Pseudo Husband not willing? - 05/18/13 03:05 PM
Hello. New member here, looking for some perspective.
17 years ago I was a young woman straight from an abusive childhood with a dysfunctional family and I met a 25 year old man in roughly the same situation. Our own relationship was the best we could make of it with the situations that both of us came out of with a lot of screaming fights and even some physical altercations in the first few years. We moved in together after only a couple of weeks of dating(dates that lasted 12 hours or more), mostly due to my own living situation, and have never been married although I do have an engagement ring and at one point we bought the bands and did an at home exchange of "with this ring I thee wed" with no vows, which he views as our wedding and I view as not our wedding(with other unfavorable implications added when I am feeling bad, unfortunately). I have been asking him to do a ceremony for the last 2 years and he has agreed, but only when we have the money to do it and he won't set a date. About 13 years ago his mother married his stepfather after they had been common law partners for 20 years. At that time he said to me, "Don't worry, I won't make you wait 20 years to marry you." We have had disagreements over whether we are actually married or not.
Over the years both of us have had important needs go unmet for long periods. Recognizing a few years ago the need for us to do something to improve our relationship, I've talked to him about it numerous times, looked over various programs with him, gotten his commitment to try multiple times. Since I've been reading this site, I've made changes to the way that I approach things, recognizing that my approach has often caused an argument where there wasn't one. I've asked him to do the EN Questionnaire and he assured me multiple times that he would, even asking me why I kept asking if he was going to do it. I was honest and said because I didn't think he was going to do it, as there have been numerous examples in the past of him assuring me he would do something, only to later refuse to do it. He assured me again that he would, and then a week later told me that he would not because it was stupid and a waste of time.
His assertion is and has been for more than 10 years that our marriage would be better if we had more money(ignoring the whole time that our relationship has been getting steadily worse while he has been making steadily more). He is extremely resistant to me doing anything to earn money other than what he wants me to do, which is work on the businesses that he's been building over the years while I do everything(except about 50% of the cooking) associated with the house and our 5 children. When I mention doing something else that I am interested in, he gives me reasons that I will not be successful or openly doubts using voice tones that I have thought it through completely(said in very doubtful tone "It seems like it would work. Have you thought about who's going to care for the kids while you're doing this?), even when I have spoken of getting a job(after all, who's going to hire a woman who's been a sahm for the last 13 years?) I am not interested in the businesses, I actually hate them because he works a MINIMUM of 14 hours a day on them, 7 days a week, and tells me there's not a moment to spare to do anything else, even take care of his own health, which actually bothers me at least as much as our poor relationship. I tried to work on the businesses, hoping it would help and all it did was double my workload. He didn't offer to help in any other area of our lives and it didn't bring in the extra money he was hoping it would. What it did do was give him grounds to say "See how hard my job is? You couldn't handle it!" when I told him that I could no longer do the work because I had too much to handle with that and the kids(who I homeschool at his request by myself - he has said many, many times that he would give them some of their subjects and then never followed through) and the house(which I clean and keep stocked with the brands he loves at the cheapest I can get them through hours of couponing each week).
When I tell him I feel like he is being selfish, he says that I should provide specific examples of what I am talking about and when I provide one, he shoots it down as not being selfish and asks for more examples which he will then systematically discredit and use to make me feel as if I am the one who is at fault. If I cannot provide immediate examples I am told that since I cannot provide the example I must be either blowing something out of proportion or seeing something that is not there. This was also a favorite tactic of my mother's and I have usually responded by ending the conversation and leaving feeling as if I cannot trust myself. After a couple of years of therapy I have learned to trust myself again and understand that this is a tactic I must refuse to be used against me. So I tell him that I don't have to provide specific examples for his behaviors that cause me pain, I am giving one to demonstrate what behavior is causing the pain, but even then he will pick apart the example and ignore the pain.
It seems like he doesn't want to tackle the big issues in our relationship, although when asked he says he does. About 18 months ago I convinced him to go out with me once a week for a "date night" although he said if we called it that, he wouldn't go because it was too cheesy. Our relationship improved quite a bit with only this small amount of UA and I was feeling a lot better about our relationship. I have been on the verge of leaving quite a few times and have talked it over with him, which is how we ended up with the date night, but now he claims that even that amount of time is too much and 15 hours a week is completely out of the question.
