Marriage Builders®
Posted By: WrestlerChemist My situation. - 10/27/15 01:29 AM
I was told by some family to get on these forums for help/advice by "sexymommabear" and "Herpapabear"

My wife and I are both turning 25 in a month or so. We have been married for a little over 2 years. We have no kids, we miscarried a few months ago. We are both about equally accomplished in our career paths, but she works in corporate so she makes more money than me. We have a house that's 1.5years into its mortgage, 2 cars that are not paid off yet and we both have student loans - however, we have never missed a payment and have no trouble making these payments.
Three weeks ago, my wife had an affair. A workplace affair - albeit he works for the company from a different state. In two days, she is getting on a plane to see him again.
I do not want to divorce her, I love this woman with everything I am. I made a commitment to her before God. She's determined to leave me.
For starts, I need help Exposing & Ending a workplace affair in a way that is not vindictive or spiteful. I want this affair to end because I care about her, and this affair is dangerous for her - regardless of if my marriage survives.
I appreciate anyone that tells me I should leave her, but that is not an option for me at the moment. She is my one and only.

Thanks for any insight.
WrestlerChemist
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 01:51 AM
Welcome to MB. Sorry for the circumstances that bring you here.

Is OM married? Workplace exposure it crucial to nuke this affair. Is OM in a management position?

Who have you exposed the affair to so far?
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 02:05 AM
WrestlerChemist, I am heartbroken for you and your wife. I am sitting here in tears for you.

black_raven, MelodyLane, Mr. & Mrs. Wondering, MarriedForever and Neak were some of the wise people who walked me through my darkest times. I hope they will show up here. You are in good hands with them.

We are praying for you and for Mrs. WrestlerChemist.

Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 02:06 AM
Exposure will always appear spiteful and vindictive to the wayward spouse but your marriage can survive her anger.....her ongoing affair not so much.

As long as your exposure is done with the intent of breaking up the affair and saving your wife from making the biggest mistake of her life versus simply punishing her for cheating on you...it's not vindictive.

short term marriage without children....go big on exposure. You got one big shot to bust things up.

Tell us about OM's side of things. Is he married? It's often much easier to get the OM to dump your wife than to get a wayward wife to look at reality. She's got to become more trouble than she is worth. That happens when everyone he knows and loves is giving him grief for messing with a married woman and he knows he can't show his face anywhere with her. If he's single....he's got a world of single women to pursue that have a lot less baggage than your wife. You just have to make the baggage even heavier.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 02:38 AM
You need to worry less about how the exposure might be perceived, and concentrate on making it the most effective. You should expose to everybody at once. You don't want to give the affair partners time to spin a story. You want the exposure to swamp them like a tidal wave. That will give you the best chance of crushing the fantasy that supports the affair.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 03:09 AM
My wife has intentionally kept information pertaining to him a secret. All I know is that he is in the same company and he is single.

I believe she has kept it a secret for the fact that she doesn't want me to expose her. However, I have plenty to expose her with... I am afraid to appear spiteful (as you have mentioned, I should worry less about that).

So far the only people that know are her parents, my brother and anyone she has told in private.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 03:49 AM
Hi WC, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. Exposure is your most powerful weapon against the affair. Affairs thrive and grow on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only serves to enable the affair. Don't worry about what anyone may say about exposure because those people won't pay the price. YOU WILL. It is not their getting gored, after all. Don't let it concern you one bit.

Please go read through the exposure thread linked in my signature and come back and lets talk.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My wife has intentionally kept information pertaining to him a secret. All I know is that he is in the same company and he is single.

I would find out who he is and check out his facebook page. Finding out his name, etc, will be a critical first step in saving your marriage.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 10:53 AM
I should probably mention that my wife and I seldomnly are on Facebook. That being said - I did take your advice and look when this was first happening. I could only really narrow it down to four people (1 mutal friend - my wife, works at same company..etc) She does you Facebook messenger, but there is no way I know to view that. If she doesn't tell me his name I do not know how to get it.
The four Facebook friends have not been active since like 2014 in some cases. But I do have reason to believe they primarily communicated through Facebook messenger.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 11:00 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I should probably mention that my wife and I seldomnly are on Facebook. That being said - I did take your advice and look when this was first happening. I could only really narrow it down to four people (1 mutal friend - my wife, works at same company..etc) She does you Facebook messenger, but there is no way I know to view that. If she doesn't tell me his name I do not know how to get it.
The way to get that is to put spyware on the device she is using. What does she use? Do you know the password?
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My wife has intentionally kept information pertaining to him a secret. All I know is that he is in the same company and he is single.

I believe she has kept it a secret for the fact that she doesn't want me to expose her. However, I have plenty to expose her with... I am afraid to appear spiteful (as you have mentioned, I should worry less about that).

So far the only people that know are her parents, my brother and anyone she has told in private.
Of course your wife wants to keep her affair secret. Everybody in an affair wants secrecy. Secrecy enables affairs. That is why exposure is so effective at disrupting them.

What you are likely to discover eventually is that you played a surprisingly small role in your wife's affair. She didn't think about you at all. It was all about maintaining her fantasy.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 11:03 AM
She uses a Samsung phone - I have zero access to it. I have already looked into the spyware and apps I would need to download on her phone. Also, I do not know her unlock password.

I forgot to also mention, she is somewhat moved out of the house. She does not sleep or do anything at the house.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 11:04 AM
Mr eureka, I totally understand. Some of the other comments were asking for the OM name - which I simply have no means of obtaining.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Mr eureka, I totally understand. Some of the other comments were asking for the OM name - which I simply have no means of obtaining.

WC, you have to get his name. Can you slip spyware on her phone? Have you looked at her phone bill? Surely she is talking to him on the phone.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 12:34 PM
check this out: http://www.teensafe.com/

Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 12:43 PM
Can you get a PI? She is meeting him. A PI could follow and get you further proof and a name.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I should probably mention that my wife and I seldomnly are on Facebook. That being said - I did take your advice and look when this was first happening. I could only really narrow it down to four people (1 mutal friend - my wife, works at same company..etc) She does you Facebook messenger, but there is no way I know to view that. If she doesn't tell me his name I do not know how to get it.
The four Facebook friends have not been active since like 2014 in some cases. But I do have reason to believe they primarily communicated through Facebook messenger.

Hi, WC. Herpapabear was the best mentor I ever had from this forum in the process of saving my marriage and becoming a better husband. Sexymamabear helped persuade my wife to reveal her Facebook affair, which was primarily conducted through Facebook messenger. I will always be in their debt.

Do not talk to your wife about exposing her affair. This is something to do unilaterally. She will make her own decision about how to perceive your motives. There is a good chance she won't feel positive about it for a long time, but that is fine. Just walk through the steps and get the information and get it done.

Please pay very close attention to MelodyLane (as I'm sure HPB and SMB have already advised you) - her years of experience at ending affairs are legendary.

You have to find out the information about this affair, starting with the person's identity. This is a problem that must be solved! Does she facebook with him on a computer at all? I'd get keylogging software onto that computer pronto.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Mr eureka, I totally understand. Some of the other comments were asking for the OM name - which I simply have no means of obtaining.

WC, you have to get his name. Can you slip spyware on her phone? Have you looked at her phone bill? Surely she is talking to him on the phone.
WC - I sense that you are somebody who likes to follow the rules and do things cleanly. These traits are not going to serve you well at this point in time. You need to become objective-oriented about what you do. Finding out details about the OM is the top priority. Your wife has no reasonable expectation of privacy from you as her husband. You need to get aggressive. Saving your marriage might just require that you step on the grass.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 03:30 PM
I just don't have physical access to her phone and she is the primary owner of our phone service. Without asking her for the account password - I cannot view our paperless bills.

Her parents have also stated that they are fearful of her losing her job. But are agreeing that it cannot be a secret anymore.
I am someone who plays by the rules, and I do get the feeling that its not going to help me here.

Should I give her the chance to not get on the plane? (Albeit a lost cause) or do I just pull the trigger and let everyone outside of her work know?
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 03:39 PM
Let everyone including her work know.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 03:40 PM
Can you get a PI? Can you try to break the password?
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 03:56 PM
To do an effective exposure, you simply have to know who the OM is. You need to find out this essential piece of information first. You need to expose to his contacts as well as to hers.

Obviously, workplace exposure will be seriously compromised if you go to her employer and say "I know she is having an affair with someone at work, but I have no idea who."
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 04:39 PM
I told one of her coworkers today and as expected, She has detonated in my face. Called me immediately furious. Said she is talking to a lawyer this afternoon to draw up papers.

I guess it's going well so far...
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 04:52 PM
And what did you expect? She wants to control you, and you are giving her every opportunity to do so if you trickle-expose.

You need to be strategic about this. That is why you have to find out about the OM, then gather all your information together and send it to all your exposure targets all at once. You are trying to blow up the affair, and you are going to have to build an exposure bomb to do so. Trickling the exposure out just enables the affair partners to maneuver and frustrate you. They have all the reason in the world to fear you. Don't give away your advantage.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I just don't have physical access to her phone and she is the primary owner of our phone service. Without asking her for the account password - I cannot view our paperless bills.

Her parents have also stated that they are fearful of her losing her job. But are agreeing that it cannot be a secret anymore.
I am someone who plays by the rules, and I do get the feeling that its not going to help me here.

Should I give her the chance to not get on the plane? (Albeit a lost cause) or do I just pull the trigger and let everyone outside of her work know?

Find out who the OM is. Solve the problems that are standing in the way of figuring this out. If you have to, hire a private investigator.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:15 PM
WC, the plan here works very well if you follow it.

But if you start getting steps out of order, like exposing before you have the identity of the OM, the plan will not work well.

It's probably a bit of an understatement to say that I advocate following the plan. It works a lot better than not following it.

Don't tell us why you can't do something and then skip to the next step or start talking about what other things you could do. That won't work!!!

You simply MUST solve the problems that are preventing you from doing what needs to be done. You must know who the OM is before you proceed further. Stay on point, don't move on to something else, assuming you want to save your marriage.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:20 PM
Quote
In two days, she is getting on a plane to see him again.
That's a perfect opportunity for a PI.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:25 PM
I found the ID of the other man. and his telephone #.

Should I call him myself? Make it known I know his name ?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I found the ID of the other man. and his telephone #.

Should I call him myself? Make it known I know his name ?
You need to follow the steps in MelodyLane's exposure thread. If you contact him first you will tip him off, and then you will never be able to find his mother and friends on Facebook, because he will cut you off. He will also spin the story of how a jealous husband thinks OM is after his wife, when it is no such thing because they are only friends at work.

You MUST listen to advice and follow the steps outlined. You seem to have a problem calming down, listening, and acting strategically. This will cause you immense problems.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I found the ID of the other man. and his telephone #.
PS: How do you know it is him? How did you discover this?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:46 PM
I got onto our phone bill - reverse looked up his phone number.

He has no family on Facebook except his brother who I reached out too.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
He has no family on Facebook except his brother who I reached out too.
So you have already continued the trickle exposures, despite having been told to stop doing this earlier, when you informed someone at work.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
He has no family on Facebook except his brother who I reached out too.
Also - you are missing my point!

If he realises that you have found him on FB, he will shut it down - block you from viewing it - and then you will never be able to research other people. The first thing you should have done is copied all his FB contacts into a Word document, for use later. He is absolutely BOUND to block you when he knows that you have found him.

His other contacts could lead indirectly to the name of his mother or sister - don't forget that they might have different surnames from him.

You can find a lot of contacts by researching friends of friends, and the groups that OM belongs to, but if you won't stop and follow the steps that you've been told about, you will lose the opportunity to make this affair painful for him, and make it stop.

Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I found the ID of the other man. and his telephone #.
Is he married?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:32 PM
He is not married.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:35 PM
As I stated before. His Facebook is completely blank... Nobody involved in the scenario relies on FB. I have told all family members so far on my side and her side, I have told many friends of hers, one coworker and his Brother. The article says aim to tell everyone in about 24hours.
Her parents do not want me to tell her boss because they don't want her to lose her job.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I got onto our phone bill - reverse looked up his phone number.

He has no family on Facebook except his brother who I reached out too.

Don't reach out to anybody else until the people here confirm that you have enough information. PLAN! AIM! Don't just start firing!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:39 PM
Ok. Sorry guys. I thought I understood...
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:44 PM
Any advice how to respond when she calls in a fury - I have kept the exposure article in mind in that I do not say anyone told me. I am saying its my plan and I am not keeping secrets...

Any other advice?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
As I stated before. His Facebook is completely blank...
That is not what you stated before. You said that he had "no family on FB except his brother" - how is that completely blank?

And why are you arguing with me? Shall I leave you to get on with this your way?
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Any advice how to respond when she calls in a fury - I have kept the exposure article in mind in that I do not say anyone told me. I am saying its my plan and I am not keeping secrets...

Any other advice?

Just don't talk about the exposure with her. She will be mad and there will be no way to reason with her. Don't attempt to tell her your motivations were pure and not vindictive or whatever - she won't care what you have to say, so just don't argue with her. As I said earlier "Do not talk to your wife about exposing her affair. This is something to do unilaterally. She will make her own decision about how to perceive your motives. There is a good chance she won't feel positive about it for a long time, but that is fine. Just walk through the steps and get the information and get it done."

But for now, make sure you gather all the information you need, first. You did GREAT tracking down the OM's identity!
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Her parents do not want me to tell her boss because they don't want her to lose her job.

You might lose some support from her parents but they are simply enabling her. It sounds like they are even letting her stay and sleep at their house which is actually interfering in itself.

If you divorce...your inlaws will end up on her side and supporting her bad choices aside. At the risk of upsetting them....expose her to her boss. You are actually being told she MIGHT actually lose her job over this....that's a good thing. She probably should lose her job. There are policies regarding workplace affairs for a reason. Maybe the boss is religious and simply won't support and enable affairs. All the more reason to expose as it is the bosses choice to continue to employ her or not.

Simply ---- It is the affair that will get her fired...NOT reporting the affair to management.

That being said....you don't want to expose to management by phone. A professional letter emailed to the President/Owner and copying the head of human resources basically saying they are having an affair, you hope to save your marriage and asking them what they intend to do about it. There is a form letter on MelodyLane's exposure thread somewhere.


Finding OM's mother is key to a good exposure. If OM likes his mom at all...he won't like the looks she gives him over finding out her son is dating a married woman. Some parents don't care...but most would. Not to mention, t'll make the fantasy of being the mom's favorite daughter in law a pipe dream. OM will be embarrassed to ever bring your wife around his family and; eventually, OM decides that the relationship is just too big a hassle. He dumps your wife and THEN your wife wakes up and say "what the heck was I thinking? or not (some never regain their sanity - I actually get a kick out of reading a tiny forum on the internet just full unrepentant adulterers whining about their now miserable lives that is, tongue in cheek, so obviously not their fault).

If you need help...as a trusted friend of herpapabear and sexymamabear (confirm with them yourself- don't take my word for it) email me the information you have and my wife and I might be able to find a lot more.

As far as your wife getting mad. Just let her rant and the longer you keep her talking to you and even yelling at you the more time you are spending with her that she isn't talking/chatting with OM and the more of her emotional need for conversation you meet. I just kind of took a "oops, was that bad? You're right, maybe I shouldn't have done that...I've never been cheated on before and I don't know what is the right thing to do. I just know I'm trying to save you from making the biggest mistake of your life. The path of the adulterours woman is a destructive one and you'll be miserable, lost and, by law, damed if you continue down this path. In addition, what kind of guy pursues and has an affair with a married woman? You are being attacked and I mean to save you if I can. So what would you like for dinner?

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 09:40 PM
"
Her parents have also stated that they are fearful of her losing her job. But are agreeing that it cannot be a secret anymore. "

Doing some catch up, but wanted to respond to this. You should be fearful that she does NOT lose her job, because that is your only hope. She has already ruined her career at that company. I assure it is only a matter of time before they find out on their own. They will either fire her or quietly manage her out. Hiring managers do not want workplace cheaters on their teams because they are unprofessional and can't be trusted. They are loose cannons.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 09:44 PM
WC, I would get these exposures wrapped up today. Expose to her workplace and to the OM's parents. You can google the OM and see if you can find his parents. Don't give up until this is completed because it is a critical exposure.

Did you read the directions for workplace exposure?
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/27/15 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You should be fearful that she does NOT lose her job, because that is your only hope.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 12:53 AM
Thanks guys just a heads up - I worked on exposure all day. It was extremely hard...
Every person I told felt more and more like a betrayal. But - sexymommabear and HerPapaBear, told me that I did really well.
I told Her boss, her brother, my brother, her three best girlfriends, two of her coworkers and the best I could get on the OM was two messages out to his brother and sister (found later). I Know it was not advised but I told the OM I know his Identity (which he was probably pretty certain was going to be kept secret). I thought that would help "increase her baggage". Her parents, my parents and two of her uncles already knew.

I'm sorry if I fell short of your guys expectations but I tried hard. While she has betrayed her commitment to me, its still hard for me to cross her.

Goal moving forward - remain extremely low and let her love bust him.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 01:35 AM
You did an outstanding job of exposing. It is never an easy thing to do, but you did what was necessary anyway.

Now let the fallout land on everyone else while you stay quiet for a few days.
Posted By: Lary Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 01:46 AM
Just stay clam and strong bro. i been in that situation like you before. and i know how the feeling. good way to expose.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Thanks guys just a heads up - I worked on exposure all day. It was extremely hard...
Every person I told felt more and more like a betrayal. But - sexymommabear and HerPapaBear, told me that I did really well.
I told Her boss, her brother, my brother, her three best girlfriends, two of her coworkers and the best I could get on the OM was two messages out to his brother and sister (found later). I Know it was not advised but I told the OM I know his Identity (which he was probably pretty certain was going to be kept secret). I thought that would help "increase her baggage". Her parents, my parents and two of her uncles already knew.

I'm sorry if I fell short of your guys expectations but I tried hard. While she has betrayed her commitment to me, its still hard for me to cross her.

Goal moving forward - remain extremely low and let her love bust him.

You did great!! Only thing I would suggest doing would be sending a letter to the director of HR, a key VP and the OM's parents. The affair should be formally exposed at her workplace. It is not uncommon for a direct boss to hide an affair. This is why it is so critical to expose to several authorties at work. Let them knwo the OM and your wife plan on hooking up this weekend!

OM's parents will be a MAJOR exposure that will help you ruin the affair. Find them! Don't give up until you do.

I think you did great contacting the OM and telling him you know!! The message you should send him is this:




Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 01:49 AM
]
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Her parents, my parents and two of her uncles already knew.

Who told her uncles? DID YOU? And are they using their influence to persuade her to end her affair?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 01:51 AM
]
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I Know it was not advised but I told the OM I know his Identity (which he was probably pretty certain was going to be kept secret)

What did you say to him? I would also expose the affair tonight to his supervisor and the HR Director in his location.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Every person I told felt more and more like a betrayal. But - sexymommabear and HerPapaBear, told me that I did really well.
You did what you had to do to give the recovery of your marriage its very best chance for success. Your feelings are deceiving. You did well, and believe it or not, the day may come when your wife will actually thank you for doing this. Just expect to have to endure much more before the fog dissipates.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 03:31 AM
You did well, WC.

Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
the best I could get on the OM was two messages out to his brother and sister (found later).

The messages to OM's brother and sister...I'm assuming this is a fb message. Did you pay the $1 to get the message to the inbox? If you didn't pay and these people are not on your friend list, the message will go to the spam folder and no notification is sent. Resend and pay the $2 for the two messages if that is the case. I believe you also have to send the message from a computer vs a cell phone for this option to appear.

Hope you are able to get some sleep.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 01:07 PM
I did pay the $1 to get them sent to their inbox.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 02:21 PM
Update for today - "the gates are open"

She has called me about 30 times, I did answer once to tell her "I love you, and I care about you. I am trying to end this affair because its dangerous for you." She obviously did not like that response - just like I knew she would not.

She is claiming I have the wrong OM, which I would say is probably false. The OM did call me and I answered (did not remember the number), he was our dialogue roughly:
"This is OM, is this WrestlerChemist"
- Yah, how's it going?
"I am pretty concerned about these accusations, I do not really understand."
-You are having an affair with my wife, what's to understand?
"We are just friends"
-You two talk on the phone for 90 minute intervals a lot of times for friends, and she doesn't just fly to SC for friends.
"Oh, shes flying to SC, I didn't know that. I don't appreciate that you have my brother involved. You are going a long way for this accusation. And you are wrong."
-IF I am wrong, then your safe. Have a good day.

He sounded like the right guy - trying to act innocent and he was really sarcastic.

My wife said she hates me more than anybody on Earth, but I prayed about that. I am still fearful that this may not work out, but I have done the best I can do to salvage this marriage...

I will keep updates coming. If you guys have an additional advice I am open ears. Thanks

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 02:31 PM
How did you find out about the affair? Did she admit it to you?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 02:39 PM
WC, can you go back and address my posts from yesterday? thanks
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My wife said she hates me more than anybody on Earth

They always say that. It means you hit close to the mark.

Now, go back and reread MelodyLane's posts from yesterday and answer her questions.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 03:07 PM
Melody, Sorry.

I told him that I am aware of the affair he is having with my wife.

Her dad told her uncles.

She told me about the affair, but not the individual.

I do not know how to get in contact with anyone higher than my wife's boss, let alone someone from another state.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 03:24 PM
She just texted me - "Why are you all the sudden deciding that you all you want to do is hurt me?"

My heart aches for her so much, but I chose a path and I believe this is the only way I can save my marriage. I am done responding to her at least I would say until Monday.

I have talked to sexymommabear and Herpapabear about meeting up in person to decide/prepare for next steps...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Melody, Sorry.

I told him that I am aware of the affair he is having with my wife.

Good deal. That is your evidence.

Quote
Her dad told her uncles.

i would contact them directly. Use the talking points on my exposure thread and ask them to use their influence with your WW to persuade her to end her affair.

Quote
She told me about the affair, but not the individual.

Quote
I do not know how to get in contact with anyone higher than my wife's boss, let alone someone from another state.

Figure this out. Go to their webpage, call the company and ask for the name of the Director of HR. You don't just stop and give up. Stay on this.

You also need to find the oM's parents. Have you found them yet?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 03:40 PM
The purpose of exposure is 2-fold, it is to gain support for your marriage and splash a dose of reality on the affair. It is no fun to get high on crack when people are all watching you. An affair is like a crack addiction. So just telling the uncles about the affair is not sufficient, you need their support. It would be ideal if they could call her and express their disappointment and ask her to end her affair. Use these talking points:

I am calling [emailing] you because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a man named XXX. She is flying to be with him this weekend. I am devastated because I love her so much.

She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As her family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 04:53 PM
You hit the mark.
Friends in "adultery speak" = affair partner(at minimum emotional).

You are correct opposite sex "friends" do not speak on the phone for 90min repeatedly.
Posted By: Woundednotbroken Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 06:42 PM
You did GREAT!!! My husband once told me that I ruined everything and he was going to try to give me a chance until I told everyone, yeaaaaaaah ok. For what its worth, exposure DID save my marriage. We're 2 years out and better than we have ever been in our entire marriage. Even if you don't recover your marriage, you will recover YOURSELF and you will be better for it! You've got this. Keep on the path with the guidance you're given here and your life will change.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/28/15 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
She just texted me - "Why are you all the sudden deciding that you all you want to do is hurt me?"

My heart aches for her so much, but I chose a path and I believe this is the only way I can save my marriage. I am done responding to her at least I would say until Monday.

I have talked to sexymommabear and Herpapabear about meeting up in person to decide/prepare for next steps...

Keep working on the exposure.

Don't forget that you can't debate her on this, so don't even try. Just keep doing the right thing.

(Tell SMB and HPB that markos and Prisca say hi!)
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 02:57 PM
I have lost support from my wife's parents... Albeit likely temporary. They said I went too far with the exposure. I'm pretty stuck now - the waiting game is no fun.
Posted By: typicalman Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I have lost support from my wife's parents... Albeit likely temporary. They said I went too far with the exposure. I'm pretty stuck now - the waiting game is no fun.
I feel your pain on this. My MIL had a similar reaction. Although, I will say this comes from a side of the family with very weak, if not disfunctional marriages. I did not find that anyone that appreciated the value of marriage oposed the exposure, but those with weak values did. When your inlaws show weak values it partially explains why you spouse got caught up with infadelity in the first place.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The purpose of exposure is 2-fold, it is to gain support for your marriage and splash a dose of reality on the affair. It is no fun to get high on crack when people are all watching you. An affair is like a crack addiction. So just telling the uncles about the affair is not sufficient, you need their support. It would be ideal if they could call her and express their disappointment and ask her to end her affair. Use these talking points:

Contact the uncles directly, as MelodyLane. Don't rely on her dad doing it, because he is apparently a friend of the affair, not of the marriage.

Don't wait! Don't drag out exposure! Get this done!
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 03:46 PM
Reread MelodyLane's posts and see what else you could be doing.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Melody, Sorry.

I told him that I am aware of the affair he is having with my wife.

Good deal. That is your evidence.

Quote
Her dad told her uncles.

i would contact them directly. Use the talking points on my exposure thread and ask them to use their influence with your WW to persuade her to end her affair.

Quote
She told me about the affair, but not the individual.

Quote
I do not know how to get in contact with anyone higher than my wife's boss, let alone someone from another state.

Figure this out. Go to their webpage, call the company and ask for the name of the Director of HR. You don't just stop and give up. Stay on this.

You also need to find the oM's parents. Have you found them yet?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I have lost support from my wife's parents... Albeit likely temporary. They said I went too far with the exposure. I'm pretty stuck now - the waiting game is no fun.

Don't let this bother you. Many people do not understand the value of exposure. But they are not the ones who will suffer the consequences if you didn't expose. You are the one whose ox is getting gored, NOT THEM. Follow the professional and seasoned advice of a clinical psychologist who has been saving marriages for 40 years:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
When Should an Affair Be Exposed? by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

So while I know your in-laws mean well, they have no experience in saving marriages. Dr. Harley DOES.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 05:04 PM
Thanks Melody for the reassurance. My wife's parents are some of the most Godly people I know, and they have excellent marriage values. They are on an emotional roller coaster, not as extreme as mine. They are thinking "how could our daughter do anything like this?"
I do believe in what I've done. I have talked to a lot of her close friends and family members. I just keep letting them know that the affair is dangerous and needs to end.
I am 99.9% sure she got on the plane last night, hopefully I induced enough panic on the right OM to make them two love bust each other... I am prepared to keep this fight up much longer than a few days - but let's just say, its nice to hope she gets back and ends the affair due to outside pressures...
I am doubtful though.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 07:47 PM
The bad thing I am starting to encounter as I tell some of her good work friends is that they all think "everyone is their own person at the end of the day." Exactly the mindset this company has put onto my wife...

But they all also think I am nuts for trying to work it out, that they could never bare the pain/betrayal. That's why I think this is going to work, because I am baring the pain and my love for her is shining through...
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 10/29/15 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Thanks Melody for the reassurance. My wife's parents are some of the most Godly people I know, and they have excellent marriage values. They are on an emotional roller coaster, not as extreme as mine. They are thinking "how could our daughter do anything like this?"
Some of the most Godly people I know have absolutely NO CLUE on how to recover from affairs. You are engaged in this process to save your marriage, and not to collect opinions from those around you on what they think you should be doing. Dr. Harley is an expert. Many of us have used his affair-recovery methods to great success.

Her parents thinking "how could our daughter do this?" is direct evidence that their opinions are worthless. We KNOW how she could do it. We have been through this ourselves. I personally am married to and very much in love with a woman who proved she could do it. We understand how it happens and what has to be done to save a marriage. Unfortunately, being Godly is not an attribute for knowing how to survive infidelity.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 10/30/15 12:11 AM
IF you have further discussions with her "Godly" parents you may have the opportunity to assert:

"Did you not entrust your daughter, in front of God and numerous witnesses to my care? If so, then you must trust me that I know what is best for her. She was God's gift to me and God is directing me to fight for her and try to save her from making the biggest mistake of her life [and thereafter]. I would really appreciate your 100% support right now but understand if you are skeptical of my efforts to save her. All I ask is that you not enable her rebellion against God."

If her parents are letting her stay there and continue to behave this way...that is a mistake and you should ask them to send her home and be offended if they do not respect your wishes. She is not an abused woman needing shelter. She is an adulterous woman seeking out and exploiting the weaknesses of those who care about her so she can continue down the adulterous path.

In the alternative...she can stay there only if they forbid her to conduct the affair under their roof in any way shape or manner and they follow through insuring that she sticks to their rules. If she ends the affair ...her parents house isn't the worst place for her to start defogging a bit. It's not the best alternative because parents aren't very good a holding a wayward wife accountable. It's preferable they send her home (or just make her leave).
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/30/15 12:21 PM
Thanks Mr. Wondering - that is good notes for me if they communicate with me again. As a side note, I would be thrilled if she was staying with her parents.
She is actually staying with a coworker - who I told on exposure day. I don't know where she goes from here. Only time will tell on Sunday night when she gets back.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 10:00 PM
I have a question. When she gets back on Sunday night from her trip with the OM, what do I do?
Plan A right away? I kind of read Dr. Harleys Plan A recommendation as after the affair has ended... What do I do in the meantime? Keep laying low and protecring my LB?

Just some thoughts I had - and you guys have been so helpful thus far.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 10:11 PM
Plan A is intended for when the spouse is in an affair. In Plan A, you do your best to meet her needs and present yourself as an attractive person. No lovebusting, no fighting; don't allow her to BAIT you into fights. Tell her how much her affair hurts you and ask her to end affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
The bad thing I am starting to encounter as I tell some of her good work friends is that they all think "everyone is their own person at the end of the day." Exactly the mindset this company has put onto my wife...

I think that is really cute and winsome. Would they say this if she was a serial killer or a heroin addict? They are just "being their own person," right? crazy

She is doing something very self destructive that will wreck her life so I find it interesting that her so-called "friends" would enable her in such a way. The reason they do is because they DON'T CARE. "Friends" don't sit around and parrot idiotic phrases when their friends are harming themselves. I don't have a single friend who would put up with me if I were having an affair. Not a single one. Because friends don't help friends harm themselves.

Those people are not her "friends." They clearly don't care about her.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
"Friends" don't sit around and parrot idiotic phrases when their friends are harming themselves. I don't have a single friend who would put up with me if I were having an affair. Not a single one. Because friends don't help friends harm themselves.

Melody that's my exact thinking. They aren't her friends, they are someone who they've convinced my wife to join their lifestyle.

I will read up on Plan A as much as I can and plan on no love busting. I do have some questions about what exactly to say... I get "this affair is hurting me and I want you to end it."
But how many times can I say that? Could someone maybe give me like three phrases to come back to so I have a defined plan. I believe with a well thought out plan I will be best prepared so I never accidentally love bust.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 10:37 PM
Melody I am very appreciative of how quickly you generally respond by the way. Thank you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
"Friends" don't sit around and parrot idiotic phrases when their friends are harming themselves. I don't have a single friend who would put up with me if I were having an affair. Not a single one. Because friends don't help friends harm themselves.

Melody that's my exact thinking. They aren't her friends, they are someone who they've convinced my wife to join their lifestyle.

I will read up on Plan A as much as I can and plan on no love busting. I do have some questions about what exactly to say... I get "this affair is hurting me and I want you to end it."
But how many times can I say that? Could someone maybe give me like three phrases to come back to so I have a defined plan. I believe with a well thought out plan I will be best prepared so I never accidentally love bust.

You can say something like: "I am so very hurt by your affair and am asking that you end all contact with OM. This has broken my heart." Other than that, try to stay out of anything deep. Just be as pleasant as possible and don't talk about the problems. Keep it light!

The reason you don't want to get into any serious talks is because she is not using reason and you won't be able to reason with her. Serious talks will only make the environment very unpleasant.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Melody I am very appreciative of how quickly you generally respond by the way. Thank you.

You are very welcome!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 11:18 PM
This might be an odd question... But I am fully expecting that at least at first she is going to an attorney...
Anyone know how long I can contest/delay the divorce process? We live in Ohio.

This could happen in her "defogging" process while she is furious at me. I am still hopeful that she will come back around after the dust settles.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 10/31/15 11:39 PM
I am not sure about your laws there. I will tell you that almost all waywards threaten to file for divorce and few actually do. Even if your wife does, that doesn't mean it is the end. We have had people get remarried.
Posted By: Ron_C Re: My situation. - 11/01/15 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
The bad thing I am starting to encounter as I tell some of her good work friends is that they all think "everyone is their own person at the end of the day." Exactly the mindset this company has put onto my wife...

I think that is really cute and winsome. Would they say this if she was a serial killer or a heroin addict? They are just "being their own person," right? crazy

She is doing something very self destructive that will wreck her life so I find it interesting that her so-called "friends" would enable her in such a way. The reason they do is because they DON'T CARE. "Friends" don't sit around and parrot idiotic phrases when their friends are harming themselves. I don't have a single friend who would put up with me if I were having an affair. Not a single one. Because friends don't help friends harm themselves.

Those people are not her "friends." They clearly don't care about her.

I second that, I guess you can call them fair weather friends, or something just not true friends.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/02/15 08:58 PM
So should I still be exposing? I realize that the "nuclear" exposure stage is well over, but should I still tell people as I am reminded of them? I told a couple other of her friends that I tracked down today... As per sexymammabear and herpapabear, I have been letting people know that they were cosigner to the vows we both took before God on our wedding day.

I have been getting tips to on Plan A.

Additionally, I placed an order for the book LoveBusters. It should be here Friday.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/03/15 12:23 AM
Do you have the book, Surviving an Affair?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/03/15 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Do you have the book, Surviving an Affair?

Yes I read it a few times.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 11/03/15 11:11 PM
She's back in town now.....any reaction??? Often the wayward's response will be the silent treatment. In their foggy thinking they end up with the silent treatment being the best way to continue their affair without the interference of having to fight with their spouse. They know deep down they are in the wrong and arguing and getting angry with you over exposure is really non-sensical (and something they'd have done).

Plus...they think they can manage public perception by painting your exposure as mean, vindictive, untrue and abusive....and say "I'm not even talking to him, we are separated and I'm already in the process of filing a divorce...he is just trying to control me and make people hate me".

Don't sweat it. Your wife is out of her mind right now. Just tell the truth and keep on fighting and trying to save her. Like Melody said, when you interact with her...don't try to teach her. She's unteachable right now....so you really just confirm your position and keep it light and pleasant. As long as she's talking or yelling at you...she's not talking to OM. Long distant affairs are easier to fight since you don't usually have to deal with nightly "visits" between the affair partners. They just talk on the phone and/or facetime each other all day and night.

Any luck finding OM's family....parents?

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/04/15 12:23 PM
Mr wondering -

She is back in town and there was some reaction. During her lunch break (so I wasn't home) she came back to the house and stripped it of many of her things. I spoke with HerPapaBear, explaining that the variety of things she took was really odd - almost like she was just in a blind fury.
As for the OM and exposure, I think I put down as many bullets as I could. Never tracked down his parents, but did get eventual responses from the sister and brother. Sexymamabear has assured me that by now the parents undoubtedly know.
My wife's parents and I are still not on talking terms, but its something I just have to live with. In fact the last time I spoke to my father in law he said "I think you went to far. She's so angry she may never recover." Then he insinuated that she may move away. I think he is delusional - his daughter could never move away from him. We lived in another state for 1 year and she hated not being around her family.
SMB and HPB have just told me to hang low and protect myself. I have some house projects I'm starting with my dad & I've started to read books more often. I'm starting LoveBusters.

I still check in about everyday on here. You guys are very helpful.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/04/15 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
SMB and HPB have just told me to hang low and protect myself. I have some house projects I'm starting with my dad & I've started to read books more often. I'm starting LoveBusters.

You are in very good hands!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/04/15 03:06 PM
[/quote]
You are in very good hands! [/quote]

They are very nice - I am glad to have family like them.

I have voiced to HPB that it was hard to read LoveBusters at first (and I cannot imagine it gets any easier at first). I am having lots of "you idiot" and "how could you be so stupid" moments to myself as I read it.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/04/15 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[
I have voiced to HPB that it was hard to read LoveBusters at first (and I cannot imagine it gets any easier at first). I am having lots of "you idiot" and "how could you be so stupid" moments to myself as I read it.

Join the club!! grin
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 11/04/15 03:22 PM
My husband said the same thing. smile
Posted By: Ron_C Re: My situation. - 11/04/15 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
You are in very good hands! [/quote]

They are very nice - I am glad to have family like them.

I have voiced to HPB that it was hard to read LoveBusters at first (and I cannot imagine it gets any easier at first). I am having lots of "you idiot" and "how could you be so stupid" moments to myself as I read it. [/quote]

I felt the every same things. it was really hard for me finish the book, it just made me so emotional and I started to cry.
I am getting emotional writing this.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 03:48 PM
Quote
"he said "I think you went to far. She's so angry she may never recover." Then he insinuated that she may move away. I think he is delusional - his daughter could never move away from him. We lived in another state for 1 year and she hated not being around her family. "

Very well. Anger over exposure is a good sign. Sometimes it means deep down they DO have a conscience otherwise keeping up appearances wouldn't be an issue. Instead they'd just say "yes, we are having an affair, i love him and I'm going to go be with him". There would be no reason to be angry or fear losing their job or anything because in their mind...it'd be OK and acceptable. Since she knows it's NOT acceptable...it makes her angry to have it publicized.

As far as her moving...it would probably be better than her continuing this crap for 6 months or year and then moving there only to discover the relationship was a lie. If she goes now...OM has to meet all her needs....and she'll miss her family and she'll miss normal. She's likely to be back in about a month or two. Don't get me wrong....I'd certainly prefer she go "no contact" with OM right now and commit to recovery; but absent that, moving now might be just the amount of reality that relationship needs to end it. OM goes from having a side piece in another state to having a live in girlfriend with all sorts of typical wayward emotional and mental issues going on. OM truly might not even be up for it...he may have other girlfriends in his hometown and enjoy the affair game as a way to get women in bed versus truly having any desire to commit to your wife.



Quote
SMB and HPB have just told me to hang low and protect myself.

I know HPB goes to a large weekly morning men's bible study. If you aren't already, you should tag along. You and your wife remain "one flesh" and as Believers we are given power and authority over demons and the ability to heal. Pray for your flesh/wife. Cast out demons (from the both of you) and heal her wayward sickness. Check out the movie "War Room" and then fight for your wife spiritually as well.

Godspeed.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by MrWondering
Very well. Anger over exposure is a good sign. Sometimes it means deep down they DO have a conscience otherwise keeping up appearances wouldn't be an issue. Instead they'd just say "yes, we are having an affair, i love him and I'm going to go be with him". There would be no reason to be angry or fear losing their job or anything because in their mind...it'd be OK and acceptable. Since she knows it's NOT acceptable...it makes her angry to have it publicized.

That does make me a little more confident in what I have done. She is absolutely furious. Her friends - upset. Her family - upset. She knows its wrong. I just get a little upset myself with her parents almost "aiding" her damage control.

I have been staying in contact with her slightly younger brother (who unfortunately had to find out from deployment about this all, he was very upset). He told me he is talking to her tonight. I do believe I have activated all the best players to let my wife know that its not just me that thinks this is a horrible idea - its everyone!. Except her coworkers of course, who just like the world and could care less about marriage.

I have voiced to SexyMammaBear that I struggle with the very graphic images - I feel like I am constantly praying them out of my mind. She is the only woman I have ever "been" with. I am young and I am a man (enough said). She is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, and I just struggle fighting off the perversity of him & her. Any advice as to combat this? SMB gave me some good advice naturally, but I thought I would ask this group as well.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[
That does make me a little more confident in what I have done. She is absolutely furious. Her friends - upset. Her family - upset. She knows its wrong. I just get a little upset myself with her parents almost "aiding" her damage control.

The more furious, the more effective your exposure. Fury is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. We are HAPPY when we hear that a WS is "furious" over exposure because we know it was effective. Your marriage can survive anger over exposure, it can't survive an affair.

Quote
I have been staying in contact with her slightly younger brother (who unfortunately had to find out from deployment about this all, he was very upset). He told me he is talking to her tonight. I do believe I have activated all the best players to let my wife know that its not just me that thinks this is a horrible idea - its everyone!. Except her coworkers of course, who just like the world and could care less about marriage.

Great job on reaching out to her brother!

Quote
I have voiced to SexyMammaBear that I struggle with the very graphic images - I feel like I am constantly praying them out of my mind. She is the only woman I have ever "been" with. I am young and I am a man (enough said). She is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, and I just struggle fighting off the perversity of him & her. Any advice as to combat this? SMB gave me some good advice naturally, but I thought I would ask this group as well.

SMB is your best source of information. She not only knows this program inside and out, but she has fully recovered her marriage. I have the highest regard for SMB and TST.

The images go away with time.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[quote=MrWondering] She is the only woman I have ever "been" with


Prior to now (and assuming she's sleeping with him...which is usually the case but not an absolute certainty), are you the only man she was ever with????

I ask that as a way of envisioning coping with this situation should you choose to recover someday. My wife's affair was with someone she dated in high school and a little in college. She was 28 when we married and I had no notions she was a virgin and I wasn't even close to being one either. In time (it's been over a decade now since the affair) I just kind of put the affair sex into the same category as the sex she (and I both) had prior to us getting married and didn't concern myself with dwelling on it or making myself resentful about it. She was with OM before I even met her and I never thought about so why should I think about this. It's not like I saw them together. It's not something we can ever undo. My wife regrets it. I regret it but dwelling on it doesn't accomplish anything. Further, I can also see how the sexual immorality of MY youth played a part in all my choices leading up to my marriage and my wife's affair. I can see how, in part, my wife's infidelity was a consequence of my prior sinful sexual immorality. I wasn't better than her...in the sexual purity sense. We were equally human and in need of repentance.

Conversely, I had another friend here on MB who married his wife when they were both virgins and his wife continued to have sex with both him and the OM during the affair. Unlike me, he was sexually pure and just couldn't stop thinking about and resenting the affair sex. He couldn't block out the thoughts of the sex she had with OM. He had no such compartment of "the sexually immoral things both my wife and I did before we were married" box to put the affair thoughts/memories into which caused him immense pain and suffering for years in recovery. As a Christian he tried fully to forgive "as far from the east to the west" but the wound kept reopening. It was the old comparison of hammering nails into the wooden fence....you can remove the nails but the holes remain. It was easy for me because both my wife and I already had a lot of holes in our fences...the virgin couple, not so much which made the new gaping holes much more difficult to deal with.

Another couple from here from Australia were virgins too, but the betrayed husband didn't seem to have anywhere near the struggles of the guy I mentioned above forgiving, wiping the slate clean and moving on with a MB marriage of extra-ordinary care. A big difference between the two stories might be the level of regret, remorse and repentance offered by their former wayward wives (I don't know their hearts - just my feeling on the subject of their repentance and lack thereof). If someone totals you car and just bondo's and duct tapes it back together, it's just never going to be drive right or be appreciated fully again; whereas, if they bring you home a new better car and go above beyond to make it up to you....you can move on much more easily putting the whole episode behind you. We can't tell you how your wife is going to be. I sometimes read on wayward forums (yes- the internet has something for everyone) where the supposedly former wayward wives are just cruel, abusive, substance abusing entitled unrepentant monsters blaming their betrayed husbands for every miserable self-inflicted problems in their lives. You are young and you don't have children - you should run away from your wife using your legitimate biblical out if she remains unrepentant. I also sometimes read on divorced betrayed forums and you'd think becoming a worthy wholly repentant former wayward wife is as likely as seeing a unicorn or Bigfoot. I don't know about you but my wife is the real deal and you certainly can see HPB is the real deal so it is possible but you'll never know what God and your wife are capable until you try, pray and until you get the chance.

I'm not selling you false hope. These are issues you are going to have to one day weigh if and when you get a shot at recovery. I know you FEEL right now that you've got to get her back and you can't envision a life without her; but, in time, you may realize that a life with her could be a huge mistake for you (and her). Can you overcome the thoughts/memories of her with another man? Can you continue on in a marriage with her....having children and facing those challenges without being resentful? Can you continue on in a marriage with her NOT wanting to even the score (having been a virgin, having a revenge affair and sex with just one other person might be compelling draw for you that if you choose to stay married you'll need to be ever diligent to protect against - I mean, can't you just envision satin whispering in your ear - "you deserve to have sex with another person too....look at that drunk co-worker...here is you chance to even the score...you forgave her, it's her turn to forgive you...you are entitled to it")?????

Things to ponder.

Godspeed.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by MrWondering
[nother couple from here from Australia were virgins too, but the betrayed husband didn't seem to have anywhere near the struggles of the guy I mentioned above forgiving, wiping the slate clean and moving on with a MB marriage of extra-ordinary care.

I have a personal theory about that. The guy who didn't struggle handled the situation very differently. First off, he exposed the affair wide and far, even to his children. I think that very much contributed to her repentant attitude.

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery."

Secondly, they were very proactive in working the program and did create a romantic, passionate marriage afterwards. Like Harley always says, when one is happy in the present, their minds don't tend to go to the past. We have seen over and over again that couples who don't create a great marriage afterwards tend to be resentful.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by MrWondering
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[quote=MrWondering] She is the only woman I have ever "been" with


Prior to now (and assuming she's sleeping with him...which is usually the case but not an absolute certainty), are you the only man she was ever with????

She is 100% sleeping with him, she told me. Yes, she has only "been" with me until now. We had sex before marriage, but we were each others only sexual partner. Mr. Wondering, you have left me with some interesting thoughts to consider.

I do believe I can get over it. I do believe that time will heal the wounds, but as you said, only if she does eventually recognize the pain I've endured. If she is one of the unresentful ones, blaming me at every turn for the affair, etc. then maybe I will just have to accept that this is beyond repair.

I know my wife. This affair was bred out of an immense amount of temptation at her workplace (happy hours, "spouseless" corporate trips, etc) to commit the affair PLUS me not being a spiritual leader to help her fight those battles at work. She is a good person, shes just in a "fog" as you've all mentioned so many times. It may be too much to overcome - but I want to be the one that decides.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[
I know my wife. This affair was bred out of an immense amount of temptation at her workplace (happy hours, "spouseless" corporate trips, etc) to commit the affair PLUS me not being a spiritual leader to help her fight those battles at work. She is a good person, shes just in a "fog" as you've all mentioned so many times. It may be too much to overcome - but I want to be the one that decides.

WC, if you do reconcile, she will need to get a job in an atmosphere that is not so detrimental to marriage. I can't even imagine what industry she is in, because my experience in corporate America is nothing like you describe.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
WC, if you do reconcile, she will need to get a job in an atmosphere that is not so detrimental to marriage. I can't even imagine what industry she is in, because my experience in corporate America is nothing like you describe.

Its funny really. She is absolutely determined that she cannot do anything else in her life except this job - which she is really good at. However, her dad is a "freelance entrepreneur" and she could definitely start a business and enjoy that. The fact is, she is so brilliant should could really do anything she wants.

Melody, we always joked about started a company together - but she always got scared of the money. I know that being business owners together could introduce new stresses on the marriage, but at least it would somewhat solve the atmosphere problem, and help affair proof the marriage (I think, if I am the one flirting with her at work, maybe no one else has to - just a thought). OUR dream a year ago was to open an athletic training facility and co-own it...

My brother works for the same company in a different city just 30 minutes away and said: "If it was common knowledge what happened on those corporate training events, no one in our region would have jobs." So, that is the company my wife thinks she cannot live without. Probably because its so tempting, and currently its fulfilling her. But its worldly and dangerous. I vowed to protect her from such things, I fell short, but I am not done fighting for her.

