Marriage Builders
Posted By: ETW Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/09/13 10:59 PM
OK, here goes it, I looked and did not see this discussed anywhere. I am married for 18 years to a wonderful woman, but since day one, I was never passionately attracted to her looks. Early on in the dating, I actually broke it off base on my lack of appreciation of her appearance, she is an average looking lady who has never been in great physical shape. I don't even like to hold hands or show any public affection.

Now, it is reaching a point that I feel like I tossed my life aside and missed out on all of the passion that I should have experienced. I am an attractive man and I misjudged her looks going into the relationship, but we hit it off! I have never told her my feelings, but she knows I don't find her looks appealing, never have, I thought I was doing the right thing to settle down with a woman who would be a great mother. Now, however, at the age of 45 I am still in great shape and really wishing we never married, my eyes wander to attractive women and I know she notices. I look for other hobbies to express my passion for life and beauty. What is amazing to me is how much appreciation I now have retrospectively on the importance of a man finding his wife beautiful, and how this most certainly DOES NOT fade over time, or grow into true love which is blind...it is a wall in our relationship.

I would like to hear if anyone is also dealing with this, and whether this might be sensible grounds to explore divorce, she deserves someone who is drawn to her! But with two children (although older) I would not welcome the mess.

Help!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/09/13 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I would like to hear if anyone is also dealing with this, and whether this might be sensible grounds to explore divorce, she deserves someone who is drawn to her! But with two children (although older) I would not welcome the mess.

Help!

You can turn this around. First off, she needs to be told the truth about what she can do to improve her appearance. And secondly, if she is doing a great job of meeting your other most important emotional needs, you can still be in love with her even though she is not Miss America.

It is amazing how many times people have passionate affairs, for example, with a person who is much less attractive than the betrayed spouse. They fall in love because the other intimate emotional needs are being met. People RARELY fall in love based on physical attraction alone, and if they do, it doesn't last if the other ENs are not being met.

Are you having an affair now? Are you attracted to someone?
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 01:34 AM
Wow, I really can't imaging bluntly telling her how I wish she would look better to me, sounds horrible just thinking about it. Some of it is pure genetics, I think that would crush her self esteem.

I am not having an affair, I think that would only make my feeling 100 times worse knowing a better looking woman could be my partner.

She does meet my emotional needs, just not the pride of her looks, and the emotion of appreciating her beauty.

* I just read another post titled 80/20 rule, pretty good stuff. Just gut wrenching to think the 20% I would need to come to grips with living without is my attraction to her. I actually get jealous thinking that she gets to have my good looks, but I have to settle for how she looks.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 01:56 AM
But, she is not meeting your needs successfully if you are not in love with her. And if you were in love with her, you wouldn't be considering divorce. She can't fix that problem if you aren't honest with her. This is all vital information that she needs to have in order to have a successful marriage.

I would get the book His Needs, Her Needs, read it and then find a tactful way to tell her the truth. One such way would be for you both to take the emotional needs questionnaires and exchange them.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 02:08 AM
Thank you, I will look into the book. If she had the looks I desire in a woman, we would have a relationship for the ages. I just don't know how much can be improved or how interested she would be in making changes.

I don't think she has any idea how unplugged I am, we have never had any passion, so it's not like there is anything that just recently has stopped showing up.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 03:13 AM
Looks alone won't sustain a relationship, but if she learns to do a good job meeting your other intimate emotional needs, you can have a passionate, romantic marriage.

Who have you been comparing her to? Do you look at porn? Who are you looking at to get your point of comparison?
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 03:22 PM
Have not looked at porn for many many years, did as a kid.

I am not comparing her, I just know beauty when I see it. The problem is that she never was beauty in my eyes, but she had other qualities, and still does. I ordered the book already, and looked at some of the outline, I see that physical attraction man to wife is one listed on the guys side.
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I misjudged her looks going into the relationship


What does that mean..."misjudged" her looks?

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I have never told her my feelings, but she knows I don't find her looks appealing, never have


How can she KNOW this if you have never told her?

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I thought I was doing the right thing to settle down with a woman who would be a great mother.

Ohhh...you deceived her.

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I look for other hobbies to express my passion for life and beauty


Could one of these hobbies be......porn?

That can cause a person to rewrite history...and to start looking at their wives in an entirely different way.

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she deserves someone who is drawn to her!

How unselfish of you. MrRollieEyes

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But with two children (although older) I would not welcome the mess


crazy...and there we have the REAL truth. "Mess"...what a trite little word.

committed

P.S. Don't be mad at me Mel. blush
Posted By: GloveOil Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
...I don't think she has any idea how unplugged I am, we have never had any passion, so it's not like there is anything that just recently has stopped showing up.
So whose fault is that?

You don't tell her how you really feel... so you never give her a chance to give you what you want.

"Attactive spouse" is a real emotional need for some people, but if you deliberately fail to communicate what your needs are, how can your partner be expected to know that he/she should put in the effort to meet them?

Get off the schneid & stop with the deception & conflict-avoidance, ETW. Here you are, looking for validation on a possible decision to divorce, when you haven't even given your wife a fighting chance to start meeting this need of yours. That, my friend, is a load of crap, dontcha think? First, give her a chance, man.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I am not comparing her, I just know beauty when I see it. The problem is that she never was beauty in my eyes, but she had other qualities, and still does. I ordered the book already, and looked at some of the outline, I see that physical attraction man to wife is one listed on the guys side.

Well, you must be comparing her to something or someone if you have concluded she doesn't measure up. That means you have a standard that comes from somewhere. Is the competition still open?

All of the emotional needs can be either applied to men or women. There is no "guys side." Some women have that need and some guys don't. Every person is different.

I would be careful how you present this information to her and perhaps wait until you get the book and you both complete the questionnaires. I wouldn't present it by telling her that she has genetic impairments that can't be improved [which is nonsense] but something like this: "I would love it if you did ________."

What could she change about her herself to make her more attractive?

Hello to my friend, commie!! grin
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 08:38 PM
Melody, I will take your advise and wait on the book. To all of you and your comments about letting her know exactly how I feel, I am really torn on that. I know she knows that my feelings due to my 18 years of not commenting once on how I love her looks, and also that she notices that I notice other women. But I would feel pretty horrible to outline areas that she could improve on, sounds just awful!

I will read the book and determine if maybe this will just be the 20% need that does not get met (see above comment referring to another thread). I just know it is a big one for me and as I get older I feel the clock of time ticking reminding me that it may not ever be met.

Once again, I am not comparing her to anyone, a woman either has it or she does not. I think one of you may have touched on something, I have always been the "keep the peace" kind of guy, I avoided this subject these many years for just that purpose. But I suspect she is also reaching her limit.

Can't wait for the book, thanks again for all of your comments.

PS. there is NO PORN going on here, so can we leave that off the one minute psychiatrist input please. I really want to work through this.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 08:46 PM
I did miss a couple of responses to questions. I misjudged her looks by judging her too quickly, over the first couple of dates I made up my mind that she was not pretty enough for my tastes, but she was exactly what I looked for in a long term mate from a personality perspective. She has a body shape that I do not at all find sexually attractive, she is very pear shaped.

As for the other hobbies, I am talking about painting or sculpting which I used to be very good at. I love creating works of beauty.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
Melody, I will take your advise and wait on the book. To all of you and your comments about letting her know exactly how I feel, I am really torn on that. I know she knows that my feelings due to my 18 years of not commenting once on how I love her looks, and also that she notices that I notice other women. But I would feel pretty horrible to outline areas that she could improve on, sounds just awful!

It's not going to work if you aren't honest with her, though. She doesn't know your feelings. And if you are "noticing" other women, that is part of the problem. That means you are comparing and the competition is still open. When you get married the competition should be closed. Because it hasn't closed here, you are continually comparing her to others and she will always come up short when compared to some. That is not fair or reasonable.

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I will read the book and determine if maybe this will just be the 20% need that does not get met (see above comment referring to another thread). I just know it is a big one for me and as I get older I feel the clock of time ticking reminding me that it may not ever be met.

It can get met BETTER if you tell her about the problem. And once again, one need being met will never suffice. Lets say that you married someone who has great looks, that would never be enough to create romantic love unless she met your other needs in a perfect way.

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Once again, I am not comparing her to anyone, a woman either has it or she does not.

You said above:

Originally Posted by ETW
I know she knows that my feelings due to my 18 years of not commenting once on how I love her looks, and also that she notices that I notice other women.

I could tell that you are comparing her in your first post even though you want to deny that.

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I think one of you may have touched on something, I have always been the "keep the peace" kind of guy, I avoided this subject these many years for just that purpose. But I suspect she is also reaching her limit.

Unspoken issues in marriage leads to a superficiality that prevents an intimate relationship. Keeping the peace is a disastrous practice in marriage.

But we can help you overcome this if you stick with us.


Posted By: GloveOil Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/10/13 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
...I know she knows that my feelings due to my 18 years of not commenting once on how I love her looks, and also that she notices that I notice other women. ...
Sounds like you're making assumptions. I can tell you firsthand that making assumptions is about the worst form of spousal "communication" there can be.
Originally Posted by ETW
...But I would feel pretty horrible to outline areas that she could improve on, sounds just awful!
Allowing her to remain in the dark about how you feel? That sounds pretty awful to me. Arrogating for yourself the right to decide what part of the truth she's allowed to hear from you? That sounds like a pretty awful way to treat someone.

Well... you've turned me around, ETW. I was going to make some suggestions about how you can improve your marriage (and I know a thing or two about digging a marriage out of rock-bopttom), but as I think about it, I think the best thing you can do is to give her a divorce. See, you don't just think you're better-looking than she is. You think you're better, period. The fact that you won't level with her, proves it.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/11/13 03:53 AM
"She has a body shape that I do not at all find sexually attractive, she is very pear shaped."

I'm not an expert on all the rest of the discussion, but I am an expert on the female pear shape.

Unless she is very pear shaped AND overweight, there is nothing she can do about this. She can work-out fiendishly and it will never change. She can make heroic efforts to tone her thighs and glutes, but the pear will never go.

The idea that distance runners are always slender is a myth; all runners except pear shaped ones can run their legs/glutes slender.

If she is overweight, even if she loses weight she will still be pear shaped.

A liposuction and cellulase could make a fantastic difference and would be far less expensive (emotionally and financially) than a divorce.

Your wife probably likes her pear shape as much as you do, and may welcome that investment.

[Edited to add: By overweight, I mean BMI 26 or greater. Anything less than that is in the normal range for everyone else but on a pear shaped person still appears unsightly and overweight. If she has BMI of 25 or less, it's as good as it will get short of being very underweight - and no fair to expect her to be underweight.)
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/11/13 10:18 PM
I have given this a full day's thought, and I am sorry but I think you all are 100% wrong about telling her how she can improve her looks to satisfy my need to be attracted to and adore my wife's appearance. I am not sure what the answer is but you people have fallen off the rocker, I suppose if there was something she could actually do to really improve her looks, it may make sense, but otherwise this approach will undoubtedly destroy her self image. Although you all may think I am heartless based on what I have shared in a few paragraphs about my situation, I could never confirm what she may or may not think is in my heart. I would rather her think I am just a rat of a husband with wandering eyes that checks out other women.

ETW by the way is short for eyes that wander.

I have decided to accept this as my 20% need that will never be satisfied in this lifetime, and try to be less noticeable when appreciating a beautiful face or figure.

By the way, I think Melody has it right on, I really never stopped shopping for my partner.......moral of the story for me, love is not blind.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/11/13 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
ETW by the way is short for eyes that wander.

I have decided to accept this as my 20% need that will never be satisfied in this lifetime, and try to be less noticeable when appreciating a beautiful face or figure.

By the way, I think Melody has it right on, I really never stopped shopping for my partner.......moral of the story for me, love is not blind.

You got the wrong "moral." The moral of the story is that when you get married you are supposed to stop shopping. Your wife is essentially competing with every attractive woman that crosses your path. And that is an unfair expectation. She loses by default due to the contrast effect.

Does she know you have a gawking problem? Does she see you doing this?

And you can say we are off our rocker about being radically honest, but we have great marriages. And you don't. You won't ever have a great marriage if you aren't honest with your spouse. Making such a complaint is like getting an overdraft notice from the bank. You might not getting the notice, but getting it gives you a chance to correct the problem. In your wife's case, I am sure there is lots she can do to improve her appearance.

