The last week of my life has been an absolute nightmare. Let me tell the whole backstory because I don't want to leave anything and want real insight as to what is going on.

My husband and I have known each other for 20 years. We met online as teenagers, on opposite coasts of the country (NY for me and CA for him). We started an online "relationship" which of course gradually faded away as we were both entering HS and we moved on with our lives, naturally. However, we always kept in touch. Ever since we met, he's been obsessed with being with me. He told his mom when he was 15 that he would marry me someday. So when he joined the army at 19/20 and he had a choice to be stationed in Korea or upstate NY he chose NY with the hope of being near me.

So we started a friendship in person. The first time we met we were both so nervous. But after the initial awkwardness, we were like best friends immediately. We had been sharing our personal friendship with each other for so many years it felt natural to be together. We didn't date at that time, because I had a boyfriend. But he kept coming out to see me at school (my school was 1.5 from his base). After I left an emotionally abusive relationship for the second time, he was there. I realized he'd always been there and he had told me that he would never treat me like that, and I believed him. So we got together. Two months later we were engaged, and 10 months after that we were married. He then went overseas for a year, and when he got back we were together.

We've been married now 12 years. We have a 7 year old son. I have a lot of issues from my childhood and have dealt with depression for most of our relationship. We have had many ups and downs but we have always come out together. I started to see a psychiatrist about 3 years ago to deal with the depression as I was tired of taking everything out on my family, my husband and not being present for my child (emotionally). I went 3 times a week for a year, and came out of it on medication and having to cut off half of my family due to their toxicity. I officially cut off my father in January of 2015. My husband has been there for me through it all, regardless of how poorly I've treated him. I know I have a short temper, I know that I have high expectations, or put pressure on him. The past year I have been working relentlessly to give him more freedom, let him off the hook and not be bothered so much by insignificant things. But I fear the damage has been done.

My husband on the other hand has also dealt with depression and feelings of inadequacy his entire life, but he's never gone to get help. He's been depressed many times, but he hides his emotions. He does not talk about them. He never talks about when he has a problem or issue or is upset. He was verbally/physically/emotionally abused and neglected throughout his childhood. He abused drugs, smoked, slept around and dropped out of school as a teenager. When he joined the army he turned everything around.

He's always had volatile relationships and it seems his goal in life was just to be married at all costs. He proposed to 2 or 3 other girls before me and I guess I'm the one that stuck. We have been very happy in the past, despite our communication problems. We have had love, respect, passion, fun. We are best friends.

A year ago his parents announced they were divorcing after 35 years. He has no good relationship with his parents, he is never honest with them and has never had a real conversation with them since we've been together. The first time he said anything to his mom about how she treated him as a child was just after they announced their divorce last fall. It was the first time her ever told her his feelings of neglect and abuse.

I told him at the time, that I thought he should go and talk to someone. That I thought this divorce was really going to affect him, even though on the outside he was just as he always was. But he wouldn't and didn't.

Meanwhile it's been about a 1.5 since he started a new job. We've been all over, moving many times in our marriage. He left one job to go back to school and earn his Bachelors and through that time we had to sacrifice. For one part we had to live with my mom to make ends meet since he couldn't work and attend to his school schedule at the time. But it worked out because the GI Bill payed for all his schooling. He got a new job and we had to decide what to do. My entire support system (family) is here in the city where we live and the job is 1 hour away. We mutually decided we'd live closer to the city where my family is and he would commute. He insisted he didn't mind driving (he loves cars/driving/finds it relaxing) and I reiterated over and over that I didn't want him to always be exhausted that he had to be 100% sure of this because I didn't want to be the reason he was unhappy with his work life.

He was adamant. We bought a beautiful home in the country. We decided I would homeschool our son, and that I would also work from home on my business that I'd been building for the past 3 years.

Everything was fine, we did all the typical family things - went hunting for christmas trees, and decorated the house together, watching movies and tv together, took our child out to the park, dog for walks, we have dinner together EVERY NIGHT. We never eat in front of the tv or alone. We sit at the table and talk. He has always been affectionate and loving towards me. I have a hard time showing affection, I will admit. My father may have sexually abused me, but I don't know as I have no memories before age 10 (except being fearful of him) but he did it to my aunt and he's just a bad person and I have attachment issues because of it.

I have been feeling these past few months that he's been withdrawing towards me. We both had gained a few pounds, and I know I haven't been feeling attractive, and stopped trying so hard to impress him. I would still be in my pjs when he got home some days. And I admit that I faltered there. I should never let him feel like I didn't want to look my best for him.

I would say 3-4 months ago it was like a light switch and our hum-drum love life went FULL force. He was all over me, every night he wanted me. It was so amazing and I was so happy. We were so in tune, everything was great. Then gradually he started to withdraw. His mother came to live here for 2.5 months, and she was supposed to check out the area to see if she wanted to move near us and live or near his brother (in TX). However, a day after she got here she informed him (tearfully) that she already had but an offer in on a house in Texas before coming here. He was so angry and so was I. He's always played second fiddle to his brother, and I know he was excited at the prospect of having a member of his family around. I suspect he's always resented the fact that we've been near mine all this time, and he has not.

He told her it was fine that she would do what makes her happy. So the past 6 weeks he's been helping her deal with closing on this house that he was so angry at her for buying.

I would say a month or so ago, I started to get majority concerned about his lack of sexual affection towards me (he was still being affectionate in other ways). I told him I needed to feel wanted and desired, that I wanted him to want me. He had said that his issues with sex was making him not want to do it (he couldn't last, he would orgasm within a min or two and feel like he wasn't satisfying me, even though I told him that didn't matter to me!) Well, we had a conversation and I told him how I felt. He also told me some things that I didn't know. Things I say or do that upset him or make him feel "controlled" or "micromanaged". Ever since he was in the army he's hated being "told" what to do. Like if I announced that our son needed a bath tonight he would take it as me "Telling" him what to do.

So for about a week after that convo he was trying. We went on daily walks together to talk, and held hands. He started initiating more. When he came home he would kiss me for real. He said he wanted to hang out and watch a romantic movie on the weekend and we did. He was there for me. he told me he loved me.

Then everything changed. I felt him withdrawing again. I told him I thought he was becoming depressed and that he should get help. That I wanted him to be happy and that he didn't know if it would work unless he tried. That I would be there for him. He said he didn't know what to do. That he was scared to go and that he might find out he wants something "different". One week ago yesterday, when I hugged him after work, he didn't hug me back. The next day he pecked me on the lips like I was his grandma. I was very very concerned. I asked if he'd like to go on a date out to dinner that night. He said yes.

We started talking and I guess I got flushed, and splotchy which is what happens when I am really nervous. I had been talking to my sister and my friend that I felt like he was withdrawing and his words about being afraid of things "changing" were making me feel very uncomfortable and like he didn't want to be with me.

He kept pressuring me to tell him what was wrong, and I started to tear up. I told him I thought he was withdrawing from me, and asked him...if he still wanted to be with me? He said he didn't "know" what he wants.

Let me backtrack a bit and say that he did say he was going to get "help" and he emailed the VA. But he didn't call. In his message he said that he had been "dealing with mental issues for a long time and was ready to get help as it was affecting his mental state and "certainly his personal relationships"' however, they haven't gotten back to him. I have checked and he hasn't tried again.

So friday night he said that to me, and I was devastated. I tried to hold it together, I tried to be there. I thought it was his depression making him say these things. My family keep telling me he just needs space. So I cried that night, I didn't sleep and the following morning I went to my sisters. I cried to her, but then was steadfast in my decision that I would be there for him, that I would help him get through this and give him space, believing his depression was the cause for this change of heart and that he would come back to me. The whole weekend I was upbeat, caring. I didn't try to initiate any touch or contact, as badly as I wanted to. He would come home and say hi, and then withdraw. The hardest part was that he was completely normal with my son and his mother and everyone else. We would watch tv and we would laugh. But he didn't try to be near me, he didn't touch me. All week he's gone to bed with his back to me. It's like he wanted to be as far away from me as possible.

Yesterday it all came to a head. His mother literally left our home yesterday morning for good. Then at 4:30pm he came home and told me he was reading and that it scared him. That he thought we were "enmeshed" and that all of the symptoms resonate with him. That he's been only staying with me for our son, that he doesn't want him to be messed up like we are, that he was always doing things for me to make me happy but he hasn't been happy.

I know I have been difficult to live with. I know that I have been an emotional leech. I have always asked him over and over to open up to me, to tell me when something is wrong, but he doesn't. His way of dealing is clamming up. Shutting down. Pushing it down and down. He says his emotional buckets are overflowing. That he wants to be alone. That he wants to be friends. That he wants to be a good father. That he doesn't want to hurt me.

I had made an appointment with a therapist for tomorrow thinking I could talk to her about how to best support him through this depression and how to deal with on my end so that I could accept his not acting loving towards me and to be able to vent to someone besides him, while we work it out. Now he basically says he doesn't want to be with me. I left the house. Screaming and crying in my car. I feel blindsided. I feel like he punched me in the gut. He just sat there, no emotion about me at all. NONE. A week ago, he was hugging me and kissing me. now he's turned everything off.

So, I know the issue of an affair will be brought up. there is more backstory here. When we decided to finally have a baby he was currently in school getting a certification. He was away all day about 45 minutes drive away. We decided to try and that was that. Then he started withdrawing, being meaner to me. When I'd call him at school from work he'd act short and angry with me for calling. I was getting worried. I piled on the affection. i told him he could talk to me that i loved him.

We started reconnecting. Then the phone bill came. There were text charges there (this was before we had smart phones or unlimited texting). He said he'd gotten some wrong numbers and whatever. I believed him at the moment. Then I decided to investigate. The texts were to the same number, there were phone calls too. Always on his drive to or from school, always just after hanging up with me. I snooped. I went through his email. I found a conversation with an army buddy and he talked about how "everything was good now" that he "dealt with it" and that he'd "never had a temptation like that before". I confronted him and he told me everything. A girl in his class, he started flirting with, texting, calling. They'd study together. They were together all day at school for months. He decided to end it when he said he was going away for his duty weekend for the guard 2 hours away and she asked him if she could meet up with him there and hang out. He didn't think she was serious until she asked which hotel he would be at. He says nothing happened. I believe him because he told his friend the same, and in secrecy.

I was devasted. I found this out about 2 days after I found out I was pregnant. I was furious. I was heartbroken. But I had decided to have a baby with this man! He said he would never hurt me again, he said he loved me. He didn't want our relationship to end.

This was 7 years ago. I know the signs of an affair are there...but I cannot find any evidence. None at all. I have gone through his emails, I have checked phone logs. I sincerely thought it was his depression or something triggered by his parents separation. I have not snooped his phone. I have been trying to rebuild trust between us since after his first emotional affair and his lack of transparency and honesty with me about his feelings and state of being our entire relationship.

He wakes up early to go to work, he leaves super early so he can be home early and be with us. I always know where he is. I've called him at work this whole time and he's always in his office (up to this point). Or tells me that he will be in a meeting or whatever. He comes straight home. He doesn't guard his cell phone, he doesn't have a password. I can log into his personal email account from my computer, he doesn't care. He just comes home, is miserable, is exhausted, goes to bed early. He's not eating, he's losing weight. all the symptoms of depression are there, and I know how I was in the very deep throes of depression and I can sympathize with the way he feels.

I asked him point blank last week if there was someone else. He said no. I asked him again last night when I came back around midnight. He was sleeping. i was going to steal his phone and snoop, but I was worried he'd catch me. SO I woke him. I asked him again. Is there someone else? Please tell me the truth. He said no, there was no one. I said, "Not even something small, a flirtation? Someone at work you like to talk to ?" he said no. I told him he had until today if he was lying to tell me the truth, asked him if he knew that if I find out it's someone else it will kill me. He said ok, but it's not.

So I can snoop his phone at some point I'm sure. He doesn't hide it or guard it. He just leaves it around. I've been trying to log into his work email from home, but I can't access it. I don't know where he logs in from. I am hoping he has it set up on his phone, but I don't know.

He is dead set that it's over. He says he will try to talk to someone. I confronted him about getting help, because he had said he wanted to talk to someone to see what he wants. I asked him if he called. He said he'd emailed a few times and hadn't heard back. I told him that the therapist I am seeing would be willing to see him and he came back with being worried about "confidentiality" and her separating her opinions about us. This therapist will see us together also, so I am not sure if I will take that route or not or if he even wants to. When I pushed him to see if he called he finally admitted he hadn't. I told him, if he really wanted to feel better he would TRY. That I wasn't going to let him just walk away from this relationship. That I would never have had a kid with him if I'd known there was ever a possibility of having to raise him as divorced parents. I came from a family like that and i never wanted my child to go through that.

