I am so frustrated with the Oscars last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> - I just need somewhere to vent and express some of my concerns... what better place than good ol' MB forums!
First of all- I am so saddened by the events happening our world today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> - and I, in no way shape or form, would like to see devestation happen in any country- especially our own. But, with that said, I am even more sickened and saddened by the outward stand that Hollywood is taking on this issue- based on these reasons:
1. It literally makes me sick how twisted things are with Hollywood. How can a "shoot em up" movie with excessive violence and extreme scenes be considered "art" and even be applauded by Hollywood- with the statistics and facts showing that it is
exactly these movies that are raising our crime rates and "numbing" our minds to what is acceptable and what isn't? But when it comes to the real deal (War in Iraq)-they are publically opposing it in every way shape and form.
?Are they opposing WAR or President Bush? Michael Moore (Bowling for Columbine) said last night "I've invited my fellow documentary nominees onstage with us. They're here in solidarity with me, because we like non-fiction. We like non-fiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in a time when we have…fictitious election results…and a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons…we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you." It is my understanding that even though he got a few "boos"- alot of celebs gave him a standing ovation! My Gosh! Shame on you, Hollywood- Shame on you.
2. NOBODY has any idea what the President knows (as far as intel) about the terrorists, Saddam Hussein and his weaponry. I think it is really SAD when people make judgements about a situation they know very little about- based soley on lack of knowledge (some people call this Ignorance). HOW IN THE WORLD does anyone in Hollywood or elsewhere know what the President knows? There are inevitably things that he is not telling the American people about this war- because of INTELLIGENCE REASONS. That is why we are not on staff in the intelligence!!!! Do you think that Bush is the only president that has had to keep KEY info from the American people? Don't you think that if he COULD tell us everything he knows, HE WOULD?!? (Esp. to save face right now).
3. Why was it so much easier for Hollywood and everyone else to believe in our last president- who was a proven liar...???? This baffles me. Bush has done nothing wrong! In all of this he has tried to maintain integrity, honesty and has kept in prayer about the whole thing (did you know he gets up and gets on his knees every morning!! For YOU and for ME and for our country!) It just seems to be the "popular thing to do" in Hollywood right now (to oppose the war- and the president). It was almost like, "who can say the best and most 'moving' line about peace and opposition to everything the Pres. is trying to accomplish!" I think that is awful.
4. I thought it was so funny how they are all saying "let's get those troops home" as if the troops didn't want to be there! Most of those Military signed up because they wanted to protect and serve! It is the people here who don't want them there!!! Let's support our troops by supporting what they are doing there, for crying out loud. How discouraging it is (I have read reports) for our troops to have so many people not believe in what they are risking their lives for!
I am sorry this is so heated. I will calm down sooner or later... I know this will probably be deleted by the moderators at some point- cause it hits such a tender nerve with so many people... but maybe we can try to keep it light and informative... and don't let the discussion get out of hand (or did I already screw that up) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ?
<small>[ March 24, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Ma Ma Mia ]</small>
Yeah, amazing how people always bring politics into places it doesn't belong, isn't it?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I figured there would be some of that, and just ignored it and watched the show....
"We must face the fact," President John F. Kennedy once said, "that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient -- that we are only 6% of the world's population -- that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind -- that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity -- and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem."
Well, just in case this thread gets out of hand and gets sent to parts unknown....
Let me say, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, MAMA! My H is military (23+ years) -- just came off of 1-yr active duty flying those troops and equipment to parts unknown in the desert, and he is TOTALLY p.o.'d at those liberal Hollywood IDIOTS right now. What do they know? Why do they think their "celebrity" status makes them in any way an informed authority on issues that our leaders have specific intelligence about? Just makes me sick....
O.K., I'm gonna go calm down now, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Bravo for stating your opinion! I concur with you. No matter what your opinion is on the subject, the Oscars is not the place to express them.
And it is my opinion that now is not the time to protest the war. The war has already begun; let's rally our energy together to support our troops.
I thought Michael Moore was being booed as he spoke. I must've missed the ovation all together.
I thought Steve Martin was funny as he was talking about actors "they can be tall or short, skinny or thin, Democrats or...thin." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I had no problem with the winners who wished for peace and a return of the troops.
