I was told by some family to get on these forums for help/advice by "sexymommabear" and "Herpapabear"

My wife and I are both turning 25 in a month or so. We have been married for a little over 2 years. We have no kids, we miscarried a few months ago. We are both about equally accomplished in our career paths, but she works in corporate so she makes more money than me. We have a house that's 1.5years into its mortgage, 2 cars that are not paid off yet and we both have student loans - however, we have never missed a payment and have no trouble making these payments.
Three weeks ago, my wife had an affair. A workplace affair - albeit he works for the company from a different state. In two days, she is getting on a plane to see him again.
I do not want to divorce her, I love this woman with everything I am. I made a commitment to her before God. She's determined to leave me.
For starts, I need help Exposing & Ending a workplace affair in a way that is not vindictive or spiteful. I want this affair to end because I care about her, and this affair is dangerous for her - regardless of if my marriage survives.
I appreciate anyone that tells me I should leave her, but that is not an option for me at the moment. She is my one and only.

Thanks for any insight.
WrestlerChemist

Welcome to MB. Sorry for the circumstances that bring you here.

Is OM married? Workplace exposure it crucial to nuke this affair. Is OM in a management position?

Who have you exposed the affair to so far?

WrestlerChemist, I am heartbroken for you and your wife. I am sitting here in tears for you.

black_raven, MelodyLane, Mr. & Mrs. Wondering, MarriedForever and Neak were some of the wise people who walked me through my darkest times. I hope they will show up here. You are in good hands with them.

We are praying for you and for Mrs. WrestlerChemist.

Exposure will always appear spiteful and vindictive to the wayward spouse but your marriage can survive her anger.....her ongoing affair not so much.

As long as your exposure is done with the intent of breaking up the affair and saving your wife from making the biggest mistake of her life versus simply punishing her for cheating on you...it's not vindictive.

short term marriage without children....go big on exposure. You got one big shot to bust things up.

Tell us about OM's side of things. Is he married? It's often much easier to get the OM to dump your wife than to get a wayward wife to look at reality. She's got to become more trouble than she is worth. That happens when everyone he knows and loves is giving him grief for messing with a married woman and he knows he can't show his face anywhere with her. If he's single....he's got a world of single women to pursue that have a lot less baggage than your wife. You just have to make the baggage even heavier.

You need to worry less about how the exposure might be perceived, and concentrate on making it the most effective. You should expose to everybody at once. You don't want to give the affair partners time to spin a story. You want the exposure to swamp them like a tidal wave. That will give you the best chance of crushing the fantasy that supports the affair.

My wife has intentionally kept information pertaining to him a secret. All I know is that he is in the same company and he is single.

I believe she has kept it a secret for the fact that she doesn't want me to expose her. However, I have plenty to expose her with... I am afraid to appear spiteful (as you have mentioned, I should worry less about that).

So far the only people that know are her parents, my brother and anyone she has told in private.

Hi WC, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. Exposure is your most powerful weapon against the affair. Affairs thrive and grow on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only serves to enable the affair. Don't worry about what anyone may say about exposure because those people won't pay the price. YOU WILL. It is not their getting gored, after all. Don't let it concern you one bit.

Please go read through the exposure thread linked in my signature and come back and lets talk.

I would find out who he is and check out his facebook page. Finding out his name, etc, will be a critical first step in saving your marriage.

I should probably mention that my wife and I seldomnly are on Facebook. That being said - I did take your advice and look when this was first happening. I could only really narrow it down to four people (1 mutal friend - my wife, works at same company..etc) She does you Facebook messenger, but there is no way I know to view that. If she doesn't tell me his name I do not know how to get it.
The four Facebook friends have not been active since like 2014 in some cases. But I do have reason to believe they primarily communicated through Facebook messenger.

The way to get that is to put spyware on the device she is using. What does she use? Do you know the password?

Of course your wife wants to keep her affair secret. Everybody in an affair wants secrecy. Secrecy enables affairs. That is why exposure is so effective at disrupting them.

What you are likely to discover eventually is that you played a surprisingly small role in your wife's affair. She didn't think about you at all. It was all about maintaining her fantasy.

She uses a Samsung phone - I have zero access to it. I have already looked into the spyware and apps I would need to download on her phone. Also, I do not know her unlock password.

I forgot to also mention, she is somewhat moved out of the house. She does not sleep or do anything at the house.

Mr eureka, I totally understand. Some of the other comments were asking for the OM name - which I simply have no means of obtaining.

WC, you have to get his name. Can you slip spyware on her phone? Have you looked at her phone bill? Surely she is talking to him on the phone.

check this out: http://www.teensafe.com/

Can you get a PI? She is meeting him. A PI could follow and get you further proof and a name.

Hi, WC. Herpapabear was the best mentor I ever had from this forum in the process of saving my marriage and becoming a better husband. Sexymamabear helped persuade my wife to reveal her Facebook affair, which was primarily conducted through Facebook messenger. I will always be in their debt.

Do not talk to your wife about exposing her affair. This is something to do unilaterally. She will make her own decision about how to perceive your motives. There is a good chance she won't feel positive about it for a long time, but that is fine. Just walk through the steps and get the information and get it done.

Please pay very close attention to MelodyLane (as I'm sure HPB and SMB have already advised you) - her years of experience at ending affairs are legendary.

You have to find out the information about this affair, starting with the person's identity. This is a problem that must be solved! Does she facebook with him on a computer at all? I'd get keylogging software onto that computer pronto.

WC - I sense that you are somebody who likes to follow the rules and do things cleanly. These traits are not going to serve you well at this point in time. You need to become objective-oriented about what you do. Finding out details about the OM is the top priority. Your wife has no reasonable expectation of privacy from you as her husband. You need to get aggressive. Saving your marriage might just require that you step on the grass.

I just don't have physical access to her phone and she is the primary owner of our phone service. Without asking her for the account password - I cannot view our paperless bills.

Her parents have also stated that they are fearful of her losing her job. But are agreeing that it cannot be a secret anymore.
I am someone who plays by the rules, and I do get the feeling that its not going to help me here.

Should I give her the chance to not get on the plane? (Albeit a lost cause) or do I just pull the trigger and let everyone outside of her work know?

Let everyone including her work know.

Can you get a PI? Can you try to break the password?

To do an effective exposure, you simply have to know who the OM is. You need to find out this essential piece of information first. You need to expose to his contacts as well as to hers.

Obviously, workplace exposure will be seriously compromised if you go to her employer and say "I know she is having an affair with someone at work, but I have no idea who."

I told one of her coworkers today and as expected, She has detonated in my face. Called me immediately furious. Said she is talking to a lawyer this afternoon to draw up papers.

I guess it's going well so far...

And what did you expect? She wants to control you, and you are giving her every opportunity to do so if you trickle-expose.

You need to be strategic about this. That is why you have to find out about the OM, then gather all your information together and send it to all your exposure targets all at once. You are trying to blow up the affair, and you are going to have to build an exposure bomb to do so. Trickling the exposure out just enables the affair partners to maneuver and frustrate you. They have all the reason in the world to fear you. Don't give away your advantage.

Find out who the OM is. Solve the problems that are standing in the way of figuring this out. If you have to, hire a private investigator.

WC, the plan here works very well if you follow it.

But if you start getting steps out of order, like exposing before you have the identity of the OM, the plan will not work well.

It's probably a bit of an understatement to say that I advocate following the plan. It works a lot better than not following it.

Don't tell us why you can't do something and then skip to the next step or start talking about what other things you could do. That won't work!!!

You simply MUST solve the problems that are preventing you from doing what needs to be done. You must know who the OM is before you proceed further. Stay on point, don't move on to something else, assuming you want to save your marriage.

That's a perfect opportunity for a PI.

I found the ID of the other man. and his telephone #.

Should I call him myself? Make it known I know his name ?

You need to follow the steps in MelodyLane's exposure thread. If you contact him first you will tip him off, and then you will never be able to find his mother and friends on Facebook, because he will cut you off. He will also spin the story of how a jealous husband thinks OM is after his wife, when it is no such thing because they are only friends at work.

You MUST listen to advice and follow the steps outlined. You seem to have a problem calming down, listening, and acting strategically. This will cause you immense problems.

PS: How do you know it is him? How did you discover this?

I got onto our phone bill - reverse looked up his phone number.

He has no family on Facebook except his brother who I reached out too.

So you have already continued the trickle exposures, despite having been told to stop doing this earlier, when you informed someone at work.

Also - you are missing my point!

If he realises that you have found him on FB, he will shut it down - block you from viewing it - and then you will never be able to research other people. The first thing you should have done is copied all his FB contacts into a Word document, for use later. He is absolutely BOUND to block you when he knows that you have found him.

His other contacts could lead indirectly to the name of his mother or sister - don't forget that they might have different surnames from him.

You can find a lot of contacts by researching friends of friends, and the groups that OM belongs to, but if you won't stop and follow the steps that you've been told about, you will lose the opportunity to make this affair painful for him, and make it stop.

Is he married?

He is not married.

As I stated before. His Facebook is completely blank... Nobody involved in the scenario relies on FB. I have told all family members so far on my side and her side, I have told many friends of hers, one coworker and his Brother. The article says aim to tell everyone in about 24hours.
Her parents do not want me to tell her boss because they don't want her to lose her job.

Don't reach out to anybody else until the people here confirm that you have enough information. PLAN! AIM! Don't just start firing!

Ok. Sorry guys. I thought I understood...

Any advice how to respond when she calls in a fury - I have kept the exposure article in mind in that I do not say anyone told me. I am saying its my plan and I am not keeping secrets...

Any other advice?

That is not what you stated before. You said that he had "no family on FB except his brother" - how is that completely blank?

And why are you arguing with me? Shall I leave you to get on with this your way?

Just don't talk about the exposure with her. She will be mad and there will be no way to reason with her. Don't attempt to tell her your motivations were pure and not vindictive or whatever - she won't care what you have to say, so just don't argue with her. As I said earlier "Do not talk to your wife about exposing her affair. This is something to do unilaterally. She will make her own decision about how to perceive your motives. There is a good chance she won't feel positive about it for a long time, but that is fine. Just walk through the steps and get the information and get it done."

But for now, make sure you gather all the information you need, first. You did GREAT tracking down the OM's identity!

You might lose some support from her parents but they are simply enabling her. It sounds like they are even letting her stay and sleep at their house which is actually interfering in itself.

If you divorce...your inlaws will end up on her side and supporting her bad choices aside. At the risk of upsetting them....expose her to her boss. You are actually being told she MIGHT actually lose her job over this....that's a good thing. She probably should lose her job. There are policies regarding workplace affairs for a reason. Maybe the boss is religious and simply won't support and enable affairs. All the more reason to expose as it is the bosses choice to continue to employ her or not.

Simply ---- It is the affair that will get her fired...NOT reporting the affair to management.

That being said....you don't want to expose to management by phone. A professional letter emailed to the President/Owner and copying the head of human resources basically saying they are having an affair, you hope to save your marriage and asking them what they intend to do about it. There is a form letter on MelodyLane's exposure thread somewhere.


Finding OM's mother is key to a good exposure. If OM likes his mom at all...he won't like the looks she gives him over finding out her son is dating a married woman. Some parents don't care...but most would. Not to mention, t'll make the fantasy of being the mom's favorite daughter in law a pipe dream. OM will be embarrassed to ever bring your wife around his family and; eventually, OM decides that the relationship is just too big a hassle. He dumps your wife and THEN your wife wakes up and say "what the heck was I thinking? or not (some never regain their sanity - I actually get a kick out of reading a tiny forum on the internet just full unrepentant adulterers whining about their now miserable lives that is, tongue in cheek, so obviously not their fault).

If you need help...as a trusted friend of herpapabear and sexymamabear (confirm with them yourself- don't take my word for it) email me the information you have and my wife and I might be able to find a lot more.

As far as your wife getting mad. Just let her rant and the longer you keep her talking to you and even yelling at you the more time you are spending with her that she isn't talking/chatting with OM and the more of her emotional need for conversation you meet. I just kind of took a "oops, was that bad? You're right, maybe I shouldn't have done that...I've never been cheated on before and I don't know what is the right thing to do. I just know I'm trying to save you from making the biggest mistake of your life. The path of the adulterours woman is a destructive one and you'll be miserable, lost and, by law, damed if you continue down this path. In addition, what kind of guy pursues and has an affair with a married woman? You are being attacked and I mean to save you if I can. So what would you like for dinner?

"
Her parents have also stated that they are fearful of her losing her job. But are agreeing that it cannot be a secret anymore. "

Doing some catch up, but wanted to respond to this. You should be fearful that she does NOT lose her job, because that is your only hope. She has already ruined her career at that company. I assure it is only a matter of time before they find out on their own. They will either fire her or quietly manage her out. Hiring managers do not want workplace cheaters on their teams because they are unprofessional and can't be trusted. They are loose cannons.

WC, I would get these exposures wrapped up today. Expose to her workplace and to the OM's parents. You can google the OM and see if you can find his parents. Don't give up until this is completed because it is a critical exposure.

Did you read the directions for workplace exposure?

Thanks guys just a heads up - I worked on exposure all day. It was extremely hard...
Every person I told felt more and more like a betrayal. But - sexymommabear and HerPapaBear, told me that I did really well.
I told Her boss, her brother, my brother, her three best girlfriends, two of her coworkers and the best I could get on the OM was two messages out to his brother and sister (found later). I Know it was not advised but I told the OM I know his Identity (which he was probably pretty certain was going to be kept secret). I thought that would help "increase her baggage". Her parents, my parents and two of her uncles already knew.

I'm sorry if I fell short of your guys expectations but I tried hard. While she has betrayed her commitment to me, its still hard for me to cross her.

Goal moving forward - remain extremely low and let her love bust him.

You did an outstanding job of exposing. It is never an easy thing to do, but you did what was necessary anyway.

Now let the fallout land on everyone else while you stay quiet for a few days.

Just stay clam and strong bro. i been in that situation like you before. and i know how the feeling. good way to expose.

You did great!! Only thing I would suggest doing would be sending a letter to the director of HR, a key VP and the OM's parents. The affair should be formally exposed at her workplace. It is not uncommon for a direct boss to hide an affair. This is why it is so critical to expose to several authorties at work. Let them knwo the OM and your wife plan on hooking up this weekend!

OM's parents will be a MAJOR exposure that will help you ruin the affair. Find them! Don't give up until you do.

I think you did great contacting the OM and telling him you know!! The message you should send him is this:

]
Who told her uncles? DID YOU? And are they using their influence to persuade her to end her affair?

]
What did you say to him? I would also expose the affair tonight to his supervisor and the HR Director in his location.

You did what you had to do to give the recovery of your marriage its very best chance for success. Your feelings are deceiving. You did well, and believe it or not, the day may come when your wife will actually thank you for doing this. Just expect to have to endure much more before the fog dissipates.

You did well, WC.


The messages to OM's brother and sister...I'm assuming this is a fb message. Did you pay the $1 to get the message to the inbox? If you didn't pay and these people are not on your friend list, the message will go to the spam folder and no notification is sent. Resend and pay the $2 for the two messages if that is the case. I believe you also have to send the message from a computer vs a cell phone for this option to appear.

Hope you are able to get some sleep.

I did pay the $1 to get them sent to their inbox.

Update for today - "the gates are open"

She has called me about 30 times, I did answer once to tell her "I love you, and I care about you. I am trying to end this affair because its dangerous for you." She obviously did not like that response - just like I knew she would not.

She is claiming I have the wrong OM, which I would say is probably false. The OM did call me and I answered (did not remember the number), he was our dialogue roughly:
"This is OM, is this WrestlerChemist"
- Yah, how's it going?
"I am pretty concerned about these accusations, I do not really understand."
-You are having an affair with my wife, what's to understand?
"We are just friends"
-You two talk on the phone for 90 minute intervals a lot of times for friends, and she doesn't just fly to SC for friends.
"Oh, shes flying to SC, I didn't know that. I don't appreciate that you have my brother involved. You are going a long way for this accusation. And you are wrong."
-IF I am wrong, then your safe. Have a good day.

He sounded like the right guy - trying to act innocent and he was really sarcastic.

My wife said she hates me more than anybody on Earth, but I prayed about that. I am still fearful that this may not work out, but I have done the best I can do to salvage this marriage...

I will keep updates coming. If you guys have an additional advice I am open ears. Thanks

How did you find out about the affair? Did she admit it to you?

WC, can you go back and address my posts from yesterday? thanks

They always say that. It means you hit close to the mark.

Now, go back and reread MelodyLane's posts from yesterday and answer her questions.

Melody, Sorry.

I told him that I am aware of the affair he is having with my wife.

Her dad told her uncles.

She told me about the affair, but not the individual.

I do not know how to get in contact with anyone higher than my wife's boss, let alone someone from another state.

She just texted me - "Why are you all the sudden deciding that you all you want to do is hurt me?"

My heart aches for her so much, but I chose a path and I believe this is the only way I can save my marriage. I am done responding to her at least I would say until Monday.

I have talked to sexymommabear and Herpapabear about meeting up in person to decide/prepare for next steps...

Good deal. That is your evidence.


i would contact them directly. Use the talking points on my exposure thread and ask them to use their influence with your WW to persuade her to end her affair.



Figure this out. Go to their webpage, call the company and ask for the name of the Director of HR. You don't just stop and give up. Stay on this.

You also need to find the oM's parents. Have you found them yet?

The purpose of exposure is 2-fold, it is to gain support for your marriage and splash a dose of reality on the affair. It is no fun to get high on crack when people are all watching you. An affair is like a crack addiction. So just telling the uncles about the affair is not sufficient, you need their support. It would be ideal if they could call her and express their disappointment and ask her to end her affair. Use these talking points:

I am calling [emailing] you because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a man named XXX. She is flying to be with him this weekend. I am devastated because I love her so much.

She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As her family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

You hit the mark.
Friends in "adultery speak" = affair partner(at minimum emotional).

You are correct opposite sex "friends" do not speak on the phone for 90min repeatedly.

You did GREAT!!! My husband once told me that I ruined everything and he was going to try to give me a chance until I told everyone, yeaaaaaaah ok. For what its worth, exposure DID save my marriage. We're 2 years out and better than we have ever been in our entire marriage. Even if you don't recover your marriage, you will recover YOURSELF and you will be better for it! You've got this. Keep on the path with the guidance you're given here and your life will change.

Keep working on the exposure.

Don't forget that you can't debate her on this, so don't even try. Just keep doing the right thing.

(Tell SMB and HPB that markos and Prisca say hi!)

I have lost support from my wife's parents... Albeit likely temporary. They said I went too far with the exposure. I'm pretty stuck now - the waiting game is no fun.

I feel your pain on this. My MIL had a similar reaction. Although, I will say this comes from a side of the family with very weak, if not disfunctional marriages. I did not find that anyone that appreciated the value of marriage oposed the exposure, but those with weak values did. When your inlaws show weak values it partially explains why you spouse got caught up with infadelity in the first place.

Contact the uncles directly, as MelodyLane. Don't rely on her dad doing it, because he is apparently a friend of the affair, not of the marriage.

Don't wait! Don't drag out exposure! Get this done!

Reread MelodyLane's posts and see what else you could be doing.

Don't let this bother you. Many people do not understand the value of exposure. But they are not the ones who will suffer the consequences if you didn't expose. You are the one whose ox is getting gored, NOT THEM. Follow the professional and seasoned advice of a clinical psychologist who has been saving marriages for 40 years:

When Should an Affair Be Exposed? by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

So while I know your in-laws mean well, they have no experience in saving marriages. Dr. Harley DOES.

Thanks Melody for the reassurance. My wife's parents are some of the most Godly people I know, and they have excellent marriage values. They are on an emotional roller coaster, not as extreme as mine. They are thinking "how could our daughter do anything like this?"
I do believe in what I've done. I have talked to a lot of her close friends and family members. I just keep letting them know that the affair is dangerous and needs to end.
I am 99.9% sure she got on the plane last night, hopefully I induced enough panic on the right OM to make them two love bust each other... I am prepared to keep this fight up much longer than a few days - but let's just say, its nice to hope she gets back and ends the affair due to outside pressures...
I am doubtful though.

The bad thing I am starting to encounter as I tell some of her good work friends is that they all think "everyone is their own person at the end of the day." Exactly the mindset this company has put onto my wife...

