Hello all,

First I want to thank everyone that runs this online community. I was very grateful to come across a support community that has a wealth of information to help those going through rough times such as myself!

First I will give my background story. I will try to be as brief as possible. But there is a long history. My W of 8 years came to me almost a year ago during one of our fights and said she wants a Divorce. We started fighting a lot prior and we were both very neglectful of each other after both of our children were born (2 and 5 years old) But this came as a complete surprise as there were absolutely NO warning signs or hints prior. I told her that is NOT what I wanted and I was willing to do absolutely ANYTHING to avoid a Divorce. I listened to her complaints and changed my daily routine and stepped up to fulfill her needs as best I could. She admitted that I did change for the better and have been "amazing" since the threat of Divorce was given. About a month later I discovered on her phone that she was talking in code to her friends about being out with OM and taking the kids out with him. Immediately after the Divorce threat was given, she banned me from her public life. I was no longer allowed to go with her and the kids to friend's parties, work events/parties, etc.. But, she would still go and bring my kids along.

I confronted my W about the OM talk and she denied it of course and said they were referring to something/someone else. Then, my oldest daughter started talking about OM and referring to him by name. I recognized the name and realized that this was a "good friend" of the W that was a work colleague. I confronted the W with this and of course she denied it and accused my daughter of making up stories. Shortly after the OM blocked me on Facebook.

The W and I limped along for about 8 months in a state of her insisting that our Marriage is beyond repair and there was nothing I could do to fix all the damage that was done over the years. I put in my best effort to fix things, but was always met with resistance and no trying whatsoever on her part. Then at about the 8 month mark, she served me with Divorce papers and took the kids to live with her parents. After a few weeks I was able to talk to her and get her to put things on hold. We both saw how it was affecting our children and we decided to stay together and I insisted that eventually when things settle down, we will work on rebuilding our Marriage.

So, the W has been living back in our house with me for the past 3 months now and the talk about the OM from my daughter has ceased. But, last week D-Day occurred. She left her Facebook account logged in on our computer and I saw a lengthy conversation with the same OM I had my suspicions about a long time ago. This all took place before I found the advice on this site and I accosted the W with this information. She flat out lied to my face and denied it several times until I offered to show her the evidence. She then admitted to it and acknowledged it has been going on since the beginning. She swears it was just emotional and not a physical affair. But, I don't know what to believe at this point. I know so far I only have evidence of it being emotional. I demanded that the Affair end and she cut off ALL contact with the OM. It has been almost a week and I am fairly certain she has done nothing to end it judging by her call logs (still talks to OM on the phone daily)

So my question is this: is outing the W and OM really the BEST option in my situation? From most posts I read, outing is usually only done when a WS has already left or is in the process of leaving. With my W just coming back to me and a Divorce that is on hold for 6 months (ready to be reactivated at a moment's notice if one party chooses) I am certain that the WS would be so furious with me over a public outing that she would re-initiate the Divorce and leave me. I wouldn't put it past her to run into the arms of the OM and get physical with him to get revenge on me.

I also have a concern about her career. Both the WS and OM work in politics and a public outing would damage her career and possibly cause her to get fired. We rely on her income and that would devastate our finances at the moment. Naturally I don't care about HIS career or damage done! But, they both work in the same office and see each other daily at work. So, one or both would have to get a new job soon as this is unsustainable to end an affair as I have read. So, that expectation would be demanded by me to the WS.

Lastly, I want to get an opinion on confronting the OM. I know him from past interactions and we were friends before this all happened. But, we are going to run into each other soon at public events. So, I know there will be a time that I will be around him. I was just going to leave it at telling him "stay away from my wife and family and don't ever talk to any of us again!" Really nothing special unless others can offer advice on what to say or do?

Sorry for the long post. But any advice would be appreciated!

Welcome to MB. I am sorry to hear of the events in your marriage.

It may be that you have only read posts where the wife is in the process of leaving. However, what you need to read is Dr Harley's advice on how to deal with an affair, not just the posts that happen to be active here on your arrival. This is Dr Harley's forum, and all the advice given here is taken directly from his writings available free on the website, from his books, and from his daily radio show.

In his article How to Survive an Affair, Dr Harley writes

"If your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way, I know of a way to help speed up its demise: Expose it. Your own family should know: Your parents, your siblings, and even your children. The family of your spouses lover should also know, especially the lover's spouse. The pastor of your church should be informed as well. Exposure of an affair is like opening a moldy closet to the light of day. Affairs do well when they're conducted in secret, but when they're in full view for all to see, they appear as they are -- incredibly foolish and thoughtless.

Even if exposure were to be ineffective in ending an affair, I'd recommend it anyway. The betrayed spouse needs as much support as possible, and exposure helps friends and relatives understand what's going on. Keeping an affair secret is no real help to anyone. But I've been amazed at how well it dismantles the illusion that affairs rest upon. Instead of assuming that the relationship is made in heaven, an unfaithful spouse quickly senses that it's a one-way ticket to hell on earth.

The first reaction of an unfaithful spouse to exposure is to try to turn the tables on the betrayed spouse. "I will never be able to forgive you for hurting me this way. Don't you ever think about how I'd be affected by this?" Of course, it's really the affair that hurts. The exposure simply identifies the source of the pain. The unfaithful spouse should be the one begging for forgiveness."

The advice to expose applies to ALL affairs, and not only to certain kinds. You need to pick your exposure targets strategically, and they should always include the ones listed the in quotation (your kids, the other man's wife and kids etc). You are not trying to "out" or embarrass your wife, but to ask for support from people who know and care for you, and to hasten its demise by telling employers, in the case of a workplace affair, and the other spouse; these people can demand that the affair end, thus helping you with your task.

Exposure speeds up whatever is going to happen anyway. Your wife won't leave you because you ask your family for support in this crisis. If your wife "runs into the arms of the OM and gets physical with him to get revenge on you,", she is planning to leave anyway. If she goes through with that, the affair will die a natural death quickly, because it is unsustainable. There is no future for your wife with this OM, who really only wants a bit of free nookie. He doesn't want a forced marriage and stepchildren as the price for bedding a married woman.

Well, it's her career or your marriage. Pick one. you can't have both. The affair will continue as long as they work together.

You would not be doing a "public" exposure by contacting their employer, by the way. You would expose in writing directly to the employer and request that they deal with the affair taking place in their place of employment. There are professional and sexual harassment issues that they need to circumvent. If your wife got fired, that would be the best thing that could happen to her.

You need to confront him, but you also need NEVER to run into him at public events. You both, but especially your wife, need to never see or have any contact with him again. You can't end this affair by asking your wife to stop, telling OM to stop - and then leaving them to work together and run into each other at social events.

if you've read this forum, as you say you have, you must know that ending the affair takes drastic action, including instituting no contact for life. As Dr Harley writes in that article:

"Step 1: End the Affair

The first step on the path to surviving an affair is for it to end. An affair ends when the straying spouse ceases all contact with his or her lover and never sees or talks to that person again. Time and again I've watched what happens when a drastic and decisive break with a lover is not made. They try to remain "friends" and maintain casual social contact. But inevitably they find their way back to their lover's arms. It seems that when it comes to this one person, they exhibit incredibly flawed judgment and almost irresistible force draws them back."

Thank you very much for the quick reply! I guess I should have mentioned that yes I have been reading the advice on Dr. Harley's site intently. I plan on purchasing one of his books to read once I get past all of this and return to survival/rebuild mode. I guess I am hinging on where Dr. Harley says " IF your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way" I think the WS WANTS to end it as she expressed to me and promised. I just think she hasn't gotten the chance to for whatever reason. But, that is probably giving her more credit than she deserves at this point.

And, I do have good reason to assume that my WS WILL leave me if I perform a strategic outing. She will feel betrayed as I already promised her discretion before seeing the advice on Dr. Harley's site. As mentioned, it's such a touchy situation currently where she already has 1 foot out the door. Something like this would push her. It wouldn't exactly be depositing a love credit! LOL She DID choose to come back to me for whatever reason and things seems to have cooled down real quick with OM as far as I could tell. So, I assumed and hoped that she finally made the decision of me over him.



