Hey everyone, I am a newby here. Glad to have found this place.

I will try to make my story as short as possible. I am 49, my wife is 45, we married very young, she 17 and me 20. My Dday was Aug 26th, 2009. My wife had 5 EA's that 'evolved' into 5 PA's. These A's occured during a relatively short period 21 years ago, end of 1987 to 1988 or so? I had suspected 2 A's but she denied them back then, and she denied them everytime I've brought them up over the years, even up to just prior to Dday.

Things didn't add up but she ALWAYS denied anything happened, they were 'just friends'. So I would back off, and try and believe her. She is my wife, she can't lie to me like that, and I KNOW she wouldn't have sex with other men...not my wife.

Starting around 94 until a few years ago, I so wanted to revenge sex my wife. I had made a few friends on the internet and fully intended to make my wife feel what I did. Or should I say, what I have always suspected her of doing. I never pulled the trigger, nor did I ever meet the women in real life. My EA's always came open and I would admit to them, and say, 'well at least I didn't screw them, like what you did'...she would, once again, deny that she did anything with the guys...just friends. So I would believe her, and I would feel so terrible about doing what I did, especially since she didn't screw those guys, (obviously I was wrong). So when the truth came out, Dday, I so [censored] wished I had met those women and screwed them...!! I know those EAs were wrong and are devastating. Would I have done them had I not suspected my wife of having sexual affairs? I think I would not, but as her A's were always in my mind, giving me justification to try other women. I know two wrongs do not make a right, but it does make us even, or in my case, 5 wrongs.

I was on Facebook in Aug, on a friends page. That's when I saw one of the guys I thought my wife 'slept' with. I hit him up to be 'friends'. It's a looong story, but I was in the military then, and it turned out we were both in the same unit, although they both say they didn't know until later. So thats how I knew the guy, but he was in another area and I rarely saw him, but everytime I wanted to break his face, even though they both denied anything happened, they were 'just friends'...!!!

But I digress, he agress on FB to be 'friends' and I causually talked to him, like life was ok, etc. I then asked about my wife and him and if they did sleep together. I said it was a long time ago, I am past it bothering me. He admitted it..!!! His words were, 'yes we did sleep together'....my whole world came crumbling down. I was in shock...!!

I printed up the email and I carried it for a few days, walking around in shock. My wife knew something was wrong, but thought it was just because of an upcomine eye doc appt. I finally found the right time to show her the email. At first she said, 'who is this from' and I said, who do you think? She finally relented and admitted to it. Plus there was another guy I suspected and she admitted to him too.

For the next few days it was like I was in a nuke blast zone...I was dazed. Then out of the blue she admitted to 3 more affairs during that same time period..!

She had five sexual affairs. I am not sure how many times with each guy as they were not ONS. There is another problem as one of our daughters was concieved in the same house that her A's occured. She said she never brought them home, but it was during that time. She had with held from me for many months and it is VERY close in time to when our youngest daughter was conceived...I can't account for a few months yet, so that is a problem obviously. Oh yea, plus she said they ALWAYS used condoms, (give me a barf bag).

So that is my story, as short as I could make it. I have been to IC. I started about 2 weeks after Dday. I've never been to IC before then. I cried, every single day, for 2 months. I thought I was in depression and had thoughts of hurting myself. I've had about 15 therapy sessions and she has helped me out a great deal. I've discovered things about myself that I did not know.

We have had 2 MC sessions. They were not that great. In both sessions the therapist has only gone over my wifes feelings back then and even tried to say to me, 'now do you see why your wife would be in such an emotional state that her having those A's were her way of delaing with it'?...I said, what? Are you kidding me? I will own 50% of our marital problems, but she has to own 100% of her decision to screw those five guys. Yes I did contribute to her emotional state, no problem, but I had NOTHING to do with her choice in the way she handled it.

It wasn't great for me then either. She had, and still does, have anger issues. She yells and screams all the time. Her communciation skills lack, big time. I, however, did not go out and screw 5 women. I have never had sex with anyone other than my wife since we married in July 1980.

