So here goes...I have been married 17 years. With ups and downs along the way. 3 kids, 15,13,10. In 2013 / 2014. My wife became distant and I became curious. She had become close with the husband of a couple we socialized with. Our kids went to school together and we hung out as couples and group settings. They just seemed to cozy and got along well. I was in denial, but I started to suspect something was up. So end of the summer 2014, I went through an old phone that was just deactive two months prior and discovered naked photos of this guy. Also a photo of a card he gave her. I was angry. I felt something was wrong for a while, but had no proof up till that point. I immediately confronted her. She admitted to an emotional affair with minimal physical contact. I confronted him and he swore that it was alot if texting and never sex. We discussed options and sought counseling and decided to stay together with the kids in mind. She never truly committed or seemed remorseful. I dropped him and it appeared he and his wife were out of our lives. Fast forward 2016 / 2017. I sensed there was something wrong again. Convinced myself there was no way she would end up back with him. He is still married and thought no chance he would risk that. I sensed my wife started lying about being at work or goong out with work friends, who I really don't know. But the night of the week was usually the same night. But only once a month or so. So last week out of no where A friend approached me and said. I have something to tell you. I think I have seen your wife with a guy in a certain parking lot every morning this past week. He described her car and then I knew it. The location was close to his place of work and my friend described his uniform. I showed my friend a Facebook picture and told him what kind of car the guy drove. He confirmed it. It all made sense. I was in shock, but not completely caught off guard. So here is my question. Do I have enough to confront her at this point? Am I in denial that this is anything but over? I never wanted this. I really wanted to be in my kids lives on a full time basis. Not to mention the financial complications of divorce. We have our primary home and second vacation home. The relationship has definitely had it troubles. But I'm sick to think that my life is now upside down. Had to believe we will be not together after 20+ years. And lastly, Infidelity or not. A man will loose drastically in divorce. So now what? Lost!

Hi CF, sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. I would hire a PI right away. A good PI can get you everything you need fairly quickly. Please do that and then come back and we will give you next steps. Don't ask or confront her yet.

Realistically after the first go around how much evidence do I need? I have already seen and imagined enough to be SICK. I don't need photos of sex to [censored] me up anymore. The fact that they were seen together is not enough to confront? One more thing. The first time around she told her father and we all sat down and discussed the situation. That is when we decided to not damage the childrens lives, since they attend school with the other guys kids. It made sense. That would definitely be painful to a child. I have read alot about the exposure 101 and agree to the idea of killing it. I know my wife well enough. She is alot more convincing and shrewd then me. That will be all spun in how bad a person I was to her and can't blame her for the damage I have inflicted on her. That group of friends that in included this guy never asked me why we didn't socialize with that couple anymore. Even though at a few times we would be at the same party or event. Even the wife I crossed paths with. It was clear I hated her husband and was stand off'ish with her. She never said a word. And after a few drinks. I contemplated saying something, but held my toungue. I was always waiting for the... So how come you and so and so don't talk anymore. Never happened. My wife also has a core group of friends from childhood. I know one of them knew about the affair. And was her go to person. Im sure she still knows the current status. An exposure to that group will not shock anyone. I have a feeling they have had their own affairs. Just sick to my stomach and don't hide emotions well. Not sure I can play the game. She is currently out of town with our kids. So although they are probably in contact. I know they are not together. If i got the information prior to the end of the school year I would try an Ah Hah moment snd catch them. But that won't be easy now that the summer is here. She does not work in the summer and is usually at the second home with the kids. We had family vacations planned this summer and not sure I can just go with the flow. Lastly, she knew i was with my friend last weekend and he is a no filter kind of guy. (He wasn't completely sure that She did not see him in his work truck). She is the complete opposite of naive. Sharp!! She may already suspect that I heard about what was witnessed and covering her tracks. She was getting sloppy. I have questioned where abouts on long coffee pick ups and random work responsibilities. Like.... Oh. I just have to get some paperwork signed or going for a smoke which he did too. She knows my suspicions were up with the questioning. She probably just thought i was too chicken to look deeper and didn't want to really want to know. Obviously the signs were there and the lies too. Just sick to my stomach!!

Basically, you swept this under the rug the first time. You did not expose but rather covered up for her and shielded her from any consequences. You did not change anything about your life and continued to associate with OM (even if you were no longer friends he was still around and available). It does not seem like you installed any EPs or changed your lifestyle in a way to make it affair proof. What you did not realize the first time, is that affairs are addictions. You relied on your wife's sense of right and wrong, her rational thought process, to do the right thing and end it. But you have learned the hard way that this is the equivalent of relying on a heroin addict to just quit because it is bad for them. It does not work.

You have the choice now of doing this the right way, or doing it your way again. You are already feeling the sting from doing it your way, and I'm sorry to say my friend that you will continue to feel the pain for years if you do not change your plan of attack here.

Expose now before she has time to spin. Don't ask her, just do it.

Your first order of business is to get evidence of what is going on. You can certainly try a keylogger on her phone, VAR in her car, etc. but if she really is that good at covering her tracks a PI will get the evidence easiest perhaps.

This evidence is not for you to confront her. There is no reason to confront her, she already knows she is having an affair. This is to use as you do a thorough exposure. You want to have the facts when you expose so she cannot spin the story. This is a long term entrenched affair at this point, and yes you are being naive to think otherwise. You cannot afford to keep this a secret and sweep it under the rug again. You have seen the results of doing this the first time, it did not work. You have to do a full blown exposure this time including to your children to stand any chance of saving your marriage. If you are not willing to do this, I do not have any hope for your marriage.