You owe it to your wife to stop shopping. That should have stopped when you got married.
Posted By: NYC_Runner Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/11/13 11:00 PM
I keep coming back to this thread, but couldnt figure out why. Then I realized it is similar to us. I think women with short hair is sexy. This is extra-weird because my moms hair is short, but go figure. Anyway, most of the short-haired women I met while dating turn out to be gay.

So I gave up this 'requirement' to the women I dated because they a) broke my heart into a million slivers, then stomped on the pile, and b) would make terrible wife material. and c) did and would cheat on me with the other team.

I am very happy with DW's looks, our three beautiful daughters, and her long hair is beautiful. And I am grateful to her because I'm certainly no Brad Pitt!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 12:45 PM
Here are some good radio clips about gawking.

Radio Clip on Gawking
Segment #2
Radio Clip on Gawking
Posted By: catwhit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 01:00 PM
Hello Eyes;

You are getting excellent advice from the experienced posters here. However, you may require a different messenger.

Why not consider emailing Joyce Harley with your specific question, to see about being a caller on the radio program? As a caller, you will have a chance to interact directly with Dr. Harley. In my (very recent) experience, Dr. Harley was able to put his finger directly on the issue, and provide crystal clear illumination as for both my husband and me. And he kept talking us through the issues until we could both have clarity on the application of MB principles in our specific case.

To be a caller, send an email to: mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. Briefly outline your situation and ask your question. Indicate your willingness to be a caller. Include your telephone number and full address. (They will send you a complimentary book if you are a US resident.)

Your willingness to resolve this issue may be the greatest gift you can give your wonderful wife. And to yourself.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 03:09 PM
ETW you have on more than one occassion stated that it was 'horrible' and 'just aweful' to think about being O&H with your wife about your needs that are going unmet. You are hiding behind the grand idea that you are sacrificing being O&H to help maintain her self esteem.

Huh?

Meanwhile, you have readily admitted that you think you are better looking than her, that you have not once in your 18 year marriage complimented her on her looks, and that you routinely gawk at other 'more attractive' women IN HER PRESENCE.

I would wager that she HAS no self esteem after such disgusting behavior over the course of 18 years.

You readily admit she meets all other needs, yet talk about her like she is less than you because of her genetically inclined inability to meet your ideal of beauty. I would LOVE to hear from her side of things, about how YOU are meeting her EN's. I would put money on the fact that O&H, admiration and affection are lacking, at the least.

Have you stopped to take your OWN inventory here? To ask yourself what YOU are bringing to this marriage, short from self proclaimed beauty?

And, btw, PA is generally not a top EN for women. (FYI If you would just take the questionnaire together you could find out what her top EN's are, and how you are meeting those).

It is true that PA is a high EN for many men, seems to be high for you. Yes there are genetic characteristics that each individual must work with. It is possible for your wife to be the best that she can be to meet your need for PA, but you are not even giving her a chance to try due to your unwillingness to even be honest about what your need is and what you would like to see her do to try and meet that need.

Yet you continue to let it be known that you do not find her attractive in much more subtle, sneaky ways, like refusing to compliment her on her looks and oogling pretty women in her presence. (Seriously dude, you can't say 'oh that color looks nice on you...' ONCE in 18 years???).

IMO that is FAR, FAR more damaging than taking the EN questionnaire with her and helping her understand how she can better meet your needs.

But if you don't believe 'us guys' who have fallen off our rockers, call in or email the Harleys. They are the experts.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I actually get jealous thinking that she gets to have my good looks, but I have to settle for how she looks.

Oh. Lucky her! I too am so jealous of her getting to experience your good looks all these years!

Nevermind the disrespectful "I am so much better than you" attitude, and the oogling over other women in her presence. She should just be thankful to be with such an amazingly handsome man!

puke
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by unwritten
Meanwhile, you have readily admitted that you think you are better looking than her, that you have not once in your 18 year marriage complimented her on her looks, and that you routinely gawk at other 'more attractive' women IN HER PRESENCE.

I would wager that she HAS no self esteem after such disgusting behavior over the course of 18 years.

unwritten blows me away with her perspectives sometimes and she does it here again. I can think of nothing more demeaning than being with a man who is gawking at other women.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I actually get jealous thinking that she gets to have my good looks, but I have to settle for how she looks.

yuck, most women are not driven by your looks, though. It might grab a look see, but that is about it. The top need of most women is affection and conversation. My last husband was an extremely handsome man and I could hardly stand him because he was a wimp and because he didn't do a good job of meeting my needs. My current husband does a GREAT JOB of meeting my needs and I find him much more attractive than my hunky XH.

Self centered guys are typically a huge turn off to women.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
unwritten blows me away with her perspectives sometimes and she does it here again. I can think of nothing more demeaning than being with a man who is gawking at other women.

Always a HUGE compliment coming from you ML.

I wouldn't gawk at another person ON A FIRST DATE because it is so insensitive and disrespectful (and totally unclassy may I add), much less in the presence of my husband and father of my children.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I am not having an affair, I think that would only make my feeling 100 times worse knowing a better looking woman could be my partner.

So you would not have an affair, not because of how devastating it would be to your wife and the mother of your children, but because it would make you feel bad for YOURSELF because poor you would have to live your life knowing you *could* have a better looking woman.

The self centeredness of this poster absolutely astounds me.

Listen ETW, you CAN turn this around and have a great marriage using the MB principles. But I will guarentee you that your main focus here should be your OWN side of the street. From what you have written here, your wife has so much more reason to be wondering whether to stay in this marriage than you do.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/12/13 04:16 PM
ETW,

Here's a good thread for you to read about another gawker.

IHopefulguy's Thread
Posted By: Dr. Harley Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/14/13 02:49 PM
ETW:

I've had several cases like yours where a husband never did find his wife attractive, even when they were dating, but married her for a variety of reasons, usually because she was pregnant. My approach is to help her make as many Love Bank deposits as possible in ways that do not require physical attractiveness, mostly with recreational companionship. My standard assignment is for them to exercise together regularly, and to be together for all leisure and recreational activities. One husband who I counseled, and followed my plan even though he didn't think it would work, called me from his car one day to tell me that for the first time in his relationship with his wife, he was in love. He couldn't wait to be with her, and he found her to be very physically attractive.

While it's true that physical appearance can make massive Love Bank deposits with someone who is not in love, being in love can make an otherwise plain looking person look physically attractive.

So in summary, I would suggest that you focus your attention on exercising together (which would help shape her up), and don't do anything recreational without her. But when you exercise, avoid having other women, especially attractive women, exercising with you. And remember my cardinal rule: 15 hours of undivided attention every week spent in meeting the emotional needs of affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship. I wouldn't tell her that you don't find her attractive, though. Instead, I would invite her to join you in these activities that you feel would bring you closer together.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/14/13 05:45 PM
Thanks so much for weighing in, Dr Harley!!
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/14/13 10:19 PM
Thank you so much Dr. Harley for weighing in. We actually do have a great romantic love relationship, but the tension from the physical void has been building up over time.

I will try to see if I can get her to work out with me, have done so in the past but she says I am too far ahead of her and it just makes her feel badly about herself. I am a lifetime athlete who is still competitive with the younger men in iron man competitions. I currently do tons of recreational athletic activities without her, that will be tough to give up!

I will keep posting back to let you all know our progress with the Doctor's advice.
I, too, am glad Dr. Harley weighed in. I've often known that women can develop attraction for a man who initially weren't attractive (my thread is evidence of that) but I've heard people say it's not true for men. I'm so glad Dr. Harley has evidence that a man CAN develop sexual attraction for his otherwise unattractive partner... IF he really wants to.
Posted By: graceful2b Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/15/13 04:58 PM
Was interesting Dr Harley said to not tell his wife he was not attracted to her.

Dr Harley has previously advised my husband to not exercise without me. We are in our late 50's. I think I am a physically attractive woman and yet in good shape. I put myself together (hair, makeup, clothes) in a stylish way my husband approves of and I enjoy. I am not overweight.

But my husband is much more athletic and an energizer bunny. He likes to compete. He likes to stay up with the younger crowd. He likes to keep his edge and get a 'high' from going all out.

I'd once believed this tendency to be a positive quality. Certainly for ones physical health and probably mental conditioning its admirable. In the old days my requests to receive time and attention that would draw my husband away from IB activities was subtly sanctioned to not appear as his selfish demand. I was the one making a selfish demand! But my husband was careful to appear to others, especially his IB cohorts to be devoted.

As it were my husband habituated around 'leaving me behind' so to speak. And as he competed on an individual basis one way or another we grew farther and farther apart. At one point I was very ill. He managed to seem like the devoted caretaker who needed to de-stress from all he had on his plate. He was very assessable to his exercise partners and completely un-assessable to me. He had been very turned on to me physically through out the years. But he began to make unflattering comments about my appearance.

My husband became both addicted and compulsive to the sport of karate. Later I learned in of itself -no problem- if we would have been experiencing this sport together as a RC. But eventually he became friends with a woman at the karate do-jo he was attending. She was younger and attractive. She paid attention to him because of his technical help to learn the sport. He came to believe he had an important role to fill while she attended the dojo. He was lead to believe he needed to be a source of encouragement. Our love banks were on empty and soon thru friendship my husband felt he was in love with this woman. He never said anything to this woman about his feelings. It was a fancy and one sided. So it did not evolve into a EA or PA between them. But it sent a loud warning to me and was a threat to our marriage of course.

I can do my reasonable best to keep up my appearance in the years ahead. But we are all going to age and change. You hope your spouse will see your beauty in more then the purely physical and remain by your side through sickness and in health. Enjoy the process of growing old together.

We have to confront my husbands compulsive/addiction tendency to a exercise oriented recreational activity for what it is. If left up to its own devices it will eat our marriage alive. All bets are off.

I have old letters going back 33 years that will attest to his physical attraction to me
but he has shown he can and will re-write history and say to himself what he wants to hear to give himself immunity. I don't mind keeping my own edge and pleasing my husband as long as its out of respect and care for me.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/18/13 09:39 PM
It is interesting to see Dr Harley advise this poster to not tell his wife he is not attracted to her.

This seems contradictory to PORH and the EN questionnaire that requires a rating as well as the specifics as to why someone has given that rating regarding PA.

I am confused.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/18/13 10:24 PM
OK. First things first, I have spent some time reading thru the other posts here and conclude that we actually have a pretty good marriage, other than the fact that I have never connected with my wife physically.

Second. My wife intercepted the book shipped to the house which prompted questions of why I ordered it. I told her that I thought it would be good to work on our marriage, she started with the 1000 questions wondering if I thought we had marriage problems. We did have a pretty honest discussion where I mentioned my looking at other women, she said she does not like it, but just wrote it off as men will be men. This probably would have been the best time to confront her on the fact I am not attracted to her looks, that our relationship is more of a very deep friendship. But I just couldn't.

We agreed to work thru the questions, but said that she though we already had a good marriage. She brought the book up again later that night and was digging to see why I though we should work on our marriage out of the blue.

I might have to come clean. Never did mention the exercising together part. I am not liking were this is headed, but I also know that right now, our relationship is wide open for a pretty face or attractive figure to penetrate our "pretty good" marriage.
Posted By: catwhit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/19/13 12:08 AM
Eyes;

You could send an email to the radio show with your question/concern. If you do, you should include that Dr. Harley wrote to you on your forum postings, and that you are unclear about the next step.

I can see you are reticent about how to treat this turn of events.

To send email to the radio program, it is; mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. Include your address, and also your telephone number if you would be willing to be a caller on the show. Otherwise, they will likely read your email and answer it on air.

Posted By: happyheart Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/19/13 08:37 AM
it is not clear to me why the unappealing shape of your wife is unchangeable. Of course it is not reasonable to expect her to grow enormous breasts out of nowhere, or to expect her nose to change its form spontaneously.

It is on the other hand entirely possible for a pear- or apple-shaped person to loose a bit of their form by exercising and loosing weight.
However, it is hard to do and hard to keep off. So you should do your best to help her.

Also, although you say she has never been your 'favorite' shape, she was good-looking enough for you to marry her and to be happy with her for a number of years. Because you say that at the moment a pretty figure would be a threat to your marriage, this really does sound like you are out of love and it is usually not only because of the physical attraction. Maybe you are resentfull becaus she is not trying, although she does not know how important it is to you.

Although you do not want to tell her she is not attractive, there is nothing against telling her that you would love to exercise with her etc. There must be something about her that was fine with you in those days. And there must be specific points that can be changed, either by flattering clothing or by exercise.

The most important part seems to be to fall in love again. Please follow Dr. Harley's advice. It is your best chance to be happy agein.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/21/13 07:16 PM
Great news!!