I am happy with my therapist in IC, but not MC.

We are working towards R, I think. I can explain where we are right now, after you guys get to know my background.

Are you not happy this is the short version?

Hi codtej:
So sorry you are here, you are in the right place. Read everything you can on this web site. So much information that can help you and point you in the right direction. the harleys do have something called marriage coaching....check into that if finances allow and you are so unhappy with MC.

Is your wife willing for recovery? Are you sure these affairs all happened in that time span and were not ongoing through out the years and why that time frame? Was something going on during that time with her, you, your marriage.

After 21 years, what would cause you to want to know the truth now? Has something new happened?

Recovery as you will see and as someone rights on their tag line"is not for wimps", but it is possible. Hang in there, the vets will be on shortly and help you so much more than me

so sorry you are here.

Hi codtej,

I'm sorry you have to be here, but welcome. I've only been here a few days, but I've found the people here wonderfully supportive and caring. I've been told the weekends are quite slow, you may start getting more responses starting tomorrow.

One thing I find terrific, but sometimes confusing, is the difference of opinion many respondents have. This is terrific, because it makes me look at myself, my motives, my wishes and my hopes ever so much more closely.

Some of the people with whom I've interacted have expressed their doubts that my M should be saved. Others have given me detailed instructions on what I should do and say. This is a painful situation in which we find ourselves and the comfort offered here is beyond my ability to express.

You say your WW's As were 21 years ago. What has it been like since? Do you have any children? From your story, it seems as though you have gone through 21 years with always some doubt and uncertainty. Why is that? What caused it?

In my case, I never once thought my WW would have an A. So when DDay occurred, I was blind-sided. You say you suspected 2 A's. What made you suspect them? Did your W leave any hints or clues?

I know I don't have any answers for you. But I'm reaching out the hand of welcome because I know the pain you're feeling. The experienced veterans will reply in due time, and I hope you can find the way to R.

Best wishes.

Welcome codtej.

Honestly, I would ask for a polygraph just so I could FINALLY have the truth of my life. Who knows what else she is hiding. That way at least you know what you are facing and what you need to R from.

Have you at all read any of the articles on this site by the good Dr.? Have you read about ENs(emotional needs) and LBs(love busters)?

Tell us what your WW has been doing to restore your trust and to ease your pain since dday? Is she remorseful?

Living with lies for 21 years would be very difficult to overcome, but it is possible. What has your M been like?

I am familiar with your story. So sad to hear you struggling with it. Is your wife still on vacation? How have your communications with her been? I still don't see how she could leave on vacation with you going through this. Maybe you needed the time alone. It must gall you that she did that and now there are no consequences (if you stay married, I am sure she feels like she dodged a bullet). You must be an exceptional man to be able to deal with this and still want to keep her.

Is she on vacation alone...and are you sure she is alone?
I do think you are an exceptional man too, however I too would take H back after all he did to me and sometimes I wonder if I have a low self esteem and little self love for even thinking about it...after all the torture he put me thru!
blessing

codtej, I'm so sorry for your pain. It's new and it's raw. Most of us here remember it well. Your situation has a twist, though. Your wife's affairs occurred more than 20 years ago, but for you, they have just become reality, like they just happened. You're questioning her and your entire marriage, wondering who your wife really is, and how she could do all those things, and lie about them for so many years... Serious concerns.

You make no mention of how you wife is behaving. Has she been remorseful? I'm guessing, not too much. See, she's had 20+ years to process it all. It's old news to her. Does she see your pain? Regret what she did? Sounds like, with the help of your MC, she's justifying what she did, but you are correct that she is 100% responsible for her choices.
Was she "unhappy?" Of course she was unhappy. Odds are you were too, and you were just as vulnerable. But she chose to drop her boundaries (assuming she had any to begin with), and break the most important promise she'd ever made to anyone. She probably doesn't see any of this the way you do. She's spent years justifying herself and blaming you for her choices. I know it's cold comfort, but ALL waywards do this. Doesn't mean she will never see it differently. It won't likely be tomorrow, though...

