I'm so thankful for all the posts you've added to this forum. They've been so helpful to me over the past several days.

My story: I'm 51, WW and I have been married 21 years, we have 2 children (both older teens). Only marriage for both of us. WW's A exposed 1/14/10. I felt things I didn't know I could feel, a degree of pain I never knew existed. But, there's no need for me to express to you the emotions I felt. You've felt them, too. I went to the internet, grasping for anything that might give me hope and some respite from the agony. I was blessed to come across Dr. Harley's site. I've been devouring the information in his articles ever since, trying my best to apply them to my life. Only recently did I start reading the entries in the discussion forum. I wish I'd done so earlier.

Since the A was exposed I've done my best to avoid lovebusters and to do whatever my WW needs to help her through withdrawal. Over the past 3 months I've done some things right and others wrong. My problem is that I'm not always sure which is which. I read (and greatly appreciated) Ark's lighthouse entry and his musings on plan A. I learned that I cannot expect any of my EN's to be met for now. That was a question of mine: should a BS expect anything from his/her WS wrt EN's. I suggested we begin seeing a marriage counselor, and my WW agreed. Last month she asked if she could stay in the guestroom for 2 weeks, and I agreed (fully expecting the time to be much longer, and this arrangement continues today). I also agreed to her request to eliminate physical intimacy from our relationship. I expect nothing more than a cold peck on the cheek or a limp-noodle hug from her now. I'm OK with these things, if they're helping her through withdrawal.

I've developed a great respect for Dr. Harley and his methods over the past 3 months. I know you have a similar respect, too. I'm beginning with the end in mind, which I see as an even better M than my WW and I had before. But she wants guarantees. She continually reminds me how she doesn't love me and doesn't know if she can begin the work necessary to achieve what I know we can if we're willing to put in the effort. She says she doesn't know if she'll ever love me again and wants some kind of guarantee that my hope for a better M will be realized. I told her the only guarantee I could offer was this: if we don't try, the end won't be good.

I want to be the lighthouse, but our discussions always seem to lead to my telling her how much I'm hurting. I'm afraid I'm smoking up my light's lens by telling her again and again of my feelings. I find it so difficult to remain upbeat all the time and am afraid I'm not giving her good enough reasons to stay with our family.

I don't want to go on and on in my first posting on this forum. Here are my questions:
1. How will I know she's nearing the end of withdrawal?
2. Is there any reason or benefit to discussing our relationship while she's in withdrawal?
3. How do I keep from developing resentment during this time of total denial of my EN's?
4. I have no experience with snooping. Should I be doing my own investigation into her activities now, or wait until it seems like withdrawal is lasting longer than it should? If I should start now, I need some help with techniques.
5. Now that she's sleeping in the guestroom she seems more distant than she did the month after the A was exposed. Should I put a time limit on this arrangement, or just let her continue as is for as long as she wishes?
6. One request I made of her for my agreeing to the guestroom was that we apply Dr. Harley's method for marital recovery to our M. She agreed to do so. Is it too early for us to begin applying his technique in earnest? Right now, she's not very interested in reading his books (I purchased Surviving an Affair and have already read it) or reading his articles on MB.
7. If I come across a thread in this forum which I feel will help us, is it wise for me to forward a link to her, or is it too early still?
8. Should I shut up about my feelings and just keep a smile on my face, working as hard as I can to provide her EN's?

I'm sure I have more questions. I'm just so confused right now. I greatly appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you for taking your time to read this long post.

Hi SF, welcome to our forum. Sorry you are here. The most important question is has she ended all contact with the OM? I do mean ALL. Does she see him anywhere, anytime? Are you snooping to ensure contact has ended?

Is the OM married and if so, does his wife know?

Hello, MelodyLane,
Thanks for your reply. She's gotten 3 text messages from him since the A was exposed. All 3 were to warn her of his BW. OMW is the definition of "hell hath no fury..." I fully expect some sort of legal action to be taken against my WW by OMW. I think OMW is my best friend when it comes to keeping my WW NC.

standingfast, have you spoken to the OMW? Does she know about the text messages her H sent to your wife?