My wife and I sat down last night and went over the questionnaire, I decided not to be 100% honest about the fact that I was never attracted to her physically. I don't see how that could help because I chose her for my wife and knew about how I felt about her looks, we are probably a lot different than most the rest of you because she cant try and recapture some of her attractiveness by losing weight or something, it was never there in the first place. But I did tell her it was my #1 need.

I am doing pretty good on meeting her needs, her most important one is financial. I do pretty good in my career and she works only when she wants to sign up for a project. I said that recreational activities was #2 which will allow us to spend time like the Dr suggested.

She said she wants to look good for me and is open to anything that might help, just knowing that made me feel so much better. There was a show called the Swan on TV that showed some people who looked amazing after making changes. I agreed to include her on our retirement planning and letting her know how we will be able to retire. And we will be joining our bank accounts together.

I know that right now, nothing really has changed, but it feels like a new day. Just being able to tell her how important her looks are to me was a big step. She said she knows she is not the best looking out there, she was surprised that this was on the top of my list.

This book should be given to anyone considering marriage as a prerequisite.
Posted By: happyheart Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/21/13 08:02 PM
Good for you, that you have started things in a positive direction with your wife.

If she stated financial support as her number 1 need, that may be because she is currently not 'in love'. (I am not saying it is so, but it is possible)
People who are in love usually choose intimate emotional needs like affection, conversation and secual fullfillment as their top need.

Are there emotional needs on your wife's side that you are not fullfilling?

Also, you are making me curious as to what your wife's beauty problem is, that is so bothersome to you. I am a medical doctor and I am a bit sceptical about the 'Swan' show you mentioned. Some of the things they do seem to be an improvement, but on the other hand, I have seen instances, where I think the effect could have been reached solely with sport, diet, a good haircut and good make-up.

If you are thinking about plastic surgery and such, it is really important that oyu realize that there can be complications, side effects and results that work out worse than before surgery. Of course there may be medical reasons, but as long as I don't know what condition we are talking about, I cannot say anything sensible about it.

I applaud you and your wife for planning recreational activiites and time together. It will not take long for the two of you to notice a difference.

God bless,

Happyheart
Posted By: fl2tx Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/22/13 05:32 AM
Hello.. sounds to me that something changed about her. What changed? What part of her is different? Her appearance has always been a weakness for you. What strength is she not demonstrating anymore?

Wish you well
Posted By: wannabophim Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/22/13 06:16 PM
I am guessing that when you first started dating, she didn't meet your Physical Attractiveness need but met so many others that your Love Bank was full.

I am guessing now that she is not meeting all those needs so you are starting to notice the lack of Physical attractiveness.

I am also guessing that maaaayyyyybe you have been slacking in meeting her needs, also leading her to stop meeitng yours and starting a downward cycle.

So, what can you do?

You can start meeting her needs, so she starts meeting yours, so you feel in love again!

Also you could look for a fancy gym with a spa and pool and hot tub and say that you thought you both could join this gym and that it has neat yoga classes and a pool and a hot tub and a spa and it is something you could do together.
Which is what leaves me to believe that she might have been doing HIM a big favor in agreeing to marry him.

He would have been hard pressed to find another woman that would have put up with the vanity and ego of such a man.

Just sayin'...

committed
Posted By: kerala Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/24/13 06:56 PM
Right. Because we all know that vain, egotistical men never get women to marry them.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/25/13 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by unwritten
It is interesting to see Dr Harley advise this poster to not tell his wife he is not attracted to her.

This seems contradictory to PORH and the EN questionnaire that requires a rating as well as the specifics as to why someone has given that rating regarding PA.

I am confused.

I was hoping someone who is wiser on the MB principles than me (not hard to find) would explain Dr H's answer more. I have revisited this thread to try and get some clarity on the topic of the PORH and how it applies to PA.

MelodyLane?
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/25/13 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
Great news!!

My wife and I sat down last night and went over the questionnaire, I decided not to be 100% honest about the fact that I was never attracted to her physically.

Here. This bothers me immensely. It is a complete contradiction to the PORH. It is deceptive.

It is great that his wife has enthusiastically agreed to some UA time at the gym, but I feel like she has been given just a small portion of the information we have been given here. This poster has discussed how the lack of getting this need met has impacted him, to the point of talking separation/divorce. Yet it was candy coated to his wife. I think that is totally unfair and does not give her the full truth of what she is dealing with here.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/25/13 09:04 PM
Unwritten ... the damage done to a woman by the honesty is greater than the solution to fix it. PA can be fixed by meeting the top Four EN's with 15+ hours/week. When this happens ETW will be attracted to his wife ... the problem is fixed.

The resentment and hurt she will feel is far greater and will take ETW more extensive work to fix. The best solution is to simply have her meet his needs for 15+ hours/week.

It is the same approach to sex. Dr. Harley finds sexual imcompatibility usually corrects itself when the couple meet each other's intimate needs at least 15+ hours/week.

Does this make sense?
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/25/13 09:09 PM
It actually makes perfect sense to me. You see, IF you have a need for physical attraction as one of your emotional needs, chances are that you entered into the relationship with that need being met.

Mine never was.

I honorably married this woman due to a situation, I would rather not provide the details. I suppressed my need for attraction in a spouse even though it is actually the most important one on my list. I guess I have done a good enough job hiding this because I am doing a pretty good job meeting her needs, but agree I need to do better on some.

Just curious, what do you people think she would do with the knowledge that I never was juiced by her looks? This is nothing she really can control.

We have begun taking hikes together. I will certainly give the Doctor's advise a shot and see if spending more time in recreational activities does help me see her as attractive. If it does not, I made a promise with myself to just keep suppressing my emotions and work on providing her bucket with deposits.

This forum is helping me deal with the fact that maybe this will just be with me forever.

Her number two need after financial security by the way, is need for affection. It sure would be easier if she were filling up my bucket in the attraction need to give her affection back in return.

Doesn't matter in the end, I am committed to giving her more affection. On the way back from our last hike, I held her hand in public.

Progress.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/25/13 09:45 PM
Reading your posts here suggest this actually has nothing to do with her PA, but your EXTREMELY High need for admiration.

I would go to your wife and tell her you have a very high need for admiration, which means you need her to praise you and stroke your ego any chance she has and all day/everyday. I would make sure you communicate to her just how much admiration you need, and make sure she understands how you like your admiration, i.e. praise, gifts, time, etc.

This should allow her to fill your lovebank with buckets full of love.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/25/13 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
Unwritten ... the damage done to a woman by the honesty is greater than the solution to fix it. PA can be fixed by meeting the top Four EN's with 15+ hours/week. When this happens ETW will be attracted to his wife ... the problem is fixed.

The resentment and hurt she will feel is far greater and will take ETW more extensive work to fix. The best solution is to simply have her meet his needs for 15+ hours/week.

It is the same approach to sex. Dr. Harley finds sexual imcompatibility usually corrects itself when the couple meet each other's intimate needs at least 15+ hours/week.

Does this make sense?

I have often heard people say on the SAA forum that it is a DJ to think that your spouse cannot handle the TRUTH and therefore it is not acceptable to be vague or dishonest with the intention of protecting them. Given that no, this does not make sense.

If PA can just be 'fixed' by meeting the most intimate EN's, then why is it part of the questionnaire? Why would Dr Harley ask spouses to identify their most important EN's, and identify those specific things that you want your spouse to change to meet the PA EN? Such as, weight change, hair changes, attire change, clothing change... Versus to just provide us with the four INTIMATE ones and tell us to just focus on those and the rest will correct themselves naturally.

Regarding SF, although I have heard Dr Harley say that also, there is a completely separate questionnaire to provide very specific sexual need meeting information. Never does he say "just tell your spouse you are fine with SF and spend the UA time and it will all fall into place." It says to tell your spouse you are NOT happy with the way that need is being met, WHY you are not happy, and HOW they can better meet that need.

So I guess I have never understood Dr Harley advising anyone to be vague or deceptive in their needs or how to meet those needs, especially under the DJ presumption that it is to 'protect' their spouse.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/25/13 11:00 PM
Sorry ETW I don't mean to thread jack you here. I'm just very curious about this topic.
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/26/13 12:14 AM


Originally Posted by WalkinForward
Unwritten ... the damage done to a woman by the honesty is greater than the solution to fix it. PA can be fixed by meeting the top Four EN's with 15+ hours/week. When this happens ETW will be attracted to his wife ... the problem is fixed.

The resentment and hurt she will feel is far greater and will take ETW more extensive work to fix. The best solution is to simply have her meet his needs for 15+ hours/week.

It is the same approach to sex. Dr. Harley finds sexual imcompatibility usually corrects itself when the couple meet each other's intimate needs at least 15+ hours/week.

Does this make sense?

I AGREE 100%.

ETW...you are smart to tread lightly with this.

Please continue to follow Dr. H's specific advice to you because he SELDOM posts on individual public forum threads. You are on the right track. He understands the BIG PICTURE dynamic of Romantic Love.

Recently I heard a MB radio segment (I wish I could find it�) where Dr. Harley discussed radical honesty. He said that in the book LOVEBUSTERS, he introduced Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments and Angry Outburst before Dishonesty for a specific reason. We need to be very RESPECTFUL in our honesty, when we tell our spouse that they could fill our love bank by working on their physical attractiveness.

Please make a list of a few things that she could focus on to IMPROVE in areas you care about. Write it down and edit it until it is respectful and kind, but honest. It will be tough, because she may grill you.

IMHO, it is a HUGE MISTAKE to tell your wife that she WAS NEVER or CAN NEVER BE attractive enough or that she has the WRONG body type to meet your need.

That is what happened to me. In fact, my husband is the one with the gawking thread you were referred to. The WAY he was RH was very damaging to me and I have not healed from it even though I have a clearer understanding of the dynamics which plagued our relationship for 20 years. Hint: My PA was not the BIGGEST problem. I am not sure that I will ever recover from the hurtful, disrespectful, judgmental things he said. My husband has come out of the fog, reached the romantic love threshold, and sees me very differently than at the time he said them. He regrets the disrespectful things he said. I still have lots of room for improvement to meet his need for PA, but he does see my beauty and how lucky HE is that I DIDN'T QUIT.




Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/26/13 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
Reading your posts here suggest this actually has nothing to do with her PA, but your EXTREMELY High need for admiration.

I would go to your wife and tell her you have a very high need for admiration, which means you need her to praise you and stroke your ego any chance she has and all day/everyday. I would make sure you communicate to her just how much admiration you need, and make sure she understands how you like your admiration, i.e. praise, gifts, time, etc.

This should allow her to fill your lovebank with buckets full of love.

X2

And remember, any compliment or ego stroking that she gives you is worth 10x the admiration from outside your marriage. Your wife has lived with your neglect and flaws for a long time and other people haven't.
Posted By: graceful2b Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/26/13 12:32 AM

The following is a quote from the weekend forum posted by Dr Harley 2 years ago explaining disrespectful judgements. Perhaps this information will help to explain his post to this particular thread.


"Starting with "I feel ... " is a good way to begin a sentence, but the rest of it should not contain any judgmental words. The sentence "I feel that you're an idiot" is an obvious misuse of the words "I feel." "I feel" should be used to express a perspective in a non-demanding and respectful way. "I feel differently about that issue. I would enjoy seeing red roses instead of the white roses that we have in our garden. How do you feel about it." There are many disrespectful alternatives to that comment that may be difficult to see at first, such as "I feel that white roses are unattractive." Even though that may be how you really feel about white roses, it is judgmental in that it gives the impression that if you like white roses, you have no taste in roses. People who have not learned to speak in respectful ways can't see this point, and view their word, "unattractive," as being only unattractive to themselves, with no intent to imply that the other person might be offended by that comment. That's why you must write down every sentence your husband says to you that you feel is disrespectful and explain that you found it to be that way. If he says that you do the same thing, he should write down any sentences you utter that he views as disrespectful. Interpretation is everything. The only thing that both of you should do that might be interpreted as being disrespectful by the other is actually writing them down."
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/26/13 01:01 AM
ETW:I want to commend you for coming here to get help to build your marriage. Reading your thread is a HUGE trigger for me, and I have not posted until today for that very reason. But, even as difficult as it is to hear an echo from my past, I know that you are in the right place, and if anything I say can make a difference, then it will be worth it.

Originally Posted by ETW
You see, IF you have a need for physical attraction as one of your emotional needs, chances are that you entered into the relationship with that need being met.

Mine never was.

You are not UNIQUE! I am guessing that you made a good decision, but then you allowed yourself to be WAYWARD and second guess yourself when things got tough.