All the blaming and justification will have to stop if you are ever to recover from this. But first, you have to decide whether you want to try. I'm guessing you do, or you wouldn't be here, so I will offer our standard advice.

1. Drop the useless MC and call the MB counseling center. They thoroughly understand the dynamics of cheating, and more importantly, what the betrayed spouse must do to put things back together. The MB process is simple, but not easy. If your wife is on board, it will be a little easier on you, but will still take time--think years, not months.

2. It is imperative that you determine whether your wife is currently having an affair, emotional or physical. Snoop. Plenty of advice here on how to do that. You cannot proceed till you know the truth about what's going on NOW. If you learn that she is involved with someone else right now, there are specific steps you can take to break up the affair. Only once an affair is truly over can recovery begin.

3. Read all the articles linked to the home page, and order the books Surviving An Affair, His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters. The whole MB program is contained in them, and the plan offers your best shot for working through this into a mutully loving marriage. Your wife may not agree to go through them with you, but read them yourself, even if she won't.
You will discover what you did/didn't do along the way that contributed to her vulnerability. You must identify those things, and remedy them. When you become the man she fell in love with before you married, she can fall in love with you again.

You may question why YOU need to make changes when it was your wife who shattered your marriage and your world. The simple answer is that you are the better person for the job right now. She may still be in a wayward mindset, even if she is not actively cheating on you. You are motivated by your new awareness. And by your pain, which is an amazing motivator.

Besides, you're here--she isn't.

I agree with MichelleG above--you need to know everything about your wife's past, and you most certainly need to know whether you are your daughter's father. Your wife needs to understand that this is about YOUR life, not just hers. Her dishonesty has badly skewed the balance of power in your marriage, and that needs to be put right. Your lives must be an open book to each other...no secrets, no more surprises. Hurts and resentments have to be aired and resolved. There can be no love, and no real marriage, without honesty. Not negotiable. This will likely be a big challenge for your wife, so be patient. The habits of a lifetime don't change overnight, even once she sees the need to change them. And we don't even know if she sees any reason to change herself yet. This is where talking to Steve Harley or Jennifer Harley at the MB counseling center can be very, very beneficial. They institute a plan based on where you are right now. Not cheap, but WAY less expensive than divorce. Last I heard, it was $195/hour, but the offer lower rates for booking multiple appointments (5, I think). Talking to Steve made so much difference for us...I'm not sure we'd have made it through the period right after D-Day if it hadn't been for his coaching.

That's just a start, but you have much reading and information to absorb.

While you go through this painful part of the rollercoaster ride, take care of yourself. Eat properly, distract youself with exercise or other healthy pursuits, and see your doctor if you are anxiety ridden and can't sleep, or if you suspect your are in the grip of depression. Many, many of us here can attest to the benefit of a stint of anti-dpressants and/or anti-anxiety meds.

And be assured that it IS possible to work through this horror and come out way better on the other side, despite how it seems to you now. Lots of us here have experienced that miracle, and most of us attribute it to following the MB plan.

Godspeed.

Right Here Waiting

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. I didn't want to put too much in my first post, so I left things out.

My wife is fully remorseful but does push back at times, giving me the, 'it happened 21 years ago' line. We had another heart to heart a bit ago, and she is supposedly going to try harder....whoopie...!! lol.

The time frame was at a particularly bad time in our early marriage. She was hanging out with a bad crowd, it seems. Lots of willing male 'friends' around her, at least 5 that she has admitted to. Why she started and stopped within about 6 months or so I do not know, still. I am not sure if it was even 6 months, she still is not transparent, fully.

I had always wanted to know over the years, as I said. I would bring it up to her and she always denied it. I just happened to stumble upon one of the suspected guys on facebook, so the jig was up at that point. She actually thinks me confronting her about it, then her finally fessing up, was her coming forward to me about the A's....!

We have three grown kids, youngest is 20. They know about the A's.

