My wife and I married for 17 years. Me 44 and WW is 39 y.o. We have a 14 years old son. I am unemployed since June.

I am not sure at which stage our marriage is at. Are we recovering from infidelity or are we passed from resentment to negotiation stage. We can be even in intimacy or false recovery state. I am very confused about what to do next. Please help. If I am posting to wrong forum please excuse me.

Here is a summary about our regular life: We both work for long hours and traffic is very terrible in our city. My wife has a very stressful job. We both usually drive 1.5 - 2 hours to go to work (we live in Istanbul). As a result we have very little time for conversation. Not more than 1 hour for each 5 working days. We weren't very happy but I thought we were ok. Repeatedly I was complaining about the lack of time that we spend together and I said I don't like her to spend most of time on her smartphone. She is spending her free time in social media and goes out with her girl friends at the weekends. We argued too many times about my concerns and she blamed me for not giving her space. I know her group. 4 girls and all single! 3 of them are divorced and one is lesbian. After many discussions at least I convinced her to spend Friday evenings at home together. And I told her I don't like her to spend the all night with her friends when we don't feel intimacy for eachother. No need to mention lack of SF as a result.

After loosing my job I found time to think about how can we do better. We had sent our son to his grandmother for summer. I told my wife that it is a very good opportunity for us to spend more time together, talk and have fun and make things better. But she consistently said that she needs time to think if she want me anymore and asked me to go to my mothers summer house until she will join us on 09th of September. She has severe AO problem. But I wasn't always able to control my self when she attacked me physically. I easily calm down and forgive her. But my problem is much more serious because I had hit her three times in the first years of our marriage and she couldn't forget and forgive me since. I read articles and thought a lot on anger management and I am sure that we won't have similar incidents again. When we have arguments I can control myself since many years (may be 10). I thought that we were completely recovered but once in a while I raise my voice during argument and she reminds me the past incidents and threatens me with divorce. I have nothing to say to her because what I had done was unacceptable. All I could do is try convince that it is not possible for me to hurt her physically any more. I tried to negotiate but she looked so resentful recent days so I agreed to go to summer house. I searched articles in internet and then I came across MB web site. I have made a plan to pull her back to intimacy state. I have hid an audio streamer into the kitchen where we usually spend most of our time. Then I went to mother's summer house (700km away) and started listening the home remotely. On the very first evening her "best" friend (divorced) from the group came and they started to drink and talk about friends affair. And then the turn has come to our marriage. While listening I have found that my wife has an EA with a guy on instagram and her friend and sister knows and approves this relationship. I was devastated. I continued to listen if there is an evidence of PA. She cried "I love him" once - may be with the effect of alcohol- but I couldn't find any evidence of PA. My first thought was that she had sent me to summer house so she would be able to meet OM. I was upset and very angry.... I tried to calm down for hours. After reading MB site I have decided that it was my fault. I had neglected her ENs for a long time in the past. and if I want to be happy with her I have to be honest about spying on her and in order to prevent the affair going any further ...I called her. I told her that I have heard every thing they spoke and that I was devastated. I was waiting for an apology but she got very angry for what I did. She said it is nothing serious and she had never met him in the real world. I wish I had read the infidelity subject on MB before the that night. She promissed not to contact him again. I wrote him via instagram DM not to contact my wife ever again. at first he blocked me and then deleted his account. Me and wife both cried all night on the phone. I tried to learn how far it has gone. She told me that they had started 1 or 2 months before and it is limitted to instagram chat. I wasn't aware of the necessity of exposure. I was away from her and I asked her to delete her account and everything related to him. Now I see that might be a big mistake but I had thought that removing any reminders was best thing to do then. So I have no evidence of the EA.

During the next week we both calmed down and she told me that she loves me but she was still not sure if she want to stay married with me ... and she assured that this has nothing to do with the OM. I am convinced (stupid?). I know that I didn't do right things about her infidelity but I think it is too late now. Months before we had planned a three days vacation to a greek island with two couples. We had an amazing vacation. Maximum intimacy, affection and SF. It was really great. I told her about the MB site and she pissed of again. She blamed me for not understanding her EN before and she didn't find my efforts sincere. Any way, she agreed on POJA (with remarks) and PORH. I asked her if she wanted me at home. She said she need more time alone and would feel better if I stay in the summer house till Septemer 9 as agreed before. She assured me OM is not an issue anymore and if I am too bored alone I could come to home but she is so pissed of that I had spyed on her, she would prefer that I stay in the summer house. I convinced myself that their affair is all over and she would miss me.
Now I am at the summer house in Izmir and she is in Istanbul. After the perfect vacation nearly everything seems ok. She still sometimes says she is pissed off about my spying on her but I tell her that I want 100% transparency and honesty and she agrees that.

Here are my questions:
[1] I didn't do proper things about her infidelity. and I am afraid it is too late to convince her to follow MB way. Should I expect the best and be alert about the infidelity? Or should I create a plan to resolve conflicts and restore love to our marriage?
[2] At this point should I expose infidelity? I don't want to hurt her and I believe she won't contact him again. I have forgiven her.
[3!!!] I am 99% sure that affair is over but should I spy on her secretly? Or should I tell her that she should give all her passwords to me and give full access to her phone? Both looks very risky to me. This question is urgent because she will come here two days later on 09 September. And I still not sure what to do.

NOTES: Many of the couples which I know personally near our ages are divorced or at least thinking divorce seriousy. I wish they had access to a MB like site. I want to help in translating eng->tur MB web site or the books if there is such a motivation on your side. (I am much better at translating eng->tur ;-) Thanks for maintaining such a helpful site and I wish it is not too late for me.

First, you need to return home to your wife. Being away from her overnights like this is giving her a green light for her affair. It also shows her that you don't care much about her, to find out she is having an affair and not even bother coming home to fight for her. Finally, how are you possibly going to meet her EN's if you are far away? Go home.

Second, you absolutely 100% should be secretly monitoring her. You are disregarding the addictive nature of an affair, even an online EA. You heard her say she loved him. Clearly she is emotionally invested and addicted. She cannot be trusted right now.

Do some research on Instagram guy. Does he have a Facebook page or any other social media? Can you find out if he is married?

As long as she is in an affair, you cannot resolve conflicts and restore love to your marriage. You need to kill the affair first.

Dear unwritten,
First, I totally agree with you after reading MB articles. I wish I hadn't regard what my wife told. I should have returned home immediately. But it is too late. She's coming here on Saturday evening. And after that we will be at home whole winter

Second, although I want to be honest with her, I will apply your suggestion. I believe you have witnessed many cases like this.

I searched all over the internet for two days. I only could find his Instagram account. WW told me that he is also married. I said I want to inform his wife about the affair. But couldn't find any link.
Since I don't have any evidence what do you think about exposure? Should do it?

All I want is someone to say: "hey stupid. Stop disregarding her. Go home, love your woman and everything will be OK. We are dealing much more serious problems here. And yours is not so challenging. You'll handle it yourself". Please someone say so.

Nobody is going to say that here. You 'loving your woman' is not going to make an affair go away. There is no problem more serious in a marriage than an affair.

Keep searching. It is possible he is just some catfish with a made up instagram account. But keep searching until you have exhausted all your resources.

Dr Harley says that you should have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt before exposing an affair. I would set up more snooping techniques and if further evidence is gained, secretly store it for an exposure. What is your plan for snooping?

Have you read anything about Plan A? Plan A is basically wooing your wife back into the marriage, presenting yourself as the best option to her AP (this done while simultaneously fighting the affair). Fill her needs, avoid all lovebusters, present yourself in the best light possible. It sounds like you have neglected her for quite some time. What are your plans to change that?

I know that very well ;.-(
It is good to know that someone is hearing me. Thank you very much.

About 1.5 hours ago she told me that she's just arrived at home. I was cooking at that moment. After the dinner I phoned her how she's doing. She was at her best friends house. She told me that her friend was sick and she wanted to visit her for 5 minutes. I told her I am curious about her and it would be better if she told me that she would visit her friend. It has passed 1.5 hours after she said that she arrived at home. I have mentioned about that. She blamed me for being paranoid about it and said that she was walking our dog before she visited her friend. And we argued about it.
One moment everything seems so perfect and just after five minutes every thing is so fragile. I am the most patient and strong person I have ever known. At least I belived so until today. But this is the most difficult times I have ever had.

Yes I have read all the articles and letters in the MB web site. My plan is to apply plan A. With the exception that I don't feel ok about exposing her infidelity. I totally agree that my ignorance is the reason for her betrayal. I forgive her for that. But this doesn't m mean that I approve what she did. She ruined my world,my honor, my tinny fragile self confidence. She called me a few minutes ago and apologized for not informing me about her visit. But it sounded more like she was angry about she felt like I am questioning her.