I honorably married this woman due to a situation, I would rather not provide the details. I suppressed my need for attraction in a spouse even though it is actually the most important one on my list. I guess I have done a good enough job hiding this because I am doing a pretty good job meeting her needs, but agree I need to do better on some.

Just curious, what do you people think she would do with the knowledge that I never was juiced by her looks? This is nothing she really can control.

Dr. Harley said something to me/h that really sunk in for me. We can always go find something more IDEAL. But once we are married, the search is over. Like I told my husband, "I can't possibly fill the lovebank of somebody who spends his life dreaming of another wife, another life. That is INSANITY.

We have begun taking hikes together. I will certainly give the Doctor's advise a shot and see if spending more time in recreational activities does help me see her as attractive. If it does not, I made a promise with myself to just keep suppressing my emotions and work on providing her bucket with deposits.Good job! If you were to read 1HopefulGuy's threads, you would see that it isn't about supressing emotions. It is about where you place your focus and how much competition you allow to distract you from your vows and current job as husband and father.

This forum is helping me deal with the fact that maybe this will just be with me forever.

Her number two need after financial security by the way, is need for affection. It sure would be easier if she were filling up my bucket in the attraction need to give her affection back in return.

So you are withholding affection as a sort of punishment for not being pretty enough? Affection is about caring and connecting. Would you withhold affection from your kids because they weren't cute enough? Would you withhold compliments because they aren't cute enough or annoy you?

Doesn't matter in the end, I am committed to giving her more affection. On the way back from our last hike, I held her hand in public.
Okay then. Once you are in the habit, it will feel weird not to. You have probably had one mental foot out of the door for a LONG time, and allowing yourself to work with whatcha got, is a decision. Like Dr. Harley says, "Feelings follow actions." He is right. You just have to decide that maybe you CAN happy and confident, even without Miss Ironwoman as your wife. Start letting your wife meet those INTIMATE emotional needs. smile


THAT WILL BE
Progress.
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/26/13 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by graceful2b
The following is a quote from the weekend forum posted by Dr Harley 2 years ago explaining disrespectful judgements. Perhaps this information will help to explain his post to this particular thread.


"Starting with "I feel ... " is a good way to begin a sentence, but the rest of it should not contain any judgmental words. The sentence "I feel that you're an idiot" is an obvious misuse of the words "I feel." "I feel" should be used to express a perspective in a non-demanding and respectful way. "I feel differently about that issue. I would enjoy seeing red roses instead of the white roses that we have in our garden. How do you feel about it." There are many disrespectful alternatives to that comment that may be difficult to see at first, such as "I feel that white roses are unattractive." Even though that may be how you really feel about white roses, it is judgmental in that it gives the impression that if you like white roses, you have no taste in roses. People who have not learned to speak in respectful ways can't see this point, and view their word, "unattractive," as being only unattractive to themselves, with no intent to imply that the other person might be offended by that comment. That's why you must write down every sentence your husband says to you that you feel is disrespectful and explain that you found it to be that way. If he says that you do the same thing, he should write down any sentences you utter that he views as disrespectful. Interpretation is everything. The only thing that both of you should do that might be interpreted as being disrespectful by the other is actually writing them down."
It's funny that you posted that grace2b. We have been doing the MB online program too, and that is what we just decided to do. When there is a correction to be made or thoughtful request, we need to just write it down and edit it out before even presenting it to the other person. Verbal communication can be difficult to control.

ETW:
As others have suggested, you could thoughtfully make a list for yourself of things that she can reasonably do to IMPROVE in areas that you would appreciate. I know that in your mind, you may FEEL like it is hopeless, but I will bet that she would like to improve, especially if you complement her and notice her good features. (Her sparkly eyes, cute ears, white teeth, cute toes, nice wrists, painted nails?) Everyone has SOMETHING about them to compliment.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/28/13 07:27 PM
Does anyone know how long it takes for spending time together before I start changing how attractive I feel she is? So far, nothing has changed, and although she says she wants to look better for me, she has no interest in doing a real workout separately or together. She brought up again that she was surprised that looks were that important to me, and that she really thought I was "above" that.

I don't know if this is going to make any difference at all. Getting very depressed over this.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/28/13 07:34 PM
Not to mention the worst part is that she didn't rate physical appearance high on her list, so here I am knocking myself out to look and feel great, wasted on someone who is herself "above" needing that. I really think we just aren't right for each other, I have completely swung back to how I felt when I originally posted.

Sorry to let you'll down, but looks have been and always will be important to me. Sorry if that makes me less of a person! I will keep the plan, but don't have much faith.
Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/28/13 07:42 PM
Is she familiar with this program at all? It is a DJ for her to tell you she thought you were 'above that.' Not to mention that it shows she does not understand how EN's work.

I thought she was enthusiastic about the exercise program you came up with? What changed?
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/28/13 08:02 PM
Once again, You are HERE! Don't quit yet.

Originally Posted by ETW
Not to mention the worst part is that she didn't rate physical appearance high on her list, so here I am knocking myself out to look and feel great, wasted on someone who is herself "above" needing that.

ETW:

ENs usually don't match up between spouses. So it's not important to her. But it IS important to you. And you were honest and told her that. Good job.

The fact that she said she is "above" that, confirms what all have told you about your marriage needing the WHOLE MB program. It is disrespectful for her to make disrespectful comments about your Emotional Needs. How you feel should matter to her.

But, she is probably hurt and disillusioned right now, so for now, please try to answer with something like, "That may be true that my need for PA is shallow. I'm sorry that it hurts you." Or even, "When you say that, it makes me sad, like you don't care about how I feel and that I should give up hope for anything changing."

ETW:

I have taken time to post to you. Maybe it will motivate me further to work on my husband's need for PA. I would really like to know the following things:

1. How do you feel things would things change FOR YOU if you had a wife who was physically attractive?

2. Why do you knock yourself out to look and feel great? How do YOU feel about people who DON'T "Knock themselves out to Look and Feel Great?"







Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/28/13 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I really think we just aren't right for each other, I have completely swung back to how I felt when I originally posted.

Sorry to let you'll down, but looks have been and always will be important to me. MB program does not expect you to feel differently, ETW. Sorry if that makes me less of a person! No need to feel guilty about this. I will keep the plan, but don't have much faith.

ETW-

Could you please read the following articles and let me know if any of it applies to you and your wife?


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5026_qa.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5004_qa.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5004b_qa.html

DQ

Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 02/28/13 11:58 PM
If I had a wife who was physically attractive, I would then have sexual tension, a pull towards her sexually. I know what sexual tension feels like, and I miss and want that. She just does not command that respect visually with me.

The fact that she does not had the slightest interest in working out confirms that she is OK with her looks as they are, which is actually great for her, yippi! To be honest, I don't think working out would close the gap between my hopes and her looks anyways.

I will continue to spend the time with her and see if my feelings change.
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by ETW
If I had a wife who was physically attractive, I would then have sexual tension, a pull towards her sexually. I know what sexual tension feels like, and I miss and want that. She just does not command that respect visually with me.

Thanks for answering my questions. It helps me better understand what you are looking for and what bothers you.

Was the sexual tension you felt in the past MUTUAL between you and another person? (Y or N)

Was it recent? ( Y or N)
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by unwritten
I thought she was enthusiastic about the exercise program you came up with? What changed?

Unwritten asked this, and I am also wondering.

How did you feel toward your wife when she when she agreed to an improvement plan?

How do you feel about somebody who does not work on their appearance? (Not necessarily your wife.)



Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 02:13 AM
Re. Tension. Yes mutual, not for many years, back when I dated before I met my wife.
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 03:43 AM
I know that you are disappointed and wish she could visually stimulate you.

On the other hand, could you be using PA as an excuse for divorce that your sweet wife can't argue with?

Is that your plan? If so, just file.

If not, then I would Suggest that you and your kids have nothing to lose by your diving in 100% and trying to see
if you can make it the best marriage possible between you.

Listening to MBR DAILY for a year really helped us. The first search I did on MBR was for PA . That may be a way for your wife to better understand this need.

Posted By: living_well Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
Not to mention the worst part is that she didn't rate physical appearance high on her list, so here I am knocking myself out to look and feel great, wasted on someone who is herself "above" needing that. I really think we just aren't right for each other, I have completely swung back to how I felt when I originally posted.

Sorry to let you'll down, but looks have been and always will be important to me. Sorry if that makes me less of a person! I will keep the plan, but don't have much faith.


I have been pondering your situation. Emotional needs change over time so just because you married her without her meeting your need for PA does not mean it cannot become your top need now. Many women marry low earning men only to find financial support becomes a key need once they have children.

But back to you, I am trying to put myself in your wife's shoes and think why meeting your need for PA would not be something she would respond to. Here is the list I have come up with (in no particular order)

She does not know how to look prettier. That one is easy to solve - write a cheque and hand it to her!

She does not want to become more attractive to you. That one is easy to solve too - follow MB and fill her love bucket!

She is fat (has a food addiction). That one would be pretty hard to overcome, I think Dr Harley would suggest you separate from her until she has dealt with it.

She never really got the message. My hunch is that this is the one. I think I probably speak for every single person on this forum when I say that if I had known how massively disastrous it was not to meet my spouses needs, I would have fallen over myself in my haste to do it.

I applaud you for being here and sticking with this. You WILL solve it.
Posted By: Issachar Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 04:43 PM
I'm pretty late to this thread (don't lurk as often as I used to), but I did read the whole thing. Some disconnected thoughts in no particular order:

I want to encourage you for the steps you're taking. You will have frustrating, disappointing days. When that happens, buck up and tackle things again fresh the next day. Stick with it.

The advice "when you get married, stop shopping for a partner" is spot on. It's just a restatement of the adage "comparison is the mother of discontent." Look for ways to be happy in the marriage you have, not the one you could possibly have had. (Which, statistically, would have probably come with a whole slate of problems you DON'T have right now.)

Years ago, someone on these boards posted the following: "Remember -- no matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere has had it up to HERE with her crap." Even though that's an uncharitable way to think about a stranger, and it's not something I'd suggest you do all the time, on occasion I have found it to be a useful mental tool when I'm tempted to do more than glance at an attractive woman. (Works just as well with the genders reversed, too, for the ladies here.)

You've been labeled as a vain, shallow, self-centered person. I haven't seen enough evidence to convict you on those counts. To me, it looks like you're just being honest about thoughts that are common to men. Women tend to be repulsed by the idea that we think these things at all, comparing our own attractiveness to our spouses' and others, and feeling unattracted to the wives we married. I'm not arguing that "this is just how men are; it's natural, so deal with it." God does hold us accountable for our thoughts. We need to bring them under subjection to Christ. But I hate to see you shamed for admitting to the things you struggle with. Some of our thoughts and feelings ARE ugly. It doesn't mean they constitute the entire picture. And it's good that you put them out there anyway.

There are some superficial similarities between your situation and mine. I wasn't attracted to my DW when we dated. Rather, I lacked the courage and integrity to be honest about how I felt. So I talked myself into dating her, to avoid causing her the pain of rejection. I was hoping feelings would follow actions, a.k.a. "fake it til you make it." That plan didn't go as well as I'd hoped. Neither of us is happy with the state of our marriage today, though we are both committed to staying together and trying to improve things.

DW put on 100lbs the first year we were married, and it's stayed there ever since. For awhile, PA was an issue for me. I felt repulsed looking at her. But my wants and expectations have changed since then. Today I could honestly feel attracted to DW without her changing her body at all. How? If she smiled at me often...gave me spontaneous hugs or other little tokens of affection...didn't seem irritated by me all the time. What I'm pointing to is ATTITUDE. If your DW has an attractive attitude, count yourself very very blessed. I've come to believe that for me, a plain-Jane-average woman with a sunny smile is far, far more attractive than any model with a sour look on her face.

If that's true for you too, then you can make your DW more attractive by helping her feel confident about herself, and loved, and protected! Give her reasons to smile at you!
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Issachar
I'm pretty late to this thread (don't lurk as often as I used to), but I did read the whole thing. Some disconnected thoughts in no particular order:

I want to encourage you for the steps you're taking. You will have frustrating, disappointing days. When that happens, buck up and tackle things again fresh the next day. Stick with it.

The advice "when you get married, stop shopping for a partner" is spot on. It's just a restatement of the adage "comparison is the mother of discontent." Look for ways to be happy in the marriage you have, not the one you could possibly have had. (Which, statistically, would have probably come with a whole slate of problems you DON'T have right now.)