Our marriage has been ok since Dday. I mean we have had some good arguments and such, but nothing too bad. In fact this next July will be our 30th anniversary, (if we make it to then), so we are in the 'mature' part of our marriage. We had been doing very well over the past several years. It was fine until Dday that is.

'Ouch', hey nice to see you over here. No she got back Nov 3rd. from vacation. Believe me, it did bug the crap out of me that she didn't even PRETEND to make me seem like I was more important than her vacation. In fact we just talked about that today too. She said she was sorry and doesn't understand why she didn't think about changing her vacation. That really hurt me badly, to be honest.

As I am 3 months out of Dday, I am still in a lot of pain, I cry at different times, I feel a whole different range of emotions, varying throughout the day. My wife so wants this to be over, she thinks I should have moved forward by now. She is supportive, but not as much as I'd like, or as much as I need. She doesn't seem to understand this either.

'RTW', and others, again thanks for the advise and suggested reading. I will for sure check into them all.

Have you asked her to fill out the Love Buster questionnaire?

That should be your first step.

3 mnonths out after 5 guys and she wants this to be over? Wow, just wow. Doesn't she do any reading on this subject. She isbeingincredibly insensitive. How long has she been this self absorbed?

You have seen some remorse, from what you say, but there is still a big problem if you're getting the "it was 21 years ago...get over it already!" stuff.

The serious problem of her independent behavior remains. Must've been really tough to watch her head out on her "vacation" so soon after breaking your world into pieces. If you are not more important than her vacation, you have a loooong way to go to recovery from this bombshell. Please talk to Steve. Your wife probably needs to hear what he has to say more than you do, but he can help you too.

And if she thinks that "admitting it" after you confronted her clears her of further obligation, well...hoo boy. She has no idea what she's done to you. That she expects you to "move forward" shows a total cluelessness of the devastation you have experienced. No, you cannot "move forward" until certain steps are taken. There's transparency, for one. And radical honesty, for another. Read and learn. I sincerely hope you can achieve her cooperation on this, as well as her commitment to the extraordinary precautions she must take to protect you from her (hopefully former) tendencies. It doesn't sound at all as if she understands what she has done to you and to the marriage, so the threat remains.

I really understand how you feel--my FWH's affair was 37 years into our marriage. It devastated me, and our grown children. It has taken the better part of 3 years for me to heal from the trauma you are suffering now. It is not something anyone can "get over" quickly. It is the most serious wound a mate can inflict, however much they want to minimize the impact and avoid the consequences. I hope your wife will come to understand this, and climb on board the real recovery train. I really hope she is big enough to do the work.

Blessings on your efforts.

RHW

It's good your grown children are aware of what's happened. How did they react? Are other family members/friends aware?

I second the suggestion for talking to the Harley's, more so for your WW.
She is far from realizing that it is her full time job to protect you and your M.
The Harley's can be the ones to educate her, since she will see you as trying to fix her.

Her independent vacation is a red flag. Leaving when she did, with you in turmoil, is cruel.

You should keep snooping to verify that there is no OP in the picture.
Her confessing to other A's may be a tactic to make you think that she is now
trustworthy, when she is in fact far from it, at this point.

I'm sorry that you are here.
It's good that your kids know, they can be a support to you.

Agreed. This, and the fact that your WW has basically lied to you for over 20 years suggests to me that you can't take anything she says at face value. You have to pay attention to what she does, and her behaviour suggests to me that's emotionally disconnected from you and still untrustworthy.

Codtej,

My time frame is about the same, 20+ years, with my Wifes' EA PA?

I've also found the OM on facebook, and hope I get some conformation positive or negative. Glad for you that you were able to get closure. The other avenue I will pursue is friends of myself and OM from that time period.

Did your Wifes description of the events which took place change over time? At first she "forgot" the entire episode, not sure how you forget telling someone that you have lost all feeling and attraction for them.

Were the OMs single or married?

NJ

I understand y'alls concern over the vacation, let me explain. My bigger concern is she didn't offer to postpone vacation until our marriage was in better shape.