Of course her father and her thought it was a good idea to not expose. No one who acts immorally wants to advertise it to the world, because it is shameful and embarrassing. As it should be. And if they don't expose, they don't have to suffer any consequences, which it sounds like she didn't.

Living a lie is NOT however the best thing for your kids. It is NOT protecting them. They are living in this family during this traumatic time, during this state of discord, and are being told lies about the cause of that discord. You see, they are hurt by the AFFAIR, not the truth. They are damaged by the affair whether they know the reason or not.

By the way, exposure is not something you talk to your wayward wife about, or get her permission for. NO wayward is going to think this is a good idea. You get the evidence and you expose without even letting her know you know. If she knows in advance she will just spin the story as you already said.

I have no idea what the future holds, either way its ugly. This exposure action may cause severe financial complications as well. We have two homes and I am 25 years into a job that I have a large pension % to protect. I need that pension to live the rest of my life. NY is NOT a friendly divorce state even in infidelity circumstances. (Often friends use the term "cheaper to keep her"). I have see many coworkers through the years devastated financially to the point they are seeing for much leas than half of what they earn. And then upon retirement they have to give half of their pension to the ex for the rest of their lives. Causing them to stay working way past their maximum pension % credit time just to avoid giving up the pension. So yes, I see the exposure as a way to bring light to the situation and end it, but it will create intense hostility due to embarrassment (for all involved). Does anyone have a story or comment that this full blown exposure caused a major legal battle causing sever financial consequence? At this point is a confrontation, separation and a mediator to disolve the assets a possibility? That is one regret and it was truly financial and my kids who stopped me, but we should have seperated the first time around. )Still not sure how I will maintain the two homes and my independent living expenses). A test of seperation "may" have created a sense of what it would be like apart. As was said in the counseling. She loves me, but seems beacuse of past problems was currently not in love with me. I realize I was stupid to think she would have a conscience, but once her father was involved I believed that she would not risk further embarrassment especially for our kids. Also the other guy is married as well a prominent professional . Does he have no fear of consequence? His family? His wife is much more naive and dependent on him. Everyone is different. Mw is a strong willed and independent person, that trait I truly respected. She was always a step and a half on everyone elses wives and girlfriends. And my friends knew it. Like I have said. (Sharp, smart, with a personality that can get people to open up and talk). She also has a large support network (friends / family) as opposed to me. My parents are deceased and Im an only child. Friends, but not sure they are a complete support structure with their own lives and issues. May sound pathetic, but its reality. I am fairly certain. If I go your route. There will be much embarrassment for all involved (good and bad), hostility, and financial revenge. She is the type that if you cross her or back her in a corner, She will spin. Even lie or embelish to protect herself. Trust me. She is not the person to roll over and be walked over easily. I have a good relationship with her parents and her father knows her pretty well and is honest about the type of person she is as well. And he did not over protect her!!. He truly felt he was protecting all involved. Especially the kids.

So, what route do you want to go down, if you will not take the route that Marriage Builders recommends?

Are you saying that you'd be willing to say nothing, and let the affair continue, in order to protect the life you have now - including living with your kids full-time, and maintaining your financial situation?

If you're willing to do that, then you're free to do that. You don't need anyone's advice, or permission, to let things continue as they are.

We would just point out, though, that if her affair continues, she could divorce you anyway. There is always the chance that she will end the marriage in order to be with him.

So there is only one way to do it on this site? Blow it up as big as possible!!! Let the chips fall where they may? No concern with the consequences? Financially or otherwise?

No. Never said to not confront. That must happen!! First I was curious if I had enough? I can not put an app physically on her phone. I could possibly have her followed. No access to thousand of dollars for PI expenses. Not happening. And I only reading one outcome. Total embarrassment for all. And possible remose. Of course I want it to end!!! Does anyone see what I am trying to say. Major complications, financial and otherwise? Who knows. Have people ever heard of nasty, contested mud slinging divorces. That last for years and cost insane dollar amounts. Because I have. Ok great. She is exposed for an affair. That will blow over in public opinion in time. The parties involved. Including the kids will be affected forever.

Are you saying that you're not willing to expose this affair?

Have you read the Exposure 101 thread? the first post in there contains quotes from Dr Harley, who founded the Marriage Builders programme, explaining why he recommends exposure. He recommends exposure as the first step towards ending an affair.

Please read that first post, and come back and tell us what you think.

I read it. Send everyone a message of the situation. Expose her sounds great if no one has had a bad experience with this method? Is it not possible to make it worse for all involved? Trying to be objective

My concern with this method is the aftermath. Of course I want it to end. Not sure where you live, but the pain now is severe enough. Walking around town and working in the town I live with snickering and gossip does not sound like it will help me. That is what my area is like. The entire town won't throw a scarlet letter on her. She is well liked. Some will sympathize and say they must have been in a bad marriage. That is how people think around here. People won't turn on her long term. Sure the other guys wife won't be happy. My wife may be a emabarrased by that.l, but that will subside with time. I can't relocate due to my job. So starting over somewhere else is not an option. My kids will be mortified in public. I am concerned it will start an even more nasty war. A reltaliation of lies and false narratives of what led to justify her behavior.

You have enough to be able to say that she is seeing a man that she earlier confessed to having an affair with. You have enough to be able to say that she broke her word to you that she would not see him again. And by the way, this affair was certainly physical - they had sex. You need to stop being in denial and face the truth about that.