But they all also think I am nuts for trying to work it out, that they could never bare the pain/betrayal. That's why I think this is going to work, because I am baring the pain and my love for her is shining through...

Some of the most Godly people I know have absolutely NO CLUE on how to recover from affairs. You are engaged in this process to save your marriage, and not to collect opinions from those around you on what they think you should be doing. Dr. Harley is an expert. Many of us have used his affair-recovery methods to great success.

Her parents thinking "how could our daughter do this?" is direct evidence that their opinions are worthless. We KNOW how she could do it. We have been through this ourselves. I personally am married to and very much in love with a woman who proved she could do it. We understand how it happens and what has to be done to save a marriage. Unfortunately, being Godly is not an attribute for knowing how to survive infidelity.

IF you have further discussions with her "Godly" parents you may have the opportunity to assert:

"Did you not entrust your daughter, in front of God and numerous witnesses to my care? If so, then you must trust me that I know what is best for her. She was God's gift to me and God is directing me to fight for her and try to save her from making the biggest mistake of her life [and thereafter]. I would really appreciate your 100% support right now but understand if you are skeptical of my efforts to save her. All I ask is that you not enable her rebellion against God."

If her parents are letting her stay there and continue to behave this way...that is a mistake and you should ask them to send her home and be offended if they do not respect your wishes. She is not an abused woman needing shelter. She is an adulterous woman seeking out and exploiting the weaknesses of those who care about her so she can continue down the adulterous path.

In the alternative...she can stay there only if they forbid her to conduct the affair under their roof in any way shape or manner and they follow through insuring that she sticks to their rules. If she ends the affair ...her parents house isn't the worst place for her to start defogging a bit. It's not the best alternative because parents aren't very good a holding a wayward wife accountable. It's preferable they send her home (or just make her leave).

Thanks Mr. Wondering - that is good notes for me if they communicate with me again. As a side note, I would be thrilled if she was staying with her parents.
She is actually staying with a coworker - who I told on exposure day. I don't know where she goes from here. Only time will tell on Sunday night when she gets back.

I have a question. When she gets back on Sunday night from her trip with the OM, what do I do?
Plan A right away? I kind of read Dr. Harleys Plan A recommendation as after the affair has ended... What do I do in the meantime? Keep laying low and protecring my LB?

Just some thoughts I had - and you guys have been so helpful thus far.

Plan A is intended for when the spouse is in an affair. In Plan A, you do your best to meet her needs and present yourself as an attractive person. No lovebusting, no fighting; don't allow her to BAIT you into fights. Tell her how much her affair hurts you and ask her to end affair.

I think that is really cute and winsome. Would they say this if she was a serial killer or a heroin addict? They are just "being their own person," right?

She is doing something very self destructive that will wreck her life so I find it interesting that her so-called "friends" would enable her in such a way. The reason they do is because they DON'T CARE. "Friends" don't sit around and parrot idiotic phrases when their friends are harming themselves. I don't have a single friend who would put up with me if I were having an affair. Not a single one. Because friends don't help friends harm themselves.

Those people are not her "friends." They clearly don't care about her.

Melody that's my exact thinking. They aren't her friends, they are someone who they've convinced my wife to join their lifestyle.

I will read up on Plan A as much as I can and plan on no love busting. I do have some questions about what exactly to say... I get "this affair is hurting me and I want you to end it."
But how many times can I say that? Could someone maybe give me like three phrases to come back to so I have a defined plan. I believe with a well thought out plan I will be best prepared so I never accidentally love bust.

Melody I am very appreciative of how quickly you generally respond by the way. Thank you.

You can say something like: "I am so very hurt by your affair and am asking that you end all contact with OM. This has broken my heart." Other than that, try to stay out of anything deep. Just be as pleasant as possible and don't talk about the problems. Keep it light!

The reason you don't want to get into any serious talks is because she is not using reason and you won't be able to reason with her. Serious talks will only make the environment very unpleasant.

You are very welcome!

This might be an odd question... But I am fully expecting that at least at first she is going to an attorney...
Anyone know how long I can contest/delay the divorce process? We live in Ohio.

This could happen in her "defogging" process while she is furious at me. I am still hopeful that she will come back around after the dust settles.

I am not sure about your laws there. I will tell you that almost all waywards threaten to file for divorce and few actually do. Even if your wife does, that doesn't mean it is the end. We have had people get remarried.

I second that, I guess you can call them fair weather friends, or something just not true friends.

So should I still be exposing? I realize that the "nuclear" exposure stage is well over, but should I still tell people as I am reminded of them? I told a couple other of her friends that I tracked down today... As per sexymammabear and herpapabear, I have been letting people know that they were cosigner to the vows we both took before God on our wedding day.

I have been getting tips to on Plan A.

Additionally, I placed an order for the book LoveBusters. It should be here Friday.

Do you have the book, Surviving an Affair?

Yes I read it a few times.

She's back in town now.....any reaction??? Often the wayward's response will be the silent treatment. In their foggy thinking they end up with the silent treatment being the best way to continue their affair without the interference of having to fight with their spouse. They know deep down they are in the wrong and arguing and getting angry with you over exposure is really non-sensical (and something they'd have done).

Plus...they think they can manage public perception by painting your exposure as mean, vindictive, untrue and abusive....and say "I'm not even talking to him, we are separated and I'm already in the process of filing a divorce...he is just trying to control me and make people hate me".

Don't sweat it. Your wife is out of her mind right now. Just tell the truth and keep on fighting and trying to save her. Like Melody said, when you interact with her...don't try to teach her. She's unteachable right now....so you really just confirm your position and keep it light and pleasant. As long as she's talking or yelling at you...she's not talking to OM. Long distant affairs are easier to fight since you don't usually have to deal with nightly "visits" between the affair partners. They just talk on the phone and/or facetime each other all day and night.

Any luck finding OM's family....parents?

Mr wondering -

She is back in town and there was some reaction. During her lunch break (so I wasn't home) she came back to the house and stripped it of many of her things. I spoke with HerPapaBear, explaining that the variety of things she took was really odd - almost like she was just in a blind fury.
As for the OM and exposure, I think I put down as many bullets as I could. Never tracked down his parents, but did get eventual responses from the sister and brother. Sexymamabear has assured me that by now the parents undoubtedly know.
My wife's parents and I are still not on talking terms, but its something I just have to live with. In fact the last time I spoke to my father in law he said "I think you went to far. She's so angry she may never recover." Then he insinuated that she may move away. I think he is delusional - his daughter could never move away from him. We lived in another state for 1 year and she hated not being around her family.
SMB and HPB have just told me to hang low and protect myself. I have some house projects I'm starting with my dad & I've started to read books more often. I'm starting LoveBusters.

I still check in about everyday on here. You guys are very helpful.

You are in very good hands!

[/quote]
You are in very good hands! [/quote]

They are very nice - I am glad to have family like them.

I have voiced to HPB that it was hard to read LoveBusters at first (and I cannot imagine it gets any easier at first). I am having lots of "you idiot" and "how could you be so stupid" moments to myself as I read it.

Join the club!!

My husband said the same thing.

You are in very good hands! [/quote]

They are very nice - I am glad to have family like them.

I have voiced to HPB that it was hard to read LoveBusters at first (and I cannot imagine it gets any easier at first). I am having lots of "you idiot" and "how could you be so stupid" moments to myself as I read it. [/quote]

I felt the every same things. it was really hard for me finish the book, it just made me so emotional and I started to cry.
I am getting emotional writing this.

Very well. Anger over exposure is a good sign. Sometimes it means deep down they DO have a conscience otherwise keeping up appearances wouldn't be an issue. Instead they'd just say "yes, we are having an affair, i love him and I'm going to go be with him". There would be no reason to be angry or fear losing their job or anything because in their mind...it'd be OK and acceptable. Since she knows it's NOT acceptable...it makes her angry to have it publicized.

As far as her moving...it would probably be better than her continuing this crap for 6 months or year and then moving there only to discover the relationship was a lie. If she goes now...OM has to meet all her needs....and she'll miss her family and she'll miss normal. She's likely to be back in about a month or two. Don't get me wrong....I'd certainly prefer she go "no contact" with OM right now and commit to recovery; but absent that, moving now might be just the amount of reality that relationship needs to end it. OM goes from having a side piece in another state to having a live in girlfriend with all sorts of typical wayward emotional and mental issues going on. OM truly might not even be up for it...he may have other girlfriends in his hometown and enjoy the affair game as a way to get women in bed versus truly having any desire to commit to your wife.




I know HPB goes to a large weekly morning men's bible study. If you aren't already, you should tag along. You and your wife remain "one flesh" and as Believers we are given power and authority over demons and the ability to heal. Pray for your flesh/wife. Cast out demons (from the both of you) and heal her wayward sickness. Check out the movie "War Room" and then fight for your wife spiritually as well.

Godspeed.

That does make me a little more confident in what I have done. She is absolutely furious. Her friends - upset. Her family - upset. She knows its wrong. I just get a little upset myself with her parents almost "aiding" her damage control.

I have been staying in contact with her slightly younger brother (who unfortunately had to find out from deployment about this all, he was very upset). He told me he is talking to her tonight. I do believe I have activated all the best players to let my wife know that its not just me that thinks this is a horrible idea - its everyone!. Except her coworkers of course, who just like the world and could care less about marriage.

I have voiced to SexyMammaBear that I struggle with the very graphic images - I feel like I am constantly praying them out of my mind. She is the only woman I have ever "been" with. I am young and I am a man (enough said). She is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, and I just struggle fighting off the perversity of him & her. Any advice as to combat this? SMB gave me some good advice naturally, but I thought I would ask this group as well.

The more furious, the more effective your exposure. Fury is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. We are HAPPY when we hear that a WS is "furious" over exposure because we know it was effective. Your marriage can survive anger over exposure, it can't survive an affair.


Great job on reaching out to her brother!


SMB is your best source of information. She not only knows this program inside and out, but she has fully recovered her marriage. I have the highest regard for SMB and TST.

The images go away with time.

Prior to now (and assuming she's sleeping with him...which is usually the case but not an absolute certainty), are you the only man she was ever with????

I ask that as a way of envisioning coping with this situation should you choose to recover someday. My wife's affair was with someone she dated in high school and a little in college. She was 28 when we married and I had no notions she was a virgin and I wasn't even close to being one either. In time (it's been over a decade now since the affair) I just kind of put the affair sex into the same category as the sex she (and I both) had prior to us getting married and didn't concern myself with dwelling on it or making myself resentful about it. She was with OM before I even met her and I never thought about so why should I think about this. It's not like I saw them together. It's not something we can ever undo. My wife regrets it. I regret it but dwelling on it doesn't accomplish anything. Further, I can also see how the sexual immorality of MY youth played a part in all my choices leading up to my marriage and my wife's affair. I can see how, in part, my wife's infidelity was a consequence of my prior sinful sexual immorality. I wasn't better than her...in the sexual purity sense. We were equally human and in need of repentance.

Conversely, I had another friend here on MB who married his wife when they were both virgins and his wife continued to have sex with both him and the OM during the affair. Unlike me, he was sexually pure and just couldn't stop thinking about and resenting the affair sex. He couldn't block out the thoughts of the sex she had with OM. He had no such compartment of "the sexually immoral things both my wife and I did before we were married" box to put the affair thoughts/memories into which caused him immense pain and suffering for years in recovery. As a Christian he tried fully to forgive "as far from the east to the west" but the wound kept reopening. It was the old comparison of hammering nails into the wooden fence....you can remove the nails but the holes remain. It was easy for me because both my wife and I already had a lot of holes in our fences...the virgin couple, not so much which made the new gaping holes much more difficult to deal with.

Another couple from here from Australia were virgins too, but the betrayed husband didn't seem to have anywhere near the struggles of the guy I mentioned above forgiving, wiping the slate clean and moving on with a MB marriage of extra-ordinary care. A big difference between the two stories might be the level of regret, remorse and repentance offered by their former wayward wives (I don't know their hearts - just my feeling on the subject of their repentance and lack thereof). If someone totals you car and just bondo's and duct tapes it back together, it's just never going to be drive right or be appreciated fully again; whereas, if they bring you home a new better car and go above beyond to make it up to you....you can move on much more easily putting the whole episode behind you. We can't tell you how your wife is going to be. I sometimes read on wayward forums (yes- the internet has something for everyone) where the supposedly former wayward wives are just cruel, abusive, substance abusing entitled unrepentant monsters blaming their betrayed husbands for every miserable self-inflicted problems in their lives. You are young and you don't have children - you should run away from your wife using your legitimate biblical out if she remains unrepentant. I also sometimes read on divorced betrayed forums and you'd think becoming a worthy wholly repentant former wayward wife is as likely as seeing a unicorn or Bigfoot. I don't know about you but my wife is the real deal and you certainly can see HPB is the real deal so it is possible but you'll never know what God and your wife are capable until you try, pray and until you get the chance.

I'm not selling you false hope. These are issues you are going to have to one day weigh if and when you get a shot at recovery. I know you FEEL right now that you've got to get her back and you can't envision a life without her; but, in time, you may realize that a life with her could be a huge mistake for you (and her). Can you overcome the thoughts/memories of her with another man? Can you continue on in a marriage with her....having children and facing those challenges without being resentful? Can you continue on in a marriage with her NOT wanting to even the score (having been a virgin, having a revenge affair and sex with just one other person might be compelling draw for you that if you choose to stay married you'll need to be ever diligent to protect against - I mean, can't you just envision satin whispering in your ear - "you deserve to have sex with another person too....look at that drunk co-worker...here is you chance to even the score...you forgave her, it's her turn to forgive you...you are entitled to it")?????

Things to ponder.

Godspeed.

I have a personal theory about that. The guy who didn't struggle handled the situation very differently. First off, he exposed the affair wide and far, even to his children. I think that very much contributed to her repentant attitude.


Secondly, they were very proactive in working the program and did create a romantic, passionate marriage afterwards. Like Harley always says, when one is happy in the present, their minds don't tend to go to the past. We have seen over and over again that couples who don't create a great marriage afterwards tend to be resentful.

She is 100% sleeping with him, she told me. Yes, she has only "been" with me until now. We had sex before marriage, but we were each others only sexual partner. Mr. Wondering, you have left me with some interesting thoughts to consider.

I do believe I can get over it. I do believe that time will heal the wounds, but as you said, only if she does eventually recognize the pain I've endured. If she is one of the unresentful ones, blaming me at every turn for the affair, etc. then maybe I will just have to accept that this is beyond repair.

I know my wife. This affair was bred out of an immense amount of temptation at her workplace (happy hours, "spouseless" corporate trips, etc) to commit the affair PLUS me not being a spiritual leader to help her fight those battles at work. She is a good person, shes just in a "fog" as you've all mentioned so many times. It may be too much to overcome - but I want to be the one that decides.

WC, if you do reconcile, she will need to get a job in an atmosphere that is not so detrimental to marriage. I can't even imagine what industry she is in, because my experience in corporate America is nothing like you describe.

Its funny really. She is absolutely determined that she cannot do anything else in her life except this job - which she is really good at. However, her dad is a "freelance entrepreneur" and she could definitely start a business and enjoy that. The fact is, she is so brilliant should could really do anything she wants.

Melody, we always joked about started a company together - but she always got scared of the money. I know that being business owners together could introduce new stresses on the marriage, but at least it would somewhat solve the atmosphere problem, and help affair proof the marriage (I think, if I am the one flirting with her at work, maybe no one else has to - just a thought). OUR dream a year ago was to open an athletic training facility and co-own it...

My brother works for the same company in a different city just 30 minutes away and said: "If it was common knowledge what happened on those corporate training events, no one in our region would have jobs." So, that is the company my wife thinks she cannot live without. Probably because its so tempting, and currently its fulfilling her. But its worldly and dangerous. I vowed to protect her from such things, I fell short, but I am not done fighting for her.

Re-reading this I recognize it did not have much structure. Sorry to just babble. I like being able to talk to people about it. You guys are saving my life. Thanks so much

Well, you did not fall short. She clearly chose to insert herself into a destructive sitution. She decided to play chicken with her marriage and got hit by a car. If she doesn't get out that career, she will get hit again. I am really surprised that this kind of behavior goes on in a corporation.

I have spent my career at 2 Fortune 500 companies and our corporate events are nothing like that. Our corporate culture is very, very anti affair. People who do have affairs are fired or "managed" out because they can't ever be trusted. We view them as loose cannons and walking legal liabilities.

Do you know that spouses have sued companies for workplace affairs? And won! You really should look into that. You might have a course of action against this company.

Husband whose wife had affair with co-worker can sue employer

Alienation of Affection & Employer Liability

Melody, that first link requires a login. Is that true? Can I sue my ex-wife's employer? They were alerted to the affair and did nothing as far as I know. I've been told they were called in front of HR, but no one at the company talked to me, so I assume I was slandered and accused of all sorts of things. Both of them still work at the company.

That's weird, I didn't have to log in to read it. Try this link: http://www.shrm.org/legalissues/stateandlocalresources/pages/cms_019341.aspx

This one requires a login for me, too (as well as the first one WC highlighted).

That one asks me to log in, too. I'm in TN where there are no AoA laws. Was the legal grounds AoA? I'm interested in suing the company if I can. They were jerks and just basically acted like I was crazy despite having solid proof, even that they were conducting the affair on the company's time.

Sorry for the hijack, WC.

darn, same thing!

Don't sweat the hijack. I hope you get something figured out.

Melody, by the way, I may be interested in AoA if this does go "south." Do not get me wrong, there are people at her company that are great family oriented people... just there are some bad eggs, which naturally are the most thrilling. I talked to one of her coworkers during the exposure and he said, "She is not breaking any company rules by dating outside the office, it just cannot be within the office." I wanted to reach through the phone and punch this guy - she is 'dating' shes having an AFFAIR you idiot.

Its so discouraging that my awesome wife got swallowed up by this culture through her workplace, and like an idiot I just stood by and watched, assuming everything was OK.

I guess now is as good a time as any to give you all some back story on my childhood and parents, as it may help you advice me moving forward in marriage.
I was raised in a house where love was assumed, never spoke. I did chores because it was my obligation as a son. I was punished for disrespect, but never rewarded for doing good things - after all, it was my obligation as a son. I told my mother that I loved her often, and she told me. But where I drew most of my development was from my father. Growing up, the respect for him was very high - so high that if I failed in any way I felt as if I let him down ( I was usually right, he would tell me). My parents were/are awesome. Everything I am today is because of the strong respect structure I had at home. I have only ever told my dad I loved him one time (prior to this affair) and that was in a letter I wrote him and hand delivered on the morning of my Wedding.

MY dad and I spoke on exposure day - which even at almost 25 y/o I was afraid that this was an instance where I had compromised his pride with my problems. He said he was proud to have raised a son that values marriage so deeply in a world that treats it like a "date." He said I am a stronger man than him for wanting this to work out despite the affair. He said he knew that I would always be a son who valued commitments, because I was raised different than the world.

I guess somethings I am trying to point out is -
1) My dad and I are closer now than ever from this affair.
2) I am too much like my dad, and my wife is too little like my mom.
3) How to deal with this "assumed love" family life that I have had so deeply ingrained to my life?

Long winded... but hey - its a long fight right?

WC, I am glad this has brought you closer to your father, but i am confused about what you are asking and what your childhood has to do with it. Can you summarize your question in one sentence?

I guess I am used to the structure of everyone in the home just knowing they are loved, even if its not verbally stated - that clearly does not work with my wife.

Anyone ever come into contact with that kind of issue? I am reading LoveBusters and its shining light on it tremendously.

I guess it would be helpful to hear some people's habits that help them combat this... Like "wake up every morning and ask your wife about her plans" etc.

Then you start expressing your love to your wife openly. IF she wants to be told you love her several times a day, then that is what you do.

I have also been thinking one thing that disables me from showing my wife the appropriate affection is our overall personalities - she's really abstract and I am super "not."

I know this is common based on the resources I've read. But I work in a Lab (hense Chemist) I love checklists. I like actionable things. I feel like if some of you successful marriages could maybe just point out some everyday things you do -maybe I could derieve a list. I want to love my wife properly - I want to learn things.

A list can also be made into habits...

Just thoughts

I am sorry if this post is getting off topic - I have been told by SMB and HPB that during this time of my wife's "defogging" I am supposed to work on myself and keep PLAN A priority one.