PS. My call was a video call. She was indeed in her friends house. Her friend was in her bed. And her ex-husband were also there for support.

You need to move back home immediately and make sure you completely eliminate anger from your life. Don't raise your voice during arguments. Don't argue! No more anger.

Emotional affairs are as damaging to marriage as a physical affair. Here's a list of how to survive an affair the right way from Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair:

The Harleys often say that there are reasons for affairs but there are no excuses. Infidelity is one of the worst things one spouse can to do the other, because it causes so much pain in the betrayed spouse. Marriage Builders does not advocate forgiveness, but rather Just Compensation. Forgiveness means the person owes nothing to you, that the slate is wiped clean. But the unfaithful spouse can actually DO something to make things better - she can participate in a program of marital recovery and help make the marriage better than it ever was in the past.

Although exposure may seem counterproductive, it is actually very helpful for several reasons. First, it will help make your wife accountable to those around her. Sure, there are some who won't care or who even encourage infidelity, but those are people you don't need in your recovered marriage. Second, you will gain some much needed emotional support throughout what will likely turn out to be the most painful experience of your life.

Thank you for your response longwayfromhome,
Stupid of me... I have been waiting for four weeks for her to come. Harm has already been done. I think waiting two days more will change nothing. At last I'll reunite her soon.

I'll surely do and enforce her to do every thing on the list.

Am I too optimistic to think that every thing will be OK?

We don't feel it is ok to skip vital steps. Do you want to save your marriage or not? Because your greatest weapon is exposure. You can't say you want to get well and then refuse to take the medicine. That makes no sense.


Inappropriate, fake "forgiveness" is not ineffective. What is called for her just compensation to you. The reason she had an affair is because she has poor boundaries around men and was probably trolling for action. If she had not done that, she wouldn't have had an affair.


You really need to go home and just surprise her. Stop acting suspicious and start working on getting the evidence.

Your wife is having an affair, it will be easy to get the evidence and expose the affair. That is your only chance at recovery. Keeping the affair a secret will only fuel the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret only helps the affair.

I have been writing for the last 15 minutes. But some how stupid phone lost them all. I have been waiting waiting for four weeks (stupidly) for her to come. The has already been done. Waiting two more days will change nothing. She'll be with me on Saturday. I will do everything Saa suggests. And encourage her to comply. Am I too optimistic?

Why would you wait one more day? I don't understand, did you leave home or did she?


Don't show her the list. First get the evidence of her affair and expose the affair.


If you won't expose and follow the steps of this program, I would call this hopeless. Your wifes affair has been going on for a long time and is very entrenched. You have a slim chance IF you will follow these steps.

Why are you waiting?

Marital recovery is a narrow road and takes both spouses all in to create a wonderful, safe and romantic marriage that is better than before. While it's great to be optimistic and hopeful, don't take any shortcuts or skip steps.

Thank you melodylane. You remind me my dentist That medicine will hurt me and wife very much. But I trust your experience. That's why I go to dentist. It will be painful but is necessary to heal. I know the value of a good dentist. And I find your suggestion very valuable. And I am also aware that MB suggest that I expose infidelity without her knowledge. That's very hard for me. I have to explain it to myself.

You got it! Exposure is therapeutic to your wife and your marriage. Just look at it like that. Every recovered marriage on this forum attributes it to exposure. But first, you have to go home and get the evidence of the affair.

But what if she really ended the affair? What if I can't find any evidence that it's been continuing? Wouldn't it be very bad to expose a past affair? I really don't want to insult my wife for nothing. It is so painful for me. I am crying at the moment.

If I find any evidence I won't hesitate to expose it even a second. But what if she is innocent? I really believe that is so.

Oh no, even a past affair must be exposed. Why are you upset? You want to help your wife, don't you? If she was a heroin addict, wouldn't you want to get her therapy? That is exactly what exposure is.

And her affair is not over. She has been having an affair this whole time.

It is not so. I understand you WANT to believe that. But you need to face the truth.

I bought a flight ticket to home for tonight. I'll surprize her. I'll tell her that I'm not confortable for being away and I don't want her to drive 700+ km alone on 08 September night. I am sure that she will piss off and say that I came to bust her on action. I hope it worths.

I'll try to get evidence from her attitutes and from her phone. Untill then I will have serious hesitations for exposure.

Her "attitude" is not evidence. You need rock solid evidence. WE didn't tell you to expose without evidence.

Our goal is to help you save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all cost. If she says you are trying to bust her, then that should tell she is doing something she can be busted FOR, right?

However she responds to your surprise arrival, you need to not argue about anything. It takes two people to argue. When you argue, you make the OM look so great! Is that what you want, to make him look great?

When you arrive home, tell your wife you love her and missed her and are sorry for agreeing to the marriage wrecking behavior of being away all summer, and that you are not going to leave her side again.

What is your plan for snooping?

I want to ask permission to inspect her phone. If she doesn't allow me I'll install webwatcher while she is sleeping.

I know you won't approve this.

Or I I'll try to inspect her phone while she is sleeping. If I suspect anything I'll install webwatcher.

I haven't decided yet. I've got 5 hours to decide.

I already told her I feel regret for listening to her. But she told me we'd better stay away from each other for a while

It is a silly idea to ask her to look at her phone. She will just get into the habit of deleting anything incriminating and then you will never know. You need to think more strategically if you want to save your marriage. The first step is to find the truth. If you can get the truth, you have a small chance of saving your marriage. Don't let on that you are suspicious at all and quietly install webwatcher.

Instead of relying upon your own inexperience, please let us help you. Your best thinking got you into this mess; it won't get you out because you have no experience. Please just accept that simple truth so you can move forward.

The answer should be no. You post like she is your momma and you are a boy. You are a grown man who does not take orders from your wife. Don't be a cuck.

OK. I'll follow MB way.

I have arrived at home about an hour ago (around 01:00 local time). She looked very happy and excited to me. We were busy withtelling how much we missed and love each other and we made love. I few minutes ago she went back to sleep.

So what's next?

Did you read our posts?

Yes. I'm sorry. I was exhausted last night. We both couldn't sleep till the morning.

I'll first check if she has a password and then wait for an opportunity to install webwatcher.
The problem is the phone is almost always with her because of her job (even in the bathroom). She makes hundreds of phone calls every day. It'll be very hard to find the opportunity. I think my best chances are when she has gone for swimming or sleeping.
Have you got any suggestions?

I did as you said. No evidence so far.

The beginning of our 10 days of vacation was very satisfying. But the last week I felt a little distance. And we didn't have sex for 10days.

I have some questions:
1. I want to put a VAR into her car. Do you have any suggestions where to hide the VAR? (regarding noise, clear records, etc.)
2. She wants to Italy with her two sisters for a vacation. I said it is possible only if I would come also. She and sisters insisted in going that vacation without husbands. We postponed the issue. What should I do?

You said that you have no evidence but have you been snooping? What are you doing?

You can purchase a voice activated recorder and Velcro it in a place where she talks on the phone, such as under her car seat or under a desk. You also need spyware on her phone and computer.

I would never agree to her going on a vacation without you. Bad for your marriage.

I have no evidence. Yes. But at the moment she is supposed to be in a meeting. But she is out.

What spyware do you have in place?

I just checked Google+ location. She said she would attend a meeting. But she looks like she is at a shopping mall.

Step #1 get to work on your spying! You need spyware on her phone. If you know she is someplace she is not supposed to be then why aren't you there? GPS is useless if you aren't going to follow up and find out what she is doing. You have to get hard evidence of an affair.

Could you recommend an alternative to webwatcher? Full set does not look affordable for me. At least my wife might recognize the difference in our account balance.

What kind of phone does she have? Have you checked out the Operation Investigate forum?

If money is a big issue, you coukd try what I did. Get a cheap cell phone from Walmart and download a voice recorder app on it and a tracking app and tape it under her car seat and anywhere else you can think of. I bought one for about $25 and it works perfectly. The apps were free too.

I didn't pay for any minutes though, so the tracking app woukd only show up whenever she got within range of the home wifi. But it was good because it would store everywhere she went that day and I could pull it up when she got home. Or for a few dollars every month you could activate the service and see her in real time.

I did that last night.

Urgent Please !!!
Last night I have placed a VAR (old android phone with VAR software) in her car. And While I was inspecting her phone I have found that OM is from a company that they work together. I woke her and asked if she was with him at the mal. After hiding the truth for a while she confessed that she was with him at the mall after work. :.(

When I asked what is she thinking to do. First she said she wanted to come back to me .. I kept on inspecting her phone . She resisted and started to say that she doesn't want to quit and she want divorce.

Now she headed to work (I believe so) besides I can't track via google+. I guess she turnd off her location.

What should I do? Please help.

All I have read at MB site flew from my mind. I am in panic.

Please help.

She called a few minutes ago. and she said that she will do her urgent job and come home to talk about divorce. she said she doesn't want me anymore.

