What can you do if your spouse absolutely refuses to believe there's anything wrong with being attached to an opposite sex friend?
Details?
We need to know how likely it is that this is an affair. How close are they?
I just realized another thread had the same title, and I can't seem to find a way to either change the title or delete the thread. I apologize for the confusion. =(
That's OK! Tell us your story.
Welcome to MB
There is not an affair. It's not even all the way to an emotional affair yet, but he's attached enough that being asked to spend less time with her has caused us strife for months now. I don't want to violate his trust by revealing details in a public forum, sorry. =(
Our core problem is not specifically with the woman in question now...women will always be around, all through our lives. Our problem is that he thinks there is nothing wrong with his forming emotional bonds with them.
It's an affair. Snoop for the evidence and expose it.
Oh and you dont need to be worried about sharing details here. This story is so common there is not enough variety in thread titles to keep them separate!
Your husband's exact story has been told hundreds of times on this forum already. He is gas lighting you and telling you plainly your feelings are not the priority here. It is impossible for anyone to identify the person from those details. They are all identical.
He knows you wont stay in a marriage where your feelings are discounted, right? Theres no need to fight once that simple ground rule is in place.
It honestly isn't yet. We spend most of our time together (even lunches every day)....there would be no chance for there to be a physical affair, and they are not behaving together in a way that makes me believe they have moved into an emotional affair yet either. He and I discussed emotional affairs before marriage, and he thought he was doing enough to prevent one by avoiding discussing personal history and feelings, but he has developed a consistent habit of discussing favourite topics of interest with her.
Our problem is that he feels like *his* feelings are being discounted. I tell him that it breaks my heart to see another woman be so important to him, but he doesn't understand why. He tells me that he hasn't found another person in years he gets along with this well, and that I don't care about his being friendless and lonely. I say he could have his choice of any male friend he wants, but he says he gets along with women better. =\
Oh and by that I don't mean you threaten him. Just decide in your own mind and it will be communicated very clearly in your demeanour.
Hectoring him is what a woman who won't leave would do. It's desperate. If you keep your points short ; more like a bulletin of your standpoint it communicates more strength.
I don't think I can allow that in any marriage I choose to stay in.
I will not have other women in my marriage
I disagree and hope you will respect my feelings while you still can.
I don't see this being a problem I will allow in my life for very long.
Refuse to elaborate. He's not deaf.
Refuse to fight. He needs to come up with the idea to respect you on his own time.
Set a deadline and meet his needs like crazy. If there no affair it will work.
So you need to carefully snoop for an affair.
He doesnt need to agree. He needs to do it or lose you.
He doesn't need a female friend. He has a wife for that!
Every cheater I've ever encountered gets along better with the OS.
So does everyone. The OS meets our needs in a way that causes romantic love.
He has agreed to minimize his time with her (after I sunk into a pretty deep depression a week or so ago), but he feels that he's capitulating to an unreasonable demand, and he spends a lot of time bitter and resentful at me for that. He believes that I don't care about his needs or feelings. This is the part I want to try to change.
You don't enthusiastically agree to that though. She goes entirely and he stops sulking if he wants to keep you.
His behaviour is very typical of a man in an affair. I strongly urge you to snoop.
Meet his needs,don't fight , snoop.
That is the holy trinity in keeping his love bank high for you and protecting it from other women.
He won't care about a friend if he is good friends with you.
Unless it's an affair.
Thank you. I will do my best.
Wait, one more question.... How can I go about meeting his needs during the times he's resentful and withdrawn? And some needs I feel I'm not as able to meet....such as admiration. When I compliment his looks or abilities, he discounts it as me being biased towards him, or already in love with him. How can I meet an admiration need better than a person whose opinion he takes at face value?
And on that same note, me being concerned that this friendship could lead to cheating makes him feel bad about himself, and feel like I don't trust him, which also takes away from the admiration need. How do I counteract that?
Our problem is that he feels like *his* feelings are being discounted. I tell him that it breaks my heart to see another woman be so important to him, but he doesn't understand why. He tells me that he hasn't found another person in years he gets along with this well, and that I don't care about his being friendless and lonely.
