I've been cooking on this thread for a few days. 2Much2Lose, Tully, Bestfriend, and many more of you are dealing with the same issue.

A number of you have been called on the carpet by well-meaning folks here and in your family for stepping into the Plan B process. They don't understand the purpose of Plan B.

I've been reading "As A Man Thinketh" by James Allen. Google this title and you can actually download the book free from asamanthinketh.net

In particular, I love this quote for betrayed spouses:


This is the greatest gift of Plan B.

Before you removed yourself from the drama equation you were in what we call on the farm "a manure pit". Everywhere, the stench of cheating filled your nostrils - your thoughts and breath were consumed by getting the smell to stop!

Well, that doesn't lead you to think of how to better yourself, your life, and it's difficult to think of anything but the past - back when the marriage didn't stink!

Your wayward spouse accuses you of being the cause of the stinky marriage. But there's only one thing that causes this kind of stench - a wayward heart. And wayward hearts attract stenchy affair partners because they can't tell that they are the source of the stench.

But here's the big truth....

It's not the wayward spouse who is your primary problem.

....

...

..

.


Yes - you read that right. It's yourself. The lacking of any sense of self-worth... by degrees. You believe their blame that you harmed the marriage and they were on their way out well before affair person came around... Yeah right. When it's their own SBDs (silent but deadlies) sabotaging the sanctity of their vows.

If you are to become all that you were meant to be in a marriage, you must be whole, all by yourself.

Plan B is a breath of fresh air. You can think of how to better your life a lot easier when it doesn't stink so bad your eyes water. However, a partial Plan B doesn't accomplish this.

The most impressive moments in the lives of those who share their Plan B progress here – Mimi stands out when she put her dream house up for sale. Rinn stands out when she moved to the shelter. Charlotte when she hired Shiny. And most recently, Tully - yes - you - though you've been battered by your mother in law (a vicarious beating from your husband, actually) you took the Mimi approach and left the dream house.

How would you respond to people if you absolutely knew that you were worth the fidelity requirement?

How would you respond to your wayward trying to break down your Plan B?

Mimi got to that point - she absolutely knew her worth and she would no longer tolerate life with a double-minded man. Her knowledge of her own value is the reason she is such an inspiration here.

Rinn - you know what you thought of yourself before you left the marital home - you left, trusting in the words and knowledge of others, as well as that finality knowledge - you couldn't go on one more day under the threat of verbal, sexual, physical and emotional abuse.

So Plan Bs in progress and Plan B Wanna-B-B-ers, listen up!

Share on this thread who you are - ideal - without your WS defining you. And then read it every day like an affirmation. Remember who you are - sons and daughters of a heavenly father who loves you; find that perfection and let your thoughts lead you to live in the solution instead of the problem.

Bob Proctor wrote a book I've had on my shelf for years. He says:


Plan B is the way to live in the solution. Let the wayward clean up the stench!

I'm setting out some books in the Plan B Cafe - kind of a read, mingle place... Taking suggestions on what to add to the list.

If you want to change your focus and your thoughts, change what you put into your mind. My mentor Vic Johnson says to read from a good book for 30 minutes just before going to sleep and the first 30 minutes after waking.

So here are some great books I have read so far. (please feel free to add to the list)

"As A Man Thinketh" by James Allen
"Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz
"Day By Day With James Allen" by Vic Johnson
"Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" by Stephen R Covey
"Let's Get Real or Let's Not Play" by Mahan Khalsa
"The Holy Bible" - particularly Psalms, Proverbs, Romans Ch 8
"Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill
"You Were Born Rich" by Bob Proctor
"Make the Connection" by Bob Greene and Oprah Winfrey (take what you learn about dieting, and just put "self worth" into the equation - you'll get why I recommend it)
"I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" By Gary Lundberg and Joy Saunders Lundberg

Great idea, Kayla. Plan B is so difficult at first, and it is hard to post to get help because in a good one, nothing is happening re the WS.

Just got 2 books, gonna make some time to read them. Think they can be added to your list....

"Psycho-cybernetics" by Maxwell Maltz-Learn to turn crisis into a creative opportunity

"Learned Optimism" by Martin E.P. Seligman, Ph.D. Acquire optimism and significantly improve your life.

Oh, this is so true. I wanted to have someone to talk to, but I really had nothing to talk about...haha except my own mental state and that was borderline insane.

notable post Kayla :happyholidays:

Thank you Kayla for this!!!!

I feel that I am doing very well in PB. But....I have recently been questioning my M. I always have felt that I did a good job being a husband and father. We were very happy as a family and as a couple.

Then one day....my WW spewed alot of bad stuff about me and our M and simply walked out.

My problem is that at this point she will not admit that she is having an A. She "thinks" that she simply was done with our M, met someone a couple months before she left, and moved on. In her mind she has done NOTHING wrong.

So.....thanks for clearing up a little of my fog!!

Thanks so much Kayla,

I'll need to think about the defining myself one.

Og Mandino books are absolutely awesome.
The Greatest Miracle in the World
The Greatest Secret in the World
The Choice
A Better Way to Live
The Return of the Ragpicker

The Magic of Thinking Big, by David Schwartz

Let me keep looking......

I think this is going to be an awesome thread for those of us choosing to be in Plan B and learning a new way to live and recover....

Ok, here are some more awesome books that I have read, albeit years ago and could use to read them again.

Being Happy by Andrew Matthews
Confidence and Power in Dealing with Others, Jusuf Hariman
Hung by the Tongue, Francis Martin
How to Stop Worrying and Start Living, Dale Carnagie (Mimi's recommendation)
How to Make Friends and Influence People, Dale Carnagie - EVERYONE in LIFE should read this.
Magic of Believing, Claude Bristol
You Can if you Think you Can, Norman Vincent Peale
Tough Times Don't Last - Tough People Do, Robert Schuller

Actually almost all Robert Schuller books are good...

Ok, that's all for now....

Kayla Andy, thanks for this post. You are so right.
I'm one of those deep in Plan B at the moment (started over 5 weeks ago) and I just wanted to discuss further what one of the major advantages of PB has been for me. When you are in Plan A, it's so easy to be influenced by the fog you live with, the WS manages to influence you and make you question your perspective. Before I discovered the A, I knew things were going very wrong between us but he kept telling me that I was paranoid, that I was imagining things, that it was all in my head and I almost believed him. I believed I was going crazy so that it was almost a relief to discover that my anxieties had a real origin that had nothing do do with me.