I have exposed to her family (parents and sisters). God help me.

She phoned. She wants me to leave the house. She will call an attorney. Please I need advice.

I have exposed to his boss and a coworker.
Please help me with exposure to our son

Don't leave the house, of course. Just finish your exposures. Is the OM married? Call his wife and tell her.mYou should expose to his family and friends via his Facebook page. Hopefully you read my exposure thread.

Did you read the exposure thread?

Exposing to Children

And read this.
Men Don't Leave your Home

I have completed exposure except for OM side. I'll do it as soon as I get contact information. She is pissed off and wants me to leave home. We agreed on staying in separate rooms till I get a job. We agreed do separate after I get a job. I hope to I will convince her to be together since than.

Her boss and family backed her up. I don't know what to do next.

How did your case end?

Her boss and family endorse adultery? That is an odd reaction. I would get your exposures to the OM's family completed TODAY before it is too late.

I think some didn't believe that there is an affair and some give credit to her because she says she is not happy with me.

How did you expose? Are you following exposure as it is outlined in the exposure 101 thread?

It is important right now that you keep a cool head and stick with a plan. You do not want to trickle expose willy nilly in a frantic emotional state. You need to get exposure to the OM's side done TODAY. Now that you have already started exposure, your WW and OM are scrambling to do damage control and will expose first with a story that they spin if you do not get it done asap. This is why the exposure 101 thread says to get ALL of your exposure targets ready first and to expose in one fell swoop.

Your WW is in panic, damage control mode. You need to be the opposite. You need to be calm and collected. Can you do that?

Do not leave the house. Do not agree to a separation or divorce if that is not what you want. Do not agree to leave the house today or in the near future. She is a grown woman and can leave the house if she wants to, but she cannot force you to leave the house.

Do not go along with her plans to separate or divorce. Simply tell her that you are not interested in discussing separation or divorce, that you love her and are interested only in her ending her affair and creating a great marriage.

Did she confess to you she is having an affair? Do you have evidence? What did you say to these people to whom you exposed?

I wrote an exposure message very similar to the exposure 101 thread. I was in panic so I forgot to find the contact from OM side. At the moment I am working on it.

Yes she confessed. But unfortunatelly the only evidence that I have is audio records of her confession. I believe that OM came to our house when I was away. I'll inspect the building security video records tomorrow.

OM deleted al his social network accounts. I am trying https://archive.org/web/ and cached pages by google. found nothing. I had found his deleted instagram, twitter and facebook usernames but I couldn't get his wifes contact. Perhaps someone can help me with this.

I also have OMs phone number, gmail, and work email.

Did you do a search for his wife on facebook? Do you have the OM's home address? Did you check peoplefinder.com? You need to get in front of his wife ASAP. You can't afford to dawdle on this. You can drive to his house and expose to his wife.

As far as exposure to the boss? What about exposure to HR? I would go have a meeting with them and show them all your evidence. You NEED to confirm that the OM came to your home. I am sure he was there many times.

You have a very small window of opportunity to rain hell down on this affair. The window is closing as we speak. An affair with a boss is easy to kill if you are aggressive and proactive. You are luckier than most in that you have actual leverage IF YOU WILL USE IT. But you must act fast and act aggressively.

I don't know her name. My wife does't give any info about her. No address. Peoplefinder does not work for Turkey.

It is a small company of 12 people. everybody learnt about the affair. The boss said he doesn't approve what she did and doesn't want her to quit her job. So far this is the only positive thing ever happened.

I am waiting for her deep sleep. Using the Fonepaw software I'll try to get info about his wife from the deleted whatsapp messages. It is 23:09 here. I want to wait till 2AM

Do you know the Om's home address?

no

How can you find it? I feel like I am pushing a car up the hill with the parking brake on. And its not even my marriage!

WHAT are you doing to find the OM's wife??

Melody Lane I have slept 1 night during last 7 days. Searching for PA affair evidence and trying to find OM's wife.
In VAR records she says to her girl friend that she would bare me for 5 more months because affair evidence will time out by then. She is unoffically consulting an attorney friend. I don't know if she is serious. She talked with her sisters and some friend and told bad things about me. Blamed be because of exposure.

Last night I told her that her not being honest will wreck me down more than a PA. I asked her if there had been any PA and she confessed that they had sex two times. I thanked her for being honest but she got angry that I was bearing this situation.


She told me that she has no intentions about contacting OM again but I can't believe that.

I struggled with the buildings camera recorder all day ... but files were corrupted

Should I ask her if she is really waiting for that 5 months to pass for divorce.
Should I consult an attorney?
Can I expect she is honest with me? I need to believe that she is honest since she had confessed PA. Despite everything that happened I love her but I feel like she is mercilessly trying to destroy me.

Most of the times (like last night) I feel like she is completely honest with me when we talk. But the day before she was making fun of me when talking with her sisters and friends. I feel like I'm going insane. Trying to collect evidence while expecting her being honest... and not being sure if she is honest.

is she making fun of me because she doesn't want to look guilty among her friends? and is she really honest with me and playing role to her friends?

Here is what you can expect with 100% certainty: she is NOT being honest with you.

She is not honest or trustworthy right now. She is in an affair fog. I know it might seem that confessing to a PA means she is being honest, because how much worse can it get? But it is 100% standard procedure for some one in an affair, and even after in recovery, to trickle truth and only give little bits of information at a time.

What you should do now is get the full name of the OM and find out where he lives and expose the affair. Go read my exposure 101 thread and start making plans to expose it.

Please stop getting distracted by all this nonsense and focus on your plan to saVe your marriage. You now have the evidence, which is her confession. The next step is expose to his wife, your family and friends and kill this affair.

Confession is evidence. You will want to keep snooping to see what she is doing, but you have the evidence to expose now.

After listening VAR records I can't smile at her anymore. I feel terrible urge to tell her its reason

Can you explain?

I did.

Because I want to ask about the contradiction between the things that she said to me and to her sisters.

I messed up everything. Again she says she can't live with my spying on her everytime. She says I won't be able to forgive her ever. I say my paranoia will pass in time. But she says she does not want to bear with that.

Did you expose her affair? Did you reach the OM's wife? Did you expose to his contacts? Do they work together?

And tell her you won't have to spy if she stops hiding things. Your "paranoia" will go away ONLY if she stops her marriage wrecking behavior. If she wants your paranoia to end she will have to earn your trust. Will she do that?

And of course you won't "forgive" her. That is inappropriate.

Did you expose her affair? Did you reach the OM's wife? Did you expose to his contacts? Do they work together?

And tell her you won't have to spy if she stops hiding things. Your "paranoia" will go away ONLY if she stops her marriage wrecking behavior. If she wants your paranoia to end she will have to earn your trust. Will she do that?[/quote]
I have exposed to her family, boss and and close friends. All of them says they will be with her what ever decision she will make about divorce or recover. I'll expose OM's wife as soon as I get her contact. Her boss will not let them contact again. They don't work together anymore.

She agreed to never contact OM.
But she said she doesn't want me anymore.

According to Dr. Harvey's article "can't we just forgive and forget" I told her I will forgive her but it will take time and she should response to my recovery attempts. But she refuses recover since last night.

She says she can't live with me any more, even if we will be together again she wants separation, she won't marry me or anyone again, she doesn't want to be committed to any marriage, she wants her freedom and her own happiness.

Just to days ago we had agreed to try again.
But now,
It looks like there is no chance to be together again.

Do you think there is a chance?

What should I beg her any try to convince her to try again?
Should I try to convince her to be just friends in the same house?
When she wants to separate should I say won't leave house, and if she wants a separation she should leave?

Can you advise me to read forum threads similar to my situation and ending happily?

He says in the article you should not forgive her. here

I would advise you to expose the affair. Are you reading my posts to you? The advice we are giving you is the same as the advice on all the other threads. The advice won't change from thread to thread.

Reposting. Did you read this?

Finish exposure.

Her not wanting to be with you is her anger at you blowing up her affair. Get exposure done. She will get over her anger.

Do not beg, never beg, being needy is not attractive and a big turn off for the WW.

Just keep plan A'ing her and never leave the house.

Her staying in the house gives you the most opportunity to make LB deposits. She wants separation you just say I am not leaving the house and then change the subject.

I can't remember anyone particular thread. Though I have been here a long time and have seen many BH's pull victory from the jaws of defeat. The thing all these BH's did in common was a complete, through, done ASAP exposure.

Then Plan A their butts off.

You follow the standard MB game plan and you have a great chance at being the victor.

We have given the same advice on thousands of threads on this forum and that is to expose the affair. The REASON she wants to separate is so she can conduct her affair. Your job is to remove that REASON by killing the affair. You kill the affair by exposing it.

Can you see any hope?