I fear that the above may be untrue in my situation. I am fairly certain that the plan when the WS left me and served me with papers was to give it some time for the Divorce to finalize and the dust to settle. Then, she would start bringing OM around and they would have just suddenly met and fallen madly in love quickly and marriage would follow. I am fairly certain their plan was to marry. I found evidence of her looking up contacts at our local annulment tribunal. We were married in the Catholic church and the OM is Catholic. So, it was pretty telling that she was looking up annulment information before she even served me with Divorce papers. The OM is about 5 years younger than I and has no kids, girlfriend, or wife. So for him it's an "everything to gain, nothing to lose" type of situation for him. I can tell from the evidence that WS has met and spent time with OM's parents. So, they seem to be perfectly fine with what WS and OM are doing. But, I have no idea of what lies (if any) were told to justify things. So, I think the WS is the one that is trying to "have her cake and eat it too" with keeping OM on the sidelines and proceeding with me for long-term plans. I am fairly certain that lies are being told to OM about WS and my relationship.


For the above, I fear the WS decision would be her career! It is her passion, hobby, AND job. I know everyone would say "then you shouldn't be with a wife that feels that way" But, it's complicated with the fragile situation we are in and that probably is a topic for a separate part of the forum.



So for the above, YES I should confront him? But just once and then that's it and all contact is severed? IS what I said good for a quick and brief confrontation dialogue?

I think either way I need to do some more sleuthing and gather more evidence to save before I can proceed with anything. So little is confirmed with evidence at this point.

Hi tech an, welcome to marriage builders. The best advice we can give you is to expose the affair as outlined by Sugarcane. Your wife is going to leave you over the affair unless you do. The longer you wait, the more entrenched it is. DR Harley tells betrayed spouses to expose REGARDLESS of affair status or empty promises made by the wayward. Keeping it secret only serves to enable the affair.

I realize you want to avoid he anger at all cost, but your marriage will not end over her temporary anger over exposure. It will end over an entrenched affair. Our goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all cost.

Just understand that those of us here in recovered marriages attribute it to exposure. There is nothing we can do for you if you choose to enable the affair by keeping it secret.

"For the above, I fear the WS decision would be her career! It is her passion, hobby, AND job. I know everyone would say "then you shouldn't be with a wife that feels that way" But, it's complicated with the fragile situation we are in and that probably is a topic for a separate part of the forum. "

Yes, she will choose her career over her marriage as long as the affair is conducted there. This is why exposure is so critical to your success. What topic would be suitable for a different forum? This is just a garden variety workplace affair. We have dealt with thousands from all walks of life, surgeons, pilots, engineers, doctors, secretaries. What do you feel makes your situation unique?

And I should clarify that Sugarcane asked YOU to choose her career or your marriage. What do YOU choose? If you choose to protect her little job, you must sacrifice your marriage. If that is the case, then there will be no possibility for recovery.

Hello MelodyLane,

Thanks for your advice. They are tough words to swallow and I will certainly have to chew on them a bit. But I understand what you are saying and I am thinking that exposure is the only way to go. But then there is the question of the extent of the exposure.


I didn't mean suited for a different forum completely. I mentioned a different PART of this forum. This part is only for advice/help on exposure. So, I said that in an attempt to stay on that topic and not get too far off track into the dynamic of my relationship, why I still want to save our marriage, etc.. as I feel that is for another part of THIS forum.


Very true! I did read that wrong and thought Sugarcane was asking the WS that question and not me. But I must say I am torn on that one. We rely on her career to literally put a roof over our heads and provide medical insurance for our kids. I guess I am just one of those people that always tries to get wine on a beer budget - I want exposure so I can end the affair completely. But, I don't want the repercussions! LOL

I'll continue to gather more evidence and try and work up the courage to do the right thing.

And, I guess I feel my situation is unique due to the following: WS already filed for Divorce and it is currently on a 6 month hold (1 month in) So, she has her "finger on the button" where she can call her lawyer up on a moment's notice and re-activate our Divorce proceedings.

I am forever grateful that she choose to put things on hold and feel that an exposure would be something that would cause her to proceed with the Divorce. She has already threatened several times to resume.

Tech Man,

Do not stray from what Melody Lane and sugarcane are advising you. Five years ago I discovered my husband was having an affair. He threatened me that if I called OW, it would definitely be over between the two of us. I exposed to our side of the family and friends only. I kept the OW's secret which allowed my husband and her to go underground and their affair continued for another five years.

Three weeks ago was DDay #2. This time, I wasn't going to be scared about exposure. I had nothing to lose. He was going to continue seeing her anyway. Besides the same exposure targets I did originally: My family, his family, our children, friends of the marriage, I DID Her workplace, and some of her Facebook friends. Her adopted parents are dead, never married and no siblings. I sent a picture of my husband and I. I only wish I had done this five years ago. If you don't break off and expose the nastiness of their affair, you may be destined to false recoveries like me

Follow Dr Harley's advice. Gather your strength. You are on the road to a divorce anyway unless you expose and give your marriage the best chance you can.

BW

Everybody who comes here thinks their situation is unique.

That's one of the many, many things that is the same about every situation here.

Nonononono...

Purchase Surviving an Affair now. This book contains the entire Marriage Builders program. It has everything you need for recovery or "survival/rebuild mode". It also contains the information you need to even get that far. The other books will lead you astray in an affair situation.

gotcha! You are thinking very short term. If you don't kill the affair, you will be competing with the OM for that salary because you will be DIVORCED. She has more money with which to fight you in a divorce if you don't do everything to kill this affair. So when you choose her job, you are literally sacrificing it ALL. You won't get the benefit of that job in the long term.

Well, I caught WS carrying on electronic conversation with OM again last night. I demanded that this stop already and insisted that she send out a letter to OM and block all communication with him (FB, phone, etc..) She complied but said "Ok, I'll do this. But, I'm talking to my lawyer tomorrow about proceeding with our divorce" So she cut off the communication, but it seems that she may be moving forward with the divorce regardless.

She said OM wasn't the only guy she flirted with recently and that she was trying to draw any attention from any guy she could. Seems like a bad insecurity issue to me. I already told her that I want to meet any and every need she has. I asked to fill out the emotional needs questionnaire. But, she said she is proceeding with the divorce. She said she doesn't love me anymore and doesn't want me trying to fulfill her needs.

So, I am not sure where to go at this point. But, I am praying that she doesn't proceed with the divorce and gives our marriage a chance to rebuild and flourish.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

OK, TechMan...not sure from your thread if you have read SAA or have it or not, but you need to employ a multi-pronged approach, these things are part of "PlanA":
1) Your WW will not give you the tools to meet her needs so you can play the percentages or use what you *think* you know:
a) conversation, affection, family commitment should be pretty safe. Keep the conversation light and interesting, not a lot of heavy relationship talk and no arguing. If is it seeming to head that way, politely excuse yourself.
b) remember back to when you both were in love, what did you do together that created that in love? Do that.

2) Avoid Lovebusters at all costs, again, if you sense that you will lovebust, politely remove yourself from the situation.

3) If WW wants to talk about the divorce, tell her you'll need to find a lawyer and your lawyers can talk about divorce, you'd rather talk about making her happy.

4) Keep snooping covertly, but no longer confront her with this information. SHE KNOWS she's wayward, you don;t need to prove it to her. If it comes up, tell her you want to create a loving affair proof marriage and you want her to join you, then go back to #1. If you DO find evidence, confront the other man directly and expose him without any warning and tell him to stay away from your family. He and your WW will see that you mean business when it comes to protecting your family. This is not up for discussion with the WW or anyone else except the coaches on this board.

5) Don't try to coerce or educate her or make any demands, the only way she is coming back is if she is "lured" back by the prospect of truly achieving that loving marriage. Don't talk about doing it, just do it and don;t expect anything other than her using every despicable means at her disposal to TEST you to see if you mean it. This is not fair, but it is important. Don't allow yourself to fall for any of these test traps, keep with the plan to demonstrate you mean business.

Did you take our advice last time? To whom have you exposed the affair? Have you told their employers? What was their response? Is your wife leaving that job?

People have already spent time giving you advice which you have chosen to ignore because you are afraid. The advice is not going to be different the second time around. You need to read the exposure thread and do a full exposure including her employer or you do not have much hope here.

Did you read MelodyLanes post? Where she points out the fact that you will NOT be living on your WW's salary if she divorces you? She is already planning to file for divorce so this is going to be the reality.

Follow the advice we already gave you!!!

Thanks WalkTheWalk for the constructive advice. I will read up on "Plan A" and follow to the best of my abilities at this point.

