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#2693382 12/28/12 03:54 PM
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Another sad tale ...

I believe it was February. I was sitting in the car just outside of my sons gymnastics. I looked at my wife and asked her to be honest with me. There has been something on my mind over the years that has bothered me ... I told her that I was sick and dying inside ... And needed to know ... Did you cheat on me with your boss all those years ago? An old question that had not been asked in years and years ...

Wait ... This is going to be a long story so I may as well start at the start.

I married my wife 19 years ago in July. A few years into our marriage I was not happy with how much my wife was working. She was an engineer and I was a stockbroker. We both made great money but where I would work 7-4 then come home to my life she would be 'stuck' at work weekends, and to all hours of the night...my gut was telling me the same thing that we all know was really happening but who was I to call the woman of my dreams and the only women I have ever been with a liar when I asked her if something was going on and she tells me no ...

It went on for some time like this in my life. Then we had kids and I remember telling my wife that she can't keep working where she was. The hours and our lack of time together was killing me and the way I see her acting around her boss and defending her work so much at our expense was also killing me.

So she did eventually quit. We quit our jobs left the city to raise our kids. We bought a house out close to where we both grew up and where our families were. Things were pretty good for the next 5 years with me working from home and my wife being mom. (note we had a boy then she went back to work for a year then had a girl before she left .... I'll make reference to this later .. But in case I forget to mention it, the DNA tests I did show that that are my kids -- how fun is that people !).

We made a decision to homeschool our 2 children and unfortunately things got rough a bit for us financially. It got to the point that my wife was going to have to work again to help out. We made the decision that she would work for the next few years and I could teach the children then we would switch again in a few years and leapfrog like that to always keep our family together and be with our kids.

She called up her old company and got a job in TN. We were living in Canada (our home) but my wife was insistent that she did not want to work in her old position in Canada.

It was an exciting move for us I thought ... A chance to see the world a bit and what a beautiful place. An adventure - why not. We packed up and started the next chapter of our lives in the south in a new country.

Again I thought things were going well for awhile. But certain patterns started to develop and soon the kids and I never really saw mom much.

Now in my wife's defense, she is a workaholic I believe which is a condition that I believe real. But anyways ... Without time together, of course resentment began to grow in both of us I imagine. Our relationship got to the point where it was me driving her to work each day and picking her up each night so late that she would just come home, prepare for her weekend meeting, and pass out. Rinse and repeat. I was not happy and begged her just to leave work and we work together from home or anything different from this. She believed that she could not homeschool the kids like I was and convinced herself she had to keep working. And that she did.

We did have lots of great times mixed into this schedule and the kids were happy. It would take me 5 years to get my green card at which point we were hoping to all start a family business or I was to go work a bit while my wife took her turn at home again. I found myself not able to compete for her attention. Her work got her for 11 hours a day .. Between dinner driving everyone around etc. I got her for like 5 min. I missed her and I saw us just growing apart ... But what could we do ... Ever forward ... Keep the kids learning keep working hard around the home ... If she was having to work late then the kids and I would work hard too. I never went out or had friends how would that be fair with her working so hard I told myself.

So fast forward back ... here we were back in that parking lot and I hear the words for the first time in my 18 years with this girl.

... "I made a mistake"

I don't have to go into details about how those words can hit you like a freight train but there it was ... It was true ... Her affair with her boss apparently lasted for about a year and a half (gulp).

My past gone. Destroyed. Abolished.

We went through the tears and anguish and my wife begged for my forgiveness. It was 15 years ago and we have two children I told her and myself that I would, this once, forgive her (or at least try) but she had to tell me everything I needed to know (btw - ignorance is bliss let me tell you - some details she told me I could have lived without).

My wife told me awful details but on her knees, crying and swearing on our daughters' eyes, that that was it and she was young and stupid and has been faithful since.

The nightmares began ... The relentless movie and the triggers kicked in everywhere. The sickness, the confusion, ... Even today it all seems unreal to me as I write this.

I fight through it. I'm not sleeping or eating much at this point but I continue the struggle and three months later things are still bad for me but my wife seems to love me so much more than I am used to. I actually get to have sex now and she kisses me. Wow .. This is new. But this is scary in so many ways ... Is this the attention that HE got!! ... I never had this! Omg!

Anyways .... Ever forward ... One day about a month into my healing, I approach my wife in the kitchen and preform a pop quiz test that she, or really I for that matter, knew was coming...