Later in Plan A, he still tried to push his foggy logic on to me by saying that it was all my fault, that the M was already on the way down due to 'heavy' conversations that I kept imposing on him. (Ironically those conversations were mostly to try to sort out the drift that had come between us.)

Since I've been in Plan B it's as if I see things much more clearly, as if his fog had leaked over and blurred my own vision while I was in Plan A. Now I can see where my boundaries are and see his actions and words for what they really are. I can see how they impacted on my LB and how I need to preserve that by staying dark. It's not that I don't have my moments of doubt, I do, but yet I feel sure in my gut that I am doing the right thing.

The other advantage of holding firm in Plan B is that the WS is forced to make a decision one way or the other and this is something that a cake-eater doesn't want to do. They want to keep both doors open but a Plan B shows them that they have to close one door fully in order to be able to walk through the other one. The problem with my WH is that I feel he may wait and wait until both doors are slammed in his face.

Sorry for rambling on there but it's good to talk about this. Thank God for this forum!

As for recommending a book, I recently read 'Do Good Lives Have to Cost the Earth?' a series of essays edited by Andrew Simms and it helped me to put my own life and happiness into perspective within the larger framework of the world we live in.

I read a very good review today of that thought-provoking book. The reviewer related her personal experience of downsizing certain material aspects of her life and discovering great benefits through environmentalism, without feeling impoverished. I'm inspired to read the essays and try some of the suggestions.

I'm not in Plan B but I'll lurk on this mind-enriching thread. The MB forums can improve life in so many ways!

As I've posted before, I got very busy in Plan B - I started my own business, started a garden, detailed the car, cleaned the house spotless, organized, tossed out junk, volunteered, and let all of my friends know that I was interested in going out and doing things.

I asked for help. Two of my friends came over and we redid my sun room in an oriental style. We painted, put in pictures and knick-knacks that they dug up somewhere, and it cost less than $25.00. It made me feel sooooooooo good.

Oh, and I feng-shei'd my home. Lots of FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks KaylaAndy for your dedication to help us all discover and re-discover the greatness within. I love being inspired by other posts too and I found this amazing quote by Strivin4Better and have it written in my "Freedom" journal.


I am living a day at a time and when people ask what I'm doing for Christmas, I can't really tell them yet. I know it will be a small family event but I am not thinking about it yet. Part of me still hopes a better H is home with us for Christmas, but with each plan B day that passes, I'm remembering the person that I used to be and how happy I was when I met my H. If I can reclaim a piece of that each day, I'm going to be a lot happier at Christmas, with H or not, and really happy after a week, then a month...

I'm going to get started on some inspirational reading and keep popping in to the cafe too. Thanks KA!

Speaking of Christmas and Chanukah, I hope those in Plan B will celebrate this year and make it a special season.

I know it is harder if you have children.

I have no money because I was suspended from work for 2 weeks, but my sons and I are going to make it a wonderful experience. I've got them both at home this year and we are going to do all of the free things of the season. Also we are going to donate any money we would have spent to those less fortunate.

Absolutely, Believer! I usually handle the holiday "stuff" so it isn't a stretch for me to take on all the "little things" that make the holiday special (lights; the tree is up, although smaller because I had to do it on my own; lots of greenery; etc). I also got the Christmas shopping done for the kids, but this year, I really tried to stick to their lists only and have let them know there will just be less stuff this year (they seem ok with it).
I have also given myself permission to not worry about gifts for anyone other than my kids this year. I will make my fabulous cookies for people, but no personalized gifts. I just don't have it in me to give that singular attention. I think people will understand...
On the other hand, I have made a conscious effort to give more when I tip; donate money even if it means I go without and look for other ways to give even when its not "easy."
I'm really looking at one of the LB my WH did mention -- me always finding money for my needs, even though it might be tight as a family. So I also sent him the totals of what I spent on the kids for Christmas so he is fully informed. Just because I'm in B doesn't mean I need to love bust, right?
But I absolutely agree with Believer -- enjoy this season of good will and lights and let it remind us all of the beauty in others. WS's tend to make us forget what wonderful people are out there. I for one want to keep reminding myself and what a better time of year?
BF439
:MerryChristmas:

Thank you, Believer...

I used to need money to make me happy. All I NEED is money to pay my bills, have food on the table, and cable around so my boys will stay around and watch tv with me.

I absolutely cherish the moments I have with my kids and just let the rest be the rest....

How is your mother doing? Do you know if she got snow?

Great post Kayla,

I'm in Plan B and I've been there since May. One of the things plan B is supposed to do for the BS is separate them from the uglyness and pain of the affair. In SAA they even suggest moving away so that the affair isn't in your face all the time.

In my situation my WW moved so close to my house that I have to go out of my way to avoid her. The only thing that would have been closer would be if she would have moved in next door. Because she has been so close to home it's been difficult for me not to dwell on my situation.

But recently I think I had a breakthrough. I was really depressed. But I'm feeling much better just in the last few days.

The book I'm reading right now is Hope for the Separated. Wounded Marriages Can be Healed. By Gary Chapman.
ISBN-10: 0802436390

Amazon.com Hope for the Separated

My sister gave it to me in March but I didn't start reading it until now. And quite honestly I probably wasn't in a place emotionally or mentally to read this book. I was too hurt.

But... it's a good book I'd reccomend it.
I've been going to a divorce care group at church. when you sign up for the course it comes with a workbook. They also have their own web page with a bookstore that has some awsome reccomended reading. And... (Get to the point) I signed up for their daily emails. Great stuff... in each daily email they reccomend a book from their library. http://www.divorcecare.org/

I've got a short list of books I want to read just from their daily emails.

Here's a few...

Separated and Waiting. by Jan Northington.
Recovering from Losses in Life. by H. Norman Wright.
When the Vow Breaks: A Survival and Recovery Guide for Christians Facing Divorce. By Kniskern, Joseph Warren

And this next one looks really interesting just because of the insight into the wayward mind.

Confessions of an Adulterous Christian Woman: Lies That Got Me There: Truths That Brought Me Back. by Holtz, Lyndell Hetrick

Anyone read any of those?

Queenie - No, no snow where my mom lives. But my sis lives on Camano Island and there is some snow there.

Mom is doing fine. She is feeling good. She is in remission and it might not last very long. The plan is for me to go up there and care for her.

I feel blessed because both of my sons are here. We are going to have a low cost holiday.

There are so many hurting people.

Believer,

You have the right attitude. You seem to be practicing what the Apostle Paul said about contentment. It takes a strong and wise person to be content in difficult times. I'll be thinking about you and praying for you this Christmas season.