That is why I am posting questions about bettering myself as a husband! Let me know if I need to start a new post somewhere though.

The best guide, of course, is your wife, but my H found this article on affection very helpful:

meeting the need for affection

That is great advice! You should continue to post on this thread so people know your story.

This article is exactly the kind of material I was looking for! If anyone has other resources similar I would love to read them. That is a checklist that I can follow. I would like doing that as well.

Its not like I wanted to fail at marriage, but who teaches you about marriage?? No one.

So she is trickling money out of our joint savings AND I noticed this week that her weekly direct deposit from work did not cash in any of our joint accounts... I know I'm in Plan A, should I proceed with making my direct deposits into our joint accounts - like nothing changes?

She is still making bill payments - probably doesn't want to crush her credit. I think following her lead would be very "non-plan A" (draining our savings and stop my direct deposit)

What should I do here?

Additional information for the group. We bought a fixer uper as our first home. ONE PROBLEM - I kind of stopped fixing after a few months once the house was livable. Because I do not have a clue as to what i am doing. Since she has moved out I have proceeded with a lot of home repairs which is primarily where my money is going at the moment.

She has voiced that she hates the house and it is one of the reasons she is where she is now.

I have not spoke to her since just before her flight to see the OM last Wednesday...(another side note)

Plan A doesn't mean commit financial suicide. Move the money.

Don't let her ruin you financially. You need to take steps to protect yourself financially. If she has access to your money, she will likely wipe you out.

Also, put the last bank statement from before the affair and every other statement after in a safe deposit. Do the same for 401k and credit card records. You may need them in the future.

Melody - I noticed in Exposure 101 you have the aftermath section...

How long until that should take place? Do I wait for her to come to me? Do I actively go talk to her? Can I write the demands and my position on the marriage moving forward (guidelines, wanting it to work, program for recovery etc) in a letter and deliver it to her?

Its only been about 10 days since Exposure Day.

nonono, that doesn't apply to your situation because she has no interest in staying married at this point. All you should do at this point is be as pleasant as possible and occasionally tell her how much the affair hurts you.

Ah I see. Ok well I'm getting antsy... I feel like I'm not doing anything.

I just got off the phone with HerPapaBear - he said I should look into a thread on "reverse babble"

Anyone have anything like that handy? Otherwise when I get more time tonight I will maybe search through the notable posts or something.

I had an interaction with my wife tonight in person. Here is a summary:
After church, the pastor challenged us to take a card with things that we were going to change about ourselves in regards to the sermon (it wasn't marriage related) and give it to someone that would keep you accountable. I felt like my mother-in-law was a good candidate based on our history so I went over there and my wife was stopping by as well. I had some small talk about the card with her mom and she (wife) just kind of ignored me at first. I mentioned to her mother I was working around the house and my wife interjected at that point.
"Make sure you don't spend too much money. Just get it done cheap so we can sale it quick."
I replied with "All the money I spend is in plain sight on our joint account transactions."

She quickly went defensive saying "Well I haven't been moving money around!" (Which was weird for her to say and a blatant lie, probably to cover a lie up to her mom). She changed it the subject quickly to "its not like you are consulting me with any of these purchases."

*I have so far only bought electrical outlets and light fixtures (~$120).

I closed the conversation by leaving saying "I love you both, I did not come here to fight. Here's my card "mother-in-law", hope you two have a good evening."

The last thing I did was send my wife a text that only said "you looked cute tonight."

Good plan A? Any advice handling it differently next time?

"Reverse babble" is just silly and has nothing to do with Marriage Builders. It is a way of talking nonsense back at a WS, which does nothing to help Plan A and simply serves to inflame a delicate situation. A BS needs to be calm in the face of the nasty things a WS might spew. He does not need to mock her, and irritate her further.

Instead of worrying about "reverse babble" listen to these clips on Plan A.
Radio Clip on Plan A
Segment #2
Segment #3

Tell us what you think.

Sure - he did mention that it would be an interesting read not necessarily applicable. Those podcasts were great thank you.

Any one see any flaws in the interaction with my WS tonight?

I feel like I took steps back today in my attitude. I am back to depressed - even though my medications. I blame it on seeing her last night for the first time in a long time - and she was pretty sharp at me.

Her parents and I were very close, interacting almost everyday - and now we do not communicate at all.

I know all I can do is wait, but just am getting down today. Came on here to vent...

Sorry you are having a bad day, WC.

I listened to a podcast from.DR Harley and he said the death of a child needs to be handled extremely carefully... I really screwed up there. I turned inward and she needed to talk to someone and got personal about it with other people.

That is supposed to be a : / face

She was home over lunch - I saw her on our doggy camera. She made a lot of racket and it got me worried that the house was destroyed. But I listened just a little longer and she was playing with the dogs and was cheery. Said something about "I wish I could see you guys more" and "I miss you guys" (to the dogs).

I went home to confirm the house was not destroyed - and it wasn't. Almost nothing I could notice of her things were missing. I can't tell if maybe she was playing mind games with me. She has always turned off the doggy camera. Two things could have happened:
1) she actually forgot to turn it off
2) she wanted to make a bunch of racket and try to get in my head.

Either way - I am a little encouraged that nothing substantial was missing and most of all - nothing in the house was broken.

Last encouraging point.. She was not on the phone with OM. Now that doesn't mean they are done, but who knows maybe they aren't actually inseparable.

She made a deposit into out checking account today. It looked to be about half of her Coaching money she gets every two weeks. So at least she's putting money back in to our accounts.

I still feel pretty grim about the situation, but obviously today could be a lot worse. I am supposed to meet her dad tonight to talk about some basement projects that he started with me - so I'll probably update everyone on that conversation (remember me and him are not on excellent terms in his eyes).

Pretty good talk with her dad - but at the same time pretty crummy. He said I'm no longer welcome at his home because my wife said she will never come over if there is a chance I could show up unannounced. That hurt.

I did get a chance to defend the exposure to her boss. I said:
"Had it been a friend from college, high school or somewhere else then her boss would not have needed involved. But it was a person from her company. I had to tell her boss."

So that felt good to say. Time will tell and the dust needs to settle... I just wish I could go to bed and it be like June '16 already...

Waywards make all kinds of empty manipulative threats and her parents fall for it. Afterall...she appears to be abandoning you...so the logic goes that she'll abandon them too, if they don't toe the line.

People in this feel good, whatever makes you happy society have such trouble standing up to evil. However, her threat is illogical and completely wayward. She is already "lost" to them (and everyone) if she continues down this path so there is no point in appeasing her childish demands.

My wife actually just reminded me tonight that she said something similar to her mother and her mother just said "that's just a risk I'll have to take". Which is what your FIL coulda/shoulda replied to her. Unfortunately, his lack of fortitude is all too common and I understand it (doesn't mean he should need to apologize for it later on). I mean come on...his daughter is telling him and his wife who they can and can not invite into their home??? Who is the parent here???

I'd have you find ways to stop by anyway....even if it's just to take a picture and post it on facebook as though her parents aren't abiding by her request. It's not like FIL is going to tell her that he told you why you aren't welcome. Your wife HOPED he'd simply say "you aren't welcome" as though her parents were completely on her side versus telling you that you aren't welcome because she doesn't want to run into you. Not this week or the next but sometime down the road a picture posted somewhere giving a fairly good indication or implication that you were at their house might stir things up a little.

Also...even though you aren't welcome at their house....you could meet them out for a bite to eat (and snap a picture).

Also...this may all feel like you are pushing the affair couple together. Like it's them against the world. It's true. It's actually isolating them from everyone they hoped would support them and making the two of them rely solely on each other to get all their needs met. The relationship was never real anymore. It's was stolen secret moments. Now the relationship built upon a faulty foundation of lies and deceit has to be strong to continue on. Neither of these two have the coping and relationships skills to handle being strong when the going gets tough so the relationship disintegrates from the inside. Or not. We can't predict whether the fog will clear in time and you'll still be around with enough care then to bother trying to recover.

Godspeed.

I just do not understand my FIL's logic - but the person that understands it the least is my own dad. He said he'd have his "foot so far up my a** that I wouldn't be able to move unless it was towards fixing my marriage."

Anyways, with the holidays coming up what should I be prepared for? Is it better for her to be surrounded by her family (who I've exposed to) or to abandon them all together and be alone? A lot of people on my side of the family are going to find out that do not already know... I just think its going to be cluster of chaos.

Mr. Wondering - her dad is also convinced that she is going to move away to South Carolina - which could happen as you have explained. IT may actually be beneficial (they could disintegrate) - but it could also be the end (they could be for real). I have told myself to hang on for 1 to 2 years for her... so that is a timeline to keep myself sane.

I have not got any divorce papers yet... I set up a PO Box today to get all my mail before she does. I want my hands on the mail before she gets it. I felt like that was a safe way to eliminate some of the strangle hold she has on the situation also.

This is how I would react too. AGree very much with your dad. In fact, MrsW's [her husband, MrW, is posting to you] own mother was instrumental in running off her OM. Most caring parents don't sit by and do nothing while their child engages in destructive behavior.

Your FIL is being unwise, because if your marriage is saved, his daughter will remember his uncaring attitude when her fog wears off. And since he has alienated you by not supporting the marriage, he will be alienated from you both. He may come to rue the day he supported the affair and not the marriage.

Well - while I am mad at him now. He does not believe he is actually "supporting the affair." So hopefully when this all blows over and God willing the marriage is saved - he does not get alienated by my wife and I. I do believe he is honestly trying to end the affair, but he lacks the strength to pull the trigger - which to be honest, I needed to do as her husband anyways.

My hope is one day he looks back and just tells me, "WC I am sorry for how my wife and I behaved towards you, you are certainly the best man for our daughter."

One can only hope though.

I just need to find a niche or hobby to occupy my time - because, Like everyone has stated - this is going to be a long battle.

He has not been a supporter of your marriage, though. And he well knows this. Sitting by doing nothing essentially is supporting the affair at the expense of the marriage. His actions alienate him from your marriage. Parents who don't support the marriage tend to be a great source of pain and resentment once the affair is over. I hope he does come to see the destructiveness of his behavior.

I was explaining to SexyMammaBear earlier today that I thought after I exposed I was going to get some support - instead I felt like I lost support.

I can only hope people did not abandon the thought of talking to my wife. Or they were convinced that I am a lunatic and they all sided with her. I am just anxious about the holiday season... my birthday, thanksgiving, her birthday and Christmas all coming up. We have also always referred to Jan.1, 2009 as the date her and I became "official."

I just do not know how hard its going to be...My poor Mom said she got my wife's presents for her already, then this affair happened.

So today my Mom is getting blown up by friends on my side saying "Why is your son's wife's Facebook showing single" or "why did your son's wife take all her pictures with your son down"

I told her to have them all ask her themselves on Facebook. I told my Mom that she needs to be uncomfortable. Surely she won't block everyone?

I know its pretty standard wayward behavior - but if she wants to try to go on a power trip over Facebook (which she must have started using way more often then she used to), then I say let her deal with that can of worms herself. Like what did she expect? People weren't going to ask about me and just go along with it?

I have been telling people just to confront her outright - any other advice?

Been dealing with some real anger lately (SMB and HPB said that is healthy and normal). I am mad especially at my In-Laws. Don't they realize that if she can leave me and keep her family that is exactly what she wants?! She needs to lose her family and lose me OR gain me and gain her family...no in between. Obviously I am an angry at OM - I asked my brother if he can get me the HR contact for his company - which he said he does not exactly know how to get, but he'd look for me. I want to send something to HR about the OM, just in case he is not feeling any pressure at his work five states away...

Sorry I am all over this morning.

In-laws typically pay lip service to the marriage, but when push comes to shove, they throw you under the bus. My in-laws went so far as to apologize to me for their daughter's despicable behavior, but when they saw that the divorce was going to go through, they dropped me like a hot potato. Anyway, my point is don't let it make you resentful. This is typical. Don't expect their support and you won't be disappointed.

She has been deleting tons of posts apparently - which is making people call me more. Well at least this damage control is probably annoying her...

In light of recent events I just made my status on Facebook this (with the help of SMB)
I have been inundated with calls and texts today since my wife "wife" changed her FB marital status yesterday. There is no way I can respond to everyone's messages, and since "wife" as already put it out there on FB, I am posting here to explain. I want to assure everyone that we are still VERY MUCH MARRIED, but we need your prayers. "Wife" is involved in an extra-marital affair. I am very worried about her, considering the destructive choices she is currently making. This is the most painful experience of my life, but I know that we can overcome this once she ends her affair. I love my wife very much and am willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our marriage. I am hopeful that she will end her affair and re-commit to our vows as husband and wife. I appreciate your support for our marriage.

Been getting a lot of support messages. I think that should keep me ahead of her lies. She just kinda nuclear exposure'd herself I guess.

I love it! Great job.

Melody - you'll be happy to hear I finally tracked down corporate HR and told her about my WS and OM. That plus this Facebook thing is probably the conclusion of exposure phase... Now I really need to stay dark for awhile.

Good job!! Love your facebook exposure. Any luck on getting ahold of his parents?

Negative...

Go here and put in the OM's name and see if you find his parents: peoplefinder.com

Woke up this morning and there was a charge for a local divorce lawyer on our credit card.

Looks like she has got that train rolling. I am in desperate need of advice regarding the legality of the situation.

If I ignore the paperwork - is that a good thing or not?

Here is all I've found in OHio so far.

What are the grounds for divorce in Ohio?

Under Section 3105.01 of the Ohio Revised Code, the Court of Common Pleas may grant divorces for the following causes:

Either party had a husband or wife living at the time of the marriage from which the divorce is sought
Willful absence of the adverse party for one year
Adultery
Extreme cruelty
Fraudulent contract
Any gross neglect of duty
Habitual drunkenness
Imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal correctional institution at the time of filing the complaint
Procurement of a divorce outside of the State of Ohio, by husband or wife, by virtue of which the party who procured it is released from the obligations of the marriage, while those obligations remain binding upon the other party
On the application of either party, when husband and wife have, without interruption for one year, lived separate and apart without cohabitation
Incompatibility, unless denied by either party

So clearly she is going to try "Incompatibility" but all I have to do is not agree to it?

Can she divorce on grounds against herself? It may extremely easy for her to provide evidence that adultery has occurred.... Duh.

You need to consult an attorney. Like yesterday. Protect yourself. Let your attorney know that you do not want the divorce, but get legal advice immediately.

Nmwb77 I am working on it today.

I know WS behavior is hard to predict, but a lot of what I read was the talk of a divorce lawyer may just be talk... But now I know it is at least somewhat real. I can't necessarily afford to get a lawyer on a whim - but now I know its for real.

Have you talked to Dr. Harley? I encourage you to get in touch with him. Talking to Dr. Harley gave me the courage to do what I needed to do. In my case, Dr. Harley sensed that my ex felt guilty, and he told me to go along with the divorce. I'd say I got 2/3 of everything and she got 1/3, because she agreed to my terms (presumably out of a sense of guilt). The idea was that divorce did not mean we couldn't reconcile, but if we did divorce and I got 2/3, then when she came back at least we'd still have the 2/3, because she'll blow through everything she has while she's in the fog. In my case, I'm no longer interested in reconciliation, so I'm doing well. The divorce did not ruin me financially because I listened to Dr. Harley.

It might be kind of a dumb question - but where can I email / talk to him? I just assumed he is very busy and I would take my advice here.

To be honest, this divorce could not even "ruin me financially" because I just do not have that many assets. But I understand your reasoning.

I have a consultation scheduled with a lawyer tomorrow per your advice nmwb77.

WC, you can email Dr Harley at his radio show and he will answer your questions for free. Instructions are here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

He has been recommending exactly what nmwb77 just recommended, to go along with the divorce while the WS is in the affair, because you will get much more favorable terms.

That being said, he will suggest that you consider moving on because this is such a young marriage. You don't have any kids and not much of a history and sometimes it is better to cut your losses. Can you imagine going through this when you have 2 little kids? And I realize you don't want to do that but it is something to consider.

Good. It's not necessarily assets. Any time you have to go in front of a judge, plan on being there for six hours while you wait for the judge to get to your case. Multiply that by $250+ an hour, and you can see that the tab can run up very quickly. The easiest thing to do is have your lawyer draw up a proposal for splitting the assets. If she refuses it, ask for her proposal. You don't want to get into discovery and all that time consuming stuff (unless she's hiding assets).

The thing is, she will get the divorce if that's what she wants. You can't stop it. Ohio has no-fault divorce, so she'll file for divorce on no-fault grounds "or in the alternative" improper marital behavior or whatever. The judge will grant the divorce even if you object. You can drag it out with discovery and stalling tactics, but eventually she will get it.

Oh, and in my case, I said she should pay all court costs since she was the one who wanted the divorce. She agreed and paid all those costs as well (honestly, I have no idea how much that cost, probably a couple hundred). Since she filed, I didn't even have to go to court. So I saved the money for that too, because my lawyer did not need to go, either.

I was contemplating posting this to you but hesitated bc I see that you are passionate about saving your marriage, but there are some things I would like you to consider...

*Feelings CHANGE. Many betrayed spouses are desparate to save the marriage while the WS is in the throes of the affair. It is not until later that the anger, resentment and doubt creeps in. That is the NORM. You will not always feel so eager to save this marriage, even if your WW was to come back to you with open arms tomorrow - trust me.

*It is concerning when a person has an affair this early in the M. It's more understandable when a person starts to associate home and marriage with responsibility, kids, stress boredom after years of marriage - while a coworker starts to look fun, easy, stress free etc...an escape from reality. Your W most likely has some huge boundary issues - please understand this will be HARD WORK for her to change.

*Recovery itself HARD work. Divorcing at this point would probably be much less painful for you than recovery.

*Having a long marital history and kids works in both ways - it is motiviation for the WS to make the changes necessary (implement EPs, possibly change jobs, etc) to save the marriage and it is motivation for the BS to stick it out when the resentment kicks in. This is why Dr Harley often tells people in your position to cut their losses.

*You are still very young and quite honestly you seem like a great young man. The dating pool is huge for you at this point. The opportunity for you to meet a great young woman is really really good compared to someone in their 30s and 40s with children.

**Lastly, I see the issue with your in-laws as problematic. The fact that they are enablers is not good in several ways. First of all, that's going to keep your WW foggy. Secondly, that is going to be an awful lot of resentment for you to have to get over should you guys ever get to a point where recovery is possible. My in-laws threw me under the bus and had my ex done what needed in order to get me on board with working on recovery - I really don't know that I would have wanted anything to do with his parents ever again. To this day, I still feel hurt by their actions, maybe moreso than my ex as strange as that sounds.

This is probably going to be very tough to read. At the very least you can come back to read this if doubts about wanting to recover this (which they will) start to creep in.

WC,

You are doing great. I echo what the others have said about considering and being prepared for a divorce. Have you split your finances yet or does your WW still have access to your bank account? She is very dangerous right now.

Your FIL is probably a weak man who is out of his depth with regards to parenting in this situation. I am guessing he probably doesn't want to take a side or step on her toes. He has no idea what he is doing and he will end up losing both of you unless he gets a backbone. Not much you can do about that but I've seen this happen before up close and personal. Sorry you are dealing with it, I know from experience it is extremely frustrating.

Keep fighting this affair hard. The more decisive and prepared you are the more it will put the ball in your WW's court to decide, and that is a good thing because it will mean less waiting for you. The limbo is probably the hardest part of this whole process, IMO. I'm much happier now that I am OUT of it.

Good to see you are thinking of a timeline already for your Plan A. Stick to it. I am predicting your wife will probably talk a LOT about divorce and not lift a finger to make it happen. That's usually how it goes, so this could get drug out for a while. That's where the timeline helps.

Also, if you have a joint credit card with her (since she's already paid for a consult on one, I'm guessing it's joint), I would freeze/close that. Don't put yourself on the hook for any divorce-related expenses that she causes.

She is temporarily insane while she is wayward and she will not be frugal with your money.

I understand this sentiment completely.

Oh, you are missing out on a great opportunity - get into listening to the radio show, daily!