To all others: no I have not yet done a full blown exposure. The letter was sent to OM and contact was severed. Yes her immediate supervisor at work knows of the situation and is addressing it. I have not followed-up further on this yet. I don't feel that a full blown exposure is best at this point. All evidence points to her breaking it off completely at this point in time. Dr. Harley said IF a spouse doesn't break of an affair completely to expose. So for now I am going to continue to monitor and confirm. If I find any evidence whatsoever of the affair continuing, then it will be time for a full blown exposure.

People use the phrase "thanks for the consecutive advice" as a way of giving a slap to those who gave advice they did not like. They think they are teaching those other people a lesson, but it is they who will hurt, and sooner rather than later.

You can thank that poster all you like, but it is obvious that he did not read your history and did not realise that your wife and OM work together every day, and that you have not taken the first steps to end the situation.

It's a bit like going to your doctor, being diagnosed with blockages in your blood vessels and told you need an operation. You disappear because you don't want an operation, then later, go to another doctor without telling him your full history - and he doesn't bother to check your full history. He then tells you you need to walk for a mile every day, and you say "thank you for your constructive advice. All the rest of you can pound sand, because I've found a doctor that understands me."

Good luck with that strategy, and with following that advice.

You monitored, and you already found evidence of the affair continuing, just a few days ago. Also, they still work together. Is your plan to monitor and confirm indefinitely that they are still having their affair?

First off, the affair did not stop. They work together. What is the point of "monitoring" if you know this? Secondly, Dr Harley said to expose REGARDLESS of the state of the affair, even if it ended years ago. Unless he made a radical 360 degree change in his position yesterday on the radio show. I didn't listen to yesterday's show yet.

Bottom line is that if you won't follow the "constructive" advice you get then you are wasting our time and yours. Don't ask for more advice if you haven't followed the previous advice.

Feelings are not truth. Feelings have no intelligence. How would you know what is "best" since you have no experience or expertise?

Tech Man,
Please note that the message I replied to originally included this: "Well, I caught WS carrying on electronic conversation with OM again last night."

So the affair is still going on.

Also please note that expose the affair was in my #4, I didn't make a big deal about it because I assumed you were on board with the plan. You need to fully expose and all at once. Trickle exposing is too easy to construe as trying to punish the WW, just big bang expose!

You will know you did a good job exposing because your WW will be furious. FURIOUS. Because you will have been effective in impairing her continuing her affair. She'll be happy with you when you enable it.

Plan A includes exposure, you just don't discuss the hard measures with the WW. You put together your plan and you execute your plan. You can discuss things when you have a wife again. As long as you have a WW, you just execute your plan.

So in order that you can OWN your plan. Put it on the board here. The pros (not me, I am a Survivor of a serial cheater) will help you tweak it, then help keep you accountable to yourself.

Executing your plan is the kind of thing that lures WW's back home. Chickening out is the kind of thing that puts gas in the car so she can go on dates with the OM.

Walkthewalk, you said "if you do find evidence then expose. " He has embraced this comment as his loophole to AVOID EXPOSURE. He has not exposed. He has the evidence and he will not expose. Of course he wants to find any excuse to avoid exposure, and he used your post to do so.


He has embraced this part because it gives him an OUT.

Why not just admit that you hadn't read the thread properly, and you didn't see that the poster had already flat-out refused to expose?

Having missed that fact, the whole premise of your advice was wrong. Step one of Plan A is to expose the affair. The WW and OM work alongside each other very day. They work in politics, and have a reputation at stake. The poster does not want to expose to the employer because they need his wife's income, and also, he does not want to harm her career. What he is really saying is that he is willing for them to work together indefinitely, if she can convince him that she has nothing to do with OM at work. You, of all people - the victim of a serial cheater - should know that his wife will not break her addiction while she sees OM for hours every day.

Your post, telling him to meet the most common ENs, gave him just the permission he needed to to reject exposure, while thumbing his nose at those of us who correctly gave Dr Harley's advice, and thanking you for your "constructive" advice.

If you could just be honest and tell him you were wrong, and that he needs to expose to the employer FIRST, because while they work together the affair will continue, you might help him get the gumption to do the single most powerful thing he can do to end the affair.

Techman, I was afraid of exposure too. It just felt wrong and I thought my situation was different than everyone elses. It didn't make any sense to try and win her back by making her angry. My wife had me thinking that if I just did everything she said, we would probably save our marriage. And after I exposed she said she was done and that she had planned on ending the affair and fixing the marriage before that. She also said my exposure proved OM cared more for her than I did, because the exposure hurt her and OM would never do anything to hurt her.
But not long after that, she started trying to end contact with him. If we had moved away at that time, we would probably be in recovery by now.

Hi Guys,

Let's all just take a breath and calm down. I am sorry but I did not mean to insult anyone that is giving me advice or "cherry picking" advice. I am taking it all in and am trying to deal with everything here. I am hurting about as much as the day I was served with divorce papers and I have 2 young daughters at home to think of. I am sure the majority have already been through what I am going through right now at the height of their betrayal. So, please give me some slack.

By thanking the other member for "constructive advice" yes I did mean that I felt a full exposure was a bit destructive at that point in time. But, I am in no way dismissing or denying the other advice of a full exposure. I NEVER said that I am flat out refusing to do a full exposure. I just mentioned that I needed to do some more monitoring and gather evidence. I didn't even know the extent of the relationship until recent and a full exposure was always on the table and I was thinking it is inevitable.

With the above being said, the latest is I confirmed the affair is/was physical. The WW talks with the OM every day several times and is constantly texting him. This is even though she knows I am watching and am upset over it. She admitted to me today that she tried but can't quit him. So, she is in the typical mode of the WW being addicted to her affair. I explained to her what limerence is and about how quickly it fades. And, I tried to explain to her the other realities of the path she is taking. She thinks everything is going to be fine and dandy if she runs off with her OM to live happily ever after. And, OM seems to be rooting for this too as this is his wish. So, WW is an addict and won't quit! She keeps on telling me "but I don't love you anymore" as in basically saying that she "loves" the OM and not me and not even willing to TRY to bring love back into our marriage.

So, it seems that I am ready for a Plan A full exposure. And, NO I never said I would tolerate WW and OM working together forever. The plan was originally to demand that she seek out employment elsewhere right away but not just up and quit immediately. But now it would have to end immediately IF she wants to come back to me and work on our marriage. That is a big IF for her and I don't know what she is going to decide. But, she will have to decide after an exposure is done. I don't have much to lose at this point with how addicted she is to OM.

Thanks for sharing your experience! Yes the full exposure is scary in as delicate of a situation we are in when this happens. With you saying "we would probably be in recovery by now" does that mean that the full exposure didn't work completely and she is still in an affair? What is your current status?

The exposure definitely worked, but we live within minutes of OM. So even though the exposure caused her to see the problems with the affair and gave her the desire to end it, we still kept running into OM around town. Each time we ran into him, she would fight with me and sneak and call him. I would catch her and she would feel bad and end it again.
But that kept going on for a couple months. So by then the effects of the exposure wore off and the last time OM stalked her and ran into her, she started the affair back up.
So if we had moved right after the exposure started to have its effect, we wouldn't have had those months of running into OM.

Now it has been a month since she resumed the affair. She moved out and said I could have the house and she was done. I exposed to a couple new friends we made since the initial exposure and false recovery. She eventually got tired of not being at home after 2 weeks and is back at home with me and the kids. She was fighting with me daily and sleeping in the spare bed. Now she is back in our bed but still saying she wants me to leave and she won't stop talking to OM. Everything she is doing now is exactly the same pattern as it was after the first full exposure. So I assume she will eventually try to end the affair again. But unless she agrees to move away, the affair will just restart again.

But I remember when everyone told me to expose. I thought, "these strangers cannot possibly know my situation and the relationship that me and my wife have." My wife was already showing signs like she wanted to end the affair and fix the marriage, so I figured exposure would ruin that. And at first I thought it did and thought I made a huge mistake. But after 2 weeks or so I started to notice things improving.

Also, either your wife or OM is going to have to quit their job. Before my exposure, my wife convinced me that she could work with him and it would have no effect on her. But that lasted about 2 days before she was sneaking around with him. Even if your wife really tries to ignore him at work, he is going to keep doing everything he can to get her to talk to him. Luckily, in my case, OM was already trying to leave their job for a different career.

So I would imagine your wife is going to say the same thing, that she will be able to work with him and work on your marriage.
So you will probably never convince her to quit. But after the exposure, one of then will probably decide to quit or get fired. Then you will have to move right after that, to make sure y'all never run into OM again.