Only if you can expose the affair. If you can't do that, then I don't see this blowing over.

Thank you. I will go on searching for his wife for exposure. And I will expose to OM's boss. I believe exposing did no good so far... Except for exposing to my wife's boss.
At this moment it looks like I have noting to loose. So I will proceed with exposure.

Thank you for your efforts.

By the way in exposure letter I didn't provide any evidence. Do you think I should? No one contacted me. They all look supporting my wife. I'm all alone except for you... Thank you guys.

My wife said if I hadn't exposed to her parents there would be a chance for our marriage.

Can it be true?

A trickle exposure is not very effective.

To whom have you exposed so far? What did you tell them? Did you follow the guidelines on the exposure thread?

I have exposed to her sisters, father, boss and her close friends. I sent whatsapp message to her mother but father has deleted it. Her mother doesn't know. I only have my mother but we don't see each other much. One or twice a year. I thought that she would have no effect on her so Ididn't exposed to my mother.

In summary the message I had sent is below:
_________________________________
I'm writing this message because you have an important place in our lives. As some of you know some time ago my wife was talking about our temporary separation and insisting on my going to a vacation so she could think about our marriage. There was no fight or serious problems in our marriage. Our marriage was some times boring and some times fun. So Icouldn't understand her wish. I told her that I am working on making our marriage happier(for MB readers: I was reading MB site then... because I was feeling there was something wrong with her).

While I was away I have learnt that she has an EA with a married man. She told me that it is nothing and and she was just about to finish the affair. But today Ihave learnt that they are meeting after work when she says she is attending a meeting.

I believe she had sent me to a vacation so she could be with him.

Please do what ever you can to convince her to end this affair. Otherwise there is no chance for our marriage. Please help her to do the right thing.

Despite what had happened Ilove my wife and I want to be with her
____________________________________

I was sad and I was in panic. I have searched for OM's wife but Icould't find her. In order not to loose time. Ihave exposed only the to the people I mentinoned above. If I tell her mom now Ithink she will think that Iam trying to destroy her life.

The first thing you should do is call or visit her mother immediately and ask for her help. Ask her to use her influence to persuade her daughter to end her affair. You must also tell these people the NAME of the OM, his position and his marital status. And stop calling this an "EA," it is an AFFAIR. And yes, it is sexual.

Find the OM's wife and expose to her. Expose to his employer. Does he have a facebook page? Expose to your own mother, too. Wrap this up!

You also need to be more factual. Say:

My WW is having an affair with a married man named XXXXXXX. WW has admitted her affair with this man. I have every reason to believe she brought him into our home when I was home.

Is it ok to just phone her mother mother?
Actually she confessed PA. She says she told only to her sisters and best friend.

WW's lie all the time.

WW's lie about how they told about the affair. The reason they do that is to stop you from telling those she "claimed" to of exposed. WW's never out themselves.

Sorry I misses that you said "call or visit".
When I wrote this exposure message I didn't know about PA. Should I write an update message?

Yea, you can call her mother and call those sisters and her best friend. What are you doing to find the OMs wife?

From the VAR records I have learnt her name. I got two phone numbers for the same name/surname. I will call numbers and ask if their husbands name is xxxx and working at xxxx company. Since it is weekend now, she is most probably with her husband. Sould I call her immdietaly or wait for monday when OM is at work?

Call her now. Don't give him more time to spin the story.

WW said she will leave home for an indefinite time. She is looking for an apartment now. I did everything to convince her to stay except for arguing about separation. She looks very determined.

Did you get ahold of her mother? The OM's wife? Her sisters and her friend?

I talked with her on of sisters. the other one was supporting their affair. the sister talked begged me not to tell her mother.

I'll call OM's wife to day. We are at home with WW. I don't want her to attack me because of calling OM's wife. I'll call in a few hours when Igo to shopping.

Her mother was lenf cancer two years ago. She totaly recovered but I don't want to upset her.

ARe you kidding me? So you don't think the mother will be "upset" when you end up divorced [where you are headed now!] because you failed to ask her for help? Do you know we have had affairs KILLED by a WS's parents? You can't afford to skip any step and need her help.

EVERYONE SHOULD BE UPSET. Her daughter needs her help and so do you. You have no valid reason to not tell her. Do you want to save your marriage or not? Cherry picking exposure targets because you don't want people to be "upset" is a poor excuse to skip steps. EVERYONE SHOULD BE UPSET!!

That sister knows that the mother won't support the affair. They are enablers of your wife's affair.


good!! And call everyone else you have skipped on your list.

EXPOSURE:
I've talked with OM's HR department. They are interested and asked for evidence. I have sent whatsapp screenshots and said I will send any further evidence if they need.
I have sent a mail to OM's wife with some whatsapp screenshots and my number. It will arrive tomorrow. I got only OM's address and phone number.
I have talked with WW's sister again and she said they talked with WW and she's determined to divorce.

PLAN A:
I am trying to show my care and love for her. But she doesn't respond. She looks very depressed. She said she won't leave the house this week. I don't have a job at the moment and I think she is thinking about the financial problems if she moves to another aprtment.
What should I do?

She doesn't respond... how can I apply Plan A?

She doesn't ask for forgiveness. All I can say to her how much I love her, I still want a happy marriage with her and I will forgive her when I decide that affair is comletely over and she makes effort to repair our marriage.

Is there any hope?

Ok, I would drive to the OMs house and speak to the omw in person. You can't take the chance that she will get your mail. What about exposure to everyone else? Her parents, family, friends?

WHAT ABOUT HER MOTHER?

I'll call WW's mother in the morning (4am here). WW is 39 and I am 44. Exposure seems not to work since she wants independence and all of her friends and familiy respects and supports her decisions. They have no influence on her. I believe affair has ended and OM is not an issue anymore (at least for now)

We have talked after she came home from work. She wasn't depressed like yesterday. We sleep together and hug eachother and she let me kiss her from the cheek only. She says she loves me and she cares about me but not as a husband ... she loves me as a friend. She wants to be alone for a while. I said it sounds like she wants to be together with OM again. She said she has nothing to to with him anymore. She said she wasn't serious with him and she was thinking of a divorce for a while, exposure of the affair just helped her to decide determination to divorce. She doesn't expect me to forgive her. She just accepts that the thing she's done is not fair and she is sorry. I told her we are passing through bad days and we are both numbed and I asked her to give a chance and some time to our marriage. She says her mind is clear and she is determined.

I told her I understand that my neglecting her EN pushed her away and I am aware of that now, I used to be selfish and ignorant but now I am enlightened. She says it is too late. We make the same conversation many times everyday.

In these circumstances Plan A and exposure is not working. I'll go on with Plan A but I have no hope.

I had suggested going to a consultant together but she didn't wanted to. As a final resort perhaps I can try to convice her to go to a consultant. I have read about MB's warnings about bad consultants. Do you think the right consultant can help us? Can you suggest someone in Istanbul?

I am desperate. Please help.

You don't understand the benefits of exposure. Even though you have completely bungled it by trickling it out, you will still benefit from exposure by creating conflict in her affair. The REASON she wants "independence" is so she can be with her boyfriend. If the affair is exposed, he will be less likely to be hanging around to get sex from your wife.

You need to wake up and take this seriously. Get this affair exposed!


This is all a bunch of nonsense that is a distraction from solving your marital problems. Please stay focused. If you can't follow this program, then you are wasting our valuable time.

Can you follow a plan?

Posting again. Was this done? Have you met with the OMs wife? These are critical exposures that are not being taken seriously.

You mean WW's family and friends, right? If so, I did exposed to her family and friends ,except for her mother and my mother. I'll expose to the remaining today.

edit: Should I continue to give her to trust that she can come home after the affair has really ended?

edit2: Should I tell her that I think she wants her independence so she can be with OM? I had told her that the things she says makes me think that way.

And the most important exposure target: THE OM'S WIFE! Close that deal by speaking to her asap.


No. She has not left so don't make any deals like that.

I have talked with OM's wife face to face. She said OM will go throug a dicipline investigation at work.
I have talked with WW's mother. She said she'll talk with WW but didn't. Her husband was with her at the moment. I believe he didn't let her talk with WW.
List is comleted.

OM's wife called WW. WW pissed off and now bombarding me form whatsapp.

Should I try to calm her down or should I ignore her?

Tell her you want to have a happy marriage with her. Don't argue with her.

I did. But she says she doesn't want to be married with me anymore.

You did good! I would keep in touch with the OM's wife and help each other kill this affair. Will she be your ally? Will she give you the contact Info for the OMs parents?

The next step will be to get your exposures finished and then do your best to present yourself as an attractive, pleasant spouse. Don't fight with her and don't let her bait you into a fight. Ask her to end her affair the OM; be a broken record.

In the meantime, be prepared to call the OMS wife anytime you see they are in contact. Refresh my memory, do they work together?

