think I may start to record our conversations.

She is convinced she didn't or isn't having an affair, that this is a new relationship & is forever. She doesn't know so much about OM, he is a deceitful lying POS, hopefully that will come out sooner rather than later.
A lot of her anger is from guilt & frustration that this all hasn't panned out as they had planned- I am still living at home with our daughter, whereas I was supposed to have stepped aside for OM. She is living at her parents 3 nights a week & 4 nights with him.

I have done a really good plan A I think, taking any opportunity to do small acts of kindness, avoiding LB'S, whilst avoiding relationship talk- it just leads to.conflict. I have put my feelings down on paper a few times so she knows what I want; ie to recover & rebuild our family & marriage.
I just pray that at some point she will come out of this selfish act she is doing- I see glimpses of the girl I knew in there occasionally so she hasn't gone completely.

As it is,when WW collects our daughter, she comes to our home & whilst she doesn't usually hang around, she comes in & sits on the sofa etc. Our poor daughter is always trying to get her to stay a little longer. However, sometimes DD4 doesn't want to leave the home to go with her & it is very traumatic for her.
It has to hurt my wife when DD won't acknowledge her or doesn't want to be with her. Obviously I don't try to influence the child in any way, but I have told her why mammy is not at home any more.


I know this can't go on indefinitely & at some point I will be cutting all contact with WW. My only fear then is that I won't have any influence over DD4 being exposed to POSOM and his children. I have been told if I have genuine fears that it is detrimental to DDs welfare I can apply to court for an injunction.

Any thoughts on any of this & is recovery even possible?

sarma, I think you have a good chance at saving your marriage. No guarantees but there is hope. You should plan on cutting her off if you start getting sick, or start losing weight because this can ruin your health. So just be careful.

I would try to get an injunction against the OM right now if you can. Can you?

Ok, Understood. Thank you for your reply Melody. I still believe I can save this marriage too, just wanted to hear some of your opinions for reassurance I suppose.
I will see what I can do on the injunction.

I'm joining the fight with you Sarma. You can do this

Thank you FL, I sincerely hope so. Doing everything in my power.

What are you doing for yourself to stay busy and have other positives in your life? You know, going out for Salsa lessons, learning how to play the guitar, joining a gym... Journaling helps me and being here is part of that. Having such a support network or all these people supporting you without being "you are all right and she is all wrong" is very helpful.

Yes it is good to journal, I have been doing that, though have missed out on some. As regards keeping busy, I am self employed and run a small business- I also look after our daughter (4) most of the week, getting her ready for school, picking her up, making her meals, getting her to bed etc.
By the time she gets to sleep, it can be 9pm or so sometimes & then there's the upkeep of our home, inside & out! My wife used to take the chores inside the house, while I did outside, so now its a lot of extra work, so I dont get much time for gym etc. I have been doing a lot of walking to try to get out & clear my head. It helps a lot.

To be honest, there are a lot of very low moments but I am determined to be strong & not slip into a depression, both for my sake & my daughters sake too. My wife was just coming out of almost 4 years of clinical depression when OM began hitting on her so I know how horrible an illness it is. It also makes it very hard to take that, after it finally looked like our lives were looking up & after sticking by my wife through all that, to have the rug pulled from beneath you is the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with.

However, I was 'her rock' (her words) through all that time & I still intend to be. I love her.

Thank God for my D! That and all my support network. I am still trying to figure out how to end the pain. Perhaps pulling the plug and getting my W out of my life is that answer. I don't know.

Hello all,

Just said I'd check in. Things still pretty much as they were here. WW is still splitting her time between her parents house (100 yards from our home & where she spends the 3 nights a week she has with our DD4) and the other 4 nights she spends with the POSOM in a rented house 20 miles from here.
I am so glad I never left our home- I was so close to in the days that followed D day, but I dread to think of the life I'd have now if i had. OM would be living in my home wth my family right now. As bad as things are, at least I have our beautiful daughter with me in our home most of the time- she very much knows and recognises it as her home, despite my WW trying to convince her that she 'has two homes now'.
I need to keep that stability for her, I am pretty much her only constant right now & will continue to do what's best for her.