He indicates that he doesn't care about your feelings. Asking you to suffer on his behalf shows he does not care and I wager this is not the only area of your marriage where he shows a lack of caring.
"Isn't it interesting how someone can miss the point that mutual care in marriage is the only kind of care that makes sense? When your husband tells you that he wants you to care for him by suffering so he can have what he wants, he doesn't understand that this expectation means that he doesn't care about you. And that's the point."
First you need to snoop. If this isn't an affair yet, it will be very soon. Snoop to find out the facts about their relationship.
Dr Harley is against opposite sex friendships in marriage, because they leave a marriage very vulnerable to an affair. If you don't believe this, you can spend one day reading on these boards and you will be convinced. Affairs begin when someone outside the marriage starts meeting the needs of a spouse, and this is already happening in your situation! Even marriages where both spouses are meeting each other's needs 100% and profess to have a great marriage can suffer an affair if boundaries are not established to protect it. The most important boundary is *no opposite sex friends*.
And on that same note, me being concerned that this friendship could lead to cheating makes him feel bad about himself, and feel like I don't trust him, which also takes away from the admiration need. How do I counteract that?
Affording false trust to an untrustworthy person is not good for your marriage. You should eliminate anything that is bad for your marriage.
It's not even all the way to an emotional affair yet, but he's attached enough that being asked to spend less time with her has caused us strife for months now.
When I first started working with MB materials, and posting on this board, I too thought opposite sex friends were fine. Society convinces us that this is the case, even though I have not met a single spouse that isn't in some way bothered by it. I changed my way of thinking and distanced myself form OS friendships that I had had for 30+ years. Why? Because my husband is more important than ANY OS friendship I had. Protecting my marriage and protecting my H and his feelings is far more important that a 'friend.'
In your scenario it would seem that your H is prioritizing his 'friend' over you, his WIFE. So I would urge you to think twice about how this could not possibly be an affair.
He indicates that he doesn't care about your feelings. Asking you to suffer on his behalf shows he does not care and I wager this is not the only area of your marriage where he shows a lack of caring.
But again....his perspective is that asking him to give up this friend is me asking *him* to suffer on my behalf.
I feel like I'm correct in believing that no opposite sex attachments is the only way to ensure that a marriage lasts, and I think that argument is strengthened by all the research I've done on marriage counseling sites (and also by the experiences of quite a few divorced friends). But I don't know how to respond when he is so convinced that I don't care about his feelings or his need for friendships.
It honestly isn't yet. We spend most of our time together (even lunches every day)....there would be no chance for there to be a physical affair, and they are not behaving together in a way that makes me believe they have moved into an emotional affair yet either.
How is there a chance for them to have a close friendship if this is all true? When do they see each other and how do they communicate 'as friends'?
And how would they behave if they were in an EA?
Do you have complete transparency with your H? Do you have access to his cell phone, computers, social media sites, etc?
Our problem is that he feels like *his* feelings are being discounted. I tell him that it breaks my heart to see another woman be so important to him, but he doesn't understand why. He tells me that he hasn't found another person in years he gets along with this well, and that I don't care about his being friendless and lonely. I say he could have his choice of any male friend he wants, but he says he gets along with women better. =\
Dr Harley believes in making complaints if things are bothering you. If my H were to tell me "I don't like it when you run in the mornings." I don't have to understand WHY it bothers him to know that he does not like it. It is disrespectful for me to think he does not have a right to not like something. Part of providing extraordinary care in a marriage is to do things that makes your spouse happy, and avoid doing things that make your spouse unhappy. With this in mind I would stop running in the mornings, and work with him to POJA other solutions, maybe a different time to run that is better.
With this in mind, your H does not have to understand WHY you don't like him having OS friendships (although I wager that he DOES understand this, but just doesn't want to give up the ability to get his needs met by other women). As your husband he should want to avoid doing things that make you unhappy though, and if a 'friend' is making you unhappy, he should avoid that friend. Not even taking into account that having OS friendships is putting our marriage at great risk for an affair, it is simply caring for your spouse.