And it will be chaos after the exposure. She will tell you that you ruined any chances of saving the marriage. She will say you let her down and she never would of thought you woukd hurt her that way. She will also blame you for hurting OM. She will claim he is innocent and the affair was all her fault and that she pursued him. She will make him out to be this noble guy that wouldn't hurt a fly. Even some of the people you expose to will blame you. But take comfort in knowing that you are doing the right and noble thing, no matter what she or anyone else says or does to you afterwards.

Forgot to add:

I don't know if it matters or not, maybe someone else can say, but I did all the Facebook exposures late at night. I sent a message to all the people so they wouldn't get it until they woke up the next day. I didn't want the first couple people to notify my wife or the OM and prevent me from finishing messaging everyone else.

P.S. if you post some of the things your wife says to you about the affair, I guarantee it is the exact same thing my wife or some of these other guys wives said to them. It's like they follow a prewritten script. It's crazy.

I am glad to see you are coming to your senses. Hopefully this awakening will be backed up by actions. We will see. WE are not here to give you "slack" but to guide you out of a crisis situation, if that is possible. You are in a serious situation where action is the only solution. Hopefully you can see that. Telling us to "calm down" won't inspire anyone to volunteer their own free time to help you so I would avoid snark like that if you want people to continue to help you.


Just know that lecturing her like this only pushes her away. It is like lecturing an alcoholic who is falling down drunk. It achieves nothing and only causes her to defend her affair.


I would go read through the Exposure 101 thread linked in my signature and come back and tell us your plan. WE can give you feedback on strategy and timing.

So what is your exposure plan? When will you finally be exposing?

Dollarbob, thanks for sharing your story and experience. It really helps to encourage me to do what is needed to be done and go for full exposure.

MelodyLane, sorry I am not trying to give anyone "snark" I just want everyone to be civil in this discussion. I am certainly appreciative of all help offered from EVERYONE on this thread. Yes, I am starting to wake up and realize what needs to be done. At the beginning before I found this site and it's advice, I thought that she truly meant it when she said she would make up for this by ENDING the affair. I gave her time and was still holding out hope that SHE would take the steps necessary to end it now that I know and she knows how damaging it is. Clearly I didn't realize how addicted she is and how the "fog of the affair" still exists. Yes the lecturing also seem to not really go anywhere. She doesn't argue back much but takes it all in and remains silent. Yesterday she said in response to me "but he makes me laugh" like that was enough to keep OM around! We spent the afternoon together for a few hours without the kids which helps. I counted at least 3 times I made her laugh without even trying. But, OM is the one that gets credit for what he does. That "fog of the affair" is pretty thick right now!

And yes MelodyLane, I read your Exposure 101 post several times now and am going to use the templates you posted.

BrainHurts, The exposure plan right now is to gather a list of the targets. The first to be hit are the OM's family and friends, then HR and supervisors at work. Then, I will move on to political contacts/associates of WW. It's a bit complicated because I had to tell my in-laws (I know I shouldn't have before exposure) So, they know and are chomping at the bit to talk with WW but are keeping it quiet a bit longer as per my wish. But, there is going to be a public political event Wednesday night where the in-laws know the WW and OM are going to be at the same place. So, they want to confront OM in public and make a scene. I didn't say anything to stop this plan. So, I figure the day after on Thursday of this week is when I'll blast out my full exposure via Facebook and email.

Nobody was "uncivil" to you when they posted here in their spare time, to give advice to a complete stranger, hoping to help you avoid the horror story that we have seen here so many times, and that some of us, like me, have experienced first hand. You are the one who was uncivil in your pointed praise of one poster who clearly had not read your story, while giving back-handed digs at others who knew and were taking your whole story into account, and who were trying to save you.

We were right when we told you straight away that the affair would continue while the affair partners worked together, and you can see the proof of that in the fact that you are back here telling us how addicted your wife is, and how she has lied to you. You have experienced a second D Day, where you have come to realise how ruthlessly your wife was lying to all along about the affair being over - and we could see that coming, and were trying to spare you from that. Those of us who have experienced a false recovery know that discovery of the ongoing affair, and all the lying to your face while you lie bleeding, is actually more devastating than the original discovery.

We KNEW that you would feel as bad, if not worse, than the day that you were served divorce papers, when you discovered the ongoing affair. We were trying to spare you from that, and not "cut you some slack". What good does cutting slack do, to someone who is standing in the path of a speeding train? I thought you'd come here for help, not "slack".

Those of us who have been through workplace affairs (including me), made the mistake of nor exposing the affair to employers, and letting our spouse stay in the job. We endured heartbreak that cannot be described, when we found out that our spouses had sneaked out to have sex with the affair partner the very second the words "the affair is over" had been uttered. However, we acted in ignorance, long before we discovered Dr Harley's outstanding advice built on years of effective practice. I personally went through over three years of a false recovery with a workplace affair; the first phase lasted two years, during which I did not even consider that my husband could be lying, and having sex OW every time he worked away, and the second phase that lasted more than a year longer, during which time I tried to get him to abide by his promises not to see her again. The sexual contact only stopped the day I told him that if he went back to Brussels, I would not be here when he got back. He phoned his boss and resigned from that job THAT DAY. In-person contact never happened again. It takes drastic action like that to end a workplace affair. The promises of the unfaithful spouse mean nothing, just like the wedding vows.

However, I did not expose at work even then, as I had not read Dr Harley on this, and the phone contact lasted for another 5 years. My husband was about to retire when I discovered the ongoing phone contact, and it was only the fact that he was working his notice (he was in fact taking his leave, and would not go back to the office ever again) that made Dr Harley tell me personally that I could hold off exposing to his employer. He told me that if my husband had been continuing in that job, I should have done it right away. His being sacked from that job years earlier, due to my exposure (had I known to do it), would have been the best thing that could have been done for my marriage, and for my personal emotional health. You have no idea how much I had to recover from, after years of false recoveries. No idea.

I don't cut people "slack" when they arrive at MB, apparently broken from an affair, and facing a false recovery because contact is continuing and they choose to believe their lying spouse. Instead, I leap into to rescue them from the horror that I went through.

I don't believe that "slack" will serve you at all. "Slack" won't have done you any good when your wife has taken off with OM, after their affair has become even more entrenched. It won't serve you well to have tried to protect your standard of living by pretending not to know that the affair continues at work, when you eventually find yourself divorced. It won't serve you when you find OM living in that home that is paid for by your wife's income - the home that she will hang onto, after the divorce. "Slack" won't serve your children when their family is broken and they have to split their time, on the order of a court, between the shabby apartment you'll be forced to move into, and your wife's home where she lives with OM, who resents them, after the inevitable divorce.

You need to go elsewhere if you want cuddles. Here at MB, we give people Dr Harley's advice and we urge them to use it straight away, without diverging from it. We NEVER give people the slack that allows them to bury their heads in the sand - but we are always civil. Don't put our backs up any more that you have done already, by casting even more insults.

No one has been "uncivil" on your thread and I don't appreciate your little lecture. If you feel that posters are "uncivil" then report us to the moderators and have us banned.


But we do realize how fogged out she is and tried to convey this to you. It hard to help someone when they reject the given advice in place of their own inexperience.


Just keep in mind that the OM is probably not lecturing her so doing so only makes him look good. You don't want to do that!


Sounds like you did a good job! However, her love bank is closed to you; it is open to the OM, which is why it is so critical that you run this dog off.


good!!


THEN, you need to expose the affair THAT DAY when that happens. Maybe schedule this for the exact time they are confronting him? You cannot afford to WAIT because once the word is out, he and your wife will pre-empt you and spin the truth. The spun narrative will feature you as the "crazy, jealous husband who imagines every man is out to get his wife." You cannot afford to lose the element of surprise. Her parents plan to confront him is FABULOUS and will help you tremendously. We have had many affairs destroyed by caring parents.


The day OF. And you can't blast it out on facebook. Even if he is your facebook friend, he just has to delete and block. You need to PM each of the OM's targeted contacts. Have you made a copy of all of his contacts?

Do you know the OM's parents? Your inlaws can strike a huge blow to this affair by telling the OM that he will NEVER be welcomed in their family. If you and her parents also reached out to his parents with this same message

p.s. I want to APPLAUD you for bringing in her parents as allies. They can be so beneficial! The odds are stacked against you because of the length of the affair, but this is the kind of opportunity that compensate for the extra entrenchment. The longer the affair goes on without exposure, the harder it is to save your marriage.

