Hi! I came across this new 8 year study done by a Harvard Lady named Shanti Feldmen and wondered if others had heard of her research, or have seen this. What do yall think?

Marriage Study

It clearly states that divorce rate was never 50% ever and Divorce rates are going down.
That those in the church do have much much lower rates of divorce.

Well, like any study I'd need to see the methodology. It's a surprisingly difficult thing to find a solid number on, although at first glance it seems like it should be easy!

Here are some of her numbers: Data Table PDF

However the data seems contradictory to me or I'm not reading it correctly.

Total women surveyed: 123,272,000
Total of those that are married: 89,742,000

Still married to first spouse: 70.6%
Still married to second spouse: 65.3%
Still married to 3rd or more spouse: 59.4%

^^ I don't see how those percentages can coexist?

You should write to Dr Harley on the radio show and ask them about it. I love to hear them discuss things like this.

^^^^ me as well.

'

Maybe it's:

Of those women that married once - 70.6% remain married to their first husband
Of those women that married twice - 65.3% remain with their second husband

Of those women that married 3 (or more) times - 59.4% remain with that spouse.


That still looks like odd figures.

Perhaps it's basically saying:

1st marriages have a 30% divorce rate
2nd marriages have a 35% divorce rate
3rd and beyond have a 40% divorce rate

[actually I just linked and looked at this actual chart and those means (averages) don't really say much at all since the entire chart includes those single by divorce OR death of a spouse so over time it's going to average out the 2nd and 3rd marriages and make them seem just as successful while actually increasing the chances of divorce/death in first marriage. Basically it's a married versus single analysis at a single point in time. I think the 30.8% figure of "ever been divorced" is the best indicator that divorce isn't as prevalent as conventional wisdom tell us.]


I personally don't like hearing statistics because I'm ADD and I know my mind goes off on a tangent and down the rabbit hole about the realities of statistics and whether the number I've just been presented with is realistic, plausible or is it agenda laden, etc.

I know Dr. Harley likes to use the following statistics.

40% of marriages end in divorce (and little higher than the 30.8% number above).
20% of marriages end in permanent lifelong separation. They are still legally married but they hate each other and live away from each other and die away from each other.
20% of marriages stay legally married but are miserable and generally unhappy.

Only 20% of marriages stay together and are happy thus, only 20% of marriages are truly successful.

Now this study comes along and claims/states/presents findings that 4/5 are "happy". That's a big discrepancy. But that 4/5 are active and engaged participating Christian couples doesn't surprise me. I can certainly get on board with them being "happier" and more satisfied with marriage in general but a statistical jump from 20% to 80% seems a bit too rich for me not to be skeptical. How did they measure "happiness" and what "happiness" index did they use? I'm guessing they just asked people to characterize their "happiness" on a scale of 1-5 or 1-10 versus really measuring their relational happiness and satisfaction over time.

Always view statistics with a healthy dose of skepticism. The oft-quoted 50% divorce rate was arrived at by dividing the number of new marriages in a given year by the number of divorces and creating a ratio. The faulty methodology was in disregarding the marriages from previous years that did not end in divorce. When you factor those in, the picture changes dramatically.

My $.02 on the "happiness" discussed in this study versus what we consider "happy" according to MB...

MOST married couples I've been around and even a majority of the marriage literature I've encountered considers the "romantic love" MB focuses on building to be a temporary honeymoon period that happens at the beginning of the marriage. A lot of the marriage books I've seen even tell people to settle for less after the first few years of the marriage because it's inevitable that the emotions will wear off. Most of these programs/books focus on "agape" or "unselfish companionship" as the ideal couples should be looking for rather than building romance.

So I think there are quite a few married couples out there who are at least making it work well enough that the marriage stays intact, but probably have no idea what they are missing out on that an MB marriage would provide.

Kind of off the thread topic, but I've encountered that from some people in "real life". They basically believe in loving their spouses in the same way that they love their children. They just can't see the difference at all.

I've been thinking about this comment as well. In the sense that we say around here all the time that the infidelity rate is basically the same in and out of the church.

Hope I didn't beat you to it Elaina but I emailed Dr Harley about this. I really hope they consider it as a topic of discussion on the radio show.

Or people in affairs leave the church.

I dont mind at all so I am glad you did. She wrote a book with all the stats & it def has me curious.

She covered that by looking at those who for the past year for example were in church. If they did start an affair & divorce.... And leave church after- it would have shown up in the stats.
If they left church for a year or more & then had affair etc they would not have counted as an "active" member of church.
(This is what I understand it to say)

I know she was just asking people how happy were they. Are we suppose to not believe them when they say -yes we are happy?

I asked all the ladies in my home school group.... And all but one said out of 1-5 how happy were they: 4 out of 5. One lady told me 5 out of 5 ..... Not one said unhappy.

Should we not believe them? If they aren't living MB lives: but think they are happy... I will let them be happy!!!
So I know my little test doesn't count for anything but I was curious and surprised....

It was an interesting read & it is not that I don't believe Dr H.... Just wondered since this is new methodology etc. I do wish that these stats were true!

She would need 2 years toreally catchthe divorce and affairs data though. It takesmore than a year in most of the country.

I'd say there is also a lot of peer pressure for religious people to "forgive and forget". There is also a heavy emphasis on unconditional love that seems to get applied to most every type of relationship. Dr Harley talks about this quite a bit.

I wrote to Dr Harley once about about his views on religious based advice. I thought his distinction between "Christian" and "religious" was an interesting discussion. Made me think.

Did he respond on the radio or in am email to you? Do you mind sharing?

Not yet. But I'll share if I hear back. I did hear them say yesterday or maybe the day before that they had a big backlog of emails to go through so maybe it just hasn't been gotten to yet.

Or maybe the topic isn't interesting enough

Oh I just realized you meant the previous letter. Yes they discussed it on the show. I found it very interesting. You even posted the link to it for me BrainHurts!

Apples: go read the links. She took 7 years to compile and looked at more than just one year..... It was 10+......
I think choosing to say if people stop being active in a church for a year or more that its ok for her not to count them in the active in church group.

And Fight: i agree on the religious vs christian and emphasis on forgiving /forgetting etc.
It does seem to make many of them stay together more when they shouldn't.... Its the happy part of her equations that has me the most stumped.

I'll have to read the book. None of what I found describes her research methodology- how was happiness defined, where did the data set originate, was it anonymous, etc.

That's what I would question. I know so many couples where "happiness" simply means "not divorced."

Frankly, this sort of data is ALWAYS very open to interpretation.

I clearly recall thinking that we were very happy, when, we were actually living mostly independently of each other, and I wasn't attracted in the least to my husband. We had fun together at times, but we mostly spent time apart, and I liked it that way just fine. I was happy having my own life and yet married. We were more like room mates and business partners than an integrated married couple in love with each other. It still amazes both of us that we were fine being separated for long periods of time and how stupid and short-sighted we were for allowing that kind of independent lifestyle.