Okay I'm like 6 months behind the rest of the world bc I didn't hear about this until today when they announced that her trial date had been set. And, if anybody else is as far behind as I am, Mrs. Harris suspected/found out that her husband was having an affair with a former co-worker and a week later caught him and the OW at a hotel, got in a fight with the OW, then ran over Mr. Harris 3 times in the parking lot, killing him dead. His 16yo daughter (her SD) was in the car with her when she did it.
I was just wondering how other BSs feel about this. Personally, I don't think that she had any right to kill him any more than he had the right to have an A, but (big but here) I also feel that she should not be given the maximum sentence. I don't think most WSs will ever comprehend what the A does to the mental state of their BS. I've been through domestic violence (with xH) and being a BS, and one was just as bad as the other for me. There's a battered wife defense, there should also be a BETRAYED wife defense (or betrayed husband). I think that what she did was clearly wrong (duh) but I also hope that there are a couple BSs on the jury.
As far as the deceased's daughter bring in the car, I think THAT is unforgivable, and there should be a felony charge for that (I don't know if there is or not). Maybe "willfully causing extreme irreparable emotional harm to a minor"? Ouhtta be a law...
Oh yeah, a few things about the upcoming trial that I found interesting--
State District Judge Carol Davies has ruled that the acts of David Harris cannot be presented in "an effort to establish his bad or questionable character."
I don't even know what to say about this one.
The judge also disallowed any mention that David Harris' family "desires an acquittal, conviction on a lesser offense, a probated sentence or minimal incarceration" for Clara Harris.
The judge said Parnham can tell jurors about Clara Harris' actions in the week leading up to her husband's death, including her decision to schedule breast augmentation surgery and hire a personal trainer in an attempt to improve her appearance for her husband
Sounds like a version of Plan A to me.
So what does everybody else think?
Do I think she should have killed him? No.
Do I understand the rage? Yes. Anger + pain + fear = rage.
It's too bad there is no temporary insanity defense in Texas. She'll probably get life, if she's lucky.
And how ridiculous that "the acts of David Harris cannot be introduced into evidence." So, the jury is just supposed to believe she killed him for no reason? Just because she's evil and had nothing better to do that evening?
<small>[ January 21, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: TheCalypso ]</small>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TheCalypso:
<strong>Wow... I'm completely behind the times, because I haven't heard anything about this until you mentioned it. Well, I guess it wouldn't be considered premeditated... what charge are they going after, do you know? Bottom line, she's guilty of whatever type of murder conviction they are going for and she's going to have to pay the piper. I know people snap, and it's obvious that she did, but we're all responsible for our actions. Vigilante justice is not the answer. If someone has an affair and you can't stand it, you divorce them, not kill them. And the child.. this is going to haunt her for the rest of her life! It makes me insane when people don't have the wherewithall to understand the damage that they're doing to their kids. That poor girl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Surely they'll plead temporary insanity. Has anyone heard what the wife says now?
By the by, I think it's actually rather upstanding of his family to stand by her the way that they are.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
She claims it was an accident (and jmo, maybe that's how she sees it). However, she had hired a PI to investigate her H--PI was there and VIDEOTAPED it.
From what I read, prosecutors are going for life in prison and I think they are trying to say it was premeditated. I don't think it was. I mean, really, if you were intentionally going somewhere to kill you husband, would you take your 16yo SD and do it in front of a videocamera?? I'm speculating that she knew the PI was there & taping--that's probably how she found out where WH was.
<small>[ February 05, 2003, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: TheCalypso ]</small>
<strong> State District Judge Carol Davies has ruled that the acts of David Harris cannot be presented in "an effort to establish his bad or questionable character." </strong>
In legaleese this is on the same level as crucifying a rape victim. It just means that Mr. Harris' affair or possibly affairs can not be used as a means to turn him from a victim to a defendant. Obviously the affair that he was involved in will come into evidence but the defense can't use it to show the type of person he was.
Mrs. Harris, although the victim of an affair, did commit a felony and I agree that it's a shame that Texas doesn't allow some kind of diminished capacity defense. Maybe all you Texans should write your law makers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
<small>[ January 22, 2003, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: MJ-OH ]</small>
Um, I had heard under Texas law you have to kill both parties to be exonerated?
I do not agree she should get the max sentence. I believe in temporary insanity and I know how it can play the mind. I think she acted out of such pain she literally lost it during that time.
