Hi,

Me and my husband met back in late 2007 and married in June 2012. After the Christmas and New Years holiday he said he didn't have any feelings for me anymore. I had been feeling that something was wrong between us but I didn't know it was this bad.

We went to a concealer and have had one appointment every other week and just talked. My husband didn't want to go in the first place and after us going 5 times, I'm starting to feel that it's not doing anything for us, it feels that it has gotten him to wanting to split up even more.

Finding this website and Dr.Harely have been my rescue and I've started to understand what went wrong in our relationship. We haven't been talking (or I haven't been listening to what he have said), there have been angry outbursts (from myself), there's been demanding, selfishness, and all other love busters Dr.Harley is mentioning.

I haven't been honest with him, mostly because of how he responses with disrespect and everything Dr.Harley describes can happen because of that, happened.

We haven't met each others emotional needs at all. His needs have been sex but every time he have brought it up, he have demanded it, which have made me feel pressured instead and not being able to meet his needs. When he told me about the lack of feelings and love for me after the holidays, I started to do research of why I didn't want to have sex and found an amazing website talking about sexual needs from a mans perspective and I started to understand why he wanted it so much which made it easier for me wanting to have sex with him. But he doesn't want to have sex with me at all now since the love is gone and he doesn't want me to touch him in that way.

I've tried to get him to read everything on this webpage but he doesn't want to. He feels that we need to separate and with that get a divorce to start all over fresh and from there see where it leads us. If we can revoke our love to each other.

I can understand that he wants to separate but a divorce?
We have started to hug more and go out to eat and talk, talk and talk. we hold each other when we are sleeping (or mostly me, holding him, he holds my hand every now and then in bed.)He said it feels good but I've started to feel really bad mentally. I have anxiety because of all of this and it feels like he want the cake but wants to eat it too.

I'm starting to feel that I should move out of the bedroom to feel better and take care of me, but at the same time it feels like I'm giving up on us.

He's not having an affair or anything, since I trust him on that department. We also live in another country than US, we are from Europe and can't do counseling with MB.

Can anyone advise me in what to do here?

Hi starfish, welcome to Marriage Builders. The reason you didn't desire sex with him is because he was not meeting your needs. Women need 2 things to desire sex: an emotional attachment to the man and the prospect of enjoyment. When a couple grows apart, the woman no longer desires sex. If he learned to meet your needs better you would feel desire for him again. Meeting his need for sex under duress only creates a sexual aversion. You wouldn't have been able to sustain it for long.


He is very likely having an affair. The first thing you should do is quietly snoop on him and see what he is doing. Don't ask him and don't accuse him; just find out what he is doing and come back here. We will help you save your marriage.

Yes, I have understood that now after a lot of reading. I've always thought that there was something wrong with me an my libido. After reading "The good girl's guide to great sex" my whole perspective changed, but according to my husband, it's too late. Last week he said that I haven't even tried to have sex with him during this period and situation, but to my defense, I asked him early January if he even wanted me to try which he didn't. I even asked if he said no but meant yes. I just wanted to respect his no. After that I tried to have sex but it was very weird for the both of us.

The day after he brought it up and he was irritated that he always is the one initiating our talks and also that my angry outbursts was a big problem. I didn't even reflect over my angry outbursts before and since then I'm trying to initiate talks, and also to not be angry. If I feel angry or annoyed, I say I need a break or I start to do breathing exercises. And it's going good.


I have had my doubts if there is an affair going on or not, and I have asked him about it. In his first relationship the girl he was dating was cheating on him and during our whole relationship he has always been angry with people in our community having affairs.

I need to trust him in that department. However, I'm a bit worried that he want the separation and divorce to just go and have sex with other people and see if there's something better out there for him. He says that for him it's just a physical act and his needs for sex. He wants to find himself because he's confused and lost. Before getting married we both wanted children, but afterwards my dad died and I got my dreamjob and wanted to do a career and felt like I never wanted children at all. Husband always wanted them but felt that if I didn't want them, he could satisfy being just us.

Telling me about his lost love for me, he said that he wanted a big family, which I responded to that I do want. He have never heard me say that during these 3 years married though and have issues believing me which I understand. I just feel like me not wanting to have children was a phase, like trying it on but it didn't fit me. He says that he might just want to be alone (why he wants a separation and a divorce and try to be alone), and maybe he needs to give up the big family dream with it then.

He have also said that after the separation/divorce he still wants to talk to me and maybe also date at a later time. Just start everything over.
We are not Christian or anything but for me marriage is a big thing. It's a commitment. It's not the same for him, it's "just words" to him. We have always said "forever and ever" to each other and he sees no difference between them.