The most important person you need to tell is this man's wife. You say you "dropped him", but it sounds as if you must know where she lives.

Exposure is not a case of "letting the chips fall where they may". You should expose to people who need to know about this affair - i.e. his wife, and your own children. They are the most directly affected and they need to know what is going on in their lives. If you had old the other man's wife (OMW) when this first happened, there is a good chance that between you, you could have made sure that there was no opportunity for this affair to continue in secret. If you tell her now, she will raise holy hell with her husband and make him choose - and he will choose to stay with her. He does not want to leave his wife, who meets most (possibly all) of his emotional needs, and his kids, whom he loves and does not want to separate from, and his home, to live in a rented apartment with your wife and her kids, when they visit. That situation is not sexy, and it is not romantic, and he knows this. He is a typical, cake-eating married man who wants his bread buttered on both sides - but if he has to settle for one side only, it will be the side with his wife and kids.

When your wife learns that he threw her under the bus and weaselled his way back into his marriage, she will see that all she was to him was a piece of (what Donald Trump said), and she will see that she was used, and is a fool. At that point, you will have a chance of convincing her to embark on a programme of recovery - which will mean moving away from the area where you live now, as an urgent step. As long as the affair partners live within easy travelling distance of each other, the affair will be on and off for years. He won't leave his wife for your wife, but he will grab a quickie whenever one is convenient.

You also need to expose to family who care about your wife and will put pressure on her to end the affair. You will gain moral support from them, once they know. The key family members are her parents and siblings, and yours. (I've already stressed the importance of telling your kids.)

With the information that you have about the parking lot meetings, it would be easy enough for you to spy on them yourself, if you can stay hidden. Also, a digital voice recorder, velcro-ed to a hidden part of the interior of her car, would be a cheap and quick way of getting firmer evidence.

Honestly, this isn't rocket science. With the information you already have, you can get a lot more, very easily.

Affairs thrive on secrecy. When the affair is exposed, it dies regardless of the reaction of the people who hear about it. The allure of the affair is gone.

The point of exposure isn't to get people to "turn" on your wife, long term or short term. The point is to kill the affair.

Your marriage will likely never recover, then.

Well, if all you do is tell the whole town (which is not what we recommend) and then stay in exactly the same situation, allowing the embarrassment to fade for her but not for you, then yes, your exposure will have been ineffective, and you'll be living for a long time with snickering and gossip.

If, however, you expose to his wife and your kids, and you ask close family on both sides for help, and then when your wife goes ballistic you tell her that you want to save the marriage and that this begins with moving right away from that area, and cutting off all avenues of contact with OM, the aftermath will be very different.

Wouldn't your close family rally round to help you? Don't your kids' grandparents want to see the kids grow up in a happy, stable home? Wouldn't your kids urge their mother to end the affair and not break up the family and hurt you? Are you genuinely telling us that all these people - people that love you and your family - will sympathise with her and support her in her affair, even if they do believe the marriage was bad for her? they will support her in breaking your kids' hearts? Really?

You say you've read the Exposure 101 post that I recommended, but if you had you would not be talking about "scarlet letters". Where in that post, or on the thread, do you see anything like that as the desired effect? Did you read where Dr Harley said

"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing"?

Is that the only job you could ever have, in this whole wide world?

What is to stop you from renting out your house immediately, and renting somewhere else yourselves - somewhere in a different town, from where you can get to work? Meanwhile, you look for another job, or see whether you can transfer with this job. You also prepare to put both houses on the market, so that you can start a new life.

You make your financial situation sound tight, but surely nobody needs two houses. It's nice to have a holiday home, but it's hardly essential.

Well that makes more sense than sending messages blasts to all facebook friends far and near. That is what I read. I think catching them in person is best. No denying that with past history. But sadly, I do think think this is an emotional affair as it is a physical one. Day time meets, in semi public places in the next town over are not for sex. Knowing my wife he must fullfill some void in her life. Tough to admit that, but we are adults. Before i started here my plan was to confront and most likely leave. (I have no family local, so thatbwas always and issue). Tell the other wife, (dont have her # but facebook messge her) is it possible he has access to her account? He was deleted and blocked previously on both mine and wife's accounts, but did he get access to his wifes? Hmm? A chance I may have to take. Then do I confront his wife first? Of mine? If I confront her, who knows the reaction she may have. She may not be able to play along call him out instantly. All thoughts running through my head.

I have a job that is civil service. Will leave it at that. It is pension based with time with service credit. Not a transferable job. Also there is no chance to uproot my kids and move. Just not going to happen.

Also money is stretched thin. No extra cash lying around and we have some debt which has led us to marital problems.

Then there is little hope for recovery.

Where did you read this? Can you copy and paste the passage here?

This is what I read in that first post:

"Exposure targets
Parents of all concerned, family, close friends, children of the BS, workplace [if a workplace affair], spouse of the affair partner, pastor. Facebook friends of affair partner."

Nothing that I can find about telling the "entire town".

And also:

"Facebook exposure: Should be done to the affair partner�s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the AP�s closest friends and family. SPACE THE PM�S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children. Template letters posted below."

This post instructs you to expose to the AP's "closest friends and family". You can work these out by using surnames, for example. The post also instructs you to use private messages.

I can't see anything that says "message blasts to all Facebook friends far and near", but I must be wrong. Please show me where.

It's not worth arguing the point about whether this affair is physical or emotional. Don't waste your time here nitpicking details, when you need to make a plan to implement what Dr Harley recommends (I take it that you're here to follow Dr Harley's plan, after all).