So now I am stuck. I don't know what to do. I've been reading all the info here and elsewhere, but it all feels like things that both people have to try to put in. And right now I feel like he doesn't want anything to do with me. That if I try to touch him he will pull away. How do I save my marriage? I love him. He is such a large part of my life, and my son's life. We've been an enviable family to outsiders. I was always giving advice to my sisters an girlfriends about not settling that there are "good" guys out there that will treat them like princesses, like my husband does.

I'm so lost and afraid. Tell me what I am doing wrong or where to go from here. Please help.

Summary:
*Met online 20 years ago, engaged 13 years ago, married 12 y, 7 y/o son, army marriage.
*Affair with classmate happened before you got pregnant, you discovered during pregnancy because you have access to his mail and phone.
*Now all the signs of an affair are there, but you didn't find one yet.
*He has a history of substance abuse and sleeping around.
*You have angry outbursts (I know I have a short temper)
*He had (has?) angry outbursts (volatile relationships)
*History of depression at both sides

How did the previous affair end, do you know who it was with, did it end properly?

Hi there,

The previous affair ended on his terms, before I found out about it. He didn't have any physical relationship with her. I never met her. He had mentioned her name once probably before I found out. I told him that he was never to speak to her again. He said it would be difficult because she was in his class. She actually ended up flunking out or dropping out a few weeks later and he never spoke to her again or saw her again.

The substance abuse and sleeping around all happened and ended before we even started dating. Since he's joined the army he hasn't smoked, or done drugs or anything. He was starting to drink regularly, like 1-2 drinks at night to "unwind" but at the beginning of Sept he decided to stop as at the time he said he was going to try to lose weight, but near the end of the month he told me that it was because he was starting to feel like he was turning into his father, needing a drink to deal and then blocking us out.

You need to put spyware on his phone. Also, put a VAR in his vehicle.

So I was able to access his iPhone back up from iTunes on my computer. I found nothing. I wasn't able to get on his email from my computer, but after he went to sleep I did take his phone and found how to access his work email. There was also nothing there. I'm going to see a psychologist today and I am going to talk to her about what's going on and see if I can figure out where I want to go from here. He is still acting distant and unwilling to talk. I had emailed him a link to the Emotional Needs quiz, and the article about Caring for children requiring the parents to care for each other, but I doubt he will read them.

You're stuck in a terrible nightmare, and you have my sympathy. I've been in the situation where knew something was going on, but could not monitor it.

You cannot give up spying because you have found nothing; all the signs of an affair are there.

Your husband might have another phone that he keeps at work. He shows an unusual degree of openness with his current phone, and that could be the explanation. Is there any way you could sneak a voice-activated recorder into a bag he takes to work? If he goes to the gym at work and takes a bag, or perhaps has a laptop bag, could you find a compartment in which to hide a VAR?

The best thing, though would be to hire a PI. If you tell a PI about his comings and goings, he would know when to watch, and could find the evidence in two days.

Also, check the financial records. He may have a hidden phone. And place a VAR in his car.

If financial records on accounts you know about don't show any unusual activity, also pull his credit report and look for accounts you don't know about.

So it's been about a week, and up until a couple days ago my husband was not guarded with his phone. Boy did that change. I went to look at our Verizon account and the password had been changed. So I went to his gmail account, and the password is also changed. I asked him why he changed the Verizon password and he gave me some [censored] excuse about a notification of hacking from the company or something. I asked him to log me in. I left the room and he logged me in, but then I was getting ready to meet a friend and the way he was acting just made me so angry. I said "Something is going on. I don't know what you are hiding from me but SOMETHING happened". Oh, his phone was on the bed and that password have been changed too. I went out with my friend and when I came home I went to log onto Verizon again. I wanted to see if he'd saved the password. The screen had timed out. I tried to log in. Wrong password. So he had to have clicked "do not save password" when it popped up earlier in the evening. My thoughts are he's probably been texting someone but only iMessages so I couldn't see them. Now he's moved on to calling her, and there will be a record of those calls. He has an hour drive to and from work. This is when I suspect they are chatting.

So after I became even more angry and suspicious, I knocked on his door and barged in, telling him to show me his phone right now. He sat up and because FURIOUS. I told him I know he's changed his passwords, WHY? He started turning it around on me, telling me that he KNEW I was snooping, and that from this moment on I will not be "In his [censored]". I asked him who he was talking to. He denied denied denied. I said that I wasn't stupid, you don't just turn off your feelings to someone after 12 years. WHO IS IT. He said he'd been talking to some people from work because he has no one. First he wouldn't admit if it was women or men. I don't think it's multiple people. I think it's one person. He kept denying it. Well as luck would have it, right as I was standing there his phone buzzed. It was 10:45 pm. He was in bed. I said WHO is texting you at 10:45 in bed? I demanded to see the phone and he refused. Basically we went back and forth and he further revealed that he was texting with a co-worker. That he is just talking to her because he has no one else. I lost it. I told him, you are supposed to talk to ME. We had just done a temporary separation agreement and one of the groundless was no other relationships. I told him that texting another woman in his marital bed at 11 pm about his failing marriage was inappropriate and if it wasn't already an affair it was on it's way there. I told him that he was throwing away our marriage. That of course he won't feel things for me when he's talking to someone else. She is telling him things he wants to hear. I asked him what was the point of the separation? We were going to decide what to do at the end, move forward with reconciliation or divorce? He told me right now, today he wants a divorce. But he said three months is a long time and doesn't know how he'll feel then. I told him that if he continues to follow this path he is on, then it WILL end in divorce, so what would be the point in even waiting. I am so hurt and upset. It is 3 am, and I haven't slept yet because of this. I am shaking I am so hurt. What do I do?

I am currently downloading a key logger onto my desktop, so that the next time he puts in a password I will have a record of it.

I know how much this hurts and I'm sorry you're hurting. You will find out the truth and then that will give you the best plan to fight for your marriage and bust up the affair.

Put a voice atctivated recorder (VAR) in his vehicle.

Also can you get her number and start researching on who she is?

Have you checked all the bank accounts? Make sure you have money. Also, you may want to get a PI to follow him at work. If he has already gotten to a separation agreement, it is likely physical.

So this morning he called me. I was trying to get teen safe on his phone and apple notified him of me logging in. It was either that or trying to sign into messenger from my computer. Either way, I blew it. he called me to ask what I was doing. Last night we didn't finish our "conversation" because my son ran into the room crying, upset that he woke up and we didn't hear him calling us. So I went to bed with him and left my husband there in the room. I just told him that yes, I was trying to access his phone. I felt he'd been lying to me and since he can't be truthful I was trying to snoop. He said he wanted to continue talking. I told him his behaviors are pointing to an affair and not just depression, and that of course he doesn't want to be with me if he wants to be with someone else. He changed back the password on Verizon and told me I could go look. There are two convos from the past 2 days to one number that were both when I wasn't at home and were over an hour long. I asked him if this woman's (who is married) husband would appreciate his wife talking to a married man for over an hour at night. He said no. So I don't know what to do. I told him I need to talk to him. He says that this person is not the reason he wants to separate from me. I wanted to have him read the article about infidelity (part 1) I think? It is text book what he is doing. Is that a bad idea? He seems so tired and apathetic. Like he just doesn't care anymore. I didn't sleep at all last night and I am still shaking.

Oh, I also just looked up her number and I immediately found her name and then her Linkd in profile and FB profile.

You need to slow down and be more strategic here. At this point, all you have done is fly off the handle which is very unattractive and will drive him to her, and give away the fact that you are suspicious so the affair can go more underground.

You need to stop and take a breath. You can fight this if you follow a plan. You will just harm your marriage more if you choose to be a loose canon instead.

I am very sorry you are going through this.

QUIETLY put spyware on the computer. He knows you are trying to do so to his phone so will probably switch to a burner phone at this point. Also, put a VAR in his car, I think you will gain a lot of evidence from this.

Do not confront him or tell him what you are doing. Do not fly off the handle. I know this is hard because you are mad and hurt. But many people here have been able to get the evidence in a strategic stealth manner, you can do this!

Meanwhile, read the Exposure 101 thread in the notable posts section and prepare an exposure list. Go NOW to social media and make a list of exposure targets for OW, she has been tipped off that you know now and will probably be locking those down tight. Do NOT tell your husband or threaten exposure, you do not want to tip your hand anymore than you already have.

Go read up in Exposure 101 (link below). Exposure 101

Stop talking about the affair for the moment. You need start working the strategy in the plan.

forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583#Post2566583

I'm going to remain calm. What do I do if he says he wants to be with her? Or that he no longer wants to try and wants a divorce? I just need some encouragement that we can still survive this. I will look into the VAR as soon as I can get to a store to buy one with cash. Maybe tonight. The key logger on my computer is still up and running, so maybe if I leave the house for a bit tonight he'll use the computer while I am gone.

Stop. Go to Facebook and copy her friends list into a document. Then Read Exposure 101.

Ok I've copied her friends list and saved it as a draft email in an old account he doesn't know I still use. I read Exposure 101 last night while I was not sleeping all night, but I will go back over it again now. Thank you.

You are showing him your hand. Don't confront him, he knows he is having an affair.

This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Thanks for all the advice.

Your marriage can survive this. Dr Harley has created a very strategic plan to kill affairs and recover marriages, he has devised this plan after 40+ years of dealing with marriages damaged by affairs. The more rogue you go from that plan, the less likely your marriage will be to survive. We have seen many times people who just let their emotions guide the way, and it ends up disastrous.

A proper and thorough exposure is the single greatest way to kill an affair. People who muck this step up, or refuse to do it, have a much smaller likelihood of recovering their marriages.

Right now you want to be in what Dr Harley calls 'Plan A.' Plan A is twofold: 1) fill his EN's and avoid lovebusters, show him what kind of marriage he can expect if he stays, be at your best and be the better option, and 2) simultaneously do whatever you can to kill the affair (exposure).

If he says he wants to be with her, remain calm. Tell him that you love him and you are sorry for your part in the failure of your marriage. Tell him that you can create a better marriage than you have ever had, but he must first end his affair with skanky.

Meanwhile, get a VAR in his car pronto. You already have his confession that he is talking to this woman (having an EA), but I am guessing this is far more entrenched than he is letting on. You need to get the evidence so you can expose it properly and he cannot downplay it as a simple friendship. Get your exposure list ready, as soon as you have the evidence you will want to do a full exposure starting with OW's BH.

Thank you, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I am definitely going to go out tonight and get the VAR. I will try to put it in his car while he is asleep. I'm sure my catching him calling and texting her is just going to make him more careful, so I wish I'd maintained my composure, but I will not let it happen again.

Also, another quick question. As far as his ENs are. Do I attempt to have him take the quiz so that I am certain of what they are? I don't know if he will or not, I just don't want to be doing the wrong things. I know he says he doesn't want to work on our relationship at all, so I suppose I'm just confused on how I show affection for example, if he doesn't want to be near me. Thoughts?

You are doing great so far.

Don't worry about letting your emotions get the best of you, we have all been there! But now you know that it is not strategic to do so and you have a plan to follow.

Working on your marriage together in that way, by having him do any MB material for instance, is really not going to help right now when he is involved in an affair.

Affairs are an addiction, just like drugs or alcohol. That addiction is very powerful, it makes people risk their careers, marriages, families, their entire lives sometimes just to feed the high. You can see this in the media all the time, people who risk their entire lives for an OW/OM. What is so special about that person? Nothing, in fact in general people 'affair down' and have affairs with someone who is less desirable than their own spouse. It is the HIGH that they chase, more than the person. This high creates foggy thinking, the affair 'fog.' People who are in the fog do not think rationally, much like a drug addict looking for a fix doesn't think rationally. You can't reason with someone in the fog.

Exposure is waking them up with a cold bucket of water, the water of reality. It is the single greatest method to wake someone up from the fantasy of an affair.

Until you have killed the affair, trying to work rationally on your marriage is just not effective. Which is why killing the affair is step 1.

What have your WH's complaints been about you? Are there specific things he has said he wants that you have not been doing? Are there things you do that he has been asking you to stop doing? Start here.

You can also look at the top EN's for men in general.

Dr Harley does not recommend women being in Plan A for more than 3 weeks. In that 3 weeks you want to do a complete exposure, and if the affair hasn't ended and he hasn't committed to recovery yet, you will want to look at separating. I am guessing exposure will have a great impact in your case, if you do it right. But this Plan A of being wonderful while he is investing in another women will not go on forever. If it comes to separation, you want to leave knowing that you were at your best for 3 weeks and left him a taste of what a great marriage with you could be like (vs fighting and acting emotional and crazy...).

I would suggest you notify the mods to move this to the surviving an affair forum.

I see BrainHurts posted this to you twice. I sure hope you don't continue to ignore this.