That is great that you want to trust him, however it is not very helpful when that trust is not based on facts and evidence. Blind trust is what leads to affairs. So that is where you need to start. FIRST, do some quiet investigating and find out if he is having an affair. This is critical because if he is having an affair then all the advice we give you will be a waste of time. [ours and yours]


Does he a drivers license? If he cannot "find himself" I would show him his drivers license and ask him to look in the mirror.

Wanting to "find myself" is classic irrational fogbabble used by wayward spouses.

He is likely having an affair. His complaint followed by his refusal to allow You to address that complaint is huge Red Flag. You should discreetly check financial and Phone/email records. Do Not ask him if he is having an affair.

I can't find any evidence of him being unfaithful to me so can you please give me other advices in what to do? Time is running out as he's going through with the divorce as we speak. I don't have the time to sit around and wait. I came here in hope for you to help but it feels helpless.

Our counselor told us during our second meeting to become friends with the monster, and monster being us not being together anymore and try to accept that feeling and that is what he's implementing with all this. He wants us to start all over and be friends and see where it leads. Atm we do hug, cuddle in bed which is a progress but he's love is not returning and he says it can't with all this pressure.

Fire that counselor. What a A'hole. He is not pro-marriage at all. All he sees his job is to make the divorce happen easily as possible.

Yes, time is running out so you need to step it up and start snooping.


This is because he has no earthly idea how to save your marriage. He has no plan. Marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and a higher personal divorce rate than the general population.

Hire a PI. Have you put a keylogger on the phone and computer? Activated GPS monitoring on his phone?

And I agree, your counselor stinks. What an [censored]!

All his devices are looked with passwords I don't know so I can't access them and I can't really ask him for them. There aren't any PI's in our country.

Yes that counselor wasn't really good. He wanted us to investigate how to be happy on an individual level before finding out if we can be happy together. In our country the counselors seem to not be working on keeping marriages together, but more to help the couple deciding in what to do. Something in those lines...

You say that you have found nothing to indicate an affair, but from the sounds of it you haven't actually looked at all. What have you done to snoop? How have you ruled an affair out?

Asking for the posters to ignore the possibility of an affair and give you advice as if there isn't one isn't going to work. It is a waste of their time and yours to post advice that is absolutely irrelevant if there is an affair.

If time is running out, you don't have time to bury your head in the sand, and it would not be kind or helpful for posters to let you do that.

Him keeping his devices password protected is a red flag.

I wonder in what country you live if you don't have PI's. In most countries in Europe, it is quite easy to find one.

Either you live in Vatican City or you do have PI's. Just googled all European countries for PI's.

My bad, we do have PIs. Not sure though if I'm gonna get anything out of it. I have had my suspicions when he started to look at his phone more often, changing the code lock to it and always try to hide it from me. I also know who it might be and that it's happening at work. She lives with a guy on the other side of the city and I don't think they are hanging out at her place. It's too far away and I think that whatever is going on it's at his work place. Yesterday she texted him in the evening and sure, it could be work related. I mostly think they are flirting and he got the hots for her and doesn't want to do anything about it until he's free. But yeah, I guess that's a way of cheating.

I need to get into his phone which he brings with him everywhere.

So what made you say that you cannot find evidence of an affair? Clearly, you suspected an affair some time ago. Can you see why you need to deal with this - the real reason he wants a divorce - rather than ignore it and focus on something else? It would be like dealing with headaches by taking an Aspirin, when the cause is a tumour.

Can you get to his phone when he is asleep, or in the shower? Also, you can hide a voice-activated digital recorder in a pace where he is likely to make phone calls to her - such as in his car, or a home-office or shed, if he uses one.

And saying you don't have PIs in your country, when you do, is doing the same thing - it is trying to deflect our attention from your husband's obvious affair, because you do not want to deal with it, and you are looking for a different, quick fix, that will stop him from moving out.

The only hope you have of stopping him from divorcing you is to blow up the affair by bringing it to the attention of their employers and force them to deal with it, and exploding the fantasy bubble that your H and his OW are living in.

I know I've been living in denial and wanting to trust him so bad. We always had this policy to never cheat on each other (sounds like a clich� I know) and I don't think they had sex. I do however think they are emotional involved and that he want to end things with me before they do anything to not feel guilty. His girlfriend before me cheated on him and he's always been strongly against infidelity that's why I think how I think.

I am going to snoop and the recorder was a good idea. I also need to get into his phone and check their messages. He takes his phone everywhere, even to the shower (so do I) but I'm gonna come up with a plan.

My dear, ALL married people have a policy never to cheat on each other, except for the tiny fraction that agrees to have an open marriage. That "policy" is known as the wedding vows. The policy never to cheat is at the heart of the very concept of marriage itself. Nobody gets married, or stays married, telling their spouse that they will cheat on them. Almost every married person is strongly against infidelity, whether they have been cheated on or not - and yet over half of all marriages experience infidelity by one or both spouses.