If your plan all along was to "most likely leave", that doesn't square with your insistence that you can't afford to divorce. I understand that you did not intend to uproot the kids or leave your job, but what did you think would happen after you left by yourself? Were you planning to let her have both houses, while you found somewhere else to leave alone? How can you afford that, if you can't afford to divorce?

And how would your leaving, but continuing to work in the town where you live, help you to avoid the town's gossip? How would it help your kids to avoid it?

What you are telling us doesn't make sense.

I do believe that her family would be supportive. And I believed that then. Mistakes were obviously made. Yes, he is most likely like an addiction now. An escape from family and real life drama. Im sure it serves a purpose in her life. I am in no way justifying it. Just being objective. She loves our kids dearly and goes above and beyond for them. But even the little lies on her whereabouts with no conscience is unbelievable. Does someone living this life ever realize what they are doing. Or do they justify it? I mean we go on family vacations and spend alot of time with friends. Going out to eat and socialize. Does she ever say WTF am I doing? I mean right now she is away with the kids and is making plans for us all to go to Canada next week. She is not with him and making family plans. So conflicted!?!?!

We are very concerned about the financial consequences of divorce, which is where you are headed right now. Are you concerned about those consequences? Your best chance comes from busting up the affair. The best way to bust up an affair is exposure. Exposure is therapeutic.

I didn't have a real plan. I always wanted to save my marriage and stop the affair. Obviously if left with no options i would have to leave. We would seek a mediation seperation, liquify assests. Not keep two houses. That would all be done. That is why I stayed in the first place. Never wanted that. Wanted ti be in my kidslives full time and restore my marriage. Im not sure that is possible. Looking at all options.

I want exposure. But limited. I guess is what I am trying to say. No need to send facebook blasts to "facebook friends". And he co-workers. Or any unnecessary people for public consumption

"Facebook friends of the affair partner" are the people in the town. Unfortunately still some mutual friends of mine and wife. We can't run away. That is not an option.

Really? The whole town is bosom buddies with the OM?

Moving is not "running away." Moving is what will give your marriage a chance to recover. Your marriage will not recover as long as she can run into the OM.

Obviously not. I am hear looking for guidance, compassion, and objectivity. Not a debate. This is a very emotional situation. I get that none of you are personally involved. And its easy to make comments. I believed i was in a place with people who shared similar experiences and would able to help. I have friends that would just say. ***EDIT***. With no legitimate consideration for consequences

I don't think you're either reading the information available on this site, or thinking clearly.

Do not attempt to contact his wife using a means that he could access and block - that is simple common sense.

You said: ". She had become close with the husband of a couple we socialized with. Our kids went to school together and we hung out as couples and group settings".

If you socialised with her, you must know where she lives. You know what school her kids go to. You can find out where she works. Go to her house. Call the house phone, using whatever that number is that makes you anonymous (I'm not in the US and don't know what this is). If her husband picks up the phone, hang up. Don't leave a message on the answering machine. Go to the school at the time she would be picking up or dropping off her kids. Find out where she works and send an email to her work address, or phone her there.

If you really wanted to contact her, you would have worked this out for yourself by now. Thousands of people on this site have contacting the other spouse - I did it myself, when he lived in another country, and I started with only OW's name and surname. 5 minutes of internet searching and I just about knew her inside leg measurement.

Do not breath a word about exposure to your wife, or anyone else (not even your kids or your parents). Do it first, and then when the news gets back to her, calmly deal with her fury. If you tell your wife before you tell his wife, she will tell him and he will spin some story to his wife, making your exposure less effective.

Seriously, this part of the plan is the simplest to follow (although not easy to do - it takes courage). You live in what sounds like a small town, and you know OMW already. You know where the affair couple meets, and when. You've already got everything you need, and for some reason you are chickening out of using it.

We posters on this forum have all done this ourselves; those of us in recovery will tell you that we owe the saving of our marriages to exposure. However, some of us have had to do more, after exposure, and we've willingly done it to give our marriages a chance, and to provide a stable home for our children. People here have rented their houses and moved immediately - several of them have moved thousands of miles away. They have given up jobs in order to move, or the unfaithful spouse has given up their job in order to cut contact with the affair partner. Children have been made to move schools, and move away from their loving grandparents. These steps were the first on the path to recovery, and people have taken them because they would do anything rather than live with an affair, or walk away from their marriages without trying.

Well according to you Prisca, I guess there is nothing more I can do.

Okay, then. Nobody told you to expose to the whole town. You were told to select the closest friends and family when you do a Facebook exposure.

You are. And you are being told what works. Not only for those of us who lived it and are posting to you, but for thousands of other couples that Dr. Harley has helped.

It would not help you to sugarcoat the truth. The path to recovery is very narrow, and if you deviate from it, you will not recover.

There is plenty you can do. But you are not willing.

CG,

Objectivity and compassion say "Friend, we want you to know that what you are doing doesn't work. We have help to offer you from Dr. Harley's expert opinion from working with thousands of couples. He knows what works and what doesn't."

Because we are objective and compassionate, we let people know that there's a recovery plan here that works and that deviations from the plan are disastrous.

We didn't make that up, and it isn't our personal opinion. It's straight from Dr. Willard Harley. If you want to try his plan, we're here to help you. If you want to do something different, we are very sorry to tell you that there's not much track record of success that way, and much great pain.

We were personally involved when we went through this. And as for guidance and compassion - why do you think we, who have been through affairs in our marriages, come back to post to people like you? Have you seen the registration dates of the people who have been posting to you? Have you seen how many posts they've made? Why do you think they do that year in and out, when they have lives of their own to lead - marriages to nurture?