You are not objecting to him having friendships, you are bothered by him having OPPOSITE SEX friendships, and who wouldn't be??? It is disrespectful for him to disregard your complaint about this. You could find a solution that makes you both happy, by spending the time TOGETHER and YOU becoming his friend. Obviously this is the optimal answer since you are his wife after all.
After all that, what is really going on here is that your H has OS friendships because he enjoys having other women meet his needs. He is already addicted to this OW meeting his needs, and that is why he is fighting tooth and nail not to give her up. My guess is that if you push this issue, he will attempt to go 'underground' with their friendship and just start hiding it from you, long before he will give it up. This is why snooping is very important here. To find out if the line of affair has been crossed already, and continue to monitor him after you tell him he needs to end this friendship.
He has agreed to minimize his time with her (after I sunk into a pretty deep depression a week or so ago), but he feels that he's capitulating to an unreasonable demand, and he spends a lot of time bitter and resentful at me for that. He believes that I don't care about his needs or feelings. This is the part I want to try to change.
Minimizing his time with her is not the answer, this is not negotiable. He has to end his relationship with her. The fact that you have 'sunk into a deep depression' and he STILL did not end contact with her tells you that he is already addicted to her, and this is more than just a friendship. If you were doing anything that made your H sink into a deep depression, would you stop doing it immediately? I know I would.
And on that same note, me being concerned that this friendship could lead to cheating makes him feel bad about himself, and feel like I don't trust him, which also takes away from the admiration need. How do I counteract that?
He should feel bad about himself because he is behaving in an untrustworthy way, NOT because you are responding to that behavior.
Dr Harley believes that everyone is wired to cheat in the right situation, and therefore nobody should blindly trust. Affair proofing a marriage means more than just creating a great marriage, but also by creating boundaries to protect your marriage, and integrating your lifestyles to the point that makes it next to impossible for someone to have an affair. Having transparency is part of this integration. My H has nothing to hide from me, and I have nothing to hide from him. We are both welcome to snoop on each other at any time. In fact I welcome snooping, this is how trust is created after all.
This does not mean you cannot have some amount of trust if you have created an affair proof marriage and if your spouse is behaving in a trustworthy way. But NEITHER of these things is true for your marriage.
How is there a chance for them to have a close friendship if this is all true? When do they see each other and how do they communicate 'as friends'?
And how would they behave if they were in an EA?
Do you have complete transparency with your H? Do you have access to his cell phone, computers, social media sites, etc?
We all work at the same location, but they work in the same area. They had been chatting at the office several times a day, but I didn't realize they had been chatting outside of a group setting, or that they had developed such a rapport until a few months ago. I am so sorry, but I just don't feel comfortable revealing more details.
Again, I am 100% positive that there is no physical affair, and and 100% positive that it has not gone into an emotional affair yet (defining the beginning of an emotional affair as when feelings are first shared). We have some transparency in our electronics, but that's mostly moot for us, as we would both be more than capable of covering our electronic tracks if necessary.
Minimizing his time with her is not the answer, this is not negotiable. He has to end his relationship with her. The fact that you have 'sunk into a deep depression' and he STILL did not end contact with her tells you that he is already addicted to her, and this is more than just a friendship. If you were doing anything that made your H sink into a deep depression, would you stop doing it immediately? I know I would.
And this is where it comes up....giving up his
friend is making him depressed. I have spent the last several months trying to surround him with males who have common interests with him, but none of them have as much in common (he believes), and he is depressed at losing this one friend he has already made.
I have made the addiction point. He just doesn't see it that way.
I should point out again that snooping is unnecessary at the moment. He is being honest with me even when what he says hurts me or causes negative consequences for him.
You are not objecting to him having friendships, you are bothered by him having OPPOSITE SEX friendships, and who wouldn't be??? It is disrespectful for him to disregard your complaint about this. You could find a solution that makes you both happy, by spending the time TOGETHER and YOU becoming his friend. Obviously this is the optimal answer since you are his wife after all.