Re-reading this I recognize it did not have much structure. Sorry to just babble. I like being able to talk to people about it. You guys are saving my life. Thanks so much
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[My brother works for the same company in a different city just 30 minutes away and said: "If it was common knowledge what happened on those corporate training events, no one in our region would have jobs." So, that is the company my wife thinks she cannot live without. Probably because its so tempting, and currently its fulfilling her. But its worldly and dangerous. I vowed to protect her from such things, I fell short, but I am not done fighting for her.

Well, you did not fall short. She clearly chose to insert herself into a destructive sitution. She decided to play chicken with her marriage and got hit by a car. If she doesn't get out that career, she will get hit again. I am really surprised that this kind of behavior goes on in a corporation.

I have spent my career at 2 Fortune 500 companies and our corporate events are nothing like that. Our corporate culture is very, very anti affair. People who do have affairs are fired or "managed" out because they can't ever be trusted. We view them as loose cannons and walking legal liabilities.

Do you know that spouses have sued companies for workplace affairs? And won! You really should look into that. You might have a course of action against this company.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/05/15 11:57 PM
Husband whose wife had affair with co-worker can sue employer

Alienation of Affection & Employer Liability
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 01:30 AM

Melody, that first link requires a login. Is that true? Can I sue my ex-wife's employer? They were alerted to the affair and did nothing as far as I know. I've been told they were called in front of HR, but no one at the company talked to me, so I assume I was slandered and accused of all sorts of things. Both of them still work at the company.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 01:38 AM
That's weird, I didn't have to log in to read it. Try this link: http://www.shrm.org/legalissues/stateandlocalresources/pages/cms_019341.aspx
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
That's weird, I didn't have to log in to read it. Try this link: http://www.shrm.org/legalissues/stateandlocalresources/pages/cms_019341.aspx
This one requires a login for me, too (as well as the first one WC highlighted).
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 01:49 AM
That one asks me to log in, too. I'm in TN where there are no AoA laws. Was the legal grounds AoA? I'm interested in suing the company if I can. They were jerks and just basically acted like I was crazy despite having solid proof, even that they were conducting the affair on the company's time.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 01:50 AM
Sorry for the hijack, WC.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:07 AM
darn, same thing!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:22 AM
Don't sweat the hijack. I hope you get something figured out.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 01:07 PM
Melody, by the way, I may be interested in AoA if this does go "south." Do not get me wrong, there are people at her company that are great family oriented people... just there are some bad eggs, which naturally are the most thrilling. I talked to one of her coworkers during the exposure and he said, "She is not breaking any company rules by dating outside the office, it just cannot be within the office." I wanted to reach through the phone and punch this guy - she is 'dating' shes having an AFFAIR you idiot.

Its so discouraging that my awesome wife got swallowed up by this culture through her workplace, and like an idiot I just stood by and watched, assuming everything was OK.

I guess now is as good a time as any to give you all some back story on my childhood and parents, as it may help you advice me moving forward in marriage.
I was raised in a house where love was assumed, never spoke. I did chores because it was my obligation as a son. I was punished for disrespect, but never rewarded for doing good things - after all, it was my obligation as a son. I told my mother that I loved her often, and she told me. But where I drew most of my development was from my father. Growing up, the respect for him was very high - so high that if I failed in any way I felt as if I let him down ( I was usually right, he would tell me). My parents were/are awesome. Everything I am today is because of the strong respect structure I had at home. I have only ever told my dad I loved him one time (prior to this affair) and that was in a letter I wrote him and hand delivered on the morning of my Wedding.

MY dad and I spoke on exposure day - which even at almost 25 y/o I was afraid that this was an instance where I had compromised his pride with my problems. He said he was proud to have raised a son that values marriage so deeply in a world that treats it like a "date." He said I am a stronger man than him for wanting this to work out despite the affair. He said he knew that I would always be a son who valued commitments, because I was raised different than the world.

I guess somethings I am trying to point out is -
1) My dad and I are closer now than ever from this affair.
2) I am too much like my dad, and my wife is too little like my mom.
3) How to deal with this "assumed love" family life that I have had so deeply ingrained to my life?

Long winded... but hey - its a long fight right?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I guess somethings I am trying to point out is -
1) My dad and I are closer now than ever from this affair.
2) I am too much like my dad, and my wife is too little like my mom.
3) How to deal with this "assumed love" family life that I have had so deeply ingrained to my life?

WC, I am glad this has brought you closer to your father, but i am confused about what you are asking and what your childhood has to do with it. Can you summarize your question in one sentence?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:13 PM
I guess I am used to the structure of everyone in the home just knowing they are loved, even if its not verbally stated - that clearly does not work with my wife.

Anyone ever come into contact with that kind of issue? I am reading LoveBusters and its shining light on it tremendously.

I guess it would be helpful to hear some people's habits that help them combat this... Like "wake up every morning and ask your wife about her plans" etc.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I guess I am used to the structure of everyone in the home just knowing they are loved, even if its not verbally stated - that clearly does not work with my wife.

Then you start expressing your love to your wife openly. IF she wants to be told you love her several times a day, then that is what you do.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:22 PM
I have also been thinking one thing that disables me from showing my wife the appropriate affection is our overall personalities - she's really abstract and I am super "not."

I know this is common based on the resources I've read. But I work in a Lab (hense Chemist) I love checklists. I like actionable things. I feel like if some of you successful marriages could maybe just point out some everyday things you do -maybe I could derieve a list. I want to love my wife properly - I want to learn things.

A list can also be made into habits...

Just thoughts
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:32 PM
I am sorry if this post is getting off topic - I have been told by SMB and HPB that during this time of my wife's "defogging" I am supposed to work on myself and keep PLAN A priority one.

That is why I am posting questions about bettering myself as a husband! Let me know if I need to start a new post somewhere though.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I have also been thinking one thing that disables me from showing my wife the appropriate affection is our overall personalities - she's really abstract and I am super "not."

I know this is common based on the resources I've read. But I work in a Lab (hense Chemist) I love checklists. I like actionable things. I feel like if some of you successful marriages could maybe just point out some everyday things you do -maybe I could derieve a list. I want to love my wife properly - I want to learn things.

A list can also be made into habits...

Just thoughts

The best guide, of course, is your wife, but my H found this article on affection very helpful:

meeting the need for affection

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I am sorry if this post is getting off topic - I have been told by SMB and HPB that during this time of my wife's "defogging" I am supposed to work on myself and keep PLAN A priority one.

That is why I am posting questions about bettering myself as a husband! Let me know if I need to start a new post somewhere though.

That is great advice! You should continue to post on this thread so people know your story.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/06/15 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The best guide, of course, is your wife, but my H found this article on affection very helpful:

meeting the need for affection

This article is exactly the kind of material I was looking for! If anyone has other resources similar I would love to read them. That is a checklist that I can follow. I would like doing that as well.

Its not like I wanted to fail at marriage, but who teaches you about marriage?? No one.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 01:30 PM
So she is trickling money out of our joint savings AND I noticed this week that her weekly direct deposit from work did not cash in any of our joint accounts... I know I'm in Plan A, should I proceed with making my direct deposits into our joint accounts - like nothing changes?

She is still making bill payments - probably doesn't want to crush her credit. I think following her lead would be very "non-plan A" (draining our savings and stop my direct deposit)

What should I do here?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 01:56 PM
Additional information for the group. We bought a fixer uper as our first home. ONE PROBLEM - I kind of stopped fixing after a few months once the house was livable. Because I do not have a clue as to what i am doing. Since she has moved out I have proceeded with a lot of home repairs which is primarily where my money is going at the moment.

She has voiced that she hates the house and it is one of the reasons she is where she is now.

I have not spoke to her since just before her flight to see the OM last Wednesday...(another side note)
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 05:40 PM
Plan A doesn't mean commit financial suicide. Move the money.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
So she is trickling money out of our joint savings AND I noticed this week that her weekly direct deposit from work did not cash in any of our joint accounts... I know I'm in Plan A, should I proceed with making my direct deposits into our joint accounts - like nothing changes?

She is still making bill payments - probably doesn't want to crush her credit. I think following her lead would be very "non-plan A" (draining our savings and stop my direct deposit)

What should I do here?

Don't let her ruin you financially. You need to take steps to protect yourself financially. If she has access to your money, she will likely wipe you out.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 05:42 PM
Also, put the last bank statement from before the affair and every other statement after in a safe deposit. Do the same for 401k and credit card records. You may need them in the future.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 07:25 PM
Melody - I noticed in Exposure 101 you have the aftermath section...

How long until that should take place? Do I wait for her to come to me? Do I actively go talk to her? Can I write the demands and my position on the marriage moving forward (guidelines, wanting it to work, program for recovery etc) in a letter and deliver it to her?

Its only been about 10 days since Exposure Day.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Melody - I noticed in Exposure 101 you have the aftermath section...

How long until that should take place? Do I wait for her to come to me? Do I actively go talk to her? Can I write the demands and my position on the marriage moving forward (guidelines, wanting it to work, program for recovery etc) in a letter and deliver it to her?

Its only been about 10 days since Exposure Day.

nonono, that doesn't apply to your situation because she has no interest in staying married at this point. All you should do at this point is be as pleasant as possible and occasionally tell her how much the affair hurts you.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/07/15 07:33 PM
Ah I see. Ok well I'm getting antsy... I feel like I'm not doing anything.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/08/15 01:20 AM
I just got off the phone with HerPapaBear - he said I should look into a thread on "reverse babble"

Anyone have anything like that handy? Otherwise when I get more time tonight I will maybe search through the notable posts or something.

I had an interaction with my wife tonight in person. Here is a summary:
After church, the pastor challenged us to take a card with things that we were going to change about ourselves in regards to the sermon (it wasn't marriage related) and give it to someone that would keep you accountable. I felt like my mother-in-law was a good candidate based on our history so I went over there and my wife was stopping by as well. I had some small talk about the card with her mom and she (wife) just kind of ignored me at first. I mentioned to her mother I was working around the house and my wife interjected at that point.
"Make sure you don't spend too much money. Just get it done cheap so we can sale it quick."
I replied with "All the money I spend is in plain sight on our joint account transactions."

She quickly went defensive saying "Well I haven't been moving money around!" (Which was weird for her to say and a blatant lie, probably to cover a lie up to her mom). She changed it the subject quickly to "its not like you are consulting me with any of these purchases."

*I have so far only bought electrical outlets and light fixtures (~$120).

I closed the conversation by leaving saying "I love you both, I did not come here to fight. Here's my card "mother-in-law", hope you two have a good evening."

The last thing I did was send my wife a text that only said "you looked cute tonight."

Good plan A? Any advice handling it differently next time?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 11/08/15 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I just got off the phone with HerPapaBear - he said I should look into a thread on "reverse babble"

Anyone have anything like that handy? Otherwise when I get more time tonight I will maybe search through the notable posts or something.
"Reverse babble" is just silly and has nothing to do with Marriage Builders. It is a way of talking nonsense back at a WS, which does nothing to help Plan A and simply serves to inflame a delicate situation. A BS needs to be calm in the face of the nasty things a WS might spew. He does not need to mock her, and irritate her further.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 11/08/15 01:51 AM
Instead of worrying about "reverse babble" listen to these clips on Plan A.
Radio Clip on Plan A
Segment #2
Segment #3

Tell us what you think.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/08/15 02:24 AM
Sure - he did mention that it would be an interesting read not necessarily applicable. Those podcasts were great thank you.

Any one see any flaws in the interaction with my WS tonight?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/09/15 01:16 AM
I feel like I took steps back today in my attitude. I am back to depressed - even though my medications. I blame it on seeing her last night for the first time in a long time - and she was pretty sharp at me.

Her parents and I were very close, interacting almost everyday - and now we do not communicate at all.

I know all I can do is wait, but just am getting down today. Came on here to vent...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/09/15 01:44 AM
Sorry you are having a bad day, WC. frown
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/09/15 02:44 AM
I listened to a podcast from.DR Harley and he said the death of a child needs to be handled extremely carefully... I really screwed up there. smirk I turned inward and she needed to talk to someone and got personal about it with other people.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/09/15 02:44 AM
That is supposed to be a : / face
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/09/15 07:02 PM
She was home over lunch - I saw her on our doggy camera. She made a lot of racket and it got me worried that the house was destroyed. But I listened just a little longer and she was playing with the dogs and was cheery. Said something about "I wish I could see you guys more" and "I miss you guys" (to the dogs).

I went home to confirm the house was not destroyed - and it wasn't. Almost nothing I could notice of her things were missing. I can't tell if maybe she was playing mind games with me. She has always turned off the doggy camera. Two things could have happened:
1) she actually forgot to turn it off
2) she wanted to make a bunch of racket and try to get in my head.

Either way - I am a little encouraged that nothing substantial was missing and most of all - nothing in the house was broken.

Last encouraging point.. She was not on the phone with OM. Now that doesn't mean they are done, but who knows maybe they aren't actually inseparable.

She made a deposit into out checking account today. It looked to be about half of her Coaching money she gets every two weeks. So at least she's putting money back in to our accounts.

I still feel pretty grim about the situation, but obviously today could be a lot worse. I am supposed to meet her dad tonight to talk about some basement projects that he started with me - so I'll probably update everyone on that conversation (remember me and him are not on excellent terms in his eyes).

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/10/15 02:32 AM
Pretty good talk with her dad - but at the same time pretty crummy. He said I'm no longer welcome at his home because my wife said she will never come over if there is a chance I could show up unannounced. That hurt.

I did get a chance to defend the exposure to her boss. I said:
"Had it been a friend from college, high school or somewhere else then her boss would not have needed involved. But it was a person from her company. I had to tell her boss."

So that felt good to say. Time will tell and the dust needs to settle... I just wish I could go to bed and it be like June '16 already...
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 11/10/15 04:59 AM
Waywards make all kinds of empty manipulative threats and her parents fall for it. Afterall...she appears to be abandoning you...so the logic goes that she'll abandon them too, if they don't toe the line.

People in this feel good, whatever makes you happy society have such trouble standing up to evil. However, her threat is illogical and completely wayward. She is already "lost" to them (and everyone) if she continues down this path so there is no point in appeasing her childish demands.

My wife actually just reminded me tonight that she said something similar to her mother and her mother just said "that's just a risk I'll have to take". Which is what your FIL coulda/shoulda replied to her. Unfortunately, his lack of fortitude is all too common and I understand it (doesn't mean he should need to apologize for it later on). I mean come on...his daughter is telling him and his wife who they can and can not invite into their home??? Who is the parent here???

I'd have you find ways to stop by anyway....even if it's just to take a picture and post it on facebook as though her parents aren't abiding by her request. It's not like FIL is going to tell her that he told you why you aren't welcome. Your wife HOPED he'd simply say "you aren't welcome" as though her parents were completely on her side versus telling you that you aren't welcome because she doesn't want to run into you. Not this week or the next but sometime down the road a picture posted somewhere giving a fairly good indication or implication that you were at their house might stir things up a little.

Also...even though you aren't welcome at their house....you could meet them out for a bite to eat (and snap a picture).

Also...this may all feel like you are pushing the affair couple together. Like it's them against the world. It's true. It's actually isolating them from everyone they hoped would support them and making the two of them rely solely on each other to get all their needs met. The relationship was never real anymore. It's was stolen secret moments. Now the relationship built upon a faulty foundation of lies and deceit has to be strong to continue on. Neither of these two have the coping and relationships skills to handle being strong when the going gets tough so the relationship disintegrates from the inside. Or not. We can't predict whether the fog will clear in time and you'll still be around with enough care then to bother trying to recover.

Godspeed.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/10/15 02:55 PM
I just do not understand my FIL's logic - but the person that understands it the least is my own dad. He said he'd have his "foot so far up my a** that I wouldn't be able to move unless it was towards fixing my marriage."

Anyways, with the holidays coming up what should I be prepared for? Is it better for her to be surrounded by her family (who I've exposed to) or to abandon them all together and be alone? A lot of people on my side of the family are going to find out that do not already know... I just think its going to be cluster of chaos.

Mr. Wondering - her dad is also convinced that she is going to move away to South Carolina - which could happen as you have explained. IT may actually be beneficial (they could disintegrate) - but it could also be the end (they could be for real). I have told myself to hang on for 1 to 2 years for her... so that is a timeline to keep myself sane.

I have not got any divorce papers yet... I set up a PO Box today to get all my mail before she does. I want my hands on the mail before she gets it. I felt like that was a safe way to eliminate some of the strangle hold she has on the situation also.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/10/15 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I just do not understand my FIL's logic - but the person that understands it the least is my own dad. He said he'd have his "foot so far up my a** that I wouldn't be able to move unless it was towards fixing my marriage."

This is how I would react too. AGree very much with your dad. In fact, MrsW's [her husband, MrW, is posting to you] own mother was instrumental in running off her OM. Most caring parents don't sit by and do nothing while their child engages in destructive behavior.

Your FIL is being unwise, because if your marriage is saved, his daughter will remember his uncaring attitude when her fog wears off. And since he has alienated you by not supporting the marriage, he will be alienated from you both. He may come to rue the day he supported the affair and not the marriage.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/10/15 04:34 PM
Well - while I am mad at him now. He does not believe he is actually "supporting the affair." So hopefully when this all blows over and God willing the marriage is saved - he does not get alienated by my wife and I. I do believe he is honestly trying to end the affair, but he lacks the strength to pull the trigger - which to be honest, I needed to do as her husband anyways.

My hope is one day he looks back and just tells me, "WC I am sorry for how my wife and I behaved towards you, you are certainly the best man for our daughter."

One can only hope though.

I just need to find a niche or hobby to occupy my time - because, Like everyone has stated - this is going to be a long battle.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/10/15 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Well - while I am mad at him now. He does not believe he is actually "supporting the affair." So hopefully when this all blows over and God willing the marriage is saved - he does not get alienated by my wife and I. I do believe he is honestly trying to end the affair, but he lacks the strength to pull the trigger - which to be honest, I needed to do as her husband anyways.

He has not been a supporter of your marriage, though. And he well knows this. Sitting by doing nothing essentially is supporting the affair at the expense of the marriage. His actions alienate him from your marriage. Parents who don't support the marriage tend to be a great source of pain and resentment once the affair is over. I hope he does come to see the destructiveness of his behavior.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/10/15 05:52 PM
I was explaining to SexyMammaBear earlier today that I thought after I exposed I was going to get some support - instead I felt like I lost support.

I can only hope people did not abandon the thought of talking to my wife. Or they were convinced that I am a lunatic and they all sided with her. I am just anxious about the holiday season... my birthday, thanksgiving, her birthday and Christmas all coming up. We have also always referred to Jan.1, 2009 as the date her and I became "official."

I just do not know how hard its going to be...My poor Mom said she got my wife's presents for her already, then this affair happened.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/11/15 04:07 PM
So today my Mom is getting blown up by friends on my side saying "Why is your son's wife's Facebook showing single" or "why did your son's wife take all her pictures with your son down"

I told her to have them all ask her themselves on Facebook. I told my Mom that she needs to be uncomfortable. Surely she won't block everyone?

I know its pretty standard wayward behavior - but if she wants to try to go on a power trip over Facebook (which she must have started using way more often then she used to), then I say let her deal with that can of worms herself. Like what did she expect? People weren't going to ask about me and just go along with it?

I have been telling people just to confront her outright - any other advice?

Been dealing with some real anger lately (SMB and HPB said that is healthy and normal). I am mad especially at my In-Laws. Don't they realize that if she can leave me and keep her family that is exactly what she wants?! She needs to lose her family and lose me OR gain me and gain her family...no in between. Obviously I am an angry at OM - I asked my brother if he can get me the HR contact for his company - which he said he does not exactly know how to get, but he'd look for me. I want to send something to HR about the OM, just in case he is not feeling any pressure at his work five states away...

Sorry I am all over this morning.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/11/15 05:06 PM
In-laws typically pay lip service to the marriage, but when push comes to shove, they throw you under the bus. My in-laws went so far as to apologize to me for their daughter's despicable behavior, but when they saw that the divorce was going to go through, they dropped me like a hot potato. Anyway, my point is don't let it make you resentful. This is typical. Don't expect their support and you won't be disappointed.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/11/15 06:34 PM
She has been deleting tons of posts apparently - which is making people call me more. Well at least this damage control is probably annoying her...

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/11/15 11:31 PM
In light of recent events I just made my status on Facebook this (with the help of SMB)
I have been inundated with calls and texts today since my wife "wife" changed her FB marital status yesterday. There is no way I can respond to everyone's messages, and since "wife" as already put it out there on FB, I am posting here to explain. I want to assure everyone that we are still VERY MUCH MARRIED, but we need your prayers. "Wife" is involved in an extra-marital affair. I am very worried about her, considering the destructive choices she is currently making. This is the most painful experience of my life, but I know that we can overcome this once she ends her affair. I love my wife very much and am willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our marriage. I am hopeful that she will end her affair and re-commit to our vows as husband and wife. I appreciate your support for our marriage.

Been getting a lot of support messages. I think that should keep me ahead of her lies. She just kinda nuclear exposure'd herself I guess.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 12:42 AM
I love it! Great job.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 01:53 AM
Melody - you'll be happy to hear I finally tracked down corporate HR and told her about my WS and OM. That plus this Facebook thing is probably the conclusion of exposure phase... Now I really need to stay dark for awhile.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Melody - you'll be happy to hear I finally tracked down corporate HR and told her about my WS and OM. That plus this Facebook thing is probably the conclusion of exposure phase... Now I really need to stay dark for awhile.

Good job!! Love your facebook exposure. Any luck on getting ahold of his parents?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 01:57 AM
Negative... frown
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 02:25 AM
Go here and put in the OM's name and see if you find his parents: peoplefinder.com
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 11:56 AM
Woke up this morning and there was a charge for a local divorce lawyer on our credit card.

Looks like she has got that train rolling. I am in desperate need of advice regarding the legality of the situation.

If I ignore the paperwork - is that a good thing or not?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 12:07 PM
Here is all I've found in OHio so far.

What are the grounds for divorce in Ohio?

Under Section 3105.01 of the Ohio Revised Code, the Court of Common Pleas may grant divorces for the following causes:

Either party had a husband or wife living at the time of the marriage from which the divorce is sought
Willful absence of the adverse party for one year
Adultery
Extreme cruelty
Fraudulent contract
Any gross neglect of duty
Habitual drunkenness
Imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal correctional institution at the time of filing the complaint
Procurement of a divorce outside of the State of Ohio, by husband or wife, by virtue of which the party who procured it is released from the obligations of the marriage, while those obligations remain binding upon the other party
On the application of either party, when husband and wife have, without interruption for one year, lived separate and apart without cohabitation
Incompatibility, unless denied by either party

So clearly she is going to try "Incompatibility" but all I have to do is not agree to it?

Can she divorce on grounds against herself? It may extremely easy for her to provide evidence that adultery has occurred.... Duh.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 12:21 PM
You need to consult an attorney. Like yesterday. Protect yourself. Let your attorney know that you do not want the divorce, but get legal advice immediately.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 01:06 PM
Nmwb77 I am working on it today.

I know WS behavior is hard to predict, but a lot of what I read was the talk of a divorce lawyer may just be talk... But now I know it is at least somewhat real. I can't necessarily afford to get a lawyer on a whim - but now I know its for real.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 02:24 PM
Have you talked to Dr. Harley? I encourage you to get in touch with him. Talking to Dr. Harley gave me the courage to do what I needed to do. In my case, Dr. Harley sensed that my ex felt guilty, and he told me to go along with the divorce. I'd say I got 2/3 of everything and she got 1/3, because she agreed to my terms (presumably out of a sense of guilt). The idea was that divorce did not mean we couldn't reconcile, but if we did divorce and I got 2/3, then when she came back at least we'd still have the 2/3, because she'll blow through everything she has while she's in the fog. In my case, I'm no longer interested in reconciliation, so I'm doing well. The divorce did not ruin me financially because I listened to Dr. Harley.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 02:32 PM
It might be kind of a dumb question - but where can I email / talk to him? I just assumed he is very busy and I would take my advice here.

To be honest, this divorce could not even "ruin me financially" because I just do not have that many assets. But I understand your reasoning.

I have a consultation scheduled with a lawyer tomorrow per your advice nmwb77.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
It might be kind of a dumb question - but where can I email / talk to him? I just assumed he is very busy and I would take my advice here.

To be honest, this divorce could not even "ruin me financially" because I just do not have that many assets. But I understand your reasoning.

I have a consultation scheduled with a lawyer tomorrow per your advice nmwb77.

WC, you can email Dr Harley at his radio show and he will answer your questions for free. Instructions are here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

He has been recommending exactly what nmwb77 just recommended, to go along with the divorce while the WS is in the affair, because you will get much more favorable terms.

That being said, he will suggest that you consider moving on because this is such a young marriage. You don't have any kids and not much of a history and sometimes it is better to cut your losses. Can you imagine going through this when you have 2 little kids? And I realize you don't want to do that but it is something to consider.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
It might be kind of a dumb question - but where can I email / talk to him? I just assumed he is very busy and I would take my advice here.

To be honest, this divorce could not even "ruin me financially" because I just do not have that many assets. But I understand your reasoning.

I have a consultation scheduled with a lawyer tomorrow per your advice nmwb77.

Good. It's not necessarily assets. Any time you have to go in front of a judge, plan on being there for six hours while you wait for the judge to get to your case. Multiply that by $250+ an hour, and you can see that the tab can run up very quickly. The easiest thing to do is have your lawyer draw up a proposal for splitting the assets. If she refuses it, ask for her proposal. You don't want to get into discovery and all that time consuming stuff (unless she's hiding assets).

The thing is, she will get the divorce if that's what she wants. You can't stop it. Ohio has no-fault divorce, so she'll file for divorce on no-fault grounds "or in the alternative" improper marital behavior or whatever. The judge will grant the divorce even if you object. You can drag it out with discovery and stalling tactics, but eventually she will get it.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 03:23 PM
Oh, and in my case, I said she should pay all court costs since she was the one who wanted the divorce. She agreed and paid all those costs as well (honestly, I have no idea how much that cost, probably a couple hundred). Since she filed, I didn't even have to go to court. So I saved the money for that too, because my lawyer did not need to go, either.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
That being said, he will suggest that you consider moving on because this is such a young marriage. You don't have any kids and not much of a history and sometimes it is better to cut your losses. Can you imagine going through this when you have 2 little kids? And I realize you don't want to do that but it is something to consider.

I was contemplating posting this to you but hesitated bc I see that you are passionate about saving your marriage, but there are some things I would like you to consider...

*Feelings CHANGE. Many betrayed spouses are desparate to save the marriage while the WS is in the throes of the affair. It is not until later that the anger, resentment and doubt creeps in. That is the NORM. You will not always feel so eager to save this marriage, even if your WW was to come back to you with open arms tomorrow - trust me.

*It is concerning when a person has an affair this early in the M. It's more understandable when a person starts to associate home and marriage with responsibility, kids, stress boredom after years of marriage - while a coworker starts to look fun, easy, stress free etc...an escape from reality. Your W most likely has some huge boundary issues - please understand this will be HARD WORK for her to change.

*Recovery itself HARD work. Divorcing at this point would probably be much less painful for you than recovery.

*Having a long marital history and kids works in both ways - it is motiviation for the WS to make the changes necessary (implement EPs, possibly change jobs, etc) to save the marriage and it is motivation for the BS to stick it out when the resentment kicks in. This is why Dr Harley often tells people in your position to cut their losses.

*You are still very young and quite honestly you seem like a great young man. The dating pool is huge for you at this point. The opportunity for you to meet a great young woman is really really good compared to someone in their 30s and 40s with children.

**Lastly, I see the issue with your in-laws as problematic. The fact that they are enablers is not good in several ways. First of all, that's going to keep your WW foggy. Secondly, that is going to be an awful lot of resentment for you to have to get over should you guys ever get to a point where recovery is possible. My in-laws threw me under the bus and had my ex done what needed in order to get me on board with working on recovery - I really don't know that I would have wanted anything to do with his parents ever again. To this day, I still feel hurt by their actions, maybe moreso than my ex as strange as that sounds.

This is probably going to be very tough to read. At the very least you can come back to read this if doubts about wanting to recover this (which they will) start to creep in.

Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 05:03 PM
WC,

You are doing great. I echo what the others have said about considering and being prepared for a divorce. Have you split your finances yet or does your WW still have access to your bank account? She is very dangerous right now.

Your FIL is probably a weak man who is out of his depth with regards to parenting in this situation. I am guessing he probably doesn't want to take a side or step on her toes. He has no idea what he is doing and he will end up losing both of you unless he gets a backbone. Not much you can do about that but I've seen this happen before up close and personal. Sorry you are dealing with it, I know from experience it is extremely frustrating.

Keep fighting this affair hard. The more decisive and prepared you are the more it will put the ball in your WW's court to decide, and that is a good thing because it will mean less waiting for you. The limbo is probably the hardest part of this whole process, IMO. I'm much happier now that I am OUT of it.

Good to see you are thinking of a timeline already for your Plan A. Stick to it. I am predicting your wife will probably talk a LOT about divorce and not lift a finger to make it happen. That's usually how it goes, so this could get drug out for a while. That's where the timeline helps.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 05:06 PM
Also, if you have a joint credit card with her (since she's already paid for a consult on one, I'm guessing it's joint), I would freeze/close that. Don't put yourself on the hook for any divorce-related expenses that she causes.

She is temporarily insane while she is wayward and she will not be frugal with your money.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
My in-laws threw me under the bus and had my ex done what needed in order to get me on board with working on recovery - I really don't know that I would have wanted anything to do with his parents ever again. To this day, I still feel hurt by their actions, maybe moreso than my ex as strange as that sounds.

I understand this sentiment completely.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
It might be kind of a dumb question - but where can I email / talk to him? I just assumed he is very busy and I would take my advice here.

Oh, you are missing out on a great opportunity - get into listening to the radio show, daily!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 05:36 PM
Wow. Certainly a lot to digest here from you guys. I have a free consultation with a lawyer tomorrow to evaluate my options. I don't care about what I get - if I got 100% of what we own I'd just sell it all anyways and start over... I want to stall and delay as long as possible. I know Ohio has no fault divorce but it takes a substantial time to finish with one party not in agreement. I am not divorcing her until I know without a doubt she is "unsaveable." And I won't know that until the affair ends, if it doesn't end in 1-2 years I will assume its "unsaveable"

Some other friends I have talked to have also said that the divorce process sometimes breaks the fog for a WS. The way divorce attornies handle it just overwhelms the WS with guilt.

Like I said, I am meeting a lawyer tomorrow. She has no grounds to divorce me on in a way that would conclude this quickly.

I was going to say a lot of people have reached out to support my marriage after the Facebook explosion yesterday - but a lot have people have said I should take it down or I "have no chance at saving this marriage."
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 05:45 PM
WC, you do what you feel you need to do. I did Plan A for 1.5 years(including 6 mos. after divorce was final). I exposed the affair far and wide and did everything I could possibly do. I'm divorced, but I have no regrets, because I did everything. I've heard it said that you regret the things you didn't do more than the things you did. I believe it's true, so I went the whole nine yards.

If you feel you want to drag it out, then that's what you should do. It's just money. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. You can always make more money. Just weigh your options and protect yourself.
Posted By: Bellevue Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 05:52 PM
I never exposed. Admitting this, I saw so many marriages on MB restored by exposure.
If I were you, I would not listen to people telling you to take down the posts. That would be like stopping penicillin after taking it a few days just because you're feeling better. Let the medicine work!
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Wow. Certainly a lot to digest here from you guys. I have a free consultation with a lawyer tomorrow to evaluate my options. I don't care about what I get - if I got 100% of what we own I'd just sell it all anyways and start over... I want to stall and delay as long as possible. I know Ohio has no fault divorce but it takes a substantial time to finish with one party not in agreement. I am not divorcing her until I know without a doubt she is "unsaveable." And I won't know that until the affair ends, if it doesn't end in 1-2 years I will assume its "unsaveable"

Some other friends I have talked to have also said that the divorce process sometimes breaks the fog for a WS. The way divorce attornies handle it just overwhelms the WS with guilt.

Like I said, I am meeting a lawyer tomorrow. She has no grounds to divorce me on in a way that would conclude this quickly.

I was going to say a lot of people have reached out to support my marriage after the Facebook explosion yesterday - but a lot have people have said I should take it down or I "have no chance at saving this marriage."

A quick note about the "unsaveable" - that's kind of beside the point. The chances that affair will end and your WW will come back to you are actually pretty good.

However, the chances that she will really affair-proof your M (like I said, I am seeing some red flags, her enabling family being one of them) and that you will be able to withstand the hard work needed in recovery is an entirely different thing.

This is going to be a rollercoaster and you are going to get to the point where you feelings about your situation will change several times in one day. I would echo the advice to write to the radio show and talk to Dr Harley.

Hang in there.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 06:20 PM
If she comes back, and I have the training, plans and strategy and the advice from Dr. Harley and company I think I can restore this marriage. I think we can affair proof the marriage with proper guidelines etc.

If she came back four / five weeks ago after the affair was discovered - and I never knew this site - then yes I would agree destined to fail again.

I have always been someone who is extremely forgiving. IRONICALLY she has not been. This may be a hurdle to overcome where she finds it impossible to ever forgive herself.

I will write to Dr. harley sometime this evening when I can put together a well thought out email.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I was going to say a lot of people have reached out to support my marriage after the Facebook explosion yesterday - but a lot have people have said I should take it down or I "have no chance at saving this marriage."

WC, one of the things you are going to learn around here is that in our western world we have two parallel cultures side by side.

One culture has good marriages. The other culture has exceedingly bad marriages.

Everybody has cultural viewpoints on how marriage should work. But on one side, their view points do not, in fact, work.

You're swimming in a sea of bad marriage culture. Your wife is obviously a part of it; we can tell by her lifestyle. This is also why so many of your friends are telling you stuff like this.

Your friends HPB and SMB - they are part of good marriage culture, and we try to hold up good marriage culture here and get people integrated into it.

60% of marriages will go through at least one affair.

40% of marriages end in divorce.
20% of marriages end in permanent lifelong separation. They are still legally married but they hate each other and live away from each other and die away from each other.
20% of marriages stay legally married but are miserable and hate each other.

Only 20% of marriages stay together and are happy. Only 20% of marriages are successful.

(For what it's worth, these statistics are no different inside of churches or outside of churches. Not sure if that matters to you but that fact is of great interest to many people. Churchgoers and ministers don't know any more about how to succeed at marriage than non-churchgoers and non-ministers.)

Only 20% of the people in our culture have a good marriage. 80% of people know only how to have a terrible marriage. They write scripts for TV shows and movies; they advise friends; they raise children. It propagates. Of the 20% who have successful marriages, many haven't spent a lot of time thinking about what makes it good, and if they say anything about it, it might be akin to the 101 year old who says he is so long lived because he smoked cigarettes every day.

Very very few people have successful marriages and know how to teach how to succeed at marriage.

I got all of the above statistics from Dr. Harley, who has been happily married to Joyce Harley for fifty years as of December 2012. And for several of those decades he has been teaching people how to survive affairs and how to have successful marriages.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/12/15 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
If she comes back, and I have the training, plans and strategy and the advice from Dr. Harley and company I think I can restore this marriage. I think we can affair proof the marriage with proper guidelines etc.

If she came back four / five weeks ago after the affair was discovered - and I never knew this site - then yes I would agree destined to fail again.

There are a couple of reasons why this doesn't make sense - but I think at this point rather than me continuing this conversation with you, your best bet is to talk to Dr Harley.

Quote
I have always been someone who is extremely forgiving. IRONICALLY she has not been. This may be a hurdle to overcome where she finds it impossible to ever forgive herself.
We have had many WS's express extreme remorse and anger with themselves, etc (mine included) and continue marriage wrecking behavior. It's completely irrelevant to whether you can recover the marriage (and this works both ways, a WW can express zero remorse and end up completely on board with MB).

Quote
I will write to Dr. harley sometime this evening when I can put together a well thought out email.
Great! Just want to add that you don't need to write a well thought out email. Just a run down of the stats and summary of where you are now will be enough. You can always follow up with them - they are great like that. I have been on the radio show many times and the time I called asking for help regarding separation was probably the most helpful/reassuring.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/13/15 08:46 PM
My attorney said that if I am smart about it I can postpone the divorce for a maximum of 1 year since she moved out (Oct. 5th?). She will try to file on some grounds but the only appropriate one is "Incompatible"' which I simply disagree to. He said her charge from earlier this week was more than likely a filing fee, so paperwork is on the way.

I just keep telling myself, 1 year is a long time for God to work. 1 year is a long time for her to defog and see the mistakes. 1 year is a long time for me to gather knowledge to make very specific guidelines to insure a successful marriage if we get to recovery. 1 year is a long time for me to change all my faults I had in this marriage up to now. And finally...

1 year is a lot of days of pain incoming. frown

But I am relentless, I will fight for my wife. I believe in what I (you all included!) have done to give my marriage a fighting chance.

I sent Dr. Bill & Joyce an email.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 11/13/15 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I sent Dr. Bill & Joyce an email.

Let us know when you hear back.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 11/13/15 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My attorney said that if I am smart about it I can postpone the divorce for a maximum of 1 year since she moved out (Oct. 5th?). She will try to file on some grounds but the only appropriate one is "Incompatible"' which I simply disagree to. He said her charge from earlier this week was more than likely a filing fee, so paperwork is on the way.

I just keep telling myself, 1 year is a long time for God to work. 1 year is a long time for her to defog and see the mistakes. 1 year is a long time for me to gather knowledge to make very specific guidelines to insure a successful marriage if we get to recovery. 1 year is a long time for me to change all my faults I had in this marriage up to now. And finally...

1 year is a lot of days of pain incoming. frown

But I am relentless, I will fight for my wife. I believe in what I (you all included!) have done to give my marriage a fighting chance.

I sent Dr. Bill & Joyce an email.


I'm an attorney. A tax attorney but I know a little about this stuff too.

"Up to about a year" is a tricky proposition that can get expensive real quick. In order to delay the divorce you can't be seen as the one that is trying to delay it so you try to bog down the case with legal technicalities and lots and lots of discovery. You may get a judge that really move his/her docket along who is very resistant to common delay techniques....he/she will eventually see through your facade and you'll be faced with either settling and signing off on the divorce OR being punished (financially) by the judge. That could be daunting after spending a ton of money on your attorney delaying it much as you could already.

If cost is not the concern...you can run up lots of fees dragging this on and on and making it LOOK like she is the hostile party. Demand to sign medical releases (including any psychologist/counselor she's seen). She'll refuse and you'll file motions to try to get the judge to approve it.

My point is...there is a balance in there somewhere. You hire an attorney that appreciates you aren't delaying in an effort to punish your wife and to use the court system to extract your revenge. You simply hope time will give you a better chance at reconciliation so he/she (your attorney) should delay the case as much as possible while also trying to keep the proceedings civil and relatively cost effective. Your best delay weapons most likely are expensive weapons (motions and court hearings cost huge money)....so the longer those can be put off the better, then you try to settle them last minute and flip to some other delay method.

Finally - like my friend above...a bonus of delaying is often a favorable divorce agreement in situations where the wayward will basically pay anything to get it over with (and not have to stand in a courtroom as the despicable wayward adulterous wife). You can recover your marriage in the same about of time whether you are married or not - so at some point you probably can't be a fool and turn down a very favorable settlement agreement and risk delaying further and getting punished by some judge. In other words, if she's hardcore and won't roll over, you'll actually have an easier time delaying the case but once she waves the white flag...money spent thereafter trying to delay likely just isn't worth the return.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 12:07 AM
I was clear in my intentions to the attorney. He said if that was the case (I am trying to drag it out to give my marriage a chance to get reconciliation) he said he would be really affordable because he really is not doing too much legal work. His exact words were "About four hours of my time." (My guess ~$1000).

I will have to wait and see what the paperwork looks like. If she is asking for a dissolution, I will comically shrug it off. I will certainly keep in mind the favorable terms timing. I never thought about it from the perspective of recovering WHILE divorced... We could get remarried.

I just feel like staying married helps my cause... Because her name she signs everyday is mine, etc. All things that might remind her of what we had.

I don't know. Thanks for the thought provoking insight as always MrW.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 01:14 AM
I changed the locks on the house. I have renovations being done on the basement and don't want her to maliciously mess anything up.

Anyone here against changing the locks?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I changed the locks on the house. I have renovations being done on the basement and don't want her to maliciously mess anything up.

Anyone here against changing the locks?

Not at all!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Not at all!

Ok - my dad said he'll support me in trying to restore my marriage...but he won't support me allowing my things accessible to a blinded psychopath.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 01:30 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Not at all!

Ok - my dad said he'll support me in trying to restore my marriage...but he won't support me allowing my things accessible to a blinded psychopath.

Smart man!
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I was clear in my intentions to the attorney. He said if that was the case (I am trying to drag it out to give my marriage a chance to get reconciliation) he said he would be really affordable because he really is not doing too much legal work. His exact words were "About four hours of my time." (My guess ~$1000).

Sorry but this is laughable. It has been my experience that divorce attorneys will tell you what you want to hear and then basically not follow through after you have given them a retainer. They LOVE to talk/email/conference to the other spouse's atty (for no good reason) and run up your bill.

I am on my THIRD atty and they all came high recommended to me, and they have all been pretty terrible (ML and Mr W can vouch for me).

A one year divorce with a nasty wayward can get VERY expensive. I DOUBT very much that it will cost 1k. Prepare yourself.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by MrWondering
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My attorney said that if I am smart about it I can postpone the divorce for a maximum of 1 year since she moved out (Oct. 5th?). She will try to file on some grounds but the only appropriate one is "Incompatible"' which I simply disagree to. He said her charge from earlier this week was more than likely a filing fee, so paperwork is on the way.

I just keep telling myself, 1 year is a long time for God to work. 1 year is a long time for her to defog and see the mistakes. 1 year is a long time for me to gather knowledge to make very specific guidelines to insure a successful marriage if we get to recovery. 1 year is a long time for me to change all my faults I had in this marriage up to now. And finally...

1 year is a lot of days of pain incoming. frown

But I am relentless, I will fight for my wife. I believe in what I (you all included!) have done to give my marriage a fighting chance.

I sent Dr. Bill & Joyce an email.


I'm an attorney. A tax attorney but I know a little about this stuff too.

"Up to about a year" is a tricky proposition that can get expensive real quick. In order to delay the divorce you can't be seen as the one that is trying to delay it so you try to bog down the case with legal technicalities and lots and lots of discovery. You may get a judge that really move his/her docket along who is very resistant to common delay techniques....he/she will eventually see through your facade and you'll be faced with either settling and signing off on the divorce OR being punished (financially) by the judge. That could be daunting after spending a ton of money on your attorney delaying it much as you could already.

If cost is not the concern...you can run up lots of fees dragging this on and on and making it LOOK like she is the hostile party. Demand to sign medical releases (including any psychologist/counselor she's seen). She'll refuse and you'll file motions to try to get the judge to approve it.

My point is...there is a balance in there somewhere. You hire an attorney that appreciates you aren't delaying in an effort to punish your wife and to use the court system to extract your revenge. You simply hope time will give you a better chance at reconciliation so he/she (your attorney) should delay the case as much as possible while also trying to keep the proceedings civil and relatively cost effective. Your best delay weapons most likely are expensive weapons (motions and court hearings cost huge money)....so the longer those can be put off the better, then you try to settle them last minute and flip to some other delay method.

Finally - like my friend above...a bonus of delaying is often a favorable divorce agreement in situations where the wayward will basically pay anything to get it over with (and not have to stand in a courtroom as the despicable wayward adulterous wife). You can recover your marriage in the same about of time whether you are married or not - so at some point you probably can't be a fool and turn down a very favorable settlement agreement and risk delaying further and getting punished by some judge. In other words, if she's hardcore and won't roll over, you'll actually have an easier time delaying the case but once she waves the white flag...money spent thereafter trying to delay likely just isn't worth the return.

Great post.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 04:35 AM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I was clear in my intentions to the attorney. He said if that was the case (I am trying to drag it out to give my marriage a chance to get reconciliation) he said he would be really affordable because he really is not doing too much legal work. His exact words were "About four hours of my time." (My guess ~$1000).

Sorry but this is laughable. It has been my experience that divorce attorneys will tell you what you want to hear and then basically not follow through after you have given them a retainer. They LOVE to talk/email/conference to the other spouse's atty (for no good reason) and run up your bill.

I am on my THIRD atty and they all came high recommended to me, and they have all been pretty terrible (ML and Mr W can vouch for me).

A one year divorce with a nasty wayward can get VERY expensive. I DOUBT very much that it will cost 1k. Prepare yourself.

Glad I made you laugh. I am sure if you have kids and assets a lawyer is important and expensive... If you need a lawyer to tell you when to sign and when not to sign in sure its cheaper. If he told me he was going to only need four hours and his rate is $250/HR... That's $1000.

All I need is a person to tell me when to sign stuff and when to ignore stuff. I am not pursuing assets... Because all I have is 1/30th of a house, 1/10th of two cars, and two dogs.

I only went to this lawyer to establish a line of communication. I'm not meeting him frequently. In fact I haven't and probably am not going to schedule another visit for awhile. He said to call when I get the paperwork and he will walk me through disagreement with the grounds she's filing on.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Glad I made you laugh.

Huh? I did not say you made me laugh. I said it is laughable that dragging a divorce out for ONE YEAR with a nasty wayward will only cost 1k.

Quote
I am sure if you have kids and assets a lawyer is important and expensive... If you need a lawyer to tell you when to sign and when not to sign in sure its cheaper. If he told me he was going to only need four hours and his rate is $250/HR... That's $1000.

All I need is a person to tell me when to sign stuff and when to ignore stuff. I am not pursuing assets... Because all I have is 1/30th of a house, 1/10th of two cars, and two dogs.

I only went to this lawyer to establish a line of communication. I'm not meeting him frequently. In fact I haven't and probably am not going to schedule another visit for awhile. He said to call when I get the paperwork and he will walk me through disagreement with the grounds she's filing on.

You are missing the point of my post (and Mr W's for that matter) - one of them being that divorce lawyers are SHADY and to proceed with caution regarding any estimate that he gave you.

I have also seen many people here on the forums without children and assets divorcing and it can and probably will get NASTY and costly. And you are talking about dragging it out a year.

Don't be so quick to dismiss our warning. I would have a backup plan in place for how you are going to afford this if it ends up costing you more like 3-5k (or more).
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 03:47 PM
Thanks for the advice SuzieQ I will prepare and budget accordingly.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 04:07 PM
You have more assets than you think, i would guess.
Do you have a 401k, do you have a pension, social security, other tax write-offs, firearms, precious metals, stock options, a judgement in your favor, tax refund, upcoming bonus, inheritance clauses, beneficiary considerations?
On the opposite side, marital debt is also shared, credit cards, loans of all types, tax debt, fees.

The financial side of divorce can be as devastating as the emotional side. Make sure you consider this carefully and to your attorney.
Many people develop gambling habits and suddenly mysteriously lose a bunch at the craps table (wink, wink).
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/14/15 06:24 PM
Its really funny you said that NebDane because I actually got talked into it by a friend to go to the casino when this first started and I lost some dollars. wink

Got my seperate bank account set up today and sent my HR rep my new routing information.

Just trying to remain patient in this all and stay calm... (Advice from HPB)
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/15/15 05:38 PM
If anyone drops in the thread that is battling the same fight I am - a friend of mine just sent me this video, encouraging me to keep fighting for my wife.

Watch if you are interested... It gave me a little extra push today. Hope everyone is having a good day.



Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/15/15 05:38 PM
Sorry if that violates any rules about posting - I didn't think about it until just now.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 02:56 AM
So I just heard from my wife for the first time in a pretty long time via email. Unfortunately it was quite cold and very "business oriented."

So she was talking about our finances. She demanded that I pay for half of several things then also demanded that I find my own phone service as well as insurance on the vehicle I drive.

She cleaned out the savings account but luckily I have my own checking account so I have so money. She demanded I replenish the shared checking account with half of the requested bills before the automatic bill payments and send her scans of all the bills.

Anyone been through something like this before? I have not replied to the email yet.

I am trying to stay Plan A, but at the the same time I am tempted to say, " I am not renewing any insurance on this vehicle (which is in her name). It will be in this parking lot with the key in it uninsured when next bill comes."

A second thought I had is make her watch our dogs for some nights of the week, to pressure her living situation. The only fear I have is that she will harm them. I know they aren't kids, so not exactly any useful leverage.

Any advice is useful thanks guys!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 03:00 AM
I also wanted to say something like "I cannot pay these bills as well as the renovations we scheduled on the basement without our savings."

There is also ~$400 in the shared checking account should I just take that out for myself, similar to how she took the savings? Or is that "counter-PlanA" ?
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 06:06 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
So I just heard from my wife for the first time in a pretty long time via email. Unfortunately it was quite cold and very "business oriented."

So she was talking about our finances. She demanded that I pay for half of several things then also demanded that I find my own phone service as well as insurance on the vehicle I drive.

She cleaned out the savings account but luckily I have my own checking account so I have so money. She demanded I replenish the shared checking account with half of the requested bills before the automatic bill payments and send her scans of all the bills.

Anyone been through something like this before? I have not replied to the email yet.

I am trying to stay Plan A, but at the the same time I am tempted to say, " I am not renewing any insurance on this vehicle (which is in her name). It will be in this parking lot with the key in it uninsured when next bill comes."

A second thought I had is make her watch our dogs for some nights of the week, to pressure her living situation. The only fear I have is that she will harm them. I know they aren't kids, so not exactly any useful leverage.

Any advice is useful thanks guys!

I've been down this fun road. All of this is fairly normal from what I've seen here with wayward wives.

On her demands to pay things:

You need to sit down and look at your budget to figure out what is yours and what is hers. It sucks but until things improve you have to look at things as no longer joint, since she is fogged. What I would not do is send her ANY money and expect that she will put it towards something. She's fogged and will lie, cheat and otherwise try to destroy you since you just rained on her affair parade by exposing it. I would put not one red cent into your joint bank account until she has committed to the MB plan to recover your marriage.

Car insurance
: Unless it will just break your bank, I would pay for car insurance (pay them DIRECTLY). Yes, you don't want to enable her but if she has a wreck without insurance you might lose the car outright and unless she brought this vehicle into the marriage it is marital property. In this case I'd protect this asset until a divorce settlement and if you recover your marriage it works itself out. Change your coverage levels or increase your deductibles if you must to afford it.

Health/life/renters/etc insurance
: The same as above.

Rent/House payment: Don't get yourself kicked out of your home, pay this on your own and don't expect help from her. You can politely ask, but don't expect help. If you can't afford to do this, explain why and we can help you think of good options.

Credit cards/lines of credit/loans/other bills: Figure out who's head the responsibility falls on for payment. If it's her CC/loan/etc and not a joint account, let her worry about it. Pay what you are responsible for. Things like renovations to your house are discretionary and have to be put on hold for now given your marital situation. I'd put the brakes on anything like that rather than asking for money she has already taken from you.

Document (with something that would stand up in a court room, like a bank statement) what was removed from your savings account. If that was a joint bank account, you are entitled to 50% of that and it will be very relevant to a settlement or property division.

On scans for bills...what does she claim to need them for?

Dogs: Overthinking it here. The pressure on her living situation will come from the fact that she just made her life incredibly complicated by having an affair which was discovered and well exposed by her husband. She could probably care less about the dogs right now.

How much was her legal fee on your CC? It may have only been a consult fee. If she's asking you for copies of the bills and for financial aid, she didn't make many actual preparations to file for divorce.

You need to be very careful with how you respond to her. If my read on this is right, by cold in her emails you mean "ice cold" like you've never meant anything to her. Not the sort of thing anyone enjoys reading. It will be easy to lovebust her if you are not careful.

Plan A is exposing (which you have done) and offering/trying to meet the wayward spouse's emotional needs. Finances don't have much to do with it. Financially, your job right now is to protect your marital assets until you either recover your marriage or reach a divorce settlement. It doesn't really factor into Plan A.

In your reply, if you MUST discuss finances to do that job of protecting marital assets, then do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't, to be honest. Tell her you love her, miss her and want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with her, but that her affair is the most painful thing that has ever happened to you and that you cannot do that until she ends her affair and returns home.

Try to meet her emotional needs where possible and be thoughtful and kind to her (no lovebusters), but remember this is a self-imposed exile on her part that you have no obligation to support with money, copies of the bills, etc. The type of things she is asking for here are not the type of things anyone gets from anyone else via email impromptu like this. Would you expect to successfully get someone else to send you money and copies of their bills the way she is expecting that of you?

She's just trying to compartmentalize you by refusing to talk to you otherwise and hoping that she can threaten you into going along with this.

Do some serious budgeting on your end to make sure your ends meet, and batten down the hatches a bit here. You're probably going to have to wait for her life in affairland to flounder so badly that option WC doesn't look so bad after all. No telling how long that may take.

Also, I finalized a fairly quick (settlement before trial) divorce earlier this year. I had no house, no kids, only cars, guns, credit cards and my own retirement account to sort out. I still ended up spending $2500 to get the whole thing done. $1000 divorce would be a miracle, especially since your WW is already bent out of shape about money. Don't plan on it.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
On scans for bills...what does she claim to need them for?

I believe its her way of reestablishing control, there is no way I am going through the effort of scanning the bills and emailing them to her. I doubt she actually needs them at all - just a power trip.

Originally Posted by axslinger85
How much was her legal fee on your CC? It may have only been a consult fee. If she's asking you for copies of the bills and for financial aid, she didn't make many actual preparations to file for divorce.

The fee was for $375. My attorney said that definitely looked like a filing fee, and that I should expect service papers in the mail soon. However, I do not know the rates of the attorney she went to... Maybe it was a consultation.

Originally Posted by axslinger85
In your reply, if you MUST discuss finances to do that job of protecting marital assets, then do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't, to be honest. Tell her you love her, miss her and want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with her, but that her affair is the most painful thing that has ever happened to you and that you cannot do that until she ends her affair and returns home.
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Do some serious budgeting on your end to make sure your ends meet, and batten down the hatches a bit here. You're probably going to have to wait for her life in affairland to flounder so badly that option WC doesn't look so bad after all. No telling how long that may take.

I am going to try to reply by Thursday. I will definitely add this to the email. I wanted to keep it short and maybe tack on there "I really enjoyed doing this together"

I am going to have to do some research as to how to cancel automatic payments she has in place. I may have to call the bank and just be honest with them - then call all my payees and let them know I will prefer paper bills moving forward. These are goals I have before Thursday's reply - even though that reply will have nothing to do with finances in it.

Maybe all of us can come together to draft an ideal response to her email? I will work on the finances, but maybe some of you "wordsmiths" can assist me in sending her something very "PlanA" laugh

Thanks for the response axslinger, all very helpful considerations.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 04:06 PM
Hey all I have some news.

Joyce responded to my email and I will be a caller on the MB radio @ 12:50pm ET on Friday, 11/20. I appreciate you all for encouraging me to reach out to them.

Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by axslinger85
On scans for bills...what does she claim to need them for?

I believe its her way of reestablishing control, there is no way I am going through the effort of scanning the bills and emailing them to her. I doubt she actually needs them at all - just a power trip.

This is typical wayward antics. But just be aware that if push comes to shove, she probably does have a right to copies of the bills. My ex/his atty threw hissy fit over wanting scans of every bills - and they weren't satisfied with the fact that I used the CamScanner app - they wanted real paper copies. They wouldn't let this one go. So I guess this goes back to where I was telling you that divorcing a wayward combined with slimy lawyers who don't care about wasting your money can become nasty fast...

Originally Posted by axslinger85
How much was her legal fee on your CC? It may have only been a consult fee. If she's asking you for copies of the bills and for financial aid, she didn't make many actual preparations to file for divorce.


Quote
The fee was for $375. My attorney said that definitely looked like a filing fee, and that I should expect service papers in the mail soon. However, I do not know the rates of the attorney she went to... Maybe it was a consultation.
I doubt that's a consultation fee. Sorry if this was covered but have you closed out that joint credit card? If not, you should and force her to get her own account. Also I think you should go along with separating all those things that she wants separated like the phone. That's all standard stuff that she has a right to ask for and if you resist it's just going to cost you more in legal $$ now that you both have lawyers.

Regarding the financials and other sticky discussions, I believe the standard MB advice is that you tell her the lawyers will handle the legal finacial talk in order to avoid any lovebusting and arguments.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 04:20 PM
Another regarding the bills, I signed up for ebilling on all those bills and on some you can log in on their site and download PDF's of your bills and just email them.

It's kind of a PITA to set up and get going but will be easier than making hard copies or scanning bills.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
The fee was for $375. My attorney said that definitely looked like a filing fee, and that I should expect service papers in the mail soon. However, I do not know the rates of the attorney she went to... Maybe it was a consultation.

I am going to have to do some research as to how to cancel automatic payments she has in place. I may have to call the bank and just be honest with them - then call all my payees and let them know I will prefer paper bills moving forward. These are goals I have before Thursday's reply - even though that reply will have nothing to do with finances in it.

Maybe all of us can come together to draft an ideal response to her email? I will work on the finances, but maybe some of you "wordsmiths" can assist me in sending her something very "PlanA" laugh

Thanks for the response axslinger, all very helpful considerations.

I agree with SusieQ that $375 isn't likely a consult fee. Too high. Get that CC cancelled or frozen fast because while $375 will cover a filing fee, it's nowhere close to a typical retainer for a divorce and her attorney may just be waiting for your response to the divorce petition to determine the cost of the retainer. Call the CC company and explain the situation.

On autopays coming out of your joint account that aren't for your stuff....you're on the right track. Call the bank, tell them what has happened. They don't want the payments to bounce either, they can block ACH withdrawals if they know who the payee is and you can figure that out looking at your bank statement. You don't want to deal with a bunch of overdraft fees.

You *can't* cancel payment methods on accounts for which she is the primary contact or cardholder/etc. You may even have trouble getting authorized to obtain information on the account, even as her husband. So switch over the stuff you can (yours or joint), cancel anything you can that is joint, and make sure the bank is advised not to process ACH payments towards her stuff.

And document everything.

SusieQ is right that your wife could technically legally argue her right to those documents she wants scanned, but this early on in the game, I doubt she will put forth the effort required. I think she is just trying to intimidate you.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
SusieQ is right that your wife could technically legally argue her right to those documents she wants scanned, but this early on in the game, I doubt she will put forth the effort required. I think she is just trying to intimidate you.

Like I said, it's typical wayward divorce behavior. Not only have I been through this myself, I have seen scores of BS's go through it here on the forum. No point in trying to decipher it.

And sorry to say....expect more of it.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 05:19 PM
The problem is she is the primary on all of our bank joint accounts... Which I am running into trouble today. The bank is understanding but they are saying I can't do anything about the automatic payments.

Should I just email her back requesting her cancel all automatic payments?

I always thought I'd be the one who screwed up the marriage - so I made sure she was primary on everything... Mistakes were made.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 05:26 PM
Yes, email her requesting that but if she gets ugly and continues to be unreasonable, you may just have to work this out through the lawyers in a separation agreement frown

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 05:59 PM
OK So its clear I need to respond to her email with some considerations about our finances.

How is this:

Thank you for the email regarding our finances. I have made arrangements to take care of the bills you are requesting I take on separately (phone, the car I am driving, etc.). Please cancel all automatic bill payments that use our Joint checking account, so I can request paper bills from those payees, or set up direct withdraws from my personal accounts. This includes: our mortgage, my car payment and my student loans. Additionally, basement renovations will be delayed (or cancelled) unless you can return some of our savings to help fund it.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair.

What do you think? Too sappy? Too aggressive?
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 06:17 PM
I wouldn't offer to cooperate with her. Did you ask about removing yourself from this account since she is the primary?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 06:33 PM
I was considering doing that but I was afraid that in doing so I might inherently open myself up to "Negligence of Responsibilities."

My thought process was if that is how we pay the bills, and I take myself off them, am I neglecting our bills??

I could call the bank and ask to remove myself from the accounts If anyone thinks my thought process is incorrect.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 06:40 PM
She is trying to set in place the financial logistics of your divorce and I would not assist that process voluntarily. If she doesn't have $350 without hitting a credit card, I very much doubt she has the money to put teeth on any of the rest of what she's asking you for. I forgot she cleaned out your saving account already.

You don't really need to respond that you have got your own insurance or phone billing set up, she will figure that out on her own.

Can you not switch your mortgage/car payment/student loan to your personal account on your own?
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 06:45 PM
Having been through this process I do not think there is enough at stake here for you to even worry about the consequences of removing yourself from the bank account, provided that you continue to keep important joint assets such as your house above water.

Your attorney (and her attorney) will probably not want to see this to trial since you have no kids and your marriage is too short for spousal support to factor in, because it's a lot more expense and work for everyone if it goes to trial. They will push you guys for a quick settlement.

BUT...that is just my $.02.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 07:02 PM
I cannot switch those three over because they are all set to automatic payments that she set up as the primary account holder. The bank is so frustrating - They are like "I am sorry that you are going through this lets see if we can help at all...........Oh nope, we can't, are you not talking to your wife anymore?"

Ugh.

So I am at a cross roads...
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 07:18 PM
Honestly I don't have an answer for you about the accounts. Everyone does it differently. The way the bills were handled in my divorce was that we separated our bank accounts, I paid all the bills, provided him copies of them and he paid a percentage. You will have to ask your lawyer.

I'm going to restate my advice and also think it's great that you are talking to Dr Harley on Friday because you can ask him about this.

Because you are in a Plan A but also divorcing situation you have a balancing act to maintain. You want to protect yourself legally but you also don't want to lovebust her.

Again, anything that she asks you for that is reasonable in a divorce situation, I would not fight her on. Anything that she becomes unreasonable about or sticky, rather than standing your ground or fighting with her, tell her your lawyer is handling it. But don't compromise yourself financially regardless.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Your attorney (and her attorney) will probably not want to see this to trial since you have no kids and your marriage is too short for spousal support to factor in, because it's a lot more expense and work for everyone if it goes to trial. They will push you guys for a quick settlement.

BUT...that is just my $.02.

That's beside the point, because he intends to drag the divorce out for a year.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 07:34 PM
Axslinger I appreciate you trying to assist me here. Here is what I think I am going to do today.

Take the remaining money out of the joint checking account and put it in my personal account (~$300) That will zero that checking account out.

Send her this revised email Maybe not today, but later this week:

"Thank you for discussing your concerns with me about our finances. Please cancel all these automatic bill payments: mortgage, my car and my student loans so I can pay them from my personal accounts. Basement renovations will be delayed or cancelled if you do not return some of our savings.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair."

Then I am going to wait for her response - If she does in fact end the automatic payments. I am going to pay the mortgage in its entirety and take her half she is willing to put into the accounts and just transfer it to my accounts. Until she ends the automatic bill payments, I have to play by her rules. Which who wants to play by the rules of a lunatic?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/16/15 08:35 PM
Axslinger - I think the revised email is a little less "cooperative" as you advised in a earlier post.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 01:03 AM
So she got something to eat on our joint checking account - then instantly replenished it in excess of $10. Is she trying to look "good" to me?

I am still thinking of exactly how I want to word this email. I did not take the remaining money out of our joint checking.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 02:26 AM
Sorry I'm filling this up today.

So some of her coworkers (I think) just came to my house, knocked on my front door. I answered and they tossed a copy of the divorce papers in the door and ran off like cowards. There were four to six of them in the car that drove off.

Now I know that doesn't count as my "service" but I have a copy of the papers. I am sending them to my attorney tomorrow.

Pretty depressed now though. Those cowards are absorbing my wife into their world. All the work exposure in the world is not going to help at a company that so readily supports this behavior. I still love her so much, and my hatred for this company grows every second with every incredibly secular/worldly activity they perform.

I just want to save her from this darkness and save my wife. The affair has to end... She needs to get out of that company.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 03:45 AM
If your WW files a Proof of Service with the court, I would have your lawyer refute that you were not properly served. Most counties have online access to divorce filings. Look for the Superior Court of your county and look for a civil or family case online access link. You can search by name.

Papers thrown through a door should not count as service. You can always say you kicked them out and they maybe blew away in the wind. wink Papers are to be delivered directly into your hand or signed for. I wouldn't even give your lawyer the papers but tell him how they may have been thrown at you. whistle
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 12:50 PM
So maybe my email should just state:

"My attorney will communicate with your attorney regarding our financial obligations.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair. "

Some of the terms in her original email regarding our finances cannot happen according to the divorce papers - so I will take all your advice and just let my attorney handle it (for extra dollars obviously, like you all warned).
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
If your WW files a Proof of Service with the court, I would have your lawyer refute that you were not properly served. Most counties have online access to divorce filings. Look for the Superior Court of your county and look for a civil or family case online access link. You can search by name.

Papers thrown through a door should not count as service. You can always say you kicked them out and they maybe blew away in the wind. wink Papers are to be delivered directly into your hand or signed for. I wouldn't even give your lawyer the papers but tell him how they may have been thrown at you. whistle

I will call my attorney today and explain what happened.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Axslinger I appreciate you trying to assist me here. Here is what I think I am going to do today.

Take the remaining money out of the joint checking account and put it in my personal account (~$300) That will zero that checking account out.

Send her this revised email Maybe not today, but later this week:

"Thank you for discussing your concerns with me about our finances. Please cancel all these automatic bill payments: mortgage, my car and my student loans so I can pay them from my personal accounts. Basement renovations will be delayed or cancelled if you do not return some of our savings.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair."

Then I am going to wait for her response - If she does in fact end the automatic payments. I am going to pay the mortgage in its entirety and take her half she is willing to put into the accounts and just transfer it to my accounts. Until she ends the automatic bill payments, I have to play by her rules. Which who wants to play by the rules of a lunatic?

I think that looks fine and reasonable.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
So she got something to eat on our joint checking account - then instantly replenished it in excess of $10. Is she trying to look "good" to me?

Probably overthinking it there.

It sounds like she's kind of gone dark on you, communication-wise. Have you tried to contact her much?
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
If your WW files a Proof of Service with the court, I would have your lawyer refute that you were not properly served. Most counties have online access to divorce filings. Look for the Superior Court of your county and look for a civil or family case online access link. You can search by name.

Papers thrown through a door should not count as service. You can always say you kicked them out and they maybe blew away in the wind. wink Papers are to be delivered directly into your hand or signed for. I wouldn't even give your lawyer the papers but tell him how they may have been thrown at you. whistle

x2

It's not terribly expensive to pay for proper service of the papers. Not very smart to do it the way she did.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 01:38 PM
I should rexplain - they weren't thrown at me they were slid through the screen door right as I opened it. I didn't see their face because they turned away right away. No words were spoken until I said "Whats your name?"
"Its Name" *slammed car door shut with everyone and sped off.

Incredibly unprofessional...

Just talked to my attorney's secretary and she said that could have been my service depedning on what gets reported back to the court. So I guess I'll wait and see.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 03:02 PM
Did any of these people see you pick up the papers? If not then it's their word against yours that you picked them up. Leaving them at your doorstep is not sufficient for service. You have to accept the papers in some form.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Those cowards are absorbing my wife into their world. All the work exposure in the world is not going to help at a company that so readily supports this behavior. I still love her so much, and my hatred for this company grows every second with every incredibly secular/worldly activity they perform.

I just want to save her from this darkness and save my wife. The affair has to end... She needs to get out of that company.

I just want to point out that many BH's have the tendency to want to absolve their WW's of responsibility for their behavior.

While I agree that it would be best for your WW to leave that environment for your best chance of recovery, I do not agree that she is some kind of victim to some crazy group that are trying to absorb her into their lifestyle and that she is some mindless idiot that is going along with it.

People who have poor boundaries love to hang out with others who have poor boundaries. This is your WW's tendency - just because you get her out of that workplace if she doesn't work on her boundaries, she will just gravitate towards the same people at the next place she goes to. Ask me how I know.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 03:35 PM
They dropped it inside the door and I caught it. I looked at it and then yelled for their name. So yes, I guess they saw me receive the papers - and their was like four to six of them in the car.

My attorney is calling me in person later this afternoon I will inform you on what he says. After that meeting I will send this email to her:

My attorney will communicate with your attorney regarding our financial obligations. I think this avoids LB'ing her over the money

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair.This is the point of the email, so I can at least get some Plan A on her


I am also going to ask that my attorney "lifts" the restraining order that was in the divorce paperwork that states that the plaintiff(my wife) or defendant is not allowed in the household if she has been absent for at least 30 days. That way she can still come over if she desires. I think I saw in the paperwork that I can do that if I am OK with it.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
I just want to point out that many BH's have the tendency to want to absolve their WW's of responsibility for their behavior.

While I agree that it would be best for your WW to leave that environment for your best chance of recovery, I do not agree that she is some kind of victim to some crazy group that are trying to absorb her into their lifestyle and that she is some mindless idiot that is going along with it.

People who have poor boundaries love to hang out with others who have poor boundaries. This is your WW's tendency - just because you get her out of that workplace if she doesn't work on her boundaries, she will just gravitate towards the same people at the next place she goes to. Ask me how I know.

SusieQ, my brother said something similar. I do sense that I am giving her an awful lot of credit. I do feel like a little bit at first it was not herself, she got tempted in. But she got tempted in because she lacked boundaries and discipline. The point I am trying to make is that these people she is surrounding herself in now are very much enabling the behavior.
When I met her, she was a devout Christian woman (cliche I know). She was extremely faithful through a long distance relationship and actually told me once that if I "ever looked at pornography, she would forget my name." That's how strongly she felt about adultery and faithfulness. Those words were all I needed to destroy any temptation I may face - even to this day.

SusieQ, I believe she went through some emotional trauma when we miscarried. She was questioning everything she has ever done with me. She may have resented God a little bit and strayed from her beliefs - heard something that sounded good and comforting from a coworker...then another... then one that really made her feel good. BOOM affair.

Susie, you could be right though - and time will tell. I could have just been strung along for a ride and she actually is this kind of person. I just can't let this last month and half of behavior define my wife and I's last 7-8 years of relationship.

Thanks for keeping that position Susie, I know it always looks like I am bad mouthing you but I do appreciate your stance looking out for a BH like myself.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
When I met her, she was a devout Christian woman (cliche I know).
We have had pastors, deacons and all other kinds of devout christians here who are in affairs or even multiiple affairs - that is completely irrelevant to whether someone is at risk to have an affair or not. In fact the type of people who think like that are the types of people who are more at risk.

Quote
She was extremely faithful through a long distance relationship and actually told me once that if I "ever looked at pornography, she would forget my name." That's how strongly she felt about adultery and faithfulness. Those words were all I needed to destroy any temptation I may face - even to this day.
I have known my WxH since I was in grade school. One of the things I always liked about him (we didn't start dating until later) was how kind and compassionate he was torwards others. Not only that, when we first started dating, he told me about someone close to him in his family that had had an affair and how much he hated that they did that and how WRONG he thought affairs were. Again, a person being "good" or "bad" is compeletely irrelevant to whether they will have an affair.

Quote
SusieQ, I believe she went through some emotional trauma when we miscarried. She was questioning everything she has ever done with me. She may have resented God a little bit and strayed from her beliefs - heard something that sounded good and comforting from a coworker...then another... then one that really made her feel good. BOOM affair.
I wrongly attributed at least part of the reason that my WxH having an affair on a trauma that he had suffered shortly before he had the affair. His close friend since childhool (someone I knew very well also) killed himself. It set my WxH on a depression and he would play games for hours and hours as an escape. Then he became obsessed with making an advancement w/n his profession...boom he had his affair.

Again, WRONG - he went on to have another affair 4 years later.

Quote
Susie, you could be right though - and time will tell. I could have just been strung along for a ride and she actually is this kind of person. I just can't let this last month and half of behavior define my wife and I's last 7-8 years of relationship.
The only type of person that I am suggesting that she is, friendly, chatty, charismatic, very social with members of the opposite sex as well as females. If there would be a group event with work people where spouses were excluded would she jump at the chance to join in, even if she didn't have to? When you look back, can you see it? I am certain that you can.

Quote
Thanks for keeping that position Susie, I know it always looks like I am bad mouthing you but I do appreciate your stance looking out for a BH like myself.
No worries. Just keep in mind that this is the NORM (a BH looking for a way to paint their WW as the victim). That kind of thinking will get you into trouble should you two ever attempt a recovery.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 04:38 PM
Quote
Susie, you could be right though - and time will tell. I could have just been strung along for a ride and she actually is this kind of person. I just can't let this last month and half of behavior define my wife and I's last 7-8 years of relationship.

One more thing. To illustrate how well I get this - my WxH was a great father and a pretty good husband for TEN YEARS before he had his first affair. Once we recovered and were doing so well, it really rocked my world that he did it AGAIN - and the second time after I went into Plan B/D - his behavior shifted so dramatically, even in terms of his parenting....that I struggled to understand for a long time.

SMB and HPB were my IM's and they can vouch for me. Ask them.

If your WW doesn't either completely tighten up her boundaries (if she is the type of person that I think she is, this will be hard for her) or you keep her far away from a job where she can chat and engage with men, she will be at HIGH RISK.

Ironically, he is now baptized and pretty religious because his new wife is and still behaves very wayward while I am not very religious at all. It's a wayward issue - not a religious issue.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:05 PM
Meeting my attorney tomorrow - he said we can delay the process 6-9mos probably. Which is OK with me - its probably the best I can do. He also said he could probably get me half of that savings (probably because he knows its going right in her wallet).

I read that we can make a motion for counseling - but she can decline. Maybe we try that after the holidays while she is a little nostalgic... I don't know.

I am probably going to send that email this afternoon to her.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:06 PM
WC,
Listen carefully to SuzieQ.
She is giving you pearls of wisdom, that i wish someone would have given me. She is describing my ex-wife when she talks about her exH. It illustrates that these affairs are so predictable and follow almost an exact script, time and time again.

Poor boundaries attract poor boundaries. In hindsight, i saw the same thing with my ex and tried to apologize for her.
My ex started hanging around 5 women with poor boundaries and all complained about their husbands. Guess what, within 3 years, all were divorced due to affairs, they were branded the "toxic wives club". Your wife is hanging out with people who are actively supporting the affair and are against YOU.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:08 PM
Are you not listening? I believe you have been advised to stay away from marriage counseling or individual counseling for your wayward.

Both are a recipe for DISASTER. Plus it will be a LB at this point, so why hit the wasp nest with a court motion?

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:24 PM
I was just thinking of ways to delay the process neb...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I read that we can make a motion for counseling - but she can decline. Maybe we try that after the holidays while she is a little nostalgic... I don't know.

That will probably doom your marriage. Marriage counselors don't know how to save marriages and don't understand the dynamics of infidelity. As such, they tend to validate the marriage wrecking ideas of waywards, which will doom your marriage. MC's are little more than divorce facilitators.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I was just thinking of ways to delay the process neb...

So you would do something that would probably ruin any chance at recovery just to delay the divorce?

Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:28 PM

WC, you realize that your WW is no different than any other wayward, right?

This is a serious question.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:41 PM
OK guys. Lets try this. I want advice as to what I should do to give my wife time to "defog"

Please, I understand my WW is just like any other wayward. I am not and will not ever be OK with divorcing her. How do I give myself time to let her defog.

IF this marriage breaks down in the recovery stage that is what was meant to be. Please give me advice as to how to get to/survive until that stage.

If seeing MC's is a bad idea then I wont make a motion for it. I just saw a couple weeks in my head when I thought of that.

I appreciate you trying to protect me from pain, but I have a very high threshold for pain. I want my wife back, I want to try recovery. Earlier in a post someone said "The chances of your WW coming back are actually quite good." But they said the recovery is the hard part. I just want to get to that stage. I am trying to keep the divorce at bay until that stage.

I am sorry if it appears I am ignoring you. I really do appreciate you trying to protect me - I just want to focus on getting to recovery. Then attacking the recovery pains when I get there. Not assuming the pain will be to great in the future and ignoring the entire process ("cut your losses")

I committed to this woman, regardless of what she has done to me. If I don't wait it out until she "defogs" what kind of husband am I?
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:58 PM
You can only Plan A at this point, but protecting yourself legally. With NO lovebusters, only deposits. You must be cool, calm, NO judgements ever. Find things to do together and invite her.
Make sure you SLEEP, EAT right, and EXERCISE as ways to cope with this TRAUMA.

Patience.
This will be the hardest thing you will ever attempt in your life, period. Repeat, this will be the hardest thing you will ever attempt in your life, and you may fail even if you are perfect and give 10,000%.
She won't defog if she is still in contact of any fashion. She is not at reconcile/recovery.

You are frankly stuck.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
OK guys. Lets try this. I want advice as to what I should do to give my wife time to "defog"

Please, I understand my WW is just like any other wayward. I am not and will not ever be OK with divorcing her. How do I give myself time to let her defog.

IF this marriage breaks down in the recovery stage that is what was meant to be. Please give me advice as to how to get to/survive until that stage.

If seeing MC's is a bad idea then I wont make a motion for it. I just saw a couple weeks in my head when I thought of that.

I appreciate you trying to protect me from pain, but I have a very high threshold for pain. I want my wife back, I want to try recovery. Earlier in a post someone said "The chances of your WW coming back are actually quite good." But they said the recovery is the hard part. I just want to get to that stage. I am trying to keep the divorce at bay until that stage.

I am sorry if it appears I am ignoring you. I really do appreciate you trying to protect me - I just want to focus on getting to recovery. Then attacking the recovery pains when I get there. Not assuming the pain will be to great in the future and ignoring the entire process ("cut your losses")

I committed to this woman, regardless of what she has done to me. If I don't wait it out until she "defogs" what kind of husband am I?
You can divorce and still wait it out until she defogs. A divorce does not have to mean that you are cutting your losses and giving up.

There is no point delaying the divorce if it means taking an action that is likely to make things worse - and marriage counselling WILL make things worse. You will be told to listen while your wife "communicates" her complaints to you, and then you will be encouraged to let her go. She will be encouraged to do what makes her feel happy, which means divorce.

I'm not saying that you should actively pursue a divorce, but that you should not choose a course of action that will make things worse. You've got to be smarter than that.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
OK guys. Lets try this. I want advice as to what I should do to give my wife time to "defog"

Please, I understand my WW is just like any other wayward. I am not and will not ever be OK with divorcing her. How do I give myself time to let her defog.

IF this marriage breaks down in the recovery stage that is what was meant to be. Please give me advice as to how to get to/survive until that stage.

If seeing MC's is a bad idea then I wont make a motion for it. I just saw a couple weeks in my head when I thought of that.

I appreciate you trying to protect me from pain, but I have a very high threshold for pain. I want my wife back, I want to try recovery. Earlier in a post someone said "The chances of your WW coming back are actually quite good." But they said the recovery is the hard part. I just want to get to that stage. I am trying to keep the divorce at bay until that stage.

I am sorry if it appears I am ignoring you. I really do appreciate you trying to protect me - I just want to focus on getting to recovery. Then attacking the recovery pains when I get there. Not assuming the pain will be to great in the future and ignoring the entire process ("cut your losses")

I committed to this woman, regardless of what she has done to me. If I don't wait it out until she "defogs" what kind of husband am I?

I would spend time reading and re-reading this site and all the articles. Educate yourself. Read through people's threads. While you quietly Plan A.

I don't get the sense that you understand that all waywards are alike and that your situation is no different than anyone else's.

It won't help your situation if you are in your own BH fog - not a bit. You would just be making a bad situation WORSE.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
You can only Plan A at this point, but protecting yourself legally. With NO lovebusters, only deposits. You must be cool, calm, NO judgements ever. Find things to do together and invite her.
Make sure you SLEEP, EAT right, and EXERCISE as ways to cope with this TRAUMA.

Patience.
This will be the hardest thing you will ever attempt in your life, period. Repeat, this will be the hardest thing you will ever attempt in your life, and you may fail even if you are perfect and give 10,000%.
She won't defog if she is still in contact of any fashion. She is not at reconcile/recovery.

You are frankly stuck.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
I'm not saying that you should actively pursue a divorce, but that you should not choose a course of action that will make things worse. You've got to be smarter than that.

Thank you. It is clear that MC is a bad idea. I will let the attorney know that I was not thinking clearly about it. I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow at 5:30pm maybe we can come up with other strategies to get to that 6-9mos time frame.

Until then I will Plan A. I think I definitely need to "lift" the restraining order and give myself the opportunity to talk to her if she ventures over. I cannot Plan A her if she is not only actively ignoring me, but also legally not allowed to be at the house.

My best Plan A activity is likely to arise around holiday season. I am going to ask Dr. Bill & Joyce in my call on Friday what to do while she is out of the house (aka between exposure and Plan A). Email her little things? IDK.

I think its clear that sending her the email today is my best gesture for Plan A, while also taking some stress off my back about the finances.

Thank you guys for those posts, they were more encouraging... I am sorry if I always sound like I am arguing...
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
I would spend time reading and re-reading this site and all the articles. Educate yourself. Read through people's threads. While you quietly Plan A.

I don't get the sense that you understand that all waywards are alike and that your situation is no different than anyone else's.

It won't help your situation if you are in your own BH fog - not a bit. You would just be making a bad situation WORSE.

I will take some time to read additional threads and other resources on the site.
Posted By: zibbles Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 07:26 PM
Some people never come out of the fog. No matter what you do, your wife may never come out of it!

I hate to be the devil's advocate but I will reiterate what some others said earlier, it's a young marriage with no kids. There's not a lot of 'glue' here.

It might behoove you to at least consider that your marriage is ending and that you're going to need to prepare to move on. Dragging out the divorce will be expensive and in her eyes, a huge love buster. She might need to get divorced to see what life is like without you. Once you are no longer the 'enemy' she might come to her senses. Maybe.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 10:11 PM
When you file a Response to the divorce or countefile you should cite adultery and name the OM. 1) it gives you leverage. 2) The affair is forever documented so it's even more unlikely for it to last. 3) It is the truth and something your WW needs own. 4) it gives you leverage.

Your attorney may tell you just go with irreconcilable differences but I strongly suggest you cite the adultery. People who don't usually regret it later.

Also don't spend a lot to time talking to our attorney for hours and hours. You will blow through your money quickly by doing so. Make sure you read how he bills. Typically, charges are made in 15 or 20 min minimum increments so when you HAVE to talk to him,use your full 15 min vs two min here and two min there. Those two 2 min increments would be 30 mins billable. Does that make sense? There is no need for him to make photo copies to give you when he can email you a document...stuff like that can add up.

I would still consider claiming you weren't served since you are looking to buy time. Did you check your county's online court records to see what has been filed?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
When you file a Response to the divorce or countefile you should cite adultery and name the OM. 1) it gives you leverage. 2) The affair is forever documented so it's even more unlikely for it to last. 3) It is the truth and something your WW needs own. 4) it gives you leverage.

Your attorney may tell you just go with irreconcilable differences but I strongly suggest you cite the adultery. People who don't usually regret it later.

Also don't spend a lot to time talking to our attorney for hours and hours. You will blow through your money quickly by doing so. Make sure you read how he bills. Typically, charges are made in 15 or 20 min minimum increments so when you HAVE to talk to him,use your full 15 min vs two min here and two min there. Those two 2 min increments would be 30 mins billable. Does that make sense? There is no need for him to make photo copies to give you when he can email you a document...stuff like that can add up.

I would still consider claiming you weren't served since you are looking to buy time. Did you check your county's online court records to see what has been filed?

He said I could refute that I was not properly served, but he said the court will recognize that as a proper service. I will look at how he bills and definitely cite the adultery. This will also clear up one thing - do I actually have the right OM? If an attorney contacts him for any type of testimony also, that would be enough to scare off even the stickiest of OMs I imagine.

That is great advice. I will address these things with the attorney tomorrow.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/17/15 11:23 PM
Hey all. Just sent her this email:


Mrs Wrestlerchemist,

My attorney will communicate with your attorney regarding our financial obligations.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair.

Thinking about you,
WrestlerChemist
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/18/15 01:59 PM
I finally tracked down our Pastor last night (he also is the one that married us). We go to a big church and he was out of the country for the last few weeks so I finally got to talk to him in person. He was devastated, he has known my wife and her family for a very long time. He was completely on board with me telling everyone and even her company saying "Your marriage is far more important than her career." I asked him to talk to my FIL & MIL because they are in emotional turmoil second only to me. He said he would prepare himself in prayer before calling my wife today.

There was a charge on our credit card for gas in Indiana, where our Matron of Honor lives. It appears she went to talk to her, which is encouraging.

Looks like some of this exposure is catching up. Some friends have called me to tell me what I am doing is very "Christ Like" and it is making them evaluate themselves as a husband. I just keep telling them that I have a strategy and a group of people who deal with infidelity in marriages daily (that's you guys!) Yesterday was quite encouraging for me after about 4pm.

Today I meet with my attorney, so I may quickly get discouraged around that time. But maybe not.

Just updates guys. Thanks
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 11/18/15 03:37 PM
I know how hard this is for you. My FWW's A lasted about 1-1/2 years with a full on FR. We are recovered now but it has been a very rocky road. It can happen for you too. However, it may not.

I know you feel completely out of control in this situation.

When I was where you are, I chose to put all the focus on myself. I would invite her from time to time to do things with me with NO pressure. My goal was to create 'mini points of time of enjoyment' between us which could add up over time.

I tried to make every interaction as enjoyable as possible with NO LB's.

Some of the questions you might really think about are:

What were her primary complaints about you? How can you change that?

How did you treat her when you were dating? What made her fall in love with you?

What were the things that made her fall out of love with you?

It is going to take time for this A to die..which it will. It is going to take time for her to fall out of love with him.

Right now, she sees no possible way to be in love with you. She does not think you will change. She might even think this is just a competition for you.

She might think that even if you do get back together, you could never forgive her and your M would never survive her A.


You have to convince her that the possibilities are real between you two..
I chose to not be a doormat. I chose to be strong and firm but loving at the same time.

You can only control you...Be strong and confident in yourself.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/18/15 09:52 PM
Thanks 20yearhistory for the encouragement. I will consider all those questions you mentioned... Maybe even write them down.

I am meeting with an attorney today in a few minutes. I took your guys' advice in being as prepared as possible. I printed off several relevant documents and hopefully we can be finished up fairly quickly today.

I will let you know how it goes - I will tell you I have heard from one friend already that my wife is telling people - "He cannot talk to you about this, its against his restraining order." (as people that I exposed to address her).

One of my friends was like "Umm do you want me to talk to my family lawyer to tell you that is an absolute lie"

HerPapaBear also chucked when I told him that, responding with "She thinks you have a restraining order from telling the truth to people?"

Anyways, par for the course for WW I suppose. I'll check in later guys!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/19/15 01:35 AM
Attorney said he is going to talk to her attorney and demand those automatic bill payments get cancelled. He said she will pay me the half she has agreed to via transfers to the joint account. He said "You are the one in the house so you should be in charge of those bills because you are the one the lights get turned off on."
He also said he is going to get my half of the savings back. He said we will take the max time to respond, then it will go to pretrial (which he said will be in mid- February). He said at that point he will suggest the martial reconciliation, which if she denies will still buy some time. Then a trial date will be set and that's as much time as he can buy me.

He said "I told you I'd do it for $1000 and that's what I'm charging you" when I inquired about his fees. So I paid him today on the joint credit card (Which I was worried because its joint and that was in my restraining order, but he would have said something I imagine.)

I asked if I should cite adultery and he explained that it would make the cost go up because you have to prove it and that takes legal work. Also, it would not help my counter actions. (It would be like I am actually asking for divorce at that point.)

I told him I want to lift the restraining order on my wife about her being able to visit the home. He said that is very doable. Once she has been served obviously

He said he is very understanding of what I am trying to accomplish. He was recommended to me by SexyMamaBear.

I will say my talk with him eased a lot of the stresses I did not understand about the legal battle. Now all I have to do is be patient and Plan A perfectly when given the opportunity and make myself very attractive to her, while she slowly loses her "fog" and LB's the OM.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/19/15 03:51 AM
WC,

Great job in reaching out to this Pastor, but I would follow up and see if he actually contacts her. A lot of clergy these days don't like to do the right thing if it means making enemies and will avoid conflict in situations like this. Just speaking from experience. If he actually contacts her, I think it is equally important that he contacts her family. He may be able to help them find a clue as to how help their daughter.

It is VERY encouraging that he supports accountability...in my own situation and others I read about on here there are unfortunately a lot of clergy out there who don't seem to understand the concept as it applies to adultery.

Your lawyer is interesting. I consulted 4 different attorneys in my situation (trying to AVOID filing for divorce) and none of them were as pro-marriage as your guy sounds. I think that is a positive for you.

The legal worries hanging over your head are very difficult to deal with. Make sure you are taking care of yourself. Men in your situation benefit greatly from studying MB literature (Love Busters is a great place to start) and physical conditioning. There's a LOT to learn out there about how to recognize and eliminate one's own marriage-harming habits. The conditioning will help reinforce the idea that you are making positive changes in YOURSELF no matter what your wife decides to do here. At the end of the day, that is all you can control.

I'd recommend body building/weight lifting, but some guys like distance running or other types of training. The important thing is focusing on making positive changes. That is how you will stay encouraged about becoming more attractive to your wife.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/19/15 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
WC,
Great job in reaching out to this Pastor, but I would follow up and see if he actually contacts her. A lot of clergy these days don't like to do the right thing if it means making enemies and will avoid conflict in situations like this. Just speaking from experience. If he actually contacts her, I think it is equally important that he contacts her family. He may be able to help them find a clue as to how help their daughter.

It is VERY encouraging that he supports accountability...in my own situation and others I read about on here there are unfortunately a lot of clergy out there who don't seem to understand the concept as it applies to adultery.

I am volunteering at the church tomorrow night to pack thanksgiving baskets for needy families in the area. When we spoke he had mentioned he would "likely see me there." I will go out of my way to ask him if he got a hold of her and if he spoke at all to my FIL and MIL. I would prefer asking him in person if maybe he could facilitate a conversation between himself, FIL, MIL and myself all together. My pastor calls using a private number, so its possible she ignored him. I will have more details on my pastor's actions since involvement tomorrow night.

She has been telling some of my friends that I am violating my temporary restraining orders by talking about the affair, which is humorous because the affair has not even been legally established. Just WW babble/lies attempting to silence me so "affair land" stays safe.

Tomorrow is my call in with Dr. Bill & Joyce at 12:50 eastern time. I was reading through the "wifedivorcing" thread in MelodyLane's signature and got some good insights on Plan A. I just feel helpless because she is not living with me or communicating with me at all. That is where patience comes into play I suppose... affair dies first, then reconciliation is possible. But until then, sit and wait. frown
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 11/19/15 07:24 PM
Do you think she might be willing to think about going and doing something with you that you both always enjoyed doing together?


Any time that you can find to go out and spend a little time together would be awesome. Just relaxing without any relationship talk..and no pressure.

Somehow she needs to see the side of you that she fell in love with. How can you find a way to spend a little time with her...stressing that you don't want to talk about anything serious.

I would think about backing off the pressure at this point. You have done an amazing job so far of putting the A out in the open.



Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/19/15 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Do you think she might be willing to think about going and doing something with you that you both always enjoyed doing together?

This is one reason I wanted to ask my pastor if we could maybe get her parents and us two (pastor, FIL, MIL and me) together for a conversation. If my in laws were a little more on the side of what I am doing - my wife and her family LOVES PLAYING CARDS.

Every time we went over to my in laws we played cards. Maybe one night in the future, if her family was on board we could play some cards.

I have also tried to invite her to take our two dogs to the park. But she has always very quickly declined (that was pre-exposure by the way). Maybe sometime in the future we can do that.

Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
I would think about backing off the pressure at this point. You have done an amazing job so far of putting the A out in the open.

God is definitely testing my endurance. The above comment about the card playing will be a future goal. But you are right, I just need to back off a bit, let her self destruct. It is just so dang hard waiting... I know everyone of you guys knows that already.

My birthday is next week, and hers the week after that. Should I get her a card? I have no idea where she is staying so I don't know how I would get it to her... maybe put it in her parents mailbox?
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/19/15 09:32 PM

You've been through a lot. Don't be too hard on yourself trying to think of a way to Plan A her - the meeting ENs part of Plan A....it's really tough to make any headway while she is still actively in her A.

If a spot opens up where she would be open to LB$ deposits, you will probably know it (because she will probably reach out to you).

Try to relax and I am certain you will feel better after you talk to Dr Harley.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/19/15 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
You've been through a lot. Don't be too hard on yourself trying to think of a way to Plan A her - the meeting ENs part of Plan A....it's really tough to make any headway while she is still actively in her A.

If a spot opens up where she would be open to LB$ deposits, you will probably know it (because she will probably reach out to you).

Try to relax and I am certain you will feel better after you talk to Dr Harley.

Thanks SusieQ.

I think I am almost to the point were I can really start focusing on myself. Like I am at a point were the pain is tolerable - not paralyzing. Clearly up the legal technicalities really helped...

The only thing I still need to conquer is this thought I have been having (not to beat the dead horse, I am sure you have heard it all before):

"I am waiting for the chance to reconcile...Not waiting for reconciliation"

Just a thought that gets me nervous again, but I just have got in the habit of quickly asking God to ease my spirit and keep moving forward. I believe in what I (we) have done.

Thanks for the posts today guys, I will tune in tomorrow after I talk on MB radio & meet with my pastor.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 04:16 PM
Are you on ADs?

Someone else mentioned it but I'll re-emphasie that self-care, especially exercise is really helpful.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Are you on ADs?

Someone else mentioned it but I'll re-emphasie that self-care, especially exercise is really helpful.

I am on some Anti depressants & anti anxiety medicine... I just asked for larger dosages this week. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not so much.

Just started a 30 day conditioning/body weight exercise regiment last night - its kind of written to be a monthly routine.

Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
This is one reason I wanted to ask my pastor if we could maybe get her parents and us two (pastor, FIL, MIL and me) together for a conversation. If my in laws were a little more on the side of what I am doing - my wife and her family LOVES PLAYING CARDS.

If you could get her to do something..anything...for the 2 of you to just hang out without your pastor, FIL, MIL etc..it would be ideal. If you get all those folks involved she might think she is going to get ambushed. Alone is the key. Not with others.

I invited my WW (WW at the time)to just do whatever. Things super low pressure without any relationship talk. Like go grab a bite to eat, run some errands...whatever. I would ask and say 'it would be cool if you want to jump in but no pressure'. Sometimes she would say no, sometimes she would say yes.

The point is, you have to find a way to be able to spend a little time together where you can look great, be confident in yourself and have NO expectations of her. Have a smile on your face at all times so she knows that you have positive energy! No negativity. No pressure.

You have to play it cool and back off right now. Worked for me. Don't give her any ammo to make you the villain in her life. She already thinks you are the cause of her pain.

Be the positive force.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
If you could get her to do something..anything...for the 2 of you to just hang out without your pastor, FIL, MIL etc..it would be ideal. If you get all those folks involved she might think she is going to get ambushed. Alone is the key. Not with others.