Years ago, someone on these boards posted the following: "Remember -- no matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere has had it up to HERE with her crap." Even though that's an uncharitable way to think about a stranger, and it's not something I'd suggest you do all the time, on occasion I have found it to be a useful mental tool when I'm tempted to do more than glance at an attractive woman. (Works just as well with the genders reversed, too, for the ladies here.)

You've been labeled as a vain, shallow, self-centered person. I haven't seen enough evidence to convict you on those counts. To me, it looks like you're just being honest about thoughts that are common to men. Women tend to be repulsed by the idea that we think these things at all, comparing our own attractiveness to our spouses' and others, and feeling unattracted to the wives we married. I'm not arguing that "this is just how men are; it's natural, so deal with it." God does hold us accountable for our thoughts. We need to bring them under subjection to Christ. But I hate to see you shamed for admitting to the things you struggle with. Some of our thoughts and feelings ARE ugly. It doesn't mean they constitute the entire picture. And it's good that you put them out there anyway.

There are some superficial similarities between your situation and mine. I wasn't attracted to my DW when we dated. Rather, I lacked the courage and integrity to be honest about how I felt. So I talked myself into dating her, to avoid causing her the pain of rejection. I was hoping feelings would follow actions, a.k.a. "fake it til you make it." That plan didn't go as well as I'd hoped. Neither of us is happy with the state of our marriage today, though we are both committed to staying together and trying to improve things.

DW put on 100lbs the first year we were married, and it's stayed there ever since. For awhile, PA was an issue for me. I felt repulsed looking at her. But my wants and expectations have changed since then. Today I could honestly feel attracted to DW without her changing her body at all. How? If she smiled at me often...gave me spontaneous hugs or other little tokens of affection...didn't seem irritated by me all the time. What I'm pointing to is ATTITUDE. If your DW has an attractive attitude, count yourself very very blessed. I've come to believe that for me, a plain-Jane-average woman with a sunny smile is far, far more attractive than any model with a sour look on her face.

If that's true for you too, then you can make your DW more attractive by helping her feel confident about herself, and loved, and protected! Give her reasons to smile at you!

Wow. That was a GREAT post!
Posted By: MrAlias Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 07:02 PM
Nice post Issachar (nice to see you around).

ETW,

I thought I�d throw in my .02 cents worth. I apologize for the length.

I've been lurking around your thread ... not quite sure what to offer for advice but I certainly have empathy for you. I remember a time when I found myself having similar feelings when I was younger and dating my wife. I even broke it off with her for this very PA reason. We did get back together, obviously, but only after her physical shape changed some. Long story made short she was a very, very thin girl back then and later on put on some weight where she then became more physically attractive to me. Only years after we were married did her shape reach a point where I was extremely attracted physically to her. I stand here today knowing I married her mostly because it was convenient at the time. PA and SF are two of my highest ENs and at the time we were to marry it appeared she wasn�t going to do a good job meeting either one of those. The PA changed for me later on because she changed enough.

There were other things about her during our dating years that gave me grief so the culmination of things were the reasons I broke it off � but I do remember her looks were at the top of the list. I felt like crap back then thinking I was vain and self centered, knowing I broke up with a girl over her physical appearance (skinniness). After all she was a very nice person and she was fun to be around. Some of those feelings spilled over into our marriage years as there were many times I felt I�d made a mistake in marrying her because I wasn�t that into her looks. That I should have held out for someone different.

Your sich may be different in that your W�s shape may never change to your liking. I�ll say I am very fortunate. Had her PA not changed I may have ended up being here posting a similar story.

You�ve gotten some good advice. Dr Harley gave you some sound advice on how you could go about setting up an environment/condition for you to see your W in another light.

The only additional advice I can give is that you aren�t a victim of your thoughts. That, to a large extent, you can control the thoughts that you have. I�m sure you�d like to find your W attractive but the only way that may happen for you is you find a way up there in your head to view her differently. This is going to sound contrary to some of the advice but don�t trust that simply spending UA time and having RC is going to be the entire recipe you need to improve your situation. {Mr Alias ducks the stream of objects hurled his way } Based on what you've said I think you need more than that for it to change.

Please be careful in your life making comparisons. I have often seen posts from the veterans here that speak of the evils of comparing their spouses to others (mostly in situations concerning an affair and an AP). It is quite possible you shut down some of your attraction to your W because you spend your time comparing and wanting the animal attraction (sexual tension) if you will. You know for a fact there are others out there that, on the surface, are attractive to you and you do the comparison. To sit around and speculate that you could land one of these ladies and that that gal is going to meet all your needs and not LB you � well that�s a path to disaster for your M.

I liken it to my car. I have a simple car. It�s a nice car. It�s dependable. But it ain�t flashy. I see other cars (Beemers, Audi�s, etc) drive by and I start the comparisons and I convince myself I no longer really like my car. But if I stop the comparisons, look at my car for what it is I actually kind of like it and lose the urge to go out and drop boatloads of cash on another set of wheels that is more flashy.

This is no small task. I can�t offer a plan on how you�d actually change your thoughts. I leave that to the pros. I do think it is something you should consider above and beyond.

1). Get in lots of UA time doing recreational things together.
2). Encourage your W to look her best.
3). Help your W feel confident, loved and protected (to quote Issachar).
4). Change your thought patterns.
Posted By: wilderness Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 08:25 PM
The red flag that I see is that your w responding to your need in the way that she did (thinking you were 'above' that) smacks of shaming behaviour, which is an EXTREMELY destructive way to deal with this issue. Also, you have commented that you don't think she'd be willing to work out. That's very bad, too. So that's on your wife.

But as far as you go, I have to take you to task over thinking that things can't get better. Just about anyone that puts their mind to it and works for it can have a great body, and great bodies on women ARE attractive and sexy. I know you commented that her body is 'pear shaped' but truthfully, some of the best bodies on women that I've ever seen come from pear shaped women (that is, pear shaped when they were formerly overweight).

The thing to do is to convey to her the seriousness of this issue. You should not have to apologize for this need; and she should be willing to accomodate it.
BTW perhaps the way to frame it is around her being in shape as opposed to being unattractive. That's a lot easier pill to swallow. Besides, let's face it- how do you know if you wouldn't be really into her if she had a great body?

Posted By: unwritten Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 08:48 PM
1) I stick by my opinion that you need to be O&H with her about how great this need is for you, and how unhappy you are to not have it met. She won't take this seriously if she doesn't know how serious it is. If you have been married for many years and did not give her any indication this was important to you, one conversation where you were admittedly not fully O&H with her is not going to relay that information. Continued work on the MB program TOGETHER will though. Have you read His Needs Her Needs? Has she? This would be a good starting point.

2) I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Alias's post about comparisons. Even if your wife works out every day for 2 hours and has a killer body, there WILL be younger/prettier/more fit girls out there for you to turn your head at, if you want to. (Just as there will be wealthier men for her to turn her head at, if she wanted to).
Posted By: wilderness Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 09:47 PM
Important point on #2:

Absolutely correct. I would also like to add, however, that if his wife works out, gets a killer body, works hard to improve her style and presentation, etc...AND if she is meeting his other needs it is almost impossible for OP to not be attracted to her. He seems resigned to the fact that he will never be attracted to her. IMO that is most certainly NOT the case. Hard work really can make a HUGE difference in this area. I'm living proof of this as I am not a naturally great looking guy, but when I get in shape and put my mind to focusing on improving my attraction, women go from avoiding me to approaching me all the time. Different gender, but the same principle most certainly applies. I've seen this a million times at my gym with people that stick to an exercise plan. It's also great for one's health, energy, and emotional well being independent of the marriage as well.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/01/13 10:10 PM
Good stuff. I know I am on the right site and getting good advice. I will keep you updated, but I think I need to somehow get my wife on board with this program more than just filling out the questionnaire and glancing through the book.

Will keep you posted.
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/02/13 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by ETW
Does anyone know how long it takes for spending time together before I start changing how attractive I feel she is? So far, nothing has changed, and although she says she wants to look better for me, she has no interest in doing a real workout separately or together. She brought up again that she was surprised that looks were that important to me, and that she really thought I was "above" that.

I don't know if this is going to make any difference at all. Getting very depressed over this.


The way to tackle this isn't quite rocket science... and it isn't going to turn around instantly.

You very likely both have very low LB$ balances, as evidenced by your low attraction to your wife, and her lack of enthusiasm in meeting your needs.


So, what you will want to do, is key in on working on your PA need while fulfilling the necassary UA requirements to reestablish Romantic Love in your marriage.

Find some physical activities that will both increase fitness, while also being mutually enjoyable. Look in your local paper, and find some ballroom dancing classes to take together (or salsa, or swing dancing... you get the point).

Set aside and schedule some time to take your wife shopping. This provides; UA opportunity, PoJA practice, and the opportunity to help her dress in a way that better addresses your PA EN.

Be sure to COMPLIMENT your wife's progress. This can meet her need for Admiration and/or Affection, and will help motivate her to continue to try to meet this need.
**edit**
Posted By: Fireproof Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/05/13 11:25 AM
A reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is help others with Marriage Builders concepts. If you can help do this we welcome your posts. If not, please refrain from posting.
***EDIT***

Do not repost when advice has been removed by a moderator.
Posted By: Ariel Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/05/13 02:07 PM
Email addresses are not allowed on this forum. Do not put yours back in your signature.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/07/13 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by MrAlias
...the only way that may happen for you is you find a way up there in your head to view her differently. This is going to sound contrary to some of the advice but don�t trust that simply spending UA time and having RC is going to be the entire recipe you need to improve your situation. {Mr Alias ducks the stream of objects hurled his way } Based on what you've said I think you need more than that for it to change.

x 2

Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/12/13 03:52 PM
Posting an update here. First, now that I am more in tune with the concepts on this site, I find myself much more aware of why I feel how I feel at different times. I can't say that our new found leisure time together has changed my physical attraction to her, however, I now have massive guilt associated with my feelings of discontent.

I have noticed that one of the triggers for how I feel is when I receive a compliment or attention from any female who I consider attractive. Any type of flirt sent my way is bad news that serves as a reminder that I could have done better.

So at this stage of the game, I have decided to simply be aware of my feelings, and stay out of any situation that might lead down that path. I read some pretty good advise on the board, I know the changes need to take place in my head, as I said before though, I might just have to accept this as an unmet need that will always go unmet.

In summary, the time together has not changed how I view my wife, although we certainly have become better friends. I am really missing the weekend competition that I have given up (my off on my own time).

Might be my last post here, final step is acceptance.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/12/13 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
So at this stage of the game, I have decided to simply be aware of my feelings, and stay out of any situation that might lead down that path. I read some pretty good advise on the board, I know the changes need to take place in my head, as I said before though, I might just have to accept this as an unmet need that will always go unmet.

In summary, the time together has not changed how I view my wife, although we certainly have become better friends. I am really missing the weekend competition that I have given up (my off on my own time).

Might be my last post here, final step is acceptance.

I completely disagree with this assessment. Guilt and acceptance will not last for long. That is not the glue that will keep a marriage together. The glue is ROMANTIC LOVE. And you have to go through these steps for several months until that happens. You have not done that. Please follow Dr Harley's advice and continue spending UA time with her - 20-25 hours per week - until you have exceeded the lovebank threshhold. You have only got your toe wet. Keep going...

Quote
Any type of flirt sent my way is bad news that serves as a reminder that I could have done better.

And this is part of the problem. What kind of environment are you in where women flirt with a married man?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/12/13 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
In summary, the time together has not changed how I view my wife, although we certainly have become better friends. I am really missing the weekend competition that I have given up (my off on my own time).

You have done this exercise for a couple of weeks. You arrived here on February the 9th and didn't even start the exercise until very recently. Do you believe that dating couples fall in love in a couple of weeks? No, they do not.

NO ONE told you that you would fall madly in love in 2 weeks.

You are applying unrealistic expectations to the exercise and then declaring it a FAIL when nothing happens. You are just sabotaging your efforts.
Posted By: catwhit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/12/13 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
Posting an update here. First, now that I am more in tune with the concepts on this site, I find myself much more aware of why I feel how I feel at different times. I can't say that our new found leisure time together has changed my physical attraction to her, however, I now have massive guilt associated with my feelings of discontent.

I have noticed that one of the triggers for how I feel is when I receive a compliment or attention from any female who I consider attractive. Any type of flirt sent my way is bad news that serves as a reminder that I could have done better.

So at this stage of the game, I have decided to simply be aware of my feelings, and stay out of any situation that might lead down that path. I read some pretty good advise on the board, I know the changes need to take place in my head, as I said before though, I might just have to accept this as an unmet need that will always go unmet.