Wow. Certainly a lot to digest here from you guys. I have a free consultation with a lawyer tomorrow to evaluate my options. I don't care about what I get - if I got 100% of what we own I'd just sell it all anyways and start over... I want to stall and delay as long as possible. I know Ohio has no fault divorce but it takes a substantial time to finish with one party not in agreement. I am not divorcing her until I know without a doubt she is "unsaveable." And I won't know that until the affair ends, if it doesn't end in 1-2 years I will assume its "unsaveable"

Some other friends I have talked to have also said that the divorce process sometimes breaks the fog for a WS. The way divorce attornies handle it just overwhelms the WS with guilt.

Like I said, I am meeting a lawyer tomorrow. She has no grounds to divorce me on in a way that would conclude this quickly.

I was going to say a lot of people have reached out to support my marriage after the Facebook explosion yesterday - but a lot have people have said I should take it down or I "have no chance at saving this marriage."

WC, you do what you feel you need to do. I did Plan A for 1.5 years(including 6 mos. after divorce was final). I exposed the affair far and wide and did everything I could possibly do. I'm divorced, but I have no regrets, because I did everything. I've heard it said that you regret the things you didn't do more than the things you did. I believe it's true, so I went the whole nine yards.

If you feel you want to drag it out, then that's what you should do. It's just money. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. You can always make more money. Just weigh your options and protect yourself.

I never exposed. Admitting this, I saw so many marriages on MB restored by exposure.
If I were you, I would not listen to people telling you to take down the posts. That would be like stopping penicillin after taking it a few days just because you're feeling better. Let the medicine work!

A quick note about the "unsaveable" - that's kind of beside the point. The chances that affair will end and your WW will come back to you are actually pretty good.

However, the chances that she will really affair-proof your M (like I said, I am seeing some red flags, her enabling family being one of them) and that you will be able to withstand the hard work needed in recovery is an entirely different thing.

This is going to be a rollercoaster and you are going to get to the point where you feelings about your situation will change several times in one day. I would echo the advice to write to the radio show and talk to Dr Harley.

Hang in there.

If she comes back, and I have the training, plans and strategy and the advice from Dr. Harley and company I think I can restore this marriage. I think we can affair proof the marriage with proper guidelines etc.

If she came back four / five weeks ago after the affair was discovered - and I never knew this site - then yes I would agree destined to fail again.

I have always been someone who is extremely forgiving. IRONICALLY she has not been. This may be a hurdle to overcome where she finds it impossible to ever forgive herself.

I will write to Dr. harley sometime this evening when I can put together a well thought out email.

WC, one of the things you are going to learn around here is that in our western world we have two parallel cultures side by side.

One culture has good marriages. The other culture has exceedingly bad marriages.

Everybody has cultural viewpoints on how marriage should work. But on one side, their view points do not, in fact, work.

You're swimming in a sea of bad marriage culture. Your wife is obviously a part of it; we can tell by her lifestyle. This is also why so many of your friends are telling you stuff like this.

Your friends HPB and SMB - they are part of good marriage culture, and we try to hold up good marriage culture here and get people integrated into it.

60% of marriages will go through at least one affair.

40% of marriages end in divorce.
20% of marriages end in permanent lifelong separation. They are still legally married but they hate each other and live away from each other and die away from each other.
20% of marriages stay legally married but are miserable and hate each other.

Only 20% of marriages stay together and are happy. Only 20% of marriages are successful.

(For what it's worth, these statistics are no different inside of churches or outside of churches. Not sure if that matters to you but that fact is of great interest to many people. Churchgoers and ministers don't know any more about how to succeed at marriage than non-churchgoers and non-ministers.)

Only 20% of the people in our culture have a good marriage. 80% of people know only how to have a terrible marriage. They write scripts for TV shows and movies; they advise friends; they raise children. It propagates. Of the 20% who have successful marriages, many haven't spent a lot of time thinking about what makes it good, and if they say anything about it, it might be akin to the 101 year old who says he is so long lived because he smoked cigarettes every day.

Very very few people have successful marriages and know how to teach how to succeed at marriage.

I got all of the above statistics from Dr. Harley, who has been happily married to Joyce Harley for fifty years as of December 2012. And for several of those decades he has been teaching people how to survive affairs and how to have successful marriages.

There are a couple of reasons why this doesn't make sense - but I think at this point rather than me continuing this conversation with you, your best bet is to talk to Dr Harley.

We have had many WS's express extreme remorse and anger with themselves, etc (mine included) and continue marriage wrecking behavior. It's completely irrelevant to whether you can recover the marriage (and this works both ways, a WW can express zero remorse and end up completely on board with MB).

Great! Just want to add that you don't need to write a well thought out email. Just a run down of the stats and summary of where you are now will be enough. You can always follow up with them - they are great like that. I have been on the radio show many times and the time I called asking for help regarding separation was probably the most helpful/reassuring.

My attorney said that if I am smart about it I can postpone the divorce for a maximum of 1 year since she moved out (Oct. 5th?). She will try to file on some grounds but the only appropriate one is "Incompatible"' which I simply disagree to. He said her charge from earlier this week was more than likely a filing fee, so paperwork is on the way.

I just keep telling myself, 1 year is a long time for God to work. 1 year is a long time for her to defog and see the mistakes. 1 year is a long time for me to gather knowledge to make very specific guidelines to insure a successful marriage if we get to recovery. 1 year is a long time for me to change all my faults I had in this marriage up to now. And finally...

1 year is a lot of days of pain incoming.

But I am relentless, I will fight for my wife. I believe in what I (you all included!) have done to give my marriage a fighting chance.

I sent Dr. Bill & Joyce an email.

Let us know when you hear back.

I'm an attorney. A tax attorney but I know a little about this stuff too.

"Up to about a year" is a tricky proposition that can get expensive real quick. In order to delay the divorce you can't be seen as the one that is trying to delay it so you try to bog down the case with legal technicalities and lots and lots of discovery. You may get a judge that really move his/her docket along who is very resistant to common delay techniques....he/she will eventually see through your facade and you'll be faced with either settling and signing off on the divorce OR being punished (financially) by the judge. That could be daunting after spending a ton of money on your attorney delaying it much as you could already.

If cost is not the concern...you can run up lots of fees dragging this on and on and making it LOOK like she is the hostile party. Demand to sign medical releases (including any psychologist/counselor she's seen). She'll refuse and you'll file motions to try to get the judge to approve it.

My point is...there is a balance in there somewhere. You hire an attorney that appreciates you aren't delaying in an effort to punish your wife and to use the court system to extract your revenge. You simply hope time will give you a better chance at reconciliation so he/she (your attorney) should delay the case as much as possible while also trying to keep the proceedings civil and relatively cost effective. Your best delay weapons most likely are expensive weapons (motions and court hearings cost huge money)....so the longer those can be put off the better, then you try to settle them last minute and flip to some other delay method.

Finally - like my friend above...a bonus of delaying is often a favorable divorce agreement in situations where the wayward will basically pay anything to get it over with (and not have to stand in a courtroom as the despicable wayward adulterous wife). You can recover your marriage in the same about of time whether you are married or not - so at some point you probably can't be a fool and turn down a very favorable settlement agreement and risk delaying further and getting punished by some judge. In other words, if she's hardcore and won't roll over, you'll actually have an easier time delaying the case but once she waves the white flag...money spent thereafter trying to delay likely just isn't worth the return.

I was clear in my intentions to the attorney. He said if that was the case (I am trying to drag it out to give my marriage a chance to get reconciliation) he said he would be really affordable because he really is not doing too much legal work. His exact words were "About four hours of my time." (My guess ~$1000).

I will have to wait and see what the paperwork looks like. If she is asking for a dissolution, I will comically shrug it off. I will certainly keep in mind the favorable terms timing. I never thought about it from the perspective of recovering WHILE divorced... We could get remarried.

I just feel like staying married helps my cause... Because her name she signs everyday is mine, etc. All things that might remind her of what we had.

I don't know. Thanks for the thought provoking insight as always MrW.

I changed the locks on the house. I have renovations being done on the basement and don't want her to maliciously mess anything up.

Anyone here against changing the locks?

Not at all!

Ok - my dad said he'll support me in trying to restore my marriage...but he won't support me allowing my things accessible to a blinded psychopath.

Smart man!

Sorry but this is laughable. It has been my experience that divorce attorneys will tell you what you want to hear and then basically not follow through after you have given them a retainer. They LOVE to talk/email/conference to the other spouse's atty (for no good reason) and run up your bill.

I am on my THIRD atty and they all came high recommended to me, and they have all been pretty terrible (ML and Mr W can vouch for me).

A one year divorce with a nasty wayward can get VERY expensive. I DOUBT very much that it will cost 1k. Prepare yourself.

Great post.

Glad I made you laugh. I am sure if you have kids and assets a lawyer is important and expensive... If you need a lawyer to tell you when to sign and when not to sign in sure its cheaper. If he told me he was going to only need four hours and his rate is $250/HR... That's $1000.

All I need is a person to tell me when to sign stuff and when to ignore stuff. I am not pursuing assets... Because all I have is 1/30th of a house, 1/10th of two cars, and two dogs.

I only went to this lawyer to establish a line of communication. I'm not meeting him frequently. In fact I haven't and probably am not going to schedule another visit for awhile. He said to call when I get the paperwork and he will walk me through disagreement with the grounds she's filing on.

Huh? I did not say you made me laugh. I said it is laughable that dragging a divorce out for ONE YEAR with a nasty wayward will only cost 1k.


You are missing the point of my post (and Mr W's for that matter) - one of them being that divorce lawyers are SHADY and to proceed with caution regarding any estimate that he gave you.

I have also seen many people here on the forums without children and assets divorcing and it can and probably will get NASTY and costly. And you are talking about dragging it out a year.

Don't be so quick to dismiss our warning. I would have a backup plan in place for how you are going to afford this if it ends up costing you more like 3-5k (or more).

Thanks for the advice SuzieQ I will prepare and budget accordingly.

You have more assets than you think, i would guess.
Do you have a 401k, do you have a pension, social security, other tax write-offs, firearms, precious metals, stock options, a judgement in your favor, tax refund, upcoming bonus, inheritance clauses, beneficiary considerations?
On the opposite side, marital debt is also shared, credit cards, loans of all types, tax debt, fees.

The financial side of divorce can be as devastating as the emotional side. Make sure you consider this carefully and to your attorney.
Many people develop gambling habits and suddenly mysteriously lose a bunch at the craps table (wink, wink).

Its really funny you said that NebDane because I actually got talked into it by a friend to go to the casino when this first started and I lost some dollars.

Got my seperate bank account set up today and sent my HR rep my new routing information.

Just trying to remain patient in this all and stay calm... (Advice from HPB)

If anyone drops in the thread that is battling the same fight I am - a friend of mine just sent me this video, encouraging me to keep fighting for my wife.

Watch if you are interested... It gave me a little extra push today. Hope everyone is having a good day.

Sorry if that violates any rules about posting - I didn't think about it until just now.

So I just heard from my wife for the first time in a pretty long time via email. Unfortunately it was quite cold and very "business oriented."

So she was talking about our finances. She demanded that I pay for half of several things then also demanded that I find my own phone service as well as insurance on the vehicle I drive.

She cleaned out the savings account but luckily I have my own checking account so I have so money. She demanded I replenish the shared checking account with half of the requested bills before the automatic bill payments and send her scans of all the bills.

Anyone been through something like this before? I have not replied to the email yet.

I am trying to stay Plan A, but at the the same time I am tempted to say, " I am not renewing any insurance on this vehicle (which is in her name). It will be in this parking lot with the key in it uninsured when next bill comes."

A second thought I had is make her watch our dogs for some nights of the week, to pressure her living situation. The only fear I have is that she will harm them. I know they aren't kids, so not exactly any useful leverage.

Any advice is useful thanks guys!

I also wanted to say something like "I cannot pay these bills as well as the renovations we scheduled on the basement without our savings."

There is also ~$400 in the shared checking account should I just take that out for myself, similar to how she took the savings? Or is that "counter-PlanA" ?

I've been down this fun road. All of this is fairly normal from what I've seen here with wayward wives.

On her demands to pay things:

You need to sit down and look at your budget to figure out what is yours and what is hers. It sucks but until things improve you have to look at things as no longer joint, since she is fogged. What I would not do is send her ANY money and expect that she will put it towards something. She's fogged and will lie, cheat and otherwise try to destroy you since you just rained on her affair parade by exposing it. I would put not one red cent into your joint bank account until she has committed to the MB plan to recover your marriage.

Car insurance: Unless it will just break your bank, I would pay for car insurance (pay them DIRECTLY). Yes, you don't want to enable her but if she has a wreck without insurance you might lose the car outright and unless she brought this vehicle into the marriage it is marital property. In this case I'd protect this asset until a divorce settlement and if you recover your marriage it works itself out. Change your coverage levels or increase your deductibles if you must to afford it.

Health/life/renters/etc insurance: The same as above.

Rent/House payment: Don't get yourself kicked out of your home, pay this on your own and don't expect help from her. You can politely ask, but don't expect help. If you can't afford to do this, explain why and we can help you think of good options.

Credit cards/lines of credit/loans/other bills: Figure out who's head the responsibility falls on for payment. If it's her CC/loan/etc and not a joint account, let her worry about it. Pay what you are responsible for. Things like renovations to your house are discretionary and have to be put on hold for now given your marital situation. I'd put the brakes on anything like that rather than asking for money she has already taken from you.

Document (with something that would stand up in a court room, like a bank statement) what was removed from your savings account. If that was a joint bank account, you are entitled to 50% of that and it will be very relevant to a settlement or property division.

On scans for bills...what does she claim to need them for?

Dogs: Overthinking it here. The pressure on her living situation will come from the fact that she just made her life incredibly complicated by having an affair which was discovered and well exposed by her husband. She could probably care less about the dogs right now.

How much was her legal fee on your CC? It may have only been a consult fee. If she's asking you for copies of the bills and for financial aid, she didn't make many actual preparations to file for divorce.

You need to be very careful with how you respond to her. If my read on this is right, by cold in her emails you mean "ice cold" like you've never meant anything to her. Not the sort of thing anyone enjoys reading. It will be easy to lovebust her if you are not careful.

Plan A is exposing (which you have done) and offering/trying to meet the wayward spouse's emotional needs. Finances don't have much to do with it. Financially, your job right now is to protect your marital assets until you either recover your marriage or reach a divorce settlement. It doesn't really factor into Plan A.

In your reply, if you MUST discuss finances to do that job of protecting marital assets, then do it. Otherwise, I wouldn't, to be honest. Tell her you love her, miss her and want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with her, but that her affair is the most painful thing that has ever happened to you and that you cannot do that until she ends her affair and returns home.

Try to meet her emotional needs where possible and be thoughtful and kind to her (no lovebusters), but remember this is a self-imposed exile on her part that you have no obligation to support with money, copies of the bills, etc. The type of things she is asking for here are not the type of things anyone gets from anyone else via email impromptu like this. Would you expect to successfully get someone else to send you money and copies of their bills the way she is expecting that of you?

She's just trying to compartmentalize you by refusing to talk to you otherwise and hoping that she can threaten you into going along with this.

Do some serious budgeting on your end to make sure your ends meet, and batten down the hatches a bit here. You're probably going to have to wait for her life in affairland to flounder so badly that option WC doesn't look so bad after all. No telling how long that may take.

Also, I finalized a fairly quick (settlement before trial) divorce earlier this year. I had no house, no kids, only cars, guns, credit cards and my own retirement account to sort out. I still ended up spending $2500 to get the whole thing done. $1000 divorce would be a miracle, especially since your WW is already bent out of shape about money. Don't plan on it.

I believe its her way of reestablishing control, there is no way I am going through the effort of scanning the bills and emailing them to her. I doubt she actually needs them at all - just a power trip.


The fee was for $375. My attorney said that definitely looked like a filing fee, and that I should expect service papers in the mail soon. However, I do not know the rates of the attorney she went to... Maybe it was a consultation.


I am going to try to reply by Thursday. I will definitely add this to the email. I wanted to keep it short and maybe tack on there "I really enjoyed doing this together"

I am going to have to do some research as to how to cancel automatic payments she has in place. I may have to call the bank and just be honest with them - then call all my payees and let them know I will prefer paper bills moving forward. These are goals I have before Thursday's reply - even though that reply will have nothing to do with finances in it.

Maybe all of us can come together to draft an ideal response to her email? I will work on the finances, but maybe some of you "wordsmiths" can assist me in sending her something very "PlanA"

Thanks for the response axslinger, all very helpful considerations.

Hey all I have some news.

Joyce responded to my email and I will be a caller on the MB radio @ 12:50pm ET on Friday, 11/20. I appreciate you all for encouraging me to reach out to them.

This is typical wayward antics. But just be aware that if push comes to shove, she probably does have a right to copies of the bills. My ex/his atty threw hissy fit over wanting scans of every bills - and they weren't satisfied with the fact that I used the CamScanner app - they wanted real paper copies. They wouldn't let this one go. So I guess this goes back to where I was telling you that divorcing a wayward combined with slimy lawyers who don't care about wasting your money can become nasty fast...



I doubt that's a consultation fee. Sorry if this was covered but have you closed out that joint credit card? If not, you should and force her to get her own account. Also I think you should go along with separating all those things that she wants separated like the phone. That's all standard stuff that she has a right to ask for and if you resist it's just going to cost you more in legal $$ now that you both have lawyers.

Regarding the financials and other sticky discussions, I believe the standard MB advice is that you tell her the lawyers will handle the legal finacial talk in order to avoid any lovebusting and arguments.

Another regarding the bills, I signed up for ebilling on all those bills and on some you can log in on their site and download PDF's of your bills and just email them.

It's kind of a PITA to set up and get going but will be easier than making hard copies or scanning bills.

I agree with SusieQ that $375 isn't likely a consult fee. Too high. Get that CC cancelled or frozen fast because while $375 will cover a filing fee, it's nowhere close to a typical retainer for a divorce and her attorney may just be waiting for your response to the divorce petition to determine the cost of the retainer. Call the CC company and explain the situation.

On autopays coming out of your joint account that aren't for your stuff....you're on the right track. Call the bank, tell them what has happened. They don't want the payments to bounce either, they can block ACH withdrawals if they know who the payee is and you can figure that out looking at your bank statement. You don't want to deal with a bunch of overdraft fees.

You *can't* cancel payment methods on accounts for which she is the primary contact or cardholder/etc. You may even have trouble getting authorized to obtain information on the account, even as her husband. So switch over the stuff you can (yours or joint), cancel anything you can that is joint, and make sure the bank is advised not to process ACH payments towards her stuff.

And document everything.

SusieQ is right that your wife could technically legally argue her right to those documents she wants scanned, but this early on in the game, I doubt she will put forth the effort required. I think she is just trying to intimidate you.

Like I said, it's typical wayward divorce behavior. Not only have I been through this myself, I have seen scores of BS's go through it here on the forum. No point in trying to decipher it.

And sorry to say....expect more of it.

The problem is she is the primary on all of our bank joint accounts... Which I am running into trouble today. The bank is understanding but they are saying I can't do anything about the automatic payments.

Should I just email her back requesting her cancel all automatic payments?

I always thought I'd be the one who screwed up the marriage - so I made sure she was primary on everything... Mistakes were made.

Yes, email her requesting that but if she gets ugly and continues to be unreasonable, you may just have to work this out through the lawyers in a separation agreement

OK So its clear I need to respond to her email with some considerations about our finances.

How is this:

Thank you for the email regarding our finances. I have made arrangements to take care of the bills you are requesting I take on separately (phone, the car I am driving, etc.). Please cancel all automatic bill payments that use our Joint checking account, so I can request paper bills from those payees, or set up direct withdraws from my personal accounts. This includes: our mortgage, my car payment and my student loans. Additionally, basement renovations will be delayed (or cancelled) unless you can return some of our savings to help fund it.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair.

What do you think? Too sappy? Too aggressive?

I wouldn't offer to cooperate with her. Did you ask about removing yourself from this account since she is the primary?

I was considering doing that but I was afraid that in doing so I might inherently open myself up to "Negligence of Responsibilities."

My thought process was if that is how we pay the bills, and I take myself off them, am I neglecting our bills??

I could call the bank and ask to remove myself from the accounts If anyone thinks my thought process is incorrect.

She is trying to set in place the financial logistics of your divorce and I would not assist that process voluntarily. If she doesn't have $350 without hitting a credit card, I very much doubt she has the money to put teeth on any of the rest of what she's asking you for. I forgot she cleaned out your saving account already.