I hope for resolution and peace, as I support our President and our troops, as I supported my husband and his army unit during their 7 month service in Desert Storm. If he had been deployed again, he has my support. He's not liking "fighting the war behind his desk".
Celebrities have a right to free speech...but they have more access to press than most of us and are utilizing it.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lor (Lor):
<strong> as I support our President and our troops, as I supported my husband and his army unit during their 7 month service in Desert Storm. If he had been deployed again, he has my support. He's not liking "fighting the war behind his desk".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H feels the same way. As we were watching t.v. coverage the first night of this war H said "I feel like I'm not doing my job. I should be involved." He was very involved during Desert Storm and lots of other "incidents" since then, but the Air Force took our unit off active duty when they de-commissioned our planes last month (already way behind schedule); they don't have any planes to fly. They feel left out of everything. We're both really tired of everyone asking when/if H is going to have to "go back over there"....he's chomping at the bit to do his part, but it looks like the rest of this war will go on without him. (ahhh, shoot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
Lori
<small>[ March 24, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: at peace ]</small>
I thought it was so funny how they are all saying "let's get those troops home" as if the troops didn't want to be there! Most of those Military signed up because they wanted to protect and serve!
Of course the troops don’t WANT to be there. But they will go there when needed. Just like they don’t WANT to die, but they will give their life if needed.
at peace/Lori,
I don't think I understood until these past couple of years that being military means being a soldier prepared and ready for war. It's what my H does over 40 hours a week.
I told my H that since he had my support, along with our daughters (teenagers), and he did volunteer to fill slots in local deploying units, but was told he was needed where he is, that if God meant for him to be there, he would be. It didn't help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> he's chomping like your H. And I understand that he has skills learned in Saudi that would be useful, he's seeing logistics where the wheel is being re-invented, which frustrates him.
Here is a simple solution to your problem. When you find an actor or actress that speaks out against the President, DON'T GO TO THIER MOVIE OR WATCH THERE MIDNUMBING TV SHOWS. Don't just do it till the War is over do it forever a sort of boycott, till they publically apologize. The idea is to put the pressure back on to them. One person doesn't have the power but how about a million people or ten million people. I am sure that would impact thier lifestyle, if they aren't selling movie tickets or tv advertising nobody will want them. Stand up and be proud. Your opinions count but make it hurt thier pocket book.
God Bless all the troops and The President of The United States.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lor (Lor):
<strong>
I had no problem with the winners who wished for peace and a return of the troops.
Celebrities have a right to free speech...but they have more access to press than most of us and are utilizing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not disputing that all people have a right to free speech. But IMO this turned into a left wing political awards ceremony more than it was the Acadamy Awards. I just don't think it was the most appropriate place to express their views- Do it on Jay Leno or David Letterman or something like that instead. Get my drift?
My simple suggestion to nto get this thread deleted Mama is to simply utilize your MB skills and apply them to the problem.
For example:
Why didn't the actors and actresses POJA their statements with Pres Bush first? Oh ya, cause he could care less about what they think. OOps, that may have been a disrespectful judgement.
Okay, well here it goes: Don't get too upset over it. I have met and dealt with those actor types and Michael J Fox's sister (for example) and Matt Perry.
These cliques are SMALL and conformist!Think about it. They are all concerned with public opinion and poularity and making the right impression. If they weren't, they would all end up like Michael jackson! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
That is wy they are grouping together and agreeing with one another's opinions. They are utilizing the war as a jumping ground to go along with public concern that the war is a BAD thing! They MIGHT have some value beliefs that the war is bad, but even if they DON'T, they are gonna nod their heads and agree with one another, in hopes that fans/press/fellow actors will remember they were the ones that wagged their finger at Bush saying "Bad, bush, bad"
Can you imagine someone like Nicole Kidman getting up there, saying "Woohoo for war! Bush is right!" That kind of statement will ignite the tabloids...saying she condones the killing of innocents and backs Bush (maybe even sleeping with him..? Who knows with the pap!)
Really, politics will go hand in hand with the Oscars, whatever popular opinion is, is usually eminated in plastic smiles and PR-employee written lines.