Thanks, Amazin. I am content with what I DO have.

Hope things are going well with you.

Yes there are, in mind, body and spirit.

I'm grateful I am not among them for the most part.

I'm also glad your mom is ok today. It's cold for sure, and icy, but not much moisture...

Here in the last week I think I've had a little bit of a breakthrough... I'm starting to be less anxious. I'm starting to learn how to be content.

I've also learned a secret about myself and how to not let words or actions make me angry. I still need to work on it. But it's part of my breakthrough.

Thanks for asking.

Good for you Amazin, this is awesome.

Keep up the great work and commitment to moving foward. You are doing awesome...

I could use this book right now - do you have a title?

Here it is, Kayla. From what I could gather in the review, the contributors are based in Europe, so I'm, not sure whether the book will be published for the North American or other markets.

That book is available on Amazon for $11.92 - and it sounds very interesting. I'm all into simplifying and living with less.

The Chaplin at the base offered Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University last summer.

I took the course and it's made a huge difference in my finances.

I've been able to pay off a lot of debt since July.

Because of that course I became determined. I started being frugal. I started living within my means and I'm content with less. It's made a big diffence.

I've heard lots of good things about Dave Ramsey. Sounds like you are doing a GREAT job!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for setting up this thread, KA. I'm relatively new to the boards and haven't had much to say on a personal thread - because as you say, there's not much going on in Plan B. I've been there since Nov. 9. It is still amazing to me how traumatized I am - flashbacks, nightmares, disrupted sleep, disrupted diet, mood swings, exaggerated startle response. I was raped when I was 14. This really does feel like that - but worse, because this was someone who took a vow to love and protect me.

There was SO MUCH fog - and I was starting to buy into it at the end of my Plan A...to become conflict avoidant just to deal with my burgeoning anxiety...he was SO emotionally abusive. I knew he was capable of that in the past, but it was a complete shock when it was turned on me in the here and now. (He "ended" his first marriage with adultery, also, also while drinking.) In a way, knowing that is helpful now that I'm in Plan B. Plan B and my knowledge of his history have allowed the fog that was invading my brain to dissipate somewhat and to start to see all of this for what it is - the "easy way out" for someone who is focused on making sure that he feels good, rather than on commitment; who is driven by fear of relapse rather than focusing on and committing to alcohol recovery; and someone who has a tremendous sense of entitlement rather than take stock of his life, and challenge himself to accept responsibility and to CHANGE.

WH has honored the conditions of the PB letter, for which I am both grateful and sad - grateful, because I become VERY anxious at the thought of unanticipated contact with him, even in the form of a letter - sad, because part of me wishes that he would reach out...but that is really part of a fantasy that he would suddenly come to his senses. He did just send an email to my IM, letting her know that my name is misspelled on the divorce filing..."just wanted me to know", she said. I really didn't know what to make of that - I'm sure I'll catch it on the final set of papers so am not sure why he wanted to contact her about that. It seems a very minor thing - I'd even say an excuse - on the other hand he might want to be sure that no simple clerical error gets in the way of what he expects to be his "get out of jail at very little cost" card (NOT gonna happen, but WS entitlement is an amazing thing.)

I just went back and reread this...and it is EXACTLY what I DON'T want to be doing - that is, thinking about him, what he might be doing or thinking about all of this. I'm tempted to delete it but will leave it here to remind me that I don't want to stay focused on this.

OK - so here's what I'm doing FOR ME. I own a business, and I'm working hard at it. I also have friends I'm reaching out to. I celebrate Hannukah, most of my friends celebrate Christmas, and my H and 4 adult stepchildren do too. I called my best friend a month ago and asked if I could travel there for Christmas/Hannukah, and if I could do some cooking/baking when there, because that's such a big part of the holiday season for me. She welcomed me and has encouraged me to come ahead. (She is also my IM). I'm looking forward to it but am also scared of this first holiday without my family. But...I'm putting together gifts for my adult stepkids (I was "second mom" for 8 years; we are still close) and am putting them in the mail to their houses, not my H's home (which was my home until I separated from him and moved to another city.) My youngest is still at his house, so will send that there...but in particular do not want presents from me under the tree there. I'm gone, and that needs to be a real thing for him, and for me.

I'm starting to go back to the gym and am trying to eat better and get my sleep re-regulated (a real challenge.) I'm definitely in the one-day-at-a-time phase...and am in a 12 step group, which is a great bunch of no-b.s., in-your-face folks - just what I wanted and needed.

None of these are particularly "ah-ha" moments; nor are they major accomplishments. But some days just getting through feels like a major accomplishment!

It helps to read how others are working through their own processes...this is such a great resource. Thanks for being there.

Hi miriam,

Well, we have that in common with our WS's. I found out after the major exposure. I told the kids they could tell their mom if they wanted.

Next thing I know they are telling me she wants to talk and we've been talking ever since!! LOL!!

Yeah, mine used to tell me that his XW would always ask him if he was cheating and that she asked him one time too many and he had to leave because she was stressing him out.

Well, I GUESS SO! Since it was TRUE!!

Mine didn't contact my IM much either but he did try to use the PBL against me in court. Judge didn't buy it.

I wouldn't put much stock in him correcting your name. He's probably just trying to goose you through your IM. Playing: "Warped WS Mind Games." (Hey! There's a good thread title! )

You're doing great and the dreams will get better the longer you are in your dark Plan B. As you regain yourself and your personal power, this will be reflected in your dreams.

Take care,

Charlotte

Wow, Miriram, our timelines are very similar, but I could not have done a Plan A as long as you did! No wonder your symptoms are so strong!
Affairs are so traumatizing and since I went into Plan B, a lot of the thoughts and nightmares, etc have escalated, although my day to day is a lot calmer.
Please keep posting -- there are quite a few of us here in PB and it can be pretty hard during the holidays!
BF439

Me: BS 38
WH: 40
Kids: 12,11,4
Dday: 6/30/08 and fully, 10/25/08
currently rockin' Plan B (not really, but doesn't that sound good?!)

Miriam - Good job on reaching out to your friend. It might be hard this time of year, but that is what really helped me.

I told neighbors, friends, workmates, EVERYONE, that I needed to get out and do ANYTHING.

G-d I understand this so well.

I think this is one of the HARDEST parts of Plan B. Keeping ourselves from the drama of the WH and the A. At least it was for me. Partly, we are used to it and it becomes our "normal" and mostly because if we keep involved then maybe there is something we can "do" to bring them home or end the A. Sadly it only hurts us in the end.