This is one of the main things I've been trying ever since I realized he had developed a bond with her. (In addition to introducing him to other men.) The problem is, he spends much of his time at home either moping, or angry with me, or withdrawn, so it's next to impossible for me to meet his needs. How do I do that in that situation?
Again, I am 100% positive that there is no physical affair, and and 100% positive that it has not gone into an emotional affair yet (defining the beginning of an emotional affair as when feelings are first shared). We have some transparency in our electronics, but that's mostly moot for us, as we would both be more than capable of covering our electronic tracks if necessary.
Yes that is how Dr Harley defines the beginning of an EA. However, the feelings develop BEFORE the discussion about them, which could be in the middle of clothes ripping off in a hotel room. So you really don't want to wait until the confession happens to kill this thing do you? Clearly, the feelings have ALREADY developed, whether they have admitted that to each other or not.
There is no such thing as 100% sure that he hasn't crossed that threshold, you yourself just said that he could easily cover his tracks if he wanted to.
And this is where it comes up....giving up his friend is making him depressed. I have spent the last several months trying to surround him with males who have common interests with him, but none of them have as much in common (he believes), and he is depressed at losing this one friend he has already made.
I have made the addiction point. He just doesn't see it that way.
This is not about common interests. It is about him having another woman meeting his needs and filling his love bank.
He doesn't have to see it any way. But the fact that it bothers YOU and that YOU see it as an addiction, inappropriate relationship, emotional affair...whatever...means that if he is to provide you, his WIFE, with extraordinary care, he has to eliminate this friendship.
This is one of the main things I've been trying ever since I realized he had developed a bond with her. (In addition to introducing him to other men.) The problem is, he spends much of his time at home either moping, or angry with me, or withdrawn, so it's next to impossible for me to meet his needs. How do I do that in that situation?
He is going to work every day and spending hours with the OW, who he has at the very least romantic feelings for and an addiction to, recognized or not. That is what you are competing with when he comes home to you. He is already in an affair fog imo.
[quote=MelodyLane]
He indicates that he doesn't care about your feelings. Asking you to suffer on his behalf shows he does not care and I wager this is not the only area of your marriage where he shows a lack of caring.
But again....his perspective is that asking him to give up this friend is me asking *him* to suffer on my behalf.
But.....that is not rational. Asking him to stop hurting you is not making him suffer. It never should have started in the first place. He wants to win at your expense and that is a freeloaders philosophy that will wreck your marriage.
He is going to work every day and spending hours with the OW, who he has at the very least romantic feelings for and an addiction to, recognized or not. That is what you are competing with when he comes home to you. He is already in an affair fog imo.
He swears his feelings for her are not romantic, and I believe that he has not had any conscious romantic thoughts about her. I think he has himself convinced there is nothing wrong with his feelings because of this.
Since he agreed to limit his time, he has tried to not go down to her office to chat, and to limit the amount of time he stops to chat if she comes by his area instead. He's probably averaging about 5-15 minutes a day right now, and it is during the day when coworkers are around. So it's progress, but the underlying problem remains of believing female friends are okay and that he's giving in to an unreasonable demand.
This is not about common interests. It is about him having another woman meeting his needs and filling his love bank.
He doesn't have to see it any way. But the fact that it bothers YOU and that YOU see it as an addiction, inappropriate relationship, emotional affair...whatever...means that if he is to provide you, his WIFE, with extraordinary care, he has to eliminate this friendship.
I agree with all of that. How can I get him to believe that too?
You are not objecting to him having friendships, you are bothered by him having OPPOSITE SEX friendships, and who wouldn't be??? It is disrespectful for him to disregard your complaint about this. You could find a solution that makes you both happy, by spending the time TOGETHER and YOU becoming his friend. Obviously this is the optimal answer since you are his wife after all.
This is one of the main things I've been trying ever since I realized he had developed a bond with her. (In addition to introducing him to other men.) The problem is, he spends much of his time at home either moping, or angry with me, or withdrawn, so it's next to impossible for me to meet his needs. How do I do that in that situation?