I invited my WW (WW at the time)to just do whatever. Things super low pressure without any relationship talk. Like go grab a bite to eat, run some errands...whatever. I would ask and say 'it would be cool if you want to jump in but no pressure'. Sometimes she would say no, sometimes she would say yes.

The point is, you have to find a way to be able to spend a little time together where you can look great, be confident in yourself and have NO expectations of her. Have a smile on your face at all times so she knows that you have positive energy! No negativity. No pressure.

You have to play it cool and back off right now. Worked for me. Don't give her any ammo to make you the villain in her life. She already thinks you are the cause of her pain.

Be the positive force.

When do you guys think I should approach her again? A week? Two weeks ?(her birthday is in two weeks).
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 08:36 PM
it is tricky on timing, maybe every few days, maybe once a week.
You kind of need to read her a little bit, without pressuring or too often, yet not too spaced apart.

Like, hey i am going to the store to look for christmas decorations, wanna come?
or want to go get a hot chocolate/coffee?
what would you do if you were trying to date her?
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
If you could get her to do something..anything...for the 2 of you to just hang out without your pastor, FIL, MIL etc..it would be ideal. If you get all those folks involved she might think she is going to get ambushed. Alone is the key. Not with others.

I invited my WW (WW at the time)to just do whatever. Things super low pressure without any relationship talk. Like go grab a bite to eat, run some errands...whatever. I would ask and say 'it would be cool if you want to jump in but no pressure'. Sometimes she would say no, sometimes she would say yes.

The point is, you have to find a way to be able to spend a little time together where you can look great, be confident in yourself and have NO expectations of her. Have a smile on your face at all times so she knows that you have positive energy! No negativity. No pressure.

You have to play it cool and back off right now. Worked for me. Don't give her any ammo to make you the villain in her life. She already thinks you are the cause of her pain.

Be the positive force.

When do you guys think I should approach her again? A week? Two weeks ?(her birthday is in two weeks).

I invite my wife to spend enjoyable time with me every day, and I intend to do so every day for the rest of my life.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 09:16 PM
Thanks guys for the pointers. I will definitely pray to recognize good opportunities vs. times to back off.

FYI my talk with Dr. Bill & Joyce Harley went well, it is rebroadcasting today. Very encouraging talk (just like you all said it would be).
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/20/15 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Thanks guys for the pointers. I will definitely pray to recognize good opportunities vs. times to back off.

FYI my talk with Dr. Bill & Joyce Harley went well, it is rebroadcasting today. Very encouraging talk (just like you all said it would be).

He did misunderstand me in one instance - we have been living together for 3 years total (1 year before marriage + 2 years of marriage). Not five total years.

They are awesome people.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: My situation. - 11/21/15 07:54 PM
Dr. Harley emphasized again making the OM uncomfortable and essentially getting him to feel like a relationship with your wife isn't worth the hassle.

That being said - What have you been able to do so far on OM's side? I recalled you emailed and/or spoke to his brother. Any luck with his parents and friends?


This is going to be cryptic and I hope he is still reading - "J" please email me, I need your help.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/21/15 10:35 PM
Tracked down his address and work email last night at work. Dr. Harley also mentioned that I cannot dish out any more negative - that being said SMB has reached out to me and we are working to track down more information about him.

I saw a post on here once called something like "what you get for leaving your marriage for an affair". Maybe I can get a friend to email the OM that post.

I will need to get my computer back to really research this guy. I gave my computer to my brother, because video games were a big turn off for my wife. So while I was trying to change myself I got rid of that temptation.

Definitely agree with Dr. harley and you Mr.W. I need to lay down the pressure on OM but I need help doing it so I am not the " bad guy"
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 12:14 AM
Do not give your enemies your playbook.

In other words, do not let your wayward or OM or enemies of the marriage you are using Marriage Builders forum.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Tracked down his address and work email last night at work. Dr. Harley also mentioned that I cannot dish out any more negative - that being said SMB has reached out to me and we are working to track down more information about him.

You do understand he did not mean it was "negative" to expose the OM or confront him, right? He told you to investigate his background and one of the main purposes is to expose to his parents, family and friends and run him off.

Quote
I saw a post on here once called something like "what you get for leaving your marriage for an affair". Maybe I can get a friend to email the OM that post.

The OM won't care. He is just using your wife so this won't matter to him.

Quote
I will need to get my computer back to really research this guy. I gave my computer to my brother, because video games were a big turn off for my wife. So while I was trying to change myself I got rid of that temptation.

Absolutely, but that intel needs to be used strategically against the OM.

Quote
Definitely agree with Dr. harley and you Mr.W. I need to lay down the pressure on OM but I need help doing it so I am not the " bad guy"

I would focus on doing the right and necessary thing and not worry about garnering approval from adulterers and their enablers. Your goal is to save your marriage, not to gain approval from others. None of those people will be paying the price for a failure on your part to do everything in your power to bust up this affair. It is real easy for outsiders to judge you when it is not their ox getting gored. They are not in the fight for their marriage. I assure you they are not the ones who will pay the price for a weak exposure. YOU WILL.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Tracked down his address and work email last night at work. Dr. Harley also mentioned that I cannot dish out any more negative - that being said SMB has reached out to me and we are working to track down more information about him.

You do understand he did not mean it was "negative" to expose the OM or confront him, right? He told you to investigate his background and one of the main purposes is to expose to his parents, family and friends and run him off.

Quote
I saw a post on here once called something like "what you get for leaving your marriage for an affair". Maybe I can get a friend to email the OM that post.

The OM won't care. He is just using your wife so this won't matter to him.

Quote
I will need to get my computer back to really research this guy. I gave my computer to my brother, because video games were a big turn off for my wife. So while I was trying to change myself I got rid of that temptation.

Absolutely, but that intel needs to be used strategically against the OM.

Quote
Definitely agree with Dr. harley and you Mr.W. I need to lay down the pressure on OM but I need help doing it so I am not the " bad guy"

I would focus on doing the right and necessary thing and not worry about garnering approval from adulterers and their enablers. Your goal is to save your marriage, not to gain approval from others. None of those people will be paying the price for a failure on your part to do everything in your power to bust up this affair. It is real easy for outsiders to judge you when it is not their ox getting gored. They are not in the fight for their marriage. I assure you they are not the ones who will pay the price for a weak exposure. YOU WILL.

I think my exposure has been exceptional, especially on my wifes side of things.

I guess I misunderstood Dr. Harley - I thought if I approached the OM again, and he goes to my wife and complains now I am the bad guy again. If some of my friends I've exposed to scare off the OM, then its a different story.

I will never let her or OM know I'm on marriage builders until its recovery time.

Thumbed through our marriage pictures again tonight... She is so beautiful.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[

I think my exposure has been exceptional, especially on my wifes side of things.

And I agree but it is not complete. The only big miss here is the OM's parents, family and friends. And that is a huge miss.

Quote
I guess I misunderstood Dr. Harley - I thought if I approached the OM again, and he goes to my wife and complains now I am the bad guy again. If some of my friends I've exposed to scare off the OM, then its a different story.

I don't necessarily mean you confront him at this point, but you do need to expose him to his parents, family and friends. That is a pretty deadly exposure because if his parents know she is a married woman, it is doubtful she will be welcomed in their home. That will wreck her future plans.

Dr Harley told you to apply pressure to the OM. No one cares if the OM complains about you. He should complain about you if you are doing a good job of applying pressure to the affair. That is not a negative thing.

Quote
I will never let her or OM know I'm on marriage builders until its recovery time.

The OM should NEVER know anything about Marriage Builders. This is your personal source of guidance.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 01:42 AM
]
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[ I thought if I approached the OM again, and he goes to my wife and complains now I am the bad guy again.

You do realize how irrational that sounds, right? To be concerned that the affairees would think you are the "bad guy" is foggy thinking. Don't worry about that! She will naturally think you are the bad guy no matter what you do.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 02:13 AM
Ok well I got some huge helpers going in to help me uncover the OMs weaknesses. I just don't know how to look - but they do.

Melody - thanks for being with me through all this. I am glad you deciphered Dr. Harleys advice here for me so I understood it a little better.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 02:17 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Ok well I got some huge helpers going in to help me uncover the OMs weaknesses. I just don't know how to look - but they do.

Bravo!! hurray

Quote
Melody - thanks for being with me through all this. I am glad you deciphered Dr. Harleys advice here for me so I understood it a little better.

You are very welcome! I am glad to help someone who is smart, strategic and proactive.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/22/15 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You are very welcome! I am glad to help someone who is smart, strategic and proactive.

When its the most important thing in your life , you'd do anything right?

While I'm working on the OM exposure - I just simply am at a lose still as to how to attract my wife back... I started writing every good memory I can think of about her down. I might refine it into a nice letter and give it to her on Thanksgiving?

Also, my I missed my Pastor the other night. But I am trying to arrange an in person meeting with him. If he does reach out to her it may help a little.

I feel like I am fighting a better fight now - two fronts. Finally getting some work done on OM while keeping people in motion on my wifes side.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 01:21 AM
I'm back to crying tonight. Nobody responding to any text messages I sent out today. I feel blatantly ignored tonight. I couldn't find anything to do in time before completely collapsing in pain...
I just feel so in the dark. What if my wife is out having a blast? What if she has not given me a single thought in days? Weeks? What if everyone that knows about our situation is "OK" just letting my marriage burn?
Thanksgiving is coming up and I have no plan as to how to approach my wife again. I don't know where she is living. I don't even know if she is still actively in the affair. All I know is I am alone and miss her deeply.
Back to rock bottom tonight - sorry guys...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 02:03 AM
WC, so sorry you are in such pain tonight. hug
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 03:11 AM
A lot of us have been there and know how badly this sucks. sometimes it's just focusing on getting through the day. Hang in there - you're gonna be ok.
Posted By: Ron_C Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 06:41 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I'm back to crying tonight. Nobody responding to any text messages I sent out today. I feel blatantly ignored tonight. I couldn't find anything to do in time before completely collapsing in pain...
I just feel so in the dark. What if my wife is out having a blast? What if she has not given me a single thought in days? Weeks? What if everyone that knows about our situation is "OK" just letting my marriage burn?
Thanksgiving is coming up and I have no plan as to how to approach my wife again. I don't know where she is living. I don't even know if she is still actively in the affair. All I know is I am alone and miss her deeply.
Back to rock bottom tonight - sorry guys...


Hey man I know the feeling, as much as I live my WW she does not to have anything to do with me.
Even when she prays with the kids she prays for the family but me.

She acts like she is single and I don't exist, unless she needs me for something.

I still love her and miss her, and writing this makes me want to cry.

So so much pain it's just not fair you know, I really wish it was a bad dream.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 01:59 PM
I started writing down every good thing we've done together. I was thinking about giving it to her for thanksgiving. Title it like "100reasons I am thankful for " wifes name""

Only problem is I don't know where she lives...
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I'm back to crying tonight. Nobody responding to any text messages I sent out today. I feel blatantly ignored tonight. I couldn't find anything to do in time before completely collapsing in pain...
I just feel so in the dark. What if my wife is out having a blast? What if she has not given me a single thought in days? Weeks? What if everyone that knows about our situation is "OK" just letting my marriage burn?
Thanksgiving is coming up and I have no plan as to how to approach my wife again. I don't know where she is living. I don't even know if she is still actively in the affair. All I know is I am alone and miss her deeply.
Back to rock bottom tonight - sorry guys...

The hard reality is that your old Marriage is over. Only a new relationship with her is possible at this point.

When I was in plan A, I focused on trying to date my wife as if we had just met.

Writing down all the good things in your M and focusing on the past is only going to cause you more pain. By identifying the problems your M faced prior to this and changing is a good thing. Dwelling on the past isn't going to help you.

Focusing on what you have control over is empowering. You are in control of yourself. You are in control over the choices you make today and tomorrow.

Can you find a way to date her and woo her back??



Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 03:21 PM
My Wayward Wife only got ticked off when I had ANY reminders of all the great memories in our past together.

She replied, "That was then, this is now" and "I just don't have feelings like that for you anymore."

It's a losing cause when they are intheir Affair Fog. NOTHING from the past revives ANY good memories, NOTHING!!!

You will just windvup wasting your time and torturing yourself.

Save yourself the trouble and just do Whatever Plan A activities that you can sneek in, but you can be mopey and depressed when ever she sees you, otherwise none of the Plan A stuff will matter. She will just focus on how Your depressed attitudes is trying to make HER feel bad.

Remember. It's ALL about her and Only her right now. Your feelings don't matter at all.

LTL
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 03:30 PM
Ok so maybe I give her a different type letter - primarily focusing on things I've changed?

Any advice? I want to give her something via letter or email by Thanksgiving. One thought I had was write he a "week of our recovered marriage" outlining a day by day of how I see our recovered marriage going. One thing I thought was Friday night every week, we turn on our First Dance song and do our first dance... Things like that...

My Pastor scheduled me in for Tuesday next week (12/1) - he was very busy so I am glad he put me into his schedule.

Still thinking about when I should reapproach the OM also. I found his work email - I wanted to send him something if you guys have any templates for that. I know there is one in SAA but it was for starting PlanB I think.

Lots of thoughts this morning.
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 03:50 PM
NOPE.

No letter at all.

SHOW the changes, not tell her about them.

IF she cares, she will notice, otherwise she is too far gone.

Sorry, but there really isn't much you an do.

Make the positive changes anyways though, but For YOU. Then they will Still make you a better person.

LTL
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 03:55 PM
THERE IS NO MAGIC LETTER, PHRASE OD ANYTHING ELSE!

Quit looking for a quick term miracle. Just keep on making yourself a better person.

Use ANYTHING that she has ever complained about that had legitimacy PRIOR to her affair and workbook those things and KEEP ON working on those things daily, for the rest of your life.

Use ANY attempt once or twice a week to try to invite her to do something fun that she would like and NEVER be disappointed when she declines for a hundred times in a row.

Think of FUN dating ideas that she will have a hard time resisting, but stuff WITHOUT romantic implications at this juncture in time.

LTL
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
THERE IS NO MAGIC LETTER, PHRASE OD ANYTHING ELSE!

Quit looking for a quick term miracle. Just keep on making yourself a better person.

I meant a template for a letter to the OM. I was pretty sure I saw something like that. Did not know if that was a resource that any of you have access to. I mean, I get I need to tell him that I love my wife and I am willing to wait for her. But that is only one sentence!

If I am wrong, I can always go talk to SMB & HPB in person and see if they have any advice for an email of that nature towards the OM.

We are still working on finding more out about the OM.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 06:56 PM
I was advised to CONFRONT the OM, not to write him a letter, and I don't know why the advice to you would be any different.

I doubt the OM will care about your letter, he will probably laugh it off. This guy is a piece of crap and if you want to run him off, I think you need to show him you mean business. The last thing in the world he expects is you showing up and getting in his face somewhere.

Maybe the prerogative of the MB community has changed on this in the last year, I am surprised nobody has suggested that yet...

I couldn't stomach writing him a letter, especially in retrospect. I wouldn't do it simply for your own self respect, if for no other reason. This man does not deserve any courtesy from you, he has disrespected you in the highest way possible. Confronting OM in my situation was the best thing I did and something I will never regret. I couldn't save my marriage in the end, but I sure as hell stood my ground.
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
I doubt the OM will care about your letter, he will probably laugh it off. This guy is a piece of crap and if you want to run him off, I think you need to show him you mean business. The last thing in the world he expects is you showing up and getting in his face somewhere.

Exactly.

If you want to fight for your M...then fight for it! No letter is going to have any impact on him. He already knows exactly what he is doing.

As stated earlier, a letter to you WW will most likely have no effect. I did send my FWW a couple of emails letting her know how sorry I was for my mistakes and that I had changed (taking full accountability for my past choices).

I made it clear that I changed for myself but did commit to a happy future together if we got back together.

Reading LB's was a huge eye opener for me.

After that, it was me focusing solely on myself and my kids while trying to date her.

If you see her, you have to be strong and confident in yourself with a huge smile on your face. No groveling, crying, begging or signs of weakness.

Part of her most likely believes that there is no way your M could ever survive after what she did. She doesn't think it is possible for her to love you again.

You have to show her by your actions that love can be restored.



Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Ok so maybe I give her a different type letter - primarily focusing on things I've changed?

Any advice? I want to give her something via letter or email by Thanksgiving. One thought I had was write he a "week of our recovered marriage" outlining a day by day of how I see our recovered marriage going. One thing I thought was Friday night every week, we turn on our First Dance song and do our first dance... Things like that...

This is the portion that I was responding to you about. No letter, without substantial visibly noticed changes in your actual actions and/or behaviors that she Formerly used to complain about Prior to her affair will have any impact on her foggy thinking.

LTL
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/23/15 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
I was advised to CONFRONT the OM, not to write him a letter, and I don't know why the advice to you would be any different.

I will have to think about this. I want to confront him - but he lives many states away. So maybe call his work phone #, like a client or something. I don't know. I have time to think about it.

Whatever I do, it will be a phone call more than likely.


Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 11/24/15 02:34 AM
Here's your show.
Radio Clip of WrestlerChemist's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 01:50 AM
Melody you around?

Can you PM me? I have some exposure letters primed for the OMs family I want to run past you.

If you want. I got some good advice already on them - I just was wondering if you'd weigh in on them.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 03:17 AM
Hi WC! The PMs don't work here. Why not just post them here? Did SMB or PB look at them?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 01:10 PM
I have talked to SMB and PB - I did not want to post them because they are a little too specific then I am comfortable with posting on here, even heavily edited.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 03:35 PM
WC, are you online?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 03:45 PM
Yes I am at the BMV - I'll be back on in a few minutes
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 04:53 PM
I am trying to go nuclear on the OM's family and friends today. I feel like he has had little to no pressure yet from exposure. But I finally got my ducks in a row, I wish I could have inundated him the same time as my wife but its not a perfect world.

Nice touch that its right before turkey day, so if I miss anyone they will be gossiped to around the dinner table.

Its my last real push to completely destroy this affair... I hope it ends up being enough. Time will tell I guess.
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 07:27 PM
Good for you. Do It.

LTL
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I am trying to go nuclear on the OM's family and friends today. I feel like he has had little to no pressure yet from exposure. But I finally got my ducks in a row, I wish I could have inundated him the same time as my wife but its not a perfect world.

Nice touch that its right before turkey day, so if I miss anyone they will be gossiped to around the dinner table.

Its my last real push to completely destroy this affair... I hope it ends up being enough. Time will tell I guess.

I think you will get something out of it. Not only will cause conflict for the OM but it will RUIN any hopes your wife had of integrating into his family. She won't be able to show her face in most circles in his family.

The "story" of a wayward usually goes something like this:

"oh, my marriage with WC didn't work out and he is divorcing me. The relationship just became terribly abusive and I couldn't handle his angry tirades anymore. I think it is for the best since we are so incompatible."

Then to the OM's family the story would be something like she is divorcing her abusive husband after many years. They have been separated for some time and are just waiting for the divorce to become final.

Your exposure to the OM's family will ruin the story and impair her ability to integrate with his family. She will be too embarrassed to show her face.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 09:19 PM
Just looking at the list I have - I have the dad, 4 aunts, about 10 cousins, 1 coworker (who also knows my wife), 3-4 friends and 7-10 unknown relationship to OM (but have the last name).

I am handwriting the OM's parents because the Dad's FB looked extremely dated, and the mother does not have one.

Way I see it, about 20 people exposed right before Thanksgiving.

I heard from an unreliable source that my wife said "My husband and I are going out of town this weekend" So... She is once again getting exposure right as she gets on an airplane if that's the case - and she will have a fun thanksgiving with the OM's family I am sure.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I heard from an unreliable source that my wife said "My husband and I are going out of town this weekend" So... She is once again getting exposure right as she gets on an airplane if that's the case - and she will have a fun thanksgiving with the OM's family I am sure.

grin
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/25/15 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I heard from an unreliable source that my wife said "My husband and I are going out of town this weekend" So... She is once again getting exposure right as she gets on an airplane if that's the case - and she will have a fun thanksgiving with the OM's family I am sure.

grin

Man wouldn't it be nice if I got a phone call on Friday from her saying "Please come pick me up in *City, State* because OM did not pick me up at the airport."

I know I am being crazy BUT if that did happen, what would I do? Go get her? Leave her there for a few days? Make her find a way home?

Just wishful thinking but hey... This guy is a douche.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 03:58 AM
Hey Melody - SMB, HPB and myself just sent a ton of exposure messages out but on some we were not asked for a $1 (like there was no option at all). We confirmed that they get sent as a "Message Request" and the other person is notified - but has to accept it...

Ever run into anything like this? We used a computer not a phone.
Posted By: Nerlycrzy Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 05:17 AM
I am always on my computer when using Facebook and have sent many, many messages to family, friends, former co-workers, etc. I have never been asked to pay $1.00. My messages have been received because they do respond.

You're doing a great job, WC!!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 05:45 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Hey Melody - SMB, HPB and myself just sent a ton of exposure messages out but on some we were not asked for a $1 (like there was no option at all). We confirmed that they get sent as a "Message Request" and the other person is notified - but has to accept it...

It looks like they have a new policy because I just tested it out myself. If the person is not your friend, they send the "message request" which is awesome because the person can see it right away!

Bravo to you and SMB and HPB for the cool exposure! Great timing! smile
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 02:00 PM
If she calls, go get her. Do what you can to make Love Bank deposits.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 02:28 PM
Got this email this morning thought you'd like to head it -

Dude, get your [censored] together. Sending me an email about something like that has psycho written all over it. Stand up and be a man about it all for god sakes.

And please refrain from contacting me anymore about your drama
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 02:56 PM
Sounds like a delightful person! grin The nice thing about it is he will contact the OM, putting him on the defensive. OM will be 'splaining himself all day to folks!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Sounds like a delightful person! grin The nice thing about it is he will contact the OM, putting him on the defensive. OM will be 'splaining himself all day to folks!

That coworker is knows my wife also. So its possible they already got to him.

I can only confirm two people have read the messages but its early.

As HPB would tell me right now - "Relax"

A bonus is that she disconnected my phone line - so I won't have any phone until tomorrow...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[
That coworker is knows my wife also. So its possible they already got to him.

That presents another problem for them. If they deny, deny, deny, then when they come out in the open in the future, everyone will know it was true. So they can deny all they want, but they will have to always deny it or everyone will know the truth!
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Stand up and be a man about it all for god sakes.
A statement like that makes me wonder - precisely what does this person think "stand up and be a man" means? Sounds more like what they are saying is "roll over and be a coward".
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 04:38 PM
Beats me. But its the same as I have gotten from most of this company's employees.

I hope atleast 20% of the messages I sent get read today... That would still be a substantial amount.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Beats me. But its the same as I have gotten from most of this company's employees.

I hope atleast 20% of the messages I sent get read today... That would still be a substantial amount.

Accountability is a very old school sort of thing, many people do not get it. I got a lot of responses like this from WXW's family and family's friends early on. Enablers do not like accountability and that's who you're dealing with here.

Keep pushing on, the type of people who can be allies to your marriage and apply the right kind of pressure to your wife/OM will get this and know what to do. There's still plenty of old-school kind of people out there.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Keep pushing on, the type of people who can be allies to your marriage and apply the right kind of pressure to your wife/OM will get this and know what to do. There's still plenty of old-school kind of people out there.

I have to send the OMs parents via snail mail but I'm writing those letters tonight and the should get there monday - Tuesday... Its the best I can get to them.
Posted By: Nerlycrzy Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 10:07 PM
WC,

You're doing a great job. Don't let those negative responses to your emails bother you. Some people have to actually experience infidelity themselves before they can appreciate the devastating repercussions.

Try to have a nice holiday. There are better days ahead!!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/26/15 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Nerlycrzy
WC,

You're doing a great job. Don't let those negative responses to your emails bother you. Some people have to actually experience infidelity themselves before they can appreciate the devastating repercussions.

Try to have a nice holiday. There are better days ahead!!

I was telling SMB I wish I got like 15 more of those emails... I don't even care about the negativity. too be honest - I want to come across as a psycho.

So I hope he says that to his buddy POSOM at work next time they see each other.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/27/15 08:41 PM
I just don't know what to do.

I am just sitting here at the house missing her again. I feel like a psychopath... Thinking about her and all the things I love about her.

I don't have anyone to talk to because she disconnected my phone. And I can't get it turned back on because she won't release the number off her account... Ugh.

I am so tired - like physically I want to just sleep. But that's not attractive to her...

Sometimes I just only feel like I have this thread. And you guys literally are saving my life. At least once already...
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 11/27/15 09:09 PM
Can you afford a pay as you go phone until you get the phone figured out?
Posted By: living_well Re: My situation. - 11/27/15 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I don't have anyone to talk to because she disconnected my phone. And I can't get it turned back on because she won't release the number off her account... Ugh.


What a moo.

If you have internet at home, you can use your computer to make voice calls over Skype. I prefer (and use) a VoIP service that hangs off your route and cost less than $10 a month for an all you can eat. They give you a local number, you can use a fixed line phone with them and you get free voicemail and caller ID. Should be able to set yourself up with something almost instantly.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/27/15 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I am so tired - like physically I want to just sleep. But that's not attractive to her...

Sometimes I just only feel like I have this thread. And you guys literally are saving my life. At least once already...

It might be an adernaline crash due to your exposure yesterday. I experienced this after very stressful events like court dates - I would have absolutely no energy the next day. It's ok to let yourself relax.

It's important to remind yourself that your W is WW, she is not the woman you married. She needs to give permission to allow the phones to be separated. That's just not going to work and you can't roll over when she bullies you like that. Have you asked your atty? I am sure a call to her atty should solve this pretty quickly. You can't not have your phone at these times when you need support from your family and friends.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 11/27/15 10:34 PM

Can you send her an email telling her that if she won't separate the lines that she will be responsible for your old line and that you are opening a new account?

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/27/15 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
It might be an adernaline crash due to your exposure yesterday. I experienced this after very stressful events like court dates - I would have absolutely no energy the next day. It's ok to let yourself relax.

It's important to remind yourself that your W is WW, she is not the woman you married. She needs to give permission to allow the phones to be separated. That's just not going to work and you can't roll over when she bullies you like that. Have you asked your atty? I am sure a call to her atty should solve this pretty quickly. You can't not have your phone at these times when you need support from your family and friends.

I should have called my atty. Ill send him an email now but he probably is put of the office until Monday. That's a good idea thanks SuzieQ. I need to keep my number because its the one I put on the footer of all my exposure messages etc.

I wish I knew more about her world but I guess I am just going to have to live with that darkness.

All I can do is assume that statistically affairs end up dead and she will eventually be miserable... She may already be miserable and too stubborn to admit it. She may be having a good ol time and my Exposure did nothing...

Another thing that's got me rattled is now I'm starting to have some sexual frustrations... That's new to this whole experience...

Thoughts ugh...
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/27/15 11:55 PM
I am going to send her this email -

*wife*,

Please tell Verizon that you allow me to assume liability of my phone number so I can set up my own account with this number.

I love you and am still waiting for the opportunity to build a passionate marriage with you.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/28/15 06:34 PM
If Michigan beats Ohio State today - this will officially be the worst year of my life...

Got to have a sense of humor right?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 11/28/15 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
If Michigan beats Ohio State today - this will officially be the worst year of my life...

Got to have a sense of humor right?
Well at least OSU is winning at half time.
Posted By: Woundednotbroken Re: My situation. - 11/29/15 04:14 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
If Michigan beats Ohio State today - this will officially be the worst year of my life...

Got to have a sense of humor right?


Well hopefully the stellar win today is a good omen of things to come! Go Bucks! O-
H!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/29/15 10:26 PM
First birthday in 8 years without my wife /:

My brother took me to a Bengals game and all I could think about was her... Ugh. I know its typical BH stuff. I just miss the companionship of her. Just knowing she's in the other room, or being able to text her... Its going to be a long holiday season.

Her birthday is Saturday.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/30/15 02:59 PM
SO I finally am meeting our pastor in person tomorrow morning. Anything specifically you guys think I should address?

As of now I just was going to tell him whats going on - my wife is engaged in an affair, shes trying to divorce me, I still love her and want the marriage to work, I have exposed to her friends, family and workplace and I have lost the support of the ILs (who he knows personally/next door neighbors). I was going to end our conversation by asking him if they need any volunteers in any areas specifically so I can get more involved in our church. He said he wanted to get her contact information to so he could try to reach out to her if given the opportunity.


The OM's mother should be receiving my hand written letter today. Hopefully she turns out to be an asset not a liability. Also, this morning the rest of his coworkers I exposed to (about 4 more of them) should be receiving/reading their emails. I got an email to the VP of Human Relations and she sent me back a pretty non threatening "I'll look into the issue you presented" email, but at least she saw it.

Sorry if I seem like I am on here constantly - I just do not have any people that really understand that I can talk to.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/30/15 04:46 PM
And I got my phone turned on laugh
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 11/30/15 05:34 PM
My pastor was very interested in Marriage Builders, looked into Surviving an Affair and reached out to my ex, but some do not even attempt to understand it. Hopefully you can explain to your pastor that exposure has been proven to be the most effective tool for ending affairs, and hopefully he will be open to learning.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 11/30/15 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
My pastor was very interested in Marriage Builders, looked into Surviving an Affair and reached out to my ex, but some do not even attempt to understand it. Hopefully you can explain to your pastor that exposure has been proven to be the most effective tool for ending affairs, and hopefully he will be open to learning.

Should I maybe let him listen to my radio talk with Dr. Bill & Joyce? I'll get a feel where he stands as far as time he wants to commit to this. He did mention that "her career is not as important as your marriage" earlier to me, establishing that he was very much OK with my workplace exposure.
I may not mention MarriageBuilders by name - in case he talks to my ILs or worse my wife and tells her about it. I'll just talk about the concepts with him.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/01/15 04:43 PM
Talk went well with my Pastor. He said he called her and got a voicemail so he told me she probably will not call back. I said do not worry about it.

Did not even mention the in Laws. He was very supportive. I am glad we talked. SMB warned me not to have an expectation that "he was going to make a substantial difference." So I did not. I still feel good about the talk.

So... Back to the waiting. Going to be a long holiday season.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/01/15 06:55 PM
My pastor called my ex and sent her an e-mail. Both went unanswered. Your wife isn't going to call him back. She knows what she's doing is wrong, even if she won't admit it. The holidays are rough. Hang in there. This situation is not permanent.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/01/15 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
My pastor called my ex and sent her an e-mail. Both went unanswered. Your wife isn't going to call him back. She knows what she's doing is wrong, even if she won't admit it. The holidays are rough. Hang in there. This situation is not permanent.

Thanks nmwb77. I might suggest to him that he send her an email if he is interested.

Just need to get to the point where I realize - its all out of my control now.

Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/01/15 09:57 PM
You're exactly right. It's out of your hands. You have to give it over to God now.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 01:53 AM
WC,

If you are like many of us, you are encountering some people around you who do not think exposure was the "right" thing to do. For one, it is the most effective way of ending affairs as seen on this board over and over and over again....but there's another good argument for it.

It's very much a Biblical principle. It pretty much follows right down the road laid out by Christ himself in Matthew 18 about when someone sins against you.

I heard all sorts of nonsense offered up as the more "Godly" way of handling the situation from my ex in-laws and their friends who were angry about exposure. Stick to your guns. You did the right thing.

Sorry this is all so rough, I went through it a year ago and it was hard on me too.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
My pastor called my ex and sent her an e-mail. Both went unanswered. Your wife isn't going to call him back.

I agree with this, unfortunately.

My ex and her OM both changed their phone numbers after I exposed to get away from the pressure. Infidelity is a cowardly thing to do for both parties involved and most people who do it are afraid to face consequences.
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 01:55 PM

Have you been able to invite her to do some things with you?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 02:46 PM
I know she is not going to respond to the pastor's voicemail. I am just glad that he agrees with what I've done. That meeting was more for me... and at the very least, she knows he knows.


Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Have you been able to invite her to do some things with you?

No.

I do not know where she is living. She has not spoke to me in any fashion since 11-16 (email about the finances). I have been told that I won't really be able to approach her for a while. She has made exactly no effort to see me, talk to me, etc. And that is the cold hard facts I need to live with for a while. That is why this whole process is ripping me apart... I just need to wait I guess.

Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
No.

I do not know where she is living. She has not spoke to me in any fashion since 11-16 (email about the finances). I have been told that I won't really be able to approach her for a while. She has made exactly no effort to see me, talk to me, etc. And that is the cold hard facts I need to live with for a while. That is why this whole process is ripping me apart... I just need to wait I guess.

Why would you wait? It is your wife. If you want this M to survive you have to PURSUE her.

If it were me, I would track her down, be as cool as possible..not talk about the relationship and engage her in conversation.


Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 03:31 PM

Maybe just start by emailing her something interesting..

"hey, ran across this article today and thought it was funny"..send it to her.

"did you hear about (.....)?? thought it was cool"

ENGAGE her!!
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 05:34 PM
I agree with 20Year. You should do some snooping and at least try to locate her. It's an important thing for you to know if you are going to try any Plan A.

If you locate her I wouldn't just surprise her at wherever she is living. The lack of contact makes me think she is pretty hostile towards you right now and you don't want to give her any ammo for a restraining order.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
I agree with 20Year. You should do some snooping and at least try to locate her. It's an important thing for you to know if you are going to try any Plan A.

If you locate her I wouldn't just surprise her at wherever she is living. The lack of contact makes me think she is pretty hostile towards you right now and you don't want to give her any ammo for a restraining order.

The hostility is exactly why I have been advised to wait a little bit. But I am planning on doing something this weekend, I might just send her an invitation via text or email.
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
The hostility is exactly why I have been advised to wait a little bit. But I am planning on doing something this weekend, I might just send her an invitation via text or email.

Advised by whom?

Why are you pausing? You did all the exposure, now you are just sitting back. Doesn't make sense to me.

There are always reasons for A's. What were they and how can you correct them so it doesn't happen in the future. Let her know your intentions.

Put yourself in her shoes. You exposed, now you are not pursuing her. What is she to think.

Do you expect her to just run back into your arms? It isn't going to happen.

If you are going to fight...then fight! Stop being so sheepish and step up the plate and go get what you want!! If it doesn't work, so be it. At least you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that you gave it your all.





Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 06:41 PM
Woman respect confidence in a man. Someone who is sure of himself. Someone who knows what he wants and goes and gets it.

I know how hard it is when you have been kicked down like this..believe me I know. However, this is not the time to sit back on your hands.

Do you work out? What are you doing to feel good about yourself?

Do some pushups, build yourself back up! Start looking a feeling great about yourself and go get her!

I know what it takes to win back a WW and you are not doing it my man...It is killing me to see you sit back like this and let it all slip away.
Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
The hostility is exactly why I have been advised to wait a little bit. But I am planning on doing something this weekend, I might just send her an invitation via text or email.

You can break the ice by sending her little notes like suggested earlier. Then when the time is right invite her.

You could send her flowers...whatever. Be creative. You have to be in the game to Plan A. Right now you are on the sidelines and not even participating.

So what if she says no to you or doesn't reply. If you want to win her back, you are going to have to do that..Win her back by ACTIONS.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Advised by whom?

By me.

Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 08:32 PM
Dr. H told WC that at this point, he is basically waiting for the OM to make a mistake.

WC needs to be patient.

Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/02/15 11:00 PM

Hi SMB!! smile

Originally Posted by sexymamabear
Dr. H told WC that at this point, he is basically waiting for the OM to make a mistake.

WC needs to be patient.
Yes. I think he also told WC to be careful in order to avoid having his WW get an RO - because she is so hostile at this point. He did not tell WC to pursue/woo her right now.

WC, don't stress yourself out thinking that you could win your WW back by meeting her needs right now. That's kind of a misapplication of Plan A. It doesn't really work while the WS is in the throes of an affair. I think you have adequately demonstrated to her that you are willing to work on any complaints she had about the marriage and presented yourself as the better choice but she is too fogged out to see it right now.

Like most cake-eating waywards, when she is not getting enough needs met by the OM, she will probably give you an opportunity to meet some of hers again. So definitely agree with the advice to be patient.
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Hi SMB!! smile

hug
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 11:34 AM
Thought you'd all like to hear that I got an email from an HR regional manager that stated - "we have taken all steps deemed necessary" and that "we request you cease communication with any *company*
employee."
Its from the OMs region and not my wifes...so I suppose some exposure got him stirred up.
Posted By: WalkTheWalk Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Thought you'd all like to hear that I got an email from an HR regional manager that stated - "we have taken all steps deemed necessary" and that "we request you cease communication with any *company*
employee."
Its from the OMs region and not my wifes...so I suppose some exposure got him stirred up.


Glad they acknowledged your contact, but this sounds like a little bit off an attempt to dismiss you. That dismissal irritates me, and I'm not even in the situation. I might respond something like this:
Dear Company HR Manager,
Thank you for your reply and your attention to this matter. I appreciate that you are taking measures deemed necessary. If I was an HR representative of Company, I would also take action to ensure that employees were not misusing company resources to further their personal relationships, and also take those steps to protect the company from legal liabilities associated with workplace based relationships. My research has shown that inappropriate relationships (affairs) tend to be volatile in nature and expose the company to legal actions based on allegations of either of the parties to these relationships.

Do you mind sharing with me what steps have been taken by your organization? I would also appreciate your help in understanding your request that I cease communication with any company employee. Have you or anyone else received complaints that my communications were inappropriate? Or do you perhaps consider the matter closed despite the inappropriate relationship continuing? I do have valid reasons for communication with your company since its resources are being used for behaviors detrimental to my family. And like it or not, as employees of Company, WW and POSOM represent your company even as they conduct themselves in their private lives. Brian J. Dunn, Harry Stonecipher, and Mark Hurd are all examples that happened to make national news.

Once again, thank you for your attention to this matter and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,
WC

Probably still dismiss you but at least doing so will erode their ability to say they did *everything* they could if they happen to operate in a state that still allows for alienation of affection suits. My ExWW and her POSOM worked for a company based in North Carolina. NC still allows for these suits.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 04:21 PM
I agree keep the pressure on that company, especially in your wayward region. You might think of contacting an attorney to submit a letter.
Not knowing your state, the A of A lawsuit could be a strategy.
Having your attorney put them on notice to about retention of records for upcoming divorce action and potential witnesses could be a strategy.
All things just to get the company uncomfortable and take real action.
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 05:13 PM
Given this company has "regions" I would figure out who the highest ranking HR person or Ethics & Compliance person is and send a letter to them.

Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 06:09 PM
I find the subtle attempt to deny you your first amendment rights annoying. Who are they to say you may not contact any of their employees ?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 06:25 PM
I agree with everyone here. I sent a response back with the close advice of Mr. Wondering on word choice.

Last night I spoke to HerPapaBear in person (he was nice enough to come over to my house). We talked about moving forward. We talked about getting together a schedule that makes me into an attractive man. My primary areas of focus were:

1) My job - scheduling more overtime to get caught up & ahead. If we get to recovery, I will need to be ahead at work so I can spend a lot more time dedicated to my marriage's recovery

2) Church - scheduling more volunteering activities and church outreach Just makes me a better human being in general

3) Wrestling - I coached wrestling a while back, I could try to get involved with that again. something fun and keeps me physically active

4) Friends - scheduling a few hours a week to spend time with friends. Not to complain or talk about my wife, but just to have social interaction with other people

5) Family - scheduling a few hours a week to spend time with family. Similar as friends, but spending time with family a few times a week

HPB also recommended compiling a budget and planning my bill cycles - deciding what I need to pay (utilities, student loans) vs. what I can just leave on her who took all our savings (mortgage, car payments, etc.) He called it using the stick.

Our talk left me encouraged. That's where I am at today. Trying to get routine oriented. Anybody have anything additional to add ?
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My situation. - 12/03/15 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
We talked about getting together a schedule that makes me into an attractive man.


WC, I hope you can turn your focus to what is good and right for you, and not so much about being an attractive man for the sole goal of winning you wife back. You will naturally be an attractive guy by doing things that create a good life for you and that take good care of you mentally, spiritually, and physically. Your wife may decide to never give you a second look again (sorry), no matter how attractive you make yourself. But you will gradually come out of this dark time happy and healthy and ready to have a great life regardless because of doing what is good for you right now.

But if your focus is all about being attractive to get her back, then what happens if she doesn't come back? You crash and burn?

Please remember, that you didn't lose your wife because you were unattractive. She chose to step out of her marriage because of her boundaries, which were already loose before this current affair. Yes, there are things that you should do differently if you recover your marriage; but remember that you were practically newlyweds and your wife was already seeking out attention from other guys (plural intended).

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 08:10 AM
Had a cousin of OM reach out to me from exposure. He just sent me a picture of a screenshot of my divorce case which is publicly on my county's court website.

He said "Stop sending my family your bullsh**. You come off as a psychopath"

I told him "Tell your cousin to stop having an affair with my wife... He comes off as someone with zero morals"

He responded with "You don't know my family, so please leave them out of this. Relationships fail. Everything will get better over time. It might hurt today,but look towards the future, no need to live in the past. If she doesn't want to be with you that is her choice. I know it sucks because I've lived it. Please stop sending every family member you find on facebook the same message"

I closed the conversation with "I am sorry you felt your best move was to give up on your wife/girlfriend and accept your failed relationship, I am not someone who is just going to silently allow my wife to continue this affair. Like I mentioned previously, we were very much in love not that long ago. Quit playing "damage control" for OM and stand up for some decent character and ask him to end the affair instead. If I realize at a larger date I would like advise as to how to "give up" or quit on my wife, I will be sure to take you up on that phone call as you seem to know first hand...since we are sharing legal papers I'll be sure to let you be the first one to read OM's answers to my 1st set of interrogatories and the transcripts from his deposition. Lastly, you don't know my family either - so ask OM to get out of it."


I think I handled it well, this is just the highlights. I brought up that we are not divorced, the case is just started. I detailed that I am declining that we are "incompatible." It appears the OM is in defensive mode. I hope I am adding fuel to his flame and eventually he will slip up with my wife.

I have come a long way. This kind of conversation would have really had me rattled a few weeks ago. You guys have prepared me in a way that helps me deal with this. It felt natural and I was able to quickly reply and I did not lose any sleep over it. I am posting this because I wanted you all to get some good reading material laugh
Posted By: sexymamabear Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 01:34 PM
EXCELLENT JOB, WC!!!!

I am very proud of you.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 01:37 PM
That was a totally Cool response.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:09 PM
My wife broke a window today to get in the house. She took a lot more of her stuff, I would say that's just about everything she owns now. She left the rooms a real disaster. She also left the certificate of marriage and abstract of marriage on the kitchen table.

I guess exposure has got to her... I am sure this is not too crazy in terms of waywards.
Posted By: living_well Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My wife broke a window today to get in the house. She took a lot more of her stuff, I would say that's just about everything she owns now.


My ex did that. The good news is that taking all her stuff is considered moving out in the eyes of the law. I hope you reported the break in to the police.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:28 PM
Got nothing to report - its her house.
Posted By: Bellevue Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:34 PM
Could OM fake an email from the company to get you to back off?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Bellevue
Could OM fake an email from the company to get you to back off?

What do you mean?
Posted By: Bellevue Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:39 PM
I think it's called setting up a spoof account. Since it came from OM's area, just putting it out there.
Did anything come from WW's office?
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Got nothing to report - its her house.

Did you call to at least see? You two are separated, she is not living there...you have lawyers and she broke in and messed the place up. I would file a report if they will take one.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Had a cousin of OM reach out to me from exposure. He just sent me a picture of a screenshot of my divorce case which is publicly on my county's court website.

He said "Stop sending my family your bullsh**. You come off as a psychopath"

I told him "Tell your cousin to stop having an affair with my wife... He comes off as someone with zero morals"

He responded with "You don't know my family, so please leave them out of this. Relationships fail. Everything will get better over time. It might hurt today,but look towards the future, no need to live in the past. If she doesn't want to be with you that is her choice. I know it sucks because I've lived it. Please stop sending every family member you find on facebook the same message"

I closed the conversation with "I am sorry you felt your best move was to give up on your wife/girlfriend and accept your failed relationship, I am not someone who is just going to silently allow my wife to continue this affair. Like I mentioned previously, we were very much in love not that long ago. Quit playing "damage control" for OM and stand up for some decent character and ask him to end the affair instead. If I realize at a larger date I would like advise as to how to "give up" or quit on my wife, I will be sure to take you up on that phone call as you seem to know first hand...since we are sharing legal papers I'll be sure to let you be the first one to read OM's answers to my 1st set of interrogatories and the transcripts from his deposition. Lastly, you don't know my family either - so ask OM to get out of it."


I think I handled it well, this is just the highlights. I brought up that we are not divorced, the case is just started. I detailed that I am declining that we are "incompatible." It appears the OM is in defensive mode. I hope I am adding fuel to his flame and eventually he will slip up with my wife.

I have come a long way. This kind of conversation would have really had me rattled a few weeks ago. You guys have prepared me in a way that helps me deal with this. It felt natural and I was able to quickly reply and I did not lose any sleep over it. I am posting this because I wanted you all to get some good reading material laugh

Great response, WC.

APs and people who act as enablers of APs are usually waywards themselves or otherwise not very knowledgeable as to how successful marriages work. This is a very typical response from these types of losers and you handled it excellently.

I'd echo the others who have encouraged you to focus on your own well-being. Your wife may eventually come around but the path she's put herself on really takes her out of the equation for the time being.

You can start building on your own future right now and if she decides to join you, you are prepared with the right game plan (MB) to make that an awesome future for the both of you. But if not, you don't have to wait for the dust here to settle. Positive changes build positive momentum and positive momentum will carry you through this and ensure that you come out of this stronger and smarter than you were before.

The emotional fallout may be less intense and more sporadic than it was a few months ago but it's not going to disappear for a while. Having that positive momentum and changes to look back upon will disarm it when it creeps up on you in the coming months, no matter what happens here.

Keep up the good work.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by sexymamabear
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
We talked about getting together a schedule that makes me into an attractive man.


WC, I hope you can turn your focus to what is good and right for you, and not so much about being an attractive man for the sole goal of winning you wife back. You will naturally be an attractive guy by doing things that create a good life for you and that take good care of you mentally, spiritually, and physically. Your wife may decide to never give you a second look again (sorry), no matter how attractive you make yourself. But you will gradually come out of this dark time happy and healthy and ready to have a great life regardless because of doing what is good for you right now.

But if your focus is all about being attractive to get her back, then what happens if she doesn't come back? You crash and burn?

Please remember, that you didn't lose your wife because you were unattractive. She chose to step out of her marriage because of her boundaries, which were already loose before this current affair. Yes, there are things that you should do differently if you recover your marriage; but remember that you were practically newlyweds and your wife was already seeking out attention from other guys (plural intended).

You are very lucky to have SMB and HPB in your corner.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 10:14 PM
I agree with Ax. You're doing great.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by sexymamabear
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
We talked about getting together a schedule that makes me into an attractive man.


WC, I hope you can turn your focus to what is good and right for you, and not so much about being an attractive man for the sole goal of winning you wife back. You will naturally be an attractive guy by doing things that create a good life for you and that take good care of you mentally, spiritually, and physically. Your wife may decide to never give you a second look again (sorry), no matter how attractive you make yourself. But you will gradually come out of this dark time happy and healthy and ready to have a great life regardless because of doing what is good for you right now.

But if your focus is all about being attractive to get her back, then what happens if she doesn't come back? You crash and burn?

Please remember, that you didn't lose your wife because you were unattractive. She chose to step out of her marriage because of her boundaries, which were already loose before this current affair. Yes, there are things that you should do differently if you recover your marriage; but remember that you were practically newlyweds and your wife was already seeking out attention from other guys (plural intended).

You are very lucky to have SMB and HPB in your corner.