You don't really need to respond that you have got your own insurance or phone billing set up, she will figure that out on her own.

Can you not switch your mortgage/car payment/student loan to your personal account on your own?

Having been through this process I do not think there is enough at stake here for you to even worry about the consequences of removing yourself from the bank account, provided that you continue to keep important joint assets such as your house above water.

Your attorney (and her attorney) will probably not want to see this to trial since you have no kids and your marriage is too short for spousal support to factor in, because it's a lot more expense and work for everyone if it goes to trial. They will push you guys for a quick settlement.

BUT...that is just my $.02.

I cannot switch those three over because they are all set to automatic payments that she set up as the primary account holder. The bank is so frustrating - They are like "I am sorry that you are going through this lets see if we can help at all...........Oh nope, we can't, are you not talking to your wife anymore?"

Ugh.

So I am at a cross roads...

Honestly I don't have an answer for you about the accounts. Everyone does it differently. The way the bills were handled in my divorce was that we separated our bank accounts, I paid all the bills, provided him copies of them and he paid a percentage. You will have to ask your lawyer.

I'm going to restate my advice and also think it's great that you are talking to Dr Harley on Friday because you can ask him about this.

Because you are in a Plan A but also divorcing situation you have a balancing act to maintain. You want to protect yourself legally but you also don't want to lovebust her.

Again, anything that she asks you for that is reasonable in a divorce situation, I would not fight her on. Anything that she becomes unreasonable about or sticky, rather than standing your ground or fighting with her, tell her your lawyer is handling it. But don't compromise yourself financially regardless.

That's beside the point, because he intends to drag the divorce out for a year.

Axslinger I appreciate you trying to assist me here. Here is what I think I am going to do today.

Take the remaining money out of the joint checking account and put it in my personal account (~$300) That will zero that checking account out.

Send her this revised email Maybe not today, but later this week:

"Thank you for discussing your concerns with me about our finances. Please cancel all these automatic bill payments: mortgage, my car and my student loans so I can pay them from my personal accounts. Basement renovations will be delayed or cancelled if you do not return some of our savings.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair."

Then I am going to wait for her response - If she does in fact end the automatic payments. I am going to pay the mortgage in its entirety and take her half she is willing to put into the accounts and just transfer it to my accounts. Until she ends the automatic bill payments, I have to play by her rules. Which who wants to play by the rules of a lunatic?

Axslinger - I think the revised email is a little less "cooperative" as you advised in a earlier post.

So she got something to eat on our joint checking account - then instantly replenished it in excess of $10. Is she trying to look "good" to me?

I am still thinking of exactly how I want to word this email. I did not take the remaining money out of our joint checking.

Sorry I'm filling this up today.

So some of her coworkers (I think) just came to my house, knocked on my front door. I answered and they tossed a copy of the divorce papers in the door and ran off like cowards. There were four to six of them in the car that drove off.

Now I know that doesn't count as my "service" but I have a copy of the papers. I am sending them to my attorney tomorrow.

Pretty depressed now though. Those cowards are absorbing my wife into their world. All the work exposure in the world is not going to help at a company that so readily supports this behavior. I still love her so much, and my hatred for this company grows every second with every incredibly secular/worldly activity they perform.

I just want to save her from this darkness and save my wife. The affair has to end... She needs to get out of that company.

If your WW files a Proof of Service with the court, I would have your lawyer refute that you were not properly served. Most counties have online access to divorce filings. Look for the Superior Court of your county and look for a civil or family case online access link. You can search by name.

Papers thrown through a door should not count as service. You can always say you kicked them out and they maybe blew away in the wind. Papers are to be delivered directly into your hand or signed for. I wouldn't even give your lawyer the papers but tell him how they may have been thrown at you.

So maybe my email should just state:

"My attorney will communicate with your attorney regarding our financial obligations.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair. "

Some of the terms in her original email regarding our finances cannot happen according to the divorce papers - so I will take all your advice and just let my attorney handle it (for extra dollars obviously, like you all warned).

I will call my attorney today and explain what happened.

I think that looks fine and reasonable.

Probably overthinking it there.

It sounds like she's kind of gone dark on you, communication-wise. Have you tried to contact her much?

x2

It's not terribly expensive to pay for proper service of the papers. Not very smart to do it the way she did.

I should rexplain - they weren't thrown at me they were slid through the screen door right as I opened it. I didn't see their face because they turned away right away. No words were spoken until I said "Whats your name?"
"Its Name" *slammed car door shut with everyone and sped off.

Incredibly unprofessional...

Just talked to my attorney's secretary and she said that could have been my service depedning on what gets reported back to the court. So I guess I'll wait and see.

Did any of these people see you pick up the papers? If not then it's their word against yours that you picked them up. Leaving them at your doorstep is not sufficient for service. You have to accept the papers in some form.

I just want to point out that many BH's have the tendency to want to absolve their WW's of responsibility for their behavior.

While I agree that it would be best for your WW to leave that environment for your best chance of recovery, I do not agree that she is some kind of victim to some crazy group that are trying to absorb her into their lifestyle and that she is some mindless idiot that is going along with it.

People who have poor boundaries love to hang out with others who have poor boundaries. This is your WW's tendency - just because you get her out of that workplace if she doesn't work on her boundaries, she will just gravitate towards the same people at the next place she goes to. Ask me how I know.

They dropped it inside the door and I caught it. I looked at it and then yelled for their name. So yes, I guess they saw me receive the papers - and their was like four to six of them in the car.

My attorney is calling me in person later this afternoon I will inform you on what he says. After that meeting I will send this email to her:

My attorney will communicate with your attorney regarding our financial obligations. I think this avoids LB'ing her over the money

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair.This is the point of the email, so I can at least get some Plan A on her


I am also going to ask that my attorney "lifts" the restraining order that was in the divorce paperwork that states that the plaintiff(my wife) or defendant is not allowed in the household if she has been absent for at least 30 days. That way she can still come over if she desires. I think I saw in the paperwork that I can do that if I am OK with it.

SusieQ, my brother said something similar. I do sense that I am giving her an awful lot of credit. I do feel like a little bit at first it was not herself, she got tempted in. But she got tempted in because she lacked boundaries and discipline. The point I am trying to make is that these people she is surrounding herself in now are very much enabling the behavior.
When I met her, she was a devout Christian woman (cliche I know). She was extremely faithful through a long distance relationship and actually told me once that if I "ever looked at pornography, she would forget my name." That's how strongly she felt about adultery and faithfulness. Those words were all I needed to destroy any temptation I may face - even to this day.

SusieQ, I believe she went through some emotional trauma when we miscarried. She was questioning everything she has ever done with me. She may have resented God a little bit and strayed from her beliefs - heard something that sounded good and comforting from a coworker...then another... then one that really made her feel good. BOOM affair.

Susie, you could be right though - and time will tell. I could have just been strung along for a ride and she actually is this kind of person. I just can't let this last month and half of behavior define my wife and I's last 7-8 years of relationship.

Thanks for keeping that position Susie, I know it always looks like I am bad mouthing you but I do appreciate your stance looking out for a BH like myself.

We have had pastors, deacons and all other kinds of devout christians here who are in affairs or even multiiple affairs - that is completely irrelevant to whether someone is at risk to have an affair or not. In fact the type of people who think like that are the types of people who are more at risk.

I have known my WxH since I was in grade school. One of the things I always liked about him (we didn't start dating until later) was how kind and compassionate he was torwards others. Not only that, when we first started dating, he told me about someone close to him in his family that had had an affair and how much he hated that they did that and how WRONG he thought affairs were. Again, a person being "good" or "bad" is compeletely irrelevant to whether they will have an affair.

I wrongly attributed at least part of the reason that my WxH having an affair on a trauma that he had suffered shortly before he had the affair. His close friend since childhool (someone I knew very well also) killed himself. It set my WxH on a depression and he would play games for hours and hours as an escape. Then he became obsessed with making an advancement w/n his profession...boom he had his affair.

Again, WRONG - he went on to have another affair 4 years later.

The only type of person that I am suggesting that she is, friendly, chatty, charismatic, very social with members of the opposite sex as well as females. If there would be a group event with work people where spouses were excluded would she jump at the chance to join in, even if she didn't have to? When you look back, can you see it? I am certain that you can.

No worries. Just keep in mind that this is the NORM (a BH looking for a way to paint their WW as the victim). That kind of thinking will get you into trouble should you two ever attempt a recovery.

One more thing. To illustrate how well I get this - my WxH was a great father and a pretty good husband for TEN YEARS before he had his first affair. Once we recovered and were doing so well, it really rocked my world that he did it AGAIN - and the second time after I went into Plan B/D - his behavior shifted so dramatically, even in terms of his parenting....that I struggled to understand for a long time.

SMB and HPB were my IM's and they can vouch for me. Ask them.

If your WW doesn't either completely tighten up her boundaries (if she is the type of person that I think she is, this will be hard for her) or you keep her far away from a job where she can chat and engage with men, she will be at HIGH RISK.

Ironically, he is now baptized and pretty religious because his new wife is and still behaves very wayward while I am not very religious at all. It's a wayward issue - not a religious issue.

Meeting my attorney tomorrow - he said we can delay the process 6-9mos probably. Which is OK with me - its probably the best I can do. He also said he could probably get me half of that savings (probably because he knows its going right in her wallet).

I read that we can make a motion for counseling - but she can decline. Maybe we try that after the holidays while she is a little nostalgic... I don't know.

I am probably going to send that email this afternoon to her.

WC,
Listen carefully to SuzieQ.
She is giving you pearls of wisdom, that i wish someone would have given me. She is describing my ex-wife when she talks about her exH. It illustrates that these affairs are so predictable and follow almost an exact script, time and time again.

Poor boundaries attract poor boundaries. In hindsight, i saw the same thing with my ex and tried to apologize for her.
My ex started hanging around 5 women with poor boundaries and all complained about their husbands. Guess what, within 3 years, all were divorced due to affairs, they were branded the "toxic wives club". Your wife is hanging out with people who are actively supporting the affair and are against YOU.

Are you not listening? I believe you have been advised to stay away from marriage counseling or individual counseling for your wayward.

Both are a recipe for DISASTER. Plus it will be a LB at this point, so why hit the wasp nest with a court motion?

I was just thinking of ways to delay the process neb...

That will probably doom your marriage. Marriage counselors don't know how to save marriages and don't understand the dynamics of infidelity. As such, they tend to validate the marriage wrecking ideas of waywards, which will doom your marriage. MC's are little more than divorce facilitators.

So you would do something that would probably ruin any chance at recovery just to delay the divorce?

WC, you realize that your WW is no different than any other wayward, right?

This is a serious question.

OK guys. Lets try this. I want advice as to what I should do to give my wife time to "defog"

Please, I understand my WW is just like any other wayward. I am not and will not ever be OK with divorcing her. How do I give myself time to let her defog.

IF this marriage breaks down in the recovery stage that is what was meant to be. Please give me advice as to how to get to/survive until that stage.

If seeing MC's is a bad idea then I wont make a motion for it. I just saw a couple weeks in my head when I thought of that.

I appreciate you trying to protect me from pain, but I have a very high threshold for pain. I want my wife back, I want to try recovery. Earlier in a post someone said "The chances of your WW coming back are actually quite good." But they said the recovery is the hard part. I just want to get to that stage. I am trying to keep the divorce at bay until that stage.

I am sorry if it appears I am ignoring you. I really do appreciate you trying to protect me - I just want to focus on getting to recovery. Then attacking the recovery pains when I get there. Not assuming the pain will be to great in the future and ignoring the entire process ("cut your losses")

I committed to this woman, regardless of what she has done to me. If I don't wait it out until she "defogs" what kind of husband am I?

You can only Plan A at this point, but protecting yourself legally. With NO lovebusters, only deposits. You must be cool, calm, NO judgements ever. Find things to do together and invite her.
Make sure you SLEEP, EAT right, and EXERCISE as ways to cope with this TRAUMA.

Patience.
This will be the hardest thing you will ever attempt in your life, period. Repeat, this will be the hardest thing you will ever attempt in your life, and you may fail even if you are perfect and give 10,000%.
She won't defog if she is still in contact of any fashion. She is not at reconcile/recovery.

You are frankly stuck.

You can divorce and still wait it out until she defogs. A divorce does not have to mean that you are cutting your losses and giving up.

There is no point delaying the divorce if it means taking an action that is likely to make things worse - and marriage counselling WILL make things worse. You will be told to listen while your wife "communicates" her complaints to you, and then you will be encouraged to let her go. She will be encouraged to do what makes her feel happy, which means divorce.

I'm not saying that you should actively pursue a divorce, but that you should not choose a course of action that will make things worse. You've got to be smarter than that.

I would spend time reading and re-reading this site and all the articles. Educate yourself. Read through people's threads. While you quietly Plan A.

I don't get the sense that you understand that all waywards are alike and that your situation is no different than anyone else's.

It won't help your situation if you are in your own BH fog - not a bit. You would just be making a bad situation WORSE.

Thank you. It is clear that MC is a bad idea. I will let the attorney know that I was not thinking clearly about it. I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow at 5:30pm maybe we can come up with other strategies to get to that 6-9mos time frame.

Until then I will Plan A. I think I definitely need to "lift" the restraining order and give myself the opportunity to talk to her if she ventures over. I cannot Plan A her if she is not only actively ignoring me, but also legally not allowed to be at the house.

My best Plan A activity is likely to arise around holiday season. I am going to ask Dr. Bill & Joyce in my call on Friday what to do while she is out of the house (aka between exposure and Plan A). Email her little things? IDK.

I think its clear that sending her the email today is my best gesture for Plan A, while also taking some stress off my back about the finances.

Thank you guys for those posts, they were more encouraging... I am sorry if I always sound like I am arguing...

I will take some time to read additional threads and other resources on the site.

Some people never come out of the fog. No matter what you do, your wife may never come out of it!

I hate to be the devil's advocate but I will reiterate what some others said earlier, it's a young marriage with no kids. There's not a lot of 'glue' here.

It might behoove you to at least consider that your marriage is ending and that you're going to need to prepare to move on. Dragging out the divorce will be expensive and in her eyes, a huge love buster. She might need to get divorced to see what life is like without you. Once you are no longer the 'enemy' she might come to her senses. Maybe.

When you file a Response to the divorce or countefile you should cite adultery and name the OM. 1) it gives you leverage. 2) The affair is forever documented so it's even more unlikely for it to last. 3) It is the truth and something your WW needs own. 4) it gives you leverage.

Your attorney may tell you just go with irreconcilable differences but I strongly suggest you cite the adultery. People who don't usually regret it later.

Also don't spend a lot to time talking to our attorney for hours and hours. You will blow through your money quickly by doing so. Make sure you read how he bills. Typically, charges are made in 15 or 20 min minimum increments so when you HAVE to talk to him,use your full 15 min vs two min here and two min there. Those two 2 min increments would be 30 mins billable. Does that make sense? There is no need for him to make photo copies to give you when he can email you a document...stuff like that can add up.

I would still consider claiming you weren't served since you are looking to buy time. Did you check your county's online court records to see what has been filed?

He said I could refute that I was not properly served, but he said the court will recognize that as a proper service. I will look at how he bills and definitely cite the adultery. This will also clear up one thing - do I actually have the right OM? If an attorney contacts him for any type of testimony also, that would be enough to scare off even the stickiest of OMs I imagine.

That is great advice. I will address these things with the attorney tomorrow.

Hey all. Just sent her this email:


Mrs Wrestlerchemist,

My attorney will communicate with your attorney regarding our financial obligations.

I love you, and miss you. I want to build a romantic and passionate marriage with you. This affair has been the most painful experience of my life, and I simply cannot build that desired passionate marriage with you until you end the affair.

Thinking about you,
WrestlerChemist

I finally tracked down our Pastor last night (he also is the one that married us). We go to a big church and he was out of the country for the last few weeks so I finally got to talk to him in person. He was devastated, he has known my wife and her family for a very long time. He was completely on board with me telling everyone and even her company saying "Your marriage is far more important than her career." I asked him to talk to my FIL & MIL because they are in emotional turmoil second only to me. He said he would prepare himself in prayer before calling my wife today.

There was a charge on our credit card for gas in Indiana, where our Matron of Honor lives. It appears she went to talk to her, which is encouraging.

Looks like some of this exposure is catching up. Some friends have called me to tell me what I am doing is very "Christ Like" and it is making them evaluate themselves as a husband. I just keep telling them that I have a strategy and a group of people who deal with infidelity in marriages daily (that's you guys!) Yesterday was quite encouraging for me after about 4pm.

Today I meet with my attorney, so I may quickly get discouraged around that time. But maybe not.

Just updates guys. Thanks

I know how hard this is for you. My FWW's A lasted about 1-1/2 years with a full on FR. We are recovered now but it has been a very rocky road. It can happen for you too. However, it may not.

I know you feel completely out of control in this situation.

When I was where you are, I chose to put all the focus on myself. I would invite her from time to time to do things with me with NO pressure. My goal was to create 'mini points of time of enjoyment' between us which could add up over time.

I tried to make every interaction as enjoyable as possible with NO LB's.

Some of the questions you might really think about are:

What were her primary complaints about you? How can you change that?

How did you treat her when you were dating? What made her fall in love with you?

What were the things that made her fall out of love with you?

It is going to take time for this A to die..which it will. It is going to take time for her to fall out of love with him.

Right now, she sees no possible way to be in love with you. She does not think you will change. She might even think this is just a competition for you.

She might think that even if you do get back together, you could never forgive her and your M would never survive her A.


You have to convince her that the possibilities are real between you two..
I chose to not be a doormat. I chose to be strong and firm but loving at the same time.

You can only control you...Be strong and confident in yourself.

Thanks 20yearhistory for the encouragement. I will consider all those questions you mentioned... Maybe even write them down.

I am meeting with an attorney today in a few minutes. I took your guys' advice in being as prepared as possible. I printed off several relevant documents and hopefully we can be finished up fairly quickly today.

I will let you know how it goes - I will tell you I have heard from one friend already that my wife is telling people - "He cannot talk to you about this, its against his restraining order." (as people that I exposed to address her).

One of my friends was like "Umm do you want me to talk to my family lawyer to tell you that is an absolute lie"

HerPapaBear also chucked when I told him that, responding with "She thinks you have a restraining order from telling the truth to people?"

Anyways, par for the course for WW I suppose. I'll check in later guys!

Attorney said he is going to talk to her attorney and demand those automatic bill payments get cancelled. He said she will pay me the half she has agreed to via transfers to the joint account. He said "You are the one in the house so you should be in charge of those bills because you are the one the lights get turned off on."
He also said he is going to get my half of the savings back. He said we will take the max time to respond, then it will go to pretrial (which he said will be in mid- February). He said at that point he will suggest the martial reconciliation, which if she denies will still buy some time. Then a trial date will be set and that's as much time as he can buy me.

He said "I told you I'd do it for $1000 and that's what I'm charging you" when I inquired about his fees. So I paid him today on the joint credit card (Which I was worried because its joint and that was in my restraining order, but he would have said something I imagine.)

I asked if I should cite adultery and he explained that it would make the cost go up because you have to prove it and that takes legal work. Also, it would not help my counter actions. (It would be like I am actually asking for divorce at that point.)

I told him I want to lift the restraining order on my wife about her being able to visit the home. He said that is very doable. Once she has been served obviously

He said he is very understanding of what I am trying to accomplish. He was recommended to me by SexyMamaBear.

I will say my talk with him eased a lot of the stresses I did not understand about the legal battle. Now all I have to do is be patient and Plan A perfectly when given the opportunity and make myself very attractive to her, while she slowly loses her "fog" and LB's the OM.

WC,

Great job in reaching out to this Pastor, but I would follow up and see if he actually contacts her. A lot of clergy these days don't like to do the right thing if it means making enemies and will avoid conflict in situations like this. Just speaking from experience. If he actually contacts her, I think it is equally important that he contacts her family. He may be able to help them find a clue as to how help their daughter.

It is VERY encouraging that he supports accountability...in my own situation and others I read about on here there are unfortunately a lot of clergy out there who don't seem to understand the concept as it applies to adultery.

Your lawyer is interesting. I consulted 4 different attorneys in my situation (trying to AVOID filing for divorce) and none of them were as pro-marriage as your guy sounds. I think that is a positive for you.