I hit my sexual peak about 3 years ago and have been like a horny teenager ever since. Much to my dismay, it would seem his horny teen years are far behind him and he's more than happy to wait weeks to have sex, then say things like "You don't want to have sex" to me, joking, or "you don't give me enough sex", serious. I want to scream at him that it's all I've been thinking about, there is nothing I want more!, throw him on the floor and take what I want, but I know it's not right. I have never been one for masturbation, it's never worked out for me when I've tried it(too much childhood shame beaten into me I guess) my only ethical source of SF is him. I've tried talking to him about it, but he says if he doesn't want to have sex, he shouldn't have to have sex which I agree with, but leaves me in the lurch. I'm actually here today because over the last few days I've started fantasizing about having sex with other men, something that's never happened in our relationship before and it scares me to think about what it means for our relationship.
Things did seem to be getting somewhat better with the date night and everything, then last summer we got into a boat accident in which I nearly died. As we recovered, our accident seemed to make us closer, but then he shattered his ankle one night while we were out, about a month after the boat accident. Of course I had to take care of him, giving and giving and giving with little or no return for months, which is part of the commitment of a life together and I haven't felt resentment about it until recently when he's been withdrawing from me for not providing the same level of care I was providing in the months immediately after the accident. I am exhausted, the bank is empty and the outrageously large loans on that account are coming due, which he cannot or will not understand. Then came Hurricane Sandy which destroyed our home and forced us to look for a new one, which turned out to be extremely badly misrepresented so now we have to move again. It's a lot of stress at once, but we've handled worse so I know we could make it through this as well if our relationship were better.
Our biggest issue of all though, in my opinion is our communication. He says he feels like he shouldn't have to talk over every little thing with me. When I try to discuss how he handles our family finances he shuts down and tells me that he's not in charge of the finances and he just needs to make more money. I tell him this scares me because I trust him to be in control of our family finances and I personally know that he makes more than $100,000 per year. This should be enough for a family of 7 to live on decently, if not comfortably, even in NJ where we live, but there are times when we are so low on food that I have to run to the store just to have something for dinner. He says I have access to all of our accounts so I know where the money is going and the only time I bring it up is when we don't have any(which is not true, but it's what he chooses to remember). I try to explain to him that we don't ever have to have a time when we don't have any if we budget properly, but he refuses to even look at any budget plan or ideas and makes many arguments against a budget plan.
I think our second largest issue is his control issue. He seems to feel the need to control everyone around him as much as possible. I can have friends, but every time I did he talked so badly about them that I have given up trying to have any, compounding my loneliness. When I bring up the fact that he doesn't allow me to have friends he says I can have all the friends I want, no one is stopping me. When I mention the terrible things he's said about the women I've tried to befriend(I could never say I had a male friend, Whew! You'd see fireworks then!) he says those things are true and I need to pick better people to associate with. When I say I have no one to talk to besides him, he says he's in the same boat, then picks up his phone and calls at least 2-3 people to discuss what he wants to discuss. I literally have not one single adult in my life I can pick up the phone and talk to about anything and I have worked very hard not to talk about any of this with my kids, who also have no friends. He seems to believe everyone we want to hang out with is a bad influence while his associates are perfectly fine(I happen to know at least 3 of them are serial cheaters). When I wanted to become healthier I started to change my diet and he started making his own food and the kids of course wanted the foods we were eating(which he is cooking), not the healthier fare I was now providing. We're still having issues over that as he claims I'm trying to control him and what he eats. He wants me to massage his ankle, shoulder, etc every day while never offering to massage anything for me. If I refuse, no matter the reason(like I've been doing it every day for a week and I'm tired) he withdraws. His most effective weapon against me is his full withdrawal which he's been using against me for years. Half the time it's something I've done(no matter how trivial, it can trigger weeks of withdrawal), the other half I have no idea what's going on. He just withdraws for days, sometimes weeks and I'm left in the cold to guess what's going on. My response in the past has been to pour more effort into getting him to come back to me, but the well of effort that used to be there ran dry about 2 years ago and now when he withdraws I just withdraw myself and wait for him to come out of it. I know this is not a great response but it's the only one I've got for being ignored when I'm trying so hard. I've literally done every single thing I can think of, put so much effort into understanding him and his needs and meeting them, changed myself so much to be everything he wanted and needed from me and yet, here we are. He is full on against doing any program. He thinks we don't need anyone but us to solve our problems.
I think I'm coming to the end of the line. I don't want to end the relationship because I am concerned about how it will affect the children, but I also do not want them to think that this is how marriage is supposed to be. Please give me your perspective on this. I really need some outside looking in type of advice.