I know this has already been touched upon, but STOP trying to talk your WH out of his affair. That does NOT work.

Is there a reason that you are not posting in Surviving an Affair?

She has attempted to put spyware on his phone and got busted. She does have a keylogger on the computer and is working on getting a VAR today in a manner that is untraceable (cash transaction).

Yes I saw that.

Unfortunately, what I have noticed over the years is that people who are posting in MB101 with affair issues tend to want to resolve the problem by meeting ENs and avoiding LBers - even when telling us that they are snooping.

Hopefully that's not the case here.

MrsSmyth, did you get the VAR today?

So I went to look for the VAR yesterday, because Thursday I was unable to leave the house again after my husband came home. I went to Walmart and they only had two, and they were both a little too conspicuous. He is obsessed with his car and it's new, so I'm worried about putting something in there that LOOKS like a recording device, should he find it when cleaning the car or something. I think I'm going to have to figure out how to order one that doesn't look like a recorder. Has anyone used the USB type? That's the one I'm leaning towards because I think I could pop that in his briefcase and that way it would go in the car with him and into the office. I also found an iPhone charger that has a hidden camera that can be watched remotely. Any experience with those? I was thinking of putting it in our bedroom, because it needs wireless to work and I know he doesn't have wireless at work. I'm still hoping I can figure out his iPhone password so I can someone access his iCloud account and connect him to the teensafe tracker. He told me Thursday that he has told these other "people" he can no longer talk to them as he wants to make this decision to be alone "without any outside influence, even subconsciously". He is much more present and himself, and he's slept soundly the past two nights since I confronted him about the password changes, but most likely he's just blowing smoke up my [censored]. I want him to get comfortable again with my acting normal and not suspicious so perhaps he will slip up and leave some evidence. I am thinking about going out tonight and staying out late. I am hoping he hops on my computer at some point while I'm gone and logs into his email. I have the key logger working in the background. Any advice is appreciated.

Oh, also, has anyone done all the surveillance and then not found evidence of an affair while doing Plan A? What do you do at that point? I am strongly considering hiring a PI in a couple weeks if nothing comes up just so I can be certain. But is a PI useful if it's just an emotional affair and not physical? I just want to know the truth.

Use 3M command Velcro strips and stick the VAR under his car seat.

Don't wait a couple of weeks to hire a PI. If you don't have evidence by Tuesday night, call a PI to follow your husband around. He is likely meeting with her on lunch breaks and during work hours. Meanwhile, pull his credit report and check all the bank accounts for suspicious transactions.

In the 6 years I have been on these boards, I have never seen a case where everything pointed to an affair (and in this case you already KNOW because he has admitted it to you), and the BS *diligently* snooped, and did not find any evidence. There is always evidence, sometimes it is just buried better than other times. In your case, I do not think your WH is being super cautious and anticipate a VAR giving you your answer.

Get the VAR and put it under his seat. I don't know anybody who checks under his seat regularly. You don't want it out in the open where he can see it so it isn't really important what it looks like. I would start there right now, you can go to the fancier stuff if you need to but I don't think you will need to.

Do you have your exposure list ready? When you get the evidence, whether it is an EA or a PA, you will want to do one massive exposure. Your most important target will be her BH.

Did you read the exposure 101 thread and are you ready to do this?

Ok the VAR is in. It's underneath the passengers seat. I bought a second one to hide under our bed, I'll put it there later today. I couldn't find any sort of GPS tracking device, which bummed me out because he's going "out" this afternoon to his friends' and I'm feeling like he's being weird about it. He definitely trimmed up his nether region this morning in the shower, because I saw a disposable razor in there after he got out and that's the only thing he uses them for. When I checked again later it was gone. I'm so mad that I didn't get to install the spyware on his phone before he changed his iCloud password. I'm gonna try to get him to use my computer to add some music to my iTunes.

I also wrote down the mileage on his car. He's going to a friend whose house we were at yesterday so I know exactly how many miles it should take him to get there. I was thinking of dropping my son off with my mother and driving by there at some point as well to see if he's there. Thoughts?

Also, I have all of my contacts and most of his on my phone. I just have to go into our Verizon to get some of his friend's numbers. Some of his family I will email. I don't know her BS yet. I have to be sure it's the right woman. He's stopped using his phone to call, so I am not sure how to go about that if he is just texting and the iMessages aren't being recorded. I do have the FB list of the woman whom he had the two long convos with.

Ok, so I've listened to the recording from his room last night and there is nothing there. So I will place it again tonight. I ended up leaving the VAR in his car overnight and all day today, so I will remove it and listen to it tonight after he's gone to bed. I did end up driving by his friend's house, but it was later than I'd hoped and neither car was there. I did take a photo with a timestamp and email it to myself. However, when I got home with my son a couple hours later, he was there already and said he'd been home for a while. The timeline checked out and he had gone out to buy us homemade ice cream. I am going to wait and see what the tape might reveal. Thanks everyone for your help so far

Did you get a chance to check the mileage?

Remind me if he has a work phone or computer he uses? Do you have access to that?

No, I didn't get to check the mileage. He has a desktop computer at work, and he has a phone at work that he uses all day for phone calls. I have no access to either. his work is 1 hour away, is huge and you need an ID to get in. He will check his email from his cell phone and I'm sure he's checked it from my computer at some point, but that was before and now I don't know when the next time he will try to access it from my computer will be. My best bet is somehow getting into his phone, but I'm pretty sure his password is still changed. He uses touch ID and at one point added my sons print to it (because my son insisted), but he might have deleted it. Is it skeevy to try and get my son to use his finger print to open the phone :-P ? I don't know when I'd have access to it long enough, but that's all I can think of right now. My main reason for wanting the USB VAR was so I could put it in his briefcase and maybe hear his work convos.

No its not skeevy. It is skeevy to have an illicit affair while your wife is at home with your young child. It is skeevy to keep secrets from your wife and family. It is skeevy to make your wife go to extreme lengths to find out the truth about her life, and protect her marriage and family.

Let's keep skeevy in perspective here.

You are simply doing what you need to protect your marriage and family, and this includes your son.

This would be great if you can do it. I am quite certain since he knows you are suspicious and have tried to hack his phone, he is carrying on most if not all communications at work where you do not have access.

No I know you are right. The problem I'm having is he's still toting his phone around everywhere he goes. I haven't seen him typing in a password, but I believe he is just holding down his thumb and it is opening up the screen that way. I started listening to the recording from the car. I haven't had a chance to upload it to my computer I have to wait until he isn't home tomorrow. I didn't get a chance to replace the recorder in his car with the other one, I was just going to risk discovery and put one in his briefcase. I asked him on our way to our son's soccer practice if he still brings his briefcase in with him and he said yes, and I joked "even though you don't really use it?" and he laughed and said yes and joked about how he keeps his knife in there (former military, always has one on him), so he takes it in. I thought since he doesn't really use the briefcase I could just put the regular VAR in there. However when I left my room to go outside to put it in there, he came out of our bedroom, saying he heard noises. Unfortunately our bedroom is situated right next to the driveway and our cars are visible from the window (ranch). I was afraid he'd catch me if I tried to go out, especially since he sleeps with the window open.

I got a return call from a lawyer today for a consultation but they sent me to voicemail when I called back, so I will try tomorrow again. I also had partially filled out a form for a PI, but then chicken out....well they called me since I'd put my number in there already. I got some info and the guy said he'd check back in with me in a couple days. I want to do it, but it's so expensive, and what if he's backed off since I caught him late last week? Would it be wiser to wait a few more days or a week for him to feel secure again before I spend all that money? And is $99/hour about the going rate? Does anyone have experience with hiring a PI? I just want to know the truth. Tonight he was distant from me again and talking about how he couldn't sleep again last night and how our talk last week was "just a bandaid" ...he has an appointment with his therapist tomorrow afternoon. I don't know. I am just so lonely and sad tonight. I was reading about the signs of cheating (instead of sleeping, like I should be), and he's fit everything - and the way he's treating me is hurting me so deeply. Just a few weeks ago he was mine and now he feels like a total stranger.

Here Private Investigators

Thanks, I put in a request. I have contact with another company as well. I just found a Sears MasterCard I had been avoiding activating because I really don't like to use credit cards. I haven't used it in so long my credit limit has shrunk down but it's still 2k, so maybe I will use it to hire the PI.

As of now, listening to the VAR from his car, there is nothing there. Just music and his audio book, no phone calls or any convos whatsoever.

I changed the email address to our Verizon account to be mine so that he couldn't lock me out again and he got notified and called me immediately. He said he was worried someone "hacked" us. I just told him that I wanted to be able to access the account, so I made it my email if that was ok with him, and he said that was fine, just wished I'd told him. I said I was going to tell him later. He said he "wants" me to have access to it.

I feel like I am falling apart. If nothing comes out of the snooping I don't know if I can keep living with him in the house like this. He just stopped loving me and it's killing me.

Have you searched his briefcase? Maybe he is carrying it with him because he hides a second phone there. Having a separate untraceable 'affair phone' is quite common.

Something happened. I'm sure everything is messed up now. I'm sorry, everything fell apart.

He called me after he said it was ok that I changed the email of the phone and told me he was "done" that he felt backed into a corner, that he didn't want to be with me anymore. That he didn't need any more time, he knows he's done with me. That I don't believe his own words and that he's not having an affair that he just doesn't want to be with me. I lost it and I told him that I was packing up his stuff and putting it outside and when he comes home he can get it and he needs to find somewhere else to live. Everything fell apart. I went and bought boxes and locks (although legally I don't think I can change them so I'm not), and put his stuff outside. I told him I can't live like this, waiting, not knowing anymore. It's killing me. I told him not to call me anymore and he asked me when he could see our son and I said I don't know, that he's the one who's choosing to rip our family apart so he's going to have to get used to not being able to see him whenever he wants. That he can contact me when he decides he wants to keep his family together.

I know I just did everything wrong, but can you please help me? I don't even know if I want to be with him anymore, if he doesn't want to be with me and he doesn't love me. I had just made an appointment with a PI to figure out when to have him monitored, she is still supposed to come tomorrow at noon. I don't know what to do. I've never felt so lost in all my life

Calm down.

He called you in the first place because he knows you are trying to monitor him and he is panicking. He is panicking because he is having an affair and he doesn't want to you to find out and blow it up.

This is exactly what you need to do.

You have gotten a bit sidetracked, you let your emotions get the best of you. YOU NEED TO STOP LETTING THIS HAPPEN. But the plan stays the same, so get back to it.

Hire that PI and get him followed asap. It can be expensive, but divorce is much more expensive.

I would absolutely check the VAR tonight, perhaps he will call OW from the car because of the panic.

What do I need to do? Make him leave? Is this right? He just told my son on the phone we are getting a divorce.

His stuff is already outside.

Go outside and get his stuff and put it back. But keep the boxes and locks because you may need them in the near future. Just call him and tell him you are sorry for your outburst, that you have changed your mind and you do not want him to move out. You will not go along with his plans to end your marriage.

Once he leaves it will be much more difficult to find out the truth and do this the right way.

You need to calm down, first of all. You really cannot let your emotions get the best of you like this.

1. Get evidence of the affair.
2. Expose the affair far and wide.

This is your Plan AprilMay, this is all you need to focus on. Become an emotionless robot who is hellbent on following this plan, until it is done.

How do I let him back, I can't! I can't. This is awful.

Can you control your emotions?

Yes. I can. I just. I hear his disdain for me in his voice. I can't live in this house with him. It's already been 3 weeks since he told me he doesn't want to be with me.

I don't think you should get his stuff and tell him you did not mean what you said. I think you should mean what you said.

You have not got to the bottom of whether there is an affair, but his behaviour is affecting your mental health, and he has told you he does not want to be with you. For those reasons, you should not put yourself through another second of torture. Follow through with putting him out. You need to go to Plan B today, and shield yourself from any more pain. Even if he is not having an affair, he is not showing care for you and has told you he wants out. Don't ask him to stay.

He told you that because he is having an affair.

He has disdain for you because he is having an affair.

Trust me, this living in the house while he carries on an affair will be over soon. Once you have gotten the evidence and exposed the affair, if he does not end it and commit to the marriage, THEN you can change the locks and go into a dark Plan B. But I really don't want to see you do that and brush this affair that he is clearly having with his coworker under the rug.

This can still be saved, but the affair has to die first. That is why you need to put 100% of your effort into following the plan and getting the evidence.

Call the PI right now and find out how soon he/she can start.

Well I see the SugarCane and I are giving you different advice. She has more experience with this and so I will tell you to listen to her if that is what she thinks.

I would still hire the PI asap though. You still have a chance of getting this evidence.

Thank you, both of you. I am going to still meet with the PI tomorrow. I will charge it if I have to find out the truth.

Thank you, I am still going to meet with her tomorrow.