The legal worries hanging over your head are very difficult to deal with. Make sure you are taking care of yourself. Men in your situation benefit greatly from studying MB literature (Love Busters is a great place to start) and physical conditioning. There's a LOT to learn out there about how to recognize and eliminate one's own marriage-harming habits. The conditioning will help reinforce the idea that you are making positive changes in YOURSELF no matter what your wife decides to do here. At the end of the day, that is all you can control.

I'd recommend body building/weight lifting, but some guys like distance running or other types of training. The important thing is focusing on making positive changes. That is how you will stay encouraged about becoming more attractive to your wife.

I am volunteering at the church tomorrow night to pack thanksgiving baskets for needy families in the area. When we spoke he had mentioned he would "likely see me there." I will go out of my way to ask him if he got a hold of her and if he spoke at all to my FIL and MIL. I would prefer asking him in person if maybe he could facilitate a conversation between himself, FIL, MIL and myself all together. My pastor calls using a private number, so its possible she ignored him. I will have more details on my pastor's actions since involvement tomorrow night.

She has been telling some of my friends that I am violating my temporary restraining orders by talking about the affair, which is humorous because the affair has not even been legally established. Just WW babble/lies attempting to silence me so "affair land" stays safe.

Tomorrow is my call in with Dr. Bill & Joyce at 12:50 eastern time. I was reading through the "wifedivorcing" thread in MelodyLane's signature and got some good insights on Plan A. I just feel helpless because she is not living with me or communicating with me at all. That is where patience comes into play I suppose... affair dies first, then reconciliation is possible. But until then, sit and wait.

Do you think she might be willing to think about going and doing something with you that you both always enjoyed doing together?


Any time that you can find to go out and spend a little time together would be awesome. Just relaxing without any relationship talk..and no pressure.

Somehow she needs to see the side of you that she fell in love with. How can you find a way to spend a little time with her...stressing that you don't want to talk about anything serious.

I would think about backing off the pressure at this point. You have done an amazing job so far of putting the A out in the open.

This is one reason I wanted to ask my pastor if we could maybe get her parents and us two (pastor, FIL, MIL and me) together for a conversation. If my in laws were a little more on the side of what I am doing - my wife and her family LOVES PLAYING CARDS.

Every time we went over to my in laws we played cards. Maybe one night in the future, if her family was on board we could play some cards.

I have also tried to invite her to take our two dogs to the park. But she has always very quickly declined (that was pre-exposure by the way). Maybe sometime in the future we can do that.


God is definitely testing my endurance. The above comment about the card playing will be a future goal. But you are right, I just need to back off a bit, let her self destruct. It is just so dang hard waiting... I know everyone of you guys knows that already.

My birthday is next week, and hers the week after that. Should I get her a card? I have no idea where she is staying so I don't know how I would get it to her... maybe put it in her parents mailbox?

You've been through a lot. Don't be too hard on yourself trying to think of a way to Plan A her - the meeting ENs part of Plan A....it's really tough to make any headway while she is still actively in her A.

If a spot opens up where she would be open to LB$ deposits, you will probably know it (because she will probably reach out to you).

Try to relax and I am certain you will feel better after you talk to Dr Harley.

Thanks SusieQ.

I think I am almost to the point were I can really start focusing on myself. Like I am at a point were the pain is tolerable - not paralyzing. Clearly up the legal technicalities really helped...

The only thing I still need to conquer is this thought I have been having (not to beat the dead horse, I am sure you have heard it all before):

"I am waiting for the chance to reconcile...Not waiting for reconciliation"

Just a thought that gets me nervous again, but I just have got in the habit of quickly asking God to ease my spirit and keep moving forward. I believe in what I (we) have done.

Thanks for the posts today guys, I will tune in tomorrow after I talk on MB radio & meet with my pastor.

Are you on ADs?

Someone else mentioned it but I'll re-emphasie that self-care, especially exercise is really helpful.

I am on some Anti depressants & anti anxiety medicine... I just asked for larger dosages this week. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not so much.

Just started a 30 day conditioning/body weight exercise regiment last night - its kind of written to be a monthly routine.

If you could get her to do something..anything...for the 2 of you to just hang out without your pastor, FIL, MIL etc..it would be ideal. If you get all those folks involved she might think she is going to get ambushed. Alone is the key. Not with others.

I invited my WW (WW at the time)to just do whatever. Things super low pressure without any relationship talk. Like go grab a bite to eat, run some errands...whatever. I would ask and say 'it would be cool if you want to jump in but no pressure'. Sometimes she would say no, sometimes she would say yes.

The point is, you have to find a way to be able to spend a little time together where you can look great, be confident in yourself and have NO expectations of her. Have a smile on your face at all times so she knows that you have positive energy! No negativity. No pressure.

You have to play it cool and back off right now. Worked for me. Don't give her any ammo to make you the villain in her life. She already thinks you are the cause of her pain.

Be the positive force.

When do you guys think I should approach her again? A week? Two weeks ?(her birthday is in two weeks).

it is tricky on timing, maybe every few days, maybe once a week.
You kind of need to read her a little bit, without pressuring or too often, yet not too spaced apart.

Like, hey i am going to the store to look for christmas decorations, wanna come?
or want to go get a hot chocolate/coffee?
what would you do if you were trying to date her?

I invite my wife to spend enjoyable time with me every day, and I intend to do so every day for the rest of my life.

Thanks guys for the pointers. I will definitely pray to recognize good opportunities vs. times to back off.

FYI my talk with Dr. Bill & Joyce Harley went well, it is rebroadcasting today. Very encouraging talk (just like you all said it would be).

He did misunderstand me in one instance - we have been living together for 3 years total (1 year before marriage + 2 years of marriage). Not five total years.

They are awesome people.

Dr. Harley emphasized again making the OM uncomfortable and essentially getting him to feel like a relationship with your wife isn't worth the hassle.

That being said - What have you been able to do so far on OM's side? I recalled you emailed and/or spoke to his brother. Any luck with his parents and friends?


This is going to be cryptic and I hope he is still reading - "J" please email me, I need your help.

Tracked down his address and work email last night at work. Dr. Harley also mentioned that I cannot dish out any more negative - that being said SMB has reached out to me and we are working to track down more information about him.

I saw a post on here once called something like "what you get for leaving your marriage for an affair". Maybe I can get a friend to email the OM that post.

I will need to get my computer back to really research this guy. I gave my computer to my brother, because video games were a big turn off for my wife. So while I was trying to change myself I got rid of that temptation.

Definitely agree with Dr. harley and you Mr.W. I need to lay down the pressure on OM but I need help doing it so I am not the " bad guy"

Do not give your enemies your playbook.

In other words, do not let your wayward or OM or enemies of the marriage you are using Marriage Builders forum.

You do understand he did not mean it was "negative" to expose the OM or confront him, right? He told you to investigate his background and one of the main purposes is to expose to his parents, family and friends and run him off.


The OM won't care. He is just using your wife so this won't matter to him.


Absolutely, but that intel needs to be used strategically against the OM.


I would focus on doing the right and necessary thing and not worry about garnering approval from adulterers and their enablers. Your goal is to save your marriage, not to gain approval from others. None of those people will be paying the price for a failure on your part to do everything in your power to bust up this affair. It is real easy for outsiders to judge you when it is not their ox getting gored. They are not in the fight for their marriage. I assure you they are not the ones who will pay the price for a weak exposure. YOU WILL.

I think my exposure has been exceptional, especially on my wifes side of things.

I guess I misunderstood Dr. Harley - I thought if I approached the OM again, and he goes to my wife and complains now I am the bad guy again. If some of my friends I've exposed to scare off the OM, then its a different story.

I will never let her or OM know I'm on marriage builders until its recovery time.

Thumbed through our marriage pictures again tonight... She is so beautiful.

And I agree but it is not complete. The only big miss here is the OM's parents, family and friends. And that is a huge miss.


I don't necessarily mean you confront him at this point, but you do need to expose him to his parents, family and friends. That is a pretty deadly exposure because if his parents know she is a married woman, it is doubtful she will be welcomed in their home. That will wreck her future plans.

Dr Harley told you to apply pressure to the OM. No one cares if the OM complains about you. He should complain about you if you are doing a good job of applying pressure to the affair. That is not a negative thing.


The OM should NEVER know anything about Marriage Builders. This is your personal source of guidance.

]
You do realize how irrational that sounds, right? To be concerned that the affairees would think you are the "bad guy" is foggy thinking. Don't worry about that! She will naturally think you are the bad guy no matter what you do.

Ok well I got some huge helpers going in to help me uncover the OMs weaknesses. I just don't know how to look - but they do.

Melody - thanks for being with me through all this. I am glad you deciphered Dr. Harleys advice here for me so I understood it a little better.

Bravo!!


You are very welcome! I am glad to help someone who is smart, strategic and proactive.

When its the most important thing in your life , you'd do anything right?

While I'm working on the OM exposure - I just simply am at a lose still as to how to attract my wife back... I started writing every good memory I can think of about her down. I might refine it into a nice letter and give it to her on Thanksgiving?

Also, my I missed my Pastor the other night. But I am trying to arrange an in person meeting with him. If he does reach out to her it may help a little.

I feel like I am fighting a better fight now - two fronts. Finally getting some work done on OM while keeping people in motion on my wifes side.

I'm back to crying tonight. Nobody responding to any text messages I sent out today. I feel blatantly ignored tonight. I couldn't find anything to do in time before completely collapsing in pain...
I just feel so in the dark. What if my wife is out having a blast? What if she has not given me a single thought in days? Weeks? What if everyone that knows about our situation is "OK" just letting my marriage burn?
Thanksgiving is coming up and I have no plan as to how to approach my wife again. I don't know where she is living. I don't even know if she is still actively in the affair. All I know is I am alone and miss her deeply.
Back to rock bottom tonight - sorry guys...

WC, so sorry you are in such pain tonight.

A lot of us have been there and know how badly this sucks. sometimes it's just focusing on getting through the day. Hang in there - you're gonna be ok.

Hey man I know the feeling, as much as I live my WW she does not to have anything to do with me.
Even when she prays with the kids she prays for the family but me.

She acts like she is single and I don't exist, unless she needs me for something.

I still love her and miss her, and writing this makes me want to cry.

So so much pain it's just not fair you know, I really wish it was a bad dream.

I started writing down every good thing we've done together. I was thinking about giving it to her for thanksgiving. Title it like "100reasons I am thankful for " wifes name""

Only problem is I don't know where she lives...

The hard reality is that your old Marriage is over. Only a new relationship with her is possible at this point.

When I was in plan A, I focused on trying to date my wife as if we had just met.

Writing down all the good things in your M and focusing on the past is only going to cause you more pain. By identifying the problems your M faced prior to this and changing is a good thing. Dwelling on the past isn't going to help you.

Focusing on what you have control over is empowering. You are in control of yourself. You are in control over the choices you make today and tomorrow.

Can you find a way to date her and woo her back??

My Wayward Wife only got ticked off when I had ANY reminders of all the great memories in our past together.

She replied, "That was then, this is now" and "I just don't have feelings like that for you anymore."

It's a losing cause when they are intheir Affair Fog. NOTHING from the past revives ANY good memories, NOTHING!!!

You will just windvup wasting your time and torturing yourself.

Save yourself the trouble and just do Whatever Plan A activities that you can sneek in, but you can be mopey and depressed when ever she sees you, otherwise none of the Plan A stuff will matter. She will just focus on how Your depressed attitudes is trying to make HER feel bad.

Remember. It's ALL about her and Only her right now. Your feelings don't matter at all.

LTL

Ok so maybe I give her a different type letter - primarily focusing on things I've changed?

Any advice? I want to give her something via letter or email by Thanksgiving. One thought I had was write he a "week of our recovered marriage" outlining a day by day of how I see our recovered marriage going. One thing I thought was Friday night every week, we turn on our First Dance song and do our first dance... Things like that...

My Pastor scheduled me in for Tuesday next week (12/1) - he was very busy so I am glad he put me into his schedule.

Still thinking about when I should reapproach the OM also. I found his work email - I wanted to send him something if you guys have any templates for that. I know there is one in SAA but it was for starting PlanB I think.

Lots of thoughts this morning.

NOPE.

No letter at all.

SHOW the changes, not tell her about them.

IF she cares, she will notice, otherwise she is too far gone.

Sorry, but there really isn't much you an do.

Make the positive changes anyways though, but For YOU. Then they will Still make you a better person.

LTL

THERE IS NO MAGIC LETTER, PHRASE OD ANYTHING ELSE!

Quit looking for a quick term miracle. Just keep on making yourself a better person.

Use ANYTHING that she has ever complained about that had legitimacy PRIOR to her affair and workbook those things and KEEP ON working on those things daily, for the rest of your life.

Use ANY attempt once or twice a week to try to invite her to do something fun that she would like and NEVER be disappointed when she declines for a hundred times in a row.

Think of FUN dating ideas that she will have a hard time resisting, but stuff WITHOUT romantic implications at this juncture in time.

LTL

I meant a template for a letter to the OM. I was pretty sure I saw something like that. Did not know if that was a resource that any of you have access to. I mean, I get I need to tell him that I love my wife and I am willing to wait for her. But that is only one sentence!

If I am wrong, I can always go talk to SMB & HPB in person and see if they have any advice for an email of that nature towards the OM.

We are still working on finding more out about the OM.

I was advised to CONFRONT the OM, not to write him a letter, and I don't know why the advice to you would be any different.

I doubt the OM will care about your letter, he will probably laugh it off. This guy is a piece of crap and if you want to run him off, I think you need to show him you mean business. The last thing in the world he expects is you showing up and getting in his face somewhere.

Maybe the prerogative of the MB community has changed on this in the last year, I am surprised nobody has suggested that yet...

I couldn't stomach writing him a letter, especially in retrospect. I wouldn't do it simply for your own self respect, if for no other reason. This man does not deserve any courtesy from you, he has disrespected you in the highest way possible. Confronting OM in my situation was the best thing I did and something I will never regret. I couldn't save my marriage in the end, but I sure as hell stood my ground.

Exactly.

If you want to fight for your M...then fight for it! No letter is going to have any impact on him. He already knows exactly what he is doing.

As stated earlier, a letter to you WW will most likely have no effect. I did send my FWW a couple of emails letting her know how sorry I was for my mistakes and that I had changed (taking full accountability for my past choices).

I made it clear that I changed for myself but did commit to a happy future together if we got back together.

Reading LB's was a huge eye opener for me.

After that, it was me focusing solely on myself and my kids while trying to date her.

If you see her, you have to be strong and confident in yourself with a huge smile on your face. No groveling, crying, begging or signs of weakness.

Part of her most likely believes that there is no way your M could ever survive after what she did. She doesn't think it is possible for her to love you again.

You have to show her by your actions that love can be restored.

This is the portion that I was responding to you about. No letter, without substantial visibly noticed changes in your actual actions and/or behaviors that she Formerly used to complain about Prior to her affair will have any impact on her foggy thinking.

LTL

I will have to think about this. I want to confront him - but he lives many states away. So maybe call his work phone #, like a client or something. I don't know. I have time to think about it.

Whatever I do, it will be a phone call more than likely.

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of WrestlerChemist's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Melody you around?

Can you PM me? I have some exposure letters primed for the OMs family I want to run past you.

If you want. I got some good advice already on them - I just was wondering if you'd weigh in on them.

Hi WC! The PMs don't work here. Why not just post them here? Did SMB or PB look at them?

I have talked to SMB and PB - I did not want to post them because they are a little too specific then I am comfortable with posting on here, even heavily edited.

WC, are you online?

Yes I am at the BMV - I'll be back on in a few minutes

I am trying to go nuclear on the OM's family and friends today. I feel like he has had little to no pressure yet from exposure. But I finally got my ducks in a row, I wish I could have inundated him the same time as my wife but its not a perfect world.

Nice touch that its right before turkey day, so if I miss anyone they will be gossiped to around the dinner table.

Its my last real push to completely destroy this affair... I hope it ends up being enough. Time will tell I guess.

Good for you. Do It.

LTL

I think you will get something out of it. Not only will cause conflict for the OM but it will RUIN any hopes your wife had of integrating into his family. She won't be able to show her face in most circles in his family.

The "story" of a wayward usually goes something like this:

"oh, my marriage with WC didn't work out and he is divorcing me. The relationship just became terribly abusive and I couldn't handle his angry tirades anymore. I think it is for the best since we are so incompatible."

Then to the OM's family the story would be something like she is divorcing her abusive husband after many years. They have been separated for some time and are just waiting for the divorce to become final.

Your exposure to the OM's family will ruin the story and impair her ability to integrate with his family. She will be too embarrassed to show her face.

Just looking at the list I have - I have the dad, 4 aunts, about 10 cousins, 1 coworker (who also knows my wife), 3-4 friends and 7-10 unknown relationship to OM (but have the last name).

I am handwriting the OM's parents because the Dad's FB looked extremely dated, and the mother does not have one.

Way I see it, about 20 people exposed right before Thanksgiving.

I heard from an unreliable source that my wife said "My husband and I are going out of town this weekend" So... She is once again getting exposure right as she gets on an airplane if that's the case - and she will have a fun thanksgiving with the OM's family I am sure.

Man wouldn't it be nice if I got a phone call on Friday from her saying "Please come pick me up in *City, State* because OM did not pick me up at the airport."

I know I am being crazy BUT if that did happen, what would I do? Go get her? Leave her there for a few days? Make her find a way home?

Just wishful thinking but hey... This guy is a douche.

Hey Melody - SMB, HPB and myself just sent a ton of exposure messages out but on some we were not asked for a $1 (like there was no option at all). We confirmed that they get sent as a "Message Request" and the other person is notified - but has to accept it...

Ever run into anything like this? We used a computer not a phone.

I am always on my computer when using Facebook and have sent many, many messages to family, friends, former co-workers, etc. I have never been asked to pay $1.00. My messages have been received because they do respond.

You're doing a great job, WC!!!

It looks like they have a new policy because I just tested it out myself. If the person is not your friend, they send the "message request" which is awesome because the person can see it right away!

Bravo to you and SMB and HPB for the cool exposure! Great timing!

If she calls, go get her. Do what you can to make Love Bank deposits.

Got this email this morning thought you'd like to head it -

Dude, get your [censored] together. Sending me an email about something like that has psycho written all over it. Stand up and be a man about it all for god sakes.

And please refrain from contacting me anymore about your drama

Sounds like a delightful person! The nice thing about it is he will contact the OM, putting him on the defensive. OM will be 'splaining himself all day to folks!

That coworker is knows my wife also. So its possible they already got to him.

I can only confirm two people have read the messages but its early.

As HPB would tell me right now - "Relax"

A bonus is that she disconnected my phone line - so I won't have any phone until tomorrow...

That presents another problem for them. If they deny, deny, deny, then when they come out in the open in the future, everyone will know it was true. So they can deny all they want, but they will have to always deny it or everyone will know the truth!

A statement like that makes me wonder - precisely what does this person think "stand up and be a man" means? Sounds more like what they are saying is "roll over and be a coward".

Beats me. But its the same as I have gotten from most of this company's employees.

I hope atleast 20% of the messages I sent get read today... That would still be a substantial amount.

Accountability is a very old school sort of thing, many people do not get it. I got a lot of responses like this from WXW's family and family's friends early on. Enablers do not like accountability and that's who you're dealing with here.

Keep pushing on, the type of people who can be allies to your marriage and apply the right kind of pressure to your wife/OM will get this and know what to do. There's still plenty of old-school kind of people out there.

I have to send the OMs parents via snail mail but I'm writing those letters tonight and the should get there monday - Tuesday... Its the best I can get to them.

WC,

You're doing a great job. Don't let those negative responses to your emails bother you. Some people have to actually experience infidelity themselves before they can appreciate the devastating repercussions.

Try to have a nice holiday. There are better days ahead!!

I was telling SMB I wish I got like 15 more of those emails... I don't even care about the negativity. too be honest - I want to come across as a psycho.

So I hope he says that to his buddy POSOM at work next time they see each other.

I just don't know what to do.

I am just sitting here at the house missing her again. I feel like a psychopath... Thinking about her and all the things I love about her.

I don't have anyone to talk to because she disconnected my phone. And I can't get it turned back on because she won't release the number off her account... Ugh.

I am so tired - like physically I want to just sleep. But that's not attractive to her...