It's all an act.
Ma Ma,
I get your drift. Other than Moore, the ceremony was much less strident anti-Bush than I expected. I held my breath with Streisand (she said her piece, briefly enough), Sarandon (peace sign), Gere....
This is who these people are. But since one winner said speaking about it was "prohibited", I think the organizers made an attempt to keep it from being one big anti-war speech. It wasn't completely successful, but I do wonder what "urging" not to speak went on? Maybe like football $$$fines when a player engages in taunting? Anybody know what "incentives" there were for not speaking out?
Michael Moore is not one to uphold the notion of non-fiction (truthfulness)...or fictitiousness in anyone. His latest Mockumentory is filled with inaccuracies and out-and-out fabrications and scene/situation set-ups that he pretends are spontaneous. When called to task about the set-ups and creative editing, he spins and obfuscates with the best of the politicos. His protected speech was a glaring example of hypocrisy.
~
I agree with mama. I also no longer have any respect or admiration for the oscars (See next paragraph). Yes Michael Moore said things better left unsaid in the place he was at. That is free speech though and I won't dis him for that. I am however very disturbed that they gave an oscar to a FUGITIVE!!!!
Roman Polanski pled guilty to statuatory rape, he allegedly drugged and raped a 13 year old, then fled the country and has not returned.
I personally think that the movie and tv industries are too liberal in what they tolerate from the role models of our youth.
<small>[ March 24, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: MyBestFriend'sWife ]</small>
When you find an actor or actress that speaks out against the President, DON'T GO TO THIER MOVIE OR WATCH THERE MIDNUMBING TV SHOWS.
IF you disagree with their vies & politics, then fine. But just because they disagree with the President is not a reason to boycott them. After all, we are talking about America and one reason we are in Iraq is to make sure you CAN disagree with the President.
I don’t watch Meg Ryan movies because of the fiasco with Russell Crowe.
I also no longer have any respect or admiration for the oscars.
The Oscars did not promote anything except the people nominated. Those people chose to use the platform to out forth their beliefs, good or bad. They (the actors, writers, etc) need to stick to why they are there.
Celebrities have a right to free speech
The problem with it is that since they can be very public & get the attention, people seem to think they are “authorities” on the issues and not just speaking their mind/opinion.
Or they stand up for a cause or organization, then do not know anything about it.
Got principles? Stick to ‘em.
<small>[ March 24, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>
I personally think that the movie and tv industries are too liberal in what they tolerate from the role models of our youth.They are only role models because you let them be. Simply because they are famous and on tv/movie screens does not make them role models.
Michael Jordan says he is a role model, puts himself up as that and acts accordingly (usually <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).
Dennis Rodman on the other hand says he is NOT a role model just because he plays ball. He says if people want to see him as that, then it is their problem, not his. I agree
I got the following in email from a friend today.
-----
The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to anyone and everyone who will listen. They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid" , "morons", and "idiots." Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American. So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country? Let's look at the biographies of these "stupid", castigating them:
President George W. Bush:
Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic re-election victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other that Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate towin the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo. (Someone began circulating a false story about his I.Q. being lower than any other President. If you believed it, you might want to go to truthorfiction.com and see the truth.)
Vice President [censored] Cheney:
Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both in political science. Two years later, he won an American Political Science Association congressional fellowship. One of Vice President Cheney's primary duties is to share with individuals, members of Congress and foreign leaders, President Bush's vision to strengthen our economy, secure our homeland and win the War on Terrorism. In his official role as President of the Senate, Vice President Cheney regularly goes to Capitol Hill to meet with Senators and members of the House of Representatives to work on the Administration's legislative goals. In his travels as Vice President, he has seen first hand the great demands the war on terrorism is placing on the men and women of our military, and he is proud of the tremendous job they are doing for the United States of America.
Secretary of State Colin Powell:
Was educated in the New York City public schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. He also participated in ROTC at CCNY and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon graduation in June 1958. His further academic achievements include a Master of Business Administration recipient of numerous U.S. and foreign military awards and decorations. Secretary Powell's civilian awards include two Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy Distinguished Service Medal. Several schools and other institutions have been named in his honor and he holds honorary degrees from universities and colleges across the country.