The problem is that our values, and our vows, will not stop us having an affair if we allow another person to meet our most important emotional needs - those needs that, when met, allow us to fall in love.

Your husband might well have rationalised his infidelity by telling himself that the marriage is already over, or with some other justification, but the point is that it does not matter what he tells himself; he is having an affair, and I'm sorry to add that it is very certainly a sexual affair. A man does not decide to divorce his wife over a woman he is merely talking to at work, and texting. Men dissolve their marriages for other women because they are getting their most important, intimate, emotional needs met by those women. He is having sex with her: be sure of that.

He was working from home yesterday and I recorded sound the whole day. Unfortunately I didn't play it cool and only a few hours was saved of the recording. From the stuff I can hear on the recording (he only walks into the room once) is this:

"You have been very clear, we will never be together you and me. Yes, we will never live togeter at all. The only thing we can be is like .... *mumble mumle* ... if you ever do end up single wew might be having sex and everything else"

Also much later in the recording which was lost I could hear him say something about Friday and feelings (he traveled away with his friend to London but he was going to the gym in the morning as he always do and I think someting is going on there as well, i don't know).

I didn't really play it cool yesterday when I got home from work and he saw me stoping the recording. He also saw me listening to something today and started to questioning me about it. I have alo asked him alot of questions if there is someone else but he is dening it and I'm denying the recording. It's also illigal to record someone without their knowledge, but I think he knows.

Should I confront him with this anyway? I feel sooooo sick. After I heard the recording I asked him again just to make him confess but he continues to deny it. He says that if there was someone else why not just confess that to me? He wants a divorce anyways so it wouldn't matter. I tried to say that even if there was someone else I would still be here if he wanted to work on it, but he just want to get out.

I feel that I want him to move out now. I can't stand him. Being unfaithful is one thing, but continuing to deny it is another one. I feel so sick.

He also addmitted to having feelings for a girl at work earier in the fall 2015 but that those feelings went away. He also told me in October that he and a girl had been flirting and that he probably needed to cut it off since she apperently wanted more, but he said that this ws another girl. I have always been fine with a bit of flirting since I've always felt so secure with him. I NEVER thought he would do osmething like this (yes I know you think I'm naive but throughout all men I've been with he has been the most wonderful of them all).

***EDIT***

starfish, I agree you should ask him to move out. It sounds like he has probably had many affairs. It is best that you separate from him and go into Plan B. I would get the book Surviving an Affair and read up on Plan A and Plan B.

Can you hire a PI like we initially suggested?


Not trying to pile on, but do you see how your lax position has led to affairs? You have been in denial for a long time. Flirting is a form of courting that should be off limits to any married person. Saying you felt "secure" with a man who flirts is like saying you felt secure with a drunk driver.

His affair is with a married woman, by the way. You should - QUIETLY - get all the evidence and expose his affair.

I have downloaded it from Audiable know and will listen to it. Is there any guidelines here about Plan A and Plan B in the forum or on the site?

I cant afford a PI, it's too expensive to have them follow him around for a week.


Yepp, I see it. After reading almost all of HArleys books available on Audiable I see how easy it is to slip and also the pattern of how it will go on forever if you don't work n your current relationship. The bad stuff will not end just becuse you change partner.

If it is the one I think it is, she's not married but she has a kid around 10 years old and lives with another man. They have a smaller business and a smaller real estate together which makes it hard for her to leave.

Should I ask him to move out NOW, and should I show him the recording? I feel sooo betrayed.

You don't need to show him the recording since he knows what he said. I would get more evidence asap and start suggesting that he move out now. Go to him and tell him you have thought more about it and would like him to move out now.

Can you have him followed for a couple of days? Somehow you have to figure out how to get some good solid evidence. You need to know WHO the affair is with.

But do I tell him I did record? If I'm going to ask him to move out, he needs to know why I'm so angry and all the other 100 feelings.

You should not mention the recording in any way. For one thing, you need to keep on recording. You absolutely MUST find out this woman's identity. You have no chance of saving your marriage (if you later decide to try that), if you do not know who you are dealing with. You will never know the circumstances under which they meet, and you will never be able to verify that they do not continue their contact.

No, don't tell him about your recording. Don't show your hand until you have evidence. All he will do is hide the affair much better.

In general, don't tell him about any of your spy resources. Just say, "you have said you want to separate and I have given this alot of thought. It would be easier on me if you moved out now."

If you do not want to save your marriage, you still need to find out who this woman is. She has participated in the breakdown of your marriage, and you need to expose her affair with your husband, to people that know her.

How did he come across this woman, if it's the real estate woman? Did they ever work together, or are they business clients? How do you yourself know her?

Did you check phone records? Is his computer password protected or can you check browser history?

Did you also put a VAR in his car?

How old are you and your H, and do you have any children? Has either of you been married before?