Sometimes I just only feel like I have this thread. And you guys literally are saving my life. At least once already...

Can you afford a pay as you go phone until you get the phone figured out?

What a moo.

If you have internet at home, you can use your computer to make voice calls over Skype. I prefer (and use) a VoIP service that hangs off your route and cost less than $10 a month for an all you can eat. They give you a local number, you can use a fixed line phone with them and you get free voicemail and caller ID. Should be able to set yourself up with something almost instantly.

It might be an adernaline crash due to your exposure yesterday. I experienced this after very stressful events like court dates - I would have absolutely no energy the next day. It's ok to let yourself relax.

It's important to remind yourself that your W is WW, she is not the woman you married. She needs to give permission to allow the phones to be separated. That's just not going to work and you can't roll over when she bullies you like that. Have you asked your atty? I am sure a call to her atty should solve this pretty quickly. You can't not have your phone at these times when you need support from your family and friends.

Can you send her an email telling her that if she won't separate the lines that she will be responsible for your old line and that you are opening a new account?

I should have called my atty. Ill send him an email now but he probably is put of the office until Monday. That's a good idea thanks SuzieQ. I need to keep my number because its the one I put on the footer of all my exposure messages etc.

I wish I knew more about her world but I guess I am just going to have to live with that darkness.

All I can do is assume that statistically affairs end up dead and she will eventually be miserable... She may already be miserable and too stubborn to admit it. She may be having a good ol time and my Exposure did nothing...

Another thing that's got me rattled is now I'm starting to have some sexual frustrations... That's new to this whole experience...

Thoughts ugh...

I am going to send her this email -

*wife*,

Please tell Verizon that you allow me to assume liability of my phone number so I can set up my own account with this number.

I love you and am still waiting for the opportunity to build a passionate marriage with you.

If Michigan beats Ohio State today - this will officially be the worst year of my life...

Got to have a sense of humor right?

Well at least OSU is winning at half time.

Well hopefully the stellar win today is a good omen of things to come! Go Bucks! O-
H!

First birthday in 8 years without my wife /:

My brother took me to a Bengals game and all I could think about was her... Ugh. I know its typical BH stuff. I just miss the companionship of her. Just knowing she's in the other room, or being able to text her... Its going to be a long holiday season.

Her birthday is Saturday.

SO I finally am meeting our pastor in person tomorrow morning. Anything specifically you guys think I should address?

As of now I just was going to tell him whats going on - my wife is engaged in an affair, shes trying to divorce me, I still love her and want the marriage to work, I have exposed to her friends, family and workplace and I have lost the support of the ILs (who he knows personally/next door neighbors). I was going to end our conversation by asking him if they need any volunteers in any areas specifically so I can get more involved in our church. He said he wanted to get her contact information to so he could try to reach out to her if given the opportunity.


The OM's mother should be receiving my hand written letter today. Hopefully she turns out to be an asset not a liability. Also, this morning the rest of his coworkers I exposed to (about 4 more of them) should be receiving/reading their emails. I got an email to the VP of Human Relations and she sent me back a pretty non threatening "I'll look into the issue you presented" email, but at least she saw it.

Sorry if I seem like I am on here constantly - I just do not have any people that really understand that I can talk to.

And I got my phone turned on

My pastor was very interested in Marriage Builders, looked into Surviving an Affair and reached out to my ex, but some do not even attempt to understand it. Hopefully you can explain to your pastor that exposure has been proven to be the most effective tool for ending affairs, and hopefully he will be open to learning.

Should I maybe let him listen to my radio talk with Dr. Bill & Joyce? I'll get a feel where he stands as far as time he wants to commit to this. He did mention that "her career is not as important as your marriage" earlier to me, establishing that he was very much OK with my workplace exposure.
I may not mention MarriageBuilders by name - in case he talks to my ILs or worse my wife and tells her about it. I'll just talk about the concepts with him.

Talk went well with my Pastor. He said he called her and got a voicemail so he told me she probably will not call back. I said do not worry about it.

Did not even mention the in Laws. He was very supportive. I am glad we talked. SMB warned me not to have an expectation that "he was going to make a substantial difference." So I did not. I still feel good about the talk.

So... Back to the waiting. Going to be a long holiday season.

My pastor called my ex and sent her an e-mail. Both went unanswered. Your wife isn't going to call him back. She knows what she's doing is wrong, even if she won't admit it. The holidays are rough. Hang in there. This situation is not permanent.

Thanks nmwb77. I might suggest to him that he send her an email if he is interested.

Just need to get to the point where I realize - its all out of my control now.

You're exactly right. It's out of your hands. You have to give it over to God now.

WC,

If you are like many of us, you are encountering some people around you who do not think exposure was the "right" thing to do. For one, it is the most effective way of ending affairs as seen on this board over and over and over again....but there's another good argument for it.

It's very much a Biblical principle. It pretty much follows right down the road laid out by Christ himself in Matthew 18 about when someone sins against you.

I heard all sorts of nonsense offered up as the more "Godly" way of handling the situation from my ex in-laws and their friends who were angry about exposure. Stick to your guns. You did the right thing.

Sorry this is all so rough, I went through it a year ago and it was hard on me too.

I agree with this, unfortunately.

My ex and her OM both changed their phone numbers after I exposed to get away from the pressure. Infidelity is a cowardly thing to do for both parties involved and most people who do it are afraid to face consequences.

Have you been able to invite her to do some things with you?

I know she is not going to respond to the pastor's voicemail. I am just glad that he agrees with what I've done. That meeting was more for me... and at the very least, she knows he knows.



No.

I do not know where she is living. She has not spoke to me in any fashion since 11-16 (email about the finances). I have been told that I won't really be able to approach her for a while. She has made exactly no effort to see me, talk to me, etc. And that is the cold hard facts I need to live with for a while. That is why this whole process is ripping me apart... I just need to wait I guess.

Why would you wait? It is your wife. If you want this M to survive you have to PURSUE her.

If it were me, I would track her down, be as cool as possible..not talk about the relationship and engage her in conversation.

Maybe just start by emailing her something interesting..

"hey, ran across this article today and thought it was funny"..send it to her.

"did you hear about (.....)?? thought it was cool"

ENGAGE her!!

I agree with 20Year. You should do some snooping and at least try to locate her. It's an important thing for you to know if you are going to try any Plan A.

If you locate her I wouldn't just surprise her at wherever she is living. The lack of contact makes me think she is pretty hostile towards you right now and you don't want to give her any ammo for a restraining order.

The hostility is exactly why I have been advised to wait a little bit. But I am planning on doing something this weekend, I might just send her an invitation via text or email.

Advised by whom?

Why are you pausing? You did all the exposure, now you are just sitting back. Doesn't make sense to me.

There are always reasons for A's. What were they and how can you correct them so it doesn't happen in the future. Let her know your intentions.

Put yourself in her shoes. You exposed, now you are not pursuing her. What is she to think.

Do you expect her to just run back into your arms? It isn't going to happen.

If you are going to fight...then fight! Stop being so sheepish and step up the plate and go get what you want!! If it doesn't work, so be it. At least you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that you gave it your all.

Woman respect confidence in a man. Someone who is sure of himself. Someone who knows what he wants and goes and gets it.

I know how hard it is when you have been kicked down like this..believe me I know. However, this is not the time to sit back on your hands.

Do you work out? What are you doing to feel good about yourself?

Do some pushups, build yourself back up! Start looking a feeling great about yourself and go get her!

I know what it takes to win back a WW and you are not doing it my man...It is killing me to see you sit back like this and let it all slip away.

You can break the ice by sending her little notes like suggested earlier. Then when the time is right invite her.

You could send her flowers...whatever. Be creative. You have to be in the game to Plan A. Right now you are on the sidelines and not even participating.

So what if she says no to you or doesn't reply. If you want to win her back, you are going to have to do that..Win her back by ACTIONS.

By me.

Dr. H told WC that at this point, he is basically waiting for the OM to make a mistake.

WC needs to be patient.

Hi SMB!!

Yes. I think he also told WC to be careful in order to avoid having his WW get an RO - because she is so hostile at this point. He did not tell WC to pursue/woo her right now.

WC, don't stress yourself out thinking that you could win your WW back by meeting her needs right now. That's kind of a misapplication of Plan A. It doesn't really work while the WS is in the throes of an affair. I think you have adequately demonstrated to her that you are willing to work on any complaints she had about the marriage and presented yourself as the better choice but she is too fogged out to see it right now.

Like most cake-eating waywards, when she is not getting enough needs met by the OM, she will probably give you an opportunity to meet some of hers again. So definitely agree with the advice to be patient.

Thought you'd all like to hear that I got an email from an HR regional manager that stated - "we have taken all steps deemed necessary" and that "we request you cease communication with any *company*
employee."
Its from the OMs region and not my wifes...so I suppose some exposure got him stirred up.

Glad they acknowledged your contact, but this sounds like a little bit off an attempt to dismiss you. That dismissal irritates me, and I'm not even in the situation. I might respond something like this:
Dear Company HR Manager,
Thank you for your reply and your attention to this matter. I appreciate that you are taking measures deemed necessary. If I was an HR representative of Company, I would also take action to ensure that employees were not misusing company resources to further their personal relationships, and also take those steps to protect the company from legal liabilities associated with workplace based relationships. My research has shown that inappropriate relationships (affairs) tend to be volatile in nature and expose the company to legal actions based on allegations of either of the parties to these relationships.

Do you mind sharing with me what steps have been taken by your organization? I would also appreciate your help in understanding your request that I cease communication with any company employee. Have you or anyone else received complaints that my communications were inappropriate? Or do you perhaps consider the matter closed despite the inappropriate relationship continuing? I do have valid reasons for communication with your company since its resources are being used for behaviors detrimental to my family. And like it or not, as employees of Company, WW and POSOM represent your company even as they conduct themselves in their private lives. Brian J. Dunn, Harry Stonecipher, and Mark Hurd are all examples that happened to make national news.

Once again, thank you for your attention to this matter and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,
WC

Probably still dismiss you but at least doing so will erode their ability to say they did *everything* they could if they happen to operate in a state that still allows for alienation of affection suits. My ExWW and her POSOM worked for a company based in North Carolina. NC still allows for these suits.

I agree keep the pressure on that company, especially in your wayward region. You might think of contacting an attorney to submit a letter.
Not knowing your state, the A of A lawsuit could be a strategy.
Having your attorney put them on notice to about retention of records for upcoming divorce action and potential witnesses could be a strategy.
All things just to get the company uncomfortable and take real action.

Given this company has "regions" I would figure out who the highest ranking HR person or Ethics & Compliance person is and send a letter to them.

I find the subtle attempt to deny you your first amendment rights annoying. Who are they to say you may not contact any of their employees ?

I agree with everyone here. I sent a response back with the close advice of Mr. Wondering on word choice.

Last night I spoke to HerPapaBear in person (he was nice enough to come over to my house). We talked about moving forward. We talked about getting together a schedule that makes me into an attractive man. My primary areas of focus were:

1) My job - scheduling more overtime to get caught up & ahead. If we get to recovery, I will need to be ahead at work so I can spend a lot more time dedicated to my marriage's recovery

2) Church - scheduling more volunteering activities and church outreach Just makes me a better human being in general

3) Wrestling - I coached wrestling a while back, I could try to get involved with that again. something fun and keeps me physically active

4) Friends - scheduling a few hours a week to spend time with friends. Not to complain or talk about my wife, but just to have social interaction with other people

5) Family - scheduling a few hours a week to spend time with family. Similar as friends, but spending time with family a few times a week

HPB also recommended compiling a budget and planning my bill cycles - deciding what I need to pay (utilities, student loans) vs. what I can just leave on her who took all our savings (mortgage, car payments, etc.) He called it using the stick.

Our talk left me encouraged. That's where I am at today. Trying to get routine oriented. Anybody have anything additional to add ?

WC, I hope you can turn your focus to what is good and right for you, and not so much about being an attractive man for the sole goal of winning you wife back. You will naturally be an attractive guy by doing things that create a good life for you and that take good care of you mentally, spiritually, and physically. Your wife may decide to never give you a second look again (sorry), no matter how attractive you make yourself. But you will gradually come out of this dark time happy and healthy and ready to have a great life regardless because of doing what is good for you right now.

But if your focus is all about being attractive to get her back, then what happens if she doesn't come back? You crash and burn?

Please remember, that you didn't lose your wife because you were unattractive. She chose to step out of her marriage because of her boundaries, which were already loose before this current affair. Yes, there are things that you should do differently if you recover your marriage; but remember that you were practically newlyweds and your wife was already seeking out attention from other guys (plural intended).

Had a cousin of OM reach out to me from exposure. He just sent me a picture of a screenshot of my divorce case which is publicly on my county's court website.

He said "Stop sending my family your bullsh**. You come off as a psychopath"

I told him "Tell your cousin to stop having an affair with my wife... He comes off as someone with zero morals"

He responded with "You don't know my family, so please leave them out of this. Relationships fail. Everything will get better over time. It might hurt today,but look towards the future, no need to live in the past. If she doesn't want to be with you that is her choice. I know it sucks because I've lived it. Please stop sending every family member you find on facebook the same message"

I closed the conversation with "I am sorry you felt your best move was to give up on your wife/girlfriend and accept your failed relationship, I am not someone who is just going to silently allow my wife to continue this affair. Like I mentioned previously, we were very much in love not that long ago. Quit playing "damage control" for OM and stand up for some decent character and ask him to end the affair instead. If I realize at a larger date I would like advise as to how to "give up" or quit on my wife, I will be sure to take you up on that phone call as you seem to know first hand...since we are sharing legal papers I'll be sure to let you be the first one to read OM's answers to my 1st set of interrogatories and the transcripts from his deposition. Lastly, you don't know my family either - so ask OM to get out of it."


I think I handled it well, this is just the highlights. I brought up that we are not divorced, the case is just started. I detailed that I am declining that we are "incompatible." It appears the OM is in defensive mode. I hope I am adding fuel to his flame and eventually he will slip up with my wife.

I have come a long way. This kind of conversation would have really had me rattled a few weeks ago. You guys have prepared me in a way that helps me deal with this. It felt natural and I was able to quickly reply and I did not lose any sleep over it. I am posting this because I wanted you all to get some good reading material

EXCELLENT JOB, WC!!!!

I am very proud of you.

That was a totally Cool response.

My wife broke a window today to get in the house. She took a lot more of her stuff, I would say that's just about everything she owns now. She left the rooms a real disaster. She also left the certificate of marriage and abstract of marriage on the kitchen table.

I guess exposure has got to her... I am sure this is not too crazy in terms of waywards.

My ex did that. The good news is that taking all her stuff is considered moving out in the eyes of the law. I hope you reported the break in to the police.

Got nothing to report - its her house.

Could OM fake an email from the company to get you to back off?

What do you mean?

I think it's called setting up a spoof account. Since it came from OM's area, just putting it out there.
Did anything come from WW's office?

Did you call to at least see? You two are separated, she is not living there...you have lawyers and she broke in and messed the place up. I would file a report if they will take one.

Great response, WC.

APs and people who act as enablers of APs are usually waywards themselves or otherwise not very knowledgeable as to how successful marriages work. This is a very typical response from these types of losers and you handled it excellently.

I'd echo the others who have encouraged you to focus on your own well-being. Your wife may eventually come around but the path she's put herself on really takes her out of the equation for the time being.

You can start building on your own future right now and if she decides to join you, you are prepared with the right game plan (MB) to make that an awesome future for the both of you. But if not, you don't have to wait for the dust here to settle. Positive changes build positive momentum and positive momentum will carry you through this and ensure that you come out of this stronger and smarter than you were before.

The emotional fallout may be less intense and more sporadic than it was a few months ago but it's not going to disappear for a while. Having that positive momentum and changes to look back upon will disarm it when it creeps up on you in the coming months, no matter what happens here.

Keep up the good work.

You are very lucky to have SMB and HPB in your corner.

I agree with Ax. You're doing great.

Ironically my wife is SMB and HPB's cousin ... So if I never knew my wife - its possible I wouldn't have their support here when my wife went wayward...

Really funny God. lol.

I called the police. Officer came out and said I can't file anything because we are married. However, there is an official record of the break in.

The cop informed me of a funny thing - she was at the police station today asking for harassment charges against me on the grounds that I am "emailing people at her work." I told the offic[u][/u]er that its legal and I am very much against adultery. He said right now (the copies of the emails she provided) are pretty harmless but he said I should "stop doing that, she made her decision...it doesn't affect your religion, it makes you look bad, I am just advising you so you don't face civil litigations...blah"

HOWEVER so I tried to innocently pry out which emails she was providing. Hoping it was a particular one I started talking about it, I said "I talked to an HR manager not to long ago, roughly two days...He said I should only contact him, which I've done."

He said, "Ah yah that was one, I saw what the HR rep sent you and your response." WHICH means she saw my response.

I can only imagine the conversations they are having...

It's very strange to me that she had a copy of HR manager's email.

Makes me wonder if OM works in IT at this company, if said manager is aware that their subordinates have copies of their correspondence with you, and why they would provide that to your WW.

I bcc'd OM on my HR emails. He doesn't know that the HR knows OM has the emails in his inbox. However, it is hilarious that OM sent it to her.

I know exactly everything about the OMs job position he is not in IT.

Love your response.

So, back to exhausted. What an adrenaline rush today was. I am going to send her an extremely brief Happy birthday email tomorrow. Nothing that could be misconstrued as harassing. I am going to lay low for a little while, next activity is going to be get her a Christmas present - which will not be easy (I do not know this person anymore). Call me crazy, but I still love her somehow after all this... I guess until she approaches me or something like today happens again, I am going to use this thread to vent about how I feel about her occasionally and ask advice about schedules...

So, what does a normal morning look like for you guys? I started Google searching "successful daily routines." I started making some checklists (remember I am checklist oriented). I intend to have something concrete to start on Monday...

Really I am trying to put a ton of specificity into the morning routine, since most of the day will be WORK.

I don't know, just brainstorming and I am interested in what you guys do or have found success with.

Your emails have hit adultery land hard, you are doing nothing wrong, so don't listen to mr. ignorant police officer. (what does he know about civil suits, and giving you "legal" advice is above his pay grade).
Keep up the pressure on the workplace, consult an attorney about the workplace (a well written letter from your attorney could spark them to say, OM/WW are not worth it)

She has officially moved out, that is a legal lever you can use in the future if needed.

I can't really afford having the attorney do any extra work. Ohio does not have any AoA laws so it may not even be worth it.

You are right about one thing though... I hit adultery land hard. As hard as I could, and I need to be content with that. I'm in for a long December.

Happy birthday mrs. Wrestler Chemist

Christmas gift sounds like a good idea.

I start my days with a daily Bible reading/devo time 6:00-6:45 AM. Then I go to my gym and spend about an hour lifting weights M-F 7-8 AM. I have some flexibility at my work with regards to when I show up, so it's usually between 8:30-9 AM.

Spiritual growth/discipline and physical fitness is important to me so that morning routine has been very helpful to me.

What are some goals you've set for yourself that you can work on? You'd want to (if possible) structure your morning around those.

I have a long commute from 5-6am. I Use the time to pray, listen to audible books including my current Bible section, and to call family. From 6-7, put out fires. From 7-8, I like to read a current article to keep up in my field while I eat breakfast at work.

Until recently, I started days off with a cup of coffee, bible reading, then walking the dog. Then other reading and household stuff.

Ohio does NOT recognize AoA lawsuits....from as far back as when I was in law school there in the previous millenia.

I know. That's why I am not getting my attorney involved against the company. 1) cant afford 2) nothing to go on really 3) see #1
I was looking at AoA law in general and just had the thought that even if OHIO recognized them, I probably still could not afford going through with it. Thanks Brits for the confirmation though on AoA in OH.



Based on what you guys have here, and what I had come up with on my own first - I refined my morning to look like this:
Wake up 645am, Workout until 730am, Shower, Breakfast and Bible reading at 750, Depart for work at 815 and arrive and start work at 830am.

My evening has been made to look like this: Take dogs for a walk 815pm, Make a list of tasks needing completed the next day 845pm, Journal or Reading a Book 9pm, Silence & Prayer 945pm, Go to sleep 10pm.