In summary, the time together has not changed how I view my wife, although we certainly have become better friends. I am really missing the weekend competition that I have given up (my off on my own time).

Might be my last post here, final step is acceptance.

ETW, I encourage you to keep posting here. You may surprise yourself.

And it is a BIG step that you realize you have been allowing yourself to accept flirtatious behaviour from other women. Stopping this will prevent the "contrast effect", which is very unfair to your W, and will have kept you stuck in not allowing her to meet your AS need.
Posted By: 54321Hope Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/19/13 01:56 AM
Having been told that myself, I can tell you it is crushing to learn your husband thinks that you aren't attractive and worst of all, has NEVER been attractive to him .

**edit**

I can't forget it and it makes me want to stop living a lie and forget trying to save whatever it was we had. Very very discouraging.
Posted By: MrAlias Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/19/13 12:03 PM
t/j

Originally Posted by 54321Hope
Having been told that myself, I can tell you it is crushing to learn your husband thinks that you aren't attractive and worst of all, has NEVER been attractive to him .

I can't forget it and it makes me want to stop living a lie and forget trying to save whatever it was we had. Very very discouraging.


Hope, are these things he said while in the midst of his affairs? Please keep in mind that fogged out waywards change history and say things that are in no way true.
I agree with melody...Shame on you for misleading her....If your honest with her then you may find something out about her that she has been afraid to tell you..
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/22/13 08:52 PM
Me again. I am not sure what you mean by misleading her, are you referring to the fact that I "lead her on" when we dated? I do have to say that it is all very ironic to me that the typical female will get quite upset that men are shallow, then when someone puts aside this shallow nature to make a decision that he feels is really for the best intentions and in fact honorable, the typical female lashes out that I mislead her. It is a no win.

I do love my wife, and the activities we are doing together is helping to build on that feeling. At this point in time, we are settling back into the same old routine with the exception of spending a substantial amount of quality time together. As I said, I know that I have more respect fer her as a person, and I love her maybe more now, but I really need her to look prettier.

No amount of exercise will change the fact that her bone structure at the hips is about ten inches wider than her shoulders. It is just the shape she was genetically programmed to have.

Looking back, I wish the emotional needs test was available when we were dating, I would have been able to realize there is no shame in being shallow, and having a high need for a pretty partner.
Originally Posted by ETW
Me again. I am not sure what you mean by misleading her, are you referring to the fact that I "lead her on" when we dated? I do have to say that it is all very ironic to me that the typical female will get quite upset that men are shallow, then when someone puts aside this shallow nature to make a decision that he feels is really for the best intentions and in fact honorable, the typical female lashes out that I mislead her. It is a no win.

I do love my wife, and the activities we are doing together is helping to build on that feeling. At this point in time, we are settling back into the same old routine with the exception of spending a substantial amount of quality time together. As I said, I know that I have more respect fer her as a person, and I love her maybe more now, but I really need her to look prettier.

No amount of exercise will change the fact that her bone structure at the hips is about ten inches wider than her shoulders. It is just the shape she was genetically programmed to have.

Looking back, I wish the emotional needs test was available when we were dating, I would have been able to realize there is no shame in being shallow, and having a high need for a pretty partner.

As you fall more in love with your wife, her bone structure will matter less to you.

It is not shallow to want to be able to find our mates attractive. It is an emotional need that just IS. It's something that makes a person feel great when they have it and frustrated when they don't have it.

My H is kind of the same way. He's a little "hippy" and will probably always be hippy even as a leaner person, but now that he's lost his excess weight, has an attractive haircut, and treats me like I'm gold, that little structure "anomaly" matters very little to me. I have a very high need for my spouse to be attractive.

Does your wife look attractive to you in other ways? Do you like the way her hair is cut? Does she wear clothes that make the most of her looks?
Posted By: living_well Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/23/13 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
No amount of exercise will change the fact that her bone structure at the hips is about ten inches wider than her shoulders. It is just the shape she was genetically programmed to have.

Um I am not sure I buy this, I have very wide hip bones but you would never see that by looking at me, I only know because the midwives explained my very easy births that way. I'm sure she is genetically programmed to carry excess weight around her hips but nobody has to be overweight. Very unhealthy too.

Originally Posted by ETW
there is no shame in being shallow, and having a high need for a pretty partner.


But it isn't shallow! Having a high need for a pretty partner is completely valid and may have been something that your wife found attractive in you.
Posted By: happyheart Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/24/13 04:17 PM
It is very uncommon that the widest part of the hips is the hipbone. In almost every case it is caused by the woman's tendency to gather fatty tissue on tgat area. Which is not all bad by the way. Women with broad shoulders and narrow hips have other problems with their body shape.

Allthough this can be improved quite a bit by sport, it takes a lot of determination and much hardship to keep it up. So please do everything to make sport a nice exciting experience for her. Remember, she is just starting.

However, there is a faster way to have an attractive wife, than torturing her with diet etc. rightaway. There are ways to dress, which will make her bodily imperfections virtually invisible.

Small shoulders disappear by dressing them in blazers with preformed shoulders, by putting on puffed sleeves, by addin a contrasting horizontal stripe over the shoulders (think star trek), or by shoulder pads.
wide hips become invisible by wearing tunics that fall dlightly over the hip, or by wearing a-line skirts, long elegant cardigans, etc.

Why not take your wife shopping and only buying the clothes that the two of you both like on her.

Nobody wants to believe me, when I say I have to wear hip-flattering clothes, or that I cannot wear certain styles because of my broad shoulders (I look like Arnold Schwarzenegger when I wear clothes with a horizontal stripe on the Torso). Everyone considers me slim and they never notice these flaws, that I see in the mirror. You just have to know what flatters your figure.

Of course purists may say that changing clothes does not alter the body really. But it makes a huge difference if your wife is a pleasure to look at.

http://SearchWarp.com/swa523016.htm
http://searchwarp.com/swa513295.htm

http://searchwarp.com/swa510989.htm

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BP83WRO/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1364124570&sr=8-5&pi=SL75

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008SBFGA2/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1364136608&sr=8-15&pi=SL75
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/24/13 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I do love my wife, and the activities we are doing together is helping to build on that feeling. At this point in time, we are settling back into the same old routine with the exception of spending a substantial amount of quality time together. As I said, I know that I have more respect fer her as a person, and I love her maybe more now, but I really need her to look prettier.

Just spending time together is not the goal. The goal is to meet the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. The goal is not to "respect her more" but to create romantic love. I don't see that you are taking this very seriously and are just pencil whipping this exercise. It is like flopping around on the floor and then calling it "exercise." You have to do this correctly or it doesn't work. And I don't mean doing it a couple of weeks. It takes at least 8 weeks to start feeling a difference.

Quote
No amount of exercise will change the fact that her bone structure at the hips is about ten inches wider than her shoulders. It is just the shape she was genetically programmed to have.

But you don't have an emotional need for slim hips so specifics like this are not relevant to the goal.
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/24/13 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
At this point in time, we are settling back into the same old routine with the exception of spending a substantial amount of quality time together.

Can you please tell us more about what ypu mean by "same old routine"?
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/29/13 06:52 PM
The same old routine meaning, my eyes still are wandering. There is a lot of truth on this board, and I fully appreciate my situation now from a different perspective. But, even now with the increased time spent together, I am still hopelessly unattracted to her on a physical level.

The fact that her hips are so wide and her upper body is very small in comparison is relevant because it has always been the number one issue I have had in how she looks, it will not change with exercise, just how she is shaped. I simply cant get past it.

Now, she always has done a good job on the other ENs I have, which is why we have a decent marriage outside of my unmet need for PA. I have and still do love her, just not in a sexual way. Working through the questionnaire, we agree that I am meeting her most important needs, and that she really does not need an attractive husband to fill up her LBs, we have always been good friends and almost never argue, she and I communicate very well and I do enjoy hearing about her activities away from me, all important to her ENs.

Our exercising together is having zero effect on her appearance, and I removed the one piece of activity that allowed me to cope, competitive running and cycling, in order to follow the Doctor's advice to spend more rec time together. I really need my competitive exercise to help me cope with what is missing in my life.

Recently, we had our photo taken of our family, and we had a few shots of just the two of us, looking at them, I would say the average Joe would proclaim, "That's his wife??"
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/29/13 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
The same old routine meaning, my eyes still are wandering. There is a lot of truth on this board, and I fully appreciate my situation now from a different perspective. But, even now with the increased time spent together, I am still hopelessly unattracted to her on a physical level.

The fact that her hips are so wide and her upper body is very small in comparison is relevant because it has always been the number one issue I have had in how she looks, it will not change with exercise, just how she is shaped. I simply cant get past it.

Now, she always has done a good job on the other ENs I have, which is why we have a decent marriage outside of my unmet need for PA. I have and still do love her, just not in a sexual way. Working through the questionnaire, we agree that I am meeting her most important needs, and that she really does not need an attractive husband to fill up her LBs, we have always been good friends and almost never argue, she and I communicate very well and I do enjoy hearing about her activities away from me, all important to her ENs.

Our exercising together is having zero effect on her appearance, and I removed the one piece of activity that allowed me to cope, competitive running and cycling, in order to follow the Doctor's advice to spend more rec time together. I really need my competitive exercise to help me cope with what is missing in my life.

Recently, we had our photo taken of our family, and we had a few shots of just the two of us, looking at them, I would say the average Joe would proclaim, "That's his wife??"


ETW-

I really like this post. Would you consider sending it in an email to Dr. Harley with a copy of your latest photo?

I'm not sure if he's an "Average Joe" and he most likely won't comment on your wife's attractiveness, but he may have more helpful advice. smile

I admire your willingness to work on your marriage even though you feel like you will always be missing the most important thing. Stick around, and keep learning. We were in a very similar position over a year ago. Oh, what a year. Thanks to MB, we are learning so much, and have met the Romantic Threshold together. I STILL need to improve my PA.

DQ



Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/29/13 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
The same old routine meaning, my eyes still are wandering. Did you ever read my husband's thread which someone else linked for you?

There is a lot of truth on this board, and I fully appreciate my situation now from a different perspective. But, even now with the increased time spent together, I am still hopelessly unattracted to her on a physical level.

The fact that her hips are so wide and her upper body is very small in comparison is relevant because it has always been the number one issue I have had in how she looks, it will not change with exercise, just how she is shaped. I simply cant get past it. I am not sure that I agree with this. See if she would be interested in checking out the following program on q/v/c m/e/t/a/m/o/r/p/h/o/s/i/s. The outside of my thighs pulled in so much that I had to change to a different exercise. My husband could SEE and FEEL my form change. But it takes a lot of motivation, which your wife may lack, especially if she thinks like YOU DO, that she CAN NEVER be physically attractive enough in your eyes.

Now, she always has done a good job on the other ENs I have, which is why we have a decent marriage outside of my unmet need for PA. I have and still do love her, just not in a sexual way. I understand that you perceive her body as flawed, but when dealing with sexual attraction issues, but I think it would be smart to go ahead and check your testosterone levels. Working through the questionnaire, we agree that I am meeting her most important needs, and that she really does not need an attractive husband to fill up her LBs, we have always been good friends and almost never argue, she and I communicate very well and I do enjoy hearing about her activities away from me, all important to her ENs.

Our exercising together is having zero effect on her appearance, and I removed the one piece of activity that allowed me to cope, competitive running and cycling, in order to follow the Doctor's advice to spend more rec time together. I really need my competitive exercise to help me cope with what is missing in my life.

Recently, we had our photo taken of our family, and we had a few shots of just the two of us, looking at them, I would say the average Joe would proclaim, "That's his wife??" I'm not sure if you have given her SPECIFIC things that she could do to meet your need for PA. My husband had never specifically requested to me, until recently, so I never knew FOR SURE what was important to him. I have earned LB deposits for things like smiling, keeping my hair long, and the right color of lipstick. Now when I do those things, he knows that he has been taken into consideration. Before when I did them, he would not count them as deposits, because he hadn't told exactly what he wanted. ]

The more my husband expected me to improve my PA to MOTIVATE him to stop wandering his eyes,the more I wanted a different husband. My value in his eyes had been reduced to a god-given body which he didn't like. I began to fear growing old with him and silently considered trading him for someone with different emotional needs. He had already told me that because of my body type, it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to meet his need for PA- an exercise in futility. I knew from past experience that there were others who found me PA enough and would love to have an imperfect, passionate woman, but the man I married had made it clear to me that HE NEVER DID. Please try to handle this in ways that increase her motivation, not decrease it. I hope that there is something of value in what I have shared.