He's soon 31 and I'm turning 33. We got married in June 2012 after being together for 5 years. We have no kids and have ot been married before.

It's mostly a gut feeling I got that it is her. She started at his company around August as a project manager and he have never liked any of the other PMs before, but this time he did when I commented that it sounded like she was a bad planner.

I heard them talk on the phone once and he was rude adn flirty, like showing her who's the boss.

I haven't put any recording device into his car, but I should. He has started to tell me he's going somewhere and then I can see the car parked on the other side of the street and himjust sitting there. And he have told me he drives around talking in his phone.

I just want to tell him to "enough, get off".

I've emailed a few PI about cost.

I can't get to his phone. It's guarded like a prison and I don't know the code.

If I ask him to move out, I wont be able to record him anymore. Should I just hold off on telling him to leave until I have some juicy stuff?

(still kicking myself for not being able to save the one i made yesterday, I think that was planty of evidence and he is sooo sucpisious now so I'm not sure he will continue to talk at home)

Don't fret about that for now. You can probably record him in the car. You need to tape over any lights that show when the device is recording, and velcro the device somewhere he won't stumble across it, like the underside of the glove box. You MUST NOT get caught doing that, or retrieving the device, or listening to it. You need to become a cool, calm spy in order to get this data.

What about when he's in the shower?

What about his PC or tablet?

But can you get the phone bill?

His PC is also super protected

It's a company phone so no

Unless you recorded something new, you might be able to recover the recording. If you think it will help you, google on data recovery on SD-cards. If it has internal memory, it might be possible to recover data if you connect it to your computer.

Take a good breath and prioritize.

You didn't answer if you can acces his browser history on the computer. Is the computer also password protected?

It was recorded on my computer and when he starting asking questions I got super freaked out and just deleted it, but I saved the file but it was cut short.

Computer and phone are password protected and there's no way I can get into them.

Hmm..

A couple of years ago, a nerd-friend of mine fixed my computer. He messaged me for the admin password when I was at work. When I didn't respond within 5 minutes, he sent a second message not to bother, because he was already in, using a neat Linux trick.

If you consider putting spyware on his computer, I believe flexispy offers very good help. Their helpdesk might know if there is a way to get acces so they can install the spyware on it anyway.

But first do the easy stuff, like putting a VAR in his car.

This will be easy to recover, using simple recovery software. Google on free recovery software.

Do you have your own account on his PC? Is it an admin account?

I have my own comp and he has his own. Both of us work with computers and know how to secure them. There are no admin passwords.

I have tried to restore it but with no luck. There's one software bt it's so expensive, but I'm considering aying it, but I'm not sure if it will recover the lost data since I think was only a temp file.

Can someone guide me to some Plan A reading here at the forum? I got the audio book of how to survive an affair but I want to read something.

You've done, Plan A. Its time for Plan B. You've been trying to meet his needs for weeks now, and he has not been receptive. You've been trying to persuade him to work on the marriage rather than move out, and he's not having it. That was Plan A. Women shouldn't compete with other women for a man for any longer than the time it takes to sort out finances and get him out. You're at that stage now. He is going to be with OW no matter what you do now. All you can do now is expose and let people know what he is doing. The affair will probably implode shortly, if she has kids with someone else and is openly stating that he is just her plaything. She is not willing to attempt a permanent relationship with him. However, you should not have him back just because she dumps him.

Go to the red area at the top of every page, click "Articles' and put "Plan B" in the search box.

That's not really an answer to the question I asked, which is whether you have an account on his PC. However, I'm going to assume the answer is "no".

In this link, you find links to subjects that are important right now.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695379

Plan A is giving him something to remember when you are separated. You don't want the last thing he remembers before seperating to be an ugly fight. You want him to remember the wife he will get if he ends his affair. Plan A is not plan doormat!

Because you are a woman and this abusive situation already lasts too long, plan A will be hard for you.

Sorry, I don't have an account on his comp.

I've read through the links you provided me and I'm going to move on with Plan B. I'm preparing right now and going to tell him tomorrow. I can't throw him out since we both own the house we live in and I have no legal right to do so, but I'm going to ask him to move out.

First, ask him to move out. I would pack his belongings for him. Once he is out, you can go into Plan B. But you can't go into Plan B until he has moved out.

In the meantime, you need to step it up and figure out how to get the evidence of his affair. You have given us endless reasons why you can't do this, but you need to figure it out. Even if you have to slip a GPS on his car and follow him yourself, you need to get er done.

Do you already have an IM?

A good Plan B requires a good preparation. So snoop, prepare your plan B letter, plan exposure. Educate yourself on the essentials of plan B.

Unfortunately this means absolutely nothing.

My first husband's first wife cheated on him. It totally devastated him. Like your husband, he was always critical of people having affairs.