17 years ago I was a young woman straight from an abusive childhood with a dysfunctional family and I met a 25 year old man in roughly the same situation. Our own relationship was the best we could make of it with the situations that both of us came out of with a lot of screaming fights and even some physical altercations in the first few years. We moved in together after only a couple of weeks of dating(dates that lasted 12 hours or more), mostly due to my own living situation, and have never been married although I do have an engagement ring and at one point we bought the bands and did an at home exchange of "with this ring I thee wed" with no vows, which he views as our wedding and I view as not our wedding(with other unfavorable implications added when I am feeling bad, unfortunately). I have been asking him to do a ceremony for the last 2 years and he has agreed, but only when we have the money to do it and he won't set a date. About 13 years ago his mother married his stepfather after they had been common law partners for 20 years. At that time he said to me, "Don't worry, I won't make you wait 20 years to marry you." We have had disagreements over whether we are actually married or not.
Over the years both of us have had important needs go unmet for long periods. Recognizing a few years ago the need for us to do something to improve our relationship, I've talked to him about it numerous times, looked over various programs with him, gotten his commitment to try multiple times. Since I've been reading this site, I've made changes to the way that I approach things, recognizing that my approach has often caused an argument where there wasn't one. I've asked him to do the EN Questionnaire and he assured me multiple times that he would, even asking me why I kept asking if he was going to do it. I was honest and said because I didn't think he was going to do it, as there have been numerous examples in the past of him assuring me he would do something, only to later refuse to do it. He assured me again that he would, and then a week later told me that he would not because it was stupid and a waste of time.
His assertion is and has been for more than 10 years that our marriage would be better if we had more money(ignoring the whole time that our relationship has been getting steadily worse while he has been making steadily more). He is extremely resistant to me doing anything to earn money other than what he wants me to do, which is work on the businesses that he's been building over the years while I do everything(except about 50% of the cooking) associated with the house and our 5 children. When I mention doing something else that I am interested in, he gives me reasons that I will not be successful or openly doubts using voice tones that I have thought it through completely(said in very doubtful tone "It seems like it would work. Have you thought about who's going to care for the kids while you're doing this?), even when I have spoken of getting a job(after all, who's going to hire a woman who's been a sahm for the last 13 years?) I am not interested in the businesses, I actually hate them because he works a MINIMUM of 14 hours a day on them, 7 days a week, and tells me there's not a moment to spare to do anything else, even take care of his own health, which actually bothers me at least as much as our poor relationship. I tried to work on the businesses, hoping it would help and all it did was double my workload. He didn't offer to help in any other area of our lives and it didn't bring in the extra money he was hoping it would. What it did do was give him grounds to say "See how hard my job is? You couldn't handle it!" when I told him that I could no longer do the work because I had too much to handle with that and the kids(who I homeschool at his request by myself - he has said many, many times that he would give them some of their subjects and then never followed through) and the house(which I clean and keep stocked with the brands he loves at the cheapest I can get them through hours of couponing each week).
When I tell him I feel like he is being selfish, he says that I should provide specific examples of what I am talking about and when I provide one, he shoots it down as not being selfish and asks for more examples which he will then systematically discredit and use to make me feel as if I am the one who is at fault. If I cannot provide immediate examples I am told that since I cannot provide the example I must be either blowing something out of proportion or seeing something that is not there. This was also a favorite tactic of my mother's and I have usually responded by ending the conversation and leaving feeling as if I cannot trust myself. After a couple of years of therapy I have learned to trust myself again and understand that this is a tactic I must refuse to be used against me. So I tell him that I don't have to provide specific examples for his behaviors that cause me pain, I am giving one to demonstrate what behavior is causing the pain, but even then he will pick apart the example and ignore the pain.
It seems like he doesn't want to tackle the big issues in our relationship, although when asked he says he does. About 18 months ago I convinced him to go out with me once a week for a "date night" although he said if we called it that, he wouldn't go because it was too cheesy. Our relationship improved quite a bit with only this small amount of UA and I was feeling a lot better about our relationship. I have been on the verge of leaving quite a few times and have talked it over with him, which is how we ended up with the date night, but now he claims that even that amount of time is too much and 15 hours a week is completely out of the question.