Has anyone here given you the attitude that some of your friends would give? Has anyone here told you to leave her? Do you understand that we're giving you Dr Harley's advice, and the goal of that advice is to give your marriage the best possible chance of recovery?

Ok. I believed I mentioned this. I was fully made aware last weekend. Since then my wife left the next day to our country house with the kids. School is out now. The other woman is a teacher. So she is home now to i assume. Odds are not much will happen during the summer months. My wife is out of work as well for the summer. That is why the "catching" part will be more difficult. My plan as of now was in three weeks when two of my kids go to sleep away camp to contact the other woman. Tell her what was going on and go from there.

CG, which of Dr. Harley's resources have you looked at?

The free video on infidelity?
The Q&A columns on the site about how to survive an affair?
The free Marriage Builders Radio show? (there's an app to listen on your phone)
Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair?
One of Dr. Harley's other books?

You want EXPERT advice from someone who has actually successfully helped many, many couples recover from an affair. Not just uneducated people's personal opinions.

So ... which resources are you using from the foremost expert in infidelity?

Prisca, you say that "if I can't move there is little that can be done". "Then you say there is plenty you can do, but are not willing". That is not true. Moving is not an option for many reason but especially the job that puts food on the table. Period! I am willing to do things. I am willing to get my wifes family involved. I am willing to tell the other wife. Yes. I am concerned with telling people that we know in common. And lets be understanding. The other woman may react poorly in this action of telling "their" friends. Objectively hurting her is not helping me and my wife.

As long as you are not willing to move, this is hopeless. I agree you should expose the affair, but you should also file for divorce because your marriage is over. Sorry.

You are already dealing with the result of not moving so it's not like you don't know the truth.

So please, right now. I am here for advice. Am I supposed to just play along and wait till more happens. Saying nothing. Going along with the summer, family plans and trying to play nice. Realistically I can't change what has already happend and im not excusing or accepting it. I am replaying all the lies in my head and its eating me up. And not helping me physically or emotionally. Stomach is nauseated, can't sleep. Heart racing.

That's great! But if you are not willing to move, you are not willing to save your marriage. Nothing we tell you to do can overcome that because you are facing an on again, off again affair. But, you already know this! Proof is in the pudding.

Advice:

1. hire a PI and get the evidence
2. expose the affair
3. MOVE the hell away

Its not about "willing". First off that takes two people. So maybe divorce is inevitable. And i would whole heartedly agree if he was not married to. I agree 1000%. His wife needs to know. But you guys say it does not matter?

Move away alone. And from my job and kids?

She didn't say that. She meant move the whole family away, as we've been advising you to do.

Ok. Hopefully there is someone with additional help. Repeatedly said in a perfect world that may happen, but she would have to agree to move from her family and uproot the kids. Kids would come first in her mind.

Exposure would help her to see the sense in this. She would see that neither the two of you or the kids could live in the same town where her affair partner lives.

Yes, it is. Are you a slave? If not, you are more than able to move your family away from its biggest threat: the OM.

You are not willing. It's your choice. You don't HAVE to move, but your marriage very likely won't survive. She will hook up with OM again, somewhere down the road. It has already happened once, and it WILL happen again.

Especially if you don't expose. Have you told your kids?

You are headed for divorce. Your finances will be shot. You will see your kids part time. You have a chance to turn this around, but you are digging your heels in and refusing. Why? Do you just want to get the divorce? Because that's okay if you do.

You say you want more advice, here it is.

It matters very much that you expose affair. But nothing we tell you to do will save your marriage since you won't move.

There is no additional help that will save your marriage if you won't move. We have given the correct advice.

No, you persuade your wife to move. Get a job in another town and move.

The kids are not coming first right now if she is having an affair. It is in the kids best interest for you to move away and for their parents to have an intact family. Staying there and risking your marriage puts their security at risk..

Ok. Thank you for the advice. Like mentioned it will be a bit difficult now to fully act with the summer here. I wish it could be done asap. Like pulling off a band aid. I will seek a PI and gather all the evidence possible. Then expose him to the wife. Then tell my wife's family. Maybe less painful for someone else to do the snooping. Hope so anyway.

Good man! I would read the exposure thread and expose exactly as instructed. Half measures will avail you nothing. If you expose it broadly, you are more likely to kill it. But nothing will never kill it if you don't move away because she will be perpetually triggered.

I take it you never warned this man's wife in the past?

No. Unfortunately not. We used to socialize and go to dinner and drinks, parties with mutual friends. And that is how it started. When we cut that off and literally ignored each other I thought for sure someone would say something. Like hey. What happened? Something. I was always waiting for that from her or mutual frinds, butbit never happened. A few months after I thought we dropped them
some of my friends, local ones whose kids attend them same schools and know him came to me. One actually asked me straightout. What happend with _____ (my wife) and so and so? I denied it. Said kids didn't hang out anymore. We went our seperate ways. Which has happened with other parents of our kids. At one point the other friend (same group of friends of the other friend) went to her one night Me and the wife were out for drinks and my friend gave her the whole "Me" loves you. You should not do anything to hurt him. She knew what they were talking about. Obviously. So they noticed. But the group of friends that we used to socialize with. Not a word. To me anyway. And my wife continued to attend functions with his wife. I always thought that took nerve. We dropped them. Ahe had to know something was up. Assumed it was blamed on me. Something like the other guys flirting pissed me off. It was innocent though. Whi knows. I guess maybe we will find out eventually.