I celebrate Hanukkah too. We can help each other through this holiday.

Miriam, you are doing awesome. You truly are. I see myself in you many months ago and you are just moving so well along. Good for you. The stuff you are doing for yourself. INCREDIBLE.... How you are reaching out to build a life and ask your friends for help. That's so important.

MB truly saved my life last year during this time. It's so hard. Please keep posting, coming here, sharing your feelings and know that you are moving and doing AMAZING...

:happyhanukkah:

Queenie - Miriam - I'm glad you two were able to link up here at the cafe. Faith is a big part of our Plan B recovery menu!

When I went to Plan B 12.5 years ago (before Harley wrote about it) I had a sponsor in an anon group (spouses of addicts recovery forum). She was awesome at getting me to focus on my own work of recovery rather than bemoaning my husband's bad behavior (the addiction and anger was unlivable - he hadn't had his EA yet). That's actually why I opened this cafe - because we have plenty of work to do and we get much further focusing on that, than what we are powerless to fix by giving it our attention.

I see some great books being set out on the shelves and some left open on the tables.

One really good book I've been picking up and reading a page or two and pondering for the day is "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill.

Tying in to what my sponsor taught me - I needed to learn to focus on what I wanted, independent of my marriage - what kind of person I wanted to be, what kind of lifestyle I wanted to live. Those kind of things I could choose without my husband having to change a thing.

So Chapter 1 is about how "thoughts are things". Since I work in the periphery of the stock market, I can attest that this is true. Chapter 2 talks about a burning desire for something. Well, since G*d has moved our husbands out of our way, there must be something closer to us (like ourselves) he wants us to have a burning desire about - like becoming more aligned with Him.

Hill uses "riches" or "money" as the example, but you could substitute anything...

So here's my example tonight of what I'm working on (6 steps that turn desires into gold) in chapter 2:
So - what is ___________ for you? (remember, nothing about the marriage in Plan B)

I'll go first.

Here's my clear concise statement:

How about it folks? What is your strong desire to work on within yourself - not a laundry list - just the most pressing?

(Kayla now spreading out the deliciously flavored herbal teas near the coffee machine's hot water spigot).

I think I read "Think and Grow Rich" a long time ago. Maybe when I was in high school.

My brother in law gave it too me. I can't remember if this quote was in that book or one of Dale Carnegie's books.

"Whatever the mind of man can concieve and believe it can achieve."

I read another book recently that talks about the power of the tongue and how if we profess the positive we can change things. But mainly you change yourself from having negative self talk to positive self talk and positive thoughts.

After reading and re-reading here I think one of my big problems in plan B is that I'm still focused on my WW and the marriage. Like I said it's hard for me not to focus on it because of her close proximity to me, the affair is always in my face. If I could move I would but I'm stuck. Thus... I keep worrying about the affair and impending divorce etc.... Not good.

I need to change my focus from her to me. And it needs to be a positive focus on myself.

Is that the idea here?

Charlotte -

In what way did your WH try to use your PBL against you in court?

One of the things I've occasionally worried about is that, early on in the discovery phase and before I found MB, I did the oh-so-typical routine of blaming myself, promising to change, etc., side-by-side with confronting him (not nasty, but firm) about his behavior and addiction(s). I figured out early on that these communications were more likely to be taken in when in writing so I wrote alot of stuff - topped off by a list of sins that I confessed and asked forgiveness for that I wrote for him on Yom Kippur. It was a very honest list, and I included with it a prayer for G-d to remain close to him - and on a personal level I don't regret it at all; it was one of the most loving things I did during my Plan A. The "sins" here were things like having focused too much on work and not enough on the marriage; of deferring his happiness along with mine; - oh, and of enabling his alcoholism by not having drawn a firm line in the sand a year earlier and making it clear I would leave if he didn't get treatment.

However. My lawyer was displeased when I told him about it and I realized immediately upon his response that it was probably also the most spectacularly stupid thing I did during my Plan A. He was none too pleased about some of the other things I wrote - although I told him that there were also plenty of things I wrote that my H wouldn't want revealed in a courtroom, should it come to that.

So here's my question - and I know most folks here aren't attorneys - how likely are judges to fall for this sort of stuff? I mean, there's nothing in the letters that suggests I did things like spending money on affairs, lying to your spouse, drinking in secret, etc. - cuz I didn't. They were more on the emotional end of things - but I was never abusive, just enabled alot more than I should have while at the same time throwing myself more into work as he began drinking more (and vice versa; these are always intricate dances between spouses).

Were I a judge, my own response would be that I'd see anything written in the larger context of what was going on in the marriage - but I also know that judges are people too, with their own biases.

And I'm still really curious how someone would try to use a PBL letter. To do what?

Sorry about your WS and the earlier adultery. Wish I could claim I didn't know, but I did. It had been 20 years earlier - we met when he had been divorced for 18 years, married at his 20 year mark and my 8 year mark... oh, and my previous spouse ended our marriage the same way. Both had a previous history of alcoholism, both had been sober for some years before re-marrying....

And just in case ya'll think I'm not paying attention - YES, YES, YES I see the pattern and understand that this ACOA has alot of work to do - again/still/always...all I can say in my own defense is, ya' should have seen me in my 20's!

Thanks also for the encouragement about the dreams...last couple of nights I've slept better than I have since going into Plan B - 'course, have exercised both days, too...nice to know there's hope!

- M

Hi, Queenie:

Nice to see another MOT!! - (stands for Member of the Tribe) - thanks for the encouragement. I've read your thread alot - and Charlotte's - great inspiration to those just starting out. I wonder if you know the example you have created of your life, for others.

The last couple of days have been both high and low, pretty intensely - hours of crying on Saturday after services and then exercise that night and a reasonable sleep; cooked for myself yesterday and ate well for a change (frozen food is really really salty - yuch!! - and nearly sacrilege for someone who has been eating roughly 70% organic for the past several years); sent out a bunch of Heifer International cards today to family members (I bought a couple of goats in lieu of lots of gifts - not much money right now and I figured it should go places it would really do some good - if you don't know that organization, take a sec to look them up on the web - they do fantastic work).

Was doing well last night - exercised again in the early evening and then started planning meals for the week but lost it again when thinking about the usual tradition of frying latkes and not having anyone to do them for this year. After crying for a while I called to ask my friend (the one I'm headed to on the 23rd) how latkes would fit into their holiday meal... turns out they love them and don't know how to make them!