And I hope the jury takes all this into consideration! Only thing I can say is too bad she didnt' get them both! Maybe she would have a better chance at saving her freedom.
The worst part is the two in the A drug her down into sin with them. That is sad and she has to answer to God for that one. Perhaps she can repent in her heart and save her soul.
But I understand exactly how she felt at the time. We're all capable of it if you think about your feelings when finding out.
"Hell hath no fury..........."
Continuing MJ-OH's thought,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">State District Judge Carol Davies has ruled that the acts of David Harris cannot be presented in "an effort to establish his bad or questionable character." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could be that this does not prohibit introducing evidence about the affair in an effort to establish the state of mind or whatever of Ms. Harris.
I've heard the myth that a betrayed spouse has been exonerated for murdering BOTH infidels caught in the act. Who knows for sure, though?
Recently, in Baltimore, Maryland US, a man was acquited for shooting a priest who he was able to show committed some form of pedophilia to him many years ago as a child. He admitted to shooting the priest, who survived the shooting, and the priest positively identified his attacker. Apparently the jury took matters into their own hands. I am remembering this from a newscast and I may not have all the details.
Clearly, even the most scorned BSs do not condone murder - or there'd be PLENTY more of them.
Clara did a half a** job when she missed the OW! She should go to jail for that alone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Seriously though, I am horrified that she murdered the man with his own daughter in the car. This poor girl will be traumatized for life. I think Clara should be convicted of murder. Adultery does NOT justify murder under ANY circumstances.
What about self defense? Isn't that really what it is?
He was trying to kill her heart and their M so, instead, she got to him first.
After going through this twice, I can honestly say that at THE MOMENT of finding out your emotions can run either way - killing or not killing. And if you were to actually FIND them.... and have the OPPORTUNITY (He was outside = should have stayed inside!)
hmmm...well I don't believe she knew she was going to be able to run him down in her car...as who could have foreseen that...however, I do think she knew she was going to attempt something deadly if the chance arose. And once hit...she continued on and ran over him two more times...this takes more then a moment of insane rage. jmho
She already KNEW that her H was cheating...as she found out from the PI she had hired, so while driving there she did have time to think...even if whatever she was thinking wasn't what she should have been thinking. She had foreknowledge or at least the suspicion of betrayal...or she wouldn't have hired the PI in the first place. This was NOT a case of walking in on "the act" with no forethought and being blindsided.
She also already knew that he had cheated in the past on his xW...as she had been his OW at the time. Therefore, it shouldn't have been such a shocking revalation that he was a betrayer.
While I can understand the rage which can be overwhelming...I don't see it in this case. I also understand that this man wasn't the type of man that endears oneself to others...I just can't justify her actions. He was NOT a nice man...but I don't see her as a victim either.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>Clara did a half a** job when she missed the OW! She should go to jail for that alone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ya know, Mel, I almost said something like that in my response, but I remembered Bandit's thread back in Dec. (?) in which I made a similar quip about his W's OM who had died and a bunch of folks took it WAY too seriously. (I asked him how he got away with it.) So, stand by!
I can understand her "feelings"... a co-worker told me that my FWW was "fooling around" with an OM... I was in the miltary and away from home for training... Got permission to come home early but had enough forsight to ask my brother to come home with me and take my gun away BEFORE I went in the house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Murdering the OP isn't the answer... especially with her SD in the car with her!
Before I found out about my WH A and OC I would have said that killing him was a bit extreme. HOWEVER, after getting a phone call work telling me that my friends daughter was also my H daughter was the most painful and scary moment in my life. When I went to my WH work to confront him I KNOW that if it wasn't for my the thought of never seeing my son again I WOULD have ran him over and her too if I saw her. The emotions running through my body were truely uncontrolable and I can't imagine what I would have done if I had seen the OW that day too. I hit my WH several times and drove off, thought about crashing my car into his truck but didn't. I don't think ANYONE can understand what a BS goes through, especially if there was no sign of an A going on to begin with. I think there should be a Betrayed spouse defense just like a battered defense. I hope she gets miminal sentences and that the SD in the car gets some counseling.
TEXAS .... same folks who convicted an obviously psychotic mother who drowned her 5 kids in the bathtub....
Clara Harris is toast.