They are in different companies. There is business relationship between companies. OM's wife also has no job and OM most probably will loose his job. So OM's wife is a little upset for my workspace exposure. I don't know if she'll give me OM'S family contacts. I think main reason for Ww to be so pissed off against me is for my workspace exposure and ruining their kids future.

I am on the way to meet my wife.
While she is pissed off how can I present myself as a pleasant spouse. I did that before and she got more angry or resentful.

Dear Armagan,

I hope you do understand that everyone here are correctly evaluating your situation and let me assure you, they will predict correctly the future of it. Not because of some special oracle skills but because they (and I) have encountered here a number of similar situation and many of them (incl I) have a personal experience.

If you have read Melodylane's exposure 101 thread then there is specifically stated (in section Fallout) that real exposure will cause WS anger - but the greater the anger the better the exposure impact.

In my case - some of my friends knew, they even talked to my WW not to hurt me anymore etc. It meant nothing. Only when after discovering that the affair was still active after false promises I exposed to OMW. The outcome revealed OM-s true personality and the affair ended quickly.

Exposing to the OMW is the most important step for the killing affair. Other exposure targets are usually helpful but the spouse who have been cheated on is the most harmed person in this and can usually make steps (if correctly informed, of course) that affect greatly the affair. OM/WW usually know that and make everything in their power to keep OMW in the dark.

As you see from your case - initially your WW tries to convince you that the affair is over and the exposure made her see the light etc (and you seem to believe this utter rubbish) - but only the exposure to the OMW reveals your wife's true intentions. And reveals her anger because you shattered these intentions to pieces.

Right now, you have made a greatest step since the beginning. Hang on, your WW will try to "punish" you for disturbing her plans. She will threaten you with lot of stuff, including divorce and so on. You will find the instructions for your best behavior from Melodylane's exposure 101 thread.

No, the reason your wife is angry is because you interfered with her affair. It is silly to suggest she is upset because of the OMs children. She is having an affair with their father!!!! Did she care about his children when she was screwing their married father? You need to stop believing the silly things your fogged out wife says and use your common sense.

WHY? It serves no purpose to go meet with h when she is furious. You need to wait and do see her, tell her that everyone should know about her affair and ask her to end it immediately.

She wanted me to come. I said I have arrived and she'll be here in 30mins. Should I go back?

She doesn't admit that it is going on. She is coming directly to our home after work for the last three weeks. and I have no evidence that it is going on. I have webwatcher installed. When I say we need this affair to end she laughs at me. She says there is nothing left.

I see your point: Pavlov's dogs.

OM's wife told me that OM had an affair before. He had also told my wife. I have learned today. Perhaps I can tell her that he would leave soon her when he is done with her.

Just leave. And ask her to prove her affair is over and to send the OM a no contact letter. Doesn't she work with this guy?

She has just packed and left the house with the kid.



She has gone to her friend.

Talk about scoring a direct hit. You have torpedoed WW's affair. The affair is now taking on water and has WW frantic trying to save her affair so it does not sink.

Great job. Took too long but better now then never. You see the madder a WW gets when the affair is exposed that shows how effective the exposure was.

I don't feel that it is better now. Any ways I decided to follow MB way and I have got nothing to loose now.

Please guide me. What should I do now?

First, I would plan to protect your assets and also make sure she does not run off with your child. It is not uncommon for waywards in distress to drain bank accounts and do other crazy things.

Second, you want to Plan A by being the best man you can be and showing her a great place to come home to. Does she have any complaints about you? Fix them. When you interact with her, fill her EN's and do not lovebust. Fill her banks where and when you can. Have you been doing these things?

I have no assets to protect. I don't have a job at the moment. We have some money in my bank account and she asked me to send the half of it to her immediately. Should I send? She has a well paid job. I have no other money. I am staying in our house. When she moves to an other house with the kid, our expenses will be much more. I can move to a cheaper house then they would need and let them stay in our house. What do you think?

It doesn't look possible for me to find a job soon. Even if I don't send the half of the money I can only live 3 months with that. Then I have to move to my mothers house (700km away)

She has gone to a friend who has a relation ship with another married man. From the VAR record I know that she is always trying to push my WW wife away from me. But there is nothing I can do about it.

I had hit her twice before. The first had happened more than 10 years ago and the second 6-7- years ago I guess� And yes she had complaints about my anger and our fights in the past. She consistently says that she couldn't forget them. We used to figth a lot. We have learned how not to fight 3-4 years ago, and we even didn't have any serious argument for 6 months (maybe much more). She sometimes get mad at me but that's ok. Thats all.

No. Oh, please, no.

Don't send her any money. Just sit tight! She will be home soon. You did a great job in your exposures! Will her mother reach out to her?

Will the OM's wife give you the OM's parents contact information? It would be a great hit on the affair if you exposed to them.

Her mother had told me that she would call WW immedietelly but she didn't. I guess WW's father didn't let her call WW.

WW wants me to decide to sue her untill this weekend. If I don't sue her she will go to court for divorce. And she wants to know if I will accept divorce or not.
What should I tell her?

Could you please give me a pathway to folow? on...
- how, when and how frequent to talk with her...
- what to tell?
- how to respond to her financial demands

She'll need money for getting another appartment.She wants me to send her money. What should I tell her?

OM's wife wants to be with her husband and try to work out their problems. I don't think she'll give OM's parents contact. Also she is a little upset with me for causing loosing OM's job.

Her mother had told me that she would call WW immedietelly but she didn't. I guess WW's father didn't let her call WW.

As far as I know WW's family fully supporting her. WW tells them how bad our marriage was. She tells them we argue frequently which is not true. It is true that she and I are hard to convince people. We used to argue a lot in the past. For the last couple of years we don't have frequent arguments. And when we do, generally she doesn't want negotiate on conflict and she does as she wishes. As a result I become upset with her.

WW wants me to decide to sue her or not untill this weekend. If I won't sue her she will go to court for divorce. And she wants to know if I will accept divorce or not.
What should I tell her?

She'll need money for getting another appartment.She wants me to send her money. ok I won't ... but What should I tell her?

Could you please give me a pathway to folow?
- how, when and how frequent to talk with her...
- what to tell?
- how to respond to her financial demands
- should I give her some space to think?

TEll her you have told her mother and ask her to call her mother to discuss her affair.


Just tell her you aren't interested in divorce. You would like to fix the marriage.


Be as pleasant as possible, but ask her to end her affair with the OM. Ask her to send him a no contact letter.


Tell her no thanks, you aren't sending any money.

The OM was fired because he had an affair. That is not your fault!! Call her and ask for the parents contact information. If she won't give it, then find them yourself. .

Do not file or agree to divorce.

Do not give WW money to move out or hire a lawyer.

Stall as long as you can to let exposure do it's job. If OMW is resolved to fight for her marriage she will keep OM away from WW. This will show WW that she meant nothing to OM when he pulls away from her.

You went from being afraid OM may lose his job to you know saying the OM got fired. How did that happen?

If I don't help her how can she see me as a caring man? BTW, she can afford a separate apartment and searching for and apartment like crazy.
Do you think that going on exposing can do harm, if the affair is really over? I strongly feel that way, and it happened to us. She is seeing an attorney. She pulled out swords

A "caring" husband does not finance an affair. That is not the message you want to give. There is a difference between "caring" and enabling.


Feelings are not truth. Exposure has been THERAPEUTIC in your case and every other case. You ruined the affair. You have likely killed the affair, which was not over. Even if it was over, exposure is very powerful because it keeps the affair killed.

You do understand that waywards are always furious about exposure, right? They ALWAYS pull out swords. The more angry the more effective your exposure. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger over exposure, it can't survive an ongoing affair.

WW said she had talked with her mother last night and she had told her about our marriage wasn't going well and separation has nothing to do with her affair. And she said her mother told her that she doesn't care anything but her happiness.

No one gives a damn about a 40 y.o. self sufficient womans affair.

Thats why, I can see no point in continuing exposure. Besides I have completed my list: her family, her close friends, my family and both workspaces.

edit: 7-8 years ago during the days that our marriage was full of arguments, I had told her to find a job incase she wants a divorce in the future.

First off, you have NO EARTHLY IDEA what her mother said to her. You only have the feedback of a liar. And secondly, it is not true that "no one cares about a 40 year old woman...." You can't make that assumption. Most people don't care; we already know that. success or failure of exposure is not contingent on "people caring." SUccess is achieved by getting it out into the open and forcing the affairees to see themselves through the eyes of others when they have to explain themselves.

Affairs thrive on secrecy so getting it out into the open ruins the fantasy.

Have you exposed to anyone else on OM's side besides his BW? His parents? His family?

I called WW's mother. She said WW told her she had an EA with a man but her separation from me has nothing to do with her affair. I tried to explain her mother that it is a PA and we didn't have any problems for many years untill this affair. I think she is not convinced. I asked her to talk with WW again.