:happyhanukkah:

Re-reading my own post - no such thing as "just enabled more than I should have". Therein lies the crux of alot of my need for self-improvement...

- M

My day to day is calmer, too, when I am calmer...

I believe that the nightmares, anxiety attacks, moments of confusion (the "where am I in time?" feeling - when you start to respond to something as though you are pre-DDay), and the I-can't-concentrate-on-work-to-save-my-life state - will become progressively less intense (with the occasional setback). I know that from previous traumas and from the lives of others. It's the hair-trigger thing - the errant thought that leads to 2-3 hours of quiet, intermittent crying - that is really bugging me. Knowing me, exercise really does and will help. I've been to the gym 3 days in a row now and am going to try to make it 4 tomorrow.

Hang in there, BF. I do have moments of peace. Real peace. And I'm looking for more.

- M

You are very welcome, Miss fellow MOT. LOL

Good for you, this is the MOST AWESOME organization. I learned about it a few years ago and have always admired it. Such a mitzvah....

This is part of the process that we have to go. It gets better, I PROMISE you. I DIDN'T believe that, but it has....

You really are doing amazing. Feeling those feelings both good and bad, allowing the bad to just be there and looking for solutions and yet still allowing the good part of life to be there for you.

It's important for you to keep having as much normalcy as possible. It helps you build a new life.

As you read my thread, you know I fought this every step of the way. It's like I couldn't allow myself to move forward without him. Patiently, everyone told me to keep moving.

You are doing so good. I KNOW how hard it is. And I'm glad your reading Charlotte's thread. She has so much strength, I just admire her so much.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Miriam}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

:happyhanukkah:

Hi, KA:

I think I just wrote my strongest desire to work on right now in my last post - sort of stumbled in backwards - and it is definitely exercise, so a little bit like yours. I've struggled with a weight problem too - typically run 30 pounds higher than I should - although I must admit things are a bit better after several months on the "infidelity diet". However, I'm getting past that now and starting to creep back up.

The bigger issue really is not the weight, but the disruption in exercise that all of this craziness led to. No one to blame there but me. I exercised very intermittently through pre-Plan A hell, and a bit more in Plan A - but nothing like before D-Day, and nothing at all in the past month. Yet I know I feel better, look better, can gradually lose weight, sleep better, experience less joint pain - all from about 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week.

So that's it. That's my number one thing right now. Followed close on the heels by the getting out and doing ANYTHING with friends thing (liked that, AMAZIN'!)

- M

Miriam - I have my own Heifers International. For the last 4 years, I have been buying cows in Mexico. It started out with 2, and now it is up to 14. I get lots of pleasure from them.

Ok Believer - you have now influenced my dreams! I was on a vacation into the wilderness - like Yellowstone or Glacier - don't know - but I had cows in my camper! (I grew up on a farm, so I am not talking about the nice decorative kind!) But they did have beautiful brown eyes and sweet brown faces (not those big hulking black and whites!)

Anyway - Thinking about what to put on the menu today - I have some lemon poppyseed muffins and some Yogi teas. I've been enjoying "Think and Grow Rich" a bit.

For those of you dealing with running out of energy, may I recommend the "Toughness Training for Life" book by Jim Loehr?

Lots of good information about pacing yourself like an athlete throughout your day, as well as diet and exercise tips... Good stuff!

idey58 needs plan B support :happyhanukkah: :MerryChristmas: :happynewyear:

I love cows. I used to ride quarter horses and practice cutting cows with a herd down the road from the barn. They are so cool - they're just totally in the moment and with each other. Nothing more serene than a cow with other cows around it on a summer morning.

And nothing crazier/running-at-full-speed-where-the-others-are-going-don't-ask-me-look-out-I'm gonna-run-you-into-that-tree when they spook!

Miriam - I love cows too. Mine (in Mexico) look like Brahma bulls- with humps and all. I've been researching and they originally came from India - the weather in Southern Mexico is very hot and they do well there.

Other than that, today was a good day. I went to Walmart and bought 10 sleeping bags and some plastic covers to give to the Mexican field workers here. Went out into the fields and gave them away. The guys were so appreciative.

Yes, this is Southern California, but we are in the midst of a storm. Yesterday it poured, today was clear, and tomorrow the big one comes in. It is COLD for us (I know, I'm whining).

Hope all of the Plan B'ers are hanging in there and enjoying the holidays.

This is a good time of year to be in Plan B, even though it may feel miserable. On the OW board, there is a phenomena they call "the holiday disappearing act". It is going on right now and will continue through the end of the year. Often the stress and memories of the season trigger the WS to miss home, and they just suddenly "disappear" from the OP's life, without saying a word.

Yeah I heard about this from a friend whos mother went through this but then come January he would leave again. No thanks! I Want conditions Damm1t!!!!

Yes, there is the danger of false recoveries, but many real recoveries too. The holidays are much harder on the WS than the BS, believe it or not.

Weather here is still rainy, so I'm starting to make tamales. Good project because it takes most of the day.

MMMM I'm coming to eat some! My parents live in the high desert and they have snow which only comes about every 10 years if we lucky. No snow here tho were too close to sea level.

Eat some tamales for me!!

I'm new to plan C (Can't do Plan B due to a Controlling WH)

I'm desperately trying to establish boundaries and my aggressive/controlling WH is not appreciative of them at all. (if you want a laugh, visit my thread)

But, I'm sticking with it! I was actually reading "Boundaries" last night in the bath before the WH action and it has a special section on Boundaries and Spouses which is amazing. Really, if you haven't read it and you feel that your life is not what it should be due to a lack of boundaries, READ IT. It is very closely aligned to MB principles, ie. cut them out until they are ready to meet your boundaries for your self worth etc, and there are many more.

It's a biblical treatment of boundaries and was given to me when I got married by my old pastor and his wife. If only I had read it back then!!!

I wish I had the book her to quote for you all. See Store website

Add it to the coffee table please KaylaAndy!!

2much - Cloud and Townsend's Boundaries is a wonderful book. I read it in my women's bible study group, and there was a video and study book that went with it.

I had boundaries on CD and listened to it on the way to work. It's kind of a conveinient way to get the info when you have a 45 drive to work. I also have the book.

Two of my sisters read this book a long time ago at the same time .... by chance.

When they got together for a visit one sister said... I'm reading this book you need to read.... My other sister said me too... what is it?.... LOL... They laughed and laughed becuase my whole family seems to have boundary problems. My mother was a good christian woman who had a merciful streak. But that mercy streak seems to be a terrible trait when it comes to boundaries. I think most of my siblings inherited that mercy trait.