If he places this "friendship" before your marriage, Dr Harley would tell you to separate from him, before it destroys your marriage entirely. Anything that comes before your marriage will eventually come between you, and it is already beginning. The fact that he wants you to lose at his expense demonstrates a freeloaders approach to marriage that won't sustain a marriage.
I have no doubt he is as thoughtless in other areas of your marriage.
Check this out:
When to Call It Quits - Part 1
I agree with all of that. How can I get him to believe that too?
You tell him. And if he ignores your wishes, you separate from him.
But.....that is not rational. Asking him to stop hurting you is not making him suffer. It never should have started in the first place. He wants to win at your expense and that is a freeloaders philosophy that will wreck your marriage.
But is there any way to help him see that? I asked him to read this site, and he finally did, but he just thinks it's wrong, and that he knows his intentions, and nothing bad will happen. And he thinks my insisting he not have this friend is me winning at his expense. How can you get a spouse to see the other side?
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
You are not objecting to him having friendships, you are bothered by him having OPPOSITE SEX friendships, and who wouldn't be??? It is disrespectful for him to disregard your complaint about this. You could find a solution that makes you both happy, by spending the time TOGETHER and YOU becoming his friend. Obviously this is the optimal answer since you are his wife after all.
This is one of the main things I've been trying ever since I realized he had developed a bond with her. (In addition to introducing him to other men.) The problem is, he spends much of his time at home either moping, or angry with me, or withdrawn, so it's next to impossible for me to meet his needs. How do I do that in that situation?
If he places this "friendship" before your marriage, Dr Harley would tell you to separate from him, before it destroys your marriage entirely. Anything that comes before your marriage will eventually come between you, and it is already beginning. The fact that he wants you to lose at his expense demonstrates a freeloaders approach to marriage that won't sustain a marriage.
I have no doubt he is as thoughtless in other areas of your marriage.
Check this out:
When to Call It Quits - Part 1
x2
Unless a dramatic turnaround in his mindset occurs, you will not only suffer affairs in your marriage, but his thoughtlessness will continue to rob you of a happy and fulfilling marriage.
If he places this "friendship" before your marriage, Dr Harley would tell you to separate from him, before it destroys your marriage entirely. Anything that comes before your marriage will eventually come between you, and it is already beginning. The fact that he wants you to lose at his expense demonstrates a freeloaders approach to marriage that won't sustain a marriage.
I have no doubt he is as thoughtless in other areas of your marriage.
Check this out:
When to Call It Quits - Part 1
I will look at this over the weekend. Thank you guys for all of your help.
But.....that is not rational. Asking him to stop hurting you is not making him suffer. It never should have started in the first place. He wants to win at your expense and that is a freeloaders philosophy that will wreck your marriage.
But is there any way to help him see that? I asked him to read this site, and he finally did, but he just thinks it's wrong, and that he knows his intentions, and nothing bad will happen. And he thinks my insisting he not have this friend is me winning at his expense. How can you get a spouse to see the other side?
I don't know how to force someone to care about your feelings against his will. The only thing I can suggest is taking steps to protect yourself from his thoughtless behavior. The fact that he places a friendship above your marriage should be very telling to you.
I don't know how to force someone to care about your feelings against his will. The only thing I can suggest is taking steps to protect yourself from his thoughtless behavior. The fact that he places a friendship above your marriage should be very telling to you.
Well, he says that if he has to choose between her and me, of course he will choose me, but he feels extremely resentful towards me for making him lose his friend.
Don't listen to him, he is already in the fog. You are taking away his drug, of course he will resent you. But this is the only way your marriage will survive.
I don't know how to force someone to care about your feelings against his will. The only thing I can suggest is taking steps to protect yourself from his thoughtless behavior. The fact that he places a friendship above your marriage should be very telling to you.
Well, he says that if he has to choose between her and me, of course he will choose me, but he feels extremely resentful towards me for making him lose his friend.