Should I call WW once in a while and propose to meet? All she does is talking about getting an apartment. I donWt know what to talk about with WW.

Please advice.

No. I don't have their contact. I asked (text) their contact from OM's wife, but no response.

I am curious to know why you are unemployed and what you are doing to rectify this situation?

I cannot speak for your wife, but most women would find it very unattractive for a man to be unemployed for a long period of time. If you are looking to Plan A her and show her a great marriage to come home to, maybe you want to start here.

I absolutely agree with you. I am searching for a job since 15th of June. (Interestingly OM's first emotional message was on 18th of June). I am 44 and for an electronics engineer it's very hard to find a job at that age in Turkey. I have an extraordinarily decent resume and I have made hundreds of job applications but only two companies called me for interview.

Can you find a job in the meantime that is not engineering? It is more attractive for you to find a job that may be less in pay, but is a job, than remaining unemployed.

You can always continue to search for a job in your field while also going to work every day and earning a paycheck.

Hello all,
After I asked OMS's wife to give OM�s parents phone, his wife called me. She said: They love eachother. OM is very remorseful and they are working on their marriage. She inspected WW's facebook page and she saw that WW is an alcohol user, going out with her girl friends, wear revealing clothes and look like she likes independency (and it is totally true. WW, I and our families are all liberal). In contrast, her husband and she is very conservative. He even do not let her wear a halter dress. And OM and WW don�t fit at all. And after all OM thinks that WW used him to encourage herself for divorce.

Now I see that WW had never been really into the affair (as she said before). She has never shown remorse, never asked forgiveness from me. Two years ago, WW�s best friend divorced at her 40, after struggling with her marriage for many years. She is our ex neighbour. And she always says it is very good to be free at last. And they have friend group of 4 woman all divorced except for my wife. They go out once or twice a week. Many times I have told my wife we need too spend more time together and I don�t like her to meet them frequently. We agreed to spend Friday nights together and Saturday nights with her friends. She is very stubborn so I sometimes feel resentful when I can�t negotiate with her. A couple of times I argued with her about her going out with her friends when I feel resentful. And a few months later this affair happened. She is at the end of 39 and since the last year she sometimes used to say she is wondering how will our marriage be after her 40. I think the idea of being independent seemed better than our marriage to her. Even before the affair she wasn�t into a codependent life.

I truely believe that there is nothing left in her mind about OM. And all the exposures and my spying on her on her made her feel trapped and pissed off. She felt trapped not because she is planning a future with OM but because she wants her freedom. And with each exposure I pushed her away from me. Our main problem is not her affair but her after 40 thoughts. If the affair had died a natural death or if I had not expose to everyone we coud have a chance to work our marriage out. Before the affair I was reading MB web site and I had recognized my ignorance and neglect. And the timing of this affair ruined everything. She couldn�t heard me and respond to my efforts.

I told her about my thoughts but she says it is too late and she wants to be away from me and from any other man for a long time. And even if she forgets bad feelings about me and even she starts dating me again she will never be married to me or any other man again. She says every one will suffer the consquences of their faults and this is how she can live in peace. I am deeply sorry. I love my wife, I am sure that if she could hear and believe me we would have a satisfying marriage. Now, it looks like there is no hope for us.

One side of me wants to file her and divorce in order to get out of these false expectations and pain, the other side of me wants to be nice, help her getting an apartment with our son and give her some space for a possible marital reconciliation. Both decisions comprise a lot of suffering for a long time. I am indecisive.

Do you have any suggestions?

I am sure of one thing. I should find a job ASAP.

Edit: Perhaps it is [censored] but I would prefer that she is getting an apartment in order to go on her affair. Eventually their affair would die and I could win her back. But it is not the case.

Total manure.

Why?

You are making every reason to justify your WW affair.

Making every excuse to not fight for your marriage and not expose the affair.

Eight pages of from the best people on MB coaching you and you do not follow their example. These people are experts for they have been through the fire of an affair and survived with their marriage saved.

What do you do, what have you done?

You have let the OM do you WW.

OM's wife said since OM hasn't got a job they spend every hour to gether searching for a job and working out their marriage. OM is remorseful and he is also pissed off my wife for using him.

Also OM called WW that he will want to go on his marriage and WW said after all she respect their marriage and she won't see him again as long as he is married.

OM's wife and WW told me the same story. May be fake, but I believe it's true.

What do you think WW is thinking or planning? Do see any hope? How will it be? How it can be?

Do you suggest going for plan A?

I believe affair is over. I have webwatcher. No eveidence.
If it is over would you be suggesting Plan A or Plan B?

I want to consult to an attorney next week.

It's clear to me you don't understand the dynamics of an affair but you think you do. My suggestion would be to get the book Surviving an Affair and maybe that will help. I am a volunteer on this board and don't personally have the time to weed through such fogged out posts. I feel like I have done all I can here. Best of luck to you.

I will make a short comment about this, though. I want to point out how irrational it is to say exposure "pushed" her away when you were actually SEPARATED so she could pursue her affair in peace. We told you to go home. It doesn't get any more "pushed away" than that.

Oh no, your main problem is your wife's AFFAIR, not her age. Your suggestion that this is a "mid life crisis" is what Dr. Harley calls a form of DENIAL. "Mid life crisis" is a pretty typical and classic denial mechanism employed by betrayed spouses. It is no different here.

Anger over exposure is a sign of the FOG. Of course it angers wayward spouses. That is an expected reaction. But they don't STAY angry unless the affair is still active and they are still fogged out. Anger is a sign of being fogged out. There is NOTHING that will "push away" a wayward spouse who is determined to save her marriage. The only people who get angry about snooping are people who have something to hide.

I have read the book. Book addresses the beginning and progress of WW's affair exactly. But my wife never showed remorse or asked for forgiveness.

In either case -affair is over or not- do you suggest plan A? How long can it take her to return? I am suffering for four months.

Which NEVER happens. If you read the book, you know this.


Did she leave? Plan A should last about 6 months.

Yes, she has left 3 days ago.
I love her and I want her back. But if I wait six months I will loose the legal right to sue her for the affair.

Six months from now? I consider myself being in plan A since June. I'm I wrong?

What are you talking about? You asked about PLAN A. It typically lasts 6 months. I never commented on suing her for the affair.

Plan A means EXPOSURE and pledging to her that you will meet her needs in the future if she ends her affair. WHEN did you expose?

I have started exposure on 20th of September and finished on 27 with Ww's mother and OM's wife.

As far as I know... According to our laws if we agree to divorce every asset that we made during marriage divides into two. But if there is an affair with proof she may get nothing. In order to go to court for their affair I have to do it in six months after learning about the affair. I have learnt it on 18th of June. So I have to go to court before 18th of December.

I really want her back. And I will go for plan a. But what are the chances? Does it worth taking the risk of losing my house?

I have no evidence that their affair is going on and After she left the house with the kid I lost my hope.

WW said she has formatted her phone.

What does this mean?

she converted the phone to factory settings. Everything is deleted.

in fact ... she said she would. and I couldn't access to her phone for 6 hours, so I thought she did. But now I can access. Probably her battery had finished.

Still no evidence of an on going affair.

She'll come tomorrow to collect her things. And she wants to take our boy's furniture and dishwasher.

What should I do?
Should I cooperate and be nice?

Her list is growing

I would only allow her to take her personal effects and the child's immediate needs. She should not be allowed to take anything more without a court order. Don't let her tear up your home.

What is the plan for the child? Have you discussed custody splits? She can't just take your child from you.

She can't take the boys furniture from his own home. How will he stay with you? So that should be a NO.

You can file for divorce now. And it sounds like you need to do this so you can get legal protection.


About 50/50 chance. And no, you shouldn't lose your house. You shouldn't allow her to destroy you financially.

Our boy is 14 and he wants to stay with her mother. When she wanted our boy's furniture I had told her that I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable when he is with me, so I don't want to give the furniture. But she insisted and said she have a lot to buy for new apartment and she is short of money. For our boy's comfort I had said OK.
If I don't give the furniture she'll blame me for not considering our boy's happiness.
What do you suggest?

First off, does the boy know about the affair?

It's real easy. If she is so concerned about your boys' "comfort" she should end her affair and stay home and work on the marriage. If she were concerned about the boys "comfort" she wouldn't be leaving his dad for his affair.

She should not take any furniture. The boy should be comfortable when he is with you. Nor should you be left "uncomfortable" because she wants to leave and cat around like an alley cat in heat. Don't make it easy for her at your expense.

I have send her message "sorry I can't let you take the furniture and the dishwasher" and tried to explain my reasons.