OM and OMW are D as of 1/10. He's moved out of their house.

I've got a lot of questions:

When did the A end?

How did the A end?

Were/are they co-workers?

How do you know hell hath no fury like xOMW?

Did the A contribute to/cause their divorce?

Where does OM live now?

Has the A been exposed?

Do you live in an alienation of affection state? Or can you tell us what state you live in? (If you are uncomfortable doing so, google "what states recognize alienation of affection lawsuits")

Sorry to overload you with all these, sf, but they'll help us form some answers for you.

That means he is free to contact your wife. Have you spoken to the OMW yourself?

I don't know how to make one of those boxes, so will paste your questions here:

When did the A end?

1/14/10

How did the A end?

I received an e-mail message from someone claiming to be a private investigator. It outlined their activities, WW admitted to them.

Were/are they co-workers?

No, I was deployed with the USN when their friendship formed. Both were in a high school parents' association.

How do you know hell hath no fury like xOMW?

She broke into our house and played a voicemail WW left on OM's cellphone. I was laid up in bed with 5 broken ribs after an accident on my ship.

Did the A contribute to/cause their divorce?

Yes to both, as far as I know.

Where does OM live now?

I don't know.

Has the A been exposed?

Yes, to a small group of people. Our children know, the marriage counselor, a personal counselor each of us is seeing. No extended family members know.

Do you live in an alienation of affection state? Or can you tell us what state you live in? (If you are uncomfortable doing so, google "what states recognize alienation of affection lawsuits")

We don't live in one of the 7 states that recognize these lawsuits.

Thanks for your interest and help.

I haven't spoken to her recently.

Well, there should be some withdrawal, but it has been quite a long time. I suspect they are in contact. Install a keylogger on your computer. Eblaster is good, costs about $100.

Also do you have access to her phone records?

ok, cool. As long as you have spoken to her and verified the facts you gave above.

In that case, I would strongly suggest you snoop like a bloodhound. Put flexispy on her phone: flexispy.com, a keylogger on her computer, eblaster at spectorpro.com and any other thing you can think of. If you buy the souped up version of flexispy, it has a GPS on it.

I would put a voice activated tape recorder in her room to see what she is doing all night.

In the meantime, I would look into signing up for a MB weekend. MB is completely different than ANY OTHER marriage program in that it takes a behavioral approach, rather than a feeling based approach. It is based on the same premise as successful programs like AA, in that it holds that feelings follow actions.

It is very successful for couples who use it because its goal is to create romantic love by instituting the behaviors that lead to that. It is a SHORT program that does not involve going to counselors and bloviating about your feelings for years on end with no end in sight. Traditional marriage counseling has an 84% failure rate, btw, and MC's actually have a higher divorce rate than the general population. They don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. Many of us here have gone to the weekend and have very happy marriages today.

The chance is very good that her A is continuing. You need to snoop. Check bank statements, cell phone records, install a keylogger on the computer she uses. Get a SIM card for her cell phone if it uses one, and switch it to see any texts.

Check out her car for hidden pay-as-you-go phones. While you're in there, install a Voice Activated Recorder to tape her while she's in the car. Many waywards' convos with their APs occur in the car while they're driving.

Since you don't live in a Alienation of Affection state, the likelihood of OM's ex being able to sue are low, unless you and your WW have serious cash and ex is able to prove your WW and her ex conducted their A openly, knowing it would cause her emotional distress. Most courts are loathe to allow a 'heart balm tort' to proceed. They don't consider the conduct of affairees outrageous enough to warrant a lawsuit and consider the lawsuit frivolous. Most attorneys don't want to take on an Infliction of Emotional Distress client because there's usually no money in it. (Having said that, I'm not an attorney, just well-versed on heart balm statutes. Consult an attorney for more info if you're concerned about a lawsuit.)