His resentment at losing a 'friend' is nowhere NEAR the resentment you will feel if he continues this inappropriate relationship, which will eventually turn into an affair.
It is a short step between him resenting you and him flat out telling you that he would take their side over yours. That is what I experienced. This is not a minor thing, and you are not getting the care you deserve as a wife.
If this were my H I would tell him that his inappropriate relationship had to end, and this was non negotiable. I would ask him to move his job path so that he no longer interacted with this woman. Furthermore, I would tell him that if he wanted to be married, he would need to forego OS friendships in the future. And if he was not willing to protect and safeguard my sense of safety and my feelings and our marriage in this way, I would be separating.
I would also call the OW and tell her that it is in her best interest to stay FAR away from my H.
But that's just me. And I have suffered an A, and have learned my lesson the hard way. Do not learn this the hard way.
I don't know how to force someone to care about your feelings against his will. The only thing I can suggest is taking steps to protect yourself from his thoughtless behavior. The fact that he places a friendship above your marriage should be very telling to you.
Well, he says that if he has to choose between her and me, of course he will choose me, but he feels extremely resentful towards me for making him lose his friend.
His resentment is not the problem, though. YOUR resentment will ruin your marriage. Your resentment will last forever:
Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112 - 113
What about Resentment?
One of the most common objections to the POJA is that it creates
resentment when it�s followed. I agree; it does usually create some
resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed.
An illustration will help make this important point.
George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells
his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.
If George goes ahead and watches the game, he�s guilty of independent
behavior. He is not following the POJA, and Sue will be resentful.
When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call
her resentment type A.
If George follows the POJA and doesn�t accept Sam�s invitation,
George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something
because of Sue�s objections, I call his resentment type B.
Which type of resentment makes the largest Love Bank withdrawals:
type A or type B? The answer is type A, and that�s why the POJA
helps build Love Bank balances. I�ll explain.
When George violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel
the effect of the thoughtless decision (Love Bank withdrawals) for
as long as memory persists�possibly for life whenever the event is
recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is
limited in time. It lasts only as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable
alternative that is acceptable to Sue.
George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection
but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn�t invited to watch
football and doesn�t want to invite herself to Sam�s house, so she
suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football.
George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts
an end to George�s type B resentment.
Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops
the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those
with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference
because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may
feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in
their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully,
unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to
them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating
type A resentment.
Well, he says that if he has to choose between her and me, of course he will choose me, but he feels extremely resentful towards me for making him lose his friend.
I would take him up on that offer. His resentment will fade once you learn to effectively meet his needs.
Snooping is VERY necessary; the man is pining for her before your very eyes.
He misses her so much that he doesn't even see how breathtakingly disrespectful it is to mope around like a love sick teenager before his wife's very eyes.
You say he does not consciously acknowledge romantic feelings but romantic feelings don't have to be.
Like any primal need your body drives you there without consulting your brain. You plan to diet but end up scoffing four doughnuts without realising what happened.
He feels miserable because he is in love. He is demonizing you and belittling your feelings so can put an end to his misery and recontact her. He won't be honest with his wife when he does this.
He had not been honest with you while the friendship was developing. He was not telling you about his day because he us not a radically honest person.
The fact he is capable of hiding his tracks electrically does not make me feel better.
I think if you were to snoop right now you would find an EA at least and good reason for him to leave his job and end all contact.
NB do not call him a love sick teenager!
"I care very much about your feelings for another woman. It makes me anxious that you have developed them."
If he places this "friendship" before your marriage, Dr Harley would tell you to separate from him, before it destroys your marriage entirely. Anything that comes before your marriage will eventually come between you, and it is already beginning. The fact that he wants you to lose at his expense demonstrates a freeloaders approach to marriage that won't sustain a marriage.
I have no doubt he is as thoughtless in other areas of your marriage.
Oh my goodness I wish I had internalized all this when I got here back in '05! Instead I dragged my kids through an increasingly thoughtless marriage for 4 more years. You and your H can develop a marriage of mutual care though! What UA do you two have planned for this weekend?