So I blithely assumed he would never cheat on me. After we divorced for reasons that had nothing to do with infidelity, he informed me that he'd slept with all kinds of women while we were married, starting right after we married. His reason? He thought it would be fun.

I thought I was safe from him cheating because he knew how painful it was and we seemed happy together. But in hindsight - there were tons of red flags all over the place and I just didn't want to face it.


Um no, you don't. (But it sounds like you realize that now.) Good luck to you.

The keyloggers and phone trackers are a little harder to implement. Make sure you figure out how to do it on your own phone first. What you don't want is for him to discover you are doing it (which was my mistake in my case!)

The VAR is an excellent tool. I actually like the cheaper model (~US$25 made in China model) than the "professional" grade one (~$80 made in Korea). The Korean one is too sensitive and records all kinds of background noise, wasting your time listening to dogs barking, etc. You might want to pick up a couple of them and place them strategically where you WH talks. I have it on my WW in a couple strategic locations and have her legal playbook daily, and feed it to my lawyers when I hear something important! The most important thing is stealth and not have your methods get revealed, which makes these things useless once the WS is up to what you are doing!

Hi,

I know I've might sound hopeless when it comes to my snooping it's just that all the devices of his are very secure which makes it so much harder. I'm trying to find new ways of catching him. Recording him is soooo hard since it's an illegal act in my country and I could do time for it so I need to be careful. I am looking into other ways I can find something out and I sort of have a plan.

Now I'm a bit confused. Shouldn't I tell him when I ask him to move out that we shall not talk other than through an IM?

We are moving into a separation and he is looking for an apartment to buy. If he has nowhere to go (I know it says I shouldn't care but it's very expensive where I live and cold so he can't just stay on the streets. Also, as I stated earlier, I have no legal right to demand him to leave since we are both the owners of our house), could I leave instead?

How do I choose an IM? Is it my choose or should he be included in that decision? I know it should be someone neutral and I have a common friend in mind, but I'm not sure if he would go along with her. She is someone that is married to one of his childhood friends and they are also struggling with their marriage. She's given me a lot of advise on how to fix things between us and really wants us to stay together, but she also accepts the fact that we might end up with divorcing.

It's your choice alone and all she does is act as a filter for you to protect you. He has no say in the matter
Please read the link to the Plan B article first.

Thank you! I have read it but that part was a bit unclear for me

No, first get him moved out. THEN you will send him a Plan B letter asking him not to contact you directly. At that time you will tell him to use a certain IM.


You can leave. Do you have a place you could move?

You get to choose the IM. And it needs to be someone who can agree to act as a spam filter and present an neutral front TO HIM. I need to emphasize this because I DO NOT want you to choose an IM who is "neutral" about adultery. That is not a person who can really help you.

We EXPECT that your husband will balk at using the IM; they always do. But if he wants to get a messasge to you, he will have to use the IM.

Recording a phone conversation may be illegal or may not be presented in a court of law, but recording sounds in your own home should not be. Even if you hear one-sided conversation (your H talking to others), it will be sufficient for you to determine the extent of his affair. You will not need to reveal how you find out, you just need the facts. So research what your country's laws are on these carefully.

The other thing is to search through his things when he's not around. Spouses having affairs get careless. That's how I found out a lot of things about my WW, from physical searches. Papers, notes, receipts, etc. can be very helpful in finding out what they are doing.

You are all such a big help to me, I just wanted to say thank you!

You're very welcome. This is a tough time in your life, I know it is for me as well. Hang in there and be strong!

Hmm after reading this link:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

Do I also send the recovery plan together with the PBL? Is the recovery plan something I will make up or is there a template of is somewhere here?

No, you just send him the Plan B letter - AFTER HE MOVES OUT - and in it you tell him that he needs to end his affair and commit to a plan of recovery. The plan of recovery is the Marriage Builders program that is outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Yes, I'm planning to kick him out Sunday (gathering some more evidence) and have the letter sent to his office.

I'm listening to book now, and I'm not that far yet, but is it any of these programs? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html

Good idea! Do you have an IM set up yet?


The program is this: basic concepts

You CAN pay to go through the MB courses if you want. Or you can go through the steps with your husband on your own. The program is outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

But you don't need to concern yourself about this now. What you need to focus on is getting separated and going into Plan B. You are nowhere NEAR a program of recovery.

Yes, I told her the whole story and she was sooo shocked but she took the job.

Aha, well that program I'm VERY familiar with. I've almost read (listened) to most of his books. I've had my H read some of it and since he like logic I thought he would be into this but he wasn't, and well, we all know why now.

Btw, do I tell him when I ask him to move that I know about his affair? Or do I just explain it in the letter? I feel I would like to tell him that I know before he leaves...but that might end up with love busters?

GET the evidence of the affair and expose it. Once you expose it, he will know you know.

Good!!