Ironically my wife is SMB and HPB's cousin ... So if I never knew my wife - its possible I wouldn't have their support here when my wife went wayward...

Really funny God. smile lol.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 11:40 PM
I called the police. Officer came out and said I can't file anything because we are married. However, there is an official record of the break in.

The cop informed me of a funny thing - she was at the police station today asking for harassment charges against me on the grounds that I am "emailing people at her work." I told the offic[u][/u]er that its legal and I am very much against adultery. He said right now (the copies of the emails she provided) are pretty harmless but he said I should "stop doing that, she made her decision...it doesn't affect your religion, it makes you look bad, I am just advising you so you don't face civil litigations...blah"

HOWEVER so I tried to innocently pry out which emails she was providing. Hoping it was a particular one I started talking about it, I said "I talked to an HR manager not to long ago, roughly two days...He said I should only contact him, which I've done."

He said, "Ah yah that was one, I saw what the HR rep sent you and your response." WHICH means she saw my response. smile

I can only imagine the conversations they are having...


Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/04/15 11:49 PM
It's very strange to me that she had a copy of HR manager's email.

Makes me wonder if OM works in IT at this company, if said manager is aware that their subordinates have copies of their correspondence with you, and why they would provide that to your WW.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/05/15 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
It's very strange to me that she had a copy of HR manager's email.

Makes me wonder if OM works in IT at this company, if said manager is aware that their subordinates have copies of their correspondence with you, and why they would provide that to your WW.

I bcc'd OM on my HR emails. He doesn't know that the HR knows OM has the emails in his inbox. However, it is hilarious that OM sent it to her.

I know exactly everything about the OMs job position he is not in IT.
Posted By: WalkTheWalk Re: My situation. - 12/05/15 01:17 AM
Love your response.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/05/15 04:46 AM
So, back to exhausted. What an adrenaline rush today was. I am going to send her an extremely brief Happy birthday email tomorrow. Nothing that could be misconstrued as harassing. I am going to lay low for a little while, next activity is going to be get her a Christmas present - which will not be easy (I do not know this person anymore). Call me crazy, but I still love her somehow after all this... I guess until she approaches me or something like today happens again, I am going to use this thread to vent about how I feel about her occasionally and ask advice about schedules...

So, what does a normal morning look like for you guys? I started Google searching "successful daily routines." I started making some checklists (remember I am checklist oriented). I intend to have something concrete to start on Monday...

Really I am trying to put a ton of specificity into the morning routine, since most of the day will be WORK.

I don't know, just brainstorming and I am interested in what you guys do or have found success with.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 12/05/15 02:25 PM
Your emails have hit adultery land hard, you are doing nothing wrong, so don't listen to mr. ignorant police officer. (what does he know about civil suits, and giving you "legal" advice is above his pay grade).
Keep up the pressure on the workplace, consult an attorney about the workplace (a well written letter from your attorney could spark them to say, OM/WW are not worth it)

She has officially moved out, that is a legal lever you can use in the future if needed.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/05/15 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
Your emails have hit adultery land hard, you are doing nothing wrong, so don't listen to mr. ignorant police officer. (what does he know about civil suits, and giving you "legal" advice is above his pay grade).
Keep up the pressure on the workplace, consult an attorney about the workplace (a well written letter from your attorney could spark them to say, OM/WW are not worth it)

She has officially moved out, that is a legal lever you can use in the future if needed.

I can't really afford having the attorney do any extra work. Ohio does not have any AoA laws so it may not even be worth it.

You are right about one thing though... I hit adultery land hard. As hard as I could, and I need to be content with that. I'm in for a long December.

Happy birthday mrs. Wrestler Chemist frown
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/05/15 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
So, back to exhausted. What an adrenaline rush today was. I am going to send her an extremely brief Happy birthday email tomorrow. Nothing that could be misconstrued as harassing. I am going to lay low for a little while, next activity is going to be get her a Christmas present - which will not be easy (I do not know this person anymore). Call me crazy, but I still love her somehow after all this... I guess until she approaches me or something like today happens again, I am going to use this thread to vent about how I feel about her occasionally and ask advice about schedules...

So, what does a normal morning look like for you guys? I started Google searching "successful daily routines." I started making some checklists (remember I am checklist oriented). I intend to have something concrete to start on Monday...

Really I am trying to put a ton of specificity into the morning routine, since most of the day will be WORK.

I don't know, just brainstorming and I am interested in what you guys do or have found success with.

Christmas gift sounds like a good idea.

I start my days with a daily Bible reading/devo time 6:00-6:45 AM. Then I go to my gym and spend about an hour lifting weights M-F 7-8 AM. I have some flexibility at my work with regards to when I show up, so it's usually between 8:30-9 AM.

Spiritual growth/discipline and physical fitness is important to me so that morning routine has been very helpful to me.

What are some goals you've set for yourself that you can work on? You'd want to (if possible) structure your morning around those.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/05/15 10:20 PM
I have a long commute from 5-6am. I Use the time to pray, listen to audible books including my current Bible section, and to call family. From 6-7, put out fires. From 7-8, I like to read a current article to keep up in my field while I eat breakfast at work.

Until recently, I started days off with a cup of coffee, bible reading, then walking the dog. Then other reading and household stuff.
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 12/06/15 01:53 AM
Ohio does NOT recognize AoA lawsuits....from as far back as when I was in law school there in the previous millenia.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/06/15 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
Ohio does NOT recognize AoA lawsuits....from as far back as when I was in law school there in the previous millenia.

I know. That's why I am not getting my attorney involved against the company. 1) cant afford 2) nothing to go on really 3) see #1
I was looking at AoA law in general and just had the thought that even if OHIO recognized them, I probably still could not afford going through with it. Thanks Brits for the confirmation though on AoA in OH.

Originally Posted by axslinger85
I start my days with a daily Bible reading/devo time 6:00-6:45 AM. Then I go to my gym and spend about an hour lifting weights M-F 7-8 AM. I have some flexibility at my work with regards to when I show up, so it's usually between 8:30-9 AM.

Spiritual growth/discipline and physical fitness is important to me so that morning routine has been very helpful to me.

What are some goals you've set for yourself that you can work on? You'd want to (if possible) structure your morning around those.

Originally Posted by apples123
I have a long commute from 5-6am. I Use the time to pray, listen to audible books including my current Bible section, and to call family. From 6-7, put out fires. From 7-8, I like to read a current article to keep up in my field while I eat breakfast at work.

Until recently, I started days off with a cup of coffee, bible reading, then walking the dog. Then other reading and household stuff.

Based on what you guys have here, and what I had come up with on my own first - I refined my morning to look like this:
Wake up 645am, Workout until 730am, Shower, Breakfast and Bible reading at 750, Depart for work at 815 and arrive and start work at 830am.

My evening has been made to look like this: Take dogs for a walk 815pm, Make a list of tasks needing completed the next day 845pm, Journal or Reading a Book 9pm, Silence & Prayer 945pm, Go to sleep 10pm.

I guess my goals are to be physically healthy - I might look into some 5k runs - maybe someday I try a half marathon? I just want to be proud of how I look.
Obviously my biggest goal is to remain as spiritually active as I am due to this circumstance even when the circumstances change. I also want to find my niche in the church body. I will have to ask about volunteer activities before I find what God is calling me to do.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/07/15 05:41 AM
WC,

I think your plan is awesome. Stick to your guns and stay positive. God will give you strength through this process as you lean on Him. You've got the right outlook here.

Don't be afraid to make fine tuning adjustments as you find your limits...you've just been through what have probably been the worst days and weeks of your life (Dr. Harley says the emotional trauma from infidelity is worse than even rape).

Getting your footing again can be interesting.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/07/15 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
WC,

I think your plan is awesome. Stick to your guns and stay positive. God will give you strength through this process as you lean on Him. You've got the right outlook here.

Don't be afraid to make fine tuning adjustments as you find your limits...you've just been through what have probably been the worst days and weeks of your life (Dr. Harley says the emotional trauma from infidelity is worse than even rape).

Getting your footing again can be interesting.

Just when I think I am getting my footing back, something else happens and rattles me all over.

My cousin was killed in a car accident this weekend. I just wanted to have my wife to comfort me and talk to, but I had no one...

I did start my routine today and was successful at upholding all my tasks I wanted to complete.
Posted By: Ron_C Re: My situation. - 12/07/15 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by axslinger85
WC,

I think your plan is awesome. Stick to your guns and stay positive. God will give you strength through this process as you lean on Him. You've got the right outlook here.

Don't be afraid to make fine tuning adjustments as you find your limits...you've just been through what have probably been the worst days and weeks of your life (Dr. Harley says the emotional trauma from infidelity is worse than even rape).

Getting your footing again can be interesting.

Just when I think I am getting my footing back, something else happens and rattles me all over.

My cousin was killed in a car accident this weekend. I just wanted to have my wife to comfort me and talk to, but I had no one...

I did start my routine today and was successful at upholding all my tasks I wanted to complete.

I am sorry for your loss. Sometimes times I feel life knocked me to the ground and when I start to get back up in get knocked down again.
Just keep up the good work, it will pay off in the end.
Keep praying
Posted By: Bellevue Re: My situation. - 12/07/15 06:26 PM
WC, I'm so sorry to read about the death of your cousin. Please stay strong in your faith, it will help you get through your grief.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/07/15 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by Ron_C
I am sorry for your loss. Sometimes times I feel life knocked me to the ground and when I start to get back up in get knocked down again.
Just keep up the good work, it will pay off in the end.
Keep praying

Originally Posted by Bellevue
WC, I'm so sorry to read about the death of your cousin. Please stay strong in your faith, it will help you get through your grief.

Thanks guys for the support. My cousin's death was unfortunate. I think my WW just made LB withdrawals and I did not even realize it, I really would have liked to have her around for this news - especially later this week for the viewing, etc.

On the flip side, I have kept my schedule today. I know its only one day so far but I have tomorrow mostly planned out. I am using an app that works by "Stacking" tasks rather than using an actual time - so you literally have to plan every every minute of an entire day (I wanted to make sure I was emphasizing on myself the value of planning every task, to become extra regimented).

Hanging in there...work is going better today, I had been struggling tremendously lately to keep my performance up - the schedule is helping I think, and will help in the future as well.

thanks guys/gals
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 02:17 AM
What a kick in the gut. Sorry to hear about your cousin WC. I can completely understand how your wife's absence in this time is making LB withdrawals. It's very cold blooded of her.

The tasks idea is right on. A lot of successful people I've read swear by lists rather than schedules because of the importance of goal-orientation. So many good productivity apps these days, and many are free. Good stuff.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 02:40 AM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
What a kick in the gut. Sorry to hear about your cousin WC. I can completely understand how your wife's absence in this time is making LB withdrawals. It's very cold blooded of her.

I doubt she knows about my cousin. I am upset she's not her, but maybe not so much as to say cold blooded...

Yah I read a lot of similar articles ax. I'm getting ready to close out my night with journaling and silence and prayer...

Have a good evening guys!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 04:03 AM
Sorry WC. pray
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 03:12 PM
This morning is off to a good start - got a call from the police department in OMs area. The officer said that I am going to be on the "butt end of harassment charges" soon. She said "I cannot contact OM, OM's family or OM's employer anymore."

I said "If OM can speak on behalf of his family, I am going to go to my local police and ask he stop talking to my wife."

Flustered she said "No you can't do that. None of his family wants to talk to you."

I said "Some of them do, I have been talking to some of them."

She said "I am just warning you to stop before you face harassment charges, I believe his employer said to stop talking to employees from his company"

"His employer said to only talk to one representative moving forward, which I have done, and plan to keep doing."

I said "send me the exact law because I have done exactly zero threatening."

She was a real piece of work and said "its no ones business to know that. You and your wife have a problem, you get it figured out."

"No ma'am, my wife, OM and I have a problem, and we are getting it figured out."

.... blah blah. I am waiting on her email soon. She was saying that my hand written letter to the mother was too much, my emails to the coworkers was over the top and lastly the calls (which I have made none?) to the family was too much...

I just closed the conversation with "Everyone who needs to know, now knows. The higher ups at his company know - the vice president of human relations knows, all his family knows... I do not really have anyone else to tell."

ugh


It was almost the exact same conversation I had with the police officer about my wife's harassment claims. Nobody thinks it should be "public knowledge" Its like our entire society agrees affairs should be secret and who cares about the betrayed spouse. Lets just defend the APs. I will probably paste the law (if its not too lengthy) in this thread for interpretation. I guess now I have been warned by two police departments - but it was by police officers, not lawyers.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 03:43 PM
Here is what she sent me - the law is lengthy so I will only post the sections she highlighted for me.

SECTION 16-17-430. Unlawful communication.

(A) It is unlawful for a person to:

(3) telephone or electronically contact another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of annoying or harassing another person or his family;

SECTION 16-3-1700. Definitions.

As used in this article:

(B) "Harassment in the second degree" means a pattern of intentional, substantial, and unreasonable intrusion into the private life of a targeted person that serves no legitimate purpose and causes the person and would cause a reasonable person in his position to suffer mental or emotional distress. Harassment in the second degree may include, but is not limited to, verbal, written, or electronic contact that is initiated, maintained, or repeated.

(D) "Pattern" means two or more acts occurring over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose.

(E) "Family" means a spouse, child, parent, sibling, or a person who regularly resides in the same household as the targeted person.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 04:17 PM
Well, "serves no legitimate purpose" is a problem for them, because your legitimate purpose is to preserve your state-sanctioned, legitimate marriage. Still, I think you can let it go now, because you achieved your goal, which was to expose the affair.
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 04:54 PM
So, if I remember correctly, you are in Ohio WC....When I searched for this specific statute in Ohio, it does not exist. Also, the statute number is not in the style Ohio uses. It may be a local city ordinance that is not online BUT I don't think so....here's why....When I searched for "Section 16-17-430. Unlawful communication., what comes up is a South Carolina statute with that exact number, exact text AND when I search for "SECTION 16-3-1700. Definitions.," it again takes me to a South Carolina statute, not an Ohio one.

Are you certain 1) the person was actually calling from a police department (as in did it show up on caller id or do you have the number and does it trace back to a police department) 2) is the email with the statute from a legitimate government email address? and, 3) was it the same officer who cautioned you previously?

I strongly suspect this person contacting you is a friend of or somehow affiliated with OM or your WW. If you are not certain the call came from a police department it could very easily be someone claiming to be who really isn't. Second, if it is from a legitimate police officer, you may want to talk to an attorney about filing a complaint against that officer with the law enforcement agency's internal affairs department stating that he/she is using their official position for personal purposes, namely to harass you on behalf of a friend/family member.

Here is the closest Ohio statute that might apply to this situation:

2917.21 Telecommunications harassment.

(A) No person shall knowingly make or cause to be made a telecommunication, or knowingly permit a telecommunication to be made from a telecommunications device under the person's control, to another, if the caller does any of the following:

(1) Fails to identify the caller to the recipient of the telecommunication and makes the telecommunication with purpose to harass or abuse any person at the premises to which the telecommunication is made, whether or not actual communication takes place between the caller and a recipient;

(2) Describes, suggests, requests, or proposes that the caller, the recipient of the telecommunication, or any other person engage in sexual activity, and the recipient or another person at the premises to which the telecommunication is made has requested, in a previous telecommunication or in the immediate telecommunication, that the caller not make a telecommunication to the recipient or to the premises to which the telecommunication is made;

(3) During the telecommunication, violates section 2903.21 of the Revised Code;

(4) Knowingly states to the recipient of the telecommunication that the caller intends to cause damage to or destroy public or private property, and the recipient, any member of the recipient's family, or any other person who resides at the premises to which the telecommunication is made owns, leases, resides, or works in, will at the time of the destruction or damaging be near or in, has the responsibility of protecting, or insures the property that will be destroyed or damaged;

(5) Knowingly makes the telecommunication to the recipient of the telecommunication, to another person at the premises to which the telecommunication is made, or to those premises, and the recipient or another person at those premises previously has told the caller not to make a telecommunication to those premises or to any persons at those premises.

(B) No person shall make or cause to be made a telecommunication, or permit a telecommunication to be made from a telecommunications device under the person's control, with purpose to abuse, threaten, or harass another person.

(C)

(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of telecommunications harassment.

(2) A violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), or (5) or (B) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree on a first offense and a felony of the fifth degree on each subsequent offense.

(3) Except as otherwise provided in division (C)(3) of this section, a violation of division (A)(4) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree on a first offense and a felony of the fifth degree on each subsequent offense. If a violation of division (A)(4) of this section results in economic harm of one thousand dollars or more but less than seven thousand five hundred dollars, telecommunications harassment is a felony of the fifth degree. If a violation of division (A)(4) of this section results in economic harm of seven thousand five hundred dollars or more but less than one hundred fifty thousand dollars, telecommunications harassment is a felony of the fourth degree. If a violation of division (A)(4) of this section results in economic harm of one hundred fifty thousand dollars or more, telecommunications harassment is a felony of the third degree.

If you haven't done anything listed in the statute, you have not violated it and the officer would have no reason to caution/warn you.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 04:56 PM
Love to see that brought to court, I am shocked that the police are participating in this sham. Squeaky wheel I guess. It sounds like it could be a "friend" in the department of OM or OM family.

You need to retain an attorney to protect yourself and possibly go on the offensive.

You are at war for your marriage and your personal well being.

Don't take it lightly, fight fire with fire.
If it is a "real" officer, they are abusing their authority. Take action.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
So, if I remember correctly, you are in Ohio WC....When I searched for this specific statute in Ohio, it does not exist. Also, the statute number is not in the style Ohio uses. It may be a local city ordinance that is not online BUT I don't think so....here's why....When I searched for "Section 16-17-430. Unlawful communication., what comes up is a South Carolina statute with that exact number, exact text AND when I search for "SECTION 16-3-1700. Definitions.," it again takes me to a South Carolina statute, not an Ohio one.

Are you certain 1) the person was actually calling from a police department (as in did it show up on caller id or do you have the number and does it trace back to a police department) 2) is the email with the statute from a legitimate government email address? and, 3) was it the same officer who cautioned you previously?

It was definitely from SC. I could not remember if I previously stated, but hey might as well now - OM is from South Carolina.

It was definitely from a legitimate police officer from OM's area. She felt more strongly that I could face harassment. The police officer from my area said she has nothing to go on...yet.
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:03 PM
BUT, you made the call from Ohio so the alleged crime is being committed in Ohio, not South Carolina...Even if it were being committed in South Carolina, in order for them to do anything to you, you'd 1) have to be in SC, or 2) they'd have to extradite you there which they are not going to do for a misdemeanor...heck, they won't even do that for more serious crimes!

Any letters you sent would have been mailed in Ohio and might be subject to postal inspector jurisdiction (federal law would apply).

Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
Don't take it lightly, fight fire with fire.
If it is a "real" officer, they are abusing their authority. Take action.

This is something to consider. If the officer has no jurisdiction because you're calling from OH, then you could have a lawyer send a threatening letter to the department. Nip it in the bud. I'd hate for you to have to go to court over this. You'll win in court, but you'll still lose because of the waste of your precious time and money.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:14 PM
Check but I think SC still allows AofA suits. W which may apply. In not a lawyer so I don't know for sure but OM may be ascared if those laws are still on the books in SC. Because if they met up in SC, it could be a crime.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:14 PM
Sorry my autocorrect is out of control.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:16 PM
Nope, just looked it up. It is NC.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
Originally Posted by NebDane
Don't take it lightly, fight fire with fire.
If it is a "real" officer, they are abusing their authority. Take action.

This is something to consider. If the officer has no jurisdiction because you're calling from OH, then you could have a lawyer send a threatening letter to the department. Nip it in the bud. I'd hate for you to have to go to court over this. You'll win in court, but you'll still lose because of the waste of your precious time and money.

Yes!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:41 PM
SECTION 16-17-440. Venue for prosecution under Section 16-17-430.

Venue for prosecution pursuant to the provisions of Section 16-17-430 shall be either in the county wherein the telephonic communications originated or the county where it was received.

HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 16-552.2; 1961 (52) 451.

That was also sent to me from her.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:46 PM
But it still has to meet the definition of harassment. Which it doesn't.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 05:52 PM
Plus, that assumes the county is in the same state. I hope you do look into filing a complaint against the officer.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 06:42 PM
I feel like I am constantly the one getting humiliated - police in my house belittling me, divorce papers pushed onto me through a door from strangers, and finally this conversation. I mean - I feel like I handled the situation well with my responses, but I still feel miserable after the fact.

But nonetheless, I guess this is the blow back from the exposure. I just need to remain still and quiet. You guys have gave me the confidence that I can rest easy knowing there is no actual harassment coming... and if it does, I should be fairly safe.

I am just always the one getting gored... and some people are going to believe her lies and think I really am abusive etc.

I just hope someday she recognizes that I went to bat for her against an entire company, against an entire family of people I do not know, etc.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 06:55 PM
Quote
I just hope someday she recognizes that I went to bat for her against an entire company, against an entire family of people I do not know, etc.

She may remain wayward. That is a very real possibility that you need to embrace. But even if that's the case, you will not regret this.

The way I look at exposure and things I did after D-day that I got flack for (like Plan B) is that my WxH threw a bomb in my lap and I was doing the best that I could to navigate through a horrible situation that HE created, not me.

And honestly, if you are the type of person that worries a lot about what other people think about you, this entire process is going to help you get over that pretty quickly.

I still went through nonsense years after the D with my in-laws trying to paint me in a bad light to people in the community, even to my own children or posting stuff about me on FB. You start to realize the people who will believe them are not worth your time or energy in the least.

Still...sorry for your turmoil.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 06:55 PM
You've done well. You have demonstrated commendable love and commitment to your wife. No matter what happens, you will be able to look back and know that you did everything you could.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 07:13 PM
Her best friend (our maid of honor) had an affair in her first marriage. She said that she felt terrible, but her husband did not fight for her at all - he just aided the divorce process.

She said about a year later she wanted to reconcile with him but he had already gotten engaged by that time. She does not blame him for that obviously, but she has told me these things to get to the point of "you are fighting for her WC"

Her and her current husband have been two of my biggest supporters in all of this. I just keep clinging to the words she said, "You are fighting". She has cancelled meetings on her best friend many times during all this, because she won't tell her what she wants to hear obviously.

There is nothing more I can do... my wife either comes back or she does not... I just am stuck here thinking "Wow, is she really going to pick that company and him over me?"

Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 07:42 PM
I didn't find MB until after D-day and exposure. After that, I used MB principals to win my W back and R our M.

Others have disagreed with my suggestions that you should pursue her and you have ignored it as well, which is perfectly fine. I have already R my M.

I believe my M would not have survived if I had not pursued her and had just laid back waiting for her to come back to me.

My FWW has thanked me NUMEROUS times for fighting for her and winning her love back.




Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
There is nothing more I can do... my wife either comes back or she does not... I just am stuck here thinking "Wow, is she really going to pick that company and him over me?"

I disagree.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 07:59 PM

Nobody told him he was finished. What SMB said was to be patient. ATM his WW is in full blown anger mode and trying to get harassment charges filed,.

WC is playing a long game - not a short game.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
There is nothing more I can do... my wife either comes back or she does not... I just am stuck here thinking "Wow, is she really going to pick that company and him over me?"

I disagree.

I feel like if I sent her a text message saying "Want to go get dinner?" I would have an officer on my porch within an hour 20year.

Posted By: 20YearHistory Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 08:31 PM

I simply started by small talk over text and email about interesting things or jokes...then warmed up to getting together. Just like when we first met.

She sees you as the person she left not the person you are/have become. She does not think it possible to be in love with you again.

If you allow her to see glimpses of the �new you�, she might open her mind. Her feelings about things most likely are changing every 5 minutes when she is in the fog.

Never know, you might catch her at the right time.



Posted By: Prisca Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 09:24 PM
Quote
What SMB said was to be patient.
I believe she also said that this was Dr. Harley's advice, as well. Dr. Harley has the expertise to know when to deviate from the standard MB advice. We should be careful not to contradict him when he does.

Quote
Others have disagreed with my suggestions that you should pursue her and you have ignored it as well, which is perfectly fine. I have already R my M.
SMB has a recovered marriage, too.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/08/15 10:16 PM
I am just so exhausted and drained from today... but I did schedule a workout with some friends tonight and I plan on keeping my schedule.

It certainly did not help my work performance talking to the officer today. I had another anxiety attack during work (even though I took my anti As this morning).

Hopefully I can decompress and get rallied around a good day tomorrow and beyond.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/09/15 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
There is nothing more I can do... my wife either comes back or she does not... I just am stuck here thinking "Wow, is she really going to pick that company and him over me?"

I disagree.

I feel like if I sent her a text message saying "Want to go get dinner?" I would have an officer on my porch within an hour 20year.

I've heard Dr. Harley say more than once that exposure speeds up the process of getting the betrayed spouse out of limbo one way or another. It forces the WS's hand, either they opt to recover or they opt to divorce, but they don't keep you waiting in separation hell for years on end (which happens often too). You can't help what they decide to do, it is out of your control. What you have already done is the best possible thing you could have to save your marriage, and even if that doesn't end up happening, you will be out of a terrible situation more quickly than you would have been otherwise.

You are not doing anything wrong by being cautious. Not every situation here is the same and the way someone else's WS responded to something is not necessarily how its going to work for yours.

I've seen several men in your situation on here (including myself) end up facing harassment charges or restraining orders for doing harmless Plan A stuff, and I'm seeing a lot of familiar warning signs here. The fact that she refuses to speak to you after this long should be taken as a warning to keep your distance because she is probably still very hostile towards you. That's why I used the words cold-blooded in my last post. Her behavior towards you right now is very abusive, there are no excuses for it. It's complete abandonment. We'd all be encouraging you to be pursuing her more if she wasn't acting the profile of someone who files harassment charges, which she is.

You need to keep your lawyer in the loop about what the police have said to you so you can get his opinion and are prepared for that possibility. I understand today was rough (it's frustrating to deal with police officers when you haven't done anything wrong) and I'm not trying to discourage you, but I am also trying to be realistic with you. You need to be prepared for the possibility.

A LOT of harassment charges and restraining orders are frivolous/groundless and unfortunately, in most areas that's not enough to keep them from being filed and you from going to court to defend yourself. That can be very intimidating, I know first hand, but you can also get your facts/documents together and be prepared for it. That will help put your mind at ease.

Also, if you don't have one, you need a call recorder installed on your smartphone. Many are free (I used one called Smart Call Recorder on my Android) and any correspondence you have with OM/police/WW/in-laws/etc needs to be recorded in case it is needed for court at a later date.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/ohio/ohio-recording-law

Ohio appears to be a one party consent state which means as long as you are either calling or being called it is completely legal for you to record it. It's a weird thing to do but the world you are in as a BS is a crazy world for the time being, as you have no doubt discovered. This will help protect you by providing a witness to any potential harassment or false allegations against you.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/09/15 03:54 AM
Viewing for my cousin is tomorrow... Then I'm going to church. Keeping that schedule as full as I can...

I have a call recorder, thanks ax.

Just need to be patient... This was just a bad day. They'll get easier I hope.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/12/15 04:51 PM
I got her a Christmas present. HPB and I are trying to figure out how to get it to her though...

I have been doing OK lately. I think about her more than ever it seems... Someone told me I am getting over the "shock" and now I am experiencing all the feeling fully...

My mom is in the hospital which isn't helping - but I think she is doing Ok.

Just hanging in there. Thought I'd update you guys since you have invested so much time. Thanks again.
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: My situation. - 12/14/15 03:39 AM
Hello Wrestler,

I'm sorry to read about the loss of your cousin and your mom in the hospital. I'll say some prayers. The coming holidays will likely be tough for you as it sounds like your wife is serious about divorcing. Best thing you can do is focus on Your well-being and growth now despite what you hear about her or hope from her. That is a an important part of a Plan A. If you two had kids, there would be somewhat of a bond between the two of you, but that's not the case. You're very young, so the truth is you have to consider if she will be a part of your life going forward.

Tom
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 12:37 AM
Just got a court order to appear in court Jan. 22 for harassment in violation of my temporary restraining order.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 12:43 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Just got a court order to appear in court Jan. 22 for harassment in violation of my temporary restraining order.

What does your lawyer say?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 12:44 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Just got a court order to appear in court Jan. 22 for harassment in violation of my temporary restraining order.

What does your lawyer say?

Haven't talked to him yet. Just got it minutes ago.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 12:46 AM
"Plaintiff submits that Defendant's actions are not only harassing and annoying but malicious and were for the purpose of embarrassing Plaintiff and damaging her career."
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
"Plaintiff submits that Defendant's actions are not only harassing and annoying but malicious and were for the purpose of embarrassing Plaintiff and damaging her career."

"Defendant has repeatedly and extensively violated the provision of the Temporary Restraining Orders which restrains the Defendant from annoying and harassing the Plaintiff. Defendant has placed multiple phone calls and sent numerous correspondences to friends, family, the corporate office of the Plaintiff's employer, several other individuals within the company with which Plaintiff is employed, and on social media sites regarding an alleged relationship between Plaintiff and a third party."
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 02:01 AM
Wasn't most of your exposure done before the TRO? Also, she still has to prove harrassment.

Could you countersue, as she keeps getting police officers to call you with threats?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by apples123
Wasn't most of your exposure done before the TRO? Also, she still has to prove harrassment.

Could you countersue, as she keeps getting police officers to call you with threats?

ALL of my exposure to her side was prior to the TRO. However, she is citing some of the exposure I did on his side which happened about Nov. 25th (TRO was issued on Nov.17).

I am talking to my attorney tomorrow - SMB and HPB seem to think it could get thrown out.

She also is claiming that it is alleged - so I could start that fire under my WW's butt when my attorney starts digging for evidence that it is not alleged.

Additionally, she probably just got my response and "served" recently. I only completed my paperwork a little while ago.

We will see after my talk with my lawyer tomorrow.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My wife has intentionally kept information pertaining to him a secret. All I know is that he is in the same company and he is single.

I believe she has kept it a secret for the fact that she doesn't want me to expose her. However, I have plenty to expose her with... I am afraid to appear spiteful (as you have mentioned, I should worry less about that).

So far the only people that know are her parents, my brother and anyone she has told in private.
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
He said I could refute that I was not properly served, but he said the court will recognize that as a proper service. I will look at how he bills and definitely cite the adultery. This will also clear up one thing - do I actually have the right OM? If an attorney contacts him for any type of testimony also, that would be enough to scare off even the stickiest of OMs I imagine.
What kind of evidence do you have of the affair/identity of OM? I searched your thread and read about phone records plus what your wife told you. Do you have more evidence?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 03:24 AM
All I have is the phone records and the OMs behavior when confronted. She never told me who with. She described him and he certainly meets all the criteria.

I set of interrogatories sent to the right people could easily clear it up though I would think.

When I said "I have plenty to expose her with" I meant just the affair - I did not fully understand Exposure 101 at that time. She told me she was having an affair, I had enough to tell her family.

Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 02:48 PM
Typical dirty tactic by a wayward. It is serious, but an unfortunate manipulation of the legal system that is exploited by people with low character.

Your lawyer needs to fight fire with fire. If it goes to a hearing, your attorney needs to know how the judge leans. It is ridiculous to charge harrassment because you called someone with the truth and a desire to save your marriage. I forget how the first TRO was allowed, that should never been granted with an attorney with any know how.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 09:32 PM

Ugs. You must feel like you can't catch a break. Sometimes waywards are particularly nasty (mine was pretty awful) and unfortunately, that's what you go stuck with...

I agree with SMB and HPB that it doesn't sound like something that will stand up in court. Hang in there, WC.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/15/15 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Ugs. You must feel like you can't catch a break. Sometimes waywards are particularly nasty (mine was pretty awful) and unfortunately, that's what you go stuck with...

I agree with SMB and HPB that it doesn't sound like something that will stand up in court. Hang in there, WC.

I am prepared to offer you an apology SusieQ laugh
One thing I am going to discuss with my attorney is validating the "alleged" relationship via interrogatories - which means.... more dollars!

But I have not talked to my attorney yet, he is calling me this evening to discuss this matter - we may just defer it all together. But this could be an opportunity to draw things out a little bit. My paperwork was filed and our pretrial date is in February.
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 03:48 AM
Wrestler,

That sucks that a charge has been filed against you. I hope your attorney has the experience and a plan to get the charge dismissed. My thought, however, is to have a consult with an attorney who specializes in criminal law. It is a criminal charge. I think under the circumstances, at this point I would not contact your W for any reason. I would place any Plan A on hold. Good luck to you and some prayers.

Tom

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 10:10 AM
Originally Posted by Tom2010
Wrestler,

That sucks that a charge has been filed against you. I hope your attorney has the experience and a plan to get the charge dismissed. My thought, however, is to have a consult with an attorney who specializes in criminal law. It is a criminal charge. I think under the circumstances, at this point I would not contact your W for any reason. I would place any Plan A on hold. Good luck to you and some prayers.

Tom

Yah, might have to hold off on a Christmas present frown
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I am prepared to offer you an apology SusieQ laugh
One thing I am going to discuss with my attorney is validating the "alleged" relationship via interrogatories - which means.... more dollars!

Of course I was right rotflmao Thank you for the apology.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Of course I was right rotflmao Thank you for the apology.

I haven't paid him more (and he has not asked for more) money yet. So you just wait a minute... smile
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 06:57 PM
My attorney just said "I strongly advise you not send her a Christmas present." frown

I was really excited about that.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Of course I was right rotflmao Thank you for the apology.

I haven't paid him more (and he has not asked for more) money yet. So you just wait a minute... smile

I'm not worried about it! lol
Posted By: indiegirl Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
"Plaintiff submits that Defendant's actions are not only harassing and annoying but malicious and were for the purpose of embarrassing Plaintiff and damaging her career."

"Defendant has repeatedly and extensively violated the provision of the Temporary Restraining Orders which restrains the Defendant from annoying and harassing the Plaintiff. Defendant has placed multiple phone calls and sent numerous correspondences to friends, family, the corporate office of the Plaintiff's employer, several other individuals within the company with which Plaintiff is employed, and on social media sites regarding an alleged relationship between Plaintiff and a third party."


This has been done before and its always a really oddball lawyer who scams his own clients and seems wayward themselves. It doesn't stand up but he still gets his payday.

Is there scope for you to claim harrasment of your family life and finances via the continued affair? Or to subpoena proof of on going affair, not an alleged one?

You can do this with defamation. If they say it's untrue slander, you can request phone records and all sorts of evidence be produced which means the A goes on very public record. Strangely even the craziest wayward (who always without fail shout slander!) never pursue a defamation claim, even though it would help their goal of fillibustering the BS into the ground. I think the subpoena threat is why. They like harrasment laws better for harrasment of BS.

Waywards loathe exposure and think legal fights can stop them. Actually legal processes should uncover truth which puts a snake into the court room fruit basket which should make them conveniently leap away.


Do the art of war; when weak appear strong, when strong appear weak.

If you can drag evidence of the A onto public record, you are strong. So say nothing and let them walk into that trap.

If you can't, and you are weak, imply that you can. Let word reach them either in the rumour mill, through WW, (if your lawyers game maybe even in a suitably threatening legal letter) that graphic, hitherto unseen affair evidence will have to be produced to refute very spurious and defamatory allegations about your motives.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My attorney just said "I strongly advise you not send her a Christmas present." frown

I was really excited about that.


Get it, just dont send it. A WW will love getting in touch with you to throw it in your face that you didn't send one. When she does that, get it out, ready gift wrapped and proffer it.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Get it, just dont send it. A WW will love getting in touch with you to throw it in your face that you didn't send one. When she does that, get it out, ready gift wrapped and proffer it.

I have it, I am still going to wrap it. I was thinking about giving it to her at our Pretrial, unless the opportunity presents itself earlier...

Originally Posted by indiegirl
This has been done before and its always a really oddball lawyer who scams his own clients and seems wayward themselves. It doesn't stand up but he still gets his payday.

Is there scope for you to claim harrasment of your family life and finances via the continued affair? Or to subpoena proof of on going affair, not an alleged one?

You can do this with defamation. If they say it's untrue slander, you can request phone records and all sorts of evidence be produced which means the A goes on very public record. Strangely even the craziest wayward (who always without fail shout slander!) never pursue a defamation claim, even though it would help their goal of fillibustering the BS into the ground. I think the subpoena threat is why. They like harrasment laws better for harrasment of BS.

Waywards loathe exposure and think legal fights can stop them. Actually legal processes should uncover truth which puts a snake into the court room fruit basket which should make them conveniently leap away.


Do the art of war; when weak appear strong, when strong appear weak.

If you can drag evidence of the A onto public record, you are strong. So say nothing and let them walk into that trap.

If you can't, and you are weak, imply that you can. Let word reach them either in the rumour mill, through WW, (if your lawyers game maybe even in a suitably threatening legal letter) that graphic, hitherto unseen affair evidence will have to be produced to refute very spurious and defamatory allegations about your motives.

indie, these are strong points. I have started to prepare for an all out assault if necessary. I have thought of exactly who I would send interrogatories to, subpoena on phone record, etc. I have gathered all messages I have sent, and what days I sent them.

HOWEVER I asked my lawyer to negotiate that my WW drop the charges, and in return I will cease exposure (I am done anyways). HerPapaBear and I spoke for a very long time talking about how I should proceed. The fact is, if OM was coming at me with these charges - I would not hesitate one bit to completely unload on him (however, it is likely he has much more financial backing than I do). But the fact of the matter is, its my wife. One thing HPB and I talked about was "Being able to identify when I am killing the affair, and when I am killing the affair at the cost of recovery." We both agreed that the best route to take was negotiate that the charges be dropped. If my WW (& her lawyer) refuse to drop the charges, consult my lawyer about counter suing or at least making this extremely unpleasant. I like this route, because sure - everything from this gets relayed to other man through my wife, but that is just it... it literally goes through my wife to get to him. She absorbs all the damage from this if I become extra persistent.

In other words, I am prepared for a war - but I think this is a fight that I do not need to fight for the marriage.

Now, if OM wants to send me some paperwork... we can dance. Might need donations though laugh
Posted By: indiegirl Re: My situation. - 12/16/15 11:17 PM
I think that's a sound tactic. Handing him a hollow victory with an already-complete exposure is a time honoured method.

Also, if things do progress after your offer, its generally going to be more conflict in the A. At least you proffered peace.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/17/15 03:52 AM
Talk to your lawyer and see if he has experience defending against/defeating an RO with subpoenaed evidence. Consider also getting a second opinion.

Since you two are married the judge is going to look at this as yet another run of the mill domestic dispute (even though it is not), and judges often look at an RO in domestic cases as a legal remedy more than a punishment.

If you can subpoena text messages I am almost certain you could find proof positive of the affair that would convince any judge. But I am concerned that you will not be given a chance to request and present that sort of evidence before the judge feels he had enough to render a decision, particularly since your WW is claiming you violated an existing TRO.

Could be way off, but might want to look into it. Might end up having to counter-file a charge of sorts sooner than later.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/18/15 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by MrWondering
short term marriage without children....go big on exposure. You got one big shot to bust things up.

Originally Posted by markos
PLAN! AIM!

Originally Posted by sexymamabear
You did an outstanding job of exposing. It is never an easy thing to do, but you did what was necessary anyway.

Now let the fallout land on everyone else while you stay quiet for a few days.

So I was reading back through my thread and had the thought, "who all knows now?" For fun I made a list for anyone following this thread...

My Side
-Mom, Dad, two brothers
-Two grandmothers
-Entire family extended out to first cousins
-5 coworkers, and my two superior bosses
-All my Facebook friends that would have saw my status or her martial status change, ~50 people have mentioned something to me in support of the situation
-Our Pastor

Her Side
-Mom, Dad, two brothers
-Two grandmothers
-She has about 50 relatives on her dad's side alone, I'd say about 30 of them are aware of the situation.
-Her aunts on her mom's side
-SexyMamaBear and HerPapaBear know, as well as their family laugh
-Her maid of honor, matron of honor and last bridesmaid
-Our Pastor

OM's Side
-Mom (handwritten letter & phone call), Dad, brother, step sister
-I sent about 30 messages to his family on FB - most notably his cousin responded

The Company they work for
-The VP of Human Relations
-The Regional HR manager of OM region
-The Regional HR manager of my wife's region
-My wife's direct superior/boss
-3 of her closest coworkers
-5 of his co-workers (1 was mutually a friend with my wife, and was very unpleasant in his response ha!)
-My brother works for the same company about 40 miles away, that entire office is aware thanks to my brother aiding in exposure
-One of her coworkers from this company when we lived in PA
-One of her coworkers that moved to FL

BONUS
-I told the tanning salon lady of the salon my wife and I go to...because the lady said "I saw your wife earlier today, she said you and her were going out of town this weekend?"
I just replied "Oh, my wife is having an affair and trying to divorce me...I love her though and would love to recover this marriage! Have a good one!"



Thanks guys so much for the support, I could not even imagine where I would be without you all...
Posted By: Ron_C Re: My situation. - 12/18/15 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
BONUS
-I told the tanning salon lady of the salon my wife and I go to...because the lady said "I saw your wife earlier today, she said you and her were going out of town this weekend?"
I just replied "Oh, my wife is having an affair and trying to divorce me...I love her though and would love to recover this marriage! Have a good one!"

I love your come back ! ! !
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 03:26 AM
Eh... Not a good day. Thought about the wife alot today... Holiday season is hard. Hope she is struggling at least a fraction of what I am... frown

I was on a pretty long streak though of "good" days
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 02:56 PM
My brother just informed me that my wife has left her very lofty job here in Ohio to completely start over in SC (exact city where OM lives) for an entry level position at a partner company...

I'm completely devastated again... They both will easily be able to finance everything (our bills and theirs).

I'm sick to my stomach and I vomited here at work in a nervous breakdown.

I am at a lose for words...
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 03:31 PM
HerPapaBear just talked to me and I feel a little better... He said she is probably losing her mind in panic too. He is her family so he left me with "She probably left to get away from people shoving it down her throat, you and I both know she hates that."

The only good I see from all this is that it validates everything I exposed with to everyone I exposed to...
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 03:54 PM
Dr. Harley always says that affairs are irrational. The more time she spends with this creep the more she will realize what a terrible mistake she's made. Or she could dig her heels in and refuse to admit to herself what a horrible mess she's made of her life like my ex did. Your actions have ensured the greatest odds of success. I did tons of research on my own, reading every infidelity forum I could find. It seems to me the odds of success if you do nothing are about 25% or less. With exposure and Plan A, the odds are around 50%. That number was true anecdotally from my time on these forums. There were three other men contemporary with me, and two of us ended up divorced while the other two are working on recovery right now.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 04:03 PM
To further explain, between 95 and 97% of affairs end within two years, and nearly all waywards attempt to come back when the affair is over. I've heard tons of these stories among friends and acquaintances and read about them online. I've seen the claims that it's around 90%, and I believe they are true. The thing is, at some point, the betrayed spouse moves on, as I have. I fully expect my ex to come crawling back someday, but I've already moved on and will not take her back. That's my theory for why the number of reconciliations is so small despite the fact that almost all affairs end in a relatively short amount of time: the betrayed spouse moves on.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
My brother just informed me that my wife has left her very lofty job here in Ohio to completely start over in SC (exact city where OM lives) for an entry level position at a partner company...

That just means the affair will die faster. I know it makes you sick, but when they move in together, the affair will go into a FASTER free fall. It is in freefall right now. The true colors of the RAT OM will start coming out too.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
To further explain, between 95 and 97% of affairs end within two years, and nearly all waywards attempt to come back when the affair is over. I've heard tons of these stories among friends and acquaintances and read about them online. I've seen the claims that it's around 90%, and I believe they are true. The thing is, at some point, the betrayed spouse moves on, as I have. I fully expect my ex to come crawling back someday, but I've already moved on and will not take her back. That's my theory for why the number of reconciliations is so small despite the fact that almost all affairs end in a relatively short amount of time: the betrayed spouse moves on.

I hope I can preserve enough love for her for this day... I know it sounds crazy. I just want to be there when it all comes crashing down.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
That just means the affair will die faster. I know it makes you sick, but when they move in together, the affair will go into a FASTER free fall. It is in freefall right now. The true colors of the RAT OM will start coming out too.

It does make me sick. But, I know her parents will never accept this guy. Maybe the OM's parents do, but it will be awkward because they know she is married (and she knows they know). She is moving to SC to be with OM, and he is going to be the ONLY person she has there. She is going to have to rebuild her life from scraps.

I just was hoping the affair would die without something as substantial as her relocating and changing jobs. I mean one of the criteria I take her back on was leaving the current job she had...

I know I must sound like a broken record by now - thanks guys for the insights
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 04:29 PM
As betrayed spouses, we tend to think it all depends on the wayward and whether or not they will choose to come back. In reality, however, it is the betrayed spouse who will have to ultimately decide whether or not to take the wayward back and forgive the ultimate betrayal. The pain of infidelity is not a one time thing. The longer the affair continues, the more pain you will endure. At a certain point, you will reach your threshold of pain, and her account in your love bank will be in the red. At that point, she will have to win you back if there is any hope for reconciliation. This is why Dr. Harley's plan is so effective. Exposure speeds up the demise of the affair, and the other part of Plan A, meeting emotional needs, lets the wayward know the door is still open (and that things can be different). If affairs continue past a certain point, I believe it is the betrayed spouse that ends up making the final decision as to whether or not to return to the marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[It does make me sick. But, I know her parents will never accept this guy. Maybe the OM's parents do, but it will be awkward because they know she is married (and she knows they know). She is moving to SC to be with OM, and he is going to be the ONLY person she has there. She is going to have to rebuild her life from scraps.

And just think of the kind of guy this is. He is a faithless rat who has no respect for your wife and no respect for marriage. Just ask yourself what kind of guy screws around with a married woman? Once the gloss wears off, there will be nothing to hold the affair together.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 04:38 PM
Shack up relationships tend to be renters relationships that are characterized by fighting and violence. The vast majority of domestic violence, for example, occur in relationships where they live together or lived together before marriage.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And just think of the kind of guy this is. He is a faithless rat who has no respect for your wife and no respect for marriage. Just ask yourself what kind of guy screws around with a married woman? Once the gloss wears off, there will be nothing to hold the affair together.

She was miserable when we lived in PA too, she really loves having her family around. The house we have now is like 2 minutes from her parents. It pains me to say this, because I hate watching her destroy herself, but I am thinking she is going to hate her life about a month from now...

Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 10:24 PM
That would be good.
Posted By: Ron_C Re: My situation. - 12/22/15 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And just think of the kind of guy this is. He is a faithless rat who has no respect for your wife and no respect for marriage. Just ask yourself what kind of guy screws around with a married woman? Once the gloss wears off, there will be nothing to hold the affair together.

She was miserable when we lived in PA too, she really loves having her family around. The house we have now is like 2 minutes from her parents. It pains me to say this, because I hate watching her destroy herself, but I am thinking she is going to hate her life about a month from now...

I am with you there, I am not sure what's worse the pain of the affair or the pain seeing your WW go and destroy her life.
I still love my WW so it's painfully for me to see the path she is going down.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
It pains me to say this, because I hate watching her destroy herself, but I am thinking she is going to hate her life about a month from now...

Don't be pained by that. Her life needs to become hell in order for the affair to die and your marriage to survive. She needs to hit a rock bottom before you are going to look more attractive to her than OM.

She's made a series of extremely poor choices here and consequences (such as her new life being hard) are the medicine that will help her realize OM was a bad choice.