Don't usually post on this forum but this topic is just too interesting for the girl detective in me.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She also already knew that he had cheated in the past on his xW...as she had been his OW at the time. Therefore, it shouldn't have been such a shocking revalation that he was a betrayer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">jaw... I think it is just the opposite. I hadn't realized Clara was the OW prior to becoming the 2nd Mrs. Harris, but if true, this makes more sense. She was "special" whereas the first Mrs. H. was not. So her anger stems not only from being "betrayed," but also from not being as special as she thought she was.
This is typical OW arrogance, that they can get involved with a cheater who will then be faithful to them. So, now she was the aging W. and H. took up with someone even more "special."
Again, I had not read that Clara was the OW that broke up the first M., but if true it would make more sense why she went off the deep end. While many BS's may fantasize about killing their WS's, most of us don't run them over with our cars or their would be dead bodies strewn all over the nation's parking lots.
And didn't she "accidentally" run him over 3 times? ANd then hold him as he died begging him to "breathe" and "live"!
Yes, it was all a crazy mistake. Just like some WS's mistakenly fall in love while they'e still married.
All you have to do is say "I'm just human" and that seems to satisfy many people.
One of the legal experts in Texas said that he didn't think there would be much sympathy for Clara since people these days are tolerant of infidelity. (He's probably right... Rudy G. was named Time magazine's Man of the Year and Julia Roberts is still "America's Sweetheart.")
So, maybe as the murder rate rises, people will shrug off killing people as just another human failing.
I acutally think they may be kind of linient. There are 9 women on the jury.
<<<I hadn't realized Clara was the OW prior to becoming the 2nd Mrs. Harris, but if true, this makes more sense.>>>
I didn't know this either. Well, well. Sure is different when the shoe's on the other foot, isn't it, Clara?
<small>[ January 24, 2003, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: psycho_b ]</small>
This case reminds me a little of the Betty Broderick case in San Diego, the woman who was tormented by her XH and his new trophy wife. She wound up killing them both in their bed.
It shows the rage and anger that betrayal can ignite, and while most of us don't act on it... we have almost all felt it!
I think that's why it bugs me when society just winks or looks the other way at politicians and starlets who flaunt their infidelity, like it's some kind of national sport. Infidelity is not a victimless crime... innocent husbands, wives, and children have their lives shattered every day.
I do feel sorry for Clara's SD... she saw her dad cheat on two wives, and then watched him get brutally murdered. The real mystery (and tragedy) is why self-absorbed men like David Harris even bother to get married and have children.
I'm sorry, but my W had 4 different A's. I went through all the emotions, rage, betrayel, depression. I remember the rage being the most powerful. Couple it with depression, it becomes very powerful. But, murder is murder. Sorry folks, I've never bought into the "crime of passion" theory. She made a DECISION to run him over, 3 TIMES!!! With his daughter in the car. Life in prison sounds good to me.
BTW, I'm not a huge supporter of the death penalty, that's His job, but the woman that drowned her five children, I say FRY. JMVHO
I have little to say , and the little will get me in trouble but here goes.
If she was the OW in first marriage then life or dath penalty sounds good to ME !!!!!! U PLAY U PAY
AND him the same !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anger , rage , Depression POWERFUL SOUP
HELL HAVE NO FURY LIKE A WOMAN SCORNED!!!!!!!!!!
Um, well when I read all these post, I just learned Clara was the OW before!That definitely puts a new angle on my thinking. Perhaps this is true justice for her and him? What about the OW now? yep, she should have nailed them both. Then all 3 would be out of society.
There was once an atty here caught by his wife, with the OW on their couch in her home. She killed OW but let him live. His law buddies defended her and she got two years in psych ward. That's it!
If Clara had premeditated this, why not take a gun? It doesn't seem premeditation to me, but an act that just came from pure rage and hurt. It seems if she was planning to do something in the way of harming, she'd have had a weapon besides car. There was no guarantee he'd get outside where she could use the car.If I were on the jury, this would be my analysis. Not premeditated. Act of rage and loss of sanity for the interim.
It will be interesting to see the outcome.
I din't know until a few days ago that she was the OW in her H's 1st marriage--kinda think maybe his newest A shouldn't have been so unexpected (if that sounds right). Hmmmm, I think that I just unknowingly said that cheating once predisposes you to cheating again. Hmmm...