Thanks! I was unsure at first as they were more lenient than I expected when WW served me with divorce papers and took the kids to live with them. Luckily I was able to salvage that and get WW back to "work" on our marriage. But, her parents are religious and are outraged at what her daughter is doing. I never thought I would hear her father call the things he called her to my face. But yes they are going to make it clear to OM that he will NEVER be a part of their family nor will he ever be allowed to be around them. But, the WW was already told this in the past and doesn't seem to care much.

Yes I am very worried about how the odds are against me due to the length of the affair. But, I can only hope to do my best and expose ASAP. After that, I think there isn't much else I can do but hope it dies and she truly wishes to rebuild our marriage. The OM if originally from another city about 2 hours away from us. The WW did mention to me the other day referring to OM - "He said that if he doesn't have me, he is moving back to X city" as I would feel sorry for him. But, I am hoping this is the push needed to drive him right out of town.


Yes, I think you are right that the day OF would be best. I will be watching the kids but can expose at the same time. And by "blasting out" I did mean on PM via Facebook. I am no expert, but I know how easily someone can delete something that is posted to their "wall" So, yes the plan was for PMs on Facebook. I don't currently have OM's list of friends. I will have to compile them tonight and tomorrow. He blocked me on Facebook last year when I was suspicious so I have to work around that. I don't know OM's parents as they live out of town and I have never met them. But, they are getting a PM from me with my phone number in case they want to chat about the facts of this issue. OM's mother is very active on Facebook and is always commenting on WW's posts. So, I know she will read my message!

Thank you all for your advice and steering me in the right direction during this confusing time!

I can't begin to tell you how fortunate you are that her parents actually CARE about her and are willing to intervene. OM are typically COWARDS who will run at the first sign of trouble. This is why it is so critical for you to open up a can of HELL on him. I expect him to run for his life.

Affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting it out there will ruin the fantasy aspect. Even if the affair does not immediately die, I assure you it will crumble fast. Exposure will take all the fun out of the affair when everyone is standing around watching with a disgusted look on their face.


You have a LOT working in your favor.

You are correct that after exposure, the best you can do is hope the affair dies while you present a PLAN to create a romantic, passionate marriage. You have to eliminate any and all unattractive behavior and sell her on the idea of a GREAT, PASSIONATE MARRIAGE. Tell her you don't want the old marriage back. That means NO MORE LECTURING. Have you read lovebusters?


Perfect! The reason you want to expose on the same day that he is being confronted is so this has a tsunami effect and so they can't pre-empt you. It is the best way to bust up an affair.


You are doing great!

Thanks MelodyLane! I appreciate the advice and encouragement!

Well today is exposure day. It seems that the WW parent's are restraining themselves. They told me this morning "We talked it over and think it's best that YOU confront OM first. This way, WW will see YOU as the one putting an end to things and YOU being the one that cares about this. THEN, we will pile on afterwards." I get their point and it makes sense. So, I believe I am going to have to be the one to confront OM today and give him a talking to. We will see what happens after that with the in-laws.

As for the exposure, I was going to go to their HR department and inform them tonight of the workplace affair. But then I caught the caveat on the "Outing 101" post about giving your WS 1 month to find another job FIRST. Otherwise, THEN you expose to their HR should WS not comply. Should I go this route? It just conflicts with the "expose to as many targets as possible and don't trickle expose or threaten WS to expose" So, I was just wondering if I could get clarification on this?

I'm running out the door right now, I'm sure others will be along shortly. While it's great that you have your IL's support, they don't know how to deal with affairs.

Confrontation of OM will not work without a full blown exposure, PERIOD. Confrontation is more like the cherry on top in terms of fighting an affair, an accessory - not the main strategy.

Please just follow the instructions here, to the letter.

You should expose FIRST and then confront the OM. Her parents can go with you if they want, but you should expose FIRST. You can confront this [censored] later in the week.


NO, that caveat is only for WS's who have agreed to end their affairs and have agreed to leave the job. It is a good will gesture. Your wife has not agreed to any of that. So you need to expose the affair to HR also.

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But, YOU confronting him is unlikely to end the affair. You are his direct competition and she has been demonizing and discrediting you for months. He will just reiterate that to you. Her PARENTS, on the other hand, are a much more serious threat to him. He cannot attack them without greatly offending your WW. This backs him into a very uncomfortable place. I disagree with their premise, but as long as they agree to confront him, that is a major asset even if it comes later this week.

You are putting an end to his affair via the EXPOSURE. THAT is your most powerful weapon. I would place a confrontation from your in-laws in the same category.

Techman,

The fact that you have been silent for nearly a week is alarming. If you completed your exposure there are next steps for you that you need to be educated on.

Here's hoping you didn't abandon the advice you were given and are no longer wanting to follow the MB recovery path.

Would really like to see an update from you.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for checking in and thanks for the continued advice! Sorry for falling silent. I didn't get into the other details of my life. But, we closed on a new house last week. So that was kind of the "line in the sand" where I told the WW to proceed with me on this path and a new life and end the affair, or go run off with him. She can't have both. So, I am glad she chose me and we moved forward with our house closing. So, it has been a hectic week.

The exposure day was our closing day due to bad timing of the political event. And, the WW was stressed out enough about the closing and the huge step she is taking with me. I was also exhausted that day and was a nervous wreck wondering what was going to happen. So, I called the in-laws off and asked to give the WW 1 day to recover. They couldn't hold out any longer that they knew about the affair. So, they confronted WW the very next day and had a long talk with her. I think it impacted her a lot but she didn't say much for the most part and just took her lecturing. My mother-in-law also scheduled a counseling appointment with the counselor she sees and we went that very afternoon for a session. I think it helped and the WW agreed to schedule a second appointment 2 weeks out.

As for the exposure, I am still trying to work it out. My WW never refused to leave her job. Originally she just dismissed it as "yeah, sure OK" when I told her it is an absolute MUST if she is serious about ending the affair. So, the WW is saying she WILL leave. Her mother visited her at work 2 days ago as a warning and to put pressure on her. They are in agreement that WW and OM can't work together and that caused a panic with the WW. Then the WW started telling me that she is going to have to resign because her mother will ruin her job, etc... I said "good! Go ahead and resign" I called her bluff and yesterday she was waffling saying "well, my boss doesn't want me to resign" and I said "well, he has to have a resolution to the two of you working together then" which he doesn't. So, that is where we are stuck at the moment. She doesn't seem to be very serious about finding a new job but will so long as I keep on pushing her.

So, I have my letters typed up and a list of friends/family of OM. It's hard to tell who is family and just friends as he has me blocked. But, I think I should hold off on the workplace/HR exposure until I see how serious WW is about leaving on her own accord? The father-in-law and I also are trying to find a place/time to confront OM now that we put that on hold.

The thing is, you don't need to expose at work at all, if you do't want to. You don't have to do any of the things Dr Harley recommends. You're a grown man and you can do as you like. If you don't want to risk your wife losing her job, you don't have to expose there.

If you don't expose at work, though, the affair will continue. It is continuing right now, every day while she sees him. If you're okay with that, that's all that matters.

You won't find a single regular poster on this forum who will recommend holding off on workplace exposure until you "see how serious your wife is about leaving". This is because we have already seen how serious she is about NOT leaving. All she needs to do is hand in her notice. She's had more than a month since D Day to do that; she has seen how devastated you are, and she has put you through the discovery of more contact, and still she hasn't handed in her notice. We know that she will not do that now, so we will not say that it is okay to wait any longer. Dr Harley does not say that it is okay to wait any longer, and we only give the advice that he gives.

I made a long post to you that you did not acknowledge, giving my personal experience of a continued workplace affair. Everyone on this forum who dealt with a workplace affair had the same experience of rediscovering the affair. We know what's coming your way. However, you can take that advice, or leave it; it's up to you. But please don't try and get us to endorse your inaction and cowardice. We won't do that.

The problem is not HER "seriousness," but yours. You are the problem here, not her. It is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. And you enable her by keeping her affair a secret for her and her boyfriend. The only reason you should hold off on workplace exposure is if your wife has given her 30 day notice. Has she done this? Otherwise you should not wait.

Your odds of recovery have gone down immensely since you have arrived here due to a complete lack of action. Just know that there is nothing we can do for you if you refuse to take action. Nothing we tell you to do can compensate for your enabling.