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld:
Attended Princeton University on Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval aviator; Congressional Assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59; U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; Assistant to the President, Director of the Office of Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the President, Director of White House Office of Operations, White House Chief of Staff, 1974-77; Secretary of Defense, 1975-77
Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge:
Was raised in a working class family in veterans' public housing in Erie. He earned a scholarship to Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967. After his U.S. Army, where he served as an infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star for Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law Degree and was in private practice before becoming Assistant District Attorney in Erie County. He was elected to Congress in 1982. He was the first enlisted Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was overwhelmingly re-elected six times.
National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice:
Earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Doctorate from the University of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies.
Both of her advanced degrees are also in Political Science.) She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame in 1995. At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by
courtesy) of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain also has written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions. From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she servedas Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997,she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender-Integrated
Training in the Military. She was a member of the boards of directors for
the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula. In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting
for San Francisco. Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. She resides in Washington, D.C. So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What is their experience in affairs of State or in National Security? While I will defend to the death their right to express their opinions, I think that if they are going to call into question the intelligence of our leaders, we should also have all the facts on their education and background:
Barbara Streisand: Completed high school - Career: Singing and acting
Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade. - Career: Singing and acting
Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton. - Career: Acting
Jessica Lange Dropped out college mid-freshman year. - Career: Acting
Alec Baldwin Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal - Career: Acting
Julia Roberts Completed the 10th grade of high school - Career: Acting
Sean Penn Completed High school - Career: Acting Susan Sarandon Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in
Washington, D.C. - Career: Acting
Ed Asner Completed High school - Career: Acting
George Clooney Dropped out of University of Kentucky - Career: Acting
Michael Moore Dropped out first year University of Michigan. - Career: Movie Director
Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School - Career: Acting
Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School - Career: Acting
Mike Farrell Completed High school - Career: Acting
Janeane Garofelo Dropped out of College. - Career: Stand up comedienne
Larry Hagman Attended Bard College for one year. - Career: Acting
***************
While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security. They are privy to information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the threats to America, and the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting governments. They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI, Interlope, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies around the world. We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of the threats because we watch CNN!! We cannot believe that we are in any way as informed as our leaders. These celebrities have no Intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country. They only have a deep-seated hatred for all things Republican and many things American. By nature, and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest Conservative views and anything that supports or uplifts the United States of America.
The silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton bombed a pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held. When our Rangers were ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost, not a peep was heard from Hollywood.
Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its own soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed by freedom-hating terrorists while going about their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the war. Why the change? Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the White House. Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in office, the Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world peace.
It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm.
They believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will eventually be used against us in our own cities.
So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities believe that since they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also determine the course of our Nation? That they can make viable decisions concerning war and peace?
Did Michael Moore have the backing of the Nation when he recently thanked France, on our behalf, for being a "good enough friend to tell us we were wrong"? I know for that certain he was not speaking for me.
Does Sean Penn fancy himself a Diplomat, in going to Iraq when we are just weeks away from war? Does he believe that his High School Diploma gives him the knowledge (and the right) to go to a country that is controlled by a maniacal dictator, and speak on behalf of the American people? Or is it the fact that he pulls in more money per year than the average American worker will see in a lifetime?
Does his bank account give him clout? The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a shambles of their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous marriages and divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums, etc. How dare they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation! What is even more bizarre is how many people in this country will listen and accept their views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or have fond memories of an old television sitcom!
It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves about the world around us. If future generations are going to enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains strong.
We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware of the severe consequences that will befall them.
Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and join hands, singing Kumbaya and talking of world peace. But it is not real. We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe by simply talking to him. We sent our best and brightest, with the strength and determination that this country is known for, and defeated the Nazi regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words. He stopped them with action and threat of immediate war if the ships did not turn around. We did not end the Cold War with conferences. It ended with the strong belief of President Ronald Reagan... PEACE through STRENGTH.
Don't know if anyone reads any of the "blogs" (weblogs), but here are 2 that are outstanding, IMO.
instapundit.com
and for the women (baba, you might really like this one!) asparagirl.com
She's got some fascinating commentary on women's issues regarding the war.