I have now verified that he has an affair. I feel so sick. Not sure what to do. I want to kick him out tomorrow but I can't since I'm going away for the weekend and he owns the house together with me so I can't change the locks. I'm afraid that they are going to be at our house when I'm not here. She's not married but she just separated from her "boyfriend". Apparently my H is afraid that they are going to get back together again. I'm scared to tell her bf about their affair and drive them into each other's arms. I know most affairs dies but I'm not sure about this one.

I don't want to do anything rushed and I need to go back to bed and sleep next to him and figure out what to do. I want my old hubby back, the one I fell in love with, not this monster :'(

I'm so sorry. What have you found out that's new? How did you find out? Do you know this woman's name now? Is she the one with the kids?

Why were you going away without him in the first place?

Yepp it's her. I took his phone while he was asleep and found their conversation on whatsup. Saw his code earlier today. It's in the middle of the night here, can't go and lie next to him. I tried. Just can't. He's waking up in 2 hours and then I'm going to kick him out. He owes me that at least. Going to take his key and then think about what to do. Can I send the letter on Monday? And just ignore him if he tries to contact me during the weekend?

No, don't kick him out this weekend. Did you send the evidence to yourself??

Can you capture that evidence? Can you send yourself a screenshot? Also, can you download spyware onto his phone, quickly?

He woke up and I told him to get out of the house. Can't stand him being here. I've asked for the keys, but he says he has the right to be here. Earlier this week he told me that he could move out if I wanted him to. Guess he's panicking right now. Well if he doesn't go, I will. Now I understand why you should pack his stuff and change the locks, too bad it doesn't apply to my country.

I have all the evidence I need, no need to install anything.

I would not leave if I were you. Can you cancel your trip?

I don't know. It's with my bff but I guess I could. I'm not really feeling to go anywhere anyhow...

I just don't want to be anywhere near him

Cancel your trip and spend tomorrow exposing the affair. Have you read my exposure thread?

Ask him to please move out. Tell him he was going to move anyway and his presence is too painful to you. I am really concerned for you if you move out because he will move that skank IN. I doubt you want to be in that position.

I have read that thread but my head is a bit on hold, been awake 24h now. Do I expose and send the letters at the same time? I don't know where to send them since it's a weekend. The plan was to send it to his work, a letter to him and one for her.

I need to send the letter asap to tell him I don't want to communicate with him and tell him about the IM. I just don't know what to say and if I even want him back.

He can't move her in, I'm buying his part of the house since he wants to buy an apartment on the other side of the city.

Put plan b aside for now and focus on exposure and getting separated. Go read through my exposure thread and start making a list of exposure targets and writing out your talking points. Does the ow have a Facebook page? Go to her page and copy her contact list and save it into a text doc.

I feel afraid to contact her man, they are in limbo between getting separated and getting back together. I'm afraid that they will separate and her and my h get into a relationship:'(

They are already in a relationship! So START with her boyfriend and work through all her Facebook contacts. Can you find her mother?

Sorry for all the stupid questions....
Do I start exposing today (it's 5.30AM here)? I can dig and I might find her. Can I just text her mother? I don't want to talk to her. Same with her man, can I just text and send some of the evidence?

Feelings have no intelligence and this is certainly true if you think it is a good idea to help the OW an d your H hide the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only helps the AFFAIR thrive. Did you want the affair to thrive?

Yes you can do that. But you need to expose to the OWs Facebook friends, your h's family, close friends.

Did you do what I said about her Facebook page?

You are right, I just needed to hear it. Thank you.

Not yet, I'll start with family and im trying to locate her mans telephone number. Hopefully I can get her mothers number from him...

You need to do exposure at once. Trickle exposure isn't good. But you need to expose.

Should the letter always be sent to the OW as well (copy and "I love ______ with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for that chance.")?

What country do you live in? It might help us give you better advice. There are european boardmembers, you might get help from someone familiar with your laws.

Sweden, but a friend helped me search for information and I have no right to it.

No, do everyone else first. OW will hear from them.

OW already knows she's having an affair with your WH. You are thinking of the Plan B letter that you send a copy to OW. You need to expose to her family and friends.

You have no rights to change the locks on your own house?

nono, put Plan B ASIDE for now. That is the Plan B letter. Focus only on EXPOSURE.

I have NEVER heard of a country in the world where it is illegal to change the locks. Will you go to PRISON for changing your locks? I seriously doubt it. You need to check on that yourself. if you are told that "it is not legal to change your locks" then go ahead and do it.

They say all the time in the US that "it is not legal to change your locks" but that is bullcrap. It is not illegal in the US to change your locks. It only means if you change your locks, he can MAY be able to force you to give him a key if he goes to court and gets an order. Most WS will never go to that trouble.

You can ask your local locksmith in Sweden. I'm sure he deals with it all the time!