I looked at her and calmly said "I just learned about you and Dan"
It was a total bluff.

Dan was basically the only person I know here in TN. He was a friend of our family that lived just down the road .. He was an unemployed drunk but my wife and his got along.

Reaching for my toast expecting to perhaps get a small chuckle out of my wife, instead that freight train Came back with a few of his buddies to run me over again.

"it was only once ! And we didn't do much" she says to me as the toast drops to the floor.

The darkness overwhelms me .... Don't get off this ride til it comes to a complete stop!

At this point I reach out and tell my children because now they have been cheated on too and they deserved to know of the upcoming turn of events their world was about to take. Not really knowing myself where that turn was to lead .. But I was sure it was not going to be good.

I was a great father. My children are brilliant and loving and I protected them from everything ... I just never saw this knife in the back coming and I feared for a moment that I may not make it through this for them.

Pause in story: I want to apply for the record here ... I went 6 months with less than 1 hour of sleep a day and dropped 55lbs from 200 to 145 in the same time ... Little but of a shock to the whole system I guess.

Here was her story ... She told me it was nothing: Dan was over for a Christmas gathering or just for a drink - he was a loser unemployed alcoholic btw. Apparently my wife was at the sink rinsing a glass and Dan came up and grabbed her [censored] (outside clothes) and she reached around "a reaction she called it" and brushed her hand across his penis (again on the outside of clothes).

I made her reenact the crime to show me how far past the line she crossed with Dan and she brought me to the kitchen with tears in her eyes again and showed me how it was just more or less a brushing of genitals.

How sickening to add this to my movie collection that was already filled with my wife in parking lots, hotels and bathrooms having sex with her slimy married boss (who is by no means a looker).

At least this new info was not quite as graphic ... To deal with this small hiccup is easy, I only have to never have any friends again if I want to keep my wife (or at least limit myself to friends with leprosy).

Ok ... My mind gets to add this to the wonderful mix ... Drinks involved ... Ok ...if I can do this boss thing ... I'll deal with Dan later and it should be cakewalk. Ever forward into my spiraling world of devastation.

I think about a week passed .. I have bruises and scars from my physical attacks on myself ... Late night and early morning head smashing sessions.

My daughter and I are on the trampoline sitting looking at the sky and my wife comes to us crying to tell me of another man she was with back in the old boss screwing days. Something that has been weighing heavily on her chest and she "had to come clean" again. She says she went to a bar on one her business trips and was necking with him as he told her sad stories of his sick child.

My daughter of 11 years who has never in her life before this year cried or had reason to .. Held me and we cried together for hours ... We are still crying today. My poor poor children.

I need help here maybe. Hmmm..I talk to no one ... Who can I talk to ... I have only myself ... I must get strong.

I start working out relentlessly. I am lean at this time ... Bordering on anorexic. Get strong I tell myself. Strong on the outside makes you strong on the inside.

I am a vegan now and back up to 160 in the best shape of my life. I can do 75 good pushups in a row, 17 chin ups, and can run for miles without tiring. I have tried meditation, I have tried writing, I have given up drinking and have tried to improve myself in every way (not that I was a bad guy in the first place - just a reaction I suppose).

My wife tells me she needed to let me know that so she was totally transparent (we both have read a lot and studied our situation to find a way to fix me or the marriage or whatever it was that needed to be fixed.

It's blurry a bit but basically more pain and anguish for me over then next month or two ... ho hum. Ever forward ... Where has the last 4 months gone? Where am I? Who am I? Who is this woman? Some of you reading understand all this ... No need to elaborate.

In one of my outbursts about the whole Dan thing ... I pick up the phone and tell her I am calling him ... I need to know that you are being honest. I tell her simply that if her story does not match that of dans that i have to leave.

Oh btw ... Of course I called the old bosses wife to make sure he didn't walk away smelling like roses (or smelling like my wife). There is currently a restraining order in place so I guess he is a bit scared ... Serves him right ... Back to the story ... It starts to get good here .....(gotta skip some of the devastating events for my next writing sessions).

So as the phone goes to my ear and my finger to the button ....

How was I to know that freight trains could fly?

"wait" she say frown

The 2nd base action by the kitchen sink that she reenacted for me and that haunted me for weeks was not even real! She made up a movie just for me!
The only thing being true was it started in the kitchen.