Just know that the OM's wife will likely be furious when she finds out you did that to her. I would be prepared to explain why you wouldn't tell her because that is truly callous.

That is easy. Wanted to protect my kids. Easy enough for me. I made the decision (right or wrong) to handle it that way. Shame on her as well. Open your eyes!! Goes both ways

She saw they were chummy. Can't be a total shock. Like i said. We socialized. Regularly. For her to not be curious is on her

We just stopped. Not gradual. I also went out with him and other guys to football games, dinner (just guys), drinks. And then nothing. So for her to think it was nothing is on her as well. Right after I confronted him. I saw her several times in social settings. She had her opportunity to come to me

Has anyone had experience with PI's. Waiting on a call back now. Besides the following and photos. Will they drop the evidence as well. May be more effective for the initial news to come from them. Seems more professional and concrete. If i was approached by a PI rather then the other spouse. I would handle it differently. Just curious. Willing to discuss after the initial information is dropped.

But, you didn't protect your kids, you harmed them by keeping the secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy. So you endangered her kids as well as yours by keeping their dirty secret. Shame on you for not telling her!

You should expose yourself using the evidence. If a PI approached me instead of the other spouse, I would think "WHAT A PANSY!" This is on you. You didn't step up in the past, its time to man up here.

You should know that keeping an affair a secret only serves to ENABLE IT. [as you have learned] Therefore, we view the ones who keep it secret as enablers. Like Dr Harley says, its very hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler.

Wow. Melodylane. Blunt!!! This site full of tough love advice.

yep!

Most of it from women. We would never stand by and let our families be destroyed the way you are doing.

Im not standing by. It was brought to me 4 days ago. And trying to analyze it all

Blind rage is never a good thing

Has blind rage been recommended to you here?

You feel a blind rage?

No. That is why I am here. To see what my options are. On this forum there is only one option. And i am partial to it.

First off I am not having second thoughts. I just took a pleasant call from her planning a nice family trip this weekend. I don't get it. So difficult to understand.

She has to come next week for kids doctors appointments. Hopefully i can have something in place by then. Or I am on my own to investigate further.

Conflicted,

Just plain and simply you're an ____ (fill in the blank) for not in the least considering the advice here. This is Your wife and your family. Do you have a better plan that will keep you financially intact??

Tom

I am taking advice. I am getting PI. And when I have the necessary evidence I am going to the other wife and then telling my wifes family. Go from there. People keep saying I am ignoring it. Trust me, no way. Not sure you were following along. Do I have enough evidence right now? She is 3 hours away and will be for most of the summer. Not together. Im sure in contact, but no way to get on her phone. No chance. This can't continue. Some people have a ton of support. Family and such. I dont. Friends. All married. Cant just blow up and leave. Need a plan. There are three kids involved. We are not young twenty somethings that can go home to mom. Well she could go home.

Why is your wife 3 hours away? That is not a good thing. Where is she and what is she doing?

Can you check online phone records?

Here Private Investigators

We have a lake house. She is there with our kids.

Melodylane. I thought you were following from the beginning.

Yes, I have.

Nah. I dont believe online phone records show imessages. And not sure she hasn't gone to a message app (like whats app or something) after the first incident.

You keep saying this, and I keep asking you: who here has told you to blow up and leave? Who here has told you go to home to mom?

I'll ask you again: do you understand that we're giving you Dr Harley's advice, and the goal of that advice is to end the affair for good, and after that, to give your marriage the best possible chance of recovery?

Ok. Maybe starting a new post would be more beneficial, but I will start here. Based on the history and the new information where a friend saw the ww and the same guy (in a public) how much do I need to confront her? It was already agreed, No Contact. And that was violated. Once again I am sure it was either Imessages or message app. And I can not physically get onto her phone. If I have her followed, odds are I am going to get some more evidence of the behavior that I already have proof off. How long do I let this go on? I do realize that maybe I should have acted sooner, but at this point that will help me mentally or change anything.

The other question is when confrontation day happens, do I send a message to the other wife at the moment? How long should I wait? Facebook messenger ok? Do I tell [censored] much detail as possible or keep it brief? I already jotted down a hand written letter.

An lastly, Obviously after confrontation time I can't just lock her down. How do I know she will not contact him or how do I prevent that. It seems impossible? At I do work and can't follow her 24/7. Obviously a connection / bond there, foolish (this time) to think she will not make contact weather its to try an contain some of the situation. Who knows?

Exposure is not about exposing to or confronting your wife. You can certainly tell her you are aware that she is continuing an affair AFTER you have obtained evidence and exposed. Or she can just find out when people (perhaps OM) contact her to ask her about your exposure. It doesn't really matter how she finds out you know.

Are you reading our posts? I am sure someone took the time to address how you should properly expose to the BW. Sending her a FB message is easily intercepted. You clearly know her well and I am sure you can find a way to speak to her personally about this. I would get evidence first though. It sounds to me like OM spun a story the first time around (which was easy for him to do since you chose to keep this all a secret), and he could easily brush off a third hand account of someone seeing them together.

I have read. Somewhere I thought I read it was ok to send message via FB instant messenger. I appreciate any and all advice. I have been reading a tremendous amount of information. It will be tough to make contact even though I know her. She does not work summers (teacher), kids are home from school (summer vacation) so can't just knock on her door. Can't wait on the street. Too risky if he drives by, He knows my car. I don't have her cell #. Any other suggestions?