You are John in the John and Sue situation in SAA. Your wife has to get to where Sue was (broke/desperate) before she's going to come back.
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 05:09 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
The Company they work for
-The VP of Human Relations
-The Regional HR manager of OM region
-The Regional HR manager of my wife's region
-My wife's direct superior/boss
-3 of her closest coworkers
-5 of his co-workers (1 was mutually a friend with my wife, and was very unpleasant in his response ha!)
-My brother works for the same company about 40 miles away, that entire office is aware thanks to my brother aiding in exposure

That WW is still with the same/related company...it will be uncomfortable for her to be in the same town/related work environment with OM. People will talk about them...even if people aren't talking about them, WW will be paranoid and think people are talking about her and OM...and they will be!! crazy laugh

WW may be in a panic to escape but she is going to a place where there will still be problems for her to face and the love busting will begin.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 01:33 PM
She probably will be working with people who are unaware of her situation... However - his family knows, and his coworkers know - so there goes hanging out with anyone OM is usually hanging with I would assume.

I asked my attorney if we could delay things a bit by asking for an amended affavidit for her new job etc. He said she will have to submit one anyways. He also said "The TRO violation has not been dismissed, but he fully expects it to be."


Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 03:11 PM
The office grapevine is Going to make sure everyone knows.this is too juicy for anyone to keep to themselves.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by apples123
The office grapevine is Going to make sure everyone knows.this is too juicy for anyone to keep to themselves.

I hope you are right. When I say sister/partner companies, I mean like the equivalent of Red Lobster and Olive Garden both being owned by Darden Restaurants...

She used to work at "Red Lobster" here in Ohio, she is moving to "Olive Garden" in SC while OM works at "Red Lobster" across the street. By all means, I hope the story follows her...

I went to the doctor today to beef up my AAs and ADs, I also told him I was not sleeping well at all - he said I could have acute insomnia but he said try over the counter stuff first (i.e. Tylenol PM, Benadryl).

I am trying to stay positive, but I won't lie, my support group is deteriorating with the news of her new job is SC. A lot of people are saying that this was the final straw -

"WC, its over, its time to move on"

"WC, I cannot realize it for you, you need to realize its over."

"WC, shes clearly done - just move on."


Ugh, I wish I could meet you guys in real life and some of my friends a couple times a week over the internet forums. Its hard because they just do not get it. I understand that there may come a time to move on but this is not it. THIS was in the plan! If I remember right Dr. Harley might have even mentioned it in our conversation that it may be a good thing if she moves in with him.

I just need to regroup in these couple days - it was just a big jolt again.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 06:48 PM
Ideally exposure would end the affair. That happens in some cases. But yes, this is part of the plan. You want to speed up the demise of the affair, and her being with him full time will do just that. Affairs can go on for a long time if they are kept a secret. The longer an affair continues, the less likely it is that you will be able to recover. Dr. Harley says that it's very rare for a marriage to be recovered if the affair lasts more than two years. In fact, I believe he always advises people to move on if the affair passes the two year mark because it's so rare. Your actions have sped things up, so you will not have to be in limbo for an ungodly amount of time.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
Ideally exposure would end the affair. That happens in some cases. But yes, this is part of the plan. You want to speed up the demise of the affair, and her being with him full time will do just that. Affairs can go on for a long time if they are kept a secret. The longer an affair continues, the less likely it is that you will be able to recover. Dr. Harley says that it's very rare for a marriage to be recovered if the affair lasts more than two years. In fact, I believe he always advises people to move on if the affair passes the two year mark because it's so rare. Your actions have sped things up, so you will not have to be in limbo for an ungodly amount of time.

That is the amount of time I have given her... I came to that with HPB. I am not going longer than two years...

I have told people that are not familiar with Dr. Harley's material that and their jaws have fell to the floor... They just do not understand.

I will say - the two years is even beyond the affair. If the affair ends and she does not immediately return, which I am assuming is a possibility, I guess I could still wait on her. I am just trying to get myself rooted into life with her not in it at the moment.

I guess time will tell, and I am starting to believe you all when you say all I did was speed up an unavoidable process - but its still waiting.

amazingly I still have some love left in the tank for her.


My mom came over today and started taking down all my pictures and other things with my wife in them... I know she thinks its helping but I am upset. I like having those things around. Its creating more triggers tearing them down then leaving them up... I do not know what to tell my family because they just tell me that I am in denial - its time to move on... blah blah. They do not understand the plan...
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/23/15 08:59 PM
Yes, there's a possibility that she may hesitate to come back even if the affair ends. I think that's unlikely, but all I have is anecdotal evidence. I'm not a researcher. In all likelihood once the affair ends she'll come to her senses and reach out to you. It's still early, so I do think you should wait. Your family hasn't looked into the issue like you have. And I can almost guarantee that many of them would choose the same path as you were it to happen to them. Everyone says that an affair is a deal breaker...until it happens.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 12/24/15 01:11 AM
I remember how hard it was hearing so many people around me saying to give up/move on. They had my best interests in mind but it can still be hard to hear. frown

No fun, sorry you are dealing with that.

Just remember that most people have little practical experience with infidelity and zero clinical experience (like Dr. Harley) with saving marriages.

Merry Christmas to you, WC. Find some family and friends to spend time with. The people around you at least certainly know you are hurting.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/24/15 04:12 PM
I am nervous about not giving her this Christmas present... Dr. Harley and Joyce were so specific about it. I am just scared to just default Christmas over to OM.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/24/15 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I am nervous about not giving her this Christmas present... Dr. Harley and Joyce were so specific about it. I am just scared to just default Christmas over to OM.

SMB talked me down a bit on this... I am just going to stick to the plan of wrapping it and leaving it somewhere until its appropriate to give to her.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/24/15 06:14 PM
I agree with SMB.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 12/24/15 08:19 PM
Yup, the legal landscape has changed.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 12/24/15 09:24 PM
Yes, no need to bring unnecessary trouble onto yourself.
Posted By: Tom2010 Re: My situation. - 12/25/15 03:33 AM
Hello WC,

I'm very sorry to hear that your W actually relocated to be with the OM and the impact it has on you. It has to be harsh that this happened during the Christmas season, but there is no good time for this. I am scheduled to serve at Mass tomorrow, Christmas Day, and altho I am not experienced here to offer you advice, there are opportunities for personal intercessions at every Mass and I will include a prayer for you tomorrow.

I do believe you should begin disengaging from thinking of your W and the life you had with her as well as the pain you feel and focus more on you - more time with your family this Christmas season, new interests, meeting more people, etc. Altho you're hurting and feeling panicky, there are always others who are hurting more. It happens by chance if you allow it - I met a guy who manned the Salvation Army kettle at my local grocery store - I go there almost every day - he transports himself by bike - and so do I at age 73. Well we became acquainted and today his last day there we shook hands and wished each other a merry Christmas. A very small part of someone's life, but it had me feeling happy for such a small Interaction. Same applies to you - I am not feeling the pain of loss that you are - but, try to focus on the fact that there are others in this world in need of attention and you will not only feel better and more energized, but you will not have to force feed your Plan A efforts, because you will simply become more admired - whether it's your W or the people you help. And calm down about her Christmas gift - she is not a part of you now and it would just be a meaningless token - so put it aside until and if she returns or if not, donate it.

Peaceful Christmas,
Tom








Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/25/15 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by Tom2010
Hello WC,

I'm very sorry to hear that your W actually relocated to be with the OM and the impact it has on you. It has to be harsh that this happened during the Christmas season, but there is no good time for this. I am scheduled to serve at Mass tomorrow, Christmas Day, and altho I am not experienced here to offer you advice, there are opportunities for personal intercessions at every Mass and I will include a prayer for you tomorrow.

Very appreciative of the prayers Tom.

I am hosting my family for Christmas, a tradition that was exclusive to my parent's house for many years. I am trying to "own" Christmas for everything its worth, and distract me from the fact that my wife is no where to be found during this holiday season.

Merry Christmas everyone!
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 05:25 AM
WC,

Just started reading your thread. I wanted to add this:

1 year is NOT a long time to "work on fixing yourself."
1 year is NOT a long time to "let God work on the things He wants to teach you."
1 year is NOT a long time to wait for your wife to completely emerge from the fog....I believe the Harley's say the actual length of time an affair ensnares someone can be 1-3 years. THREE YEARS!!!

THAT's how long it took for me and my hubby (he's ex-WS) to get back together again. We were divorced for two of those years....and then DID get re-married.

So, don't give up on anything at this stage. It's too early in the game for you!

God Bless,
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 05:33 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
[quote=apples123]

I am trying to stay positive, but I won't lie, my support group is deteriorating with the news of her new job is SC. A lot of people are saying that this was the final straw -

"WC, its over, its time to move on"

"WC, I cannot realize it for you, you need to realize its over."

"WC, shes clearly done - just move on."


Ugh, I wish I could meet you guys in real life and some of my friends a couple times a week over the internet forums. Its hard because they just do not get it. I understand that there may come a time to move on but this is not it. THIS was in the plan! If I remember right Dr. Harley might have even mentioned it in our conversation that it may be a good thing if she moves in with him.

I just need to regroup in these couple days - it was just a big jolt again.

WC,

If you have "a Word from God" on this, stick to your guns!

I knew, I really knew. I mean really, REALLY knew....God had told me that He was going to restore my marriage (this was shortly before the divorce was final - weird, huh?). So I went into the divorce totally calm. I KNOW OUR GOD IS A GOD OF RESTORATION! HALLELUJAH!

I had to listen to "well-meaning friends and family" also tell me I was "wasting my life," and to "get on with my life" (because I wasn't DATING someone!). I stuck to my guns. I KNEW what God had told me! This despite the fact that my WH had moved to the other side of our state! I didn't know how He was going to do it, but I had UNWAVERING FAITH that God was going to do what He said He would do (restore our marriage). He had told me He was.

You need to be listening to GOD, *not* everyone else. HE WILL TELL YOU WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO DO. And you'll have peace once you know what He wants you to do.

Praying for you, brother.
God Bless,
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
You need to be listening to GOD, *not* everyone else. HE WILL TELL YOU WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO DO. And you'll have peace once you know what He wants you to do.
OlderWiser, what is your backstory? You seem to be promoting the idea that all that is required for recovery is prayer. That is not MB advice. Sure, God is involved in our lives and guides us. But a successful marriage is no more proof that we are in total agreement with God's will than economic success is. Recovery requires doing things, and one of the big ones is making sure that the conditions that led to the affair are mitigated, so that a repeat is essentially impossible. Trusting God is insufficient, and God sends people to Marriage Builders so that they will learn what they must do.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
You need to be listening to GOD, *not* everyone else. HE WILL TELL YOU WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO DO. And you'll have peace once you know what He wants you to do.
OlderWiser, what is your backstory? You seem to be promoting the idea that all that is required for recovery is prayer. That is not MB advice. Sure, God is involved in our lives and guides us. But a successful marriage is no more proof that we are in total agreement with God's will than economic success is. Recovery requires doing things, and one of the big ones is making sure that the conditions that led to the affair are mitigated, so that a repeat is essentially impossible. Trusting God is insufficient, and God sends people to Marriage Builders so that they will learn what they must do.

I'm happy to tell you, Eureka.

When my WH left, he left divorce papers in the mailbox. I had NO CLUE anything was wrong. And then one day he was just G-O-N-E. Needless to say, it was devastating. I did NOT "pray" at first. I raged. I got depressed....all the usual emotions.

But then I figured out I had to go on with my life. He was obviously DONE here. So I went back to church, and yes, praying and "God's Will" was very much an important part of our recovery. I started searching online for answers, or support, or SOMEthing! I was totally on my own. I found this site. I read and absorbed everything. Unfortunately, I couldn't do any of what was suggested. Although my WH HAD left for OW, he was TOTALLY GONE and had already decided for us that divorce was in the future. I couldn't Plan A. I couldn't Plan B. He had "Plan B'd" ME!

The one thing I COULD do that great folks around here suggested was to "work on me." I did. I got strong. I got out of my funk. That included going back to church (we had been out of church for about 20 years!). This spiritual connection became very important to me, and I believe was also part of what brought us back together. So while I appreciate your saying "it isn't part of this site's plan," I respectfully disagree with that. Especially if BS tells us that they are a Christiain. I know it was because of learning and reading everything on here AND praying and asking God what direction I should go that I was able to do what eventually led to us getting back together. In fact, I dare say I believe the Harleys ALSO believe God is in the "Restoration Business" and wants to bring marriages back together whenever possible....maybe more often than we think.

There are plenty of sites online that give people "advice" on how to move on with their lives, meet new people AND get into new relationships, often while TRASHING their WS in the process. This is not particularly productive while they are still dealing with the fall-out from THIS marriage/divorce, etc. So, I believe it is imperative that anyone give themselves, their relationships and God (if they are believers, which WC says he is) plenty of time to work things out! Marriages do not become screwed up overnight. It takes years to muck it up....and it might take almost as long to fix it!

So, yes, long story not very short - I did pray, I did work on me, I did ask God if divorce was what He wanted (and I would have been OK with it if it was), but for me - for us - God said "No. He hates divorce," and He said He was going to restore our marriage. And all I'm suggesting to WC is that he go to God (I think he already is), and ask God what direction he should go. He should be listening to GOD and not all his "nay-sayer" friends. Friends will ALWAYS tell you what seems expedient for THEM (not what is actually best for you), because they think they are somehow "sparing" you the pain. But I am only suggesting that for someone seeking to follow God, He may have a better plan. I did what I could to follow the Harley's plan, but in my situation, there was little I could do that was "textbook." The rest of our reconciliation was up to God.

And I'm not disagreeing with you that God uses this site to help people. I was responding personally to WC, since he stated he and WW are "believers."

I hope that clears things up a bit!

God Bless,
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
WC,

Just started reading your thread. I wanted to add this:

1 year is NOT a long time to "work on fixing yourself."
1 year is NOT a long time to "let God work on the things He wants to teach you."
1 year is NOT a long time to wait for your wife to completely emerge from the fog....I believe the Harley's say the actual length of time an affair ensnares someone can be 1-3 years. THREE YEARS!!!

THAT's how long it took for me and my hubby (he's ex-WS) to get back together again. We were divorced for two of those years....and then DID get re-married.

So, don't give up on anything at this stage. It's too early in the game for you!

God Bless,

I am no where near giving up. Its my support group that is giving up. Many of them are checking out because they do not understand. I have told myself I will give her around 2 years.

Originally Posted by mrEureka
OlderWiser, what is your backstory? You seem to be promoting the idea that all that is required for recovery is prayer. That is not MB advice. Sure, God is involved in our lives and guides us. But a successful marriage is no more proof that we are in total agreement with God's will than economic success is. Recovery requires doing things, and one of the big ones is making sure that the conditions that led to the affair are mitigated, so that a repeat is essentially impossible. Trusting God is insufficient, and God sends people to Marriage Builders so that they will learn what they must do.

While its hard to talk about recovery when I am potentially so far from it - I am in virtually constant contact with HerPapaBear and I am confident that I will at least be able to create a list of conditions and EPs for her - whether we can actually do them, especially her, is another story completely. I am appreciate of the encouragement from OlderWiser, and I recognize what MB advises for recovery mrEureka.


Trying to get this week started off nicely. Refilling my AA and AD prescriptions later. Per doctor's advise (who said I may have developed acute insomnia, which is not uncommon for this kind of life events) I bought some sleep aid pills.

My brother did confirm that she is not working remotely, that she is actually there in SC already - possibly missed Christmas with her family. It will be interesting to see how this pans out, but nothing is going to happen this week. In fact, it being New Years is probably a bad thing. She always wanted to go places for New Years Eve, but we never did (mostly because when it actually came time to go places, we both just fell asleep haha). But I would not be surprised if she and OM went to like Madison Square Garden or something crazy. Soon I think the finances are going to catch up with her, but who knows.

Had lunch with a couple friends this weekend that encouraged me with: "WC, there are multiple ways that this ends and you are happy. There is only one way that this ends and she is happy."
Posted By: Denali Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 03:33 PM
A friendly reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is to help others find solutions using Marriage Builders concepts. This is not a platform for personal philosophies. Please familiarize yourself with our Terms of Service and the MB program before posting advice to others.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Denali
A friendly reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is to help others find solutions using Marriage Builders concepts. This is not a platform for personal philosophies. Please familiarize yourself with our Terms of Service and the MB program before posting advice to others.

I totally understand, Denali.

Just giving encouragement to a brother in Christ.

Did not mean to go "off reservation!"

God Bless,
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 04:15 PM
I would appreciate it if you would start your own thread where you describe your situation and your recovery. God sent *you* to this forum, too. We want you to have a romantic, affair-proof marriage. While the thoughts you have expressed here clearly show good will, they do not cause me to have much confidence that you really "get it". Marriage Builders is not just about surviving infidelity, but about building a marriage that truly prospers after infidelity. Many people continue in habits and behaviors that doom them to repeated failures. If that is not you, then tell us about it. Tell us how you have used Marriage Builders principles in your recovery.
Posted By: throughtheglass Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 07:15 PM
Hi WC,

I look at your situation a bit differently than many others here. You are young, have no children, and it looks as if you are on a decent career path. My advice (after recovering my marriage from my wife's LT affair) is to cut ties and move on with your life. Give her a quick divorce on the condition she buys you out of your mortgage and takes on ALL marital debt (credit cards, vehicle loans, your school debt)

I know people will say that is unfair, but is her affair fair to you? Believe me, when you are 40 and looking back on your relationship, you will say "Why didn't I take the out when I had the chance?" You will constantly be wondering if she is cheating again. You will be suspicious every time she goes on a business trip or gets a text late at night. It's not worth it.

As I said, my wife had a long term affair and we got through it. There was never an apology or anything. I was made to believe that I was the reason for the affair. I wasn't, but it took me years to realize it. I fought for our children, not her. Don't get me wrong, we get along great now, I just don't trust her and I won't ever trust her again. My plan is to leave once my youngest goes off to college. No drama, I'm just taking half and walking away.



Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by throughtheglass
You will constantly be wondering if she is cheating again. You will be suspicious every time she goes on a business trip or gets a text late at night.

How can you be a member of this board for nine years and not know that Marriage Builders says to not take overnight trips away from each other?

It's up to you, WC - if you want to follow the MB plan and try to recover your marriage, this sort of thing won't be an issue.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by throughtheglass
Hi WC,

I look at your situation a bit differently than many others here. You are young, have no children, and it looks as if you are on a decent career path. My advice (after recovering my marriage from my wife's LT affair) is to cut ties and move on with your life. Give her a quick divorce on the condition she buys you out of your mortgage and takes on ALL marital debt (credit cards, vehicle loans, your school debt)

I know people will say that is unfair, but is her affair fair to you? Believe me, when you are 40 and looking back on your relationship, you will say "Why didn't I take the out when I had the chance?" You will constantly be wondering if she is cheating again. You will be suspicious every time she goes on a business trip or gets a text late at night. It's not worth it.

As I said, my wife had a long term affair and we got through it. There was never an apology or anything. I was made to believe that I was the reason for the affair. I wasn't, but it took me years to realize it. I fought for our children, not her. Don't get me wrong, we get along great now, I just don't trust her and I won't ever trust her again. My plan is to leave once my youngest goes off to college. No drama, I'm just taking half and walking away.

Wow. Ummm. Thanks for the post but this is simply not an option.

I am appreciative of the fact you are trying to save me some pain.

Are you married now and just a ticking time bomb ready to leave her as soon as your youngest goes to college? That does not sound too healthy.

Originally Posted by markos
How can you be a member of this board for nine years and not know that Marriage Builders says to not take overnight trips away from each other?

It's up to you, WC - if you want to follow the MB plan and try to recover your marriage, this sort of thing won't be an issue.

Markos, I am willingly to follow MB concepts and like I mentioned earlier, HPB and SMB have offered to help me construct conditions and EPs based on MB concepts. However, I understand this is going to be tough work. I have read enough literature to know that overnight trips away from each other are a no-no. Complete transparency with phone bills, texts, etc. eliminates the trust issue with "texts late at night."



If anyone else decides to read this story for the first time, please note the several instances where I have mentioned that I am 100% against the divorce until it is proven that she cannot uphold the conditions and EPs we establish to affair-proof the marriage. IF we even get to that point


Posted By: throughtheglass Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 08:02 PM
***EDIT***
Posted By: Prisca Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 08:05 PM
Quote
Complete transparency with phone bills, texts, etc. eliminates the trust issue with "texts late at night."
Yep. MB is not about blind trust.
Posted By: Toujours Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 08:12 PM
The purpose of this board is to learn Marriage Builders principles. Please familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders principles before posting, or refrain from posting. Thank you.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 08:12 PM
*Deleted*

I just deleted the response to the post that the moderator took off.

Throughtheglass, I appreciate your responses, but they are discouraging and not the road I would like to pursue.


Posted By: throughtheglass Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 08:35 PM
Hi WC, I apologize for coming off as discouraging. **EDIT**

I wish you the best in your journey, wherever it takes you. **EDIT**

TTG

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/28/15 10:15 PM
Trying to get this thread back on track a little bit for continuity.
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
While its hard to talk about recovery when I am potentially so far from it - I am in virtually constant contact with HerPapaBear and I am confident that I will at least be able to create a list of conditions and EPs for her - whether we can actually do them, especially her, is another story completely. I am appreciate of the encouragement from OlderWiser, and I recognize what MB advises for recovery mrEureka.

Trying to get this week started off nicely. Refilling my AA and AD prescriptions later. Per doctor's advise (who said I may have developed acute insomnia, which is not uncommon for this kind of life events) I bought some sleep aid pills.

My brother did confirm that she is not working remotely, that she is actually there in SC already - possibly missed Christmas with her family. It will be interesting to see how this pans out, but nothing is going to happen this week. In fact, it being New Years is probably a bad thing. She always wanted to go places for New Years Eve, but we never did (mostly because when it actually came time to go places, we both just fell asleep haha). But I would not be surprised if she and OM went to like Madison Square Garden or something crazy. Soon I think the finances are going to catch up with her, but who knows.

Had lunch with a couple friends this weekend that encouraged me with: "WC, there are multiple ways that this ends and you are happy. There is only one way that this ends and she is happy."

I am having my family over for dinner tonight, I might discuss buying (or borrowing) a vehicle from them. Just in case she tries to start a motion as to why I am not paying any payments on the car.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 02:07 PM
What am I going to do about our taxes? I know its a little early to think about that, but its on my mind here at the end of the year.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 02:31 PM
My experience with taxes is get to your accountant first!!!! Get an appt for the end of Jan or as soon as you get all your info. Get a real accountant, not some TV advertised junk. I found a new accountant when i got divorced and it was only $165.

You make the decision what you are going to do, as you have to protect yourself. (you are still married, so evaluate filing seperate or joint) If you file separate then make sure you take all the credits/deductions not her. And refund check goes to you in a separate account.
The IRS doesn't care what your situation is.
A wayward doesn't care either, they will take everything or worse ignore their responsibility.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
My experience with taxes is get to your accountant first!!!! Get an appt for the end of Jan or as soon as you get all your info. Get a real accountant, not some TV advertised junk. I found a new accountant when i got divorced and it was only $165.

You make the decision what you are going to do, as you have to protect yourself. (you are still married, so evaluate filing seperate or joint) If you file separate then make sure you take all the credits/deductions not her. And refund check goes to you in a separate account.
The IRS doesn't care what your situation is.
A wayward doesn't care either, they will take everything or worse ignore their responsibility.

OK I will explore this avenue soon (probably next week). We have always used an accountant. I will probably go to the same one and explain my situation now. My guess is that she has not given one thought to the subject, but who knows.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 02:48 PM
You'll probably get a bigger refund filing together, but what are you supposed to do if you can't contact your wife? In my case, my ex's lawyer insisted that we file separately, so I obliged and made sure as NebDane suggests above to get mine filed first.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
You'll probably get a bigger refund filing together, but what are you supposed to do if you can't contact your wife? In my case, my ex's lawyer insisted that we file separately, so I obliged and made sure as NebDane suggests above to get mine filed first.

Well, maybe by some off chance her W2 mails to our address. I doubt it though since things of this nature nowadays are done electronically.

I am betting that she may send me an email at a later date like "Email me your W2 so I can do our taxes." How great would it be to say, "Oh, I already did mine dear - feel free to complete your own."

Also, I noticed I cannot renew the tags on my (her) car without her SSN. So I guess its a good thing I talked to my parents about borrowing their car. Also, that will clear up any argument she has as to why I am not paying for that car: I could just say, "She never renewed the tags."

Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 05:17 PM
Another thing to be very wary of with waywards, is running up unauthorized debt or obligations in your name.
They know all your personal info including SSN, it is really easy to secure a credit card in your name with that info.

Get a credit check done every month, waywards are crazy, especially with money.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 05:20 PM
Using a CPA in your situation would be wise. You pay a little more upfront but avoid the grief that might come out of sloppy filing.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
Another thing to be very wary of with waywards, is running up unauthorized debt or obligations in your name.
They know all your personal info including SSN, it is really easy to secure a credit card in your name with that info.

Get a credit check done every month, waywards are crazy, especially with money.

This is really good insight here. She may try something like this because I have stopped making payments on the mortgage, the car and the car insurance ever since she took the savings account. Hopefully she starts asking OM for some extra money to pay some of my bills, might aid the destruction of the affair.

I am going to park the car out front locked, I'll keep the keys inside with me.

One day at a time...

Posted By: living_well Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
Another thing to be very wary of with waywards, is running up unauthorized debt or obligations in your name.
They know all your personal info including SSN, it is really easy to secure a credit card in your name with that info.

Get a credit check done every month, waywards are crazy, especially with money.


Freeze your credit with all three credit reporting agencies. Do it today. It costs nothing and she cannot get any joint debt without access to your credit report.

Better still, businesses pull credit reports when they have no business doing that so it is a great way to find out who is doing unauthorized credit checks on you. I caught my homeowner's insurance doing that recently!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/29/15 11:21 PM
On another note guys (&gals) - I am registered for a Half Marathon in April. I posted it to FB in case she sees it or someone relays it to her.

Now I got to train for it! It is my first distance race ever.
Posted By: Bellevue Re: My situation. - 12/30/15 04:30 PM
I have Lifelock. When I make a large purchase, I get a phone call from them within the hour, asking whether the transaction is valid. They are really on top of it!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/30/15 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Bellevue
I have Lifelock. When I make a large purchase, I get a phone call from them within the hour, asking whether the transaction is valid. They are really on top of it!

What is Lifelock? Do you pay extra for that service? Can you sign up for it online or something?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/30/15 08:23 PM
I looked up Lifelock - might be something I consider.

Man, I know it must get old but I just hit a wall today. I am thinking about her all afternoon here at work. Thinking about what her life must be like right now?
I know it sounds stupid, but my dogs are restless now because I don't play with them as much because of work and all this stress from this situation... and now they are becoming destructive. They chewed up a door yesterday while I was at work... I just looked at it in disbelief. My dad, and several others, have suggested just giving my dogs to her but I am afraid she would put them up for adoption or something while she is in the "fog."

I just am having a decent day, but I still just feel like I am "surviving" instead of really creating a new life. I know I am venting right now, pretty typical BS stuff too I am sure...

Just having a bad afternoon frown

The good thing is I am getting better at least at looking "OK" from an outsider's perspective.
Posted By: WalkTheWalk Re: My situation. - 12/30/15 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I looked up Lifelock - might be something I consider.

Man, I know it must get old but I just hit a wall today. I am thinking about her all afternoon here at work. Thinking about what her life must be like right now?
I know it sounds stupid, but my dogs are restless now because I don't play with them as much because of work and all this stress from this situation... and now they are becoming destructive. They chewed up a door yesterday while I was at work... I just looked at it in disbelief. My dad, and several others, have suggested just giving my dogs to her but I am afraid she would put them up for adoption or something while she is in the "fog."

I just am having a decent day, but I still just feel like I am "surviving" instead of really creating a new life. I know I am venting right now, pretty typical BS stuff too I am sure...

Just having a bad afternoon frown

The good thing is I am getting better at least at looking "OK" from an outsider's perspective.


WC, why don't you take up some activities that you have always wanted to but for whatever reason couldn't or re-take up something that you used to enjoy but dropped? Based on your screen name, maybe coach some wrestling or maybe try out Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? Lifting with a partner? Biking or running club? Something more intellectual like a professional certification? Tutoring? Volunteering at the foodbank...I don't know what floats your boat, but enjoying yourself will help just as much as the AA/AD pharmaceuticals.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 12/30/15 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by WalkTheWalk
WC, why don't you take up some activities that you have always wanted to but for whatever reason couldn't or re-take up something that you used to enjoy but dropped? Based on your screen name, maybe coach some wrestling or maybe try out Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? Lifting with a partner? Biking or running club? Something more intellectual like a professional certification? Tutoring? Volunteering at the foodbank...I don't know what floats your boat, but enjoying yourself will help just as much as the AA/AD pharmaceuticals.

I signed up for a half marathon last night, and I am getting involved with a local Crossfit training facility with my uncle...

Its just like every hour that passes actually takes 3 hours to me... Every day seems like an entire week. Once all these activities get started maybe time will go faster? Man I hope so. haha
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 01/01/16 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
my dogs are restless now because I don't play with them as much because of work and all this stress from this situation... and now they are becoming destructive. They chewed up a door yesterday while I was at work... I just looked at it in disbelief. My dad, and several others, have suggested just giving my dogs to her but I am afraid she would put them up for adoption or something while she is in the "fog."

Play with your dogs. It will de-stress you and them...win-win.
Posted By: AnyWife Re: My situation. - 01/02/16 05:00 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I know it sounds stupid, but my dogs are restless now because I don't play with them as much because of work and all this stress from this situation... and now they are becoming destructive. They chewed up a door yesterday while I was at work... I just looked at it in disbelief. My dad, and several others, have suggested just giving my dogs to her but I am afraid she would put them up for adoption or something while she is in the "fog."

This sounds like separation anxiety more than just restlessness.

There are a lot of conflicting theories about the cause and solution for this, but one I've read a lot is that based on the dynamic in the home, the dog gets it in his head that he's responsible for you. So when you're gone, the dog is frantic to get out and protect you, the way you would be if you were trapped in a house and your toddler was wandering around in traffic.

I imagine the separation has probably changed your interactions with the dogs, and their general stress level. Plus, your wife was always there, now she's suddenly not. Who knows what goes on in the dog's heads.

Like Black Raven said - playing with your dogs more will probably help both of you.

Also, you might Google "Doggy Dan" on the Internet. We have a very anxious pound pup who chewed the molding off the door while we were gone. Techniques in the online videos seem to be helpful. We also got our two dogs with the worst separation anxiety "Thunder Coats" that we put on them when we leave.

I would be afraid to give them to her right now too. Especially if they're having behavioral issues.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/02/16 05:44 AM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Play with your dogs. It will de-stress you and them...win-win.

Originally Posted by AnyWife
This sounds like separation anxiety more than just restlessness.

There are a lot of conflicting theories about the cause and solution for this, but one I've read a lot is that based on the dynamic in the home, the dog gets it in his head that he's responsible for you. So when you're gone, the dog is frantic to get out and protect you, the way you would be if you were trapped in a house and your toddler was wandering around in traffic.

Its funny because they actually chewed a hole in the door of the room I keep them in... And I would play with them more, but the weather here has been really crappy and my back yard is a swamp right now - so I don't have the same room to play with them.

Anyways, I talked to my mom to see if she could watch them during the day. I need to get way ahead a work and the hours I am away from the house are affecting the dogs. One of them is really weirdly always getting under the bed on her side - then he is stuck there (because he is a mastiff/boxer mix, and quite large). Almost like he is looking for her...

My other dog - the chewer - does actually have vet diagnosed separation anxiety. So now that I am gone for several more hours, and she never comes home, they are in their room for like 10-14 hours some days.

I will see if letting them stay with my mom during work helps their behavior (she has two dogs and five acres, much more fun for a dog than a 10'x10' room).

Its just added stress I was not ready to encounter... I feel bad bringing it up because I know their are people out there having to deal with children and real assets, and I am here complaining about my dogs... sorry I am not trying to waste your time.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/05/16 06:09 PM
My mom took my dogs today and offered to keep them over night to see how they behave around her two dogs at night. It opened up an opportunity for me to go to a workout that two of my other friends have been inviting me too for a while on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

I started looking at apartments, I just do not know if that is the best idea... I pay no mortgage right now because I am sticking her with it - but eventually I will need to pay it again or something. Do I really want to sign a lease agreement?

Some days, I feel like the house is pretty "trigger" free - but others, the house is absolutely overflowing with them. This morning I was trying to do some laundry before work and even the soap I was using was the kind that "she" liked and it set me off. I was just starting to get teary again over her. I still have some pictures of me and her up. Just walking around the house I remember conversations we had in certain places of the house, where she was standing, where I was standing, what we were talking about, etc. Some nights I sleep on the couch because I do not want to be in the bed where her and I were intimate... and naturally those are usually not my best nights of sleep.

I just am unsure as to whether the financial risk of an apartment is worth the escape from the fairly infrequent (but powerful) days where I am overwhelmed with the history we have in the house. Not to mention, the dogs will need new homes if I go with the apartment route.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/06/16 07:06 PM
A lot of you have invested a bit of time into my story so here is the most recent part.

Received a letter from my auto insurance that it has been terminated due to a check not clearing (automatic payment from an account she closed). I contacted my lawyer with the consultation from Herpapabear. Here is what I sent my lawyer.

I attached our new mortgage paperwork and the auto insurance termination documents to this email.


*Mr. Atty*,

It was confirmed to me recently that my wife moved to South Carolina to live with her affair partner. She has left me no way to contact her, however, she still has financial responsibilities here in Ohio.

I received this notice (attached) in the mail this week regarding our Auto Insurance and its termination. Please forward this to *my wife's attorney*

Also, express to her and her attorney that I have no intention of seeking out any coverage for the *car I was driving*. This was a vehicle brought into our marriage from my wife. I never wanted this vehicle and do not intend to pay any expenses associated with this vehicle. This *car* is not titled in my name, the loan is not in my name, tags are expired (as I could not renew) and it�s sitting out in front of our home. She can pick it up or do with it as she will�s, but, again, I do not intend to be responsible for this vehicle. Based on what I know, the *car* is now uninsured yet has a substantial loan against it. I�m sure this is in violation of her loan agreement. (This was a pre-marital asset and liability).

I�ve also attached a copy of our mortgage that was recently sold to a new company. I assume she will need these documents as well to remain current on the mortgage payments. (I have also been considering leaving the house soon as the emotional stress is becoming more than I can bear and need your advice as to how to deliver this news) Regretfully this is a house my wife wanted so desperately so she could be just a mile away from her parents. Against my better judgment at the time, I acquiesced. We see how well that has gone for me now.

Lastly, just checking up on the TRO violation case and its status. Hoping to hear it�s been dropped or thrown out.

Thank you so much for your time and consideration,
WrestlerChemist



I will keep you all posted as more events unfold. thanks everyone!
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 01/07/16 01:18 PM
Hang in there, WC. Are you exercising and eating right?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/07/16 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
Hang in there, WC. Are you exercising and eating right?

I am nmwb77, thanks for asking. Physically I have felt good lately. I am hanging in there smile
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 01/08/16 12:56 AM
Hang in there, WC.

The problems you included in this letter will lead to the types of consequences WW will soon begin to deal with. This is the power of Plan B and NC. Reality bites. Fog lifts.

You are not there to "pick up the pieces." Is OM going to fix all these messes for her? Maybe. Probably not. He's enjoying dessert without having to pay for the meal....

Love Busters abound when they begin "disagreeing" about things like this. Sit back and wait for the show to begin.

Oh, and while you wait, enjoy yourself, play with the doggies, recharge and re-strengthen yourself, engage in activities you enjoy (like training for the run), build yourself up - inside and out!

God Bless,
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/08/16 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
Hang in there, WC.

The problems you included in this letter will lead to the types of consequences WW will soon begin to deal with. This is the power of Plan B and NC. Reality bites. Fog lifts.

You are not there to "pick up the pieces." Is OM going to fix all these messes for her? Maybe. Probably not. He's enjoying dessert without having to pay for the meal....

Love Busters abound when they begin "disagreeing" about things like this. Sit back and wait for the show to begin.

Oh, and while you wait, enjoy yourself, play with the doggies, recharge and re-strengthen yourself, engage in activities you enjoy (like training for the run), build yourself up - inside and out!

God Bless,

The funny thing is I never really went into Plan B... She just kind of cut me out completely...

Dr. Harley said I need to wait until OM messes up or offends her. So thats what I am planning on doing!

Thanks for the encouragement OlderWiser. laugh
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/08/16 03:04 PM
So I shared this with SexyMamaBear, but I wanted to add it to my post so its in my story. I am sure she won't mind smile

It is a little graphic, but I kept it detailed because it was pretty powerful to me. Especially while it was fresh on my mind.

____________________

Two nights ago I woke up like super late in the morning, and lost control. Lost control of the thoughts about my wife. Completely lost control! I was desperately trying to stop but it was frivolous. It started pretty harmless, just memories about vacation and other minor memories. Then it progressed until I thought about every inch of her. How her toes curl during sex, how her breathing changes, how she smells, how she'd grab me, etc. I could not stop... Of course this immediately turned into me watching "THEM" have sex in a room with me in the corner (it was a room in a house we stayed on a vacation once). I could not get a grip on it, I was out of control - my mind even started inventing him laughing at me, while they were having sex... it was horrible.

I was crying so I went into the bathroom and started filling up the bathtub. I thought about trying to drown myself (I do not think I really could have done it)... I just wanted all of it to stop. Instead I just started praying. Praying hard... I still got in the tub - the prayer did not stop me from the thought of drowning myself...

I was in the bathtub, pitch black bathroom, praying. Instead I just thought about cleansing myself. I thought, I am a new creature. All the doubts of whether I am better than I was or not... cleansed. I just sat there in the tub and stopped crying... then I prayed some more about being made a new person, getting a hold of these thoughts. I prayed that God would wash the thoughts of that night down the drain when I unplugged the tub.

I essentially then just baptized myself. I came out of the water and felt different.... my skin felt different. My thoughts were clear... God answers prayers.

I am rattled a little bit by that night, but I think I really understand that I can be a better child of God with out my wife. I still want her in my life, but as of 01-06-2016 I really started the change - the old WrestlerChemist has been left behind (hopefully) and I really hope I can stay on this path. One that is good for me and ultimately good enough for my wife OR any woman that God puts in my life...
______________________

I have you guys to thank, and I expressed this to SMB (and HPB) that had I never found MarriageBuilders and this community - maybe I would have drowned myself two nights ago. You guys are life savers. I can't express enough how appreciative I am of the encouragement and support you have given me during my story.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 01/08/16 03:49 PM
I'm glad you shared this experience with us, WC!

NOW you're on the path to healing, with God's help! I went through this process, too! (but without the "drowning" part), and spend many nights sitting and crying and praying in my bubble bath).
Praying for you, brother.

God Bless,
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 01/08/16 05:33 PM
Do not let it be lost on you that January 6 is the Feast of the Epiphany....
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/08/16 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
Do not let it be lost on you that January 6 is the Feast of the Epiphany....

Wow... I didn't even put that together brits. That's awesome.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 01/10/16 06:36 AM
Thanks for the honesty WC.

As this goes on I think you'll find being a Christian BS is primarily a spiritual battle, even after the dark legal clouds and raw emotions fade or scatter.

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

Ephesians 6:12

None of us ask to join this club but we find ourselves here nonetheless and there lies tremendous opportunity for spiritual growth and strengthening, if we are only willing.

Hang in there and lean on Him. I also found the MB books/materials a tremendous comfort in the waiting period. Good skills to hone until the opportunity presents itself to use them, will give you confidence.

Also praying for you.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/11/16 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
NOW you're on the path to healing, with God's help!

Originally Posted by axslinger85
As this goes on I think you'll find being a Christian BS is primarily a spiritual battle, even after the dark legal clouds and raw emotions fade or scatter.

Hang in there and lean on Him. I also found the MB books/materials a tremendous comfort in the waiting period. Good skills to hone until the opportunity presents itself to use them, will give you confidence.
Also praying for you.

I am just scared... I know eventually I will see her again. I am just scared of how it is going to go...

The legal battle, I am scared of thinking about it. I look at our case docket often and when I see new motions, notices, etc filed by her it just gets me anxious and afraid.

She filed a Notice of Submission on 1-08-16 and the .pdf has not been uploaded to the Public records yet. I been freaking myself out thinking about what it is... I do not even really know what a notice of that nature refers to.

I tried to stop taking my AA's because they were making me sick to the stomach, but I like feel apart in nervousness at work on Friday when I tried...

Just highs and lows... today has been kind of a low for me...

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/11/16 10:01 PM
Does anyone have a link to a thread or article regarding the "carrot and the stick" ?

I would like some reading material as I address things throughout this legal battle...

Maybe its not relevant. I dont know smirk
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 01/11/16 11:21 PM
A Notice of Submission is what you file when you don't want an oral hearing and want the judge to decide an issue on the pleadings and briefs submitted to the Court....basically just saying I don't need a hearing, everything you need to decide it is in the paperwork.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/11/16 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
A Notice of Submission is what you file when you don't want an oral hearing and want the judge to decide an issue on the pleadings and briefs submitted to the Court....basically just saying I don't need a hearing, everything you need to decide it is in the paperwork.

So maybe she filed that for the TRO violation she started - which the hearing is scheduled for 01-22-16. She probably does not want to come back from South Carolina.

My attorney has told me that she will have to file new affidavit for her new job and living situation - so it is unlikely that she thinks she has filed everything for the entire divorce case.

Is it possible she just filed that notice of submission is just for the TRO case? My attorney already has told me he is like 99% sure that the TRO violation is getting thrown out anyways...

Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 01:45 AM
If she doesn't show up to defend the TRO filing, it is probably going to get thrown out. Every jurisdiction is different but that's what happened in my case. Both my ex and her OM filed ROs against me in separate filings (OM after I confronted and embarrassed him at his business, ex shortly after exposure for having snooped on her).

OM didn't show up to plead at his RO hearing and it was thrown out. My ex did show up and kept pushing her case, and that RO case was only sunk after I filed for divorce.

On stuff to read to prep for your legal battle, I would search the forums and read around on some other member's threads. There is so much collective experience on this forum dealing with the topic, it's really pretty amazing. Just the current crop of frequent posters barely scratches the surface of the amount of wisdom and experience here.
Posted By: typicalman Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 11:55 AM
I would just tell you what my defense was;

Afidavit from marriage councilor stating that there was an affair going on. My wife never presented as fearful and was sure of herself and never expressed any threats or fear for her plus physical safety. We also discussed exposing her affair in counceling as a next step to try to heal the marriage.

Afidavit from neighbor stating that wife never made any complaint about fear for her safety and never observed anything out of the ordinary.

Then, get a copy of the Afidavit given by the wife to the court. My attorney was able to use that against her because it was a bunch of lies... eventually, lies fall apart.

My wife stated that I was trying to confine her to the house because I was making repairs to the car. A simple admission that we have 3 cars and she always had another car to drive showed clearly that she was lying about being confined.

The exposure letter itself shows that no threat to her safety was made.

I would suggest that you submit these types of documents to help in your defence.

My TRO was thrown out by a very liberal judge. The judge asked my WW to let me see my children and she still refused and went on to say that the children don't need their father. I spent the money to have all this testimony transcribed and we used it later in court against her. She was caught lieing on the stand in a later temporary custody hearing when she denied saying these things.

My advice to you is to provide documentation... it's always an up hill battle for the man in these hearings, but documentation is your best defence. Also, let your WW bury herself... lies wont stand the test of time.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by typicalman
I would just tell you what my defense was;

Afidavit from marriage councilor stating that there was an affair going on. My wife never presented as fearful and was sure of herself and never expressed any threats or fear for her plus physical safety. We also discussed exposing her affair in counceling as a next step to try to heal the marriage.

Afidavit from neighbor stating that wife never made any complaint about fear for her safety and never observed anything out of the ordinary.

Then, get a copy of the Afidavit given by the wife to the court. My attorney was able to use that against her because it was a bunch of lies... eventually, lies fall apart.

My wife stated that I was trying to confine her to the house because I was making repairs to the car. A simple admission that we have 3 cars and she always had another car to drive showed clearly that she was lying about being confined.

The exposure letter itself shows that no threat to her safety was made.

I would suggest that you submit these types of documents to help in your defence.

My TRO was thrown out by a very liberal judge. The judge asked my WW to let me see my children and she still refused and went on to say that the children don't need their father. I spent the money to have all this testimony transcribed and we used it later in court against her. She was caught lieing on the stand in a later temporary custody hearing when she denied saying these things.

My advice to you is to provide documentation... it's always an up hill battle for the man in these hearings, but documentation is your best defence. Also, let your WW bury herself... lies wont stand the test of time.

I did not cite adultery in the case - I only denied Incompatibility. In Ohio adultery in not illegal. Additionally my attorney said if I wanted to cite adultery it would only help facilitate divorce (it would be like I am filing for divorce myself)

I am doing nothing to defend myself from the TRO violation for two reasons: 1) its going to get thrown out 2) if it doesn't get thrown out, I probably won't get fine or jailed - only a smack on the wrist.

I had a talk with HPB last night and it cooled me off a little bit today. The thing is - which some of you have commented on - is I like to "follow the rules."

I battle with sticking my wife with a mortgage payment, if she doesn't pay it, I am at a mental war with paying it myself (which enables her). I battle with "taking the gloves off " which I need to do sometimes to save myself through all this.

Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 05:14 PM
Do not take a TRO lightly, ever. It will be used against you in the future.
Fight it, it is your character, integrity, morality, etc, that is being questioned.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Does anyone have a link to a thread or article regarding the "carrot and the stick" ?

I would like some reading material as I address things throughout this legal battle...

Maybe its not relevant. I dont know smirk
The "carrot and stick" is a dated metaphor that Dr. Harley has directly addressed on the radio show a little over a year ago. Plan A does not have a "stick" in that there is no punishment involved. Since Dr. Harley has said so directly that he doesn't like the metaphor, I don't think it is a good idea to place too much stock in it.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
Do not take a TRO lightly, ever. It will be used against you in the future.
Fight it, it is your character, integrity, morality, etc, that is being questioned.

I do not want to mislead anyone. I took the TRO violation case very serious, asked my attorney if we should start gathering a list of people to send interrogatories to, start the process of gathering her phone records, text messages, etc. if he would need the letters and list of people I exposed to and everything of that nature. What I was trying to say is my attorney said that would be wasted money because he believes the case is going to get thrown out. I asked him to make sure it does and he said he would.

Especially if she does not come back from SC to persecute further, the case is going to get tossed.

The notice of submission she filed last week is still not uploaded to the public record yet. I will update you all when I find out what it is for (my guess it is relating to the TRO violation case).

Last week I sent my atty a car insurance cancellation notice, our new mortgage company information (our mortgage was sold to another company), and the homeowner's insurance cancellation notice. All the cancellation notices were due to lack of payment. I sent my attorney all these documents to forward to her attorney because I have no way of contacting her now.

I got her attorney's response yesterday:

Hi *WC's attorney*,
I am in receipt of this email and your previous email regarding the car insurance. The issue with the car insurance payment was a mistake on the part of the agent.

My client was completely unaware of the cancellation of house insurance included in this email. My client is taking care of the insurance premium, but will no longer be covering the mortgage payment, the next of which will be due February 1, 2016.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thank you,
*WW attorney*


HPB, Mr. Wondering and myself are working on what I am going to say back. As of now, I will probably say something along the lines of "I cannot afford the mortgage, it will go into default." My wife is HPB's niece and we both are thinking that if she hears I am not paying it, she will continue to pay it. My wife takes finances very very serious, and Credit is basically her god right now. Worst thing that can happen is she does not pay it and we both get our credit shot... but no matter what, I am not paying it.