Well, he says that if he has to choose between her and me, of course he will choose me, but he feels extremely resentful towards me for making him lose his friend.
I would take him up on that offer. His resentment will fade once you learn to effectively meet his needs.
Oh yes, run with this!!
Well, he says that if he has to choose between her and me, of course he will choose me, but he feels extremely resentful towards me for making him lose his friend.
I would take him up on that offer. His resentment will fade once you learn to effectively meet his needs.
Oh yes, run with this!!
Actually, this was what he said about a month ago. And then he kept trying to negotiate.
I have read all of those, and they make a lot of sense. After much drama, he agreed to read this one, but it had no effect on him.
I would take him up on that offer. His resentment will fade once you learn to effectively meet his needs.
And this leads me back to my other question: How can you effectively meet needs for a spouse who is withdrawn and resentful? I suggest recreational activities, but he doesn't feel like doing any. I try to start conversations, but he can't hold up his end because all he's thinking about is how I don't trust him or care about his feelings.
"I care very much about your feelings for another woman. It makes me anxious that you have developed them."
This is essentially what I've been saying for MONTHS. He counters with "it hurts that you don't trust me" and "you don't want me to have any friends".
If he places this "friendship" before your marriage, Dr Harley would tell you to separate from him, before it destroys your marriage entirely. Anything that comes before your marriage will eventually come between you, and it is already beginning. The fact that he wants you to lose at his expense demonstrates a freeloaders approach to marriage that won't sustain a marriage.
I have no doubt he is as thoughtless in other areas of your marriage.
Oh my goodness I wish I had internalized all this when I got here back in '05! Instead I dragged my kids through an increasingly thoughtless marriage for 4 more years. You and your H can develop a marriage of mutual care though! What UA do you two have planned for this weekend?
I hope so. He has been mostly refusing to make plans with me, but we went out to eat a couple of times, and he played two board games with me. I've been trying to engage him in conversation, but what's on his mind are his negative feelings towards me and it's hard for him to keep up a conversation about anything else.
How many hours do you spend together in UA time weekly?
You need to try to spend 20 hours doing things you both enjoy
Well, he says that if he has to choose between her and me, of course he will choose me, but he feels extremely resentful towards me for making him lose his friend.
I would take him up on that offer. His resentment will fade once you learn to effectively meet his needs.
Oh yes, run with this!!
Is he still in communication with this woman?
Is he still in communication with this woman?
Yes. She works near him, and is accustomed to stopping in to chat sometimes. He refuses to tell her anything outright, and she is young enough to not think anything is wrong with a friendship with a married man (I thought the same thing at her age, before everyone I knew got divorced). He has promised to not seek her out for chats, and to be distant and end any conversations if she comes by his office, but he has "fallen off the wagon" a few times. He tells me when he does chat with her, and for how long.
Have you asked him to leave this job?
How many hours do you spend together in UA time weekly?
You need to try to spend 20 hours doing things you both enjoy
I have been trying, but since we've had the strife over this, he hasn't wanted to do much, and sometimes bad feelings overcome whatever good conversation we're having.
Have you asked him to leave this job?
That's not a possibility at all.
Have you asked him to leave this job?
That's not a possibility at all.
Why?
Have you asked him to leave this job?
That's not a possibility at all.
Why?
It just isn't. Again, I am really uncomfortable giving away details in a public forum. In fact, I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me, but I kind of wish I could delete my whole thread. Is there a way to do that?
needso much help,
I don't think you are being entirely honest.
You just edited your previous post and removed the part about him being REQUIRED to interact with her since they have meetings together.
I think you are downplaying the seriousness of this and that if you are unwilling to ask him to leave the job your marriage will not survive
I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me, but I kind of wish I could delete my whole thread. Is there a way to do that?
Not really.
I think the real problem here is not that it is impossible for him to change jobs, but simply that he won't. And you know he won't. And you're not going to rock the boat in hopes that you can hold on to your marriage.