My WW continues to see this adultrous affair as a 'new relationship', and not the typical sordid affair that it is.
It doesn't seem to matter to her at all that she is responsible for breaking up 2 families. The pack of lies that she has been fed by OM about the 'abusive marriage' he was escaping seems to have been fully bought by her. Indeed, she went on her own offensive over Christmas, sending Facebook messages to her immediate family describing the hell that I had put her through and how she was so relieved to escape the emotional abuse she had been suffering. Thankfully, none of her family bought it and described it as a 'pile of sh1t'. People who know me know that it is crap and is only justification for what she is doing.
I know a lot of her friends will have been fed this crap too and some will believe it, but I can't let that get me down. I know the truth and can hold my head high.


I have the full support of her immediate and extended family- members of her extended family have been coming to me and saying how disgusted they are with her behaviour.
I think this is a great source of frustration for her- she said to me 'We are separated, the families should separate too- they are not your family'
I also know that she is extremely frustrated that i am still living in our family home (which we built together on her family farm). Her father has told her that POSOM will never be coming over the lane. He also told me to make myself comfortable and look after our daughter there.
POSOM has largely succeeded in alieniating his wife from his family, citing that she was 'emotionally abusive'and that the marriage had been dead.

I won't lie- it's gonna be tough paying for everything myself including the mortgage, but I will do it because I have to, both for me & for our daughter. I feel mentally & physically strong & regardless of the outcome of this marriage, I know I will have done all I can and will be the better person for it.

I still see my wife 4-5 times a week and am doing what I can to be there without being a doormat.
My DD4 and I went to Disney last week and had a wonderful week together away from the stress at home. My wife was crying when we were leaving- I comforted her with a hug as it felt natural and the right thing to do. I later asked her father how she was doing and he told me that she would have to be ok as this is just another consequense of her selfish decision.

Of course I still love my wife- I wish I didn't. I still want to save my little family but recognise that may not happen.
I will however keep praying & keep fighting the fight.
All prayers and opinions/criticism/suggestions welcome.

Thank you

I suppose what I am asking to the more experienced people here is- How does this fit with what you have seen before regarding my WW's actions and the timeframe since D day (6 1/2 months)?

Does it seem typical behaviour? Walls up when she is with me, trying to convince everyone I was a terrible husband etc...(I really wasn't)

Just to refresh- my wife has suffered from depression this past 4 years for which she was diagnosed & taking medication for. She now blames all of this on me and is at pains to insist she has never been happier than she is now...

Before this affair, she was insisting that she couldn't have got through all of this without me and that I was her rock etc. She told all of her family & friends this, which is one of the reasons they are finding it hard to swallow the whole 'abusive husband' agenda she is now trying to push.

I wasn't perfect, but i promise I always did my best for her & my family.

Others will chime in, I'm sure. It's a little early yet, still here in the states!

I've been following your saga, and I think you are doing fine. The most important thing is to stay strong. Your DD needs it, and as much as your WW does not know it, after all this, she'll be glad you were strong, too!

Refresh my memory, please? YOu DID reveal the A to your (and her family), I know. Did you also contact OM's family, too? He needs to feel pressure from that end, too.

If so, then for now, just continue to Plan A as best you can, and be assured you are doing everything you can to ultimately save your M. And if not, as least you were true to yourself, did not demean yourself or lose your self-respect in any way while your WW goes through this "alien" phase!

God Bless,

Edit to add: Your WW's behavior is totally typical! Read up on others' story's and you will be surprised at how similar they are. It'll actually make you laugh, how they all follow the same "script" yet think they are being so original! HA!

Thank you OlderWiser. Yes, I did a full exposure to both families, friends & workplace. It did create a lot of tension at the time and resulted in the OM being kicked out of his fathers house and him and WW renting a house. A lot of his family have disowned him too. Neither WW or OM will be able to get a mortgage as their names are on mortgages already and their income is poor.
Logically speaking, this makes zero sense, but I understand logic doesn't come in to it.

Thank you, all other opinions welcome too.

My opinion is that you are doing very well surviving the affair.

You feel love for your wife because she has a nice account in your love bank (from previous deposits) and it will take more horrific things and time to whittle that away to not feel love for her.

Only more time will tell if she ever turns around and back to you.

You can hope for it but not count on it. You are giving it a best shot and that is all you can do.