Do I make him take his bloody dog with him? This thing stresses me out beyond all hell. I'm only half kidding.

I just know how fierce Dr Harley fights for the protection of a woman's mental and physical health, when she is facing an affair that will not end immediately. I know the poster does not have the name of the co-worker nor sight of the messages, to see how far this affair has gone, but I think we know enough to know that there definitely is an affair. No co-worker should be texting his phone at 10.45PM, or, if it's a legitimate workplace emergency, her husband should have no hesitation in showing her the text. He has had an affair before, after all, and should not wonder why she would be suspicious.

There is plenty of evidence of an affair of some kind. Her husband is being cruel with his words and behaviour, and this is affecting the poster's mental health. I think Dr Harley would tell her to protect herself from this right now. Further evidence might or might not emerge some day, but it is not worth her while suffering until it does, or, indeed, fighting for him. Dr Harley does not recommend that wives fight for unfaithful husbands; it is ineffective, and detrimental to the health of the wives.

Of course you do.

Thank you, my BFF just said the same. I am sending the dog with him. He can deal with him.

AprilMay12:

From what I've read so far, I'd recommend Plan B. Granted, it may have been a good idea to have him experience you in plan A for the next few weeks, but things have probably gone too far for that right now. It's very unlikely that your husband is in any mood to end his affair, and inviting him back home might only cause you to be stressed to a point of a breakdown. Having him away from you for awhile will help you gather your thoughts and plan for the next few weeks with intelligence rather than emotion. Exposure is a good idea, but make sure that you've read exposure 101 carefully. I have also written an article entitled, "When Should an Affair Be Exposed. Read that too. Write to mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and Joyce and I can provide more specific guidance to you.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

Thank you so much Dr. Harley. I have been trying to implement plan A for the past week or so, and I have been pleasant and supportive and a happy wife as much as possible since he told me three weeks ago. He even told me that he doesn't like when we are happy and having a good day because it probably give s me the wrong idea that things are fine, when they are not. Which is heartbreaking to hear. I appreciate your support and guidance. Thank you.

He called and I stupidly answered. He asked what to expect when he gets home and I said that his stuff is outside and he can find somewhere else to live, and take his dog. When I reminded him he had told me that if the separation arrangement wasn't working that he said he would leave, just to let him know, that he had people he could stay with, he almost chuckled like it was joke. He asked me if I was using my son as a weapon against him. I said no. I repeated that he was to take his items and leave and then hung up. I don't know what will happen now.

April, I am just catching up on your thread. I don't think you did the wrong the thing in speaking to him. I would stick this out and be very firm but very polite when he comes to get his things.

I would strongly suggest you call the locksmith tomorrow and get your locks changed too. If not, he will be free to wander in and out of your home which will drive you nuts.

Thank you Melody. I actually bought new keyed door handles at Home Depot when I got the boxes. Should I change them? Or wait til after he leaves the house? I don't think I can legally, but does it matter at this point?

Yes, you can legally change your locks. I would go ahead and get this done before he comes home if you can.

ok

I don't know if I have time before he gets here and I don't want him to walk up on me doing it. I think I will just wait and see what happens and then change them tonight after my son goes to bed.

Can you at least change the deadbolt quickly?

Sounds good! At least you have a plan.

So, he came, put all his things in the car and then called and asked if he could see our son. I let him come to the door to say goodnight. Then he asked to talk to me outside. So I went out. He asked me why I was being vengeful and wasn't there a different way we could do this. I told him that I've been waiting a month, and I can't continue living with him like this, as it's detrimental to my health and sanity and that it's killing me. That I can't live with him, hoping he will change his mind, when he doesn't want to be with me. He kept telling me he didn't want this to be nasty, that he cares about me, that he wants to give me space, but he doesn't want this to be this way.

I stood fast and told him I couldn't have him in the house anymore and that he could leave behind whatever he didn't have room for in the garage and come back to get it later. That I would get a mediator to figure out when he can see our son, because I can't talk to him anymore. He doesn't want to involve any other people, he thinks we can "figure this out" on our own. I said, I don't think so. I told him he's hurt me deeply. He said he didn't want this for our son, and I said neither did I. That I wanted a mother and father who love each other and live in the same home for him.

He left without the dog. He had no space for him. I told him we will figure it out in the coming days, through email most likely. I don't know what else to do now. Just wait? I signed up for a salsa class that begins tomorrow. My sister is coming to watch my son and then she is going to spend the night here. She works part time for me so she was going to be here Thursday morning anyway. Hopefully she can keep him occupied so I can get some work done.

I still have a meeting with the PI tomorrow at noon and I began calling lawyers today. I am going to keep looking for one that I click with, because the one I spoke to today I didn't really feel great about.

Thanks everyone for your help and any advice is greatly respected and appreciated.

You did good.

Have you seen this?
How to Plan B Correctly

The Plan B letter from SAA is in that thread as well.

Do you have someone that can act as an IM so you don't have to communicate with him? I think communicating with him is going to cause you more pain.

April, you did fantastic in holding your ground. I would get the locks changed tomorrow so he doesn't come in. Study up on Plan B and make preparations to go into a dark separation. You will want to enlist the help of an intermediary who will facilitate all communications. Do you have someone in mind who can agree to act as a spam filter?

Once you find an intermediary, you can send him a Plan B letter with a visitation schedule. He can pick up your son and drop him off from the drive way so that you don't have to communicate directly with him.

Once you send the Plan B letter cutting off all contact, you can expect him to get very upset about losing control over you. He will try to get through to you and will initially refuse to use your IM. [very typical] When that happens, you need to be prepared to hold your ground and not let him contact you directly. He will start using the IM once he sees you are serious.

Thank you for the support and advice. I guess today I'm gonna hire the PI to do some surveillance on him, although I'm worried she won't find anything. If I don't get any hard evidence of an affair, how do I write the Plan B letter? Do I just talk about him hurting me and omit the affair verbiage?

I will change the locks today also.

I don't really have anyone here that could be an IM that isn't involved already. He has no family near by and all of mine is flabbergasted and devastated about what is going on. I may be able to ask a cousin or aunt/uncle that doesn't know yet, but I'm not sure once I tell them that they can be non-emotional about it. We don't have any close friends in the area either. I'm not sure what to do. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Yes. But I really do think there is an affair so I wouldn't give up quickly.


Good!


Do you have a close friend who would agree to act as a neutral spam filter? She doesn't have to live in the area because all communication can be handled via email.

Melody, I am not going to give up to discover if there is an affair. When does the letter need to be written by? Like within a week?

Ok, so I just need someone that he can email that will then email me? I will have to think of someone that i think might be able to do that. Thank you.

I would send it this weekend after you have all your plans laid out. For example, you need to line up an IM, set up a child visitation schedule, make arrangements so he can't get through to you.


This person will act as a spam filter and only pass on PERTINENT information about child visitation and finances. Your husband will be sending manipulative, gaslighting tirades to you along the lines of "He doesn't want to involve any other people, he thinks we can "figure this out" on our own. " He will call you immature for not "co-parenting" [a mythological construct devised by lazy court bureaucrats] with him and try to make you feel like a bad parent. This type of communication should never get through to you. Your IM has to agree to never send this stuff to you.

When he sends you pertinent information about finances, children, she would email you a SUMMARY in her own words. She has to first determine if the communication is absolutely necessary. I can also volunteer to help your IM through any difficult patches. Usually when I help them through the first diffccult patch [usually some kind of threat from the wayward] they relax and handle it with ease.

You can use your sister if she will agree to remain neutral with him. She doesn't have to BE neutral, she would have to be neutral in her communications with him, no lecturing or fighting with him.

hoping that unwritten comes back. She has been giving you SUPER advice since you arrived. She is a rockstar!!

Ok, I will see which sister I should use. I have three. I think one of them would be able to do that.

I guess I am just struggling with obtaining the evidence of an affair. What if kicking him out made him stop? If I have it investigated and nothing comes up, do I give up looking? I don't want to spend too much money, as now I'm worried that we will divorce and I have a finite number of resources.

What do I do if he emails me or texts?

First off, kicking him out won't make the affair end. And I agree you don't want to run yourself dry but you need to do what you CAN to get the evidence.


For NOW, you would answer them. When you go into Plan B, you should block his direct access somehow, even if it means changing your #. You should be able to bounce his emails.

Thank you. Sorry for all the questions!

They are good questions!!

He is unlikely to stop an affair because he is addicted to it. If anything, he will have more time for it. The PI should be able to find the evidence. I'm not sure if you checked his credit report. Make sure you record the amounts in all accounts. If you need to move money to a new account at a new bank, do.

I just met with the PI. She is going to go by his friend's house tonight to see if that's where he staying. On Friday she will go to his work and watch to see what he does there and where he goes after. She's going to update me as things progress.

I have looked through our accounts. He gets his paycheck direct deposited. He gets VA disability and that is also direct deposited. I have not seen any payments to other cards, bills, etc. We have always had open access to all the money, and it's always been both of ours, regardless of source. I am going to look at his credit report, but I don't think I will find anything there. He did take $80 in cash out of an ATM this past weekend. He used it to go to dinner, but I don't know why he took out so much. He had also recently asked if we could "budget" for him to be able to buy car parts and fix his car (he has a classic car he is building). It seemed weird and I'm wondering if that was gonna be his cover up for taking money out without my being suspicious.

I moved some money from our main account to my own bank. I had just closed all my own cards last month and put all our money into his bank, because I was being charged all sorts of fees. I feel so stupid that I did that. Luckily they couldn't close one of mine the day I went in, because I had an open transaction. So I'm using that card now.

He emailed asking if he could see our son tonight. I don't know what to tell him.

Tell him yes. Ask for pick up and drop off times and tell him you will send the boy out to his car. "I ask that you respect my wishes for no contact at this time. It is too painful."

You WANT your son to have visitation and want to always be very cooperative in that sense.

I would also start working on a visitation schedule that you will send with your Plan B letter. You need it be very CONCRETE, because you don't want to be negotiating visitation schedules over and over again. that will be a nightmare. Just do it once and get it right.

Such as: monday & wednesday for a few hours and Saturday afternoon for a few hours. No overnights until he gets his own place.

When I say "few hours" I mean you pick out the times, ie: 5 - 7, 1-4. You need to be very strict about this.

Thank you, I told him he could come and take him to dinner and gave him a window when he can get him and what time he has to be home by. I will start to figure out a schedule.

I found a friend willing to be the IM. We've actually never met in person, but she is a fellow designer and friend and we chat daily (have for nearly 3 years). She is a very straight-forward, no [censored] type, so I think she will work out well. What should I send her to know what to expect?

For your IM:
Intermediary Training School

For you:
How to Plan B CORRECTLY

Did you read this that I already posted to you?

It also has the IM training link in the Plan B thread that you can send to your IM.

Thank you, yes, I wasn't sure if that was all she needed. I appreciate it

You can also tell her that I am offerng to help her navigate any difficult situations. I have done this many times over the years and am glad to help. Being an IM is the easiest job in the world if you do it right. Waywards can be scary and threatening and I can help her navigate those situations. If oyu want this help, just click "notify" and give the moderators your email address and ask them to pass it onto me. I will email you.

Basically I will teach her what to say to avoid any conflicts or fights in case he tries to pick a fight with her or bully her. I will help her maintain a very neutral front.

Will she agree to support your Plan B? The last thing you can afford is an IM who falls for WS manipulations and tries to persuade you to break your Plan B. Believe me he will try everything to get you to break Plan B!

Hi Melody,

Yes, she supports me. I have been keeping her updated on everything and she is very supportive of me and on my side about everything. I think sometimes she's madder at him than I am, and they haven't ever met! She is very practical, and steadfast so I think she will do the job well.

My husband tried to talk to me after dropping off our son. He kept saying he isn't doing "this" to hurt me and that he is sorry, that he's devastated and he's not eating or sleeping. I didn't really know what to say. I just let him talk and told him that we will figure out a schedule for our son, and that he can see him on Saturday.

After he left, I went to a salsa class tonight. I've never done anything like that before. I just signed up and went, by myself. I had a great time, I felt really happy and alive, even though I was alone. Sometimes I feel like I can be alone and be happy. Then I swing back into the depths of despair. It's such a rollercoaster!

I understand completely! A few weeks into Plan B you should start feeling better than you have in a long time. But it will be an adjustment period for the first 3 weeks.

Here we go....