This is alot to process. You guys weather you have been through it or not make it seem so easy. Its not for me right now

I have explained. The summer is tough. We have a second home. Wife spends alot of time there with our kids. So not so easy to get additional evidence.

Have you contacted your doctor for some short term ADs (antidepressants)? Dr. Harley recommends them during this trying time.

Can you borrow a friend's vehicle?

The people who ignore this stuff are not the ones who make it out of infidelity alive.

I have a feeling I already know the answer to this one. Do I really have to wait till I get her at a hotel or record (audio or video) some type of sex act. Although the thought may be in my head. Seeing it or hearing it may be a no return point for me.

And I doubt that anyone will agree that with the past and present knowledge, i can expose and tell family and friends and ow. Then we can all attempt to get through to her she needs to stop and seek ic and mc? You all seem to be in aggreement that this drug (Affair) cannot be broken. Did you all have to watch / hear your ww / wh having sex to have enough proof?

who is ignoring it. Once again. Nothing going on this week!!! She is away with our kids. Probably communicating, but not meeting each other.

You need evidence of an affair. You don't have that yet. Is the OM coming to your summer home? Does she meet him somewhere from the summer home? That is what you need to find out.


We agree that you need to get the evidence and expose the affair.


That is cute and winsome but a major distraction at a critical time. She doesn't need "counseling" she needs to end her affair and follow a program of marriage recovery. We have that here.


NO ONE agrees with this.


Of course not. Even tho this is a sexual affair, you are very unlikely to get such evidence. You might get evidence of them meeting at a hotel or your summer home, but very doubtful you would get evidence of them actually having sex.

No chance at the summer home. Its 3 hours away. She is not leaving our kids up there

Why wouldn't she be able to hook up with him? I don't understand what you are saying? Even the dumbest person could figure out how to make that happen.

Are you able to focus enough to get evidence? Or are you just dismissing the advice because you believe the OM can't drive 3 hours to meet her? I understand there are some parts of outer Siberia that don't have cars, but even many of those places have donkeys and horses. Are you in a place that does not have cars?

Omg. No!! We are talking about a person who is employed, with a wife, and three kids. Is it absolutely possible for him to cut out of work. Drive three hours for them to meet. Of course. But i am realistic. That is highly improbable. WW is not leaving the kids alone for any significant amount of time. Not like at home when she uses excises like going to work, getting administrative work stuff done, errands, or socializing with "co-workers" or friends. Who I know exist. But are very close. So no. I don't think any meeting is going on there.

I am here working and she is there with our kids. Not to mention. If it was possible he made it up there How would you like me to investigate that? Or tell her she cant go there? Is that realistic? I need to be focused. Yes. She will be back.

Before the exposure. How much evidence is enough? I re-read today, expose as soon as the affair is known about. Im not an idiot. I know about it and they were seen together. Multiple times.

I am willing to do what I need to get more. But has anyone lived a calm, cool, and collected life while putting the extra evidence together. Not easy. Not a whole lot of testimonials here. Certainly alot of distracting accusations of me ignoring it, overlooking it, not acting on it. If i could just flip open a computer or cell phone. Grab the evidence. And expose. Wouldn't that be great. Yes. It was not handled the beat way the first time. People certainly keep mentioning that, well isnt that obvious now!! Thanks I am living this life with a lying and cheating wife. I get it.

When will she be back?


She can bring the OM right in the house and do anything. And she can leave the kids alone if need be. Why would being with the kids stop her? I don't understand because its not like they know anything.

I have saved my marriage but I am not here to give you a "testimonial;" but to help you save your marriage. That is what you asked for, right?



This is a distracting comment. If someone tell you this, you need to listen. You are the least objective person on this thread. If posters feel you are ignoring the advice or being cocky they will stop posting to you.

No, not possible for him to come into the home. There is no excuse for her to leave the kids for alone up there for any period of time. They are together 24/7. I am going there Sat. And we will all be home Wednesday or Thursday till Saturday. I would imagine she will see him then. Even if its the casual parking lot meet ups to smoke. They are both closet smokers.

It wasnt like she was going out every week during the evenings with these crazy stories. It was like once or twice a month. I really do believe its an emotional affair as much as sex or more so. She most likely enjoys talking to him. He is not a sense of reality. Its a break from kids and life stresses. (Although I personally would be stressed out running around and lying). I dont believe he has any intention of ever leaving his family for her and combining families. Its a get away from their lives. I am sure there are plenty of cases where one of the parties involved is single and looking to break up a marriage. This is not that. That I'm sure of.

So this is a start. You could have the PI watch them when you think they will meet up. How do you think she communicates with him?

My kids are already suspicious of her disappearing acts when she is home. She tells me she is smoking. Which is partially true. Im sure she is smoking, but with him. I get it. I am facing this head on. It didnt start yesterday, yes I made mistakes. I am here to get it straight.

But as you have said. Meeting in public. And having a smoke is not enough. Even with a no contact agreement

How come?

You have now 11 pages of advice from people, many who have saved their own marriages after an affair by following MB advice. You have yet to take action. You have given a lot of lip service to the fact that you can't do this or can't do that, but you have not *problem solved* how you can do it. And you certainly haven't done it.

People bring up the fact that you did nothing last time, because as we speak you have done nothing NOW. We have people on this forum, with little technical ability, with WAY less information than you have about the OM and BW, who found a way. They found a way to get information, to install spyware, to install a VAR, to get a PI on it, to get contact info for the AP's spouse. Sugarcane told you how she did this when her husband was having an affair with someone in an other country who she did not even have a full name for. People have gotten the evidence and done a full blown exposure within days. They have not had to play house for a whole summer because when you are serious about getting evidence you will. You won't even check the phone log because she 'probably' didn't use that. You don't even know!