Apparently what really happened was: I was sitting beside my wife as my friend and neighbor dan gently slid his hand down my wife's pajama pants as I was not looking (right beside me) from behind.

Instead of a polite slap to the face my wife and this man go upstairs where she says all that happened was he touched her again down the pants and she put her hand down his pants and stroked him a bit. ... She tells me the kitchen story was made up because basically she did not have intercourse with him so it was just the same thing ... A reaction she calls it. She swears that nothing else ever happened and the two of them never spoke of it even though we still saw them.

Knowing what she was capable of and going so far to cross that line, I can believe or understand why they would stop there. She tells me he was hard and yet he did not pursue. So hard to believe .. Yet again I feel compelled to believe her. (yup I must have gone off the deep end).

It's not even that, it's the lies as some of you know.

Ever forward...

Later that week she cancels our date night because her new boss asked her to come out with him on a dinner interview.

I told her she has to leave work if there is to be any hope ... Which is still to be determined. She writes a letter to her work telling the story and asking for help and they let her go.

We are now unemployed and crazy.
I better quickly switch from homeschooling dad who volunteers time at the local library teaching chess with the kids to now figuring out a way to keep everyone alive before they take our home now.

No problem ... Will just add this to my to do list.

I quickly run and rent myself an apartment and move away leaving all possessions behind and spent a few nights alone curled up in a corner of a dark cold and storage apartment ... My home? Where are my kids? Where is my wife? Wtf just happened?

She begs me to stay / come back. She tells me she loves me. She tells me she is so sorry. She looks so sad. I feel so sad for her.
I come home (omg how much of our savings were blown in that little escapade?)

she treats me like a god now and tries so hard.
I truly believe she is sorry for her choices.
I think she loves me what what is love
She never kissed me before like this or at all really ....
It is wonderful ... But wait .... Those guys were getting this ??

What number does this put me in the hierarchy ? Somewhere just under the local drunk I think ..... I went from number 1 to number 4 ... Just shy of any medals .. Par for my course.

The roller coaster has yet to stop but at times it slows down a bit now. My wife and I have found that magical place that some find where the love is overwhelming and although the recipe was evil ... The results may well be worth it.

We lose sight of that love sometimes but maybe it really is out there or maybe it is just not meant to be - no matter - all is lost for me no matter now.

We have both learned so much about ourselves. Maybe it could work still. Then I write this and as I read it, I think to myself, what the he'll am I still doing here.

I have explored all aspects of anger - they all lead nowhere good.
I do not like the angry me. I never met him before but let me tell you he is a [censored]. The internal battles ... Both mental and physical as he hits me in the face and rarely holds back.

(please note that my rage and torment although sometimes out of my control, is always directed at inflicting pain on myself only ... Expect for those evil words that spew from my mouth every once in a while when my walls leak a bit. Those words I know hurt my kids and each day I vow not to let 'banner' out to vent his rage (Banner is the name I gave to my new split personality - he's the angry elf in me - banner like David banner from hulk you know).

The kids don't like it when banner smashes things (like my guitar the other day - doh! Note to self ... Stop breaking stuff ... Especially stuff you like.)

Not sure where to go from here in my story .. Everyone will be waking up soon and I will go downstairs to look for some jobs (got the foreclosure notice so I better learn quickly to focus here .. Time is slipping away..wake up me).

I thought of running away and becoming a superhero and even made myself a website (a bit dark and gloomy but at least it's an option for me) - **edit** I think it turned out pretty good.

My thought this morning ... Let's get through the day ... Keep sorting the thoughts .. Try to show only love for the sake of the kids and everyone here.

I don't know what to do but i realize in this moment i still have time to think I can always decide tomorrow or in 19 more years ....

19years . Kids . Love. What a ride.

A bad year.
Gunna go run a quick mile before it all starts again. The next showing of my movie starts in 30 sec. God I hate these reruns.

Well met all ... My name was Marty
This is my first post.

ps I sometimes feel ripped off that she got to have so much sex while I got none and I did turn it away when presented to me on numerous occasions in life. These thoughts were never here before. I'm 43 years old and I'm just starting to learn about how fun this sex stuff can be. Hmmm..is it a trap?
Is she just having sex now as a way to keep me? She says the sex we have now is the best in her life ... And that I look better than ever etc .. It's the best sex I ever had too considering it's almost the only sex I've had haha. Is it a trap? I can honestly say one can never know ... But should i care ... I love this girl ... But she hurt me so badly ...

