Greetings.

Just recently, a former pastor from my hometown posted a YouTube video sharing the story about his new love over this last year. The general breakdown is this:

� H(38) married with 4 kids.
� Hadn't had sex in 6 years. Felt rejected.
� Felt he couldn't tell anyone or get a divorce because he's a pastor.
� Meets OW(18-20?) at church and falls in love.
� She sits on his lap in his office and they confess their love for each other.
� During a church camp, he invites her to his personal cabin and they have sex.
� Confesses to supervisor, loses his job.
� Confesses to wife and moves out.
� Picks up OW and has sex in a public restroom.
� OW's parents kick her out of their house.
� Now living with OW somewhere.
� Says he has divorced his wife.

I asked if he'd be willing to get together over coffee and talk more about everything, and he agreed.

In your experience, do you have any advice on what the most important/effective things I should be talking with him about during our conversation might be?

What is the point of the meeting?

I'd bet anything he's lying about her initial age, and should be reported to the police.

Why did you ask to meet him?

Since he feels he has been rejected and 'kicked to the curb' by the church, I'm primarily interested in moving towards him in truth and grace as a fellow believer.

First, to simply connect with him as a person and empathize with the difficulties he's faced � but more importantly, I'm praying for it to be a spiritual opportunity in which to ask what kind of bearing scripture has on our lives, illuminate the truth of the situation, and utilize what little influence I may have to encourage a path towards repentance and reconciliation.

I recognize it's a long shot in many ways, but for the sake of his family and Christ himself, I wish to use the opportunity to help pierce a light out of the fog. On the spiritual side of this I am praying for him and asking the Spirit to lead me in the upcoming conversation, but I was also curious about what recommendations Marriage Builders might have to a situation such as this.

Thank you for your time.

Being "kicked to the curb" was appropriate for a wolf in shepard's clothing, preying a young member of the flock and using church events to do so. Are you prepared to go to the police if he confesses a criime?

If you do meet, be careful not to buy into his lies. We do encourage people to stand against the affair and encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair. But if your goal is empathy, you may already be on the wrong path. This man has chosen awful behavior at best, criminal behavior at worst (we don't know). Frankly, it sounds as if you already believe his spin.

But you know the Marriage Builders position on affairs. I'm still unclear about what additional information you are looking for.

Marriage Builders doesn't have a specific recommendation about what to say to a former pastor who is having an affair and has been expelled from his church. He knows what the Bible says about marriage and adultery, and he knows why he was expelled and shunned.

He was appropriately kicked to the curb by the church. The church is not supposed to embrace a fox in the henhouse. The Bible also tells you not to associate with the works of darkness.

Can you explain what it means to "move towards him in truth and grace?" Those are cute flowery words but have no meaning.

She was 15-17 when the relationship started. You can bet on it.

Yes, absolutely.

I don't, actually. I've read enough threads on here to know how insane waywards can become, and I expect the lies to run much deeper than he may be willing to admit.

Okay, thank you. This was what I was curious about.

You may very well be right. Some of the Facebook comments that were written/deleted (after I initially posted to this thread) mentioned the age of 16 when they first met. I don't know how long ago that was, or when the romantic switch happened, but I don't have high hopes.

Perhaps I am wrong here, but according to Ephesians 5:11, I'm not interested in associating with fruitless deeds of darkness anymore than Jesus was willing to associate with sinners. I'm more interested in helping expose them, as it says.

Certainly. John 8 comes to mind, in which a woman caught in the act of adultery is brought before Jesus. He gives her grace by not condemning her, but also gives her truth to go and sin no more.

This doesn't make any sense. Meeting with him does not "expose" darkness. He already knows what he did. What do you think you are "exposing" and how does meeting with him achieve this?

Secondly, his affair was already exposed as evidenced by his expulsion from the church.

Actually you ARE associating with the works of darkness by meeting with him.

Certainly. John 8 comes to mind, in which a woman caught in the act of adultery is brought before Jesus. He gives her grace by not condemning her, but also gives her truth to go and sin no more. [/quote]

You didn't answer my question. Can you speak in straightforward ARTICULATE language? What EXACTLY do you intend on saying to him? I hope it is not flowery, meaningless words that you use here.

I believe we may have different understandings of this verse, so I'll explain what my position is on it:

The ESV commentary on this verse reads: "Expose means either to reprove or to convince through argument and discussion, at the same time taking great care not to gossip or slander others. Instead, Christians should show by their lives and their wise interactions that the works of darkness are not to be ignored among God's holy people."

Similarly, verse 7 before it reads: "Therefore do not become partners with them." In its context, I believe this passage is giving us general instruction not to become partners with sons of disobedience, nor take part in works of darkness. I don't believe Paul is asking us to avoid all contact with sinners, but to avoid joining them in their sin.

Also, considering how Jesus was known for eating with sinners, to the point that the pharisees would ask about it, Jesus said, �Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.�

Therefore, I have no interest in partnering with this man, nor do I want to take part in works of darkness. What I am interested in, however, is to have coffee with him for the opportunity to "reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching," as 2 Timothy 4:2 describes, Lord willing.


Truth: That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
Grace: The free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.

There are certainly options here, but I intend to use doctrine, instruction, correction, and encouragement when speaking with him. I would especially like to reference Matthew 19:9 and ask how that relates to his circumstance right now. I would love to discuss the authority of scripture as truth in our lives. Or go over the story of David and Bathsheba and what lessons we are to learn from that. What does Jesus say about what love really is? Perhaps we could discuss how he may feel 'kicked to the curb' by the church, but what if it's not a poor choice by an angry boss but a possible foreshadow of God's future judgment? I'd love to talk about how Christ died for us while we were still sinners, and what kind of implication that might have for how we should respond with our lives. I'm praying for specific words or scriptures to share, and I trust that the Spirit will guide me in what to say and how to say it.

Once again, I don't have a tremendous amount of hope for this conversation, but I am praying in faith that God would be able to use it to impact his life and draw him towards repentance if only one inch.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to answer my original question, and I hope that helps answer yours.

What is your personal interest in this? It doesn't sound like he is amenable to your guidance.

Are you male?

Appreciate the answer, apples123. Thank you.

To do the will of the Father. To rebuke those who persist in sin, and to seek and save the lost.

I agree, which is why I am praying the Lord would give me the right words to speak to him.

Yes.