I hit my sexual peak about 3 years ago and have been like a horny teenager ever since. Much to my dismay, it would seem his horny teen years are far behind him and he's more than happy to wait weeks to have sex, then say things like "You don't want to have sex" to me, joking, or "you don't give me enough sex", serious. I want to scream at him that it's all I've been thinking about, there is nothing I want more!, throw him on the floor and take what I want, but I know it's not right. I have never been one for masturbation, it's never worked out for me when I've tried it(too much childhood shame beaten into me I guess) my only ethical source of SF is him. I've tried talking to him about it, but he says if he doesn't want to have sex, he shouldn't have to have sex which I agree with, but leaves me in the lurch. I'm actually here today because over the last few days I've started fantasizing about having sex with other men, something that's never happened in our relationship before and it scares me to think about what it means for our relationship.
Things did seem to be getting somewhat better with the date night and everything, then last summer we got into a boat accident in which I nearly died. As we recovered, our accident seemed to make us closer, but then he shattered his ankle one night while we were out, about a month after the boat accident. Of course I had to take care of him, giving and giving and giving with little or no return for months, which is part of the commitment of a life together and I haven't felt resentment about it until recently when he's been withdrawing from me for not providing the same level of care I was providing in the months immediately after the accident. I am exhausted, the bank is empty and the outrageously large loans on that account are coming due, which he cannot or will not understand. Then came Hurricane Sandy which destroyed our home and forced us to look for a new one, which turned out to be extremely badly misrepresented so now we have to move again. It's a lot of stress at once, but we've handled worse so I know we could make it through this as well if our relationship were better.
Our biggest issue of all though, in my opinion is our communication. He says he feels like he shouldn't have to talk over every little thing with me. When I try to discuss how he handles our family finances he shuts down and tells me that he's not in charge of the finances and he just needs to make more money. I tell him this scares me because I trust him to be in control of our family finances and I personally know that he makes more than $100,000 per year. This should be enough for a family of 7 to live on decently, if not comfortably, even in NJ where we live, but there are times when we are so low on food that I have to run to the store just to have something for dinner. He says I have access to all of our accounts so I know where the money is going and the only time I bring it up is when we don't have any(which is not true, but it's what he chooses to remember). I try to explain to him that we don't ever have to have a time when we don't have any if we budget properly, but he refuses to even look at any budget plan or ideas and makes many arguments against a budget plan.
I think our second largest issue is his control issue. He seems to feel the need to control everyone around him as much as possible. I can have friends, but every time I did he talked so badly about them that I have given up trying to have any, compounding my loneliness. When I bring up the fact that he doesn't allow me to have friends he says I can have all the friends I want, no one is stopping me. When I mention the terrible things he's said about the women I've tried to befriend(I could never say I had a male friend, Whew! You'd see fireworks then!) he says those things are true and I need to pick better people to associate with. When I say I have no one to talk to besides him, he says he's in the same boat, then picks up his phone and calls at least 2-3 people to discuss what he wants to discuss. I literally have not one single adult in my life I can pick up the phone and talk to about anything and I have worked very hard not to talk about any of this with my kids, who also have no friends. He seems to believe everyone we want to hang out with is a bad influence while his associates are perfectly fine(I happen to know at least 3 of them are serial cheaters). When I wanted to become healthier I started to change my diet and he started making his own food and the kids of course wanted the foods we were eating(which he is cooking), not the healthier fare I was now providing. We're still having issues over that as he claims I'm trying to control him and what he eats. He wants me to massage his ankle, shoulder, etc every day while never offering to massage anything for me. If I refuse, no matter the reason(like I've been doing it every day for a week and I'm tired) he withdraws. His most effective weapon against me is his full withdrawal which he's been using against me for years. Half the time it's something I've done(no matter how trivial, it can trigger weeks of withdrawal), the other half I have no idea what's going on. He just withdraws for days, sometimes weeks and I'm left in the cold to guess what's going on. My response in the past has been to pour more effort into getting him to come back to me, but the well of effort that used to be there ran dry about 2 years ago and now when he withdraws I just withdraw myself and wait for him to come out of it. I know this is not a great response but it's the only one I've got for being ignored when I'm trying so hard. I've literally done every single thing I can think of, put so much effort into understanding him and his needs and meeting them, changed myself so much to be everything he wanted and needed from me and yet, here we are. He is full on against doing any program. He thinks we don't need anyone but us to solve our problems.
I think I'm coming to the end of the line. I don't want to end the relationship because I am concerned about how it will affect the children, but I also do not want them to think that this is how marriage is supposed to be. Please give me your perspective on this. I really need some outside looking in type of advice.