Maybe the superhero route would be the best ....
Or maybe ...

Why I write this .. who knows ... i know no one can tell me what the right thing is to do ... but i welcome any comments or suggestions - just in case I missed something in my journey and/or just to have something to read in the wee hours of the night.

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**edit**

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Hi ThePunisher, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here. Most marriages do not recover from an affair unless they follow a very narrow path. That is what Marriage Builders helps us with. The plan for recovery after an affair involves a) affair proofing the marriage and b) restoring the romantic love in the marriage. Here are some good links:

How to Survive Infidelity

and Dr Harley's book: Surviving An Affair


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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DO NOT continue to add and/or replace links that have been removed by the moderators.

Continuing to do so will cost you the priviledge of posting on our forums!!

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Welcome to Marriagebuilders.

I am very sorry to hear about your burden. It is an exceptionally heavy one. The lies are the real poison arrows and you've had 20 years of them.

Your only shot here is to get at the honesty. Get the facts and draw up a plan.

You can't base your future on feelings alone. Of course you love her. You aren't a robot. But you need to decide whether it is safe to do so.

I would (without telling her just yet) find out who does reliable polygraphs in your area. We can then guide you as to what to do with that resource.

Her affairs need to be exposed far and wide. Good job telling the children. They now they can trust you for the truth at least.

And bravo for warning the poor BW.

Who else knows and who is supporting you?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I have no one to talk to. I am in a foreign country far from any family and have no friends here - just my kids and I (who have been the glue - I give them an A++ on social studies this year !

Its funny I read this stuff now and am amazed with how much stuff I came up with myself that is the same as suggested here. I just looked up a polygraph website yesterday and told her I want her to take one. I was just going to bluff and drive out there (cant really afford one) ... but sure - any tips if I do go through with it are appreciated -- i already have a short list of questions I recently asked her (for the 100th time probably) and got her answers ... those questions that just dont sit right with me with her story ...


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Family should be exposed to even if they are far away.

Would your parents or hers call her up? Do they know? Grandparents? Siblings?

Whose opinion does she value? Who does she have besides you?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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TP, we have had amazingly good results with polygraphs. Most of the confessions come BEFORE the actual test. The BS sets up the appointment and then 2 days before the appt tells the WS and hands him/her a list of questions. Give her one last chance to come clean before the test but make it clear that the marriage is not going forward unless they pass the test. They typically sing like a canary!!

It goes like this:

1. BS informs WS of the test and hands her a list of 20 questions that must be answered before the test

2. WS initially agrees to take the test trying to look innocent

3. shortly thereafter the WS comes back with a "reason" why he can't take the test, "can't afford it," "you will never trust me," "polygraphs are unreliable"

4. when the BS won't fall for it, the WS gets mad and threatens divorce. "If we have to go to these lengths I would rather get a divorce!!"

5. when none of the tactics work, the WS attempts to answer the questions honestly. sometimes they answer honestly and other times they will answer a FEW questions honestly in the hopes that will get the BS to cancel the polygraph

6. On the way to the appt, the WS usually confesses a few more things

7. most do pass the test because by the time they get there everything is confessed


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Brilliant post Mel

That's exactly how it usually goes down, TP. So prepare for the trickle truth.

Dishonesty is a long term habit for her and you will need to be resolute in order to break it.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
TP, we have had amazingly good results with polygraphs. Most of the confessions come BEFORE the actual test. The BS sets up the appointment and then 2 days before the appt tells the WS and hands him/her a list of questions. Give her one last chance to come clean before the test but make it clear that the marriage is not going forward unless they pass the test. They typically sing like a canary!!

It goes like this:

1. BS informs WS of the test and hands her a list of 20 questions that must be answered before the test

2. WS initially agrees to take the test trying to look innocent

3. shortly thereafter the WS comes back with a "reason" why he can't take the test, "can't afford it," "you will never trust me," "polygraphs are unreliable"

4. when the BS won't fall for it, the WS gets mad and threatens divorce. "If we have to go to these lengths I would rather get a divorce!!"