I guess my goals are to be physically healthy - I might look into some 5k runs - maybe someday I try a half marathon? I just want to be proud of how I look.
Obviously my biggest goal is to remain as spiritually active as I am due to this circumstance even when the circumstances change. I also want to find my niche in the church body. I will have to ask about volunteer activities before I find what God is calling me to do.

WC,

I think your plan is awesome. Stick to your guns and stay positive. God will give you strength through this process as you lean on Him. You've got the right outlook here.

Don't be afraid to make fine tuning adjustments as you find your limits...you've just been through what have probably been the worst days and weeks of your life (Dr. Harley says the emotional trauma from infidelity is worse than even rape).

Getting your footing again can be interesting.

Just when I think I am getting my footing back, something else happens and rattles me all over.

My cousin was killed in a car accident this weekend. I just wanted to have my wife to comfort me and talk to, but I had no one...

I did start my routine today and was successful at upholding all my tasks I wanted to complete.

I am sorry for your loss. Sometimes times I feel life knocked me to the ground and when I start to get back up in get knocked down again.
Just keep up the good work, it will pay off in the end.
Keep praying

WC, I'm so sorry to read about the death of your cousin. Please stay strong in your faith, it will help you get through your grief.

Thanks guys for the support. My cousin's death was unfortunate. I think my WW just made LB withdrawals and I did not even realize it, I really would have liked to have her around for this news - especially later this week for the viewing, etc.

On the flip side, I have kept my schedule today. I know its only one day so far but I have tomorrow mostly planned out. I am using an app that works by "Stacking" tasks rather than using an actual time - so you literally have to plan every every minute of an entire day (I wanted to make sure I was emphasizing on myself the value of planning every task, to become extra regimented).

Hanging in there...work is going better today, I had been struggling tremendously lately to keep my performance up - the schedule is helping I think, and will help in the future as well.

thanks guys/gals

What a kick in the gut. Sorry to hear about your cousin WC. I can completely understand how your wife's absence in this time is making LB withdrawals. It's very cold blooded of her.

The tasks idea is right on. A lot of successful people I've read swear by lists rather than schedules because of the importance of goal-orientation. So many good productivity apps these days, and many are free. Good stuff.

I doubt she knows about my cousin. I am upset she's not her, but maybe not so much as to say cold blooded...

Yah I read a lot of similar articles ax. I'm getting ready to close out my night with journaling and silence and prayer...

Have a good evening guys!

Sorry WC.

This morning is off to a good start - got a call from the police department in OMs area. The officer said that I am going to be on the "butt end of harassment charges" soon. She said "I cannot contact OM, OM's family or OM's employer anymore."

I said "If OM can speak on behalf of his family, I am going to go to my local police and ask he stop talking to my wife."

Flustered she said "No you can't do that. None of his family wants to talk to you."

I said "Some of them do, I have been talking to some of them."

She said "I am just warning you to stop before you face harassment charges, I believe his employer said to stop talking to employees from his company"

"His employer said to only talk to one representative moving forward, which I have done, and plan to keep doing."

I said "send me the exact law because I have done exactly zero threatening."

She was a real piece of work and said "its no ones business to know that. You and your wife have a problem, you get it figured out."

"No ma'am, my wife, OM and I have a problem, and we are getting it figured out."

.... blah blah. I am waiting on her email soon. She was saying that my hand written letter to the mother was too much, my emails to the coworkers was over the top and lastly the calls (which I have made none?) to the family was too much...

I just closed the conversation with "Everyone who needs to know, now knows. The higher ups at his company know - the vice president of human relations knows, all his family knows... I do not really have anyone else to tell."

ugh


It was almost the exact same conversation I had with the police officer about my wife's harassment claims. Nobody thinks it should be "public knowledge" Its like our entire society agrees affairs should be secret and who cares about the betrayed spouse. Lets just defend the APs. I will probably paste the law (if its not too lengthy) in this thread for interpretation. I guess now I have been warned by two police departments - but it was by police officers, not lawyers.

Here is what she sent me - the law is lengthy so I will only post the sections she highlighted for me.

SECTION 16-17-430. Unlawful communication.

(A) It is unlawful for a person to:

(3) telephone or electronically contact another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of annoying or harassing another person or his family;

SECTION 16-3-1700. Definitions.

As used in this article:

(B) "Harassment in the second degree" means a pattern of intentional, substantial, and unreasonable intrusion into the private life of a targeted person that serves no legitimate purpose and causes the person and would cause a reasonable person in his position to suffer mental or emotional distress. Harassment in the second degree may include, but is not limited to, verbal, written, or electronic contact that is initiated, maintained, or repeated.

(D) "Pattern" means two or more acts occurring over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose.

(E) "Family" means a spouse, child, parent, sibling, or a person who regularly resides in the same household as the targeted person.

Well, "serves no legitimate purpose" is a problem for them, because your legitimate purpose is to preserve your state-sanctioned, legitimate marriage. Still, I think you can let it go now, because you achieved your goal, which was to expose the affair.

So, if I remember correctly, you are in Ohio WC....When I searched for this specific statute in Ohio, it does not exist. Also, the statute number is not in the style Ohio uses. It may be a local city ordinance that is not online BUT I don't think so....here's why....When I searched for "Section 16-17-430. Unlawful communication., what comes up is a South Carolina statute with that exact number, exact text AND when I search for "SECTION 16-3-1700. Definitions.," it again takes me to a South Carolina statute, not an Ohio one.

Are you certain 1) the person was actually calling from a police department (as in did it show up on caller id or do you have the number and does it trace back to a police department) 2) is the email with the statute from a legitimate government email address? and, 3) was it the same officer who cautioned you previously?

I strongly suspect this person contacting you is a friend of or somehow affiliated with OM or your WW. If you are not certain the call came from a police department it could very easily be someone claiming to be who really isn't. Second, if it is from a legitimate police officer, you may want to talk to an attorney about filing a complaint against that officer with the law enforcement agency's internal affairs department stating that he/she is using their official position for personal purposes, namely to harass you on behalf of a friend/family member.

Here is the closest Ohio statute that might apply to this situation:

2917.21 Telecommunications harassment.

(A) No person shall knowingly make or cause to be made a telecommunication, or knowingly permit a telecommunication to be made from a telecommunications device under the person's control, to another, if the caller does any of the following:

(1) Fails to identify the caller to the recipient of the telecommunication and makes the telecommunication with purpose to harass or abuse any person at the premises to which the telecommunication is made, whether or not actual communication takes place between the caller and a recipient;

(2) Describes, suggests, requests, or proposes that the caller, the recipient of the telecommunication, or any other person engage in sexual activity, and the recipient or another person at the premises to which the telecommunication is made has requested, in a previous telecommunication or in the immediate telecommunication, that the caller not make a telecommunication to the recipient or to the premises to which the telecommunication is made;

(3) During the telecommunication, violates section 2903.21 of the Revised Code;

(4) Knowingly states to the recipient of the telecommunication that the caller intends to cause damage to or destroy public or private property, and the recipient, any member of the recipient's family, or any other person who resides at the premises to which the telecommunication is made owns, leases, resides, or works in, will at the time of the destruction or damaging be near or in, has the responsibility of protecting, or insures the property that will be destroyed or damaged;

(5) Knowingly makes the telecommunication to the recipient of the telecommunication, to another person at the premises to which the telecommunication is made, or to those premises, and the recipient or another person at those premises previously has told the caller not to make a telecommunication to those premises or to any persons at those premises.

(B) No person shall make or cause to be made a telecommunication, or permit a telecommunication to be made from a telecommunications device under the person's control, with purpose to abuse, threaten, or harass another person.

(C)

(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of telecommunications harassment.

(2) A violation of division (A)(1), (2), (3), or (5) or (B) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree on a first offense and a felony of the fifth degree on each subsequent offense.

(3) Except as otherwise provided in division (C)(3) of this section, a violation of division (A)(4) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree on a first offense and a felony of the fifth degree on each subsequent offense. If a violation of division (A)(4) of this section results in economic harm of one thousand dollars or more but less than seven thousand five hundred dollars, telecommunications harassment is a felony of the fifth degree. If a violation of division (A)(4) of this section results in economic harm of seven thousand five hundred dollars or more but less than one hundred fifty thousand dollars, telecommunications harassment is a felony of the fourth degree. If a violation of division (A)(4) of this section results in economic harm of one hundred fifty thousand dollars or more, telecommunications harassment is a felony of the third degree.

If you haven't done anything listed in the statute, you have not violated it and the officer would have no reason to caution/warn you.

Love to see that brought to court, I am shocked that the police are participating in this sham. Squeaky wheel I guess. It sounds like it could be a "friend" in the department of OM or OM family.

You need to retain an attorney to protect yourself and possibly go on the offensive.

You are at war for your marriage and your personal well being.

Don't take it lightly, fight fire with fire.
If it is a "real" officer, they are abusing their authority. Take action.

It was definitely from SC. I could not remember if I previously stated, but hey might as well now - OM is from South Carolina.

It was definitely from a legitimate police officer from OM's area. She felt more strongly that I could face harassment. The police officer from my area said she has nothing to go on...yet.

BUT, you made the call from Ohio so the alleged crime is being committed in Ohio, not South Carolina...Even if it were being committed in South Carolina, in order for them to do anything to you, you'd 1) have to be in SC, or 2) they'd have to extradite you there which they are not going to do for a misdemeanor...heck, they won't even do that for more serious crimes!

Any letters you sent would have been mailed in Ohio and might be subject to postal inspector jurisdiction (federal law would apply).

This is something to consider. If the officer has no jurisdiction because you're calling from OH, then you could have a lawyer send a threatening letter to the department. Nip it in the bud. I'd hate for you to have to go to court over this. You'll win in court, but you'll still lose because of the waste of your precious time and money.

Check but I think SC still allows AofA suits. W which may apply. In not a lawyer so I don't know for sure but OM may be ascared if those laws are still on the books in SC. Because if they met up in SC, it could be a crime.

Sorry my autocorrect is out of control.

Nope, just looked it up. It is NC.

Yes!

SECTION 16-17-440. Venue for prosecution under Section 16-17-430.

Venue for prosecution pursuant to the provisions of Section 16-17-430 shall be either in the county wherein the telephonic communications originated or the county where it was received.

HISTORY: 1962 Code Section 16-552.2; 1961 (52) 451.

That was also sent to me from her.

But it still has to meet the definition of harassment. Which it doesn't.

Plus, that assumes the county is in the same state. I hope you do look into filing a complaint against the officer.

I feel like I am constantly the one getting humiliated - police in my house belittling me, divorce papers pushed onto me through a door from strangers, and finally this conversation. I mean - I feel like I handled the situation well with my responses, but I still feel miserable after the fact.

But nonetheless, I guess this is the blow back from the exposure. I just need to remain still and quiet. You guys have gave me the confidence that I can rest easy knowing there is no actual harassment coming... and if it does, I should be fairly safe.

I am just always the one getting gored... and some people are going to believe her lies and think I really am abusive etc.

I just hope someday she recognizes that I went to bat for her against an entire company, against an entire family of people I do not know, etc.

She may remain wayward. That is a very real possibility that you need to embrace. But even if that's the case, you will not regret this.

The way I look at exposure and things I did after D-day that I got flack for (like Plan B) is that my WxH threw a bomb in my lap and I was doing the best that I could to navigate through a horrible situation that HE created, not me.

And honestly, if you are the type of person that worries a lot about what other people think about you, this entire process is going to help you get over that pretty quickly.

I still went through nonsense years after the D with my in-laws trying to paint me in a bad light to people in the community, even to my own children or posting stuff about me on FB. You start to realize the people who will believe them are not worth your time or energy in the least.

Still...sorry for your turmoil.

You've done well. You have demonstrated commendable love and commitment to your wife. No matter what happens, you will be able to look back and know that you did everything you could.

Her best friend (our maid of honor) had an affair in her first marriage. She said that she felt terrible, but her husband did not fight for her at all - he just aided the divorce process.

She said about a year later she wanted to reconcile with him but he had already gotten engaged by that time. She does not blame him for that obviously, but she has told me these things to get to the point of "you are fighting for her WC"

Her and her current husband have been two of my biggest supporters in all of this. I just keep clinging to the words she said, "You are fighting". She has cancelled meetings on her best friend many times during all this, because she won't tell her what she wants to hear obviously.

There is nothing more I can do... my wife either comes back or she does not... I just am stuck here thinking "Wow, is she really going to pick that company and him over me?"

I didn't find MB until after D-day and exposure. After that, I used MB principals to win my W back and R our M.

Others have disagreed with my suggestions that you should pursue her and you have ignored it as well, which is perfectly fine. I have already R my M.

I believe my M would not have survived if I had not pursued her and had just laid back waiting for her to come back to me.

My FWW has thanked me NUMEROUS times for fighting for her and winning her love back.

I disagree.

Nobody told him he was finished. What SMB said was to be patient. ATM his WW is in full blown anger mode and trying to get harassment charges filed,.

WC is playing a long game - not a short game.

I feel like if I sent her a text message saying "Want to go get dinner?" I would have an officer on my porch within an hour 20year.

I simply started by small talk over text and email about interesting things or jokes...then warmed up to getting together. Just like when we first met.

She sees you as the person she left not the person you are/have become. She does not think it possible to be in love with you again.

If you allow her to see glimpses of the �new you�, she might open her mind. Her feelings about things most likely are changing every 5 minutes when she is in the fog.

Never know, you might catch her at the right time.

I believe she also said that this was Dr. Harley's advice, as well. Dr. Harley has the expertise to know when to deviate from the standard MB advice. We should be careful not to contradict him when he does.

SMB has a recovered marriage, too.

I am just so exhausted and drained from today... but I did schedule a workout with some friends tonight and I plan on keeping my schedule.

It certainly did not help my work performance talking to the officer today. I had another anxiety attack during work (even though I took my anti As this morning).

Hopefully I can decompress and get rallied around a good day tomorrow and beyond.

I've heard Dr. Harley say more than once that exposure speeds up the process of getting the betrayed spouse out of limbo one way or another. It forces the WS's hand, either they opt to recover or they opt to divorce, but they don't keep you waiting in separation hell for years on end (which happens often too). You can't help what they decide to do, it is out of your control. What you have already done is the best possible thing you could have to save your marriage, and even if that doesn't end up happening, you will be out of a terrible situation more quickly than you would have been otherwise.

You are not doing anything wrong by being cautious. Not every situation here is the same and the way someone else's WS responded to something is not necessarily how its going to work for yours.

I've seen several men in your situation on here (including myself) end up facing harassment charges or restraining orders for doing harmless Plan A stuff, and I'm seeing a lot of familiar warning signs here. The fact that she refuses to speak to you after this long should be taken as a warning to keep your distance because she is probably still very hostile towards you. That's why I used the words cold-blooded in my last post. Her behavior towards you right now is very abusive, there are no excuses for it. It's complete abandonment. We'd all be encouraging you to be pursuing her more if she wasn't acting the profile of someone who files harassment charges, which she is.

You need to keep your lawyer in the loop about what the police have said to you so you can get his opinion and are prepared for that possibility. I understand today was rough (it's frustrating to deal with police officers when you haven't done anything wrong) and I'm not trying to discourage you, but I am also trying to be realistic with you. You need to be prepared for the possibility.

A LOT of harassment charges and restraining orders are frivolous/groundless and unfortunately, in most areas that's not enough to keep them from being filed and you from going to court to defend yourself. That can be very intimidating, I know first hand, but you can also get your facts/documents together and be prepared for it. That will help put your mind at ease.

Also, if you don't have one, you need a call recorder installed on your smartphone. Many are free (I used one called Smart Call Recorder on my Android) and any correspondence you have with OM/police/WW/in-laws/etc needs to be recorded in case it is needed for court at a later date.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/ohio/ohio-recording-law

Ohio appears to be a one party consent state which means as long as you are either calling or being called it is completely legal for you to record it. It's a weird thing to do but the world you are in as a BS is a crazy world for the time being, as you have no doubt discovered. This will help protect you by providing a witness to any potential harassment or false allegations against you.

Viewing for my cousin is tomorrow... Then I'm going to church. Keeping that schedule as full as I can...

I have a call recorder, thanks ax.

Just need to be patient... This was just a bad day. They'll get easier I hope.

I got her a Christmas present. HPB and I are trying to figure out how to get it to her though...

I have been doing OK lately. I think about her more than ever it seems... Someone told me I am getting over the "shock" and now I am experiencing all the feeling fully...

My mom is in the hospital which isn't helping - but I think she is doing Ok.

Just hanging in there. Thought I'd update you guys since you have invested so much time. Thanks again.

Hello Wrestler,

I'm sorry to read about the loss of your cousin and your mom in the hospital. I'll say some prayers. The coming holidays will likely be tough for you as it sounds like your wife is serious about divorcing. Best thing you can do is focus on Your well-being and growth now despite what you hear about her or hope from her. That is a an important part of a Plan A. If you two had kids, there would be somewhat of a bond between the two of you, but that's not the case. You're very young, so the truth is you have to consider if she will be a part of your life going forward.

Tom

Just got a court order to appear in court Jan. 22 for harassment in violation of my temporary restraining order.

What does your lawyer say?

Haven't talked to him yet. Just got it minutes ago.

"Plaintiff submits that Defendant's actions are not only harassing and annoying but malicious and were for the purpose of embarrassing Plaintiff and damaging her career."

"Defendant has repeatedly and extensively violated the provision of the Temporary Restraining Orders which restrains the Defendant from annoying and harassing the Plaintiff. Defendant has placed multiple phone calls and sent numerous correspondences to friends, family, the corporate office of the Plaintiff's employer, several other individuals within the company with which Plaintiff is employed, and on social media sites regarding an alleged relationship between Plaintiff and a third party."

Wasn't most of your exposure done before the TRO? Also, she still has to prove harrassment.

Could you countersue, as she keeps getting police officers to call you with threats?

ALL of my exposure to her side was prior to the TRO. However, she is citing some of the exposure I did on his side which happened about Nov. 25th (TRO was issued on Nov.17).

I am talking to my attorney tomorrow - SMB and HPB seem to think it could get thrown out.

She also is claiming that it is alleged - so I could start that fire under my WW's butt when my attorney starts digging for evidence that it is not alleged.

Additionally, she probably just got my response and "served" recently. I only completed my paperwork a little while ago.

We will see after my talk with my lawyer tomorrow.

What kind of evidence do you have of the affair/identity of OM? I searched your thread and read about phone records plus what your wife told you. Do you have more evidence?

All I have is the phone records and the OMs behavior when confronted. She never told me who with. She described him and he certainly meets all the criteria.

I set of interrogatories sent to the right people could easily clear it up though I would think.

When I said "I have plenty to expose her with" I meant just the affair - I did not fully understand Exposure 101 at that time. She told me she was having an affair, I had enough to tell her family.

Typical dirty tactic by a wayward. It is serious, but an unfortunate manipulation of the legal system that is exploited by people with low character.

Your lawyer needs to fight fire with fire. If it goes to a hearing, your attorney needs to know how the judge leans. It is ridiculous to charge harrassment because you called someone with the truth and a desire to save your marriage. I forget how the first TRO was allowed, that should never been granted with an attorney with any know how.

Ugs. You must feel like you can't catch a break. Sometimes waywards are particularly nasty (mine was pretty awful) and unfortunately, that's what you go stuck with...

I agree with SMB and HPB that it doesn't sound like something that will stand up in court. Hang in there, WC.

I am prepared to offer you an apology SusieQ
One thing I am going to discuss with my attorney is validating the "alleged" relationship via interrogatories - which means.... more dollars!

But I have not talked to my attorney yet, he is calling me this evening to discuss this matter - we may just defer it all together. But this could be an opportunity to draw things out a little bit. My paperwork was filed and our pretrial date is in February.

Wrestler,

That sucks that a charge has been filed against you. I hope your attorney has the experience and a plan to get the charge dismissed. My thought, however, is to have a consult with an attorney who specializes in criminal law. It is a criminal charge. I think under the circumstances, at this point I would not contact your W for any reason. I would place any Plan A on hold. Good luck to you and some prayers.

Tom

Yah, might have to hold off on a Christmas present

Of course I was right Thank you for the apology.

I haven't paid him more (and he has not asked for more) money yet. So you just wait a minute...

My attorney just said "I strongly advise you not send her a Christmas present."

I was really excited about that.

I'm not worried about it! lol