Amazin - Good point - a lot of us christian's don't get the boundary thing. We turn the other cheek, treat other's like we would want to be treated, etc.

But the Boundaries book puts it all in perspective. As I recall, we are called to carry our brother's burden (which means things that they are unable to do), but we are not called to carry our brother's load (their basic responsibilities).

2Much - I loved the part in Boundaries where they instruct you to say "NO" and see if someone loves you enough to respect it - the person who loves you will honor that request. The other will abuse you until YOU back down from your "NO".

It was eye-opening to see "LOVE" defined so simply.

Boundaries is definitely out on the table, along with another book they wrote called "Safe People" - excellent book!

Its taken my a while to realise that boundaries are necessary.
In the past I would do and say things just "to keep the peace"
Now I realise its the worst way to behave.

I know my WH regards my PBL as me trying to control the situation...all I'm controlling is my boundaries as I see it...whats best for me in these circumstances....

Do they ever see plan B for what it really is meant to portray?

That's kind of interesting. My WW tried contacting me the Monday after Thanksgiving weekend. She wanted to have a face to face to negotiate the terms of our divorce. I posted her email on my thread and Wildhorses74 did a great job of deciphering her fog babble.

After months of silence I wonder why she chose that weekend to contact me?

Hello fellow Plan B'ers. Today wasn't a good day for me. WH and I met 20 years ago today so all those memories are flooding in. I remember very well the first time I met him, 4 days later he was going back home for Christmas and by then I was in love, sure that I had met the man of my life. What a shame we've arrived here!

Last week I considered posting on this thread....

...but I was 'ashamed' of my record...and worried it could scare off newbie Plan Bers!

This week I am 'proud' of my record...

PLAN B?

Simply put...a lifesaver!

Newbie Plan Bers....take note....my 'record' is not 'typical'... do not despair...

...yours truly just wants to stand up and be counted...

Tully - so sorry today is a bad day for you. Hang in there and do something nice for YOU.

Luna - Glad to see you here.

Tully - I think some total fluff reading would be good for you. There's a children's section a couple paces away from where you're currently sitting. Amelia Bedelia is a fun series for a mom to review with children's bedtimes in mind.

There's a video section under construction. Some of my favorites include "The Gift" and "Pay It Forward". No romance or distractions like that but more, setting your chin and making a choice in the face of the pain of an anniversary, to make life better for you and your children.

Breathe. Grieve. Then take your mind off what you can't stop, prevent or correct.

Good idea, Kayla. When I was in Plan B, I got so tired of reading marriage books! And anything with romance or infidelity was OUT! Better to limit reading and television to something lighter.

Sometimes that is hard. I remember women in my bible study group saying what a wonderful book "The Lovely Bones" was. It turned out to be about a murdered child and her mother's infidelity. YIKES!

Thanks for the word of welcome B.


Me too.

I moved on to more general books about self-discovery, authors like Louise Hay, or part of series like..Chicken soup for the soul...

I find them very uplifting. Usually I have several books started...like, one for travelling to work (public transportation) and one for bedtime...

See them as visiting 'friends'.

Until recently I only read one marriage book SAA. I also read boundaries. I really didn't feel like reading. My sister sent me book to read last March. But I didn't read it until about a week ago. It was called Hope for the separated. By Gary Chapman. It was a pretty good book.

I also go for videos of things I really like the first time but haven't seen for years and which have absolutely nothing to do with the current situation...like, right now I'm slowly working my way through the "Prime Suspect" series(s) w/Dame Helen Mirren. Its been so long that although the plot is familiar, I can't predict it - kind of like visiting with an old friend.

WRT books - am just starting one that a friend recommended - "Being Here: Modern Day Tales of Enlightenment" by Ariel and Shya Kane. Shifts the focus somewhat from "change/growth" to "being" - which for me is change and growth, LOL! I'll report back about what I think once I've gotten further into it.

Hi Miriam,

Shabbat Shalom, how are you doing on this best day of your life...

Shabbat Shalom, Queenie:

Am doing fine. Has been a rough week for some reason but today, better. Have been working at home all day (I'm Central time zone, U.S., another one living in Texas) and now getting ready to return a business call, go mail more business "Happy Holidays" card and go to the gym.

Et vous?

WOO-HOO!

Cafe Plan B!

Had to drop in and do a belly dance!!

My tip jar is over there on that mahogany table...



Charlotte

Shabbat Shalom Queenie and Miriam.

Hope things are going well, despite the snow (Queenie).

Belly dancing tonight? Karaoke tomorrow night! No love songs allowed.

I'll start out - Bon Jovi - It's My Life, it's now or never! I ain't gonna live forever. I just wanna live while I'm alive!!

Awwww....Bon Jovi?

How 'bout Pat Benatar?

"Hit Me With Your Best Shot?"

That'd be a good one for BS's. LOL!

CCR!! Yeah!!! Dem's some good singin' tunes!

Charlotte

:wavingsanta:

Black cat
Nine lives
Short days
Long nights
Livin on the edge
Not afraid to die
Heart beat
Real strong
But not
For long
Better watch your step
Or you're gonna die

Is that something recent? I don't listen to the radio. CD's, mp3's, etc. instead. Too many commercials on the radio.

Anyhoo--the last Bon Jovi stuff I even know about is from a while back. Quite a while.

Probably....let's see....I remember Livin' on a Prayer!



Never was a BJ fan, though.

Black Cat is vintage Janet - 1992 era.

Ok - I can take a hint - karaoke night is a bust!

It's the night before the night before Christmas.

I'm setting out presents and hints for presents - These are the kind of presents we can only give ourselves.

The gift of a kind thought in the face of a lot of "invalidation" of our worth. The gifts of true affirmation -

I love books. Before I found the life-restoring books I've mentioned, I read a lot of trash. It took me getting married and realizing the conflict of "romance novel stuff" makes a lousy life and it no longer appealed to me.

So I set my treasures out on the end tables under the reading lamps in the cafe - well-worn copies of scripture, biography, philosophy, inspiration. The music in the background plays softly - Kurt Bestor Christmas - my favorite quiet time music for the season. In my car on the way home, I might be playing Mormon Tabernacle Choir "Sing Choirs of Angels" and singing along at the top of my lungs, but in this cafe tonight, where not many have visited, I want comfort and peace and assurance for my guests.

The assurance that you are of great worth. That someone knows of your loneliness for the season. And that you are truly not alone!

Beautiful, Kayla..................

Thanks, Kayla.