To pressure her relationship in SC even more, she will be responsible for both of our brand new cars' payments, the car insurance for them and our mortgage payment. Additionally, she is at a lower paying job and might be paying rent somewhere (or she moved in with OM).

I will update you all as I find out more information. I think I am having a decent day today.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
The "carrot and stick" is a dated metaphor that Dr. Harley has directly addressed on the radio show a little over a year ago. Plan A does not have a "stick" in that there is no punishment involved. Since Dr. Harley has said so directly that he doesn't like the metaphor, I don't think it is a good idea to place too much stock in it.

I have been told that I should use finances as sort of a "stick." Like, she still has responsibilities here in OH, therefore do not enable her by paying the mortgage etc. A set of bills kind of act like a "stick" while my Plan A behavior with any interaction we have is kind of the "carrot."

Maybe I misunderstood the full message behind the "carrot and the stick."

Thanks for the clarification MrE.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 06:41 PM
More like natural consequences. You dont pay a mortgage; it goes into default. This is not a punishment, but a natural consequences.
Posted By: typicalman Re: My situation. - 01/12/16 08:53 PM
I ended up giving my WW $20k to bring my kids back home and avoid a court trial to get them back home. A court trial would have been full of lovebusters. On the other hand, I funded her affair for the summer. I regret that part of it. A WW will just burn through money and not give a care. With the 20k and all the legal costs, it was enough wealth she destroyed to buy another house. I think you are doing the right thing... don't give her a cent, don't save her from any financial consequences. Don't even talk to her about it if she contacts you. Let the OM shoulder the burden of this. I wish I had fought harder to keep money out of her hands. Use your money on yourself to do something that makes you happy.

It seemed to me that any financial help made 0 love bank deposits... she felt entitled to that plus more. She became relentless putting her bills on front of my face and asking me to pay it. It created more problems and love busters... because I became like a father and her a child asking for money. Other posters can help... but maybe it's better to do what you are doing and not even let this start.

Also, I read the family code in my state. Although she stated she was entitled to 50% of my income, that is not true. You can spend your income as if you are single. Only on divorce are assets split 50/50. I found nothing in my state laws that required me to fund her affair.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/13/16 01:38 PM
The notice of submission was for my wife's first set of interrogatories and Production of documents. The .pdf was uploaded the public records and I received them from my attorney last night late.

frown
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/15/16 04:35 PM
Just sent my attorney my response to my wife's answer -


*WC's atty*,

I am not in a position to pay the mortgage, and will not be paying it if my wife continues to pursue this divorce. I accept that it may go into default/delinquency. Additionally, I will be leaving the house if she continues to pursue the divorce.

As for the Interrogatory and Production of Documents, how long could I really wait on these to slow it down? I know the due date is stated as Jan. 28th, but how long do I really have? Is it possible to just wait until they file another motion requiring me to answer them? Please advise.


It is still my assumption that she will find a way to make sure the house does not go into default to save her credit - whether it be extreme financial pressure on herself, the OM pays for it, she asks her dad for help, etc. Regardless, its a stress on the affair.

IF she does not pay it and it does go into default, it will just destroy her and I's credit, which I am OK with... I will survive, will she???? whistle

Also, still trying to slow the divorce down with what I can, saw an opportunity with the interrogatory so thought I would ask about it.

Also, her attorney had another hearing on the original date of our pretrial (feb. 1st) and filed a motion for continuance at another date. The court just released the new pretrial date, which to my delight is an entire month later, Feb. 29th.

Have a good weekend guys (and gals)
Posted By: typicalman Re: My situation. - 01/16/16 11:24 PM
WC,
I would just say this... try to think carefully about how you handle the finances etc.. and do your best to take the emotions out of it. Think about what is in your best interest and if you really want to ruin your credit.

I'll give you an example.. I am really mad that I am getting stuck with bills for everything.. it's so unfair and I don't see a penny of my wife's paycheck.. I know that through a divorce process, whatever she is hording ends up half mine and whatever I pay in bills is money that she won't get.

I am really frustrated that there is a third car in her name and I am still paying the taxes and insurance on it.. My lawyer tells me that I have to because I used to pay it.. so it looks bad if I cut it off. I am already paying the insurance and maintenance on another vehicle she is driving. When the divorce is over though.. that all goes away.

But through all this, I'm not ruining my credit nor digging the hole any deeper. It sounds like your divorce will be over soon too... so just be careful you don't end up shooting yourself in the foot just to teach her financial responsibility.. that will come on her soon enough. Your lawyer will hopefully give you the right legal advice... and trust me, what I have been told by my lawyer seems so unfair.. but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

If she is successful with divorcing you, the good thing is that you become 100% free from her reckless decisions and it will all fall on her. I just avoid thinking about all the destruction and everything my WW has taken, but rather think about what I will be left with and focus on preserving that... (my career, my kids, the person I can look at in the mirror every day) she can't take this stuff away unless you let her.
Posted By: zibbles Re: My situation. - 01/17/16 05:13 PM
A question for you and something to ponder. Is it possible that one of the things your wife didn't like about the marriage was a lack of financial partnership? You've made references about lots of bills being in her name, her having all the financial info/passwords, the importance she placed on her credit, etc. These strike me as signs that you were letting her take the lead with the finances. You were dependent on her to manage and organize this part of your lives, which may have contributed to her losing her love for you.

If this idea resonates with you at all, please consider trying to manage these assets wisely in her absence. You are not drawing her back by allowing the house to go into foreclosure. If she has the impression that you don't have your stuff together money-wise, this will only make things worse.

Is there any way you can rent the house out or put it up for sale? Handling the finances with maturity on your end might help win you some respect. It's a good plan A move. I personally don't think you should use the house as a 'stick'. It would be different if you were the big breadwinner and the one handling the money up to this point. If she were dependent on you for money, you could use money as a stick but there are hints in your thread that suggest the opposite, that you are dependent on her financially. Letting it all fall apart will only reinforce the idea that you are not a good partner financially.

In addition, letting the house go into foreclosure HURTS YOU. It sounds like you have a bit of debt from college, etc already. Protect yourself here.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/18/16 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by zibbles
A question for you and something to ponder. Is it possible that one of the things your wife didn't like about the marriage was a lack of financial partnership? You've made references about lots of bills being in her name, her having all the financial info/passwords, the importance she placed on her credit, etc. These strike me as signs that you were letting her take the lead with the finances. You were dependent on her to manage and organize this part of your lives, which may have contributed to her losing her love for you.

My wife is the primary on all of our accounts for two reasons:
1) she does not like snail mail, I love snail mail - so she set up all the direct debits.

2) I made her the primary on everything. I always wanted her to know that she was my everything. She knew this. I also always thought that I would be the "one to mess up" and I told her I want her to be able to have it all in case that happened. *irony overload!


Originally Posted by zibbles
Is there any way you can rent the house out or put it up for sale? Handling the finances with maturity on your end might help win you some respect. It's a good plan A move. I personally don't think you should use the house as a 'stick'. It would be different if you were the big breadwinner and the one handling the money up to this point. If she were dependent on you for money, you could use money as a stick but there are hints in your thread that suggest the opposite, that you are dependent on her financially. Letting it all fall apart will only reinforce the idea that you are not a good partner financially.

In addition, letting the house go into foreclosure HURTS YOU. It sounds like you have a bit of debt from college, etc already. Protect yourself here.

Its a violation of the TRO to put the house up for sale. I could rent it, but then I have no where to live. Also, who signs a lease on the basis that "oh by the way, my psychotic wayward wife may come back a throw you out - or at least break through a window... just for your information"


I did not mean to make it sound like we were not a financial "team" we are in a situation where we have never missed a payment on anything - but we are living in a situation that requires two incomes. Before the affair our income was probably 60% her and 40% me. Her job in SC pays way less than the one she had though, so it'd be more like 70% me and 30% her. Of course if she came back she would have go into a completely different job path... No business trips or anything like that.

Foreclosure only hurts me a little bit I suppose... My credit takes a hit but I am young. We both have great credit, albeit hers is better.

I have thought about it all. Would it be a good idea for me to pay for everything? the house? the cars? the car insurance? Maybe... But we made financial decisions that required two incomes. I could afford it and be miserable, she used to be able to afford it, now probably can't and will need OM's help. She has responsibilities here in Ohio, her fantasy was she was going to walk away from it all and start over... WRONG.

I pay all the things I am the primary on still... gas, electric, cable & internet, student loans, water and my phone now.

IF anything has her name on it, with me as the secondary, I have completely left it on her, to pressure that relationship. What OM wants to pay bills he does not have with money he could be using to buy married women drinks with at the bar ???

sorry if I sound defensive zibbles. I appreciate what you are saying...
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/18/16 12:24 AM
Also, she has left me know way to pay half... Or any confidence that she would honor it. There is no way for me to give the mortgage holder a check for half, and know that she is going to pay the other half...

And there is no way I am sending her a check for any amount of money whatsoever.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 01/18/16 01:43 AM
There needs to be some temporary orders with the court, your attorney needs to do something and you need to tell him.
If you can't afford all those joint items and she is contributing nothing, then petition the court.
Lovebusters or not, you are not obligated to financial hardship due to a wayward.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/18/16 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by NebDane
There needs to be some temporary orders with the court, your attorney needs to do something and you need to tell him.
If you can't afford all those joint items and she is contributing nothing, then petition the court.
Lovebusters or not, you are not obligated to financial hardship due to a wayward.

its the exact opposite... she cannot afford those items and I am contributing nothing to them.

The only action my wife has taken has been to have her attorney tell mine that she will "no longer be covering the mortgage starting Feb. 1st"
Posted By: typicalman Re: My situation. - 01/18/16 03:34 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by NebDane
There needs to be some temporary orders with the court, your attorney needs to do something and you need to tell him.
If you can't afford all those joint items and she is contributing nothing, then petition the court.
Lovebusters or not, you are not obligated to financial hardship due to a wayward.

its the exact opposite... she cannot afford those items and I am contributing nothing to them.

The only action my wife has taken has been to have her attorney tell mine that she will "no longer be covering the mortgage starting Feb. 1st"

I'm not an attorney... but in my state, I was advised my my attorney to keep paying everything I was paying before.. insurance, mortgage, utilities, etc.. the standard court orders require spouses to basically continue paying what they were paying. I don't believe she could simply declare that she will stop paying the mortgage... that just doesn't sound right. I would get some good legal advice on these things and don't just let it go. Don't let a WW drag you down. If she is anything like my WW, she will push and push and test and test to see what she can get away with and then try more.
Posted By: living_well Re: My situation. - 01/18/16 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by typicalman
I don't believe she could simply declare that she will stop paying the mortgage... that just doesn't sound right.


My XH did exactly that. Because I was not employed, I had to take the money out of my IRA. The court did precisely . . . nothing.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 01/18/16 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by zibbles
A question for you and something to ponder. Is it possible that one of the things your wife didn't like about the marriage was a lack of financial partnership? You've made references about lots of bills being in her name, her having all the financial info/passwords, the importance she placed on her credit, etc. These strike me as signs that you were letting her take the lead with the finances. You were dependent on her to manage and organize this part of your lives, which may have contributed to her losing her love for you.

My wife is the primary on all of our accounts for two reasons:
1) she does not like snail mail, I love snail mail - so she set up all the direct debits.

2) I made her the primary on everything. I always wanted her to know that she was my everything. She knew this. I also always thought that I would be the "one to mess up" and I told her I want her to be able to have it all in case that happened. *irony overload!


Originally Posted by zibbles
Is there any way you can rent the house out or put it up for sale? Handling the finances with maturity on your end might help win you some respect. It's a good plan A move. I personally don't think you should use the house as a 'stick'. It would be different if you were the big breadwinner and the one handling the money up to this point. If she were dependent on you for money, you could use money as a stick but there are hints in your thread that suggest the opposite, that you are dependent on her financially. Letting it all fall apart will only reinforce the idea that you are not a good partner financially.

In addition, letting the house go into foreclosure HURTS YOU. It sounds like you have a bit of debt from college, etc already. Protect yourself here.

Its a violation of the TRO to put the house up for sale. I could rent it, but then I have no where to live. Also, who signs a lease on the basis that "oh by the way, my psychotic wayward wife may come back a throw you out - or at least break through a window... just for your information"


I did not mean to make it sound like we were not a financial "team" we are in a situation where we have never missed a payment on anything - but we are living in a situation that requires two incomes. Before the affair our income was probably 60% her and 40% me. Her job in SC pays way less than the one she had though, so it'd be more like 70% me and 30% her. Of course if she came back she would have go into a completely different job path... No business trips or anything like that.

Foreclosure only hurts me a little bit I suppose... My credit takes a hit but I am young. We both have great credit, albeit hers is better.

I have thought about it all. Would it be a good idea for me to pay for everything? the house? the cars? the car insurance? Maybe... But we made financial decisions that required two incomes. I could afford it and be miserable, she used to be able to afford it, now probably can't and will need OM's help. She has responsibilities here in Ohio, her fantasy was she was going to walk away from it all and start over... WRONG.

I pay all the things I am the primary on still... gas, electric, cable & internet, student loans, water and my phone now.

IF anything has her name on it, with me as the secondary, I have completely left it on her, to pressure that relationship. What OM wants to pay bills he does not have with money he could be using to buy married women drinks with at the bar ???

sorry if I sound defensive zibbles. I appreciate what you are saying...

I think you are taking the right course of action, WC.

You've got a dream team of SMB, HPB and MrW helping you, I really trust any advice they would give you - they never steered me wrong and helped me navigate several legal/wayward issues.

Also, (and, zibbles, this is not directed towards you...I know you were referring more to how he handle his finances now!) I truly believe deep in my heart that your WW is very much like my ex WH (and I don't say this lightly to anybody) You could have been doing everything 100% correctly in your M but with her loose boundaries, she still would have ended up in this affair. Dr Harley also believed your WW was happy in the M at the time of the A. Don't end up beating yourself up for things you could have done differently - that's not healthy for you right now.

Anyway, hang in there, you sound much better than you did a few weeks ago.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/19/16 12:11 AM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
I think you are taking the right course of action, WC.

You've got a dream team of SMB, HPB and MrW helping you, I really trust any advice they would give you - they never steered me wrong and helped me navigate several legal/wayward issues.

Also, (and, zibbles, this is not directed towards you...I know you were referring more to how he handle his finances now!) I truly believe deep in my heart that your WW is very much like my ex WH (and I don't say this lightly to anybody) You could have been doing everything 100% correctly in your M but with her loose boundaries, she still would have ended up in this affair. Dr Harley also believed your WW was happy in the M at the time of the A. Don't end up beating yourself up for things you could have done differently - that's not healthy for you right now.

Anyway, hang in there, you sound much better than you did a few weeks ago.

SuzieQ thanks for checking in. I am doing much better (I think). I do have some very awesome supporters.

And I still have only paid my attorney $1k smile

I told my Atty today that I would appreciate if he lets my wifes Atty know I'm filing taxes "Married/seperate" so she can make appropriate arrangements.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/20/16 05:21 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
SuzieQ thanks for checking in. I am doing much better (I think). I do have some very awesome supporters.

*foot in mouth - Warning, normal anger and venting incoming. mad


Wow am I mad. Bad day at work - unrelated to this martial conflict - has led me to coming in late after dinner. I will probably be in the lab all night. I just clocked in again at like 11:30pm and I will probably be leaving normal time tomorrow (4-5:30pm ish). That is not why I am angry... In fact, its not all that bad at work. Some of my analysts that I supervise really messed up today so I am playing damage control at work.

But, the overnight work today and extra toll on my body is just thrown me into a complete angry fit. I am so mad at my wife because I need help around the house. When I work late or extra hours now, I have no help! My dogs need attention. I have so much laundry I was planning on completing tonight. I wanted to clean around the house... but I can't! Everything gets cleaned up half as fast now (albeit the messes accumulate half as fast too). I went home after work to let the dogs out and get some dinner (skipped lunch at work today) and they had got into the trash... so I am cleaning that up - just fuming in angry as my wife just vacations with OM in SC. Its like -5 degrees outside and she is in South Carolina where they are still getting mid 50s. It rains every other day it seems and the dogs track mud inside, so I have to clean that up... I have zero groceries in the house...

It was supposed to be a team effort! We agreed to maintain all this together! When she works late, I do the laundry, dishes and take the dogs for a walk... When I work late she did the same. Now, I work and the freaking house falls apart?! I get home exhausted from work and stress of all this and the work cannot be divided up, because there is only one - me.

I vented to SMB today that I want to call my attorney and request to the Judge/Magistrate that they throw out my wife's divorce request to replace it with mine - one that says "Adultery committed by wife" instead of "Incompatibility." For the first time I am just absolutely livid pissed about this whole thing...

She abandoned me to go do Lord knows what, and I am left here cleaning up the life that we created - the life meant to have two people working together. During this marriage, one thing that always got mentioned by my wife and her dad was how much more "mature" she was than me. Her dad was always telling me "My daughter is 10 years ahead of everyone her age in maturity." Well, if I ever saw him again I would say "Your daughter is acting like a freaking 3 year old at Walmart crying that she can't get a box of Oreos." I am so far ahead of her in maturity its silly now... And every day I am just distancing myself in that department.

So... here I am at work... about to go 16-17 hours straight. I did not want to try to do that with all this on my heart. I am mad. I feel like it needed documented. I feel better already typing it. I am going to just turn on my KLove and zone out here at work. She does not deserve the real estate in my head right now...

And I hope POSOM, I don't know, trips and falls down at work or something... ugh.


*decompresses slightly...


Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 01/21/16 12:09 AM
I am kinda amazed it took you this long to get to the anger stage. lol. I was at it very early on.

I remember seeing a mug from my WxH's workplace (a career that took him years to be qualified for that I help him achieve - a career that fed his OS admiration needs and made his A possible)...it triggered immense anger and I walked outside and smashed it on the drive way. I'm not suggesting you do this! But this happened in the first couple weeks after dday. (Now this story makes me laugh)

If you are like me, you will vacillate between this, frustration and sadness for a little while. Hang in there, WC.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 01/21/16 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
SuzieQ thanks for checking in. I am doing much better (I think). I do have some very awesome supporters.

*foot in mouth - Warning, normal anger and venting incoming. mad


Wow am I mad. Bad day at work - unrelated to this martial conflict - has led me to coming in late after dinner. I will probably be in the lab all night. I just clocked in again at like 11:30pm and I will probably be leaving normal time tomorrow (4-5:30pm ish). That is not why I am angry... In fact, its not all that bad at work. Some of my analysts that I supervise really messed up today so I am playing damage control at work.

But, the overnight work today and extra toll on my body is just thrown me into a complete angry fit. I am so mad at my wife because I need help around the house. When I work late or extra hours now, I have no help! My dogs need attention. I have so much laundry I was planning on completing tonight. I wanted to clean around the house... but I can't! Everything gets cleaned up half as fast now (albeit the messes accumulate half as fast too). I went home after work to let the dogs out and get some dinner (skipped lunch at work today) and they had got into the trash... so I am cleaning that up - just fuming in angry as my wife just vacations with OM in SC. Its like -5 degrees outside and she is in South Carolina where they are still getting mid 50s. It rains every other day it seems and the dogs track mud inside, so I have to clean that up... I have zero groceries in the house...

It was supposed to be a team effort! We agreed to maintain all this together! When she works late, I do the laundry, dishes and take the dogs for a walk... When I work late she did the same. Now, I work and the freaking house falls apart?! I get home exhausted from work and stress of all this and the work cannot be divided up, because there is only one - me.

I vented to SMB today that I want to call my attorney and request to the Judge/Magistrate that they throw out my wife's divorce request to replace it with mine - one that says "Adultery committed by wife" instead of "Incompatibility." For the first time I am just absolutely livid pissed about this whole thing...

She abandoned me to go do Lord knows what, and I am left here cleaning up the life that we created - the life meant to have two people working together. During this marriage, one thing that always got mentioned by my wife and her dad was how much more "mature" she was than me. Her dad was always telling me "My daughter is 10 years ahead of everyone her age in maturity." Well, if I ever saw him again I would say "Your daughter is acting like a freaking 3 year old at Walmart crying that she can't get a box of Oreos." I am so far ahead of her in maturity its silly now... And every day I am just distancing myself in that department.

So... here I am at work... about to go 16-17 hours straight. I did not want to try to do that with all this on my heart. I am mad. I feel like it needed documented. I feel better already typing it. I am going to just turn on my KLove and zone out here at work. She does not deserve the real estate in my head right now...

And I hope POSOM, I don't know, trips and falls down at work or something... ugh.

*decompresses slightly...

I thought your mom was going to help with the dogs?

Can she come to your house sometime?
Maybe help with the laundry?

Just trying to problem solve, WC. If these questions seem intrusive....I apologize.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/21/16 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
I thought your mom was going to help with the dogs?

Can she come to your house sometime?
Maybe help with the laundry?

Just trying to problem solve, WC. If these questions seem intrusive....I apologize.

Older. I don't find these intrusive at all thanks for asking.

My mom has really bad back problems and been in and out of the hospital a lot recently. Additionally she has been in "detox" from her alcoholism she decided to quit recently. My mom adds a ton of extra stress to my life.

I do take my dogs over to her house a few times a week, but she cannot really travel so its hard to ask her to come to my house. If I alternate days (one at hers, one left at mine) with the dogs, they usually sleep at mine and tire themselves out at hers (with her two dogs and 5 acres). But, in the instance I work 15 hours, they just get restless and get into trouble.

As my mom gets healthier, she might be able to let them out for lunch and play with them a little bit. She would love to do my laundry I am sure, but I can't get myself to allow her to. I am adult, I do not want mommy doing my laundry.

I just got mad the other day, convinced myself that everything was her fault - down to the dogs... haha
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/23/16 03:47 AM
Checked the public docket again today - my wife filed a few things, no .pdfs yet.

Can anyone educate me one what a Lave to Appear in Abstentia is?

Does that mean the attorney is just going to represent her and she is not going to show up?

frown


Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 01/23/16 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by OlderWiser
I thought your mom was going to help with the dogs?

Can she come to your house sometime?
Maybe help with the laundry?

Just trying to problem solve, WC. If these questions seem intrusive....I apologize.

Older. I don't find these intrusive at all thanks for asking.

My mom has really bad back problems and been in and out of the hospital a lot recently. Additionally she has been in "detox" from her alcoholism she decided to quit recently. My mom adds a ton of extra stress to my life.

I do take my dogs over to her house a few times a week, but she cannot really travel so its hard to ask her to come to my house. If I alternate days (one at hers, one left at mine) with the dogs, they usually sleep at mine and tire themselves out at hers (with her two dogs and 5 acres). But, in the instance I work 15 hours, they just get restless and get into trouble.

As my mom gets healthier, she might be able to let them out for lunch and play with them a little bit. She would love to do my laundry I am sure, but I can't get myself to allow her to. I am adult, I do not want mommy doing my laundry.

I just got mad the other day, convinced myself that everything was her fault - down to the dogs... haha

Thanks for clarifying that, WC. I didn't realize your mom was having a bad way, too.

As far as laundry, I usually put mine in to wash cycle right before I go to bed....that way it's being done while I rest - :P I put clothes in dryer while I shower in the morning....seems easier to handle laundry right out of the shower, since I am "handling" clothes anyway (ie: getting dressed!). lol

As far as the dogs, I had a similar situation when WH left. We had six very large dogs in dog runs in our yard (we had literally been living in our new "dream home" for 1 month when he left). I was left with all the bills as well as taking care, cleaning, etc. for the new 1-acre yard and all the dogs. I found someone to do the yard and someone else to come over and care for them while I was at work....it wasn't a professional or anything, so it wasn't outrageously priced, but a young woman who did it for a very reasonable price. Maybe you can find a young man in your neighborhood who would dog-walk for you on your long days at work? Check with the local churches nearby. They could probably recommend someone trustworthy.

The gentleman who became my yard man was the husband of a colleague from work, and he was just starting out his lawn business, so he gave me a great rate.

Again, just trying to think outside the box for you! Trying to help alleviate some of your stress....we all know what it feels like to be left holding the bag. When your WS is cavorting all over creation, they seem not to remember about all the responsibilities they left behind and what it means for YOU!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/25/16 03:33 AM
Here's a little update for you all...

Firstly - I started a small business with a friend selling health and wellness products. This is to replace the time in the evenings I would have generally spent doing unattractive things such as video games or TV. Additionally, its flexible enough that I could easily step away from it if WW comes back and I need to commit to UA and recovery steps. I thought, why not replace that unattractive time spent with something that could earn me some residual income. Also, I love the products and I genuinely feel better one them. I think it makes me not only look more mature, but also it is showing initiative in improving my future - whether it be with my wife or another (I still cringe a little at statements like that frown )

Secondly - I have been offered the head coach position at my high school program. Its a position I have sought after for many years - we are a quite decorated program with many state titles. I explained to the coaching staff (who ironically were my staff when I wrestled there) about my martial situation. I told them that my marriage was preformed well when I was a coach and it wasn't until I stepped away that it went "south". It is likely irrelevant, however, now I am in a situation where if I commit to this, and WW comes back, UA may become difficult to schedule. But, I was thinking, she loved wrestling! She could help me with book keeping, stats, heck even coaching (she knows more than most of the local coaches lol!). I don't know though... They were extremely understanding and one of my coaches recommended a book to me that leads me into my third point.

With those two points previously mentioned, lastly, I think I am going to start a 21 day fast. Structured around a book with a prayer journal and some guidance as to how to approach the fast. I just feel like I will get some clarity about some big decisions I might be making soon. I just don't want to rush into something just because I am trying to escape the stress of this divorce/affair. I want to be smart and make proper decisions.

Guys I will keep you all posted. I hope I can find some clarity in this mess... I do feel like reading back I have been all over the place - up, down, deciding one thing, cancelling and doing another etc. I just think a fast will do me wonders... slow down a bit, work on my relationship with God and make very educated, smart decisions.

I appreciate everything you guys do for me on here. I am so happy to have met up with you all, albeit, dark times brought me here...


Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/25/16 06:24 PM
Guys - Looking for some advice....

She has been granted the motion to be absent from the pretrial (available by phone), and that: "The Plaintiff has relocated outside the state of Ohio and has new employment. It would be a hardship to travel back for the pretrial."
Like is our marriage so unimportant that she cannot even come back and divorce me properly?!

Anyways, SexyMamaBear suggested I could leverage this situation to my advantage - but neither her nor I really understand the dynamic of a pretrial. Maybe ask the community on here what kind of terms I should make, while my WW has opt'd out of coming back to speak for herself...

Anyone want to weigh in on this?
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 01/26/16 05:28 PM
Pretrials are nothing more than the judge checking on the status of the case like where are you at in discovery, what outstanding issues are there, any pending motions....mostly procedural. When I was practicing in your state, my clients never even went to the pretrials with me. Judges will also use it as an opportunity to push settlement. Of course, that's 25 years ago now and civil litigation not family.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 04:24 PM
I have gone to family court many times on many different issues and all I can say it is very anti-climactic every time. You think you have grounds for the judge to yell at your WS, find things in your favor, blah blah and nothing ever happens.

I think family court judges are so desensitized to people fighitng and claiming all sorts of things on the other person....they really don't care and they don't really want to throw the book at a WS (or either party). Unless kids are involved and you can really demonstrate something is not being done in the best interest of the child, even then they don't really do anything (unless abuse or something somewhat extreme).

They just want people to settle their issues on their own as much as possible. I don't think they will force her to come back for things like pre-trial.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
They just want people to settle their issues on their own as much as possible. I don't think they will force her to come back for things like pre-trial.

I hate this frown

I talked with SMB and HPB again and I think I am going to try to get one last thing through to my wife's attorney before pretrial. Something along the lines of:
Come get the dogs you picked out or find them new homes. They have become too much for me to take care of alone. Please inform me what your plans are with them so I can decide whether they are appropriate or not.

I am leaving the house. If you have any desire to return to the house please tell me so I can have the utilities turned back on. It is too much for me to maintain alone. If you finally decide to end your affair, I will gladly resume the responsibilities we agreed on sharing *insert anniversary date*

Lastly, please remove your car from the street or its going to be impounded. It was the only car on the street in the most recent snow storm and its plates are expired. Additionally, I will no longer be at that house to watch over it while it sits out front. If you cannot afford both vehicles, I will take back the car you are driving and you can have this one.


That is rough, I am trying to work on word choice and ultimately plan my escape. HerPapaBear gave me some good advice that if she counters with something I can ultimately just say "Oh nevermind, I think I will stay here." or "Oh you cannot afford both cars, well keep trying to pay for them."

I do not have to actually follow through on anything, but it pressures her more if I do. I am actively looking for another living arrangement.

Its all really annoying but I think its time to start sticking her with some more hassles beyond finances. I guess if this goes all the way to the end, it would be nice to not have either car's debts or the mortgage to worry about... Just my student loans... just like when I graduated college...before I got married frown
Posted By: living_well Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 06:12 PM
A good strategy is to state what will happen if she takes no action.

So with respect to the dogs it might be 'I plan to take them to the shelter on xyz date if you have not collected them by then'.

Something similar for the car.

Be sure to follow through, no empty threats!
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 06:45 PM
I would only advise that you do not make empty threats on any of what you communicate to her.

The shortness of your marriage (<5 years) means that your desire to end up with a property arrangement similar to how you entered the marriage is fairly likely. That's how judges often handle short marriages.

Your house will make things a bit more complicated but other than that it should be pretty cut and dry if things go that way. Are you both signed on the loan for the house?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 07:07 PM
Anything with her name on it (even if we are joint) I have ignored the payments for.

The house is jointly signed by us. The car she drives is jointly signed by us.

Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 08:13 PM
Honestly I don't like the idea of that letter.

You tell her to come get the dogs then tell her she has to run their placement by you to see if you find it appropriate or not? That seem passive aggressive to me.

I would let any consequences slap her in the face as they come. She has an attorney and can figure things out.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by black_raven
Honestly I don't like the idea of that letter.

You tell her to come get the dogs then tell her she has to run their placement by you to see if you find it appropriate or not? That seem passive aggressive to me.

I guess it was a little passive aggressive. I want her to think about these dogs she picked out. But if she says - I am taking them to the animal shelter and putting this in the kennel, I do not want that to happen.

I just don't know... ugh
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 11:07 PM
I agree on the do not threaten unless you intend to follow through, this is a must.

As far as the car, is it you AND her listed on title or you OR her. If it is OR, then sell it for $100 bucks to your buddy (wink, wink).

Seriously, i don't understand the complications on the property with the court. It should be straight forward, anything joint either sell and split proceeds or divide equally and remove names from deeds and titles.

Your attorney should be able to get a motion for temporary orders if you are in financial hardship and not able to pay everything especially since she is no longer contributing, at least to ensure that you have exclusive use of the house, car, pets and she is restricted. That is what I got.



Posted By: thndrnltng Re: My situation. - 01/27/16 11:33 PM
Owner surrenders are eligible to be euthanized as soon as the owner walks out the door of the shelter.Whether or not this happens depends on how full the shelter is and how much they want to save dogs from death, but owner surrenders are at the top of the list to die, because the shelter knows nobody is looking for them and nobody is coming back to find them. Please find other homes for them when you can no longer manage their care yourself.
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: My situation. - 01/28/16 02:44 AM
Yes, please find a no-kill rescue organization to take your dogs!!!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/28/16 03:24 AM
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
Yes, please find a no-kill rescue organization to take your dogs!!!

I absolutely will not let these dogs be put down...

I am searching high and low for a place to live where I can keep them myself.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 01/28/16 05:29 AM
I'd just make sure that you can provide a good quality of life for the dogs. I understand that you like them but you need to do what is fair for them too.

I never mentioned this on here but my ex left me with a cat she'd had for 10 years and a puppy we'd just got a few months prior. Got an angry email from her shortly after she left telling me to "find good homes for them" since she apparently had better things to do.

I liked both but I knew with my job and schedule I would never be able to provide them a high quality of life because I am not home often enough. Found a friend for each who wanted them, it's worked out very well. Win-win, even with the cat (who I wasn't sure would adjust at his age).

It's tempting to not want to deconstruct things like that from your life with her but if/when she recommits to your marriage, you will have bigger fish to fry. For the time being don't make things harder for yourself than they need to be. 2 dogs is a lot of work for anyone.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: My situation. - 01/28/16 05:30 AM
Look and see if there are any rescues in your area that specialize in whatever breed your dogs are. If they don't specialize, will they do general rescues. If SMB wants to talk to me about this she can just let me know. I'm no expert but I follow the stories a lot around the country and know that there are lots of VERY active rescue organizations.

tl
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/28/16 05:34 PM
On another note my interagotories are due today... I am not turning them in though for another few weeks.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/28/16 08:27 PM
Dearest *wife*,

As much as it grieves me, I am no longer going to be able to care for *Dog A* & *Dog B* alone. I am praying you will be able to take them into your care. Please let me know how you wish to proceed.

I also need to let you know I am going to be moving soon and I am planning to have the utilities turned off when I leave. If you would like me to do something other than turning them off, please let me know your plans.

My last concern is your *car*. It is parked outside, tags have expired and I�m concerned that the local Police Department will impound the car and create expenses for you that could be avoided.

Sincerely,
Wrestler Chemist


Sent this to my attorney today and asked him to send it to my wife's attorney exactly as I have written it. If she says anything short of "I will take care of them myself" or "My parents will take them" (doubtful, but acceptable answer to me) and I am going to take them myself and find homes for them with my mother's help.

I will let you all know what her replies look like.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 01/30/16 10:56 PM
Going to start packing this weekend/week... I am scared to start. Going to be donating a lot of clothes and packing light.


I am a little afraid of whats going to happen this month. For some reason I just have an eerie feeling this situation is approaching a "tipping point." The first week of Feb will mark 5 months of affair and 5 months of this Hell.

I feel like I am doing good, then I just drift back to "Oh man this is really happening, I am moving out." Some of my friends have said "What advantage do you gain moving out?" I don't really know what to say to them, but I think its a good idea for me.

I don't know. I just wish I would show up at the house and her car would be in the drive way or I would check my phone and have a text from her... I just have not heard a word from my wife's mouth since Nov.4th. I wonder if anyone is talking to her?

Her maid of honor and her husband invited me out for coffee the other night. Her MoH said that my wife texted her "happy birthday" the other day - so at least she is trying to cling a little bit to the life that she so violently abandoned.

I don't know guys... just a mental warfare kind of day frown
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: My situation. - 01/30/16 11:05 PM
It is mentally challenging. It's frustrating. Hang in there.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 02/01/16 05:50 AM
Hang in there WC, what you're doing now is very tough. If your friends don't understand your financial situation, I wouldn't pay much attention to them. It sounds like you can't afford to stay there and that's a tough problem to fix. They probably only see a small window into your world right now, and most people who haven't gone through a marriage crisis like this don't realize this isn't the sort of thing you can work out easily. They may not realize it's not that you and your wife can't agree on a solution on the house...it's that she won't even talk to you about it.

My experience was also no contact like this and it's tough in it's own way. I don't know that it's as difficult as the wayward sticking around and flaunting their affair in your face as many here have to deal with, but I do know it's like that person dying or something because they just disappear. Complete abandonment on top of adultery is a very cruel thing. I remember feeling like my ex wife was a myth, because I only heard about her from others (mostly her family) and so I knew she was out there, but I never even saw her (other than in court). Even through the divorce process, the last time I had a REAL conversation with her was before D-day and exposure. Since then....nothing but terse emails/texts about divorce business and 1 tense phone call.

Yes, Plan B is sort of like this, but you're already looking towards a cut-off date at that point so it's not as difficult, in my experience, as continuing Plan A with someone who refuses to have anything to do with you.

I don't how you can feel more rejected than to exchange vows with someone and then not only does that person betray you, they leave and don't even seem to have any concern for you, like you matter so little to them that they don't even care what's happening to you for months at a time. People generally show more concern for their enemies than that, it's like being tossed out with the trash.

Praying for you, WC. Getting out of the house will be a positive thing for you, because it's a step forward into a life where you are not held hostage by a thoughtless person. If she comes back to you, she will not be as she is now. Right now she is very dangerous to your well being because of how fogged she is by her affair, probably the most dangerous person to you in that regard. Still fight for her, but remember she is dangerous until she commits to the MB plan of recovery.

The tipping point was D-day, no matter what happens here. Remember that. This was not your fault and you are doing far above and beyond what most men would do to fight for her.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 12:16 AM
Looked at a townhouse today to rent. One that allows my two dogs. I just got so sick and light headed ... It was so hard to convince myself that I needed to look at it seriously.

I just got so nauseous... Its so much harder to look at something without any consideration about her.

I don't know if I should just stay in my house and ride it out for free until the court disects my life more than it already has..
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 12:24 AM
Why would you leave your home. WW should leave. I think you should stay until she moved out or the court directs it. You leaving gives her exactly what she wants...the time and space to continue her foolishness.
Posted By: Elaina7 Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Looked at a townhouse today to rent. One that allows my two dogs. I just got so sick and light headed ... It was so hard to convince myself that I needed to look at it seriously.

I just got so nauseous... Its so much harder to look at something without any consideration about her.

I don't know if I should just stay in my house and ride it out for free until the court disects my life more than it already has..
Hi! I haven't posted yet, but am trying to get a clear picture here.
Let me get this straight:

1. You won't be paying the mortgage if you are there or not? OR
2. Are you going to rent it out so you can make the mortgage payments and live somewhere else cheaper until the divorce is final and you can sell it?

If there is no way you can find good renters to cover your mortgage- and you can't pay it no matter what-then stay there till you are kicked out and save the money. I don't understand leaving a place you can live for free if your taking the hit to your credit anyways.

That said:
A lot of people in my divorce care rented out their houses while going through their divorce so that might be an option. The judge can order the sale of your house when it is over.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
Why would you leave your home. WW should leave. I think you should stay until she moved out or the court directs it. You leaving gives her exactly what she wants...the time and space to continue her foolishness.

Always, WW has been gone for several months.

Originally Posted by Elaina7
Hi! I haven't posted yet, but am trying to get a clear picture here.
Let me get this straight:

1. You won't be paying the mortgage if you are there or not? OR
2. Are you going to rent it out so you can make the mortgage payments and live somewhere else cheaper until the divorce is final and you can sell it?

If there is no way you can find good renters to cover your mortgage- and you can't pay it no matter what-then stay there till you are kicked out and save the money. I don't understand leaving a place you can live for free if your taking the hit to your credit anyways.

That said:
A lot of people in my divorce care rented out their houses while going through their divorce so that might be an option. The judge can order the sale of your house when it is over.

Maybe I should just try to find a roommate to live here with me for super cheap... like $100-$200/mo. I just do not know who would possibly be OK with the idea that any minute my psycho WW could come smashing through a window to get in the house... I just do not know guys frown
Posted By: Alwayslookingup Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 02:05 AM
I didn't realize she was gone. What about changing the locks and getting a roommate...that might work.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by Alwayslookingup
I didn't realize she was gone. What about changing the locks and getting a roommate...that might work.

locks have been changed for months. my WW left the house Oct. 5th. Thats why she broke into the house back in November - busted out a window.

I'll talk to some friends about possibly getting roommate.
Posted By: AnyWife Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 03:15 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Maybe I should just try to find a roommate to live here with me for super cheap... like $100-$200/mo. I just do not know who would possibly be OK with the idea that any minute my psycho WW could come smashing through a window to get in the house... I just do not know guys frown

If you find the right roommate, it could work out well. $200 a month is dirt cheap where I come from. I'd think plenty of people would be happy to put up with the potential of a visit from a psycho Ex for rent that cheap. (Unless she's so psycho she literally might shoot someone or light your house on fire...)

But if the threat is just her breaking in to take something, just make sure you have insurance that covers any property damage she might do to your roommate.

You might look for a pet lover who is happy to give the dogs some attention too. Maybe even do a deal like "Rent as low as ___ for a roommate who will help with dogs x days a week..."

OR - another angle, there are a lot of people like you who have dogs and find it very hard to find a place to rent. You could say dog's welcome if they get along with mine, and maybe even charge a little more...

Good luck.
Posted By: living_well Re: My situation. - 02/02/16 01:11 PM
A roommate is an excellent plan. Then roommate can report a break in if there is one. Rules vary from state to state but when my ex broke in, I just had to provide a recent utility bill in my name to the police to show that I was entitled to live there. Then XH was escorted out. You should find out how they define residence where you live and make sure you and roommate have this information at hand. It has nothing to do with title or mortgage. You can be a renter and still be the resident. A landlord is not entitled to just enter at any time.

The other thing that I did was to put a simple alarm on the house which was not visible and which XH could not disable. The idea was to cause chaos if XH came with a locksmith claiming he lost his keys. He would have no ability to turn off the alarm which would of course cause the locksmith to call the police.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/04/16 07:09 PM
Hi guys. No progress on a roommate.

I filed my taxes today "Married filing Separately" and claimed our Tithes & Offerings, my W2s, and my student loans.

I forwarded my attorney an email trying to still appear helpful to WW. I gave her the interest 1098 form from our mortgage and property taxes, as well as letting her know that my accountant would gladly file her taxes for her if she was interested. The email was pleasant, but nothing mentioning "romantic marriage" etc. I just felt like I am too far past that point. Just a simple and helpful message sent to her...

Still have not heard from her in a very long time... like early November/late October. Just a response from her attorney would be nice, ya know?

Welp, it is what it is.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/12/16 12:48 AM
My attorney just sent me, in his words, the "first humane response" from my wifes attorney/wife.

They wrote:
In an interest to preserve the health and welfare of the parties' dogs, my client has paid the mortgage should your client wish to continue residing in the marital home to care for the dogs. If your client is unwilling to stay at the marital residence and take care of the dogs or has already moved from the home, my client needs to know where the dogs are located so that she can make arrangements for the care of the dogs. Are the dogs being kept at the marital residence? If not, where are they being kept? Is your client living at the marital residence? If so, will he continue to do so and will he care for the dogs if the mortgage is paid?

My client will also need a key for access to the marital home if your client is not living in it since he changed the locks.

My client also does not have a key to the *car out front my house* A copy of the key can be forwarded through my office.


We responded with:
Yes - I'll remain in the home and watch the dogs if the mortgage is paid.
She doesn't need a key to the home.
We will mail a car key to her attorneys office.

Had a busy week of church activities. Bible study yesterday, "Man Church" tonight and I'm volunteering at a kids event tomorrow at my church. Got friends coming over Saturday night for dinner. Then I got Sunday service and I am coaching wrestling in the evening Sunday night.

smile
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 02/12/16 10:13 PM
That's a positive update.

Staying in the house is best if you're going to continue Plan A, for a lot of reasons.

Awesome about church. Hang in there!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/13/16 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
That's a positive update.

Staying in the house is best if you're going to continue Plan A, for a lot of reasons.

Awesome about church. Hang in there!

Thanks Ax.

It was a little encouraging to see that she offered to pay for the house... the house she is trying to sell? I dont know, maybe I am making too much out of nothing, but she might be a little torn...

Oh well... Invited friends over for dinner tomorrow (I am a great cook smile ) trying to keep looking good from the outside even when inside its tough.

I am a supervisor at work and had an employee just walk out the door today and quit. My boss and I joked together and I said "Dont worry, I am an expert when people I need abandon me." We both laughed and carried on...

Certainly feel like this week was a little better for me.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/16/16 12:29 AM
Her Maid of Honor just told me that my wife agreed to see her cousin (her cousin is making the trip to SC from OH).

I am not positive that her cousin is completely immune to the babble.. Oh well. I guess I do not have huge expectations.

Somethings recently make me believe that she kind of wants the life back in OH, but she is stubbornly trying to act like its all OK down south...

Just an update guys.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 02/17/16 02:30 AM
It's good to have tempered expectations.

I think every family has its own dynamic with regards to confrontation so it's really hard to know what might happen.

It's interesting that you have contact with one of her friends. Probably a good sign for how your exposure was received/understood. When it can build allies for the BS in the wayward's social circle its a very good thing.

You mentioned something about a coaching position a while back. Any news on that?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/17/16 03:54 AM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
It's good to have tempered expectations.

I think every family has its own dynamic with regards to confrontation so it's really hard to know what might happen.

It's interesting that you have contact with one of her friends. Probably a good sign for how your exposure was received/understood. When it can build allies for the BS in the wayward's social circle its a very good thing.

You mentioned something about a coaching position a while back. Any news on that?

I did not get a single push back about exposure from any of her real friends or family - only from those at her workplace. Her Maid of Honor has been one of my biggest supporters, I have her and her husband over a couple times a month I would say.

I think I am going to take the coaching position. I am like 90% yes right now. Not because of my WW, but because of my day job. I am not sure how it will work out.

It is for next season so I would not be doing anything substantial until like June.

My other small business I started is doing OK getting started and I was recently approached by another friend about partnering for another small business...

I really kind of turning my emotions towards work: probably working 60-70 hours a week at my Chemist job (which needs to stop soon because I am salaried and its frustrating not getting OT haha), about 5-7 hours in my start up business, I suspect less than 10 hours in the small business my friend was talking about.

I have started to consider a new job... My degree is really for something other than chemistry and I came back to this area just for my Wife to be closer to her parents... I could be doing better some other part of the country (do not get me wrong, my family is also in this area so I like it a lot).

Another note about work, one of my friends has told me that he knows some friends in Sales that are desperate for a young guy (or gal) with good work ethic and he thinks I could be great for it...

Just starting to consider things without my wife's involvement now and days.

Its been interesting... but it gets easier each day.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 02/17/16 12:10 PM
Now is not a great time to make irreversible decisions.

Your emotions are misleading you. They are telling you that it is time to show her that you can "get along fine without her, thank you very much." Before long, your emotions will be telling you to date even before you are actually divorced.

Affairs take time to die a natural death. If you have any interest in saving your marriage, you need to preserve your love bank balance so you are still there when your WW turns to you. Most people don't make it that far because they listen to their emotions.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/17/16 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
Now is not a great time to make irreversible decisions.

Your emotions are misleading you. They are telling you that it is time to show her that you can "get along fine without her, thank you very much." Before long, your emotions will be telling you to date even before you are actually divorced.

Affairs take time to die a natural death. If you have any interest in saving your marriage, you need to preserve your love bank balance so you are still there when your WW turns to you. Most people don't make it that far because they listen to their emotions.

I hear you loud and clear.

Re-reading my last post I realize it may sound like I am trying to convince myself to abandon the marriage and move on.

A new job has been something I had considered pre-affair. The coaching position was a thing that I highly sought after pre-affair also.

I just meant, like, I try to not think about her too much - so I am not reminded of the affair too much. I feel like it keeps my resentment at a stand still... preserving at least positive balance in the love bank.

If she contacted me - I would very much like the thought of recovery with her. But she is going to have to establish some EPs for her wild and footloose behavior...I don't think I could do this all over again.

That's reasonable right?
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 02/17/16 04:05 PM
Yes, you are being reasonable, but keeping a positive love bank balance may not be possible because love units expire with the passage of time. So, in spite of your best efforts to preserve them, you may well have no love left for you WW by the time her affair dies a natural death. Your marriage can still be saved even if you get to that point, but you will have to keep your options open and not make non-essential irreversible decisions.

As to establishing EPs to make future affairs impossible, we can deal with that when we come to that point. In a true recovery, your WW should want to avoid a repeat, too. When an affair dies a natural death, it does not leave a good aftertaste with the affairees.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/18/16 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
Yes, you are being reasonable, but keeping a positive love bank balance may not be possible because love units expire with the passage of time. So, in spite of your best efforts to preserve them, you may well have no love left for you WW by the time her affair dies a natural death. Your marriage can still be saved even if you get to that point, but you will have to keep your options open and not make non-essential irreversible decisions.