She got very mad. She blammed me for being selfish. she threatened me : she said I can never see her face again, and that she will come with his father to take the furniture and dishwasher. I said her to calm down and discuss later. Bu she just don't stop. Still writing.....

edit: yes our boy knows about the affair. but in the eyes of everyone including our boy I am the bad guy.

Just let her know that you aren't going to let her take any furniture. That can be worked out by the courts if it comes to that. Don't argue with her about it. Just be FIRM.


Has she brainwashed him?

come with HER father?

Yes. Her father. My mistake. Excuse me for my English. I am now a good writer even in my mother language.

And I am against regular use of sugar, chocolate and flour. And he is just a kid so he likes sweet. My wife also loves sweet and there are many sweet items at home all the time,which I always say to her I don't want it. I have such requests related to our health but usually wife and son doesn't agree with me.
And in a sense yes. She has been brainwashing him during the past years.

I don't think she'll dare to come with her father. I've just never seen her this much pissed off. I feel like one side of her was still wanted to be with me in the future. The trusting side of hers. I guess I am loosing her this compromiser side by not cooperating.

She is angry because you are not rolling over and facilitating her affair. That is a good thing. She is not asking you to "compromise" she is demanding that you roll over and give her furniture out of your home. She is asking that you HELP HER destroy your home. You should not help her in any way. Make her work very hard at tearing down your home and marriage, don't hand it to her.

My mother wants to come to house this week for supporting me. But WW said she doesn't want to come across with my mother so asked me to tell her that it's better to come after WW finishes collecting her stuf. So I had turned my mother back.

I think affair is totally finished. No evidence for weeks.
Could the reasons for her moving out be withdrawal?
I have webwatcher for a week and I have never witnessed a recent conversation with OM or about OM. That makes me think that it may not be withdrawal.
Can it be that she is just thinking she won't be able to look faces of her family, friends and neighbours if she comes back to me, after all that exposure? I have a strong feeling that this is the case.

edit: Before I told her that she can't take the furniture she had invited me to see her new apartment. Now she says I will never see her face again. I wan't to see the house. I wonder where will she live with our son. Do you recommend that I insist on seeing the house?

I have phoned our boy(14). He said He'll stay with his mom most of the time and he'll need his furniture in mom's house.

I said to him I will think about it.
What should I tell to my son???? If I don't give the furniture he'll blame me.

edit: Please also reply #2887832

I would invite your mother back. You need the support.

The affair is not finished. They either found another way to communicate or they have a plan for her to move out first.

As far as the boys furniture, how will he visit you if his bedroom furniture is not there?

Plan A does not mean going along with marriage wrecking plans of your wife. Sure, your wife is amicable if you help her dismantle your marriage, but that is not the message you should be sending. Don't help her tear down your marriage or your home in any way. Don't help help her move out.

She's here and packing. Very angry. Doesn't talk. Blames me for being selfish.
She says I can never see her again.

Just be as pleasant as possible but don't help her! She is just angry because you won't cooperate with her dismantling of your home.

Our boy has come. Apparently his mother taught his lesson. He says he also want his furniture. I don't want to argue with my boy. I said I will think about it.


What should I say when they come to take the furniture.?

Can't there be an exception for boys room.?

I don't understand. So where will the boy stay when he visits you? See, the parent who moves out is required to purchase furniture for their children in their home. Why is she refusing to do this for her son?

Apparently she wants him to be more comfortable with her. Our son also wants that. What should I do?

What should you do?

It is her obligation to purchase furniture for your son in her home. Why would you even consider - for one second - giving up the furniture in your own home? That makes no sense whatsoever and will only hurt your custody arrangement.

She should go purchase furniture for her son in her home. In America, that is a requirement of both parents to ensure the children have what they need to accommodate the kids. Wouldn't the solution be to make sure he is comfortable at both places?

He says he can sleep on the couch when he is with me. I said I don't want him to feel like foreigner in his(my) home.
But he insisted on getting his furniture to his mother's apartment.

Most courts will not go along with that.

Thats not in your son's best interest or yours. The best thing is for your wife to purchase new furniture for him. Can't you do the right thing on your own?

I mean, seriously. Why are you debating with a teenage boy and a fogged out wayward? This is really ridiculous.

Because I feel very weak because everyone in her family is against me, as if it is all my fault.

Your 14 yr old son does not have the authority to move furniture from your home. You should have put your foot down and not allowed that to happen. You need to be more firm or you're going to get walked all over by your WW when she manipulates your son in order to get her way.

My entire ex WH family was against me during and post divorce. Honestly, you need to brush these things off and not let it affect you.

Seriously, you're stronger than this. Who cares what they think of you? You can do this.

Your feelings do not have to control your actions. In fact, depending on what actions you choose, your actions will affect the feelings you are going to have in the future.

A lot of times I have to do something when I don't feel like doing it, because I know that down the road I am going to wish I had done it.

We try to achieve happily ever after, here. We want you to have a strong and happy future. Start choosing strong actions that will lead to happiness. Pick your future feelings by your actions.

Markos,
How did your story end?
I don't want her to be my ex.

I hope you did not give into your WW. She wants to have a second home it is her responsibility to financially provide for it.

You are having all these problems because you will not expose your affair. It is a must that you expose and that include your kids.

You simply say to your son: moms and dads do not have BF/GF and go out on dates with them. Well mom has a BF and is going out on dates with him. This is known as having an affair .This ______(insert OM full name)is who your mom is having an affair with.

This is important for your son to know who the man is that is destroying his family.

Luckily our son was with me when reading your post. I showed OMs picture and said "This is the man who destroyed our family"

And he said "It is you"


After various attempts I reached my wife via whatsapp. As usual she said she doesn't love me anymore, and after all exposure she can only be with me after we divorce, which she doesn't want at all. May be a few years later, she said.

A very, very, extremely immature way for a dad to tell his son that his mom is having an affair.

I spelled out a simple clear and to the point exposer to use with a child. Just the facts. No where did I say blame the WW or the OM, no histrionics oh the wow's is me, this ..... destroyed...... makes you sound weak and worse then a woman, not the image for a son to respect.

Worse than a woman?

The women on this site who exposed to their children and fought for their marriages can wipe the floor with men like you who are still in limbo for one reason or another.

Have you read this！

Exposing to Children

I would just point out that the poster told his son that his mother was having an affair, several days ago.

When he said today that he pointed to a picture and identified OM, that was as a response to the post that said that he needed to let the boy know who the man was. He said that the boy was with him as he was reading that post, so he pointed to the picture there and then.

He is not saying that the picture was the way he exposed the affair - just that it was the way he specifically identified OM. Showing the boy OM's picture was actually a good thing to do.

This thread has become sidetracked by the suggestion that the poster has not exposed to his son. He has done that. He did it days ago. However, his son, for some reason, is taking his mother's side, and agreeing with her view that his father broke up the family by his treatment of his mother.

His son's attitude is a big problem, but it is not caused by the fact that the poster did not expose to his son. He did.

Are you documenting everything?
Document Document Document

Yes I am documenting.

I agreed to divorce in order to protect my apartment. She will talk to an attorney today for discussing my settlement conditions. If we cannot agree on divorce conditions, prosecution will last for 2 years and our lives will be very painful and we'll hate each-other.

I am resisting her divorce suggestion for weeks. I am 100% sure that affair is over. She says she has to divorce after all exposure, and she can't look at the faces our friends, neighbors in this situation. I guess I understand her. She moved to a new apartment with our son(14).

At the moment she doesn't want me anymore, or anyone else. And she says she won't marry anyone in the future. Even if we be together in the future she doesn't want to live in the same house, or with anyone else. Eventually she'll need someone to love after a while. And I want to be there when she needs.

She still shows no remorse or ask for forgiveness. She says she want me to let her go. I don't know if I should let her go or go for Plan A/B since we are divorcing.

I still want her back but I don't want to spend another 4 months in pain if she won't come back.

Suggestions?

I would wager the affair is still active as evidenced by her decision to move out and her anger over the exposure. Anger over exposure is always because of the FOG and the fog comes from the AFFAIR. You have no reason whatsoever to believe the affair is over.

You should just stay in Plan A, as I told you before, but protect yourself legally. Not a smart idea to allow your wife to manage the divorce because she is wayward. YOU should do that.