Another thing I was wondering about--
There are 9 women on the jury. That in itself surprised me--I figured there would be more men, or at least more evenly split. I wonder how many of the jurors have been BSs? or OPs?
Although I have little sympathy for any OW, including Clara, I understand she entered the hotel and caught H and OW coming out of the elavator. An argument ensued, and the H who was a black belt, slammed her to the lobby floor, in front of the manager and OW screaming at her the marriage was over, he was in love with OW.
I say both got what they deserve, should have used the second and third pass for the new OW though.
HEY - LOU LOU careful what you post you had me thinking way to long about pysco ward for only 2yrs. WOW I can live through that I made 2 yrs with this psyco H of mine LOL.
I just heard that this took place in the parking lot of the Nassau Bay Hilton. I've stayed there many times over the years when I'm visiting Baja Oklahoma on business, and I am familiar with their parking lot. ...circling around 3 times in THAT parking lot would HAVE to be premeditated!
Couldn't resist posting this link:Clara Harris
Here's the link to further follow this case:http://www.click2houston.com/hou/news/stories/news-194618320030130-120139.html
Apparently, David Harris told Clara the morning of the murder that he was leaving Gail Bridges and recover his marriage. We have all heard the lies of the WS that the A is over only to discover it isn't. My WH mailed a bogus NC letter to OW just to appease me. Yeah, I felt rage when I discovered that.
Also, the hotel was the same hotel Clara and David had exchanged wedding vows a decade earlier...
Clara's in-laws are supportive of her and the father-in-law said he attends church with her weekly. So what does this mean?
It's just very sad all around and no one wins! I think I could have commited murder if I was in that same situation. She was publicly humiliated by her husband and OW.Speaking of Gail Bridges, OW
I do believe that what comes around goes around (since Clara was once the OW), but why would she feel any different now that she is the BS?
I don't want her to get away with this totally, but I do think there should be some compassion!
The state rested today... I'm interested in the defense actions!
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
<small>[ January 31, 2003, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</small>
<<<I just heard that this took place in the parking lot of the Nassau Bay Hilton. I've stayed there many times over the years when I'm visiting Baja Oklahoma on business, and I am familiar with their parking lot. ...circling around 3 times in THAT parking lot would HAVE to be premeditated!>>>
Q - the tape shows her driving very fast in a very small circle in a corner of the lot. She was not circling the building.
I meant that circling in that parking lot is rather difficult, especially in a big SPUTE.
I used to hate trying to find a parking place there. Haven't stayed there in a number of years. Last time I did, it had been showing it's age. Almost as bad as the Ramada down the street...
3isacrowd.LOL NO NO. You and I probably wouldn't be that lucky!
Even though our state has a justifiable homicide law, I figure I'd be the one they'd change it on just before sentencing. LOL
But 2 yrs isn't hard to do for the payback I guess. It's just we have to answer to a higher authority.
Sometimes the best revenge is letting them live and see how many weeds their new garden grows.
God is a just judge! But it sure is hard to wait on his timing at times.
As for Clara, I can see where she may have temporary insanity plea. An A can do terrible things to the mind. But then she knew she had hurt someone else so justice be served here. I will leave it in the hands of the jury.
Mostly women? Wonder how may are BS's or WS's?
I suppose attys will ask that ? for sure before allowing them all up there? Or have they already done that? Chosen the final 12 I mean?
God bless, LouLou
About the Clara Harris case, I read in the Houston Chronicle that the SD said that her father had told Clara that he would meet with the OW at a resaurant and end the A. The night they were supposed to be there, Clara went to the restaurant and they were not there. Then someone called her and said they were at the hotel. She then goes to the hotel and SD calls her dad to say that one of their twin boys is sick and he needed to come home (to get him away from OW and out of hotel). Then Clara calls and says the same. They both, WH and OW come down together and that is when she confronts them. Clara was, according to SD, under the notion that they were breaking up. So, when the fight in lobby gets ugly, then he leaves with OW, hand in hand to their car in the parking lot, Clara loses it.
I don't know. I can totally empathize with her rage and pain. She was under the impression that they were ending it. I think she felt double betrayed.
As far as Clara being OW, I have not read anything about this. Where did you read this? Is it a fact, or are we speculating on this?
I am just glad I did not catch my FWH and OW. I cannot vouch for how I would have handled it. Emotions can just overwhelm you. IMHO, anyway.