I believe that you genuinely want a happy marriage and want to love your wife. Yep, with all the truth here, Marriage Builders is the place to learn how to make it happen. And by the way, please let your wife know that she will end up with a better specimen of a partner too. Your brain will be oh, so attractive.... DEEP, LOVING & HOT! That's what many women value. whistle


DidntQuit
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/29/13 09:51 PM
ETW:

It is hard to believe your wife's hips are 10 inches wider than her shoulders and her photo would be a shocking comparison if she is within a healthy BMI range.

Also, it's very generous of you to call it her bone structure, but unless she has a skeletal deformity - and I doubt that is the case if it is that severe and she can still walk - you are "sugar coating".

I have never seen a pear shaped woman with a severe shape that would cause her husband such disappointment who is not also overweight.

Perhaps the regulars on this board could coach you how to approach the general weight loss topic, but absolutely leave out any references at all to her hips in the conversation. Just approach it in a general way accordng to their recommended method. You are not the first person who ever wished your spouse would lose weight.

I have a pear shaped figure, but within a healthy BMI (even at the upper range of healthy), I have a whole different appearance than when still carrying weight from having children. I notice appreciative glances thrown my way from strangers - quite a difference from 20 pounds and 600 miles ago!

At anywhere within a healthy BMI range (25 or less), a pear shaped woman can be attractive and find clothing that flatters. It can be much less severe and less noticable at a healthy weight.

If she IS in a healthy weight range, then I guess this would qualify for "in sickness and in health", but she would be the first I've ever seen in that category.
Posted By: Openeyes11 Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 03/29/13 10:46 PM
ETW. Is your wife become more interested in improving her PA? What does she think of what she has seen so far about marriage builders? Has She read His Needs Her Needs? Is she willing? Have you?
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 04/01/13 09:50 PM
DidntQuit:

Yours is so similar to my situation it is scary. I did research yours on the site, very similar, which is why I am glad I stuck to my original thought NOT to tell her I never found her physically attractive, and really more accurately, attractive enough. I know that there is someone out there that would find her 100% of what they are looking for.

Testosterone might be an issue in that I think mine has always been high, I have a very strong sex drive, but no satisfying outlet, which is why I have used my athletic competitions fill the void. Honestly, I have never had an interest in foreplay, I want to, just not with her.

I think I value your input the most. My wife actually has a normal BMI, but any extra weight is located on the bottom half and is heavy with cellulite. It might have been inaccurate to describe her hips as wide in as much as her upper body is very, ver narrow. Almost like two different people are attached. Sorry to put it that way.

I am interested in how I would motivate her to be more interested in her looks, she is still with the opinion that looks are for the shallow, and I shouldn't value her on her looks.

Last point, I have shared too much here and would be afraid that she might end up reading this, she will certainly know it is about her with the type of details I provided. With that in mind, we have not gone onto this site together.
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 04/03/13 08:44 PM


I am going to defer to Dr. Harley on all of this. Please, please, please email the radio show. Please do it NOW. Remind him that he already posted to you on the forum. Send your recent photo and these last 2 posts. They will give him the info he needs. Within a short while of talking with Dr. Harley, he can steer you in the right direction. He will help you understand how to get your wife on board. The goal is for you BOTH to feel happy and satisfied. Include your phone #. You NEED HELP with this. [color]

After you email, please come back and let me know it's done.

Then, I will let you know my specific thoughts about what you posted. Don't worry for right now, about her finding your thread. You are here because you have a delicate problem and you are trying to get help. She can't fault you for that. You are anonymous.
Posted By: MrAlias Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 04/04/13 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by DidntQuit
Don't worry for right now, about her finding your thread.

If she does find this forum and you don't want her to find you ... you can always ask the Moderators to delete all of your posts.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/10/13 06:00 PM
Providing a final update. We have spent time in recreation together, light work outs, hikes, and strolls.

Nothing has changed. I don't think I will ever bridge the gap and find her attractive, and I am hitting a wall. This one issue has festered over the years, and I am ready to cry uncle.

I read someone's comments that they knew that this approach worked for women to learn to find men attractive, but we're surprised to hear Dr. Hartley give this advise to a man and wondered if it would work.

It didn't for me. I re-read my first entry, and I am still feeling the same way now.

It is a deal breaker for me, time for me to not only set her free, but to find what my heart is literally crying for each night as I fall to sleep.
Posted By: markos Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/10/13 08:02 PM
21 posts and you are throwing in the towel?

Have you bothered to listen to Dr. Harley's radio show, or is that too much effort?
Posted By: markos Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/10/13 08:05 PM
Did you stop looking at other women?
Posted By: Prisca Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/10/13 08:10 PM
Who's the Other Woman?


You're killing me here. I agree with Prisca, but just in case you've not been looking at other pastures for a while, don't you think you should be giving these hikes, strolls, and light work outs a little more than 6 weeks to make a judgement about whether your wife "deserves" your commitment? It really bothered me a while back when you pretty much presented yourself as a super good-looking man that deserves sympathy for the fact he is married to such an inferior-looking version of womanhood.

Anyway, a suggestion that can be implemented if she is willing. When I took a bodybuilding class for women many years ago, something happened within 2 months: My shoulders squared up and became just a little bit broader. This has been a change that is permanent. If the real problem is that her shoulders are too sloped and narrow compared to the rest of her body, then if she is willing to do dumbbell shoulder presses and work on lateral raises, then she is highly likely to improve her shoulder girth and improve her overall proportions and posture.


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/10/13 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I read someone's comments that they knew that this approach worked for women to learn to find men attractive, but we're surprised to hear Dr. Hartley give this advise to a man and wondered if it would work.

But that person has no idea what he/she is talking about and is not a licensed psychologist who has long experience with this. Dr HARLEY said it would work. What are this other posters credentials? How many marriages has he/she saved?

Quote
It didn't for me. I re-read my first entry, and I am still feeling the same way now.

Nothing will work because you don't want it to work.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/10/13 08:52 PM
Quote
ETW:

I've had several cases like yours where a husband never did find his wife attractive, even when they were dating, but married her for a variety of reasons, usually because she was pregnant. My approach is to help her make as many Love Bank deposits as possible in ways that do not require physical attractiveness, mostly with recreational companionship. My standard assignment is for them to exercise together regularly, and to be together for all leisure and recreational activities. One husband who I counseled, and followed my plan even though he didn't think it would work, called me from his car one day to tell me that for the first time in his relationship with his wife, he was in love. He couldn't wait to be with her, and he found her to be very physically attractive.

While it's true that physical appearance can make massive Love Bank deposits with someone who is not in love, being in love can make an otherwise plain looking person look physically attractive.

So in summary, I would suggest that you focus your attention on exercising together (which would help shape her up), and don't do anything recreational without her. But when you exercise, avoid having other women, especially attractive women, exercising with you. And remember my cardinal rule: 15 hours of undivided attention every week spent in meeting the emotional needs of affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, and recreational companionship. I wouldn't tell her that you don't find her attractive, though. Instead, I would invite her to join you in these activities that you feel would bring you closer together.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2705536#Post2705536

I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting your wife get into bodybuilding. I took that class so I could get strong enough to pull open the glass doors at the university, not for bodybuilding per se. I only worked up to about 2 pound weights on the shoulders. It's not a sweaty workout I'm suggesting. This is just one, focused thing that could help in the PA area, while you read and reread what Dr. Harley and MelodyLane has posted to you.

It reminds me of a story I've told a few times. At a place where I worked a long time ago, the principle investigator was hiring for a new research assistant. He finally was about to chose one and wanted us to meet her before he made the final decision. We each and every one talked amongst ourselves about meeting her. We each and every one said the first thought we had "she is one of the ugliest people we had ever seen." We didn't tell the PI this for it had no bearing on whether she was qualified. What happened next for me was amazing. Over the next few months of working with her, her genuine care and positive personality, her work ethics and open faced smile turned her into one of the most beautiful persons I have ever met. I began to see the beauty in her face and form. I never even thought she was ugly after that: I just couldn't see any more that she was ugly. Mainly because she wasn't ugly.



Posted By: markos Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/10/13 10:13 PM
Okay, I've seen Dr. Harley's post to you now. You need to give it longer: you need to give it long enough to fall in love with your wife, and then see if you find her attractive.

And of course in order to do this, you need to avoid letting other women make love bank deposits. You need to eliminate the contrast effect.

If you don't take these steps, MelodyLane is right: nothing will work when you don't want it to work.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/13/13 09:04 PM
In April you said: "We have spent time in recreation together, light work outs, hikes, and strolls."

It is now May.

You seem well versed in working out/athletics. You surely didn't expect light strolls for this short amount of time would have an effect on her appearance - so why are already saying it didn't work?

You're going to have to up the intensity of these joint activities, like registering for a mud run together (and training for) or a 10k, etc.

IF I WERE HER, and only do this with Dr. Harley's concurrence and assistance, I would want to know specifically that this was becoming a challenge for you so I could either up my workout intensity, try a shake or lo-carb program of some type or look into a liposuction (it's much cheaper than a divorce) rather than a spouse paternalistically assuming I couldn't "handle" the truth and destroying my children's stable home to protect my feelings.

I also wonder if her initial comment about looks being shallow is just what came out of her mouth because she was embarrassed, knowing it was something she could not fulfill - rather than being her actual opinion.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 05/13/13 10:00 PM
One more thought, ETW. You wanted to "find what my heart is literally crying for each night as I fall to sleep."

No guarantees on the beautiful woman you find not being a whited sepulcher.

How would your heart cry out for companionship each night as you fell asleep with a beautiful shrew, possibly who distained your children on the weekend you had custody?

How would you feel about your children crying themselves to sleep across town each night for the daddy who wasn't there? When my sister's husband left her, their daughter cried every night for almost a year.

Greener grass doesn't always taste better.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/20/13 12:11 PM
Providing an update, and I would like to hear from a female perspective.

I am still not attracted to my wife physically. We have in fact grown together over the past year, and moreso since we started recreational activities together. But the closeness is a deep friendship and not passionate in a sexual or physical way. I can't seem to make myself find her attractive. For me, I was in a position where I was a bit trapped when I proposed, I knew she was not attractive enough to satisfy my need to have someone who makes me feel proud, not embarrassed.

So here is the question as I just learn to live with the consequences of my choice.

Ladies, if you knew your husband never found you attractive to the point he was 100% drawn to you in admiration of your look, would you be ok with a deep friendship where your husband does not chase you?
Posted By: DidntQuit Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/20/13 01:35 PM
ETW:

How would you feel about getting your testosterone checked?

How would you feel about emailing the radio show?

Posted By: Openeyes11 Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/20/13 01:55 PM
Does your wife smile when you take her on dates?

So you don't finish your dates with SF? Instead you go without?
Posted By: MrAlias Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/20/13 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
For me, I was in a position where I was a bit trapped when I proposed, I knew she was not attractive enough to satisfy my need to have someone who makes me feel proud, not embarrassed.

So here is the question as I just learn to live with the consequences of my choice.

I am way confused by your choice in using the word "trapped".

So you aren't proud to have your W on your arm. Is that a reflection of how other people view your W or how you believe other people view her? DJ. If she were really hot but a really horrible person to be around do you think then you�d be proud? You see hardly anyone is going to judge your W based on her looks especially if she is friendly and polite to them. Not everyone has a need for physical attractiveness and it shouldn�t matter to them as it is YOUR W we�re talking about.

This isn�t or shouldn�t be based on how other people view her or your perception of how others view her. This should be about how you feel about your physical attractiveness to her not your vanity.

As far as your question this isn�t about other ladies and how they�d feel. They can�t answer for her. This is all about how your W would feel if you asked her that question. Maybe she knows she isn�t the prize you want but she knows you love her and she loves you and she�s quite content to live a life of being close to someone without the physical attractions being there.

Posted By: markos Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/20/13 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
Providing an update, and I would like to hear from a female perspective.

...

Ladies, if you knew your husband never found you attractive to the point he was 100% drawn to you in admiration of your look, would you be ok with a deep friendship where your husband does not chase you?

That's not what we do here.

Are you following the actual plan to restore the feeling of romantic love in your marriage? 25-30 hours a week together meeting each other's most important emotional needs?

We are not here to help you learn to live with a bad situation. There is a defined plan here called Marriage Builders provided by clinical psychologist Dr. Willard Harley. What you need to do is restore romantic love to your marriage, then see what that does about the matter of physical attractiveness.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/20/13 06:02 PM
Do you have female friends?
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/20/13 09:35 PM
I do have one female friend, but I would not share this type of dialogue with her. I have never shared any of what is inside my head and how I feel with anyone outside of this anonymous forum.