This was a long planned vacation, with two of her sisters, back home to the country she was born. She had last went back 10 years ago and during that time she had her mother and brother pass and she didn't go back. There were no worries about her going with someone one than her sisters. But you guys are right, and trust me, I have brought it up to her even right before she left, how can ANYTHING be more important than our marriage? Especially the emotional state I was in. I was a total train wreck, emotionally shot. I appreciate all of your concerns and they are well based and understood.

'newjersey'...yea FB, greaaaat. When I confronted OM I was careful as I didn't want to paint a rosy picture of my current marital situation or he may not have wanted to cause new damage. So I sorta pretended that we were on the rocks, not doing well, etc. I acted kinda not caring about her [censored] around, and I was just trying to finally bury the whole thing, as I couldn't now, as I didn't know the truth.

He couldn't believe I already didn't know..that she never said anything to me about it. Then I read the words, 'yea we slept together'...!! Those words are FOREVER burned into my brain...forever. He kept saying how sorry he was, etc...We even talked on the phone as I wanted to hear what he had to say, as I figured he would tell me stuff differently than my wife, and I was right. I look at it like the first time I asked him, directly, if he [censored] my wife, he said yes. My wife lied to me for 21 years when asked the same question. He told me some things that my wife denies but I know he has no reason to make the stories up.

Shortly after that I un-friened him on FB and have no reason to talk to him again. The other 4 guys I know very little about, other than they [censored] my wife several times...nice.

The description of events and details do change, from day to day. I have an EXCELLENT memory and forget NOTHING she tells me. So when a red flag pops up I call her on it.

The OM were all single and they knew she was married, but in need of a 'friend'...or in her case, 5 friends.

Sucks.

To follow up, I will check into the Harleys and educating my wife...I didn't think about her seeing me as trying to 'fix' her, good point.

Also, someone asked about IC/MC....we've done two M/C's. I have not had an IC in a few weeks, and I miss it, to be honest.

My mom and one sister know of what happened, as well as my three 'grown up' daughters. On her side I think two of her sisters know. It was sick as I was talking to one of her sisters on the phone, post Dday. She was sticking up for her sister, and she had the 'balls' to say, 'you should just move forward as it was a long time ago and it was a 'white lie'....NO KIDDING, she tells me this. She was not born in the USA but speaks english well enough to know what a white lie is, and 21 years of hiding 5 sexual affairs AINT a white lie.

I wouldn't believe her when she says they always used condoms. My H said the same thing. Only to soften the blow. Truth came out when I polygraphed him.

If you have to know, then do a DNA test, but after raising the child as your own for this long would you really even want to know if she wasn't yours? That's a tough one.

I would definitely polygraph her. Of course it's no big deal to her, for her it's over and done with. She's already dealt with it and moved on. She needs to realize that this is all brand new to you.

My H had 4 ONS over 2 years ago, and I just found out about them in May. It's extremely hard. It doesn't matter how long ago it was, she still betrayed your trust, and broke vows.

Give yourself time to digest everything, and NEVER feel bad about getting upset about this. When it happened is irrelevant. It happened. That's all that matters.

So sorry.

Yea the condom thing really bugs me and is a big trigger. When I see a condom commercial or reference on a tv show it gets me down.

I do find it hard to believe she slept with five guys, multiple times, and they used a condom every time. I am gullible, but even I am not that stupid. I think if she admitted to not using a condom every time and with my concerns about one of my daughters being mine, biologically, I would have even a more legit reason to worry, (as if I needed another).

I do understand me finding out that I am not the biological father would not change my relationship with my daughter in the least, and she would NEVER know the results of a DNA test.

She's quite likely lying. Do the DNA test, or it will bug you forever.

Codtej,

Thanks that was one of the approaches I was considering.

and she would NEVER know the results of a DNA test

I have a biased opinion on that one since I am an OC, I think your daughter needs to know the truth of her origins too. If it is true then your Wife has lied horribly to her daughter as well. I'm glad I know the truth about my parentage in spite of how ugly it is.

It is not an easy decision however, just this weekend I was speaking with a girl who is likely my half-sister and I didn't say anything, sucks no good choices.

NJ