Do you want to do this or do you want to keep making excuses as to why it can't happen in New York, how magically we must have all had it easier than you do. You can get this done when you become serious about it. Right now I see a man who does not want to find solutions to his obstacles. Nobody can get this figured out for you.

1. Get the evidence. Nobody said this had to be a photo of them having sex. Spyware on her phone would get evidence in a day I bet.

2. Do a FULL exposure. I know you are planning some partial exposure so you don't have to tell your mutual friends. I think this is denial that your entire life is going to change, like you can just quietly make it go away and resume normal life with these people. I think it is a mistake. This is your second go around with what is now a long term entrenched affair. You can not afford to do partial anything.

By phone. Probably listed under a friends name. Im not phone savy. Her iphone buzzes at times and no message notification. I have asked before. And she said. Oh that is an email message. Idk for sure. But she is protective of the phone

I cant get on her phone. That simple. She is 175 miles away What do you suggest that I do????

I don't have her Itunes password. Or anything like that. Do you have a way to get spyware on her phone without touching it. Or having the password?? Please help. That would be great.

What is the quoting?. Should I avoid my kids? I dont get it. Yes its my house too.

Without the spyware. What are my options? I am serious.

When she is followed. What is sufficient evidence. I am serious.

Evidence of an affair would be sufficient.

Omg!! How come its not possible for him to come into the home? Well....my kids are there.

My primary. Lets just say. My retired neighbor is home all day and. I have a job where I periodically stop home unannounced. It would not be a safe place

So your kids would run him off? That is surprising given they don't even know about the affair, do they?


Does the neighbor know about the affair?

Im not spyware savy. I know this much. I cant flip open the laptop and go on to verizon account and read imessages or whats app if she has that or something similar. She has nothing on her lap top. She is smarter than that. It been talked about. She lets our 10 year old. Who is probably more computer savy then. Both of us use it. She would not link messages for him to read.

No. Why would he. He is the kind of guy who would say he saw something suspicious. Like. A car showing up. That is not even possible. I am in an out of the house sporadically. As well as the kids. My sister and bro in law live around the corner. And her parents live 5 houses away. The house is not. A safe place

Our town is not a safe place. Lets leave it at that. They meet the next town over where he works. I have a job where I am driving around all day in the town. Hope no one is reading this. Very easy to figure out who I am. Lol

My kids know him. And are not babies. That would be super weird. No way. Why would he come into my home not a safe place. A man coming into the house when kids are home. Wtf is that.

Some ways to spy on her would be to place a GPS on her car and a voice activated recorder under her car seat. Additionally, you need to get spyware on her phone a keylogger on her laptop. Have you visited the operation investigate forum? A good PI might be able to help you with much of this. Have you found a PI yet?

He is a family friend. Why would that be weird? It happens all the time!

You may be describing a situation where a man is trying to move in on my wife. This is suposed to be a scret affair. Between two married people. Not in your face. Well not anymore

Not any more he is a family friend. My kids got the sense of that. We recently had a formal party for my daughter. Leave it at the. They were not invited.

Somethings dint have to be said to kids. They pick up on it. If he came to the house. My kids would be like wtf? Any man cam to my house alone. Would be that talk of the dinner table.

And why would.he come into the house at this point. what purpose would that serbe. He knows i despise him. Made that very clear. For him to be seen in or around my home would not help his purpose. You dont see that

What is significant evidence. In a public setting. A kiss?

What would a reasonable person consider evidence of an affair?

Hmmm. Two married people meeting in the same place (semi private parking lot). five days in a row I guess it could be spun

"We are just old friends, chatting and smoking. we had to hide in a parking lot because of my crazy, insanely jealous husband."

yeah. a story like that may work for them. But honestly. Two married people don't behave like that without speculation. And if that is all I had. Would put everyone on notice after exposure. And his wife would not just blow that off. She would then be on guard. See these morning meets near his job, his wife was already at work and he was a 1/2 mile away from his office. They would leave a lil early. In hind sight. My wife would say she is getting coffee on the way in. And i was usually on my way out to work or dropping my daughter at school. Easy excuses. NOT SAYING I'M NOT DIGGING DEEPER, but the summer schedule with kids home and neither of the wives working does not make it as easy for them. Not saying they wont meet, but they had a routine that worked. Now timing is off. I'm sure my WS will say she is going for the morning dunkin coffee.

Anyone read this. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/89347242/

On the evidence you need to expose:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_exposed.html

This has been going on for a long time and they won't just give it up. You need to wait until you get the evidence to expose. They won't stay apart for long. If you expose on the flimsy evidence you have now, they will just go further underground and you will never get the goods.

Not all betrayed spouses see what is going on without substantial evidence. If there are two possible scenario's, they prefer the kindest and least disruptive to their life.

There is a good possibility that without good evidence, his wifr will believe nothing bad happened, because he will downplay what has happened ("just talked, no way I would ever cheat, her husband is paranoid").

Let me put this another way. If you expose now with the flimsy evidence you have, you are headed for 7 levels of hell. They will demonize YOU for making such a big deal out of a mere "friendship," while they just go further underground. You will SENSE something is very wrong but since you have forewarned them, they will become much more careful.

You have a unique advantage right now in that she doesn't know that you are watching and will mess up. Don't throw away that advantage, my friend.

Get to work, hire a PI and start sleuthing.

So what is your plan to collect the evidence you need to espose?