The PI went to his work today. Nothing happened all day. Around 3pm she saw the woman I described leave the parking lot in her car. She said she saw someone else in the car, but she didn't know who and couldn't tell if it was my husband. She stayed to watch my husband's car. An hour later she came back and dropped him off at his car!! It was him! They left together for an hour! She said she couldn't see inside the car as she was behind them, but she got pics and videos of him getting out of her car. What do I do??? He's in town for the weekend and is supposed to get my son all day tomorrow. Do you think I should have her follow him on Sunday if he knows my son is not going to be available? Otherwise there is Monday, and she was gonna go later in the afternoon, cause that seems to be when they would repeat the behavior, but it's also Halloween and she has kids (probably aged 12-15 ish), and my WH wants to see our son dressed up as well, so they might not do anything?? I don't have a ton of money to spend but I want to get hard evidence before I expose him.

Also, should I wait to do the letter until I've got the evidence of an affair so I can word it that way? My heart is pounding out of my chest.

You should have him followed tomorrow. If he is bold enough to go with her during work when he knows you are aware he is u to something, he will use his first free day the same way if OW is able to meet with him.

Have you checked the financials? Did you copy her FB friends?

Well tomorrow he has my son all day, and will be in town. His work is an hour away. I was considering having him followed on Sunday because he is currently staying at a friends in town and if he doesn't have my son I can see him driving down there to meet up with her. But she is also married with children so I doubt they'd go to her house. I am not sure what to do. i was thinking of telling him he can take my son for the day on Sunday too, and then just having the PI follow him again on Monday.

I do have her FB friend list copied, yes. I'm gonna make an email list and call list this weekend of everyone else.

Have him followed on Sunday or Saturday after he brings your son back.

Have you checked the financial records?

Yes, there isn't anything there except the last time he took cash out he took out $80 for one dinner. So that's a lot. He normally uses his card for everything. There are no new cards or anything on his credit report.

If you can only pay to have him followed once, then you need to decide when he is most likely to see OW. It would be unlikely that this is a day when either of them might be with their kids.

If you could do a few hours on Sunday, and if she gets nothing, then Tuesday, you should do that. If you absolutely cannot afford both, then Tuesday. This time, the PI would follow the car, obviously.

Well I think I can swing it. What would you recommend? Don't you think that I should have her follow him Sunday? Like let him take my son for a couple hours in the morning and have her follow him after that?

Do you think Monday is a bad idea? She actually said they had their cars parked next to each other. That would mean she'd have to get there early enough to get a spot next to him as he gets there very early. Could they be getting together in the morning? Should I have her go there earlier?

Have her go there when she is the most likely to catch them.

That's the simple answer. Does the PI have any thoughts on this?

Yes, we've decided to stick with Monday, same timeline as Friday and then if nothing do the same on Tuesday. I'm getting nervous about the inevitable exposure. I have no idea how he'll react. I'm scared.

I KNOW how he will react. He will be furious. And you will be fine! It is like bringing in a crowd of people to the crackhouse to watch the crackheads get high. They are furious because you ruin their high!!

Right, yes. I know, I guess I am just nervous. So quick question, I am not in plan B yet, I want to wait for the evidence to be in hand before I go dark. He has my son right now and said he wants to talk to me after he drops him off. I think about living arrangement. I am going to make it clear he is not moving in here again without a commitment to the marriage (and I am sure he is not going to agree to that since he's still in the throes of his affair). So I'm just going to be pleasant but firm. My question is this. It's stupid really. Literally the same day that he told me he wanted to be "alone" (so about 2 weeks ago), I had taken my wedding/engagement ring to be resized at the jeweler. I hadn't worn it in a few years because I had gained weight and it no longer fit. I was trying to lose the weight before resizing. I finally decided to just get it fixed so I could wear it. Well they were supposed to call me with an estimate, and they didn't. They just had it adjusted. They called me and I just went to pick it up. My question is, do I wear it? Do I let him see me wearing it? Do I take it off until we reconcile? This might seem like a silly thing to worry over, but he's going to notice it since I haven't worn it in years.

Oh, and if anyone can link me to successful exposure/reconciliation threads, that would be awesome. I'd just like to read through some. I tried to use the search function but I don't think I know how to do it properly. Thank you so much in advance.

You can't discuss anything with him until you have all the facts because you can't make such a commitment until you know what is being hidden. He will likely give you any "commitment" to day to get back in. I would not have any such discussion at all right now because he is not being honest.

As far as the ring, I would just do whatever you want.

Thanks, Melody. He just showed up and I still have the ring on. So I will keep it on. Thanks for the advice. I will avoid any discussions about our relationship.

My Exposure story, I listened to Melody and SuzieQ and the others. It was hard for me, really hard. You are strong and headed in the right direction. I found out about the affair in Jan and didn't expose until May. All that time he claimed he had ended the affair and yet he was continuing his SSL and affair right under my nose. When I finally exposed, it was the end of the affair. My WH was able to be honest and tell me he was addicted to the OW and that he wanted it over and done. OW was furious, threatened me, told me I was holding my husband hostage and he was her man. One of the worst days of my life was having her call me and say those things. And the BEST day because my WH had to hear them and respond. The fantasy ENDED with those simple little expose letters. Don't let him lie to you. He will, he will do whatever, Once you get the proof listen to Melody and the others and follow through. You will feel so much freer and clearer and calmer.
Trust these people, they know and they understand.

AprilMay, you can left click on any of our screen names, and then also left click to view posts. Then you can click back to the beginning of our earliest posts here on MB.

There are many successful exposure threads here.

DH wanted to talk after our son went to bed. He was going around about how we couldn't afford to have he house and him have an apartment. I don't know, but he was talking about divorcing and everything, and it just occurred to me - maybe I should just let it go. Maybe I just let him go. I don't know if I can handle this pain anymore. I told him it wasn't a good idea to talk anymore. I told him he had to leave. He will absolutely be enraged when I expose him, and he already finds me controlling and I'm sure that we will never recover from that. I should just prepare myself for the fallout and that he will never want to be with me anymore.

After I get the evidence for the affair, do I confront him at all or do I go directly to plan B and expose at the same time? I guess I am confused at the timing. He is going to hate me, I know, but I don't want to live this lie anymore. I can't take it. I need to not ever see him or talk to him anymore, and I need everyone to know what he is choosing to do to our family.

It is just the opposite. The reason he doesn't want to be with you NOW is because of his affair. Exposure will kill/hasten the death of his affair. Once his affair is dead, he will wnat to be with you again. Your marriage can survive his temporary anger over exposure; it can't survive an ongoing affair.

He needs to prepare for the fact that you will never take him back unless he ends his affair and makes radical changes in his lifestyle that will ensure this never happens again.

EVery recovered marriage on this forum attributes it to exposure. It gives you the BEST chance of recovery. It is no guarantee, but it is the best chance you have. Dr Harley, who has specialized in infidelity for 45 years says:




I would first expose the affair and THEN confront him. At that time you can DEMAND he end his affair and find another job. When he refuses you will need to send him a Plan B letter giving him a path back and shutting off all contact.

i understand that exposure is scary, but what is more scary is getting divorced and enabling the affair. You may decide in the end to get a divorce.

You have let him go. He is gone. The whole reason we coached you to put him out is so you can go into Plan B and stop the pain. As soon as you uncover the facts, we will help you a) expose and b) go into Plan B so you will be protected from the emotional pain

Yes, thank you. I was very upset right now after he left. I am sick of that feeling. I feel so helpless whenever I talk to him. And I've been doing great. And when he saw me this evening he told me that I "looked really pretty". what is that??? Some sort of manipulation/mind game?

I just sincerely hope that whatever evidence the PI gets is so concrete that it will just blow up this whole thing. I just am still in shock that this is even my life right now.

So I have a question. He had wanted to talk about our living arrangement and I told him he has to stay out of the house, which he obviously doesn't like. My sister has a rental property and she had offered to let him live there at a discounted rate, on a month to month basis. I brought up to him and he told me that he'd have to "swallow" his pride to accept. It's a bit farther from work for him, but so is his friend's house where he is staying now, which is apparently not a problem for him. Suddenly, this place would be. No matter that it's way closer to us and our son so he would be able to see him more frequently and have overnights. So he said he would think about it. That was before our conversation deteriorated and I asked him to leave.

I am sure he will contact me here in the next day or so. It seems whenever I make a move to make him follow through with his desires to leave me, he tries to maintain more contact with me. He's called me and texted me more the past 3 days he's been out of the house than he had in the 3 weeks since he told me he wanted out.

So, what do I do when he contacts me if it's before I expose/Plan B? I really almost want to revoke the offer, because he's being such a [censored]. If he doesn't want to find a solution so that he can more readily see our son, then why should I be helping him? I think most of my problem is that I am constantly trying to help him fix his. He has some whacky idea in his head that we can peacefully divorce, and remain a family unit somehow and stay friends. He told me last night that what he wants is for everything to stay the same, but everything to change (and admitted how that was impossible).

I mean, at this point I am looking forward to going dark. I have given this man the best years of my life and this is how he repays me. I am so tired of it.

He is just reading the wayward script. They all say those things.

crazy things Waywards say

Oh yeah, everything he is doing or saying is so by the book it's almost humorous. Like he must really think I am stupid.

First off, you should stop talking to him about where he is going to live, that is his problem entirely.

Secondly, the reason he is contacting you more is becuase he senses he is losing control over you. He doesn't like that. When you go into Plan B, he will initially go NUTS and refuse to communicate through an intermediary. Just expect that and be prepared to overcome that conflict. [I will help you through this]

Lastly, every cheater wants to be "friends" with his spouse so he will feel LESS GUILTY. He will feel much better about destroying yoru marriage if you will just be his "friend, or "coparent." It is a classic TACTIC. It is not in your best interest to be his "friend." It will destroy your mental health.

As you read around the forum, you will be utterly shocked at how scripted these waywards are. They all say the same things.

I think he is planning to meet up with her today. I just checked our account and he took out another $80 from an ATM and filled up his car with gas. I think he did the same last weekend and lied to me about going to dinner with his friend. I think his friend is covering for him. I think he is meeting her at a hotel. I so wish my PI would follow him today but we didn't plan on it and I don't think she can now. What do I do?

Call and ask, the worst she can do is say she isn't available.

Yea, I asked and she can't

My son just asked if WS could come over to carve pumpkins with us. So I just texted him asking if he would do that.

Why?

I assumed you were already in plan B and didn't understand why you would invite him over. After re-reading your thread I realize you are not in plan B yet.

NO, don't do that, April. Don't invite him in the house. That is setting a very dangerous precedent. Keep him out of the house.

It is ok to communicate with him via phone and text for time being until you go into Plan B, but you don't even need him coming into your home playing "happy family." That hurts you, your son and your husband. It causes you more pain and it gives your son and your H false expectations. It also allows your H to feel better about his destructive activities, which you do not want to do!

Well he told our son he couldnt come anyway. I suppose his other activities are more important at this point! I will not invite him over again. I plan to be in plan B by the end of the week once I get the evidence.

So here's another question. Should I be preparing to file for a legal separation or file divorce papers? I have a feeling when I expose him he will immediately want to file for divorce. Would it be better if I was ahead of him on that? Although I live in NY and from what I've read most divorces are processed as no-fault, so I don't think it matters who files first? He's just been spending a LOT of money this week and I'm worried he will spiral once I expose him.

He also said something to me about being so down and thinking of hurting himself. WTF, like I need to be worried about that too on top of everything else. I think it's a tactic of trying to make me feel bad for him maybe?

You will want to file for divorce in order to get legal protection. You don't want him to wipe you out financially. BUT, you don't have to do this beforehand. In NY, you can file on grounds of adultery.


If you think he is going to try something, call 911 on him.

Ok, I will just expose and then let you lovely people guide me. I'm sorry for all the questions!!

Don't be sorry!! They are very good questions. You can ask us a million questions as long as you are serious about taking action, WHICH YOU ARE! I never mind helping someone who is serious.

i know this is very tough right now, but I promise you it will be better. We will help you do everything to give you the best chance of saving your marriage. And if that doesn't work out, we will help you safely recover.

My IM backed out. I think she doesn't want to feel weird getting in the middle. I don't know who to ask now. I feel like it shouldn't be a big deal, but it sort of is.

Do you have a sister who could present a neutral front? She would have to agree to only act as a spam filter.

Are you doing okay April? Did the PI find the evidence you need? Are you exposing today?

I'm not doing really that well. The PI didn't get anything, and so I am at a loss. I am taking a break for a few days in order to decide if I want to pursue getting evidence or just cut my losses, and let him go. I can't expose without any evidence, so not sure where to go from here.

I know that seeing him or being around him at all is hurting me. I just want the truth. Why can't he grow a pair and just tell me the [censored] truth. I deserve at least that.

So I am having the PI watch him tomorrow afternoon again and Saturday morning as he said he was going to go "hiking", an activity he has almost literally never had an interest in. So we'll see what happens next.

AM, you really do need to get the evidence, regardless of waht you decide. If you do get divorced, I don't think you want to be sharing your child with the skank who broke up your family. You have to get the evidence and expose regardless of your decision.