The house is owned 50/50 by both of us, that's why the locks can't be changed. He has the right to be in the house as well.

So what stops you from changing the locks? You are one of the owners, so you CAN legally change the locks. Are you saying in your country, a locksmith would not do this?

EVen so, the more immediate issue is that you should be exposing the affair and asking him to move out. How are you coming on that front?

You can change the locks even if he is an owner.
as mentioned

It would be up to him to

1.break in
or
2. get a locksmith to help him enter

I believe Sweden has the highest divorce rate in Europe. The odds (and morals) are not in your favour, so please consider following the advice given without taking shortcuts. This is your best fighting chance.

You changing the locks requires action from him. If you ask him to move out, the message is not as strong as when you change the locks. Even though he has the right to enter the house, it will be very clear to him that you mean buisiness.

I didn't google (yet), but do you know statistics on how many people actually do time for recording a conversation they didn't take part in? Recording a perfect stranger for criminal purposes will be will be looked upon different than a recording made in your own house or car.

You need info, a VAR is the easiest way to obtain that info. Also consider a GPS.

He came home 4 hours after he left and had a breakdown. He has ended everything with her and has agreed to change workplace. I think he's depressed but he doesn't want to admit it, but he's really at a bad place. I've never seen him like this before. He associate me with pain, and have felt pain for a couple of years but held it in since I was under a depression after my dad died, and we slipped further and further away from each other. He will go talk to someone during next week.

We will start working on the program and start identify love busters, but he still feel that a separation might be the best thing here since he feel so very bad mentally. What is the best thing here? I argue that we should do fun stuff together and be around each other. Being individual and not honest lead to this.

Or is all this too early?

I've already got all the evidence I needed

Have you exposed the affair?

And his request for a "separation" indicates his affair is NOT OVER. It means it he is going further underground.

As you dawdle and put off exposure, the affair gains more power. You need to buck up and get to work if you want to have any hope of saving your marriage.

You are going to have to start taking this seriously and STOP following your own agenda if you want to save your marriage. I have been telling you since you arrived that he was having an affair. Now is the time to get off your butt and get to work if you want to save this.

I have exposed it

TO WHOM??

So you are on here asking for advice when you have not given us the FACTS?? How in the world do you expect us to help if you don't give the facts?

Can you be more specific?

Oh wow, hello angry outbursts. Can we keep good manners please?

While he was gone for 4 hours I exposed it to his family and friends. I didn't got around to tell her side of ppl since it was very difficult to find telephone numbers so I targeted his ppl first. When I was done talking to his mother he came home and broke down. He just realized what he had done to me and he was very ashamed and didn't recognize himself. He feels even more bad that his feelings for me are nowhere to be found and that I'm the source for him being so unhappy.

We have been hanging out during the whole weekend and done stuff together. I know you say that he still wants a separation and divorce because he wants to continue on with the affair but I think it's more to it. I have never seen him this depressed and he can't see any future for himself or us. He sees only darkness. He hasn't been honest with me at all about his feelings earlier which has been one of our love busters but now we are actually talking and being honest to each other. He feels that the only way out for him to feel good again is to separate from me, I'm the one that has inflicted unhappiness to him for so long and he's now fighting to breath. During his several breakdowns he have expressed that he doesn't want to live. I understand that he's depressed and I can't help him through it, he needs professional help. He's seeing a doctor today that hopefully can refer him to a psychologist.

We have committed to at least try to find each other again, but it's hard. Hard for him when he feels this way, and hard for me to know I'm the cause. I just want him to feel good again. We have done the Love Busters questionnaire and most of it was no news to us, but it was good for us doing it. We learned something from it and know what each others prioritizes are. We are going to do the emotional needs questionnaire tonight. Hard though, since it's hard to have sex for us, since he lacks feelings for me, and I am who I am to him, it's hard wanting me.

The affair was an emotional affair for both of them (I've evidence in their texting that they haven't been physical with each other), because they felt so sad and ill mentally (it's no excuse but I understand how it happened).

He didn't want me to tell her spouse about it since she got 2 younger kids and if he leaves they will not have a father (my H grew up without a father and don't want her kids to experience it). I actually don't give a damn but I've promised not to tell him unless they continue to talk and since we have promised to be all honest towards each other that's a promise I need to keep(I know I shouldn't have promised him that but it's done). I've also got free access to his phone and if there's anything suspicious going on, he knows I know my way around recovery programs if any messages are deleted.

You are being played. The affair is still on, the fact that he cares more about OW children you is a HUGE red flag. It was foolish to promise not to tell OW husband. Your header for a false recovery. Exposure means both sides not just one. That's very ineffective. The fact he made you promise not to tell OW husband should let you know who to expose to! Don't be afraid.