As to establishing EPs to make future affairs impossible, we can deal with that when we come to that point. In a true recovery, your WW should want to avoid a repeat, too. When an affair dies a natural death, it does not leave a good aftertaste with the affairees.

I definitely have started to feel this effect a little bit. I mean - I have not even seen her face since the end of October. With no contact at all since the fist week in November. How do you preserve the love bank like that? Like you said, its somewhat not possible. I still love her, but I love her because she's my wife at the moment... not exactly healthy...

Like you said also, I have not talked too much towards recovery because it is possible I will never be there... but I am trying to get myself to the point where I will only accept her back if she is going to agree to them - instead of taking her back because I am desperate.

______

Another note, I got her updated financial disclosure today from my attorney today. Kind of rattled me... I think I will be ok though.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/22/16 06:50 PM
Hey all quick question for any one whose been there (or has not and wants to weigh in anyways)...

I am finishing up the Production of Documents request my wife submitted. Already extended its due date 30 days to slow things down - but the time is approaching to submit everything.

The very last segment of this request states "Any documents the defendant would like to present to the case as evidence"

I was thinking about adding the appraisal I got on her engagement ring, our marriage certificate, the abstract of marriage, a typed up copy of our vows and the entire box of wedding cards (about 90)...

Am I spinning my gears here? HerPapaBear told me "Send it all!" So I think I am going to go through with it.

Anything else you guys can think of adding to this?
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 02/23/16 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
HerPapaBear told me "Send it all!" So I think I am going to go through with it.

I agree with HPB. Hang in there WC!
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 02/23/16 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
The very last segment of this request states "Any documents the defendant would like to present to the case as evidence"

I was thinking about adding the appraisal I got on her engagement ring, our marriage certificate, the abstract of marriage, a typed up copy of our vows and the entire box of wedding cards (about 90)...

Am I spinning my gears here? HerPapaBear told me "Send it all!" So I think I am going to go through with it.

Anything else you guys can think of adding to this?

Wouldn't your and her attorney just end up charging you guys more for duplicating costs of everything?

That order is a scary prospect for me though. I'm hoping I can avoid it in my case, that WW come to her senses soon.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/23/16 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
HerPapaBear told me "Send it all!" So I think I am going to go through with it.

I agree with HPB. Hang in there WC!

Thanks SusieQ. I am trying !

Staying more involved at church, more involved at work, more involved with my business. I took a picture of me this weekend and the first comment on it was "Wow, you look great!" I was really encouraged...

I just wish my wife would pull her head outta her butt... Maybe seeing the "Hope you have a wonderful marriage with WC" on 90+ wedding cards from people she cares about rings a bell in her head. Or reading the verbal contract her and I made before God and all our friends and family...

I dunno confused
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/23/16 08:16 PM
Instead of putting the wedding cards in my production of documents I thought about doing this -

I was going to get all the wedding/shower cards, all the documents and fun items we got from our honeymoon, all the cutesy things I ever made for her (notes, letters we wrote back in forth in college, etc. all kept in a box currently), and lastly her journal to our unborn child and put them into a box. I was going to write a little note inside - something Plan Aish with help from posters and SMB&HPB (if they agree this is a good idea).

Then I want to ask my attorney to how to get it straight to my wife (through her attorney or whatever) regardless possible blow back - if she whines harassment. I just want him to do it. I imagine it would be simple to defend a harassment claim.

I just need to get rid of it. IF she throws it away, oh well... if she comes back she can bring it all with her, otherwise I don't ever want to see it again.

I just feel like I am not doing anything proactive - made take a little chance to PlanA her a tad... even though my strategy was wait until he offends her and the affair crashes...

I dont know... any thoughts?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/23/16 08:42 PM
sorry guys - I am just not having a good day.

I think I am going to try to take my dogs to the park tonight to play...

Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 02/24/16 05:08 PM
No thoughts on how you sending all of that to her will affect her, but it will for sure be a weight off your shoulders. In fact, to be honest, I think it will help you play the long game here.

At some point all of the little things like that stop being reminders to keep your lovebank account for her afloat, and turn into little daggers that make you resent her. They make you feel bad and they don't help you Plan A.

You will get emotionally divested of her getting rid of it, but to be honest in this case I think that will give you better clarity and an upper hand in evaluating any offer she might make down the road to get back with you. A false recovery would be much worse for you than ending up divorced. Best to have your wits about you.

On Plan A, not being proactive, etc...there's just not much you can do in this situation, man. It sucks, but it is what it is. This is a waiting game.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/24/16 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
No thoughts on how you sending all of that to her will affect her, but it will for sure be a weight off your shoulders. In fact, to be honest, I think it will help you play the long game here.

At some point all of the little things like that stop being reminders to keep your lovebank account for her afloat, and turn into little daggers that make you resent her. They make you feel bad and they don't help you Plan A.

You will get emotionally divested of her getting rid of it, but to be honest in this case I think that will give you better clarity and an upper hand in evaluating any offer she might make down the road to get back with you. A false recovery would be much worse for you than ending up divorced. Best to have your wits about you.

On Plan A, not being proactive, etc...there's just not much you can do in this situation, man. It sucks, but it is what it is. This is a waiting game.

Thanks ax.

Here is what I have planned to do, with SMB, HPB and MrWondering's advice.

I am going to attach the marriage certificate, the abstract of marriage, the engagement ring appraisal and one to two wedding cards strategically picked out in my submission of "Production of Documents."

The rest I am going to box up and stow away. If she throws it all away, its all gone forever, even if she comes back and says shes sorry - its all lost.

If its stowed away out of sight and out of mind, at least I still have it should we recover. If not, I will just toss it myself.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/25/16 05:38 PM
Finally handed over my Production of Documents - at the same time my attorney's paralegal gave me my wife's stack of production of documents... which comically was nearly 6x the size of my stack (guess someone is taking this very seriously).

Anyways, I was pretty hurt by the answers she provided in her paperwork. She used the phrase "DO not feel comfortable providing for my safety."

I am not a monster...

Pre-trial on Monday so I guess there's that.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 02/26/16 03:10 AM
She's going to portray you to the court as a violent, unstable monster that's trying to destroy her life and is a threat to her physical safety.

That's how she will justify the abandonment and complete lack of communication to the court, very typical strategy for WWs. You can pretty much count on that, I've seen it happen here dozens of times.

You/your lawyer need to be ready and thinking about how to talk about things like exposure, because she will probably try to put you on the defensive about it.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 02/26/16 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
You/your lawyer need to be ready and thinking about how to talk about things like exposure, because she will probably try to put you on the defensive about it.

What's a good way to address exposure? I have a feeling that may came up in my case as well. (I saw my wife's notes talking to her lawyer, she wrote "unreasonable.")
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/26/16 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
She's going to portray you to the court as a violent, unstable monster that's trying to destroy her life and is a threat to her physical safety.

That's how she will justify the abandonment and complete lack of communication to the court, very typical strategy for WWs. You can pretty much count on that, I've seen it happen here dozens of times.

You/your lawyer need to be ready and thinking about how to talk about things like exposure, because she will probably try to put you on the defensive about it.

She is clinging to that thought as much as I thought. My attorney is pretty certain that any claim she makes about exposure will be laughable. The TRO violation she cited exposure in (harassing and annoying the plaintiff) is probably going to thrown out.

I found out OM has a criminal record, underage drinking and disrupting the peace (probably a high school party) and a ton of speeding tickets... Its just frustrating that this is the kind of POS that she would never interact with back in the day... additionally I am infinitely more straight and narrow than this guy.

But whatever, her loss I guess... I just got so worked up last night that I promised to keep her safe and I feel like he is not safe (or at least has any concern for her safety)... but here, in the case she has formulated a plan to make me look unsafe - when in reality I just want her to be safe.... UGH
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 02/26/16 04:59 PM
Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Just saying, have the documentation about the OM and your attorney aware of it.
IF you can make her claims look hypocritical, it will implode on her.
And yes, you will be painted as a monster. That is the so often repeated typical tactic.

Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 02/26/16 07:08 PM
All I can say is time and again throughout my D process, my attorney/s would often tell my that my WxH was "delusional" and "not living in reality" with his expectations court-wise.

During post-D proceedings (contempt motion on my part) WxH's atty actually "fired" him which is pretty rare. My atty told me his atty had had it with him and his OW.

I see this kind of stuff frequently on these forums - fogged out wayturds thinking they are going to destroy their BS in court. Most of family court proceedings are anti-climactic (unless someone has done something pretty crazy) and they want you to settle things and not waste their time.

Just think of it like poker game - try very hard to stick to logic, facts and try not to let emotions get in the way. And be confident in the fact that she is probably doing the opposite.

You're doing great. Keep doing what you're doing smile
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/26/16 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
All I can say is time and again throughout my D process, my attorney/s would often tell my that my WxH was "delusional" and "not living in reality" with his expectations court-wise.

During post-D proceedings (contempt motion on my part) WxH's atty actually "fired" him which is pretty rare. My atty told me his atty had had it with him and his OW.

I see this kind of stuff frequently on these forums - fogged out wayturds thinking they are going to destroy their BS in court. Most of family court proceedings are anti-climactic (unless someone has done something pretty crazy) and they want you to settle things and not waste their time.

Just think of it like poker game - try very hard to stick to logic, facts and try not to let emotions get in the way. And be confident in the fact that she is probably doing the opposite.

You're doing great. Keep doing what you're doing smile

Thanks SusieQ - my attorney did tell my WW's atty that I am "not your client's personal maid, kennel and valet." When my WW said that I could not leave the house or the dogs because of the TRO.

I am trying to get an email together as to when my attorney and I suggest martial reconciliation through a motion or something... Something she will probably reject but at least it buys some more time.

In that same email I am going to try to quickly add an excerpt that states what my WW is saying about her safety is complete bogus and not supported by facts at all.

A friend of mine (supported me the whole time, doesn't know MB or anything just a nice guy) said to try to remain positive in that "You are not getting the whole picture, her attorney might be making her look worse than she is to speed up the divorce." and that "she might actually be questioning the whole process, but her attorney has done hundreds of divorce cases and is staying stone cold"

Oh well, trying to get an email out to my attorney before pretrial but I might just have to tell him in person at pretrial.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/29/16 03:40 PM
Here goes nothing I suppose... Pretrial in a couple minutes.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 02/29/16 04:19 PM
Keep us posted, probably will be very anti-climatic.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 02/29/16 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by NebDane
Keep us posted, probably will be very anti-climatic.

It was. They actually started early (without me, and I was 15 minutes early).

Some updates about it though. April 22nd is our next date - attorney's summary was "that's the date she'll need to prove the grounds (incompatibility)." I am pretty happy about that - its nearly two more months on the process.

My attorney also handed over my discovery paperwork. He said that my wife handled the escrow difference that had jacked up our mortgage, so the mortgage payment is down to something more reasonable for me to afford (if I want to keep the house). I am still not going to pay the mortgage until I am absolutely required to.

My attorney asked "what I wanted to do about the house?" I said, I should be able to afford that revised mortgage payment - and I cannot rent with these two dogs...

Oh well, still a poker game as SusieQ put it. But I am pretty happy with how today went, at least happy with the time frame being extended.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 03/10/16 03:38 AM
Someone finally took the car today... Don't know who or when it was taken.

I have been working insane hours.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 03/10/16 06:10 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Someone finally took the car today... Don't know who or when it was taken.

I have been working insane hours.

Good, one less thing to worry about!
Posted By: Tyk Re: My situation. - 03/14/16 04:20 PM
Hi WC, I used the MB principles to recover my marriage after my wife had an affair. This was about 8 years ago or so. Your thread caught my attention because I have alot of empathy for husband's going through this.

First, you've done an excellent job following the MB plan, much better than I did in my situation, especially at first. It doesn't sound like things are going all that great as far as you recovering your marriage, but it sounds like you're learning alot about yourself and making yourself a better person, and that is really what all of this is about. From what I can tell, you've done about the best job anyone could expect given what's been thrown at you.

I'd also like to tell you that you may want to do some serious soul searching as to whether or not you want to invest any more energy into trying to recover your marriage. I say that because ending the affair, Plan A, Plan B; that's the easy part, as terrible as that sounds. Recovery after that is really difficult. It took us YEARS to really work past the damage the A caused, and it's really only the last couple years that I can honestly say I feel I made the right decision and have been able to overcome the resentment the A caused (most of the time, if you catch me on the occasional bad day, I still may feel differently). So when you consider that this may be the case for you, you're talking about a struggle that may go on longer than the time you have invested in your marriage.

All I can say is that knowing what I know now, if I were in your situation, young, able to recover financially, with a short marriage, no kids, and a pretty brutal WS, I'd be inclined to advise you to chalk this up as a learning experience and apply these MB lessons to your next relationship, because knowing what you know now, the next one will be so much better!

Anyhow, good luck to you, whichever way this turns out and whatever decisions you make.

Tyk

Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 03/14/16 05:18 PM
WC,
Tyk's advice is very sound. If it weren't for the fact I have invested 20 years in my relationship with WW, and the fact that we have an 11 year old son, I would seriously think about walking away. As it is now, if WW were to come back and reconcile, it is a tough road ahead.

I would have done well to do so seven months after my wedding when I discovered the first EA episode. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20.

Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 03/14/16 05:53 PM
Good advice I agree.

Its only been 6-7 months since the A started, only 6 mos since she moved out and 5.5 mos in to the divorce process.

Its not like I can start a relationship with anyone right now anyways - so I am just going to continue to wait, maybe she will come around.

Sure we have only been married for 2.5 yrs, but we were together for 8years. So that is substantial enough time for me to wait.

I will just let the divorce run its course, its pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things... if the affair dies and she is truly wanting to reconcile (not apologize, just reconcile) then she would drop the case. IF she does not, then we are just divorced I guess until her affair ends.

Like Mr. E said earlier, time erodes love bank balances... so the longer it goes on the harder it will be for her and I.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 03/14/16 06:02 PM
I will add that this relationship has a lot of moving parts that get me tripped up... (as all marriages I am sure).

First, I absolutely loved my in-laws and they loved me to death in return. SexyMamaBear and I have had many conversations about controlling my thought process around their feelings.

I mean, the very fact that I know SexyMamaBear and HerPapaBear at all is because they are related to my wife... and my in-laws suggested talking to SMB and HPB.


I just have so much stocked in relationships and I have a hard time just releasing it all just because I have the right to walk away from this marriage due to the affair.

I have just a glimmer of hope that she related to enough decent people that it may stand a chance to wait... but the truth is, I might be fooling myself.

So what I have been trying to do is just not think about it or her and just live my life. Just do what makes me happy at the moment, and if I ever hear from my wife again... well, we will deal with that if it comes up.

Anyways, I already told HPB that if my wife was ever home when I got home wanting to reconcile I would grab her by the arm and say "Sssshhhh don't say a word, we are going to your Aunt and Uncle's (SMB and HPB)." hahah

Posted By: Tyk Re: My situation. - 03/14/16 06:47 PM
Yes WC, by all means continue the plan! With your WW being dark, you don't have many options anyway.

Be clear headed about your inlaws. They are responsible for themselves. They make their own choices. They could choose to support what they know is right, and bring pressure to bear upon your WW. They are choosing instead the cowardly path, which in the end will do their daughter and themselves harm.

They have chosen to not be a friend and support your marraige. Therefore, they are not your friends. Don't make too many excuses for them is all I'm saying.

We lost alot of friends in the wake of my wife's affair. My wife lost almost all of hers. And to be honest, I do not regret that very much, because they showed themselves to not be true friends. Interestingly enough, one of the only friendships to survive was one of my wife's best friends, who stood with me in my efforts to recover our marriage, and refused to enable my wife's behavior. They are still best friends, and I have the utmost respect for her for doing the right thing when it was the most difficult.

If your WW comes out of the fog, a part of that will be repudiating her wayward behavior. That will result in her being forced to recognize that those friends that stood by her in her affair were wrong. It will all be part of the fantasy collapsing. That's going to be a hard thing for her to come to terms with regarding her parents, hard for you, as well.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 03/14/16 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
WC,
Tyk's advice is very sound. If it weren't for the fact I have invested 20 years in my relationship with WW, and the fact that we have an 11 year old son, I would seriously think about walking away. As it is now, if WW were to come back and reconcile, it is a tough road ahead.

I would have done well to do so seven months after my wedding when I discovered the first EA episode. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20.
Tyk's advice presumed no children, which is not your case. It was also too pessimistic about recovery. It has been five years for me, and I almost never think of it. I have a hard time remembering a lot of the particulars like dates and the specific sequence of it all. So, why the difference? We moved 550 miles away from the affair location. All the triggers are gone. We are not bombarded by relentless reminders of the horrible experience.

There is much you can do to effect how long a full recovery takes. It doesn't have to take more than a couple of years.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 03/14/16 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
Tyk's advice presumed no children, which is not your case. It was also too pessimistic about recovery. It has been five years for me, and I almost never think of it. I have a hard time remembering a lot of the particulars like dates and the specific sequence of it all. So, why the difference? We moved 550 miles away from the affair location. All the triggers are gone. We are not bombarded by relentless reminders of the horrible experience.

For WC it shouldn't be as painful as for me. For me, though, this is the second EA with the same OM. The first time I would say I fully recovered within a year. It was never overtly in my mind, and at that time I naively accepted from both WW and OM that it was in the past. I was young and without children at the time. But it was always lurking in my subconscious so I held off having a child until 7 years later on purpose. At that point we were both convinced the marriage was strong and we started to try for a child. It took us a year to conceive but it was well worth it. Because of our S, I mistakenly never expected my WW to stray from the marriage. She always talked about how perfect our little family was, until this past year when I discovered the EA.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 03/15/16 04:02 PM
WC,

You're on the right track and doing the right things.

I was a lot more skeptical about saving my marriage because it had gone much more poorly than yours (going by your description here), but I do think when the time is right to hang it up (if it ever comes) you will know and God will speak to you about it.

That was just my experience. Choosing to give up was a very hard thing to do for me, even though my situation was very bleak in terms of odds of recovery and I had every reason to walk away.

But I fought as hard as I could (as I think you are also doing) and I was blessed to have peace about the situation when the choice had to be made to hang it up.

I think you will find things much the same, because you are doing this the right way. Letting go of cherished relationships (like the inlaws) is always hard, though. Keep up the good work and remember this was never your choice to end up here.

You are simply working with a situation given to you and I think you are doing a very good job with it. As others have said, personal growth and learning good MB skills is the best outcome regardless of what happens, and you are well on your way in that regard. God Bless.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 03/16/16 03:56 PM
Thanks Ax for the inspiration.

She filed a motion to dismiss her TRO violation which was scheduled for Friday.

We also got some paperwork with some kinda "end times" dates on them... looks like this will be over legally by late May - End of June.

Lots can happen by then though... Staying positive got some good friends.

Had a groups of people I had never met before explain to me how inspiring my story is for them, and how they will view what it means to be committed to a relationship differently because they ever spoke to me.
Posted By: LostOnLeftCoast Re: My situation. - 03/16/16 04:32 PM
Glad you don't have to waste time and money fighting a frivolous TRO!
Good luck turning your M around, you still have a little bit of time. Hopefully these last few months will reveal to you which way you should go with your life.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 03/16/16 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Glad you don't have to waste time and money fighting a frivolous TRO!
Good luck turning your M around, you still have a little bit of time. Hopefully these last few months will reveal to you which way you should go with your life.

I by no means view the divorce as the end of fighting for the marriage...

That's why I said legally I believe earlier I said I was prepared to give this about 2 years.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 03/16/16 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Glad you don't have to waste time and money fighting a frivolous TRO!
Good luck turning your M around, you still have a little bit of time. Hopefully these last few months will reveal to you which way you should go with your life.

I by no means view the divorce as the end of fighting for the marriage...

That's why I said legally I believe earlier I said I was prepared to give this about 2 years.

I wish that rather than asking Dr Harley how to save this marriage (ie, I only want marriage saving advice) you had asked his advice about whether fighting for your marriage (nevermind for 2 years) is what he would advise you to do - and let him explain to his his reasoning so that you could let his insight marinate WHILE you continue to fight for your M.

It sounded like from something SMB posted that this wasn't your WW's first time straying (which was in line w/my impression from different things you had posted about your WW, that she has extremely poor boundaries and enjoys OS male attention). I also wish Dr Harley knew this.

I know you think that your WW's family being "decent" is something that should give you hope....but I actually feel the opposite, the fact that they have supported your W in demonizing you for your part in the marital issues actually works against you. That type of support only solidifies your WW's fog and could be a factor in how bad things have gotten in your situation (TRO, breaking into your home and trashing it, moving to be with the OM etc).

Just my 2 cents.....
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 03/16/16 05:25 PM
Ditto to SusieQ post
Posted By: TheRoad Re: My situation. - 03/16/16 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by LostOnLeftCoast
Glad you don't have to waste time and money fighting a frivolous TRO!
Good luck turning your M around, you still have a little bit of time. Hopefully these last few months will reveal to you which way you should go with your life.

I by no means view the divorce as the end of fighting for the marriage...

That's why I said legally I believe earlier I said I was prepared to give this about 2 years.

Not to give false hopes. Whether false pride or whatever the reason the WW would stop the divorce. Only a year or too later to wind up remarrying her exBH.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 03/16/16 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
I wish that rather than asking Dr Harley how to save this marriage (ie, I only want marriage saving advice) you had asked his advice about whether fighting for your marriage (nevermind for 2 years) is what he would advise you to do - and let him explain to his his reasoning so that you could let his insight marinate WHILE you continue to fight for your M.

It sounded like from something SMB posted that this wasn't your WW's first time straying (which was in line w/my impression from different things you had posted about your WW, that she has extremely poor boundaries and enjoys OS male attention). I also wish Dr Harley knew this.

I know you think that your WW's family being "decent" is something that should give you hope....but I actually feel the opposite, the fact that they have supported your W in demonizing you for your part in the marital issues actually works against you. That type of support only solidifies your WW's fog and could be a factor in how bad things have gotten in your situation (TRO, breaking into your home and trashing it, moving to be with the OM etc).

Just my 2 cents.....

I do not really know how to respond to this SusieQ...

I will say, I find sometimes I am just waiting for her to drop from her fog because I have nothing better to do (in terms of relationships)...

I don't know... how much longer is the wait to 2 years if I am already at 7 mos?

frown
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 03/24/16 12:02 AM
Guys,

Little update.

I accepted the head coach wrestling job that I was highly seeking after before my wife's affair... I was skeptical at first as to whether it was the right thing to do.

I prayed on it and I think its going to be a perfect.

I am pretty excited.
Posted By: OlderWiser Re: My situation. - 03/24/16 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Guys,

Little update.

I accepted the head coach wrestling job that I was highly seeking after before my wife's affair... I was skeptical at first as to whether it was the right thing to do.

I prayed on it and I think its going to be a perfect.

I am pretty excited.

Congrats, WC!

This'll be a good thing for YOU! Enjoy.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 03/24/16 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Guys,

Little update.

I accepted the head coach wrestling job that I was highly seeking after before my wife's affair... I was skeptical at first as to whether it was the right thing to do.

I prayed on it and I think its going to be a perfect.

I am pretty excited.
Congratulations!!
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 03/24/16 05:48 PM
Great
I am a big supporter of wrestling, great to hear that. One of the toughest sports around, but teaches so many lessons and skills.

Posted By: TheLongRun Re: My situation. - 03/28/16 04:45 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Guys,

Little update.

I accepted the head coach wrestling job that I was highly seeking after before my wife's affair... I was skeptical at first as to whether it was the right thing to do.

I prayed on it and I think its going to be a perfect.

I am pretty excited.
Awesome news! Hope that you excel in coaching your students. Congratulations!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 02:07 AM
Hey all -

I am planning on applying for a pre-approval sometime in May. I want to try to keep the house so I will need to buy her out if she never comes around to her senses... Some things I have considered (please weigh in with your thoughts)

- I like this house, it has all the things required for me to keep my dogs too - which is another plus.

- My brother has said he might need a place to live, he said he would pay me to live here (which would definitely help sustain the mortgage pymt)

- I have one credit card I got when my WW took all the money and left me bone dry zero dollars... it still has a couple hundred dollars on its balance (no late payments or anything). I am planning on having that balance at zero before applying for the pre-approval.

Do I need to get the house appraised?

Will it matter to the bank that I currently "stuck" her with all the mortgage payments for the last couple months?

If I get approved for less than the value of my house, then I guess I am screwed...



I am really tired of the waiting game, but I really need to stay on top of the house situation...

Does anyone just think this is a crummy idea ?
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 12:37 PM
You should move.
Posted By: unwritten Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 12:46 PM
I agree with apples.

Whether your wife pulls out of the fog and you choose to go through recovery at some point or you divorce and move on, you do not want to be stuck with the affair memories that surround your current home. It will be a breath of fresh air for you to move.

Sometimes the most 'logical' decision isn't all that logical at all. Saving a few bucks or not having to go through the hassle of moving is not worth the emotional impact.
Posted By: buildsherhouse Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 12:48 PM
Just from a financial and housing standpoint, yes, I think it's crummy idea.

Also, if your wife comes back the two of you need a fresh start as a base for new habits....from my perspective whether she comes back or not a fresh start is good.

Find a pet friendly rental to share with your brother.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 02:35 PM
From the standpoint of probability, that is, what action will give you the most likely chance for a positive outcome, you ought to get out of there. That doesn't mean disaster awaits you if you don't. It is common to underestimate the effects of triggers. While you are still in the thick of it, the triggers associated with your house may well be dwarfed by others. In time, you will find that the triggers that are not the chief ones now will yet prove to be more persistent. So by staying put, you are running a greater risk of drawing out your recovery for a longer time.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 03:06 PM
Also, that house is a financial problem. Housing shouldn't be more than 25% of your take-home pay, including savings for repairs. You should not need a roommate to make the payments.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by apples123
Also, that house is a financial problem. Housing shouldn't be more than 25% of your take-home pay, including savings for repairs. You should not need a roommate to make the payments.
We are not a financial advice forum. Our concern is with recovery. Would it be that retaining the house was financially beneficial, it wouldn't matter. The advice would be the same.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 03:57 PM
Ok... So maybe I should move...

Ugh.
Posted By: NebDane Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 04:28 PM
I agree, triggers could haunt you. why risk the pain.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by mrEureka
Originally Posted by apples123
Also, that house is a financial problem. Housing shouldn't be more than 25% of your take-home pay, including savings for repairs. You should not need a roommate to make the payments.
We are not a financial advice forum. Our concern is with recovery. Would it be that retaining the house was financially beneficial, it wouldn't matter. The advice would be the same.

Certainly, I am simply pointing out that the house is a problem on multiple levels.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 04/06/16 04:41 PM
Well for what it is worth... I don't really feel "triggers" at home. I have rearranged everything the way I like it. I put all her remaining items in the attic.

The only triggers I face now - and might be a good time to bring them up are TV, music and some other things (like restaurants, etc).

I just took my TV and put it away - and stopped watching NetFlix because all the shows we used to watch are there... I don't really listen to music anymore... but I still got to eat. I guess time heals those areas...

but if you all agree moving is the best option, maybe I should think about it more seriously rather than trying to save my current home.

Originally Posted by mrEureka
From the standpoint of probability, that is, what action will give you the most likely chance for a positive outcome, you ought to get out of there. That doesn't mean disaster awaits you if you don't. It is common to underestimate the effects of triggers. While you are still in the thick of it, the triggers associated with your house may well be dwarfed by others. In time, you will find that the triggers that are not the chief ones now will yet prove to be more persistent. So by staying put, you are running a greater risk of drawing out your recovery for a longer time.

It is possible that I am underestimating triggers at the moment...

For example, IN addition to TV, Music, restaurants, etc. my wife and I's favorite summer hobby was to play Frisbee golf. I have her name written with Sharpie on every single Frisbee we use... it has not been warm enough to play yet this year but I suppose I will need to Acetone her name off.


I just may be BS fogged out myself... wanted to keep my old lifestyle with or without her in it.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 04/27/16 01:16 PM
Hey all,

just checking in. Nothing has really changed... I have been kind of sad/frustrating lately. I explained to HerPapaBear and SexyMamaBear that I feel like - "Shes a fish and I am the fisherman, but I am just sitting in my boat waiting for her to jump outa the water into the boat."

Just feel kind of helpless lately - although on the outside, I look like I am doing really well. Hard to keep up the front that it isn't bothering me at all.

Oh well, hope everyone is doing well.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 04/27/16 03:32 PM
Do you have a court date? What's going on with the proceedings? How long has it been now?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 04/27/16 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
Do you have a court date? What's going on with the proceedings? How long has it been now?

We have another pretrial set for May 25th - she filed to not appear and was granted.

Trial date set for June 29th, but we have no kids so I don't know if it will make it that far.

May 5th will be 7 months of this.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 04/27/16 06:04 PM
It can make it that far, but you have to consider that if you're taking it to trial just to take it to trial, the judge will likely order you to pay your wife's attorney fees. One thing that Dr. Harley said to me that gave me comfort was that just because you're divorced doesn't mean you can't marry each other again. Weigh your options at each stage.
Posted By: 125 Re: My situation. - 04/29/16 05:31 AM
This is a endearing story,you fought long and hard. I know it is hard and the pain of feeling betrayed never quite leaves.I do promise,she will come back and it may be not be for a long time,stop waiting for that moment and live your life.When the moment found me I had moved on and found the real love of my life. I wish you the best,and hope that you find happiness in wherever you go.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 04/29/16 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by 125
This is a endearing story,you fought long and hard. I know it is hard and the pain of feeling betrayed never quite leaves.I do promise,she will come back and it may be not be for a long time,stop waiting for that moment and live your life.When the moment found me I had moved on and found the real love of my life. I wish you the best,and hope that you find happiness in wherever you go.
How on earth can you promise that she will come back?

Marriage Builders is all about following a plan that gives you the best chance for the best possible outcome. We are not into feel-good meaningless guarantees.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 05/25/16 03:29 PM
Another pretrial this morning...

I asked my attorney to type up my options because I just couldn't comprehend everything he was saying in the state I was in... Just overwhelmed...

I will update you guys on what he says when he emails me back, and ask for advice then.

My lender said there is really no way for me to get a preapproval that is anything usable while the house is on my name - unless my income could cover a second home, which it cannot...

So I guess I am a little stuck at the moment. and overwhelmed... and she did not show, naturally.

I thought about texting her the other day, but SMB advised that is a dangerous thing to do at the moment... SO I held off.

I don't even know what I would say really...
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 05/26/16 03:19 PM
Here is what my attorney sent me this morning -

The options are to continue to contest grounds. The court is likely to find grounds for the divorce. The other alternative is to let her go forward and receive a divorce on grounds of incompatibility, without your agreement. That may be your best option.

welp...
Posted By: WalkTheWalk Re: My situation. - 05/27/16 02:21 AM
Hey WC,
Sorry to hear that your divorce is progressing in spite of you. I think you have performed admirably. Whatever transpires, you will be able to face yourself in the mirror and know you did everything a human could. We can't control everything, or really anything outside our selves. You exercised some pretty darn good self control.

If it looks like the divorce will be granted, why not insist on the grounds of infidelity? What is the downside according to your lawyer?

This may sound defeatist, and I am not advocating that you give up, cuz I don't really see that in your nature, but trust me. If this divorce goes through in spite of your efforts, and you gain some separation from your WW and the whole situation, you are going to find a ginormous weight lifted and you will be able to enjoy just about everything. You'll feel like John Herod from the cheesy western "The Quick and the Dead": "Understand this: There is nothing on this earth that frightens me now."

-WTW
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 05/31/16 01:51 AM
^^^ Agree with that.

Sorry to hear things have progressed as they have, WC. But having been there myself, I think WTW is correct. When you fight as hard as you've fought, you come out of it more fearless either way.

There is very little in the world that will be more challenging or demanding of you than what has already been thrown at you in the last year. Remember that, and focus on your future.

Your WWs willingness to participate in your rock-solid future that you are building is her choice. And if she decides to walk away there is no shortage of wonderful women out there who are looking for men like you.

"Just feel kind of helpless lately - although on the outside, I look like I am doing really well. Hard to keep up the front that it isn't bothering me at all. "

I hope you don't mean by this that you are just stuffing whatever pain you are feeling. When you are down, find someone you can trust to talk to. Or...in my situation, I found it even better to pray and tell God just exactly what was troubling me.

There's no easy way to deal with this part of the process, and I think you are doing very well with it.
Posted By: Ron_C Re: My situation. - 05/31/16 05:06 PM
^^^ I agree with that, I could not have said it any better.

I don't have every many friends in this world, so I spend my time talking to God and asking were does He want me to go.
I have given the whole situation to Him,and i have to say it has drawn me closer. My hope is after been through the fire I come out stronger and wiser.

For me it's getting close to a year since my WW filed for divorce, I have seen God work and provide in my life.
Why do I still want to hold and cry on my WW is something I still don't understand fully.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 06/01/16 07:38 PM
Asked my attorney to begin preparations for allowing my WW to pursue the divorce by way a a witness testifying that we are incompatible (original grounds she filed under).

My attorney said I probably won't even need to attend court - and I will never have admitted we are incompatible...
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 06/01/16 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Asked my attorney to begin preparations for allowing my WW to pursue the divorce by way a a witness testifying that we are incompatible (original grounds she filed under).

My attorney said I probably won't even need to attend court - and I will never have admitted we are incompatible...

That is how mine went. My ex had to go to court because she was the one that filed, but I didn't have to go. My absence at the hearing was my final protest.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 06/27/16 06:43 PM
I will be divorced on Wednesday this week. Its been pretty quiet did some work with my attorney trying to stay right side up financially - her settlement papers were absolutely ludicrous.

Anyways, I will let you know if I need to show up at court. My atty is supposed to let me know.

Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 06/27/16 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I will be divorced on Wednesday this week.
I'm so sorry, WC.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 06/27/16 10:57 PM
I'm so sorry, WrestlerChemist.
Posted By: Elaina7 Re: My situation. - 06/28/16 12:19 AM
Sorry WC. How are you doing with it?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 06/28/16 01:21 PM
Thanks for the heartfelt messages guys -

I just found out today that I will be needed in court after all, so for the first time since Nov. '15, I will likely be seeing her.

In terms of emotions, I like to think I am the higher ground. I feel like I present well now and have new confidence. I am actually kind of happy I need to go to court that way I can display that I am not completely destroyed...

Any ways - Atty is still working to get me as many $$ as he can so I can be the higher ground in more ways than just feeling it.




Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 06/28/16 03:53 PM
So sorry to hear this, WC. I will be keeping you in my prayers.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 06/30/16 03:08 PM
Well guys, here's how everything went yesterday. Pretty stupid ending but oh well.

She was there with her mom. Her mom was the witness that testified incompatibility between me and her daughter. Then obviously my wife took the stand and testified incompatibility as well. I withdrew any comments, and the magistrate granted my wife the divorce. (All expected)

Before that, apparently my wife was, in the words of my attorney, "Very emotional about a divorce she apparently wants." And she had the audacity to ask for the dogs, which my attorney quickly snuffed out.

My wife's attorney advocated that I take my Cheatersreport.com entry down with the OM's picture, employer and full name. My attorney told me that might come up, but he used it to get more money from my wife's 401k. I agreed that - IF presented with all the necessary documentation to remove the entry from the website, I would sign it. (in summary, I am not lifting a finger to remove that, only signing. I don't even really know how to remove those things).

Financially, I believe I made out as well as I could (really everyone is kind of a loser in the end, but hey). I was very impressed with my attorney. I am so happy I had the help from you guys to ask the right questions to him as well as the suggestion to use this attorney from SexyMamaBear and HerPapaBear. He was infinitely better than her "Google search : divorce attorney near me" lawyer.

Now, for some non-legal information. You all know this was the first time I have seen my wife since November 2015. Let me tell you this... she looked awful. She had no luster, radiance or glow. For lack of better terms, she looked "dead and gray." I looked great. I had many compliments about my appearance that morning. As soon as I entered the courthouse waiting room, those two saw me and scurried away.

I am a little agitated, but I told SMB last night that I finally am at the point where if she wants to try again she will have to do so as if she was a complete stranger - I am done "pursuing" her. I will never be able to forget her and her mom saying, under oath, that we are incompatible. And her mom said "Yes" to the magistrate's question of "DO you believe your daughter to be an honest and trustworthy person?"

Everything else was pretty boring. Thanks for listening guys!


Posted By: SugarCane Re: My situation. - 06/30/16 04:52 PM
Ouch. That must have hurt, WC. Again, I'm really sorry that it came to this.

It sounds as if you were a star, though!
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 06/30/16 07:19 PM
It's sad, but I think it was on MB that someone said to me, if they don't come back, you didn't want them back, anyway. The point being, if they haven't looked inside themselves and realized their own mistakes and poor behavior, then you'd just be setting yourself up for a false recovery. You've come through this experience, and it's made you a stronger person. You have a bright future ahead of you. Her? Not so much.
Posted By: mrEureka Re: My situation. - 06/30/16 07:48 PM
One is pretty much at rock bottom if even Mom won't stick up for you! She still has Mom on her side, so she has room left to drop another notch later.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 07/08/16 02:39 PM
So sorry, WC.

I know this was tough but I predict many great things coming in your future!
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 07/09/16 02:37 AM
So sorry to hear, WC. But in a way, having been there, I am happy for you that the tailspin of this is over for you. It may not feel this way yet but you are liberated now from any obligation to the person who is the biggest threat to your happiness and well-being on planet Earth.

The road forward is wide open and you have had such a great attitude about the MB program that I am sure all of this will manifest itself as first class extraordinary care skills for some lucky lady that you have yet to meet.

Praying for you!
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 07/15/16 04:07 AM
Hey all - got an email from my EX-wife the other day. It really made "moving on" a lot simpler. Its absolutely disgusting... anyways I'll just post it here for you to look through.


WrestlerChemist,

I want to write you this letter to let you know that *OM #2* and I had a year long emotional and physical affair between 2014-2015.

I was having an affair for over a year with someone else. I so desperately wanted attention that I got it outside of my marriage. I decided a long time ago when the affair with *OM #2* started that I didn�t want to be with you and that I wouldn�t be with you forever. You even knew that something was going on between us and you didn�t care enough to do anything about it. Don�t get me wrong, I didn�t want to leave you for *OM#2*, I just knew that I our marriage was never going to work for either of us.

All of the hatred that you toward *OM#1* (the one that started this thread) and his family through was directed at the wrong person. *OM#1* is not the reason that I left you and he is not the reason that we got divorced.

I cannot begin to describe the disgust that I have for you and what you have done to me, my family and most importantly to *OM#1* and his family. What you did to him by harassing him, his immediate family, his cousins and relatives AND his work place is inexcusable and I don�t know how you can live with yourself for what you did.

You deserve to know that you directed all of your hatred at the wrong man and the wrong family. *OM#1* put up with everything that you put him and his family through because of how much he loves me. I know your intentions were only to hurt and destroy that but it didn�t matter. The only thing I regret is not telling you sooner about the affair with *OM#2*. It could�ve saved *OM#1* and his family a lot of heartache.
All in all, I want to make sure that you know why this marriage ended, and it had nothing to do with *OM#1*. It didn't work because we were not supposed to be together, we were two different people who grew in different directions.

I already told *OM#2*'s wife and made her aware of the affair. There are certain things I can�t live with and that is one of them. I am trying to right my wrongs and make up for the things I have done and the people I have hurt. I let *OM#1* take the fall for our marriage ending and that is my biggest regret of all, he should�ve never had to do that.


Lets just say --- there is zero percent chance I will ever get back with this woman, Sorry guys I ignored your advice to just get it done and done.

I sent this to OM2's wife just in case my exwife was lying - which she is certainly capable of.

I am pretty sure she was trying to harass me into taking my Cheatersreport post down for OM#1, which by now they are finding is quite "sticky" in the internet world.

I am feeling positive and liberated, as you each mentioned. I am thinking about finishing up coaching here and leaving the state in mid-2017 to get a new start... work has not been going great here to be honest. I have this job because it needed to be close to her parents, which obviously is not an issue anymore.

Thanks guys! I will be in touch.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My situation. - 07/15/16 12:06 PM
Wow WC I'm so sorry you had to read such a disgusting spout of waywardness. You truly deserve so much better.

Good job on sending that to OM2's BW.

Now shut all the ways she can contact you and enjoy your new recovered life.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: My situation. - 07/15/16 03:03 PM
Yes good job that you exposed the OMW2. This way that you know she has the truth.
Posted By: apples123 Re: My situation. - 07/15/16 07:10 PM
Can you move now so she cant send you more crap like that?
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 07/15/16 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by apples123
Can you move now so she cant send you more crap like that?

I cannot move just yet - I already committed to coaching wrestling for this season. I am planning on moving to Florida in May '17, after wrestling season.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: My situation. - 07/16/16 10:43 AM
I would tell XWW how can you believe her now?

For past behavior is an indicator of future behavior. All you/WW have done is lie and hide the truth from me.

So there is no way for me to know how true your latest claim is true. Most likely you are only telling me things that are to your benefit. Which indicates that you would not reveal much in the way that would put you in a bad light. So you/WW are still putting a spin on things.

XWW spinning is still lying because those words are designed to mislead, misdirect me from the truth. Keeping facts hidden is still lying. That is lying by omission.

At this point it is past the point of your attempt to talk about what happened.

I did nothing wrong. It was you, OM1, and OM2's behavior that hurt and caused pain for others. I was not an AP butting into other WS's marriages.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: My situation. - 07/16/16 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Originally Posted by apples123
Can you move now so she cant send you more crap like that?

I cannot move just yet - I already committed to coaching wrestling for this season. I am planning on moving to Florida in May '17, after wrestling season.

There is plenty of time for them to find another coach before the season starts.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: My situation. - 07/16/16 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
I let *OM#1* take the fall for our marriage ending and that is my biggest regret of all, he should�ve never had to do that.

Isn't it so amazing how a wayward never takes accountability for their own bad behavior? Somehow YOU are to blame even though she sat there silently while OM1 took the blame? All she had to do was speak up.
Posted By: WrestlerChemist Re: My situation. - 07/16/16 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
There is plenty of time for them to find another coach before the season starts.

Yah, I am really not prepared anyways to leave this moment. I figured the length of a season (less than a year from now) would be enough time for me to find a house, a job, etc. and make sure it is just well-thought out.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Isn't it so amazing how a wayward never takes accountability for their own bad behavior? Somehow YOU are to blame even though she sat there silently while OM1 took the blame? All she had to do was speak up.

Its pretty crazy. I really can't wrap my head around the whole thing. SexyMamaBear said do not respond to her... it will fester her to think "did he read it?" blah.

Waywards are crazy and I never want to deal with them again. ugh.
Posted By: AnyWife Re: My situation. - 07/17/16 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Isn't it so amazing how a wayward never takes accountability for their own bad behavior? Somehow YOU are to blame even though she sat there silently while OM1 took the blame? All she had to do was speak up.

Yeah, that's rich. If OM#1 took the blame because "he loved her so much." (gag), what does it say about her character that she silently let him take all the blame while she was skanking around with OM#2?

And she brags about this? Idiot. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


Originally Posted by WrestlerChemist
Its pretty crazy. I really can't wrap my head around the whole thing. SexyMamaBear said do not respond to her... it will fester her to think "did he read it?" blah.

Waywards are crazy and I never want to deal with them again. ugh.

I agree with SexyMamaBear, I would never reply. Don't encourage crazy!
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My situation. - 07/19/16 03:21 PM
Dr Harley told me regarding regarding my ex H and in general a WS who gets a divorce due to their affair:
"There are mistakes that you learn from - this kind of mistake is one that a person never recovers from. I predict your exH will suffer from depression for the rest of his life".

The letter from your ex WW reminded me of that conversation I had with Dr Harley. To add insult to injury, these type of people blame their unhappiness on us, the BS. I'm 4 years out from my D and my ex STILL blames his problems in life on me and to this day it would probably make him happy to see me suffer. (ask SMB or tst, they know my situation well and can tell you I am not exaggerating!)

Anyway, I think maybe it is a blessing that you received that vile letter so that you can move forward and not look back. Be glad that you do not have kids with this woman and can forget about her.

Sorry for the pain it caused regardless.
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 07/19/16 07:10 PM
You acted honorably. There's no need to question why you couldn't let go right away. When you were ready, you moved on. There's light at the end of the tunnel. I've remarried, and I'm happier than ever. I held on to hope longer than I should have, too. It just takes time. No regrets, buddy.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 07/19/16 09:24 PM
It's amazing how similar they all sound, as has been said so many times on this board.

Agree with SMB, DON'T respond. Hit the delete button and maybe even block her email address. You should be in Plan B right now, IMO. There's nothing left here to hold the door open for.

Remember always that she is a master manipulator and that this is simply trying to stab you emotionally, because it's the only play she has left with you. Waywards nearly all accuse betrayed spouses of being "manipulative" but as you can see here it is their own experience with lying and deceit that reveals this to be their own strong suit.

This was 100% about trying to make you feel bad, there is no honest message trying to be conveyed or honesty to it. The OM in my situation was an experienced homewrecker with 3 kids on CS by different moms and multiple divorces, and in the 1 email I got from my XWW, she was insistent that I had somehow destroyed his life by exposing, even with that track record. Same old, same old.

And maybe I'm a bit old school about this, but even IF you destroyed this guy's reputation or whatever, God knows he had it coming.

"Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned? Can a man walk on hot coals without his feet being scorched? So is he who sleeps with another man�s wife; no one who touches her will go unpunished."

Proverbs 6:27-29

As far as I'm concerned exposing OPs is a public service because OPs are complicit in the destruction of lives and families. If this wasn't true, then exposure would be pointless because nobody would have any reaction. But the community reaction itself is evidence to the extremely destructive nature of adultery.

You are not only in the right but to be commended for not shirking away and sweeping this under the rug like so many do. You stood up for what is right, not only for yourself, but for the families involved and your community.
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: My situation. - 07/19/16 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
I've remarried, and I'm happier than ever.

What? When?
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 07/19/16 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Originally Posted by nmwb77
I've remarried, and I'm happier than ever.

What? When?

Last week. smile My wife is totally on board with Marriage Builders. We've read HNHN and are now doing the couple's devotional together. I had no idea what I was missing. It's like night and day. She's such a contrast to my exww it's unbelievable.
Posted By: PigletWiglet Re: My situation. - 07/19/16 10:34 PM
LoL....we were all in the same "class" as it were, AX, NMWB and I. I am still trying to get divorced two years later. At least you didn't have a WH, WrestlerChemist, the tend to try to hang on to you for no go reason while claiming to want to divorce you.

Yes, go into a Dark Plan B. It is the safest and most healing place to be. If you have questions about how to Plan B to full effect, ask them here. The first step is cutting off all communication.

Congrats, NMWB!
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 07/19/16 10:38 PM
Thanks, PW! Yes, Plan B and permanent no contact is very freeing. I no longer harbor any ill feelings toward my exww, but I'm very glad that I never have to speak to her or see her again.
Posted By: markos Re: My situation. - 07/20/16 03:30 AM
(Threadjack) congrats nmwb!
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: My situation. - 07/21/16 12:26 AM
Thanks, Markos! Sorry for the threadjack, WC. smile
Posted By: black_raven Re: My situation. - 07/23/16 02:32 AM
Sorry for your hurt, WC but you are better off without a delusional serial cheating wife. I would keep the email for the time being and just sit on it. You have a written admission of her serial cheating. Might be a nice exposure X-mas card to some of her family and friends. smirk Until enough time has passed, I would just keep it. Last thing you need is some POSOM trying to sue you for slander or some other nonsense that can rear it's ugly head in the short term.
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