Oh yes, I know. I am moving forward with the PI.

So just now I saw that he bought himself a book on Amazon. It's called "No more Mr. Nice Guy". Apparently he's identifying some of his problems in therapy, as I'm sure his therapist is the one who advised him to purchase the book.

I really sincerely hope something comes of the PI surveillance this weekend.

Had him watched after work and nothing. I am losing hope and money.

This is very frustrating. You know he is having an affair, right?

When is he going hiking? Is that on Saturday? Are you going to have the PI follow him then?

So I am an idiot. I had a hunch something was going down tonight and I should have had the PI just wait and see. Well, I called it off, and then later tonight my sister was in the area and drove by and his car was gone. She called me, I was at a friend's about 20 minutes away. So I also drove by, still gone. This was around 12am. I had called off the follow for tomorrow, because I just wanted to stop. He went home, I was tired of paying for nothing. I'm tempted to drive by there in a few hours, like 5 or 6 am, since he told me he was going to "sleep in" and then "go hiking". So when he comes over to pick up my son, I can see what he says about the hiking and when he went. Or something. I don't know. I am having the PI look into a GPS device.

Or call him from the driveway at 5:30 am and say "Hi I'm at Kyle's where are you?" . ha. I know that's not right.

My sister had to take my brother in law to work early today, near there. She drove by again around 7am and his car was not there. He had told me he was going to "sleep in" and "go hiking" in the am. So now it's been confirmed that he did not spend the night there. I am having my PI order a GPS device to track him. But it costs $150/day. I don't know when to have her put it on, but dammit I am spending so much money and I'm getting so frustrated.

He spent the night with her. And I am devastated. I was lying in bed alone, remembering back to less than 2 months ago, and how he would snuggle me in bed every single night. And now I picture them together, while I am alone. Home, with my son, and he is god knows where.

And my biggest trigger is being cheated on and left because my father was a serial cheater and philanderer, and abandoned me both physically and emotionally. This is literally the most devastating thing he could ever do to me and I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive him.

Do you know where the OW lives? Can the PI go there and see if his car is there?

I do, but it is an hour away near his work. And she is married. I think one or two of her children still live at home. They are probably at a third location, is my guess, although I could be wrong of course. My PI was unavailable to go down there, but I thought about it. But I didn't want to subject my son to over two hours in the car to possibly find nothing, and then what would I do with him if I did find something. Plus my WH is coming to pick my son up at lunch time and I didn't think I had enough time.

I am sorry you are going through this. It sucks, most of us know

As hard as it may be, try to remain composed when you exchange your son and don't give away the fact that you are having him spied on. The less he knows the easier it will be to get the evidence. Can you have someone else do the exchange today?

No, but I can act. I have been all this time. I don't know. I almost don't care at this point. I want to tell him that I know and tell him I am divorcing him. I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive him. I should get hard evidence even if I choose to divorce him, right? I mean, how much more could it possibly hurt.

If you can get hard evidence it would be the best case scenario, even if you divorce.

For one reason, because even if you know he was having an affair, he will spin the story to others. The more evidence you have the less he will be able to do that. He will also spin the story to you and cause you to doubt your own sense of reality and question whether you are doing the right thing.

If you get the evidence, you will not need to decide right away about divorce. You can expose the affair wide and far and then go into a dark separation. You can decide to divorce at any time.

Yes, I just was talking to my sister and she said that if I have the hard evidence I will never have to doubt myself. I will know the truth. I will know I'm making a decision based on the truth and not assumptions, innuendo or imagination. I don't know. I am going to get an attorney this week and try to figure out what else I need to do to get my ducks in a row. That will give me something to do while I wait for more evidence.

April, you must stay committed to getting the evidence so you can kill this affair. Regardless of your choice, you don't want to have to deal with a wayward spouse in divorce proceedings. Just imagine how you will feel if you file for divorce and he suddenly "meets" a new woman [the suspected OW] and eases her into your child's life? Your child will have to accept this woman even though you suspect she is the homewrecker who ruined his parents family.

You have to find out the truth and get the evidence.

If you can get the truth, there is a strong chance you can save your marriage if you chose. Getting the truth gives you options. Not knowing leaves you groping around blindly in the dark.

Yes, I am going to get the proof. To be honest, I am afraid of exposing now. Especially before confronting him. I just don't know what I am getting myself into. At this point I don't know if I want to save our marriage. I want the truth, for sure, but if he wants to go and be with her and leave me - all I want is for him to know that *I* know the truth. After that I don't think I will have a problem telling my family and his family that we are divorcing because of his being unfaithful. I would have all her details, so they would know. I just don't know about leaving the door open to reconcile, or telling them I want to take him back and that I will forgive him if he ends it, because I don't know if that's true anymore. I also know I would probably want to let her BS know. Because I would want someone to tell me. I am waffling. I feel like once i have the truth, will I feel strong enough to expose them out of the blue without confronting him first? Will I be able to handle the wrath? The rejection and pain? (Trust me I know it's all there now, already, even in small doses, and he is already GONE, but still). It's a lot to deal with and I go back and forth about what to do, minute by minute. And I am suffering.

You won't have to deal with the fallout or wrath from him. You can expose and go immediately into Plan B where you have no contact with him, and you won't have to hear his tantrum.

There is no reason NOT to expose really, you are already separated and on the road to divorce. So what is there to be afraid of???

Why do you want to confront him? He already knows he is having an affair. And he already knows you suspect that. There is no reason to confront him about something he already knows. You exposing to everyone and going into Plan B WITHOUT first engaging in some emotional confrontation (and tipping him off) will send a very clear message that you are a strong woman and are not messing around.

Just get the evidence and do a full blown exposure, and then go directly into Plan B. While you are working to get the evidence, I would recommend you get your exposure list ready to go and also get your IM and Plan B set up.

You don't have to decide about this now. The Plan B letter and none of Dr Harley's advice suggests that you should 'forgive him if he ends it.' There is no such thing as forgiveness, and the process or getting you to leave a Plan B behind and reconcile is much more than just 'ending it.' He would need to agree to all of your conditions, and even then you are free to leave the marriage at any time. Following the plan gives you the MOST options.

Yes, everyone is "afraid" to expose so that is a natural reaction. However, it is the best thing and you just have to put your fears aside and do the right thing. Keeping his secret only serves to enable him and makes it much more difficult for you to ever deal with him because he will remain fogged out. Keeping the secret also gives him the opportunity to spin the story and tell lies about how your marriage ended. Believe me you don't even want to allow that to happen. His lies will effect you for years to come. Trust me on this.

Exposure is simply the absolute best thing that can happen to ALL CONCERNED. It is all upside with no downside becasue everyone benefits.

And you don't have to leave any door "open" but you can leave your options open. You can send him a Plan B letter and tell him to get in touch with you when he ends his affair. At that point you can decide. You don't need to decide now and you certainly don't need to decide when you don't have the facts.

I know you all are right. I am sure you are sick of repeating yourselves over and over. Today has been such an emotional rollercoaster. He came to pick up my son and told my son lies to his and to my face about why when my son tried to call him this morning he didn't answer. He's so out there he's willing to sacrifice time with and his relationship with his son. He's a complete stranger.

I've been alone the past few hours trying to get work done on my computer and I have been going through 5 minute spurts of crying on/off. This is so [censored] hard.

I will start making lists this week, and drafting letters. I can post them here for help? I just want to make sure what I am saying is true and effective and maybe leave out the stuff I am unsure about. But I will leave that to all your expertise.

If allowed to his own devices, he will tell your son lies about how your marriage ended. By not getting the truth out there, you allow your H to tell lies to everyone. One of the purposes of exposure is to prevent this. Believe me, you don't even want to be dealing with his lies for years to come.


I promise you wll feel better if you can get this wrapped up and go into Plan B. PLEASE be as aggressive as possible in getting the evidence.

Yes, I agree. I am trying to be as aggressive as I can. I can't afford to put the GPS on for too long because of how expensive it is, so I'm trying to strategic. So far I think they've been finding ways to somehow meet on the weekend. I don't know if they will repeat an over night, but that would be my best bet. I might also have the PI just go one day in the middle of the week to watch him after work again and see if she can get a video of him getting into her car and follow them. I can't imagine that FIRST day that she went there was the first and only time that happened.

I am printing off our bank statements, because he has been burning through gas like crazy. He's spent $250 in gas in the past 10 days alone. He's gotten gas every day for the past 3 days and that is not in any way usual. He's also gotten cash out a couple of times. I am compiling a folder of "evidence". I am writing down the times my sister and I drove by his friend's house and that he wasn't there. I have the phone records of their long convos printed out. I have the two days of VAR recordings, which I just listened to again and there is a very FAINT GPS instructions going in the background of one of the times he said he was just "driving around", and him laughing and being out of the car for a while. I want to listen to that again when my son is not around to see if I can hear the final destination on the navigation.

Melody, my sister is agreeing to be IM, how do I get her email to you?

Notify the MODS and they will pass your email address to her.

Has she already done this? I just looked on Amazon and it seems you can buy your own GPS tracking device for under $100. Looks like there may be a monthly fee in addition to the cost, but it's a lot less than $150 a day! Is there a reason why the PI needs to put it on and track it? Could you or family get it on the car and then you track it yourself?

Best of luck to you. I've been following your thread and I am very inspired by your strength.

I just exposed. He is still denying. Unbelievable.

What happened, April?

I called her husband yesterday, he confronted her last night and she confessed. This morning I emailed his grandma, texted his brother my sister in law and his dad (I won't speak to his father on the phone, he just cheated on my MIL and divorced her this past year), called my MIL, texted his friends, FB messaged her friends and his extended family. He is denying. He said I'm ruining this poor woman's life. He wants to talk to me. I told him to [censored] off.

Her husband corroborated all my evidence. Their behavior and outings all match up.

Good job, April!!! i am so proud of you. What about the workplace? Have you exposed there too?

Refresh my memory, they do work together, right?

Yes, they work together. I believe I inadvertently did. Some of my husbands friend contacts work with him, and I believe one might be in a supervisory position. My husband texted me to say that some upper level management was coming down on her because of my messages. I was going to do the wait and get a new job thing, but I guess it's known there now.

You need to send a letter to their supervisors, department head and the head of HR. You need to make sure they know this relationship has developed in the workplace so they can act appropriately.

April, please go expose to the workplace NOW. You need to do this today before they pre-empt you. Do you have the contact information of their HR and some key leaders?

Shouldn't I give him a warning about leaving his job and giving him time to find one before I do that? He actually has been talking about leaving his job since he got a supervisor he hates. I will do what you think is best.

Like how Dr. Harvey says give them one month or whatever?

I would expose it right now.

That is only for a repentant wayward. Your husband is still denying the affair. Expose now before he has time to spin this.

This is an act of good will for people who have committed to recovery and admitted the truth. He has not done that.

Exposure to the workplace is not intended to be blackmail to get an active wayward to end the affair.

Did you expose to your child?

Given that this is your WH's 2nd affair and that he was already talking about leaving you (meaning the affair was pretty far gone and entrenched), this is not the time to be cutting corners.

I would not leave any exposure stone unturned and I would NOT trickle this out, hoping to avoid some of the "harder" exposures by seeing if just a little bit will do the trick.

I guess I wasn't aware that I should fully expose at work. I thought if his job was needed for our survival that I shouldn't threaten that immediately. In any case his supervisor knows and I believe hers does as well now. He came to talk to me and admitted the affair. He says he still wants to separate. He got a call for another job in our city (one hour from where he works now), and it looks like he will be changing jobs soon. He would not commit to stop seeing her. He said maybe after this "[censored] storm", but he couldn't bring himself to say he would no longer talk to her. What do I do now?

i inadvertently texted his supervisor and fb messaged hers

I would do exactly what Dr Harley recommends and tell him that if he puts in his notice today, you won't expose at the workplace. Otherwise you will formally expose to his workplace. That gives him 30 days to find another job.

You NEED him to leave that job in order for the affair to end. Do what you have to do to kill this affair. He can get another job, but you don't want to be fighting the OW for his income in the futre.

Most companies don't outright fire adulterers. They typically separate them.

In that case, I would draw up a letter TODAY and take it to his HR department, giving copies to the supervisors. Giving them this kind of heads up allows them to hide the affair. That is why you need to formally notify at least 3 ppl.

Ok, but what do I do about him after that.

Maybe I missed it but I don't see what happened with this...

Why do you believe this? You shouldn't believe a WORD that comes out of his mouth.

No but I will tomorrow. He's with my mother right now.

He got a phone call about the job while he was with me and i heard the other person asking questions about the job and he was responding with his salary requirements etc....

I don't think BWs get this.

If the affair doesn't end and this leads to divorce (which is where this is heading now), the divorce will be financially devastating, your WH will not want to support you and you will also not be with your child some of the time, potentially 50% of the time.