Half done exposure never works. Mistake #1
Not exposing OWH and OW friends and family first only gave WH time to warn OW to do preemptive maneuvers to thwart exposure on her side. Mistake #2

Get exposure finished today. Pressure must placed on the OW side for the affair to collapse. OWH is your #1 asset to kill this affair.

I understand what you mean but he sees the kids as innocents that has nothing to do with this and that they will lose their father figure in their life as he did when he was a kid and does not want to hurt them.

I know it was a big mistake by me to make that promise, but I've done it and I need to stand by it.

So to paraphrase your scared of his anger.

The first thing you need to do TODAY is expose the affair to the OW's husband and her family. The reason he doesn't want you to expose is so you don't ruin his affair. Don't be an enabler. Your ONLY HOPE is to expose the affair and stop enabling him.

I would do this TODAY without forewarning him. If you won't do this, then there is nothing we can do for you because this is hopeless if you ENABLE the affair for your husband and his lover.


What a load of CRAP! If he cared about those kids, he wouldn't be screwing a married woman. You need to tell the husband so he can protect his children from your HUSBAND!! Your husband is the threat and the husband needs to know so he can drive your husband away from his marriage. He is "protecting the children," my a**!

No, you do not. The only thing worse than making a bad promise is KEEPING A BAD PROMISE.

Move forward and expose the hell out of this affair. TODAY. Stop dawdling!! The more time you sit around doing nothing is more time the adulterers have to pre-empt you!

starfish, the reason your husband is unhappy in his marriage is because he is high on the fumes of an affair. An affair is an addiction very much like heroin or alcohol. All of the things he is telling you about his unhappiness are classic symptoms of someone in an affair. The SOLUTION is to kill the affair and create a romantic marriage. But you cannot do that as long as he is still in his affair. The affair will thrive and grow as long as you enable it. This is why you MUST expose it.

And please don't tell us again that your husband "cares" for the OW's children when he is actively working to destroy their parents marriage by screwing their mother. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You aren't that gullible.

Appreciate the folks on this site have been witnessing the betrayal drama in all its forms. It starts to become pretty consistent and predictable. It's a stage drama.
It's common for the betrayed to have been blind as you displayed when you first posted. Your husband relied upon your blindness to keep up his affair. He also used other tactics to distract.

Then you came here and you started to wake up and see. You began the exposure in order to open up the eyes of others surrounding and to help yourself get support while the lights were shining in your husband direction.

You only got partially through the exposure. Your husband realized what you are doing and is now heaping on you the moral responsibility for the OW children's welfare.

Know his trajectory has not changed. Don't become blind all over again. He has not entered into a recovery plan with you. You have made a deal with a devil to stay MUM at a weak moment.

Finish the entire exposure without his approval. Then send along a letter mapping out a recovery plan.

It's hard for them to stop talking at all. They work together. I've told my H that he needs to start looking for a new job and also not be in any of the projects she's leading. What's more hard is that here in Sweden we can't just quit, our period of notice is 3 months -_-

And this is why I should have talked to the OWH about it.

How do we handle the period of notice? He can't transfer to another office, this is the only one, and he's one of the best at his office, so they wont let him go earlier. He refuse to speak to his boss since he's a bit of a jerk.

This is still an issue even if I tell the OWH.


Also, I want to explain why I need to stand by my promise. This weekend we have been totally honest which is one of the reasons why we are here, and I confessed to have kissed another man 1 year into our relationship. It was "just" a kiss and I felt terrible afterwards but I never had the guts to tell him about it (haven't seen that man since then). I just made sure it never happened again, which it never did, with anyone. We are trying to move forward, him with knowing about that kiss, and me knowing about that affair.

What you can do - after you have exposed to OWH and all her family and friends - is visit his employer and tell them about the affair. Your H can put in his notice immediately. The employer may let him go sooner because of his unprofessional workplace conduct.



Like I said, that is a foolish "promise" that should not be kept. You need to get to work and finish exposing this affair. Don't be an enabler.

You have a longshot chance to save this marriage and that chance is entirely dependent upon busting up this affair. Your ONLY chance at doing that is exposing the affair and doing it QUICKLY. You have a small window of opportunity to make that move before the affairees start spreading stories about you. When that happens, your opportunity is gone because people won't believe you.

This whole thread has been very frustrating because it is obvious you have very little discernment when it comes to your own situation. We have tried to tell you since day 1 what was really happening and you didn't believe us. For your own sake, please put aside your own failed ideas and start listening.

Making a "promise" to help your husband cover up his affair is like driving the alcoholic to the bar. Why in the world would you enable the affair? Whose side are you on?

This is your first rodeo.

This forum has helped so many to ride their rodeo, please follow the advice. You don't know the bull. Melody does. She knows the next moves he will make and what you should do NOW in order to have a chance.

Unless you expose to OWH and their employer then this is what you're heading for.

False Recovery-Need Voices of experience