5. when none of the tactics work, the WS attempts to answer the questions honestly. sometimes they answer honestly and other times they will answer a FEW questions honestly in the hopes that will get the BS to cancel the polygraph

6. On the way to the appt, the WS usually confesses a few more things

7. most do pass the test because by the time they get there everything is confessed
In addition to these excellent tips here is a thread on polygraphs with questions that posters have used.

Polygraph Testing


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Oh as for WHO knows ... everyone ... Banner made sure of that.
Problem is all her 4 siblings cheated on their spouses too and just tell her to get out. My family is more messed up than hers. So I just meant I have no one to talk too.

It certainly doesnt help my self esteem when you try to take somone back and have to walk around knowing other people know. Makes me feel ... well ... lets just say there are some pretty big internal battles going on there.

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I think I believe her - she has stuck through alot these last 10 months - but maybe she just has no better option

(I don't believe that even as I type it - I think she has finally seen what is at stake and hates herself for it - truely).

I ask myself now a bit - do i even want to hear more if there is more ? What will change - its awful enough as it is ... I will be in the same spot with just more horror ...

this is where I get stuck perhaps ... i want and need the honesty but I can understand at this point if there is more how she would fight tooth and nail NOT to tell me because she knows it will be over ?!? Perhaps ???

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TP,

One approach to the polygraph someone mentioned on MB was to make a list of questions, review them with your WW, then the only question the polygraph operator asks is did you answer the questions on the sheet honestly.

If there is more your WW is hiding it needs to come out, she will live in fear if it does not.

She never kissed me before like this or at all really

Her guilt for all these years kept her from doing so, more so than no sex the no/barely kissing is really painful, it's the same with my W for 20+ years. Once some women think of themselves as dirty it inhibits them from enjoying sex. I don't understand how women can turn it off for so long.

It is frustrating to think of all the effort I went to through the years to make her happy and stimulated, never realizing the nature of the demon I was fighting. The wasted years do make you want to throw it away, but those same years make you want to rebuilt too.

Be glad you got the dirty details, you can eventually come to terms with them, you won't have to deal with your imagination going wild.

You need to identify those people in your lives who are enemies of your marriage or of marriage in general

Keep posting here to vent, there is often no one for men to speak to, since it is just so stigmatizing for men to be cheated on.

Do the OMs have a facebook page, that may be a good place to start exposure. Does the OM still work for the same company you can threaten a lawsuit.

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Gamma; 12/28/12 07:56 PM.
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You don't necessarily need graphic details but you do need the 'who, what, when and where'

You need to eliminate the conditions which made each affair possible. Therefore you need to know what they were.

If she has had another hidden A with a bartender, the bar needs to be off limits. Kwim?

Last edited by indiegirl; 12/28/12 08:16 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by ThePunisher
I ask myself now a bit - do i even want to hear more if there is more ? What will change - its awful enough as it is ... I will be in the same spot with just more horror ...

If there are basic facts she has withheld, yes, you do want to know. And let me tell you why. If she doesn't tell you, you will wonder...........and wonder....and wonder. For the next 30 years. And for the next 30 years your resentment will grow and grow because you KNOW she is still lying. You KNOW she still has secrets with the OM to which you are not privy.

If that is the case, you can get the truth out NOW or you can get it out in 30 years. The sooner you get it out, the sooner you can move forward. But, you will not move forward until you have the facts.

Here is what it takes to recover from an affair:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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wow...i didnt expect it to work that well.
she finally believed we were going ...
omg .. i wish i didn't hear ..
ignorance is bliss ...

she knew the steps .. she knew the term transparancy .. wtf is she doing .. she is so sad now ... begging .. again ...

Joined: Sep 2008
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S
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Originally Posted by ThePunisher
wow...i didnt expect it to work that well.
she finally believed we were going ...
omg .. i wish i didn't hear ..
You didn't expect WHAT to work that well?

She finally believed you were going...where?

Your post is difficult to understand.



BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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J
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J
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Did you pretend you were taking her to a polygraph and then she disclosed more recent infidelity?

Joined: Dec 2012
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T
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T
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Exactly. Told her about the list of 20 questions.
She says she is sick ... Can't explain the lies
Omg I wish I didn't ask .... But I had to know. And I was right again about her hiding something .... I hate being right ... Not a good day for the punisher ... Here we go again ... The vase shattered into millions of pieces ... To be reconstructed yet again !?!

Joined: Jun 2008
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K
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A real poly is still on of course right?


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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