Others will be on soon to advise you more. Weekends are a little slower around here, so don't give up if you don't seem to be getting a lot of replies, and don't start a new thread, thinking you'll get more responses. That'll confuse the posters.

SF-You have a lot of heavy hitters on your thread all ready. I don't have much to add except I TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN ADVISED THUS FAR.

Thanks, everyone. I've talked to her several times about attending a MB seminar. Everytime I mention it there's another excuse not to go. How often are they conducted? What tactic might I use to show her the value of attending one without seeming demanding or irritating?

What do I do with the information I gather from the various devices you recommend? Is exposure the purpose for info-gathering? She has her own computer and access to another at work. I doubt I'd be able to install something on them.

To whom should the A be exposed? Is there any reason to tell family members? They live in another state.

At this time I don't see any progress in our conversations. We talked for a short time this evening, but she said she was maxed out and needed to go to bed (in fairness to her, she had a long day at work and has a chronic pain condition which was bothering her this evening).

I'm at a point where I wonder if she's not right and perhaps there isn't anything good waiting for us no matter what we do. The results of the efforts BS's have made and posted on this forum give me some hope, however. I keep telling myself that if I give up there won't be any possibility of a reconciliation between us.

I like the "alien abduction" analogy. She is behaving like she's possessed by some foreign being. Our daughter knows how sad I've been and she said to me, "Why don't you leave. She's the one who had the affair." I told my WW the comment and her reply was, "Well, she's entitled to her opinion." I couldn't believe it. No hint of sorrow or remorse at the possibility of our family being destroyed.

Thanks again for your advice.

You are very new at this. Do the snooping and find out exactly what is going on.

Don't confront your wife or let her know that you are checking.

You have to find out if the OM is still in the picture so we can give good advice.

SF- These comments that your WW is making and the fact that she isn't "plugged in" is precisely why you need to find out what is going on. To fight the enemy you have to KNOW the enemy. I went through 2 years of not knowing before I found MB and then found out my enemy was an A. I have spent the last 6 months fighting, and I don't know where it will lead but at least I KNOW.

You need to snoop in any way you can. Don't give us excuses of why you can't do something, give us the reasons that you CAN. Out of all of the ways that you CAN snoop which ones will you use this week? There are a lot of things out there. If you can't install a keylogger, are you able to purchase a VAR and put it in her car or room? Can you put flexispy on her phone? Focus on the things you CAN do. This is your PLAN and we need your help to help you more effectively. Thank you.

Thanks for the kicks in the butt. I'm still heavily in denial. I'm an M.D. and everything in my life revolves around trust. My patients tell me the truth, I treat them based on what they tell me (verbally and physically). I trust them to tell me the truth, they trust me to use that information to their benefit. Some will lie to their doctor, but in my field it's not difficult to recognize. It's so foreign to me to have to presume a lie and look to other means to find the truth.

That being said, where's the best place to put a VAR in a car?

Most often the suggestion is to put it under the seat with velcro. You don't want it to fall out and you to be found out. Also, maybe you could buy two and put one in a room that she might talk on the phone etc.

Since you are an M.D. I guess you could also understand that you have an addict on your hands. I am sure that you are aware that an addict will do anything to get their fix. That is what you are dealing with here. Your WW is addicted to her A and OM is her fix. What lengths would you go to to make sure that an addict wasn't getting their fix? What would you do to help her get rid of her addiction? Use the MB concepts, there is still a chance for R.

What has worked well for me is using a mircophone with the VAR. It cuts down on road noise as the microphone isn't against the floor or firewall or what ever. If you get one be sure to get one that has a long cord, don't worry about it being bulky. I had a bulky microphone but I removed all the plastic from it so all that was left was the cord and a small hearing aid size "pick-up". With the long cord you can stash the VAR anywhere in the car and just hide the cord and microphone anywhere in the car. Be sure to have velcro for the VAR, superglue and a black sharpie to color the wires and/pick up.

Happy hunting....