I am spending the holiday at the home of my best friend of 30+ years. I'm glad I came here - was really desparate to be with loved ones.

My WH and the kids are at our house - the one I left - in another state from where I now live (I was one of those who left the state, moved away).

I have a question - I always text the kids on birthdays, holidays - and I want to text them tomorrow morning (Christmas) - but wanted to add WH to the text list - message simply to say "Merry Christmas - I love you all."

I'm in Plan B, have been since Nov. 9 - have had no direct contact at all with WH. But this seemed like a way to remind the entire family (including him) that I still love them all.

I know Plan B says "nope". I don't want a dialogue. I don't want to hear his voice. My gut says to do this but don't know if I should trust my gut.

What do you think?

-- in the meantime, getting ready to bake cookies - one of my favorite things - and make latkes - also one of my favorite things - in this Hannukah/Christmas household!

:happyhanukkah: :happyholidays:

Never mind - spent the day baking cookies, shopping and hanging with my friends - answered my own question. Dark Plan B is where it's at. There's a lot to be said for staying the course.

Merry Christmas to all of you who celebrate this day -

- M

you got it girl, no contact, no texting, darkness is the best Plan B we have to work for.

What kind of cookies did you bake? Happy Chanukkah..... :happyhanukkah:

Quote of the Day:

Cynthia Kersey - author of "Unstoppable"

Love this!

So a greater purpose today? It's nearly new years. What are some goals and purposes you want to be about for 2009 - greater purpose - bigger than you! that drives you beyond the great pain in your life?

Interesting question, Kayla. I'm starting to think about what I like about my life and changes I want to make in the New Year.

Actually I've made lots of changes since D-day, and am almost a completely different person. Before, I was a mom of 8, and now they are all on their own.

The thing I love most is that I keep a warm and welcoming home. But it has always been like that. Even when my sons were young, our home was the gravitating point for the neighborhood. It is still like that today, 20 years later. So that will remain the same.

Let's see. Cookies:

1) "Mexican wedding cookies" in response to a request from my friend's partner
2) Chocolate chip cookies, 2 batches: the first with nuts and few white chocolate chips thrown in and the second with nuts and a few butterscotch nuts thrown in.
3) Bourbon balls - with a touch of Grand Marnier in addition to the bourbon

Also made turkey noodle soup.

:happyhanukkah:

Good question Kayla.

Right now it's just living one day at a time for me. (Am going to start a new thread I think...) But overall, want to lose weight and be generally healthier - and come out the other side of everything that's happening.

Not too inspiring I guess but at the moment it feels like alot!

:happyhanukkah:

Thought I would bump up the thread, and since this is a thread on focusing on 'positive chat'...

here is a video on 'happiness' that I thought interesting and inspiring.

Of all the things he said, for me, the images that 'stayed' in my mind were.... do you want to live life with the highs and lows of a wave? or, do you want the peacefulness and balance found at the bottom of the ocean, whether or not there is storm up above on the surface of the ocean?

....or something like that.

**edit**

...bumping up thread...

...looking for contribution to thread...

here's mine (source: dailygood.org):

Three Words of Wisdom: "Don't We All?"--posted by jaydeebug on Jan 1, 2009


One evening I was parked in front of the mall wiping off my car. I had just come from the car wash and was waiting for my wife to get out of work. Coming my way from across the parking lot was, what society would consider, a bum. From the looks of him, he had no car, no home, no clean clothes, and no money. There are times when you feel generous but there are other times that you just don't want to be bothered. This was one of the "don't want to be bothered" times.

"I hope he doesn't ask me for money," I thought. He didn't. He came and sat on the curb in front of the bus stop and he didn't look like he could have enough money to even ride the bus. After a few minutes he spoke. "That's a very nice car," he said. He was ragged but had an air of dignity around him.

I said, "Thanks," and continued wiping off my car.

He sat there quietly as I worked. The expected plea for money never came. As the silence between us widened something inside me said, "Ask him if he needs any help." I was sure that he would say yes, but I held true to the inner voice.

"Do you need any help?" I asked. He answered in three simple but profound words that I shall never forget. We often look for wisdom in great men and women. We expect it from those of higher learning and accomplishments. I expected nothing but an outstretched grimy hand. He spoke three words that shook me.

"Don't we all?" he said.

I needed help. Maybe not for bus fare or a place to sleep, but I needed help. I reached in my wallet and gave him not only enough for bus fare but enough to get a warm meal and shelter for the day. Those three little words still ring true. No matter how much you have, no matter how much you have accomplished, you need help too. No matter how little you have, no matter how loaded you are with problems, even without money or a place to sleep, you can give help. Even if it's just a compliment, you can give that.

You never know when you may see someone that appears to have it all. They are waiting on you to give them what they don't have. A different perspective on life, a glimpse at something beautiful, a respite from daily chaos, that only you through a torn world can see. -- Cal

Bumping for the Plan B'rs - here's an invitation to peruse the Cafe's bookstore - embrace the thoughts that help you focus on your own personal recovery...

Luna - I just read your addition to the cafe again tonight - I really needed to read it.

Don't we all need some help?

I noticed over the last two days how many people break their promises - in little ways.

I'm in sales - so when people break promises it hits me in my ability to keep my commitments on a financial level. But worse, I have let it attack my faith that somehow everything will be alright.

Then someone kind of softly reminded me - what do you focus on - and I realized that the majority of the threads I'm trying to help out with some experience, strength and hope are all about infidelity - well duh! yeah! I'm on an infidelity board. That's what happens to people who are here!

But I opened this cafe with the idea that there was a place to go where the focus was on personal recovery rather than trying to fix their WSs. And rather than keep the doors open, with a daily thought or focus, I'd let this page fall off two months ago.

So patrons - my apologies. The cafe is now open.

A couple new books are on the shelves and an old audio tape set plays in the background which was recorded by the author of one of these books.

The tapes? "Mental Toughness" by James Loehr - I'm going to wear them out so I'm going to be finding a CD burner this week - promise! I love the guidance on self-care!!

The books? You Squared by Price Pritchett - a beautiful little short self-help book about finding solutions outside our normal preconceived way.

The other - Toughness Training for Life by James Loehr.

If you'd like, I'll be happy to start a study group on toughness training or Four Agreements.

Please feel free to redirect to the cafe - those here who are suffering from Overexposure to WS Waywardness!

In the opening post of this thread, I introduced a topic of working on one's self.

In reading some of the threads this week a common theme began to come clear to me:

If you fail to manage your emotions in the limbo of deciding whether you want to recover personally, recover maritally or both, your emotions become your enemy.