I honestly think my wife and I do have a romantic love, just not a passionate one that involves my desiring her physically. We are like an older couple who are companions, not lovers. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that, I just wish I could turn off the primal side of my brain. Someone mentioned getting my testosterone checked. I had a physical done a while back and I guess I am actually on the high side, doc says that is a very good thing and that mostly he sees someone at my age with much lower free counts.

This just might be my burden to bear for this lifetime. I am honorable and would not cheat. I am smart and avoid the obvious come ons from strange women, and I am careful to avoid keeping women as friends. Maybe you women can pull it off, but I know it would certainly put me into harms way if I find them attractive.

I don't know if anything more can be done here, I don't think anyone here has an answer for me other than keep following the plan. We are and it keeps me and my wife close as friends, but I know at this point it won't make me see her face or body as beautiful. My head is just not wired that way.

I am surprised that on this site, there isn't at least one other guy in the same spot with something really helpful to say, even if it is just "deal with it, this is what you signed up for mate".

Whenever i looked at or thought about my wife, it was only a small part of me that admired her physique. When she got dressed up, she definitely knew how to look appealing to my eyes. But, at night, falling asleep, none of that dress up abd makeup was there.

But what i always saw when i viewed her, was the woman who nearly passed out when i proposed to her, the partner who made my house into our Home, the pregnant woman who i went with to every baby doctors appointment, the kindness she had for our pets, the sweaty and exhausted wife who endured child birth, the best mommy our son could have ever dreamed of having, and most importantly, my wife.....My Partner For Life.

My passion for That Woman has never waned.

What else do you see when you view your wife?

LTL
Well, ETW, I'm not sure what to say. I can't imagine dating and marrying someone that Ididn't was hot, beautiful, or attractive. I know that's not really helpful. But I also know that as you build a closer connection to someone, they do become more attractive
Are you using porn?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/21/13 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I honestly think my wife and I do have a romantic love, just not a passionate one that involves my desiring her physically.

That is an oxymoron. The definition of romantic love is a passionate desire. And I don't believe you are following the program which is why you are not in love with her.

How about writing out your entire UA schedule with her for this week to give us an idea of your timelines and activities?
Posted By: Livy Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/21/13 05:20 PM
I have found this discussion so enlightening. Thank you to the OP for being so open and honest, and thanks to the MB crew for high lightening some many interesting points.
Posted By: happyheart Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/21/13 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
I do have one female friend, but I would not share this type of dialogue with her. I have never shared any of what is inside my head and how I feel with anyone outside of this anonymous forum.

I honestly think my wife and I do have a romantic love, just not a passionate one that involves my desiring her physically. We are like an older couple who are companions, not lovers. Maybe there is nothing wrong with that, I just wish I could turn off the primal side of my brain. Someone mentioned getting my testosterone checked. I had a physical done a while back and I guess I am actually on the high side, doc says that is a very good thing and that mostly he sees someone at my age with much lower free counts.

This just might be my burden to bear for this lifetime. I am honorable and would not cheat. I am smart and avoid the obvious come ons from strange women, and I am careful to avoid keeping women as friends. Maybe you women can pull it off, but I know it would certainly put me into harms way if I find them attractive.

I don't know if anything more can be done here, I don't think anyone here has an answer for me other than keep following the plan. We are and it keeps me and my wife close as friends, but I know at this point it won't make me see her face or body as beautiful. My head is just not wired that way.

I am surprised that on this site, there isn't at least one other guy in the same spot with something really helpful to say, even if it is just "deal with it, this is what you signed up for mate".
Some factors that can negatively influence how you view your wife:

- Once you have chosen a mate, the competition is off. Maybe you are the kind of person that buys a car and is still looking if he has missed the better offer months after the deal? This is a recipe to make yourself unhappy.
- you should therefore stop looking at and comparing your wife to other women, on tv in the fitness studio and at work and in town.
- you participate in sport competitions. Unless they are competitions for people over 80, there will be many women around who are extemely physically active. In your position this is a bad idea. You do not need a competition. You can compete with yourself.
- if your female friend is better looking than your wife, you should drop her.
-you seem to have a really high sense of entitlement. Allthough many people have some narcissistic tendencies, too many are unhealthy. You have stated that your wife deserves a man who desires her. To me that sounds more like: I deserve someone who looks better than my average looking wife... and sure, it would only be good for my wife. If your wife had been fantastic looking 25 years ago, chances are, she would not be looking as good any more. You would have the same problem. Also if you "take" a new wife, you will have the same problem in a few years. What if your fantastic-looking wife would have gotten breast cancer? Would you then leave her because she had a scar? Do you expect your wife to leave you if you lose your hair? Would you feel it would be ok for a woman to marry a balding man and leave him after 20 years because she could not take it anymore to be seen with a bald man? (sorry andre agassi).
Is it OK for your wife to live with a man who does not have the kindness and strangth of character she thought he had?
- Yes, MB encourages people to change for their spouses. And the emotional need for a man to have a wife who takes care of herself and to look as good as she can for him is not seen as shallow. However, this does not mean that it is OK to not be a bit more honest with your wife, who does not know what the chances are that she will be left by a man, who yearns for sex with 20-year-olds with a tiny but. You are absolutely right that being too blunt here would be devastating, but at the same time, it is a subject that should be adressed.
I would recommend that you give it some good thought, what it is that you expect from her exactly. I mean in realistic and measurable goals.

I am impressed with your honesty and that is a good thing to bring into your relationship. Maybe it would be a good idea to get wome counseling with the Harleys, who can also talk with your wife. I assume though, that it needs work from both sides.

A few questions remain:
- are you still looking at other women?
- are you looking at magazines/porn?
- have you tried looking at the world though the eyes of others, really putting themselves in their shoes?
- are you intimate with your wife on a regular basis and in a way that is satisfying for both of you?
- do you avoid solo-sex and thinking of other women and concentrate and redirect all of your sexual energy on/to your wife?


You seem eloquent and intelligent. I am sure you could find a way out of this which does not inclued exchanging your wife. It can be done, but she must be informed and you need someone to hold your feet to the fire. You need to resolve this fast, because you have not come further by trying to do it alone.

God bless,

Happyheart
Posted By: Godloves Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 09/30/13 04:39 PM
RE:ETW

I've been reading your posts as I have a low level of attraction to my spouse. I think of it as, I was young and naive when I married (25yrs old...but he really swept me off my feet with saranade's at 2:30 in the morning singing with his guitar and candles outside my window. Roses and dinner cooked when I came home from work. I came home one day and he had painted my apartment (I had mentioned in passing I'd like to change the color!). I could go on and on and on. But then after the wedding, it all stopped and he got mean and angry. I do feel tricked. Would I have married him only based on his looks? No, I would not have but because he was filling my love tank so much, that overtook that negative until after the wedding when he became mean and angry. I do feel betrayed. It's like I was tricked. Now I don't feel any attraction. But anyway, it's not about me. I enjoyed your story and the posts so much but need an update.

How is it going now? Have you told her the truth or are you finding her PA?

If I was your wife, I'd want to know the truth. Nobody wants to be with someone who doesn't love them completely. It could end up horribly or she could get serious with working out and make over techniques- weight loss, lasik, make-up, minor cosmetic enhancements. You may have to take that chance. I disagree with the advice not to tell her. She may be hiding the fact that she doesn't find you attractive either. Who knows?

Posted By: Lions215 Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 10/03/13 06:49 PM
I'm married going on 19 years, my husband is in a wheelchair, physically paralyzed from the waist down and he has a colostomy bag , I don't know, you say your embarrassed by your wife's body and people seeing her with you. I know your being honest and you take this all quite seriously but forgive me for laughing, I can't help it. I too am considered very attractive but I guess I just don't care what people think about who I love. I love him, I couldn't be embarrassed by him, maybe by some of the stupid things he does but not the way he looks .I have marriage problems too and in our case more then the average marriage has to deal with. What your saying is you never loved your wife and I think most people on here at one time did love their spouse and they want to regain that love with them. I think your saying you never did so how can I gain what I never had... and to that answer I don't know. But I do think somehow you think your wife is a reflection of you or an extension of you and you don't like that extension to look so foreign to the beautiful you that you think you are and have tried so hard to work on. I don't see my husband as an extension of myself. He is who he is and I am who I am. When were together it doesn't bother me how others view us, they may think it strange to see a beautiful woman with a disabled man but is that my problem? Only if I make it my own. I don't feel insecure like you when it comes to that and I think all your issues stem from insecurity. The workouts. competitions, being handsome, your wife not fitting into this image of who you believe yourself to be. This is why you feel strange and humiliated to be seen with her. You have focused your life on what is on the outside, and yet its funny you married someone who would challenge all those preconceived notions you have about what beauty is, and at one time you thought you could rise above it all so you married her. I don't know if your a Christian or not but I know we took vows, sometimes we have to say them again and again, Love, richer, poorer, sickness ,health, better, worse til death do us part. God has brought you to the right place we all have deeper soul searching to do if it begins and ends only with ourselves.
Posted By: Lions215 Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 10/03/13 07:07 PM
if you knew your husband never found you attractive to the point he was 100% drawn to you in admiration of your look, would you be ok with a deep friendship where your husband does not chase you?
This question should only be given to your wife and answered only by her and her alone.
Posted By: neyo Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 10/06/13 08:15 AM
**edit**
Posted By: MBsurvivor Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 10/06/13 02:42 PM
A friendly reminder of our board rules

10. If you are offering advice to person asking a question, you agree to refrain from posting material that is counter to the Marriage Builders program, whether that be in the form of a book reference or a personal philosophy

The purpose of this forum is to help others find solutions using Marriage Builders concepts. We ask that you keep this in mind when posting to others.
Posted By: ETW Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 11/26/13 07:11 PM
No, I am not using porn, have not for many years.

Over the past year or so, I have become more introspective than ever, and I think that because I was hurt in a couple of relationships, I chose someone I knew in deep down I did not have to worry about the odds that anyone would pursue her other than me, she was safe. My wife is not, and never was my "type", and with a high need for physical attraction, basically a woman's beauty is what draws me in, without it, there is no romantic draw. I have said in past posts that we do have a romantic love, I now think I was wrong. There is nothing romantic about our relationship. We are at best very amicable partners, and there are some great achievements resulting from our joint effort.

The sex has always been just awful! I think I now understand myself better, why I ended up here, and I know I have changed over the years to a point that I am looking for the best exit strategy.

How do you know for sure you are not in love? Here is an answer for you, my dreams now center around her finding someone who will sweep her off her feet and give her the love she deserves. I am more than ok with that playing out as reality, if I don't have even a hint of jealousy, what does that say?
I just don't understand why you're not honest with her. How long are youggoingto keep bbeing dishonest and allow you and her to be in unhappy marriage? You're wasting her time and yours
Posted By: living_well Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 11/26/13 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
How do you know for sure you are not in love? Here is an answer for you, my dreams now center around her finding someone who will sweep her off her feet and give her the love she deserves. I am more than ok with that playing out as reality, if I don't have even a hint of jealousy, what does that say?

I think most of us have walked in your shoes at some time during our marriages.

At the beginning love seems so easy and it feels as if it will last for ever, effortlessly. So we get lazy and cease meeting each other's needs in the way we did at the beginning. Or real life rears its ugly head in the form of financial stress or illness. Then independent behaviour starts eating its corrosive way through the bonds, destroying love and desire.

What Dr Harley says is right, love is a formula. Anyone can create or destroy love by their actions.

Believe me when I say that I spent years praying that someone would sweep my angry husband off his feet only to find, to my surprise that I was heartbroken when I found out that had happened. Do not believe your dreams, they are based on a version of reality that is distorted by your longing for a real relationship.

As others have explained to you, the right thing is to go back to your wife and tell her how you feel. Ask her if she will do what is needed to make herself attractive to you. I seem to recall that she is fat. This may be just the incentive she needs to make herself slim. Being fat is always a choice. Tell her that if she gets slim you will desire her. What could possibly be a better carrot than that!

The problem with dumping this marriage is that you are going to find exactly the same dynamic in your next relationship. Far better to try to repair what you have and you have a road map here at MB. Give her a chance.

Posted By: Prisca Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 11/26/13 07:51 PM
Do you have female friends?
Posted By: markos Re: Very low attraction to spouse, HELP! - 11/26/13 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by ETW
How do you know for sure you are not in love?

Love (passion) is usually pretty easy to create.
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