But your marriage is already slipping through your fingers. You need to boldly stand up for it. You need to hold the bar high, and tell him that if he wants to keep you, he needs to meet your expectations. Only then does your marriage have any chance.
I agree. Timidity and walking on eggshells is the plan here and is going to be your downfall.
I mean your whole purpose for being here is "how do I make him see it is reasonable for me to ban his putting me in competition with other women?"
Who the hell cares whether he agrees?
The fact is it is your standard and one he agrees to and you expect him to do it without sulking and deliberately making your life unpleasant.
I don't think it will be too long before he starts talking about separation and divorce because you are too easy to scare into compliance. It won't take long for him to figure out how to unnerve you.
Then he gets his 'friend' and keeps you too.
I urge you to snoop now and I double urge you to snoop if he ups the ante and withdraws even further or makes threats.
Welcome to MB
How long have you been married and do you have any children with your husband?
It is not reasonable to think that he is behaving this way for a mere friend who he chats with on short breaks at work. Watching his wife have depression, hearing her voice ongoing complaints without accommodating or addressing those in any way, sulking around and giving his wife the cold shoulder for just the suggestion that he discontinue contact with this 'friend'....
This is the behavior of a man who is addicted to another woman, whose mind is in an affair fog.
Please tell me you realize this.
As far as your thread. The information you have provided is:
1) husband having inappropriate relationship with work OW
2) husband in fog and not interested in cutting off contact with OW
3) husband has job, and works with OW, and cannot leave job (so you believe, for whatever reason)
This generic information pretty much sums up 50% or more of the threads on here. Nobody cares whether your husband is the president, a famous actor, or a secret agent. The laws of relationships and affairs apply in EVERY situation, as does Dr Harley's advice.
It is not reasonable to think that he is behaving this way for a mere friend who he chats with on short breaks at work. Watching his wife have depression, hearing her voice ongoing complaints without accommodating or addressing those in any way, sulking around and giving his wife the cold shoulder for just the suggestion that he discontinue contact with this 'friend'....
This is the behavior of a man who is addicted to another woman, whose mind is in an affair fog.
Please tell me you realize this.
The poster knows this.
She edited a post where she explained that he was concealing the amount of time he spent with the OW.
She has apparently chosen the "Bury Your Head in the Sand" method for dealing with this workplace affair.
I respectfully disagree wannabophim. That can be the case but I don't think so here. Only because he has told the OP that he 'gets on better with women' and is going to make a concerted effort to make female friends.
Even if she met every need there is to meet, he actually plans on having a variety of women meet his needs anyway. Also, while he is allowing the OW to meet a need, Needso isn't able to. I mean she could try to admire him for example, but she would still have to make complaints as a part of normal married life, whereas OW is free to be nothing but admiring.
She could look at if she does meet his needs properly later on but the priority first of all is to get rid of OW.
It is not a lack of needs causing the problem here, it is a lack of boundaries with women.
Even in a perfect marriage, an OS friendship is a danger.
I respectfully disagree wannabophim. That can be the case but I don't think so here. Only because he has told the OP that he 'gets on better with women' and is going to make a concerted effort to make female friends.
Even if she met every need there is to meet, he actually plans on having a variety of women meet his needs anyway. Also, while he is allowing the OW to meet a need, Needso isn't able to. I mean she could try to admire him for example, but she would still have to make complaints as a part of normal married life, whereas OW is free to be nothing but admiring.
She could look at if she does meet his needs properly later on but the priority first of all is to get rid of OW.
It is not a lack of needs causing the problem here, it is a lack of boundaries with women.
Even in a perfect marriage, an OS friendship is a danger.
x2
Unfortunately, we all know needsomuchhelp will probably be back on here and telling us her H is now having an affair. It's very difficult to see these betrayed spouses go through the exact same thing we all did and not see the runaway train coming their way. We all had these friendships start in the same way. We all had our spouses profess their love for us and downplay the "friendship". Most of our waywards never thought they would be capable of an affair. The best advice for needsomuchhelp is she needs to go with her gut. Her intuition is right.