I work in a field where emotions will bias your perceptions and blind you to what needs to be done. It is no different in regard to relationships.

Emotions are what took our wayward loved ones down a path that violates everything they once stood for. Why should we follow that broken path?

This thread runs a theme of feeding your heart and mind in a way that allows YOU to be in control of your destiny in spite of what you feel.

I think it's time to pull this thread out of obscurity and let people start thinking in terms of self-empowerment rather than self-sabotage.

Friends of your personal recovery and marriage recovery are those encouraging PLANNED action with specific purposes and intentions. Enemies of your personal recovery feed the emotions - poking at your pain with the "divorce his *** now" stick or asking you questions that feed your pain rather than your logic. If you feel a rabid clamoring in your chest about your future, then withdraw from those things that stimulate more rabid feelings!

You need cold hard logic to plan your future with any finesse.

Emotions will fill you with fear and dread, revenge, or false hope. Those feelings must be set aside. Take back your power! Set the feelings aside, until they can be tamed into something warm and inviting and encouraging!

What an INCREDIBLE idea :o)

Yours is a very on-target point, KaylaAndy. As one who grew up in a very dysfunctional family, showing emotions was almost unheard of, and certainly was not well handled by anyone if and when they arose. So I became quite the analytical type, and kept my emotions in check -- a practice that ultimately led me to no good; I became an alcoholic (like my parents) and had great difficulty in expressing my wants and needs in intimate relationships.

Now, when faced with one of the worst events possible in one's life, I found I could not contain my emotions and my logical mind for some reason decided to become absent.

At the end (at this writing, I'm referring to it as such), I allowed my emotional buildup to rise to the surface and ended up spewing anger and vitriol at the woman who had violated every belief and principle I thought she held (just today I was wondering how her A.A. Fourth Step --the one that talks about taking a "moral inventory"-- might go). I am not proud of how this otherwise calm and reasoned person could become such an angry, hurt and venomous character.

My hope now in continuing to read and learn from MarriageBuilders is how to become a more emotional person when emotion is called for, and a more calm and reasoned person when emotionalism is the destructive path to take. The wonder of all this is that I find that I really do have emotions, not just those "feelings" that I buried and pushed aside for all those years.

Hey Fred - good point. "Feelings buried alive never die" is the title of one book I read in my anon recovery.

I'm not talking about stuffing feelings or medicating feelings with alcohol or otherwise trying to kill them.

They need to be felt, acknowledged and validated in order to heal.

The analyzer that shuts off or medicates emotions doesn't get those warm, inviting and healing emotions any more than he/she feels the cold sick feelings of betrayal.

We need to learn how to "process" those feelings. I love the 4th step inventory work because it is a safe way to walk through the landmines and trauma rooms of our past and deal with which part is self inflicted, which part is other inflicted; which parts have I need of seeking forgiveness (amends) and which parts to I need to unconditionally forgive and move on?

But in the first wisps of cold morning light after a night of pain (d-day), we must first triage ourselves and take methodical and planned actions based on our overall plan and goal, rather than impulsive rage, defensiveness, or pain.

The treatment of healing is not comfortable. Ask any soldier wounded in battle. Getting wounded was only the beginning. Not the end.

Magnificent, madame Andy.

Bumping for our new group of Plan B-ers!

Bumping an awesome thread!

Bumping for Teaser and others. Join in some positive support and let's help another group of Plan B-ers survive and thrive!

Thanks Kayla(I love that name)

Bumping for Mehr

Bumping for 2Sweet

I've been thinking about the players who hurt their spouses over and over and over again.

Then they come here and think that they can play us too. People like Pep, Mel, MaritalBliss, Scotland (the Anointed Plan B Queen!) Princessmeggy, Lexxy, Neak, and many others from times past who's wisdom remains - they think they're going to fool those who were fooled just one too many times? Ain't fooling with us again.

We see through the playah who doesn't answer questions, who's wife has disappeared, who presumes to speak for his wife who ain't talking.

We see through the wayward STBX who comes and gloats that now the betrayed has started dating...

THIS is why there's a Plan B. The crazy Playah or the gloating wayward. Be GONE with all of them. Plan B does that.

The insanity of infidelity becomes a non-issue in Plan B. I am encouraged whenever a man or a woman says "I'm worth more than the trauma and drama of a lying cheating snake-in-the-grass is bringing into my life."

The nature of human behavior is that someone does not move from arrogant, prideful, deceitful cruelty to charming compliant and marriage material overnight. Not while taking potshots at the help.

Having been a student of human nature for most of my life, if I have learned only one thing it is that people can only behave in congruence with their underlying beliefs of service, or entitlement.

Please, betrayed spouses, recognize that this one truth bears repeating.

Plan B will allow time for the demons to be truly expelled from a wayward who desires to retain a relationship with you. Plan B lets them scream, rant, rave, to the silent unlistening walls. Let their pride crumble at your unyielding Plan B remoteness. If they have the heart to recover.

Plan B removes you from caring. You are rebuilding your sanity. Your life moves on a separate track, developing the ability to think clear of the poison - the sweet and the bitter both. You will be able to make decisions for your future, based on your own best interests and those interests and needs of your children. You will find the ability to laugh again.

That is the promise of Plan B.

That is why so many experienced people here recommend it. I hope you understand why it is such a vital and necessary step, if not to recover your marriage, to recover your own soul.

This whole post screams the truth at me KA. But this particularly stands out...

Some days I hate Plan B. I have not found it easy, I know no-one does although many are better at recovering than others. Even though I find Plan B difficult, I look at where I was before it and know where I would be without it... and where I am right now is a much better place. A friend told me on the weekend that without Plan B I would be in hospital. I think she is likely right.

And I can laugh again. Actually, I can debate again, as a family friend pointed out recently, that is something he had missed about me!

Thanks for encouraging and reminding us Plan B'ers of our commitment to recovering not only our marriages, but more importantly, our commitment to recovering ourselves.

Bump.

LTL

Another good one LTL, thanks for bumping. Caracal, as well, is an inspiring plan B'er.

No problem RQ.

When i read an oldie, but goodie, i figure others can soak up the tactics too.

I plucked this link out of Scotty's thread.

I am up to page 240 on that one now. Only 153 more pages to go. Whew!!!

LTL

I would like to find Mimi's and Queenies threads next, since they were referenced so many times in Scotty's thread.

LTL

Whew, I couldn't find this thread for a minute!

Here's Queenies' Queenie survives an affair