Stay at home moms don't seem to want to believe this. Your WH and his OW will be fighting you for every cent if this goes to D. If it was up to my ex WH (who had agreed to support me at the time we separated) he would have had me thrown on the street and moved into the house and had me pay him child support while the OW took care of my children.

Don't lose sight of the bigger picture.

Listen I'm not sure why you are so combative but I'm a little aggravated with your method here. I have been trying to do everything I'm supposed to do I'm not a MB expert. Making me feel stupid is not productive.

I see some trickle exposure happening and it's concerning to me. I'd hate to see you regret doing exposure in a less effective way. You've really only got ONE shot to get it right.

Listen, a poster on a site trying to help you avoid divorce is not the problem here. The affair is.

I am more than happy to step aside and let others help you. I have a very limited time to help out here so that's fine. Good luck!

And I'm not saying I don't appreciate the help. I'm just saying I'm tryin and I thought I was doing everything correctly. I do appreciate the advice.

I also have another problem. The only apartments he can find are going to put us into debt. What do I do??? He has no family and one friend in the area and my whole family is here. I almost want to move into my moms. Not to make life easier for him but because I'm worried about money. I know he chose this. It's a consequence of his actions. I'm so confused.

This is not your problem. He has to support you. I would stop talking about this immediately and go into a very dark Plan B. If he doesn't want to pay for an apartment he can get another job and end his affair. That is his option. It is not your job to give up your home to accommodate his affair.


This is something you need to prepare for in separation. Let him worry about supporting you. He has to legally continue to pay your bills and support you.

In the meantime, I would start writing your Plan B letter and go into a super dark Plan B. You can have your sister email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com. Let me know when you have read this and I will remove it.

And please don't get upset at Susie, she has been in your shoes and is immensely helpful and caring. She sees a person sitting on the traintracks and is concerned for your welfare. If I were in your shoes I would most certainly want her on my side. You are in good hands, my friend!

Why can't he rent a little room in a boarding house?

we're moving forward with him in his own apartment. He will move in tomorrow or the following day.

April, please step back from this and go into Plan B. His moving plans should be entirely of his own doing.

Are you familiar with Plan B?

Yes. I will draft a letter today. I intend to give it to him tomorrow. I just want him to get his stuff today and then I intend to do plan B and not see him anymore. I know I've muddied things a bit, but I know I have to do it.

How do I write Plan B letter without all the, I want to work on our marriage stuff. He doesn't want to do that. He wants a divorce. I found this one on Affaircare....it seems to fit my situation best. Could I use it as a template?

"Dear W,

I regret that we find ourselves in the situation we�re in. I never imagined this would happen to us.

I know that you�ve been unhappy for a long time, for many reasons, some of which you may not be sure of. I�m aware that my behavior in the past contributed in part to your unhappiness and the emotional estrangement between us. I�ve worked very hard these past 21 months to overcome that behavior, not only for you, but for me and our daughter as well. I wanted to be a better husband, a better father, but most importantly a better person. The changes I�ve made have improved my relationships with many of the people in my life, especially <daughter>. We�re closer now than ever. People can change if they�re willing to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable for who they are. I did that and I�m proud of the person I�ve become.

I still believe we can have a happy, loving, fulfilling marriage. I believe we can learn from our mistakes, grow from them and with effort and desire we can begin to slowly rebuild the love that was the foundation of our marriage and start to become a family again, for our sake and our daughter�s. I believe we can have a marriage based on trust and honesty where we both feel safe sharing our innermost thoughts, feelings, fears and dreams. The kind of marriage we both imagined when we said �I do�. I�m not naive, I know there�s been a lot of damage done. We�d likely need the help of someone like Steve Harley to guide us in learning better ways to communicate, meet each other�s emotional needs and begin to rekindle the spark of emotional intimacy between us. It won�t be easy, but it can be done. I�ve had the good fortune this past year to meet many people who have been able to do it.

I�ve suffered tremendous pain from seeing our marriage fall apart, learning about your relationship with <OM> and dealing with our impending divorce, but I never stopped loving you and I never forgot what a wonderful person you are and how much joy you brought me. That gave me the strength and hope to go on. But the pain became too much to bear and I could not continue to live the way we were, so I had no choice but to move out for my own emotional well being. This wasn�t an easy thing for me to do, but it was a necessary step.

I do not want this divorce. I want to be your husband, in every sense of the word. I want to hold you, talk with you, laugh and cry with you, comfort you, share the joy of raising a family with you. I want to grow old with you. As much as I want this, you have made it clear that you don�t, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life except as the father of your daughter, it is simply too painful. I cannot continue to have you rely on me like a husband when you have a problem or need help with something. It makes me feel uncomfortable and used. Therefore, I must ask you not to contact me except for issues regarding <daughter>. This is something I believe is necessary to preserve and protect the love I still have for you before it slips away.

As always, I will continue to be the best father I can be and do whatever is necessary to insure our daughter�s happiness and make her life as fulfilling as possible.

If, down the road, you have a change of heart and decide you want to give our marriage a chance, I am open to discussing it with you and working out a plan to restore our marriage and make it what we only dreamed it could be, but I will need to know you are committed to our marriage and assurance that <OM> is no longer a part of your life. I still love you, and as I said before, I believe in our marriage and I am willing to do whatever ever is necessary, but until that time, please respect my wishes.

All my love,
"

Oh, I also exposed to our son this morning. It was really hard to hear him upset after I told him that Daddy had been lying to mommy and him. But I know it was the right thing to do. I explained what he had done, and how he broke his promise to love only me when we got married. I told him Daddy chose to start loving another lady, and that he has been lying about where he is when he's not with us. My son got very upset and wanted to call WS. He asked WS why he lied and why he broke mommy's heart. He told him he doesn't want him to lie to us anymore. He asked him if he could stop thinking about the other lady and start thinking about mommy. He is a very strong kid, but I don't want him to think he has to take care of my emotional needs so I am calling around to some child psychologists today so I can get him someone to talk through this with, that has the proper tools to do so.

April, here is the letter from SAA that I would suggest using. I wouldn't mention divorce at all. The reason he is bringing up divorce is because of his affair. If the affair goes away, the divorce talk is likely to go away. Do you have the book SAA?

Sample Plan B letter, from SAA (revised edition) pages 77-78:

My Dearest __________,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair possible. I foolishly pursued my goals without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. [Add your willingness to address other complaints that the unfaithful spouse may have communicated prior to the affair.]

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship once and for all. Living with you under these conditions has been the most painful experience of my life, and I can no longer endure it.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends, ________, have agreed to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. They will provide transportation. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through them.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are together. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be wiling to discuss our future together with you.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

With all my love,
(signed)

This letter should be delivered by your friends to the unfaithful spouse, and a copy sent to the lover with a note at the bottom saying:

I love ______ with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for that chance.

The poor child. He will be just fine, April. You did the right thing. I am assuming you told him the name of the OW? Poor kid.

And I want to applaud you for taking the tough steps. You have been a real trooper and I know it has been so hard for you. I promise you that better times are in the future.

Thank you Melody. Yes, I told him her name.

Can you please post your letter so we can give you feedback?

Is your sister going to be your IM?

The Plan B letter needs to be delivered in a way that you can avoid any discussion with him. For example, you could hand it to him in an envelope when he drops your son off and say "please read this later when you are alone." What you don't want to happen is for him to open it right there and get into a discussion. There should be NO discussion whatsoever after the letter is delivered.

Other things to consider about Plan b:

1. he will initially refuse to communicate through your IM. Be prepared for this by NOT allowing him to get through to you. your sister needs to be prepared to send this persistent message: if you want to get a message to April it will have to be through me or nothing

2. he will try to communicate directly and you need to be prepared to block his efforts. Bounce his emails, block his # on your phone, turn off your answering machine

3. send the letter with a visitation schedule. ADD a line saying that you will expect him to continue to pay the bills and support you and your son

4. you must notify the OW's husband about his apartment so he can be on the watch.

5. follow the instructions on the Plan B letter to send a copy to the OW - at her house - with a note as suggested in SAA

6. did you expose to the OW's family? Have you spoken to her parents?

I did notify her family, but her parents are deceased. Her husband kicked her out. I can prob get the letter to him to give to her somehow. Where is the letter? I can't seem to find it.

"This letter should be delivered by your friends to the unfaithful spouse, and a copy sent to the lover with a note at the bottom saying:

I love ______ with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for that chance."

Does she have a facebook page?

Yes she has fb

Did you already expose to her friends and family on facebook?

Also, what evidence did you get that prompted you to expose? You just mentioned you exposed but didnt clarify what you found.

Yes I exposed to most of the fb people. I got blocked from finishing but I did a lot of the list. I have been going through the rest this morning. I got corroboration from her husband. We compared dates and times. Then she confessed to him and I also got more details about where they went and what they were doing.

Gotcha! I forgot that you told me that. I would stay in touch with him in order to compare notes. Your husband knows you have told him, right?

Yes. In fact he texted me while I was talking to WS and I told him right then we we're keeping in contact. I also told him things she told him that I would have no way of knowing... (Like that she got a uti from having sex with him...ew)

ugh! Is your H still denying the affair?

No he admitted it. He is denying it started before he told me he wanted a divorce though.

That is really cute, but how is that relevant? Does he imagine it is ok to commit adultery just because he "wants a divorce?" That is some CRAZY fogged out, wayward thinking!

I know. He's trying real hard to keep as good of an image as possible in this [censored] up, disaster of a situation he has caused.

Just confirmed with her BS that they started taking walks/talking as early as August. That he expressed interest in her before that but she rebuffed him. That she didn't know he was married because he doesn't wear a ring (he lost in when we moved 1year ago). He's such a damn liar.

I think it is funny that he believes he is entitled to commit adultery with a married woman because he was "thinking of divorce!" That is hilarious! i would like to see him explain that warped thinking to a normal person!

I forgot to tell you something!! In your Plan B letter put this line:

I insist that you do not ever expose our son to your adultery partner, Joe Blow's wife. This would upset him terribly and he is already upset.

REfer to her as such and such's WIFE.

Does the other OWH want to call your husband, I wonder?

Well he said he told her to do whatever she wants in regards to WS. That they had sex in his house twice and that's too far and he's done. So I doubt he wants to talk to him.

You're doing so well April. Hang in there, and once you're in Plan B you will start to feel so much better.

Hugs to your little guy!!

And here you go How to Plan B Correctly

I concur, great job on the exposure April!

Every wayward is fuming mad during exposure. They all say they are DEFINITELY getting a divorce. There are happily married couples on this very board who once told their BS that. So take that proclamation with a grain of salt. More important is YOU at this point and your son and protecting the both of you.

Now that you have exposed, your WH is out on his own, the OW is out on her own, and although this may seem like it has pushed them together it has really made them face reality. They used to get to fill fun needs when it was convenient for them. Now they have to fill ALL needs for each other ALL the time. That is much more difficult and certainly not as much fun, especially with family and friends scrutinizing their relationship, and the total upheaval of everything they hold dear.

Just let that mess fall apart on its own, while you are in a dark Plan B.

Yes, actually the weird thing is he's not mad. He told me he understands why I did it. He keeps telling me he's so sorry and that he will apologize to me every day, that he doesn't want to hurt us anymore. He said he's not going to talk to her anymore (of course I don't believe him). He was over to get some things for his apartment, he signed a lease today. I told him i was having a hard time looking at him and he replied that he was having a hard time being around me because he just wanted to give me a "hug and say I'm sorry". He said he was a "broken man". He told me last night that we don't have to rush to file for divorce, that we can wait and figure things out as we go through with the separation.

So I know I should proceed as planned, right? Will going on in the letter about how I want our marriage to work be too much? He already knows that I've said I would let him go and give him a divorce, because he's been so insistent and I just didn't want to keep pushing him. I didn't talk to him about reconciling to anything, I didn't talk to him much at all which I think really bothered him.

He has to come back tomorrow to get more items, and then I should be able to go into plan B after that. I am going to work on the letter after my son is in bed, and then I will post it here.

Also, I've gotten some mean messages back from her friends on FB which is sort of sucky. Makes me sort of question doing the exposure, but I know it was the right thing.

Yes, the letter should be sent as is. He doesn't know what he wants, and if he makes a radical change and meets your conditions, you can CONSIDER taking him back.


good girl!


No surprise that she hangs out with crapwits! Don't let it bother you!