Thank you for your response Reading.
Some places I read that the longer the affair goes on, the more reality will set in and the mundane aspects of ordinary life take over & WW may realise that OM is not this perfect guy. That would obviously be a good thing.
Then other places I read that the longer it goes on, the more emotionally connected they become & the less chance there is of it ending.
Anyone any opinions on either of these scenarios based on what you've seen in the past?

Obviously they are both really selfish in their actions and the lies & deceit of their emotional affair does not make a good basis for a long term relationship.

Please God she will come back to the good person I know she rally is.

All you can do is have faith in the facts that you yourself have pointed out, and know that you are still there as a sign to her when there's trouble in her supposed paradise. You have covered all bases and been valiant in your fight for her. Glean strength from those threads which ended well. Know that success takes longer than we want it to.
Being the BS waiting and hoping in Plan A is not easy. But kudos to you, Sarma. I hope it works out for you.

You are giving it the best chance and either scenario can happen. If she does stay with him, she will never be truly happy due to the toxic relationship they have.
Whatever happens, you will feel proud of yourself.
That is the best answer. I know you want her back but you can only control your own actions.

[quote=reading]
Whatever happens, you will feel proud of yourself.
/quote]

Exactly.

Just a little update as it's been a while. Unfortunately nothing positive to report. My wife continues her affair with OM.
She has quit her job with him, but I see this as purely a tactic to try and take our DD(4) from me. Her solicitor will have told her that she needs to do this and portray herself as the ever attentive, ever available mother. She has since taken up a position at another company in the same sector.

DD(4) still lives at home with me the majority of the time (4 nights per week) and stays with my wife at her parents house the rest of the week, around 100 yards away. On the 4 nights where my wife doesn't have our daughter, she stays with OM in rented accommodation. She has introduced OM to our daughter while his 2 children were present and they all played happy families together.

I continue to enjoy the full support of her family with the exception of her mother who is as thick as thieves with my wife and no doubt has met OM. Her father and siblings have refused to meet OM, despite my wife asking them to.

As regards Plan A, there are few opportunities to exercise it, but I continue to be myself and am kind and caring where I can without being over the top. My wife is not receptive to me and continues to treat me with distain and contempt. I don't know what I have done to deserve it.
Where there once was doubt on my wife's part, seems to have been replaced by a sense of entitlement, that this is all just fine. The major fly in the ointment is me and how I have refused to be walked over and leave our marital home and give up on our daughter. I will continue to be the best dad I can possibly be for her, I hope someday she will realise the truth.

So, we are currently scheduled for a court appearance as my wife tries to take our daughter from our home. Please God they will see all of this for what it is; 2 selfish people who walked out on their families and who are happy to be part time parents and enjoy each other the rest of the time. They have no mortgage, no real responsibilities or ties whatsoever.
Why wouldn't they be happy?

Not sure where I go from here, but will keep going knowing that I have done all that I possibly can for our marriage/family. It will be a year since D day on July 4th, but the EA was going on for 6 months prior.

Hang in there, sarma. You're doing all the right things.

Have you talked to OM's BW recently?

I have, she has moved on and wants nothing to do with him. She is currently going through similar court battles with OM over access to the children.

My wife and I were I court today where she got 50-50 shared residence of our daughter (4). She has rented accommodation 6 mikes from here where she will move in with OM & get to play happy families with our daughter & his children when he has them.
I'm done with her-I no longer recognise who she is or who I loved. We have no dealings at all now, our daughter is dropped off and picked up from our home with no conversation.
Despite my best efforts, I've failed.

I sincerely hope one day she will realise the error of her ways but who knows. As I sat in court today arguing over our daughter I lost all respect for who my wife has become.
We're still married and neither of us is pushing for divorce but sure what good is that?

2 selfish selfish people have got what they want and will stop at nothing, regardless of what psychological harm they will cause to kids etc.

I hope there is such a thing as Karma, I'm just so sad it has come to this.

There is no such thing as karma. Affairs do, however, die a natural death, particularly once the affair partners find themselves as domestic partners. The seeds of destruction are incorporated into the very foundation of their relationship.

That said, whether or not you have failed has yet to be determined. The story is not over, yet. Plan B may be the best step at this point. You need to assess yourself and decide if Plan A still makes sense for you. If you are capable, you will still have opportunities to make love bank deposits, even in this situation. In any event, you need to give this another year and a half before totally giving up.