Exposure, exposure, exposure, exposure, exposure. To

Techman,

Your odds of truly recovering your M aren't good, not even close, if you decide to follow "TM's plan for recovery".

So far you haven't taken one piece of advice given and followed through on it. That's disappointing to those of us that care enough to post to you. Marriages can be saved but, unfortunately, not by using what most people think as the right plan. Dr. Harley has a very specific plan for a reason. He has seen it all and knows his plan gives every marriage its best chance.

Your instincts while admirable aren't going to help you recover your M. Even now your wife is waffling, most likely lying to you to get you off her back. Every day she's exposed to her addiction is a day she moves further away from you. You need the support of many, not just your in-laws.

These great people here have seen it all and can write a script of how your life is going to end up unless you change your plan.

Your first step has to be to complete a full nuclear exposure. Unfortunately you've already started your exposure which we call a trickle exposure. Trickling it in doesn't work. Get your full blown exposure ready and follow through on it. Your W will forgive you so long as you follow the entire plan and build a romantic, loving M with her.

There are many things that you'll need to know about recovering your M but that all comes after you complete this exposure. Please follow the advice of these great people that are posting to you. They know this stuff so well and they'll guide you step by step and through every backslide if you just follow their advice.

An affair is very much like getting a bacterial infection. The marriage is the body and the affair is the infection. The longer the infection goes untreated, the more advanced the infection and the harder to cure. The longer you wait to get treatment, the less likely you will survive. Let�s say you have an infection for a year and have never treated it. By the time you start penicillin, [exposure=penicillin] you are at death�s door. You have a tiny chance of survival at this point because the infection is so advanced.

At this point would you employ:

1. a very tiny one-time dose of penicillin
2. full blown, massive course of penicillin

Because what you are doing is #1. You have a very small chance of saving this because the affair has gone on so long. It may even be too late now. The only solution, if that is possible, is a FULL COURSE of penicillin. As you can see, your little trickle exposure achieved nothing. Nor will it. I would love to see you save your marriage, but you can't do that if you don't get serious, my friend.

I will add that the earlier the affair is exposed the easier it is to kill the affair. We have had affairs that were exposed very early that were killed that very day. It is also easier to recover because the wayward mindset brought on by the affair is easier to bust up. It has not become so entrenched that it is a way of life.

The longer the affair, more entrenched the affair AND the wayward mentality.

Thanks! I never said I wasn't going to expose and the only "trickle" I have done is tell WW parent's because they needed to know what was going on with the house situation and I didn't even know if that was going through. I took care to not expose to anyone else as of yet. I read the advice and know that all should be done at once as a tsunami effect.

Yes I know about how deeply entrenched the WW becomes. The sad fact of the matter is that this has been going on for a year+ and I only found out as of recent. So it's already deeply entrenched and there is a lot of emotional attachment to break up. But yes I know either way full exposure should happen ASAP. So, that is the plan and I am moving forward with it. I will report back with the results!

When will you be exposing?

Who is on your exposure list?

Well today is/was exposure day. My targets are OM parents and friends/family, work supervisors, and work associates. There is an ethics board at their work (WW and OM work for the county government) but I am not sure if they would care about such things. I did say to the wife when I was asking her to leave her job that they (her employers) would not be happy with her activities. She quipped back - "2 consenting adults can do whatever legal activities they want" And I stated - "Yes, BUT not on county time!" So, I am on the fence about the effects of the work exposure. The only real proof I have to offer the employer is cellphone logs of calls and text messages during work hours. But they can always argue it was "work related"

The WW did mention that she spoke to her boss (an elected official) and asked him to speak with OM about ending things and not contacting WW anymore. But, this boss is currently in an active workplace affair of his own. So, I am sure he provided a "high five" and tips on getting away with it! The WW did mention that he told OM "I am here to talk to if you need me" How comforting!

I will be sure to keep everyone updated on the results of my exposure. The next thing I have planned is to find a time I can confront OM.

I would add the Human Resources department and the ethics board. You have proof, it is her admission.


good job! I want to emphasize that you must DEMAND that she quit the job and end her affair or your marriage will end in divorce. There can be NO CIRCUMSTANCE where she stays employed there and your marriage will survive. And maybe the workplace won't do any thing about it, but what they will DO is watch them. They won't be able to carry on very freely at work anymore.

Is there anyone else on your exposure list? What about your family, her family, everyone?



The effects will be positive no matter what. At best, she will lose her job. At worst, they will all keep an eye on the cheaters. Workplace cheaters are pariahs at work, especially women.

Are you reporting the affair to his supervisor? You should also tell him that you were informed that this boss is also having an affair in the workplace. I would throw in a sentence about how embarrassing it would be if the adultery culture in their workplace got out to the public. Taxpayers would not be too happy to discover people are conducting affairs on the county payroll.

He doesn't really have a supervisor in his position. Being an elected official in the spot he is in he only has peers. All of his peers know about his workplace affair as well as the majority of people in the office. They just accept it as a "norm" and don't bring it up at all. I wonder where my WW got the idea for her workplace affair! I don't really want to use his affair as a threat in my situation. The WW said he was pretty much the "only one" giving advice to stay in our marriage when WW was contemplating divorce last year. So, I wouldn't want to lose his support and start a war on another front.

I was thinking of expanding the exposure list. But all of my friends/family that I speak to on a regular basis already know what is going on with the affair. The WW doesn't really have any family that she speaks to except her immediate family that I already talked with. Our friends are common friends so not much to expose to there.

As for the fallout, I could tell WW found out right away. I called her after work and could tell she was mad at me. She has been acting mad, cold, and distant to me since yesterday. I keep on asking her "what's wrong" But, she keeps on saying "nothing!" and just keeping silent. This has been her typical pattern of just ignoring the affair and never talking about it unless I do. So I guess now I just continue on as normal and try to kill her with kindness? Should I bring up the reason I think she is upset (the exposure) and have a talk with her about it? Or, should I just play along with her ignoring it and hope her anger subsides and we go back to normal?

So far I have had zero response from my exposure targets. I am sure everyone is taking it all in and hopefully confronting/verifying the reality of it all. Time will tell!

" The WW doesn't really have any family that she speaks to except her immediate family that I already talked with. Our friends are common friends so not much to expose to there."

You should be exposing to her family and friends regardless of who she speaks to right now. You don't know who will or won't have an influence. What do you mean by common friends? Have you exposed to these friends personally?

Wait a minute, am I understanding you correctly? You ARE exposing to the workplace today, right?

Exposure is an excellent tool for a betrayed husband IF it is used correctly. Don't make the mistake of trying to expose by using your own ideas and rules as a guideline. The procedure has already been tried and proven to work -- just follow the steps!

You've been here for about a month and still have not killed this affair - because you haven't followed the exposure advice, exactly the way it is laid out.

It really IS that simple.

If you are going to this, do it right and follow the steps exactly as they have already been laid out for you, no excuses.

It doesn't matter if someone is a common friend, kind of knows, you think won't matter etc. Everyone (in accordance with the instructions in the Exposure 101 thread) should be exposed to today, Everyone.

Did you expose to this boss yourself, as is outlined in the Exposure 101 thread (in written form, with his supervisor CC'd etc)?

This tells us that 1) your wife has been confiding in men at the workplace about your marriage and personal matters and has terrible boundaries around men and 2) this boss of OM has no problem with that. If you know that he is already in an A himself, and has no problem with loose boundaries and women having personal relationships with him at work, then he is NOT an ally or friend to your marriage (or any marriage).

Hi Guys,

Yes I did expose to her supervisor which is the person directly in charge of her. Her boss that she is the assistant of already knows about it. But, I messaged him (I have his cell) and we are going to sit down and discuss this matter face to face.

I had a real crazy day yesterday. The exposure put the pressure on big time. OM was in WW's office yesterday and she was yelling and told him to leave 3 times (she already broken it off with him and he wouldn't accept it) This is from what her boss witness and told us about later. From what I gather, she made some comments after this that hinted at suicide without directly saying it. This prompted her boss to contact her best friend which in turn contacted me and my in-laws. I guess her best friend hears similar comments from WW a little over a week ago (never told me) I did not have my phone on yesterday so my in-laws came to her work to address the situation and get her out of there. The WW refused to go with them and went home on her own. I then heard about this and went to confront OM immediately at his apartment. Of course being the coward that he is he didn't answer. My father-in-law tried later in the evening with the same result. I guess my mother-in-law tried again later and was able to confront him face-to-face. I still have to speak with her today to get the details.