Letter -

My (husband),

I am so sorry for the part I played in creating an environment that helped make your affair possible. I selfishly pursued my own goals without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. I know that I have made it difficult for you to open up to me and really tell me how you feel. I am sorry for being too critical of you and for not fully appreciating all of your loving gestures.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship once and for all. Living with you under these conditions has been the most painful experience of my life, and I can no longer endure it.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. (My sister) will be available to make arrangements for (son) and for all other communication. If you want to communicate about (son) or any other matter, it will have to be through her. I will not be available to talk by any means, as it is too painful for me to do so.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your actions, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you might be together. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be willing to discuss our future together with you. I respect your desire to work on your own emotional struggles and your feelings of being unhappy in our relationship, but in my heart I do not want to permanently separate from you.

My deepest and most sincere hope is that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend again, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

I still love you to pieces,
(signed Me)

.......edits?

Also, I should hand write this, right?

Good! i did change one thing. You need to attach a visitation schedule so you aren't constantly in contact with him.

No, you can type it out! that is fine.

Does your sister understand she is only to pass on PERTINENT information about son and finances in her own words? She should not forward his emails or send you any of his fogbabble or manipulations.

Did you give her my email address?

She is coming in from out of town tonight, and I am going to talk to her in person about it tomorrow. I will give her your email address then to contact you.

perfect!

My WS just asked me why HR would be calling... I'm scared he's going to lose his job. Did I make a mistake??

No you did not, he did. If he loses his job is just a consequence of his actions, not yours

No, you did not!! You should be scared if he doesn't lose that job because if he doesn't, his affair is sure to continue and you will soon be competing with the OW for his salary. He can get another job. They won't likely fire him, but they will put pressure on him at work.

Please think LONG TERM here! I wouldn't take his call.

When are you going in a dark Plan B so you don't have to hear this crap?

I just gave him the letter 20 minutes ago. I put in a couple pictures, one from our wedding day when we are kissing after cutting the cake, one of he and I and our son blowing out the candles on our son's 2nd birthday cake and a pic of us from my sister's wedding last year. Hope that was ok to do.

Good job! Now, you have to have a plan to cut off any possible avenue of contact. Are oyu prepared? Do you have him blocked on your phone? What about email? Are the locks changed? Is your sister prepared?

She is. The only thing about the phone is I want my son to be able to call him and vice Versa. I want to possibly just get him a prepaid phone to call on, is that a good idea?

Locks are already changed also

A prepaid phone is a great idea.

I would also explain Plan B to your son and tell him what you are doing and why. Ask him not to pass on messages for his father. If his father asks him to do that, he can say "mom asked that you contact Aunt XX to send her a message, otherwise she won't get it."

I just drove home after being out a bit with my sisters. Tonight my son is spending the night at WS's apartment. Being in the house alone is making me so sad. I just want to scream at him "Look what you took from me!" ....I even have to be apart from my son now against my will. I can't believe he did this to me. I hate him right now.

I am sorry, April/May.

Thank you. It's been hard.

What do I do now? I'm so lonely.

What do you do now? You survive... and you WILL survive....I know....I thought it was the end of my world and I found my courage, I found my self esteem, I found my confidence, I found my strength....to the point where I no longer survive, I thrive....and you will too....but for now, you survive.

AprilMay, are you eating, sleeping and taking care of your basic health needs?

Now would be a great time to find a women's workout group, volunteer groups such as the local food bank or shelter, or other hobby groups. Especially if you can find things to do while your son is away it will help you through the transition.

Yes, I am eating and sleeping better now than before. I am going to try to find some other things to do. Right now I am still doing my salsa class and trying to reach out to friends. I am having dinner with a friend tonight and then I am going to visit my college BFF this weekend

So WS asked if he can respond to my letter? That's all my sister said. I realized I didn't say anything in the letter about how to contact me if he wants to talk about reconciling? I know it's too soon but I am just curious

He can respond to her and she can pass on only:

1. pertinent information about child visitation, finances
2. a willingness to reconcile that includes the commitment to a) end his affair, b) leave his job and c) recover the marriage

all in her own words.

Anything else should be never be passed onto you. I expect he will say things to try to get you to break Plan B but without making any commitments. In other words, he will want you to make the changes rather than him. I expect a longwinded fogbabble letter blaming you for his affair. That should never get to you!

Please tell your sister she can email me and I will help her.

He probably wants to debate with you over the letter. That should not happen.

So he sent her a message to tell her that as of Monday he's ceased all contact with his AP. He didn't say anything about reconciling or anything, just that.

If he hasn't quit his job then he hasn't ceased all contact with his AP.

Oh yeah, I know this. I know he is interviewing for a new job. I'm sure he'll tell me (her) when he gets a new one.

Get her to re-send the Plan B letter. I don't have time to read back through the thread, but your letter should have told him what he needed to do if he wanted to be reconciled with you. Simply stating that he has ceased all contact is not good enough. He stated that before, but they were still having their affair. What concrete measures did you ask for, in order that you would consider reconciliation?

I know he hasn't mentioned reconciliation, but why else did he write this to her? He wants to go back home, but he wants to do so on his terms.

Nah-uh.

If he does tell her when he gets a new one, she should not pass that on to you. She should not pass on any information that is not 100% in compliance to your conditions.

He will try to make good will efforts to sneak his way back into your life. Giving up the OW for a DAY does not mean anything. Interviewing for different jobs does not mean anything. You need a willingness to comply to your conditions 100%, and anything less than that should not even reach your ears.

WEll, if they work together, he hasn't ceased all contact. Can you ask her to email me and i will help her navigate through this?

It said this:
"Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. (My sister) will be available to make arrangements for (son) and for all other communication. If you want to communicate about (son) or any other matter, it will have to be through her. I will not be available to talk by any means, as it is too painful for me to do so.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your actions, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you might be together. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be willing to discuss our future together with you. I respect your desire to work on your own emotional struggles and your feelings of being unhappy in our relationship, but in my heart I do not want to permanently separate from you."

More or less. This was the original version which I tweaked a bit with Melody's help.

Ok. I will reiterate that to her.

Ok she is going to call me later so I will tell her to contact you.

April, or you can just emphasize the letter to her as unwritten and Sugarcane posted. That is the key. Until he has committed to all of your conditions, there is nothing to discuss. He can't just claim to have ended his affair and done nothing to end it. Talk means nothing with a WS. As long as they still work together he certainly hasn't met that condition.

Does your sister understand the conditions of your recovery? It is important for her to understand, so she can weed through his fogbabble. That is the reason for an IM, to read through the fogbabble and not pass it on to you until he is meeting the conditions 100% and is completely on board with your conditions.

Ok, understood. I will let her know.

Ok, I get it. So even just a partial change (like "ending" contact with AP) is not enough. I need to tell her to remind him that I will have zero contact until all conditions are met.

You got it! He will try and negotiate the conditions and they are NOT NEGOTIABLE. This is where it can get scary for a new IM. He will throw out some crumbs and she will worry about making mistakes. This is where I can help her.

I will be on and off all today because I have a funeral, but you have some great posters helping you, unwritten and Sugarcane.

What have you been doing to fill up your free time April? You had a great suggestion to look into hobbies or interests, have you done that? Plan B is a great time to focus on you and the things you have always wanted to do.

Tell us some things you might be interested in and how you can start pursuing them.

I know Plan B is scary and you are probably focused mentally on your WH and how this is going to play out. You are doing so great and now is the time to stop worrying about WH and start thinking about you and moving forward. You are a strong woman who has set some very clear boundaries and will not accept crumbs. It is possible your WH will eventually come around, but until then move in a direction that enhances your life.

You're right. I am focusing to much on WH. I need to stop that.

I am taking a salsa class, and I have that tonight. I plan to sign up for another one once this session is over (3 more weeks). I just had dinner with my friend last night and she was telling me about a new yoga studio she is trying and really likes, I told her I'd go with her sometime, so that's another. I am going out of town on Friday to visit my other friend from college, and spend some time with her since we never see each other. I am trying to get back into the groove of my work because it's fallen behind. I have lost close to 20 lbs through this whole ordeal (which frankly I needed to lose), but now that my appetite is back I'm worried it will all creep back on so I am going to try to work out regularly. I don't want to have to put away the new clothes I just bought because I got fat again! lol

Other than that, I do have some blank canvases and new paints I would like to use. I do want to go out and about more, especially with my son during the day since we spend so much time indoors. Maybe read some books, go out to a movie or to dinner with my sisters or friends...stuff like that.

I wouldn't describe "ending contact with AP" as a just partial change. It is a huge change. It is 90% of what you are shooting for. If he had really done that, you could talk to him while establishing the other conditions for recovery, such as transparency about all communications (phone and laptop passwords etc), and moving away, if necessary. You could talk about the lifestyle changes you would both have to make, to ensure that an affair is not possible in the future. Certainly he cannot make decisions about such things as moving away without talking to you.

The point I was making is that ending contact is not achieved by his not having talked to her since Monday. As others pointed out, if he still works with her, contact will happen at any moment. Contact has merely been deferred.

I was also saying that you must not believe that contact has ended just because he says it has. My point was that he has said this before and it wasn't true. You need a much more concrete measure than his mere word that contact has ended. His acquiring another job, followed by his agreement to everything else you demand, is the kind of concrete action that you can evidence.

Last night WS high school best friend called me. I had exposed to him with everyone else last week. He wanted to tell me about his wife's affair and how he got through it. She did and said all the same things as WS and he went through hell, as I have been. He didn't separate from her, he wouldn't let her move out or anything and then he finally got to the point where he was done and said he was leaving and that's when she snapped back. This was apparently 6 years ago. It was nice talking to someone who has felt the same things that I am feeling and that knows WS. He said he's tried to text him but he's just gotten very cold, distant responses that don't sound like his friend at all. He doesn't recognize the person WS is either. Apparently WS told him all the same mumbo jumbo about not being "happy" for so long or whatever. He reassured me that his wife was exactly the same way. I actually am so glad I exposed to everyone and that I'm able to get some support from such unlikely sources. I don't know what's going to happen, but I feel very much sympathized with and listened to with those people that's I've told.

April, that is so nice he contacted you. Just so you know, Dr Harley does not give the same advice to betrayed husbands that he gives to betrayed wives. He doesn't ever recommend that a BH asks a WW to move out. He does give that advice to betrayed wives.

That's so interesting to me. I wonder what the psychology is behind that.

I'm so lonely today. I feel like my best friend died. I don't know how to live without talking to him. I should hate his guts but I don't.

Because betrayed wifes can't handle being around a wayward Husband (who hasn't ended their affair and committed to recovery) more than 3 weeks before it starts to effect them physically and mentally. Betrayed husband's can handle it a lot more 6months to 2 years and that's why Dr. Harley advises women different than men.

So WS has been following the "rules" to the letter. He only contacts my sister and does not attempt to talk to me when we exchange our son. We are having a massive snowstorm and he emailed to tell her that he would snow blow our driveway this afternoon. I told her to tell him no thank you. I did it myself, even though it's not something I would normally ever do. I did have a breakdown because my car was stuck and I just got so ANGRY at him. For abandoning me, our home, for reneging on his vows to stick by me in good times and bad... I was just in there crying and screaming about how much I hate him.

Also, we had worked out a deal where I would keep the dog if he came every day to exercise him. We had a schedule set up on a shared google calendar and he was coming everyday this week. All the blinds shut, I just sent the dog out he'd exercise him and then leave. No contact. BUT I can't handle the dog. It's not enough to exercise him once a day. He's too high energy and needy. He ripped up a library book and the next day a new sweatshirt of my sons. I told him today he needs to get rid of the dog (through IM). So he's taking him back to the breeder on Sunday. I feel awful because my son is devastated. I am planning to look into adopting a cat to try to ease him through losing the dog. Cats are more my thing, and no fist sized bruises from one ramming into your leg at full speed.

I have appointments for me for therapy and I just set one up with a child psychologist for my son the first week of December. I hope it will help him work through this whole thing. I feel things are just going to feel rough now that the holidays are approaching.

Got another couple messages from AP FB contacts. One was mean and telling me to stop what I was doing that I was borderline committing a crime and could be arrested (lol), and another was nice from a coworker of hers that confirmed she saw them walking back in September (regardless of his bs that they only stared "hanging out" after he told me he wanted out beginning of October). She said AP was acting "weird" ...gee I wonder why...an illicit affair with a married man will make you paranoid I'm sure. It was nice to get further confirmation that I have not been a crazy person.

Just wanted to update and vent a bit. Thanks for reading.

Well he tried to text me. Right now I still have the same number so he can contact me for emergencies when he has my son. I didn't respond to the text and told my sister to email him and tell him to contact her directly through email with his concerns. I think the fact that I am not bending and coddling him is starting to get to him. Who knows, maybe he really did break off contact with the OP and he's withdrawing and is finally starting to feel alone. I couldn't care less at this point. I'm so mad at him.

You did great by having your sister contact him. I would - right now - block him so he cannot text you. If he has an emergency, he can call the police or your sister.

If he is able to contact you, you will not have any peace EVER.