Summary:
Me: 44 WW:39 DS:14. OM:39 and Married with a child. We all live in Istanbul.
08Jun2016 I lost my job
12Jun2016 She wanted some time alone and my first suspicions started
16Jun2016 I set up remotely accessible microphone and I went to a vacation on her request with our son. (big mistake)
17Jun2016 I heard about her EA(may be PA) while WW telling her best friend. I phoned and told her about my spying and she promised that its over and only EA, limited with social media and we agreed on recovery.
02Jul2016 We went to a vacation with our son and we were quite happy other then she didnTt want to have sex.
10Jul2016 Back to home together but she continues to see OM (which I didn't know at that time)
08Aug2016 I felt safe and I went to a vacation alone (biggest mistake)
20Aug2016 We went to a vacation (me and WW). It was like second honeymoon. A lot of sex and affection.
26Aug2016 She returned home I take our son and go to vacation. And she continued to see OM (which I didn't know at that time)
08Sep2016 I went back to home and after that I later find that she had only one contact with OM after my last (this) return and it is to end the affair.
10Sep2016 We went to a vacation with our son and we agreed on recovering our marriage.(at that time I knew their relationship as only EA over social media)
17Sep2016 We went back to home and I find evidence (19Sep) on her phone that they actually saw each-other frequently.
19Sep2016 Their last meeting in a shopping center)
20Sep2016 I have exposed to close friends, her boss, her sisters and our son
22Sep2016 She admitted that affair was not only emotional but also gone physical on July (twice she says).
26Sep2016 I have exposed to OM's bosses. I have installed webwatcher on her phone. I read the book "Surviving an Affair"
27Sep2016 I have exposed to OM's wife and WW's mother. WW pissed off and She left the house with our son. All of her friends and family respects her decisions.
??Oct2016 She consistently says she wants to divorce and I say I don't want to divorce and I want to recover our marriage. I agreed to file her for not loosing my house.(legal issues in here)
24Oct2016 I have found a job
Oct/Nov2016 We meet once or twice a week for an hour. Talk frequently. I'm in plan A. Sometimes we kiss eachother. When I say I love her, she says back she loves me too sometimes. No contact with OM since the beginning of October(I am spying remotely).
She doesn't believe that we can be happy together again and I am trying to convince her that it is possible following MB rules. She says she has a lot of doubts. I also think that it won't work if she goes on her independent behaviour.
______My Question___________
Since I am in Plan A, When and how can I convince her to apply Dr. Harley's policies, without being demanding? Is it too early? Please guide me for the steps.
____________________________
Notes: We'll be on the court on 23Dec2016 for divorce.
If you want any specific details please let me know.

I proposed her to go out this Saturday. She said she'll go to cinema with a girl friend. As soon as she said that she searched movies(thanks to webwatcher). Most probably she lying.
I don't know what to do. Please suggest.

I think it would be a mistake to try to convince her to apply Dr Harley's policies. At this stage, she does not want her marriage, so how can you convince her to work on something designed to improve her marriage? All you will do is annoy her.

There is no magic bullet that is going to convince her to call off the divorce. Once you have taken the most important Plan A steps, which are to expose the affair, confront OM, and express your willingness to create a fulfilling marriage once she ends her affair, the only other thing you can do is continue the ENs-meeting side of Plan A, and wait for the affair to die. When it dies, and as time passes, she will look at her options, and if you have shown yourself to be the man she can rely on, who has not let her down, she may well consider returning to you.

Getting a job is a major Plan A step. Well done. You need to continue to show yourself to be financially reliable, and a good provider for your son, and eventually, for her.

Your wife might not change her mind in time to stop the divorce, but the divorce does not have to be the end of your future together. Some people, including some posters on this board, remarry after divorce.

So, the advice is to continue to seek ways of meeting often with her, and to turn these into enjoyable dates. You should not show a melancholy face on the dates, or talk about how miserable you are. You should tell her, from time to time, that you miss her and that seeing her makes you happy. Above all, let her witness, on the dates, that seeing her makes you happy. Send her notes and flowers, too, but don't bombard her.

Your wife is divorcing the man you once were, that she thinks you still are. It will take some time to show her that you are not that man any more.

We have met today and spent a nice, intimate evening as usual. She said she want to go out with her girl friends on Saturday night. I said OK. But I don't feel OK about it. But I have just woke up from a nightmare a few minutes ago. In my dream she was flirting with a man.
I almost sure nothing will happen on Saturday but I am afraid paranoid thoughts will torture me all night.

What do you suggest? I feel that I have to tell her about my feelings? But how?

Married women do not go out on Saturday nights alone without their husband. Same for husbands.

You cannot hope that, now that she is separated from you and has filed for divorce, she will consider herself a married woman, and act like one. There is no point trying to impose that agenda on her.

Is she going ahead with the divorce?

Tell her about your dream.

Hi,
Short summary:
Me:44 WW:39 Our Son:15
OM:40 married with one child
PA:ended on October
Exposure: completed
WW had no contact with OM since October.
She always says that exposure made our re-union almost impossible, because, after exposure she had told her parents about my physical abuse which was 7 years ago.
We had agreed to divorce and recover our relationship. We are following MB basic rules.
We divorced last Friday. We are doing good. We date and stay eachothers houses almost everyday. OM and OMs wife doing good.

But...
Yesterday I recovered (thanks to webwatcher) OM tried to contact my (ex)wife via her best friend. As far as I could see WW didn't respond. But she didn't tell me that OM tried to contact her neither. We had agreed that she would tell me if OM would try to contact her. But she didn't. And she seemed a lot distant that night. And it hurt me a lot. I can't ask her why she didn't tell me... I am trying to act as if I didn't know OM's effort but it's effecting my intimacy towards her.

Any suggestions?

Have you told OM's BW of his contact to your WXW?

Yes. And yesterday I told Ww that I am aware of his effort.... without anger and disrespect.That was Dr. Harleys advice I thanked her for not responding. Ww didn't called him but send the message that she won't talk to him as long as he is married... Which is huge question mark. I told her that I Am very upset for her sounding like she is leaving a back door open. She wanted to learn how I have learned his effort... And I told her that I can see her whatsapp messages. Thdn she is pissed off. And we have separated again. She said she doesn't want me anymore and she want to be free.

I am in hesitation to go on for plan a.

Should I go for plan B or let it go. I still want her back. but her not being honest destroys me.

I quickly looked at the last few pages of your thread and think what others have been telling you, you haven't been able to accept and maybe there is a misapplication of Plan A happening here (you asked about introducing MB principles to your W now that you two are dating).

Your W is very wayward. That is evidenced by the fact that she went forward with the divorce, blaming your exposure. Only a wayward would say that. She may have also been hoping by getting a divorce that she would be encouraging the OM to get a divorce.

Moving forward in your Plan A, I think you need to expect this type of behavior from your W, I'm sorry to say. It will probably be a roller coaster ride with a lot of dips and you're going to have to dig deep in order to hang on for the ride. If the best that you can do is avoid lovebusters, then do that until you collect yourself.

Sorry you're going through this.

This makes absolutely no sense.

You can't have simultaneously agreed to a divorce AND to recover your relationship. It isn't possible to do the two contrasting things at the same time.

Either of you can file to a divorce. Later, when things are going well between you, you can agree to try and recover the marriage.

OR:

Either of you can file for divorce while resolving that, if the erring spouse makes a significant change in their behaviour, the divorce can be halted.

You can't agree to divorce AND recover the marriage at the same time, in the same time frame. These two are the opposite of each other. You can't genuinely want to do both. In fact, you did not agree to divorce. It was your wife that insisted on this, and nothing you said stopped her.

You heard that this was the agreement, because you wanted, with all your might, for your (ex) wife to change her mind. She was the one who filed, and she made some sort of statement that perhaps you could still see each other. This is unusual, but from her point of view, having you as a boyfriend while she waited for OM might have been preferable to being all alone. She might have thought that, if OM never came back to her, it would be a good thing to have you as a back-up.

However, as I said to you weeks ago, once she filed (and even more so once the divorce went through), you could not expect her to see herself as a married woman, and to behave accordingly. You should have seen her unwavering intention to file for what it was: in her mind, an end to her responsibilities to you. You should have had no expectation of honesty or faithfulness from her. If you wanted to go on seeing and having sex with her on that basis, at least you should have done so having recognised the brutal reality that she is still committed to winning back OM.

You should inform OMW that OM tried to contact your ex. Beyond that, with regard to your ex, you can either accept that she wants OM back, and try to Plan A her on that basis, or you can step out of the way.

If you go down the Plan A route, you should know that you have no right any more to spy on her communications. You can still do it (I would), but realise that you have no right in law to do this, as you are no longer married. If you find evidence of contact you should definitely tell OMW, but you have no real grounds for demanding anything of your ex.

I see you told OM's BW that he contacted your WXW. What did OMBW say? Are they still working on their marriage?

Yes I have told her and she said thats impossible. Their marriage is going well. I didn't insisted.

Did you send her the evidence of the contact?

Update: Thank you all for your support. After two years we are generally doing great. Except for sometimes I give extreme response when she is late an hour or so when she is out for shopping or being with her girlfriends. I am trying to cope with that.

Good for you. It is great to hear you are doing well.

Are you married again?
Do you still have extraordinary precautions in place? Then you shouldn�t have to worry.
Are you her favorite companion to do fun things and spending 15h a week on that?

You want her to be head over heels tingly feeling in love with you. And vice versa of course.