Then later last night I started receiving harassing calls and a death threat from what I am sure is a family member of OM. He was cautious to only threaten on the first call when I wasn't prepared to record. He blocked his caller ID and wouldn't mention specific names. But the threat was a clear: "cut the [censored] or I'll kill you, your daughters, and your in-laws" It's telling that he knew about my daughters and my in-laws and directed the threat at us only. He called back several times and he recited almost verbatim my exposure letter that I sent OM's parents ONLY. So I know it's connected to him.

I am on edge right now and trying to deal with all of this along with taking care of my WW and whatever help she needs to address what is clearly severe depression.

Sorry for the long-winded post on my latest drama.

What about HR? The ethics board? Exposing to ONE GUY is a complete BUST because it is likely he will just ignore you. He can do that because there is no one to hold him accountable. What do you mean "her boss that she is the assistant of knows about it??" Knows WHAT? FRom WHOM? Who is this person?

Will she now agree to quit her job?

Yes, very good points and I agree with both. But this boss being a friend and sort of "mentor" to the WW I still need to deal with him. I had no delusion that he was a friend or ally to my marriage. Ever since I heard about his affair a year prior to my problems, I no longer trusted, respected, or confided in him. That is why I didn't even consider putting him on the exposure list. But in talking with him briefly I now know the value of exposure. The WW was telling him big lies about the status of our relationship and not I need to have a talk with him to tell the truth.

She has not broken off with him; she sees him at work everyday!! That is like saying I have stopped drinking while I go to the bar every day and drink beer. As long as there is any contact WHATSOEVER the affair is in active mode. She has to quit the job.

Is she under the illusion that she can just keep the OM out of her office and everything will be fine? This is just a ploy to ensure she can see her lover every day at work. Your marriage cannot ever recover as long as she works there.

Techman, are you ignoring me now?

You must go to the police with your evidence. They take this stuff very seriously. It is trivial for them to find out who sent you these messages.

You need to understand that even if the workplace situation were to miraculously come under control, there would still be no effective recovery. This is because the triggers associated with this affair are going to continually pound at you so long as the conditions that made the affair possible (her job) are not mitigated. The only path to recovery is for her to leave this job. Anything less is a waste of time and effort.

Hi MelodyLane,

No I am not ignoring you and I am taking your advice in. I agree, she CANNOT work at her job anymore. There is so much instability with WW that I am just trying to sort it all out now. She came in on Monday and said she was quitting (what her boss told us)and everyone was surprised when she showed up the next day. So, with all of this flip-flopping and confusion my head is spinning.

I just got off the phone with WW (on her way to work) urging her to quit her job and find a different career. She kept on saying "I can't quit my job" until I got her to admit it's more like "I WON'T quit my job" I provided the path and told her it will be perfectly fine to quit and we have a financial buffer to rely on for a few months. She isn't accepting it right now. But I am hoping that she is going to let this all sink in and realize it's the ONLY path to follow as I said.

Sorry if I am not responding to everyone's post or am not very descriptive. I am busy at the moment trying to juggle everything and my phone is exploding with texts from friends/family talk about all of this.

Yes I was thinking about going to the police to protect my family. But it wasn't a message, it was a verbal threat. And like I mentioned, the guy was careful to not use any names and only threatened on the first call when I didn't know what this was about and wasn't ready to record. So even if the police can find out the blocked number that called me dozens of times, it's just his word versus my word at this point. No real hard evidence.

Go to the police and file a report of only to create a paper trail.

You should still file a police report. You need to create a legal record of what is going on. You are telling the truth, and that is all that is required to file the report. You don't need hard evidence. The act of filing the report reduces the probability of any real physical harm materializing from these threats.

I understand. I am busy too. I am posting yo you from a roadside stop in central Oklahoma. I am swamped at work.

I would DEMAND that she quit her job immediately or this will lead to divorce. Thoughtful requests are not going to work. You have to be a broken record.

I am still confused about the workplace exposure. Did you expose to HR? Did you expose to the ethics board? It seems to me you just exposed to her cheater boss which is an ineffective exposure.

I very much appreciate you providing me with direction from the road! To clarify the workplace exposure, so far I only exposed to her supervisor. There is a designated supervisor that manages all of the aides which in turn take care of the officials. The official my wife takes care of as an aide/secretary is whom I am referring to as her "boss" The OM is an aide for a different official but still under the same supervisor. I mentioned there was no use in exposing to the "boss" because of his morals and own workplace affair in the same office. But I realize that he was told many lies by WW that I now want to clarify. So, I am going to have a sit down and talk with him directly. Just more proof that you expose to EVERYONE! I have not yet exposed to HR or the ethics board. I was going to give WM time to recover, address these suicidal remarks, and then see what she says about voluntarily leaving her job. Does that sound like a good plan under the circumstances?

As a side note, I had a lengthy phone chat with my WW best friend yesterday after all of the drama went down. It's sickening all of the lies she was told by WW right up until only a few days ago - that she has been living with her mother for the past 5 months, that I wanted a divorce, that the new house was for me only and she was going to live in our old house, that I hadn't changed at all, etc... Any lie she could make to justify the affair! But, the best friend is sick of all the lies and realizes she should have talked to me at the beginning of this whole mess. Pretty textbook affair stuff.

I am still getting a lot of random calls on my cell phone today and was flooded with sign up confirmation emails for all sorts of nonsense - surveys, subscriptions to newsletters, porn stuff, Ashley Madison, etc... So, the scumbag is trying to harass me through my email address as well. I have to say I regret putting as much contact information as I did into my letter to OM's parents. I didn't realize they were going to be such scumbags about it. The letter was respectful and not threatening or harassing in any way. I can post for everyone to confirm. But, I guess it's good to know I am getting to them (the OM's family) I can take the harassment.

I think I am going to go and file a police report about the calls after work. But, I think that negates the ability for me to confront OM. I am sure they will instruct me to have no contact with him once I divulge the reason for the harassment and threats.

NO. I have said over and over again that this affair must be exposed at the workplace. I don't understand why you are not taking this seriously? There seems to be endless reasons why you can't or won't expose. Get er done, friend! Do not wait one more day!

If you want her to get serious, then YOU have to get serious! This is not a game. You have already squandered endless opportunities to save your marriage and right now this is a LONG SHOT because of your complacence. Your complacence has only resulted in a deeply entrenched affair. FOR ABSOLUTELY NO LEGITIMATE REASON. NONE.

My blood is boiling because it is obvious I am taking this more seriously than you. And this is your marriage!! I have a very busy full time career and a marriage and I have even pulled over at rest stops between appointments to check on you and post to you. It seems it is all a waste of my time!

Stop jacking around!! Expose this affair and stop spinning and bsing me. Just do it!

Listen, we shouldn't have to badger you to admit that you aren't following the instructions here. You're a smart guy, it's laid out very clearly and there's no need for these games.

You are very lucky that MelodyLane keeps trying to help you. Don't ABUSE that help side stepping ways to avoid telling us that YOU AREN'T FOLLOWING THE PLAN.

Of course you are free to do whatever you wish, but most posters DO NOT want to waste time helping someone who is cherry picking because it WON'T WORK.

You need to be straight here and tell us if you are going to follow Marriage Builders or Plan Tech Man.

Be fair and don't waste people's time.

If your WW threatens suicide, you should call 911, btw.

When it came to ending my wife's workplace affair with her supervisor, I made a phone call to the relevant associate director in her workplace. Up until that call, they didn't know the real story. That one exposure ended the contact. Most employers realize the liability of workplace affairs, and will act, if for no other reason, just to protect themselves. If you are serious, you will stop soft-pedaling and get on with this.

Hi Guys,

I haven't posted in a while so I figured I would provide an update on my situation. As you know reading back in this thread, I did not fully expose to all workplace contacts. I gave the WW time to find a new job and she kept dangling the carrot "wait until after the elections and I can find another job" in front of me. But, here we are months later and she is still working in her same job and having occasional exposure to OM through political events.

We were doing great for the first 2 months and we seemed to be on the track to recovery despite me not following the MB rules. But, I am now confirming this to be a false recovery as expected. The WW took a complete 180 turn on me a few weeks ago and things are just as bad as before. And of course I am beginning to find evidence of further contact with OM.

So, my plan now is to gather more evidence to confirm my suspicion and do a more massive and thorough exposure. Then it will be either Plan A with 100% compliance from WW. If I get anything less, it will be on to Plan B.

I apologize to everyone here who tried to help me and get me to follow the MB plan to the tee. But at least I figure I would post this as a warning to everyone else on this board - follow the plan as written and expose as far and wide as possible! This is your best chance of a real recovery. I now know the error of my ways.

I view this as another conflict avoidance tactic. If you read through this thread, you have a bad habit of saying you are going to do something but you can never do it NOW. As a result nothing ever gets done because you are perpetually kicking the can down the road.

You should expose the affair now. You don't need to put this off by saying you need to "gather more evidence." You have the evidence.


Your idea of "doing great" and ours is worlds apart, my friend. Your idea of "great" is conflict avoidance. Ours is marital recovery. Marital recovery cannot start until all contact has ended.

Hi Melody,

Yes you are 100% right it was about my conflict avoidance nature and resulting hesitation. But, I am DONE with that. I promise you this and I will NEVER post again on this forum and my account can be banned if I don't follow through.

I am taking time to procure more evidence should my additional work contacts I am exposing to ask for it. And, I am gathering up additional contacts - friends, professional, work/HR of the WW to make sure this is the largest exposure possible. Additionally, I have to prepare for the possibility of this ending in divorce. I have to gather evidence of the verbal/emotional abuse the WW exposes my children to. She has severe anger management and bipolar issues. So, I am going to fight for FULL custody should the WW take this route.

Don't you already have evidence?

Gathering up additional contacts takes about 2 hours. I am not sure what you mean by "prepare for divorce." The only thing you have to prepare for is her anger.

I see you putting down more needless roadblocks here. I hope that is not the case.

Why don't you follow the workplace exposure from the Exposure 101 thread? You have all the evidence you just need to expose to her work.

How many times have we told you on this thread that you just need to start following the advice outlined and stop deviating? We've told you at EVERY turn, and here we are, a couple months later....your WW is still with the OM and you are STILL deviating!

Stop this madness, Tech man. My gosh!


You don't need any more evidence. You already have evidence and she admitted it to you.


You've already HAD time to prepare for D - you told us your WW filed and moved out with the kids at one point so this D idea is not new to you. So this just sounds like more stalling. It is not a legitimate reason to delay exposure.

Besides the reason your WW is probably acting crazy/angry is because she's wayward and in the throes of an affair. That's NORMAL.

Also, and you can talk to a lawyer about being concerned with your WW's anger, but I have to tell you, getting "evidence" of your WW acting angry isn't going to get you full custody. You should just plan to get 50-50, MAYBE primary unless there is evidence of drug abuse or real physical abuse on the part of your WW.

Looking back on this thread it is crazy how many excuses you have come up with to keep delaying this step!

Yes, I know now I shouldn't have deviated or hesitated. I know it was my own doing that I delayed this long and greatly diminished my chances of recovering from this affair. But, I am going to try one last time doing it the right way!

I needed time to get GPS tracking in place so I could confirm what WW is doing and so I have it in the future. I meant "prepare for divorce" as in that could be the end result of her fury over exposure. But, I don't care at this point. Exposure needs to be done the right away and I am delaying no more.

The GPS tracking showed me that WW parked at a local "park and ride" bus stop location before going downtown. So, it seems like she is back to her old habit of driving to work with OM. I am going to try to catch them in the act dropping off this evening and confront OM. Then, tonight the exposure starts. No more delaying and no more excuses!

Nobody told you to confront the OM before exposing. Where did you see that in the instructions on this site? Confronting can come AFTER exposure.

Sigh.

Yes, I am aware that confronting OM BEFORE exposing was never mentioned on this site. I didn't really see much of anything on the topic of confronting OM/OW on this site. Remember, I did previously expose everywhere excluding WW workplace. So, I did expose to OM's family and friends on FB. This caused the harassment I was receiving a few months ago. I just figured I would take the opportunity while I knew where he was going to be. I don't have a lot of time to stalk outside OM's apartment until I can catch him leaving. I have knocked on his door before and of course he won't answer as I have tried in the past.

Well to make a long story short, I missed the chance to confront WW and OM in the act back on 11/21. But, I confronted her with the evidence once she came back home that night. I then proceeded with FULL exposure on 11/22 to her friends, all family I could find, and her workplace contacts (supervisor, boss, ethics board) as well as several political contacts of the WW. Of course she was furious and left for a day/night to spend at a friend's house (verified) Then, she came back and I took a day off from work to talk with her. I gave her the option of staying with me to build a romantic relationship provided that she meet MY conditions. She reluctantly agreed to everything - Quitting her job immediately, no more contact with OM, open transparency and sharing ALL passwords and means of communication, working on our marriage through the MB plan, and sharing all affair details I wanted to know.

So far over the past few weeks, she has been complying. She did quit her job immediately and I helped her clean out her desk over this past weekend. She has been job searching and taking care of things at home. I asked her to read my copy of SAA but she hasn't as of yet. I am going to press her over the next few days now that things have settled. I also intend to ask her to fill out the needs questionnaire.

Is there anything else I am missing at this point? I would still like to confront OM as he slipped away a few weeks ago and I need to do this for my own sanity.

The WW is still in a bad mood where she is holding ME responsible for everything. She is somewhat reckless with our finances now saying "you figure it out now" like she is punishing me financially because I demanded she leave her job. I also worry about her being home all day by herself which gives her more opportunities to slip back to her wayward ways. There haven't been any signs of her trying to work on our marriage over the past week. So far, it has only been me doing all of the work and her stating her resentment towards me.

There is information from Dr. Harley on contacting the OM.
"I encourage BHs to contact OM" Dr. Harley

Listen to the clips in both threads.
Don't put up with OM per Dr. Harley

Did your WW write a NC letter to OM?

What has been done from the list?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Thanks BrainHurts! I appreciate the link to the thread about confronting OM. I missed it because it's a bit old. Perhaps I'll bump it after my experience. One of the last posts in that thread sums up precisely how I feel about it:

"OM is probably terrified of you, he's counting on not having to deal with you or any other consequences for his actions. He is a coward that is disrespecting you in the worst possibly way behind your back. Don't let him get away with doing that to you and never having to answer to you. If you leave him alone, you'll regret it for the rest of your life, even if you don't save your marriage. Defend your wife's honor!"

I want to show OM the consequences and let him know he is going to have to deal with me cause I will fight to the bitter end for my marriage. It's already eating me up inside that I haven't confronted OM yet and would be a nice "nail in the coffin" of the affair.

As for the NC letter, the WW sent one via email to OM about a week after D-day back in August. I composed it with her and we both sent it via email. But, should this be done a second time seeing that there has been contact and a "re-ignite" of the affair since then? If so, should this be done before or after I confront OM face to face?

All items from the list have been completed. We are working on making more leisure/ UA time together (hard to do with 2 kids) But, we don't spend any time apart anymore.

With reference to the above leisure time, I still get a lot of resistance from WW. For example, tonight is my work Christmas Party. She refused to go up until the last minute. And, now she is acting like she is going to make me miserable because I am "dragging" her out with me. I think it has to do with the fog not yet being lifted. While we had our talk to work things out and get her on board with our marital recovery and openness, WW said "but I still love him" referring to OM. So, I assume that is going to take about a month of NC with OM before this starts subsiding? I guess I am just going to try my best to fill her love bank in the meantime.

Techman, you are absolutely right, it will take time for her to withdraw. Just keep doing what you are doing and try to persuade her out on dates with you. Family time is also good for warming her up. The key will be to ensure no contact because every contact will put you both back to day 1 of recovery.

Thanks Melody! I am very grateful for all of the help you and the other members have given me. I know I am still far from recovery. But, I feel I am headed in a good direction thanks to all of your help and advice! I can't begin to thank you enough for helping me even though I was my own worst enemy at times.

Here's to hoping that I can look back at this years from now with a full recovery!

Do you still have spyware on her devices to confirm NC?

I did, but WW changed her passwords about a month ago and killed it. Now that I have her passwords provided per our openness and honesty agreement, I am going to update it. Then I can continue to monitor and confirm NC. I also still have the tracker on the car. I have the VAR at the ready should I need to place it anywhere.

So, I will certainly monitor and verify NC. It has me worried now that she has a lot more free time sitting at home. But hopefully she can find another job soon.

Even more of a reason to make sure you have spyware in place.